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DOCUMENTS 
PiPT. 


I 


DEBATES 


PEOCEEDINaS 


OF  THE 


CONSTITUTIONAL  CONVENTION 


FOB   THE 


TERRITORY  OF  MINiNESOTA, 


n 


TO  FORM  A  STATE  CONSTITUTION  PREPARATORY  TO  ITS  ADMISSION  INTO 
-  THE  UNION  AS  A  STATE. 


X.  F.  ANDREWS,  Official  Reporter  to  the  Conventioa. 


SAINT  PAUL: 
GEORGE    W.   MOORE,   PRINTER. 

JONNESOTIAN   OFFICE. 
1858. 


Jf<6>  /3  6- 
/I2. 


OEpr.  • 


THE  ENABLING  ACT. 


An  Act  to  Authokize  the  People  of  Min- 
nesota TO  FORM  A  Constitution  and  State 
Government,  Pbepakatory  to  their  Ad- 
mission into  the  Union  on  an  equal 
footing  with  the  Original  States. 
Be  it  enacted  hy  th^  Senate  and  Rouse  of 
Bepresentatives  of  the  United  States  of  Ameri- 
ca in  Congress  assembled:  That  the  inhabi- 
tants of  that  portion  of  the  Territory  of 
Minnesota  which  is  embraced  within  the  fol- 
lowing limits,  to  wit :  Beginning  at  the  point 
in  the  center  of  the  main  channel  of  the  Red 
River  of  the  North,  where  the  boundary  line 
between  the  United  States  and  the  British 
Possessions  crosses  the  same ;  thence  up  the 
main  channel  of  said  river  to  that  of  the  Bois 
des  Sioux  River ;  thence  up  the  main  channel 
of  said  river  to  L,ake  Travers ;  thence  up  the 
center  of  said  lake  to  the  southern  extremity 
thereof;  thence  in  a  direct  line  to  the  head  of 
Big  Stone  Lake ;  thence  through  its  center  to 
its  outlet ;  thence  by  a  due  south  line  to  the 
north  line  of  the  State  of  Iowa ;  thence  along 
the  northern  boundary  of  said  State  to  the 
main  channel  of  the  Mississippi  River;  thence 
up  the  main  channel  of  said  river,  and  follow- 
ing the  boundary  line  of  the  State  of  Wiscon- 
sin, until  the  same  intersects  the  Saint  Louis 
River ;  thence  down  the  said  river  to  and 
through  Lake  Superior  on  the  boundary  line 
of  Wisconsin  and  Michigan,  until  it  intersects 
the  dividing  line  between  the  United  States 
and  the  British  Possessions ;  thence  up  Pigeon 
River,  and  following  said  dividing  line  to  the 
place  of  beginning,  be,  and  they  are  hereby, 
authorized  to  form  for  themselves  a  Constitu- 
tion and  State  Government,  by  the  name  of 
the  State  of  Minnesota,  and  to  come  into  the 
Union  on  an  equal  footing  with  the  original 
States,  according  to  the  Federal  Constitutioa. 


Sec.  2.  A7id  he  it  further  enacted,  That 
the  State  of  Minnesota  shall  have  concurrent 
jurisdiction  on  the  Mississippi  and  all  other 
rivers  and  waters  bordering  on  the  said  State 
of  Minnesota,  so  far  as  the  same  shall  form  a 
common  boundary  to  said  State,  and  any 
State  or  States  now  or  hereafter  to  be  formed 
or  bounded  by  the  same ;  and  said  river  and 
waters  leading  into  the  same,  shall  be  common 
highways,  and  forever  free,  as  well  to  the  in- 
habitants of  said  State  as  to  all  other  citizens 
of  the  United  States,  without  any  tax,  duty, 
impost  or  toll  therefor. 

Sec.  3.  And  he  it  further  enacted.  That 
on  the  first  Monday  in  June  next,  the  legal 
voters  in  each  Representative  District,  then 
existing  within  the  limits  of  the  proposed 
State,  are  hereby  authorized  to  elect  two 
Delegates  for  each  Representative  to  which 
said  District  may  be  entitled  according  to  the 
apportionment  for  Representatives  to  the  Ter- 
ritorial Legislature,  which  election  for  Dele- 
gates shall  be  held  and  conducted,  and  the 
returns  made,  in  all  respects  in  conformity 
with  the  laws  of  said  Temtory  regulating  the 
election  of  Representatives;  and  the  Dele- 
gates so  elected  shall  assemble  at  the  Capitol 
of  said  Territory,  on  the  second  Monday  in 
July  next,  and  first  determine,  by  a  vote, 
whether  it  is  the  wish  of  the  people  of  the 
proposed  State  to  be  admitted  into  the  Union 
at  that  time ;  and  if  so,  shall  proceed  to  form 
a  Constitution,  and  take  all  necessary  steps 
for  the  establishment  of  a  State  Government, 
in  confora.ity  with  the  Federal  Constitution, 
subject  to  the  approval  and  ratification  of  the 
people  of  the  proposed  State. 

Sec.  4.  And  he  it  further  enacted.  That 
in  the  event  said  Convention  shall  decide  in 
favor  of  the  immediate  admission  of  the  pro- 


M12599 


EI^ABLING  ACT. 


posed  State  into  the  Union,  it  shall  be  the 
duty  of  the  United  States  Marshal  for  said 
Territory  to  proceed  to  take  a  census  or  enu- 
meration of  the  inhabitants  within  the  limits 
of  the  proposed  State,  under  such  rules  and 
regulations  as  shall  be  prescribed  by  the 
Secretary  of  the  Interior,  with  the  view  of 
ascertaining  the  number  of  Representatives 
to  which  said  State  may  be  entitled  in  the 
Congress  of  the  United  States ;  and  said  State 
shall  be  entitled  to  one  Representative  and 
such  additional  Representatives  as  the  popu- 
lation of  the  Sfate  shall,  according  to  the 
census,  show  it  would  be  entitled  to  according 
to  the  present  ratio  of  representation. 

Sec.  5.  And  be  it  further  enacted.  That 
the  following  propositions  be,  and  the  same 
are  hereby,  offered  to  the  said  Convention  of 
the  people  of  Minnesota  for  their  free  accept- 
ance or  rpjection,  which,  if  accepted  by  the 
Convention,  shall  be  obligatory  on  the  United 
States  and  upon  the  said  State  of  Minnesota, 
to  wit : 

First,  That  sections  numbered  sixteen  and 
thirty-six  in  every  township  of  public  lands 
in  said  State,  and  where  either  of  said  sec- 
tions, or  any  part  thereof,  has  been  sold  or 
otherwise  been  disposed  of,  other  lands,  equiv- 
alent thereto  and  as  contiguous  as  may  be, 
shall  be  granted  to  said  State  for  the  use  of 
schools. 

Second,  That  twenty-two  sections  of  land 
shall  be  set  apart  and  reserved  for  the  use 
and  support  of  a  State  University,  to  be  se- 
lected by  the  Governor  of  said  State,  subject 
to  the  approval  of  the  Commissioner  at  the 
General  Land  Office,  and  to  be  appropriated 
and  applied  in  such  manner  as  the  Legislature 
of  said  State  may  prescribe  for  the  purpose 
aforesaid,  but  for  no  other  purpose. 

Third,  That  ten  entire  sections  of  land,  to 
be  selected  by  the  Governor  of  said  State,  in 
legal  subdivisions,  shall  be  granted  to  said 


State  for  the  purpose  of  completing  the  public 
buildings,  or  for  the  erection  of  others  at  the 
seat  of  Government,  under  the  direction  of 
the  Legislature  thereof. 

Fourth,  That  all  salt  springs  within  said 
State,  not  exceeding  twelve  in  number,  with 
six  sections  of  land  adjoining,  or  as  contiguous 
as  may  be  to  each,  shall  be  granted  to  said 
State  for  its  use ;  the  same  to  be  selected  by 
the  Governor  thereof,  within  one  year  after 
the  admission  of  said  State,  and  when  so  se- 
lected, to  be  used  or  disposed  of  on  such 
terms,  conditions  and  regulations  as  the  Leg- 
islature shall  direct:  Provided,  That  no  salt 
spring  or  Jand,  the  right  whereof  is  now  vested 
in  any  individual  or  individuals,  or  which  may 
be  hereafter  confirmed  or  adjudged  to  any 
individuals,  shall,  by  this  article,  be  granted 
to  said  State. 

Fifth,  That  five  per  centum  of  the  net 
proceeds  of  sales  of  all  public  lands  lying 
within  said  State,  which  shall  be  sold  by  Con- 
gress after  the  admission  of  said  State  into  the 
Union,  after  deducting  all  the  expenses  inci- 
dent to  the  same,  shall  be  paid  to  said  State 
for  the  purpose  of  making  public  roads  and 
internal  improvements,  as  the  Legislature 
shall  direct ;  Provided,  the  foregoing  proposi- 
tions herein  offered  are  on  the  condition  that 
the  said  Convention  which  shall  form  the 
Constitution  of  said  State  shall  provide  by  a 
clause  in  said  Constitution,  or  an  ordinance, 
irrevocable  without  the  consent  of  the  United 
States,  that  said  State  shall  never  interfere 
with  the  primary  disposal  of  the  soil  within 
the  same,  by  the  United  States,  or  with  any 
regulations  Congress  may  find  necessary  for 
securing  the  title  in  said  soil  to  bonajide  pur- 
chasers thereof;  and  that  no  tax  shall  be 
imposed  on  lands  belonging  to  the  United 
States,  and  that  in  no  case  shall  non-resi- 
dent proprietors  be  taxed  higher  than  resi- 
dents. 


TEREITORIAL  ACT. 


An  Act  to  Provide  for  the  Payment  of  the 
Expenses  of  the  Convention  to  form  a 
Constitution  for  the  State  of  Minnesota, 
in    accordance   with   an  act   of   con- 
GRESS, APPROVED  March  3,  1857. 
Be  it  enacted  hy  the  Legislative  Asseiribly  of 
the  Tei-ritory  of  Minnesota : 
Section  1.     That  on  the  first  Monday  of 
June  next,  the  qualified  electors  of  the  Ter- 
ritory of  Minnesota,  shall  assemble  at  their 
respective  places  appointed  by  law  for  the 
opening  of  the  polls,  and  shall  there  proceed 
to  elect  by  ballot,  certain  Delegates  for  a  Con- 
vention  to   form   a   Constitution    and   State 
Government  for  this  Territory. 

Sec  2.  Every  Council  District  in  this 
Territory  shall  elect  two  Delegates  for  every 
Councillor  it  may  be  entitled  to  in  the  Legis- 
lative Council,  and  every  Representative 
District  shall  elect  two  Delegates  for  every 
member  they  may  be  entitled  to  in  the  House 
of  Representatives ;  Provided,  That  whenever 
any  District  has  been  sub-divided  in  order  to 
elect  their  Representative  in  the  Legislative 
Assembly,  the  same  sub-divison  shall  govern 
in  the  election  of  Delegates  to  the  Constitu- 
tional Convention. 

Sec.  3.     That  there  be  appropriated,  out 


of  any  money  in  the  Territorial  Treasury, 
unappropriated,  for  mileage  and  per  diem  of 
members,  officers,  and  secretaries,  and  for 
istationery,  the  sum  of  thirty  thousand  dol- 
lars. 

Sec  4.  That  the  members,  officers,  and 
secretaries  of  said  Convention  shall  be  enti- 
tled to  the  same  mileage  and  per  diem  as 
members  of  the  Legislative  Assembly ;  Pro- 
tided,  That  the  presiding  officer  shall  be 
entitled  to  three  dollars  per  day  extra. 

Sec  5.  The  compensation  herein  provided 
for  the  members,  officers,  and  secretaries, 
shall  be  certified  by  the  presidirtg  officer,  and 
attested  by  the  Secretary,  as  well  as  all  claims 
for  stationary,  printing,  and  all  other  incident- 
al expenses,  which, said  certificates,  when  so 
certified,  shall  be  sufficient  evidence  to  the 
Territorial  Treasurer  of  each  persons  claim. 

Sec  6.  The  qualifications  of  Delegates  to 
the  Constitutional  Convention  shall  be  the 
same  as  the  qualifications  for  members  of  the 
House  of  Representatives  or  the  Legislative 
Assembly. 

Sec  7.  This  Act  shall  be  in  force  from 
and  after  its  passage. 

Approved  May  twenty-third,  one  thousand 
eight  hundred  and  fifty-seven. 


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INDEX. 


99 


583 


Absence  of  Members — 

Committee  on  leave  of,  appointed, 
Absent  Members — 

To  be  permitted  to  sign  the  constitution 
Act— ^ 
Enabling  act  of  Congress,  -  Z 

Of  the  Territorial  Legislature  authorizing 
the  election  of  convention  to  form  a  con- 
stitution, -  -  5,  451 
Adjournment — 
Motions  for,  over  Saturday,             -           64,  98 
Resolution  for,  sine  die,           -            -  197 
"          laid  on  the  table,            -                219 
"          for,  sine  die,           -            -           400 
"          laid  on  the  table,           -                411 
"          taken  up  and  adopted,        -           438 
"          reconsidered,  and    laid    on  the 
table,            -            -            -            -           497 
Sine  die,                 ...               595 

Aldbich,  Cyrus,  (delegate  from  Hennepin,) — 
Appointed  a  member  of  the  committee  on 

credentials,  ...  9 

Wish  of  the  people  to  become  a  State,  re- 
marks on,  ...  12 
Resolution  to  admit  Mr.  Sheldok  to  a  seat, 

remarks  on,  -  -  -  29 

Appointed  chairman  of  the  committee  on 

the  executive  department,  -  68 

Appointed  a  member  of  the  committee  on 

banks,  ....  53 

Appointed  chairman  of  the  committee  on 

supplies  and  expenditures,  -  63 

Preamble  and  Bill  of  Rights,  remarks  on 

the  report  of  the  committee  on,  -  110 
The  Executive  Department,  remarks  on  the 

report  of  the  committee  on,  -  129 

Educational  Institutions  and  Interests,  re- 
marks on  the  report  of  the  committee  on,  247 
County  and  township  organization,  remarks 

on  the  report  of  the  committee  on,  -  262 
Appointed  a  member  of  the  compromise 

committee,  ...  411 

Resolution  relative  to  auditing  the  accounts 

of  the  official  reporter,  offered  by,  •  586 
Resolution  relative  to  auditing  the  accounts 

of  Owens  &  Moore,  offered  by,         .  586 


Aldrich,  Cyrus,  (delegate  from  Hennepin,) — 
Resolution  of  thanks  to  the  President  and 

officers  of  the  convention,  -  587 

Resolution  relative  to  the  expenses  of  the 
convention,  ...  5S7 

Amendment  of  the  Constitution — 
Committee  on,  ordered,      -  -  -        36 

"  appointed,  -  -  68 

Resolution  relative  to  the  mode  of  organiz- 
ing representative  bodies,  referred  to 
committee  on,  -  -  -  84 

Committee  on,  reported,        -  -  307 

Report  of  committee  on,  taken  up  in  com- 
mittee of  the  whole,  -  -  387 
Report  of  committee  on,  ordered  engrossed,  390 
"      read  a  third  time  and  adopted,      -     539 
Anderson,  Jno.  A.,  (dele^tefrom  Houston) — 
Appointed  member  of  the  committee  on  the 

Legislative  Department,  -  -  63 

Appointed  member  of  the  committee  on  ar- 
rangement and  phraseology,  -  68 
Andrews,  T.  F., — 
Employed  by  committee  on  reporting,      -        66 
Resolution  relative  to  payment  of,           -        636 
Appent)IX — 
Organic  Act  of  the  Territory,          -         599-604 
Constitution  of  the  State,         -           -      605-19 
Vote  of  the  people  on  the  constitution,     -     620 
Analytical  index  to  the  constitution,      -     621-4 
Arrangement  and  Phraseology — 
Committee  on,  ordered,            -            -           36 
"             appointed,             -            -        68 
Assault  on  Mr.  Wilson — 
Report  of  the  committee  of  conference,  sta- 
ting the,           ....          554 
Resolution  of  Mr.  Geeeish,  relative  to,    -     554 
Remarks  of  Mr.  Wilson,  relative  to,      -     560-5 

Assessment  of  Damages — 
Amendment  to  the  report  on  Bill  of  Rights 
relative  to,  in  taking  private  property  for 
public  use,  ...  179 

Amendment  rejected,        -  -  -     189 

Assistant  Secretary — 
J.  Q.  A.  Waed  elected,  pro  tem,  -  9 

"  "        permanently,  10 

Extra  pay  voted  to,  -  589 


INDEX. 


AUTHENTICATIOJf  OF  CONSTITUTION — 
Resolution  of  Mr.  Colbuen  for  the,        -        585 
"  "      Kemp.  "  -  585 

Ater,  Frederick,  (delegate  from  Morrison,) — • 
Appointed  member  of  the  committee  on  the 

Legislative  Department,  -  -        68 

Appointed  member  of  committee  on  real  and 
personal  estate  and  the  rights  of  married 
women,  -  -  68 

Leave  of  absence  granted  to,  -  493 

Babcock,  L.  a. — 

Elected  Secretary  pro  tern  of  the  Conven- 
tion, -----         9 

Elected  permanent  Secretary,    -  -  10 

Communicates  proceedings  relative  to  com- 
promise, .  -  -  -  496 

Extra  compensation  voted  to,  -  -    565 

Balcombe,  St.  A.  D.  (delegate  from  "Winona) 

Elected  President  of  the  Convention,        -       10 

Remarks  on  accepting  the  same,  -  10 

Preamble  and  Bill  of  Rights,   remarks  on  100 

Resolution  recommending  the  people  to 
hold  a  series  of  meetings  offered  by,  108 

The  designs  of  the  Administration  Leaders 
speech  on,  -  .  .         115-27 

The  Executive  Department,  remarks  on         130 

Exemption  of  Real  Estate  and  the  rights  of 
Married  Women,   remarks  on,  -        150 

Educational  Institutions  and  Interests,  re- 
marks on,  ...  231,  241 

County  and  Township  organizations,  re- 
marks on,  ...         264 

State  Officers  other  than  Executive,  remarks 
on,  -  ...  -     284 

Banks,  remarks  on,  -  -  312 

Impeachment  and  removal  from  office,  re- 
marks on,  -  -  -         333 

Striking  out  the  word  "  white,"  remarks 
on,  -  -  -  -     343 

Amendments  to  the  Constitution,  remarks 
on,  -  -  -  -      388 

Civilized  persons  of  Indian  descent,  their 
right  to  vote,  remarks  on,  -  395 

Proposition  to  submit  the  question  of  Boun- 
dary to  the  people,  remarks  on,  -        431 

Finance,  Taxation  and  Public  Debt,  remarks 
on,  -  -  -  -     464 

University  of  Minnesota,  remarks  on  the 
location  of,  and  distribution  of  the  fund 
of,  -  -  -  -       478 

Remarks  on  the  report  of  the  committee  on 
Miscellaneous  Provisions,  -  543 

Regent^  of  the  University,  remarks  on  the 
proposition  to  elect  by  the  people,  547 

Remarks  on  the  final  adjournment,        -         596 
Baldwin,  B.  C.  (delegate  from  Wabashaw) — 

Appointed  a  member  of  the  committee  on 
County  and  Township  Organization,  68 

Appointed  a  member  of  the  committee  on 
Educational  Institutions  and  Interests  68 

Educational  Institutions  and  Interests,  re- 
marks on,  ...         281 


I  Banks,  &c., — 

Committee  on,  ordered, 

"  "    appointed. 

Reports  of  committee  on, 
Consideration  of  report. 
Report  ordered  engrossed. 


-      35- 

68 

87,  307 

141,  308 

333 


"     read  a  third  time  and  adopted,  504 

Bartholomew,  R.  L.    (delegate  from  Hen- 
nepin)— 
Appointed  a  member  of  the  committee  on 

Elections  and  Credentials,  -  68 

Speech  on  the  organization  of  the  Militia 
System,  -  -  -        458-68 

Bates,  E.  N.  (delegate  from  Hennepin) — 

Appointed  a  member  of  the  committee  on 
Banks,  &c.,        -  -  -  68 

Appointed  a  member  of  the  committee  on 
Arrangement  and  Phraseology,  -       68 

Executive  Department,  remarks  on      -  130 

Banking,  and  Corporations  other  than  Mu- 
nicipal, remarks  on,  -  -      141,  319 

Exemption  of  Real  Estate  and  the  Rights  of 
Married  Women,  remarks  on,  -       150 

Amendment  to  report  on  Preamble  and  Bill 
of  Rights,  relative  to  assessment  of  dama- 
ges in  taking  private  property  for  public 
uses,  remarks  thereon,  -  174 

Educational  Institutions  and  Interests,  re- 
marks on,  -  -  -         237 

Elective  Franchise,  remarks  on,    -  383 

University  of  Minnesota,  remarks  on  the  lo- 
cation and  distribution  of  the  fund  of,         485 

Remarks  on  reconsidering  the  vote  whereby 
an  article  relative  to  the  University  was 
adopted,  -  -  -  50O 

Billings,  H.  A.  (delegate  from  Fillmore) — 
Wish  of  the  people  to  become  a  State,  re- 
marks on,  -       ,        -  -  17 
Resolution  of  invitation  to  Delegates  to  pre- 
sent their  credentials,  remarks  on,  61 
Appointed  chairman  of  the  committee  on 

State  Officers  other  than  executive,  68 

Appointed  a  member  of  the  Judiciary  com- 
mittee, -  -  -  68 
Limitation  of  discussion,  remarks  on,  72 
Preamble  and  Bill  of  Rights, remarks  on.  111,  96 
Executive  Department,  remarks  on,  136 
State  Seal  and  Coat  of  Arms,   appointed 

chairman  of  committee  on,  -  182 

Legislative  Department,  remarks  on,  207 

County    and    Township    Organization,   re- 
marks on,  ...  259 
State  Officers,   other  than    executive,  re- 
marks on,               ...         282 
Civilized  persons  of  Indian  descent,  remarks 
on  proposition  to  extend  the  elective  fran- 
chise to,               -               -               -  895 
Remarks  on  report  of  the  committee  on 

State  Seal  and  Coat  of  Arms,  412,  518 

Finance,  Taxation  and  Public  Debt,  re- 
marks on,  -  -  -         464 


INDEX. 


Billings,  H.  A.  (delegate  from  Fillmore) — 

Remarks  on  amendment  to  report  of  the 
committee  on  Public  Property,  relative  to 
common  highways,  -  -         476 

University  of  Minnesota,  remarks  on  the 
location  and  distribution  of  fund  of,  478 

Elective  Franchise,  remarks  on  the  final 
adoption  of  the  report  of  the  committee 
on  .  .  .  .641 

Report  of  the  Compromise  committee,  re- 
marks on,  .  .  .  579 

Resolution  relative  to  mileage  of  members, 
ofiered  by,  .  .  .        584 

BoLLEs,  Thos.  (delegate  from  Rice) — 

Salaries,  appomted  a  member  of  committee 


on. 


68 


Banking  and  Corporations  other  than  Mu- 
nicipal, appointed  a  member  of  commit- 
mittee  on  .  .  .68 

Preamble  and  Bill  of  Rrights,  remarks  on 

report  of  committee  on,  .  .     96 

Proposes  a  substitute  for,        .  .  153 

Banking,  &c.,  remarks  on  .  .   141 

Punishment  of  Crimes,  remarks  on,     .  147 

Exemption  of  real  and  personal  estate,  re- 
marks on,  -  -  149 
The  rights  of  married  women,  remarks  on,    174 
Liquor  licenses,  submits  a  proposition  for- 
ever prohibiting,                -                .             175 
State  seal  and  coat  of  arms,  appointed  a 

member  of  committee  on,  -  -    182 

Capital  punishment,  remarks  on,  -         190 

Educational  institutions  and  interests,  re- 
marks on,  -  -  233,  242 
Remarks  on  printing  boundary  resolution,    444 
Militia  organization,  remarks  on,            -        456 
Remarks  on  the  State  seal  and  coat  of  arms,  518 
Remarks  on  the  adoption  of  the  report  of 
the  committee  on  election  franchise,      -      542 
Books  for  Members — 
Proposition  submitted  for,                -  81 

—  debate  and  rejection  of,  -  -        82 
Boundaries — 

Committee  on,  ordered,  -  -  35 

"  appointed  -  -  68 

Report  of  committee  on,  -  .        88 

—  taken  up  in  committee  of  the  whole,  -  221 
Proposition  of  Mr.  Davis,  -  -  408 
Letter  from  W.  C.  Dodge,  -  -  452 
Proceedings  of  meeting  at  St.  Peter,  -  453 
Report  read  a  third  time  and  adopted,      -     558 

BcTLEB,  A.  H.,  (delegate  from  Fillmore,) — 
Punishment  of  crimes,  appointed  a  member 

of.the  committee  on,  .  .  gg 

Supplies    and    expenditures,   appointed   a 

member  of  the  committee  on,  -  68 

Preamble  and  Bill  of  Rights,  remarks  on,      101 

Remarks  on  the  report  of  the  committee  on 

miscellaneous  provisions,  -  551 

Call  of  the  House — 

Ordered,  -  34,  249,  325,  493,  497, 

[501,  507,  539,  558 


Capital  Punishment — 
Proposition  of  Mr.  Bolles  to  prevent  the 

enacting  of  any  law  for  prohibiting,      -      189 
Substitute  of  Mr.  Maxtor  for,  -  190 

—  Proposition  and  substitute  lost.  -      191 
Cederstam,  p.  a.,  (delegate  from  Chisago,) — 

Elective  Franchise,  appointed  chairman  of 
the  committee  on,  -  -  68 

County  and  township  organization,  appoint- 
ed a  member  of  the  committee  on,        -        68 

Granted  leave  of  absence,  -  -        182 

Census  of  the  Territory — 

Resolutions  and  remarks  in  reference  to,   26,  27 

Resolution  to  wait  upon  U.  S.  Marshal,      -      65 

—  laid  over  under  the  rules,  -  66 

—  taken  up,  -  -  67 

—  laid  on  the  table  and  made  the  special 
order,  -  -  68 

—  taken  up  and  disagreed  to,  -  71 
Resolution  of  Mr.  Perkins  in  reference  to,      74 

—  discussed  and  laid  on  the  table,  -        81 
Chase,  0.  L.,  (Secretary  of  the  Territory,) — 

Demands  the  use  of  the  Hall,  -  28 

Cleghorn,  John,  (delegate  from  Fillmore,) — 
State  officers  other  than  executive,  appoint- 
ed a  member  of  committee  on,  -  68 

—  Remarks  on,  -  -  286 
Elections  and  credentials,  appointed  a  mem- 
ber of  committee  on,             -                  -     68 

Enrollment,  appointed  on  committee  on,     -    68 

Selected  as  chairman  of  the  committee  of 
the  whole,  -  -         281,  454 

Remarks  on  striking  out  the  word  "  white,"  347 

Elective  Franchise,  remarks  on,  -  384- 

Finance,  taxation  and  public  debt,  remarks 
on,  -  -  -         463. 

Remarks  on  the  report  of  the  committee  on 
miscellaneous  provisions,  -  544 

Resolution  relative  to  enrolling  the  constitu- 
tion, offered  by,  -  -  584 

Resolution  to  print  the  journal,  offered  by,    585 
"         relative  to  signing  the  constitu- 
tion, offered  by,  -  -       586 
CoE,  Chas.  a.,  (delegate  from  Houston,) — 

Executive  department,  appointed  a  member 
of  the  committee  on,  -  68 

Miscellaneous  provisions,  appointed  a  mem- 
ber of  the  committee  on,  -  68 

Resolution  to  adjourn  sine  die  on  the  7th  of 
August,  offered  by,  -  -         197 

Selected  as  chairman  of  the  committee  of 
the  whole,  -  -  475 

CoGGSWELL,  Amos,  (delegate  from  Steele,) — 

Substitute  for  resolution  relative  to  the  wish 
of  the  people  to  become  a  State,  proposed 
by,  -  -  11 

—  Remarks  on,  -  -       11,  17 
Proposition  to  appoint  a  standing  committee 

on  State  boundary,  remarks  on,  -         39 

Resolution  relative  to  the  use  of  the  Terri- 
torial Library,  offered  by,  -  39 


INDEX. 


40 


43 


46 


53 


54 


62 


65 


68 
194 


70 


COGGSWELL,  Amos,  (delegate  from  Steele,)—  | 
Resolution  to  print  the  Enabling  Act,  of-  ' 

fered  by, 
Proposition  to  supply  the  members  with 

newspapers,  remarks  on, 
Resolution  relative  to  the  incidental  print- 
ing, offered  by. 
Resolution  relative  to  officeholders  in  the 

convention,  offered  by, 
Ehgibility  of  Federal  officeholders  to  seats 

in  the  convention,  remarks  on. 
Invitation  to  all  delegates  to  present  their 

credentials,  remarks  on, 
Sesolution  relative  to  the  U.  S.  Marshal,  of- 
fered by. 
Appointed  on  the  committee  on  the  schedule, 
Preamble    and  Bill  of    Rights,   appointed 

chairman  of  the  committee  on, 
—  Remarks  on. 

Remarks  on  the  resolution  to  appoint  a  com- 
mittee to  wait  upon  the  U.  S.  Marshal, 
Oro-anization  of  the  convention,   remarks 

Legislative  Department,  remarks  on,       -      199 
Boundary  of  the  State,  remarks  on  the  sub- 
stitute for  the  report  of  the  committee 
on,  -  -  227-9 

Educational  institutions  and  interests,  re- 
marks on,  -  -  2434 
Rights  of  settlers  on  school  lands,  remarks 

on,  -  -  256 

County  and  township  organization,  remarks 

on, 
State  officers  other  than  executive,  remarks 

on. 
Banking,  &c.,  remarks  on. 
Equal  suffrage,  remarks  on  the  proposition 

to  submit  the  question  of,  to  the  people, 
Remarks  on  Mr.  Fostee's  suDstitute  to  sec- 
tion one  for  the  report  of  the  committee 
on  elective  franchise,  -  379 

Amendments  to  the  constitution,  remarks  on,  389 
Civilized  persons  of    Indian  descent,   re- 
marks on  the  question  of  extending  the 
right  of  suffrage  to,  -  396 

Judiciary,   remarks  on  the  report  of  the 

committee  on,  -  -  403 

Selected  as  chairman  of  the  committee  of 

the  whole,  -  -  411 

Proposition  to  submit  the  question  of  State 

boundary  to  the  people,  remarks  on,  412 

Printing  boundary  resolution,  remarks  on,    443 
Public  property,  remarks  on  the  report  of 

the  committee  on,  -  476 

University  of  Minnesota,  remarks  on  the  lo- 
cation and  distribution  of  the  fund  of,     482-4 
Navigable  waters,  remarks  on  the  subject  of,  510 
State  officers,    remarks  on    the    qualilica- 

tionof,  -  -  521 

Remarks  on  the 'three  months  residence 

clause,  -  -  524 

Compromise  committe,  remarks  on  the  re- 
port of,  -  -  570-8 


267 


283 
819 


307 


57 


99 


74 


OOGGSWELL,  Amos,  (delegate  from  Steele,)— 
Resolution  relative  to  the  pay  of  members, 

offered  by,  -  -  586 

Resolution  proposing  extr-K  compensation  to 

members,  -  -  589 

Payment  of  members  and  officers,  remarks 
on,  -  -  593 

CoLBURN,  N.  B.  (delegate  from  Fillmore)— 
Wish  of  the  people  to  become  a  State,  re- 
marks on  .  •        19>  20, 25 
Remarks  on  resolution  inviting  members  to 

present  credentials. 
Banking,  &c.,   appointed  chairman  of  the 

committee  on. 
Elective  Franchise,  appointed  member  of 

the  committee  on, 
Resolution  to  hold  but  one  session  per  day, 

offered  by. 
Resolution  for  the  appointment  of  a  com- 
mittee on  Leave  of  Absence,  offered  by. 
Selected  as  Chairman  of  the  committee  of 

the  Whole,  .  100, 108, 281, 400 

Leave  of  Absence,  appointed  chairman  of 

the  committee  on,  .  ■        108 

Executive  Department,  remarks  on,  131 

Banking,  &c.,  remarks  on,  .         143, 321 

Exemption  of  Real  and  Personal  Property, 

remarks  on,  .  .  150 

Taking  private  property  for  public  uses, 

remarks  on,  .  .  188 

Educational  Institutions  aud  Interests,  re- 

mai'ks  on,  .  .       .    237, 253 

County    and    Township    Organization,  re- 
marks on,  •  .  263 
Remarks  on  striking  out  the  word  "  white,"  347 
Substitute  of  Mr.  Foster,  to  section  one  of 
the  report  of  the  committee  on  the  elec- 
tive franchise,  remarks  on,    .               .        377 
Elective  Franchise,  remarks  on  report  of 

committee  on.  .  •  383 

Amendments  to  the  Constitution,  remarks 

on  .  •  •  387 

Civilized  persons  of  Indian  descent,  remarks 

on  extending  the  right  of  suffrage  to,         396 
Resolution  to  adjourn  sine  die,  August  13th,  400 
Resolution  directing  the  Secretary  to  com- 
municate the  compromise  resolutions  to 
the  Democratic  Convention,  .  441 

Remarks  on  referring  the  question  of  State 

Boundary  to  the  people,  .  414 

Militia,  remarks  on  the  organization  of,  455 
Salt  Springs,  remarks  on  the  disposition  of,  491 
State  Seal  and  Coat  of  Arms,  remarks  on,  519 
Qualification  of  State  OfficeVs,  remarks  on. 
Remarks  on  the  report  of  the  committee  on 

Miscellaneous  Provisions, 
Regents  of  the  University,  remarks  on  the 

proposition  to  elect  by  the  people. 
Assault  on  Mr.  Wilson,  remarks  on. 
Printing  the  Debates  and  Proceedings,  re- 
marks on. 
Resolution  relative  to  the  expenses  of  the 


532 

645 

547 
555 

559 


INDEX. 


OoLBCBN,  N.  B.  (delegate  from  Fillmore) — 
Conyention  to  form  a  Constitution,  offered 
by  -  -  -  555 

Compromise  committee,  remarks  on  the 
report  of,  .  .  •  .     566 

Resolution  relative  to  the  authentication  of 
the  Constitution,  offered  by,  .  585 

Resolution  relatiTeto  the  pay  of  the  Reporter,  586 

Remarks  on  the  pay  of  Members,  .        591 

Committee — 

On  Credentials,  appointed  .  9 

On  standing  committees,  appointed,      .  27 

On  reporting,  .  •  23 

Standing  committees,  appointed,  .  68 

Committee  on  Leave  of  Absence  appoint€d,    79 

"  "  Engrossment,  "  197 

"  "  Enrollment,  "  231 

"  "  Compromise,  "  410 

Committee  of  the  Whole — 

On  the  wish  of  the  people  to  become  a 
State,  -  -  13 

Preamble  and  Bill  of  Rights,  on  the  report 
of  the  committee  on,  88,  100, 109, 127 

Executive  department,  on  the  report  of  com- 
mittee on,  -  -  123 

Bankings  &c.,  on  the  report  of  committee 
on,  -  -  141, 803 

Punishment  of  crimes,  on  the  report  of 
committee  on,  -  -  147 

Exemption  of  real  and  persoaal  estate,  and 
the  rights  of  married  women,  on  the  re- 
port of  committee  on,  .  149 

Legislative  department,  on  the  report  of 
the  committee  on,  -  199,  516 

State  boundary,  on  the  report  of  the  com- 
mittee on,  -  -  221 

Organization  of  cities  and  villages,  on  the 
report  of  committee  on,  -  230 

Educational  institutions  and  interests,  on 
the  report  of  the  committee  on,  230,  232 

County  and  township  organization  on  the 
report  of  the  committee  on,  -  259 

State  officers  other  than  executive,  on  the 
report  of  the  committee  on,  -  281 

Impeachment  and  removals,  on  the  report 
of  committee  on,  -  333 

Elective  franchise,  on  the  report  of  the  com- 
mittee on,  -  337, 438,  540 

Amendment  and  revision,  on  report  of  com- 
mittee on,  -'  -  387 

Salaries,  on  report  of  committee  on,        -      390 

Judiciary,  on  the  report  of  the  committee  on,  400 

On  the  proposition  for  submitting  to  the  peo- 
ple the  questipn  of  boundary,        -      413,  417 

Militia,  on  the  report  of  the  committee  on,    454 

Finance,  Taxation,  and  Public  Debt,  on  the 
report  of  the  committee  on,  -  462 

Internal  Improvements,  on  the  report  of  the 
committee  on,  -  -  475 

Public  Property,  on  the  report  of  the  com- 
mittee on,  -  -  475, 482 

Schedule,  on  the  report  of  the  committee 
on>  -  V20, 526, 527,  543 

B 


196 
595 


Committee  of  the  Whole — 
State  Seal  and  Coat  of  Arms,  on  the  report 

of  committee  on,  -  537 

Miscellaneous  Provisions,  on  the  report  of 
committee  on,  -  -  543 

CoMMOx  Highways — 
Amendment  of  Mr.  Billixgs  to  article  on 

Public  Property  relative  to,  -  476 

— Rejection  of,  -  -  477 

Compromise — 
Resolutions  submitted    by  Mr.  Galbraith 

for  a,  -  -  410 

The  Secretary  directed  to  transmit  the  same 

to  the  Democratic  Convention,  441 

Communication  from  the  Secretary  relative 

to,  -  -  496 

Commnnications  from  H.  H.  Siblbt  relative 

to,  -      .  -  536,  685 

Report  of  committee  on,  -  565 

Committee  on,  report  Constitution  enrolled,  533 

Conduct  of  the  Democrats — 
Resolution  of  Mr.  McClure  relative  to, 

—  Of  Mr.  Foster  relative  to. 
Contested  Seat — 

Petition  of  Chas.  B.  Sheldox,             -  27 

—  referred  to  select  committee,  27 
— report  of  select  committee  on,  -  28 
Discussion  of  the  report  -  -  28-34 
Report  of  the  committee  on  Credentials,  52 

Coombs,  Albert  W.,    (delegate  from  Hen- 
nepin,)— 

Elections  and  credentials,  appointed  mem- 
ber of  the  committee  on,  -  6S 
CotrsTY  AND  Township  Organization  — 
Committee  on,  ordered, 

"  appointed. 

Report  of  committee  on, 

—  taken  up  in  committee  of  the  whole, 
Ordered  engrossed,  and  read  a  third  time 

and  adopted. 
Credentials — 
Committee  on,  appointed, 
Report  of  committee  on. 
Report  of  committee  on,  in  the  case  of  Mr. 

Sheldox, 
Of  members,  ordered  to  be  filed  with  the 
Secretary, 
Daily  Session — 
Resolution  for  one,  per  day, 

—  taken  up  and  adopted, 
Davis,  E.  Page,  (delegate  firom  Nicollet)- 

Invitation  to  delegates  to  present  their  cre- 
dentials, remarks  on. 

Punishment  of  crimes,  appointed  chairman 
of  committee  on, 

Miscellaneous  provisions,  appointed  a  mem- 
ber of  the  committee  on,  -  6S 

Preamble  and  Bill  of  Rights,  remarks  on,  91, 114 

Leave  of  absence,  appointed  member  of  com- 
mittee on,  .  .  lOS 


34 

68 

166 

259 

281 


52 


64 


57 


68 


INDEX. 


Davis,  E.  Page,  (delegate  from  Nicollet) — 
Executive  department,  remarks  on,  .  129 
Resolution  to  submit  boundary  question  to 

the  people,  offered  by,  .  .        408 

Remarks  on,  .  .  .  408-10 

Printing  boundary  resolutions,  remarks  on,  448 
Capital  of  the  State,  remarks  on  proposition 
'      to  locate  at  St.  Peter,  .  .  521 

Apportionment  of  representation,  remarks 

on,  ,  .  ,  527 

Remarks  on  the  report  of  the  compromise 

committee,  .  .  .  580 

Remarks  on  the  payment  of  members  aud 

officers,  .  .  590 

Compensation  of  the  Democratic  members, 

resolution,  relative  to,  offered  by,        .        586 

Designs  of  Administration  Leaders — 
Reiolutions  of  Mr.   Balcombe,  relative  to 

introduced,  -  -        108 

Speech  of  Mr.  Balcombe  on,        -  115-27 

DicKERSON,  D.  D.  (delegate  from  Scott) — 
Salaries,  appointed  a  member  of  committee 

on,  -  -  68 

Finance,  Taxation  and  Public  Debt,  remarks 

on,  -  -  68 

Elective  Franchise  remarks  on,  -         S82 

Judiciary  system,  remarks  on,  .  405 

Finance,  Taxation,   and    Public  Debt,   re- 
marks on,  .  .  465 

DuLEY,  Warben  J.  (delegate  from  Winona) 
Punishment  of  Crimes,  appointed  a  member 

of  committee  on,  .  .  68 

Printing,  appointed  a  member  of  commit- 
tee on,  .  .  68 
Preamble  and  Bill  of  Rights,  remarks  on,      100 
Leave  of  Absence,  appointed  a  member  of 

committee  on,  .  .       108 

Educational  Institutions  and  Interests,  re- 
marks on,  .  .  252 
Selected  as  chairman  of  the  committee  of 
the  Whole,                   .                   .  551 

Educational  Institutions,  &c. — 

Committee  on,  ordered,                   .  35 

"           appointed,           .  .        68 

Report  of  committee  on,        .             .  83 

Report  on,  taken  up  in  committee  of  the 

whole,                   .                  .  .          128 

—  reported  correctly  engrossed,  .          182 
Read  a  third  time  and  adopted,  .           537 

Elections  and  Credentials — 

Committee  on,  ordered,            .  .           89 

"           appointed,                 .  68 
Elective  Franchise — 

Committee  on,  ordered,            .  .            85 

"           appointed,               ,  68 

Report  of  committee  on,           .  .          887 
Supplementary  report  of  committee  on,  on 

the  question  of  equal  suflfrage,  .         867 

Report  ordered  engrossed,               .  400 

—  read  a  third  time  and  adopted,  .        640 


Eligibility  of  certain  Members — 
Mr.  Ooggswell's  resolution  on  the,         .         53 

—  discussion  of,  .  .  53-& 
Resolution  laid  over,                   .               .        56 

—  called  up  aud  laid  on  the  table,         .  65 
Enabling  Act — 

Ordered  to  be  printed,  .  .  40 

Resolution  to  place  on  the  journal,  .        64 

Engrossment — 

Committee  on,  ordered.  .  ,  19T 

"  appointed,  .  197 

Enrollment — 

Committee  on,  ordered,  .  .  221 

"  appointed,  .    .  221 

Equal  Suffrage — 
Resolution  to  refer  to  the  people  the  ques- 
tion of,  .  .  367 
Supplemental  report  of  the  committee  on 
elective  franchise,  in  reference  to,        .       3G7 
Escheats — 

Proposition  to  amend  the  article  on  Public 

Property  relative  to,  .  491 

Consideration  of  amendment,      .  .      491-3 

Amcndmont  adopted,  .  .  493 

EscHLiE,  Henry  (delegate  from  Cai^er) — 
Organization  of  Cities  and  Tillages,  appoin- 
ted a  member  of  committee  on,  68 
Elective  Franchise,  appointed  a  member  of 
committee  on,                       .                       .      68 

Executive  Department — 

Committee  on  ordered,  .                38 

"            "  appointed,         .  •     68 

Report  of  committee  on,  •                83 

—  taken  up  in  committee  of  the  Whole,         128 

—  reported  correctly  engrossed,  .          182 

—  read  a  third  time  and  adopted,  537 
Exemptions,  &c., — 

Committee  on  ordered,                    .  38 

"          "  appointed,        .                  .  OS 

Report  of  committee  on,                 •  78 

—  taken  up  in  committee  of  the  Whole,  149 

—  indefinitely  postponed,               .  152 
Federal  Officers — 

Their  eligibility  to  seats  in  the  Convention, 

resolution  and  discussion  relative  to,        53-6 
Resolution  laid  over,  .  56 

—  called  up  and  laid  on  the  table,  .  60 

Finances,  Taxation  and  Debt — 

Committee  on,  ordered,                  .  35 

"           "  appointed,                .  68 

Report  of  committee  on,        .  •  407 

—  taken  up  in  committee  of  the  Whole,         462 

—  ordered  engrossed,                  .  •         476 

—  read  a  third  time  and  adopted,  589 

FoLSOM,  W.  II.  C.  (delegate  from  Chisago) — 
Legislative  Department,  appointed  a  mem- 
ber of  the  committee  on,  .  68 
Impeachment    and   Removal,   appointed  a 
member  of  the  cooimittee  on,         .              6&- 


*• 


INDEX. 


VII 


FoLSOM,  W.  H.  C.  (delegate  fron  Chisago) — 
Organization  of  representative  bodies,  reso- 
lution relative  to,  offered  bv,  .  82 
Legislative  Department,  remarks  on,              205 
Appointed  chairman  of  the  committee  on 

engrossment  .  .  221 

Educational  Institutions  and  Interests,  re- 
marks on,  .  .  241  ! 
County  and  Township  organization,  remarks 

on,"  .  .  271 

Banking,  &c.,  remarks  on,  .  325 

Elective  Franchise,  remarks  on,  .       384 

Judiciary,  remarks  on,        .  .  4<>4 

Boundaries  of  the  State,  proposition  to  refer 
the  question  of  to  the  people,  remarks 
on,  .  .  416 

Finances,   Taxation,    and  Public   Debt,  re- 
marks on,  .  .  465 
Navigable  waters,  Temarks  on  the  subject  of  512 
Kemarks  on  the  three  months'  residence 

clause,  .  .  524 

Substitute  for  the  resolution  submitting  the 
question  of  the  location  of  tft  Capitol  to 
the  people,  offered  by,  .  539 

Election  of  Regents  of  the  University  by  the 
people,  remarks  on  proposition  for,  550 

Foster,  Tnos.  (delegate  from  Dakota) — 
Wish  of  the  people    to   become  a  State, 

remarks  on,  .  .  12 

Resolution  admitting  Mr.  Sheldox,  remarks 

on,  .  •     .  29-33 

Resolution   relative  to  the  census  of  the 

Territory,  offered  by,  .  27 

Resolution  relative  to  stationery,  offered  by,    40 
Proposition  to  furnish  newspapers  to  mem- 
•        bers  of  the  convention,  .  .  41 

Resolution  relative  to,  offered  by,  .         47 

Printing  for  the  convention,  remarks  on  the 

question  of,  .  .  48 

Invitation  to  delegates  to  present  their  cre- 
dentials, remarks  on,  .  .  60 
Arrangement  and  phraseology,   appointed 

a  member  of  the  committee  on,  .         68 

Schedule,  appointed  chairman  of  the  com- 
mittee on,  .  .  CS 
Printing,  appointed  chairman  of  the  com- 
mittee on,  .  .  63 
Banking,  kc,  remarks  on,  .  144,  329 
Punishment  of  crimes,  remarks  on,  .  148 
Selected  as  chairman  of  the  committee  of 

the  whole,  .  .  149,475 

The  rights  of  married  women,  remarks  on,  169 
County  and  township  organization,  remarks 

on,  .  .  260 

Striking  out  the  word   "white,"  remarks 

on,  .  .  .  340-2 

Judiciary,  remarks  on,  407 

Boundaries  of^the  State,  proposition  to  refer 

the  question  of,  to  the  people,  .  415 

Militia,  remarks  on  the  organization  of,  .  455 
Salt  springs,  remarks  on  the  disposition  of,  490 
Escheats,  remarks  on  the  subject  of,        .       492 


FostEB,  Thos.,  (delegate  fi:x)m  Dakota) — 
University  of  Minnesota,  remarks  on  the 

location  and  distribution  of  the  fund  of,  494 
Navigable  waters,  remarks  on  the  subject  of,  510 
Assault  on  Mr.  "Wilsox,  remarks  on,  .  556 
Report  of  the  compromise  committee,  offers 

resolution  relative  to  the  report  of,  .  583 
Payment  of  the  members  of  the  convention, 

remarks  cn  the  subject  of,  .  590 

The  conduct  of  the  Democratic  convention, 

resolution  relative  to,  offered  by,         .        595 
FoSTEB,    "WiLLIAJI — 

Elected  Sergeant-at-Arms^o  tern,  .  9 

"      permanently,  .  .  .10 

Extra  pay  voted  to,        .  .  .         589 

FCBBEB,   P.    P. 

Oath  to  members  and  oflBcers  of  the  conven- 
tion, offered  by,  .  .10 

Galbraith,  Thos  J.,  (delegate  from  Scott) — 

Elected  President  pw  ffm  of  the  convention,      9 

Wish  of  the  people  to  become  a  State,  re- 
marks on,  -  -  13, 15,  22-3 

Resolution  to  admit  Mr.  Shkldon  to  a  seat, 
remarks  on. 

Eligibility  of  Federal  officeholders  to  seats 
in  the  convention,  remarks  on, 

Invitation  to  all  delegates  to  present  their 
credentials,  remarks  on. 

Judiciary,  appointed  a  member  of  the  com- 
mittee on. 

Impeachments,  appointed  a  member  of  the 
committee  on. 

Miscellaneous  provisions,  appointed  chair- 
man of  the  committee  on. 

Elections  and  credentials,  appointed  chair- 
man of  committee  on. 

Limitation  of  discussion,  resolntion  for,  of- 
fered by, 

—  remarks  on. 

Preamble  and  Bill  of  Rights,  remarks  on. 

Educational  institutions  and  interests,  re- 
marks on,  -  -        .     245-7 

Rights  of  settlers  on  school  lands,  remarks 
on,  -  -  257 

Selected  as  chairman  of  the  committee  of 
the  whole,  -  -  259 

County  and  township  organization,  remarks 
on, '  -  -       273,  874,  276 

State  officers  other  than*execQtive,  remarks 
on,  -  -  232 

Banking,  &c.,  remarks  on,  -  310 

Striking  out  the  word  "  white,"  remarks 
on.  -  -  343-5 


23 


53 


oS 


6S 


6S 


68 


63 


71 


89 


Elective  franchise,  remarks  on. 

Civilized  persons  of  Indian  descent,  remarks 
on  proposition  to  extend  the  elective  fran- 
chbe  to,  -  -  - 

Judiciary,  remarks  on, 

Compromise  resolutions,  submitted  by, 

—  appointed  chairman  of  committee  on,   . 

Remarks  on  referring  the  question  of  State 
Boundary  to  the  people, 


334 


396 
406 
410 
411 

429 


INDEX. 


Galbbaith,  Thos,  J.,  (delegate  from  Scott) — 
Militia,  remarks  on  the  organization  of,         456 
Escheats,  remarks  on  the  subject  of,        -        491 
Assault  on  Mr.  Wilson,  remarks  on,        -      554 
Compromise  committee,  remarks  on  the  re- 
port of,  -  -  568 
Payment  ol  members  and  officers,  remarks 
on,                  -                             -                  592 
Grbbish,  Chaeles  (delegate  froip  Winona) — 
Educational  Institutions  and  Interests,  ap- 
pointed a  member  of  the  committee  on,        68 
Supplies    and    expenditures,   appointed  a 

member  of  the  committee  on,  .  68 

Assault  on  Mr.  Wilson,  resolution  relative 

to,  offered  by,  .  .  554 

Extra  compensation  to  members,  resolution 
for,  offered  by,  .  .  589 

GowAN,  John  H. — 
Resolution  to  allow  extra  pay  to,  as  Assist- 
ant Sergeant  at  Arms,  587 
Hall,  D.  M.  (delegate  from  St.  Anthony) — 

Organization  of  Cities  and  Villages,  appoin- 
ted a  member  of  the  committee  on,  68 

Finance,  Taxation  and  Public  Debt,  appoin- 
ted a  member  of  the  committee  on,  68 
Hanson,  Charles  (delegate  from  Fillmore) — 

Amendment  and  revision  of  the  Constitution, 
appointed  a  member  of  the  committee  on,    08 

Internal  Improvements,  appointed  a  mem- 
ber of  the  committee  on,  . .  68 
Habding,  Simeon  (delegate  from  Olmsted) — 

State  Boundaries,  appointed  a  member  of 
the  committee  on,  -  68 

Elective  Franchise,  appointed  a  member  of 
the  committee  on,  -  -  68 

Newspapers,  offers  a  resolution  in  relation 
to  the  supply  of,  -  48 

County  and   Township    organizations,   re- 
marks on,  -  -  -         260 

Judiciary,  remarks  on,  -  402 

Term  of  Judicial  officers,  remarks  on,  516 

Hayde^i,  Wentwoeth   (delegate  from    Hen- 
nepin— 

Remarks  on  resolution  inviting  members  to 
present  credentials,  -  58 

Executive  Department,  appointed  a  member 
of  committee  on,  -  68 

State  Officers,  other  than  executive,  appoin- 
ted a  member  of  committee  on,  68 

Preamble  and  Bill  of  Rights,  remarks  on 
the  report  of  the  committee  on,         -  89 

Boundaries  of  the  State,  remarks  on,  222 

Educational  Institutions  and  Interests,  re- 
marks on  the  report  of  the  committee  on,  240 

County  and  township  organization,  remarks 
on  the  report  of  the  committee  on,        -     266 

State  Officers  other  than  Executive,  remarks 
on,  -  -  -  -     281 

Selected  as  chairman  of  the  committee  of 
the  whole,  -  •         883, 667 

Striking  out  the  word  "  white,"  remarks 
on,  -  -  -  -     869 


Hayden,  Wentwoeth,  (delegate  from  Hen- 
nepin, 

Civilized  persons  of  Indian  descent,  re- 
marks on  the  question  of  extending  the 
right  of  suffrage  to,  -        ,        392 

Personal  Explanation,  by,        -  -         452 

Remarks  on  the  report  of  the  committee  on 
Miscellaneous  Provisions,  -  545 

Holley,  H.  W.  (delegate  from  Fillmore)— 

Finance,  taxation  and  Public  Debt,  appoin- 
ted a  member  of  committee  on,  68 

Amendment  and  Revision  of  the  Constitu- 
tion, appointed  chairman  of  the  commit- 
tee on,  -  '  68 

Selected  as  Chairman  of  the  committee  of 
the  Whole,  .  141 

Hudson,  Aakon  G.  (delegate  from  Goodhue) 

Wish  of  the  people  to  become  a  State,  re- 
marks on,  -  -  -  12,  18 

Amendment  and  revision  of  the  Constitu- 
tion, appointed  a  member  of  the  commit- 
tee on,  -  -  68 

Schedule,  appointed  a  member  of  the  com- 
mittee on,  -  -  68 

Educational  Institutions  and  Interests,  re- 
marks on,  .  .  251 

State  Officers,  other  than  executive,  re- 
marks on,  ...         282 

Banking,  &c.,  remarks  on,  -  320 

Striking  out  the  word  "white,"  remarks  on,  342 
Elective  Franchise,  remarks  on,  -         386 

Amendments  to  the  Constitution,  remarks 

on,  -  -  -  -     388 

Civilized  persons  of  Indian  descent,  re- 
marks on  the  question  of  extending  the 
right  of  suflrage  to,  -  -    394 

Judiciary,  remarks  on  the  report  of  the 

committee  on,  -  405 

Proposition  to  submit  the  question  of  Boun- 

•dary  to  the  people,  remarks  on,  -        435 

Printing  boundary  resolution,  remarks  on,     447 
Selected  as  chairman  of  the  committee  of 

the  whole,  -  -  462 

Navigable  waters,  remarks  on  the  subject  of,  509 
Manner  of  voting  for  the  Constitution,  re- 
marks on,  -  523 
Apportionment  of  representation,  remarks 

on,  -  -  527 

State  Officers,  remarks  on  the  time  'of  the 

qualification  of,  -  585 

Assault  on  Mr.  Wilson,  remarks  on,  558 

Impeacuments,  &c., — 

Committee  on,  ordered,  -  -      86 

"  "    appointed,    -  -  68 

Report  of  committee  on,  -  219 

Consideration  of  report,  833 

Report  ordered  engrossed,  -  -  834 

"     read  a  third  time  and  adopted,  542 

Impbisonment  for  Debt — 

Incidental  debate  thereon,  -  177-8 

Internal  Impeovements — 
Committee  on,  ordered,  -  -     '     86 


INDEX. 


Internal  Impbovemexts — 
Committee  on,  appointed,  -  -   68 

Report  of  the  committee  on,  -  449 

—  taken  up  in  committee  of  the  whole,  475 
Report  stricken  out,               -                  -        475 

Invitation  to  Delegates — 
Resolution  of  Mr.  North,  -  56 

—  discussion  of,  -  -     56-64 

—  amended  and  adopted,  -  64 
Judicial  Depabtment — 

Committee  on,  ordered,      -  -  -       35 

"  appointed,  -  -  63 

Committee  on,  reported,        -  -  3S4 

Report  of  committee  on,  taken  up  in  com- 
mittee of  the  whole,  -  -  400 

Report  of  committee  on,  ordered  engrossed,  407 

"      read  a  third  time  and  adopted,      -     539 

Kemp,  Sam'l  A.  (delegate  from  Wabashaw) 

State  Officers,  otherthan  executive,  appoin- 
ted a  member  of  the  committee  on,  63 

Salaries,  appointed  chairman  of  committee 
on,  .  .  .  .63 

Educational  Institutions  and  Interests,  re- 
marks on,  -  -  249 

County  and  Township  Organization,  re- 
marks on,  ...         260 

Manner  of  voting  for  the  Constitution,  re- 
marks on,  -  -  523 

Authentication  of  the  Constitution,  resolu- 
tion for,  offered  by,  -  5S5 
King,  David  L.  (delegate  from  Olmsted) — 

Wish  of  the  people  to  become  a  State,  re- 
marks on,  -  •  -    12,  23 

Proposition  to  supply  the  members  ^with 
newspapers,  remarks  on,  -  45 

Remarks  on  inviting  members  to  present 
credentials,  -  -  60 

State  Officers  other  than  executive,  appoin- 
ted a  member  of  the  committee  on,  68 

Salaries,  appointed  a  member  of  the  com- 
mittee on,  -  -  68 

Preamble  and  Bill  of  Rights,  "remarks  on,       93 

Offers  a  resolution  of  inquiry  into  the  expe- 
diency of  inserting  a  registry  clause  in 
the  Constitution,  -  74 

Punishment  of  crimes,  remarks'on,  148 

Engrossment,  appointed  a  member  of  the 
committee  on,  -  197 

County  and  Township  Organization,  remarks 


on. 


267 


Banking,  and  Corporations  other  than  Mu- 
nicipal, remarks  on,  -  -  323 

Elective  Franchise,  remarks  on  report  of 
committee  on,  .  •  384 

Finance,  taxation  and  public  debt,  remarks 
on,  -  -  -         472 

Salt  Springs,  remarks  on  the  disposition  of,  491 

Navigable  waters,  remarks  on  the  subject  of,  512 

State  Officers,  remarks  on  the  time  of  the 
qualification  of,  -  535 

Remarks  on  the  three  months'  residence 
clause,  -  -  624 

C 


Kino,  David  L.,  (delegate  from  Olmsted) — 
Selected  as  chairman  of  the  committee  of 

the  whole,  -  -  543 

Remarks  on  the  report  of  the  committee  on 

Miscellaneous  Provisions,  .  552 

Printing  the  Debates  and  Proceedings,  re- 
marks on,  .  .  584 

Leave  of  Absence — 

Committee  on,  ordered,                  -  99 

Granted  to  Mr.  Cederstam,                -  182 

"            "    Thompson,             -  473 
Legislative  Depabtment — 

Committee  on,  ordered,                    -  35 

"            appointed,            .  -          68 

Report  of  committee  on,                   -  84 

Consideration  of  report,                  -  198 

Report  ordered  engrossed,            -  -        307 

"     read  a  third  time  and  adopted,  -     518 
Leu,  Gustav — 

Elected  Fireman  ^ro  tern,                  -  9 

"           "       permanently,  -          10 
Libel,  (or  Slander) — 
Proposition  to  amend  the    article  on  the 
Bill  of  Rights  so  that  the  jury  determine 

the  law  and  the  facts,                   -  158 

—  debate  on,                   -                    -  158-61 
Proposition  rejected,                  -  161 

Limitation  of  Discussion — 
Resolution  submitted  in  reference  to,       -        71 

—  discussion  of,  -  -        71-3 

—  adoption  of,  -  -  73 
Location  of  the  Capital — 

Resolution  of  Mr.  Mills  for,  -  537 

Substitute  for,  of  ilr.  Folsom,  -  539 

—  laid  on  the  table,  -  539 
Lowe,  Chables  F.,  (delegate  from  Chisago) — 

Invitation  to  all  delegates  to  present  their 
credentials,  remarks  on,  -  56 

Punishment  of  crimes,  appointed  a  member 
of  the  committee  on,  -  68 

Impeachments  and  removals,  appointed  a 
member  of  the  committee  on,  -  68 

Preamble  and  Bill  of  Rights,  remarks  on,  92, 113 

Banking,  &c.,  remarks  on,  -  141,  322 

Punishment  of  crimes,  remarks  on,       -        149 

State  Seal  and  Coat  of  Arms,  appointed  a 
member  of  committee  on,  -  182 

Educational  institutions  and  interests,  re- 
marks on,  -  •  239 

County  and  Township  Organization,  re- 
marks on,  .  .  271 

Judiciary,  remarks  on  the  report  of  the 
committee  on,  -  •  406 

Proposition  to  submit  the  question  of  State 
boundary  to  the  people,  remarks  on,  417 

Militia,  remarks  on  the  organization  of,    -     457 

Finance,  Taxation  and  Public  Debt,  re- 
marks on,  -  -         462, 4^2 

University  of  Minnesota,  remarks  on  the  lo- 
cation and  distribution  of  the  fund  of,        489 

Location  of  the  Capital  at  St.  Peter,  re- 
marks on,  -  -  521 


INDEX. 


Ltle,  Robeet,  (delegate  from  Mower) — 
Appointed  member  of  committee  on  the  ex- 
emption of  real  and  personal  estate  and 
the  rights  of  married  women,  -  68 

Supplies    and    expenditures,    appointed    a 

member  of  the  committee  on,  -  68 

Preamble  and  Bill  of  Eights,  remarks  on,      107 
Educational  Institutions  and  Interests,  re- 
marks on,  -  -  -         251 
Judiciary,  remarks  on,                    -  402 
Remarks  on  report  of  the  committee  on 

miscellaneous  provisions,  -  551 

Resolution  to  adjourn  sine  die,  August  27th, 
offered  bj,  -  -  583 

Mantor,  Frank,  (delegate  from  Dodge) — 

Wish  of  the  people  to  become  a  State,  re- 
marks on,  -  -  19 

Census  of  the  Territory,  resolution  relative 
to,  offered  by,  -  26 

Printing  the  rules,  resolution  for,  offered  by,  28 

Proposition  to  appoint  a  standing  committee 
on  State  boundary,  remarks  on,  -        88 

*  Proposition  to  supply  the  members  with 
newspapers,  remarks  on,  -  44 

Invitation  to  all  delegates  to  present  their 
credentials,  remarks  on,  -  57 

Internal  improvements,  appointed  a  mem- 
ber of  the  committee  on,  -  68 

Militia,  appointed  chairman  of  the  commit- 
tee on,  -  -  68 

Limitation  of  debate,  remarks  on  resolution 
for,  -  -  73 

Exemption  of  real  and  personal  property, 
remarks  on,  -  -  151 

Liquor  licenses,  remarks  on  proposition  for- 
ever prohibiting,  -  -  175 

Capital  punishment,  remarks  on,  -        190 

Engrossment,  resolution  for  a  standing  com- 
mittee on,  offered  by,  -  197 

—  Appointed  chairman  of  the  committee  on,  197 

Selected  as  chairman  of  the  committee  of 
the  whole,  -  -  198 

Proposition  to  submit  the  question  of  State 
boundary  to  the  people,  remarks  on,     -     226 

Striking  out  the  word  "white,"  remarks 
on,  -  -  338-40 

Civilized  persons  of  Indian  descent,  remarks 
on  the  question  of  extending  the  right  of 
suffrage  to,  -  -  393 

Proposition  to  submit  the  question  of  State 
boundary  to  the  people,  remarks  on,  414 

Payment  of  the  mileage  of  members,  reso- 
lution for  offered,  and  remarks  on  by,         449 

Militia,  remarks  on,  -  455 

Apportionment  of  representation,  remarks 
on  the,  -  -  626 

jlcgents  of  the  University,  remarks  on  the 
proposition  to  elect  by  the  people,  551 

Printing  the  debates  and  proceedings,  re- 
marks on,  -  -  560 

Extra  compensation  to  the  Secretary,  reso- 
lution for,  offered  by,  -  565 


Mantor,  Frank,  (delegate  from  Dodge) — 

Compromise  committee,  remarks  on  the  re- 
port of,  -  -  579 

Payment  of  members  and  officers,  remarks 
on,  -  -  591 

Extra  compensation  to  Messenger,  resolu- 
tion for,  offered  by,  -  589 
Married  Women,  Rights  of — 

Committee  on,  ordered,  -  35 

"  "    appointed,  -  6& 

Report  of  committee  on,  -  -       99 

Amendment  to  Bill  of  Rights  relative  to,        1 64 

"  adopted,  -  174 

McOann,  Jos.  A.  (delegate  from  Houston) — 

Appointed  a  member  of  the  Judiciary  com- 
mittee, -  -  68- 

Miscellaneous  Provisions,  appointed  a  mem- 
ber of  the  committee  on,  -  68- 
McOlure,  Ciias.  (delegate  from  Goodhue) — 

Wish  of  the  people  to  become  a  State,  re- 
marks on,  -  -  13,  16 

Remarks  on  resolution  inviting  members  to 
present  credentials,  -  64 

Organization  of  Cities  and  Villages,  appoin- 
ted a  member  of  the  crmmittee  on,  68' 

Appointed  a  member  of  the  Judiciary  com- 
mittee, -  -  68 

Appointed  a  member  of  the  committee  on 
banks,  -  -  .  .  68 

Arrangement  and  phraseology,  appointed 
chairman  of  the  committee  on,  68 

Preamble  and  Bill  of  Rights,  remarks  on 
report  of  committee  on,  .  .     94 

Election  returns,  resolution  to  procure  cer- 
tified copy  of,  offered  by,  -  88 

Libel  or  Slander,  in  actions  for,  jurors  to  be 
judges  of  the  law  and  the  fact,  remarks  on,  159 

Rights  of  Married  Women,  remarks  on,         173 

Taking  private  property  for  public  uses,  re- 
marks on,  -  -  184 

Conduct  of  the  Democrats,  resolution  rela- 
tive to,  offered  by,  -  196 

Selected  as  chairman  of  the  committee  of 
the  whole,  .  .  230 

Organization  of  the  Convention,  speech 
on,  -  -  287-96 

Banking,  &c.,  remarks  on,  .  823 

Impeachment  and  removal  from  office,  re- 
marks on,  -  -  -         833 

Striking  out  the  word  "white,"  remarks 
on,  .  .  .  361 

Substitute  of  Mr.  Foster's,  to  section  one, 
of  the  report  of  the  committee  on  the 
elective  franchise,  remarks  on,  -         878 

Amendments  to  the  Constitution,  remarks 
on,  -  -  888 

Appointed  a  member  of  the  compromise 
conmiittee,  -  -  -  410 

Remarks  on  referring  the  question  of  State 
Boundary  to  the  people,  .  437 

University  of  Minnesota,  remarks  on  the 
location  and  distribution  of  the  fund  of,      495 


te« 


INDEX. 


McClvre,  Chas.  (delegate  from  Goodhue) — 

Remarks  on  the  report  of  the  compromise 
committee,  .  .  .  573-7 

Remarks  on  the  payment  of  members  and 
officers,  .  .  591 

McKuxE,  Lewis,  (delegate  from  Waseca) — 

Proposition  of  Congress,  resolution  relative 
to,  offered  bv,  -  -  46 

Public  property  and  expenditures,  appomt- 
ed  a  member  of  the  committee  on,        -        68 

Miscellaneous  provisions,  appointed  a  mem- 
ber of  the  committee  on,  -  68 

Boundary  of  the  State,  remarks  on  the  sub- 
stitute for  the  report  of  the  committee  on,  221 

Educational  Institutions  and  Interests,  re- 
mai-ks  on,  -  -  230 

County  and  Township  organizations,  re- 
marks on,  -  -  -         262 

Finance,  Taxation,  and  Public  Debt,  re- 
marks on,  -  -  463 

Internal  improvements,  remarks  on  report 
of  committee  on,  -  475 

Assault  on  Mr.  Wn-sox,  remarks  on,        -      559 

Compromise  committee,  remarks  on  the  re- 
port of,  -  -  580 
Messesger — 

B.  L.  Sellers  elected^©  ton,  -  9 

"  "    permanently,         -  10 

"  resigned  the  office  of,        -  34 

W.  H.  Shellet,  elected,  -  35 

—  extra  pay  voted  to,  -  589 

Messer,  B.  E.,  (delegate  from  McLeod) — 
Preamble  and  Bill  of  Rights,  appointed  a 

member  of  the  committee  on,  -  63 

Educational  institutions  and  interests,  ap- 
pointed chairman  of  the  committee  on,        68 

—  Remarks  on,  -  247 
Impeachments  and  removal  from  office,  ap- 
pointed chairman  of  the  committee  on,         68 

Elections  and  credentials,  appointed  mem- 
ber of  the  committee  on,  -  68 

County  and  township  organization,  remarks 
on,  -  -  259 

Striking  out  the  word  "  white,"  remarks 
on,  -  -  -  -     337-8 

Civilized  persons  of  Indian  descent,  re- 
marks on  proposition  to  extend  the  elec- 
tive franchise  to,  -  394 

Printing  boundary  resolntion,  remarks  on,     445 

Compromise  committee,  remarks  on  the 
report  of,  .  .  .     579 

Mills,  "Wiluam   H.,   (delegate    from  Olm- 
sted)— 

Presents  his  credentials,  -  27 

Appointed  a  member  of  the  committee  on 

educational  institutions  and  interests,  68 

Public  property  and  expenditures,  appoint- 
ed a  member  of  the  committee  on,        -        68 
Object  of  a  constitution,  resolution  declaring 

the  fundamental,  offered  by,  -  152 

Preamble  and  Bill  of  Rights,  remarks  on  195 


Mills,  William  H.,  (delegate  from  Olmsted.) 
Selected  as  chairman  of  the  committee  of 

the  Whole,  .  .  387 

Judiciary,  remarks  on  the  report  of  the 

committee  on,  -  -  406 

Finance,  Taxation  and  Public  Debt,  remarks 

on,  -  -  -  -     472 

Manner  of  voting  for  the  Constitntion,  re- 
marks on,  -  -  528 
Location  of  the  Capitol,  submits  a  resolu- 
tion for,                -                      -  537 
MnjTiA — 
Committee  on,  ordered,            .             .  35 
"            appointed,  68 
Report  of  committee  on,           .                      417 
Consideration  of  Report,               -                  454 
Report  ordered  engrossed,               .               462 

—  read  a  third  time  and  adopted,  .        537 
Miscellaneous  Provisions — 

Committee  on  ordered,  .  36 

"  "  appointed,        .  •     68 

Report  of  committee  on,  •  538 

—  taken  up  in  committee  of  the  Whole,         543 

—  ordered  engrossed,  .  553^ 
j  Morgan,  David  (delegate  fit)m  Heimepin) — 

Executive  department,  appointed  a  member 

of  the  committee  on,  -  68 

Punishment  of  Crimes,  appointed  a  mem- 
ber of  the  committee  on,  -  68 
Organization  of  Cities  and  villages,  appoin- 
ted chairman  of  committee  on,           -  i§ 
Selected  as  chairman  of  the  committee  of 

the  whole,  -  -  127 

Punishment  of  crimes,  remarks  on,        .        14& 
Exemption  of  Real  and  Personal  Estate, 

remarks  on,  -  149 

Slander  or  libel,  in  actions  for,  jurors  to  be 

judges  of  the  law  and  the  fact,  remarks  on,  161 
Agricultural  lands,  remarks  on  leases  of,  161 
Legislative  Department,  remarks  on,  20O 

Educational  Institutions  and  Interests,  re- 
marks on  the  report  of  the  committee  on,   238 
State  officers  other  than  executive,  remarks 

on,  -  -  284 

Banking,  &c.,  remarks  on,  -  316 

Striking  out  the  word   "  white,"  remarks 

on,  '  -  -  343 

Elective  franchise,  remarks  on,  -  382 

Amendments  to  the  Constitntion,  remarks 

on,  -  -  387 

Printing  boundary  resolutions,  remarks  on,  443 
Militia,  remarks  on  the  organization  of,  461 

Finance,  Taxation    and   Public    Debt,  re- 
marks on,  -  .  -         4g3 
Public  Property,  remarks  on  the  report  of 

the  committee  on,  -  -  475 

Common  highways,  navigable  waters,  re- 
marks on,  -  .  477 
University  of  Minnesota,  remarks  on  the 

location  and  distribution  of  the  fund  of,  487 
Escheats,  remarks  on  the  subject  of,  .  493 
State  officers,  remarks  on  the  time  of  the 


INDEX. 


Morgan,  David,  (delegate  from  Hennepin) — 
qualifications  of,  -  521 

Apportionment  of  representation,  remarks 
on,  .  .  .  527 

Remarks  on  the  report  of  the  committee  on 
Miscellaneous  Provisions,  -  543 

Election  of  Regents  of  the  University  by  the 
people,  remarks  on  proposition  for,  546 

Printing  the  Debates  and  Proceedings,  re- 
marks on,  -  -  560 

MuRPiiY,  J.  H.  (delegate  from  St.  Anthony) 
Elective  Franchise,  appointed  a  member  of 

committee  on,  .  .     68 

Public  Property  and  Expenditures,  appoin- 
ted a  member  of  the  committee  on,  68 
Legislative  Department,  remarks  on,              207 
Striking  out  the  word  "white,"  remarks  on,  347 
Apportionment  of  Representation,  remarks 
on,                      -                      -                     527 
Neill,  E.  D.— 
Elected  Chaplain,            -                       -            10 
Communication  from,                  -                        28 

—  read  and  filed,  -  -  46 
Newspapers — 

Resolution  relative  to  the  supply  of,  to  the 
members,  -  -  40 

—  discussion  of,  -  40-6 

—  referred  to  select  committee,  46 

—  Report  of  committee  on,  .  47 
Officers  allowed,                         -  81 

North,  J.  TV.  (delegate  from  Rice) — 
Convention  called  to  order  by,  -  9 

Committee  on  Credentials,  appointed  chair- 
man of,  -  -  9 
Substitute  to  resolution  on  the  wish  of  the 

people  to  become  a  State,  offered  by,  21 

— •  remarks  on,  -  -  21-2 

Resolution  to  admit  Mr.  Sheldon  to  a  seat, 

remarks  on,  -  -  29,  33 

Resolution  of  Invitation  to  delegates  to 
present  their  credentials,  .  56 

—  remarks  on,  .  .  58 
Resolution  for  the  employment  of  a   Re- 
porter, offered  by,                      .  66 

Legislative  Department,  appointed  chair- 
man of  the  committee  on,  .  68 

Elective  Franchise,  appointed  a  men:ber  of 
committee  on,  .  68 

Arrangement  and  phraseology,  appointed 
a  member  of  the  committee  on,  .         68 

Judiciary,  appointed  a  member  of  the  com- 
mittee on,  -  -  68 

Supplies  and  Expenditures,  appointed  a 
member  of  the  committee  on,  -  68 

Limitation  of  discussion,  remarks  on,  73 

Preamble  and  Bill  of  Rights,  remarks  on 
the  report  of  the  committee  on,  .        90 

Selected  as  chairman  of  the  committee  of 
the  Whole,  .  .    13,128,280 

Exemption  of  Real  and  Personal  Estate, 
remarks  on,  .  .  150 


North,  J.  W.,  (delegate  from  Rice) — 
The  rights  of  married  women,  remarks  on,    170 
Taking  Private  Property  for  public  uses,  re- 
remarks  on,  .  .  184 
Legislative  Department,  remarks  on  the  re- 
port of  the  committee  on,             .               200 
Educational  institutions  and  interests,  re- 
marks on,                   -                   -           236, 238 
County  and  township  organization,  remarks 

on,  .  .  277 

Organization    of    the    convention,    speech 

on,  -  -  296-807 

Banking,  remarks  on  the'  report  of  the  com- 
mittee on,  -  -  330 
Striking  out  the  word  "white,"  speech  on,  347-60 
Remarks  on  Mr.  Foster's  substitute  to  sec- 
tion one  for  the  report  of  the  committed 
on  elective  franchise,                      -  375 
Remarks  on  report  of  the  committee  on  State 

seal  and  coat  of  arms,  -  411,  518 

Proposition  to  submit  the  question  of  Boun- 
dary to  the  people,  remarks  on,  -        436 
Printing  boundary  resolutions,  remarks  on,  445 
Militia,  remarks  on  the  report  of  the  com- 
mittee on,                   -                  -  455 
University  of  Minnesota,  remarks  on  the 

location  and  distribution  of  the  fund  of,  481 
Reconsideration  of  vote  relative  to  the  Uni- 
versity, remarks  on,  -  499 
Navigable  waters,  remarks  on  the  subject  of,  510 
Manner  of  voting  for  the  constitution,  re- 
marks on,                   -                  -  52S 
Qualification  of  State  officers,  remarks  on,    532 
Compromise  committee,  remarks  on  the  re- 
port of,                      -                      -              579 
Resolution  relative  to  the  payment  of  mem- 
bers and  officers,  offered  by,                   -      590 
—  Remarks  on,               -                  -               590 
Official  Reporter — 
Committee  appointed  to  employ,           -  28 
"           employ  T.  F.  Andrews,         -        66 
Resolution  relative  to  the  payment  of,            %6 
"                  "    discount  on  orders  for,    586 
Organization — 
Temporary  organization  of  the  convention,       9 
Permanent           "               "              "  10 
Of  Representative  bodies,  resolution  of  Mr. 

FoLSOM,  -  -  82 

Of  the  convention,  speech  of  Mr.  Foster,  29-33 

"  "  "    Mr.  CoGGSWBLL,  74-8 

"  "  "    Mr.  Balcombe,  115-27 

"  "    Mr.  McClurb,  287-96 

"  "  "    Mr.  North,     299-307 

Organization  op  Cities,  &c, — 

Committee  on,  ordered,  -  85 

"  "   appointed,  -  68 

Report  of  committee  on,  -  -     127 

"    taken  up  in  committee  of  the  whole,  230 

"    stricken  out,  -  -    280 

Owens  &  Moore  — 

Elected  printers  to  the  convention,        -  88 

Resolution  relative  to  the  payment  of,  586 


INDEX. 


ini 


Pavmext  of  Members — 

Resolution  of  Mr.  Maxtor,  relative  to,  449 

"  laid  on  the  table,  -  454 

"         of  Mr.  BiLLDCGS  relative  to,  584 

"         laid  on  the  table,  -  584 

Peckham,  Jos.,  (delegate  from  Goodhue,) — 

Invitation  to  all  delegates  to  present  their 
credentials,  remarks  on,  -  62 

Finance,  Taxation  and  Public  Debt,  appoint- 
ed a  member  of  committee  on,  C8 

Exemption  of  real  and  personal  estate  and 
rights  of  married  women,  appointed  a 
member  of  committee  on,  -  68 

Executive  department,  remarks  on  the  re- 
port of  the  committee  on,  -  131 

Exemption  of  real  and  personal  estate,  re- 
marks on,  -  -  150 

Engrossment,  appointed  chairman  of  ihe 
mittee  on,  -  -  197 

Educational  Institutions  and  Interests,  re- 
marks on,  -  -  235 

Resolution  for  printing  the  constitution,  of- 
fered by,  -  -  537 

Election  of  Regents  of  the  University  by 
the  people,  remarks  on  proposition  for,       550 

Pebkixs,  Oscab  F.,  (delegate  from  Rice,) — 

Wish  of  the  people  to  become  a  State,  re- 
marks on.  -  -  19 

Newspapers,  resolution  for  the  supply  of, 
offered  by,  -  -  40 

—  Remarks  on,  -  44 

Accepting  the  proposition  of  Congress,  re- 
solution relative  to,  oflFered  by,  -  66 

State  boundaries,  selected  as  Chairman  of 
the  committee  on,  -  68 

Internal  Improvements,  appointed  a  mem- 
ber of  the  committee  on,  -  68  j 

Resolution  of  inquiry  ofiFered  by,  whether  I 

the  Assessors,  have  taken  the  number  of 
inhabitants,  .  .  74 

Resolution  granting  the  use  of  the  Hall  to 
Dr.  Roberts,  ofiFered  by,  .  108 

Preamble  and  Bill  of  Rights,  remarks  on,  100, 114 

Executive  department,  remarks  on  the  re- 
port of  the  committee  on,  .  130 

Rights  of  Married  Women,  remarks  on,         172 

Taking  private  property  for  public  uses, 
remarks  on,  .  .  183 

Educational  Institutions  and  Interests,  re- 
marks on,  .  .  234 

Banking,  Ac,  remarks  on,  .  318 

Striking  out  the  word  "white,"  remarks 
on,  .  .  371-5 

Elective  Franchise,  remarks  on,  -         386 

Civilized  persons  of  Indian  descent,  remarks 
on  proposition  to  extend  the  elective  fran- 
chise to,  -  -  -  393 

Boundaries  of  the  State,  proposition  to  refer 
the  question  of,  to  the  people,  .  428 

Location  of  the  Capital  at  St.  Peter,  re- 
marks on,  .  .  531 
D 


Perkins,  Oscab  F.,  (delegate  from  Rice) — 

Manner  of  voting  on  the  Constitution,  re- 
marks on,  .  .  525 

Apportionment  of  representation,  remarks 
on,  -  -  529 

Qualifications  of  State  OflScers,  remarks  on,  534 

Printing  Debates  and  Proceedings,  remarks 
on, 

Compromise  committee,  remarks  on  the 
report  of,  ,  .  567 

Payment  of  members  and  officers,  remarks 
on,  -  -  695 

Personal  Explanation — 
Remarks  of  Mr.  Hatdex,  .  452 

"  "    WiLSOx,  .  ,         560 

Petition — 

Of  L.  H.  Bond,  and  others,  citizens  of 
Dodge  county,  .  .  87 

Phelps,  Botd,  (delegate  from  Mower,) — 
Presents  his  credentials,  -  4€ 

Appointed  member  of  committee  on  the  ex- 
emption of  real  and  personal  estate  and 
the  rights  of  married  women,  -  68 

Public  property  and  expenditures,  appoint 

ed  a  member  of  committee  on,  -  68 

Engrossment,  appointed  a  member  of  the 

committee  on,  63 

Closes  the  Convention  with  prayer,         -       696 

Preamble  and  Bill  of  Rights — 

Committee  on,  ordered,  8fi 

"            "    appointed,                  -  68 

Report  of  committee  on,             -  -       78 

—  taken  up  in  committee  of  the  whole,  88,  100, 

[109,  127 
Substitute  for  proposed,  -  15$ 

Special  report  of  committee  on,  259 

Read  a  third  time  and  adopted,  -  504 

President  of  the  Convention — 

President  pro  tern  elected,  9 

*'        elected  permanentij,  -          10 

Vote  of  thanks  to,  -              587 

Remarks  on  the  adjoornment,  -            696 

Printing — 

Committee  on,  ordered,  ss 

Of  the  Enabling  Act,  ordered,             -  if) 

Of  the  Convention,  resolution  relative  to,  46 

Of  the  reports,  ordered,                  -  80 

Election  of  printer,  "           -                      -  82 

OwEXS  k  MooRK  elected  printers,        -  88 

Of  the  Constitution,  ordered,               -  637 

Of  the  Proceedings  and  Debates,  resolution  * 

for,  offered,                  -                   -  650 

—  Resolution  adopted,                  -  584 
Of  the  Journal,  ordered,                  -  688 

Proposition  of  Congress — 
(See  Acceptance.) 


XIV 


INDEX. 


Public  Pbopebty — 

Committee  on,  ordered,     •           -           -  86 

"          appointed,              -            -  68 

Report  of  the  committee  on,               -  84 

Consideration  of  report,                  -  MO 

Report  read  a  third  time  and  adopted,      -  558 

Punishment  of  Crimes — 

Committee  on,  ordered,                   -  86 

"           appointed,           .             -  68 

Report  of  committee  on,                   -  87 

Consideration  of  report,                   -  147 

Report  re-committed,                    -  149 

Putnam,  S.  W.,  (delegate  from  St.  Antho- 
ny,)— 

Legislative  Department,  appointed  a  mem- 
ber ol  the  committee  on,                -  68 
State  Boundaries,  appointed  a  member  of 
the  committee  on,                      -  68 

Begistby  Clause — 

Resolution  of  Mr.  King  relative  to  a,  74 

Reporting — 

Special  committee  on,  appointed,            -  28 

• —  Report  of,                   -                  -  66 

Resolutions — 
Relative  to  the  wish  of  the  people  to  become 

a  State,  -  -  11 
Substitutes  for,  -  IS,  18,  21,  25 
Relative  to  the  census  of  the  Territory,  26 
Substitute  for,  -  -  27 
Relative  to  printing  the  Rules,  -  28 
Admitting  Charles  B.  Sheldon  to  a  seat,  28 
Relative  to  the  use  of  the  Territorial  Li- 
brary, -  -  89 
For  the  supply  of  Stationery,  -  40 
To  print  the  Enabling  Act,  -  40 
For  the  supply  of  Newspapers,  -  40,  47 
Accepting  the  Proposition  of  Congress,  46 
Relative  to  incidental  printing,  -  46 
To  procure  a  certified  copy  of  the  Legisla- 
tive Act,  authorizing  the  formation  of  a 
Constitution,  -  -  49 
Relative  to  officeholders  in  the  Convention,  53 
For  the  admission  of  all  members  on  terms 

of  equality,                   -                    -  56 

To  delay  the  appointment  of  committees,  57 

To  wait  upon  the  United  States  Marshal,  65 

For  the  employment  of  a  Reporter,  66 
Substitute  to,  accepting  the  proposition  of 

Congress,                .                      .  66 

To  limit  discussion,             -  71 
Of  inquiry,  whether  the  Assessors  of  the 
Territory  have  filed  lists  of  the  inhabitants,  74 
•  Of  inquiry  into  the  expediency  of  a  registry 
clause,        f            .                     .74 

For  holding  one  session  per  day,          .  74 
To  furnish  officers  of  the  Convention  with 

newspapers,           .                      ,  81 
Relative  to  the  organization  of  representa- 
tive bodies,           .                     .  S3 


Resolutions — 

To  procure  a  certified  copy  of  the  returns  of 

the  late  election,  .  .  88 

For  a  committee  on  leave  of  absence,  99 

Granting  the  use  of  the  Hall  to  Rev.  Dr. 

Roberts,  .  .  108 

Declaring  the  fundamental  object  of  a  Con- 
stitution, .  .  152 
For  a  standing  committee  on  Engrossment,  197 
To  adjourn  sine  die  on  the  seventh  of  August,  197 
Relative  to  equal  suffrage,  .  367 
To  adjourn  sine  die,  August  thirteenth,  400 
Referring  the  question  of  Boundary  to  the 

people,  .  .  408 

For  the  appointment  of  a  compromise  com- 
mittee, .  .  410 
Directing  the  Secretary  to    communicate 
compromise  resolutions  to  the  Democratic 
Convention,                .                       .              441 
To  submit  the  question  of  Negro  Suffrage,    440 
Relative  to  the  payment  of  the  mileage  of 

members,  .  .  449 

To  print  the  Constitution, '      .  .     537 

To  submit  the  location  of  the  Capital  to  the 

people,  .  .  537 

Substitute  for  the  same,        .  .  537 

To  adjourn  sine  die,  August  twenty-seventh,  558 
Relative  to  the  assault  upon  Mr.  Wilson,  554 
To  print  the  Debates  and  Proceedings,  559 

Relative  to  the  expenses  of  the  Convention,  565 
Allowing  extra  compensation  to  the  Secre- 
tary, -  -  565 
Relative  to  the  report  of  the  Compromise 

Committee,  -  -  583 

Relative  to  the  payment  of  the  members,  584, 586 
Relative  to  enrolling  the  Constitution,  584 

Relative  to  authenticating  the  Constitution,  58g 
Relative  to  printing  the  Journal,  -         585 

To  audit  the  accounts  of  official  reporter,  586 
To  audit  the  accounts  of  Owens  &  Moorb,  586 
Relative  to  the  certificates  of  the  Democrat- 
ic members,  -  -  586 
Relative  to  signing  the  Constitution,  586 
Relative  to  the  pay  of  the  Reporter,  586 
Of  thanks  to  the  President  and  officers  of 

the  Convention,  -  587 

Relative  to  translating  the  Constitution,  587 
Granting  extra  pay  to  Assistant  Sergeant- 

at-Arms,  -  -  687 

Relative  to  certain  expenses,  •  587 

Adopting  the  enrolled  report  of  the  commit- 
tee of  Conference,  -  688 
To  transcribe  the  Constitution  on  parchment,  589 
Granting  extra  pay  to  the  Sergeant,  at- Arms,  589 
For  extra  pay  to  members,  -  689 
Granting  extra  pay  to  the  Assistant  Secre- 
tary, -  •  689 
Granting  extra  compensation  to  Messenger,  689 
Respecting  the  payment  of  members  and 

officers,  -  -  690 

Relative  to  the  conduct  of  the  Democratic 
Convention,  -  •  595 


INDEX. 


xr 


RoBBiNS,  Nathak  B.,  (delegate  from  Olm- 
sted,)— 

Wish  of  the  people  to  become  a  State,  re- 
marks on,  -  -  14, 21 
Internal  Improvements,  appointed  chairman 

of  the  committee  on,  -  68 

Schedule,  appointed  a  member  of  the  com- 

miitee  on,  -  -  6S 

Selected  as  chairman  of  the  committee  of 

the  Whole,  -  -  S90 

Assault  on  Mr.  Wilsox,  remarks  on,        -      554 
Printing  the  Debates  and  Proceedings,  re- 
marks on,  -  -  559 
Report  of  Conference  committee,  remarks 

on,  -  -  570 

Resolution  granting  extra  compensation  to 
Assistant  Secretary,  oflFered  bv,  -        6S9 

RtLES  OF  Proceeding — 

Committee  appointed  to  report  on,           -  11 
Of  last  House  of  Representatives  adopted 

temporarily,                  -                  -  11 

Report  of  committee  on,                  -  27 

Two  hundred  copies  of,  ordered  printed,  28 

Amendment  proposed  to,                  -  232 

Russell,  William  F.,  (delegate  from  Hen- 
nepin,)— 

County    and    Township    Organization,   ap- 
pointed a  member  of  the  committee  on,        68 
Enrollment,    appointed  a  member  of  the 

committee  on,  -  -  221 

State  OflBcers,  other  than  executive,  remarks 
on,  -  -  284 

Salaries — 

Committee  on,  ordered,  -                  36 

"             appointed,  -               68 

Report  of  committee  on,  -              837 
Report  on,  taken  up  in  committee  of  the 

whole,                    -  -                   390 

Ordered  engrossed,  -                    891 

Read  a  third  time  and  adopted,  -           537 

Salt  Spkixgs — 
Debate  relative  to  the  disposition  of,  490 

Schedule — 

Committee  on,  ordered,            .  .            36 

"           appointed,  .                  68 

Report  of  committee  on,           .  .          504 

Taken  up  in  committee  of  the  Whole,  520 

Report  ordered  engrossed,  .               536 

Reported  correctly  engrossed,  .           537 

Seal  axd  Coat  of  Arms — 

Committee  on  ordered,  .              182 

"            "  appointed,  .                     •     182 

Report  of  committee  on,  •               336 

—  taken  up  in  committee  of  the  Whole,  411 

—  ordered  engrossed,  .                    504 
Report  recommitted,  .               520 

—  reported  back,            .  .                .        520 
Substitute  for  adopted,  .             .           637 


87 


41 


63 


63 


Secombe,  D.  a.  (delegate  from  St.  An- 
thony)— 

Proposition  to  appoint  standing  committee 
on  State  Boundary,  remarks  on. 

Proposition  to  furnish  the  Convention  with 
newspapers,  remarks  on. 

Act  of  the  Legislature  authorizing  the  Con- 
vention, remarks  on, 

—  Resolution  relative  to,  oflFered  by, 

'Appointed  Chairman  of  the  committee  on 
Public  Property, 

Banking,  Ac,  appointed  a  member  of  the 
committee  on,        .... 

Preamble  and  Bill  of  Rights,  remarks  on 
the  report  of  the  committee  on,        .      92,118 

Executive  Department,  remarks  on  the  re- 
port of  the  committee  on,  .  139 

Banking,  &c.,  remarks  on  the  report  of  the 
committee  on,  .  .  .       141,309 

Libel  or  Slander,  in  actions  for,  jurors  to  be 
judges  of  the  law  and  the  fact,  remarkson,  160 

Rights  of  Married  Women,  remarks  on,         163 

Taking  private  property  for  public  uses,  re- 
marks on,  -  -  187 

Legislative  Department,  remarks  on  the  re- 
port of  the  conmaittee  on,  .  200 

The  St.  Anthony  delegates,  speech  on  the 
regularity  of  the  election  of,  .        209-19 

County  and  township  organization,  remarks 
on. 

State  officers  other  than  executiTe,  remarks 
on. 

Impeachment  and  removal  from  oflBce,  re- 
marks on,  ... 

Substitute  of  ^r.  Foster's,  to  section  one, 
of  the  report  of  the  committee  on  the 
elective  franchise,  remarks  on. 

Judiciary,  remarks  on  the  report  of  the 
committee  on. 

Resolution  for  the  payment  of  members,  re- 
marks on,  ... 

Proposition  to  submit  the  question  of  Boun- 
dary to  the  people,  remarks  on, 

Navigable  waters,  remarks  on  the  subject 
of,  -  -  -  477,511 

University  of  Minnesota,  remarks  on  the 
location  and  distribution  of  the  fund  of,  479,502 

Salt  Springs,  remarks  on  disposition  of,         490 

Escheats,  remarks  on  the  subject  of,        .       492 

Reconsideration  of  vote  relative  to  the 
Uuiversity,  remarks  on,  -  493 

Manner  of  voting  for  the  constitution,  re- 
marks on,  •  •  660 

Qualitication  of  State  officers,  remarks  on,    633 

Apportionment  of  representation,  remarks 
on  the,  -  -  -  626 

Regents  of  the  University,  remarks  on  the 
proposition  to  elect  by  the  people,  543 

Assault  on  Mr.  Wilsox,  remarks  on,        -      556 

Compromise  committee,  remarks  on  the  re- 
port©^ -  .  Sli 


262 


286 


SS3 


377 


401 


449 


469 


tvi 


INDEX. 


Secombe,    D.   a.,  (delegate    from    St.    An- 
thony)— 

Resolution  relative  to  the  payment  of  mem- 
bers and  officers,  remarks  on,  -  590 

Offers  resolution  relative  to  the  enrolled 
copy  of  the  Constitution,  -  583 

Secretary  of  the  Convention — 

L.  A.  Babcock,  elected  pro  tern,  -             9 

"                "        permanently,  -        .10 

Extra  compensation  allowed  to,  -         525 

Sellers,  B.  L. — 

Elected  Messenger,  pro  tern.  -                 9 

"               "           permanently,  -           10 

Resigned  the  office  of,              -  -         34 

Sergeant-at-Arms — 

Wm.  Fosteh,  elected  pro  tern.  -              7 

"               "        permanently,  -         10 

Extra  pay  to,                    -                 -  589 

Settler  on  School  Lands — 

Amendment  to  report  of  committee  on  Ed- 
ucational Institutions,  &c.,  respecting,        255 
Amendment  rejected,  -  258 

SnELDON,  Charles  B.,  (delegate  from  Hen- 
nepin,)— 

Opened  the  Convention  with  prayer,        -  11 
Submits  his  petition  for  a  seat,             -  27 
Report  on  petition,               -                   -  28 
—  re-referred  to  committee,                  -  83 
Second  report  of  committee,                  -  52 
Admitted  to  a  seat,                      -  53 
Legislative  Uepariment,  appointed  a  mem- 
ber of  the  committee  on,                 -  68 
Schedule,  appointed  a  member  of  the  com- 
mittee on,                      -                      -  68 
Educational  Institutions  and  Interests,  re- 
marks on  the  report  of  committee  on,  233 

Shelley,  Wm.  H. — 

Elected  Sergeant-at-Arms  j>ro<CT»,  -         27 

"     Messenger,                      -  85 

Extra  pay  voted  to,               •  -        689 

Smith,  T.  D.,  (delegate  from  Carver,) — 
Preamble  and  Bill  of  Rights,  appointed  a 

member  of  committee  on,  -  68 

Exemption  of  Real  and  Personal  Estate, 

and  Rights  of  Married  Women,  appointed 

a  member  of  committee  on,  -  68 

—  Remarks  on,  -  -  160 

Apportionment  of  Representation,  remarks 

on,  •     .  -  627 


Standing  Committees — 

Resolution  in  reference  to, 
Report  of  committee  on, 
Appointment  of. 
List  of,  ordered  printed, 


78 


Stannard,  L.  K.,  (delegate  from  Chisago,) — 
Offers  resolution  relative  to  the  wish  of  the 

people  to  become  a  State,  -  11 

—  Remarks  on,  -  -        11, 25 

Proposition  to   supply  the   members  with 

newspapers,  remarks  on,  -  45 

Finance,  Taxation  and  Public  Debt,  appoint- 
ed chairman  of  the  committee  on,        -        68 
Legislative  Department,  appointed  a  mem- 
ber of  the  committee  on,  -  68 
Boundaries,   appointed    a  member  of  the 

committee  on,  -  -  68 

Judiciary,  appointed  a  member  of  the  com- 
mittee on,  -  -  68 
Selected  as  chairman  of  the  committee  of 

the  whole,  -  83,  111,  308 

Executive  Department,  remarks  on,        -        137 
Legislative  Department,  remarks  on,  205 

State  Boundaries,  remarks  on,  -  225 

Educational  Institutions  and  Interests,  re- 
marks on,  -  -  233 
Rights  of  Settlers  on  School  Lands,  remarks 

on,  -  -  257 

County  and  Township  Organization,  remarks 

on,  -  -  261 

Banking,  &c.,  remarks  on  the  report  of  the 

committee  on,  -  -  322 

Substitute  of  Mr.  Foster's,  to  section  one, 
of  the  report  of  the  committee  on  the 
elective  franchise,  remarks  on,  -         377 

Elective  Franchise,  remarks  on  the  report 

of  the  committee  on,  -  383 

Appointed  a  member  of  the  committee  of 

Compromise,  -  411 

Proposition  to  submit  the  question  of  State 

boundary  to  the  people,  remarks  on,  423 

Finance,   Taxation,   and  Public    Debt,   re- 
marks on,  -  -  471 
Reconsideration  of  a  certain  vote  relative  to 

the  University,  -  497 

Navigable  waters,  remarks  on  the  subject  of,  511 
State  Officers,  remarks  on  the  time  of  the 

qualification  of,  -  520 

Assault  on  Mr.  Wilson,  remarks  on,       -      554 
Compromise  committee,  remarks  on  the  re- 
port of,  .  -  569 
Resolution  for  transcribing  the  Constitution, 

offered  by  .  .  533 

Extra  compensation    to    the    Sergeant-at- 
Arms,  resolution  for,  oflFered  by,         .        589 

St.  Anthony  Delegates — 
Remarks  of  Mr.  Sbcombk  on  the  regularity 
of  the  election  of,  .  .  209-11 

Stationery — 
Resolution  in  relation  to,  adopted,  .  40 

Report  of  committee  of  supplies  and  ex- 
penditures on,  .  82 

State  Officers  other  than  Executive — 
Committee  on,  ordered,  .  85 


INDEX. 


xvn 


State  Officers  other  thas  Executive — 
Committee  on  appointed,  .  68 

Report  of  committee  on,  .  220 

Consideration  of  report,  .  281 

Report  ordered  engrossed,  .  286 

—  read  a  third  time  and  adopted,  537 

Supplies  and  Expexditubes — 
Conunittee  on,  ordered,  .  39 

"  appointed,  .  68 

Report  of  committee  on   furnishing   Sta- 

tionerr,  .  .  82 

Report  of  committee  on  certain  bills,  jadopt- 
ed,  .  .  535 

Territorial  Library — 

Resolution  in  relation  to,  adopted,  40 

Thompson-,    C.   W.,   (delegate    from    Hous- 
ton,)— 

Appointed  chairman  of  the  committee  on 
Township  Organization,  .  63 

Educational  Institutions  and  Interests,  ap- 
pointed a  member  of  the  committee  on,        68 

Banking,  4c.,  appointed  a  member  of  the 
committee  on,  .  .  63 

Selected  as  chairman  of  the  committee  of 
the  whole,  .  221,  417,  537 

Leave  of  absence  granted  to,  .  493 

UXIVERSITT   OF   MINNESOTA  — 

Consideration  of  the  subject  of,  in  report  on 
public  property,  .  477 

Vaughn,  Alanson  B.,  (delegate  from  Mow- 
ers- 
Appointed  on  committee  on  Credentials,  9 
Executive  Department,  appointed  a  member 

of  committee  on,  .  68 

Amendment  of  the  Constitution,  appointed 

a  member  of  committee  on,  '  .  63 

Walker,  L.  C,  (delegate  from  St.  Antho- 
ny,)— 
Appointed  a  member  of  the  committee  on 

Internal  Improvements,  .  68 

Appointed  a  member  of  the  committee  on 

Elections  and  Credentials,  .  68 

Ward,  J.  Q.  A.— 

Elected  Assistant  Secretary  ^ro  tern,  .         9 

"      permanent  Secretary,              .  10 

Extra  pay  voted  to,               .  .        589 

Watson,  Geo.,  (delegate  from  Freeborn,) — 

Preamble  and  Bill  of  Rights,  appointed  a 
member  of  the  committee  on,  .  68 

Salaries,  appointed  a  member  of  the  com- 
mittee on,  .  .  68 

Selected  as  chairman  of  the  committee  of 
the  whole,  .  147, 520,  543 

Judiciary,  remarks  on  the  report  of  the 
committee  on,  .  403 


Watson,  Geo.,  (delegate  from  Freeborn) — 
Apportionment  of  Representation^  remarks 


on. 


527 


Winell,  p.,  (delegate  from  St.  Anthony,) — 

Preamble  and  Bill  of  Rights,  appointed  a 
member  of  the  committee  on,  .  68 

County  and  Township  Organization,  ap- 
pointed a  member  of  the  committee  on,        68 

Engrossment,  appointed  a  member  of  the 
committee  on,  .  .  197 

Wilson,  Thos.,  (delegate  from  Winona,) — 

OflFers  substitutes  for  resolution  on  the  wish 
of  the  people  to  become  a  State,  IS,  25 

—  Remarks  on,  .  .  18,  21,  25 

Eligibility  of  Federal  Officers  to  seats  in  the 
Convention,  remarks  on,  .  55 

Judiciary,  appointed  chairman  on,  .  68 

State  Boundaries,  appointed  a  member  of 
the  committee  on,  .  68 

Elective  Franchise,  appointed  a  member  of 
the  committee  on,  .  68 

Resolution  for  a  committee  to  wait  upon  the 
U.  S.  Marshal,  remarks  on,  .  70 

Resolution  allowing  newspapers  to  officers 
of  the  Convention,  oflFered  by,  .  81 

Preamble  and  Bill  of  Rights,  remarks  on 
report  of  committee  on,  .  91,  109 

Slander  or  libel,  in  actions  for,  jurors  to  be 
judges  of  the  law  and  the  fact,  remarks  on,  159 

Rights  of  Married  Women,  remarks  on,        171 

Taking  private  property  for  public  uses,  re- 
marks on,  .  .  179-82 

Substitute  for  the  report  of  the  committee 
on  Boundaries,  remarks  on,  .  223-5 

Educational  Institutions  and  Interests,  re- 
marks on,  -  -  233 

County  and  Township  organizations,  re- 
marks on,  .  .  279 

Banking,  remarks  on  the  report  of  the  com- 
mittee on,  .  .  326 

Striking  out  the  word  "white,"  remarks  on,  343 

Remarks  on  Mr.  Foster's  substitute  to  sec- 
tion one  for  the  report  of  the  committee 
on  elective  franchise,  .  881 

Elective  Franchise,  remarks  on  report  of 
committee  on,  ..  .  383 

Judiciary,  remarks  on  the  report  of  the 
committee  on,  .  .  iOo 

Appointed  a  member  of  the  compromise 
committee,  .  .  411 

Remarks  on  report  of  the  committee  on 
State  Seal  and  Coat  of  Arms,  .  412 

Proposition  to  submit  the  question  of  Boun- 
dary to  the  people,  remarks  on,  .        422 

Finance,  Taxation  and  Public  Debt,  re- 
marks on,  ...         468 

University  of  Minnesota,  remarks  on  the 
location  and  distribution  of  the  fund  of,     480 

Reconsideration  of  a  certain  vote  relative  to 
the  University,  remarks  on,  .  499 


xvrn 


INDEX. 


Wilson,  Thos.,  (delegate  from  Winona) — 
Navigable  .waters,  remarks  on  the  subject 

of,  .  .  513 

Selected  as  chairman  of  the  committee  of 

the  whole,  .  .  526 

Personal  explanation  relative  to  the  assault 

of  W.  A.  Gorman,  .  .  560-5 

Remarks  on  the  report  of  the  compromise 

committee,  .  .  .  518 

Remarks  on  the  payment  of  members  and 

officers,  .  .  591 

TransTation  of  the  Constitution,  resolution 

relative  to,  offered  by,  .  587 

Extra  pay  to   the    Assistant    Sergeant-at- 

Arms,  resolution  for,  offered  by,  .      587 

Yeas  and  Nats — 

On  substitute  of  Mr.  North,  to  the  propo- 
sition embodying  the  wish  of  the  people 
to  become  a  State,  -  -  25 

On  amendment  of  Mr.  Wilson,  to  the  sub- 
stitute, -  -  .         26 

On  adjournment,  -  -  46 

On  amendment  of  Mr.  McClure,  to  substi- 
tute for  resolution  inviting  all  delegates 
to  seats,  -  -  -  64 

On  indefinite  postponement  of  Report  on 
Exemption,  &c.,  -  -  152 

On  motion  to  re-commit  the  Report  on  Pre- 
amble and  Bill  of  Rights,  -  158 

Amendment  to  Preamble,  &c.,  making  ju- 
rors to  be  judges  of  the  law  and  facts,  in 
certain  actions,  -  -  161 

Amendment  to  Preamble,  &c.,  in  reference 
to  the  rights  of  married  women,  174 

Amendment  to  Preamble,  Ac,  prohibiting 
licenses  to  sell  liquor,  -  -  175 

Amendment  to  Preamble,  Ac,  relative  to 
taking  private  property  for  public  use,        189 

Substitute  for  Mr.  Bolles'  amendment  pro- 
hibiting the  abolition  of  the  death  pen- 
alty, -  -  -  191 


Yeas  and  Nays — 

Substitute  for  the  report  of  the  committee 
on  Boundaries,  -  -  229 

Amendment  to  report  of  the  committee  on 
Educational  Institutions  and  Interests,        249 

On  adjournment  (two  votes),  -  250 

Respecting  the  rights  of  settlers  on  school 
lands,  -  -  -  253 

Amendment  to  report  on  County  and  Town- 
ship organization,  -  -  280 

Amendments  to  report  of  the  committee  on 
Banking,  -  -  324,326,327,331 

On  striking  out  the  word  "  white,"  365 

Laying  on  the  table  an  amendment  to  Mr. 
Foster's  substitute  for  the  report  of  the 
committee  on  Elective  Franchise,        -        385 

Amendment  to  report  of  committee  on  elec- 
tive Franchise,  relative  to  allowing  civil- 
ized persons  of  Indian  descent  the  right 
to  vote,  -  -  -  398 

On  printing  Boundary  resolution,  -         442 

Substitutes  for  the  Boundary  resolution,  447,467 

Reconsideration  of  the  vote  on  Boundary 
resolution,  -  .  -  468 

Propositions  to  submit  the  question  of  Boun- 
dary to  the  people,  -  -  470 

Laying  on  the  table  a  motion  to  reconsider,  471 

Amendments  to  report  of  committee  on 
public  property  relative  to  the  Univer- 
sity, -  -  -  496,501,507,309 

Dispensing  with  proceedings  under  a  call 
of  the  House,  -  -  497,501 

On  ordering  the  previous  question,        -        602 

Amendment  to  report  of  Committee  on  Pub- 
lic Property  relative  to  navigable  waters,    512 

Motions  to  suspend  the  rules,  -        516,568 

On  the  passage  of  the  report  of  the  com- 
mittee on  Elective  Franchise,  -  542 

On  ordering  the  report  of  the  Compromise 
committee  to  a  third  reading,  -  581 

On  the  passage  of  the  report,  -  582 

"     "    substitution  of  the  report,  682 


THE    CONVENTION. 


HALL  OF  THE  HOUSE   OF  REPRESENTATIVES, 
Saixt  Paul,  Monday,  July  13,  1857. 


The  Delegates  elected  to  form  a  Constitution 
and  State  Government  for  the  Territory  of 
Minnesota,  this  day  assembled  in  the  Hall 
of  the  House  of  the  Representatives  at  the 
CapitoL 

TEMPOBAKY   OBGAJOZATIOX. 

At  fifteen  minutes  before  twelve  o'clock, 
Mr.  J.  W.  NORTH  called  the  Convention  to 
order,  and  nominated  THOS.  J.  GALBRAITH 
as  President  pro  tempore. 

Mr.  NORTH  put  the  question  to  the  Dele- 
gates, and  declai-ed  it  carried. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH  thereupon  took  the 
chair.  [At  this  stage  of  proceedings  a  portion 
of  the  delegates  left  the  Convention.] 

The  PRESIDENT  pro  tern,  having  called 
the  Convention  to  order, 

Mr.  FOSTER  nominated  the  following  tem- 
porary officers,  who  were,  without  division, 
declared  elected: 

L.  A.  Babcock,  Secretary ; 

J.  Q.  A.  "Wabd,  Assistant  Secretary  ; 

Wm.  Fosteb,  Sergeant-at-Arms ; 

B.  L.  Sellobs,  Messenger ; 

GusTAV  Leue,  Fireman. 

Mr.  NORTH  said  he  would  state  for  the 
information  of  those  who  might  not  have  been 
aware  of  the  fact,  that  he  nominated  Mr. 
Galbbaith  as  President  pro  tern,  at  the 
written  request  of  a  majority  of  the  members 
of  the  entire  Convention. 

CBEDEXTIALS. 

On  motion  of  Mr.  ALDRICH,  the  President 
pro  tern,  was  authorized  to  appoint  a  commit- 
tee of  five  members  to  collect  and  report  upon 
the  credentials  of  the  delegates  present. 


The  PRESIDENT ;)ro  Urn.,  (from  a  printed 
list  of  all  the  delegates  elect,)  appointed  as 
such  committee,  Messrs.  Nobth,  Aldbich, 
Shebbcbxe,  Yacghx  and  Baasex. 

The  Committee  having  performed  the  duty 
assigned  them,  reported  the  following  delegates 
as  having  presented  regular  credentials  : 

first  I>igtrict—P.  A.  Ckdebstam,  W.  H.  C.  Fol- 
so3t,  L.  K.  Staxxabd,  Chas.  F.  Lowe  ; 

TAird  DUfrict—S.  W.  Pctsam,  D.  M.  Hall,  D. 

A.  Secombe,  p.  "Wkkll,  L.  C.  Walkzk,  J.  H. 

MCBPHT  ; 

Fourth  District — Charles  McCLrRK,  Aarox  G. 
HcDsox,  Geo.  Watso.v,  Fbaxk  Maxtor,  Joseph 
Peckham  ; 

I'i/th  District — ^Frederick  Ater  ; 

Sixth  District — Johx  W.  North,  Thomas  Bolles, 
Oscar  F.  Perkixs,  Thos.  Foster,  Thos.  J.  Gal- 

BRAITH,  D.  D.  DiCKIXSOX  ; 

Eighth  District — Alaxsox  B.  Yacghx,  C.  W. 
Thompsox,  Johx  A.  Axdersox,   Chas.  A.  Cob,  N. 

B.  CoLBURX,  Jos.  A.  McCaxx,  H.  a.  Billixgs, 
Charles  Haxsox,  H.  W.  Holly,  Johx  CleghObk, 
a.  H.  Bctler,  Robert  Ltle  ; 

Jiinth  District — St.  A.  D.  Balcombe,  Charles 
Gerrisb,  Siheox  Haedixg,  Nathax  B.  Robbiss, 
Wm.  J.  Dult,  Sam.  A.  Kemp,  Thomas  Wilsox, 
David  L.  Kixg,  Bexjamix  C.  Baldwix  ; 

Tfnth  District — Amos  Coggswell,  Lewis  Mc- 
KcxB,  Edwix  Page  Davis  ; 

Eleventh  District — Cyrus  Aldrich,  Wextwobth 
Haydkx,  R.  L.  Bartholomew,  W.  F.  Rcssell, 
Hexry  Eschlie,  David  ^Iorgax,  E.  X.  Bates. 
Albert  W.  Coombs,  T.  D.  Smith,  and  B.  E.  Messer. 

On  motion  of  Mr.  FOSTER,  editors  and 
reporters  of  newspapers  were  invited  to  seats 
within  the  bar. 

On  motion  of  Mr.  THOMPSON,  the  report 
of  the  committee  on  Credentials  was  accepted. 

Mr.  SECOMBE  moved  that  the  credentials 


10 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Mondat,  JuLt  13. 


presented  be  «>ntered  at  large  on  the  journal. 
He  wisbe,(^  that  from  the  very  commencement 
it  s-^hoald  become  apparent  upon  what  basis 
we  are  proceeding. 

Mr.  FOSTER  approved  of  the  motion.  The 
Convention  had  no  archives  in  which  its  pa- 
pers are  to  be  deposited.  The  journal  was 
the  only  record  of  the  Convention,  and  he 
hoped  these  credentials  would  be  spread  upon 
that  record. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to. 

MEMBERS   QUALIFIED. 

On  motion  of  Mr.  NORTH,  Maj.  Fukber,  a 
justice  of  the  peace,  administered  to  the  dele- 
gates present,  the  usual  oath  to  support  the 
Constitution  of  the  United  States. 

The  PRESIDENT  pro  tern,  then  annoimced 
that  fifty-six  delegates,  a  majority  of  the  au- 
thorized number  of  members  of  the  body, 
being  present  and  in  their  seats,  the  Conven- 
tion was  open  for  the  transaction  of  any  busi- 
ness which  might  come  before  it. 

PERMANENT   ORGAXIZATION. 

On  motion  of  Mr.  NORTH,  the  Convention 
proceeded  mva  voce  to  elect  a  permanent  Pre- 
sident, when  it  appeared  that  St.  A.  D.  Bal- 
COMBE  received  fifty-five  votes  and  Mr.  Al- 
DRicn  one. 

On  motion  of  Mr.  NORTH,  Messrs.  Foster 
and  Thompson  conducted  the  President  elect 
to  the  chair. 

The  PRESIDENT  then  addressed  the  Con- 
vention as  follows : 

Gentlemen  of  the  Convention  :  I  return 
to  you  my  sincere  thanks  for  this  mark  of 
your  kind  consideration  in  electing  me  as 
your  presiding  officer.  I  assume  the  duties 
of  this  position  with  a  knowledge  of  the  fact 
that  there  are  many  members  of  this  Conven- 
tion now  before  me,  who  are  much  better 
qualified  to  perform  its  duties  than  myself. 
But  I  ask  it  as  a  favor  of  each  and  every 
member,  to  aid  me  so  far  as  it  is  possible  so 
to  do,  in  the  performance  of  the  responsible 
duties  to  which  you  have  assigned  me.  I  shall 
endeavor  to  discharge  them  to  the  best  of  my 
ability ;  and  if  I  fail,  it  will  be  simply  because  I 
have  not  the  ability,  and  not  because  I  have  not 
the  ambition  and  dispo.sition  to  pcrfonn  the 
duties  assigned  mc  in  a  creditable  manner. 
I  again  return   my  sincere  thanks  for  your 


consideration,  and  for  the  honor  you  have 
conferred  upon  me.     [Applause.] 

On  motion  of  Mr.  STANNARD,  the  Con- 
vention proceeded  Xiixia  wee  to  the  election  of 
a  permanent  Secretary. 

The  roll  was  called  and  L.  A.  Babcock,  of 
St.  Paul,  having  received  all  the  votes  cast, 
(fifty-six)  w'as  declared  to  be  duly  elected. 

On  motion  of  Mr.  WILSON,  the  Convention 
proceeded  mva  voce  to  the  election  of  perma- 
nent Assistant  Secretary. 

The  roll  was  then  called,  and  J.  Q.  A. 
Ward,  of  St.  Paul,  having  received  all  the 
votes  cast,  (fifty-six)  was  declared  to  be  duly 
elected. 

On  motion  of  Mr.  FOSTER,  the  Convention 
proceeded  to  the  election  of  Scrgeant-at-Arms. 

The  roll  being  called,  there  were  fifty -five 
votes  cast,  of  which  Wm,  Foster,  of  Dakota 
County,  received  fifty-four,  and  B.  L.  Sellors 
one.  Whereupon,  Wm.  Foster  was  declared 
duly  elected. 

On  motion  of  Mr.  THOMPSON,  the  Con- 
vention proceeded  to  the  election  of  a  perma- 
ment  Messenger.  The  vote  being  taken,  B. 
L.  Sellors,  of  Fillmore  County,  was  unani- 
mously elected. 

On  motion  of  Mr.  FOSTER,  the  Convention 
elected  Gustav  Leue,  of  Ramsey  County,  as 
Fireman  of  the  Convention. 

On  motion  of  Mr.  GALBRAITH,  the  Con- 
vention proceeded  to  the  election  of  Chaplain. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH  nominated  the  Rev  E. 
D.  Neill,  of  St.  Paul,  and  said :  I  desire 
simply  to  remark,  that  Mr.  Neill  is  one  of 
the  pioneers  of  this  country,  and  has  identified 
himself  with  its  original  history.  He  camo 
here  at  an  early  day,  one  of  the  first  perma- 
nent ministers  of  the  gospel  among  the  whites 
in  the  Territory. 

Mr.  FOSTER.  Having  had  a  long  acquaint- 
ance with  Mr.  Neill,  I  can,  with  Mr.  Gal- 
BRAiTH,  endorse  his  qualifications.  He  has 
been  the  historian  of  the  territory,  and  has 
contributed  much  to  giving  it  position  at  homo 
and  abroad.  As  a  liistorical  man,  wc  shall 
do  ourselves  credit  in  electing  him — as  we  may 
be  called  a  historical  convention,  being  the 
first  to  lay  the  foundations  of  a  state — and  at 
the  same  time  we  shall  pay  a  deserved  com- 
pliment to  him. 

Mr.  NORTH  fiirther  testified  to  the  high 
character  of  the  nominee,  after  which  the  vote 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Monday,  Jclt  18. 


11 


being  taken,   Mr.   Neill  was    unanimously  | 
elected. 

On  motion  of  Mr.  WILSON,  such  ofiBcers 
of  the  Convention  as  were  present,  were  duly- 
qualified  by  taking  the  oath  of  office,  adminis- 
tered by  Maj.  P.  P.  Fukbeb,  Justice  of  the 
Peace. 

RULES    OF    PROCEEDINGS. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH  moved  that  a  committee 
of  three  be  appointed  by  the  chair  to  complete 
and  report  a  code  of  rules  for  the  government 
of  the  Convention.   The  motion  was  agi-eed  to. 

The  PRESIDENT  appointed  Messrs.  Gal- 
BRAiTH,  Wilson-  and  McKune  as  such  com- 
mittee. 

On  motion  of  Mr.  ALDRICH,  the  rules  of 
the  last  House  of  Representatives  of  the  Ter- 
ritorial Legislature  were  adopted  as  the  rules 
of  the  Ccmvention,  as  far  as  they  were  appli- 
cable, imtil  the  select  committee  on  Rules 
should  report,  and  their  report  be  accepted. 

On  motion  of  Mr.  WATSON,  Messrs.  Mc- 
Clcre  and  Aldkich  were  appointed  a  com- 
mittee to  wait  upon  the  Chaplaia  elect,  and 
inform  him  of  his  election. 

The  organization  of  the  Convention  being 
completed,  the  Rev.  Mr.  Sheldon  opened  the 
Convention  with  prayer,  in  the  absence  of  the 
Chaplain  elect. 

WISH  OF  the  people  TO  BE  ADMITTED  AS  A  STATE. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH  (by  imanimous  consent) 
read  the  Enabling  Act  of  Congress,  and  then 
offered  the  following  resolution  : 

*'Ees6lv(d,  That  in  the  opinion  of  this  Conven- 
tion, it  is  the  wish  of  the  people  of  the  proposed 
State  of  Minnesota,  to  be  admitted  into  the  Union 
at  this  time,  in  accordance  with  the  act  of  Congress 
entitled  'an  act  to  authorize  the  people  of  the 
Territory  of  Minnesota  to  form  a  constitution  and 
state  government,  preparatory  to  their  admission 
into  the  Union  on  an  equal  footing*  with  the  original 
states.    Approved,  March  — ,  185T." 

Mr.  STANNARD.  I  offer  the  following 
substitute  : 

"Seaolved,  By  the  delegates  elected  in  pursuance 
of  the  provisions  of  the  act  of  Congress,  approved 
March  — ,  entitled  '  an  act  to  authorise  the  people 
of  the  Territory  of  Minnesota  to  form  a  constitu- 
tion and  state  government  preparatory  to  their 
admission  into  the  Union  on  an  equal  footing  with 
the  original  states,'  in  Convention  now  assembled, 
to  form  such  constitution,  in  accordance  with  said 
act,  that  it  is  the  wish  of  the  inhabitants  residing 
within  the  limits  described  in  said  act,  to  be  ad- 
mitted in  the  Union  as  a  State  in  pursuance  of 
said  act." 


Mr.  GALBRAITH.  I  will  accept  the 
substitute. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  If  I  understand  the 
language  of  that  resolution,  and  the  language 
of  the  Enabling  Act,  the)'  do  not  correspond 
in  some  very  essential  features.  The  Enabling 
Act  provides  that  when  the  delegates  elected 
shall  assemble  at  the  Capitol,  they  shall  "  first 
"  determine  by  a  vote  whether  it  is  the  wish 
"  of  the  people  of  the  proposed  State  " — ^the 
"people,"  not  "the  inhabitants" — "to  be 
"  admitted  into  the  LTnion  at  this  time."  I 
vmderstand  that  there  is  a  material  difference 
between  that  language,  and  the  language  of 
the  resolution,  and  I  am  in  favor  of  having  the 
language'  of  the  Enabling  Act  incorporated, 
verbatim  et  literatim,  into  that  resolution  as 
far  as  it  can  be  done. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  The  words  of  my  re- 
solution are  taken  from  the  first  part  of  the 
first  section  of  the  Enabling  Act,  and  fi-om 
the  second  section,  in  which  the  term  "  peo- 
ple" is  used,  which  I  consider  synonomoua 
with  "  inhabitants." 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  Teiy  true;  but  I 
make  a  distinction  between  the  acts  of  the 
inhabitants  of  the  Territory  of  Minnesota  as 
laid  down  and  defined  in  the  first  section^ 
and  the  actions  and  conduct  of  the  delegates 
when  assembled  at  the  Capitol  for  the  purpose 
of  determining  whether  it  is  the  wish  of  the 
people  to  come  into  the  Union  upon  an  equal 
footing  with  the  original  States.  I  am  com- 
pelled to  vote  against  the  resolution  imtil  it  is 
so  fipamed  as  to  include  in  it  the  words  of  the 
Enabling  Act,  which  specifies  what  shall  be 
done  by  the  Convention  when  assembled,  so 
that  there  may  be  no  doubt  of  its  meaning, 
and  no  advantage  taken  in  any  way,  shape 
or  manner. 

Mr.  THOMPSON.  I  move  that  the  reso- 
lution be  referred  to  a  select  committee  of 
three,  with  instructions  to  report  to-morrow  a 
resolution  in  proper  form. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  I  hope  the  motion  will 
not  prevail.  I  think  there  is  every  evidence 
of  a  long  day's  session,  and  I  dislike  very 
much  to  sit  here  without  having  something  to 
i  do.  It  seems  that  this  is  the  key-stone  of 
'  our  action,  and  we  have  to  decide  upon  this 
before  we  can  advance  another  step. 

Mr.  ALDRICH.  I  move  to  amend  the 
motion  by  striking  out  "  select  committee  of 


13 


MINxNiESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Monday,  July  18. 


three,"  and  substituting  "  a  committee  of  the 
Whole." 

Mr.  STANNARD.  Would  not  the  reso- 
lution then  be  just  where  it  is  now  ? 

Mr.  FOSTER.  When  we  are  in  committee 
of  the  Whole,  amendments  of  all  kinds  and 
shapes  may  be  adopted,*  rejected  or  changed 
about  to  suit  the  wishes  of  this  body;  the 
proceedings  are  not  recorded  upon  the  jour- 
nals, or  only  so  much  of  them  as  the  House 
afterwards  adopts ;  greater  latitude  of  debate 
is  allowed,  and  an  opportunity  is  afforded  to 
the  President  of  the  Convention  to  participate 
in  the  discussion.  For  these  reasons,  I  hope 
it  will  be  sent  to  a  committee  of  the  AVhole. 

Mr.  HAYDEN.  It  seems  to  me  that  it 
would  expedite  business  to  refer  the  resolu- 
tion to  a  select  committee,  which,  I  presume, 
would  report  back  such  a  resolution  as  would 
satisfy  the  Convention. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  As  a  member  of  this 
Convention  I  desire  that,  in  taking  a  step  of 
this  importance,  we  should  act  carefully,  cau- 
tiously, prudently  and  correctly.  Our  actions 
will  be  criticised,  and  so  far  as  I  am  con- 
cerned, I  am  in  favor  of  placing  them  in  such 
a  shape  that  there  shall  be  very  little  chance 
for  criticism  or  doubt.  I  can  already  see  a 
cloud  lowering  over  us — and  my  apprehen- 
sions are  not,  in  my  judgment,  unfounded — 
and  it  becomes  us,  as  members  of  the  Con- 
vention, to  look  well  to  every  step  we  take. 
If  I  understand  correctly  the  language  of  the 
Enabling  Act,  and  the  proper  construction 
which  is  to  be  placed  upon  it,  the  resolution 
which  is  adopted  by  the  Convention  should 
incorporate  substantially  the  language  used  in 
that  Act ;  and  if  the  pending  resolution  shall 
be  sent  to  the  committee  of  the  Whole,  I  shall 
ofifer  an  amendment  which  will  accomplish 
that  end. 

Mr.  KING.  I  second  the  motion  for  the 
reference  of  these  resolutions,  and  I  hope  they 
will  lie  over  imtil  to-morrow  to  give  the  mem- 
bers of  the  Convention  time  to  reflect  upon 
them,  and  make  up  their  minds.  I  conceive 
this  to  be  the  most  expeditious,  and  certainly 
the  safest  mode  of  proceeding.  A  great  many 
of  us  are  uninitiated  in  these  proceedings,  and 
the  noise  and  confusion  has  been  so  great  that 
all  have  not  been  able  to  understand  all  that 
has  been  said.  I  hope,  therefore,  the  rcsolu- 
tion«  will  lie  over  until  to-morrow  to  give  us 


nn  opportunity  of  examining  them  at  our 
lodgings,  and  of  consulting  -with  each  other 
relative  to  them.  We  shall  then  be  able  to 
act  understandingly. 

Mr.  ALDRICH.  I  dislike  very  much  to 
obtrude  myself  upon  the  Convention,  but  I 
wish  to  state  to  those  who  may  not  be  fami- 
liar with  the  rules,  my  understanding  of  this 
matter.  If  this  resolution  and  substitute  are 
referred  to  a  committee  of  the  Whole,  it  wiQ 
be  in  the  power  of  that  committee  to  report 
them  back  at  any  time.  If  I  understand  the 
rules,  they  will  come  before  the  Convention 
again  just  as  easily  from  a  committee  of  the 
Whole  as  from  a  committee  of  three  members. 
The  object  of  referring  to  a  committee  of  the 
Whole  is  to  give  us  all  an  opportimity  for  ex- 
amination and  discussion  among  ourselves.^ 
Every  member  who  desires  will  have  the  op- 
portunity of  speaking  upon  them,  and  I  do 
not  laiow  why  we  may  not  arrive  at  correct 
conclusions  by  this  course  as  well  as  by  any 
other.  I  shall  have  no  objection  to  adjourn- 
ing, and  allowing  the  matter  to  go  over  imtil 
to-morrow,  if  we  could  adjourn  with  any  safe- 
ty ;  but  as  we  are  obliged  to  remain  here,  let 
us  examine  the  matter  coolly,  quietly  and 
calmly,  and  see  if  we  cannot  come  to  a  cor- 
rect understanding  of  it. 

Mr.  FOSTER.  I  agree  with  gentlemen 
that  we  should  correct  the  phraseology  of 
the  resolution  so  as  to  make  it  conform  ex- 
actly to  the  provisions  of  the  Enabling  Act ; 
and  although  we  might  refer  the*  matter  to  a 
committee,  who  could  retire  and  report  forth- 
with, still,  I  see  no  reason  why  the  resolution 
cannot  as  well  be  perfected  in  committee  of 
the  Whole,  where  there  is  perfect  freedom  in 
offering  and  discussing  amendments.  When 
we  have  agreed  upon  the  phraseology  of  the 
amendment,  we  can  report  it  back  to  the 
Convention,  and  adopt  it.  I  hope  the  vote 
will  be  taken  without  further  delay,  for,  as 
near  as  I  can  get  at  it,  we  can  do  no  business 
until  we  have  disposed  of  this  ;  but  when  we 
have  disposed  of  this,  we  are  then  rectus  in 
curia,  ready  to  proceed  with  the  business  of 
the  Convention.  This  is  an  important  crisis ! 
and  we  must  move  carefully,  cautiously,  and 
at  the  same  time  decisively.  Sending  this 
matter  to  committee  of  the  Whole,  where  we 
can  hear  and  offer  amendments,  seems  the 
course  be»t  calculated  to  accomplish  our  ob- 


MIX^fESOTA  C0N\T:NTI0N  debates— Mont)ay,  Jclt  13. 


13 


ject     We  can  then  go  into  Convention,  and 
take  decisive  action  upon  it. 

Mr.  ilcCLURE.  I  tiiink  we  can  reach 
this  matter  without  going  into  committee  of 
the  Whole  at  all.  It  seems  to  me  we  can 
dispose  of  it  just  as  well  in  Convention  as  in 
committee,  because  we  are  just  the  same 
body  with  a  difiFerent  head,  and  I  do  not  see 
what  we  should  effect  by  it.  If  the  gentle- 
man over  the  way  [Mr.  Coggswell]  will  offer 
the  amendment  which  he  has  prepared,  we 
can  consider  it  just  as  well  here  as  in  com- 
mittee. If  it  should  meet  the  views  of  gen- 
tlemen here,  those  who  have  offered  proposi- 
tions before  may  be  induced  to  withdraw 
them,  add  we  can  adopt  his  resolution,  and 
thus  arrive  at  the  ;  result  we  desire  by  a 
shorter  method  than  going  into  committee  of 
the  Whole. 

Mr.  HUDSON.  I  do  not  consider  myself 
as  posted  in  respect  to  the  difference  between 
acting  upon  this  subject  in  committee  of  the 
Whole  and  in  Convention,  but  I  am  decidedly 
in  favor  of  taking  that  course  which  will  be 
most  likely  to  bring  about  the  right  result, 
after  a  careful  investigation  of  the  whole  mat- 
ter. We  are  here  to  frame  a  Constitution  for 
the  incoming  State  of  Minnesota;  and  not 
only  are  the  eyes  of  Mumesota  rating  upon 
us,  but  of  the  whole  United  States.  We  act 
not  for  the  present  generation  alone,  but  for 
coming  generations.  The  Constitution  we 
shall  present  to  the  people  of  Minnesota,  we 
shall  present  because  we  do  not  know  enough 
to  make  a  better  one ;  and  in  all  our  actions 
we  ought  to  move  cautiously.  If  I  could  see 
any  eflBcacy  in  going  into  committee  of  the 
Whole — if  as  the  gentleman  [Mr.  Fosteb]  has 
said,  it  can  be  discussed  there  more  freely — 
I  should  be  in  favor  of  discussing  it  there ; 
but  I  should  like  to  be  enlightened  as  to  the 
mode  in  which  it  is  to  be  accomplished. 

The  PRESIDENT  stated  that  in  committee 
of  the  Whole  members  could  speak  as  often 
as  they  saw  fit  to  the  same  question ;  while, 
xmder  the  rules,  no  member,  in  Convention, 
could  spe^  but  twice  to  the  same  question. 
Another  difference  was  that  the  amendments 
offered  in  committee  of  the  Whole  were  not 
required  to  be  entered  on  the  journal. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  This  resolution  is  in 
fact  the  starting  point.  Until  we  a«t  upon 
this  matter  nothing  can  be  done.    For  my 


part,  I  do  not  intend  to  discuss  it  here,  and 
am  decidedly  in  favor  of  referring  it  to  a  com- 
mittee of  the  Whole  at  once,  for  reasons  and 
good  reasons,  already  stated.  It  can  there 
be  debated  and  amended,  if  necessary,  with- 
out encumbering  the  journals.  The  utmost 
latitude  of  debate  should  be  allowed,  and 
there  is  not  that  freedom  of  debate  here 
which  there  is  in  committee.  But  it  is  our 
business  to  make  short  work  of  this  Conven- 
tion. Our  work  must  be  done  and  well  done ; 
but  we  can  practically  do  nothing  until  a  re- 
solution of  this  character  has  been  passed. 

The  question  was  taken,  and  the  motion  to 
refer  the  resolution  to  a  committee  of  the 
Whole  was  agreed  to — ayes  24,  noes  18. 

Mr.  NORTH  moved  that  the  Convention 
resolve  itself  into  committee  of  the  Whole  for 
the  purpose  of  taking  up  the  resolution  just 
referred  there. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to.  The  Conven- 
tion accordingly  resolved  itself  into  committee 
of  the  Whole,  (Mr.  Nobth  in  the  Chair),  and 
proceeded  to  the  consideration  of  the  resolu- 
tions relative  to  the  wish  of  the  people  to 
form  a  State  government. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL  offered  the  following 
substitute  for  the  original  resolution : 

"  Sesolved,  That  it  is  the  wish  of  the  people  of 
the  proposed  State  of  Minnesota,  at  this  time,  to 
be  admitted  into  the  Union  upon  an  equal  footing 
with  the  original  States." 

Mr.  C.  said.  If  this  were  the  only  body 
to  decide  upon  the  correctness  and  legality  of 
our  conduct  and  proceedings,  I  apprehend 
there  would  be  but  little  difficulty  in  arriving 
at  the  object  intended  by  the  original  resolu- 
tion; but  our  conduct  and  proceedings  are 
all  to  imdergo  the  inspection  of  Congress ; 
and  sir,  in  laying  down,  as  we  are  now  doing, 
the  foundation  of  our  futiu«  action,  I  am  in 
favor  of  laying  it  down  safely  and  securely  ; 
I  am  in  favor  of  laying  it  down  in  such  a 
manner  that  neither  Congress,  nor  any  other 
body,  can  misconstrue  our  intentions,  our  ob- 
jects or  our  acts.  I  am  satisfied  tliat  if  there 
were  no  diversity  of  opinion  with  regard  to 
our  organization,  any  resolution  which  has 
been  offered  to  accomplish  the  object  we  have 
in  view  would  be  pronounced  sufficient ;  but, 
sir,  I  think  I  can  see  in  the  distance  an  effort 
being  made  to  distort  every  act  of  ours  in 
such  manner  as  will  give  some  little  show  for 


u 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Monday,  Jclv  13. 


saying  that  our  proceedings  are  irregular, 
illegal,  not  warranted  by  the  Enabling  Act, 
I  have  always  found  it  the  best  plan,  in  draw- 
ing up  papers  founded  upon  a  statute,  to  fol- 
low the  precise  language  of  that  statute  as  far 
as  possible.  When  the  language  of  the  sta- 
tute is  adopted,  there  can  be  but  little  doubt 
as  to  the  construction  that  must  be  given. 
Now,  gentlemen  might  suppose  that  there 
could  be  but  little  doubt  as  to  the  construc- 
tion that  must  be  given  to  the  resolution  as 
originally  drawn ;  but,  sir,  there  are  certain 
men  who  will  resort  to  certain  tricks  to  carry 
out  a  certain  purpose,  and  I  have  always 
found  it  the  better  policy  to  be  prepared 
against  every  emergency,  and  to  provide 
against  any  possible  misconstruction.  I  have, 
in  the  substitute  I  have  proposed,  followed 
the  exact  language  of  the  Enabling  Act.  Let 
us  see : 

Section  third  of  the  Enabling  Act  provides 
that  the  Convention  shall  assemble  at  the 
Capitol,  on  the  second  Monday  in  July,  That 
we  have  done — and  shall  determine  by  vote, 
what  ?  "whether  it  is  the  wish  of  the  people  " 
— that  is  English  language — "whether  it  is 
"  the  wish  of  the  people  of  the  proposed  State 
"  to  be  admitted  into  the  Union  at  this  time." 
That  is  the  language  of  the  Enabling  Act,  and 
I  think  it  will  be  well  to  incorporate  that  lan- 
guage into  thi^  resolution  in  such  manner  that 
there  can  be  no  doubt  left  as  to  its  construc- 
tion or  its  legal  effect. 

The  section  goes  on  to  provide  that  the 
Convention  shall  then  proceed  to  fonn  a  Con- 
stitution and  State  government.  When  we 
have  adopted  the  resolution  required  in  the 
Enabling  Act,  we  have  the  authority  to  go 
on  and  form  a  Constitution,  but  not  until 
we  have  adopted  it,  I  prefer  the  adoption  of 
the  substitute,  so  that  there  sliall  be  no  doubt 
about  the  legality  of  our  future  proceedings. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  I  think  the  amend- 
ment of  the  gentleman  is  too  ambiguous.  It 
has  no  reference  to  the  boundaries  of  the  pro- 
posed State.  It  makes  no  reference  to  the 
Enabling  Act.  Now,  sir,  the  substitute  which 
I  proposed  refers  directly  to  the  Act  of  Con- 
gress under  which  we  are  here.  It  specifies 
the  inhabitants  residing  within  the  limits  of 
the  proposed  State,  referred  to  in  the  Ena- 
bling Act.  If  there  is  any  surplusage  in  it,  I 
am   willing  to  have   it  struck  off.     I  want 


nothmg  but  what  is  right,  but  I  think  the 
amendment  last  offered  is  entirely  too  ambi- 
guous. 

Mr.  ROBBINS.  I  was  glad  when  the 
Convention  decided  to  bring  this  question  re- 
ferred to,  up  in  committee  of  the  Whole,  for 
two  reasons :  One  was  that  the  resolution,  as 
it  then  stood,  was,  in  my  judgmeut,  imper- 
fect ;  and  the  other  was  that  it  was  too  com- 
prehensive. The  first  resolution  was  brought 
before  us  in  a  hasty  manner,  and  we  were 
told  that  time  was  wanting,  that  we  must  get 
through  with  what  we  have  to  do  and  go 
home.  Well,  sir,  I  for  one  am  opposed  to 
crowding  everything  into  one  resolution,  I 
wish  to  have  questions  in  themselves  separate, 
decided  separately.  When  we  are  to  deter- 
mine whether  the  people  of  Minnesota  desire 
to  come  into  the  Union  upon  an  equal  footing 
with  the  original  States,  let  us  vote  upon  that 
question  alone,  and  not  couple  with  it  another 
proposition  to  determine  the  boundary  of  the 
proposed  State.  Let  us  vote  for  the  first 
proposition,  upon  which  there  is  no  difference 
of  opinion,  and  not  couple  with  it  another, 
upon  which  there  is  a  difference  of  opinion, 
and  in  which  my  constituents  feel  a  deep  in- 
terest. I  hope  the  question  will  be  taken 
simply  upon  the  proposition  whether  the  peo- 
ple of  Minnesota  desire  to  come  into  the 
Union  as  a  State. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  This  is  a  question  of 
some  importance.  It  is  one  upon  which 
great  difference  of  opinion  has  heretofore 
been  expressed  in  the  Territory  of  Minnesota, 
and  I  wish  simply  to  express  my  opinion  up- 
on it.  The  resolution  of  the  gentleman  over 
the  way  [Mr.  Stannabd],  in  my  opinion, 
covers  the  whole  groimd.  It  is  in  fact  this : 
tliat  the  people  of  this  Temtory  agree  to  meet 
here  under  the  Enabling  Act,  and  in  accord- 
ance with  that  act,  I  think  that  resolution 
fixes  the  boundary  of  the  proposed  State.  If 
we  accept  the  Enabling  Act,  we  accept  it  as 
a  whole.  If  we  reject  a  part  of  it,  what 
guaranty  have  wo  that  we  do  not  reject  every 
part  of  it?  Suppose  tliat  having  come  to- 
gether under  that  act,  elected  under  it,  hold- 
ing our  seats  by  virtue  of  it,  we  imdertake  to 
repudiate  it,  is  Congress  bound  any  longer  ? 
They  are  bound  now.  Congress,  or  rather 
the  United  States,  lias  done  its  part ;  and  now 
we  are  bi  process  of  doing  our  part.     1 1  is  for 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Mosdat.  Jilt  iS. 


15 


us  to  put  our  signatures  to  the  compact.    Let  ; 
us  fail  to  do  that  and  we,  as  the  other  party, 
violate  the  whole  instrument,  and  the  United 
States  are  no  longer  bound. 

Now,  sir,  whether  this  question  of  boun-  : 
dary  is  to  come  up  afterwards  or  not  is  a  { 
serious  one.     Here  we  are  cast  where  ?    At  ', 
anchor.     The  United  States,  wliich  has  been  ; 
our  guardian  for  a  number  of  years  gone  by, 
has  now  said  to  us  in  effect :     "  You  are  old 
"  enough  to  do  for  yourselves.    Go  and  so  do. 
"  We  will  give  you  no  more  appropriations. 
"  You  must  go  and  work  your  own  way." 
Now,  suppose  we  go  and  tear  up  this  propo- 
sition which  the  United  States  offers,  and 
strike  out  in  a  new  course,  where  shall  we  be 
left?     At  sea,  without  compass  or  rudder; 
perfectly  at  sea.     "VTe  make  a  Constitution 
there,  not  under  the  Enabling  Act ;  we  reject 
that  in  the  start,  and  go  on  our  own  hooks ; 
we  become  squatter  sovereigns  of  the  deepest 
dye.     We  say  we  will  have  our  own  boun- 
daries, and  the  United  States  may.weU  reply : 
'•  Gentlemen,  if  you  reject  om*  proposition, 
"you  may  support  your  own  schools,  you 
"may  build  your  own  imiversity,  you  may  i 
"  g^t  your  own  five  per  cent,  of  the  net  pro-  , 
"ceetls  of  the  sales  of  the  public  lands  for 
"  public  buildings."    That  is  what  the  United 
States  would  have  the  right  to  say. 

But  there  is  another  view  of  this  matter 
which  is  important.  The  language  of  the 
Enabling  Act  is  peculiar.  We  become  a 
State  as  soon  as  we  have  complied  with  that 
act  The  language  is  that  they  shall  hecome 
a  Stnte  when  they  have  complied  with  the 
terms  proposed.  All  we  have  to  do  is  to 
adopt  a  Constitution  that  is  consistent  with 
the  Constitution  of  the  United  States,  elect 
our  own  oflScers,  go  to  the  door  of  Congress, 
and  demand  admission,  and  we  come  right  in. 
We  accept  of  the  conditions  proposed  to  us, 
and  eo  imtante  we  are  a  State  sovereignty  of 
this  Union.  But  let  us  go  to  work  and  form 
a  Constitution  upon  squatter  sovereign  prin- 
ciples, and  they  may  become  squatter  sover- 
eigns too. 

Sir,  I  believe  Congress  has  the  right  to 
care  for  the  Territories,  and  not  only  that  she 
has  the  right,  but  that  it  is  her  bounden  duty. 
So  long  as  the  men  who  live  there  go  volun- 
tarily on  the  land  of  the  United  States,  take 
its  money  and  live  under  its  protection,  so 


long  it  is  their  duty  to  submit  to  the  guidance 
of  the  United  States.  Children  who  cannot 
walk,  who  cannot  provide  for  themselves, 
should  not  dress  themselves  in  their  parents' 
clothes. 

The  door  is  wide  open,  and  let  us  come  in 
on  the  terms  proposed.  I  will  not  debate 
the  question  of  the  r^tive  advantage  of  a 
north  and  south  or  east  and  west  line.  I  am 
content  to  tal:e  this  proposition  as  it  comes  to 
us.  Adopt  that  and  we  come  into  the  Union 
within  the  next  year.  Adopt  another  line 
and  we  come  in,  who  knows  when  ?  Here  ia 
another  question,  and  in  this  Republican  Con- 
vention, I  need  not  hint  what  may  be  the 
probable  result.  Next  winter,  in  all  proba- 
bility, there  will  be  an  application  to  admit 
Kansas  into  the  Union.  If  we  comply  with 
the  terms  proposed,  we  cannot  be  denied 
admission  without  a  breach  of  feith ;  but  let 
us  reject  those  terms,  and  we  may  be  told 
that  We  cannot  come  into  the  Union  with  our 
free  Constitution  vmtil  Kansas  also  comes  in 
with  her  slave  Constitution. 

So.  far  as  the  relative  advantages  of  these 
State  lines  are  concerned,  I  have  not  deter- 
mined in  my  own  mind  which  carries  with  it 
the  greatest  advantages.  If  anything,  I  think 
the  north  and  south  line  is  the  better  line  of 
the  two ;  but  whether  that  be  so  or  not,  we 
came  here  as  practical  men,  and  as  practical 
men,  let  us  not  put  into  our  Constitution 
anything 'which  shall  endanger  its  acceptance 
in  Congress  or  by  the  people;  for,  let  our 
Constitution  be  rejected,  and  the  expenses  of 
this  Convention— $50,000,  $60,000  or  $100,- 
000 — will  have  to  be  borne  by  ourselves,  and 
win  be  worse  than  thrown  away.  The  people 
of  the  Territorj'  have,  in  my  opinion,  deter- 
mined already  that  we  shall  have  a  north  and 
south  line  by  electing  delegates  to  this  Con- 
vention under  an  act  prescribing  that  line. 
And  I  take  it  for  granted,  that  this  line  was 
not  adopted  without  a  reason.  It  was  adopt- 
ed, after  examining  the  geography  of  the 
country,  as  the  better  line.  A  great  many 
wise  men  and  good  men  acquainted  with  the, 
coimtry,  tell  me  that  the  north  and  south 
line  is  the  best  line.  Others,  equally  wise 
and  good,  say  that  the  east  and  west  line  is 
better.  But  I  submit  it  to  this  committee, 
whether  as  Republicans  and  good  citizens  we 
should  not  accept  this  proposition  as  it  comes 


10 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Monday,  Jllt  IS. 


to  us  from  Congress,  with  the  boundaries  de- 
fined by  Congress  ?  x\t  any  rate,  let  us  dis- 
cuss the  question  calmly  and  dispassionately, 
and  if  gentlemen  can  show  good  reasons  for  a 
different  course,  I  have  no  feeling  in  the  mat- 
ter. 

Mr.  McCLURE.  If  we,  by  a  vote,  deter- 
mine that  we  will  not  accept  the  proposition 
made  by  Congress,  I  presume  our  services 
are  at  an  end,  and  we  have  no  authority  here 
whatever  to  go  on  and  form  a  Constitution  as 
a  Constitutional  Convention.  As  such  Con- 
vention we  have  authority,  by  the  Enabling 
Act,  to  say  nothing  and  do  nothing  as  to  an 
east  and  west  line.  Congress  has  passed  an 
act,  and  made  provision  by  which  we  may 
come  in  as  a  State  on  an  even  footing  with 
the  original  States,  provided  that  when  we 
assemble  in  this  Constitutional  Convention, 
we  say  by  a  vote  that  we  wUl  accept  the 
terms  proposed  in  that  act.  A  refusal  to  ac- 
cept them  is  equivalent  to  saying  we  will  go 
home,  for  surely  no  individual  will  sit  here 
after  that  refusal.  If  we  do  accept  of  the 
terms,  then,  so  far  as  the  line  is  concerned,  it 
is  fixed  by  Congress,  and  we  can  go  on  and 
frame  a  Constitution.  If  we  do  not  accept 
them,  we  may  as  well  go  home  and  wait  un- 
til some  other  provision  is  made  to  enable  us 
to  come  into  the  Union  on  an  equal  footing 
with  the  orignal  States. 

I  have  no  interest  in  a  north  and  south 
line,  any  more  than  I  have  in  an  east  and 
west  line ;  but  I  have  an  interest,  as  a  citizen 
of  the  Territory  of  Minnesota,  within  the 
boimds  prescribed  by  the  act  of  Congress,  in 
common  with  very  many  at  least,  to  cease  to 
be  a  Territory,  and  to  come  in  as  a  State; 
and  if  I  had  any  pecuniary  interest  in  tMs 
matter,  I  should  sacrifice  it  in  order  to  get 
out  of  the  condition  in  which  we  are  now 
placed.  We  cannot  form  a  Constitution,  ex- 
cept for  the  limits  prescribed  by  the  Enabling 
Act,  and  consequently  I  am  in  favor  of  ac- 
cepting the  terms  of  that  act,  and  going  on 
and  framing  a  Constitution.  Suppose  we  re- 
fuse to  accept  the  terms,  we  may  as  well,  as 
I  said  before,  go  home.  Suppose  we  do  go 
home,  and  to-morrow  at  twelve  o'clock  an- 
other Convention,  headed  by  a  government 
oflBccr,  shall  organize  a  Convention  and  accept 
the  proposed  terms,  they  will  go  on — because 
they  will  do  almost  anything  illegal — and 


frame  a  Constitution,  submit  it  to  the  people, 
and  if  the  Republicans  do  not  go  out  and  vote 
upon  it,  of  course  it  will  be  adopted,  and  the 
Republicans  will  have  come  here,  organized, 
but  refused  to  do  that  for  which  they  were 
sent.  For  one,  I  do  not  feel  like  going  home 
in  that  way.  I  hope  gentlemen  of  the  Con- 
vention will  express  their  views  freely  upon 
this  point,  and  come  to  a  determination  as 
soon  as  possible. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  I  desire  to  under- 
stand where  I  stand,  the  position  I  occupy, 
and  the  step  I  am  about  to  take.  It  seems 
to  me  that  it  does  not  require  a  great  amount 
of  discrimination  to  discern  between  the  right 
of  the  inhabitants  of  a  certain  tract  of  land  to 
perform  a  certain  act — for  instance,  to  elect 
certain  individuals  to  represent  them  in  Con- 
vention— and  the  acts  and  conduct  of  their 
representatives  when  assembled  in  Conven- 
tion for  the  purpose  of  doing  what  they  were 
sent  here  to  do.  I  do  not  understand,  as 
stated  by  the  gentleman  from  Scott  county 
[Mr.  Galbraith],  that  the  moment  we  adopt 
this  resolution  we  become  a  State,  and  that 
Congress  has  no  right  or  authority  to  say 
that  we  are  not  a  State,  and  not  entitled  to 
admission  into  the  Union  as  a  State.  Sup- 
pose that  nothing  had  been  done  under  the 
Enabling  Act,  except  the  election  of  members 
to  the  Convention,  do  we  thereby  adopt  the 
whole  of  that  Enabling  Act,  so  as  to  bind 
ourselves  to  the  limits  proposed  by  that  act  ? 
By  no  means.  Suppose  we  simply  convene 
here,  organize,  choose  our  officers,  and  take 
no  further  steps,  do  we  adopt  the  provisions 
of  that  act  in  such  a  manner  as  to  preclude 
ourselves  from  saying  that  we  desire  a  difler- 
cnt  boundary?  When  we  sunply  say  that 
the  people  of  the  proposed  State  desire  to  bo 
admitted  into  the  Union  on  an  equal  footing 
with  the  original  States,  do  we  say  that  we 
adopt  the  limits  proposed  by  Congress,  and 
that  they  are  perpetually  binding  upon  us  as 
a  State  ?  I  do  not  so  understand  it.  If  we 
compare  this  act  with  the  Enabling  Act  of 
Michigan,  wo  shall  find  it  substantially  the 
same.  Yet  it  was  not  the  understanding  of  the 
Michigan  Convention,  organized  under  it,  that 
the  limits  proposed  by  Congress  were  perpe- 
tually binding  upon  them,  for  if  they  had,  in 
my  judgment,  they  would  have  recommended 
a  different  boundary. 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Monday,  July  13. 


IT 


I  wish  my  finends  to  discriminate  between 
a  State  to  be  organized  within  the  proposed 
limits,  and  the  vote  we  are  now  called  upon 
to  ^ve,  which  is  substantially  that  the  people 
of  the  proposed  State  desire  a  State  organiza- 
tion, and  to  come  into  the  Union  as  one  of  the 
States.  "When  we  take  this  vote,  and  vote  in 
the  affirmative,  we  are  not,  as  I  stated  before, 
a  State,  but  we  must  go  on  and  make  a  Con- 
stitution. If  we  ne^ect  to  do  that,  are  we  a 
State?  Not  by  any  means.  Suppose  We 
frame  a  Constitution  and  neglect  to  have  it 
ratified  by  the  people,  are  we  then  a  State 
standing  upon  an  equal  footing  with  other 
States  ?  By  no  means.  We  are  not  a  State 
until  certain  resolutions  are  passed  by  Con- 
gress, sanctioning  our  form  of  government  as 
being  republican,  and  sanctioning  our  pro- 
ceedings as  being  carried  on  under  the  Ena- 
bling Act, 

There  is  a  distinction  between  the  adoption 
of  this  resolution,  and  the  binding  of  ourselves 
down  perpetually  to  the  proposed  limits  men- 
tioned in  the  Enabling  Act;  and  I  want 
members  of  this  Convention  to  look  upon  it 
in  that  light,  if  it  looks  reasonable  to  them. 

I  am  in  favor  of  adopting  this  resolution,  or 
something  substantially  the  same ;  of  placing 
ourselves  in  a  position  to  frame  a  Constitu- 
tion, and  then  of  going  before  the  people  and 
telling  them  that  we  have  done  oxur  duty 
faithfully. 

If  I  were  to  prophecy,  it  would  be  that 
nearly  two  years  will  elapse  before  we  be- 
come a  State.  My  impression  is  that  under 
the  present  Administration,  whatever  Consti- 
tution is  adopted  by  tliis  Convention,  as  at 
present  organized,  that  Constitution,  though 
ratified  by  a  very  large  majority  of  the  in- 
habitants of  the  Territory,  wiU  not  be  ac- 
cepted by  Congress.  For  this  reason,  I  de- 
sire that  this  question  and  all  other  questions 
be  distinctly,  perfectly  and  clearly  imder- 
stood.  The  idea  that  the  moment  we  adopt 
this  resolution  we  are  bound  down  to  these 
limits,  is  preposterous,  and  is  not  foimded  in 
either  precedent,  common  sense,  or  thfe  Ena- 
bling Act. 

Mr.  BILLINGS.  Whether  the  people  of 
this  Territory  have  the  right  or  not  to  meet 
and  frame  a  Constitution  and  State  govern- 
ment, without  any  assent  upon  the  part  of 
Congress,  I  do  not  propose  to  discuss.     But 


the  first  part  of  this  Enabling  Act  gives  to  the 
people  of  certain  portions  of  this  Territory 
the  right  to  form  a  State  Constitution.  The 
latter  part  of  it,  after  giving  the  boimdaries, 
reads  thus : 

"They  are  hereby  authorized  to  form  for  thetn» 
selves  a  Constitution  and  State  government  by  tha 
name  of  the  State  of  Minnesota." 

Now,  the  Enabling  Act  does  not  give  to 
the  Territory  of  Minnesota  the  right  to  form 
this  government,  but  only  to  the  inhabitants 
of  a  specific  portion  thereofl  In  our  reason- 
ings then,  \ve  hold  that  members  elected  and 
returned  in  precincts  beyond  the  proposed 
boimdaries,  cannot  sit  in  Convention.  Now, 
if  they  cannot,  because  they  are  beyond  the 
proposed  boundaries,  how  can  we,  within  the 
proposed  boundaries,  legislate  for  those  we 
would  exclude  frt)m  certain  boundaries  ? 

The  third  section  provides  for  the  election 
of  delegates,  and  the  latter  clause  of  it  tells 
us  that  when  we  meet,  we  are  to  "  determine 
"  by  a  vote."  "Who  to  meet  ?  The  delegates 
chosen  within  the  boundaries  of  the  proposed 
State.  "What  to  determine?  ""Whether  it 
"  is  the  wish  of  the  people  of  the  proposed 
"  State  to  be  admitted  into  the  Union  at  this 
time,"  as  such  proposed  State.  "  As  such," 
to  be  sure,  is  not  expressed,  but  it  is  imder- 
stood.  And  if  they  do  so  determine,  they 
"shall  proceed  to  form  a  Constitution,  and 
"take  all  necessary  steps  for  the  establish- 
"  ment  of  a  State  government." 

Again,  the  fourth  section  says  that  "  in  the 
"  event  said  Convention  shall  decide  in  fiivor 
"  of  the  immediate  admission  of  the  proposed 
"  State  into  the  Union,  it  shall  be  the  duty  of 
"  the  United  States  Marshal  for  said  Territory 
«'  to  proceed  to  take  a  census."  Now,  if  we 
propose  to  form  a  State  with  boundaries  dif- 
ferent from  those  proposed  in  this  act,  the 
Marshal  is  not  obliged  to  take  a  census. 

The  fifth  section  offers  certain  propositions 
to  the  "  said  Convention  of  the  people  of  Min- 
"  nesota."  If  the  people  accept  the  offered 
boimdaries,  then  the  people  of  that  Terrritory 
shall  have  the  right  to  do  so  and  so. 

There  are  questions  which,  in  my  mind, 
outweigh  the  question  of  boundary;  and  it 
occurs  to  me  that,  if  we  desire  an  immediate 
adnMssion  into  the  Union  as  a  sovereign  State, 
we  have  but  one  road  to  pursue — we  must 
accept  of  tiie  conditions  without  change. 
3 


18 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES -Monday,  July  13. 


Think  you  the  Republicans  in  Convention  in 
Minnesota,  can  dictate  to  our  superiors  not 
only  in  the  Territory — I  speak  of  them  as 
oflScers  and  not  as  men — but  to  an  Adminis- 
tration which  will  be  adverse  to  the  ruling  of 
this  Convention,  and  succeed  ?  Certainly  not. 
Hence  my  vote  now  is,  and  always  must  be, 
to  accept,  without  restriction  or  enlargement, 
•the  conditions  imposed  upon  us  by  the  Ena- 
bling Act. 

Mr.  WILSON.  The  second  resolution  is 
offered  as  a  substitute  for  the  first,  and,  as  a 
•substitute,  is  amendable.  For  the  purpose 
of  harmonizing  the  feelings  of  those  here  who 
may  be  in  favor  of  different  boundaries,  I 
■propose  to  offer  an  amendment  to  the  substi- 
tute. I  do  not  conceive  it  necessary  or  wise, 
-at  the  present  time,  to  raise  the  question  of 
boundary  at  all.  For  my  own  part,  I  proba- 
bly agree  with  both  parties.  I  believe  that 
Congress  has  the  right  to  prescribe  our 
boundaries,  if  they  so  choose.  I  believe  also 
that  we  are  not  required  to  pursue  that  boun- 
dary and  that  only ;  yet,  if  we  vary  from  it, 
we  may  be  rejected.  I  do  not  believe  it 
necessary,  before  a  Territory  assumes  a  State 
.government,  that  there  should  be  any  Ena- 
bling Act,  nor  do  I  suppose  that  if  there  be, 
we  must  follow  it  out  in  minutia.  We  may 
make  such  changes  as  we  see  fit,  and  then 
Congress  may  act  upon  it.  But  at  the  pres- 
ent time,  I  do  not  wish  to  raise  the  question 
of  boundary  at  all.  I  wish  to  accept  the  act 
unqualifiedly,  I  will  read  the  Enabling  Act, 
and  then  read  my  amendment,  which  I  hope 
will  be  satisfactory ,  to  all  parties,  and  do 
away  with  this  question  for  the  present  Sec- 
tion three,  after  first  stating  how  the  dele- 
gates shall  be  elected  and  where  they  shall 
meet,  says  they  shall  "first  determine  by 
"  vote  whether  it  is  the  wish  of  the  people  of 
"  the  proposed  State  to  be  admitted  into  the 
"  Union  at  this  time,  &c." 

That  is  what  we  are  to  vote  upon  and 
nothing  else.  Now,  I  propose  the  following 
substitute : 

"  Resoli>ed,  That  it  is,  at  this  time,  the  wish  of 
the  people  residing  within  the  limits  designated 
in  the  act  of  Congress  approved 

entitled  '  an  act  to  authorize  the  people  of 
the  Territorj-  of  Minnesota  to  form  a  Constitution 
and  State  government,  preparatory  to  their  ad- 
mission into  the  Union  on  an  equal  footing  with 


the  original  States,'  to  be  admitted  into  the  Union 
upon  an  equal  footing  with  the  original  States." 

This  amendment  is  framed  in  the  very 
words  of  the  Enabhng  Act.  That  is  all,  I 
think,  that  is  necessary  in  this  case.  It 
leaves  the  matter  of  boundary  untouched. 
If  we  must  discuss  it  at  all,  this  is  not  the 
time  to  do  so.  No  man  can  feel  that  this  re- 
solution will  prejudice  us,  because  it  was  the 
very  language  of  the  Enabling  Act.  I  would 
like  to  see  this  adopted  as  a  substitute,  and 
the  others  waived,  not  because  I  differ  from 
them  altogether,  though  each  is  objectionable 
in  some  respects. 

Mr.  HUDSON.  So  far  as  the  substitute 
of  the  gentleman  from  Winona  [Mr.  Wilson] 
is  concerned,  I  really  do  not  understand  that 
it  differs  from  the  resolution  as  proposed  to 
be  amended  by  Mr.  Coggswell.  Each  is 
simply  a  declaration  that  the  people  of  Min- 
nesota desire  to  become  a  State.  It  seems 
that  we  are  acting  under  a  certain  act  of 
Congress,  which  provides  that  the  people 
shall  meet  on  a  certain  day,  elect  certain  dele- 
gates to  appear  at  a  certain  time  and  place  to 
perform  certain  business.  Now,  it  seems  to 
me  a  very  plain  matter  that,  if  the  people  had 
met  on  any  other  day  than  the  one  specified 
in  the  act,  we  should  not  be  delegates  such 
as  could  act  under  this  Enabling  Act.  It 
also  seems  to  me  that  if  the  delegates  elected 
had  met  at  any  other  place  than  the  one  de- 
signated in  the  act,  they  could  not  make  a 
Constitution  such  as  Congress  would  accept. 
Congress  has  provided  for  our  coming  into 
the  Union  upon  certain  conditions,  and  the 
moment  we  comply  with  all  those  conditions, 
we  become  a  State.  Whenever  we  step  out- 
side of  the  limits  specified  in  that  Enabling 
Act,  we  cease  to  be  delegates  competent  to 
act  under  the  law,  but  should  be  here  simply 
as  an  independent  body  of  men,  without  dele- 
gated power.  Yet,  under  such  circumstances, 
should  we  form  a  Constitution  which  should 
be  ratified  by  the  people,  and  Congress  should 
be  willing  to  admit  us  after  examining  the 
matter,  it  would  be  all  right.  But  Congress 
says  that  after  we  have  done  certain  acts  wo 
are  a  State.  They  will  have  to  take  cogni- 
zance of  our  proceedings,  and  unless  they 
can  show  that  we  have  stepped  outside  of  the 
privileges  they  gave  us,  we  shall  have  a  right 
to  claim  our  place  in  the  Union  with  all  the 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Mosdat,  Jclt  13. 


!»• 


i^ts  and  privileges  of  States.  Such  seems 
to  me  to  be  the  whole  matter,  and  I  must 
support  the  original  resolution,  rather  than 
the  substitute,  not  because  they  essentially 
differ  so  much  as  because  I  am  opposed  to 
encimiberiug  our  proceedings  by  a  succession 
of  resolutions  of  substantially  the  same  effect. 

Mr.  PERKINS.  By  the  Enabling  Act,  we 
are  to  determine  by  a  vote  whether  the  peo- 
ple in  the  proposed  limits  vrish  to  come  in  as 
a  State,  according  to  the  Enabling  Act.  Does 
the  resolution  say  "  according  to  the  Enabling 
"Act?"  "      ' 

The  PRESIDING  OFFICER.    It  does  not 

Mr.  PERKINS.  Well,  it  seems  to  me  that 
the  question  whether  the  dividing  line  shall 
nm  east  and  west  or  north  and  south  does 
not  properly  arise  in  this  debate.  The  ques- 
tion is  simply  whether  the  people  in  the  pre- 
scribed limits  wish  to  come  in  as  a  State.  It 
is  not  a  question  as  to  the  particular  form  of 
the  State,  or  whether  anybody  outside  of 
those  limits  wish  to  come  in  as  the  proposed 
State.  If  any  gentleman  here  knows  of  any 
one  who  does  not  wish  to  come  in  as  the  pro- 
posed State,  let  him  say  so.  We  are  to 
determine  the  simple  question  whether  the 
people  within  the  prescribed  limits  have  such 
a  wish  ?  Let  that  be  first  determined,  and 
we  can  decide  the  shape  of  the  State  after- 
wards. I  presimie  no  man's  constituency 
desires  not  to  come  in  as  a  State.  I  know 
there  has  been  a  question  as  to  how  the  line 
should  be  run,  but  as  to  the  other  matter 
there  is  no  question. 

I  see  no  difference  between  the  ori^al 
resolution  and  the  substitute  offered  by  the 
gentleman  firom  Winona  [Mr.  Wilsox].  At 
any  rate,  I  agree  with  him  that  the  question 
as  to  the  line  is  not  iDvolved  in  this  proceed- 
ing. 

Mr.  MANTOR.  I  conceive  that  there  is  a 
question  of  vital  importance  involved  in  the 
resolution  before  the  Convention,  and  in  re- 
ference to  which  our  constituents  are  looking 
to  us  with  great  interest  to  know  exactly  how 
we  cast  our  votes  thereon.  They  are  looking 
with  deep  interest  to  see  in  what  mode  and 
manner  this  Convention  will  dispose  of  the 
boundaries  of  the  incoming  State.  I  can  see 
nothing  in  the  Enabhng  Act  which  would 
prescribe  any  measure  which  this  Convention 
might  see  fit  to  take  hereafter  to  establish  an 


east  and  west  or  a  north  and  south  line.  The 
resolution  should  leave  that  matter  an  open 
question.  The  question  to-day  seems  to  be, 
are  we  wiUing  to  become  a  sovereign  State  ? 
and  to  that  question  I  answer,  as  an  indivi- 
dual member  of  the  Convention,  "  yes,"  and 
for  it  I  heartily  give  my  vote.  I  am  aware 
that  the  eyes  of  the  whole  Territory  are  upon 
us  to  see  what  measxu^s  will  be  taken  in 
this  Convention  in  reference  to  the  proposed 
limits  of  the  State.  I  conceive  that  it  is  bet- 
ter for  us,  imder  the  peculiar  circumstances 
by  which  we  are  svurounded,  to  assume  the 
ground  at  least  to-day  that  we  will  become  a 
State,  for  if  we  leave  without  so  doing,  a 
great  advantage  may  be  taken  of  our  ne^ect. 
Our  constituents  demand  immediate  action, 
and  will  blame  us  if  we  postjwne  it.  K  we 
cannot  come  at  once  to  a  conclusion  upon 
this  point,  I  conceive  it  would  be  far  better 
for  this  Convention  to  dissolve  itself,  rather 
than  remain  in  committee  forty-eight  hours  to 
discuss  a  question  which  seems  to  be  the 
turning  point — and  that  is  whether  we  wish 
to  become  a  State. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  The  gentieman  upon  my 
right  [Mr.  Wilsox]  gives,  as  the  first  reason 
why  we  should  support  his  amendment,  that 
this  is  not  the  time  to  decide  the  question  of 
the  boimdaries  of  the  State.  I  cannot  agree 
with  him  in  that  respect.  I  believe  that  this 
is  the  time  to  meet  the  question,  and  to  meet 
it  fully  and  fairly.  I  beheve  it  should  be  de- 
cided now,  in  the  incipient  stages  of  our  pro- 
ceedings. Suppose  that  we  simply  declare 
that  the  people  of  the  proposed  State  desire 
to  be  admitted  into  the  Union  at  the  present 
time,  without  defining  the  boundaries  in  any 
way  or  manner,  what  will  be  the  result  so  far 
as  it  relates  to  our  action '?  Suppose  we  ap- 
point, among  other  committees,  one  upon 
"  boundaries,"  and  they  should  make  a  re- 
port, which  should  be  adopted  in  the  Con- 
vention, in  favor  of  an  east  and  west  line, 
what  would  be  the  result  ?  We  should  find- 
men  in  this  Convention  living  without  the 
limits  of  the  proposed  State,  and  consequent- 
ly having  no  right  to  participate  in  the  pro- 
ceedings of  this  Convention.  If  they  have 
no  right  to  participate  in  our  proceedings,  we 
shall  be  under  the  necessity  of  excluding 
them. 

It  is  true,  as  gentlemen  have  argued,  thai 


fO 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Monday,  Jclv  13. 


we  can,  if  we  choose,  adopt  different  bounda- 
ries from  those  prescribed  in  the  Enabling 
Act ;  but  the  effect  of  such  a  course  would 
be  most  serious  upon  the  acts  of  this  Con- 
vention. The  Enabling  Act  commences  in 
these  words :  "  That  the  inhabitants  of  that 
"  portion  of  the  Territory  of  Minnesota  which 
"is  embraced  within  the  following  limits," 
and  then  proceeds  to  define  the  boundaries 
precisely.  The  third  section  provides  "  that 
•*'  on  the  first  Monday  of  June  next,  the  legal 
"voters  in  each  representative  district  then 
"existing  within  the  limits  of  the  proposed 
"State."  What  proposed  State?  The  one 
proposed  within  the  bpundaries  prescribed  in 
the  first  section,  and  the  voters  within  those 
limits,  are  the  ones  entitled  to  elect  delegates 
to  the  Convention.  They  have  thus  far  com- 
plied with  the  provisions  of  the  act,  by  elect- 
ing delegates.  If  we,  in  Convention,  estab- 
lish a  different  line,  we  repudiate  the  act,  cut 
ourselves  loose  from  it,  and  release  Congress 
from  all  obligation  upon  their  part,  so  far  as 
this  act  is  concerned.  If,  _assuming  different 
boundaries,  we  go  on  and  frame  a  Constitu- 
tion and  State  government.  Congress  may  or 
may  not  accept  us,  as  they  choose.  But 
there  will  not  be  even  an  implied  obligation 
upon  their  part.  I  believe  the  people  have 
the  right  to  frame  a  State  Constitution  with- 
out an  Enabling  Act  of  Congress,  but  having 
accepted  it  by  electing  delegates,  it  seems  to 
me  the  height  of  folly  to  cut  ourselves  loose 
from  it,  and  adopt  a  course  which  is  not  ex- 
pected of  us  by  our  constituents.  I  propose 
to  meet  this  question  before  we  proceed  any 
further,  and  if  any  members  of  the  Conven- 
tion have  to  leave  their  seats  on  account  of 
our  decision,  adopting  another  line,  let  them 
know  it,  so  that  they  may  leave  now.  So  fiir 
ae  my  own  feelings  are  concerned,  they  are 
in  favor  of  an  east  and  west  line ;  but  I  am 
.•satisfied  that  if  we  cut  ourselves  loose  from 
the  act,  there  will  be  the  best  possible  excuse 
on  the  part  of  Congress  for  rejecting  us.  ' 

The  Enabling  Act  itself  passed  by  a  very 
Rmall  majority,  and  the  Southern  vote  was 
quite  unanimously  against  it.  If  we  send  a 
Constitution  to  Congress  with  different  boun- 
daries, ^nd  thereby  distract  the  small  major- 
ity by  which  we  got  this  act,  the  probability 
is  that  we  shall  be  rejected  by  Congress,  and 
kept  out  of  the   Union  two  or  three  years 


longer,  a  result  which  would  suit  quite  a  large 
portion  of  this  Union.  For  one,  for  the  pur- 
pose of  having  my  preferences  gratified,  I  am 
not  billing  to  run  that  risk ;  and,  therefore,  I 
shall  be  obliged  to  vote  against  the  resolution 
of  the  gentleman  from  Winona  [Mr.  Wilson], 
upon  the  ground  that  it  avoids  a  decision  of 
the  question  of  boundary,  and  because  I  de- 
sire a  resolution  to  be  adopted  which  will 
embrace  exactly  the  boundaries  defined  in 
the  Enabling  Act. 

The  question  was  then  taken  on  the  sub- 
stitute offered  by  Mr.  Wilson,  and  it  was 
not  agreed  to. 

The  question  was  next  taken  upon  the 
substitute  offered  by  Mr.  Coggswell,  and 
there  were  on  a  division,  ayes  15,  noes  31. 
So  the  substitute  was  lost. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  I  now  move  that  the 
committee  rise  and  report  back  the  original 
resolution  to  the  House,  wdth  a  recommenda- 
tion that  it  be  adopted.  , 

The  motion  was  agreed  to. 

So  the  coromittee  rose,  and  the  President 
having  resumed  the  chair,  Mr.  Noetii  reported 
back  the  resolution,  with  a  recommendation 
that  it  do  pass. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  I  now  move  to  amend 
the  resolution  by  striking  out  the  word  "  in- 
" habitants"  and  inserting  the  word  "peo- 
"  pie,"  and  by  striking  out  the  words  "  pro- 
"  posed  limits"  and  inserting  the  words 
"  proposed  State."  I  have  no  feeling  in  this 
matter.  I  only  wish  to  place  the  resolution 
in  a  position  where  it  cannot  be  misconstrued. 

The  amendment  was  agreed  to. 

Mr.  WILSON.  I  shall  be  very  brief,  but 
I  cannot  consent  that  this  resolution  should 
pass  without  expressing  myself  distinctly.  I 
am  a  little  astonished  at  the  course  which  has 
been  taken  by  this  Convention.  I  should 
much  preferred  to  have  seen  a  resolution 
passed  which  would  have  complied  with  the 
requisitions  of  the  Enabling  Act,  without 
raising  the  question  of  boundary  at  this  time. 

Wc  have  not  the  full  number  of  delegates 
elected  to  tliis  Convention  present,  and  it 
seems  to  mo  it  would  be  much  better,  if  it  is 
not  absolutely  requisite,  that  there  should  be 
something  like  unanimity  in  the  passage  of  a 
resolution  of  this  kind.  All  of  us  are  in  favor 
of  coming  into  the  Union  under  the  J^nabling 
Act,  but  all  of  us  are  not  in  favor  of  coming 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Monday,  July  13. 


21 


in  according  to  tlie  teiins  of  the  Enabling  Act.  ; 
And  why   is  this  boundan'  question  forced  \ 
•         upon  us  in  this  manner  ?     It  is  for  the  pur-  | 
pose  of  compelling  us  to  adopt  the  proposed  j 
boundary,  in  order  to  corflply  with  the  terms 
of  the  act  relative  to  our  ^ish  to  come  in  as  a  I 
State.     It  is  for  that  purpose,  and  members  , 
feeling  like  myself  upon  this  question  do  well  | 
to  understand  it  distinctly.     It  is  here  for  the 
purpose  of  compelling  us  to  act  without  pre- 
paration.    "We  are  most,  if  not  all  of  us,  here 
not  expecting  that  we  should  be  called  on  to 
act  on  this  boundary  question  at  this  time. 
We  have  thought  of  it  but  a  few  horns,  and 
we  are  not  read}-  to  decide  it.     It  should  not 
be  decided  without  full  deliberation. 

Sir,  I  know  the  origin  of  the  boundary  line 
laid  down  in  that  Enabling  Act.  I  know  its 
inception  m  Congress.  I  know  how  it  got 
there.  I  know  it  was  not  the  ^-ish  of  the 
people  of  Southern  Minnesota — and  we  are 
no  small  minority  in  the  Territory.  Mr.  Pre- 
sident, representing  a  constituency  who  feel 
deeply  upon  this  subject,  I  protest  against 
this  question  being  decided  in  such  a  resolu- 
tion as  this.  It  is  imnecessary.  "We  may 
pass  a  resolution  which  shall  in  every  respect 
comply  with  the  requisitions  of  the  Enabling 
Act,  without  touching  the  question  of  boun- 
dary at  all. 

But  it  has  been  said  that  this  boundary 
w^  was  inserted  in  the  Enabling  Act,  in  pur- 
"*  suance  of  the  petitions  which  were  sent  from 
the  Territory.  No  sir.  There  was  no  such 
thing.  The  largest  nimiber  of  those  peti- 
tions went  from  Winona  and  the  coimtry 
adjacent,  and  ninety  out  of  a  hundred  of  the 
signers  were  in  favor  of  an  east  and  west  line. 
The  parties  who  signed  those  petitions  pro- 
tested against  their  being  used  as  induce- 
ments for  the  establishment  of  a  boundary 
to  which  they  were  opposed. 

Sir,  our  interest,  we  conceive,  will  not  be 
satisfied  with  a  north  and  south  line.  We 
have  to-day  witnessed  scenes  in  this  hall 
which  will  be  reenacted,  if  this  boundary  line 
be  confirmed.  And  why?  It  is  notorious 
that  Saint  Paul  has  controlled  the  Territory 
of  Minnesota  up  to  this  time.  They  have 
done  it,  how  ?  Have  they  done  it  as  rowdies 
and  blackguards  or  as  gentlemen,  by  forca  of 
moral  suasion  and  force  of  reason  ?  Answer, 
ye  delegates,  answer,  for  ye  know.    The  rea- 


sons are  obvious  why  this  should  not  be  a 
State  extending  from  Superior  to  the  Iowa 
Une.  The  southern  portion  of  this  State  is 
all  agricultural.  The  interests  of  its  inhabi- 
tants are  diverse  from  those  of  Saint  Paul, 
and  from  those  of  the  northern  section  of  the 
Territory.  Adopt  the  north  and  south  line, 
and  Saint  Paul  will  forever  have  the  manage- 
ment of  the  State  in  her  own  hands.  It  must 
necessarily  be  so,  and  what  discord  will  it 
create  in  our  Legislatures  ?  We  shall  have 
to  meet  this  [thing  year  after  year.  I  warn 
gentiemen  to  beware  before  they  act.  The 
favorers  of  this  north  and  south  line  have 
taken  us  at  the  very  commencement,  and 
with  the  very  best  feeling  towards  them,  I 
say  let  us  meet  them  too  at  the  threshold, 
and  not  permit  this  important  question  to  be 
decided  without  mature  deliberation.  That 
is  aU  I  ask.  I  am  willing  that  the  Conven- 
tion should  act  promptly,  so  far  as  is  neces- 
sary to  comply  with  the  requisitions  of  the 
Enabling  Act ;  and  I  shall  be  ready  and  wil- 
ling to  meet  the  question  of  boundary  here- 
after when  it  shaU  arise.  The  point  I  wish 
to  make  now  is,  that  it  is  imnecessary  at  this 
time  to  decide  the  question. 

Mr.  BOBBINS.  At  the  present  stage  of 
our  proceedings,  I  do  not  feel  that  I  could 
do  justice  either  to  myself  or  my  constituency, 
were  I  to  undertake  to  answer  the  arguments 
that  have  been  introduced  here  to-day  in  favor 
of  a  north  and  south  line.  It  is  a  subject  I 
did  not  anticipate  would  be  opened  at  this 
stage  of  oiu-  proceedings.  But,  gentlemen, 
all  I  ask  is  that  you  will  allow  this  subject 
to  go  over  AntiU  to-morrow,  and  we  will  be 
ready  to  meet  you  upon  this  north  and  south 
line.  I  hope  the  resolution  will  be  laid  on 
the  table  until  that  time. 

Mr.  NORTH.  I  concur  fully  in  the  senti- 
ment of  the  resolution  before  us;  but  its 
form,  it  seems  to  me,  is  somewhat  compli- 
cated. I  think  perhaps  the  phraseology  may 
be  improved  in  some  respects,  leaving  the 
meaning  precisely  the  same.  I  have  pre- 
pared a  substitute,  which  I  will  read  to  the 
Convention,  if  it  is  in  order : 

"  Jiesolved,  That  it  is  the  wish  of  the  people  of 
the  proposed  State  of  Minnesota  to  be  admitted 
into  the  Union  at  this  time,  in  accordance  with  the 
provisions  of  the  act  of  Congress  entitled  '  an  act 
to  authorize  the  people  of  the  Territory  of  Minne- 
sota to  form  a  CoiistitutioD  and  State  government, 


22 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Monday,  Jilt  18. 


preparatory  to  their  adinissiofi  into  the  Union  on 
au  equal  footing  with  the  original  States.'  " 

This  is  substantially  the  same  in  meaning 
as  the  resolution  now  before  the  Convention, 
and  it  contains  the  provision  that  the  State 
shall  be  admitted  in  accordance  with  the 
terms  of  the  Enabling  Act.  If  the  resolution 
is  in  order,  I  should  like  to  say  a  few  words 
in  connection  with  it. 

I  wish  to  say  in  regard  to  the  form,  that  I 
hardly  deemed  it  necessary  to  say  "  we  the 
"  delegates,  &c."  This  is  a  regularly  organ- 
ized body,  and  our  action  as  a  body  speaks 
for  itself. 

Now,  sir,  in  regard  to  the  provisions  of  the 
resolution,  it  seems  to  me  that  the  reasons 
which  have  been  urged  for  accepting  the  pro- 
position of  Congress,  according  to  the  terms 
of  the  act  passed  by  Congress,  are  good.  It 
seems  to  me  that  insurmountable  difficulties 
will  arise  and  multiply  in  our  path,  if  we  at- 
tempt to  step  aside  from  the  plan  laid  down 
for  us,  and  change  the  boundaries  of  the  pro- 
posed State.  These  difficulties  have  been 
stated,  and  it  seems  to  me  they  are  serious 
ones,  and  ought  to  have  weight  in  the  minds 
of  the  members  of  the  Convention,  as  they  do 
have  weight  in  the  minds  of  the  people  at 
large.  I  believe  a  decided  majority  of  the 
people  of  the  Territory  are  in  favor  of  accept- 
ing the  terms  of  the  Enabling  Act,  with  the 
boundaries  as  therein  defined.  I  believe  it 
would  be  unsafe  to  depart  from  them  for 
many  reasons. 

We  know  how  strenuously  that*  Enabling 
Act  was  opposed  in  Congress.  We  know 
how  strenuously  one  section  of  the  Union 
opposes  anything  like  the  admission  of  a  free 
State  into  the  Union.  Instances  of  this  are 
too  numerous  to  need  reference  to,  and  it 
seems  to  me  it  does  not  need  argument  at 
this  time,  in  the  face  of  these  facts.  It  is 
true  that  precedents  have  been  cited  for  this 
course,  but  gentlemen  vnl\  bear  in  mind  that 
the  present  times  are  not  like  those  we  have 
seen.  The  time  has  been  when  such  ques- 
tions could  be  discussed  dispassionately  in 
Congress,  but  I  think  that  time  is  not  the 
present.  That  time  does  not  exist  now ;  and 
we  have  to  do  with  facts  as  they  exist,  and 
as  they  will  exist  when  we  come  to  apply  for 
admission  into  the  Union. 

Now,  sir,  I  have  never  been  able  to  get  up 


any  feeling  upon  the  subject  of  this  north  and 
south  or  east  and  west  line.  The  arguments 
are  very  strong  on  both  sides,  and  I  have  but 
little  choice  in  the  matter ;  but  the  question 
having  been  settled  *t)y  Congress,  it  seems  to 
me  it  is  the  act  of  wisdom  to  accept  of  the 
proposition  as  it  is. 

The  gentleman  from  Winona  [Mr.  Wilson] 
has  alluded  to  the  way  we  are  treated  here  in 
Saint  Paul,  and  to  the  political  aspect  of 
affairs  in  case  this  boundary  is  adhered  to. 
Now,  Mr.  President,  I  have  ever  been  op- 
posed to  carving  out  States  for  the  success 
of  this  or  that  political  party ,  but  I  ask  gen- 
tlemen Mho  are  in  favor  of  such  a  course, 
what  permanent  gain  they  are  to  expect  from 
it  ?  Those  who  are  initiated  have  seen  how 
rapidly  changes  take  place  here  in  the  West. 
The  aspect  of  things  to-day  is  no  sure  crite- 
rion of  what  the  aspect  of  things  vnll  be  to- 
morrow. I  cannot  believe  that  Minnesota, 
with  her  north  and  south  line,  will  be  other 
than  right;  but  if  so,  let  us  struggle  on. 
Besides,  I  think  we  should  feel  an  interest  in 
the  northern  section  of  the  Territory.  But  I 
do  not  think  considerations  of  this  nature 
should  influence  us  in  any  degree.  We 
should  take  a  practical  view  of  the  subject, 
and  judge  of  it  in  all  its  bearings. 

But  I  will  not  take  up  the  time  of  the  Con- 
vention. In  reply  to  the  suggestions  which 
have  been  made  that  gentlemen  need  more 
time  to  consider  this  subject,  I  have  to  say 
that  this  question  has  been  pretty  thoroughly 
discussed  in  the  last  six  months,  and  that 
there  is  no  need  for  further  consideration. — 
The  question  is  a  very  plain  one.  We  should 
pass  upon  this  question  at  once,  and  in  my 
judgment,  pass  upon  it  as  a  whole,  though  I 
would  by  no  means  wish  to  injure  the  feel- 
ings of  any  member  who  wishes  further  time 
for  consideration. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  We  have  very  little 
time  in  which  to  discuss  this  question.  Our 
Southern  Minnesota  friends,  seem,  some  of 
them,  perhaps  all  of  them,  to  urge  a  change 
in  this  Enabling  act.  Now,  sir,  the  wisdom 
of  that  policy  has  not  been  shown  to  one  in 
this  Convention.  What  are  the  reasons  urged 
in  support  of  it?  What  are  the  reasons 
urged  by  my  friend  from  Winona  (Mr.  Wil- 
son) ?  Why,  that  St.  Paul  is  going  to  con- 
trol this  territory.    Well,  sir,  if  I  stand  here 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES-^Ioxday,  Jilt  13. 


ss 


alone,  and  Saint  Paul  undertakes  to  drive  me  j 
from  hence,  they  wiU  walk  over  nij-  dead 
body  before  I  leave  this  room.  "We  do  not 
intend  to  be  brow-beaten  by  St.  Paul.  "We 
are  the  last  men  who  should  cry  out:  "afiraid 
"  of  St.  Paul ! "  TTe  need  no  protection  firom 
those  who  rushed  in  hereto-day,  cried  out  ''I, 
"  move  to  adjourn,"  and  th^n  ran  out  again. 
— Did  that  scare  us?  Let  them  come  on, 
we  are  ready  to  die  in  our  tracks  rather  than 
yield.  (Applause.)  We,  afraid  of  St.  Paul ! 
"Who  is  St.  Paul?  (Laughter j  Let  them 
come.  Vi'e  have  no  guns,  no  pistols,  no 
slung  shots,  but  we  are  ready  to  meet  them, 
and  wiU  not  be  driven  fi-om  this  hall. 

But  suppose  you  adopt  the  East  and  West 
line,  will  not  St.  Paul  still  be  within  the  lim- 
its of  the  proposed  State?  How  can  you 
avoid  it?  If  we  had  the  power  to  annex  it 
to  "NVisconsin,  (laughter)  we  might  rid  our- 
selves of  %her  by  that  means.  But  adopt 
which  line  you  will,  St  Paul  will  be  with  us 
any  how. 

And,  sir,  I  do  not  concur  in  this  wholesale 
condemnation  of  St.  PauL  There  are  good 
men,  noble  men  here,  plenty  of  them ;  men 
who  will  protect  you  at  all  times  and  under 
all  circmnstances,  and  who  always  have  done 
so.  I  see  some  of  them  even  in  this  halL  I 
can  point  them  out  all  over  town.  St.  Paul 
is  not  a  nest  of  vipers.  I  do  not  believe  it 
But  to  those  who  complain  that  St.  Paul  has 
always  made  trouble  in  the  Tenitory,  that 
she  is  a  political  eye  sore  to  the  Republican 
party,  I  have  to  say  that  we  are  not  to  frame 
a  Constitution  for  the  Territory  and  for  St. 
Paul  as  they  now  are,  but  we  are  to  firame  a 
Constitution  for  our  children  and  our  chil- 
dren's children.  .:ind  what  matters  it  whether 
the  St  Paul  of  to-day  is  Democratic  or  Re- 
publican ? 

In  reference  to  the  propositions  before  us, 
I  can  see  no  difierence  in  substance  what- 
ever. They  are  the  same  thing  in  fact.  I 
am  in  favor  of  adopting  one  of  them  without 
further  delay,  and  we  shall  then  be  ready  to 
proceed  with  our  work.  Let  the  matter  of 
the  boundary  line  stand  for  weeks  and  what 
do  we  gain  by  it  ?  How  much  infOTmation 
will  you  receive.  Let  the  Convention  accept 
this  proposition  as  it  comes  to  us,  and  then 
if  a  majority  are  in  favor  of  an  East  and 
West  line,  at  the  end  of  the  Convention,  we 


can  send  a  Memorial  to  (.^ongress,  praying 
them  to  change  the  boundary ;  and  that  will 
be  the  end  of  the  whole  matter.  I  think  the 
Convention  should  adhere  to  the  proposition 
just  as  it  is  at  this  time,  as  a  precautionary 
measure,  as  a  measure  of  safety.  I  beg  the 
pardon  of  the  Convention  for  occupying  so 
much  of  their  time.  I  say  it  with  the  utmost 
respect  for  the  gentleman  from  Winona,  (Mr. 
Wilson)  but  I  do  not  think  St  Paul  is  quite 
as  bad  as  he  represents  it,  or  at  least  not 
quite  so  dan^rous. 

Mr.  KING.  The  question  hes  right  here : 
The  gentleman  wants  to  know  what  objec- 
tion we  have  to  the  Xorth  and  South  line. — 
Well,  sir,  as  a  representative  for  Southern 
Minnesota,  I  will  make  the  solemn  predic- 
tion, that  if  we  go  on  and  frame  a  Constitution 
with  this  North  and  South  line,  the  people 
wiQ  repudiate  the  Constitution,  and  we  shall 
remain  out  of  the  Union  for  a  year  or  two 
longer.  I  do  not  apprehend  any  danger  from 
this  change  of  boundary.  Certainly  we  shall 
lose  nothing  by  asking.  "When  did  you  ever 
know  a  little  boy  to  get  less  by  asking,  than 
would  have  been  given  to  him  without  ?  We 
shall  lose  nothing  by  asking  for  this  East  and 
West  hne. 

Now,  sir,  Congress  passed  this  Enabling 
Act,  and  how  did  they  pass  it  ?    If  we  are  to 
believe  a  statement  which  has  been  going  the 
roimds  of  the  papers,  they  got  to  log  rolling 
and  one  of  the  Senators  from   Ga..    [Mr. 
TooMBs]  supported  this  specific  boundary  as 
it  now  stands,  for  a  specific  "purpose.     Sir, 
oiur  Supreme  Court  Judges  have  determined 
in  favor  of  the  nationality  of  that  abomina- 
tion which  we  detest,  and  now  by  accepting 
in  fiill  this  Enabling  Act,  we  are  subscribing 
I  to  an  act  that  will  unavoidably  send  to  the 
I  Senate  of  the  United  States  two  supporters 
;  of  that  abomination. 

'  But  we  must  make  our  choice,  and  I  ask 
I  gentlemen  which  they  will  do  ?  I  do  not  un- 
1  derstand  Congress  in  the  Enabling  Act  to 
!  decide  what  we  must  do.  It  tells  us  what 
j  we  may  do,  and  Congress  will  not  object  to 
an\-thing  of  this  kind  which  we  deem  to  be 

j  .  o  , 

I  right.  I  am  willing  to  take  the  risk  we  shall  in- 
j  cur.  Sir,  the  delegation  fi"om  Southern  Minne- 
I  sota  have  been  trying  to  have  this  question  come 
j  up  by  itself  upon  its  own  merits  before  the 
I  Convention,  but  they  have  been  fofled  thus 


2i 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Monday,  July  13. 


far.  I  hope  that  wc  shall  have  a  fair  expres- 
sion of  the  opinion  of  tlic  Convention  up- 
on it. 

Mr.  WILSON.  I  evidently  spoke  so  as 
not  to  he  understood  by  the  two  gentlemen 
who  immediately  followed  me.  I  did  not  wish 
nor  do  I  now  wish,  to  be  understood  as  de- 
siring to  form  a  State  which  wiU  be  a  Re- 
publican or  a  Democratic  State,  or  to  be  at 
all  influenced  by  the  political  complexion  of 
those  who  are  to  live  in  it.  I  desire  merely 
to  form  such  a  State  as  will  meet  the  inter- 
ests and  wishes  of  those  who  are  to  live  in  it, 
and  especially  of  my  own  constituency. 

As  to  this  thing  of  being  afraid  of  St. 
Paul,  I  see  nothing  in  the  remarks  of  the 
gentlemen  (Mr.  Galbbaith)  pertinent  to  any 
thing  I  have  said.  I  have  alluded  to  no  such 
fear.  If  there  is  any  necessity  of  meeting 
the  enemy,  I  will  go  as  far  as  he  who  goes 
farthest  to  maintain  our  rights.  It  is  not  ne- 
cessary to  ai'gue  that  question,  and  I  do  not 
want  to  argue  it.  There  are  sometimes  things 
which,  though  we  do  not  fear  them,  are  annoy- 
ing, and  we  desire  for  that  reason  to  avoid 
them.     That  is  all  I  have  to  say  on  that  point. 

But  that  is  not  the  only  objection  to  this 
North  and  South  line,  and  the  reason  why  I 
do  not  go  further  into  a  statement  of  the  ben- 
efits of  the  East  and  West  line  is,  that  I  know 
the  delegates  coming  here  understand  the 
benefits  arising  from  the  adoption  of  that 
boundary  but  where  is  the  necessity  of  set- 
tling this  question  now  and  in  this  connec- 
tion ?  No  gentleman  has  said  that  it  is  re- 
quired in  order  to  comply  with  the  requisi- 
tions of  the  Enabling  Act,  by  settling  that 
question  in  such  a  resolution  as  this,  which 
we  all  desire  should  be  passed  with  unanim- 
ity. 

The  amendment  of  the  gentlemen  from 
Rice  County  [Mr.  Noeth]  cuts  just  as  deep 
as  the  other,  but  a  little  smoother.  It  is  a 
species  of  legislative  trickery  to  connect  in 
one  bill  different  projects.  You  may  like  one 
measure  very  much,  and  because  you  do,  I 
make  you  go  for  another  you  do  not  like,  in 
order  ^to  get  what  you  do  like.  Leave  us  to 
Ray  now  only  M'hether  we  will  not  come  in  as 
a  State  or  not,  and  then  afterwards  by  what 
boundaries.  They  arc  two  distinct  proposi- 
tions, and  should  be  submitted  to  us  sepa- 
rately.    Many  members  of  the  Convention 


now  appear  for  the  first  time  in  a  legislative 
bod3^  They  are  not  acquainted  with  the 
mode  of  doing  business.  Sometimes  they  are 
misled.  But  everj^thing  can  come  up  sepa- 
rately and  all  will  be  right.  I  do  not  wish  to 
submit  to  doing  something  I  dislike,  because 
it  is  yoked  with  something  I  like.  Separate 
them  and  let  us  have  the  wishes  of  the  Con- 
vention distinctly  and  fairly  expressed  and 
that  is  all  I  ask.  These  are  my  opinions.  I 
have  not  argued  the  benefits  of  the  North 
and  South  or  the  East  and  West  line  because 
we  all  undestand  them. 

Mr.  NORTH.  In  regard  to  this  trickery 
of  forcing  two  questions  at  once,  I  wish  to 
say  that  the  thing  has  been  tried  separately. 
The  amendment  of  the  gentleman  from  Steele 
County  brought  the  question  before  the  Con- 
vention in  a  separate  form,  and  his  amend- 
ment was  voted  down.  I  had  supposed, 
therefore,  that  the  Convention  had  decided 
they  would  take  them  together.  Supposing 
they  had  come  to  that  conclusion,  I  thought 
the  wording  of  my  substitute  was  a  httle 
more  direct  than  the  original,  and  that  is  the 
reason  I  proposed  it.  It  was  not  done  for 
the  pm-pose  of  concealing  any  thing ;  not  for 
the  purpose  of  trickery ;  nor  for  the  purpose 
of  forcing  through  two  things  together,  which 
would  not  pass  separately. 

Mr.  WILSON.  I  did  not  intend  to  im- 
pute trickery  to  the  gentleman  who  has  just 
taken  his  seat.  I  meant  to  say,  and  did  say, 
that  this  method  of  tacking  together  bills 
discordant  in  their  provisions,  and  passing 
them  together,  is  a  species  of  legislative  trick- 
ery— that  the  practice  was  legislative  trick- 
ery— and  the  gentleman  stated  very  fairly 
that  he  did  not  consider  that  the  two  provis- 
ions necessarily  went  together. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  It  may  be  thought,  from 
the  position  I  took  upon  the  -amendment 
of  the  gentleman  from  Winona  Mr.  [Wilson] 
that  I  was  endeavoring  to  force  action  upon 
this  question.  My  idea  was  that  this  Con- 
vention should  first  decide  this  question  as  to 
the  wish  of  the  people, — not  that  I  desire  ac- 
tion upon  it  to-day,  if  more  time  is  desired. 
There  arc  gentlemen  here  who  feel  that  they 
owe  certain  duties  to  their  constituents, 
whose  views  and  feelings  should  bo  repre- 
sented fairly  and  fully  before  the  question  is 
taken,     Those  gentlemen  desire  more   time 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Monday,  Jclt  18. 


89 


for  investigation,  and  I  am  the  last  person 
that  would  deprire  them  of  that  privilege. 

Speaking  for  the  County  which  I  have  the 
honor  in  part  to  represent,  I  do  not  believe 
that  the  people  of  Southern  Minnesota  are 
going  to  reject  the  Constitution  which  we 
form,  on  account  of  the  boundaries  which 
we  may  establish,  whether  by  an  East  and 
"West,  or  a  North  and  South  hne.  Fillmore 
County  \frill  vote  for  Ihe  Constitution,  if  it  be 
Republican,  regardless  of  the  boundary  of 
the  State.  Neither  do  I  fear  political  consid- 
erations. Give  Southern  Minnesota  her  fair 
representation  in  proportion  to  her  inhabit- 
ants, and  St.  Paul  may  do  her  best,  politi- 
cally. I  think  that  the  question  of  pohtical 
power  should  not  influence  us.  I  am  ready 
to  concur  in  any  action  gentlemen  may  de- 
sire, and  give  them  suitable  time  to  investi- 
gate this  question ;  but  I  shall  insist  that  the 
question  of  boundary'  should  be  settled  before 
we  proceed  to  any  other  business  of  the  Con- 
vention. 

The  question  recurring  upon  the  substitute 
of  Mr.  North — 

Mr.  "NViLsox  demanded  the  yeas  and  nays. 

The  yeas  and  nays  were  ordered,  and  the 
question  being  taken  there  were  yeas  41  and 
nays  15  as  follows: 

J€(M— Messrs.  Aldrich,  Aver,  Balcombe,  Baldwin, 
Bates,  Bartholomew,  Billings,  Bolks,  Butler,  Cleg- 
horn,  Colburn,  Coombs,  Dooley,  Dickerson,  Esch- 
lie,  Foster,  Galbraith,  Hall,  Hayden,  Harding,  Han- 
son, Holly,  Kemp,  Lisle,  Lowe,  McKune,  Messer, 
Morgan,  Murphy,  North,  Perkins,  Putnam,  Peck- 
ham,  Russell  W.  F.,  Stannard,  Secombe,  Smith, 
Vaughn,  Walker,  Winell,  and  Watson. 

Nays — Messrs.  Anderson,  Coggswell.'Coe,  Ce- 
derstam,  Davis,  Folsom,  Gerrish,  Hudson,  King, 
JIantor,  McCann,  McClure,  Robbins,  Thompson, 
•nd  Wilson. 

So  the  substitute  was  adopted. 

Mr.  WILSON.  I  do  not  like  to  be  troub- 
lesome, and  if  things  stood  in  any  diflferent 
shape,  I  would  not  oflfer  a  substitute.  The 
substitute  adopted  stands  instead  of  the  orig- 
inal resolution,  and  is  stiU  open  to  amend- 
ment. The  reason  why  I  offer  a  substitute 
is,  that  it  appears  to  me  that  there  ought  to 
be  a  majority  of  the  whole  number  of  dele- 
gates to  this  Convention,  in  favor  of  this  res- 
olution, which  majority  evidently  cannot  be 
obtained  if  the  two  questions  are  connected 
together.     My  amendment  is  this : 


;       "  Reaolced,    By  the  House  of  delegates  duly 

'.   "  elected  by  the  pebple  of  the  Territory  of  Minne- 

"  sota  residing  within  the  limits  described  by  the 

"  act  of  Congress  approved entitled  "  An  act 

i  "  to  authorise  the  people  of  the  Territory  of  Min- 
i  "  nesota  to  form  a  Constitution  and  State  Govern- 
"  ment,  preparatory  to  their  admission  into  the 
"  Union  on  an  equal  footing  with  the  original 
:  "  States,"  assembled  at  the  Capitol  of  said  Terri- 
I  "  tory,  do  hereby  determine  that  it  is  the  wish  of 
!   "  the  people  of  the  proposed  State  to  be  admitted 

i   "  into  the  Union  at  this  time." 

I 

I       I  use  the  very  language  of  the  act,  and 

j  nothing  else. 

I  Mr.STANNAED.  If  I  sought  to  defeat 
I  this  amendment  I  would  throw  myself  upon 
:  parliamentary  J)ractice,  We  have  had  sub- 
:  stitute  upon  substitute.  The  gentleman  from 
Winona  [Jlr.  Wilsox]  is  very  anxious  about 
I  this  question  of  St.  Paul.  The  first  question 
to  settle  is  the  boundaries  of  the  future  State. 
I  live  and  represent  a  constituency  north  of 
the  proposed  East  and  West  line,  and  I  could 
not  sit  here  with  satisfaction  to  my  conscience, 
or  credit  to  myself,  and  claim  that  I  had  a 
right  to  participate  in  the  formation  of  a  Con- 
stitution for  a  people  living  in  a  State  formed 
from  Southern  Minnesota,  I  claim  that  the 
first  question  to  be  decided  is  that  of  the 
boundary-,  and  if  that  question  is  to  engage 
our  attention  day  after  day,  we  might  as  well 
adjourn  immediately  sine  die.  I  do  not  be- 
lieve that  we  would  be  admitted  into  the 
Union  with  boundaries  different  from  those 
prescribed  in  the  Enabling  Act ;  and  aU  the 
time  and  money  we  spend  here  to  change 
those  boundaries,  will  be  thrown  away.  I 
think  that  those  who  tiilnk  with  me,  have 
conceded  considerable,  and  I  ask  the  gentie- 
man  from  Winona  to  concede  as  much. 

Mr.  HARDING.  I  wish  it  to  be  distinctiy 
imderstood,  that  it  is  my  opinion,  and  has 
been  ever  since  I  saw  the  Enabling  Act,  that 
the  best  thing  we  can  do  is  to  come  into  the 
Union  under  that  act,  and  to  take  the  boun- 
daries Congress  has  proposed.  I  am  aware 
that  there  is  a  feeling  in  Southern  Minnesota 
adverse  to  it,  but  in  my  neighborhood,  every 
man  is  of  the  opinion  I  have  expressed. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  design  to  vote  for  the 
amendment  of  the  gentleman  from  Winona, 
so  that  if  we  are  to  have  an  accession  of 
members  to-morrow,  they  may  participate  in 
the  question  of  settling  the  boundary  of  th« 


26 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Mo:«dat,  Jult  18. 


proposed  State.  If  those  delegates  should 
not  come  into  the  Convention  to-morrow  I 
shall  be  ready  then  to  vote  upon  the  question 
of  boundary. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  The  fourth  section  pro- 
vides that  after  this  question  is  decided,  the 
Marshal  of  the  Territory  shall  proceed  to 
take  a  census.  Now  to  show  the  gentleman 
that  it  is  impossible  to  separate  those  two 
questions,  suppose  we  leave  this  question  un- 
decided to-day,  what  inhabitants  shall  the 
Secretary  of  the  Interior  order  the  Marshal 
of  Minnesota  to  take  the  census  of? 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  have  said  that  if  we 
are  to  have  no  accession  to  our  numbers  to- 
morrow, I  shall  be  willing  to  vote  upon  the 
question  of  boundary  then. 

Mr.  HAYDEN.  It  is  true  these  are  two 
separate  questions,  yet  I  cannot  see  the  ne- 
cessity of  their  separation,  or  even  the  con- 
sistency of  a  separation. 

The  question  was  then  taken  on  the  amend- 
ment offered  by  Mr.  Wilson,  and  it  was  not 
agreed  to. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH  moved  a  reconsidera- 
tion of  the  vote  just  taken,  stating  that  he 
did  so  at  the  request  of  the  mover  of  the 
amendment  in  order  that  a  vote  might  be  had 
thereon  by  yeas  and  nays. 

The  question  was  taken  and  the  motion  to 
reconsider  prevailed. 

The  question  recurring  upon  the  amend- 
ment, on  motion  of  Mr.  GALBRAITH  the 
yeas  and  nays  were  ordered;  and  being  taken, 
there  were  yeas  16,  and  nays  38,  as  follows: 

Yeas — Messrs.  Anderson,  Balcombe,  Billings, 
Colburn,  Coe,  Davis,  Dooley,  Gerrish,  Hudson 
King,  Mantor,  McCaun,  McClure,  Robbius,  Thomp- 
Bon,  and  Wilson. 

yays — Messrs.  Aldrich,  Ayer,  Baldwin,  Bates. 
Bartholomew,  Belles,  Butler,  Cederstani,  Coombs, 
Dickerson,  Eschlie,  Foster,  Folsom,  Galbraith, 
Hall,  Hayden,  Harding,  Hanson,  Holly,  Kemp, 
Lisle,  Lowe,  McKune,  Messer,  Morgan,  Murphy, 
North,  Perkins,  Putnam,  T*eckham,  Russell,  Stan- 
nard,  Secombe,  Smith,  Vaughn,  Walker,  Winell, 
and  Watson. 

So  the  amendment  was  lost. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  I  caU  for  the  previous 
question. 

Mr.  MORGAN.  Before  that  is  done  I  de- 
sire to  move  to  strike  out  the  word  "ap- 

pojved "  as  we  are  not  able  to  fill  the 

blank,  and  the  act  is  suflBciently  referred  to 
without  those  words. 


The  amendment  was  agreed  to. 

The  previous  question  was  then  seconded, 
and  the  main  question  ordered  to  be  put ;  and 
the  question  being  taken  upon  the  resolution 
as  amended,  it  was  adopted. 

Mr.  SECOMBE  moved  to  reconsider  the 
vote  by  which  the  resolution  was  adopted. 

The  motion  was  not  agreed  to. 

ORGANIZATION  OF  THE  CONVENTION. 

Mr.  HUDSON.  I  move  that  the  written 
request,  in  response  to  which  this  Conven- 
tion was  called  to  order  by  Mr.  North,  be  by 
him  presented  to  the  Secretary  of  the  Con- 
vention, and  that  the  same  be  entered  in  its 
appropriate  place  upon  the  journals  of  this 
Convention. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  lam  opposed  to  that 
motion.  I  do  not  think  the  written  request 
of  any  account,  and  I  do  not  desire  to  encum- 
ber the  Journal  with  anything  that  is  not  per- 
fectly pertinent  to  our  proceedings.  Any 
gentleman  had  the  right  to  call  the  Conven- 
tion to  order. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to. 

CNESUS   OF   the   TERRITOKT. 

Mr.  MANTOR  offered  the  following  reso- 
lution ; 

"  Besohed,  That  the  Secretary  of  this  Conven- 
tion be,  and  is  hereby  instructed  to  notify  tho 
United  States  Marshal,  that  the  Convention  has 
complied  with  the  Enabling  Act,  and  that  he  be 
respectfully  requested  to  take  such  steps  as  are 
provided  by  law,  to  comply  with  said  act." 

Mr.  FOSTER.  I  would  suggest  that  tho 
resolution  be  amended  by  stnking  out  the 
words  "that  this  Convention  has  complied 
"with  the  Enabling  Act"  and  inserting  in 
lieu  thereof  the  words  "that  this  Convention 
"  has  decided  upon  the  immediate  admission 
"of  the  proposed  State  into  the  Union,  ac- 
"  cording  to  the  conditions  of  the  Enabling 
Act." 

Mr.  STANNARD.  I  have  but  one  word 
to  say.  This  resolution  calls  on  the  Secre- 
tary of  the  Convention  to  notify  the  Marshal 
of  the  United  Stiitcs  for  the  Territory.  Now, 
according  to  the  terms  of  the  Enabling  Act, 
the  Marshal  of  the  Territory  is  to  take  the 
census  according  to  the  fonnsand  regulations 
prescribed  by  the  Secretary  of  the  Interior, 
and  I  will  guaranty  to  every  member  of  the 
Convention,  that  if  the  Marshal  of  this  Ter- 
ritory is  informed  of  only  just  what  is  con- 
tained in  that  resolution,  he  might  pocket  it. 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Tcesdat,  Jcly  14. 


and  cany  it  for  two  years  without  censure. 
The  only  proper  course  is  for  the  President 
to  procure  a  copy  of  the  resolution  attested 
by  the  Secretary,  and  transmit  it  immediately 
to  the  Secretaiy  of  the  Interior.  This  Con- 
vention has  no  control  over  the  Marshal.  He 
acts  under  the  Secretary  of  the  Interior. — 
For  one,  I  should  very  much  object  to  having 
anything  of  this  kind  go  on  the  Journal.  It 
would  appear  to  the  detriment  of  the  members 
of  this  Convention.  I  think  we  had  better 
pursue  the  course  I  have  indicated.  It  is  the 
only  correct  one. 

Mr.  FOSTER.  I  do  not  know  but  the  gen- 
tleman is  correct.  I  have  just  prepared  an' 
amendment  to  meet  his  suggestion,  that  the 
President  procure  a  copy  of  the  resolution 
which  the  Convention  has  passed,  and  trans- 
mit it  to  the  Secretary  of  the  Interior.  I 
think,  too,  that  it  will  be  well  for  the  Secretary 
of  the  Convention  to  notify  the  Marshal  for 
the  Territory,  who  is  to  take  the  census.  I 
move  this  as  a  substitute  for  the  resolution : 

*'  Riiohed,  That  the  President  of  this  Conven- 
tion  procure  a  copy  of  the  resolution  alBrming  the 
wishes  of  the  people  of  the  proposed  State  to  be 
admitted  into  the  Union  as  a  sovereign  State, 
properly  attested  by  the  Secretary,  and  tr.  nsaiit 
the  same  forthwith  to  the  Secretary  of  the  Inte- 
rior ;  and  that  the  Sec'y  of  the  Convention  be  re- 
quested to  notify  the  U.  S.  Marshal  for  this  district, 
that  this  Convention  has  decided  in  favor  of  the 
immediate  admission  of  the  State  of  Minnesota 
into  the  Union,  and  that  he  be  requested  to  take 
such  steps  as  are  provided  by  law  to  comply  with 
said  act." 

The  amendment  was  adopted,  and  the  res- 
olution as  amended  was  th^n  passed. 

The  Convention  then  took  a  recess  imtfl  to- 
morrow morning  at  9  o'clock. 


SECOND  DAY. 

TlTESDAT,   JCLT  14,    1857. 

The  Convention  re-assembled  at  9  oclock,  ; 

I 

Mr.  WM.  H.  MILLS  presented  his  creden-  | 
tials   as  a  delegate  from  Ohnsted  County;  ' 
which  were  referred  to  the  committee  on  Cre- 
dentials. 

The  committee  subsequently  reported  that 
the  credentials  were  regular  and  Mr.  Mills 
entitled  to  a  seat.  Mr.  Mills  was  thereupon 
qualified  by  taking  the  usual  oath  of  office, 


and  his  credentials  ordered  to  be  placed  on 
the  Journal. 

STAXDISG  COMMITTEES. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL  offered  a  resolution  in 
reference  to  raising  certain  standing  commit- 
tees on  the  different  subjects  proposed  to  be 
embraced  in  the  Constitution ;  which  was  re- 
ferred to  a  select  committee,  consisting  of 
Messrs.  Coggswell,  Colbitrx,  Cleghobx, 
NoBTH,  RoBBixs,  and  Eschlie. 

COSTESTED    SEAT. 

Mr.  MORGAN  presented  the  petition  of 
Chables  B.  Sheldox,  claiming  the  right  of 
being  admitted  to  a  seat  in  the  Convention  as 
the  delegate  duly  elected  from  Hennepin 
Countj- iix,  place  of  R.  P.  Rcssell;  which  was 
referred  to  s(  select  committee,  consisting  of 
Messrs.  Mobgax^  Smith,  and  Coggswell. 

BCLES. 

Mr.  WILSON  from  the  select  committee  on 
Rules,  reported  a  code  of  rtiles  for  the  gov- 
enmient  of  the  Convention ;  which  after  con- 
sideration and  amendment  were  adopted. 

Pending  the  consideration  of  the  report  of 
the  committee  on  Rules,  Mr.  FOSTER  moved 
that,  as  the  sergeant-at-arms  was  absent, 
Wm.  H.  Shelly  be  appointed  sergeant-at- 
arms  j!>ro  tempore. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to,  and  thereupon 
Mr.  Shelly  was  duly  qualified  by  taking  the 
oath  of  office. 

On  motion,  the  sergeant-at-arms,  was  di- 
rected to  select  such  assistants  as  he  might 
deem  necessary  to  assist  him  in  the  discharge 
of  his  duties. 

The  PRESIDENT.  The  chair  would  take 
this  opportunity  to  remark  that  if  the  dele- 
gates who  are  legally  entitled  to  seats  in  this 
Convention  were  all  present,  and  the  editors 
and  reporters  who  have  been  admitted  within 
the  bar  were  all  present,  all  the  seats  would 
be  occupied,  and  as  it  is  expected  as  a  matter 
of  course,  that  those  delegates  will  at  some 
time  take  their  seats,  it  is  the  order  of  the 
President  that  the  sergeant-at-arms  and  his 
assistants  permit  no  one  to  enter  within  the 
bar  of  the  hall  except  members  or  those  who 
have  credentials  to  present  in  order  to  become 
members  of  the  Convention,  and  the  report- 
ers and  editors  who  have  been  already  admit- 
ted. It  is  not  the  intention  of  the  President 
in  giving  this  order  to  debar  any  one  who 
claims  a  seat  in  this  Convention,  but  to  admit 


28 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Tuesday,  July  14. 


all  such  that  they  may  present  their  creden- 
tials, but  it  is  the  intention  to  keep  from 
within  the  bar  outsiders  who  have  no  right 
inside  of  the  bar.  To  do  so  is  a  matter  of 
convenience  and  necessity,  from  the  fact  that 
the  room  is  small  and  hardly  sufBcient  to  ac- 
commodate the  members  who  are  entitled  to 
seats  within  the  bar. 

Mr.  MANTOR  submitted  the  following  res- 
olution which  was  considered,  and  adopted. 

"  Besolved,  That  two  hundred  copies  of  the 
Eules  governing  this  Convention  be  printed  in 
pamphlet  lorm  ibr  the  use  of  the  members,  with 
the  names  of  the  members,  their  post  office  ad- 
dress, town  county  and  council  districts,  together 
with  the  names  of  tlie  standing  committees." 

[The  proceedings  were  here  interrupted  by 
the  appearance  of  Mr.  C.  L.  Chase  at  the 
door,  who,  as  Secretary  of  the  Territory, 
demanded  the  hall  for  the  use  of  the  Consti- 
tutional Convention. 

The  PRESIDENT  repUed  that  that  body 
was  now  in  session  and  in  possession  of  the 
Hall. 

Mr.  CHASE.  Then  you  will  not  give  up 
the  Hall? 

The  PRESIDENT.     Certainly  not. 

Mr.  Chase  then  retired.] 

COMMITTEE    ON   KEPOBTING. 

On  motion  of  Mr.  NORTH  the  President 
appointed  a  committee  of  three  to  employ  re- 
porters to  report  the  debates  of  the  Conven- 
tion as  follows :  Messrs.  Nobth,  Cedebstam, 
and  Watson. 

Mr.  MORGAN,  from  the  Committee  on  the 
petition  of  Chaeles  B.  Sheldon  to  be  admit- 
ted as  delegate  to  a  soat  on  this  floor,  submit- 
ted a  report  recommending  that  the  prayer  of 
the  petition  be  granted  and  Mr.  Sheldon  be 
admitted  as  a  delegate. 

The  report  was  read. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  I  have  but  a  word  to 
say  upon  this  matter.  I  have  little  doubt  in 
regard  to  the  facts.  I  have  myself  received 
one  of  these  affidavits  signed  by  one  of  the 
judges  of  election,  which  was  made  out  by 
myself,  and  I  believe  them  every  way  worthy 
our  confidence. 

[A  communication  was  here  received  fix»m 
Rev.  E.  D.  Neill,  Chaplain  elect,  which  was 
laid  on  the  table.] 

Mr.  NORTH.  I  desire  to  know  whether 
this  report  states  that  the  votes  rqected  by 


the  judges  of  election  designated  whether  they 
were  for  representative  district,  or  delegate  at 
large  ? 

Mr.  MORGAN.  It  does,  and  we  have 
given  copies  of  the  votes  themselves. 

Mr.  FOSTER.  I  move  that  the  resolution 
reported  by  the  Committee  be  adopted. 

The  resolution  was  read  as  follows  : 

"Besolved,  That  Charles  B.  Sheldon  is  enti- 
tled to  a  seat  in  this  Convention  from  the  nth 
district,  and  as  such  should  be  admitted  upon  the 
proper  application  being  made. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  I  would  inquire  if  Mr. 
Russell,  who,  I  understand,  received  the  cer- 
tificate of  election,  is  present  ?  I  am  not  in 
favor  of  deciding  this  case  without  giving  him 
an  opportunity  of  being  heard. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  These  affidavits  I 
know,  and  I  believe  them,  but  they  are  ex- 
parte  affidavits,  and  are  only  sufficient  to  open 
the  contest.  I  believe  that  Mr.  Sheldon  is 
entitled  to  a  seat  in  this  body.  I  have  no 
doubt  as  to  the  equity  and  legality  of  his 
election,  but  there  is  another  {)erson  I  under- 
stand, claiming  a  seat  here  by  virtue  of  a 
certificate.  Now,  sir,  I  am  willing,  and  I 
think  this  Convention  is  willing,  that  every 
member  having  a  certificate  shall  come  in 
here,  take  his  seat,  and  be  treated  fairly  and 
honorably.  Let  him  have  his  seat  on  fair 
honorable  and  equitable  terms.  No  member 
of  this  Convention  has  ever  intimated  that 
any  man  who  comes  here  duly  elected,  with 
the  sign  and  seal  of  the  people  upon  his  for- 
head,  shall  be  rejected.  Rather  than  reject 
any  man  who  was .  fairly  and  honorably 
elected,  I  am  satisfied  every  man  here  would 
leave  this  hall.  Whether  he  be  in  the  major- 
ity or  minority  it  matters  not.  We  wish  no 
fictitious  majority.  We  have  here  now,  I 
believe,  fifty-seven  members  with  legal  cer- 
tificates, under  the  sign  and  seal  of  the  proper 
election  officers,  whose  seats  can  only  be  con- 
tested by  legal  and  proper  means.  Other 
gentlemen  who  have  the  same  kind  of  certifi- 
cates can  come  and  present  them,  and  there 
is  no  man  here  who  would  reject  them.  If  a 
certaia  set  of  men  professing  a  certain  set  of 
principles,  find  themselves  in  tlic  majority,  let 
that  majority  rule,  whether  it  be  republican 
or  democratic.  Let  no  fictitious  majority  be 
created.    Let  the   people's  voice  come  up 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Tiesday,  July  14. 


29 


here  and  be  heard.     "We  wish  for  nothing  but 
what  is  right,  but  we  ask  what  is  right. 

Mr.  SnELDOS  comes  here  and  asks  for  a 
seat  in  thLs  Convention.  He  has  no  certifi- 
cate, but  he  presents  evidence  that  he  is  a 
legally  elected  delegate.  I  believe  that  evi- 
dence, every  word  of  it.  But  it  is  exparte 
evidence,  and  as  such,  is  entitled  to  no  weight 
for  the  present,  except  to  admit  him  to  con- 
test his  seat.  I  say,  therefore,  that  for  the 
present  we  ought  not  to  admit  Mm  to  a  seat 
in  tliis  Convention.  There  has  been,  it  is 
said,  no  investigation  upon  the  part  of  the 
gentleman  holding  the  certificate,  but  he 
should  have  the  opportunity  of  being  heard 
here.  I  do  not  wish  to  be  factious  in  this 
matter,  but  it  seems  to  me  it  is  the  duty  of 
the  Convention  not  to  act  hastily. 

Mr.  ALDRICH.  I  wish  to  state  to  the  Con- 
vention that  Mr.  Russell  is  a  friend  and  neigh- 
bor of  mine,  and  that  he  told  me  on  Saturday 
last,  his  certificate  was  made  out  by  the 
proper  authorities,  but  he  had  declined  to  re- 
ceive it  for  the  reason  that  he  had  not  received 
a  majority  of  the  votes  cast,  and  was  not 
fairly  elected.  Mr.  Sheldon  has  presented  a 
certain  petition  here  and  has  filed  certain  pa- 
pers. There  is  nothing  unfair  in  that,  but  in 
view  of  the  circumstances,  I  think  it  is  due 
to  Mr.  RcssELL  that  he  should  have  an  oppor- 
tunity of  establishing  his  right  to  a  seat  here 
if  he  wishes  so  to  do.  I  move,  therefore,  that 
the  report  be  recommitted  to  the  committee 
with  instructions  to  notify  Mr.  Russell  imme- 
diately that  his  seat  is  contested,  and  report 
as  soon  as  practicable. 

Mr.  NORTH.  I  want  to  say  that  I  do  not 
fully  understand  the  course  which  it  is  pro- 
posed to  pursue  here.  I  am  as  far  from 
wishing  to  hasten  a  measure  of  this  kind  as 
any  gentleman  present,  but  I  look  upon  the 
matter  in  this  hght :  We  are  not  supposed 
to  know  what  is  going  on  outside  of  this  hall. 
We  are  not  supposed  to  know  that  any  gen- 
tleman has,  or  claims  to -have,  a  certificate  of 
election  to  this  body,  until  he  comes  and  pre- 
sents it.  How  is  this  Convention  to  know 
that  Mr.  Russell  has  any  claims  to  a  seat  here 
imtil  he  comes  and  presents  them  ?  Common 
fame,  common  report  says  that  he  has,  and  I 
have  no  doubt  that  if  we  go  into  an  investi- 
gation of  the  matter,  we  shall  find  that  Mr. 
RcssELL  was  a  candidate,  and  was  offered  a 


certificate  of  election ;  but  have  we  any  offi- 
cial information  upon  which  we  can  properly 
base  such  action  ?  If  so,  are  there  not  other 
cases  here  which  demand  like  action  ?  I  say 
again,  if  Mr.  Russell  does  not  ask  a  hearing 
before  this  Convention ;  if  he  does  not  come 
here  and  present  his  certificate  or  claim  a  seat 
here  ;  is  it  incumbent  on  this  Convention  to 
run  after  him  ?  I  know  Mr.  Rusbell  well ; 
I  believe  him  to  be  a  highly  honorable  man, 
and  I  have  no  doubt  that  imder  the  circum- 
stances, he  does  not  claim  a  seat  as  a  mem- 
ber of  the  Convention.  As  I  understand  it, 
there  is  no  question  but  that  Mr.  Sqeldox 
had,  strictly,  legally  and  technically,  a  major- 
ity of  the  votes  cast.  That  evidence  is  be- 
fore us.  We  have  heard  that  Mr.  Russell 
does  not  claim  a  seat  here ;  that  he  declines 
;  to  receive  a  certificate ;  and  I  ask  then  if  it 
I  is  necessary,  on  the  part  of  the  Conven  tion, 
i  to  consult  Mr.  Russell  on  the  subject  ? 
I  Mr.  HAYDEX.  I  think  the  testimony  be- 
fore us  is  sufficient  to  warrant  the  action  which 
it  is  proposed  to  take.  The  fact  that  Mr. 
Sheldon  has  no  certificate  is  evidence  in 
itself  that  some  other  person  has.  And  as 
the  evidence  before  us  is  purely  exparte,  I  think 
it  much  the  best  and  most  judicious  course  to 
refer  the  report  back  as  has  been  proposed. 
Mr.  FOSTER.  WhUe  I  have  no  doubt 
that  Mr.  Sheldon,  the  petitioner,  in  this 
case,  is  entitled  to  a  seat  here —  while  I  have 
no  doubt  that  he  has  received  too,  a  majority 
of  the  votes  cast,  and  that  those  votes  them- 
selves stated  on  their  face  whether  they  were 
for  Council  or  Representative  Delegate,  as 
is  certified  to  by  the  Judges  of  Election, 
and  that  the  failure  so  to  specify  in  the  returns 
was  purely  a  clerical  error,  yet,  as  has  been 
said,  the  very  fact  that  he  comes  here  without 
a  certificate  is  of  itself  evidence  that  some  one 
else  has  such  certificate.  Now,  sir,  while  we 
might  go  on,  and  perhaps  it  would  be  just 
and  right  to  do  so,  and  on  the  information  we 
have  that  Mr.  Sheldon  is  legally  and  fairly 
entitled  to  his  seat,  close  up  the  case  at  once 
and  give  it  to  him  without  further  delay ;  yet 
t  prefer  to  err  in  the  opposite  direction.  I 
prefer  to  give  Mr.  Russell  the  fairest  possi- 
ble chance,  so  that  he  could  not  say  we  took 
advantage  of  his  absence  to  prejudge  his  case. 
I  hope  therefore,  the  motion  of  the  gentleman 
from  Hennepin  [Mr.  Aldbich]  will  prevail 


30 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES -Tuesjay,  July  1*. 


We  are  here,  so  lo  speak,  in  a  peculiar  sit- 
uation. Composing  as  we  do,  a  large  major- 
ity of  the  delegates  elected  in  Mmnesota  to 
this  Constitutional  Convention  ;  yet  we  know 
that  a  minority  portion  of  those  also  elected 
at  the  same  time  to  this  body,  have  seen  fit 
not  to  come  here,  or  if  they  did  come  they 
went  out  as  suddenly  as  they  came  in.  They 
disappeared  like  a  meteor  shot  across  the  sky 
of  as  little  substance,  shedding  as  little  light 
on  their  erratic  path. 

Those  who  hear  me  are  well  aware  of  the 
difficuties  which  from  the  start  encumbered 
the  preliminary  organization  of  this  Conven- 
tion. .  The  Enabling  Act  was  entirely  silent 
as  to  the  Tiour  when  the  Convention  should 
meet,  and  the  Legislature  having  also  neg- 
lected to  name  the  hour,  we  were  at  a  loss 
what  to  do.  Legally,  the  moment  Sunday 
went  out  and  Monday  came  in,  the  Conven- 
tion, or  even  a  minority  of  its  members,  could 
meet  at  the  Capitol,  and  make  a  preliminary 
organization.  From  the  threats  in  the  demo- 
cratic presses  prior  to  our  meeting  here,  from 
the  bravado  of  democratic  leaders  since  the 
arrival  of  most  of  the  members,  the  Republi- 
can portion  of  this  body  had  good  reason  to 
believe  that  there  were  desperate  men  enough 
amongst  the  democratic  minority,  to  meet 
here  at  midnight,  to  organize  here  at  midnight, 
and  to  adjourn  from  time  to  time  until  they 
obtained  a  quorum,  and  to  claim,  on  account 
of  such  midnight  organization,  because  it  was 
the  first  organization  on  the  appointed  day 
for  meeting,  a  precedence  over  any  other  or- 
ganization that  might  be  afterwards  set  up  in 
broad  day -light  by  the  Republican  majority ; 
and  though  I  do  not  say  that  such  a  course 
would  primarily  be  participated  in  by  all  of 
the  members  of  that  party,  yet  I  know  enough 
of  those  timid  souls  who  might  not,  to  induce 
me  to  believe  that  after  the  deed  was  com- 
mitted, they  would  "  let  it  slide,"  and  profit 
by  the  wrong  which  their  bolder  but  less  hon- 
orable colleagues  had  perpetrated.  They 
would  console  themselves  with  the  argument, 
that  the  thing  was  done,  could  not  now  be 
helped,  and  it  was  best  to  "  acquiesce  "  in  the 
proceeding,  much  as  they  disliked  it !  Thus 
warned  of  the  intentions,  of  the  peculiar  pro- 
clivities of  their  Democratic  brethren,  the 
Republican  mernbers  met  together  in  caucus 
on  Saturday  evening,  July  lUh,  to  consult  on 


the  best  means  of  overcoming  the  difficulty 
in  regard  to  the  uncertainty  about  the  hour 
for  the  meeting  of  the  Convention.  They  de- 
termined, in  the  first  place,  that  they,  the  ma- 
jority would  not  attempt  to  organize  until  af- 
ter broad  day-light  on  Monday  morning,  the 
13th,  being  the  day  appointed  bj'  the  Enabling 
Act.  They  next  determined,  that  they  would 
take  precautions  to  prevent  the  Democratic 
minority  from  attempting  to  organize  before 
that  time,  or  during  the  darkness  of  early 
Monday  morning,  without  the  knowledge  of 
the  Republican  members;  and  be  read}'',  in  case 
they  did  so  attempt,  to  frustrate  the  scheme. 
As  a  means  of  precaution,  they  determined 
to  meet  in  caucus  in  the  Council  chamber  oi 
the  Capitol,  at  12. o'clock,  midnight,  between 
Sunday  and  Monday  morning;  and  there 
watch  for  and  pray  over  our  Democratic 
brethren.  But  for  any  unexpected  contingen- 
cy, such,  among  other  things,  as  the  Demo- 
crats evincing  a  willingness  in  some  precise  and 
reliable  form,  to  pledge  themselves  not  to  meet 
until  a  specified  hour,  an  Executive  commit- 
tee was  appointed  by  the  Republican  caucus 
with  discretionary  powers ;  and  the  Republi- 
can caucus  adjourned  to  meet  in  the  Council 
chamber  at  12  o'clock,  a.  m.,  on  Monday  morn- 
ing, as  I  have  before  stated.  Nothing  oc- 
curred until  Sunday  evening,  when  one  of  the 
Executive  committee  being  at  the  FuUer 
House  where  others  of  that  committee  board- 
ed, accidentally  met  there  Ex-Governor  Gor- 
man, and  had  a  talk  with  him  about  the  pos- 
sibility of  coming  to  an  understanding  with 
the  Democratic  members  as  to  an  hour  of 
meeting.  Governor  Gorman  said  the  Demo- 
cratic members  were  just  about  going  into- 
caucus  in  No.  15,  and  he  would  communicate 
with  them  on  the  subject.  He  did  so,  or  ap- 
peared to  do  so,  passing  several  times  back- 
wards and  forwards  between  a  portion  of  the 
Republican  committee  hastily  gathered,  (some 
from  their  beds,)  and  the  Democratic  caucus 
in  No.  15  up  stairs.  The  result  of  his  peri- 
grinations  was,  that  the  hour  of  meeting  should 
be  at  12  o'clock  at  noon,  on  Monday;  and 
that  a  paper  should  be  drawn  up  wliich  the 
Republican  committee  should  sign,  on  the 
one  hand,  and  the  members  of  the  Democratic 
caucus,  on  tlie  other,  mutually  pledging  their 
sacred  honors  to  organize  at  that  hour  and 
not  before.    By  request,  I  drew  up  such  a 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Tcesdat,  Jclt  14. 


81 


paper,  -which  Governor  Gokman'  took  up  into 
their  caucus,  to  see  if  it  was  all  right  in  form. 
He  brought  it  down  stairs,  .«yiid  it  would  do, 
and  requested  us  to  sign  it  fii*st.  All  of  the 
Execit  ve  committee  present  did  so;  and  he 
took  it  up  with  him  into  their  caucus ;  and,  gen- 
tleman, that  is  the  last  we  ever  saw  of  it ! — 
We  waited  a  long  time  to  see  it  come  down 
with  the  signatures  of  the  Democrats  upon  it; 
but  we  waited  in  vain.  They  knew  a  trick 
worth  two  of  that.  When  they  did  finally 
adjourn  their  Sunday  caucus,  about  11  o'clock 
on  Sunday  night,  and  came  down  stairs  in  a 
body,  Governor  Gokmax  handed  the  Repub- 
licans a  resolution  signed  by  the  oflBcers  of 
the  caucus,  in  which,  in  return  for  our  posi- 
tive pledge  to  meet  at  12  o'clock  the  next  day, 
they  said  they  would  "meet  at  the  vsiial  hour 
for  the  assembling  of  parhamentary  bodies  m 
the  United  States.''  Indignant  at  this  unfair 
evasion,  the  Republican  committee  at  once,  on 
the  spot,  denounced  this  as  a  subterfuge  ;  as 
not  the  understanding,  and  declared  that  they 
would  not  be  bound  by  it.  They  demanded 
their  written  pledge  back  again ;  and  it  icas 
refused!  Now,  what  were  the  Republicans 
to  do  imder  these  circumstances?  To  be 
spared  the  necessity  of  a  long  night  vigil,  in 
the  Capitol,  was  the  earnest  desire  of  us  all ; 
but  this  dishonorable  evasion,  made  it  still 
more  evident  that  the  only  course  for  us  to 
pursue,  was  that  of  "  eternal  vigilance."  It 
was  plain  that  the  Democrats  were  playing 
last  and  loose  with  us — that  they  were  in  for 
all  the  chances.  That  having  tricked  us  into 
pledging  a  certain  hour  for  meeting  they  kept 
themselves  ready  to  take  advantage  of  any 
circumstances  that  might  arise  by  the  loose 
and  doubtless  well  considered  phrase  of  the 
*'  vsual  hour  !  "  Now,  sir,  that  "  usual  hotu-" 
means  anything,  everything,  or  nothing,  just 
as  you  happen  to  want.  It  may  mean  9 
o'clock,  which  is  the  hour  our  rules  fix  for 
the  daily  sessions  of  this  Convention ;  or  it 
may  mean  10  o'clock,  the  usual  hour  for  the 
meeting  of  the  Territorial  Legi.'^lature ;  or  it 
may  mean  12  o'clock,  the  usual  hour  at  which 
Congress  assembles. 

Well  sir.  the  Democrats  having  thus  adopted 
a  sliding  scale,  while  the  Republicans  had 
offered  to  agree  to  meet  at  precisely  12  o'clock, 
M.,  on  Monday,  the  latter  had  but  one  re- 
source; for,  sir,  sent  here  by  an  intelligpnt. 


earnest  and  fearless  constituency,  the  Repub- 
lican Del^ates  were  not  the  men  to  be  coaxed, 
or  driven,  or  humbugged,  firom  their  position. 
It  was  their  intention,  as  it  was  their  instruc- 
tions from  their  people,  to  stand  by  their 
rights,  to  stand  by  them  in  a  legal  manner, 
but  to  stand  by  them  with  all  the  means  which 
God  and  nature,  and  the  constitution  of  their 
country  had  given  them. 

I  repeat,  sir,  under  the  circumstances  we 
had  but  one  course  to  pursue,  and  that  we 
took.  Pursuant  to  our  adjounmient  on  Sat- 
urday evening,  we  met  in  caucus  in  the  Coun- 
cil Chamber  of  this  Capitol  as  soon  as  possi- 
ble afler  the  clock  had  struck  twelve  on  Sun- 
day night ;  and  we  continued  there  all  night, 
not  to  do  anj-thing,  although  we  had  a  majori- 
ty of  aU  the  members  elected  present ;  but  to 
prevent  any  imdue  advantage  being  taken  of 
us  by  the  other  side.  Let  no  man  say  we 
were  not  justified  in  apprehending  that  the 
Democratic  delegates  would  attempt  to  take 
such  advantage.  Why,  then,  it  may  be  asked, 
did  they  not  come  forward  and  meet  our 
proposition  for  twelve  o'clock  on  Monday 
noon  as  the  hour  for  organization,  in  a  manly, 
straight-forward  way  ?  Why  the  contempti- 
ble evasion  of  the  "  usual  hour  ?"  But  in 
addition  to  these  signs  of  a  disposition  to  take 
advantage,  it  is  a  matter  of  history  that  the 
same  party  in  the  State  of  Ohio,  under  the 
lead  of  the  present  Democratic  Governor  of 
this  Territory,  once  met  in  legislative  session 
in  Coliunbus,  at  midnight  of  the  day  fixed  for 
the  meeting  of  the  Legislature,  and  kept  pos- 
session of  the  legislative  hall  day  and  night 
for  two  or  three  weeks,  and  aU  this  to  obtain 
political  power  and  nullify  an  apportionment 
bin  passed  by  a  previous  Legislatxire — and, 
sir,  they  succeeded.  How  did  we  know  that 
that  was  not  the  "usual  hour"  meant  by  them 
— for  this  precedent  showed  it  was  an  "  usual 
hour"  with  the  Democracy  of  Ohio,  and  as 
the  party  in  this  Territory  had  the  same 
oflBcial  leader,  could  we  suppose  Ohio  mid- 
ni^t  fashions  would  not  be  imposed  on  us 
here  in  Minnesota  ?  Yes,  sir,  I  repeat,  we 
were  justified  in  mistrusting  them,  and  by  ap- 
prehending in  time  their  designs,  fiiistrate 
and  prevent  them. 

Well,  sir,  the  Republican  members  contin- 
ued in  the  Coimcil  Chamber  until  after  day- 
light,— in   fact  until  afler  the  doors  of  the 


82 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Tuesday,  Jclt  14. 


Convention  Hall  were  unlocked  by  the  work- 
men, who,  who  under  the  employ  of  this 
Democratic  Admistration,  were  arranging  and 
furnishing  it  for  the  reception  of  the  Delegates 
to  the  Constitutional  Convention.  It  was  not 
until  the  doors  were  thus  unlocked,  that  a 
single  member  of  an}^  party  took  a  seat  in  this 
Hall.  And  how,  sir,  did  the  Republican  mem- 
bers enter  it  then  ?  Why,  sir,  they  dropped 
in  singly,  after  going  for  their  breakfast  and 
returning;  entered  it  in  broad  day -light,  not 
organized,  not  in  a  body,  not  rushing  in  lilce  a 
mob,  but  calmly,  quietly,  and  without  noise 
or  confusion.  They  selected  their  seats,  and 
some  of  the  Democratic  members  came  in  and 
selected  their  seats  also ;  and  all  was  going  on 
peaceably  and  quietly.  Between  9  and  10 
o'clock,  the  Democratic  delegates  met  in  cau- 
cus in  the  office  of  the  Secretary  of  State 
down  staus  in  this  Capitol.  Whether  the 
more  respectable  amongst  them  were  ashamed 
of  the  evasion  of  their  caucus  the  evening  be- 
fore— or  whether  to  blind  the  Republicans  to 
their  designs  and  prevent  them  from  proceed- 
ing to  organize  the  Convention,  before  they 
were  ready  to  make  the  grand  rush  that  they 
subsequently  did,  this  caucus  adopted  and 
communicated  to  the  Republican  members 
the  follo^^^ng  resolution. 

"  July  13,  IS"?- 
. "  Regolved,  That  the  Democratic  members  of  the 
Constitutional  Convention  in  caucus,  do  hereby 
confirm  the  position  of  the  Democratic  members 
last  evening,  and  will  concur  in  the  proposition  to 
meet  at  12  o'clock,  M.  of  this  day,  the  usual  hour 
for  the  assemblage  of  parliamentary  bodies  in  the 
United  States. 

M.  SHERBURNE,  Chairman. 
C.  L.  Chase,  Secretary." 
SiE :  It  will  be  observed,  that  this  resolu- 
tion alludes  to  and  establishes  the  fact,  at- 
tempted to  be  disputed,  that  the  "  Democratic, 
members"  were  in  caucus  on  the  Sunday  even- 
ing previous ;  and  it  tries  to  relieve  them  from 
the  evasive  "  position"  they  had  taken  by 
interpreting  the  usual  hour  to  mean  12  o'clock ! 
and  at  this  hour  they  now  pledged  them.selves 
to  meet.  I  want  to  call  attention  to  another 
feet,  which  still  more  strongly  shows  that  there 
vias  a  "  caucus  of  the  Democratic  members" 
the  previous  Sunday  evening.  This  is,  that 
the  caucus  which  adopted  the  resolution  just 
read,  appears  to  have  been  only  the  adjourned 
caucus  from  the  night  before ;  for  the  game 


persons  were  President  and  Secretary  of  both, 
as  will  be  seen  by  this  copy  of  their  commu- 
nication to  the  Republican  members  at  the 
Fuller  House  on  Sunday  evening,  when  they 
played  the  trick  about  the  "  usual  hour."  It 
is,  sir,  as  follows : 

"  Gextlemex: — The  Democratic  members  of  the 
Constitutional  Convention  now  present  will  be 
governed  as  to  time  and  place  of  meeting  by  the 
usual  rules  governing  the  assemblage  of  parlia- 
mentary bodies  in  the  United  States. 

M.  SHERBURNE. 

(?.  L.  Chase, 

W.  A.  Gorman. 

To  Messrs.  Balcombe  and  others." 

What  followed,  sir,  the  communication  of 
the  resolution  by  them  on  Monday  morning  ? 
The  first  thing-  we  witnessed,  .sir,  was  that  a 
person,  acting  under  Democratic  orders,  came 
into  this  Hall  with  a  small  hand  ladder, 
mounted  up  to  the  Hall  Clock  facing  your 
desk,  sir,  and  went  through  all  the  motions  of 
taking  it  apart,  regulating  it,  and  then  setting 
it  agoing  according  to  their  own  time.  Not  a 
Republican  hand,  sir,  touched  that  clock; 
and  we  sat  here,  foohshly  trusting  in  the  good 
faith  of  our  opponents,  that  at  12  o'clock  M. 
by  the  time  piece  regulated  by  themselves, 
they  would  meet  with  us  here  and  proceed  in 
a  proper  manner  to  organize  the  Constitutional 
Convention.  How  vilely  they  broke  their 
faith — how  dishonestly  they  violated  their  hon- 
or— you  all  know.  All  will  bear  me  witness, 
that  at  17  minutes  lefore  the  time  fixed  by 
themselves, — 17  minutes  before,  by  the  Hall 
Clock — they  rushed  in  here  in  a  body — 
like  a  mob — some  38  or  40  of  them — with  a 
man  at  the  head  of  the  name  of  Chase,  who 
claimed  to  unite  in  his  one  person,  the  various 
functions  of  Secretary  of  the  Territory  and 
Acting  Governor,  and  making  some  pretence 
also  to  a  seat  in  the  Convention.  He,  Chase, 
by  evident  pre-arrangement,  sprang  unex- 
pectedly into  the  Speaker's  desk,  and  com- 
menced calling  the  Convention  to  order.  Say- 
ing "  As  Secretary  of  tTie  Territory  of  Minne- 
sota, I  call" — But  before  he  could  get  his 
words  out  even  this  far ,  Mr.  J.  W.  North,  a 
duly  elected  and  certified  delegate,  who  had 
previously  been  requested  in  writing  by  a  ma- 
jority of  all  the  members  elect  to  the  Conven- 
tion, to  call  the  body  to  order,  was  by  his  side, 
had  called  the  Convention  to  order,  had  nom- 
inated Thomas  J.  Galbbaith   as   temporary 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Tuesday,  Jilt  14. 


3S 


Chairman,  and  had  put  the  motion  before  Mr. 
Chase  could  call  his  mob  to  order.  As  soon 
as  he  had  done  so,  Willis  A.  Gorman  at  once 
made  a  motion  to  adjourn. 

The  motion  was  put  by  Mr.  Chase,  and 
declared  by  him  carried.  And  thus  a  body, 
as  they  called  themselves,  without  being 
organized,  without  a  Secretary  or  record  of 
proceedings,  adjourned  and  rushed  out  of  the 
room  as  they  had  rushed  in.  We,  a  majority 
of  the  Convention  remained,  and  have  pro- 
ceeded ever  since  upon  our  course,  and  are 
ready  at  all  times  to  receive  members  who 
come  with  credentials,  no  matter  to  what 
party  they  belong,  and  give  them  seats  in  this 
body.  We  have  endeavored  to  act,  and  have 
acted  fairly  throughout ;  and  as  I  said  before, 
we  have  nothing  to  reproach  ourselves  with, 
and  nothing  to  take  back. 

Mr.  ALDRICH.  I  wish  to  state  for  the 
information  of  the  gentleman  from  Rice 
county,  and  others,  that  there  is  evidence  here 
that  a  certiJBcate  of  election  is  made  out  for 
Mr.  RussELU  I  have  seen  it  myself,  and  I 
am  opposed  to  acting  decidedly  in  this  case  at 
this  time,  for  the  reason  that  we  have  no 
means  of  knowing  but  that  Mr.  Rcssell  may 
make  his  appearance  here  and  ask  to  take  his 
seat.  We  have  no  means  of  knowing  but 
that  he  may  be  absent  on  account  of  sickness. 
I  will  also  state  that  there  is  a  neighbor  of 
Mr.  Russell  now  here,  who  will  take  to  him 
any  communication  from  this  Convention  this 
afternoon.  I  not  only  want  the  Convention 
to  do  no  wrong,  but  to  avoid  even  the  appear- 
ance of  wrong. 

The  question  was  then  tak^i,  and  the  mo- 
tion was  agreed  to. 

So  the  report  was  referred  back  to  the 
committee. 

Mr.  NORTH.  I  suppose  I  am  not  strictly 
in  order  in  speaking  when  there  is  no  ques- 
tion before  the  Convention,  and  I  will  not  do 
so  if  any  gentleman  has  objection. 

The  PRESIDENT.  The  genUeman  will 
proceed,  as  no  objection  is  made. 
^  Mr.  NORTH.  There  have  been  a  few 
remarks  made  in  Convention  which  I  think 
quite  likely  to  excite  some  feeling  upon  the 
part  of  people  outside  of  the  Convention, 
and  perhaps  on  the  part  of  some  within  the 
Convention.  Such  remarks,  it  seems  to  me, 
are  not  desirable,  are  injudicious  and  inexpe- 
5 


dient.  We  are  all  aware  of  the  circvunstan- 
ces  vmder  which  we  meet ;  that  there  is  feeling 
in  others  as  well  as  in  ourselves.  "VVhen  men 
view  the  same  thing  from  different  points  of 
observation,  it  is  very  common  for  them  to 
perceive  the  same  points  in  different  lights ; 
to  judge  of  it  differently,  and  at  the  same 
time  honestly.  The  human  mind  is  capable, 
I  had  almost  said  of  any  absurdity,  and  what 
may  seem  to  us  absurd,  may  seem  to  others 
not  so  absurd,  and  it  becomes  us,  in  exciting 
times,  to  be  as  forbearing  in  our  judgment, 
and  in  our  language  as  possible.  I  regret  to 
have  heard  any  remarks  in  this  Convention 
derogatory  to  the  motives,  feelings,  or  views 
of  those  outside  of  the  Convention,  or  of 
those  who  differ  with  us  in  regard  to  the  or- 
ganization of  the  Convention.  Though  they 
may  choose  to  take  a  course  differing  from 
ours,  I  beUeve  every  man  here  is  firm  and 
decided  in  the  opinion  that  our  course  is  the 
proper  one,  the  regular  one,  and  the  right  one. 
Let  us  be  satisfied  with  that  and  go  straight 
forward  in  the  discharge  of  our  duties,  with- 
out turning  round  to  charge  wrong  upon  those 
who  differ  with  us.  I  hope  we  shall  be  so 
inclined  to  do,  and  I  believe  that  such  is  the 
feeling  of  the  Convention  generally ;  and  our 
good  judgment  will  teach  us  the  propriety  of 
acting  upon  that  feeling. 

A  word  in  regard  to  St.  Paul :  Some  re- 
marks have  been  di'opped  in  reference  to  her 
which  I  regretted  to  hear.  We  aU  have  our 
views  in  regard  to  different  places  in  our  Ter- 
ritory. We  may  have  our  prejudices,  but  we 
have  assembled  in  this  Convention  for  a  more 
dignified  purpose  than  that  of  passing  enco- 
miums or  censure  upon  the  people  of  any 
place.  St.  Paul  like  other  places,  has  its  good 
and  its  bad  men.  The  good  are  not  respon- 
sible for  the  bad,  and  some  whom  we  may  call 
bad,  may  not  be  as  bad  as  we  imagine.  It 
becomes  us  to  be  forbearing  in  our  censures 
of  any,  and  as  charitable  as  we  can  be  to  all. 
Things  have  transpired  in  St.  Paul  wliich  de- 
serve encomium,  and  if  she  were  a  theme  of 
discussion  in  this  Convention,  much  might  be 
said  of  which  she  might  be  proud.  But  St 
Paul  is  not  on  trial,  and  it  does  not  become  us 
to  censure  her.  There  are  noble  men  in  tliis 
city,  as  I  have  had  occasion  to  know  within 
the  last  six  years,  and  I  feel  pained  when  I 
hear  them  censured.    I  know  the  remarks  to 


M 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Wedmesday,  Jult  15. 


which  I  allude  were  not  intended  to  fall  upon 
the  good  men  of  this  city,  but  upon  another 
class,  whose  deeds  even  the  people  of  St.  Paul 
regard  with  disapprobation.  But  such  remarks 
cause  unpleasant  feelings,  and  we  should  be- 
ware how  we  digress  into  any  remarks  of  that 
nature.  We  should  conduct  ourselves  with 
the  proprieties  of  the  place  and  the  object  for 
which  we  are  assembled.  , 

I  hope  that  nothing  I  have  said  will  be  con- 
strued into  a  censure  of  any  remarks  which 
have  been  made.  My  remarks  are  not  so  in- 
tended, but  simply  as  a  suggestion  for  the 
future. 

Mr.  ALDRICH.  With  the  consent  of  the 
Convention  I  wish  to  say  that  I  perfectly 
agree  with  the  remarks  of  the  gentleman  who 
has  just  taken  Ms  seat.  They  are  my  senti- 
ments, but  better  expressed  than  I  should 
have  expressed  them.  I  regretted  to  hear 
some  remarks  which  have  been  made  here. — 
My  views  of  our  proper  course  are  that  we 
should  go  straight  forward,  calmly,  dignifiedly, 
and  firmly,  as  though  nothing  had  happened ; 
that  we  should  treat  every  man  with  cour- 
tesy, do  our  duties  as  we  have  sworn  to  per- 
form them,  drawing  in  no  side  issues,  but 
attending  strictly  to  the  business  for  which 
we  were  sent  here. 

Mr.  WILSON.  I  regret  that  this  discus- 
sion has  commenced  at  this  time,  as  every  in- 
dividual must  see  that  the  remarks  were  prob- 
ably intended  as  a  censure,  or  something 
equivalent,  upon  something  said  by  myself 
I  have  made  no  remarks  which  I  should  take 
back  under  any  circumstances  after  the  most 
mature  thought.  As  to  the  people  of  St. 
Paul,  I  have  nothing  to  say  against  them  indi- 
vidually. As  far  as  I  know,  they  are  like 
other  people,  good  and  bad.  The  remarks  I 
made  were  applicable  to  certain  influences 
which  they,  as  an  aggregate  body,  would 
have  on  our  Territory  under  a  certain  divis- 
ion. In  a  place  where  we  are  not  at  liberty 
to  discuss  this  matter,  I  think  it  wrong  to 
bring  it  up,  but  I  am  ready  to  sustain  my 
position  in  any  proper  place,  and  many  peo- 
ple of  St.  Paul  say  amen. 

Mr.  HUDSON.  I  wish  merely  to  say  that 
I  endorse  what  has  been  said  by  Messrs. 
NoBTH  and  Aldbich.  I  believe  it  is  always 
better  to  pour  oil  upon  the  troubled  wa- 
l&rn ;   to   say  notliing   against  any  man   or 


a  ny  place,  but  to  attend  strictly  to  our  busi- 
ness, build  up  our  o\vn  cause  and  the  inter- 
ests of  our  country. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  Had  we  not  better 
proceed  to  business.  What,  I  would  ask,  are 
gentlemen  going  to  pour  oil  upon  ?  If  what 
has  been  said  by  me,  fits  any  one,  let 
him  put  it  on.  I  don't  know  as  I  have  said 
anything  objectionable.  If  I  have  said  anything 
harsh  to  the  members  of  this  Convention,  of 
course,  I  am  sorry  for  it.  If  I  have  said 
anything  offensive  to  people  outside,  let  them 
come  and  fcilk  to  me  about  it. 

Mr.  NORTH.  I  hope  to  have  my  last 
remark  taken  in  its  full  force  and  meaning. 
I  did  not  intend  a  single  remark  I  made,  as 
a  censure,  or  as  fault  finding,  but  simply  as 
a  suggestion  to  be  thought  of  in  the  future. 

CALL   OF   THE    HOUSE. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH,  (at  one  o'clock)  moved 
that  there  be  a  call  of  the  House. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to ;  a  call  of  the 
House  was  had,  the  absentees  noted,  and  the 
sergeant-at-arms  directed  to  close  the  doors 
and  bring  in  the  absentees. 

The  doors  were  closed  until  4  o'clock,  p.  m., 
when  the  doors  being  opened,  on  motion  all 
further  proceedings  in  the  call  were  dispensed 
with. 

The  Convention  then  took  a  recess  imtil  to- 
morrow at  10  o'clock,  A.  M. 


THIRD  DAY. 

Wednesday,  July  15,  1857. 
The  Convention  reassembled  at  9  o'clock, 
A.  M.  and  a  quorum  being  present,  the  jour- 
nals of  Monday  and  Tuesday  were  read,  cor- 
aected  and  approved. 

MESSENGER   TO   THE    CONVENTION. 

The  PRESIDENT  laid  before  the  Conven- 
tion a  communication  from  B.  h.  Sellers, 
resigning  the  office  of  Messenger  to  the  Con- 
vention. 

The  resignation  was  accepted. 

Mr.  WILSON  moved  that  W,  H.  Shelley, 
the  present  Sergcant-at-Arms,  pro  temjwre, 
be  elected  to  supply  the  vacancy. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  I  move  to  amend  the 
motion  so  as  to  provide  for  the  election  of  two 
Messengers. 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Wedne-^day,  July  15. 


85 


Mr.  FOSTER.  I  would  suggest  that  it 
would  be  better  not  to  exceed  the  usual  and 
customary  officers  of  the  legislative  bodies  of 
this  Territory,  which  are  a  Sergeant-at-Arms, 
Messenger,  Door-keeper  and  Fireman.  The 
object  of  the  gentlemen  can  be  as  well  accom- 
plished by  the  election  of  a  Door-keeper. 
That  was  omitted  yesterday.  The  precedent 
of  legislative  bodies  will  be  looked  to,  to  as- 
certain if  our  officers  are  necessary. 

Mr.  NORTH.  I  do  not  see  the  necessity 
of  having  two  Messengers.  We  should  be  as 
economical  as  possible  at  the  commencement 
of  our  organization. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  I  do  not  undertake 
to  say  what  has  been  customary  in  this  Ter- 
ritory in  regard  to  the  election  of  Messengers, 
but  if  I  imderstand  the  customs  of  Conven- 
tions of  this  character  in  otlier  States,  it  has 
been  to  have  two  Messengers,  to  say  the  least. 
My  recollection  is  that  they  had  two  in  the 
Wisconsin,  three  in  the  Michigan,  and  I  think 
seven  or  eight  in  the  New  Hampshire  Conven- 
tion. My  judgment  is  that  the  time  is  not  far 
distant  when  we  shall  want  the  services  of  at 
least  two  Messengers.  Our  business  will, 
much  of  it,  be  transacted  by  Committees,  and 
there  will  be  considerable  ninning  from  this 
hall  to  the  Committee  rooms  and  back ;  and 
it  seems  to  me  we  should  have  two  of  these 
officers,  one  upon  each  side  of  the  Hall  so  that 
they  may  be  at  hand  for  the  piurpose,  and  also 
for  carrying  to  the  Clerk's  desk  such  resolu- 
tions and  papers  as  may  be  presented  by  the 
members. 

As  to  the  matter  of  economy,  I  am  as 
much  in  favor  of  it  as  any  other  man,  but  we 
should  not  carry  our  economy  to  the  extent 
of  depriving  ourselves  of  services  which  we 
absolutely  need. 

Mr.  DAVIS.  I  move  to  amend  by  striking 
out  the  name  of  Mr.  Shelly,  so  that  the  mo- 
tion shall  simply  provide  that  we  now  proceed 
to  the  election  of  a  Messenger. 

Mr.  WILSON.  In  making  my  motion,  j 
did  not  say  anything  about  the  gentleman 
whose  name  I  proposed,  nor  shall  I  do  so 
now.  I  content  mj^self  by  referring  the  Con- 
vention to  the  gentleman  as  our  present  Ser- 
geant-at-Arms, 'pro  tempore.  He  has  done  us 
good  service  thus  far,  and  is  just  the  man  we 
want,  and  I  trust  we  shall  not  spend  time  in 
trying  to  choose  a  better  man. 


Mr.  COGGSWELL.  I  have  no  objection 
to  Mr.  Shelley.  So  far  as  I  know  anything 
about  the  manner  in  which  he  has  discharged 
his  duties,  he  has  my  commendation;  but 
there  are  otlier  individuals  equally  worthy  and 
"deserving,  whose  names  should  be  proposed 
to  the  Convention.  From  such  names  we  can 
select  one.  I  shall  be  satisfied  with  any  of ' 
them. 

Mr.  DAVIS.  To  Mr.  Shelley  I  have  no 
objection ;  on  the  contrary,  from  what  I  have 
seen  of  liim,  I  like  him  both  as  a  man  and  a 
Republican.  I  think  we  can  place  the  fullest 
reliance  upon  him,  but  I  think  it  nothing  but 
justice  and  fareness  to  allow  the  Convention 
to  propose  other  names,  if  they  wish.  There 
are  other  individuals,  as  my  friend  Coggswell 
remarked,  equally  as  competent,  and  equally 
as  good  Republicans,  whose  names  I  should 
like  to  see  brought  before  the  Convention. 

The  amendment  was  agreed  to. 

The  original  resolution  was  adopted,  and 
W.  H.  Shelly  was  declared  duly  elected 
Messenger  to  the  Convention. 

REPORT  OF  COMJOTTEE  OS  STANDING  COSOnTTES. 

Mr.  COLBURN  from  the  select  committee 
to  which  was  referred  the  subject  of  desig- 
nating the  standing  committees  of  this  body, 
made  the  following  report : 

"The  select  committee  to  whom  wa^ referred 
the  resolution  of  Mr.  Cogswell,  have  attended  to 
that  duty  and  would  recommend  that  standing 
committees  be  appointed  to  whom  shall  be  referred 
all  matters  therein  contained  as  follows : 

1st.  A  committee  of  five — On,  tJu  Preamble  and 
Bill  of  Bights. 

2d.  A  committee  of  seven — On  the  Legislative 
Department. 

3d.  A  committee  of  three — On  the  Executive 
Department. 

4th.  A  committee  of  five — On  State  Officer$ 
other  than  Executive. 

oth.  A  committee  of  seven — On  the  Judiciary 
Department. 

6th.  A  committee  of  five — On  the  Organization 
and  Government  of  Cities  and  Villages. 

7th.  A  committee  of  five —  On  County  and  Town  - 
ship  Organisations  and  Officers. 

8th.  A  committee  of  five — On  the  Elective  Fran- 
chise. 

9th.  A  committee  of  five — On  Finances,  Taxa- 
tion, and  Public  Debt. 

loth.  A  committee  of  five — On  Edueatumal 
Institutions  and  Interests. 

11th.  A  committee  of  seven — On  Banks  and 
Corporations  otTier  than  Municipal. 

12th.    A  committee  of  three — On  the  Militia^ 


36 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Wednesday,  July  15. 


13th.  A  committee  of  five — On  Exemptions  of 
Seal  and  Personal  Estate,  and  the  Rights  of  Mar- 
ried Women. 

14th.  A  committee  of  five —  On  the  Punishment 
of  Crimes. 

15th.  A  committee  of  five — On  the  Amendm,ent 
and  Eevision  of  the  Constitution. 

16th.  A  committee  of  five — On  Internal  Im- 
provements. 

17th.  A  committee  of  three — On  Impeachment 
and  Eemavalfrom  Office. 

18th.  A  committee  of  five — On  Public  Property 
and  Expenditures. 

19th.     A  committee  of  five — On  Salaries. 

20th.  A  committee  of  five — On  Miscellaneous 
Business. 

21st.    A  committee  of  five — On  Schedule. 

22d.  A  committee  of  five — On  the  Arrange- 
ment and  Phraseology  of  the  Constitution." 

The  report  of  the  committee  was  accepted, 
and  the  committee  discharged. 

The  question  being  on  the  adoption  of  the 
report  of  the  committee. 

Mr.  MORGAN  called  for  a  separate  vote  on 
each  committee,  and  the  question  being  put, 
the  recommendation  as  to  committees  Nos.  1, 
8,  4,  5,  6,  7,  8,  9,  10,  11,  12,  14,  15,  16,  17, 
18,  19,  20, 21  and  22  was  agreed  to  without 
debate. 

On  the  reading  of  the  2d  committee — a 
committee  of  seven  on  the  Legislative  Depart- 
ment. 

Mr.  QAYDEN  said — There  are  so  many- 
committees,  it  seems  to  me  that  five  members 
are  enough  on  any  one  committee.  I  there- 
fore move  to  amend  by  striking  out  "7"  and 
inserting  "  5." 

Mr.  COLBURN.  That  matter  was  con- 
sidered by  the  select  committee.  This  is  an 
important  committee,  as  are  also  the  com- 
mittees on  the  Judiciary  and  on  the  Banking 
Department,  and  we  thought  it  desirable  on 
those  committees  to  have  as  much  counsel  as 
we  could.  But  if  seven  cannot  attend,  five 
would  be  a  quonmi  to  do  business. 

Mr.  HAYDEN.  My  idea  was,  that  as  the 
committees  are  so  numerous  it  would  not  be 
convenient  to  have  more  than  five  members 
upon  a  committee,  as  many  of  the  commit- 
tees would  probably  be  in  session  at  the  same 
time.  A  committee  consisting  of  five  mem- 
bers, could  act  if  only  three  were  present, 
and  as  a  general  thing  throe  can  expedite 
business  more  rapidly  than  a  larger  number. 
In  my  opinion,  five  is  a  sufficient  number  on 


those  committees  which  should  be  strong,  and 
three  on  the  others. 

Mr.  PERKINS.  That  is  an  important  com- 
mittee and  it  is  important  to  bring  to  bear 
upon  it  all  the  wisdom  possible  to  apply  to  it. 
This  committee  especially,  and  the  one  on 
the  Judiciary,  should  consist  of  seven  mem- 
bers, and  their  object  should  be  not  so  much 
to  expedite  and  get  through  business,  as  to 
deliberate  calmly  and  seriously  upon  the  sub- 
jects brought  before  them. 

The  amendment  was  not  agreed  to,  and  the 
recommendation  of  the  select  committee  was 
adopted. 

The  report  as  to  the  13th  committee  was 
read — a  committee  of  five  on  Exemption  of 
Real  and  Personal  Estate,  and  the  Rights  of 
Married  Women. 

Mr.  MORGAN  said :  I  move  to  strike  out 
that  committee.  The  subjects  contemplated 
by  that  committee  have  heretofore  been  sub- 
jects of  legislation,  and  not  considered  proper 
subjects  to  incorporate  into  a  constitution. 
They  are  matters  which  constantly  change 
with  public  opinion.  What  might  be  deemed 
a  sufficient  exemption  of  real  estate  at  this 
time,  might  not  be  at  another  time. 

As  to  the  rights  of  married  women,  I  have 
never  known  them  introduced  into  any  Con- 
stitution. They  are  strictly  subjects  of  legis- 
lation. 

Mr.  FOSTER.  Although  they  are  matters 
of  legislation,  rather  than  of  constitutional 
provisions,  yet  I  think  a  committee  upon 
that  subject  should  be  appointed.  No  doubt 
the  subject  will  be  mooted  and  proposi- 
tion made  in  reference  thereto.  At  all 
events,  we  should  have  a  committee  to  which 
they  could  be  referred,  and  then  it  lies  in 
their  judgment  whether  to  report  them  back 
or  not.  Let  them  put  the  matter  in  shape, 
if  the  Convention  is  to  act  upon  it. 

Mr.  MORGAN.  My  principal  object  is  not 
to  lessen  the  number  of  committees.  It  is 
evident  that  some  members  must  be  placed 
upon  two  or  three  committees. 

The  motion  was  not  agreed  to. 

The  recommendation  of  the  special  com- 
mittee wa.s  then  adopted. 

The  question  was  then  taken  on  the  adop- 
tion of  the  report  of  the  committee  as  a  whole, 
and  it  was  decided  in  the  affinnative. 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— AVednesdat,  Jlly  15. 


37 


COMMITTEE   OX   BOCXDABY   CF   STATE,  &C. 

Mr.  SECOMBE  moved  that  an  additional 
standing  committee  of  five  on  the  name  and 
boundaries  of  the  State  be  appointed. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  The  select  committee  had 
that  subject  under  consideration,  but  came  to 
the  conclusion  that  the  question  was  sub- 
stantially settled  by  the  vote  of  the  Convention 
on  Monday  last.  If  we  have  accepted  the 
Enabling  Act,  we  have  also  accepted  the 
boundaries  specified  therein.  If  that  vote 
accepted  the  Enabling  Act,  as  most  believe  it 
did,  and  as  the  committee  think,  it  obviates 
the  necessity  of  such  a  committee  as  this. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  agree  with  the  Chair- 
man of  the  committee  who  reported  the  list 
of  committees,  as  to  the  result  of  the  resolu- 
tion passed  the  other  day,  but  that  does  not 
obviate  the  necessity  of  having  this  commit- 
tee appointed  to  draft  an  article  to  be  inserted 
in  the  Constitution,  so  that  the  Constitution 
itself  shall  contain  the  name  and  designate  the 
boundaries  of  the  State.  It  is  not  my  intention 
or  desire  to  have  any  change  made  in  the 
name  and  boundaries  as  contained  in  the 
Enabling  Act.  It  should  be  apparent  to  any 
one  taking  up  our  Constitution,  what  our 
name  and  boundaries  are.  It  has  been  cus- 
tomary in  similar  Conventions,  to  have  such 
a  committee. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  That  matter  having 
been  substantially  settled,  as  admitted  by 
the  gentleman  firom  St.  Anthony,  it  properly 
comes  imder  the  supervision  of  the  commit- 
tee on  Arrangement  and  Phraseolog}',  who 
in  the  course  of  their  duties  will  arrange  and 
place  it  in  the  Constitution. 

Mr.  HUDSON.  I  think  the  gentleman 
who  made  the  motion  has  a  correct  idea  of 
the  matter.  The  committee  on  Arrangements 
and  Phraseology  have  nothing  to  arrange  but 
what  is  sent  to  them.  I  admit  that  we  have 
settled  the  matter,  but  who  knows  the  fact 
except  members  of  the  Convention.  The 
Constitution  should  itself  give  the  name  and 
boundaries  of  the  State. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  I  shall  vote  for  the 
resolution  for  the  reason  that  I  do  not  believe 
that  the  question  of  boundary  is  settled.  As 
one  member  of  the  Select  Committee,  I  am 
not  aware  that  any  thing  was  said  in  regard 
to  the  formation  of  a  Committee  of  this  kind. 
Had  there  been,  T  should  have  been  in  favor 


of  it.  In  the  Wisconsin  Constitutional  Con- 
vention they  had  a  committee  of  this  charac- 
ter. That  Convention  was  held  under  an 
Enabling  Act  not  substantially  diflTering  from 
ours.  For  the  reason  that  I  do  not  consider 
this  question  settled,  and  that  it  must  neces- 
saiily  come  up  hereafter,  I  am  in  favor  of 
this  committee.  I  know  that  some  members 
here,  living  in  certain  localities,  feel  inclined 
for  some  reason  to  express  themselves  in  favor 
of  the  permanent  settlement  of  this  question. 
For  my  part  the  idea  that  it  is  permanently 
settled  by  the  adoption  of  the  resolution  the 
other  day,  seems  to  me  ridiculous.  I  shall 
vote  in  favor  of  the  committee. 

Mr.  FOSTER.  The  subject  will  come  up, 
and  there  is  force  in  the  remark  of  the  gen- 
tleman from  Goodhue  [Mr.  Hudson]  that  the 
committee  on  Arrangement  and  Phraseology 
will  hardly  have  the  subject  before  them 
unless  it  comes  in  a  different  shape  from  that 
in  which  it  now  is.  As  one  coming  from  a 
locality  which  believes  that  the  action  taken 
the  other  day  was  correct,  I  am  willing  to 
trust  the  committee  and  the  Convention  on 
that  subject. 

Mr.  NORTH.  I  am  perfectly  willing  that 
any  amount  of  investigation  and  discussion 
if  necessary,  should  be  had  upon  the  question 
of  the  boundary,  but  it  seems  to  me  that  we 
have  settled  the  question  once,  after  consider- 
able discussion  and  deliberation.  It  seemel 
decidedly  agreed  upon  that  we  should  accept 
the  proposition  of  Congress  in  accordance 
with  the  Enabling  Act,  which  settles  the  boun- 
dary question  definitely.  It  strikes  me  that 
to  appoint  a  committee  on  boundaries  now,  is 
inconsistent.  I  have  very  little  idea  that  after 
the  most  lengthy  discussion  and  most  mature 
deliberation  we  shall  change  the  position  of 
that  matter  for  I  believe  that  a  majority  of 
the  people  of  the  Territory  wish  it  to  remain 
as  it  is.  Such  is  the  sense  of  the  Convention 
dehberately  expressed.  But  the  question 
ought  to  be  settled  at  once  if  it  is  not  already 
settled,  and  if  necessary,  settled  by  a  vote 
upon  this  proposition. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  agree  that  we  have 
definitely  settled  the  name  and  boundaries  of 
the  State,  but  we  did  it  for  a  particular 
purpose,  and  in  compliance  with  a  specific 
portion  of  the  Enabling  Act,  which  was  a 
prerequisite  to  our  going  on  to  transact  busi- 


38 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Wednesday,  Jixv  15. 


ness.  That  action  was  preliminan',  and 
which  we  were  bound  to  take  before  we 
could  proceed  to  form  a  Constitution.  Hav- 
ing taken  that  action,  I  agree  with  the  gentle- 
man as  to  the  result  of  it,  but  at  the  same 
time  I  insist  that  it  is  desirable  and  necessary 
that  there  should  be  a  committee  to  prepare 
an  article  to  be  inserted  in  the  Constitution 
setting  forth  the  name  and  boundaries.  The 
Convention  of  Wisconsin,  acting  under  an 
Enabling  Act  similar  to  ours  in  every  material 
respect,  had  such  a  committee,  which  pre- 
pared for  the  Constitution  a  distinct  article 
setting  forth  the  name  and  boundaries,  as 
they  were  proposed  by  the  Enabling  Act. — 
Who  is  to  do  the  work  of  preparing  such  an 
article?  It  has  been  suggested  that  the 
committee  on  Arrangement  and  Phraseology 
should  do  it.  They  have  not  the  i)ower  to 
originate  matter,  but  only  to  insert  into  the 
Constitution  the  result  of  our  action  here. — 
The  language  of  the  resolution  adopted  the 
other  day  is  to  this  eflFect :  "  Resolved,  that 
"  it  is  the  wish  of  the  people  of  Minnesota 
"  to  come  into  the  Union  as  a  State."  That 
would  make  a  poor  appearance  in  the  Consti- 
tution, and  it  seems  reasonable  that  we  should 
have  a  committee  for  the  purpose  which  I 
have  stated,  and  then  when  any  member  pro- 
poses, or  any  committee  reports  a  different 
boundary  from  that  which  I  tliink  we  have 
adopted  in  fact,  there  will  be  time,  ample 
time  for  discussing  it,  and  it  will  do  no 
harm. 

Mr.  DAVIS.  I  do  not  believe  that  the 
question  of  boundary  was  definitely  settled 
by  the  resolution  passed  on  Monday.  Only 
the  question  of  our  desire  to  come  into  the 
Union  as  a  State,  was  settled.  I  look  upon 
this  matter  merely  as  a  proposition  of  Con- 
gress to  the  Territory  of  Minnesota.  A  mere 
proposition  saying  "  if  you  will  do  so  and  so, 
'  we  will  do  so  and  so."  It  does  not  follow 
as  a  matter  of  course  that  we  must  accept  all 
the  other  propositions.  It  does  not  follow 
that  we  must  accept  the  whole  or  none.  We 
may  wish  to  accept  to  a  certain  extent,  but 
desire  to  differ  from  those  propositions  in 
other  respects  which  are  not  at  all  essential 
to  our  acting  under  the  act.  They  are  bound 
if  we  accept  the  propositions  entire;  they 
are  bound  only  in  good  faith  however. 
Though  we  do  adopt  a  different  line.   Con- 


gress I  think  will  not  dare  to  refuse  our 
admission.  I  think  if  this  whole  matter  were 
thoroughly  understood  by  the  people  of  the 
whole  State,  they  would  desire  a  different 
boundary.  Therefore  I  am  in  favor  of  this 
committee.     I  shall  vote  for  it. 

Mr.  WILSON.  I  do  not  think  this  the 
time  to  argue  this  question,  nor  do  I  think  it 
necessary.  This  committee  is  necessary 
whether  the  boundary  be  or  be  not  settled. 
By  the  rule  which  we  have  adopted  each  arti- 
cle as  it  is  adopted,  is  referred  to  the  commit- 
the  on  Arrangement  of  Phraseology.  That 
was  the  object  for  which  the  committee  was 
appointed,  and  it  has  no  jurisdiction  beyond 
what  is  referred  to  it  by  the  Convention.  We 
must  have  a  committee  upon  the  name  and 
boundaries  of  the  State.  The  question  will 
be  discussed  just  as  much  whether  we  have  a 
committee  or  not.  I  think  the  object  will  be 
attained  more  directly  by  the  appointment  of 
such  a  committee. 

Mr.  MANTOli.  I  find  by  looking  at  the 
act  enabling  the  State  of  Wisconsin  to  form 
a  State  Constitution,  that  it  is  very  similar  to 
the  one  under  which  we  are  acting.  I  find 
in  the  reports  of  that  Convention  that  there 
was  a  committee  similar  to  the  one  that  is 
now  proposed  to  be  appointed.  That  Com- 
mittee took  the  subject  of  boundaries  into 
consideration,  and  reported  an  article  in  the 
shape  of  an  ordinance  accepting  the  proposed 
boundaries  as  laid  down  in  the  enabling  act 
of  Congress.  I  see  no  reason  why  we  should 
not  adopt  the  resolution. 

I  do  not  know  as  I  have  made  up  my  mind 
as  to  the  actual  boundaries  of  the  incoming 
State.  I  do  not  know  that  when  we  are  act- 
ing under  an  enabling  act  of  Congress  saying 
we  may  come  in  as  a  State  within  certain  pro- 
posed hmits,  we  may  not  run  a  line  within 
those  boundaries,  but  that  we  cannot  step 
beyond  those  boundaries  is  indisputable. 
We  certainly  should  have  something  in  the 
Constitution  which  will  show  to  the  people 
what  those  boundaries  are,  without  referring 
them  back  to  the  enabling  act.  For  this  rea- 
son I  shall  give  my  support  to  the  resolution. 
The  boundaries  should  be  laid  out  and  the 
land-marks  understood,  so  that  succeeding 
generations  may  know  what  our  action  is, 
without  having  to  go  back  to  the  enabling  act. 
That  they  may  not  have. 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Wednesday,  July  15. 


39 


Mr.  COLBUEN.  The  only  object  I  had 
was  to  prevent  occupying  our  time  unneces- 
sarily by  discussion,  but  as  discussion  has  got 
to  come,  I  hope  the  motion  will  prevail. 

Mr.  BATES.  -  I  consider  tliat  the  bounda- 
ries were  definitely  settled  the  other  day,  and 
I  cannot  see  that  there  is  any  question  in  re- 
gard to  them. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  If  I  actually  beUeved 
that  our  action  in  the  adoption  of  the  resolu- 
tion on  Monday  was  a  final  settlement  of  the 
boundary  question,  I  certainly  would  go 
against  the  resolution  of  the  gentleman  from 
St.  Anthony.  But  I  do  not  believe  it.  If  I 
understand  the  motion,  which  is  tb  appoint  a 
committee  upon  the  name  and  boundaries  of 
the  proposed  State,  it  would  suit  my  idea  better 
if  it  were  worded  so  as  to  read  something  like 
this — "  that  there  should  be  a  standing  com- 
"mittee  on  the  boimdaries  of  the  proposed 
"State,"  for  the  reason  that  I  understand  that 
Enabling  Act  does  lay  down,  establish  and 
mention  the  name  of  the  proposed  State.  I 
understand  that  we  have  no  choice  so  far  as 
the  name  is  concerned.  The  first  section  of 
the  Enabling  Act  reads  thus — "that  the  inhabi- 
"tants  of  that  portion  of  the  Territory  of  Min- 
''nesota  which  is  embraced  within  the  following 
"limits,"  naming  them,  shall  have  the  power  to 
do  certain  things.  What  are  those  thuigs? 
That  they  shall  have  the  power  to  form  for 
themselves  a  constitution  and  state  govern- 
ment by  the  name  of  the  State  of  Minnesota, 
and  to  come  into  the  Union  on  an  equal  foot- 
ing with  the  original  States.  So  that  as  to 
the  name  we  have  no  power  to  make  any 
alteration. 

But  that  section  says  nothing  about  the 
permanent  establishment  of  boundaries.  It 
onl^  gives  the  inhabitants  who  reside  within 
certain  limits  the  right  to  select  certain  indi- 
viduals who  shall  meet  here  for  the  perform- 
ance of  certain  duties.  The  resolution  of 
Monday  expressed  nothing  more  than  the 
wish  of  the  people  to  be  organized  as  a  State 
— not  a  State  with  certain  boundaries — not  a 
State  which  should  commence  at  a  certain 
point,  and  run  around  m  a  certain  manner, 
and  come  back  to  the  point  of  starting.  Now 
for  the  purjwse  of  having  a  committee  to  in- 
vestigate this  question  of  boundary,  so  that 
the  question  may  be  met  fairly,  I  am  in  fevor 
of  the  appointment  of  this  committee. 


It  seems  to  me  unfair  that  those  who  hap- 
pen to  entertain  different  views  from  us,  in 
regard  to  the  effect  of  the  resolution  adopted 
on  Monday,  should  shut  the  door  upon  us, 
and  say  "  because  tee  beheve  the  question  is 
"  settled  we  will  not  place  you  in  such  a  posi- 
"tion  before  the  Convention  that  you  can 
"  express  your  views  and  sentiments." 

My  own  locality  or  any  individual  senti- 
ments do  not  require  that  I  should  take  any 
particular  stand  in  reference  to  the  matter. 
I  do  not  propose  to  pledge  myself  to  vote  for 
one  particular  line  or  another.  My  simple 
desire  is  that  both  sides  may  be  heard,  and 
heard  through  a  committee.  When  the 
proper  time  comes  I  think  I  can  introduce 
an  array  of  authorities — authorities  which 
are  the  actions  of  Conventions  which  have 
assembled  vmder  Enabling  Acts  similar  to 
oiurs — to  !?how  that  this  question  is  not  set- 
tled, and  that  this  Convention  has  the  right 
to  pray  that  Congress  will  alter  the  proposed 
boundaries.  Wisconsin  made  such  a  prayer, 
Iowa  made  such  a  prayer,  and  Michigan, 
and  Missouri,  and  Illinois  made  such  a  prayer. 
My  recollection  is  that  those  prayers  were 
heard  in  some  instances,  though  not  heard 
or  respected  in  others. 

For  these  reasons  I  ask  that  the  committee 
may  be  appointed  to  take  the  matter  under 
consideration.  If  they  believe  that  the  ques- 
tion is  settled,  all  tliey  have  to  do  is  to  make 
a  report  that,  in  their  judgment,  the  Enabling 
Act  has  settled  the  matter,  and  that  it  is  no 
longer  a  matter  for  debate  or  discussion  in 
this  Convention.  If  that  shall  be  the  opinion 
of  the  committee,  so  far  as  their  duty  is 
concerned,  it  will  meet  my  approbation. 

The  question  was  then  taken  on  the  motion 
of  Mr.  Secojcbe,  and  it  was  agreed  to. 

On  motion  of  Mr.  COLBURN : 

"  Ordered,  that  a  commmittee  of  three  be  ap- 
pointed on  Printing,  and  a  committee  of  five  on 
Supplies  and  Expenditures." 

On  motion  of  Mr.  COLBURN: 

"  Ordered,  that  a  committee  of  five  be  appointed 
to  be  called  'the  committee  on  Elections  and 
Credentials.'  " 

rSE   OF   TEBKITOBIAL   LIBRARY. 

Mr.  COGSWELL.  I  offer  the  following 
resolution : 

"  Besohed,  That  a  special  committee  of  three 
be  appointed  to  ascertain  if  the  members  of  this 
Convention  can  hare  access  to  the  Territorial  Li- 
brarv,  and  if  so  durine  what  hours." 


40 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Wednesday,  July  15. 


I  have  endeavored  to  obtain  access  to  the 
Territorial  library,  and  each  time  have  found 
the  door  locked.  I  am  not  aware  what  tjjie 
rules  and  regulations  of  the  library  are. 
When  I  left  home  I  supposed  that  every 
member  would  have  access  to  the  books  in 
that  library^  and  for  that  reason  neglected  to 
bring  books  which  I  otherwise  should  have 
brought.  I  need  the  assistance  of  books  to 
discharge  my  duties  as  a  member  of  this  Con- 
vention. I  am  not  competent  to  originate 
a  Constitution  in  all  its  parts  without  consult- 
ing books,  containing  the  proceedings  of 
other  Conventions  of  other  States ;  and  also 
other  works.  For  that  reason  I  have  offered 
the  resolution. 

The  resolution  was  adopted  and  the  Chair 
thereon  appointed  as  such  committee,  Messrs. 
CoGGSWELL,  Coombs,  and  Hudson. 

STATIONERY. 

Mr.  FOSTER  offered  the  foUowing  resolu- 
tion : 

"  Resolved,,  That  the  committee  on  Supplies  and 
Expenditures  are  hereby  instructed  to  make  a  con- 
tract for  a  supply  of  8taiionery  for  the  use  of  the 
members  and  officers  of  this  Convention,  that  is 
to  say,  not  to  exceed  in  amount  $5  to  eacli  member, 
and  such  amount  as  they  may  deem  necessary  for 
the  use  of  the  officers  of  the  Convention." 

The  resolution  was  adopted. 

PRINTING  THE   ENABLING   ACT. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  I  submit  the  follow- 
ing resolution : 

"  Besolved,  That  two  hundred  copies  of  the  late 
Act  of  Congress  entitled  "  An  Act  to  authorize  the 
people  of  the  Territory  of  Minnesota  to  form  a 
Constitution  and  State  Government  preparatory  to 
their  admission  into  the  Union  on  an  equal  footing 
with  the  original  States,"  be  printed  for  the  use 
of  the  members  of  this  Convention." 

So  far  as  my  knowledge  extends  it  appears 
to  me  that  not  one  member  in  ten  has  a  copy 
of  what  we  denominate  the  Enabling  Act, 
and  in  my  judgnv5nt  we  do  not  understand 
its  provisions  as  we  ought. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  move  to  amend  the 
resolution  by  adding  "  also  an  act  of  the 
*'  Extra  session  of  the  Legislature  of  this 
"  Territory  in  reference  to  the  same  subject 
matter  of  said  act  of  Congress." 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  I  accept  the  amend- 
ment. 

The  resolution  as  modified  was  llion 
adopted. 


And  then  on  motion  of  Mr.  NORTH,  the 
Convention  (at  one  o'clock)  took  a  recess 
until  three  o'clock. 

AFTERNOON  SESSION. 

The  Convention  re-assembled  at  three 
o'clock. 

SUPPLY  OF  PAPERS  TO  MEMBERS. 

MR.  HARDING  offered  the  foUowing  res- 
olution : 

"  Resolved,  That  the  publishers  of  the  St.  Paul 
Daily  Times,  the  St.  Paul  Advei^tiser,  and  the 
Daily  MiiinesoUaii  be  requested  to  furnish  to  each 
of  the  members  of  this  Convention,  two  copies  of 
their  several-  daily  papers  during  the  session  of 
this  Convention." 

Mr.  FOSTER.  I  would  enquire  why  the 
"Pioneer"  is  not  included ?  It  is  just  now 
a  very  interesting  paper,  and  I  want  to  have 
it.  But  I  think  the  better  way  would  be  to 
use  general  language,  requesting  the  Editors 
of  the  city  papers  to  furnish  us  each  with  two 
copies  daily. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  If  it  is  the  intention  of 
either  of  these  papers  to  publish  the  journal 
of  our  proceedings,  of  course  I  desire  to  have 
the  perusal  of  that  paper.  It  seems  to  me 
that  it  would  be  better  to  have  the  Conven- 
tion make  an  arrangement  to  have  the  official 
journal  of  the  Convention  published  in  one 
paper  or  more,  so  that  when  we  get  the  papers 
we  shall  get  some  equivalent  for  what  we 
pay.  To  be  sure  there  is  interesting  matter 
in  all  the  papers,  and  especially  the  one 
named  by  Dr.  Foster,  but  my  object  would 
be  to  procure  each  morning  in  print,  the 
journal  of  the  day  before. 

Mr.  PERKINS  offered  the  following  sub- 
stitute : 

"Resolved,  That  a  select  committee  of  three  be 
appointed  to  negotiate  with  some  one  of  the  news- 
paper publishers  in  this  city  to  publish  an  official 
report  of  the  proceedings  of  this  Convention,  and 
furnish  each  member  of  the  Convention  daily  with 
twelve  printed  copies  of  such  report ;  to  be  charged 
to  the  contingent  expenses  of  the  Convention." 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  My  present  impres- 
sion is  that  it  woiild  not  be  any  thing  unusual, 
or  out  of  the  order  of  proceedings  of  Con- 
ventions of  this  kind  to  order  copies  of  such 
newspapers  as  may  be  printed  at  the  Capitol. 
The  language  of  the  substitute  seems  to 
imply — for  I  did  not  distinctly  hear  it — that 
we  should  procure  copies  of  such  papers  as 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Wednesday,  July  15. 


41 


shall  publish  the  official  reports  of  this  Con- 
vention. I  do  not  understand  what  is  intended 
by  that  word  "official."  I  do  not  under- 
stand that  any  paper  in  St.  Paul  or  out  of  it 
publishes  an  official  report  of  our  proceed- 
ings. The  word  "official"  seems  to  carry 
upon  its  face  a  meaning  something  like  "  legal 
authority ' '  in  such  connection .  No  authority 
has  been  delegated  by  this  Convention  to 
any  publisher  to  publish  anything  in  the 
nature  of  an  official  accoimt  of  our  proceed- 
ings. What  may  be  done  hereafter  I  don't 
pretend  to  say. 

So  far  as  I  am  concerned  I  do  not  care 
anything  about  any  of  these  newspapers. 
That  is,  I  am  not  in  favor  of  appropriating 
Uncle  Sam's  money,  or  the  money  which  per- 
haps win  come  out  of  the  people  of  Min- 
nesota, to  pay  for  newspapers  for  us  to  read. 
If  we  want  to  read  this  or  that  paper  let  us 
pay  for  it  out  of  oiu-  own  pockets  like  men. 
I  know  of  no  authority  vested  in  us  as  a 
Conventional  body,  either  by  the  Enabling 
Act  or  any  other  law,  to  appropriate  money 
for  any  such  purpose.  True  Conventions 
have  done  such  things  before,  but  my  impres- 
sion is  that  they  have  done  so  imder  entirely 
different  circumstances  from  those  under 
which  we  are  placed. 

I  move  to  lay  the  resolution  and  the  sub- 
stitute on  the  table. 

The  question  was  taken,  and  the  motion  was 
not  agreed  to. 

Mr*.  FOSTER.  When  we  are  here  assem- 
bled upon  the  people's  business,  and  are  s\u-- 
rounded  with  papers  which  are  constantly 
criticising  our  doings,  and  some  in  particular 
pointing  out  our  errors,  and  which  everybody 
sees  but  ourselves,  imless  we  go  and  pay  for 
them  out  of  our  own  scanty  stipend,  I  can 
see  no  reason  why  the  people  should  not  pay 
for  what  seems  to  be  incident  to  our  position 
as  the  people's  agents.  To  them  it  is  of 
little  moment,  but  to  us  who  have  so  many 
calls  made  upon  our  purse  in  consequence  of 
our  being  here,  it  is  a  matter  of  considerable 
importance.  I  am  not  in  favor  at  this  time 
of  engaging  the  publication  of  our  official 
record,  but  I  am  in  favor  of  having  placed 
upon  our  desks  the  newspapers  which  have 
at  least  a  sketch  of  our  proceeding,  and  in 
some  of  them  whole  columns  of  criticisms 
upon  our  doings.  We  may  learn  something 
6 


from  them  and  our  constituents  want  to  see 
what  is  going  on  as  well  as  we  do.  How 
much  easier  to  furnish  them  that  information 
by  papers  than  by  letters,  and  how  much 
more  fully  it  can  be  done.  Gentlemen  say, 
why  not  do  so  out  of  our  own  pockets?  We 
are  engaged,  not  upon  our  business,  but 
upon  the  people's  business,  and  they  ought 
to  pay  the  expense.  Nor  should  Uncle  Sam 
begrudge  a  little  expense  to  start  us  out  with 
our  fireedom  papers.  I  will  move  to  amend 
the  substitute  by  striking  out  all  after  the 
word  "  resolved,"  and  insert — 

"That  the  publishers  of  the  varions  daily  and 
weekly  newspapers  of  St.  Paul  be  requested  to 
furnish  two  copies  of  each  publication  to  every 
member  of  this  Convention." 

Mr.  PERKINS.  My  idea  is  that  there  will 
be  a  paper  selected  to  publish  the  official 
reports  of  this  Convention.  As  to  the  other 
papers,  it  does  not  seem  to  me  right  to  pro- 
cure them  and  saddle  the  expense  upon  the 
contingent  expenses  of  the  Convention.  What 
is  the  object  of  having  those  papers  at  all  ? 
Is  it  to  circulate  them  through  the  country  ? 
I  am  not  as  anxious  to  circulate  those  papers 
that  lie  about  the  Convention  as  I  am  those 
that  state  the  truth,  or  furnish  the  official 
record.  The  statements  of  those  papers  mis- 
lead the  pubhc  mind,  and  prejudice  it  against 
the  Convention.  My  object  is  to  get  a 
reasonable  number  of  the  correct  reports  of 
the  Convention  for  each  member,  and  send 
them  among  the  people,  that  oiu:  constituents 
may  know  what  we  are  doing.  It  seems  to 
me  absurd  to  get  copies  of  the  Pioneer  which 
does  not  teU  a  correct  story,  and  only  the 
same  number  of  the  papers  which  publishes 
the  official  report. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  am  in  favor  substan- 
tially of  the  substitute,  and  opposed  to  the 
amendment.  It  seems  to  me  that  if  we  can 
have  laid  upon  our  tables  each  morning  a 
paper  which  will  publish  the  journal  of  our 
proceedings  kept  by  the  Secretary,  it  would 
be  of  great  use  to  us.  We  could  examine  it 
and  discover  the  errors,  if  any,  before  the 
Jommal  is  read  by  the  Secretary.  Upon  a 
simple  reading  of  the  Journal,  without  inspec- 
tion, we  are  likely  to  let  errors  slip  in,  which 
would  be  corrected  if  we  had  laid  upon  our 
table,  previously,  a  printed  copy  of  it.  I  am 
opposed  to  the  amendment,  because  I  do  not 


42 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— WEDNESiMY,  July  15. 


think  that  we  should  call  upon  the  pubUc  to 
pay  for  papers,  simply  that  we  may  read  what 
is  said  about  the  Convention,  or  about  matters 
outside  of  it.  The  true  policy  is  for  us  ordi- 
narily to  pay  ourselves.  I  shall  consequently 
vote  for  the  substitute,  and  against  the 
amendment. 

Mr.  PERKINS.  I  do  not  so  much  object 
to  extra  copies,  as  I  do  to  restricting  the  num- 
ber which  contains  the  otficial  report  to  the 
same  number  as  the  others.  People  at  a  dis- 
tance are  not  so  well  able  to  judge  of  the  cor. 
rectness  or  incorrectness  of  the  representa- 
tions in  the  papers  as  we  arc.  These  journals 
do  go  abroad,  and  I  have  no  objection  to  their 
being  circulated  by  us,  but  I  say  the  truth 
should  be  more  extensively  circulated.  Twelve 
copies  of  the  official  report  is  better  than 
twelve  copies  of  garbled  proceedings. 

Mr.  MURPHY.  I  move  that  the  word 
"weekly"  be  stricken  out  from  the  amend- 
ments. We  get  the  dailies,  which  contain  all 
that  appears  in  the  weekly. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to. 

Mr.  HAYDEN.  I  move  to  amend  the 
amendment  by  striking  out  "two"  and  in- 
serting "one."  I  think  one  copy  of  the 
Pioneer  is  all  we  need  and  one  copy  of  each 
cf  the  other  dailies  will  answer  to  furnish  us 
with  all  the  information  we  can  get  from  them. 
When  we  get  an  official  paper,  I  agree  that  it 
will  be  well  to  procure  a  larger  number  of 
that.  I  do  not  wish  to  send  abroad  such 
felshoods  as  are  contained  in  some  of  the 
papers. 

Mr.  NORTH.  I  have  got  hold  of  a  copy 
of  the  Piomer  once  or  twice,  and  there  was 
choice  matter  in  it  which  I  desired  to  keep. 
I  want  to  preserve  some  of  them  for  future 
use,  but  I  have  been  unable  thus  far  to  hold 
onto  them.  If  I  can  get  two  copies  I  shall  be 
likely  to  succeed. 

Mr.  GERRISH.  I  think  the  best  way  is 
to  send  the  Pioneer  into  the  country  with 
with  the  other  papers.  If  our  object  is  to 
convert  the  people  to  our  views,  that  is  the 
very  best  course  we  can  pursue.  The  people 
will  then  see  the  ridiculous  position  the 
Pioneer  takes,  and  having  both  accounts  they 
can  judge  better  how  both  parties  stand. 

The  question  was  taken  on  Mr.  IIaydem's 
amendment,  and  it  was  not  agreed  to. 

Mr.   CLEGUORN,  offered  the    following 


amendment  to  'the  amendment.  Strike  out 
all  after  the  word  "resolved,"  and  insert — 

"  That  each  member  of  this  Convention  shall  be 
entitled  to  ten  copies  daily  of  any  paper  published 
in  this  city,  which  he  may  select." 

Mr.  COGGSWELL."  I  feel  it  my  duty,  as 
an  individual,  to  place  myself  upon  the  record 
right  in  this  matter.  Simply  because  Con- 
ventions of  this  character  have  once  done 
things,  it  does  not  follow  that  we  should 
do  the  same  things.  Simply  because  a  con- 
ventional body  has  ordered  papers  for  the 
individual  benefit  of  its  members,  it  does  not 
follow  that  we  are  bound  to  take  the  same 
course,  or  that  we  have  a  right  to  do  so.  It 
seems  to  me  that  we  ought  not  to  make  an 
appropriation,  either  of  our  money,  or  of  the 
Federal  Treasury,  unless  there  is  some  reason 
for  it.  The  first  reason  assigned  for  doing  so, 
was  assigned  by  the  gentlemen  from  Dakota 
county  (Mr.  Foster,)  which  was  that  we 
might  learn  something,  provided  we  took  that 
number  of  papers.  There  are  other  and 
better  sources  to  which  we  can  go  for  the 
purpose  of  obtaining  information.  What 
kind  of  information  do  we  want?  We  want 
such  kind  of  information  as  wilL  enable  us  as 
members  of  the  Convention,  to  discharge  our 
duties.  Is  that  information  likely  to  be  ob- 
tained from  newspapers  ?  My  impresaion  is 
that  the  people  of  the  Territory  and  the 
Federal  Government  have  provided  sources, 
which,  if  we  can  have  access  to  them,  are 
amply  sufficient  to  aid  us  in  that  reSpect. 

Another  thing.  If  we  have  the  right  to 
subscribe  to  newspapers  in  St,  Paul,  have  we 
not  the  same  right  to  subscribe  for  papers 
published  in  St.  Anthony  ? 

The  gentleman  from  Dakota  said  he  was  in 
favor  of  taking  copies  of  every  paper  of  the  city 
which  publishes  sketches  of  our  proceedings. 
Suppose  the  St.  Anthony  papers  should  hap- 
pen t6  contain  a  sketch  of  our  proceedings. 
Why  not  subscribe  for  them  ?  It  strikes  mo 
that  we  have  the  right  to  do  the  one  as  much 
as  the  other,  and  no  more.  If  you  can  learn 
from  St.  Paul  papers,  you  can  from  the  St. 
Anthony  papers. 

An  attempt  has  been  made  to  arraign  the 
Pioneer.  This  is  not  the  proper  place  to  ar- 
raign any  paper,  Whenever  wc  are  charged 
by  any  paper  with  a  dereliction  of  duty, 
whether  it  be  by  the  Piotmer,  or  Mlnmsotian, 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Wednesday,  July  15. 


or  any  other  paper,  then,  and  not  till  then, 
is  the  time  to  defend  ourselves.  I  want  no 
better  place  to  defend  myself  than  before  that 
tribunal  which  I  recognize  above  all  other 
tribunals,  save  one,  and  that  is  the  tribunal 
of  the  people.  It  does  not  become  us  as 
members  of  the  Convention,  to  arraign  any 
paper  before  this  Convention  —  neither  to 
charge  or  intimate  that  any  paper  has  been 
guilty  of  falsehood,  unless  they  come  indi- 
■vidually  and  personally  upon  us  as  members, 
and  then  it  might  not  be  inappropriate  for  the 
individual  aggrieved  to  make  explanations. 

Another  reason  urged  is,  that  we  may  send 
them  home  to  our  constituents,  and  this  is 
made  a  permanent  reason.  The  mere  fact 
that  such  a  thing  will  gratify  our  constituents 
is  no  reason  why  we  should  send  those  pa- 
pers. If  I  want  to  hu-e  a  liar  I  will  hire  and 
pay  for  him  on  my  own  hook,  and  wUl  not 
ask  Uncle  Sam,  or  tliis  Territory'  to  pay  him. 

Another  reason  urged  is,  that  we  can  see 
the  arguments  on  both  sides,  and  the  posi- 
tions taken  by  individuals  who  represent  both 
sides  of  certain  questions.  We  can  obtain 
such  information  on  our  own  hook,  and  we 
ought  not  to  make  it  a  public  biu-den  simply 
for  the  purpose  of  ascertaining  what  our  po- 
litical enemies  say  against  us. 

Therefore  I  have  made  up  my  mind  firmly 
against  anything  like  ordering  any  number 
of  these  papers  in  St.  Paul,  unless  they  con- 
tain the  oflBcial  record  of  our  proceedings. 
When  that  is  done,  I  am  ready  and  willing  to 
make  a  liberal  appropriation. 

Mr.  WILSON.  I  am  opposed  to  taking 
all  and  any  of  these  papers  in  the  way  pro- 
posed. I  think  the  probabihty  is  that  the 
expenses  of  this  Convention  will  be  borne  by 
the  people  of  this  Territory,  and  therefore  I 
shall  be  a  little  more  careful  in  our  expendi- 
tures than  I  should  be  if  they  were  to  be 
borne  by  the  United  States.  But  m  either 
case  I  do  not  think  we  have  the  right  to  order 
these  papers  at  the  public  expense  for  distri- 
bution, and  clearly  not  to  take  them  for  our 
own  use.  If  we  have,  we  have  equally  the 
right  to  pm-chase  books  for  our  own  use. 

As  to  oiir  pay  being  meagre,  we  knew  that 
before  oui-  election,  and  I  ventured  to  say 
that  there  are  not  more  than  one  or  two  here 
who  did  not  come  here  of  their  own  free  will 
«nd  desire.    We  came  here  not  because  we 


were  urged  by  the  people,  but  because  we 
wanted  to  come.  Many  others  desired  to 
come  in  our  places. 

Let  us  look  to  the  justice  of  this  thing  by 
taking  papers  for  distribution  among  our  con- 
stituents. And  then  to  the  item  of  expense. 
If  I  take  a  dozen  copies  for  distribution  to 
whom  do  they  go  but  to  a  dozen  of  my  par- 
ticular friends?  I,  sir,  have  some  two  thou- 
sand voting  constituents.  Each  one  has  an 
equal  claim  upon  me,  but  only  a  dozen  get 
the  papers  purchased  at  the  expense  of  the 
whole.  More  than  that,  two  thousand  voted 
the  RepubUcan  ticket,  and  one  thousand  did 
not  vote  it,  and  all  are  entitled  to  an  equal 
share  in  the  distribution.  Now  I  say  the 
masses  get  no  benefit  of  the  distribution. 
The  distribution  is  partial,  and  made  for  per- 
sonal and  political  purposes.  It  cannot  be 
otherwise. 

And  what  is  the  item  of  expense  going  to 
be  ?  Let  me  say  here  that  every  item  of  ex- 
pense of  this  Convention  with  interest  ad- 
ded to  it,  will  be  arrayed  before  and  held  up  to 
the  people,  for  the  purpose  of  making  capital 
out  of  it.  True,  that  should  be  no  inducement 
to  act,  but  we  sshould  be  careful  to  act  cau- 
tiously, and  see  that  there  is  not  that  done 
which  can  be  taken  advantage  of.  What 
will  be  the  expenditure  in  this  case  ?  Say 
each  member  gets  twelve  copies.  There  are 
or  will  be  sixty  members.  Twelve  times  sixty 
are  seven  hundred  and  twenty — the  number 
of  copies — ^which  at  five  cents  each  amounts 
to  $36  per  day.  Suppose  we  sit  30  days, — 
and  we  are  more  likely  to  sit  double  that 
time — we  shall  spent  $1080  for  the  session 
for  this  one  item  alone,  for  the  benefit  of  our- 
selves and  our  particular  fiiends.  That  will 
make  an  item  in  the  svma  total  of  the  expen- 
ses of  the  Convention,  and  I  trust  gentlemen 
wUl  not  vote  in  favor  of  it. 

I  shall  send  oif  just  as  many  papers  with- 
out the  appropriation  as  with  it,  and  others 
will  do  the  same — true,  at  oin*  own  expense 
though.  We  came  here,  knowing  that  this 
was  not  money  making  business. 

But  say  some,  we  can,  in  this  manner,  have 
the proceedingsof  this  Convention^laid before 
us  every  morning,  and  can  send  them  to  our 
constituents  for  their  information.  I  say  we 
cannot  have  the  journal  of  our  proceedings 
so  published.     I  have  myself  made  inquiries 


44 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Wednesday,  Jult  15. 


of  authorities  which  know,  and  they  tell  me 
that  it  is  impossible,  here  or  elsewhere  to 
have  the  proceedings  of  to-day  laid  before  us 
to-morrow.  Even  in  the  city  of  Boston  that 
could  not  be  accomplished,  much  less  here. 
Then  all  we  should  get  would  merely  be  a 
newspaper  with  some  items  and  scraps  of 
our  proceedings  in  it. 

As  to  the  Pioneer  and  Democrat,  I  am 
opposed  to  ordering  it  for  a  reason  not  urged 
as  yet  by  any  member.  I  would  oppose  tak- 
ing any  lying  work.  But  can  we  get  this 
Pioneer  and  Democrat  in  the  way  you  propose 
to  ask  for  it?  There  is  a  reason  which 
weighs  with  me  more  than  any  other.  I 
would  not  put  ourselves  in  the  position  of 
being  refused.  But  independent  of  that,  I 
would  not  take  and  circulate  them  at  the 
expense  of  my  constituents.  If  I  circulate 
them,  I  do  so  out  of  my  own  money,  and 
when  that  fails  I  take  no  more  papers. 

Mr.  PERKINS.  One  word  about  this 
bug-bear  of  expenses.  I  have  no  idea  that 
it  is  going  to  cost  us  as  much  by  the  quantity 
as  by  the  single  paper.  No  such  amount  of 
expense  as  has  been  represented,  will  attend 
the  taking  of  these  papers.  Fifteen  cents 
per  week  I  am  told  is  the  price  of  the  dailies, 
and  I  do  not  think  our  constituents  will  cen- 
sure us  at  all.  Mine  are  liberal  enough  to 
have  an  oflBcial  report  circulated  among  them. 
They  need  not  all  be  sent  to  the  same  per- 
sons. To-day  I  would  send  to  some  individ- 
uals and  to-morrow  I  would  send  to  different 
ones,  and  they  vnU  be  circulated  from  hand 
to  hand,  and  nearly  all  will,  in  some  way,  get 
a  correct  idea  of  our  proceedings  here.  That 
is  the  way  such  things  are  usually  done,  and 
%  I  believe  the  people  are  generally  pleased 
with  a  moderate  appropriation  of  that  kind, 
to  circulate  the  proceedings  of  legislative 
bodies  among  them. 

As  to  the  impossibility  of  getting  the  jour- 
nal of  the  preceding  day  laid  upon  the  tabic 
each  morning,  that  is  no  great  bug-bear.  Sup- 
pose it  should  be  a  day  or  tA'O  behind,  it 
would  not  be  material,  but  when  it  came  we 
could  circulate  it  as  the  official  proceedings  of 
this  Convention.  What  ought  to  be  done  can 
be  done. 

Mr.  HUDSON.  I  wish  to  have  it  under- 
stood tlmt  I  am  opposed  to  taking  any  news- 
papers unless  we  pay  for  them  ourselves,  and 


I  think  the  argument  of  the  gentleman  from 
Winona  [Mr.  Wilson]  upon  that  point  per- 
fectly conclusive.  We  have  no  more  right  to 
pay  out  the  people's  money  in  the  purchase 
of  papers  than  we  have  in  the  purchase  of 
books.  The  people  sent  us  here  for  the  pur- 
pose of  making  a  Constitution,  and  we  have 
no  right  to  say  that  ten  or  twelve  of  those 
persons  shall  be  enlightened,  and  that  the 
others  shall  pay  for  it.  Every  man  has  the 
privilege  of  taking  a  paper  for  himself,  and 
that  is  what  should  be  done.  I  am  in  favor 
of  every  man's  taking  a  paper,  and  in  favor 
of  every  man's  paying  for  it  himself. 

Mr.  MANTOR.  I  am  reaUy  glad  that  this 
question  has  been  brought  before  the  Conven- 
tion. What  arguments  have  been  deduced 
in  this  discussion,  save  what  I  have  heard  for 
a  few  minutes  past,  I  do  not  know,  but  I  am 
pleased  that  the  subject  is  brought  before  us. 
I  represent  quite  a  large  constituency  who 
are  a  reading  community,  and  who  like  to 
know  what  the  Convention  is  doing.  In 
order  that  they  may  have  that  information  it 
is  essentially  necessary  that  we  should  pro- 
vide them  with  the  means  of  obtaining  it. 
How  are  they  to  obtain  it  ?  By  my  money, 
the  money  of  an  individual  ? 

That  should  be  so  according  to  other  gen- 
tlemen's arguments.  I  want  my  constituents 
to  have  the  information — the  Lord  bless  my 
constituents,  for  I  love  them  because  they 
sent  me  here.  (Laughter.)  I  wish  the  peo- 
ple were  here  to  hear  gentlemen's  argimient, 
and  I  believe  if  we  wei'c  then  to  have  another 
election  there  would  be  less  of  them  here. 

I  live  thirty  miles  back  from  this  great 
thoroughfare — the  Mississippi — and  I  know 
of  no  other  way  of  letting  my  constituents 
know  that  I  am  here,  than  by  sending  papers 
to  them  every  day.  To  them  it  will  be  a 
gratification  to  know  how  my  vote  stands 
recorded  upon  the  various  questions  which 
come  under  our  consideration.  In  this  view 
of  the  matter  I  hope  the  resolution  will  pre- 
vail. 

To-day  I  have  spent  the  enormous  sum  of 
one  whole  dollar  for  the  purpose  of  purchas- 
ing newspapers  to  send  home  to  fiiy  constit- 
uents, and  whether  this  resolution  prevails  or 
not,  I  shall  continue  to  do  so  from  day  to 
day,  until  the  Convention  adjourns,  and  for 
what  purpose?    Simply  that  the  doings  of 


MINNESOTA  CONTENTION  DEBATES— Wednesday,  Jixr  15. 


45 


this  Convention  may  be  known  to  my  con- 
stituents. I  know  that  when  the  post  offices 
are  crowded  with  docimaents,  the  people  are 
satisfied.  As  I  said  before,  I  represent  a 
secluded  district  which  cannot  get  the  iofor- 
mation  they  desire  as  readily  as  people  do 
who  live  on  the  river.  The  constituents  of 
gentlemen  living  below,  get  a  knowledge  of 
the  proceedings  of  this  Convention  every 
day,  if  not  through  the  press,  yet  from  indi- 
viduals who  are  passing  through.  My  con- 
stituents have  but  one  resort,  and  that  is  the 
press ;  and  I  am  in  favor  of  crowding  all  the 
papers  upon  them  that  I  can  get.  I  think  it 
is  the  duty  of  the  Convention  to  pass  the 
resolution,  and  I  hope  there  is  not  a  gentle- 
man here  who  wiU  vote  against  it. 

I  have  before  me  a  resolution  of  a  similar 
character  which  was  adopted  by  the  Conven- 
tion which  framed  the  Constitution  of  the 
State  of  TTisconsin,  and  it  is  in  these  words : 

•'  Begolved.  That  each  member  of  this  Conven- 
tion be  furnished  with  forty  copies  of  any  paper 
published  in  Madison  during  the  session  of  this 
Convention." 

Let  us  study  economy.  That  is  all  well, 
and  as  the  resolution  is  one  of  confined  lim- 
its, I  shall  support  it.  It  amounts  to  little  out 
of  the  sum  which  has  been  donated  or  appro- 
priated for  the  purpose  of  paying  the  expen- 
ses of  this  Convention.  It  is  for  the  benefit 
of  our  constituents  from  whom  the  money 
comes.  We  do  not  receive  the  benefit  of  the 
resolution.  We  can  get  up  any  morning,  and 
at  our  own  tables,  without  any  expense,  see 
he  brick  bats  which  are  daily  hurled  against 
this  Convention,  but  our  constituents  know 
nothing  about  it.  Let  the  resolution  prevail 
and  let  the  people  have  the  papers. 

Mr.  KING.  I  have  made  an  estimate  of 
this  item  of  expense  provided  we  sit  here 
thirty  days,  and  take  ten  copies  each  of  a 
daily  paper,  and  it  amoimts  to  the  sum  of 
$540.  The  objection  has  been  urged  that  a 
few  privileged  individuals  only  will  get  the 
information.  I  admit  that  fact  and  contend 
that  it  is  ri^t.  Bear  in  mind  the  fact  that  it 
is  only  a  few  prominent  men  in  any  common- 
wealth who  imdergo  the  toils  and  vexations 
of  carrying  on  the  machinery  of  life.  Go 
into  any  neighborhood  and  inquire  into  the 
political  aspect  of  the  times,  and  you  win  find 
only  two  or  three  that  can  teD  you  any  thing 


about  it.  Well,  it  is  through  such  men  that 
we  reach  the  masses  who  have  not  much 
time  to  read,  or  who,  if  they  do  read,  under- 
stand and  comprehend  but  little  of  what  they 
peruse.  Therefore  it  is  right  to  send  these 
papers  to  the  few  of  our  constituents  who 
have  the  leisure  to  read  and  can  comprehend 
readily  what  they  see.  Suppose  I  send  home 
ten  copies  of  a  paper  to  the  most  active  of 
my  constituents,  they  immediately  ^ean  the 
news  and  then  circulate  the  papers  among 
some  of  their  friends,  and  converse  with  oth- 
ers about  their  contents.  In  that  way  the 
papers  go  from  Sunday  morning  to  Satiu:day 
night,  and  they  are  read  until  they  are  worn 
out.  Now,  our  constituents  will  say  we  are 
ne^ectful  of  our  duty  if  we  deny  them  this 
privilege. 

I  am  in  favor  of  the  last  amendment.  I 
have  some  democratic  friends  and  it  is  my 
duty  to  ^ve  them  the  information  they  will  get 
throti^  the  Democratic  press,  and  so  fer  as 
I  see  fit  to  acconunodate  them,  I  accommo- 
date my  friends.  I  do  not  wish  to  make  any 
charges  against  the  press,  but  I  will  state 
that  I  can  well  see  how  the  Pioneer  may 
make  more  Republicans  than  any  other  paper 
published  in  St.  Paul.  I  can  cite  many  cases 
of  converts  it  has  made  to  the  Republican 
faith.  It  acts  as  an  emetic  acts  upon  the 
physical  system, — turns  the  stomach  upside 
down,  and  leaves  the  body  politic  in  a  better 
condition  than  it  fovmd  it. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  I  think  there  has  been 
a  great  deal  of  powder  lost  here,  as  it  is  very 
doubtful,  if  the  resolution  passes,  whether 
the  newspapers  in  this  city  will  trust  the  Con- 
vention to  that  amount.  I  move  the  previous 
question. 

The  previous  question  was  seconded. 

The  question  was  then  taken  on  the  amend- 
ment to  the  amendment,  and  on  a  division 
there  were  yeas  24,  nays  18. 

The  question  next  reciured  on  the  amend- 
ment to  the  substitute  as  amended,  and  being 
put  it  was  decided  in  the  affirmative. — Yeas 
24,  nays  16. 

The  next  question  was  upon  the  adoption 
of  the  substitute  as  amended,  in  place  of  the 
original  resolution,  and  being  put  it  was  de- 
cided in  the  affirmative, — ^yeas  27,  nays  15. 
So  the  resolution  was  finally  passed  in  the 
following  shape : 


46 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— TiaasD ay,  July  16. 


"  Eesolved,  That  each  member  of  this  Conven- 
tion shall  be  entitled  to  ten  copies  daily  of  any- 
paper,  published  in  this  city,  which  he  may  select." 

A  slight  discussion  here  arose,  as  to  whether 
the  resolution  confined  members  to  one  par- 
ticular paper  or  not,  and  the  result  was  that 
the  vote  by  which  the  resolution  passed  was 
reconsidered,  and  then  the  resolution  was  re- 
ferred to  a  select  committee  of  three,  con- 
sisting of  Messrs.  Stannard,  Foster  and 
Cleghorn,  to  report  back  a  resolution  in  a 
proper  shape. 

QUALIFICATION   OP   OFFICERS. 

Mr.  Wm.  foster,  sergeant-at-arms  elect, 
presented  himself  to  the  Convention  and  was 
duly  qualified  by  taking  the  usual  oath  of 
office. 

The  oath  of  ofiice  was  administered  to  Wm. 
H.  Shelly,  who  was  this  morning  elected 
Messenger  to  the  Convention. 

ACCEPTANCE  OF  THE  PROPOSITIONS  OF  CONGRESS. 

Mr.  McKUNE  offered  the  following  resolu- 
tion. 

"  Resolved,  That  all  propositions  contained  in 
section  five  of  an  act  entitled  '  An  Act  to  author- 
ize the  people  of  the  Terrritory  of  Minnesota  to 
form  a  Constitution  and  State  Government  prepa- 
ratory to  their  admission  into  the  Union  on  an 
equal  footiug  with  the  original  States,'  are  hereby 
fully  accepted,  and  the  President  of  the  Conven- 
tion authorized  to  appoint  a  select  committee  to 
prepare  an  ordinance,  irrevocable  without  the 
consent  of  the  United  States,  that  said  State  shall 
never  interfere  with  the  primary  disposal  of  the 
soil  within  the  same  by  the  United  States,  or  with 
any  regulations  Congress  may  find  necessary  to 
have,  securing  the  title  to  said  soil  to  hona  fide 
purchasers  thereof,  and  that  no  tax  shall  be  im- 
posed upon  lands  belonging  to  the  United  States, 
and  that  in  no  case  shall  non-resident  proprietors 
be  taxed  higher  than  resident  proprietors." 

The  resolution  was  laid  over  one  day  under 
the  rules. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH  presented  the  creden- 
tials of  Boyd  Phelps,  which  were  referred  to 
the  committee  on  Credentials. 

The  committee  subsequently  reported  that 
they  had  examined  the  credentials  and  had 
found  them  correct,  and  recommended  that 
Mr.  Phelps  be  admitted  to  a  seat  in  the  Con- 
vention. 

The  report  of  the  committee  was  accepted, 
and  Mr.  Phelps  was  qualified  by  taking  tlie 
usual  oath  of  office. 

On  motion  of  Mr.  SECOMBE  the  creden- 


tials of  Mr.  Phelps,  were  ordered  to  be  en- 
tered at  large  upon  the  journals  of  the  Con- 
vention. 

PRINTING   OF   THE   CONVENTION. 

Mr.  COGSWELL  offered  the  following  res- 
olution : 

^'Resolved  That  the  committee  upon  Public 
Printing  have  full  power  and  authority  to  receive 
proposals  and  contract  with  the  lowest  and  best 
bidder  to  do  all  the  incidental  printing,  and  also  do 
the  printing  of  the  journals  and  debates  of  this 
Convention." 

Mr.  HAYDEN.  Does  not  that  resolution 
lie  over  one  day  under  the  rules  ? 

Mr.  KING.  I  ask  for  the  reading  of  the 
rule. 

The  rule  was  read  as  follows ; 

"  Every  resolution  debated  or  giving  rise  thereto 
lies  over  one  day  without  debate  or  other  action." 

The  resolution  was  laid  over. 

Mr.  MURPHY  (at  five  o'clock  and  five 
minutes  p.  m.,)  moved  to  adjourn. 

The  yeas  and  nays  were  demanded  and 
ordered,  and  the  question  being  taken,  thei*e 
were  yeas  28,  nays  24,  as  follows : 

Yeas — Messrs.  Anderson,  Baldwin,  BoUes,  Cleg- 
horn,  Cederstam,  Coombs,  Davis,  Eschlie,  Gal- 
braith,  Gerrish,  Hall,  Hudson,  Hanson,  Holly, 
King,  Kemp,  Lyle,  Lowe,  McCann,  McKune,  Mur- 
phy, Phelps,  Peckham,  Secombe,  Vaughn,  Winell, 
Watson  and  Wilson. — 28. 

Nays — Messrs.  Balcombe,  Bates,  Billings,  But- 
ler, Colburn,  Coggswell,  Coe,  Duley,  Dickerson, 
Foster,  Folsom,  Hayden,  Harding,  Mantor,  Mes- 
ser,  Morgan,  Mills,  North,  Perkins,  Putnam, 
Robbins,  ilussell  and  Smith. — 24. 

The  committee  accordingly  adjourned  imtil 
nine  o'clock  to-morrow  morning. 


FOURTH  DAY. 

Thursday,  July  16,  1857. 

The  Convention  met  pursuant  to  adjourn- 
ment, at  9  o'clock,  A.  M. 

The  roll  of  the  Convention  was  called,  when 
a  quorum  of  members  answering  to  their 
names. 

The  Journal  of  yesterday  was  read  and 
approved. 

On  motion  of  Mr.  ALDRICH— 

"  Ordered,  That  the  letter  of  the  Rev.  E.  D. 
Neill  be  taken  from  the  table,  read  and  filed  with 
the  Secretory  of  the  Convention." 


MINNESOTA  CONTENTION  DEBATE^-TncRSDAV,  Jcly  16. 


47 


The  communication  was  accordingly  taken 
firom  the  table  and  read  to  the  Convention. 

XEWSPAPERS   FOB   MEMBEBS. 

Mr.  FOSTER,  from  the  Select  Committee 
to  whom  was  referred  the  resolution  in  rela- 
tion-to  famishing  members  with  newspapers, 
reported  the  following  resolution,  with  a 
recommendation  that  it  do  pass,  viz : 

"  Besolvol,  That  not  exceeding  ten  copies  of  the 
daily  newspapers,  or  their  equivalent  in  value  of 
weekly  newspapers,  be  allowed  to  each  member  of 
the  Convention ;  that  each  member  fhmish  a  list 
in  writing  to  the  Assistant  Secretary  of  the  nam- 
ber  of  each  newspaper  he  desires,  and  said  As- 
sistant Secretary  is  hereby  required  to  notify  the 
several  publishers  of  the  number  of  copies  required, 
and  request  that  they  be  delivered  to  the  SergeaAt- 
at-Arms,  of  the  Convention,  to  be  distributed  by 
him  according  to  the  list  famished  to  him  by  the 
Assistant  Secretary." 

The  report  of  the  committee  was  accepted 
and  the  resolution  adopted. 

ACCEPT ASCE  OF  THE  PBOPOSmOXS  OFCOSGBESS. 

Under  the  order  of  business,  the  Conven- 
tion took  up  for  consideration  the  resolution 
oflFered  yesterday  by  Mr.  McKuse. 

.  The  resolution  which  was  reported  to  the 
Convention,  relates  to  accepting  the  proposi- 
tions contained  in  the  fifth  section  of  the 
Enabling  Act  of  Congress. 

Mr.  MORGAN  moved  that  the  resolution 
be  referred  to  the  Standing  Committees  on 
Miscellaneous  provisions. 

Mr.  FOSTER.  I  question  whether  that  is 
the  best  committee  to  which  to  refer  the  reso- 
lution. "We  had  better  look  over  our  com- 
mittees and  see  what  they  are,  and  wliat  their 
duties  are,  otherwise  this  committee  on  Mis- 
cellaneous business  will  have  too  many  matters 
referred  to  them. 

The  Act  of  Congress,  called  the  Enabling 
Act,  requires  us  to  make  provision,  either  by 
a  clause  in  the  Con.stitution,  or  by  an  ordi- 
nance irrevocable,  that  we  will  never  interfere 
with  the  primary  disposal  of  the  soQ  by  the 
United  States ;  that  we  will  not  tax  the  lands 
of  non-residents  higher  than  those  of  residents, 
&c.  It  is  the  opinion  of  some  persons  that  we 
should  comply  with  that  requirement  by  an 
ordinance,  so  that  the  Commissioner  of  the 
Land  Office  might  be  immediately  notified 
thereof,  as  the  per  centage  upon  the  sale  of 
the  public  lands  would  commence  firom  its 


passage.  Others  think  that  the  ordinance 
should  be  passed  by  the  first  State  Legisla- 
ture. It  would  seem  that  any  such  ordi- 
nance passed  by  us,  must  be  incorporated 
into  the  Constitution ;  if  not  so,  why  should 
the  Enabling  Act  say,  "by  a  clause  in  said 
"  Constitution." 

Mr.  MORGAN.  I  am  not  exactiy  able  to 
see  how  a  Convention  assembled  for  the  pur- 
pose of  forming  a  State  Constitution,  can 
pass  an  ordinance.  The  questicaa  comes  up, 
what  is  to  give  validity  to  that  ordinance  ?  Is 
it  to  be  voted  upon  by  the  people  separately 
firom  the  Constitution?  I  am  of  the  im- 
pression that  the  only  mode  in  which  we  can 
meet  the  matter,  is  to  incorporate  such  a 
clause  in  some  manner  in  the  Constitution, 
but  my  mind  is  not  ftiUy  satisfied  upon  the 
point. 

Mr.  FOSTER.  I  would  suggest  that  we 
had  better  let  the  resolution  lie  on  the  table 
imtil  we  can  look  over  the  Standing  Commit- 
tees, and  perhaps  we  can  find  some  other 
committee  to  which  it  can  more  properly  be 
referred. 

Mr.  MORGAN  withdrew  his  motion  of 
reference. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  The  meaning  of  this 
Enabling  Act  is  perhaps  a  littie  ambiguous. 
It  is  as  foUows : 

"  Provided,  The  foregoing  propositions  hereby 
offered  are  on  the  condition  that  the  said  Conven- 
tion which  shall  form  the  Constitution  of  said 
State,  shall  provide  by  a  clause  in  said  Constitu- 
tion, or  an  ordinance,  irrevocable  without  the 
consent  of  the  United  States,  that  said  State  shall 
never  interfere,  kc." 

Now  the  question  arises  whether  it  was  the 
intention  of  Congress  to  pve  the  Convention 
the  choice  between  two  methods,  or  whether 
there  is.  simply  only  one  method  pointed  out 
to  them.  The  question  is  whether  the  word 
"or"  is  conjunctive  or  disjimctive.  It  occurs 
to  me  that  it  would  be  safer,  at  any  rate,  to 
construe  it  as  a  conjunctive  conjunction,  as 
though  it  read,  "  by  a  clause  in  said  Constitu- 
"  tion  which  shall  be  an  ordinance  irrevocable 
"without  the  consent  of  Congress."  It  is 
certainly  susceptil^le  of  that  construction. 
Of  course  it  should  be  referred  to  a  commit- 
tee. It  was  a  point  suggested  by  me  yester- 
day whether  a  distinct  Standing  Conunittee 
should  not  be  appointed,  to  whom  should  be 
referred  these  propositions. 


48 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Thursday,  July  16. 


Mr.  MORGAN.  I  move  that  the  resolu- 
tion be  laid  upon  the  table. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to,  and  the  resolu- 
tion was  laid  on  the  table. 

PRINTING  FOE   THE   CONVENTION. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL  called  up  for  consider- 
ation his  resolution  of  yesterday,  which  was 
as  follows : 

"Resolved,  That  the  coimnittee  on  Public  Print- 
ing have  full  power  and  authority  to  receive 
proposals  and  to  contract  with  the  lowest  and  best 
bidder  to  do  all  the  incidental  printing,  and  also 
to  do  the  printing  of  the  journal  and  debates  of 
this  Convention." 

Mr.  BATES.  I  am  opposed  to  that  resolu- 
tion, because  I  am  opposed  to  giving  our 
printing  to  certain  papers  in  St.  Paul  which 
misrepresent  our  proceedings,  even  though 
they  may  do  it  cheaper  than  others  would. 

Mr,  FOSTER.  In  this  new  country  in  par- 
ticular, and  sometimes  in  the  older  parts  of 
our  country,  this  method  of  letting  legislative 
printing  to  the  lowest  bidder  is  very  much  of 
a  humbug.  No  matter  what  the  rate  of  their 
contract,  the  printers,  in  such  matters,  man- 
age in  the  shape  of  extras,  to  get  more  than 
the  printing  would  cost  if  let  out  at  printer's 
regular  rates.  I  have  seen  this  kind  of  ope- 
ration carried  on  at  legislative  capitols.  I 
recollect  a  case  which  occurred  in  connection 
with  the  Legislature  of  Pennsylvania.  Tha- 
body  got  into  a  difficulty  about  the  printing 
and  let  it  to  the  lowest  bidder.  At  the  end 
of  his  three  years  it  was  generally  agreed 
that  the  printing  had  cost  more  than  under  the 
old  contract.  You  cannot  construct  a  contract 
which  the  printer,  cannot,  so  to  speak,  drive 
a  coach  and  four  through.  It  arises  from  the 
peculiar  nature  of  their  business.  Very  few 
understand  it,  and  though  you  may  restrict 
the  printer  to  so  much  per  thousand  ems,  and 
so  much  per  page  for  press  work,  he  will  as- 
tonish you  with  a  quantity  of  ems  and  an 
amount  of  press- work  that  you  did  not  dream 
of,  and  he  will  prove  his  account,  too,  in  a 
court  of  justice,  if  necessary,  to  be  correct, 
according  to  his  contract.  The  man  who  will 
take  the  contract  for  the  purpose  of  getting 
it,  is  the  very  man  to  resort  to  underhanded 
means  to  get  all  he  waiil^.  I  prefer  employ- 
ing a  printer  at  tlie  usual  rates,  compelling 
liira  to  resort  to  no  trickery  or  arts  in  order 
to  get  a<lci]ua(o  p;iy.     If  we  let  it  at  tho  low- 


est bid,  the  Pioneer  and  Democrat^  or  some 
press  of  that  character,  will  come  in  and  bid 
very  low.  They  have  the  officers  of  the  gov- 
ernment as  their  auditors,  who  are  .not  very 
much  opposed,  to  say  the  least,  to  such  pa- 
pers, and  the  result  of  such  an  arrangement 
would  show  that  we  had  helped  our  enemies, 
discarded  our  friends,  and  saved  nothing  at 
all. 

In  reference  to  our  printing  which  is  imme- 
diately necessary,  I  prefer  that  a  special  con- 
tract should  be  made.  We  shall  get  it  done 
quicker  in  that  way  than  in  any  other.  Let 
the  Assistant  Secretary  get  it  done  where  he 
can  get  it  done  the  quickest,  and  to  the  best 
advantage.  I  think  that  is  the  best  course  to 
pursue  imtil  we  go  into  the  election  of  a  prin- 
ter, which  I  think  should  not  be  done  until 
we  can  have  a  full  conference  of  all  the 
members. 

Mr.  BATES.  I  think  the  difficulty  can 
be'obviated,  and  in  order  to  do  so,  I  move  to 
amend  by  striking  out  all  after  the  word  "Re- 
solved," and  insert — 

"  That  this  Convention  go  into  an  election  for 
Printer  to-morrow  at  12  o'clock,  M." 

Mr.  FOSTER.  I  move  to  lay  the  resolu- 
tion and  amendment  on  the  table,  and  that 
they  be  made  the  special  order  of  the  day  for 
to-morrow  at  2  o'clock. 

The  motion  was  agi'ced  to. 

Mr.  FOSTER.  I  move  that  the  Secretary 
of  the  Convention  be  directed  to  procure  the 
execution  of  such  incidental  printing  as  may 
be  necessary  to  be  done  unmediately,  under 
the  order  of  the  Convention  from  day  to  day. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to. 

ACT    OF   LEGISLATCEE    IN    REFERENCE    TO    THE 

CONVKNTIOX. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  \Vc  passed  an  Order 
yesterday  for  the  printing  of  200  copies  of 
the  act  known  as  the  Enabling  Act  of  Con- 
gress, in  connection  with  the  act  of  the  extra 
session  of  the  Legislature,  relating  to  the 
same  subject  matter.  I  understand  that  it 
has  been  denied  that  any  such  act  of  the 
Legislature  was  passed,  or  that  there  is  any 
such  act  upon  the  records  of  that  Legislature. 
Now,  sir,  it  is  within  my  knowledge  that  sucli 
an  act  was  published  by  the  official  paper  of 
this  Temtory.  I  hold  in  my  hand  the  copy 
of  an  act  which  was  published  in  the  "Min- 
nesota Republican"  of  St.  Anthony  on  the 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Thcbsday,  Jcly  16. 


49 


28th  of  May  last,  copied  from  the  ''Phneer 
<ind  Democrat^'''  the  official  paper  of  this  Ter- 
ritory. It  is  of  considerable  importance  that  j 
we  should  have  an  official  copy  of  that  act,  j 
if  possible,  for  by  virtue  of  the  provisions  of 
that  act,  and  of  that  act  alone,  there  are  quite 
a  number  of  delegates  in  my  opinion,  hold- 
their  seats  in  this  Convention.  As  the  Sec- 
retary has  been  unable  to  comply  with  the 
resolution  of  yesterday  because  he  could  not 
obtain  a  copy  of  that  act,  I  offer  the  follow- 
ing resolution : 

"  Besolted,  That  a  special  committee  of  three  be 
appointed  to  procure  from  the  Secretary  of  this 
Territory  a  cenified  copy  of  the  Act  of  the  late 
extra  session  of  the  Legislative  Assembly,  entitled 
'  An  Act  to  provide  for  the  payment  of  the  ex- 
penses of  the  Convention  to  form  a  Constitution 
for  the  State  of  Minnesota  in  accordance  with  an 
act  of  Congress  approved  March  3d,  1S57,'  for  the 
use  of  this  Convention." 

yii.  COGGSWELL.  Under  our  rules  I 
suppose  that  resolution  lies  over  one  day. 

PRESIDENT.  It  will,  in  aaisequence  of 
the  gentleman's  remarks. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  move  that  the  rules  be 
suspended  in  order  that  the  resolution  may 
be  considered  at  this  time. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  If  that  motion  is 
debatable,  I  desire  to  say,  that  as  one  of  the 
members  of  this  Convention,  I  am  decidedly 
in  favor  of  the  resolution  laying  over  vmtil 
to-morrow.  That  resolution  refers  to  a  cer- 
tain act  of  our  Legislature.  What  that  act 
is  I  shall  not  pretend  to  say  now,  for  the 
reason  that  perhaps  I  do  not  understand  it 
thoroughly  in  all  its  bearings;  but  if  my 
recollection  serves  me  right,  there  are  certain 
provisions  in  that  act,  which  in  my  judgment 
the  Territorial  Legislature  had  no  right  to 
pass.  There  is,  or  there  probably  will  be,  a 
question  raised  before  the  Constitution  is  rati- 
ified  by  the  people,  and  we  become  a  State 
in  the  Union,  in  regard  to  the  constitutionali- 
ty of  certain  of  its  provisions.  A  question 
also  win  be  raised  at  a  certain  time  and  in  a 
certain  place,  in  regard  to  the  effect  of  what- 
ever steps  may  be  taken  by  this  Convention 
in  reference  to  it,  and  I  desire  that  every 
member  should  thoroughly  xmderstand  the 
effect  that  each  step  taken  by  this  Convention 
may  have  upon  the  future  prosperity  of  Min- 
nesota. For  that  purpose  I  desire  that  the 
resolution  shall  lay  over  imtil  to-morrow. 
7 


Mr.  COLBURN.  I  am  unable  to  see  any' 
force  in  the  objection  raised  by  the  gentleman 
who  has  just  taken  his  seat.  If  there  is  an 
act  such  as  has  been  referred  to,  we  ought  to 
know  what  it  is,  and  understand  it  in  order 
to  judge  of  its  constitutionality,  and  to  know 
what  action  should  be  taken  by  the  Conven- 
tion in  regard  to  it.  We  only  propose  to 
make  a  call  for  it,  and  we  can  do  nothing 
about  it  until  we  know  what  it  is. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  We  have  abeady  passed 
an  order  for  printing  200  copies  of  that  act 
in  connection  with  200  copies  of  the  Enabling 
Act.  Here  we  are,  and  have  not  the  means  of 
reading  that  act  by  virtue  of  which  we  are 
constituted.  We  should  get  at  it  as  soon  as 
possible. 

The  question  was  then  taken  on  the  motion 
to  suspend  the  rules,  and  there  were  yeas  40 
and  nays  9.  So  the  rules  were  suspended, 
(two-thirds  voting  in  favor  thereof). 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  now  move  that  the 
resolution  be  adopted. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  By  the  leave  of  fee  Con- 
vention I  will  read  what  purports  to  be  a' 
copy  of  the  act  which  the  resolution  calls  for. 

Mr.  S.  here  read  the  act  and  then  proceeded 
as  follows :  This  was  taken  from  the  "  J/?ft- 
nesotu  Sepublkan"  published  at  St.  Anthony, 
on  the  28th  day  of  last  May,  and  it  was  cop- 
ied from  the  '■'■pioneer  and  Democrat,^''  the 
official  paper  of  the  Territory,  of  either  the 
same  morning,  or  a  morning  or  two  previous. 

Mr.  FOSTER.  If  that  number  of  the  Pi- 
oneer and  Democrat  can  be  found,  it  will  be, 
by  law,  sufficient  evidence,  of  itself,  of  the 
passage  of  the  Act. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  have  afready  suggested 
the  difficulty.  I  am  informed  that  a  member 
of  the  Convention  who  went  to  consult  the 
records  of  the  Territory,  was  informed  that 
no  such  Act  as  that  was  on  file.  Another 
gentleman  who  went  to  consult  the  file  of  the 
Pioneer  and  Democrat,  was  informed  that  no 
such  Act  had  been  published.  My  object  is 
to  take  the  necessary  steps  now  to  ascertain 
whether  any  such  law  has  been  passed,  and  if 
so,  whether  it  is  in  existence,  and  if  not,  wheth- 
er a  copy  oH  the  official  paper  containing  it 
can  be  found. 

Whatever  views  any  gentleman  may  enter- 
tain of  the  legality  or  constitutionality  of  the 
law,  or  any  part  of  it,  it  vrill  be  observed  that 


60 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Thubsdat,  July  1G. 


it  purports  to  be  an  Act  relating  very  mate- 
rially to  this  Convention  and  its  functions,  and 
it  is  very  important  that  wc  should  have  it 
before  us  in  an  oflBcial  form,  that  we  may 
guide  ourselves  by  its  provisions  if  they  are 
binding.  It  seems  to  me  that  the  first  and 
the  proper  step  to  be  taken  is  the  one  indi- 
cated by  my  resolution.  If  we  get  a  certified 
copy  from  the  Secretary  of  the  Territory,  it 
is,  by  law,  made  evidence  of  the  existence  of 
such  an  act,  and  of  its  provisions.  If  we  do 
not  get  it,  then  we  will  have  to  take  tlie  next 
best  evidence  we  can  get. 

Mr.  HAYDEN.  I  was  a  member  of  the 
last  Legislature,  and  my  recollection  is  that 
such  an  Act  was  passed,  and  signed,  and  no- 
tice of  its  signature  returned. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  I  had  the  honor  to  be 
upon  the  committee  to  which  that  act  was 
referred.  At  the  request  of  the  chairman  of 
the  committee,  I  drew  up  the  bill,  and  the  bill 
which  has  been  read  is,  verbatim,  the  biQ 
which  passed  the  House  of  Representatives, 
with  the  exception  of  the  two  first  sections. 
They  were  not  in  the  bill. 

The  PRESIDENT.  As  the  chairman  was 
a  member  of  the  Council,  he  would  state  that 
the  two  sections  referred  to  by  the  gentleman 
who  has  just  taken  his  seat,  were  introduced 
into  the  Council  by  the  chairman  of  the  com- 
mittee to  which  the  bill,  which  passed  the 
House,  was  referred.  He  remembers  being 
in  the  chair  at  the  time  the  report  was  made 
by  the  committee,  and  adopted.  It  is  the 
distinct  recollection  of  the  chair  that  the  bill, 
«s  it  has  been  read,  passed  the  Council,  was 
sent  back  to  the  House,  and  that  the  House 
<x)ncurred  in  the  amendment  made  by  the 
Council. 

It  is  in  the  di.stinct  recollection  of  the  chair 
also,  that  the  Enrolling  and  Engrossing  Com- 
mittees made  their  several  reports,  and  that 
the  Enrolling  Committee  reported  it  back  as 
having  been  signed  by  the  Governor. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  That  is  probably  tlie 
manner  in  which  the  two  first  sections  got 
into  the  bill.  The  business  of  tliat  session 
was  done  generally  upon  the  rail-road  sys- 
tem, (laughter)  and  it  is  not  surprising  that 
I  should  not  be  informed  of  those  facts. 

The  PRESIDENT.  The  chair  remembers 
distinctly  the  individual  who  oflfcred  the 
amendments. 


Mr.  COGGSWELL.  I  am  exceedingly 
sorry  that  the  Convention  has  seen  fit  to  call 
up  this  question  at  this  stage  of  our  proceed- 
ings, and  I  am  sorry  that  it  is  not  now  per- 
mitted to  lay  over  until  to-morrow.  The 
object  of  the  resolution  is  to  obtain  a  copy  of 
a  certain  act  passed  by  our  Territorial 
Legislature  at  its  last  session.  That  act  has 
been  read,  and,  as  a  matter  of  course,  I  have 
a  right  to  refer  to  its  provisions.  If  what 
has  been  read  is  a  copy  of  the  act  for  which 
the  resolution  calls,  I  want  nothing  to  do  with 
the  act.  As  a  member  of  this  Convention  I 
think  I  can  discharge  my  duties  without 
knowing  anything  further  in  regard  to  it. — 
This  Convention  lias  assembled  here  not 
under  and  by  virtue  of  the  provisions  of  that 
act,  but  under  and  by  virtue  of  the  provisions 
of  an  act  of  Congress.  An  act  emanating 
from  a  power  we  are  bovmd  to  regard  and 
respect — an  authority  which  we  are  bound  to 
consider  as  the  highest,  provided  that  its  acts 
are  within  the  scope  of  the  federal  Constitu- 
tion. So  far  as  the  act  of  Congress  is  con- 
cerned, I  apprehend  that  there  is  no  difference 
of  opinion  between  us.  Congress  had  the 
the  right  to  pass  it.  In  my  judgment  that 
act  is  all  that  is  necessary  for  us  to  have  in 
order  faithfully  to  discharge  our  duties  as 
members  of  this  Convention.  It,  in  the  first 
place,  provides  that  the  inhabitants  residing 
wilhin  certain  limits,  shall  elect  certain  indi- 
viduals whose  duty  it  shall  be  to  assemble  at 
the  Capitol  of  the  Territory  at  a  pai'ticular 
tune.  My  impression  is,  that  that  question, 
being  settled  by  Congress,  cannot  be  inter- 
fered with  in  the  least  by  our  Territorial 
Legislature,  and  that  if  our  Legislature  im- 
dertakes  to  repeat  the  same  thing  their  act 
has  no  effect  whatever.  The  rcaffirmance  of 
the  provisions  contained  in  the  Enabling  Act 
amounts  to  nothing.  A  mere  legislative  con- 
struction of  that  act  is  not,  in  my  judgment 
binding  upon  us ;  is  not  to  be  respected  by 
us  ;  neither  is  it  binding  upon  Congress,  nor 
will  it  be  respected  by  Congress.  The  Organic 
Act,  organizing  the  Territorial  government 
of  Minnesota,  conferred  upon  the  Legislature 
power  to  perform  certain  duties,  and  pass 
certain  laws,  and  make  certain  rules  and  reg- 
ulations, and  as  long  as  they  confine  them- 
selves witliin  the  scope  of  that  power  their 
acts  arc  legal  and  binding.    But  the  moment 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Thtbsd ay,  Jily  16. 


51 


they  depart  from  it,  that  moment  their  acts 
and  proceedings  are  entirely  null  and  void. 
The  power  granted  by  that  Organic  Act,  is 
substantially  in  these  words — 

"  The  Legislative  power  of  the  Territory  shall 
extend  to  rightful  acts  of  legislation,  consistent 
with  the  Constitution  of  the  United  States  and  the 
provisions  of  this  act ;  and  no  law  shall  be  passed 
interfering  with  the  primarr  disposal  of  the  soil, 
Ac." 

Now  I  am  not  going  to  discuss  the  question 
raised  in  the  first  section  of  the  le^slative 
act,  which  is  in  regard  to  the  payment  of  the 
members  of  this  Convention.     Nor  do  I  pro- 
pose to  discuss  the  right  of  the  legislature 
to  make  an  appropriation  for  that  purpose. 
We  all  know  what  the  precedents  have  here- 
tofore   been.     We    aU    know    that   "Uncle 
"Sam  "  as  a  general  thing,  has  footed  all  these 
bills,    and  it  is  my  judgment    his  duty  to 
foot  ovu"  biUs  upon  this  occasion.     But  there 
are  certain  other  provisions  contained  in  that 
bill,  which,  in  my  judgment  amount  to  noth- 
ing.   For  instance  that  provision  which  pro- 
vides for  the  election  of  two  members  for 
each  councilman  who  has  to  be  elected  to  the 
Territorial  Legislature.     It  is  but  a  legislative 
attempt  to  construe  an  act  of  Congress.     A 
right  never  delegated  to  the  Legislature,  and 
for  that  reason  entirely  [null  and  void.     The 
Enabling  Act  provides  that  "on  the  first  Mon- 
"  day  of  June  next  the  legal  voters  in  each 
"  representative  district  then  existing  within 
"the  limits  of  the'proposed  State,  are  hereby 
"  authorized  to  elect  two  delegates  for  each 
"  representative  to  which  said  district  may  be 
*'  entitled  according  to  the  apportionment  for 
"representatives  to  the  Territorial    Legisla- 
"ture"    &c.     Now  the  only  tribimals  which 
can  construe  that  act,  are  Congress  and  the 
Courts.     The  act  of  the  Legislature  making 
such  construction  is  entirely  nugatory.     If 
the  Legislature  intended  the  very  same  thing 
which  Congress  intended,  then  all  I  want  is 
the  Enabling  Act.     If  they  intended  a  differ- 
ent thing  I  do  not  want  their  act,  for  the 
reason  that  I  believe  that  it  does  not  amoimt 
to  anything. 

Again,  the  sixth  section  of  the  Territorial 
act  provides  that^the  qualification  of  delegates 
to  the  Constitution^  Convention  shall  be  the 
same  as  for  members  of  the  House  of  Repre- 
sentatives   of    the    Territorial   Legislature. 


That  seems  to  me  but  a  reiteration  of  the 
lan<mage  of  the  Enabling  Act,  and  if  it  is,  let 
us  take  the  Enabling  Act  itself,  and  not  a 
substitute.  But  if  the  Territorial  act  conflicts 
with  the  Enabling  Act,  so  &r  it  is  entirely 
null  and  void. 

I  am  aware  that  a  great  many  individuals 
think  that  simply  because  an  act  has  been 
passed  by  the  Legislature,  or  by  Congress, 
that  it  is  binding  and  Constitutional — in  other 
words  that  it  is  law.  But  I  apprehend  that 
the  lawyers  of  this  Convention  know  to  the 
contrary.  It  seems  to  me  that  we  want  no  ' 
other  light  for  our  guidance  than  that  ema- 
nating from  the  Enabling  Act,  the  Constitu- 
tion of  the  United  States,  and  the  laws  of  the 
Territory  which  are  made  a  part  of  the 
Enabling  Act  itself. 

For  these  reasons  I  shall,  at  a  proper  time, 
move  tliat  the  whole  subject  be  postponed  un- 
til to-morrow. 

Mr.  PERKINS.     It  seems  to  me  that  this 
matter  might  easily  be  disposed  of.     My  friend 
who  has  just  taken  his  seat  misapprehended 
the  purport  of  the  resolution.     It  does  not  pro- 
pose to  take  any  action  upon  that  act  to-day, 
but  simply  calls  for  a  certified  copy  of  it,  so 
that  the  members  of  the  Convention  can  de- 
termine for  themselves  whether  it  has  any 
applicability  or  validity.     The  gentleman  as- 
sumes that  because  at  the  time  it  was  passed, 
there  was  an  Enabling  Act  existing,  therefore 
it  must  be  entirely  invalid.    That  does  not 
follow  as  a  matter  of  course.     There  may  be 
an  Enabling  Act,  and  at  the  same  time  a  legis- 
lative act  assisting  in  carrying  out  the  provis- 
ions of  the  former.     Whether  it  is  such  an 
act,  remains  to  be  seen.     But  what  propriety 
is  there  in  preventing  the  Enabling  Act  firom 
being  brought  before  the  Convention  ?     When 
it  is  brought  before  them,  I  have  no  doubt  the 
Convention  will  deal  with  it  properly.     It  may 
be  a  valid  act.     I  do  not  say  it  is.     When  it  is 
properly  before  the  Convention  I  shall  proba- 
bly have  something  to  say  in  regard  to  the 
validity  of  the  thing  itself,  and  decide  for  my- 
self whether  it  is  best  for  the  Convention  to 
pay  attention  to  it,  and  whether  it  is  best  to 
proceed  exclusively  under  the  Enabling  Act 
of  Congress.    The  Enabling  Act  may  be  in- 
sufficient in  itself  for  the  purposes  of  the  Con- 
vention in  all  its  details ;  the   paying  of  it» 
expenses,  &c. 


52 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Thursday,  July  16. 


Now  the  act  of  last  winter  sfcems  to  pur- 
port such  an  object — an  effort  to  provide  in 
detail  for  holding  the  ^Convention  ;  paying  its 
expenses,  &c. ;  and  it  may  be  valid  and  proper. 
I  do  not  say  it  is.  I  doubt  whether  it  is  so,  but 
it  is  improper  to  assume  that  it  is  invalid,  and 
to  prevent  gentlemen  of  the  Convention  from 
having  an  opportunity  to  examine  it. 

Mr.  HAYDEN.  I  am  opposed  to  the  pas- 
sage of  the  resolution  at  present.  There  is 
some  doubt  as  to  the  legality  of  that  act. 
There  were  doubts  in  regard  to  it  at  the  time 
■  of  its  passage.  It  certainly  can  do  no  harm  to 
let  the  matter  remain  in  its  present  shape  for 
the  time  being.  If  it  is  a  law,  it  will  benefit 
us  the  same  in  the  end,  whether  we  get  it  now 
or  hereafter.  If  it  is  not  a  law,  it  will  be  of 
no  advantage  to  us  to  request  a  copy  of  it  at 
the  present  time. 

Mr.  FOSTER.  I  wish  to  make  a  remark 
or  two  in  reply  to  what  has  been  stated  in 
regard  to  the  effect  of  that  law.  So  far  as  it 
repeats  the  act  of  Congress,  it  is  mere  sur- 
plusage, and  has  no  effect  whatever.  So  far 
as  it  construes  a  doubtful  point  in  that  act,  it 
might  perhaps]^be  held  to  have  effect ;  for  in- 
stance, as  to  the  word  "  representative"  being 
taken  in  its  general  sense,  including  the  coun- 
cillors and  the  members  of  the  House  as  the 
representatives  from  the  different  districts  of 
the  Territory.  So  far  as  it  construes  the  act 
of  Congress  and  decides  that  under  the  term 
"representatives"  it  meant  the  election  of 
delegates  at  large  in  the  place  of  councillors, 
I  think  it  fair  to  take  it  as  a  decision  of  the 
people,  whose  agents  the  Legislature  were, 
upon  that  question.  So  also  in  relation  to  the 
pay  of  the  expenses  of  the  Convention  until 
Congress  should  have  an  opportunity  to  pay 
them.  In  that  view  of  the  subject  it  is  im- 
portant that  we  should  know  whether  the  act 
passed  or  not,  and  we  should  have  it  in  an 
official  form.  But  if  this  committee  is  ap- 
pointed and  they  cannot  find  the  act  in  the 
Secretary's  oflSce,  they  may  possibly  find  it 
published  in  the  official  newspapers ;  and  that 
is  notice  to  everybody  of  the  existence  of  the 
law.  Still  I  prefer  to  have  the  matter  lie 
over  for  the  present, 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  Some  gentlemen  seem  to 
be  afraid  that  some  law  has  been  passed, 
which  if  legal,  will  injure  us.  I  hold  in  my 
hand  a  copy  of  the  Pioneer  and  Democrat  of 


the  date  of  May  27th,  1857,  the  official  paper 
of  the  Territory,  which  contains  a  list  of  the 
titles  of  the  Acts  passed  at  the  extra  sesion  of 
the  Legislature.  Among  them  is  a  bill  of  this 
title : 

"An  act  to  provide  for  the  payment  of  the  ex- 
penses of  the  Convention  to  form  a  Constitution 
for  the  State  of  Minnesota,  in  accordance  with  the 
act  of  Congress,  approved  March  3d,  1857." 

I  consider  that  sufficient  notice  that  such  an 
Act  was  passed,  and  what  has  been  read  here 
pm-ports  to  be  a  copy  of  that  Act  Still  we 
have  not  official  information  that  it  is  a  copy 
of  the  Act.  We  do  know  that  such  an  Act 
has  been  passed,  and  it  is  of  vital  importance 
that  we  should  know,  and  know  soon,  what 
the  provisions  of  that  Act  are,  and  whether  it 
is  binding  upon  us  in  any  respect  I  do  not 
see  how  any  damage  can  be  done  to  the  Con- 
vention or  to  any  member. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  Suppose  we  do  get  it^ 
what  are  we  going  to  do  ?  So  far  as  that  pay- 
ment clause  is  conceri^ed,  I  rather  it  were 
buried  in  the  deep  sands  of  the  sea.  I  know 
the  United  States  will  pay  the  expenses  of 
this  Convention.  If  they  will  not,  we  can 
pay  them  ourselves.  If  the  Act  is  in  exist- 
ence anywhere,  it  is  published,  and  if  it  is  pub- 
lished it  is  an  Act ;  and  what  good  it  is  going 
to  do  us  to  bother  ourselves  about  it  I  cannot 
see.  I  care  very  little  whether  the  resolution 
is  passed  or  not.  It  is  law  or  it  is  not,  and 
the  courts  can  decide  that  question  when  it 
is  brought  before  them.  Every  member  of 
the  Convention  has  the  right  to  go  and  request 
a  copy  of  it  from  the  Secretary.  Under  at 
former  Secretary  I  know  that  a  mere  applica- 
tion by  letter,  for  an  Act,  was  sufficient  to 
procure  a  copy  from  him. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  I  move  that  the  reso- 
lution lie  upon  the  table. 

The  question  was  put  and  the  motion  was 
agreed  to.  So  the  resolution  was  laid  on 
the  table. 

BEPOET   OF   COMMITTEE   ON  CBEDENTIALS. 

Mr.  MORGAN  from  the  special  committee 
to  whom  was  referred  the  petition  of  C.  B. 
Sheldon  to  be  admitted  to  a  seat  in  the  Con- 
vention, by  permission,  made  the  following 
report : 

"  That  since  the  recommittal  of  the  subject  to 
them  they  have  given  a  written  notice  to  R.  P. 
Ri;8.SELL,  the  person  to  whom  the  certificate  of 
election  was  given  for  the  seat,  that  the  committee 


MINNESOTA  CONTENTION  DEBATES— Fbidat,  July  17. 


53 


would  meet  on  Wednesday,  the  15th  instant  at  3 
o'clock,  P.  M.,  at  the  Capitol  in  St.  Paul,  for  the 
purpose  of  hearing  evidence  which  might  be  of- 
fered upon  the  subject,  and  requesting  him  to  be 
present  and  contest  the  claim  of  Mr.  Sheldox  to 
that  seat,  if  he  saw  fit  so  to  do ;  that  the  commit- 
tee was  in  readiness  at  the  hour  appointed,  but  Mr. 
KrssKLL  did  not  appear.  Subsequently  your  com. 
mittee  desired  Dr.  Murpht  to  call  upon  Mr. 
RcssKLL  to  ascertain  if  he  had  received  the  written 
notice  from  the  committee.  Dr.  Mcepht  has  this 
morning  informed  the  committee  that  he  had  seen 
Mr.  RcssELL,  and  that  Mr.  Russell  informed  him 
that  he  received  the  notice  from  the  conmiittee, 
that  he  had  no  cause  for  appearing  before  the  com- 
mittee as  he  had  never  taken  the  certificate  of 
election  and  never  intended  to ;  that  he  had  before 
informed  Mr.  Aldeich,  a  member  of  the  Conven- 
tion to  that  effect.  All  which  is  respectfully  sub- 
mitted." 

The  report  of  the  committee  was  accepted 
and  adopted. 

Thereupon  the  following  resolution  reported 
from  the  same  committee  was  taken  up  and 
adopted^  viz : 

"  Eegolved,  That  Chas.  B.  Shkldox  is  entitled  to 
a  seat  in  the  Constitutional  Convention  from  the 
11th  Council  District  and  as  such  should  be  ad- 
mitted upon  proper  application  being  made." 

Then,  on  motion  of  Mr.  MORGAN,  Mr. 
Sheldox  appeared  at  the  bar  of  the  Conven- 
tion, was  by  the  President  sworn  in,  and 
took  his  seat  as  a  member  of  the  Convention. 

On  motion  of  Mr.  HAYDEN,  (at  12  o'clock 
and  30  minutes)  the  Convention  took  a  re- 
cess mitil  3  o'  clock,  p.  m. 

AFTERNOON  SESSIONS. 

The  Convention  was  caUed  to  order  at  3 
o'clock,  and  on  motion  of  Mr.  NORTH,  took 
a  recess  until  5  o'clock,  p.  ii. 

The  Convention  was  again  called  to  order  at 
5  o'clock,  and  thereupon  immediately  ad- 
journed until  to-morrow  at  9  o'clock,  a.  m. 


HFTH  DAY. 

Fbidat,  July  17, 1857. 

The  Convention  met  at  9  o'clock,  a,  m. 

Prayer  by  the  Chaplain,  Rev.  E.  D.  Neill. 

The  roll  was  called,  and  a  quorum  being 
being  present,  the  Journal  of  yesterday  was 
read  and  approved. 

PAPEBS   FOB  MEltBEBS. 

The  PRESIDENT.  The  chair  takes  this 
opportunity  to  notify  the  Convention  that  the 


Secretary  informs  him  that  the  Pioneer  and 
Democrat  refuses  to  furnish  papers  to  any 
member  of  this  Convention  imless  he  becomes 
individually  responsible  for  the  payment. 

Mr.  FOSTER.  U  they  refuse,  that  ends 
the  matter,  and  we  are  required  to  take  no 
further  notice  of  it. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL  offered  the  following 
resolution : 

"  Whereas,  It  hath  been  represnted  that  in  some 
of  the  representative  districts  of  this  Territory 
certain  persons  who  were  and  still  are  federal  oflS- 
cers,  were  voted  for  as  members  of  this  Conven- 
tion and  have  received  certificates  of  election,  and 
whereas  strong  doubts  are  entertained  as  to  the 
eligibility  of  such  oflBcers,  and  the  right  of  such 
members  to  a  seat  in  this  body :  therefore — 

"  JResolved,  That  a  committee  of  three  be  ap- 
pointed for  the  purpose  of  ascertaining, 

1st.  Whether  any  persons  were  voted  for  as 
members  of  this  Convention  who  held  a  commis- 
sion or  appointment  under  the  United  States, 
(Postmasters  excepted,)  and  if  so  in  what  districts, 
and  also  whether  they  received  a  majority  of  the 
votes  cast,  and  have  received  their  certificates  of 
election. 

3d.  Whether  any  person  who  holds  a  commis- 
sion or  appointment  under  the  United  States, 
(Postmasters  excepted)  is  elegible  to  a  seat  in  this 
Convention." 

Mr.  C.  said : — I  wish  simply  to  say  that  in 
my  judgment  the  time  has  arrived  when  we 
should  take  steps  to  ascertain  whether  certain 
individuals  are  entitled  to  seats  in  this  Con-" 
vention.  We  have  already  taken  the  extra- 
ordinary pains  to  have  our  certificates  entered 
at  large  upon  the  journals — a  very  unusual 
thing — and  if  there  is  another  tribunal  which 
can  investigate  our  acts,  and  the  fact  as  to 
whether  we  have  been  legally  and  properly 
elected  as  members  of  this  Convention,  it 
seems  to  me  that  they  should  have  all  the  evi- 
dence that  can  possibly  assist  them  in  coming 
to  a  correct  conclusion  in  regard  to  the  right 
and  authority  of  this  body.  I  do  not  desire 
any  definite  action  upon  the  resolution  to-day, 
but  offer  it  that  members  may  take  the  mat- 
ter into  consideration. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  It  stiikes  me  that  it 
is  not  proper  to  enter  into  any  inquiry  of  this, 
kind,  until  the  question  is  properly  raised. 
Every  member  sitting  in  this  body  now,  is 
here  by  virtue  of  law.  Every  member  here 
according  to  the  precedents  of  parliamentary 
bodies  in  the  United  States,  is  a  member  de 
facto,  and  until  the  question  as  to  his  right  is 


54 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Fkiday,  July  1^ 


raised,  we  cannot  enter  into  an  inquiry  in 
regard  to  it,  and  I  give  my  opinion  now  that 
if  we  should  decide  that  any  member  of  our 
body  having  a  certificate  has  no  right  here, 
we  have  no  means  of  ejecting  him  but  by 
main  force,  and  whoever  should  undertake  to 
eject  him  would  be  liable  for  an  assault  and 
battery.  Any  lawyer  will  tell  you  that  the 
man  who  comes  with  his  certificate — the  title 
deed  to  a  seat — is  prima  facie  entitled  to  it, 
and  should  this  Convention  upon  investigation 
even,  without  the  question  being  regularly 
raised,  oust  h"m  from  his  place,  they  can  only 
do  it  by  main  force,  Now  there  is  no  one 
contending  for  the  seat  of  any  member  here. 
If  there  is  any  contest,  let  it  be  decided  by 
law  and  precedent.  One  thing  we  are  cer- 
tain of:  Every  man  that  sits  in  this  body,  sits 
here  as  a  legal  member,  under  the  broad  seal 
of  his  district,  and  until  reasons  are  put  upon 
the  record  for  his  removal,  he  cannot  be  re- 
moved except  by  main  force.  We  are  organ- 
ized legally,  fairly  and  justly,  and  we  have 
the  right  to  sit  here,  against  the  world. 

The  hint  has  been  thrown  out  that  the 
government  will  give  us  no  pay.  We  can 
pay  ourselves.  We  can  make  a  Constitution 
and  send  it  to  our  constituents.  I  think  the 
resolution  is  premature,  and  therefore  I  hope 
it  will  not  be  passed.  But  it  is  Avell  to  think 
of  the  subject,  and  the  gentleman  has  done 
well  in  calling  our  attention  to  it.  It  will 
enlighten  members'  minds,  and  lead  them  to 
ask  themselves — "  Why  hold  we  seats  here  ? 
"  have  we  rights  here  ?  Are  we  members  of 
"the  Convention  under  protection  of  law?" 
We  are,  and  that  is  the  opinion  of  every 
member  here. 

Mr.  M'CLURE.  This  resolution,  as  I 
understand,  lies  over  imtil  to-morrow,  under 
the  rules,  yet  I  think  it  may  be  well,  for 
members  to  express  their  opinion  upon  it.  I 
am  not  in  favor  of  adopting  the  resolution  as 
it  stands,  but  I  should  be  in  favor  of  it  were 
it  modified  so  as  to  apply  only  to  members 
who  have  presented  their  credentials.  We 
might  properly  ascertain  whether  we  have  any 
of  these  government  officers  in  their  scats 
here,  and  that  object  could  be  fMly  attained 
by  the  report  of  a  Committee  appointed  to 
investigate  the  matter. 

In  reference  to  entering  the  credentials  of 
members  upon  the  journals,  I  shall  at  the 


proper  time  make  a  motion  to  reconsider  the 
vote  by  which  it  was  so  ordered.  I  am 
entirely  opposed  to  such  a  course.  It  is 
unprecedented  and  ought  never  to  Jiave  been 
adopted.  There  is  no  tribunal  other  than  the 
Convention  itself  to  decide  the  legality  of  the 
election  of  the  members  of  this  Convention. 
The  body  itself  decides  it  upon  the  evidence 
produced  before  it.  From  their  decision  there 
is  no  appeal,  unless  it  may  be  to  the  people, 
and  they  cannot  reverse  the  decision,  but 
only  decide  whether  we  have  done  right. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  move  that  the  resolu- 
tion and  the  subject  matter  thereof  be  referred 
to  the  committee  on  Elections  and  Creden- 
tials, when  appointed. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  I  am  exceedingly 
sorry  that  I  am  compelled  to  disagree  with 
my  friend  and  old  law  partner  [Mr.  M'Clure.] 
who  has  just  taken  his  seat.  I  have  a  high 
regard  for  his  wisdom,  honesty  and  knowl- 
edge, but  I  cannot  accede  to  his  views  in 
reference  to  this  matter.  He  intimates  that 
there  is  no  higher  tribunal  than  this  Conven- 
tion which  can  review  our  proceedings.  I 
disagree  with  him  entirely.  We  are  here  by 
virtue  of  an  act  of  Congress,  and  we  can 
only  come  here  in  a  proper,  legal  and  legiti- 
mate shape.  If  we  come  here  other  than  by 
virtue  of  the  provisions  of  the  Enabling  Act, 
our  proceedings  are  absolutely  null  and  void. 
The  body  which  confers  upon  us  the  power 
to  come,  can  inquire  whether  we  are  entitled 
to  our  seats  as  members  of  this  Convention, 
and,  as  such,  have  power  to  frame  a  Constitu- 
tion or.  not.  Suppose  A,  B,  and  C,  and  a 
hundred  others,  should  claim  that  they  were 
a  Convention  under  and  by  virtue  of  the 
Enabling  Act,  but  in  fact  there  had  never 
been  an  election  held  in  any  of  the  precincts 
of  the  Territory  for  the  purpose  of  sending 
them  here,  do  you  suppose  that  simply 
because  tliey  said  by  their  journal  that  they 
were  members  of  this  Convention, — nothing 
appearing  on  their  journal  showing  that  they 
were, — those  facts  could  not  be  inquired  into 
by  Congress  ?  I  apprehend  not.  I  appre- 
hend that  we  have  only  to  look  to  the  pro- 
ceedings which  the  House  of  Representatives 
of  the  United  States  took  in  regard  to  the 
action  of  a  certain  Convention,  and  of  a  cer- 
tain Lcpslature,  also,  held  in  tlie  Territory  of 
Kansas,  to  be  satisfied  of  the  truth  of  my 


MLVNESUTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Fbiday,  July  17. 


position.  I  apprehend  too,  there  are  other 
instances  in  which  Congress  has  investigated 
the  regiJ:irity  and  legahty  of  proceedings  of 
Conventions  of  this  character.  If  so,  it  is 
proper  for  us  to  look  to  this  matter. 

One  word  in  reply  to  the  gentleman  from 
Scott  County  [Mr.  Galbbaith].  He  thinks 
we  have  nothing  to  do  with  this  matter  at 
the  present  time,  and  that  we  cannot  have 
until  the  question  has  been  raised  in  the 
usual  manner,  by  one  person  claiming  the 
seat  of  another  who  claims  to  be  a  member. 
I  do  not  understand  it  in  that  light.  I  under- 
stand that  any  member  has  the  right  to  raise 
the  question.  The  idea  that  no  man  but  the 
one  who  claims  the  seat  of  another  can  raise 
the  question,  is  not  correct.  I  do  not  propose 
at  present  to  sit  in  judgment  upon  the  right 
of  any  man  who  has  presented  his  creden- 
tials tq.  this  Convention.  AH  I  desire  is,  that 
a  committee  shall  be  appointed  for  the  pur- 
pose of  ascertaining  whether  certain  individ- 
uals have  been  voted  for  in  certain  localities, 
who  should  not  under  any  circvimstances, 
become  ehgible  to  seats  in  tliis  body.  I  agree 
with  the  gentleman  that  the  certificate  of 
election  is  prima  fade  evidence  of  right  to  a 
seat.  But  I  ask  the  members  of  this  Con- 
vention to  discriminate  between  the  doctrine 
that  the  certificate,  being  fair  upon  its  face,  is 
presumptive  and  prima  fade  evidence  of  the 
legality  of  a  person's  election,  and  the  propo- 
sition contained  in  this  resolution,  which  is 
simply  to  make  an  inquiry  in  regard  to  the 
eligibility  of  certain  individuals,  in  certain 
contingencies,  to  a  seat  here.  I  am  satisfied 
that  our  whole  proceedings  are  to  be  reviewed 
by  Congress,  and  I  ask,  gentlemen,  what  will 
be  the  evidence  presented  to  that  body  ?  The 
journals  of  this  Convention  are  proper  evi- 
dence, and  when  members  of  Congress  look 
into  them  and  there  see  certificates  of  election 
apparently  fair  upon  their  face,  they  can 
come  to  no  other  conclusion  than  tliat  they 
are  prima  facie  and  presumptive  evidence  of 
the  rights  of  these  members.  "When  they 
see  also  that  there  is  incontrovertible  evidence 
of  the  fact  that  certain  individuals,  who  were 
voted  for  in  certain  localities  were  officers  of 
the  United  States  government,  (Post  Masters 
excepted,)  what  conclusions  can  they  come  to, 
when  they  read  the  Constitution  of  the  Uni- 
ted States  and  the  Organic  Act,  except  that 


such  individuals  cannot  become  members  of 
this  Convention  imder  any  circmnstances  or 
in  any  contingency  ? 

Mr.  WILSON.  I  agree  with  my  friend 
from  Scott  coimty  [Mr.  Galbbaith]  that  this 
is  not  the  time  or  place,  nor  are  circumstan- 
ces such  as  authorize  us  to  go  into  an  inves- 
tigation of  this  matter,  at  this  time.  I 
agree  also  with  my  friend  from  Brookfield, 
in  part,  that  vmder  no  circumstances,  and  on 
no  conditions,  am  I  witling  as  a  member  of 
this  Convention,  nor  am  I  willing  that  this 
Convention  itself  should  proceed  to  judge  of 
the  qualifications  or  eligibility  of  members 
who  have  never  presented  certificates  of  elec- 
tion here ;  have  never  asked  admission  into 
our  body ;  and  probably  never  will.  I  must 
object  to  that  in  toto.  We  must  not  only 
act  fairly  and  honestly,  but  with  dignity.  We 
must  not  step  to  one  side  or  the  other  for  the 
purpose  of  gratifying  outside  curiosity.  Of 
doing  something  forsooth,  which  may  look 
well,  unless  it  is  legitimate  for  this  body  to 
do  so.  Whenever  we  do  so,  we  place  our- 
selves in  a  position  which  I  do  not  wish  to 
occupy.  The  last  gentleman  who  spoke  said 
he  did  not  wish  to  sit  in  judgment  on  any 
member  who  has  presented  his  certificate 
of  election  here,  and  been  accepted  by 
this  body.  We  have  a  certificate  of  every 
member  of  this  body,  not  one  of  which  cer- 
tificates are  contested  by  an  opponent  claim- 
ing a  seat  here.  This  resolution  then  must 
have  reference  to  members  not  within  this 
body,  and  who  probably  never  will  be.  If 
so,  then  we  are  going  into  an  examination  of 
cases  outside  of  our  body.  We  are  upon 
one  side ;  who  is  upon  the  other  ?  Is  it  not 
an  exparte  examination  by  those  who  are  op- 
posed to  those  parties  whose  cases  we  are 
examining,  without  their  having  any  chance 
to  show  their  claims  here.  Will  it  not  go 
forth  to  the  world  that  it  was  omr  exparte 
examination?  Most  certainly  it  will.  This 
body  sits  here  and  is  supposed  to  act  not 
only  correctly,  but  legally.  But  it  is  not 
coiTect  for  us  to  decide  upon  the  qualifica- 
tions of  a  person  who  has  never  asked  to  be 
admitted  as  a  member,  and  who  never  will 
come  before  that  proposed  committee  to  make 
a  case  for  himself.  It  is  not  legitimate,  and 
it  is  not  right  to  do  so,  and  we  make  nothing 
hy  it.     The  matter  of  his  bemg  an  officer  of 


66 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBxVTES— Fkiday,  July  17. 


the  United  States  is  a  matter  which  is 
knowTi,  it  is  a  matter  of  record,  and  it 
is  not  necessaiy  for  us  to  go  into  an  exam- 
ination of  it.  An  investigation  of  one's  eli- 
gibility is  only  proper  when  he  asks  to  become 
a  member.  Who  knows  that  such  a  one  will 
ever  ask  admission  here  ?  Our  investigation 
into  the  eligibility  of  persons  who  may  possi- 
bly propose  to  become  members,  will  be  a 
squandering  of  time  which  will  not  pay,  and 
labor  which  will  not  satisfy.  I  am  opposed 
to  it,  and  hope  every  member  will  oppose  it. 
I  hope  we  shall  take  no  course  for  the  pur- 
pose of  making  capital,  and  that  we  will 
attend  to  busines  which  legitimately  belongs 
to  us. 

The  question  was  then  taken  on  the  motion 
to  suspend  the  rules,  and  it  was  not  agreed 
to,  (two  thirds  not  voting  in  favor  thereof). 

The  resolution  was  then  laid  over  under 
the  rules. 

Mr.  NORTH  oifered  the  following  resolu- 
tion: 

"  Whereas,  There  are  a  considerable  number  of 
delegates  well  known  to  have  been  elected  to  this 
Convention  who  are  now  in  the  citj'  and  apparently 
undecided  in  regard  to  presenting  their  creden- 
tials and  taking  seats  in  this  body,  therefore — 

"  JResolved,  That  this  Convention  has  been  and 
is  at  all  times  ready  to  receive  delegates  who  have 
been  duly  elected  within  the  limits  of  the  proposed 
State  of  Minnesota,  and  t  hat  all  such  delegates  are 
respectfully  invited  to  present  their  credentials 
and  take  their  seats  on  terms  of  perfect  equality 
with  the  present  members  of  this  Convention." 

Mr.  NORTH  said  :  My  reason  for  offering 
this  resolution  is  that  we  may  express,  as 
a  body,  what  I  beheve  to  be  the  sentiment  of 
every  individual  member,  and  that  we  may 
put  ourselves  right  upon  the  record. 

Mr,  GALBRAITH.  I  favor  that  resolution 
sincerely.  Now  that  all  danger  of  any  phys- 
ical conflict  between  the  contending  factions 
and  ourselves  here  has  passed  away,  I  may 
say  that  it  is  a  matter  of  regret  that  such  a 
state  of  affairs  should  exist,  and  every  mem- 
ber of  the  Convention  so  solemnly  assembled, 
thinks  it  so.  We  desire  to  be  harmonious. 
Wc  desire  that  there  shall  be  a  union  of  every 
member  representing  a  constituency  of  this 
Territory,  in  order  that  every  constituency 
may  have  a  Constitution  in  which  they  have 
had  a  voice  by  their  representative  ;  and  it 
is  for  us  to  say  So  now  unanimously,  in  orckr 


to  put  forever  the  brand  of  falsehood  upon 
the  slander  that  we  kept  men  out  by  main 
force.  Open  all  the  doors,  as  they  always 
have  been  opened,  but  open  them  by  a  unani- 
mous vote.  Say  to  every  man  who  has  a  legal 
right  to  a  seat,  "  You  are  welcome  to  come  in 
"  and  take  a  seat  and  act  with  us  upon  perfect 
"terms  of  equality."  This  and  no  more  than 
this  the  honor  of  our  State  requires.  It  puts 
us  right  upon  the  record,  and  it  puts  our 
original  intentions  right  upon  the  record. 
Never  has  a  single  man  of  this  Convention — 
and  I  have  heard  every  one  express  his  senti- 
ments— expressed  a  single  sentiment  that 
would  indicate  that  it  was  his  wish  to  keep 
out  of  the  Convention  a  single  man  who  has 
a  right  to  be  here.  We  msh  now  to  hold  out 
the  ohve  branch  of  peace.  If  those  gentle- 
men who  have  a  right  to  come  in,  wish  to 
come  in,  invite  them  to  come.  Let  us  put 
this  upon  the  record,  and  say  to  our  constitu- 
ents, and  to  the  world,  that  the  doors  of  this 
Hall  are  not  closed  against  any  legally  elected 
member.  I  know  that  is  the  unanimous  voice 
of  every  man  here.  I  hope  for  peace  and 
quiet,  and  though  the  report  has  gone  abroad 
that  this  Convention  holds  this  Hall  by  force 
of  arms,  that  report,  our  consciencies,  our 
votes,  our  caucuses,  and  our  own  knowledge 
put  to  rest.  We  feel  that  it  is  not  true.  Let 
that  slander  go  with  other  slanders,  where  it 
shoxild  go.  I  hope  I  shall  never  again  men- 
tion it. 

I  hope  this  resolution  will  pass  unani- 
mously. If  gentlemen  have  sentiments  upon 
this  subject,  I  hope  they  will  freely  but 
briefly  express  them.  If  our  Democratic 
friends  who  sit  in  the  opposite  Hall — for  some 
cause,  I  know  not  what — have  any  reason  for 
staying  away,  let  us  know  it :  and  let  us  say 
to  them,  that  because  they  are  Democrats  we 
do  not  disrespect  them  as  gentlemen.  Such 
an  idea  has  never  been  expressed. 

Mr.  IIAYDEN.  I  move  that  the  rules  bo 
suspended  so  as  to  enable  us  to  put  that  res- 
olution upon  its  passage  now. 

Mr.  LOWE.  It  strikes  me  that  the  resolu- 
tion is  an  undignified  one  for  such  a  body  as 
this  to  adopt,  and  in  fact  that  it  is  a  mere 
matter  of  surplusage.  Why,  wc  tell  mem- 
bers that  they  have  a  right  to  come  in  here, 
when  that  right  is  a  matter  of  notoriety.  Wo 
might  as  well  express  our  opinion,  by  resolu- 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Fbiday,  July  17. 


67 


tion,  by  law,  that  we  do  not  intend  to  rob  or 
murder  tliem.  This  Convention  has  been 
open  to  everybody  to  come  in.  If  there  is 
anybody  who  is  not  perfectly  aware  of 
that  fact,  it  indicates  a  sti-ange  state  of  igno- 
rance upon  their  part,  and  if  there  is  any 
wrong  impression  wliich  should  be  removed, 
it  should  be  removed  in  some  other  way.  The 
resolution  strikes  me  in  the  most  unfavorable 
light  possible.  I  regard  it  as  an  insult.  I  want 
to  do  everything  possible  to  be  done,  to  re- 
move any  misapprehension,  and  induce  those 
to  come  in  here  who  have  the  right.  I  look 
upon  it  as  important  tliat  thej  should  come 
in,  but  I  must  declare  that  I  look  upon  that 
resolution  as  entirely  inappropriate  to  adopt, 
and  that  it  will  show  the  proceedings  of  this 
Convention  in  an  unfavorable  light.  I  sup- 
pose the  Convention  will  look  upon  it  merely 
in  the  spirit  in  which  it  was  offered,  but  that 
is  not  the  only  light  in  which  it  should  be 
viewed.  We  have  no  right  to  inform  gentle- 
men having  certificates  of  election,  that  they 
have  the  right  to  come  in.  They  already 
know  they  have. 

Mr.  DAVIS.  I  have  no  desire  to  extend 
this  discussion,  but  I  desire  to  say  that  I  am 
opposed  to  the  resolution.  "We  have  come 
here,  and  organized  imder  law.  We  are  the 
legal  Constitutional  Convention  of  Minnesota. 
We  have  at  present  fifty -nine  members,  and 
had  upon  the  organization  fifty-six.  It  is  be- 
neath our  dignity  as  a  Constitutional  Conven- 
tion to  coax  a  faction  to  come  in,  which  sees 
fit,  because  it  cannot  get  forcible  possession 
of  this  Hall,  to  organize  itself  in  another  part 
of  the  House.  They  are  aware  that  they 
should  have  come  up  here  in  a  peaceable  man- 
ner, and  that  those  having  legal  rights  to 
seats  would  not  be  refused.  I  am  opposed 
to  coaxing  unruly  children.  I  am  opposed  to 
buying  them  to  do  right,  by  presents  of  candy 
and  sugar.  I  have  seen  the  effect  of  that 
course  too  often.  I  am  opposed  to  sending 
out  to  the  world  this  resolution,  and  I  hope 
every  member  will  vote  against  it. 

Mr.  MANTOR.  I  wish  to  give  my  opinion 
briefly  in  common  with  others,  upon  this 
question.  It  seems  to  me  the  height  of  folly 
to  discuss  a  question  of  this  kind.  It  has 
been  the  fortune  of  my  life  to  have  been 
thrown  somewhat  into  different  kinds  of 
societv,  and  in  that  time  I  have  received  calls 
'      8 


to  meet  my  friends  at  different  points,  and 
sometimes  I  have  felt  gratified  to  meet  with 
them.  But  that  was  done  in  a  social  way. 
But  we  come  here  as  representatives  to  form 
a  State  Constitution  for  the  incoming  State  of 
Minnesota.  Agreeable  to  the  provisions  of 
the  Enabling  Act  of  Congress,  which  author- 
izes this  Convention,  we  found  ourselves  as- 
sembled here  last  Monday  morning,  as  the 
representatives  of  the  people.  Nearly  a  week 
has  passed  away,  and  we  have  found  out  by 
the  conjectm"es  of  some  men  here,  that  there 
is  a  class  of  men  in  St  Paul,  who,  forsooth, 
have  been  elected  to  represent  the  dear  people 
of  this  commonwealth  in  this  Convention,  but 
who  have  neglected  to  present  their  creden- 
tials. Now,  sir,  I  do  not  wish  to  cast  any 
imputations  upon  men  because  they  do  not 
come  up  to  the  i-ack,  fodder  or  no  fodder, 
and  present  such  credentials ;  but,  sir,  for  us, 
as  representatives,  to  extend  oiu*  hands  to 
them,  and  with  this  poUte  invitation,  beg 
them  to  come  in  and  take  seats  among  us, 
when,  if  as  good  citizens,  they  woiold  do  their 
duty,  they  would  be  here,  is  a  solecism  to  me. 
I  trust  the  resolution  wiU  be  voted  down. 
For  my  pait  I  am  not  willing  that  this  matter 
of  burlesque  should  go  the  country,  and  give 
them  to  understand  that  this  deliberate  body, 
containing  fifty-nine  representatives  coming 
fi-om  different  sections  of  the  Territory, 
would  come  here  and  ask  a  minority  of 
men  in  the  city  of  St.  Paul  to  come  in  and 
sit  down  beside  us.  I  like  the  principle  of 
of  "milk  for  children,  and  strong  meat  for 
men."  They  have  the  right  to  come  here  and 
take  seats  when  they  present  us  their  creden- 
4aals,  and  we  have  not  the  right  to  question 
them  if  they  are  not  contested.  I  am  willing 
to  see  spread  upon  the  record  that  which  will 
represent  to  the  people  our  fairness,  but  I  do 
not  see  anything  which  calls  for  us  to  send 
out  an  invitation  to  men  to  do  what  they  know 
they  have  a  right  to  do  at  any  time. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  hope  that  the  rules 
may  be  suspended,  that  this  resolution  may 
be  considered  and  passed  at  this  time.  I 
have  no  fears  that  in  passing  a  resolution  of 
this  sort,  that  I  as  an  individual  member  of 
this  Convention,  or  that  the  Convention  itself 
is  going  to  compromise  its  dignity  in  any 
respect.  It  has  been  stated  outside  that  our 
course  has  been  such  as  to  preclude  thoK 


^8 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Friday,  July  17. 


members  to  whom  the  resolution  refers,  from 
xjoming  in  here.  Now  this  resolution  simply 
contradicts  that  assertion.  It  is  simply  a  de- 
claration upon  our  part,  without  retracting 
anything  we  have  said,  without  retracting  one 
single  step  of  our  course,  without  expressing 
any  regret  for  any  act  we  have  performed, 
that  we  are  and  have  been  desirous  that  those 
men  who  hold  certifieaftes  shall  come  in  and 
take  their  seats.  I,  as  a  member  of  the  Con- 
vention am  desirous  that  they  should  do  so. 
I  desire  their  aid  and  assistance  in  the  labors 
before  us.  There  are  among  them  men  of 
experience,  ability  and  wisdom,  whose  advice 
would  be  useful  and  servicable  to  this  Con- 
vention. If  by  passing  this  resolution  we  can 
counteract  the  false  reports  which  have  been 
•circulated,  without  compromising  our  dignity, 
without  retracting  anything  we  have  said  or 
done,  I  see  nothing  objectionable  in  it  to  say 
the  least. 

Mr.  HAYDEN.  I  beg  to  differ  from  those 
gentlemen  who  oppose  the  resolution.  Such 
is  human  natm-e  that  it  is  often  necessary 
that  men  should  receive  line  upon  line  and 
precept  upon  precept  before  they  wiU  be 
induced  to  come  up  to  that  which  they  know 
•to  be  right.  They  have  to  be  urged,  entreat- 
ed and  invited  in  various  ways,  and  I  never 
supposed  that  to  do  so,  was  undignified,  or 
imgentlemanly.  The  great  moral  reforms  of 
our  world  are  based  upon  that  principle,  and 
I  do  not  consider  it  undignified  to  ask  those 
men  to  come  in  and  take  seats  with  us, 
though  they  know  and  their  constituents 
know,  it  is  their  duty  to  do  so.  We  should 
be  glad  to  have  them  here,  and  if  by  giving 
them  to  understand  that  we  are  ready  to 
receive  them,  and  to  do  by  them  as  we 
would  they  should  do  to  us,  they  should  be 
induced  to  come,  I  think  we  shall  have  accom- 
plished an  important  work.  I  hope  the  Con- 
vention will  vote  to  suspend  the  rules,  and 
will  pass  the  resolution.  If  they  do  come 
and  act  with  us  everything  will  go  on  harmo- 
niously, and  we  will  speedily  accomplish  that 
for  which  we  were  sent  here,  and  the  people 
will  be  satisfied. 

The  question  was  taken  on  the  motion  to 
suspend  the  rules,  and  it  was  decided  in  the 
affirmative. 

The  question  then  recurred  on  the  passage 
of  the  resolution. 


Mr.  NORTH.  It  seems  to  me  that  this  is 
a  very  plain  and  simple  matter,  and  one 
wliich  should  not  occasion  much  diflference  of 
opinion.  If  we  were  circumstanced  just  as 
those  gentlemen  are  to  whom  that  resolution 
refers,  and  we  felt  as  I  have  no  doubt  many 
of  them  feel — desiring  very  much  a  different 
state  of  things — we  should  feel  much  more 
like  coming  and  taking  our  seats  if  we  were 
met  cordially,  the  hand  of  friendship  extended 
to  us,  and  we  treated  like  friends  and  neigh- 
bors in  this  matter,  than  we  should  if  we  saw 
an  unfriendly  and  turbulent  disposition  mani- 
fested towards  us.  Kind  words,  it  is  often 
said,  cost  but  little,  but  they  are  very  useful. 

Many  long  contests,  strifes  and  wars  have 
sprung  from  a  few  hard  words  in  the  com- 
mencement. I  have  no  idea  that  any  thing 
we  say  and  do  in  the  adoption  of  this  resolu- 
tion wiU  give  any  one  the  impression  that  this 
Convention  lacks  the  courage,  nerve,  or  de- 
cision, to  stand  up  to  the  right.  We  have 
our  reputation  pretty  well  cstabhshed  at  the 
present  time  for  that,  and  I  hope  also  for 
courtesy  and  kindness  to  those  who  differ 
from  us.  By  passing  this  resolution  wo 
extend  our  hand  to  them  cordially,  and  give 
them  a  polite  invitation,  and  thus  declare  that 
we  appreciate  their  ability  and  services  in  the 
Convention.  If  they  do  not  choose  to  accept 
the  invitation,  we  place  ourselves  in  the  right 
position  at  any  rate.  If  they  spurn  it,  it  but 
increases  the  difficulties  under  which  they 
labor. 

Mr.  LOWE.  I  am  reluctant  to  oppose  the 
resolution  as  it  seems  to  meet  the  views  of 
the  Convention,  but  it  seems  to  me  unprece- 
dented in  its  character.  I  consider  it  entirely 
impertinent  to  suggest  to  those  gentlemen  to 
do  what  they  know  they  have  a  right  to  do. 
It  seems  to  me  that  this  body  should  avoid 
any  deviation  from  the  ordinary  course  of 
proceeding. 

Mr.  FOSTER.  On  consultation  with  sev- 
eral members,  and  believing  it  sound  policy  I 
offer  the  following  substitute : 

"  Whereas,  There  are  several  districts  in  the 
Territory  which  ore  not  fully  represented,  in  this 
body,  and  whereas  we  understand  there  are  seve- 
ral delegates  now  in  St.  Paul  who  are  entitled  to 
scats  with  us,  and  whereas  it  is  desirable  to  com- 
plete the  appointment  of  the  several  committee? 
of  this  body  as  soon  as  possible  and  to  have  in 
such  committees  the  services  of  all  the  deleg^itci 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Fkiday,  July  17. 


!»y 


who  are  entitled  to  seats  in  the  Constitutional 
Convention  in  order  that  our  constituents  may 
hare  the  benefits  of  the  combined  wisdom  and  ex- 
perience of  all  their  delegates  in  the  important 
work  of  firaming  their  Constitution  ;  therefore  be 
it— 

"  Besohed,  That  the  President  be  requested  to 
delay  the  appointment  of  the  several  committees 
of  the  Constitutional  Convention  till  Monday  the 
2i>th  July  instant,  and  that  all  persons  who  claim 
to  be  entitled  to  seats  as  delegates  be  respectfiilly 
requested  to  present  their  claims  to  this  Conven- 
tion before  that  time." 

Mr.  NORTH.  I  should  be  in  favor  of  that 
substitute,  if  amended  by  striking  out  the 
request  to  the  Preadent  to  delay  the  appoint- 
ment of  Committees.  With  that  exception,  I 
prefer  the  substitute  to  the  original. 

Mr.  SEGOMBE.  I  did  not  intend  to  make 
any  remarks  upon  the  original  resolution,  but 
the  substitute  presents  a  different  aspect  of 
affairs,  and  I  shall  oppose  it.  I  believe  it  is 
the  wish  of  a  majority  of  the  Convention  that 
the  committees  should  be  appointed  immedi- 
ately, and  that  we  proceed  to  the  discharge  of 
the  duties  for  which  we  have  assembled,  and 
then  go  home  and  present  the  Constitution  to 
the  people  for  ratification.  I  do  believe  it  is 
bad  poUcy  to  delay  the  matter  any  longer. 
"We  are  properly  organized  and  ready  to  pro- 
ceed to  business.  We  are  already  near  the 
close  of  the  first  week,  and  this  proposition  is 
for  the  still  further  delay  of  two  or  three  days. 
I  do  not  favor  the  object  of  this  delay,  but  I 
do  not  propose  to  object  to  the  passage  of 
the  resolution  imaccompanied  by  the  definite 
action  proposed  by  the  substitute. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  "SVhen  this  resolution 
was  first  presented  I  regarded  it  unfevorably. 

It  is  well  known  that  my  desire  is  for  union 
if  possible — ^any  union  which  will  not  sacrifice 
any  prerogatives  which  this  Convention  has 
already  acquired ;  which  will  not  sacrifice  our 
dignity,  and  our  rights  to  be  an  organized 
Convention.  I  stand  here  feeling  just  as  cer- 
tain that  we  are  organized  according  to  law 
and  justice,  as  I  can  be.  I  feel  that  we  are  the 
Constitutional  Convention  contemplated  by 
the  law.  For  that  reason  and  various  others 
which  I  need  not  mention,  I  came  to  the  con- 
clusion last  night  that  longer  delay  was  un- 
necessary and  uncalled  for,  and  that  we  ought 
to  have  the  committees  announced  to-day. 

I  said  that  when  the  resolution  was  first 
submitted  I  disapproved  of  it.     But  wise  men 


in  this  body,  in  whom  I  have  confidence,  and 
and  one  especially  in  whose  judgment  I  have 
as  much  confidence  as  in  any  man  in  this 
body,  have  suggested  to  me  that  it  is  well 
probably  to  pass  this  resolution.  He  says  to 
me,  "  You  are  a  lawyer,  and  does  not  this 
"  resolution  operate  as  a  notice  to  those  who 
"  have  not  pres«ited  their  credentials  that 
"  we  will  not  wait  beyond  a  certain  time,  and 
"  if  they  whose  services  we  need  and  desire 
"  upon  the  committee,  do  not  appear  within 
"  that  time,  we  will  proceed  to  their  appoint- 
"  ment  ?"  Such  would  be  but  following  out 
the  corffse  usually  taken  in  matters  of  public 
concern.  Now  there  are  among  that  niunber 
of  men  not  in  this  Convention — kept  out,  I  am 
sorry  to  say,  by  some  foolish  party  whim,  I 
know  not  what — on  whom  this  Territory  looks 
with  great  esteem  and  respect.  So  do  I,  and  so 
do  we  all.  They  are  men  who  have  the  qualifi- 
cations of  that  mature  intelligence  which  entitle 
them  to  important  positions  upon  the  Com- 
mittees of  this  body.  If  those  men  refuse  to 
come  in,  yet  we  shMl  have  ^ven  them  public 
notice  of  the  fact. 

The  substitute  is  nothing  more  than  the 
original  resolution,  with  the  simple  addition 
of  a  fixed  time  for  the  appointment  of  the 
committees.  As  to  the  day,  it  is  but  to- 
morrow and  Monday  next.  Saturday  and 
Sabbath  intervene.  In  that  period  they  can 
have  time  to  consider,  we  will  be  ri^t  upon 
the  record,  and  the  world  will  see,  as  we  can 
see  now,  that  this  Convention  have  acted 
fairly ;  that  they  have  organized  and  have  the 
power  in  their  hands,  but  have  not  made  a 
desperate  use  of  that  power.  We,  gentlemen, 
are  imder  the  protection  of  law,  and  the  pro- 
tection of  the  majority,  as  we  believe.  We 
are  here,  plainly,  clearly,  and  wisely  organ- 
ized. What  submission  is  it  for  the  victor  to 
be  honorable?  Why  strike  a  fallen  foe? 
Hold  our  position  where  we  are  firmly,  and 
what  will  the  world  say  ?  It  will  stamp  the 
brand  of  falsehood  upon  the  slander  cast 
forth,  that  this  Convention  has  met  here  as  a 
mob,  and  that  we  are  so.  It  will  make  a 
clean  record.  Men  who  read  our  records  will 
award  us  justice  and  say  we  are  right. 
Reconciliation  upon  honorable  terms  is  the 
disposition  of  every  man  in  this  body.  Upwi 
this  groimd  we  stand,  and  ask  for  our  ri^ts 
and  ask  for  nothing  more.     Is  not  that  fair? 


60 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Friday,  July  17. 


What  harm,  then  will  this  do  us  ?  It  is  im. 
portant  that  we  should  be  right  upon  the  re- 
cord, and,  that  we  should  refute  the  slanders, 
which  have  been  heralded  throughout  the 
counhy.  Be  right  ourselves,  and  if  others  will 
persist  in  the  wrong,  convinced  against  their 
will,  we  wash  our  hands  of  the  consequences 
and  say — "  Gentlemen,  you  are  the  victims  of 
"  your  own  folly." 

I  hope  that  the  resolution  will  pass,  not 
that  I  was  Originally  in  favor  of  it,  but  be- 
cause wise  and  cool  heads  in  this  body,  and 
as  firm  men  as  ever  stood  upon  this  floor, 
have  said  they  wanted  the  resolution  passed. 
I  yield  to  their  views,  and  I  trust  that  every 
member  of  this  Convention  will  yield  to  what 
is  right,  and  adhering  to  our  ovm,  tell  the 
world  that  we  are  ready  to  do  right  and  jus- 
tice to  others. 

Mr.  FOSTER.  I  offered  my  substitute 
with  some  fear  that  it  might  be  objected  to 
by  many  members,  because  I  well  know  the 
anxiety  of  the  Convention  to  proceed  to  busi- 
ness, and  because  I  know  their  convictions 
are  that  we  are  the  Convention,  and  that 
there  is  no  doubt  as  to  the  correctness  of  our 
position.  For  those  reasons  I  felt  reluctant 
to  offer  it.  But  I  thought  I  had  reason  to 
believe  that  it  was  better  for  us  to  pursue 
the  course  usually  pursued  in  all  courts  of 
justice — give  notice  before  we  take  judgment. 
Let  them  know  that  if  on  or  before  a  certain 
day  they  do  not  perform  or  complete  a  cer- 
tain act,  we  will  and  can  wait  no  longer.  It 
at  once  removes  all  excuse  for  delay.  They 
know  and  the  public  know  that  our  course  is 
marked  out,  and  that  we  are  going  right 
straight  ahead.  It  is  but  a  small  concession. 
To-day  nothing  vrill  be  done ;  to-morrow  is  a 
non- working  day,  and  Sunday  is  another. 
All  that  is  asked  is  to  delay  until  Monday 
morning,  to  give  them  notice  of  the  delay, 
and  that  after  that  time  the  record  is  made 
up,  and  our  course  is  onward.  If  after  that, 
any  thing  happens  which  they  do  not  like, 
theirs  is  the  fault. 

Mr.  PERKINS.  I  do  not  intend  to  oppose 
the  resolution  of  my  colleague,  although  I 
am  unable  to  sec  the  propriety  and  dignity  of 
stopping  at  this  period  of  the  Convention  and 
attempting  to  clear  up  our  character.  We 
are  assembled  by  authority  of  law,  and 
assembled  for  legitimate  business.    I  think  if 


the  course  we  hereafter  pursue  is  as  consist- 
ent as  the  one  heretofore,  all  will  be  well  in 
the  end.  I  am  opposed  however  to  the  sub- 
stitute because  it  proposes  still  further  delay, 
contrary  to  the  well  expressed  sentiment  of 
a  majority  yesterday.  It  seems  to  me  to  be 
the  play  of  children.  I  see  no  evidence  of  a 
disposition  on  the  part  of  those  holding  cer- 
tificates to  come  into  this  body.  They  were 
in  this  Hall  on  the  day  specified  in  the  Ena- 
bling Act  for  the  assembling  of  this  Conven- 
tion. But  they  staid  only  long  enough  to 
adjourn  themselves  and  go  out  of  the  Hall. 
I  do  not  consider  that  we  are  bound,  in 
honor  or  courtesy,  to  wait  longer,  and  have 
our  noses  snubbed  any  more  by  those  disaf- 
fected delegates,  if  any  such  there  are.  We 
can  afford  now  to  go  along  with  our  business 
and  do  the  work  for  which  we  are  assembled. 
If  we  are  assembled  according  to  law,  why 
stop  to  clear  up  our  character,  and  make  any 
further  show  to  the  world  than  we  have 
already  made,  that  we  intend  to  do  the  fair 
thing.  If  there  are  any  individuals  in  town 
entitled  to  seats,  let  them  present  theii*  certifi- 
cates, and  then  it  will  be  soon  enough  to 
show  that  we  have  no  disposition  to  exclude 
them  from  this  body.  I  hope  the  resolution 
will  not  be  adopted,  and  that  the  committees 
will  be  appointed,  in  accordance  with  the 
general  sentiment  yesterday. 

Mr.  KING.  We  have  no  evidence  in  any 
oflBcial  document  that  there  ever  has  been  a 
disposition  upon  the  part  of  the  Convention 
to  exclude  any  members  from  their  seats,  and 
these  outside  reports,  of  which  gentlemen  are 
atraid,  are  not  true.  What  is  the  use  of  ask- 
ing men  to  disbelieve  what  they  know  is  not 
true?  They  know  they  have  the  right  to 
come  here.  If  I  wanted  to  go  into  a  body 
to  which  I  had  a  right  of  admission  1  would 
knock  at  the  door,  and  if  not  admitted  would 
take  due  course  of  law  to  get  my  rights.  I 
would  not  wait  to  be  invited  and  coaxed  in 
any  such  manner.  If  we  coax  them  in,  they 
will  be,  when  they  get  in,  like  other  spoUed 
children.  Let  them  come  in  like  men,  and 
they  will  act  like  men.  I  have  myself  como 
to  the  conclusion  that  some  of  our  men  who 
have  been  unflinching  heretofore,  are  begin- 
ning to  wjvcr,  and  are  becoming  afraid  of 
the  consequences.  If  I  see  much  further 
demonstrations  of  the  kind,  I  shall  vote  for 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— J-^ridat,  Jllt  17. 


<1 


some  new  leaders  who  will  go  ahead  witliout 
fear. 

Mr.  MESSER.  I  see  there  are  some  gen- 
tleman here  in  favor  of  the  resolution  and 
opposed  to  the  substitute.  There  seems  to 
me  an  inconsistency  in  this.  If  they  are  in 
favor  of  inviting  those  gentlemen  to  come  in, 
it  is  inconsistent  to  say  that  they  will  proceed 
with  business  at  once  so  that  they  shall  be 
debarred  fix)m  being  members  of  the  com- 
mittees. 

Mr.  BILLINGS.  I  ask  each  member  of 
the  Convention,  if  the  passing  of  the  resolu- 
tion would  accomplish  the  object  contemplated 
by  it,  he  would  not  vote  for  it  ?  WiU  it  not 
have  a  direct  influence  towards  accomplishing 
that  object?  I  have  learned  that  concession 
always  comes  with  better  grace  firom  a  su- 
perior, and  I  have  found  its  influence  in 
individual  cases  extremely  beneficial,  and  I 
think  its  exercise  exalts  instead  of  debases 
the  man.  It  is  said  that  we  are  confident  of 
our  integrity,  and  of  the  correctness  of  our 
position  and  that  we  ought  to  pursue  our 
course  energetically.  That  is  true,  but  there 
is  a  haste  which  is  not  proper.  TVe  may 
nm  so  fast  that  we  stimible.  "We  should 
make  all  due  progress,  and  discharge  ovu*  du- 
ties faitlifuUy,  efficiently,  and  in  such  a  man- 
ner as  to  be  able  to  go  home  to  the  people 
and  stand  approved  in  that  second  sober 
thought  which  will  be  brought  to  bear  upon 
our  actions.  I  do  not  consider  a  wish  to  de- 
lay tliis  matter  as  an  evidence  that  we  wish 
to  turn  back.  "When  I  consider  the  interests 
at  stake,  the  object  for  which  we  are  met,  and 
the  difficulties  which  will  be  obviated  by  a 
little  caution,  I  am  certainly  vrilling  to  vote 
for  this  delay.  There  is  no  man  present  who 
is  not  aware  that  we  shall  meet  with  innu- 
merable difficulties,  even  if  we  form  a  Consti- 
tution, if  it  is  an  erparte  one.  Now,  is  there 
any  man  so  fearful,  so  distrustful  that  the 
right  will  not  prevail,  that  we  must  iu"ge  on 
our  matters  to  day  ?  Is  there  any  disrespect 
or  want  of  good  faith  in  saying  to  those  men 
that  we  want  them  to  come  in  ?  I  would 
delay  action  not  only  to-day  and  to-morrow, 
but  still  further  if  in  this  great  work  we 
could  be  united  and  move  on  harmoniously 
as  one  man  in  the  accomplishment  of  the 
work  for  which  we  were  sent  here. 

I  do  not  believe  in  turning  back,  not  at  all. 


I  believe  that  we  are  the  regular  Convention, 
that  its  duties  are  to  be  performed  by  us,  and 
so  far  from  yielding,  if  a  majority  say  pro- 
gress now,  I  am  with  them,  but  it  is  my 
candid  opinion  that  it  is  discreet  and  proper 
to  say  to  those  who  are  not  present  to  see 
what  we  do,  and  who  are  beyond  the  reach 
of  the  influences  which  prevail  here,  that  we 
are  willing,  yea,  anxious  to  avail  ourselves  of 
the  intelligence,  the  experience  and  the  wis- 
dom of  all  elected  to  this  Convention,  in  the 
formation  of  a  Constitution,  which  is  not  for 
us  alone,  but  for  future  generations.  The 
breach  is  widened  by  outside  influences,  and 
no  other  power  than  this  Convention  can  heal 
it.  I  propose  to  do  nothing  dishonorable 
to  those  members  of  the  Convention,  and  I 
ask  for  no  concessions.  But  I  would  say  to 
them  that  we  have  open  doors,  open  hearts, 
and  ready  hands  to  welcome  them  here. 

Mr.  NORTH.  I  have  not  desired  to  occu- 
py time  in  the  discussion  of  this  resolution. 
It  seems  to  me  that  it  is  well  to  pass  it.  The 
more  I  reflect  upon  it,  the  more  I  am  in  favor 
of  the  substitute  as  it  stands,  without  the 
amendment  which  I  suggested  when  I  was 
up  before. 

It  is  gratifying  to  me  to  see  the  determina- 
tion and  resolution  of  the  Convention ;  and 
to  see  even  our  clerical  friends  nerve  them- 
selves in  so  war-like  a  manner,  is  a  little 
refreshing,  and  even  if  they  accuse  some  of 
us  of  being  tame  and  flagging  in  our  patriot- 
ism, we  will  bear  vrith  them  for  the  purpose 
of  seeing  the  good,  courage  and  grit  there  is 
upon  their  part.  But  it  seems  to  me  there  is 
nothing  lost  in  showing  courtesy  in  this  mat- 
ter. K  I  thought  there  was  a  member  of 
this  Convention  who  regretted  any  step  this 
Convention  had  taken,  who  wavered  for  a 
moment  in  r^ard  to  the  straight  forward 
course  we  should  piirsue,  I  should  feel  very 
differently  firom  what  I  do.  But  I  have  the 
most  complete  and  perfect  confidence  in  every 
member  of  the  Convention — even  in  those 
who  would  suspect  us  of  flagging ;  and  having 
that  perfect  confidence  and  security  in  regard 
to  the  matter,  I  feel  as  though  I  should  like  to 
see  this  Convention  show  its  good  nature,  its 
magninimity  and  its  kind  feelings  towards 
those  who  have  placed  themselves  in  an  awk- 
ward position.  I  know  if  we  were  in  their 
position,  we  woxild  like  to  be  taken  cordially 


62 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Fikday,  Ji;ly  i; 


by  the  hand  and  to  be  treated  with  that  cour- 
tesy with  which  we  all  desire  to  bo  treated. 
There  is  sometimes  a  great  deal  gained  by 
forbearance.  We  have  seen  that  exemplified 
in  the  warfare  in  Kansas,  where  some  of  the 
true  patriots  were  impatient  and  indignant  at 
the  forbearance,  and  what  they  sometimes 
thought,  the  timidity  of  the  Free-State  lead- 
ers in  Kansas.  But  experience  has  taught 
that  that  forbearance  was  the  truest  wisdom. 
If  we  err,  let  it  be  upon  the  side  of  forbear- 
ance, and  not  by  raslmess  and  haste  throw 
away,  the  possibility  of  harmonizing  this  Con- 
vention, and  cut  ofl'  the  prospect  of  a  speedy 
formation  of  a  State,  and  the  admission  of 
Minnesota  into  the  American  Union.  I  hope 
gentlemen  will  look  upon  this  matter  in  a 
practical  light.  While  we  concede  nothing 
of  our  rights  in  doing  this,  we  do  show  a  dis- 
position of  neighborly  fairness,  jdnd  feeling 
and  courtesy  towards  those  who  occupy  a 
position  different  from  ours.  I  hope  the  sub- 
stitute will  pass,  and  it  would  do  me  good  to 
see  it  pass  unanimously. 

Mr.  PECKHAM.  When  the  resolution 
was  first  introduced  it  struck  me  as  being 
beneath  the  dignity  of  this  body,  and  as  in- 
sulting to  those  members,  but  on  a  second 
thought  I  am  led  to  believe  that  it  is  in  pur- 
port, what  it  was  in  the  spirit  and  intent 
of  the  mover.  I  has  been  suggested  that  the 
resolution  is  unprecedented;  and  certainly 
the  circumstances  are  unprecedented.  If  I 
recollect  right  there  was  a  sort  of  semi-ofiicial 
statement  made  that  the  members  of  this 
Convention,  not  in  this  HaU,  were  actually 
excluded  from  it.  I  refer  to  the  answer  of 
the  President  of  the  Convention  to  a  certain 
demand  which  was  made  for  the  Ilall,  at  a 
time  when  we  were  in  session,  by  him  who 
assumed  that  he  had  the  right,  by  virtue  of 
his  ofiBce  as  Secretary  of  the  Territory,  to 
preside  over  this  Convention.  Perhaps  this 
body  ought  to  take  the  earliest  opportvmity 
possible  to  correct  any  such  impression,  if  it 
exists.  It  may  be  possible  that  those  who 
have  neglected  to  take  their  seats  with  us 
may  be  laboring  under  the  idea  tliat  they 
were  excluded  from  this  body  by  that  reply, 
and  as  has  been  said,  every  act  of  concilia- 
tion, mildness  and  forbearance  upon  our  part, 
will  redound  to  our  honor.  Let  us  do  all  we 
can  consistently  to  throw  oil  upon  the  troubled 


waters,  and  to  accomplish  that  for  which  we 
were  sent  here,  in  order  that  Minnesota  may, 
as  speedily  as  possible  come  in  as  one  of  the 
States  of  our  Union. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  At  the  present  time 
almost  every  deliberative  body  is  divided  into 
two  classes,  the  one  denominated  "  A'oung 
Americans,"  and  the  other  "  Conservatives," 
and  sometimes  "  Old  Fogies."  Now  I  sup- 
pose if  this  body  were  thus  divided  I  should 
be  classified  with  the  "Young  Americans," 
but  I  am  disposed  under  the  circxmistances  in 
which  we  are  placed,  to  listen  to  the  voice  of 
wisdom,  and  to  pursue  the  course  believed  to 
be  most  judicious.  If  I  err,  I  choose  to  be 
upon  the  right  side.  The  circmnstances  are 
peculiar,  and  demand  cautious  action  upon 
our  paii;.  When  I  came  here  this  morning 
I  was  in  favor  of  proceeding  with  our  busi- 
ness immediately,  but  having  conferred  with 
gentlemen  of  the  Convention  in  whose  expe- 
rience, wisdom  and  integrity  I  have  great 
confidence,  I  am  now  inclined  to  tliink  it  will 
be  judicious  for  us  to  pursue  the  course  pro- 
posed by  the  substitute.  It  will  serve  as  a 
notice  to  those  who  are  without,  that  unless 
they  see  fit  by  a  certain  time,  to  come  in  and 
take  part  with  us,  we  shall  proceed  without 
them.     I  hope  it  wUl  be  adopted. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  I  admire  in  the  first 
place,  the  kind  sentiment  and  feeling  which 
have  been  manifested  here  by  certain  individ- 
uals upon  my  right.  They  are  men  of  high 
standing,  whose  opinions  and  sentm^ents  are 
entitled  to  the  highest  regard,  and  I  warrant 
you,  should  they  see  any  of  their  friends,  or 
even  enemies,  in  circumstances  requiring  aid, 
they  would  be  the  first  men  to  step  forward 
and  grant  it.  But  it  seems-to  me  that  this  is 
not  the  proper  time  or  place  to  express  our 
S3rmpathetic  feelings.  We  are  assembled 
here  as  a  Convention  for  the  purpose  of  trans- 
acting business  as  such  Convention,  and  so 
far  as  this  substitute  is  concerned,  I,  as  an 
individual,  am  opposed  to  the  whole  of  it. 
Why  ?  Not  because  it  proposes  to  delay  the 
announcement  of  the  Standing  Committees  ; 
for  in  my  judgment  that  would  make  no 
difference  in  regard  to  the  result  of  our  delib- 
erations. I  wish  to  tell  gentlemen  here,  if  I 
understand  what  is  to  come  in  the  future,  that 
this  idea  of  hurrying  on  with  our  proceedings 
will  prove  to  be  wholly  fallacious.    The  idea 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Friday,  Jcly  1^ 


68 


that  we  can  lay  the  result  of  our  deliberations 
before  our  constituents  in  one,  three,  or  fire 
weeks  is  fcillacious.  If  we  look  at  what  our 
duties  must  necessarily  be,  we  shall  see  at 
once  that  we  cannot  perform  some  of  the 
most  material  parts  of  our  labor  until  we  as- 
certain the  amount  of  our  population.  With- 
out that,  how  are  we  to  arrive  at  our  repre- 
sentative, state,  senatorial,  and  congressional 
districts  ?  Can  you  get  the  census  in  one, 
two  or  three  weeks  ?  How  will  you  obtain  it  ? 
If  you  cannot  obtain  it,  how  can  you  complete 
yom-  labors  and  go  home  to  your  constituents 
with  your  constitution  ? 

It  is  not  then  that  the  substitute  proposes 
to  delay  the  appointment  of  the  committees 
that  I  oppose  it,  but  because,  if  I  understand 
it,  it  offers  to  those  gentlemen  what  I  should 
consider  an  insult.  Much  has  been  said  in 
regard  to  its  being  a  concession  on  our  part. 
Should  it  pass,  I  should  not  regard  it  as  such, 
but  as  an  insult  to  those  who  should  be  mem- 
bers of  this  body.  AYhy  ?  We  J)ropose,  in 
the  first  place,  to  tell  them  that  they  are  mem- 
bers of  this  Convention ;  not  only  that,  but 
they  are  entitled  to  seats  here ;  and  not  only 
that,  but  that  we  want  them  to  come  into  the 
Convention  and  deliberate  with  us.  Are  they 
fools?  Do  not  they  know  that  they  are 
elected  as  members  of  this  Convention,  and 
are  we,  the  legitimate  body,  to  sit  here  and 
adjudicate  upon  that  fact  before  they  present 
their  credentials  ?  Is  it  for  us  to  say  to  them, 
"  You  are  actually  members  of  the  Conven- 
"tion,  and  now  for  Heaven's  sake  come  in?" 
If  I  were  one  of  those  gentiemen,  I  would 
regard  it  as  a  practical  insult.  I  would  say 
to  you  members  of  the  Convention — "  You 
"  have  no  authority  to  tell  me,  nor  is  there 
"  any  propriety  in  your  teUing  me,  what  my 
"rights  and  privileges  are.  I  know  them 
"  weU  myself."  For  that  reason  I  am  oppos- 
ed to  the  passage  of  the  resolution. 

If  we  were  sitting  in  caucus,  and  an 
attempt  were  being  made  to  bring  about  a 
reconiciliation  between  Democratic  and  Re- 
publican members  of  •  this  Convention,  my 
judgment  is  that  I  should  use  just  as  sympa- 
thetic words  as  have  been  used  here,  for  the 
purpose  of  effecting  that  reconciliation.  And, 
in  my  judgment,  a  caucus  is  the  only  proper 
place  to  consider  such  a  subject  a.s  this. 

Much  has  been  said  about  slanders  which 


have  been  circulated.  How  do  you  know 
that  slanders  have  gone  abroad  ?  Has  any 
member  of  this  Convention  been  hit  ?  If  he 
has,  what  were  the  means  used  for  hitting 
him?  Some  might  say  the  newspapers  of 
St.  Paul.  And  to  show  to  the  Editors  of  the 
newspapers,  and  the  people  of  Minnesota 
that  he  has  been  wronfully  charged  with  cer- 
tain conduct,  and  that  he  is  not  such  a  scoun- 
drel and  villain  as  has  been  asserted,  gentie- 
men would  have  this  resolution  passed.  Let 
me  tell  gentiemen  that  I  want  no  better  place 
to  repel  any  false  charges  which  may  be 
brought  against  us,  than  the  stimip  before 
the  people.  I  want  no  better  evidence  than 
the  newspapers  themselves,  and  the  record 
of  our  proceedings. 

Again,  how  do  you  know  that  there  are  any 
members  outside  of  this  Convention?  When 
I  introduced  my  resolution  a  short,time  since, 
touching  the  fact  that  certain  members  had 
been  elected  who  were  federal  officers,  post- 
masters excepted,  objection  was  raised  iliat  a 
question  of  that  kind  was  not  before  the  Con- 
vention, and  that  it  could  not  be  raised  before 
us  as  a  Conventional  body  except  in  the  case 
that  such  a  man  had  presented  his  certificate 
of  election,  and  his  seat  was  contested.  But 
now  we  propose  to  take  it  for  granted  that 
there  are  certain  men  running  around  St. 
Paul,  who  are  actually  members  of  this  Con- 
vention, and  vmder  a  "  whereas  "  the  resolu- 
tion assmnes  that  there  are  such  members, 
and  proposes  to  invite  them  in.  For  myself 
I  am  opposed  toany  such  "  whereases  "  with 
such  assumptions  attached  to  them.  If  there 
are  such  men,  they  know  their  rights ;  and  if 
they  know  them,  like  the  rest  of  us,  they 
win  maintain  them.  Such  is  our  determina- 
tion, and  my  judgment  is,  such  is  their  deter- 
mination. For  that  reason  it  strikes  me  that 
to  pass  tills  resolution  would  be  a  departure 
from  our  dignity  as  a  body.  We  should  go 
on  and  discharge  our  legitimate  functions  and 
duties,  and  when  tiie  proper  time  comes  for 
us  to  repel  slanders,  let  us  repel  them. 

What  will  this  invitation  to  them  to  come 
in,  amount  to?  Suppose  the  resolution  is 
passed,  do  you  suppose  they  will  come  in,  in 
accordance  with  it  ?  Why,  they  will  make 
all  kinds  of  ridicule  of  us :  they  will  lau^  at 
us  :  they  will  sneer  at  us ;  and  in  my  judg- 
men  they  will  do  nothing  more  than  right 


e4 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Feiday,  Jcly  17. 


For  that  reason  I  am  in  favor  of  going  about 
our  business  as  a  Convention,  and  opposed  to 
going  to  work  to  compromise  with  individu- 
als in  the  streets  of  St.  Paul,  whom  we  assume 
to  be  members. 

Mr.  McCLURE.  I  offer  the  foUowing 
amendment  to  the  substitute : 

Strike  out  all  before  the  word  "  resolved" 
and  all  after  the  word  "  resolved"  and  insert : 

"By  this  Constitutional  Convention,  that  there 
are  districts  within  the  limits  of  the  proposed 
State  of  Minnesota  unrepresented  in  this  Conven- 
tion (at  the  present  time)  and  being  desirous  that 
every  district  should  be  fully  represented  in  the 
committees  of  this  Convention,  we  therefore  re- 
quest the  President  of  this  Convention,  to  defer 
the  appointment  of  the  said  committees  until  11 
o'clock,  A.  M.,  on  Monday  next,  in  order  to  give 
time  for  absent  delegates  to  present  their  creden- 
tials." 

I  hope  this  amendment  will  be  adopted, 
not  because  it  is  offered  by  myself,  but  be- 
cause I  am  opposed  to  all  "  whekeases"  and 
to  anything  of  the  kind,  assuming  that  there 
are  gentlemen  in  town  entitled  to  seats  in 
this  Convention,  who  have  not  presented  their 
credentials.  As  a  member  of  this  Constitu- 
tional Convention  I  do  not  know  anything 
about  it ;  as  a  man  I  know  something  about  all 
these  matters,  but  as  a  member  I  have  no  right 
to  know  whether  a  majority  of  this  Convention 
are  RepubUcans  or  Democrats.  All  I  know  is 
that  I  am  a  member  of  the  Constitutional  Con- 
vention assembled  at  the  Capitol  at  St.  Paul, 
for  the  purpose  of  transacting  the  legitimate 
business  of  such  Convention.  But  all  men 
know  that  there  are  certain  districts  unrep- 
resented here.  Who  should  represent  those 
districts  I  know  not.  Whoever  they  are,  the 
probability  is  that  business  or  sickness  de- 
tains them  at  home  ;  at  any  rate  the  assump- 
tion is  that  they  are  lawfully  detained.  We 
arc  not  to  presume  that  they  are  in  town, 
and  refuse  to  present  their  credentials.  Well, 
in  order  to  give  them  time  to  get  here  and  to 
participate  in  our  proceedings,  and  to  take 
part  as  members  of  our  committees,  I  offer 
my  amendment  and  hope  to  sec  it  adopted. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  That  amendment  ex- 
actly suits  my  views.  The  gentleman  has 
exactly  hit  the  nail  upon  the  head. 

The  question  was  then  taken  by  yeas  and 
nays  upon  the  adoption  of  the  amendment  to 
the  substitute,  and  it  was  decided  in  the  af- 
firmative, yeas  51,  nays  1  as  follows : 


Teas — Messrs.  Aldrich,  Anderson,  Ayer,  Bal- 
combe,  Baldwin,  Bates,  Bartholomew,  Billings, 
Bolles,  Butler,  Colburn,  Coggswell,  Coe,  Ceder- 
stam,  Coombs,  Davis,  Duley,  Dickerson,  Eschlie, 
Foster,  Folsom,  Galbraith,  Gerrish,  Hall,  Hayden, 
Harding,  Hudson,  Hanson,  Holly,  King,  Lyle, 
Lowe,  Mantor,  McClure,  Messer,  Morgan,  Mills, 
Murphy,  Perkins,  Putnam,  Peckham,  Bobbins, 
Ilussell,  Stannard,  Secombe,  Smith,  Sheldon, 
Vaughn,  Walker,  Winell  and  Watson. 

JVai/s — Mr.  Phelps. 

The  substitute  as  amended  was  then  adop- 
ted. 

ENTEKING  CREDENTIALS  ON  THE  JOURNALS. 

Mr.  ALDRICH.  I  move  to  reconsider  the 
vote,  taken  the  other  day,  by  which  the  Secre- 
tary was  directed  to  enter  our  credentials  on 
the  journals  of  the  Convention.  It  seems  to  me 
entirely  unnecessary  to  make  such  an  entry. 
It  makes  a  great  deal  of  work  for  the  Secre- 
tary, and  it  will  cost  something  to  print  them. 
The  credentials  have  been  referred  to  a  com- 
mittee, by  them  examined  and  reported  to  the 
Convention  as  correct.  It  seems  to  me  that 
that  is  all  that  is  necessary. 

Mr.  COGSWELL.  I  hope  the  motion  will 
not  prevail.  For  one  I  am  in  favor  of  having 
the  evidence  of  my  right  to  a  seat  in  the 
Convention,  placed  upon  the  journal. 

The  question  was  taken  and  the  motion  to 
reconsider  prevailed. 

The  question  then  was  "  shall  the  creden- 
tials be  entered  upon  the  journals?"  and  be- 
ing put  it  was  lost. 

On  motion  of  Mr.  FOSTER,  it  was— 

Ordered.  That  the  credentials  of  members  be 
filed  with  and  preserved  by  the  Secretary. 
PLACING  THE   ENABLING  ACT   ON  THE  JODENAL. 

Mr.  HUDSON  offered  the  foUowing  resolu- 
tion : 

"Beaolved,  That  the  law  of  Congress  under 
which  this  Convention  has  assembled  be  recorded 
on  the  first  page  of  the  journal  of  the  first  day's 
proceedings." 

The  resolution  was  laid  over  one  day  un- 
der the  rules. 

ADJOUBNMENT  OVER. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  move  that  when  the 
Convention  adjourns,  it  adjourn  initil  Monday 
morning  at  9  o'clock. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  I  should  prefer  that 
we  adjourn  to  a  later  hour  on  Monday,  as 
some  of  us,  having  business  at  home,  do  not 
live  quite  as  near  as  the  gentleman  from  St. 
Anthony.  I  move  11  o'clock,  as  an  amend- 
ment. 


MINNESOTA  CuNVENTION  DEBATES— Fsiday,  Jcly  17. 


65 


Mr.  SECOilBE.     I  accept  the  amendment. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  I  can  see  no  good 
reason  why  we  should  adjourn  imtil  Monday, 
imless  it  be  to  accommodate  a  few  of  our 
friends  who  happen  to  live  within  a  short 
distance  from  St.  Paul.  It  is  well  known 
that  most  of  us  Uve  at  a  great  distance  from 
this  point.  I  Uve  about  one  hundred  miles 
distant.  I  wish  here  to  state  that  I  hope 
the  Convention  vriU  not  adjourn  until  ihsA 
time,  for  the  reason  that  I  intend,  after  con- 
sultation \vith  members  of  this  Convention, 
to  move  an  adjournment  for  some  three  weeks 
or  more.  I  am  inclined  to  think  that  an 
adjournment  for  that  length  of  time  vrill  be 
necessary  for  the  circumstances  under  which 
we  are  placed.  If  we  diould  come  to  the 
conclusion  that  that  is  necessary,  it  seems  to 
me  that  we  might  come  to  that  conclusion 
between  this  time  and  next  Monday  morning, 
if  we  remain  in  session.  There  is  certain 
information  indispensibly  necessary  for  us  to 
have  before  we  can  go  to  work  successfully. 
The  way  and  manner  in  which  we  can  obtain 
that  information  is  a  great  question  in  my 
mind.  There  are  certain  methods  which  can 
be  adopted  for  the  purpose  of  procuring  it. 
If  we  adjourn  now  until  Monday,  considera- 
ble time  wild^lapse  in  which  we  cannot  trans- 
act the  business  which  should  be  transacted 
prior  to  a  conclusion  of  the  Convention  that 
they  will  adjourn  over  two  or  three  weeks. 

The  question  was  taken  on  the  motion  to 
adjourn  over  and  it  was  decided  in  the 
negative. 

ACCEPTANCE  OF  THE  PKOPOSITIONS  OF  CON- 
GRESS. 

Mr.  ROBBIXS  called  up  for  consideration 
the  resolution  of  Mr.  !McKuxe,  presented  on 
Wednesday  last  and  laid  on  the  table  under 
the  rules,  in  reference  to  accepting  the  propo- 
sition submitted  to  Congress,  contained  in 
the  fifth  section  of  the  Enabling  Act. 

The  resolution  was  read. 

Mr.  ROBBIXS.  I  understand  that  it  is 
necessary  that  we  should  dispose  of  this 
matter  before  any  action  is  taken  in  the  for- 
mation of  a  Constitution.  We  should  dispose 
of  it  as  soon  as  possible,  in  order  that  we 
may  receive  the  benefit  of  the  fifth  section, 
by  which  five  per  cent,  of  the  net  proceeds 
of  the  public  lands  are  granted  to  ike  State  to 
be  disposed  of  by  the  Legislature. 
9 


i       There  is  one  point  in  the  fifth  section  which 

i  should  be  looked  at,  and  that  is  this : 

I 

j       "Provided,  The  foregoing  propositions  herein 

I  offered  are  on  the  condition  that  the    said  Con- 

I  vention  which  shall  form  the  Constitution  of  said 

i   State  shall  provide,  bv  a  clause  in  said  Constitu- 

'  tion,  or  an  ordinance,  irrevocable  without  the  con- 

I  sent  of  the  United  States,  that  said  State  shall 

•  never  interfere  with  the  primary  disposal  of  the 

I  soil  \vithin  the  same,  by  the  United  States,  &c" 

It  seems  to  me  that  this  clause  leaves  it 
;  discretionary   with  us  as  to  the  manner  in 
I  which  it  shall  be  complied  with,  whether  by 
I  a  clause  in  the  Constitution,  or  by  an  ordi- 
1  nance.     It    was    contended  yesterday    that 
!  this  Convention  had  no  right  to  pass  an  ordi- 
nance.    It  seems  to  me  otherwise.     If   we 
I  do  so,  we  avail  ourselves  of  the  immediate 
!  benefit  of  the  five  per  cent,  provision,  because 
the  ordinance  will  go  into  efiect  immediately 
upon  its  passage,  and  notice  given  of  it  to 
the  Commissioner  of  the  General  Land  Office. 
I  hope  the  resolution  will  be  adopted,  and  I 
know  of  no  more  appropriate  time  than  the 
present. 

Mr.  KING.  I  think  the  gentleman  is  mis- 
taken in  his  construction  of  the  proviso.  It 
provides  that  we  put  a  clause  in  the  Consti- 
tution, or  an  ordinance  in  the  Constitution. 
It  seems  to  me  that  the  compliance  must  ap- 
pear in  the  Constitiition,  and  we  shall  get  no 
benefit  of  the  five  per  cent,  fund  imtil  the 
Constitution  is  adopted. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  I  move  that  the  reso- 
lution be  laid  on  the  table.  My  object  is  to 
have  it  referred  to  one  of  the  standing  com- 
mittees, when  they  are  appointed. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to,  And  the  resolu- 
tion was  laid  upon  the  table. 

On  motion  of  Mr.  HARDING,  (at  12 
o'clock  and  30  minutes)  the  Convention  took 
a  recess  until  2  o'clock. 

AFTERNOON  SESSION. 
The  Convention  was  called  to    order    at 
two  o'clock: 

TAKING   OF   THE   CENSUS. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL  on  leave  offered  the 
following  resolution : 

"  Besolved,  That  a  Committee  of  three  be  ap- 
pointed to  wait  upon  the  United  States  Marshal, 
and  ascertain  if  any  steps  are  being  taken  by  him 
in  regard  to  the  taking  of  the  census,  and  if  so, 
at  what  time  in  his  judgment,  he  will  be  able  to 
lay  the  same  before  the  committee." 


66 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Saturday,  July  18. 


Mr.  C.  said:  I  wish  to  say  that  in  my 
judgment  it  would  not  be  improper  for  this 
Convention  to  ascertain  what  action  the  United 
States  Marshal  intends  to  take  in  regard  to 
the  census.  For  that  reason  I  hope  the  rules 
will  be  suspended  and  that  this  resolution  will 
be  acted  on  to-day. 

The  rules  were  not  suspended  and  the  reso- 
lution was  laid  over  imder  the  rules.      , 

Mr.  ROBBINS  moved  that  the  Convention 
adjourn. 

The  motion  was  not  agreed  to. 

Mr.  NORTH.  I  would  suggest  that  the 
Convention  adjourn  over  until  Monday  at  11 
o'clock  in  order  to  give  those  who  do  not 
reside  at  any  great  distance  time  to  go  home. 

Mr.  HAYDEN.  I  do  not  think  that  it 
would  be  wise  for  the  Convention  to  take  that 
course. 

Mr.  NORTH.  Very  well,  I  wiU  not  make 
the  motion. 

The  Convention  then  adjourned  until  to- 
inorrow  at  11  o'clock,  a.  m. 


SIXTH  DAY. 

Saturday,  July  18,  1857. 
The  Convention  met  at  11  o'dock. 
Prayer  by  the  Chaplain,  Rev.  E.  D.  Neii.l. 
The  Journal  of  yesterday  was  read  and 
-approved. 

BEPOBTING. 

Mr.  NORTH.  The  committee  having 
•charge  of  the  matter  of  employing  a  reporter 
'beg  leave  to  report : 

"That  after  jpnferring  with  several  gentlemen 
'upon  the  subject,  they  have  received  a  proposition 
from  Mr.  Anduews  to  take  a  full  report  of  the  de- 
bates and  proceedings  of  the  Convention  at  the 
■rate  of  $6.25,  per  one  thousand  words.  The  com- 
mittee have  become  satisfied  that  it  is  the  best  ar- 
rangement they  can  make,  and  therefore  submit 
the  following  resolution : 

Resolved,  That  Thkodork  F.  Andrews,  Esq.,  be 
employed  to  take  a  full  report  of  the  proceedings 
of  this  Convention,  and  that  he  be  allowed  $0.25 
per  thousand  words  for  taking  such  report. 

The  resolution  was  adopted. 

ACCEPTANCE    OF   UNITED    STATES   PKOPOSITIONS. 

Mr.  PERKINS.  I  have  a  resolution  wliich 
I  wisli  to  offer  as  a  substitute  for  the  one 
-offered  yesterday,  which,  if  I  recollect  it,  pro- 
posed to  provide  an  ordinance  accepting  thq 


propositions  of  the  Enabling  Act.  Some 
questions  were  raised  at  that  time  as  to  the 
meaning  of  the  Enabling  Act.  For  the  pur- 
pose of  silencing  any  questions  of  that  kind, 
I  propose  to  introduce  the  resolution  in  a  little 
different  shape.  I  move  this  as  a  substitute : 
"Eesolved,  That  -there  be  incorporated  into  the 
Constitution  of  the  State  of  Minnesota  to  be  framed 
by  this  Convention,  a  clause,  irrevocable  withoirt 
the  consent  of  the  United  States,  '  That  the  said 
State  shall  never  interfere  with  the  primary  dis- 
posal of  the  soil  within  the  same  by  the  United 
States,  or  with  any  regulations  Congress  may  find 
necessary  for  the  securing  the  title  in  said  soil  to 
'bonafide  purchasers  thereof;  and  that  no  tax  shall 
be  imposed  on  lands  belonging  to  the  United 
States ;  and  that  in  no  case  shall  non-resident  pro- 
prietors be  taxed  higher  than  residents.'  " 

It  seems  to  me  this  is  all  the  Convention 
need  do  now,  and  it  seems  to  me  that  the  Con- 
vention may  and  should  insert  such  a  provis- 
ion in  the  Constitution.  As  far  as  the  power 
of  the  Convention  to  form  an  ordinance  out- 
side the  Constitution  is  concerned,  this  will 
obviate  the  necessity  of  any  such  ordinance. 
I  suppose  the  resolution  will  be  referred  to 
some  one  of  the  standing  committees  with 
instructions  to  report  such  a  clause  to  be 
inserted  in  the  Constitution.  -J  think  this  is 
the  safest  and  best  way  of  prAeding. 

Mr.  FOSTER.  I  submit  whether  this  reso- 
lution had  not  better  lie  over  until  the  other 
resolution  on  the  same  subject  comes  up  for 
consideration.  I  am  afraid  we  shall  shingle 
our  journal  all  over  in  different  spots  with 
these  resolutions,  without  making  a  good  roof 
any  where. 

The  PRESIDENT.  The  resolution  having 
given  rise  to  debate,  lies  over  under  the  rule. 

ELIGIBILITY   OF   CERTAIN   MEMBERS    ELECT. 

Mr.  COG G SWELL  called  up  for  consider- 
iition,  the  resolution  of  inquiry  offered  by  him 
yesterday,  in  reference  to  the  election  of  per- 
sons to  this  Convention  who  held  commis- 
sions from  the  United  States  Government,  &c. 

Mr.  HARDING  moved  to  lay  the  resolution 
on  the  tiiblc. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to. 

CENSUS   OF   MINNESOTA. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL  then  caUed  for  tlie  con- 
sideration of  a  resolution  offered  yesterday, 
for  the  appointment  of  a  committee  to  wait 
upon  the  Marshal  of  the  Territory  to  make 


MINNESOTA  C0N\T:NTI0N  DEBATES— Saturday,  July  18. 


er 


certain   inquiries  in  reference  to  taking  the 
census  of  the  Territory. 

The  resolution  was  read. 

^[r.  FOSTER  moved  to  lay  the  resolution 
on  the  table. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  For  my  own  part  I 
cannot  see  any  reason  why  the  resolution 
should  he  over  until  Monday.  If  there  is  any 
reason,  I  should  like  to  hear  it  stated.  It 
seems  to  me  necessary  for  the  Convention  to 
have  the  census  of  the  Territoiy  in  order  that 
they  may  discharge  theu*  duties  in  a  proper, 
correct  and  impartial  manner.  The  Enabling 
Act  makes  it  the  duty  of  the  United  States 
Marshal,  as  soon  as  the  Constitutional  Con- 
vention shall  have  passed  a  resolution  declar- 
ing it  to  be  the  wish  of  the  people  of  the  pro- 
posed State  to  come  into  the  Union,  to  imme- 
diately cause  a  census  to  be  taken.  That 
resolution  has  been  passed  by  the  Constitu- 
tional Convention,  and  a  copy  of  it  has  been 
transmitted  to  the  Secretary  of  the  Interior, 
and  also  to  the  United  States  Marshal.  "We 
need  that  census  to  act  upon  in  carving  out 
our  State  representative,  our  State  senatorial,^ 
and  our  representative  districts.  We  cannot 
adjourn  and  carry  a  Constitution  home  to  our 
constituents,  ,\mtil  we  have  that  knowledge, 
or  knowledge  which  will  answer  the  same 
purpose. 

It  has  been  suggested  by  certain  members 
of  the  Convention  that  the  object  of  Congress 
in  directing  the  Marshal  to  take  the  census 
was  simply  and  solely  that  we  might  ascer- 
tain how  many  representatives  we  were  enti- 
tled to  in  Congress,  and  that  we  can  arrange 
that  matter  just  exactly  as  well  without  the  cen- 
sus as  with  it.  I  do  not  understand  it  to  be  so. 
I  do  not  understand  that  to  be  the  sole  object 
of  Congress.  But  admit  for  the  sake  of  the 
argument  that  it  was ;  now  according  to  offi- 
cial documents  which  have  been  placed  be- 
'  fore  the  people,  emanating  from  the  Governor 
we  are  entitled,  to  say  the  least,  to  two  mem- 
bers of  Congress.  If  we  are  entitled  to  two 
members,  of  course  it  is  the  duty  of  this  Con- 
vention to  carve  out  tliose  two  Congressional 
districts.  Such  was  the  course  pm-sued  in 
Wisconsin,  Indiana,  Alabama,  Iowa,  Illinois, 
and  by  all  other  Conventions  which  have  as- 
sembled imder  Enabling  Acts  like  om"s.  If 
it  is  our  duty  to  carve  out  those  districts,  and 
make  them  a  part  and  parcel  of  our  Consti- 


tution, it  seems  to  me  that  we  can  come  to 
no  other  conclusion  than  that  it  is  indispensa- 
bly necessary  for  the  Convention  to  ascertain 
whether  the  census  has  been,  or  is  to  be  tak- 
en. If  it  is  not  to  be  taken,  we  want  to  know 
it.  Why '?  That  we  may  resort  to  tlie  next 
best  course  to  ascertain  about  what  our  pop- 
ulation is.  If  it  is  to  be  taken,  we  want  to 
kno^  that  fact,  and  what  the  probability  is  as 
to  the  time  when  the  returns  can  be  present- 
ed to  this  body. 

Now,  as  an  individual,  I  know  that  certain 
steps  are  being  taken  by  the  Marshal.  I 
know  that  certain  individuals  have  been  in 
this  town  for  the  purpose  of  receiving  orders 
and  directions  in  regard  to  the  discharge  of 
their  duties  in  that  respect.  I  know  that 
individuals  havB  already  gone  from  this  town 
with  instructions  to  enter  \ipon  that  work 
about  the  first  of  August.  It  seems  to  toe 
not  improper  that  this  Convention  should 
call  upon  the  Marshal  and  ask  him,  in  a 
respectful  manner,  what  steps  he  has  taken 
for  the  purpose  of  laying  that  information 
before  us,  and  what  the  probabihties  of  his 
success.  K  we  do  it  at  all,  we  ought  to  do 
it  at  once,  so  that  we  may  proceed  to  the 
discharge  of  our  duties.  If  the  census  is  to 
be  laid  before  us  in  three,  foiu",  or  five  weeks, 
it  is  our  duty  to  take  steps  to  place  the  Con- 
vention in  a  condition  to  avail  themselves  of 
it.  If  this  censiis  is  not  to  be  taken,  let  us- 
proceed  at  once  to  form  a  Constitution  and 
carve  out  our  districts  according  to  the  best 
information  we  can  obtain,  and  authorize  the 
President  of  this  Convention  to  issue  writs, 
for  the  election  of  whatever  officers  should 
be  elected,  according  to  the  best  information 
we  can  obtain. 

Mr.  HUDSON.  It  might  after  a  time, 
perhaps,  be  necessary  to  wait  upon  the  Mar- 
shal and  ascertain  at  what  time  the  necessary 
returns  can  be  had,  but  at  present  it  does 
not  seem  to  me  right  and  proper  to  appoint 
a  committee  to  call  upon  that  officer  and 
ascertain  whether  he  proposes  to  do  his  duty. 
If  Congress  has  provided  that  he  shall  do  a 
certain  thing  at  a  certain  time,  we  are  bound 
to  believe  that  he  will  do  it,  and  do  it  as 
expeditiously  as  possible.  He  cannot  prob- 
ably inform  us,  at  present,  how  soon  it  can 
be  effected. 

Mr.  HAYDEN.    1  move  that  the  resolu- 


68 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Monday,  July  20. 


tion  be  laid  on  the  table  and  made  the  special 
order  for  Monday  next  at  two  o'clock. 

Mr.  FOSTER.  I  think  we  had  better  not 
be  in  haste  in  pressing  this  matter  at  this 
time.  The  resolution  proposes  to  appoint  a 
committee  to  await  upon  the  Marshal.  Well, 
sir,  the  Marshal  is  a  very  excellent  man  I 
believe,  and  a  good  officer.  But,  sir,  this 
Convention  represents  the  people  of  Minne- 
sota, and  I  am  not  ready  at  this  time  to  stoop 
from  the  pedestal  on  which  we  stand  to  await 
on  him  and  ask  him  if  he  intends  to  perform 
his  duty.  The  terms  of  the  Enabling  Act 
make  him  an  inferior  officer  to  act  under  the 
direction  of  the  Secretary  of  the  Interior. 
The  Secretary  of  the  Convention  has  notified 
him  that  the  Convention  has  decided  in  favor 
of  the  immediate  admission  of  the  State  into 
the  Union.  We  have  complied  with  the  law, 
and  I  think  we  had  better  not  proceed  further 
at  present.  At  all  events  there  can  be  no 
objection  to  a  short  postponement.  I  move 
that  the  Convention  adjourn  until  Monday 
next  at  11  o'clock,  a.  m. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to,  and  thereupon 
at  fifteen  minutes  past  12  o'clock,  the  Con- 
vention adjourned. 


SEVENTH  DAY. 

Monday,  July  20,  1857. 
The  Convention  met  at  11  o'clock,  a.  m. 
Prayer  by  the  Chaplain,  Rev,  E.  D.  Neill. 
The  Journal  of  Saturday  was  read  and  ap- 
proved. 

STANDING   COMMITTEES. 

The  PRESIDENT,  in  pursuance  of  the 
resolution  of  Friday  last  announced  the  fol- 
lowing standing  committees : 

On  PrearrH)U  and  Bill  of  Bights — Messrs.  CoGOS- 
WELL,  Watson,  Winell,  Smith  and  Messeb. 

On  the  Legislative  Department — Messrs.  North, 
PcTNAM,  Anderson,  Aier,  Stannahd,  Sheldon 
and  FoLsoM. 

On  the  Executive  Department — Messrs.  Aldricb, 
Vaughn,  Haydkn,  Morgan  and  Ode. 

On  JSoundaries — Messrs.  Perkins,  Putnam,  Wil- 
son, Stannard  and  Harding. 

On  State  Officers  other  than  Executive — Messrs. 
Billings,  Hatden,  Kino,  Kemp  and  Cleohorn. 

On  the  Judiciary  Department — Messrs.  Wilson, 
Oalbbaith,  Killings,  North,  McClurb,  Stannard 
and  McCann. 


On  Organization  and  Government  of  Cities,  and 
Villages — Messrs.  Morgan,  Murphy,  Eschlie,  Mc- 
Clure,  and  Hall. 

On  Salaries — Messrs.  Kemp,  King,  Bolles,  Dick- 
ERSON  and  Watsox. 

On  County  and  Township  Organization — Messrs. 
Thompson,  Russell,  Wxnell,  Baldwin  and  Ceder- 

STAM. 

On  tlie  Elective  Francliise — Messrs.  Cederstam, 
Wilson,  Eschlie,  Harding  and  North. 

On  Finance,  Taxation  and  Public  Debt — Messrs. 
Stannard,  Peckham,  Holley,  Hall  and  Dicker- 
son. 

On  Educational  Institutions  and  Interests — 
Messrs.  Messer,  Baldwin,  Thompson,  Gerrish, 
McClure  and  Mills. 

On  Banhing  and  Corporations  other  than  Muni- 
cipal— Messrs.  Colburn,  Aldrich,  Bates,  Bolles, 
Thompson,  Secombe  and  McClure. 

On  Exemption  of  Heal  and  Personal  Estate,  and 
the  Rights  of  31arried  Women — Messrs.  Smith, 
Phelps,  Peckham,  Lyle  and  Ayer. 

On  the  Punishment  of  Crimes — Messrs.  Davis, 
Duley,  Butler,  Lowe  and  Morgan. 

On  Amending  and  Revising  the  Constitution — 
Messrs.  Holley,  Hanson,  Coombs,  Hudson  and 
Vaughn. 

On  Internal  Improvements — Messrs.  Robbins, 
Hanson,  Maxtor,  Walker  and  Perkins. 

On  Impeachments  and  Removal  from  Office — 
Messrs.  Messer,  Folsom,  Lowe  and  Galbraith. 

On  Public  Property  and  Expenditures — Messrs. 
Secombe,  Phelps,  Murphy,  Mills  and  McKune. 

On  Miscellaneous  Provisiions — Messrs.  Galbraith, 
McCann,  McKune,  Davis  and  Coe. 

On  the  Arrangement  and  Phraseology  of  tlie  Con- 
stitution— Messrs.  McClure,  Anderson,  Foster, 
Bates  and  North. 

On  Schedule — Messrs.  Foster,  Cogcswell,  Hud- 
son, Robbins  and  Sheldon. 

On  Printing — Messrs.  Foster,  Duley  and  Rus- 
sell. 

On  Supplies  and  Expenditures — Messrs.  Aldrich, 
Gerrish,  North,  Butler  and  Lyle. 

On  Elections  and  Credentials — Messrs.  Gal- 
braith, Cleghorn,  Coombs,  Messer  and  Walker. 

On  the  Militia — Messrs.  Mantor,  Bartholomew, 
and  Colburn. 

The  PRESIDBifT  then  proceeded  to  call 
the  order  of  business,  and  under  that  call 
the  following  resolutions  laying  on  the  table 
were  taken  up  for.  consideration. 

The  resolution  offered  on  Saturday  last,  by 
Mr.  Perkins,  in  reference  to  incorporating 
into  the  Constitution  a  clause  complying  with 
the  proviso  contained  in  the  fifth  section  of  the 
Enabling  Act. 

On  motion  of  Mr.  GALBRAITH,  the  res- 
olution was  referred  to  the  committee  on 
MiscoUanenuR  Business. 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Monday,  July  20. 


«9 


CEXSCS   OP   THE   TEBEITOBY. 

The  next  resolution  in  order  was  the  reso- 
lution for  the  appointment  of  a  committee  to 
wait  upon  the  Marshal  to  make  certain  ruqui- 
ries  in  regard  to  taking  the  census. 

The  resolution  was  read. 

Mr.  FOSTER.  I  trust  that  resolution  will 
not  be  adopted.  I  do  not  think  it  is  exactiy 
the  thing  for  this  Convention  to  appoint  a 
committee  to  solicit  an  inferior  oflBcer  of  the 
government,  one  who,  by  the  terms  of  the 
law,  acts  under  the  Secretary  of  the  Interior, 
and  cannot  act  independently  of  him,  to 
perform  the  duties  which  he  is  required  by 
law  to  do.  To  do  so,  it  strikes  me,  would  be 
to  step  beyond  our  proper  bounds.  "We 
should  not  properly  represent  the  dignity  of 
the  people  of  Minnesota.  It  will  be  time 
enough  to  call  upon  him  when  we  ascertain 
that  he  is  not  doing  his  duty.  After  sufficient 
time  has  elapsed  to  see  whether  he  is  going 
on  to  take  the  census,  then  we  may  properly 
inquire  of  him  how  soon  we  may  expect  the 
census  returns  presented  to  us. 

Mr.  McCLURE.  I  move  to  amend  the 
resolution  by  striking  out  all  after  the  word 
"  ascertain  "  and  to  insert  in  lieu  thereof  the 
following — 

"At  what  time  in  his  judgment,  he  will  be  able 
to  complete  the  taking  the  census  of  the  Territory 
of  Minnesota." 

Mr.  FOSTER.  The  adoption  of  the  amend- 
ment will  put  the  thing  in  a  much  better 
shape  than  it  was  before,  but  still  I  remain 
of  the  opinion  that  we  had  better  not  make 
the  inquiry.  That  officer,  in  all  probability, 
would  tell  us  he  did  not  know ;  that  it  was  an 
uncertain  matter  depending  upon  the  instruc- 
tions he  should  receive  from  his  superiors  at 
Washington.  I  understand  he  has  already 
answered,  in  that  way,  inquiries  which  have 
been  made  by  individual  members  of  the 
Convention.  I  shall  vote  for  the  amendment, 
and  then  shall  vote  against  the  whole  propo- 
sition. 

Mr.  WILSON.  I  think,  vriih  my  friend 
who  has  just  taken  his  seat,  that  if  we  make 
a  call  upon  the  Marshal  we  shall  not  know 
any  more  about  it,  after  we  receive  his  an- 
swer than  before.  This  Convention  cannot 
act  upon  any  information  it  may  ascertain  in 
that  way.  I  do  not  mean  to  impute  any- 
thing wrong  to  the  Marshal.     Every  member 


of  the  Convention  knows  that  the  Marshal 
himself  cannot  tell,  and  if  he  could,  he  would 
not  probably  be  very  anxious  to  give  us  any 
information  beyond  what  he  is  required  to 
give.  Every  man  here  who  knows  the  pres- 
ent state  of  tilings,  knows  that  we  will  not 
receive  any  reliable  information,  first,  because 
the  Marshal  himself  does  not  know,  and  sec- 
ond, l^ecause  he  would  not  tliink  we  have 
any  business  to  make  the  inquiry  of  him. 
When  we  absolutely  know  that  we  cannot  get 
any .  information,  I  do  not  think  it  best  to 
make  the  inquiry. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  am  in  favor  of  the 
amendment  for  the  reason  that  it  is  one  of 
the  duties  of  this  Convention  to  apportion  the 
future  State  of  Minnesota  for  legislative,  judi- 
cial, and  perhaps  other  purposes.  If  we  can 
get  the  census  contemplated  by  the  Enabling 
Act  laid  before  us,  it  would  be  the  best  basis 
we  could  have  for  that  apportionment.  If 
we  are  not  to  have  it,  it  will  become  incum- 
bent on  us  to  take  some  measures  to  procure 
the  basis  otherwise.  It  seems  to  me  proper 
for  tliis  Convention  to  ascertain  at  the  earli- 
est moment  whether  there  is  a  probability  of 
our  having  the  benefit  of  the  United  States 
census  to  aid  us  in  our  labors. 

Mr.  McCLURE.  I  cannot  conceive  how 
this  Convention  is  to  lower  its  dignity  by 
making  this  inquiry.  Now  my  amendment 
proceeds  upon  the  supposition  that  the  Mar- 
shal intends  to  do  just  what  he  is  required  by 
law  to  do.  We  have  no  right,  as  a  Conven- 
vention,  to  presume  that  he  intends  anything 
else,  and  we  merely  ask  him  when,  in  his 
judgment,  the  result  can  be  laid  before  us. 

So  far  as  the  answer  we  may  receive  from 
him  is  concerned,  I  do  not  think  we  have  any 
right  to  presvmie  that  he  will  give  us  to  un- 
derstand that  it  is  none  of  our  business.  The 
government  officers  are  gentiemen  of  the 
highest  respectability,  courtesy  and  kindness, 
and  we  shall  receive  from  him  a  courteous 
answer.  Just  so  far  as  he  is  able  to  ascer- 
tain about  what  time  the  matter  will  be  com- 
pleted, he  will  inform  us.  As  gentlemen  have 
said,  it  will  be  absolutely  necessary  to  have 
some  information  upon  this  subject,  and  I  do 
not  know  of  any  better  way  than  to  get  the 
judgment  of  that  officer  as  to  the  probabilities 
of  his  furnishing  it.  I  hope  the  substitute 
will  be  adopted. 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Monday,  July  20. 


Mr.  STANNARD.  As  far  ns  I  am  ac- 
quainted with  the  individual  holding  the 
office  of  United  States  Marshal  of  this  Terri- 
tory, I  can  vouch  for  him  as  a  gentleAan  in 
every  respect ;  but,  sir,  it  seems  to  me  as  if 
this  proceeding  was  all  unnecessary.  The 
Enabling  Act  itself  says  that  the  Marshal  of 
the  Territory  of  Minnesota  shall  proceed  to 
take  the  census  of  the  Territory  under  such 
instructions  as  shall  be  given  by  the  Secre- 
tary of  the  Interior.  It  is  already  too  early 
for  us  ■  to  presume  that  the  Marshal  of  the 
Territory  has  received  any  instructions  from 
the  Secretary  of  the  Interior,  inasmuch  as 
any  instructions  from  him  must  await  the 
decision  of  this  Convention  relative  to  the 
wish  of  the  people  of  the  Territory  to  become 
a  State.  I  see  then  no  reason  why  we  should 
take  this  step  at  present. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  Being  the  mover  of 
this  resolution,  I  deem  it  my  duty  to  say  a 
few  words  in  regard  to  its  propriet}-,  and  also 
to  come  to  the  rescue  of  the  United  .States 
Marshal  to  a  certain  extent.  Now  I  say  I  do 
despise  this  idea  of  pre-supposing  that  an 
United  States  officer  is  not  a  gentleman,  and 
that  he  would  not  take  delight  in  furnishing 
us  with  such  information  as  may  be  within 
his  knowledge.  The  only  reasons  which  have 
been  urged  against  the  passage  of  this  resolu- 
tion are,  first,  that  we  have  no  right  to  ask  the 
United  States  Marshal  if  he  is  going  to  do  his 
duty.  It  seems  to  me  that  this  Convention 
has  a  perfect  right  to  ask  him  if  he  is  going  to 
do  that  which  the  law  requires  him  to  per- 
form— and  especially  so  under  the  circum- 
stances in  which  we  are  placed — and  that  it 
is  nothing  more  than  proper,  and  only  what 
we  owe  to  ourselves  and  to  our  constituents. 
Perhaps  there  might  be  circumstances  in 
which  it  would  be  improper  for  us  to  inquire 
whether  a  certain  officer  would  perform  his 
duty.  But  circumstances  alter  cases,  and  in 
my  judgment,  the  circumstances  in  which  we 
are  placed  at  the  present  time,  require  that  we 
should  ascertain  whether  he  is  going  to  do 
that  which  is  required  of  him  by  the  fourth 
section  of  the  Enabling  Act.  It  would  nei- 
ther lower  our  dignity,  nor  do  anything  wrong 
to  him. 

The  second  reason  is,  that  he  does  not 
know  himself,  and  therefore  he  cannot  inform 
us.     Perhaps  it  may  be  that   he  docs  not 


know.  I  do  not  pretend  to  say  that  he  does, 
but  I  think  it  can  be  satisfiictorily  shown  to 
members  of  this  Convention  that  instructions 
have  already  been  received  by  him  from  the 
Secretary  of  the  Inteiior  upon  the  presump- 
tion that  this  Convention  would  pass  a  vote 
affirming  that  it  is  the  wish  of  the  people  of 
the  proposed  State  of  Minnesota  to  come  into 
the  Union  as  a  State.  As  the  Enabling  Act 
does  not  require  the  Secretary  to  wait  vmtil 
such  a  vote  is  given,  there  seems  nothing  im- 
proper, on  his  part,  in  issuing  instructions 
based  upon  the  supposition  that  this  Conven- 
vention  would  pass  such  a  vote.  Neither 
would  such  a  course  be  anj-thing  unusual  or 
out  of  the  ordinary  course. 

Another  reason  urged  against  this  course  is 
that  even  though  the  Marshal  had  the  infor- 
mation, he  would  not  feel  inclined  to  furnish 
that  information  to  this  body.  I  do  not  be- 
lieve that  the  Marshal  is  any  such  kind  of  a 
man.  I  believe  he  would  furnish  it  to  us  as 
soon  as  to  any  other  body,  and  that  he  would 
take  delight  in  so  doing.  I  know  of  no  other 
source  to  go  to  for  this  information.  If  gen- 
tlemen will  tell  me  of  any  other  source,  I  am 
willing  to  apply  to  that.  But  the  Congress  of 
the  United  States  have  provided  a  source,  and 
that  source  is  the  United  States  Marshal.  In 
my  judgment,  steps  are  already  being  taken 
upon  his  part  for  the  purpose  of  accomplish- 
ing that  object ;  and  if  that  is  so,  he  will  in 
my  judgment,  readily  and  cheerfully  inform 
us.  As  an  individual  member,  I  am  desirous 
of  knowing  the  facts  in  regard  to  it,  so  that  I 
may  perform  my  duties  in  a  manner  satisfac- 
tory to  my  constituents. 

I  do  not  ask  the  passage  of  the  resolution 
simply  because  I  moved  it,  but  because  I 
believe  it  is  due  to  this  body ;  because  I  be- 
hove there  is  nothing  improper  in  it;  and 
because  I  believe  the  Marshal  liimself  would 
regard  it  as  a  pleasure  to  furnish  this  Con- 
vention with  all  the  information  which  lies  in 
his  power. 

Mr.  WILSON.  I  have  the  honor  to  be 
acquainted  with  the  United  States  Marshal, 
and  I  do  not  mean  to  intimate  that  he  will  do 
anytliing  which  is  not  in  accordance  with  hi.s 
duty,  nor  do  I  mean  to  say,  nor  do  I  sa3% 
that  he  is  not  a  gentleman ;  but  I  will  say  that 
a  resolution  that  asks  a  man  if  he  is  going  to 
do  his  duty,  implies  that  he  is  not  going  to  do 


M1^'NES0TA  CONVEXTiON  DEBATES— Monday,  Jlly  20. 


71 


his  duty ;  and  it  is  a  question  I  would  nev- 
er answer  to  any  man  so  long  as  I  were  a 
public  officer.  It  is  presumed  that  every 
man,  and  especially  every  government  officer, 
will  do  his  duty.  If,  as  gentlemen  say,  it  is 
his  duty  to  take  a  census  immediately,  and 
he  has  instructions  to  that  effect,  he  will  go 
on  and  do  his  duty. 

Now  when,  by  resolution,  we  as  a  body 
ask  for  anything,  it  should  be  because  the 
answer  to  that  resolution  would  enUghten  us 
as  a  body,  or  in  some  way  modify  our  action 
as  a  body ;  because  if  it  cannot  modify  our 
action,  we  have  no  right  to  ask  it.  If  the 
object  be  merely  individual  gratification,  let 
us  as  individuals,  call  upon  him.  Now  will 
our  action  as  a  Convention  be  modified  by 
any  answer  we  may  receive?  Not  at  all. 
Whatever  answer  may  be  received,  we  will 
take  the  same  course  as  a  body.  If  we  are 
not  going  to  be  influenced  by  the  answer, 
why  ask  for  anything.  It  is  a  0010*56  we 
ought  not  to  adopt.  "We  might  as  well  appoint 
a  committee  to  obtain  papers  which  are  not 
jiecessary. 

Again,  this  United  States  Marshal,  I  sup. 
pose  beyond  a  doubt,  beheves  that  we  are  no 
Constitutional  Convention,  and  if  we  call  upon 
him,  he  will  be  likely  to  treat  us  accordingly. 
He  will  treat  us  as  gentlemen,  certainly.  If 
1  were  an  officer,  believing  that  a  certain  set 
of  men  assembled  together  were  nothing  more 
than  a  town  meeting,  as  some  have  more  po- 
litely termed  us,  and  they  should  appoint  a 
committee  to  wait  upon  me  to  see  if  I  were 
going  to  take  a  census  as  such  officer,  I  would 
•treat  them  as  well  as  I  could,  but  I  should 
not  be  likely  to  inform  them  what  I  was  going 
to  do.  I  hope  the  resolution  will  not  be 
adopted. 

The  question  was  taken  oa  the  amendment, 
and  it  was  not  agreed  to. 

The  resolution  as  amended  was  then  disa- 
greed to. 

I.IMITATIOX    OF   DISCUSSIOX. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH  by  mianimous  consent, 
introduced  the  following  resolution : 

Besolced,  That  no  member  of  this  Conveution  be 
permitted  to  speak  for  a  longer  time  than  fifteen 
minutes,  nor  more  than  twice  upon  any  single  sub- 
ject, unless  by  the  unanimous  consent  of  the  Con- 
vention. 

Mr.  WILSON.  I  would  suggest  to  the 
gentleman  that  he  should  move  to  amend  the 


hour  rule  by  moving  to  strike  out  "  one 
hour,"  and  insert  "  fifteen  minutes." 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  I  have  no  objection  to 
accepting  such  a  substitute. 

Mr.  WILSON.  The  seventh  rule  now 
reads  as  follows : 

"  Xo  member  shall  speak  more  than  twice  on  the 
same  question,  nor  more  than  one  hour  at  any  one 
time  without  leave  of  the  Convention,  nor  more 
than  once  until  every  member  who  chooses  to  spealc 
shall  have  spoken." 

I  move  to  strike  out  the  words  "  one  hour," 
and  insert  "  fifteen  minutes." 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  I  accept  that  as  a 
substitute  for  my  motion. 

Mr.  ALDRIGH.  I  am  in  favor  of  inserting 
"  ten  minutes  "  in  the  place  of  "  fifteen  min- 
utes." As  a  general  thing,  I  can  say  all  I 
have  to  say  in  ten  minutes.  I  do  not  know 
how  it  may  be  Mith  others,  but  in  order  to 
test  the  question  I  move  that  amendment. 

Mr.  FOSTER.  I  am  not  myself  in  favor 
of  long  speeches,  and  I  do  not  think  any  one 
can  accuse  me  of  a  propensity  to  inflict  them. 
But  at  the  same  time  there  may  be  occasions 
in  tliis  body  when  the  production  of  docu- 
ments, and  the  making  of  arguments  upon 
important  principles  wUl  require  more  than 
ten  minutes,  and  I  am  unwilling  to  see  this 
reform  run  into  the  ground  in  this  way.  I 
think  a  fall  from  one  hour  to  fifteen  minutes  is 
a  pretty  good  descent.  It  is  often  said,  "/a- 
cilis  decenmis  acerni  " — the  downward  road  is 
very  easy ;  and  it  would  seem  so  in  this  case. 
I  think  a  Constitutional  Convention  is  for  de- 
bate to  a  certain  extent.  The  privilege  of 
speech  may  be  abused,  but  I  think  fifteen 
minutes  is  not  very  long,  and  it  certainly  is 
short  enough. 

Mr.  NORTH.  I  have  no  doubt  that  sub- 
jects will  be  introduced,  upon  which  we  shall 
want  to  talk  longer  tlian  ten  or  fifteen  min- 
utes, and  possibly,  in  the  progiess  of  the 
Convention,  individuals  may  want  an  hour. 
Should  such  occasions  arise,  perhaps  impor- 
tant questions  might  be  discussed  fi"eely  by 
unanimous  consent,  or  in  committee  of  the 
Whole.  As  a  general  thing  I  am  in  favor  of 
very  short  speeches  upon  matters  of  business, 
and  to  make  long  speeches  upon  every  ques- 
tion which  arises  in  which  only  a  word  or  two 
is  necessar}-,  I  do  not  tliink  to  be  good  policy. 
I  am  in  favor  of  the  ten  minute  rule.         * 


72 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Monday,  July  20. 


Mr.  GALBRAITH.  Upon  aU  questions 
of  serious  importance  I  have  no  doubt  the 
Convention  will  resolve  itself  into  a  com- 
mittee of  the  Whole,  when  there  will  be 
latitude  of  debate,  and  opportunity  for  eve- 
ry member  to  speak  as  he  desires.  But 
in  the  Convention  proper,  I  think  it  is  the 
general  opinion  of  this  body  that  it  would 
be  well  to  have  as  short  speeches  as  possible, 
and  have  them  pungent  and  to  the  point.  It 
will  compel  us  all  to  think  what  we  want  to 
say,  and  to  present  it  in  due  shape.  There 
is  no  doubt  that  irritants  fi'om  outside  sources 
will  be  applied  to  this  Convention,  and  one 
of  the  objects  of  this  motion  was  to  prevent 
us  from  noticing  any  of  them.  The  business 
is  our  own,  and  to  the  work  of  framing  a 
Constitution  we  should  apply  ourselves  assid- 
uously, and  with  a  will.  We  can  form  a  good 
Constitution,  as  we  have  the  material  in  the 
Convention,  and  we  have  plenty  of  good  pre- 
cedents by  which  to  guide  ourselves.  It 
seems  to  me  that  it  is  well  to  have  a  rule  con- 
fining ourselves  to  short  speeches.  Every 
member  will  know  when  the  subject  demands 
more  extended  remarks,  and  then  unanimous 
consent  can  be  given. 

Mr.  WILSON.  I  am  opposed  to  the  whole 
matter — amendment  and  all ;  but  as  I  sup- 
posed the  resolution  would  pass  I  proposed 
the  amendment  so  that  a  two-third  vote  could 
suspend  the  rule,  which  I  understand  would 
not  be  the  case  of  the  resolution  as  originally 
offered  had  passed.  Those  who  could  speak 
longest  in  this  Convention  are  those  whom  I 
am  most  anxious  to  hear,  and  who  could  not 
speak  without  giving  me  some  information. 

Mr.  AL|!>RICH.  I  presume  gentlemen  here 
will  act  courteously  towards  each  other,  and 
if  any  gentleman  desires  to  speak  more  than 
ten  minutes,  he  can  have  the  privilege  of  do- 
ing so  by  unanimous  consent.  I  am  willing 
to  extend  that  courtesy  if  gentlemen  desire  it. 

Mr.  WILSON.  I  suggest  that  no  gentle- 
man would  speak  longer  than  ten  minutes, 
unless  he  was  desirous  of  doing  so. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  I  concur  with  the 
gentleman  from  Winona  (Mr.  Wii-son)  in  his 
views  in  regard  to  this  matter.  I  for  one  am 
opposed  to  the  whole  arrangement.  The  Con- 
stitution of  the  Uniled  States  guarantees  to 
me  the  right  of  speech,  and  I  do  not  like  to 
have  a  Republican  Convention  undertake  to 


deprive  me  of  that  right.  And  not  only  that, 
but  it  seems  to  me  that  if  a  man  desu"es  to 
make  a  speech  he  should  be  heard.  If  I  want 
to  make  a  speech  longer  than  my  friend  Al- 
DRiCH  does,  I  should  be  allowed  that  privi- 
lege, and  if  he  wants  to  make  a  short  speech, 
I  will  not  insist  upon  his  making  a  long  one. 

Mr.  BILLINGS.  I  am  in  favor  of  freedom 
of  speech,  but  I  also  believe  in  the  equality 
of  the  rights  of  men.  It  was  never  intended 
that  a  certain  few  should  govern  the  rest  of 
mankind.  We  meet  as  equals,  to  work  and 
not  to  talk.  Most  men  will  condense  more 
thought  and  argument  with  a  ten  minutes 
speech,  if  they  are  compelled  to  confine  them- 
selves to  that  space  of  time,  than  they  would 
in  an  hour  under  the  present  rule. 

But  I  do  not  consider  the  length  of  time  so 
essential  as  I  do  another  part  of  the  rule,  and 
that  is  that  no  member  shall  speak  more  than 
once  until  all  others  shall  have  been  heard". 
Our  speeches  sometimes  remind  me  of  speeches 
of  pettifoggers  on  the  trial  of  a  cause.  One 
counsel  states  an  idea,  and  the  opposite  coun- 
sel wants  to  reply  to  the  frivolous  and  irrele- 
vent  matter,  and  the  debate  goes  off  entirely 
upon  points  which  have  nothing  to  do  with 
the  decision  of  the  case.  If  one  member 
takes  a  diSerent  view  from  what  I  do,  and  he 
answers  my  argument,  it  is  not  necessary  for 
me  to  defend  my  position,  but  some  other 
gentleman  can  do  it  for  me.  I  am  in  favor 
of  the  fifteen  minute  rule,  and  of  a  strict  ob- 
servance of  that  part  of  the  present  rule 
which  provides  that  members  who  have  once 
been  heard  shall  remain  silent  until  all  others 
shall  have  had  an  opportunity  of  being  heard. 

Mr.  MANTOR.  I  am  opposed  to  this 
whole  thing.  There  are  questions  of  grave 
and  vital  importance  to  come  before  this  de- 
liberative asser^bly,  and  I  am  not  in  favor  of 
regulating  the  mouths  of  the  members  of  this 
Convention  by  the  hands  of  that  clock,  but 
like  my  friend  near  me  (Mr.  Cogoswell)  I  am 
in  favor  of  liberty  of  speech.  If  a  man  can 
make  a  speech  in  ten  minutes  and  weigh  all 
matters  which  arise  on  these  important  mat- 
ters, we  can  say  "  well  done  good  and  faithful 
"  servant."  But  there  are  men  of  experi- 
ence in  this  body,  to  whose  opinions  I  should 
bow  with  deference,  and  to  whom,  upon  tho 
important  questions  which  will  be  discussed 
here,  I  should  be  willing  to  listen  sixty  min- 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Monday,  July  20. 


YS 


utes,  and  six  time  sixty  if  necessary.  It  is 
important  and  necessary  that  we  should  have 
all  the  light  and  information  possible,  upon 
these  questions,  and  how  shall  we  get  them  ? 
By  this  ten  mhiute  rule?  Certainly  not. 
But  gentlemen  say  they  will  extend  the  time, 
and  give  ten  minutes  longer.  But  we  find 
ourselves  involved  in  this  dificulty,  after  a 
gentleman  has  spoken  ten  minutes  he  looks 
at  the  clock,  and  then  gazes  around  this  delib- 
erate assembly  with  an  inquiring  look,  seem- 
ing to  ask  "  gentlemen  are  you  willing  that  I 
* '  should  speak  ten  minutes  longer  ?' '  It  looks 
to  me  like  the  height  of  folly.  I  have  heard 
gentlemen  here  to-day,  who  can  make  good 
speeches,  say  they  would  consent  to  a  fifteen 
minute  rule.  They  might  be  content  to  be 
cut  oS,  but  the  Convention  might  not  be 
satisfied  to  have  them.  We  should  not  be 
too  hasty  in  oiu-  deliberations.  Conventions 
which  have  met  heretofore  for  the  simple 
revision  of  Constitutions,  have  had  sessions  of 
six  months.  If  it  is  from  the  hasty  disposition 
of  gentlemen  to  get  home  to  take  care  of  their 
crops  that  they  vote  for  the  ten  or  fifteen 
minute  rule,  this  Convention  might  as  well 
adopt  the  silent  rule,  and  content  themselves 
with  merely  giving  their  votes,  and  then  their 
object  would  be  soon  accomplished  and  they 
could  go  home. 

Mr.  NORTH.  I  suppose  it  is  the  right-  of 
every  gentleman  to  make  as  long  speeches  as 
he  desires  provided  he  does  not  infiinge  upon 
the  rights  of  any  one  else.  We  have  all  duties  to 
perform  and  while  some  claim  the  right  to  speak, 
others  claim  the  privile^  of  acting.  Should 
I  claim  the  right  to  make  a  long  speech  upon 
some  subject  in  which  I  felt  interested,  some 
gentleman  might  feel  restive  imder  it,  and  be 
anxious  to  proceed  to  business.  While  it  is 
my  privilege  to  express  my  ideas,  they  have 
rights  equal  to  mine.  The  people  want  a 
Constitution  made,  and  expect  us  to  make  it, 
and  I  believe  that  if  we  make  short  speeches 
we  shall  discharge  our  duties  better,  as  a  gen- 
eral thing,  upon  most  subjects  which  arise, 
than  we  should  by  making  long  speeches. 
When  we  have  reports  fi"om  committees  on 
important  subjects,  we  may  need  more  time 
for  discussion,  and  even  in  such  cases  vinless 
we  can  get  more  time  by  a  two-third  vote,  I 
say  cut  the  debates  short,  then.  K  the  Con- 
Tention  is  satisfied  that  more  time  is  needed, 
10 


they  will  grant  it.  Some  of  the  vrisest  men 
this  country  ever  boasted  of,  were  men  of  few 
words,  and  they  learned  to  condense  their 
thoughts  and  ideas  into  a  small  compass. 

Mr.  McCLURE.  It  strikes  me  that  it  is  a 
bad  role  that  don't  work  both  ways.  Some 
gentlemen  who  advocate  the  passage  of  this 
rule,  were  opposed  to  a  resolution  which  was 
discussed  to-day,  on  the  ground  that  it  cast 
the  reflection  upon  the  United  States  Marshal, 
that  he  would  not  do  his  duty.  Now,  it 
seems  to  me  it  casts  a  reflection  upon  this 
body  to  suppose  they  will  trespass  upon  the 
patience  of  this  House.  I  do  not  know  why 
gentlemen  come  to  the  conclusion  that  any 
individual  will  speak  longer  than  necessary. 
It  seems  to  me  that  when  the  Convention 
becomes  wearied  with  long  speeches,  that  will 
be  the  proper  time  to  attend  to  this  matter. 
Are  we  to  suppose  that  gentlemen  will  make 
speeches  when  nobody  desires  to  hear? 
When  that  time  comes,  then  I  shall  be  ready 
to  vote  for  such  a  proposition  as  this. 

Mr.  HAYDEN.  It  is  an  old  adage,  "  lock 
the  stable  before  the  horse  is  stolen."  I 
think  it  the  best  course  to  have  the  rule 
brought  down  to  a  reasonable  time  at  once. 
It  certainly  can  do  no  one  any  harm.  I 
should  rather  prefer  twenty  minutes,  but  still 
I  am  willing  to  go  with  my  fifiends  for  fifteen 
minutes. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  I  think  there  is  a  mis- 
taken opinion  as  to  the  modus  operandi  of  this 
resolution.  Its  object  is  only  to  save  the 
time  of  the  Convention  itself,  but  I  believe  it 
is  customary  in  all  deliberative  assemblies  to 
conduct  their  heavy  debates  in  committe  of 
the  Whole ;  and  there  this  rule  vriU  have  no 
operation. 

The  question  was  taken  on  the  amendment 
limiting  the  time  to  ten  minutes,  and  it  was 
not  agreed  to. 

The  original  motion  was  then  agreed  to. 

On  motion  of  Mr.  KING,  at  12  o'clock 
and  fifteen  minutes,  the  Convention  ad- 
journed until  two  o'clock. 

AFTERNOON  SESSION. 
I  The  Convention  was  called  to  order  at  3 
o'clock,  p.  M. 

CESSCS   OF   THE   TERRITORY. 

Mr.  PERKINS.  I  understand  that  it  is  im- 
portant that  this  Convention  should  have  tht 


74 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— MoxNdav,  July  20. 


census  of  this  Territory  before  they  adjourn, 
and  in  case  the  United  States  Marshal  should 
disregard  the  commands  of  this  Convention 
and  refuse  to  recognize  it  as  the  Constitutional 
Convention,  it  will  be  necessary  for  the  Con- 
vention to  take  some  other  steps  to  procure 
an  enumeration  of  the  inhabitants.  The  cen- 
sus should  be  upon  the  files  of  the  Secretary's 
office,  if  the  Territorial  officers  have  per- 
formed their  duties.  If  they  have  done  their 
duty,  I  think  we  need  not  depend  upon  the 
United  States  Marshal  or  any  body  else.  I 
oflfer  the  following  resolution : 

"  Besolved,  That  a  committee  of  three  be 
appointed  to  ascertain  wLether  the  several  assess- 
ors in  the  Territory  have  filed  with  the  Secretary 
of  the  same,  lists  of  the  inhabitants  of  their 
respective  districts,  according  to  section  10,  article 
9,  and  chapter  8  of  the  Revised  Statutes ;  and  if 
60,  to  procure  a  certified  copy  of  such  lists  for  the 
use  of  this  Convention." 

If  the  assessors  have  done  their  duty,  a 
census  of  the  Territory  was  taken  in  June, 
and  the  returns  are  on  file  in  the  office  of  the 
Secretary  of  State. 

Mr.  DAVIS.  It  seems  to  me  that  the  res- 
olution is  a  little  premature.  It  takes  the 
ground  in  the  first  place  that  the  Marshal  of 
the  Territory  will  not  do  his  duty,  and  that 
we  must  as  a  matter  of  necessity  look  to  tliis 
course,  in  order  to  find  out  the  population  of 
the  Territory.  It  seems  to  me  that  it  would 
be  better  to  wait  until  we  ascertain  that  we 
are  to  have  no  census  taken  by  the  proper 
authority,  and  then  it  will  be  time  enough  to 
resort  to  other  means  to  obtain  the  informa- 
tion.    I  object  to  the  resolution. 

The  resolution  giving  rise  to  debate,  was 
laid  over  under  the  rules. 

Mr.  KING.  I  ofifer  the  following  resolu- 
tion: 

"Besolved,  That  the  committee  on  Elections 
be  instructed  to  insert  a  registry  clause  requiring 
all  legal  voters  to  have  their  names  registered  in 
the  county  records  of  the  county  in  which  they 
live;  to  receive  a  certificate  of  registry  stating  the 
date,  book,  and  page  containing  said  registry,  and 
without  which  no  vote  will  be  received  wlieu  chal- 
lenged— said  clerk  to  be  paid  by  State  reve- 
nue." 

The  object  of  my  resolution  is  simply  lb 
incite  inquiry  in  the  minds  of  members  as  to 
the  best  mode  of  preventing  frauds  in  elec- 
tiong.  As  matters  now  are,  we  all  know  that 
it  is  difficult  to  ascertain  a  man's  right  to 


vote  where  there  are  so  many  strangers  com- 
ing and  going.  There  might  be  an  additional 
provision  requiring  every  man's  certificate  to 
be  filed  in  the  ward,  precinct,  or  district  in 
which  he  proposes  to  vote,  or  that  there  be  a 
file  of  those  certificates  furnished  to  the 
Judges  of  Election  in  each  precinct. 

The  resolution  was  laid  over  under  the 
rules. 

ONE   DAILY   SESSION. 

Mr.  COLBURN.     I  oifer  the  following  : 

"Besolved,  Tliat  this  Convention  hold  but  one 
session  per  day,  and  that  the  hour  of  meeting  be 
9  o'clock,  until  otherwise  ordered." 

Mr.  FOSTER.  Would  it  not  be  wise  to 
regulate  that  matter  from  day  to  day  as  cir- 
cumstances may  require  ?  I  think  we  had 
better  take  no  action  upon  it  at  the  present 
time. 

The  resolution  was  laid  over  under  the 
rules. 

ORGANIZATION   OF   THE   CONVENTION. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  If  there  is  no  other 
business  before  the  Convention  at  this  time, 
I  ask  unanimous  consent  to  make  a  brief 
statement  of  facts,  connected  with  myself  as 
a  member  of  this  Convention,  knd  the  Con- 
vention itself  as  a  body.  (Cries  of  "leave, 
leave.")  I  received  a  letter  this  morning  from 
one  of  my  constituents  residing  in  Steele 
County,  stating  that  a  report  had  been  circu- 
lated in  that  section  of  the  country-,  that  the 
Republican  members  of  this  Convention  had 
made  an  agreement  with  the  Democratic  mem- 
bers, not  to  attempt  to  organize  until  12 
o'clock,  M.,  on  the  13tli  instant ;  that  the  Re- 
publican members  had  violated  that  contract, 
and  had  organized  at  half  past  11  o'clock,  in 
the  forenoon  ;  liad  taken  forcible  possession 
of  the  Hall  of  the  House  of  Representatives, 
and  refused  to  allow  the  Democratic  members 
their  seats  in  Convention.  The  question  was 
asked  me  whether  tliat  statement  was  true. 

As  it  is  impossible  for  me  to  answer  him  in 
such  a  manner  tliat  all  my  constituents  may 
know  my  views,  I  desire  to  give  here  my 
understanding  of  the  whole  transaction  from 
begining  to  end.  And  I  wish  it  distinctly 
understood  by  every  member  of  the  Conven- 
tion, that  whatever  remarks  I  make,  I  shall 
make  them  upon  my  own  responsibility ;  and 
if  they  do  not  meet  the  ooncurrenco  of  other 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Mont)ay,  July  20. 


gentlemen,  I  ask  that  they  may  be  entirely 
absolved  from  responsibility. 

I  propose  to  speak,  in  the  first  place,  of 
the  arrangement  which  was  made  between 
the  Republicans  and  the  Democrats  as  to  the 
time  of  the  organization  of  this  Convention, 
and  the  time  when  the  Republicans  came  into 
this  building,  and  in  what  manner,  and  for 
what  purpose. 

Second :  I  propose  to  speak  "of  the  rights  of 
the  Secretary  of  the  Territory  of  Minnesota 
as  such  when  he  undertakes  to  organize  a 
Constitutional  Convention  under  our  Enabling 
Act,  and  of  his  rights  as  a  member  of  this 
Convention. 

Third:  I  propose  to  speak  of  the  precedents 
which  have  come  within  my  knowledge  in 
regard  to  the  right  of  such  an  ofBcer  to  call  a 
body  of  this  kind  to  order ;  and  the  rights  of 
members  holding  certificates  of  election  which 
are  fair  upon  their  face,  to  participate  in  the 
temporary  organization  of  such  a  Convention. 

First :  as  to  the  agreement  which  was  made 
between  the  Democratic  and  Republican 
members  of  this  body.  I  arrived  in  this  city 
late  on  Saturday  night  of  the  11th  inst.,  and 
ascertained  that  a  caucus  had  been  held  by 
the  Republican  members  who  had  reached 
here  earher,  at  which  it  was  resolved  that  no 
attempt  should  be  made  to  organize  this  Con- 
vention on  their  part,  until  the  Democratic 
members  had  been  consulted  and  their  wishes 
made  known.  I  was  not  at  that  caucus,  and 
as  a  matter  of  course,  what  transpired  there 
is  a  matter  of  hearsay  with  me.  I  do  know, 
however,  that  there  was  a  statement  to  that 
efiect,  which  was  reduced  to  writing  and 
signed  by  certain  Republican  members  of 
Ms  Convention,  and  handed  to  certain  Dem- 
ocratic members  with  the  understanding  that 
they  should  sign  and  return  the  same.  And 
I  am  justified  in  saying  that  instead  of  that 
instrument  being  signed  and  returned,  an- 
other proposition  was  returned,  which  is  in 
these  words: 

"  Gexts  : — The  Democratic  members  of  the 
Constitutional  Convention  now  present,  will  be 
governed  as  to  time  and  place  of  meeting  of  said 
Convention  by  the  usual  rules  governing  parlia- 
mentary bodies  in  the  United  States. 

(Signed)  M.  SHERBURNE, 

C.  L.  CHASE, 
W.  A.  GORMAN. 
To  Messrs.  Balcoxbb  and  others." 


Now,  sir,  if  I  understand  the  "  usual"  hour 
of  meeting  of  Constitutional  bodies  of  this 
kind,  it  varies  in  different  States ;  and  when 
this  paper  was  returned  to  the  Republican 
members  who  had  signed  the  first  proposition, 
the  idea  struck  them,  and  not  only  struck 
them,  but  others  who  heard  that  answer  read, 
that  it  would  admit  of  some  littie  doubt  of 
construction,  and  that  it  was  not  exactiy  in 
accordance  with  good  faith  to  say  the  least  of 
it,  to  withliold  the  original  docimient  and  re- 
turn one  in  its  place  which  could  be  construed 
as  circumstances  might  reqviire.  After  con- 
sultation with  various  RepubUcan  members 
of  the  Convention  who  were  here,  it  appeared 
to  be  the  unanimous  conclusion  that  near  the 
hour  of  12  o'clock  on  the  morning  of  the  13th, 
the  Republican  members  should  come  into 
this  Hall  or  this  Capitol,  not  for  the  purpose  of 
organizing  the  Convention,  but  for  the  pur- 
pose of  preventing  the  Democratic  members 
from  organizing  it  without  ovur  knowledge  or 
concurrence.  And,  sir,  here  I  wish  it  dis- 
tinctly understood,  that  our  sole  object  for 
so  doing  was  to  prevent  our  being  taken  by 
surprise. 

We  believed  in  guarding  well  the  outposts 
that  the  citadel  might  be  safe. 

I  do  not  know  the  exact  hour  when  other 
members  came  in  here,  but  about  the  hour  of 
one  o'clock  on  that  morning  I  came  into  this 
building,  and  went  into  the  Council  Chamber, 
where  I  found  a  considerable  nimiber  of  Re- 
pubUcan members  sitting  upon  seats,  and 
talking  upon  various  subjects.  We  remained 
there  (at  least  some  of  us)  in  an  unorganized 
condition  until  near  daylight,  when  I  left  the 
building  for  the  purpose  of  obtaining  my 
breakfast. 

I  know  nothing  of  what  took  place  after 
until  I  returned,  which  was  about  eight  o'clock, 
A.  IT.,  when  I  found  the  door  of  this  Hall 
open  and  several  Republican  members  here,  in 
an  unorganized  condition,  some  talking  about 
one  thing  and  some  another.  We  then,  most 
of  us  took  our  seats,  and  continued  in  them 
vmtil  about  a  quarter  before  twelve  o'clock,  m. 
About  that  time,  a  portion  of  the  Democratic 
members  came  into  the  Hall  in  a  body.  I 
will  not  say  how  many,  for  the  reason  that 
most  of  them  were  strangers  to  me — ^but  as 
soon  as  they  came  in  Mr.  Chase  rose  in  that 
desk,  rapped  upon  it,  and  called  the  Conven- 


Y6 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Mondat,  July  20. 


tion  to  order.  About  the  same  time  Mr  Noktii 
also  stepped  into  the  desk  and  called  the 
Convention  to  order ;  which  one  called  to  order 
first  I  will  not  pretend  to  say.  My  judgment 
is  that  there  were  but  few  seconds  differ- 
ence. What  motion  was  put,  I  will  not  pre- 
tend to  say,  for  the  confusion  and  noise  was 
so  great  I  could  not  tell,  but  I  heard  in  an- 
swer to  a  certain  noise,  pr  a  certain  sound 
which  I  supposed  emanated  from  the  lips  of 
Mr.  Chase,  a  kind  of  unanimous  expression 
from  the  Democratic  members,  in  regard  to 
adjournment.  As  soon  as  that  took  place, 
these  Democratic  members  left  the  Hall. 

Now,  sir,  I  wish  to  ask  every  member 
within  the  sound  of  my  voice,  if  they  did  not  un- 
derstand there  was  a  solemn  agreement  made 
between  the  Democratic  and  Republican  mem- 
bers of  this  Convention,  that  there  was  to  be 
no  attempt  at  organization  until  12  o'clock,  si., 
which  agreement  was  consummated  about  7 
o'clock  on  Monday  morning  ?  It  is  unneces- 
sary perhaps  for  the  members  who  were  here 
to  prove  that  there  was  a  contract  of  this 
kind,  but  for  the  benefit  of  my  constituents 
at  home,  I  will  prove  it,  and  prove  it  not  only 
by  a  WTiting  signed  by  their  leading  men,  but 
by  their  leading  organ  of  this  City.  First  I 
will  produce  the  writing,  which  is  in  these 
words : 

July  13,  1857. 
Besolved,  That  the  Democratic  members  of  the 
Constitutional  Convention  in  caucus,  do  hereby 
affirm  the  position  of  the  Democratic  members  last 
evening,  and  will  concur  in  the  proposition  to  meet 
at  12  o'clock,  M.,  this  day,  the  usual  hour  for  the 
assemblage  of  parliamentary  bodies  in  the  United 
States. 

(Signed)  M.  SHERBURNE,  Chairman 

C.  L.  CHASE,  Secretary. 

I  now  propose  to  introduce  another  witness, 
the  Pioneer  and  Democrat,  for  the  purpose  of 
proving  conclusively  this  same  fact : 

"Although  12  o'clock,  m.,  on  Monday  was  the  time 
agreed  upon  on  which  the  Convention  should  be 
called  to  order — " 

Admitting  that  there  was  an  agreement  to 
that  effect,  and  that  the  time  mentioned  in 
that  agreement  was  twelve  o'clock — 
*'  yet  the  Black  Republicans  took  possession  of  the 
Hall  of  the  House  of  Representatives  on  Sunday 
night,  fifteen  hours  prior  to  the  time,"  &c. 

Now,  sir,  I  have  proved  conclusively  by  an 
instrument  of  writing  under  the  hands  of  their 
leading  men,  and  also  by  their  organ  of  this 


city,  that  this  Convention  should  not  be  or- 
ganized until  12  o'clock,  m.,  on  Monday,  the 
13th  instant. 

And  now  I  arraign  the  Democratic  mem- 
bers, and  charge  them  with  being  the  viola- 
tors of  this  agreement,  and  this  charge  I  will 
prove,  sir. 

There  are  three  ways,  Mr.  President,  in 
which  a  man  can  prove  a  fact — first,  by  the 
introduction  of  a  witness  which  he  himself 
has  brought  upon  the  stand  ;  second,  by  wit- 
nesses which  the  opposite  party  have  intro- 
duced ;  and  third,  by  their  own  admission. 

I  propose  first  to  adopt  the  latter  course, 
and  show  from  their  own  organs  that  they 
were  its  violators  and  not  us. 

My  witness  is  the  same  paper  from  which 
I  have  already  read — the  Pioneer  and  Dem- 
ocrat. 

In  giving  a  statement  of  the  proceedings 
of  the  Convention  of  that  day,  it  says,  "  At 
"  quarter  to  12  o'clock,  A.  i/".,  Hon.  C.  L. 
"  Chase,  Secretary  of  the  Territory  of  Minne- 
"  sota,  and  Mr.  Nobth,  of  Rice  County,  simul- 
"  taneously  entered  the  Speaker's  desk  and 
"  called  the  Convention  to  order." 

I  also  call  upon  every  Republican  member 
of  this  Convention  to  bear  me  witness,  when  I 
say  that  about  seventeen  minutes  before  twelve 
o'clock,  and  before  any  attempt  was  made  on 
the  part  of  the  Republicans  to  organize,  the 
Democratic  members  marched  into  this  Hall 
in  a  body,  and  through  Mr.  Chase,  sought  to 
secure  the  preliminary  organization.  Sir,  such 
are  the  facts; 

I  next  propose  to  speak  of  the  right  of  the 
Secretary  of  the  Territory,  as  such,  to  call 
this  Convention  to  order.  The  Organic  Act 
of  the  Territory  of  Minnesota,  which  created 
the  office  of  Secretary,  has  defined  its  powers 
and  prescribed  its  duties.  The  thu-d  section 
of  the  Organic  Act,  says : 

"  Andhe  it  further  enacted,  That  there  shall  be  a 
Secretary  of  said  Territory,  who  shall  reside  there- 
in, and  hold  his  office  for  four  years  unless  sooner 
removed  by  the  President  of  the  United  States  ; 
and  he  shall  record  and  preserve  all  the  laws  and 
proceedings  of  the  Legislative  Assembly  herein- 
after constituted,  and  all  the  acts  and  proceedings 
of  the  Governor  in  hi^  Executive  department ;  he 
shall  transmit  one  copy  of  the  laws  and  one  copy 
of  the  Executive  proceedings,  on  or  before  the  first 
day  of  December  in  each  year,  to  the  President  of 
the  United  States,  and  at  the  same  time  two  copies 
of  the  laws  to  the  Speaker  of  the  House  of  Repre- 


MINNESOTA  CONTENTION  DEBATES— Monday,  July  20. 


sentativesandthe  President  of  the  Senate  for  the  j  Mr  upon  its  face,  had   he  any  right  to  call 

use  of  Congress.    And  in  case  of  the  death,  re-  j  jjjjg  Conyention  to  order. 

moval  or  necessary  absence  of  the  Governor  from  A^ain,  we  find  that  almost  invariably  where 

the  Territory  the  Secretary  shall  be  and  he  is  here-  j  ^^  Secretary  of  a  Territory  has  call^  such 

by  authorized  and  required  to  execute  andperform  |  ^  ^^  ^^  ^,d,,  j^  ^33  bee„  by  ^tue  of  some 


all  the  powers  and  duties  of  the  Governor  during 
such  vacancy  or  necessary  absence  or  until  another 
Governor  shall  be  duly  appointed  to  fill  such  yut  i 
cancy.  I 

In  that  section,  we  find  his  duties,  his  | 
rights  and  his  powers  clearly  and  distinctly  j 
marked  out ;    but  among  those  powers  noth- 
ing can  be  found  ^ving  him  authority  to  or- 
ganize  or  call  to  order  a  Constitutional  Con-  i 
vention.      Neither  can  any  such  power  or  j 
authority  be  found  in  any  law  which  has  been 
passed  by  Congress  or  the  Territorial  Legis-  ! 
lature  of  Minnesota.     Hence,  I  say  that  the  ] 
Secretary    of  the  Territory,   as    such,   has  | 
no  more  power,  has  no  more  right,  has  no  i 
more  authority  to  call  such  a  Convention  to  ■ 
order,  than  any  individual  who  may  happen  ; 
to  be  passing  along  the  street.     This,  sir,  in  1 
my  judgment  would  settle  everytbing  con-  ! 
nected  with  the  organization  of  this  Conven- 
tion.    But  we  imderstand  it  is  claimed  that  \ 
he  had  not  only  the  right  to  call  the  Conven-  ! 
tion  to  order  as  Secretary  of  the  Territory, 
but  as  a  member  of  this  Convention. 

Sir,  I  recognize  most  fiilly  the  right  of  eve- 
ry person  who  has  been  duly  elected,  and 
who  has  a  certificate  of  his  election  as  a  mem- 
ber, to  call  this  body  to  order.  The  right  of 
such  a  member  must  be  recognized.  But, 
sir,  had  he  any  evidence  to  show  that  he  was 
a  member  of  this  Convention  ?  Not  any  at 
all,  sir.  He  had  no  certificate  of  election,  and 
upon  .this  point  the  rules  and  r^ulations 
of  parliamentary  practice  are  well  settled. 
The  best  authority  which  I  know  upon  this 
subject  is  Cushing's  Law  and  Practice  of 
Legislative  Assemblies,  which  is  recognized 
as  the  highest  parliamentary  authority  in  this 
country.     Upon  this  subject  he  says  : 

"These  principles  are  as  follows:  First,  that 
every  person  duly  returned  iS  a  member,  whether 
legally  elected  or  not,  until  his  election  is  set  aside. 
Second,  that  no  person  who  is  not  duly  retwmedis 
a  member,  even  though  legally  elected,  until  his 
election  is  established." 

Mr.  Chase  at  that  time,  therefore,  could 
have  no  claim  as  a  member.  And  I  have 
shown  that  neither  as  Secretary  of  the  Terri- 
tory, nor  as  an  individual  who  comes  here 
without  any  certificate  as  member,  which  is 


law  which  authorized  returns  to  be  made  to 
his  office,  and  he  being  the  keeper  or  custodi- 
an of  these  returns,  has  been  suffered  to  per- 
form that  duty.  But  vmder  Enabling  Acts 
Hke  ours,  in  all  the  Territories,  as  far  as  my 
knowledge  extends,  the  tmiversal  practice  and 
custom  has  been  for  some  member  who  has  a 
certificate  which  is  fair  upon  its  fece,  to  call 
the  Convention  to  order.  So  that  I  say  even 
upon  the  groimd  of  precedoit  he  bad  no  such 
anthority. 

Now,  sir,  if  I  understand  the  position  which 
we  at  present  occupy,  it  is  substantially  this : 
We  have  met  here  as  delegates,  duly  elected, 
with  certificates  in  our  possession  which  are 
fiiir  upon  their  face.  We  met  at  the  time  ap- 
pointed by  law.  We  made  an  agreement 
with  our  Democratic  brethren,  which  agree- 
ment was  violated  by  them  in  the  first  in- 
stance. If  we  organized  before  twelve  o'clock 
it  was  because  we  were  compelled  so  to  do  in^^ 
order  to  preserve  our  rights — they  having  vio- 
lated the  agreement  in  the  first  instance  by  an 
attempt  to  organize,  of  course  we  had  no 
other  alternative  left. 

Then,  I  say,  that  as  we  stand  here  before 
the  people  of  Minnesota,  we  stand  justified 
upon  the  ground  that  we  have  done  everything 
which  the  terms  of  our  agreement  required — 
have  done  everything  that  honor  dictated. 
But,  sir,  it  is  insisted  that  we  should  not 
have  allowed  certain  gentlemen  from  Henne- 
pin coimty  their  seats. 

I  tell  you,  Mr.  Pbestoent,  we  had  no  alter- 
native in  this  matter— we  had  no  ri^t  to  say 
I  that  they  should  not  take  their  seats  in  the 
:  first  instance  and  participate  in  our  proceed- 
j  ings  up  to  such  time  as  their  seats  might  be 
!  contested.     They  had  certificates  of  election, 
and  we  had  no  right  to  go  behind  those  cer- 
tificates, when  no  one  contested  their  seats 
and  pronounce  their  election  fraudulent  and 
void,  simply  because  some  newspaper  said 
they  were.     If  it  were  true  that  these  gentle- 
men were  not  legally  and  properly  elected, 
why  not  appear  before  the  Convention  at  the 
proper  time,  and  in  the  proper  manner,  and 
make  it  appear?     No  attempt  of  this  kind 


78 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— TcESii ay,  July  21. 


Vv'as  made,  and  hence  we  had  no  right  to  say 
to  these  gentlemen,  "You  shall  not  partici- 
"pate  with  us  in  our  proceedings  for  the  rea- 
"  son  that  your  certificates  of  election  were 
"  wrongfully  obtained,  and  the  reason  why  we 
"  know  it  is  because  the  Pioneer  and  Demo- 
"  crat  says  so." 

Mr.  Pkesidext,  who  ever  heard  of  news- 
paper rumor  being  received  in  courts  of  jus- 
tice, or  conventional  bodies  in  preference  to 
the  official  statements  of  properly  constituted 
officers  acting  under  the  sanctions  and  solem- 
nities of  an  oath  ?  The  idea  is  too  preposter- 
ous to  be  thought  of. 

Sir,  the  doctrine  of  allowing  the  majority 
to  rule  is  abandoned,  and  the  war  cry  now 
raised  is  "rule  or  ruin." 

If,  therefore,  we  are  compelled  to  go  before 
the  people  of  Minnesota  upon  this  issue,  let 
us  go  before  them  stating  the  facts  as  they 
occurred.  If  we  are  charged  with  being  rev- 
olutionists, if  we  are  charged  with  being 
fanatics,  let  us  have  in  our  hands  a  clear 
statement  of  these  truths.  I  understand  to  a 
certain  extent,  the  Republican  sentiment  of 
this  Territory,  and  I  know  that  sentiment 
demands  and  wants  nothing  more  than  what 
is  right  and  what  is  just.  I  know  that  the 
Republicans  of  this  Territory  demand  of 
others  nothing  that  is  not  founded  upon  prin- 
ciples of  honor  and  justice.  I  know  that  the 
members  of  this  body  have  demanded  noth- 
ing that  was  not  justly,  legally  and  honorably 
due  them.  Mr.  Peesident,  no  man  feels  more 
sensitive  than  I  do,  when  charged  with  being 
violators  of  the  Constitution,  and  with  having 
no  regard  for  the  federal  compact  which  should 
bind  us  all  together.  For  one,  I  say  that  I 
stand  here  to  day,  having  taken  the  oath  to 
support  that  instrument,  and  I  intend  to  car- 
ry out  its  provisions  so  far  as  lies  within  my 
power.  Sir,  the  Republican  party  acknowl- 
edge fealty — first,  to  the  God  of  IJeaven,  and 
second,  to  the  Federal  Constitution;  and  I 
hurl  back  the  charge  which  has  been  made 
against  us  as  Republicans,  of  desiring  to 
trample  under  foot  the  provisions  of  that 
sacred  instrument,  as  totally,  knowingly,  and 
wickedly  false. 

Sir,  I  love  the  Union  of  the  American 
States;  Ilovc  the  Federal  Constitution.  To 
that  instrument  wc  owe  all  that  we  are — all 
that  we  hope  to  be.    Under  that  instrument 


we  have  increased  from  four  millions  of  self- 
sacrificing,  patriotic  inhabitants,  to  thirty  mil- 
lions of  proud  and  prosperous  people.  Under 
thatjinstrument  we  have  extended  our  domains 
from  the  Mississippi  to  the  Rocky  Mountains, 
and  from  the  Rocky  Mountains  to  the  Pacific 
Ocean.  Under  that  instrument  we  have 
contended  successfully  with  the  British  Lion 
and  sent  him  howling  across  the  waters  of  the 
sea.  And  may  God  grant  that  when  the  rays 
of  the  last  setting  sun  shall  sink  back  into 
eternal  night,  no  longer  to  gladden  the  face  of 
man,  its  crimson  hue  may  be  reflected  back 
upon  those  extended  Heavens  that  still  cover 
the  United  States  of  America. 

LIST   OF   STANDING    COMMITTEES.         \ 

On  motion  of  Mr.  GALBRAITH— 
Ordered,     That   the  committee  on  Printing  be 

instructed  to  procure  the  printing  of  100  copies  of 

the  list  of  Standing  Committees. 

And  then  on  motion  of  Mr.  KING,  at  three 
o'clock  and  fifteen  minutes,  the  Convention 
adjourned. 


EIGHTH  DAY. 

Tuesday,  Juiy  21st,  1857. 
The  Convention  met  at  9  o'clock,  a.  m. 
The  Journal  of  yesterday  was  read  and 
approved. 

PBEAMBLE   AND   BILL   OF   EIGHTS. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL,  from  the  committee 
on  the  Preamble  and  Bill  of  Rights,  made  the 
following  report,  which  was  read  a  first  and 
second  time,  viz : 

Preamble.  We  the  people  of  the  State  of  Min- 
nesota, grateful  to  God  for  our  civil  and  religious 
liberty  and  desu-ing  to  perpetuate  its  blessings 
and  secure  the  same  to  ourselves  and  our  posterity, 
do  ordain  and  establish  this  Constitution : 

ARTICLE    I — DECLARATION   OF   RIGHTS. 

Section  1.  All  men  are  born  equally  free  and 
independent,  and  have  certain  inherent  rights; 
among  these  are  life,  liberty  and  the  pursuit  of 
happiness.  To  secufe  these  rights,  governments 
are  instituted  among  men  deriving  their  just  pow- 
ers from  the  consent  of  the  governed. 

Sec.  2.  There  shall  be  neither  slavery  nor  in- 
voluntary servitude  in  this  State  except  for  tho 
punishment  of  crime,  whereof  the  party  shall  haVo 
been  duly  convicted. 

Sec.  3.  Fvery  one  may  freely  speak,  write  and 
publish  his  sentiments  on  all  subjects,  being  respon- 
sible for  tho  abuse  of  such  right ;  and  no  laws  shall 
bo  passed  to  restrain  or  abridge  tho  liberty  of 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Tuesday,  July  21. 


Y9 


speech  or  of  the  press.  In  all  criminal  prosecu- 
tions or  indictments  for  libel,  the  truth  may  be 
given  in  evidence  :  and  if  it  shall  appear  to  the  jury 
that  the  matter  charged  as  libelous  be  true,  and 
was  published  with  good  motives  and  for  justifi- 
able ends,  the  party  shall  be  acquitted ;  and  the 
jury  shall  have  the  right  to  determine  the  law  and 
the  fact. 

Sec.  4.  The  right  of  the  people  peaceably  to 
assemble  to  consult  for  the  common  good  and  to 
petiiion  the  government  or  any  department  thereof 
shall  never  be  abridged. 

Sec.  5.  The  right  of  trial  by  jury  shall  remain 
inviolate ;  and  shall  extend  to  all  cases  at  law  with- 
out regard  to  the  amount  in  controversy ;  but  a 
jury  trial  may  be  waived  by  the  parties  in  all  cases 
in  the  manner  prescribed  by  law. 

Sec.  6.  Excessive  bail  shall  not  be  required ; 
nor  shall  excessive  fines  be  imposed ;  nor  shall 
cruel  and  unusual  punishments  be  inflicted. 

Sec.  T.  In  all  criminal  prosecutions  the  accused 
shall  enjoy  the  right  to  be  heard  by  himself  and 
counsel ;  to  demand  the  nature  and  cause  of  the 
accusation  against  him ;  to  meet  the  witness  face 
to  face ;  to  have  compulsory  process  to  compel  the 
attendance  of  witnesses  in  his  behalf;  and  in  pros- 
ecutions by  indictment  or  information,  to  a  speedy 
public  trial  by  an  impartial  jury  of  the  county  or 
district,  wherein  the  ofience  shall  have  been  com- 
mitted, which  county  or  district  shall  have  been 
previously  ascertained  by  law. 

Sec.  8.  Xo  person  shall  be  held  to  answer  for 
a  criminal  offence  unless  on  the  presentment  or 
indictment  of  a  grand  jury,  except  in  cases  of  im- 
peachment or  in  cases  cognizable  by  Justices  of 
the  Peace,  or  arising  in  the  Army  or  Navy,  or  in 
the  militia  when  in  actual  service  in  time  of 
war  or  public  danger ;  and  no  person  for  the  same 
offence  shall  be  put  twice  in  jeopardy  of  punish- 
ment nor  shall  be  compelled  in^any  criminal  case 
to  be  a  witness  against  himself.  All  persons  shall, 
before  conviction  be  bailable  by  sufficient  sureties, 
except  for  capital  offences  when  the  proof  is  evi. 
dent  or  the  presumption  great ;  and  the  privilege 
of  the  writ  of  habeas  corpus  shall  not  be  sus- 
pended unless  when  in  case  of  rebellion  or  inva- 
sion, the  public  safety  may  require. 

Sbc.  9.  Every  person  is  entitled  to  a  certain 
remedy  in  the  laws  for  all  injiu-iesor  wrongs  which 
he  may  receive  in  his  person,  property  or  charac- 
ter ;  he  ought  to  obtain  justice  freely  and  without 
being  obliged  to  piuxhase  it ;  completely  and  with- 
out denial,  promptly  and  without  delay,  conform- 
ably to  the  laws. 

Sec.  10.  Treason  against  the  State  shall  con- 
sist only  in  levying  war  against  the  same  or  in 
adhering  to  its  enemies,  giving  them  aid  and  com- 
fort. Xo  person  shall  be  convicted  of  treason 
unless  on  the  testimony  of  two  witnesses  to  the 
same  overt  act,  or  on  confession  in  open  court. 

Sec.  11.  The  right  of  the  people  to  be  secure 
in  their  persons,  houses,  papers  and  effects,  against 


unreasonable  searches  and  seizures  shall  not  be 
violated,  and  no  warrant  shall  issue  but  upon 
probable  cause  supported  by  oath  or  afiirmation, 
and  particularly  describing  the  place  to  be  searched 
and  the  person  cr  things  to  be  seized. 

Skc.  12.  Xo  bill  of  attainder,  ex-post  facto  law, 
nor  any  law  impairing  the  obligation  of  contracts 
shall  ever  be  past ;  and  no  conviction  shall  work 
corruption  of  blood  or  forfeiture  of  estate. 

Sbc.  13.  X^o  private  property  shall  be  t^en  for 
public  use  without  just  compensation  therefor. 

Sec.  14.  All  lands  within  the  Sate  are  declared 
to  be  allodial,  and  feudal  tenures  are  prohibited. 
Leases  and  grants  of  agricultural  land  for  a  longer 
term  than  fifteen  years,  in  which  rent  or  service  of 
any  kind  shall  be  reserved,  and  all  fines  and  like 
restraints  upon  alienation  reserved  in  any  grant 
of  land  hereafter  made,  are  declared  to  be  void. 

Skc.  15.  Xo  distinction  shall  ever  be  made  by 
law  between  resident  aliens  and  citizens  in  refer- 
ence to  the  possession,  enjoyment  or  descent  of 
property. 

Sec.  16.  Xo  person  shall  be  imprisoned  for 
debt  arising  out  of  or  founded  upon  any  contract 
express  or  implied. 

Sec.  17.  The  right  of  the  debtor  to  enjoy  the 
necessary  comforts  of  life  shall  be  recognized  by 
wholesome  laws,  exempting  a  reasonable  amount 
of  property  from  seizure  or  sale  for  the  payment 
of  any  debt  or  liability  hereafter  contracted. 

Skc.  18.  The  right  of  every  man  to  worship 
God  according  to  the  dictates  of  his  own  conscience 
shall  never  be  infringed ;  nor  shall  any  man  be 
compelled  to  attend,  erect  or  support  any  place  of 
worship,  or  to  maintain  any  ministry  against  his 
consent.  X'or  shall  any  control  of,  or  interference 
with  the  rights  of  conscience  be  permitted,  or  any 
preference  be  given  by  law  to  any  religious  estab- 
lishment or  mode  of  worship.  Xor  shall  any 
money  be  drawn  from  the  Treasury  for  the  benefit 
of  religious  societies,  or  religious  or  theological 
seminaries. 

Sec.  19.  Xo  religious  test  or  amount  of  prop- 
erty shall  ever  be  required  as  a  qualification  for 
any  office  of  public  trust  under  the  State.  Xo  re- 
ligious test  or  amount  of  property  shall  ever  be 
required  as  a  qualification  of  any  voter  at  any  elec- 
tion in  this  State ;  nor  shall  any  person  be  rendered 
incompetent  to  give  evidence  in  any  court  of  law 
or  equity  in  consequence  of  his  opinion  upon  the 
subject  of  religion. 

Skc.  20.  The  military  shall  be  in  strict  subor- 
dination to  the  civil  power. 

Sbc.  21.  Writs  of  error  shall  never  be  pro- 
hibited by  law. 

Sec.  22.  Xo  lottery  shall  ever  be  authorized  by 
this  State,  and  the  buying  and  selling  of  lottery 
tickets  is  hereby  prohibited. 

Sec.  2-3.  Every  law  enacted  by  the  Legislature 
shall  embrace  but  one  object,  and  that  shall  be 
expressed  in  the  title. 

Sec.  24.    Any  citizen  of  this  State  who  shall. 


80 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Tuesday,  July  21. 


after  the  adoption  of  this  Constitution,  fight  a 
duel  with  deadly  weapons,  or  send  or  accept  a 
challenge  to  fight  a  duel  with  deadly  weapons, 
either  within  this  State  or  out  of  it,  or  who  shall 
act  as  second,  or  knowingly  aid  or  assist  in  any 
manner  those  thus  oflfending,  shall  be  deprived  of 
holding  any  office  of  profit  or  trust  under  this 
State. 

Sec.  25.  The  criminal  code  shall  be  founded  on 
principles  of  reformation,  and  not  of  vindictive 
justice. 

Sec.  26.  The  people  shall  have  the  right  to 
bear  arms  in  defence  of  themselves  and  State. 

Sec.  27.  The  blessings  of  a  free  government 
can  only  be  maintained  by  a  firm  adherence  to 
justice,  moderation,  temperance,  frugality  and 
virtue,  and  by  a  frequent  recurrence  to  fundamen- 
tal principles. 

All  of  which  is  respectfully  submitted. 

AMOS  COGGSWELL. 
GEO.  WATSON. 
T.  D.  SMITH. 
B.  E.  MESSER. 

PRINTING   OF  REPORTS. 

The  PRESIDENT  suggested  that  no  order 
had  yet  been  made  in  reference  to  printing 
the  reports  of  the  various  standing  com- 
mittees. 

Mr.  ALDRIOH.  I  do  not  know  as  it  will 
be  necessary  to  print  every  report  of  the  com- 
mittees, but  it  is  important  that  the  report 
just  made  should  be.  I  move  that  the  report 
be  laid  on  the  table,  and  that  one  hundred 
copies  be  printed  for  the  use  of  the  Con- 
vention. 

Mr.  PERKINS  moved  to  substitute  one 
hundred  and  fifty  copies. 

Mr.  ALDRICH.  I  accept  the  amendment. 
My  friend,  [Mr.  Morgan],  suggests  two  hun- 
dred copies  so  that  our  friends  at  the  other 
end  of  the  capitol  may  have  the  benefit  of 
them,  if  they  desire. 

Mr,  HAYDEN.  I  move  to  amend  so  as  to 
require  that  two  hundred  copies  of  each  re- 
port of  the  standing  committees  be  printed. 

Mr.  ALDRICH  accepted  the  amendment. 

The  resolution,  as  thus  modified,  was  agreed 
to. 

considbeation  of  pending  resolutions. 

Under  the  order  of  business  of  the  day  the 
following  resolutions  were  taken  from  the 
table  for  consideration : 

The  resolution  offered  by  Mr.  PERKINS 
yesterday  for  the  appointment  of  a  committee 
to  ascertain  whether  the  several  assessors  of 
the  State  have  filed  with  the  Secretary  of  the 


Territory,   lists   of  the  inhabitents  of  their 
several  districts,  &c. 

Mr.  PERKINS.  I  hope  that  the  resolution 
will  pass,  as  I  desire  this  Convention  to  neg- 
lect no  means  of  bringing  before  it  an  authen- 
tic census  of  the  Territory.  The  Marshal, 
Mr.  Gere,  has  informed  members  that  he  has 
received  no  instructions  whatever  from  the 
Secretary  of  the  Interior,  and  that  he  can 
give  no  information  as  to  the  time  when  he 
can  have  the  census  taken.  If  the  assessors 
of  the  whole  Territory  have  performed  their 
duties,  as  the  assessors  of  the  southern  por- 
tion have,  there  was  a  census  placed  on  the 
files  of  the  Secretary's  office  by  the  first 
Monday  of  July.  I  see  no  harm,  at  least,  to 
result  from  the  appointment  of  this  committee 
to  ascertain  the  fact. 

Mr.  DICKERSON.  I  think  that  the  cen- 
sus taken  by  the  assessors  is  not  such  as  is 
required  for  our  use.  That  census  merely 
specifies  the  number  of  each  family,  male  and 
female,  and  the  number  of  persons  subject  to 
military  duty.  We  need  sometliing  more 
than  that  for  our  purposes. 

Mr.  MORGAN.  I  think  this  resolution  un- 
necessary. We  have  a  standing  committee 
on  "  Schedules,"  and  it  is  the  duty  of  that 
committee,  as  I  understand  it,  to  make  inqui- 
ries to  ascertain  such  facts  as  may  enable 
them  to  form  a  correct  basis  of  representation. 
If  it  should  be  necessary  to  have  a  resolution 
of  this  body  to  enable  them  to  procure  from 
the  Secretary  of  State  this  information,  the 
resolution  should  emanate  from  that  commit- 
tee. I  dislike  very  much  the  practice  of 
sending  out  committees  of  this  body  for  vari- 
ous purposes,  unless  it  is  absolutely  necessary 
to  do  so.  It  is  in  the  power  of  any  iiu'iiibcr, 
and  it  is  the  right  of  every  individual,  to  ob- 
tain from  the  Secretary's  office,  a  copy  of 
any  paper  which  exists  there.  Until  that 
privilege  is  refused,  we  ought  not  to  act  as 
though  we  thought  it  necessary  to  appoint  a 
committee  to  oblaiii  tliat  wliich  every  one  has 
a  right  to  have. 

Mr.  HAYDEN.  I  move  that  the  resolution 
be  laid  on  the  table. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to,  and  the  resolu- 
tion was  laid  on  the  table. 

The  next  resolution  tjikcn  up,  was  that 
offered  by  Mr.  KING  yesterday,  instructing 
the  committee  on  elections  to  insert  a  registry 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION   DEBATES— Tuesday,  Jclt  21. 


81 


clause  in  the  Constitution.  The  resolution 
was  read. 

Mr.  COLBrRN.     I  move  to  amend  that 

resolution  by  striking  out  the  word  "  insert,'' 
and  insert  in  lieu  thereof  the  words,  "  enquire 
into  the  expediency  of  inserting." 

Mr.  KING  accepted  the  amendment. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  It  seems  to  me  that  ei- 
ther the  gentleman  who  offered  that  resolu- 
tion or  myself  has  a  misconception  as  to  the 
duties  of  the  committee  on  elections  and  cre- 
dentials. That  commitee  as  I  understand,  is 
simply  a  committee  on  the  election  and  cre- 
dentials of  members  of  this  Convention.  If 
so,  it  is  not  the  appropriate  committee  to 
which  to  refer  the  subject  matter  of  the  reso- 
lution. I  therefore  move  that  the  resolution 
and  the  subject  matter  thereof  be  referred  to 
the  committee  on  the  Elective  Franchise. 

Mr.  WILSON.  I  am  opposed  to  this,  as  I 
shall  be  to  all  movements  of  this  sort.  There 
is  a  standing  committee  now  appointed  whose 
duty  it  is  to  examine  this  very  matter.  This 
resolution  anticipates  their  actions,  and  seeks 
to  instruct  them  in  regard  to  that  which  it  is 
th&r  duty  to  investigate  and  report  upon  to 
this  Convention.  I  know  that  nothing  dis- 
courteous towards  that  committee  is  intended 
by  the  mover  of  the  resolution,  because  he 
would  not  intentionally  be  discourteous  to- 
wards anybody,  yet  it  savors  of  liscourtesy 
to  that  committee.  We  should  leave  the 
matter  alone  until  we  see  whether  the  com- 
mittee take  action  upon  it.  I  shaU  therefore 
oppose  the  resolution,  and  oppose  the  refer- 
ence of  it 

On  motion  of  Mr.  HARDING,  the  resolu- 
tion was  laid  upon  the  table. 

The  next  business  taken  from  the  Speaker's 
table,  was  the  following  resolution  offered  by 
Mr.  COLBURN  yesterday. 

"Rtisoltid,  That  this  Convention  hold  one  session 
per  day,  and  that  nine  o'clock  be  the  hour  of  meet- 
ing until  otherwise  ordered." 

Mr.  COLBURN.  As  some  objection  was 
made  yesterday  to  this  resolution,  I  will 
simply  state  that  my  object  was  that  members 
might  understand  definitely  what  were  to  be 
our  regulations  as  to  the  time  and  length  of 
our  sessions.  Now  that  the  standing  com- 
mittees are  appointed,  they  will  require  a 
portion  of  the  day  to  attend  to  their  duties, 
as  such,  and  if  it  shall  be  determined  that 

11 


we  will  have  but  one  session  per  day,  and  that 
at  nine  o'clock,  the  committees  will  know  what 
time  they  can  have  to  devote  to  their  business. 
I  think  that  will  be  better  than  it  would  be 
to  adjourn  from  day  to  day,  as  we  might 
think  circumstances  required. 
The  resolution  was  adopted. 

PAPERS  FOB  OFFICEKS  OP  THE  COXTESTIOS. 

Mr.  WILSON  by  vmanimous  consent,  intro- 
duced the  following  resolution,  which  was 
read,  considered  and  agreed  to: 

"  Resolved,  That  the  officers  of  the  Convention 
be  entitled  to  receive  newspapers  to  the  same  num- 
ber and  under  the  same  rule  as  members  of  the 
ConTention." 

RECOXSrOEBATIOS. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  move  to  reconsider  the 
vote  by  which  the  resolution,  offered  by  Mr. 
McKcxE  a  day  or  two  since  in  reference  to 
the  proviso  in  the  fifth  section  of  the  act  of 
Congress,  was  referred  to  the  committee  on 
Miscellaneous  Provisions.  I  make  the  mo- 
tion so  as  to  have  the  resolution  referred  to 
the  committee  on  Public  Property  and  Ex- 
penditures. 

The  motion  to  reconsider  prevailed,  and  then 
the  resolution  was  then  referred  to  the  commit- 
tee on  Pubhc  Property  and  Expenditiu^s. 

BOOKS   FOB   MEMBERS 

Mr.  LOWE.  I  wish  to  submit  a  proposition 
to  instruct  the  Secretary  of  the  Convention 
tb  procure  for  each  member  a  copy  of  the 
Constitution  of  the  United  States.  I  feel  the 
want  of  it  very  much  myself,  and  upon  con- 
sideration \vith  others,  I  find  they  entertain 
the  same  view  I  do  upon  the  subject  I  make 
the  motion. 

Mr.  WILSON.  That  proposition  stands 
upon  the  same  basis  as  the  one  furnishing  pa- 
pers to  the  members  of  the  Convention,  and 
as  I  opposed  that,  I  shall  oppose  this,  and  I 
do  hope  there  wnU  be  found  no  member  voting 
for  any  resolution  of  this  sort  If  we  pro- 
cure a  copy  of  the  Constitution  for  members, 
why  should  we  not  also  procure  other  books 
of  which  they  stand  in  need ;  why  not  pro- 
cure a  copy  of  Webster's  Dictionary,  which 
we  need  just  as  much  in  our  labors  here,  as 
we  do  the  Constitution.  And  I  have  nodoubt 
some  would  need  Murray's  old  Grammar — 
for  in  my  opinion  that  is  the  best  thing  of  the 
kind  out  yet  The  whole  thing  is  radically 
wrong.    The  people  did  not  send  us  here  to 


82 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Wednesday,  Jult  23. 


buy  books  at  their  expense.  They  supposed 
we  Avould  procure  them  for  ourselves  if  we 
.  needed  them.  I  need  indeed  a  library  to  con- 
sult, worth  hundreds  of  dollars,  and  shall  I 
procure  that  at  the  expense  of  the  people  of 
the  Territory  ?  I  hope  we  shall  not  have  a 
vote  here  that  will  show  any  gi-eat  minority 
even  in  favor  of  any  such  thing. 

Mr.  MORGAN.  I  have  had  occasion  to 
make  some  inquiries  in  regard  to  procuring 
that  book  here  at  this  time,  and  I  ascertained 
this  morning  that  an  individual  sent  for  some 
copies  about  a  week  ago,  and  that  it  would  be 
two  weeks  yet  before  they  would  arrive.  If 
we  now  instruct  the  Secretary  to  procure 
copies  for  us,  they  could  not  be  obtained  in 
time  for  our  use. 

The  question  was  put  on  the  motion,  and 
it  was  decided  in  the  negative. 

On  motion  of  :Mr.  NORTH,  (at  ten  o'clock 
and  forty-five  minutes)  the  Convention  ad- 
journed. 


NINTH  DAY. 

Wednesday,  July  22d,  1857. 

The  Convention  met  at  nine  o'clock,  a.  m. 

Prayer  by  the  Chaplain,  Rev.  E.  D.  Nbill. 

A  quorum  being  present,  the  Journal  of 
yesterday  was  read  and  approved.  . 

stationery  fob  members. 

Mr.  ALDRICH  from  the  committee  on 
Supplies  and  Expenditures,  reported  that  the 
committee  had  made  arrangements  with  Mr. 
VoN  Hamm  to  furnish  the  stationery  ordered 
by  this  Convention — that  is  five  dollars  worth 
to  each  member,  and  such  quantity  as  the 
Secretary  and  Reporter  shall  require. 

ORGANIZATION   OF   REPRESENTATIVE    BODIES. 

Mr.  FOLSOM  offered  the  following  resolu- 
tion, which  giving  rise  to  debate,  was  laid 
over  under  the  rules,  viz : 

"Resolved,  That  a  committee  of  five  be  ap- 
pointed, of  which  the  Chairman  of  the  Convention 
be  ex^offido  Chohr man,  and  the  remaining  members 
to  be  chosen  by  ballot,  whose  duty  it  shall  be 
to  report  to  this  Convention  the  proper  measures 
for  obviating,  in  the  assembling  of  any  future 
Convention,  the  difficulties  which  have  occurred 
in  the  organization  of  this, — who  shall  indicate 
proper  means  by  which  the  organization  shall  be 
«firccted,  and  the  manner  in  which  the  credentials 


shall  be  awthenticated.  It  shall  also  be  their  duty 
to  make  similar  provisions  with  regard  to  all  rep- 
resentative bodies  so  as  to  secure  their  organi- 
zation in  a  manner  as  free  as  possible  from  all 
party  bias." 

PRINTER  TO   THE   CONVENTION. 

On  motion  of  Mr.  GALBRAITH— 

"Ord(-red,  That  the  election  of  Printer  to  this 
Convention  be  made  the  special  order  for  to-day 
at  10  o'clock." 

CALL    OF   THE    CONVENTION. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH,  at  nine  o'clock  and 
fifty-five  minutes,  moved  that  there  be  a  call 
of  the  Convention. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to,  and  -the  roll  be- 
ing called,  Messrs.  Foster,  Hall,  Mills,  Mur- 
phy, Perkins,  Putnam,  Thompson,  Walker, 
and  Sheldon,  failed  to  answer  to  their  names. 

Mr.  HAYDEN  moved  that  all  further  pro- 
ceedings under  the  call  be  dispensed  with. 

The  motion  was  lost  and  the  Sergeant-at- 
Arms  was  directed  to  bring  in  the  absentees. 
After  an  interval  of  thirty  minutes — 

Mr.  STANNARD  moved  that  the  vote  by 
which  the  Convention  refused  to  dispense 
with  all  further  proceedings  under  the  call,  be 
reconsidered. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to,  and  then  all  fur- 
ther proceedings  under  the  call  were  dispen- 
sed with. 

Pending  the  call  Mr.  SECOMBE  stated 
that  Mr.  Walker  was  sick  and  unable  to  be 
in  attendance  upon  the  Convention  to-day. 

Mr.  STANNARD,  at  ten  o'clock  and 
thirty  minutes,  moved  that  the  Convention 
adjourn,  which  motion  was  not  agreed  to. 

After  a  few  minutes,  during  which  time  no 
business  was  transacted — 

Mr.  GALBRAITH  moved  that  there  be  a 
call  of  the  House :  which  motion  was  agreed 
to. 

The  roll  being  called,  Messrs.  Foster, 
Murphy,  Perkins,  Putnam,  Thompson,  Walk- 
er, and  Sheldon,  failed  to  answer  to  their 
names. 

Mr.  STANNARD  moved  that  all  further 
proceedings  under  the  call  be  dispensed  with, 
which  motion  was  not  agi'eed  to. 

The  Scrgeant-at-Arms  was  directed  ta  bring 
in  the  absentees. 

•  After  a  few  nrinutes,  during  'which  time 
several  absent  members  appeared — 

Mr.  GALBRAITH  moved,  at  eleven  o'clock, 
to  reconsider  the  vote  by  which  the  Convea- 


MINNESOTA  CONTENTION  DEBATES— Wednesday,  Jcly  22. 


83 


tion  refused  to  suspend  further  proceedings 
under  the  call. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to,  and  then  all 
further  proceedings  under  the  call  were  dis- 
pensed with. 

EtECTIOX   OF   PR1>-TER. 

On  motion  of  Mr.  GALBRAITH  the  Con- 
vention proceeded  to  the  election  of  a  Printer 
to  the  Convention,  and  the  roU  being  called, 
there  were  55  votes,  all  of  wliich  were  cast 
for  Messrs.  Owess  &  Moore  of  St.  Paul; 
whereupon  they  were  declared  duly  elected 
printers  to  the  Convention. 

ORGASIZATIOS   OF    EXECUTIVE   DEPARTJIEXT. 

Mr.  ALDRICH,  from  the  committtee  on 
the  Executive  Department,  made  the  follow- 
ing report  which  was  read  a  first  and  second 
time  and  laid  upon  the  table  to  be  printed, 
viz: 

Sectiox  1.  The  executive  power  shall  be  vested 
in  a  Governor  who  shall  hold  his  otlice  for  two 
years.  A  Lieutenant-Governor  shall  be  elected  at 
the  same  time,  and  for  the  same  term. 

Sec.  2.  Xo  person  except  a  citizen  of  the  Uni- 
ted States,  shall  be  eligible  to  the  office  of  Gover- 
nor, nor  shall  any  person  be  eligible  to  that  office 
who  has  not  attained  the  age  of  thirty  years,  and 
who  shall  not  have  been  one  year  next  preceding 
his  election,  a  resident  within  the  State,  or  resi- 
dent at  the  time  of  the  adoption  of  this  Constitu- 
tion. 

Sec.  3.  The  Governor  and  Lieutenant  Gover- 
nor shall  be  elected  by  the  qualified  voters  of  the 
State  at  the  times  and  places  of  choosing  members 
of  the  Legislature.  The  persons  respectively  hav- 
ing the  highest  number  of  votes  for  Governor  and 
Lietenant-Governor,  shall  be  elected  ;  but  in  case 
two  or  more  shall  have  an  equal  and  the  highest 
number  of  votes  for  Governor  or  Lieutenant-Gov- 
ernor, the  two  Houses  of  the  Legislature  at  its 
next  annual  session,  shall  forthwith,  by  joint  bal- 
lot; choose  one  of  the  said  persons  so  having  an 
equal  and  the  highest  number  of  votes  for  Gover- 
nor or  Lieutenant-Governor. 

Sec.  4.  The  Governor  shall  be  Commander-in- 
Chief  of  the  military  and  naval  forces  of  the  State. 
He  shall  have  power  to  convene  the  Legislature  on 
extraordinary  occasions ;  and  in  case  of  invasion  or 
danger  from  the  prevalence  of  contagious  disease 
at  the  seat  of  Government,  he  may  convene  them 
at  any  other  suitable  place  within  the  State.  He 
shall  communicate  by  message  to  the  Legislature 
at  every  session  the  condition  of  the  State,  and 
recommend  such  matters  to  them  as  he  shall  judge 
expedient.  He  shall  transact  all  necessary  business 
with  the  officers  of  Government,  civil  and  military. 
He  shall  expedite  all  such  measures  as  may  be 
resolved  upon  by  the  Legislature,  and  shall  take 


care  that  the  laws  are  faithfully  executed.  He 
shall  at  stated  times  receive  for  his  services  a 
compensation  to  be  established  by  law,  which  shall 
neither  be  increased  nor  diminished  after  his  elec- 
tion and  during  his  continuance  in  office. 

Sec.  5.  The  Governor  shall  have  power  to 
grant  reprieves,  commutations  and  pardons  after 
conviction,  for  all  offences,  except  treason  and 
cases  of  impeachmentL  upon  such  conditions,  and 
with  such  restrictions  and  limitations  as  he  may 
think  proper,  subject  to  such  regulations  as  may 
be  provided  by  law  relative  to  the  manner  of  ap- 
plying for  pardons.  Upon  conviction  for  treason, 
he  shall  have  power  to  suspend  the  execution  of 
the  sentence  until  the  case  shall  be  reported  to  the 
Legislature  at  its  next  meeting,  when  the  Legis- 
lature shall  either  pardon  or  commute  the  sen- 
tence, direct  the  execution  of  the  sentence,  or 
grant  a  further  reprieve.  He  shall  annually  com- 
municate to  the  Legislature  each  ca.se  of  reprieve, 
commutation  or  pardon  granted ;  stating  the  name 
of  the  convict,  the  crime  of  which  he  was  convic- 
ted, the  sentence  and  its  date,  and  the  dates  of  the 
commutation,  pardon  or  reprieve,  with  his  rea- 
son for  granting  the  same. 

Sec.  6.  In  case  of  the  impeachment  of  the  Gov- 
ernor, or  his  removal  from  office,  death,  inability 
to  discharge  the  powers  and  duties  of  the  said  of- 
fice, resignation  or  absence  from  the  State,  the 
powers  and  duties  of  the  ofiice  shall  devolve  upon 
the  Lieutenant-Governor  for  the  residue  of  the 
term,  or  until  the  disability  shall  cease.  But  when 
the  Governor  shall,  with  the  consent  of  the  Legis- 
lature, be  out  of  the  State  in  time  of  War,  at  the 
head  of  a  military  force  thereof,  he  shall  continue 
Commander-in-Chief  of  all  the  military  force  of 
the  State. 

Sec  7.  The  Lieutenant-Governor  shall  possess 
the  same  qualifications  of  eligibiUty  for  ofiice  as  the 
Governor.  He  shall  be  President  of  the  Senate,  but 
shall  only  have  a  casting  vote  therein.  If  during 
a  vacancy  of  the  office  of  Governor,  the  Lieuten- 
ant-Governor shall  be  impeached,  displaced,  re- 
sign, die,  or  become  incapable  of  performing  the 
duties  of  his  office,  or  be  absent  from  the  State, 
the  President  of  the  Senate  shall  act  as  Governor 
until  the  vacancy  be  filled,  or  the  disability  shall 
cease. 

Sec  S.  The  Lieutenant-Governor  shall,  while 
acting  as  such,  receive  a  compensation  which  shall 
be  fixed  by  law,  and  which  shall  not  be  increased 
or  diminished  during  his  continuance  in  office. 

Sec.  9.  Every  bill  which  shall  have  passed  the 
Senate  and  the  House  of  Representatives,  shall, 
before  it  becomes  a  law,  be  presented  to  the  Gov- 
ernor ;  if  he  approve,  he  shall  sign  it ;  but  if  not, 
he  shall  return  it  with  his  objections  to  that  House 
in  which  it  shall  have  originated,  who  shall  enter 
the  objections  at  large  on  their  journal,  and  pro- 
ceed to  reconsider  it.  If  after  such  reconsidera- 
tion, two  thirds  of  the  members  present  shall 
agree  to  pass  the  bill,  it  shall  be  sent,  together 


84 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Thursday,  Jult  23. 


with  the  objections,  to  the  other  House,  by  which 
it  shall  likewise  be  considered,  and  if  approved 
by  two-thirds  of  all  the  members  present,  it  shall 
become  a  law,  notwitlistanding  the  objections  of 
the  Governor.  But  in  all  such  cases  the  votes  of 
both  Houses  shall  be  determined  by  yeas  and  nays, 
and  the  names  of  the  members  voting  for  and 
against  the  bill,  shall  be  entered  on  the  journal  of 
each  House  respectively.  If  any  bill  shall  not  be 
returned  by  the  Governor  within  three  da\'s  (Sun- 
days excepted)  after  it  shall  have  been  presented 
to  him,  the  same  shall  be  u  law,  in  like  manner  as 
if  he  had  signed  it,  unless  the  Legislature  shall, 
by  their  adjournment,  prevent  the  return ;  in 
which  case  it  shall  not  be  a  law. 

And  then  on  motion  of  Mr.  GALBRATTH, 
(at  eleven  o'clock  and  fifteen  minutes)  the 
Convention  adjourned. 


TENTH  DAY. 

Thcbsday,  July  23,  1857. 
The  Convention  met  at  nine  o'clock,  a.  m 
The  Journal  of  yesterday  was   read  and 
approved. 

REPORT   OF    COMMITTEE. 

Mr.   SECOMBE,  from  the  committee  on 

Public  Property  and  Expenditures,  made  the 

following  partial  report,  which  was  read  a 

first  and  second  time,  and  laid  upon  the  table 

to  be  printed,  viz : 

The  committee  on  Public  Property  and  Expendi- 
tures, to  whom  was  referrea  a  resolution  in  re- 
lation to  the  propositions  of  Congress  contain- 
ed in  the  fifth  section  of  the  Enabling  Act, 
and  the  subject  matter  thereof,  have  given  their 
consideration  to  the  same,  and  beg  leave  to  re- 
port the  accompanying  dralt.  of  an  article  on  the 
said  subject ;  and  ask  leave  to  report  at  a  future 
time  on  the  other  matters  properly  coming  be- 
fore them. 

PHOPOSITIOXS   OF  COXGRESS. 

The  propositions  contained  in  the  fifth  section  of 
the  Act  of  Congress,  entitled  "An  Act  to  author- 
ise the  people  of  the  Territory  of  Minnesota  to 
form  a  Constitution  and  State  Government,  pre- 
paratory to  their  admission  into  the  Union  on  an 
equal  footing  with  the  original  States,"  and  each 
of  the  same,  are  hereby  freely  accepted,  ratified 
and  confirmed :  and  it  is  hereby  ordained,  irrevo- 
cably without  the  consent  of  the  United  States, 
that  the  State  of  Minnesota  shall  never  interfere 
with  the  primary  disposal  of  the  soil  within  the 
name  by  the  United  States,  or  with  any  regulations 
Congress  may  find  necessary  for  securing  the  title 
in  said  soil  to  bona  fide  purchasers  thereof;  and 
that  no  tax  shall  be  imposed  on  lands  belonging  to 
the  United  States ;  and  that  in  no  case  shall  non- 
resident proprietors  be  taxed  higher  than  resi- 
dantf. 


ORGANIZATION    OF   REPRESENTATIVE    BODIES. 

Under  the  order  of  business,  the  resolution 
offered  by  Mr.  FOLSOM  yest  rday  in  refer- 
ence to  the  mode  of  organizing  representative 
bodies,  was  taken  up  and  reported  to  the  Con- 
vention. 

Mr.  WILSON.  Will  not  the  subject  mat- 
ter of  that  resolution  come  directly  and  natu- 
ally  before  the  committee  on  Amending  and 
Revising  the  Constitution?  I  think  it  will, 
and  that  it  includes  a  very  great  part  of  their 
duty.  To  adopt  the  resolution  would  be  to 
take  awfiy  the  duties  of  a  standing  committee 
and  give  them  to  a  select  one.  I  am  opposed 
to  that,  and  especially  as  it  takes  all  their 
duties  away. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  agree  fully  with  the 
gentlemen  from  Winona.  I  therefore  move 
that  the  resolution,  and  the  subject  matter 
thereof,  be  referred  to  the  committee  on 
Amending  and  Revising  the  Constitution. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  In  order  that  the 
committees  may  have  time  to  work,  I  move 
that  the  Convention  now  adjourn. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  would  inquire  if  the 
report  of  the  committee  on  the  Preamble  and 
Bill  of  Rights  has  been  printed. 

The  PRESIDENT.  The  chair  is  informed 
that  it  has  been,  and  will  be  here  in  a  few 
minutes. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  It  wiU  be  impossible 
to  act  upon  it  to  day,  even  if  it  is  printed . 
We  shall  need  time  for  examining  it  outside 
of  the  Convention,  before  we  proceed  to  act 
upon  it.     I  think  we  had  better  adjourn. 

The  motion  to  adjourn  was  not  agreed  to. 

LEGISLATIVE   DEPART.MENT. 

Mr.  NORTH,  from  the  committee  on  the 
Legislative  Department,  made  the  following 
report,  which  was  read  a  first  and   second 
time  and  laid  upon  the  table  to  be  printed,  viz : 
The  committee  on  the  Legislative  Department  beg 
leave  to  report  the  following  article  for  incorpo- 
ration into  the  Constitution : 
Sec.  1.    The  legislative  power  of  this  State  shall 
be  vested  in  a  Senate  and  House  of  Representa- 
tives, which  shall  be  designated  as  the  Legislature 
of  the  Stale  of  Minnesota. 

Sec.  2.  The  Senate  shall  consist  of  not  less  than 
twenty-four,  nor  more  than  thirty-two  members 
The  House  of  Representatives  shall  consist  of  not 
less  than  sixty-four,  nor  Inore  than  one  hundred 
members.  , 

Sec.  3.  In  the  year  one  thousand  eight  hundred 
•nd  sixty-five,  and  every  tenth  year  thereafter,  »■ 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Thcrsdat,   July  23. 


85 


enumeration  of  all  the  inhabitants  of  this  State 
shall  be  made  ij  such  manner  as  shall  be  directed 
by  law  ;  and  in  the  year  one  thousand  eight  hun- 
dred and  sixtv,  and  everj-  tenth  year  thereafter, 
the  census  taken  by  the  authority  of  the  Govern- 
ment of  the  United  States,  shall  be  adopted  by  the 
Legislature  as  the  enumeration  of  this  State;  and 
at  the  first  regular  session  of  the  Legislature, 
holden  after  the  returns  of  each  census  herein  pro- 
vided for  are  made,  the  several  districts  for  the 
election  of  senators  and  representatives  shall  be 
established  and  apportioned  by  law  according  to 
the  number  of  inhabitants. 

Sec.  4.  The  members  of  the  House  of  Repre- 
sentatives shall  be  chosen  annually,  one  from  each 
representative  district,  on  the  Tuesday  succeeding 
the  first  Monday  of  October,  by  the  qualified  elec- 
tors of  the  several  districts ;  such  districts  to  be 
bounded  by  county,  precincts,  town  or  ward  lines, 
to  consist  of  contiguous  territory,  and  to  be  in  as 
compact  a  form  as  practicable. 

Sec.  5.  The  senators  shall  also  be  chosen  by 
single  districts  of  convenient  contiguous  territory 
at  the  same  time  the  members  of  the  House  of 
Representatives  are  required  to  be  chosen,  and  in 
the  same  manner,  and  no  representative  district 
shall  be  divided  in  the  formation  of  a  senate  dis- 
trict. The  senate  districts  shall  be  numbered  m 
regular  series,  and  the  senators  chosen  by  the  dis- 
tricts designated  by  odd  numbers  shall  go  out  of 
office  at  the  expiration  of  the  first  year,  and  the 
senators  chosen  by  the  districts  designated  by  even 
numbers,  shall  go  out  of  office  at  the  expiration  of 
the  second  year ;  and  thereafter  the  senators  shall 
be  chosen  for  the  term  of  two  years,  except  that 
there  shall  be  an  entire  new  election  of  all  the  sen- 
ators at  the  election  next  succeeding  each  new 
apportionment  provided  for  in  the  third  section  of 
this  article. 

Sec.  6.  The  first  session  of  the  Legislature  af- 
ter the  adoption  of  this  constitution,  and  each  ses- 
sion immediately  succeeding  the  return  of  the 
census  provided  for  in  this  article,  shall  not  ex- 
tend beyond  the  term  of  ninety  days.  No  other  re- 
gular session  shall  extend  beyond  the  term  of 
sixty  days,  nor  any  special  session  beyond  the  term 
of  forty  days.  The  Legislature  shall  meet  at  the 
seat  of  government  on  the  first  Wednesday  in 
January  of  each  year,  and  not  oftener  unless  con- 
vened by  the  Governor. 

Sec.  7.  Xo  person  shall  be  eligible  to  the  Legis- 
lature who  shall  not  be  a  citizen  of  the  United 
States,  who  shall  not  have  resided  within  the  state 
one  year  next  preceding  his  election,  or  who  shall 
not  be  a  qualified  elector  in  the  district  which  he 
may  be  chosen  to  represent. 

Sec.  8.  Each  House  shall  be  the  judge  of  the 
elections,  returns  and  qualifications  of  its  own 
members,  and  a  majority  of  each  shall  constitute  a 
quorum  to  do  business,  but  a  smaller  number  mav 
adjourn  from  daj  to  day,  and  maj  compel  the  at- 


tendance of  absent  members  in  such  manner  and 
under  such  penalties  as  each  House  may  provide. 
Sec.  y.  Each  House  may  determine  the  rules  of 
its  own  proceedings,  punish  for  contempt  or  dis- 
orderly behavior,  and  with  the  concurrence  of  two 
thirds  of  all  the  members  elected,  expel  a  member; 
but.no  member  shall  be  expelled  a  second  time  for 
the  s.^me  cause. 

Sec.  10.  Each  House  shall  choose  its  own  offi- 
cers, and  the  Senate  shall  choose  a  temporary 
President  when  the  Lieutenant  Governor  shall  not 
attend  as  President,  or  shall  act  as  Governor. 

Sec.  11.  Each  House  shall  keep  a  Journal  of  its 
proceedings,  and  shall  publish  the  same,  except 
such  parts  as  require  secrecy.  The  doors  of  each 
House  shall  be  kept  open,  except  when  the  public 
welfare  requires  secrecy.  Neither  House  shall, 
without  the  consent  of  the  other,  adjourn  for  more 
than  three  days. 

Sec.  12.  Xo  member  of  the  Legislature  shall, 
during  the  term  for  which  he  was  elected,  be  ap- 
pointed or  elected  to  any  civil  office  in  the  State, 
which  shall  have  been  created,  or  the  emoluments 
of  which  shall  have  been  increased  during  the  term 
for  which  he  was  elected. 

Sec.  13.  Xo  person  being  a  jnember  of  Con- 
gress, or  holding  any  military  or  civU  office  under 
the  United  States,  (postmasters  receiving  a  com- 
pensation of  not  over  five  hundred  dollars  per 
annum  excepted,)  shall  be  elligible  to  a  iseat  in  the 
Legislature:  and  if  any  person  shall,  after  his 
election  as  a  member  of  the  Legislature,  be  elected 
to  Congress,  or  be  appointed  to  any  office,  civil  or 
military,  under  the  Government  of  the  United 
States,  (the  office  of  postmaster  at  a  compensation 
of  not  over  five  hundred  dollars  per  annum  ex- 
cepted,) his  acceptance  thereof  shall  vacate  his 
seat. 

Sec.  14.  Xo  member  of  the  Legislature  or  oth- 
er State  officer  shall  be  interested,  either  directly 
or  indirectly,  in  any  contract  authorized  by  the 
Legislature  during  his  term  of  office.  Xor  shall 
the  Legislature  grant  any  extra  compensation  to 
any  public  officer,  agent,  servant  or  contractor, 
after  the  services  shall  have  been  rendered  or  the 
contract  entered  into.  Xor  shall  the  compensation 
of  any  public  officer  be  increased  or  diminished 
during  his  term  of  office. 

Sec.  15.  Members  of  the  Legislature  shall  in  all 
cases,  except  treason,  felony,  and  breach  of  the 
peace,  be  privileged  from  arrest ;  nor  shall  they  be 
subject  to  any  civil  process  during  the  session  of 
the  Legislature,  nor  for  fifteen  days  next  before 
the  commencement  and  after  the  termination  of 
each  session. 

Sec.  16.  Xo  member  of  the  Legislature  shall 
be  liable  in  any  civil  action  or  criminal  prosecu- 
tion whatever  for  words  spoken  in  debate. 

Skc.  17.  The  Governor  shall  issue  writs  of 
election  to  fill  such  vacancies  as  may  occur  in 
either  House  of  the  Legislature. 

Sec.  18.    The  style  of  the  laws  of  the  State 


86 


mNNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Thursday,  July  23. 


shall  be,  "Be  it  enacted  by  the  Legislature  of  the 
State  of  Minnesota;"  and  no  law  shall  be  enacted 
except  by  bill. 

Sec.  19.  Bills  may  originate  in  either  House  of 
the  Legislature,  and  a  bill  passed  by  one  House 
may  be  amended  or  rejected  by  the  other ;  except 
that  bills  for  raising  revenue  shall  originate  in.  the 
House  of  Representatives. 

Sec.  20.  No  private  not  local  oill,  which  may 
be  passed  by  the  Legislature,  shall  embrace  more 
than  one  subject,  and  that,  shall  be  expressed  in 
the  title. 

Sec.  21.  No  law  shall  be  revised,  altered  or 
amended  by  reference  to  its  title  only ;  but  the  act 
revised,  and  the  section  or  sections  of  the  act 
altered  or  amended  shall  be  re-enacted  and  pub- 
lished at  length. 

Sec.  22.  A  majority  of  all  the  members  elected 
to  each  House  shall  be  necessary  to  pass  every  bill 
or  joint  resolution,  and  all  bills  and  joint  resolu- 
tions shall  be  signed  by  the  presiding  officers  of 
the  respective  Houses. 

Sec.  23.  Every  bill  and  joint  resolution  except 
of  adjournment,  passed  by  the  Legislature,  shall 
be  presented  to  the  Governor  before  it  becomes  a 
law.  If  he  approve  he  shall  sign  it ;  but  if  not  he 
shall  return  it  with  his  objections  to  the  House  in 
which  it  originated,  which  shall  enter  the  objec- 
tions at  large  upon  its  Journal,  and  reconsider  it. 
On  such  reconsideration,  if  two  thirds  of  the  mem- 
bers elected  agree  to  pass  the  bill  it  shall  be  sent 
with  the  objections  to  the  other  House,  by  which  it 
shall  be  reconsidered.  If  approved  by  two-thirds  of 
the  members  of  that  House  it  shall  become  a  law.  In 
such  case  the  vote  of  both  Houses  shall  be  deter- 
mined by  the  yeas  and  nays,  and  the  names  of  the 
members  voting  for  and  against  the  bill  shall  be 
entered  on  the  Journals  of  each  House  respec- 
tively. If  any  bill  be  not  returned  by  the  Gover- 
nor within  three  days,  (Sundays  excepted,)  after  it 
has  been  presented  to  him,  the  same  shall  become 
a  law  in  like  manner  as  if  he  had  signed  it,  unless 
the  Legislature  by  their  adjournment  prevent  its 
return,  in  which  case  it  shall  not  become  a  law. 
The  Governor  may  approve,  sign  and  file  in  the 
office  of  the  secretary  of  state  within  three  daj's 
after  the  adjournment  of  the  Legislature,  any  act 
passed  during  the  last  three  days  of  the  session 
and  the  same  shall  become  a  law. 

Sec.  24.  The  yeas  and  nays  of  the  members  of 
either  House  on  any  question  shall  at  the  request  of 
one  sixth  of  those  present  be  entered  on  the  Jour- 
nal; and  any  member  of  either  House  shall  have 
the  Tight  to  protest  and  to  have  his  protest  with 
his  reasons  for  dissent  entered  upon  the  Journal. 

Sec.  25.  Every  Statute  shall  be  a  public  law, 
unless  otherwise  declared  in  the  Statute  itself. 

Sec.  20.  In  all  elections  to  be  made  by  the  Le- 
gislature the  members  thereof  shall  vote  viva  voce 
and  their  votes  shall  be  entered  on  the  Journal. 

Skc.  27.  Each  member  of  the  Legislature  shall 
receive  for  his  services  three  dollars  for  each  day's 


attendance  during  the  session,  and  ten  cents  for 
every  mile  he  shall  travel  in  going  to  and  return- 
ing from  the  place  of  the  meeting  of  the  Legisla- 
ture on  the  most  usual  route. 

Sec.  23.  The  Legislature  may  confer  upon  the 
boards  of  supervisors  or  boards  of  commissioners 
of  the  several  counties  of  the  State  and  upon  the 
corporations  of  towns  and  cities. such  powers  of  a 
local,  legislative,  and  administrative  character,  as 
they  shall  from  time  to  time  prescribe. 

Sec.  29.  The  Legislature  shall  establish  but 
one  system  of  town  and  county  government, 
which  shall  be  as  nearly  uniform  as  practicable. 

Sec.  30.  The  Legislature  shall  never  author- 
ize any  lottery,  nor  allow  the  sale  of  lotterj'  tickets. 

Sec.  31.  The  Legislature  shall  not  establish  a 
State  Paper.  Every  newspaper  in  the  State  which 
shall  publish  all  the  general  Laws  of  a  session 
within  forty  days  of  their  passage  shall  be  entitled 
to  receive  a  sum  not  exceeding  fifteen  dollars 
therefor. 

Sec.  32.  The  Legislature  may  submit  to  the 
people  any  act  for  their  ratification  or  rejection, 
and  such  act  so  submitted  shall,  if  approved  by  a 
majority  of  the  legal  voters  at  the  appointed  elec- 
tion, become  a  law. 

Sec.  33.  The  Legislature  shall  direct  by  law  in 
what  manner  and  in  what  courts  suits  may  be 
brought  against  the  State. 

Sec.  3i.  Members  of  the  Legislature  and  all 
officers  executive  and  judicial,  except  such  inferior 
officers  as  may  be  by  law  exempted,  shall,  before 
they  enter  upon  the  duties  of  their  respective  offi- 
ces, take  and  subscribe  an  oath  or  affirmation  to 
support  the  Constitution  of  the  United  States  and 
the  Constitution  of  the  State  of  Minnesota,  and 
faithfully  to  discharge  the  duties  of  their  respec- 
tive offices  to  the  best  of  their  abilitj-. 

Sec.  35.  The  Legislature  shall  determine  what 
persons  shall  constitute  the  Militia  of  the  State, 
and  may  provide  for  organizing  and  disciplining 
the  same  in  such  manner  as  shall  be  prescribed  by 
law. 

Sec.  36.  The  Legislature  may  contract  debts  to 
meet  casual  deficits  or  failures  in  the  revenue,  but 
such  debts  direct  or  contingent,  singly  or  in  the 
aggregate,  shall  not  at  any  time  exceed  five  hun- 
dred thousand  dollars;  and  the  moneys  arising 
from  loans  creating  .such  debts  shall  be  applied  to 
the  purposes  for  which  they  were  obtained,  or  to 
pay  such  debts  ;  Provided  that  the  State  may  con- 
tract debts  to  repel  invasion,  suppress  insurrection, 
or  if  hostilities  are  threatened,  provide  for  the 
public  defense. 

Sec.  37.  The  Legislature  shall  provide  for  the 
speedy  publication  of  all  statute  laws  of  a  public 
nature  and  of  such  judicial  decisions  as  it  may 
deem  expedient.  All  laws  and  judicial  decisions 
shall  be  free  for  publicalion  bj'  any  person. 

And  then  on  motion  of  Mr.  NORTH,  at 
ten  o'clock  and  30  minutes,  the  Convention 
adjourned. 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Fbiday,  July  24. 


sr 


ELE^TENTH  DAY. 

Friday,  July  24,  1857. 
The  Conrention  met  at  9  o'clock,  a.  m. 
Pmyer  by  the  Chaplain,  Rev.  E.  D.  Neill. 
The  Journal  of  yesterday  was  read  and  ap- 
proved. 

PETITIOX. 

Mr.  MANTOR  presented  the  petition  of  L. 
H.  BoxD  and  nineteen  others,  citizens  of 
Dodge  County,  praying  that,  in  framing  that  | 
portion  of  the  Constitution  relative  to  the  ; 
Sabbath,  the  liberty  and  rights  of  conscience  ! 
of  the  citizens  may  be  secured,  ic,  which  ; 
was  referred  to  the  committee  on  the  Pream-  i 
ble  and  Bill  of  Rights. 

KEPORTS   OF   CCMMITTEES. 

Mr.  COLBURN  from  the  committee  on 
Banking  and  Corporations  otlier  than  Muni- 
cipal, submitted  the  following  report  which 
was  read  a  first  and  second  time,  and  laid  on 
the  table  to  be  printed,  viz  : 

Sectiox  1.  Corporations  for  Banking.purposes, 
with  the  necessary  powers  and  privileges  may  be 
formed  under  the  g-meral  laws,  but  shall  not  be 
created  by  special  enactment. 

Sec  2.  If  a  general  banking  law  shall  be  en- 
acted, it  shall  provide  for  the  registry  and  coun- 
tersigning, by  an  oflScer  of  State,  of  all  bills  or 
paper  credit,  designed  to  circulate  as  money,  and 
require  security  to  the  full  amount  thereof,  to  be 
deposited  with  the  State  Treasurer,  in  United 
States  Stocks,  or  in  interest  paying  stocks  of  States 
in  good  credit  and  standing,  to  be  rated  at  ten  per 
cent,  below  their  average  value  in  the  city  of  New 
York,  for  the  thirty  days  nextpreceeding  their  de- 
posit ;  and  in  case  of  a  depreciation  of  any  portion 
of  such  stocks,  to  the  amount  of  ten  per  cent,  on 
the  dollar,  the  bank  or  banks  owning  said  stocks,  i 
shall  be  required  to  make  up  such  deficiency  by  ! 
depositing  additional  stocks ;  and  said  law  shall  i 
also  provide  for  the  recording  of  the  names  of  all 
stockholders  in  such  corporations,  the  amount  of 
stock  held  by  each,  the  time  of  transfer,  and  to 
whom.  ^ 

Sec.  3.  Xo  law  shall  be  passed  sanctioning  in 
any  manner,  directly  or  indirectly,  the  suspension 
of  specie  payments,  by  any  corporation  issuing 
bank  notes  of  any  description. 

Sec.  4r.  The  stockholders  in  every  corporation 
or  association  for  banking  purposes,  issuing  any 
kind  tf  paper  credits  to  circulate  as  money,  shall 
be  individually  responsible  for  its  debts  and  lia- 
bilities of  every  kind. 

Sec.  5.  In  all  cases  of  the  insolvency  of  any 
bank  or  banking  association,  the  bill-holders  there- 
of, shall  be  entitled  to  preference  in  payment,  over 
ail  other  creditors  of  such  bank  or  association. 


Sec  6.  Corporations  for  purposes  other  than 
banking  may  be  formed  by  general  laws ;  bvit  shall 
not  be  created  by  special  act,  except  for  municipal 
purposes,  and  in  cases  where  in  the  judgement  of 
the  Legislature  the  object  of  the  corporation  can- 
not be  obtained  under  general  laws.  All  general 
laws,  or  special  acts  passed  in  pursuance  of  this 
section,  may  be  altered  from  time  to  time,  or  re- 
pealed. 

Skc.  7.  Dues  from  corporations  other  than 
banking  shall  be  secured  by  such  individual  lia- 
bility of  the  corporators,  and  other  means  as  may 
be  prescribed  by  law. 

Sec.  8.  The  State  shall  not  be  a  stockholder  in 
any  banking,  or  other  corporation ;  nor  shall  the 
credit  of  the  State  be  given  or  loaned  in  aid  of  any 
person,  association,  or  corporation. 

Sec  9.  The  term  corporations,  as  used  in  this 
article,  shall  be  construed  to  include  all  associa- 
tions and  joint  stock  companies,  having  any  of  the 
powers  or  privileges  of  corporations,  not  possessed 
by  individuals  or  partnerships.  And  all  corpora- 
tions shall  have  the  right  to  sue,  Snd  shall  be  sub- 
ject to  be  sued  in  aU  the  courts,  in  like  cases  as 
natural  persons. 

Mr.  DAVIS  firom  the  committee  on  Pun- 
ishment of  Crimes,  made  the  following  report, 
which  was  read,  a  first  and  second  time,  and 
laid  on  the  table  to  be  printed,  viz : 
Report  of  the  committee  to  whom  was  referred 

that   portion  of  the  Constitution  relating  to  the 

Punishment  of  Crimes. 

PUXISHMEXT  OP  CRIMES. 

Skctiox  1.  No  person  shall  be  held  to  answer 
for  a  capital  or  infamous  crime,  unless  on  a  pre- 
sentment or  indictment  of  a  grand  jury,  except  in 
cases  of  impeachment,  or  in  cases  cognizable  by 
a  justice  of  the  peace,  or  in  cases  arising  in  the 
army  or  navy,  or  in  the  militia,  when  in  actual  ser- 
vice, in  the  time  of  war  or  public  danger.  The 
Legislature  shall  provide  by  law  a  suitable  and  im- 
partial mode  of  selecting  juries,  and  their  usual 
number  and  unanimity,  in  indictments  and  con- 
victions, shall  be  held  indispensable. 

Sec.  2.  In  all  criminal  .prosecutions,  the  party 
accused  shall  enjoy  the  right  of  a  speedy  and  public 
trial,  by  an  impartial  jury  of  the  State  and  County 
wherein  the  crime  shall  have  been  committed,  and 
to  be  informed  of  the  nature  and  cause  of  the  ac- 
cusation ;  to  be  confronted  with  the  witnesses 
against  him ;  to  have  compulsory  process  for  se- 
curing the  attendence  of  witnesses  in  his  favor, 
and  to  have  the  assistance  of  counsel  for  his  de- 
fense. 

Sec  3.  Sanguinary  laws  shall  not  be  passed ; 
excessive  bail  shall  not  be  required,  nor  excessive 
fines  imposed;  cruel  and  unusual  punishments  shall 
not  be  inflicted,  and  all  penalties  shall  be  propor- 
tioned to  the  nature  of  the  offence. 

Sec  4.  All  persons,  before  conviction,  shall  be 
bailable,  except  for  capital  offences  where  the 
proot  is  evident,  or  the  presumption  great. 


88 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Friday,  July  24. 


Sec.  5.  The  privilege  to  the  writ  of  liaheas  cor- 
pus shall  in  no  ciise  be  suspended  in  this  State  un- 
less when,  in  ease  of  rebellion  or  invasion,  the 
public  safety  may  require  it. 

Sec.  6.  No  per.son  arrested  or  confined  in  jail 
shall  be  treated  with  cruelty  or  unnecessary  rigor. 

Sec.  7.  Treason  against  this  State  consists  only 
in  levying  war  against  it,  adhering  to  its  enemies 
and  giving  them  aid  and  comfort.  No  person  shall 
be  convicted  of  treason,  unless  on  the  testimony 
of  two  witnesses  to  the  same  overt  act,  or  confes- 
sion in  open  court. 

Sec.  8.  No  person  shall  be  subject  to  corporal 
punishment  iinier  military  law,  except  such  as  are 
emploj'ed  in  the  army  or  navy,  or  in  the  military 
when  in  actual  service  in  time  of  war  or  public 
danger. 

Sec.  9.  No  person  for  the  same  offence  shall  be 
twice  put  in  jeopardy  of  life  or  limb ;  nor  shall  he 
be  compelled  in  any  criminal  case  to  bear  witness 
against  himself. 

Sec.  10.  In  all  criminal  cases  whatever,  the 
jury  shall  have  a  right  to  determine  the  law  and 
the  facts. 

Sec.  11.  The  Legislature  may  authorize  trial 
by  jury  of  a  less  number  than  twelve  men  in  the 
inferior  courts  of  this  State. 

Sec.  12.  The  penal  code  shall  be  founded  on 
the  principles  of  reformation,  and  not  of  vindic- 
tive justice. 

Mr.  PERKINS,  from  the  committee  on 
Boundaries,  made  the  following  report,  which 
was  read  a  first  and  second  time  and  laid  on 
the  table  to  be  printed,  viz : 

The  committee  on  Boundaries  beg  leave  to  re- 
port the  following  Article,  and  recommend  its 
adoption  into  the  Constitution  of  the  State  of 
Minnesota : 

It  is  hereby  ordained  and  declared  that  the  State 
of  Minnesota  doth  consent  to  and  accept  of  the 
boundaries  prescribed  in  the  Act  of  Congress  en- 
titled "An  Act  to  enable  the  people  of  Minnesota 
to  form  a  Constitution  and  State  Government  pre- 
paratory to  their  admission  into  the  Union  on  an 
equal  footing  with  the  original  States.  Approved 
March  3d,  1857."  Beginning  at  the  point  in  the 
centre  of  the  main  channel  of  the  Red  River  of 
the  North,  where  the  boundary  lino  between  the 
United  States  and  the  British  Possessions  crosses 
the  same ;  thence  up  the  main  channel  of  said  riv- 
er to  that  of  the  Bois  des  Sioux  River ;  thence 
up  the  main  channel  of  said  River  to  Lake 
Traverse ;  thence  up  the  centre  of  said  lake  to 
the  southern  extremity  thereof;  thence  in  a  di- 
rect line  to  the  head  of  Big  Stone  Lake  ;  thence 
through  its  centre  to  its  outlet;  thence  by  a 
due  south  line  to  the  north  line  of  the  State  of 
Iowa ;  thence  along  the  northern  boundary  of  said 
State  to  the  main  channel  of  the  Mississippi  River ; 
thence  up  the  main  channel  of  said  river,  and  fol- 
lowing the  boundary  line  of  the  State  of  Wiscon- 
sin until  the  same  intersecta  the  St.  Louis  River ; 


thence  down  the  said  river  to  and  through  Lake 

Superior  on  the  boundary  line  of  Wise;  nsin  and 

Michigan,  until  it  intersects  the  dividing  line  be- 

!   tween  the  United  States  and  the  British  posses- 

T  sions ;  thence  up  the  Pigeon  River,  and  following 

'   said  dividing  line  to  the  place  of  beginning. 

OSCAR  F.  PERKINS, 
j  SAMUEL  W   PUTNAM, 

j  L.  K.  STANNARD, 

I  SIMEON  HARDING. 

!  Mr,  McCLURE  offered  the  following  reso- 
i  lution,  which  was  read,  considered,  and  agreed 
'  to,  viz : 

Whereas,  It  has  been  reported  that  in  the  Sev- 
I  enth  Council  District  (which  includes  Pembina) 
no  election  was  held  for  the  election  of  Delegates 
to  this  Convention  ;  and  whereas,  it  is  also  report- 
ed that  certain  persons,  some  of  whom  reside  in 
that  District,  and  others  in  Minneapolis,  (without 
said  District,)  have  obtained  certificates  of  election 
to  this  Convention ;  therefore, 
1  Resolved,  That  a  committee  of  three  be  appointed 
by  the  President  of  this  Convention,  whose  duty 
it  shall  be  to  procure  from  the  Secretary  of  this 
Territory  a  certified  copy  of  the  returns  of  said 
election  by  the  Register  of  Deeds  to  this  office,  and 
that  said  committee  be  further  empowered  to  as- 
certain the  fact  whether  an  election  was  held  in 
said  Seventh  Council  District  on  the  first  Monday 
of  June,  eighteen  hundred  and  fifty-seven,  for  the 
election  of  delegates  to  this  Convention  ;  and  that 
they  report  to  this  Convention  at  as  early  a  day  as 
possible. 

The  PRESIDENT  thereupon  appointed  as 
such  committee,  Messrs.  McClure,  Foster 
and  Stannard. 

PREAMBLE    AND   BILL    OF   RIGHTS. 

On  motion  of  Mr.  SECOMBE,  the  Conven- 
tion resolved  itself  into  a  committee  of  the 
Whole,  Mr.  Staxnard  in  the  Chair,  on  the 
report  of  the  committee  to  whom  was  refcrrd 
that  portion  of  the  Constitution  relating  to 
the  Preamble  and  Bill  of  Rights,  [  For  report 
see  proceedings  of  the  2 1st  of  July.]  The 
report  was  read  by  clauses,  and  amendments 
offered  and  discussed  as  follows : 

"Preamble.  We  the  people  of  the  State  of 
Minnesota,  grateful  to  God  for  our  civil  and  reli- 
gious liberty  and  desiring  to  perpetuate  its  bless- 
ings and  secure  the  same  to  ourselves  and  our 
posterity,  do  ordain  and  establish  this  Constitu- 
tion." 

Mr.  GALBRAITH  moved  to  strike  out  all 
between  the  word  "Minnesota"  and  the  word 
"do." 

Mr.  NORTH.  I  hope  that  amendment 
will  not  be  adopted.    I  like  that  part  of  th» 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Fbidat,  Jult  34. 


aa 


preamble.  I  like  that  recognition  of  a  higher 
power,  in  all  our  Constitutions,  as  the  source 
from  which  our  civil  rights  come.  I  know  it 
is  the  modern  doctrine  that  there  is  no  higher 
law  than  an  assemblage  of  men  who  meet  to 
make  laws  for  the  people.  But  I  think  a 
moment's  reflection  will  convince  any  man  of 
the  folly  of  such  an  idea,  and  I  think,  in 
order  to  procure  a  correct  idea  upon  this  sub- 
ject, there  should  be  such  a  recognition  in 
the  preamble  of  the  Constitution  itself. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  I  tliink  that  verbiage 
in  a  Constitution  is  objectionable,  and  to  stuff 
it  with  self-evident  truths  is  of  no  account 
whatever.  I  see  in  this  preamble,  evidence  of 
the  ancient  land  marks, — a  set  of  words 
which  have  no  immediate  connection  with  the 
Constitution.  There  is  no  man  here  but 
recognizes  a  Divine  Providence,  but  why  put 
that  in  this  Constitution ;  what  has  it  to  do 
with  the  Constitution  ?  We  were  sent  here 
to  frame  a  Constitution  for  the  people,  and  let 
us  do  that  and  avoid  other  matters.  It  is  not 
to  be  presumed  that  we  do  not  recognize  an 
overruling  Providence.  Hence  this  clause  is 
unnecessary. 

Mr.  HAYDEN.  I  think  that  we  shoul(% 
in  this  preamble,  recognize  a  higher  power, 
and  if  we  refuse  to  do  so,  the  people  we  rep- 
resent will  call  us  to  account.  I  am  confi- 
dent that  the  people  of  the  Territory  recognize 
a  higher  power  than  the  law  of  the  land; 
and  the  will  of  God,  upon  which  all  just  law 
is  based,  and  his  kindness,  mercy  and  good- 
ness to  us,  in  permitting  us  to  enjoy  our  civil 
and  religious  privileges,  should  be  recog- 
nized by  us  in  the  very  commencement  of 
our  work. 

The  amendment  was  not  agreed  to. 

Sec.  3.  Every  person  may  freely  speak,  write 
and  publish  his  sentiments  on  all  subjects,  being 
responsible  for  the  abuse  of  right ;  and  no  laws 
shall  be  passed  to  restrain  or  abridge  the  liberty 
of  speech  or  of  the  press.  In  all  criminal  prose- 
cutions or  indictments  for  libel  the  truth  may  be 
given  in  evidence :  and  if  it  shall  appear  to  the 
jury  that  the  matter  charged  as  libelous  be  true, 
and  was  published  with  good  motives  and  for  jus- 
tifiable ends,  the  party  shall  be  acquitted  j  and  the 
jury  shall  have  the  right  to  determine  the  law  and 
the  fact. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.     I  move  to  insert  after 
the  word  "libel,"  the  words  "or  slander," 
and  after  the  word  "libelous,"  the  words  "  or 
Blanderous." 
12 


The  amendment  was  adopted. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  move  that  aU  of  the 
section  after  the  word  "press"  be  stricken 
out.  To  show  the  object  of  my  amendment 
I  will  state  that  I  think  the.  bill  of  rights 
should  be  a  simple  statement  of  rights,  and 
that  we  should  avoid  in  it  everything  of  a 
legislative  nature.  We  have  a  committee 
upon  the  Punishment  of  Crimes,  and  the  lat- 
ter part  of  this  section  embraces  a  subject 
which  will  properly  come  under  the  cogni- 
zance of  that  committee.  It  also  seems  to 
partake  of  the  nature  of  legislation  rather 
than  of  a  declaration  of  rights.  The  first 
part  of  the  section  is  a  simple  declaration  of 
rights,  while  the  latter  part  seems  to  go  far- 
ther than  that. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  We  should  be  care- 
ful in  forming  a  Constitution  to  form  it  in  as 
simple  terms  as  possible.  Fill  our  Constitu- 
tion with  so  much  superfluous  matter,  and  it 
will  be  more  than  all  the  men  in  the  world 
can  do  to  explain  what  it  means.  Here  is  an 
endeavor  to  legislate  in  the  Constitution. 
Now  a  Constitution  should  be  a  system  of 
abstract  principles, — something  like  the  Con- 
stitution of  the  United  States, — and  from 
those  principles  should  be  deduced  the  proper 
legislation  of  the  country.  Adopt  the  latter 
part  of  this  section,  and  we  tie  up  the  future 
legislation  of  the  country  upon  this  subject. 
The  views  of  men  may  change,  and  our  laws 
may  change  accordingly.  I  have  never  yet 
come  to  the  conclusion  that  a  written  libd 
should  be  tolerated  in  any  community.  Not 
because  it  is  an  injury  done  to  a  person  indi- 
vidually, but  because  it  is  a  criminal  act 
tending  to  excite  riot  and  a  breach  of  the 
peace.  It  may  be  true  that  the  greater  the 
truth  the  greater  the  Ubel,  as  declared  by  the 
doctrine  of  the  old  common  law.  A  man 
may  stick  up  in  the  streets  obscene  carica- 
tures upon  me.  They  may  be  true  represen- 
tations, but  they  may  be  disgraceful,  and  may 
excite  riot,  and  under  the  clause  as  it  now 
stands  every  thing  may  be  done  to  justify 
the  act  This  striking  out  all  the  old  land 
marks  is  a  dangerous  operation  at  the  best. 
We  should  consider  calmly  and  wisely  before 
we  attempt  to  do  this  thing.  Men  in  these 
days  have  got  to  be  wiser  than  what  is  writ- 
ten, and  the  ancient  land  marks  are  being 
torn  down.     It  puts  me  in  mind  of  thow 


•80 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Fbidat,  July  24. 


wise  men  who  last  winter  made  the  Dred 
Scott  decision.  They  had  Become  wiser 
than  the  men  who  framed  the  Constitution. 
Adams  and  Jefferson  and  other  great  men  did 
think  the  prohibition  of  slavery  Constitutional, 
but  those  wise-acres  got  new  light — I  sup- 
pose spiritualism  gave  it  to  them — and  they 
decided  that  those  who  framed  the  Constitu- 
tion knew  nothing  about  it.  That  is,  that 
the  potter  is  no  better  than  the  clay  which 
he  fashions — the  principle  of  the  quack  doc- 
tor who  declares  that  he  knows  more  of  the 
human  system  than  Heaven  which  made  it. 
Let  us  insert  in  our  bill  of  rights  simple  ab- 
stract truths,  and  let  the  wisdom  of  legisla- 
tion act  upon  them. 

"  In  all  criminal  prosecutions  or  indictment 
"  for  libel  or  slander "  is  the  reading  of  the 
section  as  it  now  stands.  Is  there  a  lawyer 
in  Minnesota  who  ever  heard  of  an  indictment 
for  slander — words  simply  spoken?  If  so, 
when  and  where  ?  Who  ever  heard  of  it  in 
the  United  States  ? 

"  The  jury  shall  have  the  right  to  determine 
"the  law  and  the  fact."  That  is  another 
new  fangled  notion.  Why,  the  next  thing 
will  be  to  abolish  all  our  Judge's  oflBces. 
What  do  we  elect  Judges  for  if  it  is  not  that 
they  may  instruct  the  jury  what  the  law  is  ? 
The  jury  determine  the  law  and  fact !  Why, 
they  are  not  presumed  to  know  the  l^w,  and 
they  do  not  pretend  to  know  it.  I  never 
•knew  a  jury  who  did  not  have  enough  to  do 
to  determine  the  facts.  I  believe  the  Consti- 
tution of  the  United  States  prohibits  any  such 
course  of  proceeding.  It  is  going  too  far. 
We  had  better  abolish  the  office  of  Judges  at 
•once.  It  has  been  argued  that  juries  have 
the  right  to  determine  the  law  and  the  fact  in 
cri  i.inal  cases.  Now  suppose  they  disregard 
the  instructions  of  the  Judge  in  a  criminal 
case,  and  they  find  an  innocent  person 
guilty ;  or  suppose  the  law  declares  that  such 
and  such  an  act  shall  be  deemed  larceny,  and 
the  Judge  so  expounds  the  statute  to  the  jury ; 
is  a  juror  to  disregard  the  instruction  in  the 
one  case,  and  may  he  hop  up  and  declare 
that  is  not  larceny  in  the  other  ?  He  might 
shield  his  course  under  such  a  provision  as 
this  in  the  Constitution,  if  we  adopt  it. 

Mr.  NORTH.  It  is  a  little  surprising  to 
me  that  the  gentleman  should  be  opposed  to 
«ny  new  ideas,  and  should  cling  to  the  past 


as  the  only  safe  course  by  which  to  be  gov- 
erned. I  believe  that  the  world  is  growing 
wise,  and  that  this  generation  knows  more 
than  the  past  one.  If  there  is  new  light,  it 
becomes  us  to  avail  ourselves  of  it ;  and  if 
there  are  old  errors  and  wrongs,  it  becomes 
us  to  avoid  them.  It  does  not  necessarily 
follo^v  that  because  we  find  a  new  thing,  we 
should  swaUow  it  good  or  bad,  but  the  gen- 
tleman clings  to  the  old  doctrine  that  the 
greater  the  truth  the  greater  the  libel,  and  I 
must  confess  that  I  am  surprised  that  any 
gentleman  in  this  age  should  advocate  such 
an  idea.  It  may  become  necessary  for  a  man 
to  publish,  for  the  good  of  the  people,  the 
crimes  committed  by  certain  criminals  in  the 
community.  Papers  may  publish  them,  peo- 
ple may  speak  of  them  in  the  terms  befitting 
the  crimes ;  and  the  criminal  turns  round  and 
prosecutes  for  libel.  The  publisher  may  say 
the  publication  is  true,  and  it  is  for  the  inter- 
est of  the  people  to  know  the  facts.  "  It 
"makes  no  difference,"  says  the  criminal, 
"  the  gi'eater  the  truth  the  greater  the  libel. 
"If  it  is  true  that  I  am  the  consummate 
"  scoundrel  you  represent  me,  the  greater  the 
k*  penalty  that  shall  fall  upon  you."  That  is 
a  beautiful  system  to  retain  in  our  Constitu- 
tion. It  seems  to  me  that  the  principle  is 
perfectly  absurd.  A  year  or  two  ago  the 
Mayor  of  New  York  issued  a  proclamation  in 
reference  to  the  knavery  of  the  mock  auction 
shops  of  that  city,  and  cautioning  the  public 
to  be  on  their  guard  against  them.  One  of 
them,  a  little  more  impudent  than  the  rest, 
pitched  into  the  Mayor  and  prosecuted  him* 
Now  upon  the  principle,  "  the  greater  the 
"  truth  the  greater  the  libel,"  the  penalty 
against  the  Mayor  would  have  been  pretty 
heavy.  The  greater  the  criminal  is,  the 
greater  the  penalty  he  can  recover  in  such  a 
case. 

As  to  the  jury  being  judge  of  the  law  as 
well  as  of  the  fact,  it  is  a  little  surprising  that 
the  gentleman  should  regard  that  as  a  new 
idea.  It  is  a  very  old  one,  and  though  there 
is  a  difference  among  lawyers,  and  among 
judges  upon  the  propriety  of  that  course,  it 
has  been  acted  upon,  and  the  courts  have 
sustained  it  for  a  very  long  time.  If  it  is  a 
good  one,  it  ought  to  be  retained.  The  gen- 
tleman asks  what  is  the  use  of  having  judges. 
The  Drcd  Scott  decision  shows  that  judges 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Fbiday,  July  24. 


91' 


I 


are  not  infallible — judges  are  imperfect  as  well 
as  jurors, — and  if  we  are  to  have  a  Jeffries 
or  a  Lecompte  upon  the  bench  to  rule  as 
some  corrupt  judges  have  ruled  in  times  past, 
I  hope  the  jury  will  have  power  to  decide 
upon  the  law  as  well  as  the  fact,  and  thereby 
save  the  people  from  the  consequence  of 
such  corrupt  ruling  upon  the  part  of  judges. 
I  am  more  williing  to  trust  power  in  the  hands 
of  the  people,  than  I  am  to  one  or  two  indi- 
viduals. If  there  is  danger  of  wrong,  that 
danger  is  less  as  the  power  is  divided  among 
a  greater  number. 

But  I  like  the  suggestion  of  the  gentleman 
at  my  right,  (Mr.  Colburn),  in  regard  to 
leaving  this  latter  clause  of  the  section  to  be 
incorporated  into  that  subsequent  part  of  the 
Constitution  which  shall  treat  of  crimes  and 
punishments  ;  and  I  hope  that  disposition  will 
be  made  of  it. 

Mr.  BALCOilBE.  Both  those  who  have 
spoken  in  favor  of  the  retention  of  the  clause 
as  reported  by  the  committee,  and  those  in 
favor  of  striking  it  out,  have  spoken  as  though 
this  provision  was  something  new  and  unus- 
ual. I  find  in  the  Constitutions  of  Maine, 
Ohio,  Wisconsin,  and  other  States,  provis- 
ions and  language  similar  to  this.  I  do  not 
rise  to  discuss  the  propriety  of  retaining  tliis 
clause  in  om*  Constitution,  but  simply  to  dis- 
abuse the  minds  of  those  who  might  be 
impressed,  by  what  has  been  said,  with  the 
idea  that  this  provision  is  new.  On  the  con- 
trary I  believe  that  nearly  one-half  of  the 
States  of  the  Union  havq,  in  their  bill  of  rights 
language  very  similar  to  this. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  Certainly  if  this  pre- 
vision is  to  be  retained,  it  ought  not  to  be  here. 
I  labor  under  the  difficulty  of  being  some- 
what old  fogyish  in  my  views  upon  this  mat- 
ter. Such  a  thing  as  an  indictment  for  slan- 
der was  never  heard  of.  An  indictment  for 
libel  is  a  different  tiling.  That  is  a  public 
offence,  and  no  damages  are  claimed  under 
an  indictment.  The  indictment  is  for  the 
purpose  of  punishing  a  pubUc  offence — for 
the  disturbance  of  the  public  peace.  Dama- 
ges for  a  libel  are  to  be  recovered  in  a  civil 
suit. 

Mr.  WILSON.  I  am  in  favor  of  this  sec- 
tion as  reported  by  the  committee,  but  I 
think  it  should  not  be  placed  In  the  Bill  of 
Rights,  but  in  another  part  of  the  Constitu- 


tion. I  was  somewhat  astonished  that  a  law- 
yer, like  my  friend  who  has  spoken  against 
this  clause  so  eloquently  and  forcibly,  should 
speak  about  the  common  law  as  a  standard 
which  we  could  not  make  any  better.  Were 
I  but  to  read  some  of  the  decisions  which  have 
been  made  under  the  common  law,  that  law 
would  seem  ridiculous  to  every  man  here. 
The  doctrine  of  that  law  that  the  greater  the 
crime,  the  greater  the  libel,  will  not  bear  the 
test  of  reason  in  these  days. 

But  where  shall  we  have  this  proposed  pro- 
vision? In  the  Constitution,  or  shall  we 
leave  the  matter  to  the  Legislature  ?  Sup- 
pose the  Legislature  fails  to  pass  such  a  pro- 
vision as  this,  then  we  shall  be  under  the 
common  law.  I  say  we  should  leave  no 
chance  for  that. 

As  to  the  amendments  inserting  "  slander  " 
and  "slanderous,"  I  have  no  doubt  the  Con- 
vention will,  upon  looking  at  the  matter  more 
carefully,  say  they  should  not  be  inserted. 
I  would  wish  to  amend  in  the  last  line  by  in- 
serting after  the  word  "law"  the  words, 
"under  the  direction  of  the  court."  Now  at- 
torneys come  before  a  jury  and  one  states  the 
law  in  one  way,  and  the  other  in  another  way. 
But  the  court  will  be  impartial,  and  a  jury 
after  hearing  his  statement  of  the  law  by  the 
court,  will  be  governed  by  it,  rather  than  by 
the  statement  of  the  attorneys. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  If  I  thought  this  the 
proper  time  to  discuss  the  right  of  juries  to 
determine  the  law,  I  should  offer  some  further 
considerations  upon  it.  But  I  do  not.  It 
seems  to  me  that  this  clause  should  be  strick- 
en out  of  the  Bill  of  Rights  and  should  be 
brought  before  the  Convention  at  another 
t"me,  and  in  another  form.  It  ought  to  be 
fully  discussed,  and  for  the  reason  that  I 
think  it  will  be  stricken  out  here,  and  incorpo- 
rated in  another  place,  I  wiU  say  no  more 
upon  it  now. 

Mr.  DAVIS.  I  do  not  think  this  matter 
comes  before  us  from  the  proper  committee. 
On  the  first  or  second  day  of  the  Convention 
there  was  a  select  committee  appointed  to 
take  into  consideration  the  subject  of  forming 
permanent  committees  of  this  body.  That 
committee,  of  which,  I  think,  the  chairman 
(Mr.  Coggsavell)  of  the  committee  on  the  Bill 
of  Rights  was  chairman,  reported  among  other 
thmgs  in  favor  of  a  committee  on  Punishment 


92 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Fbiday,  July  24. 


of  Crimes.  Of  that  committee  I  have  the 
honor  to  be  chairman.  Now  tliis  Committee 
on  the  Preamble  and  Bill  of  Eights,  with 
great  modesty,  have  included  in  their  report 
nearly  everything  which  would  properly  come 
under  the  consideration  of  the  committee  on 
Punishment  of  Crimes.  Upon  the  duties  and 
jurisdiction  of  how  many  other  committees 
they  have  trespassed,  I  do  not  know.  In  my 
opinion  the  course  they  have  pursued  is  an 
insult  to  the  committee  of  which  I  am  chair- 
man. I  am  therefore  in  favor  of  striking  oiit 
the  provision  here,  and  at  the  proper  time  I 
.vhall  move  to  strike  out  other  provisions  of 
this  report,  because  I  think  they  legitimately 
belong  to  the  duties  of  other  committees. 

Mr.  WILSON.  I  deem  it  proper  to  say 
here  that  the  chairman  who  reported  this 
Preamble  and  Bill  of  Rights  is  not  present, 
and  that  I  do  not  think  it  is  a  very  clear  case 
that  they  have  transcended  the  limits  of  their 
duties,  because  I  think  that  nearly  all  prece- 
dent wiU  show  that  the  subject  matter  of  this 
section  is  within  the  limits  of  their  duties, 
and  so  far  as  I  know,  it  is  incorporated  into 
the  Bill  of  Rights  of  almost  every  Constitu- 
tion I  have  examined,  which  has  a  Bill  of 
Rights.  I  am  not  in  favor  of  changing  it  un- 
til the  chairman  who  reported  it  is  present, 
and  has  an  opportunity  to  speak  for  himself. 

Mr.  NORTH.  It  is  very  common  to  have 
a  clause  similar  to  this  in  Constitutions,  and 
yet  I  think  the  best  place  for  it  is  not  in  the 
Bill  of  Rights.  I  have  no  idea  that  the  com- 
mittee had  any  idea  of  trespassing  upon  other 
committees,  for  they  have  precedents  for  in- 
serting this  provision  in  this  part  of  the  Con- 
stitution, But  I  think  it  better  to  have  it 
elsewhere,  and  therefore  I  am  in  iavor  of 
striking  it  out. 

Mr.  BALCOMBE,  I  differ  with  the  gen- 
tleman who  has  just  taken  his  seat.  If  this 
clause  is  to  be  inserted  in  the  Constitution  at 
aU,  this  is  the  proper  place.  On  perusing  the 
various  Constitutions  of  the  several  States,  I 
find  that  wherever  this  clause  is  inserted  at 
all,  it  is  contained  under  the  head  of  Bill  of 
Rights.  In  the  Now  York  Constitution  it  is 
contained  in  these  words  : 

"  Every  citizen  may  freely  speak,  write  and  pub- 
lish his  sentiments  ou  all  subjects,  being  responsi- 
ble for  the  abuse  of  that  right ;  and  no  law  shall  be 
passed  to  restrain  or  abridge  the  liberty  of  speech 


or  of  the  press.  In  all  criminal  prosecutions  or 
indictments  for  libels,  the  truth  may  be  given  in 
evidence  to  the  jury,  and  if  it  shall  appear  to  the 
jury,  that  the  matter  charged  as  libellous  is  true, 
and  was  published  with  good  motives  and  for  justi- 
fiable ends,  the  party  shall  be  acquitted,  and  the 
jury  shall  have  the  right  to  determine  the  law  and 
the  fact." 

Now  it  seems  to  me  that  this  is  the  proper 
place  for  this  clause,  if  it  is  to  be  inserted  in 
the  Constitution  at  all.  I  am  decidedly  in 
favor  of  the  clause  as  reported  by  the  com- 
mittee. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  wish  to  say  a  word  in 
regard  to  my  amendment,  which  was  adopt- 
ed, inserting  the  words  "  slander  "  and  "  slan- 
derous." 

Mr.  BALCOMBE.  I  rise  to  a  point  of  or- 
der. That  amendment  has  been  adopted,  and 
is  not  now  the  subject  of  discussion. 

The  CHAIRMAN.  The  chair  sustains  the 
point  of  order. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  would  suggest  to  the 
Chair  that  the  pending  motion  is  to  strike  out 
that  part  of  the  section  including  my  amend- 
ments, and  in  the  course  of  the  discussion 
the  fact  .that  the  amendment  was  adopted, 
has  been  used  as  an  argument  in  favor  of 
striking  out.  I  propose  to  confine  my  re- 
marks to  the  clause  as  it  now  stands.  I  find 
a  difference  of  opinion  among  men  of  the 
legal  profession  in  this  body,  on  this  point. 
The  matter  might  very  properly  be  left  as  it 
is  now,  and  let  it  be  acted  upon  when  it  is  re- 
ported to  the  Convention,  at  a  time  when  all 
the  members  of  the  Convention  shall  be 
here. 

Mr.  LOWE.  I  understand  that  this  clause 
bears  only  upon  the  case  of  libel,  whereas 
there  is  a  clause  in  a  report  of  another  com- 
mittee, which  will  come  up  hereafter,  which 
is  much  broader  and  more  comprehensive.  I 
believe  there  is  a  class  of  ideas  in  the  public 
mind  for  which  the  Republican  party,  and 
the  Anti-Slavery  party  are  being  made  re- 
sponsible, and  for  my  part  I  do  not  intend  to 
become  responsible  for  any  ideas  which  have 
no  necessary  connection  with  the  cause  for 
which  this  party  is  formed.  I  do  not  choose 
to  accept  things  because  they  are  new.  I 
shall  be  found  in  opposition  to  this  idea  of 
giving  the  jury  power  to  judge  the  law  and 
fact  in  all  cases. 
Mr.  GALBRAITH.    I  do  feel  that  thw 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Fridat,  Jclt  24. 


9S 


innovations  which  are  creeping  into  the  laws 
of  the  country,  are  robbing  the  people.     The 
whole  system  of  our  laws,  as  established  by 
a  train  of  decisions,  is  being  attacked  and 
gradually  undermined,  and  decisions  made  in 
times  long  gone  by,  by  the  greatest  judges 
the  world  ever  saw,  are  now  considered  as  no 
precedents.     Where  do  you  go  now  for  your 
decisions  upon  matters  of  law  ?     To  a  set  of  j 
young  attorneys.     Clients  are  placed  at  the  ; 
mercy  of  young  attorneys  who  frequently  j 
have  never  read  of  law  out  of  the  Territory  ! 
of  Minnesota.     There  is  a  day  coming  in  this  ! 
Convention,  when  I   hope   to   be  heard  at  ■ 
length  upon  this   subject.     The   people  are  \ 
now  at  the  mercy  of  what  is  called  the  code —  ! 
a  mass  of  contradictions  which  no  lawyer  can  [ 
fathom.     Take  that  New  York  code,  and  the  ; 
decisions  upon  it  in  the  different  districts  of  \ 
that  State,  and  in  the  court  of  appeals,  and 
decisions  in  number  one  of  Howard's  reports,  | 
are  contradicted  in  number  two.     You  read  a  j 
decision  from  one  volume  and  some  snap  of  a 
lawyer  will  get  up  and  read  a  different  decis- 
ion from  another  volume.     I  hope  this  Con- 
vention will  be  cautious  how  they  make  any 
further  innovations  upon  the  old  and  well  tried 
system. 

Mr.  NORTH.  I  do  not  suppose  the  code 
by  which  we  practice, — adopted  from  the 
State  of  New  York — is  properly  under  dis- 
cussion, but  as  it  has  been  attacked  rather 
fiercely,  I  wish  to  say  that  that  very  much 
abused  New  York  code  has  become  the 
admiration  of  the  civilized  world.  It  is 
applauded  in  England,  and  the  highest  enco- 
miums have  been  passed  upon  it  there — that 
code  which  we  were  so  unfortunate  as  to 
adopt  some  seven  years  ago.  Some  of  the 
leading  minds,  and  ablest  lawyers  of  New 
York  were  engaged  in  the  preparation  of  it. 
Graham,  of  New  York  City,  one  of  the 
ablest  lawyers  and  most  expert  practitioners, 
was  one  of  them.  It  swept  away  the  rubish 
and  fictions  of  law  which  had  accumulated 
for  centuries,  and  which  were  only  productive 
.  of  expense  to  clients.  The  old  lawyers  of 
the  State,  at  that  time,  were  mostly  opposed 
to  those  innovations,  and  some  of  them  stood 
out  stoutly  against  it.  But  no  longer  ago 
than  last  winter,  I  was  conversing  with  a  son 
of  Joshua  Spencer,  an  old  lawyer,  who  was 
originally    opposed    to   the  code.    His  son 


informed  me  that  his  father  was  written  to  by 
a  practitioner  in  Iowa  for  his  opinion  of  that 
code.  He  replied  in  a  long  letter,  passing  the 
highest  encomiums  upon  it.  'And  thus  it  has 
worked  itself  into  the  approbation  of  the  best 
l^al  minds  in  that  State. 

As  to  the  mode  in  which  that  code  has 
been  administered  here  by  our  judges,  I  have 
nothing  to  say.  I  wiU  let  the  Miimesota 
judges  speak  for  themselves. 

Mr.  KING.  This  section  is  merely  a  decla- 
ration of  rights,  and  if  we  should  exlcude  it 
from  a  place  here  because  it  will  necessarily 
find  a  place  in  another  part  of  the  Constitu- 
tion, we  ought  to  exclude  seven  eighths  of  this 
report.  Examine  every  section  of  it,  and 
you  will  find  that  nearly  all  of  them  would 
properly  be  embraced  in  the  reports  of  other 
committees  more  or  less.  I  understand  the 
bill  of  rights  to  be  merely  a  declaration  of 
certain  rights  and  privileges  which  belong  to 
the  people,  and  we  base  ovu*  Constitution  upon 
those  rights,  and  as  a  consequence  we  shall 
embrace  more  or  less  of  them  in  every  article 
of  that  Constitution.  I  am  in  favor  of  letting 
this  section  stand  as  it  is  reported ;  it  will  not 
interfere  with  the  reports  of  other  standing 
committees  in  the  least. 

Mr.  WILSON.  One  word  in  answer  to 
my  friend  fix)m  Scott  coimty,  [Mr.  Gav- 
BRAriH.]  I  do  not  claim  to  be  anything  else 
than  a  young  lawyer,  nor  have  I  ever  prac- 
ticed law  except  in  the  Territory  of  Minnesota. 
Pitching  into  the  New  York  code  seems  to  be 
the  order  of  the  day  now,  but  as  it  is,  it  is 
not  necessary  to  eulo^ze  that  code.  The 
world  is  eulogizing  it  by  adopting  it,  and  I 
hesitate  not  to  say  that  as  a  system  of  prac- 
tice, it  is  infinitely  beyond  any  thing  e\&r 
offered  to  the  world  before. 

As  to  this  matter  of  slander,  I  aver  that  no 
man  lives  who  can  take  the  laws  and  decis- 
ions of  the  State  of  Pennsylvania,  and  say 
what  the  law  of  slander  is  there ;  and  you 
cannot  get  a  good  lawyer  in  that  State  to  give 
you  a  written  opinion  upon  a  case  of  slander, 
without  his  saying  that  the  code  is  very  im- 
certain,  because  the  decisions  are  so  contra- 
dictory. Now  shall  we,  in  this  state  of  things, 
submit  to  such  uncertainty  here,  where  there 
are  frequently  political  animosities 'pervading 
he  hearts  of  our  judges,  who  ought  to  be 
incorruptible  and  uninfluenced  by  such  fe«l- 


94 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Feiday,  July  24. 


ings  ?  Shall  we  put  reputation,  standing  and 
property  all  in  the  hands  of  one  single  man? 
The  first  Constitution  in  this  book  of  Con- 
stitutions, wliich  I  hold  in  my  hand,  has  in  it 
such  a  provision  as  we  contemplate ;  and  the 
last  has  it  also,  and  it  rvms  through  most  of 
them.  But  we  need  not  to  pass  it  upon  the 
strength  of  precedent,  because  it  stands  upon 
its  own  merits,  as  weU  as  upon  precedent. 
Every  man  knows  that  it  is  wrong  to  say 
that  the  greater  the  truth  a  man  enunciates, 
the  greater  the  libel  and  the  jjunishment. 
That  needs  to  be  modified  by  circumstances 
which  may  be  presented  to  a  jury — and  that 
jury  of  twelve  men  is  the  best  tribunal  to 
say  what  amount  of  punishment  shall  be 
inflicted  upon  a  man  for  what  he  has  said. 

As  to  the  idea  of  its  being  something  new, 
it  is  entirely  without  foundation  ;  because  it 
is  found  in  the  oldest  Constitution  almost  that 
we  can  find.  "The  -greater  the  truth  the 
greater  the  libel"  has  never  been  sanctioned 
universally,  and  never  has  been  sanctioned 
by  all  the  gi'eat  legal  minds  even  in  New 
York. 

Mr.  McCLURE.  The  question  is  upon 
striking  out  all  after  the  word  "press"  not 
because  it  ought  not  to  be  inserted  in  the 
Constitution,  but  because  this  is  not  the  proper 
place.  I  am  opposed  to  striking  it  out,  and 
in  favor  of  leaving  it  just  where  it  is. 

The  subject  of  the  New  York  code  has 
been  pretty  freely  discussed  by  our  young 
friends  upon  both  sides.  I  am  neitheir  a 
young  man,  nor  a  young  lawyer,  having  lived 
more  than  half  a  century,  and  practiced  law 
upwards  of  twenty  years.  And  I  must  say 
that  did  I  desire  to  live  by  a  world  of  litiga- 
tion I  should  advocate  the  adoption  of  the 
New  York  code  everywhere,  and  upon  all  oc- 
casions, because  a  very  little  ingenuity  will 
construe  it  to  mean  anything  and  everything. 
I  can  take  it  and  make  out  a  case  to  a  jury 
which  they  cannot  resist,  and  get  a  verdict 
either  way.  Now,  I  have  passed  the  time  of 
life  when  I  care  a  great  deal  about  fun,  and 
consequently  I  am  in  favor  of  a  steady  pro- 
gressive movement.  I  am  in  favor  of  holding 
individuals  responsible  for  all  libelous  matter 
they  may  publish  ;  in  favor  of  allowing  them 
to  plead  the  truth  of  the  assertion  which  they 
have  made,  and  if  they  can  establish  it  by  le- 
gal testimony,  why  let  them  go  hence  without 


delay.  If  they  cannot,  let  the  jury  decide 
upon  the  law  and  the  fact  in  reference  to  the 
matter. 

An  amendment  was  suggested  that  the  jury 
should  be  the  judges  of  the  law  under  the 
direction  of  the  court.  I  shall  always  be 
opposed  to  anything  of  that  kind.  It  was 
once  decided  by  a  very  distinguished  judge  of 
Indiana  that  a  juror  who  disregarded  the  in- 
structions of  the  court,  was  guilty  of  perjury. 
It  was  subsequently  decided  by  a  full  bench, 
that  such  was  not  the  law,  and  that  a  juror 
might  honestly  differ  from  even  a  judge.  I 
hold  that  a  juror  should  respect  the  law  as 
given  by  a  court,  yet  that  they  have  the  right 
to  find  a  verdict  directly  contrary  to  the 
ruling  of  the  court.  If  I  were  a  juror  and  the 
judge  should  instruct  me  contrary  to  what  I 
considered  to  be  law,  I  should  feel  under  no 
obligation  to  pay  any  sort  of  attention  to  his 
instructions.  In  all  criminal  cases  the  jury 
should  have  a  perfect  right  to  decide  upon 
both  law  and  fact.  I  hope  this  provision  will 
remain  where  it  is,  and  as  it  is. 

The  question  was  then  put  upon  Mr.  Col- 
bubn's  amendment,  and  it  was  lost. 

Mr.  WILSON.  I  now  move  to  amend  by 
inserting  after  the  word  "determine"  in  the 
last  line,  the  words  "  the  facts  and  the  law 
"under  the  direction  of  the  court."  My 
amendment  will  leave  the  jury  to  determine 
everything.  They  will  not  be  bound  by  the 
court.  It  becomes  the  duty  of  the  court  to 
instruct  the  jury  as  to  what  the  law  is,  and 
the  jury  then  conclude  themselves  whether 
the  court  has  properly  instructed  them  or  not. 
The  counsel  upon  one  side  insists  that  the  law 
is  so  and  so,  while  the  counsel  upon  the  other 
side  will  insist  that  it  is  exactly  the  reverse, 
but  generally  the  instruction  of  the  judge 
would  be  much  nearer  correct,  and  more  re- 
liable than  the  diction  of  lawyers  upon  either 
side.     I  trust  the  amendment  will  Ije  adopted. 

Mr.  NORTH.  I  object  to  the  amendment 
I  think  it  makes  the  clause  vague  and  uncer- 
tain. The  object  of  the  section  is  to  make  it 
the  right  of  the  jury  to  decide  the  law  and  the 
fact.  Now  if  it  is  said  that  they  shall  have 
the  right  to  decide  it  under  the  direction  of 
the  court,  and  in  a  given  instance  they  should 
decide  the  law  contrary  to  the  instructions  of 
the  court,  might  not  this  clause  as  amended 
be  brought  up  against  them  to  show  they  did 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Fkidat,  Jult  24. 


93 


not  decide  the  law  under  the  direction  of  the 
court  ? 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  I  would  ask  what  in 
the  world  judges  are  for  ?  What  arc  their 
duties  in  criminal  cases  if  not  to  expound  the 
law  ?  Are  they  to  be  set  upon  the  bench  to 
keep  order  merely,  as  though  they  were  only 
presiding  over  a  town  meeting?  If  the  jury 
are  to  expound  the  law  why  not  abolish  the 
court,  and  fall  back  upon  first  principles?— 
restore  the  old  system  of  decision  by  battle, 
and  turn  the  parties  out  to  try  which  can 
whip  the  other. 

But  there  is  such  a  thing  as  law  now  recog- 
nized, and  if  this  levelling  system  is  to  be 
adopted,  I  hope,  before  I  am  called  upon  to 
vote  upon  it,  that  some  one  will  expound  to 
me  the  office  and  duties  of  a  judge  upon  crim- 
inal trials.  What  are  his  fimctions,  if  we 
put  into  the  Constitution  an  unbending  rule 
that  the  jury  shall  decide  the  law  and  the  fact  ? 
He  is  reduced  to  nothing  and  you  might  as 
well  set  upon  the  bench  a  block  of  wood. 
You  deprive  the  judge  of  every  function  that 
belongs  to  him  by  virtus  of  his  office  as  judge. 
But  you  say  the  judge  is  to  expound  the  law 
to  the  jury,  but  the  jury  is  not  bound  to  res- 
pect the  law.  It  is  said  judges  may  be  cor- 
rupt. There  have  been  corrupt  judges  in  the 
world,  but  have  there  not  also  been  corrupt, 
juries  ?  And  is  it  not  a  matter  of  history  that 
the  decision  of  a  jury  is  the  most  doubtful 
thing  in  the  world  ?  One  very  learned  judge 
did  say,  that  he  acknowledged  the  omni- 
science of  Divine  Providence,  but  there  were 
two  things  which  even  Providence  never  could 
know,  before  they  happened — one  was  the 
decision  of  a  traverse  jury. 

I  have  as  much  confidence  in  the  decisions 
of  the  people  as  any  man,  but  I  believe  in 
every  man's  following  his  own  business.  I 
do  not  believe  that  a  blacksmith  can  make  a 
watch.  I  do  not  like  to  see  a  man  get  above 
his  business.  When  we  look  aromid  for  a 
judge  we  endeavor  to  get  one  who  is  legally 
educated  ;  who  has  had  practice  and  experi- 
ence ;  and  who  is  supposed  to  know  all  about 
law.  When  vre  look  for  a  jury  we  seek  for 
intelligent  and  honest  men.  It  is  the  duty  of 
the  judge  to  expound  to  the  jury  what  the 
law  is,  and  he  is  the  only  fit  man  to  expound 
the  law  to  twelve  men  who  do  not  pretend  to 
know  what  the  law  is.    Who  is  the  better 


judge  of  the  law  in  a  given  case,  the  judge  or 
the  jury  ?  I  hope  we  shall  stop  and  tlaink 
before  we  adopt  this  levelmg  system,  rob  the 
court  of  all  its  character,  and  turn  it  into  a 
town  meeting. 

Take  the  works  of  that  noble  race  of  legal 
minds  which  have  run  down  the  stream  of 
time  from  the  first  establishment  of  the  com- 
mon law,  to  this  day;  take  the  works  of 
Blackstone,  and  Coke,  and  Sugden,  and  Mans- 
field, and  others, — books  now  musty  on  the 
shelves,  and  scarcely  ever  read, — and  they 
contain  an  epitome  of  the  wisdom  of  the 
world,  and  are  the  bulwarks  of  the  fiberty 
we  enjoy  to-day.  We  should  thank  God  that 
those  books  are  still  in  existence.  Deprive 
the  judges  of  their  functions,  and  it  will  be 
like  running  a  railroad  car  without  a  locomo- 
tive. Tell  me,  some  one,  what  are  to  be  the 
functions  of  a  judge  under  this  new  system. 
There  always  has  been  a  definition  of  a  judge. 
Webster's  dictionary  will  give  it.  Blackstone 
will  give  it.  The  history  of  the  world  will 
give  it.  But  you  will  wipe  them  all  out,  and 
make  out  another.  I  should  hke  to  see  it 
put  into  plain  English,  so  that  I  may  know, 
before  I  vote  for  the  clause,  what  a  judge  is 
to  be  now. 

Mr.  NORTH.  I  do  not  see  such  cause  of 
alarm  and  fear  of  a  catastrophe,  in  conse- 
quence of  adopting  tliis  good  old  provision, 
for  it  has  been  inserted  in  many  of  the  Con- 
stitutions of  our  States,  and  it  has  had  a  bene- 
ficial influence.  I  do  not  think  the  rights  of 
the  people  will  be  all  taken  away  from  them. 
As  wise  States  and  statesmen  have  adopted 
this  provision,  I  think,  if  there  were  such  evils 
as  the  gentleman  seems  to  anticipate,  we 
should  have  been  likely  to  have  found  them 
out  before  this.  The  gentleman  tells  us  that 
lawyers  and  the  judiciary  are  the  guardians 
of  the  people's  rights,  and  have  been ;  and  he 
runs  back  to  the  time  of  Coke  and  Littleton, 
Blackstone  and  Mansfield,  as  though  they 
were  the  ones  above  all  others  who  guarded 
the  people's  rights,  and  protected  them  in  the 
enjoyment  thereof.  I  am  glad  he  referred  to 
Lord  Mansfield,  for  there  was,  in  his  time,  a 
a  case  involving  the  liberties  of  man  as  man. 
A  Coke,  a  Littleton,  and  a  Blackstone,  had 
decided  that  a  man  could  be  robbed  of  his 
liberties,  and  that  the  Constitution  of  England 
authorized  it.    All  the  lawyers,  and  all  the 


f« 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Feidat,  Jclt  24. 


judges,  Mansfield  into  the  bargain,  so  decided. 
But  one  common-sense  man  said,  '*  No !  the 
"  Constitution  of  England  sanctions  no  such 
"  thing."  That  man  studied  the  law,  vindi- 
cated his  principles,  fought  it  from  year  to 
year,  imtil  he  compelled  Mansfield  upon  the 
bench  to  reverse  liis  decision,  and  compelled 
Blackstone  to  revise  his  commentaries,  and  to 
declare  to  the  world  that  slaves  cannot 
breathe  in  England. 

I  tell  you  common-sense  people  sometimes 
know  the  law  better  than  judges.  It  was 
said  by  a  wise  and  shrewd  man  that  the  use 
of  language  was  to  enable  us  to  conceal  our 
ideas,  and  many  judges  adnainister  the  law  as 
though  its  object  were  to  defeat  the  ends  of 
justice.  There  are  little  minds  upon  the 
bench  as  well  as  off  it ;  and  many  judges  ad- 
minister the  law  as  though  its  technicalities 
were  more  important  to  be  preserved,  than 
the  rights  of  the  people. 

The  gentleman  asks  what  is  the  use  of  a 
judge  unless  he  can  rule  the  jury  in  regard  to 
the  law.  With  as  much  propriety  he  might 
ask  what  is  the  use  of  witnesses  if  the  jury 
are  to  determine  the  facts.  Why,  the  wit- 
nesses bring  the  facts  before  the  jury  for  their 
consideration,  and  the  counsel  and  the  judge 
bring  the  law  before  them  for  consideration. 
If  there  is  no  possible  use  for  a  judge  unless 
he  can  control  the  jury  on  subjects  of  law,  we 
might  say,  with  equal  propriety,  that  there 
is  no  use  for  witnesses  unless  the  jury  are 
bound  to  believe  every  witness  who  is  sworn. 
The  counsel  will  differ  in  their  interpretation 
of  law,  and  the  judge  makes  his  statement 
before  the  jury  to  guide  their  judgment  to  a 
correct  decision.  But  judges  are  not  infalli- 
ble, as  he  himself  has  showai.  I  do  not  know 
as  the  gentleman,  in  his  encomiums  of  the 
judges  of  England,  meant  to  have  us  believe 
that  the  judges  of  Minnesota  are  as  infallible. 
If  so,  I  beg  leave  to  differ  with  him.  I  doubt 
very  much  whether  some  of  our  recently  ap- 
pointed judges  are  more  infallible  than  some 
of  our  juries. 

Mr.  KING.  I  move  that  the  committee 
rise. 

Mr.  BALCOMBE.  I  hope  the  motion  will 
not  prevail.  In  all  probability  the  Conven- 
tion will  adjourn  to-day,  imtil  Monday,  and 
it  seems  that  we  ought  to  be  willing  to  devote 
•  good  part  of  this  day  to  the  consideration 


of  this  report  in  order  to  bring  our  Conven- 
tion to  a  close  at  the  earliest  possible  day.  If 
individuals  desire  to  go  home  upon  the  boat 
which  leaves  at  twelve  o'clock,  they  can  go, 
and  the  rest  of  us  can  remain  here  and 
work. 

The  motion  was  lost. 

Mr.  BOLLES.  I  hope  the  amendment 
wiU  prevail.  If  I  understand  the  object  of 
this  bill  of  rights,  it  is  to  declare  a  few  funda- 
mental ideas,  which  are  to  be  carried  out  in 
the  body  of  the  Constitution.  I  am  in  favor 
of  sticking  out  the  latter  part  of  this  section, 
for  the  reason  that  we  ought  to  enunciate  but 
simple  principles  in  the  bill  of  rights  and 
nothing  more.  We  have  appointed  commit- 
tees to  carry  out  in  detail  the  programme  laid 
down  in  the  bill  of  rights,  which,  in  my  opin- 
ion, should  be  as  simple  and  concise  as  possi- 
ble. Hence  I  shall  vote  for  this  amendment. 
Unless  we  are  cautious,  we  shall  get  into  deep 
water,  and  shall  anticipate  in  this  bill  of 
rights,  things  which  properly  belong  to  tb© 
reports  of  other  committees.  I  do  claim  that 
the  committee  which  made  this  report,  ex- 
ceeded, not  only  in  this  section,  but  in  various 
other  sections,  their  legitimate  sphere  of 
action.  I  hope  in  such  cases  we  shall  strike 
the  sections  out. 

Mr.  BILLINGS.  I  believe  the  amendment 
to  insert  the  words  "  slander"  and  "  slander- 
ous "  was  adopted.  If  so,  I  shall  now  vote 
against  the  whole  section.  It  seems  to  me 
that  in  a  case  of  libel  the  jury  are  better  qual- 
ified to  judge  of  the  law  than  any  one  else, 
but  I  am  opposed  to  extend  that  power  to  the 
case  of  slander. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  The  amendment  to  which 
the  gentleman  referred  was  adopted  and  now 
forms  a  part  of  the  section.  I  offered  that 
amendment  supposing  that  what  is  technically 
called  slander — that  is  the  spealdng  of  certain- 
words — was  indictable.  Other  gentlemen 
took  a  different  view  of  it.  I  find  by  con- 
sulting what  no  gentleman  will  dispute  to  be 
good  authority,  that  I  was  right.  I  propose 
to  read  a  few  lines  from  Wharton's  Ameri- 
can Criminal  Law,  pages  534,  535,  and  536. 

"An  indictment  will  lie  for  all  words  spoken  of 
another  which  impute  to  him  the  commission  of 
some  crime  punishable  by  law,  such  as  high  trea- 
son, murder,  or  other  felony  (whether  by  statute 
or  at  common  law)  forgery,  perjury,  subomatioo 
of  perjury,  and  other  misdemeanorB." 


MINNESOTA  CONTENTION  DEBATES— Fbiday,  Jcly  24. 


97 


"An  indictment  will  lie  for  all  words  spoken  of 
another  which  will  have  the  eflfect  of  excluding 
him  from  society,  as  for  instance  to  charge  him 
with  having  an  infectious  disease,  such  as  leprosy, 
the  venereal  disease,  the  itch  or  the  like.  But 
charging  him  with  having  had  a  contagious  dis- 
ease is  not  actionable,  for,  as  this  relates  to  time 
past,  it  is  no  reason  why  his  society  should  be 
avoided  at  present." 

"No  indictment  however  will  lie  for  words  not 
reduced  to  writing,  unless  they  be  seditious,  blas- 
phemous, grossly  immoral,  or  uttered  to  the  mag- 
istrate in  the  execution  of  his  office,  or  uttered  as 
a  challenge  to  fight  a  duel,  or  with  an  intention  to 
provoke  the  other  party  to  send  a  challenge," 

Now  if  that  class  of  cases  is  indictable,  it 
seems  to  me  it  is  the  very  class  of  cases,  of  all 
others,  which  should  have  the  benefit  of  the 
provisions  of  this  article. 

Mr.  BALCOMBE,  I  have  a  substitue  to 
offer  to  the  pending  amendment,  which  I 
think  will  obviate  all  this  diflBculty.  It  is  to 
strike  out  all  after  the  word  "  acquitted ''  and 
to  insert  "  and  in  all  indictments  for  Ubel  the 
'•jury  having  received  the  direction  of  the 
'•  court,  shall  have  the  right  to  decide  at 
*' their  discretion,  the  law  and  the  facts." 
This  will  procure  the  direction  of  the  court, 
and  at  the  same  time  leave  the  jury,  at  their 
discretion,  to  decide  the  law  and  the  facts. 
I  think  the  amendment  covers  the  whole 
ground  upon  which  so  much  debate  has  been 
had.  • 

The  substitute  was  adopted. 

Mr.  NORTH.  I  move  to  amend  the  sec- 
tion by  inserting  the  word  "that"  before  the 
word  "right"  where  it  first  occurs. 

The  amendment  was  adopted. 

Sec.  5.  The  right  of  trial  by  jury  shall  remain 
inviolate ;  and  shall  extend  to  all  cases  at  law 
without  regard  to  the  amount  in  controversy  ;  but 
a  jury  trial  may  be  waived  by  the  parties  in  all 
cases  in  the  manner  prescribed  by  law. 

Mr.  MORGAN.  I  move  to  amend  that 
section  by  inserting  the  word  "  civil "  before 
the  word  "  cases  "  where  it  last  appears. 

Mr.  BALCOMBE.  I  approve  of  the  amend- 
ment. In  most  of  the  Constitutions  that 
word  "  civil "  is  used  in  that  connection,  and 
there  is  a  propriety  in  its  use. 

ilr.  COLBURN.  I  hope  the  amendment 
will  not  prevail.  I  can  see  no  objection  to 
allowing  a  party  in  a  criminal  trial  to  waive 
that  right. 

Now  I  am  not  one  of  those  who  deem  it 

13 


my  special  duty  to  follow  what  is  prescribed 
in  some  other  instnmient.  The  gentleman 
fi-om  Winona  [Mr.  Balcombe,']  in  eveay 
instance  in  which  he  has  spoken  in  favor  of 
any  measure,  has  based  his  views  upon  the 
fact  that  some  other  instrument  has  contained 
a  provision  similar  to  the  one  imder  conside- 
ration. While  I  would  pay  due  regard  to  all 
other  Constitutions,  I  am  not  willing  to  bind 
myself  to  foUow  their  example  in  all  respects. 
I  am  not  afraid  of  adopting  some  new  ideas, 
if  they  seem  reasonable  and  proper.  I  be- 
lieve we  may  well  make  some  improve- 
ments. I  do  not  believe  that  hvunan  wisdom 
has  yet  devised  an  instrument  but  what  may 
be  improved.  I  can'  see  no  objection  to 
allowing  any  person  in  all  cases  to  waive  his 
right  of  trial  by  jnry,  if  he  chooses. 

Mr.  MORGAN.  I  thought  my  amendment 
so  obviously  proper  that  tliere  could  be  no 
doubt  about  it.  To  grant  a  criminal  the  ri^t 
to  choose  whether  he  will  be  tried  by  a  jury 
of  his  vicinage,  or  by  some  judge  whom  he 
might  fancy  would  try  his  case  better,  is  a 
thing  which  has  never  yet  been  done  in  this 
country.  I  suppose  that  the  mere  suggestion 
of  the  amendment  would  carry  its  own  pro- 
priety with  it. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  The  gentleman  is  mis- 
taken in  regard  to  the  language  used  in  this 
section.  It  says  trial  may  be  waived  by  the 
parties — ^not  by  one  party,  but  by  hoth  par- 
ties. In  all  cases,  both  civil  and  criminal, 
there  are  two  parties,  and  if  both  choose  to 
waive  trial  by  jury,  they  can  do  so.  It  doeg 
not  lie  in  the  person  of  a  criminal  alone  to 
say  he  will  waivs  such  a  trial.  He  must  have 
the  consent  of  the  prosecuting  attorney. 

Mr.  DAVIS.  In  the  State  of  Ohio  a  crim- 
inal has  the  right  to  choose  between  a  jury 
trial  and  a  trial  by  court  in  all  cases  which 
are  not  penitentiary  offences.  • 

Mr.  PERKINS.  I  think  it  eminently  prop- 
er that  the  amendment  should  prevail.  It  is 
true  that  in  all  cases  there  are  two  parties. 
In  criminal  cases  the  people  are  one  party, 
and  in  all  cases  of  that  kind  I  think  a  jury 
trial  should  be  had.  It  is*  true,  as  has  been 
remarked,  that  a  jury  trial  cannot  be  waived, 
except  by  the  consent  of  both  parties,  but  it 
seems  to  me  improper  to  allow  any  district 
attorney  to  take  the  responsibility  of  waiving 
a  jury  trial. 


9S 


MINNESOTA  CONTENTION  DEBATES— Fkiuay,  Jlly  24, 


It  is  true,  as  the  gentleman,  says,  that  im- 
provements should  be  made  upon  the  Consti- 
tutions Avhich  have  been  made  before.  It  is 
equally  true  that  no  Constitution  was  ever 
framed  wliich  was  in  itself  perfect,  and  not 
susceptible  of  some  improvement ;  and  the 
questions,  in  cases  like  this,  arises,  whether 
this  is  really  an  improvement.  I  do  not  con- 
sider it  as  such.  I  think  it  is  a  departure 
from  the  principles  usually  adopted  in  cases 
of  this  kind. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  It  is  not  necessary  to  go 
to  Ohio,  or  any  other  State  to  find  examples. 
For  the  last  six  years  we  have  been  living 
under  just  such  a  law  as  this  is.  At  the 
present  time  any  criminal  arraigned  before  a 
magistrate — and  there  is  a  very  large  class  of 
offenses  triable  before  that  oflBcer — has  a 
right,  of  his  own  accord,  and  without  consul- 
tation with  the  prosecution,  to  waive  a  trial 
by  jury,  and  to  be  tried  by  the  magistrate 
Our  statute  provides  that  the  magistrate  shall 
demand  of  a  criminal  brought  before  him, 
whether  he  waives  a  trial  by  jury,  and  unless 
he  does  expressly  waive  it,  a  jm-y  is  to  be 
summoned.  If  he  expressly  chooses  to  sub- 
magistrate,  the  government  has  no  control  over 
mit  himself  to  the  trial  and  judgment  of  the 
him.  Although  I  do  not  consider  the  reser- 
vation necessary  in  this  article,  I  would  ob- 
ject to  making  a  distinction  between  civil  and 
criminal  cases.  When  we  say  that  the  rights 
of  trial  by  jury  shall  be  preserved,  we  do  not 
say  necessarily,  or  by  unplication  that  a  trial 
by  jury  shall  not  be  enforced  upon  any  one. 
We  simi^y  say  that  parties  shall  be  entitled 
to  it  as  a  matter  of  right.  I  see  no  reason 
why  a  distinction  should  be  made  between  the 
two  cases.  In  civil  cases  it  is  not  optional 
with  either  party  to  have  the  tiial  by  the 
court,  for  either  party  may  demand  a  trial 
by  a  jury,  l^he  proposition,  as  contained 
in  this  article,  does  not  give  the  criminal  the 
right  to  choose,  but  gives  it  to  both  par- 
ties. 

Mr.  MORGAN,  Ti-ue  that  in  minor  offen- 
ces, triable  before  a  magistrate,  the  accused 
may  waive  a  jury  trial  at  his  option,  and  choose 
to  be  tried  by  the  magistrates.  But  in  the 
higher  grade  of  offenses,  to  be  tried  before 
higher  courts,  to  allow  the  district  attorney 
and  the  courLscl  for  the  offenders,  by  simple 
agreement,  to  compel  the  court  to  try  the 


criminal,  would  be  something  new,  imheard 
of,  and  highly  objectionable. 

The  amendment  was  not  agreed  to. 

Mr.  WATSON.  The  chairman  of  the 
committee  on  the  Preamble  and  Bill  of  Rights 
is  not  present,  and  as  there  seems  to  be  a 
disposition  to  clip  and  criticise  this  report,  I 
move,  in  order  to  give  the  chairman  an  oppor- 
tunity to  be  here,  that  the  committee  rise. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to. 

The  committee  accordingly  rose,  and  the 
President  having  resumed  the  chair,  Mr. 
Stannard  reported  that  the  committee  of  the 
Whole  had  had  under  consideration  the  report 
of  the  committee  on  the  Preamble  and  Bill  of 
Rights  and  had  made  progi-ess  thereon. 

Mr.  NORTH  moved  to  lay  the  report  on 
the  table. 

Mr.  STAN:NARD.  I  rise  to  a  question  of 
order.  I  submit  that  without  a  motion  of 
the  Convention  the  report  goes  among  the 
special  orders  ready  to  be  taken  up  when  we 
go  into  committee  again. 

The  PRESIDENT.  It  is  usual  in  such 
cases,  when  the  committee  hav^  not  com- 
pleted its  labors,  to  ask  leave  to  sit  again. 
When  leave  is  granted,  the  subject  matter  of 
consideration  lies  upon  the  table  as  a  matter 
of  course,  but  when  leave  is  not  granted  the 
report  is  properly  before  the  Convention  for 
its  disposition. 

The  report  was  laid  on  the  table. 

ADJOURNMENT   OVER. 

Mr.  LYLE  moved  that  the  Convention 
adjourn  until  two  o'clock,  p.  m. 

Mr.  NORTH  moved  to  amend  by  making 
it  two  o'clock  on  Monday. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  deem  it  my  duty  to 
vote  against  any  adjournment  over.  A  largo 
portion  of  the  members  of  this  Convention 
live  so  far  from  this  place  that  it  would  be  im- 
possible for  them  to  go  home  and  return  with- 
in the  proposed  time.  If  we  are  to  adjourn 
over,  I  want  it  for  a  sufficient  length  of  time 
tb  allow  me  to  go  home  also,  and  that  will  be 
a  week  to  say  the  least.  But  I  am  opposed 
to  adjourning  over  at  all.  If  gentlemen  must 
go  home,  let  them  go,  but  let  the  rest  go  on 
with  our  business. 

Mr.  PERKINS,  I  am  opposed  to  idling 
my  time  away  for  a  day  or  two  for  the  pur- 
pose of  accommodating  a  few  gentlemen  who 
live  near  by,  and  I  do  not  think  it  is  the  wish 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Fkiday,  July  24. 


93 


of  a  majority  of  the  Convention  to  adjourn. 
I  hope  the  motion  will  not  be  agi'eed  to. 

Mr.  DAVIS.  Gentlemen  have  said  that 
their  business  at  home  was  suflfering.  Mine, 
too,  is  suffering,  and  I  am  in  favor  of  brining, 
this  Convention  to  a  close  as  soon  as  it  can 
be  done  and  done  properly.  I  hope  we  shall 
not  adjourn. 

The  amendment  was  lost. 

The  motion  to  adjourn  was  then  carried, 
and  the  Convention  adjourned  until  two 
o'clock. 

AFTERNOON  SESSION. 
The  Convention  met  at  two  o'clock. 

BEPOET. 

Mr.  SMITH,  from  the  committee  on  Ex- 
emption of  Real  and  Personal  Estate,  and  the 
Rights  of  Married  Women,  made  the  follow- 
ing report,  which  was  read  a  first  and  second 
time,  and  laid  upon  the  table  to  be  printed, 
viz : 

Eepoet  on  Exemptions  of  Real  and  Personal  Es- 
tate, and  the  Rights  of  Married  Women. 
Sec.  1.  The  personal  property  of  every  resi- 
dent of  this  State,  to  consist  of  such  property  as 
shall  be  designated  by  law,  shall  be  exempted  to 
the  amount  of  not  less  than  two  hundred  and  fifty 
(^250)  dollars  from  sale  on  execution  or  other  final 
process  of  any  Court  issued  for  the  collection  of 
any  debt  contracted  after  the  adoption  of  this  Con- 
stitution. 

Sec.  2.  Every  homestead  owned  and  occupied 
by  any  resident  of  this  State,  not  exceeding  in 
value  the  sum  of  one  thousand  ($1000)  dollars, 
shall  be  exempt  from  forced  sale  on  execution,  or 
any  other  final  process  from  a  Court  for  any  debt 
contracted  after  the  adoption  of  this  Constitution  ; 
such  exemption  shall  not  extend  to  any  mortwafe 
thereon  ;  but  such  mortgage  or  alienation  by  the 
owner  thereof,  if  a  married  man,  shall  not  be  valid 
without  the  signature  of  the  wife. 

Sec.  3.  The  homestead  of  a  family  after  the 
death  of  the  owner,  shall  be  exempt  from  the  pay- 
ment of  his  debts  in  all  cases  daring  the  minority 
of  his  children. 

Sec  4.  If  the  owner  of  a  homestead  die,  leav- 
ing a  widow,  but  no  children,  the  same  shall  be 
exempt,  and  the  income  thereof  shall  accrue  to  her 
benefit  during  the  time  of  her  widowhood,  unless 
she  be  the  owner  of  a  homestead  in  her  own 
right. 

Sec.  o.  The  real  and  personal  estate  of  every 
female,  acquired  before  marriage,  and  all  property 
to  which  she  may  afterwards  become  entitled,  by 
gift,  grant,  inheritance  or  devise,  shall  be  and  re- 
main the  estate  and  property  of  such  female,  and 
may  be  devised  or  disposed  of  only  by  the  con- 
currence of  the  husband. 


ADJOrBN'MEXT   OVES. 

Mr.";  SECOMBE.  I  move  that  when  the 
Convention  adjourn  it  adjourns  to  meet  on 
Monday  next  at  ten  o'clock,  a.  a.  It  is  ap- 
parent that  we  have  a  bare  quorum  present, 
and  I  wish  to  know  what  course  the  Conven- 
tion intends  to  take  for  to-morrow,  that  we 
may  make  our  calculations  accordingly. 

Mr.  BILLINGS.  I  shall  oppose  that  mo- 
tion now,  and  always.  Our  labors  have  not 
been  performed,  and  I,  for  one,  shaU  not  con- 
sent to  any  adjournment  beyond  what  is 
usual,  until  they  are  finished.  Nor  do  I  wish 
to  remain  here  on  expense,  to  let  others,  whose 
convenience  it  may  suit,  return  home.  Gen- 
tlemen say  that  business  requires  them  to  go 
home.  That  is  the  case  with  all  of  us.  If 
our  business  at  home  is  more  important  than 
our  business  here,  let  us  go  home  and  stay 
there.  Dutj'  called  me  here,  and  duty  will 
keep  me  here  until  our  .^work  is  done.  If  ne- 
cessity were  a'controling  argument  I  should 
be  on  my  homeward  journey  too.  But  my 
private  interests  suffer  and  must  suffer  if  the 
public  good  requires  my  presence  here.  If 
some  members  leave  there  will  be  less  speeches 
made,  and  we  shall  get  on  the  faster. 

Mr.  PERKINS.  I  am  opposed  to  adjourn- 
ing over.  If  some  members  see  fit  to  go  home, 
let  us  who  remain,  continue  to  do  our  business. 
So  far  as  the  plea  of  necessity  is  concerned  I 
might  as  well  urge  it  as  any  others,  but  I  am 
willing  to  devote  as  much  time  as  is  neces- 
sary to  form  a  constitution,  and  I  do  not  wish 
to  waste  any  time  here,  to  allow  others  to 
enjoy  a  trip  home. 

The  motion  to  adjourn  over  was  lost. 

COMMITTEE    OX    LEAAT;    OF    ABSENCE. 

Mr.  COLBURN  offered  the  following  reso- 
lution, which  was  read,  considered  and  agreed 
to: 

"  WnEBEAS,  It  is  desirable  that  the  Convention 
complete  the  business  for  which  it  was  assembled 
at  as  early  a  day  as  possible,  and  whereas  it  is  de- 
sirable that  as  many  members  as  possible  shall  be 
present  to  participate  in  the  transaction  of  such 
business,  therefore, 

Besolved,  That  there  be  a  select  committee  of 
three  appointed  upon  "Leave  of  Absence." 

PREAMBLE   AXD   BILL   OF   BIGHTS. 

On  motion  of  Mr.  HARDD^G,  the  Con- 
vention resolved  itself  into  committee  of  the 
Whole  on  the  report  of  the  committee  upon 


100 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Feidat,  July  24. 


the  Preamble  and  Bill  of  Eights.  (Mr.  Col- 
burn  in  the  Chair. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  I  rise  to  a  point  of 
order.  The  report  of  the  committee  was  this 
morning,  by  special  action  of  the  Convention, 
laid  upon  the  table ;  therefore  it  was  not  in 
the  general  orders,  and  cannot  come  before 
the  committee  of  the  Whole  for  consideration. 
I  move  that  the  committee  rise  for  the  pur- 
pose of  taking  that  report  from  the  table.  I 
do  not  make  the  motion  for  purposes  of  delay, 
but  that  we  may  appear  right  upon  the 
record. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to. 

The  committee  accordingly  rose,  and  the 
President  resumed  the  Chair  of  the  Conven- 
tion. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  I  now  move  that  the 
report  of  the  committee  upon  the  Preamble 
and  Bill  of  Rights  be  taken  from  the  table  and 
refered  to  the  committee  of  the  Whole. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to. 

On  motion  of  Mr.  SECOMBE  the  Conven- 
tion then  resolved  itself  into  a  committee  of 
the  Whole  (Mr.  Colbcrn  in  the  Chair)  and  re- 
sumed the  consideration  of  the  report  on  the 
Preamble  and  Bill  of  Rights,  commencing 
with  section  six,  where  the  committee  left  off 
in  the  morning. 

The  section  was  read  as  follows  : 

Sec.  6.  Excessive  bail  shall  not  be  required ; 
nor  shall  excessive  fines  be  imposed ;  nor  shall 
cruel  and  unusual  punishments  be  inflicted. 

Mr.  DULEY.  I  move  to  strike  out  that 
section.  There  is  a  special  committee  ap- 
pointed to  take  into  consideration  the  subject 
matter  of  this  section,  and  it  seems  necessary, 
in  order  that  we  may  have  a  report  from  the 
committee  on  Punishment  of  Crimes,  that 
this  section  should  be  stricken  out.  It  would 
seem  as  though  the  committee  on  Bill  of 
Rights  liad  reported  almost  every  subject  that 
could  possibly  come  before  the  committee  on 
Punishment  of  Crimes.  If  they  may  legnti- 
mately  do  so,  why  should  the  other  committee 
be  appointed?  I  am  opposed  to  one  com- 
mittee encroaching  upon  the  jurisdiction  of 
another.  It  hope  we  will  strike  out  this  sec- 
tion and  leave  the  matter  to  como  up  upon  the 
report  of  some  other  committee, 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  am  well  aware  that 
there  is  some  clasliing  of  the  reports  of  the 
committees,  but  it  will  be  the  province  of  this 


committee  of  the  Whole  to  strike  out  from 
one  or  the  other,  according  to  their  judgment, 
so  that' there  wiU  finally  be  no  clashing  in  the 
Constitution.  The  question  with  us  should 
be,  which  is  the  proper  place  for  each  subject 
matter.  This  sixth  section  is  purely  a  decla- 
ration of  rights,  and  it  seems  peculiarly'  ap- 
propriate that  it  should  be  retained  where  it 
is.  If  it  should  be  admitted  here,  and  in  our 
judgment  the  only  proper  place  for  it,  then 
if  it  should  come  up  again  in  the  report  of 
the  committee  on  Punishment  of  Crimes, 
there  would  be  the  proper  place  to  strike  it 
out.  On  the  other  hand  if  this  is  not  the 
proper  place  for  it,  we  should  strike  it  out 
here,  and  retain  it  in  another  place. 

Mr.  MESSER.  The  Chairman  of  the  com- 
mittee who  made  this  report  is  absent,  and  I 
hope  it  will  not  be  further  considered  until  he 
can  be  present.  Some  imputations  have  been 
cast  upon  that  committee  for  apparently  in- 
truding upon  the  jurisdiction  of  other  com- 
mittees, but  I  can  assure  gentlemen  that  the 
committee  had  no  intention  of  interfering  in 
the  least. 

Mr.  BALCOMBE.  This  section  properly 
belongs  under  the  head  of  Bill  of  Rights  if 
we  adopt  such  a  clause  at  all. 

In  those  Constitutions  which  do  not  con- 
tain a  Bill  of  Rights,  this'^clause  comes  under 
the  jurisdiction  of  the  Judiciary  committee, 
and  would  be  more  apt  to  be  put  into  the  re- 
port of  that  committee  than  in  any  other. 
Wherever  there  is  a  Bill  of  Rights  this  section 
is  contained  in  it,  and  properly  comes  under 
that  head.  As  to  the  clashmg  of  reports,  it 
is  a  matter  of  minor  consequence.  Our  ob- 
ject is  to  frame  a  constitution,  and  if  various 
committees  report  various  clauses  which  may 
perhaps  more  properly  belong  to  some  other 
committee,  we  will,  as  we  take  up  those  re- 
ports, adopt  what  we  think  ought  to  be  adop- 
ted, and  wliich  we  tliink  to  be  in  an  appro- 
priate place,  without  reference  to  the  fact  that 
they  did  or  did  not  come  from  the  most  appro- 
priate committee. 

Mr.  DAVIS.  I  do  not  wish  to  stick  for 
-.small  points,  but  it  does  appear  that  this  sub- 
ject in  the  sixth  section  belongs  exclusively  to 
the  report  of  the  committee  on-  the  Punish- 
ment of  Crimes.  That  committee  was  ap- 
pointtd  for  something  or  it  was  appointed  for 
nothing.    If  it  was  appointed  for  something. 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— FKiirAf,  Jc&y  M*^ 


401. 


what  was  it  ?  Was  it  for  the  purpose  of  get-  [ 
ting  certain  members  appointed  upon  unim- 
portant committees,  in  order  that  others  might 
get  all  the  important  portions  upon  other 
committees  ?  I  do  not  say  but  that  this  sec- 
tion comes  in  appropriately  here.  But  that  is 
a  matter  of  after  consideration  with  the  com- 
mittee on  Arrangement  and  Phraseology. .  If 
they  should  see  fit  to  put  it  under  this  head 
finally,  I  have  no  objection,  but  I  do  contend 
that  for  the  present,  it  belongs  to  the  province 
of  the  committee  on  the  Punishment  of  Crimes, 
and  therefore  I  hope  it  will  be  stricken  out 
here,  and  retained  in  the  report  of  that  com- 
mittee. 

Mr.  PERKINS.  There  seems  to  be  a  jeal- 
ousy between  the  different  committees  here, 
and  an  apprehension  that  they  have  been 
trespassed  upon  by  the  report  of  the  commit- 
tee on  the  Preamble  and  Bill  of  Rights,  and 
some  hard  feehng  seems  to  have  been  engen- 
dered against  that  committee  for  their  pre- 
sumption in  thus  encroaching.  I  do  not 
beUeve  there  was  any  malicious  intention  upon 
the  part  of  anj-  one  of  thai;  committee,  nor  do 
I  believe  that  they  intended  to  deprive  any 
one  of  the  honor  or  glory  of  making  reports 
upon  the  different  subjects  committed  to 
them.  It  seems  to  me  the  feeUng  results 
from  a  misapprehengion  of  the  purport  of  the 
BUI  of  Rights.  Its  object,  as  I  understand 
it,  is  to  set  forth  to  the  world  those  fundamen- 
tal ideas  and  principles  which  underlie  our 
Constitution,  xind  it  seems  to  me  that  there 
would  be  no  impropriety  even  should  the 
Constitution  go  on  and  re-affirm  those  great 
principles  a  second  time,  even  in  the  identical 
language  of  the  Bill  of  Rights.  I  see  no 
objection  to  such  a  course.  It  seems  to  me 
that  this  jealousy  is  entirely  wrong,  and  that 
in  fact  there  has  been  no  trespass  upon  the 
rights  of  any  committee. 

Mr.  BOLLES.  I  think  the  committee,  in 
giving  us  this  report,  have  gone  into  details 
more  than  was  necessary,  and  more  than  is 
usual  for  committees  on  the  Preamble  and 
Bill  of  Rights  to  do.  But  I  should  regret 
exceedingly  to  believe  that  tliey  designed  to* 
exceed  their  powers.  The  section  under  con- 
sideration I  would  regard  as  eminently  proper 
to  be  incorporated  in  the  Bill  of  Rights, 
whether  coming  legitimately  from  that  com- 
mittee or  not.     It  is  simple,  precise,   and 


expressed  in  just  the  language  I  like.  It  is 
the  ground  work  wliich  vmderlies  and  sus- 
tains a  lai^  amoimt  of  legislation,  and  if  we 
were  to  exclude  any  section  upon  this  page 
of  the  report,  it  should  not  be  that  one.  If 
any  are  to  be  stricken  out,  I  would  prefer  to 
strike  out  the  two  following  ones,  which  are 
but  details  of  the  same  idea. 

Mr.  D4VIS.  I  wish  it  distinctly  under- 
stood that  I  mean  to  impute  no  wrong  inten- 
tion to  the  committee  which  made  this  report.' 
I  merely  wished  to  say,  that,  in  my  opinion, 
they  did  report  what  should  properly  come 
from  the  committee  on  Punishment  of  Crimes. 
Mr.  BUTLER.  I  think  that  committee 
have  done  no  more  than  any  member  of 
this  Convention  would  have  done,  had  they 
been  members  of  that  committee.  They 
have  only  followed  out  precedents  which  have 
been  set  in  the  formation  of  other  State  Con- 
stitutions. I  think  they  have  done  their  duty 
and  nothing  more.  Ever  since  the  appoint- 
ment of  the  committee  on  Punishment  of 
Crimes,  I  have  been  of  the  opinion  that  they 
had  nothing  to  do,  and  I  felt  thankful  for 
being  placed  upon  a  committee  whose  duties 
were  so  light.  I  had  myself  no  idea  of 
reporting  any  thing  from  that  committee,  from 
the  fact  that  I  was  aware  that  the  whole 
ground  would  be  covered  by  other  commit- 
tees. I  was  of  opinion  that  the  committee 
was  formed  for  the  express  purpose  of  giving 
places  to  some  members  upon  it. 

The  question  was  taken  on  the  amendment, 
and  it  was  lost. 

Sec.  7.  In  all  criminal  prosecutions  the  accused 
shall  enjoy  the  right  to  be  heard  by  himself  and 
counsel ;  to  demand  the  nature  and  cause  of  the 
accusation  against  him ;  to  meet  the  witness  face 
to  face ;  to  have  compulsory  process  to  compel  the 
attendance  of  witnesses  in  his  behalf  and  in  prose- 
cutions by  indictment  or  information,  to  a  speedy 
public  trial  by  an  impartial  jurj*  of  the  county  or 
district  wherein  the  offence  shall  have  been  com- 
mitted, which  county  or  district  shall  have  been 
previously  ascertained  by  law. 

Mr.  DAVIS.  I  move  that  that  entire  sec- 
tion be  stricken  out,  and  for  the  same  reasons 
I  gave  in  fiivor  of  striking  out  section  six. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  There  has  been  -some 
talk  about  following  precedents,  and  about 
there  being  men  who  can  see  nothing  good 
in  what  is  old,  and  no  good  but  in  that  which 
is  new.  I  do  not  belong  to  cither  of  those 
classes.     I  do  not  believe  any  thing  is  good 


102,. 


'^JNlfEgOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Fiuday,  Jily  2-i. 


because  it  is  old,  nor  bad  because  it  is  new. 
I  am  in  favor  of  adopting  in  this  Convention, 
so  far  as  we  can  do  so,  the  precedents  set  us 
in  the  formation  of  the  Constitution  of  the 
United  States,  and  which  have  been  followed 
down  to  the  present  day  in  the  formation  of 
the  State  Constitutions.  There  are  certain 
principles  which  have  never  been  declared  in 
any  better  form,  and  never  can  be.  Where 
such  is  Ihe  case,  I  am  in  favor  of  following 
such  precedents.  The  Constitution  of  the 
United  States  has  a  clause  equivalent  to  this, 
declaring  the  rights  therein  contained  to  be 
inherent  rights  in  the  people,  and  I  hope  to 
see  it  incorporated  into  our  Gbnstitution. 

The  question  was  taken  on  the  motion  to 
strike  out,  and  it  was  lost: 

Mr.  STANNARD.  I  move  to  amend  the 
section  by  striking  out  " and"  where  it  first 
occurs  and  inserting  "or." 

The  amendment  was  adopted. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  I  now  move  to  strike 
out  the  word  "meet"  and  to  insert  in  lieu 
thereof  the  word  "  confront." 

Mr.  PERKINS.  I  move  to  amend  the 
amendment,  so  as  to  make  that  particular 
clause  read  "  and  to  be  confronted  with  the 
"witnesses  against  him." 

Mr.  STANNARD.  That  would  give  the 
accused  the  right  to  be  confronted,  but  not  to 
confront. 

Mr.  BILLINGS.  I  doubt  whether  that 
amendment  conveys  the  meaning  intended  by 
the  committee  which  reported  this  bUl,  or 
which  we  wish  to  conve}^,  for  this  clause  is  in 
favor  of  the  accused,  and  of  his  liberty  to 
meet  and  confront,  and  hot  for  giving  the  State 
the  liberty  to  confront  him.  It  is  his  right  to 
show  by  counter  evidence  that  the  things 
alleged  against  him  are  not  true,  and  that  is 
the  right  we  intend  to  secure  to  him.  But  a 
provision  "to  be  confronted"  is  for  the  ben- 
efit of  the  accuser  and  not  for  the  accused. 
The  State  always  has  that  right.  We  do  not 
want  to  enlarge  the  powers  of  the  govern- 
ment, but  we  are  legislating  for  the  largest 
liberty  of  the  party  accused. 

Nott'  I  doubt  whether  we,  as  a  body,  can 
improve  any  one  of  those  clauses  reported  by 
the  committee,  and  unless  error  is  clearly 
apparent  upon  the  first  flush,  we  had  better 
not  meddle  with  them.  First  impressions  are 
generally  the  best.     I  consider  this  Bill  of 


Rights  something  like  the  bills  of  fare  laid 
upon  our  dinner  tables — not  the  dinner  itself, 
but  only  as  foreshadowing  what  it  may  be. 
It  may  cover  all  or  more.     Now  is  there  a 
gentleman  in  this  Convention,  who  docs  not 
believe  just  what  this  sixth  section  contains 
as  it  stands?     Is  there  a  gentleman  who  be- 
lieves that  excessive  bail  should  be  required ; 
excessive  fines  imposed ;  or  unusual  punish- 
ments inflicted?     Is  there  a  man  who  believes 
;  that  the  accused  should  not  be  heard  by  him- 
;  self  or  counsel ;  that  he  should  not  have  the 
nature  of  the  accusation  made  known  to  him  ; 
I  that  he  should  not  have  the  privilege  of  meet- 
j  ing  the  witnesses  face  to  face ;  and  that  he 
;  should  not  have  compulsory  process  to  com- 
I  pel  the  attendance  of  witnesses?    There  is 
I  nothing  that  we  can  do,  but  what  other  per- 
sons may    and   mil  find  fault  with.     Our 
labors  may  be,  and  will  be  imperfect,  after 
we  expend  all  our  wisdom  upon  them,  but 
because  a  thing  is  imperfect,  it  is  no  reason 
why  it  should  be  stricken  out  entirely.     I 
believe  the  meaning  is   conveyed  more  per- 
fectly by  the  word  "confront"  than  by  the 
words  "  to  be  confronted,"   and  I  shall  vote 
accordingly. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  believe  the  gentleman 
from  Fillmore  county  [Mr.  Billings]  miscon- 
ceives the  meaning  of  Ae  words  used.  I 
refer  here  again  to  the  Constitution  of  the 
United  States,  framed  by  wiser  heads  than 
ours,  and  I  find  the  language  there  used  the 
same  as  that  proposed  by  the  gentleman  from 
Rice  county  [Mr.  Perkins] — "to  be  confronted 
with  the  witnesses  against  him."  What  does 
that  mean  ?  It  means  that  when  a  charge  is 
made  against  any  person,  he  may  demand 
that  the  government  shall  bring  the  witnesses 
before  his  face,  and  that  they  shall  there,  in 
his  presence  and  under  his  eye,  make  the 
charge  against  him — not  that  he  shall  have 
permission  to  go  off  somewhere  to  meet  them, 
but  that  the  government  shall  bring  those  wit- 
nesses into  his  presence. 

What  is  the  idea  conveyed  by  the  sentence 
as  it  stands — "  to  meet  the  witness  face  to 
Xace  ?  "  What  witnesses  ?  For  or  against 
him? 

Suppose  the  word  "confront"  is  used, 
what  is  the  meaning  then  ?  Of  itself  it  means 
face  to  face,  and  you  have  a  repetition  of  the 
same  thing  in  the  same  sentence. 


MINNESOTA  COXVENTIOX  DEBATES— Fkidat,  Jlly  24. 


108 


The  provision  proposed,  cuts  off  the  right 
of  introducing  depositions  upon  criminal  tri- 
als. In  civil  cases  it  is  well  known,  that  if 
the  attendance  of  witnesses  is  inconvenient, 
their  depositions  can  be  taken,  imder  certain 
restrictions  of  law.  But  the  provision  that 
he  shall  be  confronted  with  the  witnesses 
against  him,  compels  the  government  to  bring 
the  witnesses  bodily  into  the  presence  of  the 
accused.  I  believe  that  no  language  can  be 
used  which  more  clearly  expresses  the  idea, 
than  the  language  proposed  by  the  gentle- 
man from  Rice  county. 

I  do  not  wish  to  pick  flaws  in  the  report, 
but  the  object  of  the  Convention,  sitting  in 
committee  of  the  Whole,  is  to  perfect  the 
matters  which  the  committees  report,  accord- 
ing to  the  best  of  their  present  knowledge 
and  ability. 

Mr.  LYLE.  I  do  not  see  any  particular 
necessity  of  altering  the  language  of  this 
section.  It  says  "  to  meet  the  witnesses  face 
to  face."  Now  those  are  the  witnesses 
against  him,  of  course.  Then  it  goes  on  to 
state  that  he  shall  have  compulsory  process 
to  compel  the  attendance  of  witnesses  in  liis 
behalf.  It  seems  very  plain  to  me,  and  I  do 
not  think  it  necessary  to  discuss  such  small 
matters.  I  hope  we  shall  proceed  at  once 
and  dispose  of  the  subject. 

Mr.  BALCOMBE.  I  rise  to  express  my 
opinion  in  favor  of  the  substitute  offered  by 
the  gentleman  from  Rice  county.  It  is  in 
the  exact  language  of  a  clause  in  the  Consti- 
tution of  the  United  States.  I  have  a  par- 
ticular regard  for  that  instrument  and  for  its 
language;  and  I  believe  that  nearly  every 
Convention  which  has  heretofore  formed  a 
State  Constitution,  has  adopted  that  language. 
I  hope  the  substitute  will  be  adopted. 

Mr.  PERKINS.  It  seems  to  me  that 
gentlemen  upon  the  other  side  of  the  House 
have  misinterpreted  the  language  I  propose 
ta  employ.  One  gentleman  says  it  is  a  very 
different  thing  to  "  confront"  or  "  to  be  con- 
fronted by."  But  the  language  I  propose  to 
use  is  "  to  be  confronted  with  the  witnesses 
against  him."  The  words  "  to  meet  the  wit- 
nesses face  to  fiice"  are  meaningless  in  my 
opinion,  and  would  lead  to  difSculties  in  their 
practical  application.  The  language,  taken 
from  the  Constitution  of  the  United  States 
expresses  just  the  idea  gentiemen  desire.     It 


'  is  as  significant  as  any  language  that  can  pos- 
sibly be  employed,  and  is  beyond  quibble  as 
to  its  meaning. 

The  question  was  taken  on  Mr.  Peekixs' 
substitute,  and  it  was  adopted. 

Mr.  PECKHAM.  I  move  that  the  com- 
mittee rise  report  progress  and  ask  leave  to 
sit  again. 

The  motion  was  lost. 

Mr.  SEC0:MBE.  I  move  to  amend  in  the 
seventh  line,  by  inserting  after  the  word 
"  behalf,"  the  words,  "  to  have  the  assistance 
of  counsel  for  his  defense." 

Mr.  BALCOMBE.  I  really  cannot  see 
the  necessity  of  such  an  amendment.  In  the 
first  two  lines,  the  accused  is  guaranteed  the 
assistance  of  counsel.  The  language  is — "  in 
"  all  criminal  prosecutions  the  accused  shall 
"  enjoy  the  right  to  be  heard  by  himself  or 
"  counsel."  Now  why  renew  the  guarantee  in 
the  same  section? 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  The  first  provision,  it 
seems  to  me,  is  simply  a  provision  that  in  all 
criminal  prosecutions,  the  accused  shall  be 
notified,  and  have  the  privilege  of  making  a 
defence ;  but  the  provision  I  propose  to  insert 
is  of  a  different  nature  entirely.  The  first 
provision  leaves  it  optional  with  him  whether 
he  wiU  be  heard  personally  or  by  counsel. 
I  propose  to  insert  a  provision  to  the  effect 
that  he  shall  have  the  assistance  of  coimsel. 
For  instance,  a  prisoner  appears  before  the 
bar  without  comisel ;  the  court  demands  of 
him  if  he  has  counsel  for  his  defence ;  he  has 
none  ;  it  then  becomes  the  duty  of  the  gov- 
ernment to  furnish  him  with  counsel,  and  not 
take  advantage  of  his  poverty  or  inability  to 
procure  counsel.  The  government  not  only 
pays  the  district  attorney  for  prosecuting  him, 
but  it  binds  the  government  to  furnish  counsel 
for  the  defence. 

And  here  again  we  have  the  sanction,  and 
not  only  the  sanction,  but  the  binding  force 
of  the  Constitution  of  the  United  States,  for 
we  have  to  frame  a  Constitution  which  does 
not  conflict  with  the  Constitution  of  the  United 
States;  and  one  of  the  provisions  of  that 
Constitution  is  that  every  individual  under  the 
government  of  the  United  States  shall  have 
the  assistance  of  coimsel  for  his  defence.  We 
are  bound  to  protect  citizens  in  the  rights 
which  are  given  to  them  by  the  Federal 
Constitution. 


104 


MIXNESOTxV  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Friday,  July  24. 


Mr.  BILLINGS.  I  move  to  amend  the 
amendment  last  offered,  by  stiiking  it  out 
and  inserting  in  the  place  of  it  a  comma  after 
the  word  "  behalf."  That  may  seem  trivial 
but  it  is  not.  If  I  understan  i  the  gentle- 
man's argument,  it  is  based  upon  mercy  to  the 
accused,  and  he  conceives,  in  his  generosity, 
that  the  government  should  furnish  every 
criminal  veith  an  attorney.  Oases  of  assault 
and  battery,  and  other  trivial  offences  before 
a  justice  of  the  peace,  are  criminal  proceed- 
ings, but  who  before  ever  conceived  it  the 
duty  of  the  government  to  furnish  coimsel  to 
defend  in  such  cases  ?  Now  it  occurrs  to  me 
that  if  you  insert  a  comma  where  I  have  pro- 
posed, and  let  each  part  of  the  sentence  re- 
fer to  its  own  subject,  that  will  be  sufficient 
for  all  purposes.  We  ought  not  to  bind  the 
incoming  State,  in  all  future  time,  to  keep  in 
each  county  or  each  district,  imder  the  juris- 
diction of  a  justice  of  the  peace,  an  officer 
whose  business  it  shall  be  to  attend  to  the  de- 
fence of  all  matters  of  a  criminal  nature. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  If  I  had  not  a  material 
object  in  view,  I  would  accept  the  gentleman's 
amendment.  But  the  poor,  unfortunate 
criminal  would  very  unwillingly  accept,  in 
place  of  the  defence  which  I  propose  he  shall 
have,  the  comma  proposed  by  the  g-entleman. 
Mr.  BILLINGS.  Will  the  gentlemen  give 
me  the  difference  in  most  cases  between  an 
attorney  and  a  comma?  The  one  is  fre- 
quently only  a  longer  pause  than  the  other. 
(Laughter.) 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  The  gentleman  from 
Fillmore,  [Mr.  Billings]  is  an  attorney  him- 
self, I  believe,  and  perhaps  he  has  only  been 
giving  a  righteous  judgment,  and  I  find  no 
fault  with  it.  (Laughter.)  I  know  what  the 
Constitution  of  the  United  States  says,  and 
it  is,  that  in  all  criminal  prosecutions  the 
accused  shall  have  the  assistance  of  counsel 
for  his  defence,  and  I  propose  that  the  Consti- 
tution of  this  State  shall  adopt  the  same 
language ;  and  if  in  the  Constitution  of  the 
United  States  it  means  that  criminals  shall 
have  that  defence  in  justice's  courts,  then  it 
will  mean  the  same  in  our  Constitution. 

Mr.  BALCOMBE.  I  wiU  ask  the  gentle- 
man from  St.  Anthony  to  withdraw  his 
amendment  and  permit  me  to  offer  a  sub- 
stitute for  the  whole  section  in  the  words  of 
the  Constitution. 


Mr.  SECOMBE.     I  will  do  so. 

Mr.  BALCOMBE.  Then  I  ofier  the  follow- 
ing substitute  for  the  whole  section : 

"  In  all  criminal  prosecutions  the  accused  shall 
enjoy  the  right  to  a  speedy  and  public  trial  by  an 
impartial  jury  of  the  county  or  district  wherein  the 
crime  shall  have  been  committed,  which  county 
or  district  shall  have  been  previously  ascertained 
by  law,  and  to  be  informed  of  the  nature  and  cause 
of  the  accusation^  to  be  confronted  with  the  wit- 
nesses against  him ;  to  have  compulsorj'  process 
for  obtaining  witnesses  in  his  behalf,  and  to  have 
the  assistance  of  counsel  for  his  defence." 

I  know  of  no  better  language  than  that  of 
the  Constitution  of  the  United  States,  in  which 
to  express  the  idea  we  wish  to  convey. 

Ml-.  BILLINGS.  I  now  offer  a  substitute 
for  the  substitute.  Strike  out  all  after  the 
word,  "criminal"  and  insert  the  following: 

"  Cases  involving  the  life,  limb  or  liberty  of  an 
individual,  the  accused  shall  have  the  right  to  a 
speedy  and  public  trial  by  an  impartial  jury ;  to  be 
informed  of  the  accusations  against  him  ;  to  have 
a  copy  of  the  same  when  demanded ;  to  meet  the 
witnesses  face  to  face ;  to  have  compulsory  process 
to  compel  the  attendance  of  witnesses  in  his  be- 
half :  Provided,  that  nothing  in  this  article  shall  be 
so  construed  as  tu  afi'ect  requisitions  from  Gover- 
nors of  other  States  upon  the  Governor  of  this 
State  for  the  rendition  of  fugitive  criminals  to  the 
Courts  having  proper  jurisdiction  in  those  States 
in  which  such  criminals  are  charged  with  having 
committed  crimes." 

The  substitute  for  the  substitute  was  re- 
jected. 

The  substitute  was  then  adopted. 

Mr.  BALCOMBE.  I  now  move  that  the 
committee  rise,  report  progress  and  ask  leave 
to  sit  again. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  We  have  agreed  to  sit 
here  and  work.  What  hinders  our  sitting 
here  an  hour  longer  ?  

The  motion  was  not  agreed  to. 

Sec.  8.  No  person  shall  be  held  to  answer  for  a 
criminal  offence  unless  on  the  presentment  or  in- 
dictment of  a  grand  jury,  except  in  cases  of  im- 
peachment, or  in  cases  cognizable  by  justices  of 
the  peace,  or  arising  in  the  army  or  navy,  or  in 
the  militia  when  in  actual  service  in  time  of  war 
or  public  danger,  and  no  person  for  the  same  of- 
fence shall  be  puttwicein  jeopardy  of  punishment, 
nor  shall  be  compelled  in  any  criminal  clise  to  be  a 
wiin  ss  against  himself.  All  persons  shall,  before 
conviction,  bo  bailable  by  sufficient  sureties,  except 
for  capital  ofllences  when  the  proof  is  evident  or 
the  presumption  great ;  and  the  privilege  of  the 
writ  of  habeas  corpus  shall  not  be  suspended,  un- 
less when  in  case  of  rebellioa  or  invasion  the 
public  safety  may  require. 


MINNESOTA  CONTENTION  DEBATES— Fbiday,  Jcly  24. 


105 


Mr.  STAN'NARD.  The  word  "punish- 
ment" in  that  section  does  not  conform  to 
the  Constitution  of  the  United  States,  and  I 
therefore  move  to  strike  it  out. 

The  amendment  was  not  agreed  to. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.      I  move  to  amend  by  \ 
inserting  after  the  word  "himself"  the  words :  ; 

"  Nor  be  deprived  of  life,  liberty  or  property, 
without  due  process  of  law." 

The  amendment  was  adopted. 

Sbc.  9.  Every  person  is  entitled  to  a  certain 
remedy  in  the  laws  for  all  injuries  or  wrongs  which 
he  may  receive  in  his  person,  property  or  charac- 
ter ;  he  ought  to  obtain  justice  freely,  and  without 
being  obliged  to  purchase  it;  completely  and 
without  denial,  promptly  and  without  delay,  con- 
formably to  the  laws. 

Mr.  LYLE.  I  move  as  a  substitute  for 
that  section  the  following : 

"  Every  person  shall  be  entitled  to  a  remedy  for 
all  injuries  and  wrongs  which  he  may  receive  in  his 
person,  property,  or  character,  without  delay  con- 
formably to  law."  , 

The  substitute  was  not  agreed  to. 

Mr.  BOLLES.  I  move  to  amend  by  strik- 
ing out  all  the  section  after  the  word  "  charac- 
ter." The  latter  part  seems  to  be  a  repetition 
of  the  idea  of  the  former  part. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  It  seems  to  me  that  the 
whole  section  is  unnecessary .  We  have  already 
declared  that  men  have  certain  inherent  rights, 
among  which  are  life,  liberty  and  the  pursuit 
of  happiness ;  and  to  secure  those  rights  gov- 
ernments are  instituted  among  men,  deriving ' 
their  just  powers  from  the  consent  of  the 
governed.  If  these  are  inherent  rights  and 
governments  are  instituted  to  secure  them, 
does  it  not  follow  as  a  natural  presiunption 
that  persons  are  entitled  to  a  remedy  if  de- 
prived of  those  rights  ? 

The  amendment  was  not  agreed  to. 

Mr.  ALDRICH.  I  move  to  strike  out  the 
words  "  being  obliged  to"  and  the  word  "  it," 
so  that  it  shall  read  "  he  ought  to  obtain  jus- 
"  tice  freely  and  without  purchase,  completely 
"  and  without  denial"  &c. 

The  amendment  was  adopted. 

Sec.  10.  Treason  against  the  State  shall  consist 
only  in  levying  war  against  the  same  or  in  adhering 
to  its  enemies,  giving  them  aid  and  comfort.  No 
person  shall  be  convicted  of  treason  unless  on  the 
testimony  of  two  witnesses  to  the  same  overt  act, 
or  on  confession  in  open  court. 

Mr.  PERKINS.    I  think  that  section  should 
remain  as  it  is.     For  one,  I  am  in  fiivor  of 
14 


having  treason  defined  as  it  is  in  this  section, 
and  so  I  think  every  man  in  this  Convention 
will,  when  he  remembers  that  charges  of  trea- 
son are  made  against  us,  and  we  are  liable  to 
swing  for  it.  (Laughter.)  I  think  treason 
should  only  consist  in  levying  war  against  the 
State,  and  in  adhering  to  the  enemy  and  giv- 
ing them  comfort.  I  think  we  have  not  ad- 
hered to  the  enemy,  but  have  separated  from 
them,  nor  have  we  given  them  much  comfort. 
(Laughter.) 

The  amendments  were  proposed  and  the 
section  was  passed  over. 

Sec.  11.  The  right  of  the  people  to  be  secure 
in  their  persons,  houses,  papers  and  effects,  against 
unreasonable  searches  and  seizures  shall  not  be 
violated,  and  no  warrant  shall  issue  but  upon  pro- 
bable cause  supported  by  oath  or  affirmation,  and 
particularly  describing  the  place  to  be  searched, 
and  the  person  or  things  to  be  seized. 

Mr.  ALDRICH.  I  move  to  amend  by  in- 
serting after  the  word  "  but,"  the  words  "  on 
"  complaint  in  writing." 

Mr.  PERKINS.  The  language  used  in  this 
section  is  the  same  that  is  employed  in  the 
Constitution  of  the  United  States,  and  it 
seems  to  me  to  be  suflBcient,  The  Legisla- 
ture can  carry  out  the  provision  in  detail. 

Mr.  BILLINGS.  I  am  opposed  to  the 
amendment  from  the  fact  that  there  are  cer- 
tain circumstances  in  which  seiztu-es  of  persons 
should  be  made  without  the  delay  which 
would  be  necessary  to  put  the  facts,  warrant- 
ing the  seizure,  in  writing.  Justices  of  the 
Peace  and  Constables  are  by  law  now  au- 
thorized instanti  to  suppress  riots,  and  disperse 
persons  engaged  in  any  unlawful  act.  That 
provision  should  not  be  interfered  with. 

The  amendment  was  not  agreed  to. 

Mr.  BOBBINS.  I  move  to  strike  out  the 
words  "searches  and  seizures"  and  insert 
"  search  or  seizure." 

The  amendment  was  not  agreed  to. 

Mr.  BOBBINS.  I  move  that  the  commit- 
tee rise,  report  progress  and  ask  leave  to  sit 
again. 

The  motion  was  lost 

Sec.  13.  No  private  property  shall  be  taken  for 
public  use  without  just  compensation  therefor. 

Mr.  DULEY.  I  move  to  strike  out  all 
after  the  word  "  no"  and  insert  the  following : 

"  Man's  particular  services  shall  be  demanded 
without  just  compensation.  No  man's  property 
shall  be  taken  by  law  without  jnst  compensation ; 


106 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Fkidat,  July  24. 


nor  except  in  case  of  the  State,  without  such  com- 
pensation first  assessed  and  tendered." 

The  amendment  was  rejected. 

Sec.  14.  All  lands  within  the  State  are  declared 
to  be  allodial,  and  feudal  tenures  are  prohibited. 
Leases  and  grants  of  agricultural  land  for  a  longer 
term  than  fifteen  years,  in  which  rent  or  service  of 
any  kind  shall  be  reserved,  and  all  fines  and  like 
restraints  upon  alienation  reserved  in  any  grant  of 
land  hereafter  made,  are  declared  to  be  void. 

Mr.  BILLINGS  moved  to  strike  out  the 
word  "  agi'icultural ;"  which  amendment  was 
agreed  to. 

Mr.  BALCOMBE.  This  is  a  section  of 
some  considerable  importance.  I  must  con- 
fess that  I  am  not  prepared  at  this  time  to  say 
whether  I  am  in  favor  of,  or  opposed  to  in- 
serting it  in  the  Preamble  and  Bill  of  Rights. 
There  is  a  great  question  involved  in  this  sec- 
tion, and  over  which  there  has  been  much  dis- 
cussion, and  a  great  deal  of  dispute  in  the 
State  of  New  York,  and  in  some  of  the  other 
States  of  this  Union.  I  wish  to  refresh  my 
memory  upon  the  question  involved  in  it,  be- 
fore I  am  called  upon  to  vote  for  or  against  it. 
I  therefore  move  that  the  section  be  stricken 
out,  and  when  we  go  into  the  House  with  it, 
we  can  restore  it,  if  the  Convention  sees  fit, — 
and  in  the  mean  time  members  will  have  an 
opportunity  to  investigate  it. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  hope  the  motion  wiU 
not  prevail.  The  gentleman  has  alluded  to 
difficulties  which  have  existed  in  the  State  of 
New  York,  anl  to  the  differences  of  opinion 
which  have  existed  in  that  State  upon  this 
subject.  I  presume  there  has  been  no  differ- 
ence of  opinion  about  that  being  an  unfortu- 
nate state  of  affairs  in  New  York,  which  has 
arisen  out  of  a  state  of  things  which  is  in- 
tended to  be  prevented  in  this  State  by  this 
section.  In  the  State  of  New  York  there 
was  something  like  feudal  tenures,  and  if  the 
question  now  was,  whether  we  should  insert 
a  provision  in  the  Constitution  allowing  such 
tenures,  I  should  be  in  favor  of  the  gentle- 
man's motion.  But  we  wish  to  avoid  the 
difficulties  they  have  had  in  New  York,  and 
therefore  I  am  in  favor  of  the  clause  remain- 
ing where  it  is. 

Mr.  BALCOMBE.  The  fact  that  this  is  a 
very  important  question  induces  mc  at  thi^ 
time  to  move  to  strike  it  out,  and  then  at  some 
future  time  when  we  shall  have  a  full  Con- 
vention, we  can  move  to  insert  it  again.    We 


all  know  that  we  have  but  few  members  here, 
and  I  want  to  hear  the  questions  involved  in 
this  section  fully  discussed  in  committee  of 
the  Whole  at  some  future  time,  when  each 
member  will  have  the  opportunity  of  speaking 
as  many  times  as  he  desires.  If  we  pass  it 
by  now,  it  comes  up  in  the  Convention  upon 
the  adoption  of  it,  and  then  we  shall  each  of 
us  be  entitled  to  speak  only  fifteen  minutes. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  do  not  believe  there  is 
a  member  of  the  Convention  who  will  oppose 
the  insertion  of  this  article  in  the  Constitu- 
tion, and  I  do  not  believe  there  is  any  neces- 
sity for  any  body  to  speak  fifteen  minutes 
upon  it.  It  may  be  desirable  to  make  some 
amendments  to  it.  I  have  not  myself  given 
it  any  particular  attention.  It  may  not  be  in 
the  best  form  now,  but  that  there  will  be  any 
objection  to  it  I  do  not  believe. 

The  question  was  taken  upon  the  motion 
to  strike  out,  and  it  was  decided  in  the  nega- 
tive. • 

Mr.  BIILLINGS.  I  move  to  strike  out 
the  word  "  fifteen  "  and  insert  "  fifty." 

The  amendment  was  not  agreed  to. 

Sec.  16.  No  person  shall  be  imprisoned  for 
debt  arising  out  of  or  founded  upon  any  contract 
express  or  implied. 

Mr.  LOWE.  I  move  to  amend  that  section 
by  adding  at  the  end  thereof  the  words  "  un- 
"less  in  case  of  fraud." 

I  suppose  the  section  as  it  now  stands 
*  meets  the  ideas  of  gentlemen  here.  But  it  is 
apparent  that  there  are  some  gross  cases  of 
fraud  in  (f&ntracts  that  ought  to  be  punished, 
and  we  ought  not  to  place  it  out  of  the  power 
of  the  Legislature  to  provide  punishment  in 
such  cases. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  presume  it  was  the 
intention  of  the  committee  which  made  this 
report,  to  provide  for  what  the  amendment 
provides.  But  it  seems  to  me  they  did  not 
do  it.  It  says  "  no  person  shall  be  imprisoned 
"  for  debt  arising  out  of  or  founded  upon  any 
"  contract  expressed  or  implied,"  no  matter 
what  fraudulent  circumstances  there  might 
be  connected  with  that  debt. 

The  amendment  was  agreed  to. 

Sec.  17.  The  right  of  the  debtor  to  enjoy  the 
necessary  comforts  of  life  shall  be  recognized  by 
wholesome  laws,  exempting  a  reasonable  amount 
of  property  from  seizure  or  sale  for  the  payment 
of  any  debt  or  liability  hereafter  contracted. 

Mr.  LYLE.    The  subject  of  this  section 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Fbidat,  July  24. 


107 


properly  belongs  to  the  committee  on  Exemp- 
tions of  Real  and  Personal  Estate,  and  inas- 
much as  that  committee  have  made  a  report 
covering  this  whole  ground,  I  move  to  strike 
the  section  out. 

Mr.  BALCOMBE.  I  hope  the  motion  will 
not  prevail.  I  am  in  favor  of  inserting  in  the 
Conititution  a  homestead  exemption  clause, 
but  I  am  not  in  favor  of  a  clause  covering 
the  whole  ground,  and  leaving  nothing  for  the 
Legislature.  I  have  been  the  advocate  of  a 
homestead  exemption  law  for  many  years,  but 
there  are  others  in  this  Convention  and  out  of 
it  who  differ  with  me  as  to  the  amount  of 
exemption.  For  this  reason  I  would  not 
endanger  the  adoption  of  our  Constitution  by 
inserting  in  it,  an  unnecessary  clause,  which 
might  cause  many  to  vote  against  it,  who 
would  otherwise  vote  for  it.  I  think,  under 
the  circumstances,  that  this  is  a  matter  which 
we  ought  to  take  into  consideration.  There 
are  many  things  which  I  would  insist  on  hav- 
ing inserted  in  the  Constitution,  were  it  not 
for  the  peculiar  circumstances  by  which  we 
are  surrounded,  which  I  vnQ.  not  now  insist 
upon  ha\Tng  in  that  instrument.  I  think  all 
of  us  should  be  governed  by  the  same  spirit. 
I  think  all  we  are  called  upon  now  to  do,  is  to 
provide  that  the  Legislature  shall  have  power 
to  frame  an  exemption  law.  Then  let  that 
question  go  into  the  next  canvass,  and  mem- 
bers of  the  next  Legislature  will  be  elected  in 
reference  to  it. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  agree  with  the  gentle- 
man from  Winona  [Mr.  Balcombe]  that  we 
better  insert  in  the  Constitution  such  a 
general  clause  as  this,  in  preference  to  the 
more  lengthy  and  particular  provisions  of  the 
report  of  the  committee  on  Exemptions.  We 
should  do  it  not  only  as  a  matter  of  policy, 
but  as  a  matter  of  principle.  I  do  not  be- 
lieve it  is  the  province  of  a  Constitutional 
Convention  to  legislate  in  detail.  They 
should  only  lay  down  genei-al  principles  upon 
which  the  Legislature  shall  proceed,  and  by 
which  they  shall  be  governed.  As  the  sec- 
tion now  stands  it  imposes  upon  the  Legisla- 
ture the  necessity  of  making  laws  upon  the 
subject.  It  says  the  right  of  the  debtor  to 
enjoy  the  necessary  comforts  of  life,  shall  be 
recognized  by  wholesome  laws.  It  leaves  to 
the  Legislature  to  say  what  the  amount  of 
exemption  shall  be.     I  believe  it  is  a  proper 


provision  in  the  proper  place,  and  therefore 
hope  it  will  be  suffered  to  remain. 

Mr.  LYLE.  I  think  it  was  entirely  unne- 
cessary to  appoint  a  committee  on  Exemption 
if  that  committee  was  to  have  nothing  to  do — 
if  its  duties  could  all  be  performed  by  the 
committee  on  the  Preamble  and  Bill  of  Rights. 
I  deemed  it  very  necessary  that  such  a  com- 
mittee should  be  appointed,  and  also  that  a 
clause  should  be  inserted  in  the  Constitution 
guarding  the  rights  of  the  debtor,  and  also  a 
clause  guarding  the  rights  of  married  women. 

I  think  they  should  be  protected  by  the 
Constitution,  and  not  be  left  to  the  caprice  of 
the  Legislature.  I  think  we  shall  get  more 
votes  for  the  Constitution  if  we  insert  in  it 
the  report  of  the  committee  on  Exemption  of 
Real  Estate  &c.,  than  we  shall  with  only  this 
provision  in  it. 

Mr.  BOLLES.  I  hope  the  clause  will 
remain  as  it  is.  It  is  a  simple  declaration  of 
what  we,  as  a  body,  are  ready  to  start  out 
upon  in  reference  to  this  question.  It  is 
recognized  by  the  community  at  large  as  a 
legitimate  subject  of  legislation.  I  am  in 
favor  of  leaving  it  as  it  is.  Then  I  am  in 
favor  of  a  good  wholesome  exemption  law, 
and  I  hope  that  we  as  a  Republican  party 
will  adopt  that  as  our  creed.  I  happen  to  be 
somewhat  acquainted  with  the  rural  portions 
of  our  Territory,  and  I  know  that  the  popu- 
lar sentiment  is  in  favor  of  such  a  law.  But 
I  do  not  think  this  is  the  proper  time  to  dis- 
cuss the  details  of  such  a  law.  When  the 
report  of  the  committee  on  Exemption  shall 
come  under  discussion  I  shall  be  ready  to 
offer  an  amendment  enlarging  the  provisions 
there  recommended,  to  a  considerable  extent. 

The  motion  to  strike  out  was  lost. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  It  is  now  six  o'clock.  I 
I  move  that  the  committee  rise,  report  pro- 
gress and  ask  leave  to  sit  again. 

The  motion  was  lost. 

Ml'.  BILLINGS.  I  move  to  amend  by 
inserting  between  the  words  "wholesome" 
and  "laws"  the  word  "exemption"  and  to 
strike  out  the  remainder  of  the  section. 

The  amendment  was  agreed  to. 

Mr.  BILLINGS.  I  now  move  that  the 
committee  rise,  report  progress,  and  ask  leave 
to  sit  again. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to. 

So  the  committee  rose,  and  the  President 


108 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Satuedat,  July  25. 


having  resumed  the  chair,  the  Chairman 
reported  progress  and  asked  leave  to  sit 
again. 

Leave  was  granted. 

And  then  on  motion  of  Mr.  PERKINS, 
the  Convention  adjourned. 


TWELFTH  DAY. 

Satuedat,  July  25,  1857. 

The  Convention  met  at  nine  o'clock,  a.  m. 

No  quorum  being  present,  on  motion  of  Mr. 
BILLINGS,  a  call  of  the  Convention  was 
ordered. 

The  Clerk  proceeded  to  call  the  roll  when 
thirty  members  answered  to  their  names. 

A  quorum  being  present  all  further  pro- 
ceedings under  the  call  were  dispensed  with. 

The  journal  of  yesterday  was  read  and  ap- 
proved. 

Mr.  PERKINS  oflFered  the  following  reso- 
lution, which  was  read,  considered  and  agreed 
to: 

"  Besolved,  That  the  use  of  this  Hall  be  granted 
to  the  Rev.  Dr.  Roberts,  of  the  Reformed  Presby- 
terian Church  of  Iowa,  for  the  purpose  of  holding 
Divine  service  in  the  same  on  to-morrow  the  26th 
instant." 

WISH  OF  THE  PEOPLE  TO  BECOME  A   STATE. 

Mr.  BALCOMBE.  I  offer  the  following 
resolution : 

Whereas,  It  has  been  determined  by  the  as- 
piring leaders  of  the  Democratic  party  to  prevent, 
if  possible,  the  immediate  admission  of  Minnesota 
into  the  Union  of  States  as  a  sovereign  and  inde- 
pendent State ;  and  whereas  it  is  our  belief  that 
nearly  every  citizen  of  this  Territory  is  in  favor  of 
an  immediate  admission  as  possible,  therefore  be 
it— 

Besolved,  That  we  recommend  that  the  citizens 
of  this  Territory  hold  meetings  in  their  respective 
precincts  or  counties,  without  distinction  of  party, 
and  express  by  resolutions  their  desire  upon  this 
important  question." 

I  do  not  propose  Mr.  President,  to  press 
the  adoption  of  this  resolution  to-day.  I  of- 
fer it  now  that  it  may  lay  over  under  the  rule 
and  come  up  in  the  regular  order  of  business 
on  Monday,  at  which  time,  with  the  permis- 
sion of  the  Convention,  I  propose  to  make 
some  remarks  upon  it,  showing  that  it  is  the 
design  of  the  leaders  of  the  Democratic  party 
to  put  every  obstacle  in  the  way  of  the  ime- 
diate  admission  of  Minnesota  into  the  Union, 
and  I  mean  to  show  this  by  their  actions  and 
by  their  words. 


The  resolution  was  laid  over  under  the  rule, 

COMMITTEE   ON  LEAVE   OF  ABSENCE. 

The  PRESIDENT  appointed  Messrs.  Col- 
BUEN,  Davis  and  Duley  as  the  members  of 
the  committee  on  Leave  of  Absence,  ordered 
yesterday. 

On  motion  of  Mr.  BOBBINS,  the  Conven- 
tion resolved  itself  into  a  committee  of  the 
Whole  upon  the  report  of  the  committee  on 
Preamble  and  Bill  of  Rights,  (Mr.  Colbuen 
in  the  Chair.) 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  move  that  the  commit- 
tee now  rise.  I  believe  only  nine  members 
voted  in  favor  of  the  committee  of  the  Whole, 
and  seven  against  it.  I  believe  we  are  with- 
out a  quorum  and  I  make  the  motion  to  as- 
certain that  fact. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to. 

The  committee  accordingly  rose,  and  the 
President  having  resumed  the  Chair,  Mr. 
SECOMBE  moved  that  there  be  a  call  of  the 
House. 

A  call  of  the  House  was  ordered,  and  the 
roll  being  called  twenty -nine  members  (not  a 
quorum)  answered  to  their  names. 

The  Sergeant-at-Arms  was  directed  to  bring 
in  the  absentees. 

After  a  few  minutes, — 

Mr.  BOBBINS  moved  that  all  further  pro- 
ceedings under  the  call  be  dispensed  with. 

The  motion  was  not  agreed  to. 

And  then  on  motion  of  Mr.  SECOMBE  the  . 
Convention  adjourned  until  Monday  morning 
at  nine  o'clock. 


THIRTEENTH  DAY. 

Monday,  July  27,  1857. 

The  Convention  met  at  9  o'clock,  a.  m. 

Prayer  by  the  Chaplain^  Rev.  E.  D.  Neill. 

The  journal  of  Saturday  was  read  and 
approved. 

The  following  resolution,  laid  over  from 
Saturday,  coming  up  in  the  regular  order  of 
business,  viz : 

"  Whereas,  It  has  been  determined  by  the 
aspiring  leaders  of  the  Democratic  Party  to  pre- 
vent, if  possible,  the  immediate  admission  of  Min- 
nesota into  the  Union  of  States  as  a  sovereign  and 
independent  State ;  and 

"  Whereas,  It  is  our  belief  that  nearly  every  citi 
zen  of  this  Territory  is  in  favor  of  as  immediate 
admission  as  possible ;  therefore  be  it 

"Besolved,  That  we  recommend  that  the  citizens 
of  this  Territory  hold  meetings  in  their  respective 
precincts  or  counties  without  distinction  of  party. 


MINNESOTA  CONTFA'TION  DEBATES— Mosoat,  July  27. 


109 


and  express  by  resolves  their  desires  upou  this 
important  question." 

On  motion  of  Mr.  CLEGHORN,  the  same 
was  laid  upon  the  table  until  to-morrow. 

PREAJIBLE    AXD    BILL    OF   BIGHTS. 

Mr.  HARDING.  I  move  that  tlie  Conven- 
tion proceed  to  the  consideration  of  the  report 
of  the  committee, pn  the  Preamble  and  Bili  of 
Rights. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  understand  that  that 
bill  is  yet  in  committee  of  the  Whole. 

The  PRESIDENT.  The  bill  is  out  of  com- 
mittee every  time  the  committee  reports  to 
the  Convention. 

Mr.  ROBBINS.  I  believe  the  committee 
did  not  ask  leave  to  sit  again. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to. 

Mr.  BOLLES.  I  now  move  that  the  Con- 
vention resolve  itself  mto  a  committee  of  the 
"Whole  on  the  Preamble  and  Bill  of  Rights. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to. 

The  Convention  accordingly  resolved  itself 
into  a  committee  of  the  Whole  (Mr.  Stax- 
NARD  in  the  chair,)  and  resumed  the  consider- 
ation of  the  report  of  the  committee  on  the 
Preamble  and  Bill  of  Rights,  commencing 
where  the  committee  last  left  oflf,  being  section 
eighteen,  as  follows : 

"  The  right  of  every  man  to  worship  God 
according  to  the  dictates  of  his  own  conscience 
shall  never  be  infringed ;  nor  shall  any  man  be 
compelled  to  attend,  erect  or  support  any  place  of 
worship,  or  to  maintain  any  ministry  against  his 
consent.  Xor  shall  any  control  of  or  interference 
with  the  rights  of  conscience  be  permitted,  or  any 
preference  be  given  by  law  to  any  religious  estab- 
lisement  or  mode  of  worship.  Nor  shall  any 
money  be  drawn  from  the  Treasury  for  the  benefit 
of  religious  societies,  or  religious  or  theological 
seminaries." 

.  Mr.  MORGAN.  I  move  to  amend  by  in- 
serting before  the  word  "ministry,"  the  words 
"religious  or  ecclesiastical." 

The  amendment  was  agreed  to. 

Skc.  2-3.  Every  law  enacted  by  the  Legislature 
shall  embrace  but  one  object,  and  that  shall  be 
expressed  in  the  title. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  move  to  amend  the 
section  by  striking  out  the  word  "object' 
and  inserting  "  subject." 

The  amendment  was  adopted. 

Sec.  24.  Any  citizen  of  this  State  who  shall, 
after  the  adoption  of  this  Constitution,  fight  a  duel 
with  deadly  weapons,  or  send  or  accept  a  challenge 
to  fight  a  duel  with  deadly  weapons,  either  within 
this  State  or  out  of  it,  or  who  shall  act  as  second, 


or  knowingly  aid  or  assist  in  any  manner  those 
thus  oflFending,  shall  be  deprived  of  holding  any 
oflice  of  profit  or  trust  under  this  State. 

Mr.  MILLS.  I  move  to  strike  out  the 
whole  of  that  section  and  insert  in  lieu  thereof 
the  following : 

"Duelling  is  an  evil  and  shall  never  be  allowed 
in  this  State." 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  hope  the  amendment 
will  not  prevail.  It  seems  to  me  that  there  is 
no  better  way  of  preventing  the  evils  of  duel- 
ing than  that  proposed  in  the  section  as  it  is 
reported  from  the  committee,  and  I  am  very 
much  in  favor  of  it. 

Mr.  WILSON.  I  am  in  favor  of  the 
amendment.  I  am  in  general  opposed  to 
attaching  any  punishment  to  any  crime  be- 
yond that  which  the  court  which  convicts  the 
individual  may  inflict.  The  court  before 
which  the  accused  is  tried,  knows  the  circum- 
stances under  which  the  crime  was  committed, 
and  therefore  knows  better  than  anybody  else 
the  punishment  it  deserves.  The  court, 
therefore,  is  the  proper  tribunal  to  inflict  pun- 
ishment. This  legislating  in  our  Constitution, 
and  saying  that  in  every  case  of  a  certain 
ofifence,  there  shall  be,  so  to  speak,  a  revision- 
ary  punishment,  which  shall  attach,  is  wrong. 
We  can  probably  all  say,  and  I  can  say,  that 
I  believe  that  dueling  is  always  wrong,  but 
there  are  times  and  circumstances  when  the 
wrong,  if  not  justifiable,  is  certainly  an 
excusable  wrong. 

Another  thing :  wrong  or  right,  the  provis- 
ion will  be  got  around  in  some  way.  There 
are  times  and  circumstances  in  which  men 
will  fight  duels.  Take,  for  instance,  the  case 
of  the  present  Governor  of  Illinois,  Mr. 
Bissell.  He  sent  a  challenge.  Who  blamed 
liim  for  it  ?  The  citizens  of  his  own  State 
took  him  up  and  elected  him  Governor.  Who 
believes  he  was  wrong  in  the  course  he  took  ? 
He  believed  it  was  his  duty  to  do  as  he  did, 
and  he  made  the  champion  of  States'  rights 
in  the  south  "  crawfish," — to  use  an  expres- 
sive phrase.  He  did  a  good  work  for  the 
Free  State  party.  He  showed  southern  men 
that  they  could  not  abuse  Free  State  men 
vrith  impunity,  and  he  gave  a  check  to  the 
growing  opinion  of  the  South  that  Free  State 
men  were  cowards,  and  hiding  themselves 
vmder  the  plea  of  morality,  would  not  fight. 
That  case  has  made  a  great  many  Southern 


110 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Monday,  July  27. 


Congressmen  cautious  how  they  challenge 
Northern  men. 

Again,  take  the  case  of  Burlingame  and 
Brooks.  Shall  we  attach  an  eternal  punish- 
ment to  such  an  act  as  that  of  Burlingame's  ? 
Shall  we  go  beyond  the  punishment  which 
the  court  might  inflict  in  such  a  case  as  that? 
I  am  opposed  to  it,  and  I  would  not  have 
this  Convention  anticipate  all  cases.  I  should 
not  wonder  if  there  were  times  when  the  most 
moral  and  religious  of  men  in  this  Conven- 
tion should  justify  what  this  section  condemns. 
Circumstances  might  compel  them  to,  and 
hence  I  would  not  inflict  such  a  punishment 
for  such  an  offence.  Let  such  cases  take 
care  of  themselves,  for  we  have  no  fighting 
men  among  us,  and  hence  no  necessity  of  this 
provision. 

But  I  said  such  a  provision  would  be 
evaded.  In  the  State  of  Illinois  their  Consti- 
tution forbids  dueling,  and  how  did  they  get 
along  with  BisselFs  case?  Why  they  said 
he  was  not  at  the  time  a  citizen  of  the  State, 
• — being  out  of  it  at  the  time — and  therefore 
not  a  violation  of  the  law.  I  think  that  was 
a  quibble  myself;  but  it  shows  that  people 
will  get  around  the  provision  one  way  or 
another.  When  does  a  man  fight  in  his  own 
State  ?  It  is  almost  the  uniform  practice  to 
go  outside  of  the  State.  But  why  select  out 
this  crime,  as  though  it  were  the  most  henious 
of  all  crimes,  and  provide  for  it  punislmient 
in  the  Constitution  ?  Why  not  put  in  some- 
thing about  murder,  polygamy,  or  many  other 
crimes  ?  I  hope  the  amendment  will  be 
adopted.  It  is  true  such  a  provision  has  been 
incorporated  in  the  Constitutions  of  some 
other  States,  but  that  is  no  reason  why  we 
should  follow  their  example.  We  should  use 
our  own  judgment,  and  not  follow  because 
others  have  taken  the  lead.  It  may  be  well 
to  look  to  precedents,  and]  to  look  well  before 
we  depart  from  them,  but  I  am  not  in  favor 
of  this  provision. 

Mr.  BOBBINS.  I  move  a  substitute  for 
the  substitute,  and  that  is  to  strike  out  of 
the  original  section  all  after  the  word  "  offend- 
ing," and  insert  in  lieu  thereof  the  words, 

"Shall  bo  subject  to  such  punishment  aa  the 
liegislature  shall  determine  by  law." 

Mr.  MORGAN.  I  am  opposed  to  this  section 
in  this  place.  The  Bill  of  Rights  does  not  seem 
to  me  to  be  the  proper  place  for  inserting  a  code 


of  punishment  for  offences.  Pimishment  for 
crimes  are  usually  contained  in  the  statutes, 
and  not  in  the  Constitution.  There  are  many 
worse  offences  than  dueling,  and  to  say  that 
a  man  who  has  either  fought  a  duel,  or  has 
been  connected  with  one,  shall  be  forever 
disqualified  for  holding  office,  is  going  a  good 
ways.  A  man  may  be  guilty  of  manslaugh- 
ter, or  highway  robberry,  and  be  in  State 
prison  as  a  punishment  for  the  offence,  yet  if 
he  is  pardoned  out  one  day  before  the  expira- 
tion of  his  sentence,  he  is  restored  to  all  his 
civil  rights ;  but  a  man  who  has  been  con- 
nected in  any  way  with  a  duel,  cannot,  if  this 
section  is  adopted,  be  restored  to  his  civil 
nghts  without  a  change  of  the  Constitution. 

I  object  to  this  placing  in  the  BUI  of  Rights 
so  many  tilings  which  are  so  foreign  to  its 
object.  The  Bill  of  Rights  is  a  statement  of 
certain  rights  and  privileges  which  are  to  be 
forever  assured  to  the  people  of  the  State, 
and  it  is  never  supposed  that  it  will  treat  in 
detail  of  the  punishment  of  this  or  that 
offence.  The  matter  of  punishment  of  crimes 
is  a  proper  subject  of  legislation,  and  there  it 
should  be  left. 

Mr.  ALDRICH.  I  must  say  that  I  am 
opposed  to  the  section  entirely,  and  I  think  it 
better  to  strike  it  out  wholly,  than  to  adopt 
the  amendment  or  substitute.  At  the  same 
time  I  am  as  much  opposed  to  dueUng  as  any 
man,  but  cases  have  arisen  when  it  was  almost 
absolutely  necessary  for  a  man  to  stand  up  to 
his  rights,  even  to  the  extent  of  fighting  a 
duel.  I  know  the  Governor  of  Illinois,  [Mr. 
Bissell],  and  when  he  sent  that  challenge  to 
the  arch  nuUifier  of  Mississippi,  there  was 
not  a  citizen  of  Illinois  who  was  not  proud  of 
Governor  Bissell,  and  not  until  he  was  nomi- 
nated tor  Governor,  was  the  matter  even  re- 
garded in  other  than  the  most  approving  light. 

I  think  we  had  better  leave  the  matter  with 
the  Legislature.  If  we  put  all  of  these  things 
into  this  report,  we  shall  have  something 
entirely  different  from  the  Bill  of  Rights.  If 
the  gentleman  will  move  to  strike  out  the 
whole  section  I  will  vote  for  it. 

Mr.  ROBBINS.  I  wiU,  with  the  consent 
of  the  Convention,  withdraw  my  substitute. 

The  amendment  offered  by  Mr.  Mills 
was  then  agreed  to. 

Mr.  MORGAN.  I  move  to  strike  out  the 
whole  section  as  amended. 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Monday,  July  27. 


Ill 


Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  rise  to  a  point  of  order. 
The  Convention  have  just  determined  that  the 
section  shall  remain  in  a  certain  shape,  and  it 
cannot  be  in  order  to  strike  it  out. 

The  CHAIRMAN  thinks  the  point  of  order 
well  taken,  and  that  the  motion  is  not  admis- 
sible. 

Sbc.  25.  The  criminal  code  shall  be  founded  on 
principles  of  reformation,  and  not  of  yindictive 
jnstice. 

Mr.  LOWE.  I  move  to  strike  out  that 
section. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to. 
Sec.  27.  The  blessings  of  a  free  government 
can  only  be  maintained  by  a  firm  adherence  to 
justice,  moderation,  temperance  frugality  and  vir- 
tue, and  by  a  frequent  recurrence  to  fundamental 
principles. 

Mr.  SECO^klBE.  I  move  to  strike  out  that 
section.  There  is  nothing  in  it  I  disagree 
with,  but  it  seems  to  me  that  it  is  a  simple 
dissertation ;  that  it  does  not  entmciate  any- 
right  of  the  people ;  and  therefore  ought  not 
to  be  incorporated  in  the  Bill  of  Rights. 

Mr.  BILLINGS.     Our  proceedings  in  dis- 
posing of  this  report,  reminds  me  of  the  boy 
with  the  dnun,  who,  not  exactly  understand- 
ing where  the  music  came  from,  deemed  it 
his  duty  to  pull  it  to  pieces,  supposing  that 
he  should  find  something  inside  that  would 
explain    the    matter.      Here  gentlemen   say 
they  have  no  objection  to  certain  principles ; 
that  they  believe  they  are  true,  but  yet  are 
in  favor  of  striking  out  the  section  containing 
them.     Look  at  section  twenty -fifth  which  we 
have  stricken  out :  "  The  Criminal  Code  shall 
"be  founded  on  principles  of  reformation, 
"  and  not  of  vindictive  justice."     Is  not  that 
a  truism?     Is  there  a  man  here  who  does  not 
believe  the  principles  there  asserted?     And 
am  I  not  justified  in  saying  tliat  those  who 
voted  "  aye"  say  that  it  shall  be  formed  upon 
principles  of  vindictive  justice  ?     I  say  it  is 
better  to  affirm  and  re-affirm  a  good  principle, 
than  by  striking  it  out,  to  leave  it  without 
affirmation.     Now  this  section  declares  that 
"  the  blessings  of  a  free  government  can  only 
"  be  maintained  by  a  firm  adherence  to  jus- 
"  tice,  moderation,  temperance,  frugality  and 
"  virtue,  and  by  a  frequent  recurrence  to  fun- 
"  damental  principles."     That  is  true  ;  those 
principles  underlie  all  good  governments  and 
all  good  societies.     The  characteristics  which 
distinguish  a  good  citizen,  characterize  a  good 


government.  TThat  is  good  for  a  man  in  his 
individual  capacity — those  virtues  which  he 
should  nourish  as  an  individual,  are  good  for 
the  state  and  for  communities.  Now  will  it 
do  any  harm  to  say  that  these  private  virtues 
should  be  carried  out  in  our  government? 
Why  we  might  as  well  say  that  the  whole  Bill 
of  Riehts  is  surplusage,  and  move  to  strike 
it  all  out  at  once.  I  say  strike  out  every 
other  clause,  but  leave  me  this  27th  section. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  desire  to  say,  in  expla- 
nation, that  I  do  not  consider  that  when  I 
vote  to  strike  out  a  section,  I  am  denying  the 
principles  that  are  therein  set  forth.  This  is 
not  a  bill  of  principles  and  doctrines  that  we 
have  under  consideration,  but  a  declaration 
of  rights  which  we  believe  belong  to  the  citi- 
zens of  this  State. 

As  the  gentleman  has  referred  to  section 
twenty-five,  I  will  say,  that  this  and  that 
section  differ  materially.  That  section,  as  it 
stood  before  it  was  stricken  out,  did  enunci- 
ate a  right,  and  that  was,  that  no  person 
should  be  punished  imder  a  criminal  code 
which  was  formed  upon  principles  of  vindic- 
tive justice.  But  it  was  the  pleasure  of  the 
committee  to  strike  that  out.  But  section 
twenty-seven  enunciates  no  right  or  privilege, 
but  merely  a  general  principle  which  no  one 
will  dispute. 

Mr.  BOLLES.  I  hope  the  motion  to  strike 
out  will  not  prevail.  It  is  certainly  true  that 
in  this  article  proposed  to  be  incorporated  in 
our  Constitution  we  not  only  assert  a  feet, 
but  declare  to  the  world  what  are  the  prin- 
ciples upon  which  we  base  oiur  Constitution. 
This  section,  in  a  short  and  comprehensive 
maimer,  enumerates  some  of  those  principles, 
and  it  seems  to  me  proper  that  in  summing 
up  this  Bill  of  Rights,  that  this  final  section 
should  be  incorporated  in  it. 

The  motion  to  strike  out  was  lost. 
Mr.  MORGAN.     Will  it  be  proper  now  to 
refer  back  to  section  twenty-two  ? 

The  CHAIRMAN.  It  will  if  there  is  no 
objection.     The  chair  hears  no  objection. 

Mr.  MORGAN.  Section  twenty-two  reads 
as  follows : 

"Xo  lottery  shall  ever  be  authorized  by  this 
State,  and  the  buying  and  selling  of  lottery  tick- 
ets is  hereby  prohibited." 

Now  I  move  to  strike  out  all  after  the  word 
''  State,"  and  my  reason  for  the  amendment 


112 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Monday,  July  27. 


is  that  the  first  part  of  the  section  is  in  the 
nature  of  a  prohibition  upon  the  Legislature, 
and  as  such  very  properly  in  this  Bill  of 
Rights ;  but  the  second  part  is  a  matter  of 
legislation  merely,  and  should  be  left  to  the 
control  of  that  body.  It  is  departing  from 
all  correct  principle  to  enact  a  law  in  the  Bill 
of  Rights. 

The  amendment  was  rejected. 

Mr.  BILLINGS.  I  move  to  add  the  fol- 
lowing section : 

"  Sec.  — .  To  guard  against  transgressions  of 
the  high  powers  which  we  have  delegated,  we  de- 
clare everything  in  this  article  is  excepted  out  of 
the  general  powers  of  government,  and  shall  for- 
ever remain  inviolate,  and  that  all  laws  contrary 
thereto,  or  contrary  to  this  Constitution  shall  be 
void." 

Mr.  MORGAN.  It  seems  to  me  that  such 
a  section  would  not  work  very  well,  as  some 
of  our  propositions  in  this  Bill  of  Rights  are 
affirmative  and  some  are  negative.  It  is  a 
very  unusual  provision,  and  I  must  confess  I 
do  not  see  how  it  can  operate. 

Mr.  PERKINS.  I  do  not  see  the  need  of 
a  section  of  this  kind.  It  does  not  add  any 
particular  sanctity  or  obligation  to  the  Consti- 
tution. That  all  enactments  of  the  Legisla- 
ture, in  contravention  to  this  Constitution, 
shall  be  void,  is  certainly  a  principle  which 
cannot  be  gainsay ed,  and  it  need  not  be  affirmed 
and  reaffirmed.  The  acts  of  the  Legislature 
which  conflict  with  the  Constitution  must  be 
void,  and  it  seems  to  me  folly  to  add  a  sec- 
tion of  that  kind. 

Mr.  WILSON.  I  certainly  am  opposed  to 
that  amendment,  because,  as  has  just  been 
stated,  the  facts  asserted  in  that  section  lie  at 
the  very  foundation  of  all  government.  And 
the  idea  that  the  Constitution  is  above  all  law 
is  something  which  needs  no  affirmation. 

Mr.  BILLINGS/  My  idea  of  the  necessity 
of  this  section  arose  from  the  fact  that  we 
have  in  this  preamble  enumerated  certain 
rights  as  belonging  to  the  people.  But  there 
are  still  remaining  with  the  people  a  large 
number  of  rights  which  we  cannot  enume- 
rate, and  to  guard  those  unenumerated  rights, 
I  proposed  that  section. 

Mr.  WILSON.  I  think  the  section  has 
just  a  contrary  effect  from  what  the  gentle- 
man intends. 

The  amendment  was  withdrawn. 


Mr.  ALDRICH.  I  offer  the  foUowing  a3 
an  additional  section : 

"  Sec.  —  The  enumeration  of  the  foregoing 
rights  shall  not  be  construed  to  impair  or  deny 
others  retained  by  the  people." 

Mr.  MORGAN.  That  is  almost  in  the  very 
language  of  the  Constitution  of  the  United 
States,  which  is  in  these  words : 

"  The  enumeration  in  the  Constitution  of  cer- 
tain rights  shall  not  be  construed  to  deny  or  dis- 
parrage  others  retained  by  the  people." 

The  amendment  was  agreed  to. 

Mr.  PERKINS.  I  move  to  strike  out  sec- 
tion twenty -two  from  the  Bill  of  Rights. 

The  CHAIRMAN.  The  Chair  will  put  the 
question  if  it  is  not  objected  to. 

Mr.  DAVIS.  I  object,  as  we  have  already 
passed  over  that  section. 

Mr.  WILSON.  I  move  to  amend  the  thir- 
teenth section. 

The  CHAIRMAN.  The  Chair  wiU  enter- 
tain the  motion  if  there  is  no  objection. 

No  objection  was  made. 

Mr.  WILSON.  I  move  to  add  to  the  sec- 
tion the  words — 

"  And  the  jury  or  Commissioners  assessing  the 
damages  shall  not  take  into  consideration  any  ad- 
vantage which  shall  result  to  the  owner  on  account 
of  any  improvement  for  which  it  was  taken." 

I  offer  the  amendment  for  the  folllowing 
reasons  :  Where  public  improvements,  such 
as  railroads,  pass  through  the  country,  they 
do  great  injury  to  the  property  of  individu- 
als, and  in  such  cases  it  is  customary  to  ap- 
point Commissioners  or  a  jury  to  assess  the 
damages.  Now  those  Commissioners  or  jury 
in  assessing  the  damages,  take  into  account 
the  benefit  which  the  individual  damaged  re- 
ceives from  that  railroad  or  other  public  im- 
provement running  through  his  farm.  That 
is  unjust.  His  neighbor  by  his  side,  and  the 
whole  community  around  him,  are  reaping  the 
benefit  of  that  public  improvement,  as  much 
as  he  is,  and  yet  he  has  to  pay  for  the  benefit 
which  he  receives,  while  they  pay  nothing. 
I  think  it  is  palpably  WTong. 

Mr.  LOWE.  I  hope  the  amendment  will 
not  prevail.  It  seems  to  me  that  it  infringes 
upon  the  province  of  the  Legislature.  It 
strikes  mo  that  the  section  as  reported  by  the 
committee  is  all  that  ought  to  be  incorporated 
into  the  Constitution.  What  is  just  compen- 
sation ought  to  be  IcfTt  to  the  Legislature  to 
decide.     The  gentleman  says  that  in  assess- 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Mosdat,  July  27. 


lis 


ing  damages,  to  take  into  consideration  the 
benefit  accruing  from  the  public  improvement, 
is  palpably  unjust.  Now  to  me  it  does  not 
appear  so.  The  very  fact  that  juries  have 
decided  so,  proves  to  me  clearly  that  it  is  not 
palpably  vrrong.  If  that  is  the  custom  in  aU 
parts  of  the  coimtry,  why  the  gentleman's 
amendment  settles  the  question  against  the 
custom  and  sense  of  the  country, — which  is 
itself  palpaply  wrong. 

At  the  rate  we  are  going  on,  it  seems  to  me 
that  we  shall  infringe  upon  the  legislative  pow- 
er of  the  government  to  a  very  great  degree. 
We  are  doing  more  than  ought  to  be  done  by 
any  Constitutional  Convention — ^we  axe  legis- 
lating too  much  in  the  Constitution. 

Mr.  WILSON.  The  very  reasons  adduced 
by  gentlemen  in  favor  of  leaving  this  out,  are 
the  most  cogent  reasons  for  inserting  it. 
Why,  it  is  our  duty,  as  a  Constitutional  Con- 
vention, to  say  what  the  Legislature  shall  and 
shall  not  do.  The  very  fact  that  Legislatures 
have  heretofore  declared  that  the  benefits  de- 
rived from  public  improvements,  may  or  shall 
be  taken  into  accoimt  upon  the  assessment  of 
damages  sustained  by  an  individual  upon 
those  works,  proves  that  it  is  necessary  to 
insert  such  a  provision  into  the  Constitution, 
so  that  subsequent  Legislatures  cannot  be 
bought  up  by  these  mammoth  corporations, 
which  are  able  to  buy  every  Legislature  which 
ever  sat  in  this  Territory. 

A  and  B,  for  instance,  have  farms  side  by 
side,  and  a  railroad  passes  through  the  coun- 
try cutting  off  ten  acres  of  A' s  farm.  There  is 
the  loss  of  that  amount  of  land  to  him,  and  the 
extra  expense  of  making  fences,  &c  B  through 
whose  farm  the  road  does  not  pass,  receives 
an  equal  amount  of  benefit  as  A.  Now  when 
the  CoDMnissioners  or  jury  come  to  assess  A's 
damages,  they  say  to  him  "  your  remaining 
"  fifty  acres  are  worth  fifteen  dollars  more  per 
"  acre  tlian  they  were  before  the  railroad  was 
"  built,  and  that  amounts  to  seven  hundred  and 
"fifty  dollars,  which  must  be  deducted  from 
*'  the  damages  you  received  by  having  the  ten 
*'  acres  taken  for  the  road."  B's  form,  and  all 
the  others  go  ft«e.  Now  why  should  A  pay 
any  more  than  any  other  person  who  is  equally 
benefitted  ?  There  is  no  reason  for  it,  except 
that  these  corporations  have  been  base  enough 
and  rich  enough  to  buy  up  the  Legislature  to 
make  laws  that  suit  their  convenience. 
15 


Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  am  obliged  to  differ 
with  the  gentleman  from  Winona.  I  beUeve 
that  the  rule  he  inveighs  against  is  eminently 
just  and  equitable,  and  it  has  been  adopted  in 
all  the  States.  This  is  the  principle.  If  an 
individual  is  benefitted  vastly  more  than  he 
is  injured,  or  if  he  is  benefitted  a  Uttle  more 
tlian  he  is  injured,  he  shall  not  receive  the 
full  amount  of  damages,  independent  of  the 
benefit ;  but  that  the  benefit  shall  be  offset 
against  the  damages.  But  the  gentleman 
says  that  in  the  operation  of  this  rule  one 
man  is  benefitted  more  than  another,  and  he 
complains  of  that  result.  Tlfet  is  no  new 
complaint.  We  read  in  a  very  old  book  of 
certain  laborers,  a  part  of  whom  commenced 
laboring  with  the  morning,  a  part  in  the 
middle  of  the  forenoon,  others  at  noon,  and 
others  at  a  late  hour  of  the  night,  and  each  of 
them  received  the  fiiU  pay  of  a  day's  labor. 
But  the  man  who  commenced  in  the  morning 
made  complaint  because  the  eleventh  hour 
man  had  been  paid  as  much  as  he  had.  But 
he  was  rebuked.  He  had  received  all  that 
belonged  to  him,  and  it  was  none  of  his  busi- 
ness if  the  eleventh  hour  man  had  received 
more. 

The  same  principle  appHes  here.  A  has  a 
farm  worth  five  dollars  an  acre,  and  likely  to 
be  worth  no  more  for  years  to  come.  But  a 
railroad  passes  through  his  drm  and  takes 
away  fifteen  acres,  and  he  is  thereby  deprived 
of  what  it  is  worth,  being  seventy-five  dollars. 
He  should  receive  compensation  for  that 
seventy-five  dollars.  But  by  the  railroad 
passing  through  his  farm,  the  balance,  say 
one  hundred  acres,  is  increased  in  value  five 
dollars  an  acre.  The  value  is  raised  by  the 
very  act  by  which  he  lost  the  seventy-five 
dollars.  Now  the  gentleman  says  there  are 
other  fiirmers  along  the  road,  but  not  touch- 
ing upon  it,  who  consequently  lose  none  of 
their  land,  but  receive  a  benefit  equal  to  him 
through  whose  £irm  the  road  passes,  and 
therefore  they  make  more  than  he  does.  Not 
that  he  loses  anything ;  not  that  he  is  injured, 
but  that  others  make  more  than  he  does. 
Now  the  increased  value  of  his  one  hundred 
acres  is  five  hundred  dollars,  and  deducting 
from  that  seventy-five  dollars,  leaves  his  bene- 
fit four  hundred  and  twenty-five  dollars  by 
the  operation.  But  says  the  gentleman,  here 
is  his  neighbor  who    makes  five    hundred 


114 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Mondat,  Jult  27. 


dollars,  and  it  is  unreasonable.  It  seems  to 
me  it  is  very  reasonable,  just  and  right. 

However  this  may  be,  it  is  a  proper  sub- 
ject to  be  left  to  the  determination  of  the  Leg- 
islature ;  and  I  am  willing  to  leave  it  to  that 
body  to  say  by  what  rule  of  evidence  that 
just  compensation  shall  be  arrived  at.  If  it 
is  the  opinion  of  the  Legislature  that  it  is  just 
and  reasonable  that  where  a  public  benefit  is 
carried  on,  a  person  who  holds  private  prop- 
erty which  is  taken  for  public  use,  shall 
receive  the  full  compensation  for  that  property, 
making  no  allowance  for  the  benefit  he  receives, 
I  shall  be  wilfing  to  let  it  go  in  that  way. 
But  I  am  satisfied  that  no  Legislature  would 
ever  make  any  such  rule. 

Mr.  PERKINS.  In  this  thirteenth  section 
an  important  principle  is  laid  down,  and  it  is 
enunciated  in  almost  if  not  all  the  Constitu- 
tions of  the  severfd  States,  and  is  contained 
in  the  Constitution  of  the  United  States 
itself,  in  the  words : 

"  Nor  shall  private  property  be  taken  for  public 
use  without  just  compensation." 

— I  am  opposed,  however,  to  the  amendment 
offered  by  the  gentleman  from  "Winona,  be- 
cause it  is,  in  my  opinion,  an  innovation  which 
ought  not  to  be  made.  That  clause  in  the 
Constitution  of  the  United  States,  and  in 
other  States,  has  received  an  interpretation  by 
many  judicial  decisions  so  that  its  meaning 
cannot  \>e  mistaken.  I  think  the  almost  uni- 
versal decision  has  been  that  under  that 
clause  no  private  property  can  be  taken  with- 
out just  compensation  in  money.  That  is, 
if  land  has  been  taken  for  the  public  use,  the 
actual  value  of  that  land  at  the  time  must  be 
paid  in  money,  and  you  cannot  offset  the 
advantage  likely  to  accrue  to  the  property 
holder  from  the  taking  of  his  property.  It 
has  received  this  definite  and  precise  signifi- 
cation, and  it  seems  to  me  the  section,  as  it 
stands,  goes  far  enough,  and  that  no  attempt 
should  be  made  by  us  at  this  time  to  tie  up 
the  hands  of  the  Legislature.  The  Legisla- 
ture has  the  right  to  say  that  if  the  person 
whose  property  is  taken  sets  a  value  upon  his 
property  beyond  its  real  value,  that  the  bene- 
fit which  he  derives  from  that  public  appro- 
priation of  his  property  may  be  offset.  But 
that  is  as  far  as  they  have  ever  had  any  right 
to  go  under  this  clause  of  the  Constitution. 
But  further  than  tb&t,  it  is  improper  to 


introduce  a  principle  in  the  Constitution  which 
properly  belongs  to  the  legislative  department 
of  the  Government.  Let  us  take  a  provision 
which  is  already  construed  by  existing  judi- 
cial decisions,  and  rest  content  with  that. 
That  is  the  safest  course. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  trust  the  amendment 
will  not  be  adopted,  and  my  particular  reason 
is  that  this  is  not  the  place  for  a  provision  of 
that  kind.  I  conceive  that  the  amendment 
partakes  strongly  of  the  nature  of  legislation, 
and  I  shall  oppose  the  introduction  of  any- 
thing into  the  Constitution  which  partakes  so 
strongly  of  legislation  as  this  does.  If  it 
should  be  incorporated  anywhere  in  that 
instrument  it  should  be  under  the  head  of  the 
rights  and  privileges  of  corporations.  But  I 
am  opposed  to  it  here,  and  opposed  to  it  else- 
where in  the  Constitution. 

Mr.  DAVIS.  For  my  part,  I  am  in  favor 
of  the  amendment,  because  I  believe  it  is 
founded  upon  principles  of  justice  and  equity. 
I  had  prepared  a  similar  amendment  myself, 
though  I  was  not  present  when  the  clause 
was  regularly  under  consideration.  It  is  not 
just,  in  my  opinion,  to  take  into  consideration 
in  such  cases,  the  increased  value  of  the 
remaining  property.  I  believe  that  where  a 
public  improvement  of  the  kind  mentioned  is 
made,  and  the  whole  community  is  benefitted, 
they  should  all  be  compelled  to  contribute, 
and  I  am  in  favor  of  inserting  that  provision 
here  because  I  think  this  is  the  proper  place 
for  it,  so  that  no  future  Legislature  can  get 
around  the  provision.  If  our  Legislatures 
can  be  bought  up  as  they  have  been  hereto- 
fore, it  is  proper  and  just  that  we  should  put 
up  the  bar  against  their  acts.  As  to  this 
section,  without  the  amendment,  having  given 
general  satisfaction  wherever  it  has  been 
adopted,  I  beg  leave  to  differ  with  gentlemen 
in  that  opinion.  It  may  have  given  general 
satisfaction  to  corporations,  but  it  is  not  true 
that  it  has  given  satisfaction  to  the  farmers, 
and  those  who  are  most  likely  to  be  injured 
by  the  operation  of  it.  I  knew  an  instance 
where  one  man  was  injured  to  the  amount  of 
hundreds  of  dollars,  and  he  received  a  mere 
nominal  compensation  for  the  damages,  while 
his  neighbors,  who  received  equal  advantage 
with  himself,  were  not  compelled  to  contribute 
anything  toward  the  right  of  way  of  the  road 
which  caused  the  benefit  and  the  mjury. 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Monday,  Jclt  27. 


115 


As  to  this  being  an  innovation,  I  am  fairly 
sick  of  hearing  that  argument  brought  before 
this  Convention,  If  we  are  not  able  to  walk 
alone  let  us  go  home.  I  take  it  that  we  are 
able  to  think  and  act  for  ourselves,  and  I  do 
not  think  it  is  necessary  for  us  to  go  back 
and  ascertain  what  has  been  heretofore,  before 
we  shall  decide  what  we  shall  do.  We  are  able 
to  decide  for  ourselves,  and  let  us  do  it.  Let 
us  hear  no  more  of  this  matter  of  innovation. 

I  favor  the  amendment  and  hope  it  will  be 
adopted,  because  I  believe  the  community 
are  in  favor  of  it,  and  because  I  believe  the 
farmers  throughout  the  country  and  others 
holding  land  will  sanction  the  proceeding  of 
the  Convention,  should  we  adopt  this  amend- 
ment. Let  us  show  to  the  farmers  that  we 
are  not  in  favor  of  giving  monopolies  the 
power  of  trampling  them  vmder  foot;  and 
they  will  show  us,  in  turn,  that  they  will 
sanction  our  doings. 

Mr.  BALCOMBE.  I  rise  not  to  discuss 
the  question  properly  before  the  committee, 
but  to  ask  a  favor  of  the  committee.  Yester- 
day I  offered  a  resolution  and  gave  notice 
that  I  should  desire  to  make  some  remarks 
upon  it  to-day.  Since  I  came  into  the  Capi- 
tol this  morning,  I  have  been  into  the  other 
Hall  of  this  building  and  have  heard  a  discus- 
sion going  on  there  in  which  this  resolution 
was  referred  to,  and  before  that  discussion 
goes  out  to  the  world,  I  desire  that  my  own 
remarks  upon  my  own  resolution  should  first 
appear.  To  enable  me  to  make  those  remarks 
at  this  time,  I  ask  the  fiivor  of  the  committee 
that  they  rise  and  ask  leave  to  sit  again. 
With  the  consent  of  the  committee,  I  will 
make  that  motion. 

The  motion  was  unanimously  agreed  to. 

So  the  committee  rose,  reported  progress 
and  asked  leave  to  sit  again. 

Leave  was  granted. 

On  motion  of  Mr.  BALCOMBE,  the  report 
of  the  committee  of  the  Whole  was  laid  upon 
the  table  and  made  the  special  order  for 
to-day  at  two  o'clock. 

On  motion,  the  rules  were  then  suspended 
by  a  two-third  vote  so  far  as  to  enable  the 
Convention  to  take  from  the  table  the  resolu- 
tion offered  by  Mr.  Balcombe,  yesterday. 

The  preamble  and  resolution  introduced  by 
Mr.  Balcombe  on  Satvuxiay,  having  been  read 
»s  follows : 


Whereas,  It  has  been  determined  by  the  aspi- 
ring leaders  of  the  Democratic  party  to  prevent,  if 
possible,  the  immediate  admission  of  Minnesota 
into  the  Union  of  States,  as  a  sovereign  State,  and 

Whereas,  It  is  our  belief  that  nearly  every  citi- 
zen of  this  Territory  is  in  favor  of  as  Immediate 
an  admission  as  possible,  therefore  be  it 

Besolved,  that  we  recommend  that  the  citizens 
of  this  Territory  hold  meetings  in  their  respective 
precincts  or  counties,  without  distinction  of  party, 
and  express  by  resolves  their  desires  upon  this 
important  question ; 

Mr.  BALCOMBE  said,  [Mr.  Wilsos  in  the 
Chair]  I  wish  it  distinctly  understood  before 
I  proceed  to  make  any  remarks  upon  the  reso- 
lution before  the  Convention,  that  I  am  not 
accustomed  to  making  speeches;  that  I  do 
not  rise  simply  for  the  purpose  of  making  a 
speech ;  and  that  as  I  am  not  a  candidate  for 
the  United  States  Senate,  it  will  not  be 
expected  that  I  shoidd  make  a  three  hour's 
speech.  I  rise  simply  to  perform  what  I  con- 
sider to  be  a  duty  to  my  constituents,  to  my 
party  and  to  myself.  In  some  respects  it  is 
a  painful  duty  ;  in  others  it  is  a  pleasurable 
(Hie. 

The  resolution  which  I  offered  on  Saturday, 
distinctly  charges  upon  the  leaders  of  the 
Democratic  party  a  determination  to  prevent 
Minnesota  from  going  into  the  L'nion  as  a 
State,  and  I  promised  when  I  offered  it,  to 
prove  by  their  own  knowledge,  by  their  own 
connection  with  and  actions  in  parliamentary 
bodies  heretofore,  that  they  knew  that  this 
Convention  had  proceeded  in  a  legal  and  regu- 
lar manner ;  and  that  the  only  conclusion  any 
one  can  come  to  from  their  actions,  from  the 
assembling  of  this  Convention  up  to  the  pres- 
ent time,  is  that  their  object  is  to  defeat  the 
wish  of  the  people,  which  is  to  go  into  the 
Union  as  a  State  immediately.  I  also  prom- 
ised to  prove  that  the  leaders  of  that  party 
knew  before  assembling,  that  they  were  in  a 
minority  in  this  Convention,  and  expected 
that  it  would  proceed  to  business  in  the  man- 
ner which  it  has  done. 

The  defence  they  make  for  their  course, 
will  be  found  in  the  four  following  points : 
First,  that  the  Republicans  demanded  that 
all  those  who  presented  certificates  of  election 
from  the  proper  ofiBcer  within  the  limits  of 
I  the  proposed  State  should  be  permitted  to 
take  their  seats  and  be  qualified,  in  accord- 
ance with  the  general  rule  that  a  certificate  i« 


115 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Monday,  July  27. 


prima  facie  evidence  which  always  entitles 
the  possessor  to  the  seat  in  the  first  instance. 

I  insist  that  such  is  the  general  rule  govern- 
ing all  deliberative  bodies.  That  there  have 
been  exceptions  to  the  rule,  I  do  not  deny. 
That  parties  have,  in  the  heat  of  party  strife, 
seen  fit  in  certain  instances,  to  accomplish 
certain  party  ends,  to  directly  violate  that 
rule,  I  do  not  deny.  But  are  exceptions  to  a 
rule  to  be  followed  in  preference  to  the  rule 
itself?  No  man  will  contend  for  that.  But 
an  exception  to  that  rule,  in  the  New  Jersey 
case,  in  the  House  of  Representatives  of  Con- 
gress, has  been  paraded  before  the  public,  as 
an  instance  of  what  the  rule  is.  I  deny  that 
that  case  was  decided  in  accordance  with  the 
general  inile.  I  insist  that  it  was  an  excep- 
tion; and  assert  that  that  violation  of  the 
general  rule  did  much  to  bring  about  the  de- 
feat of  the  Democratic  party,  in  1840.  In 
1839,  their  leaders  and  members  in  Congress 
violated  the  general  rule  of  parliamenta,ry 
bodies,  and  in  doing  so  kept  out  of  their  seats 
in  the  House  of  Representatives,  members 
who  appeared  there  with  their  certificates. 
That  departure  from  the  well  known,  and 
general  rule,  has  received  the  condemnation 
of  the  members  of  all  parties,  ever  since, 
and  will  for  all  time  to  come. 

I  say,  sir,  that  it  has  been  the  universal 
rule  to  admit  members  who  presented  prima 
facie  evidence  of  election — that  is  to  say, 
certificates  of  election  from  the  proper  officers 
in  the  first  instance.  Look  over  the  journals 
of  the  United  States  Senate  and  House  of 
Representatives,  and  of  all  the  legislatures  in 
the  country,  and  you  will  not  find  one  instance 
in  twenty  where  that  rule  has  been  departed 
from.  I  propose  to  refer  this  Convention  to 
the  remarks  made,  and  the  course  taken,  in 
the  United  States  Senate  in  a  case  which 
might  be  ^considered  an  extreme  case ;  and 
where  the  general  rule  might  have  been 
set  aside  with  some  show  of  propriety.  But 
even  in  that  instance  jt  was  not  set  aside. 
On  the  sixth  day  of  December,  1852,  Hon. 
Archibald  Dixon  presented  his  CTedcntials  to 
the  United  States  Senate,  claiming  a  seat  in 
that  body.  Objection  was  made  to  his  being 
qualified,  on  the  ground  that  the  seat  which 
he  claimed  was  not  varnnt,  and  that  there 
were  already  two  seats  filled  by  Senators  from 
Kentucky .    A  motion  was  made  to  refer  the 


matter  to  a  committee.  The  Senate  refused 
to  do  it.  In  that  case  the  Senator  came  ^-ith 
with  a  certificate  from  the  Governor  of  his 
State, — ^Q  prima  facie  evidence  that  he  was 
entitled  to  a  seat  in  that  body.  On  the  other 
side,  it  was  contended  that  there  was  pnma 
facie  evidence  that  Mr.  Meriwether  still  occu- 
pied a  seat  in  that  body,  and  that  there  was 
no  vacancy.  The  Senate  would  not  refer  the 
matter,  but  immediately  entered  upon  its  con- 
sideration, and  by  common  consent  continued 
to  discuss  it  untn  the  claimant  was  admitted 
to  his  seat  and  sworn  in.  This  was  a  contest 
between  two  who  had  presented  the  prima 
facie  evidence — the  certificate.  Those  who 
spoke  in  favor  of  Mr.  Dixon's  right  to  a  seat 
presented  to  the  Senate  niunerous  instances 
where  the  certificate  of  election  had  been  con- 
sidered pnma  fads  evidence,  and  that  the 
Senate  had  been  governed  by  it  in  its  action. 
It  was  declared  to  have  been  the  univers'cl 
rule  governing  the  actions  of  that  body,  to 
admit  to  a  seat  the  man  who  presented  his 
certificate  of  election — one  case  only  excepted, 
which  seems  to  have  passed  by  xmanimous 
consent.  The  assertions  of  those  supporting 
Mr.  Dixon's  right,  were  not  denied  by  the 
opposition.  In  their  remarks  they  tacitly  and 
repeatedly  admitted  that  if  another  person 
was  not  occupying  that  seat  at  the  time,  (as 
they  contended  there  was,)  the  claimant  would 
have  a  right  to  take  it  and  be  sworn  in  as  a 
member ;  and  that  after  that,  the  contestant, 
if  there  was  one,  could  come  in  and  contest 
the  right.  In  the  course  of  that  discussion, 
Mr.  Seward  said : 

"  The  case  is,  prima  facie,  complete ;  and  in  re- 
ceiving Senators  it  is  the  custom,  and  has  been  the 
custom  of  the  Senate  of  the  United  States,  from 
the  foundation  of  the  Government,  to  receive  the 
Senator  who  comes  prima  facie  entitled  to  fill  a 
vacancy  known  and  admitted  to  exist,  witli  a  com- 
mission given  him  by  the  Legislature  of  the  State 
in  whose  service  the  vacancy  has  arisen." 

Mr.  Dawson  said  : 

"I  think,  Mr.  President,  that  during  your  long 
experience  in  this  body  you  have  never  known  such 
an  application  as  the  present  one  to  be  denied.  I 
do  not  think  tliere  has  been  any  case  since  you 
occupied  that  chair,  or  have  been  a  member  on 
this  floor,  wlierc  a  member  presenting  the  broad 
seal  of  his  State,  was  not  permitted  to  occupy  the 
scat,  and  if  there  was  a  contest,  it  waste  be  settled 
afterwards.  «  *  *  It  is  said  that  there  arc 
doubts  8!!  to  whether  Mr,  Dixon  is  entitled  to  th» 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Monday,  July  27. 


117 


seat.  If  there  be  doubts,  as  the  Senator  from  ' 
Tennessee  suggests,  to  whom  should  you  give  the 
benefit  of  them  ?  Of  course  to  the  party  claiming 
the  seat  under  the  broad  seal  of  one  of  the  sove- 
reign States  of  this  Union,'equally  interested  with 
us  in  preserving  the  Constitution.  Hence  it  is 
that  I  say  he  should  be  permitted  to  take  his  seat, 
and  then  when  the  report  comes  in,  in  the  Ian-  | 
guage  of  the  Senator  from  South  Carolina,  we  can 
consider  it  maturely.  By  the  comse  that  I  have 
proposed,  we  shall  stick  to  precedent,  and  cannot 
be  charged  with  evasion,  or  with  changing  our 
course  for  any  consideration." 

Mr.  Jones,  of  Tennessee,  said : 

"  The  certificate  of  election  is  the  highest  testimo- 
nial that  can  be  presented.  It  makes  out  &pritna 
facie  case,  and  has  been  so  held  by  the  Senate  from 
its  organization  to  the  present  day  with  but  one 
solitary  exception,  that  I  have  been  able  to  find 
in  the  journals." 

Mr.  Jones  further  said : 

"But,  sir,  while  gentlemen  admit  the  commission 
is  prima  facie  evidence,  they  say  it  is  not  conclu- 
sive. Well,  it  may  not  be  conclusive  in  every 
instance  that  may  possibly  arise,  but  is  it  not  some- 
what remarkable  that  in  all  the  cases  which  have 
arisen  from  the  formation  of  the  Government  of 
the  United  States  to  the  present  day,  it  has  been 
regarded  as  conclusive,  except  in  one  solitary  case  ? 
*  *  *  What  were  the  motives  which  operated 
upon  the  minds  of  the  Senate  in  that  case  we  are 
not  informed.  *  *  *  But  all  of  us  can  think 
of  many  cases,  yea,  they  are  innumerable,  where 
the  certificate  of  election  is  held  to  be  not  only 
prima  facie,  but  conclusive  evidence  of  title  so 
far  as  holding  the  seat  is  concerned. 

"  Who  does  not  remember  that  the  Senator  from 
Florida,  (Mr.  Mallory,)  came  here  and  presented 
his  credentials  or  certificate  of  election  from  the 
Legislature  of  Florida,  and  asked  to  be  permitted 
to  take  his  seat  on  this  floor,  and  that  that  seat  was 
contested?  What  was  done?  Does  not  every 
Senator  know  that  the  certificate  of  election  was 
held  to  be  valid  ?  And  that  Mr.  Mallory  was  per- 
mitted to  occupy  a  seat,  although  that  seat  was 
contested,  and  contested  for  six  months  before  a 
decision  was  made  ? 

"  There  again  I  illustrate  this  point  by  another 
case  which  occurred  upon  the  floor  of  the  Senate 
in  relation  to  the  claim  of  the  distinguished  Sena- 
tor from  Illinois,  Mr.  Shields.  Who  will  not 
remember  that  when  he  came  here  bearing  the 
broad  seal  of  the  State  of  Illinois,  and  asking  a 
seat  on  this  floor,  a  Senator  rose  and  asked  that 
his  credentials  should  be  referred  to  a  committee 
for  examination,  and  who  will  fail  to  remember 
with  pleasure,  as  I  do,  that  the  Senate  refused  to 
refer  them  to  a  committee,  and  granted  him  a  seat 
on  this  floor.  *  «  *  But,  sir,  go  further  back. 
Here  is  the  contested  election  of  Potter  vs.  Rob- 
bins.    Here  were  two  gentlemen  standing  before 


the  Senate  of  the  United  States,  each  claiming  to 
be  a  Senator  from  the  State  of  Rhode  Island,  and 
each  holding  a  commission  from  the  Legislatiure  of 
that  State.  That  is  a  stronger  case,  if  possible, 
than  any  which  I  have  presented.  Here  are  two 
gentlemen  coming  before  the  Senate,  each  bearing 
a  certificate  of  election  from  the  Legislature  of  the 
State  to  which  they  belong,  and  each  claiming  to 
be  a  Senator  from  the  State  of  Rhode  Island. 
What  was  the  decision  of  the  Senate  in  that  case  ? 
It  seems  to  my  mind  perfectly  clear,  that  the  de- 
cision of  the  Senate  in  that  case  is  conclusive,  if 
any  decision  whatever  can  be  conclusive  as  a  prec- 
edent in  this  body.  It  was  decided,  after  debate, 
that  Mr.  Robbins  was  entitled  to  be  sworn  in  and 
take  his  seat  in  the  first  instance,  leaving  his  elec- 
tion to  be  determined  by  the  investigation  of  a 
committee,  and  he  was  ultimately  confirmed  in 
his  seat  in  the  Senate. 

"Mr.  Robbins  came  here  and  presented  his  cre- 
dentials, and  afterwards  another  gentleman  came 
and  presented  his  credentials,  and  the  Senate 
instead  of  referring  them  to  a  committee,  asserted 
that  Bobbin's  claim  was  good,  and  permitted  him 
to  take  his  seat,  and  then  the  contest  was  referred 
to  a  committee  and  adjudicated. 

"There  is  still  another  case.  On  the  fourth  of 
March,  1801,  Uriah  Tracy,  of  Connecticut,  having 
presented  his  credentials  under  an  appointment 
by  the  Governor,  and  the  seal  of  the  State,  an 
exception  was  taken  to  his  credentials,  and  debate 
ensued  thereon,  but  on  the  motion  that  he  be 
permitted  to  take  the  oath  required  by  the  Consti- 
tution, it  was  decided  in  the  affirmative.  This  was 
a  question  with  regard  to  the  validity  of  the  cre- 
dentials, but  still  the  claim  to  a  seat  was  taken  in 
advance  of  the  adjudication  of  the  question.  I 
repeat,  that  so  far  as  I  have  been  enabled  to  exam- 
ine this  question,  I  fand  but  one  solitary  case  where 
a  member  who  has  come  here  with  the  regular  cre- 
dentials of  election,  has  been  refused  permission 
to  take  his  seat." 

Mr.  Mangum  said : 

"Sir,  I  had  hardly  expected  to  lire  to  see  us  re- 
enact  the  scenes  of  the  New  Jersey  case,  which 
happened  some  years  ago  in  the  House  of  Repre» 
sentatives,  which  was  burned  with  a  brand  that 
was  heated  to  a  white  heat  by  the  public  reproba- 
tion of  the  whole  United  States — by  men  of  all 
parties." 

Now  Mr.  President,  at  the  very  time  this 
matter  was  under  discussion  in  the  Senate  of 
the  United  States,  Mr.  Shields  was  a  member 
of  that  body,  and  Ex-Governor  Gobmas  was 
a  member  of  the  House  of  Representatives, 
and  the  President  of  the  Convention  which 
sits  in  the  other  end  of  this  Capitol,  was  the 
Delegate  in  Congress  from  the  Territory  of 
Minnesota.  This  principle,  then,  was  re-as- 
serted and  not  controverted  in  the  very  pres- 


118 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Monday,  July  27. 


ence  of  those  men — the  present  leaders  of 
Democratic  Party  in  this  Territory.  They 
had  personal  knowledge  of  this  principle  and 
had  heard  it  reiterated  over  and  over  again ; 
and  yet,  sir,  one  of  those  very  leaders  has 
the  hardihood  to  come  into  this  building  and 
assert  that  the  exception  which  was  presented 
in  the  New  Jersey  Case,  was  the  rule  itself, 
and  has  acted  accordingly,  and  the  other 
leaders  have  acted  with  him. 

Again,  sir,  questions  of  the  same  kind  have 
arisen  in  the  Territory  of  Minnesota.  I 
remember  the  cases  of  Tillotson  and  Han- 
son, and  Taylor,  and  Ludden,  and  McLeod, 
who  presented  their  certificates  of  election  to 
the  Territorial  Legislature,  and  I  remember, 
too,  that  Messrs.  Muebay,  Setzer,  Rolette, 
Flandbau,  Bailly,  Nobris  and  Stubgis, 
[Mr.  KiNGSBUBY  was  a  contestant]  now  mem- 
bers of  the  Convention  in  the  other  Hall  were 
members  of  that  Legislature,  and  that  some 
of  them  took  the  ground  that  the  member 
presenting  a  certificate  iiresented  prima  facie 
evidence  that  he  was  entitled  to  a  seat,  and 
that  he  must  have  his  seat  in  the  first  instance, 
and  if  there  were  others  who  w  ishcd  to  con- 
test that  seat,  his  claim  must  be  referred  to  a 
committee.  Those  gentlemen,  then,  were  cog- 
nizant of  this  rule,  and  acted  in  accordance 
with  it.  They  know  that  the  Republicans 
did  not  insist  upon  any  thing  but.  what  was 
usual  and  parliamentary,  when  they  insisted 
that  every  person  who  presented  a  certificate 
from  the  proper  officers  within  the  limits  of 
the  proposed  State  was  entitled  to  a  seat  in 
this  Convention  in  the  first  instance. 

I  remark  here  that  I  do  not  propose  to 
enter  into  the  merits  of  the  question  whether 
certain  members  who  presented  their  certifi- 
cates as  prima  facie  evidence,  were  really  en- 
titled to  their  scats  in  this  Convention  or  not, 
in  case  a  contest  was  made.  We  had  noth- 
ing to  do  with  that  question,  as  a  body,  at 
that  time,  nor  have  we  now  until  a  contest- 
ant comes.  It  would  have  been  an  insult  to 
them  to  have  refused  to  receive  their  certifi- 
cates and  admit  them  as  members  of  this 
body,  and  an  insult  to  the  officers  who  gave 
them  their  certificates.  Nor  is  it  our  busi- 
ness to  go  into  that  matter  voluntarily  our- 
selves. "Who  is  to  blame  if  any  one  occupies 
a  seat  in  this  Convention  who  is  not  entitled 
to  it  ?    Not  the  members  of  this  Convention. 


Has  the  matter  ever  been  brought  before 
them  in  a  tangible  and  legal  shape  ?  Not  by 
any  means.  Who  then  is  in  fault?  Those 
who  supplise  they  really  had  rights  to  seats 
here,  and  have  not  claimed  them,  and  those 
who  sustain  them  in  their  course,  if  anybody. 

The  second  excuse  which  the  leaders  of 
that  party  make  for  their  course  is,  that  the 
Republicans  insisted  that  the  Clerk  or  Clerks 
of  the  board  of  County  Commissioners  was 
the  only  legal  source  from  whence  the  prima 
facie  evidence  could  come. 

Here  I  propose  to  read  that  section  of  the 
Enabling  Act  which  refers  to  the  manner  of 
conducting  the  election  of  Delegates  to  this 
Convention.     It  is  as  follows. 

Sec.  3.  And  be  it  further  enacted,  That  on  the 
first  Monday  in  June  next,  the  legal  voters  in  each 
representative  district,  then  existing  within  the 
limits  of  the  proposed  State,  are  hereby  author- 
ized to  elect  two  delegates  for  each  representative 
to  which  said  district  may  be  entitled  according  to 
the  apportionment  for  representatives  to  the  Ter- 
ritorial Legislature,  which  election  for  delegates 
shall  be  held  and  conducted,  and  returns  made, 
in  all  respects  in  conformity  with  the  laws  of  said 
Territory  regulati.ig  the  election  of  representa- 
tives ;  and  the  delegates  so  elected  shall  assemble 
at  the  Capital  of  said  Territory,  on  the  second 
Monday  in  July  next,  and  first  determine  by  a 
a  vote,  whether  it  is  the  wish  of  the  people  of  the 
proposed  State  to  be  admitted  into  the  Union  at 
that  time ;  and  if  so,  shall  proceed  to  form  a  Con- 
stitution, and  take  all  necessary  steps  for  the 
establishment  of  a  State  Government,  in  conform- 
ity with  the  Federal  Constitution,  subject  to  the 
approval  and  ratification  of  the  people  of  the  pro- 
posed State. 

Now,  sir,  what  is  the  law  ?  I  refer  to  sec- 
tion 33,  chapter  five  of  the  Revised  Statutes, 
and  find  the  following: 

Sec.  33.  On  the  twentieth  day  after  the  close  of 
any  election,  or  sooner,  if  all  the  returns  be 
received,  the  clerk  of  the  board  of  County  Com- 
missioners, taking  to  his  assistance  two  justices  of 
the  peace  of  the  county,  shall  proceed  to  open  said 
returns  and  make  abstracts  of  the  votes  in  the  fol- 
lowing manner : 

The  abstract  of  the  votes  for  Delegate  to  Con- 
gress shall  be  on  one  sheet ;  the  abstract  of  votes 
for  members  of  the  Legislative  Assembly  shall  be 
on  one  sheet ;  and  the  abstract  of  votes  for  county 
and  precinct  oflicers  shall  be  on  another  sheet ; 
and  it  shall  be  the  duty  of  said  clerk  of  County 
Commissioners  immediately  to  make  out  a  certifi- 
cate of  election  to  each  of  the  persons  having  th« 
highest  number  of  votes  for  members  of  the  Le- 
gislative Assembly.       «       »       *       •       ^nd 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Moxdat,  Jclt  27. 


119 


to  deliver  said  certificate  to  the  person  entitled 
to  it. 

Also  33,  chapter  five: 

When  two  or  more  counties  are  united  in  one 
t:ouncil  or  representative  district,  the  clerk  of  the 
board  of  County  Commissioners  of  the  county  last 
«stablished,  shall  within  twenty  days  after  the  day 
of  election  attend  at  the  office  of  the  clerk  of  the 
board  of  county  commissioners,  of  the  senior  coun- 
ty and  in  coi^unction  with  the  clerk  or  the  clerks  of 
the  senior  county  or  counties,  shall  compare  the 
votes  given  in  the  several  counties  composing  such 
council  or  representative  district,  and  said  clerks 
shall  immediately  make  out  a  certificate  of  the 
person  or  persons  having  the  highest  number  of 
votes  in  such  counties  *  *  *  * 
which  certified  shall  be  delivered  to  the  person 
entitled  to  it.        *****       # 

It  is  made  the  duty  then,  of  the  clerk  or 
clerks  of  the  board  of  County  Commission- 
ers, to  give  the  certificate,  and  that  certificate 
when  presented,  is  prima  facie  evidence  of 
election,  and  under  it  the  member  is  entitled 
to  have  and  hold  his  seat  until  it  is  proven, 
by  actual  evidence,  that  there  was  fraud  or 
illegal  voting,  or  something  of  that  kind  in 
his  election,  back  of  the  certificate,  sufficient 
to  give  the  seat  to  the  contestant.  The 
returns,  it  is  true,  are  made  to  the  Secretary 
of  the  Territory,  but  he  does  not  give  certifi- 
cates. 

Section  35  of  the  same  act  is  as  follows : 

Sec.  35.  The  clerk  of  the  board  of  Commis- 
sioners immediately  after  making  the  abstracts  of 
the  votes  given  in  his  county  shall  make  a  copy  of 
eacb  of  said  abstracts  and  transmit  it  by  mail  to 
the  Secretary  of  the  Territory  who  with  the  Mar- 
shal of  the  Territory  or  his  deputy  in  presence  of 
the  Governor,  shall  proceed  within  fifty  days  after 
the  election,  and  sooner  if  all  the  returns  be 
received,  to  canvass  the  votes  given  for  delegate  to 
Congress. 

That  is  the  exception.  The  Secretary  of 
the  Territory  has  a  part  in  the  canvassing  the 
votes  for  the  delegate  to  Congress,  but  for  no 
other  officers,  and  no  other  certificate  can 
come  from  him  or  from  the  Governor,  as 
prima  facie  evidence. 

The  third  reason  the  leading  Democrats 
give  for  leaving  this  Convention,  was  because 
the  Republicans  insisted  that  a  member  of 
the  Convention  who  had  been  requested  in 
writing,  by  a  majority  of  all  the  members  elect, 
and  two-thirds  of  those  present,  to  call  the 
Convention  to  order,  was  the  proper  person, 
instead  of  an  officious  and  intermeddling  fed- 


eral office  holder — the  Secretary  of  the  Terri- 
tory— and  that  the  general  rule  was  that 
when  no  person  was  directly  authorized  by 
law  to  call  deliberative  bodies  to  order,  that 
some  member  of  the  body  perform  that  duty. 

Now,  sir,  before  I  proceed  to  the  legal 
part  of  the  question,  I  ask  the  simple  ques- 
tion whether  it  is  not  right  that  a  body  of 
this  character,  assembled  to  frame  a  State 
Constitution,  should  be  entirely  free  firom  all 
executive  interference,  or  the  interference  of 
any  federal  office  holder  ?  Is  it  not  our  right 
to  assemble  here  to  deliberate  without  any 
such  interference  ?  Does  it  not,  upon  its  face, 
present  an  appearance  of  right  ?  Is  it  not 
right  in  fact  ?     Certainly  it  is. 

Now,  as  it  has  been  disputed  by  a  gentle- 
man high  in  authority  in  the  other  party,  that 
no  written  request  was  made  to  Mr.  North 
to  call  this  Convention  to  order.  I  ask  the 
Clerk  to  read  from  the  journal  the  written 
request  as  entered  thereon  by  the  order  of 
the  Convention. 

The  Clerk  then  read  the  request  as  fol- 
lows : 

We,  the  undersigned,  members  elect  to  the  Con- 
stitutional Convention  of  Minnesota,  hereby  re- 
quest J.  W.  North  to  call  said  Convention  to  order 
at  as  early  an  hour  on  Monday,  the  13th  of  Julj 
inst.,  as  the  majority  of  the  Convention  shall  be 
found  in  attendence. 

(Signed) 

St,  A.  D.  Balcombe,  Thos.  Foster,  H.  "W.  Holley, 
Thos.  "Wilson,  L.  K.  Stannard,  W.  H.  C.  Folsom, 
N.  P.  Colburn,  A.  B.  Vaughn,  Thos.  J.  Galbraith, 
W.  Hayden,  W.  F.  Russell,  T.  D.  Smith,  N.  B. 
Bobbins,  B.  H.  Baldwin,  E.  N.  Bates,  J.  H.  Mur- 
phy, S.  W.  Putnam,  P.  A.  Cederstam,  Chas.  F. 
Lowe,  Thos.  Winell,  R.  S.  Barthololomew,  F.  Ayer, 
Geo.  Watson,  Frank  Mantor,  Chas.  H.  Coe,  J.  A. 
Anderson,  Chas.  G.  Gerrish,  H.  A.  Billings,  S. 
Harding,  A.  Coombs.  H.  Eschlie,  J.  Cleghorn, 
Thos.  BoUes,  J.  "W.  North,  W.  J.  Duley,  J.  A. 
Kemp,  J.  A.  McCann,  C.  W.  Thompson,  Chas, 
McClure,  Aaron  G.  Hudson,  Lewis,  McKune,  Amos 
Coggswell,  0.  F.  Perkins,  D.  A.  Secombe,  L.  C. 
Walker,  B.  E.  Messer,  Cyrus  Aldrich,  David  Mor- 
gan, B.  Lyle,  D.  L.  King,  Joseph  Peckham,  D.  M. 
Hall,  E.  Page  Davis,  A.  H.  Butler,  Chas.  Hanson, 
D.  D.  Dickerson. 

Dated  July  11th,  1S57. 

Mr.  B  continued: — Now  I  will  refer  to 
authorities  to  show  that  our  proceedings  were 
actually  in  accordance  with  parliamentary 
usage.  In  the  first  place  I  read  from  Cush- 
ing's  Manuel,  page  10,  sec.  8 : 


120 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Monday,  Jcly  27. 


"The  most  usual  and  convenient  mode  of  organ- 
izing a  deliberative  assembly  is  the  following : — 
The  members  being  assembled  together  in  the 
place,  and  at  the  time  appointed  for  thcii'  meeting, 
one  of  them  addressing  himself  to  the  others,  re- 
quests them  to  come  to  order ;  the  members  there- 
upon seating  themselves  and  giving  their  attention 
to  him,  he  suggests  the  propriety  and  necessity  of 
their  being  organized  before  proceeding  to  busi- 
ness, and  requests  the  members  to  nominate  some 
person  to  act  as  Chairman  of  the  meeting,"  &c. 

Now  I  propose  to  show  that  that  course 
has  been  almost,  if  not  quite,  universally  fol- 
lowed, and  that  this  rule  universally  prevails 
that  wherever  a  person  has  been  pointed  out 
by  law  as  a  person  to  call  a  deliberative 
body  to  order,  he  in  the  first  instance  has  the 
roll  of  members  called,  to  ascertain  who  are 
members  and  who  are  present;  and  that 
where  the  law  has  not  pointed  out  any  such 
person,  any  member  of  the  deliberative  body, 
whatever  its  character  may  be,  has  a  right  to 
call  the  body  to  order.  Where  such  person 
is  pointed  out  by  law,  he  acts  as  temporary 
Chairman.  There  may  be  exceptions,  in  prac- 
tice, to  the  rule  I  have  laid  down,  as  there 
are  exceptions  to  all  other  rules,  but  as  in 
other  cases,  exceptions  prove  the  rule.  In 
the  Massachusetts  Constitutional  Convention 
held  in  1853,  the  Hon.  Robert  Raxtoul,  of 
Beverly,  called  the  Convention  to  order.  He 
was  a  member  of  the  body,  and  it  was  one 
of  those  instances  in  which  the  law  creating 
the  Convention  did  not  prescribe  who  should 
call  the  Convention  to  order.  In  Ohio  the 
same  course  was  pursued  in  its  Constitutional 
Convention  of  1850.  Mr.  Sawyer,  member 
from  Allen  County,  moved  that  Mr.  Larwill 
be  called  to  the  Chair. — Carried.  In  Illinois 
no  provision  was  made  for  calling  the  Conven- 
tion to  order,  and  it  was  called  to  order  by 
Francis  C.  Sherman,  of  Cook  County,  upon 
whose  motion  Mr.  Zadok  Casey  was  ap- 
pointed President  of  the  Convention  pro  tern. 
In  Iowa  there  was  no  provision  of  law  in  that 
respect,  and  the  Convention  was  called  to  or- 
der by  James  Grant,  member  elect  from 
Scott  County,  upon  whose  motion  Mr.  Wm. 
Thompson  was  appointed  Secretary,  pro  tern. 
In  California,  no  provision  was  made  by  law, 
and  the  Convention  was  called  to  order  by 
Mr.  Halleck,  member  from  Monterey,  and 
Mr.  Dimmick  was  appointed  Chairman,  pro 
tern.  And  here  I  wish  to  remark  upon  the 
difference  in  the  modesty  between  the  Secre- 


tary of  the  Territory  of  California  and  our 
Secretary.  Mr.  Halleck  was  Secretary  of 
Cahfomia,  and  was  also  elected  a  member  of 
the  Constitutional  Convention.  His  seat  was 
not  in  controversy  ;  but,  sir,  instead  of  arro- 
gating to  himself  the  authority  of  calling  the 
Convention  to  order,  by  virtue  of  his  official 
position.,  he  did  so  as  a  simple  member  of  the 
body,  and  in  his  capacity  as  such?  Note  still 
further  his  modesty,  in  contrast.  On  calling 
the  roll  on  the  first  day,  it  was  ascertained 
that  there  was  not  a  quonmi  present,  and  an 
adjournment  took  place  until  the  next  Mon- 
day. On  Monday,  the  Chairman  announced 
that  he  had  received  a  communication  from 
the  Governor,  through  the  Secretary  of  State. 
That  communication  showed  who  were  mem- 
bers of  the  Convention,  according  to  the  ideas 
of  the  Governor.  The  returns  were  to  be 
made  to  the  Secretary  and  Governor,  from 
whom  the  certificates  were  to  come  ;  and  had 
it  not  been  for  the  difference  between  that 
Secretary  and  our  Secretary,  he  could  have 
presented  himself  at  the  desk  and  called  the 
roll  of  members,  because  he  was  the  only 
man  who  had  that  roll,  and  the  only  man  who 
was  oflicially  entitled  to  it,  and  who  could 
give  certificates  of  election./ 

I  have  examined  the  journals  of  the  Wis- 
consin Conventions  to  frame  a  Constitution, 
and  I  find  that  in  both  of  them  a  member  of 
the  body  called  them  to  order.  There  are 
other  instances  which  I  might  cite,  but  I  havo 
referred  to  sufficient  to  establish  the  general 
rule.  I  have  examined  the  joiu-nals  of  every 
Convention  I  could  get  hold  of,  and  I  have 
not  been  able  to  find  a  single  exception  to  the 
rule  I  have  laid  down.  Not  only  the  rule, 
but  the  justness  of  that  mode  of  proceedure, 
has  always  been  acknowledged.  And  here  I 
take  occasion  to  say,  that  one  of  the  members 
sitting  in  the  other  Hall,  (Mr.  IIolc(>mbe,) 
was  a  member  of  the  Wisconsin  Convention, 
and  was  personally  cognizant  of  the  proper 
mode  of  proceedure,  and  the  rule. 

I  now  come  to  precedents  nearer  home. 
As  a  general  rule  the  Secretary  of  the  last 
Senate,  the  Clerk  of  the  last  House,  call  the 
succeeding  bodies  to  order  in  most  of  the 
States.  That  is  generally  regulated  by  law, 
and  it  is  so  in  this  Territory.  Our  statute 
provides  that  the  Secretary  of  the  last  Council, 
and  the  Clerk  of  the  last  House,  are  to  call 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Monday,  July  27. 


121 


the  succeeding  Council  and  House  to  order, 
But  an  instance  occurred  in  1853,  when  the 
Clerk  of  the  House  was  not  present  at  the 
meeting  of  the  follo\^-ing  House,  and  I  find 
in  the  journal  of  that  body,  that  "  At  twelve 
"o'clock,  M.,  on  Monday  the  fifth  of  Janu- 
"ary,  designated  by  law  for  the  Legislature  to 
"  assemble,  the  Chief  Clerk  of  the  House  not 
"  being  in  attendance,  on  motion  of  Mr.  A.  E. 
*'  Ames,  Mr.  Joseph  R.  Bkowx,  was  appoin- 
"  ted  to  occupy  the  Clerk's  desk."  Here  was 
an  instance  in  which  Mr.  A.  E.  Ames,  a 
gentleman  who  holds  a  seat  in  the  bogus 
Convention  in  the  other  end  of  this  Capitol, 
followed  and  acknowledged  the  binding  force 
of  the  universal  rule  which  I  have  declared 
that  where  no  person  is  appointed  by  law. 
to  call  a  deliberative  body  to  order,  or  if  there 
be  such  a  person^and  he  is  absent,  the  proper 
and  usual  mode  is  for  some  member  of  the 
body  to  caU  it  to  order.  Joseph  R.  Brown, 
also  a  member  of  that  other  body,  was 
appointed  Clerk  under  that  rule,  and  Messrs. 
MrRKAY,  Rolette,  and  others  in  that  Con- 
vention were  members  of  that  House,  and 
knew  of  that  precedent,  and  acknowledged  it 
by  their  action. 

But  I  have  referred  to  a  sufficient  nxmiber 
of  precedents  to  show  the  universaUty  of  the 
rule,  and  I  will  therefore  not  detain  the  Con- 
vention longer  with  this  point,  though  I  could 
cite  a  hundred  more  precedents  were  it  neces- 
sary to  do  so.  The  propriety  of  such  a  rule 
is  e\'ident  to  every  unbiased  mind. 

And  now,  not  so  much  for  the  purpose  of 
enlightening  the  members,  as  to  the  views  of 
the  editor  of  a  certain  paper  in  this  city,  as 
for  the  purpose  of  spreading  the  views  of  that 
editor  upon  the  journal  of  debates  of  this 
Convention,  I  will  read  an  editorial  article 
written  by  an  editor  of  a  neutral  paper, 
supposed  to  be  entirely  unbiased  on  this 
question.  The  St.  Paul  Advertiser,  of  July 
twenty -fifth,  a  commercial  paper,  speaking  the 
sentiments  of  a  class  who  pay  little  attention 
to  th.e  mere  political  aspects  of  this  matter, 
but  who  are  engaged  more  particularly  with 
the  pecuniary  and  commercial  interests  of  the 
country,  and  are  disposed  to  discountenance 
any  movement  which  is  calculated  to  retard 
our  progress.     It  is  as  follows : 

"The  doctrine  now  for  the  first  time  stated, 
that  the  Secretary  of  the  Territory  is  the  only 
16 


person  competent  to  call  a  Constitutional  Conven- 
tion to  order,  is  too  ridiculous  to  merit  one  mo- 
ment's consideration.  This,  we  venture  to  say,  is 
the  most  extraordinary  proposition  that  even  the 
exigencies  of  party  logic  ever  gave  rise  to.  That 
the  Secretary  may  exercise  this  privilege,  is  itself 
the  very  doubtful  proposition,  which  nothing  but 
an  array  of  precedents,  which  do  not  exist,  could 
warrant  in  this  case,  and  nothing  less  than  univer- 
sality of  precedent,  when  there  is,  perhaps,  a 
single  instance  on  record,  could  establish  it  as  a, 
rule.  It  is,  on  the  other  hand,  the  indubitable  and 
self-evident  proposition  that  any  member  of  an 
inchoate,  deliberative  body  may  call  it  to  order  and 
put  the  question  preliminary  to  its  organization. 
It  does  not  depend  on  the  occasional  or  exceptional 
precedent.  But  it  is  the  r>TVERSAL  rule,  and  is 
inherent  in  the  nature,  and  results  from  the  neces- 
sity of  the  case.  If  any  one,  therefore,  doubts 
that  Mr.  Chase,  acting  by  virtue  of  his  Secretary- 
ship, was  competent  to  call  the  Convention  to 
order,  no  one  can  doubt  that  Mr.  Xoeth,  a  member 
of  the  Convention  was  fully  competent  to  perform 
that  office.  We  take  it  for  granted  that  Mr.  Chask 
was  a  competent  person  to  do  this,  but  that  Mr. 
XoRTH  was  equally  so.  Both  these  gentlemen  acting 
concurrently,  put  questions  in  the  usual  parliament- 
ary form,  to  an  assemblage  of  persons  within  the 
bar  of  the  Convention,  one  was  for  an  adjournment, 
the  other  for  an  organization.  Both  motions  were 
declared  carried.  We  have  here,  in  one  assembly 
two  separate  and  distinct  proceedings  at  the  same 
time.  If  we  could  now  ascertain  that  a  majority 
of  the  assembly  participated  in  the  proceedings 
initiated  by  Mr.  Chase,  and  acted  upon  the  motion 
put  by  him,  we  are  not  sure  that  any  of  the  conse- 
quences would  follow  which  the  Pioneer  deduces 
from  its  assertion  of  that  fact.  But  it  is  impossi- 
ble to  ascertain  any  such  thing,  and  it  is,  to  say  the 
least,  highly  improbable  that  such  was  the  case. 
First,  because  a  majority  had  consented  to  recog- 
nize Mr.  North  beforehand,  and  had  requested 
him  in  writing  to  call  the  meeting  to  order. 
Second.  Because  the  majority  of  Republicans  had 
every  motive  for  ignoring  the  proceedings  of  Mr. 
Chase.  Third.  They  were  acting  at  the  same 
time  upon  a  motion  of  their  own,  agreed  upon 
beforehand,  and  consented  to  beforehand  unani- 
mously. 

"  But  it  must  have  struck  every  one  that  all 
this  balderdash  about  the  competency  of  this  or 
that  oflScer  has  nothing  to  do  with  the  question. 
It  is  not  of  the  least  consequence  who  puts  the 
questions  preliminary  to  organization,  or  how  they 
are  put.  It  is  only  necessary  that  by  some  means 
or  other  the  will  of  the  majority  be  ascertained. 
The  mode  of  procedure  does  not  enter  into  the 
essence  of  the  act.  The  will  of  the  majority,  how- 
ever expressed,  is  the  act  of  all  the  parties  partici- 
pating in  the  proceeding.  The  single  circumstance 
that  but  forty -five  Democrats  withdiew  from  the 
Hall  in  accordance  with  the  resolution  to  adjourn 


122 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Mond at,  July  ZT- 


while  fifty-six  Republicans  remained,  and  orga- 
nized in  accordance  with  the  motion  so  to  do,  but 
concurrently  with  the  other,  would  seem  to  express 
in  the  clearest  and  most  emphatic  manner  possible 
the  will  of  the  majority  in  this  case.  It  is  doubtful 
if  a  majority  of  those  present  recognized  the 
authority  of  Mr.  Chase.  It  is  beyond  dispute  that 
a  majority  recognized  the  authority  of  Mr.  NoExn. 
There  is  no  evidence  at  ail  of  the  one,  and  there  is 
the  most  absolute  evidence  of  the  other. 

"  On  the  next  day,  the  Democrats,  now  increased 
to  forty-six,  met  pursuant  to  a(^ournment,  as  the 
CONSTITUTIONAL  CONVENTION — as  an  adjoumed  meet- 
ing of  the  Convention,  and  came  in  a  body 
to  the  Hall  occupied  by  a  minority  of  the  members 
who  had  already  organized  as  the  Convention,  and 
demanded  the  surrender  of  the  Hall  to  them  as 
the  Convention.  Being  refused,  they  adjourned 
again  to  the  Council  Chamber,  and  though  a  minor- 
ity, and  therefore  not  a  quorum,  organized  as  the 
Convention. 

"We  are  the  advocates  of  no  party.  We  have 
too  high  a  respect  for  the  prominent  members  of 
the  recusant  delegation,  to  believe  that  they  would 
lend  themselves  without  good  reasons,  to  the  am- 
bitious schemes  of  demagogues  for  a  party  domi- 
nation, obtained  by  wicked  and  unjust  means ;  but 
we  confess  we  are  at  a  loss  to  understand  how, 
even  admitting  for  the  moment,  that  the  adjourn- 
ment upon  which  their  action  was  predicated,  was 
the  sense  of  the  meeting  at  the  Capitol  on  Monday 
noon.  We  are  at  a  loss  to  understand  how  i 
could  be  considered  in  any  sense  as  the  adjourn- 
ment of  the  Convention.  There  is  no  evidence 
that  of  all  those  who  participated  in  the  proceed- 
ing, any  one  was  a  member  of  the  Convention.  It 
is  known  that  several  persons  were  present  wlio 
were  not  members.  There  had  been  no  organiza- 
tion, no  credentials  had  been  presented.  The 
Convention  did  not  exist  as  a  deliberative  or  par- 
liamentary body  when  that  meeting  adjourned,  if 
it  were  an  adjournment.  It  can  only  be  consid- 
ered in  its  most  favorable  light,  as  the  act  of  an 
informal  and  tumultuous  assemblage  of  mou, 
speaking  without  organization,  and  therefore  with- 
out authority.  And  there  is  not  the  least  doubt 
that  if  every  member  in  the  Hall  had  voted  on  the 
motion  to  adjourn,  prior  to  organization,  that  a 
majority  of  all  the  members  of  the  Convention, 
this  being  a  quorum,  would  still,  as  such  quorum, 
be  competent  to  remain  and  organize." 

Again,  it  is  objected  that  a  majority  of  all 
the  members  elect  met  and  organized  in  the 
usual  and  parliamentary  manner,  and  pro- 
ceeded to  the  business  for  which  they  were 
elected,  without  taking  notice  of  the  factious 
and  discourteous  conduct  of  the  minority  or 
its  quibbles. 

A  great  deal  has  been  said  about  a  motion 
made  by  an  individual — no  one  knew  whether 
by  a  member  of  the  Convention  or  not — be- 


cause the  journal  of  the  proceedings  of  that 
day's  Convention,  which  they  will  present  to 
you,  does  not  show  who  were  members  of  the 
Convention  that  day,  and  does  not  even  show 
that  any  members  were  present,  because  a 
list  of  the  members  was  never  called  by  that 
individual  who  professed  to  be  Chairman 
at  that  time.  Had  he  followed  the  uni' 
versal  rule,  he  would  have  called  the  list  that 
day.  But  a  motion  was  made  to  adjourn  to 
twelve  o'clock  next  day.  It  is  asserted  that 
that  motion  took  precedence  of  all  otherSv 
Now  granting  for  the  sake  of  the  argument 
— nothing  more — that  the  official  who  pre- 
tended to  be  the  presiding  officer  at  that  time, 
was  the  presiding  officer  in  fact.  I  deny  that 
a  motion  to  adjourn  to  a  fixed  time  was  % 
privileged  motion,  and  I  charge  that  those 
who  pretend  it  is,  know  better. 

On  page  seventy-nine  of  Cushing's  Manuel 
I  find  the  following : 

"A  motion  to  adjourn  takes  the  place  of  all 
other  questions  whatsoever;  for  otherwise  the 
assembly  might  be  kept  sitting  against  its  will,  and 
for  an  indefinite  time ;  but  in  order  to  entitle  this 
motion  to  precedence  it  must  be  simply  to  adjourn 
without  the  addition  of  any  particular  day  or  time, 
and  as  the  object  of  the  motion,  when  made  in  the 
midst  of  some  other  proceeding,  and  with  a  view 
to  supercede  a  question  already  proposed,  as  simply 
to  breaking  up  the  sitting,  it  does  not  admit  of  any 
amendments  by  the  addition  of  a  particular  day, 
or  in  any  other  manner,  though  if  a  motion  to 
adjourn  is  made,  when  no  other  business  is  before 
the  assembly,  it  may  be  amended  like  other  ques- 
tions." 

Now,  sir,  what  was  the  motion  made  by  a 
gentleman,  at  the  time  the  Secretary  presented 
himself  as  the  presiding  officer?  It  was  a 
motion  to  adjourn  to  a  certain  day  and  to  a 
certain  time.  Hence  tliat  motion  could  not 
be  a  privileged  motion,  and  was  not  in  order, 
as  the  motion  made  by  Mr.  NoiiTU  that  Mr. 
Galbkaitu  be  elected  President  pro  tempore 
was  previously  made.  But  supposing  it  was, 
I  contend  that  it  was  impossible  for  them  to 
adjourn  at  that  time.  There  was  no  Conven- 
tion to  adjourn — no  assembly  to  adjourn. 
They  were  simply  a  mass  of  individuals  with- 
out organization.  No  one  knows,  or  can 
know,  who  voted  for  or  against  the  motion — 
whether  they  were  members  having  a  right  to 
a  scat  in  the  Convention,  or  merely  citizens  of 
St.  Paul.  I  refer  again  to  Cdshino's  Manuel, 
page  166,  and  find — 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Monday,  Jlt-y  27. 


li?n 


"The  reason  why  amotion  to  adjourn,  moved  for 
the  purpose  of  superceding  or  suppressing  a  pend- 
ing question  is  not  susceptible  of  amendment,  is 
that  if  amended,  it  would  at  once  become  inadmis- 
sable  in  point  of  order,  on  the  ground  of  its  being 
introductorr  to  a  second  question,  having  no  priv- 
ilege, to  take  the  place  of  a  question  already  pend- 
ing, and  entitled  to  be  first  disposed  of." 

I  submit  the  testimony  of  an  imbiased 
man  as  to  the  condition  we  were  actually  in 
at  the  time  the  motion  was  made.  I  extract 
from  the  editorial  of  the  Advertiser^  July 
twenty-tifth : 

"Let  us  analyse  thereon  without  disputing  him. 
The  point  at  issue  is  this :  Was  the  motion  for 
adjournment  on  Jlonday  the  13th  inst.,  put  by  Mr. 
Chase,  in  the  Hall  of  the  Convention,  to  the  per- 
sons there  assembled  prior  to  organization,  and 
declared  carried  by  Mr.  Chase— .-was  this  adjourn- 
ment of  the  Convention  binding  as  the  act  of  the 
Convention  on  all  its  members?" 

"If  this  were  indeed  so,  then  it  is! beyond  dispute 
that  to  the  Democratic  delegates  in  session  at  the 
Council  Chamber,  rightfully  belongs  the  duty  of 
framing  a  Constitution  for  Minnesota." 

"The  act  of  the  Convention  ?  By  what  process 
had  the  persons  who  met  within  the  bar  of  the 
House  become  the  Convention  *  What,  and  who 
constituted  them  the  Convention  ?  We  had  sup- 
posed it  to  be  a  fundamental  law  of  th«  inception 
of  parliaments  that  assemblies  of  men  convened  to 
transact  the  business  of  parliamentary  bodies,  must 
first  become  a  parliamentary  body  before  they 
can  perform  the  acts  of  parFiamentary  bodies.  An 
adjournment  binding  upon  the  members  of  a  par- 
liamentary body,  as  such,  necessarily  implies  the 
existence  of  a  parliamentary  body.  An  adjourn- 
ment prior  to  organization  is  a  thing  impossible. 
There  can  be  no  adjournment,  because  there  is 
nothing  to  adjourn.  Will  Theron,  will  Mr.  Flax- 
DRAC,  will  the  Pioneer  explain  to  the  people  of 
Minnesota,  how  a  number  of  persons  congregated 
informally,  and  without  organization,  within  the 
bar  of  the  Convention,  could  adjourn  as  the  Con- 
vention, before  they  existed  as  a  Convention? 
Will  any  one  tell  us  how  such  an  act  could  be  the 
act  of  a  parliamentary  body,  obligatory  on  the 
members  thereof  as  such,  before  the  first  step  had 
been  taken  to  constitute  them  a  parliamentary 
body? 

"We  repeat  thatamotion  for  adjournment  at  that 
stage  of  proceedings  was  simply  absurd.  It  could 
only  be  regarded  in  its  most  favorable  light  as  an 
informal,  and  exceedingly  impertinent  and  foolish 
suggestion,  and  the  unanimous  concurrence  of  all 
present  in  it,  could  be  nothing  more  than  the  vol- 
untary dispersion  of  a  crowd.  We  are  sure  that 
we  are  right  in  saying,  that  if  the  motion  to  ad- 
journ had  met  the  unanimous  concurrence  of  every 
one,  the  proceedings  could  have  had  no  bitiding 
force,  except  as  tacit  agreement  between  individu- 


als, and  a  quorum  of  the  inchoate  convention 
might  have  reassembled  at  any  time  thereafter,  and 
proceeded  to  organize  without  reference  to  it.  The 
first  and  only  steps  which  the  unorganized  assem- 
blage of  individuals  claiming  to  be  members  elec- 
ted to  the  Convention,  was  capable  of  taking,  was 
the  one  step  neceesary  to  organization.  Xo  other 
could  come  within  its  powers  till  after  organiza- 
tion. Before  that,  it  might  disperse,  or  the  indi- 
viduals who  composed  the  meeting,  might,  in  their 
individual  capacity,  do  what  they  pleased,  but  it 
could  not  adjousn  as  a  parliamentary  body. 

"Throwing  aside  all  technical  tests,  and  reducing 
it  to  a  question  of  legal  right — what  was  the  sense 
of  a  majority  of  those  present  at  the  meeting  on 
Monday  noon  ?  What  was  the  sense  of  a  majority 
of  those  present  who  were  legally  and  rightfully 
entitled  to  their  seats?  There  were  fifty-five  Re- 
publicans at  least  with  credentials  in  their  pockets 
— if  six  were  bogus  there  would  remain  forty-nine 
in  favor  of  organization.  The  highest  number 
claimed  by  the  Democrats,  including  several  who 
had  not  credentials — was  forty -five." 

Now,  sir,  when  this  motion  to  adjourn  was 
made,  a  member  of  the  Convention  was  oc- 
cupying the  desk  by  the  authority  of  a  ma- 
jority of  all  the  members  elected,  and  by  a 
majority  of  two-thirds  of  the  members  pres- 
ent, and  that  member  made  the  motion  that 
Mr.  Galbbaith  be  appointed  temporary  Chair- 
man. "WhQe  he  was  putting  that  motion,  a 
gentleman  in  tlie  assembly  moved  to  adjourn 
until  a  certain  time.  As  I  have  shown  the 
motion  to  adjourn  to  a  certain  time  was  not  a 
privilegetl  motion,  but  was  out  of  order;  and 
not  only  was  it  out  of  order,  but  it  is  consid- 
ered by  the  rules,  to  have  been  a  breach  of 
order.  A  motion  to  adjourn  would  even  have 
been  out  of  order  then,  because  the  yeas  and 
nays  were  being  put ;  and  I  refer  to  Jeffer- 
son's Manuel  to  prove  that  position.  The 
motion  to  adjourn  to  a  certain  time  was  made, 
while  the  motion  that  Mr.  GALBRAirn  be 
temporary  Chairman  was  being  put,  and  even 
if  it  had  been  a  simple  motion  to  adjoinm 
without  specifying  the  time,  it  would  have 
been  out  of  order,  as  I  have  shown,  Jeffer- 
son's Manuel  says : 

"A  motion  to  adjourn  simply  takes  place  of  all 
others  ;  for  otherwise  a  House  might  be  kept  sit- 
ting against  its  will,  and  indefinitely.  Yet  the 
motion  cannot  be  received  after  another  question 
is  actually  put,  and  while  the  House  is  engaged  in 
voting." 

Now  was  not  the  .House  actually  engaged 
in  voting  when  the  motion  to  adjourn  to  a 
certain  time  and  place  was  made  ?    Then 


124 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Monday,  Jult  27. 


was  it  not  out  of  order  ?  Certainly  it  was 
— as  decided  by  the  best  authority  that  can 
be  produced.  Again,  Jefferson's  Manuel 
page  161 : 

"It  might  be  asked  whether  a  motion  for  adjourn- 
ment or  for  the  orders  of  the  day  cannot  be  made 
by  one  member  while  another  is  speaking.  It 
cannot." 

Was  there  not  at  the  time  a  gentleman  oc- 
cupying the  floor?  Was  not  Mr.  Noetu 
putting  the  question?  Undei-  three  rules, 
then,  a  motion  to  adjourn  to  a  certain  time 
and  place  at  that  time,  was  out  of  order. 

Again,  it  has  been  the  universal  rule  to 
ascertain  who  the  members  of  a  deliberative 
body  are,  before  a  motion  of  this  character  is 
made.  I  will  not  here  refer  to  precedents  in 
detail,  but  \\all  refer  to  the  journals  and  de- 
bates of  every  Constitutional  Convention,  and 
of  every  legislative  body.  They  will  show 
that  the  first  business  is  to  make  out  a  hst  of 
members.  That  there  may  have  been  excep- 
tions to  that  course,  I  will  not  deny ;  but  I 
have  no  such  exception  now  in  my  mind. 

It  has  generally  been  conceded  that  there 
is  no  deliberative  body,  to  act  upon  any  mo- 
tion, except  merely  a  motion  for  the  appoint- 
ment of  a  temporary  Chairman,  and  temporary 
Secretary,  until  after  the  roll  is  called,  and 
until  it  was  ascertained  who  were  actually 
members  of  the  body.     I  refer  to  the  jour- 
nals of  Wisconsin,  Massachusetts,  Ohio,  In- 
diana, New  York,  Iowa  and  all  others — cases 
where  they  were  called  to  order  both  by  the 
Secretary  of  State,  and  by  members  of  the 
body  itself.     I  here  refer  to  the  editorial  of 
the  St.  Paul  Advertmr  of  July  25.     I  have 
shown  you,  according  to  the  best  of   my 
ability,  at  the  present  time,  that  those  who 
present  themselves  to  any  deliberate  body 
with  certificates  of  election  from  the  proper 
authority,  are  first  entitled  to  seats — that 
Buch  certificates  are  held  to  be  prima  facie 
evidence  of  their  rights  to  seats, — to  which 
rule  there  have  been  but  few  exceptions.     I 
have  shown  you  that  the  prominent  leaders  of 
the  Democratic  party  of  this  Territory  are 
cognizant  of  that  law  governing  deliberative 
bodies,  and  have  acted  upon  it,  in  Congress, 
in  other  Conventions,  and  in  our  Territorial 
Legislature.     I  have  shown  you  that  some  of 
them  have  been  personally  engaged  in  enforc- 
ing that  general  and  universal   rule.     Gen. 


Shields,  a  prominent  member  of  that  party, 
was  himself  admitted,  under  objection  made, 
to  a  seat  in  the  United  States  Senate.  He 
presented  himself  with  2)rma  facie  evidence 
of  his  right  to  such  seat.  Mr.  Douglas 
moved  that  he  be  sworn  in  immediately ;  and 
he  would  not  allow  the  Senate  to  proceed  to 
business  unless  he  was  qualified,  contending 
that  Illinois  should  be  represented  in  that 
body,  and  that  immediately  ;  and  that  it  was 
right  and  just  that  he  should  be  admitted 
upon  prima  facie  evidence,  and  he  was  ad- 
mitted, though  afterwards  it  was  proven  that 
he  was  ineligible.  I  have  shown  you  that  very 
many  of  those  who  are  assembled  in  the  other 
end  of  the  Capitol,  are  men  of  large  experi- 
ence in  legislative  bodies,  and  have  themselves 
assisted  in  establishing  the  universal  rules  I 
have  brought  to  your  notice.  I  have  shown 
you  who  the  persons  are  in  this  Territory 
from  whom  that  2)nma  facie  evidence  should 
come,  and  from  whom  only  it  can  come. 

What  other  conclusion  then  can  any  indi- 
vidual come  to,  from  the  course  pursued  by 
the  Democratic  leaders,  than  that  it  is  their 
determination  to  prevent  the  immediate  ad- 
mission of  Minnesota  into  the  Union  as  a 
sovereign  and  independent  State  ?  Upon 
what  other  ground  can  you  explain  the  ac- 
tion of  those  men  in  acting  directly  contrary 
to  their  own  knowledge,  and  contrary  to  what 
is  right,  just,  usual,  parliamentary  and  cour- 
teous ?  Can  any  one  explain  the  matter  upon 
any  other  grounds  ? 

It  has  been  suggested  that  our  Representa- 
tive in  Congress  (Mr.  Rice)  procured  the 
passage  of  the  Enabhng  Act,  and  that  this 
was  an  indication  that  the  Democratic  party 
was  in  favor  of  our  immediate  admission  into 
the  Union.  True,  he  did  procure  the  passage 
of  that  Act,  and  in  doing  so  he  acted  in  obedi- 
ence to  the  voice  of  the  people  of  this  Terri- 
tory, and  undoubtedly  he  and  the  Democratic 
leaders  at  the  time  thought  it  would  be  an 
easy  matter  for  them  to  escort  the  new  State 
into  the  Union  under  Democratic  auspices. 
But  an  election  of  Delegates  to  this  Conven- 
tion has  since  taken  place,  and  it  resulted  in 
giving  the  Republicans  a  majority  of  Delegates 
in  the  Convention,  and  the  signs  of  the  times 
pretty  clearly  indicate  that  if  the  State  was 
to  go  into  the  Union  now,  the  Republicans 
would  have  the  pleasure  of  escorting  her  in. 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Moxdat,  July  21 


125 


That  has  become  evident  to  the  leaders  of 
that  party,  and  to  others.  Then  what  was 
the  next  coiu'se  for  them  to  pursue?  It 
was  to  prevent  the  State  of  Minnesota,  if 
possible,  from  going  into  the  Union.  It  was 
tirst,  to  break  up,  if  possible,  the  deliberations 
of  tlie  Constitutional  Convention  entirely; 
to  withdraw  from  the  Convention,  tliinking 
there  would  not  be  a  quorum  to  organize,  and 
thus  defeat  the  formation  of  a  Constitution. 
They  violated  all  parliamentary  law,  all 
usages,  and  all  courtesy,  yet  failed  in  their 
attempts.  What  next?  They  secede  from 
this  Convention,  and  enter  upon  the  formation 
of  another  Constitution,  in  order  to  confuse 
the  minds  of  the  people,  for  the  purpose, 
apparently,  of  carrying  the  impression  to  the 
people  that  they  are  in  favor  of  admission 
into  tlie  Union  as  a  State,  because  they  dare 
not  openly  violate  the  miiversal  feeling  and 
desire  of  the  people.  But  they  want  to  do  it 
in  an  indirect  manner,  and  the  question  now 
remains  to  be  solved  whether  the  people  of 
tlus  Tenitory  will  pennit  the  leaders  of  that 
party,  for  selfish  purposes,  to  defeat  the 
adoption  of  the  Constitution  which  we  may 
frame  here.  The  reasons  for  the  course  they 
pursue  are  obvious.  There  are  certain  indi- 
viduals in  that  party  who  are  very  ambitious, 
and  who  proclaim  it  abroad  that  they  must 
be  the  first  United  States  Senators  from  the 
State  of  Minnesota.  But  now  they  see  that 
prospect  rapidly  growing  dim  under  the 
advance  of  the  Republican  party,  and  they 
are  in  hopes  that  by  delajring  tlie  formation 
and  adoption  of  a  Constitution  a  few  years 
longer,  that  their  officials,  their  federal  office 
holders,  and  their  money,  may  bring  about  a 
diiFerent  state  of  tilings  from  what  exists  in 
the  Territory  now,  and  that  their  chance  for 
a  seat  in  the  United  States  Senate  from  the 
State  of  Minnesota,  will  be  much  better  than 
it  is  now. 

But  some  person  may  ask,  "  Is  it  possible 
"  that  the  leaders  of  that  party  can  change  so 
'suddenly  their  course  of  action?  They 
*'  have  heretofore  acted  in  favor  of  our  admis- 
"  sion  into  the  Union  immediately,  and  they 
"  have  expressed  themselves  in  favor  of  it." 
Now,  sir,  it  is  nothing  new  to  me  to  see  the 
leaders  of  that  party  change  their  course  of 
action,  or  their  views  upon  any  subject 
whatever.      I  myself   have  some    personal 


knowledge  in  reference  to  this  matter.  I  have 
seen  the  "  dictator  "  of  that  party  change  his 
mind  three  or  four  times  upon  one  question,  to 
accomplish  certain  selfish  ends  and  objects. 
And  I  will  here  state  that  that  same  individual 
came  to  me  some  few  da3-s  before  the  meeting 
of  this  Convention,  and  acknowledged  that 
they  were  in  the  minority ;  that  they  did  not 
expect  the  control  of  the  Convention ;  that 
we  had  two  majority,  even  if  they  had  what 
they  claimed — four  seats  from  St.  Anthony, 
and  the  delegates  from  Pembina ;  but  the 
delegates  from  Pembina  were  not  entitled  to 
seats,  according  to  his  o\vn  judgment,  though 
if  the  party  contended  for  them  he  would  have 
to.  And  that  very  same  ^^ dictator"  has 
since  acknowledged  that  fourteen  of  their 
members  were  not  present,  and  that  there 
were  fifty-six  of  our  members  present  at  the 
first  meeting  on  Monday,  the  thirteenth  inst., 
— that  being  four  majority  of  all  the  mem- 
bers elect.  He  knew  that  his  party  was  to 
be  in  the  minority,  and  knowing  it,  he  came 
to  me  individually  and  requested  an  interview 
with  me  after  my  election  as  President  of  this 
body,  to  permit  him  to  suggest  certain  posi- 
tions he  wished  to  occupy  upon  the  commit- 
tees— hoping  to  have  a  ])roniinent  place  upon 
the  committees,  in  case  he  did  not  succeed  in 
making  his  party  follow  him  in  his  attempt 
to  break  up  the  Constitutional  Convention 
altogether. 

Again,  it  is  notliing  new  for  that  individual 
who  is  now  the  acknowledged  leader  of  that 
party,  to  change  his  position  upon  any  sub- 
ject, or  his  course  of  action,  or  his  pohcy.  I 
recollect  very  well  having  been  a  member  of 
the  Council  a  year  ago  last  winter,  when  the 
subject  of  giving  the  old  North-Western  Rail- 
road Company  an  opportunity  of  getting  a 
foothold  in  this  Territory  came  up  for  consid- 
eration. Many  of  us  were  entirely  opposed 
to  it,  and  that  very  "  dictator  "  of  that  party 
had  been  for  a  long  time  professedly  opposed 
to  it.  But,  sir,  after  much  bitter  strife  and 
contention  over  the  matter  upon  both  sides, 
he  deserted  us  and  signed  the  bill  which  they 
asked  him  to  sign. 

Again,  I  can  very  well  remember  when 
that  individual  was  professedly  in  favor  of  a 
north  and  south  line  division  of  this  Territory. 
But  a  short  time  after  he  came  out  in  favor  of 
an  east  and  west.     Knowing  that  to  be  the 


126 


mNNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Monday,  July  27. 


universal  view  of  Southern  Minnesota,  he 
hoped  to  court  some  favor  with  her,  and  gain 
her  support  for  him  to  the  United  States 
Senate  at  some  future  time.  He  then  stated 
that  the  only  reason  why  he  had  heretofore 
been  in  favor  of  a  north  and  south  line  was 
that  he  thought  it  was  going  to  be  a  better 
line  for  the  Democratic  party ;  but  that  he 
had  come  to  the  conclusion  to  sacrifice  party 
interests  for  the  interests  of  the  Territory. 
Then,  sir,  but  a  few  months  after  he  had 
proclaimed  himself  in  favor  of  an  east  and 
west  line,  we  hear  that  he  has  promised  to 
vote  for  a  north  and  south  line  in  the  event 
of  his  election  to  this  Constitutional  Con- 
vention. He  deserted  Southern  Minnesota 
then,  and  that  very  movement  of  his,  he 
having  been  a  prominent  individual  in  the 
Territory,  and  having  taken  a  prominent 
position  in  favor  of  an  east  and  west  line,  made 
it  impossible  to  make  any  successful  struggle 
against  a  north  and  south  line  division. 
Southern  Minnesota  may  give  him  the  credit 
of  having  defeated  her  wishes  in  that  mattef. 

Again  sir,  I  happened  to  have  been  a  mem- 
ber of  the  Council  last  winter  when  the  ques- 
tion of  removing  the  seat  of  government  was 
mooted.  I  was  in  favor  of  its  removal,  and 
I  do  not  deny  that  I  am  still  in  favor  of  it, 
upon  the  general  principle  that  the  seat  of 
government  of  any  State  or  Territory  should 
not  be  at  the  commercial  metropolis  of  that 
State  or  Territory.  And  I  have  another  rea- 
son which  I  will  express  to  my  St.  Paul  friends, 
and  that  is,  that  they  have  always  been  con- 
trolled in  their  political  action  here  by  a  class 
of  men  who  have  always  some  traps  set  for 
the  country  members — by  men  who  are 
always  up  to  this  border  ruffian  kind  of  trick- 
ery— this  kind  of  skullduggery,  as  it  is  called 
in  Minnesota.  And  now  St.  Paul  allows  her- 
self to  be  controlled  by  these  same  border 
ruflian  politicians.  Members  who  come  from 
the  country  are  met  at  the  threshold  with 
some  trap  and  snare. 

But  I  digress  from  the  point.  I  said  I  was 
in  favor  of  the  removal,  but  I  wish  to  state 
that  I  was  not,  as  represented  by  that  dicta- 
tor, the  first  one  to  moot  that  question.  I 
did  not  favor  that  movement  until  after  it 
had  been  discussed  in  private  circles  for  some 
length  of  time,  and  until  I  had  ascertained 
that  I  had  to  take  one  side  or  the  other,  and 


I  finally  took  the  side  that  my  own  inclina- 
tions dictated.  The  "dictator"  of  the  other 
party,  to  my  own  personal  knowledge,  was 
in  favor  of  the  removal  from  the  very  begin- 
ning and  inception  of  the  agitation  upon  that 
subject.  To  my  personal  knowledge  he  was 
the  adviser  of  the  Saint  Peter  Company  from 
the  beginning  of  that  struggle  to  the  end  of 
it.  To  my  personal  knowledge,  he  was  the 
one  who  drafted  that  bill  as  it  passed,  with 
the  exception  of  some  minor  amendments 
which  were  made  to  it.  He  says  to  the  Saint 
Peter  Company :  "  Gentlemen,  let  me  appar- 
"ently  stand  in  the  back  ground  ;  I  am  Gover- 
"nor,  and  I  do  not  want  it  to  appear  that  I  am 
"very  anxious  in  the  matter;  but  if  you  want 
"my  assistance  at  any  time  when  there  is  a 
"hard  job  before  you,  I  am  ready — I  do  not 
"want  to  say  much  about  this  matter,  but  I 
"am  willing  to  meet  you  in  your  deliberations 
"on  this  matter,  though  I  do  not  wish  to  have 
"it  go  forth  that  as  Governor  I  am  working  for 
"the  removal  of  this  Capitol."  I  personally 
know  that  this  leader  advised  in  the  whole 
matter,  and  that  his  advice  was  generally 
taken.  He  was  looked  up  to  as  the  best  man- 
ager in  the  matter.  I  have  it  sir,  in  black 
and  white  in  my  own  house,  that  he  was  in 
favor  of  it.  I  have  even  seen  him  since  I 
have  been  in  this  city  within  the  last  three 
weeks  distributing  Revekdy  Johnson's  opin- 
ion upon  the  subject  of  the  removal.  He 
presented  me  with  a  copy.  I  personally 
know  that  he  obtained  a  copy  of  the  act  as  it 
passed,  with  all  the  objections  of  the  presiding 
officers,  with  the  very  object  of  going  to 
Washington  and  obtaining  the  opinion  of 
learned  and  legal  gentleman  upon  the  IcgaUty 
of  that  bill.  But,  sir,  after  a  few  months  we 
find  a  denial  by  that  gentleman,  that  he  was 
in  favor  of  a  removal  at  aU.  He  says  he 
thought  it  was  a  premature  movement,  and 
that  he  thought  it  would  fall  still-born  ;  that 
ho  knew  it  would  not  succeed ;  that  he  advised 
accordingly;  and  he  attributes  the  Avhole 
movement  to  the  Black  Republicans.  He 
deserted  his  friends  in  that  movement, 
changed  his  course,  and  for  what  ?  To  ac- 
complish a  selfish  end  at  the  time — to  accom- 
plish his  election  as  a  member  of  this  Con- 
vention, thinking  that  that  very  election 
would  place  him  as  "  dictator  "  in  the  party, 
wliich  it  has.    In  one  sense  of  the  word  per- 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Monday,  July  27. 


127 


haps  it  was  a  slirewd  movement.  He  denied 
that  he  was  in  favor  of  the  removal,  and  said 
he  signed  the  bill  reluctantly;  that  he  was 
driven  to  it  because  somebody  in  St.  Paul 
had  threatened  violence  if  he  did,  and  that  he 
must  show  he  was  not  a  coward.  Tliis  de- 
sertion of  the  friends  of  the  removal  will  make 
it  impossible  to  accomplish  that  end  for  some 
time  to  come.  Now  I  submit,  after  men  who 
are  the  acknowledged  leaders  of  that  party, 
have  changed  their  views  and  course  of  ac- 
tion upon  so  many  questions  of  the  day, 
whether  it  is  anything  strange,  after  having 
been  once  in  favor  of  the  immediate  admission 
of  Minnesota  into  the  Union,  they  should 
tm"n  about  and  try  to  prevent  it  ?  Is  it  not 
in  exact  accordance  with  the  action  of  the 
leaders  of  that  party  in  the  past  ?  They  will 
shift  as  many  times  as  they  think  necessary 
to  accomplish  some  personal  and  party  end. 

Now,  sir,  I  say  the  people  should  know 
that  such  is  their  intention  at  tliis  time ;  that 
they  do  intend  to  prevent,  if  possible,  this 
Territory  from  coming  in  as  a  State  at  this 
time.  And  it  is  for  this  purpose  and  no  other 
tliat  I  have  attempted  to  make  a  few  remarks. 
I  presented  the  resolution  to  which  I  have 
spoken,  for  the  purpose  of  waking  up  the 
people  upon  this  subject,  and  having  them 
express  their  views  in  their  various  counties 
and  districts  in  condemnation  of  the  course 
the  democratic  leaders,  and  democratic  party 
are  taking  to  accomplish  selfish  and  party 
objects.  Ought  the  great  interest  of  this 
Territory  to  be  sacrificed  to  the  accomplish- 
ment of  these  selfish  objects  ?  Ought  our 
railroad,  our  commercial  and  our  financial 
interests  be  sacrificed  to  promote  the  perso- 
nal ambition  of  some  party  leaders  ? 

I  hope  the  resolution  will  be  passed  and 
that  each  one  of  us  will  hereafter  let  our  con- 
stituents know  fully  what  is  transpiring  here. 
We  stand  in  a  position  where  we  are  cogni- 
zant of  all  that  transpires,  and  it  is  our  duty 
to  let  the  people  know  what  plottings  are  tak- 
ing place  against  their  interests.  We  are 
here  where  we  can  find  out  all  the  movements 
of  tliat  party  before  and  since  our  organiza- 
tion ;  and  we  are  perhaps  better  able  to  judge 
what  the  object  of  those  leaders  are,  than  our 
friends  at  home  are,  who  are  attending  to 
their  own  private  affairs.  The  people  at 
home  are  under  the  impression  that  every 


body  is  in  favor  of  coming  into  the  Union  as 
a  State  as  soon  as  possible,  and  that  there  are 
no  politicians  seeking  to  prevent  it.  I  say 
their  minds  should  be  disabused,  and  it  is  for 
that  purpose,  and  that  purpose  alone,  that  I 
make  these  remarks  to-day. 

I  move  that  this  resolution  lie  upon  the 
table  for  the  present.  I  \vish  to  hear  others 
upon  it,  and  I  make  the  motion  in  order  to 
give  a  favorable  opportunity  for  discussing  it. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to,  and  the  resolu- 
tion was  laid  on  the  table. 

And  then,  on  motion  of  Mr.  CLEGHORN, 
(at  one  o'clock)  the  Convention  adjourned 
until  two  o'clock. 

AFTERNOON  SESSION. 
The  Convention  met  at  two  o'clock. 

KEPORT    OF    COMMITTEE. 

Mr.  MORGAN,  from  the  committee  on  the 
Organization  and  Government  of  Cities  and 
Villages,  made  the  following  report  which 
was  read  a  first  and  second  time,  and  laid 
upon  the  table  to  be  printed,  viz  : 

The  committee  on  the  Organization  of  Cities  and 
Villaf  es,  beg  leave  to  report  the  following  sec- 
tion to  be  inserted  in  the  Constitution  : 
Sectio.v  1.     The  Legislature  shall  grant  no  Act 
of  Incorporation  establishing  the  form  of  a  city 
government  for  any  place  or  portion  of  territory, 
which  at  the  time  does  not  contain  a  resident  popu- 
lation of  not  less  than  three  thousand.     Xor  shall 
the  Legislature  grant  any  special  act  for  the  incor- 
poration of  any  town  or  village  which  does  not  at 
the  time  contain  a  .  resident  population  of  not  less 
than  five  hundred. 
All  of  which  is  respectfully  submitted. 

PEEAMBLE    AND    BILL    OF    RIGHTS. 

On  motion  of  Mr.  SECOMBE,  the  Conven- 
tion resolved  itself  into  a  committee  of  the 
Whole,  on  the  report  of  the  committee  on.  the 
Preamble  and  Bill  of  Rights.  (Mr.  Morgan 
in  the  Chair),  and  resumed  the  consideration 
of  said  bill  at  the  point  where  the  committee 
left  it  at  its  last  sitting.  The  pending  ques- 
tion being  upon  the  amendment  to  the  thir- 
teenth section,  offered  by  Mr.  Wilson  to  add 
thereto  the  words — 

"  The  jury  or  commissioners  assessing  the  dam- 
ages shall  not  take  into  consideration  any  advan- 
tage which  may  arise  to  the  owner  on  account  of 
the  improvement  for  which  it  is  taken." 

Mr.  HARDING.  I  move  to  amend  the 
amendment  by  adding  thereto  the  foUowing  : 

"  And  no  property  shall  be  taken  possession  of 
for  public  use  until  the  damages  assessed  shall 
have  been  tendered." 


li 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Monday,  Jlly  27. 


The  amendment  to  the  amendment  was  re- 
jected. 

The  amendment  was  not  agi*eed  to. 
Mr.  CLEGIIORN.     I  move  that  the  com- 
mittee now  rise  and  report  the  report  to  the 
Convention. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  will  move  an  amend- 
ment, which  I  presume  the  gentleman  will  ac- 
cept, and  that  is,  withi  a  recommendation  that 
the  various  amendments  made  by  the  com- 
mittee of  the  Whole  be  adopted. 

Mr.  CLEGHORN.  I  accept  the  amendment. 
The  motion  was  agreed  to. 
So  the  committee  rose,  and  the  President 
having  resumed  the  Chair,  the  Chairman  of 
the  committee  reported  that  the  committee 
had  had  imder  consideration  the  report  of  the 
standing  committee  to  whom  was  referred 
that  portion  of  the  Constitution  relating  to 
the  Preamble  and  Bill  of  Rights,  that  they 
had  made  sundry  amendments  thfireto,  and 
had  directed  him  to  report  the  same  to  the 
Convention,  with  a  reconmiendation  that  the 
amendments  be  agreed  to. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  Under  the  rule  I'believe 
the  report  lies  over  one  day  before  it  can  be 
acted  upon. 

The  PRESIDENT.  After  a  bill  is  reported 
back  to  the  Convention  from  the  committee 
of  the  Whole,  the  first  question  is  upon  the 
adoption  of  the  amendments  recommended 
by  such  coumiittee,  vmless  some  other  dispo- 
sition of  the  report  be  made. 

Mr.  MORGAN.  The  Chairman  of  the 
committee  (Mr.  Coggswell)  who  reported  this 
Preamble  and  Bill  of  Rights  is  not  now  here 
to  give  his  reasons  in  favor  of  the  various  sec- 
tions of  this  report.  A  good  many  other 
members  are  also  absent  to-day,  and  it  seems 
to  me  that  when  we  take  final  action  upon 
this  part  of  the  Constitution  there  should  be 
as  many  members  present  as  we  can  get  to- 
gether at  any  one  time.  I  therefore  move 
that  the  report  do  lie  upon  the  table. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to,  and  the  report 
was  laid  upon  the  table. 

EXECUTIVE   DEPARTMENT. 

On  motion  of  Mr.  BATES,  the  Convention 
resolved  itself  into  a  committee  of  the  Whole. 
(Mr.  NoBTii  in  the  chair)  upon  the  report  of 
the  committee  to  whom  was  referred  that  jjart 
of  the  Constitution  relating  to  the  Executive 
Department. 


The  report  was  read  by  sections  for  con- 
sideration and  amendment. 
{For  report^  see  proceedings  of  22d  July.) 
Section  1.  The  executive  power  shall  be  vested 
in  a  Governor,  who  shall  hold  his  office  for  two 
years.  A  Lieutenant  Governor  shall  be  elected  at 
the  same  time,  and  for  the  same  term. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  move  to  strike  out 
"  two"  and  insert  "  three." 

The  amendment  was  not  agreed  to. 

Sec.  2.  No  person  except  a  citizen  of  the  United 
States,  shall  be  eligible  to  the  office  of  Governor, 
nor  shall  any  person  be  eligible  to  that  office,  who 
has  not  attained  the  age  of  thirty  years,  and  who 
shall  not  have  been  one  year  next  preceding  his 
election,  a  resident  within  the  State,  or  a  resident 
at  the  time  of  the  adoption  of  this  Constitution. 

Mr.  HOLLEY.  I  move  to  amend  that  sec- 
tion by  striking  out  the  words  "  citizen  of  the 
"  United  States,"  and  insert  "  citizen  of  this 
"  State." 

The  amendment  was  not  agreed  to. 

Mr.  BOBBINS.  I  move  to  amend  by  strik- 
ing out  all  after  the  word  "  State"  in  the  fifth 
line. 

Mr.  MORGAN.  The  clause  proposed  to 
to  be  stricken  out  was  inserted  by  the  com- 
mittee with  reference  to  the  election  of  the 
first  Governor,  as  there  might  be  a  question 
whether  there  would  be  any  person  eligible  to 
the  office  of  Governor,  at  the  first  election, 
without  that  clause.  The  preceding  part  re- 
quires the  person  to  have  been  a  resident  of 
the  State  for  one  year  next  preceding  his  elec- 
tion. There  could  probably  be  no  person 
having 'that  qualification  at  our  first  election 
of  State  officers. 

The  amendment  was  not  agreed  to. 

Mr.  WILSON.  I  move  to  strike  out  the 
word  "  one"  and  insert  "  three." 

If  this  Constitution  were  not  expected  to 
remain  in  force  for  a  number  of  years  I  should 
not  wish  the  change  I  propose.  But  in  a  few 
years  from  this  I  do  not  think  it  would  be 
well  or  proper  that  a  man  coming  into  our 
State  and  being  a  resident  for  only  one  year, 
should  be  eligible  to  the  office  of  Governor. 
We  could  not  become  sufficiently  acquainted 
with  such  a  man  in  that  length  of  time.  I 
think,  too,  that  the  one  year  resident  qualifi- 
cation is  unprecedented.  I  have  not  particu- 
larly examined  the  point,  but  I  do  not  recollect 
of  ever  seeing  it  before.  Whether  there  is  a 
precedent  or  not,  I  do  not  think  it  is  proper. 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Monday,  July  27. 


129 


The  amendment  was  rejected. 

Mr.  DAVIS.  I  move  to  amend  by  strik- 
ing out  the  word  "  thirty"  and  inserting 
"  twenty-five. 

The  amendment  was  rejected. 

Mr.  DAVIS.  Of  course  I  supposed  that 
every  member  who  had  attained  the  age  of 
thirty  would  vote  against  my  amendment. 
(Laughter.) 

CLEGHORN.  I  move  to  strike  out  the 
word  "  thirty"  and  insert  "  twenty-one." 

The  amendment  was  not  agreed  to. 

Mr.  DICKERSON  moved  to  strike  out  the 
word  "  one"  and  insert  "  two." 

The  amendment  was  agreed  to. 

Mr.  BALCOMBE.  I  move  to  strike  out 
the  words  "  who  has  not  attained  the  age  of 
thirty  years." 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  rise  to  a  point  of  order. 
We  have  voted  down  one  amendment  equiva- 
lent to  that,  and  I  contend  that  this  amend- 
ment is  not  in  order. 

Mr.  B-U.COMBE.  I  believe  that  an  amend- 
ment to  strike  out  certain  words  is  not  equiva- 
lent to  a  motion  to  strike  out  and  insert 
others  in  their  place. 

The  CHAIRMAN.  The  Chair  thinks  the 
point  of  order  is  not  well  taken. 

Mr.  BILLINGS.  I  caU  for  the  reading  of 
the  thirty -ninth  rule. 

The  rule  was  read  as  follows : 
"  A  motion  to  strike  out  and  insert  shall  be 
deemed  indivisible ;  but  a  motion  to  strike  out 
being  lost  shall  neither  preclude  amendment,  nor 
a  motion  to  strike  out  and  insert." 

The  CHAIRMAN.  The  Chair  thinks  that 
the  amendment  is  in  order. 

Mr.  BALCOMBE.  I  am  pretty  positive 
that  I  am  correct  in  the  position  that  after  a 
motion  has  been  made  to  strike  out  and 
insert,  I  have  the  right  to  make  the  simple 
motion  to  strike  out  without  inserting  any- 
thing. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  Ordinarily  I  should  not 
differ  with  the  gentleman  from  "Winona  upon 
that  point.  But  I  put  my  objection  now  upon 
the  principle  that  where  the  committee  have 
refused  to  adopt  a  certain  amendment,  the 
same  amendment  or  an  equivalent  one  cannot 
be  offered,  the  committee  having  expressed 
their  wish  that  such  an  amendment  shall  not 
be  adopted.  Now  an  amendment  was  offered 
to  strike  out  *'  thirty,"  and  insert  "  twenty- 
17 


one,"  which  would  make  any  person  of  the 
age  of  twenty-one  years  eligible  to  the  office 
of  Governor,  if  he  had  the  other  qualifica- 
tions. The  amendment  now  offered  by  the 
gentleman  from  TTinona  is  to  the  same 
effect. 

Mr.  BALCOMBE.  I  believe  the  Chair 
decided  my  amendment  in  order.  I  am 
opposed  to  putting  any  restraint  upon  the 
action  of  the  people  in  the  election  of  their 
servants,  but  I  am  in  favor  of  putting  into 
the  Constitution  all  possible  restrictions  upon 
the  actions  and  movements  of  the  servants 
themselves,  upon  the  Legislature,  the  Gover- 
nor, the  Secretary,  and  all  other  officers.  I 
am  as  ready  and  anxious  to  restrict  the  action 
of  those  officers  as  perhaps  any  gentleman 
upon  this  floor,  but  I  would  not  restrict  the 
people  themselves,  in  the  election  of  their 
servants.  They  should  have  a  firee  choice. 
If  they  desire  to  elect  a  man  twenty -one, 
twenty -five,  or  fifty  years  of  age,  let  them 
do  so. 

Mr.  ALDRICH.  I  agree  with  the  gentle- 
man who  has  last  spoken,  and  I  do  not  see 
any  good  reason  why  a  man  twenty-one 
twenty-two,  or  twenty-three  years  of  age, 
should  not  have  the  privilege  of  being  elected 
Governor  if  the  people  desire  it ;  for  I  take  it 
that  the  people  would  not  elect  such  a  man 
unless  he  was  qualified  for  the  office.  I  find 
by  reference  to  the  Constitution  of  Wisconsin 
there  is  no  limit  as  to  age  in  reference  to  the 
eligibility  of  Governor.  I  believe  the  people 
of  Minnesota  are  as  intelligent  as  any  other 
people,  and  wiU  know  when  a  man  is  quali- 
fied to  discharge  the  duties  of  the  office  of 
Governor.  I  am  in  favor  of  "  Young  Amer- 
ica" myself  and  of  giving  my  fi:iend  Davis 
here  a  chance,  believing  that  he  is  0  K,  and 
all  "  right  on  the  goose." 

Mr.  DAVIS.  I  thank  the  gentleman  for 
his  kind  offer  for  support,  but  I  will  inform 
him  that  I  do  not  expect  to  be  a  candidate 
this  &11,  but  shall  wait  imtil  the  next  election, 
and  I  suggest  that  if  this  gentleman  himself 
should  happen  to  be  a  candidate  for  the  office, 
I  warrant  him  the  support  of  all  "  Young 
America;"  and  I  would  also  suggest  to  gen- 
tlemen who  voted  against  the  amendment, 
adopting  twenty-one  years,  that  they  had 
better  look  at  home  and  see  if  they  have  not 
some  "  Young  Americans "  in  their  region, 


180 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Mondat,  July  27. 


and  if  they  have,  I  hope  to  mercy,  they  wiU 
all  be  found  arrayed  against  those  who  adhere 
to  the  thirty  year  quaUtication.  I  am  in  favor 
of  the  amendment,  and  I  think  there  ai'e  many 
men  who  have  attained  the  age  of  twenty- 
one,  who  are  as  well  qualified,  as  those  who 
have  attained  the  age  of  thirty. 

Mr.  WILSON.  I  think  that  the  idea  that 
a  man  is  as  well  qualified  for  office  at  the  age 
of  twenty-one  as  he  is  at  thirty,  is  not  saying 
much  for  progression.  We  know  from  our 
general  knowledge  of  things,  that  few  men  at 
twenty-one  know  enough  about  government, 
or  know  enough  about  htmian  nature,  to  resist 
those  snares  and  temptations  which  are 
thrown  around  Governors.  I  go  with  all  my 
heart  for  thirty  years,  and  I  do  not  believe 
that  one  out  of  a  thousand  is  qualified  for 
that  office  before  he  arrives  at  that  age. 

Mr.  DAVIS.  I  would  inform  the  gentle- 
man that  I  said  rnany  men,  not  all  men.  And 
by  the  way,  I  take  it  tliat  the  gentleman  is 
above  the  age  of  thirty.     (Laughter.) 

Mr.  BATES.  I  am  as  much  in  favor  of 
the  liberty  of  the  people  as  any  man,  but  I 
think  that  this  restriction  is  a  wise  one.  The 
feeling  of  Young  America  among  us  is  quite 
prominent,  and  vmder  the  excitement  of  that 
feeling,  an  incompetent  man  might  be  pre- 
sented as  an  independent  candidate,  and 
might  be  elected,  when  there  would  be  no 
chance  for  him  if  this  restriction  is  imposed. 
If  we  are  to  throw  aside  this  limit,  why,  I 
say  throw  aside  all  limits.  Why  make  two 
years  residence  a  qualification,  and  why  re- 
quire a  man  to  be  a  certain  time  within  the 
Tenitory  ?  If  one  restriction  is  to  be  taken 
off,  I  go  for  taking  off  all  restrictions. 

Mr.  BALCOMBE.  I  am  in  favor  of  per- 
mitting the  people,  if  they  see  fit  to  do  so  in 
their  sovereign  capacity,  to  elect  any  legal 
voter,  I  am  perfectly  willing  that  they 
should  act  their  pleasure  in  that  matter.  I 
think  that  the  qualification  of  two  years  resi- 
dence should  also  be  stricken  out.  If  a  man 
has  become  a  legal  voter  he  ought  to  be  eligi- 
ble to  any  office  in  the  State. 

I  disclaim  any  connection  with  this  particu- 
lar anxiety  about  Young  America,  and  I  hope 
this  question  will  not  be  decided  upon  that 
point.  I  hope  it  will  be  decided  upon  the 
principle  of  giving  the  people  their  own  desire 
in  this  matter,  and  that  they  will  be  permit- 


ted   to    act    freely    without    restriction    or 
restraint. 

Mr.  DICKERSON.  As  a  general  thing 
our  judgments  are  much  more  mature  at  the 
age  of  thirty  than  they  are  at  twenty-one  or 
twenty-five,  and  for  my  part  I  hope  the 
amendment  will  not  prevail. 

Mr.  PERKINS.  If  the  idea  "of  the  Con- 
vention is  to  encourage  and  foster  Young 
America,  why  not  go  down  to  the  age  of  ten 
years  or  thereabouts.  They  are  more  Young 
Americans  from  ten  to  twenty-one  than  at 
any  other  time.  The  idea  that  the  people- 
should  have  the  greatest  liberty,  would  apply 
just  as  well  to  all  other  provisions  of  the  Con- 
stitution as  to  this.  Take  away  your  Bill  of 
Rights  and  remove  the  Constitution  itself,  for 
they  are  restrictions  thrown  around  the 
actions  of  the  people,  and  say  that  the  people 
may  settle  those  matters  hereafter.  If  they 
wish  the  writ  of  habeas  corpus  suspended 
during  time  of  war,  let  them  suspend  it.  If 
they  want  dueling  established  here,  let  them 
establish  it.  Do  not  throw  any  restrictions 
in  the  way  of  the  people.  Now  that  argu- 
ment ought  not  to  weigh  in  the  mind  of  the 
Convention.  There  may  be  cases  where  a 
man  at  the  age  of  twenty-one  may  be  better 
qualified  for  the  office  of  Governor  than  some 
who  may  get  into  the  Governor's  chair  at  the 
age  of  thirty.  But  if  any  time  is  to  be  set, 
this  Convention  ought  to  resolve  that  a  man 
is  qualified  for  that  office  at  the  age  of  thirty 
if  he  is  ever  qualified.  It  seems  to  me  that  as 
a  general  tjiing,  men  do  not  become  sufficiently 
mature  for  that  office  until  the  age  of  thirt}^, 

Mr.  BALCOMBE.  In  the  Bill  of  Rights 
we  guarantee  to  the  people  certain  rights, 
and  we  refuse  to  bestow  upon  the  Legislature, 
upon  the  Judges,  and  the  rulers,  the  right  or 
power  of  taking  from  them  certain  liberties, 
and  certain  inalienable  rights.  But  that  is  a 
different  matter  altogether  from  what  is  pro- 
posed in  this  section.  Tliis  is  saying  to  the 
people  that  though  they  should  be  in  favor  of 
a  certain  person  for  Governor,  they  shall  not 
have  him,  unless  he  is  of  a  certain  age.  In 
the  Bill  of  Rights  we  guarantee  the  people 
certain  rights  against  those  whom  they  clothe 
with  a  little  authority.  That  is  proper  for  us 
to  do,  and,  as  I  said  before,  I  would  go  as 
far  as  any  man  to  restrain  the  actions  of 
those  rulers  and  servants. 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Monday,  July  2T. 


181 


Mr.  PECKHAM.  The  office  of  Governor 
will  be  %  highest  in  the  gift  of  the  people, 
and  it  seems  to  me  that  it  will  be  no  favor  to 
the  young  man  to  advance  liini  to  the  top- 
most round  of  the  ladder  at  the  outset.  If 
there  is  a  man  of  ability  in  the  State  of  the 
age  of  twenty -one  years,  his  services  will  be 
wanted  by  the  State  for  many  years,  but  if 
he  is  advanced  to  the  highest  office  at  once,  it 
\Y\]1  be  readily  seen  that  liis  services  will  not 
be  enjoyed  by  the  State  for  so  long  a  time  as 
they  would  be  if  he  passed  through  the  sub- 
ordinate offices  first  It  is  an  old  remark 
that  the  captain  of  a  vessel,  who  creeps  in  at 
the  cabin  window,  is  not  so  well  qualified  to 
command  a  ship,  as  he  who  advances  through 
successive  grades  up  to  captain.  So  it  is  in 
regard  to  the  office  of  Governor.  He  should 
have  experience,  and  be  prepared  for  the  office 
by  taking  the  preparatory  steps. 

The  question  was  taken  on  Mr.  Balcombe's 
amendment,  and  it  was  not  agi'eed  to. 

Mr.  HARDING.  I  move  to  strike  out  the 
word  "  state"  where  it  last  occurs,  and  insert 
the  word  "  territory,"  and  strike  out  the  bal- 
ance of  the  section. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  shall  be  obliged  to 
oppose  that  amendment  upon  the  same  ground 
that  the  gentleman  from  VTinona  advocated 
the  other.  If  the  people  choose  to  elect  a 
Governor  who  has  not  been  a  resident  of  the 
Territory  more  than  a  year  or  six  months, 
they  ought  to  have  the  right  to  do  so.  Had 
the  one  year  residence  qualification  been 
retained,  I  should  not  be  so  much  opposed  to 
the  amendment.  If  the  amendment  should 
be  adopted,  no  man  can  be  elected  Governor 
at  the  first  election  who  has  not  been  a  resi- 
dent for  two  years. 

The  amendment  was  rejected. 
Mr.  WILSON.     I  move  to  strike  out  the 
whole  section  and  insert — 

"  Xo  person  shall  be  eligible  to  the  office  of 
Governor,  who  has  not  been  a  resident  of  the 
Territory  two  years,  and  who  is  not  a  citizen  of  the 
United  States,  or  who  shall  not  be  a  resident  of 
this  State  at  the  time  of  the  adoption  of  this 
Constitution." 

The  amendment  was  not  agreed  to. 
Sec.  7.  The  Lieutenant-Governor  shall  possess 
the  same  qualifications  of  eligibility  for  office  as  the 
Governor.  He  shall  be  President  of  the  Senate, 
but  shall  only  have  a  casting  vote  therein.  If 
during  a  vacancy  of  the  office  of  Governor,  the 
Lieutenant-Governor    shall   be  impeached,   dis- 


placed, resign,  die,  or  become  incapable  of  per- 
forming the  duties  of  his  office,  or  be  absent  from 
the  State,  the  President  of  the  Senate  shall  act  as 
Governor  until  the  vacancy  be  filled,  or  the  disa- 
bility shall  cease. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  move  that  the  seventh 
section  be  stricken  out.  My  object  is  not  to 
get  rid  of  the  whole  of  that  section.  If  it  is 
stricken  out,  I  shall  move,  when  the  next 
section  comes  up  for  consideration,  to  insert 
in  it  such  parts  of  this  section  as  I  wish  to 
retain.  I  am  opposed  to  the  Lieutenant  Gov- 
ernor acting  as  President  of  the  Senate.  I 
believe  every  deliberative  body  should  have 
the  right  of  selecting  then-  own  presiding 
officer.  It  is  very  important  that  there  should 
always  exist  a  good  feeling  and  understand- 
ing between  the  presiding  officer  of  a  deliber- 
ative body  and  a  majority  of  the  members. 
The  Lieutenant  Governor  is  usually  nomina- 
ted with  a  particular  view  to  his  qualifications 
for  the  executive  department,  whereas  •  the 
President  of  the  Senate  should  be  elected  with 
a  view  to  his  qualifications  as  a  presiding 
officer.  Now  the  qualifications  for  the  two 
offices  are  entirely  unlike.  A  man  may  be  a 
good  executive  officer,  and  yet  be  entirely 
unqualified  to  be  a  good  presiding  officer  of  a 
a  deliberative  body»  while  on  the  other  hand 
a  man  who  has  those  peculiar  qualities  and 
talents  which  fit  him  for  a  presiding  officer, 
may  lack  the  qualities  of  an  executive  officer. 

And  not  only  that,  but  this  report  provides 
that  the  Governor  and  the  Lieutenant-Gover- 
nor shall  hold  their  offices  for  two  years.  If 
this  section  is  adopted  it  may  happen  that  we 
shall  have  a  presiding  officer  of  the  Senate 
whose  political  \aews  may  be  opposed  to  those 
of  a  majority  of  the  Senate.  It  may  be  that 
when  the  Lieutenant-Governor  and  the  Senate 
are  elected,  they  may  be  of  the  same  political 
views,  but  it  may  happen  that  during  the  first 
year  vacancies  may  occur  in  the  Senate,  and 
when  the  vacancies  are  filled,  the  political 
complexion  of  the  majority  may  be  changed, 
and  thereby  the  President  of  the  Senate  and 
a  majority  of  the  Senate  wovild  be  of  diffijrent 
political  parties.  Now  I  hold  that  the  Senate 
should  have  the  privilege  of  electing  a  presi- 
ding officer  of  their  own  political  views. 

I  hope  the  committee  will  consider  the 
matter  fully  and  carefully  before  they  act 
upon  it.  There  are  other  views  which  might 
be  urged    against  making  the    Lieutenant- 


182 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Monday,  July  27. 


Governor  President  of  the  Senate,  but  these 
are  suflBcient,  I  think,  to  induce  the  committee 
to  vote  to  strike  out  this  section. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  I  hope  the  motion  will 
not  prevail,  not  so  much  that  I  am  opposed  to 
innovation,  as  that  I  think  that  the  more 
stability  we  can  give  to  deliberative  bodies  the 
better,  so  far  as  the  formation  of  this  Consti- 
tution is  concerned.  I  hope  every  member  of 
this  body  will  lay  aside  all  political  con- 
siderations. 

Mr.  BALCOMBE.     I  hope  the  motion  will 
prevail.     I  am  not  only  in  favor  of  the  people 
electing  the  President  of  the  Senate,  but  I  am 
also  in  favor  of  their  electing  the  Speaker  of 
the  House  of  Representatives.     I  think  the 
presiding  officer   should   feel   himself  under 
obligation  to  every  part  and  every  portion  of 
the  State,  and  should  not  be  the  particular 
and  immediate  representative  of  any  particular 
portion  of  it.     Having  had  some  experience 
in  these  matters,  and  having  set  one  session 
as  a  member  of  the  Cooncil  under  a  presiding 
officer,  when  a  particular  question  came  before 
that  body,  I  came  to  the  conclusion  that  as  a 
general  rule  the  people  would  elect  better 
presiding  officers  than  the  body  itself,  because 
it  will  be  the  object  of  the  people  to  nominate 
men  peculiarly  fitted  for  that  office,  in  order 
that  they  may  bring  strength  to  the  ticket 
upon  which  they  run.     If  so  elected,  he  would 
be  more  impartial,  and  less  under  obligation 
to  particular  localities.    The  election  of  officers 
of  the  Senate  and  House  of  Representatives 
are  generally  conducted  upon  the  principle  of 
"  you  vote  for  me  and  my  candidate,  and  I 
"will  vote  for  you  and  your  candidate."     It 
is  the  buy  and  sell  system — a  sort  of  log- 
rolling.    A  man    is    not    generally  elected 
because  he  is  better  qualified  for  that  position 
than  any  other  member  of  the  body,  but 
probably  because  he  may  be  a  little  shrewder 
in  seeking  for  the  station,  or  because  he  has 
the  advantage  of  locality.     And  generally  he 
is  elected  under  the  influence  of  those  in  the 
government,  wherever  it  is.     This  may  not, 
to  the  iminitiated  appear  to  be  so,  but  it  is 
nevertheless  the  case,  and  I  want  to  see  the 
election  of  these  officers  put  out  of  the  reach 
of  a  few  individuals,  a  few  political  tricksters 
who  may  be  hanging  around. 

Mr.  COLBURN,     I  simply  desire  to  say, 
as  the  gentleman's  main  objection  is,  that  the 


election  of  officers  by  the  bodies  themselves 
is  a  system  of  log-rolling,  traffic  and  trade, 
that  I  do  not  believe  there  ever  was  a  system 
of  log-rolling,  traffic  and  trade,  carried  on  in 
the  election  of  a  presiding  officer  to  a  greater 
extent  than  in  political  caucuses  and  conven- 
tions. It  may  not  be  done  in  precisely  the 
same  manner,  but  it  will  be  done  upon  the 
principle  of  "if  you  will  vote  for  a  man  from 
"  my  section  for  this  office,  I  will  vote  for  a 
' '  man  from  your  section  for  that  office.' '  And 
the  system  will  be  carried  on  to  a  greater 
extent  too,  because  those  caucuses  will  be 
larger  than  the  caucuses  in  these  bodies. 

Mr.  ALDRICH.  In  eveiy  State  of  the 
Union  where  they  have  a  Lieutenant-Governor, 
he  is  by  law  made  President  of  the  Senate, 
except  in  the  State  of  Rhode  Island.  So  also 
the  Vice-President  of  the  United  States  is 
President  of  the  Senate  of  the  United  States. 
The  committee  inserted  this  section  because 
its  provisions  were  recommended  to  them  by 
the  practice  of  all  the  States.  Unless  he  is 
made  President  of  the  Senate,  I  should  be  in 
favor  of  striking  out  from  the  report  every- 
thing that  relates  to  him. 

Mr.  BILLINGS.  I  move  to  amend  by 
striking  out  the  words, 

"  He  shall  be  President  of  the  Senate,  but  shall 
have  only  a  casting  vote  therein." 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  withdraw,  then,  my 
amendment,  and  allow  the  question  to  be 
taken  upon  the  one  just  oflfered. 

Mr.  ALDRICH.  The  objection  is  made 
that  the  President  of  the  Senate  may  be  of  a 
different  political  party  than  the  majority  of 
the  body.  But  I  take  it  for  granted  that  the 
members  of  that  body  are  to  be  elected  for 
the  same  time  with  the  Governor  and  Lieu- 
tenant-Governor, But  whether  that  is  the 
case  or  not,  I  do  not  see  that  it  makes  any 
great  difference  if  he  should  belong  to  an- 
other party. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  It  may  be  true  that  they 
would  be  elected  the  same  year,  and  yet  a 
majority  of  the  Senate,  elected  by  districts, 
might  be  of  a  different  political  complexion 
from  the  Lieutenant-Governor,  who  is  elected 
by  a  general  ticket.  It  should  also  be  remem- 
bered that  the  President  of  the  Senate  has  the 
appointment  of  committees.  If  he  belongs  to 
a  different  political  party,  his  friends  will 
demand  that  he  shall   favor  them  upon  the 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Monday,  Jcly  27. 


133 


committees,  and  that  a  majority  of  his  political 
friends  shall  be  appointed  upon  them.  It 
does  seem  to  me  improper  that  a  presiding 
oflBcer  should  belong  to  a  different  political 
party  from  that  of  a  majority  of  the  body 
over  which  he  presides.  Suppose  that  this 
year  a  Lieutenant-Governor  is  elected  by  the 
people  of  the  State,  and  he  and  the  Senate 
agree  in  politics.  But  vacancies  may  occur 
during  the  year  in  the  Senate.  At  our  next 
annual  election  we  fill  those  vacancies  by  the 
election  of  men  of  a  different  party  from  those 
who  occupied  the  seats  at  the  time  the 
Lieutenant-Governor  was  elected.  Then  dur- 
ing the  second  year  that  officer  presided  over 
the  Senate,  he  would  not  agree  with  them  in 
political  views.  Such  a  case  may  occur,  for 
the  political  opinions  of  the  people  may 
change,  and  that  change  may  be  manifested 
in  filling  those  vacancies. 

Mr.  BILLINGS.  It  seems  to  me  that  we 
are  providing  for  three  offices  to  be  filled  by 
two  officers.  In  case  the  Grovemor  dies,  the 
Lieutenant-Governor  fiUs  his  place,  and  then 
he  holds  two  offices — that  of  Governor,  and 
President  of  the  Senate. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  As  far  as  any  incon- 
sistency arising  from  the  language  of  this 
section  is  concerned,  I  think  it  is  all  correct. 
It  provides  that  if  a  vacancy  shall  occurr  in 
the  office  of  Governor,  the  Lieutenant- 
Governor  shall  be  Governor  of  the  State,  and 
of  course  he  cannot  be  President  of  the 
Senate.  The  Senate  then  appoints  one  of  then- 
own  body  President.  If,  during  a  vacancy 
in  the  office  of  Governor,  the  Lieutenant- 
Governor  shall  be  impeached  die  or  resign, 
then  the  President  of  the  Senate  who  shall 
preside  at  the  time,  vrill  be  the  Chief  Executive 
officer  of  the  State. 

Mr.  MORGAN.  The  construction  of  the 
words  in  this  section  is  similar  to  the  construc- 
tion of  similar  provisions  in  the  Constitutions 
of  the  different  States,  and  I  believe  it  is 
verbatim  the  same  as  the  section  upon  the 
same  subject  in  the  Constitution  of  the  State 
of  New  York.  The  committee  do  not  claim 
much  ori^ality  in  this  report.  Its  provisions 
have  been  copied  mainly  from  the  Consti- 
tutions of  other  States.  When  the  Governor 
dies  the  Lieutenant-Governor  becomes  Gov- 
ernor, de  facto ^  and  then  a  President  of  the 
Senate  is  chosen  by  that  body  itself,  and  he, 


in  case  of  the  death  of  the  Lieutenant- 
Governor,  becomes  Governor. 

Mr.  ALDRICH.  The  provision  in  the 
New  York  Constitution  is  in  these  words  : 

"  The  Lieutenant-Governor  shall  not  possess  the 
same  qualifications  of  eligibility  for  office  as  the 
Governor.  He  shall  be  President  of  the  Senate 
but  shall  only  have  a  casting  vote  therein.  If  dur- 
ing a  vacancy  of  the  office  of  Governor,  the  Lieu- 
tenant Governor  shall  be  impeached,  displaced, 
resign,  die,  or  be  absent  from  the  State,  the  Presi- 
dent of  the  Senate  shall  act  as  Governor,  untd  the 
vacancy  be  filled  or  the  disability  shall  cease." 

Mr.  COLBURN.  It  seems  to  me  that 
notwithstanding  that  is  taken  from  the  Con- 
stitution of  New  York,  difficulties  may  arise 
in  its  practical  working.  Perhaps  no  difficul- 
ties have  arisen  there,  but  still  a  difficulty 
may  arise  TVe  will  suppose  the  legislative 
session  has  adjourned,  and  immediately  after 
the  adjournment,  the  Governor  dies.  The 
Lieutenant  Governor  of  course  assumes  the 
position  of  Governor.  Then  the  Senate  have 
no  President.  Now  suppose  while  the  Lieu- 
tenant Governor  is  acting  as  Governor,  he  is 
impeached  or  should  die,  what  will  you  do  ? 
The  provision  says  the  President  of  the  Sen- 
ate shall  be  the  Governor;  but  the  Senate 
have  no  President  as  they  have  not  been  in 
session  since  the  death  of  the  Governor. 

Perhaps  no  such  event  as  that  has  transpired 
in  New  York  but  there  is  a  liability  of  it.  But 
I  did  not  propose  to  occupy  further  time  in 
discussion.  The  gentleman  says  that  Rhode 
Island  is  the  only  State  in  which  the  Lieuten- 
ant Governor  does  not  act  as  President  of  the 
Senate.  I  can  inform  the  gentleman  that 
Massachusetts  always  elects  a  President  of 
the  Senate,  and  she  has  a  Lieutenant  Gover- 
nor also. 

Mr.  MORGAN.  I  think  I  can  explain  the 
mode  in  which  the  difficulty  suggested  by  the 
gentleman  is  obviated.  Before  the  adjourn- 
ment of  the  Senate  of  the  New  York  Legis- 
lature, it  is  always  customary  for  the  Lieuten- 
ant Governor,  who  is  the  presiding  officer  of 
that  body,  to  withdraw  for  an  hour  or  so  be- 
fore the  adjournment,  and  a  temporary  Pres- 
ident is  always  chosen.  That  too,  I  believe, 
is  the  practice  in  the  Senate  of  the  United 
States. 

ilr.  ALDRICH.  I  would  remark  that  if 
a  majority  of  the  Senate  are  politically  op- 
posed to  the  Lieutenant  Governor,  they  can 


134 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Monday,  July  27. 


at  any  time  take  the  power  of  the  appoint- 
ment of  committees  out  of  his  hands. 

The  question  was  then  taken  upon  the 
amendment  and  it  was  not  agreed  to. 

Sec.  8.  The  Lieutenant-Governor  shall,  while 
acting  as  such,  receive  a  compensation  which  shall 
be  fixed  by  law,  and  Avhicli  shall  not  be  increased 
or  diminished  during  his  continuance  in  office. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  I  move  to  amend  that 
section  by  striking  out  the  words  "continu- 
*'  ance  in"  and  insert  in  lieu  thereof  the  words 
"  term  of." 

The  amendment  was  adopted. 

Sec.  9.  Every  bill  which  shall  have  passed  the 
Senate  and  the  House  of  Representatives,  shall, 
before  it  becomes  a  law,  be  presented  to  the  Gov- 
ernor; if  he  approve,  he  shall  sign  it;  but  if  not, 
he  shall  return  it  with  the  objections  to  that  House 
in  which  it  shall  have  originated,  who  shall  enter 
the  objections  at  large  on  their  journal,  and  pro- 
ceed to  reconsider  it.  If  after  such  reconsidera- 
tion, two-thirds  of  the  members  present  shall 
agree  to  pass  the  bill,  it  shall  be  sent,  together 
with  the  objections,  to  the  other  House,  by  which 
it  shall  likewise  be  reconsidered,  and  if  approved 
by  two-thirds  of  all  the  members  present,  it  shall 
become  a  law,  notwithstanding  the  objections  of 
the  Governor.  But  in  all  such  cases  the  votes  of 
both  Houses  shall  be  determined  by  yeas  and  nays, 
and  the  names  of  the  members  voting  for  and 
against  the  bill,  shall  be  entered  on  the  journal  of 
each  House  respectively.  If  any  bill  shall  not  be 
returned  by  the  Governor  within  three  days  (Sun- 
days excepted)  after  it  shall  have  been  presented 
to  him,  the  same  shall  be  a  law,  in  like  manner  as 
if  he  had  signed  it,  unless  the  Legislature  shall, 
by  their  adjournment,  prevent  the  return;  in 
which  case  it  shall  not  be  a  law. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  move  to  strike  out 
section  nine.  My  reason  is  this  :  that  the 
section  seems  to  me  more  properly  to  belong 
under  the  head  of  the  Legislative  Department, 
and  a  similar  section  has  been  incorporated 
into  the  report  of  the  committee  upon  that 
department.  The  duties  which  devolve  upon 
the  Governor  are  rather  legislative  than  ex- 
ecutive. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  I  want  to  know  if  the 
Governor  does  anything  but  what  is  execu- 
tive? 

Mr.  MORGAN.  It  seems  to  me  that  a 
section  defining  the  duties  of  Governor  should 
come  under  the  head  of  the  Executive  De- 
partment. That  is  the  head  under  which  tliis 
provision  is  usually  found  in  most  Constitu- 
tions, It  is  true  that  the  same  subject  has 
been  reported  upon  by  another  committee. 


The  amendment  was  not  agreed  to. 

Mr.  VAUGHN.  As  this  report  has  now 
been  gone  through  with,  I  move  to  go  back 
and  amend  the  third  section  adding  to  the 
section  the  words : 

"  The  returns  of  election  for  Governor  and  Lieu- 
tenant-Governor shall  be  made  in  such  manner  as 
shall  be  provided  by  law." 

Mr.  ALDRICH.  How  are  the  returns  to 
be  made  at  the  first  election  ? 

Mr.  COLBURN.  That  will  have  no  bear- 
ing upon  the  first  election,  and  does  not  pro- 
vide for  the  difficulties  which  arise  in  making 
the  returns  of  that  election,  and  after  that 
time  the  returns  will  have  to  be  made  accord- 
ing to  law  anyway.  I  see  no  necessity  for 
the  amendment. 

Mr.  BALCOMBE.  I  think  the  difficulty 
in  regard  to  the  first  election  can  be  obviated 
when  we  come  to  the  consideration  of  the 
schedule.  That  is  the  proper  place  for  it,  but 
tliis  is  not. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  This  Constitution  will 
be  all  the  law  we  shall  have  upon  the  matter. 

Mr.  ALDRICH.  It  seems  to  me  that  this 
amendment  would  complicate  the  difficulties. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  By  inserting  it  here,  it 
only  leaves  the  matter  open  for  future  Legis- 
latures to  prescribe  the  manner  in  which  the 
returns  shall  be  made.  It  cannot  injuriously 
effect  the  returns  of  the  first  election  of  Gov- 
ernor, because  this  constitution  will  be  the 
law  and  the  only  law  upon  the  subject. 

Mr.  BALCOMBE.  I  am  in  favor  of  the 
present  amendment,  but  gentlemen  ask  the 
question,  what  shall^be  done  with  the  returns 
of  the  first  election.  I  think  that  matter  can 
appropriately  be  considered  and  arranged  un- 
der the  head  of  Schedule.  It  should  not  be 
inserted  here  but  should  be  left  for  a  separate 
article. 

Mr.  PERKINS.  I  move,  as  an  amendment 
to  the  amendment,  the  insertion  of  the  words 
"all  elections  after  the  first."  That  will 
settle  the  question  which  has  arisen  here. 

Mr.  BALCOMBE.  I  am  opposed  to  that. 
I  still  insist  that  there  should  not  be  a  word 
in  the  body  of  the  Constitution  as  to  the 
transition  State — the  manner  in  which  we 
shall  change  our  form  of  government — until 
we  come  to  the  Schedule. 

Mr.  PERKINS.  The  original  amendment 
applies  to  all  elections  after  the  first,  and  the 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Mondat,  July  27. 


135 


question  arises  whether  it  would  have  any  ap- 
plication to  the  first  or  not.  To  save  that 
question  I  moved  my  amendment.  I  believe 
that  it  is  not  unusual  to  have  such  words  in 
Constitutions. 

The  CHAIRMAN.  The  amendment  can- 
not be  considered  imtil  it  is  passed  up  in 
writing. 

The  question  was  taken  on  Mr.  Vacgex's 
amendment  and  it  was  lost. 

Mr.  BATES.  I  move  to  amend  the  first 
section  by  inserting  after  the  word  "years," 
the  words  *'  and  until  his  successor  shall  be 
"qualified,"  so  as  to  make  the  Governor's 
office  continue  until  the  qualification  of  his 
successor. 

The  amendment  was  agreed  to. 

Mr.  PECKHAM.  I  move  to  amend  the 
ninth  section  by  striking  out  the  words  "  two- 
thirds"  wherever  they  occur,  and  insert  in 
heu  thereof  the  word  "majority"  so  as  to 
allow  a  majority  of  both  Houses  to  pass  a 
bill  over  the  Governor's  veto. 

The  amendment  was  rejected. 

Mr.  BILLINGS  moved  to  strike  out  the 
words  "  shall  have"  in  the  same  section,  so 
that  it  should  read  "  shall  retmrn  it  to  the 
"  House  in  which  it  originated." 

The  amendment  was  agreed  to. 

Mr.  MORGAN.  I  now  move  that  the  com- 
mittee rise  and  report  the  report  and  amend- 
ments to  the  Convention  with  a  recommenda- 
tion that  they  be  adopted. 

The  motion  was  carried. 

The  committee  accordingly  rose  and  through 
their  Chairman  [Mr.  NortS]  reported  back 
the  report  and  amendments,  with  a  recom- 
mendation that  they  be  adopted. 

Mr.  CLEGHORN.  I  move  that  the  report 
be  laid  upon  the  table,  and  that  it  be  made  the 
special  order  of  the  day  for  Thursday  next. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  Is  that  motion  deba- 
table? 

The  PRESIDENT.     The  Chair  thinks  not. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  I  understand  that  the 
Convention  has  accepted  the  report.  Now, 
sir,  I  do  not  rise  to  a  question  of  order,  but  I 
do  consider  it  a  great  evil  to  have  a  report, 
when  made  to  the  Convention,  lie  over  for 
several  days  before  it  is  considered.  The 
report  of  the  committee,  laid  upon  our  desks 
does  not  contain  the  amendments  which  have 
been  made  by  the  committee  of  the  Whole. 


They  are  only  in  our  memories,  as  it  were, 
and  I  submit  to  you  and  to  others,  if  it  is  not 
the  usual  and  the  better  course  to  concur  in 
the  amendments  made  in  committee  of  the 
"Whole,  immediately  upon  the  reception  of  the 
report  and  amendments?  All  these  amend- 
ments are  now  fresh  in  our  minds,  and  to 
delay  their  consideration  to  a  subsequent  day, 
is  a  loose  and  careless  way  of  doing  business^ 

Mr.  ALDRICH.  It  seems  to  me  that  while 
the  matter  is  fresh  in  our  minds  we  had  bet- 
ter go  to  work  and  dispose  of  it.  "We  have 
time  to  go  through  tliis  report  to-day.  If  we 
do  so,  we  shall  be  ready  in  the  morning  to 
take  up  something  else.  I  hope  the  gentle- 
man will  withdraw  his  motion  unless  there  is 
some  good  reason  for  it. 

Mr.  WILSON.  I  think  myself  it  is  better 
to  go  on  now. 

Mr.  CLEGHORN.  I  do  not  withdraw  the 
motion. 

The  motion  was  not  agreed  to. 

The  Convention  then  proceeded  to  the  con- 
sideration of  the  amendments  as  follows : 
First  amendment. — Insert  after  the  word  "years" 
in  the  second  line  of  the  first  section,  the  words 
"  and  until  his  successor  shall  be  appointed." 

The  amendment  was  concurred  in. 

Second  amendment. — Strike  out  the  word  "one" 
in  the  first  section,  and  insert  the  word  "  two,"  so 
as  to  require  two  years  residence  as  a  qualifier-  ^ 

tion  for  Governor, 

Mr.  MORGAN.  I  hope  the  amendment 
will  not  be  concurred  in.  It  seems  to  me 
that  the  people  of  this  State  ought  to  have  the 
privilege  of  electing  a  man  who  has  been  in 
the  State  twenty  or  twenty-two  months  if 
they  choose  to  do  so.  This  Territory  has 
been  very  recently  settled,  and  many  of  its 
inhabitants  have  been  here  but  comparatively 
a  short  time,  and  therefore  it  seems  to  me 
that  we  ought  not  to  be  restricted  to  two  years 
residence.  I  think  one  year's  residence  is 
sufficient. 

Mr.  WILSON.  I  would  rather  have  two 
years  than  one,  and  three  years  than  two. 
This  Constitution  will  probably  last  for  years, 
and  after  a  while  when  our  State  becomes 
settled,  it  will  be  impossible  for  the  people  to 
obtain  that  knowledge  of  a  candidate  for  Gov- 
ernor, who  has  been  in  the  State  one  year, 
as  will  enable  them  to  vote  intelligently.  That 
is  a  very  short  time.  Some  demagogue  may 
come  among  us  and  get  the  nomination,  whom 


136 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Monday,  July  27. 


we  are  not  acquainted  with,  and  who  ought 
not  to  be  elected. 

The  amendment  was  concurred  in. 

Third  amendment. — Strike  out  the  words  "con- 
tinuance in,"  and  insert  the  words  "term  of." 

Mr.  NORTH.  There  may  be  some  ques- 
tion whether  that  would  refer  to  the  time 
he  is  acting  as  Governor,  or  when  he  is 
in  his  position  of  Lieutenant  •  Governor. 
Should  not  the  section  read — "The  Lieu- 
tenant Governor  shall,  while  acting  "as 
Governor,  receive"  &c.  I  move  to  amend 
so  that  the  section  shall  read  in  that  manner. 

The  PKESIDENT.  The  Chair  would  sug- 
gest that  while  acting  as  Governor,  he  would 
receive  the  compensation  fixed  by  law  for 
Governor. 

Mr.  NORTH.  Then  as  there  are  no  duties 
assigned  to  the  Lieutenant  Governor,  I  shall, 
at  the  proper  time,  move  to  strike  out  the 
provisions  relating  to  that  oflBcer  entirely. 

Mr.  ALDRIOH.  The  seventh  section  pro- 
vides that  he  shall  be  President  of  the  Sen- 
ate, and  while  he  serves  in  such  capacity,  he 
shall  receive  a  salary. 

Mr.  NORTH.  I  was  under  the  impression 
that  that  provision  had  been  striken  out. 

Mr.  ALDRICH.  The  amendment  to  that 
effect  was  rejected. 

Mr.  MORGAN.  The  same  provision  as  to 
the  compensation  of  the  Governor  occurs  at 
the  end  of  the  fourth  section.  The  words  of 
that  provision  were  taken  either  from  the 
Constitution  of  New  York,  or  that  of  Wis- 
consin. It  seems  tome  that  the  words  "term 
of"  do  not  materially  alter  the  matter. 
But  there  may  be  some  question  as  to  whether 
his  "term  of  office,"  and  "continuance  in 
oflSce,"  apply  to  the  same  period  of  time. '  I 
think  it  safer  to  leave  the  matter  as  it  is  in 
the  section. 

Mr.  ST  ANN  ARD.  According  to  the  amend- 
ment which  has  been  adopted  to  the  first 
section,  the  Governor  holds  his  oJBfice  two 
years.  That  I  understand  to  be  his  term  of 
office ;  though  it  also  provides  that  he  shall 
hold  his  office  until  his  successor  shall  be 
qualified.  Now  if  the  Legislature,  during  the 
two  years  for  which  he  was  elected,  should 
increase  the  salary  of  his  successor,  and  the 
person  subsequently  elected  should  refuse  to 
qualify,  I  am  not  disposed  to  deprive  the  Gov- 
ernor who  holds  on  to  the  ofiBce,  of  the  emol- 


uments which  result  in  consequence  of  the 
additional  increased  pay  so  provided  for. 

The  amendment  was  agreed  to. 

Fourth  Amendment. — In  section  nine  strike  out 
the  words,  "  shall  have,"  so  as  to  make  the  clause 
read,  "shall  return  it  with  his  objections  to  tlie 
house  in  which  it  originated." 

Mr.  STANNARD.  I  hope  the  amendment 
will  not  prevail.  It  seems  to  me  that  the 
phraseology  is  much  better  than  it  is  now, 
and  I  am  not  entirely  clear  but  it  conveys  the 
same  idea.  I  do  not  think  a  bill  originates 
anything.  It  is  itself  originated^  and  I  think 
that  the  words,  as  they  are,  should  be 
retained. 

Mr.  MORGAN.  I  think  the  section,  as  it 
is  printed  is  gramatically  correct.  It  has 
reference  to  the  action  of  future  Legislatures, 
and  not  to  past  ones.  It  relates  to  some 
action  which  shall  have  been  performed  by 
by  some  future  Legislature. 

Mr.  WILSON.  I  hope,  by  all  means,  that 
this  amendment  will  not  be  concurred  in.  I 
think  the  section  is  correctly  worded,  and  for 
the  reasons  assigned  by  the  gentleman  who 
last  spoke.     It  says : 

"  But  if  not,  he  shall  return  it  with  his  objections 
to  that  house  in  which  it  shall  have  originated." 
— In  which  it  shall,  prior  to^that  future  time, 
have  originated.  It  is  evidently  good  gram- 
mar, and  would  not  be  if  amended. 

Mr.  ALDRICH.  I  find  the  same  words  in 
the  Constitution  of  the  United  States  in  refer- 
ence to  the  same  matter.  I  also  find  it  in  the 
Constitutions  of  New  York  and  Wisconsin. 

Mr.  PERKINS.  I  think  there  can  be  no 
doubt  but  what  there  is  a  difference  in  the 
idea  conveyed  by  the  two  expressions,  and  it 
seems  to  me  very  improper  to  concur  in  the 
amendment.  The  language  of  the  Consti- 
tution of  the  United  States  is  as  significant  as 
it  can  be,  and  it  i^  the  same  language  as  is 
contained  in  this  section. 

Mr.  BILLINGS.  I  do  not  understand  that 
the  gentlemen  who  have  undertaken  to  give 
a  grammatical  construction  to  this  language 
are  grammarians  by  any  means,  though  they 
may  have  blimdered  upon  the  truth.  But 
we  should  use,  in  all  instruments,  just  those 
words  which  convey  our  ideas  clearly,  and  no 
others.  The  ofiice  of  grammar  is  to  lop  ofT 
superfiuous  language,  and  to  convey  in  direct 
and  clear  language  our  meaning,  so  that  it 
shall  not  be  susceptible* of  any  misconception- 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Monday,  July  27. 


137 


Now  the  fact  that  the  words  "  shall  have " 
are  used  in  other  instruments,  is  no  reason,  of 
itself,  why  we  should  use  it.  "  It  originated," 
conveys  a  perfect  idea  in  itself,  and  of  course 
it  originated,  and  originated  before  it  was  sent 
to  the  Governor.  Because  the  Constitution 
of  the  United  States,  and  some  Constitutions 
of  the  States,  contain  the  words,  is  no  reason, 
in  my  judgment,  for  their  retention  here. 

These  same  gentlemen  say  we  are  pro- 
gressing, yet  they  must  go  back,  and  like 
certain  persons  in  Pennsylvania,  who,  because 
their  fathers  balanced  a  grist  on  one  side  of 
the  horse  by  putting  a  stone  on  the  other, 
forsooth  must  still  carry  a  stone  to  balance 
their  grist  now.  They  go  back  to  the  Consti- 
tution of  the  United  States,  and  say  that 
because  they  find  those  words  there,  therefore 
we  must  have  them  here. 

Mr.   SECOMBE.      I  am  opposed  to  the 
amendment  for  two  reasons.     One  is,  because 
the  language  of  the  section  appears  to  be  in 
accordance  with  the  Constitution  of  the  United 
States.     That  Constitution  was  drafted  with 
great  care,  by  men  of  learning  and  ability, 
and  we  may  natvirally  conclude  that  they 
found  the  very  best  language  that  could  be 
found.     But  that  is  not  the  principal  reason 
why  I  oppose  the  amendment.     It  is  because 
the  words  used  in  the  original  section  are  used 
in  Murray's  grammar,  and  in   every  other 
grammar  that  has  ever  been  published  since 
the  world  began,  in  exactly  the  sense  in  which 
we  propose  to  use  them.     There  are  proper 
words  for  every  place,  and  it  strikes  me  that 
the  words  used  here  are  in  accordance  with 
grammar,  and  express  the  meaning  intended. 
Mr.   STANNARD.     I  supposed  that  the 
gentleman  who  made  the  motion  to  amend, 
did  so  as  pastime,  and  to  create  fun  and 
excitement.     But  it  seems  that  he  was  in 
earnest.    Now,  sir,  I  studied  grammar  once, 
and   it  does  appear  to  me  that  whenever 
we  wish  to    express    the   idea,  which    all 
admit  we  intend  to  convey   here,  the  past 
future  tense  should  be  used.     Here  we  speak 
of  a  future  thing,  and  we  use  the  potential 
form — that  the  Grovemor  shaU  do  so  and  so 
at  a  future  time, — and  then  we  speak  of  some- 
thing which  happened  prior  to  that  future 
time  and  this  is  the  only  language  that  I  know 
of  that  win  convey  that  idea. 
The  amendment  was  rejected. 
18 


Mr.  BATES.  I  would  inquire  whether  it 
would  not  be  well  to  strike  out  the  words, 
"continuance  in"  and  insert  "term  of,"  in 
the  last  line  of  section  four,  which  applies  to 
the  Governor,  so  as  to  make  it  conform  to  the 
language  of  the  eighth  section  as  amended, 
which  applies  to  the  Lieutenant-Governor  ? 

Mr.  BILLINGS.  I  would  inquu^  of  the 
gentleman  whether  the  words,  "  continuance 
in,"  are  not  used  in  the  Constitution  of  the 
United  States.     (Laughter.). 

Mr.  STANNARD.  I  move  that  amendment. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  am  opposed  to  the 
amendment.  There  seems  to  be  great  doubt 
whether  there  is  any  difference  between  the 
two  expressions.  I  should  like  to  have  it 
remain  as  it  is,  so  that  we  may  hereafter 
obtain  the  decision  of  the  proper  tribunal  upon 
that  point. 

Mr.  WILSON.  If  I  am  elected  to  serve 
two  years  in  office,  and  serve  six  months,  six 
months  is  my  continuance  in  office,  but  two 
years  is  my  term  of  office. 

Mr.  MORGAN.  It  seems  to  me  that  there 
may  be  a  difference  of  meaning  between  the 
two  expressions.  In  the  first  section  we  have 
provided  that  the  Governor  shall  hold  his 
office  two  years,  and  until  his  successor  shall 
qualify.  He  may  then  hold  his  office  for  two 
years  and  six  months,  while  he  was  only 
elected  for  two  years,  and  his  salary  might  be 
changed  after  the  expiration  of  the  two  years, 
and  during  his  continuance  in  office. 

Mr.  BILLINGS.  I  would  refer  the  gentle- 
men to  the  language  of  article  third,  section 
first  of  the  Constitution  of  the  United  States, 
which,  speaking  of  the  Judges  of  the  Supreme 
Court,  declares  that  they  shall  receive  for 
their  services  a  compensation  which  shall  not 
be  diminished  "  during  their  continuance  in 
office."  Now  if  there  is  any  doubt,  let  us 
remove  it  by  using  both  expressions.  In  one 
section  we  have  adopted  the  words,  "term 
of;"  and  now  let  us  be  right,  anyway,  and 
retain  the  words,  "  continuance  in,"  in  the 
other  section. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  We  have  provided  that 
the  Governor  shall  hold  his  office,  not  only 
during  two  years,  but  until  his  successor  shall 
be  quaUfied.  Suppose  the  Legislatiu-e  shall 
increase  the  salary  of  the  Governor,  to  take 
effect  on  and  after  the  expiration  of  the  term 
of  the  incimibent.     Now  I  would  not  jeopard- 


138 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Monday,  July  27. 


ize  that  act  of  the  Legislature  by  allowing 
the  words,  "  continuance  in,"  to  remain  in 
the  Constitution.  The  person  who  is  obliged 
to  remain  in  office  should  have  the  emolu- 
ments of  the  office,  and  be  entitled  to  the 
increased  salary  allowed  by  the  Legislature. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  differ  with  the  gentle- 
man who  last  spoke,  as  to  what  the  term  of 
office  of  the  Governor  is.  The  language  is 
that— 

"  The  executive  power  shall  be  vested  in  a  Gov- 
ernor, who  shall  hold  his  opce  for  two  years,  and 
until  his  successor  is  qualified." 

— The  term  is  two  years  absolutely,  and 
contingently  an  additional  length  of  time.  So 
that  his  term  is  the  whole  length  of  time  he 
actually  holds  office. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  hope  the  amendment 
will  not  prevail,  and  that  we  shall  re-consider 
the  vote  by  which  we  struck  out  these  same 
words  from  the  eighth  section.  I  prefer  the 
term  used  in  the  Constitution  of  the  United 
States. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  I  caU  for  the  yeas  and 
nays  upon  the  amendment. 

The  yeas  and  nays  were  refused. 

The  amendment  was  then  rejected. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  now  move  to  recon- 
sider the  vote  by  which  the  amendment  to 
the  eighth  section  was  adopted,  striking  out 
"  continuance  in,"  and  inserting  "  term  of." 

Mr.  STANNARD.  I  do  not  want  to  tres- 
pass upon  the  patience  of  the  Convention, 
but  I  must  say  one  word  upon  this  matter. 
I  will  suppose  a  plain  case,  and  then  leave 
the  matter.  Suppose  that  the  term  of  office 
of  the  Governor  of  the  State  of  Minnesota 
expires  on  the  first  day  of  March  1865 : 
Suppose  the  next  preceding  Legislature  passes 
an  act  increasing  the  salary  of  the  Governor 
$500,  to  take  effect  the  day  after  the  next 
Governor  should  take  his  office ;  and  suppose 
the  Governor  elect  should  fail  to  qualify  at 
that  time  and  the  Governor  should  hold  over, 
now  under  the  wording  of  the  section  as  it 
originally  was, — "continuance  in  office" — 
that  law  would  be  unconstitutional,  for  the 
Legislature  cannot  increase  the  pay  during 
his  continuance  in  office.  I  submit  the  sub- 
ject to  the  candid  consideration  of  the  Con- 
vention. 

Mr.  WILSON.  That  clause  from  the 
Constitution  of  the  United  States  which  has 


been  read  here,  happens  to  be  as  inapplicable  to 
this  case,  as  something  read  from  Tom  Hood's 
ballads.  That  clause  related  to  the  Supreme 
Court  Judges  who  have  a  life  long  tenure,  or 
as  long  as  they  behave  themselves.  But  take 
the  clause  relating  to  the  President  of  the 
United  States,  and  what  is  that  ?  "  The  Pres- 
"ident  shall  at  stated  times,  receive  for  his 
"services  a  compensation  which  shall  neither 
"be  increased  or  diminished  during  the  period 
"for  which  he  was  elected" — or  during  the 
term  of  his  office, — which  are  synonimous. 

Mr.  PERKINS.  The  gi-eat  idea  which 
pervades  this  whole  matter,  whether  relating 
to  the  President  of  the  United  States  or  any 
other  officer,  is  that  as  long  as  he  exercises 
the  duties  of  his  office,  his  compensation  shall 
neither  be  increased  or  diminished.  Now  it 
seems  to  me  that  the  words  "  continuance  in," 
are  more  appropriate  than  "term  of"  and 
conveys  the  idea  that  so  long  as  he  continues 
in  office  and  performs  its  functions,  his  com- 
pensation shall  not  be  increased  or  dimin- 
ished. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  There  is  another  case 
we  may  suppose.  The  Governor  resigns  his 
office  at  the  end  of  the  first  year,  and  a  new 
incumbent  takes  his  place.  Is  there  any  rea- 
son why  his  salary  should  not  be  increased  ? 
And  yet  he  would  be  still  holding  during  a 
part  of  the  term  of  office  of  the  preceding 
Governor. 

Let  us  look  at  the  reas(Mi  of  this  provision. 
It  is  that  the  Governor  himself,  being  a  part 
of  the  law  making  power,  shall  not  increase 
his  own  salary,  by  assisting  the  Legislature 
to  pass  a  law  to  that  effect — for  every  law 
must  receive  his  sanction.  Now  the  words 
"  continuance  in  office,"  provide  for  that  con- 
tingency. If  he  leaves  the  office  before  the 
expiration  of  his  term,  the  reason  is  lost,  and 
if  he  holds  over  longer  than  two  years,  the 
reason  holds  good. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  would  inquire  whether 
the  Governor  has  tlie  power  to  resign  by  his 
own  voluntary  act  ?  The  first  section  says 
that  the  Executive  power  shall  be  vested  in  a 
Governor,  who  shall  hold  his  office  for  two 
years. 

Mr.  ALDRICII.  Section  sLxth  provides 
for  a  resignation. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  judged  from  the 
remarks    of    the    gentlemen    from    Chisago 


MIXXESOTA  COXVEXTION  DEBATES— Tcesdat,  July  28. 


189 


county,  that  it  would  hold  the  Glovemor  abso- 
lutely. If  that  is  not  the  true  meaning  of 
this  provision,  or  if  any  provision  is  made  for 
resignation,  he  cannot  be  compelled  to  remain 
in  oflBce  contrary  to  his  will,  and  receive  a 
low  salary. 

The  question  was  taken  on  the  motion  to 
reconsider,  and  it  was  decided  in  the  affirma- 
tive. 

Mr.  WILS  OX.  Have  we  a  quorum  present  ? 

The  PRESIDEXT.  That  can  only  be  de- 
termined by  ordering  a  caU  of  the  Conven- 
tion. 

Mr.  BOLLES  moved  (at  five  o'clock  and 
forty-five  minutes)  that  the  Convention  ad- 
journ. 

The  motion  was  not  agreed  to. 

The  question  then  recurring  upon  adopting 
the  amendment  to  strike  out  "  continuance 
in,"  and  insert  "  term  of" 

Mr.  STAXXARD  caUed  for  the  yeas  and 
nays,  which  were  ordered. 

The  question  was  then  put,  and  the  roll 
being  called,  no  quorum  answered  to  their 
names. 

Thereupon  on  motion  of  Mr.  LOWE,  (at 
five  o'cloc  k  and  fifty-five  minutes)  the  Con- 
vention adjourned. 


FOURTEEXTH  DAY. 

Tuesday,  July  28,  1857. 
The  Convention  met  at  nine  o'clock,  a.  m. 
Prayer  by  the  Chaplain,  E.  D.  Xeill. 
The  journal  of  yesterday  was  read  and 
approved. 

EXECrTIVE   DEPABTMEXT. 

The  first  business  imder  the  order  of  pro- 
ceedings, was  the  consideration  of  the  amend- 
ments to  the  report  of  the  committee  on  the 
Executive  Department,  reported  from  the 
committee  of  the  Whole. 

The  PRESIDEXT  stated  the  first  question 
to  be  on  the  amendment  proposed  to  the 
eighth  section,  to  strike  out  the  words,  "  con- 
"  tinuance  in,"  and  insert  "  term  of." 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  As  there  are  many  mem- 
bers present  this  morning  who  were  not  here 
during  the  discussion  yesterday  on  this 
amendment,  I  will  state  the  reasons  why  I 
opposed  the  amendment.  The  section,  as  | 
originally  proposed  by  the  committee,  provides  ! 
that  during  the  " continuance  in"  office  of  ( 


the  Lieutenant-Governor,  his  salary  shall  not 
be  increased  or  diminished.  As  I  stated 
yesterday,  there  is  a  reason  for  such  a  provision 
as  that  being  incorporated  here.  The  Lieu- 
tenant Governor,  by  the  terms  of  another 
section,  is  made  a  part  of  the  legislative 
power  of  the  State.  He  is  President  of  the 
Senate,  and  has  a  casting  vote.  Consequently 
any  law  passed  during  his  continuance  in 
office,  raising  his  salary  would  be  liable,  at 
least  to  be  passed  by  his  own  vote.  It  is 
highly  improper,  to  say  the  least,  that  an 
officer  of  the  Government  should  have  the 
privilege  of  fixing  his  own  salary.  The 
recommendation  of  the  committee  of  the 
Whole  was  to  strike  out  the  words  "  continu- 
"ancein,"  and  insert  ''term  of."  The  only 
difference  which  would  be  made  by  that 
amendment,  as  I  can  see,  would  be  this :  the 
words,  "  term  of,"  would  apply  to  the  whole 
term  for  which  the  Lieutenant-Governor  was 
originally  elected,  and  that  would  be,  accord- 
ing to  the  first  section,  two  years  absolutely, 
and  contingently,  an  additional  length  of  time. 
Consequentiy  the  salary  of  that  officer  could 
neither  be  increased  or  diminished  during  that 
term,  whether  he  occupied  it  all  the  time,  or 
some  other  person  took  his  place.  As  the 
matter  now  stands,  in  case  of  the  removal, 
resignation,  or  other  disability  of  that  officer, 
during  that  term,  it  would  allow  the  incum- 
bent of  the  remaining  portion  of  the  term  to 
receive  the  benefits  of  the  salary  which  might 
have  been  increased  during  the  first  part  of 
the  term.  I  see  no  reason  why  that  should 
not  be  the  case,  because  the  reason  of  the 
rule  being  gone,  the  rule  itself  has  lost  its 
efficacy.  The  Lieutenant-Governor  who  had 
a  part  in  passing  that  law  ha\Tng  gone  out  of 
office,  the  new  man  coming  in  to  fill  the 
balance  of  the  term,  would  rightfully  receive 
that  salary.  Those  are  the  reasons  which 
induced  me  to  vote  as  I  did  yesterday,  and 
which  I  hope  will  induce  the  Convention  to 
vote  against  the  amendment. 

The  amendment  was  not  agreed  to. 

Mr.  BILLIXGS.     I  move  to  strike  out 
from  the  seventh  section  the  words  : 

"  He  shall  be  President  of  the  Senate,  but  shall 
have  a  casting  rote  therein." 

— I  made  that  motion  yesterday,  but  I  renew 
it  to-day  because  there  are  many  present  now 
who  were  not  here  then. 


140 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Tuesday,  July  28, 


Mr.  BATES.  I  hope  it  wiU  not  prevaU. 
If  we  are  to  have  a  Lieutenant-Governor,  I 
do  not  see  why  all  power  should  be  taken 
from  him.  It  is  customary  in  almost  every 
State  of  the  Union  for  the  Lieutenant-Gover- 
nor to  be  President  of  the  Senate. 

The  amendment  was  not  agreed  to. 

Mr.  MORGAN.  I  move  that  the  report  be 
now  read  a  third  time  and  put  upon  its 
passage. 

The  PRESIDENT.  The  Chair  would  state 
that  it  cannot  be  done  without  a  suspension 
of  the  rules.  Before  that  is  done,  it  is  usual 
to  have  a  bill  or  report  properly  engrossed. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  I  rise  to  a  question  of 
order.  One  of  our  rules  requires  that  the 
third  reading  shall  be  upon  a  day  subsequent 
to  the  first  and  second  reading.  Hence  it 
cannot  be  read  a  third  time  to-day. 

The  PRESIDENT.  The  point  of  order  is 
well  taken,  and  it  can  only  be  read  now  under 
a  suspension  of  the  rules. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  move  that  it  be  ordered 
to  be  engi-ossed  for  a  third  reading. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  I  would  enquire  if 
there  is  an  Engrossing  committee  ? 

The  PRESIDENT.     There  is  not. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  Then  I  move  to  amend 
the  motion  so  as  to  refer  it  to  the  committee 
Vhich  reported  it,  for  engrossment. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  accept  of  that  amend- 
ment, if  that  is  the  proper  method.  Perhaps 
it  is  the  duty  of  the  Secretary  to  perform  that 
service. 

Mr.  MORGAN.  I  would  enquire  if  the 
report  should  not  be  referred  to  the  committee 
on  Arrangement  and  Phraseology,  before  it  is 
engrossed. 

.  The  PRESIDENT.  The  report  should  be 
engrossed,  read  a  third  time  and  passed, 
before  reference  to  that  committee. 

The  report  was  then  referred  back  to  the 
committee  on  the  Executive  Department  for 
engrossment. 

PROPOSITION    OF   CONGRESS. 

On  motion  of  Mr.  SECOMBE,  the  Convcn- 
tion  resolved  itself  into  a  committee  of  the 
Whole  on  the  report  of  the  committee  on 
Public  Property  and  Expenditures,  (Mr. 
Vaughn  in  the  chair.) 

The  report  was  read  as  follows  : 


The  Committee  on  Public  Property  and  Expendi- 
tures, to  whom  was  referred  a  resolution  in 
relation  to  the  propositions  of  Cona;ress  con- 
tained in  the  fifth  section  of  the  Enabling  Act, 
and  the  subject  matter  thereof,  have  given  their 
consideration  to  the  same,  and  beg  leave  to 
report  the  accompanying  draft  of  an  article  on 
the  said  subject ;  and  ask  leave  to  report  at  a 
future  time  on  the  other  matters  properly  com- 
ing before  them. 

The  propositions  contained  in  the  fifth  section  of 
the  act  of  Congreas,  entitled  "  An  Act  to  authorize 
the  people  of  the  Territory  of  Minnesota  to  form 
a  Constitution  and  State  Government  preparatory 
to  their  admission  into  the  Union  on  an  equal 
footing  with  the  original  States,"  and  each  of  the 
same  are  hereby  freely  accepted,  ratified  and  con- 
firmed ;  and  it  is  hereby  ordained,  irrevocably 
without  the  consent  of  the  United  States,  that  the 
State  of  [Minnesota  shall  never  interfere  with  the 
primary  disposal  of  the  soil  within  the  same,  by 
the  United  States,  or  with  any  regulations  Con- 
gress may  find  necessary  for  securing  the  title  in 
said  soil  to  lona  fide  purchasers  thereof;  and  that 
no  tax  shall  be  imposed  on  land  belonging  to  the 
United  States,  and  that  in  no  case  shall  non- 
resident proprietors  be  taxed  higher  than  residents. 

No  amendment  being  offered, — on  motion 
of  Mr.  SECOMBE,  the  committee  rose,  and 
reported  the  article  to  the  Convention  with  a 
recommendation  that  it  be  adopted. 

Mr.  WILSON.  I  do  not  hke  the  form  of 
the  article,  at  first  sight,  I  think  that  the  pro- 
position of  Congress,  accepted  by  this  article, 
should  have  been  written  out  in  full.  It  re- 
fers to  another  document  to  ascertain  what 
those  propositions  are,  and  if  we  want  to  see 
them  we  must  refer  to  that  other  document 
which  is  in  no  wise  connected  with  this.  In 
Iowa,  which  came  into  the  Union  under  an 
Enabling  Act  similar  to  ours,  they  set  out  the 
propositions  in  full,  and  then  declared  specifi- 
cally that  they  adopted  those  propositions.  I 
think  that  would  be  the  proper  course  in  this 
case. 

Mr.  MURPHY.  I  move  that  the  article 
be  laid  on  the  table. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to. 

BOUNDARIES   OP  THE   STATE. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  move  that  the  Con- 
vention resolve  itself  into  a  committee  of  the 
AVliole,  to  consider  the  report  of  the  commit- 
tee upon  Boundaries. 

Mr.  WILSON.  I  am  not  inclined  to  ask 
favors,  but  I  will  state  why  I  shall  do  so  in 
tliis  instance.  I  have  been  unable  to  find  a 
map  in  this  city  giving  our  Territory,  surveyed 
and   unsurveyed,  in  full.     As  a  member  of 


MIN^^SOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Tlesday,  Jult  28. 


Ul 


that  committee,  and  the  only  one  who  dis- 
sented to  the  boundaries  laid  down  in  that 
report,  I  wish  to  make  a  minority  report,  and 
I  ask  the  Convention  to  grant  me  the  favor  of 
passing  the  subject  over  to-day,  to  allow  me 
time  to  make  that  report,  so  that  it  can  be  ac- 
ted upon  with  the  majority  report.  It  will 
not  delay  our  proceedings  as  we  have  plenty 
other  business  to  occuyy  our  attention. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  decline  to  withdraw 
my  motion.  Ample  time  has  elapsed  since 
that  report  was  made  to  enable  the  gentle- 
man to  make  a  minority  report. 

Mr.  WILSON.  I  will  state  that  I  will 
make  that  report  to-morrow,  whether  I  get  a 
map  or  not. 

Mr.  NORTH.  I  hope  the  request  will  be 
granted. 

The  motion  was  not  agreed  to,  and  the  re- 
port was  laid  over. 

BASKIXG   COBPOBATIOXS,  AC. 

On  motion  of  Mr.  MORGAN,  the  Conven- 
tion resolved  itself  into  a  committee  of  the 
Whole  upon  the  report  of  the  committee 
upon  Banking  and  Corporations  other  than 
Municipal, — Mr.  Hollet  in  the  Chair.  (For 
report,  see  proceedings  July  twenty-fourth.) 

The  report  was  read  by  sections,  and  the 
following  proceedings  took  place : 

Sec.  2.  If  a  general  banking  law  shall  be  en- 
acted, it  shall  provide  for  the  registry  and  coan- 
tersigning,  by  an  oflScer  of  State,  of  all  bills  or 
paper  credit,  designed  to  circulate  as  money,  and 
require  security  to  the  full  amount  thereof,  to  be 
deposited  with  the  State  Treasurer,  in  United 
States  Stocks,  or  in  interest  paying  stocks  of 
States  in  good  credit  and  standing,  to  be  rated  at 
ten  per  cent,  below  their  average  value  in  the  City 
of  New  York,  for  the  thirty  days  next  preceding 
their  deposit ;  and  in  case  of  a  depreciation  of  any 
portion  of  such  stocks,  to  the  amount  of  ten  per 
cent,  on  the  dollar,  the  bank  or  banks  owning  said 
stocks,  shall  be  required  to  maktf  up  such  defi- 
cienncy  by  depositing  additional  stocks ;  and  said 
law  shall  also  provide  for  the  recording  of  the 
names  of  all  stockholders  in  such  corporations, 
the  amount  of  stock  held  by  each,  the  time  of 
transfer,  and  to  whom. 

Mr.  CLEGHORN  offered  the  following 
amendment : 

"  Strike  out  all  after  the  word  '  enacted'  and  in- 
sert the  following:  'The  Legislature  shall  pro- 
vide by  law  for  the  registry  of  all  bills  or  notes  is- 
sued or  put  in  circulation  as  money,  and  shall  re- 
quire ample  security  for  the  redemption  of  the 
suae  in  specie.'  " 


Mr.  BATES.  I  hope  the  amendment  wfll 
not  be  adopted.  I  am  aware  that  our  Terri- 
tory wish  for  banks,  but  they  wish  for  those  * 
in  which  they  can  have  confidence,  and  with 
such  security  that  they  can  feel  perfectly  safe. 
We  know  very  well  tlie  result,  to  our  West- 
€!m  States  generally,  of  having  banks  with- 
out having  ample  security.  Adopt  the  amend- 
ment proposed  and  I  do  not  believe  our 
people  will  feel  safe.  I  believe  the  result 
would  be  very  injurious  to  our  banking  sys- 
tem as  a  whole,  and  hence  I  am  opposed  to  it. 

Mr.  LOWE.  I  hope  the  amendment  will 
be  adopted,  or  something  similar  to  it.  It 
seems  to  me  that  the  provision  proposed  by 
the  committee  is  obnoxious  to  the  same  ob- 
jection which  has  been  made  to  many  other 
provisions  reported  by  other  committees — 
that  it  infringes  upon  the  legislative  depart- 
ment of  the  government.  I  think  if  there  is 
any  error  which  this  Convention  can  commit, 
and  which  will  be  just  ground  for  impeaching 
its  action,  it  is  that  of  infringing  upon  the 
duties  of  the  other  department  of  the  gov- 
ernment. There  seems  to  be  a  tendency  in 
this  Convention  to  do  so,  and  perhaps  they 
will  do  it  at  all  hazards.  So  far  as  I  am  con- 
cerned I  dissent  from  any  such  proceedings. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  hope  the  amendment 
wiU  not  prevail.  This  section  was  incorpo- 
rated into  the  report  by  the  unanimous  con- 
sent of  the  committee,  though  not  originally 
in  accordance  with  the  unanimous  feelings  of 
the  committee.  I  think  if  there  is  any  one 
point  which  we  should  guard  more  than  all 
others,  in  framing  a  Constitution  to  be  sub- 
mitted to  the  people  for  acceptance  or  rejec- 
tion, it  is  this  one.  It  is  well  known  that  in 
the  new  States  great  diflBculty  has  been  ex- 
perienced in  regard  to  the  institution  of  banks, 
and  that  great  objection  has  been  made  to 
any  banking  system.  But  that  has  resulted 
not  from  any  objection  which  people  had  to 
banks,  but  to  the  tmfortunate  system  of 
banking  which  has  prevailed  throughout  the 
western  world.  That  opposition  has  been 
carried  so  far  that  in  Wisconsin  it  was  provided 
in  their  Constitution  that  no  banking  system 
should  ever  be  adopted  by  the  Legislature, 
tmta  they  had  first  submitted  to  the  people 
the  direct  proposition  of  "  banks  or  no  banks," 
and  further,  after  they  had  determined  that 
it  wa.s  their  wish  either  to  have  a  general 


142 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Tuesday,  July  28. 


banking  law,  or  special  bank  charters,  that  no 
such  sj^stem  or  special  charter  should  take 
effect  until  it  had  been  first  submitted  to  a 
direct  vote  of  the  people. 

In  Iowa  there  has  been  a  constitutional  pro- 
vision against  banks ;  but  their  Constitution, 
recently  framed,  authorizes  their  Legislature 
to  incorporate  banks.  It  is  from  that  Con- 
stitution that  the  article  under  consideration 
has  been  taken  in  all  its  material  features. 
The  great  necessity  of  a  revision  of  the  Con- 
stitution of  Iowa  resulted  from  this  very  sub- 
ject, and  the  main  feature,  in  the  revised  Con- 
stitution, which  is  to  be  submitted  to  the 
people  next  month,  'for  adoption,  is  this  bank- 
ing question. 

Now,  Mr.  President,  while  I  am  satisfied 
that  a  large  majority  of  the  people  of  the  pro- 
posed States  are  in  favor  of  some  system  of 
banking,  I  am  equally  well  satisfied  that  they 
will  look  with  the  closest  scrutiny  upon  that 
system,  and  that  they  will  demand  that  the 
Legislature,  if  they  are  authorized  to  enact 
either  a  general  banking  law,  or  special  char- 
ters, shall  be  bound  by  the  strictest  provis- 
ions. They  will  demand  that  the  grant  of 
that  power  to  the  Legislature,  shall  itself  se- 
cure a  safe  system.  The  proposition  of  the 
gentleman  from  Fillmore  County  (Mr.  Cleg- 
horn)  is  a  very  good  proposition.  It  pro- 
vides that  there  shall  be  ample  security. 
Now  no  one  wants  anything  more  than  ample 
security,  but  the  people  of  the  proposed  State 
want  to  know,  before  they  vote  for  banks 
what  that  security  is  to  be.  I  believe  they 
will  be  afraid  to  trust  that  important  matter 
to  the  Legislature,  and  that  if  we  adopt  a  sys- 
tem liable  to  the  objection  that  that  proposi- 
tion is  open  to,  it  will  meet  with  the  disap- 
probation of  the  people  of  the  proposed 
State. 

I  know  that  there  is  a  class  of  citizens  who 
will  be  very  hostile  to  the  system  which  we 
have  proposed.  Who  compose  that  class? 
Are  they  the  farmers,  the  mechanics,  the 
tradesmen  ?  Are  they  a  larger  proport'on  of 
the  people  who  are  to  live  under  this  provis- 
ion ?  Assuredly  not.  They  arc  those  who 
embark  in  the  business  of  banking,  for  the 
purpose  of  making  more  money  in  that  way 
than  they  can  in  any  other.  Now  that  is 
very  laudable,  and  I  have  no  objection  that 
the  man  of  means  should  make  just  as  much 


money  out  of  his  capital  as  he  can,  provided 
he  does  not  do  it  at  my  expense  and  risk,  I 
am  aware  that  this  provision  will  not  leave 
them  a  chance  to  make  money  enough,  and 
consequently  they  will  turn  their  money  into 
some  other  channel.  Very  well,  let  them  turn 
their  capital  in  some  other  direction  where 
they  can  make  more  money,  but  less  poor  men. 

I  propose  briefly  to  consider  the  provisions 
of  this  second  section.  In  the  first  place  it 
provides  that  if  "  a  general  banking  law  shall 
"be  enacted,  it  shall  provide  for  the  registry 
"  and  countersigning,  by  an  officer  of  State,  of 
"  all  bills  or  paper  credit,  designed  to  circu- 
"late  as  money."  Now  the  proposition  of 
the  gentleman  from  Fillmore  county  makes 
no  such  proposition  as  that.  The  term  "  ample 
security,"  which  he  uses,  implies  that  the 
Legislature  may  use  their  discretion  in  that 
matter.  Now  I  believe  that  no  very  respec- 
table number  of  the  members  of  this  Conven- 
tion will  be  willing  to  waive  the  requirements 
of  a  registiy  and  countersigning  of  all  bills 
that  are  to  be  issued. 

It  requires  in  the  next  place,  that  the  Le- 
gislature shall  "require  security  to  the  full 
"  amount  thereof  to  be  deposited  with  the  State 
"  Treasurer."  I  trust  that  no  man  here,  and 
that  no  honest  and  respectable  banker,  will 
object  to  that.  The  banker  has  the  benefit  of 
sending  out  his  own  promissory  notes  upon 
the  community,  and  of  receiving  his  rates  of 
interest  for  the  loan  of  them,  and  certainly 
he  cannot  object  to  providing  security  for 
those  notes. 

But  it  is  provided  further,  that  this  secu- 
rity shall  be  in  "  United  States  Stocks,  or  in 
"  interest  paying  stocks  of  States  in  good 
"  credit  and  standing,  to  be  rated  at  ten  per 
"  cent,  below  their  average  value  in  the  City 
"  of  New  York,  for  the  thirty  days  next  pre- 
"  ceeding  their  deposit."  Now  if  there  is  any 
necessity  of  having  any  security,  there  is  an 
equal  necessity  for  having  good  security. 
This  is  not  a  mere  matter  of  form.  This  secu- 
rity is  to  lie  in  readiness  to  apply  to  the  pay- 
ment of  those  notes  in  case  of  a  failure  on  tlie 
part  of  the  maker  to  meet  them,  so  that  if 
you,  Mr.  Chairman,  should  hold  the  note  of  a 
broken  bank  for  five  dollars,  you  would  be 
able  to  get  your  five  dollars  in  full. 

But  it  is  said,  that  in  order  to  bank  under 
this  provision,  for  every  ten  thousand  dollar* 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Tlesdat,  Jult  28. 


143 


capital,  the  banker  has  to  lie  out  of  one  thou- 
sand dollars.  In  other  words,  that  if  he  buys 
ten  tliousand  dollars  worth  of  par  stock,  he 
can  only  send  out  nine  thousand  doUars  worth 
of  notes.  Now  there  is  a  very  good  reason 
for  that.  Suppose  he  sends  out  nine  thou- 
sand dollars  worth  of  notes  and  by-and-bye 
fails ;  there  is  the  ten  per  cent,  to  pay  the 
expenses  of  winding  up  the  concern,  so  that 
the  individuals  who  hold  those  notes  may 
receive  their  nine  thousand  ddlars  in  full.  If 
the  bank  had  deposited  only  nine  thousand 
dollars  worth  of  stocks,  there  certainly  would 
be  a  loss. 

The  next  provision  is  that  "  in  case  of  a  de- 
"  preciation  of  any  portion  of  such  stocks, 
"  to  the  amoimt  of  ten  per  cent,  on  the  dol- 
"  lar,  the  bank  or  banks  owning  said  stocks, 
"  shall  be  required  to  make  up  such  deficiency 
"by  depositing  additional  stocks."  A  very 
necessary  provision,  if  it  is  intended  that  it 
should  amount  to  anything,  and  for  the  same 
reason  that  is  necessary  that  the  stocks 
should  be  rated  at  a  less  amount  than  their 
par  value  in  the  first  instance. 

The  last  provision  is  that  "said  law  shall 
"  also  provide  for  the  recording  of  the  names  i 
"  of  all  stockholders  in  such  corporations,  the  i 
"  amount  of  stock  held  by  each,  the  time  of  : 
"  transfer,  and  to  whom."     A  very  necessary  ' 
provision  taken  in  connection  with  a  subse-  ■< 
quent  one,  contained  in  section  four,  which 
provides  for  the  individual  liability  of  stock- 
holders in  addition   to  the   security  already  i 
provided.  \ 

Now,  Mr.  Chairman,  as  a  member  of  the  j 
the  committee    to   whom    this    matter  was  I 
referred,  and  as  a  member  of  this  Convention,  | 
I  am  imwilling  to  send  out  to  the  people  of  i 
Minnesota  a  Constitution  imless  it  contains  ' 
some  provision  equivalent  to  this.     I  believe  j 
it  would  be  reuinons  to  the  Constitution,  and  i 
that  it  would  be  unwise  and  imsafe.     I  there-  ! 
fore  hope  the  amendment  will  not  prevail.         j 
The  amendment  was  rejected. 
Mr.   COLBURN.     I  move  to  amend  by 
striking  out  all  between  the  word  "  require," 
in  the  third  line,  and  the  word  "  and,"  in  the 
eleventh  line,  and  insert  in  place  thereof  as  fol- 
lows : 

"Ample  collateral  security,  easily  convertible 
into  specie,  to  be  deposited  with  the  State  Treas- 
urer, for  the  redemption  of  all  such  paper  credit, 


and  shall  provide  foi'  the  election  of  three  ban* 

commissioners,  a  part  of  whose  duty  it  shall  be  to 

examine,   and  decide  upon  the  sufficiency  of  all 

security  offered  for  deposit ;  and  they  shall  rate 

such    securities    at    least    fifty   p«r    cent,   below 

I  their  real  value,  and  in  case  of  a  depreciation  of 

I  any  portion  of  such  securities  to  the  amount  of 

\  twenty  per  cent,  on  the  doUar,  they  shall  require 

j  the  bank  or  banks  owing  such  securities  to  deposit 

additional  securities." 

As  a  member  of  tiie  committee  which  made 
this  report,  it  may  be  expected  that  I  should 
assign  some  reason  for  now  ofieringan  amend- 
ment to  that  report.  Although  the  gentle- 
man who  has  just  taken  his  seat  remarked 
that  the  report  was  made,  by  the  unanimous 
consent  of  the  committee,  it  did  not  coincide 
with  the  views  of  all  the  members.  I  did 
not  wish  to  make  a  minority  report,  but 
choose  to  ofier  an  amendment  at  the  proper 
time. 

I  am  in  favor  of  giving  all  necessary  secu- 
rity to  bill  holders,  and  of  protecting  the 
conmivmity  under  any  banking  system.  As 
remarked  by  the  gentleman  from  St.  Anthony, 
(Mr.  Secombe),  I  believe  the  people  of  the 
proposed  State  will  actually  require  a  banking 
system  for  the  issue  of  paper  currency,  upon 
some  basis  or  other.  The  quostion  arises 
then,  how  can  such  a  system  be  established, 
giving  suflBcient  security  to  the  commimity, 
and  at  the  same  time  holding  out  suflBcient 
inducement  to  capitalists  to  engage  in  it. 
Under  the  provisions  of  this  section,  it  seems 
to  me  there  will  be  very  little  inducement  for 
years  to  come,  for  men  of  capital  to  engage  in 
banking  business.  It  requires  that  they  shall 
deposite  with  the  State  Treasurer  security  to 
the  amoimt  of  their  issues  in  United  States 
stocks,  or  of  paying  stocks  of  States  in  good 
credit,  to  be  rated  at  ten  per  cent,  below  their 
average  value  for  thirty  days  next  preceeding 
their  deposite.  And  then  in  addition  to  that, 
they  of  course  must  have  specie  in  their 
vaults  to  redeem  their  paper  as  presented. 
Take  the  basis  supposed  by  the  gentleman 
for  an  illustration.  With  a  capital  of  ten 
thousand  dollars,  only  nine  thousand  dollars 
of  paper  could  be  issued,  and  then,  besides 
that,  the  banker  would  be  obliged  to  keep  two 
or  three  thousand  dollars  of  specie  to  redeem 
paper  as  presented.  Here  then  would  be  a 
capital  of  thirteen  thousand  dollars  invested 
for  the  purpose  of  issuing    nine   thousand 


144 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Tuesday,  July  28. 


dollars  in  bills.  Now  I  do  not  believe  our 
capitalists  in  Minnesota  will  be  induced  to 
sell  their  real  estate  at  the  present  time,  or 
for  some  time  to  come,  and  invest  their 
money  in  United  States  or  State  stocks  to 
deposit  with  the  Secretary  of  State  as  security 
for  banking  business.  It  seems  to  u;e  that 
the  proposition  I  have  offered  wUl  give  ample 
security,  and  all  that  can  reasonably  be  asked 
for  by  the  community  for  the  paper  which 
shall  be  issued.  It  provides  that  such  collat- 
eral security  shall  be  rated  at  least  fifty  per 
cent,  below  its  real  value  by  three  Bank 
Commissioners  to  bo  chosen,  whose  duty  it 
shall  be  to  look  at  the  banking  interest  of  the 
State.  If,  in  the  course  of  their  duties,  they 
find  those  securities  have  depreciated  in  value 
twenty  per  cent.,  they  shall  require  the  bank 
owning  such  securities  to  deposit  addditional 
security,  so  that  the  community  shall  be  con- 
tinuously safe. 

I  am  aware  that  it  wUl  be  objected  to  this 
kind  of  security,  that  those  Bank  Commis- 
sioners are  men  who  in  times  of  pohtical 
excitement,  and  perhaps  at  other  times,  may 
be  bought,  or  induced  in  some  way  or  another 
to  act  in  the  discharge  of  their  duties,  for  the 
interest  of  the  capitalists,  and  to  the  injury  of 
the  community.  In  other  words,  that  they 
may  be  corrupted,  and  will  not  do  their  duty 
as  prescribed  by  the  Constitution  and  the 
laws.  Now  I  am  in  favor  of  throwing 
around  all  our  State  oflScers  all  necessary 
guards  and  restrictions,  but  I  think  there  is 
manifested  in  this  Convention  too  much 
suspicion,  and  the  idea  seems  to  pervade  the 
minds  of  some  that  we  are  the  only  pure  and 
immaculate  body  which  will  ever  assemble  in 
this  capitol,  and  that  tliose  who  come  after  us 
will  be  corrupt,  and  that  the  officers  of  the 
people  are  not  to  be  trusted  in  the  remotest 
degree,  if  we  can  restrict  them.  I  am  in 
favor  of  leaving  something  to  the  people,  and 
something  to  the  officers  of  the  people.  The 
only  way  in  which  we  can  establish  a  banking 
system  at  all,  is  to  leave  something  to  the 
people  hereafter.  I  desire  to  have  the  system 
80  arragned  that  the  capitalists  of  our  own 
State  will  engage  in  it.  If  the  original  section 
is  adopted,  and  we  have  banks  at  all,  the 
capital  will  be  owned  by  persons  not  residing 
in  our  State,  but  by  those  living  in  other 
States  who  are  not  bore,  and  cannot  be  here 


to  engage  in  the  speculations  which  are  more 
lucrative  than  banking.  Capitalists  from  New 
York,  Philadelphia,  and  Boston  may  possibly 
be  induced  to  engage  in  banking  under  such 
a  law,  and  to  the  exclusion  of  capitalists  liv- 
ing in  our  State. 

I  do  not  desire  to  discuss  the  report  now 
at  length,  but  I  want  to  hear  the  views  of 
other  gentlemen  upon  it ;  and  hereafter  I  shall 
move  to  re-commit  this  report  to  the  commit- 
tee in  which  it  originated. 

Mr.  FOSTER.  I  confess  that  this  matter 
has  taken  me  somewhat  by  surprise.  In 
taking  a  first  glance  at  this  report,  I  must  say 
that  I  think  we  are  entering  upon  a  very  dan- 
gerous and  doubtful  experiment.  If  this  arti- 
cle is  adopted,  we  prescribe  the  details  of  a 
banking  law,  upon  which  there  are  as  many 
opinions  perhaps  as  there  are  capitalists.  To 
say  at  this  time,  what  our  banking  system 
shall  be  three  or  four  years  hence,  I  regard  as 
exceedingly  premature.  The  attempt  to 
establish  a  permanent  banking  system  now, 
must  result,  as  every  such  attempt  has  re- 
sulted in  new  communities,  in  disaster  and 
loss,  and  the  general  breaking  up  of  confi- 
dence in  the  community.  "VVe  should  be 
exceedingly  cautious  in  our  action  upon  this 
matter  at  the  present  time. 

Another  thing,  it  is  exceedingly  doubtful 
whether  it  is  good  policy,  to  legislate,  in  a  Con- 
stitution which  we  are  to  submit  for  the  adop- 
tion of  the  people,  upon  subjects  on  which 
there  are  such  diverse  opinions.  "VVe  had 
better  adopt  a  general  article,  authorizing  tho 
establishment  of  a  banking  system  by  the 
Legislature,  after  the  submission  of  the  ques- 
tion to  the  people  whether  they  will  or  will  not 
have  such  a  system.  That  appears  to  me  to 
be  the  safer  course.  It  was  adopted  in  Wis- 
consin when  they  framed  their  Constitution. 
They  waited  there  until  the  people  were 
ready  to  have  banks,  and  when  the  people 
had  so  expressed  their  wish,  a  system  was 
adopted  which  is  probably  the  best  one  in 
existence.  And  when  that  system  was  es- 
tablished by  the  Legislature,  it  was  again 
submitted  to  the  people,  and  they  ratified  it. 
I  think  we  had  better  pursue  the  same  course, 
under  the  peculiar  circumstances  in  which 
we  are  placed. 

The  amendment  was  not  agreed  to. 

Mr.  LOWE.     T  move  that  tho  report  be 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Tuesday,  Jult  28. 


145 


recommitted  to  the  Committee  which  reported 
it,  with  instructions  that  they  report  for  tlie 
consideration  of  the  Convention  a  provision 
similar  to  that  contained  in  the  Constitution  of 
Wisconsin. 

Mr.  FOSTER.  I  second  tliat  motion,  but 
before  it  is  put  I  will  read  the  clause  in  the 
"Wisconsin  Constitution : 

"  The  Legislature  shall  not  have  power  to  cre- 
ate, authorize,  or  incorporate,  by  any  general  or 
special  law,  any  bank,  or  banking  power  or  privi- 
lege, or  any  institution  or  corporation  having  any 
banking  power  or  privilege  whatever,  except  as 
provided  in  this  article. 

"The  Legislature  may  submit  to  the  votes  at  any 
general  election,  the  question  of  "bank  or  no 
bank,"  and  if  at  any  such  election  a  number  of 
votes  equal  to  a  majority  of  all  the  votes  cast  at 
such  election  oa  that  subject  shall  be  in  favor  of 
banks,  then  the  Legislature  shall  have  power  to 
grant  bank  charters.  Or  to  pass  a  general  banking 
law,  with  such  restrictions  and  under  such  regula- 
tions as  they  may  deem  expedient  and  proper  for 
the  security  of  the  bill-holder.  Proiidid,  that  no 
Such  grant  or  law  shall  have  any  force  or  eflfect 
until  the  same  shall  have  been  submitted  to  a  vqte 
of  the  electors  of  the  State  at  some  general  Elec- 
tion, and  been  approved  by  a  majority  of  the  votes 
cast  on  that  subject  at  such  election." 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  am  opposed  to  this  mo- 
tion for  two  reasons,  the  first  is,  that  we  have 
not  yet  discovered  that  there  is  objection,  to 
any  considerable  extent,  to  the  present  report 
of  the  committee.  Two  propositions  have 
been  made  to  amend  section  second,  and  they 
have  received  but  a  slight  support.     Again — 

Mr.  WILSON.  I  rise  to  a  question  of 
order.  Is  it  in  order  in  committee  of  the 
Whole,  to  move  to  commit  to  a  committee  ? 

The  CHAIRMAN.     It  is  not. 

Mr.  LOWE.  Then  I  move  that  the  com- 
mittee rise  and  report  the  report  to  the  Con- 
vention \vith  a  recommendation  that  it  be 
recommitted  to  the  committee  from  which  it 
came,  with  the  instructions  I  before  men- 
tioned; 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  supposed  that  such  was 
the  purport  of  the  gentleman's  motion.  It 
does  not  seem  to  me  that  it  would  be  justice 
to  the  cammittee  which  has  had  tlie  subject 
under  consideration,  and  have  made  their 
report,  to  summarily  refer  it  back  to  them 
when  we  have  had  no  great  amount  of  objec- 
tion made  to  it. 

I  also  am  opposed  to  the  motion  because  it 
gives  directions  to  that  committee  what  par- 
19 


ticular  report  to  make.  I  object  to  it  again 
because  I  am  opposed  to  the  system  which  it 
is  proposed  the  banking  committee  shall 
report. 

As  I  said  when  I  was  up  before,  I  am  sat- 
isfied that  the  people  of  the  proposed  State 
want  banks,  and  that,  too,  immediately,  and 
I  would  not  be  willing  to  subject  them  to  the 
necessity  of  waiting  until  the  matter  could 
be  submitted  twice  to  themselves.  The  Wis- 
consin Constitution,  provides  that  the  Legis- 
lature shall  have  no  power  to  pass  any  bank 
charter,  or  pass  any  general  banking  law, 
until  they  had  ordered — 

Mr.  STANNARD.  I  rise  to  a  point  of 
order.  A  motion  that  the  committee  rise, 
according  to  our  rules,  must  be  decided  with- 
out debate. 

Mr.  WILSON.  I  rise  to  «  point  of  order. 
Was  there  not  a  motion  pending  before  the 
conunittee  when  the  motion  to  rise  was  made ; 
and  is  it  not  therefore  out  of  order  now  ? 

The  CHAIRMAN.  I  prefer  to  leave  the 
committee  to  decide  the  question  whether  the 
gentleman  who  is  speaking  is  in  order. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  would  like  to  speak  to 
that  point  of  order  before  it  is  decided. 

Mr.  LOWE.     I  withdraw  my  motion. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  I  make  the  molaon 
that  the  co.^/imittee  rise  and  report  the  report 
to  tlie  Convention  with  a  recommendation 
that  it  be  recommitted  to  the  Standing  Com- 
mittee. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.     Is  the  motion  debatable  ? 

The  CHAIRMAN.     The  Chak  thinks  not. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  It  is  not  a  simple  motion 
to  rise,  but  is  coupled  with  other  matter. 

The  C  H AIRMAN.  The  Chau-  understands 
that,  according  to  the  rule,  it  must  be  decided 
without  debate. 

Mr.  WILSON.  I  rise  to  a  question  of 
order.  Is  not  a  motion  that  the  committee 
rise,  tlie  same  to  the  committee  of  the  Whole, 
that  a  motion  to  adjourn  is  to  the  Convention  ? 

The  CHAIRMAN.     The  Chau-  thinks  it  is. 

Mr.  WILSON.  Well  a  motion  to  adjovim, 
with  anything  else  attached  to  it  loses  its 
privilege,  and  becomes  debatable  like  every 
other  motion.  A  motion  therefore  that  the 
committee  rise,  with  another  matter  attached 
to  it,  loses  its  privilege,  and  is  debatable.  I 
I  think  the  analogy  is  so  clear  that  there  can 
be  no  doubt  about  it. 


146 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Tuesday,  Jci.y  28. 


The  CHAIRMAN.  The  Chair  has  decided 
that  question. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  app^cal  from  the  decision 
of  the  Chair.  The  point  taken  by  the  gen- 
tleman from  Winona  is  the  view  I  have  of  the 
matter.  A  simple  motion  to  rise  is  not  de- 
batable, but  a  motion  tangled  with  other  mat- 
ter, like  this,  is  debatable. 

Mr.  LOAVE.  I  move  to  amend  the  motion, 
so  as  to  make  it  a  simple  motion  to  rise. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  I  accept  the  amend- 
ment. 

Mr.  "WILSON.  When  mattel^s  stand  in 
their  present  position,  can  such  an  amendment 
be  oflfered  ? 

The  CHAIRMAN.  Under  the  decision  of 
the  Chair  the  opinion  of  the  Convention  should 
be  had  upon  the  motion  of  Mr.  Lowe,  that 
the  committee  rise  and  report  with  instruc- 
tions, &c. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  The  point  I  appealed 
from  is  this  :  Mr.  Loave  withdrew  his  motion 
and  Mr.  Stannakd  renewed  it,  and  the  Chair 
decides  that  the  motion  is  not  debatable. 
From  that  decision  I  appealed  to  the  com- 
4Mttee. 

The  CHAIRMAN.  Is  the  Chair  to  under- 
stand that  Mr.  Lowe  withdrew  his  motion  ? 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  He  did,  and  Mr.  Stan- 
NARD  renewed  it. 

Mr.  FOSTER.  I  suggest  that  the  motion 
now  is  simply  that  the  committee  rise. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  suggest  that  it  is  not, 
for  the  reason  that  before  that  amendment 
was  offered,  an  appeal  was  taken  from  the 
decision  of  the  Chair  that  the  motion  of  Mr. 
Stannard  was  not  debatable;  and  conse- 
quently, it  seems  to  me,  that  it  would  be  out 
of  order.  The  question  is  now  whether  the 
Chair  shall  be  sustained. 

Mr.  BALCOMBE.  It  is  evident  that  the 
•committee  is  not  ready  to  take  a  calm  con- 
sideration of  the  subject  before  it,  and  there- 
fore I  move  that  the  committee  now  rise. 
That  motion  takes  precedence  of  all  others 
and  is  not  debatable. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  rise  to  a  point  of  or> 
der. 

Mr.  BALCOMBE.  The  gentleman  is  out 
of  order  in  rising  to  debate  the  motion  that 
•the  committee  rise. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  That  motion  has  not  been 
seconded. 


A  MEMBER.  I  second  the  motion. 
The  CHAIRMAN.  The  question  is  shall 
the  decision  of  the  Chair  stand  as  the  judg- 
ment of  the  Convention,  as  an  appeal  is  taken 
from  the  decision  of  the  Chair  that  the  motion 
of  Mr.  Standard  was  in  order. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  With  the  indulgence  of 
the  Chair,  I  would  state  that  my  appeal  was 
taken  from  the  decision  that  the  motion  of 
Mr.  Stannard  was  not  debatable. 

The  CHAIRMAN.  The  Chair  intended  to 
decide  that  the  motion  of  Mr.  Stannard  was 
in  order,  and  he  supposed  the  appeal  was  from 
that. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  That  was  not  the  ground 
of  my  appeal  at  all,  and  if  the  Chair  has  not 
made  such  a  decision,  I  will  resume  my  re- 
marks. 

Mr.  FOSTER.  Mr.  Stannard  modified 
his  motion,  to  a  simple  motion  that  the  com- 
mittee rise. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  Mr.  Lowe  moved  that 
as  an  amendment  and  I  accepted  it. 

The  CHAIRMAN.  It  appears  to  the  Chair 
that  an  appeal  having  been  taken,  it  should 
be  decided. 

Mr.  HAYDEN.  I  beg'to  say  that  no  such 
appeal  as  the  Chair  supposes  was  made.  An 
appeal  was  taken  from  a  supposed  decision 
of  the  Chair  that  the  motion  was  not  debata- 
ble, but  the  Chair  sj^ys  he  made  no  such  de- 
cision. 

Mr.  FOSTER.  I  understand  tliat  Mr. 
Secombe  withdraws  his  appeal. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  sat  down  simply  be- 
cause the  Chair  said  he  had  made  no  such  de- 
cision as  that  from  which  I  appealed. 

The  CHAIRMAN.  The  Chair  will  put  the 
question  on  the  motion  that  the  conunittee 
rise. 

The  question  was  then  taken  and  the  mo- 
tion was  agreed  to. 

The  committee  accordingly  rose  and  re- 
ported progress  on  the  bill. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  now  move  that  the  re- 
port be  re-committed  to  the  committee  from 
whence  it  came. 

Mr.  ALDRICII.  Does  the  gentleman  in- 
tend to  include  in  his  motion  instructions  to 
the  committee  ? 

Mr.  COLBURN.  Tliat  was  not  my  inten- 
tcntion,  I  will  briefly  give  my  reasons  for 
the  motion.     At  the  time  this  committee  re- 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Tuesday,  Jcly  28. 


14^ 


ported,  there  seemed  to  be  but  little  business 
before  the  Convention,  and  it  was  thought  de- 
sirable to  make  the  report  as  soon  as  possible 
in  order  that  the  Convention  might  have 
something  to  do.  The  report  was  hurried 
along  faster  than  it  should  have  been,  "and  was 
not  duly  considered  by  the  committee.  If 
the  committee  had  taken  more  time,  they 
would  have  reported  diiFerently  from  what 
they  did.  That  is  the  reason  why  I  desire  to 
have  it  re-committed  without  instructions. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  am  opposed  to  this 
motion  for  the  reason  that  it  has  not  yet  become 
apparent  to  the  Convention,  that  the  report 
is  not  iq  accordance  with  their  wishes.  We 
have  but  slightly  considered  it  in  committee 
of  the  Whole,  and  so  far  as  consideration  was 
^ven  to  it,  there  seems  to  be  a  very  general 
satisfaction  with  its  provisions. 

The  remark  by  the  gentleman  that  suflB- 
cient  time  was  not  given  to  this  proposition 
while  it  was  before  the  Committee  I  cannot 
coincide  in.  The  matter  was,  so  far  as  I 
know,  fully  and  thoroughly  discussed,  and 
there  seemed  a  general  acquiescence  upon  the 
part  of  the  committee,  that  we  should  have 
something  in  the  natm'e  of  this  second  pro- 
vision. I  do  not  see  any  reason  yet  why  we 
should  re-submit  this  matter  to  the  committee 
when  they  have  already  performed  their  duty, 
and  submitted  a  report  which  we  have  not 
vet  had  time  to  consider  in  committee  of  the 
Whole. 

Mr.  BOLLES.  As  a  member  of  that  com- 
mittee I  would  certainly  approve  of  the 
motion  to  re-submit.  Not  that  I  have  received 
any  new  light,  but  that  I  am  satisfied  that 
the  chairman  is  not  gratified  with  his  own 
rejwrt.  We  have  an  abundance  of  time,  and 
the  action  of  the  committee  will  not  be 
delayed.  I  am  willing  to  let  that  committee 
concoct  any  plan  they  or  their  chairman  may 
have  in  view.  I  certainly  will  not  shrink 
from  going  into  an  investigation  of  the  matter 
again.  I  myself  think  we  hurried  the  matter 
through  more  than  we  should  have  done.  It 
was  so  hurried  because  we  were  anxious  to 
get  some  business  for  the  Convention  to  act 
upon. 

The  question  was  taken  on  the  motion  to 
re-commit,  and  it  was  carried. 

Mr.  AVILSON.  I  now  move  that  Mr. 
Cleohor:^  be  added  to  that  standing  com- 


mittee. He  offered  an  amendment  to  the 
report  which  is  worthy  of  consideration,  and 
I  think  he  ought  to  be  added  to  the  committee. 

Mr.  FOSTER.  I  hope  that  will  not  be 
agreed  to.  I  myself  proposed  to  ofiFer  an 
amendment,  and  should  I  be  added  to  the 
committee  on  that  account  ?  If  we  do  this, 
there  is  no  telling  where  we  shall  end. 

Mr.  BOLLES.  I  suggest  to  the  Conven- 
tion that  any  suggestions  which  may  be  made 
to  the  committee  will  be  considered. 

The  motion  was  not  agreed  to. 

PCXISHMEXT   OF   CRIMES. 

On  motion  of  Mr.  COLBURN,  the  Conven- 
tion resolved  itself  into  a  committee  of  the 
Whole,  (Mr.  Watson  in  the  chair,)  upon  the 
report  of  the  committee  upon  the  Punishment 
of  Crimes.  (For  report,  see  proceedings  ofi 
July  24th.) 

The  report  was  read  by  sections  for 
amendment. 

Sec.  1.  No  person  shall  be  held  to  answer  for  a 
capital  or  infamous  crime,  unless  on  a  presentment 
or  indictment  of  a  grand  jury,  except  in  cases  of 
impeachment,  or  in  cases  cognizable  by  a  justice 
of  the  peace,  or  in  cases  arising  in  the  army  or 
navy,  or  in  the  militia  when  in  actual  service,  in 
time  of  war  or  public  danger.  The  Legislature- 
shall  provide  by  law  a  suitable  and  impartial  mode 
of  selecting  juries,  and  their  usual  number  and 
unanimity,  in  indictments  and  convictions  shall  be 
held  indispensable. 

Mr.  MORGAN.  I  move  that  that  section 
be  stricken  out,  and  my  reason  for  such  a 
motion  is,  that  the  ground  is  fully  covered  by 
the  report  of  the  committee  upon  the  Preamble 
and  Bill  of  Rights.  I  was  a  member  of  the 
committee  which  made  this  report,  and  con- 
sented to  its  being  made  in  this  form,  for 
the  purpose  of  having  it  come  before  the 
Convention,  but  I  never  approved  of  making 
a  separate  article  in  the  Constitution  upon  tliis 
subject.  I  have  seen  but  one  Constitution 
where  the  provisions  of  this  section  have 
been  provided  for  in  a  separate  form.  Article 
first  of  this  section  is  provided  for  in  article 
eighth  of  the  Bill  of  Rights.  If  these  sections 
are  adopted  in  the  form  in  which  they  are 
here  reported,  it  will  be  necessary  to  strike 
them  out  from  the  Bill  of  Rights,  where  they 
were  all  passed  upon  in  Convention. 

Mr.  BOLLES.  I  hope  the  motion  will  not 
prevail.  You  remember  that  the  question 
was  raised  when  the  Bill  of  Rights  was  under 


148 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Tuesday,  July  28. 


discussion,  that  it  included  matters  properly 
belonging  to  other  committees,  and  that  report 
was  objected  to  upon  that  ground.  But  that 
is  no  good  reason  why  this  report  should  not 
be  adopted,  and  those  redundant  articles 
in  the  Bill  of  Rights  be  stricken  out 
there. 

I  believe  it  is  the  sense  of  this  Convention 
that  we  should  have  something  in  onr  Constitu- 
tion which  should  be  the  basis  upon  which  our 
criminal  code  shall  be  founded,  and  there  is 
no  better  way,  in  my  judgment,  than  to 
incorporate  an  article,  going  into  <;hp  details 
somewhat,  prescribing  what  the  Legislature 
may  do,  and  may  not  do,  in  the  premises. 
And  I  will  say  to  the  Convention,  that  when 
the  proper  time  arrives,  I  have  a  substitute 
to  offer  to  the  whole  Bill  of  Rights,  simplify- 
ing it,  and  making  it  what  it  should  be, — a 
simple  declaration  of  right;s  and  nothing  more 
— declaring  fundamental  principles  and  leav- 
ing it  for  the  body  of  the  Constitution,  under 
proper  and  legitimate^  heads,  tQ  carry  out 
t):}0se  simple  declarations. 

Mr.  KING.  One  difficulty  arises  in  regard 
to  the  motion  before  the  Convention,  and  that 
is,  if  you  strike  out  the  whole  section  you 
strike  out  a  provision  securing  to  us  one  of  our 
most  important  rights,  which  is  that  the  Leg- 
islature shall  provide  by  law  "  a  suitable  an^ 
"impartial  mode  of  selecting  juries,  and  their 
"usual  number  and  unanimity."  It  is  only 
the  first  part  of  this  section  which  is  contained 
in  the  eighth  section  of  the  Bill  of  Rights. 
But  the  Bill  of  Rights  is  not  a  Constitution, 
but  simply  a  declaration  of  what  shall  be 
contained  in  the  Constitution,  and  what  it 
shall  be  based  upon, 

Mr.  MORGAN.  The  matter  which  has 
just  been  spoken  of,  is  provided  for  in  the 
seventh  section  of  the  Bill  of  Rights,  which 
provides  that  the  criminal  shall  have  compul- 
sory process  to  compel  the  attendance  of 
witnesses  in  his  behalf,  and  in  prosecutions 
by  indictment  or  information,  to  a  speedy  and 
public  trial  by  an  impartial  jury  of  the  county 
or  district  wherein  the  offence  shall  have  been 
committed.  It  is  impossible  for  us,  in  fram- 
ing a  constitution,  to  go  into  details,  and  state 
and  re-state  that  the  Legislature  shall  enact 
provisions  for  obtaining  imi)artial  juries.  A 
Constitution  is  some  general  directions  as  to 
the  formation  of  the  State  Government,  and 


the  enunciation  of  some  general  principles 
upon  which  legislation  shall  be  founded.  If 
we  go  into  details,  and  introduce  every  propo- 
sition which  may  be  good  in  itself,  and  proper 
at  some  time  to  be  introduced  as  matters  of 
legislation,  we  shall  make  a  Constitution  as 
large  as  a  book  of  statutes.  I  am  utterly 
opposed  to  all  these  details.  They  seem  to 
me  unnecessary  and  uncalled  for. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  am  opposed  to  striking 
out  the  section,  substantially  for  the  same  rea-. 
son  that  I  was  in  favor  of  striking  out  a  sim- 
ilar provision  from  the  Bill  of  Rights.  I 
deem  this  the  appropriate  place  for  it,  and  as 
the  Bill  of  Rights  has  not  been  finally  acted 
upon,  I  shall  vote  to  retain  this  section  here, 
and  when  the  BUI  of  Rights  comes  up,  I  shall 
move  to  strike  out  the  provision  then. 

Whether  other  States  have  arranged  their 
Constitutions  in  this  form  or  not,  I  think  it 
preferable  to  retain  it  here. 

Mr.  FOSTER.  It  strikes  me  that  this 
article  provides  for  sometliing  more  than  the 
article  in  the  Bill  of  Rights.  It  contains  cer- 
tain qualifications  which  are  not  contained  in 
that.  The  Bill  of  Rights  says :  "  Except  in 
"  cases  of  impeachment,  or  in  cases  cogniza- 
"ble  by  a  justice  of  the  peace,  or  in  cases 
"afrising  in  the  army  or  navy,  or  in  the  mi- 
"litia,  when  in  actual  service  in  time  of  war 
"  or  public  danger."  But  this  section  says 
further,  that  "  the  Legislature  shall  provide 
"  by  law  a  suitable  and  impartial  mode  of 
"  selecting  juries."  That  would  seem  to  be 
necessary.  Then  it  goes  on  to  say — "and 
"  their  usual  number  and  unanimity,  in  indict- 
"ments  and  convictions,  shall  be  deemed 
"  indispensable."  I  must  confess  I  do  not 
understand  exactly  what  that  means.  But 
notwithstanding  it  speaks  of  the  usual  number 
of  jurors,  section  eleventh  of  the  same  report, 
says  that  the  Legislature  may  authorize  trial 
by  jury  of  a  less  number  than  twelve. men  in 
the  inferior  courts  of  tlio  Strte.  I  have  no 
objection  to  the  article  though  I  think  its 
meaning  might  be  more  clearly  expressed. 

Mr.  BALCOMBE.  I  am  in  favor  of  stri- 
king out  tills  section  for  the  reason,  first, 
because  I  consider  it  a  species  of  legislation 
unnecessary  to  bo  inserted  into  the  Constitu- 
tion ;  and  secondly,  because  the  wording  of 
this  section  is  not  as  good  as  that  of  the  eleventh 
section  of  llic  Bill  of  Rights.     That  Is  more 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Tcesday,  Jclt  28.' 


140 


compact  and  partakes  much  less  of  the  nature 
of  legislation. 

Again,  the  proper  place  for  a  clause  of  this 
Import,  is  in  the  Bill  of  Rights.  All  States 
which  have  adopted  a  Constitution  -with  a 
Bill  of  Rights,  have  inserted  such  a  clause  in 
the  Bill  of  Rights.  By  common  consent  it 
seems  to  have  been  conceded  that  that  is  the 
proper  place  for  this  subject  matter. 

Mr.  LOWE.  I  was  a  member  of  the  com- 
mittee which  made  this  report,  and  I  would 
be  glad  to  have  it  receive  the  compliment  of  a 
consideration  by  the  Convention.  Neverthe- 
less it  seems  to  me  that  nearly  the  whole  of 
the  subject  matter  of  this  report  has  been 
acted  upon  carefully  by  the  committee  of  the 
Whole  when  they  had  under  consideration 
the  report  of  the  committee  on  the  Bill  of 
Rights.  If  we  go  through  this  bill  we  shall 
have  to  travel  over  the  whole  ground  again, 
and  it  will  only  tend  to  bring  us  into  a  state 
of  confusion  upon  the  subject.  It  strikes 
me  that  it  would  be  better  to  refer  the  matter 
back  to  the  committee  with  instn^ctions  to 
report  only  so  much  as  has  not  been  acted  upon 
before.  I  move  that  the  committee  now  rise, 
and  if  that  is  agreed  to,  I  will  move  in  Con- 
vention, that  it  be  recommitted  to  the  com- 
mittee from  which  it  came. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to. 

The  committee  accordingly  rose  and  re- 
ported the  report  to  the  Convention. 

Mr.  LOWE.  I  now  move  that  the  report 
be  recommitted  to  the  con^mittee  in  which  it 
originated. 

*he  motion  was  agreed  to,  and  the  report 
was  recommitted. 

EXEJtPnOX   OF    BEAL    AM)    PERSONAL    ESTATE. 

On  motion  of  Mr.  CLEGHORN,"the  Con- 
vention resolved  itself  into  committee  of  the 
Whole  (Mr.  Fosteb  in  the  Chair)  upon  the 
report  of  the  committee  upon  Exemption  of 
Peal  and  Personal  Estate,  and  the  rights  of 
Married  Women.  [For  report,  see  proceed- 
ings of  July  2-ith.] 

The  report  was  read  by  sections  for  amend- 
ment. 

Sectiov  1.  The  personal  property  of  everj 
resident  of  this  State,  to  consist  of  such  property 
as  shall  be  designated  by  law,  shall  be  exempted 
10  the  amount  of  not  less  than  two  hundred  and 
ftftj  (1250)  dollars  from  sale  on  execution  or  other 
final  process  of  any  court  issued  for  the  collection 


of  any  d«bt  contracted  after  the  adoption  of  this 
Constitution. 

Mr.  MORGAN.  I  move  that  the  first  sec- 
tion be  stricken  out,  and  [if  that  motion  is 
carried,  I  shaU  move  that  every  succeeding 
section  be  stricken  out,  and  for  the  reason 
that  this  is  wholly  a  matter  of  legislation. 
All  there  is  in  this  section,  for  which  any 
provision  is  needed,  is  provided  for  in  section 
seventeenth  of  the  Bill  of  Rights  which  says 
that  "  the  right  of  the  debtor  to  enjoy  the 
"necessary  comforts  of  life  shall  be  recog- 
"nized  by  wholesome  exemption  laws."  That 
is  a  general  provision  covering  the  whole 
ground.  The  remaining  part  of  this  report 
is  mere  legislation.  I  can  see  no  reason  why 
we  should  go  into  specific  legislation  upon 
this  subject.  The  third  and  fourth  sections 
are  also  matters  of  legislation,  and  there 
already  exists  in  this  Territory  legislation 
upon  the  subject  of  the  rights  of  married 
women.  It  does  seem  to  me  that  we  ought 
not  to  enter  upon  matters  of  legislation  of 
this  kind,  in  this  place. 

Mr.  BOLLES.  I  shall  be  under  the  neces- 
sity of  voting  against  this  motion,  and  against 
the  striking  out  of  any  other  section  of  this 
report  As  an  indiWdual  I  am  decidedly  in 
favor  of  incorporating  into  the  Constitution 
a  specific  exemption,  and  make  it  the  fimda- 
mental  law  of  the  land  that  a  certain  amount 
of  real  and  personal  property  shall  be  exempt 
from  such  execution.  Such  being  my  senti- 
ments, and  the  sentiments,  I  beheve,  of  that 
portion  of  the  community  that  is  benefitted 
by  exemption  laws,  I  shall  vote  for  retaining 
this  section  and  all  the  sections  of  this  report. 
If  there  is  any  amendment  which  can  give  it 
more  force  and  more  sacredness,  I  shall  vote 
for  such  amendment. 

Mr.  BALCOMBE.  I  am  in  favor  of  strik- 
ing out  every  section  of  this  report,  not  be- 
cause I  am  not  in  favor  of  an  homestead  ex- 
emption law,  for  I  am  most  sincerely  in  favor 
of  it,  and  were  I  a  member  of  the  first  Legis- 
lature under  the  State  government,  I  should 
insist  upon  such  a  law,  and  perhaps  for  a 
more  hberal  one  than  any  member  in  this 
Convention,  But  I  do  not  consider  it  proper 
for  us,  more  particularly  under  present  cir- 
cumstances, to  place  a  full  and  perfect  ex- 
emption law  in  the  Constitution.  If  it  is  left  to 
the    first  Legislature,  I  believe   the  people 


150 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Tuesday,  July  28. 


will  see  to  it  that  senators  and  representatives 
are  elected  who  will  frame  a  law  of  that  char- 
acter. We  should  not  encumber  the  Consti- 
tution with  full  and  perfect  laws  upon  any  of 
these  subjects.  I  am  equall}^  opposed  to  the 
insertion  of  a  banking  law  in  the  Constitution. 
Let  the  people  elect  a  Legislature  with  spe- 
cial reference  to  those  matters. 

Mr.  SMITH.  I  regard  this  section  merely 
as  a  basis  of  future  legislation.  I  think  the 
people  demand  that  something  specific  shall 
be  inserted  here.  I  hope  the  motion  to  strike 
out  will  not  prevail. 

Mr.  BALCOMBE.  There  is  in  the  BUI  of 
Rights  a  clause  which  covers  this  whole 
ground.  It  provides  that  the  right  of  the 
debtor  to  enjoy  the  necessary  comforts  of  life 
shall  be  recognized  by  wholesome  exemption 
laws.  That  gives  to  the  Legislature  full  power 
and  authority  to  pass  such  laws,  as  in  their 
judgment  they  "think  proper  and  which  they 
think  the  people  demand  ;  and  there  is  where 
I  think  this  matter  should  be  left.  But  I  was 
very  glad  to  hear  the  committee  report  upon 
this  subject  and  bring  it  before  the  Conven- 
tion, that  it  might  be  freely  discussed.  I  hope 
gentleman  will  not  vote  for  the  retention  of 
this  clause  simply  because  [they  are  m  favor 
of  such  a  law.  I,  too,  am  in  favor  of-  it, 
and  I  suppose  there  is  not  a  member  of  the 
Convention  more  so,  but  I  shall  vote  to  strike 
it  out  upon  the  ground  of  the  inexpediency  of 
inserting  a  full  and  complete  exemption  law 
io  the  Constitution. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  agree  with  the  gentle- 
man from  Winona.  While  I  am  in  favor  of 
an  exemption  law,  and  while  I  believe  the 
members  of  this  Convention,  and  neai'ly  every 
citizen  of  the  Territory,  are  in  favor  of  it,  at 
the  same  time  I  believe  it  is  not  proper  to  in- 
corporate a  law  in  detail,  like  this,  into  our 
Constitution.  It  is  agreed  upon  all  hands 
that  the  people  of  the  Territory  demand  such 
a  law,  and  if  so,  the  Legislature  will  be  sure 
to  pass  one.  What  the  people  demand,  the 
Legislature  will  not  refuse  to  grant.  Such 
being  the  universal  sentiment  of  the  commu- 
nity, there  is  no  risk  in  leaving  the  details  of 
that  law  to  the  Legislature.  I  hope  therefore 
that  the  section  will  be  stricken  out. 

Mr.  BATES.  I  do  not  think  a  gentleman 
in  this  Convention  is  opposed  to  a  homestead 
exemption  law.    On  the  contrary  I  believe 


that  every  member,  as  well  as  the  people* 
are  strongly  in  favor  of  it.  Yet  I  hope  that 
this  entire  article  will  be  stricken  out,  from 
the  fact  that  I  believe  the  proi^cr  place  for  it 
is  in  the  Bill  of  Rights ;  and  in  advocating 
that,  I  may  say,  I  am  following  in  the  course 
pursued  by  other  Constitutional  Conventions. 
In  looking  over  the  Constutions  of  other  States, 
I  have  not  found  a  single  instance  where  there 
is  a  separate  article  upon  this  subject,  but  I 
did  find  that  the  Constitutions  of  various 
States  have  articles  in  the  Bill  of  Rights  sim- 
ilar to  the  one  we  have.  I  believe  that  is  the 
place  for  it,  and  therefore  I  shall  vote  for 
striking  it  out  here. 

Mr.  SMITH.  I  would  refer  the  gentleman 
to  the  Constitutioh  of  Micliigan  where  he  will 
find  a  homestead  exemption  law  in  detail. 
And  why,  if  the  people  are  so  much  in  favor 
of  such  a  law,  should  we  not  incorporate 
something  of  this  kind,  as  the  basis  of  future 
legislation?  The  insertion  of  this  article 
would  not  preclude  legislation. 

Mr.  NORTH.  I  am  decidenly  in  favor  of 
restricting  ourselves,  in  the  formation  of  a 
Constitution,  as  much  as  possible,  to  a  decla- 
ration of  general  principles  and  of  fixing  the 
rights  of  the  people  of  this  State  by  general 
principles,  without  going  into  the  details  of 
legislation.  Still  there  is  something  in  this 
article  which  I  should  not  like  to  see  stricken 
out,  because  the  subject  of  the  last  section  is 
not  provided  for  in  the  Bill  of  Rights.  ^Vhile 
gentlemen  advocate  the  policy  and  propriety 
of  striking  out  the  whole  report,  I  should 
Uke  to  see  something  like  this  last  article  Re- 
tained. It  relates  to  the  property  of  married 
women.  As  to  the  remaining  portion  of  the 
report,  I  am  in  favor  of  striking  it  out,  as  the 
subject  embraced  in  it  is  already  sufficiently 
provided  for  in  tlve  Bill  of  Rights  already  re- 
ported. I  hope  we  shall  not  go  into  legisla- 
tion upon  this  subject  as  minutely  as  there 
seems  to  be  a  disposition  to  do  upon  the  part 
of  the  committee.  I  think  we  should  find 
our  labors  curtailed  and  our  Constitution  im- 
proved if  we  guard  that  point. 

Mr.  PECKHAM.  I  differed  somewhat  with 
my  associates  upon  the  committee  in  regard 
to  this  report,  although  I  signed  it,  I  did  m 
more  particularly  to  have  the  subject  brought 
before  the  Convention.  I  suppose  that  the 
article  in  the  Bill  of  Rights  covered  the  whoU 


MINNESOTA  CONTENTION  DEBATES— Tuesday,  July  28. 


151 


ground,  and  is  suflBcient  for  the  action  of  future 
Legislatures,  and  that  the  matter  would  more 
properly  come  before  such  a  body,  than  be- 
fore a  Constitutional  Convention. 

Mr.  BOLLES.  If  we  go  on  in  this  way 
with  the  reports  of  the  different  committees) 
it  will  be  pretty  conclusively  demonstrated 
that  we  made  an  egregious  eri'or  in  appointing 
the  committees  at  all.  If  we  are  going  to 
take  the  report  of  the  committee  on  the  Pre- 
amble and  Bill  of  Rights  as  the  Constitution, 
what  was  the  necessity  of  having  giny  other 
committees  ?  They  are  of  no  use  at  all.  But 
I  view  this  matter  in  a  different  light  from 
what  others  do.  I  look  upon  a  Bill  of  Rights 
as  incorporated  in  a  Constitution,  merely  as  a 
recapitulation  of  fundamental  principles  and 
nothing  more.  But  I  do  consider  it  perfectly 
legitimate  and  proper  to  incorporate  into  a 
Constitution  certain  fundamental  ideas,  and 
then  make  them  so  specific  that  there  can  be 
no  misconception  as  to  their  meaning — no  two 
ways  in  which  they  should  be  construed.  For 
instance,  in  regard  to  the  subject  under  con- 
sideration, the  Michigan  Constitution  exempts 
personal  property  to  an  amount  not  less  than 
five  hundred  dollars,  and  a  homestead  of  not 
exceeding  forty  acres  of  land,  &c.,  going 
specifically  into  the  details  of  the  matter. 
That  is  what  I  want  here,  and  it  is  all  I  ask. 
Make  such  a  general  exemption  here,  and 
then  leave  it  to  the  Legislature  to  say  what  it 
shall  consist  of  in  detail. 

One  word  as  to  this  idea  that  we  must  take 
the  thunder  out  of  the  Constitution,  which 
will  be  presented  by  the  body  sitting  in  the 
other  end  of  the  capitol.  I  am  in  favor  of  it, 
but  may  differ  from  others  as  to  the  best 
mode  of  doing  it.  I  am  in  favor  of  incorpo- 
rating into  the  Constitution  every  popular 
sentiment  of  the  day,  and  of  taking  it  before 
the  people  and  urging  its  adoption  most 
ardently,  claiming  it,  as  emphatically  the 
Constitution  of  the  Republican  party.  I 
shall  in  my  future  covu"se  act  upon  that  prin- 
ciple, and  thus  take  all  the  thunder  out  of 
the  other  Constitution,  by  adopting  and  incor- 
porating into  ours  all  popular  views  of  the  day. 
In  reference  to  the  Bill  of  Rights,  I  wish  to 
say  that  I  hope  there  will  be  no  definite  action 
upon  it,  until  I  shall  have  had  an  opportvmity 
to  present  the  substitute  to  which  I  referred 
before. 


Mr.  MANTOR.  I  am  in  favor  of  a  liberal 
homestead  exemption  law,  to  protect  families, 
fi-iends,  and  the  entire  community,  but  I  am 
opposed  to  the  adoption  of  the  report  of  this 
conynittee.  Now,  sir,  if  we  are  to  take  up 
every  popular  sentiment  of  the  day  which  we 
may  find  in  the  report  of  any  committee,  and 
insert  them  into  our  Constitution,  we  should 
make  an  instrument  which  the  people  could 
not  miderstand.  I  am  opposed  to  this  section 
from  tlie  fact  that  it  lays  down  a  specific 
amount  of  exemption.  My  views  of  the 
amount  of  exemption  would  probably  differ 
very  much  from  a  majority  of  the  members 
upon  this  floor.  The  gentleman  from  Winona, 
(Mr.  Balcombe)  stated  that  he  was  in  favor 
of  the  most  liberal  laws  in  that  respect,  yet  I 
presume  I  would  go  further  than  any  delegate 
here.  But,  sir,  if  we  are  going  to  incorporate  • 
this  into  our  Constitution,  we  had  better 
follow  out  the  plan  indicated  by  one  gentle- 
man who  has  spoken,  and  take  up  all  the 
isms  of  the  day,  and  give  them  a  place  here. 
But  it  looks  to  me  ridiculous  to  embody  in 
our  Constitution  anything  infringing  on  the 
legislative  department,  and  for  that  reason  I 
shall  oppose  this  section.  There  is  also  in  the 
Bill  of  Right  ssufficient  to  guarantee  to  every 
man  a  sufficient  exemption.  It  is  so  worded 
that  the  Legislature  can  act  upon  the  subject 
with  a  due  regard  to  the  rights  and  wishes  of 
the  people. 

The  question  was  then  taken,  and  the  sec- 
tion was  stricken  out. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  move  to  strike  out  the 
second  section. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to. 

Mr.  BOLLES.  I  move  that  the  committee 
rise. 

The  motion  was  not  agreed  to. 

Mr.  HARDING.  I  move  to  strike  out  the 
third  section. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  To  save  the  time  of 
the  committee,  I  move  that  the  committee  rise 
and  report  back  the  report  to  the  Convention 
with  a  recommendation  that  it  be  indefinitely 
postponed. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to. 

The  committee  accordingly  rose,  and  the 
chairman  reported  back  the  report,  with  a 
recommendation  of  the  Committee  that  the 
report  be  indefinitely  postponed. 


152 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Tuesday,  July  28, 


The  question  being  on  agreeing  with  the 
recommendation  of  the  committee,  Mr.  LYLE 
called  for  the  yeas  and  nays. 

The  5'cas  and  nays  were  orderedi 

The  roll  was  then  called,  and  the  question 
was  decided  in  the  aflBrmative,  yeas  39,  nays 
9,  as  follows : 

Yeas— Messrs.  Aldrich,  Anderson,  Ayer,  Bal- 
combe,  Baldwin,  Bates,  Bartholomew,  Billings, 
Cleghorn,  Colburn,  Coe,Cederstam,  Coombs,  Dool- 
ey,Dickerson,  Folsom,  Galbraith,  Gerrish,  Hayden, 
Uarding,  Hudson,  Hanson,  HoUey,  Lowe,  Mantor, 
Morgan,  Mills,  Murphy,  Nortli,  Putnam,  KobbinSj 
Russell,  Stannard,  Secombe,  Walker,  Winell, 
Watson,  and  Wilson. 

JVays — Messrs.  BoUes,  Foster,  King,  Kemp, 
Lyle,  McClure,  Phelps,  Smith  and  Vaughn. 

And  then  on  motion  of  Mr.  HARDING, 
(at  twelve   o'clock   and  thirty  minutes,)  the 
Convention  adjom-ned  until  two  o'clocki 
AFTERNOON  SESSION. 

The  Convention  met  at  two  o'clock; 

Mr.  MILLS  offered  the  following  resolution : 

"Sesolved,  That  the  object  of  a  Constitution  is 
to  organize  a  government,  prescribing  the  nature 
and  extent  of  the  powers  of  the  several  depart- 
ments thereof;  and  that  to  engraft  any  legislative 
enactment  therein  would  be  anti-Republican.  Fur- 
ther, that  a  Bill  of  Rights  should  only  be  declara- 
tory of  general  fundamental  principles." 

Mr.  HARDING.  I  am  not  prepared  to  go 
for  that  resolution  at  the  present  time,  nor  do 
I  as  yet  see  the  propriety  of  passing  it.  It  is 
barely  possible,  that  there  might  be  different 
views  of  what  might  be  termed  legislative 
acts.  There  may  be  provisions  that  we  may 
find  necessary  to  incorporate  into  the  Bill  of 
Rights,  which  some  might  consider  legislative 
in  their  nature,  while  others  would  think 
differently.  I  am  of  opinion  that  the  adop- 
tion of  such  a  resolution  would  not  be  bene- 
ficial at  this  time. 

The  resolution  was  tlien  laid  over  under 
the  rule. 

BILL   OF   BIGHTS. 

Mr.  BATES.  I  move  that  the  Convention 
now  proceed  to  the  third  reading  of  the  report 
of  the  committee  on  the  Preamble  and  Bill 
of  Rights. 

Mr.  NORTH,  I  would  inquire  if  it  is  not 
yet  in  committee  of  the  Whole. 

The  PRESIDENT.  It  is  not.  It  has  been 
reported  back,  and  was  laid  upon  the  table. 
It  has  not  yet  been  engrossed,  nor  have  the 
amendments  of  the  committee  all  been  acted 


on,  and  it  would  require  a  two-thirds  vote  tO 
put  it  upon  its  third  reading  before  its 
engrossment. 

Mr.  BATES.  I  withdraw  my  motion,  and 
move  that  it  be  taken  from  the  table,  and  that 
we  pi-oceed  to  act  upon  the  amendments 
recommended  by  the  committee  of  the  Whole; 

Mr.  WILSON.  I  should  like  to  see  the 
bill  disposed  of  to-day,  but  the  chairman  of 
the  committee  which  reported '  it  is  absent 
now  on  account  of  sickness  in  his  family,  and 
has  been  absent  all  the  time  during  its  con- 
sideration. He  will  be  here  to-day,  and  I 
think  we  had  better  leave  it  until  he  re- 
turns. 

The  PRESIDENT.  The  Chair  would  sug- 
gest the  propriety  of  not  finally  passing  any 
of  these  propositions  without  having  them 
engrossed.  It  would  be  rather  a  difficult 
matter  for  the  Secretary  to  read  the  report  in 
its  present  shape,  with  its  various  amend- 
ments so  as  to  make  it  understood. 

Mr.  NORTH.  I  am  in  favor  of  its  bein^ 
engrossed,  but  before  that  is  done  I  wish  to 
say  that  there  is  a  part  of  the  report  which 
we  recommitted  this  morning,  which  I  should 
like  to  see  added  to  the  Bill  of  Rights.  It  is 
the  section  in  regard  to  the  rights  of  married 
women,  Jtnd  if  the  bill  is  again  taken  up  I 
shall  move  such  an  amendment. 

Mr,  STANNARD.  Have  the  amendments 
recommended  by  the  committee  of  the  Whole 
been  yet  concurred  in  ? 

The  PRESIDENT.     They  have  not. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  Then  of  course  it 
must  be  takfn  up  and  the  amendments 
acted  on. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to,  and  the  bill  was 
again  before  the  Convention. 

Mr.  BOLLES.  Mr.  President.  I  pro- 
pose a  substitute  for  the  wKole  report.  I  do 
so'  out  of  ntf  feeling  of  disrespect  for  the 
opinions  of  the  gentleman  who  got  up  this 
report,  but  sitaiply  from  the  conviction  that 
the  investigations  were  insufficient  for  want 
of  time  on  the  part  of  tlie  standing  com- 
mittee. 

The  substitute  was  read  by  the  Secretary. 
It  is  as  follows : 

Preamble.  Wc  the  people  of  the  State  of  Min- 
nesota, feeling  that  the  blessings  of  free  govern- 
ment can  only  be  maintained  by  a  firm  adhcrenc* 
to  justice  and  strict  virtue,  and  being  desiroHi  to 


MEsXESOTA  CONTENTION  DEBATES— Tcesdat,  Jclt  28. 


153 


nerpetuate  the  blessings  of  civil  and  religions 
liberty  to  our  posterity,  do  ordain  and  establish 
this  Constitution. 

ARTICLE   I — DECLABATION   OF   BIGHTS. 

Sectiox.  1.  All  men  are  bom  equally  free  and 
independent,  and  have  cenain  inalienable  rights, 
among  which  are  life,  liberty  and  the  pursuit  of 
happiness.  To  secure  these  rights  governments 
are  instituted  among  men,  deriving  their  just 
powers  from  the  consent  of  the  governed. 

Sec.  2.  There  shall  be  neither  slavery  nor 
involuntary  servitude  in  the  State,  except  for  the 
punishn^nt  of  crimes,  of  which  the  party  shall 
have  been  duly  convicted. 

Sec.  3.  The  liberty  of  the  press  shall  forever 
remain  inviolate,  and  all  persons  may  freely  speak, 
write  and  publish  their  sentiments  on  all  subjects, 
being  responsible  for  the  abuse  of  those  rights. 

Sec.  4.  The  right  of  the  people  to  assemble  to 
consult  for  the  common  good,  and  to  petition  the 
government,  or  any  department  thereof,  shall 
never  be  abridged. 

Sec.  5.  The  right  of  trial  by  jury  shall  forever 
remain  inviolate. 

Sec.  6.  Liberal  laws  regulating  capital  punish- 
ment should  be  enacted,  but  no  laws  prohibiting 
such  punishment  shall  be  passed. 

Sec  7.  The  privilege  of  the  writ  of  Jidbeaa 
corpus  shall  not  be  suspended,  except  in  case  of 
insurrection. 

Sec.  8.  All  persons  are  entitled  to  certain  rem- 
edy in  law,  for  all  injuries  or  wrongs  which  they 
may  sustain  in  their  person,  property  or  char- 
acter. 

Sec.  9.  Treason  against  the  State  shall  consist 
only  in  bringing  war  against  the  same,  or  in  adhe- 
ring to  its  enemies,  giving  them  aid  and  comfort. 

Sec.  10.  The  right  of  the  people  to  be  secure 
i'l  their  persons,  houses,  papers  and  effects  against 
unreasonable  searches  or  seizures,  shall  not  be 
violated. 

Sec  11.  No  bill  of  attainder,  ex  pogt facto  law, 
nor  any  law  impairing  the  obligation  of  contracts, 
shall  be  passed,  and  no  conviction  shall  work  cor- 
ruption of  blood  or  forfeiture  of  estate. 

Sec  12.  No  private  property  shall  be  taken 
•"  jr  pubUc  use,  without  just  compensation  therefor. 

Sec.  13.  All  lands  within  this  State  are  declared 
allodial,  and  feudal  tenures  are  prohibited. 

Sec  14.  Xo  distinction  shall  be  made  by  law 
between  resident  aliens  and  citizens,  in  reference 
to  the  possession,  enjoyment  or  descent  of  prop^ 
erty.    , 

Sec  15.  No  imprisonment  for  debt  shall  be 
allowed. 

Sec  16.  The  right  of  the  debtor  to  enjoy  the 
comforts  of  life  shall  be  recognized  by  liberal  and 
-.rholesoihe  exemption  laws. 

Sec.  17.  The  right  of  every  man  to  worship 
God  according  to  the  dictates  of  his  own  con- 
science shall  never  be  infringed,  nor  shall  any 

20 


man  be  compelled  to  attend,  erect,  or  support  any 
place  of  public  worship,  or  to  maintain  any  reli- 
gious ministry  against  his  consent,  nor  shall  the 
Legislature  appropriate  any  public  funds  for  the 
support  of  reUgious  or  theological  institutions. 

Sec  18.  No  religious  test  or  prc^rty  qualifi- 
cation shall  ever  be  required  for  civil  privileges. 

Sec  19.  The  military  shall  be  in  subjection  to 
the  civil  power. 

Sec  20.  Writs  of  error  shall  never  be  prohibi-' 
ted  by  legal  enactments. 

Sec  21.  Lotteries  shall  not  be  authorized  by 
law. 

Sec  22.  The  Legislature  shall  pass  no  laws 
licensing  the  traffic  in  ardent  spirits,  or  intoxica- 
ting liquors. 

Sec  23.  Dueling  shall  not  be  allowed  in  the 
State,  and  the  Legislature  is  required  to  pass  good 
and  wholesome  laws  prohibiting  the  same. 

Sec  24.  The  criminal  code  shall  be  founded 
upon  principles  of  justice  and  reformation. 

Sec  25.  The  people  shall  have  the  right  to 
bear  arms  in  defense  of  themselves  and  the  State. 

Mr.  NORTH.  Mr.  Pbesidest:  There  are 
some  things  in  that  substitute  that  I  like,  and 
I  don't  know  but  I  should  like  most  of  it.  I 
move  that  it  lie  on  the  table  and  be  printed, 
that  we  may  have  an  opportunity  of  examin- 
ing it  more  at  leisure. 

The  motion  was  agi'eed  to. 

So  the  substitute  was  ordered  to  be  printed, 
and  the  question  recurred  on  the  amendments 
recommended  by  the  committee  of  the  Whole. 

Mr.  BOLLES.  I  move  that  the  report  of 
the  standing  committee  be  laid  on  the  table. 

Mr.  CLEGHORN.  I  move  that  the  bill 
before  the  Convention  together  with  the 
amendments,  be  printed. 

The  PRESIDENT.  The  motion  to  lay  on 
the  table  takes  precedence. 

The  motion  to  lay  on  the  table  was  re- 
jected. 

Mr.  CLEGHORN.  I  now  renew  my 
motion  to  have  the  bill  and  amendments 
printed. 

Mr.  NORTH.  I  was  going  to  move  an  ad- 
ditional clause — if  I  have  the  permission  of 
the  gentleman — in  regard  to  the  rights  of 
married  women.  I  will  m  ove  that  the  fol- 
lowing section  be  added : 

"  Sec  —  Married  women  shall  have  the  right 
to  hold  and  convey  real  and  ptersonal  property, 
in  their  own  right,  and  separately  from  their 
husbands." 

The  PRESIDENT.  The  amendment  is 
not  properly  in  order,  until  the  amendments 
recommended  by  the  committee  of  the  "Whole 


154 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Tuesdat,  Jult  28. 


^ 

shall  be  disposed  of,  no  other  amendment  will 
be  in  order. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  I  move  to  re-commit 
the  report  of  the  standing  committee  with  the 
amendments  in  committee  of  the  Whole, 
together  with  the  substitute,  and  the  resolu- 
tions submitted  this  afternoon  upon  the  same 
subject,  to  the  standing  committee  on  the  Bill 
of  Rights. 

The  PRESIDENT.     Tlie  substitute  has 
been-ordered  to  lie  on  the  table  to  be  printed. 
A  motion  to  take  it  up  would  be  in  order. 
'    Mr.  SMITH.     I  move  to  take  the  substitute 
from  the  table. 

Mr.  BOLLES.  I  hope  that  will  not  prevail. 
I  hope  the  paper  will  be  allowed  to  go  to  the 
printing  offiee  and  be  printed,  that  we  may 
all  look  at  it  and  compare  it  with  other  propo- 
sitions, and  decide  between  them  as  to  what 
we  want. 

Mr.  HAYDEN.  Mr.  Pbesident  :  It  does 
appear  to  me  that  we  have  a  committee 
competent  to  their  task,  and  if  this  substitute 
shall  be  referred  to  them,  and  if  there  are 
good  ideas  in  it — and  I  confess  there  are  some 
that  I  like — I  think  they  are  abundantly  com- 
petent to  put  them  into  the  article.  It  looks 
to  me  like  unnecessary  work  to  print.  There 
bas  been  one  report  printed,  and  to  print  any 
more  would  be  out  of  the  usual  course.  I 
think  it  would  be  far  better  to  refer  the  whole 
to  the  standing  committee,  and  let  them 
investigate  it.  If  there  are  valuable  ideas 
suggested,  I  trust  they  will  incorporate  them. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  I  object  to  this  mode 
of  forming  a  Constitution.  We  have  spent 
considerable  time  on  the  Bill  of  Rights,  and  it 
■is  only  out  of  courtesy  that  I  should  feel  dis- 
posed to  refer  the  substitute.  Although  the 
substitute  might  be  even  better  than  the 
original  report,  I  would  not  vote  for  it  with- 
out first  extending  this  courtesy  to  the  com- 
mittee, which  is  usually  extended  by  deliber- 
ative bodies.  The  committee  luve  prepared 
their  report,  no  doubt,  with  great  care  and 
labor,  and  here  we  have  a  substitute  for  it 
which  it  is  proposed  to  print.  It  is  out  of 
the  line  of  parliamentary  proceeding  to  order 
a  substitute  to  be  printed.  It  would  be  dis- 
courteous toward  the  committee,  unless  the 
original  and  amendments  were  also  printed. 
I  have  all  confidence  in  the  standing  com- 
Hiitteo  on  the  Bill  of  Rights,  and  instead  of 


having  so  much  printing  done,  and  taking  up 
so  much  time,  I  should  prefer  that  the  whole 
subject  were  simply  referred  again. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  am  opposed  to  all 
reference  of  the  matter  at  present.  We  have 
had  a  clean  report  from  the  standing  com- 
mittee, and  that  report  has  been  considered 
in  committee  of  the  Whole.  But  no  attention 
has  been  given  by  the  Convantion  to  the 
amendments  recommended  by  the  committee 
of  the  Whole.  We  have  no  assurance  as  to 
"whether  the  Convention  might  not#iow  be 
satisfied  with  i^e  present  shape  of  the  report. 
I  think  it  better  first  to  ascertain  whether  the 
Convention  will  accept  and  adopt  the  amend- 
ments of  the  committee  of  the  Whole.  This 
motion  seems  to  be  taking  the  matter  again 
out  of  our  hands.  Some  gentlemen  say  they 
have  not  been  present  when  this  article  has  ^ 
been  before  us.  To  be  sure,  a  good  many 
have  taken  it  upon  themselves  to  go  home 
about  their  own  business ;  but  I  do  not  like 
to  see  this  used  as  an  argument  and  a  reason 
why  we  should  go  over  this  matter  again.  It 
has  been  now  two  or  three  days  since  this 
report  came  back  from  the  committee  of  the 
Whole,  and  it  seems  to  me  nothing  but  cour- 
tesy that  we  should  act  upon  their  recom- 
mendations ;  and  if  we  find  we  are  not  satis- 
fied, then  it  will  be  time  enough  to  make 
another  reference.  TiU  then,  I  am  opposed 
to  all  reference  of  the  matter. 

The  PRESIDENT.  The  first  question  is 
on  the  motion  to  print  the  article  with  the 
amendments. 

Mr.  WILSON.  Would  it  not  be  well  to 
print  the  amendments  in  the  bill  ? 

The  PRESIDENT.  The  amendments  have 
not  been  made  yet. 

Mr.  WILSON..  They  will  bo  printed,  as 
recommended  by  the  committee  of  the  Whole. 

Mr.  NORTH.  I  hope  this  will  not  pass. 
It  would  be  folly  to  send  a  paper  to  be  printed 
in  that  condition.  I  think,  myself,  it  would 
be  as  well  not  to  have  it  printed  at  all. 

The  PRESIDENT.  The  Chair  would 
suggest,  that  it  would  bo  almost  impossible 
for  the  printer  to  ferret  out  the  amendments. 

Mr.  CLEGIIORN.     I  withdraw  the  motion 

The  question  recui-ring  on  Mr.  Smith's 
motion,  it  was  agreed  to,  and  the  substitute 
was  again  before  the  Convention. 

Mr.   HAYDEN.    Mr.  President,  I  move 


MINXESOTA  COXVENTION   DEBATES— Titesday,  Jult  28. 


155 


that  the  report  and  amendments,  with  the 
substitute,  be  re-committed  to  the  standing 
committee. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  The  course  indicated  by 
this  motion  will  require  several  days  before 
we  can  get  tliis  matter  before  us  again.  After 
the  report  shall  be  again  made  by  the  stand- 
ing committee,  it  has  then  to  be  read  the  first 
and  second  time  and  printed ;  then  it  has  to 
be  considered  in  committee  of  the  whole ; 
then,  on  a  subsequent  day,  it  has  to  be 
brought  before  this  body.  In  other  words,  it 
is  taking  the  back  track  for  about  a  week,  in 
order  to  go  again  over  the  very  same  ground 
we  have  been  over  before.  I  wish,  Mr.  Pbesi- 
DEST,  to  get  along  as  fast  as  possible  with 
this  matter.  These  amendments  have  been 
long  enough  before  the  Convention,  and  new 
amendments  can  be  offered.  I  hope  gentle- 
men will  not  insist  on  going  back  and  being 
delayed  so  long. 

Mr.  PERKIXS.  As  I  look  at  it,  this  de- 
lay is  for  the  espec:al  benefit  of  those  who 
saw  fit  to  leave  their  places  here  and  go 
home  about  their  own  business.  The  Con- 
vention refused  last  week  to  adjomn  over  till 
Monday,  for  the  sake  of  enabling  these  gen- 
tleman to  retire.  Nevertheless,  they  saw  fit 
to  go,  and  I  understand  that  some,  who  were 
left  here  for  the  sake  of  aiding  in  the  move- 
ment, when  their  names  were  called,  refused 
to  answer,  for  the  sake  of  putting  off  the  busi- 
ness of  the  Convention. 

Mr.  HAYDEX  (interrupting.)  I  rise  to  a 
point  of  order.  I  think  the  gentleman  is  not 
on  the  subject.     . 

The  PRESIDENT.  [Mr.  Secombe  in  the 
Chair.]  The  Chair  is  of  opinion,  that  the 
gentleman  from  Rice  county  is  on  the  subject. 
Mr.  PERKINS.  I  understand  that  there 
was  a  plan  contrived  to  have  this  thing  laid 
over,  so  as  to  give  these  gentlemen  a  chance 
to  come  back  and  take  part.  I  do  not  know 
that  this  is  correct ;  but  it  seems  to  me  that 
the  movement  to-day  must  be  for  the  special 
benefit  of  those  who  left  Inasmuch,  then, 
as  this  report  has  been  fully  considered  in 
committee  of  the  Whole,  and  the  whole 
ground  has  been  traveled  over,  it  seems  to 
me,  it  is  a  matter  of  sheer  justice  to  those 
members  who  have  remained  here,  that  this 
delay  should  not  be  permitted.  I  hope  the 
majority  of  this  Convention  will  not  delay ; 


but  that  the  business  in  hand  may  be  dis- 
posed of,  and  we  may  take  hold  of  other 
matter,  so  that  we  may  not  be  obliged  to 
spend  six  months  in  fi*aming  a  Constitutioti, 
when  three  or  four  weeks  would  be  sufiBcient. 
Mr.  BATES.  Mr.  President:  I  think 
the  gentleman  from  Rice  county  is  vmder  a 
mistake.  I  am  one  of  those  who  have  been 
away ;  and  I  was  the  one  who  made  the  mo- 
tion this  afternoon  that  the  report  of  the 
committee  on  the  Preamble  and  Bill  of  Rights 
be  taken  up ;  and  I  desire  to  proceed  immedi- 
ately to  act  upon  the  amendments  recom- 
mended by  the  committee  of  the  Whole.  I 
was  in  fiivor  of  going  forward  with  business, 
and  am  so  stiU.  I  was  opposed  to  the  sub- 
stitute, and  opposed  to  the  ordfer  to  print.  I 
am  now  in  fiivor  of  going  forward  with  the 
consideration  of  the  amendments. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  I  feel  cafled  upon  to 
explain  the  reason  of  my  standing  outside 
the  bar  yesterday — as  the  gentleman  alh^ed 
to  me — to  break  a  quorum.  I  did  it,  sir,  on 
the  grovmd  that  I  beHeve  the  majority  ought 
to  rule.  There  were  but  twenty-nine  mem- 
bers present,  and  I  certainly  thought  it  wrong 
to  proceed.  I  would  rather  the  whole  one 
hundred  and  eight  were  here  than  the  fifty- 
nine, — ^much  rather  the  fifty-nine  than  the 
twenty- two  or  twenty-three  who  then  remained 
in  their  seats.  I  am  ready  to  stand  by  all  that 
I  did. 

Mr.  WILSON.  Mr.  Pbesidext:  I  have 
twice  suggested  a  postponement  of  the  mat- 
ter of  the  report  of  this  committee — inasmuch 
as  we  had  other  matter  before  us — ^untU  the 
Chairman  of  the  conmiittee  should  be  pres- 
ent. That  gentleman,  however,  never  spoke 
to  me  about  putting  off  action.  He  is  absent 
because  his  child  is  sick,  as  I  understand — 
absent  necessarily ;  and  I  thought  it  would 
be  proper  to  leave  it  till  he  should  be 
present ;  for  upon  this,  as  upon  every  sub- 
ject, I  should  be  very  glad  to  have  his  coun- 
sel and  assistance.  I  shall  certainly  vote  for 
giving  the  report  again  to  the  committee,  or 
for  any  delay  of  its  consideration  imder  the 
circumstances. 

Mr.  BOLLES.  I  hope  the  motion  to  re- 
commit will  prevafl.  I  happen  to  know,  that 
the  standing  committee  did  not  take  the  time 
in  getting  up  their  report  which  they  would 
have  taken,  had  they  not  supposed,  that  the 


156 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Tuesday,  July  28. 


report  should  be  presented  very  early  in  our 
deliberations  here.  Consequently,  they  has- 
tened to  get  through  with  it,  expecting  the 
Convention  to  do  with  it  as  they  saw  fit. 
They  did  not  give  the  subject  the  attention  it 
deserved,  as  I  have  understood  from  them- 
selves ;  and  J  believe,  if  they  all  understood 
l^ow  the  mfittter  now  stands,  they  would  be 
exceedingly  gratified  if  the  Convention  would 
^.llow  it  to  go  back  to  them.  It  seems  to  me 
such  a  course  is  necessary  to  the  perfection 
of  the  work. 

I  for  one,  would  not  like  to  see  the  Consti- 
tution go  out  with  such  imperfections  that  we 
would  not  like  to  look  upon  it  hereafter.  I 
want  a  Constitution  that  the  State  shall  be 
proud  of— one  that  will  not  need  revising  for 
a  hundred  years  to  come.  And  to  accom- 
plish such  a  work,  I  hope  we  shall  take  all 
the  time  that  may  be  necessary.  I  am  one 
of  those  really  needing  my  own  time  at  home, 
but  I  am  not  willing  to  go  away  from  this 
place  and  leave  our  work  half  done. 

Mr.  HAYDEX.  I  made  the  motion  to 
recommit  for  ftie  express  purpose  of  expe- 
diting business.  That  report  was  made,  and, 
in  my  opinion,  weak  as  it  may  be,  it  is  a  very 
good  Bill  of  Bights.  I  do  not  pretend  to  say 
but  that  it  needs  some  amendments,  but  we 
see  it  lumbered  up  with  almost  innumerable 
amendments ;  and  at  this  time  a  substitute  is 
offered  for  tl^e  whole  bill,  a  vote  taken  to  lay 
it  upon  the  table  and  have  it  printed.  That 
will  consume  some  time.  It  seems  to  me 
that  the  only  correct  course  for  us  to  pursue 
is  to  recommit  the  whole  matter. 

In  regard  to  the  assertion  that  many  of  us 
were  absent  when  the  report  was  acted  upon, 
and  that  we  therefore  complain  of  forcing 
action  upon  it  now,  I  will  say  that  I  have- 
made  no  complaint,  though  I  was  absent 
during  its  consideration.  I  have  had  some 
little  legislative  experience,  and  I  am  willing 
that  my  course  should  be  properly  presented. 
During  the  last  six  months  I  have  spent 
eighty-nine  days  in  this  place  in  a  legislative 
capacity,  and  in  all  that  time,  I  believe  that 
the  roll  has  been  called  but  once  when  I  have 
failed  to  respond  to  my  name.  It  is  true  I 
absented  myself  from  the  Convention  a  part 
of  the  last  week.  I  went  home  on  account 
of  sickness,  and  nothing  but  the  peculiar  cir- 
cumstances in  which  this  Convention  is  placed 


would  have  induced  me  to  return  now.  I  do 
not  complain  in  the  least  of  amendments  hav- 
ing been  made  during  my  absence.  I  am 
glad  the  business  has  been  done  and  I  pre- 
sume it  has  been  well  done.  But  I  think 
now,  at  this  stage  and  position  of  the  report, 
that  the  best  possible,  the  most  cautious,  and 
the  straight  forward  course,  is  to  recommit 
it,  that  the  committee  may  have  a  fair  chance 
to  compare  the  substitute  with  the  report.  If 
they  find  the  substitute  better  than  the  origi- 
nal I  presume  they  will  adopt  it. 

Mr.  BALCOMBE.  I  am  very  sorry  to  see 
so  much  of  the  time  of  the  Convention  occu- 
pied in  this  manner,  and  apparently  for  no 
earthly  good  that  any  one  can  percieve.  The 
substitute  oflfered  by  the  gentleman  from 
Rico  County  (Mr.  Bolles)  contains  but  one 
or  two  sections,  and  one  or  two  subjects, 
differing  from  the  report  made  by  the  com- 
mittee. Now  is  it  necessary,  in  order  that  we 
may  get  tjiose  additions  into  the  Bill  of  Rights, 
that  we  should  take  under  consideration  the 
whole  substitute,  after  having  spent  two  or 
three  days  upon  the  report  ?  The  proper 
course  for  the  gentleman  to  have  taken  to  have 
his  new  ideas  included  in  the  Bill  of  Rights 
would  have  been  to  offer  them  by  way  of 
amendment,  that  he  could  have  done  after 
the  committee  of  the  Whole  had  reported 
back  the  report  to  the  Convention  with  the 
amendments.  He  could  have  got  them  inserted 
just  as  well,  and  even  better,  by  offering  them 
as  amemendments,  than  by  way  of  substi- 
tute for  the  whole  biU.  If  he  only  wanted 
to  change  the  phraseology — and  I  perceive 
that  he  has  changed  the  language  of  the  re- 
port but  very  little  in  the  substitute  he  has 
offered — why  did  he  not  offer  amendments  to 
accomplish  tliat  purpose  ?  and  not  encumber 
the  journals  with  a  long  substitute  for  the 
whole,  and  occupy  the  time  of  the  Conven- 
tion with  it  ? 

Now,  sir,  it  is  not,  as  was  taken  for  granted 
by  another  gentleman  from  Rice  County,  that 
the  reason  for  tliis  movement  is  that  cer- 
tain gentlemen  were  absent  when  the  report 
was  considered  in  committee  of  the  Whole. 
There  is  sompthing  back  of  all  that,  and  I  am 
sorry  to  see  it,  and  I  hope  I  shall  not  see  it 
in  this  Convention  again.  It  is  this  matter 
of  little  jealousies  and  little  piques,  alleging 
that  this  committee  and  that  committee  have 


MIXXESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Tiesd at,  Jclt  28. 


15T 


infringed  upon  the  rights  of  other  committees. 
I  think  the  time  of  this  Convention  should 
not  be  occupied  with  such  tridal  matters. 
Committeas  were  simply  appointed  to  present 
to  the  Convention  a  firame  work  of  a  Consti- 
tution, which  we  are  afterwards  to  side  up, 
put  on  a  cornice,  a  roof,  «Sbc.,  without  refer- 
ence to  its  origin  from  any  committee  what- 
ever. That  is  a  matter  of  minor  importance 
in  this  work,  and  they  are  worthy  of  no  con- 
sideration in  the  deliberations  of  this  body. 

The  gentleman  from  Rice  County  has  left 
out  from  his  substitute  certain  sections  which 
were  claimed  here,  the  other  day,  should  have 
been  reported  from  some  other  committee — I 
do  not  now  recollect  what  they  were  and  I 
care  not.  It  is  a  petty  jealousy  which  ought 
not  to  be  recognized.  Those  sections  are  in 
their  proper  place.  Just  such  sections  are 
contained"  in  the  Bill  of  Rights  of  every  Con- 
stitution which  has  a  Bill  of  Rights,  and  I 
care  not  from  what  committee  they  come. 
They  are  sections  calculated  to  protect  the 
rights  of  the  people  and  they  belong  where 
they  are,  if  anywhere. 

Now  what  ditference  does  it  make  whether 
one  committee  or  another  reported  them  ?  It 
is  of  no  importance.  And  now  after  the  re- 
port has  been  considered  in  committee  of  the 
Whole  for  two  or  three  days  and  reported 
back  to  the  Convention  with  certain  amend- 
ments, we  should  go  to  work  and'  adopt  or 
reject  those  amendments,  and  then  if  any 
gentieman  wishes  to  add  an  additional  section, 
let  him  move  to  add  it,  and  if  we  want  to 
change  the  phraseology,  we  can  do  it  If 
there  is  any  section  there  which  does  not  be- 
long to  the  Bill  of  Rights,  it  will  be  in  order 
to  move  to  strike  it  out.  We  should  proceed 
in  the  straight  forward,  manly  and  parliamen- 
tary way. 

I  make  these  remarks  not  because  I  have 
any  personal  feelings  in  the  matter.  I  have 
not.  I  am  willing  to  sit  here  six  weeks  if  it 
is  necessary  to  do  so,  but  I  desire  that  we 
should  go  directly  forward  and  do  our  duty, 
be  the  time  longer  or  shorter.  I  do  not  want 
to  see  the  time  of  the  Convention  taken  up  in 
this  trivial,  imusual  and  undignified  man- 
ner. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  hope  the  motion  wiU 
not  prevail.  I  believe  with  the  gentleman 
who  last  spoke,  that  it  is  our  duty,  as  a  Con- 


vention, to  go  directly  to  the  consideration  of 
the  recommendation  of  the  committee  of  the 
Whole.  I  can  see  notliing  gained  by  refer- 
ring the  report  back  to  the  committee.  If  it 
is  so  referred  and  they  make  another  report, 
we  shall  have  to  go  over  the  whole  groimd 
again.  It  must  be  again  considered  in  com- 
mittee of  the  Whole  section  by  section,  and 
I  venture  the  prediction  that  there  would  be 
quite  as  many  amendments  offered  the  next 
time  as  there  have  been  this.  It  is  not  to  be 
supposed  that  the  report  of  a  committee  on 
a  subject  of  this  kind  is  going  to  meet  the 
views  of  every  member ;  and  hence  amend- 
ments will  be  offered  again  and  again,  and 
when  we  get  through,  it  is  not  probable  that 
we  shall  be  any  better  off  than  we  are  now. 
My  opinion  therefore  is,  that  we  had  better 
go  on  and  consider  the  amendments.  We 
shall  save  time  and  money  by  so  doing. 

As  regards  the  matter  of  the  Chairman  of 
the  committee  being  absent,  I  must  say  that 
while  I  claim  to  have  some  regard  to  the  ex- 
ercise of  courtesy  towards  members,  he  has 
no  claim  to  courtesy  in  this  respect.  A  gen- 
tleman says  he  is  absent  on  account  of  sick- 
ness in  his  family.  I  really  very  much  doubt 
whether  that  is  the  reason  why  he  is  not  in 
this  Convention  now.  He  told  me  some  four 
days  before  he  left,  that  he  should  leave  and 
go  home  on  thftt  day.  He  told  other  gentle- 
men that  he  was  going  home  to  address  a 
public  meeting.  He  said  nothing  about  sick- 
ness in  his  family. 

Again,  in  reference  to  his  having  considered 
this  matter  more  fully  than  any  other  member. 
I  doubt  whether  he.  gave  that  consideration  to 
the  Bin  of  Rights  which  was  given  to  it  in 
committee  of  the  Whole.  He  certainly  drew 
it  up  in  one  evening — the  very  evening  the 
committee  was  appointed — and  presented  it 
to  the  Convention  the  next  day.  He  did  not 
have  time  to  give  to  it  more  consideration 
tlian  other  members  have  given  to  it,  and  I 
very  much  doubt  whether  he  would  make 
any  such  claim.  From  the  very  fact  that  he 
has  been  gone  so  long  I  do  not  consider  that 
it  is  due  to  him,  that  this  Convention  should 
delay  on  his  account. 

Mr.  BALCOMBE.  I  would  not  have  it 
understood  that  I  am  in  favor  of  pressing  the 
Convention  to  vote  to-day  upon  the  various 
committees  or  upon  the  gentleman's  substi- 


158 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Tuesday,  July  28. 


tute,  but  my  idea  is  that  if  we  want  to  await 
the  return  of  the  Chairman  of  the  committee, 
or  if  we  want  more  time  to  consider  the  sub- 
ject, the  proper  way  would  be  to  lay  the  re- 
port upon  the  table,  where  we  can  get  at  it 
at  any  time.  It  is  the  re-committal  to  the 
committee  to  which  I  am  so  much  opposed, 
thereby  compelling  us  to  go  over  the  whole 
matter  again  in  the  committee  of  the  Whole 
upon  the  new  report  wliich  that  committee 
might  make.  I  am  opposed,  too,  to  sending 
this  substitute  to  the  office  to  be  printed, 
thereby  incurring  still  further  expense.  Our 
expenses  will  be  sufficient  without  incurring 
any  that  are  unnecessary. 

I  move  that  the  report  together  Math  the 
substitute  be  laid  upon  the  table. 

Mr.  McCLURE.  I  suppose  all  debate  is 
cut  off  by  that  motion.  1  see  some  gentle- 
men here  who  always  violate  the  rule  by 
making  two  or  three  speeches,  and  then  cut 
off"  all  debate  by  some  motion. 

Mr.  BALCOMBE.  I  withdraw  my  motion 
if  the  gentlemftn  wishes  to  speak. 

Mr.  McCLURE.  I  do  not  wish  to  take  up 
the.time  of  the  Convention, 

Mr.  NORTH.  I  wish  simply  to  say  that 
if  we  had  gone  directly  to  work  after  we  had 
reconsidered  the  motion  to  print,  we  should 
have  got  half  through  the  bUl  before  this  time. 
I  am  decidedly  opposed  to  spending  any  more 
time  in  discussing  the  merits  of  one  another 
here,  or  the  complaints  as  to  the  manner  in 
which  the  business  of  the  Convention  has 
been  done.  We  had  better  proceed  to  busi- 
ness at  once. 

I  hope  the  motion  to  re-commit  will  not 
prevail,  and  if  we  are  not  to  have  the  substi- 
tute printed,  I  hope  we  shall  proceed  section 
by  section  through  the  bill,  and  pass  upon  it 
to-day  and  have  something  finished. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  demand  the  yeas  and 
nays  upon  the  motion  to  re-commit. 

The  yeas  and  nays  were  ordered. 

The  roll  was  then  called,  and  it  was  de- 
cided in  the  negative,  yeas  8,  nays  41,  as  fol- 
lows: 

Jeo*— -Messrs.  Aldrich,  Bolles,  Folsom,  Hayden, 
Stannard,  Smith,  Watson  and  Wilson. — 8. 

Hays. — Messrs.  Anderson,  Aycr,  Balcombe,  Bald- 
win, Bates,  Bartholomew,  Butler,  Clcghorn,  Col- 
bum,  Coe,  Cederstom,  Coombs,  Davis,  Duley, 
Dickerson,  Eschlic,  Galbraith,  Gerrish,  Hall,  Hard- 
ing, Hudson,  llansoD,  lloUcy,  King,  Kemp,  Lylc, 


Mantor,  McCann,  McClure,  Morgan,  North,  Phelps, 
Perkins,  Putnam,  Peckham,  llobbins,  Russell, 
Secombe,  Vaughn,  Walker,  Winell,  and  Sheldon. 
—41. 

On  motion  of  Mr.  NORTH,  the  Convention 
then  proceeded  to  the  consideration  of  the 
amendments  to  the  report. 

The  first  question  being  on  the  substitute 
off"ered  by  Mr.  BOLLES. 

On  motion  of  Mr.  NORTH,  the  same  was 
laid  upon  the  table. 

The  amendments  reported  by  the  commit- 
tee of  the  whole  were  then  taken  up  and  con- 
sidered as  follows : 

First  amendment,  section  three,  line  two, 
insert  the  word  "  such,"  so  that  the  clause 
shall  read, — ■ 

"  Every  person  may  freely  speak,  write  and  pub- 
lish his  sentiments  on  all  subjects,  being  responsi- 
ble for  the  abuse  of  such  right." 

The  amendment  was  concurred  in. 

Third  amendment,  section  two,  insert  after 
the  word  "  libel"  the  words  "or  slander"  and 
after  the  word  "libellous"  the  words  "or 
slanderous,"  so  that  the  clause  shall  read, — 

"  In  all  criminal  prosecutions  or  indictments  for 
libel  or  slander  the  truth  may  be  given  in  evi- 
dence ;  and  if  it  shall  appear  to  the  jury  that  the 
matter  charged  as  libellous  or  slanderous  be  true, 
and  was  published  with  good  motives  and  for  jus- 
tifiable ends,  the  party  shall  be  acquitted  ;  and  the 
jury  shall  have  the  right  to  determine  the  law  and 
the  fact." 

The  amendment  was  concurred  in. 

Third  amendment,  section  two,  strike  out 
the  words  "  the  jury  shall  have  the  right  to 
"  determine  the  law  and  the  fact"  and  insert : 
"in  all  indictments  for  libel,  the  jury  after 
"  having  received  the  direction  of  the  court, 
"  shall  have  the  right,  to  determine  at  their 
"  discretion,  the  law  and  the  fact." 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  hope  that  amendment 
will  not  be  adopted.  I  do  not  understand 
that  it  changes  the  effect  of  the  provision  as 
it  now  stands.  As  it  now  stands,  under  the 
conunon  law,  the  jury  are  bound  by  the 
ruling  charge  of  the  judge,  and  if  they  find 
a  verdict  against  that  ruling  or  charge,  tlio 
verdict  could  be  properly  set  aside.  If  I  un- 
derstand the  object  of  the  provision  as  inserted 
here,  it  is  to  take  that  power  from  the  judge 
and  give  it  to  the  jury,  so  tliat  when  they 
have  heard  the  facts  in  the  case — and  they  will 
hear,  of  course,  for  their  enlightenment,  and 
the  law  from  both  sides,  and  in  addition  to 


MINNESOTA  CONTENTION  DEBATES— Tcesdat,  July  28. 


159 


that,  the  law  from  the  judge, — then  they  are 
made  the  judges,  not  only  of  the  facts  in  the 
case,  but  of  the  law.  Now  I  do  not  under- 
stand how  the  provision  of  the  amendment 
alters  it.  If  it  does  alter  it,  it  destroys  the 
whole  effect  which  is  intended  to  be  obtained. 

There  is  another  difference,  it  makes  a  dis- 
tiaction  between  libel  and  slander.  And  if 
that  was  the  intention  of  the  mover  of  the 
amendment  I  should  still  be  oposed  to  it,  for 
I  cannot  consent  to  have  libel,  or  written 
slander,  receive  a  benefit  which  is  denied  to 
spoken  slander.  Slander  when  spoken  has 
but  a  small  circle  in  which  it  moves,  but  when 
it  is  written  or  printed  it  circulates  not  only 
more  widely,  but  through  a  longer  lapse  of 
time,  and  it  certainly  should  have  no  privilege 
over  slander.  But  I  suppose  that  was  a  dis- 
crepancy which  arose  from  the  fact  that  the 
amendment  which  has  been  adopted,  was 
then  under  discussion.  I  am  opposed  to  the 
amendment. 

Mr.  "WILSON.  I  think,  Mr.  President, 
that  the  amendment  contains  about  the  idea 
we  wish  to  incorporate.  There  are  two 
theories  upon  the  subject, — an  old  one,  revered 
by  many  in  our  midst,  that  the  court  shall 
determine  the  law — which  is  the  case  in  civil 
actions,  and  in  most  cases  in  ciiminal  actions. 
The  other  is  that  the  jury  shall  determine  the 
law  as  well  as  the  fact.  I  am  in  favor  of  the 
latter  with  a  modification.  There  is  not  a 
man  in  the  room  who  has  sat  upon  a  jury  in 
a  criminal  case  but  has  noticed  the  fact,  that 
juries  are  generally  composed  of  a  class  of 
men  who  do  not  see  the  point  as  quickly  as 
might  be,  and  that  after  a  long  and  intricate 
case  has  been  gone  through  with,  a  little 
explanation  makes  the  point  clear  to  them.  I 
wish  to  make  it  the  duty  of  the  judge  to  state 
to  the  jury  what  the  law  is.  Here  is  coimisel 
on  the  one  side,  and  coimsel  on  the  other. 
We  do  know  that  counsel,  honest  as  they 
may  be,  when  engaged  in  any  case,  naturally 
^vill  lean  towards  their  own  side,  and  they  try 
to  make  that  side  the  stronger.  How  fre- 
quently do  we  hear  our  coimsel 'declare— -and 
especially  wiU  that  be  the  case  when  the  jury 
are  made  judges  of  the  law — ^that  the  law  is 
so  and  so,  while  the  other  declares  that  such 
is  not  the  fact.  Now  the  judge,  sitting  upon 
the  bench,  is  supposed  to  know  what  the  law 
is,  and  he  usually  does  know.    The  judge  is 


not  interested,  he  is  not  feed  upon  either  side; 
nor  are  his  prejudices  and  feelings  enlisted  on 
either  side.  He  sits  as  a  moderator  upon  both 
parties,  and  he  states  to  the  jury  what  the  law 
is.  After  that  time  the  jury  are  left  at  perfect 
freedom  to  decide  whether  the  law  is  interpre- 
ted by  the  judges  or  not.  All  that  is  proposed 
by  this  amendment  is  that  the  judge  shall 
state  the  law  to  the  jury,  for  the  purpose  of 
enUghtening  them — which  I  think  is  necessary 
in  almost  every  case.  After  he  has  done  so, 
it  is  at  their  discretion  to  decide  whichever 
way  they  please.  It  is  not  the  same  provis* 
ion  that  is  contained  in  the  original  section, 
nor  does  it  destroy  any  principle  contained  in 
that  section. 

Mr.  NORTH.  I  differ  with  the  gentleman 
who  has  just  taken  his  seat,  and  I  hope  the 
amendment  will  not  be  conciured  in,  for  this 
reason :  if  it  is  necessary  at  all  to  legislate 
upon  the  duties  of  the  judge  and  jury,  and 
especially  to  change  the  law  either  in  civil  or 
criminal  cases,  I  do  not  think  that  this  is  the 
place  to  do  it.  We  simply  set  forth  the  rights 
and  powers  of  juries  in  this  case,  and  that  is 
all  we  need  to  do.  I  suppose  that  it  is  under- 
stood that  the  power  of  the  judge  to  charge 
the  jury  in  cases  of  slander,  as  well  as  in  aU 
other  cases,  is  already  abundantly  secured. 
But  even  if  it  is  necessary  to  have  a  special 
law  to  that  effect,  it  is  better  to  have  it  else- 
where than  in  the  BiU  of  Rights. 

Mr.  McCLURE.  I  hope  the  amendment 
will  be  concurred  in.  I  was  opposed  to  this 
amendment  when  it  was  first  suggested  by 
the  gentlemen  from  Winona,  (Mr.  Wilson.) 
I  do  not  understand  that  the  original  report 
of  the  committee  prohibited  the  judge  fit)m 
instructing  the  jury  upon  any  point  of  law 
which  either  party  might  require.  Hence  I 
should  ha'^e  been  entirely  opposed  to  any 
amendment  upon  that  ground,  beUeving  as  I 
do,  that  either  party  may  ask  the  court  to 
charge  the  jury  in  regard  to  it.  The  court 
may  give  it,  and  the  jury  give  what  weight 
they  choose  to  it.  But  I  am  in  favor  of  the 
amendment  now,  from  the  fact  that  it  wiU 
have  an  important  bearing  to  show  what  the 
sense  of  this  Convention  is  upon  another 
point — that  is  upon  the  amendment  which  has 
just  been  adopted — offered  by  the  gentleman 
fix)m  St.  Anthony,  (Mr.  Secombe)  inserting 
the    words    "slander"    and    "slanderous" 


160 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Tuesday,  July  23. 


whereby  we  said  that  an  indictment  under 
the  laws  of  the  land  may  be  sustained  for 
verbal  slander.  Now  it  seems  to  me  that  this 
amendment  of  the  gentleman  from  Winona, 
will  show,  when  this  clause  of  the  Constitu- 
tion goes  out  to  the  people,  that  it  was  not 
the  intention  of  this  Convention  to  say  any 
such  thing,  for  he  confines  his  amendn>ent  to 
the  term  "libel."  It  seems  to  me  that  it  will 
show  conclusively  that  this  Convention  never 
did  intend  to  say  that  an  indictment  could  be 
found  for  verbal  slander.  I  am  in  favor  of  it 
upon  that  ground,  in  order  that  it  may  place 
us  right  upon  that  subject ;  for  so  far  as  I  am 
concerned,  I  do  not  wish  to  have  it  under- 
stood that  I  would  advocate  and  vote  for  this 
clruse  without  the  term  "  slander  "  in  it,  for  I 
do  not  imderstand  that,  according  to  the  laws 
of  this  country,  an  indictment  can  be  found 
against  an  individual  for  verbal  slander. 

Mr.  NORTH.  I  am  still  opposed  to  the 
amendment,  and  for  the  very  reason  just 
assigned.  I  am  decidedly  opposed  to  this 
Convention  instituting  a  distinction  which 
has  not  been  heretofore  instituted,  and  a  dis- 
tinction which,  to  my  mind,  has  no  founda- 
tion in  reason  or  philosophy — a  distinction 
between  a  slander  uttered  by  the  mouth  and 
that  uttered  by  the  pen.  The  idea  of  making 
an  act  a  penal  offence  and  indictable,  when 
done  in  one  way,  and  not  when  done  in 
another,  is  nonsense.  I  do  not  know  why  it 
is  not  just  as  wrong  for  me  to  accuse  my 
neighbor  of  theft  or  robbery,  and  circulate 
that  with  my  lips,  whispering  it  here  and 
there  through  the  community  wherever  I  could 
get  an  opportunity,  and  why  it  is  not  as  com- 
mon to  produce  injurious  results  in  that  man- 
ner, as  it  is  to  sit  down  and  write  that  same 
thing  and  publish  it  through  the  newspapers. 
I  do  not  know  why  the  effect  is  not  the  same. 
I  do  not  know  why  the  thing  itself  is  not  the 
same,  and  it  seems  to  me  that  the  law  author- 
ities have  so  regarded  it.  I  do  not  see  any 
reason  why  this  Convention  should  make  any 
distinction  in  that  particular. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  feel  called  upoh  to 
make  a  few  furtlicr  remarks  upon  this  sub- 
ject. I  supposed  after  I  read  the  authority 
upon  this  subject  the  other  day,  while  wo 
were  in  committee  of  the  Whole,  that  no 
member  of  this  Convention  would  think  it  an 
extraordinary    thing    that    this    Convention 


should  recognize  the  principles  of  the  Ameri-' 
can  common  law  as  laid  down  in  every  ele- 
mentary treatise  published  in  this  country. 
When  I  oflfered,  in  the  committee  of  the 
Whole,  an  amendment  to  insert  the  words 
" slander,"  and  "slanderous,"  in  connection' 
with  "libel,"  and  "libelous."  I  never  sup- 
posed any  gentleman  would  raise  that  ques- 
tion. I  did  not  have  any  doubt  in  my  own 
mind,  bnt  after  a  gentleman  did  raise  the 
question,  I  immediately  began  to  look  about 
to  see  if  I  had  made  such  an  egregious  blun- 
der as  that.  I  found  that  a  majority  of  tho 
legal  members  of  this  Convention  differed 
with  me  upon  that  point,  and  I  took  the  pains 
to  consult  the  authorities  upon  the  subject, 
and  I  laid  my  hand  on  Wuakton's  American 
common  law,  and  read  from  it  the  other  day.- 
I  now  propose  to  read  the  same  sections 
again. 

On  pages  five  hundred  and  thirty-four  and 
five  of  that  work,  I  find  the  following : 

"An  indictment  will  lie  for  all  words  spoken  of 
another  which  impute  to  him  the  commission  of 
some  crime  punishable  by  law,  such  as  high  trea- 
son, murder,  or  other  felony  (whether  by  statute 
or  at  common  law)  forgery,  perjury,  subornation 
of  perjury,  and  other  misdemeanors." 

"An  indictment  will  lie  for  all  words  spoken  of 
another  which  will  have  the  effect  of  excluding 
him  from  society,  as  for  instance  to  cliarge  him 
with  having  an  infectious  disease,  such  as  leprosy, 
the  vchereal  disease,  the  itch  or  the  like.  But 
charging  him  with  having  had  a  contagious  dis- 
ease is  not  actionable,  for,  as  this  relates  to  time 
past,  it  is  no  reason  why  his  society  should  be 
avoided  ai  present." 

On  page  five  hundred  and  thirty-six  the 
limitation  of  this  doctrine  is  found : 

"No  indictment  however  will  lie  for  words  not 
reduced  to  writing  unless  they  be  seditious,  blas- 
phemous, grossly  immoral,  or  uttered  to  a  magis- 
trate in  the  execution  of  his  office,  or  uttered  as  a 
challenge  to  fight  a  duel,  or  with  an  intention  to 
provoke  the  other  party  to  send  a  challenge." 

Now  it  seems  to  me,  there  is  authority 
which  this  Convention  need  not  feel  ashamed 
to  recognize.  If  this  amendment  prevails, 
after  the  recommendation  of  the  committee  of 
the  Whole  shall  have  been  passed  upon,  I 
shall  move  an  additional  amendment  to  this 
very  section,  as  it  will  stand  amended,  to 
insert  the  word  "slander,"  in  this  very 
place. 

A  word  further  in  regard  to  the  interpreta- 
tion given  by  the  gentleman  from  Winona  to 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Tlksday,  Jlly  28. 


161 


tiie  object  of  this  provision,  and  that  is  that 
the  judge  might  act  as]  the  tMrd  counsel  in 
tlie  case,  that  he  might  have  the  privilege  of 
arguing  to  the  jury  what  the  law  was,  and 
that  they  then  should  decide  it  according  to 
their  own  discretion.  I  would  be  the  last  one 
to  inflict  upon  the  judge  the  duty  of  stating 
the  law  to  the  jury  with  the  tmderstanding 
that  it  was  mere  gratuitous  advice  upon  his 
part.  If  the  judge  is  to  decide  the  law,  let  it 
be  so  understood,  and  if  the  jury  are  to  de- 
cide the  law,  let  that  be  equally  well  under- 
stood, and  then  let  the  judge  use  his  discre- 
tion about  charging  the  jury. 

Mr.  MORGAN.  I  hope  the  amendment 
wiU  not  prevail,  and  if  it  does  not,  I  shall 
move  to  strike  out  all  after  the  word  "  ac- 
quitted," in  this  section,  for  the  purpose  of 
inserting  the  general  rule  by  adding  thereto 
the  words  "in  all  criminal  cases  the  jury 
shall  have  the  right  to  determine  the  law  and 
fact."  As  the  section  now  stands  it  is  unne- 
cessary and  partial,  for  it  only  applies  to 
cases  of  libel  and  slander.  It  is  a  well  un- 
derstood rule  of  law  that  in  all  cases  the  jury 
are  obliged  to  determine  the  law  and  the  fact. 
That  has  always  been  admitted.  No  jury 
can  ever  determine  and  find  a  verdict  in  a 
criminal  case,  without,  to  some  extent,  de- 
termining the  law.  A  man,  for  instance,  is 
charged  with  burglary,  and  the  first  question 
to  determine  is  whether  the  facts  constitute, 
in  law,  burglary ;  or  whether  it  is  petty  lar- 
ceny, or  some  other  ofiense.  It  is  in  fact,  the 
common  law  rule,  recognized  not  only  in  this 
country  but  in  England,  that  the  jury  must 
in  every  criminal  case,  to  some  extent,  deter- 
mine the  law.  That  is,  whether  the  crime 
charged  was  committed  in  fact,  and  whether 
the  facts  with  which  the  criminal  is  charged, 
do,  in  fact,  constitute  that  crime.  If  the 
criminal  is  charged  with  murder,  the  first 
thing  to  determine  is  whether  murder  has 
been  committed,  or  whether  it  is  not  man- 
slaughter. 

It  seems  to  me  the  rule  should  be  general, 
and  that  there  should  be  inserted  a  clause 
such  as  I  have  mentioned.  The  rule  has 
been  more  extended  in  some  States  than  in 
others,  and  there  has  been  some  very  laugha- 
ble results  from  it.  I  recollect  that  upon  the 
trial  in  Massachusetts  of  some  persons 
charged  with  a.«!sisting  in  the  escape  of  fugi- 
21 


tive  slaves,  the  people  of  that  State  thought 
that  the  law  in  reference  to  instruction  to 
juries,  was  rather  too  harsh,  and  they  passed 
a  law  leaving  it  to  the  jury  to  decide  tlie  law 
in  criminal  cases.  The  first  application  of 
that  law  made  by  juries,  was  to  decide  that 
the  Maine  liquor  law  was  unconstitutional. 
And  in  every  case  which  was  brought  up  in 
Boston,  the  juries  decided  that  the  law  was 
not  law  because  it  was  imconstitutional,  and 
there  was  no  case  of  conviction  under  that 
law  for  more  than  two  years,  because  the 
juries  had  the  right  to  decide  what  was  law 
and  what  was  not  law. 

But  it  seems  to  me  there  is  no  question  but 
that  jurors  have  always  had  the  right  to  de- 
cide the  law  in  criminal  cases, 

Mr.  LOWE  demanded  the  yeas  and  nays 
upon  the  amendment. 

The  yeas  and  nays  were  ordered. 

The  question  was  then  taken  and  it  was 
decided  in  the  negative. 

Yeas  twenty-one,  and  nays  thirty-one,  as 
follows : 

Teas — Messrs.  Aldridh,  Anderson,  Balcombe, 
Billings,  Butler,  Cederstam,  Dickerson,  Folsom, 
Gerrish,  Hajden,  Holley,  Lisle,  Lowe,  Mantor, 
McCann,  McClure,  Mills,  Peckham,  Smith,  "Walker, 
and  Wilson — 21. 

Nays — Messrs.  Aver,  Baldwin,  Bates,  Bartholo- 
mew, Bolles,  Cleghom,  Colburn,  Coe,  Davis, 
Duley,  Eschlie,  Galbraith,  Hall,  Harding,  Hud- 
son, Hanson,  King,  Kemp,  Morgan,  North,  Phelps, 
Perkins,  Putnam,  Bobbins,  Russell,  Stannard, 
Secombe,  Vaughn,  Winell,  Watson  and  Sheldon. 
— 31i 

Mr.  KING  moved  (at  fovur  o'clock  and  ten 
minutes)  that  the  Convention  adjourn. 

The  motion  was  not  agreed  to. 

Fourth  Amendment. — 

(A  mere  verbal  amendment,  and  was  con- 
curred in.) 

Fifth  Amendment. — Strike  out  all  of  section 
seven  and  insert  the  following : 

"  In  all  criminal  prosecutions  the  accused  shall 
enjoy  the  right  to  a  speedy  and  public  trial  by  an 
impartial  jury  of  the  county  or  district  wherein 
the  criminal  shall  have  been  committed,  which 
county  or  district  shall  have  been  previously  ascer- 
tained by  law,  and  to  be  informed  of  the  nature 
and  cause  of  the  accusation  against  him ;  to  be 
confronted  with  the  witnesses  against  him ;  to  have 
compulsory  process  for  obtaining  witnesses  in  his 
favor,  and  to  hava  the  assistance  of  coonsel  for  his 
defence. 

Mr.  HUDSON.  I  cannot  understand  that 
there  is  any  difference  between  that  substi- 


162 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Tuesday,  Jult  28. 


tute  and  the  original  section,  except  in  the 
phraseology.  The  original  section  is  in  these 
words : 

"In  all  criminal  prosecutions  the  accused  shall 
enjoy  the  right  to  be  heard  by  himself  and  counsel; 
to  demand  the  nature  and  cause  of  the  accusation 
against  him  ;  to  meet  the  witnesses  face  to  face  ; 
to  have  compulsory  process  to  compel  the  attend- 
ance of  witnesses  in  his  behalf,  and  in  prosecutions 
by  indictment  or  information,  to  a  speedy  public 
trial  by  an  impartial  jurj'  of  the  county  or  district 
wherein  the  offence  shall  have  been  committed, 
which  county  or  district  shall  have  been  previously 
ascertained  by  law." 

If  there  is  to  be  any  amendments  made  to 
that,  I  suppose  it  would  be  the  particular 
business  of  tlie  committee  on  Arrangement 
and  Phraseology  to  suggest  it,  and  tmless  we 
can  materially  improve  it,  I  do  not  see  why 
we  should  adopt  the  substitute. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  would  state  for  the 
information  of  the  gentleman,  that  the  provis- 
ion in  question,  offered  as  an  amendment  in 
committee  of  the  Whole,  was  agreed  upon 
after  a  long  discussion  and  the  offering  of  a 
great  many  propositions  as  amendments. 
This  amendment  is  equivalent  to  a  provision 
in  the  Constitution  of  the  United  States,  and 
was  adopted  as  a  union  measure.  That 
accounts  for  its  appearance  here,  and  yet 
perhaps  it  is  not  materially  different  from  the 
original  section. 

Mr.  PERKINS.  The  intention  and  pur- 
port of  the  original  section  is  the  same  as  a 
similar  section  in  the  Constitution  of  the 
United  States.  But  it  was  not  expressed  in 
precisely  the  same  language,  and  in  my 
opinion  not  as  good  language.  The  clause  in 
the  Constitution  of  the  United  States,  like 
most  clauses  in  that  instrument,  has  received 
a  judicial  interpretation,  and  has  come  to  be 
understood  very  uniformly.  The  language 
used  there  is  significant,  and  expi'esses  just 
the  idea  intended  to  be  conveyed.  There  was 
some  debate  in  the  committee  upon  the  mean- 
ing of  this  section.  There  was  more  particu- 
larly a  discussion  upon  the  meaning  of  the 
words  "  to  meet  the  witnesses  face  to  face," 
and  as  it  reads  in  the  original  clause  without 
any  addition  to  it,  in  my  judgment  it  means 
nothing  at  all.  It  was  to  get  rid  of  such 
equivocal  clauses,  that  the  words  of  the  Con- 
stitution of  the  United  States  were  adopted 
word  for  word,  and  it  seems  to  me  no  gen- 


tleman can  object  to  a   substitute    of  that 
kind. 

The  amendment  was  concurred  in. 

Sixth  Amendment. — Section  eight,  after  the 
word  "himself"  insert  the  words,  "nor  be  de- 
prived of  life,  liberty  or  property  without  due 
process  of  law." 

The  amendment  was  concurred  in. 

Seventh  Amendment. — Section  fourteen,  strike 
out  the  word  "  agricultural." 

The  original  clause  of  the  section  reads  as 
follows ; 

"Leases  and  grants  of  agricultural  land  for  a 
longer  term  than  fifteen  years,  in  which  rent  or 
service  of  any  kind  shall  be  reserved,  and  all  fines 
and  like  restraints  upon  alienation  reserved  in  any 
grant  of  land  hereafter  made,  are  declared  to  be 
void." 

Mr.  MORGAN.  I  hope  the  amendment 
will  not  be  concurred  in.  Sueh  a  provision 
would  be  unprecedented.  I  do  not  think  that 
a  provision  prohibiting  the  lease  of  land  not 
agricultural,  can  be  found  in  the  Constitution 
of  any  State  of  the  Union.  Leases  of  non-' 
agricultural  lands  are  as  common  as  any 
mode  of  conveyance.  Leases  of  town  lots 
for  fifty  or  a  hundred  years  are  veiy  common, 
and  leases  of  water  power  and  other  rights 
have  been  common  in  every  country.  Now 
I  apprehend  that  the  object  of  a  Bill  of  Rights 
is  to  protect  persons  in  their  rights,  and  not 
to  prohibit  their  use.  We  undertake  to  say 
here,  that  a  man  who  holds  a  lot  of  land,  shall 
not  have  it  for  more  than  fifteen  years.  That 
is  a  direct  prohibition  of  the  use  of  his  land^ 
I  do  not  sec  vrhy,  if  I  desire  to  keep  a  piece 
of  land  for  my  children,  I  should  be  deprived 
of  the  privilege  of  leasing  it  more  than  fifteen 
years.  In  many  cases  it  is  an  advantageous 
mode  of  dealing  with  property,  both  for  the 
lessor  and  the  lessee.  Town  lots  are  fre- 
quently leased  for  a  long  time  for  the  purpose 
of  being  built  upon,  and  both  parties  derive 
advantage  from  it — the  party  owning  the  land 
being  able  to  lease  it,  and  to  receive  a  remun- 
erative rent  for  a  long  period  of  time,  and  the 
lessee  being  able  to  get  it  at  a  rate  wliich  will 
justify  his  putting  improvements  upon  it. 
There  are  many  instances  where  it  is  actually 
necessary,  in  order  that  the  parties  may 
receive  an  adequate  benefit,  that  they  should 
have  the  right  of  leasing  for  a  considerable 
length  of  time. 

The  amendment  makes  the  section  apply  to 
all  lands.     The  objection  to  a  restriction  to 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Tuesday,  July  28. 


163 


agricultural  lands  is  not  so  great  as  to  other 
lands.  Such  a  provision  has  been  introduced 
into  the  Constitution  of  Wisconsin.  It  was 
thought  a  great  innovation  to  introduce  it  there. 

I  do  not  see  the  particular  object  of  intro- 
ducing this  into  the  Bill  of  Rights  at  all. 
Bather  than  protecting  men  in  their  rights,  it 
restricts  them  in  the  enjojinent  of  them.  As 
to  the  extent  of  the  application  of  this  right 
to  the  disposal  of  property,  I  would  say  that 
the  "Lock  and  Canal  Company  "  of  Lowell, 
Massachusetts,  being  the  owner  of  the  whole 
water  power  at  that  place,  leased  out  water 
rights  and  land  right  s  for  the  period  of  nine 
hundred  and  ninety  nine  years,  so  that  the 
whole  power  might  be  used.  Those  water 
rights  are  now  held  under  those  leases,  and  it 
would  not  have  been  possible  to  divide  that 
power  in  any  other  way.  The  same  disposi- 
tion may  be  made  of  the  water  power  at  St. 
Anthony  Falls.  There  are  two  companies 
upon  both  sides  of  the  river  which  own  the 
whole  power,  and  they  hope  to  lease  it  out  to 
permanent  occupants  for  long  terms,  who  will 
thereby  be  justified  in  putting  permanent 
buildings  upon  it.  A  restiiction  of  tliis  kind 
would  interfere  very  materially  with  the 
rights  of  property  in  a  great  many  instances. 
There  are  leases  in  this  City  of  St.  Paul  for 
a  much  longer  period  than  fifteen  years.  A 
large  portion  of  the  territory  of  the  cities  of 
Baltimore  and  Philadelphia  are  held  under 
long  leases,  and  thereby  the  poor  man,  by 
paying  a  nominal  ground  rent,  is  enabled  to 
erect  a  dwelling  for  himself,  and  then  if  he 
desires  to  sell  it  he  seUs  his  lease. 

The  question  was  then  taken,  and  the 
amendment  was  not  concurred  in. 

Ninth  Amendment. — Section  sixteenth,  add 
thereto  the  words  "except  in  cases  of  fraud"  so 
that  it  shall  read: 

"No  person  shall  be  imprisoned  for  debt  arising 
out  or  founded  upon  any  contract  expressed  or 
implied,  unless  in  cases  of  fraud." 

The  amendment  was  concurred  in. 

Tenth  Amendment. — Section  seventeen,  after  the 
word  "wholesome"  insert  the  word  "exemption" 
and  strike  out  all  after  the  word  "laws"  so  that  the 
section  shall  read : 

"  The  right  of  the  debtor  to  enjoy  the  necessary 
comforts  of  life  shall  be  recognized  by  wholesome 
exemption  laws." 

Mr.  ALDRICH  called  for  a  division  of  the 
question,  first  on  inserting,  and  then  upon 
striking  out. 


The  question  was  taken  upon  each  portion 
of  the  amendment  separately,  and  they  were 
severally  concurred  in. 

Eleventh  Amendment. — Section  eighteen,  after 
the  word  "ajy"  insert  the  words  "religious  or 
"  ecclesiastical,"  so  that  that  clause  of  the  section 
shall  read : 

"  The  right  of  every  man  to  worship  God  ac- 
cording to  the  dictates  of  his  own  conscience  shall 
never  be  infringed ;  nor  shall  any  man  be  com- 
pelled to  attend,  erect  or  support  any  place  of  wor- 
ship, or  to  maintain  any  religious  or  ecclesiastical 
ministry  against  his  consent." 

Mr.  MORGAN.  I  would  state  to  the  Con- 
vention that  the  reason  why  I  offered  that 
amendment  was,  because  the  word  "  minis- 
try" is  a  general  term,  and  originally  meant 
"  servant,"  and  it  is  frequently  used  in  that 
sense  now.  We  have  the  ministry,  for  in- 
stance, of  instruction.  The  intention  was 
to  provide  against  the  compulsory  attendance 
or  support  of  any  reli^ous  ministry. 

The  amendment  was  concurred  in.- 

Twelfth  Amendment. — Strike  out  all  of  section 
twenty-four,  and  insert  the  following : 

"  Dueling  is  an  evil  and  shall  never  be  allowed 
in  this  State." 

Mr.  NORTH.  I  move  to  strike  out  of  the 
substitute  the  words  "  dueling  is  an  evil." 

The  amendment  was  agreed  to. 

Mr.  LOWE.  I  now  submit  to  the  Con- 
vention whether  it  is  not  advisable  to  strike 
out  the  rest  of  the  substitute.  It  strikes  me 
that  we  have  so  reduced  the  section  that  it 
soimds  quite  flat,  and  I  hope  it  will  all  be  left 
out. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  am  opposed  to  the 
amendment  as  it  now  stands,  or  as  it  stood 
before  amended.  I  would  not  consent  to  have 
any  provision  in  regard  to  dueling  in  the  Con- 
stitution, except  as  a  disqualification  for  of- 
fice. I  do  not  know  why  we  should  pick  out 
any  particular  crime,  and  say  that  it  shall  not 
exist  in  this  State.  We  might  as  well  say 
that  the  crime  of  miwder,  manslaughter,  or 
larceny  shall  not  exist  in  this  State.  But  I 
think  it  would  be  proper  to  say  that  dueling 
should  be  a  disqualification  for  office.  I 
should  be  in  favor  of  that  and  that  only. 
Consequently  I  am  in  favor  of  the  section  as 
it  originally  stood,  before  it  was  amended  by 
the  committee. 

The  amendment  was  then  non-concurred 
in. 


XH 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Tuesday,  July  28. 


Thirteenth  Amendment. — Strike  out  all  of  sec- 
tion twenty -five  which  is  as  follows : 

"The  criminal  code  shall  be  founded  on  prin- 
ciples of  reformation  and  not  of  vindictive  jus- 
tice." 

The  amendment  was  not  concurred  in. 
'•  Fourteenth   Amendment. — Insert  the  following 
additional  section : 

Sec.  —  The  enumeration  of  the  foregoing  rights 
shall  not  be  construed  to  impair  or  deny  any  others 
retained  by  the  people." 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  think  the  language  of 
that  section  should  be  slightly  altered.  I  do 
not  understand  that  the  people  are  giving  up 
any  rights  by  declaring  this  Bill  of  Rights. 
The  word  ''  retain"  was  the  word  used  in  the 
Constitution  of  the  United  States  where  the 
States  did  give  up  to  the  general  government 
certain  rights,  and  that  word  would  be  proper 
in  case  the  people  were  giving  up,  by  this  bill, 
certain  of  their  rights.  I  move  to  amend  by 
striking  out  the  word  "  retain"  and  ipsert  the 
word  "  possessed." 

Mr.  MORGAN.  I  hope  the  amendment 
recommended  by  the  committee  will  not  be 
concurred  in.  It  seems  to  me  mere  surplus- 
sage,  having  no  force  whatever.  The  section 
was  taken  from  the  Constitution  of  the  United 
States,  which  was  adopted  under  different 
circumstances  from  ours.  There  the  people 
did  give  up  certain  rights  to  the  general  gov- 
ernment. But  the  section  has  no  application 
to  our  case,  and  it  has  never  been  inserted  in 
the  Constitution  of  any  State.  We  retain  all 
the  rights  we  had  before,  and  the  Bill  of 
Rights  is  merely  a  guarantee  to  us  of  those 
rights. 

Mr.  ALDRICH.  It  seems  to  me  that  the 
section  is  all  right  as  it  now  stands.  The  ob- 
ject is  to  give  a  portion  of  the  people's  rights 
to  the  oflBcers  of  the  government,  and  to  re- 
tain a  portion.  It  strikes  me  that  the  word 
*'  retain"  is  a  better  word  than  "  possess," 
and  we  certainly  have  some  rights  which  we 
have  not  delegated  to  anybody,  and  which  we 
vill  not  delate. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  do  not  understand  tliat 
in  this  bill  we  delegate  any  of  our  rights  to 
any  person  or  body.  We  merely  enunciate 
certain  of  the  principal  rights  that  we  possess 
and  we  do  not  wish  to  have  it  understood  by 
that  enunciation,  because  we  do  not  happen 
to  mention  certain  other."?,  that  we  have  not 
got  them. 


Mr.  ALDRICH.  We  do  not  delegate  them 
in  the  Bill  of  Rights,  but  we  do  in  the  Con- 
stitution before  we  get  through. 

Tlie  amendment  to  the  section  was  not 
agreed  to. 

Mr.  NORTH.  I  now  hope  the  additional 
section  will  not  be  agreed  to.  It  seems  to  me 
to  be  entirely  unnecessary,  to  be  meaningless, 
and  that  it  can  have  no  real  force.  In  fact  it 
amounts  to  nothing.  In  the  Bill  of  Rights 
we  simply  set  forth  certain  rights,  but  we  do 
not  propose  to  take  any  rights  from  anybody, 
and  to  say  that  the  setting  forth  any  rights 
we  do  not  impair  any  rights  we  retain,  is  sur- 
plusage and  can  have  no  effect  in  any  man- 
ner. I  do  not  think  we  should  encumber  our 
Bill  of  Rights  with  anj^thing  which  does  not 
have  a  direct,  plain,  and  tangible  meaning. 

The  amendment  was  not  concurred  in. 

Mr.  NORTH.  I  now  move  to  insert  tho 
following  additional  section : 

"  Sec.  —  Married  women  shall  have  the  right  to; 
hold  and  convey  real  and  personal  property  in 
their  own  right  and  separately  from  their  hus- 
bands". 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  move  to  amend  that 
amendment,  by  adding  thereto  the  words 
"and  to  contract  on  their  own  behalf." 

Mr.  NORTH.     I  accept  the  amendment. 

Mr.  BILLINGS,     To  contract  what? 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  Any  and  every  thing 
they  please.  My  object  is  to  put  women 
upon  the  same  footing  witht  men  in  regard  to 
doing  business,  so  that  she  may  enter  into, 
business  upon  her  own  account,  buy  and  sell, 
and  enter  into  contracts  of  aU  kinds  in  the  same 
way  and  manner  that  a  man  does.  I  think 
there  is  a  Constitutional  provision  like  this 
in  tlie  Constitution  of  CaUfo3,Tia,  and  I  would 
like  to  see  it  adopted  here.  If  women  are  to. 
hold  property  in  their  own  names,  they  should 
have  the  right  to  use  that  property  so  as  to 
increase  it. 

Mr.  LOWE.  The  gentleman  would  do. 
well  to  mention  also,  that  we  leam  by  the 
last  accounts  from  California,  that  that  pro- 
vision has  been  found  to  operate  so  badly, 
that  the  people  desire  to  repeal  it.  I  am  in 
favor  of  doing  something  for  widows  too, 
(laughter)  and  for  the  whole  female  sex,  but 
it  may  be  objected  that  it  would  be  infring- 
ing upon  the  business  of  the  Legislature.  I 
wish  to  do  as  much  for  women  a."!  possible, 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Tuesday,  July  28. 


165 


but  not  in  violation  of  the  laws.   (Laugh- 
ter.) 

Mr.  WILSON.  Then  I  hope  it  is  a  joke 
all  thi-ough.  Tliis  matter  of  permitting  mar- 
ried women  to  dispose  of  their  property  with- 
out the  consent  of  their  husbands  is  all  wrong. 
The  husband  cannot  dispose  of  his  real  prop- 
erty \\'ithout  the  consent  of  his  wife,  and  now 
they  want  us  to  say  that  a  woman  is  not  only 
as  good  as  a  man  for  doing  business,  but  that 
she  is  his  superior.  A  husband  cannot  con- 
vey his  real  estate  and  deprive  his  w=ife  of  her 
dower,  but  you  would  allow  a  woman  to  con- 
vey her  real  estate  and  leave  the  husband  no 
right  in  it  whatever.  It  is  aU  wrong.  A 
woman  does  not  understand  any  thing  about 
buying  and  bartering  real  estate.  I  hope  we 
shall  be  serious  about  this  matter  or  else 
make  it  a  joke  out  and  out. 

Mr,  MANTOR.  Like  the  gentleman  from 
Winona,  I  really  imagined  that  when  that 
amendment  was  offered,  it  was  a  mere  mat- 
ter of  joke,  and  that  nobody  was  serious 
about  it.  But  it  proves  not  to  be  a  matter  of 
joke.  I  am  convinced  that  if  Astoixette  L. 
Brown-,  LrcY  Stone,  and  Abbey  Kelley 
should  hear  of  the  adoption  of  this  section, 
they  would  send  up  to  this  Convention  a  let- 
ter of  congratulation.  It  seems  to  me  a  pre- 
posterous idea,  although  in  this  day  of  new 
fangled  notions  it  is  not  to  be  wondered  at 
that  we  should  attempt  to  give  to  a  certain 
portion  of  the  fair  sex  the  right  to  hold  prop- 
erty in  their  own  names,  and  to  convey  it 
without  the  consent  of  their  husbands.  If 
this  appendage  is  to  be  added  to  our  Bill  of 
Eights,  I  should  be  in  favor  of  amending  it  so 
as  to  do  something  for  the  widows.  But  the 
whole  matter  seems  to  me  to  be  absurd  and 
ridiculous  in  the  extreme.  I  should  like  to 
see  the  matter  disposed  of  in  all  seriousness. 

Mr.  NORTH.  In  offeiing  that  section  in 
the  form  in  which  I  did,  I  intended  no  joke. 
I  meant  to  be  as  serious  as  the  gentlemen  who 
have  spoken  upon  the  subject,  and  I  meant  it 
to  the  fullest  extent  gentlemen  have  construed 
it — that  married  wonaen  should  have  the  right 
not  only  to  hold  personal  and  real  property 
in  their  own  right,  but  to  have  the  right  to 
convey  it  independently  and  freely  without 
any  control  whatever  upon  the  part  of  their 
husbands.  Now  it  may  be  that  that  is  going 
too  far,  and  that  the  hu.^band  should  have 


the  right  of  dower,  or  something  equivalent 
to  it.  But  in  the  state  of  facts  which  exist  it 
is  rare  for  a  maiTied  woman  to  hold  any  prop- 
erty at  all.  She  seldom  holds  property  in 
her  own  right  except  in  cases  in  which  it  is 
important  that  she  should  have  the  complete 
and  unrestricted  control  of  it.  How  often  do 
we  see  cases  where  the  friends  of  a  woman, 
having  a  dissipated  husband,  are  disposed  to 
do  something  for  her  and  her  children — are 
anxious  to  give  her  property  if  it  could  be 
placed  beyond  the  control  of  her  husband — 
but  are  prevented  from  doing  it  on  account 
of  liis  dissipated  habits.  There  may  indeed 
be  a  few  cases  where  this  provision  would 
work  an  inconvenience  and  wi'ong  to  the  hus- 
band, but  there  are  a  multitude  of  cases 
where  the  restraint  upon  a  woman's  convey- 
ing without  the  consent  of  her  husband,  does 
work  great  inconvenience  and  wrong.  I  think 
that  for  answering  the  ends  of  justice,  and 
subserving  the  object  for  which  that  provis- 
ion is  offered,  it  Ls  now  in  just  the  right  shape, 
but  if  any  one  wishes  to  change  it  so  as  to 
give  the  husband  the  right  to  dower  in  his 
wife's  real  estate,  I  shall  have  no  objection. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  was  equally  in  earnest 
in  proposing  the  amendment  I  did  ;  for  while 
I  hold  that  it  is  proper  and  right  that  married 
women  should  hold  property  in  their  own 
names,  whether  it  is  acquired  by  their  own 
labor,  or  bestowed  upon  them  as  a  gift,  or 
inherited,  I  at  the  same  time  beheve  that  wo- 
men should  have  the  right  to  use  their  property 
to  the  best  advantage,  so  that  they  may  in- 
crease it,  so  that  if  it  is  a  benefit  to  her  in  its 
original  state,  it  will  be  increased  by  this 
privilege. 

Gentlemen  have  stated  that  if  this  provis- 
ion is  adopted,  they  should  be  obliged  to 
move  an  additional  section  in  favor  of  wid- 
ows. I  take  it  that  there  is  no  gentieman 
here  who  does  not  know  that  unmarried 
women  have  the  right  to  hold  property  and  to 
buy  and  sell,  and  carry  on  business.  It  is 
not  necessary  that  a  person  should  be  a  male 
in  order  to  hold  property  and  do  business. 
But  it  is  necessary  that  there  should  be  some 
provision  in  regard  to  married  women,  to  give 
them  the  same  rights  that  single  women  have. 
I  therefore  hope  the  amendment  offered  by 
the  gentleman  from  Rice  county  will  pass. 

The  gentleman  from  Winona  [Mr.  WilsoxJ 


166 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Wednesday,  July  29. 


complains  that  the  husband  cannot  sell  his 
real  estate  without  the  joining  of  the  wife,  so 
as  to  cut  off  her  right  of  dower.  The  gen- 
tleman from  Winona  will  admit  that  the  wife 
cannot  sell  her  real  estate  without  the  joining 
of  her  husband  so  as  to  cut  off  his  right  by 
courtesy,  which  is  given  by  the  same  code  of 
laws  wliich  gives  the  right  of  dower  to  the 
wife. 

Mr.  MORGAN.  It  seems  to  me  that  this 
is  going  a  little  too  far.  As  th«  law  now  is 
the  wife  has  the  right  of  dower  in  her  hus- 
band's real  estate,  and  the  husband  cannot 
cut  it  off  by  a  conveyance  during  his  life  time, 
nor  by  devise.  As  an  offset  to  that  tlie  hus- 
band has  always  had  the  right  to  courtesy  in 
the  wife's  real  estate, — that  is,  when  the  wife 
dies  and  leaves  real  estate  the  husband  has 
the  right  of  using  that  real  estate  during  his 
life  time,  and  he  is  called  tenant  by  courtesy. 
Now  what  is  proposed  by  this  section  is,  not 
only  to  allow  the  wife  to  take  and  hold  her 
right  of  dower  to  the  full  extent,  but  to  cut 
off  the  husband's  right  to  courtesy  by  allow- 
ing her  to  convey  without  the  husband's  con- 
sent; or  to  devise  so  that  after  her  death  h« 
can  have  no  interest  in  her  real  estate.  It 
seems  to  me  that  that  is  going  further  than  is 
required  of  us.  I  am  perfectly  willing  to 
protect  a  married  woman's  property  to  a  rea- 
sonable extent,  but  no  further.  I  tliink  this 
section  goes  too  far. 

Mr.  NORTH.  I  have  no  idea  that  we  can 
get  through  with  this  amendment  this  even- 
ing, and  therefore  I  move  that  the  Convention 
adjourn. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to,  and  thereupon 
the  Convention,  (at  five  o'clock  and  fifteen 
minutes)  adjourned. 


FIFTEENTH  DAY. 

Wednesday,  July  29,  1857. 
The  Convention  met  at  nine  o'clock,  a.  m. 
Prayer  by  the  Chaplain,  Rev.  E.  D.  Neill. 

KEPORTS   OF   COMMITTEES. 

Mr.  RUSSELL,  from  the  committee  to 
whom  was  referred  that  part  of  the  Consti- 
tution which  relates  to  County  and  Township 
organization,  made  the  following  report,  which 
was  read  a  first  and  second  time  and  laid  on 
the  table  to  be  printed,  viz : 


CO  UXTY  organizations — ARTICLE. 
Section  1.  Each  organized  county  shall  be  a 
body  corporate,  with  such  powers  and  immunities 
as  shall  be  established  by  law.  All  suits  or  pro- 
ceedings by  or  against  a  county  shall  be  in  the 
name  thereof. 

Sec.  2.  No  new  county  shall  be  formed  or  es- 
tablished by  the  Legislature  of  less  area  than  four 
hundred  square  miles,  nor  shall  any  organized 
county  be  divided,  or  have  any  part  stricken  there- 
from, without  submitting  the  question  to  a  vote  of 
the  electors  of  the  county  or  counties  to  be  directly 
affected  or  dismembered,  and  unless  a  majority  of 
all  the  votes  cast  shall  be  in  favor  of  the  same. 

Sec.  3.  No  county  seat  shall  be  removed  until 
the  point  to  which  it  is  proposed  to  be  removed 
shall  be  designated  by  two-thirds  of  the  Board  of 
Supervisors  of  the  county,  and  a  majority  of  the 
electors  of  the  county  voting  thereon  shall  have 
voted  in  favor  of  the  removal  of  the  county  seat 
to  the  proposed  location  in  such  manner  as  shall  be 
prescribed  bj'  law. 

Sec.  4.  The  Legislature  may  organize  any  city 
into  a  separate  county  when  it  has  attained  a  pop^ 
ulation  of  twenty  thousand  inhabitants,  without 
reference  to  geographical  extent,  when  a  majority 
of  the  electors  of  a  county  in  which  such  city  may 
be  situated,  voting  thereon  shall  be  in  favor  of  a 
separate  organization.  Cities  shall  have  such  rep- 
resentation in  the  Board  of  Supervisors  of  the 
counties  in  which  they  are  situated  as  the  Legisla- 
ture n;ay  direct. 

Sec.  5.  A  board  of  supervisors,  consisting  of 
one  from  each  organized  township,  shall  be  es- 
tablished in  each  county  with  such  powers  as  shall 
be  prescribed  by  law. 

Sec.  6.  The  board  of  supervisors  of  any  county 
shall  have  the  exclusive  power  to  prescribe  and 
fix  the  compensation  for  all  services  rendered  for, 
and  to  adjust  all  claims  against  their  respective 
counties. 

Sec.  7.  The  board  of  supervisors  of  each  or- 
ganized county  may  provide  for  laying  out  and  con- 
structing highways  and  organizing  townships,  un- 
der such  restrictions  and  limitations  as  shall  be 
prescribed  by  law. 

Sec.  8.  The  board  of  supervisors  of  any  county 
may  borrow  or  raise  by  tax  one  thousand  dollars 
for  constructing  or  repairing  public  buildings  and 
highways ;  but  no  greater  sum  shall  be  borrowed 
or  raised  by  tax  for  such  purpose  in  any  one  year, 
unless  authorized  by  a  majority  of  the  electoi's  of 
such  county  voting  thereon,  and  they  shall  have 
such  powers  of  local  taxation  for  public  purposes 
as  may  be  prescribed  by  law. 

Sec.  9.  In  each  organized  county  there  shall  bo 
a  Sheriff,  a  County  Clerk,  a  County  Treasurer,  a 
Register  of  Deeds,  a  Prosecuting  Attorney,  a  Su- 
perintendent of  Common  Schools,  a  County  Sur- 
veyor, and  a  Coroner,  chosen  by  the  electors  there- 
of once  in  two  years,  and  as  oftsn  as  vacancies 
shall  happen,  whose  powers  and  duties  shall  bo 


MIXXESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Wedxesdat,  July  29. 


167 


prescribed  by  law.  The  board  of  Supervisors  in 
any  county  may  unite  the  oflBces  of  county  clerk 
and  register  of  deeds  in  one  ofl&ce  or  disconnect 
the  same. 

Sec.  10.  The  sberiflF  shall  hold  no  other  office, 
and  shall  be  incapable  of  holding  the  office  of  sher- 
iff longer  than  four  in  any  period  of  six  years. 
He  may  be  required  by  law  to  renew  his  security 
from  time  to  time,  and  in  default  of  giving  such 
security  his  office  shall  be  deemed  vacant. 

Sec.  11.  All  county  officers  may  be  removed  in 
such  manner  and  for  such  cause  as  shall  be  pre- 
scribed by  law. 

TOWSSHIP   OBGAXIZATIOXS. AKTICLE. 

Sectiox  1.  Each  organized  township  shall  be 
a  body  corporate  with  such  powers  and  immunities 
as  shall  be  prescribed  by  law.  All  suits  and  pro- 
ceedings by  or  against  a  township  shall  be  in  the 
name  thereof. 

Sec.  2.  There  shall  be  elected  annually  in  each 
organized  township,  one  Supervisor,  one  Township 
Clerk,  three  Commissioners  of  Highways,  one 
Township  Assessor,  one  Township  Treasurer,  three 
School  Commissioners,  one  Overseer  for  each 
Highway  District,  not  exceeding  four  Constables, 
whose  powers  and  duties  shall  be  prescribed  by 
law. 

Sec.  8.  Justices  of  the  peace  and  Township 
officers  may  be  removed  in  such  manner  and  for 
such  cause  as  shall  be  prescribed  by  law. 

Mr.  BALDWIN,  from  the  committee  to 
whom  was  referred  the  report  of  the  Consti- 
tution relating  to  Educational  Institutions  and 
Interests,  made  the  following  report : 

Sectiox  1.     The   superintendent  of  public  in- 
struction shall  have  the  general  supervision  of 
public  instruction  and  his  duties  shall  be  prescribed 
.-  law. 

Sec.  2.  The  proceeds  of  all  lands  that  have 
been  or  that  may  hereafter  be  granted  by  the 
United  States  for  the  support  of  schools,  which 
may  be  sold  or  disposed  of,  and  all  estates  of  de- 
ceased persons  who  may  have  died  without  leav- 
ing a  will  or  heir,  shall  be  and  remain  a  perpetual 
fund,  the  interest  of  which,  together  with  all  the 
rfents  of  the  unsold  lands,  and  such  other  means 
as  the  Legislature  shall  provide  shall  be  exclu- 
sively applied  to  the  following  objects,  viz  : 

First. — The  support  and  maintenance  of  com- 
mon schools  in  each  school  district  and  the  pur- 
chase of  suitable  libraries  and  apparatus  therefor. 
Second. — The  residue  shall  be  appropriated  to 
the  support  and  maintenance  of  academies  and 
normal  schools  and  suitable  libraries  therefor. 

Sec.  3.  The  Legislature  shall,  within  five  years 
firom  the  adoption  of  this  Constitution,  provide  for 
and  establish  a  system  of  common  schools,  w^hich 
shall  be  as  nearly  uniform  as  practicable,  whereby 
B  school  shall  be  kept  without  charg*  for  tuition, 
at  least  three  months  in  each  year,  in  every  School 
District  in  the  State,  and  all  instructions  in  said 


schools  shall  be  in  the  English  language,  and  no 
sectarian  instruction  shall  be  allowed  therein. 

Sec  4.  Provision  shall  be  made  by  law  for  the 
distribution  of  the  income  of  the  school  fimd 
among  the  several  towns  and  cities  of  the  State  for 
the  support  of  common  schools  therein,  in  some 
just  proportion  to  the  number  of  children  and 
youth  resident  therein,  between  the  ages  of  four 
and  twenty  years,  and  no  appropriation  shall  be 
made  from  the  school  fund  to  any  school  district 
for  the  year  in  which  a  school  shall  not  be  main- 
tained at  least  three  months. 

Sec.  5.  The  Legislature  shall  provide  for  the 
establishment  of  a  library  in  each  school  district^ 
and  all  fines  assessed  and  collected  in  the  several 
counties  and  townships,  for  any  breach  of  the  penal 
laws  shall  be  exclusively  applied  to  the  support  of 
such  libraries. 

Sec  6.  There  shall  be  elected  in  each  judicial 
circuit  at  the  time  of  the  election  of  the  judge  of 
such  circuit,  a  regent  of  the  university,  whose 
term  of  office  shall  be  the  same  as  that  of  such  judge 
The  regents  thus  elected  shall  constitute  the  board 
of  regents  of  the  university  of  Minnesota. 

Sec  7.  The  regents  of  the  university  and  their 
successors  in  office  shall  continue  to  constitute  the 
body  corporate,  known  by  the  name  and  title  of 
"  The  Regents  of  the  University  of  Minnesota." 
They  shall  have  the  general  supervision  of  the 
university,  and  the  direction  and  control  of  all 
expenditures  from  the  university  interest  fund. 

Sec  8.  The  Secretary  of  State,  State  Treasui:er, 
and  Attorney  General,  shall  constitute  a  board  of 
commissioners  for  the  sale  of  the  school  and  uni- 
versity lands,  and  for  the  investment  of  the  funds 
arising  therefrom.  Any  two  of  said  commissioners 
shall  be  a  quorum  for  the  transaction  of  all  busi- 
ness pertaining  to  the  duties  of  their  office. 

Sec.  9.  Provision  shall  be  made  by  law  for  the 
sale  of  all  school  and  university  lands,  after  they 
shall  have  been  appraised,  and  that  notice  that  such 
sale  will  take  place  shall  in  all  cases  be  given  at 
least  three  months  prior  thereto,  by  publication  in 
the  newspapers,  and  by  posters  placed  in  conspicu- 
ous places  in  the  county  in  which  such  lands  are  sit- 
uated. Xo  sale  shall  take  effect  unless  at  least  one- 
fourth  of  the  purchase  money  be  paid  at  the  time  of 
the  sale,  and  when  such  lands  shall  be  sold,  and  a 
portion  of  the  purchase  money  shall  not  be  paid  at 
the  time  of  the  sale,  the  Commissioners  shall  take 
security  by  mortgage  upon  the  land  sold,  for  the 
sum  remaining  unpaid,  with  twelve  per  cent 
interest  thereon,  payable  annually  at  the  office  of 
the  Treasurer,  except  on  timbered  lands,  which 
may  be  depreciated  in  value,  for  which  the  com- 
missioners shall  require  such  additional  security 
as  shall  by  them  be  deemed  amply  sufficient  fof 
ensure  the  purchase  of  the  payment  money  upon 
such  lands  remaining  unpaid.  The  commissioners 
shall  be  authorized  to  execute  a  good  and  sufficient 
conveyance  to  all  purchasers  of  such  lands,  and  to 
discharge  any  mortgage  taken  as  security  wh«6 


168 


MINNESOTA  C0NVI:NTI0N  DEBATES— Wednesday,  July  29. 


the  sum  due  thereon  shall  be  paid.  The  commis- 
sioners shall  have  power  to  withhold  from  sale  any 
portion  of  such  land  when  they  shall  deem  it 
expedient)  and  shall  invest  moneys  arising  from 
the  sale  of  such  lands,  as  well  as  university  and 
school  funds,  in  such  manner  as  the  Legislature 
shall  provide,  and  shall  give  such  security  for  the 
faithful  performance  of  their  duties  as  may  be 
required  by  law. 

Sec.  10.  The  board  of  supervisors  in  each 
bounty  shall  constitute  a  board  of  appraisers, 
whose  duty  it  shall  be,  within  three  months  previ- 
ous to  the  time  any  school  or  university  lands  in 
their  respective  counties  are  offered  for  sale,  to  fix 
the  valuation  thereof,  and  in  no  case  shall  any 
portion  of  such  lands  be  sold  for  less  than  the 
appraised  value. 

Sec.  11.  Institutions  for  the  benefit  of  those 
inhabitants  who  are  deaf,  dumb,  blind  or  insane, 
shall  always  be  fostered  and  sustained. 

Sec.  12.  The  Legislature  shall  encourage  the 
promotion  ofintellectual,scientific,  and  agricultural 
improvements,  and  shall,  as  soon  as  practicable, 
provide  for  the  establishment  of  an  agricultural 
school.  The  Legislature  may  appropriate  all  salt 
springs,  with  the  six  sections  of  land  adjoining  or 
contiguous  thereto,  to  which  the  State,  on  admis- 
sion into  the  Union  shall  be  entitled  according  to 
the  provisions  of  the  Act  of  Congress,  entitled 
"  An  Act  to  authorize  the  people  of  Minnesota  to 
"  form  a  Constitution  and  State  Government  pre- 
"paratory  to  their  admission  into  the  Union  on  an 
"equal  footing  with  the  original  States,"  and  any 
land  which  may  hereafter  be  granted  or  appropria- 
ted for  suth  purpose,  for  the  support  and  main- 
tenance of  such  school,  and  may  make  the  same  a 
branch  of  the  luiiversity  for  instruction  in  agri- 
culture and  the  patural  sciences  connected  there- 
with, and  place  the  same  under  the  supervision  of 
the  regents  of  the  university. 

The  report  was  read  a  first  and  second 
time,  and  laid  on  the  table  to  be  printed  ^ 

Under  the  order  of  business,  the  following 
resolution  was  taken  from  the  table  and  con- 
sidered, viz : 

"Bfgohed,  That  the  object  of  a  Constitution  is 
to  organize  a  government  prescribing  the  nature 
and  extent  of  the  powers  of  the  several  depart- 
ments thereof,  and  that  to  engraft  any  legislative 
enactments  therein  would  be  anti-Republican. 
Further  that  a  Hill  of  Rights  should  only  be  decla- 
ratory of  fundamental  piinciples." 

Mr.  FOSTER.  That  resolution  contains 
but  a  simple  declaration  of  sentiment.  It 
may  be  all  very  well.  I  presilme  nobody 
disputes  its  main  proposition,  but  really,  it 
seems  hardly  worth  while  to  put  such  a  de- 
claration upon  our  journals.  Every  body 
concedes  that  we  ought  not  to  have  a  code  of 


laws  in  our  Constitution,  and  the  only  point 
of  difference  between  any  of  us,  would  be  as 
to  what  constitutes  legislation,  and  what  wcro 
abstract  fundamental  principles.  One  mem- 
ber thinks  we  should  lay  down  certain  points 
in  the  Constitution  which  are  necessary  to 
guide  legislation,  and  he  would  make  them 
full  and  explicit.  Another  member  thinks 
differently.  Now  pass  that  resolution  and 
the  same  thing  will  be  still  constantly  occur- 
ring. It  can  do  no  good.  I  am  opposed  to 
affirming  a  mere  truism. 

Mr.  NORTH.  Should  we  make  a  com- 
plete code  of  laws  in  our  Constitution,  I 
would  inquire  if  that  VA'Ould  necessarily  make 
it  anti-Republican  in  its  fonn  ?  I  do  not  ex- 
actly see  the  truth  asserted  in  that  resolution, 
and  therefore  shall  vote  against  it. 

Mr.  RUSSELL  moved  that  the  resolution 
be  laid  upon  the  table. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to. 

PKEAMBLE   AND   BILL   OP   EIGHTS. 

The  Convention  next  proceeded  imder  the 
order  of  business,  to  the  consideration  of  the 
report  of  the  committee  upon  the  Preamble 
and  Bill  of  Rights. 

The  first  question  was  upon  the  amendment 
offered  yesterday,  as  follows : 

"  Sec.  — ^  Married  women  shall  have  the  right 
to  hold  and  convey  real  and  personal  property  in 
their  own  right  separately  from  their  husbands, 
and  to  contract  on  their  own  behalf." 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  offer  the  followmg  sub- 
stitute for  that  section : 

"  The  common  law  disability  of  married  womer 
to  hold,  enjoy,  and  convey  real  property,  and  to 
contract  on  their  own  behalf  shall  not  exist  in  this 
State." 

I  wish  to  make  a  few  remarks  upon  this 
subject,  in  addition  to  what  I  said  yesterday. 

It  was  intimated  in  Convention  at  that 
time,  that  the  amendment  offered  by  the  gen- 
tleman from  Rice  county,  [Mr.  North]  was 
offered  as  a  joko^  and  that  there  was  nothing 
serious  about  it.  That  intimation  has  since 
been  repeated  in  connection  with  members  of 
the  Convention.  Now  I  have  to  say  so  far  as 
I  am  concerned,  I  attempted  no  joke  in  this 
matter.  I  prefer  the  substitute  I  have  offered, 
and  I  believe  it  is  acceptable  to  the  gentleman 
from  Rice  county.  It  conveys  the  same 
meaning  he  intended  to  have  conveyed  in  the 
original.     The  common  law  prohibits  married 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Wedkesdat,  July  29. 


169 


women  from  holding,  in  their  own  names, 
real  and  personal  property :  disposing  of  it, 
and  entering  into  contracts  upon  their  ovra 
behalf.  It  does  not  prohibit  single  women, 
either  maidens  or  widows,  from  the  exercise 
of  those  rights.  For  one,  I  do  not  beUeve  it 
is  right,  just,  or  equitable,  that  when  a  wo- 
man contracts  marriage,  she  shall  lose  the 
rights  she  possessed  before.  It  throws  a 
barrier  in  the  way  of  marriage.  It  also  offers 
an  inducement  to  those  who  are  in  the  bonds 
of  mati'imony  to  get  out  in  some  way. 

Objections  were  made  to  the  amendment 
proposed  yesterday,  on  the  ground  that  it 
gave  an  advantage  to  married  women  over 
married  men.  Although  I  do  not  so  under- 
stand the  amendment,  yet  the  substitute  is 
offered  to  obviate  that  difficulty.  It  was  sta- 
ted in  the  com-se  of  the  argument  yesterday, 
that  a  married  man  had,  under  the  principles 
of  the  common  law,  a  right  by  courtesy  to  the 
estate  of  his  wife  after  her  death,  in  certain 
circimastances ;  also,  that  a  married  woman 
possessed  a  similar  right  to  dower  in  the 
estate  of  her  husband,  and  that  the  amend- 
ment offered  by  the  gentleman  from  Rice 
county  proposed  to  take  away  that  right  from 
the  husband,  and  still  retain  it  for  the  wife. 
Now  under  the  workings  of  the  substitute  I 
have  offered,  there  can  be  no  such  objection 
as  that.  If  I  understand  the  principles  of 
law  correctly,  it  would  leave  the  husband  and 
wife  upon  an  equal  footing  in  regard  to  the 
whole  thing  of  having  property  and  making 
contracts.  K  the  husband  shoiild  convey 
his  property  without  the  signature  of  the 
wife,  her  right  of  dower  would  remain  unim- 
paired, and  if  the  wife  should  convey  her 
property  without  the  signature  of  her  hus-  ^ 
band,  his  right  to  courtesy  would  remain  imim- 
paired. 

"We  have  already  adopted  in  our  Bill  of 
Rights,  a  provision  in  contravention  of  the 
principles  of  the  common  law  upon  this  sub- 
ject. We  have  provided  that  no  distinction 
diall  be  made  in  this  State  between  resident 
Idiens  and  citizens,  in  regard  to  the  holding 
or  conveying  of  property.  And  it  is  equally 
proper  that  we  should  contravene  the  provis- 
ions of  the  common  law  in  this  case,  if  we 
deem  such  a  provision  just  and  equitable. 

Mr.   FOSTER.     One  question  as  to  the 
bearing  of  that  amendment.     Am  I  to  under- 
22 


stand  that  in  case  an'amendment  of  tliis  kind 
is  adopted,  the  wife  would  have"  the^right  to 
convey  her  real  estate  without  the  consent, 
or  participation,  in  anyj  manner  of  her  hus- 
band ? 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  understand  fthelwife 
to  have  the  same  right  to  convey  her  property 
without  the  consent  of  her  husband,  that  the 
husband  has  to  convey  without  the  consent 
of  the  wife. 

Mr.  FOSTER.  I  understand  that  now,  by 
the  common  law,  a  husband  has  an  interest 
in  the  ^wife's  real  estate  after  her  death.  Is 
that  so? 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  That  is  my  understand- 
ing of  it. 

Mr.  FOSTER.  And  that  would  still  be 
reserved  if  this  substitute  should  be  adopted  ? 

Mr.  SECOMBE.     Certamly. 

Mr.  FOSTER.  Another  question.  "Would 
this  substitute  authorize  the  wife  to  convey 
absolutely  by  devise,  without  any  reservation 
of  the  husband's  rights  ? 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  would  sunply  say,  in 
answer  to  the  question,  that  it  is  my  imder- 
standing,  that  she  would  have  the  same  rela- 
tive right  to  convey  her  property,  in  the  same 
manner  that  the  husband  would  have.  But 
I  am  not  prepared  to  give  a  dissertation  upon 
the  principles  of  the  common  law  to  the  full- 
est extent. 

Mr.  FOSTER.  This  is  a  very  important 
matter,  and  we  should  be  careful  to  make  no 
mistake;  The  principle  affects  the  whole 
social  fabric,  and  if  we  should  adopt  anything 
which  is  not  well  matured,  it  might  tend  to 
loosen  the  bonds  which  bind  society  together. 
Now  I  am  disposed  to  sustain  the  rights  of 
woman  as  woman,  and  not  to  ignore  her 
existence  and  rights  to  the  extent  which  the 
old  feudal  system  did,  but  at  the  same  time 
I  see  a  disposition  abroad  in  commimity  to 
so  far  separate  the  interests  of  man  and  wife 
as  to  loosen  the  bonds  of  the  marriage  con- 
tract, and  to  offer,  as  it  were,  an  inducement 
to  sever  its  ties.  Of  course  if  you  give  the 
man  and  wife  separate  and  independent  inter- 
ests, that  community  of  thought  and  ^action 
which  are  so  desirable  in  that  relation,  is  to 
some  extent  impaired. 

As  I  said  before,  I  am  not  a  non-progress- 
ive in  this  matter,  but  am  in  favor  of  going 
ahead,— of  relieving  woman  from   some  of 


m 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Wednesday,  July  29. 


the  old  feudal  restraints,  and  recognizing  her 
in  law  as  being  a  person  having  rights  of  her 
own,  and  not  as  being  entirely  absorbed  in 
the  man  who  is  joined  by  law  to  her  as  hus- 
band. 

I  have  had  handed  to  me  an  amendment 
which  I  will  read  and  offer  as  a  substitute  for 
the  substitute : 

"All  property  both  real  and  personal  of  the 
wife,  owned  or  claimed  by  marriage  and  that  ac- 
quired afterwards  by  gift,  devise  or  descent,  shall 
be  her  separate  property;  and  laws  shall  be  passed 
more  clearly  defining  the  rights  of  the  wife,  in 
delation  as  well  to  her  separate  property  as  that 
held  in  common  with  her  husband.  Laws  shall 
also  be  passed  providing  for  the  registration  of 
the  wife's  separate  property." 

This  substitute  is  a  transcript  of  the  pro- 
Vision  in  the  Constitution  of  California.  I 
'  wish  to  take  the  sense  of  the  Convention 
lipon  it. 

The  question  was  taken  on  the  substitute 
to  the  substitute,  and  it  was  agreed  to. 

The  question  then  recurred  on  the  substi- 
tute as  amended. 

Mr.  WILSON.  I  am  opposed  to  this 
whole  matter — the  original  and  the  substitute. 

The  original  goes  to  the  fullest  extent  I 
think  it  possible  to  go,  and  both  are  legisla- 
tion, rather  than  that  which  should  be  incor- 
porated into  a  Constitution.  Both  proceed 
upon  the  ground  that  there  is  danger  of  the 
Legislature  not  only  disregarding  the  rights 
of  married  women,  but  of  repealing  laws  now 
in  force  in  reference  to  them.  Are  not  mar- 
ried women  sufficiently  protected  now  ?  Can- 
not they  hold  their  separate  property  now  in 
the  way  spoken  of  in  this  amendment? 
•Certainly  it  is  so.  Now  do  we  wish  here,  by 
innuendo  or  otherwise,  to  say  that  the  Minne- 
sota Legislature  is  likely  to  disregard  the 
rights  of  maiTied  women  ?  Is  it  necessary  to 
insert  into  the  Constitution  special  legislation 
upon  this  head  more  than  upon  any  other  ? 
I  think  not.  We  are  inclined  to  go  too  far 
upon  this  subject.  We  ought  not  to  legislate 
in  our  Constitution  upon  any  subject,  and 
certainly  not  upon  this.  This  is  a  subject 
upon  which  the  Legislature  itself  is  inclined 
to  go  full  far  enough.  I  will  go  as  far  as  he 
who  goes  farthest  in  guaranteeing  to  woman 
■all  the  rights  she  should  havc^  But  I  do 
protest  against  putting  a  woman  upon  an 
xtquaUty  with  man  in  a  business  point  of  view. 


These  out-door  transactions  are  not  her  busi- 
ness. If  she  has  any  property  before  mar- 
riage, or  if  she  acquires  any  after  marriage,  I 
am  willing  that  she  should  hold  it  in  such  a 
mamier  that  her  husband  cannot  deprive  her 
of  it  without  her  own  volunttiry  consent ;  but 
I  do  not  wish  to  say  here,  by  implication  or 
otherwise,  that  a  woman  is  fitted,  or  ought  to 
be  fitted,  for  doing  business  generally.  As 
soon  as  you  place  woman  in  that  sphere  you 
deprive  her  of  all  true  womanhood.  Her 
next  step  would  be  to  the  ballot  box.  If  we 
go  to  this  extent  we  may  be  justly  called 
"women's 'rights  men."  I  protest  against 
saying  directly  or  indirectly,  that  a  Minnesota 
Legislature  needs  to  be  bound  to  do  justice 
to  women  as  such.  They  need  no  such  obli- 
gations. Our  laws  are  ample,  and  yet  this 
says  that  other  laws  shall  be  passed.  Why 
this  sen&itiveness  ?  There  are  some  points 
upon  which  men  become  sensitive,  and  which 
they  consider  the  "  all  in  all "  of  legislation. 
The  Legislatures  which  have  recently  enacted 
laws  upon  this  subject,  have  come  up  to  all 
that  women  want.  I  teU  you  it  is  not  the 
women  that  call  for  such  provisions  as  this, 
but  the  men,  and  not  a  majority  of  them 
either.  I  hope  the  Convention  wiU  place  a 
quietus  upon  this  matter,  and  allow  it  to  be 
carried  no  further. 

Mr.  NORTH.  It  is  a  little  amusing  to  sec 
how  people  are  terrified  for  fear  there  may  be 
a  little  item  of  fanaticism  worked  into  the 
Constitution  we  are  framing.  It  is  amusing 
to  see  them  frightened  when  they  are  so  far 
from  danger,  and  to  see  them  work  themselves 
up  to  a  fever  heat  for  fear  the  world  is  going 
to  make  some  great  revolution,  and  turn 
things  topsy-turvy,  which  have  stood  upright 
for  so  many  years,  and  that  our  opponents 
will  call  us  fanatics.  I  confess  I  have  no 
such  fear.  I  believe  tliat  tliis  age  is  wiser 
than  the  preceding  one.  I  believe  that  the 
people  of  our  day  know  more  than  people  did 
in  the  dark  ages,  and  feudal  times.  I  believe 
they  are  capable  of  making  wiser  laws  and 
institutions  than  were  made  then,  and  when 
they  advance  upon  sound,  correct,  and  philo- 
sophical principles,  I  tliink  it  is  nonsense  to 
be  frightened  for  fear  we  shall  make  some 
hnprovemcnt,  and  |for  fear  tlie  old  fogies  of 
the  present  day  will  call  it  fanaticism. 

A  provision  of  this  kind  is  found  in  the 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Wedsesdat,  July  29. 


171 


Constihition  of  California,  and  it  has  been 
incorporated  into  the  laws  of  several  other 
States.     New  York  long  since  came  up  to 
tliat  standard ;    and  other  States  have  been 
progressing  towards  it  from  year  to  year. 
This  idea  that  we  are  going  to  abolish  all  that 
is  good  and  old,  and  substitute  something  in 
its  place,  is   simply  ridiculous.     I  want  to 
know  if  married  women  ought  not  to  have 
some  rights  ?     If  they  ought  to  be  completely 
under  the  control  of  their  husbands,  in  all 
respects,  and  under  all  circumstances  ?     If  a 
woman  before  marriage  has  in  her  own  right 
a  large  estate,  is  it  just  and  reasonable  or 
philosophical,   that  her  husband,  though  he 
be  an  imbruted,  degraded  being,  should  take 
the  entire  control  of  it ;    or  is  it  right  that  i 
she    should  have  the   control  of  what  was  ! 
her  own,  and    forever  should  be  her  own  ? 
If  he  has  property,  no  matter  how  much 
more  capable  she  might  be  to  manage  it,  gentle- 
men would  not   advocate  her   control  of  it 
because   she  was  much  the  more  capable. 
Not  at  all,  for  it  was  his  right.     Now  if  a 
woman  has  property  in  her  own  right,  why 
should  she  not  be  permitted  to  control,  enjoy 
and  protect  it  for  her  children  ?     Or  shall  we 
insist,  for  fear  of  being  called  fanatical  upon 
this  subject,  that  the  husband  should  be  per^ 
mitted  under  all  circumstances,  to  use  and 
squander  that  property?      It  seems  to  me 
that  some  safeguard  should  be  thrown  around 
the  family  circle ;  that  children  and  women 
have  rights  which  ought  to  be  protected,  and 
that  our  Constitution  should  afford  that  pro- 
tection,  in  the    same  way  that  wise    and 
experienced  heads  have  thrown   protection 
around  that  class  in  other  States.     With  the 
history  of  the  past  upon  this  subject,  and  the 
example  of  other  States  before  us,  for  us  to 
wake  up  and  begin  to  cry  "  fanaticism  "  for 
doing  things  which  were  deemed  prudent  and 
"Rise  twenty  years  ago  by  the  very  best  men 
of  this  country,  is  a  little  amusing  indeed. 

Mr.  WILSON.  I  am  sorry  that  he,  who 
above  all  others  seeks  the  insertion  of  this 
clause,  should  not  represent  it  to  the  full  ex- 
tent to  which  it  goes.  But  he  does  not.  Who 
here  says  a  word  against  permitting  a  woman 
to  hold  property  in  her  own  name  ?  Do  I  ? 
Does  any  one  ?  And  is  that  the  full  extent 
to  which  the  section  goes  ?  Not  at  all.  It 
goes  far  beyond  that  in  its  eflfects.    I  did  not 


say  that  I  was  opposed  to  this  because  it  was 
new.     Nor  do  I  wish  to  adopt  the  old  com- 
mon law  rule  that  a  married  woman  shall  not 
hold  property  in  her  own  name  and  right. 
That  is  not  my  position.     I  am  willing  that 
she  should  hold  all  her  own  property  in  her 
own  name  and  right,  and  that  she  shall  not 
be  deprived  of  it,  unless  by  her  voluntary 
act.     Such  a  provision  now  stands  upon  our 
statute  book,  and  there  is  no  probability  of 
its  being  repealed.     Now  when  should  we 
guard  our  Legislature  and  put  checks  upon 
it  ?    In  my  opinion,  when  that  Legislature  is 
likely  to  be  turned  aside  from  the  path  of  duty, 
by  some  influence  which  can  be  brought  to 
bear  upon  them.     For  instance,  suppose  we 
have   corporations  in  our  Territory  of  im- 
mense wealth.     They  may  make  an  attack 
upon  the  integrity  of  the  Legislature  and  in- 
duce them  to  make  laws  more  favorable  to 
such  corporations  than  they  should  be.    Then 
guard  well  your  Legislature.     But  when  we 
come  to  a  matter  of  cool  legislation  where  no 
money  influence  is  brought  to  bear,  where  no 
local  influence  have  any  weight,  why  will  not 
our  Le^slature  be  likely  to  pass  laws  as  fa- 
vorable to  the  rights  of  women,  and  the  rights 
of  humanity,  as  they  ought  to  have  ?     Why 
not  ?     Is  there  to  be  any  pecuniary  influence 
brought  to  bear  upon  them  to  prevent  them 
jfrom  doing  right  in  the  premises  ?     I  think 
not.     Therefore  we  have  no  right  to  surround 
them  with  any  provision  of  this  sort  which 
will  prevent  them  from  legislating  as  they 
think  proper.     A   Constitutional  enactment 
is  something  which  will  be  permanent,  while 
a  l^slative  enactment  may  be  changed  when 
it  is  seen  that  it  can  be  made  better.     Now  if 
there  is  no  danger  of  any  wrong  influences 
being  brought  to  bear  upon  the  Legislature, 
why  tie  their  hands  by  such  a  provision  as 
this  ?     They  come  here  yearly,  instructed  by 
by  the  people,  and  it  is  not  probable  that  they 
will  know  the  wishes  of  the  people  for  the  fu- 
ture, better  than  we  can  ?     Our  laws,  upon 
this  subject,  are  now  right,  and  they  go  as  far 
as  women  generally  wish  them  to  go,  so  far 
as  I  know.     There  may  be  a  few  exceptions, 
and  I  say  now  that  those  women  who  are  the 
exceptions  are  not  those  whom  their  sex  will 
take  for  their  type.     They  are  women  who 
are  pointed  out  and  shunned. 
I  care  not  for  the  &ct  that  there  is  such  ai 


172 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Wednesday,  Jult  29. 


provision  in  the  Constitution  of  the  State  of 
CaUfomia.  Let  me  tell  you  that  California 
was  a  State  that  needed  such  a  provision, 
while  Minnesota  does  not  need  it.  California 
is  an  exception  to  almost  all  rules.  They  had 
no  such  laws  upon  their  statute  book  as  we 
have.  Men  and  women  went  there  together 
and  men,  upright  and  honest  at  home,  became 
there  dissipated,  reckless,  gamblers  and  all 
such  things.  Theirs  was  a  sort  of  transition 
state.  They  perhaps  needed  such  a  provision. 
We,  on  the  contrary,  are  a  sober,  temperate, 
and  honest  people  usually.  Our  legislation 
upon  this  subject  has  always  been  liberal. 
Why  then  throw  a  check  aroimd  them  and 
compel  them  to  pass  laws  upon  a  subject  upon 
which  there  are  ample  laws  already  ?  If  the 
gentleman  insists  upon  his  amendment  let 
him  first  show  that  our  laws  are  not  amply 
liberal  upon  the  subject,  or  that  there  is  dan- 
ger that  the  Legislature  will  repeal  those  laws ; 
and  further  that  his  amendment  only  asks 
that  married  women  may  hold  property  in 
their  own  right. 

Mr.  PERKINS.     According  to  the  princi- 
ples of  the  common  law  there  are  certain  dis- 
abilities imposed  upon  married  women  in  re- 
lation to  the  holding  and  disposing  of  property, 
and  the  making  of  contracts.     Those  disabili- 
ties have  been  sanctioned  for  centuries  and 
have  been  approved  by  a  vast  amount  of 
learning.     And   now  gentlemen  propose  to 
brush  away  all  the  experience  and  learning 
of  centuries  past.     They  go  further,  and  say 
that  this  new  rule  is  not  to  be  introduced  as 
an  experiment,  to  see  whether  it  will  work 
well,  notwithstanding  it  is  in  opposition  to  the 
lore  of  centuries.     The  old  rule  is  to  be  swept 
away  perpetually.     We  are  to  revolutionize 
the  whole  law  on  that  subject  at  once.     We 
are  to  incorporate  this  new  principle  into  our 
Constitution  and  recognize  it  as  one  of  the  fun- 
damental principles  which  underlie  the  Consti- 
tution.  Because  we  hesitate  to  go  to  that  length 
at  once,  before  the  experiment  has  been  fully 
tested,  before  it  has  been  ascertained  whether 
that  is  the  best  principle  or  not,  gentlemen 
are  inclined  to  denounce  us  as  old  fogies.     It 
does  not  seem  to  me  that  the  charge  is  just, 
or  that  a  revolution  so  radical  ought  to  take 
place  at  once,  or  that  we  ought  to  take  the 
responsibility  of  putting  such  a  clause  in  our 
Constitution  until  the  principle  has  been  more 


thoroughly  tested  than  it  has  been.  To  say 
the  least,  we  should  leave  it  for  the  present 
with  the  Legislature.  If  the  people  demand 
that  further-protection  shall  be  thrown  around 
married  women,  the  Legislature  vrill  comply 
with  that  requisition.  With  them  then  I 
would  leave  the  matter  entirely.  It  was  one 
of  the  principles  of  the  conmion  law  that 
there  should  be  a  perfect  union  between  man 
and  wife,  and  in  order  to  establish  that  union, 
these  disabilities  were  imposed  upon  the  wife. 
Now  it  seems  to  me,  as  suggested  by  a  gen- 
tleman upon  the  other  side,  that  to  incorpo- 
rate this  provision  into  our  Constitution  and 
declare  it  to  be  a  fundamental  principle,  would 
be  to  loosen  the  bonds  of  the  married  re- 
lation. I  hope  the  Convention  will  not  see 
fit  to  go  the  length  which  some  gentlemen 
desire. 

Mr.  NORTH.  I  do  not  want  to  spend 
much  time  in  discussing  this  question,  but  it 
is  an  important  one,  and  it  becomes  us  to 
look  at  it  calmly  and  rationally.  If  the  gen- 
tleman's argument  is  sound,  that  it  is  well 
enough  to  leave  this  matter  with  the  Legisla- 
ture, and  confide  in  their  judgment  for  right 
legislation,  I  ask  why  it  is  not  equally  sound 
and  rational  to  leave  qther  points,  upon  which 
we  are  now  framing  a  Constitution,  to  the  ac- 
tion of  the  Legislature  also  ?  Are  our  rights 
as  men,  so  much  more  imperiled  than  those 
of  women ;  are  we  so  much  more  weak  and 
defenseless,  that  we  need  Constitutional  pro- 
tection for  ourselves,  while  they  need  none  ? 
If  that  is  not  the  reason,  what  is  the  reason 
that  married  women  shall  not  have  constitu- 
tional protection  to  their  rights,  as  well  as 
men  in  theirs  ?  For  myself  I  confess  I  am 
so  obtuse  that  I  cannot  see  why  men  should 
have  such  protection  and  women  have  nothing 
of  the  sort.  I  have  always  been  accustomed 
to  think  that  law  was  peculiarly  adapted  to 
the  protection  of  the  weak.  The  strong,  it  is 
remarked,  need  no  protection.  They  can  take 
care  of  themselves,  but  the  weak  and  de- 
fenseless need  the  strongest  protection  and 
guarantee  of  law. 

Mr.  KING  (interrupting)  I  rise  to  a  point 
of  order.  Rule  seventh  of  this  Convention 
says  that  no  memb«r  shall  speak  more  than 
twice  on  the  same  question,  nor  more  than 
fifteen  minutes  at  any  one  time  without  leave 
of  the  Convention,  nor  more  tlian  once  until 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION   DEBATES— Wedxesdat,  Jclt  29. 


173 


every  member  who  chooses  to  speak  shall 
have  spoken.  The  gentleman  has  spoken  twice 
before  on  this  subject,  and  he  is  out  of  order, 
imlcss  the  Convention  grant  leave  to  proceed. 

Cries  of  "  leave"  "  leave." 

Mr.  NORTH  proceeded.  I  wish  now  to 
refer  to,  and  read  the  clause  of  the  California 
Constitution,  to  ascertain  whether  there  is 
anything  so  very  ultra  in  the  sentiments  em- 
bodied there.     It  is  as  follows : 

"  AU  property  both  real  and  personal  of  the 
wife,  owned  or  claimed  by  marriage,  and  that  ac- 
quired afterward  bj  gift,  devise,  or  descent,  shall 
be  her  separate  property;  and  laws  shall  be  passed 
more  clearly  defining  the  rights  of  the  wife,  in  re- 
lation as  well  to  her  separate  property,  as  to  that 
held  in  common  with  her  husband.  Laws  shall 
also  be  passed  providing  for  the  registration  of  the 
wife's  separate  property." 

It  happens  that  when  the  laws  now  upon 
our  statute  book  on  this  subject,  were  passed 
by  our  Territorial  Legislature,  there  were  many 
who  were  just  as  much  opposed  to  legislating 
upon  the  rights  of  married  women,  and  as 
fearful  of  the  fanatical  doctrine  of  guarding 
the  rights  of  married  women  at  all,  as  some 
gentlemen  of  this  Convention  are  to-day. 
The  idea  of  woman's  rights  were  sneered  at  in 
the  same  manner,  and  by  the  same  kind  of 
slurs  and  innuendos  that  are  sometimes  ex- 
hibited here.  But  there  was  good  sense 
enough  in  that  Legislature  to  pass  good  and 
wholesome  laws  for  woman's  protection.  It 
was  my  privilege  to  advocate  them,  as  I  ad- 
vocate now,  the  same  kind  of  legislation.  I 
had  the  opportunity  of  urging  that  provision 
then,  and  I  met  with  the  same  kind  of  oppo- 
sition that  now  meets  me  here.  The  amend- 
ment I  offered  is  not  of  itself  legislation,  but 
it  imposes  upon  the  Legislature  the  duty  of 
legislating  upon  the  subject,  and  more  speci- 
fically defining  and  guarding  the  rights  there- 
in emmciated. 

This,  seems  to  me  to  be  one  of  the  most 
wise,  just,  and  wholesome  provisions  we  can 
incorporate  into  our  Constitution,  and  one 
which  should  be  made  as  prominent  in  the 
fundamental  law  as  any  other.  As  a  man  I 
should  be  ashamed  to  ask  a  constitutional  pro- 
tection of  my  rights,  and  then  turn  around 
and  say  that  women  shall  be  turned  away  to 
to  trust  to  haphazard  legislation  for  her  pro- 
tection. 

Mr.  McCLURE.    I  understand  the  ques- 


tion now  to  be  upon  the  adoption  of  the  sub- 
stitute as  amended.  I  hope  the  good  sense 
of  the  Convention  vrill  prevent  it  from  being 
adopted.  It  never  moves  me  a  particle  to 
hear  certain  gentlemen  from  certain  quarters 
talk  about  oldfogyism.  It  is  a  thing  which  I 
have  heard  a  long  time  and  have  got  used  to 
it.  We  ought  to  act  here  as  sensible  men, 
and  undoubtedly  we  all  suppose  we  are  do- 
ing so,  and  yet,  we  may  do  things  which,  when 
published  to  the  world,  may  show  that  we 
are  acting  a  little  foolishly. 

My  Mend  from  Rice  Coimty  (Mr.  North) 
takes  the  position  that  aU  the  opponents  to 
his  amendment  are  opposed  to  married  wo- 
men holding  property  at  aU.  The  gentieman 
must  iindoubtedly  know,  if  he  considers  for 
a  moment,  that  that  is  not  the  position  taken 
by  the  gentieman  fi-om  Winona,  nor  is  it  the 
position  taken  by  myself.  I  am  in  favor  of 
married  women  having  every  right  that  a  wise 
legislation  may  deem  it  proper  to  give  them. 
But  I  am  not  in  favor  of  placing  this  provis- 
ion into  the  Constitution,  nor  would  I  be  in 
favor  of  engrafting  it  into  a  law,  were  I  a 
legislator,  nor  do  I  think  the  gentieman  him- 
self would,  if  he  looks  at  the  language  care- 
fully. How  does  it  read?  "AU  property, 
"  both  real  and  personal,  of  a  wife,  owjied  or 
"  claimed  by  marriage,  <fec."  Now  what  prop- 
erty does  a  wife  claim  or  ovni  by  marriage  ? 
I  suppose  the  gentleman  meant  to  say  before 
marriage.  I  would  like  the  gentleman  to  tell 
me  what  property  the  wife  becomes  possessed 
of  by  marriage,  real  or  personal  ?  It  may  be 
that  I  am  too  old  a  fogy  to  see  it,  but  I  must 
confess  my  inability.  Had  it  said  property 
owned  by  her  before  marriage,  I  should  have 
understood  it.  The  balance  of  the  substi- 
tute is  as  follows : 

"  And  that  afterwards  acquired  by  gift,  devise  or 
descent,  shall  be  her  separate  property ;  and  laws 
shall  be  passed  more  clearly  defining  the  rights  of 
the  wife,  in  relation  as  well  to  her  separate  prop- 
erty, asto that  held  in  common  with  her  husband. 
Laws  shall  also  be  passed  providing  for  the  regis- 
tration of  the  wife's  separate  property." 

Now  the  objection  I  take  to  that  is,  that  I 
do  not  think  that  anything  so  legislative  in 
its  character  should  be  incorporated  into  oiu" 
Constitution.  We  ought  to  make  a  Consti- 
tution as  plain  and  simple  as  possible,  and  to 
leave  to  those  who  may  legislate  under  the 
Constitution,  to  secure  all  those  rights  to 


174 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Wednesday,  July  29. 


married  women  and  others,  which  ought  to 
be  secured  to  them.  I  am  in  favor  of  secu- 
ring to  married  women  sufficient  to  guard 
them  against  all  the  inconsistencies  of  man, 
but  I  am  opposed  to  so  completely  separating 
them  that  they  shall  be  distinct  persons  in 
interest,  when  the  Bible  says  "they  twain 
"  shall  be  one  flesh," — and  I  believe  the  gen- 
tleman across  the  way  is  a  higher  law  man. 
Then  I  am  opposed  to  any  legislation,  either 
in  or  out  of  the  Constitution,  to  so  separate 
man  and  wife  that  one  can  set  up  a  trade  in 
one  end  of  the  Capitol,  and  the  other  in  the 
other,  independently  of  each  other.  The 
effect  which  would  result,  reminds  me  of  the 
story  of  the  man  who  proposed  to  a  husband 
that  he  would  give  him  the  best  horse  in  his 
flock,  if  he  and  his  wife  would  agree  upon 
the  selection.  The  husband  selected  the  one 
he  thought  best,  and  the  wife  selected  a  cer- 
tain gray  mare  which  she  asserted  to  be  the 
better  horse.  They  could  not  agree  and  the 
consequence  was  that  the  man  saved  his 
horse.  Now  the  same  would  be  the  result  if 
husband  and  wife  were  allowed  to  be  entirely 
independent  of  each  other  in  controlling  their 
property.  Instead  of  promoting  domestic 
happiness,  it  would  place  a  barrier  between 
them.  I  wish  gentlemen  to  xmderstand  that 
I  am  not  opposed  to  giving  woman  her  rights, 
but  I  am  opposed  to  placing  any  such  pro- 
vision in  the  Constitution. 

Mr.  FOSTER.  I  would  suggest  that  the 
word  "  before,"  should  be  inserted  before  the 
word  "  marriage."  It  is  a  mere  clerical  mis- 
take. 

Mr.  BOLLES.  Gentlemen  seem  to  think 
that  we  are  to  exclude  every  thing  from  our 
Constitution  which  savors  of  legislation.  I 
would  like  to  ask  gentleman  what  the  result 
of  our  deliberations  will  be,  if  adopted  by  the 
people,  if  it  is  not  legislation?  Most  cer- 
tainly it  is  legislation.  We  are  framing  a 
law  which  is  to  be  emphatically  tlie  .law  of 
the  State.  So  that  whatever  we  do,  I  would 
have  gentlemen  understand,  that  it  is  legisla- 
tion, so  far  as  it  is  incorpomted  into  the  Con- 
stitution. While  we  should  be  careful  not  to 
encumber  our  Constitution  with  useless  legis- 
lation and  superfluities,  the  idea  that  we 
should  not  incorporate  anything  which  is 
lcgi.slation,  is  ridiculous  upon  the  face  of  it. 

A  word  in  regard  to  tlie  idea  that  we  must 


not  take  up  new  propositions.  If  I  under-= 
stand  the  object  of  a  Constitutional  Convene 
tion,  it  is  that  we  should  take  up  new  ideas 
and  with  the  world,  digest  them  and  incorpo- 
rate them  into  the  fundamental  law  if  they 
are  right.  What  is  the  use  of  a  great  and 
powerful  State  of  our  confederacy  convening 
a  Constitutional  Convention,  if  it  is  not  for 
that  purpose  ?  We  are  framing  a  Constitu- 
tion for  the  State  of  Minnesota,  and  I  trust 
we  shall  consider  all  the  great  ideas  of  the 
eighty  years  that  we  have  been  a  separate  and 
distinct  government,  and  adopt  them. 

I  am  in  favor  of  this  proposition.  I  do 
think  that  the  rights  of  married  women,  in 
certain  circumstances,  are  not  sufficiently 
guarded.  They  are  an  important  part  of 
community,  and  while  we  are  legislating  for 
the  benefit  of  the  community,  we  should 
legislate  for  all  parts  of  it.  The  minority  is 
not  to  be  swallowed  up  by  the  majority  in 
any  instance.  Their  rights  are  as  sacred  as 
those  of  the  majority.  They  should  espe- 
cially be  guarded  because  the  majority  will 
look  out  fbr  themselves.  The  class  of  per- 
sons particularly  sought  to  be  protected  by 
the  provision  under  consideration,  are  in  the 
minority,  and  I  hope  the  proposition  will  pre- 
vail. 

The  substitute  as  modified  was  then 
adopted. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  caU  for  the  yeas  and 
nays  upon  the  question  of  adopting  the 
amendment  as  amended,  as  a  part  of  the  Bill 
of  Rights. 

The  yeas  and  nays  were  ordered,  and  the 
roll  being  called,  it  was  decided  in  the  affirm- 
ative. Yeas  thirty-two  and  nays  nineteen  as 
follows : 

Yeas — Messrs.  Aldrich,  Ayer,  Baldwin,  Bates, 
Bartholomew,  Billings,  Bolles,  Butler,  Cleghorn, 
Colburn,  Coombs,  Davis,  Duley,  Dickerson, 
Hayden,  Hudson,  Hanson,  Holley,  Kemp,  Lyle, 
Mantor,  Messer,  Murphy,  North,  Phelps,  Putnam, 
Peckham,  Russell,  Secombe,  Vaughn,  Walker, 
Winell,  and  Sheldon.— 83. 

Is^ays — Messrs.  Anderson,  Coe,  Cederstani, 
Eschlie,  Foster,  Folsoni,  Gerrish,  Hall,  Harding, 
King,  McGune,  McClure,  Morgan,  Mills,  Perkins, 
Stannard,  Smith,  Watson,  and  Wilson. — 19. 

So  the  amendment  was  agreed  to. 

Mr.  BOLLES  offered  the  following  as  ;tn 
additional  section : 

"Sec.  — .  The  Legislature  shall  pnss  no  law 
liccQSing  the  traffic  in  intoxicating  liqi;uu»." 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Wednesdat,  Jult  29. 


175 


Mr.  HARDING  offered  the  following  as  a 
substitute  for  the  additional  section : 

"  The  Legislature  shall  pass  no  law  granting 
license  for  the  sale   of  intoxicating  liquor   as  a 
beverage.     But  they  may  prohibit  such  sale  by 
suitable  enactments.     Provided  that  no  such  law 
shall  be  in  force  until  it  shall  have  been  approved 
by  a  majority  of  all  the  votes  cast  at  the  next  gen- 
eral election  succeeding  the  passage  of  such  law." 
Mr.  BOLLES.     I  am  decidedly  opposed  to 
the  substitute.     The  objection  has  already- 
been  harped  upon  in  this  Conrention  that  we 
are  going  too  much  into  detail  in  saying  what 
the  Legislature  may  or  may  not  do.     My 
amendment  is  simply  that*  the  Legislature 
shall  pass  no  law  authorizing  the  traffic  in 
ardent  spu-its.     I  am  in  favor  of  my  proposi- 
tion, expecting  that  if  it  is  adopted,  the  Le- 
gislature will  pass  no  law  upon  the  subject, 
but  leave  the  subject  as  it  leaves  the  selling  of 
potatoes  and   com,  or  any  other  article  of 
traffic.     I  do  not  mean  that  the  Legislature 
shall  impose  upon  good  society  the  stigma  of 
having  laws  upon  the   statute  book  which 
^ve  encouragement  to  the  traffic  of  the  arti- 
cle spoken  of. 

I  do  not  feel  disposed  to  go  into  a  full  ar- 
gument upon  this  question.  If  gentlemen 
are  so  exceedingly  anxious  to  lay  upon  the 
table  every  proposition  which  emanates  from 
certain  individuals  in  this  Convention,  I  want 
them  to  give  some  good  reason  for  it.  I  am 
not  disposed  to  have  them  disposed  of  so 
rmceremoniously.  If  they  have  good  reasons 
for  not  adopting  them,  I  hope  they  will  have 
the  courtesy  to  state  them. 

Mr.  MANTOR.  I  am  really  glad  that  this 
subject  has  come  before  the  Convention.  I 
am  in  iavor  of  the  original  section,  and  op- 
posed to  the  substitute.  In  the  first  place, 
when  we  look  back  and  consider  the  difficul- 
ties which  some  States  have  labored  under  in 
regulating  the  sale  of  intoxicating  drinks,  we 
can  discover  that  there  is  some  pretty  good 
reason  why  there  should  be  a  clause  in  the 
Constitution  prohibiting  it.  I  should  be  glad 
to  see  this  thing  carried  to  the  fullest  extent. 
If  you  please,  I  may  be  termed  an  ultraist 
upon  this  subject.  I  would  be  glad  to  hear 
every  gentleman  express  his  opinion  upon  it, 
without  shirking  responsibility  by  laying  the 
matter  upon  the  table.  It  is  a  selJf-evident 
feet  throughout  Christendom,  that  the  ques- 
tion of  legislation  upon  the  subject  of  intoxi- 


cating drinks,  has  caused  more  excitement, 
has  been  the  means  of  spending  more  money 
and  time,  than  any  other  subject  within  the 
same  length  of  time.  And  why  aU  this? 
Because  oiu-  legislatures  cannot  adopt  a  right 
kind  of  a  law  for  protecting  our  citizens  from 
the  use  and  abuse  of  the  power  which  they 
give  for  the  sale  of  intoxicating  drinks.  If 
gentlemen  will  look  for  a  moment  at  the  con- 
dition of  the  State  of  New  York ;  and  the 
immense  difficulty  she  has  had  for  the  last 
few  years,  in  her  efforts  to  regulate  this  one 
thing,  as  shown  by  the  records  of  her  courts, 
and  then  glance  at  the  amotint  of  pauperism 
that  exists  there,  and  especially  in  her  com- 
mercial metropolis,  they  can  but  come  to  the 
conclusion  that  it  is  best  for  the  citizens  of 
the  Territory  of  Minnesota,  who  are  about 
entering  upon  a  new  Ufe,  to  throw  aroimd 
themselves  the  protection  contemplated  by 
this  amendment,  and  that  it  is  the  duty  of 
this  Convention  to  nip  the  evil  in  the  bud. 

Sir,  I  cannot  but  feel  a  little  chagrined  at 
the  thought  that  gentlemen  wiU  swerve  from 
their  duty  and  leave  this  thing  to  the  Legisla- 
ture, who  may  throw  it  into  the  hands  of  the 
people  to  vote  upon.  I  am  opposed  to  such  a 
course.  I  have  seen  that  thing  once  tried,  and 
have  seen  its  bad  effects.  I  am  opposed  to 
ever  submitting  to  the  people  the  question  of 
"license  or  no  license."  I  hope  there  will  be 
no  shrinking  on  this  question,  and  that  every 
man  will  be  willing  to  put  himself  upon  the 
record  by  yeas  and  nays. 

Mr.  OOLBURN.  I  hope  we  shall  spend 
no  time  in  discussing  this  question.  I  pre- 
sume the  minds  of  members  are  made  up, 
and  I  am  perfectly  vrilling  the  yeas  and  na^s 
should  be  called.  s 

The  question  was  taken  on  the  substitute 
and  it  was  not  agreed  to. 

Mr.  BOLLES  called  for  the  yeas  and  nays 
upon  the  section. 

The  yeas  and  nays  were  ordered,  and  the 
roU  being  called,  there  were  yeas  twelve  and 
nays  thirty-seven,  as  follows : 

r^os— Messrs.  Aldrich,  Anderson,  Baldwin, 
Bolles,  Cederstam,  Harding,  King,  Lyle,  Mantor, 
McCann,  Messer,  and  Stannard— 12. 

;^ays — Messrs.  Bates,  Bartholomew,  Billings, 
Butler,  Cleghorn,  Colburn,  Coe,  Davis,  Duley, 
Dickerson,  Eschlie,  Foster,  Folsom,  Gerrish,  Hair, 
Hayden,  Hudson,  Hanson,  Holley,  Kemp,  McCune, 
McClare,  Morgan,  Mills,  Murphy,  North,  Phelps 


176 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Wednesday,  July  29. 


Putnam,  Russell,  Secombe,  Smith,  Vaughn,  "Walk- 
er, Winell,  Watson  and  Sheldon — 37. 

So  the  section  was  not  agreed  to. 

Pending  the  call  of  the  roll,  a  member 
insisted  that  Mr.  Wilson  should  vote. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  object  to  that  gentle- 
man voting,  as  he  was  without  the  bar  when 
the  question  was  stated. 

Mr.  KING.  We  Have  a  rule  which  requires 
tevery  member  to  vote  unless  excused  by  the 
ConventiorC. 

The  PRESIDENT.  The  fifteenth  rule 
says  that  every  member  who  shall  be  present 
when  the  question  shall  be  last  stated  from 
the  chair,  shall  vote  for  or  against  the  samfe, 
unless  the  Convention  shall  excuse  him,  in 
which  case  he  shall  not  vote. 

Mr.  WILSON.  I  came  in  after  the  ques- 
tion was  stated  and  the  call  of  the  roU  was 
half  completed,  and  I  hope  the  rule  wiU  be 
enforced.  (Laughter.)  I  do  not  know  any- 
thing about  the  question. 

Mr.  KING.  One  of  our  rules  require 
members  to  be  present. 

The  CHAIR  then  announced  the  result  of 
of  the  vote  as  above  stated. 

Mr.  WILSON.  I  will  record  my  vote  very 
quickly,  if  any  gentleman  will  explain  what 
the  question  is. 

The  PRESIDENT.  There  is  no  question 
before  the  Convention.     (Laughter.) 

Mr.  STANNARD.  I  move  to  amend  sec- 
tion fourteen  by  striking  out  all  after  the 
word  "  prohibited,"  so  that  we  shall  get  rid 
of  this  question  of  leasing  land  for  5,  term  of 
years.  And  besides,  it  is  a  matter  which 
fihould  be  left  to  the  Legislature. 

The  amendment  was  agreed  to. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  I  move  to  strike  out 
section  three,  and  insert  in  lieu  thereof  the 
following: 

"The  liberty  of  the  press  shall  forever  remain 
inviolate,  and  all  persons  may  freely  speak,  write 
and  publish  their  sentiments  upon  ail  subjects 
being  responsible  for  the  abuse  of  that  right." 

The  amendment  was  agreed  to. 

Mr.  CLEGIIORN,  I  move  to  amend  sec- 
tion seven  by  striking  out  the  words — 

"  Of  the  county  or  district  wherein  the  crime 
Bball  havebetn  committed,  which  county  or  district 
shall  have  been  previously  ascertained  by  law." 

— My  object  is  to  guarantee,  in  many  cases 
a  change  of  ycnue.    There  may  be  cases  of 


offenses  committed,  when  it  would  be  impos- 
sible for  the  accused  to  have  an  impartial 
trial  in  the  same  county.  I  wish  to  leave  that 
matter  to  be  provided  for  by  the  Legislature 
as  circumstances  may  demand. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  hope  the  amendment 
will  not  prevail;  It  has  been  one  of  the 
sacred  rights  always  guaranteed  to  citizens, 
that  they  should  be  tried  within  the  district 
wherein  the  crime  was  committed,  and  that 
that  district  should  be  previously  defined. 
And  if  I  really  understand  the  interpretation 
which  has  been  given  to  that  clause,  it  has 
never  prevented  the  Legislature  from  passing 
laws  providing  for  a  change  of  venue.  If, 
however,  it  is  understood  to  prevent  that,  I 
should  be  in  favor  of  giving  it  such  a  limita- 
tion that  the  Legislature  may  pass  laws 
authorizing,  in  certain  cases,  a  change  of 
venue. 

Mr.  FOSTER.  The  article  in  the  Consti- 
tution of  the  United  States  is  in  these  words : 

"In  all  criminal  prosecutions  the  accused  shall 
enjoy  the  right  to  a  speedy  and  public  trial  by  an 
impartial  jury  of  the  State  and  district  wherein  the 
crime  shall  have  been  committed,  which  district 
shall  have  been  previously  ascertained  by  law,  and 
to  be  informed  of  the  nature  and  cause  of  the 
accusation  against  him ;  to  be  confronted  with  the 
witnesses  against  him ;  to  have  compulsory  process 
for  obtaining  witnesses  in  his  favor,  and  to  have 
the  assistance  of  counsel  for  his  defence." 

That  is  pretty  high  authority  for  the  plu-ase- 
ology  we  have  employed,  and  for  one  I  desire 
to  retain  it. 

The  amendment  was  not  agreed  to. 

Mr.  HAY  DEN.  I  move  to  amend  section 
twenty-five  by  striking  out  the  words"  not  of 
vindictive,"  so  that  it  shall  read  : 

"  The  criminal  code  shall  be  founded  on  pnnci- 
ples  of  reformation  and  justice." 

Mr.  FOSTER.  If  that  amendment  pre- 
vails, I  hope  the  whole  section  will  be  stricken 
out. 

The  amendment  was  agreed  to, 

Mr.  FOSTER.  I  move  to  strike  out  the 
section  as  amended. 

The  motion  was  not  agreed  to. 

Mr.  BOLLES.  I  move  to  strike  out  sec- 
tion nineteen  and  insert  the  following : 

"No  religious  test  or  property  qualification 
shall  ever  be  required  for  civil  privileges." 

Mr.  FOSTER.  It  seems  to  me  that  the 
vital  jwint  of  section  nineteen  is  left  out  of 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Wednesday,  July  29.  177 


the  gentleman's  substitute.     The  last  part  of 
the  section  reads  as  follows  : 

"Nor  shall  any  person  be  rendered  incompetent 
to  give  evidence  in  any  court  of  law 'or  equity,  in 
consequence  of  his  opinion  upon  the  subject  of 
religion."  ^ 

If  it  is  designed  by  the  gentleman's  amend- 
ment to  allow  the  judges  of  the  Court,  in 
their  discretion  to  say  that  because  a  man 
believes  in  this  or  that  dogma  or  sect,  what- 
ever it  may  be,  therefore  he  is  not  competent 
to  give  evidence  in  a  coiu^  of  justice,  I  tliink 
we  ought  to  vote  down  the  amendment.  In 
the  progress  of  events  and  of  liberal  opinions, 
we  have  arrived  at  that  point  when  a  man's 
opinions  in  regard  to  a  Heaven  or  Hell, — in 
regard  to  the  present  and  the  futm-e,  shall  not 
incapacitate  him  to  give  evidence  in  a  Court 
of  justice,  and  the  dictum  of  no  judge  should 
exclude  him  on  that  account.  I  wish  such  a 
right  guaranteed  in  the  Constitution,  for  the 
decisions  of  judges  upon  that  question  have 
been  various.  A  man  may  be  a  man  of  truth 
and  veracity,  and  his  oath  just  as  reliable  as 
that  of  any  other  person,  even  though  he 
may  not  beUeve  in  all  the  notions  which  ar- 
considered  orthodox  in  regard  to  future  re- 
wards and  pimishments,  or  any  other  reli- 
gious doctrine  of  the  present  day.  I  am 
opposed  to  the  amendment,  for  the  reasons 
which  I  have  stated.  I  am  for  man  as  man, 
in  all  cases,  without  regard  to  his  reUgious 
belief,  and  I  am  opposed,  upon  principle,  to 
depriving  him  of  any  privileges  which  he,  as 
a  man,  is  entitled  to. 

Mr.  BOLLES.  I  differ  with  the  gentleman 
in  the  position  he  assumes  in  reference  to  the 
amendment.  I  claim  that  the  term  "  civU 
"  privileges,"  which  I  have  used,  include  all 
the  privileges  a  man  is  entitled  to  imder  the 
civil  code.  It  includes  the  privilege  of  going 
into  Court  and  testifying  as  a  witness.  We 
hold  our  religious  views  under  the  protection 
of  the  civil  laws,  when  they  do  not  infringe 
upon  the  rights  of  other  individuals,  and 
those  rights  are  included  in  the  term  "  civil 
"  privileges." 

I  am  not  tenacious  about  the  amendment. 
I  offered  it  because  I  thought  it  would  sim- 
plify the  matter,  and  was  just  wliat  we 
wanted.  The  gentleman  is  entirely  mistaken 
in  his  construction  of  its  meaning. 

Mr.  FOSTER.    That  wiU  entirely  depend 
23 


upon  the  construction  of  the  Courts  as  to 
what  "  civil  privileges  "  mean. 

The  amendment  was  not  agreed  to. 
Mr.  KING.  I  move  to  amend  section  six- 
teen by  sti-iking  out  the  words  "  arising  out 
"  of  any  contract  expressed  or  implied,"tS'^ 
that  the  section  shall  read — "  no  person  shall 
"  be  imprisoned  for  debt,  unless  in  cases  of 
"  fraud."  As  our  Constitution  is  to  be  based 
upon  principles  of  reformation  and  justice, 
perhaps  it  would  be  well  to  put  a  man  in  jail 
if  he  is  guilty  of  fraud  and  deceit,  but  in  nO 
case  on  accoimt  of  debt  simply.  That  would 
be  only  a  biu'den  upon  the  commvmity,  and 
also  upon  the  indi\'idual  who  put  him  in  jail ; 
and  without  any  good  result. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  am  in  favor  of  the 
proposed  amendment.  The  language  as  i^ 
now  stands,  is  not  only  circumlocution,  but 
it  leaves  it  a  matter  of  some  doubt  what  is 
intended.  There  are  two  classes  of  debts, — - 
those  arising  from  contracts,  and  those  ari- 
sing from  tort.  This  would  leave  the  matter 
so  that  any  person  might  be  imprisoned  in 
any  action  arising  out  of  tort,  and  in  addition 
to  that  leave  it  so  that  he  might  be  imprisoned 
in  an  action  arising  out  of  contract,  if  fraud 
were  connected  with  that  debt.  If  we  adopt 
the  amendment  offered,  it  seems  to  me  that 
it  wiU  include  the  whole  idea  that  there  shall 
be  no  imprisonment  for  debt  except  in  case  of 
fraud,  whether  that  debt  arise  out  of  contract 
originally,  or  whether  it  arises  out  [of  fraud 
originally.  There  may  be  fraudulent  circum- 
stances subsequent  to  a  debt  arising  out  of 
contract,  which  I  think  would  justify  impris- 
onment,— for  instance  the  case  of  a  debtor 
putting  his  property  out  of  his  hands,  after  a 
debt  has  arisen,  to  prevent  the  liquidation  of 
that  debt. 

Mr.  FOSTER.  Upon  this  matter  I  should 
like  to  hear  the  views  of  other  members  of 
the  legal  profession.  They  tell  me  there 
are  two  or  three  kinds  of  debt.  There  is 
debt  arising  from  damages.  That  is  what  the 
gentleman  calls  a  tort.  "Would  this  section 
prohibit  imprisonment  for  legal  penalties, — 
fines  for  instance — which  in  one  sense  are  a 
debt  to  the  State  or  community?  If  the 
striking  out  of  the  word  "proposed,"  would 
have  tliat  comprehensive  scope,  we  would  do 
well  to  pause,  for  we  should  catch  in  our  net 
almost  every  kind  of  debt. 


178 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Wednesday,  Jult  29. 


Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  do  not  understand  that 
the  word  "debt"  in  this  connection  would 
include  fines. 

Mr.  MORGAN.  It  seems  to  me  that 
the  amendment  would  simplify  the  section 
and  still  cover  the  whole  ground  desired.  It 
seems  to  me  that  there  will  ^be  no  diflSculty 
in  determining  the  application  of  the  section 
to  cases  of  fraud.  There  are  actions  upon 
contracts,  and  actions  for  damages.  Those 
are  neither  of  them  cases  of  fraud.  A  case 
of  fraud  might  be  something  like  this :  Sup- 
pose A  gives  me  a  check  upon  a  bank  where 
he  has  no  funds.  I  pay  hmi  for  the  check, 
and  he  gets  my  money  by  a  fraud ;  and  in 
such  a  case  under  this  section  I  could  arrest 
him.  It  is  to  such  cases,  that  I  understand 
the  provision  is  to  apply. 

Mr.  BILLINGS.  I  am  opposed  to  the 
amendment,  if  I  understand  it.  I  think  it 
might  be  well  to  strike  out  the  words  "  ex- 
"  pressed  or  hnplied ;"  but  to  strike  out  the 
words  "arising  out  of,  or  founded  upon  any 
"  contract,"  does  not  seem  to  me  right.  I 
think  that  there  should  be  no  imprisonment 
for  debt,  which  really  is  founded  upon  or  ari- 
ses out  of  contract.  But  where  it  arises  out 
of  fraud  I  think  the  Legislature  should  have  the 
power  to  provide  by  law  for  imprisonment  on 
that  account,  otherwise  a  man  who  has  no 
property  might  commit  a  tort  with  impunity. 
You  might  get  a  judgment  against  lum,  but 
that  would  be  the  end  of  it.  The  thing  is 
clear  as  it  now  stands,  and  there  can  be  no 
mistake  about  it,  and  no  mischief  resulting 
from  it.  On  the  contrarj;^,  great  inconven- 
ience, and  very  deplorable  results  might  fol- 
low from  striking  out  those  words,  and  there- 
"by  tying  up  the  hands  of  the  Legislature.  * 

Mr.  MOllGAN.  The  great  objection  to  all 
this  matter  is  that  it  is  a  question  of  legisla- 
tion. We  now  have  upon  our  statute  book  a 
law  which  covers  the  whole  ground  that  is 
covered  by  tliis  section,  and  I  do  not  suppose 
there  is  any  probability  of  that  law  being 
changed.  I  find  that  almost  all  our  clauses 
and  sections  upon  which  a  question  Ls  raised 
as  to  their  application,  embrace  matters  of 
lepslation,  and  not  general  principles  which 
ought  to  be  laid  down  in  a  Constitution.  Now 
this  is  a  matter  of  legislation,  and  has  usually 
been  treated  as  such,  but  perhaps  there  can 
be  no  great  objection  to  its  bebg  placed  in 


the  Bill  of  Rights,  if  it  can  be  stated  in  a 
clear  manner,  so  as  to  leave  no  doubt  upon 
the  mind  as  to  its  application.  It  seems  to 
me  that  to  say  a  man  shall  not  be  imprisoned 
for  debt  except  in  cases  of-  fraud,  is  exactly 
what  we  ij-ant,  and  covers  the  whole  gi'ound. 

Mr.  FOSTER.  I  am  under  the  impression 
that  if  we  strike  out  the  words — 

Mr.  KING.  I  rise  to  a  question  of  order. 
The  gentleman  has  already  spoken  on  this 
subject,  and  he  has  no  right  to  speak  again, 
until  other  members  who  wish  to  speak,  have 
spoken. 

(Cries  of  "Foster!"  "Foster!") 

The  PRESIDENT.  The  gentleman  will 
proceed,  as  no  other  member  claims  the  right 
to  speak. 

Mr.  FOSTER.  If  we  strike  out  the  words 
proposed,  I  am  inclined  to  think  the  section 
will  include  imprisonment  for  two  or  three 
kinds  of  debt — one,  for  instance,  damages 
rendered  by  a  jury  for  assault  and  battery, 
which  damages  then  become  a  debt,  but  not 
one  founded  on  contract.  Another  case  would 
be  where  a  man  has  damages  rendered 
against  him  for  slander.  Both  are  penalties 
and  become  debts,  though  not  founded  on 
contract  expressed  or  implied.  I  am  inclined 
to  think  that  we  ought  to  leave  the  section  as 
it  now  stands. 

Mr.  KING.  The  gentleman  supposes  that 
a  debt  may  arise  out  of  a  suit  for  slander,  and 
that  if  my  amendment  is  adopted,  the  author 
of  the  slander  could  not  be  put  in  jail  for  it. 
Well,  I  should  like  to  know  whether  the  sec- 
tion as  it  now  stands,  covers  that  ^ase — wheth- 
er there  is  any  contract  expressed  or  implied 
that  he  should  not  engage  in  slander.  He  also 
supposes  that  a  case  of  debt  might  arise  out  of 
an  assault  and  battery,  and  consequently  that 
the  offender  could  not  be  put  in  jail  for  it, 
because  it  was  a  debt  of  assault  and  battery. 
It  is  strange  that  a  man  should  make  such  an 
objection  as  that,  because  a  man  guilty  of  such 
an  act  is  liable  to  imprisonment  whetlier  there 
be  a  contract  or  not 

But  what  good  does  it  do  to  put  a  man  in 
jail  for  debt  ?  If  I  owe  a  debt,  my  only  hope 
of  liquidating  it  is  from  the  avails  of  my 
labor,  from  which  I  am  cut  off,  if  imprisoned. 
What  good  does  it  do  to  put  a  man  in  jail  for 
debt  ?  If  I  owe  a  debt,  when  am  I  going  to 
bo  able  to  pay  it,  if  I  am  put  in  jail  ?    If  left 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Wednesday,  Jcly  29. 


179 


at  large,  I  can  possibly  earn  suflScient  to 
pay  it. 

The  amendment  was  not  agreeed  to. 

Mr.  WILSON.  I  move  to  amend  section 
thirteen,  by  adding  thereto  the  words — 

"  And  the  jurv  or  commissioners  assessing  the 
damages  shall  not  take  into  consideration  any 
damages  which  will  result  to  the  owner  on  account 
of  the  improvement  for  which  it  was  taken." 

Mr.  NORTH.  I  want  to  say  to  the  gentle- 
man from  Winona,  who  offers  that  amend- 
ment, that  we  ought  to  leave  that  matter  to 
the  Legislatm-e,  and  not  legislate  upon  it  our- 
selves in  the  Constitution.  We  should  enun- 
ciate simple  principles,  and  leave  the  Legisla- 
ture to  go  into  the  minutia.  And  it  strikes 
me  further  that  the  principle  is  manifestly 
unjust.  There  might  be  a  small  piece  of 
property  taken  for  the  public  use,  by  which  an 
immense  advantage  would  accrue  to  the  owner 
of  the  whole  property ;  and  it  seems  to  me  that 
in  the  assessment  of  damages,  all  the  circum- 
stances should,  in  justice  to  the  public  and  to 
the  individual,  be  taken  into  account 

The  PRESIDENT.  The  Chair  would  re- 
mind the  gentleman  that  this  whole  matter 
was  discussed  at  length  the  other  day  during 
the  absence  of  many  members. 

Mr.  NORTH.  I  remember  that  it  was  dis- 
cussed somewhat  when  I  was  present,  and  I 
believe  I  said  something  upon  the  subject 
then.  I  am  most  decidedly  opposed  to  the 
amendment  being  added  to  the  section,  for  the 
reason  I  have  already  stated,  and  further  for 
the  reason  urged  by  the  gentleman  himself — 
applicable  to  this  case,  though  not  applicable 
to  the  case  to  which  he  applied  it — that  it  is 
purely  a  matter  of  legislation. 

Mr.  MORGAN.  This  is  a  mooted  question. 
If  gentlemen  will  look  into  the  doings  of  the 
last  LegislatvuT  at  its  extra  session,  they  will 
find  that  in  granting  acts  of  incorporation  to 
various  railroad  companies,  the  Legislature 
inserted  a  provision  that  damages  for  lands 
taken  by  those  companies,  should  be  assessed 
by  commissioners  or  a  jury,  and  that  those 
commissioners,  or  the  jury,  should  take  into 
consideration  the  benefit  to  the  party  derived 
firom  the  improvement.  That  was  adopted 
by  a  large  majority  of  the  Legislatiure.  The 
principle  has  prevailed,  also,  in  other  Legis- 
latures, and  in  others  it  has  been  discarded. 
So  it  is  a  mooted  question,  and  ought  not  to 


be  brought  into  the  Constitution,  where  we 
merely  lay  down  general  principles,  supposed 
to  be  acquiesced  in  by  a  large  majority  of 
every  community. 

Mr.  WILSON.  Mr.  President,  I  am  glad 
to  see  my  friend  from  Rice  Coimty  (Mr. 
Noeth)  show  such  a  placid  smile  to  the  Con- 
vention, as  though  he  had  proved  that  certain 
persons  had  been  inconsistent.  Now  sir, 
when  a  whole  family  are  concerned  and  suf- 
fering it  is  worse  than  when  one  woman  is 
suffering,  alone.  But  to  say  nothing  about 
woman's  rights — for  I  do  not  belong  to  that 
school — the  gentleman  did  not  give  the  right 
construction  to  my  position,  from  the  fact  that 
I  stated  distinctly  that  when  there  is  any 
probability  that  influences  will  be  brought  to 
bear  upon  the  Legislature  to  divert  it  from 
the  path  of  right,  and  to  cause  le^lators  to 
make  enactments  which  are  not  wholesome 
and  just,  then  put  restraints  upon  that  Le^s- 
lature. 

But  this  is  not  legislation,  but  prohibition 
of  legislation.  And  I  will  here  say  further 
that  the  more  numerous  the  cases  which  are 
shown  where  the  Legislature  has  gone  so  &r 
as  to  say  that  the  benefit  resulting  from  a 
public  improvement  shall  be  taken  into  ac- 
coimt  in  assessing  the  damages  of  any  indi- 
vidual the  greater  the  necessity,  and  the  more 
imperative  our  duty  to  insert  such  a  provision 
as  this  into  the  Constitution.  The  question 
resolves  itself  into  thLs :  is  it  right  or  wrong 
that  a  jury,  or  commissioners  should  in  the 
cases  supposed  take  into  consideration  the 
benefits  derived  ?  because  if  they  ought  not, 
to  take  that  into  consideration,  we  find  the 
IcOTslatures  permitting — aye  requiring — them 
to  do  so,  and  therefore  the  Legislatm-e  should 
be  restrained  from  legislating  on  that  subject 
contrary  to  the-interests  of  the  people.  Let 
us  restrict  legislation  on  this  subject  I  say. 
We  should  restrict  them,  because  corpora- 
tions have  long  purses  and  know  how  to  use 
them  effectually.  He  who  has  sat  here  and 
seen  our  Minnesota  Legislature  act,  knows 
what  can  be  done,  and  to  him  I  have  nothing 
to  say.  To  him  who  has  sat  in  the  Legisk- 
tvure  of  other  States  and  seen  them  act,  I  have 
nothing  to  say.  But  to  those  who  have  never  sat 
and  seen  the  practical  workings  of  legislative 
bodies,  I  say  that  these  corporations  hardly 
ever  fail  to  get  from  Legislatures  what  they 


160 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Wednesday,  July  29. 


wish.  The  Legislature  is  surrounded  by  a 
net-work  of  influences  which  always  prove 
efficacious.  But  such  a  provision  as  I  have 
proposed  has  not  been  inserted  in  Constitu- 
tions before,  says  some  one,  and  therefore  we 
should  not  insert  it  here.  The  world  is  grow- 
ing more  wise  and  wicked  every  day,  Mr. 
President.  Railroads  did  not  exist  when  most 
of  the  Constitutions  were  framed  ;  these  im- 
mense corporations  did  not  exist,  and  there- 
fore there  was  no  necessity  to  provide  for  such 
^n  evil.  I  have  just  been  informed  however, 
that  the  Constitution  of  Ohio  docs  contain 
such  a  pro\nsion.  That  I  did  not  know  be- 
fore, but  I  know  that  the  Constitution  of 
Iowa  framed  the  past  spring  has  such  a  pro- 
vision inserted  in  it,  and  vdth  the  consent  of 
the  Chair  I  will  read  it. 

"  Private  property  shall  not  be  taken  for  public 
use  without  just  compensation  first  being  made  or 
secured  to  be  made,  to  the  owners  thereof  as  soon 
as  the  damages  shall  be  assessed  by  a  jury,  who 
shall  not  take  into  consideration  any  advantage 
which  shall  result  to  said  ovyner  on  account  of  any 
imprpyement  for  which  it  is  taken." 

Ohio  and  Iowa  have  railroads  in  them,  and 
they  have  felt  the  influence  of  these  corpora- 
tions and  they  have  made  provisions  to  guard 
against  their  effects  in  future. 

Now  as  to  the  thing  itself,  is  it  right  or  is 
it  wrong  ?  I  do  say  in  the  first  place,  that 
unless  at  the  time  a  railroad  passes  through 
our  Territory  we  derive  a  great  benefit  from 
the  road,  we  are  great  losers  by  the  road  ? 
Why  ?  Is  not  every  real  estate  holder  in 
this  Territory  to-day  suffering  from  the  rail- 
road grant  which  has  been  made  to  the  Terri- 
tory ?  Has  it  not  checked  emigration  to  a  very 
great  extent?  Has  it  not  prevented  our  Ter- 
ritory from  being  filled  up  ?  Has  not  the 
mandate  come  from  Washington  that  no  more 
(leclaratory  statements  of  pre-emptors  shall 
be  filed  for  four  months  to  come,  and  no  pre- 
emptions shall  be  made  on  declaratory  state- 
ments made  for  four  months  past  ?  Now  to 
make  us  as  good  as  we  would  have  been,  had 
not  the  grant  been  made,  we  must  derive  an 
immediate  benefit  at  the  time  the  roads  are 
built  and  go  into  operation  ? 

Another  proposition  is  that  tliis  grant  of 
land  to  the  Territory  of  Minnesota  was  made 
for  the  i)eople  of  the  Territory  of  Minneso- 
ta, and  not  for  railroad  corporations  living 
without  the  Territory.     It  was  made  for  those 


here  who  live  by  the  cultivation  of  the  soil ; 
it  was  made  for  Minnesotians.  The  very 
railroad  companies  which  have  got  hold  of  this 
grant,  will  make  themselves  rich  by  it ;  and 
does  it  come  from  such  a  body  of  men,  with 
good  grace,  to  say  to  the  farmer  whose  farm 
is  partially  destroyed  by  the  road,  that  he  has 
reaped  an  advantage  fi-om  it,  and  that  such 
advantage  must  be  deducted  in  estimating  the 
amount  of  damages  he  sustains  ?  I  say  it 
comes  with  a  bad  grace  from  them.  If  they 
are  not  to  be  made  rich  by  it,  why  did  they 
seek  the  grant  with  such  avidity  ?  Why  did 
they  expend  so  much  money  to  get  it  ? 

To  see  how  this  matter  -v^orks,  take  an  il- 
lustration. A  and  B  own  farms  adjacent. 
The  road  runs  through  the  country  and  across 
A's  farm  and  cuts  off  ten  rods  wide  for  per- 
haps half  a  mile,  or  what  might  be  worse  cuts 
off  a  strip  of  thirty  rods  in  width  from  his 
farm.  Now  he  has  his  crops  to  protect  and 
he  must  go  to  the  expense  of  fencing,  if  per- 
chance he  is  so  fortunate  as  to  be  possessed 
of  ready  cash  to  do  so,  which  many  of  our 
farmers  have  not,  for  it  costs  a  great  deal  of 
money  where  timber  is  so  scarce.  But  whether 
he  has  or  not,  it  docs  not  change  the  prin- 
ciple. 

Mr.  NORTH.  The  law  of  the  Territory 
requires  the  road  to  build  those  fences. 

Mr.  WILSON,  Some  may  be  required  to 
do  so,  but  I  think  not  all.  I  do  not  doubt 
that  the  gentleman  states  correctly  as  far  as 
he  has  any  inforrhation,  and  I  am  not  so  well  in- 
formed as  to  speak  certainly  on  the  subject. 

Mr.  NORTH.  My  impression  was  tliat 
there  is  a  general  provision  to  that  effect. 

Mr.  WILSON.  Whether  that  be  so  or 
not,  let  us  proceed,  for  though  it  be  so,  the 
case  is  not  much  better.  The  company  apr 
points  a  man,  the  individual  whose  property 
is  taken,  appoints  another,  and  they  two  ap-^ 
point  a  third,  to  assess  the  damages.  Well, 
ho  may  have  two  or  three  hundred  acres  of 
land,  and  may  have  ten  or  fifteen  acres  cut 
off,  and  does  not  leave  his  farm  in  good  shape. 
But,  says  the  company,  what  he  has  left  us  is 
worth  double  what  it  was  before — for  you 
know  that  at  the  time  a  Railroad  is  run 
through  the  country  everybody  has  a  mania 
about  Railroads.  Say  they,  his  fann  is  worth 
thus  cut  up,  double  what  it  would  liave  been 
if  tlic  road  had  not  run  through  the  neigh-' 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— "Weditesdat,  July  29. 


181 


borhood.  Therefore  "my  good  man,  you  are 
''not  entitled  to  any  damages  whatever." 
Look  at  the  justice  of  this  thing — or  rather 
let  us  look  at  the  injustice  of  it — for  there  is 
no  justice  in  it.  In  the  first  place  it  is  not 
for  the  Railroad  monopoly  to  rise  up  and  say 
you  have  suffered  no  damages  whatever. 
Though  your  house  may  be  separated  from 
your  bam,  and  both  from  your  spring  or  well 
— ^yet  the  nominal  value  is  now  greater.  That 
corporation  sought  for  the  building  of  the 
road,  and  they  are  to  be  made  wealthy  by  it, 
and  if  any  advantage  is  to  be  derived  from 
the  rise  of  property,  the  actual  settler  and 
owner  should  be  the  one  to  benefit.  He  should 
not  be  required,  contrary  to  his  will,  to  take 
his  pay  for  actual  damages — in  nominal 
benefits. 

Mr.  NORTH.  Will  the  gentleman  permit 
me  to  rea  1  a  claase  from  the  statute  upon 
tiiis  subject  of  fences  ? 

Mr.  WILSON.     Certainly.      ' 

Mr.  NORTH.     The  act  is  in  these  words : 

"  All  the  different  companies  mentioned  in  this 
act  shall  construct  and  maintain  a  good  substantial 
fence  four  and  otfe-half  feet  high  on  both  sides  of 
their  respective  roads,  and  shall  construct  and 
maintain  cattle  guards  wherever  the  same  may 
be  necessary,  suflBcient  to  keep  cattle,  sheep,  horses 
and  hogs  from  off  the  track  of  said  road,  and  shall 
be  liable  for  all  damages  sustained  by  any  person 
by  reason  of  any  neglect  to  keep  and  maintain 
such  fence  and  cattle  guards  in  good  repair.  Said 
company  shall  make  and  keep  in  repair  such  farm 
crossings  as  shall  be  necessary  to  accommodate 
the  several  land  owners  through  which  the  said 
roads  pass." 

Mr.  WILSON.  WeU  that  makes  it  a  lit- 
tle better  for  the  farmer,  but  how  much  ? 
When  do  they  make  those  fences?  Not 
when  they  get  the  grant,  and  the  road  is  laid 
out,  but  when  they  have  completed  the  road, 
so  that  they  may  not  run  over  cattle.  But 
where  are  our  poor  farmer's  crops  during  that 
two  or  three  years  ?  He  must  have  the  fen- 
ces made  himself  for  his  own  protection.  Or 
shall  he  bring  a  suit  against  the  company  ? 
What  chance  has  a  private  individual  in  a 
'^  law  suit  against  a  corporation  of  that  kind  ? 
They  care  nothing  for  suits,  and  they  havo 
money  enough  to  defeat  him  by  protracted 
litigation.  At  any  rate  it  does  not  meet  the 
wants,  and  if  it  does,  it  meets  it  only  fro 
tanto.  Is  not  the  man's  farm  very  materially 
injured  thereby  ?    And  why  should  he  suffer 


any  more  than  his  neighbor  whose  farm  is  not 
thus  injured  and  who  yet  receives  an  equal 
benefit  \\ith  himself?  And  why  should  he 
not  be  paid  the  amount  of  those  damages? 
There  is  no  reason  but  because  these  Rail- 
road Companies  have  the  purse  to  buy  up 
the  Legislature  to  pass  such  laws  as  they 
want. 

Interest  very  essentially  affects  our  views 
of  things.  We  see  things  in  a  different  light 
when  our  interests  are  at  stake.  And  here 
let  me  say  that  I  do  not  mean  to  apply  these 
remarks  to  my  friend  from  Rice  county  (Mr. 
NoBTu)  who  spoke  before  me,  because  I  be- 
lieve he  is  honest,  and  will  act  purely,  whether 
he  is  interested  or  not,  but  I  do  say  that 
there  are  many  in  this  Hall  who  are  inter- 
ested in  Railroads  to  a  great  amount.  Who 
they  are  I  may  not  say.  But  every  member 
who  wishes  to  do  right  in  this  matter  must 
look  at  the  subject  thoroughly  before  it  is 
acted  upon.  I  hope  they  will  act  upon  it  for 
the  benefit  of  the  people,  and  against  these 
monopolies,  which  we  will  all  cm"se  from  the 
bottom  of  our  hearts  before  ten  years  roll 
around.  If  you  are  not  willing  to  have  your 
land  cut  up,  and  if  you  are  not  willing  your 
land  should  be  cut  up,  you  should  not  be 
willing  to  see  yoiu*  neighbors  so  cut — diago- 
nally or  otherwise — and  twenty,  thirty  or 
forty  acres  taken  out,  and  have  it  said  to  you 
that  you  have  sustained  no  damage.  You 
should  vot^or  the  insertion  of  this  clause  in 
the  Constitution. 

But  gentlemen  upon  the  other  side  say, 
"that  our  Legislatures  have  passed  such  laws 
"already  as  those,  I  fear,  and  we  cannot 
"  repeal  them."  Let  us  then  put  a  stop  to  it 
altogether  in  this  Territory.  These  charters 
will  be  modified  and  changed  hereafter,  and 
some  others  will  be  taken  in  their  stead,  and 
let  it  be  understood  that  hereafter  there  shall 
be  no  more  such  practices. 

I  feel  upon  this  subject.  It  is  a  matter  of 
right,  as  I  estimate  it.  We  have  wagon 
roads  by  the  sides  of  our  farms,  and  Rail- 
roads running  through  them,  and  our  farms 
may  be  literally  ruined  and  we  get  no  dama- 
ages  whatever.  Now  gentlemen,  just  consider 
who  should  pay  for  these  damages ;  consider 
for  whose  benefit  this  Railroad  grant  was 
made.  If  the  Congress  of  the  United  States 
made  a  donation  of  land,  it  was  for  us,  and 


183 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Thuksday,  July  30. 


not  for  Mr.  Broker  in  Wall  Street*  New  York, 
nor  for  Minnesota  speculators — not  for  any 
Railroad  corporation,  nor  for  any  favored 
class;  but  for  ourselves,  individually  and 
collectively.  And  it  is  not  for  them  to  say  it 
benefits  us,  and  hence  we  shall  have  no  dam- 
ages where  they  appropriate  to  themselves 
and  disfigure  our  farms.  They  have  no  right 
to  say  because  the  United  States  enriched 
them,  therefore  they  may  impoverish  us. 
They  are  to  be  made  rich  by  the  grant,  and 
why  should  the  poor  farmer  be  made  to  suffer, 
and  they  have  all  the  benefit  ?  Judging  of 
the  future  from  the  past,  our  legislators  can- 
not be  trusted.  Therefore,  let  us  stand  up 
for  the  right  and  insert  the  amendment. 

On  motion  of  Mr.  DAVIS,  (at  twelve 
o'clock  and  thirty  minutes)  the  Convention 
adjourned. 


SIXTEENTH  DAY. 

Thdbsday,  July  30th,  1857. 
The  Convention  met  at  nine  o'clock,  a.  m. 
Prayer  by  the  chaplain,  Rev.  E.  D.  Neill. 
The  journal   of  yesterday  was  read  and 
approved. 

REPORTS   OF   COMMITTEES. 

Mr.  CEDERSTAM,  from  the  conmiittee  on 
the  Elective  Franchise,  made  the  following 
report  which  was  read  a  first  and  second  time 
and  laid  on  the  table  to  be  printad,  viz : 

Sec.  1.  Every  white  male  inhabitant  of  the  age 
of  twenty -one  years  and  upwards,  (excepting  per- 
sons under  guardianship — persons  of  unsound 
mind)  who  shall  have  resided  in  the  State  six 
months,  and  in  the  town,  ward,  or  precinct  in  which 
he  may  claim  the  right  to  vote,  ten  days  next  pre- 
ceding any  election,  shall  be  entitled  to  vote  at 
such  election;  if  he  be  a  Citizen  of  the  United 
States,  or  if  he  has  been  an  inhabitant  of  the 
United  States  for  two  years  next  preceding  the 
election  at  which  he  may  claim  the  right  to  vote, 
or  if  he  shall'  be  an  inhabitant  of  this  State  at  the 
time  of  the  adoption  of  this  Constitution :  Provi- 
ded, ahoayg,  that  no  person  of  foreign  birth — and 
notacitizen  of  the  United  States — shall  be  n  quali- 
fied elector  until  he  shall  have  declared  his  inten- 
tion to  become  a  citizen  in  conformity  with  the 
laws  of  the  United  States  on  the  subject  of  natu- 
ralization. 

Sec.  2.  It  shall  be  the  duty  of  the  Legislature 
to  provide  by  law  at  its  first  session  that  lists  of  the 
names  of  qualified  electors  shall  be  used  at  nil 
elections  rtqnircd  by  this  Constitution,  and  like- 


wise to  provide  as  to  the  manner  in  which  said 
lists  shall  be  made  out  and  used,  and  the  presiding 
officers  at  said  elections  shall  uot  be  held  answera- 
ble for  refusing  the  votes  of  any  person  whose 
name  is  not  found  on  said  lists  as  required  by  law. 

Mr,  ALDRICH,  from  the  standing  com- 
mittee to  whom  was  referred  the  report  for 
the  organization  of  the  Executive  Department, 
reported  back  the  same  as  correctly  engrossed. 

Mr.  COLBURN,  from  the  committee  on 
Leave  of  Absence,  made  a  verbal  report, 
recommending  that  Mr.  Cedekstaji  have 
leave  of  absence  until  Tuesday  the  4th  day 
of  August. 

Leave  was  granted. 

COMMITTEE   ON   COAT   OF   ARMS,  &C. 

Mr.  BILLINGS  moved  that  a  committee  of 
three  on  a  Coat  of  Arms  and  State  Seal,  be 
appointed  by  the  Chair. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to,  and  thereupon 
the  PRESIDENT  appointed  Messrs.  Bil- 
lings, Lowe  and  Bolles. 

PREAMBLE   AND   BILL   OF   EIGHTS. 

Under  the  regular  order  of  business  the 
Convention  proceeded  to  the  consideration  of 
the  report  upon  the  Preamble  and  Bill  of 
Rights, — being  the  unfinished  business  of 
yesterday — the  pending  question  being  on 
amending  section  thirteen  by  adding  thereto 
the  following : 

"  And  the  jury  or  commissioners  assessing  the 
damages,  shall  not  take  into  consideration  any 
advantage  which  may  result  to  the  owner  on 
account  of  the  improvement  for  which  it  was 
taken." 

Mr.  PERKINS.  I  move  to  amend  the 
amendment  by  striking  out  the  words,  "  the 
"damages,"  and  inserting  "such  compen- 
"sation." 

I  offer  the  amendment,  (though  I  am  op- 
posed to  the  whole  thing,)  for  sundry  reasons. 
One  is  that  it  is  a  matter  which  properly 
belongs  to  the  Legislature.  That  is  an 
objection  which  has  been  frequently  urged 
here,  and  the  gentleman  from  Winona  has 
urged  it  as  frequently  as  anybody  else.  I 
think  it  is  a  good  and  valid  objection  generally. 
Such  matters  should  have  no  place  in  our 
Constitution. 

I  object  to  it  still  further  because  I  think 
the  amendment  goes  further  than  this  Con- 
vention .should  go,  and  I  may  say  that  it  goes 
further  than  any  Convention  ever  has  gone. 


MINNESOTA  CONTENTION  DEBATES— Thcksdat,  Jclt  30. 


183 


I 


The  gentleman  from  Winona  (Mr.  Wilson) 
read  yesterday  from  the  Constitution  of  Ohio, 
as  sanctioning  such  a  provision.    It  strikes  me, 
upon  reading  that  section  myself,  that  it  carries 
no  such  sanction  with  it,  and  that  the  Constitu- 
tion of  Ohio,  in  fact,  goes  no  further  than  the 
Constitution  of  the  United   States  and  the 
Constitutions  of  all  other  Statfs.      It  does 
sanction  the   idea   that  the    commissioners 
in  assessing  the  damages  a  man  sustains,  shall 
not  offset  the  leneJiU  which  accrue  to  him  from 
the  public  improvement.    It  is  however  declar- 
atory of  the  principles  which  the  courts  have 
declared  time  and  again.     I  recoUect  a  case 
which  occmred  in  Vertnont,  where  there  is  a 
statute  which  declares  that  the  commissioners 
in  assessing  the  damages,  may  take  into  account 
tne  benefits  which  accrue  to  the  individual 
also.      It  was    contended  that  that  statute 
was  imconstitutional,  as  being  in  violation  of 
that  clause  in  the  Constitution  of  the  United 
States  which  provides  that  no  man's  property 
shall  be  taken  for  public   use  without  just 
compensation  being  made.     The   case    was 
carried  up  to  the  Supreme  Court,  and  the 
court  decided  that  it  was  in  conformity  to  the 
Constitution  of  the  United  States,  and  that 
damages  and    compensation    were    different 
things,  and  that  when  property  is  taken  for 
public  use,  it  must  be  compensated  for  in 
money,  and   that  it  was  unconstitutional  to 
pass  laws  to  provide  that  so  far  as  the  com- 
pensation is  concerned,  the  benefits  shall  be 
offset.     The  courts  have  fi^quently  decided 
that  this  compensation  means  compensation 
in  money,  and  the  benefits  which  accrue  can- 
not be  offset.     It  seems  to  me  that  that  is  the 
right  principle,  and  that  the  Constitution  does 
not  go  any  further  than  that.     The  Constitu- 
tion of  Ohio  does  not  say  that  in  assessing 
the  damages — which'  the    courts    say  is  a 
different  thing  from  the  actual  value  of  the 
property — the  benefits  shall  not  be  offset,  but 
it  uses  the  word  "  compensation."     It  may 
be  well  enough  to  settle  in  the  Constitution  a 
principle  which  has  lead  to  considerable  dis- 
cussion in  the  courts,  but  I  am  unwilling  to 
go  to  the  length  which  the  gentleman  from 
Winona  wishes  to  go.     I  think  that  when  a 
man's  property  is  taken,  he  shall  be  compen- 
sated for  the  actual  value,  but  if  he  claims 
damages  beyond  the  actual  value  of  the  prop- 
erty, the  benefits  which  accrue  shall  be  offset 


It  does  not  seem  to  me  a  good  argument  that 
some  other  person's  property  is  benefited  as 
much  as  his  whose  property  is  taken,  because 
you  are  here  establishing  a  universal  rule.  I 
think  it  is  better  for  us  in  framing  our  Con- 
stitution, to  follow  universal  precedents,  and 
to  adhere  to  the  land-marks  laid  down  by  the 
Constitution  of  the  United  States. 

The  amendment  to  the  amendment  was  not 
agreed  to. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  As  the  principle  con- 
tained in  this  amendment  has  been  thoroughly 
discussed,  I  call  for  the  yeas  and  nays. 

Mr.  WILSON.  I  think  there  are  other 
gentlemen  in  the  Convention  who  desire  to 
make  some  remarks  upon  this  subject,  and  I 
hope  the  gentleman  will  withdraw  his  call, 
and  allow  them  to  have  the  same  privilege 
others  have  enjoyed. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  do  not  suppose  that 
the  call  for  the  yeas  and  nays  will  preclude 
them. 

The  PRESIDENT.  The  Chair  is  disposed, 
if  the  yeas  and  nays  are  ordered,  not  to  hear 
any  further  discussion. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  am  not  disposed  to  cut 
off  further  discussion,  and  I  therefore  with- 
draw the  calL 

Mr.  McKUNE.  I  move  a  substitute  for 
the  amendment,  and  that  is  to  strike  out  the 
word  "  therefor,"  in  the  originjd  section  and 
insert — 

"Rrst  being  made,  tendered,  or  secured  to  be 
made  to  the  owner." 

Mr.  BATES.  I  am  opposed  to  the  amend- 
ment, and  to  everything  which  has  been  of- 
fered, thus  far,  to  change  this  section.  I  be- 
lieve it  is  right  as  it  now  stands. 

There  has  been  much  said  here  of  the  pe- 
culiar circumstances  in  which  we  are  placed. 
We  are  told  that  we  are  placed  in  such  pe- 
culiar circumstances  that  we  are  obliged  to 
leave  out  of  the  Constitution  everything  upon 
which  there  is  much  difference  of  opinion. 
Now  we  know  that  this  amendment  intro- 
duces a  question  on  which  there  is  great  di- 
versity of  opinion,  and  which  will  meet  with 
decided  opposition  from  many  quarters.  Upon 
that  ground  I  am  opposed  to  it,  if  there  is 
any  force  to  be  given  to  that  objection. 

I  am  opposed  to  it  also  upon  the  ground  that 
it  introduces  a  species  of  legislation  into  the 
Bill  of  Rights  about  which  so  much  has  been 


184 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Thcesday,  July  30. 


said.  If  there  is  anything  which  can  be 
called  legislation,  that  amendment  is  such. 
What  does  the  original  section  say ?  "No 
"  private  property  shall  be  taken  for  public 
*'  use  without  just  compensation  therefor." 
Is  not  that  all  we  want  ?  Does  a  man  want 
unjust  compensation  for  his  property  ?  If  he 
has  a  just  compensation,  is  not  that  sufficient  ? 
If  a  man  receives  the  worth  of  his  property, 
he  is  as  well  off  as  he  was  before. 

But  say  gentlemen,  damages  may  accrue. 
But  if  damages  are  to  be  taken  into  account 
is  it  not  just  and  proper  that  the  profit  should 
be  taken  into  account  also  ?  If  a  man  re- 
ceives the  value  of  his  property  and  then 
claims  that  damages  should  be  paid  in  addi- 
tion to  that,  is  it  not  equitable  that  advantages 
should  be  offset?  I  hope  that  the  section 
will  remain  as  it  now  is. 

Mr.  BOBBINS.  I  am  in  favor  of  the 
amendment  offered  by  the  gentleman  from 
Winona.  It  seems  to  me  that  if  a  farmer 
owns  a  farm  which  to-day  is  worth  ten  dollars 
an  acre,  and  a  railroad,  by  passing  through  it, 
cuts  off  twenty -five  acres,  it  is  no  more  than 
fair  and  just  that  he  should  have  the  actual 
value  of  the  land  in  damages.  Here  is  a  man 
who  owns  a  farm  worth  ten  dollars  an  acre. 
A  railroad  passes  through  it,  and  makes  the 
land  worth  tvrenty  dollars  an  acre.  Now  if 
I  understand  that  amendment  to  mean  that 
when  damages  are  assessed,  that  land  should 
be  calculated  at  twenty  doUars  an  acre,  I 
should  be  most  decidedly  opposed  to  it.  But 
such  is  not  its  effect.  It  only  gives  the  value 
of  the  land,  before  the  road  was  run  through 
it,  as  damages. 

Mr,  NORTH.  I  am  most  decidedly  op^ 
posed  to  the  amendment  of  the  gentleman 
from  Winona,  for  the  reasons  assigned  by  the 
gentleman  from  Minneapolis,  as  well  as  those 
assigned  by  others.  It  seems  to  me  that  if 
there  is  any  force  in  the  argument  that  we 
ought  not  to  go  into  special  legislation  in  the 
Constitution,  that  objection  certainly  applies 
here.  If  there  is  any  force  in  the  argument 
that,  under  the  peculiar  circumstances  in 
which  we  are  placed,  we  should  not  introduce 
into  the  Constitution  a  new  principle  which 
has  not  heretofore  been  introduced  into  anyi 
Constitution,  it  applies  here,  when  we  attempt 
to  adopt  a  principle  which  will  strike  a  large 
portion  of  the  p«oi)le  of  this  Territory  as  very 


unjust.  I  know  that  such  a  provision  as  that 
would  be  regarded  as  unjust  in  the  extremcj 
and  it  seems  to  me  that  it  bears  that  injustice 
upon  its  face.  For  the  provision  applies  to 
all  kinds  of  public  improvements,  such  as 
common  roads,  and  Territorial  roads  as  well 
as  to  railroads.  These  gentlemen  harp  upon 
railroads,  asithough  they  were  the  only  roads 
to  which  this  principle  was  to  apply.  They 
are  entirely  mistaken.  According  to  that  pro- 
vision, every  man  who  has  a  common  road 
laid  out  through  his  farm,  could  tax  the  peo- 
ple of  the  county  to  pay  for  it,  even  though 
he  had  petitioned  for  the  road  for  his  own  ac- 
commodation. Look  at  the  effect  of  the 
amendment  to  the  amendment.  Here  a  man 
wants  a  road  laid  out  through  his  farm,  and 
petitions  for  it,  and  then  that  road  cannot  be 
laid  out  until  he  is  paid  for  the  land,  and  the 
persons  appointed  to  assess  damages  must 
appraise  the  land  at  its  full  value,  regardless 
of  the  advantages  the  individual  may  derive 
from  it  even  though  he  may  have  been  willing 
to  give  ten  times  the  value  of  the  land  for  the 
purpose  of  getting  the  road. 

The  section  as  it  now  stands  provides  for 
just  compensation.  Do  we  want  more  than 
is  just  ?  It  is  a  provision  sanctioned  by  long 
continuance  in  the  Constitutions  of  other 
States,  and  this  new  provision  is  an  innovation 
which  ought  not  to  be  countenanced  at  this 
time. 

Mr.  McCLURE.  I  am  opposed  to  the 
amendment  to  the  amendment,  and  also  to  the 
amendment  itself.  The  section  simply  states 
that  private  property  shall  not  be  taken  foi* 
public  use  without  just  compensation — with- 
out making  any  distinction  between  real  and 
personal  property.  Justice  is  to  be  done  to 
the  individual  whose  property  is  taken,  and 
in  my  judgment  we  cannot  insert  an  amend- 
ment so  as  to  do  justice  without  we  draw  a 
distinction  between  personal  and  real  property, 
from  the  simple  fact  that  a  clause  inserted 
here  which  would  apply  to  personal  property, 
could  not  be  applied  to  real  property. 

In  my  judgment  it  ought  to  be  left  to  the 
Legislature  to  say  what  would  be  just  com- 
pensation. This  argument  has  proceeded  uj)on 
the  supposition  that  only  real  property  would 
be  taken.  I  think  the  section  is  right  as  it  is, 
because  it  simply  provides  that  just  corapen^ 
sation  shall  be  made,  and  in  my  judgment,  if 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Thubsdat,  July  80. 


185 


the  value  of  the  individual's  laild  is  enhanced, 
something  ought  to  be  allowed  to  the  indi- 
vidual or  company  who  thus  enhances  the 
value. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  I  hope  the  amend- 
ment will  not  prevail.  I  am  satisfied  that  it 
partakes  too  much  of  legislation,  and  I  do  not 
believe  that  imder  the  Constitution  of  the 
United  States  that  clause  would  be  of  any 
avail.  An  appeal  may  be  taken  from  the  de- 
cision of  the  persons  or  commissioners  ap- 
pointed to  assess  the  damages,  and  when  that 
appeal  is  taken  and  it  goes  into  another  tri- 
bunal, you  will  have  to  take  for  a  guide  the 
decisions  of  the  courts  upon  the  very  same 
clause  which  is  contained  in  the  section  which 
is  proposed  to  be  amended — and  that  is  upon 
the  question  of  just  compensation. 

Mr.  WILSON.  I  think  it  is  singular,  Mr. 
President,  that  some  gentlemen  in  this  Con- 
vention should  press  their  objections  upon  the 
groimd  that  this  partakes  of  legislation.  I 
say  it  is  singular  when  they  have  before  them 
the  reports  of  some  eight  standing  committees, 
to  whom  they  have  referred  the  different  parts 
of  the  Constitution,  and  in  every  such  report 
there  is  not  only  that  which  savors  of  legisla- 
tion, but  is  legislation  far  more  thin  this.  I 
think  in  the  face  of  that  fact,  it  is  singular 
that  this  objection  should  be  pressed — and 
pressed  too  for  the  pui-pose  of  producing  ef- 
fect and  having  an  influence  upon  the  decision 
of  a  question  which  they  do  not  want  to  meet 
fairly  and  squarely.  The  position  I  take  is 
this ;  where  there  is  danger,  real  danger  that 
the  Legislature  will  do  wrong,  there  throw 
restrictions  around  it  in  the  Constitution. 
Where  the  people's  rights  are  likely  to  be 
trampled  upon  by  the  Legislature,  there  restrict 
the  Legislature  by  the  Constitution.  When 
such  a  case  as  that  arises,  no  man  will  deny 
that  the  framers  of  the  Constitution  are  bound 
to  insert  a  restrictive  clause. 

Now  let  us  put  this  matter  upon  that  basis. 
We  all  know  that  Legislatures  have  been 
inclined  to  favor  monopolies,  and  disregard 
the  rights  of  the  poor  man,  and  the  men  hold- 
ing property  throughout  the  country ;  that 
they  have  done  it  and  have  continued  to  do 
it,  and  that  the  railroad  companies  have  al- 
ways got  all  they  wanted  and  all  they  asked 
for.  I  need  not  quote  precedents.  Gentle- 
men themselves  have  quoted  precedents  enough 
24 


and  they  are  in  my  fiivor.  They  have  them- 
selves shown  that  the  Legislature  will  do  that 
which  is  wrong  in  this  respect.  Now  when 
we  have  the  evidence  before  us  in  our  own 
Territorial  laws,  that  the  Legislature  wiU  sanc- 
tion such  a  covirse  of  proceedings,  I  say  w^ 
are  bound  in  conscience  to  restrict  them. 

One  word  as  to  the  argument  brought  up 
here  by  the  gentleman  from  Minneapolis  (Mr. 
Bates)  and  responded  to  by  the  gentlemari 
from  Rice  County  (Mr.  Nobth).  I  spnm  and 
hate  all  arguments  such  as  that  we  shall  have 
the  r:\ilroad  influences  down  upon  our  Con- 
stitution ;  that  it  is  impolitic  to  do  this.  If 
the  railroad  interest  is  against  the  interest  of 
the  coimtiy,  then  down  with  the  raUroad  in- 
terest, and  up  with  the  people. 

Mr.  NORTH.  The  gentleman  will  aUow 
me  to  correct  him  in  one  point.  I  am  not 
aware  that  the  gentleman  from  Rice  County 
responded  to  any  such  sentiment,  or  that  the 
gentleman  from  Minneapolis  uttered  it 

Mr.  WILSON.  The  gentleman  from  Min- 
neapolis said  that  we  should  get  the  railroad 
interest  arrayed  against  us ;  and  the  gentle- 
man from  Rice  said  he  responded  to'  it. 

Mr.  NORTH.  I  said  that  a  very  large  por- 
tion of  the  people  of  the  Terrifory  would  b6 
found  opposed  to  it ;  and  not  the  railroads,  and 
the  railroad  companies. 

Mr.  BATES.  I  remarked  that  a  great  deal 
had  been  said  in  this  Convention  in  regard  to 
the  peculiar  circumstances  in  which  we  are 
placed,  and  that  much  had  been  said  that 
we  could  not  act  out  our  honest  sentiments 
and  convictions  of  duty  for  fear  of  arraying 
this  or  that  interest  against  us ;  and  adopting 
that  principle  of  action,  I  thought  it  wrong  to 
insist  upon  this  amendment  here,  because  it 
did  introduce  into  this  Constitution  a  question 
upon  which  there  were  opposite  views,  and 
to  which  a  great  many  of  our  people  are 
strongly  opposed. 

Mr.  WILSON.  Yds  sir,  just  so—"  stroiigly 
"opposed"  by  a  great  many  people  of  this 
Territory,  and  I  understood  the  inunendo  as 
referring  to  those  who  had  an  interest  in  rail- 
roads, and  the  gentleman  from  Rice  County 
said  he  heartily  responded  to  the  speech  of 
the  gentleman  from  Minneapolis. 

Mr.  NORTH.  I  stated  clearly  wherein  I  re- 
sponded to  the  gentleman  from  Minneapolis 
so  clearly  that  nobody  need  misunderstand  me; 


186 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Thubsdat,  July  30. 


Mr.  WILSON.  I  did  not  desire  or  intend 
to  put  the  gentleman  in  a  false  position,  or  to 
misconstrue  his  language.  Now,  sir,  I  say  I 
have  no  respect  for  such  a  position  as  that, 
though  I  may  for  the  men  who  utter  them,  at 
times.  Such  a  consideration  will  never  in- 
fluence me  one  particle.  If  this  is  the  be- 
ginning where  will  be  the  end  of  it.  If  in 
one  short  year  these  corporations  have  got 
this  strong  hold,  when  grown  to  manhood 
■*vhat  will  they  be  ?  Their  grasp  will  be  like 
that  of  the  giant,  and  we  will  fall  beneath 
them. 

But,  says  my  friend  from  Chisago  counlty, 
this  amendment  will  not  make  any  difference. 
The  construction  of  the  courts  will  be  just 
the  same  as  it  would  be  without  the  amend- 
ment. Now  I  am  astonished  at  such  an 
assertion,  and  that,  too,  from  one  for  whose 
legal  opinion  and  sound  judgment  I  have  great 
respect  and  confidence.  When  he  says  that, 
he  says  it  in  direct  opposition  to  the  declaration 
of  the  Legislature  in  several  cases,  and  of 
the  courts  in  cases  without  number.  I  do  not 
know  asingle  State  in  which  the  question  has 
not  bred  a  "great  deal  of  discord,  and  so  much 
so  that  they  have  been  driven  to  the  necessity 
of  putting  such  a  provision  as  this  into  some 
of  their  Constitutions.  It  has  been  said  that 
the  State  of  Ohio  has  not  made  any  such 
rule  as  that  which  I  propose.  Let  me  read 
from  her  Constitution.  To  make  assurance 
doubly  sure,  they  inserted  it  in  two  places. 
In  the  Bill  of  Rights  they  say : 

"  Private  property  shall  ever  bf  held  inviolate, 
but  subservient  to  the  public  welfare.  When 
taken  in  time  of  war  or  other  public  exigency, 
imperatively  requiring  its  immediate  seizure,  or 
for  the  purpose  of  making  or  repairing  roads, 
which  shall  be  open  to  the  public  without  charge, 
a  compensation  shall  be  made  to  the  owner  in 
nloney,  and  in  all  cases  where  private  property 
shall  be  taken  for  public  use,  a  compensation 
therefor  shall  be  first  made  in  money,  or  first 
secured  by  a  deposit  of  money ;  and  such  compen- 
sation shall  be  assessed  by  a  jury  without  deduc- 
tion for  benefits  to  any  property  of  the  owner." 

Then  turn  over  to  the  article  on  Corpora- 
tions and  you  find  this  : 

"  The  right  of  way  shall  not  be  appropriated  to 
the  use  of  any  corporation  until  full  compensation 
therefor  be  first  made  in  money,  or  first  secured  by 
a  deposit  of  money,  to  the  owner,  irrespective  of 
any  benefit  from  any  improvement  .proposed  by 
such  corporation." 


And  I  will  say  now  that  I  should  prefer  to 
have  incorporated  with  my  amendments  a 
provision  for  full  compensation  in  money,  or 
a  deposit  in  money  ;  for  I  do  not  want  these 
corporations  to  pay  us  any  thing  else  than 
money.  They  can  law  an  individual  any 
length  of  time,  but  if  they  make  a  deposit  in 
money,  there  is  no  use  in  lawing  it. 

Such  are  the  provisions  of  the  Ohio  Con- 
stitution. Now  I  will  read  again  what  I  read 
yesterday  from  the  recently  formed  Constitu- 
tion of  Iowa : 

"Private  property  shall  not  be  taken  for  public 
use  without  just  compensation  first  being  made,  or 
secured  to  Be  made,  to  the  owners  thereof  as  soon 
as  the  damages  shall  be  assessed  by  a  jury,  who 
shall  not  take  into  consideration  any  advantage 
which  shall  result  to  said  owner  on  account  of  any 
improvement  for  which  it  is  taken." 

Mr.  BILLINGS.  I  would  inquire  of  the 
gentleman  if  that  Constitution  has  yet  bee» 
adopted. 

Mr.  WILSON.  It  has  not  yet,  but  I  sup- 
pose there  is  no  doubt  but  what  it  will  be 
adopted.  It  is  a  Constitution  just  framed 
by  a  people  who  have  felt  the  iron  heel  of 
these  railroad  monopolies.  Gentlemen  say 
that  there  are  no  precedents  for  such  an 
article.  I  show  them  that  there  arc  prece- 
dents, and  they  would  be  more  numerous 
were  it  not  for  the  feet  that  until  recently 
there  has  been  no  necessity  for  such  a  pro- 
vision. Most  of  the  Constitutions  were 
framed  when  there  were  few  or  no  railroads. 
We  are  not  then  taking  the  initiative  in  tliis 
matter,  but  are  following  where  others  have 
found  it  absolutely  and  imperatively  necessary 
to  go. 

But  say  some,  if  a  man's  damages  are  to 
be  assessed,  of  course  his  benefits  should  be 
reckoned  too.  I  answered  that  point  yester- 
day,— and  I  answered  it  to  my  satisfaction. 
It  is  not  for  these  railroad  companies  who  are 
being  made  wealthy  by  this  munificent  gi-ant 
of  land  made  by  the  United  States  for  our 
benefit — not  for  the  benefit  of  i-ailroad  compa- 
nies— to  say  to  us  that  we  shall  not  reap  the 
benefits  of  that  grant.  It  was  made  for  the 
benefit  of  you  and  me,  and  all  of  us  Miim«- 
sotians,  and  it  does  not  come  with  good  grace 
from  those  companies  to  use  such  language 
to  the  fanners  and  real  property  holders  of 
the  country,  whoso  acres  they  take  for  their 
own  benefit.    And  if  the  people  of  tlie  coun- 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Thcesdat,  Jcly  30. 


187 


try  are  to  bear  the  expense  of  building  these 
roads,  why  should  they  not  bear  those  expen- 
ses equally,  and  not  have  it  shouldered  upon 
a  few  men  who  are  so  unfortunate  as  to  have 
the  road  run  diagonally  through  their  fami. 

I  have  made  a  little  calculation.  Within 
the  space  of  one  mile  we  will  have  sixteen 
farms — and  I  would  rather  be  a  mile  from  the 
road  than  upon  it — and  each  of  these  sixteen 
farms  is  benefitted  as  much  as  the  particular 
farm  through  which  the  road  runs,  and  now 
I  ask  why  should  one  bear  all  the  damages 
while  there  are  fifteen  others  who  reap  the 
benefits  equally.     That  is  aU  wrong. 

But  I  must  say  that  I  cannot  appreciate 
the  argument  of  my  friend  over  the  way,  that 
the  amendment  does  not  apply  equally  to 
real  and  personal  property.  Will  such  an 
argument  as  that  satisfy  any  constituency 
when  their  farms  are  run  through  and  cut  up, 
and  thus  are  compelled  to  build  fences  to 
protect  their  crops,  or  wait  until  after  the 
roads  are  ready  to  be  nm  ?  For  those  roads 
do  not  protect  a  man's  crops  at  first. 

Mr.  NORTH.  The  gentleman  misappre- 
hends the  statute  requiring  the  company  to 
build  fences  entu'ely. 

Mr.  WILSON.  But  there  are  no  fences 
until  the  roads  are  built. 

Mr.  NORTH.  The  gentleman  claims  that 
to  be  a  statute  provision,  which  is  not  such  at 
aU. 

Mr.  WILSON.  I  feel  an  interest  in  this 
matter,  and  the  coimtry  feels  an  interest  in  it 
too,  and  it  wiU  be  a  poor  excuse  for  us  to  say 
to  them  that  the  Bill  of  Rights  is  not  the 
proper  place  for  any  such  provision.  I  am 
in  favor  of  any  provision  which  accomplishes 
the  object,  I  care  not  what  its  wording  may 
be.  Give  us  something  to  protect  ourselves 
with  against  these  monopolies.  Give  us 
something  which  will  grant  us  equal  rights 
all  over  the  country.  This  is  a  matter  in 
which  we  are  following  in  the  lead  of  others, 
and  it  is  something  which  I  think  the  country 
requires. 

If  my  proposition  then,  be  absolutely  just, 
vote  for  it.  It  is  no  more  legislation  than  a 
thousand  other  things  which  are  in  oiu:  Con- 
stitution. It  is  no  more  legislation  than  the 
insertion  of  a  clause  protecting  the  rights  of 
property  of  married  women.  I  want  a  pro- 
vision which  will  protect  married  women,  and 


children,  and  old  men ;  not  one  which  will  be 
confined  in  its  operation  to  married  women 
only.  How  many  more  will  this  clause  pro- 
tect, than  that  clause  which  declares  that  in* 
voluntary  servitude  shall  never  exist  in  Min- 
nesota ?  Let  us  be  consistent.  Let  us  not 
in  legislating  upon  particular  points,  lose  sight 
of  others  quite  as  important.  I  do  not  be- 
lieve men  will  be  governed  by  their  interests 
here,  but  let  me  tell  you  it  is  hard  to  see 
through  a  gold  dollar,  and  there  are  in  this  Hall 
a  great  many  men  interested  in  Railroads.  I 
say  our  interests  imperceptibly  warp  our 
judgments,  and  it  behooves  those  who  are 
not  interested  to  stand  up  and  see  what  they 
are  doing. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  Having  expressed  myself 
explicitly  upon  this  question  the  other  day, 
I  did  not  intend  to  say  anything  more,  but 
the  gentleman  from  Winona  has  taken  such 
a  course  that  I  deem  it  my  privilege,  if  not 
my  duty,  to  make  a  few  further  remarks. 
When  the  gentleman  made  his  first  attack 
upon  Railroad  corporations, — when  he  lugged 
it  into  the  argument  himself  for  the  first 
time ;  when  he  set  it  up  as  a  windmill  against 
which  to  direct  his  batteries,  I  supposed  he 
was  setting  it  up  just  from  his  natural  love 
and  desire  of  setting  it  up  and  then  battering 
it  down  again.  But  I  believe  the  gentleman 
now  really  begins  to  mean  what  he  says. 

The  gentleman  says  he  wants  them  to  pay 
us  the  money.  I  really  myself  begin  to  be- 
Ueve  that  the  gentleman,  from  his  proximity 
to  W  inona,  from  which  he  hails,  knows  some- 
thing about  tliis  question,  and  is  really  afraid 
that  he  is  going  to  be  benefitted  by  one  of 
these  outrageous  corporations.  I  do  not  know 
that  it  is  so,  but  the  gentleman  himself  says 
that  he  feels  a  very  great  interest  in  the  mat- 
ter. Now  the  gentleman  takes  the  ground 
that  other  gentlemen  here  should  not  be  in- 
consistent. I  have  no  objection  to  the  gen- 
tleman from  Winona  being  inconsistent.  I 
have  no  objection  to  his  defending  the  doc- 
trine that  we  should  not  legislate  in  this 
Constitution.  I  have  no  objection  to  his 
advocating  that  doctrine  upon  one  subject, 
and  then  turning  right  about  face,  and  advo- 
cating a  contrary  doctrine  upon  another  sub- 
ject. But  when  he  does  so,  I  do  not  want 
him  to  charge  other  people  with  being  incon« 
sistent,  and  complain  of  that. 


188 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Thuesday,  July  30. 


Now,  Mr.  President,  I  take  it  that  it  is  not 
pecessary  tliat  all  the  members  of  this  Con- 
vention should  vote  upon  the  merits  of  the 
principle  which  is  contended  for  here,  although 
I,  for  one,  would  not  be  afraid  to  risk  this 
matter  upon  that  very  question  of  principle. 
I  do  believe  that  this  Convention  does  consist 
of  men  who  laave  the  natural  principles  of 
justice  and  equity  in  their  hearts,  and  \n  their 
heads ;  and  that  if  the  sense  of  th^s  Conven- 
tion should  be  taken  on  t^ie  very  question 
whether,  when  a  man  is  benefitted,  almost 
beyond  comparison  perhaps,  by  a  public  im- 
provement, he  should  require  the  full  amount 
pf  damages  he  may  sustain,  they  woi4d  de- 
cide it  in  the  negative.  But  at  the  same  time 
I  contend  that  gentlemen  here,  who  have  all 
along  strenuously  objected  to  special  legisla- 
tion in  this 'Constitution,  have  the  rio;ht  to 
put  their  objection  upon  that  ground.  I  am 
not  one  of  those  who  have  been  so  particu- 
larly opposed  to  incorpoi^ating  into  the  Con- 
stitution some  matters  that  might  be  left  to 
future  legislation.  The  gentleman  from  AYi- 
nona  has  been  one  of  tt^ose.  That  gentleman 
not  content  with  Ringing  out  his  general  slurs 
upon  those  who  have  been  inconsistent,  must 
need  bring  up  again  a  matter  which  has  once 
been  decided  by  this  Convention,  and  by  a 
vote  which  I  thought  should  put  the  gentle- 
man to  the  blush.  I  mean  the  subject  of  the 
recognition  in  tliis  Constitution  of  certain 
rights  of  married  women.  AVhen  that  sub- 
iect  was  up  for  consideration,  the  gentleman 
was  very  much  opposed  to  it,  not  only  on 
principle,  but  because  it  was  matter  of  legis- 
lation. But  now  the  gentleman  undertakes 
to  discriminate  by  saying  tliat  he  would  legis- 
late in  this  Convention  upon  such  points  as 
we  believe — judging  from  the  past  action  of 
^e  Legislature — will  not  be  suflBciently  pro- 
moted. Now  I  ask  the  gentleman  wlfiat  com- 
fort he  can  get  by  his  allusion  to  the  subject 
which  was  before  the  Convention  yesterday, 
upon  that  point?  Does  not  past  legislation 
Rhow.that  that  particular  class  never  liave  had 
their  rights ;  and  does  it  not  show  that  this 
doctrine  of  inconsistency,  like  birds  of  a  cer- 
i/aia  kind,  go  homo  at  night  to  roost  ? 

I  hope  gentlemen  wl^q  are  opposed  to 
special  legislation  will  vote  against  this  amend- 
ment, and  tliat  those  opposed  to  it  in  princi- 
ple, will  vote  against  it,  without  regard  to 


any  imputations  thrown  out  by  any  gentle, 
man. 

Mr.  NORTH.  One  word  Mr.  President, 
in  regard  to  the  insiimations  which  have  been 
thrown  out  against  certain  Railroad  men  in 
this  Convention.  I  suggest  whether  it  is  not 
ungenerous  and  unmanly  to  throw  out  insinua- 
tions of  that  kind  so  frequently  as  they  have 
been  from  that  quarter,  in  regard  to  this  sub- 
ject. I  had  supposed  there  were  interests  to 
be  guarded  upon  all  sides.  I  supposed  that 
the  public  interest  in  regard  to  common  roads, 
was  to  be  looked  to,  as  well  as  those  of  Rail- 
road companies,  whiph  the  gentleman  from 
Winona  seems  to  dwell  upon  incessantly. 
He  dwells  upon  the  interests  of  the  poor 
man,  tlu'ough  whpse  lands  the  Railroads  pass, 
and  the  immense  wealth  of  those  Railroad 
corporations.  I  believe  it  is  a  .fact  that  there 
are  some  wealthy  land  holders,  as  well  as 
poor  land  holders — some  wealthy  land  pro- 
prietors as  well  as  wealthy  Raili'oati  compa-. 
nies,  and  if  I  were  to  judge  from  the  long 
speeches  which  are  made  here,  I  should  sup- 
pose there  were  some  very  special  interests  to, 
be  fought  over  in  this  Convention.  And  I 
would  suggest  that  gentlemen  should  not 
throw  stones  when  stones  may  be  throwTi  in 
the  other  direction.  It  is  possible  that  there 
may  be  interests  quite  as  much  upon  one 
side  as  upon  the  other. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  hope  the  amendment 
will  not  be  adopted.  Notwithstanding  the 
eloquence  and  ability  with  which  the  gentle- 
man has  urged  it,  I  have  failed  to  see  the 
necessity  for  it.  It  seems  to.  me  that  the 
tliirteenth  section  of  this  bill  is  all  that  is  re- 
quired for  the  protection  of  the  people.  The 
reasojw  urged  for  it,  are  based  principally 
upon  the  assumption  that  our  future  legisla- 
tures arc  not  ^o  do  their  duty — that  they  are 
to  be  corrupted  jyjd  bought,  as  the  gentleman 
from  Winona  exp];'esses  it,  by  the  long  purses 
of  our  Railroad  corporations.  I  ixm  not  will- 
ing to  act  upon  tliat  presumption.  We  have, 
it  is  true,  the  right  to  recognize  the  possibility 
of  Legislatures  being  comapted  and  bought, 
but  when  we  assume  tliat  they  are  going  to 
be  corrupted  and  bought  as  a  matter  of 
course,  and  assume  that  it  is  our  duty  to 
restrict  Legislatures  upon  that  ground,  it 
seems  to  me  that  it  is  going  too  far.  I  am 
willing  to  leave  the  details  of  this  matter  witb^ 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION   DEBATES— Thubsdat,  July  30. 


189 


the  Legislature,  and  also  with  the  commis- 
sioners or  jurors  who  may  appraise  the  dam- 
ages. 

But  I  object  to  the  amendment  upon 
another  ground.  It  has  been  mv  fortime  to 
live  in  a  section  of  country  where  I  have  had 
an  opportunity  to  contrast  the  prosperity  of 
those  States  which  have  pmrsued  a  liberal 
course  towards  Railroad  companies,  and  those 
which  have  pursued  an  opposite  policy.  The 
State  of  New  Hampshire  has  lost  milUons  of 
dollars  in  consequence  of  the  policy  she  has 
pursued  towards  Railroad  corporations  while 
on  the  contrary  Massachusetts,  an  adjoining 
State,  has  gained  millions  of  dollars  by  an 
opposite  policy.  And  I  undertake  to  say  that 
there  is  not  a  State  in  the  Union  which  has 
adopted  a  more  liberal  policy  in  that  respect 
than  Massachusetts,  and  there  is  not  a  State 
in  the  Union  which  has  derived  more  benefit 
from  Railroads,  nor  a  State  which  is  more 
properous  than  Massachusetts.  How  was  it 
in  New  Hampshire  ?  The  same  arguments 
were  urged  in  her  Legislature,  as  have  been 
m-ged  here  to-day,  by  the  gentleman  from 
"Winona.  Farmers  and  agriculturalists  were 
to  be  ruined,  and  they  placed  every  restric- 
tion upon  Railroads.  Those  arguments  for  a 
time  prevailed,  and  they  refused  to  pursue 
any  thing  hke  a  liberal  course.  The  conse- 
quence was  that  roads  were  built  in  a  western 
direction  before  they  were  in  that  State,  and 
the  farmers  soon  found  that  they  were  unable 
to  compete  with  western  agricultiire,  be- 
cause the  expense  of  transportation  was  so 
great.  They  were,  at  length,  compelled  to 
abandon  their  illiberal  policy  and  retrace  their 
steps,  and  that  State  is  now  begining  to  re- 
cover from  the  injury  which  she  had  inflicted 
upon  herself. 

Now,  Sir,  I  am  not  interested  myself  in  any 
Railroad  corporation,  but,  I  hve  in  a  county 
in  which  Raihoads  are  desirable,  and  we  hoge 
a  road  will  be  built  through  that  county  in  a 
certain  direction,  and  I  do  not  want  anything 
put  into  this  Constitution  which  will  prevent 
the  building  of  such  a  road.  I  prefer  to 
leave  this  matter  with  the  Legislature  so  that 
they  can  give  us  sufficient  encouragement. 
This  section  gives  us  all  the  protection  we 
want. 

The  gentleman  also  refers  us  to  the  pro- 
yisions  of  the  special  session  of  the  Legisla- 


ture, which  assembled  to  take  into  considera- 
tion the  disposition  of  the  land  grants  which 
were  made  by  Congress,  and  from  his  remarks 
I  judge  he  would  have  us  infer  that  whatever 
he  would  have  us  put  in  here,  would  afifect 
the  persons  whose  lands  were  taken  for  those 
roads.  That  is  not  the  case.  It  will  have 
no  effect  upon  those  coi-porations,  but  its 
effect  will  be  confined  to  corporations  hereaf- 
ter formed  to  build  roads,  without  the  aid  of 
government.  Such  a  provision  would  pre- 
vent the  building  of  roads  which  have  not  the 
benefit  of  the  government  grants  of  land,  and 
that  is  an  additional  reason  why  I  do  not 
want  it  inserted  here. 

Mr.  McKUNE  demanded  the  yeas  and  nays 
upon  the  amendment  to  the  amendment. 

The  yeas  and  nays  were  refused. 

The  question  was  then  taken  on  the  amend- 
ment to  the  amendment,  and  was  not  agreed  to. 

Mr.  WILSON.  I  wish  simply  to  say,  that 
I  do  not,  in  the  least  believe,  that  gentlemen 
who  were  interested  in  Railroads,  intend  to 
be  influenced  by  that  interest,  but  I  do  know 
that  our  interests  warp  us.  As  to  my  own 
interest,  I  may  say  that  I  have  none,  and  if 
I  could  have  any,  that  interest  would  be  m, 
favor  of  the  corporations. 

Mr.  SECOMBE  called  for  the  yeas  and 
nays  upon  the  amendment. 

The  yeas  and  nays  were  ordered,  and  the 
question  being  put,  it  was  decided  in  the  neg- 
ative, yeas  twenty-two  and  nays  thirty-two 
as  follows : 

Yea». — ^Messrs.  Anderson,  Baldwin,  Barthol<K 
mew,  Cleghorn,  Coe,  Coombs,  Davis,  Duley, 
Eschlie,  Folsom,  Gerrisbi,  Harding,  King,  Kemp, 
Mantor,  McKune,  Messer,  Peckham,  Rdbbins, 
Walker,  Wilson,  and  Sheldon.— 22. 

Aay«. — Messrs.  Aldrich,  Aver,  Balcombe,  Bates, 
Billings,  Bolles,  Butler,  Colburn,  Coggswell,  Gal- 
braith.  Hall,  Hayden,  Hudson,  Hanson,  Holley, 
Ljle.  Lowe,  McCann,  McCluie,  Morgan,  Murphy, 
Xorth,  Phelps,  Perkins,  Putnam,  Russell,  Stan- 
nard,  Secombe,  Smith,  Thompson,  Vaughn,  and 
Watson.— 32. 

So  the  amendment  was  not  agreed  to. 

Mr.  BOLLES.  I  offer  the  following  addi- 
tional section : 

"  Sec.  — .  Liberal  laws  regulating  capital  pun- 
ishment, should  be  enacted,  but  no  law  prohibit- 
ing such  punishment  shall  be  passed." 

I  have  scarcely  any  expectation  that  this 
amendment  will  be  adopted,  yet  I  feel  that  I 
should  not  be  doing  justice  to  myself^  or  to 


190 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Thursday,  July  30. 


the  people  of  the  State  of  Minnesota,  without 
having  that  question  discussed  and  acted 
upon  in  this  Convention.  I  know  that  in  off- 
ering the  amendment  I  go  against  the  senti- 
ment of  a  very  large  portion  of  the  people  of 
this  community,  as  well  "as  of  others.  Yet 
notwithstanding  that,  I  know  that  I  act  in  ac- 
cordance with  the  judgment  and  sound  rea- 
soning of  another  respectable  portion  of  com- 
munity, not  only  in  this  Territory,  but  in 
other  States.  I  know,  sir,  that  the  abolish- 
ing of  capital  punishment  has  proved  delete- 
rious in  the  localities  in  which  it  has  been 
tried,  and  I  know,  also,  that  States  which 
have  made  the  experiment,  have  been  anx- 
ious to  restore  capital  punishment.  Under- 
standing these  facts  as  I  do,  I  submit  the 
amendment,  and  I  submit  it  in  the  proper 
place — the  Bill  of  Bights.  It  is  the  right  of 
the  State  of  Minnesota  to  throw  around  its 
citizens  just  and  wholesome  restraints,  and 
there  is  nothing  which  seems  to  me  so  whole- 
some, and  so  sure  of  producing  a  good  effect, 
as  to  have  it  understood  distinctly,  by  all  in- 
dividuals, that  he  who  commits  murder  must 
suffer  the  penalty  of  death.  No  man  com- 
mits crime,  but,  in  the  end  hopes  to  escape 
punishment.  Men  do  not  go  to  work  delib- 
erately and  commit  crime,  with  the  expecta- 
tion of  being  brought  to  justice.  The  man 
who  steals  a  horse  and  is  sent  to  State  prison, 
hopes  to  escape,  if  the  time  is  long,  and  he 
can  make  anything  by  it.  A  man  who  com- 
mits murder,  and  under  an  imprisonment  act, 
goes  to  State  prison,  suffers  aU  the  punish- 
ment which  is  inflicted  on  him.  Men  may 
say  that  he  goes  there  for  life.  That  may  be, 
but  it  only  puts  him  upon  an  exact  equality 
with  the  man  who  steals  a  horse,  lie  too 
hopes  to  escape.  I  have  known  instances 
where  such  criminals  have  escaped,  and  are 
now  at  large,  and  at  liberty  to  commit  the 
same  crime  again.  But  I  will  not  pursue  this 
train  of  argument  but  leave  the  matter  witli 
the  Convention. 

Mr.  MANTOR.  I  offer  the  following  sub- 
stitute for  the  amendment : 

Sec.  — .  The  taking  of  life,  either  by  hanging 
or  otherwise,  shall  never  be  instituted  as  a  mode  of 
punishment  for  crime  in  this  State. 

In  offering  that  substitute  I  am  not  un- 
mindful of  the  variety  of  opinions  which 
exist  in  our  land  with  regard  to  this  one 


question.  It  is  a  question  which  has  been 
universally  discussed  in  private  and  public, 
and  by  all  classes,  and  by  all  parties.  I  am 
opposed  to  the  amendment  offered  by  my 
friend  from  Rice  county,  because  I  am  op- 
posed to  capital  punishment,  and  I  can  see 
nothing  in  reason  or  in  right  which  should 
induce  me  to  support  that  amendment.  I 
can  see  nothing  in  it  of  a  moral  bearing  upon 
community,  which  should  induce  me  to  give 
it  my  support,  while  I  see  many  good  reasons 
why  I  should  not  support  it.  I  am  convinced 
that  more  than  nine-tenths  of  all  the  capital 
crimes  which  have  been  committed,  the  evi- 
dence of  which  now  stands  upon  the  records 
of  our  country,  have  been  committed  in 
moments  of  indiscretion,  or  in  times  of  high 
excitement,  and  I  am  inclined  to  extend  a 
liberal  charity  [to  a  person'  who  commits  a 
crime  under  a  sort  of  monomania,  as  it  were. 
I  am  inclined  to  the  belief,  in  looking  over  the 
records  of  the  past,  and  contrasting  them  with 
the  present,  that  there  are  less  crimes  committ- 
ed now  in  proportion  to  the  number  of  inhabi- 
tants, than  there  were  fifty  years  ago.  If 
we  look  for  a  moment  back  into  the  dark  ages 
of  the  world,  we  find  that  the  death  penalty 
induced,  in  the  community,  a  bad  state  of 
morals.  And  how  was  it  brought  about? 
Every  man  who  has  read  the  history  of  the 
past,  knows  that  every  man  who  committed 
a  capital  offence,  was  hung,  not  as  criminals 
are  hung  now,  but  upon  the  gibbit,  and  the 
dangling  bones  of  men  have  been  seen  to 
hang  swinging  in  the  air  for  weeks  and 
months.  Now  I  ask  you,  what  was  the  state 
of  morals  at  that  time  ?  I  ask  any  gentle- 
man if  it  was  anything  like  what  it  is  now  ? 
Like  causes  produce  like  effects,  and  if  the 
death  penalty  is  carried  out,  instead  of  pro- 
ducing a  good  state  of  morals,  it  will  blunt 
the  moral  faculties  of  man.  I  said,  the  bones 
<i£  criminals  were  seen  dangling  in  the  air  for 
months,  and  it  produced  a  very  bad  state  of 
society,  and  it  became  necessary  that  some 
other  mode  of  punishment  should  be  inflicted ; 
and  finally  the  simple  mode  of  hanging  men 
was  adopted.  And  what  is  the  effect  of  the 
death  penalty,  even  now?  The  records  of 
every  State  produces  evidence  of  this  fact, 
that  even  under  the  very  gallows,  numerou.4 
murders  have  been  committed;  and  conse- 
quently it  is  a  bad  argument  for  us  that  the 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Thcbsdat,  Jclt  30. 


191 


death  penalty  should  be  inflicted  for  the  pur- 
pose of  creating  a  good  state  of  morals  in 
society.  On  the  contrary,  it  has  the  effect  of 
hardening  men  in  crime.  I  would,  then,  like 
to  see  capital  punishment  stricken  from  our 
statute  books,  and  a  law  passed  that  would 
give  the  culprit,  who  in  a  moment  of  excite- 
ment, should  take  the  life  of  one  in  my 
family,  time  meet  for  repentance. 

Mr.  MURPHY,  I  move  the  previous 
question. 

Mr.  ROBBINS.     I  second  it. 
Mr.   BILLINGS.     I  wish  to  suggest  an 
amendment,  and  I  hope  the  gentleman  will 
withdraw  his  call. 

Mr.  MURPHY.     I  withdraw  it. 
Mr.  BOBBINS.     I  rise  to  a  point  of  order. 
The  gentleman  cannot  withdraw  his  demand 
for  the  previous  question. 

Mr.  BILLINGS.  I  wish  to  offer  an  amend- 
ment for  the  consideration  of  the  gentleman 
from  Rice  county,  and  I  should  be  glad  to 
have  him  accept  it. 

The  PRESIDENT.  It  is  not  in  order, 
unless  the  gentleman  who  made  the  call  for 
the  previous  question,  and  the  gentleman  who 
seconded  it,  consent. 

Mr.  ROBBINS.  I  insist  upon  the  previous 
question. 

The  previous  question  was  seconded,  and 
the  main  question  was  ordered  to  be  put. 

Mr.  MAN  TOR.  demanded  the  yeas  and 
nays  upon  the  substitute  for  the  section. 

The  yeas  and  nays  were  ordered,  and  the 
question  being  put,  it  was  decided  in  the 
negative;  yeas  nine,  nays  forty -foiu:,  as 
follows : 

Teas — ilessrs.Aldrich,  Bartholomew,  Hall, King, 
Ljie,  Mantor,  North,  Putnam,  and  Russell. — 9. 

-Vay«. — Messrs.  Anderson,  Ayer,  Balcombe,  Bald- 
win, Bates,  Billings,  Bolles,  Butler,  Clegham, 
Colbum,  Coggswell,  Coe,  Coombs,  Duley,  Esch- 
lie,  Folsom,  (Jalbraith,  Gerrish,  Hajden,  Hard- 
ing, Hudson,  Hanson,  Hollej,  Kemp,  Lowe,  Mc- 
Cann,  McKune,  McClure,  Messer,  Morgan,  Murphy, 
Phelps,  Perkins,  Peckham,  Bobbins,  Stannard,  Se- 
combe.  Smith,  Thompson,  Vaughn,  Walker,  Wat- 
son, Wilson  and  Sheldon. — 44. 

The  question  recurring  upon  the  section 
offered  by  the  gentleman  fix)m  Rice  county, 
(Mr.  BoLLEs)  it  was  put,  and  the  section  was 
rejected. 

Mr.  CLEGHORN.  I  move  that  section 
twenty-four  in  reference  to  dueling,  be  stricken 
6ut. 


Mr.  SECOMBE.  Upon  that  motion,  I 
move  the  previous  question. 

The  previous  question  was  seconded,  and 
the  main  question  ordered  to  be  put. 

Mr.  NORTH  demanded  the  yeas  and  nays 
upon  the  motion  to  strike  out 

The  yeas  and  nays  were  ordered,  and  the 
question  being  put,  it  was  decided  in  the  neg- 
ative ;  yeas  twenty-three,  nays  thirty-two,  as 
follows : 

Tea* — Messrs.  Aldrich,  Balcombe,  Bates,  Cleg- 
horn,  Coggswell,  Duley,  Eschlie,  Galbraith,  Hall, 
Hanson,  Kemp,  Lowe,  McKune,  Morgan,  Mills, 
Murphy,  Perkins,  Bobbins,  Russell,  Stannard, 
Walker,  Watson  and  Wilson— .23. 

JVay« — Messrs.  Anderson,  Ayer,  Baldwin,  Bar- 
tholomew, Billings,  Bolles,  Butler,  Colburn,  Coe, 
Coombs,  Davis,  Folsom,  Gerrish,  Hayden,  Hard, 
ing,  Hudson,  HoUey,  King,  Lyle,  Mantor,  McCann, 
McClure,  Messer,  Xorth,  Phelps,  Putnam,  Peck, 
ham,  Secombe,  Smith,  Thompson,  Taughn,  and 
Sheldon.— 32. 

Fending  the  call  of  the  roll — 
Mr.  GALBRAITH  said :  In  regard  to  this 
matter  I  think  there  is  a  misunderstanding. 
There  should  a  be  a  provision  similar  to  this 
somewhere  in  the  Constitution,  but  I  do  not 
think  this  the  proper  place  for  it,  and  for  that 
reason  I  vote  in  the  affirmative. 

Mr.  PERKINS.  I  also  wish  to  say  that 
while  I  am  opposed  to  this  in  this  Bill  of 
Rights,  I  do  not  wish  it  understood  that  I  am 
opposed  to  it  in  the  Constitution.  Therefore 
I  vote  "  aye." 

Mr.  RUSSELL.  I  believe  that  the  provis- 
ion should  be  in  the  Constitution,  but  I  think 
it  is  in  the  wrong  place  here. 

The  PRESIDENT  then  announced  the  re- 
sult of  the  vote,  as  above  recorded. 

Mr.  HAYDEN.  I  now  more  the  previous 
question  upon  the  adoption  of  the  Pream"ble 
and  Bill  of  Rights. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  I  hope  the  motion  wiU 
not  prevail.  I  would  suggest  whether  it 
would  not  be  best  not  to  act  finally  upon  this 
matter  until  it  has  passed  through  the  hands 
of  the  committee  upon  Arrangement  and 
Phraseology  for  Engrossment.  Should  we 
adopt  these  articles  finally  one  by  one,  or  re- 
fer them  all  to  that  committee  and  when  they 
report  them  all  back,  take  the  question  on 
theni  aH  at  the  same  time  ?  In  tliat  way  we 
shall  avoid  the  possibility  of  one  conflicting 
with  the  other. 
The  PRESIDENT.    Discussion  is  not  is 


192 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Thuesday,  July  80. 


order  upon  a  demand  for  the  previous  ques- 
tion. 

Mr.  HARDING.     I  withdraw  the  demand. 

Mr.  NORTH.  I  move  that  the  report  as 
amended  be  re-committed  to  the  committee 
for  the  purpose  of  having  it  engrossed. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  would  enquire  whether, 
When  it  is  reported  back  from  that  committee 
it  would  not  be  open  to  amendment  ? 

The  PRESIDENT.  The  Chair  is  of  opin- 
ion that  further  amendment  would  not  be  in 
order. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  If  that  is  so  I  have  no 
objection  to  its  re-commitment. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  We  had  better  not  be 
in  too  much  haste.  Why  have  this  report 
engrossed  now,  so  as  to  preclude  all  further 
amendment  ?  We  may  be  compelled,  when 
all  the  reports  are  adopted,  to  go  to  work  and 
fit  the  different  parts  together,  and  in  doing 
so,  it  may  be  necessary  to  modify  some  of 
them.  There  may  be  surplusage  in  this  one 
or  that,  and  it  is  impossible  to  tell  now  how 
the  next  one  may  fit  to  it.  I  think  the  whole 
of  them  should  be  taken  into  view  at  one 
time.  Are  gentlemen  willing  to  have  the  re- 
port engrossed  now,  and  all  opportunity  for 
amendment  cut  off?  We  have  had  amend- 
ment upon  amendment  made  to  this  report, 
and  I  ask  any  gentleman  if  he  c  an  tell  now 
exactly  how  the  matter  stands  ?  Should  the 
matter  not  be  left  open  so  that  it  can  be  cor- 
tected  and  compared  with  the  balance  of  the 
Constitution  ? 

Mr.  HAYDEN.  I  wish  to  know  if  the 
gentleman  means  to  be  understood  to  say  that 
the  best  course  for  us  would  be  not  to  adopt 
finally  any  of  these  reports,  until  they  are  all 
placed  before  us? 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.    I  do. 

Mr.  HAYDEN.  It  seems  to  me  that  this 
teport  is  the  foundation  of  our  work,  and  that 
all  subsequent  parts  of  the  Constitution  s-hould 
be  in  subjection  to  this,  and  made  to  corres- 
pond with  it.  It  seems  to  me  that  the  report 
should  be  sent  to  the  committee  for  engross- 
ment 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  I  wish  not  to  urge 
this  matter  upon  gentlemen,  but  I  think  there 
ought  to  be  calm  consideration  before  wetake 
that  course.  I  would  say  now,  that  I  think 
there  is  in  this  Bill  of  Rights,  that  which  is 
unconBtitutional  in  itself,  uid  it  would  not 


look  well  for  us  to  send  out  to  the  people  ail 
unconstitutional  Constitution ;  and  if  we  en- 
gross the  report  now  we  cannot  amend  it  in 
that  respect.  In  the  twenty-fourth  section 
there  is  a  clause  which  is  palpably  unconstu- 
tional.  "  Any  citizen  of  this  State  who  shall, 
"  aflet  the  adoption  of  this  Constitution,  fight 
"  a  duel  with  deadly  weapons,  or  send  or  ac- 
"  cept  a  challenge  to  fight  a  duel  with  deadly 
"  weapons  either  within  this  State  or  out  ofit^ 
"  &c.,  shall  be  deprived  of  holding  any  ofiBce 
"  of  profit  or  trust  under  the  State."  NoWj 
sir,  those  words,  "  or  out  of  it"  are  vtrong.  I 
refer  to  the  case  of  Mr.  Bissell  of  Illinois,  who 
now  holds  the  office  of  Governor  by  virtue  of 
the  unconstitutionality  of  a  similar  clause  in 
the  Constitution  of  that  State.  We  have  no 
jurisdiction  over  the  punishrtient  of  crimes 
committed  out  of  this  State.  According  to 
the  language  of  the  Illinois  Constitution,  Gov- 
ernor Bissell  was  ineligible  to  oflBce,  and  dire 
threats  were  made  against  him  by  his  oppo- 
nents if  he  dare  qualify  for  the  oflBce.  But 
he  did  take  the  oath  of  office,  and  defied  the 
Constitution,  upon  the  very  gi'ound  of  the  un- 
constitutional character  of  that  article.  Now 
there  is  no  use  of  our  going  beyond  what  can 
be  carried  out.  We  may  show  our  aversion 
to  duelling,  but  do  not  let  us  show  our  aver- 
sion to  the  Constitution  of  the  United  States 
at  the  same  time. 

Mr.  WATSON.  The  amendment  which 
I  offered  to  that  section  was  intended  to  ob- 
viate that  very  difficulty,  and  I  would  like  to 
see  it  made  right  now. 

The  PRESIDENT.  The  motion  to  re-com- 
mit takes  precedence  of  a  motion  to  amend. 

Mr.  NORTH.  The  provision  of  the  Illi- 
nois Constitution  is  different  from  ours,  and 
it  is  easy  to  see  that  a  decision  might  be  had 
under  it,  which  is  not  applicable  to  us.  The 
provision  in  the  Illinois  Constitution  ia  as 
follows : 

"Any  person  who  shall,  after  the  adoption  of 
this  Constitution,  fight  a  duel,  or  send  or  accept  a 
a  challenge  for  that  purpose,  or  be  aider  or  abettor 
in  fighting  a  duel,  shall  be  deprived  of  holding  any 
office  of  honor  or  profit  in  this  State,  and  shall  bo 
punished  otherwise  in  such  manner  as  is  or  may 
be  prescribe  by  law." 

That  was  construed  to  apply  only  to  the 
State  of  Illinois.  But  our  provision  is  more 
broad  in  its  application,  and  says  whether  hef 
fight  a  duel  either  in  this  State  "  or  out  of  it." 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Thuesday,  Jclt  80. 


193 


Mr.  ALDRICH.  I  hope  the  Convention 
will  be  in  favor  of  striking  out  the  whole  sec- 
tion, but  if  they  determine  not  to  do  so,  yet 
I  hop#  they  will  not  consent  to  send  it  out  to 
the  people  in  its  present  shape.  To  show  the 
unconstitutionality  of  that  provision  let  me 
read  a  part  of  section  eight  of  this  same  report : 

"And  no  person  for  the  same  offence  shall  be 
put  twice  in  jeopardy  of  punishment,  &c." 

Now  suppose  a  citizen  of  Minnesota  goes 
across  into  Wisconsin  and  fights  a  duel  there, 
he  becomes  amenable  to  the  laws  of  "Wiscon- 
sin, and  when  he  comes  back  he  is  to  be  pun- 
ished again. 

Mr.  HAYDEN.  I  do  not  profess  to  be  a 
lawyer,  but  I  take  a  different  view  of  this 
matter  from  what  many  gentlemen  take.  It 
has  reference  to  fighting  duels  out  of  the 
State,  and  declares  that  no  one  fighting  a  duel, 
out  or  in  the  State,  shall  be  eligible  to  office 
within  this  State.  Suppose  a  man  lives  in 
Wisconsin  and  there  fights  a  duel,  and  after- 
wards becomes  a  resident  and  citizen  of  this 
State,  this  clause  would  make  such  person 
ineligible  to  office  in  this  State.  I  think  that 
should  be  so. 

Mr.  SECOilBE.  I  do  not  think  that  upon 
either  ground  mentioned  by  the  gentleman 
from  Scott  County  (Mr.  GALBBAriH)  or  the 
gentleman  from  Hennepin  County  (Mr.  Al- 
drich)  that  the  section  is  unconstitutional. 
As  has  been  observed  by  the  gentleman  from 
Rice  County  (Mr.  North)  the  decision,  given 
in  the  Illinois  case,  was  upon  a  very  different 
foundation  from  the  section  under  considera- 
tion here.  It  was  there  decided,  as  it  was 
made  a  crime  to  be  punished  not  only  other- 
wise, but  to  be  punished  in  this  way,  that  it 
could  only  apply  to  the  State  of  Illinois,  con- 
sequently any  act  committed  out  of  the 
State  would  not  come  within  the  provisions 
of  the  Illinois  Constitution.  The  gentleman 
from  Hennepin  County  contends  that  it  would 
subject  a  man  to  punishment  twice  for  the 
same  offence.  I  differ  with  the  gentleman. 
I  do  not  believe  that  it  is  a  pimishment,  which 
■  is  proposed  in  this  section — no  more  a  pun- 
ishment than  it  is  a  punishment  to  say  that 
certain  persons,  as  we  have  said  in  the  report 
of  the  Committee  on  the  Executive  Depart- 
ment, shall  not  hold  the  office  of  Governor, 
unless  they  be  citizens  of  the  United  States. 

Mr.  ALDRICH.  Is  it  not  probable  that 
25 


the  Legislatm'e  of  the  State  will  hereafter 
pass  laws  punisliing  dueling  ? 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  would  inform  the  gen- 
tleman fi-om  Hennepin  County  that  I  hope 
they  will.  K  they  do,  then  a  person  com- 
mitting the  crime  of  dueling  will  be  punished 
once  and  or^y  once,  for  it  is  no  more  a  pun- 
ishment, to  say  that  a  man  who  fights  a  duel 
shall  not  hold  an  office,  than  it  is  a  punish- 
ment to  say  that  a  man,  unless  he  is  a  citizen 
of  the  United  States,  shall  not  hold  an  office* 
We  have  said  that  no  man  shall  be  Governor 
of  this  State  unless  he  be  a  citizen  of  the 
United  States.  Now  we  have  a  plenty  of 
men  in  this  Territory  who  will  be  punished 
by  that  provision,  if  that  kind  of  legislation 
is  to  be  construed  as  punishment.  But  it 
seems  to  me  that  it  is  not  a  punishment  in 
any  way  or  manner.  It  is  merely  giving  to 
certain  citizens  privileges  which  we  do  not 
give  to  all  citizens.  It  is  a  deprivation,  to  be 
sure,  of  the  exercise  of  certain  privileges. 

Mr.  CLEGHORN  (interrupting).  I  rise  to 
a  point  of  order.  As  there  is  no  question  be- 
fore iixQ  Convention,  the  gentleman  is  out  of 
order. 

The  PRESIDENT.  The  motion  before  the 
Convention  is  a  motion  to  commit. 

Mr.  NORTH.     I  withdraw  the  motion. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  was  discussing  that 
point,  and  showing  argimaents  why  we  should 
not  commit.  The  only  argument  urged  in 
favor  of  committal  was  that  we  have  here  a 
provision  which  is  unconstitutional. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.     I  renew  the  motion. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  desire  to  submit  a  mo^ 
tion  for  reconsideration,  if  the  gentleman  will 
withdraw  his  motion. 

Mr.  COGGS^VELL.  I  am  inclined  to  ac- 
commodate the  gentleman,  but  I  am  still  fur- 
ther inclined  to  accommodate  the  gentleman 
from  St.  Anthony  (Mr.  Secojibe)  and  there- 
fore I  decline  to  withdraw  my  motion. 

Mr.  NORTH.  My  reason  for  withdraw- 
ing the  motion  was  that  some  felt  that  some 
other  motion  should  be  considered  in  regard 
to  this  report.  I  did  not  desire  to  take  any 
advantage,  or  cut  off  any  gentleman  from 
the  privilege  of  speaking. 

Mr.  GxlLBRAITH.  The  only  thing  I  wish 
is,  that  all  parts  of  this  report  sliall  be  con- 
sistent, and  I  think  that  the  engrossment  of 
it  will  cut  off  necessary  corrections. 


194 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Thl-bsdat,  July  30. 


The  PRESIDENT.  The  Chair  would  sug- 
gest that  there  is  a  difficulty  in  reference  to 
this  matter,  which  the  Convention  might  as 
well  overcome  now  as  at  any  other  time.  We 
have  no  engrossing  Clerk  or  engrossing  com- 
mittee, which  deliberative  bodies  of  this  kind 
usually  have.  The  Chair  would  .suggest  the 
propriety  of  re-committing  this  report  to  the 
committee  from  which  it  came,  for  engross- 
ment. If  it  is  referred  to  that  committee  for 
engrossment,  they  will  retain  it,  until  aU  the 
reports  have  been  considered,  and  then  when 
they  are  reported  back,  the  Convention  can 
go  into  committee  of  the  Whole  on  all  the 
reports,  and  then  report  them  back  for  final 
action  by  the  Convention,  and  then  send  them 
to  the  committee  on  Arrangement  and  Phra- 
seology, 

Mr.  HAYDEN.  Do  I  understand  that  a 
reference  of  it  to  the  Standing  committee  for 
Engrossment,  brings  it  back  with  the  privilege 
of  amendment  again  ? 

The  PRESIDENT.  Th»  re-commitment  of 
a  bill,  unless  it  be  for  engrossment  only,  will 
put  it  in  a  situation  which  will  require  its  con- 
sideration again  by  the  committee  of  the 
Whole. 

Mr.  HAYDEN.  I  desire  that  it  shall  be 
re-committed  to  that  committe*  for  engross- 
ment simply. 

Mr.  PERKINS.  The  sooner  tliis  Bill  of 
Rights  is  placed  beyond  the  reach  of  amend- 
ment, the  better  it  will  be,  I  think. 

The  PRESIDENT.  The  question  will  be 
upon  re-committing  the  bill  to  the  committee 
for  engrossment. 

Mr.  COGSWELL,  I  have  sat  by  quietly 
this  morning  and  listened  to  the  arguments 
which  have  been  adduced  both  for  and  against 
certain  sections  in  the  Bill  of  Rights  which 
the  committee  saw  fit  to  report,  and  some  of 
them  have  been  pretty  good,  in  my  judgment, 
and  some  not  so  good.  At  the  time  we  made 
this  report,  we  did  not  con^der  it  perfect  by 
any  means.  We  concluded  to  arrange  it  as 
well  as  we  could,  report  it  to  the  Convention, 
and  let  them  make  such  amendments  as  they 
thought  proper.  If  I  have  kept  track  of  the 
amendments  which  have  been  made,  some  of 
them  arc  pretty  good,  and  some  of  them  are 
■not  as  good  as  the  original. 

In  regard  to  thi.s  particular  twenty-fourth 
ficction,  as  an  individual  member  of  the  Con- 


vention, I  am  in  favor  of  striking  it  out  alto- 
gether, for  the  reason  that  if  any  of  our  peo- 
ple are  inclined  to  fight,  I  do  not  wish  to 
place  anything  in  their  way.  It  is  som(ftimcs 
absolutely  and  indispensably  necessary  that 
men  should  fight.  I  do  not  know  that  I  de- 
sire that  any  particular  mode  of  fighting  shall 
be  prescribed  or  proscribed  by  this  Conven- 
tion. If  a  man  wants  to  fight  with  pistols  I 
have  no  objection;  or  if  he  wants  to  use  the 
instruments  alone  which  the  Almighty  has 
given  him,  I  have  no  objection  to  that  either. 
But  if  tills  provision  is  to  be  inserted  in  the 
Constitution  at  all,  I  am  in  favor  of  its  re- 
maining about  as  it  is. 

The  PRESIDENT  (interrupting).  The  ques- 
tion is  upon  ordering  the  report  to  be  engi'oss- 
ed  for  a  third  reading. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  That  is  very  true, 
but  from  the  remarks  which  have  been  made, 
and  the  latitude  of  remarks  which  have  been 
allowed,  I  think  it  not  improper  that  I  should 
say  a  few  words  in  regard  to  the  constitution- 
ality of  the  section  immediately  in  discus- 
sion. But  if  there  is  any  objection,  I  will 
resume  my  seat,  (Cries  of  "goon"  "go 
on.") 

The  section  says,  if  "  any  citizen  of  this 
"  State  who  shall,  after  the  adoption  of  this 
"  Constitution,  fight  a  duel  with  deadly  weap- 
"  ons,  or  send  or  accept  a  challenge  to  fight  a 
"  duel  with  deadly  weapons,  either  within  this 
"  State  or  out  of  it." — Now,  it  is  that  portion  of 
the  section,  which  refers  to  duels  fought  out 
of  the  State,  to  which  objections  are  raised. 

If  the  fighting  of  a  duel  out  of  the  State  is 
proposed  to  be  punished  as  a  crime,  then  I 
have  no  doubt  but  that  it  is  unconstitutional ; 
for  it  is  a  well  settled  principle  of  the  common 
law  that  when  a  man  conmiits  a  crime  ii)  one 
State,  he  cannot  be  punishwl  fur  that  crime 
outside  of  the  limits  and  jurisdiction  of  that 
State.  But  I  do  not  understand  that  we 
propose  to  pimish  the  fighting  of  a  duel  out- 
side of  the  ^nits  of  this  State,  as  a  crime. 
We  do  not  propose  to  say  that  he  shall  pay  a 
fine  of  fifty  or  a  thousand  dollars.  We  do 
not  propose  to  say  that  he  shall  be  imprisoned 
in  the  county  jail  Ht  -ix  ihoiuIh,  ov  iiicarcor- 
ated  within  tlie  walls  of  a  puniLcuLiary  lor  any 
length  of  time.  We  simply  say  that  if  lie 
commits  that  particular  crime  he  shall  not  bo 
Pound  Master,  Register  of  Deeds,  yecretary 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— THmsDAr,  Jcly  30. 


195 


of  State,  Lieufcnant-Govemor,  or  Govemor. 
.  It  seems  to  me  that  when  we  saj  he  shall 
hold  no  office  of  profit  or  trust  in  the  State, 
we  do  not  undertake  to  punish  the  act  as  a 
criminal  offence.  If  we  look  at  the  Constitu- 
tion of  the  State  of  Texas,  we  find  this  same 
provision,  letter  for  letter,  and  the  Supreme 
Court  of  that  State  has  decided  that  that  was 
not  unconstitutional.  That  is  the  only  State, 
within  my  recollection,  in  which  that  question 
has  been  raised  and  decided.  They  make  a 
distinction  between  the  punishment  of  a  crime, 
and  a  mere  disqualification  {ov  holding  any 
office  of  profit  and  trust  We  say  in  our 
Constitution,  that  no  person  shall  hold  the 
office  of  Governor  unless  he  be  a  citizen  of 
the  United  States,  and  imless  he  has  resided 
within  the  limits  of  this  State  a  certain  length 
of  time,  «S;c.  Now  there  are  many  men  who 
would  be  disqualified  fi-om  holding  that  office 
simply  because  they  have  not  resided  within 
the  State  that  length  ot  time,  and  because 
they  are  not  citizens  of  the  United  States. 
"We  do  not  regard  that  provision  as  a  punish- 
ment for  the  crime  of  not  being  a  citizen  of 
the  United  States,  or  of  not  residing  here  a  cer- 
tain length  of  time.  Now  the  provision  under 
consideration  does  nothing  more  than  that. 
It  simply  says  he  shall  not  hold  any  office  of 
profit  or  trust  under  the  State,  and  we  do  not 
inffict  upon  the  individual  any  criminal  pun- 
ishment. If  we  do  not,  as  a  matter  of  course 
it  is  not  unconstitutional. 

Mr.  MILLS.  As  one  of  the  minority  upon 
this  question,  I  hope  it  will  be  recommitted 
to  the  committee,  so  that  we  may  have  some 
chance  of  still  further  amending  it.  It  se^us 
to  me  that  we  have  gone  too  fiir,  and  that  in 
the  Bill  of  Rights  we  should  declare  nothing 
but  general  fundamental  principles.  Instead 
of  declaring  here  that  dueling  is  an  evil  and 
shall  never  be  allowed  in  this  State,  we  go  on 
and  prescribe  how  it  shall  be  punished.  If 
we  notice  dueling  in  the  Constitution,  why 
should  not  we  notice  gambling,  or  murder,  or 
any  other  crime?  If  we  notice  all  those 
subjects  we  shall  sit  here  six  ^or  eight  months. 
I  do  not  imderstand  that  ^>came  here  to 
make  laws  for  the  people ;  yut  to  prepare  a 
system  by  which  they  may  make  laws  them- 
selves through  the  Legislature. 

Mr.  PERKINS.     My  opinion  is  that  we 
shall  be  in  the  Union  as  a  State,  and  imder  a 


Constitution  framed  in  the  other  end  of  the 
Capitol,  before  we  get  our  Constitution  framed, 
unless  we  stop  this  interminable  debate.  I 
I  see  no  prospect  of  this  Convention  adhering 
to  fundamental  (principles  in  framing  this 
Constitution.  I  hope  we  shall  go  on  and 
dispose  of  this  matter  without  finrther  delay. 

The  PRESIDENT.  If  the  Chair  puts  the 
question  to  the  Convention  in  this  way — 
"Shall  the  report  of  the  committee  on  the 
"  Bill  of  Rights  be  engrossed  for  a  third 
"  reading?" — it  will  put  it  out  of  the  power 
of  this  Convention  to  further  amend  it  If 
the  question  is  put  to  recommit  it  to  the 
standing  committee,  then,  when  they  report 
it  back  to  the  Convention,  it  will  still  be  sub- 
ject to  amendment. 

Mr.  NORTH.  I  would  inquire  what  op- 
portunity the  committee  on  Arrangement  and 
Phraseology  will  have  to  act  upon  this  sub- 
ject? When  will  it  be  their  province  to 
attend  to  that  duty  ? 

The  PRESIDENT.  After  the  various 
reports  have  been  adopted  in  detail,  they  are 
to  be  sent  to  the  committee  on  Arrang'^nient 
and  Phraseology,  and  that  committee  will 
have  no  right  to  make  any  alterations,  except 
such  as  are  actually  necessary  to  carry  out 
the  intention  of  the  sections. 

Mr.  NORTH.  If  there  were  two  similar 
articles  in  different  reports,  would  they  have 
the  right  to  strike  out  one ;  and  would  they 
have  the  right  to  take  a  provision  fix)m  one 
report  and  put  it  into  another  ? 

The  PRESIDENT.  The  Chair  thinks  they 
would  have  the  right,  with  the  final  concur- 
rence of  the  Convention. 

Mr.  NORTH.  I  am  in  favor  of  having  the 
report  recommitted,  and  I  would  like  the 
committee  to  have  the  right  to  suggest  cer- 
tain changes  in  in  it,  if  they  see  fit  to  do  so, 
and  when  it  comes  back  to  us,  I  would  like  to 
see  prompt  action  upon  it 

I  would  suggest,  also,  that  we  should  not 
talk  quite  as  much  as  we  have  done ;  that  we 
should  keep  up  more  thinking,  and  check  our 
propensity  to  amend.  I  recolle<Jl  at  one  time 
that  there  were  no  less  than  eight  or  ten 
amendments  offered  to  one  section,  all  of 
which  were  rejected  ri^t  straight  along,  and 
I  doubt  whether  any  one  can  count  the  num- 
ber of  amendments  which  have  been  offered 
to  one  single  section  of  this  report.    This 


196 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Thursday,  July  80. 


thing  consumes  time,  and,  as  has  been  sug- 
gested, unless  we  are  cautious  we  shall  pro- 
tract the  session  to  months. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  If  I  understand  any- 
thing about  an  engrossed  paper,  it  is  not  sub- 
ject to  amendment  at  all,  except  by  unani- 
mous consent.  Now  we  have  a  committee  on 
Arrangement  and  Phraseology,  and  if  I  un- 
derstand their  duties,  they  are  to  take  all  the 
parts  of  this  Constitution  and  fit  them 
together,  and  report  the  result  to  this  House, 
with  the  corrections  they  have  made — for  I 
do  not  consider  that  the  committee  have  any 
final  power  in  the  matter  at  all.  Now  would 
it  not  be  putting  the  cart  before  the  horse  to 
engross  any  of  these  papers  and  then  send 
them  to  that  committee,  and  allow  them  to 
take  out  a  whole  section  here,  and  place  it 
elsewhere,  and  strike  out  a  word  here  and  a 
word  there  ?  "Would  that  be  the  paper  then, 
which  was  ordered  to  be  engrossed  by  this 
body.  Would  it  not  be  better  to  hand  the 
reports  with  the  amendments,  to  the  com- 
mittee on  Arrangement  and  Phraseology,  as 
fast  as  we  get  through  them,  and  let  them 
compare  the  one  with  the  other,  and  then  re- 
port the  whole  thing  back  to  the  Convention 
corrected,  and  ready  for  engrossment? 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  The  thirty-seventh  rule 
ef  this  Convention  reads  as  follows : 

"  Every  article  when  read  a  third  time  and 
passed,  shall  be  referred  to  the  committee  on  Ar- 
rangement and  Phraseology." 

I  thought,  at  the  time  the  rule  was  adopted, 
that  it  was  a  bad  rule. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  In  order  that  we  may 
have  a  little  time  to  consider  this  matter,  I 
move  that  the  report  be  laid  on  the  table. 

Mr.  NORTH.  I  hope  that  motion  will  not 
prevail.  I  want  to  see  some  progress  made 
in  our  work. 

The  motion  was  not  agreed  to. 

Mr.  ALDRICII.  I  hope  no  disposition 
will  be  made  of  this  report,  until  it  is  finally 
disposed  Q^  by  this  Convention.  I  also  hope 
tliat  every  amendment  which  may  be  olTcred 
— and  I  am%illing  that  every  momhor  should 
offer  as  many  amendments  as  he  pleases — 
will  be  voted  upon  without  discussion. 

From  this  time  forth  I  shall  insist  that  the 
Chair  enforce  the  rule  that  no  member  shall 
speak  but  once  until  all  others  have  spoken 
who   desire    to  speak,    I  hope  the  gentle- 


man who  made  the  motion  that  the  report  be 
engrossed,  will  withdraw  it,  and  if  there  are 
any  further  amendments  to  be  offered,  let  us 
go  on  and  consider  them,  and  then  dispose  of 
the  report  finally.  Let  us  not  be  idling  our 
time  as  we  have  done. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  I  withdraw  the  mo- 
tion. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  want  to  have  this  mat- 
ter disposed  of.  I  want  it  either  put  beyond 
the  reach  of  amendment  or  have  the  Conven- 
tion immediately  decide  to  amend  it  further. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  Gentlemen  have  off- 
ered aU  the  amendments  they  could,  and  then 
they  rise  up  and  tell  us  we  shall  not  offer  any 
more.  I  have  not  discussed  this  matter.  I 
ask  you  if  you  are  not  getting  yourselves 
into  trouble  ?  You  put  it  upon  record  that 
you  have  ordered  this  paper  to  be  engrossed, 
and  then  it  will  come  up  again,  and  under  a 
suspension  of  the  rules  will  have  to  be 
amended  again.  I  tell  gentlemen,  who  are 
talking  about  offering  so  many  amendments, 
that  I  have  offered  no  amendment  which  I 
did  not  consider  important,  and  the  only  rea- 
son why  I  moved  to  lay  it  upon  the  table  was, 
not  that  I  wish  to  amend  it  again,  but  that  I 
desire  that  we  shall  proceed  in  a  right  man- 
ner. Every  other  report  has  to  go  through 
the  same  process  as  this,  and  the  object  of 
my  motion  was  that  we  might  have  time  for  con- 
sultation as  to  the  best  mode  of  putting  our 
Constitution  into  shape  so  that  there  should 
be  no  clashing. 

Then,  on  motion  of  Mr.  SECOMBE,  (at 
twelve  o'clock  and  fifteen  minutes)  the  Con- 
vention adjourned  until  half  past  two  o'clock. 
AFTERNOON  SESSION. 

The  Convention  met  at  half  past  two  o'clock. 

KESOLUTIONS. 

Mr.  McCLURE  offered  the  following  reso- 
lutions, which  was  read  a  first  and  second  time 
and  laid  upon  the  table  imder  the  rules: 

Whereas,  There  is  official  evidence  from  the 
production  of  the  certificate  of  election,  that  there 
is  a  majority  of  the  legally  elected  members  to 
the  ConstitutionaJ  invention  who  claimed  and 
have  been  odmi^bji  to  seats  in  this  Convention ; 
nnd,  V. 

Wheeeas,  The  members  now  holding  scats  in 
this  Convention  who  produced  j)ri7na  facie  evi- 
dence by  the  production  of  regular  certificates  of 
election  as  such  delegates,  represent  a  majority 
of  the  legal  voters  of  this  Territory,  and, 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Tat rsdat,  Jult30. 


197 


"Whereas,  There  are  some  iodUs  of  men  begLn- 
ning  to  assemble  in  a  chamber  of  this  Capitol, 
who  call  themselves  the  Constitutional  Convention, 
which  thev  have  an  undoubted  right  to  do,  on  the 
principle  that  if  a  man  desires  to  make  a  fool  of 
himself,  there  is  no  law  against  it — many  of  whom 
have  no  certificates  of  election  to  the  Convention ; 
others  who  have  certificates,  and  who  would  be 
admitted  to  seats  in  this  Convention,  upon  the 
production  of  their  certificates — who  have  not 
attended  the  meetings  of  this  Convention,  from 
reasons  best  known  to  themselves,  therefore, 

Risolved,  That  the  men  occupying  the  chamber 
at  the  other  end  of  the  Capitol,  are  there,  in  our 
opinion,  for  the  purpose  of  defeating  the  will  of 
the  people,  and  that  their  acts  will  not  be  recog- 
nized by  the  electors  of  this  Territory. 

Risohed,  further.  That  while  that  body  of  men 
in  the  Council  Chamber  are  denouncing  us  to  the 
Federal  President,  and  threatening  us  with  the 
power  of  their  masters,  that  the  above  preamble 
and  resolution,  together  with  copies  of  the  cre- 
dentials and  evidtnce  of  election  of  members  of 
this  Convention  be  laid  before  the  sovereign  peo- 
ple of  the  Territory  of  Minnesota,  to  whom  we 
appeal  for  the  ratification  of  our  action  as  a  Con- 
vention. 

Mr.  MANTOR  offered  the  foUowing  resolu- 
tion, which  was  read,  considered  and  agreed 
to,  viz : 

"SesoUed,  That  there  shall  be  a  standing  com- 
mittee on  Engrossment,  consisting  of  five  mem- 
bers to  be  appointed  by  the  President." 

The  PRESIDENT  thereupon  appointed  as 
such  committee,  Messrs.  Maxtob,  Kixg, 
Phelps,  Peckham,  and  Wixell. 

Mr.  COE  offered  the  following  resolution : 
"Resolved,  That  this  Convention  adjourn  with- 
out day  OB  Friday,  the  seventh  day  of  August 
next." 

Mr.  STANNARD.  I  think  it  will  be  im- 
proper to  pass  a  resolution  of  that  kind  imtil 
we  see  how  we  get  along  with  our  business. 
If  we  fix  that  day  we  may  have  to  adjourn 
without  completing  our  business. 

The  resolution  was  laid  over  tmder  the 
rule. 

PBEAMBLB  AXD  BILL  OE  BIGHTS. 

The  Convention,  under  the  regular  order 
of  business,  resumed  the  consideration  of  the 
report  of  the  committee  upon  the  Preamble 
and  Bill  of  Rights. 

The  PRESIDENT  stated  tlie  question  to 
be  on  the  amendment  to  the  twenty -fourth 
section,  to  strike  out  the  the  word  "  either," 
in  the  third  line,  and  the  wordsi  "  or  out  of 
"it,"  in  the  fourth  line. 


Mr.  SECOMBE  caUed  for  the  yeas  and 
.  nays,  but  they  were  refused. 

The  amendment  was  not  agreed  to. 

Mr.  MORGAN.  I  move  to  strike  out  the 
twenty-second  section,  which  is  as  foUows : 

"Xo  lottery  shall  ever  be  authorized  in  this 
State,  and  the  buying  and  selling  of  lottery  tickets 
is  hereby  prohibited." 

My  reason  for  the  motion  is  that  in  the 
report  of  the  committee  upon  the  Legislative 
Department,  there  is  this  provision : 

"The  Legislature  shall  never  authorize  any 
lottery,  nor  allow  the  sale  of  lottery  tickets." 

I  think  that  is  the  appropriate  place  for 
such  a  provision. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to. 

Mr.  MORGAN.  I  move  to  amend  section 
twenty-fourth,  relating  to  dueling,  by  striking 
out  the  , words,  "deprived  of  holding,"  and 
insert  in  lieu  thereof  the  words  "  ineligible  to." 

The  amendment  was  agreed  to. 

Mr.  MORGAN.  I  would  suggest  that  m 
the  last  line  of  the  same  section  the  words, 
"the  laws  of"  should  be  inserted  so  as  to 
make  it  read  "  of  profit  or  trust  tmder  the 
"  laws  of  this  State."   I  move  they  be  inserted. 

Mr.  NORTH.  I  would  suggest  the  words, 
"  within  this  State." 

Mr.  MORGAN.  I  accept  of  that  modi- 
fication. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  That  would  seem  to  be  a 
prohibition  of  any  one  holding  a  federal  oflBce 
in  this  State.  That  could  not  be  done  of 
course,  but  I  would  prefer  to  have  the  lan- 
guage suggested  by  the  gentieman  from  Hen- 
nepin coimty,  (Mr.  Mobgas.) 

The  question  was  taken  upon  the  amend- 
ment as  modified,  and  it  was  agreed  to. 

Mr.  KING.  I  move  to  strike  out  section 
sixteen,  and  insert  in  lieu  thereof  the  words : 

"  There  shall  be  no  imprisonment  for  debt." 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  think  that  motion  has 
once  been  made,  and  that  the  Convention 
refused  to  strike  out  the  section. 

Mr.  KING.  There  was  a  motion  made  to 
strike  out  certain  words,  but  no  amendment 
to  strike  out  the  whole  section. 

The  amendment  was  not  agreed  to. 

Mr.  COE.  I  move  to  reconsider  the  vote 
by  which  the  Convention  refused  to  strike 
out  the  section.  , 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  would  inquire  if  the 
gentleman  voted  with  the  majority. 


19S 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Thursday,  July  80. 


Mr.  COE.     I  did. 

Mr.  WATSON.  I  move  that  there  be  a 
call  of  the  Convention. 

A  call  was  refused. 

The  motion  to  reconsider  was  lost. 

Mr.  HARDING.  I  move  that  the  report 
be  ordered  to  be  engrossed  for  a  third 
reading. 

Mr.  HUDSON.  I  hope  the  gentleman  wiU 
withdraw  that  motion  and  move  to  refer  the 
report  to  the  committee  on  Arrangement  and 
Phraseology. 

The  PRESIDENT.  If  the  report  is  or- 
dered to  be  engrossed  for  a  third  reading,  it 
cannot  afterwards  be  amended,  except  by 
unanimous  consent. 

Mr.  HUDSON.  The  committee  on  Phrase- 
ology might  find  it  necessary  to  change  the 
grammatical  construction  of  some  portions  of 
it.  That  ought  to  be  done  before  it  is 
engrossed. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  would  inquire  if,  after 
engrossment,  the  rules  might  not  be  suspended 
by  a  two-third  vote,  and  amendments  be 
made. 

The  PRESIDENT.  The  rule  can  be  sus- 
pended by  a  two-third  vote,  but. the  Chair 
has  never  known  an  instance  where  a  bill, 
after  being  engrossed  for  a  third  reading,  has 
been  amended,  except  by  unanimous  consent. 

Mr.  NORTH.  I  think  it  would  be  the  bet- 
ter course  to  refer  it  to  the  committee  on 
Arrangement  and  Phraseology  before  the 
engrossment,  if  they  are  to  have  any  super- 
vision of  it  at  all. 

Mr.  HARDING.     I  withdraw  my  motion. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  I  move  to  suspend  the 
rules  so  far  as  to  permit  the  report  to  be  re- 
ferred to  the  committee  on  Arrangement  and 
Phraseology. 

Mr.  ALDRICII.  I  move  to  amend  the 
eighth  section. 

The  PRESIDENT.  The  motion  to  sus- 
pend the  rules  has  precedence. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  This  report  has  been 
amended  but  very  little,  (laughter)  and  I 
withdraw  my  motion  so  that  it  can  be 
amended.  * 

Mr,  ALDRICH.  I  move  to  amend  section 
eight  by  adding  thereto  the  following : 

"In  all* suits  at  common  law,  where  the  value 
in  controversy  shall  exceed  twenty  dollars,  the 
right  of  trial  by  jury  shall  be  preserved,  and  no 


fact  tried  by  a  jury  shall  be  otherwise  examined  in 
any  other  court  in  this  State,  than  according  to  the 
rules  of  the  common  law.  , 

Mr.  MILLS.     I  call  for  the  yeas  and  nays. 

The  yeas  and  nays  were  not  ordered. 

The  amendment  was  not  agreed  to. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  now  move  that  the 
rules  be  so  far  suspended  as  to  allow  this  re- 
port to  be  referred  to  the  committee  on 
Arrangment  and  Phraseology. 

The  rules  were  suspended,  (two-thirds 
voting  in  favor  thereof)  and  the  report  was 
accordingly  referred, 

THE   LEGISLATIVE   DEPARTMENT. 

On  motion  of  Mr.  COLBURN,  the  Con- 
vention resolved  itself  into  the  committee  of 
the  Whole,  (Mr.  Mantor  in  the  chair)  upon 
the  report  of  the  committee  on  the  Legisla- 
tive Department,  (For  report  see  proceed- 
ings of  July  twenty -third.) 

The  CHAIRMAN  proceeded  to  read  the 
article  by  sections. 

Section  one  was  passed  without  amendment. 

Sec.  2.  The  Senate  shall  consist  of  not  less 
than  twenty-four,  nor  more  than  thirty -two  mem- 
bers. The  House  of  Representatives  shall  consist 
of  not  less  than  sixty-four,  nor  more  than  one 
hundred  members, 

Mr.  HUDSON.  Mr.  Chairman  :  It  seems 
to  me  there  ought  to  be  some  definite  num- 
bers substituted  here. 

Mr.  NORTH.  I  would  say  to  the  gcntle- 
-man,  that  it  has  been  customary  in  the  Con- 
stitutions of  the  Western  States,  to  provide 
in  this  way  for  the  rapid  settlement  of  the 
unsettled  portipns  of  the  State.  We  can 
commence  with  the  smallest  number,  and  the 
Legislature  may  increase  the  number  as  occa- 
sion requires,  and  the  State  becomes  settled 
in  the  remote  localities.  The  committee 
thought  this  would  be  better  than  to  fix  a 
permanent  number. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  I  move  to  strike  out 
the  words  "  thirty-two,"  in  the  second  line, 
and  insert  "forty-two;"  also,  to  insert  the 
words,  "and  fifty,"  after  the  the  word 
"  hundred,"  in  the  third  line. 

The  motion  was  rejected. 

Mr.  MORGAN.  I  propose  to  amend,  by 
striking  out  "  sixty -four,"  in  the  third  line, 
and  inserting  "  seventy-five  ; "  and  inserting 
and  "  twenty-five,"  after  "  hundred." 

Mr,  COGGSWELL,  I  certainly  do  not  de- 
sire to  inflict  a  speech  upon  tlie  Convention, 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Thubsdat,  Jclt  80. 


199 


but  I  desire  to  make  a  few  remarks,  which, 
to  my  mind,  are  of  some  little  importance. 
In  foiTning  a  Constitution,  and  establishing  a 
State  gmernment,  to  ray  mind,  it  is  necessary 
to  have  an  eye  to  what  must  necessarily  be 
the  wants  and  wishes  of  the  people.  It  is 
well  known  that  we  cannot  establish  a  pure 
democracy — a  thing  which,  in  my  judgment, 
should  be  established,  provided  circumstan- 
ces would  admit  of  it.  But  inasmuch  as  we 
are  compelled  to  establish  a  representative 
form  of  government,  I  think  we  should  see 
that  as  far  as  possible,  every  interest  of  the 
people  should  be  heard  and  represented  in 
our  legislative  halls.  This  thing  of  cutting 
down  the  number  of  representatives,  tram- 
ples in  my  judgment,  upon  the  ideas  we  form 
of  a  pure  democracy — that  is,  the  principle, 
that  every  interest  and  every  locality  of  the 
State  should  be  heard  in  the  legislative  de- 
partment. I  am  aware  that  of  late,  it  has 
been  thought  prudent  to  cut  down  tlie  mmi- 
ber  of  representatives  in  the  popular  branch 
of  the  Legislature.  But,  in  my  judgment, 
this  is  wrong — ^very  wrong.  As  far  as  I 
have  examined  the  report  of  this  committee, 
they  have  followed,  almost  word  for  word,  the 
"Wisconsin  Constitution  in  this  particular; 
and,  to  my  knowledge,  there  is  already  con- 
siderable complaint  in  that  State  in  regard  to 
the  small  nimiber  of  representatives  in  the 
popular  branch  of  the  Legislature.  I  do  not 
undertake  to  say  but  what  one  hundred  mem- 
bers in  the  popular  branch,  would  represent 
all  the  interests  of  the  State  at  the  present 
time.  But  any  one,  knowing  anything  about 
our  Territory,  its  resources  and  people,  must 
know  very  well,  that  the  time  is  not  far  dis- 
tant when  we  shall  have  one  hundred  well 
peopled  counties  ;  and  this  cutting  down  the 
number  of  representatives  to  one  for  each 
county  is  ridiculously  and  palpably  wrong. 
In  the  New  England  States  it  is  well  known, 
that  every  litde  township  has  one  representa- 
tive in  the  popular  branch  of  the  Legislature, 
and  some  towns  have  three  or  four.  But 
here,  you  propose  to  circumscribe  the  num- 
ber, so  that,  perhaps,  in  a  few  years  it  will 
require  that  two  coimties  shall  be  represented 
by  one  member  in  the  popular  branch  of  the 
Legislature,  and  the  result  will  be  that  many 
locahties  and  interests  will  not  be  represented 
properly  and  fairly.    Now,  sir,  I  say  we  are 


here  for  the  purpose  of  reflecting  the  inter-  ' 
ests  and  wishes  of  the  people,  and  to  secure 
this  for  our  future  legislation.  It  is  my 
judgment,  therefore,  that  we  should  be  care- 
ful to  secure  a  sufficient  number  of  represen- 
tatives to  do  that  most  thoroughly.  And  if 
you  cut  down  this  number  to  seventy-five  or 
a  hundred,  in  my  opinion,  not  five  years  will 
pass  away,  before  you  will  hear  of  a  Conven- 
tion to  revise  the  State  Constitution,  for  the 
reason,  that  interests  of  importance  to  the 
people  cannot  be  heard  in  the  Legislature. 

Mr.  MOEJ&AN  (interrupting.)  The  gen- 
tleman misapprehends  my  amendment.  ~l 
proposed  to  increase  the  nmnber  of  represen- 
tatives— the  smallest  number  "to  seventy-five, 
and  the  largest  to  one  hundred  and  twenty- 
five. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  Then  I  have  misap- 
prehended the  object  of  the  amendment.  As 
I  now  understand  it,  as  fiir  as  it  goes,  it  is 
good.  I  could  wish  it  went  a  httle  further, 
so  that  we  might  have  at  least  one  hundred 
and  fifty  members  of  the  House  of  Represen- 
tatives, provided  it  should  be  the  wish  of  the 
people  to  have  that  nmnber,  I  do  not  say  it 
is  important  to  have  that  number  now ;  but, 
in  my  judgment,  the  time  is  not  far  distant, 
when  the  people  will  require  that  number,  in 
order  properly  to  represent  aU  their  vast  and 
varied  interests. 

Mr.  NORTH.  Mr.  Chairman,  I  hope  the 
amendment  will  not  prevail ;  and,  if  I  was  not 
so  much  opposed  to  making  speeches,  I  would 
make  a  speech  on  the  subject.  But  I  will 
not,  till  I  see  it  is  necessary. 

The  amendment  was  rejected. 

Sec.  3.  In  the  year  one  thousand  eight  hun- 
dred and  sixty-five,  and  every  te jth  year  thereaf- 
ter, an  enumeration  of  all  the  inhabitants  of  this 
State  shall  be  made  in  such  manner  as  shall  be 
directed  by  law ;  and  in  the  year  one  thousand 
eight  hundred  and  sixty,  and  every  tenth  year 
thereafter,  the  census  taken  by  the  authority  of 
the  government  of  the  United  States  shall  be 
adopted  by  the  Legislature  as  the  enumeration  of 
this  State ;  and  at  the  first  regular  session  of  the 
Legislature  holden  after  the  returns  of  each  cen- 
sus herein  provided  for,  are  made  the  several  dis- 
tricts for  the  election  of  senators  and  representa- 
tives shall  be  established  and  apportioned  by  law 
according  to  the  number  of  inhabitants." 

Mr.  KING.  Mr.  Chairman,  I  have  an 
amendment  to  this  section.  It  is  to  remove 
the  words  "are  made,"  from  the  ninth  line, 


200 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Thursday,  Jolt  80. 


•  and  insert  them  in  tlie  eighth  line  after  the 
word,  "returns."  As  it  reads  now  it  would 
take  a  man  of  considerable  skUl  to  make  sense 
out  of  it. 

Mr.  ROBBINS.  Mr.  Chairman,  this  diffi- 
culty is  all  in  a  typographical  error.  Put  in 
a  comma  after  the  word  "  made,"  in  the  tenth 
line,  and  it  will  be  all  right. 

Mr.  BILLINGS.  I  presume  all  this  criti- 
cising belongs  to  the  committee  on  Arrange- 
ment and  Phraseology. 

The  amendment  was  rejected. 

Sec.  6.  The  senators  shall  also  be  chosen  by 
single  districts  of  convenient  contiguous  territory, 
at  the  same  time  that  the  members  of  the  House 
of  Representatives  are  required  to  be  chosen,  and 
in  the  same  manner,  and  no  representative  district 
shall  be  divided  in  the  formation  of  a  senate  dis- 
trict. The  senate  distriots  shall  be  numbered  in 
regular  series,  and  the  senators  chosen  by  the  dis- 
tricts designated  by  odd  numbers  shall  go  out  of 
oflBce  at  the  expiration  of  the  first  year,  and  the 
senators  chosen  by  the  districts  designated  by 
even  numbers,  shall  go  out  of  office  at  the  expira- 
tion of  the  second  year ;  and  thereafter  the  scna* 
tors  shall  be  chosen  for  the  term  of  two  years,  except 
that  there  shall  be  an  entire  new  election  of  all  the 
senators  at  the  election  next  succeeding  each  new 
apportionment  provided  for  in  the  third  section  of 
this  article. 

Mr,  KIN-G.  Mr.  Chairman,  I  move  to 
strike  out  from  the  third  line,  the  words,  "  rc- 
"  quired  to  be." 

The  amendment  was  rejected. 

Mr.  CLEGHORN.  Mr.  Chamnan,  I  pro- 
pose to  amend  the  fifth  section,  by  striking 
out  all  after  the  word  "  years,"  in  the  eleventh 
line.  Section  three  requires  a  new  apportion- 
ment to  be  made  every  five  years ;  conse- 
quently, with  this  in  the  fifth  section,  the 
term  for  Senators  would  be  short  in  a  great 
many  cases. 

Mr.  NORTH.  I  wiU  state  the  reason  why 
the  section  was  put  into  that  form.  There 
was  considsrable  discussion  of  that  point  in 
tlie  committee,  and  there  were  scvcml  mem- 
bers who  thought  there  would  be  difficulty, 
after  a  new  apportionment,  in  knowing  what 
Senators  were  to  hold  over,  or  who  to  elect, 
where  senatorial  districts  might  be  cut  up  by 
the  new  apportionment,  and  to  know  how  to 
arrange  and  calculate  the  representation  under 
the  new  apportioinnent — some  Senators  hold- 
ing over  and  others  not.  My  own  opinion 
was,  that  it  could  be  done  without  having 
an    entire    new  election.      Other   member« 


thought  otherwise;  and  for  the  purpose  of 
obviating  the  difficulty,  the  report  was  put 
into  the  foi-m  it  is. 

The  amendment  was  rejected. 

Sec.  C.  The  first  session  of  the  Legislature 
after  the  adoption  of  this  Constitution,  and  each 
session  immediately  succeeding  the  return  of  the 
census  provided  for  in  this  article,  shall  not  ex- 
tend beyond  the  term  of  ninety  days.  No  other 
regular  session  shall  extend  beyond  the  term  of 
sixty  days,  nor  any  special  session  beyond  the 
term  of  forty  days.  The  Legislature  shall  meet 
at  the  seat  of  government  on  the  first  Wednesday 
in  January  in  each  year,  and  not  oftener  unless 
convehed  by  the  Governor. 

Mr.  MORGAN.  Mr.  Chairman,  I  move  to 
strike  out  "  sixty,"  in  the  fifth  line,  and  in- 
sert "  seventy-five."  I  do  not  think  sixty 
days  sufficient  time  for  the  regular  session  of 
the  Legislature.  I  know  that  here  in  tliis 
Territory  sixty  days  has  been  found  rather 
short.  The  business  has  been  very  much 
hurried  toward  the  close  of  the  session.  I  do 
not  think  the  public  good  will  be  subserved 
by  this  restriction,  and  I  therefore  propose 
seventy-five  days.  If  the  business  can  bo 
done  in  less  time,  of  course  it  will  be  all  the 
better.  But  I  apprehend,  that  by  hurrying 
through  the  business  of  legislation,  the  State 
will  lose  a  great  deal  more  than  it  wiU  gain  by 
restricting  the  time  of  the  session. 

Mr.  NORTH.  Mr.  Chairman,  I  wUl  state 
the  reasons  that  actuated  the  committee  in 
thus  fixing  the  time.  It  has  been  generally 
known,  that  since  this  Territory  commenced 
its  Territorial  existence,  a  large  share  of  the 
sessions  of  the  Legislature  have  been  spent 
otherwise  than  in  the  enactment  of  laws  and 
attending  to  the  business  legitimately  before 
them.  It  has  not  unfrequently  happened, 
that  the  Legislature  has  occupied  its  two 
weeks  in  organizing.  It  was  because  too 
much  time  had  been  given  away  in  this  man- 
ner, and  in  view  of  the  importance  of  organ- 
izing on  the  first  day  of  the  session  as  we  did 
here,  and  as  I  hope  Republicans  will  always 
be  inclined  to  do — that  it  was  thought  best 
to  luuit  the  regular  sessions  to  sixty  days. 
This  will  give  an  abundance  of  time,  if  it  is 
improved  properly.  In  Connecticut  where 
they  Imve  the  very  large  representation  re- 
ferred to,  they  only  have  about  a  four  vrceks 
session.  It  seems  to  me  that  sixty  days  for 
the  regular  session,  and  ninety  days  when 
there  is  an  apportionment,  is  ample  time. 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Thubsday,  July  30. 


201 


Mr.  FOLSOM.  It  seems  to  me  that  sixty- 
days  will  be  sufficient  time.  I  believe,  if  we 
were  limited  to  a  hundred  days,  there  would 
be  foimd  many  persons  to  desire  a  hundred 
and  fifty. 

Mr.  ALDRICH.  In  Illinois  the  sessions 
are  limited  to  forty  days,  including  Simdays, 
yet  they  generally  manage  to  get  through.  In 
the  State  of  Rhode  Island,  also,  they  get 
through  in  a  much  less  time. 

Mr.  MURPHY.  It  is  useless  to  extend 
the  time,  Mr.  Chairman.  If  they  can't  get 
through  in  sixty  days,  let  us  have  another  set 
of  men. 

The  amendment  was  rejected. 

Sec.  9.  Each  House  mar  determine  the  rules 
of  its  own  proceedings,  punish  for  contempt  or 
disorderly  behavior,  and  with  the  concurrence  of 
two-thirds  of  all  the  members  elected,  expel  a 
member ;  but  no  member  shall  be  expelled  a  sec- 
end  time  for  the  same  cause. 

Mr.  PERKINS.  I  would  inquire  of  the 
Chairman  of  the  committee,  what  is  to  be 
imderstood  by  this  "  second  time  ?" 

Mr.  NORTH.  I  suppose  it  means  simply, 
in  a  case  where  a  member  has  been  expelled 
and  sent  home,  if  the  people  elect  him  again, 
it  would  not  be  constitutional  to  turn  him  out 
the  second  time.  Joshua  R.  Giddings,  an 
Ohio  Congressman,  was  once  sent  home  to 
his  constituents,  and  they  sent  him  back 
again. 

:Mr.  COGGSWELL.  So  in  the  case  of 
Brooks.     (Laughter). 

Sec.  11.  Each  House  shall  keep  a  Journal  of  its 
proceedings  and  shall  publish  the  same,  except 
such  parts  as  require  secrecy.  The  doors  of  each 
House  shall  be  kept  open  except  when  the  public 
welfare  requires  secrecy.  Xeither  House  shall, 
without  the  consent  of  the  other,  adjourn  for  more 
than  three  days. 

Mr.  MORGAN.  Mr.  Chairman,  what  are 
we  to  imderstand  by  these  words,  "  shall 
"  publish  the  same  ?"  It  is  doubtful  whether 
it  is  to  be  imderstood  that  the  journal  of  each 
House  is  to  be  published  at  the  public  ex- 
pense ;  or  whether  it  shall  be  a  mere  journal 
kept  for  pubhc  inspection. 

Mr.  NORTH.  I  suppose  it  means,  that 
the  Legislature  do  as  they  see  fit  in  the  mat- 
ter of  printing.  It  will  be  expected  that  their 
journal  will  be  published,  at  least,  in  the  pa- 
per employed  to  do  the  printing.  It  was  not 
a  matter  thought  of  very  minutely  in  the 
committee,  but  that  was  the  impression. 
26 


Mr.  BILLINGS.  We  ha'^e  already  a  law 
for  the  pubUcation  and  distribution  of  the 
laws. 

Mr.  MORGAN.  It  has  been  usual  for  the 
newspapers  to  publish  sketches  of  the  pro- 
ceedings of  the  Legislatiure ;  but  as  for  the 
publication  of  the  journal,  I  believe  that  never 
has  been  done. 

Mr.  NORTH.  Yes  sir,  they  "are  published 
in  pamphlet  form  every  year — ^about  two 
thousand  copies.  You  can  supply  yourself 
below. 

Sec.  16.  Xo  member  of  the  Legislature  shall 
be  liable  in  any  civil  action  or  criminal  prosecu- 
tion whatever  for  words  spoken  in  debate. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  I  move  to  strike  out 
section  sixteen. 

The  motion  was  rejected. 

Sec.  22i  A  majority  of  all  the  members  elected 
to  each  House  shall  be  necessary  to  pass  every  bU 
or  joint  resolution,  and  all  bills  or  joint  resolutions 
shall  be  signed  by  the  presiding  officers  of  the 
respective  Houses. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  Mr.  Chairhax  :  I  move 
that  section  be  stricken  out ;  and  I  will  give 
briefly  the  reasons  I  have  for  making  the 
motion.  It  is  an  unusual  provision  to  require 
that  there  shall  be  a  majority  of  all  the  mem- 
bers elected  to  the  House,  to  pass  a  bill ,  and 
it  seems  to  me  an  unreasonable  one.  For 
instance,  if  a  third  or  quarter  part  of  the 
members  elected  do  not  see  fit  to  take  their 
places  in  the  Legislature,  it  would  require  a 
clear  majority  of  the  members,  who  were  qual- 
ified members  of  the  Legislature,  to  pass  a  bill. 
Again,  I  object  to  the  section  on  account  of 
the  last  provision,  which  requires  that  every 
bill  or  joint  resolution  shall  be,signed  by  the 
presiding  officers  of  the  two  houses.  I  think 
that  should  be  left  to  the  two  Houses  them- 
selves. The  signatures  of  the  presiding 
officers  are  no  part  of  the  bills.  They  are 
merely  a  method  of  authenticating  the  bills, 
or  of  proving  to  the  Governor  that  they  have 
been  passed ;  and  I  think  it  is  a  matter  that 
should  be  left  to  each  House  to  determine  by 
its  own  rules. 

Mr.  MORGAN.  I  hope  the  section  will  be 
stricken  out.  It  is  an  unusual  and  imwise 
provision  to  give  power  into  the  hands 
of  a  minority  to  distract  and  prevent  pro- 
ceedings by  withdrawing  from  the  Legisla- 
ture. I  remember  a  case  in  the  New  York 
Legislature,  where  the  canal  works  of  that 


-^02 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Thursday,  July  CO. 


State  were  thrown  back  a  whole  year  by 
members  withdrawing  themselves  from  the 
House. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  I  think  if  gentlemen 
win  read  the  section  once  more,  they  will 
dismiss  their  objections.     It  says  : 

"  A  majority  of  the  members  elected  shall  be 
necessary  to  pass  every  bill  or  joint  resolution." 

— It  does  not  say  they  shall  vote  for  it.  It 
does  not  say  it  shall  take  more  than  a  majority 
•of  all  the  members  present,  but  that  it  shall 
require  a  clear  working  majority  of  all  the 
members  elected  to  be  present,  and  a  majority 
of  those  present  voting  for  the  measure. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  If  that  is  the  interpreta- 
tion, I  shall  vote  against  it  as  unnecessary ; 
for  it  always  requires  a  quorum  to  do  busi- 
ness. But  then  the  section  does  not  require 
a  majority  of  all  the  members  elected  to  vote 
for  the  bill. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  The  reason  why  that 
section  was  incorporated  there,  was  to  pro- 
vide against  a  case  like  this  :  where  certain 
members  do  not  happen  to  be  present,  and  a 
certain  portion  of  the  body  do  not  desire  their 
presence,  a  member  gets  up  and  asks  that  a 
member  be  excused,  and  the  Chair  thereupon 
deciding  that  a  majority  of  the  members 
acting  and  present  can  go  on  and  do  business. 
It  is  to  provide  against  that. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  If  the  gentleman  who 
last  spoke  (Mr.  Staxnard)  truly  represented 
■the  section,  it  would  seem  that  it  should  be 
retained ;  for  it  would  induce  members  to  be 
■careful  to'be  present.  But  suppose  the  same 
.principle  were  applied  to  this  Convention,  we 
would  have  to*  be  very  constant  in  our  atten- 
tion here — much  more  than  we  have  been. 
But  suppose,  again,  that  a  portion  of  the 
members  of  the  Legislature  should  withdraw 
accidentally,  it  is  manifest  that  a  strict  en- 
forcement of  the  rule  would  retard  business. 
The  principle  appplied  to  this  Convention 
would  certainly  operate  badly.  I  see  no 
advantage  in  it. 

Mr,  STANNARD.  I  certainly  cannot  vote 
for  the  report,  unless  the  Convention  will  fix 
the  quorum.  I  do  not  want  to  fly  the  track. 
All  I  ask  is  to  say  that  a  quorum  shall  be  a 
majority  of  the  members  elected. 

Mr.  CLEGHORN.  If  the  gentleman  will 
look  at  section  cightli,  he  will  find  a  quorum 
provided  for. 


Mr.  WILSON.  I  would  like  to  hear  again 
whether  I  understand  the  gentleman  on  my 
left,  (Mr.  Standard)  whether  it  requires  a 
majority  of  all  the  members  elected  to  pass  a 
bill,  or  a  majority  to  be  present.  I  think, 
from  the  reading,  that  it  re(|uires  a  majority 
to  vote  for  the  bill.  I  would  not  say  cer- 
tainly either  way,  but  I  think  so. 

The  section  was  stricken  out. 

Sec.  23.  Every  bill  and  joint  resolution,  except 
of  adjournment,  passed  by  the  Legislature,  sliall 
be  presented  to  the  Governor  before  it  becomes  a 
law.  If  he  approve  he  shall  sign  it ;  but  if  not,  he 
shall  return  it  with  his  objections  to  the  House  in 
which  it  originated,  which  shall  enter  the  objection 
at  large  upon  its  journal,  and  reconsider  it.  On 
such  reconsideration,  if  two-thirds  of  the  members 
elected  agree  to  pass  the  bill,  it  shall  be  sent  with 
the  objections  to  the  other  House  by  which  it  shall 
be  reconsidered.  If  approved  by  two-thirds  of 
the  members  of  that  House,  it  shall  become  a  law. 
In  such  case  the  vote  of  both  Houses  shall  be  de- 
termined by  the  yeas  and  nays,  and  the  names  of 
the  members  voting  for  or  against  the  bill  shall  be 
entered  on  the  journals  of  each  House  respectively. 
If  any  bill  be  not  returned  by  the  Governor  within 
three  days,  (Sundays  excepted)  after  it  has  been 
presented  to  him,  the  same  shall  become  a  law  in 
like  manner  as  if  he  had  signed  it,  unless  the  lA'g- 
islature,  by  their  adjournment  prevent  its  return, 
in  which  case  it  shall  not  become  a  law.  The  Gov- 
ernor may  approve,  sign,  and  file  in  the  oihce  of 
the  Secretary  of  State  within  three  days  alter  the 
adjournment  of  the  Legislature,  any  act  passed 
during  the  last  three  days  of  the  session,  and  the 
same  shall  become  a  law. 

Mr.  BOBBINS.  I  move  to  strike  out  that 
section.  It  seems  to  me  that  the  subject 
matter  of  it  will  come  in  more  appropriately 
in  the  report  on  the  Executive  Department. 

Mr.  ALDRICH.  I  would  ask  the  gentle- 
man to  modify  his  motion  so  as  to  strike  out 
all  except  the  four  last  lines.  That  provision 
does  not  belong  to  the  Ecxecutive  Depart- 
ment. 

Mr.  NORTH.  I  would  inquire  of  the  -eii- 
tlenian,  if  that  part  of  this  section  wliich 
controls  the  action  of  each  House,  ouglil  to 
be  in  the  report  on  the  Executive  Department  ? 
It  says : 

"  In  such  case  the  vote  of  both  Houses  shall  be 
determined  by  the  ycas'and  nays,  and  the  names 
of  the  members  voting  for  and  against  the  bill 
shall  be  entered  on  tlie  journals  of  earh  Hduse 
respectively." 

— It  seems  to  mo  that  there  is  so  much  of 
this  section  wiiich  applies  to  and  controls  the 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Tutbsdat,  July  30. 


20a> 


action  of  the  Legislature,  that  its  proper  place 
is  in  the  report  upon  the  L<^.?lative  Depart- 
ment. I  therefore  object  to  its  being  stricken 
out. 

Mr.  MORGAN.  I  was  one  of  the  com- 
mittee that  made  the  report  upon  the  Execu- 
tive Department,  and  upon  consideration  I 
think  this  section  belongs  to  the  Lc^lative 
Department  of  the  Goveiimient,  that  the  ac- 
tion of  the  government  in  this  respect  is  legis- 
lative action  and  not  executive ;  and  hence 
that  is  now  in  its  proper  place.  If  we  re- 
tain it  here,  tte  committee  on  arrangement 
will  strike  it  out  from  the  other  bUl.  Besides, 
the  last  clause  of  this  section  is  not  in  the  re- 
port on  the  other  department. 

Mr.  FOLSOM.  Every  bill  and  resolution 
must  originate  in  the  legislative  body,  and  it 
seems  to  me  that  everything  which  relates  to 
the  perfection  of  the^se  bills  and  resolutiens 
into  laws,  properly  belong  to-  the  Legislative 
Department. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  I  consider  the  clause 
with  respect  to  a  two-third  vote,  is  but  a  qual- 
ification of  the  veto  power,  which  belongs  to 
the  Executive. 

Mr.  WILSON.  There  is  one  reason  why 
I  want  it  stricken  out  here,  and  why  I  prefer 
that  in  the  report  on  the  Executive.  It  says 
here  "  if  two-thirds  of  the  members  elected 
"  agree  to  pass  the  bill-  it  shall  be  sent,  &c." 
Now  I  do  not  want  to  make  that  provision  so 
stringent  as  to  require  two-thirds  of  the 
members  elected.     , 

Mr.  NORTH.  I  think  that  upon  reflection 
the  gentleman  from  Chisago  Covmty  (Mr. 
Stannabd)  will  come  to  the  conclusion  that 
this  provides  more  for  legislation,  than  for  the 
veto  power.  It  presents  the  manner  in  which 
a  bill  is  to  become  a  law  when  an  objection  Ls 
made  to  it  by  the  Governor.  Therefore  I 
tlunk  it  belong  here.  As  to  the  objection 
raised  by  the  gentleman  from  "Winona,  (Mr. 
WiLSOs)  for  myself  I  think  it  is  none  too 
stringent. 

The  committee  refused  to  strike  out  the 
section. 

Mr.  HUDSON.  I  move  to  strike  out  the 
word  "  three"  in  the  thirteenth  line  and  in- 
sert the  word  "  ten." 

Mr.  ^ViDRICH.  I  hope  that  amendment 
will  not  prevail.  That  matter  was  discussed 
in  the  committee  and  they  come  to  the  con- 


clusion that  three  days  was  giving  sufficient 
time. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  Pretty  much  all  the 
business  of  legislation  is  done  within  the  last 
ten  days,  and  the  Governor  might  pocket 
every  bill  passed,  if  you  adopt  this  amend- 
ment. 

The  amendment  was  not  agreed  to. 

ilr.  PECHAM.  I  move  to  strike  out  the 
word  "  elected"  in  the  sixth  line  and  insert 
the  word  "  present." 

The  amendment  was  agreed  to. 

"  Sec.  25.  Every  statute  shall  be  a  public  law 
unless  otherwise  declared  in  the  statute  itself." 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  I  would  hke  to  hear 
some  member  of  the  Convention  explain  the 
meaning  of  that  section. 

Mr.  NORTH.  Private  bills  are  not  always 
called  public  laws  and  sometimes  there  are 
legislative  provisions  which  require  public 
laws  to  be  published  before  they  take  eifect. 

Judges  are  also  required  to  take  notice  of 
public  laws,  but  not  private  statutes,  unless" 
they  are  pleaded. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  That  it  was  found  in 
other  Constitutions,  and  therefore  should  be 
placed  in  here,  is  the  best  reason  I  have  yet 
heard.  Now  I  have  read  Greenleaf,  Starkey, 
and  other  old  authors,  as  well  as  the  gentle- 
man from  Rice  County,  and  I  say  that  the 
only  eflFect  of  this  section  will  be  to  alter  the 
old  common  law  rule  in  regard  to  certain 
matters  connected  with  evidence.  Now  if  we 
are  going  to  avoid  everything  which  looks 
like  legislation,  as  many  gentlemen  strenu- 
ously contend  we  shall,  let  us  not  alter  the 
principles  of  common  law  in  that  respect.  I 
am  in  favor  of  striking  out  the  section. 

Mr.  CLEGHORN  (interrupting).  I  riseta 
a  point  of  order.  There  Ls  no  question  be- 
fore the  House. 

Mr.  NORTH.  I  suggest  if  the  gwitleman 
wants  it  stricken  out,  he  make  a  motion  to 
that  effect,  and  let  us  talk  to  something. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  I  do  not  make  tlie 
motion. 

Mr.  NORTH.  Then  I  object  to  the  gentle- 
man's proceeding. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  If  it  is  in  other  Con- 
stitutions, I  want  it  in  ours.     (Laughter). 

"  Sec.  27.  Each  member  of  the  Legislature 
shall  receive  for  his  services  three  dollars  for  each 
day's  attendance  during  the  session,  and  ten  cents 
for  ev£ry  mile  he  shall  travel  in  going  to  and  re- 


204 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Thuesday,  Jitly  30. 


turning  from  the  place  of  the  meeting  of  the  Le- 
gislature on  the  most  usual  route." 

Mr.  COG GS  WELL.  I  move  to  amend  by 
striking  out  "three"  and  inserting  "  four." 
That  is  small  pay  enough  if  you  have  any- 
thing like  decent  men  for  Legislators. 

The  amendment  was  not  agreed  to. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  move  to  strike  out  all 
after  the  word  "  services"  and  insert  in  lieu 
thereof  the  words  "  and  travel  such  compen- 
"  sation  as  shall  be  provided  by  law,"  so  that 
the  section  shall  read — 

"Each  member  of  the  Legislature  shall  receive 
for  his  services  and  travel  such  compensation  as 
shall  be  provided  by  law." 

The  amendment  was  agreed  to. 

"  Sec.  31.  The  Legislature  shall  not  establish 
a  State  Paper.  Every  newspaper  in  the  State 
which  shall  publish  the  general  laws  of  a  session 
within  forty  days  of  their  passage  shall  be  entitled 
to  receive  a  sura  not  exceeding  fifteen  dollars 
therefor." 

Mr.  RUSSELL.  I  move  to  strike  out  that 
section  and  insert  the  following  substitute : 

"The  Legislature  shall  not  establish  a  State  pa- 
per. Any  two  papers  having  the  largest  circula- 
tion within  the  county  where  printed,  which  shall 
publish  the  general  laws  of  the  legislative  session 
within  three  months  after  their  passage,  shall  be 
entitled  to  receive  therefor  the  sum  of  one  dollar 
for  each  thousand  ems." 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  hope  the  amendment 
will  not  be  adopted,  and  that  this  section  will 
be  stricken  out  entirely.  I  do  not  see  the 
necessity  of  binding  up  the  Legislature  in 
this  way.  This  does  not  provide  any  way 
whereby  the  laws  can  be  published,  unless  by 
a  voluntary  publication  on  the  part  of  the 
different  papers  of  the  State.  Suppose  no 
paper  does  publish  them,  then  the  Legisla- 
ture are  prohibited  from  procuring  their  pub- 
lication. I  would  leave  it  for  the  Legislature 
to  determine  the  matter  for  themselves. 

The  amendment  was  not  agreed  to. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  move  that  the  section 
be  stricken  out. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to. 

"Sec.  82.  The  Legislature  may  submit  to  the 
people  any  Act  for  their  ratification  or  rejection, 
and  such  act  so  submitted  shall,  if  approved  by  a 
majority  of  the  legal  voters  at  the  appointed  elec- 
tion, become  a  law." 

Mr.  STANNARD.  I  move  to  strike  out 
l\iat  section. 


Mr.  HUDSON.  I  hope  that  motion  will 
not  prevail.  It  is  frequently  desirable  to  sub- 
mit certain  questions  to  the  people,  and  the 
will  of  the  people  should  be  the  law. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  hope  the  section  will 
not  be  stricken  out.  It  has  been  decided  re- 
peatedly that  where  there  is  no  such  pro- 
vision, it  is  unconstitutional  to  submit  laws 
to  the  people.  It  has  been  decided  the  other 
way  too,  I  believe.  To  make  the  matter  sure, 
I  am  in  favor  of  allowing  the  section  to  stand 
as  it  is. 

Mr.  HUDSON.  In  Michigan,  four  judges 
of  the  Supreme  Court  held  that  it  was  Con- 
stitutional, and  four  judges  held  that  it  was 
not. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  The  question  has  been 
mooted  in  several  of  the  States.  In  Massa- 
chusetts a  long  discussion  was  had  upon  the 
same  question,  and  to  remove  all  doubt  I 
hope  the  section  will  be  retained. 

Mr.  MURPHY.  I  hope  the  section  will  be 
retained.  We  have  had  the  matter  tried  in 
this  TeiTitory.  The  Maine  liquor  law,  as  it 
is  called,  was  submitted  to  the  people,  and 
the  judges  decided  that  such  a  submission 
was  unconstitutional. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  The  subject  was  dis- 
cussed in  the  Massachusetts  Legislature,  and 
it  was  contended  by  some  that  the  people  had 
no  power  to  pass  a  law  submitted  to  their  ac- 
tion, in  the  absence  of  any  provision  in  the 
Constitution,  authorizing  such  submission. 

Mr.  KING.  I  move  to  amend  the  section 
by  striking  out  the  words  "  legal  votes,"  and 
inserting  in  lieu  thereof,  the  words  "  voters 
voting  "  The  word  "  legal  voters  "  might  be 
construed  to  mean  the  voters  in  the  Territory, 
and  if  a  majority  did  not  vote,  it  would  not 
become  a  law. 

Mr.  PERKINS.  There  can  be  no  doubt 
but  that  this  section  is  declaratory  of  a  doubt- 
fUl  legal  question.  I  know  there  was  consid- 
erable trouble  over  the  matter  in  Vermont, 
but  it  was  there  finally  decided  that  a  ques- 
tion might  be  submitted  to  the  people. 

Mr.  NORTH.  This  question  has  arisen 
upon  a  great  many  different  subjects.  There 
are  many  subjects  which  Legislatures  gene- 
rally refer  to  the  decision  of  the  people.  It 
is  not  uncommon  that  banking  laws  arc  sub- 
mitted to  the  people.  Such  is  the  case  in 
Wisconsin.     Schoollaws  arc  also  frequently 


MINNESOTACOXVEXTION  DEBATES— Thubsdat,  July  SO. 


205 


submitted.  It  is  also  quite  common  for  Le- 
gislatures to  delegate  certain  powers  to  coun- 
ties, and  they  are  allowed  to  vote  upon  the 
location  of  the  coimty  seat.  Boards  of  Su- 
pervisors are  also  frequently  clothed  with 
certain  powers,  and  they,  in  turn,  submit  the 
question  to  the  people  for  their  action.  Now 
if  there  is  to  be  a  question  about  the  Consti- 
tutionality of  that  kind  of  legislation,  which 
may  cause  litigation  for  years,  and  great 
expense  and  inconvenience,  it  would  be  well 
to  settle  it  here. 

Mr.  FOLSOM.  I  do  not  profess  to  under- 
stand the  question  of  the  Constitutionality  or 
unconstitutionaUty  of  this  matter,  but  it  does 
seem  to  me  that  to  refer  a  question  to  the 
people  is  Democratic  and  Republican.  Now 
I  am  not  in  favor  of  calling  the  people  out  to 
vote  upon  a  question,  when  it  will  do  no  good, 
and  only  result  in  squandering  their  time  and 
money.  I  was  once  called  out  to  vote  upon 
a  question  submitted  to  the  people,  and  the 
judges  afterwards  decided  that  the  people  of 
the  Territory,  as  a  people,  had  no  right  to  pass 
a  law :  that  the  Legislature  were  the  only  law 
making  power.  If,  in  the  future  legislation 
of  our  State,  it  is  thought  best  to  submit  a 
measure  to  the  people  for  their  approval,  I 
hold  that  we  should  have  a  clause  in  our 
Constitution,  making  such  a  submission  valid. 

Mr.  STAXXARD.  I  have  taken  a  great 
deal  of  interest  in  reading  the  reports,  not 
only  of  Vermont  and  Massachusetts,  but  of 
our  own  Territory,  on  this  question.  In 
those  reports,  the  principles  of  our  govern- 
ment were  pretty  thoroughly  discussed.  TTe 
are  not  so  pure  a  Democracy  as  many  per- 
sons imagine.  Our  government  is  a  medium 
between  aristocracy  and  democracy.  The 
people  are  supposed  to  choose  the  best  men 
to  make  laws  for  them,  and  in  that  respect 
our  government  is  more  of  an  aristocracy 
than  a  democracy.  It  has  been  decided  that 
the  Executive  and  the  Legislature  are  the 
only  law  making  powers. 

Mr.  NORTH.  That  is  the  veiy  reason 
why  we  need  such  a  provision  as  this.  It 
very  frequently  happens  that  the  Legislature 
is  called  upon  to  legislate  upon  important 
matters,  in  reference  to  which  they  were  not 
elected.  They,  in  their  discretion,  refer  the 
matter  to  the  people  and  ask  them  to  decide 
upon  it.    The  people  decide  it,  and  then  some 


judge  says  to  the  people :  "  you  have  no  busi- 
ness to  pass  upon  such  a  matter,  for  it  is  un- 
constitutional." Now  it  seems  to  me  that 
such  is  not  the  treatment  which  the  people 
should  receive,  and  there  should  be  some  pro- 
vision to  guard  against  its  recurrence. 

The  amendment  was  not  agreed  to. 

The  question  recurring  on  the  motion  to 
strike  out  the  section,  it  was  put  and  decided 
in  the  negative. 

"Sec.  35.  The  Legislature  shall  determine 
what  persons  shall  constitute  the  Militia  of  the 
State,  and  mar  provide  for  organizing  and  disci- 
plining the  same  in  such  manner  as  shall  be  pre- 
scribed bj  law." 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  move  to  strike  out 
that  section. 

Mr.  ALDRICH.  I  hope  the  motion  will 
prevail,  as  that  matter  properly  belongs  to  the 
committee  upon  the  Militia. 

Mr.  NORTH.  I  am  surprised  to  hear  such 
a  motion  as  that  come  from  a  member  of  the 
committee  on  the  Militia. 

Mr.  COLBLTIN.  The  committee  on  the 
Militia  propose  to  introduce  a  better  provision 
than  that. 

Mr.  NORTH.  I  should  like  to  see  what 
the  provision  is,  before  tiiis  section  is  stricken 
out. 

The  motion  to  strike  out  was  agreed  to.  ^ 

"  Sec.  36.  The  Legislature  may  contract  debts 
to  meet  casual  deficits  or  failures  in  the  revenue, 
but  such  debts  direct  or  contingent,  singly  or  in 
the  aggregate,  shall  not  at  any  time  exceed  five 
hundred  thousand  dollars ;  andt  he  moneys  arising 
from  loans  creating  such  debts  shall  be  applied  to 
the  purposes  for  which  they  were  obtained,  or  to 
pay  such  debts ;  Provided,  that  the  State  may  con- 
tract debts  to  repel  invasion,  suppress  insurrection, 
or  if  hostilities  are  threatened,  provide  for  the 
public  defense." 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  I  move  to  strike  out 
that  section  for  the  reason,  that  the  subject 
matter  belongs  to  the  committee  upon  Pi- 
nance  and  Public  Debt. 

Mr.  ROBBINS.  Also  to  the  committee 
upon  Internal  Improvements. 

The  motion  was  not  agreed  to. 

Mr.  THOMPSON.  I  beUeve  the  bill  has 
now  been  read  through.  I  desire  to  offer  an 
amendment  to  section  two,  to  strike  out  the 
words  "  sixty-four,"  and  insert  "  fifty,"  so  as 
to  provide  that  the  House  of  Representatives 
shall  consist  of  not  less  than  fifty  members, 
nor  more  than  one  hundred. 


206 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Tiilrsday,  July  30. 


The  amendment  was  not  aiiveed  to. 

Ml".  COLBURN.  I  move  to  amend  section 
two,  by  inserting  "  and  twenty-five,"  after  the 
word  "  hundred,"  so  as  to  provide  that  the 
House  shall  not  consist  of  more  than  one 
hundred  and  twenty-five  members.  I  do  not 
ofFer^this  because  I  desire  so  large  a  House 
at  present,  but  the  time  may  come  before  the 
people  will  want  to  alter  this  Constitution, 
when  they  will  actually  demand  a  larger  num- 
ber of  Representatives.  This  number  is  not 
materially  larger,  and  I  can  see  no  objection 
to  adding  it,  because  if  the  people  do  not 
demand  an  increase  of  members,  the  Legisla- 
ture will  not  provide  for  it. 

Mr.  NORTH.  The  great  State  of  New 
York  has  had  but  one  hundred  and  twenty- 
eight  members  in  their  House  of  Represen- 
tatives, although  she  has  a  population  of  over 
two  millions,  and  I  think  we  can  get  along 
with  a  hundred. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  But  the  little  State  of 
Massachusetts  has  a  House  of  over  three 
hundred  members. 

Mr.  MORGAN.  There  are  not  as  many 
counties  in  the  State  of  New  York,  as  there 
are  in  this  Territory  now.  There  will  be  a 
great  many  counties  in  this  State  with  a 
sparse  population,  and  I  think  it  will  be  found 
V  necessary,  in  order  to  have  a  fair  representa- 
tion to  have  a  large  popular  branch.  I  am 
decidedly  in  favor  of  increasing  the  number 
to  one  hundred  and  twenty -five.  If  the  State 
does  not  wish  so  large  a  popular  branch,  the 
Legislature  will  not  provide  for  it. 

Mr.  ALDRICH.  In  the  State  of  Illinois 
it  is  provided  that  the  Senate  shall  consist  of 
twenty-five,  and  the  House  of  Representatives 
of  seventy-five  members  until  the  population 
shall  amount  to  one  million,  and  that  the  pop- 
ular V)ranch  shall  not  then  exceed  one  hun- 
dred members.  That  State  has  one  hundred 
counties.  I  am  in  favor  of  as  small  a  num- 
ber as  can  be  got  along  with.  I  think  it  will 
not  be  many  years  before  a  larger  number  will 
be  required  than  is  provided  for  in  the  report. 
The  amendment  was  not  agreed  to. 
Mr.  CLEGIIORN.  I  offer  the  following 
as  an  additional  section  : 

"Sbc.  — .  Divorces  shall  not  be  granted  by  the 
Legislature." 

Mr.  WILSON.  I  hope  that  will  be  adop- 
ted.    It  certainly  is  a  good  provision. 


Mr.  COLBURN.  I  move  to  amend  by 
adding  thereto  the  words,  "  in  this  State." 

Mr.  CLEGIIORN.  I  accept  that  as  a  mod- 
ification of  my  amendment. 

Mr.  BILLINGS.  I  am  in  favor  of  the 
amendment.  It  seems  to  me  that  the  propri- 
ety of  the  thing  will  suggest  itself  to  every 
one  who  thinks  candidly  upon  the  subject. 
It  has  been  the  habit  of  the  Legislature  to 
devote  almost  all  its  time  to  cases  of  divorce, 
and  all  who  are  able  to  come  here  and  log- 
roll, can  get  divorces. 

Mr..  MURPHY.  I  hope  the  section  will  bo- 
adopted.  A  case  occurred  in  this  Territory 
in  which  the  Legislature  one  winter  granted 
a  bill  of  divorce ;  the  next  summer  the  parties 
were  married  again,  and  the  next  winter 
they  came  to  the  Legislature  and  got  another 
divorce.  Our  Legislatures  have  been  con- 
stantly troubled  with  these  matters.  We 
have  now  a  very  liberal  law  upon  this  subject^ 
and  I  hope  the  matter  will  be  taken  out  of 
the  hands  of  the  Legislature. 

The  section  was  adopted. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  I  move  to  add  to, 
section  four  these  words : 

"  Provided  that  nothing  in  this  section  shall  be- 
so  construed  as  to  interfere  with  the  manner  of 
electing  Representatives  to  the  first  Legislature  to 
be  convened  under  this  Constitution." 

Mr.BALCOMBE.  I  cannot  see  the  pro- 
priety of  inserting  anj^thing  of  that  kind  into< 
the  body  of  the  Constitution.  When  we 
come  to  frame  the  schedule  all  matters  per- 
taining to  the  transition  state  will  be  provided 
for. 

Mr.  BILLINGS.  I  believe  the  amend- 
ment is  not  properly  before  the  committee,  as 
it  has  not  been  reduced  to  writing.  I  move 
to  amend  the  same  section  by  striking  out  the 
word,  "  October,"  and  inserting  "November," 
so  as  to  provide  that  the  election  of  mem  beas 
of  the  House  of  Representatives  shall  ho 
on  the  Tuesday  succeeding  the  first  .Momluy 
of  November  instead  of  October. 

Mr.  ALDRICH.  I  hope  the  amendment 
will  ivot  prevail.  If  we  a\  cic  situated  as  some 
Territories  are,  I  should  bo  in  favor  of  the 
change.  But  we  have  a  large  population  who 
annually  go  into  the  woods  a  logging.  If  our 
election  is  put  off  until  November,  we  de- 
prive them  of  the  privilege  of  voting. 

Mr.  BILLINGS.     And  we  have   many  in 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION    DEBATES— Thursday,  Jcly  30. 


20T 


the  southern  part  of  the  Territory  who  are 
threshing  buckwheat  about  that  time. 

Mr.  ALDRICH.  These  men  go  into  the 
woods  three  hundred  miles  away,  and  it  is 
not  so  convenient  quite  for  them  to  get  to  the 
polls,  as  it  is  for  the  gentleman's  constituents 
who  are  threshing  buckwheat. 

Mr.  NORTH.  That  subject  was  considered 
in  the  committee,  and  one  member  of  the 
committee  said  that  in  his  section  of  the  Ter- 
ritory there  are  something  like  two  thousand 
men  who  go  into  the  woods  logging  early  in 
the  fell,  beyond  the  reach  of  voting  precincts. 
They  would  be  deprived  of  the  privilege  of 
voting  if  this  amendment  should  prevail. 
That  is  a  matter  of  some  importance,  and  an 
interest  we  ought  to  consider.  On  that 
account  it  was,  that  the  statutes  of  our  Terri- 
tory have  heretofore  fixed  the  time  in  Octo- 
ber, and  it  was  this  reason  which  induced  the 
committee  to  determine  upon  that  time. 

Mr.  MURPHY.  We  have  m  St.  Anthony 
fi-om  one  hundred  and  fifty  to  two  hundred 
persons  who  go  to  the  pineries  every  fall,  all 
of  whom  are  Republicans.  I  have  known 
them  to  delay  their  departure  a  week,  or  two 
weeks,  in  order  to  deposit  their  votes.  But 
rf  the  time  of  election  is  put  off  until  Novem- 
ber, we  shall  lose  from  one  to  three  hundred 
votes.  We  should  lose  in  Minneapolis  to 
about  the  same  extent.  It  would  be  more  of 
an  injury  to  St.  Antliony  and  St.  Croix  than 
to  any  other  part  of  the  Territory. 

Mr.  BILLINGS.  My  remark  in  reference 
to  threshing  buckwheat  was  but  a  jest  to 
off'set  a  previous  remai'k  made  by  another 
gentleman.  If  there  is  an}-  force  in  the  argu- 
ment that  we  shall  poll  less  votes,  I  do  not 
know  that  it  necessarily  follows  that  the  Re- 
publicans in  particular  wiU  lose  by  it,  for  I 
presume  that  the  class  of  persons  who  go  into 
woods  are  both  Democrats  and  Republi- 
cans, 

Mr.  NORTH.  Is  it  right  to  deprive  two 
or  three  thousand  voters  of  their  votes  ? 

Mr.  BILLINGS.  I  say  no,  but  the  same 
argument  which  applies  to  this  case  would 
apply  to  the  fixing  of  any  other  special  time. 
To  fix  the  day  for  October  would  deprive 
many  others  and  a  different  class  of  men,  of 
their  votes,  because  navigation  is  not  then 
closed.  You  can  fix  no  day  but  what  some 
must  be  necessarily  absent  from  the  polls. 


October  is  just  the  time  of  the  year  when  our 
merchants,  in  the  southern  part  of  the  Terri- 
tory, go  east  to  purchase  goods.  A  consider- 
ation in  favor  of  November,  is,  that  that  is 
the  time  for  the  Presidential  election,  and  we 
should  get  a  larger  vote  for  our  State  ticket, 
when  that  election  comes  at  the  same  time 
\rith  the  Presidential  election.  Men  get 
warmed  up  at  that  time,  and  if  they  are  good 
Republicans,*  they  will  not  go  into  the  woods 
until  after  that  time. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  There  is  a  very  large 
class  in  this  Territory  who  are  engaged  annu- 
ally in  lumbering,  and  the  lumbering  interest 
is  a  very  important  one.  It  not  only  benefits 
those  immediately  engaged  in  it,  but  the  ben- 
efits of  that  trade  extend  over  the  whole  Ter- 
ritory, and  the  whole  length  and  breadth  of 
the  land ;  and  in  the  prosecution  of  that  busi- 
ness it  is  absolutely  necessary  that  about  the 
time  tliis  election  is  held,  that  they  should  go 
hundreds  of  miles  away.  I  hope  the  amend- 
ment wiU  not  prevail. 

Gentlemen  have  used  the  term  "  republi- 
can." I  do  not  consider  that  this  Convention 
is  making  provisions  for  Republicans,  but  for 
the  voters  of  the  Territory,  no  matter  which 
way  they  vote. 

The  amendment  was  not  agreed  to. 

Mr.  THOMPSON.  I  move  that  the  com- 
mittee rise  and  report  the  report  back  to  the 
Convention  with  a  recommendation  that  the 
amendments  of  the  commtttee  be  concur- 
red in. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to. 

The  committee  accordingly  rose  and  re- 
ported the  report  with  the  recommendation 
that  the  amendments  of  the  committee  be 
concurred  in. 

Mr.  KING  (at  five  o'clock  and  thirty  min- 
utes) moved  that  the  Convention  adjourn. 

The  motion  was  lost. 

Mr.  CLEGHORN.  I  move  that  the  report 
be  laid  on  the  table. 

The  motion  was  not  agreed  to. 

Mr.  MURPHY.  I  move  that  the  Conven- 
tion adjourn. 

The  motion  was  not  agreed  to. 

Mr.  BATES.  I  move  that  the  Convention 
now  proceed  to  act  upon  the  amendments 
recommended  by  the  committee  of  the 
Whole. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to. 


208 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Thuesdat,  July  80. 


The  several  amendments  were  then  taken 
up  and  disposed  of  as  follows : 

''First  Amendment. — Strike  out  section  twenty- 
two." 

The  amendment  was  concurred  in. 
''Second  Aine7idment. — Section  twenty-three,  line 
six,    strike  out  'elected,'  and  insert  'present,' 
and  insert  the  word   'present'   after   the  word 
'  members '  in  the  ninth  line." 

The  amendment  was  conciured  in. 

Third  Amendment — Section  twenty-seven  after 
the  word  'services,'  insert  'and  travel  such 
compensation  as  shall  be  provided  by  law,'  and 
strike  out  the  balance  of  the  section." 

The  amendment  was  concurred  in. 

"Fourth  Ameiidm^it. — Strike  out  section  thir- 
ty-one." 

Mr.  FOLSOM.  I  hope  that  amendment 
will  not  be  concurred  in.  I  am  in  faVor  of 
the  poor  people  of  the  State  receiving  the  laws 
of  the  land  through  the  newspapers.  There 
is  hardly  a  head  of  a  family  in  the  State  but 
what  lakes  a  weekly  paper.  If  the  laws  are 
printed  in  the  weekly  papers,  a  knowledge  of 
our  laws  will  be  spread  throughout  the  whole 
country.  If  you  print  them  in  a  calf  bound 
volume,  the  poor  people  will  not  be  able  to 
buy  them.  Let  the  German,  the  Sweedc,  the 
Norwegian  and  all  have  the  privilege  of  read- 
ing these  laws,  in  a  cheap  form.  That  is  the 
easiest  and  most  correct  mode  of  dififusing 
this  knowledge, 

Mr.  STANNARD.  The  result  under  this 
section  would  be  that  no  paper  would  publish 
the  laws,  as  they  could  not  afford  to  do  it  for 
the  compensation  proposed. 

The  recommendation  of  the  committee  of 
the  Wbole  was  concurred  in,  and  the  section 
was  stricken  out. 

"Fifth  Am,endment. — Strike  out  section  thirty- 
five,  relating  to  the  militia." 

The  amendment  was  concurred  in. 

"  Sixth  Amendm,ent. — Add  the  following  addi- 
tional section : 

"  Sec.  — .  Divorces  shall  not  be  granted  by  the 
Legislature  in  this  State." 

The  amendment  was  concurred  in. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  I  move  to  amend  the 
additional  section  which  has  just  been  adopted 
by  adding  thereto  the  words,  "  except  in  cases 
•'  not  cognizable  by  the  Courts." 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  hope  the  amendment 
will  not  prevail.    I  cannot  conceive  of  a  case 


which  cannot  come  before  the  Courts.  The 
Legislature,  of  course,  will  pass  such  laws  as 
they  see  fit  upon  the  subject.  They  will  pro- 
vide in  what  cases  divorces  may  be  granted, 
and  in  what  Courts  they  may  be  granted. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  The  only  divorce  biU 
which  passed  the  Legislature  last  winter  was 
a  case,  which,  from  its  peculiar  circumstances, 
could  not  have  been  cognizable  by  the 
Courts. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  There  were  no  Courts  at 
that  time,  and  the  Legislature  granted  the  di- 
vorce, as  there  would  otherwise  have  been 
unreasonable  delay  under  the  circumstances. 

The  amendment  was  not  agreed  to. 

Mr.  CLEGHORN.  I  move  the  foUowing 
as  an  additional  section : 

"  Sec. — .  No  new  bill  shall  be  introduced  into 
either  House  during  the  last  three  days  of  the 
session,  without  the  unanimous  jconsent  of  the 
House  in  which  it  originated." 

The  amendment  was  not  agreed  to. 

Mr.  BILLINGS.  I  move  to  strike  out  of 
section  four  the  words  "  on  the  Tuesday  suc- 
"  ceeding  the  first  Monday  of  October  by  the 
"  qualified  electors  of  the  several  districts." 

My  object  in  moving  the  amendment  is  to 
leave  the  matter  to  the  Legislature  hereafter, 
to  fix  the  time  of  election. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  That  will  obviate  the 
objections  which  have  been  made  to  this  sec- 
tion, and  will  satisfy  all,  so  far  as  the  Consti- 
tution is  concerned. 

I  hope  the  amendment  will  not  prevaiL 
Ever  since  I  have  been  in  the  Territory,  the 
day  of  election  has  been  that  which  is  speci- 
fied in  this  section. 

Mr.  FOSTER.  There  must  be  a  difference 
of  opinion  on  this  matter.  The  idea,  I  think, 
is  a  good  one,  to  leave  it  with  the  Legislature 
to  fix  the  day.  That  will  avoid  any  conflict 
of  opinion  on  that  point  when  we  get  before 
the  people  witli  the  Constitution. 

Another  thing.  If  we  fix  the  day  at  all, 
we  should  have  it  in  a  separate  article,  and 
submit  the  question  to  the  people. 

The  amendment  was  not  agi'ccd  to. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  I  offer  the  following 
section : 

Sec.  —  A  majority  of  all  the  members  elected 
shall  constitute  a  quorm  in  either  branch  of  the 
Legislature." 

Mr.  IIUDSON.  That  provision  is  already 
contained  in  the  eighth  section. 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Fbidat,  July  31. 


203 


Mr.  STAN^NARD.  That  section  says  a 
majority  of  each  House,  and  that  is  the  rea- 
son why  I  want  my  amendment  adopted.  I 
want  a  quorxim  to  consist  of  a  majority  of  all 
the  members  elected,  and  not  a  majority  of 
those  who  happen  to  be  present  I  do  not 
want  a  few  members  to  come  in  and  organ- 
ize the  House  in  the  absence  of  all  the  rest. 
I  cannot  vote  for  a  Constitution  unless  a  pro- 
vision similar  to  mine  is  in  it.  I  insist  that 
a  majority  of  the  members  elected  to  any  de- 
Hberative  body  should  constitute  a  quomm. 
It  is  a  question  which  ought  not  to  be  left 
open  to  the  opinion  of  this  man  or  that,  but 
should  be  fixed  and  certain. 

Mr.  MORGAN.  I  conceive  that  the  word 
"  majority"  means  a  majority  of  the  mem- 
bers sworn  in.  The  section  says,  a  majority 
of  each  House,  not  a  majority  of  those  pres- 
ent. There  can  be  no  other  meaning  at- 
tached to  it,  for  we  firequently  find  ourselves 
without  a  quorum,  which  is,  less  than  a  ma- 
o  rity  of  the  members  sworn  in. 

Mr.  STAN'NAED.  My  amendment  is  de- 
signed to  take  the  place  of  section  twenty- 
two.  It  is  nothing  but  just  and  fair,  I  would 
ask  for  nothing  more.  I  remember  one  in- 
stance last  winter  in  which  the  Speaker  of 
the  House — a  very  able  parliamentarian  too 
— decided  that  nineteen  was  a  majority  of 
thirty-nine  members.  "NVhy?  Because  one 
member  was  not  here  and  another  member 
had  been  excused.  ,  A  precedent  for  such  a 
decision  as  that  carmot  be  fotmd  in  any  work 
upon  parliamentary  law  in  the  United  States 
or  En^and. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  hope  the  amendment 
will  not  prevail.  This  amendment  if  adopted, 
will  allow  a  minority,  by  remaining  out  of 
either  House,  and  refusing  to  be  sworn  in,  to 
compel  the  attendence,  and  constantly  per- 
haps, of  aU  the  other  members — a  case  simi- 
lar to  what  we  saw  at  the  commencemoat  of 
this  Convention. 

The  amendment  was  not  agreed  to. 

Mr.  THOMPSON.  I  move  that  the  rule 
be  so  far  suspended  as  to  allow  the  report  to 
be  referred  to  the  committee  on  Arrangment 
and  Phraseology. 

Mr.  WILSON.  I  hope  that  will  not  b« 
done.  We  have  looked  over  this  report  very 
hastily  and  only  this  afternoon.  It  will  not 
27 


delay  business  at  all  if  we  let  it  lie  over  untfl 
to-morrow. 

Mr.  NORTH.  I  think  the  report  is  in 
much  better  shape  than  if  we  had  been  spend- 
ing three  days  upon  it. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  hope  the  motion  will 
prevail,  for  I  do  not  want  any  more  discussion 
on  this  report 

The  motion  was  agreed  to,  and  the  report 
was  referred  to  the  committee  on  Arrange- 
ment and  Phraseology. 

Then  on  motion  of  Mr.  RUSSELL  (at  six 
o'clock)  the  Convention  adjourned. 


SEVEN-TEENTTH  DAY. 

Fridat,  July  31st,  1857. 
The  Convention  met  at  nine  o'clock,  a.  '». 
The  journal  of  yesterday  was  read  and 
approved. 

THE   ST.   AXTHOKY  DELEGATES. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  rise,  Mr.  President,  to 
a  question  of  privilege.  I  hold  in  my  hand  a 
copy  of  the  St.  Paul  Weekly  Pioneer  <fe  Deny- 
ocrat,  and  the  supplement  to  the  same,  con- 
taining an  account  of  the  proceedings  of  an 
organized  meeting  now  in  session  in  this  city, 
in  the  other  end  of  the  Capitol,  amongst 
which  proceedings  I  find  the  following  pre- 
amble and  resolutions : 

Whkreajs,  There  is  official  evidence,  from  the 
report  of  the  committee  on  Credentials,  that  there 
is  a  majority  of  the  legally  elected  members  to  the 
Constitntional  Convention  who  claim  and  are  en- 
titled to  seats  in  this  Convention ;  and, 

Whebbas,  The  members  ascertained  to  be  legallj 
elected,  from  the  official  docoments  before  this 
Convention,  represent  more  than  sixteen  hundred 
majority  of  the  popular  vote  of  the  Territory ; 
and. 

Whereas,  There  is  now  a  body  of  men  who  have 
taken  possession  of  one  of  the  Halls  of  this  Cap- 
itol and  call  themselves  the  Constitntional  Con- 
vention, without  any  legal  authority  or  right,  al- 
though some  of  those  connected  with  that  assem- 
blage may  be  entitled  to  seats  in  this  Convention, 
tion,  but  who  have  not  seen  proper,  as  yet,  to  pre- 
sent their  credentials,  or  to  attend  the  meetings  of 
this  body,  since  the  regular  adjournment  of  the 
Convention,  on  Monday,  the  13th  instant;  there- 
fore, 

St^ohed,  That  the  assemblage  of  persons  now 
occupying  Representative  Hall  of  this  Capitol  sty- 
ling themselves  the  '  Constitutional  Convention,' 
is  witbont  the  aathority  of  law  or  of  Parliameo- 


210 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Friday,  July  31. 


tary  usage,  and  revolutionary  in  its  character,  and, 
therefore,  should  not  be  recognized  by  the  electors 
of  this  Territory,  nor  by  the  officers  of  the  Gene- 
ral or  Territorial  Government. 

Besolved,  That  a  copy  of  the  above  preamble 
and  resolution,  together  with  a  copy  of  the  report 
of  the  committee  on  Credentials,  be  forwarded  to 
the  President  of  the  United  States,  each  of  the 
heads  of  the  departments  of  the  General  Govern- 
ment, each  of  the  members  of  the  Senate  and 
House  of  Kepresentatives  of  the  United  States, 
and  to  the  Governor,  Secretary,  Marshal,  Libra- 
rian, Auditor  and  Treasurer  of  the  Territory  of 
Minnesota. 

Mr.  President,  under  ordinary  circumstan- 
ces I  should  not  deem  it  the  duty  or  the  pri- 
vilege of  myself,  as  a  member  of  this   Con- 
vention, or  of  any  other  member  of  tliis  Con- 
vention to  notice  either  newspaper  articles 
published  in  regard  to  this  Convention  or  its 
proceedings,  or  tllb  ,doings  of  any  body  of 
citizens  of  the  Territory,  either  organized  or 
unorganized.     But,   Mr.   President,  I   deem 
that  the  proceedings  to  which  I  have  referred, 
are  peculiarly  a  matter  of  privilege  as  relating 
to  this  Convention,  first  from  the  nature  of 
the  assemblage  to  which  I  have  referred,  and 
second,  from  the  peculiar  nature  of  the  pre- 
amble and  resolutions  which  I  have  read.     I 
find  in  this  paper  a  list  of  names  of  the  per- 
sons who  purport  to  be  members  of  that  as- 
semblage, and  amongst  them  I  find  the  fol- 
lowing federal  officers:    the  Secretary  and 
acting  Governor  of  this  Territory ;  one  of  the 
Judges  of  the  Supreme  Court  of  tliis  Terri- 
tory ;  one  of  the  Indian  Agents  of  this  Ter- 
ritory ;  and  one  of  the  Custom  House  Officers 
of  this  Territory.     I  also  find  among  them 
the  names  of  the  following  Territorial  oificers  : 
the  Attorney  General  of  the  Territory,  and 
seven  members  of  the  present  Legislative  As- 
sembly.    In  addition  to  that,  I  find  the  fol- 
lowing ex-Federal  officers  :  one  ex-Governor  ; 
two  cx-Judges  of  the  Supreme  Court  of  tlie 
Territory  ;  one  ex-delegate  to  Congress ;  one 
ex-Custom  House  Officer,  and  one  ex-Land 
Officer ;  besides  all  those  I  find  the  following 
ex-Territorial  officers :  one  ex-Tcrritorial  Trea- 
surer ;  two  ex-Probate  Judges,  and  nine  ex- 
Members  of  the  Legislative  Assembly.     In 
all,  constituting  twenty-six  members,  out  of 
the  fifty-four  who  purport  to  be  members  of 
that  meeting,  representing  every  branch  of  tlie 
Government  of  this  Temtory — the  Execu- 
tive, the  Judicial  and  the  Legislative. 


It  seems  to  me,  therefore,  that  the  assem- 
blage to  which  I  have   alluded,  and  whose 
proceedings   I   propose  to  consider,  possess 
more  than  ordinary  interest.     In  the  second 
place,  the  nature  of  the  proceedings  to  which 
I  have  alluded,  it  seems  to  me,  calls  especial- 
ly for  the  consideration  of  this  Convention. 
Here  is  a  declaration  by  a  body  of  individu- 
als, constituted,  as  I  have  shown,  of  the  va- 
rious Federal  and  Territorial  officers  of  this 
Territory,  to  a  very  gi'cat  extent,  that  this 
Convention  is  here  met  without  the  authority 
of  law  or  parliamentary  usage,  that  it  is  rev- 
olutionary in  its  character,  and  recommend- 
ing that  it  should  not  be  recognized  by  tho 
electors  of  this  Territory,  nor  by  the  ofiiceris 
of  the  general  or  Territorial  Government ;  and 
also  providing  that  a  copy  of  the  preamble 
and  resolutions  shall  be  transmitted  to  the 
officers  of  the  general  government — the  Pres- 
ident and  Heads  of  Departments — to  every 
member  of  Congress,  and  to  the  various  Ter- 
ritorial officers  of   this  Territory.     It  can 
have,  Mr.  President,  but  one  object,  and  that 
is  to  nullify,  so  far  as    it   is    within    the 
power  of  tlie  General  and  Territorial  Govern- 
ments, the  acts  of  the  people  of  the  Territory 
of  Minnesota  assembled  by  their  delegates  in 
this  Convention.     It  seems  to  me  to  indicate 
that  there  is  a  disposition  and  intention  on  the 
part  of  the  national  government  represented 
in  that  meeting  by  officers  appointed  by  the 
Federal  Executive,  to  thwart  and  nullify  the 
action  of  this  Convention  authorized  by  the 
action  of  Congress.     It  is  also  evident  that 
there  is  an  intention  and  disposition  upon  the 
part  of  the  Territorial  officers  of  this  Terri- 
tory, so  far  as  they  are  concerned,  to  nullify 
the  action  of  this  body. 

Now  I  do  not  pj^oposo  to  examine  into  all 
of  the  causes  assigned  by  the  assemblage  of 
persons  to  sustain  the  position  they  have 
taken.  Those  causes  are  various,  and  they 
are  sent  forth  at  large  in  the  speeches  wliich 
accompany  the  preamble  and  resolution,  and 
have  been  more  or  less  treated  on  in  this  Con- 
vention. But  I  find,  sir,  prominent  among 
tho  reasons  which  arc  offered  why  this  Con- 
vention is  without  the  autliority  of  law  or 
parliamentary  usage  and  revolutionary  in  its 
character,  that  there  are  six  members  of  tiiis 
Convention— four  from  the  Third  Council 
District,  and  two  from  tho   Eighth  Council 


MINNESOTA  CONTENTION  DEBATES— Friday,  July  31. 


211 


District, — who  hold  seats  in  this  Convention 
and  participate  in  its  deliberations  vrith- 
out  authority  of  law.  And,  sir,  being  myself 
one  of  those  delegates,  I  propose  to  examine 
a  little  into  this  matter,  and  ascertain  whether 
or  not  the  allegations  made  are  true. 

Mr.  President,  if  this  Convention  is  in  ses- 
sion here  without  authority  of  law,  or  of  par- 
liamentary usage,  and  revolutionary  in  i^ 
character,  it  is  to  be  shown  and  proved  by 
testing  its  Constitution  and  its  proceedings  by 
Bome  law  a«d  by  some  parliamentary  usage. 
Now  I  find  that  upon  this  resolution  which 
I  have  read,  ex-Governor  Gorman  made  the 
following  remarks : 

"  My  object,  in  the  remarks  I  shall  submit  to-day, 
will  be  to  place  before  the  country  the  reasons  for 
our  action  thus  far,  and  to  show,  so  far  as  1  have  a 
knowledge  of  the  facts  and  the  ability,  distinctly 
and  plainly,  why  it  is  that  we  occupy  our  present 
position. 

'  'First.  —The  Congress  of  the  United  States  passed 
an  act,  authorizing  the  people  of  the  Territory  of 
Minnesota  to  form  a  Constitution  and  State  Gov- 
ernment, preparatory  to  their  admission  into  the 
Union  as  a  State.  To  carry  out  that  act,  the  Legis- 
lature at  its  special  session,  called  in  pai-t  for  that 
purpose,  passed  an  act,  in  aid  of  the  Enabling  Act 
of  Congress,  prescribing  how  many  persons  should 
be  elected  as  Delegates  to  the  Constitutional  Con- 
vention. That  act  prescribed  that  there  should  be 
elected  two  persons  for  each  Councillor  and  two 
for  each  Representative.  The  Enabling  Act  pro- 
vided that  there  should  be  elected  tow  Delegates 
for  each  member  of  the  Territorial  Legislature. 
It  has  been  contended  that  under  that  provision, 
we  had  the  right  to  elect  only  tow  for  each  Rep- 
resentative which,  doubling  the  number  of  thirty- 
nine,  would  make  seventy-eight  in  all.  The  Legis- 
lature, at  its  extra  session  in  51ay,  however,  took 
&  different  view  of  the  Enabling  Act,  and  construed 
it,  as  1  have  said,  to  give  us  two  Delegates  for  each 
Representative,  and  two  for  each  Councillor. 

That  either  the  Enabling  Act  of  Congress  or  the 
act  of  the  Territorial  Legislature  is  binding  abso- 
lutely upon  the  people  in  their  sovereign  capacity, 
no  American  Statesman  has,  to  my  knowledge, 
attempted  to  assume.  On  the  contrary  the  author- 
ities all  go  to  show  that  the  Enabling  Act  of  Con- 
gress is  passed  to  give  conformity  and  regtdarity 
to  the  proceeding — to  indicate  the  mode  of  pro- 
cedure. The  act  of  the  Legislature  is  to  give  con- 
formity and  regularity  to  the  elections  and  to 
avoid  anything  like  revolutionary  action  on  the 
part  of  the  people.  Therefore  the  act  of  Congress 
and  the  act  of  the  Territorial  Legislature,  are 
mere  forms — in  the  language  of  Mr.  Buchanan — a 
mere  scaffolding,  which,  when  the  edifice  is  com- 
pleted, is  of  no  further  use." 


Now,  Mr.  President,  I  contend,  in  the  first 
place,  tliat  the  act  of  Congress  authorizing 
the  people  of  the  Territory  of  Minnesota  to 
form  for  themselves  a  Constitution  and  State 
government,  is  binding  upon  the  people.  I 
contend  that  the  Congress  of  the  United  States 
has  the  supreme  power  and  the  supreme  right 
of  controlling  by  legislation,  the  Territories 
of  the  United  States ;  and  I  deny  that  the 
people  of  the  Territory  have  any  legal  right 
to  do  anything  in  contravention  of  the  act  of 
Congress.  I  deny  that  the  people  of  the 
Territory  have  the  right  to  abrogate  the  form 
of  government  which  the  Congress  of  the 
United  States  has  seen  fit  to  provide  for 
them,  without  the  consent  of  Congress ;  and 
here  I  must,  of  course,  be  understood  as 
meaning  all  legal  rights  under  the  Constitu- 
tion and  laws  of  the  United  SCites ;  for  there 
is  a  right  greater  and  above  all  Constitutions 
and  all  laws — the  right  of  revolution.  But, 
Mr,  President,  may  the  time  be  far  distant 
when  the  people  of  Minnesota  shall  feel  the 
necessity  of  appealing  to  that  ultimate  resort. 

I  say,  then,  that  the  Enabling  Act  of  Con- 
gress is  binding  upon  the  people  of  this  Ter- 
ritory. But,  taking  the  ground  assimied  by 
Ex-Governor  Gorman,  that  the  only  object  of 
that  act  was  to  give  conformity  and  regular- 
ity to  the  elections,  and  to  avoid  anything 
Hke  revolutionary  acts  upon  the  part  of  the 
people — I  say,  taking  that  groimd,  we  are  to 
determine  whether  or  not  this  body  is  in  ses- 
sion here  without  authority  of  law  or  parlia- 
mentary usage;  and  is  a  revolutionary  body, 
by  ascertaining  whether  or  not  it  has  con- 
formed to  the  provisions  of  the  Enabling  Act 
of  Congress,  under  which  high  call  this  Con- 
vention is  now  in  session,  pursuing  its  labors. 

And  here  let  me  remark  that  Ex-Governor 
GoRMAx  has  not  quoted  the  Act  as  it  passed 
Congress,  and  in  a  very  material  respect.  Says 
the  Ex-Governor,  "the  Enabling  Act  pro- 
vides that  there  should  be  elected  two  dele- 
gates for  each  memher  of  the  Territorial  Le- 
gislature." Now,  the  Act  of  Congress  referred 
to  there,  is  as  follows : 

"  That  on  the  first  Monday  in  June  next,  the 
legal  voters  in  each  representative  district,  then 
existing  within  the  limits  of  the  proposed  State, 
are  hereby  authorized  to  elect  two  delegat€3  for 
each  representative  to  which  said  district  may  be 
entitled  according  to  the  apportionment  for  repre- 
sentatives to  the  Territorial  Legislature. 


212 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Friday,  July  81. 


I  propose,  first,  to  inquire  in  what  sense 
the  term  "  representative,"  in  the  Enabling 
Act,  is  used — in  other  words,  what  construc- 
tion is  to  be  given  to  that  Act,  by  this  Con- 
vention? The  word  "representative,"  in  its 
general  signification,  includes  any  agent  or 
deputy  of  another  or  others,  standing  in  his 
or  their  place,  and  invested  with  his  or  their 
authority.  The  term  has,  however,  in  the 
United  States,  acquired  a  technical  significa- 
tion, which  indicates  a  member  of  the  lower 
or  more  popular  branch  of  the  Congress  of 
the  United  States,  and  of  the  Legislative  As- 
semblies of  the  different  States  and  Territo- 
ries. 

l^ow,  Mr.  President,  it  has  been  contended 
by  some — and  I  know  not  but  what  it  is  con- 
tended by  some  members  of  this  Convention, 
that  the  term  "representative,"  as  here  used, 
does  include,  not  only  "  representatives,"  but 
♦'  councillors."  That  such  a  construction  has 
been  given  to  it,  lam  well  aware;  butthatthat 
construction  has  the  support  of  either  reason 
or  analogy,  I  deny,  In  the  first  place  it  is 
pot  reasonable  to  suppose  that  Congress  in- 
tended to  include  in  the  term  "  representa- 
tive," representatives  and  councillors.  The 
House  of  Representatives  in  every  legislative 
body  is  presumed  to,  and  does  contain  those 
agents  or  deputies  of  the  people,  who  are  sent 
from  the  smallest  local  divisions  of  the  Terri- 
tory to  be  represented ;  and  more  immediately 
represent  the  popular  will  of  the  people,  the 
number  of  representatives  being  larger  than 
the  number  of  members  of  the  upper  branch. 
The  districts  are  proportionately  smaller,  and 
in  that  way  the  voice  of  the  people  is  more 
popularly  represented.  And  it  is  reasonable 
to  suppose  that  the  Congress  of  the  United 
States,  in  establishing  a  basis  for  the  election 
of  delegates  to  this  Convention,  whereby  the 
people  of  the  Territory  of  Minnesota  were  to 
frame  for  themselves  a  Constitution  and  State 
Government,  that  it  would  be  their  intention 
and  desire  to  have  those  delegates  elected  in 
the  most  popular  manner. 

Now,  it  is  well  known,  an^  especially  in 
this  Territory,  does  this  principle  apply — that 
while  the  members  of  the  House  of  Repre- 
sentatives come  from  small  districts — not  rep- 
resenting, severally  as  could  be  desired,  the 
will  of  the  people  throughout  the  Territory — 
yet  that  they  do  so  to  a  much  greater  extent 


than  does  the  House,  called  the  Council.  As 
an  example  I  will  point  to  the  upper  subdivis- 
ion of  the  first  council  district,  which  sends 
to  the  House  of  Representatives  one  member, 
but  at  the  same  time  sends  one  councillor. 
Also  the  western  subdivision  of  the  ninth 
council  district — the  county  of  Olmsted — 
which,  while  it  sends  one  representative,  also 
sends  one  councillor.  On  the  other  hand, 
the  second  coimcil  district,  and  the  eleventh 
council  district  of  this  Territory,  wliile  they 
each  send  five  representatives,  send  each  but 
one  councillor.  Now,  Mr.  President,  it  is  ob- 
vious to  every  one  that  a  basis  of  that  nature 
would  be  the  furtherest  from  the  popular 
basis.  Then,  I  say  it  is  not  reasonable  to 
suppose  that  Congress  intended  to  include  in 
the  term  "  representative,"  representative  and 
councillor. 

In  the  second  place  a  construction  which 
includes  in  the  term  "  representative,"  also 
the  term  "  councillor,"  has  not  the  support  of 
analogy.  I  undertake  to  say,  without  the 
fear  of  successful  contradiction,  that  in  no 
Act  of  Congress,  and  in  no  Act  of  any  Legis- 
lative body,  can  the  term  be  found  with  the 
construction  that  has  been  attempted  to  be 
•given  to  it  here.  On  the  other  hand,  I  find 
numerous  instances  analogous  to  this,  where 
the  distinction  has  been  made.  I  refer,  as 
an  example,  to  section  first  of  the  second 
Article  of  the  Constitution  of  the  United 
States,  wherein  provision  is  made  for  the  ap- 
pointment of  elector  of  President,  wliich  is  as 
follows : 

"Each  State  shall  appoint  in  such  manner  as 
the  Legislature  thereof  shall  direct,  a  number  of 
Electors,  equal  to  the  whole  number  of  Senators 
and  Representatives  to  which  a  State  may  be  enti- 
tled in  Congress,  Ac." 

Now,  the  intention  of  that  article  was  not 
only  to  include  the  popular  representation  of 
the  people  of  the  State,  but  also  to  include 
the  idea  of  a  representation  of  the  State  sove- 
reignty. It  was  there  the  intention  of  the 
framers  of  the  Constitution  to  imite  those  two 
principles ;  and  yet  they  did  not  use  the 
word  "  Representatives  in  Congress."  and 
thereby  include  Representatives  and  Senators, 
but  they  used  the  words  "  Senators  and 
Representatives. 

It  is  provided  in  section  four  of  the  Organic 
Act  of  the  Territory,  that — 
"The  Legislative  power  and  authority  of«aii\ 


MINNESOTA  C0N\T:NTI0N  DEBATES— Fp.idat,  July  31. 


113 


Territory  shall  be  vested  in  the  Goremor  and  Leg- 
islative Assemblv.  The  Legislative  Assembly 
Bhall  consist  of  a  Senate  and  House  of  Represent- 
atives. The  Council  shall  consist  of  nine  members 
having  the  qualifications  of  voters  as  hereinafter 
prescribed,  whose  term  of  service  shall  continue 
two  years.  The  House  of  Representatives  shall 
at  its  first  session  consist  of  eighteen  members 
possessing  the  same  qualifications  as  prescribed  for 
members  of  the  Council,  and  whose  term  of  serv- 
ice shall  continue  one  year.  The  number  of 
the  Councillors  and  Representatives  may  be  in- 
creased by  the  Legislative  Assembly  from  time  to 
time,  in  proportion  to  the  increase  of  population, 
Provided,  the  whole  number  shall  never  ex- 
ceed fifteen  Councilors,  and  thirty-nine  Rep- 
sentatives." 

Such  is  the  provision  made  by  Congress 
for  the  election  of  Councillors  and  Represen- 
tatives in  the  Territorial  Le^slattire.  It  is  a 
provision  which  Congress  must  be  supposed 
to  have  had  in  view  when  they  passed  the 
Enabling  Act,  and  when  they  used  the  term 
*'  representative."  In  the  fourth  section  of 
the  Enabling  Act,  we  find  the  following 
provision : 

"That  in  the  event  said  Convention  shall  de- 
cide in  favor  of  the  immediate  admission  of  the 
of  the  proposed  State  into  the  Union,  it  shall  be 
the  duty  of  the  United  States  Marshal  for  said 
Territory  to  proceed  to  take  a  census  or  enumera- 
tion of  the  inhabitants  within  the  proposed  State, 
under  such  rules  and  regulations  as  shall  be  pre- 
scribed by  the  Secretary  of  the  Interior,  with  the 
view  of  a.scertaining  the  number  of  Jiepresenta- 
tives  to  which  said  State  may  be  entitled  in  the 
Congress  of  the  United  States;  and  said  State 
shall  be  entitled  to  one  Jiepreaentative,  and  such 
additional  Jiepresentaiives  as  the  population  of  the 
Btate  shall,  according  to  the  census,  show  it  would 
be  entitled  to  according  to  the  present  ratio  of 
representation." 

Now  it  must  be  evident  to  the  mind  of 
every  member  of  this  Convention,  that  Con- 
gress in  tlie  section  did  not  include  in  the 
term  "  Representative,"  also  the  term  "  Sen- 
ator." for  it  provides  that  "  said  State  shall  be 
entitled  to  one  Representative  "  at  any  rate, 
and  we  are  aware  that  every  State  is  entitled 
to  two  Senators. 

The  term  "Representative"  in  this  section 
must  therefore  be  used  in  its  technical  sense. 
Now  is  it  fair  and  reasonable  to  suppose  that 
the  Congress  of  the  United  States,  in  the 
same  act,  when  speaking  of  the  Territorial 
Legislature  of  Minnesota,  composed  of  Coun- 
cillors and  Representatives  would  include  in 
the  term  "  Representative  "  members  of  both 


branches  of  the  Legislative  Assembly,  and 
when  speaking  of  the  Congress  of  the  United 
States,  consisting  of  Senators  and  Represen- 
tatives, would  use  the  term  "  Representative  " 
in  another  signification  ?  I  therefore  say  that 
the  construction  attempted  to  be  given  to  the 
terms  "  Representative  "  in  the  Enabling  Act, 
has  not  the  support  of  analogy. 

Then,  that  point  being  gained,  the  Enabling 
Act  of  Congress  provided  for  the  election  in 
each  representative  district  in  this  Territory 
of  two  Delegates  for  each  Representative  to 
which  that  district  was  entitled.  Now  the 
Territory  of  Minnesota,  at  the  time  the  elec- 
tion took  place,  was  divided  into  certain 
districts,  which  districts  elected  each  one  or 
more  Representatives  to  the  Territorial  Legis- 
lature, and  although  the  districts  may  be 
called,  in  some  instances,  council  districts, 
yet  they  are  in  fact  representative  districts. 
In  other  words  they  are  the  districts  of  the 
Territory,  electing  and  sending  to  the  Terri- 
torial Legislature,  by  themselves,  one  or  more 
Representatives. 

"We  also  find,  Mr.  President,  that  at  the 
special  session  of  the  Territorial  Assembly  of 
this  Tenitory,  last  held,  upon  the  recom- 
mendation of  the  Governor  of  this  Territory, 
the  Legislative  Assembly  'passed  an  act  in 
aid  of  the  Act  of  Congress ;  and  by  that  act 
amongst  pother  things,  it  was  provided  that 
upon  the  same  day  provided  for  by  Congress, 
an  election  shall  be  held  in  the  various  pre- 
cincts of  the  Territory  for  the  purpose  of  the 
election  of  certain  delegates ;  and  it  is  specially 
provided  in  that  act,  that  each  Council  district 
in  the  Territory  shall  elect  two  Delegates  for 
each  Gowicillor,  and  that  each  representative 
district  shall  elect  two  Delegates  for  each 
Representative.  Now,  so  far  as  the  act  of  the 
Legislature  contravenes  the  act  of  Congress, 
I  contend  that  it  is  simply  inoperative.  So 
far  as  it  is  in  the  aid  of  the  act  of  Congress, 
I  contend  that  it  has  a  certain  degree  of  va- 
hdity  and  binding  force. 

Now,  I  contend,  Mr.  Presidest,  that  there 
was  provision  made  by  law  for  the  election  of 
two  classes  of  Delegates.  In  the  first  place  it 
was  provided  that  each  representative  district 
should  elect  two  Delegates  for  each  Represen- 
tative in  accordance  with  the  act  of  Congress, 
that  the  authority  vested  in  the  people  to  elect 
those  Delegates  emanated  fi:x)m  the  supreme 


114 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Feiday,  July  31. 


power  of  the  land  to  whom  alone  it  belongs 
to  provide  for  the  abrogation  of  Territorial 
Governments,  and  the  establishment  of  any- 
other  fonn  of  government,  and  that  the 
authority  to  elect  those  Delegates,  emanating 
from  the  supreme  power,  vested  in  those  del- 
egates the  authority  of  the  principal.  On  the 
other  hand,  whatever  right  the  Legislature  of 
the  Territory  might  have  had  to  authorize  the 
election  of  Delegates,  of  course  the  Delegates 
elected  under  that  authority,  would  possess 
no  greater  authority  than  the  principal.  But 
without  discussing  or  attempting  to  define  the 
difference  between  the  two  authorities,  I  con- 
tend that  there  is  a  difference,  and  a  radical 
and  material  difference ;  that  while  the  Con- 
vention would  be  bound  to  receive  the  Dele- 
gates elected  by  virtue  of  the  provisions  of 
the  act  of  Congress,  it  would  be  a  matter 
entirely  within  their  discretion  to  admit  or 
reject  the  others.  Therefore,  I  say  that  there 
not  only  was  a  distinction  between  those  two 
classes  of  Delegates,  but  there  was  an  abso- 
lute necessity  that  that  distinction  should  be 
made  and  kept  by  the  voters  that  undertook 
to  elect  Delegates,  and  by  all  the  officers  of 
the  Territorial  Government  who  were  to 
return  those  elections,  in  order  that  this  Con- 
vention might  have  before  them  all  matters 
necessary  for  their  final  determination. 

Now,  Mr.  Pbesident,  it  is  contended  by 
the  gentleman  who  spoke  to  the  preamble  and 
resolution  which  I  have  referred  to,  that  there 
are  sitting  in  this  body  and  deliberating 
therein,  six  members  who  received  certificates 
from  the  proper  oflBccrs  and  took  their  seats 
in  this  body  upon  the  ground  that  although 
they  did  not  receive  a  majority  of  the  whole 
number  of  votes  cast  in  their  districts,  yet 
that  they  did  receive  a  majority  of  the  votes 
cast  for  the  particular  office  which  they 
claimed  to  hold,  and  as  I  observed  before, 
four  of  those  Delegates  hold  seats  in  this 
Convention  to  represent  the  St.  Anthony 
council  and  representative  district. 

I  propose,  now,  Mr.  PKESiDE>rT,  to  go  back 
a  little  and  examine  one  of  the  provisions  of 
the  Enabling  Act,  which  reads  as  follows,  in 
section  three: 

"  Which  election  slmll  be  held  and  conducted, 
and  the  returns  made,  in  all  respects  in  conformity 
with  the  laws  of  said  Territory  regulatingtbe  elec- 
tion of  representatives." 


It  is  here  specially  pointed  out  by  Congress, 
that  the  election  of  those  Delegates,  and  the 
returns  of  the  elections,  are  to  conform  in 
eveiy  respect  to  the  provisions  of  the  laws  of 
this  Territory  regulating  the  election  of  Rep- 
resentatives. I  propose  now  to  examine  those 
laws ;  and  the  first  point  to  which  I  call  the 
attention  of  the  Convention,  is  to  the  provis- 
ion regulating  the  action  of  voters  in  casting 
their  votes':  section  thirteen  of  page  forty- 
seven  of  the  statutes  of  Miimesota,  which 
provides  as  follows : 

"  Every  elector  shall  vote  by  ballot,  and  each 
person  oUering  to  vote  shall  deliver  his  ballot  to 
one  of  the  judges  of  election  in  presence  of  the 
Board.  The  ballots  shall  be  a  paper  ticket  which 
shall  contain,  written  or  printed,  or  partly  written 
or  partly  printed,  the  names  of  the  persons  for 
whom  the  elector  intends  to  vote,  and  shall  desig- 
nate the  oflSce  to  which  each  person  so  named  is 
intended  by  him  to  be  chosen ;  but  no  ballot  shall 
contain  a  greater  number  of  names  of  persons 
designated  to  any  office  than  there  are  persons  to 
be  chosen  at  the  election  to  fill  such  office. 

I  next  read  section  thirty  of  the  same  chap- 
ter, which  prescribes  the  duties  of  the 
Judges  of  Election : 

"The  ballots  and  poll  lists  agreeing  or  being  made 
to  agree,  the  board  shall  then  proceed  to  count 
and  ascertain  the  number  of  votes  cast,  and  the 
clerks  shall  set  down  in  their  poll  books  the  names 
of  every  person  voted  for,  written  at  full  length, 
the  office  for  which  such  person  received  such 
votes,  and  the  number  he  did  receive,  the  number 
being  expressed  at  full  length,  &c." 

Section  twenty-three  of  the  same  chapter 
provides : 

"On  the  twentieth  day  after  the  close  of  any 
election,  or  sooner,  if  all  the  returns  be  received, 
the  Clerk  of  the  Board  of  County  Commissioners, 
taking  to  his  assistance  two  Justices  of  the  Peace 
of  the  County,  shall  proceed  to  open  said  returns, 
and  to  make  abstracts  of  the  votes  in  the  following 

manner,  &c. And  it  shall  be  the  duty  of  the 

said  Clerk  of  County  Commissioners  immediately 
to  make  out  a  certificate  of  election  to  each  person 
having  the  highest  number  of  votes  for  members 
of  the  Legislative  Assembly,  County  and  Precinct 
Ofiicers  respectively,  and  to  deliver  said  certificate 
to  the  person  entitled  to  it,  on  his  making  applica- 
tion to  the  Clerk  at  his  office." 

I  next  read  section  forty-eight,  of  the  same 
chapter : 

"  In  all  elections  for  the  choice  of  any  officer.s, 
unless  it  is  otherwise  exprcsslj-  provided,  the  per- 
son having  the  highest  number  of  votes  for  any 
office  shall  be  deemed  to  have  been  elected  to  that 
office." 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Fbiday,  July  SI. 


315 


"The  Clerk  of  the  Board  of  County  Commis- 
sioners and  Register  of  Deeds,  as  aforesaid,  shall 
not  construe  the  statutes  concerning  the  opening 
of  the  election  returns,  so  as  to  decide  all  matters 
of  law  and  facts  themselves;  but  the  Clerk  and 
Register  aforesaid,  and  the  two  Justices  thej-  shall 
call  to  their  assistance,  shall  constitute  a  Board,  a 
majority  of  whom  shall  decide  all  matters  of  dis- 
agreement ;  and  the  said  Board  shall  disregard 
technicalities  and  misspelling  or  abbreviations  of 
the  names  of  candidates  for  office,  if  it  can  be  de- 
termined from  such  votes  for  whom  they  were  in- 
tended." 

Section  forty-three,  of  the  same  chapter, 
provides : 

"Xo  returns  shall  be  refused  by  any  Clerk  of 
the  Board  of  County  Commissioners,  for  the  rea- 
son that  the  same  may  be  returned  and  delivered 
to  him  in  any  other  than  the  manner  directed  in 
this  chapter ;  nor  shall  he  refuse  to  include"  any 
returns  in  his  estimate  of  votes  for  any  informal- 
ity in  holding  any  election  or  making  returns 
thereof;  but  all  returns  shall  be  received  and  the 
votes  canvassed  by  such  clerks,  and  a  certificate 
given  to  the  person  or  persons  who  may,  by^uch 
returns,  have  the  greatest  number  of  votes." 

Now,  Mr.  President,  we  have  in  the  first 
place  a  provision  of  law  requiring  that  each 
voter  should  designate  upon  his  ballot  tlie 
particular  office  for  which  he  intended  to  de- 
signate the  particular  person.  We  have  a 
provision  also  that  no  ballot  shall  contain  the 
names  of  a  greater  number  of  persons  for  any 
office  than  there  are  to  be  elected  to  that 
office.  In  the  second  place  we  have  a  provi- 
sion of  statute  requiring  the  Judges  of  Elec- 
tion and  the  Clerks  of  Election,  in  the  returns 
which  are  to  be  made  to  the  Registers  of 
Deeds  of  the  counties,  to  designate  in  wri- 
ting, in  full,  the  names  of  each  person  voted 
for,  arul  the  office  for  which  he  was  voted  for. 
In  the  next  place,  we  find  a  provision  that 
the  canvassing  board  shall  be  made  up  of  the 
Register  of  Deeds  and  two  Justices  of  the 
Peace  of  the  coimty,  and  that  it  shall  be  the 
duty  of  that  board  to  pass  upon  all  questions 
of  law  and  fact  which  come  before  them  in 
their  canvass ;  and  we  find  that  it  is  the  duty 
of  the  Register  of  Deeds  to  issue  certificates 
of  election  to  those  persons  found  h/  this 
hoard  of  canvassers  to  have  received  the  high- 
est number  of  votes  for  any  particular  office. 

Now,  Mr.  President,  I  propose  to  examine 
and  ascertain  whether  or  not  the  four  dele- 
gates in  this  Convention  who  represent  the 
third  Council  District  and  the  Representative 


District  comprising  the  same,  hold  seats  in 
this  Convention  in  conformity  to  law.  In  the 
first  place  then,  the  delegates  from  St.  An- 
thony hold  their  seats  in  this  Convention  by 
virtue  of  having  presented  to  this  Convention 
certificates  of  election,  issued  in  due  form  of 
law  by  the  proper  officer  and  under  the  seal 
of  the  proper  county.  I  propose,  so  far  as  I 
discuss  further  points,  to  take  such  evidence 
as  I  find  in  the  speeches  and  in  the  proceed- 
ings to  which  I  have  referred,  and  in  reply  to 
which  I  am  speaking.  I  fijid  in  the  proceed- 
ings of  the  public  meeting  to  which  I  have 
alluded  the  following,  being  a  part  of  the  re- 
port of  a  committee  on  credentials : 

"Tour  committee  would  further  state  that  tho 
following  certified  copy  of  an  abstract  of  the  vote 
polled  in  the  Third  Council  District,  upon  which 
Messrs.  B.  B.  Meekee,  Wm.  M.  Lashells,  C.  A. 
TcTTLE,  and  C.  L.  Chase,  claim  to  be  duly  elected, 
was  referred  to  the  committee  for  examination,  viz : 

"At  an  election  held  at  the  City  Council  Room, 
in  the  city  of  St.  Anthony,  in  St.  Anthony  Pre- 
cinct, in  the  county  of  Hennepin,  and  Territory  of 
Minnesota,  on  the  first  day  of  June,  1857,  the  fol- 
lowing named  persons  received  the  number  of 
votes  annexed  to  their  respective  names,  for  the 
following  described  offices,  to  wit : 

"B.  B.  Meeker  received  for  delegate  to  the 
Constitutional  Convention,  five  hundred  and  twen- 
ty-four votes. 

"  Samuel  Staxchfield  received  for  delegate  to 
the  Constitutional  Convention,  four  hundred  and 
ninety-five  votes. 

"Richard  Fewek  received  for  delegate  to  the 
Constitutional  Convention,  four  hundred  and  nine- 
ty-six votes. 

"William  M.  Lashells  received  for  delegate  to 
the  Constitutional  Convention,  four  hundred  and 
ninety-seven  votes. 

"  C.  L.  Chase  received  for  delegate  to  the  Con- 
stitutional Convention,  five  hundred  and  twen^- 
one  votes. 

"  C.  A.  TuTTLE  received  for  delegate  to  the  Con- 
stitutional Convention,  five  hundred  and  nine 
votes. 

"S.  W.  PuTXAM  received  for  delegate  to  the 
Constitutional  Convention,  from  the  Council  Dis- 
trict, four  hundred  and  ninety -one  votes. 

"J.  H.  MrRPHT  received  for  delegate  to  the  Con- 
stitutional Convention,  from  the  council  district, 
four  hundred  and  ninety-six  votes. 

"  D.  A.  Secombe  received  for  delegate  to  the  Con- 
stitutional Convention,  from  the  representative 
district,  four  hundred  and  seventy-two  votes. 

Section  forty-nine,  of  the  same  chapter, 
says: 

"  D.  M.  Hall  received  for  delegate  to  the  Consti- 
tutional Convention,  from  the  representative  di»- 


216 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Friday,  July  3J. 


trict  four  hundred  and  eighty-five  votes. 

"  L.  C.  Walker  received  for  delegate  to  the  Con- 
stitutional Convention,  from  the  representative 
district,  five  hundred  and  three  votes. 

"P.  WixELL  received  for  delegate  to  the  Consti- 
tutional Convention,  from  the  representative  dis- 
trict, five  hundred  and  twelve  votes. 

"  WofELL  received  for  delegate  to  the  Constitu- 
tional Convention,  from  the  representative  dis- 
trict, two  votes. 

"  Lashells  received  for  delegate  to  the  Constitu- 
tional Convention,  from  the  representative  district, 
two  votes. 

"  0.  Shasse  received  for  delegate  to  the  Constitu- 
tional Convention,  from  the  representative  district> 
one  vote. 

"F.  FuKBRreceived  for  delegate  to  the  Constitu- 
tional Convention  from  the  representative  district, 
one  vote. 

•'JoHX  Wensinger  received  for  delegate  to  the 
Constitutional  Convention  one  vote. 

"  H.  WiNELLS  received  for  delegate  to  the  Consti- 
tutional Convention,  one  vote. 

"  Walker  received  for  delegate  to  the  Constitu- 
tional Convention,  one  vote. 

"Some  White  Man  received  for  delegate  to  the 
Constitutional  Convention,  one  vote. 

"  PcTNAM  received  for  delegate  to  the  Constitu- 
tional Convention,  one  vote. 

"  Certified  by  us,  James  B.  Gilbert,  Moses  W.- 
Getchell,  Stephen  Cobb,  Judges  of  election. 

"  Attest :  H.  B.  Taylor,  Dax.  M.  Demmon,  Clerks 
of  election. 

"  Office  of  Register  of  Dbeds,  ) 
Hennepin  County,  M.  T.      \ 

"  I  certify  that  the  above  written  is  a  full,  true 
and  accurate  copy  of  the  original,  as  it  appears  on 
file  at  this  office. 

"  GEO,  W.  CHOWEN, 
"Dep.  Reg.  Deeds,  Hennepin  Co.,  M.  T. 

"Minneapolis,  June  15,  1857.- 

I  next  read  a  certified  copy  of  the  abstract 
of  the  Canvassing  Board : 
"  For  Delegates  to  the  Constitutional  Convention  :\^ 

"B.  B.  Meeker  received 524  votes. 

Samuel  fc-TANcmiELD  received 495     " 

Richard  Fewer  received 496     " 

Wm.  Lashalls  received 497      " 

C.  A.  TuTTLB  received 509      " 

C.  L.  CuASE  received 521     " 

"  For  Delegates  to  Constitutional  Convention,  from 
Council  District : 

"  J.  U.  Murphy  received 496  votes. 

B.  W.  Putnam  received 491      " 

"  For  Delegates  to  Constitutional  Contention,  from 

Bepresentatine  DistHot : 
"  D,  A.  Sbcombk  received 472  votes. 

D.  M.  Hall  received 485     " 

L.  C.  Walker  received 503      " 

P.  WiNELL  received 512     " 

"  This  sheet  contains  an  abstract  of  the  votes 
returned  from  the  St.  Anthony  precinct,  as  being 
cast  for  delegates  to  the  Constitutional  Conven- 
tion, at  on  election  there  held  on  the  first  day  of 


June,  1857.  The  Board  of  Canvassers  are  unani- 
mously of  the  opinion  that  the  votes  cast  for  dele- 
gates to  said  Convention,  without  designation  of 
either  Council  or  Representative  District,  could 
not  legally  be  counted  by  them;  and  they  there- 
fore determine  that  J.  H.  Murphy  and  S.  W.  Put- 
nam, arc  entitled  to  certificates  of  election,  as  hav- 
ing received  the  highest  number  of  votes  cast  for' 
delegates  to  the  Constitutional  Convention,  from 
the  Council  District,  and  that  D.  A.  Secombe,  D* 
M.  Hall,  L.  C.  Walker  and  P.  Winell,  are  en- 
titled to  certificates  of  election,  as  having  received 
the  highest  number  of  votes  for  delegates  to  the 
said  Convention  from  the  Representative  District. 

"  [Signed]         JOHN  C.  McCAIN,  )  Justices  of 
E.  8.  JONES.  i      Peace. 

"  Attest :  C.  G.  Ames.  Clerk  Board  of  Commission- 
ers. 

"  Hennepin  County,  M.  T.,  June  10th,  1857." 

Now,  Mr.  President,  I  claim  that  tlie  pro- 
ceedings in  regard  to  the  canvassing,  and  in 
regard  to  the  issuing  of  certificates  of  election 
to  those  members  were  in  all  respects  in  con- 
formity with  the  provisions  of  the  law,  and 
that  any  other  course,  had  it  been  taken  by 
either  of  the  oiBcers  would  have  been  illegal. 
I  claim  that  there  were  two  classes  of  dele- 
gates to  be  elected,  that  those  classes  of  del-- 
gates  were  to  be  elected  by  virtue  of  two 
authorities,  and  that  there  was  a  radical  dif- 
ference in  the  nature  of  the  office  to  which 
they  were  elected,  that  it  was  the  duty  of 
every  voter  to  designate  the  particular  oflSce 
for  which  he  intended  to  designate  each  man 
he  voted  for ;  that  it  was  the  duty  of  all  the 
the  judges  of  election  to  preserve  that  dis^ 
tinction ;  that  it  \^as  the  duty  of  the  can- 
vassers to  preserve  the  same  distinction ;  and 
that  had  they  done  in  any  other  way  they 
would  have  palpably  violated  the  law. 

Now,  I  propose,  in  addition  to  this,  to 
show  that  in  this  particular  instance  not  only 
was  it  the  law,  but  that  the  Democratic  party 
of  St.  Anthony  knew  it  was  the  law,  and  pre- 
viously to  the  election,  and  subsequent  to  tho 
election  so  contended.  I  read  first  from  tho 
St.  Anthony  Express  of  May  16,  1857,  the 
only  "  Democratic"  paper  in  the  county  of 
Hennepin,  and  the  accredited  organ  of  the 
party,  "  Suggestions  in  view  of  tho  Coming 
Election." 

"  It  being  the  universally  received  construction 
in  all  parts  of  the  Territory,  of  the  Enabling  Act, 
at  least  for  the  purposes  of  this  canvass,  that  each 
precinct  is  entitled  to  double  the  number  of  Dele- 
gates in  the  Conveation  which  it  has  both  of  Rep- 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Friday,  July  31. 


2ir 


reeentatives  and  Conncillors  in  the  Legislature, 
St.  Anthony  should  make  her  nominations  and 
elections  accordingly  ;  else  she  might  fail  of  hav- 
ing her  due  representation.  Certainly  such  would 
be  the  case  should  she  only  choose  Representa- 
tive Delegates,  while  other  precincts  choose  Coun- 
tillor  Delegates  in  addition,  and  also  secured  seats 
for  them.  At  the  same  time  it  should  be  borne  in 
mind  that  the  Convention,  like  any  other  legisla- 
tive [body],  will  decide  the  number,  as  well  as 
judge  of  the  qualifications  of  its  own  members ; 
and  that  when  assembled  it  may  take  it  upon  itself 
to  construe  the  Enabling  Act,  and  to  suit  its  own 
uotion,  caprice  or  convenience,  without  the  re- 
motest reference  to  what  the  people  have  thought  or 
done  in  the  premises.  The  Convention,  as  re- 
gards its  rules  of  action  or  its  organization,  will  be 
entirely  irresponsible ;  and  if  it  should  hold  that 
only  Representative  Delegates  should  be  admitted 
to  seats,  the  Councillor  Delegates  would  be  com- 
pelled to  retire.  A  thousand  certificates  of  elec- 
tion, signed  by  a  thousand  inspectors  of  election 
would  not  avail  them.  Would  it  not  then  be 
the  part  of  wisdom  to  prepare  for,  or  guard  against 
whatever  may  happen  ?  Would  it  not  be  the  part 
of  wisdom  and  prevent  misunderstanding  aud 
embarrassment,  to  designate  or  distinguish  in 
some  simple,  plain  manner  the  two  classes  of  Del- 
egates, either  as  Representative  or  Councillor,  on 
the  tickets  themselves  ?  After  such  a  precaution, 
it  would  be  known  who  must  retire,  should  the 
Convention  as  is  not  at  all  improbable,  put  a  con- 
struction upon  the  Enabling  Act  difiering  from  the 
popular  construction.  And  thus  much  time  and 
contention  and  many  heart-burnings  might  b6 
•saved." 

In  the  same  paper  of  May  twenty-thirdj 
previous  to  the  election,  it  contained  an  article 
entitled  "Doings  of  the  Democratic  Nomi- 
"  nating  Convention."    It  is  as  follows : 

"  Meeting  called  to  order  by  J.  B.  Gilbert,  Esq. 

"  Chose  R.  L.  Joice  President,  and  J.  S.  Dem- 
mon  Secretary. 

"The  name  of  Delegates  were  then  called,  and 
all  appeared  but  Mr.  Cassitt  in  First  Ward,  James 
Holmes  in  Second  Ward,  and  J.  A.  Lennon  in 
Third  Ward.  Said  vacancies  hlled  by  substituting 
Mulligan  for  Cassitt,  Lochran  for  HolmeSj  and 
Endy  for  Lennon. 

"  The  proceedings  of  the  last  meeting  was  then 
read. 

"  On  motion  of  Mr.  Gilbert,  the  Convention 
then  proceeded  to  nominate  candidates  to  the  Con- 
stitutional Convention  by  ballot. 

"  On  motion  of  Mr.  Lochran,  it  was  voted  to 
proceed  to  nominate  singly. 

"  On  motion  of  J.  B.  Gilbert,  the  first  ballot  to 
be  considered  informal. 

"  On  motion  of  Mr.  Lochran,  voted  that  the  first 
two  nominated  shall  be  candidates  at  large. 

"  Whereupon,  B.  B.  Meeker,  Wm.  Lochran,  R. 
28 


Fewer,  S.  Rtanchfield,  La  Schell  and  C.  A.  Tuttle 
were  imanimously  nominated. 

"J.  S.  Demmon  Secretary/' 

And  on  the  same  day  is  published  at  the 
head  of  its  columns : 

"DEMOCRATIC  NOMIXATIOXS. 

DELEGATES  TO  THE  COXSTITUTIOXAL  COXVEXTIOXi 

Delegates  at  Large. 

B.  B.  Meeker.  William  Lochkax. 

District  Ddegatea. 

RicHAED  Fewer.  Samuel  Staxchfield. 

W.  M.  La  Schell.  C.  A.  Tcttle." 

I  would  here  state  that  subsequent  to  Jhe 
nomination,  and  before  the  election,  Mr 
Lochran,  nominated  as  Delegate  as  Lai'ge, 
declined,  and  Mr.  Secbetaby  Chase  was  put 
in  his  place.  On  the  day  of  election,  however, 
the  ticket  came  out  differently,  and  I  wiU 
here  state  what  is  within  my  personal  knowl- 
edge, that  they  did  come  out  so  differently 
because  Judge  Meeker  himself  went  person- 
ally into  the  printing  office  on  the  Tiohj  Sab- 
hath  day-,  and  superintended  the  printing  of 
those  tickets  in  a  different  manner  from  what 
the  nomination  had  been  heard. 

On  the  sixth  of  June,  subsequent  to  the 
election,  but  previous  to  the  canvass,  the  fol- 
lowing article  appeared  in  the  same  paper : 

"  According  to  current  report  the  Black  sharpers 
made  a  point  of  the  alleged  fact  that  the  Demo- 
cratic ticket  was  printed  in  solido,  and  without  any 
classification  of  candidates  in  words,  either  as 
Council  or  Representative  Delegates ;  and  there- 
upon base  a  claim  for  certificates  to  Mcephy  and 
Putxam,  who  were  distinguished  on  the  printed 
ballots  of  the  "Republicans"  as  "Delegates  at 
Large."  Well,  there  is  no  call  here  for  a  waste  of 
ink  or  of  breath.  The  entire  matter  is  resolved 
into  a  question  of  intent  and  understanding ;  and 
when  we  arrive  at  the  common  intent  and  general 
understanding  in  the  premises,  we  have  the  only 
solution.  And  in  the  outset  it  may  be  asserted 
and  very  easily  proved  that  the  names  of  Judge 
Meeker  and  C.  L.  Chase  were,  the  Saturday 
before  the  election,  at  the  head  of  the  columns  of 
the  St.  Anthony  Express,  under  the  appellation 
printed  in  legible  characters,  of  "Delegates  at 
Large."  This  of  itself  meets  the  objection  raised^ 
of  a  want  of  an  understood  and  received  distinction 
in  the  public  mind  as  to  which  were  to  be  consid- 
ered Council  aud  which  Representative  Delegates." 

And  on  the  thirteenth  day  of  June,  subse- 
quently to  the  canvass  thsre  appeared  in  the 
same  paper  the  following  article : 

"Where  is  Judge  Meeker?  Why  is  he  not 
here  pulling  his  own  chestnuts  out  of  the  fire." 

Now,  Mr.  President,  as  I  said  before,  not 
only  did  the  law  require  the  designation  to  b« 


fil8 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Friday,  July  31. 


made  upon  the  tickets  between  the  two  classes 
of  Delegates,  but  also  the  Democratic  party 
of  that  district  knew  that  it  was  so  required ; 
Jnade  their  nominations  in  that  way,  published 
them  in  that  way  by  their  own  showing,  on 
the  Saturday  previous  to  the  Monday  on 
which  the  election  took  place ;  and  that 
subsequently  to  the  election  they  undertook 
to  offer  an  argument  that  because  they  so 
published  them,  the  voters  would  be  presumed 
to  have  it  understood  that  they  were  voting 
for  Meeker  and  Chase  as  Delegates  at  Large, 
and  the  others  from  the  representative  district, 
and  that  the  Board  of  Canvassers  were  bound 
to  take  that  as  evidence,  in  opposition  to  the 
evidence  of  the  tickets  which  the  voters  had 
cast. 

Again,  the  inquiry  in  regard  to  the  where- 
abouts of  Judge  Meeker,  shows  three  things ; 
In  the  first  place,  that  they  understood  that 
there  were  some  chesnuts  in  the  fire,  and 
liable  to  be  burned ;  second,  that  these  ches- 
nuts belonged  particularly  to  Judge  Meeker  ; 
and  in  the  third  place,  charging  him  with  not 
being  there  to  attend  to  them — or  in  other 
words,  charging  Judge  Meeker  with  having 
produced  the  state  of  the  case  under  which 
they  were  laboring ;  that  there  was  trouble 
and  that  he  had  brought  it  about. 

Now,  I  propose  to  say  a  word  in  regard  to 
"what  is  alleged  as  the  inconsistency  of  this 
Convention  in  this  matter.  It  is  asserted 
that  while  the  distinction  between  the  two 
•classes  of  Delegates  had  been  recognized  by 
somebody — and  it  is  charged  upon  the  Con- 
vention— that  the  Convention  themselves  have 
disregarded  that  distinction  in  other  cases; 
and  the  case  of  the  gentleman  from  the 
Eleventh  Council  District  (Mr.  Sheldon)  is 
referred  to  as  one  instance.  In  that  case, 
Mr.  President,  it  appears  by  the  evidence 
before  this  Convention,  that  Mr.  Sheldon 
actually  received  in  the  Council  District  for 
which  he  was  a  candidate,  three  votes  more 
than  R.  P.  Russell  ;  that  every  one  of  those 
votes  contained  the  distinction,  but  that  the 
judges  of  election,  in  making  the  returns  to 
the  register  of  deeds  of  their  precincts,  failed 
to  preserve  that  distinction,  and  that  conse- 
quently the  canvassing  board,  being  bound  by 
law  to  recognize  and  preserve  that  distinction, 
could  not  go  behind  the  returns,*  and  they 
returned  Mr.  Russell  as  duly  elected  to  this 


Convention ;  that  this  Convention  having 
the  power  to  go  behind  the  certificate,  Mr. 
Russell  refusing  to  appear  here,  and  Mr. 
Sheldon  claiming  the  seat,  the  Convention 
determined  that  he  having  received  the 
greatest  number  of  votes  cast  for  that  partic- 
ular oflBce,  was  entitled  to  a  seat  in  this 
Convention. 

It  has  also  been  asserted  that  twenty-eight 
members  of  this  Convention,  sitting  in  this 
body  were  voted  for  in  the  same  manner  as 
were  the  Democrats  in  the  Third  Council 
District.  Mr.  President,  this  Convention 
knows,  of  course,  nothing  about  that  matter, 
but  I  have  simply  to  say  that  in  each  of  the 
districts  in  which  that  thing  occurred  both 
tickets  were  in  the  same  form,  both  parties 
making  a  mistake,  as  I  understood  it,  in  the 
printing  of  their  tickets,  and  consequently  one 
had  no  preference  over  the  other,  and  that  tire 
register  of  deeds  in  those  counties  did  per- 
fectly right  in  giving  the  cerSflcates  to  those 
having  the  highest  number  of  votes. 

The  same  principle  will  apply  to  the  two 
scats  that  are  said  to  be  illegally  held  by 
Delegates  from  the  Eighth  Council  District. 
Not  only  in  that  district  was  it  necessary  to 
make  the  distinction  because  there  were  two 
classes  of  Delegates  to  be  elected,  but  also 
because  there  were  two  Councillor  Dele- 
gates to  be  elected  in  diflFerent  districts  from  • 
the  different  Representative  Delegates.  The 
counties  of  Houston  and  Mower,  being  them- 
selves separated  by  the  county  of  Fillmore, 
constituting  one  of  the  subdivisions  of  the 
Eighth  Council  District,  are  entitled  to  one 
Councillor,  while  the  county  of  Houston  is 
entitled  to  two  representatives,  and^he  county 
of  Mower  one.  Consequently  under  the  Ena- 
bling Act  the  county  of  Houston  would  be  en- 
titled to  elect  four  Delegates  and  the  county  of 
Mower  would  be  entitled  to  elect  two  Delegates, 
and  under  the  Territorial  Act  the  Council  Dis- 
trict of  Houston  and  Mower  together  were  en- 
titled to  elect  two  Delegates.  It  is  alleged  that 
two  delegates  sitting  in  this  Convention  received 
a  less  number  of  votes  than  two  others  to 
whom  certificates  of  election  were  refused. 
But  by  the  report  of  the  committee  on  Cre- 
dentials, before  referred  to,  it  appears  that  the 
two  gentlemen  sitting  in  this  body,  whose 
scats,  it  is  alleged,  are  illegally  held  by  them, 
received  the  highest  number  of  votes  in  the 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Friday,  July  81. 


21ff 


council  district  for  the  particular  office  of 
delegate  for  that  council  district,  and  that 
they  were,  vrah.  only  slight  exceptions,  the  only- 
persons  who  received  any  votes  for  that  office. 
Now,  Mr.  President,  I  suppose  gentlemen 
have  been  uneasy  wliile  I  have  been  speak- 
ing, because  they  wish  to  go  on  with  the 
business  of  the  Convention.  I  ^vish  to  pro- 
gress with  our  business  as  much  as  they  do, 
and  I  will  do  the  best  I  can  to  go  on  with  it. 
But,  sir,  while  the  action  of  this  Convention, 
in  their  accepting  the  certificates  of  every  in- 
dividual who  has  brought  them  here,  as  the 
only  e\'idence  that  could  be  received,  have 
taken  no  other  than  the  regular  and  legal 
course,  yet  I  deem  it  my  privilege  and  my 
duty  to  place  this  matter  upon  the  record, 
in  a  position  to  show  that  not  only  has  this 
Convention  pursued  the  steps  required  of 
them  by  law,  but  also  that  all  canvassing 
and  returning  officers  of  the  Territorial  gov- 
ernment have  pursued  the  same  steps.  And 
although  I  am  aware  that  it  is,  at  times, 
superfluous  to  raise  a  point  before  it  is  made 
in  Convention,  yet  I  trust  that  it  will  be  ad- 
mitted by  all  gentlemen  that  there  are  times 
when  it  is  proper  that  they  should  go  beyond 
that.  I  have  not  asked  this  body,  nor  would 
I  desire  or  consent  to  ask  this  body  to  take 
any  action  upon  the  matter.  "What  has 
.  been  said  has  been  said  as  a  matter  of 
knowledge,  as  a  member  of  this  Convention. 
I  have  further  to  say  that,  as  a  matter  of 
equity,  the  delegates  from  the  Third  Council 
District,  whose  seats  have  been  alleged  to  be 
held  illegally,  themselves  believe  and  know 
that  they  not  only  hold  their  seats  here  in 
strict  legal  regularity,  but  also  as  the  repre- 
sentatives of  quite  a  large  majority  of  all  the 
legal  voters  in  their  districts,  and  had  it  been 
their  fortune  to  have  had  them  contested, 
they  would  have  shown  it  to  the  world.  The 
average  majority,  counting  the  votes  as  passed 
without  any  distinction,  with  the  Democratic 
ticket,  is  fifteen;  and  I  assert,  without  the 
fear  of  successful  contradiction,  that  a  simple 
examination  of  the  poll  books  of  Manomin, 
Minneapolis,  St.  Paul,  and  St.  Anthony, 
would  find,  without  a  reasonable  doubt  to 
this  Convention,  or  to  anybody,  that  all  the 
delegates  sitting  in  tlus  body  from  the  Third , 
Council  District,  represent  at  least  fifty  ma- 
jority of  the  legal  voters  of  that  District. 


EEPOBT   OP   COStMITTEE. 

Mr.  MESSER,  from  the  committee  on  Im- 
peachment and  Removal  firom  Office,  made 
the  following  report,  which  was  read  a  first 
and  second  time,  and  laid  upon  the  table  to 
be  printed,  viz : 

"  Sec.  1.  The  House  of  Representatives  shall 
have  the  sole  power  of  impeaching  civil  oflBcers 
for  corrupt  conduct  in  oflSce,  or  for  crimes  or  mis- 
demeanors, but  a  majority  of  the  members  elected 
shall  be  necessary  to  direct  an  impeachment. 

Sec.  2.  Every  impeachment  shall  be  tried  by 
the  Senate.  When  the  Governor  or  Lieutenant 
Governor  is  tried,  the  Chief  Justice  of  the  Su- 
preme Court  shall  preside. 

"When  an  impeachment  is  directed,  the  Senate 
shall  take  an  oath  or  affirmation  truly  and  impar- 
tially to  try  and  determine  the  same  according  to 
the  evidence.  2fo  person  shall  be  convicted  with- 
out the  concurrence  of  two-thirds  of  the  members 
elected. 

Judgment,  in  case  of  impeachment  shall  not  ex- 
tend fmther  than  removal  from  office;  but  the 
party  convicted  shall  be  liable  to  punishment  ac- 
cording to  law. 

Sec  3.  When  an  impeachment  is  directed,  the 
House  of  Representatives  shall  elect  from  their 
own  body  three  members,  whose  duty  it  shall  be 
to  prosecute  such  impeachment.  I*o  impeachment 
shall  be  tried  untU  the  tinal  adjournment  of  the 
Legislature,  whdn  the  Senate  shall  proceed  to  try 
the  same. 

Sec.  i.  Xo  judicial  officer  shall  exercise  his 
office  after  an  impeachment  is  directed,  until  he  is 
acquitted. 

Sec.  5.  The  Governor  may  make  provisional 
appointment  to  fill  a  vacancy  occasioned  by  the 
suspension  of  an  officer  until  he  shall  be  acquitted, 
or  until  after  the  election  and  qualification  of  a 
successor. 

Sec.  6.  For  reasonable  cause,  which  shall  not 
be  sufficient  ground  for  the  impeachment  of  a 
Judge,  the  Governor  shall  remove  him  on  a  con- 
current resolution  of  two-thirds  of  the  members 
elected  to  each  House  of  the  Legislature ;  but  the 
cause  for  which  such  removal  is  required  shall  be 
stated  at  length  in  such  resolution. 

Sec  7.  The  Legislature  shall  provide  by  law 
for  the  removal  of  any  officer  elected  by  a  county 
or  township  or  school  district,  in  such  manner  as 
to  them  shall  seem  just  and  proper." 

BESOLUTIOXS. 

The  following  resolution,  oflfered  yesterday, 
was  taken  from  the  table  and  read : 

"Besolved,  That  this  Convention  adjourn  with- 
out day  on  Friday,  the  seventh  day  of  August 
next." 

Mr.  BOLLES  moved  that  the  resolution  be 
laid  on  the  table. 


220 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Friday,  July  81. 


The  motion  was  agreed  to. 

The  resolution  offered  by  Mr.  McCLrnE 
yesterday,  was  also  taken  from  the  table  and 
read,  and  then,  on  motion  of  Mr.  McClxjre, 
the  same  was  again  laid  upon  the  table. 

PROPOSITIONS   OF   CONGRESS. 

Mr.  BATES,  I  would  enquire  what  dispo- 
sition has  been  made  of  the  report  in  refer- 
ence to  accepting  the  propositions  of  Congress  ? 

Mr.  SEGQMBE.  It  was  considered  in 
pommittec  of  the  Whole,  reported  back  to  the 
Convention  with  a  recommendation  that  it  be 
adopted,  and  was  ther^  laid  upon  the  table, 

Mr.  BOLLES  moved  that  the  report  be 
^aken  up  at  this  time. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to,  and  the  report 
was  taken  from  the  table  and  read. 

Mr.  MORGAJJ.  I  move  that  the  rules  be 
so  far  suspended  as  to  allow  this  report  to  be 
referred  to  the  con^mittee  on  Arrangement 
find  Phraseology. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to,  and  the  report 
■^as  accordingly  so  referred. 

BOUNDARIES   OF   THE   STATE. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  move  that  the  Conven- 
^on  resolve  itself  into  a  committee  of  the 
Whole,  to  take  into  consideration  the  report 
pf  the  committee  upon  Boundaries, 

Mr.  COLI^URN.  I  should  not  object  to 
that  motion  were  it  not  from  the  fact  that 
when  the  matter  was  last  befo;re  the  Conven- 
tion, the  gentleman  from  Winona  (Mr. 
Wilson)  stated  that  he  wished  to  present  a 
minority  report,  and  at  that  time  it  was  de- 
ferred in  order  to  enable  him  to  do  sa  That 
gentleman  is  not  present  now,  though  he  has 
something  prepared  in  the  nature  of  a  substi- 
tute for  the  report.  For  that  reason  I  think 
we  liad  better  not  go  into  committee  now. 

Mr.  SECOMB^,  The  gentleman  from  Win- 
ona stated,  at  the  time  the  matter  was  up 
before,  that  he  would  make  hiis  minority 
report  the  next  d,ay,  and  that  be  would  ask 
no  further  delay. 

Mr.  COLBUilN.  Tl^e  gentleman  intended 
to  make  a  minority  report,  but  he  has  since 
concluded  to  offer  a  substitute  instead.  He 
is  prepared  to  do  so  as  soon  as  he  returns. 
lie  has  gone  to  his  rooms  for  a  special 
purpose. 

Mr.  McKUNE,  I  hope  the  gentleman  will 
withdraw   his  motion.     There  are  quite  a 


number  who  feel  interested  in  this  matter,  but 
they  are  not  now  prepared  to  meet  it. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  The  geiftleman  from 
Winona  was  present  this  morning,  and  stated 
to  me  that  there  was  no  probability  that  this 
report  would  be  reached  untU  this  afternoon, 
and  that  it  was  indispensably  necessary  that 
he  should  go  to  his  room  to  transact  some 
business.  He  desired  me  to  state,  if  this 
report  should  be  called  up,  that  he  desired 
that  it  should  be  postponed  until  after  dinner, 
as  he  desired  to  be  heard  upon  a  proposition 
he  had  to  submit.  Knowing  some  of  the 
positions  he  occupies,  and  sympathising  with 
him  somewhat,  I  hope  the  report  will  not  be 
taken  up  now, 

Mr.  SFjCOMBE.  I  have  no  personal  wishes 
upon  the  subject,  and  as  it  seems  to  be  the 
desire  of  the  Convention,  I  withdraw  the 
motion. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  As  there  seems  to  be  no 
business  before  the  Convention,  and  as  there 
are  several  committees  which  have  business 
to  transact,  I  move  that  the  Convention 
adjourn  until  half  past  two  o'clock. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to,  and  thereupon 
(at  half  past  eleven  o'clock)  the  Conventiori 
adjourned, 

AFTERNOON  SESSION. 

REPORT   OF   COMMITTEES, 

Mr.  BILLINGS,  from  the  committee  on 
State  Officers  other  than  Executive,  made  tho 
following  report,  which  was  read  a  first  and 
second  time  and  laid  on  the  table  to  be 
printed. 

Skc.  1.  There  shall  t^e  elected  at  each  general 
biennial  election  a  Secretary  of  State,  State  Treas- 
urer, Attorney  General,  State  Auditor  and  Super- 
intendent of  Public  Instruction  for  tho  term  of 
two  years.  They  shall  keep  their  offices  at  the 
SiCat  of  Government,  and  perform  such  duties  and, 
receive  such  compensation  as  may  be  prescribed 
by  law, 

Sec,  2.  Their  term  of  office  shall  commence  on 
the  first  Monday  of  January  succeeding  their 
ejection,  and  everj'  second  year  thereafter. 

Skc,  3,  Whenever  a  vacancy  shall  occur  in, 
aiyr  of  the  State  Offices,  the  Governor  shall  fill  the 
same  by  appointment,  until  the  next  election  of 
Representatives,  by  and  with  the  advice  and  con- 
sent of  the  Senate,  if  in  session. 

Skc.  4.    The  Secretary  of  State,  State  Treasurer, 

and  Auditor,   shall  constitute  a  Board  of  State 

Canvassers,  to  determine  the  result  of  all  elections, 

'for  Governor  and  State  Officers,  and  such  othev 

'  Qflicera  w  may  be  referred  to  tliem. 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Friday,  July  31. 


221 


Sec.  5.  In  case  two  or  more  persons  have  an 
equal  and  highest  number  of  votes  lor  any  Office, 
fLS  canvassed  by  the  Board  of  State  Canvassers, 
the  Legislature  in  joint  Convention,  shall  choose 
one  of  said  persons  to  fill  such  office. 

Sec.  6.  When  the  determination  of  the  Board 
pf  State  Canvassers  is  contested,  the  Legislature 
in  Joint  Convention  shall  decide  which  person  is 
elected. 

COM.MITTEE   OX   ENEOLLMEXT. 

Mr.  }iIcCLURE  moved  that  a  committee  of 
three  on  EmroUment  be  appointed  by  the 
Chair. 

Mr.  HARDING.     I  would  inquire  if  such 
a  committee  has  not  already  been  appointed  ? 
The  PRESIDENT.     A  committee  on  En- 
grossment has  been  appointed. 

Mr,  McCLURE.  It  is  usual  to  have  both 
an  Enrolling  and  Engrossing  Committee,  The 
committee  on  Arrangement  and  Phraseology 
have  too  much  business  thrown  upoii  their 
hands. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to,  and  thereupon 
the  President  appointed  as  such  committee 
Messrs.  Folsoji,  Cleghorx  and  Russell. 

Mr.  McCLURE,  from  the  committee  on 
Arrangement  and  Phraseology,  reported  back 
reports  number  one  and  eight,  being  the 
reports  upon  the  Preamble  and  Bill  of  Rights, 
^nd  ■  upon  the  LegislaMve  Department,  and 
asked  that  they  be  referred  to  the  committee 
on  Enrollment. 

They  were  so  referred. 

boundaries  of  the  state. 
On  motion  of  Mr.  CQLBURN,  the  Convene 
tion  resolved  itself  into  a  committee  of  the 
Whole,  (Mr.  Thojipsos  in  the  chair)  upon  the 
report  of  the  committee  upon  Boundaries. 
The  report  was  read  as  follows : 

"It  is  hereby  ordained  and  declared  that  the 
State  of  Minnesota  doth  consent  to  and  accept  of 
the  boundaries  prescribed  in  the  act  of  Congress 
entitled  an  act  to  enable  the  people  of  Minnesota 
to  form  a  Constitution  and  State  Government  pre- 
paratory to  their  admission  in  the  Union  on  an 
equal  footing  with  the  original  States,  approved 
ilarch  3d,  1S57 :  Beginning  at  the  point  in  the 
centre  of  the  main  channel  of  the  Red  River  of 
the  North  where  the  boundary  line  between  the 
United  States  and  the  British  possessions  crosses 
the  same  ;  thence  up  the  main  channel  of  the  said 
River,  to  that  of  the  Bois  des  Sioux  River ;  thence 
up  the  main  channel  of  said  River,  to  Lake  Trav- 
erse ;  thence  up  the  centre  of  said  Lake  to  the 
southern  extremity  thereof;  thence  in  a  direct  line 
to  the  head  of  Big  Stone  Lake ;  thence  through  its 


centre  to  its  outlet ;  thence  by  a  due  south  line  to 
the  north  line  of  the  State  of  Iowa;  thence  along 
the  northern  boundary  of  said  State  to  the  main 
channel  of  the  Mississippi  River  ;  thence  up  the 
main  channel  of  said  River,  and  following  the 
boundary  line  of  the  State  of  Wisconsin  until  the 
same  intersects  the  Saint  Louis  River ;  thence 
down  the  said  River  to  and  through  Lake  Superior 
on  the  boundary  line  of  Wisconsin  and  Michigan, 
until  it  intersects  the  dividing  line  between  the 
United  States  and  the  British  possessions ;  thence 
up  the  Pigeon  River,  and  following  said  dividing 
line  to  the  place  of  beginning." 

Mr.  WILSON.  I  was  a  member  of  the 
committee  which  made  this  report,  though  I 
did  not  concur  in  it.  I  intended  to  make  a 
minority  report,  but  will  content  myself  with 
oflfering  the  following  substitute ; 

"The  boundaries  of  the  State  of  Minnesota  shall 
be  as  follows : 

Beginning  in  the  middle  of  the  main  channel  of 
the  Missouri  River  at  the  point  where  the  forty- 
sixth  parallel  of  north  latitude  crosses  the  same ; 
thence  down  the  middle  of  the  main  channel  of 
said  Missouri  River  to  the  western  boundary  of  the 
State  of  Iowa  at  a  point  opposite  the  mouth  of  the 
main  channel  of  the  Big  Sioux  River ;  thence  up 
the  middle  of  the  main  channel  of  said  Big  Sioux 
River  to  the  north  west  corner  of  the  State  of 
Iowa;  thence  east  along  the  northern  boundary  of 
said  State  to  the  main  channel  of  the  Mississippi 
River ;  thepce  up  the  main  channel  of  the  Missis- 
sipi  River  following  the  boundary  line  of  the  State 
of  Wisconsin  until  it  is  intersected  by  the  parallel 
of  forty-six  degrees  north  latitude ;  thence  west 
?dong  said  parallel  of  forty-six  degrees  until  said 
parallel  intersects  the  middle  of  the  main  channel 
of  the  Missouri  River  at  the  point  of  beginning." 

Mr.  McKUNE,  I  hope  this  substitute  will 
be  adopted.  Its  claims  are  so  just  that  Uttle 
need  to  be  said  to  convince  the  mind  of  any 
man  that  great  benefits  would  be  derived 
irom  adopting  it.  The  boundaries  contained 
in  the  Enabling  Act  are  only  recommenda- 
tory. It  that  be  true,  then  the  people  of 
Minnesota  are  perfectly  free  to  establish  their 
own  boundaries.  The  boundaries  proposed 
in  the  substitute  include  nearly  all  the  inhab- 
ited portion  of  Minnesota  and  nearly  all  that 
ever  can  become  populous.  By  adopting  this 
boundary  we  not  only  get  rid  of  large  tracts 
of  unfertile  lands,  but  of  conflicting  interests, 
which  will  require  distinct  and  separate  legis- 
lation. Legislation  which  is  applicable  to  and 
necessary  for  the  protection  of  a  fjuming  com- 
munity, is  not  applicable  to,  or  necessary  for 
a  minmg,  trapping  or  hunting  district.    No 


222 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Friday,  July  31. 


man  will  deny  but  that  the  agricultural  in- 
terest north  of  the  parallel  of  forty-six  dcgi'ces 
is  dwarfed  to  insignificance,  nor  will  they  deny 
that  lumber  is  the  main  product  of  the  Ter- 
ritory north  of  that  line.  The  mining  region 
is  very  small.  The  fur  trade  is  of  considera- 
ble consequence,  and  almost  all  its  benefits 
are  confined  to  this  City.  The  people  north 
of  that  line,  by  this  division,  will  be  deprived 
of  none  of  the  commercial  advantages  they 
now  enjoy,  nor  shall  we  be  deprived  of  the 
large  lumber  interest  which  we  now  enjoy. 
The  commerce  created  by  the  mining  interest 
of  the  present  Territory  is  confined  to  the 
shores  of  lake  Superior,  and  goes  from  there 
directly  east,  and  consequently  it  does  not 
benefit  the  Territory  of  Minnesota  generally 
one  doUar.  The  City  of  St.  Paul  or  any 
other  trading  post  wUl  enjoy  the  same  amount 
of  trade  from  the  north  that  they  do  now. 
No  man  will  pretend  to  say  that  St.  Paul  will 
receive  a  less  share  of  the  fur  trade  than  she 
does  now,  or  that  the  rivers  flowing  south 
will  be  turned  north  so  as  to  deprive  us  of 
the  lumber  trade.  By  this  division,  the  peo- 
ple north  of  the  line  will  have  all  the  com- 
merce and  advantages  they  now  possess,  and 
at  the  same  time  be  separated  from  the  con- 
flicting interests  which  would  forever  be  a 
curse  to  the  Territory  north  of  the  parallel  of 
forty-six  degrees. 

I  have  now  shown  you  that  no  portion  of 
this  Territory  will  lose  anything  by  this  pro- 
posed new  boundary,  and  now  let  us  see  what 
benefits  the  south  will  derive  from  such  a 
boundary.  The  proposed  boundary  stretches 
from  the  St.  Croix  River  to  the  navigable  wa- 
ters of  the  Missouri,  taking  in  an  area  of  Ter- 
ritory almost  equal  to  that  included  within 
the  boundaries  proposed  by  the  Enabling  Act, 
south  of  forty-six  degrees  of  latitude,  and  in- 
cludes a  rich  agricultural  country  second  to 
none  in  this  Territory,  and  drawing  with  it 
all  the  commerce  and  trade  of  all  the  numer- 
ou.s  branches  of  tho<Missouri  River,  and  also 
the  rich  coal  fields  lying  along  that  River, 
which  will  furnish  a  rich  trade  that  cannot  go 
south  of  us,  if  included  within  our  State,  but 
must  come  directly  through  the  State  by  the 
east  and  west  roads,  making  Minnesota  not 
only  one  of  the  richest  agricultural,  but  one 
of  the  richest  commercial  States  in  the  Union. 

Mr.  HA YDEN.    I  did  not  think  of  making 


any  remarks  upon  this  question,  but  I  must 
confess  that  I  am  somewhat  astonished,  under 
the  circumstances,  that  it  should  be  intro- 
duced in  this  manner.  There  are  a  number 
of  reasons  why  I  am  opposed  to  that  substi- 
tute being  adopted  in  place  of  the  original 
report. 

In  the  first  place,  it  is  very  important,  if 
we  are  framing  a  Constitution  with  the  expec- 
tation that  the  people  will  adopt  it,  and  that 
we  shall  be  admitted  as  a  State  into  the  Un- 
ion under  it,  that  we  should  frame  that  Con- 
stitution under  the  Enabling  Act,  and  without 
departing  from  it  one  way  or  the  other.  It  is 
much  more  important  under  the  circiomstan- 
ces  in  which  we  are  placed,  than  it  otherwise 
would  be,  and  I  hope  that,  as  members  of 
this  Convention,  we  shall  feel  that  importance 
and  act  accordingly. 

But  it  has  been  alleged  here,  that  if  we  go 
according  to  the  Enabling  Act,  that  there  will 
be  conflicting  interests  in  the  State — that  the 
lumbering,  the  mining,  the  commercial  and 
the  agricultural  interests  wUl  all  conflict. 
Now,  sir,  I  view  that  subject  in  a  very  differ- 
ent light.  I  believe  that  those  interests  in- 
stead of  conflicting,  will  necessarily  combine 
to  make  us  what  we  desire  to  be — a  prosper- 
ous and  powerful  State.  It  is  just  what  is 
demanded  and  necessary  to  make  us  one  of 
the  most  powerful  States  in  the  whole  union. 

Another  thing  is  to  be  taken  into  conside- 
ration. We  have,  according  to  the  Enaljling 
Act,  mot  and  elected  delegates  to  tliis  Con- 
stitutional Convention,  living  within  the  lim- 
its of  the  proposed  State.  Now  if  this  sub- 
stitute is  adopted,  there  are  men  in  this  body 
who  necessarily  should  go  home,  for  they  have 
no  business  to  assist  in  framing  a  State  gov- 
ernment for  a  State  to  which  they  do  not  and 
cannot  belong. 

Mr.  McKUNE.  Will  the  gentleman  inform 
me  what  members  live  north  of  the  limits  pro- 
posed by  the  substitute  ? 

Mr.  IIAYDEN.  There  were  men  living 
north  of  that  line,  who  were  elected  to  this 
Convention,  but  who  have  not  taken  their 
seats.  They  liavc  as  much  right  to  claim  a 
seat  here  as  any  of  us. 

I  liope,  Mr.  President,  that  wc  who  are  as- 
sembled to  represent  the  interests  of  the  peo- 
ple of  this  Territory,  will  see  the  importance 
of  rejecting  each  and  every  substitute,  and  of 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Friday,  Jplt  81. 


223 


going  forward  and  framing  our  Constitution 
under  the  Enabling  Act. 

Mr.  WILSON.  I  hope  the  case  is  not  so 
hopeless  a  one  as  some  would  seem  to  think. 
I  hope  in  seeing  the  votes  recorded  upon  this 
amendment  to  see  that  there  is  not  a  great 
majority  against  an  east  and  west  line  ;  and 
I  hope  still  further  to  see  a  majority  in  its 
favor.  If  not,  I  say  there  are  charges  which 
are  to  me  inexplicable  in  every  sense.  Now, 
I  am  in  favor  of  the  boundary  contained  in 
the  substitute  in  almost  every  hght  that  I  can 
view  it.  I  am  in  favor  of  it  because  I  believe 
the  people  of  this  Territory  want  it.  I  be- 
lieve the  people  demand  this  boundary,  "W  hen 
we  take  a  map  of  our  Territory  and  see  how 
it  is  populated,  and  then  look  at  the  represen- 
tatives that  population  sends  to  this  Conven- 
tion, I  cannot  see  how  any  person  can  draw 
any  other  conclusion.  Houston  and  Winona 
Counties  where  are  they?  In  favor  of  the 
boundaries  contained  in  the  substitute.  Here 
lies  Fillmore  County  and  where  is  she  ?  In 
favor  of  an  East  and  West  line.  Where  stand 
almost  all  the  southern  counties?  Where 
but  on  the  side  of  an  East  and  West  hne. 

Mr.  WATSON.  I  beg  the  gentleman's 
pardon,  but  I  must  interrupt  him.  I  can  in- 
form the  gentlemen  that  Fillmore  County  is 
not  in  favor  of  an  East  and  West  line. 

Mr.  WILSON.  WeU  I  never  heard  that 
before.  I  have  always  imderstood  that  she 
was  arrayed  with  all  the  southern  counties 
against  this  North  and  South  line. 

Mr.  WATSON.  More  than  two-thu-ds  of 
the  inhabitants  of  Fillmore  County  are  in 
favor  of  a  North  and  South  Une. 

Mr.  WILSON.  WeU  I  suppose  I  stand 
corrected,  as  the  gentleman  ought  to  know 
more  about  that  coimty  than  I  do,  but  this  is 
the  first  time  I  ever  heard  of  it  in  my  life. 
Almost  the  entire  population  of  southern 
Minnesota  I  understand  to  be  in  favor  of  it, 
and  I  believe  that  quite  a  majority  of  the 
whole  people  of  the  Territory  are  also  in  favor 
.of  an  East  and  West  line.  I  believe  too  that 
the  opposition  to  this  line  believe  a  majority  of 
the  people  are  in  favor  of  it,  because  if  they 
did  not,  they  would,  like  honest  men,  have  per- 
mitted the  people  to  express  their  sentiments 
fairly  upon  the  question.  But  they  dare  not 
do  it.     Now  how  was  this  boundary  procured  ? 


I  state  it,  for  the  information  of  the  members 
of  this  Convention,  that  the  present  appor- 
tionment under  which  we  now  act  was  procured 
by  these  Pembina  members.  These  Pem- 
bina members  had  the  control,  the  balance  of 
power  in  the  Legislature,  and  they  said  to 
their  friends,  "  we  will  not  vote  so  and  so  un- 
"  less  you  give  us  three  members  in  the  Legis- 
"  lature,"  and  that  too  without  taking  a  census 
at  all  as  is  done  in  the  remainder  of  the  Ter- 
ritory. It  is  notorious  that  they  did  not 
deserve  one  in  either  House — their  population 
would  not  warrant  it.  The  demand  was 
granted  by  those  who  always  traded  with 
Pembina,  and  they  got  three  representa- 
tives when  they  should  have  had  none. 
Now,  sir,  we  came  up  to  the  Legislature  last 
winter  seeking  a  new  apportionment,  that  we 
might  get  a  far  representation  in  this  Consti- 
tutional Convention,  and  in  legislative  bodies 
hereafter.  WeU  one  of  these  Pembina  mem- 
bers takes  himself  away,  hiding  himself  in 
some  obscure  hole  in  this  city,  and  then  some 
of  our  bretheren  near  St.  Paul  demands  a 
call  of  the  Council,  and  thereby  keeps  it  in 
session  so  that  no  business  can  be  done,  in 
order  that  no  new  apportionment  may  be 
made.  That  is  the  condition  in  which  we 
stand  now.  I  state  these  facts  upon  the  in- 
formation of  gentlemen  whose  words  are  en- 
titled to  aU  confidence,  and  therefore  I  be- 
Ueve  them.  The  veiy  fact  that  they  acted  so 
palpably  imjust  con^-inces  me  that  they  be- 
lieved that  fairness  in  the  matter  would  have 
given  us  an  East  and  West  line.  The  very 
knowledge  that  such  fi*audulent  means  have 
been  used  to  defeat  the  wiU  of  a  majority  of 
the  people  of  the  Territory  makes  me  the 
more  anxious  and  determined  to  have  this 
boundary  if  it  is  possible. 

But,  say  some — and  this  is  the  argument 
by  which  some  gentlemen  here,  reaUy  in 
favor  of  an  East  and  West  line,  wiU  tiy  to 
solace  themselves  in  voting  for  a  North  and 
South  line — the  Enabling  Act  does  not  permit 
us  to  have  it.  Now  I  am  astonished  when 
sensible  men  like  every  man  in  this  Conven- 
tion, bring  forward  such  an  argument,  and 
more  astonished  when  men  known  to  be  good 
lawyers  bring  up  such  an  argmnent.  It  is  a 
question  which  I  will  not  argue  here,  that  we 
have  the  right  without  the  Enabling  Act,  to 
go  on  and  frame  a  State  Constitution.    Now 


224 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— t'KiDAV,  JuLt  31. 


in  what  part  of  that  Act  is  there  any  restric- 
tion found  ?     In  no  section  or  line. 

I  think  I  know  something  about  the  origin 
of  this  Enabhng  Act,  and  I  think  I  know 
when  the  first  petition  was  got  up  for  such  an 
act.  What  was  the  use  of  petitions,  said 
many.  The  reply  was,  if  we  go  on  withoiit 
an  Enabling  Act,  the  Territory  will  have  to 
bear  the  expense  ;  but  if  Congress  passes  an 
Act,  the  expense  will  be  defrayed  by  the 
General  Government.  That  was  the  argu- 
ment I  heard  in  favor  of  it.  Now  I  take  it 
for  granted  that  we  have  the  right  to  go  on 
and  form  a  Constitution  without  an  Enabling 
Act,  and  I  say  there  is  not  a  word  in  the 
Enabhng  Act  passed,  restricting  us  in  any 
sense.  It  merely  affirms  otu*  power  to  do 
what  we  had  the  power  to  do  without  it.  The 
very  title  shows  that  it  is  not  an  Act  restrict- 
ive. If  then  we  are  not  restricted  by  that 
Act,  I  hope  no  man  will  raise  a  cry  again 
about  the  Enabling  Act. 

Let  that  pass  then,'  and  let  us  put  the 
matter  upon  its  merits.  Let  us  have  some 
reason  why  the  East  and  West  boundary 
proposed  in  the  substitute  is  not  the  best.  I 
say  with  my  friend  who  spoke  before  me, 
(Mr.  McKune) — and  I  endorse  every  word 
he  said — that  it  seems  to  me  perfectly  clear 
Miat  the  greatest  good  to  the  greatest  number 
of  the  people  of  Minnesota,  would  be  derived 
from  a  boundary  different  from  that  proposed 
by  the  report  of  the  committee.  Why  ?  A 
very  good  book  says,  "two  cannot  walk 
"  together  unless  they  be  agreed."  That  is 
true.  We  have  had  proof  ample  of  it.  The 
acts  of  our  legislative  bodies  last  winter  are 
proof  sufficient.  The  acts  of  the  legislative 
body  that  made  our  present  apportionment 
is  proof  in  point.  And  if  you  want  more 
proof,  the  events  which  have  transpired  within 
this  Hall  within  the  last  three  weeks  will 
fuiTiish  it.  Those  same  Pembina  members 
representing  a  diversity  of  interest,  and  none 
in  common  with  us,  come  up  again  to  disturb 
our  harmonious  action.  Take  a  State  of  the 
length  of  this,  with  men  living  at  one  extreme 
who  follow  different  pursuits  from  those  living 
at  the  other  extreme — or  rather,  following  no 
pursuit  for  a  living.  Take  a  population  com- 
posed of  trappers,  hunters,  miners,  lumber- 
men— a  sort  of  omnium  gatherum  of  all 
classes — living  in  one  extreme,  and  an  agri- 


cultural class  living  at  the  other  extreme,  and 
their  interests  are,  and  necesarily  will  be 
diverse,  and  they  can  have  no  sort  of  feeling 
in  common.  There  wiU  be  distrust  one  of 
the  other,  and  legislative  enactments  which 
suit  the  one  will  not  suit  the  other.  Take  the 
case  which  has  lately  transpired  here  at  the 
capitol.  A  certain  party  sees  that  it  has  not 
carried  its  point  in  the  election  of  Delegates 
to  this  Convention.  What  does  it  do  ?  What 
will  it  do  in  future  in  similar  cases  ?  It  resorts 
to  Pembina,  and  will  again.  She  will  do  any 
thing  for  them. 

In  the  very  face  of  this  Enabling  Act, 
which  they  say  so  much  about,  they  declare 
that  Pembina  must  have  six  members  of  this 
Convention.  Is  there  any  pretence  for  it? 
Is  there  any  justice  in  it?  Not  at  all.  It  is 
not  necessary  to  argue  that  point  with  this 
Convention.  But  Pembina,  very  willing,  very 
ready  and  anxious  to  injure  and  thwart  the 
designs  of  Souttern  Minnesota,  is  willing  to 
be  made  the  pliant  tool  for  anything.  St. 
Paul,  I  will  say,  if  we  have  the  boundaries  of 
the  State  as  proposed  by  the  report  of  the 
committee,  will  have  the  balance  of  power  in 
her  hands,  and  if  we  can  judge  the  futm-e 
from  the  past,  I  never  wish  St.  Paul  to  have 
the  balance  of  power.  I  repeat  it — because  I 
was  taken  to  task  for  saying  it  once  before — 
I  never  wish  St.  Paul  to  have  tt»e  balance  of 
power.  ^ 

It  is  true  southern  Minnesota  is  populous,- 
but  St.  Paul  with  these  northern  trappers 
and  miners,  will  always  have  the  balance  of 
power,  and  when  she  wishes  anythuig  she 
will  make  bargains  with  Pembina  and  will 
get  what  she  wants  right  or  wrong,  as  she  has 
heretofore  done.  That  is  one  reason  why  I 
wish  a  different  boundary  and  one  which  will 
not  of  necessity  give  St.  Paul  the  balance  of 
power.  I  speak  not  of  the  individual  inhab- 
itants of  St.  Paul.  She  has,  like  every  other 
place  her  good  and  her  bad  men.  But  I 
speak  of  her  politically  and  only  of  her  poli- 
tically— I  mean  the  political  leaders  of  St. 
Paul.  I  never  wish  them  to  have  any  control 
in  any  State  of  which  I  am  a  citizen.  But 
how  can  mo  deprive  her  of  it,  without  chang- 
ing our  boundaries  ? 

Another  thing,  it  is  always  best  to  make  a 
State  as  nearly  square  as  possible.  That  is 
something  that  does  not  need  proof.    AVe  do; 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Fbiday,  July  31. 


225 


not  want  for  a  State,  a  strip  of  country  ex- 
tending firom  the  British  possessions  down  to 
the  Iowa  line.  We  do  not  want  to  pay  our 
legislators,  and  all  our  other  officers  as  much 
in  mileage  as  we  do  for  per  diem  compensa- 
tion. If  gentlemen  will  look  at  the  bounda- 
ries of  the  State  as  proposed  by  the  report  of 
the  committee  they  will  see  that  we  shall  have 
to  do  that.  We  should  have  our  State  in  as 
compact  form  as  possibjg  so  that  our  feelings 
and  interests  should  be  identical,  and  those 
who  advocate  such  a  boundary  as  is  proposed 
by  the  committee  must  see  some  very  good 
reason  for  neglecting  every  dictate  of  right 
and  prudence  in  the  formation  of  such  boun- 
daries.    I  cannot  see  them. 

Now  why  should  we  not  have  such  boim- 
daries  as  I  have  proposed  ?    Why  should  we 
have  imnatural  boundaries  here.     Is  it  that 
we  may  have  the  trade  of  a  large  State  pass- 
ing by  the  side  of,  rather  than  through  it. 
Grentlemen  say  here  are  the  mining  and  the 
lumbering  interests.    What  does  that  amount 
to  ?     The  mining  interest  and  the  Imnbering 
interest  are  good  when  they  add  to  the  wealth 
of  the  State,  if  they  develope  wealth  within 
the  State.     That    we  should    have  lumber 
growing  in  the  State,  and  mining  carried  on 
in  the  State  is  no  good  argument.     We  can- 
not fear  any  duty  or  prohibition  on  their  im- 
portation, nor  does  the  product  of  the  forest 
or  the  mine  because  it  came  from  without 
the  State.    Does  om'  wealth  consist  in  our 
pineries,  in  our  minerals,  or  is  it  to  be  foimd 
in  the  flourishing  farms  of  Minnesota  ?    It  is 
only  necessary  to  have  the  question  asked,  to 
have  it  answered  in  our  own  minds.     When 
men  talk  of  putting  ovu:  State  in  this  imusual 
shape  for  the  purpose  of  making  it  more  weal- 
thy, it  is  for  them  to  prove  that  it  will  be  so. 
I  do  not  ask  for  a  State  such  as  I  propose, 
on  account  of  its  political  aspects.     That  ar- 
gmnent  has  been  thrown  out  as  the  reason 
why  Southern  Minnesota  wishes  an  East  and 
West  line.     I  say  it  comes  with  a  bad  grace 
firom  those  who  advance  it.     It  is  assertion 
without  proof.    It  is,  too,  an  assertion  which 
needs  proof,  and  very  strong  proof     They 
ought  to  show  us  the  great  necessity,  before 
they  accuse  us  of  being  governed  by  selfish 
motives  and  the  great  advantage  of  having  a 
State  in  so  unusual  and  inconvenient  a  shape, 
or  else  we  must  believe  they  have  some  local  ' 
29 


or  selfish  object  to  attain  by  their  proposed 
line. 

I  hope  gentlemen  will  not  longer  hide  them- 
selves beliind  the  Enabling  Act.  Let  them 
be  manly,  and  come  out  upon  this  subject, 
boldly  and  frankly,  according  to  their  real 
sentiments.  Do  not  permit  a  few  interests 
inside  or  outside  to  shape  our  course,  and 
above  all  things  do  not  seek  to  scare  us  with 
this  Enabling  Act.  That  act,  I  say  again, 
takes  firom  us  no  right  we  ever  possessed 
without  it,  and  no  man  in  this  Hall  will  say 
that  Mmnesota  has  no  right  to  come  into  the 
Union  without  the  Enabling  Act. 

But,  say  some,  we  a^e  in  peculiar  circum- 
stances, and  we  should  endeavor  to  fii-ame  a 
Constitution  with  a  view  to  its  adoption. 
Very  well ;  then  I  say  adopt  tliis  East  and 
West  line,  and  you  will  have  the  whole  of 
Southern  Minnesota  with  you,  notwithstand- 
ing my  firiend  on  my  left  thinks  his  county 
is  not  in  favor  of  such  a  measure.  I  have 
meditated  upon  that  subject  much,  and  know- 
ing the  feelings  of  the  people  of  my  section  of 
the  Territory,  I  do  say  you  are  not  sure  of 
their  votes  imless  you  do  adopt  difierent 
boundaries  from  those  reported  by  the  com- 
mittee. Mark  my  words :  You  will  always 
find  me,  here,  and  after  I  leave  this  Hall, 
working  for  the  success  of  this  Constitution  ; 
but  I  do  say,  I  do  not  feel  that  certairfty  of 
its  adoption  with  a  North  and  South  line,  that 
I  would  with  an  East  and  West  line.  I  hope 
gentlemen  will  take  this  matter  into  consider- 
ation. Take  a  map  of  the  State,  look  at  it, 
and  see  where  its  population  mostly  is,  and  I 
think  any  man  would  naturally  infer  that  an 
East  and  West  line  is  the  line  which  the  in- 
terest of  the  people  demand. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  I  feel  called  upon,  in 
defence  of  my  own  district  and  constituents, 
to  say  a  few  words  upon  this  very  important 
question.  The  great  interest  my  constituents 
have  at  stake  in  this  matter,  may  well  justify 
any  exhibition  of  deep  feeling  upon  my  part. 
I  am  boimd  to  have  more  feeling  upon  the 
subject  than  the  gentleman  fi-om  Winona. 
The  East  and  West  line  does  not  propose  to 
disfi:tmchise  any  of  that  gentleman's  constit- 
uents, while  it  does  a  portion  of  mine.  And 
why  should  they  be  cut  off?  What  good 
reason  can  be  assigned  ?  Let  the  gentleman 
take  a  survey  of  the  history  of  this  Terri- 


226 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Feiday,  July  31. 


/  tory.  When  the  pineries  of  the  St.  Croix 
were  first  opened  in  1838,  the  only  inhabit- 
ants of  this  Territory  were  trappers,  hunters, 
and  lumbermen ;  and  if  I  may  be  allowed  to 
say  it,  yea,  those  very  trappers  and  lumbermen 
of  northern  Minnesota,  have  made  southern 
Minnesota  what  she  is — made  it,  somewhat  as 
the  Almighty  made  the  earth — out  of  nothing. 
There  was  a  time  in  the  history  of  our  Terri- 
tory— and  that  not  a  long  time  back — when 
there  were  no  people  in  this  Territory  except 
those  living  north  and  east  of  the  Mississippi 
river. 

Now  let  us  look  at  the  acts  of  our  Legisla- 
ture, and  see  if  s^e  has  been  partial  to 
southern  Minnesota.  It  was  notorious,  as 
gentlemen  well  know,  that  our  first  Legisla- 
ture was  said  to  be  under  the  influence  of  the 
fur  interest.  I  know  something  about  our 
history,  as  I  have  been  in  the  Territory  for 
seven  years.  At  the  time  the  last  apportion- 
ment was  made,  the  Legislature  was  nearly 
equally  divided.  The  fur  interest  insisted 
upon  the  old  apportionment,  while  the  farmers 
along  the  Mississippi,  and  the  lumbermen, 
were  disposed  to  have  a  new  apportionment. 
Gentlemen  have  seen  fit  to  reflect  upon  Pem- 
bina. But  it  was  through  the  Pembina  votes 
that  southern  Minnesota  got  -anything  like  a 
fair  apportionment,  and  representation,  al- 
though I  am  not  here  to  justify  all  the  acts 
done  in  that  regard. 

I  come  from  a  lumbering  district,  and  I 
cannot  sit  here  and  allow  gentleman  from  any 
portion  of  the  Territory  to  say  anything  which 
will  detract  from  the  character  of  my  con- 
stituents. I  know  they  have  good  heads  and 
noble  hearts. 

They  forego  all  the  privileges  of  society 
one  half  of  the  year  for  the  purpose  of  de- 
veloping those  means  which  are  fast  making 
us  a  great  and  wealthy  country.  I  presume 
that  southern  Minnesota  is  all  that  gentlemen 
claim  for  it.  I  do  not  deny  it,  but  I  had  sup- 
posed that  this  question  was  long  since  dis- 
posed of,  and  that  hereafter  we  should  move 
along  hand  in  hand.  Living  in  the  northern 
portion  of  the  Territory,  I  am  willing  that 
southern  Minnesota  should  have  a  preponder- 
ance in  our  deliberative  bodies.  I  am  willing 
to  throw  myself  upon  their  good  judgment, 
and  tender  mercies  in  that  respect.  But  we, 
of  the  St.  Croix  river,  claim  that  we  were  the 


first  to  open  the  soil  of  Minnesota  to  produc- 
tive industry,  and  we  claim  that  we  should  be 
heard  in  determining  the  boundaries  of  our 
future  State. 

It  may  be  that  a  majority  of  the  people  of 
the  Territory  are  in  favor  of  an  East  and 
West  line.  If  so,  I  do  not  know  it.  But 
there  is  one  thing  I  would  remind  gentlemen 
of,  and  that  is  that  there  is  an  overruling 
power  in  Congress  so  to  divide  our  Territory, 
not  only  to  suit  us,  but  with  a  view  to  the 
formation  of  other  States.  Congress  certainly 
must  feel  disposed  to  prescribe  the  lines  'of 
every  State  more  in  accordance  with  justice 
and  generosity  than  the  people  themselves  of 
any  State.  I  desire  to  say  nothing  now  about 
that  which  I  regard  to  be  the  wealth  of  the 
northern  portion  of  our  Tenitory.  I  ijelieve 
that  a  variety  of  pursuits  tends  to  promote 
happiness,  and  the  more  of  the  native  ele- 
ments of  wealth  we  have  within  our  borders 
the  more  sure  we  are  of  success  and  pros- 
perity. 

Mr.  MANTOR.  I  propose  to  trouble  the 
Convention  with  but  few  remarks.  I  am  op- 
posed and  ever  have  been  opposed  to  the 
North  and  South  line,  and  I  have  felt  chagrined 
that  Congress  should  undertake  to  force  upon 
us  a  boundary  which  is  not  what  we  desire. 
When  I  look  at  the  proposed  boupdaries  of 
Minnesota,  stretching  away  far  to  the  north- 
west some  five  or  six  hmidred  miles,  I  cannot 
but  think  that  there  is  a  possession  there 
which  is  not  very  desirable.  I  am  in  favor  of 
the  line  proposed  in  the  amendment.  Take 
that  line  and  contrast  it  with  that  prescribed 
by  Congress,  and  what  will  be  the  difference 
between  the  two  States  ?  Minnesota  with  the 
boundary  proposed  by  my  friend  from  Wino- 
na, would  be  an  agricultural  State,  possessing 
all  the  advantages  of  a  rich  and  inexhausti- 
ble soil  and  a  salubrious  climate ;  while  on 
the  other  hand  at  the  extreme  northern  limit 
there  is  a  countiy  great  and  inconceivable  in 
extent,  but  one  that  would  hang  upon  our 
interest  and  prosperity  lilce  an  incubus.  Wis- 
consin changed  her  condition  from  a  Tenitory 
to  a  State  under  an  Act  of  Congress  similar 
to  ours,  yet  her  Constitutional  Convention  did 
not  consider  themselves  bound  by  the  boun- 
daries therein  prescribed.  They  looked  upon 
it  as  an  open  question,  and  it  is  an  open  ques- 
tion with  us.     The  interests  of  northern  Min- 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION   DEBATES— Feidat,  July  81. 


227 


nesota  are  not  identified  with  ours  and  they 
cannot  be.  I  hope  the  amendment  of  the 
gentleman  from  TTinona  will  be  adopted. 

Mr.  NORTH,  ilr.  Chairman,  I  dislike  to 
cut  off  any  gentleman  from  making  a  speech 
on  this  question,  but  when  I  remember  the 
urgent  suggestions  of  last  evening,  to  crowd 
along  the  business,  and  get  through  some 
time,  it  strikes  me  that  we  ou^t  to  make 
better  progress. 

I  call  for  the  question  on  the  substitute. 

The  substitute  was  rejected. 
•  Mr.  COGGSTVT^iL.    Mr.  Chairman,  I  now 
ofiFer  the  following  amendment : 

"  Protidfd,  Tiowever,  That  the  following  altera- 
tion of  the  aforesaid  boundary  be  and  the  same  la 
hereby  proposed  to  the  Congress  of  the  United 
States  as  the  preference  of  the  State  of  Minnesota; 
and  if  the  same  shall  be  agreed  to  by  the  Congress 
of  the  United  States,  that  the  same  shall  ever  re- 
main obligatory  on  the  people  of  Minnesota  with- 
out any  further  act  upon  her  part,  viz :  commen- 
cing at  the  north-east  comer  of  the  State  of  Iowa 
where  the  same  terminates  in  the  channel  of  the 
Mississippi  river ;  thence  west  along  the  northern 
line  of  the  said  State  of  Iowa  to  the  line  of  longitude 
numbered  ninety-seren  degrees  west;  thence  north 
along  said  line  of  longitude  till  the  same  reafches 
the  forty-sixth  degree  of  north  latiude ;  thence 
due  east  along  said  line  of  latitude,  till  the  same 
reaches  the  centre  of  the  channel  of  the  St  Croix 
river ;  thence  down  the  main  channel  of  the  said 
river  to  the  centre  of  the  main  channel  of  the 
Mississippi  river  ;  thence  down  the  main  channel 
of  said  Mississippi  river  to  the  place  of  begin- 
ning." 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  Mr.  Chairman,  I  move 
that  the  committee  now  rise  and  report  the 
article  and  amendment  to  the  Convention, 
with  a  recommendation  that  the  amendment 
be  indefinitely  postponed.. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  Mr.  Chairman,  be- 
fore the  question  is  put,  I  wish  to  make  a  few 
remarks  in  regard  to  the  amendment. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  I  withdraw  the  mo- 
tion for  the  gentleman. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  Mr.  Ghaikmas:— I  am 
now  fully  satisfied  as  to  the  prevailing  senti- 
ments of  this  committee,  upon  this  East  and 
West  line  question,  and  what  will  be  the  fate  of 
amendment.  Nevertheless,  it  is  well  known 
that  I  represent  here,  together  with  my  friend 
upon  my  right  (Mr.  Davis)  four  counties  which 
are  more  or  less  interested  in  this  subject — 
particularly  the  county  of  Nicollet.  And  it 
being  my  duty  to  reflect  the  sentiments  of  my 


constituency,  and  her  views  in  regard  to 
this  matter,  I  should  prove  recreant  to  the 
trust  reposed  in  me,  were  I  to  omit  to  dis- 
charge my  duty  in  this  respect. 

Mr.  Chatrmax  : — I  know  that  this  commit- 
mittee  are  exceedingly  anxious  to  come  to  a 
vote  upon  this  amendment,  and  intend  to  kill 
it  by  an  overwhelming  majority,  but  I  hope 
they  will  indulge  me  a  few  moments,  and  I 
assmre  them  I  will  be  short. 

Now,  gentlemen,  open  your  maps.  My 
amendment  proposes  a  line  that  commences 
at  the  North-East  comer  of  the  State  of  Iowa, 
thence  West  to  the  seventy-seventh  degree  of 
West  longitude,  thence  North  until  it  reaches 
the  forty-sixth  degree  of  North  latitude, 
thence  East  along  said  line  of  latitude  untQ  it 
reaches  the  St  Croix  river,  thence  down  the 
main  channel  of  said  river  to  the  center  of 
the  channel  of  the  Mississippi  River,  thence 
down  the  Mississippi  to  the  place  of  beginning. 
In  my  judgment,  that  line  and  those  bounda- 
ries are  the  proper  ones.  ^T^y?  First, 
because  it  makes  the  State  nearly  square. 
Second,  because  it  makes  a  State  about  the 
size  of  Iowa — a  little  smaller  than  Missouri — 
about  the  size  of  Arkansas — about  the  size 
of  Illinois — a  little  larger  than  Indiana — a 
Uttle  smaller  than  Ohio — in  feet,  about  the 
right  size,  Sir. 

There  can  be  no  objection  to  it,  then,  on 
the  ground  of  its  not  being  of  the  right  size, 
or  of  its  being  in  a  convenient  shape,  or  in  as 
compact  form  as  possible.  No  objections  so 
far. 

Next,  it  comprises  a  tract  of  Territory 
which  at  no  very  distant  day  will  be  entirely 
settled  up,  by  a  thriving,  industrious,  intelli- 
gent population.  Sir,  it  has  been  my  good 
fortune  to  travel  somewhat  over  the  western 
portion  of  the  tract  embraced  in  my  amend- 
ment, during  the  month  of  Jime  last,  and  I 
(an  say  from  my  own  personal  observation 
that  all  along  on  the  head  waters  of  the  Des 
Moines,  on  the  eastern  branches  nmning  into 
the  Big  ^ioux,  or  the  Big  Sioux  itself,  (most 
of  which  is  inside  of  these  limits)  on  the  Big 
and  Little  Waraja,  and  indeed  the  whole 
country  there,  is  as  rich  and  fertile  as  ever 
lay  out  of  doors.  And  who  ever  lives  to  see 
ten  years  from  to-day,  will  see  upon  nearly 
every  quarter-section  in  that  whole  country 
a  thriving  and  prosperous  fermer,  and  they, 


228 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Fbiday,  Jdly  31. 


Sir,  are  the  back  bone,  the  sinew  of  our  Ter- 
ritory. In  reference  to  this  matter  of  St. 
Paul,  which  has  been  lugged  into  this  debate, 
and  the  controlling  influence  which  she  has,  or 
has  not  heretofore  exercised,  I  have  nothing 
to  say.  If  we  are  to  be  ruled  or  controlled 
by  any  of  the  Saints,  it  makes  no  difference 
to  me  whether  it  be  by  Saint  Paul,  or  Saint 
Anthony,  or  Saint  Cloud,  or  Sai?it  Peter 
Sir,  I  do  not  believe  the  people  of  Minnesota 
will  suffer  themselves  to  be  controlled  by 
any  of  these  sanctimonious  gentlemen.  But 
I  take  the  high  ground  that  in  carving  out 
oiu-  State,  and  fixing  her  boundaries,  it  is  our 
duty  to  look  somewhat  into  the  future,  and 
say  that  we  will  make  her  a  rich  and  pop- 
ulous State — a  farming  State — an  agricul- 
tural State.  As  I  have  said,  nearly  every 
quarter-section  of  land  within  these  limits  is 
capable  of  supporting  a  good  farmer — a  good 
farmer  with  a  good  large  family,  and  every 
farmer  has  a  large  family  or  ought  to  have 
one.     (Laughter.)  ^ 

Now,  Sir,  when  we  go  North  of  this  line 
of  forty-six  degrees,  what  kind  of  a  country 
do  we  find  ?  A  lumbering  country,  you  all 
admit — a  country  of  vast  and  extensive 
forests — reaching  to  the  British  Possessions, 
a  distance  of  two  hundred  and  forty  miles  in 
a  direct  line.  I  do  not  pretend  to  say  they 
are  not  valuable — that  their  lumber  is  not 
with  us  a  desideratum,  that  it  will  not  add  to 
tho  comfort  and  convenience  of  our  inhabit- 
ants, that  it  will  not  increase  our  wealth. 
But  I  do  sayi  Sir,  that  all  this  will  be  brought 
about,  and  to  the  same  extent  with  the 
boundaries  that  I  propose,  or  in  other  words, 
Mr.  Chairman,  that  this  imaginary  line  will 
not  operate  as  an  everlasting  boom,  stopping 
all  the  logs  and  lumber  at  the  line  of  forty-six 
degrees  North  latitude,  and  that  forever  after 
we  must  build  our  houses  of  bass-wood, 
poplar,  and  burr  oak. 

It  is  also  substantially  admitted  here  upon 
this  floor,  that  this  northern  re^on  will  never 
be  settled  ap  by  a  permanent,  home  abiding 
population.  When  on  a  former  occasion  we 
spoke  of  changing  the  day  of  holding  our 
general  election,  from  the  Tuesday  next  suc- 
ceeding the  first  Monday  ^of  October,  to  the 
first  of  November,  the  cry  was  raised,  "  why 
"gentlemen  we  have  a  largo  class  of  persons 
"who  start  for  the  lumber  regions  ju.st  before 


"that  time,  and  stay  during  the  winter,  and  in 
"the  spring  return,  and  if  you  do  this,  you  de- 
"prive  a  large  class  of  our  citizens  from  exer- 
"cising  the  privilege  of  the  elective  franchise." 
What  does  this  mean?  Does  it  not  mean 
that  this  whole  lumber  region  will  never  be 
occupied  by  any  other  than  a  floating  popu- 
lation, a  transient  population,  a  population 
existing  one  day  and  extinct  the  next  ?  Not 
so  south  of  this  line.  Here  you  meet  a  class 
of  persons  who  are  always  at  home,  who  have 
around  them  well  cultivated  fields,  ample 
means  for  their  sustenance  the  year  round, 
and  ten  times  the  aggregate  wealth  which  you 
find  around  the  cabin  of  the  isolated  lumber- 
man. And,  sir,  if  you  would  condescend  to 
consider  the  question  of  taxes,  the  raismg  of 
revenue  for  the  purpose  of  defi:aying  the 
legitimate  expenses  of  the  State  government, 
and  go  upon  both  sides  of  this  proposed  line 
you  would  soon  discover  the  difierence.  How 
much  could  you  raise  north  of  it?  Suppose 
you  wanted  means  to  pay  your  Governors, 
your  Secretaries  of  State,  your  judges,  your 
members  of  the  Legislature,  to  build  your 
State  houses,  your  Court  houses,  your  jails, 
your  everything  else,  where  will  you  go  to  get 
them  ?  Sir,  I  will  tell  you  where  you  will  get 
them :  you  will  get  them  among  the  farmers 
who  will  live  inside  the  boundaries  proposed 
by  my  amendment.  Where  nothing  is,  noth- 
ing can  be  obtained.  Where  an  abundance 
is,  there  is  the  place  to  ask  for  favors.  Now, 
sir,  I  wish  to  know  what  it  is  that  has  caused 
such  a  defection  in  the  ranks  of  our  East  and 
West  line  men,  what  has  come  over  the  spirit 
of  theu-  dreams  to  cause  them  to  right-about 
ftice  on  this  questipn. 

Sir,  I  do  not  pretend  to  be  posted  in  the 
history  of  this  subject,  and  I  do  wish  I  could 
blot  from  my  memory  some  matters  now 
thereon  indelibly  impressed.  I  do  wish  I 
could  not  remember  the  time,  which  has  not 
long  since  gone  by,  when  St.  Paul  herself 
recommended  the  adoption  of  an  East  and 
West  lino — when  even  the  Pioneer  and  Dem- 
ocrat recommended  it. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  A  bad  recommenda- 
tion, that. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  Perhaps  so,  Mr. 
Chairman ;  but  I  wish  I  could  forget  all  this, 
for  charity 'ssake,  and  for  the  purpose  of  show- 
ing that  many  gentlemen  who  now  oppose 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Friday,  July  SI. 


229 


this  plan  of  boundary,  are  firee  from  gross  in- 
consistencies. 

I  was  trained  in  that  school  which  taught 
me  to  believe  that  principles  were  eternal  no 
matter  how  often  men  may  change ;  and  I  ask, 
gentlemen,  how  it  is,  that  this  doctrine  of  an 
East  and  "West  line  was  correct  a  short  time 
ago,  and  wrong  now  ?  If  it  was  right  when 
advocated  by  Governors,  by  Legislatures,  by 
the  public  press,  by  private  citizens,  by  a 
majority  of  the  people  of  southern  Minne- 
sota, why,  in  the  name  of.  Heaven  is  it  wrong 
for  me  to  take  the  same  position  ?  And  with 
what  kind  of  a  grace  can  those  men  charge 
me  with  attempting  to  commit  a  gross  fraud 
upon  the  people,  upon  the  best  interests  of 
this  Territory,  with  attempting  to  engraft  into 
the  Constitution  an  arrangement  which  will 
defeat  it  before  the  people  ? 

I  do  not  see  how  it  is  that  men  can  change 
so  often ;  I  do  not  see  how  it  is  that  men  can 
so  skillfuUy  "  play  upon  a  harp  of  a  thousand 
"strings."  I  tell  you,  Mr.  Chairman,  that 
the  history  of  our  Territory  for  the  next  fifty 
years  to  come,  wiU  tell  you  in  thimder  tones, 
that  our  action  here  to-day  upon  this  subject 
was  unwise — was  clearly  wrong. 

You  may  gag  us  with  your  previous  ques- 
tions— you  may  sit  imeasy  while  listening  to 
a  rehearsal  of  these  facts,  but  I  would  be  un- 
true to  my  nature,  and  to  a  large  class  of  my 
constituents,  were  I  to  sit  by  and  see  the 
report  of  the  committee  adopted,  and  not 
enter  my  protest  against  it.  There  are  other 
points  to  which  I  would  like  to  refer,  namely : 
To  the  binding  force  of  the  action  of  this 
Convention  at  its  commencement;  to  the 
probability  of  our  Constitution  being  de- 
feated by  the  people  vrith  my  amendment 
attached,  but  I  promised  to  be  short,  and  I  quit. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.     I  now  move  that  the 
committee  rise,  report  the  article  to  the  Con- 
vention and  recommend  its  adoption. 
The  motion  was  agreed  to. 

So  the  committee  rose,  and  the  Chairman 
reported  aQcordingly. 

The  question  being  on  concurring  in  the 
recommendation  of  the  committee. 

Mr.  WILSON.  Mr.  President,  I  wish  to 
oflfer  this  paper  as  a  substitute  for  the  report. 

The  substitute  was  was  read  by  the  Secre- 
tary— the  same  as  that  submitted  by  Mr. 
Wilson  in  committee  of  the  Whole. 


The  yeas  and  nays  being  demanded,  ordered 
and  taken  upon  the  adoption  of  the  substi- 
tute, the  result  was,  yeas  fifteen,  and  nays 
thirty-seven  as  follows : 

Yeas. — Messrs.  Anderson,  Balcombe,  Billings, 
Butler,  Coggswell,  Coe,  Davis,  Grerrish,  Mantor, 
McCann,  McCnne,  Mills,  Robbins,  Thompson,  and 
Wilson. — 15. 

3ay«. — Messrs.  Aldrich,  Aver,  Baldwin,  Bates, 
Bartholomew,  BoUes,  Cleghom,  Colburn,  Coombs, 
Eschlie,  Folsom,  GaIbraith,'Hayden,  Harding,  Hud- 
son, Hanson,  Holley,  Kemp,  Lyle,  Lowe,  McClure, 
Messer,  Morgan,  Murphy,  North,  Phelps,  Perkins, 
Putnam,  Peckham,  Russell,  Stannard,  Secombe, 
Smith,  Vaughn,  Walker,  Watson,  and  Sheldon.-37. 

So  the  substitute  was  rejected. 

The  question  recurred  on  concurring  in  the 
recommendation  of  the  committee  of  the 
Whole. 

Mr.  MORGAN.  Mr.  Chairman,  I  offer 
the  following  amendment,  merely  for  the  sake 
of  accuracy  in  the  description : 

"In  the  tenth  line,  after  the  word  'said,'  and 
before  the  word  'river,'  insert '  Bois  des  Sioux.'  " 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  Mr.  President,  I 
would  inquire  whether  the  botmdaries  here 
proposed  are  not  word  for  word  the  same  with 
the  Enabling  Act? 

The  PRESIDENT.  The  Chamnan  of  the 
committee,  who  made  the  report  can  answer. 

Mr.  PERKINS.  The  words  of  the  report 
are  the  same  as  in  the  Enabling  Act. 

Mr.  MORGAN.  I  am  aware  of  that.  The 
amendment  does  not  change  the  sense.  It 
only  describes  the  line  more  distinctly. 

The  amendment  was  rejected. 

Mr.  MORGAN.  Mr.  Chairman,  I  also  offer 
an  amendment  in  the  fifteenth  line — after  the 
word  "  State,"  insert  the  words,  "  of  Iowa." 

The  amendment  was  rejected. 

Mr.  MORGAN.  I  have  also  an  amend- 
ment for  the  sixteenth  line — after  the  word 
"  said,"  and  before  the  word  "  river,"  insert 
the  word  "Mississippi." 

The  amendment  was  rejected. 

And  then,  on  the  motion  of  Mr.  THOMP- 
SON, the  rules  were  so  far  suspended  as  to 
allow  the  article  to  be  referred  to  the  commit- 
tee on  Arrangement  and  Phraseology. 

And  it  was  so  referred. 

EXGB0SS5IEST. 

Mr.  ALDRICH,  from  the  committee  on  the 
Executive  Department,  now  reported  the  arti- 
cle (report  No.  two  from  that  committee)  as 


230 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Feiday,  July  31. 


correctly  engrossed;  and  on  his  motion,  it 
was  referred  to  the  committee  on  Arrange- 
ment and  Phraseology. 

OEGANIZATION  OF   CITIES    AND  VILLAGES. 

On  motion  of  Mr.  CLEGHORN,  the  Con- 
vention resolved  itself  into  a  committee  of  the 
Whole,  Mr.  North  in  the  Chair,  to  take  into 
consideration  the  article  submitted  in  the 
report  (No.  nine)  from  the  committee  on  the 
organization  of  Cities  and  Villages. 

The  CHAIRMAN  read  the  article,  as 
follows : 

Sec.  1.  The  Legislature  shall  grant  an  Act  of 
Incorporation  establishing  the  form  of  a  City 
Government  for  any  place  or  portion  of  Territory, 
which  at  the  time  does  not  contain  a  resident  pop- 
ulation of  not  less  than  three  thousand.  Nor  shall 
the  Legislature  grant  any  special  act  for  the  incor- 
poration of  any  town  or  village  which  does  not  at 
the  time  contain  a  resident  population  of  not  less 
than  five  hundred, 

Mr.  STANNARD.  Mr.  Chairman:  I 
move  to  strike  out  from  the  section  all  after 
the  word  "  thousand  "  in  the  fourth  line. 

Mr.  BOLLES.  Mr.  Chairman  :  I  move  to 
strike  out  the  whole.  I  look  Upon  it  as  a 
mere  nullity. 

Mr.  BOLLES'  motion  was  agreed  to.  So 
the  section  was  stricken  out. 

On  the  motion  of  Mr.  THOMPSON,  the 
committee  rose,  and  the  Chairman  reported 
the  amendment  to  the  Convention. 

The  question  being  on  striking  out  the 
section — 

Mr.  MORGAN  said:  Mr.  President:  I 
wish  to  say  that  the  committee  on  this  subject 
were  ^doubtful  from  the  first,  whether  this 
whole  matter  might  not  be  safely  left  with  the 
Legislature.  But,  on  consideration,  it  was 
thought  better  to  submit  a  report,  and  allow 
the  Convention  to  say  whether  it  were  best  to 
restrict  the  Legislature  in  the  matter  of  grant- 
ing charters  to  cities  and  towns.  It  is  well 
known,  that  heretofore  the  Legislature  have 
granted  town  and  village  charters  to  a  con- 
siderable extent.  I  understand  that  forty  or 
fifty  w.ere  granted  last  winter,  though  those 
laws  have  not  yet  seen  the  light ;  and  that  a 
great  many  of  these  charters  have  been  for 
localities  where  there  were  no  inhabitants ; 
towns  whose  locations  had  never  been  visited, 
and  whose  exact  geographical  position  are  not 
yet  known.  If  the  Convention  do  not  see  fit 
to  put  any  restriction  upon  the  Legislature  in 


such  cases,  the  committee  will  be  perfectly 
content.  Their  only  design  was  to  bring  the 
question  up. 

Mr.  MURPHY.  Mr.  President  :  As  this 
report  has  been  drawn  up  with  a  great  deal 
of  labor  and  care,  and  has  doubtless  cost  the 
committee  a  good  deal  of  time  and  thought,  I 
hope  it  will  be  treated  with  due  respect  by 
the  Convention.     (Laughter.) 

Mr.  STANNARD.  I  have  no  objection  to 
the  first  part  of  the  section,  but  the  last,  I 
think,  is  wrong.  The  object  in  obtaining 
grants  of  charters  for  towns  in  the  Territory 
has  been  to  avoid  the  fee  of  the  Judge  of  the 
Court,  where  the  title  has  been  in  him,  or  to 
come  through  him — that  proprietors  might 
enter  under  the  act,  and  save  that  expense. 

The  amendment  of  the  committee  of  the 
Whole  was  adopted. 

So  the  report  was  wholly  stricken  out. 

EDUCATIONAL   INTERESTS,  AC 

On  motion  of  Mr.  NORTH,  the  Conven- 
tion resolved  itself  into  a  committee  of  the 
Whole  (Mr.  McClure  in  the  chair)  upon  the 
report  of  the  committee  on  Educational  Insti- 
tutions and  interests. 

The  report  was  read  by  sections  for  amend- 
ment. (For  report  see  proceedings  of  July 
twenty-ninth.) 

Sec.  2.  The  proceeds  of  all  lands  that  have 
been,  or  that  may  hereafter  be  granted  by  the 
United  States  for  the  support  of  schools,  which 
may  be  sold  or  disposed  of,  and  all  estates  of  de- 
ceased persons  who  may  have  died  without  leaving 
a  will  or  heir,  shall  be  and  remain  a  perpetual  fund, 
the  interest  of  which,  together  with  all  the  rents 
of  the  unsold  lands,  and  such  other  means  as  the 
Legislature  shall  provide,  shall  be  exclusively 
applied  to  the  following  objects,  viz: 

First. — The  support  and  maintenance  of  com- 
mon schools  iti  each  school  district,  and  the  pur- 
chase of  suitable  libraries  and  apparatus  therefor. 

Second. — The  residue  shall  be  appropriated  to 
the  support  and  maintenance  of  academies  and 
normal  schools,  and  suitable  Libraries  therefor. 

Mr.  McKUNE.  I  move  to  strike  out  from 
the  second  clause  of  that  section  all  after  the 
words  "  shall  be,"  and  insert  in  lieu  thereof 
the  words  "  added  to  the  perpetual  fund,"  so 
that  the  clause  will  read  "  the  residue  shall 
be  added  to  the  perpetual  fund."  I  move 
the  amendment  in  order  to  prevent  incorpora- 
tions from  getting  hold  of  the  money  which 
rightfully  belongs  to  the  common  schools. 
It  is  quite  common  for  academies  and  normal 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Fbid at,  Jcly  31. 


231 


schools  to  be  established  by  incorporated 
companies,  and  they  are  often  able  to  crush 
out  the  common  schools  of  whole  townships, 
while  at  the  same  time  there  may  be  many 
children  in  those  townships  who  are  not  able 
to  avail  themselves  of  those  high  schools.  I 
would  rather  see  the  residue  added  to  the 
perpetual  fund  for  the  support  of  common 
schools. 

Mr.  BALDWIN.  I  am  opposed  to  the 
amendment.  This  section  proposes  that  the 
fund  shall  be  first  appropriated  to  the  support 
and  maintenance  of  common  -  schools  in  each 
school  district,  and  the  purchase  of  suitable 
hbraries  and  apparatus  therefor,  and  then  the 
residue  is  to  be  applied  to  the  support  of 
academies  and  normal  schools.  Now  I 
believe  that  academies  have  a  good  efiect  upon 
common  schools,  and  tend  to  raise  the  stand- 
ard of  education.  Normal  schools  are  for  the 
pm^ose  of  educating  teachers  for  common 
schools.  These  are  very  important  interests 
in  the  State,  and  it  seems  to  me  that  they 
should  receive  aid  from  the  State. 

Mr.  FOLSOM.  As  the  matter  now  stands 
in  the  section,  I  do  not  see  how  the  fimd  can 
well  be  divided  without  much  contention,  and 
for  that  reason  I  prefer  to  see  the  residue  go 
into  the  perpetual  fund. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  I  would  inquire  if  the 
term  "  common  school"  would  not  include 
normal  schools  and  academies,  if  established 
by  legislative  provisions  ?  The  common 
schools,  I  suppose,  are  to  be  established  by  a 
law  of  the  Legislatinre,  and  they  can  doubt- 
less grade  those  schools  and  establish  some 
having  the  character  of  academies.  It  is  not 
necessarily  to  be  presumed  that  no  branch 
higher  than  reading,  writing  and  arithmetic, 
are  taught  in  common  schools.  I  think  the 
term  "  common  school"  may  cover  the  whole 
ground. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  I  move  to  amend 
the  amendment  by  inserting  the  words  "com- 
"mon  school"  before  the  word  "fund,"  so 
that  it  shall  read,  "  common  school  fund." 

Mr.  McKUNE.     I  accept  the  amendment. 

The  amendment  as  modified  was  agreed  to. 

Mr.  PECKHAM.  I  move  to  amend  the 
first  subdivision  of  the  section  by  striking  out 
the  words  "  in  each  school  district."  It  seems 
to  me  we  ought  not  to  inaugurate  a  system  of 
district  schools  at  the  very  commencement  of 


our  State  or^nization.  A  more  unfortunate 
arrangement  for  common  schools  has  never 
been  adopted  than  that  of  the  district  system. 
The  system  of  graded  schools  is  much  better. 
If  we  are  to  have  township  organizations,  it 
seems  to  me  the  schools  should  be  left  to  the 
management  of  towns,  instead  of  smaller  por- 
tions, called  districts.  Then  a  graded  system 
can  be  adopted,  by  which  the  children  and 
youth  of  the  State  will  have  the  privilege  of 
enjoying  not  only  the  primary  instruction  of 
common  schools,  but  that  of  higher,  schools, 
in  which  they  may  be  fitted  for  the  university. 
I  hope  such  a  system  will  be  adopted  as  will 
give  to  the  youth  of  the  State  the  best  possi- 
ble instruction  the  State  can  give. 
The  amendment  was  agreed  to. 

"Sec.  3.  The  Legislature  shall  within  five 
years  from  the  adoption  of  this  Constitution  pro- 
vide for  and  establish  a  system  of  common  schools, 
which  shall  be  as  nearly  uniform  as  practicable, 
whereby  a  school  shall  be  kept  without  charge  for 
tuition,  at  least  three  months  in  each  year,  in  every 
school  district  in  the  State,  and  all  instruction  in 
said  school  shall  be  in  the  English  language,  and 
no  sectarian  instruction  shall  be  allowed  therein." 

Mr.  BILLINGS.  I  move  to  strike  out  aU 
after  the  word  "  practicable"  down  to  and  in- 
cluding the  word  "  language." 

Mr.  BOLLES.  I  move  to  amend  the 
amendment  by  simply  striking  out  the  words 
"  and  all  instruction  in  said  schools  shall  be 
"  in  the  English  language." 

Mr.  BALCOMBE.  I  am  opposed  to'  the 
amendment  to  the  amendment,  and  to  the 
original  amundment  also.  I  hope  the  com- 
mittee will  not  pass  over  this  matter  in  haste. 
This  is  a  very  interesting  subject  to  me  and 
ought  to  be  to  every  member  upon  this  floor. 
A  well  digested  system  should  be  adopted. 
And  I  remark  here,  that  it  seems  to  me  that 
we  were  rather  hasty  in  taking  up  this  report 
this  afternoon,  as  it  has  but  just  been  put 
upon  our  desks,  and  we  have  not  had  time 
to  look  it  over,  reflect  upon  it,  and  contrast 
it  with  any  other  system  we  may  have  in  our 
minds.  If  any  gentleman  offers  an  amend- 
ment I  hope  he  will  be  able  to  ^ve  a  good 
reason  for  it,  and  have  it  discussed  thorough- 
ly. I  myself  was  opposed  to  the  other  amend- 
ment which  was  made.  I  am  in  favor  of  the  old 
feshioned  school  district  system,  and  in  favor 
of  firee  schools  as  much  as  three  months  in 
the  year. 


232 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Satukday,  August  1. 


But  I  do  not  profess  to  be  suflBciently  well 
posted  on  this  subject  to  discuss  it  now,  and 
if  any  gentleman  is  familiar  with  the  minutia 
of  this  matter  I  hope  he  will  give  us  his  views 
upon  it. 

Mr.  THOMPSON.  I  agree  with  the  gen- 
tleman from  Winona.  This  report  has  been 
but  just  laid  on  our  tables.  I  move  that  the 
committee  rise  and  ask  leave  to  sit  again. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to. 

The  committee  accordingly  rose  and  report- 
ed progress  and  asked  leave  to  sit  again. 

Leave  was  granted. 

Mr.  CLEGHORN.  I  move  that  this  report 
be  made  the  special  order  of  the  day  for  Mon- 
day next. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  object  to  that  for  the 
reason  that  we  have  no  other  report  before  us 
with  which  we  are  any  more  familiar  than 
with  this,  and  in  fact  I  do  not  know  as  we 
have  any  other  that  we  can  act  upon  to-mor- 
row. I  think  a  vote  of  this  kind  would  be 
equivalent  to  passing  the  day  in  idleness. 

Mr.  NORTH.  We  do  not  need  a  great 
deal  of  time  for  the  examination  of  this  re- 
port. We  can  be  prepared  to  act  upon  it  to- 
morrow, and  if  we  put  off  the  time  any 
longer  each  of  us  will  come  armed  with  so 
many  amendments  that  we  should  not  get 
through  with  it  in  one  day. 

The  motion  was  lost. 

And  then  on  motion  of  Mr.  NORTH,  (at 
five  o'clock)  the  Convention  adjourned. 


EIGHTEENTH  DAY. 

Satubday,  August  1st,  1857. 
The  Convention  met  at  nine  o'clock,  a.  m. 
The  journal  of  yesterday  was  read  and 
approved. 

LEAVE   OP   ABSENCE. 

Mr.  COLBURN  from  the  committee  on 
Leave  of  Absence  made  a  verbal  report,  re- 
commending that  leave  of  absence  be  granted 
to  Mr.  Bartholomew  until  Tuesday  the  fourth 
day  of  August. 

Leave  was  granted. 

AMENDMENT  OF  RULES. 

Mr.  THOMPSON.  I  wish  to  suggest  the 
propriety  of  amending  our  rules  so  that  after 
the  second  reading  of  a  report,  and  its  con- 


sideration in  the  committee  of  the  Whole  it 
may  be  referred  to  the  committee  on  Ai-range- 
ment  and  Phraseology.  The  reports  would 
then  be  amendable  upon  the  suggestion  of 
that  committee.  Rule  thirty-seven  now  reads : 
"  Every  article  when  read  a  third  time  and  passed 
shall  be  referred  to  the  committee  on  Arrangement 
and  Phraseology." 

I  move  to  strike  out  the  words  "  third  time 
"  and  passed,"  and  insert  "  a  second  time  and 
"  considered  in  committee  of  the  Whole." 

Mr.  BATES.  It  seems  to  me  we  shall  get 
into  trouble  by  pursuing  that  course.  How 
can  that  committee  perform  their  duty  in 
reference  to  these  reports,  until  they  are  per- 
fected ? 

Mr.  THOMPSON.  My  view  of  the  mat- 
ter was  that  by  referring  the  reports  to  that 
committee  after  a  second  reading  and  consid- 
eration in  committee  of  the  AVhole,  they  could 
report  them  back  to  the  Convention,  with  a 
recommendation  that  they  be  amended  in 
such  respects  as  they  thought  necessary. 
That  could  not  be  done  after  the  reports  are 
perfected  and  engrossed. 

The  motion  was  not  agreed  to. 

EDUCATIONAL   INSTITUTIONS,  &C. 

On  motion  of  Mr.'  HARDING  the  Conven- 
tion resolved  itself  into  the  committee  of  the 
Whole,  (Mr.  McClube  in  the  Chair)  upon  the 
report  of  the  commmittee  on  Educational  In- 
stitutions and  Interests. 

The  CHAIRMAN  stated  that  the  pending 
question,  when  the  committee  last  had  this 
subject  under  consideration,  was  a  motion  to 
strike  aU  out  after  the  word  "  practicable," 
down  to,  and  including  the  word  "language," 
in  the  third  section,  and  an  amendment  to  that 
amendment,  which  was  to  strike  out  only  the 
words,  "and  all  instruction  in  said  schools 
"  shall  be  in  the  english  language." 

Mr.  LYLE.  I  have  a  substitute  which  I 
desire  to  offer,  for  the  whole  report.  AVill  it 
be  in  order  to  offer  it  now  ? 

The  CHAIRMAN.  It  wiU  not  be  in  order 
until  the  sense  of  the  Convention  is  taken 
upon  the  pending  amendment,  or  they  are 
laid  upon  the  table. 

Mr.  H  A  YDEN.  I  move  to  lay  the  amend- 
ment, and  the  amendments  to  the  amendment 
upon  the  table. 

Mr.  BOLLES.  I  offered  the  amendment 
to  the  amendment,  and  it  seems  to  me  that 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Satcrdat,  Acgcst  1. 


233 


the  gentleman  who  moves  to  lay  it  upon  the 
table,  does  not  really  understand  the  matter. 
It  would  seem  almost  unnecessary  to  go  into 
an  argument  to  show  the  propriety  of  adopt- 
ing my  amendment.  I  hope  this  Convention 
will  not  be  guilty  of  restricting  instruction  in 
our  common  schools,  to  the  English  language. 
"We  have  a  large  population  in  this  Territory 
who  do  not  understand  English,  and  who  de- 
sire the  benefit  of  common  schools.  Some 
neighborhoods  may  think  it  desu-able  to  have 
common  schools  taught  in  some  language 
other  than  English,  and  I  should  hope  that 
we  will  regard  their  interests  and  wishes,  and 
not  restrict  our  system  in  such  a  manner  that 
they  will  be  deprived  of  the  benefits  of  com- 
mon schools. 

Again,  I  hope  we  shall  .not  festrict  the  ap- 
plication of  our  school  fund,  so  that  it  cannot 
be  applied  to  the  support  of  a  graded  system 
of  schools,  teaching  the  higher  branches. 
That  system  of  schools  has  been  established 
in  some  bf  ovir  western  States,  and  it  has 
been  found  very  acceptable  and  beneficial. 
They  prove  useful  to  the  community,  and 
many  individuals  cannot  get  a  competent  ed- 
ucation to  do  business  without  them. 

I  trust  my  amendment  wUl  be  adopted. 

Mr.  MORGAN.  I  understand  the  amend- 
ment to  be  to  strike  out  all  after  the  word 
"practicable,"  down  to  and  including  the 
word  "language."  The  amendment  to  the 
amendment,  is  to  strike  out  only  the  words : 
"  and  all  instruction  in  sard  schools  shall  be 
"  in  the  English  language." 

Now  the  last  amendment  is  included  in  the 
first — the  lesser  is  included  in  the  greater. 
It  seems  to  me  that  it  would  be  better  if  the 
gentleman  would  withdraw  the  amendment 
to  the  amendment,  imtil  the  question  is  taken 
upon  the  first  amendment. 

Mr.  HAYDEN.  I  moved  to  lay  both 
amendments  upon  the  table. 

The  CHAIRMAN.  The  motion  was  not 
seconded,  and  the  question  is  upon  the  amend- 
ment to  the  amendment. 

Mr.  SHELDON.  I  am  in  favor  of  the 
second  amendment,  but  not  in  favor  of  the 
first.  I  have  some  Uttle  acquaintance  with 
the  system  of  graded  schools  as  established 
in  the  State  of  Ohio,  and  I  am  greatly  in  &- 
vor  of  that  system,  so  far  as  circumstances 
Will  admit  of  its  adoption.  It  will  be  readily 
30 


perceived,  fix)m  the  very  idea  of  such  schools, 
that  they  cannot  be  adopted  except  where  the 
population  is  sufficiently  dense  to  afford  a 
large  nimaber  of  scholars.  It  consists  of  a 
classification  of  schools,  embracing  a  primary 
school,  a  grammar  school,  a  high  school  &c, 
or  such  nmnber  of  schools  of  different  grades 
as  circumstances  may  demand.  It  will  be 
seen  at  a  glance,  that  such  a  system  possesses 
great  advantage  in  imparting  instruction.  It 
has  been  found,  in  Ohio,  greatly  to  raise  the 
standard  of  common  school  education.  It  is 
also  econijmical,  from  the  fact  that  the  schol- 
ars are  classified  according  to  ages  and  at- 
tainments, and  these  placed  under  different 
teachers,  and  all  superintended  by  the  in- 
struction in  the  high  school  department.  It 
has  raised  up  a  class  of  accomplished  and 
efficient  teachers,  thereby  making  teaching  a 
desirable  profession,  sought  for  rather  than 
shunned.  It  has  dignified  the  business  of 
teaching. 

There  seems  to  be  an  impression  with  some 
that  a  system  of  graded  schools  conflicts  with 
the  district  system.  That  is  erroneous.  The 
two  are  consistent  with  each  other.  The  dis- 
trict system  prevails  in  Ohio,  while  the  large 
towns,  which  can  support  a  system  of  graded 
schools,  do  so.  I  do  not  see  how  the  district 
system  can  be  dispensed  with  in  rural  dis- 
tricts, where  the  number  of  scholars  are  quite 
limited. 

It  seems  to  me  that  we  are,  in  this  article, 
going  too  much  into  the  minutia  of  legislation. 
A  general  provision  should  be  adopted,  but 
we  need  not  mention  either  the  district  sys- 
tem or  the  graded  system.  Let  that  matter 
be  left  to  the  Legislature.  If  anything  is  to 
be  stricken  out  here,  I  should  favor  striking 
out  what  is  proposed  to  be  stricken  out  by 
the  second  amendment.  In  the  graded  sys- 
tem the  classics  are  taught,  and  the  poorest 
persons  in  the  land  can  pass  through  the  diff- 
erent grades  and  be  fitted  to  enter  the  higher 
institutions  of  learning. 

Mr.  BALCOMBE.  Under  ordinary  cir- 
cumstances, I  should  be  opposed  to  the  inser- 
tion of  this  section  as  reported  by  the  com- 
mittee. The  system  is  one  which  I  would 
propose  myself,  being  in  favor  of  the  old  fash- 
ioned district  school  system — the  real  demo- 
cratic system.  But,  under  present  circum- 
stances, I  am  inclined  to  believe  we  had  bet- 


^34 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Saturday,  August  1. 


ter  make  one  or  two  general  provisions  in  the 
Constitution,  and  leave  the  minutia  to  the  first 
Legislature.  I  come  to  that  conclusion  for 
the  reason  that  there  is  not  a  disposition 
among  a  majority  of  the  members  of  this 
Convention  to  remain  here  and  discuss  thor- 
oughly this  subject  and  other  subjects,  which 
are  really  matters  of  great  interest  to  the  peo- 
ple at  large.  There  is  a  disposition  to  discuss 
such  subjects  as  capital  pimishment,  women's 
•rights,  and  matters  of  that  character.  This 
is  a  subject  in  wliich  the  people  feel  more 
interest  than  in  almost  any  other.  It  will  be 
talked  over  in  the  most  distant  portions  of 
the  Territory,  more  than  any  other  subject  in 
the  Constitution.  It  will  arouse  discussion 
in  every  little  neighborhood,  and  if  we  are  to 
adopt  any  specific  system,  we  should  take  at 
least  one  full  week  for  its  consideration.  Are 
we  ready  to  do  that  ?  We  are  not  willing  to 
spend  time  over  the  most  impoi-tant  portions 
of  the  Constitution,  but  we  wiU  spend  time 
over  subjects  in  which  the  people  feel  very 
'little  interest. 

Hence  I  am  opposed  to  the  amendments, 
-and  when  they  are  voted  down,  I  shall  favor 
the  substitute  which  my  friend  upon  the  right 
(Mr.  Lyle)  has  to  offer,  which  is  general  in 
iits  nature,  leaving  the  minutia  of  the  system 
to  the  first  Legislature.  They  will  assemble 
and  remain  in  session  ninety  days,  and  have 
sufficient  time  to  perfect  this  system. 

Mr.  BOLLES.  If  the  gentleman  from 
Mower  wishes  to  offer  a  substitute,  I  will 
withdraw  my  amendment  to  the  amendment. 

Mr.  BILLINGS.  I  withdraw  the  original 
amendment. 

Mr.  LYLE.  I  offer  the  following  substi- 
tute for  the  whole  report : 

Sec.  1.  The  principal  of  all  funds,  arising  from 
the  sale  or  other  disposition  of  lands  or  other 
property,  granted  or  entrusted  to  the  State  for 
educational  purposes,  shall  forever  remain  inviq- 
latc  and  undiminished;  and  the  income  arising 
therefrom,  shall  be  faithfully  applied  to  the  specific 
objects  of  the  original  grants  or  appropriations. 

Sec.  2.  The  Legislature  shall  make  such  pro- 
visions, by  taxation  or  otherwise,  as,  with  the  in- 
come arising  from  the  school  trust  fund,  will 
secure  a  thorough  and  efBcieut  system  of  common 
schools  throughout  the  State;  but  no  religious 
sect  or  sects  shall  ever  have  any  exclusive  right 
to  or  contro^  of,  any  part  of  the  school  funds  of 
this  State. 

Mr.  BATES.    I  do  not  know  as  it  is  nec- 


essary to  make  any  remarks  upon  the  substi- 
tute, but  I  hope  it  will  be  adopted  for  the 
reason  stated  by  the  gentleman  from  Winona, 
(Mr.  Balcombe).  We  cannot  go  into  the 
minutia  of  this  matter,  and  for  that  reason  I 
am  in  favor  of  leaving  it  with  the  Legislature. 

Mr.  HUDSON.  So  far  as  I  have  read  the 
report  of  the  committee,  it  is  very  good,  but 
it  is  very  lengthy,  and,  as  has  been  remarked, 
there  are  points  which  would  necessarily  have 
to  be  discussed  at  considerable  length.  Some 
seem  to  be  in  favor  of  the  township,  and 
others,  of  the  disti'ict  system.  I  am  decidedly 
in  favor  of  the  district  system  for  this  new 
country.  I  think,  however,  that  the  sub 
stitute  covers  all  the  ground  that  we  should 
go  o'<^er  in  our  Constitution. 

Mr.  WILSON.  I  am  afraid  we  are  going 
to  take  the  back  track  without  sufficiently 
looking  at  the  matter.  The  disposition  of 
this  school  fund  is  something  we  should  be 
very  careful  about.  Look  at  Wisconsin. 
What  became  of  th«  school  fund  of  that  State  ? 
Squandered,  almost  all  of  it.  Is  it  not  nec- 
essary that  we  should  throw  some  restrictions 
around  the  disposition  of  these  school  lands, 
lest  we  should  be  served  in  the  same  manner 
as  the  people  of  Wisconsin  have  been  served  ? 
The  substitute  leaves  room  for  making  too 
much  money  by  the  Legislature,  if  there  are 
men  base  enough  to  make  it  in  that  way.  It 
is  notorious  that  Wisconsin  had  a  larger  fund 
than  any  State  ever  before  had.  We  should 
act  cautiously.  There  are  restrictions  con- 
tained in  the  report  of  the  committee,  which, 
I  think,  we  should  adhere  to. 

As  to  the  matter  of  having  the  classics 
taught  in  our  common  schools,  I  will  say  that 
I  am  in  favor  of  every  boy  and  girl  studying 
the  classics,  but  not  at  the  public  expense. 
Common  schools  should  be  preparatory  to  a 
classical  education.  I  am  in  favor  of  the 
report  as  it  stands. 

Mr.  PERKINS.  The  substitute  might  be 
modified  in  some  respects,  but  substantially 
it  is  right  and  ought  to  pass.  I  think  it  ought 
to  pass  for  the  very  reason  urged  by  the  last 
gentleman  who  spoke  against  its  passage — 
that  it  is  a  matter  of  great  importance,  if  wo 
are  going  to  have  a  large  school  fund,  that  it 
should  not  be  disposed  of  permanently  with- 
out a  great  deal  of  reflection  and  deliberation. 
Now  I  do  not  believe  that  any  gentleman  of 


MINNESOTA  CONTENTION  DEBATES— Saturday,  August  1. 


235. 


I 


this  Convention  has  bestowed  upon  the  sub- 
ject all  the  thought  he  ought  to  bestow  upon 
it,  before  advising  how  that  permanent  dispo- 
sition shall  be  made.  I  do  not  advocate  the 
adoption  of  the  substitute  for  the  same  reason 
that  one  gentleman  from  Winona  (Mr.  Bal- 
combe)  did — a  disposition  upon  tlie  part  of 
this  body  to  bestow  more  attention  upon  un- 
important rather  than  important  matters.  I 
do  not  think  that  is  the  case,  but  I  believe 
tills  Convention  is  satisfied  that  a  subject  of 
tliis  importance  requires  more  reflection, 
attention,  thought  and  care,  than  we  are  able 
to  give  to  it  at  this  time. 

I  am  in  favor  of  a  good,  thorough,  and 
efficient  system  of  district  schools,  of  the 
New  England  plan,  and  of  district  schools 
generally.  So  far  as  I  am  acquainted  with  it, 
that  system  has  worked  well,  though  it  might 
be  improved  in  some  respects,  I  have  no 
doubt.  I  am  opposed  to  this  Convention 
assuming  all  the  wisdom  which  will  ever  be 
necessary  to  lay  down  a  plan  which  shall 
forever  be  permanent.  It  is  anticipating  the 
the  wisdom  of  future  ages  to  do  it.  I  am  in 
fevor  of  progress  in  this  matter,  as  well  as  in 
other  matters,  and  for  that  reason  I  am  oppos- 
ed to  this  Convention  taking  any  action  of 
the  kind  proposed  in  the  report  of  the  com- 
mittee at  the  present  time — that  is,  detailing 
the  whole  system  of  common  schools,  and 
tying  up  the  hands  of  the  Legislature  for  all 
time  to  come. 

Mr.  PECKHAM.  The  genUeman  from 
Winona  has  told  us  that  this  is  a  very  im- 
portant matter,  and  one  in  which  the  people 
feel  a  deep  interest.  I  do  not  doubt  that  it  is 
a  matter  which  should  receive  the  grave  con- 
sideration of  this  body.  The  people  will  re- 
quire it  at  our  hands.  If  we  can  present  to 
the  people  a  system  of  public  instruction 
which  shall  be  thorough  and  at  the  same  time 
of  a  popular  cast,  it  stiikes  me  that  it  will  do 
more  to  procure  jthe  adoption  of  our  Consti- 
tution, than  any  other  measure  we  can  pro- 
pose. I  hope  we  shall  adopt  some  system — 
not  a  legislative  system  to  be  sure,  hut  one 
within  the  province  of  a  Constitution — ^which 
will  be  of  that  popular  cast,  and  shall  meet 
the  approbation  of  the  people.  It  strikes  me 
that  the  report  of  the  committee  can  be 
amended  in  such  a  way  as  to  meet  the  ap- 
probation of  a  majority  of  the  members  of 


this  Convention,  and  commend  itself  to  their 
good  sense  and  better  judgment.  We  need  a 
system  of  education  which  shall  be  thorough, 
and  economical,  and  for  that  reason  I  have 
been  opposed  to  the  district  system,  and  in 
fevor  of  the  graded  system  and  I  desire  that 
the  way  may  be  left  open  so  that  the  graded 
system  can  be  adopted  wherever  it  is  practi- 
cable. Adopt  the  district  system,  and  you 
render  it  impossible,  in  any  general  degree, 
to  adopt  the  graded  system  with  a  primary^ 
i  secondary,  grammer,  and  high  school  depart- 
I  ments.  And  even  if  mixed  schools  are  to  be 
the  system  of  the  future,  I  am  opposed  ta 
cutting  up  our  townships  into  smaller  por- 
tions, called  districts.  Take  a  township,  for 
instance,  and  divide  it  up  into  nine  districts, 
giving  an  equal  number  of  schools  to  each  of 
those  districts,  and  fix  the  district  lines ;  and 
I  ask  you  how  long  it  will  be  before  they  will 
want  to  change  those  Unes,  in  order  to  equal- 
ize the  schools,  as  the  country  settles  up  ?  In 
my  opinion  there  would  not  he  a  township  in 
the  State,  which  would  not  want  to  change  in 
less  than  five  years.  Can  you  change  those 
lines  readily  ?  The  districts  become,  in  the 
eyes  of  the  people,  a  sort  of  municipal  corpo- 
ration, and  they  are  generally  unwilling  that 
any  changes  should  be  made.  Besides,  there 
is  a  practical  difficulty  arising  out  of  the  fact 
that  the  school  houses  are  erected  at  the  ex- 
pense of  the  districts,  and  a  change  might 
subject  individuals  to  the  burthen  of  taxation 
for  school  houses,  several  times  in  the  course 
of  a  few  years. 

Let  the  whole  matter  be  in  the  hands  of 
the  town  organizations ;  let  them  select  a  com- 
petent committee  to  control  the  matter,  and 
to  see  to  the  selection  of  teachers,  and  you 
have  a  much  more  efficient  board  than  would 
be  selected  by  the  different  districts,  where 
the  principle  of  rotation  in  office  would  natu- 
rally exist.  Let  the  town  committee  draw 
the  district  lines  from  year  to  year,  and  let 
the  school  houses  be  buUt  by  the  town,  and 
the  teachers  selected  by  the  committee  and  be 
sent  to  those  districts  for  which  they  are  best 
adopted.  I  say,  then,  that  if  we  adopt  the 
system  of  mixed  schools,  there  is  no  neces- 
sity of  a  district  system.  There  are  evils 
connected  with  a  district  system.  If  a  Con- 
vention to  revise  this  Constitution  were  ta 
meet  ten  years  from  thia  time,  it  would  be  im- 


288 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Satukdat,  August  1. 


possible  to  abolish  that  district  system,  and 
establish  in  its  place  anything  like  a  graded 
system  in  the  State,  because  of  the  feeling  of 
attachment  towards  the  district  organizations, 
which  springs  up  fi-om  usage  and  custom.  I 
hope  that  neither  the  substitute  nor  the  re- 
port itself  will  be  adopted  without  some  al- 
terations. 

Mr.  NORTH.  I  have  almost  come  to  the 
conclusion  that  the  gentleman  from  Winona 
\yill  change  his  opinion  in  regard  to  the  dis- 
position of  this  Convention  to  discuss  mat- 
ters of  importance.  There  seems  to  be  a 
disposition  to  discuss  even  school  questions, 
and  perhaps  before  we  get  through  with  it, 
we  shall  have  as  much  talk  upon  it  as  we  had 
upon  the  rights  of  married  women,  and  upon 
capital  punishment. 

I  am  very  indifferent  as  to  the  adoption  of 
this  report,  but  there  is  one  thing  which  has 
not  been  referred  to  either  in  the  report,  or  in 
the  substitute,  and  to  my  mind  more  impor- 
tant than  the  system  itself,  which  we  propose 
to  adopt :  and  that  is  the  matter  of  guarding 
these  lands,  to  prevent  their  being  squandered 
as  they  have  been  in  some  States.  They 
should  be  protected  from  those  schemes  of 
rascality  by  which,  in  the  State  of  Wisconsin, 
they  have  lost  many  hundred  thousand  dol- 
lars of  their  school  fund.  It  seems  to  me 
that  we  should  throw  a  safe-guard  around 
them,  and  then  I  am  willing  to  leave  the  de- 
tails of  a  school  system  to  the  Legislature. 
It  strikes  me,  that  if  each  county  could  be 
made  the  guardian  of  the  school  fund  within 
its  own  limits,  that  there  would  be  a  division  of 
responsibility.  It  would  place  the  care  of  those 
lands  within  the  supervision  of  those  directly 
interested  in  them,  and  who  would  watch  and 
guard  them  from  corrupt  schemes,  better  than 
could  possibly  be  done  by  having  them  all  go 
to  form  a  consolidated  fund  for  the  whole 
State.  If  we  should  be  as  unfortunate  in  re- 
gard to  State  officers,  as  they  have  been  in 
Wisconsin,  it  would  be  possible  for  ,them  to 
pursue  the  same  scheme  that  was  pursued 
there.  But  if  the  fund  is  divided  up,  so  that 
each  county  should  have  the  control  of  its 
own  land,  the  State  officers  would  not  have 
much  control  over  it.  Then  if  one  man,  hav- 
ing the  management  of  a  portion  of  the  fuud, 
should  prove  dishonest,  he  could  not  do  so 
much  ini.schief.     I  think  that  division  of  pow- 


er, is  a  democratic  and  safe  rule  to  apply  gen- 
erally, and  I  would  adopt  and  follow  it  out 
scrupulously,  in  regard  to  school  lands  of  this 
State.  I  think  if  we  can  adopt  some  system 
of  the  kind  by  which  we  should  divide  the  res- 
ponsibility, and  put  the  trust  in  the  hands  of 
those  most  immediately  interested,  the  fund 
.will  be  guarded  more  carefully,  and  more 
schools  be  kept,  than  if  the  fund  were  in- 
trusted here  at  the  Capitol,  in  the  hands  of 
one,  two  or  three  men. 

Mr.  BALGOMBE.  The  substitute  brings 
up  the  question  immediately,  whether  we  are 
going  to  fix  upon  a  school  system  in  our  Con- 
stitution, or  whether  we  will  simply  provide 
for  a  sale  of  the  public  school  lands,  and  leave 
the  system  of  schools  to  be  established  by 
the  Legislature.  That  question  I  should  like 
to  hear  discussed  and  settled  before  w^e  pro- 
ceed to  frame  an  article  in  the  Constitution  in 
reference  to  the  matter.  If  we  are  not  to 
provide  for  a  particular  system,  but  are 
simply  going  to^throw  restrictions  around  the 
Legislature,  as  to  the  manner  in  which  they 
shall  dispose  of  the  school  lands,  then  there 
need  be  no  discussion  Tipon  the  various  sys- 
tems proposed.  If  we  decide  to  jBx  upon  a 
system,  we  haye  got  ourselves  into  a  week's 
discussion.  I  propose  to  discuss  that  ques- 
tion myself,  if  we  come  to  that  decision,  and 
I  hope  gentlemen  will  make  up  their  minds  to 
discuss  it  for  a  week,  for  it  is  a  matter  of  very 
great  importance.  And  I  suppose,  too,  that 
no  two  members  of  the  Convention  would 
now  agree  upon  any  particular  system  as  a 
whole.  I  have  not  yet  heard  a  single  gentle- 
man express  my  \'iews,  and  I  presume  the 
same  is  the  case  with  other  gentlemen. 

Mr.  WILSON.  I  hope  members  will  take 
this  matter  into  serious  consideration.  J 
agree  exactly  with  my  friend  from  Rice 
county  (Mr.  North.)  I  do  not  care  so  much 
about  our  system  of  schools — for  that  can  be 
regulated  by  the  Legislaturcr— as  I  do  about 
securing  the  school  fund  from  waste  and  pecu- 
lation. I  do  want  the  sale  of  these  lands 
restricted,  so  that  the  Legislature,  the  State 
officers,  or  any  others,  cannot  squander  the 
funds.  If  we  make  a  mistake  in  that  respect 
wo  cannot  rectify  it.  If  the  Legislature  rnakcs 
a  mistake  as  to  the  system  of  schools,  it  can 
be  rectified. 

Mr.  McKUNE.     I  hope  the  substit\ite  will 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Saturday,  August  1. 


237 


«ot  prevail.  "We  should  throw  the  disposi- 
tion of  these  lands  as  directly  into  the  hands 
of  the  people  as  we  possibly  can.  The 
people  have  suffered  so  much  from  legislative 
acts,  that  they  are  afraid  to  trust  those  lands 
to  them.  They  expect  that  this  Convention 
will  lay  down  in  detail,  a  plan  for  their  dispo- 
sition, so  as  to  secure  them  against  legislative 
corruption.  They  expect  tlijs  body  to  throw 
such  restrictions  around  the  Legislature,  that 
it  will  be  impos^ble  for  them  to  squander  the 
school  fund.  I  hope  that  this  committee  will 
xise  and  report  progress,  and  this  Convention 
will  refer  this  report  back  to  the  standing 
committee,  with  instructions  to  report  to  the 
Convention  a  plan  by  which  the  counties  shall 
have  the  disposal  of  the  school  lands  within 
their  respective  limits,  and  that  the  people  of 
each  district  shall  have  the  privilege  of  fixing 
their  own  time  for  the  sale  of  those  lands. 
I  move  that  the  committee  rise  and  report 
progress.  And  then  in  Convention  I  will 
make  the  other  motion. 

Mr.  BALGOMBE.  I  hope  we  shall  first 
settle  the  question  whether  or  not  we  are  to 
prescribe  a  system  of  schools  in  detail. 

Mr.  ilcKUNE.  I  withdraw  the  motion  for 
the  present. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  In  regard  to  the  sug- 
gestion that  the  counties  should  be  the  guardi- 
ans of  the  lands  within  the  respective  counties, 
it  strikes  me  that  it  is  entirely  impracticable. 
Some  of  the  very  smallest  counties  in  the 
State,  possessing  but  a  very  small  amount  of 
school  lands,  may  have  the  largest  population, 
and  be  entitled  to  the  largest  portion  of  the 
school  fund.  You  propose  to  make  a  system 
with  a  thousand  heads,  as  it  were,  and  every 
body  in  that  matter  is  to  have  the  control. 
What  is  every  body's  business,  seems  to  be 
nobody's  business.  The  money  should  be 
put  into  one  fund  for  the  benefit  of  the  whole 
State,  to  be  divided,  not  according  to  counties 
and  districts,  but  according  to  the  number  of 
children  to  be  educated.  A'll  we  need  in  this 
matter  is  is  to  throw  such  safeguards  around  the 
fund  as  to  prevent  it  from  being  squandered. 
A  plan  which  has  frequently  occmred  to  my 
mind,  is  this,  that  the  money  arising  from  the 
sale  of  school  lands  should  be  funded,  that 
.the  servants  of  the  State  should  have  charge 
of  that  fund,  and  that  the  credit  of  the  State 
should  be  pledged  for  its  .s^fe  keeping.    That 


will  make  the  school  fund  as  safe  as  the  State 
itself.  The  officers  of  the  State,  it  is  true, 
may  cheat  the  State,  but  still  the  faith  of  the 
State  is  pledged  to  reimburse  that  fund,  and 
it  is  preserved  for  the  benefit  of  the  children 
of  the  State.  It  is  the  most  important  fund 
we  have,  and  why  should  not  the  State  pledge 
its  faith  for  its  safe  keeping. 

As  to  the  report  of  the  committee,  although 
it  embraces  a  very  good  school  system,  yet  it 
may  not  be'the  system  we  want.  It  is  tread- 
ing on  dangerous  ground,  to  go  to  work  now 
and  form  an  entire  system,  and  if  we  do  not 
form  an  entire  system,  it  is  more  dangerous 
still  to  form  a  part.  "We  want  to  provide  for 
a  proper  sale  of  these  lands;  we  want  to 
place  the  fund  so  that  it  shall  be  securely 
kept,  and  we  want  to  provide  that  it  shall  be 
sacredly  applied  to  the  purposes  for  which  it 
was  designed.  If  we  can  provide  for  those 
three  things  in  the  Constitution,  it  is  all  we 
need  do. 

Mr.  BATES.  The  question  is  one  of  deep 
interest  and  importance  to  us  all,  and  so  far 
as  inaugurating  a  complete  school  system  in 
the  Constitution  is  concerned,  I  do  not  think 
it  is  practicable  to  do  it.  If  we  decide  upon 
a  system,  the  future  wants  and  conditions  of 
the  State  may  require  a  change,  and  that 
could  not  be  done  without  a  revision  of  the 
Constitution. 

The  gentleman  from  "Winona  (Mr.  "Wilson) 
says  he  is  opposed  to  the  substitute,  because 
he  wishes  to  guard  against  fraud,  and  he  re- 
ferred to  the  Constitution  of  Wisconsin.  I 
have  been  looking  at  the  provisions  of  the 
Wisconsin  Constitution,  which  are  very  elab- 
orate upon  this  subject,  and  yet  perhaps  there 
is  no  State  in  which  the  school  funds  have 
been  so  squandered.  This  substitute  propo- 
ses first,  that  the  principal  arising  from  the 
sale  of  school  lands  shall  forever  remain  invi- 
olate ;  and  second,  that  the  income  shall  be 
faithfully  applied  to  the  specific  objects  of  the 
original  grants  and  appropriations.  If  in  ad- 
dition to  that  we  can  add  some  provision  in 
regard  to  the  manner  of  the  sale  of  those 
lands,  I  have  no  objection.  Two  of  the 
points  referred  to  by  the  gentleman  from  Scott 
'  county,  (Mr.  Galbraith)  are  provided  for  in 
the  substitute,  and  the  third  can  easily  be. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  am  myself  satisfied 
that  the  report  of  the  committee  is  an  able 


238 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Saturday,  August  1. 


one,  but  I  agree  with  many  gentleman  here, 
that  it  is  not  proper  for  us  to  go  into  the  details 
of  an  arrangement  of  a  school  system  in  the 
Constitution.  I  like  the  suggestions  of  my 
friend  from  Rice  county  (Mr.  North)  in 
regard  to  the  disposal  of  these  school  lands — 
that  the  counties  should  have  the  manage- 
ment and  disposal  of  the  lands  within  their 
respective  limits.  The  gentleman  from  Scott 
county,  (Mr.  Galbraitii)  objects  to  it,  on  the 
ground  that  some  of  the  counties,  having  a 
small  amount  of  school  lands,  liave  a  large 
population,  and  to  them  he  thinks  that  plan 
would  work  imfairly.  That  is  the  very  rea- 
son why  I  desire  it.  It  is  well  known  that 
in  sparsely  populated  counties  it  costs  several 
times  as  much  to  educate  a  child  as  it  does  in 
St.  Paul  and  other  large  places.  The  children 
of  those  counties  are  scattered  over  a  large 
tract  of  Territory,  and  it  costs  more  to  sup- 
port schools  for  them.  They  must  either 
have  more  money  expended  for  their  benefit, 
or  have  less  time  in  which  to  receive  their 
education.  There  seems  to  me  nothing  unfair 
or  unjust  in  letting  each  county  have  the  ben- 
efit of  the  lands  within  its  limits.  Each 
county  would  be  interested  in  the  disposal  of 
its  lands.  I  think  a  law  might  be  passed  to 
meet  the  objection  the  gentleman  suggested, 
of  leaving  this  matter  to  too  many  heads. 
There  need  be  no  conflict  of  authority.  I  be- 
lieve such  a  plan  has  been  adopted  in  some 
of  the  States,  and  it  has  given  general  satis- 
faction. Such  was  the  case  in  Illinois,  though 
in  some  portions  of  the  State  the  thing  was 
badly  managed. 

I  am  also  of  opinion  that  the  substitute 
might  be  improved,  yet  I  prefer  the  substitute 
to  the  report  itself.  It  has  been  said  that  it 
was  desirable  that  we  should  have  a  decision 
in  the  first  place,  of  the  question  whether  we 
would  go  into  the  details  of  a  system.  In 
regard  to  that,  I  would  say  that  I  am  deci- 
dedly opposed  to  it.  It  is  suggested  by  some 
gentleman  near  mc  that  in  Illinois  the  lands 
were  given  to  each  Congressional  district. 
But  I  tliink  the  principle  will  work  well  by 
giving  them  to  the  counties.  I  am  not  partic- 
ular, but  I  think  it  is  decidedly  better  than 
to  leave  the  matter  in  the  manner  recommended 
by  the  report. 

Mr.  MORGAN.  I  am  in  favor  of  the  sub- 
stitute and  opposed  to  the  report.     I  am  op- 


posed to  the  report  because  it  looks  to  the 
establishment  of  a  system  of  common  schools. 
It  points  to  a  particular  system  to  be  estab- 
lished hereafter  by  the  Legislature.  There 
arc  at  this  time  in  tliis  Territory,  two  systems 
of  common  schools — the  common  school  sys- 
tem, and  the  graded  system ;  the  former  apply- 
mg  to  the  farming  portion  of  the  country, 
while  the  latter  prevails  in  some  of  the  towns 
under  the  special  acts  of  the  Legislature.  In 
St.  Paul,  St.  Anthony,  Minneapolis,  and 
other  places,  they  have  the  graded  system, 
and  have  built  school  houses  with  reference 
to  it.  And  it  will  always  be  found  necessary 
to  have  two  systems. 

In  order  to  provide  for  placing  these  lands 
under  the  control  of  the  counties,  it  seems  to 
me,  that  we  have  got  to  go  into  a  little  matter  of 
legislation.  We  shall  have  to  provide  the  way 
in  which  the  lands  shall  be  distributed  and 
handed  over  to  the  counties,  and  the  mode  in 
which  the  counties  shall  dispose  of  them 
hereafter.  Now  I  am  opposed  to  going  into 
that  kind  of  legislation,  and  it  seems  to  me 
that  the  substitute  is  the  best  thing  we  caa 
adopt.  It  is  a  copy  of  the  provision,  on  that 
subject,  from  the  Constitution  of  Oliio ;  and  I 
have  yet  to  learn  that  it  did  not  serve  a  good 
purpose  in  that  State.  In  Wisconsin  the 
difficulty  grew  out  of  the  manner  of  disposing 
of  the  lands,  and  we  cannot  very  well  guard 
against  fraud  of  that  kind,  unless  we  go  inta 
very  special  legislation.  That  should  be  done 
by  the  Legislature.  It  is  impossible  to  shut 
all  these  doors  against  fraud.  We  can  only 
adopt  general  provisions  and  leave  minor 
matters  to  the  Legislature. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  I  hope  the  report  will 
be  recommitted.  There  is  a  diversity  of  opinion 
here,  and  I  hope  that  the  committee  will  re- 
port something  like  the  substitute. 

I  am  opposed  to  a  great  many  of  the  ideas 
which  have  been  advanced  here,  and  one  of 
them  is  in  reference  to  this  county  arrange- 
ment. That  seems  to  me  impossible.  The 
report  contemplates  other  sources  of  revenue 
to  the  school  fund,  besides  what  arises  from 
the  sale  of  the  lands.  I  think  there  should 
be  a  revenue  raised  in  addition  to  the  school 
fund  proper,  and  where  is  the  gentleman  that 
will  say  but  that  all  the  proi)erty  of  the  State 
.«;hould  ])e  taxed  and  added  to  that  school 
fund,    if   necessary?    Why?    Here  is   one 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Saturday,  August  1. 


239 


county  in  which  there  is  a  large  city,  and  the 
school  fund  is  small  compared  ■with  the  num- 
ber of  children,  and  that  portion  of  the  school 
fund  proper,  which  would  go  to  the  rural  dis- 
tricts of  that  county,  would  be  too  small  to 
support  schools.  The  provision  made  by 
Congress  is  generous  and  ample,  and  I  am 
disposed  to  make  its  benefits  general. 

Mr.  NORTH.  I  offer  the  following  as  an 
additional  section : 

"The  school  lands  in  each  county  shall  be  a 
perpetual  fund  for  the  support  of  common  schools 
in  such  county,  and  shall  be  disposed  of  in  small 
parcels  to  the  high^t  bidder,  and  the  proceeds 
thereof  shall  be  kept,  loaned,  or  invested  within 
the  county  in  such  manner  as  shall  be  provided  by 
law." 

There  is  no  reason  why  such  a  provision 
should  not  be  incorporated  into  the  Constitu- 
tion. If  all  the  school  lands  are  to  be  loaned 
and  vested  in  one  fund  f(5r  the  whole  State, 
how  is  it  to  be  disposed  of,  and  how  is  it  to 
be  invested  to  bring  in  an  income  ?  Is  it  to 
be  done  in  the  same  manner  as  in  some  of  the 
other  States  ?  In  New  York  they  have  loan 
committees  in  each  comity,  to  loan  such 
monies.  They  are  entrusted  with  the  fund 
to  be  loaned  upon  bond  and  mortgage  from 
year  to  year,  and  they  have  charge  of  the 
proceeds.  If  that  is  the  plan  to  be  adopted 
here — and  I  do  not  know  of  a  safer  one,  if 
there  is  to  be  but  one  fund — it  will  be  scat- 
tered abroad  in  many  hands,  and  if  one  prove 
a  defaulter,  the  injury  resulting  will  be  less. 
If  that  is  to  be  the  plan,  why  would  it  not  be 
better  to  let  each  county,  on  the  start,  have 
its  own  fund,  and  avoid  the  necessity  of  going 
through  all  the  machinery  of  having  the  funds 
first  sent  to  the  Capital,  and  thence  distribu- 
ted again  all  over  the  State  ?  It  is  like  collec- 
ting a  missionary  fund  here  to  be  sent  to 
New  York,  and  they  sending  back  some 
laborer  here  upon  the  very  ground  where  the 
fund  was  raised.  Is  there  not  more  danger 
of  its  being  lost  by  that  course,  than  there 
would  be  in  keeping  it  in  the  counties  where 
the  lands  are  originally,  and  where  the  funds 
are  to  be  invested  and  loaned  ?  It  seems  to 
me  that  that  is  the  most  sensible,  direct,  and 
practicable  mode  of  proceeding. 

There  is  another  reason  why  I  would  put 
in  a  provision  that  the  lands  should  be  sold 
in  small  parcels,  and  to  the  highest  bidder. 
It  is  that  the  man  of  moderate  means  may 


give  the  full  value  of  the  lands.  If  by  the 
management  of  public  officers,  they  were 
permitted  to  be  offered  in  large  quantities, 
men  of  small  means  would  not  be  able  to 
buy,  and  men  of  large  means  would  get  them 
at  much  below  their  actual  value.  By  selling 
them  in  small  parcels,  they  will  produce  the 
largest  possible  fund. 

Another  reason  is,  that  throughout  this 
Territory  there  is  a  prevailing  disposition  to 
make  claims  upon  these  school  lands,  in  hopes 
that  by  some  management  the  occupants  of 
such  lands  will  be  privileged  above  others, 
and  thereby  be  able  to  get  their  lands  at  one 
tenth  their  value.  I  would  put  a  check  upon 
that  thing,  and  stop  it  now,  for  if  it  is  allowed 
to  proceed,  the  school  fund  of  this  Territory, 
as  a  whole,  will  not  be  one-tenth  of  what  it 
should  be.  I  would  make  the  provision  now, 
that  the  public  may  understand  the  arrange- 
ment, and  avoid  putting  themselves  to  great 
inconvenience  in  the  hope  of  making  a  large 
haul  out  of  the  school  lands. 

Mr.  GERRISH.  I  am  opposed  to  that 
additional  section,  because  there  are  large 
counties  in  the  pine  country,  which  would 
have  a  large  school  fund,  and  no  need  for  it. 
Such  a  distribution  would  be  extremely  une- 
qual. I  think  it  would  be  better  to  divide  it 
throughout  the  Territory,  and  then  all  the 
inhabitants  would  receive  the  benefits  of  it  in 
proportion  to  numbers. 

Mr.  NORTH.  I  would  suggest  that  if 
there  are  no  inhabitants,  tliose  counties  would 
need  no  schools. 

Mr.  GERRISH,  But  where  would  the 
money  go  to? 

Mr.  LOWE.  I  thought  this  Convention 
had  come  to  the  conclusion  that  they  would 
put  no  questionable  provision  into  the  Consti- 
tution. I  do  not  know  but  the  proposition  of 
the  gentleman  Irom  Rice  county  is  a  proper 
one,  but  it  is  one  upon  which  I  feel  entirely 
incompetent  to  form  an  opinion.  It  is,  at  any 
rate,  a  questionable  proposition,  and  if  it  be 
inserted  in  the  Constitution,  whether  it  be 
right  or  wrong,  it  will  inaugurate  a  new  policy, 
which,  from  the  nature  of  the  case,  wiU  be 
severely  censured  and  questioned.  For  that 
reason,  I  hope,  if  the  repoyt  is  recommitted  to 
the  committe  for  re-consideration,  it  will  go 
without  the  endorsement  of  this  Convention. 
The  proposition  is  one  which,  were  I  sitting 


240 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Satueday,  AutiusT  1. 


as  a  legislator,  I  would  consider  favorably,  but 
I  dislike  to  be  compelled  to  make  up  my  mind 
upon  the  question,  as  a  member  of  a  Consti- 
tutional Convention.  The  idea  of  putting 
such  a  provision  into  the  Constitution,  seems 
to  me  erroneous,  whether,  in  itself,  right  or 
wrong. 

Mr.  KEMP.  If  I  understand  the  proposi- 
tion of  the  gentleman  from  Rice,  it  is  that 
each  county  shall  take  its  own  school  land  and 
fund,  and  hold  it  upon  its  own  account,  with- 
out its  being  at  all  connected  with  the  general 
fund  of  the  Territory.  I  think  that  would  be 
unjust,  and  as  an  example,  I  refer  to  my  own 
county — Wabashaw.  That  county  is  mostly 
situated  upon  the  Half-Brced  tract,  and  they 
have  no  school  lands  at  aU.  There  was  no 
reserve  of  lands  for  school  purposes  in  that 
tract.  Of  course  she  would  suffer  from  the 
proposed  course,  and  we  should  have  no 
school  fund  at  all.  To  obviate  that  difficulty, 
and  prevent  that  injusticej  the  fund  should  be 
a  general  one,  and  distributed  according  to 
population.  There  are  other  counties  which 
would  suffer  in  a  similar  manner.  Some 
counties  thickly  settled,  have  a  small  school 
fund,  while  others  have  a  sparse  population 
and  a  large  school  fund. 

Mr.  HAYDEN.  I  am  rather  of  opinion 
that  by  this  time  my  friend  from  Winona 
(Mr.  Balcombe)  will  conclude  ho  was  not 
exactly  a  prophet,  when  he  said  the  Conven- 
tion were  not  wiUing  to  debate  this  question, 
and  that  no  interest  was  felt  here  upon  the 
subject,  for  I  see  there  is  quite  an  interest, 
and  no  end  to  debate; 

For  myself,  I  am  in  favor  of  the  substitute 
rather  than  the  report,  and  although  I  believe 
that  report  is  a  good  one,  yet  I  suppose  the 
committee  will  not  consider  it  discourteous  if 
we  prefer  something  else.  The  substitute  has 
been  referred  to  as  being  very  concise,  and  as 
avoiding  legislation,  and  that  is  one  of  the 
reasons  why  I  prefer  it.  I  think  the  first 
section  of  the  substitute  does  about  as  much 
to  guard  against  fraud  in  the  sale  of  the 
school  lands,  as  can  be  done  by  us. 

Much  has  been  said  in  regard  to  diflercnt 
school  systems.  I  am  ready  to  say,  as  an 
individual,  that  I  prefer  the  district  system. 
My  friend  upon  my  right  (Mr.  Peckiiam)  has 
spoken  in  favor  of  graded  schools.  I  am 
aware  that  in  certain  localities  thoy  may  be 


the  best,  but  I  assure  that  gentleman  that 
from  my  experience  in  this  matter,  I  know 
they  will  not  work  v.'cll  in  the  rural  portions 
of  the  country;  Small  scholars  cannot  at- 
tend such  schools  without  great  mconveni- 
ence.  Hence  it  is  important  that  the  matter 
should  be  so  leftj  that  the  rural  districts  majr 
have  district  schools.  The  system  of  dis= 
trict  schools  was  practically  established  in  the 
State  from  which  I  came,  and  I  am  of  opin- 
ion that  the  New  England  States  had  as  good 
a  system  as  any.  I  am  sure  that  as  many 
teachers  have  been  sdnt  forth  from  the  New 
England  States,  as  from  Sny  portion  of  the 
union.  I  am  hence  opposed  to  going  on  here, 
and  incorporating  any  system  at  length,  into 
the  Constitution. 

My  friend  from  "Winona  (Mr.  Wilson)  has 
remarked  that  there  was  danger  of  corruption 
in  future  legislation.  I  think  that  a  short 
time  since,  he  stated  in  an  argument,  that  this 
body  appeared  to  believe  that  we  were  the 
only  honest  and  honorable  body  that  would' 
ever  assemble  in  the  Capitol.  But  to-day^ 
his  argument  has  appeared  very  differently. 
I  think  this  substitute  is  all  that  is  needed  in 
the  Constitution,  and  for  one,  I  am  willing  to 
leave  the  rest  to  the  Legislature. 

As  to  the  section  proposed  by  the  gentle- 
man from  Rice  County,  I  am  in  favor  of  it,- 
and  I  do  not  know  but  I  would  be  willing  to 
go  a  little  further.  I  am  in  favor  of  it  for  this 
reason  :  in  my  native  State,  the  fund  was  left, 
not  to  the  counties,  but  to  the  towns,  and  if 
I  understand  the  subject,  that  course  might 
be  adopted  here.  It  worked  well  there.  But 
whether  we  go  as  far  as  that  or  not,  I  am  sat- 
isfied that  it  is  better  to  give  the  counties  the 
control  of  the  fund,  rather  than  the  State. 
But  some  object  that  large  and  populous  places 
would  not  get  their  share.  It  is  usually  the 
case  that  such  places  have  their  peculiar  fa- 
cilities and  advantages,  over  the  rural  districts, 
in  educating  their  children  which  the  rural 
districts  have  not.  Hence  I  think  the  thing 
is  about  equal. 

Again  the  gentleman  across  the  way  (Mr, 
Kemp)  told  us  that  his  county  was  situated 
upon  the  half-breed  tract,  and  consequently 
that  there  were  no  school  lands  there.  1 
think  that  if  they  arc  within  the  proposed 
boundaries  of  the  State,  there  are  school 
lands  there.    The  Enabling  Act  was  as  follows : 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Saturday,  August  1. 


241 


"  Sections  numbered  sixteen  and  thirty-six  in 
every  township  of  public  land  in  said  State,  and 
when  either  of  said  sections  or  any  part  thereof 
has  been  sold,  or  otherwise  been  disposed  of,  other 
lands  equivalent  and  contiguous  as  may  be,  shall 
be  granted  to  said  State  for  the  use  of  schools." 

I  am  of  opinion  that  under  that  section, 
two  sections  of  every  township  in  that  county 
must  be  school  lands. 

Mr.  PECKHAM.  I  was  misunderstood  by 
the  gentleman  who  has  just  taken  his  seat. 
In  the  remarks  I  made  in  regard  to  the  dis- 
trict and  the  graded  system  of  schools.  I  did 
not  wish  to  be  understood  as  being  in  favor 
of  adopting  the  graded  system  throughout  the 
entire  state,  but  .that  the  district  system  was 
not  necessary  in  order  to  the  adoption  ^of 
mixed  schools;  that  where  mixed  schools 
were  adopted,  we  might  just  as  well  abolish 
the  district  system  as  to  retain  it,  and  that 
we  cannot  maintain  the  graded  system  where 
the  district  system  exists.  I  wished  the  dis- 
trict system  rejected  in  order  that  the  people 
might,  if  they  desired  it,  and  if  their  popu- 
lation and  niunber  of  children  would  admit 
of  it,  establish  the  graded  system.  I  did  not 
advocate  the  universal  adoption  of  the  graded 
system,  though  I  think  the  graded  system 
might  be  adopted  to  a  greater  extent,  than 
gentlemen  seem  to  suppose.  In  every  town- 
ship there  might  be  established  a  central  high 
school,  and  several  primary  and  grammer 
schools,  scattered  around  as  the  wants  of  the 
people  demanded.  But  if  the  population  is 
so  sparse  that  such  a  system  cannot  be  adop- 
ted, the  people  are  authorized  to  maintain  a 
system  of  mixed  schools,  although  the  district 
system  be  not  in  existence. 

Mr.  WILSON.  I  am  opposed  to  this  county 
system,  for  the  reasons  given  by  two  of  my 
colleagues.  One  stated  that  in  Wabashaw 
County,  there  were  no  school  lands.  That  is 
true,  also,  in  respect  to  a  great  portion  of 
Winona  County,  and  that  is  a  reason  why  it 
will  not  answer  for  that  county.  My  friend 
from  Winona  (Mr.  Gebbish)  asks  what  we 
would  do  in  reference  to  the  pine  re^ons. 
There  are  school  sections  there  much  more 
valuable  than  those  in  the  populated  coimties, 
and  yet  no  necessity  for  schools.  They  have 
a  school  fund  much  greater  than  that  of 
counties  where  they  need  a  large  fund. 

Again  take  Winona  County.  She  may 
31 


have  a  school  section  upon  a  bluff,  which  is 
not  worth  ten  cents  an  acre.  The  same  may 
be  true  of  other  counties  lying  along  the  river. 
Those  counties  have  a  much  larger  population 
than  any  six  counties  lying  back  of  them, 
where  the  school  sections  are  more  valuable. 
Now  to  adopt  the  county  system  would  not 
be  feir.  The  school  fund  should,  be  distribu- 
ted in  proportion  to  the  children  who  receive 
the  benefits  of  the  fund.  I  am  therefore  en- 
tirely opposed  to  the  county  system.  I  am 
in  fayor  of  the  other  proposition  of  the  gen- 
tleman from  Rice  County,  that  the  lands 
should  be  disposed  of  in  small  quantities. 

Mr.  FOLSOM.  I  am  in  favor  of  all  proper 
safeguards  being  placed  in  the  Constitution 
in  order  that  the  proceeds  of  these  lands  shall 
be  forever  inviolable,  but  I  am  not  in  favor  of 
burdening  our  people  with  the  details  of  a 
school  system  which  is  contained  in  tliis  bill, 
because  we  are  a  progressive  people,  and  any 
system  which  may  be  adopted  now,  will  not 
be  applicable  to  our  circumstances  five  years 
hence.  I  am  not  in  lavor  of  any  system 
which  ties  up  the  hands  of  the  Legislature. 

In  reply  to  some  remarks  made  by  gentle- 
men in  regard  to  the  valueless  portion  of  the 
Territory,  I  will  say  that  they  labor  under 
a  wrong  impression ;  and  I  say  now,  for  the 
benefit  of  the  Convention,  that  there  is  not 
any  portion  of  that  Territory  which  will  ever 
be  organized  imder  a  county  government  but 
what  will  sustain  a  dense  population,  and  they 
can  manage  their  own  school  lands. 

Mr.  WILSON.  I  did  not  say  it  was  val- 
ueless. I  did  say,  that  in  some  of  those 
counties,  when  populated,  the  school  lauds 
would  be  much  more  valuable,  because  they 
are  good  lands,  and  hence  the  system  would 
operate  unequally. 

Mr.  BALCOMBE.  The  question  now  be- 
fore us  is  the  amendment  to  the  amendment, 
and  in  that  amendment  two  questions  are 
involved ;  one  is  whether  the  lands  shall  be 
under  the  control  of  each  county  by  itself,  or 
whether  they  shall  be  under  the  control  of 
the  State  as  a  whole.  That  question  has  been 
somewhat  discussed,  and  I  hope  every  mem- 
ber will  express  his  opinion  upon  the  matter, 
because  I  wish  to  have  the  opinion  of  the 
people  upon  that  point,  and  then  be  governed 
by  it.  The  second  question  is  whether  the 
lands,  when    sold    shall    be    appraised,   or 


242 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Saturday,  August  1. 


whether  when  sold,  they  shall  be  sold  to  the 
highest  bidder.  That  question  has  not  been 
spoken  of  by  any  gentleman.  I  would  like 
to  hear  the  opinion  of  every  gentleman,  be- 
cause I  wish  to  get  at  the  wishes  of  the  peo- 
ple upon  that  point,  and  then  be  governed 
by  it.  My  idea  is  that  the  lands  should  be 
appraised,  and  then  put  up  at  public  auction, 
and  sold  to  the  highest  bidder.  If  the  lands 
are  put  under  the  control  of  each  county, 
and  are  put  up  at  pubhc  sale,  there  are  two 
or  three  things  to  be  considered.  In  the  first 
place  speculators  would  not  desire  to  buy 
lands  out  from  under  the  settlers,  by  bidding 
higher  than  the  settlers,  and  the  settler  buys 
at  the  minimum  price  of  $1,25  per  acre — 
that  is  settlers  who  were  actually  on  the 
school  sections.  Though  the  speculators  may 
desire  to  bid  even  fifteen  or  twenty  dollars  an 
acre,  he  does  not  desire  to  bid  it  out  from  un- 
der the  actual  settler.  A  neighbor  for  instance 
who  might  want  the  land  actually  for  farming 
purposes,  would  not  bid  against  his  neighbor, 
the  actual  settler  upon  it.  Suppose  my  friend 
fi-om  Scott  county  (Mr.  Galbeaith)  was  an 
actual  settler  upon  a  school  section,  I  would 
not,  however  much  I  wanted  the  land,  take  it 
away  from  him  because  I  was  able  to  pay  a 
higher  price  than  he.  Now  this  is  a  matter 
which  we  should  take  mto  consideration. 

I  approve  of  putting  some  restriction  upon 
the  Legislature,  and  the  question  is,  what  re- 
striction shall  we  impose  as  to  the  disposal  of 
the  school  lands. 

It  seems  conceded  that  we  shall  not  incor- 
porate here  a  general  school  system,  and  the 
question  then  is,  what  kind  of  restrictions 
shall  we  place  upon  the  Legislature.  That  is 
an  important  question,  and  I  want  to  know 
what  are  the  wishes  of  the  people  upon  that 
point. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  The  question  is  upon 
the  proposition  of  the  gentleman  from  Rice 
county,  to  give  the  school  lands  to  the  several 
county  corporations  for  the  use  of  schools.  I 
am  opposed  to  it,  and  not,  I  think,  without 
some  reasons.  To  illustrate  the  real  cifect 
which  this  amendment  would  have,  let  us 
suppose  that  we  make  smaller  subdivisions, 
and  give  the  lands  to  the  towns.  In  one  town 
say  the  school  section  is  worth  $100  per  acre. 
That  would  be  a  great  fund  for  that  town.  In 
another  town  adjoining,  it  may  so  happen 


that  the  school  section  is  worth  but  the  gov- 
ernment price — $1.25  per  acre.  Now  those 
towns  may  be  just  as  populous,  and  every 
one  admits  that  education  is  not  a  local,  but  a 
general  benefit.  It  is  for  the  benefit  of  our 
county  that  the  children  of  another  county 
should  be  educated.  Now  I  submit  if  that 
would  be  just?  One  county  might  have  a 
revenue  of  $50,000,  while  another  would  have 
only  a  small  revenue  of  $2,000.  I  ask  if 
that  is  just  and  equitable,  and  if  it  is  carrying 
out  the  objects  which  the  people  of  such  a 
State  as  ours,  ought  to  have  at  heart  ?  I  say 
there  is  no  more  need  of  instruction  in  large 
cities  than  there  is  in  the  rural  districts.  And 
you  will  generally  find  the  children  of  the 
rural  districts  better  educated  than  those  of 
towns  and  cities. 

Mr.  BOLLES.  I  am  disposed  to  treat  this 
subject  with  a  great  deal  of  caution.  I  con- 
sider the  proposition  of  the  gentleman  fi'om 
Rice  county  correct  in  part,  and  in  part  not. 
The  proposition  which  he  proposes  to  insert 
into  the  Constitution,  that  the  lands  shall  be 
sold  in  small  parcels,  is  a  good  one,  for  the 
reason  that  if  so  sold,  they  will  bring  the 
highest  price,  and  put  more  money  in  the 
school  fund,  than  if  sold  in  larger  parcels. 
There  are  school  lands  which  are  valuable, 
and  I  believe  that  if  they  are  sold  in  twenty 
acre  lots  they  wjll  bring  a  larger  revenue  to 
the  school  fund  than  if  sold  in  any  other  way. 
If  we  adopt  the  minimum  price,  it  will  ope- 
rate unfavorably.  I  take  it  to  be  the  true 
principle  that  the  settler  has  no  business  to 
occupy  these  school  lands  to  the  injury  of  the 
children  of  the  State,  and  if  he  goes  on  to 
them,  he  does  so  at  his  peril,  and  if  he  makes 
improvements,  he  should  understand  that  his 
land  must  come  into  competition  by  the  bids 
of  others. 

One  objection  I  have  to  the  proposition  is, 
that  it  will  not  distribute  the  benefits  of  a 
school  fund  equally.  I  think  the  only  just 
ground  is  to  give  the  State  the  benefits  of  the 
school  fund  equally.  As  far  as  my  county  of 
Rice  is  concerned,  we  should  get  a  large  school 
fund,  because  our  school  lands  arc  valuable, 
but  I  am  not  disposed  to  hoard  them  up  for 
our  exclusive  benefit,  and  I  believe  our  peo- 
ple will  be  with  me  in  that  respect. 

Unless  we  intend  to  go  into  the  details  of  a 
system  from  beginning  to  end,  from  the  State 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Satukdat,  Augpst  1. 


248 


superintendent  down  to  the  town  superin- 
tendent, we  cannot  do  anything  more  than  to 
adopt  the  substitute  proper.  I  hope  the  last 
amendment  will  not  prevail.  There  seems  to 
be  a  difficulty  in  getting  at  it.  It  will  bring 
us  into  that  difficulty  we  are  all  talking  about 
— special  legislation. 

Where  there  is  a  diversity  of  opinion,  the 
gentleman  fi-om  Winona  will  find  that  we  are 
as  ready  to  talk  upon  a  matter  of  importance, 
as  we  are  upon  such  questions  as  women's 
rights,  and  I  hope  we  shall  have  no  more 
reference  to  that  matter,  because  what  may 
seem  of  importance  to  one,  may  not  seem  of 
importance  to  another.  I  hope  we  shall  have 
no  more  remarks  reproaching  any  one  for 
what  they  may  say  here.  I  have  a  good 
opinion  of  my  fellow  beings,  and  I  am  inclined 
to  believe  them  honest  in  their  sentiments, 
imtil  they  prove  themselves  dishonest.  I  do 
not  want  to  charge  them  with  anything  like 
double  dealing,  or  anything  of  that  kind. 

I  say  again,  I  hope  the  proposition  will  not 
prevail.  It  strikes  me  that  it  is  not  proper, 
unless  we  intend  to  adopt  a  general  and 
minute  system. 

Mr.  COLBURX.  It  appears  to  me  that 
the  amendment  of  the  gentleman  fi-om  Rice 
county  ought  to  be  divided.  I  want  to  vote 
for  that  part  of  it  which  provides  that  the 
school  lands  shall  be  sold  at  public  sale,  and 
against  that  part  which  provides  for  placing 
them  imder  the  control  of  the  coimties  in 
which  they  are  situated.  On  the  other  hand 
there  are  those  who  wish  the  lands  to  be 
placed  under  the  control  of  the  counties,  but 
are  opposed  to  the  first  provision. 

Mr.  HARDING.  I  offer  the  foUowing  as  a 
substitute  for  the  amendment  of  the  gentle- 
man from  Rice  county  : 

"  Xo  school  lands  shall  be  sold  until  they  shall 
have  been  appraised  by  three  appraisers,  who 
shall  be  appointed  by  the  board  of  supervisors  of 
the  several  counties  in  which  such  lands  are  situa- 
ted, and  not  for  less  than  the  appraised  value." 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  I  have  listened  with 
considerable  interest  to  the  difierent  speakers 
who  have  spoken  upon  these  various  amend- 
ments. There  have  been  some  very  good 
suggestions  thrown  out  by  several  gentlemen 
— suggestions  which,  in  my  opinion,  would  be 
very  proper,  provided  we  were  a  Legislature, 
and  were  sitting  here  to  pass  a  code  of  laws 


in  regard  to  schools.  Now  I  am  one  of  those 
who  always  want  to  know  just  where  we 
stand  in  the  first  place,  and  after  having  found 
out  the  position  we  occupy,  to  take  such  a 
direction  as  our  judgments  may  dictate.  I 
tmderstand,  in  the  first  place,  that  Congress 
has  granted  us  a  certain  amount  of  lands  for 
school  purposes,  and  that  the  grant  is  sub- 
stantially like  the  railroad  grants.  It  has  not, 
however,  granted  those  lands  to  the  diflFerent 
counties,  nor  to  the  diflFerent  townships,  but  to 
the  proposed  State  whenever  we  come  into 
the  Union  as  one  of  the  States. 

Now  I  have  no  objection  to  the  amendment 
proposed  by  the  gentleman  fix)m  Rice  county, 
which  provides  for  the  disposal  of  these  lands 
to  the  several  counties.  If  we  are  sitting 
here  as  a  Convention  for  the  purpose  of  dis- 
posing of  those  lands  in  the  same  way  that 
the  Legislature  disposes  of  the  railroad  grants, 
I  want  to  imderstand  what  is  the  best  and  the 
proper  disposition  of  them.  It  so  happens 
that  I  was  bom  in  New  Hampshire,  and 
raised  under  the  New  England  common  school 
system,  and  I  know  something  about  that 
system.  Some  of  their  arrangements  I  liked 
and  some  I  disliked.  I  was  transported  to 
Illinois,  and  I  learned  something  about  the 
system  which  prevailed  there.  In  that  State 
every  sixteenth  section  was  given  for  school 
purposes,  and  the  Legislature  gave  those  six- 
teenth sections,  not  to  the  counties,  but  to 
each  congressional  district  Now  in  coming 
from  Illinois  up  into  Minnesota,  it  seems  to 
me  that  it  is  my  duty  to  discriminate  between 
the  circmnstances  of  Illinois  and  Minnesota. 
I  ought  not  to  lug  aroxmd  aU  my  New  Eng- 
land notions  through  Illinois,  and  perhaps 
amend  them  in  Illinois,  and  then  lug  them  up 
the  Mississippi  into  Minnesota,  and  say  they 
are  right,  and  should  be  carried  into  operation 
here.  I  see  here  a  different  coimtry  fi-om  the 
Northern  part  of  Illinois.  I  see  the  pine 
and  the  lumber  country  up  here,  which  can 
never  be  thickly  settled.  Northern  Illinois  is 
settled  by  a  farming  community,  and  a  system 
that  would  not  operate  well  there,  would 
operate  well  here.  We  should  look  to  the 
circmnstances  which  surround  us,  and  be 
guided,  to  a  certain  extent,  by  those  circum- 
stances, and  as  tar  as  my  judgment  is  con- 
cerned, it  seems  to  me  that  this  county  or 
township  system,  which  works  well  in  Illinois, 


244 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Satcbday,  August  1. 


where  nearly  all  the  lands  are  farming  lands, 
would  not  work  well  here.  It  seems  to  me, 
also,  that  inasmuch  as  this  grant  has  been 
made  to  the  State,  it  ought  to  be  kept  as  a 
State  school  fund,  to  be  applied  by  the  Legis- 
lature in  such  manner  as  the  wisdom  of  the 
Legislature  may  direct.  Now  I  do  not 
believe  that  we  are  going  to  have,  hereafter, 
such  great  swindlers  to  represent  us.  I  do 
not  believe  but  that  the  Legislatiire  will  have 
just  as  much  knowledge  in  reference  to  the 
school  lands  as  we  have ;  nor  do  I  believe  but 
what  we  shall  have  as  smart,  talented,  and  as 
wise  men  in  the  Legislature  as  we  have  here. 
So  far  as  I  am  concerned,  I  am  perfectly 
willing  to  run  the  risk.  Now  perhaps  you 
and  I  may  be  so  fortunate  as  to  come  into 
one  of  those  Legislatures,  and  if  we  do,  then, 
you  know,  everything  is  perfectly  safe. 
(Laughter.) 

Now  the  question  has  been  asked,  and 
properly  asked,  by  my  friend  from  Winona, 
(Mr.  Balcombe)  are  we  to  go  on  and  devise 
and  perfect  a  school  system.  I,  for  one, 
would  like  to  have  that  question  answered. 
(Cries  of  "  No  !  "  "  No ! ")  That  is  my  idea 
exactly.  And  then  if  we  are  not  going  on  to 
engraft  a  regular  school  system  into  the 
Constitution,  the  next  question  is,  where 
is  the  propriety  of  engrafting  certain  re- 
strictions in  regard  to  the  sale  of  schooj 
lands  ?  In  my  judgment,  when  you  come  to 
the  details  of  that  system  of  restriction,  in 
regard  to  the  sale  of  the  school  lands,  it  will 
amount  to  about  the  same  thing  as  a  system 
of  common  school  legislation.  The  ideas 
already  advanced  arc,  that  the  lands  shall  be 
appraised  at  their  actual  value  by  certain  indi- 
viduals; that  they  shall  be  sold  in  small 
quantities,  and  not  for  less  than  the  appraised 
value.  Now  if  you  are  going  that  far,  I  pro- 
pose that  you  shall  protect  the  people  of  our 
.section  of  the  country  who  have  settled  upon 
the  school  lands  as  honest  and  good  citizens, 
though,  perhaps,  under  a  mistaken  idea  of 
their  rights.  But  they  are  there,  and  a  part 
and  parcel  of  our  best  citizens.  They  are 
there  helping  us  build  our  school  houses,  to 
pay  our  taxes,  and  to  build  up  the  country, 
and  if  you  are  going  into  restrictions,  I  have 
something  to  say  in  regard  to  that  class  of 
individuals. 
My  opinion  is,  that  wo  should  leave  it  where 


the  Enabling  Act  has  left  it ;  and  for  that  rea- 
son I  am  opposed  to  the  report  of  the  commit- 
tee ;  and  furthermore,  I  am  opposed  to  every 
amendment  which  has  been  oflfered,  and  shall 
be  opposed  to  every  amendment  which  may 
be  offered.  Now  that  is  going  a  great  ways. 
But  the  Enabling  Act,  by  its  fifth  section,  has 
given  the  land  to  the  State,  and  we  have  ac- 
cepted of  the  provisions  of  that  act.  Now, 
how  does  that  make  the  matter  stand  ?  Do 
not  the  lands  belong  to  the  State?  Yes. 
For  what  purpose?  For  the  support  and 
benefit  of  Schools.  Can  you  appropriate  the 
proceeds  of  these  lands  to  any  other  purpose 
than  the  support  of  Schools  ?  Certainly  not. 
It  is  perfectly  safe  then,  and  the  whole  matter 
rests  with  the  Legislature  ;  and  it  is  for  their 
wisdom  to  devise  a  system  of  Schools;  to 
say  how  the  fund  shall  be  applied,  and  in 
what  way  and  manner.  It  is  perfectly  safe 
as  a  School  fund — made  so  by  the  Enabling 
Act,  and  by  that  clause  of  the  Constitution 
which  we  have  substantially  adopted,  which 
does  accept  the  provisions  of  that  fith  section. 
Then,  if  the  fund  is  safe,  what  necessity  is 
there  for  going  on  to  make  restrictions  in  re- 
gard to  the  sale  of  the  lands  ?  Let  the  Leg- 
islature dispose  of  that,  as  well  as  of  all  other 
matters  connected  with  this  subject.  My 
opinion  is,  that  the  members  of  the  Legisla- 
ture will  come  here  with  just  as  much  regard 
for  the  good  of  the  country  as  we  have. 

Mr.  NORTH.  Before  the  question  is  taken 
on  the  substitute  for  my  amendment,  I  wish 
to  say  that  I  think  there  is  a  little  misappre- 
hension in  regard  to  the  working  of  the  sys- 
tem I  propose.  I  should  not  feel  disposed  to 
urge  that  very  strongly,  if  I  did  not  know 
that  there  were  strong  feelings  in  favor  of  such 
an  arrangement  among  some  of  the  most  en- 
lightened people  in  this  Tei'ritory.  Some  who 
have  had  the  misfortune  to  live  under  the 
Wisconsin  system,  have  seen  the  danger  aris- 
ing from  a  consolidated  fund.  We  wish, 
above  all  tilings,  to  have  our  School  fund 
guarded ;  and  the  people  would  rather  prefer 
a  smaller  sum  than  they  otherwise  would 
have,  and  have  it  secured  and  under  their  own 
control,  than  to  have  a  larger  sum,  and  feel 
that  it  was  not  secure. 

A  word  in  regard  to  the  working  of  this 
system  in  counties  where  there  are  no  settle- 
ments.    Let  the  lands  remain  unsold   until 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Satubdat,  Arousr  1. 


245 


there  are  settlements.  If  there  are  no  schol- 
ars to  have  the  benefits  of  them,  let  them  lie 
until  they  are  more  valuable  and  there  are 
settlements  which  need  them. 

A^in,  it  is  said  that  the  lands  will  be  of 
small  value  in  some  counties,  and  in  others 
it  will  be  the  contrary.  I  beheve  these  lands 
are  generally  valuable  in  proportion  to  the 
population  of  the  counties ;  and  as  population 
increases  the  lands  become  more  valuable. 
That  is  the  reason  why  the  lands  are  very 
valuable  in  some  localities  and  very  cheap  in 
others  ;  and  the  value  seems  to  be  graded  al- 
most in  exact  ratio  with  the  increase  of  popu- 
lation. True,  I  know  that  lands  have  value 
according  to  quality.  If  they  lay  upon  bluffs, 
they  are  almost  valueless ;  but  the  inequahty 
which  that  would  work  is  not  greater  than 
under  any  other  system.  Suppose  all  those 
lands  are  sold  and  the  proceeds  put  into  a 
consolidated  fund.  It  seems  to  me  that  val- 
uable lands  will  be  sold  in  some  localities  be- 
fore they  wiU  bring  their  true  value,  for  want 
of  improvements  around  them.  They  might 
not  bring  a  tenth  or  twentieth  part  of  what 
they  would  if  they  were  allowed  to  remain 
until  the  country  became  settled  around 
them.  If  the  matter  is  left  to  the  counties, 
they  would  take  their  own  time  to  dispose  of 
them,  and  wOl  make  the  most  out  of  them. 
I  believe  it  is  the  feeling  among  the  people, 
that  they  would  rather  have  a  small  sum  and 
have  it  secure  and  under  their  own  control, 
with  as  little  machinery  about  it  as  possible, 
and  as  Uttle  sending  to  and  fro  from  the  Cap- 
ital to  their  respective  localities,  than  to  have 
a  large  fund  at  the  Capital  in  which  they  had 
a  share,  but  over  which  they  had  no  control. 
The  additional  security  gained  by  having  the 
coimties  have  the  entire  control,  is  a  reason 
which  ought  to  outweigh  a  great  many  rea- 
sons against  it. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  The  amendment  of 
the  gentleman  firom  Rice  county,  is  to  me,  at 
least,  a  matter  of  doubtful  propriety.  From 
the  great  diversity  of  views  expressed  here,  I 
am  satisfied  that  oiu"  minds  are  not  settled 
upon  the  matter.  Objections  have  been  m-ged 
here,- which,  I  think,  are  very  strong.  The 
objection,  also,  is  made  here,  that  some  coun- 
ties, which  may  have  more  population  than 
richer  counties,  have  a  smaller  School  fund, 

o-^-  use  tbwr  lands  are  not  valuable.    I  am 


smprised  that  gentlemen  should  lu-ge  such  an 
objection,  contradicting  the  old  adage,  "Poor 
"  men  for  children."  Now  it  is^a  matter  of 
fact  that  in  the  old  States,  some  of  the  poor- 
est and  worst  counties  are  filled  up  with  pop- 
ulation, and  why  ?  Because  poor  men  go 
there,  while  the  capitalists  go  into  the  richer 
counties.  And  here  at  the  West,  rich  lands 
are  made  the  subjects  of  investment  by  the 
rich  capitalists.  Poor  men  after  the  first  set- 
tiement  of  a  country — after  the  lands  pass 
through  first  hands — cannot  settie  in  the  rich 
and  wealthy  covmties,  and  their  lands  are  not 
the  homes  of  poor  men.  The  man  who  wants 
a  home  merely,  goes  where  his  labor  or  his 
funds  wiU  pay  for  it  the  easiest,  and  that  is  in 
the  poorest  counties.  It  is  a  matter  of  histo- 
ry, which  cannot  be  denied,  that  poor  men 
have  more  children  than  rich  men  have.  It 
is  the  history  of  the  world.  Take  Ireland  as 
an  instance.  Those  who  live  in  hovels  wiU 
every  one  of  them  have  their  dozen,  and  those 
are  the  ones  who  need  education.  They  are 
the  poor  men  who  need  facilities  for  educa- 
tion, because  it  is  a  fact,  that  men,  when  they 
become  rich,  do  not  send  their  children  to  the 
common  schools,  and,  as  a  general  thing,  you 
will  find  none  of  the  rich  men,  except  such  as 
have  Uberal  minds,  in  favor  of  common  schools, 
because  they  say  they  can  do  better. 

The  land  which  has  been  given  by  Congress 
for  the  benefit  of  the  schools  of  the  future 
State  of  Minnesota,  is  an  inheritance  for  every 
child  in  the  Territory,  and  the  nearer  equal 
we  make  the  distribution  of  that  fund  to 
every  child,  the  nearer  we  come  to  fulfilling 
the  conditions  on  which  we  received  the  grant. 
Let  us  be  cautious  in  distributing  this  fund 
around  among  the  coimties.  What  security 
do  they  give  ?  Into  whose  hands  in  the  county 
shall  those  funds  be  entrusted?  You  say 
the  Legislature  will  provide  for  that.  Then 
the  Legislature  must  provide  for  this  county 
and  that  county  to  the  number  of  sixty  all  over 
the  Territory,  according  to  their  various  cir- 
cimistances.  Do  you  place  it  within  the  hatids 
of  county  Commissioners  ?  Are  they  boimd 
to  give  security  ?  Will  not  that  make  a  com- 
plicated system  composed  of  five  hundred 
different  heads  ?  Is  that  a  good  plan  ?  Is  that 
the  way  monied  men  do  ?  Capitalists  gene- 
rally wish  to  have  their  funds  invested  in  good, 
sound,  paying  stocks,  and  to  have  them  as 


.46 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Saturday,  August  1. 


near  together  as  possible,  on  the  principle 
that  an  army  scattered  here  and  there  cannot 
fight  a  good  battle.  Will  it  be  easier  to  se- 
cure those  funds,  when  scattered  through 
every  county  in  the  State,  than  it  would  be 
were  they  all  in  one  place  ?  We  have  a  large 
number  of  county  organizations,  and  each 
one  of  them  must  give  some  kind  of  security, 
and  the  State  has  got  to  attend  to  that  matter. 
We  have  no  provision  here  saying  what  kind 
of  security  shall  be  taken,  and  I  do  not  know 
as  we  could  put  such  a  provision  into  the  Con- 
stitution. 

I  cannot  say  that  I  have  made  up  my  mind 
upon  this  subject,  but  I  can  say  that  it  is  not 
clear  to  my  mind  that  the  proposed  plan  is 
the  best.  We  are  dealing  with  the  grant  of 
school  lands,  and  it  is  a  new  thing  to  us.  In 
many  States  the  leeches  of  the  State  have 
robbed  the  children  of  their  inheritance.  To 
provide  against  the  recurrence  of  such  an 
event,  is  now  the  duty  of  this  Counstitutional 
Convention,  and  if  we  can  throw  a  safe  guard 
around  that  fund  we  will  do  an  act  for  which 
posterity  will  cast  blessings  upon  our  heads. 
Is  it  not,  then,  well  worthy  the  serious  con- 
sideration of  every  man  here  ?  As  there  is 
such  a  variety  of  opinions,  to  adopt  any  one 
of  these  provisions  as  a  finality,  is  a  little 
dangerous.  It  wiU  bear  further  inquiry  and 
I  am  in  favor  of  re-committing  this  whole  pro- 
position to  the  committee  fi"om  which  it  came, 
to  report,  now  that  they  have  had  the  views 
of  this  body,  just  how  the  lands  shall  be  dis- 
posed of,  whether  in  small  or  large  quantities, 
and  how  the  fund  shall  be  secured  and  how 
it  shall  be  distributed.  We  should  throw 
around  the  Legislature  a  constitutional  guard 
beyond  which  they  cannot  go.  If  this  Con- 
vention can  accomplish  that  object,  they  will 
do  a  good  thing,  and  whether  the  Constitu- 
tion is  adopted  or  not,  it  will,  at  least,  show 
their  good  intentions.  I  do  not  intend  to  of- 
fer an  amendment  now,  as  I  am  not  prepared 
for  it,  but  I  wish  to  suggest  the  idea  that  the 
Legislature  shall  have  the  po^^er  to  appoint  or 
name  the  Commissioners  of  the  school  fund, 
who  shall  have  power  to  sell  or  otherwise  dis- 
pose of  the  school  lands  and  invest  the  money 
arising  therefrom  in  the  same  manner  that 
the*  law  prescribes  that  money  belonging  to 
orphan  children  shall  be  invested — that  is  in 
United  States  stocks,  and  solvent  State  stocks, 


or  in  bonds  and  mortgages  upon  undoubted 
real  estate  security.  In  addition  to  that,  I 
would  provide  that  after  the  Commissioners 
had  agreed  upon  the  securities,  they  should 
not  be  finally  taken  and  made  valid  and  bind- 
ing without  the  approval  of  either  the  Secre- 
tary of  State,  Superintendent  of  common 
schools,  the  Governor,  or  some  other  proper 
officer.  I  also  would  have  the  faith  of  the 
State  pledged  for  all  depreciation  in  the  school 
fund,  from  fraud  or  mismanagement — that 
the  State  shall  be  collateral  security,  if  you 
please,  for  that  fund,  in  order  that  this  inher- 
itance given  to  us  by  Congress,  shall  forever 
remain  inviolate  to  every  child  bom  in  the 
Territory  as  long  as  the  world  stands.  This 
fund  should  be  secured  inviolable,  though 
every  other  fund  should  sink  into  the  ocean. 

Be  it  understood  that  I  do  not  urge  this  in 
any  other  way  than  as  a  suggestion.  If  the 
fund  is  not  well  guarded  every  leech  in  the 
Territory  will  be  after  it.  I  know  it  to  be  a 
fact  thatinen  are  colonizing  the  school  lands 
now.  They  are  sending  out  pre-emptors 
upon  the  school  lands,  and  are  cutting  off  the 
timber  upon  them.  Their  object  is  to  come 
into  the  Legislature  hereafter,  and  demand 
that  they  shall  give  them  those  lands  at  a 
certain  price,  upon  the  ground  that  they  are 
settlers  upon  them.  And  it  is  not  the  settler 
either  who  does  this.  It  is  the  speculator. 
He  knows  that  these  school  lands  are  valuable. 
In  the  county  in  which  I  live  the  school  sec- 
tions are  very  valuable.  It  seems  as  though 
Providence  had  given  us  the  best  sections  in 
the  county,  and  every  day  we  get  the  news 
that  some  stranger  has  gone  upon  the  school 
lands,  and  is  erecting  a  cabin.  And  what 
for  ?  You  can  trace  Ms  steps  from  some  spec- 
ulating office  in  this  Territory  directly  to  that 
school  land.  The  Constitution  should  hedge 
these  lands  about,  as  one  of  the  most  impor- 
tant interests  to  be  taken  care  of.  How  to 
do  that  is  what  I  want  to  get  at,  and  I  have 
not  arrived  at  a  satisfactory  conclusion  in  my 
own  mind.  If  wo  can,  let  us  accomplish  it 
by  all  means,  and  never  permit  the  Legisla- 
ture to  allow  those  men  who  have  gone  on  the 
school  lands  after  the  surveys,  one  iota  of 
profit  from  such  acts.  Men  who  will  volun- 
tarily step  upon  the  inheritance  of  the  State 
and  rob  the  children  of  the  State  of  their  in- 
heritance,   deserve    no    commiseration,   and 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Satttrdat,  Atjgust  1. 


247 


should   have   no  benefit  from   their  wrong 
deeds. 

Mr.  MESSER.  There  is  one  reason  why  I ' 
should  be  in  favor  of  the  amendment,  and 
that  is,  because  1  believe  that  where  the 
avails  of  the  land  are  to  be  used,  there  is  the 
place  where  the  people  feel  the  deepest  inte- 
rest to  guard  them.  I  beheve,  too,  that  the 
counties  should  have  the  control  of  them, 
because  they  will  then  have  a  direct  and  deep 
interest  in  protecting  them,  and  disposing  of 
them  to  the  best  advantage.  I  like,  also,  the 
suggestion  made  by  the  gentleman  from  Rice 
county,  in  his  amendment,  that  these  lands 
should  be  sold  in  small  parcels.  I  could  wish 
that  those  lands  might  lie  for  years,  for  I 
believe  that  the  lands  themselves  are  the  best 
possible  security  we  can  have.  They  ought 
not  to  be  sold,  only  as  they  are  needed  to 
carry  forward  the  schools  in  the  counties  in 
which  the  land  lies.  I  know  that  the  lands 
are  now  looked  upon  as  very  valuable  in  many 
sections,  and  school  sections  touching  upon 
towns  and  cities  are  considered  immensely 
valuable ;  and  there  are  many  who  are  looking 
forward  to  the  time  when  they  can  purchase 
those  lands,  and  are  willing  to  pay  a  good 
price  for  them.  But  the  people  in  my  section 
of  the  Territory  prefer  that  the  lands  should 
remain  vmsold  for  the  present,  for  they  prefer 
the  land,  to  having  its  value  placed  in  any 
other  shape. 

Mr.  BALCOMBE.  As  I  understand  it, 
the  question  is  upon  the  substitute  of  the 
gentleman  from  Olmsted  county,  (Mr.  Habd- 
ufc)  which  provides  for  the  sale  of  the  lands 
after  appraisal,  instead  of  selling  at  public 
auction.  I  believe  I  am  in  favor  of  that 
principle.  I  believe  the  fund  would  be  larger 
derived  from  a  sale  in  that  way,  than  it  would 
be,  if  the  lands  were  sold  at  public  auction  to 
the  highest  bidder.  I  believe  that  if  they 
were  sold  at  public  auction,  that  they  would 
very  seldom  bring  more  than  the  minimum 
price.  Those  school  sections  will  be  covered 
by  actual  settlers,  and  as  to  the  question 
whether  or  not  they  will  fall  into  the  hands  of 
speculators,  that  has  nothing  to  do  with  the 
discussion  of  the  question  under  considera- 
tion, though  I  do  not  believe  that  any  man 
supposes  that  the  actual  settlers  now  upon 
the  school  sections  intend  to  ^ve  them  into 
the  hands  of  speculators.    They  design  to 


impression  that  they  are  intending  to  occupy 
them  as  homesteads  will  prevent  all  others 
from  bidding  upon  those  lands.  Hence  I  am 
satisfied  that  we  shall  get  for  them,  upon 
public  sale,  no  more  than  the  minimmn  price. 
Therefore  I  hope  the  Convention  will  decide 
upon  a  system  by  which  the  lands  must  be 
sold  under  appraisal.  As  to  who  shall  ap- 
praise them,  I  may  differ  with  gentlemen.  I 
am  of  opinion  that  some  responsible  persons 
should  be  appointed  by  the  State  to  appraise 
them — men  who  will  not  be  directly  interested, 
as  men  would  be  if  appointed  in  each  county. 
My  idea  is  that  the  appraisers  should  be  indi- 
viduals as  fer  out  of  motives  of  interest  as 
possible.  The  supervisors  of  the  county 
would  be  more  or  less  interested  in  them. 
The  commissioners  who  might  be  appointed 
by  the  supervisors,  would  be  directly  within 
the  reach  of  those  individuals  in  the  covmties 
who  are  living  on  the  school  sections,  and 
might  be  more  likely  to  give  a  low  appraisal 
than  individuals  who  were  appointed  imder 
State  authority. 

The  question  was  then  taken  on  the  substi- 
tute offered  by  Mr.  Habdixg,  and  it  was  not 
agreed  to. 

Mr.  BALCOMBE.  I  move  that  the  com- 
mittee now  rise,  in  order  that  this  report  may 
be  re-submitted  to  the  committee  from  whence 
it  came. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to. 

The  committee  accordingly  rose  and  re- 
ported back  the  report  to  the  House. 

Mr.  BATES.  I  now  move  that  the  report 
be  re-submitted  to  the  committee  without 
instructions. 

Mr.  ALDRICH.  I  hope  the  motion  of  the 
gentleman  from  Hennepin  (Mr.  Bates)  will 
not  prevail.  We  might  just  as  well  dispose 
of  this  matter  now,  as  at  any  other  time.  At 
least,  let  us  try,  and  if  gentlemen  are  in  favor 
of  the  substitute  offered  by  the  gentleman 
from  Mower  coimty,  (Mr.  Lyle)  let  us  adopt 
it.  If  we  are  in  favor  of  the  report  of  the 
committee  as  it  now  stands,  let  us  adopt  that. 
If  we  see  fit,  after  trying  that,  to  re-commit 
the  report  to  the  same  committee,  then  it  can 
be  done.  We  have  had  no  votes  yet  which 
amount  to  anything,  as  to  obtaining  the  sense 
of  this  Convention.  It  seems  to  me  useless 
to  attempt  to  re-commit  it  until  we  have  first 
ascertained  the  sense  of  the  Convention. 


248 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Saturday,  August  1. 


Mr.  GALBRAITII.  That  is  a  test  ques- 
tion as  to  whether  we  are  prepared  to  vote 
upon  it  now. 

Mr.  BATES.  I  made  the  motion — not 
because  I  am  prepared  to  vote,  but  simply- 
cut  of  courtesy  to  the  committee.  But  if  it 
is  the  wish  of  the  Convention,  I  will  withdraw 
my  motion. 

Mr.  NORTH.  I  believe  the  Convention 
ought,  at  least,  to  finish  one  report  each  day. 

Mr.  WILSON.  I  move  to  re-commit  the 
report  to  the  committee. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  I  move  that  the 
Convention  adjourn  until  half  past  two 
o'clock. 

The  PRESIDENT.  The  motion  to  adjourn 
to  a  specified  time  will  not  take  precedence  of 
the  motion  of  the  gentleman  from  Winona, 
(Mr.  Wilson.) 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.    Then  I  withdraw  it. 

The  Convention  refused  to  re-commit. 

Mr.  HARDING  moved  (at  twelve  o'clock 
and  five  minutes)  that  the  Convention  adjourn 
until  half  past  two  o'clock. 

The  Convention  refused  to  adjourn. 

Mr.  HAYDEN.  I  move  that  the  substi- 
tute for  the  report  be  adopted. 

The  PRE  SIDENT.  There  is  no  substitute 
before  the  Convention. 

Mr.  LYLE.  I  move  a  substitute  for  the 
report,  the  same  that  I  offered  when  in 
committee. 

Mr.  NORTH.  I  move  to  amend  that  sub- 
stitute by  adding  the  additional  section  which 
I  offered  in  committee. 

Mr.  WILSON.  I  wish  to  say  a  few  words 
upon  this  question.  I  think  the  gentleman 
from  Rice  county  cannot  have  thought  of  the 
effect  which  his  amendment  will  have  upon 
some  of  the  counties  of  this  State.  There 
are  certain  coimties  which  will  be  left  without 
any  sohool  fund — Wabashaw,  for  instance, 
being  mostly  upon  the  half-breed  tract,  in 
which  there  are  no  school  sections  reserved. 

Mr.  NORTH.  They  have  an  equivalent  in 
other  lands. 

Mr.  WILSON.  They  have  an  equivalent 
when  all  the  best  lands  shall  have  been  <jhosen 
out,  which  is  no  equivalent  at  all. 

Mr.  NORTH.  The  section  does  not  say 
equivalent  in  acres. 

Mr.  WILSON.  I  do  not  think  it  means 
equivaleDt  in  value. 


Mr,  NORTH.     The  section  does  not  say 
equivalent  in  acres.     I  take  it  that  "  equiva- 
/lent"  means  equivalent  in  value. 

Mr.  WILSON.  The  language  of  the  ena- 
bling Act  is  this : — 

"That  sections  numbered  sixteen  and  thirty-six 
in  every  township  of  public  lands  in  said  State, 
and  where  either  of  said  sections,  or  any  part 
thereof,  has  been  sold  or  otherwise  been  disposed 
of,  other  lands,  equivalent  thereto  and  as  contig- 
uous as  may  be,  shall  be  granted  to  said  State  for 
the  use  of  schools." 

I  think  that  means  equivalent  in  acres.  I 
think  so.  My  friend  differs  from  me,  and  he 
probably  is  correct.  Now  when  we  look  at 
the  most  populous  counties  in  the  Territory, 
and  see  that  they  will  probably,  have  their 
school  sections  upon  a  bluff  which  is  not  worth 
twenty -five  cents  an  acre,  and  when  we  see 
that  the  cities  of  those  counties  are  the  very 
localities  which  most  need  the  benefits  of  the 
shool  fund — for  the  children  of  the  cities  are 
for  the  most  part  poor  children — and  when 
we  see  the  great  inequality  that  system  will 
work,  we  ought  to  pause  before  we  vote  for 
such  a  proposition.  In  the  State  of  Illinois, 
which  is  a  prairie  State  all  through,  it  might 
be  the  case  that  the  more  populous  the  coun- 
ty the  more  valuable  the  land.  But  that  is 
not  the  case  here.  I  find  that  the  school  sec- 
tions in  the  most  populous  counties,  are  the 
least  valuable.  Now  are  you  going  to  cut  off 
the  populous  counties  from  the  benefit  of  the 
school  fund ;  are  you  going  to  have  the  county 
of  Wabashaw  to  seek  for  her  number  of  acres 
after  the  best  lands  of  the  State  are  taken 
up  ?  Are  you  going  to  leave  the  other  coun- 
ties to  their  school  lands  upon  the  bluffs, 
when  they  have  a  population  four  or  five 
times  that  of  counties  which  have  fertile 
school  lands  ?  I  say  that  is  unjust,  and  I 
say  that  any  Constitution  containing  such  a 
provision  w^ill  not  receive  the  sanction  of  the 
people  of  Minnesota.  I  do  not  say  that  I 
will  vote  against  it,  but  I  do  say  that  I  will 
not  vote  for  it. 

Mr.  ALDRICH.  Under  the  Enabling  Act 
the  question  arises  whether  this  Convention 
has  the  right,  or  whether  the  Legislature  of 
the  State  of  Minnesota  has  the  right,  to  di- 
vert the  school  lands,  or  the  fund  arising 
therefrom  in  the  manner  proposed  by  the  gen- 
tleman from  Rice  county.  These  lands  are 
granted  to  the  State  for  the  use  of  schools  in 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Satckdat,  Acgcst  1. 


249 


the  State.     They  are  not  granted  to  the  coun- 
ties for  the  use  of  schools  in  those  counties. 

I  am  decidedly  opposed  to  the  amendment 
proposed  by  the  gentleman  from  Rice  county, 
and  at  the  same  time  I  am  in  favor  of  throw- 
ing all  the  restrictions  and  safeguards  around 
that  fund  that  I  possibly  can. 

Mr.  NORTH.  They  were  granted  to  this 
State  in  the  same  sense,  we  may  say,  that  the 
Railroad  lands  were  granted  to  the  State,  for 
the  purpose  of  building  Railroads  in  particu- 
lar localities.  These  lands  are  for  the  benefit 
of  schools  in  particular  localities — not  only 
in  all  the  counties  in  this  State,  but  in  all  the 
precincts  and  school  districts  of  the  State.  I 
see  nothing  inconsistent  in  my  amendment 
with  the  provisions  of  the  Enabling  Act. 

Mr.  McCLURE  called  for  the  yeas  and  nays 
on  the  amendment  offered  by  Mr.  Nobth. 

The  yeas  and  nays  were  ordered,  and  the 
question  being  put,  it  was  decided  in  the 
negative,  yeas  five,  and  nays  thirty -nine,  as 
follows : 

Teas — Messrs.  Ayer,  Hayden,  McKune,  Mess- 
er,  and  North. — 5. 

^ays — Messrs.  Aldrich,  Anderson,  Balcombe,  ■ 
Baldwin,  Bat«s,  Billings,  Belles,  Butler,  Cleg- 
horn,  Colbnm,  Cogswell,  Coe,  Duley,  Eschlie, 
Folsom,  Galbraith,  Gerrish,  Hall,  Harding  Hud- 
son, Hanson,  Holley,  Kemp,  Lvle,  Lowe,  Man, 
tor,  McClure,  Morgan,  Mills,  Murphy,  Putnam, 
Peckham,  Stannard,  Secombe,  Smith,  Vaughn, 
Watson,  Wilson,  and  Sheldon. — 39. 

The  question  recurred  on  the  substitute 
proposed  by  Mr.  Ltle. 

Mr.  WILSON.  I  am  opposed  to  the  sub- 
stitute. I  want  to  make  an  amendment  to  it, 
but  wish  time  to  consider  the  same,  and  there- 
fore move  that  the  report  be  laid  on  the  table. 
We  can  take  it  up  at  any  time. 

The  motion  was  not  agreed  to. 

Mr.  FOLSOM.  I  move  to  amend  the  sub- 
stitute by  striking  out  the  word  "  exclusive." 

Mr.  ROBBIXS.  I  feel  that  the  subject 
now  before  the  Convention  is  second  in  im- 
portance to  none  which  can  occupy  the  atten- 
tion of  this  Convention.  It  is  also  a  question 
of  vital  interest  to  our  constituents,  and  it 
goes  home  to  their  pockets.  A  question  of 
ordinary  importance  may  be  passed  over,  and 
not  arouse  the  attention  of  the  commmiity, 
but  a  question  of  this  kind  comes  home  to 
their  hearts  and  feelings  at  once.  They  have 
A  great  inteKst  in  it.  There  is  a  quarter  seo- 
32 


tion  of  school  land  near  my  residence,  which 
is  worth  $50,000.  Now  I  do  not  want  to 
vote  upon  the  question  mitil  I  have  had  time 
to  think  of  it.  I  wish  to  know  the  provisions 
of  the  bill  all  through,  and  I  wish  to  act  con- 
sistently upon  it.  For  that  reason  I  move 
that  the  Convention  now  adjourn. 

The  motion  was  not  agreed  to. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH  moved  tiiat  there  be  a 
call  of  the  Convention. 

A  call  was  ordered,  and  the  roll  being 
called  the  following  named  members  failed  to 
answer  to  their  names  : 

Messrs.  Bartholomew,  Coombs,  Davis,  Dicker- 
son,  Foster,  King,  McCann,  Phelps,  Perkins,  Rus- 
sel,  ^Thompson,    Walker,    Winel,    and  Watson. 

Mr.  MORGAN  moved  that  aU  further  pro- 
ceedings irnder  the  call  be  dispensed  with. 

The  motion  was  not  agreed  to. 

Mr.  WILSON  moved  that  the  Convention 
a-ljoum  imtil  half  past  two  o'clock. 

Mr.  STANNABD.  That  motion  is  out  of 
order. 

The  PRESIDENT.  A  motion  to  adjourn 
to  a  specified  time,  under  a  call  of  the  House 
is  not  in  order. 

Mr.  HAYD£N.  I  move  to  reconsider  the 
vote  by  which  the  Convention  refused  to  sus- 
pend further  proceedings  under  the  call. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  I  belieT^  that  a  ma- 
jority of  the  members  who  have  spoken,  have 
expressed  themselves  m  favor  of  this  amend- 
ment, and  I  want  a  vote  upon  it,  but  I  do  not 
want  that  vote  a  finaUty.  There  are  plentj^ 
of  amendments  in  the  minds  of  members.  K 
the  friends  of  this  measm^  will  allow  it  to  be 
amended  hereafter,  and  not  rush  it  through 
to  a  flnahty  to-day,  I  am  willing  to  vote  for  a 
suspension  of  aU  further  proceedings  vmder 
the  call. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  I  rise  to  a  question  of 
order.  Debate  is  not  in  order.  When  the 
Convention  is  imder  a  call,  nothing  is  in  or- 
der, but  a  motion  to  adjourn,  a  motion  to  sus- 
pend further  proceedings,  or  a  motion  to  re- 
consider the  vote  refusing  to  suspend  the  pro- 
ceeding under  the  call. 

The  PRESIDENT.  The  question  of  order 
is  well  taken.  No  motion  is  in  order  but  a 
motion  to  reconsider. 

Mr.  KEMP.     I  make  that  motion. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  Did  the  gentieman  vote 
with  the  majority  ? 


250 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Saturday,  August  1. 


Mr.  KEMP.     I  did. 

The  question  was  taken,  and  the  motion  to 
reconsider  prevailed;  and  then  all  further 
proceedings  under  call  were  dispensed  with. 

Mr.  ALDRICH  moved  that  the  Convention 
adjourn  until  half-past  two  o'clock. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  move  the  previous 
question.  I  believe  that  takes  precedence  of 
a  motion  to  adjourn  to  a  particular  time. 

Mr,  GALBRAITH.  I  move  that  the  Con- 
vention adjourn,  and  upon  that  I  demand  the 
yeas  and  nays. 

The  yeas  and  nays  were  ordered,  and  the 
question  being  put  it  was  decided  in  the  nega- 
tive, yeas  13,  nays  81,  as  follows  : 

Yeas — Messrs.  Baldwin,  Coe,  Eschlie,  Galbraith, 
Hall,  Lyle,  McKune,  Morgan,  Murphy,  Stannard, 
Kemp,  Smith,  and  Wilson. — 13. 

Ifays — Messrs.  Aldrich,  Anderson,  Ayer,  Bal- 
combe.  Bates,  Billings,  BoUes,  Butler,  Cleghorn, 
Colburn,  Coggswell,  Duley,  Folsom,  Gerrish,  Hay~- 
den,  Harding,  Hudson,  Hanson,  HoUey,  Lowe, 
Mantor,  McClure,  Messer,  Mills,  North,  Putnam, 
Peckham,  Secombe,  Vaughn,  "Watson,  and  Shel- 
don.—31. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  I  move  to  lay  the  re- 
port and  the  motion  for  the  previous  question 
upon  the  table. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to. 

Mr.  MANTOR  moved  that  the  Convention 
adjourn. 

Mr.  COLBURN  demanded  the  yeas  and 
nays. 

The  yeas  and  nays  were  ordered,  and  the 
question  being  taken  it  was  decided  in  the 
negative,  yeas  9,  nays  35,  as  follows : 

Feffl*— Messrs.  Baldwin,  Eschlie,  Galbraith,  Hall, 
Kemp,  Lowe,  Morgan,  Secombe,  and  Smith.— 9. 

iVays— Messrs.  Aldrich,  Anderson,  Ayer,  Bates, 
BillingB,  Bolles,  Butler,  Cleghorn,  Colburn,  Coggs- 
well, Coe,  Duley,  Folsom,  Gerrish,  Hayden,  Har- 
ding, Hudson,  Hanson,  HoUey,  Lyle,  Mantor,  Mc- 
Kuue,  McClure,  Messer,  Mills,  Murphy,  North, 
Putnam,  Peckham,  Stannard,  Vaughn,  Watson, 
Balcombe,  Wilson,  and  Sheldon.— 35. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  move  that  the  Conven- 
tion adjourn  until  half-past  two  o'clock.  I 
desire  to  say  that  I  wish,  so  long  as  I  am  a 
member  of  this  Convention—^ — 

Mr,  WIIiSON.  Is  that  motion  debatable, 
except  as  to  the  time  ? 

The  PRESIDENT.    It  is  debatable. 
Mr.  COLBURN.     I  was  about  to  say  that 
as  long  as  I  am  a  member  of  this  Convention, 
I  shall  reprobate  all  attempts  to  adjourn  over 


beyond  the  usual  time,  until  after  wo  get 
through  with  our  work.  And  I  hope  the 
Convention  will  discountenance  every  attempt 
hereafter  to  adjourn  over  until  Monday  until 
after  the  afternoon  session.  I  consider  the 
action  which  has  been  had  here  by  certain 
members  as  an  attempt  to  force  us  to  adjourn 
over  until  Monday,  or  else  to  do  nothing  at  all. 
I  wish  it  understood  that  I  am  opposed  to  all 
such  proceedings. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  I  believe  that  so  im- 
portant a  subject  as  the  disposition  of  the 
School  lands  of  this  Territory  should  not  be 
passed  over  in  haste ;  and  that  is  the  reason 
why  I  aided  what  little  I  could  in  engineering 
this  matter  as  it  has  been  to-day.  The  gen- 
tleman may  make  as  many  charges  as  he 
pleases,  but  I  say  to  him  that  it  is  the  prac- 
tice of  all  parliamentary  bodies  to  consider 
Saturday  as  a  dies  no7i,  and  it  is  not  custom- 
ary to  sit  Saturday  afternoons.  It  is  a  sort  of 
holiday.  So  far  as  the  transactions  of  to-day 
are  concerned,  I  feel  perfectly  justified  in  what 
I  have  done,  in  my  own  heart,  and  before  my 
constituents. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  I  wish  to  say  one 
word  in  explanation.  I  tell  gentlemen  that  as 
long  as  I  sit  here,  I  will  never  suffer  so  im- 
portant a  measure  as  this  to  be  crowded  down 
my  throat,  until  I  have  exhausted  every  spe- 
cies of  parliamentary  tactics  within  my  reach. 
The  expressions  of  members  upon  this  floor 
show  that  this  matter  has  not  been  fully  con- 
sidered. It  may  be  first  rate  as  far  as  it  goes; 
and  the  only  reason  why  I  took  such  a  part 
in  these  proceedings  as  I  have,  was  to  preven- 
the  question  being  finally  taken  now,  for  I  be- 
lieve gentlemen  will  themselves,  upon  further 
consideration,  amend  it  themselves.  And 
how  much  shall  we  gain  if  we  throw  this  mat- 
ter before  the  public  in  its  present  shape  ? 
Does  it  go  far  enough?  Is  not  another  sec- 
tion needed  to  complete  it  ?  I  think  so,  and 
that  was  the  only  reason  why  I  took  the  course 
I  did — not  that  I  wanted  to  adjourn  over  un- 
til Monday,  for  I  care  not  whether  we  do  so 
or  not.  And  here  I  wish  to  remark,  tlicrc 
are  some  gentlemen  here  most  anxious  not  to 
adjourn  until  Monday,  who  have  not  appeared 
in  their  seats  more  than  ten  or  fifteen  minutes 
at  a  time,  for  a  week  past ;  and  now  they 
come  up  and  tell  us  wo  shall  not  adjourn  un- 
til Saturday  afternoon. 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Satueday,  August  1. 


2S1 


Mr.  COLBURN.  It  has  been  no  object  of 
mine  to  force  this  matter  to  a  vote.  But 
those  gentlemen  I  referred  to  have  voted 
against  adjourning  until  half-past  two  o'clock. 
Between  this  time  and  that  there  is  suflBcient 
leisure  to  examine  this  matter.  The  fact  that 
they  opposed  every  motion  to  adjourn  to  a  cer- 
tain time,  satisfied  me  what  their  object  was. 
I  do  not  come  here  to  spend  my  holidays. 

Mr.  LYLE.  I  wish  this  Convention  to  take 
proper  time  to  consider  this  subject.  I  con- 
sider it  as  the  most  important  measure  which 
has  yet  come  before  the  Convention.  As  the 
mover  of  this  substitute,  I  do  not  wish  to 
hurry  it  through.  I  wish  to  take  sufficient 
time  to  allow  members  to  oifer  amendments 
which  will  guard  the  School  fund  of  the  State, 
and  I  hope  to  see  it  done.  I  have  voted 
against  adjourning  over  until  Monday  for  the 
purpose  of  advancing  our  business  as  rapidly 
as  possible.  If  gentlemen  are  not  prepared 
to  offer  amendments  this  afternoon,  lay  the 
matter  over  until  another  time,  and  take  up 
some  other  business  upon  which  we  are  pre- 
pared to  act. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  As  the  only  motion 
pending  is  to  adjourn  until  half-past  two  o'- 
clock, and  as  it  is  giving  rise  to  considerable 
debate,  I  move  the  previous  question. 

The  previous  question  was  seconded  and 
the  main  question  ordered  to  be  put. 

The  question  was  put,  and  the  Convention 
adjourned  until  half-past  two  o'clock. 

AFTERNOON  SESSION. 

EDUCATIONAL   INSTITUTIONS,  &C. 

On  motion  of  Mr.  HARDING,  the  Conven- 
tion resumed  the  consideration  of  the  report 
of  the  committee  upon  Educational  Institu- 
tions and  Interests ;  the  pending  question  be- 
ing on  the  substitute  offered  by  the  gentle- 
man from  Mower  County  (Mr.  Lyle). 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  believe  a  demand  for 
the  previous  question  is  pending. 

Mr.  FOLSOM.  I  moved  an  amendment 
to  that  substitute. 

The  PRESIDENT.  That  amendment  was 
not  in  order,  as  an  amendment  to  an  amend- 
ment was  then  pending. 

The  demand  for  the  previous  question  was 
not  sustained. 

Mr.  FOLSOM.  I  now  move  to  strike  out 
the  word  "  exclusive,"  in  the  second  section 


of  the  substitute.  It  now  reads  "but  no  re- 
"  ligious  sect  or  sects  shall  ever  have  any  ex- 
"  elusive  right  to,  or  control  of  any  part  of 
"  the  school  fund  of  this  State." 

Mr.  LYLE.     I  accept  the  amendment. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  wish  to  say  now  what 
I  was  prevented  from  saying  at  the  time  the 
Convention  adjourned,  and  that  is,  that  there 
was  a  misunderstanding  upon  the  part  of  this 
Convention  of  the  object  of  myself  in  calling 
the  previous  question  upon  the  adoption  of 
the  substitute.  It  was  the  intention  of  no 
one,  so  far  as  I  know,  to  take  any  fiiial  action 
upon  this  matter  at  that  time,  but  to  adopt 
the  substitute  as  a  basis.  It  would  then  re- 
main open  for  amendments,  if  gentlemen  had 
any  to  offer.  I  had  myself  one  to  offer,  when- 
ever I  found  a  proper  place  for  it. 

Some  remarks  have  been  made  in  reference 
to  the  motion  to  adjourn.  I  voted  every  time 
to  bring  the  question  to  a  vote,  until  I  saw 
the  determination  of  the  Convention  was  the 
other  way,  and  then  I  voted  to  adjourn. 

I  hope  the  substitute  will  be  adopted,  I 
did  not  take  part  in  the  discussion  this  fore- 
noon, but  waited  until  something  should  be 
offered  which,  to  my  mind,  would  be  a  proper 
basis.  If  we  adopt  this  substitute  we  shall 
have  the  opportunity  to  amend  it  by  addi- 
tional sections,  if  the  Convention  is  satisfied 
with  this  so  far  as  it  goes.  It  seems  to  me 
best  to  adopt  it  so  far  as  it  does  go. 

Mr.  DULEY  offered  the  following  additional 
section : 

"  Provisions  shall  be  made  by  the  Legislature 
for  the  sale  of  all  school  and  university  lands. 
Said  lands  shall  be  sold  in  small  parcels  and  to  the 
highest  bidder,  except  in  cases  where  the  land 
may  have  been  occupied  previous  to  the  govern- 
ment survey." 

Mr.  HUDSON.  If  I  understand  the  im- 
port of  the  amendment,  it  is  that  the  Legis- 
lature shall  provide  for  the  sale  of  all 
school  lands,  and  that  they  shall  be  sold  in 
small  parcels,  and  to  the  highest  bidder,  ex- 
cept in  cases  where  the  lands  may  have  been 
occupied  previous  to  the  governmental  sur- 
vey. A  question  might  arise  how  much  of 
the  previous  portion  of  the  section  may  be 
modified  by  the  expression  "  except  where 
"  the  lands  may  have  been  occupied  previous 
"  to  the  governmental  survey."  I  suppose  that 
the  intent  of  the  gentleman  was  to  provido 
that  those  lands  which  should  have  been  s 


252 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Satueday,  August  1. 


occupied,  shall  not  be  sold  to  the  highest  bid- 
der ;  but  that  lands  unoccupied  should  be  sold 
to  the  highest  bidder — that  the  first  should 
be  sold  in  some  other  way.  I  think  the 
amendment  may  be  construed  to  make  no 
provision  for  lands  previously  occupied. 

Mr.  DULEY.  I  think  the  section  very 
plainly  sets  forth  the  terms  upon  which  the 
lands  shall  be  disposed  of,  which  were  occu- 
pied previous  to  the  survey.  I  am  aware  that 
a  great  portion  of  the  school  lands  have  been 
settled  on  previous  to  the  survey,  and  pro- 
vision is  made  by  the  Enabling  Act  whereby 
the  State  may  receive  an  equivalent  for  those 
lands. 

Mr.  HARDING  oflfered  the  following  sub- 
stitute for  the  additional  section : 

"  All  school  lands  belonging  to  the  State  previ- 
ous to  being  offered  for  sale  shall  be  appraised  by 
a  board  of  Appraisers  who  shall  be  appointed  by 
the  Superintendent  of  Public  Instruction;  and 
no  such  lands  shall  be  sold  for  less  than  the  ap- 
praised value,  but  shall  be  sold  in  small  parcels  afld 
at  public  auction." 

Mr.  McCLURE.  There  seems  to  be  a  dis- 
position manifested  by  some  members  of 
this  Convention  to  prescribe  a  certain  course 
which  the  Legislature  shall  pursue.  Now  I 
believe  it  is  said  tliat  every  generation  grows 
wiser  and  weaker.  It  seems  to  me  that  we 
ought  to  leave  something  for  the  Legislature 
to  do.  Now  I  never  expect  to  occupy  a  high- 
er position  in  public  life  than  a  representative 
here,  but  others  will  probably  be  elevated  far 
above  the  sphere  of  legislator,  and  it  is  a 
mistake  when  they  come  to  the  conclusion 
that  those  who  come  after  them  will  not  be  so 
competent  as  they  to  attend  to  this  matter. 
1  believe  that  when  we  are  dead  and  gone,  un- 
less it  may  be  some  at  the  other  end  of  the 
Capitol,  there  will  be  wiser  heads  than  ours, 
and  they  will  be  in  the  Legislature  to  control 
this  matter.  I  think  the  only  thing  we  have 
to  do,  is  to  lay  down  general  principles  and 
leave  the  details  entirely  to  the  Legislature. 
We  ought  not  to  say  that  those  lands  shall  be 
sold  so  and  so,  but  leave  the  details  with  the 
Legislature  to  prescribe  as  cu-cumstances  may 
require. 

Mr.  WILSON.  Mr.  Pbbsident,  when  we 
talk  about  the  honesty  of  the  Legislature  we 
nmst  close  our  eyes  upon  the  past.  This 
school  fund  is  an  inmiense  one,  I  understand 
that  we  liave  about  three  million  acres  of  land, 


and  they  will  be  worth  ten  millions  of  dollars. 
Now  legislatures  have  been  swerved  from  the 
path  of  right,  and  to  say  that  it  is  assuring  in 
us  to  restrict  the  Legislature,  is  not  good  logic 
or  good  sense.  No  influences  are  brought  to 
bear  upon  us  here.  We  are  not  surrounded 
with  the  influences  which  speculators  use  with 
the  Legislature.  Looking  at  the  past  we 
must  see  the  danger  of  leaving  this  thing  un- 
restrained. Therefore  I  believe  it  to  be  our 
duty  to  restrict  the  action  of  the  Legislature. 
And  by  no  principle  of  reasoning  whatever, 
can  we  avoid  this  conclusion.  I  do  hope  that 
we,  as  a  Convention,  framing  a  Constitution, 
will  throw  such  restraints  around  the  sale 
of  the  school  lands  as  will  make  it  as  nearly 
impossible  as  practicable,  for  the  Legislature 
in  any  way,  to  squander  them  either  by  acts 
of  omission  or  commission.  I  am  astonished 
to  hear  gentlemen  talk  of  the  Legislature,  as 
though  they  never  could  do  wrong.  It  has 
almost  become  a  matter  of  course,  when  there 
is  so  large  a  pile  as  this,  for  the  Legislature  to 
step  aside  from  the  path  of  right. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  If  I  understand  it  cor- 
rectly, we  now  have  the  report,  a  substitute 
for  that,  an  amendment  to  the  substitute,  and 
finally  a  substitute  for  the  substitute.  Now 
I  want  to  get  at  the  bottom  of  this  matter 
once,  and  therefore  I  again  move  the  previous 
question. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  hope  we  shall  not  be 
forced  to  a  vote  upon  the  question  without 
consideration.  The  amendment  to  the  sub- 
stitute offered  by  the  gentleman  from  Winona, 
(Mr.  Duley)  seems  to  have  struck  a  point 
upon  which  there  appears  to  be  considerable 
difference  of  opinion,  and  I  know  not  why 
oiu:  discussion  should  not  be  as  well  upon 
tliis  question  as  on  any  other.  For  my  own 
p:irt  I  am  opposed  to  it.  I  am  satisfied  that 
the  substitute  ought  to  be  adopted  in  the  place 
report,  and  I  am  not  willing  to  go  any  further 
tlian  that  goes  in  restricting  the  action  of  the 
Legislature.  One  gentleman  is  very  appro- 
hijnsive  of  the  honesty  of  our  future  Legisla- 
tures, and  he  reminds  us  of  other  and  past 
I  jgislatures,  where  they  have  pursued  a 
V  rong  course.  But  I  am  reminded,  too,  that 
Constitutional  Conventions  have  made  mis- 
ti.kes,  and  so  great  mistakes  that  the  people 
have  refused  to  endorse  their  action.  And  it 
seems  to  me  that  we  make  a  mistake,  if  we 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Sattjkdat,  August  1. 


253 


restrict  the  action  of  the  Legislature  further 
than  is  proposed  in  the  substitute  for  the 
report.  The  Legislature  may  think  best  to 
adopt  the  system  of  leaving  to  the  counties 
or  districts  the  management  of  these  lands. 
If  they  should,  it  seems  to  me  tliat  those 
counties  or  districts  should  have  the  right  to 
sell  the  lands  in  such  manner  as  they  tliink 
proper.  If  the  proceeds  are  to  be  given  to 
them,  the  lands  ought  to  be  disposed  of  by 
them  in  their  own  way.  With  the  example 
of  Wisconsm  before  us,  and  knowing  the 
feeling  which  exists  in  community  upon  tliis 
subject,  I  think  it  would  be  difficult  indeed 
for  any  body  of  speculators  to  buy  up  the 
Legislature  for  the  present.  If  there  is  any 
argument  to  be  drawn  from  the  case  of  "Wis- 
consin, I  think  it  is  in  favor  of  leaving  the 
matter  with  the  Legislature,  because  that  case 
will  be  a  warning  to  them. 

There  are  some  other  reasons  why  I  am 
opposed  to  putting  these  restrictions  into  the 
Constitution.  It  has  been  said  here  that 
there  are  a  large  number  of  men  in  the  Terri- 
tory interested  in  these  school  lands.  Now 
if  you  insert  a  clause  in  the  Constitution 
which  they  consider  unjust,  they  will  not  be 
likely  to  approve  of  the  Constitution  ;  and  it 
may  be  that  a  majority  for  this  or  the  other 
Constitution  may  turn  upon  that  very  point, 
and  upon  their  votes.  At  any  rate,  I  am  sat- 
isfied that  a  provision  of  this  kind  would  pre- 
vent many  persons  from  voting  for  the  Consti- 
tution, and  as  I  feel  perfectly  safe  in  leaving 
the  matter  to  the  Legislature,  I  shall  vote 
against  an  amendment  of  that  kind.  « 

Mr.  NORTH.  If  there  really  be  force 
in  that  last  objection,  and  if  those  men 
who  are  upon  the  school  sections  are  already 
so  strong  tliat  it  is  not  safe  now  to  take  a 
stand  against  them,  I  inquire  how  long  it  will 
be  before  the  whole  of  our  school  lands  will 
be  picked  up  by  those  men  ? 

Mr.  COLBURN.  The  gentleman  must 
have  misapprehended  my  meaning.  My  idea 
was,  that  there  being  nearly  an  equal  divis- 
ion of  opinion  upon  this  question,  it  would 
require  but  very  few  votes  to  turn  the  balance, 
and  there  might  be  enough  of  that  very  class 
to  turn  the  scale  against  the  Constitution. 

The  amendment  to  the  additional  section 
was  not  agreed  to. 

The  additional  section  was  not  agreed  to. 


The  substitute'  for  the  report  was  then 
adopted. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  now  offer  the  following 
as  an  additional  section  : 

"  Sec.  —  The  proceeds  of  all  lands  that  have 
been,  or  may  hereafter  be  gi-anted  or  set  apart 
and  reserved  by  the  United  States,  to  the  Terri- 
tory or  State  of  Minnesota,  for  the  use  and  support 
of  a  University,  shall  be  and  remain  a  perpetual 
fund,  to  be  |called  the  "  University  Fund,"  which 
shall  be  appropriated  in  such  manner  as  the 
Legislature  of  said  State  may  prescribe,  to  the 
use  and  support  of  "The  University  of  Min- 
nesota," but  for  no  other  purpose.  And  the  said 
University  shall  forever  remain  one  and  indi" 
visible." 

I  would  say  in  support  of  the  amendment 
that  in  February  7,  1851,  the  Legislative  As- 
sembly of  this  Territory  incorporated  "the  Uni- 
versity of  Minnesota,"  and  provided  for  its  gov- 
ernment. It  has  been  in  operation  ever  since. 
At  the  time  it  was  incorporated,  it  was  pro- 
vided by  the  terms  of  the  act,  that  all  lands 
which  should  hereafter  be  gi-anted  by  the 
United  States,  should  be  a  perpetual  fund,  to 
be  called  the  "  University  Fund,"  to  be  ap- 
plied to  the  use  and  support  of  that  Univer- 
sity. I  propose  this  section  as  carrying  out 
the  terms  of  that  act. 

Mr.  MANTOR.  I  can  see  no  particular 
use  of  that  section.  In  looking  at  the  second 
section  of  the  Enabling  Act,  I  find  all  that  is 
necessary  to  be  provided  for  in  reference  to 
this  matter. 

•  Mr.  WILSON.  Will  the  gentleman  inform 
us  how  many  acres  were  granted  for  the  use 
of  that  University. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  There  was  passed,  not 
many  days  from  the  passage  of  this  act  of  the 
Territorial  Assembly,  an  act  of  Congress 
which  provides  that  there  should  be  set  apart 
and  reserved  for  the  use  of  the  University  in 
the  Territory  of  Mmnesota,  two  townships  of 
land,  under  the  direction  of  the  Secretary  of 
the  Interior.  That  land  has  been,  to  a  greater 
or  less  extent,  set  apart'and  reserved.  There 
was,  I  believe,  some  additional  legislation  by 
Congress  to  the  effect  that  the  Board  of  Re- 
gents of  the  University  might  locate  the  lands 
subject  to  the  approval  of  the  Secretary  of 
the  Interior.  Those  lands  have  been  selected 
by  the  Board  of  Regents  of  Minnesota,  and 
their  location  has  been  partly  or  wholly  ap- 
proved by  the  Secretary  of  the  Interior.  In 
addition  to  that,  there  has  been  legislation  by 


254 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Satukday,  August  1. 


the  Territorial  Legislature,  authorizing  the 
Regents  of  the  University  to  raise  a  fund  by 
bond  and  mortgage  upon  those  lands.  That 
has  been  done.  And  I  understand  the  pro- 
vision of  the  Act  of  Congress,  called  the  En- 
abling Act,  as  being  merely  the  carrying  out 
of  the  [offer  which  has  been  made  in  the 
former  Act  of  Congress.  A  subdivision  of 
section  five  of  the  Enabling  Act  provides — 

"That  seventy-two  sections  of  land  shall  be  set 
apart  and  reserved  for  the  use  and  support  of  a 
State  University,  to  be  selected  by  the  Governor 
of  said  State,  subject  to  the  approval  of  the  Com- 
missioner of  the  General  Land  Office,  and  to  be 
appropriated  and  applied  in  such  manner  as  the 
Legislature  of  said  State  may  prescribe  for  the 
purpose  aforesaid,  but  for  no  other  purposes.,' 

My  object  is,  that  the  University  of  Minne- 
sota, as  it  has  been  incorporated  by  the  act 
of  the  Territorial  Legislature,  and  as  it  has 
actually  received  the  benefits  arising  from 
those  lands,  shall  be  made  by  the  Constitu- 
tion, the  recipient  of  the  benefits  to  be  derived 
from  them. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  I  do  not  believe  in 
making  ex-post-facto  laws,  or  in  making  any 
regulations  which  vrill  vitiate  the  terms  of 
contract  obligations.  If  I  understand  the 
matter  correctly,  funds  to  complete  the  build- 
ing have  already  been  raised  .by  bond  and 
mortgage  upon  those  lands. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.    I  understand  so. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  I  am  not  disposed  to 
tie  up  those  lands  in  a  perpetual  fund,  if  they 
have  already  been  pledged  for  money  which 
has  been  expended.  I  certainly  would  not 
put  an  officer  of  the  University  in  a  position 
that  such  a  provision  would  place  him  in.  I 
do  not  understand  the  act  of  Congress  to  say 
that  it  shall  be  and  remain  a  perpetual 
fund,  but  that  it  is  to  be  appropriated  for  the 
support  of  an  University,  no  matter  whether 
it  be  used  to  build  a  buDding,  to  purchase  a 
library,  or  anything  else  of  that  kind. 

Mr.  WILSON.  I  move  to  amend  the 
amendment  by  striking  out  the  words,  "  and 
"  the  said  University  shall  forever  remain  one 
"  and  indivisible."  I  do  not  think  it  will  be 
divided,  but  I  do  not  want  the  University  so 
tied  up. 

Mr,  SECOMBE.  By  the  act  of  Congress, 
approved  February  Uth,  1851,  it  was  provided 
as  follows : 


"That  the  Secretary  of  the  Interior  be,  and  he 
is  hereby  authorized  and  directed  to  set  apart,  and 
reserve  from  sale  out  of  any  of  the  public  lands 
within  the  Territory  of  Minnesota,  to  which  the 
Indian  title  has  been  or  may  be  extinguished,  and 
not  otherwise  appropriated,  a  quantity  of  land  not 
exceeding  two  entire  townships  for  the  use  and 
support  of  a  University  in  said  Territory,  and  for 
no  other  use  and  purpose  whatever,  to  be  located 
by  legal  subdivisions  of  not  less  than  one  entire 
section." 

And  by  the  act  of  the  Legislature  of  Min- 
nesota, it  was  provided  as  follows : 

"There  shall  be  established  in  this  Territory  an 
institution  under  the  name  and  style  of  the  '  Uni- 
versity of  Minnesota.'  The  proceeds  of  the  lands 
which  may  hereafter  be  granted  by  the  United 
States  to  the  Territory  for  the  support  of  an  Uni- 
versity shall  be  and  remain  a  perpetual  fund,  to  be 
called  the  '  University  Fund ; '  the  interest  of 
which  shall  be  appropriated  to  the  support  of  the 
University,  and  no  sectarian  instruction  shall  be 
allowed  in  such  University." 

Here  we  have,  in  the  first  place,  the  estab- 
lishment of  the  institution  under  the  style  of 
the  "  University  of  Minnesota,"  with  the  pro- 
vision that  the  proceeds  of  the  lands  which 
shall  be  granted  for  the  University  shall  be  an 
"  University  Fund,"  and  shall  be  applied  to 
the  use  of  that  institution.  We  have  then  an 
act  of  Congress  setting  apart  and  reserving 
such  lands,  and  it  does  seem  to  me  that  there 
should  be  some  disposition  made  of  those 
lands,  as  well  as  of  the  lands  set  apart  for  the 
support  of  Schools ;  and  my  only  object  is  to 
provide  that  that  disposition  shall  be  made  in 
accordance  with  existing  laws.  The  amend- 
ment I  have  offered,  as  an  addition  section, 
embraces,  so  far  as  I  have  been  able  to  do  so, 
that  object. 

Mr.  WILSON.  By  a  calculation  of  the 
value  of  that  land,  I  find  it  will  amount  to 
some  $400,000.  That,  the  Legislature  should 
have  the  right  to  dispose  of  as  it  sees  fit ;  and 
it  may  be  necessaiy  to  make  a  branch  of  the 
University,  which  could  not  be  done  imder 
such  a  Constitutional  provision. 

The  amendment  to  the  amendment  was 
agreed  to. 

The  additional  section,  as  amended,  was  not 
agreed  to. 

Mr.  ALDRICII.  I  move  to  amend  by  ad- 
ding, as  an  additional  section,  section  four  of 
the  report. 

Mr.  PECKIIAM.  I  move  to  amend  that, 
by  striking  out  the  word  "  four"  in  line  five, 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Satubday,  August  1. 


255 


and  inserting  "  five,"  and  striking  out  "  twen- 
ty" and  insert  "fifteen,"  and  striking  out 
all  after  the  ^ord  "  school"  in  the  sixth  line 
and  insert  "  which  shall  not  have  been  main- 
"  tained  at  least  three  months  during  the 
"  school  year." 

Mr.  STANNARD.  I  hope  the  gentleman 
will  accept  an  amendment  to  strike  out  the 
words  "  three  months."  I  think  the  interest 
of  the  people  will  be  sufficient  to  keep  up 
the  schools  for  at  least  three  months. 

Mr.  MORGAN.  I  hope  the  amendment  of 
the  gentleman  from  Hennepin  (Mr.  Aldrich,) 
will  not  prevail.  I  believe  the  District  School 
system  is  embraced  in  that  fourth  section. 
That  matter  should  be  left  to  the  Legislature, 
to  be  provided  for  hereafter. 

Mr.  ALDRICH.  I  am  not  particular  about 
accepting  the  amendment.  I  am  aware  that 
dififerent  rules  prevail  in  different  States. 
Some  States  include  scholars  between  the 
ages  of  four  and  twenty,  and  others  between 
the  ages  of-  five  and  eighteen.  If  our  school 
fund  is  to  be  as  large  as  many  gentlemen  ex- 
pect, it  will  be  sufficient  to  educate  all  schol- 
ars between  the  ages  of  four  and  twenty. 
But  I  accept  the  amendment. 

Mr.  HARDING.  I  move  to  amend  the 
amendment  as  modified,  by  striking  out  the 
word  "  fifteen"  and  inserting  "  eighteen." 

Mr.  HAYDEN.  I  hope  the  amendment 
will  not  prevail  If  it  does,  I  shall  be  com- 
pelled to  vote  against  the  original  amendment, 
entirely.  I  think  that  scholars  should  have 
the  privilege  of  attending  school  up  to  the  age 
of  twenty -one.  I  have  a  family  of  children 
whom  I  want  to  send  to  school ;  and  if  we 
are  to  have  a  graded  system,  I  want  the  priv- 
ilege of  sending  them  until  they  are  twenty- 
one  years  of  age,  and  I  am  opposed  to  re- 
stricting the  privilege  to  a  less  term  of  years. 

Mr.  PECKHAM.  I  do  not  understand  that 
the  amendment  will  cut  off  any  person 
from  attending  school,  as  long  as  he  may  de- 
sire. It  only  provides  that  the  fimd  shall  be 
distributed  in  proportion  to  the  number  of 
children  who  shall  attend  school  between  cer- 
tain ages.  The  rule  will  be  universal,  and 
therefore  just,  equitable  and  fair  through  the 
whole  State. 

Mr.  NORTH.  We  have  adopted  a  substi- 
tute for  the  whole  report,  but  I  don't  know 
but  we  had  better  go  to  work  and  put  in  all 


this  report  which  we  have  once  stricken  out, 
and  insert  all  the  minutia  of  legislation, 
against  which  gentlemen  have  talked  so  much 
for  half  the  day.  If  so,  let  us  make  clean 
work  of  it ;  but  if  we  are  to  adhere  to  the  de- 
cision of  this  morning,  let  us  shut  aU  these 
amendments  out.  I  do  not  believe  in  going 
over  the  whole  groimd  again. 

The  amendment  to  the  amendment  was  re- 
jected. 

The  amendment  was  then  disagreed  to. 

Mr.  ALDRICH.  I  move  the  following  as 
an  additional  section : 

"  Sec.  —  The  board  of  Supervisors  in  each 
County  shall  constitute  a  board  of  Appraisers, 
whose  duty  it  shall  be,  within  three  months  pre- 
vious to  the  time  any  of  the  school  lands  in  their 
respective  counties  are  offered  for  sale,  to  fix  the 
valuation  thereof;  and  in  no  case  shall  any  portion 
of  said  lands  be  sold  for  less  than  the  appraised 
value,  and  only  ia  small  parcels." 

Mr.  STANNARD.  Mr.  Peesident,  I  wish 
the  gentleman  would  fix  the  limit  of  the  quan- 
tity that  may  be  sold — say  how  big  it  shall 
be ;  whether  it  shall  be  as  big  as  a  piece  of 
chalk — or  twenty  or  forty  acres.  (Laugh- 
ter). 

Mr.  ALDRICH.  I  will  modify  the  amend- 
ment so  that  it  shall  read : 

"  And  shall  be  sold  in  quantities  not  less  than 
eighty  acres." 

Mr.  COGGS  WELL.  Mr.  President,  I  have 
.  an  amendment  to  that,  to  come  in  at  the  end 
of  the  section. 

The  amendment  to  the  amendment  was 
read,  as  follows : 

"  Provided,  always,  If  at  the  time  of  the  ap- 
praisement of  any  of  said  lands,  the  same  shall  be 
occupied  by  an  actual  settler,  who  shall  have  made 
improvements  thereon,  then  the  same  shall  be  ap- 
praised at  the  actual  value  of  what  the  same  would 
have  been  worth  provided  the  same  had  not  been 
occupied,  and  exclusive  of  such  improvements;  and 
no  person  shall  have  the  right  to  the  possession  of 
any  such  lands  until  the  value  of  such  improve- 
ments shall  have  been  paid  or  tendered  to  the 
owner  thereof;  and,  in  all  cases,  if  the  owner  of 
any  such  improvements  shall  be  willing  to  pay 
said  appraised  value,  then  and  in  that  case,  he 
shall  have  a  priority  of  right  to  the  same." 

Mr.  HARDING.  Mr.  PBEsroExr,  I  hope 
the  gentleman  will  strike  out  that  part  which 
gives  the  settler  priority  of  right,  if  he  chooses 
to  pay  the  appraisement  at  any  time.  I  don't 
like  that, 

Mr.  WILSON.    Mr.  Peeside>t,  I  hope  we 


256 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Satuedat,  August  1. 


do  not  intend  to  pass  such  a  law  as  this. 
Where  people  have  gone,  with  their  eyes  open, 
upon  the  school  lands,  I  am  in  favor  of  leav- 
ing them  to  bear  the  consequences.  If  we 
make  such  a  law,  our  lands  will  all  run  down 
to  a  dollar  and  a  quarter  an  acre.  I  am  in 
favor  of  having  every  man  bearing  the  con- 
sequences of  his  own  act.  I  think  more  of 
the  school  fund,  than  of  the  interest  of  any 
individual.  And  if  we  make  one  exception, 
it  will  be  a  great  loss  to  the  school  fund. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  Mr.  President,  I  do 
not  desire  to  talk  on  this  matter ;  but  if  gen- 
tlemen are  going  to  legislate  here  in  regard  to 
these  school  lands,  I  want  to  say  a  word  for 
those  men  who  have  been  so  much  abused  for 
going  on  these  lands.  I  want  those  men  pro- 
tected to  a  certain  extent.  I  desire  the  yeas 
and  nays  to  be  called  on  my  amendment ;  and 
that  every  member  should  be  compelled  to 
vote  for  or  against  it,  that  we  may  see  how 
gentlemen  stand  on  this  school  land  legisla- 
tion. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  I  will  put  down  my 
name  ;  and  if  any  gentleman  wants  it  plainer, 
I  will  tell  him,  that  I  believe  that  every  man 
who  settles  on  the  school  lands  after  the  sur- 
vey, and  with  knowledge  of  the  fact,  ought  to 
loose  his  improvements,  if  he  were  the  angel 
Gabriel  dropped  down  !   It  is  a  pubhc  injury. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  I  believe  that  every 
man  who  lays  claim  to  one  foot  of  these  gov- 
ernment lands,  is  a  trespasser  against  the 
State  and  the  right  of  children  yet  unborn. 

Mr.  McKUNE.  I  would  just  as  soon  give 
up  the  whole— just  as  soon  these  settlers 
should  have  the  remainder  of  the  land.  If 
we  are  to  do  an  unjust  thing,  let  us  do  some- 
thing notorious. 

Mr.  BOLLES.  Mr.  Pbesident,  If  I  un- 
derstand the  amendment,  it  is,  that  upon  all 
school  lands  that  may  hereafter  be  settled,  up 
to  the  time  of  appraisement,  the  improve- 
ments shall  be  taken  into  consideration.  It 
says  to  these  men,  "  put  on  your  claims  and 
"improvements,  and  you  shall  be  paid  for 
"  them."  My  objection  to  the  proposition  is, 
that  it  holds  out  inducements  to  settle  the 
school  lands  hereafter, 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  So  far  as  I  am  con- 
cerned, Mr.  Pbesident,  I  had  just  as  lief 
make  myself  notorious  in  advocating  this 
amendment  as  not.    I  am  entirely  willing  to 


take  all  the  responsibility — perfectly  ready 
and  willmg  to  father  the  whole  thing.  But, 
sir,  when  we  come  to  look  at  the  character  of 
the  amendment,  we  find  that  it  works  nothing 
like  wrong  or  injustice  to  the  school  fund. 
We  do  not  find  that  the  fund  is  to  be  depre- 
ciated by  it  in  the  least.  We  find  that  when 
the  appraisement  is  made,  it  shall  be,  at  what 
the  lands  would  have  been  worth,'provided 
they  had  remained  untouched  and  unoccu- 
pied. Is  not  that  enough  ?  If  I  ask';  for 
more,  I  ask  for  injustice.  Do  you  not  get  all 
youl^coxild  get,  provided  the  land  was  not  set- 
tled upon  ?  I  ask  any  gentleman  if  that  is 
not  so  ? — and  if;  when  the  land  comes  to  be 
appraised,  the  individual  who  has  gone  on 
there  and  made  his  improvements,  shall  be 
ready  and  willing  to  pay  the  amount  of  the 
appraisement,  does  he  not  pay  a  fair  consid- 
eration for  the  land  ?  All  that  it  is  worth,  and 
all  that  men,  acting  under  the  sanctions  and 
obligations  of  an  oath,  say  that  it  is  worth  ? 
Do  you  want  twice  their  value  ?  Do  you 
want  one  cent  more  than  they  are  worth  ?  I 
know  you  do  not  intend  any  such  thing,  when 
you  come  to  reflect  upon  it.  I  know  that  the 
interests  of  the  childi-en  of  the_^Stato  do  not 
demand  any  such  thing.  They  [demand  noth- 
ing but  what  is  right  and  just;  and  I  say, 
when  a  man  will  stand  up  here,  and  ask  of 
these  hardy  settlers  any  more  than  what  is 
right  and  just,  he  is  unworthy  of  the  name  of 
a  representative^of  the  people ^of  Minnesota, 
let  him  come  from  what  quarter  he  may. 

Besides  this,  Mr.  President,  when  a  man 
has  gone' upon  a 'piece  of  school  land,  not 
knowing  so  much  about  the  lines  as  some 
gentleman  here ;  when  he  has  gone  on  inno- 
cently, and  for  the  purpose  of  making  such 
land  his  home  as  long  as  ho  may  remain  in 
this  world ;  when  he  has  gone  on  cultivating 
the  soil  and  improving  every  day,  making  for 
himself  a  residence  and  reputation,  helping  to 
bear  the  burdens  of  government — I  ask  you, 
sir,  would  you  turn  him  away  from  his  im- 
provements and  his  home  ?  If  any  would  do 
that,  I  ask  the  man  to  stand  up  now  before 
the  House  and  the  people  and  say  so. 

Mr.  GALBRAITU  (rising).     I  say  so. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  I  say  then,  Mr. 
Pbesident,  that  man  is  not  the  man  to  repre- 
sent my  section  of  the  Territory.  I  say 
moreover,  that  man  isnot  the  man  to  rcprc- 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES—Sattbday,  Augpst  1. 


257 


sent  the  interests  of  the  gchool  fund  of  the 
State  of  Minnesota ;  and  woe  to  the  man  that 
will  come  into  this  Hall  and  undertake  to 
advocate  a  doctrine  of  that  kind.  I  say,  Mr. 
Pbesident,  it  is  rank  iniquity  and  injustice ; 
and  I  should  not  be  true  to  myself  and  my 
trust,  if  I  did  not  pronoimce  its  condemnation. 

All  I  ask  is,  that  those  who  have  gone 
upon  these  school  lands  innocently,  and  not 
knowing  the  collateral  right,  in  the  case,  may 
be  protected ;  that  they  may  not  be  turned 
away  from  their  homes — ^homes  built  under 
circumstances  of  peril  and  privation  and  toil, 
when  it  was  Hke  drawing  their  life  blood.  I 
know  there  have  been  such  cases.  I  know 
of  many.  I  know  them  weU ;  and  to  turn 
such  men  away  from  their  homes  and  their 
improvements — I  say  it  is  wrong,  it  is  iniqui- 
tous and  unjust ;  and  in  my  judgment  the 
man  that  would  advocate  such  a  proceeding  is 
not  the  man  to  represent  the  best  interests  of 
this  Territory. 

Now,  sir,  let  us  do  what  is  right  and  just 
in  this  matter ;  and  that  is,  that  the  school 
fund  shall  receive  a  just  and  fair  consideration  ; 
and  that  at  the  same  time,  the  man  that  has 
gone  upon  the  land,  and  given  to  it  an  increas- 
ing value,  shall  not  be  turned  out  upon  the 
cold  world  without  a  dollar  for  his  improve- 
ments. I  know  there  are  men  upon  the 
school  lands  willing  to  pay  the  price  they 
would  be  worth,  provided  their  rights  were 
not  to  be  touched — men  who  are  able  and 
wflling  to  pay,  and  would  secure  and  re- 
secure  the  price — men  of  fenulies,  who  have 
well  cultivated  farms — acres  of  com,  wheat, 
and  potatoes — men  who  have  paid  taxes  for 
the  support  of  government — good,  honest 
citizens.  These  men,  sir,  are  part  of  the 
wealth  and  prosperity  of  this  Territory,  and 
I  do  not  like  to  see  them  ruined.  I  will  not, 
if  I  can  help  it. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  Mr.  Pbesident,  I 
suppose  it  might  be  expected  that  I  should 
get  a  Uttle  cross.  But  that  is  not  the  kind  of 
stuff  that  makes  me  cross.  I  have  simply 
to  say  on  this  matter — and  I  hope  I  shall  say 
it  quietly  and  peacefully — that  there  is  a 
regular  rule  about  everything.  I  suppose 
every  man  will  admit,  that  no  man  can  settle 
on  a  school  section  of  surveyed  land,  without 
knowing  that  it  is  a  school  section ;  and  I  say 
again,  that,  knowing  what  he  is  about,  he  has 
33 


no  more  right  there,  than  if  it  were  individual 
property.  He  might  just  as  well  go  upon  my 
land. 

Now,  where  are  you  going  to  draw  the  dis- 
tinction ?  If  3-0U  let  the  good,  moral,  indus- 
trious, improving  man  go  upon  them,  I  can 
go,  and  jTom,  Dick  and  Harry  can  go  upon 
them ;  and  where  one  would  go  upon  these 
lands  with  decent  husbandry,  and  increase 
their  value,  one  himdred  would  go  upon  them 
skinning  and  withdrawing  the  life-blood  of 
the  land. 

These  school  lands  are  now  held  in  trust 
for  the  State  by  the  government  of  the  United 
States ;  and  as  soon  as  we  shall  be  a  State  in 
the  Union,  they  vrill  be  held  by  the  State  in 
trust  for  the  children  of  the  State,  If  we 
aUow  one  to  settle  them,  we  must  allow  all, 
else  our  rule  will  not  be  equal  and  democratic, 
as  gentleman  would  have  us  to  be.  TVe  are 
asking  for  nothing  wrong.  "We  ask  only  for 
the  value  of  the  land — the  money  the  land 
will  bring ;  and  that  these  men  shall  not  go 
upon  it  and  cultivate  it,  well  or  iU. 

The  best  plan  is  to  keep  all  and  everybody 
off  entirely.  That  is  the  plan  that  I  advo- 
cate, and  I  think  it  is  a  plan  that  a  majority 
of  this  Convention  will  advocate.  If  one 
man  goes  on,  others  may  go — have  not  I  as 
good  a  right  as  any  other  man? — ^and  then 
get  an  appraisement,  and  an  assessment  of 
damages !  Why,  sir,  the  school  lands  in 
every  part  of  the  Territory  would  be  settled 
upon  in  one  month  after  such  a  proposition 
should  become  a  law ;  and  there  woxild  be 
vast  associations  and  combinations  formed — 
and  they  we  already  formed — to  unite  in 
large  bodies  and  break  down  the  sales  of  the 
school  lands,  and  thus  the  school  fund  would 
be  thrown  away.  I  tell  you,  sir,  we  ought 
to  hedge  about  this  fimd;  and  that  is  the 
only  thing  we  have  not  done  enough  of.  We 
want  a  hedge  about  it.  The  proposition  we 
have  just  adopted  is  a  good  one.  It  enunci- 
ates a  good  sound  principle ;  and  if  I  can  find 
means  to  hedge  about  this  land,  so  that  no 
man  can  go  upon  it  to  the  hurt  of  the  sdiool 
fund,  I  shall  vote  for  it. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  I  want  to  say  a  few 
words  in  reply  to  the  gentleman  from  Steele 
County,  (Mr.  Cogswell.)  He  seems  to  think 
there  will  be  no  other  result  of  his  amend- 
ment than  the  protection  of  the  settler.    But 


258 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Monday,  August  8. 


if  I  wanted  to  do  a  kind  thing,  especially  for 
the  boys,  to  go  into  the  woods  and  help  them- 
selves, I  would  vote  for  his  amendment.  I 
know  ther«  are  valuable  timbered  school 
lands;  and  under  this  protection,  the  boys 
could  go  upon  them,  cut  wood  as  they  please, 
and  get  pay  for  so  doing  besides.  I  think  the 
gentleman's  speech  would  look  well,  if  he 
were  arguing  for  the  repeal  of  the  law,  which 
makes  it  the  duty  of  the  County  Commission- 
ers to  supervise  and  prevent  depredation  and 
waste  of  timber  on  our  school  lands. 

The  yeas  and  nays  were  ordered  on  the 
adoption  of  Mr.  Coggswell's  amendment, 
and  being  taken  resulted — yeas  V,  nays  35 — 
as  follows : 

F«a«— Messrs.  Colburn,  Coggswell,  Hanson, 
Mantor,  Phelps,  Thompson,  and  Vaughn.— 7. 

Nays — Messrs.  Aldrich,  Anderson,  Ayer,  Bal- 
combe,  Baldwin,  Bates,  Billings,  Butler,  Cleghorn, 
Coombs,  Davis,  Duley,  Eschlie,  Folsom,  Gal- 
braith,  Gerrish,  Hall,  Hayden,  Harding,  Hudson, 
HoUey,  Lyle,  McKune,  McClure,  Messer,  Morgan, 
Murphy,  North,  Putnam,  Peckham,  Stannard,  Se- 
combe,  Watson,  Wilson,  and  Sheldon. — 35. 

So  the  amendment  was  rejected. 

The  question  was  then  taken  upon  Mr. 
Aldeich's  second  amendment,  and  it  was  also 
rejected. 

Mr.  ALDRICH.  I  now  offer  the  following 
additional  section : 

"  Sec.  — .  Institutions  for  the  benefit  of  those 
inhabitants  who  are  deaf,  dumb,  blind  or  insane, 
shall  always  be  fostered  and  sustained." 

Mr.  BILLINGS.  Mr.  Pbesident,  I  pro- 
pose to  amend  the  section,  so  that  it  would 
read,  "  Institutions  for  the  benefit  of  persons 
"  who  are  deaf,  dumb,  blind  or  insane,  shall 
"  always  be  fostered ;  and  the  Legislature 
"  shall  encourage  the  promotion  of  intellectual, 
"  scientific  and  agricultural  improvements,  and 
"  as  soon  as  practicable  provide  for  the  estab- 
"  lishment  of  an  Agricultural  School,  and 
"  place  the  same  under  the  supervision  of  the 
"  Regents  of  the  University." 

The  amendment  to  the  amendment  was  re- 
jected. 

The  original  amendment  was  also  rejected. 

Mr,  ALDRICH.  I  offer  the  foUowing 
as  an  additional  section  : 

"  Sbc.  — .  The  Legislature  shall  encourage  the 
promotion  of  intellectual,  scientific,  and  agricultu- 
ral improvements,  and  shall  as  soon  as  practicable 
provide  for  the  establishment  of  an  Agricultural 
School.    The  Legislature  may  appropriate  all  salt 


springs,  with  the  six  sections  of  land  adjoining  or 
contiguous  thereto,  to  which  the  State,  on  admis- 
sion to  the  Union  shall  be  entitled  according  to  the 
provisions  of  the  Act  of  Congress,  entitled  '  An 
Act  to  authorize  the  people  of  Minnesota  to  form 
a  Constitution  and  State  government  preparatory 
to  their  admission  into  the  Union  on  an  equal  foot- 
ing with  the  original  States,'  and  any  land  which 
may  hereafter  be  granted  or  appropriated  for  such 
purpose,  for  the  support  and  maintenance  of  such 
school,  and  may  make  the  same  a  branch  of  the 
University  for  instruction  in  Agriculture  and  the 
natural  sciences  connected  therewith,  and  place 
the  same  under  the  supervision  of  the  Kegents  of 
the  University." 

This  amendment  was  also  rejected. 

Mr.  ALDRICH.  I  move  that  the  rules  be 
so  far  suspended  as  to  allow  this  report  as 
amended  to  be  referred  to  ,the  Committee  on 
Arrangement  and  Phraseology. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  Was  the  substitute 
adopted  in  place  of  the  report  ? 

Mr.  ALDRICH.  It  was  adopted  without 
change,  except  that  one  word  was  stricken 
out. 

Mr.  McCLURE.  It  seems  to  me  that  our 
rules  contemplate  the  reference  after  the  re- 
port is  read  a  third  time. 

Mr.  PUTNAM  moved  (at  half-past  four  o'- 
clock,) that  the  Convention  adjourn. 

The  motion  was  not  agreed  to. 

Mr.  PECKHAM.  Before  the  question  on 
suspending  the  rules  is  taken,  I  wish  to  move 
to  amend  the  report  by  restoring  the  word 
"exclusively,"  which  was  stricken  out. 

The  PRESIDENT.  The  motion  is  not  in 
order. 

Mr.  PECKHAM.  I  move  to  reconsider 
the  vote  by  which  the  Convention  struck  out 
that  word. 

The  PRESIDENT.  That  motion  is  out  of 
order,  until  the  other  motion  is  disposed  of. 

The  question  was  taken  on  the  motion  of 
Mr.  Aldrich,  and  it  was  agreed  to. 

And  thereupon,  the  report,  as  amended, 
was  referred  to  the  Committee  on  Arrange- 
ment and  Plu-aseology. 

And  then,  on  motion  of  Mr.  Folsom,  (at 
five  o'clock  and  forty  minut«s,)  the  Conven- 
tion adjourned. 


NINETEENTH  DAY. 

Monday,  August  3d,  1857. 
1'ho  Convention  met  at  nine  o'clock,  a.  m. 
Prayer  by  the  Chaplain,  Rev.  E.  D.  Neill. 


iriNXESOTA  CONTENTION  DEBATES— M:o>t)at,  August  3. 


259 


The  journal  of  Saturday  was  read  and  ap- 
proved. 

RETORT  OP  COMaOTTEE. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL,  by  unanimous  consent, 
made  the  following  Special  Report : 

"  The  Committee  upon  the  Preamble  and  Bill  of 
Rights,  to  whom  was  referred  the  Petition  of  B.  F. 
BoxD  and  others,  citizens  of  the  County  of  Dodge, 
praying  '  that  the  liberty  and  right  of  conscience 
'  to  all  citizens  may  be  secured,'  have  had  the  same 
under  consideration,  and  beg  leave  to  report — 

"  That  they  believe  it  to  be  our  duty  to  incorpo- 
rate nothing  into  the  Constitution  except  general 
and  fundamental  principles,  which  are  calculated 
to  guard  and  protect  the  rights  of  all  men  equally, 
and  that  clause  of  the  eighteenth  section  of  the 
BiU  of  Rights,  heretofore  reported  by  us,  which  is 
'  Xor  shall  any  control  or  interference  with  the 
'rights  of  conscience  be  permitted,  &c,,'  will  se- 
cure substantially  the  objects  desired  by  said  peti- 
tioners, and  that  if  any  farther  specific  or  special 
privileges  in  regard  to  the  service  of  civil  process, 
and  the  days  of  holding  elections,  not  mentioned 
in  the  Constitution,  are  required,  that  the  same 
should  be  done,  by  the  Legislature,  and  not  this 
Convention.  Therefore,  your  Conmiittee  would 
respectfully  ask  to  be  discharged  firom  the  farther 
consideration  of  the  subject." 

The  Report  was  accepted,  and  the  Commit- 
tee discharged. 

COrSTY   XSD   TOWXSHIP   ORGASIZATIOX. 

On  motion  of  Mr.  Colburs,  the  Convention 
resolved  itself  into  a  Committee  of  the  Whole, 
(Mr.  Galbhaith  in  the  Chair,)  upon  the  Re- 
port of  the  Committee  upon  County  and 
Township  Organizations.  (For  Report,  see 
proceedings  of  July  29th.) 

The  Report  was  read  by  clauses,  for 
amendment. 

Sec.  2.  No  new  county  shall  be  formed  or 
established  by  the  Le^^islature,  of  less  area  than 
four  hundred  square  miles,  nor  shall  any  organized 
county  be  divided,  or  have  any  part  stricken 
therefrom,  without  submitting  the  question  to  a 
vote  of  the  electors  of  the  county  or  counties  to  be 
directly  affected  or  dismembered,  and  unless  a 
majority  of  all  the  votes  shall  be  in  favor  of  the 
same. 

Mr.  BILLINGS  moved  to  strike  out  section 
two. 

Mr.  WILSON.  I  hope  the  section  will  not 
be  stricken  out,  for  the  reason  that  the  matter 
of  changing  the  boundaries  of  counties  has 
been  a  subject  of  firaud  from  beginning  to  end. 
There  is  is  no  subject  upon  which  there  have 
been  more  iniquitous  proceedings,  more  high- 
handed villainy,  than  in  the  matter  of  chang- 


ing county  boundaries  and  coimty  seats,  even 
in  our  own  Territory.  It  has  been  done  as  a 
matter  of  political  discipline  in  some  cases. 
It  is  made  a  matter  of  bargain  in  the  Legisla- 
ture, by  promising  votes  for  such  purposes, 
in  order  to  procure  votes  for  other  matters. 
Thus  the  interests  of  the  people  are  bargained 
away.  There  have  been  cases  before  the 
Legislature — and  it  is  said  that  some  of  our 
Winona  delegates  were  engaged  in  it,  though 
I  do  not  know  that  it  is  so — when  the  Legisla- 
ting came  near  fixing  a  county  seat  where 
there  was  not  a  settler.  There  have  been 
cases  where  they  have  taken  off  a  part  of  one 
coimty  and  attached  it  to  another,  where 
there  was  not  only  no  necessity  for  it,  but 
where  it  made  the  county  of  a  bad  shape.  It 
has  been  so  done  for  the  purpose  of  making 
political  capital  of  some  sort.  Now,  such 
being  the  case,  the  Legislature  ou^t  to  be 
placed  under  some  restraint  in  this  respect. 
The  people  know  better  than  the  Legislature 
can  know,  what  boundaries  they  need,  and 
I  am  opposed  to  having  the  boundaries  of  any 
county  changed  until  the  people  express  a 
desire  for  it. 

Mr.  BILLINGS.  I  see  nothing  in  this 
section  in  regard  to  changing  county  seats. 
We  cannot  make  four  himdred  square  miles 
contain  any  even  number  of  townships,  and 
the  fact  that  it  will  contain  a  certain  number 
and  a  fraction,  indicates  to  me  that  it  was 
recommended  to  subserve  some  special  piir- 
pose.  There  are  many  townships  in  the 
Territory  which  contain  nine  townships,  and 
the  people  are  perfectly  satisfied.  If  they 
want  twelve  let  them  express  their  wish  to 
that  effect  I  have  no  objection  to  having 
the  people  vote  for  or  against  such  a  proposi- 
tion, but  I  am  opposed  to  saying  in  the  Con- 
stitution, that  they  shall  not  have  less  than 
such  an  amoxmt,  for  cases  may  arise  when 
cotmties  with  nine  townships  will  be  better 
prepared  to  support  the  burdens  of  a  coimty 
oi^anization,  than  other  counties  with  twelve 
or  twenty  townships.  My  objection  is  not 
that  the  people  shall  not  have  the  right  to 
vote,  for  I  would  enlarge  rather  than  restrict 
that  right. 

Mr.  MESSER.  K  the  gentlemen  has  an 
objection  to  the  first  part  of  the  report,  I  hope 
he  will  offer  an  amendment  to  it.  I  know  that 
last  winter  the  Legislature  came  very  near 


260 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Monday,  August  3. 


removing  the  county  seat  of  McLeod  county 
from  Glencoe  to  a  place  upon  a  small  lake, 
when,  in  fact,  there  were  no  inhabitants  with- 
in five  miles  of  that  place.  This  is  an  im- 
portant matter,  and  it  seems  to  me  that  some 
restriction  should  be  thrown  around  the 
power  of  the  Legislature  in  that  respect. 
Something  should  be  done,  also,  in  regard  to 
the  areas  of  counties,  because  I  believe  coun- 
ties have  been  organized  containing  only  one 
township. 

Mr.  BALCOMBE.  I  am  in  favor  of  strik- 
ing out  this  section,  but  not  for  the  reason 
that  I  am  not  in  favor,  substantially,  of  the 
section,  for  I  am.  It  contains  a  good  restric- 
tion, but  there  are  many  good  laws  and  re- 
strictions which  it  would  not  be  wise  for  us 
to  insert  into  the  Constitution.  I  was  in 
favor  of  the  system  of  schools  reported  by 
the  committee  the  other  day,  but,  upon  reflec- 
tion, I  came  to  the  conclusion  that  it  was  not 
best  to  attempt  to  insert  that  system  in  the 
Constitution.  Now  I  am  in  favor  of  this 
section,  and  were  I  in  the  Legislature,  making 
general  laws,  I  should  vote  for  such  a  law ; 
but  I  do  not  think  it  judicious  and  proper  to 
incorporate  everything  which  may  be  good 
into  our  Constitution.  Therefore  I  am  in 
favor  of  striking  out  the  section.  The  county 
seat  question  does  not  properly  come  into 
consideration  on  the  motion  to  strike  out 
this  section,  for  that  subject  matter  is  in  the 
next  section. 

Mr.  WILSON.  Now,  Mr.  President,  I 
hope  this  pretext  of  being  opposed  to  legisla- 
tion in  the  Constitution,  will  not  be  made, 
when  gentlemen  know  that  the  Legislature 
will  go  astray.  The  very  gentleman  who  has 
just  taken  his  scat,  my  colleague,  offered  an 
amendment,  the  other  day,  to  the  third  section 
of  the  report  on  the  Preamble  and  Bill  of 
Rights,  which  amendment  went  into  the  most 
minute  legislation,  and  now  he  comes  up  here 
to-day  and  on  a  subject  which  interests  every 
county  in  the  State,  objects  to  it  because  it 
is  legislating  in  the  Conslitution.  I  hope  gen- 
tlemen will  not  be  driven  from  their  positions 
on  any  such  grounds. 

Mr.  FOSTER.  My  opinion  is,  that  this 
matter  should  be  left  to  the  Legislature. 
This  section,  if  adopted,  would  make  those 
counties  which  have  already  got  their  county 
seats  fixed  to  their  present  liking,  permanent. 


Now  this  is  a  new  country  yet,  and  as  popu- 
lation increases,  it  may  be  desirable  to  make 
many  alterations,  and  I  would  not  so  arrange 
the  matter  in  the  Constitution  that  the  people 
cannot,  without  great  delay,  and  immense 
trouble,  make  such  changes  as  they  think 
proper. 

The  section  provides  that  no  new  county 
shall  be  formed  of  less  area  than  four  hundred 
square  miles. 

Now  that  does  not  contain  an  even  number 
of  townships,  and  to  fix  the  limits  might 
cause  inconvenience  in  constructing  the  coun- 
ties. Here  are  counties  bounded  by  rivers, 
and  irregular  lines,  and  it  may  at  some  time 
be-  convenient  to  lessen  their  size  and  put 
them  into  better  shape.  It  strikes  me  that  it 
is  one  of  those  provisions  which  may  safely 
be  left  to  the  Legislature. 

The  motion  to  strike  out  was  not  agreed  to. 

Mr.  CLEGHORN  offered  the  following  sub- 
stitute for  section  two : 

"  No  organized  county  shall  ever  be  reduced  by 
the  organization  of  new  counties  to  less  than  six- 
teen townships,  as  surveyed  by  the  United  States, 
unless  in  pursuance  of  law,  a  majority  of  electors 
residing  in  each  county  to  be  effected  thereby  shall 
so  decide." 

Mr.  FO  STER.  My  objection  to  that  is  that 
there  are  quite  a  number  of  counties  already 
in  the  Territory  which  have  less  than  sixteen 
townships.  In  lowh  the  rule  has  been  to 
have  not  less  than  twelve  townships,  I  believe, 
in  a  county. 

Mr.  CLEGHORN.  My  amendment  has 
reference  only  to  counties  which  may  be 
formed  hereafter. 

The  amendment  was  agreed  to. 

Mr.  HARDING  moved  the  following  sub- 
stitute for  section  two  as  amended  : 

"No  new  counties  shall  contain  less  than  nine 
townships." 

Mr.  CLEGHORN.  I  rise  to  a  question  of 
order.  I  believe  it  is  not  in  order  to  strike 
out  a  substitute  after  it  has  been  once  adopted. 

The  CHAIRMAN.  The  Chair  decides  that 
it  is  not  in  order. 

Mr.  FOSTER.  The  substitute,  if  adopted, 
would  prohibit  the  formation  of  counties  of 
less  tlmn  nine  townships,  and  would  leave  the 
detail.s  of  the  matter  with  the  Legislature.  I 
am  in  favor  of  that. 

Mr.  HARDING.  Thtre  arc  some  very 
large  counties  in  this  Territory  and  I  contend 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Moxday,  August  8. 


261 


that  if  the  people  prefer]  to  support  smaller 
counties,  where  it  can  be  done  without  injury 
to  existing  county  organizations,  they  should 
have  the  privilege  j>f  so  doing.  In  some  cases 
we  Uve  twenty  and  thirty  miles  fix)m  the 
county  seats  of  the  present  counties,  and  it 
is  attended  with  a  great  deal  of  trouble  and 
expense  to  go  that  distance  to  transact  our 
coimty  business. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  This  limiting  the  coun- 
ties to  a  particular  size  strikes  me  as  a  child- 
ish notion.  I  am  always  in  favor  of  large 
States,  large  counties,  and  large  towns,  if 
possible.  They  possess  more  means,  more 
character  and  more  influence.  But  whenever 
the  people  are  disposed  to  support  a  county 
organization,  I  think  it  is  proper  that  they 
should  not  be  restricted  by  a  constitutional 
enactment.  I  care  not  how  large  a  county 
corporation  the  people  may  wish,  nor  how 
much  Territory  they  may  feel  disposed  to  in- 
clude within  them.  And  I  think  it  is  their 
privilege  to  say  how  much  they  win  have.  In 
this  western  country,  and  especially  in  the 
Territory  of  Minnesota,  it  so  happens  that 
nature  frequently  fixes,  as  it  were,  the  lines 
of  the  counties,  and  it  would  be  a  very  great 
inconvenience  to  have  the  counties  restiicted 
to  a  certain  size.  For  instance,  there  is  a  cer- 
tain tract  of  land  included  within  the  forks  of 
a  river,  which  it  might  be"  more  convenient  to 
have  in  a  separate  and  distinct  organization. 
I  am  opposed  to  all  restriction  as  to  the  num- 
ber of  townships  which  shall  be  included 
within  a  county,  for  I  am  in  favor  of  leaving 
that  to  the  people  to  decide  that  matter  for 
themselves. 

The  substitute  was  then  rejected. 

Mr.  FOLSOM  offered  the  following  as  a 
substitute  for  the  second  section  as  amended : 

"  No  organized  county  shall  be  divided,  or  have 
any  part  stricken  therefrom,  without  submitting 
the  question  to  a  vote  of  the  electors  of  the  county 
or  counties  to  be  directly  affected  or  dismembered, 
nor  unless  a  majority  of  all  the  votes  cast  shall  be 
in  favor  of  the  same." 

The  substitute  was  agreed  to. 

Mr.  FOSTER.  I  voted  for  that  substitute, 
as  approaching  very  nearly  to  what  we 
wanted,  but  I  do  not  think  it  is  exactly  the 
thing  yet.  It  gives  to  the  large  counties  the 
power  of  always  preserving  themselves  from 
alteration.     I  will  oflfer  now,  as  a  substitute 


for  that,  an  amendment  differing  very  little 
from  the  original  section. 

"Xo  new  county  shall  be  formed  or  established 
by  the  Legislature  of  less  area  than  twelve  town- 
ships without  submitting  the  question  to  a  vote  of 
the  electors  of  the  county  or  counties  to  be  directly 
affecJted  or  dismembered,  and  unless  a  majority  of 
all  the  votes  cast  shall  be  in  favor  of  the  same." 

That  will  give  the  Legislature  a  discretion 
in  the  formation  of  counties  above  a  certain 
size,  but  when  it  is  proposed  to  reduce  a  coun- 
ty below  that  size,  it  is  made  a  question  for 
the  people  to  decide  whether  they  will  stand 
the  burden  of  a  small  county.  For  instance 
in  the  case  of  St.  Paul  and  Ramsey  County 
there  is  no  question  but  that  the  policy  of  the 
people  is  to  cut  doMS-n  their  county  to  an  ex- 
ceedingly small  size.  It  would  be  proper  for 
them  to  do  so,  and  it  would  suit  the  other 
counties  around  her.  But  if  you  leave  the 
matter  in  the  form  in  which  it  has  been  placed 
by  the  substitute  of  the  gentleman  from 
Chisago  (Mr.  Folsom),  it  will  be  impossible 
under  the  Constitution,  to  do  so.  Here  is  a 
mass  of  p:ople  whose  interests  are  centered 
within  an  area  of  a  few  miles  around,  and 
they  want  to  be  together  by  themselves.  The 
same  will  be  true  in  reference  to  other  cities, 
and  I  think  we  should  leave  the  door  open, 
so  that  the  people  may  vote  to  do  so  if  they 
see  fit.  I  think  it  will  prove  an  unwholsome 
provision  to  put  this  restraint  of  a  popular  vote 
upon  the  Legislature,  when  counties  are  to  be 
formed  below  a  certain  size.  The  Legislature, 
last  winter  created  a  county  embracing  one 
single  ferm,  as  it  were,  which  had  only  sixty 
votes.  Of  course  I  want  to  see  all  such  op- 
erations stopped.  On  the  other  hand  we 
might  err  by  prohibiting  too  much.  I  think 
a  medium  ground  is  the  best,  and  I  hope  my 
substitute  will  be  adopted. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  ^Yhile  I  am  in  favor  of 
the  vote  of  the  people  being  respected  as  a 
general  thing,  yet  I  am  opposed  to  the  Legis- 
latiire  being  absolutely  bound  by  that  vote. 
The  gentieman  who  has  just  spoken,  alluded 
to  the  County  of  Ramsey,  and  I  will  use  that 
case  as  an  illustration.  A  portion  of  the 
Coimty  of  Ramsey  as  it  now  exists,  is  sepa- 
rated from  another  portion  by  the  interven- 
tion of  two  counties — the  counties  of  Anoka 
and  Isanti — a  portion  of  it  being  a  hundred 
and  fifty  miles  away  from  the  city  of  St.  Paul. 
Now  all  the  provisions  which  have  been  offer- 


262 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Monday,  August  3. 


ed  here,  would  restrain  the  Legislature  from 
making  a  new  county  of  that  portion  which 
lies  one  hundred,  and  fifty  miles  away  from 
St.  Paul,  unless  a  majority  of  the  voters  of 
the  whole  county  should  be  in  favor  of  it. 
Well,  there  being  a  majority  of  the  voters 
here  in  St.  Paul,  and  it  being  desirable  that 
the  people  living  one  hundred  and  fifty  miles 
away  should  help  support  the  county  organ- 
ization ;  they  receiving  no  benefit  of  that  or- 
ganization whatever,  they  of  course  would 
always  vote  against  a  dismemberment  of  the 
County  of  Ramsey.  That  would  be  unjust 
and  unreasonable.  There  may  be  many  in- 
stances where  the  Iicgislature  would  see  that 
it  was  just  and  reasonable  to  dismember  a 
county,  and  form  a  new  county  out  of  two 
or  three  other  counties,  where  a  majority  of 
the  people  of  those  counties  would  be  opposed 
to  it.  Of  course,  they  would  naturally  be 
opposed  to  having  their  county  dismembered, 
as  they  would  thereby  lose  a  portion  of  their 
taxpayers.  While  I  would  have  a  vote  of  the 
people  taken  upon  such  a  measure  to  ascer- 
tain what  their  views  are,  and  that  their  views 
should  be  respected,  yet  L  would  certainly  be 
opposed  to  the  Legislature  being  bound  and 
governed  by  that  vote.  It  would  give  the 
majority  the  absolute  power  of  restraining 
the  minority,  when  the  Legislature  would  see 
that  it  was  eminently  just  and  proper  that  the 
wishes  of  the  minority  should  be  respected. 

I  hope  therefore  there  will  be  some  alter- 
ation of  this  section.  For  my  own  part,  I 
would  leave  it  so  that  no  new  county  should 
be  formed  until  a  vote  of  the  people  in  the 
part  affected  by  it  shall  have  been  taken,  and 
I  would  leave  the  Legislature  a  discretion  af- 
ter that. 

Mr.  WILSON.  I  wish  to  call  the  attention 
of  some  members  to  the  fact  that  this  proposed 
amendment  does  not  come  up  to  what  we 
want.  It  does  not  prevent  changing  the 
boundaries  of  counties.  For  instance,  there 
is  nothing  to  prevent  cutting  off  five  or  six 
miles  from  one  county  and  adding  it  to  anoth. 
er,  thereby  making  the  shape  of  the  counties 
very  bad.  It  does  not  prevent  the  Legisla- 
ture from  resorting  to  all  kinds  of  tricks  of 
that  sort,  just  as  they  have  heretofore.  I 
hope  the  substitute  will  be  voted  down. 

Mr.  ALDRICII.  I  should  like  to  see  an 
amendment  offered,  which  should  leave  the 


matter  to  be  decided  by  a  vote  of  the  people 
of  that  portion  of  the  county  proposed  to  be 
cut  off".  If  the  people  of  any  portion  of  a 
county  desire  to  be  cut  off  from  that  county, 
and  to  be  attached  to  another,  let  them  de- 
cide it. 

Mr.  FOSTER.  If  they,  and  the  Legisla- 
ture, should  agree  to  that,  nobody  should  ex- 
cept to  it. 

Mr.  ALDRICH.  To  leave  the  matter  to  a 
vote  of  the  people  of  that  portion  of  the  coun- 
ty, would  give  the  people  living  in  that  portion 
of  Ramsey  county,  situated  one  hundred  and 
fifty  miles  from  here,  the  privilege  of  being 
set  off  by  themselves,  if  they  desired  it,  in- 
stead of  being  attached  to  Ramsey  county. 

I  move  to  strike  out  the  words  "  the  coun- 
ty" and  all  that  follows  it,  and  insert  in  lieu 
thereof  the  M'ords  "  that  portion  of  the  Terri- 
tory which  it  is  proposed  to  set  off  or  divide." 

Mr.  McKtFNE.  I  hope  the  amendment 
will  not  prevail.  The  effect  of  it  would  be  to 
give  the  right  to  the  minority  to  dictate  to  a 
majority  of  the  county ;  and  in  that  way,  in 
many  instances,  prejudice  the  interests  of  the 
majority.  By  a  few  votes  of  a  township,  vo- 
ting to  be  set  off"  and  attached  to  another 
county,  a  change  of  the  center  of  the  county 
might  be  made,  against  the  best  interests  and 
the  wishes  of  the  county,  thereby  compelling 
an  alteration  of  the  County  Seat.  For  that 
reason,  I  am  very  much  opposed  to  giving  to 
a  minority  the  power  to  say  to  a  majority 
what  they  shall  do. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  It  seems  tome  that  there 
can  be  no  absolute  rule  laid  down  by  this 
Convention  on  this  subject.  The  gentleman 
from  Hennepin  county  (Mr.  Aldricu,)  con- 
tended that  it  would  be  right  and  proper  for 
the  inhabitants  of  the  portions  of  the  several 
counties  to  be  set  off",  to  determine  that  mat- 
ter. Now  I  cannot  agree  with  the  gentleman, 
because  you  scarcely  find  the  inhabitants  of 
three  or  four  counties  that  corner  in  together, 
but  would  be  desirous  of  forming  a  new  coun- 
ty ;  especially  when  town  sites  are  so  much 
in  demand  as  at  the  present  time.  If  the  in- 
habitants of  those  parts  of  the  counties  to  bo 
incorporated  into  a  new  county,  were  allowed 
to  govern  in  that  manner,  thc^  might  do  great 
wrong  to  tlie  inliabitauts  of  other  portions  of 
the  coimties.  We  had  an  illustration  of  that 
during  the  last  two  sessions  of  the  Legislo- 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION   DEBATES— Monday,  August  S. 


263 


I 


ture.  An  attempt  has  been  made  by  the  in- 
habitants of  a  certain  portion  of  Scott  coun- 
ty, and  one  or  two  other  counties,  to  form  a 
new  county ;  and  undoubtedly  the  inhabi- 
tants of  those  portions  of  the  counties  calling 
for  the  new  covmty,  were  unanimously  in  fa- 
vor of  it.  Yet  tlie  inhabitants,  at  large,  of 
the  counties  proposed  to  be  dismembered, 
were  opposed  to  it. 

Now  while  I  would  be  opposed  to  binding 
the  Legislature  by  a  majority  of  aU  the  in- 
habitants of  the  counties  to  be  affected  by  the 
change,  I  would  also  be  opposed  to  the  Legis- 
lature being  bound  to  respect  the  will  of  a 
majority  of  those  who  wish  to  have  a  new 
county  formed.  I  think  the  one  would  ope- 
rate imjustly,  as  weU  as  the  other.  It  seems 
to  me  that  we  cannot  form  any  absolute  rule. 
I  prefer  that  it  should  be  left  with  the  Legis- 
lature, but  that  they  should  first  take  the 
sense  of  the  people,  not  only  in  all  the  coun- 
ties to  be  affected,  but  also  the  sense  of  the 
people  to  be  affected  by  the  particular  locality 
which  is  desired  to  be  formed  into  a  new  coun- 
ty, and  then  leave  it  to  their  discretion. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  It  seems  to  me  that  the 
difficulty  which  will  arise  from  incorporating 
sections  of  this  kind  into  the  Constitution 
must  be  obvious  to  every  one.  As  has  been 
suggested,  there  are  a  great  many  counties  in 
this  Territory  cornered  on  to  each  other,  and 
lying  in  such  a  manner  that  by  taking  a  few 
townships  from  each,  a  new  county  might  be 
formed,  with  a  County  Seat  more  convenient 
to  those  sections  than  the  present  County 
Seats  are.  It  is  well  known  that  at  the  pre- 
sent time  there  is  a  great  squabble  for  tlie 
Coimty  Seats.  Many  sections  of  counties 
consider  it  absolutely  necessary  to  their  exis- 
tance  that  they  should  have  the  County  Seats 
very  near  them.  Under  such  circumstances, 
we  shall  have  a  great  deal  of  confusion  arising 
out  of  a  Constitutional  provision  of  this  kind. 
It  may  meet  the  particular  casa  of  the  gentle- 
man who  offered  it ;  but  while  it  would  answer 
very  well  in  that  instance,  it  would  work  mis- 
chief in  many  others,  it  appears  to  me. 

The  question  was  then  taken,  and  the 
amendment  was  not  agreed  to.   - 

Mr.  WILSON.  I  offer  the  following  sub- 
stitute for  the  substitute : 

"  Skc.  2.  No  new  county  shall  be  formed  or  es- 
tablished by  the  Legislature  of  less  area  than  four 


hundred  square  miles,  unless  a  majority  of  the 
qualified  voters  residing  within  the  limits  of  the 
proposed  county  vote  in  favor  of  the  same ;  nor 
shall  any  organized  county  be  divided,  or  have 
any  part  stricken  therefrom,  without  submitting 
the  question  to  a  vote  of  the  electors  of  the  county 
or  counties  to  be  directly  affected  or  dismembered, 
and  unless  a  majority  of  all  the  votes  cast  shall  be 
in  favor  of  the  same." 

I  wiU  explain  the  difference  between  that 
and  the  original  section ;  and  I  think  this  is 
what  a  majority  of  the  members  of  the  Con- 
vention want.  It  is  the  same  as  the  original 
section,  with  this  change — after  the  word 
"  miles,"  in  the  second  line,  I  have  inserted 
the  words,  "  unless  a  majority  of  the  qualified 
"voters  residing  within  the  limits  of  the  pro- 
"  posed  covmty,  vote  in  favor  of  the  same." 
That  obviates  the  difficulty  suggested  by  ray 
friend  from  Chisago.  Where  a  new  county 
is  to  be  formed,  and  the  territory  from  which 
it  is  to  be  formed  is  in  such  a  shape  as  to 
make  it  necessary  that  the  county  should  be 
composed  of  a  less  area  than  four  himdred 
square  miles,  it  can  be  done  by  a  majority 
vote  of  the  people  residing  within  the  Terri- 
tory of  which  the  county  is  proposed  to  be 
formed.  They  are  the  ones  to  be  affected  by 
it ;  they  are  the  ones  who  have  to  support  the 
county  organization,  and  if  they  say  that  they 
prefer  a  county  of  a  certain  size  and  shape, 
let  them  have  it. 

My  amendment  then  goes  on  to  provide  for 
dismembering  or  changing  the  shape  of  or- 
ganized counties.  It  accomplishes  all  we 
want,  and  nothing  more.  It  leaves  the  mat- 
ter with  the  people  of  the  counties,  where 
they  are  the  only  ones  to  be  affected  by  the 
change. 

The  amendment  was  not  agreed  to. 

Mr.  KING  offered  the  following  substitute : 

"  No  new  county  shall  be  formed  or  established 
by  the  Legislature  of  less  area  than  four  hundred 
square  miles,  nor  shall  any  organized  county  be 
divided,  unless  in  the  judgment  of  the  Legislature 
the  case  shall  imperatively  demand  it ;  but  the 
speculative  wishes  of  the  people  shall  not  make  an 
imperative  case." 

The  substitute  was  rejected. 

The  question  was  then  taken  on  the  substi- 
tute offered  by  Mr.  Foster,  and  it  was  re- 
jected. 

Sec.  3.  No  county  seat  shalf  be  removed  until 
the  point  to  which  it  is  proposed  to  be  removed 
shall  be  designated  by  two-thirds  of  the  Board  of 


264 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Monday,  August  3. 


Supervisors  of  the  county,  and  a  majority  of  the 
electors  of  the  county  voting  thereon  shall  have 
voted  in  favor  of  the  removal  of  the  county  seat 
to  the  proposed  location  in  such  manner  as  shall 
be  prescribed  by  law." 

Mr.  HUDSON.  I  move  to  amend  that 
section  by  striking  out  the  words  "  two-thirds 
"  of  the  Board  of  Supervisors  of  the  county 
"and" 

Mr.  ALDRICH.  I  move  to  amend  the 
amendment  by  striking  out  also  the  words 
"shall  have  voted  in  favor  of  the  removal  of 
the  county  seat  to  the  proposed  location." 

Mr.  STANNARD.  I  move  to  strike  out 
the  whole  section.  I  am  satisfied  that  this 
Convention  should  not  establish  any  rule 
which  shall  apply  to  aU  cases  indiscriminately. 
The  condition  of  our  Territory  will  not  admit 
of  such  a  general  rule. 

The  motion  to  strike  out  was  lost. 

The  amendment  to  the  amendment  was 
lost,  and  the  amendment  itself  rejected. 

Mr,  THOMPSON  moved  the  following  sub- 
stitute for  section  three : 

"  No  county  seat  shall  be  removed  until  a  ma- 
jority of  the  electors  of  the  county  voting  thereon 
shall  have  voted  in  favor  of  the  removal  in  such 
manner  as  shall  be  prescribed  by  law." 

Mr.  STANNARD.  I  am  opposed  to  that 
substitute.  I  think  it  would  place  it  in  the 
power  of  a  few  individuals  in  the  county  to 
get  an  act  passed  to  submit  the  question  to  a 
vote  of  the  people  every  year,  and  thus  sub- 
ject them  to  great  inconvenience  and  expense. 
I  think  when  a  county  seat  has  been  estab- 
lished by  the  consent  of  the  people,  and  pub- 
lic buildings  erected,  they  should  not  be  sub- 
ject to  having  the  question  of  removal  raised 
upon  them  year  after  year. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  am  in  favor  of  the  sub- 
stitute. The  gentleman  from  Chisago  is  op- 
posed to  a  removal  of  the  county  seat  when 
it  has  been  fixed  by  the  people.  Now  it  is 
well  known  that  that  is  not  the  way  in  which 
county  seats  have  been  fixed  in  the  Territory. 
As  a  general  thing,  they  have  been  located 
arbitrarily  by  the  Legislature,  and  without 
regard  to  the  wishes  of  the  people,  merely  to 
accommodate  individual  interest^  in  particu- 
lar localities.  I  see  no  objection  whatever  to 
a  Constitutional  provision  restricting  the  Le- 
gislature in  the  exercise  of  such  a  power  as 
that,  and  leaving  it  to  a  vote  of  the  people  of 
the  whole  county  to  determine.    But  I  am 


opposed  to  requiring  that  two-thirds  of  the 
board  of  supervisors  should  first  designate 
the  location.  I  hope  the  substitute  will  be 
adopted. 

Mr.  BALCOMBE.  I  hope  the  substitute 
will  not  prevail.  I  believe  in  delivering  the 
whole  subject  matter  of  covmty  seats  to  the  peo- 
ple themselves,  without  any  interference  upon 
the  part  of  the  Legislature.  If  we  are  to 
have  any  provision  upon  this  subject  in  the 
Constitution— and  I  am  opposed  to  that,  as  I 
was  opposed  to  the  insertion  of  a  clause  in 
reference  to  the  size  of  the  counties — I  am  in 
favor  of  a  provision  which  shall  put  it  out  of 
the  power  of  the  Legislature  to  interfere  with 
county  seats  at  all ;  in  favor  of  the  section  as 
it  is,  putting  the  matter  into  the  hands  of  the 
supervisors,  and  the  people.  And  I  am  also 
in  favor  of  the  two-third  clause,  so  far  as  the 
supervisors  are  concerned.  A  majority  of  the 
people  should  rule,  but  in  matters  of  .this 
kind  a  vote  of  two-thirds  of  the  servants  of 
the  people  should  be  required. 

Mr.  HA YDEN,  I  am  in  favor  of  the  sub- 
stitute, because  I  am  opposed  to  this  tw'O- 
thirds  clause  in  reference  to  the  supervisors. 
That  would  give  a  small  minority  of  the  su- 
pervisors the  veto  power.  For  instance,  sup- 
pose a  large  majority  of  the  people  were  in 
favor  of  the  removal  of  the  county  seat,  but 
one-third  of  the  board  of  supervisors  should 
be  opposed  to  it;  that  one-third  would  have 
control  of  the  whole  matter,  and  would  de- 
prive the  people  of  their  rights. 

Mr.  BALCOMBE.     If  any  gentleman   is 
opposed  to  the  two-third  clause,  that  need  not 
cause  him  to  vote  for  the  substitute,  for  he 
can  offer  an  amendment,  giving  the  power  to 
a  majority  of  the  board  of  supervisors,  instead 
of  two-thirds.     As  I  understand  it,  it  is  the 
intention  of  the  section,  that  in  the  first 
instance,  the  board  of  supervisors  shall  pro- 
pose the  removal,  and  designate  the  point  to 
which  the  removal  shall  be  made.     The  pro- 
posal must  be  carried  by  a  two-tliird  vote  of 
the  supervisors,  and  the  people  are  not  per- 
mitted to  vote  untQ  two-thirds  of  the  board 
do  vote  and  designate  the  point  to  which  the 
removal  shall  fee  made.     After  that  is  done, 
then  the  people  have  a  veto  power  upon  the 
action  of  the  board.     That  is,  the  people  have 
the  veto  power,  and  not  the  board  of  super- 
visors.   Gentlemen  need  not  vote  for  the  sub- 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Mokdat,  August  3. 


265 


stitute  in  order  to  get  rid  of  the  two-third 
clause.  They  can  vote  down  the  substitute, 
and  then  amend  the  section  so  as  to  require 
the  assent  of  only  a  majority  of  the  board  of 
supervisors. 

The  substitute  will  place  the  matter  in  the 
hands  of  the  Legislature,  and,  as  I  said  be- 
fore, I  am  opposed  to  putting  it  in  the  power 
of  the  Legislature  to  make  any  proposals 
about  the  county  seats.  What  do  they  know 
for  instance,  about  the  necessity  of  removing 
the  county  seat  of  Mower  county?  And 
why  should  they  have  any  voice  in  the  remo- 
val of  it  ?  Why  should  not  the  people  of  the 
respective  counties  have  fuU  power  to  do  so, 
if  they  think  a  removal  proper  ?  The  substi- 
tute places  the  matter  in  the  hands  of  the 
Legislatiire  as  it  always  has  been,  with  the 
addition  that  the  action  of  the  Legislature 
shall  receive  the  sanction  of  a  majority  of  the 
people.  I  want  it  out  of  the  hands  of  the 
Legislature  entirely,  and  in  the  hands  of  the 
people  entirely. 

Mr.  FOSTER.  I  am  in  favor  of  the  sub- 
stitute, but  I  will  direct  my  remarks  particu- 
larly to  the  provisions  of  the  original  section 
in  regard  to  the  board  of  supervisors.  In  the 
first  place,  I  agree  with  the  gentleman  from 
Hennepin  coimty  (Mr.  Haydex)  in  reference 
to  allowing  one-third  of  a  body  of  that  kind 
to  have  a  veto  power  upon  two-thirds  of  the 
voters  of  this  county.  Again,  I  believe  it  is 
a  wrong  course  to  trust  the  matter  in  the 
hands  of  a  board  of  supervisors  atalL  They 
are  elected  to  perform  other  duties,  and  ought 
not  to  have  this  matter  brought  before  them. 
The  Legislature  is  a  better  body  to  go  to, 
upon  a  mere  local  question,  than  the  board  of 
supervisors.  The  very  fact  that  they  are 
removed  from  the  influence  of  local  feelings, 
is  in  favor  of  entrusting  it  to  them. 

Another  thing.  The  section  assumes  that 
there  is  to  be  a  system  of  government  by  a 
board  of  supervisors,  established.  That  is 
taken  for  granted,  while  I  say  that  it  is 
exceedingly  doubtful  whether  we  shall  estab- 
lish that  system,  or  a  different  one.  That 
matter  is  still  undecided.  In  Iowa  the  people 
had  the  liberty  of  selecting  thdr  own  system 
in  the  counties.  Some  counties  that  had 
been  accustomed  to  township  organizations, 
had  the  privilege  of  voting  for  the  adoption  of 
such  a  system,  while  other  covmties  accus- 
34 


tomed  to  a  different  system,  had  the  privilege 
of  voting  for  the  plan  to  which  they  had  been 
accustomed.  But  this  section  assumes  that 
we  are  going  to  adopt  a  certain  system. 

The  gentleman  from  Chisago,  (Mr.  Stax- 
sabd)  objects  to  the  substitute,  because  he 
thinks  that  under  its  provisions,  a  few  persons 
might  come  to  the  Legislature  every  year  and 
log-roll — and  he  is  from  a  log-roUing  county — 
a  bill  through  to  take  a  vote  of  the  people  upon 
this  question.  If  I  understand  him,  he  is  in 
favor  of  our  doing  nothing  at  all  about  it ;  the 
result  of  which  would  be  to  leave  the  matter 
open  to  allow  anybody  to  come  to  the  Leg- 
islatm-e  and  log-roll  a  bill  through,  without 
referring  the  matter  to  the  people  at  all.  Now 
we  need  something  to  prohibit  that  thing.  The 
people  should  have  the  power  to  change 
the  county  seats  when  they  deem  that  the  first 
location  was  not  a  proper  one.  When  our 
counties  shall  become  more  populous,  it  may 
be  found  more  convenient  to  have  the  county 
seats  changed,  and  I  want  the  Legislature 
vested  with  power  to  pass  a  law  giving  to  the 
people  the  right  to  make  such  changes  when 
they  see  fit. 

Mr.  BALCOMBE.  In  order  to  favor  the 
adoption  of  the  substitute,  the  gentleman  has 
Jjrought  in  an  issue  not  properly  under  dis- 
cussion at  this  time — and  that  is  this  matter  of 
county  or  township  organization.  I  am  de, 
cidedly  in  fevor  of  the  supervisor  township 
system,  and  decidedly  opposed  to  putting  the 
whole  county  business  into  the  hands  of  three 
or  more  coimty  commissioners.  I  would  let 
each  and  every  portion  of  the  county  have  a 
voice  in  controlling  matters  pertaining  to  the 
county.  It  is  a  matter  of  very  great  interest 
to  the  people.  The  gentleman's  remarks  in 
reference  to  leaving  this  matter  imder  the 
control  of  the  Legislature  seems  to  me  to 
prove  that  we  should  take  it  out  of  their 
hands  entirely.  And  I  say  to  gentlemen 
here,  who  have  not  bgen  members  of  our 
Legislature,  that  this  coming  to  the  Le^sla- 
tture  to  get  county  seats  removed,  is  a  partic- 
ular humbug  and  a  sham,  and  I  say  it  is  an 
interference  on  the  part  of  the  Legislature 
which  should  not  be  tolerated.  I  have  my- 
self been  guilty  of  favoring  the  establishment 
of  certain  county  seats.  I  acknowledge  it. 
I  did  it  simply  because  it  seemed  to  be  the 
practice  of  our  Legislature  to  do  so,  and  I . 


266 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Monday,  August  3. 


was  called  on  to  act  upon  that  practice  by  a 
portion  of  my  constituents ;  and  I  acted  under 
what  I  supposed  to  be  the  direction  of  a  ma- 
jority of  my  constituents,  in  those  particular 
instances.  But  at  the  same  time  such  things 
are  generally  done  under  a  log-rolling  system, 
and  gentlemen  vote  upon  such  a  question  who 
know  no  more  about  the  propriety  of  it, 
than  if  the  county  were  in  some  European 
colony.  Local  measures  are  made  matters  of 
bargain  and  trade.  Votes  are  obtained  for  a 
particular  measure  by  a  promise  of  votes  for 
another  particular  measure  relating  to  another 
part  of  the  Territory.  One  representative 
knows  what  the  people  desire  in  his  particular 
locality,  and  if  he  can  get  such  a  measure 
passed  as  his  people  desire,  he  will  vote  for 
anything  and  everything  else  to  accomplish 
that  end.  That  is  especially  the  case  with  new 
members — and  the  Legislature  is  generally 
made  up  of  a  majority  of  new  members. 
Older  members  make  them  believe  that  they 
cannot  get  their  little  local  measures  through 
unless  they  vote  for  certain  other  measm-es. 

Now  I  say,  if  we  are  going  to  put  this 
matter  into  the  Constitution  at  all,  we  should 
insert  a  provision  taking  the  matter  out  of  the 
hands  of  the  Legislature  entirely,  and  giving 
it  to  the  people,  and  to  the  servants  of  the , 
people  in  their  respective  coimties. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  I  would  not  be  under- 
stood to  say  that  I  am  in  favor  of  putting  this 
matter  wholly  into  the  hands  of  the  Legisla- 
ture, but  I  do  say  that  we  should  have  some- 
thing like  permanency  in  our  affairs.  I  do 
object  to  leaving  this  thing  open,  so  that  every 
session  of  the  Legislature  shall  be  taken  up 
with  considering  this  matter  of  the  location  of 
county  seats.  I  am  in  favor  of  leaving  this 
matter  with  the  people,  but  I  am  opposed  to 
so  leaving  it  that  a  few  dissatisfied  persons  in 
a  county,  or  a  few  having  a  town-site  they 
want  to  improve,  shall  have  it  in  their  power 
to  go  the  Legislature  every  year,  and  log-roll 
a  bill  through  submitting  the  question  to  a 
vote  of  the  people  of  the  county.  I  am  op- 
posed to  subjecting  the  people  of  a  coimty  to 
any  such  hardships.  It  would  require  them 
to  turn  out  every  year  to  vote  upon  a  question 
which  they  want  settled.  Suppose  a  county 
seat  [is  located,  and  the  erection  of  county 
buildings  commenced,  what  would  be  the 
result  if  this  amendment  is  adopted  ?    Would 


it  not  stop  the  erection  of  those  buildings  ? 
Would  the  people  feel  like  making  permanent 
public  improvements  ?  Certainly  not  ?  I  am 
willing,  in  all  cases,  that  a  majority  of  the 
people  should  be  this  judge,  buf  I  am  opposed 
to  forcing  them  to  vote  upon  a  question  of 
change  every  year,  at  the  instance  of  a  few 
persons. 

Mr.  HAYDEN.  I  was  somewhat  amused 
at  the  remarks  of  my  good  friend  (Mr.  Bal- 
combe)  when  he  first  spoke.  He  said  that  if 
the  substitute  was  adopted,  it  would  put  the 
matter  entirely  into  the  hands  of  the  Legis- 
lature, with  some  shght  exceptions,  and  that 
was  that  it  would  put  it  into  the  hands  of  the 
people.  Now  that  is  quite  an  exception,  for 
in  fact  it  would  put  the  matter  entirely  into 
the  hands  of  the  people  for  their  decision. 
He  speaks  of  Mower  county,  the  affairs  of 
which  the  Legislature  would  not  naturally 
know  anything  about.  But  it  is  natural  that 
the  people  of  Mower  county  should  know 
whether  they  desire  a  change  of  their  county 
seat  or  not,  and  when  the  question  is  sub- 
mitted to  a  vote  of  the  people,  I  ask  whether 
they  ought  not  to  have  the  power  to  decide  it  ? 
I  am  desirous  that  the  matter  should  be  left  to 
the  people,  and  that  they  should  have  the 
entire  control  of  it. 

Mr.  KEMP.  I  feel  some  interest  in  this 
matter  and  desire  to  introduce  an  amendment 
to  meet  my  views  of  the  manner  in  which  this 
matter  should  be  disposed  of.  Two  years 
ago,  by  a  legislative  act,  the  county  seat  of 
Wabashaw  County  was  fixed  at  Wabashaw  ; 
and  that  is  still  the  county  seat,  against  the 
wishes  of  a  large  majority  of  the  people. 
There  have  been  no  public  improvements 
made  there  from  the  fact  that  no  title  has  yet 
been  acquired  to  those  lands,  and  it  is  possi- 
ble that  no  title  ever  will  be  acquired.  The 
title  may  be  in  litigation  ten  or  twenty  years. 
Under  those  circumstances  it  will  be  impos- 
sible to  continue  the  county  seat  there,  and 
to  put  up  proper  public  buildings.  I  feel  con- 
fident that  the  people  would  remove  the 
county  seat  immediately  upon  the  ratification 
of  a  Constitution  containing  a  provision  sim- 
ilar to  the  one  proposed.  It  does  not  however 
fuUy  meet  my  views,  and  therefore  I  propose  to 
amend  by  striking  out  all  after  the  word 
*'  designated"  in  the  s«cond  line,  and  insert 
the  following : 


MINNESOTA  CONTENTION  DEBATES— Mokdat,  August  3. 


267 


. "  By  a  majority  of  the  qualiiied  electors  of  said 
county,  and  a  majority  of  the  votes  of  such  qual- 
ified electors  of  such  county  being  in  favor  of  such 
removal,  shall  have  the  effect  of  removing  said 
county  seat  indapendent  of  any  legislative  action." 
Mr.  BALCOMBE.   That  amendment  brings 
up  the  question  whether  the  Legislature  or 
the  County  Commissioners  or  board  of  Su- 
pervisors— whichever  it  may  be — shall  pro- 
vide the  time  and  manner  of  holding  the  elec- 
tions and  submitting  the  question  to  the  peo- 
ple.    I  am  decidedly  in  favor  of  having  the 
County  Commissioners  or  Supervisors  pro- 
vide as  to  the  time,  manner,  and  place  of 
voting  upon  this  subject  by  the  people,  instead 
of  going  to  the  Legislature,  for  their  action 
upon  the  subject     They  are  better  qualified, 
under  all  the  circumstances,  to  know  the 
proper  time  and  places,  and  what  the  proper 
manner  is  in  which  the  people   should  be 
called  upon  to  vote  upon  this  matter.     I  ask 
gentlemen  which  would  be  the  best  body  to 
determine  those  matters  ?    Should  it  not  be 
determined  by  the  immediate  servants  of  the 
people  ?    I  say  most  certainly,  it  should. 

Mr,  KING.  Who  believes  that  we  want 
any  better  provision  than  the  article  as  it 
now  stands  ?  I  do  not,  and  consequently  I 
shall  vote  against  the  substitute  and  the 
•  amendment.  In  the  first  place  it  gives  to  the 
Supervisors  the  right  to  designate  the  place 
of  the  proposed  removal,  and  then  it  it  gives 
a  majority  of  the  people  the  right  to  fix  the 
county  seat  at  the  place  designated  by  the 
Supervisors.  A  fairer  proposition  we  do  not 
want. 

Mr,  BALCOMBE.     If  the  committee  vote 
down  the  amendment,  I  will  offer  an  amend- 
ment to  give  the  power  to  designate  the  place 
to  a  majority  of  the  Supervisors,  as  also  the 
manner  of  holding  the  elections. 
The  amendment  was  rejected. 
The  substitute  was  also  rejected, 
Mr.  BALCOMBE.     I  now  move  to  amend 
the  section  so  that  it  shall  read  as  follows : 

"  Skc,  2.  No  county  seat  shall  be  removed  until 
the  point  to  which  it  is  proposed  be  removed  shall 
be  designated  by  a  majority  of  the  board  of  Su- 
pervisors of  the  county,  and  a  majority  of  the 
electors  of  the  county  voting  thereon,  shall  have 
voted  in  favor  of  the  removal  of  the  county  seat 
to  the  proposed  location,  in  such  manner  as  shall  be 
prescribed  by  the  board  of  Supervisors." 

Mr.  MANTOR.    I  hope  the  amendment 


will  not  be  adopted,  I  am  unwilling  to  place 
in  the  hands  of  the  Supervisors,  or  any  other 
dass  of  men,  the  right  to  designate  any  sin^e 
point  in  the  county,  for  a  county  seat  I  pre- 
fer to  leave  the  whole  matter  to  the  Legisla- 
ture, 

Mr,  COLBURN.     I  move  to  amend  the 
amendment  by  inserting  after  the  word  "  Su- 
pervisors"   wherever  it  occurs,  the  words 
"  or  Commissioners."    My  object  is  to  leave 
the  coimties  themselves  to  decide  whether 
they  will  be  governed  by  a  board  of  Super- 
visors, or  a  board  of  Commissioners.     I  am 
not  myself  in  favor  of  the  Supervisor  system, 
and  especially  am  I  unvrilling  to  place  such  a 
system  upon  any  county  without  their  con- 
sent,    I  think  it  may  be  so  arranged  as  to 
leave  each  coimty  to  say  what  system  they 
will  adopt,     K  that  matter,  however,  is  to  be 
decided  by  us,  my  impression  is  that  we 
should  adopt  a  system  of  county  government 
by  Commissioners,  rather  than  by  Supervi- 
sors.   TMs  report  provides  that  each  organ- 
ized township  shall  have  one  Supervisor,  and^ 
those  Supervisors  are  to  constitute  the  county 
board.    Now  in  the  county  in  which  I  reside 
there  are  twenty-four    townships,   and  the 
board  would  consist  of  twenty-four  Super- 
yisors — a  complete  legislative  body.     It  would 
not  be  possible  for  them  to  transact  business 
except  vmder  the  rules  of  a  legislative  body. 
I  do  not  believe  the  voters  of  that  county  de- 
sire any  such  system,     I  am  satisfied  that  they 
will  be  opposed  to  it,  and  for  that  reason  I 
am  opposed  to  the  amendment.     I  want  it  to 
be  put  in  such  a  shape,  that  we  can  provide 
hereafter  that  the  counties  may  have  their 
choice  of  a  system  of  county  government 

Mr.  KING.  It  is  much  better  to  put  tiie 
disposition  of  the  coimty  seats  into  the  hands 
of  a  board  of  twenty-foiur,  rather  than  three, 
because  this  has  become  such  a  speculative 
age,  that  you  can  buy  a  man  as  cheap  as  a 
mule ;  and  if  you  have  a  board  of  only  three, 
you  have  only  three  mules  to  buy,  which  is 
more  easy  than  to  buy  twenty-four.  The  ex- 
penses of  a  county  is  a  thing  the  people  are 
going  to  look  at,  and  the  voting  upon  the  lo- 
cation of  a  coimty  seat  every  year  is  going  to 
cost  more  than  you  calculate  upon.  How  much 
is  it  going  to  cost  to  build  a  court  house  and 
jail  ?  Let  them  be  built,  and  then  buy  up  three 
mules  to  say  that  the  county  seat  shall  be 


268 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Monday,  August  3. 


removed,  and  by  that  time  the  people  will 
have  their  eyes  open.  The  section  cannot  be 
bettered,  if  you  legislate  upon  it  until  next 
Saturday. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  The  gentleman  must 
have  misunderstood  the  purport  of  my  amend- 
ment. It  is  not  that  thi'ee  county  commis- 
sioners shall  have  the  power  to  remove  the 
county  seat,  but  that  they  shall  designate  the 
place  to  which  the  removal  shall  be  made,  and 
the  manner  and  the  place  of  voting  upon  that 
question.  I  am  decidedly  opposed  to  the  sec- 
tion reported  by  the  committee  because  it 
enables  one-third  of  the  supervisors  to  con- 
trol the  action  of  a  majority  of  the  people. 
Or  rather,  its  operation  will  be  to  prevent  a 
majority  of  the  people,  wishing  it,  to  have  any 
action  upon  the  subject,  whatever.  I  am  in 
favor  of  the  amendment  of  the  gentleman 
from  Winona,  if  the  section  is  to  remain  sub- 
stantially as  it  is.  At  all  times  it  might  prob- 
ably be  anticipated  that  one-third  out  of  a 
board  of  twenty-four  supervisors,  would  favor 
the  location  of  the  county  seat  where  it  is 
already  established,  while  a  majority  of  the 
people  may  desire  to  remove  it,  and  yet  would 
never  have  an  opportunity,  under  that  system, 
of  expressing  that  desire.  The  section  ope- 
rates as  a  veto  power,  in  advance,  on  the 
people. 

Mr.  KEMP.  I  will  read,  for  information, 
an  amendment  I  propose  to  offer,  when  it  is 
in  order,  which  I  think  will  accomplish  that 
desire.  It  is  to  strike  out  all  after  the  word 
"designated"  and  insert — 

"By  a  majority  of  the  board  of  supervisors  of 
the  county ;  and  a  majority  of  the  voters  of  said 
county,  voting  in  favor  of  said  removal,  shall  have 
the  effect  of  removing  the  county  seat  as  pre- 
scribed by  the  board  of  supervisors." 

Under  such  a  provision  a  majority  vote  of 
the  board  of  supervisors  will  place  the  ques- 
tion before  the  people,  so  that  their  wishes 
can  be  known  on  the  subject. 

Mr.  BALCOMBB.  That  is  the  same  as 
my  amendment. 

Mr.  KEMP.    Not  exajctly. 

The  question  was  then  taken  on  Mr.  CoL- 
bubn's  amendment,  and  it  was  not  agreed  to. 

The  amendment  ofiFered  by  Mr.  Balcombe 
was  then  agreed  to. 

Mr.  CLEGHORN.  I  move  to  amend  the 
section  as  it  now  standi,  by  inserting  after 


the  word  "  thereon,"  the  words  "at  the  next 
general  election."  The  object  of  the  amend- 
ment is  to  prevent  the  board  of  supervisors 
from  putting  the  county  to  the  expense  of  a 
special  election  on  the  question  of  removing 
the  county  seat. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  If  it  is  absolutely  ne- 
cessary to  remove  the  county  seat,  the  sooner 
it  is  done  the  better.  The  commissioners  or 
supervisors  will  have  the  interest  of  the 
county  at  heart,  and  they  will  certainly  desig- 
nate that  time,  imless  the  people  demand  an 
election  at  an  earlier  period. 

Mr.  FOSTER.  I  think  we  can  safely  trust 
the  supervisors  to  fix  the  time. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  I  offer  the  following 
substitute  for  the  whole  section : 

"  Counties  already  existing,  and  those  which 
may  hereafter  be  created,  are  municipal  corpora- 
tions, established  for  the  purpose  of  the  better 
carrying  out  those  great  objects  for  which  all  gov- 
ernments, great  or  small,  powerful  or  weak,  were 
instituted,  to-wit :  For  the  better  protection  of  the 
people  in  theii-  lives,  their  libertiei,  and  their  pro- 
perty ;  and  not  for  the  purpose  of  enriching  or  im- 
poverishing the  inhabitants  of  any  particular 
locality — and  in  the  establishment  or  removal  of 
county  seats  the  convenience  and  wishes  of  the 
people  of  said  county  should  be  consulted,  and 
not  the  pecuniary  gain  or  loss  of  any  particular 
locality.  And  in  all  cases  when  the  inhabitants  of 
any  part  or  portion  of  any  county  desire  to  be 
disconnected  therefrom,  and  added  to  any  other 
county,  the  same  shall  not  be  done  without  first 
obtaining  the  consent  of  a  majority  of  the  votes  of 
both  counties  affected  thereby.  And  the  Legisla- 
ture shall  pass  such  general  or  special  laws,  from 
time  to  time  as  will  best  carry  into  effect  the  fore- 
going principles." 

I  wish  simply  to  say,  Mr.  Chairman,  that 
we  have  adopted,  I  believe,  a  certain  clause 
in  our  Bill  of  Rights,  which  requires  us  to  go 
back  from  time  to  time  to  fundamental  prin- 
ciples, and  it  is  a  kind  of  song  sung  here,  to 
a  certain  extent,  that  in  framing  onr  Consti- 
tution we  should  lay  down  certain  fundamen- 
tal principles  only,  and  not  undertake  to  en- 
ter into  the  minutia  of  legislation.  And  for 
the  purpose  of  carrying  out  that  idea  in  regard 
to  coimty  seats,  their  removal,  and  the  dis- 
memberment of  coimties,  I  have  offered  the 
amendment. 

The  amendment  was  rejected. 

Sec.  4.  The  Legislature  may  organize  any  city 
into  a  separate  county  when  it  has  attained  a  pop- 
ulation of  twenty  thousand  inhabitants,  without 


MINNESOTA  CONATiNTION  DEBATES— Monday,  AracsT  3. 


269 


reference  to  geographical  extent,  when  a  majority 
of  the  electors  of  a  county  in  which  such  city  may 
be  situated,  voting  thereon  shall  be  in  favor  of  a 
separate  organization.  Cities  shall  have  such 
representation  in  the  board  of  supervisors  of  the 
cotmties  in  which  they  are  situated  as  the  Legiala- 
ttu*e  may  direct." 

Mr.  COLBUEN.  I  move  to  amend  section 
four  by  striking  out  all  after  the  word  "  or- 
ganization." 

Mr.  FOLSOM.  I  move  to  strike  out  the 
whole  section. 

Mr.  COLBUEN.  I  accept  of  that  amend- 
ment in  the  place  of  mine. 

Mr.  FOSTER.  I  am  in  favor  of  that 
amendment.  The  gentleman  who  moved  the 
first  amendment  wanted  to  stop  at  the  word 
"  organization,"  and  strike  out  the  words 
"  cities  shaU  have  such  representation  in  the 
"board  of  supervisors  of  the  counties  in  which 
"  they  are  situated,  as  the  Legislature  may 
"  direct."  Some  provision  of  that  kind  is  prob- 
ably necessary.  A  large  population  may  be 
gathered  into  one  city,  and  yet  they  might 
really  constitute  but  one  voting  precinct,  and 
consequently  would  not  have  a  proportional 
representation  in  the  board  of  supervisors. 

Mr.  FOLSOM.  I  do  not  see  any  necessity 
of  having  such  a  provision  in  the  Constitution 
at  all.  If  we  do  not  insert  such  a  clause,  the 
matter  will  be  in  the  hands  of  the  Legis- 
lature. 

Mr.  WILSON.  I  hope  we  shall  have  some 
such  provision  somewhere. 

Mr.  FOSTER.  I  would  call  the  gentleman's 
attention  to  section  five.  We  can  insert  that 
provision  there. 

Mr.  WILSON.  Section  five  prescribes 
that  a  board  of  supervisors,  consisting  of  one 
firom  each  organized  township,  shall  be  estab- 
lished in  each  cotmty  with  such  powers  as 
shall  be  prescribed  by  law.  I  think  it  is  un- 
fair to  say  that  a  township  having  twenty 
thousand  inhabitants  shall  have  a  like  repre- 
sentation as  a  township  having  a  hundred 
thousand  inhabitants. 

Mr.  ALDRICH.  In  Illinois  the  cities  are 
divided  into  townships,  each  of  which  elects 
a  supervisor.  Chicago  is  divided  into  eight 
or  ten  townships.  That  might  be  done  here. 
The  object  is  to  allow  the  cities  to  have  a 
representation  in  the  board  in  proportion  to 
their  population. 

The  section  was  stricken  out. 


"Sec.  5.  A  board  of  supervisors,  consisting  of 
one  from  each  organized  township,  shall  be  estab- 
lished in  each  county  with  such  power  as  shall  be 
prescribed  by  law." 

Mr.  NORTH.  I  move  to  amend  section 
five  by  adding  thereto  the  words  "  cities  shall 
"have  such  representation  in  the  board  of 
"supervisors  of  the  counties  in  which  they 
"are  situated  as  the  Legislattire  shall  direct" 

Mr.  STANNARD.  I  would  suggest  to  the 
gentleman  that  he  should  include  both  cities 
and  incorporated  towns. 

Mr.  NORTH.  It  is  necessary  to  have 
some  provision  of  this  kind  because  one 
supervisor  from  a  large  city,  would  not  give  it 
a  just  representation.  It  has  been  custom- 
ary in  New  York  to  have  one  supervisor  firom 
each  ward  of  a  city. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  But  there  may  be 
places  having  a  large  population,  which  would 
not  wish  a  city  charter,  preferring  to  remain 
imder  their  town  charter.  I  want  the  amend- 
ment to  include  such  places. 

Mr.  NORTH.  I  accept  that  as  a  modifi- 
cation of  my  amendment.  The  section  thus 
amended  will  cover  all  the  groimd  that  is 
desired.  I  hope  the  three  following  sections 
will  be  stricken  out.  They  define  the  powers 
of  the  board  of  supervisors — ^a  matter  which 
should  be  left  to  the  Legislattu^. 

Mr.  FOSTER.  In  looking  over  the  report 
I  cannot  find  anything  which  provides  how 
the  first  precincts  are  to  be  made ;  by  whom, 
and  how  the  first  board  of  supervisors  are  to 
be  chosen. 

Mr.  BALCOMBE.  The  schedule  will  pro- 
vide for  that.  I  would  inquire  of  the  gentle- 
man fix>m  Rice  cotmty,  (Mr.  Nobth)  what 
effect  his  amendment  wotdd  have  in  one 
respect.  The  question  arises  whether  the 
Legislature  at  any  time  when  it  sees  fit  here- 
after, can  divide  up  the  cities  into  a  certain 
number  of  organized  townships,  and  give 
each  of  them  a  representation  on  the  board 
of  supervisors,  or  whether  it  is  to  be  done  by 
a  general  law  ?  For  instance,  a  general  law 
which  may  leave  that  matter  entirely  with  the 
board  of  supervisors  of  the  cotmties  in  which 
they  are  situated?  If  the  effect  of  the 
amendment  is  to  leave  the  matter  imcertain, 
or  to  leave  the  Legislatture  firee  at  any  time  to 
organize  new  townships  within  the  city  limits, 
I  shotild  be  opposed  to  the  amendment.  I 
think  the  Legislature  should  not  have  the 


270 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Mondat,  August  3. 


power  to  interfere  with  city  organizations  to 
that  extent. 

Mr.  NORTH.  I  do  not  see  how  we  can 
very  well  avoid  entrusting  that  matter  some- 
what with  the  Legislature.  The  city  charters 
themselves  generally  provide  for  the  number 
of  wards  in  each  city,  and  it  has  been  cus- 
tomary in  some  States  to  allow  each  ward  in 
a  city  to  have  a  supervisor.  Cities  are  incor- 
porated with  a  larger  or  smaller  number  of 
wards,  not  always  in  proportion  to  population, 
and  to  lay  down  a  general  rule  that  each 
ward  should  have  a  supervisor,  would  allow 
the  cities  too  many  in  some  instances,  and  too 
few  in  others.  It  is  a  matter  of  legislation. 
If  we  lay  down  a  general  rule,  it  will  surely 
operate  vmequally,  and  if  we  leave  it  with  the 
Legislature,  it  cannot  operate  more  than  un- 
equally. 

Mr.  ALDRICH.  These  township  organi- 
zations are  something  new  to  me.  But  I 
suppose  the  gentleman  from  Rice  county, 
coming  from  New  York,  knows  how  the 
system  works.  In  IlUnois  the  system  is  dif- 
ferent. Chicago,  for  instance,  is  entitled  to  a 
certain  representation  in  the  board,  but  I  do 
not  know  whether  she  is  divided  into  wards 
or  not.     She  is  divided  into  townships. 

Mr.  McKUNE.  In  Illinois  each  town  and 
city  has  at  least  one  supervisor,  and  after 
they  reach  a  population  of  eight  hundred  they 
are  entitled  to  one  additional  supervisor  for 
each  additional  eight  hundred  inhabitants. 

Mr.  ALDRICH.  I  was  about  to  state  that 
fact.  Some  townships  have  half-a-dozen  su- 
pervisors in  order  to  make  them  equal  with 
other  towns  in  the  county.  The  counties  are 
authorized  to  adopt  a  township  organization 
by  a  majority  vote  of  the  people,'and  I  should 
think  that  about  one  half  of  the  coun- 
ties of  the  State  have  adopted  such  an 
organization.  The  others  have  not,  and 
are  still  governed  by  a  board  of  county  com- 
missioners. The  matter  is  left  to  them  to 
them  to  decide,  and  I  think  that  would  be  the 
best  course  to  adopt  here. 

It  seems  to  me  that  it  would  be  wrong  to 
make  a  township  organization  obligatory  upon 
the  people,  as  this  section  does.     It  reads — 

"A  board  of  supervisors,  consisting  of  one  from 
each  organized  township,  shall  bo  established  in 
each  county," 

— Thus  making  it  binding  upon  them.     I 


should  prefer  a  general  law,  by  the  Legisla- 
ture, giving  to  the  people  of  each  'county  the 
privilege  of  adopting  township  organizations 
or  not,  as  they  see  fit. 

Mr.  BALCOMBE.  I  am  decidedly  opposed 
to  the  establishment  of  a  mixed  system,  as 
suggested  by  the  gentleman  from  Hennepin 
county.  I  want  either  the  one  or  the  other, 
out  and  out.  Either  the  precinct  and  county 
commissioner  system,  or  the  supervisor  sys- 
tem.    I  think  uniformity  is  desirable. 

Again,  I  would  suggest  an  amendment  to 
the  phraseology  of  the  section  so  that  it  shal 
read — 

— "Shall  be  established  with  such  powers  aa 
shall  be  prescribed  by  a  general  law." 

I  do  not  know  as  I  can  express  my  idea 
about  this  matter  fully.  I  wish  to  have  this 
matter  of  representation  of  cities  in  the  board 
of  supervisors  prescribed  by  a  general  law, 
and  not  subject  to  the  fitful  action  of  each 
Legislature  that  assembles.  If  the  language 
of  the  amendment  proposed  conveys  the  idea 
that  the  representation  of  cities  shall  depend 
upon  a  general  law,  which  shall  work  the 
same  in  reference  to  one  city  as  another, 
I  am  in  favor  of  the  amendment.  But 
if  it  can  be  construed  in  such  a  manner  as  to 
allow  the  Legislature  one  year  to  give  to  St. 
Paul,  for  instance,  six  supervisors,  and  the 
next  year,  through  lobby  influence,  double  it 
up  to  twelve,  when  perhaps  the  inhabitants 
have  not  increased  in  numbers,  I  am  opposed 
to  it, 

I  throw  out  these  suggestions  to  see  whether 
it  is  thought  by  the  mover,  and  others  sus- 
taining this  amendment,  that  the  language  he 
employs  will  apply  to  all  cities  equally,  and 
that  a  general  law  must  be  framed  by  which 
all  shall  be  governed ;  or  whether  the  matter 
is  subject  to  special  legislation, 

Mr.  NORTH.  I  said  before  that  I  was 
entirely  willing  to  leave  the  matter  to  special 
legislation,  and  I  think  tlie  clause  I  propose 
leaves  it  with  the  Legislature  to  act  either  by 
general  or  special  laws. 

Mr.  BALCOMBE.  Well  I  am  opposed  to 
leaving  in  in  that  way. 

The  amendment  offered  by  Mr.  North 
was  then  adopted. 

Mr.  OOLBURN,  I  now  move  to  strike  out 
section  five,  as  amended.  It  does  seem  to 
mo  that  the  remarks  of  the  gentleman  from 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Monday,  August  3. 


271 


Hennepin  county  (Mr.  Aldbich,)  are  very 
just,  in  reference  to  leaving  it  to  the  people  of 
each  coiuity  to  determine  their  kind  of  county 
government;  and  the  gentleman  from  TTinona 
(Mr.  Balcombe,)  gave  no  reason  why  he  did  not 
approve  of  that  He  simply  stated  that  he 
was  opposed  to  any  mixed  system.  It  is  a 
fact  that  in  some  of  the  counties,  a  majority 
of  the  voters  are  New  England  people,  who 
are  unaccustomed  to  this  system  of  township 
supervisorship ;  and  since  they  came  here,  they 
have  been  tmder  a  system  of  commissioners, 
as  they  were  in  New  England.  I  am  satisfied 
that  this  revolution  in  the  system  of  county 
government,  which  this  section  proposes  to 
make,  would  be  distasteful  to  the  people  of 
those  coimties.  It  may  be,  that  in  other 
counties,  a  majority  of  the  people  may  be 
from  the  "Western  States,  where  the  system 
of  supervisorship  has  been  generally  adopted. 
In  those  counties,  they  would  imdoubtedly  be 
in  favor  of  that  system.  I  do  think  the  pro- 
posed system  would  be  repugnant  to  the  class 
of  counties  I  first  mentioned.  In  the  course 
of  time  they  might  choose  that  system;  but 
at  the  present  time  they  would  not,  and  I 
think  it  seriously  objectionable  to  compel  them 
to  adopt  it.  It  seems  to  me  that  a  section 
might  be  introduced  here  providing  that  the 
counties  might  select  between  the  two  sys- 
tems. 

And  I  believe  further,  that  in  every  county, 
the  whole  people  of  that  county  should  have 
an  equal  voice  in  the  election  of  the  men  who 
are  to  govern  the  county.  Under  this  super- 
visorship system,  they  might  unite  several 
townships  into  one.  In  one  section  of  the 
county  perhaps  five  or  six  townships  may  be 
united  and  they  have  a  population  of  not 
more  than  five  hundred  persons ;  in  another 
section,  two  towns  may  be  vmited,  and  they 
have  a  population  of  one  thousand ;  and  yet, 
if  this  system  is  adopted,  a  small  township  of 
five  hundred  inhabitants  has  as  much  power, 
as  one  with  one  thousand  inhabitants  or  more. 
Now  these  one  thousand  people  pay  more 
taxes  than  the  five  hundred,  and  yet  the  su- 
pervisor of  the  small  township  has  the  same 
voice  in  expending  the  fund,  as  the  one  who 
represents  a  larger  amount  of  tax- payers.  It 
seems  to  me  impossible  to  regulate  that  sys- 
tem so  as  to  make  it  equal  and  just  to  all  the 
peoplf  of  the  county.    If  the  supervisor  sys- 


tem is  to  be  adopted,  I  think  they  should  all 
be  voted  for  upon  a  general  ticket,  and  by  the 
whole  county.  But  the  more  serious  difficulty 
of  deciding  upon  and  arranging  that  system 
now,  is,  that  the  counties  are  not  prepared 
for  such  a  change.  I  prefer  to  have  the  whole 
matter  stricken  out,  rather  than  do  that.  I 
would  permit  the  present  commissioner  sys- 
tem to  prevail  imtil  it  is  changed  by  the  Leg. 
islatxire. 

Mr.  FOLSOM.  I  move  to  atnend  by  stri- 
king out  aU  after  the  third  section,  and  insert- 
ing the  following : 

"  Sec.  3.  The  Legislature  shall,  at  its  first  ses- 
sion after  the  adoption  of  this  Constitution,  pro- 
vide for  the  establishing  of  county  and  township 
organizations." 

Mr.  LOWE.  I  hope  that  amendment  will 
prevail.  I  have  listened  to  this  discussion 
with  considerable  interest,  and  have  been  en- 
deavoring to  make  up  my  mind  upon  this 
matter ;  but  it  seems  to  me  that  we  are  get-* 
ting  into  deep  water,  upon  a  difficult  question. 
The  trouble  is  that  the  subject  matter  pro- 
perly belongs  to  a  Legislative  Assembly,  rath- 
er than  to  a  Constitutional  Convention.  I 
feel  myself  incompetent  to  decide  upon  the 
various  points  proposed,  and  I  do  not  think  I 
should  be  called  upon  to  decide  here.  The 
substitute  oflFered  by  my  colleague  is  all  I 
ought  to  be  called  to  vote  upon,  and  I  hope  I 
shall  not  be  compelled  to  vote  upon  these  va- 
rious mooted  points — mooted  even  in  this 
Convention.  The  suggestions  oflFered  by  the 
gentleman  from  Hennepin  county  seemed  to 
me  valuable  and  weighty,  and  they  ought  to  be 
considered.  This  system  should  be  matured, 
if  we  are  going  to  adopt  it. 

Mr.  FOLSOM.  My  motion  was  to  strike 
out  aU  after  section  three. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  As  that  meets  my  views, 
I  withdraw  my  amendment. 

Mr.  FOLSOM.  If  the  motion  is  agreed  to 
the  effect  will  be  to  throw  us  back  upon  our 
present  system  of  government,  until  the  Leg- 
islature shall  provide  a  system  of  future  gov- 
ernment. I  think  our  election  for  officers  this 
fall  will  have  to  be  held  under  the  present 
Territorial  laws.  In  the  first  place,  we  do 
not  know  as  the  Constitution  wiU  be  ratified 
by  the  people ;  and  if  it  is  not,  we  shall  stand 
just  as  we  do  now.  It  leaves  our  present 
system  of  government  to  stand  imtil  the  Leg- 
islature provides  for  a  change. 


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MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Monday,  Auqitst  3. 


Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  am  in  favor  of  the  mo- 
tion of  the  gentleman  from  Chisago  (Mr.  Fol- 
soM,)  to  a  certain  extent,  but  I  am  not  to  the 
full  extent  to  which  it  goes.  I  am  opposed 
to  a  system  of  County  Commissioners,  and 
equally  opposed  to  the  system  of  a  Board  of 
Supervisors.  The  gentleman  from  FUlmore 
county  (Mr.  Colburn,)  stated  that  the  County 
Commissioner  system  was  a  New  England 
system.  I  do  not  so  understand  it.  In  New 
Hampshire,  which  is  the  native  State  of  that 
gentleman,  as  well  as  myself,  the  system  has 
been  a  township  system,  wherein  there  were 
elected  officers  called  select-men,  and  the  whole 
affairs  of  the  town  were  conducted  by  those  se- 
lect-men. There  were  no  county  officers  that 
had  anything  to  do  with  the  local  affairs  of  the 
several  towns ;  and  formerly  whatever  coimty 
affairs  there  were  to  be  attended  to — such  as 
paying  the  expenses  of  the  courts  and  the  ex- 
penses of  the  coimty  poor— were  performed 
by  what  were  called  side-judges — two  coimty 
judges  to  be  elected  in  each  county  to  sit  by 
the  side  of  the  presiding  judge.  They  had  no 
duties  to  perform  there,  and  they  attended  to 
such  county  affairs  as  were  strictly  such. 
Now  that  was  a  system  I  was  in  favor  of;  and 
I  would  have  in  this  State,  township  organiza- 
tions, and  have  the  local  affairs  of  the  town- 
ships conducted  solely  by  the  townsliips 
themselves.  I  would  have  officers  elected  in 
each  township — call  them  commissioners,  se- 
lect-men, or  any  other  name — to  perform  the 
business  pertaining  to  each  township.  I 
would  have  the  roads  and  highway  of  each 
township,  constructed  by  itself.  I  would 
have  the  poor  which  belong  to  each  township, 
supported  by  that  township.  Then  it  would 
be  necessary,  of  course,  to  have  some  officers 
to  transact  the  business  of  the  county — ^busi- 
ness which  properly  belongs  to  the  whole 
county,  such  as  providing  for  the  payment  of 
the  expenses  of  holding  courts,  the  expenses 
of  county  officers,  and  other  matters  of  gen- 
eral interest  throughout  the  county. 

Now  while  I  am  in  favor  of  leaving  that 
matter  with  the  Legislature,  I  am  not  in  favor 
of  striking  out  section  nine  of  this  report, 
which  provides  for  county  officers.  Section 
nine  is  as  follows : 

"  Skc.  9.  In  each  organized  county  there  shall  be 
a  Sheriff,  a  County  Clerk,  a  County  Treasurer,  a 
Register  of  Deeds,  a  Prosecuting  Attorney,  a  Su- 


perintendent of  Common  Schools,  a  County  Sur- 
veyor, and  a  Coroner,  chosen  by  the  electors  there- 
of once  in  two  years,  and  as  often  as  vacancies 
shall  happen,  whose  powers  and  duties  shall  be 
prescribed  by  law.  The  Board  of  Supervisors  in 
any  county  may  unite  the  oflBces  of  County  Clerk 
and  Register  of  Deeds  in  one  office  or  disconnect 
the  same." 

Those  are  offices  that  will  be  required, 
whatever  subdivisions  may  be  made  of  each 
county ;  and  if  it  is  the  effect  of  this  amend- 
ment to  exclude  the  idea  of  specifying  what 
county  officers  there  shall  be,  I  shall  be  op- 
posed to  it. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  was  probably  mistaken 
in  regard  to  the  New  England  system  pre- 
vailing in  New  Hampshire.  I  understand  the 
gentleman  is  in  favor  of  the  New  Hampshire 
system!  Now  I  ask  him  if  he  is  in  favor  of 
electing  two  dmmny  judges  to  sit  by  the  side 
of  the  presiding  judge  ? 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  am  not ;  but  I  am  in 
favor  of  some  county  board  to  attend  to  af- 
fairs common  to  the  whole  county. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  am  in  favor  of  that 
system  of  township  organization  which  ex- 
ists in  Massachusetts,  and  in  most  of  the 
New  England  States.  There  are  some  vari- 
ations as  to  county  government,  but  in  no 
case  have  they  a  board  of  Supervisors  con- 
stituted as  this  report  proposes  to  constitute 
them. 

Mr.  POLSOM.  I  do  not  see  any  necessity 
for  retaining  section  nine  in  the  report.  Our 
present  Territorial  laws  will  be  in  force  until 
this  Constitution  is  adopted ;  and  in  the  sched- 
ule we  shall  probably  insert  a  clause  providing 
that  all  laws  of  the  Territory  of  Minnesota 
not  repugnant  to  this  Constitution  shall  re- 
main in  force  until  repealed.  Then  the  Legis- 
lature can  provide  for  these  county  officers, 
and  I  see  no  necessity  for  inserting  it  here. 

Mr.  HAYDEN.  I  am  opposed  to  striking 
out  the  ninth  section.  I  heartily  agree  with 
my  friend  from  Hennepin,  (Mr.  Secombe)  in 
almost  all  he  has  said.  I  am  a  true  born 
Yankee,  and  have  not  lost  all  the  Yankee  yet. 
I  believe  there  are  many  things  in  the  town- 
ship organizations  of  New  England,  prefera- 
ble to  any  other  system  I  have  any  knowledge 
of.  I  think  it  important  that  there  should  be 
a  clause  in  the  Constitution  prescribing  what 
county  officers  should  be  elected.  And  fur- 
ther than  that,  I  would  have,  instead  of  a 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Monday,  August  3. 


273 


board  of  Supervisors,'a  board  of  county  Com- 
missioners, whose  duty  it  should  be  to  attend 
to  such  business  as  the  side  judges  performed 
in  New  Hampshire.  It  would  save  a  great 
deal  of  expense  in  many  ways,  to  have  such 
a  board  of  Commissioners. 

The  question  was  taken  on  Mr.  Folsoji's 
amendmsnt,  and  it  was  agreed  to;  and  then 
on  motion  of  Mr.  Thompson,  the  committee 
rose  and  reported  the  article  as  amended  to 
the  Convention,  with  a  recommendation  that 
the  amendments  be  concmred  in. 

On  motion  of  Mr.  CLEGHORN,  (at  twelve 
o'clock)  the  Convention  took  a  recess  until 
half  past  two  o'clock. 

AFTERNOON  SESSION. 

The  Convention  resmned  its  session  M  half 
past  two  o'clock. 

COUNTY  AND  TOWNSHIP  ORGANIZATIONS. 

The  Convention  resumed  the  consideration 
of  the  report  upon  the  county  and  township 
organizations,  the  pending  question  being  on 
concurring  in  the  amendments  recommended 
by  the  committee  of  the  "Whole. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  would  enquire  if  it 
would  be  in  order  at  this  time  to  offer  a  sub- 
stitute for  the  whole  report  ? 

The  PRESIDENT.  In  the  opinion  of  the 
Chair  it  would  be. 

Mr.  COLBURX.  I  then  offer  the  follow- 
ing substitute  for  the  whole  report : 

"  The  Legislature,  at  the  first  session,  shall  pro- 
vide by  law  for  county  and  township  organizations; 
and  every  county  or  township  when  organized 
shall  be  a  body  corporate,  and  all  suits  for  or 
against  such  county  or  township,  shall  be  in  the 
name  thereof." 

My  object  in  offering  this  substitute  is  to 
get  rid  of  this  system  of  legislation  on  the 
subject,  in  the  Constitution.  A  question,  al- 
so, has  arisen  in  this  debate  upon  which  a 
great  diversity  of  opinion  prevails  among  the 
members  of  this  Convention,  and  in  regard 
to  which  there  will  be  a  great  diversity  of 
views  anlong  the  people.  Now  I  prefer,  for 
that  reason,  if  for  no  other,  that  it  should  be 
left  to  the  Legislature,  rather  than  settle  it  in 
this  Constitution. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  I  do  not  object  to  the 
substitute  to  the  whole  report,  as  far  as  it 
goes.  But  there  are  things  contained  in  this 
report  which  are  not  legislative  at  all,  and  I 
do  hope  to  see  a  part  of  this  report,  at  least, 
35 


adopted.  This  matter  of  establishing  new 
counties  is  a  source  of  the  deepest  corruption 
in  this  Territory.  The  same  has  been  true, 
to  a  greater  or  less  extent,  in  all  the  States, 
and  the  older  States  are  constantly  amending 
their  Constitutions  in  that  particular.  The 
object  of  those  amendments  is  to  put  an  end 
to  this  interminable  manufacturing  of  new 
counties.  Every  man  in  the  Territory  who 
builds  up  a  new  town  expects  that  there  is  to 
be  a  new  coimty  to  surround  it ;  and  the  past 
history  "of  our  Legislature  will  bear  one  out 
in  saying,  that  it  has  been  literally  infested 
every  session  by  a  set  of  men  crying  out  for 
new  coimties.  Every  general  bill  for  the  gen- 
eral welfare  of  the  Territory  has  had,  hitched 
to  it,  from  half  a  dozen  to  a  dozen  bills  for 
new  coimties.  Members'  constituents  im- 
portime  them  for  new  counties,  and  represen- 
tatives are  tied  up  to  a  log-rolling  system  which 
they  cannot  break  away  from  without  offend- 
ing their  constituents.  Every  man  knows  that 
that  lobby  has  been  crowded  by  men  affected 
with  a  perfect  itching  for  new  counties,  and 
the  cry  continually  is  "  give"  "  give."  The 
new  States,  and  the  older  Sta^s,  have  come  to 
the  conclusion  that  there  is  no  greater  som"ce 
of  corruption  in  legislation  than  this  forming 
of  new  counties.  Now  it  is  not  legislation 
to  stop  that  matter  here  in  the  Constitu- 
tion, and  declare  that  it  shall  not  be  done 
without  the  consent  of  the  people.  As  our 
laws  are  at  present,  the  Legislature  can  manu- 
facture new  counties  at  pleasure.  Take 
this  Territory  now,  as  a  general  thing,  it  is 
cut  up  into  little  pea  patches,  which  have  no 
influence  one  way  or  the  other.  I  hope  the 
provisions  of  this  section  will  not  all  be  strick- 
en out.  I  have  an  amendment  which  I  wish 
to  offer  as  an  additional  section  to  the  pro- 
posed substitute,  and  I  hope  it  will  be  accep- 
ted by  the  mover.     It  is  as  follows : 

"  No  county  shall  be  divided  by  a  line  cutting 
off  more  than  one  tenth  of  the  population,  either 
to  form  a  new  county  or  otherwise,  without  the  ex- 
press consent  of  such  county,  by  a  vote  of  the 
electors  thereof;  nor  shall  any  new  county  be  es- 
tabUshed  containing  less  than  four  hundred  square 
miles." 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  do  not  accept  it  as  a 
part  of  my  substitute,  not  so  much  that  I  am 
opposed  to  it,  as  that  I  fear  if  it  is  attached 
to  the  substitute  it  will  kill  the  substitute 
itself     For  that  reason  I  shall  have  to  vote 


2r4 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Monday,  August  3. 


against  it,  as  an  amendment  to  the  substitute, 
but  after  the  substitnte  is  adopted,  I  will  vote 
for  the  amendment. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  The  reason  why  I 
urge  this  amendment  is,  that  the  amendment 
of  the  gentlemen  from  Chisago  (Mr.  Folsom) 
which  was  adopted  in  committee  of  the 
Whole,  is  not  sufficiently  definite.  There  are 
cases  where  the  representatives  of  two  coun- 
ties in  the  Legislature  might  agree  that  a 
certain  portion  of  one  county  should  be  cut 
off  and  attached  to  another  county  for  the 
mutual  convenience  of  each.  But  my  amend- 
ment provides  that  not  more  than  one-tenth 
of  the  population  of  any  county  shall  be  cut 
off  without  the  assent  of  the  county.  It  may 
be  convenient  in  some  cases,  where  a  small 
strip  is  desired  to  be  taken  from  one  county 
and  attached  to  another,  to  allow  the  Legisla- 
ture to  do  it,  if  the  representatives  of  the 
respective  counties  agree  to  it,  but  that  right 
should  not  be  extended  to  any  considerable 
portion  of  the  county.  It  is  no  more  than 
fair  that  the  people  should  decide  such  mat- 
ters for  themselves.  It  allows  a  sufficient 
margin  to  the  Legislature  for  straightening 
lines,  when  the  inhabitants  petition  for  it.  In 
such  cases  there  is  no  necessity  for  a  vote  of 
the  people,  because  in  many  cases  the  land 
might  not  be  worth  the  expenses  of  an  elec- 
tion. The  plan  I  have  proposed  has  been 
adopted  in  some  of  the  older  States. 

Again,  as  to  the  matter  of  limiting  the  size 
of  our  counties.  It  is  the  general  idea,  that 
counties  should  not  be  formed  below  a  certain 
size.  Twelve  townships  would  be  four  hun- 
dred and  thirty-two  square  miles.  I  think 
that  is  sufficiently  small.  This  interminable 
making  of  small  counties  by  the  Legislature, 
is  injurious  to  the  people,  and  the  Legislature 
should  not  be  allowed  to  do  it.  We  all  know 
that  a  county  was  organized  last  winter, 
which  was  not  large  enough  for  a  good  sized 
ferm.  Do  you  suppose  that  that  bill  passed 
by  any  fair  means?  Not  at  all.  Shall 
our  State  be  cut  up  into  small  portions,  and 
the  people  subjected  to  pay  immense  taxes 
for  the  gratification  of  a  few  individuals  ?  It 
is  usual  now,  in  framing  Constitutions,  to  put 
some  restrictions  upon  the  Legislature  in 
making  new  counties.  Such  a  restriction 
would  be  a  blessing  to  the  Legiskture.  It 
would  prevent  their  being  dragged  around 


and  button-holed  by  a  set  of  men,  importun- 
ing them  to  make  new  counties  for  their 
benefit.  And  at  home,  too,  it  would  remove 
that  bitterness  of  feeling  which  would  not 
otherwise  exist.  The  constant  agitation  of 
the  removal  of  county  seats  has  a  bad  effect 
upon  our  county  organizations.  I  know  that 
in  my  own  county — the  smallest  one  in  the 
Territory  except  one — men  hving  in  one 
corner  of  the  county  have  actually  refused  to 
pay  their  taxes,  simply  out  of  this  personal 
local  feeling.  Now  this  local  feeling  would 
never  arise,  if  the  Constitution  should  throw 
a  guard  around  this  thing.  I  hope  we  shall 
so  act  here  as  to  prevent  a  recurrence  of  those 
unfortunate  and  disgraceful  affairs  which  have 
disgraced,  not  only  the  Legislature  of  the 
Territory  of  Minnesota,  but  of  other  States 
and  Territories.  Remove  this  subject  as  far 
as  possible  from  the  Legislature,  and  do  not 
allow  our  legislators  to  be  driven  into  a 
system  of  log-rolling  to  carry  through  bills* 
for  the  organization  of  counties,  which  have 
no  merit  in  them  whatever.  Whenever  it  is 
necessary  to  cut  up  a  county,  the  people  wiU 
say  so. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  have  no  objection  to 
the  amendment,  if  offered  by  itself.  The 
object  of  my  substitute  was  simply  to  get 
rid  of  those  provisions  upon  which  there  was 
so  much  discussion,  and  such  diversity  of 
opinion  this  forenoon.  That  was  as  to  the 
mode  of  government  and  control  of  counties. 
If  the  gentleman  will  withdraw  his  amend- 
ment, and  allow  the  vote  to  be  first  taken 
upon  my  substitute,  and  then  offer  his 
substitute,  I  will  vote  for  it. 

Mr,  WILSON.  I  hope  the  gentleman  will 
look  carefully  at  this  substitute.  It  will  leave 
us  at  sea,  just  as  we  were  before,  at  the 
mercy  of  town  site  makers.  We  know  how 
they  have  done  heretofore,  and  I  hope  we 
shall  legislate  for  the  future  with  the  past  in 
our  minds. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  The  gentleman  will  bear 
in  mind  that  an  amendment  is  to  be  offered 
to  fix  that  thing. 

Mr.  WILSON.  The  amendment  of  the 
gentleman  from  iScott  county  (Mr.  Gai,- 
BBAiTii)  docs  not  come  up  to  near  what  I 
want. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  I  wiU  withhold  my 
amendment  for  the  present. 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Mokday,  August  3. 


275 


Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  hope  the  substitute 
will  prevail,  but  only  for  the  purpose  of  get- 
ting a  chance  to  offer  an  additional  section 
which  will,  perhaps,  meet  gentlemen's  wishes. 

The  substitute  was  then  adopted. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  I  now  offer  the  fol- 
lowing as  an  additional  section : 

"No  county  shall  be  divided  by  a  line  cutting 
ofi  more  than  one-tenth  of  the  population,  either 
to  form  a  new  county  or  otherwise,  without  the 
express  consent  of  such  county,  by  a  rote  of  the 
electors  thereof;  nor  shall  any  new  county  be 
established  containing  less  than  four  hundred 
square  miles." 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  am  opposed  to  the  sec- 
tion proposed  to  be  added  by  the  gentleman 
from  Scott  county.  I  am  satisfied  thai;  we 
cannot  fix  any  arbitrary  rule  upon  this  sub- 
ject, that  will  be  just  and  equitable.  The 
gentleman  from  Scott  county  referred  to  the 
provisions  of  other  States.  The  condition  of 
things  in  those  States  is  vastly  difiFerent  from 
what  it  is  in  the  Territory  of  Minnesota  at  the 
present  time.  It  is  well  known  that  the  leg- 
islation heretofore  had  in  our  Territory  upon 
this  subject,  has  been  legislation  for  specula- 
tors, and  for  particular  town  sites ;  that  coun- 
ties ^>ave  been  formed,  not  with  reference  to 
what  will  be  for  the  general  good  hereafter, 
but  with  reference  to  what  was  the  general  or 
particular  good  at  the  time  those  coimties 
were  formed.  "We  have  been  launched  upon 
a  sea  of  legislation,  which  has  already  left  our 
counties  in  a  very  poor  shape.  I  am  satisfied 
that  the  principle  the  gentleman  contends  for, 
although  it  would  answer  very  well  to  suit, 
perhaps,  the  majority  of  voters  in  the  county 
the  gentleman  comes  from,  will,  according  to 
his  own  admission,  merely  prevent  a  minority 
of  the  people  in  his  or  any  other  coimty  from 
any  longer  grumbling  or  trying  to  help  them- 
selves. A  portion  of  the  citizens  in  the  county 
of  Scott,  which  I  believe  in  size  is  next  to  the 
smallest  in  the  whole  Territory,  together  with 
portions  of  the  citizens  of  other  counties  cor- 
nering into  that,  have  been  besetting  the  Leg- 
islature, for  two  years,  to  form  anew  coimty ; 
and  in  the  course  of  proceedings,  various 
propositions  have  been  made.  It  has  been 
proposed  on  the  one  side  that  the  county  of 
Jefferson — the  county  desired  to  be  formed — 
should  be  established,  subject  to  a  vote  to  be 
taken  by  the  votes  of  the  county  of  Scott  and 
the  other  counties  from  which  the  proposed 


county  of  Jefferson  was  to  be  carved  out ; 
and  if  a  majority  of  the  voters  in  all  those 
counties  shovdd  be  in  favor  of  it,  the  new 
county  of  Jefferson  should  be  erected.  On 
the  other  hand,  it  has  been  proposed  by  the 
friends  of  Jefferson  county,  that  a  vote  should 
be  taken  of  that  portion  of  those  counties 
which  it  was  desired  should  be  erected  into 
the  new  county  of  Jefferson  ;  and  if  a  major- 
ity of  those  people  were  in  favor  of  the  estab- 
lishment of  that  new  county,  it  should  be 
erected.  Now  neither  of  those  plans  is  just 
or  equitable.  A  majority  of  the  inhabitants 
of  Scott  and  the  other  counties  are  opposed 
to  cutting  off  any  portion  of  tiieir  counties, 
and  they  would  vote  against  it.  Consequent- 
ly, under  the  rule  of  action  proposed  by  the 
gentleman,  the  new  county  could  not  be  es- 
tablished. On  the  other  hand,  the  voters  in 
the  proposed  county  of  Jefferson  would  vote 
by  a  large  majority  that  the  county  should  be 
established.  If  that  rule  prevails,  the  major- 
ity of  the  voters  of  all  the  counties  might  lose 
their  property  against  their  wUl.  And  yet,  I 
can  conceive  of  cases  where  it  would  be  ne- 
cessary, in  all  justness,  fiiirness,  and  equity, 
that  the  county  of  Jefferson,  or  some  other 
county  in  like  circmnstances,  should  be  erect- 
ed in  opposition  even  to  the  will  of  a  majority 
of  the  counties  from  which  it  is  proposed  to 
be  taken. 

I  alluded,  this  morning,  to  the  present  con-.. 
dition  of  the  county  of  Ramsey,  a  portion  of 
which  is  separated  from  it  entirely  by  two  in- 
tervening counties.  Nobody  would  say  but 
what  it  was  just  and  eqmtable  that  that  p<)r- 
tion  situated  a  hundred  and  fifty  miles  away 
from  the  other  portion,  should  be  erected  into 
a  county  by  itself.  But  if  we  give  to  the 
whole  people  of  the  county  the  power  to  re- 
fuse to  make  it  such,  there  is  no  safety  to  the 
rights  of  the  minority  of  the  county  living 
that  distance  away. 

Therefore,  I  am  of  opinion  that  it  is  impos- 
sible to  adopt  a  rule  that  in  all  cases  will  be 
an  equitable  rule ;  and,  consequently,  I  am 
opposed  to  the  amendment,  and  I  am  opposed 
to  inserting  anything  into  the  Constitution 
upon  that  subject. 

The  question  was  then  taken,  and  the  addi- 
tional section  was  not  agreed  to. 

Mr.  SECOMBE  submitted  the  following,  as 
an  additional  section : 


276 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Monday,  August  8. 


"No  County  Seat  shall  be  established  or  re- 
moved, except  by  the  vote  of  a  majority  of  the 
legal  voters  of  the  county,  which  vote  shall  be 
taken  in  such  manner  as  shall  be  prescribed  by  a 
general  law." 

The  amendment  was  agreed  to. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  I  now  offer  as  an  ad- 
ditional section,  the  amendment  which  was 
adopted  in  Committee  of  the  Whole  this  morn- 
ing, viz : 

"  No  organized  county  shall  be  divided  or  have 
any  part  stricken  therefrom  without  submitting 
the  question  to  a  vote  of  the  electors  of  the  county 
or  counties  to  be  directly  affected  or  dismembered 
— and  unless  a  majority  of  all  the  votes  cast  shall 
be  in  favor  of  the  same." 

Mr.  VAUGHN.  I  offer  the  foUowing  as  a 
substitute  for  the  additional  section : 

"No  new  county  shall  be  formed  or  established 
by  the  Legislature  of  a  less  area  than  four  hundred 
square  miles  without  submitting  the  question  to  a 
vote  of  the  electors  of  the  county  or  counties  to  be 
affected  thereby.  Nor  shall  any  organized  county 
be  dismembered  unless  a  majority  of  the  legal 
voters  of  such  dismembered  portion  shall  approve 
the  same." 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  Establish  such  a  rule 
as  that  and  you  put  it  in  the  power  of  every 
heartless  speculator,  seeking  to  build  up  a  pa- 
per town  site,  to  come  into  the  Halls  of  the 
Legislature,  for  the  purpose  of  getting  a  new 
county.  Say  that  the  dismembered  territory 
shall  vote,  and  any  paper  town  can  vote,  and 
decide  that  it  shall  be  a  new  county,  and  be 
the  county  seat.  It  is  ridiculous  upon  the 
face  of  it — simply  ridiculous.  Now  a  county 
is  a  municipal  organization,  and  the  people  liv- 
ing in  it  have  a  perfect  control  over  it,  and  it 
would  be  just  as  proper  to  say  that  the  people 
living  in  South  Carolina  may  go  out  of  the 
Union  upon  voting  to  do  so,  as  to  say  that  the 
people  living  within  a  particular  portion  of  a 
county,  may  go  out  of  that  county  at  their 
own  will  and  pleasure,  by  voting  to  do  so 
against  the  will  of  the  whole  county.  A 
county  is  created  for  the  benefit  of  the  whole 
people  of  that  county,  and  without  the  assent 
of  a  majority  of  the  whola  people,  a  county 
never  should  be  dismembered  and  cut  up  into 
atoms  to  suit  the  whims  of  a  few  men,  and  to 
put  money  into  this  and  that  man's  pocket. 

Sir,  the  history  of  the  past  shows  that  it  is 
time  that  we  should  put  such  a  provision  as 
I  have  proposed  into  our  Constitution,  and 
stop  this  log-rolling  all  over  the  country.   This 


legislation  about  counties  has  been  a  nuisance 
to  the  whole  Territory,-  and  many  States  have 
been  driven,  from  stern  necessity,  to  put  pro- 
visions into  their  Constitutions  prohibiting 
this  thing  of  coming  to  the  Legislature  to  get 
new  counties  organized,  for  the  purpose  of 
enabling  this  or  that  man  to  sell  their  town 
sites.  Have  not  we  had  experience  enough 
in  this  matter  already  ?  I  do  not  refer  to  my 
own  covmty  particularly.  Troubles  exist 
there  yet.  But  do  not  troubles  exist  in  other 
counties  ?  Is  there  not  a  perfect  mania  for 
making  new  counties  through  the  whole  Ter- 
ritory ?  As  long  as  the  power  is  in  the  Leg- 
islature, men  will  beset  them  for  the  estab- 
lishment of  new  counties.  It  wiU  be  in  the 
future  as  it  has  been  in  the  past,  and  you  can 
hardly  pass  in  the  Legislature  a  bill  for  any 
general  object,  but  there  will  be  tacked  to  it 
bills  establishing  new  counties,  or  establishing 
county  seats  at  places  never  dreamed  or  heard 
of  before.  It  has  been  done,  and  I  have  seen 
it  done.  Now  is  it  not  well  to  put  a  stop  to 
■such  things,  while  we  hare  it  in  our  power  ? 

But  there  should  be  a  limit  to  the  cutting 
up  of  counties.  Small  counties  must  have  as 
good  public  buildings,  the  same  oflBces  and 
the  same  machinery  that  large  counties  have, 
and  it  costs  as  ^much  to  maintain  a  county 
organization.  As  a  financial  question,  then, 
it  is  no  more  than  proper  that  this  Constitu- 
tional Convention  should  take  the  precedents 
established  by  the  older  States  which  have 
taken  this  matter  into  consideration,  and  put 
some  restraint  upon  the  Legislature  in  regard 
to  the  manufacture  of  new  counties.  The 
Legislatvu-e  of  this  Territory,  following  in  the 
footsteps  of  the  Legislatures  of  some  of  the 
States,  has  become  a  machine  for  the  manu- 
facture of  new  counties — a  patent  right  ma- 
chine. Get  up  a  bill  in  the  Legislature  on  a 
matter  which  interests  the  whole  people,  and 
the  first  you  know  it  is  covered  all  over  with 
bills  for  the  establishment  of  new  counties, 
and  you  cannot  pass  it  without  passing  at 
the  same  time  those  incumbrances. 

Wtiy  then  will  we  stand  here  and  vote  down 
every  proposition  to  guard  the  rights  of  the 
people  in  this  matter.  A  majority  of  the 
people  all  over  the  Territory  are  opposed  to 
cutting  up  and  dismembering  their  counties. 
Put  it  to  a  vote  to-day,  and  I  say  that  r.inety- 
nine  out  of  a  hundred  of  the  people  would 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION   DEBATES— Mokdat,  August  3. 


27'r 


vote  in  favor  of  such  a  restriction,  and  only 
the  interest  of  those  paper  town  sites  would 
be  opposed  to  it.  Wherever  there  is  a  neces- 
sity for  erecting  a  new  county  out  of  a  large 
one,  the  people  of  the  county  will  approve  of 
it.  But  if  a  majority  of  the  people,  whose 
property  it  is,  do  not  see  fit  to  part  with  it, 
who  will  say  that  they  shall.  A  majority 
should  rule  in  this  matter  as  in  all  others.  If 
any  gentleman  has  any  proposition  which  will 
more  effectually  remedy  this  wrong,  I  will 
vote  for  it. 

Mr.  NORTH.  I  would  Uke  to  make  a 
proposition,  and  that  is  to  leave  the  whole 
matter  to  the  Legislature,  and  I  am  more  sat- 
isfied now  that  that  is  the  proper  covu-se  than 
I  was  before  the  matter  was  discussed.  I 
wondered  for  some  time  how  I  should  explain 
the  enthusiasm  of  the  gentlemen  from  Scott 
county,  but  I  happened  to  remember  Jeflfer- 
son  county,  and  all  my  trouble  vanished. 
"VV  e  ought  to  remember  that  we  are  not  ma- 
king a  Constitution  for  Scott  county  alone. 
JeflFerson  county  is  not  the  only  coimty  which 
should  be  guarded  against  in  this  State,  and 
the  difficulty  is  to  adopt  a  rule  that  shall 
work  well  in  all  cases.  While  the  gentleman 
has  a  case  which  touches  his  interests  and 
feelings,  making  him  so  earnest  upon  this  sub- 
ject, we  have,  or  had,  in  our  coimty,  a  case 
which  operated  in  the  other  direction,  and  if 
we  had  had  a  Constitution  in  our  way  con- 
taining a  provision  of  this  kind,  we  should 
never  have  been  relieved  vmtil  the  Constitu- 
tion was  changed.  It  would  have  subjected 
us  to  great  inconvenience — and  I  do  not  con- 
sider a  town  of  six  hundred  inhabitants  ex- 
actly a  town  on  paper.  There  are  necessities 
which  arise  for  changing  coimty  lines,  which 
accrue  fi:om  injustice  done  in  carving  out 
counties,  and  it  becomes  the  interest  of  all  to 
have  the  change  made.  There  was  a  mutual 
wish^^of  some  living  along  the  line  of  Dako- 
tah  and  Goodhue,  to  have  a  change  of  lines. 
But  let  Goodhue  vote  upon  a  proposition  to 
give  up  a  part  of  her  Territory,  and  she  would 
vote  against  it  every  time ;  and  so  would  Da- 
kotah  county.  And  there  never  can  be  a 
change  of  lines  under  such  a  provision  as  is 
proposed  by  the  gentleman  fi-om  Scott  county. 
No  general  rule  can  be  established  which  will 
guard  perfectly  every  man's  rights,  or  every 
countiy's  rights,  and  I  know  of  no  safer  way 


than  to  leave  it  to  the  sound  discretion  of  the 
Legislature.  That  is  the  course  pursued  in 
the  great  State  of  New  York,  and  in  many 
other  eastern  States,  and  no  evil  results  from 
it.  Those  matters  have  settled  down  into  a 
quiet  condition,  and  when  a  necessity  arises 
for  a  new  county,  they  make  it,  subserving 
convenience,  and  doing  no  evil.  I  know  of 
no  better  method  for  us  to  pursue.  But  if 
we  are  to  establish  a  rule,  do  not  let  us  adopt 
one  which  wiU  leave  the  people  of  one  county 
to  control  the  people  of  both  counties  in  a 
matter  which  the  other  county  should  have  an 
equal  voice  in  settling. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  Some  gentlemen  ap- 
pear very  sensitive  about  matters.  I  am  in 
favor  of  this  proposition  from  principle,  with- 
out any  reference  whatever  to  any  particular 
locality.  Scott  county  can  take  care  of  her- 
self. That  is  all  I  have  to  say  about  that.  I 
am  interested  in  that  matter,  and  I  have  an- 
nounced my  opinion  so  often,  that  every  gen- 
tleman understands  it. 

I  beUeve  that  a  provision  of  this  kind  is 
for  the  general  good.  Take  the  Constitutions 
of  different  States  which  have  recently  been 
established,  and  gentlemen  will  see  that  they 
put  limits  upon  the  power  of  the  Legislature 
in  this  matter.  Pennsylvania  for  a  time  had 
no  provision  in  her  Constitution  upon  this 
subject,  and  the  matter  got  to  such  a  pass 
that  no  bill  could  pass  the  Legislature,  be- 
cause some  new  county  scheme  defeated  it. 
Hence  the  people  petitioned  for  a  change,  and 
last  winter  they  amended  their  Constitution 
by  just  such  a  provision  as  I  have  offered.  I 
look  upon  it  as  a  sound  rule  of  policy,  that 
this  matter  should  have  guards  thrown  around 
it  in  some  way.  Leave  it  to  the  sound  dis- 
cretion of  the  Legislature!  You  have  had 
experience  of  that  course  already,  and  you 
know  how  it  works,  and  the  experience  of 
the  State  has  not  been  different  from  ours. 
The  Legislature  are  not  left  to  their  sound 
discretion.  They  have  their  public  bills 
which  they  wish  to  carry  through,  but  it  is 
impossible  to  do  it,  when  twenty  or  thirty 
men  stand  out  and  say  they  will  not  vote  for 
them  unless  they  put  their  county  bills 
through.  That  condition  is  made  a  sine  qua 
non  to  the  passage  of  public  bills.  Can  we 
not  put  a  stop  to  that  ?  I  urge  it  not  because 
I  am  a  representative  of  Scott  county.   There 


278 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Monday,  August  3. 


are  a  number  of  other  counties  now  interested 
in  this  matter — Fillmore  county  among  the 
rest — and  unless  we  now  adopt  some  provis- 
ion in  regard  to  this  subject,  our  future  State 
will  be  forced  to  it  at  some  future  time.  One 
gentleman  says  our  counties  are  left  in  a  bad 
position  now.  Well  if  we  allow  it  to  go  on 
when  shall  we  cure  the  evil  ?  Is  not  this  the 
time  to  cure  it  ? 

Mr.  COGGSWELL  moved  that  the  Con- 
vention adjourn. 

The  motion  was  not  agreed  to. 

Mr.  NORTH.  I  want  to  quote  one  of  the 
provisions  of  another  State,  to  which  the  gen- 
tleman from  Scott  county  has  referred.  It  is 
satisfactory  to  me  entirely.  The  Constitu- 
tion of  Illinois  provides — 

"  There  shall  be  no  Territory  stricken  from  any 
county  unless  a  majority  of  the  voters  living  in 
such  Territory  shall  petition  for  such  a  division  ; 
and  no  Territory  shall  be  added  to  any  county 
without  the  consent  of  a  majority  of  the  voters  of 
the  county  to  which  it  is  proposed  to  be  added." 

Mr.  "WILSON.  Let  me  inform  the  gentle- 
man from  Rice  county  that  the  Constitution 
of  Iowa,  framed  last  spring,  has  a  section 
detinite  and  pointed  upon  that  subject. 

A  VOICE.     It  has  not  been  adopted. 

Mr.  WILSON.  I  know  it  has  not,  but 
there  is  no  dDubt  but  that  it  will  be.  It 
shows,  at  any  rate,  the  feeling  of  the  people 
of  that  State  upon  the  subject. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  hope  this  amendment, 
as  an  additional  section,  will  not  be  adopted 
by  this  Convention,  and  I  need  oiFer  no  other 
reason  than  that  given  by  the  gentleman  from 
Scott  county  himself  Adopt  the  amendment 
and  you  immediately  array  a  large  portion  of 
the  people  of  this  Territory  against  the  Con- 
stitution. Why  ?  Because  there  are  a  large 
number  of  people  in  this  Territory  who  want 
new  counties  created. 

The  gentleman  has  referred  to  Fillmore 
county.  I  do  not  doubt  that  there  are  a  large 
number  of  people  in  Fillmore  county  who 
desire  that  the  west  part  of  the  county  should 
be  set  off  as  a  new  county  with  the  east  part 
of  Mower  county.  Now  let  this  proposition 
be  adopted  and  you  array  the  balance  of  the 
citizens  of  Fillmore  county  against  the  Con- 
stitution, because  they  will  be  deprived  of 
their  just  rights  in  that  matter.  They  will 
be  dismembered  by  a  portion  of  their  county 
being  taken  off,  which  helps  to  pay  the  taxes 


of  that  county,  and  that  too  without  their 
having  any  voice  in  the  matter,  whatever.  It 
will  operate  in  the  same  way  in  other  portions 
of  the  Territory.  On  the  other  hand,  adopt 
the  amendment  of  the  gentleman  from  Scott 
county,  and  you  will  array  against  the 
Constitution,  that  portion  of  the  people  living 
in  the  west  part  of  Fillmore  county,  and  the 
east  part  of  Mower  county.  You  cannot 
adopt  either  proposition  without  that  conse- 
quence following.  The  people  feel  deeply 
upon  this  subject,  as  deeply  as  the  gentleman 
from  Scott  county  who  oifei'ed  one  of  the 
pending  amendments.  I  want  to  avoid  com- 
ing in  conflict  with  that  feeling.  If  this  mat- 
ter is  to  be  decided  upon  its  merits,  let  it  be 
decided  by  the  Legislature,  and  not  by  a  Con- 
stitutional Convention.  If  representatives 
from  Fillmore  county  come  into  the  Legisla- 
ture, they  wUl  be  arrayed  against  each  other 
upon  that  question,  and  both  sides  will  be 
discussed,  and  then  if  the  Legislature,  after 
hearing  both  sides  of  the  argument,  see  fit  to 
create  a  new  county,  let  it  be  done. 

It  is  said  that  bills  will  be  log-rolled  through. 
You  cannot  prevent  that  by  any  thing  you 
may  put  into  the  Constitution.  If  you  pre- 
vent it  upon  this  matter,  you  leave  other  mat- 
ters open.  Every  Legislative  body  is  affected 
with  that  failing  more  or  less;  This  traffick- 
ing for  votes  in  legislative  bodies  is  conunon, 
and  customary,  but  because  it  is  customary, 
is  it  any  reason  why  we  should  insert  such  a 
provision  in  the  Constitution  ?  I  trust  that 
both  the  amendment  and  substitute  will  be 
voted  down. 

The  question  was  then  taken  on  Mr.  Vaughn's 
substitute,  and  it  was  rejected. 

The  question  recun'ed  on  Mr.  GALBRAiTn,s 
amendment. 

Mr.  WILSON.  This  amendment  was 
adopted  in  committee  this  morning,  but  I  am 
afraid  I  see  a  change  in  the  votes  from  what 
they  were  in  the  morning,  but  I  cannot  see 
why.  Who  has  not  noticed  the  action  of  the 
Legislature  upon  this  subject  ?  Sitting  in  my 
otficc  at  home  last  winter,  it  was  amusing  to 
hear  the  schemes  which  were  laid,  and  the 
arrangements  which  were  made  to  got  certain 
matters  of  this  kind  throu<rh  the  Legislature. 
"Here,"  says  one  man,  "I  am  going  to  lay 
"  out  a  town,  and  I  am  going  up  to  the  Le- 
"  gislature  to  have  a  piece  cutoff  of  this  county 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Monday,  Arorsr  3. 


279 


"and  a  piece  off  of  that  county  and  make  a 
"  new  county,  and  then  I  will  sell  off  my  town, 
"and  make  a  fortune  out  of  it."  He  was 
going  to  give  so  much  to  this  man  in  the 
Legislature,  and  so  much  to  that  man,  and 
those  men  would  have  interest  enough  in  it  to 
put  it  through  the  Legislature. 

True  it  looks  like  viliainy  run  to  seed.  It 
is  imposition  of  the  vilest  sort,  but  it  is  done 
under  the  guise  of  speculation,  and  though  I 
laughed  at  it  in  my  office  at  home,  I  cannot 
here,  under  the  sanction  of  my  oath.  The 
man  who  can  get  up  here  and  say  that  the 
Legislatvu"e  will  hereafter  do  what  is  right  in 
this  matter,  must  have  a  stronger  belief  in 
the  honesty  of  the  Legislature  than  I  have. 
When  I  see  a  man^do  wrong  again  and  again, 
I  believe  he  will  continue  to  do  so,  and  ihe 
same  rule  holds  to  the  Legislature.  I  want 
to  place  this  matter  out  of  their  reach.  I  do 
not  want  to  hold  out  anything  as  a  tempta- 
tion to  the  Legislature,  for  they  can  go  far 
enough  without  temptation. 

The  clause  of  the  Constitution  of  Illinois, 
which  was  read  by  the  gentleman  from  Rice 
county,  was  adopted  in  1847.  Few  knew 
ten  years  ago  the  length  to  which  this  thing 
would  be  carried,  and  that  is  reason  enough 
for  that  provision.  Few  knew  that  coimty 
seats  would  be  established  w"here  there  was 
not  a  house.  But  now,  he  is  no  genius  who 
cannot  invent  such  a  scheme  as  that. 

We  now  have  it  in  our  power  to  put  a  stop 
to  this  thing,  and  why  should  we  not  do  it  ? 
I  lay  it  down  as  a  principle  on  which  I  act  in 
every  case,  that  where  I  know  a  thing  is  com- 
pletely and  absolutely  right,  I  vote  for  it.  And 
that  is  the  light  in  which  I  view  this  matter. 
I  do  not  care  if  it  does  savor  of  legislation. 
I  shall  not  be  scared  by  that  cry.  This  is 
clearly  demanded  of  me,  on  account  of  the 
past  action  of  our  Territorial  Legislature,  and 
I  infer  that  they  will  act  hereafter  as  they 
have  heretofore.  I  think  that  is  a  safe  mode 
of  judging.  What  county  is  safe  ?  Who 
knows  what  trades  will  be  made?  Who 
does  not  know  that  some  representatives  are 
elected  with  direct  reference  to  some  little 
coimty  seat  operation?  It  is  true  that  all 
general  rules  wiU  work  some  hardships.  But 
look  now  at  the  counties  of  Minnesota,  and 
tell  me  which  is  the  greatest  hardship,  to 
leave  them  as  they  are,  subject  to  this  system 


of  fraud,  by  leaving  it  tmrestrained,  or  an 
individual  case  of  wrong  now  and  then 
inflicted  by  a  general  rule  ? 

Mr.  NO^H.  I  am  glad  to  hear  the  gen- 
tleman from  Winona  say  that  he  is  going  for 
what  he  believes  is  absolutely  right  upon  every 
case.  I  hope  he  wiU  bear  that  in  mind  when 
the  suffrage  question  comes  up. 

Mr.  WILSON.  And  upon  the  women's 
right  question. 

Mr.  NORTH.  There  are  many  cases  the 
gentleman  is  committed  on.  The  gentleman 
seems  to  argue  this  question  as  though  no  in- 
justice or  hardship  is  done  except  by  forming 
new  counties,  and  cutting  up  the  present 
coimties.  It  strikes  me  that  there  are  in- 
stances where  great  injustice  may  be  done  by 
not  doing  something  of  that  sort.  I  am  far 
from  believing  that  the  coimties  in  their  pre- 
sent shape  are  perfect.  I  am  far  from  think- 
ing that  that  small  county  formed  last  winter, 
should  forever  remain  in  its  present  form.  I 
think  it  should  be  cut  up,  and  cut  up  so  as 
to  take  the  whole  of  it  and  put  it  into  some 
county  where  there  are  more  lands.  I  think 
there  are  other  counties  not  perfect  in  their 
form.  In  a  county  settling  as  fast  as  this  is, 
new  business  towns  are  springing  up,  where 
people  go  to  transact  their  business  and  where 
county  seats  should  be;  but  if  county Hnes 
are  to  remain  forever  unchanged,  men  must 
remain  forever  subject  to  the  inconvenience  of 
going  to  other  towns  to  transact  their  public 
business.  There  are  portions  of  counties  not 
much  settled  as  yet,  which  are  remote  from 
the  county  seats  to  which  they  belong,  but 
are  nearer  to  the  county  seats  of  other  coun- 
ties, where  it  would  be  convenient  for  the  peo- 
ple to  go  to  transact  their  public  business. 
But  submit  the  question  to  the  vote  of  the 
county  to  which  they  belong,  and  what  is  the 
result  ?  The  county  would  not  allow  them  to 
be  set  off,  and  they  could  never  get  released 
until  doomsday.  They  would  be  perpetually 
subjected  to  that  inconvenience  and  injustice. 

But  the  gentleman  says  legislators  make 
bargains  for  the  purpose  of  cutting  up  coun- 
ties and  making  new  towns.  Did  it  never  oc- 
cur to  the  gentleman  that  bargains  are  made 
upon  the  other  side  ?  and  perhaps  as  numer- 
ous as  upon  that  side  ?  I  am  inclined  to  think 
that  legislative  bodies,  when  the  cases  arise, 
are  competent  to  scrutinize  those  questions. 


280 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Monday,  August  3. 


I  am  aware  that  injustice  is  sometimes  done.  I 
am  aware  also  that  injustice  wovild  be  done  if 
the  hands  of  the  legislature  were  tied  so  that 
they  could  not  do  what  was  just^hen  a  case 
comes  before  them ;  there  are  two  sides  to  be 
considered. 

Mr.  BILLINGS.  As  I  represent  a  portion 
of  FiUmore  county  interested  in  this  subject 
more  than  any  other,  I  should  do  myself  and 
my  constituents  injustice,  did  I  not  express 
my  views  upon  it.  Fillmore  county,  I  trust, 
will  always  be  one  and  indivisible.  She  is 
large,  but  none  too  large.  I  have  not  the  least 
fear,  that  with,  or  without  the  restriction,  you 
could  muster  a  respectable  minority  in  that 
county  to  favor  a  division.  Hence  my  oppo- 
sition to  this  amendment  is  not  based  upon 
any  such  fear.  But  I  see  quite  a  feeling 
amongst  us,  who  represent  different  sections 
of  the  country,  and  an  animated  discussion 
has  grown  up  about  the  mode  of  settling  the 
matter.  If  this  subject  is  so  exciting  to  us, 
what  will  be  the  feeling  when  we  carry  home 
the  matter  to  our  constituents  ?  Now  shall 
we  apply  a  rule  to-day,  which  is  to  apply  to 
all  ages  to  come  ?  "  Or  shall  we  act  for  the 
present  and  let  the  future  act  for  itself  as  cir- 
cumstances may  demand  ?  I  am  decidedly 
in  favor  of  voting  down  everything  except  the 
substitute  which  we  have  adopted.  Wise 
men  will  not  all  have  left  the  Territory  when 
we  go  home;  occasionally,  a  true  man  wiU 
come  here  and  occupy  a  seat  as  a  legislator. 
The  gentleman  from  Winona  and  myself,  hon- 
est men,  may  perchance,  creep  in  by  accident, 
and  do  our  constituents  and  ourselves  justice. 
I  do  not  beUeve  in  total  depravity,  or  that  this 
is  the  only  possible  chance  when  justice  can 
be  done  to  Minnesota.  I  hope  there  will  be 
men  who  will  represent  the  interests  of  Min- 
nesota, when  I  am  gone,  as  truly  as  I  would. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH  demanded  the  yeas  and 
nays. 

The  yeas  and  nays  were  ordered,  and  the 
question  being  taken,  it  was  decided  in  the 
negative ;  yeas  sixteen,  nays  twenty-five ;  as 
follows : 

Yeas. — Messrs.  Anderson,  Baldwin,  Bartholo- 
mew, Coggswell,  Eschlic,  Galbraith,  Harding  Han- 
son, Kemp,  McCann,  McKune,  Messer,  Mills, 
Smith,  Watson,  Wilson.— 16. 

^<iy«.— Messrs.  Aldrich,  Ayer,  Billings,  Butler, 
Colbum,  Coombs,  Duley,  Folsom,  Gerrish,  Hay- 
den,    Hudson,    Lyle,    Mantor,  McClure,  North, 


Phelps,  Perkins,  Putnam,  Peckham,  Russell,  Stan- 
nard,  Secombe,  Thompson,  Vaughn,  Sheldon. — 25. 

So  the  amendment  was  not  agreed  to. 

Mr.  ALDRICH.  Mr.  President,  I  oflfer 
the  following  as  an  additional  section : 

Sec.  — .  No  county  shall  hereafter  be  created 
or  organized  in  this  State  of  less  territory  than 
four  hundred  square  miles. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  Mr.  President,  I 
now  desire  to  offer  the  amendment  which  I 
offered  in  committee  of  the  Whole,  as  a  sub- 
stitute for  that  additional  section. 

This  proposition  was  read  as  before  printed. 

Mr.  ALDRICH.  Mr.  President,  I  do  not 
propose  to  discuss  this  matter  at  all ;  I  would 
like,  for  my  part,  to  have  something  like  what 
I  have  offered,  in  the  Constitution;  and  I 
would  like  to  vote  upon  that  simple  proposi- 
tion. 

Mr.  BILLINGS.  Mr.  President,  I  move 
the  previous  question. 

Mr.  PERKINS.  I  was  going  to  suggest 
that  the  sentiments  of  the  proposition  offered 
by  the  gentleman  from  Steele  coimty,  had 
better  go  into  the  Bill  of  Rights. 

The  main  question  was  ordered,  to-wit : 
the  adoption  of  Mr.  Coggswell' s  substitute  ; 
and  it  was  rejected. 

The  question  recurring  on  Mr.  Aldrich' s 
amendment,  it  was  also  rejected. 

Mr.  ALDRICH.  Mr.  President,  I  have 
one  more  amendment — another  section,  as 
follows : 

Sec.  — .  No  county  seat,  after  having  been  loca- 
ted by  the  people  thereof,  shall  be  removed  or 
changed  oftener  than  once  in  ten  years,  and  then 
by  a  vote  of  the  people  only. 

The  section  was  rejected. 

Mr.  HARDING.  Mr.  President,  I  now 
move  that  the  rules  be  so  far  suspended,  as  to 
allow  this  article,  as  amended,  to  be  referred 
to  the  committee  on  Phraseology. 

Mr.  THOMPSON.  I  move  to  amend  that 
motion,  so  as  to  allow  the  article  to  be  order- 
ed to  engrossment,  and  to  be  now  read  the 
third  time  and  passed.  I  thmk  we  are  now 
through  with  the  amendments. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  Mr.  President,  I  would 
like  to  inquire  of  the  Chairman  of  the  com- 
mittee on  Arrangement  and  Phraseology,  as 
to  the  progress  of  their  investigations.  Sev- 
eral reports  have  been  referred  to  them. 

Mr.  McCLURE.    It  strikes  me,  that,  ac- 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Tuesday,  Arcrsr  4. 


281 


cording  to  our  rules,  this  reference  is  proposed 
to  be  made  entirely  too  soon. 

Mr.  COLBUKN.  The  motion  is  to  suspend 
the  rules. 

Mr.  McCLURE.  In  regard  to  the  gentle- 
man's question,  I  can  not  see  how  we  can 
make  the  arrangement  until  we  shall  get  all 
the  reports.  Two  of  the  articles  which  have 
been  referred  to  our  committee  have  been  re- 
ported back,  and  they  are  now  in  the  hands 
of  the  committee  on  Enrolment. 

Mr.  Thompson's  amendment  of  the  motion 
was  agreed  to,  and  then  the  motion,  as  amen- 
ded, was  agreed  to. 

And  accordingly,  the  article  was  ordered 
to  be  engrossed  and  read  the  third  time ;  and 
it  was  read  the  third  time  and  passed. 

The  Convention  then  adjourned. 


TWENTIETH  DAY. 

Tuesday,  August  4tii,  1857. 
The  Convention  met  at  nine  o'clock,  a.  m. 
The  jomnal  of  yesterday  was  read  and  ap- 
proved. 

STATE   OFFICEKS,  OTHEE  THAN  EXECUTIVE. 

On  motion  of  Mr.  CLEGHORN,  the  Con- 
vention resolved  into  committee  of  the  whole 
— Mr.  Cleghobn  in  the  Chair,  and  took  up 
the  consideration  of  the  report  (No.  twelve), 
embracing  an  article  from  the  committee  on 
State  Officers,  other  than  Executive. 
(For  report  see  proceedings  of  July  31st.) 

The  report  was  read  by  sections  for  amend- 
ment. 

The  first  and  second  sections  were  passed 
without  amendment. 

"  Sec.  3.  Whenever  a  vacancy  shall  occur  in 
any  of  the  State  ofiBces,  the  Governor  shall  fill  the 
same  by  appointment,  until  the  next  election  of 
Representatives,  by  and  with  the  advise  and  con- 
sent of  the  Senate,  if  in  session." 

Mr.  BALCOMBE.  I  would  suggest  the 
propriety  of  striking  out  the  words  "  imtil 
"  the  next  election  of  Representatives,"  and 
inserting  some  provision  for  their  filling  the 
vacancy  during  the  balance  of  the  term,  and 
until  the  next  election  to  said  offices. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  This  section  is  pretty 
much  the  same  as  we  find  in  other  Constitu- 
tions, referring  to  the  same  subject.  It  seems 
to  me  that  it  is  sufficientiy  definite,  and  the 
proposition  of  the  gentieman  fix»m  Winona 
36 


does  not  cover  the  whole  ground.  His  pro- 
position does  not  determine  whether  or  not 
the  persons  appomted  to  fill  vacancies  shall 
hold  their  offices  for  the  full  term.  The  idea 
of  the  section  is,  that  at  the  next  annual  elec- 
tion the  vacancies  shall  be  filled  for  the  unex- 
pired term.  If  that  is  so  then  the  section  is 
all  right  as  it  stands,  and  I  would  desire  no 
amendment. 

Mr.  HAYDEN.  I  think,  taken  in  connec- 
tion with  the  first  section,  this  section  con- 
veys that  idea.  The  first  section  provides 
that  there  shall  be  elected  at  each  general 
biennial  election,  certain  officers ;  and  this 
third  section  conveys  the  idea  that  when  a 
vacancy  shall  occur  the  first  year  there  shall 
be  an  election  to  fill  such  vacancy  at  the  next 
annual  election  for  representatives,  instead  of 
waiting  until  the  next  biennial  election  comes 
round. 

Mr.  BALCOMBE.  I  do  not  understand 
the  purport  of  the  section  exactiy  as  the  gen- 
tleman from  Hennepin  does.  Suppose  an 
election  takes  place  this  fall  for  the  State  of- 
ficers holding  their  office  for  two  years  fit)m 
January.  In  February  one  of  the  State  of- 
ficers might  be  removed,  and  the  Governor 
would  appoint  some  one  to  fill  his  place.  Ac 
cording  to  the  section  he  would  fill  that  office 
only  until  the  next  election  of  Representatives, 
which  would  be  a  year  from  this  fall,  and  not 
until  the  January  following.  I  think  it  should 
provide  that  he  should  hold  his  office  until 
the  next  election  for  said  offices. 

Mr.  HAYDEN.  The  id«»  of  tiie  gentle- 
man fi^)m  Winona  is  that  the  vacancy  wiU  be 
filled  only  till  the  people  assemble  again  for 
an  election.  Suppose  that  in  March  of  the 
first  year  there  should  be  a  vacancy  created. 
The  Governor  would  then  fill  the  vacancy 
until  the  fall  election.  There  would  be  no 
regular  election  for  State  officers  until  the  year 
after.  Now  this  section  provides  that  the 
(jovemor  shall  fill  the  vacancy  imtil  the  people 
hold  theu"  next  election,  and  when  they  do  so, 
that  they  shall  have  the  privflege  of  selecting 
a  man  to  fill  the  vacancy  imtil  the  next  r^u- 
lar  election  of  State  officers. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  It  is  impUed  here, 
that  there  shall  be  an  election  to  fill  a  vacancy 
at  the  next  annual  election,  after  the  occur- 
rence of  the  vacancy.  But  then,  how  long 
shall  the  person  so  elected  hold  the  office? 


282 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Tuesday,  August  4. 


Shall  it  be  until  the  nex  biennial  election,  or 
shall  he  hold  for  the  full  term  of  two  years  ? 

No  amendment  was  offered  and  the  section 
was  passed  over. 

"  Sec.  4.  The  Secretary  of  State,  State  Trea- 
surer and  Auditer  shall  constitute  a  board  of  State 
Canvassers,  to  determine  the  result  of  all  elections 
for  Governor  and  State  oflScers,  and  such  other  of- 
ficers as  may  be  referred  to  them." 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  That  section,  as  it 
now  stands,  provides  that  the  same  person 
who  may  be  re-elected — the  Secretary  of  State, 
State  Treasurer,  and  Auditor— shall  canvass 
the  returns  of  their  own  election — for  they 
may  be  re-elected  a  second  time,  and  third 
time.  To  say  the  least  of  the  propriety  of 
the  matter,  they  are  too  much  interested  to 
canvass  the  returns  of  their  own  election, 
though  I  do  not  exactly  see  how  we  shall 
better  it.  Gentlemen  of  the  Convention  who 
made  this  report,  have  probably  considered 
this  matter  and  I  would  like  to  hear  from 
them.  It  has  been  a  rule  in  many  States 
that  persons  eligible  to  re-election  should  not 
be  canvassers  of  the  election.  If  these  of- 
ficers were  to  canvass  votes  cast  for  them- 
selves in  a  close  contest,  it  would  at  least 
subject  them  to  suspicion  of  wrong.  This 
board  of  Canvassers  is  entirely  a  new  thing 
with  me.  To  say  the  least  about  it,  men's 
interests  lead  them  a  good  wayS;  and  though 
they  may  be  honest  they  will  be  subjected  to 
suspicion  under  such  circumstances. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  I  move  to  strike  out 
section  four. 

Mr.  BILLINGS.  I  hope  that  sections  five 
and  six  will  be  read  before  the  question  is 
taken  upon  striking  out  section  four. 

Sections  five  and  six  were  read  as  follows: 

"  Sbo.  5.  In  case  two  or  more  persons  have  an 
equal  and  highest  number  of  votes,  for  any  oflBce, 
as  canvassed  by  the  Board  of  State  Canvassers,  the 
Legislature  in  joint  Convention,  shall  choose  one 
of  said  persons  to  fill  such  oflSce. 

"Sbc.  6.  When  the  determination  of  the  Board 
of  State  Canvassers  is  contested,  the  Legislature, 
in  joint  Convention,  shall  decide  which  person  is 
elected." 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  I  withdraw  my  mo- 
tion, and  move  to  strike  out  sections  four,  five 
and  six. 

Mr.  PERKINS.  I  hope  the  motion  will  not 
prevail,  unless  the  gentleman  can  indicate 
some  suflBcient  reason  for  it.     I  do  not  sup- 


pose he  makes  the  motion  without  reasons, 
and  I  should  like  to  hear  what  they  are.  A 
Board  of  Canvassers  is  here  established,  and 
an  appeal  provided  for  from  their  decision. 
It  appears  to  me  that  to  let  this  board  canvas 
the  votes  in  the  first  instance  and  determine 
the  result,  is  proper;  and  that  section  six 
provides  a  suflBcient  guarantee  against  any 
fraud  they  might  be  inclined  to  perpetrate. 
I  do  not  see  why  the  matter  is  not  in  as  good 
shape  as  it  can  be. 

Mr.  HUDSON.  Before  I  vote  to  strike  out 
these  sections,  I  want  some  better  way  point- 
ed out  to  accomplish  the  end  they  have  in 
view.  In  Michigan,  where  I  have  lived,  the 
returns  are  made  to  these  ofiicers,  and  I  un- 
derstand that  those  returns  are  always  public 
property,  and  can  be  inspected  by  any  one. 
Sections  five  and  six  provide  that  any  per- 
sons, who  think  that  wrong  or  fraud  has  been 
committed  by  these  officers,  may  appeal  from 
their  decision.  I  certainly  can  see  no  objec- 
tion to  these  provisions. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  We  have  here  in  this 
Territory  the  returns  of  election  made  to  the 
Secretary  of  the  Territory,  He  is  directly 
interested,  and  I  would  like  to  see  any  gen- 
tleman inspect  the  returns  in  Ms  office. 

Mr.  BILLINGS.  The  idea  of  the  com- 
mittee was  that  they  could  not  constitute  a 
Board  of  State  Canvassers,  without  having 
them  oflBcers  of  the  State,  although  they 
might  set  in  judgment  upon  themselves,  they 
have  the  returns  for  all  other  officers  referred 
to  them.  We  did  not  propose  to  go  outside 
of  the  State  organization  and  appoint  persons 
specially  for  that  purpose,  and  that  only.  I 
have  not  yet  come  to  the  conclusion  that  I 
should  be  warranted  in  prejudging  that  those 
oflBcers  would  not  do  their  duty.  I  think  we 
are  faUing  upon  very  perilous  times,  when  as 
an  objection  to  everything,  we  must  predicate 
our  arguments  upon  'the  almost  positive 
knowledge  that  persons  to  whom  wo  entrust 
State  matters,  will  prove  recreant  to  duty. 

This  Board  of  State  Canvassers  would  not 
canvass  the  returns  of  their  own  election  un- 
der the  Constitution,  because,  as  I  have  al- 
ways understood,  the  Convention  will  make  a 
special  provision  for  the  return  and  canvass  of 
those  votes.  If  this  Board  of  State  Canvass- 
ers will  prove  honest  and  true,  I  could  have 
no  objection  to  their  sitting  and  canvassing 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Tuesday,  August  4. 


283 


he  returns  of  the  next  election,  even  if  they 
are  candidates ;  and  if  they  are  not  true  and 
honest,  I  trust  we  shall  not  re-elect  them,  and 
in  that  case  they  would  not  sit  upon  their  own 
case.  But  suppose  they  should ;  if  there 
were  no  two  persons  having  an  equal  and  the 
highest  number  of  votes,  there  could  be  no 
doubt  as  to  who  was  elected.  It  is  possible 
to  make  a  false  report  of  the  returns  when 
there  is  not  a  clear  majority  for  any  one  per- 
son ;  and  if  there  is  not  a  clear  majority,  then 
the  Legislature  can,  under  these  sections,  re- 
view the  matter.  If  there  is  any  suspicion 
that  the  Board  of  State  Canvassers  have  not 
done  justice,  section  six  gives  the  right  to  the 
Legislature  to  contest  that  canvass.  If  a  bet- 
ter system  can  be  devised  than  the  one  which 
your  committee  have  reported,  the  committee 
would  gladly  vote  for  it. 

Mr.  COGGS  WELL.  I  have  had  but  a  very 
few  moments  to  consider  this  report ;  but  the 
very  moment  I  read  sections  four,  five  and 
six,  it  struck  me,  in  the  first  place,  that  they 
savored  strongly  of  legislation,  to  start  with. 
In  the  next  place,  it  struck  me  forcibly  that 
section  four  was  upon  the  principle  of  "  vote 
"  yourself  a  farm" — or,  "  vote  yourself  into 
"  office." 

In  regard  to  sections  five  and  six — and  es- 
pecially six — it  seems  to  me  that  the  Legisla- 
tiu"e  is  not  the  proper  tribunal  to  try  cases  of 
contested  elections  of  State  oflBcers.  So  fer 
as  then"  own  individual  members  are  con- 
cerned, I  have  no  doubt  that  they  are  the  pro- 
per tribunal  to  decide  their  own  contested 
election  cases.  We  have  already  said,  in  that 
part  and  portion  of  the  Constitution  which  we 
have  already  passed  upon,  that  they  shall  be 
judges  of  the  qualifications  and  retvuns  of 
their  own  members.  But  when  you  come  to 
say  that  the  Legislature  shall  sit  in  judgment 
upon  the  rights  of  certain  individuals  to  be 
Governor,  Secretary  ai  State,  Auditor,  or  any 
office  of  that  kind,  it  seems  to  me  it  is  estab- 
lishing a  judicial  tribunal  which  is  imcommon. 
I  have  not  examined  other  Constitutions  upon 
that  subject,  but  I  know  that  a  great  many 
of  our  Western  Constitutions  are  entirely  si- 
lent upon  that  subject,  and  especially  the  Con- 
stitution of  Wisconsin — which  we  aU  say  is 
about  as  good  as  we  can  find  in  any  Western 
State. 

My  judgment  would  be  to  leave  this  matter 


entirely  to  the  wisdom  of  the  Legislature, 
and  if  they  see  fit  to  establish  a  board  of  can- 
vassers, composed  of  these  individuals,  let 
them  do  so.  If  they  can  devise  a  better 
plan,  and  can  constitute  a  board  of  canvas- 
sers composed  of  men  who  have  no  personal 
interest  in  the  result  of  the  election,  it  would 
be  better,  to  say  the  least  of  it. 

The  argument  that  sections  of  this  kind 
are  to  be  foimd  in  some  other  Constitutions, 
is  not  a  very  weighty  one,  because  if  that  is 
to  be  considered  as  a  w'eighty  argument,  my 
recollection  is  that  we  can  find  many  Consti- 
tutions, and  equal  in  number,  in  which  noth- 
ing is  said  about  this  matter. 

As  I  said  in  the  first  place,  I  have  not 
investigated  this  matter  thoroughly,  but  my 
impression  is  that  we  had  better  leave  this 
matter  entirely  to  the  wisdom  of  the  Leg- 
islatvire. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  I  am  not  at  all  op- 
posed to  the  motion  of  the  gentleman  firom 
Steele  coimty,  and  I  think  it  might  be  safely 
left  to  the  Legislature  to  establish  a  board  of 
canvassers.  But  I  will  offer  the  following 
amendment  to  section  four.  Strike  out 
"  Auditor  "  in  the  first  line,  and  insert  "  Chief 
Justice  of  the  Supreme  Court."  The  Judge 
of  the  Supreme  Court  can  never  sit  upon 
the  return  of  his  own  election — for  I  take 
it,  that  the  oldest  judge  in  commission  will 
always  be  the  Chief  Justice — will  always  be 
in  office,  and  consequently  can  never  sit  upon 
his  own  election  returns.  There  will  then  be 
at  least  one  conservative  element  in  the  board 
— the  presumption  is,  the  most  conservative 
dement  in  the  government — a  man  whose 
whole  reputation  depends  upon  acting  fairly 
in  the  matter.  It  would  be  eminently  proper 
to  put  such  a  trust  into  the  hands  of  the  Chief 
Justice.  He  could  never  sit  upon  his  own 
election,  though  he  might  upon  that  of  his 
colleagues. 

Mr.  BALCOilBE.  Two  systems  have 
prevailed  in  other  States  in  reference  to  this 
matter.  One  has  been  to  make  the  returns 
to  the  speaker  of  the  House  of  Representa- 
tives, or  the  presiding  officer  of  the  Senate. 
The  other  has  been  the  course  which  has 
been  recommended  by  the  committee  in  this 
report — that  a  certain  number  of  State  officers 
should  constitute  a  board  of  State  canvassers, 
from  whose  decision  an  appeal  could  be  taken 


284 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Tuesday,  August  4. 


to  the  Legislative  Assembly.  Of  the  two,  I 
prefer  the  system  recommended  by  the  com- 
mittee. If  that  board  should  so  far  prove 
recreant  to  their  duty  as  to  outstrip  the 
bounds  of  right  and  justice,  any  one  com- 
plaining of  their  decision,  can  appeal  to  a 
higher  tribunal. 

I  like,  also,  the  amendment  proposed  by 
the  delegate  from  Scott  county  (Mr.  Gal- 
BBAirn).  I  think  it  very  proper  indeed  that 
the  Chief  Justice  should  be  made  a  member  of 
that  board.  I  am  opposed  to  striking  out  the 
three  sections,  and  I  hope  it  vnll  not  be  done. 

Mr.  BILLINGS.  As  one  of  the  committee 
who  made  this  report,  if  no  other  member 
objects,  I  wiU  accept  the  amendment  of  the 
gentleman  from  Scott  county. 

The  amendment  of  Mr.  Galbbaith  was 
then  agi'eed  to. 

The  motion  to  strike  out  the  three  sections 
was  not  agreed  to. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  I  move  now  to  amend 
section  three,  by  inserting  after  the  words 
"  Representative  "  the  words — 

— "  And  until  an  officer  to  fill  such  vacancy  shall 
be  elected  and  qualified  according  to  law." 

.--As  the  section  now  stands,  it  suspends  the 
appointment  of  the  Governor  at  the  time  of 
the  election  of  Representatives.  If  a  person 
elected  to  fill  the  vacancy,  should  fail  to 
qualify,  there  might  be  a  contest  as  to  who 
should  fill  the  office,  or  whether  there- was 
any  one  who  could  do  so.  My  amendment  is 
designed  to  obviate  that  difficulty. 

Mr.  MORGAN.  It  seems  to  me  that  there 
is  another  objection  to  section  three.  If  we 
examine  it,  we  shall  find  that  it  does  not  give 
the  power  of  appointment  to  the  Governor, 
except  during  the  session  of  the  Senate.  It 
was,  no  doubt,  intended  to  give  him  the  abso- 
lute power  of  appointment  at  any  time  during 
the  year,  but  under  the  construction  I  place 
upon  it,  he  would  not  have  the  power  of 
appointment  except  by  and  with  the  advice 
and  consent  of  the  Senate,  which  is  in  session 
only  fifty  days. 

Mr.  BILLINGS.  Your  committee  did  not 
give  the  section  that  construction.  It  was 
designed  that  the  Governor  should  not 
appoint  without  the  consent  of  the  Sen- 
ate, if  the  Senate  were  in  session  ;  but  if  not 
in  session,  he  should  have  the  power  of 
appointment  until  the  next  election  of  Rep- 


resentatives. The  amendment  of  the  gentle, 
man  from  Scott  county  was  designed  to 
obviate  the  possibility  of  a  vacancy,  and  no 
one  to  fill  it.  The  committee  based  this 
section  upon  the  supposition  that  there  are  as 
many  office  seekers,  as  offices,  and  if  a  vacancy 
should  happen,  some  one  would  stand  ready 
to  fill  it. 

Mr.  HUDSON.  I  think  it  very  clear  that 
the  construction  put  upon  this  section  by  the 
committee  is  correct.  It  says  positively  that 
the  Governor  shall  fill  a  vacancy  by  appoint- 
ment, and  the  manner  in  which  he  shall  fill  it 
is  pointed  out  upon  certain  conditions.  If  the 
Senate  is  in  session,  he  shall  do  it  with  their 
advice  and  consent,  but  he  shall  positively  do 
it  at  all  events. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  The  difficulty  would 
be  remedied  by  striking  out  the  words  "if  in 
session." 

Mr.  MORGAN.  It  seems  to  me  that  if 
we  strike  out  the  words  "if  in  session,"  we 
make  it  absolutely  necessary  that  the  Senate 
shall  give  their  assent.  It  seems  to  me,  that 
as  this  restriction  will  apply  but  two  months 
of  the  year,  we  might  as  well  strike  it  out 
altogether,  and  give  the  Governor  the  right  to 
appoint  absolutely.  I  move  to  amend  by 
striking  out  all  after  the  word  "  Represen- 
tatives," and  insert,  "  to  the  Legislature." 
That  would  show  what  Representatives  we 
mean.  I  offer  it  as  an  amendment  to  the 
section. 

The  CHAIRMAN.  There  is  already  an 
amendment  pending. 

Mr.  MORGAN.  Then  I  withdraw  my 
amendment  until  that  is  disposed  of. 

The  question  was  then  taken  on  Mr.  Gal- 
bbaith's  amendment,  and  it  vras  agreed  to. 

Mr.  RUSSELL.  I  offer  the  foUowing  sub- 
stitute for  the  section  as  amended  : 

"  Sec.  3.  Whenever  a  vacancy  shall  occur  in 
any  of  the  State  offices,*  the  Governor  shall  fill 
the  same  by  appointment,  until  the  successor  of 
such  officer  shall  be  elected  and  qualified." 

Mr.  HAYDEN.  I  hope  the  substitute  will 
not  prevail,  for  the  reason  that  it  makes  no 
provision  for  the  election  of  an  officer  to  fill 
a  vacancy  until  tlie  regular  biennial  election, 
which  in  some  cases  might  be  nearly  two 
years  after  the  vacancy  occurred. 

Mr.  RUSSELL.  I  would  leave  that  mat- 
ter with  the  Legislature. 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Tuesday,  August  4. 


285 


Mr.  HA  YDEN.    I  do  not  think  that  should 
be  done. 
The  substitute  was  rejected. 

"  Sec.  5.  In  case  two  or  more  persons  have  an 
equal  and  highest  number  of  votes,  for  any  office, 
as  canvassed  by  the  board  of  State  canvassers,  the 
Legislature  in  joint  Convention,  shall  choose  one 
of  said  persons  to  fill  such  office." 

Mr.  BALCOMBE.  I  rise  simply  to  sug- 
gest whether  it  would  not  be  best  to  confer 
that  power  on  only  one  of  the  bodies,  instead 
of  two  in  joint  Convention.  I  can  conceive 
of  instances  where  the  two  Houses  could 
never  be  brought  together.  I  know  such  a 
provision  is  common  in  many  of  om*  Consti- 
tutions. But  in  these  revolutionary  times 
when  a  certain  party  is  disposed  to  be  gov- 
erned by  the  border  ruifian  spirit,  and  to 
overstep  all  parliamentary  rules,  usages  and 
customs,  for  the  purpose  of  accompUshing 
political  ends,  the  question  arises  whether  it 
would  not  be  best  to  confer  that  power  upon 
one  House  instead  of  two?  Suppose  such 
an  election  takes  place  while  a  democrat  is 
Governor,  and  the  Senate  is  democratic,  but 
the  House  Republican  by  a  majority  sufficient 
to  overcome,  in  joint  Convention,  the  demo- 
cratic majority  in  the  Senate.  The  Senate 
might  refuse  to  go  into  joint  Convention  with 
the  House,  being  well  enough  satisfied  with 
the  Governor  already  in  office.  That  Gover- 
nor would  continue  to  hold  his  office  vmtil  his 
successor  was  qualified.  Such  a  circumstance 
might  happen — it  is  very  likely  to  happen. 
The  question,  then,  in  mymind,  is,  whether 
it  would  not  be  well  to  provide  against  such 
an  occurrence  by  referring  the  election  in 
such  closely  contested  cases,  wholly  to  the 
House  of  Representatives. 

Mr.  BATES.  I  think  the  su^estion  of  the 
gentleman  from  "Winona  is  a  good  one,  and  I 
move  to  amend  section  five  by  striking  out 
the  words  "  Legislative  in  joint  Convention 
*'  assembled,"  and  insert  "  House  of  Repre- 
"  sentatives." 

Mr.  PERKINS.  I  am  inclined  to  the  opin- 
ion that  the  amendment  ought  to  be  adopted. 
The  contmgency  indicated  might  not,  to  be 
sure,  occur,  but  still  it  might.  In  these  revo- 
lutionary times,  as  the  gentleman  fi-om  Wi- 
nona says,  such  transactions  as  he  has  spo- 
ken of,  are  very  likely  to  occur.  It  does  not 
seem  to  me  that  we  need  invoke  the  aid  of 


ihe  Senate  to  decide  such  a  question  of  Elec- 
tion. Referring  it  to  the  popular  branch  of 
the  Legislature  is  the  next  thing  to  referring 
it  back  to  the  people.  I  hope  the  amendment 
will  prevail. 

The  amendment  was  agreed  to. 

"Sec.  6.  When  the  determination  of  the 
board  of  State  Canvassers  is  contested,  the  Legis- 
lature, in  joint  Convention,  shall  decide  which 
person  is  elected." 

Mr.  KING.  I  move  to  amend  section  six, 
by  striking  out  the  words  "Legislature  in 
"joint  Convention,"  and  insert  "House  of 
"  Representatives." 

The  amendment  was  agreed  to. 

Mr.  BALCOMBE.  I  move  that  the  com- 
mittee rise  and  report  the  report  to  the  Con- 
vention with  a  recommendation  that  the 
amendments  be  concurred  in. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to,  and  the  com- 
mittee rose  and  reported  accordingly. 

The  question  was  upon  concurring  in  the 
amendments  of  the  committee  of  the  Whole. 

"First  Amendment. — After  the  word  "repre- 
sentative," in  section  three,  insert  the  words  "and 
until  an  officer  to  fill  such  vacancy  shall  be  elected 
and  qualified  according  to  law." 

The  amendment  was  concurred  in. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  I  now  offer  the  fol- 
lowing substitute  for  the  whole  of  section 
three  as  amended : 

"  Sec.  3.  Vacancies  in  any  of  the  State  offices 
aforesaid,  shall  be  filled  by  appointment  of  the 
Governor — to  continue  till  the  successor  shall  be 
elected  and  qualified." 

I  would  suggest  that  though  the  section  as 
it  is  amended  is  short,  yet  the  language  is 
not  plain.  It  is  scarcely  possible  to  use  lan- 
guage sufficiently  specific  without  going  into 
the  details  of  legislation.  I  know  that  some 
Constitutions  have  provisions  in  regard  to  fill- 
ing the  vacancies  in  offices,  and  I  know  too, 
that  vacancies  sometimes  occur  which  can- 
not be  filled.  Men  upon  this  floor  know  that 
there  are  now  some  difficulties  in  filling  vacan- 
cies in  the  office  of  Register  of  Deeds.  The 
amendment  provides  that  the  Governor  shall 
in  all  cases  fill  vacancies  whether  the  Legisla- 
ture is  in  session  or  not.  It  is  to  be  presumed 
that  the  Legislature  will  specify  the  details  as 
to  the  election  of  officers  to  fill  vacancies,  but 
the  government,  in  the  mean  time,  has,  by 
my  amendment,  the  power  to  fill  all  vacancies 
until  an  election  is  had. 


286 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Tuesday,  August  4. 


Mr.  SECOMBE.  As  the  gentleman  from 
Scott  county  has  remarked,  it  requires  some 
length  of  wording,  to  provide  fully  for  this 
matter.  I  had  been  attempting  to  prepare 
a  section,  which,  for  the  information  of  the 
Convention  I  will  read.     It  is  as  follows : 

"  Whenever  a  vacancy  shall  occur  in  any  of  the 
State  offices,  the  Governor,  by  and  with  the  con- 
sent of  the  Senate,  shall  appoint  some  person  to 
fall  said  vacancy;  and  the  person  so  appointed 
shall  hold  the  said  office  until  the  next  general 
election  and  until  his  successor  shall  have  been 
elected  and  qualified;  and  in  case  the  said  vacancy 
shall  occur  during  the  first  year  of  the  term  of 
said  officer,  then  at  the  next  general  election  an 
election  shall  be  held  to  fill  the  balance  of  the  said 
term." 

In  regard  to  the  remarks  which  have  been 
made  about  the  Senate  not  being  in  session 
to  consent  to  the  appointments  of  the  Gover- 
nor, I  will  say  that  I  think  the  practice  has 
been,  where  similar  power  has  been  given  to 
the  Governor  with  the  consent  of  the  Senate, 
that  the  Governor  appoints  in  the  first  in- 
stance, and  submits  his  appointment  to  the 
Senate  upon  their  first  meeting.  Such  has 
been  the  practice  in  this  Territory  where  the 
Governor  had  the  power  of  appointment  sub- 
ject to  the  consent  of  the  Council.  He  ap- 
points, in  the  first  instance,  and  submits  his 
appointments  to  the  Council  upon  their  first 
meeting  thereafter. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  My  substitute  is  a 
mere  assertion  of  power.  The  gentleman's 
amendment  is  more  definite. 

Mr.  HAYDEN.  I  would  like  to  ask  my 
friend  upon  my  left,  ( Mr.  Secombe,  )  if,  in 
case  the  Governor  appoints,  the  vacancy  can 
be  filled  by  the  appointee  until  the  Senate  as- 
sembles? Can  he  fill  the  oflSce  until  that 
time,  though  the  Senate,  upon  its  assembling, 
may  reject  his  nomination  ? 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  The  appointment  of  the 
gentleman  takes  place  immediately,  subject  to 
the  revision  of  the  Senate  when  they  meet. 

Mr.  HAYDEN.  If  that  is  the  idea,  I  am 
not  so  much  opposed  "to  the  amendment. 

In  regard  to  the  amendment  offered  by  the 
gentleman  from  Scott  county,  I  should  wish 
to  have  it  specify  that  if  a  vacancy  should  oc- 
cur during  the  first  year  of  the  term,  that  the 
people  shall  have  the  power  to  elect  to  fill  the 
vacancy  at  the  first  general  election. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.   I  would  suggest  to  the 


gentleman,  that  cases  might  arise,  when  per- 
haps it  would  be  well  for  the  Legislature  to 
order  a  special  election  to  fill  certain  vacan- 
cies. My  substitute  gives  the  Legislature  full 
power,  to  provide  how  and  when  an  election 
should  be  held.  I  have  no  hesitancy,  how- 
ever, in  allowing  the  words  "  until  the  next 
annual  election  "  to  be  inserted  ;  but  I  think 
the  fewer  words  we  use  the  better,  as  a  gen- 
eral thing,  provided  they  are  sufiicient  to 
enunciate  the  power  clearly.  The  Legisla- 
ture then  can  provide  all  the  details. 

The  question  was  then  taken  on  the  substi- 
tute offered  by  Mr.  Galhraith,  and  it  was 
adopted. 

Second  amendment  recommended  by  the 
committee : 

Fec.  4,  line  one,  strike  out  the  word  "  Auditor  " 
and  insert  "  Chief  Justice  of  the  Supreme  Court." 

Mr.  CLEGHORN.  I  think  an  amendment 
should  be  made  to  that  section,  in  addition  to 
that  recommended  by  the  committee.  There 
should  be  a  provision  specifying  how  many  of 
that  board  should  constitute  a  quorum. 

Mr.  PRESIDENT.  The  Chair  would  sug- 
gest that  the  universal  rule  is,  that  a  majority 
shall  constitute  a  quorum  and  shall  govern. 

The  amendment  of  the  committee  was  con- 
curred in. 

"  Third  Amendment. — Sec.  5,  strike  out  the 
words  '  Legislature  in  Joint  Convention,'  and  in- 
sert '  House  of  Kepresentatives.' " 

The  amendment  was  concurred  in. 

"Fourth  Amendment. — Sec.  6,  strike  out  the 
words  '  Legislature  in  Joint  Convention '  and  in- 
sert '  House  of  Kepresentatives.'  " 

The  amendment  was  concun'ed  in. 

Mr.  THOMPSON.  I  move  that  the  rules 
be  so  far  suspended  as  to  allow  this  report  to 
be  read  a  third  time  and  passed  now. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  I  hope  that  motion  will 
not  prevail.  I  think  we  had  better  pursue  the 
same  course  with  this  report  that  we  have 
with  others. 

The  motion  was  not  agreed  to. 

The  report  was  then  ordered  to  be  engross- 
ed for  a  third  reading. 

THE    ORGANIZATION    OF    THE    CONVENTION. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  A  few  days  since,  the 
gentleman  from  Goodhue  county,  (Mr.  Mc- 
Clure,  )  and  the  gentleman  from  Winona, 
(Mr.  Balcombe,)  offered  some  resolutions 
relating  to  matters  connected  with  the  organi- 
tion  of  this  Convention,  &c.    I  move  that 


iflNNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Tuesday,  August  4. 


287 


those  resolutions  be  taken  from  the  table  and 
considered  now. 

The  resolutions  were  taken  from  the  table 
and  read  to  the  Convention. 

Mr.  McCLURE.  As  there  was  but  little 
business  before  the  Convention  this  morning, 
it  was  thought  best  by  some  gentlemen  who 
wished  to  speak  to  these  resolutions,  to  take 
them  up  now.  But  as  there  is  considerable 
business  to  be  transacted  by  several  of  the 
committees,  I  would  move,  in  order  that  they 
may  have  time  to  attend  to  their  affairs  this 
morning,  that  the  consideration  of  those  reso- 
lutions be  postponed  until  half  past  two 
o'clock  this  afternoon. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  I  move  that  the  floor 
be  accorded  to  the  gentleman  from  Goodhue 
county,  ( Mr.  McCluke,  )  at  half  past  two 
o'clock  this  afternoon. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to. 

And  then,  on  motion  of  Mr.  Galbbaith, 
(  at  ten  o'clock  and  forty  minutes, )  the  Con- 
vention adjoimied  until  half  past  two  o'clock. 
AFTERNOON  SESSION. 

The  Convention  meet  at  half  past  two 
o'clock. 

ORGANIZATION   OP  THE   CONVENTION. 

Mr.  McCLURE.  Mr.  President,  I  wish  to 
occupy  the  time  of  the  Convention,  for  a 
short  time,  in  speaking  to  the  resolutions 
which  I  offered  some  days  since,  and  in  order 
to  place  the  Convention  in  possession  of  the 
facts  contained  therein,  I  will  read  them.  They 
are  as  follows : 

"Whereas,  There  is  official  evidence  from  the 
production  of  certificates  of  election,  that  there  is 
a  majority  of  the  legally  elected  members  of  the 
Constitutional  Convention,  who  claimed  and  have 
been  admitted  to  seats  in  this  Convention ;  and, 

"  Whebeas,  The  members  now  holding  seats  in 
this  Convention  who  produced  prima  facia  evi- 
dence by  the  production  of  regular  certificates  of 
election  as  such  delegates,  represent  a  majority  of 
the  legal  voters  of  this  Territory ;  and, 

"  "Whereas,  There  are  some  bodies  of  men  be- 
ginning to  assemble  in  a  chamber  of  this  Capitol, 
who  call  themselves  the  Constitutional  Convention, 
which  they  have  an  undoubted  right  to  do,  on  the 
principle  that  if  a  man  desires  making  a  fool  of 
himself,  there  is  no  law  against  it — many  of  whom 
have  no  certificates  of  election  to  the  Convention ; 
others  who  have  certificates  and  who  would  be 
admitted  to  seats  in  this  Convention  upon  the  pro- 
duction of  their  certificates,  who  have  not  attended 


the  meetings  of  this  Convention,  from  reasons  best 
known  to  themselves ;  therefore, 

"Resolved,  That  the  men  now  occupying  the 
chamber  at  the  other  end  of  the  Capitol  are  there, 
in  our  opinion,  for  the  purpose  of  defeating  the 
will  of  the  people,  and  that  their  acts  will  not  be 
recognized  by  the  electors  of  this  Territory ;  there- 
fore, 

"  Mesolied,  That  while  that  body  of  men  in  the 
Council  Chamber  are  denouncing  us  to  a  Federal 
President  and  threatening  us  with  the  power  of 
their  masters  that  the  above  preamble  and  resolu- 
tion, together  with  copies  of  the  credentials  and 
evidence  of  the  election  of  members  of  this  Con- 
vention be  laid  before  the  sovereign  people  of 
Minnesota,  to  whom  we  appeal  for  the  ratification 
of  our  action  as  a  Convention." 

I  wish,  Mr.  President,  these  resolutions 
passed  by  this  Convention,  with  such  modi- 
fications as  this  body  may  think  proper  to 
make,  in  order  that  we  may  make  that  appeal 
to  the  proper  tribunal,  which,  in  my  judg- 
ment, have  the  right  to  try  the  legality  of  the 
acts  we  are  here  performing.  The  reason 
which  induced  me  to  offer  these  resolutions 
was,  the  offering  and  adoption  of  resolutions 
in  the  other  end  of  the  Capitol,  by  those  who 
claim  to  call  themselves  a  Constitutional 
Convention,  and  who  say  that  they  will  be 
recognized  by  the  general  government  as 
such.  My  object,  then,  will  be  to  draw  a 
contrast  between  the  Republican  party  and 
the  Democratic  party,  and  to  show,  as  cir- 
cumstances may  require,  the  object  of  the 
Democratic  party  to  be  just  what  it  is  charged 
— to  defeat  the  will  of  the  people,  to  defeat 
the  Constitution  formed  by  this  Convention 
and  to  prevent  Minnesota  from  coming  into 
the  Union  as  a  State.  Those  resolutions  are 
as  follows : 

"  Whereas,  There  is  official  evidence,  from  the 
report  of  the  committee  on  Credentials,  that  there 
is  a  majority  of  the  legally-elected  members  of  the 
Constitutional  Convention  who  claim  and  are  en- 
titled to  seats  in  this  Convention ;  an^, 

"Whereas,  The  members  ascertained  to  be 
legally  elected,  from  the  official  documents  before 
this  Convention,  represents  more  than  sixteen 
hundred  majority  of  the  popular  vote  of  the  Ter- 
ritory; and, 

"Whereas,  There  is  now  a  body  of  men  who 
have  taken  possession  of  one  of  the  halls  of  this 
Capitol,  and  call  themselves  the  Constitutional 
Convention,  without  any  legal  authority  or  right, 
although  some  of  those  connected  with  that  as- 
semblage may  be  entitled  to  seats  in  this  Conven- 
tion, but  who  have  not  seen  proper,  as  yet,  to  pre- 
sent their  credentials,  or  to  attend  the  meeting  of 


288 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Tuesday,  August  4. 


this  body,  since  the  regular  adjournment  of  the 
Convention,  on  Monday,  the  13th  instant ;  there- 
fore, 

"  Sesolved,  That  the  assemblage  of  persons  now- 
occupying  the  Representatives  Hall  of  this  Cap- 
itol, styling  themselves  the  "Constitutional  Con- 
vention," is  without  the  authority  of  law  or  Par- 
liamentary usage,  and  revolutionary  in  its  char- 
acter, and  therefore,  should  not  be  recognized  by 
the  electors  of  this  Territory,  nor  by  the  officers 
of  the  General  or  Territorial  Government." 

Instead  of  appealing  to  the  people  for  the 
rectitude  of  their  acts,  they  now  make  an  ap- 
peal to  the  President  of  the  United  States, 
and  the  heads  of  the  departments. 

"Resolved,  That  a  copy  of  the  above  preamble 
and  resolution,  together  with  a  copy  of  the  report 
of  the  committee  on  Credentials,  be  forwarded  to 
the  President  of  the  United  States,  each  of  the 
heads  of  the  departments  of  the  General  Govern- 
ment, each  of  the  members  of  the  Senate  and 
House  of  Representatives  of  the  United  States, 
and  to  the  Governor,  Secretary,  Marshal,  Librari- 
an, Auditor  and  Treasurer  of  the  Territory  of  Min- 
nesota." 

Now  I  remark  that  these  resolutions  were 
offered  in  the  other  end  of  the  Capitol,  by  a 
government  officer — by  a  man  who  has  re- 
cently been  appointed  a  Judge  of  the  Su- 
preme Court  of  the  Territory  of  Minnesota, 
and  the  fact  of  its  being  offered  by  him  and 
advocated  by  him,  in  my  judgment  indicates 
what  course  the  administration  are  ready  to 
pursue,  what  course  they  will  pursue,  and 
what  decision  they  will  make,  so  far  as  that 
man  is  concerned,  in  reference  to  matters  of 
the  most  vital  importance  to  the  people  of 
this  Territory.  In  the  remarks  which  he 
made  in  advocacy  of  those  resolutions,  let  us 
examine  the  rule  of  decision  wliich  he  laid 
down,  by  which  matters  of  the  most  vital 
importance  are  to  be  adjudicated  upon.  He 
has  asserted  and  laid  it  dowm  as  the  rule  in 
regard  to  the  St.  Anthony  delegates,  that  the 
fact  that  the-  Governor  of  tWs  Territory— a 
government  officer,  one  who  has  no  sympa- 
thies with  nor  relation  to  the  people  of  this 
Territory — by  an  arbitrary  official  act,  re- 
moved the  Register  of  Deeds  for  giving  certi- 
ficates of  election  to  members  of  this  Consti- 
tutional Convention,  decides  the  right  to  scats 
in  this  Convention  of  those  upon  whom  he 
has  adjudicated,  without  having  those  parties 
before  him  at  all— taking  the  responsibility 
and  assuming  the  position  that  bodies  of  this 
character  liave  no  right  to  judge  of  the  quali- 


fications and  right  of  seats,  of  its  members — 
an  assumption  in  violation  of  every  principle 
of  right,  a  violation  of  every  legislative  rule 
that  can  be  found  upon  record  anywhere, 
either  inmonarchial  governments  or  any  other. 
Now  let  us  see  if  I  am  correct  in  charging 
upon  that  officer  the  decision  I  have  stated. 
He  says  referring  to  these  St.  Anthony  dele- 
gates— 

"  How  does  it  happen  that  these  men  assume  to 
come  in  and  deliberate  in  the  Councils  of  the  Con- 
stitutional Convention  of  Minnesota  ?  They  have 
not  been  sent  here  by  the  only  principal  authorized 
to  dispute  them — the  people.  They  have  been  dis- 
carded at  home,  and  why,  then  do  they  assume  to 
sit  there  ?  It  has  been  through  the  trickery  and 
chicanery  of  certain  officials.  It  will  be  said  that 
they  have  prima  facia  the  right  to  take  that  posi- 
tion, because  forsooth,  they  have  received  creden- 
tials from  the  officer  whose  duty  it  is  to  certify  to 
the  members  having  the  greatest  number  of  votes. 
I  answer,  sir,  by  presenting  these  facts.  In  the 
first  place  it  was  so  palpably,  so  manifestly,  wrong, 
that  the  very  members  of  the  opposition  would 
delight  in  the  opportunity — by  a  contest  to  relieve 
themselves  of  the  odium  of  the  position  they  oc- 
cupy and  have  placed  their  party  in,  by  expelling 
those  members  from  that  House." 

And  then  he  alleges  that  there  is  an  answer 
which  is  unanswerable  to  the  claim  that  those 
delegates  had  a  right  to  take  seats  in  this 
Constitutional  Convention.     He  says  : 

"And,  sir,  there  exists  a  perfect  answer  to  the 
prima  facia  character  of  right  claimed  for  these 
credentials,  which  leaves  no  apology  for  the  disre- 
putable position  that  factious  body  have  placed 
themselves  in  by  admitting  them  to  a  seat  among 
them.  It  is  this :  The  people  of  that  District 
were  so  outraged  when  it  was  made  public  that 
their  wishes  as  expressed  through  the  ballot-box, 
had  been  attempted  to  be  defeated  by  an  official  of 
their  own  creation,  that  they  insisted  such  a  man 
should  be  removed  from  office.  Charges  were  pre- 
ferred against  him  for  misconduct  in  office,  before 
the  proper  tribunal ;  this  man  received  a  fair  and 
impartial  hearing.  He  made  his  defence  there  by 
his  attorney,  and  it  was  finally  adjudged  against 
him,  that  he  had  been  guilty  of  official  misconduct ; 
that  ho  had  violated  the  sworn  duties  of  an  officer, 
and  had  attempted  to  subvert  the  will  of  the  peo- 
ple. This  judgment,  I  say,  removes  from  these 
papers  styling  themselves  credentials  upon  their 
face,  all  authority  which  they  might  otherwise  carry 
with  them." 

Such  is  the  rule  of  decision  laid  down  by 
the  recent  appointee  to  the  Supreme  Court  of 
Minnesota.  Under  that  decision  all  that 
would  have  been  necessary  for  them  to  do  in 
order  to  entitle  thom  to  seats  in  this  Conven- 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Tuesday,  August  4. 


289 


tion,  would  have  been  to  come  into  this  body, 
upon  the  day  of  its  organization,  with  the 
judgment  which  the  Governor  pronounced 
against  the  Register,  Ames,  removing  him 
from  office,  produce  it,  and  this  Convention 
would  have  been  bound  to  deprive  the  sitting 
members  from  their  seats  although  they  had 
never  had  a  trial,  and  their  claims  never  passed 
upon  by  the  proper  tribunal. 

But  I  do  not  wish  to  dwell  upon  that  point, 
but  proceed  to  call  the  attention  of  the  Con- 
vention to  another  very  important  feature 
which  appears  in  the  speech  which  he  made 
upon  that  occasion.  He  takes  the  groimd 
that  it  is  the  intention  of  the  Republicans  to 
pass  a  Constitution  right  over  the  heads  of 
the  people.  Then,  sir,  I  take  it  for  granted, 
from  the  position  which  he  assumes  here,  that 
he  is  opposed  to  a  Republican  Constitution. 
He  does  not  say  that  he  is  opposed  to  the 
Republicans  making  a  Constitution,  but  he 
^;ays  that Jthe  Republicans  wished  to  carry 
this  matter,  and  to  form  a  Republican  Consti- 
tution against  the  will  of  the  people.  What 
people  ?  But  I  do  not  wish  to  misrepresent 
his  position,  and  I  will  read  what  he  says  : 

"Mr.  President,  let  me  ask  why  all  this  has  been 
done ;  these  men  have  found,  on  coming  here,  that 
in  order  to  make  out  their  majority,  it  was  neces- 
sary to  do  these  things.  They  have  been  instruct- 
ed from  abroad  that  Minnesota  must  have  a  Re- 
publican Consiitution,  and  in  obedience  to  the  will 
of  their  masters,  they  have,  finding  it  impossible 
to  do  itregularly,  and  having  been  rebuked  through 
the  ballot-box,  they  have  created  the  material  and 
machinery  to  carry  it  over  the  people." 

What  a  trying  scene,  to  see  this  body  as. 
semblcd  here,  and  endeavoring  to  frame  a 
Republican  Constitution,  and  to  carry  it  right 
over  the  heads  of  the  people ! 

My  object,  however,  so  far  as  that  govem- 
tnent  officer  is  concerned,  was  not  materially 
10  take  issue  with  him  upon  any  particular 
point,  but  I  quote  him  to  show  what  his  rule 
of  decision  is  to  be.  Ex-Governor  Gorman, 
and  the  party  to  which  he  belongs,  have 
placed  this  man  and  the  Ex-Governor  upon 
the  stand  in  order  to  testify  to  the  world 
tliat  the  Democratic  members  who  belong  to 
the  Constitutional  Convention  were  in  the 
right  at  the  time  they  left  this  Hall,  and  at 
the  time  they  came  back,  and  went  away 
again.  Now  I  am  sorry  that  I  may  have  to 
allude  to  some  things  which  I  would  gladly 
37 


avoid.  There  are  two  or  three  ways  by 
which  you  may  destroy  the  evidence  of  a  wit- 
ness. One  is  by  showing  that  he  contradicts 
himself.  He  has  laid  down  the  rule  by 
which  our  acts  as  a  Constitutional  Convenr 
tion  are  to  be  judged,  and  he  has  stated  that 
we  are  to  be  judged  by  our  acts.  Now,  I 
wish  to  apply  the  same  rule  to  him  and  his 
party  which  he  wishes  to  apply  to  us.  Now, 
if  upon  the  application  of  that  rule,  his 
works,  and  the  works  of  the  party  with  which 
he  acts,  gives  the  lie  to  their  profession,  wo 
conclude  that  when  they  make  a  statement, 
they  state  what  is  palpably  untrue.  Now,  I 
propose,  in  the  next  place,  to  show  by  the  ev- 
idence of  a  member  of  that  Convention,  by 
the  name  of  Sibley,  that  what  ex-Governor 
GoBMAN  stated  in  regard  to  the  objects  which 
they  had  in  view  in  coming  into  this  Hall,  is 
palpably  false.  Then  I  expect  to  show  by 
the  Pioneer  &  Democrat,  that  ex-Govemor 
GoBJiAN  is  unworthy  of  credit  in  any  commu- 
nity, in  any  Court  of  Justice,  or  before  any 
body  of  men.  Now  if  I  succeed  in  that 
point,  then,  so  &r  as  the  testimony  which  has 
been  sent  out  goes,  it  seems  to  me  that  it  will 
have  but  httle  weight  with  the  people.  Let 
us  see,  then,  what  he  says,  when  speaking 
upon  this  resolution  of  Mr.  Flandbeau's  : 

"  Well,  sir,  what  further  did  we  do  ?  We  came 
into  the  Hall  of  the  House  of  Representatives,  on 
the  13th  of  July  at  12  o'clock  M.  There  was  no 
particular  order  that  we  should  meet  in  that  room 
or  that  we  should  meet  in  this ;  but  a  large  ma- 
jority of  the  delegates  elected  by  the  people  did 
meet  in  that  Hall,  After  the  Democratic  delegates 
come  into  the  Hall,  what  did  they  propose  to  do  ?  " 

Then  he  goes  on  to  show  what  they  decided 
on  in  caucus,  what  was  proposed  to  be  done, 
and  what  they  came  into  the  Hall  to  do. 
Now,  when  they  came  into  this  Hall,  they  did 
not  do,  nor  attempt  to  do,  what  they  had  de- 
cided to  do.  Then,  jud^g  them  by  their 
acts,  we  must  come  to  the  conclusion  that  the" 
statement  which  he  makes  here  is  palpably 
false.     He  goes  on  to  say  : 

"  I  intend  to  tell  the  country  what  their  caucus 
said  they  should  do.  I  intend  to  tell  the  country 
everything  that  was  done  in  caucus  by  the  Demo- 
cratic party  which  is  sitting  here  to-day. 

"  In  reading  the  Statutes  of  the  Territory,  wc 
found  that  the  returns  of  elections  should  be  made 
to  the  Secretary  of  the  Ten-itory,  and  that  the  Sec- 
retary of  the  Territory  was,  perhaps,  the  only  pro- 
per custodian  of  those  returns.    My  reading  of  the 


290 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Tuesday,  August  4. 


Statutes  expressly  requires  that  at  a  given  time 
these  returns  shall  be  made  to  that  ofiBcer — of 
course  this  applies  to  the  election  of  Councillors 
and  Delegates  to  the  Legislature,  and  o£  Delegate 
to  Congress.  That  oflBcer  has  now  the  returns  of 
the  election  of  all  the  members  of  this  Conyention ; 
he  had  them  mostly  then." 

Now,  here  he  admits  that  he  did  not  even 
have  at  the  time  they  came  into  this  Hall  on 
13th  of  July  all  the  returns  of  the  Registers 
of  Deeds  of  the  election  of  delegates  to  this 
Convention. 

"  Well,  sir,  what  did  our  caucus  determine  to 
do  ?  We  passed  a  vote  that  the  Secretary  of  the 
Territory  should  go  into  the  Hall  of  the  House  of 
Representatives  at  the  proper  hour, 

— That  proper  hour  he  admits  to  be  12 
o'clock  M. — 

and  call  the  Convention  to  order — not  call  any 
member  to  the  chair,  nor  by  any  trick  try  to  take 
the  advantage  of  the  adversary,  but  proceed  and 
call  the  Council  Districts  in  the  order  in  which  they 
stand.  Every  man  before  me  will  bear  me  out  in 
saying  that  this  was  the  course  which  the  party  I 
am  now  addressing  expected  to  pursue  when  we 
came  into  that  Hall. 

"When  we  had  called  the  Convention  to  order, 
and  the  Council  Districts  had  been  called,  it  was 
supposed  that  in  the  ordinary  course  of  parliamen- 
tary proceedings,  he  would,  like  the  clerk  of  the 
House  of  Representatives  in  Congress,  have  a  list 
of  members  made  out.  And  why  should  lie  have 
a  list?    Because  the  returns  were  made  to  him." 

He  admitted  a  little  while  ago,  that  the 
returns  were  not  all  made  to  him. 

"  And  who  elSe  should  have  the  list?  Certainly 
not  Mr.  North,  a  delegate  from  Rice  county.  It 
was  perfectly  proper  and  regular  that*  the  Secre- 
tary should  have  such  a  list.  We  therefore  ex- 
pected when  we  came  into  the  Hall,  without  vio- 
lence, without  pistols  in  our  pockets,  without  send- 
ing for  our  neighbors  to  keep  us  from  being 
whipped  by  the  Border  Ruffians  (laughter) ;  that  in 
pursuance  of  the  most  usual  and  regular  course  of 
proceeding,  the  Secretary  would  call  the  first 
Council  District  and  allow  the  members  to  come 
forward  and  present  their  credentials,  then  the 
second,  third,  fourth,  fifth,  sixth,  seventh, — yes, 
sir,  call  the  Seventh  Council  District,  too — and  I 
shall  have  something  to  say  of  the  rights  of  the 
delegates  from  that  District  presently.  We  in- 
tended to  proceed  thus  with  the  Districts  until 
they  had  all  been  called,  when,  if  a  quorum  ap- 
peared, tho  Convention  would  be  ready  to  transact 
business. 

"  Having  proceeded  to  this  point,  the  intention 
expressed  in  our  caucus,  was,  inasmuch  as  several 
of  our  members  had  nof  come  in,  knowing  that  in 
consequence  of  this  alarm  which  had  been  sounded 
tbroagbout  the  Territory,  calling  on  the  Republi- 


can Delegates  to  be  here ;  they  were  here,  armed 
cap-a-pie,  and  that  having  slept  upon  their  arms 
they  were  expecting  some  great  development.  If, 
on  calling  the  roll,  it  resulted  as  we  expected,  that 
the  Republicans  had  the  majority,  we  intended  to 
appeal  to  their  justice  to  adjourn,  and  not  organ- 
ize until  our  men  should  have  had  time  to  come  in, 
although  we  had  reason  to  believe  the  appeal 
would  be  like  the  appeal  made  to  sinners  a  thou- 
sand times,  and  Avith  about  the  same  eflFect." 

Now  I  wish  gentlemen  to  bear  that  last  re- 
mark in  mind,  so  that  they  may  see,  when  I 
come  to  read  the  Pioneer  and  Democrat^  if 
Ex-Governor  Gorman  has  not  probably  had 
more  appeals  in  vain,  and  appeals  to  one  of 
the  greatest  sinners  without  effect,  than  almost 
any  man  who  has  lived  since  the  time  of  the 
destruction  of  Sodom  and  Gomorrah.  (Laugh- 
ter.) 

"This  was  the  course  marked  by  the  Democrats 
in  caucus  to  pursue,  as  forty-four  of  the  men  here 
present  will  bear  me  witness.  We  had  no  arms, 
no  pistols,  no  bowie-knives,  no  border  ruffian 
revolver  party  to  take  possession  of  the  Capitol  at 
midnight.  We  had  no  scenes  in  contemplation 
such  as  have  fiu-nished  food  for  the  Republican 
party  during  the  last  eighteen  months.  Nothing 
of  the  kind,  we  were  resolved,  should  emanate 
from  us,  but  the  course  we  proposed  to  pursue 
was  precisely  what  would  have  been  pursued  by 
any  deliberative  parliamentary  body  in  the  coun- 
try. Every  man  before  me  knows  this  was  our 
intention.  If  we  could  secure  an  adjournment 
until  our  men  could  come  in,  of  course  we  should 
have  been  glad  to  do  so." 

Now  Sir,  judging  them  by  their  acts  and 
not  by  a  word  of  the  Ex-Governor,  how  does 
the  matter  stand  ?  Did  they  attempt  to  do  a 
single  thing  which  he  said  they  had  deter- 
ihined  in  caucus  to  do,  and  for  which  they 
came  here  to  do,  vrith  the  single  exception  of 
calling  the  Convention  to  order?  Did  they 
attempt  to  ask  for  credentials?  Did  they 
then  undertake  to  call  the  Districts  ?  Did  they 
attempt  a  temporary  organization  at  all? 
They  did  not.  Not  the  first  step  was  taken 
toward  it.  Then  we  say,  when  the  declara- 
tion is  made  by  him  that  they  came  here  for 
that  purpose  and  did  not  attempt  to  consum- 
mate it,  but  did  do  something  else,  we  have 
the  right  to  say  that  tho  statement  is  know- 
ingly false,  and  is  made  for  public  capital. 
By  their  words  we*  are  to  judge  them : 

"  This  is  all  we  asked  here.  Wo  only  asked 
that  when  we  came  into  that  Hall,  the  roll  should 
be  called ;  those  members  whose  seats  were  con- 
tested should  stand  aside  until  we  had  ascertained 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Ttjesday,  August  4. 


291 


whether  a  quorum  was  present,  and  then  that 
their  cases  should  be  determined  according  to  the 
law  and  facts." 

Now,  that  is  all  any  man  would  have  asked 
— all  that  would  have  been  proposed  by  tliis 
Convention  had  they  come  in  and  made  ob- 
jection to  members  whose  seats  they  proposed 
to  contest.  How  would  the  matter  have  stood 
then  ?  They  had  the  minority,  and  were  not 
prepared  to  go  into  an  organization,  and  they 
intended  to  ask  for  an  adjournment  in  order 
to  give  time  for  their  absent  members  to  be 
present.  Now,  how  long  did  it  take  them  to 
organize  after  they  left  and  had  the  matter  in 
their  own  hands,  with  all  the  bogus  delegates 
to  procm-e?  How  long  did  it  take  them  to 
satisfy  themselves  that  they  had  a  sufficient 
nimiber  to  organize  ?  I  believe  from  about 
Tuesday  the  14th,  until  near  two  weeks  from 
that  day.  Did  they  intend  to  ask  this  Con- 
vention to  remain  here  all  that  time  unorgan- 
ized, for  the  purpose  of  permitting  their  mem- 
bers to  come  in  ?  They  would  not  dare  tell 
the  people  they  did.  Hence  we  come  to  the 
conclusion  that  the  assertion  which  has  been 
made  time  and  again  must  be  imtrue,  and 
that  they  xame  in  here  for  the  purpose  of 
making  a  motion  to  adjourn,  and  leaving  this 
Hall,  thereby  supposing  that  they  could  pre- 
vent the  organization  of  this  Convention. 
This  is  all  charged  upon  them. 

"  Well,  sir,  Mr.  Chase,  the  Secretary  of  the 
Territory,  walked  up  to  the  chair  first  and  called 
the  Convention  to  order;  then  Mr.  North,  precisely 
in  keeping  with  the  position  of  that  body  of  men 
who  had  remaiaed  in  that  hall  from  midnight  un- 
til day,  and  from  day  until  12  o'clock  at  noon,  to 
prevent  the  Border  Rufiians  from  forestalling  them 
and  performing  any  act  by  which  they  should  get 
the  advantage,  also  came  into  the  desk,  and  made 
some  motion,  which  he  himself  put  to  the  Conven- 
tion." 

Now,  sir,  what  are  the  facts  in  regard  to 
that  matter  ?  They  did  come  into  this  Hall, 
and  a  large  proportion  of  those  who  are  now 
members  of  this  Convention  were  in  their 
seats.  Did  the  Democratic  members,  when 
they  came  in,  take  seats  as  men  who  came 
for  the  purpose  of  organizing  a  Convention  ? 
No,  sir !  They  came  rushing  in  as  a  body,  and 
the  very  first  thing  done  by  them  was  to 
move  to  adjourn,  and  the  next  thing  they  did 
was  to  leave  the  Hall.  Now,  was  that 
according  to  parliamentary  usage?  Who 
ever  heard  of  a  parliamentary  or  legislative 


assembly  acting  in  that  manner?  How  do 
men  usually  assemble  upon  occasions  of  this 
kind  ?  Why,  in  the  morning  as  soon  as  the 
doors  are  open,  men  begin  to  drop  in  one 
after  another,  exchange  salutations,  and  by  the 
time  the  hoiir  arrives  for  organization,  mem- 
bers are  in  their  seats.  They  are  not  out  in 
some  secret  caucus ;  they  are  not  devising 
ways  and  means  by  which  they  can  defeat  an 
organization.  They  come  in  like  men  and 
take  their  seats  promiscuously  through  the 
house.  How  did  these  men  come  in  ?  In  a 
parliamentary  manner?  They  admit  that 
they  came  in  as  a  body.  They  say  they  had 
a  right  to.  Who  disputes  the  right  ?  But 
we  say  it  was  unparliamentary.  No  instance 
of  the  kind  can  be  found  upon  record.  They 
did  make  a  motion  to  adjourn.  They  did  it 
while  many,  if  not  all,  of  their  members  were 
standing.  That  was  not  exactly  parliamen- 
tary. I  believe,  the  parliamentary  usage  is 
to  rise  from  a  seat  and  address  the  Chair. 
Did  the  mover  upon  that  occasion  arise  and 
address  the  Chair  ?  And  were  the  members 
sitting,  when  he  did  it  ?  Most  imdoubtedly 
not. 

He  went  on,  however,  in  his  statement, 
and  read  from  Jefferson's  Manual,  to  show 
that  a  motion  to  adjourn  is  always  in  order, 
and  that  no  motion  could  properly  be  put 
until  that  motion  was  decided.  I  have 
always  heard  that  when  a  person  vmdertakes 
to  tell  what  is  imtrue,  he  is  very  swce  to  leave 
some  point  untold,  and  thereby  exposes  his 
folly. 

Now  I  will  read  from  Jefferson's  Manual, 
page  39 : 

"When  the  Speaker  is  seated  in  his  Chair,  every 
member  is  to  sit  in  his  place." 

Now,  when  Mr.  Chase  took  the  Chair, 
according  to  all  parliamentary  usage,  every 
member  should  be  sitting  in  his  place.  Where 
were  they  ?  Together  in  a  body,  and  stand- 
mg  upon  their  feet.  It  was  unparliamentary. 
Again  Jefferson's  Manual,  page  forty-eight, 
says: 

"  When  a  motion  has  been  made,  it  is  not  to  be 
put  to  question  or  debate  until  it  is  seconded ;  it  is 
then,  and  not  till  then,  in  possession  of  the  House." 

Now,  I  understand  a  motion  is  not  before 
a  body  at  all  for  action,  until  it  has  been 
seconded.  Now,  will  this  gentieman  who 
made  the  motion,  and  will  the  Chairman  who 


292 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Tuesday,  August  4. 


was  governed  by  sh'ict  parliamentary  usage, 
dare  to  say  that  the  motion  to  adjourn  was 
seconded?  They  would  not  dare  to  do  it. 
Then  there  was  no  motion  before  the  House 
aliill  and  he  had  no  right  to  put  it.  If  he 
did,  it  was  in  violation  of  every  parliamentary 
usage.  "  It  is  then,  and  not  till  then,  in  pos- 
session of  the  House."  Until  seconded  it  is 
not  before  the  Assembly,  and  it  was  abso- 
lutely null  and  void.* 

Now  it  is  said  that  some  men's  memories 
are  short.  It  is  astonishing  that  they,  being 
such  strict  parliamentarians,  and  intending  to 
rely  strictly  on  such  parliamentary  usage,  to 
sustain  them  in  the  act  they  perpetrated,  did 
not  think  to  get  some  man  to  swear  that  he 
seconded  the  motion.  They  will  in  all  proba- 
bility plead  in  excijse  of  that,  that  they  had 
not  time.  But  they  have  seen  fit  to  rest 
their  case  upon  the  broad  foundation  that 
everything  they  did  was  strictly  parliamen- 
tary, and  that  the  question  was  properly  put 
at  the  proper  time,  and  properly  carried. 

I  have  now  attempted  to  show  that  thek 
acts,  when  they  came  in  here,  contradict  the 
assertion  the  Ex-Governor  made.  Now  let 
me  introduce  a  piece  of  evidence  from  the 
speech  of  Mr.  Sibley.    He  says : 

"  When  they  went  into  that  Convention,  know- 
ing that  several  Democratic  Delegates  were  absent, 
they  desired  to  adjourn ;  but  if  they  had  been 
voted  down,  unjust  as  I  should  have  considered 
the  conduct  of  the  opposition,  I  for  one  should 
have  submitted." 

Here  Mr.  Sibley  says  that  when  they  came 
in  here  they  desired  to  adjourn,  and  if  they 
had  been  voted  down,  he,  for  one,  would  have 
submitted.  Here  Mr.  Sibley  is  corroborated 
by  the  fiicts.  Gobman  is  contradicted  by 
Sibley,  and  contradicted  by  the  facts  as  they 
occurred.  Which  shall  we  beheveV  Shall 
we  believe  Gorman,  when  he  attempts  to 
send  out  his  statement  of  facts  to  the  world, 
and  which  he  wishes  to  be  relied  upon,  or 
shall  we  believe  Sibley  wlio  is  corroborated 
by  the  facts  themselves':"  According  to 
Sibley,  they  came  in  here  for  the  purpose  of 
adjourning.  That  is  what  they  attempted  to 
do  when  they  did  come  in.  Therefore,  I  say 
tbat  the  remarks  of  Sibley  prove  that 
Uobman's  remarks  were  untrue,  and  tho  facts 
prove  them  so. 

Well,  Ex-Governor  Gobuan  goes  on  to  tell 


us  of  the  principles  of  the  Democratic  party, 
I  propose  to  bestow  a  few  moments'  attention 
to  that,  and  then  conclude.    He  says : 

"  Does  the  Democratic  party  propose  to  extend 
the  institution  of  Slavery  ?  Not  a  single  member 
sitting  in  this  Constitutional  Convention  but  that 
would  rejoice  to  see  the  voice  of  the  people  stop 
the  progress  of  Slavery  where  it  is.  The  Demo- 
cratic party  is  not  a  pro-slavery  party  in  the 
Northern  States." 

I  want  gentleman  to  notice  that  particular 
expression — the  "  Northern  States  " — because 
before  I  get  through,  I  intend  to  show  what 
the  Democratic  party  is  in  the  Southern 
States.  "  The  Democratic  party  is  not  a  pro- 
"  slavery  party  in  the  Northern  States." 
No  North,  no  South,  no  East,  no  West,  but  a 
Union  party ! 

"They  are  in  favor  of  having  free  territory 
wherever  it  can  be  done  by  the  legitimate  and 
constitutionally  expressed  voice  of  the  people.  Our 
doctrine  here  now  is,  and  we  will  embrace  it  by  a 
unanimous  vote  of  the  Convention,  that  neither 
slavery  or  involuntary  servitude  shall  exist  within 
the  limits  of  Minnesota,  except  for  crime  whereof 
the  party  has  been  duly  convicted  by  a  jury  of  his 
countrymen.  'We  will  give  the  falsehood  to  the 
declaration  promulgated  by  their  presses  and  their 
speakers  all  over  the  country,  that  we  are  a  pro- 
slavery  party,  by  putting  the  seal  of  condemna- 
tion on  their  brow,  in  the  Constitution  that  will  be 
framed  by  the  Convention." 

Now  here  we  have  the  sentiments  of  the 
Democratic  party,  as  expressed  by  a  member 
of  that  party  in  the  North.  They  occupy 
pretty  much  the  same  position  as  the  Repub- 
lican party  occupy,  when  their  views  are  ex- 
pressed by  their  own  speakers  at  the  Nortli. 
They  are  opposed  to  the  extension  of  slavery, 
only  they  will  put  in  that  peculiar  word  "  con- 
stitutionally." That  is  the  only  difiFerencc. 
They  are  decidedly  and  distinctly  opposed  to 
the  introduction  of  slavery  into  the  Northern 
States.  But  what  are  their  acts  in  Congi-ess  ':• 
Who  was  it  that  introduced,  who  was  it  that 
sustained,  who  was  it  that  passed  the  Kansas- 
Nebraska  bin,  which  introduced  slavery  into 
Kansas  ?  Was  it  not  the  Democratic  party 
of  the  North,  which  the  gentleman  says  is 
opposed  to  the  extension  of  slavery  ':•  Then 
do  not  they  preach  up  free  soil  and  free  ter- 
ritory, when  at  home,  and  do  they  not  when 
thoy  get  to  Congress,  and  when  they  vote  for 
President,  throw  their  influence  continually 
with  the  pro-slavery  party  'i' 
If  that  is  this  sentiment  of  the  Democracy 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Tttesdat,  AuausT  4. 


293 


of  the  North,  let  us  try  for  a  moment  to  as- 
certain how  it  is  that  this  party  in  the  North, 
entertains  the  opinion  which  he  there  expi'ess- 
es,  became  either  the  Democracy  at  the  North 
or  the  Democracy  at  the  South.  Which  is  dis- 
honest— for  they  cannot  pull  together  as  they 
do  in  the  Congi'ess  of  the  United  States,  with- 
out a  sacrifice  of  principle  upon  the  one  side  or 
the  otlier ;  and  I  know  it  is  not  the  Democracy 
of  the  South  that  is  dishonest,  for  they  still  pro" 
mulgate  their  principles  right  straight  ahead. 
It  is  well  that  the  gentleman  put  in  his  words 
"the  Democratic  Party  are  not  a  pro-slavery 
"  party  at  the  North."  He  showed  a  great  deal 
of  ingenuity  upon  that  point,  which  ingenuity 
will  be  pretty  well  expressed  when  I  come  to 
read  from  the  Pioneer  &  Democrat.  I  will 
read  a  declaration  of  sentiment  by  the  Hon. 
M.  Keitt,  a  leading  Democratic  member  of 
Congress  from  South  Carolina.     He  says : 

"The  fountains  of  the  great  deep  of  the  North 
seems  to  me  to  be  broken  up,  and  the  abolition  flood 
rises  higher  and  higher  every  day.  Little  subal- 
tern municipal  elections,  and  the  control  of  cross- 
roads, which  the  opponents  of  Black  Republican- 
ism have  in  some  instances  torn  from  them,  are 
not  noticeable  wrecks  upon  the  waters.  They  have 
the  legislative,  judicial  and  executive  power ;  and 
this  is  all  that  we  at  the  South  are  concerned  about. 
"  I  believe  from  the  signs,  that  the  Demccracy  will 
be  defeated  in  1S60;"  and  while  I  entertain  this 
belief  I  shall  not  conceal  it.  I  believe  that  the 
safety  of  the  South  is  only  in  herself.  The  road  to 
Federal  honors  should  not  be  over  her  rights,  nor 
should  betrayal  and  treachery  be  the  passport  to 
Federal  favor.  My  advice,  then,  to  the  South  is,  to 
have  some — not  absolute — confidence  in  the  Na- 
tional Democratic  party,  and  keep  her  powder  dry. 
The  latter  is  much  more  likely  to  save  her  than  the 
former." 

Now  that  is  the  sentiment  of  a  portion  of 
the  party  with  which  the  northern  Democracy 
continually  act.  Then  it  is  well  for  the  gen- 
man  to  put  in  the  "  Democracy  at  th«  North." 
There  is  a  Southern  Democratic  party,  with 
which  the  gentleman  acts,  and  which  is  ad- 
vising to  "  keep  their  powder  dry,"  because 
that  is  the  last  resort,  having  greater  reliance 
upon  that  than  upon  the  Democracy  of  the 
nation. 

Well,  Mr.  President,  to  show  the  sentiment 
of  that  party  South,  let  us  read  a  few  senti- 
ments as  taken  from  the  Charleston  Mercury, 
given  at  a  celebration  of  the  Fourth  of  July — a 
day  which  ought  to  be  held  sacred  to  every 
American ;  a  day  when  politics,  when  party, 


when  everything  calculated  in  its  nature  and 
tendency  to  harrass  the  feelings  of  one  section 
of  the  country  towards  another,  ought  to  be 
left  entirely  out  of  view ;  a  day  on  which  above 
all  others,  citizens  of  all  portions  of  the  Union 
ought  to  meet  together  as  brethren,  and  lay 
aside  all  political  preferences,  and  spend,  as  it 
were,  a  jubilee.  But  what  did  they  say  upon 
that  day  ? 

"A  Southern  Confederacy. — The  only  reliable 
and  certain  security  of  our  Southern  rights." 

What  will  the  Democracy  of  the  North, 
who  are  always  harping  upon  being  Union 
savers,  say  to  that  ? 

"Las  Casasand  Wilberforce. — The  Spanish  priest 
was  a  statesman — the  British  statesman  a  charla- 
tan." 

"  Tfie  Year  I860.— May  it  toll  the  death-knell  of 
these  United  States — an  union  of  States,  but  not 
of  hearts." 

There  is  a  sentiment  of  the  Democracy  of 
the  South.  How  will  the  Union-saving  Dem- 
ocracy of  the  North  relish  that  ?  There  is 
the  sentiment  of  the  party  with  which  gentle- 
men at  the  other  end  of  the  Capitol  are  acting. 
That  is  the  party  which  calls  themselves  the 
National  party. 

"  Walker  of  Nicaragua  and  Walker  of  Kansas. — 
The  former  a  friend  to  the  South,  the  latter  an  ene- 
my to  the  Constitution." 

Walker,  this  fillibuster,  the  friend  of  the 
South.     What  next  ? 

"  Kansas.— \{  she  is  not  a  Slave  State  it  will  be 
the  fault  of  Walker  and  the  Administration.  Let 
thfe  South  look  to  all  traitors." 

There  is  a  sentiment  for  you,  promulgated 
by  this  Southern  wing  of  the  Democratic 
party.  If  Kansas  is  not  a  slave  State,  it  will 
be  prevented  by  the  treachery  of  the  admin- 
istration. This  looks  very  much  like  the  de- 
claration of  a  party  which  wishes  to  extend 
slavery  beyond  its  present  limits,  and  to  bring 
into  this  confederacy  of  States,  another  slave 
State.     Again — 

"  Butler  and  JBrooks.— The  one  the  stay,  the 
other  the  promise  of  the  State.  The  memories  of 
the  aged  Senator  and  the  young  Representative  in- 
spire us  with  equal  homage." 

Here  follow  some  sentiments  drank  by  the 
■members  of  the  "Boat  Company  No.  4,  15th 
Regiment  of  South  Carolina  MUitia,"  upon  this 
same  Fourth  of  July,  which  show  not  only 
the  sentiment  of  the  South,  when  assembled 
to  celebrate  the  glorious  Fourth,  but  shows  the 
military  spirit  of  that  State,  and  which  per- 
vades the  whole  Democratic  party. 


294 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Tuesday,  August  4. 


"Hon.  P.  S.  Brooks. — Though  dead,  livcth  in 
the  hearts  of  the  sons  of  Carolina." 

"  Gen.  Bonham,  sucessor  to  Brooks. — Able  to 
lash  with  tongue  and  hand  ;  may  he  keep  in  mind 
the  achievement  of  his  predecessor,  and  when  ar- 
gument has  failed,  wipe  out  every  stain  attempted 
to  be  thrown  upon  the  people  or  institutions  of  the 
South,  by  the  magic  of  a  cowJdde." 

"  When  argument  has  failed  " — that  is  the 
Democratic  doctrine — "  wipe  out  every  stain 
''  attempted  to  be  thrown  upon  the  people  or 
"  institutions  of  the  South,  by  the  magic  of  a 
"  cowhide.^''  That  is  one  of  the  planks  engraft- 
ed into  the  great  Democratic  platform.  "When 
argument  has  failed,"  when  the  good  sense  of 
the  people  has  rebuked  them,  then  try  the 
border  ruflBan  power.  It  is  a  prominent  plank 
in  their  platform,  yet  a  plank  which  sometimes 
gets  knocked  out,  and  it  was  the  knocking  out 
of  that  plank  of  the  platform  in  the  last  elec- 
tion, which  causes  the  Democracy  of  Minne- 
sota to-day,  to  occupy  the  ground  which  Caesar 
wished  his  wife  to  occupy — the  back  ground. 

"Slavery — An  institution  which  the  wants  of 
society  keep  in  existence :  negroes  in  the  South, 
and  white  slaves  in  the  North." 

Now  where  is  there  a  Democrat  who  can 
submit  to  act  with  that  party  without  unman- 
ning himself?  "Negroes  in  the  South  and 
white  slaves  in  the  North."  Do  they  mean 
our  laboring  class?  No,  sir!  They  mean 
the  men  who  do  tlie  dirty  work  for  them  in 
politics.  They  call  them  their  slaves,  and 
they  glory  in  the  appellation  of  slaves.  It  is 
glory  enough  for  them  to  be  called  the  slaves  of 
the  South.  Still  I  do  not  know  that  I  should 
take  any  exception  to  that.  If  they  desire 
the  name,  let  them  wear  it. 

"Hon.  L.  M.  Boriham,  Member  of  Congress  from 
Edgefield. — May  he  supply  himself  with  a  cane 
named  after  his  predecessor,  of  sufficient  strength 
and  size  to  beat,  whenever  its  country's  rights 
demand  it,  all  the  Abolitionists  from  the  Govern- 
ment seat  at  Washington. 

That  is  the  gentleman  who  succeeds  Mr. 
Brooks. 

The  Hemp  Crop  of  Kansas— Ought  to  be  applied 
in  a  domestic  way  to  hang  the  Free  State  agitators 
in  the  Territory. 

Now,  sir,  take  these  anti-slavery  opinions  of 
the  North,  as  expressed  by  the  Ex-Governor, 
I  take  the  pro-slavery  sentiment  of  the  South, 
and  see  the  work  acting  with  the  South, 
and  I  say  there  is  no  man  but  must  come  to 
the  conclusion  ibai  either  the   Democratic 


party  North,  or  the  Democratic  party  South 
are  dishonest.  They  cannot  the  one  be  op- 
posed to  slavery,  and  the  other  be  in  favor  of 
it,  when  every  word  and  act  in  Congress,  by 
those  who  adhere  to  the  present  administra- 
tion go  to  sustain  slavery. 

No'iV  I  propose  to  occupy  a  few  moments 
in  reading  a  resolution  which  I  find  in  the 
Pioneer  and  Democrat^  to  sustain  the  position 
I  have  taken,  that  the  object  of  the  assemblage 
in  the  other  end  of  the  Capitol  is  to  defeat 
the  wish  of  the  people  to  come  into  the 
Union  as  a  State.  This  resolution  was  passed 
at  a  meeting  at  St.  Peter — the  county  repre- 
sented by  my  friend,  Mr.  Coggswell — on 
the  twenty-seventh  of  July : 

Resolved,  That  we  cordially  approve  of  the  stand 
against  fraud  and  injustice  which  the  Democratic 
delegation  have  made,  and  that  we  exhort  them  to 
adhere  to  their  position  at  all  hazards,  preferring 
rather  that  we  remain  as  a  Territory,  than  that  the 
odious  features  of  modern  Kepublicanism  shall  be 
thrust  upon  us  in  in  our  fundamental  law  against 
the  expressed  will  of  the  people." 

Now  if  that  is  the  declaration  of  the  Demo- 
cratic party — and  it  is  published  in  the  Pioneer 
and  Democrat,  the  Government  organ  here — 
there  is  an  intention  in  that  party  to  defeat 
our  coming  into  the  Union  as  a  State,  and 
rather  than  let  a  Republican  Constitution  be 
thrust  upon  the  people  of  the  Territory  of 
Minnesota,  they  will  remain  in  the  other  end 
of  the  Capitol  to  defeat  it. 

But  I  promised  to  introduce  an  item  of 
evidence  to  show  that  our  friend.  Governor 
Gorman,  is  unworthy  of  credit.  I  know  tliis 
is  a  very  serious  charge,  but  when  he  brings 
himself  upon  the  witness  stand  to  testify  in 
regard  to  a  matter  of  fact,  he  makes  himself 
a  pubhc  witness,  and  all  men  have  the  right 
to  test  his  character  for  truth  and  veracity. 
I  hold  in  my  hand  the  Pioneer  and  Democrat 
of  March  5th,  1857.  Its  reputation  is  above 
suspicion,  (laughter)  and  hence  I  read  from 
to  it.  The  article  is  headed  "A  Second  Tribute 
His  Excellency,  Governor  Gorman."  It  says : 

"  The  fact  is,  however,  as  certain  as  it  is  singu- 
lar, that  in  spite  of  the  aids  of  your  former  ruptvo 
and  the  general  prosperity;  in  spite  of  the  fact 
that  you  were  a  Democratic  Governor  of  a  Demo- 
cratic people,  and  acting  in  conjunction  with  a 
Democratic  Legislature,  you  came  to  the  close  of 
the  first  session  under  your  administration,  an 
object  of  contempt  among  your  friends,  and  a  de- 
rision among  your  enemies. 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Tuesday,  August  4. 


295 


"  Failing  thus,  as  you  have,  to  impress  yourself 
favorably  upon  the  Democracy  of  this  Territory ; 
failing,  also,  to  create  a  "  Gorman  "  faction  in  the 
party,  which  either  in  point  of  talent  or  number, 
could  claim  the  consideration  of  respectability; 
and  failing,  further,  in  linking  your  name  with  any 
measure  for  the  benefit  of  the  people,  except  as  its 
opponent ;  we  are  frank  to  confess  that  your  pres- 
ent open  alliance  with  the  Black  Republicans  of 
the  Territory  has  occasioned  us  pleasure  and  com- 
misseration ; — of  pleasure  that  the  Democrats  are 
relieved  of  the  burden  of  your  countenance,  and 
of  commisseration  for  the  opposition  in  view  of 
the  incubus  which  is  thus,  in  your  person,  fastened 
upon  them. 

"But  this  alliance,  if  it  does  not  redound  to  your 
credit  as  a  man,  or  to  your  fame  as  Executive,  has 
already  secured  one  of  the  objects  for  which  it  was 
consummated ;  and  the  reproach  can  no  longer  be 
urged  against  your  Excellency,  that  your  adminis- 
tration is  barren  of  even  one  solitary  public  meas- 
ure.   The  bill  for  the  removal  of  the  Capitol  can, 
after  your  retiracy,  be  successfully  pointed  to  in 
vindication  of  the  truth  that  your  Excellency  has 
in  one  instance,  at  least,  left  your  impress  upon 
the  legislation  of  the  Territory.    That  this  measure 
involved  corruption  in  its  passage,  and  must  in- 
volve perjury  in  its  approval  by  your  Excellency, 
does  not  in  the  least  invalidate  the  truth  of  what 
we  have  stated.    ?fo  amount  of  crime  can  altar  the 
fact  of  your  Excellency's  success.    The  fact  may 
be  damning,  but  it  is  no  less  a  fact ;  and  with  a 
man  of  your  Excellency's  temper,  success,  even  if 
it  brings  infamy,  is  more  palatable  than  the  gall- 
ing mortification  of  unvarying  defeat.    Organic 
acts  promise  now  to  be  mere  cobweb  trash,  when 
they  stand  against  the  interests  of  your  pocket 
and  the  demands  of  your  ambition ;  and  the  con- 
summation of  this  act,  if  it  prevents  your  attaining 
celebrity  for  virtue,  will  certainly  insure  you  noto- 
riety for  vice — an  alternative  far  more  congenial 
to  your  Excellency  than  the  burial  of  obscurity, 
which,  otherwise,  must  have  remained  your  inevi- 
table lot.    There  is  a  fitness,  too,  in  the  fact  that 
an  administration,  the  inauguration  of  which  was 
an  afflictive  dispensation  of  Providence,  the  con- 
tinuance of  which  has  been  characterized  by  folly 
and  imbecility,  should  close,  as  your  Excellency's 
bids  fair  to  close,  amid  outrages  upon  the  para- 
mount law,  amid  the  corruption  of  the  legislature, 
and  amid  the  crimes,  and  the  infamy  following  the 
crimes  of  its  ofiicial  head." 
-   Now,   sir,  with    that    evidence  piled  up 
against  the  ex-Governor,  we  will  leave  him 
upon  the  present  occasion,  and  offer  a  few  re- 
marks in  regard  to  the  position  which  the  Re- 
publican party  hold  in  this  country.     It  is 
alleged  by  our  opponents  that  we  are  enemies 
of  the  Union,  and  it  is  the  cry  of  the  Repub- 
lican party  continually, "  dissolve  the  Union." 
The  Republican  party  beg  leave  to  represent 


their  own  sentiments.  What  are  they? 
They  are  opposed  to  extension  of  slavery  to 
the  Territories  belonging  to  the  United  States ; 
and  they  are  opposed  to  the  coming  into  the 
Union  of  any  more  slave  States.  Such  is 
their  position.  But,  say  their  opponents, 
they  are  seeking  to  elevate  the  colored  man  to 
a  level  with  the  white  man. 

Now,  sir,  so  far  as  the  Republican  party  are 
concerned,  they  sympathize  with  suffering 
humanity  everywhere.  Yes,  sir,  with  the 
poor  suffering  imbecile  Democrat ;  they  would 
pick  them  out  of  the  mud,  and  vice  and  de- 
gradation, and,  if  possible,  make  a  man  of 
him ;  they  would,  if  possible,  have  him  change 
his  opinions  and  take  a  different  course,  and 
walk  in  the  road  that  leads  to  honor.  This 
they  have  been  trying  to  do,  and  we  are  hap- 
py to  know  that  very  many  have  left  their 
course  of  sin  and  foUy  and  are  walking  in  the 
high  road  of  Republicanism — and  are  now 
the  staunchest  Republicans,  and  the  strongest 
opposers  of  the  extension  of  slavery,  we  have 
in  all  our  ranks! 

But  we  claim  to  be  emphatically  the  white 
man's  friend.  Look  at  tlie  declaration  con- 
tained in  the  sentiment  of  the  South  :  "  Ne- 
"  groes,  slaves  in  the  South ;  white  men, 
"  slaves  in  the  North."  Now  we  extend  an 
invitation  to  all  countries,  to  every  people,  lan- 
guage and  tongue,  to  come  in  and  join  m  our 
institutions.  They  come  here  to  our  free 
Territories  and  free  States  to  seek  a  home  and 
asylum  from  oppression.  Now  what  do  we 
seek  to  do?  We  seek  to  elevate  free  labor; 
we  seek  to  prevent  the  coming  amongst  us 
and  working  side  by  side  with  the  farmer,  the 
slaves  of  the  South.  We  do  not  ask  them 
to  come  here  to  be  degraded  ;  we  do  not  ask 
them  to  come  here  to  work  with  the  bond 
slave.  We  invite  them  to  come  here  to  en- 
joy our  free  institutions,  to  be  free  men,  and 
to  mix  and  mingle  with  free  men.  That  is 
our  position  as  the  white  man's  friend. 
While  we  sympathize  with  the  blacks,  our 
determination  is  to  protect  the  whites  from 
the  baneful  influences  of  slave  labor.  Our 
acts  prove  that ;  while  their  acts  prove  that 
they  are  for  the  .dissolution  of  the  Union. 
What  did  Brooks  say?  "If  Fremont  was 
"  elected,  he  was  in  favor  of  marching  to  the 
"  Capitol,  seizing  jipon  the  Treasur}^  march- 
"  ing  down  South  and  establishing  a  Southern 


296 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Tuesday,  August  4. 


"  Confederacy ;  of  tearing  to  pieces  the  Con- 
"  stitution  of  the  United  States,  and  tramp- 
"  ling  it  under  foot."  Such  is  the  language 
of  the  South,  and  just  in  keeping  with  that 
declaration  was  the  acts  of  the  minority  here 
on  the  thirteenth  of  last  month.  It  was 
"rule  or  ruin."  They  knew  they  had  not  a 
majority  and  they  were  unwilling  that  the 
majority  should  rule.  They  supposed  they 
had  adjourned  the  Convention,  and  they 
marched  off  as  Brooks  marched  off"  with  the 
Treasury,  but  poor  mistaken  men,  they  left 
the  Treasury  behind.  It  reminds  me  of  what 
Fremont  told  a  Southern  man,  who  said  if  he, 
Fremont,  were  elected  he  should  leave  the 
Union.  "  AVell,  sir,"  said  Fremont,  "  I  sup- 
pose you  will  leave  the  State  behind."  They 
left  the  Convention  ,but  they  left  the  Hall  be- 
hind, and  they  left  a  majority  of  members. 

Now,  sir,  in  framing  a  Republican  Consti- 
tution, our  appeal  is  not  to  government  offi- 
cers and  heads  of  departments,  but  to  the 
people  to  sustain  us.  While  they  go  to 
Washington  to  get  sympathy,  we  go  to  the 
people  and  lay  the  facts  before  them.  If 
they  sustain  us,  well  and  good — if  they  con- 
demn us,  why  then  we  are  condemned.  But 
we  are  willing  to  go  to  the  people  with  our 
Republican  Constitution,  and  with  no  other 
Constitution  can  we  come  into  the  Union. 

Thanking  the  Convention  for  their  indul- 
gence, I  will  resume  my  seat. 

Mr.  NORTH.  Mr.  President,  if  ther«  is 
time,  before  the  Convention  adjourn,  I  would 
like  to  make  a  few  remarks  on  the  resolutions 
which  have  been  called  up,  and  especially  up- 
on that  offered  by  the  President  of  this  Con- 
vention, alluding  to  the  intention  of  the  Dem- 
ocratic Convention  in  the  other  end  of  the 
Capitol  to  keep  out  of  the  Union,  if  possible, 
the  State  of  Minnesota,  unless  it  is  to  come 
in  Democratic.  But  before  proceeding  to 
this,  I  wish  [to  present  a  few  points  of  con- 
trast between  the  Republicans  entirely  com- 
posing this  Convention — the  Constitutional 
Convention  of  Minnesota — and  the  Demo- 
cratic caucus  that  left  this  Convention  on  the 
thirteenth  of  July,  and  have  since  assembled 
from  day  "to  day  in  the  other  end  of  the  Cap- 
itol. 

Ist.  The  Republicans  Ist.  The  Democrats 
have  fifty-four  dolc^^atos    have     but     forty-three 


with  credentials  that  are 
unquestioned. 


have  but  lorty-tn 
with  unquestionable  ( 
dentials. 


2d.  The  Republicans 
have  fifty-nine  members 
in  actual  attendance  with 
cfedentials. 


3d.  The  Republicans 
refused  to  organize  the 
Convention  at  12  o'clock 
at  night,  and  only  watch- 
ed the  Democrats  to  pre- 
vent them  from  doing  it, 
as  they  once  did  in  the 
Ohio  Legislature  under 
Got.  Medary's  lead. 

4th.  The  Republicans 
laid  no  plans  to  defeat 
an  organization  of  the 
Convention  on  the  first 
day  of  the  session. 


5th.  The  Republicans 
with  fifty-six  delegates, 
did  organize  the  Con- 
vention on  the  first  day 
of  the  session,  and  went 
on  with  business  in  the 
Hall  designed  for  the 
meeting  of  the  Conven- 
tion. 

6th.  The  Republicans 
presented  their  certifi- 
cates of  election,  and 
were  sworn  in  on  the 
13th  of  July,  the  first 
day  of  the  session. 

7th.  The  Republicans 
had  no  credentials  to  no- 
tice but  those  that  were 
presented  by  members 
then  present. 


8th.  The  Republicans 
have  none  in  their  num- 
bers who  are  ineligible 
to  the  office  of  delegate. 


9th.  The  Republican 
delegates  all  reside  with- 
in the  Districts  from 
which  they  were  elected, 
as  required  by  law. 


10th.  The  Republicans 
held  no  caucus  on  the 
Sabbath. 


2d.  The  Democrats,  at 
most,  have  but  fifty-four 
on  the  list.  And  no  one 
can  tell  how  many  are  in 
attendance,  for  want  of 
calling  the  roll.      ' 

3d.  The  Democrats 
laid  their  plans  to  organ- 
ize the  Convention  at  12 
o'clock  at  night ;  but 
were  prevented  by  the 
vigilance  of  the  Repub- 
licans. 


4th.  The  Democrats, 
by  a  trick,  tried  to  defeat 
such  organization,  and 
run  away  from  the  Con- 
vention as  it  was  about 
to  organize ;  and  in  less 
than  a  minute  after  en- 
tering the  Hall. 

5th.  The  Democrats 
left  the  place  designated 
for  the  Convention,  and 
for  two  weeks  did  no- 
thing. 


6th.  The  Democrats 
did  not  report  on  their 
credentials  until  the  23d 
day  of  July ;  and  were 
not  sworn  in  until  the 
27  th. 

7th.  The  Democrats 
reported  on  the  crcdcu- 
tisus  of  the  Pembina 
members,  at  the  very 
hour  when  those  mem- 
bers were  taking  dinner 
at  Little  Falls,  140  miles 
from  St.  Paul,  and  sev- 
eral days  before  their 
arrival  at  the  Capitol. 

8th.  The  Democrats 
have  three  United  States 
officers,  who,  by  the  laws 
of  the  Territory,  arc  in- 
eligible to  the  office  of 
delegate  to  the  Consti- 
tutional Convention. 

9th.  Five  of  the  Pem- 
bina Democratic  dele- 
gates reside  outside  of 
the  District  from  which 
they  profess  to  have 
been  elected  ;  four  of 
them  from  beyond  the 
line  of  the  State,  and 
the  fifth  being  from  Min- 
neapolis, and  never  hav- 
ing lived  within  five 
hundred  miles  of  his 
pretended  constituency 
— all  of  them  by  law 
disqualified  for  seats  in 
the  Convention. 

10th.  The  Democrats 
held  a  caucus  on  Sunday 
evening,  which  lasted 
'till  midnight,  and  then 
their  piety  was  shocked 
because  the  Republicans 
went  to  the  Capital  too 
early  on  Monday  morn- 
ing. 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Tuesday,  August  4. 


297 


11th.     J.      W.     XORTH 

called  the  Convention  to 
order  at  the  written  re- 
quest of  a  majority  of 
me  whole  Convention. 


11th.  Mr.  Secretary 
Chase  attempted  to  in- 
terrupt this  proceeding 
by  calling  the  Conven- 
tion to  order  in  opposi- 
tion to  the  will  of  the 
majority. 

12th. "Mr.  Chase  was 
not  a  proper  person  to 
call  the  Convention  to 
order;  not  being  a  le- 
gally elected  member — 
having  no  certificate  of 
election,  and  not  being 
eligible  to  the  ofiBce. 

13th.  On  the  contrary, 
the  precedents  in  other 
States  condemn  in  all 
respects  the  course  pur- 
sued by  the  Democrats. 

1-tth.  The  Democrats 
pretended  to  adjourn 
when  there  was  no  or- 
ganization to  be  ad- 
journed. 

15th.  The  Democrats 
on  the  first  day  had  no 
President  to  preside  nor 
Secretary  to  record  their 
proceedings  —  and  no 
proceeding  to  record. 

16th.  The  Democrats 
have  uo  record  to  show 
who  of  their  number 
were  present  for  the  first 
two  weeks;  they  never 
having  called  the  roll. 
And  1  am  not  aware  that 
they  have  called  it  to 
this  day. 

17th.  The  Democrats 
none  of  them  were  sworn 
in  until  the  •27th  of  July, 
and  then  they  carefullv 
avoided  calling  the  roll, 
so  as  to  show  how  many 
of  their  number  were 
absent. 

The  Convention  was  called  to  order,  by 
calling  Mr.  Galbbaith  to  the  Chair. 

Mr.  Galbbaith  being  the  only  person  ap- 
pointed to  the  Chair,  was  the  only  one  to  en- 
tertain motions  to  adjourn,  or  any  other  mo- 
tioDS. 

Mr.  Chase  having  no  certificate  of  election 
was  only  a  disturber  of  the  Convention,  and 
his  right  to  be  there  at  all  was  not  recognized 
by  the  majority  and  could  not  be  legally, 
until  he  had  in  some  way  shown  himself  enti- 
tled to  a  seat  in  the  body,  much  less  his  right 
to  call  the  Convention  to  order  against  the 
express  wish  of  a  majority  of  the  whole  num- 
ber entitled  to  seats. 

As  no  certificates  were  presented  by  the 
minority,  and  as  they  did  not  wait  to  com- 
plete a  preliminary  organization,  and  had  no 
Secretary,  there  is  no  legal  means  of  know- 
ing how  many  of  them  were  present — whether 
indeed  any  of  them  were  there — for  they 
38 


12th.  J.  W.  North 
was  a  proper  person  to 
call  the  Convention  to 
order,  being  a  legally 
elected  member  with  a 
certificate  of  election. 


13th.  The  precedents 
in  other  States  sustain 
in  all  respects  the  course 
taken  by  the  Republi- 
cans. 

14th.  The  Republicans 
did  not  adjourn  until 
they  had  an  organized 
body  to  adjourn. 

15th.  The  Republicans 
had  a  President  to  pre- 
side and  a  Secretary  to 
record  their  first  day's 
proceedings. 

16th.  The  Republicans 
have  a  record  to  show 
just  who  were  present 
every  day  from  the  first 
day  of  the  session. 


•  17th.  The  Republican 
members  were  ail  sworn 
in  on  the  13th  of  July, 
the  first  day  of  the  ses- 
sion, and  their  records 
show  how  many  were 
sworn  in. 


!  have  no  record  of  their  proceedings  of  that 
I  day. 

j  Under  such  circumstances  it  was  impossi- 
ble that  they  could  have  a  legal  adjournment 
of  their  own  number,  to  another  day ;  even  if 
they  had  been  there  alone,  for  they  had  no 
body  to  adjourn.  It  could  not  be  properly 
known  that  any  portion  of  the  Convention 
Vere  there  without  some  list  of  names  or  the 
production  of  certificates.  This  should  have 
been  ascertained  before  any  attempt  to  ad- 
journ. Besides  if  they  had  a  proper  adjourn- 
ment, they  had  no  Secretary  to  record  it,  and 
therefore  no  proper  evidence  of  such  fact. 
Nor  can  they  properly  have  anything  on  their 
records  to  show  whether  they  went  into  the 
Representatives'  Hall  on  the  13th,  as  a  Con- 
vention or  as  a  democratic  caucus.  From  their 
conduct  it  appeared  like  a  caucus ;  and  the 
fifty-six  members  of  the  Constitutional  Con- 
vention paid  no  attention  to  their  manoeuvres, 
but,  in  obedience  to  duty,  proceeded  to  an 
organization. 

In  the  face  of  these  fiicts,  the  minority 
claim  to  have  legally  adjourned,  and  even 
have  the  impudence  to  assert  that  they  not 
only  adjourned  themselves,  but  that  they  also 
adjourned  the  majority  who  never  recognized 
their  authority  in  any  respect.  As  weU  might 
any  rowdy  in  the  street  rush  in  and  adjourn 
the  Convention  after  its  permanent  organiza- 
tion, as  for  Chase  (who  held  no  credentials,) 
to  attempt  to  do  it  in  the  preliminary  organi- 
zation. The  claim  is  too  ridiculous  for  sane 
men  to  assert  for  a  moment,  and  none  would 
think  of  doing  it,  except  on  the  princi- 
ple that  drowning  men  catch  at  straws. 

In  order  to  make  anything  of  this  famous 
adjournment,  which  seems  to  be  the  only  hair 
on  which  they  hang,  it  must  of  course  be 
claimed  that  Chase  was  Chairman  of  the 
meeting,  and  authorized  to  entertain  motions. 
But  let  us  inquire  by  what  right,  if  at  all,  he 
held  this  prerogative. 

It  was  first  claimed  that  he  had  a  right  by 
virtue  of  his  oflBce  as  Secretary.  When  they 
found  that  all  precedents  foiled  them,  they 
gave  this  up. 

They  next  claimed  that  as  a  matter  of 
"  courtesy,  this  prerogative  should  be  extended 
"  to  him."  But  if  Mr.  Chase,  without  a  cer- 
tificate of  election,  can,  on  a  claim  of  courtesy, 
take  away  the  rights  of  delegates  who  have 


298 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Tuesday,  August  4. 


certificates,  and  against  the  express  will  of  a 
majority,  intrude  himself  upon  them  and 
adjourn  theu'  body,  how  many  other  govern- 
ment oflBcials  might  claim  the  same  courtesy, 
and  by  virtue  of  it,  exercise  the  same  control  ? 

There  is  no  evidence  that  any  number  of 
the  delegates  extended  to  Chase  this  cour- 
tesy, but  it  is  certain  that  fifty-six  delegates^ 
then  present  did  not. 

I  have  not  thought  it  best,  Mr.  Pbesident, 
to  spend  much  time  heretofore,  in  talking 
upon  this  subject,  preferring  rather  to  leave 
the  consideration  of  it  until  the  time  should 
arrive  when  we  might  have  all  the  positions 
taken  by  those  gentleman  who  so  unceremo- 
niously left  this  body ;  and  I  think  we  have, 
by  this  time,  pretty  fully  ascertamed  their  po- 
sition. I  think  we  have  learned  pretty  nearly 
all  the  sham  excuses  they  have  to  give  out  by 
way  of  attempting  to  justify  themselves  for  so 
unceremoniously  leaving  this  body.  I  will, 
as  briefly  as  possible,  advert  to  one  or  two 
of  their  speeches,  and  notice  a  few  points. 

It  is  not  a  little  singular  to  see,  with  what 
unanimity  they  resort  to  every  manoeuvre  and 
subterfuge,  and  attempt  to  throw  dust  and 
mystify,  so  as  to  prevent,  if  possible,  the  real 
facts  of  the  case  from  coming  before  the  peo- 
ple, for  their  impartial  judgment.  It  is  a 
little  amusing  to  see,  in  cx-Gov.  Goeman's 
speech,  the  very  great  anxiety  he  seems  to 
feel,  to  have  the  people  understand,  that  the 
Republicans  are  a  dangerous  set  of  men — 
perfectly  terrible — the  chief  points  he  makes 
being  the  expression  of  his  fears  of  the  out- 
rages the  Republicans  would  commit,  if  the 
Democrats  did  not  prevent  them  by  depriving 
them  of  an  opportunity.  It  is  really  amu- 
sing! 

Near  the  commencement  of  his  speech,  the 
Ex-Governor  says: 

"  The  scenes  which  have  transpired  in  the  Ter- 
ritories of  this  Union  within  the  last  eighteen 
months,  or  two  years,  have  given  cause — I  think 
just  cause — of  alarm  for  the  perpetuity  of  the  insti- 
tutions of  our  country." 

Knowing  the  partiality  of  the  Ex-Governor, 
for  certain  peculiar  institutions,  it  might  be 
well  to  inquire  what  institutions  the  Republi- 
cans are  opposed  to,  for  it  is  the  perpetuity 
of  those  he  seems  to  be  alarmed  about.  I 
notice,  on  the  other  page,  he  alludes  to  it 
again: 


"  They  belong,  he  says,  to  a  party  which  has  no 
sympathy  for  the  institutions  of  the  South  as  they 
view  them." 

A  little  further  down  he  says : 

"No  sir,  go  where  you  will,  and  these  men  will 
tell  you  that,  whatsoever  calamities  may  befal  this 
Union,  the  institution  ofslavery  shall  never  extend 
one  inch  beyond  where  it  is  now." 

In  two  or  three  other  places,  I  notice  simi- 
lar allusions  to  the  horrible  fact  that  Republi- 
cans will  oppose  the  peculiar  institution,  be- 
traying the  anxiety  he  is  in  to  alarm  the 
country  about  their  fearful  designs,  and  their 
being  opposed,  actually  opposed  to  the  further 
extension  of  slavery.  But  terrible  as  the 
accusation  is,  to  this  we  plead  guilty.  Wo 
are,  decidedly,  calmly  and  firmly  opposed  to 
the  further  extension  of  slavery.  The  Ex- 
Governor  has  apprehended  us  right.  But  I 
cannot  tliink  the  fearful  vision  has  really 
alanned  him  quite  so  much  as  it  would  seem. 

In  other  parts  of  the  speech,  he  would 
appear  to  have  the  idea  constantly  before  him, 
that  the  Republican  members  of  this  Conven- 
tion, and  the  party  in  general,  have  a  strong 
disp(^ition  for  bloodshed ;  that  we  were  fierce 
and  anxious  for  a  fight,  in  which  we  migljt 
gain  something — I  don't  know  exactly  what. 
I  will  read : 

"I  want  the  country  to  know  why  we  did  it.  If 
we  had  gone  into  the  Hall  then,  it  would  have  been 
said,  we  came  there  to  take  it  by  force.  Our  op- 
ponents had  circulated  the  report,  that  we  intend- 
ed to  take  it  by  force.        *        *        *        »       « 

"Mr.  President,  that  is  exactly  what  they  want- 
ed to  do.  They  wanted  violence.  They  wanted 
food  for  fanaticism.  They  wanted  the  material  for 
another  campaign.  It  would  have  suited  ther  pur- 
pose if  there  had  been  violence  and  bloodshed. 

"Well  sir,  in  our  caucus,  we  resolved  to  be 
peaceable,  and  to  commit  no  violence.  We  re- 
solved not  to  give  them  the  chance  they  wanted  to 
tell  the  country  we  were  ruflSans.  We  went  to  the 
door  of  the  Hall  in  obedience  to  our  adjournment, 
and  when  it  had  been  announced  in  an  official  form, 
that  the  Hall  was  in  the  peaceful  possession  of  a 
meeting  of  the  citizens  of  the  Territory,  wc  ad 
journed  to  this  chamber.  Again  "Othello's  occu- 
pation's gone."  That  was  the  crisis  of  this  Con- 
stitutional Convention.  If  violence  had  been  used 
on  that  occasion,  it  would  have  furnished  food  for 
their  party  in  Minnesota  for  years  to  come. 
Instead  of  that,  our  whole  proceedings  have  been 
conducted  in  a  quiet,  orderly  manner,  in  accor- 
dance with  parliamentary  law  and  practice." 

I  have  a  few  words  to  say  upon  the  passage 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Tuesday,  Acgcst  4. 


299 


I  have  read,  and  other  passages  occuring  in 
the  speech  carrying  the  same  idea,  for  he 
speaks  often  of  the  anxiety  of  the  Republi- 
can party  to  have  war  and  bloodshed,  and 
seems  to  desii'e  very  much  to  make  the  im- 
pression that  the  Democrats  are  all  too  peace- 
able and  quiet  and  orderly  to  be  drawn  into 
conflict  with  Such  men. 

Now,  let  me  ask  what  are  the  fiicts  in  the 
case,  known  to  every  observing  man  in  this 
city,  nearly  every  man  in  the  Territory  ?  The 
fact  is  well  known,  that  these  same  gentlemen, 
representing  themselves  so  innocent  and  peace- 
ful before  this  body  and  the  public  did,  so 
long  as  there  was  hope  of  accomplishing  any- 
thing, b}n  it  assume  a  boastful  and  threatening 
air,  talking  so  loudly  in  their  caucus  as  to  be 
distinctly  heard  in  the  street,  and  announcing 
their  determination  to  take  this  Hall,  "  peace- 
"  ably  if  they  could,  forcibly  if  they  must." 
Others  of  them  declared  to  a  merchant  in 
this  city,  that  "  they  would  have  the  Hall  if 
"  it  costs  their  heart's  blood,"  and  other  similar 
rash  and  foolish  expressions  were  made  in  the 
street.  But  the  more  calm  and  better  judg- 
ing portion,  it  seems,  voted  down  these  violent 
•men,  and  would  not  allow  them  to  do  it. 
Meanwhile,  tliis  Convention  went  quietly  on 
with  business,  attending  to  the  work  which 
their  constituents  sent  them  here  to  do. 
Whilst  all  this  blustering  was  going  on,  they 
looked  into  this  Hall  and  saw  the  determina- 
tion that  was  manifested  here,  and  one  of  their 
most  distinguished  leaders,  was  heard  to  say 
"  you  see  they  will  not  yield — you  must 
"  give  up  ;"  and  Secretary  Chase  said  to 
them  :  "  It  is  no  use  gentlemen  ;  no  man  can 
"  get  into  that  chair."  They  then  turned  on 
their  heel,  went  into  the  other  end  of  the  Cap- 
itol, and  concluded  to  make  out  and  represent 
themselves  as  quiet  and  much  abused  men ; 
and  visions  of  revolvers  and  bludgeons,  and 
bowie-knives  and  Sharp's  rifles,  seem  to  have 
been  swimming  in  the  ex-Governor's  brain 
from  that  day  to  this.  It  is  amusing,  almost 
contemptible  in  these  men,  after  ranting  and 
blustering  as  they  have  done,  now  to  whine 
over  the  warlike  disposition  of  tliis  peaceable 
Republican  Convention.  It  reminds  me  of  one 
FalstaflF,  that  used  to  bluster  and  boast  very 
much  of  himself,  and  wherever  he  got  fright- 
ened and  run  from  a  contest,  he  was  always 
sure,  in  telling  the  tale,  to  make  himself  out  a 


great  hero,  only  overcome  by  overwhelming 
numbers  all  armed  to  the  teeth. 

I  fancy  I  see  the  ex-Governor  in  the  fol- 
lowing passage  from  Shakspeare's  King  Hen- 
ry IV : 

"P.  ^«rw.— What's  the  matter? 

" Fal. — What's  the  matter?  there  be  four  of  us 
here  have  ta'en  a  thousand  pound  this  morning. 

"  P.  Hen. — Where  is  it  Jack?  where  is  it? 

"Fill. — Where  is  it?  taken  from  us  it  is;  a  hun- 
dred upon  our  four  of  us. 

"P.  Hen. — What,  a  hundred  men? 

"  Fal. — I  am  a  rogue,  if  I  were  not  at  half-sword 
with  a  dozen  of  them  two  hours  together.  I  have 
'scaped  by  miracle.  I  am  eight  times  thrust 
through  the  doublet ;  four  through  the  hose ;  my 
buckler  cut  through  and  through;  my  sword  hack- 
ed like  a  hand  Saw.  *  *  *       * 

"  P.  Hen. — What,  fought  ye  with  them  all? 

"Fal.—M\^  I  know  not  what  ye  call  all;  but 
if  I  fought  not  with  fifty  of  them,  I  am  a  bunch  of 
radish  ;  if  there  were  not  two  or  three  and  fifty 
upon  poor  old  Jack,  then  I  am  no  two  legged  crea- 
ture. ♦  *♦*♦* 

"  P.  Hen. —  *  *  *  Mark  now,  how  a  plain 
tale  shall  put  you  down.  Then  did  we  two  set  on 
you  four ;  and,  with  a  word  out-faced  you  from 
your  prize,  and  have  it ;  yea,  and  can  show  it  you 
here  in  the  house ;  and,  Falstaff,  you  carried  your 
guts  away  as  nimbly,  with  as  quick  dexterity,  and 
roared  for  mercy,  and  still  ran  and  roared,  as  ever 
I  beard  a  bull-calf.  What  as  slave  ai-t  thou  to  hack 
thy  sword  as  thou  hast  done,  and  then  say  it  was 
in  a  fight !  What  trick,  what  device,  what  start- 
ing-hole, canst  thou  now  find  out,  to  hide  thee 
from  this  open  and  apparent  shame?" 

There  are  other  points  in  this  speech  which 
I  would  like  to  notice,  if  time  would  serve. 
Frequently  throughout  it,  he  seems  disposed 
to  draw  a  parallel  between  the  RepubUcans 
in  this  Territory,  and  the  Republicans  in 
Kansas.     He  says : 

"  In  Kansas  to-day,  if  the  truth  were  told,  their 
Emigrant  Aid  Societies  have  peopled  that  country 
with  a  set  of  men  armed  with  Sharp's  rifles,  armed 
with  Colt's  revolvers,  armed  with  deadly  weap- 
ons, &c." 

Again,  he  says : 

.  "  Give  this  Republican  party  the  prestige  of 
power  in  Minnesota,  and  they  will  flood  your  Ter- 
ritory with  the  minions  of  their  Emigrani  Aid  So- 
cieties, armed  with  rifles,  Ac." 

And  he  keeps  drawing  the  parallel,  and  says 
in  reference  to  this,  that  the  Democratic  cau- 
cus had  resolved  not  to  give  these  Republicans 
any  "food  for  fanaticism" — not  to  give  the 
Republicans  a  pretext  of  Democratic  wrong 
doings  to  make  a  noise  about.     I  ask  no  bet- 


800 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Tuesday,  August  4. 


ter  statement,  Mr.  President.  I  am  glad  the 
ex-Governor  has  been  willing  to  place  himself 
and  colleagues  upon  the  same  footing  with  his 
party  in  Kansas.  The  illustration  is  a  good 
one.  The  Republicans  in  Kansas  have  fought 
in  self  defense.  The  Border  Ruffians  fought 
and  shed  blood  there  in  a  cowardly  manner, 
when  they  were  in  the  ascendant  and  had  noth- 
ing to  oppose  them ;  but  whenever  the  Free 
State  men  have  stood  their  ground  and  show- 
ed grit  in  defense  of  their  rights,  the  assailants 
have  recoiled  and  made  a  great  outcry  and 
noise  about  Sharp's  rifles  and  revolvers  and 
revolutions,  just  as  Governor  Gorman  and  his 
friends  have  done.  As  long  as  the  latter 
thought  they  could  effect  anything  by  it,  they 
heralded  it  to  the  world  that  they  would  have 
this  hall.  But  when  the  Republicans  met 
them  quietly,  like  men  in  the  flirm  discharge 
of  their  duty,  they  backed  oif,  and  began  to 
raise  a  hue  and  cry  about  arms  and  revolution. 
I  thank  the  ex-Governor  for  presenting  this 
matter  so  truly  before  his  friends  and  the 
country.  The  disposition  has  been  the  same 
on  the  part  of  the  Democratic  party  here  that 
was  manifested  by  the  same  party  in  Kansas. 
Notice  the  illegal  voting !  There,  the  Border 
Ruffians  from  western  Missouri  rushed  in  and 
told  the  people  of  Kansas  to  stand  aside ;  and 
where  they  had  power,  drove  the  real  people 
of  Kansas  from  the  polls.  So  it  was  with  the 
Democracy  on  the  first  day  of  June,  right 
here  in  the  city  of  St.  Paul ;  and  so  numerous 
and  outrageous  were  the  frauds  practiced  at 
the  polls  here,  that  even  their  own  newspa- 
per— as  unscrupulous  a  sheet  as  it  is — was 
compelled  to  chronicle  the  wrong  as  "  shame- 
ful fraud."  The  same  thing  occurred  also  at 
St.  Anthony,  and  at  other  precincts  where 
they  had  the  power  and  could  proceed  with 
impunity.  But  not  having  the  same  relative 
numerical  force  here  in  Minnesota  that  they 
had  in  Kansas,  of  course  they  could  not  go 
quite  to  the  same  extent.  But  just  as  far  as 
they  had  the  power  to  go,  so  far  they  went. 
I  thank  the  ex-Governor  again,  for  drawing 
the  parallel  in  so  fair  a  manner,  between  him- 
self and  his  friends,  and  the  Border  RuJBQans 
of  Kansas. 

I  had  thought,  at  one  time,  to  review  the 
ex-Governor's  remarks  in  regard  to  the  elec- 
tion of  the  members  from  St.  Anthony,  upon 
which  he  dwelt  at  considerable  length.     But 


one  of  these  gentlemen,  (  Mr.  Secombe,)  hav- 
ing presented  this  case  the  other  day  with 
great  clearness,  I  am  relieved  from  that  ne- 
cessity. But  the  ex-Governor,  alluded  to  the 
alleged  connection  of  Judge  Trumbull  with  the 
St.  Anthony  case.  In  reference  to  that  mat- 
ter, I  would  remark  that  I  have  seen  in  that 
party  from  time  to  time,  a  persistent  deter- 
mination to  declare  and  send  it  abroad,  that 
Senator  Trumbull  counselled  the  Board  of 
Canvassers  of  Hennepin  county  in  regard  to 
the  course  they  pursued.  Notwithstanding 
this  has  been  contradicted  repeatedly  by  the 
St.  Anthony  Hepublican,  and  over  and  over 
again,  contradicted  by  the  Register  of  Deeds 
of  Hennepin  county,  it  has  been  still  repeated 
and  reiterated,  as  though  some  great  advan- 
tage was  to  be  gained  by  perpetuating  that  lie. 
But  I  will  say  here,  Mr.  President,  if  that  be 
so — if  Judge  Trumbull  was  counselled,  and 
he  did  give  his  advice  in  the  case — perhaps 
there  is  no  higher  legal  authority  in  all  the 
Western  or  Northern  States.  I  believe  he  is 
regarded  as  one  of  the  clearest  and  soundest 
lawyers  in  the  North  West,  and  if  he  has 
given  an  opinion  in  favor  of  the  course  pur- 
sued by  that  Board,  that,  in  my  judgment, 
would  strengthen  the  case  wonderfully.  But 
it  seems  that  the  case  is  sufficiently  strong 
without  the  help  of  Judge  Trumbull.  But  sir, 
I  am  authorized  to  say,  and  I  do  say,  without 
fear  of  successful  contradiction,  that  the  whole 
story,  from  beginning  to  end,  which  tliese  gen- 
tlemen have  taken  so  much  pains  to  publish 
and  repeat,  is  all  utterly  without  foundation, 
all  false  and  untrue,  from  beginning  to  end. 
So  much  for  that. 

Now,  sir,  with  regard  to  the  Pembina  case, 
the  ex-Governor  says : 

"  Sir,  I  care  not  from  which  side  of  the  river  the 
delegates  are  elected.  Pembina  is  entitled  to  rep- 
resentation upon  this  floor,  unless  you  can  prove 
that  there  is  no  Seventh  Council  District." 

Again,  he  says : 

"  If  the  Enabling  act  then  changes  the  boundary 
of  the  county  of  Pembina,  which  I  say  it  does  not, 
that  portion  of  the  county  still  within  the  bounda- 
ries of  the  proposed  State,  yet  more  than  two 
thousand  miles  square,  of  right  claims  the  repre- 
sentation of  the  county,  unless  forbid  by  law."* 

The  ex-Govenior  has  a  fault  of  stretching 
stories  sometimes,  and  it  seems  he  has  in- 

"*  In  the  revised  edition  of  the  Governor's 
speech  this  is  made  to  read  two  thousand  square 
miles — the  other  must  have  been  a  misprint. 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Tuesday,  August  4. 


301 


dulged  a  little  in  regard  to  the  area  of  a  part 
of  tlae  county  of  Pembina ;  for  there  would 
hardly  be  found  room  for  two  thousand  miles 
square  between  Hudson's  Bay  and  the  Mis- 
souri river. 

A  VOICE.  Is  it  not  two  thousand  square 
miles  ? 

'  I^Ir.  NORTH.  Two  thousand  miles  square, 
is  the  reading.  I  might  think,  that  this  might 
have  been  a  mistake  of  the  ex-Governor's, 
but  such  mistakes  occur  so  often  wnih.  him, 
that  I  am  inclined  to  think  it  is  in  harmony 
with  the  rest  of  the  speech,  and  not  a  mere 
misprint. 

It  would  seem,  for  the  first  time  in  the  his- 
tory of  this  Tenitory,  the  certificates  of  elec- 
tion obtained  by  certain  members  of  the  body 
in  the  other  end  of  the  Capitol,  purporting  to 
come  from  Pembina  County,  came  not  fi'om 
Pembina,  but  from  the  county  of  Nicollet. 
I  am  informed,  by  a  gentleman  familiar  as 
well  with  this  transaction  as  with  former 
elections  in  Pembina,  that  heretofore,  when 
their  representatives  and  covmcillors  have 
brought  any  certificates  at  all,  they  have 
brought  them  from  the  Register  of  Deeds  of 
the  county  of  Pembina.  It  seems  they  were 
in  trouble.  They  wanted  a  full  representa- 
tion, and  could  hardly  wait  for,  or  dared  not 
ventiure,  to  bring  the  certificates  fiom  the 
county  officers  on  the  western  side  of  Red 
River,  and  so  they  had  them  purport  to  come 
from  Nicollet  County,  for  the  reason,  they 
say,  that  Pembina  is  attached  to  Nicollet 
County  for  judicial  piu^ses. 

But  there  is  another  very  singular  feet  in 
this  case.  It  is  this  :  that  these  same  dele- 
gates came  from  Pembina  without  any  certi- 
ficates, and  before  they  are  within  a  hundred 
miles  of  the  Capitol,  their  certificates  are 
here.  They  lie  here  two  weeks  before  they 
are  reported  upon ;  and  then  they  are  report- 
ed upon  several  niays  before  the  delegates 
arrive  !  It  is  stated,  in  one  of  the  city  pa- 
pers, by  a  gentleman  well  known  in  the  Ter- 
ritory, and  direct  from  Pembina,  how  the 
election  occurred.  I  read  the  account  from 
the  St  Paul  Daily  Times  of  July  STth. 

"  All  About  Pkkbixa  ! — By  the  arrival  of  Mr. 
B.  T.  Baldwia  from  Pembina  on  Saturday  we  are 
placed  in  possession  of  the  actual  returns  of  the 
Delegate  election  there,  which  we  hasten  to  lay  be- 
fore our  readers. 


"  Mr.  Baldwin  is  one  of  the  pioneers  of  the  west, 
and  an  old  resident  of  this  city,  so  that  his  state- 
ments may  be  implicitly  relied  on  as  correct. 

"  Mr.  Baldwin  says,  that  the  voters  of  Pembina 
city  on  the  west  side  of  the  river,  got  together  on 
the  first  Monday  in  June  and  drew  up  a  ticket  to 
be  voted  for  on  the  east  side  of  the  river,  and 
knowing  by  the  provisions  of  the  Enabling  Act  that 
the  west  side  had  no  part  in  the  election,  the  polls 
there  were  not  opened. 

"  On  the  east  side  of  the  Red  River  he  says  there 
were  two  places  of  voting,  and  the  ticket — Demo- 
cratic of  course  and  the  only  one  in  the  field — was 
composed  of  four  candidates,  and  ran  as  follows : 
Joseph  Rolette,  Jerome  St.  Martre,  J.  P.  Wilson, 
and  Joseph  Versere. 

"  Of  these  Joseph  Rolette  and  JeromeSt.  Martre 
were  both  from  the  west  side  of  the  river,  outside 
"  the  boundaries  of  the  proposed  State"  and  of 
the  remaining  two,  J.  P.  Wilson,  a  resident  of 
Minneapolis,  was  then  on  a  flying  trip  to  Sheyenne 
(three  hundred  miles  from  the  election  precinct) 
and  had  never  been  near  Pembina  in  his  life  I 
Joseph  Versere  was  a  half-breed  living  on  the  east 
side — the  only  one  of  the  ticket  eligible  to  elec- 
tion. 

"  Mr  Baldwin  (a  Democrathimself,)  was  present, 
but  perceiving  that  a  game  of  high  handed  fraud 
was  being  played,  refused  to  participate;  and 
threatened  to  "post"  every  man  who  became  an 
accomplice  in  the  crime. 

"  Well — the  farce  went  on,  and  Mr.  Baldmn  as- 
certained at  night  from  the  "  Judges  of  Election" 
that  there  had  been  only  eleven  [11]  votes  cast,  all 
told  I — and  that  five  [5]  of  these  came  from  Pem- 
bina city,  on  the  west  side.  This  would  leave  six 
simon-pure  voters  to  elect  four  delegates,  but  now 
Gorman  and  his  tools —  Becker,  Sherburne,  Flan- 
dran,  Sibley,  Brown  &,  Co. — insolently  claim  six 
delegates — or  precisely  one  delegate  to  every 
voter ! 

"The  two  extra  men  whom  they  have  fraudu- 
lently summoned  to  the  rescue  of  collapsing  De- 
mocracy, are  Jas.  McFetridge,  who  is  Custom 
House  officer  at  Pembina,  and  who  was  Clerk  at  the 
bogus  election  the  ridiculous  details  of  which  we 
give  above,  and  a  half-breed  cousin  of  Rolette's. 
All  these  six  are  now  sitting  at  the  Democratic 
"  Convention,"  to  frame  a  Constitution  for  the 
Free  People  of  Minnesota.  To  the  truth  of  the 
above  facts  Mr.  B.  is  willing  to  make  affidavit. 

"  There — ^the  particulars  of  this  stupendous  fraud 
which  the  Gorman  rebels  hoped  would  be  hidden 
in  the  shadow  of  its  own  unexplored  obscurity,  are 
before  the  world.  On  these  six  is  the  whole  force  of 
the  Revolutionists  leaning  for  an  apology,  as  with- 
out these,  they  would  be — even  admitting  the  other 
half  dozen  of  their  bogus  '  members'  to  be  simon- 
pure — in  a  helpless  minority  of  eleven.  A  fair  and 
candid  statement  is  now  before  the  people,  and 
without  a  comment,  we  leave  all  honest  men  to 
deduce  their  own  inferences." 


302 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Tcesday,  August  4. 


This  was  published  in  this  city  on  the  twen- 
ty-seventh of  July,  and  it  has  not  yet  been 
contradicted  in  any  material  point.  It  seems 
then,  that  two  of  the  Pembina  delegation,  with- 
out any  election  whatever,  come  in  and  claim 
seats  and  are  admitted.  Thus  we  see  with 
what  remarkable  facility  they  can  induce  men 
to  take  seats  in  that  body,  to  justify  the  pro- 
ceedings of  a  minority,  scraping  up  delegates 
and,  fittbg  them  out  with  certificates  without 
foundation  of  right,  to  enact  the  farce  of  pre- 
tending to  be  the  Constitutional  Convention 
of  Minnesota. 

Let  us  look  at  it  in  the  light  of  candor  and 
fairness,  and  at  their  complaints  in  the  case. 
They  pretend  to  be  grieved,  that  certain  men 
have  certificates  and  seats  in  this  Convention, 
which  they  think  they  ought  not  to  have  ;  and 
what  do  they  do  ?  Without  ever  coming  here 
and  presenting  a  courteous,  parliamentary 
claim,  and  contesting  faiiiy  the  seats  of  these 
persons — without  daring  to  meet  them  and 
make  the  issue,  which  has  been  invited  by 
the  St.  Anthony  members,  they  endeavor  to 
noise  it  abroad  and  prove  to  the  world,  that 
great  injustice  has  been  done  to  them.  And 
they  think  to  be  heard  by  the  people  in  all 
this,  notwithstanding  the  illegal  votes  they 
obtained  ;  notwithstanding  their  outrageous 
frauds,  that  made  even  themselves  to  blush, 
by  which  a  thousand  illegal  votes  were  cast 
here  in  this  city ;  and  passing  over  the  Bas- 
sett  case,  wherein  they  ejected  that  gentle- 
man from  the  Legislature  some  two  years  ago, 
and  the  case  wherein  Judge  Vaughn  was 
treated  in  like  manner ;  and  without  thinking 
of  the  case  of  Mr.  llowell,  who  was  also 
ejected  from  the  Council,  on  the  ground  of  a 
mere  clerical  error,  and  with  reference  to 
which  they  have  ever  confessed,  that  it  was 
the  wickedest  thing  they  ever  did. 

We  say  to  them  : 

We  hope,  gentlemen,  you  will  repent  of 
your  sins ;  but  we  also  hope  you  will  bear 
bear  these  things  in  mind,  when  you  profess 
fiuch  a  holy  horror  of  tricks,  and  so  strict  an 
observance  of  law,  and  when  you  consider 
the  case  of  the  St.  Anthony  certificates, 
which  were  issued  in  strict  conformity  with 
the  law,  even  as  you  understood  it,  up  to  the 
hour  of  election.  These  men  who  were  so 
shocked  at  the  proceedings  in  the  St,  Anthony 
case,  themselves  attempted  a  fraud  in  that 


very  case.  They  attempted  a  trick  to  secure 
a  certain  amount  of  votes,  and  the  election  of 
a  certain  delegate.  But  when  the  tricksters 
are  caught  in  their  own  trap,  we  here  them 
whining  about  it. 

The  St.  Anthony  Baypress,  the  Democratic 
organ  of  the  place,  in  an  editorial  article 
written  prior  to  the  election,  holds  the  followii 
ing  language : 

"It  being  the  universally  received  construction 
in  all  parts  of  the  Territory,  of  the  Enabling  Act, 
at  least  for  the  purposes  of  this  canvass,  that  each 
precinct  is  entitled  to  double  the  number  of  delegates 
in  the  Convention,  which  it  Jias  both  of  Bepresenta- 
tives  and  Councillors  in  the  Legislature,  St.  Antho- 
ny should  make  her  nominations  and  elections 
accordingly ;  else  she  might  fail  of  having  her  due 
representation.  Certainly  such  would  be  the  case 
if  she  should  only  choose  Ee^resentative  delegates, 
while  the  precincts  choose  Councillor  delegates  in 
addition,  and  also  secured  seats  for  them.  At  the 
same  time  it  should  be  borne  in  mind  that  the 
Convention,  like  any  other  legislative  body,  will 
decide  the  number,  as  well  as  judge  of  the  qualifi- 
cations of  its  own  members ;  and  that  when  assem- 
bled it  may  take  upon  itself  to  construe  the  Enab- 
ling Act  to  suit  its  own  notion,  caprice  or  conven- 
ience, without  the  remotest  reference  to  what  the 
people  have  thought  or  done  in  the  premises. 
The  Convention,  as  regards  its  rules  of  action,  or  its 
o)'ganization,  will  be  entirely  irresponsible,  and  if  it 
should  hold  that  only  Representative  delegates 
could  be  admttted  to  seats,  the  Councillor  dele- 
gates .will  be  compelled  to  retire.  A  thousand 
certificates  of  election,  signed  by  a  thousand  in- 
spectors of  election,  would  not  avail  them.  Would 
it  not  then  be  the  part  of  wisdom  to  prepare  for, 
or  guard  against  whatever  may  happen  ?  Would 
it  not  be  the  part  of  wisdom,  and  prevent  misun- 
derstanding and ;  embarrassment,  to  designate  or 
distinguish  in  some  simple,  plain  manner  the  two 
classes  of  delegates,  either  as  Keprescntativc  or 
Councillor,  on  the  tickets  themselves  ?  After  such 
a  precaution,  it  would  be  known  who  must  retire, 
should  the  Convention,  as  is  not  at  all  improbable, 
put  a  construction  upon  the  Enabling  Act  diflerent 
from  the  popular  construction.  And  thus  much 
time  and  contention  and  many  heart-burnings 
might  be  saved," 

In]tliis  article  it  is  urged  upon  the  people 
of  that  precinct  to  make  a  distinction  in  their 
nominations — to  name  some  as  CouncOlor, 
and  some  as  Representative  delegates  ;  that 
there  might  be  no  question,  when  they  came 
before  the  Convention,  who  should  be  entitkvl 
to  scats.  They  so  understood  the  law  up  to 
the  time  of  the  election.  They  so  interpreted 
it  in  their  organ  before  tJie  election,  and  it  was 
so    understood    afterwards ;     for  even    the 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Tuesday,  August  4. 


303 


Express  acknowledged  that  the  Register  of 
Deeds  from  Hennepin  county  might  have 
acted  honestly. 

Now,  I  say,  Mr.  President,  after  so  much 
noise  about  the  matter,  it  is  extremely  ridicu- 
lous that  men  should  give  one  interpretation 
of  the  law  up  to  the  time  of  the  election,  and 
then,  when  they  get  caught  in  a  trap  set  for 
others  by  one  of  their  own  men,  who  imme- 
diately afterwards  run  away,  and  left  it  for 
others,  as  the  Express  intimated,  "  to  haul  his 
own  chesnuts  out  of  the  fire " — should 
attempt  to  prejudice  the  whole  Republican 
party  on  account  of  his  and  their  own  trick — 
I  say,  sir,  it  is  not  only  extremely  ridiculous, 
but  it  is  a  little  contemptible. 

But  the  organ  says  this  Convention  would 
be  their  own  interpreters  of  the  law,  and 
would  have  the  right  to  decide  upon  the  qual- 
ifications of  its  own  members.  Then  why 
did  they  hesitate  ?  Why  did  they  come  into 
that  door  in  a  body,  and  in  less  than  foi"ty- 
five  seconds  depart  from  this  Hall,  and  refuse 
to  come  in  and  let  the  question  be  passed 
upon  by  this  Convention,  as  the  only  inter- 
preters of  the  law,  and  in  the  only  mode  and 
manner  in  which  it  could  be  done  ? 

They  have  said  that  we  were  even  anxious 
to  get  rid  of  the  St.  Anthony  delegates.  Now 
in  all  conscience,  if  that  be  true,  Mr.  Presi- 
dent, it  shows  as  great  a  degree  of  fairness 
on  the  part  of  the  members  composing  this 
Convention,  as  tliey  themselves  could  ask. 
Why  need  they  fear,  then,  to  come  in  and 
present  their  case  before  this  body  ?  Aye, 
sir,  they  know  too  well,  that  there  was  fraud 
in  that  election.  They  know  [too  well  that 
the  law  and  the  interpretation  are  against 
tliem.  They  know,  sir,  that  they  can  make  a 
much  better  case,  when  they  go  and  sit  down 
together  in  the  other  end  of  the  Capitol  and 
have  their  say,  all  to  themselves. 

Now  let  us  look  at  the  manner  in  wliich 
they  get  admission  into  that  body.     Accord- 
ing to   the  universal  rule  of  parliamentary 
proceedings  in  such  cases,  those  having  certi- 
ates  of  election  fair  on  their  face,  have  prima  ' 

icie,  the  right  to  come  in  and  take  their  seats. 

hen  the  contesting  parties  come  in  as  they 
hink  proper,  and  present  their  cases.  This 
-  the  regular  mode  of  proceeding.  But  the 
organization  of  the  minority  Convention  was 
all  irregular. 


Such  an  organization  was  never  seen  before ! 
Besides  those  having  certificates,  some  ten  or 
twelve  persons,  it  is  not  kno^^'n  how  many, 
came  in.  The  whole  of  them  present  them- 
selves without  any  roll  call,  to  tell  who  or 
what  they  are.  They  produce  nothing  to 
show,  authoritively  on  its  facfe,  that  they  have 
come  there  as  members  of  the  Constitutional 
Convention.  Two  or  three  daj's  after  their 
temporary  organization,  some  of  them  hand 
in  certain  certificates.  These  certificates  are 
kept  from  the  time  they  are  handed  in  up  to 
the  twenty-third  of  July,  before  they  are 
reported  upon. 

Then  all  kinds  of  cases  were  reported  upon 
in  a  mass — the  cases  of  those  who  had  certi- 
cates,  as  well  asjjthose  who  had  none,  of  those 
who  were  present,  and  of  certain  ones  who 
were  absent,  but  whose  certificates  were  mys- 
teriously present.  They  report  upon  them 
all  promiscuously.  Then  promisculously  vote 
tliemselves  in.  They  just  vote  themselves  in 
en  masse  !  Why,  sir,  if  tlie  whole  town  of 
St.  Paul  had  come  in  and  asked  to  have  been 
admitted,  and  if  they  had  been  admitted  by 
that  common  vote,  it  would  have  been  as 
much  in  legal,  parliamentary  form,  as  is  their 
organization  to-day. 

But  these  gentlemen  are  so  much  opposed 
to  tricks !  Let  us  see  how  much  they  are 
opposed  to  tricks.  In  the  first  place  they 
contemplated,  they  consulted  together,  and 
planned  an  organization  in  this  Hall,  at  mid- 
night, ending  Sunday  the  twelfth  of  July. 
This  was  a  thing  proposed  by  those  gentle- 
men, who  pretend  to  be  so  very  honest,  and 
so  much  averse  to  trickery.  We  have  the 
fact  from  authority  which  they  themselves 
dare  not  deny,  tliat  they  contemplated  such 
an  organization ;  and  the  members  of  this 
body  were  right  when  they  concluded  that 
such  was  their  intention.  When  the  propo- 
sition was  made  to  the  members  of  this  party, 
to  sign  a  paper  pledging  themselves  to  meet 
at  twelve  o'clock  on  Monday,  and  organize 
like  men,  they  met  this  proposition  with  a 
sneer,  and  took  French  leave  of  those  who 
offered  it.  Every  sign  and  circumstance  on 
their  part  showed  that  there  was  something 
behind  the  curtain,  and  every  circumstance 
since  has  shown  that  they  had  determined  to 
come  in  and  organize  at  twelve  at  midnight. 
It  was  conceded  on  all  hands,  that  no  hour 


304 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Tuesday,  August  4. 


being  "  mentioned  in  the  Enabling  Act,  the 
"  Convention  had  a  right  to  organize  at  any 
"  hour  of  the  day ; "  and  in  the  action  that 
we  took,  we  merely  said  to  them,  "We  will 
"not  take  advantage  of  your  absence,  but  we 
"  will  see  that  you  shall  not  take  advantage  of 
"ours."  The  members  of  this  Convention 
had  to  depend  upon  themselves  to  prevent 
and  protect  themselves  from  the  trick  which 
the  same  party  enacted  once  before  in  Ohio 
by  an  organization  at  twelve  o'  clock  at  night, 
when  the  present  Governor  of  this  Territory 
was  the  leader  of  the  Democratic  party  of 
that  State.  Well,  sir,  when  they  saw  that 
there  was  vigilance  and  determination  here, 
they  came  up  with  all  apparent  fairness,  and 
proposed  to  sign  a  paper  to  organize  at  noon. 
But  this  also,  was  by  way  of  a  trick,  for  they 
got  a  few  names  from  us ;  and  then  getting 
together  again  into  consultation,  they  retained 
it,  and  sent  back  an  evasive  resolution  speci- 
fying no  hour  whatever.  This  only  aroused 
still  further  the  vigilance  of  the  Republican 
members. 

These  men  also  who  are  so  shocked  at  the 
idea  of  breaking  the  Sabbath,  had  a  caucus 
meeting  on  Sunday  night.  That  caucus  con- 
tinued in  session  till  near  midnight,  consulting 
on  schemes  for  the  organization  of  this  body. 
The  next  morning  they  profess  to  have  come 
to  a  resolution  in  the  matter,  and  send  us  a 
copy  of  that  resolution  in  which  they  con- 
curred in  the  proposition  of  the  Republicans 
to  organize  at  twelve  o'clock,  M.  The  clock 
of  this  Hall  was  turned  back  some  ten  min- 
utes or  more,  by  their  direction.  The  clock 
being  turned  back,  they  rushed  in  here  in  a 
body,  tumultuously,  seventeen  minutes  be- 
fore the  time,  and  by  a  trick,  endeavored  to 
adjourn  this  body,  and  get  away.  Now  I 
have  just  one  passage  to  read  from  the  speech 
of  Ex-Governor  Gorman,  on  this  point,  where 
he  is  setting  forth  the  honesty  and  fairness 
and  good  intention  of  the  Democracy  in  com- 
ing into  this  Hall  on  that  day — their  very  hon- 
est intentions  !     lie  says : 

"  Having  proceeded  to  this  point,  the  intention 
expressed  in  our  caucus  was,  inasmuch  as  several 
of  our  members  had  not  come  in,  knowing  that, 
in  consequence  of  the  alarm,  which  had  been 
sounded  throughout  the  Territory,  calling  on  the 
Republican  Delegates  to  be  here ;  they  were  hero 
armed  cap-a-pie,  and  that,  having  slept  upon  their 
arms  they  were  expecting  some  great  development. 


If  upon  calling  the  roll,  it  resulted,  as  we  expected, 
that  the  Republicans  had  the  majority,  we  in- 
tended, &c." 

Here,  Mr.  President,  is  a  precious  admis- 
sion by  the  Ex-Governor,  that  they  expected 
they  were  in  a  minority.  They  knew  this,  in 
their  councils.  They  knew  it  very  well,  and 
admitted  and  reported  the  fact  to  different 
members  of  this  body,  that  they  were  legally 
in  a  minority,  before  coming  into  this  IJall : 
and  still  these  gentlemen,  so  honest,  so  much 
adverse  to  trickery,  come  in  here  and  attempt 
to  seize  upon  the  organization,  and  by  a  trick, 
endeavored  to  coerce  this  Convention  and 
compel  the  majority  to  receive  their  dictation. 
But  they  got  frightened  and  run  away  instantly, 
and  felt  themselves,  no  doubt,  in  an  unenvia- 
ble position. 

It  is,  indeed,  quite  amusing  to  notice  the 
Ex-Governor,  in  four  or  five  passages  of  this 
speech,  when  he  expatiates  on  their  determi- 
nation that  they  would  pursue  a  course  of 
fairness;  that  they  would  not,  under  any 
circumstances,  proceed  to  violence.  It  re- 
minds me  of  the  efforts  of  a  drunken  man  to 
walk  straight,  the  effort  but  exposing  the 
more  the  weakness  he  would  conceal.  So  it 
is  with  the  Ex-Qovernor  and  his  story. 

Talk  about  honesty  and  fairness!  Make 
us  believe  in  the  honesty  and  fairness  of  these 
men,  knowing  themselves  in  a  minority,  and 
coming  in  here,  and  attempting  to  adjourn 
this  body,  Avith  less  than  forty  members ;  for 
with  all  told,  they  had  but  forty-four ;  wliilst 
the  Republicans  proceeded  to  organize  with 
fifty-six. 

— ^But,  suppose  they  had  the  number  to 
make  a  quorum,  if  that  adjournment  fails 
them,  they  are  gone ;  and  if  that  is  the  only 
hair  on  which  they  hang,  it  seems  to  me  their 
condition  is  rather  precarious  ;  and  hereupon 
the  ex-Governor  very  adroitly  says,  "  Well, 
"  sir,  we  can  give  them  some  Parliamentary 
"  tactics,  but  we  cannot  put  brains  into  their 
"  heads." 

Here  is  an  example  of  the  honesty  of  men 
refusing  to  submit  to,  the  rule  of  the  majority 
and  exulting  to  their  own  shame  in  their  fee- 
ble tactics  and  contemptible  tricks. 

But  what  was  their  motive  for  wishing  to 
adjourn?  The  ex-Governor  tells  us  they 
were  going  to  do  this,  and  to  do  that.  They 
were  going  to  have   the  roll  called,  and  all 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Tcesday,  August  4. 


305 


having  certificates  should  present  them,  and 
the  thing  was  to  be  gone  through  in  parlia- 
mentaiy  order.  Why  did  they  not  do  it? 
Another  gentleman  fells  us,  they  wanted  the 
Convention  to  adjourn  but  for  one  day  ;  an- 
other, for  tlu-ee  days  ;  and  another,  till  their 
members  could  get  in;  and  then,  judging 
from  their  actions,  they  wanted  us  to  adjourn 
for  about  two  weeks — and  actions  speak 
louder  than  words. 

A  glance  at  the  speech  of  one  more  gentle- 
man in  that  body,  and  then  I  am  done ;  and 
that  is,  the  speech  of  the  President  of  their 
Convention.  The  President  of  that  body  is 
well  knovm  in  the  Territory,  and  he  has  main- 
tained a  character  for  integrity  and  honor  that 
has  been  quite  equal  to  that  of  any  gentleman 
there.  But  the  speech,  I  must  say,  falls  fiir 
short  of  what  might  be  expected  from  such  a 
som-ce.  He  accuses  us,  to  commence  with, 
of  gross  incivility.  I  read  from  his  speech 
the  following : 

"  Sir,  it  strikes  us,  that  never  has  a  deliberative 
body  evinced  so  great  a  want  of  civility — I  might 
say  of  common  decency — towards  a  portion,  and  a 
large  portion  of  its  members,  as  the  body  occupy- 
ing the  opposite  end  of  the  Capitol,  taking  their 
own  account  of  their  proceedings." 

This  is  a  pretty  broad  assertion,  that  the 
members  of  this  body  are  not  merely  uncivil, 
but  actually  indecent.  But  let  us  see  in  what 
respect  ?  He  endeavors  to  point  out  some  of 
the  grievances  he  has  to  complain  of,  as  fol- 
lows: 

"Well,  sir,  what  did  I  find  here  on  my  arrival 
in  this  city  on  that  Monday  morning?  I  found  a 
body  of  men  in  possession  of  the  Hall  of  the 
House  of  Representatives,  who  are  said  to  have 
occupied  it — and  they  do  not  deny  it — since  mid- 
night, as  they  were  fearful  of  some  danger,  some 
violence,  if  they  did  not  remain  at  their  posts,  and 
retain  possession  vi  et  armis  of  the  Hall." 

Mr,  President,  I  take  it  upon  myself  to 
say  that  this  allegation,  come  from  what  source 
it  may,  is  wholly  imauthomed  and  imfounded; 
and  if  the  gentleman  did  not  know  that  it  was 
not  true,  he  ought  to  have  known  it.  He  had 
been  often  enough  informed  in  the  case  to 
know  fully,  that  this  Hall  was  not  taken  pos- 
session of  at  midnight,  nor  at  any  other  hoiur 
of  the  night.     He  continues  : 

"This,  sir,  is  in  perfect  keeping  with  the  revolu- 
tionary state  of  things  which  has  manifested  itself 
in  the  Republican  ranks  for  the  last  two  years. 
The  Democratic  members  of  the  Convention  resort 

39 


to  violent  proceedings  for  the  sake  of  controlling 
the  organization  of  that  body  ! !  I  have  too  much 
respect  for  the  members  before  me  to  believe  for  a 
moment,  that  any  gentleman  would  think  of  pur- 
suing any  such  course  towards  other  members  of 
the  same  body." 

In  regard  to  that,  Mr.  Pbesidext,  with  the 
well  known  facts  before  this  Convention,  and 
the  other  Convention,  or  the  Democratic  cau- 
cus; with  the  well  known  facts  before  the 
people  of  this  city,  I  have  simply  to  say,  that 
their  denial  by  tliis  gentleman  is  simply  ab- 
surd— a  denial  that  can  amount  to  nothing  in 
the  face  of  facts  so  weU  understood.  He  says 
further : 

"  Xo,  sir ;  from  the  beginning,  their  whole  course 
has  been  in  accordance  with  the  precedents  and  or- 
der." 

I  think,  on  the  contrary,  that  every  step  of 
these  men  has  been  without  precedent  and 
against  order.     He  says  : 

"  AiSTien  they  went  into  that  Convention,  know- 
ing that  several  Democratic  members  were  absent, 
they  desired  to  adjourn,  but  if  theyhadbeen  voted 
down,  unjust  as  I  should  have  considered  the  con- 
duct of  the  opposition,  I  for  one  should  have  sub- 
mitted." 

Unjust !  to  have  voted  against  an  adjourn- 
ment, when  more  than  ninety  members  were 
in  attendance  here !  Was»it  unjust  for  us  to 
proceed  on  the  day  of  our  assembling,- to  the 
discharge  of  public  duties,  because  certain 
members  from  the  other  side  of  Red  river 
had  not  arrived  ?  Was  it  unjust  that  ninety 
delegates  here  should  proceed  to  do  their oiuty, 
like  men,  instead  of  running  away,  like  boys  ? 
I  should  be  ashamed  of  the  citizens  of  this 
Territory,  if  they  had  not  a  more  correct 
sense  of  public  duty,  than  to  consider  it  un- 
just in  us,  to  stay  here  and  do  as  we  did,  in- 
stead of  running  away  after  the  Democracy. 

Mr.  Sibley  next  comes  to  the  resolutions 
offered  by  the  President  of  this  body,  and  re- 
marks on  them  as  follows  : 

"  The  gentleman  who  presides  over  that  body, 
(Mr.  Balcombe,)  for  whom — although  I  have  very 
little  personal  acquaintance  with  him  —  I  have 
hitherto  entertained  much  respect,  has  distinctly 
announced,  in  a  resolution  which  he  brought  before 
that  body,  on  Saturday  last,  that  the  Democratic 
party,  so  far  as  they  are  identified  with  this  body, 
are  opposed  to  the  admission  of  Minnesota  into  the 
Union  as  a  State,  and  that  the  object  of  our  course 
has  been  to  protract  indefinitely,  the  time  in  which 
w«  shall  be  admittgd  as  a  State  into  the  Confedera- 
cy. Now,  sir,  I  say  here,  that  I  do  not  see  how 
any  man  having  any  decent  regard  for  truth,  with 


306 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Wed nesda'y,  August  5. 


the  facts  before  his  eyes,  could  make  that  asser- 
tion. I  stand  here  to-day  to  asseverate  that  there 
is  not  a  man  in  this  Convention,  and  there  is  not  a 
man,  to  my  knowledge,  in  the  Democratic  party, 
here  or  elsewhere — who  is  not  in  favor  of  the  im- 
mediate admission  of  Minnesota  into  the  Union,  as 
a  State.  And  I  will  refer  gentlemen  to  the  fact, 
that  the  Enabling  Act  was  brought  forward  by  a 
Democratic  Delegate  in  Congress,  supported  by 
Democratic  members,  and  that  to  the  leaders  of 
the  Democratic  party  in  Congress  are  we  mainly 
indebted  for  the  initiatory  steps  for  our  admission 
into  the  Union.  This  is  a  fact  which  the  public  re- 
cord shows.  It  is  a  fact  which  will  not  be  denied) 
and  cannot  be  denied." 

I  have  only  to  remark  upon  this,  that  the 
gentleman  perfectly  well  miderstands  another 
fact — a  fact  that  is  well  known  to  the  country, 
that  the  opposition  in  Congress  to  the  Ena- 
bling Act,  was  Democratic  opposition — oppo- 
sition that  came  within  an  ace  of  defeating  it, 
and  for  a  time  held  it  in  suspense.  It  was 
held  back  in  the  Senate  of  the  United  States 
for  a  Know  Nothing  amendment,  which  was 
proposed  and  advocated  by  Democratic  Sena- 
tors, and  adopted  by  their  votes,  which  would 
have  carried  the  bill  over,  if  John  P.  Hale, 
of  New  Hampshire,  had  not  seen  the  trick, 
and  changed  his  vote  so  as  to  move  to  have  it 
re-considered,  and  then  gone  to  Northern 
Democrats  and  rallied  them  in  support  of  it. 
Still  many  Democrats  were  against  it,  though 
most  of  the  Northern  Democrats  were  for  it. 
Governor  Seward,  and  other  distinguished 
Republicans  were  consulted,  and  it  is  univer- 
sally admitted  that  to  John  P.  Hale,  is  due 
the  credit  of  discovering  the  trick  and  defeat- 
ing the  Democratic-Know-Nothing  opposition 
to  the  bill,  the  entire  Republican  force  of  the 
Senate  voting  for  its  passage. 

It  was  agreed  that  the  Republicans  were 
to  keep  quiet,  while  the  Democrats  fought  the 
battle.  The  RepubUcan  Senators — fourteen 
in  number — sat  there,  all  for  the  bill,  whilst 
the  opposition  were  divided.  I  ask,  then,  if 
it  is  just  to  claim  the  glory  of  its  passage  for 
the  Democracy  ?  In  the  House  of  Represen- 
tatives it  was  mainly  indebted  for  its  passage 
to  the  support  of  the  Republican  members 
led  on  by  Mr,  Grow,  who  reported  the  bill. 

In  regard  to  the  gentleman's  astonishment 
at  the  allegation  of  the  resolutions,  I  will 
briefly  refer  to  some  of  the  evidence  upon 
which  it  might  be  predicated.  The  editor  of 
the  St.  Anthony  ExpresSy  who  is  one  of  then- 


own  party,  openly  declares  in  the  streets — 
"  Minnesota  shall  not  come  mto  the  Union 
"  now,  unless  she  comes  in  Democratic." 
"  What !  are  you  not  going  to  let  the  majority 
"  rule  ?"  "  No !"  he  says,  "  if  it  is  going  to 
"  put  power  into  the  hands  of  fanatics — and 
"the  Republicans  are  fanatics."  We  have 
also  evidence  to  the  same  effect  from  a  hi^er 
source  than  the  other  end  of  the  Capitol — a 
source  that  they  themselves  will  regard  as 
good  authority.  It  comes  from  St.  Peter, 
and  St.  Peter  is  almost  as  good  authori- 
ty as  St.  Paul.  It  is  a  resolution  in  the  pro- 
ceedings of  a  Democratic  meeting  pubhshed 
in  the  Pioneer  and  Democrat  of  to-day,  and 
is  as  follows : 

liesolved,  That  we  cordially  approve  of  the  stand 
against  fraud  and  injustice  which  the  Democratic 
delegation  have  made,  and  that  we  exhort  them  to 
adhere  to  their  position  at  all  hazards,  preferring 
rather  that  we  remain  as  a  Territory,  than  that  the 
odious  features  of  modern  Republicanism  shall  be 
thrust  upon  us  in  in  our  fundamental  law  against 
the  expressed  will  of  the  people." 

Such,  Mr.  President,  is  the  language  of 
their  own  organs  and  their  own  men ;  and 
hence  there  is  no  occasion  for  the  surprise  of 
the  President  of  the  minority  body,  that  the 
people  should  believe  it  is  their  intention,  by 
their  present  course  of  conduct,  to  defeat  the 
admission  of  Minnesota  into  the  Union  at 
this  time. 

It  shows  that  the  President  of  this  Con- 
vention, when  he  drew  those  resolutions,  was 
able  to  see  what  was  working  in  the  minds  of 
the  Democratic  leaders — a  thing  they  would 
like  to  conceal,  but  which  is  published  openly 
elsewhere,  and  the  organ  in  this  city  has  not 
sagacity  enough  to  see  how  it  exposes  them. 

The  gentleman  refers  to  the  Pembina  case, 
and  says : 

"Now,  sir,  I  cannot  conceive  how,  with  any 
regard  to  justice  or  precedent,  that  body  of  Repub- 
licans could  over  have  taken  the  position,  that  the 
Pembina  delegation  were  to  be  excluded  from  the 
Convention. 

I  am  as  much  surprised  at  that,  sir,  as  at 
any  other  thing  in  the  whole  speech ;  and  it 
the  more  surprises  me,  because  that  gentle- 
man has  so  recently  changed  front  upon  that 
question.  This  change  must  have  come 
over  him  since  this  Convention  organized. 
I  say  so,  because  I  can  hardly  think  it  prob- 
able that  he  could  have  changed  his  opinion 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Wxdsesdat,  Acgcst  5. 


307 


so  suddenly  before  he  came  to  this  place; 
for  I  had  occasion  to  know,  but  a  few  days 
before  he  came  here,  from  his  own  lips,  tiiat 
his  opinion  then  was  the  very  reverse  of 
that  I  have  read.  I  confess,  it  is  wholly  inex- 
plicable to  me,  that  the  gentleman  should 
express  his  astonishment,  that  any  person 
shall  think  just  as  he  thought,  less  than  a 
week  before. 

I  do  not  like,  Mr.  Pbesidext,  in  these 
remarks,  to  call  in  question  the  statements 
of  any  gentleman  of  that  body.  I  do  not 
like  to  be  placed  imder  the  necessity  of  con- 
tradicting any  man.  But  when  these  gentle- 
men take  it  upon  themselves  to  accuse  every 
member  of  this  Convention  with  a  want  of 
courtesy,  and  everything  that  characterizes 
the  gentleman,  they  must  not  complain  if  we 
take  the  trouble  to  contradict  them,  when  we 
know  them  to  be  in  the  wrong.  I  do  not  like 
to  charge  dishonesty  upon  any  man.  I  would 
gladly  think  it  all  a  mistake.  But  there  is  too 
sad  a  prochvity  to  mistake  around  us.  I 
will  say  then,  that  the  examples  before  us 
show  what  power  there  is  in  a  bad  cause  to 
make  men  change  front  and  position,  and  to 
assert  things  Vhich  they  would  not  do  for  their 
lives  under  ordinary  circumstances.  I  really 
hope  we  shall  never  be  so  imfortunate  as  to 
get  into  such  a  position  as  to  allow  those 
influences  to  have  such  an  effect  upon  us. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  I  move  to  lay  the 
resolutions  upon  the  table. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to. 

And  then,  on  motion  of  Mr.  FOSTER,  (at 
five  o'clock  and  ten  minutes)  the  Conventiwi 
adjourned. 


TWENTY-FIRST  DAY. 

"Wedsesday,  August  5th,  1857. 
The  Convention  met  at  nine  o'clock,  a.  m. 
Prayer  by  the  Chaplain,  Rev.  E.  D.  Neill. 
The  journal  of  yesterday  was  read  and  ap- 
proved. 

REPOKTS. 

Mr.  HOLLEY  from  the  committee  on 
Amendments  and  Revision  of  the  Constitu- 
tion made  the  following  report,  which  was 
read  a  first  and  second  time,  and  laid  upon 
the  table  to  be  printed,  viz  : 

"  Skctiox  1.  The  Legislature  may,  by  a  vote 
of  two-thirds  of  the  members  of  either  branch, 


propose  amendments  to  this  Constitution,  which 
proposed  amendments  tiiall  be  published  in  at 
least  one  newspaper  in  each  county  of  the  State, 
where  a  newspaper  is  published,  for  three  months 
preceding  the  next  election  for  Representatives  to 
the  Assembly,  and  at  such  election  shall  be  sub- 
mitted to  the  people  for  their  approval  or  rejec- 
tion ;  and  if  a  majority  of  the  votes  cast  at  such 
election  for,  and  agaiqst,  be  in  favor  of  such  amend- 
ments, they  shall  become  part  of  this  Constitution. 
When  more  than  one  amendment  shall  be  sub- 
mitted at  the  same  election,  they  shall  be  voted 
upon  separately. 

"Sec.  2.  Whenever  two-thirds  of  the  members 
of  both  branches  of  the  Legislature  shall  deem  it 
expedient  to  revise  this  Constitution,  they  may 
call  a  Convention  for  that  purpose,  making  by  law 
all  needful  provisions  relative  to  the  same. 

"Sec.  3.  At  the  regular  election  for  Repre- 
sentatives, in  the  year  1870,  and  every  twenty 
years  thereafter,  the  question  "Shall  the  Consti- 
tution be  revised?"  shall  be  submitted  to  the  peo- 
ple, and  if  at  such  election  a  majority  of  the  votes 
cast,  for  and  against  such  proposition,  shall  be  in 
favor  of  revision,  it  shall  be  the  duty  of  the  Leg- 
islature to  make  the  necessary  laws  providing  for 
the  assembling  of  such  Convention." 

Mr.  MANTOR  from  the  committee  on  En 
grossment  reported  back  report  No.  12,  on 
State  OflBcers  other  than  Executive,  as  cor- 
rectiy  engrossed. 

Mr.  FOLSOM  from  the  same  committee 
reported  back  as  correctly  engrossed,  report 
No.  8,  on  the  Legislative  Department 

BANKIXG,  4C. 

Mr.  COLBURN  from  the  committee  on 
Banking  and  Corporations,  other  than  Mimi- 
cipal,  to  whom  was  recommitted  report,  No. 
5,  made  a  report,  recommending  the  follow- 
ing amedments  to  the  report : 

"  Amend  section  one,  by  adding  thereto  the 
words  '  nor  shall  any  such  law  take  effect  until 
the  same  shall  have  been  submitted  to  a  vote  of 
the  people  at  some  general  election  and  shall  have 
been  approved  by  a  majority  of  all  the  votes  cast 
on  that  subject,  at  such  election.' 

"  Amend  section  two  by  inserting  in  the  third 
line  after  the  word  '  require'  and  before  the  word 
'  security'  the  words  '  ample  collateral'  and  strik 
ing  out  all  between  the  words  '  Treasurer'  in  the 
fifth  line  and  the  word  '  and'  in  the  eleventh  line.' 

"  Amend  by  striking  out  section  four. 

"  Amend  section  seven  by  substituting  the  word 
or'  for  the  word  'and'  in  the  second  line." 
(For  original  report  No.  5,  see  proceedings  of 

July  twenty -fourth.) 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  would  enquire  what 
course  that  report  would  take  under  our 
rules  ? 


308 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Wednesday,  August  5. 


The  PRESIDENT..  According  to  usual 
parliamentary  rules,  the  report  will  have  to  be 
considered  in  committee  of  the  Whole,  and 
the  amendments  then  acted  on. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  Must  the  report  be  laid 
ever  and  printed  under  the  rule  ? 

The  PRESIDENT.  It  need  not  be,  it  is 
in  order  to  move  to  refer  it  to  the  committee 
of  the  Whole. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.     I  make  that  motion. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to. 

Mr.  BATES.  I  now  move  that  the  Con- 
vention now  resolve  itself  into  the  committee 
of  the  Whole  upon  the  report  upon  Banking 
and  Corporations,  other  than  Municipal. 

Mr.  WILSON.  I  hope  we  shall  not  go 
into  committee  upon  that  subject  to-day,  but 
that  we  shaU  have  the  amendments  printed, 
so  that  every  member  of  the  Convention  may 
look  at  the  amendments  recommended  by  the 
committee. 

Mr.  BATES.  These  amendments  are  not 
very  lengthy.  There  is  only  one  additional 
clause  recommended,  and  the  balance  of  the 
report  are  recommendations  to  strike  out 
what  already  exists  in  the  report.  It  is  not 
worth  while  to  have  the  report  printed.  That 
will  cause  unnecessary  delay. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  think  there  will  be  no 
difficulty  in  understanding  the  report.  The 
amendments  recommended  are  very  simple, 
and  it  does  not  seem  to  me  worth  while  to 
have  them  printed.  I  hope  the  Convention 
will  go  into  committee. 

The  motion  of  Mr.  Bates  was  agreed  to, 
and  the  Convention  accordingly  resolved  itself 
into  committee  of  the  Whole,  (Mr.  Stan- 
NARD  in  the  Chair)  on  the  report  on  Bank- 
ing and  Corporations,  other  than  Municipal. 

Section  one  was  read  as  follows  : 

"  Corporations  for  Banking  purposes,  with  the 
necessary  powers  and  privileges  may  be  formed 
under  general  laws,  but  shall  not  be  created  by 
special  enactment." 

The  first  amendment  recommended  by  the 
committee  was  to  add  to  section  one  the  fol- 
lowuig : 

"Nor  shall  any  such  law  take  efl'cct  until  the 
same  shall  have  been  submitted  to  a  vote  of  the 
people  at  some  general  election,  and  shall  have 
been  approved  by  a  majority  of  the  votes  cast  on 
that  subject  at  such  election." 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  move  that  section  one, 
with  the  amendment  recommended  by  the 


Standmg  Committee  be  adopted  by  this  com- 
mittee. 

Mr.  THOMPSON.  We  are  in  committee 
of  the  Whole  and  acting  upon  the  report  of 
the'  Standing  committee,  and  the'proper  mo- 
tion would  be  that  the  committee  rise  and 
report  back  the  report  with  a  recommenda- 
tion that  the  amiendments  be  adopted. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  That  was  not  the  nature 
of  my  motion  at  all. 

Mr.  THOMPSON.  Then  I  misunderstood 
the  gentleman. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  wish  to  have  the  report 
open  to  discussion  on  each  section.  This  re- 
port has  never  been  discussed  to  any  consid- 
erable extent  in  this  committee.  The  only 
provision  which  came  before  the  committee, 
when  it  was  mider  consideration  before,  was 
the  second  section.  After  a  slight  discussion 
upon  that,  the  committee  rose  and  the  report 
was  recommitted.  My  motion  was  that  the 
committee  now  take  action  upon  the  first  sec- 
tion, and  the  recommendation  of  the  standing 
committee  to  amend  it,  and  that  the  amend- 
ment be  concurred  in  by  this  committee. 

The  CHAIRMAN.  The  Chair  understands 
that  if  this  special  report  of  the  standing 
committee  was  accepted  by  the  Convention, 
the  amendments  proposed  by  the  standing 
committee  become  part  of  the  bill  and  sub- 
ject to  amendment,  and  debate  as  an  original 
bill. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  Has  the  report  been  ac- 
cepted ? 

The  CHAIRMAN.  The  chair  does  not 
know  how  it  could  have  got  upon  the  general 
orders,  unless  it  was  accepted  by  the  Con- 
vention. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  The  only  action  upon  it 
was  to  refer  it  to  this  Committee  of  the 
Whole. 

Mr.  THOMPSON.  I  supposed  that  when 
the  Chairman  made  the  report,  and  it  was 
accepted  by  the  Convention,  it  would  occupy 
the  same  position  in  the  committee  of  the 
Whole  that  the  original  report  did,  and  that 
by  a  motion  that  the  committee  rise  and 
report  the  report  back  with  a  recommendation 
that  it  do  pass,  we  adopt  the  amendments 
recommended. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  There  was  no  motion 
made  to  accept  thjit  report,  nor  do  I  under- 
stand that  it  is  necessary  when  a  report  is 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES—Wedxksdat,  August  5. 


309 


made  to  the  Convention,  that  a  motion  should 
be  made  to  accept  it.  If  the  Convention 
receive  the  report  and  refer  it  in  any  manner, 
that  is  equivalent  to  accepting  it.  Thou^ 
not  formally  accepted,  I  think  the  Convention 
did  accept  it  by  referring  it. 

The  CHAIRMAN.  The  opinion  of  the 
Chair  is  that  this  report  could  not  have  been 
upon  the  general  order,  and  referred  to  the 
committee  of  the  Whole,  without  virtually 
having  been  accepted  by  the  Convention. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.     It  was  specially  referred. 

The  CHAIRMAN.  The  Chair  is  now,  for 
the  first  time,  informed  by  the  Secretary  that 
it  was  by  a  special  motion  that  this  report 
was  referred  to  the  commaittee  of  the  Whole. 
If  such  is  the  case,  the  report  stands  in  a 
different  position  from  what  it  would  have 
occupied  imder  ordinary  circumstances,  and 
it  ii  before  the  committee  for  their  specific 
action. 

Mr.  BALCOMBE.  I  hope  that  the  com- 
mittee will  not  rise  at  present,  but  that  it  will 
take  time  to  investigate  this  subject,  and 
thoroughly  discuss  the  many  important  fea- 
tures connected  with  it.  The  committee  of 
:'•"  Whole  is  the  proper  place  for  offering 
>  cuendments  and  for  general  consultation  over 
the  subject  matter. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  would  inquire  if  the 
motion  I  made  was  in  order? 

The  CHAIRMAN.  It  was,  and  is  now 
before  the  committee. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  The  standing  committee 
upon  Banking,  to  which  this  matter  was 
re-committed,  after  considering  the  subject  in 
all  its  lights,  have  come  to  the  conclusion  to 
change  somewhat  the  report  and  the  policy  to 
be  pursued  by  this  Convention,  so  &r  as 
their  recommendation  goes,  upon  the  subject 
of  Banking.  The  report,  as  it  ori^nally 
stood,  provided  merely  that  corporations  for 
banking  purposes,  might  be  formed  under 
general  laws,  and  that  they  should  not  be 
created  by  special  enactment ;  and  then  pro- 
vided what  should  be  the  basis  of  those  laws, 
without  providing  that  the  banking  law  should 
be  submitted  to  a  vote  of  the  people  for  their 
approval.  And  Mr.  Chatrmax,  the  reason 
that  was  urged  for  pui^uing  that  course  was 
this :  The  committee  were  unanimously  of 
opinion  that  the  people  of  the  proposed  State 
of  Minnesota  were  desirous  of  having  bank- 


ing corporations  established,  and  that  they 
were  desirous  of  having  them  established  im- 
mediately, without  any  unnecessary  delay 
but  at  the  same  time  that  they  would  inquire 
imperatively  that  that  system  should  be 
guarded  in  the  strongest  manner.  They 
therefore  at  first  proposed  to  the  Convention, 
that  the  L^islature  should  have  power  to 
pass  a  general  banking  law,  and  that  they 
should  be  required  imder  the  provisions  of 
that  law,  to  provide  for  the  registration  and 
countersigning  of  bills,  and  to  provide  for  the 
security  of  those  bills  in  a  certain  specific 
manner,  ^  that  the  people  looking  upon  the 
provision  of  the  Constitution,  should  be  able 
to  see  that  the  Legislature  had  it  not  in  their 
power  to  give  them  a  wild-cat  system. 

The  benefit  to  be  derived  fixim  that  plan 
was,  that  there  woxild  be  no  unnecessary 
delay.  The  first  Legislature  might  pass  a 
banking  law,  and  banks  might  be  instituted 
immediately  \^thout  waiting  for  a  popular 
vote.  But  upon  a  reconsideration  of  the  mat- 
ter, the  Committee,  as  I  said  before,  deter- 
mined to  alter  their  plan,  and  to  provide  that 
while  corporations  for  banking  purposes  might 
be  formed  by  general  laws,  and  not  otherwise, 
yet  that  these  general  laws  should  not  go  into 
effect  until  they  had  been  submitted  to  a 
direct  vote  of  the  people,  and  then  only  upon 
their  being  approved  by  a  majority  of  the 
votes  cast  upon  that  subject.  And  at  the 
same  time,  as  the  people  were  to  have  the 
right  to  pass  upon  the  banking  laws,  your 
committee  concluded  to  change  the  policy  in 
r^ard  to  requiring  a  specific  security  to  be 
^en,  and  to  substitute  in  the  place  of  the 
specific  security  provided  for  in  the  first 
report,  that  there  should  be  ample  collateral 
security  required, — leaving  it  for  the  Legisla- 
ture, in  the  first  place  to  provide  what,  in 
their  wisdom,  would  be  ample  collateral  secu 
rity,  and  then  leaving  it  for  the  people  to  de- 
termine whether  or  not  the  Legislature  had 
provided  what  they  were  willing  themselve.*!, 
to  consider  ample  security. 

For  one,  I  was  not  particulariy  in  fiiver  of 
the  change.  I  acquiesced  in  it  however,  and 
have  no  great  objection  to  it,  because  it  is  left 
with  the  people  to  determine  whether  or  not 
the  Legislature  have  complied  with  the  re- 
quirements of  the  proposed  section  second, 
and   have   giv^i   them  ample  security.    I 


310 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES- Wednesday,  August  5. 


would  not  take  back  one  word  I  said  the 
other  day,  in  committee,  in  regard  to  the 
most  stringent  rules  being  adopted  upon  the 
subject  of  banking.  But  takbg  the  ground 
that  the  people  can  determine  that  matter  for 
themselves,  I  hope  the  recommendation  of 
the  committee  upon  Banking,  in  respect  to 
section  one  particularly,  and  in  connection  with 
section  two,  will  be  adopted  by  this  commit- 
tee, and  recommended  to  the  Convention, 
because  I  believe  it  will  make  a  perfectly  safe 
system,  and  one  which  the  people  will  approve 
of  and  adopt  as  safe. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  I  woul4  enqmre 
whether  this  is  in  effect  the  Wisconsin  sys- 
tem. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  It  is  not.  There  is  this 
difference — the  Wisconsin  system  provides 
that  any  Legislature  may  submit  to  the  people 
first,  a  proposition  whether  or  not  they  wish 
any  banks ;  and  if  a  majority  of  the  people 
vote  in  favor  of  having  banks,  ^  that  then  the 
Legislature  may  pass  either  a  general  banking 
law,  or  they  may  grant  special  charters,  but 
that  none  of  those  laws  or  charters  shall  take 
effect  untU  they  have  again  been  submitted  to 
a  vote  of  the  people — thus  requiring  two  votes 
of  the  people.  We  do  not  propose  to  submit 
the  question  in  the  first  place,  whether  the 
people  want  banks,  and  in  the  second  place 
we  do  not  propose  to  allow  the  Legislature  to 
grant  special  charters. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  As  chairman  of  this 
committee,  it  may  be  expected  that  I  should 
make  some  explanation  of  this  matter,  but  as 
the  gentleman  from  St.  Anthony  has  kindly 
volimteered  to  relieve  me  from  that  duty,  it 
will  only  be  necessary  for  me  to  express  my 
own  views.  I  was  not,  I  am  not  now,  spec- 
ially in  favor  of  the  amendment  proposed  to 
section  one.  I  did  not  however  dissent  from 
the  views  of  a  majority  of  the  committee. — 
When  this  subject  was  before  the  committee 
of  the  Whole  before,  I  expressed  myself 
against  submitting  this  question  to  a  vote  of 
the  people,  and  upon  the  ground  that  I  am 
satisfied  that  the  people  of  the  Territory  are 
desirous  of  a  banking  system.  Still  it  was 
thought  by  a  majority  of  the  committee  that 
it  would  be  better,  whatever  law  might  be 
passed  by  the  Legislature,  to  submit  it  to  the 
people  before  it  should  go  into  effect.  It  was 
thought  that  a  law  thus  submitted  to  and  ap- 


proved by  the  people,  would  go  into  operation 
in  such  a  manner  as  to  give  greater  confidence 
to  the  people ;  and  not  only  to  the  people  of 
Minnesota,  but  to  the  people  of  other  States, 
and  that  the  paper  or  currency  issued  under 
that  system  \vould  have  a  better  credit. 

I  am  not  particular  whether  that  amend- 
ment be  adopted  or  not.  I  have  but  little 
feeling  in  regard  to  the  matter.  If  that  amend  - 
ment  is  adopted,  the  committee  will  see  that 
it  will  be  necessary  to  change,  to  a  considera- 
ble extent,  the  following  sections.  It  seems 
to  me  proper  that  this  committee  should  first 
decide  upon  the  proper  amendment  to  section 
one,  because  the  balance  of  the  report,  as  we 
have  proposed  to  amend  it,  is  based  upon  the 
amendment  to  the  first  section. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  In  looking  over  the 
different  banking  laws  in  the  constitutions  of 
the  different  States,  none  have  struck  me  so 
forcibly  as  the  Wisconsin  system,  and  from 
all  I  can  learn  of  the  workings  of  that  sys- 
tem, I  am  inclined  to  believe  that  it  works  as 
well  in  practice  as  it  appears  in  theory.  And 
here  I  would  say  that  I  think  the  committee 
have  done  well  in  not  recommending  that  we 
should  in  the  first  place,  submit  to  the  people 
the  question  whether  they  will  have  banks  or 
not.  That  seems  to  be,  in  the  Wisconsin 
system,  a  matter  of  surplusage.  The  Leg- 
islature can,  without  submitting  that  question, 
pass  a  general  banking  law,  and  then  they 
can  submit  the  whole  question  at  the  same 
time.  In  the  bankmg  law  they  can  also  de- 
termine whether  they  are  in  favor  of  banks 
or  not,  and  whether  the  system  devised  by 
the  Legislature  is  a  good  one,  and  one  that 
will  protect  the  bill-holders  especLilly.  It  is 
right  that  in  the  Constitution  we  should  at 
least  give  the  Legislature  power  to  create 
banking  corporations.  But  there  should  be 
some  safeguard,  and  that  is  secured  by  sub- 
mitting the  law  to  the  people  for  ratification  or 
rejection.  The  good  sense  of  the  people,  who 
are  directly  interested  in  the  matter,  express- 
ed through  the  ballot-box,  will  decide  whether 
the  system  is  a  good  one  or  not.  It  is  there 
fore  my  opinion  that  the  committee  have  hit 
upon  a  good  amendment,  and  I  shall  vote  for 
it  cheerfully. 

Mr.  CLEGHORN.  1  think  that  the  first 
section  is  a  complete  legislative  provision,  in 
itself  upon  this  subject  of  banking,  and  I 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Wedkesdat,  Augcst  5. 


311 


therefore  move  that  all  after  the  first  section 
be  stricken  out. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  The  gentleman  will  ob- 
serve by  looking  over  the  report,  that  some 
portions  of  it  refer  to  the  other  corporations 
then  banking,  though  the  first  section  refers 
only  to  banking  corporations.  I  hope  the 
whole  report  will  not  be  stricken  out  with 
that  exception,  because  if  it  is,  it  will  cut  ofi* 
evei-j-thing  but  banking  corporations. 

The  CHAIRMAN.  The  motion  of  tlie 
gentleman  from  St.  Anthony  (Mr.  Secombe,) 
has  preference. 

The  question  was  then  taken,  and  tie 
amendment  to  the  first  section  was  concurred 
in. 

"Sec.  2.  If  a  general  banking  law  shall  be  en- 
acted, it  shall  provide  for  the  registry  and  coun- 
tersigning, by  an  oflBcer  of  State,  of  all  bills  or 
paper  credit,  designed  to  circulate  as  money,  and 
require  security  to  the  full  amount  thereof,  to  be 
deposited  with  the  State  Treasurer,  in  United 
States  Stocks,  or  in  interest  paying  stocks  of  States 
in  good  credit  and  standing,  to  be  rated  at  ten  per 
cent,  below  their  average  value  in  the  City  of  New 
York,  for  the  thirty  days  next  preceeding  their 
deposit ;  and  in  case  of  a  depreciation  of  any  por- 
tion of  snch  stocks,  to  the  amount  of  ten  per  cent, 
on  the  dollar,  the  bank  or  banks  owning  said  stocks, 
shall  be  required  to  make  up  such  deficiency  by  de- 
positing additional  stocks ;  and  said  laws  shall  also 
provide  for  the  recording  of  the  names  of  all  stock- 
holders in  such  corporations,  the  amount  of  stock 
held  by  each,  the  time  of  transfer,  and  to  whom." 

The  recommendation  of  the  committee  is 
to  amend  section  two  so  that  it  shall  read  as 
follows : 

"Sec.  2.  If  a  general  banking  law  shall  be  en- 
acted, it  shall  provide  for  the  registry  and  coun- 
tersigning, by  an  oflScer  of  State,  of  all  bills  or 
paper  credit,  designed  to  circulate  as  money,  and 
require  ample  collateral  security  to  the  full  amount 
thereof,  to  be  deposited  with  the  State  Treasurer : 
and  said  law  shall  also  provide  for  the  recording  of 
the  names  of  all  stockholders  in  such  corporations, 
the  amouut  of  stock  held  by  each,  the  time  of 
transfer,  and  to  whom." 

Mr.  BALCOMBE.  I  move  to  strike  out 
the^  whole  of  section  two.  I  make  the  motion 
for  the  reason  that  in  the  first  section  we  pro- 
pose that  a  general  banking  law  shall  be 
formed  by  the  Legislature,  and  submitted  to 
the  people,  and  then  in  this  second  section  we 
attempt  to  dictate  to  a  great  extent,  what  that 
law  shall  be.  That,  I  think,  is  unnecessary. 
If  we  are  going  to  leave  this  matter  to  the 
Legislature  and  to  the  people,  let  us  leave  the 


whole  of  it,  in  all  its  minutia,  to  the  Legisla- 
ture, and  to  the  people.  The  subject  con- 
tained in  the  second  section  may  be  the  very 
one  upon  which  the  people  will  be  diTrided ; 
it  may  be  the  very  one  upon  which  there  may 
be  a  division  of  feeling,  sentiment  and  action, 
and  the  people  will  desire  to  have  a  voice  in 
that  matter.  We  ought  not  to  attempt  to 
fi:tune  a  part  of  a  banking  law,  and  leave  the 
other  parts  to  the  Legislature  and  the  people. 

I  therefore  hope  section  four  will  be  stricken 
out. 

Mr.  CLEGHORN.  I  beheve  my  motion, 
which  I  have  modified  so  as  to  include  only 
sections  two,  three,  four  and  five,  is  first  in 
order. 

The  CHAIRMAN.  The  first  question  is 
upon  the  motion  to  strike  out  those  sections. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  hope  the  motion  will  not 
prevail.  The  gentleman  firom  Winona  is  vrill- 
ing  to  leave  the  whole  matter  to  the  Legisla- 
ture and  the  people.  Well,  Mr.  Chaibman, 
he  might  as  well  say  that  he  is  willing  to  leave 
the  whole  matter  without  any  restriction 
whatever — even  without  the  first  section — to 
the  Legislature  and  the  people. 

Mr.  BALCOlklBE.  That  is  the  whole  sub- 
ject matter. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  Very  true,  but  without 
any  provision  whatever  in  the  Constitution,  I 
think  the  Legislature  would  have  the  right  to 
grant  banking  charters,  and  charters  for 
other  corporations,  and  we  might  say  we 
would  leave  the  whole  matter  to  the  people, 
because  the  people  are  going  to  approve 
of  the  action  of  the  Legislature,  and  if  they 
do  not  want  banks,  or  if  they  do  want 
banks,  they  will  choose  Representatives  who 
will  or  will  not  incorporate  them.  Now  I 
believe  the  people  want  banks,  but  they 
want  safe  and  secure  banks,  and  that  we 
ought  not  to  leave  it  to  the  Legislature  so 
that  they  may  go  to  work  at  their  first  session 
and  pass  a  general  law  that  in  all  human  proba- 
bility will  be  unacceptable  to  the  people.  If  the 
matter  is  left  simply  upon  section  one,  the 
first,  second,  and  every  subsequent  Leg- 
islature may  pass  a  law  which  will  be  voted 
down  every  time  by  the  people ;  and  the  ten- 
dency will  be  to  their  doing  that  very  thing.  I 
am  not  one  of  those  gentlemen  who  believe  in 
the  total  depravity  of  Legislators,  but  it  has 
been  very  well  said  in  this  Convention,  and  in 


812  MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Wednesday,  August  6. 


this  committee,  that  the  Legislature  is  liable  to 
to  be  influenced,  and  it  is  very  well  known  that 
the  Legislature  of  this  Territory  has  been  so  in- 
fluenced. It  is  well  known  that  our  Territory 
has  been  covered  over  with  charters  of  every 
kind  and  description.  Now  I  am  not  willing 
to  leave  it  for  a  future  Legislature  to  keep  the 
people  out  of  a  good  and  safe  banking  system 
by  having  it  in  their  power  to  submit  to  the 
people  every  year  a  wild  cat  concern,  and  no 
other.  I  want  the  Legislature  bound  to  make 
a  safe  banking  law,  and  one  which  in  the 
opinion  of  this  Convention,  will  be  acceptable 
to  the  people. 

The  provisions  of  section  second  are  very 
simple.     There  are  merely  three  requirements 
which  will  be  binding  upon  the  Legislature. 
The  first  is,  that  they  shall  provide  for  the 
registry  and   countersigning  of  bills  by  an 
ofiScer  of  the  State.     Now  is  there  any  gen- 
tleman in  this  Convention  who  supposes  for  a 
moment,  that  the  people  will  not  require  that 
those  bills  shall  be  registered  and  counter- 
signed ?     The  next  provision  is,  that  the  Leg- 
islature shall  require  ample  collateral  security 
for  the  bills  which  may  be  put  afloat.     Is 
there  any  gentleman  in  this  committee  who 
supposes  that  the  people  will  not  require  that  ? 
The  third  provision  is,  that  the  names  of  the 
stockholders,  the  amount  of  stock  held  by 
each,  the  time  of  transfer,  and  to  whom,  shall 
be  recorded.     Is  there  anything  imreasonable 
in  that  proposition,  which  the  people  of  the 
proposed  State  will  not  require  ?    It  seems  to 
me  not.    Then  if  there  are  propositions  which 
no  gentlemen  here  will  object  to,  which  no 
gentleman  here  would  claim  that  the  people 
would  object  to,   but  on    the    other    hand 
require,  I  say  it  is  right  and  fair  to  the  people 
of  the  [proposed  State  who  wish  banks,  to 
leave  it  in  the  power  of  the  Legislature  to 
send  out  to  them  every  year  a  law  which,  in 
all  probability,  will  be  refused,  and  thus  de- 
prive them  of  banks  ? — for  that  is  the  only 
way  in  which  they  can  get  them  ?     They  can 
grant  no  special  charters,  but   only  pass  a 
general  banking  law.     At  the  same  time  it 
leaves  it  to  the  Legislature  in  their  wisdom, 
subject  to  a  ratification  by  the  people,  to  pro- 
vide this  system,  and  what  security  shall  be 
considered  ainple.     The  other  provisions  of 
section  two  we  propose  to  strike  out. 
Section  throe  provides  that  no  law  shall  be 


passed,  sanctioning  in  any  manner,  directly 
or  indirectly,  the  suspension  of  special  pay- 
ment, by  any  corporation  issuing  bank  notes 
of  any  description.  Now  is  there  any  proba- 
bility that  any  respectable  portion  of  the 
people  of  the  State  of  Minnesota  would  object 
to  that  provision  ?  or  that  they  would  not 
absolutely  require  such  a  provision,  as  well 
as  the  provisions  of  section  five  ? 

Now  I  hope  we  shall  show  to  the  people  of 
Minnesota  that  we  are  not  going  to  allow  the 
Legislature  to  pass  charters,  and  pass  general 
laws  for  wild  cat  concerns,  such  as  have  flood- 
ed the  Western  world.  I  hope  the  idea  is 
not  to  be  sent  out  to  the  people,  that  the  first 
Legislature  will  be  allowed  to  flood  this  State 
with  swindling  concerns — because  under  the 
first  section,  without  further  restrictions,  the 
Legislature  can  pass  a  banking  law,  and  get 
the  people  thereafter  to  favor  it,  which  may 
operate  greatly  to  the  detriment  of  the  people 
of  the  State  of  Minnesota.  I  am  opposed 
to  that,  and  I  hope  the  recommendation  of 
the  committee  will  be  adopted. 

Mr.  BALCOMBE.     The  gentleman  from 
St.  Anthony  is  disposed  to  beg  the  question. 
He  takes  it  for  granted,  if  tliis  subject  is  left 
at  the  disposal  of  the  Legislature,  that  as  a 
matter  of  course,  a  banking  system  will  be 
presented  to  the  people  which  will  partake  of 
the  nature  of  the  wild-cat  system.     At  the 
same  time  he  contradicts  himself,  by  saying 
that  it  is  the  undoubted  wish  of  the  people, 
that  the  restriction  which  he  proposes  to  put 
into  the  Constitution,   should  be  put  upon 
banking  corporations,  and  at  the  same  moment 
he  asserts  that  in  all  human  probability  there 
is  not  a  gentleman  upon  tliis  floor  who  is  not 
in  favor  of  the  restrictions.     Now  if  every 
gentlemon  upon  this  floor  is  in  favor  of  those 
restrictions,  and  the  people  are  in  favor  of 
them,  I  would  ask  whether  it  is  not  reason- 
able  to  suppose   that  the  first  Legislature 
would  insert  those  restrictions  in  any  law  they 
might  frame  upon   the  subject?     Is  it  not 
liighly  fprobable  'i  I  am  disposed  to  believe 
that  you  could  not  elect  a  Legislature  in  this 
proposed  State,  wliich  would  not  impose  most 
of  those  restrictions  upon  banking  corpora- 
tions in  a  general  banking  law.     Were  I  in 
the  Legislature,  passing  upon  this  subject,  I 
should  certainly  insist  upon  the  restrictions 
wluch  are  contained  in  tliis  section  as  pro- 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Wedxesdat,  Avqvst  5. 


313 


posed  to  be  amended  by  the  committee,  and 
I  believe-  the  people  would  demand  it.  At 
the  same  time  I  believe  there  is  a  minority, 
and  perhaps  a  respectable  minority  in  the 
Territory,  which  would  oppose  many  of  those 
restrictions. 

But,  sir,  my  principal  [objection  to  this 
matter  is  this :  If  we  are  going  to  establish 
any  part  of  a  banking  system  in  the  Coflsti- 
tution,  let  us  go  the  whole  length,  and  make 
it  a  complete  system ;  let  us  go  into  the  minu- 
tia,  and  not  do  business  upon  a  half-way 
system.  The  gentleman  takes  it  for  granted, 
in  his  argument,  that  the  Legislature  will 
frame  some  wild-cat  system  which  will  be 
rejected  by  the  people.  I  do  not  suppose  any 
such  thing.  I  believe  the  people  will  feel  the 
necessity  of  having  banks,  and  that  they  will 
make  it  incumbent  upon  the  Legislature  to 
recommend  such  a  system  as  they  them- 
selves will  adopt ;  and  that  no  Legislature  in 
our  State  will  dare  to  recommend  any  other, 
after  the  example  we  have  had  in  the  States 
of  Wisconsin,  Illinois,  Iowa  and  other  States. 
I  take  it  for  granted  that  there  is  a  general 
disposition  to  adopt  the  present  banking  sys- 
tem of  "Wisconsin,  and  I  believe  our  first  Le- 
gislature would  recommend  that  system  sub- 
stantially, and  would  not  dare  to  do  other- 
wise. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  hope  the  motion  of  my 
colleague  will  not  prevail.  So  far  as  the 
second  section  is  concerned,  I  do  not  know 
that  there  is  any  particular  objection  to  stri- 
king it  out.  I  have  no  particular  feeling  in 
regard  to  it,  but  the  third  section  should  be 
retained  in  the  Constitution.  It  provides 
that  no  law  shall  be  passed  sanctioning,  in 
any  manner,  directly  or  indirectly,  the  sus- 
pension of  specie  payment  by  any  corporation 
issuing  bank  notes  of  any  description.  It 
seems  to  me  that  such  a  provision  should  be 
in  the  Constitution,  where  it  cannot  be  re- 
pealed. If  it  were  only  incorporated  into  a 
general  banking  law  passed  by  the  Legislature 
it  might  be  repealed,  if  suflBcient  influence 
could  be  brought  to  bear  upon  the  Legisla- 
ture, without  arousing  suspicion.  It  might 
be  repealed  without  the  general  [attention  of 
the  Legislatmre  being  called  to  it.  It  seems 
to  me  that  no  law  sanctioning  a  suspension 
of  specie  payment  should  ever  be  passed,  and 
it  certainly  can  do  no  harm  to  retain  this 
40 


section  in  the  Constitution,  and  then  there 
will  be  no  danger  of  any  attempt  being  made 
in  the  Le^slature  to  pass  any  such  law.  Such 
a  clause  would  commend  itself  to  the  minds 
of  the  people,  and  even  if  the  Legislature 
should  violate  it.  the  people  would  then  have 
a  veto  power  upon  the  action  of  the  Legisla- 
ture. This  would  also  serve  as  a  guide  to 
the  Legislatxire  in  passing  a  general  law, 
although  I  do  not  doubt  that  almost  any  legis- 
lative body  would  incorporate  such  a  provis- 
ion into  any  system.  There  is  nothing  in 
that  section  which  the  people  will  disagree 
upon. 

That  part  of  the  second  section  which  has 
been  stricken  out,  would  xmdobtedly  have 
caused  a  great  diversity  of  opinion  and  feel- 
ing, and  it  would  have  been  impossible  to 
unite  the  feelings  of  the  public  upon  those 
provisions.  Therefore  it  was  weU  to  strike  it 
out.  I  think  the  remainder  might  be  retained, 
and  I  feel  anxious  that  it  should  be. 

Mr.  PERKINS.  I  hope  the  second  section 
will  be  stricken  out. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  The  motion  is  to  strike 
out  section  two,  three,  four,  and  five.  I  call 
for  a  divison  of  the  question. 

Mr.  BALCOilBE.  A  division  of  the  ques- 
tion will  bring  the  Convention  to  a  vote  first 
upon  striking  out  section  two. 

Mr.  PERKINS.  I  am  opposed  to  incorpo- 
rating section  two  into  the  Constitution,  and 
I  think  the  other  sections  might  as  well  be 
stricken  out  too.  I  am  opposed  to  section 
two,  in  the  first  place,  because  it  is  matter  of 
legislation.  I  am  opposed  to  any  species  of 
legislation  being  incorporated  into  the  Consti- 
tution. The  objection  is  just  as  good  now  as 
it  was  at  the  commencement  of  our  session, 
when  so  much  was  laid  upon  that  subject. 
The  practice  should  be  discarded  and  dis- 
countenanced. In  my  opinion  the  Legisla- 
tures of  the  country,  and  especially  that  of 
Minnesota,  are  the  best  abused  bodies  now  in 
existence.  I  should  come  to  the  conclusion, 
judging  firom  what  has  been  said  upon  this 
floor,  that  our  Legislators  are  a  band  of  con- 
spirators to  rob  the  treasury,  and  crush  out 
the  liberties  of  the  people.  Such  seems  to  be 
the  opinion  of  many  gentleman  here,  and  if  I 
were  of  their  opinion  I  should  be  in  favor  of 
incorporating  into  the  Constitution  a  provision 
declaring  that  a  Legislature  should  never  exist 


314 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Wednesday,  August  5. 


in  the  State  of  Minnesota;  that  all  laws  should 
be  framed  by  this  Convention  and  be  contained 
in  this  Constitution.  I  do  not,  however,  look 
upon  the  Legislature  in  that  light.  I  look 
upon  a  Legislature  generally,  as  being  just  as 
honest  a  body  of  men  as  this  Convention,  and 
no  more  desirous  of  thwarting  the  good  inter- 
ests and  welfare  of  the  people.  T  am  of 
opinion  that  if  this  matter  is  left  to  the  Legis- 
lature under  one  general  article,  that  the  rights 
and  liberties  of  the  people  will  be  just  as 
much  respected  and  guarded  as  they  will  be 
by  this  Convention.  I  know  there  is  such  a 
thing  as  corruption  creeping  into  legislative 
bodies.  The  experience  of  the  past  shows 
that  And  I  know  too  that  selfishness  and 
corruption  creeps  into  all  bodies.  I  do  not 
think  the  Legislature  is  the  worst  body  that 
ever  existed. 

Then  I  say  it  is  not  an  argument  in  favor  of 
this  legislation  being  introduced  into  the  Con- 
stitution, that  legislators  are  sometimes  un- 
willing to  deal  fairly  with  the  people.  I  claim 
that  the  Constitution,  notwithstanding  that 
objection,  should  declare  only  fundamental 
principles,  and  that  those  matters  which  be- 
long properly  to  the  Legislature,  should  be 
referred  to  them.  If  I  understand  the  gen- 
tleman from  St.  Anthony,  (Mr.  Secombe,)  he 
said  that  though  the  people  were  anxious  for 
a  bankmg  law,  yet,  if  this  section  was  stricken 
out,  the  Legislature  might  defeat  the  will  of 
the  people.  I  have  no  doubt  but  that  is  the 
case.  But  if  the  Legislature  have  any  desire 
to  defeat  the  will  of  the  people  in  this  respect, 
they  can  do  it  under  the  report  as  it  now 
stands,  as  well  as  they  could  if  all  were  all 
stricken  out  but  the  first  section.  I  do  not 
understand  that  this  article  makes  it  impera- 
tive upon  the  Legislature  to  pass  a  banking 
law.  The  first  section  declares  that  they  may 
do  so,  and  the  second  section  says, "  if  agen- 
"  eral  banking  law  shall  be  enacted,"  implying 
that  it  is  the  discretion  of  the  Legislature  to 
enact,  or  refuse  to  enact  such  a  law.  They 
may,  by  refusing  to  act  on  the  subject,  defeat 
the  will  of  the  people  just  as  well  as  they  can, 
by  throwbg  before  the  people,  year  after 
year,  general  banking  laws  which  may  and 
will  be  refused  by  the  people. 

It  seems  to  me,  too,  that  the  gentleman 
from  St.  Anthony  betrays  a  great  lack  of 
confidence  in  the  wisdom  of  the  people  in  this 


regard.  It  seems  to  me  that  if  the  Legisla- 
ture pass  a  law  and  submit  it  to  the  people, 
and  the  people  themselves  adopt  it,  no  fault 
can  be  found  either  with  the  Legislature  or 
the  people  themselves.  I  apprehend  that 
when  a  law  is  submitted  to  the  people  of  the 
State  they  will  be  wise  enough  to  know  how 
to  vote  upon  it ;  and  know  what  is  their  best 
interest  at  the  time,  and  what  they  require. 

Mr.  BALCOMBE.  The  Wisconsin  system 
of  banking  is  now  looked  upon  as  the  best 
system  in  this  country.  It  is  tJte  system,  in 
my  estimation,  and  I  believe  it  has  become  so 
in  the  general  estimation  of  the  people,  and  it 
is  the  system  which  will  eventually  be  adopt- 
ed in  the  State  of  Minnesota.  That  system 
was  recommended  by  the  Legislature,  and 
adopted  by  the  people.  It  was  recommended 
by  the  Legislature,  under  the  following  section 
of  their  Constitution : 

"  The  Legislature  may  submit  to  the  voters  at 
any  general  election,  the  question  of  *  Bank  or  no 
Bank ; '  and  if  at  any  such  election,  a  number  of 
votes  equal  to  a  majority  of  all  the  votes  cast  at 
such  election  on  that  subject,  shall  be  in  favor  of 
Banks,  then  the  Legislature  shall  have  power  to 
grant  Bank  Charters,  or  to  pass  a  general  banking 
law,  with  such  restrictions  and  under  such  regula- 
tions as  they  may  deem  expedient  and  proper  for 
the  security  of  the  bill-holders ; 

"  Provided,  That  no  such  grant  or  law  shall  have 
any  force  or  effect  until  the  same  shall  have  been 
aubmitted  to  a  vote  of  the  electors  of  the  State  at 
some  general  election,  and  been  [approved  by  a 
majority  of  the  votes  cast  on  that  subject  at  such 
election." 

There,  the  Legislature  had  the  choice  either 
to  grant  special  charters  or  pass  a  general 
banking  law.  Now  which  did  the  Legislature 
choose  ?  They  passed  a  general  banking  law 
and  submitted  it  to  the  people. 

Now  I  am  disposed  to  leave  this  subject 
just  as  the  Wiscon.sin  Constitutional  Conven- 
tion chose  to  leave  it  there,  and  I  would  be 
willing  to  take  the  language  of  their  Constitu- 
tion and  insert  it,  word  for  word,  into  our 
Constitution  and  there  drop  the  subject.  As 
the  result  of  their  course,  they  have  the  best 
banking  system  in  the  United  States. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  desire  that  this  matter 
may  be  thoroughly  considered.  The  gentle- 
man from  Winona  says  I  distrust  the  Legis- 
lature and  the  people ;  that  I  take  it  for  a  cer- 
tainty, or  a  matter  which  is  to  be  granted  up- 
on all  hands,  that  the  Legislature  will  pass  a 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— "Wednesdat,   August  5. 


315 


wild-cat    system  of    banking.      Now,    Mr. 
CnAiKMAX,  I  have  no  other  guide  for  the  fu- 
ture than  the  past ;  and  I  have  lived  too  long 
in  the  Territory  of  Minnesota,  and  observed 
the  workings  of  the  Legislature  of  the  Terri- 
tory of  Minnesota,  to  have  any  other  feeling 
in  regard  to  that  Legislature  than  a  feeling  of 
distrust ;  and  I  call  the  gentleman  from  Wi- 
nona (Mr.  Balcombe,)  to  bear  me  witness 
that  the  past  legislation  of  this  Territory  upon 
the  subject  of  corporations,  will  justify  that 
distrust.     I  have  seen,   and  the  gentleman 
from  Winona  has  seen,  men  elected  to  the 
Legislature  of  this  Territory  upon  the  sole 
ground  of  their  opposition  to  a  special  incor- 
poration in  this  Territory.     Elected,  I  say, 
solely  to  oppose  it,  there  being  no  other  ques- 
tion in  issue  ;  and  when  the  time  came  that 
they  were  to  vote  in  the  Legislature,  they 
wilted  like  grass  before  the  scythe,  and  voted 
against  every  principle,  for  which  they  were 
elected  to  vote.     I  have  seen,  and  the  gentle- 
man from  Winona  has  seen,  the  public  press 
of  this  Territory  that  has  spoken  for  years  in 
the  strongest  terms  against  a  certain  act  of 
incorporation  in  this  Territory,  and  when  the 
moment  of  need  came,  those  who  had  charge 
of  the  press,  deserted  their  posts,  and  left  the 
Temtory,  and  the  voice  of  that  press  has 
come  out  in  opposition  to  the  very  thing  they 
had  advocated  for  years.     I  have  seen,  and 
the  gentleman  from  Winona  has  seen,  the  ex- 
ecutive oflScer  of  this  Territory,  who  has  a 
part  in  legislation,  after  he  has  protested  in 
every  shape  possible,  in  all  the  language  he 
could  command,  against  a  certain  act  of  in- 
corporation and  influences  connected  with  it, 
when  the  time  has  come  for  him  to  act  in  the 
matter,  get  down  upon  his  knees  in  the  dust, 
eat  his  own  words,  and  show  himself  up  as  an 
instance  of  the  power  which  has  been  broiight 
to  bear  upon  the  Legislature  of  the  Territory 
of  Minnesota. 

Now  then,  I  say,  in  the  light  of  these  ex- 
amples, it  is  the  duty  of  this  Convention,  to 
guard  in  tlie  strongest  terms  against  future 
results  similar  to  those  which  have  occurred 
in  the  past. 

The  gentleman  from  Rice  covmty  (Mr.  Per- 
kins,) also  says,  that  I  distrust  the  people. 
I  do  not  distrust  the  people  as  a  general  thing, 
but  in  this  particular  instance  I  say  that  the 
people  may  be  forced  by  the  Legislature  to 


act  upon  the  principle  that  half  a  loaf  is  bet- 
ter than  no  bread.  I  say  that  the  people  of 
this  Territory,  being  anxious  for  and  desirous 
of  a  banking  system,  may  be  called  upon  by 
the  Legislature,  either  to  vote  for  that  which 
they  themselves  know  is  not  safe,  or  to  vote 
against  having  any  banks  at  all. 

The  influences  which  are  brought  to  bear 
upon  Legislatures  do  not  pervade,  I  hope,  to 
any  fextent,  this  Convention.  This  Conven- 
tion has  not  the  power  of  granting  charters 
for  banks,  nor  of  passing  banking  laws.  I 
have  not  heard  of  any  money  being  circulated 
here  to  influence  any  member  of  this  Conven- 
tion. I  think  that  no  such  thing  ever  will  be 
attempted.  But  if  the  Legislature  has  sole 
control  of  this  matter,  without  any  restriction 
whatever,  I  believe  we  are  not  safe  from  the 
influences  which  have  operated  upon  past 
Legislatures,  and  the  result  will  be  that  the 
Legislature  will  send  out  to  the  people  a  sys- 
tem which  they  will  either  be  obliged  to  vote 
down,  because  they  disapprove  of  it,  or  be 
obliged  to  accept,  rather  than  to  have  no 
system. 

The  question  was  taken  on  the  motion  to 
strike  out  sections  two,  three,  four,  and  five, 
and  it  was  lost. 

The  question  was  then  taken  on  concurring, 
in  the  amendment  recommended  by  the  stand- 
ing committee,  to  section  two,  and  it  was  con- 
curred in. 

The  next  amendment  recommended  by  the 
committee,  was  to  strike  out  section  four, 
which  is  as  follows : 

Sec.  4.  The  stockholders  in  every  corporation 
or  association  for  banking  purposes,  issuing  any 
kind  of  paper  credits  to  circulate  as  money,  shall 
be  individually  responsible  for  its  debts  and  liabil- 
ities of  every  kind. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  move'that  this  commit- 
tee concur  in  the  recommendation  to  strike 
out  that  section. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  I  do  not  rise  for  the 
purpose  of  making  a  speech  in  regard  to  this 
matter,  but  I  wish  it  distinctly  understood 
that  so  far  as  I  am  concerned,  I  am  totally 
opposed  to  striking  out  that  section. 
The  amendment  was  concurred  in. 
The  next  amendment  recommended  by  the 
committee,  was  to  strike  out  the  word  "and " 
and  insert  "  or  "  in  section  seven,  which  reads 
as  follows : 


316 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— "Wednesday,  August  5. 


Sec.  7.  Dues  from  corporations,  other  than 
banking,  shall  be  secured  by  such  individual  lia- 
bility of  the  corporators,  and  other  means  as  may 
be  prescribed  by  law. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  move  that  that  amend- 
ment be  concurred  in. 

Mr.  MORGAN.  I  would  take  this  occa- 
sion to  ask  the  committee  to  explain  the  mean- 
ing of  that  section,  and  how  it  is  understood 
that  it  is  to  be  appUed. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  presume  the  gentle- 
man understands  it  as  well  as  the  committee. 
He  vmderstands  the  use  of  the  English  lan- 
guage as  well  as  any  one  here.  "  Dues  from 
"  corporations,  other  than  banking,  shall  be 
"  secured  by  such  individual  liability  of  the 
"  corporators,  and  other  means,  as  may  be 
"prescribed  by  law."  Now  there  may  be 
corporations  formed — as  is  done  in  some 
States — where  it  may  be  proper  to  make  the 
corporators  individually  responsible  for  all 
the  labor  performed  for  the  corporation,  so 
that  the  laborers,  if  it  becomes  bankrupt  as  a 
body  corporate,  will  be  safe.  There  are  many 
cases  of  that  kind  arising,  and  it  is  not  unfre- 
quently  the  case  that  when  special  acts  of 
incorporation  are  granted,  the  individual  mem- 
bers of  the  company  are  held  responsible,  to 
a  certain  extent,  either  for  labor  or  mate- 
rials, or  both.  In  Massachusetts  you  will 
find  repeated  instances  of  that  kind,  where 
special  charters  are  granted.  Section  six 
provides  that  in  certain  cases,  the  Legislature 
may  grant  special  acts  of  incorporation ;  or 
in  other  words,  if  they  are  of  opinion  that 
the  objects,  for  which  the  special  act  is  asked 
for,  cannot  be  attained  under  general  laws, 
they  may  grant  a  special  charter.  In  cases 
of  that  kind  it  may  be  necessary  to  secure 
dues  from  that  corporation  in  some  particular 
manner,  either  by  making  stockholders  indi- 
vidually liable  to  a  certain  extent,  or  by  pro- 
viding some  other  means.  This  section  leaves 
the  Legislature  to  exercise  that  power  in  such 
cases  according  as  circumstances  may  require. 
We  recommend  to  strike  out  "  and,"  and  to 
insert  "  or,"  so  as  to  leave  it  with  the  Legis- 
lature to  make  the  corporation  liable  in  such 
way  as  they  think  best. 

Mr.  MORGAN.  There  may  bo  cases 
where  it  would  be  proper  for  the  Legislature 
to  make  some  peculiar  provision  to  secure  the 
payment  of  the  dues  of  a  corporation,  but  at 


the  same  time  this  section  makes  it  necessary, 
in  every  charter  granted  for  corporations 
hereafter,  for  the  Legislature  to  provide  either 
that  the  stockholders  shall  be  individually 
liable,  or  some  other  peculiar  security  for  the 
payment  for  debts',  which  have  not  existed 
heretofore.  If  we  look  into  our  statute  book, 
we  will  find  a  great  number  of  objects  for 
which  acts  of  incorporation  have  been  granted, 
such  as  the  building  of  railroads,  the  buildmg 
of  bridges  and  a  great  many  other  things,  in 
which  acts  of  incorp  rations  there  are  no 
peculiar  provisions  for  the  security  of  the 
debts  of  those  corporations ;  and  this  section 
seems  to  require  that  all  corporations  hereaf- 
ter shall  be  required  to  make  some  peculiar 
and  extraordinary  provisions  for  the  payment 
of  debts,  which  have  not  existed  heretofore. 
There  are  no  less  than  six  corporations  for 
building  bridges  across  the  Mississippi,  within 
ten  miles  of  this  place,  and  a  great ,  many 
more  above  the  Falls  of  St.  Anthony.  There 
are  a  great  number  of  charters  granted  for 
building  bridges  across  other  streams ;  several 
for  plank  roads,  and  for  other  purposes,  none 
of  which  contain  such  a  provision.  Now 
tQ  apply  this  provision  to  all  incorporations 
hereafter,  will  be  unfair  and  unjust  to  certain 
sections  of  this  Territory. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  In  reply  to  the  gentle- 
man, I  will  say  that  the  general  rule  under 
this  article  is,  that  no  special  charter  shall  be 
granted  for  any  corporation;  consequently 
the  general  rule  is,  that  there  is  a  general  law. 
Therefore  the  provisions  which  might  be 
adopted  by  the  Legislature  for  securing  dues 
of  corporations,  would  be  general  provisions. 
If  any  special  charters  are  granted,  it  is  true 
there  might  be  some  special  provisions  in 
those  special  charters  for  securing  dues  from 
tliose  special  corporations. 

Mr.  MORGAN.  I  move  to  strike  out  the 
word  "  shall "  from  the  first  line  of  the  sec- 
tion, and  insert  the  word  "may." 

The  CHAIRMAN.  The  first  question  is 
upon  tlio  motion  to  concur  in  the  recommen- 
dation of  the  committee  to  strike  out  "  and  " 
and  insert  "  or." 

The  amendment  was  concurred  in. 

Mr.  FOSTER.  It  seems  to  me  that  this 
whole  section  is  superfluous,  and  if  you  in- 
tend to  make  a  Constitution  clear  of  unneces- 
sary verbiage,  I  think  we  had  better  strike  it 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Wednesday,  August  5. 


317 


out.  It,  after  all,  leaves  with  the  Legislature 
a  power  which  they  would  have  at  any  rate,  if 
this  section  were  not  in  the  Constitution.  It 
amoimts  to  nothing  else.  "  Or  other  means 
"  as  may  be  prescribed  by  law."  The  Legis- 
lature may  prescribe  something  merely  nom- 
inal— twenty-five  dollars  deposited  with  the 
County  Treasurer,  for  instance.  I  move  to 
strike  out  the  whole  section. 
The  motion  was  not  agreed  to. 

Mr.  MORGAN.  I  now  move  to  strike  out 
"  shall"  and  insert  "  may." 

Mr.  GALARAITH.  What  would  the  sec- 
tion be  worth  then  ?  What  should  it  be  in 
the  Constitution  for  ?  Is  it  not  a  power  in- 
herent in  the  Legislature  to  create  corpora- 
tions ?     Why  insert  a  truism  ? 

"  Dues  from  corporations,  other  than  banking 
shall  be  secured  by  such  individual  liability  of  the 
Stockholders  or  other  means  as  may  be  prescribed 
by  law." 

Have  not  the  Legislature  the  power  to  do 
that,  witiiout  putting  it  into  the  Constitution  ? 
The  section  as  it  now  stands  is  of  no  earthly 
use.  It  is  a  mere  truism.  But  it  can  do  no 
harm.  There  is  that  much  to  be  said  in  its 
favor.  It  says  dues  shall  be  secm-ed  by  such 
individual  liability  or  otherwise  as  the  Legis- 
latiu-e  may  think  proper.  It  is  somewhat 
binding  upon  the  Legislature  that  there  shall 
be  some  individual  Uability,  and  "  may  be" 
is  perfectly  useless  in  any  case.  If  the  Legis- 
lature have  not  the  power  already,  the  "  may 
be,"  may  confer  power.  But  do  not  they 
possess  the  power  already  to  create  corpora- 
tions, and  have  they  not  the  power  to  put  any 
restrictions  upon  them  they  please,  even  to 
prohibition  ? 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  hope  the  amendment 
will  not  prevail.  As  said  by  the  gentleman 
from  St.  Anthony,  the  general  rule  is  that 
corporations  shall  be  formed  under  general 
laws.  If  a  body  of  men  come  forward  and 
ask  for  a  special  act,  they  ask  for  an  excep- 
tion to  the  general  rule,  and  if  special  privi- 
leges are  granted,  I  beUeve  the  Legislatture 
should  secure  the  payment  of  dues  fix>m  such 
a  corporation,  in  some  manner,  and  that  it 
should  not  be  left  to  the  Legislature  to  say 
whether  they  will  or  will  not  require  it. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  wish  to  say  a  word 
more.  The  ninth  section  of  this  article  de- 
fines^what  is  meant  by  the  term  "corpora- 


tions." It  is  to  be  construed  to  include  all 
associations  and  joint  stock  companies  having 
any  of  the  powers  and  privileges  of  corpora- 
tions not  possessed  by  individuals  or  part- 
nerships ?  In  other  words  a  corporation  is  an 
association  of  persons — but  it  may  be  a  single 
person — invested  by  the  Legislature  with 
some  privileges  that  they  would  not  have 
without  an  act  of  incorporation.  Now  let  us 
see  what  would  be  the  liabilities  of  those  per- 
sons without  an  act  of  incorporation.  Indi- 
viduals, for  instance,  associate  themselves  by 
partnership,  and  they  are  individually  liable, 
each  man  of  them,  for  all  the  debts.  Now 
they  come  to  the  Legislature  and  ask  that 
they  may  be  incorporated — that  is  that  they 
may  have  some  additional  privileges  that  they 
did  not  have  before,  and  at  the  same  time  that 
they  do  that,  they  invariably  ask  that  they 
shall  be  relieved  from  the  responsibility  which 
existed  before — in  other  words,  that  while 
they  have  privileges  which  they  did  not  before 
possess,  they  shall  now  be  relieved  from  any 
individual  liability  for  tlie  debts  of  the  whole 
concern.  And  the  Legislature  usually  grants 
them  what  they  ask.  In  some  instances  they 
provide  that  they  shaU  be  individually  liable 
to  the  amount  of  the  stock  which  they  hold. 
Now  the  intention  of  this  provision  is — and 
it  is  one  which  occurs  in  the  Constitution  of 
almost  every  State — that  the  Legislature  shall 
not,  while  they  grant  to  individuals,  under 
corporations,  special  privileges,  relieve  them 
from  all  the  obhgations  they  were  under  with- 
out such  an  act. 

Mr.  MORGAN.  K  it  does  not  mean  any- 
thing, it  ought  not  to  be  in  the  Constitution.  ' 
If  it  does  really  mean  something,  then  it  will 
operate  unfairly.  I  do  not  wish  hereafter,  if 
another  company  wishes  to  build  another 
bridge  across  the  Mississippi  river,  at  Saint 
Paul,  they  shall  be  put  under  a  restriction 
which  was  not  put  upon  the  first  company. 
Or  if  the  Gas  company  of  St.  Paul  should 
become  such  a  monopoly,  that  the  people 
shouldj  require  another  company,  that  that 
new  company  shall  not  be  required  to  come 
under  some  restriction,  as  to  the  payment  of 
its  debts,  which  do  not  exist  in  reference  to 
the  first  company.  If  it  really  means  n'oth- 
ing,  and  it  is  not  intended  that  the  Legislatiu-e 
shall  hereafter  impose  any  restrictions  more 
than  have  been  imposed  upon  corporations 


$18 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Wednesday,  August  5. 


which  now  exist,  it  ought  not  to  be  in'  the 
Constitution.  If  it  does,  it  operates  unfairly 
in  favor  of  corporations  already  existing,  and 
against  those  which  are  to  be  formed  here- 
after. 

The  question  was  then  taken  on  the  amend- 
ment offered  by  Mr.  Morgan,  and  it  was  not 
agreed  to. 

And  then  on  motion  of  Mr.  BATES,  the 
committee  rose  and  reported  the  report  to  the 
Convention,  with  a  recommendation  that  the 
amendments  made  in  committee  of  the  Whole 
be  adopted. 

The  amendments  to  the  first,  second  and 
seventh  sections  were  concurred  in. 

The  question  being  upon  concurring  in  the 
amendment  to  strike  out  the  fourth  section  as 
follows : 

"Sec.  4.  The  stockholders  in  every  corpora- 
tion or  association  for  banking  purposes,  issuing 
any  kind  of  paper  credits  to  circulate  as  money, 
shall  be  individually  responsible  for  its  debts  and 
liabilities  of  every  kind." 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  I  demand  the  yeas 
and  nays. 

The  yeas  and  nays  were  ordered. 

The  vote  was  taken  by  yeas  and  nays,  but 
confusion  in  the  record  arising,  from  members 
changing  their  votes,  a  new  call  of  the  roll 
was  ordered. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  Before  the  question  is 
taken  again  I  wish  to  say  a  few  words.  It 
has  been  said  to-day  upon  this  floor,  that  the 
people  of  this  Territory  are  in  favor  of  banks. 
Whether  that  is  so  or  not  I  do  not  profess  to 
know.  If  it  be  so,  why  put  a  clause  in  your 
constitution  which  will  prohibit  men  of  capital 
who  have  a  particle  of  financial  sense  abolit 
them,  from  engaging  in  the  business  of  bank- 
ing? This  section  will  drive  capital  out  of  the 
business,  and  make  wild-cat  banks?  Men  of 
solid  means  are  not  going  into  banking  for 
the  accommodation  of  the  community,  but  for 
their  own  benefit,  and  such  resultant  benefits 
as  the  community  may  receive  from  it.  Men 
of  capital  want  to  make  money.  There  is  no 
use  in  disguising  that  fact.  In  the  first  place, 
you  require  in  this  article  that  they  sliall  de- 
posit ample  collateral  security,  and  then  you 
require  that  every  individual  shall  be  individ- 
ually liable  for  all  the  debts  of  the  concern. — 
Now  what  man  is  going  to  risk  his  all  in 
banks?  Hero  A,  B  and  C  unite  in  a  banking 
concern,  A  and  B  owning  one  tenth  each,  and 


C  eight  tenths  of  the  capital.  C  is  a  man  of 
means,  and  perhaps  has  invested  all  he  is 
worth,  A  and  B  may  control  the  affairs  of 
the  bank  in  some  way,  and  create  debts  which 
the  bank  is  unable  to  pay,  and  C  is  ruined 
forever.  Every  stockholder  in  the  bank  is 
bound  for  all  the  debts  of  the  corporation. 
That  will  kill  any  banking  system  in  the  world. 
Why  ask  of  those  men  collateral  security  if 
you  are  going  to  hold  them  to  strict  individual 
liability?  In  many  States  each  stockholder  is 
held  liable,  not  only  for  the  amount  of  the 
stock  he  subscribed  for,  but  for  double  that 
amount.  That  is  all  well.  But  to  require  a 
man  to  be  bound  for  the  whole  amount  of  the 
debts  of  the  corporation,  is  not  well.  Sup- 
pose every  corporator  in  that  bank  but  one 
should  become  bankrupt,  and  the  bank  should 
fail;  a  crushing  weight  falls  upon  that  one 
man.  He  may  be  a  good  man.  He  may  not 
be  even  an  officer  in  the  bank.  He  may  have 
put  his  money  in,  in  good  faith,  to  have  it  in 
a  secure  place.  All  the  corporators  of  the 
bank  break  up  and  become  insolvent  and 
bankrupt;  the  bank  closes,  and  all  the  debts 
of  the  bank  fall  upon  that  honorable  man,  who 
was  the  life-blood  of  the  bank.  He  is  ruined. 
What  capitalist  will  put  his  money  into  a  bank 
upon  such  conditions?  If  we  say  that  the 
people  of  a  Territory  are  in  favor  of  banks, 
let  us  prescribe  a  liberal  system.  Here  we 
have  left  it  to  the  Legislature  and  to  the  peo- 
ple to  say  what  system  we  shall  have.  That 
is  a  sufficient  safeguard.  First  the  Legisla- 
ture has  the  power  to  pass  a  general  banking 
law ;  second,  the  Governor  has  a  veto  power 
over  the  law,  and  thirdly  the  people  have  a 
right  to  pass  upon  it,  before  it  can  go  into  op- 
eration. What  greater  security  do  the  peo- 
ple want  than  themselves  ?  The  whole  ques- 
tion is  placed  before  them.  What  more  do 
we  want. 

Gentlemen  were  very  anxious  here,  yester- 
terday,  to  leave  everything  to  the  Legislature'; 
but  these  very  gentlemen  to-day,  in  a  matter 
wherein  we  provide  specifically  that  the  peo- 
ple shall  have  the  right  to  decide  the  matter, 
will  put  in  restrictions,  when  they  say,  at  the 
same  time,  that  they  know  that  the  people  of 
the  Territory  are  in  favor  of  having  banks, — 
They  put  a  clog  upon  the  banking  system  ' 
which  will  create  nothing  but  wild-cat  banks. 
Capitalists  will  never  engage  in  banking  ulider 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Wednesday,  August  5. 


319 


such  a  system.  Fancy  men — men  who  make 
their  money  out  of  nothing — men  who  get  up 
chalk-milk  pumps,  and  make  India  rubber 
out  of  any  kind  of  gum,  may  engage  in  it, 
and  become  individually  liable ;  but  what  is 
their  liability  worth?  They  will  borrow  as 
much  money  as  they  can,  stuff  it  into  their 
pockets,  and  where  is  your  recourse?  But 
the  man  who  has  made  his  money  by  hard 
labor,  will  never  risk  it  in  an  institution  with 
such  a  clog  upon  it  as  that. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  hope  this  motion  will 
prevail,  agreeing  as  I  do,  heartily  with  the 
views  just  expressed ;  and  my  only  object  in 
changing  my  vote  was  to  move  to  reconsid- 
er, if  the  question  was  decided  in  the  nega- 
tive. I  believe  that  we  have  provided  suffi- 
cient security  in  the  sections  which  precede 
and  follow  this,  for  a  safe  banking  system. — 
If  we  have  done  that,  it  is  aU  any  man  can 
reasonably  ask.  I  do  not  want  to  impose 
such  restrictions  as  shall  prevent  the  creation 
of  banks — good  and  reliable  banks.  We  have 
provided  that  there  shall  be  ample  collateral 
security.  What  is  the  necessity  for  anything 
more  ?  There  is  no  necessity  for  it,  and  it  cer- 
tainly would  operate  as  a  great  objection  to 
any  system,  and  deprive  the  people  of  what 
they  want — a  good  and  safe  system  of  bank- 
ing. I  hope  gentlemen  will  consider  the  mat- 
ter carefully  before  they  vote  upon  the  propo- 
sition. 

Mr.  BATES.  I  do  hope  gentlemen  will 
consider  this  matter  coolly  before  voting  again. 
It  seems  to  me  that  the  question  was  not 
fully  vmderstood.  The  members  of  this  Con- 
vention did  not  imderstand  the  extent  to 
which  they  were  going.  I  verily  believe  that 
if  this  section  is  allowed  to  remain  it  will  for- 
ever exclude  banks  from  our  State, — and  we 
all  conciu-  in  the  opinion  that  our  people  wish 
for  banks,  and  that  they  wish  for  them  upon 
a  safe  and  firm  foundation.  Have  not  we  pro- 
vided for  that?  We  have  provided  for  ample 
collateral  security  in  the  first  place.  In  the 
next  place  we  have  provided  that  no  banking 
law  should  go  into  operation  until  it  shall 
have  been  submitted  to  the  people,  and  re- 
'ceived  a  majority  of  the  votes  cast  for  and 
against  it.  What  more  can  gentlemen  ask  ? 
Is  not  that  safe? 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  As  I  happened  to  be 
one  of  those  members  who  voted  against 


striking  out  tliis  section,  I  desire  to  give  a 
few  of  the  reasons  which  induced  me  to  take 
that  position.  So  fer  as  I  am  concerned,  I 
think  I  have  carefully  considered  this  ques- 
tion. I  am  satisfied  in  my  own  mind  what 
my  duty  is  in  regard  to  it.  The  gentleman 
from  Scott  coxmty  (Mr.  Galbraith,)  has  in- 
timated that  it  is  the  desire  of  the  people  of 
Minnesota  to  have  a  banking  system. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  My  statement  was, 
that  other  gentlemen  upon  this  floor,  had  so 
stated — taking  it  for  granted — but  that  I  did 
not  take  it  for  granted. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  We'll  admit  that  it  is 
the  wish  and  desire  of  the  people  to  have  a 
banking  system  ;  I  do  not  pretend  to  say  but 
what  such  is  their  desire.  But  in  my  judg- 
ment, if  they  do  desire  it,  they  desire  a  sound, 
a  safe,  and  a  reliable  system.  For  my  own 
part,  as  an  individual,  I  am  not  much  in  favor 
of  banks  or  banking  operations.  However,  I 
do  not  propose  to  follow  out  that  position,  but 
I  wish  to  call  the  attention  of  the  Convention 
to  csrtain  reasons  assigned  here,  why  this 
section  should  be  stricken  out.  In  the  first 
place,  it  is  insisted  that  if  this  section  is  al- 
lowed to  remain,  it  will  operate  substantially 
as  an  exclusion  of  any  kind  of  a  banking  sys- 
tem. Now,  Mr.  Chairjian,  I  do  not  under- 
stand that  that  will  be  .the  result.  If,  as  has 
been  intimated  here,  our  men  of  capital  will 
refuse  to  go  into  banking  operations  under 
this  section,  it  seems  to  me  that  there  must 
be  a  reason  for  it.  What  can  that  reason 
possibly  be  ?  If  men  are  allowed  to  throw 
their  bills  of  credit  out  into  the  world  to  have 
them  circulate  as  a  monied  medium,  in  my 
judgment  they  ought  to  be  willing  to  place 
themselves  in  such  a  position  that  there  can 
be  no  doubt  of  their  redemption  ;  and  if  men 
of  capital  are  not  willing  to  place  themselves 
in  such  a  position,  there  must  be  something 
wrong  about  it.  Now,  sir,  if  you  and  I  pro- 
pose to  establish  a  bank  and  issue  bills  of 
credit,  and  have  th«m  go  out  as  a  circulating 
medium,  it  seems  to  me,  if  we  were  honest 
men,  and  did  intend  to  redeem  those  bills,  we 
should  be  perfectly  willing  to  place  ourselves 
in  a  position  that  there  would  be  no  doubt  of 
eflFecting  that  object.  Now,  sir,  if  those  men 
who  go  into  these  operations,  propose  to  re- 
deem their  bills,  and  propose  also  to  place  the 
bill-holders  in  a  perfectly  safe  condition,  in 


320 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES- Wednesday,  August  5. 


my  judgment  it  will  make  no  difference  to 
them  as  to  the  extent  to  which  they  may  be 
compelled  to  go,  in  order  to  secure  the  rights 
of  the  bill-holders.  We  have  all  had  some 
little  experience  in  regard  to  this  matter  of 
holding  stockholders  responsible  only  to  the 
amount  of  the  stock  held  by  them.  We  know 
that  under  that  system,  in  a  great  many  in- 
stances, bill-holders  have  suffered,  and  that 
imder  a  system  substantially  like  this  now 
proposed,  there  are  hundreds  of  thousands  of 
dollars  which  are  worth  only  from  fifty  to 
seventy-five  per  cent.  And  I  even  have  bills 
of  that  character  in  my  pocket  now — bills 
with  which  I  could  hardly  buy  my  dinner. 
If  we  intend  to  establish  a  sound  and  reliable 
system  of  banking,  and  place  the  bill-holder 
in  a  position  to  be  perfectly  safe  when  he  has 
a  bill  in  his  pocket,  we  will  tell  these  banking 
men  that  when  they  go  into  these  operations 
they  shall  secure  us  not  only  by  a  deposit 
of  these  stocks  in  the  hands  of  the  treasurer ; 
but  that  they  shall  secure  us  by  their  own  in- 
dividual responsibility. 

Now  a  case  has  been  put  by  the  gentleman 
from  Scott  county,  something  like  this :  A, 
B  and  0  go  into  a  partnership  in  banking,  and 
C  puts  in  a  great  share  of  the  capital.  Now 
would  C  wish  to  do  that,  if  by  so  doing  he 
would  place  himself  in  a  position,  where,  in 
the  pase  of  a  contingency  arising,  he  would 
have  to  foot  all  the  bills  of  the  corporation  ? 
Or,  in  other  words,  where  he  would  have  to 
take  the  money  out  of  his  own  pocket  and 
redeem  the  bills  put  afloat  by  that  corpora- 
tion ?  In  my  judgment,  if  he  did  not  wish  to 
place  himself  in  such  a  position,  he  ought  not 
to  go  into  the  operation.  He  goes  into  it 
knowingly  and  puts  in  more  capital  thart  A 
and  B,  and  if  he  is  foolish  enough  to  put  it  in, 
let  him  take  the  responsibility  ;  for  I  do  not 
believe  that  the  bill-holders  should  suffer  be- 
cause he  is  foolish,  enough  to  go  into  it  in  that 
kind  of  way  and  manner. 

Again  the  question  has  been  asked,  who 
will  put  money  into  banking  corporations  if 
they  are  to  bo  made  personally  responsible 
for  the  whole  amount  of  the  debts  of  the  cor- 
porations. In  my  judgment  any  man  would, 
provided  he  was  honest  and  intended  to  re- 
deem the  bills  ;  and  if  he  is  a  dishonest  man, 
as  a  matter  of  course,  we  ought  to  throw 
around  his  operations  such  kind  of  restric- 


tions as  will  protect  the  creditors  of  these 
banking  institutions.  Now  I  think  I  can  re- 
fer gentlemen  to  New  England  States  where 
this  same  individual  liability  system  is  in  full 
operation ;  and  you  will  find,  when  you  come 
to  inquire  of  our  brokers,  that  a  discount  of 
only  one  quarter  per  cent  is  placed  upon  the 
bills  of  those  individual  banks,  while  the  bills 
of  banks  that  have  gone  on  imder  this,  which 
I  call  wild-bank  system,  are  at  a  discount  of 
three,  four  and  five  per  cent.  In  New  Hamp- 
shire, I  know  a  law  has  been  in  operation  for 
a  long  time,  by  which  individual  stockholders 
were  liable  not  only  for  the  redemption  of  all 
bills,  but  for  the  payment  of  all  the  debts  of 
the  corporation  ;  and  I  know  that  men  in- 
vested money  in  such  kind  of  banks,  and  I 
know  too  that  they  made  money  in  so  doing, 
and  that  the  bill-holders  were  perfectly  safe. 
Hence  I  say  that  men  who  embark  in  this 
kind  of  business  will  do  so  with  the  idea  that 
they  will  have  to  redeem  their  bills,  and  at 
the  same  time  will  be  perfectly  \villing  to 
place  themselves  in  a  position  which  will  af- 
ford the  bill-holders  a  perfect  confidence  in 
the  solvency  of  the  bank. 

Mr.  HUDSON.  I  was  willing,  after  we 
had  provided  that  banking  corporations 
should  be  established  under  a  general  law,  to 
leave  the  matter  with  the  Legislature  ;  but  if 
we  propose  to  go  into  the  minutia  of  this  mat- 
ter, I  am  decidedly  opposed  to  hanng  this 
section  struck  out.  Gentlemen  seem  very 
much  alarmed  for  fear  that  we  shall  drive 
capitalists  from  our  Territory,  and  that  we 
shall  fail  to  secure  any  banking  system. 
Well  if  we  are  to  secure  a  banking  system  at 
the  expense  of  individual  bill  holders,  I  hope 
we  shall  have  none  at  all.  It  is  the  duty  of 
every  man  who  enters  an  association  or  cor- 
poration for  banking  purposes,  to  know  who 
his  associates  are,  and  to  know  whether  he 
is  likely  to  be  defrauded  by  them.  If  indi- 
vidual stockholders  are  liable  to  lose,  or  if 
there  is  any  danger  of  it,  there  certainly  is 
danger  that  the  bill  holders  will  lose,  and  we 
should  look  out  for  the  interests  of  tlie  people 
first.  What  do  the  people  generally  know  ot 
the  value  of  the  bills  which  circulate  through 
the  country  ?  There  is  not  one  man  in  a  hun- 
dred who  knows  any  thing  of  the  value  of  the 
bills  he  takes.  He  has  no  means  of  knowing, 
and  hence  every  safeguard  should  be  thrown 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Wednesday,  August  5. 


321 


around  the  banking  system,  that  possibly  can 
be,  to  protect  bill  holders,  so  that  when  a  man 
takes  a  bill  he  may  know  that  he  is  safe  in 
doing  so, 

Mr.  BATES.  I  am  as  much  in  favor  of 
liaving  a  safe  banking  system  as  any  individ- 
ual, but  we  have  decided  to  leave  this  matter 
to  the  Legislature.  They  are  to  enact  a  law, 
and  that  law  is  to  be  submitted  to  a  vote  of 
the  people  for  their  approval,  and  if  the  Le- 
gislature do  not  enact  a  safe  system,  the  peo- 
ple will  have  the  privilege  of  voting  it  down. 
What  more  can  gentlemen  ask  ?  One  gentle- 
man refers  to  a  system  in  New  Hampshire. 
I  ask  the  gentleman  if  in  the  Constitution  of 
New  Hampshire,  there  is  any  such  provision 
as  this  ?     There  certainly  is  not. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  I  did  not  state  that 
there  was  any  such  provision  in  the  Consti- 
tution of  that  State,  but  that  there  was  a 
general  law  of  that  character. 

Mr.  BATES.  And  in  the  Constitutions  of 
the  various  New  England  States,  to  which 
the  gentleman  has  referred,  there  is  no  pro- 
vision similar  to  this.  The  safety  of  their 
banking  institutions  is  secured  under  a  gene- 
ral law,  and  such  should  be  the  case  here. 
If  this  section  is  put  into  the  Constitution,  it 
may  act  as  too  great  a  restraint.  I  am  in  fa- 
vor of  a  general  law,  and  one  which  will  make 
our  system  safe, 

Mr.  HARDING.  I  now  rise  to  a  point  of 
order.  Is  not  this  whole  debate  out  of  order  ? 
We  have  had  debate  suflficient  upon  both 
sides,  and  it  is  all  out  of  order  after  the  yeas 
and  nays  are  demanded. 

The  PRESIDENT.  It  certainly  is  out  of 
order  but  the  Chair  has  permitted  it,  consid- 
ering it  a  very  important  subject. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  desire  to  say  a  few 
words  upon  this  subject,  as  I  have  felt  some 
interest  in  this  provision.  I  have  been  from 
the  first  opposed  to  it.  I  believe,  as  the  gen- 
tleman from  Scott  county  (Mb.  Galbbaith) 
said,  if  you  incorporate  this  provision  into 
the  Constitution,  it  will  operate  as  a  prohibition 
of  banks.  And  if  it  does  not  operate  as  a 
prohibition  it  will  throw  the  banking  system 
into  the  hands  of  irresponsible  men.  If  the 
man  of  capital  wants  to  engage  in  the  busi- 
ness of  banking  imder  this  provision,  his  own 
name  will  not  be  used,  but  the  names  of 
other  persons  who  are  not  responsible,  al- 
41 


though  he  may  be  at  the  bottom  of  it.  I 
have  seen  that  thing  carried  out  in  the  bank- 
ing business,  time  and  again,  and  I  want  to 
avoid  its  recurrence  here.  I  am  in  favor  of 
securing  the  bill  holder  in  the  best  possible 
manner,  I  am  in  favor  of  throwing  around  him 
all  proper  safeguards,  but  at  the  same  time, 
I  am  opposed  to  defeating  the  banking  system. 
Gentlemen  talk  as  though  they  looked  upon 
this  system  as  a  one  sided  system,  and  as 
though  the  only  object  was  to  make  money, 
upon  the  part  of  the  bankers.  I  believe  that 
the  banking  system  is  for  the  mutual  benefit 
of  the  men  who  carry  on  the  business,  and  of 
the  people  who  enjoy  the  facilities  they  fur- 
nish for  developing  the  resources  of  the  coun- 
try. It  is  a  benefit  to  the  State  as  such. 
But  I  desire  this  matter  to  be  left  to  the  Le- 
gislature. We  have  left  them  to  determine 
what  kind  of  stocks  shall  be  pledged  as  secu- 
rity for  the  bills  issued;  but  we  have  said 
distinctly  that  ample  collateral  security  shall 
be  deposited.  Another  section  provides  that 
in  case  of  the  insolvency .  of  any  bank,  the 
bill  holders  shall  be  entitled  to  preference  in 
payment.  Now  is  there  any  chance  for  the 
bill  holders  to  lose,  if  the  Legislature  do  their 
duty? 

Again,  if  that  provision  is  put  into  the 
Constitution,  and  it  has  the  effect,  which  I 
believe  it  wUl,  to  drive  capitalists  away,  and 
keep  them  out  of  the  business,  or  else  to 
engage  in  the  business  in  the  names  of  irre- 
sponsible persons,  it  will  certainly  be  delete- 
rious, if  it  has  the  latter  effect ;  and  if  the 
former  effect,  we  shall  have  the  State  flooded 
with  foreign  biUs.  This  Territory  is  flooded 
to-day  with  the  paper  currency  of  other 
States.  Can  you  point  me  to  a  single  West- 
em  State  which  has  such  a  provision  as  this, 
under  a  general  banking  law?  Is  there  a 
single  State  that  provides  for  the  deposit 
of  security  to  the  full  amount  of  the  paper 
issued,  and  at  the  same  time  makes  the 
stockholders  individually  responsible  for  all 
its  debts  ?  If  any  gentleman  can  point  me 
to  such  an  instance,  I  would  Hke  to  know  it. 
Wisconsin  has  no  such  provision  in  her  law, 
which  has  been  so  eulogised  here,  and  justly 
too. 

The  gentleman  from  Steele  County,  (Mr. 
Coggswell)  has  referred  to  New  Hampshire. 
New  Hampshire  has  no  general  banking  law. 


822 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Wednesdat,  August  5. 


Her  laws  do  not  require  the  men  who  engage 
in  banking  business  to  deposit  security  to  the 
full  amount  of  their  issue,  and  then  become 
individually  responsible. 

How  is  it  in  Massachusetts  ?  Their  stock- 
holders are  individually  responsible  to  twice 
the  amount  of  shares  they  own,  but  they  are 
allowed  to  issue  bills  to  twice  the  amount  of 
the  security  deposited.  It  seems  to  me,  to 
say  that  they  shall  be  individually  liable  to 
the  full  amount  of  their  fortune,  will  have  a 
prohibitory  effect,  and  that  no  banking  sys- 
tem can  prosper  under  such  a  provision. 

I  hope,  then,  the  section  will  be  stricken 
out,  and  the  matter  be  left  with  the  Legisla- 
ture. If  the  Legislature  thinks  that  there  is 
not  ample  security,  let  them  provide  that  the 
stockholders  shall  be  individually  responsible 
to  the  amount  of  their  respective  shares.  I 
am  confident  that  the  Legislature  will  pro- 
vide all  the  security  that  is  needed.  If  this 
section  is  retained  it  will  create  a  strong  pre- 
judice in  the  minds  of  the  very  men  who  have 
had  ideas  of  going  into  the  banking  business. 
I  believe  it  will  have  the  opposite  effect  from 
what  gentlemen  intend.  Instead  of  putting 
the  business  into  the  hands  of  reliable  cap- 
italists— though  they  may  be  at  the  bottom  of 
it — ^it  will  be  placed  into  the  hands  of  men  of 
straw. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  I  am  disposed  to  put 
banking  corporations  upon  the  same  footing  as 
limited  partnership.  The  second  section  pro- 
vides that  no  general  act  shall  be  passed  grant- 
ing banking  privileges,  without  ample  collat- 
eral security  being  deposited  for  the  redemp- 
tion of  the  issue.  I  consider  that  the  credit 
of  such  a  body  should  be  the  credit  of  a  cor- 
poration and  not  that  of  an  individual.  I  am 
aware  that  in  the  New  England  States  where 
they  have  no  general  banking  law,  and  where 
the  corporation  is  not  obliged  to  deposit  with 
the  State  Treasurer  any  security,  it  may  be 
very  important,  as  the  gentleman  suggested, 
to  have  the  individual  stockholders  liable  for 
the  redemption  of  the  bills.  But  hero  we 
provide  that  no  act  shall  be  passed  which  shall 
not  require  a  bank  to  deposit  ample  collateral 
security  for  the  redemption  of  its  issues.  Now 
suppose  that  section  four  is  allowed  to  re- 
main in,  and  that  each  individual  stockholder 
shall  be  liable  not  only  to  the  amount  of  his 
stock — for  I  am  willing  to  go  thus  far — but 


for  every  debt  and  liability  of  every  kind ; 
do  you  suppose  capitalists  would  go  into 
business  under  such  a  regulation  ?  I  think 
that  inasmuch  as  we  have  exacted  a  general 
security,  it  would  be  folly  to  hamstring  cor- 
porations of  this  kind  by  making  stockholders 
individually  liable.  If  this  were  the  only  pro- 
vision in  the  bill,  I  should  consider  that  it 
created  an  unsafe  system.  As  it  is,  we  have 
other  provisions  much  better,  securing  fully 
the  bill  holders.  Require  only  an  individual 
responsibility,  and  if  the  affairs  of  a  corpora- 
tion should  be  going  badly,  a  man  could  trans- 
fer his  stock  to  an  irresponsible  person  and 
thereby  escape  responsibility  under  the  pro- 
visions of  this  section,  which  gentlemen  say 
should  remain  in  the  Constitution.  Now  the 
credit  of  banking  corporations  is  not  based 
upon  the  individual  responsibility  of  the  stock- 
holders, but  upon  the  credit  of  the  corpora- 
tion as  such. 

Mr.  LOWE.  I  have  lived  in  a  State  where 
a  provision  similar  to  this  has  been,  for  along 
time  in  operation,  and  I  think  I  am  prepared  to 
have  an  opinion  upon  the  subject.  My  im- 
pression of  its  operation  is  unfavorable  to  it. 
I  have  known  a  great  many  cases  of  hard- 
ship to  poor  men  resulting  from  it ;  but  in 
what  respect  good  has  resulted  from  it,  after 
an  experience  of  ten  years,  I  cannot  say,  and 
do  not  know.  I  would  like  gentlemen  to 
point  me  to  an  instance  in  which  it  has  ope- 
rated advantageously.  It  seems  to  me  that 
it  operates  badly  for  the  corporation  and  the 
people.  It  was  tried  in  New  Hampshire  purely 
as  an  experiment,  and  as  such  it  operated 
mischievously.  If  it  is  to  become  a  part  of 
our  laws,  it  should  be  left  to  the  Legislature 
to  establish  it.  It  is  strictly  a  matter  of  legis- 
lation. But  I  do  not  even  see  why,  M'hen  it 
is  of  doubtful  eflBcacy,  we  should  apply  to 
the  Legislature  for  such  security.  We  can 
entrust  the  whole  matter  to  them.  If  we  are 
to  have  any  such  provison  for  security  in  the 
Constitution,  I  want  it  to  be  an  unquestion- 
able provision,  and  one  that  wUl  answer  the 
end  intended.  I  hope  the  good  sense  of  the 
Convention  will  vote  down  this  section. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.     I  do  not  wish  to  dis- 
cuss this  matter  any  longer.     I  hope  the  ques- 
tion will  be  put  and  if  the  section  is  voted  in, 
I  will  offer  an  amendment. 
•    Mr.  McCLURE.     I  wish  merely  to  sug- 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES—Wedxesdat,  August  5. 


823 


I 


gest  here,  that  if  some  of  our  friends  do  not 
cease  violating  one  of  our  rules  pretty  soon, 
I  shall  have  to  call  them  to  order.  When  we 
have  rules,  I  believe  they  should  be  observed. 
This  speaking  two  or  three  times  is  a  little 
more  than  should  be  allowed. 

For  myself  I  shall  vote  to  strike  out  this 
section,  for  the  reason  that  I  think  the  Legis- 
lature can  provide,  under  the  preceding  part 
of  this  report,  security  just  as  good  as  is  de- 
sired or  necessary. 

Mr.  KING.  I  tlank  there  is  evidence 
enough  before  the  Convention  to  show  them 
the  propriety  of  taking  this  security  for  banking 
operations.  Take  the  whole  history  of  bank- 
ing, and  there  never  has  been  a  bank  upon  a 
firm  foundation,  except  existing  banks,  of 
course,  and  we  cannot  tell  how  soon  they 
may  break.  Let  us  try  this  plan  and  see  if 
it  will  not  give  us  permanent  and  secure  banks. 
One  gentleman  has  said  that  capitalists  will 
not  connect  their  names  with  a  bank,  but 
will  assume  a  name.  I  reckon  our  Legisla- 
ture is  wise  enough  to  counteract  any  such 
operation,  and  forbid  it. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  The  gentleman  mis- 
apprehends me.  I  said  that  if  the  real 
capitalist  should  engage  in  the  business  of 
banking,  he  would  allow  other  and  irrespon- 
sible people  to  take  the  stock,  and  although  it 
was  really  his,  it  would  be  in  the  names  of 
other  persons,  and  thereby  he  would  escape 
personal  liability. 

Mr.  KING.  That  may  be  so,  and  if  it  is 
so,  it  will  be  necessary  to  find  that  out  as 
soon  as  possible.  It  seems  to  me  that  there 
would  be  a  very  fair  prospect  of  making 
money,  if  I  could  go  into  a  corporation  of  this 
kind,  and  issue  bills  to  an  amount  two  or 
three  times  as  much  as  I  am  worth,  and  not 
risk  what  possessions  I  have.  If  men  are 
not  willing  to  risk  their  property  and  stock 
which  they  may  put  into  a  bank,  in  the  hands 
of  other  individuals  because  they  may  be 
rascals,  it  seems  to  me  that  that  is  sufiBcient 
evidence  to  satisfy  us  that  this  section  is 
right. 

I  think  there  is  a  provision  in  some  Consti- 
tutions that  corporations  shall  not  have  privi- 
leges which  individuals  do  not  possess.  Now 
no  individual  has  a  right  to  give  his  note,  and 
not  be  responsible  for  that  note ;  and  no  cor- 
poration should  have  that  right.     Corporationg 


should  never  have  privileges  not  granted  to 
individuals.  If  there  never  has  been  a  bank 
incorporated  upon  this  principle,  T  should  like 
to  try  it  here. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  I  do  not  rise  to  speak 
again  at  length.  I  have  spoken  but  once.  I 
like  the  idea  of  keeping,  as  nearly  as  may  be, 
corporations  upon  the  same  footing  with  indi- 
viduals. A  corporation  is  but  one  individual 
in  law,  though  it  is  a  combmation  of  individ- 
uals to  accomplish  a  specific  end,  which 
individuals  cannot  do.  We  provide  that  the 
stockholders  shall  put  in  good,  ample  security, 
and  shall  we  require  anything  more  ?  Who 
ever  heard  of  an  individual  doing  a  legal 
credit  business,  depositing  collateral  security 
for  every  debt  he  creates.  The  law  prescribes 
no  such  thing.  One  instance  of  the  working 
of  this  principle  now  occurs  to  me.  It  is  the 
case  of  the  Miner's  Bank  of  Pennsylvania. 
It  went  into  operation  under  a  charter  in 
which  the  most  stringent  personal  liability 
clause  was  inserted.  Certain  individuals  well 
known  in  that  State,  went  to  work  to  defraud 
the  people  through  that  bank.  An  old  man 
and  his  sons  put  their  heads  together,  and 
got  control  of  the  concern,  issued  a  hundred 
thousand  dollars  worth  of  bills,  and  then 
"busted."  Well,  they  were  individually 
liable,  but  what  security  was  that  to  the  bill- 
holders?  Nobody  ever  got  anything.  The 
other  security  is  the  best.  Security  which  is 
tangible  is  what  I  want.  Individual  security 
is  good  enough  in  its  place,  but  not  here. 

Mr.  WILSON.  We  want  tangible  security, 
and  along  with  that  we  want  individual  lia- 
bility. I  cannot  say  that  I  am  in  favor  of 
this  section  to  the  extent  to  which  it  goes,  and 
if  it  is  retained  I  shall  offer  an  amendment  to 
it.  The  members  of  corporations  know  when 
there  is  no  responsibility  in  a  banking  concern, 
eacTi  member  is  behind  the  screen,  and  knows 
what  security  there  is  there  ;  and  if  he  is  not 
willing  to  assume  the  responsibility  of  becom- 
ing personally  liable,  it  is  sufficient  evidence, 
to  my  mind,  that  that  bank  is  unsafe ;  that 
every  poor  man  with  one  of  its  bills  in  his 
pocket,  is  unsafe. 

But  gentleman  say  we  require  them  to  give 
ample  collateral  secmity.  How  often  have 
we  found  this  ample  security  turn  out  not  to 
be  ample  security  ?  We  have  found  it  so  in 
the  case  of  almost  every  bank  that  has  been 


824 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— "Wednesday,  August  5. 


broken.  Ample  security  often  means  any- 
thing. Every  man  knows  that.  Ample 
security !  It  is  at  the  discretion  of  certain 
men  to  say  what  is.  Sometimes  we  err  wil- 
fully, and  sometimes  ignorantly.  The  Legis- 
lature ■will  be  quite  liable  to  err.  If  men  are 
not  willing  to  say  that  they  will  risk  their 
property  under  this  section,  I  say  they  should 
not  have  the  benefits  resulting  from  the 
business.  If  banks  break,  who  should  lose 
but  those  who  get  up  the  security.  Except 
themselves,  who  knew  what  the  security  was  ? 
They  know  what  the  security  is,  and  they 
should  not  loan  their  paper  unless  it  is  secured. 
If  it  is  secured,  they  get  the  benefit,  and  if  it 
is  not,  they  should  bear  the  loss. 

As  I  said  before,  I  am  in  favor  of  a  medium 
between  the  two  extremes,  but  I  shaU  vote 
first  in  favor  of  retaining  the  section,  and  if 
retained,  I  will  offer  an  amendment  to  it.  But 
I  rather  have  the  section  as  it  is,  than  nothing, 
and  I  shall  continue  to  vote  for  it. 

Mr.  BALCOMBE.  I  voted  before,  against 
striking  out  this  section  for  the  very  purpose 
of  moving  a  re-consideration,  as  did  the  gentle- 
man from  St.  Anthony,  (Mr.  Secombe).  I 
am  in  favor  of  striking  out  this  section,  as  I 
was  before  in  favor  of  striking  out  all  the  sec- 
tions which  provide  for  a  system  of  banking. 
I  am  more  desirous  of  striking  out  this 
section,  than  I  am  of  any  other,  for  the  reason 
that  it  contains  a  principle  over  which  there 
will  be  a  great  deal  of  controversy.  I  sup- 
posed, when  the  first  section  of  this  report 
was  amended  so  as  to  require  the  Legislature 
to  frame  a  banking  law,  and  submit  it  to  the 
people,  that  it  was  for  the  purpose  of  throw- 
ing out  of  the  Constitution  the  whole  banking 
system,  and  to  get  rid  of  the  discussion  upon 
the  consequences  of  establishing  a  banking 
system.  I  cannot  see  the  consistency  of  pro- 
viding that  the  Legislature  should  pass  a  law 
and  submit  it  to  the  people,  and  then  going 
on  and  framing  a  whole  system  and  inserting 
it  into  the  Constitution.  I  cannot  see  why 
gentlemen  should  persist  upon  that  with  so 
much  tenacity.  If  we  adopt  the  first  section, 
we  provide  for  a  full  and  complete  system 
substantially,  for  the  Legislature,  under  that, 
must  frame  a  general  banking  law  and  submit 
it  to  the  people.  If  you  go  on  and  adopt  the 
other  sections,  why  make  it  incumbent  upon 
the  Legislature  to  submit  their  law,  when 


there  is  nothing  to  submit,  which  is  not  con- 
tained in  the  Constitution  ?  Why  ask  them 
to  submit  something  which  the  people  have 
already  sanctioned  in  the  Constitution  ?  The 
time  and  expense  which  the  Legislature 
would  spend  in  passing  a  general  law  and 
submitting  it  to  the  people  would  be  all  lost. 

Again,  by  inserting  such  provisions  in  the 
Constitution,  we  put  an  obstacle  in  the  way 
of  the  adoption  of  the  Constitution  itself,  for 
I  am  satisfied  that  a  large  number  of  our  vo- 
ters will  oppose  the  ado{)tion  of  a  Constitution 
containing  such  a  system  of  banking.  There 
is  a  large  commercial,  mercantile  and  monied 
interest  in  the  Territory,  that  wQl  oppose  its 
adoption,  and  thereby  endanger  the  adoption 
of  the  Constitution,  and  perhaps  entirely  de- 
feat it,  and  prevent  our  coming  into  the  Union 
for  some  time. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  would  inquire  if  the 
yeas  and  nays  are  ordered  to  be  taken  again 
upon  this  question  ? 

The  PRESIDENT.  They  have  been  or- 
dered. 

Mr.  FOLSOM.  I  recorded  my  vote  in  the 
aflfirmative.  I  am  still  opposed  to  that  section. 
I  hope  we  shall  have  no  more  discussion  upon 
it,  but  shall  proceed  to  vote  immediately. 

The  question  was  then  taken  on  the  recom- 
mendation to  strike  out  section  four,  and  it 
was  decided  in  the  afiSrmative,  yeas  thirty- 
two,  and  nays  sixteen,  as  follows  : 

Yeas — Messrs.  Ayer,  Balcombe,  Baldwin,  Bates, 
Butler,  Cleghorn,  Colburn,  Dickerson,  Eschlie, 
Foster,  Folsom,  Galbraith,  Hayden,  HoUey, 
Kemp,  Lowe,  McClure,  Morgan,  Mills,  Mur- 
phy, North,  Phelps,  Perkins,  Putnam,  Peckham, 
Russell,  Stannard,  Secombe,  Smith,  Thompson, 
Watson,   and  Sheldon.— 82. 

JViz^rs-Messrs.  Anderson,  Bartholomew,  Billings, 
Coggswell,  Cederstam,  Davis,  Duley,  Gerrish, 
Harding,  Hudson,  Hanson,  King,  Mantor,  McCann, 
McKune  and  Wilson. — 16. 

So  the  section  was  stricken  out. 

Mr.  WILSON.  I  offer  the  following  to  sup- 
ply the  place  of  the  section  which  has  just 
been  stricken  out : 

"Sec.  4.  Dues  from  corporations  or  associa- 
tions for  banking  purposes  issuing  any  kind  of 
paper  credits  to  circulate  as  money  shall  be  secured 
by  such  individual  liability  of  the  stockholders 
and  other  means  as  may  be  prescribed  by  law,  but 
in  all  cases,  each  stockholder  shall  be  liable  over 
and  above  the  stock  by  him  or  her  owned,  and  any 
amount  unpaid  thereon,  to  a  further  sum  at  least 
equal  in  amount  to  such  stock." 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Wednesday,  Arcxm  5. 


325 


Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  would  inquire  of  the 
Chair  if  that  amendment  is  in  order  while 
there  are  other  amendments  recommended 
by  the  committee  pending  ? 

The  PRESIDENT.  The  Chair  thinks  it  is 
not  strictly  in  order  until  after  those  amend- 
ments are  disposed  of 

Mr.  WILSON.  I  have  no  objection  to  its 
laying  over. 

And  then,  on  motion  of  Mr.  HUDSON,  (at 
twelve  o'clock  and  ten  minutes)  the  Conven- 
tion took  a  recess  imtil  half  past  two  o'clock. 
AFTERNOON  SESSION. 

The  Convention  was  called  to  order  at  half 
past  two  o'clock. 

BAXKIXG    CORPORATIOXS,    AC. 

The  Convention  resumed  the  consideration 
of  the  amendments  to  the  report  of  the  com- 
mittee on  Banking  and  Corporations  other 
than  municipal,  the  question  being  upon  the 
next  amendment  recommended  by  the  com- 
mittee, to  substitute  the  word  "  or,"  for  the 
word  "  and,"  in  section  seven,  which  is  as 
follows : 

"Sec.  7.  Dues  from  corporations  other  than 
banking  shall  be  secured  bj  such  individual  lia- 
bility of  the  corporators,  and  other  means  as  may 
be  prescribed  by  law.'-' 

The  amendment  was  concurred  in. 

Mr.  FOLSOM.  I  move  to  strike  out  sec- 
tions six  and  seven.  Section  six  provides 
that  corp  rations  for  purposes  other  than 
banking  may  be  formed  by  general  laws,  and 
also  that  all  general  laws  &c.,  may  be  altered 
from  time  to  time  or  repealed.  I  do  not  see  the 
necessity  of  first  giving  the  power  to  pass  laws, 
and  then  to  repeal  them  from  time  to  time. 
It  seems  to  me  useless  to  burden  the  Consti- 
tution with  any  such  article.  The  Legisla- 
ture have  the  power,  without  its  being  con- 
ferred upon  them  here. 

Mr.  SECOMBE  moved  a  call  of  the  Con- 
vention. 

A  call  was  ordered  and  the  roll  being  called 
the  following  members  failed  to  answer  to 
their  names : 

Messrs.  Aldrich,  Anderson,  Ayer,  BoUes,  Cleg- 
horn,  Coe,  Coombs,  Eschlie,  Foster,  Hall,  Han- 
eon,  King,  Lowe,  McCann,  Murphy,  Xorth,  Per- 
kins, Robbins,  Walker,  Winell,  Watson,  and 
Sheldon. 

Mr.  COLBURN  from  the  committee  on 
Leave  of  Absence,  stated  that  Mr.  Aij)bich 


was  out  of  town,  and  had  asked  leave  of  ab- 
sence for  the  day. 

Mr.  HARDING  moved  that  all  further 
proceedings  under  the  call  be' dispensed  with. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  would  inquire  how 
many  members  are  absent  ? 

The  PRESIDENT.  Twenty-OTie  members 
are  absent  unexcused. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  The  matter  we  have 
under  consideration  is  one  of  very  great  im- 
portance, and  about  which  we  have  discov- 
ered that  there  is  a  difference  of  opinion.  I 
hope  further  proceedings  in  the  call  will  not 
be  dispensed  with. 

The  motion  was  not  agreed  to,  and  the 
Sergeant-at-Arms  was  directed  to  report  ab- 
sent members  in  their  seats. 

Mr.  STANNARD  moved  (at  two  o'clock 
fifty  minutes)  that  the  Convention  adjourn. 

The  motion  was  not  agreed  to. 

Mr.  WILSON  moved  (at  three  o'clock)  to 
reconsider  the  vote  by  which  the  Convention 
refused  to  suspend  further  proceedings  under 
the  call.     I  wish  to  say  that 

Mr.  STANNARD.     Debate  is  not  in  order. 

Mr.  WILSON.  I  would  inquire  if  my 
motion  is  debatable? 

The  PRESIDENT.     It  is  not. 

Mr.  WILSON.  Can  I  be  permitted  to  say 
that  if  we  do  not  reconsider  the  vote  we  shalll 
be  compelled  to  adjourn  ? 

The  PRESIDENT.  It  is  not  in  order  to 
make  any  such  remark. 

Mr.  WILSON.  Then  I  will  not  say  so. 
(Laughter.) 

The  motion  to  reconsider  prevailed. 

The  question  then  recurred  on  the  motion 
to  dispense  with  all  further  proceedings  under 
the  call,  and  being  put  it  was  lost. 

Mr.  HUDSON  moved  (at  three  o'clock  and 
five  minutes)  that  the  Convention  adjourn. 

The  motion  was  not  agreed  to. 

Mr.  STANNARD  moved  to  reconsider  the 
vote  by  which  the  Convention  refused  to  ad- 
journ.    (Laughter.) 

The  PRESIDENT.  The  motion  is  out  of 
order. 

Mr.  HAYDEN.  I  move  that  we  adjourn 
until  four  o'clock. 

The  PRESIDISNT.  A  motion  to  adjourn 
to  a  specific  time  is  out  of  order. 

Mr.  HAYDEN.  WiU  a  motion  to  take  a 
recess  be  in  order  ? 


826 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Wednesday,  August  5. 


The  PRESIDENT.    It  will  not. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  WUl  a  motion  to 
adjourn  be  in  order.     (Laughter.) 

The  PRESIDENT.     It  will  not. 

Mr.  HAYDEN.  Shall  I  have  leave  to  make 
a  remark  ?     [Cries  of  "  leave,"  leave."] 

Mr.  STANNARD.  I  cannot  listen  to  any 
remarks. 

The  PRESIDENT.  If  any  gentleman  ob- 
jects it  is  not  in  order. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  I  will  withdraw  the 
objection. 

Mr.  DAVIS.  I  would  like  to  hear  the 
gentleman  under  other  circumstances,  but  I 
must  object  now. 

Mr.  HAYDEN.  I  think  we  are  not  doing 
our  duty  as  we  should,  while  spending  time 
in  this  way.  There  is  a  goodly  number  of 
members  present,  and  it  is  wrong  to  spend 
time  in  this  manner  when  we  have  so  much 
business  on  our  hands.  I  hope  we  shall  pro- 
ceed to  business  at  once. 

Mr.  COLBURN  moved  to  reconsider  the 
vote  whereby  the  Convention  refused  to  sus- 
pend further  proceedings  under  the  call. 

The  motion  to  reconsider  prevailed,  and 
then  all  further  proceedings  under  the  call 
were  dispensed  with. 

The  question  recurred  on  the  motion  to 
strike  out  sections  six  and  seven  of  the  re- 
port. 

Mr.  HARDING.  I  move  the  previous 
question. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  move  that  the  report 
and  the  previous  question  be  laid  on  the  table. 

The  motion  was  not  agreed  to. 

The  previous  question  was  then  seconded, 
and  the  main  question  ordered  to  be  put. 

The  main  question  being  the  motion  to 
strike  out  sections  six  and  seven — 

Mr.  SECOMBE  demanded  the  yeas  and 
nays. 

The  yeas  and  nays  were  ordered,  and  the 
question  being  taken,  it  was  decided  in  the 
negative — yeas  6,  nays  33 — as  follows  : 

Jea«.— Messrs.  Ayer,  Balcombe,  Folsom,  Mills, 
Putnam,  and  Stannard. — 6. 

J\'ay«.— Messrs.  Baldwin,  Bates,  Bartholomew, 
Billings^  Butler,  Colburn,  Coggswell,  Cederstam, 
Davis,  Uulcy,  Dickerson,  Esohlie,  Galbraith,  Qer- 
rith,  Hayden,  Harding,  Hanson,  HoUey,  King, 
Kemp,  Lyle,  Mantor,  MctJlure.  Messer,  Phelps, 
Perkins,  Peckham,  Russell,  Sccombe,  Smith, 
Vaughn,  Wilson,  and  Sheldon. — 88. 


Mr.  DICKERSON.  I  move  to  strike  out 
section  seven. 

The  motion  was  not  agreed  to. 

Mr.  WILSON.  I  now  offer  the  following, 
to  take  the  place  of  section  four,  which  has 
been  stricken  out : 

'"Sec.  4.  Dues  from  corporations  or  associa- 
tions for  banking  purposes,  issuing  any  kind  of 
paper  credits  to  circulate  as  money,  shall  be  se- 
cured by  such  individual  liability  of  stockholders 
and  other  means,  as  shall  be  prescribed  by  law ; 
but  in  all  cases,  each  stockholder  shall  be  liable, 
over  and  above  the  stock  by  hira  or  her  owned  and 
any  amount  unpaid  thereon,  to  a  farther  sum  at 
least  equal  in  amount  to  such  stock." 

My  amendment  will  obviate  to  a  great  ex- 
tent the  difficulty  spoken  of  this  morning,  in 
regard  to  one  person  being  held  for  the  whole 
amount  of  the  debts  of  the  corporation.  My 
amendment  provides  that  each  stockholder 
shall  be  individually  liable  for  the  debts  to  at 
least  double  the  amount  of  stock  held  by  such 
person.  What  is  the  necessity  for  such  a 
provision  ?  Here  is  a  bank  established,  and 
there  is  a  law  requiring  that  bank  to  deposit 
stocks  of  a  certain  kind  to  secure  the  redemp- 
tion of  the  bills.  Stocks  may  be  deposited 
to  the  amount,  say,  of  one  dollar  and  twenty- 
five  for  every  dollar  circulated.  Now  we 
know  that  those  stocks  frequently  depreciate, 
and  they  may  so  depreciate  as  to  come  down 
to  the  actual  amount  in  circulation.  Now 
take  a  bank  that  has  nearly  as  large  a  circu- 
lation as  it  has  securities  deposited,  that  bank 
does  not  secure  the  people  fully.  I  want  se- 
curity enough  to  cover  the  deposits  as  well 
as  the  circulation,  and  if  the  members  of  a 
corporation  are  not  wilhng  to  become  person- 
ally responsible  for  a  sum  at  least  double  the 
amount  of  their  stock,  then  their  institution 
is  an  unsafe  one,  and  the  people  should  know 
it,  that  they  may  guard  against  it.  If  per- 
sons who  know  the  whole  workings  and  re- 
sponsibility of  a  bank,  will  not  become  re- 
sponsible for  at  least  an  amount  double  their 
stock,  so  as  to  cover  the  amount  of  deposits 
and  bills,  no  person  should  touch  the  notes  of 
that  bank.  It  would  be  unsafe,  and  we 
should  have  nothing  to  do  with  it. 

Mr.  MORGAN.  I  hope  the  amendment 
will  not  be  adopted.  It  seems  to  me  to  be  a 
piece  of  complicated  legislation  which  we  can- 
not fully  understand  at  this  time.  ^Vo  have 
decided,  by  an  amendment  previously  intro- 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Wedkesdat,  August  5. 


327 


daced,  to  leave  the  matter  with  the  Legisla- 
ture, subject  to  revision  by  the  people,  who 
are  to  vote  upon  any  law  the  Legislature  may 
pass.  This  amendment  is  liable  to  all  the  ob- 
jections which  have  been  urged  here  so  often 
in  regard  to  legislation.  For  that  reason,  I 
am  decidedly  opposed  to  it. 

Mr.  "WILSON.  Permit  me  to  say  thatmy 
amendment  is  taken,  word  for  word,  from  the 
Ohio  Constitution.  "We  are  not  anticipating 
and  going  ahead  of  the  times,  but  coming  af- 
ter. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  The  Ohio  .provision  was 
founded  upon  a  diflFerent  basis  firom  our  re- 
port. 

Mr.  BATES.  "We  have  introduced  here  a 
provision  which  is  contained  in  no  other  Con- 
stitution in  the  United  States.  "We  have  re- 
quired ample  collateral  security,  which  Ohio 
has  not  required.  In  addition  to  that  we  re- 
quire that  a  general  banking  law  shall  be  sub- 
mitted to  a  vote  of  the  people.  I  do  not 
know  what  further  could  be  asked.  It  seems 
to  me  that  that  is  all  that  ought  to  be  re- 
quired. 

Mr.  "WILSON  demanded  the  yeas  and  nays. 

The  yeas  and  nays  were  ordered,  and  the 
question  being  taken  it  was  decided  in  the 
negative — yeas  17,  nays  26,  as  follows: 

Teas. — Messrs.  Anderson,  Bartholomew,  Bil- 
lings, Cogswell,  Davis,  Duley,  Eschlie,  Gerrish, 
Harding,  Hudson,  Hanson,  Holley,  King,  Kemp, 
McCann,  Messer,  and  Wilson. — 17. 

Kayg. — Messrs.  Aver,  Balcombe,  Baldwin,  Bates, 
Butler,  Colburn,  Cederstam,  Dickerson,  Foster, 
Fo'.som,  Galbraith,  Hajden,  Lyle,  McClure,  Mor- 
gan, Mills,  Phelps,  Perkins,  Putnam,  Peckham, 
Russell,  Stannard,  Secombe,  Smith,  Vaughn,  and 
Sheldon.— 26. 

So  the  amendment  was  rejected. 

Mr.  LYLE.  I  offer  the  following  as  a  sub- 
stitute for  the  first  five  sections  of  the  bill. 
I  am  opposed  to  any  legislation  whatever  up- 
on the  subject  in  the  Constitution  : 

"Sec.  1.  The  Legislature  shall  have  power  to 
pass  a  general  banking  law,  with  such  restrictions 
and  under  such  regulations  as  they  shall  deem  ex- 
pedient and  proper  for  the  security  of  the  bill 
holders;  Provided,  that  no  such  law  shall  have 
any  force  or  effect  until  it  shall  have  been  submit- 
ted to  the  electors  of  the  State  at  some  general 
election,  and  been  approved  by  a  majority  of  the 
votes  cast  upon  that  subject  at  such  election." 

Mr.  SECOMBE  demanded  the  yeas  and 
nays. 


The  yeas  and  nays  were  ordered,  and  the 
question  being  taken  it  was  decided  in  the 
negative — yeas  17,  nays  27,  as  follows: 

Teas — Messrs.  Balcombe,  Foster,  Foljom,  Gal- 
braith, Hudson,  Hanson,  Holley,  King,  Kemp, 
Lyle,  McCann,  Mills,  Putnam,  Russell,  Stannard, 
Smith,  and  Vaughn. — 17. 

Nays — Messrs.  Anderson,  Aver,  Baldwin,  Bates, 
Bartholomew,  Billings,  Butler,  Colburn,  Coggs- 
well,  Cederstam,  Davis,  Duley,  Dickerson,  Eschlie, 
Gerrish,  Hayden,  Harding,  Mantor,  McClure,  Mes- 
ser, Morgan,  Phelps,  Perkins,  Peckham,  Secombe, 
Wilson,  and  Sheldon. — 27. 

So  the  substitute  was  rejected. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  I  move  to  amend  sec- 
tion six  by  striking  out  the  words  "formed 
by  general  laws"  and  insert  in  lieu  thereof 
the  words  "  created  by  the  Legislature." 

Mr.  COLBURN.  If  that  amendment  is 
adopted,  corporations  for  other  purposes  than 
banking,  cannot  be  created  by  a  general  law 
or  by  a  special  act,  except  in  certain  cases. 
It  would  place  the  Legislature  in  a  very  awk- 
ward position. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  I  claim  that  my  amend- 
ment will  have  just  the  contrary  effect.  The 
Legislature  can  pass  any  general  law  at  any 
time  and  it  is  always  the  poUcy  of  the  Legis- 
lature to  do  so,  and  the  only  case  in  which 
special  acts  are  called  for  is  where  the  object 
cannot  be  attained  under  general  laws. 

Mr.  FOSTER.  Would  not  the  object  the 
gentleman  seeks,  be  obtained  quite  as  well,  if 
the  section  were  amended  to  read  in  this  man- 
ner: "corporations  for  purposes  other  than 
"  banking  shall  not  be  created  except  by  spec- 
"  hal  act,  except  for  municipal  purposes,  &c." 
That  would  improve  the  phraseology. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  I  am  opposed  to  the 
section  as  it  now  stands,  for  reasons  urged  be- 
fore by  some  gentleman  this  morning.  There 
are  some  portions  of  our  Territory  already 
settled,  the  water  power  of  which  is  already 
sufficiently  secured  by  acts  of  incorporation ; 
and  many  of  those  acts  extend  quite  a  length 
of  time.  But  there  are  other  parts  of  the 
Territory,  not  yet  settled,  that  will  need  simi- 
lar acts  of  incorporation.  But  here  we  are 
providing  for  the  creation  of  corporations  only 
by  general  laws.  Now  where  it  would  not 
be  practicable  to  pass  general  laws,  it  would 
stop  all  legislation  of  the  kind.  I  ask  every 
member  of  this  Convention,  if  a  general  law 
can  be  framed  which  will  apply  to  all  these 


328 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Wednesday,  Axtqust  5. 


cases  ?  We  all  know  it  cannot  be  done. — 
Then  special  acts  should  be  passed.  I  do 
not  propose  to  shut  the  gate  now  against  other 
portions  of  our  Territory,  not  yet  settled,  and 
debar  them  of  the  privileges  we  enjoy.  The 
Legislature  heretofore  has  been  very  liberal, 
and  I  say  that  is  one  reason  why  Minnesota 
has  advanced  so  rapidly  as  she  has.  The  in- 
corporation of  towns  and  railroads  tend  to 
awaken  interest  in  Minnesota,  and  it  is  a  mis- 
taken idea  that  our  Legislature  should  be 
trammelled  in  this  respect. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  think  the  gentleman 
does  not  understand  the  language  of  the  sec- 
tion, or  else  he  does  not  correctly  explain 
what  he  understands.  If  I  understand  what 
the  gentleman  from  Chisago  desires,  it  seems 
to  me  that  this  section  meets  his  views  exact- 
ly. In  the  first  place  I  understand  that  the 
gentleman  is  in  favor  of  corporations  being 
created  and  established  under  general  laws, 
a  general  rule.  Now  tliis  section  provides 
that  "  corporations  for  purposes  other  than 
"  banking  may  be  formed  by  general  laws ;  but 
"  shall  not  be  created  by  special  act,  except  for 
"municipal  purposes;"  and  then  it  goes  on  to 
provide  that  in  cases  where,  in  the  judgment 
of  the  Legislature,  the  object  of  the  corpora- 
tion cannot  be  attained  under  general  laws, 
they  may  create  corporations  by  special  act. 
That  meets  the  gentleman's  views  exactly  It 
makes  the  formation  of  corporations  under 
general  laws  the  rule.  The  exceptions  are 
when  the  objects  cannot  be  attained  under 
general  laws.  Such  also  was  the  intention  of 
the  committee,  and  I  believe  the  language  is 

very  clear. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  Will  the  genUeman  give 
one  or  two  instances  of  corporations  which 
will  be  established  by  general  laws? 

Mr.  COLBURN.  There  are  many  kinds 
of  manufacturing  companies  in  the  several 
States,  which  do  exist  under  general  laws. — 
Railroad  companies  may  sometimes  be  formed 
under  general  laws.  But  where  the  object 
cannot  be  attained  under  a  general  law,  the 
Legi.slature  has  the  power  to  pass  a  special 
act.     This  provision  will  save  much  legislation. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  hope  the  amendment 
will  not  prevail.  The  provision  as  it  now 
stands,  lays  down  to  the  Legislature  a  general 
rule  of  action,  and  that  is,  that  corporations, 
not  only  for  banking,  but  for  all  other  pur- 
poses, shall  be  formed  under  general  laws — 


that  there  shall  be  laws  passed  comprehend 
ing  certain  subjects,  and  then  every  associa- 
tion of  persons  who  wish  to  go  into  that  kind 
of  business  imder  that  general  act  of  incorpo 
ration,  can,  by  complying  with  the  terms  of 
the  act,  become  incorporated.  And  if  there 
were  not  certain  cases  to  which  it  would  seem 
that  general  laws  could  not  apply,  I  should 
be  decidedly  in  favor  of  prohibiting  the  Leg- 
islature from  passing  any  special  acts.  But 
there  are  a  class  of  cases,  in  the  opinion  of 
the  committee,  which  could  not  be  reached 
by  a  general  law,  or  if  it  could  be,  it  would 
require  great  circumlocution.  I  might  refer 
to  the  case  of  boom  companies, — a  very  im- 
portant class  of  incorporations  in  tliis  Terri- 
tory. It  might  be  that  a  general  law  might 
be  passed  which  would  cover  that  subject. — 
There  might  also  be  such  cases  in  regard  to 
the  improvement  of  rivers,  either  by  dams  or 
otherwise,  which  no  general  law  would  cover. 
And  it  was  the  intention  of  the  committee 
while  we  prescribed  a  general  rule  for  the 
Legislature,  yet  not  to  prohibit  them  from 
passing  an  act  incorporating  companies  spec- 
ially and  with  special  privileges,  if  in  their 
judgment  it  could  not  come  within  a  general 
law.  It  was  objected  by  some  of  the  com- 
mittee that  it  left  it  to  the  judgment  of  the 
Legislature  to  say  whether  or  not  the  required 
object  could  be  attained  under  a  general  law, 
and  that  if  they  desired  to  pass  an  act  giving 
special  privileges  to  any  individual,  they  could 
make  an  excuse,  and  do  it.  But  the  general 
provisions  of  the  Constitution  would  be  to  them 
a  rule,  and  they  would  fall  back  upon  that 
and  refuse  special  privileges  to  individuals, 
when  they  would  not  do  so  if  they  had  the 
whole  thing  under  their  control.  I  believe 
that  the  provision  as  it  now  stands,  is  the  best 
we  can  have  upon  the  subject. 

Mr.  FOSTER.  I  wish  simply  to  remark 
that  this  whole  section  appears  to  me  to  mean 
everything  and  nothing.  It  seems  surplusage 
entirely.  It  in  the  first  place  attempts  to 
prohibit  the  Legislature  from  doing  something, 
and  then  in  another  line  it  permits  them  to 
do  it.     Mark  the  language. 

"  Corporations  for  purposes  other  than  banking 
may  be  formed  by  general  laws,  but  shall  not  be 
created  by  special  act,  except  for  municipal  purpo- 
ses, and  in  cases  where,  in  the  judgment  of  the 
Legislature,  the  object  of  the  corporation  cannot 
be  attained  under  general  laws." 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Wednesday,  August  5. 


329 


That  is  a  charter  as  lai^  as  the  wind. 
The  Legislature  may  at  any  time  decide 
that  a  particular  object  cannot  be  attained 
under  general  laws,  and  pass  a  special  act  to 
meet  the  case.  "Where  is  there  any  appeal 
from  that  matter  of  judgment?'  Suppose 
you  take  it  to  the  Supreme  Court,  what  could 
they  say,  but  that  it  was  a  matter  left  to  the 
judgment  of  the  Legislature,  and  that  they 
could  not  reverse  that  judgment?  If  you 
intend  to  prohibit  the  Legislature  from  pass- 
ing special  acts  of  incorporations,  why  pro- 
hibit them,  or  else  say  nothing  about  it.  Do 
not  attempt  to  do  it,  and  then  not  do  it. 

The  question  was  taken,  and  the  amend, 
ment  was  not  agreed  to, 

Mr.  WILSON.  I  propose  to  amend  the 
report  further  by  adding  the  following  sections  : 

"  Sec.  — .  No  right  of  way  shall  be  appropria- 
ted to  the  use  of  any  corporation,  until  full  com- 
pensation therefor  be  firsfmade  in  money,  or  first 
secured  by  a  deposit  of  money  to  the  owner,  irre- 
spective of  any  benefit  to  accrue  to  the  owner 
from  any  improvement  proposed  by  such  corpora- 
tions ;  which  compensation  shall  be  ascertained  by 
a  jury  of  twelve  men,  in  a  court  of  record,  as  may 
be  prescribed  by  law," 

Mr.  CO  LB  URN.  I  move  the  previous 
question  upon  that  amendment.  The  subject 
has  been  thoroughly  discussed  heretofore. 

Mr.  NORTH.  I  rise  to  a  question  of  order. 
That  amendment  having  been  once  introduced 
before,  and  full}^  discussed,  can  it  be  intro- 
duced again  ? 

The  PRESIDENT.  The  Chair  thinks  it  is 
in  order,  as  an  amendment  to  this  report. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  Will  a  substitute  for 
the  additional  section  be  in  order  ? 

,  The  PRESIDENT.     Not  after  a  demand 
for  the  previous  question. 

The  previous  question  was  seconded,  and 
the  main  question  ordered  to  be  put. 

Mr.  WILSON  demanded  the  yeas  and 
nays  upon  the  amendment. 

The  yeas  and  nays  were  refused. 

Mr.  STANNARD  moved  that  there  be  a 
call  of  the  Convention. 

A  call  was  refused. 

The  amendment  was  then  rejected. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  now  move  that  the 
report  be  ordered  to  be  engrossed  for  a  third 
reading.  — 

Mr.   COGGSWELL.     I  move  that  that 
motion  be  laid  upon  the  table. 
42 


Mr.  KING.     What  will  be  the  effect    of 
laying  that  motion  on  the  table  ? 

The  PRESIDENT.  The  report  will  still 
be  before  the  Convention. 

The  motion  to  lay  upon  the  table  was 
lost. 

The  question  then  recurred  upon  the  motion 
of  Mr.  Secosibe. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  I  believe  a  motion 
of  that  kind  is  debatable.  I  wish  simply 
to  say  that  I  am  opposed  to  that  motion 
at  present,  for  the  reason  that  I  know 
that  there  are  gentlemen  here  who  have 
amendments  they  desire  to  propose ;  and 
it  looks  exceedingly  ungentlemanly,  to  say 
the  least  of  it,  for  gentlemen  to  make  propo- 
sitions, and  speak  time  after  time  in  violation 
of  the  rules  of  this  body,  and  then  move  the 
provious  question  and  attempt  to  deprive 
other  members  of  equal  rights.  I  hope  the 
motion  will  not  prevail.  Every  member 
should  have  the  right  to  move  any  amend- 
ment he  sees  fit. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  have  not  moved  the 
previous  question  for  the  purpose  of  cutting 
off  anybody  from  offering  any  amendment 
which  I  thought  had  any  bearing  upon  this 
subject.  I  moved  the  previous  question  for 
the  first  time  since  I  have  been  in  the  Con- 
vention, and  I  did  it  because  an  amendment 
was  offered  which  was  out  of  place,  and  every 
principle  of  which  had  been  decided  by  this 
Convention  after  full  discussion ;  and  I  say 
that  to  try  to  lug  in  any  such  proposition, 
when  it  is  entirely  out  of  place,  is  improper, 
to  say  the  least  of  it.  I  should  move  the 
previous  question  again  under  similar  circum- 
stances, and  if  I  ever  bring  in  such  an  amend- 
ment, I  will  quietly  submit  to  the  prenous 
question.  The  gentleman  who  moved  the 
amendment,  himself  voted  for  the  previous 
question.  So  I  think  no  harm  can  be  done 
to  anybody. 
Mr.  COGGSWELL.  Mr.  Pbesident— 
Mr.  BILLINGS.  I  caU  the  gentleman  to 
order.  He  has  spoken  once.  [Cries  of 
"leav«!"  "leave!" 

The  PRESIDENT.  If  no  objection  is  made 
the  gentleman  from  Steele  wiU  proceed. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  I  deny  the  right  of 
the  gentleman  from  Fillmore,  or  any  other 
man,  to  dictate  to  me  in  regard  to  the  propri- 
ety of  introducing  an  amendment  at  any  time 


330 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Wednesday,  August  5. 


I  think  proper.  I  deny  the  right  of  him  or 
any  other  man,  to  decide  for  mo  when  the 
proper  time  is  or  is  not,  for  me  to  introduce 
an  amendment.  So  far  as  the  amendment  in- 
troduced by  the  gentleman  from  Winona  (Mr. 
Wilson)  is  concurred,  I  apprehend  there  is 
no  sane  man  who  will  pretend  to  say  that  that 
amendment  is  not  appropriate  in  this  place,  or 
connected  with  this  report.  Here  we  are 
treating  upon  banking  corporations  and  others 
not  municipal.  We  are  treating  upon  railroad 
corporations  and  canal  corporations,  and  all 
others,  of  like  kind  and  character;  and  it  seems 
to  me  that  when  amendments  are  introduced 
which  touch  directly  upon  the  rights  and  lia- 
bilities of  this  kind  of  corporations,  it  does 
not  come  with  any  degree  of  propriety,  to  say 
the  least  of  it,  for  any  man  to  get  up  and  say 
it  is  not  proper — that  it  is  clearly  improper. 
It  is  true  that  an  amendment  of  that  kind 
was  proposed  to  be  inserted  in  the  bill  of 
rights,  and  I  voted  against  it  at  the  time  for  the 
reason  that  I  thought  the  bill  of  rights  was 
not  its  proper  place.  I  thought  that  anything 
connected  with  the  right  of  way,  anything 
connected  with  the  assessment  of  damages  in 
regard  to  the  right  of  way  to  be  taken  by  any 
company,  was  appropriate  imder  the  head  of 
corporations  other  than  municipal.  That  is 
my  opinion  now,  and  it  is  for  that  reason  I 
say  that  the  amendment  introduced  by  the 
gentleman  from  Winona  was  offered  in  its 
proper  place. 

I  know  there  are  other  gentlemen  who  have 
amendments  which  are  proper  at  this  time 
and  in  this  place,  but  as  I  said  before,  it  may 
be  according  to  the  disposition  or  nature  of 
certain  gentlemen,  after  occupying  the  floor, 
time  after  time,  to  undertake  to  move  the  pre- 
vious question  and  cut  off  the  rights  and 
privileges  of  others.  I  tell  them,  they,  in  the 
future,  better  beware. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  have  not  undertaken, 
nor  do  I  undertake  to  dictate  to  any  man 
when  the  proper  time  is  to  offer  an  amendment. 
I  have  not  attempted  to  dictate  to  the  gentle- 
man from  Steele  County  (Mr.  Coggswell),  or 
to  the  gentleman  from  Winona  County  (Mr. 
Wilson). 

The  President  will  recollect  that  I  withdrew 
two  motions  in  order  to  allow  gentlemen  to 
offer  amendments.  But  I  want  the  gentle- 
man from  Steele  County  to  understand,  neither 


shall  I  allow  him  to  dictate  to  me,  when  it  is 
proper  to  move  the  previous  question.  When 
I  do  not  undertake  to  dictate,  I  shall  not  be 
dictated  to.  I  believe  it  is  proper  for  me  or 
any  other  gentleman  of  this  Convention,  if  he 
believes  an  amendment  is  not  introduced  in 
the  proper  place,  to  say  so.  If  I  have  offend- 
ed in  so  saying,  I  plead  guilty,  for  I  did  say 
it.  I  think  the  amendment  was  not  offered 
in  a  proper  place,  and  I  said  so.  The  gentle- 
man from  Steele  County  differs  with  me,  but 
I  claim  the  same  right  he  does. 

Mr.  WILSON.  I  want  to  say  that  the 
modesty — I  would  not  dare  to  give  its  true 
name — that  induces  a  man  to  stand  up  here 
and  say  "  in  my  judgment  amendments  are 
"  proper,  and  I  shall  not  attempt  to  shut  them 
"off"— such  modesty  is  examplary  truly. 
When  this  amendment  was  offered  before  to 
the  Bill  of  Rights,  the  gentleman  could  not  say 
what  he  would  do  upon  its  merits,  but  that- it 
was  not  in  its  proper  place  in  the  Bill  of 
Rights  and  upon  that  groimd  he  would  vote 
against  it. 

Mr.  COLBURN,  I  did  not  say  any  such 
thing.  I  was  not  in  favor  of  the  proposition 
itself. 

Mr.  WILSON.  I  said  the  gentleman  said 
he  should  vote  upon  it  upon  the  ground  that 
it  was  not  in  its  proper  place ;  and  now  to-day 
he  says  it  is  not  in  its  proper  place — thus  con- 
tradicting himseff.  Here  is  modesty  in  the 
extreme;  becoming,  though,  in  some — very 
modest  I 

The  PRESIDENT.  The  question  is  upon 
ordering  the  bill  to  be  engrossed  for  a  third 
reading. 

Mr.  NORTH.  I  was  not  present  during 
the  whole  discussion  upon  this  article.  It 
seems  to  me  that  the  sixth  section  should  bo 
further  amended,  and  I  hope  that  in  some 
manner  it  will  be  done  before  the  report  is 
ordered  to  be  engrossed.  Though  I  am  in 
favor  of  general  laws  as  fei"  as  practicable,  I 
think  there  are  cases  where  there  may  bo  a 
necessity  for  special  laws,  such  .as  charters 
for  railroad  and  other  companies  of  a  like 
character,  where  the  object  can  be  attained 
more  conveniently  by  a  special  than  by  a  gen- 
eral law.  There  are  many  cases  where  the 
Legislature  find  great  diflBculty  in  framing  gen- 
eral laws  to  apply  to  proper  objects  of  legisla- 
tion. I  recollect  there  was  a  bill  before  the  Leg- 


MIXXESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES^Wedxesdat,  AuGuspr  5. 


331 


islature  last  winter,  authorizing  the  erection  of 
a  dam  upon  a  certain  river  of  this  Territory. 
It  was  a  proper  subject  of  legislation  ;  it  was 
a  matter  which  was  needed  and  desired  by 
the  whole  community.  There  was  an  effort 
made  to  get  up  a  general  law  which  should 
cover  that  case,  and  aU  other  cases  of  a  like 
nature.  One  gentleman  said  to  me  that  he 
worked  upon  it  for  several  days,  and  found  it 
almost,  if  not  quite  impossible  to  frame  such 
a  law ;  and  that  it  was  much  easier  to  frame 
a  special  enactment.  I  have  no  doubt  that 
that  is  a  very  common  difficulty.  Whether 
it  is  or  not,  cases  will  arise  which  general  laws 
will  not  cover,  and  to  tie  up  the  legislative 
body  so  that  it  cannot  provide  for  such  cases, 
would  be  imwise. 

Agam,  the  section  provides  that  all  judicial 
laws,  or  special  acts  passed  in  pursuance 
thereof  may  be  altered  from  time  to  time  or 
repealed.  Now  if  that  means  all  that  its  lan- 
guage could  be  construed  to  mean,  it  would 
not  be  safe  for  any  corporation  to  do  any 
business  whatever  under  any  charter  that 
might  be  given  them  by  general  laws  in  this 
State,  because  their  vested  rights  would  not 
save  them  at  all — ^the  Legislature  having  the 
power  by  this  article,  to  repeal,  alter,  or 
amend  the  law  at  their  pleasure.  We  cer- 
tainly ought  not  to  put  things  in  such  a  shape 
as  that.  I  do  not  see  the  necessity  for  any 
such  provision  in  the  Constitution.  It  is 
enough  that  the  Legislature  throws  sufficient 
guard  aroimd  that  right  of  alteration  or  re- 
peal when  they  pass  the  law. 

And  here  I  reiterate  the  idea  often  ex- 
pressed, but  not  regarded  as  it  should  be, 
that  we  are  proceeding  to  legislate  too  much 
in  the  Constitution.  I  am  receiving  letters 
from  all  parts  of  the  country,  from  some  of 
the  wisest  heads  in  the  Territory,  continually 
cautioning  me  against  legislating  in  the  Con- 
stitution. The  people  of  the  Territory  are 
thinking  about  it,  and  feel  concerned  thuat  we 
are  going  too  far  m  that  direction.  I  hope  we 
shall  pause  before  we  consummate  too  much 
of  that  kind  of  legislation. 

Mr.  KING.  I  want  some  considerable  al- 
teration made  in  this  report  before  it  is  or- 
dered to  be  engrossed.  If  it  goes  into  the 
Constitution  as  it  now  stands,  it  will  knock  off 
considerable  many  votes  from  ovu*  Constitu- 
tion, because  any  man  who  understands  the 


nature  of  legislation,  will  see  that  sections 
three,  fovu*,  and  five,  are  mere  legislation,  and 
if  they  go  before  the  people  they  will  be 
judged  of  and  voted  for  or  against,  according 
to  their  merits  ;  every  man  judging  of  them 
according  to  his  own  notions.  I  think  we 
should  pause  and  look  at  this  thing  a  little 
more  carefully,  and  see  if  it  is  not  best  to 
strike  them  out.  The  Constitution  will  cer- 
tainly get  a  much  better  vote  with  them  out, 
than  with  them  in. 

The  question  was  then  taken  on  the  motion 
to  order  the  report  to  be  engrossed,  and  it 
was  decided  in  the  negative. 

Mr.  CoGGSwELL  offered  the  following  as  an 
additional  section : 

"Sec.  — .  No  right  of  way  ahall  be  taken  by, 
or  appropriated  to,  any  corporation,  until  a  fair 
compensation  shall  have  been  paid  or  tendered  to 
the  owner  thereof,  and  also  all  damages  sustained 
by  reason  of  the  taking  or  appropriating  of  the 
same ;  and  in  no  case  shaU  any  benefit  or  supposed 
benefit  which  may  arise  by  reason  of  the  construc- 
tion of  any  Canal,  Railroad,  or  other  internal  im- 
provement, be  taken  into  the  account  in  estimating 
the  amount  of  the  same." 

Mr.  NORTH.  I  would  inquire  if  that 
amendment  is  not  identically  the  same  with 
the  one  offered  by  the  gentleman  fix)m  Wino- 
na (Mr.  Wilson)  ? 

The  PRESIDENT.  The  same  in  substance, 
but  not  the  same  in  language. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  In  my  judgment, 
there  is  quite  a  difference ;  but  I  do  not  pro- 
pose to  go  on  and  point  out  that  difference, 
I  desire  the  yeas  and  nays  upon  the  adoption 
of  my  amendment,  as  an  additional  section. 

The  yeas  and  nays  were  ordered,  and  the 
question  being  put  it  was  decided  in  the  nega- 
tive— yeas  15,  nays  30,  as  follows : 

Yeoi. — Messrs.  Anderson,  Baldwin,  Coggswell, 
ederstam,  Davis,  Duley,  Gerrish,  Harding,  King, 
Kemp,  Mantor,  McCann,  McKune,  Mills,  and  Wil- 
son.— 15. 

Jtays. — Messrs.  Ayer,  Balcombe,  Bates,  Bartho- 
lomew, Billings,  Colburn,  Dickerson,  Eschlie,  Fos- 
ter, Folsom,  Galbraith,  Hayden,  Hudson,  Hanson, 
Holley,  Lyie,  McClure  Morgan,  Murphy,  North, 
Phelps,  Perkins,  Putnam,  Russell,  Stannard,  Se- 
combe.  Smith,  Thompson,  Vaughn,  Sheldon. — 30. 

So  the  amendment  was  rejected. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  I  move  to  strike  out 
section  six.  , 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  rise  to  a  point  of  order. 
That  motion  has  been  once  made  and  voted 
down. 


83^ 


MINNESOTA  CONTENTION  DEBATES- Wednesday,  August  5. 


The  PRESIDENT.  A  motion  was  made 
to  strike  out  section  seven. 

Mr.  COGGS  WEi.L.  I  move  to  amend  the 
motion,  by  so  modifying  it  as  to  strike  out  the 
following  words  from  section  six  : 

"  All  general  laws  or  special  acts  passed  in  pur- 
suance of  this  section,  may  be  altered  from  time  to 
time  or  repealed." 

So  far  as,  the  first  part  of  the  section  is 
concerned,  it  is  right  and  proper  in  my  judg- 
ment. So  far  as  the  latter  portion  is  con- 
cerned, while  there  may  be  cases,  where,  per- 
haps, it  would  be  proper  for  a  Legislature  to 
repeal  certain  acts  conferring  upon  corpora- 
tions vested  rights,  I  am  satisfied  that  there 
might  be  times  when  this  latter  part  of  that 
section  would  be  unconstitutional.  But  the 
first  part  of  the  section  is  right  and  proper, 
and  will  prevent  all  this  special  legislation,  of 
which  we  have  heard  so  much. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  When  the  committee 
had  this  section  under  consideration,  they  did 
not  consider  that  it  would  authorize  the  Leg- 
islature to  interfere  with  vested  rights  ;  but  as 
one  member  of  that  committee,  I  have  no  par- 
ticular objection  to  its  being  stricken  out. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  suggest  to  the  gentle- 
man from  Steele  county,  to  allow  the  vote  to 
be  first  taken  upon  the  motion  of  the  gentle- 
man from  Chisago  (Mr.  Stannard,)  to  strike 
out  the  whole  section. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  I  withdraw  my 
amendment  for  that  purpose. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  Before  the  motion  to 
strike  out  is  put,  I  have  a  word  to  say.  I 
am  perfectly  indifferent,  to  say  the  least, 
about  it,  except  to  this  extent,  that  I  do  not 
see  what  effect  the  section  will  have.  It  may 
be  that  it  will  show  our  good  intentions.  It 
seems  to  me  very  much  like  the  man  saying 
to  his  son,  "  here,  you  go  and  do  this,  and  if 
«' you  don't  please,  you  needn't."  It  says, 
"  corporations  for  purposes  other  than  bank- 
"ing  may  be  formed  by  general  laws" — that 
is,  the  Legislature  shall  have  the  power.  Is 
that  conferring  a  power  upon  the  Legislature, 
which  they  did  not  possess  ?  If  they  did  not 
possess  it,  that  part  is  all  well.  "  But  shall 
*'  not  be  created  by  special  act  except  for  mu- 
"  nicipal  purposes,  and  in  cases  where  in  the 
"judgment  of  the  Legislature  the  object  of 
"  the  corporation  cannot  be  attained  under 
"  general  laws."    Now  here  the  Legislature 


are  constituted  a  jury  to  judge  of  the  facts, 
and  they  will  judge  of  them  from  the  repre- 
sentations of  those  desiring  corporations ;  and 
there  are  no  persons  desiring  corporations  but 
what  want  special  charters.  Most  of  the  old 
States  have  these  general  corporation  laws 
now,  and  yet  every  corporation  goes  right  to 
the  Legislature  and  asks  for  a  special  charter. 
We  have  a  general  law  now  upon  the  statute 
book  of  this  Territory,  and  I  defy  any  man  to 
form  a  corporation  under  it,  worth  anything. 
For  the  Legislature  to  form  a  general  law  at 
one  session,  which  will  cover  manufacturing, 
mining  and  lumbering  business,  is  impossible. 
But  say  you,  they  can  alter  and  amend.  Of 
course  they  may,  but  they  must  alter  or 
amend  it  at  every  session,  or  they  defeat  the 
objects  the  corporations  desire  to  attain.  If 
it  is  our  intention  to  say  that  no  special  act 
shall  be  passed,  let  us  say  so,  and  that  will 
do,  and  will  tie  the  Legislature's  hands.  The 
only  difficulty  I  have  in  voting  for  the  section 
is,  that  I  cannot  see  that  it  is  anything  but 
permissive.  This  does  not  make  it  compul- 
sory upon  the  Legislature  to  pass  a  general 
law,  if  they  choose  not  to  do  so.  And  sup- 
pose they  should  go  to  work  and  pass  any 
number  of  special  charters,  would  this  section 
prohibit  them  ?  Not  at  all.  What,  then,  the 
need  of  the  section  ?  Is  there  any  rule  laid 
down  by  which  you  could  test  the  judgment 
of  the  Legislature  ?  Suppose  they  pass  a  spe- 
cial charter  for  an  iron  company,  and  some- 
body contests  the  constitutionality,  how 
would  you  bring  it  before  the  Supreme  Court 
under  section  six?  It  only  shows  the  good 
will  of  this  Convention.  That  is  the  only  ob- 
jection I  have  to  it.     It  can  do  no  harm. 

Mr.  WILSON.  As  this  section  has  been 
said  to  be  an  unusual  one,  I  would  like  to 
refer  to  a  few  Constititutions  upon  that  point 
— that  is  upon  the  latter  part  of  it.  It  is  not 
by  any  means  a  new  provision,  though  I 
know  that  many  Constitutions  have  no  such 
provision  in  them.  I  think  it  is  perfectly 
right,  and  a  wholesome  provision.  Look  at 
the  influence  of  many  of  those  corporations. 
How  many  States  would  be  glad  to  circum- 
scribe them  ?  The  Constitutions  of  New 
York,  Michigan,  and  Wisconsin,  have  each 
this  same  provision.  As  said  by  the  Chair- 
man of  the  committee,  it  will  not  interfere 
with  vested  rights,  nor  will  any  person  say 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Wednesday,  August  5. 


833 


so,  after  looking  at  it.  It  merely  gives  the 
Legislature  the  power,  after  thei  granting 
those  corporation  powers,  to  modily  those 
powers  if  necessary. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  I  would  ask  whether 
the  Legislature,  without  such  a  clause  as  this, 
would  not,  in  all  cases,  have  the  right  to  alter 
or  repeal,  provided  they  did  not  interfere  with 
vested  rights  ? 

Mr.  WILSON.  I  do  not  think  they  would. 
They  cannot  change,  alter,  modify  or  repeal, 
unless  the  other  party  permits  them  so  to  do. 
I  believe  the  Legislature  has  no  right  to  inter- 
fere with  any  charter,  unless  that  charter 
itself  contains  a  clause,  that  they  shall  have 
the  right  to  do  so. 

The  question  was  then  taken  on  the  motion 
to  strike  out  section  six,  and  it  was  not 
agreed  to. 

Mr.  COGGS  WELL.  I  now  move  to  strike 
out  the  following  words  from  section  six : 

"All  general  laws  or  special  acts  passed  in  pur- 
suance of  this  section  may  be  altered  from  time 
to  time  or  repealed." 

Mr.  STANNARD  demanded  the  yeas 
and  nays,  but  they  were  refused. 

The  amendment  was  agreed  to. 

And  then  the  report  was  ordered  to  be 
engrossed  for  a  third  reading. 

Mr.  THOMPSON  moved,  (at  half  past'four 
o'clock)  that  the  Convention  adjourn. 

The  motion  was  not  agreed  to. 

IMPEACHMENT   AND    BEMOVAL    FBOM   OFFICE. 

On  motion  of  Mr.  COLBURN,  the  Conven- 
tion resolved  itself  into  a  committee  of  the 
Whole,  (Mr.  Hatdex  in  the  Chair)  upon  the 
report  of  the  committes  upon  Impeachments 
and  Removal  from  OflBce.  (For  report  see 
proceedings  of  July  thirty-first.) 

The  report  was  read  through  by  sections 
for  amendment. 

Mr.  BALCOMBE.  I  move  to  strike  out 
section  six.     The  section  is  as  follows : 

"  For  reasonable  cause,  which  shall  not  be  suflS- 
cient  ground  for  the  impeachment  of  a  Judge,  the 
Governor  shall  remove  him  on  a  concurrent  reso- 
lution of  two-thirds  of  the  members  elected  to 
each  House  of  the  Legislature  ;  but  the  cause  for 
which  such  removal  is  required  shall  be  stated  at 
length  in  such  resolution." 

I  hardly  think  it  is  necessary  to  'give  the 
Governor  and  the  Legislature  the  power  of 
removing  a  judge,  where  there  is  not  suffi- 


cient ground  of  impeachment.  There  seems 
to  be  too  much  verbiage  in  this  report,  and  I 
would  like  to  get  rid  of  as  much  of  it  as  pos- 
sible. That  section,  at  any  rate,  seems  to 
me  to  be  unnecessary. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  hope  the  motion  will 
not  prevail.  I  believe  it  is  a  very  necessary 
provision.  There  are  cases  where  there 
would  not  be  considered  sufficient  legal  cause 
for  impf  achment ;  or  in  other  words,  where 
an  impeachment  would  not  be  successful, 
wherein  the  sense  of  the  community  would 
demand  a  removal,  t  do  believe  that  it  is 
necessary  to  have  this  section  retained.  Ca- 
ses of  successful  impeachments  of  judges, 
either  by  Congress,  or  by  the  Legislature  of 
any  State,  are  very  rare,  and  yet  I  believe 
there  are  plenty  of  cases  where  judges  ought 
to  be  impeached ;  or  if  they  cannot  be  im- 
peached, ought  to  be  removed.  And  the 
restriction  here  is  of  such  a  nature  that  I  do 
not  think  it  would  be  injurious  to  the  cause 
of  justice.  It  requires  the  concurrent  resolu- 
tion of  two-thirds  of  the  members  of  each 
House. 

The  motion  to  strike  out  was  not  agreed  to. 

Mr.  SECOMBE  moved  to  add  the  following 
additional  section : 

"  Sec.  8.  No  person  shall  be  removed  or  sus- 
pended from  any  office,  without  first  having  had 
notice  in  writing  of  the  specific  charge  or  accusa- 
tion preferred  against  him  and  opportunity  to  be 
heard  in  his  defence." 

The  amendment  was  agreed  to. 

Mr.  MORGAN.  I  move  to  amend  section 
seven  by  inserting  the  word  "  general "  be- 
fore the  word  "law,"  so  that  the  Legislature 
shall  provide  by  general  law  for  the  removal 
of  coxmty  and  township  officers.  The  object 
is  to  prevent  the  Legislature  from  making  a 
special  law  to  apply  to  a  particular  case. 

The  amendment  was  agreed  to. 

Mr.  MANTOR  moved  to  strike  out  from 
the  third  section  the  words : 

"  No  impeachment  shall  be  tried  until  the  fina  1 
adjournment  of  the  Legislature,  when  the  Senate 
shall  proceed  to  try  the  same." 

The  amendment  was  agi'eed  to. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  I  move  that  the  com- 
mittee rise  and  report  the  report  and  amend- 
ments to  the  Convention. 

Mr.  COGGS  WELL.  I  hope  the  gentleman 
will  withdraw  that  motion  until  I  can  move  to 


384 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Wednesday,  August  5. 


insert  certain  words  which  I  find  in  the  Wis- 
consin Constitution,  for  I  wish  this  to  be  ex- 
actly like  that.     (Laughter.) 

Mr.  GALBRAITH  withdrew  his  motion. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  I  move  to  amend  the 
third  clause  of  section  two  relating  to  the  dis- 
qualifications arising  out  of  impeachment,  by 
inserting  after  the  word  "  ofiice,"  the  words : 
"and  disqualification  to  hold  any  oflice  of 
"  honor,  profit,  or  trust  vmder  the  State." 

Mr.  MORGAN.  I  am  opposed  to  that 
amendment.  It  seems  to  me,  if  the  Legisla- 
tiu:e'  should  impeach  a  Governor  aAd  remove 
him  from  oflBce,  and  the  people  should  subse- 
quently elect  him  to  be  Governor  of  the  State, 
he  ought  to  be  able  to  hold  that  ofiice,  and  not 
be  deprived  of  that  privilege  because  a  part 
of  the  Legislature  perhaps,  had  impeached  and 
removed  him.  Cases  might  occur  where  from 
political  acrimony,  and  difficulties  grown  up 
between  a  Legislature  and  some  ofiicer  of 
State,  they  had  proceeded  to  impeach  him, 
and  the  people  might  not  sustain  the  Legisla- 
ture, but  the  other  party.  It  strikes  me  that 
in  such  ar  case,  the  will  of  the  people  should 
be  obeyed  and  the  ofiicer  be  allowed  if  sub- 
sequently elected  to  office,  to  hold  it. 

The  amendment  was  not  agreed  to. 

And  then,  on  motion  of  Mr.  GALBRAITH, 
the  committee  rose  and  reported  the  report 
and  amendment  to  the  Convention  with  a  re- 
commendation that  the  amendment  be  con- 
curred in. 

The  question  was  severally  taken  on  the 
amendment  made  by  the  committee,  and  they 
were  respectively  concurred  in. 

The  report  was  then  ordered  to  be  engross' 
ed  for  a  third  reading. 

KEPORT   OF  COMMITTEES. 

Mr.  WILSON  from  the  committee  on  Ju- 
diciary made  the  following  report  which  was 
read  a  first  and  second  time  and  laid  on  the 
table  to  be  printed,  viz : 

Skc.  1.  The  Court  for  the  trial  of  impeachments 
shall  be  composed  of  the  Senate.  The  House  of 
Representatives  shall  have  the  power  of  impeach- 
ing all  Civil  Officers  of  this  State  for  corrupt  con- 
duct in  office,  or  for  crimes  and  misdemeanors — 
but  a  majority  of  all  the  members  elected  shal' 
concur  in  such  impeachment.  On  the  trial  of  an 
impeachment  against  the  Governor,  the  Lieuten- 
ant Governor  shall  not  act  as  a  member  of  the 
Court.  No  Judicial  Officer  shall  exercise  his  office 
after  he  shall  have  been  impeached  until  bis  ac- 


quittal. Before  the  trial  of  an  impeachment  the 
members  of  the  Court  shall  take  an  oath  or  affir- 
mation truly  and  impartially  to  try  the  ijnpeach- 
ment  according  to  evidence,  and  no  person  shall 
be  convicted  without  the  concurrence  of  two-thirds 
of  the  members  present.  Judgment  in  case  of  im- 
peachment shall  not  extend  further  than  to  remo- 
val from  office,  or  removal  and  disqualification  to 
hold  any  office  of  honor,  profit  or  trust,  under  the 
State,  but  the  party  impeached  shall  be  liable  to 
indictment,  trial  and  punishment  according  to  law. 
Sec.  2.  The  Judicial  power  of  this  State  both 
as  to  matters  of  law  and  equity,  shall  be  invested  * 
in  a  Supreme  Court,  Circuit  Courts,  Probate 
Courts,  and  in  Justices  of  the  Peace.  Municipal 
Courts  of  limited  Criminal  and  Civil  jurisdiction, 
may  also  be  established  by  the  Legislature  in  Cities 
— Provided,  That  Municipal  Courts  shall  not  have 
jurisdiction  in  their  respective  municipalities  to 
exceed  the  jurisdiction  of  Circuit  Courts,  in  their 
respective  Circuits.  The  Judges  of  the  Municipal 
Courts  shall  be  elected  by  the  qualified  electors  of 
their  respective  jurisdictions,  and  for  a  term  not 
longer  than  that  of  the  Judges  of  the  Circuit 
Courts. 

Sec.  3.  The  Supreme  Court  shall  consist  of 
three  Judges,  a  majority  of  whom  shall  constitute 
a  quorum  and  a  concurrence  of  two  of  said  Judges 
shall  in  all  cases  be  necessary  to  a  decision.  The 
Judges  of  the  Supreme  Court  shall  be  elected  for 
the  term  of  nine  years. 

Sec.  4.  The  Supreme  Court  except  in  cases 
otherwise  provided  in  this  Constitution  shall  have 
appellate  jurisdiction  only ;  but  in  no  case  remov- 
ed to  the  Supreme  Court,  shall  have  a  general  su- 
pervisory control  over  all  inferior  Courts.  It  shall 
have  power  to  issue  writs  of  habeas  corptcs,  man- 
damus, pj'oMhition,  quo  ivarratito,  certiorari,  and 
other  original  remedial  writs,  and  to  bear  and  de- 
termine the  same ;  its  jurisdiction  shall  be  co-ex- 
tensive with  the  State. 

Sec.  5.  The  State  shall  be  divided  into  three 
districts — such  districts  shall  be  formed  of  conti- 
guous territory,  as  nearly  equal  population  as, 
without  dividing  a  County,  the  same  can  be  jnade.  " 
One  of  the  Judges  of  the  Supreme  Court  shall  be 
elected  by  the  qualified  electors  of  each  district, 
and  he  shall  reside  therein  during  his  continuance 
in  office. 

Sec.  6.  The  office  of  one  of  the  Judges  shall  be 
vacated  at  the  expiration  of  the  third  year — of 
another  at  the  expiration  of  the  sixth  year — of  the 
third  at  the  expiration  of  the  ninth  year,  so  that 
one  of  the  Judges  of  the  Supreme  Court  shall  bo 
elected  every  third  year. 

Sec.  7.  The  Secretary  of  State,  on  receiving 
the  official  returns  of  the  first  election  shall  pro- 
ceed immediately  in  the  presence,  and  with  the  as- 
sistance of  two  Justices  of  the  Peace  to  determine 
by  lot,  among  the  three  candidates  having  the 
highest  number  of  votes  in  their  respective  dis- 
ricts,  which  of  the  Judges  elect  shall  serve  for  the 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Wednesdat,   August  5.  335 


tenn  of  three  yeats,  which  shall  serve  for  the  term 
of  six  jears,  and  which  for  the  term  of  nine  years  • 
and  the  Governor  shall  issue  commissions  accord- 
ingly. And  the  Judge  whose  commission  expires 
in  three  years  shall  be  Chief  Justice  during  his 
term  of  office,  and  after  him  the  Judge  senior  in 
commission  shall  be  Chief  Justice. 

Skc.  8.  The  Supreme  Court  shall  upon  the  de- 
cision of  every  case  give  a  statement  in  writing  of 
each  question  arising  in  the  record  of  such  case  and 
the  decison  of  the  Court  thereon. 

Sec.  9.  The  Legislature  shall  provide  by  law 
for  the  speedy  publication  of  the  decisions  of  the 
Supreme  Court  under  this  Constitution.  All  Ju- 
dicial  decisions  shall  be  free  for  publication  by  any 
person. 

Sec.  10.  The  Supreme  Court  shall  hold  at  least 
one  term  annually  in  each  district  of  the  State  at 
such  time  and  place  as  may  be  provided  by  law. 

Sec.  11.  There  shall  be  chosen  by  the  qualified 
electors  of  each  district  of  the  State,  one  Clerk  of 
the  Supreme  Court,  who  shall  hold  his  office  for 
the  term  of  three  years,  and  until  his  successor  is 
duly  elected  and  qualified.  Provided,  That  a  Clerk 
of  the  Circuit  Court  may  be  elected  Clerk  of  the 
Supreme  Court,  »nd  the  Judges  of  the  Supreme 
Court,  or  a  majority  of  them,  shall  have  the  power 
to  fill  any  vacancy  in  the  office  of  Clerk  of  the 
Supreme  Court,  until  an  election  can  be  regularly 
had. 

Sec.  12.  The  Circuit  Court  shall  have  original 
jurisdiction  in  all  matters,  civil  and  criminal  within 
this  State,  not  excepted  in  this  Constitution,  aad 
not  prohibited  by  law,  and  appellate  jurisdiction 
from  all  inferior  Courts  and  tribunals,  and  a  su- 
pervisory control  of  the  same.  They  shall  also 
have  power  to  issue  writs  of  Jiaheas  corpus,  man- 
damus, injunction,  quo  warranto,  certiorari,  and 
other  writs  necessary  to  carry  into  eflfect  their 
orders,  judgments,  and  decrees,  and  to  give  them 
a  general  control  of  inferior  Courts  [and  tribunals 
within  their  respective  jurisdictions. 

Sec.  13.  The  State  shall  be  divided  by  counties 
into  six  judicial  circuits.  A  judge  for  each  circuit 
shall  be  elected  by  the  voters  thereof  for  the  term 
of  six  years.  He  shall  reside  within  the  circuit  for 
which  he  was  elected  during  his  continuance  in 
office.  The  Legislature  may  by  law,  increase  the 
nunjber  of  circuits  as  may  become  necessary. 

Sec.  li.  ^^^^  circuit  judge  shall  hold  Court  at 
least  twice  a  yeai',^°  every  county  within  his  cir- 
cuit organized  for  judiciJ!^  purposes.  The  judges 
of  the  circuit  court  may  hold  tt.''^''^s  for  each  other, 
and  shall  do  so  when  required  by  laT- 

Sec.  15.  There  shall  be  elected  by  ih^  qualified 
electors  of  each  county  organized  for  judiciiil  pur- 
poses one  clerk  of  the  circuit  court,  who  shall  hold 
Ms  office  for  two  years,  and  until  his  successor 
shall  be  elected  and  qualified.  The  judges  of  any 
circuit  court  shall  fill  any  vacancy  in  the  office  of 
clerk  until  the  same  can  be  filled  by  an  election. 


The  county  clerk  may  be  chosen  or  elected  clerk 
of  the  circuit  court. 

Sec  16.  No  person  shall  be  eligible  to  the  office 
of  judge  of  any  court  of  this  State,  who  is  not  a 
citizen  of  the  United  States,  who  shall  not  have 
resided  in  this  State  two  years  next  preceding 
his  election,  and  who  shall  not  at  the  time  of  the 
election  be  a  qualified  elector  of  the  district,  cir- 
cuit or  county,  in  which  he  may  be  a  candidate  for 
election ;  nor  shall  any  person  be  elected  judge  of 
the  supreme  court  who  shall  not  have  attained  the 
age  of  thirty  years ;  and  no  person  shall  be  eligible 
to  the  office  of  judge  of  the  circuit  court  until  he 
shall  have  attained  the  age  of  twenty-six  vears. 
Pi-owhd,  that  at  the  first  election  under  this  Con- 
stitution a  longer  residence  in  this  State  than  one* 
year  shall  not  be  required  in  order  to  be  eligible 
to  the  office  of  judge  of  any  court. 

Sec.  17.  The  judges  of  the  supreme  and  circuit 
courts  of  this  State  shall  receive  at  stated  times  a 
compensation,  which  shall  not  be  diminished 
during  their  continuance  in  office. 

Sec.  is.  There  shall  be  elected  in  each  judicial 
circuit,  by  the  voters,  thereof,  a  prosecuting  attor- 
ney, who  shall  hold  his  office  for  the  term  of  two 
years,  and  until  his  successor  is  elected  and  quali- 
fied, and  his  duties  and  compensations  shall  be 
prescribed  by  law. 

Sec.  19.  There  shall  be  established  in  each 
county  organized  for  judicial  purposes,  a  probate 
court,  holden  by  one  judge,  elected  by  the  voters 
of  the  county,  who  shall  hold  his  office  for  the 
term  of  two  years,  and  until  his  successor  is  elected 
and  qualified.  He  shall  receive  such  compensation 
as  shall  be  prescribed  by  law. 

Sec.  20.  The  probate  court  shall  have  jurisdic- 
tion in  probate  and  testamentary  matters,  the  ap- 
pointment of  administrators  and  guardians,  the 
settlement  of  the  accounts  of  executors,  adminis- 
trators, and  guardians,  and  for  the  sale  of  lands 
by  executors,  administrators,  and  guardians,  and 
such  other  jurisdiction  in  probate  and  testamentary 
matters  as  may  be  prescribed  by  law. 

Sec  21.  The  supreme  court,  circuit  courts,  and 
probate  courts  shall  be  courts  of  record  and  have 
a  common  seaL 

Sec  22.  The  several  judges  of  the  supreme 
and  circuit  courts,  and  of  such  other  courts  as 
may  be  created,  shall  respectively  have  and  exer- 
cise such  power  of  jurisdiction  at  chambers  as 
may  be  directed  by  law. 

Sec  23.  The  Legislature  shall  have  power  to 
vest  in  the  clerks  of  the  supreme  and  circuit 
courts,  or  of  such  other  courts  as  Ihay  be  estab- 
lished by  the  Legislature,  authority  to  grant  such 
orders  and  do  such  acts  as  may  be  deemed  neces- 
sary for  the  furtherance  of  the  administration  of 
justice,  but  in  all  cases  the  powers  thus  granted 
shall  be  specific  and  determined. 

Sec  2-L    In  case  the  office  of  any  judge  shall     • 
become  vacant  before  the  expiration  of  the  regu- 
lar term  for  which  he  was  elected,  the  vacancy 


336 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Thubsdat,  August  6. 


shall  be  filled  by  appointment  of  the  Governor 
until  a  successor  is  elected  and  qualified,  and  such 
successor  shall  be  elected  for  the  unexpired  term 
at  the  first  annual  election  that  occurs  more  than 
thirty  days  after  the  vacancy  shall  have  happened. 

Sec.  25.  A  competent  number  of  justices  of  the 
peace  shall  be  elected  by  the  electors  in  the  several 
counties.  Their  term  of  oflBce  shall  be  two  years, 
and  their  powers  and  duties  shall  be  regulated  by 
law. 

Sec.  26.  There  shall  be  an  attorney  general 
elected  by  the  voters  of  the  State,  whose  term  of 
ofiice  shall  be  two  years,  and  until  his  successor  is 
elected  and  qualified,  and  whose  duties  shall  be 
prescribed  by  law. 

Sec.  27.  All  judicial  officers  shall  be  conserva- 
tors of  the  peace  in  their  respective  districts. 

Sec.  28.  If  any  cause  shall  be  pending  in  the 
supreme  court  in  which  any  two  of  the  judges 
thereof  shall  be  personally  interested,  the  Gover- 
nor shall  appoint  competent  persons  to  act  as 
judges  during  the  trial  of  such  cause,  in  the  place 
of  the  judges  thus  interested. 

Sec.  29.  The  style  of  all  process  shall  be  "  The 
People  of  the  State  of  Minnesota,"  and  all  prose- 
cutions shall  be  conducted  in  the  name  and  by  the 
authority  of  the  same. 

And  then,  on  motion  of  Mr.  Noeth,  (at 
five  o'clock  and  ten  minutes)  the  Convention 
adjourned. 


TWENTY-SECOND  DAY. 

Thursday,  August  6th,  1857. 
The  Convention  met  at  9  o'clock,  a.  m. 
Prayer  by  the  Chaplain,  Rev.  E.  D.  Neill. 
The  journal  of  yesterday  was  read  and  ap- 
proved. 

REPORTS. 

Mr.  LOWE,  from  the  committee  upon  State 
Seal  and  Coat  of  Arms,  made  the  following  re- 
port, which  was  read  a  first  and  second  time 
and  laid  upon  the  table  to  be  printed,  viz  : 

"Your  committee  would  report  that  they  have 
taken  the  subject  devolved  upon  them  into  consid- 
eration, and  have  procured  a  design  for  a  Seal  and 
Coat  of  Arms,  from  a  competent  person,  and  would 
recommend  the  adoption  of  the  same.  For  a  moro 
particular  knowledge  of  the  device  your  committee 
would  refer  to  the  design  itself  which  accompanies 
this  report,  but  would  say  in  general  that  it  repre- 
sents a  waterfall,  (supposed  to  be  that  of  Minne- 
haha,) within  a  shield.  This  part  of  the  device  is 
intended  to  symbolize  the  idea  of  water,  for  the 
amount  and  varied  forms  of  which  Minnesota  is 
distinguished  above  any  other  part  of  our  country, 
and  probably  above  any  other  part  of  the  world. 
In  addition,  is  represented  the  figure  of  an  Indian, 


with  his  face  turned  towards  the  setting  sun,  and 
with  his  tomahawk  and  bow  and  arrows  at  his  feet. 
Opposite  the  Indian  is  the  figure  of  a  white  man, 
with  a  sheaf  of  wheat  and  some  of  the  implements 
of  agriculture  at  his  feet.  The  Indian  is  represen- 
ted as  asking  of  the  white  man,  by  an  imploring 
gesture,  whither  he  shall  go,  and  the  white  man  is 
responding  by  pointing  to  the-  implements  of  ag- 
riculture, as  indicating  that  he  must  now  assume 
the  habits  of  civilized  life.  In  one  corner  of  the 
field  appears  a  distant  view  of  Lake  Superior,  with 
a  ship  in  sail.  In  another  is  a  view  of  a  river, 
(which  may  be  supposed  to  be  the  Minnesota,)  run- 
ning to  the  westward,  with  a  steamboat  ascending 
its  stream.  In  rear  of  the  shield  and  waterfall, 
three  pine  trees  are  placed,  which  are  typical  of 
the  three  great  pine  regions — the  St.  Croix,  the 
Mississippi,  and  Lake  Superior. 

"  For  a  motto  to  accompany  the  words,  '  State  of 
Minnesota,  A.  D.  1857,'  which  are  placed  upon  the 
upper  rim  of  the  seal,  only  two  phrases  have  sug- 
gested themselves  to  your  committee  as  suitable. 
One  is  the  expression  from  one  of  the  Latin  poets. 
'  Fulget  intaminatia  honoribus  f  which  may  be 
thus  translated :  She,  or  it,  (Minnesota)  shines  or 
is  refulgent  with  untarnished  honors.  This  would 
be  more  significant  and  appropriate  than  most  of 
the  Latin  mottoes  placed  upon  the  seals  of  the 
States,  but  the  one  the  committee  have  placed  upon 
the  design  accompanying  the  report,  and  which 
they  recommend  for  adoption,  is  taken  from  a  cele- 
brated speech  of  one  of  the  greatest  of  our  Orators, 
and  which,  as  giving  expression  to  the  two  great 
id? as  which  have  always  swayed  the  American  mind, 
and  always  must  sway  it,  they  think  well  worthy  to 
be  forever  linked  with  the  fortunes  and  memory  of 
the  State  of  Minnesota.  '  Liberty  and  Union,  now 
and  forever .' 

"  The  committee  would  remark  that  the  principal 
feature  of  the  seal,  that  of  the  waterfall  has  been 
suggested  to  them  by  a  number  of  the  members  of 
the  Convention.  For  the  accessory  features  of 
the  seal,  they  are  indebted  in  great  part  to  the 
suggestion  of  an  artist  and  designer  of  this  city, 
to  whom  they  are  happy,  on  this  occasion,  to  ac- 
knowledge their  obligations — Mr.  R.  Ormsby  Swee- 
ney." 

Mr.  KEMP,  from  the  committee  to  whom 
was  referred  the  subject  of  official  salaries, 
made  the  following  report,  which  was  read  a 
first  and  second  time  and  laid  upon  table  to 
be  printed,  viz : 

"That  as  many,  if  not  all  other  reports,  in  which 
there  is  reference  made  to  State  Offices,  they  have 
provided  for  the  compensation  of  the  same  by 
leaving  it  to  the  Legislature. 

"  We  would  therefore  merely  recommend : 

"That  all  salaries  of  State  Officers  shall  be 
fixed  by  the  State  Legislature  at  its  first  8cs.<«ion. 
With  this  recommendation  your  committee  would 
respectfully  osk  that  they  may  be  discharged." 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Thcbsdat,  Acqcst  6. 


837 


ELECTIVE  FRANCHISE. 

On  motion  of  Mr.  COLBCRN,  the  Con- 
vention resolved  itself  into  a  committee  of  the 
Whole,  (Mr.  Sjiith  in  the  Chair)  to  take  into 
consideration  the  report  of  the  committee  on 
the  Elective  Franchise. 

(For  report,  see  proceedings  of  July  30.) 

The  first  section  of  the  report  was  read  as 
follows : 

"Sectiox  1.  Every  white  male  inhabitant  o' 
the  age  of  twenty -one  years  and  upwards,  (ex- 
cepting persons  under  guardianship,  and  persons 
of  unsound  mind)  who  shall  have  resided  in  the 
State  six  months,  and  town,  ward  or  precinct,  in 
which  he  may  claim  the  right  to  vote,  ten  days 
next  preceding  any  election  shaU  be  entitled  to 
vote  at  such  election,  if  he  be  a  citizen  of  the 
Uhited  States,  or  if  he  has  been  an  inhabitant  of 
the  United  States  for  two  years  next  preceding  the 
election  at  which  he  may  claim  the  right  to  vote; 
or  if  he  shall  be  an  inhabitant  of  this  State  at  the 
adoption  of  this  Constitution.  Provided  always, 
that  no  person  of  foreign  birth — and  not  a  citizen 
of  the  United  States — shall  be  a  qualified  elector 
until  he  shall  have  declared  his  intention  to  be- 
come a  citizen  in  conformity  with  the  laws  of  the 
United  States  on  the  subject  of  naturalization." 

Mr.  MESSER.  Mr.  Chairman,  I  move  to 
amend  the  article  by  striking  out  the  word 
"  white"  in  the  first  line,  and  upon  that  amend- 
ment I  desire  to  submit  a  few  remarks. 

The  sentiment  declared  in  the  Declaration 
of  Independence  that  all  governments  among 
men  derive  their  just  powers  fi"om  the  consent 
of  the  governed ;  that  all  men  are  created  fi*ee 
and  equal ;  I  am  aware  are  called  by  modem 
sages,  rhetorical  flourishes.  But  I  believe 
they  are  sentiments  which  will  flourish  long 
after  the  author  of  them  has  been  forgotten. 
Sir,  I  believe  that  in  the  insertion  of  this  word 
white  into  our  Constitution,  we  should  be 
adopting  a  principle  which  would  be  striking 
at  the  dearest  rights  a  man  can  enjoy  under 
our  government — the  elective  franchise.  The 
word  "  white,"  in  this  connection,  has  prac- 
tically no  meaning,  although  it  refers  to  men 
of  color,  or  descendents  from  the  Afirican  race. 
But  there  is  nothing  definite  in  regard  to  it, 
as  might  easily  be  shown. 

I  wish  to  allude  to  some  of  reasons  which 
are  urged  by  those  who  would  insert  this 
word  here,  why  it  should  be  so  inserted.  One 
reason  which  I  have  heard  urged  by  mem- 
bers of  this  body,  and  which  I  hear  urged 
everywhere,  where  this  question  is  discussed, 
43 


is  that  those  to  whom  it  applies  are  negroes. 
WTien  you  ask  why  they  should  not  enjoy 
the  right  of  elective  firanchise,  you  are  told 
that  they  are  negroes.  That  is  the  alpha  and 
omega  of  their  objection.  Now  sir,  this  rea- 
son, potent  as  it  may  be  in  the  minds  of  those 
who  ui^  it,  is  no  reason  in  my  mind  why 
that  class  should  be  deprived  of  this  highest 
privilege  under  our  government. 

Another  reason  urged  is  that  the  colored 
man  is  inferior  to  the  white  man ;  that  he  was 
made  such  by  his  Creator,  and  therefore  he 
should  not  enjoy  that  privilesre.  In  despo- 
tism the  principle  is  that  "  might  makes  right;" 
but  imder  a  Republican  form  of  government 
justice  holds  the  scales,  and  the  poor  man's 
vote  weighs  as  much  as  the  rich  man's.  The 
vote  of  the  humblest  individual  in  the  com- 
munity, poor  though  he  may  be,  ignorant  and 
unlettered  as  he  may  be,  will  weigh  as  much 
as  the  vote  of  the  wisest  statesman  in  IJbe 
government.  And  this  principle  is  acknowl- 
edged here  in  this  body. 

I  do  not  propose  to  consume  much  of  the 
time  of  this  Convention,  because  I  know  there 
are  other  gentlemen  in  this  body  better  qual- 
ified than  myself  to  discuss  this  question ; 
but  I  desire  to  mx^  a  few  reasons  why  this 
word  should  be  stricken  out,  and  why  the 
class  of  persons  it  proscribes  should  enjoy 
this  right  of  sufirage.  In  the  first  place,  he 
has  committed  no  crime  which  should  disfi^n- 
chise  him.  He  is  responsible  to  this  govern- 
ment, and  amenable  to  all  its  laws,  for  his 
acts,  and,  therefore,  he  should  have  a  voice 
in  its  formation.  It  is  said,  in  that  declara- 
tion which  I  have  quoted,  that  "  all  govem- 
"  ments  among  men  derive  their  just  powers 
"  firom  the  consent  of  the  governed."  I  am 
not  disposed  to  discuss  here  whether  colored 
persons  are  men  or  not.  I  believe  it  is  con- 
ceded in  this  body,  that  an  immortal  spirit 
a  human  soul,  may  exist  under  a  black,  an 
olive,  or  a  white  skin.  Our  revolutionary 
fathers  acknowledged  that  principle  in  the  de- 
claration of  independence;  and  could  those 
lips  speak  now,  they  would  acknowledge  that 
principle  here  to-day. 

My  second  reason  is,  that  colored  men 
stood  shoulder  to  shoulder  with  white  men 
upon  the  battle-fields  of  the  revolution.  His 
blood,  equally  with  that  of  the  white  man, 
enriches  the  soil  of  our  common  country. 


3S8 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Thursd at,  August  6. 


But  while  the  white  man  was  rewarded  with 
pensions  while  living,  and  monuments  of  mar- 
ble when  dead,  the  colored  man  has  been 
chained,  fettered,  and  deprived  of  the  dearest 
ri^ts  which  can  be  enjoyed  under  this  gov- 
ernment— the  right  of  suffrage. 

The  justice  of  the  colored  man's  claim  is 
acknowledged  here ;  but  say  gentlemen,  it  is 
not  policy  to  strike  out  this  word.  I  should 
like  to  know  whether  it  is  our  best  policy  to 
barter  truth  for  falsehood,  and  whether  we 
should  make  anything  by  compromising  the 
truth  ?  In  every  trade  made  with  Satan,  man 
has  been  cheated,  from  Eden  to  Minnesota, 
and  ever  will  be.  If  we  attempt  to  barter 
away  what  we  know  to  be  right,  for  what  we 
know  to  be  wrong,  I  believe  we  shall  be  cheat- 
ed. (Hear !  hear !  )  Are  we  fearful  that  the 
colored  man  will  gain  an  ascendency  in  this 
country  ?  I  do  not  fear  it ;  and  though  I  did 
fear  it,  I  would  still  argue  upon  the  side  of 
justice,  and  would  give  all  the  races  upon  the 
earth  a  fair  field,  and  not  attempt  to  throw 
obstacles  in  the  way  of  the  elevation  of  any 
race.  Let  the  force  of  intellect  and  mind 
carry  them  up  to  the  highest  point  of  their 
development. 

I  believe,  too,  that  by  striking  out  this  word 
we  shall  gain  strength  in  presenting  our  Con- 
stitution to  the  people  of  the  Territory.  By 
striking  it  out,  we  shall  make  our  Constitu- 
tion a  Sampson  in  strength ;  but  with  the 
word  in,  a  Sampson  shorn  of  his  locks,  and 
the  sport  of  the  Philistine  Democracy.  Many 
have  told  me  that  they  would  not  vote  for  a 
Constiljition  with  this  word  in  it ;  and  not 
only  so,  but  that  they  would  use  their  influ- 
ence against  it.  I  beheve  there  is  a  majority 
in  this  Territory  who  are  opposed  to  the  prin- 
ciple which  the  insertion  of  this  word  estab- 
lishes. I  sincerely  believe  it,  and  I  think  we 
shall  find  it  to  be  so. 

Furthermore,  I  believe  that  if  two  Consti- 
tutions are  to  be  submitted  to  the  people, 
there  should  be  some  point  of  issue  between 
them,  and  that  we  should  start  out  with  the 
advantage  which  this  principle,  which  I  pro- 
pose to  establish,  will  give  us ;  and  that  we 
should  be  able  to  say  to  the  people  that  wo 
present  them  with  the  very  best  Constitution 
which  it  was  in  our  power  to  frame,  and  one 
which  we  believe  they  will  approve  of. 
Though  we  should  send  out  a  Constitution 


containing  a  principle  which  we  know  to  be 
wrong,  yet  there  is  a  tribunal  before  wliich 
this  Constitution  must  go  to  be  ratified — the 
tribunal  of  conscience,  and  the  tribunal  of 
Heaven ;  and  if  it  is  not  ratified  there,  it  will 
sooner  or  later  be  amended.  It  cannot  stand. 
There  is  no  principle  but  that  of  truth  and 
justice  which  will  stand  the  test  of  time.  It 
may  stand  for  to-day,  but  sooner  or  later, 
truth  must  triumph.  Though  we  should  fail 
to-day,  let  us  stand  upon  tliose  principles 
which  must  ultimately  triumph,  and  which 
our  consciences,  and  our  God  will  approve. 

Mr.  MANTOR.  I  have  been  looking  with 
considerable  anxiety  from  day  to  day,  since 
this  body  assembled,  to  see  this  report  of  the 
committee  upon  the  Elective  Franchise,  and  I 
promised  myself,  when  the  time  should  arrive 
for  the  consideration  of  this  important  matter, 
that  I  should  be  found  advocating  the  motion 
which  is  now  before  the  committee — the  mo- 
tion to  strike  out  this  word  "  white."  ,  But  I 
find  myself,  from  a  prostration  of  my  physi- 
cal system,  unable  to  advocate  this  measure, 
as  I  could  desire.  Therefore  I  shall  proceed 
to  make  only  a  very  few  remarks,  and  in  what  I 
do  say,  I  wish  to  have  it  understood,  now  and 
forever,  that  I  am  following  out  the  dictates 
of  my  head  and  my  heart.  There  is  no  ques- 
tion which  has  come  before  this  body,  which 
has  given  occasion  for  so  much  feeling  and 
anxiety,  as  this  one  of  striking  out  the  word 
"white"  from  the  report  of  the  committee 
upon  the  Elective  Franchise.  It  has  given 
rise  to  great  political,  as  well  as  moral  feeling, 

Mr.  President,  were  we  here  under  differ- 
ent circumstances,  I  should  not  attempt,  at 
this  time,  to  adduce  some  argimients  which 
I  propose  now  to  do ;  but  when  I  look  aroimd 
me,  and  see  a  body  of  men,  who  are  opposed 
to  all  kinds  of  oppression,  shrinking  from  ad- 
vocating their  real  sentiments  upon  this  sub- 
ject, from  the  nonsensical  fear  which  some 
persons  have,  that  we  shall  not  be  able  to 
carry  our  Constitution  before  the  people,  I 
must  say  something.  Many  members  of  this 
Convention  cannot  extricate  themselves  from 
the  dilemma  in  which  this  question  places  them, 
except  by  the  miserable  pretext  of  policy. 
The  proposition  is  to  strike  out  the  word 
"white"  and  thereby  leave  the  Constitution 
free  from  that  odium  and  reproach  to  which 
■0  many  Constitutions  are  subjected.    This 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Thijbsday,  August  6. 


839 


word,  when  inserted  in  the  Constitution  is 
.  fraught  with  much  meaning.  It  signifies  a 
restraint  of  liberty;  and  upon  accoimt  of 
what?  The  color  of  the  skin.  "When  this 
word  is  stricken  out  of  the  Constitution,  that 
instrument  means  a  very  different  thing.  It 
would  then  extend  equal  suffrage  and  equal 
rights  to  all.  The  idea  of  an  equality  of  rights 
seems  to  have  been  the  idea  which  prompted  * 
Washington,  a  Madison,  a  Monroe,  a  Jeffer- 
son, a  Franklin,  and  a  host  of  venerable  moj, 
to  rise  and  strike  off  the  head  of  tyranny  and 
usurpation  which  seemed  to  be  brooding  over 
them.  "We  have  incorporated  into  oiu:  Bill  of 
Bights  those  remarkable  words  that  "  all  men 
"  are  endowed  by  their  creator  with  certain  in- 
"  ahenable  rights,  among  which  them  are  life, 
'*  liberty  and  the  pursuit  of  happiness,"  but 
now  the  idea  of  conferring  upon  the  colored 
man  such  grave  rights,  seems  to  some  men 
to  be  preposterous.  We  have  been  taught  to 
look  upon  colored  men  in  a  ludicrous  light. — 
We  find  it  difficult  to  give  them  a  place  in 
our  affections  and  esteem.  We  have  looked 
upon  them  as  persons  with  whom  we  have 
nothing  to  do,  except  to  employ  them  in  me- 
nial offices  for  our  benefit, — upon  whom  we 
are  to  bestow  nothing,  but  firom  whom  we  are 
to  expect  everything.  It  is  not  easy  therefore, 
to  secure  for  them  rights  which  they  really 
desire.  Now  it  seems  to  be  admitted  here, 
that  colored  men  possess  all,  or  nearly  all 
the  natural  qualities  which  go  to  make  them 
equal  to  us.  They  possess,  in  common  with 
us,  the  faculties  to  perceive,  to  appreciate,  and 
to  admire.  The  black  man  has  a  mind  to  re- 
flect, and  to  adore.  He  has  the  body  of  a 
man,  the  functions  of  a  man,  and  the  mind  of 
a  man.  He  has  a  heart  which  beats  in  sym- 
pathy at  the  afflictions  of  his  fellow  man.  He 
is  fed  with  the  same  kind  of  food,  warmed  by 
the  same  sun  and  breathes  the  same  air- 
Prick  him  and  he  will  bleed,  tickle  him  and  he 
will  laugh,  and  administer  to  him  the  poisoned 
chalice  and  he  will  die.  If  then  he  has  a  na- 
ture like  ours,  let  us  seek  to  elevate  him 
through  this  Constitution.  If  we  do  not,  let 
us  secure  him,  at  once,  a  kingdom  by  himself. 
Down-trodden  as  he  may  be,  let  him  have  a 
sun  of  his  own.  But  do  not,  you  proud  au- 
tocrats of  the  Territory  of  Minnesota,  place 
your  iron  heel  upon  the  colored  man,  and 
swear  that  he  does  not  possess  any  vested 


rights,  which  you  are  bound  to"  respect  To 
strike  out  the  word  "white''  from  the  Con- 
stitution, and  leave  it  to  the  people  to  say 
whether  they  will  or  will  not  accept  it,  wil 
not  be  hazarding  the  reputation  of  a  body  of 
men  whose  opinions  I  very  much  admire,  and 
whose  calm  deliberations  and  judgment  I  very 
much  respect.  I  mean  the  Republican  party, 
which  this  day  possesses  a  political  faith  pre- 
eminently above  all  fi^ctional  and  sectional 
parties, — a  party  which  I  have  been  taught 
to  believe  to  be  right  upon  all  questions  of 
poUtical  importance.  With  the  people  I  am 
willing  to  rest  the  whole  thing. 

But  sir,  to  make  a  man's  political  rights  de- 
pendent upon  his  color,  is  whimsical  and  arbi- 
trary. You  might  as  well  object  to  a  man's 
possessing  the  right  of  suffrage  because  he 
happened  to  be  bom  on  the  last  day  of  the 
year,  or  because  he  was  not  bom  on  the  fourth 
da}'  of  July.  It  would  be  just  as  reasonable 
as  to  exclude  a  man  fi-om  the  right  because 
he  happens  to  be  black.  It  is  but  a  very  few 
years  since  a  large  number  of  men  through- 
out the  country  declared  that  they  dissolved 
all  connection  with  that  class  of  men  who 
happened  to  be  foreign  bom,  and  their  poKti- 
cal  rights  were  proscribed  on  account  of  their 
foreign  birth.  That  class  of  proscriptionists 
assumed  a  political  name,  and  established 
certain  signs  whereby  they  might  know  each 
other  in  the  dark  as  well  as  in  the  light, 
"  Know-Nothingism "  was  inscribed  upon 
their  banner,  and  their  motto  was  "  The  flag 
*  of  our  Union."  That  political  party  soon 
'began  to  win.  But  a  revulsion  soon  took 
place,  and  popular  opinion  began  greatly  to 
change,  and  that  whole  political  party  wiU 
soonsink  to  the  earth.  And  I  am  astonished 
in  looking  at  this  report  to  find  the  names  of 
three  men  attached  to  it  who  are  of  foreign 
birth.  Now,  gentlemen,  I  appeal  to  you  to- 
day to  think  upon  this  subject.  How  is  it 
that  men,  who  a  few  days  ago,  as  it  were, 
were  proscribed  in  this  very  respect,  come 
now  before  this  body  and  attach  their  names 
to  a  report  which  will  disfiranchise  a  certain 
portion  of  our  citizens  ?  But,  sir,  those  who 
oppose  equal  suffrage  to  colored  men,  possess 
less  liberality  even  than  those  who  proscribe 
foreigners.  The  one  proscribes  on  account  of 
foreign  birth,  and  the  other  proscribes  on  ac 
count  of  color,  not    foreign.    Suppose  we 


340 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Thursday,  August  6. 


were  disposed  to  carry  this  principle  out  at 
length,  and  declare  that  a  man,  in  order  to 
become  an  elector  in  the  State  of  Minnesota, 
should  have  dark  hair,  blue  eyes  and  red 
whiskers  ?  How  many  members  of  this  Con- 
vention would  indulge  in  ideas  of  that  kind  ? 
It  would  be  simply  ridiculous.  But  mark 
you,  all  the  above  qualities  are  strong  marks 
of  the  Anglo-saxon  race.  And  yet  that 
ivould  be  quite  as  reasonable,  as  to  proscribe 
on  account  of  color. 

I  ask  any  man  what  objection  there  is  to 
striking  out  the  word  "  white  ?  "  I  am  an- 
swered that  policy,  that  outside  influences, 
demand  that  we  should  retain  that  word : 
that  this  Constitution  which  we  are  framing  is 
to  go  before  the  people  for  their  adoption  or 
rejection,  and  that  in  order  to  meet  the  wishes .. 
and  views  of  the  masses,  this  word  should 
remain  where  it  is :  that  if  it  is  stricken  out, 
it  would  be  a  sure  defeat  of  the  Constitution. 
But,  sir,  I  have  yet  to  learn  that  men  are  to 
barter  principle  for  policy.  It  has  been  done 
many  times  to  attain  certain  ends,  yet  I  have 
no  right  to  trample  upon  the  personal  rights 
of  men. 

But  I  am  reminded  here  of  that  oft  used 
argument,  that  a  temporising  policy  is  better 
than  defeat.  Let  me  answer  that  argument 
in  the  language  of  the  immortal  Clay,  "  bet- 
ter be  right  than  to  be  President."  Then  let 
us  throw  off  this  disguise  of  policy,  and  wash 
our  political  garments  while  in  the  waters  of 
Jordan,  Let  us  snatch  one  coal  from  the  smol- 
dering embers  upon  the  altar  of  liberty, 
and  apply  it  here,  that  we  may  be  enabled  to 
say  to  our  constituents,  when  we  go  home, 
that  we  present  to  them  a  Constitution  which 
has  been  renovated  by  fire. 

It  has  been  provided  in  some  of  our  New 
England  States  that  a  colored  man  may  vote 
by  being  the  owner  of,  and  paying  a  tax  on, 
a  certain  amount  of  property.  While  I  am 
opposed  to  all  property  qualifications  for  vo- 
ting, I  cannot  but  think  that  such  a  privilege 
would  be  valuable,  even  ifit  were  encumbered 
by  such  a  restriction.  By  leaving  this  word 
in  the  Constitution,  and  giving  countenance 
to  this  distinction,  we  place  a  stain  upon  our 
State  which  will  not  easily  be  wiped  out.  It 
is  a  policy  which  will  lead  to  crime,  because 
we  could  expect  nothing  better  of  that  race  of 
men  than  that  they  should  desire  to  be  the 


avengers  of  the  wrong  committed  upon  them 
in  this  way.  We  have  been  taught  to  regard  • 
liberty  as  national  and  not  sectional.  Who 
can  wonder  then  that  I  should  be  surprised 
when  I  see  a  disposition  manifested  here, 
from  outside  pressure,  to  encumber  this  re- 
port with  the  word  "white."  Do  not,  by 
this,  believe,  that  I  fear  that  Minnesota  will 
be  a  slave  State^  and  that  our  free-soil  will  be 
contaminated  with  this  national  curse.  While 
I  am  a  firm  believer  in  the  right  of  free  suf- 
frage, and  free  Territory  to  all,  I  still  desire 
to  look  at  the  interests  of  every  class  of  peo- 
ple who  settle  in  our  Territory,  and  to  make 
a  Constitution  which  shall  be  as  clear  from 
every  thing  which  would  be  objectionable  to 
the  people,  as  we  can.  When  we  have  done 
that,  we  have  done  all  that  can  be  required 
of  us.  When  we  have  accomplished  that, 
Minnesota  with  her  broad  prairies,  her  wood 
land,  her  waters,  and  her  thrice  loved  clime, 
will  invigorate  the  body  and  enliven  the  soul 
of  every  weary  traveler  in  this  our  thrice 
prosperous  and  happy  state. 

Mr.  FOSTER.  I  offer  the  following  sub- 
stitute for  section  one : 

"  Sec.  1.  Every  white  male  person  of  the  age 
of  twenty-one  years  and  upwards,  (excepting  por- 
sons  under  guardianship,  non  ccmvpos  mentis, 
or  insane)  belonging  to  either  of  the  following 
classes,  who  shall  have  resided  in  this  State  for 
six  months,  and  in  the  town,  ward  or  precinct,  in 
which  he  may  oflFer  to  vote,  for  ten  days  next  pre- 
ceding any  election,  shall  be  deemed  a  qualified 
elector  at  such  election,  viz : 

"First. — Citizens  of  the  United  States. 

"Second. — Every  person  of  foreign  birth  who 
shall  exhibit  a  certificate  from  a  proper  court  of 
record  that  he  has  declared  his  intentions  to  be- 
come a  citizen  of  the  United  States  in  conformity 
to  the  laws  of  the  United  States. 

2%irc?.— Civilized  persons  of  Indian  descent, 
not  members  of  any  tribe." 

I  am  not  going  to  make  a  speech  of  any 
length  upon  this  subject,  but  in  offering  the 
amendment  I  would  say,  that  while  retaining, 
in  pursuance  of  deliberations  heretofore  had, 
the  word  "  white,"  I  am  one  of  those  who 
hold  to  the  principle  of  the  common  rights  of 
humanity  without  regard  to  birth-place,  or 
to  creed,  or  to  complexion.  Dr.  Franklin,  I 
think  it  was,  alluding  to  the  early  times  of 
the  country,  when  one  of  the  qualifications  of 
a  voter  in  a  certain  part  of  the  country  was 
that  ho  should*  own  a  mule  or  a  jackass,  put 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES—Thtbsdat,  Atjgcst  6. 


841 


the  question  whether,  in  that  case,  it  was  the 
man  that  voted,  or  the  jackass?  Now  it 
strikes  me  that  in  requiring  a  certain  shade 
of  complexion  as  a  quaUfication  for  voting, 
we  put  mankind  pretty  nearly  in  the  same 
predicament.  Complexion  has  nothing  to  do 
with  a  man's  mental  capacity  ;  nothing  to  do 
with  his  political  efficiency ;  and  nothing  to 
do  with  his  ability  to  serve  the  State,  either  in 
the  councils  of  the  nation,  or  upon  her  battle 
fields.  A  man  may  be  other  than  white,  and 
yet  not  be  an  African.  Instead  of  belonging 
to  the  Caucassian  race,  which  is  pure  white, 
he  may  belong  to  the  Malay  race,  or  the 
ftidian  race,  and  yet  he  may  be  competent  to 
perform  all  the  duties  which  the  law  requires 
of  him  as  a  citizen.  This  prejudice  of  color 
appears  to  me  most  contemptible  and  foolish. 
Because  a  man  may  happen  to  have  a  certain 
dark  shade  of  complexion,  or  because  his 
forefathers  may  have  been  in  a  degraded  con- 
dition, not  because  of  their  own  act,  but 
because  some  superior  power  or  brigand  force 
may  have  been  brought  to  bear  upon  them ; 
to  say  that  for  any  such  reasons,  he  and  his 
descendents  shall  for  all  time  to  come,  have 
no  rights  which  the  white  man  has,  is  a  doc- 
trine unworthy  of  high-minded  and  intelligent 
beings,  and  I  have  no  sympathy  with  it.  And 
while  I  express  myself  in  this  way,  anfl  would 
like  to  see  a  different  state  of  things,  yet  in 
framing  this  Constitution  and  submitting  it  to 
the  people,  we  have  not  only  this,  but  other 
ends  to  attain,  and  other  objects  to  accomplish. 
I  am  in  favor  of  discussing  this  question,  and 
of  educating  the  people  up  to  the  mark ;  but 
as  public  men  and  statesmen  we  have  got  to 
take  the  people  as  they  are,  and  for  the  time 
being,  to  do,  not  all  the  good  that  ought  to  be 
done,  but  all  we  can  do.  And  it  is  upon  that 
ground,  and  that  only,  that  I  am  willing  to 
consent  to  admit  the  word  "white"  in  the 
Constitution,  for  I  do  not  believe  the  people  are 
quite  up  to  the  lughest  mark  of  principle :  the 
force  of  prejudice  is  yet  so  great  among  them. 
I  am  willing  to  go  as  fast  as  I"  can,  but  because 
I  cannot  get  all  good,  I  am  not  willing  to 
say  that  I  will  not  have  any  thing  which  is 
good.  I  am  in  favor  of  inserting  the  word 
"  white,"  purely  upon  the  ground  of  expedi- 
ency, and  I  am  not  ashamed  to  say  it.  It  is 
extremely  desirable,  in  view  of  the  contest  in 
which  the  nation  is  engaged,  that  Minnesota 


should  not  be  delayed  from  coming  into  the 
Union  at  the  earliest  possible  moment.  We 
all  can  see  that  freedom  is  going  to  gain  prac- 
tically in  the  councils  of  the  nation  by  Minne- 
sota coming  into  the  Union  as  soon  as  possible. 
A  great  contest  is  going  on  between  the 
antagonistic  powers  of  slavery  and  freedom, 
for  the  plains  of  the  West;  and  going  on,  not 
only  for  that  purpose,  but  to  wrest  the 
national  government  from  its  proper  purposes, 
and  to  establish  the  principle  that  the  Consti- 
tution of  the  United  States  is  a  Slave 
Constitution,  and  that  its  adoption  was  simply 
and  solely  to  protect  the  institution  of  slavery. 
Such  are  the  doctrines  now  broached,  and  a 
great  contest  is  now  waging  upon  those  princi- 
ples, and  it  is  important  that  Minnesota 
should  come  in,  so  that  her  voice  and  influence 
may  be  cast  in  the  scale  of  freedom.  That  is 
the  practical  effect  I  wish  to  accomplish.  If 
we  go  to  Congress  with  two  Senators  upon 
the  floor  of  the  Senate,  and  our  members  in 
the  House,  all  upon  the  side  of  freedom,  we 
accomplish  more  for  the  cause  of  freedom — 
freedom  for  the  white  and  freedom  for  the 
black — ^tiian  we  should  by  engaging  here  in  a 
vain  contest  upon  an  abstraction,  and  thereby 
fiifl  in  aU  these  great  objects  we  have  in  view. 
As  I  said  before,  I  am  willing  to  attain  the 
greatest  good  I  can  for  the  time  being,  and 
with  that  desire  you  will  see  that  I  have  put 
into  that  amendment  a  provision  that  civilized 
persons  of  Indian  descent,  not  members  of 
any  tribe,  shall  be  electors.  Some  may 
object  to  that,  on  the  groimd  that  it  allows 
persons  of  a  particular  class,  not  white,  to 
vote,  while  we  exclude  another  class,  not 
white,  from  the  same  privilege.  I  feel  dis- 
posed to  recognize  the  objection  to  its  fullest 
extent.  But  in  obedience  to  the  principle  I 
have  declared,  of  attaining  as  much  good  as 
possible  for  the  time  being,  and  endeavoring 
to  educate  the  people  to  going  as  far  as  they 
ought,  I  aq^  willing  to  allow  half-breeds  to 
vote.  The  people,  I  think,  are  willing  to  go 
that  far.  Indeed,  it  would  be  great  injustice 
to  that  class  of  people,  after  having  enjoyed 
the  privilege  of  voting  for  so  long  a  time,  to 
refuse  them  that  privilege,  now  or  hereafter, 
simply  because  we  cannot  extend  to  another 
race,  against  whom  the  people  have  great 
prejudices,  the  same  privilege.  At  the  same 
time  that  I  am  for  doing  whatever  is  right, 


348 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Thursdat,  August  6. 


yet  because  I  cannot  get  all  that  is  right  for 
one,  I  am  not  for  doing  wrong  to  another. 
When,  under  all  the  circumstances,  the  people 
are  willing  to  admit  this  class  to  the  privilege 
of  voting,  I  am  not  for  excluding  tliem, 
because  another  class  is  excluded. 

There  is  another  point  in  which  the  amend- 
ment differs  from  the  original.  My  substitute 
provides  that  every  person  of  foreign  birth, 
who  has  resided  in  the  State  six  months,  who 
has  declared  his  intention  to  become  a  citizen 
of  the  United  States,  conformably  to  the  laws 
of  the  United  States,  and  shall  exhibit  a  cer- 
tificate from  a  proper  court  of  record  that  he 
has  so  declared  his  intention,  shall  have  the  right 
to  vote.  That  is  the  system  which  has  here- 
tofore prevailed  in  this  Territory,  and  I  think 
it  would  be  sound  policy  to  adopt  it  in  our 
Constitution.  A  clause  in  regard  to  the  evi- 
dence by  which  the  fact  is  proved — that  is, 
the  exhibition  of  the  seal  of  a  court  of  record, 
should  be  placed  in  the  Constitution.  It  is, 
after  all,  only  going  back  to  the  common  law 
axiom,  that  the  best  evidence  which  is  extant, 
shall  be  produced  in  every  case.  In  the  State 
of  Pennsylvania,  I  think,  without  any  legisla- 
tion, it  was  always  held  that  a  person  at  the 
polls  should  produce  his  certificate  of  natural- 
ization, because  that  was  the  best  evidence 
the  case  admitted  of.  But  if  you  allow,  as 
you  have  heretofore,  foreigners  to  come  up 
and  swear  that  they  have  declared  their  inten- 
tions, it  would  be  objected  to  on  the  part  of 
many.  The  trouble  is  this — take  St.  Paul, 
for  instance  :  There  are,  perhaps,  many  per- 
sons here — I  need  not  designate  the  particu- 
lar class — to  whom  such  an  oath  is  consid- 
ered of  the  character  of  what  they  call,  in 
smuggling,  custom-house  oaths ;  who  consider 
that  a  man  commits  no  sin  in  taking  and 
breaking  them.  There  is  no  diflficulty  in  get- 
ting any  number  of  such  men.  Sometimes 
you  may  find  those  whose  consciences  prick 
them  a  little,  but  there  are  always  enough  of 
them  to  accomplish  the  object  sought  by 
those  who  desire  to  have  them  vote.  For 
that  reason,  I  am  in  favor  of  requiring  the 
certificate  as  evidence  of  the  fiict  of  declara- 
tion of  intention. 

In  another  point,  my  substitute  differs  from 
the  original  which  requires  a  residence  of  two 
years  in  the  United  States,  six  months  of 
which  shall  be  in  the  Territory.    The  substi- 


tute does  not  require  that.  It  simply  re- 
quires that  they  shall  have  declared  their  in- 
tention to  become  citizens,  and  prove  that  by 
their  certificates  under  seal ;  and  shall  have 
resided  in  the  State  six  months,  ani  in  the 
precinct  in  which  they  may  offer  to  vote,  ten 
days.  Then  they  are  entitled  to  vote.  Such 
is  the  rule  in  our  elections  now.  If  you  put 
in  a  two  year's  residence,  the  remarks  I  made 
in  regard  to  oaths,  would  apply  to  that,  be- 
cause a  man  who  would  falsely  swear  that  he 
had  declared  his  intentions  would  find  no 
great  difficulty  in  lumping  in  an  oath  that  he 
had  resided  two  years  in  the  United  States. 
While  such  a  provision  would  operate  as  no 
bar  to  polling  votes  in  the  cities,  yet  in  the 
country,  among  the  foreign  population  who 
have  a  more  conscientious  regard  for  their 
oaths,  it  would  operate  as  an  effectual  bar  to 
their  voting.  The  law-abiding  men  of  foreign 
birth,  who  reside,  for  the  most  part,  in  the 
country,  are  most  likely  to  be  Republicans. 
As  a  general  thing  they  are,  and  if  they  are 
not  now,  they  will  soon  be.  I  think  our- pol- 
icy should  be  for  the  largest  liberty  upon  that 
point. 

Mr.  HUDSON.  While  I  wish  to  have  it 
understood  that  I  am  willing  to  act  with  the 
majority,  as  they  see  fit  in  determining 
whether  the  vvoM  "  white"  shall  be  inserted 
in  this  place  in  the  Constitution,  yet  I  claim 
the  privilege  of  expressing  the  reasons  why  I 
am  opposed  to  it.  I  am  decidedly  in  favor  of 
striking  the  word  "  white"  from  this  section. 
The  great  object  of  a  Constitution  should  be 
to  protect  the  weak.  It  was  to  secure  the 
people  against  tyranny  and  oppression  that 
the  first  Bill  of  Rights  was  ever  written,  in  the 
early  part  of  the  thirteenth  century,  by  the 
people  of  Hungary.  About  seven  years  later, 
for  the  same  object,  the  Magna  Charta — that 
great  platform  of  civil  hberty — was  extorted 
from  King  John  by  the  people  of  England. 

The  great  principle  involved  in  the  amend- 
ment is,  equal  rights  to  all  men.  That  prin- 
ciple, sir,  is  the  fundamental  principle  in  the 
Declaration  of  Independence.  That  principle 
is  prominent  in  the  Constitution  of  the  United 
States.  That  principle  we  recognize  and  en- 
dorse in  our  Bill  of  Rights.  That  principle 
we  propose  to  reject  in  the  main  part  of  our 
Constitution.  That  principle,  sir,  is  Repub- 
lican, and  is  consistent  with  the  genius  of  our 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Thtbsday,  August  6. 


343 


government.  The  opposite  is  Aristocracy 
and  Monarchy.  ^Vhy  do  we  propose  to  re- 
ject it  ?  Not  because  gentlemen  consider  it 
wrong.  They  tell  us  it  is  not  policy.  Is  not 
right,  sir,  always  popular?  It  is  true  that  it 
will  not  always  secure  to  individuals  political 
aggrandizement,  but  it  will  always  promote 
the  interest  of  humanity,  and  future  genera- 
tions will  rise  up  to  bless  those  who  had  cour- 
age to  stand  up  in  its  defence. 

I  believe  that  the  right  of  suffrage  should 
be  extended  to  every  native-bom  citizen  of 
the  United  States  who  has  sufficient  intelli- 
gence to  read  the  Constitution.  But  if  we  do 
not  propose  to  make  intelligence  the  standard, 
I  would  have  no  standard  but  citizenship. 
What  is  the  objection  to  the  amendment? 
The  strong  argument  is,  would  you  introduce 
the  negro  into  society  ?  would  you  introduce 
negroes  into  the  councils  of  our  nations  ? 
Would  you  place  bim  upon  the  judicial  bench  ? 
Would  you  have  him  for  Governor,  or  for 
President  ?  Mr.  Chaibjiax,  I  have  heard  this 
argument  used  in  the  State  of  New  York, 
when  the  question  was  before  the  people 
there.  I  heard  it  in  Michigan,  when  the 
question  was  before  the  people  there;  and 
that  argimient  has  found  its  way  to  Minneso- 
ta. We  proclaim  to  the  world,  that  the  Uni- 
ted States  is  a  home  for  all  .that  may  choose 
to  settle  within  her  borders  ;  that  they  shall 
be  governed  by  her  institutions,  that  they 
shall  help  support  tliem,  and  that  they  shall 
help  to  make  them,  if  they  are  white.  But 
we  propose  to  trample  in  the  dust  about  one- 
fourth  of  our  whole  population,  while  we  pro- 
claim equal  rights  to  aU  men,  and  this  an  asy- 
lum for  the  oppressed. 

I  was  about  to  say,  Mr.  Chairman,  that 
this  amendment  would  prevaU,  but  I  dare  not 
hope.  Pride,  that  progenitor  of  all  evil,  whis- 
pers in  the  public  ear,  "  keep  them  down." 
But,  sir,  we  will  not  despair.  In  the  future, 
there  is  hope.  Truth  is  mighty,  and  will  pre- 
vail. Justice  cries,  "  Raise  them  up."  Hu- 
manity cries,  "Raise  them  up."  The  God  of 
Heaven  cries,  "  The  captive  shall  be  free."  I 
believe,  sir,  the  time  will  come  when  universal 
suffrage  will  be  extended  to  all  men,  on  the 
basis  of  intelligence,  and  not  of  color. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  I  rise  not  to  make  a 
lengthy  speech  upon  this  matter.  My  views 
are  known  to   every  member  here,  and   I 


wish  not  now  to  urge  them.  I  believe  those 
gentleman  who  advocate  this  amendment  are 
actuated  by  good  intentions,  and  I  desire  no 
better  evidence  of  their  good  intentions  than 
their  wish,  expressed  here,  to  elevate  those 
beneath  them.  I  accord,  then,  to  those  gen- 
tlemen all  they  can  ask  as  to  honesty  of  pur- 
pose. But  I  do  ask  them  when  they  make 
their  arguments,  not  to  take  it  for  granted 
that  the  course  they  propose  is  right,  and  that 
any  other  course  that  other  men  see  fit  to 
pursue,  is  therefore  wrong.  I  should  hope 
that  in  the  speeches  of  those  gentlemen,  they 
would  argue  the  question,  and  show  that  they 
are  right  by  argument,  and  not  come  out  with 
bold  assumptions  that  they  are  right  and 
every  body  else  wrong.  We  say  that  this 
is  a  debatable  question— a  question  upon  which 
great  and  good  minds  can  and  do  differ.  And 
we  say  further,  that  we,  as  the  representatives 
of  the  people,  claiming  to  reflect  their  views 
upon  the  subject,  have  the  right  to  do  so 
here,  and  that  we  act  in  accordance  to  what 
we  believe  to  be  the  views  of  our  constitu- 
ents. Those  gentlemen  have  the  same  right, 
but  while  they  assume  that  they,  and  they 
only,  are  right,  there  should  some  argu- 
ments be  put  upon  the  record  to  show  why 
they  are  right. 

Let  us  see  whether  their  argument  does 
not  prove  too  much.  In  the  first  place,  they 
assume  that  the  Declaration  of  Independence 
declares  entire  freedom  for  all  mankind.  They 
also  declare  that  a  man's  highest  state  of  hap- 
piness is  in  his  right  to  vote.  They  seem  to 
assimae  that  the  chief  end  of  man  Is  voting — 
voting.  They  argue,  and  put  their  own  stress 
upon  it,  that  the  negro  should  vote  at  all  haz- 
ards. Now  we  say  it  is  not  wise  or  proper, 
under  present  circumstances,  to  let  him  vote. 
And  further,  many  of  us  are  honestly  of 
opinion,  that  it  is  not  in  accordance  with  the 
genius  of  our  institutions,  to  assimulate  the  ne- 
gro with  us,  and  make  him  a  native  resident  citi- 
zen of  this  country.  Many  of  us  believe  that 
his  home  is  among  his  fellows,  and  that  he  is 
a  stranger  among  us.  And  so  the  facts 
prove.  Gentlemen  may  cry  out,  in  their 
affection  for  the  poor  degraded  African,  what 
they  please,  yet  he  remains  among  us  without 
friends.  The  voice  of  community  in  this 
coimtry  says  that  the  poor  African  is  a  de- 
graded being,  and  hide  it  as  we  will,  it  is  so. 


344 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Thubsday,  August  6. 


An  African  voting !      Let  him  vote  and  still 
he  moves  amongst  us  as  an  outcast.     What 
are  his  social  privileges  here  ?    Will  we,  or 
can  we,  by  constitutional  provisions,  elevate 
him  to  a  position  in  society  the  white  man 
occupies  ?    Who,  in  this  Convention,  with  all 
his  philanthropy,  will  take  the  negro  by  the 
hand,  and  lead  him  into  his  family,  be  he  ever 
so  good  and  intelligent;  introduce  him  to  his 
daughter,   and    permit  him  to  marry  her? 
There  is  a  plain  question.     Who  will  do  it  ? 
The  seal  of  degradation  is  upon  the  poor 
down-trodden  African,  and  years  and  ages 
must  pass  by  before  that  seal  can  be  removed. 
No  man,  I  hope,  would  sooner  see  it  removed 
than  myself.     But  how  shall  we  do  it?    Gen- 
tlemen say  let  him  vote,  and  that  will  secure 
the  whole  thing.     But.  does  not  the  argument 
prove  too  much  ?    You  quote  the  declaration 
of  Independence,  to  show  that  the  chief  end 
of  man  is  to  vote,  and  that  that  is  a  right 
which  every  man  should  possess.     And  then 
you  bring  up  the  argument  that  taxation  and 
representation  are  inseparable.     Why  then 
do  you  not  move  to  strike  out  the  word 
"male,"  and  "twenty-one, years,"  from  this 
Constitution  ?    And  you  gentlemen  could  do 
it  with  more  propriety  than  you  could  strike 
out  the  word  "white."     Women  pay  taxes 
in  this  Territory,  and  I  am  satisfied  that  the 
great  body  of  the  intelligence  and  the  virtue 
of  the  country  is  bound  up  in  the  female 
heart,  and  that  she  is  better  prepared  to  vote 
correctly  upon  all  great  questions,  than  a  ma- 
jority of  men,  white  though   they  be.     Let 
the  female  Heart  express  its  opinion  through 
the  ballot  box,   and   Hottentotism,    if  you 
please  to  call  it,  flies  the  lahd.     There  would 
be  an  appeal  from  the  Dred  Scott  decision, 
which  would  go  forth  and  make  the  four  cor- 
ners of   the    earth  ring,   and  it  would  be 
answered  from  Heaven,  and  the  appeal  would 
be  sustained.     Let  the  female  voice  be  heard, 
and  that  decision,  which  would  have  come 
well  from  a  Hottentot  court,  would  be  re- 
versed by  the  voice  of  the  land.     Consistency 
then  would  require  you  to  do  that,  and  yet 
who   here   wishes  to  strike   oiit  the  word 
male?    We  say  that  females  have  other  voca-  I 
lions ;''  that  it  is  their  business  to  remain  at  \ 
home,  and  that  it  is  ours  to  meddle  in  politi-  ' 
cal  matters.     Their  sphere  lies  in  a  different  j 
direction.    They  are  our  mothers,  and  the  t 


mothers  of  our  children,  and  we  would  not 
remove  them  from  their  present  sphere.  But 
what  becomes  under  these  circumstances,  of 
the  argument  that  all  men  are  created  free 
and  equal,  and  that  the  chief  end  of  man  is 
voting?  What  becomes  of  the  argument 
that  taxation  and  representation  are  insepa- 
rable, unless  we  give  woman  the  privilege  of 
voting  ? 

We  must,  in  all  the  circumstances  of  life, 
do  what  we  can  do,  and  not  what  we  wish  to 
do.  Human  nature  is  imperfect.  We  have 
a  great  beau  ideal  of  perfection  held  out  to  go 
by,  and  we  may  approximate  to  it,  and  come 
as  close  to  it  as  we  can.  But  we  must  do 
one  thing  at  a  time  and  do  it  well.  It  will 
not  do  to  sacrifice  all  the  best  interests  of  our 
country,  because  we  cannot  do  every  thing 
at  once.  We  must  exercise  a  wise  policy; 
and  a  wise  policy  is  to  let  women  remain 
where  they  are,  to  educate  them,  to  make 
them  wise  and  virtuous  beings  to  preside  over 
the  household  goods  of  the  land.  Nature 
has  marked  out  her  position,  and  it  is  not  in 
the  power  of  human  legislation  or  of  this 
Convention  to  alter  the  fiat  of  nature. 

But  be  that  as  it  will,  nature  has  placed 
upon  the  African  a  mark,  which  it  is  useless 
for  legislatures  or  this  Convention  to  try  to 
remove.  Let  thp  negroe  be  elevated  ;  let  him 
be  educated ;  let  him  be  entitled  to  all  the  pro- 
tection of  our  laws ;  and  if  our  friend  can 
raise  him  up  to  a  lofty  position,  be  it  as  high 
as  the  name  of  Washington,  no  one  will  re- 
joice more  than  your  humble  speaker.  But 
the  first  thing  is  not  to  make  him  a  voter. 
The  first  thing  is  to  destroy  this  social  inetjual- 
ity.  How  ?  By  making  him  a  voter  ?  You, 
gentlemen,  who  know  so  much  about  the  con- 
taminations around  the  ballot  box,  ought  to 
know  that  it  is  not  the  way  to  elevate  a  man 
to  bring  him  up  to  the  ballot  box  on  the  day 
of  election. 

While  gentlemen  would  accuse  some  of  us 
of  voting  upon  this  subject  as  a  matter  of 
policy,  I  tell  them  I  vote  upon  it  conscien- 
tiously, as  a  matter  of  right  and  policy,  just 
as  I  would  upon  striking  out  the  word  "  male." 
I  would  vote  against  that  as  a  matter  of  right 
and  policy,  because  I  think  what  is  not  poli- 
tic and  wise  can  never  be  right.  Wisdom  is 
always  right;  and  sound  policy  is  always 
right ;  and  to  talk  here  of  sacrificing  policy 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Thubsday,  August  6. 


345 


to  principle,  what  is  it !  Sound  policy  is  al- 
ways composed  of  good  principles,  wise  prin- 
ciples. Policy  is  wisdom  reduced  to  system. 
"Why  then  charge  home  on  us  because  we  say 
it  is  both  politic  and  right  to  retain  this  word ; 
that  we  are  all  wrong  and  you  all  right? 
We  accord  to  you  good  intentions  in  advo- 
cating your  views,  and  I  hope  to  Heaven,  the 
day  may  come  when  the  African  will  rise  up 
to  the  position  of  a  man ;  when  he  may  be- 
come noble  and  respected,  and  when  the 
clanking  of  the  chain  of  the  same,  and  the 
accursed  foot  of  the  bondman  may  no  more 
curse  the  soil  of  America.  That  day  I  hope 
not  to  see  myself,  but  when  we  are  dead,  and 
right  and  truth  will  prevail,  the  God  of  battles 
and  of  peace  will  in  his  own  good  time,  work 
the  way  and  means  of  removing  this  stain 
from  the  fair  escutcheon  of  om*  American 
States.  Grod  speed  the  day  when  that  may 
come  about,  and  to  that  end  let  us  direct  our 
energies.  The  RepubUcan  party  is  a  unit  on 
this  one  thing,  and  to  slavery  we  say,  "  thus 
"  far  hast  thou  gone,  but  no  farther." 

That  is  the  groimd  I  stand  upon.  Nail  our 
flag  to  the  mast  there,  and  slavery  has  a 
woimd  inflicted  in  it,  which  will  cause  its 
death  as  sure  as  the  revolution  of  the  earth. 

Mr.  MORGAN.  I  move  to  amend  the 
second  division  of  the  substitute,  by  inserting 
after  the  word  "  birth"  the  words  "  who  has 
resided  in  the  United  States  two  years." 

Mr.  BALCOMBE.  I  do  not  exactly  see 
the  propriety  of  ofiering  that  amendment,  as 
the  question  now  stands  before  us.  That 
question  is  involved  in  a  vote  upon  the  sub- 
stitute for  the  section  as  reported  by  the  com- 
mittee. The  gentleman's  amendment  would 
simply  put  in  the  same  language  that  is  in  the 
original  section.  That,  I  take  it,  is  the  main 
difference  between  the  amendment  of  the 
gentleman  from  Dakota  and  the  original  sec- 
tion. The  other  difierences  are  merely  dif- 
ferences of  phraseology  and  not  of  substance. 
I  am  in  favor  of  the  substitute,  in  place  of  the 
original  section ;  first  for  the  reason  of  the 
change  which  is  proposed  to  be  made  by  it; 
and  for  the  further  reason  that  it  expresses 
th«  meaning  intended  to  be  conveyed,  in  a 
more  concise  form  than  the  original  section. 

Mr.  MORGAN.     I  am  in  favor  of  the  sub- 
stitute, because  I  think  it  expresses  our  wish- 
es in  a  more  direct  and  simple  manner  than 
44 


the  original  section,  and  also  because  there  is 
another  requisition  in  the  substitute,  which  I 
think  is  important ;  and  that  is  that  persons 
of  foreign  birth,  upon  oSering  to  vote  shall 
exhibit  some  evidence  of  their  having  made 
their  declaration  of  intention  to  become  citi- 
zens of  the  United  States.  But  I  do  think 
there  should  be  required  a  residence  of  not 
less  than  two  years  in  the  country. 

Mr.  WILSON.  I  do  not  care  myself 
whether  this  substitute,  as  proposed  to  be 
amended,  be  passed,  or  the  original  section, 
with  this  exception,  that  I  do  not  like  that 
part  of  it  which  applies  to  Indians  and  those 
of  mixed  Indian  blood.  Whether  it  be  fm 
honor  or  a  dishonor  to  be  a  foreigner,  I  claim 
no  honor  from  it,  and  acknowledge  no  inferi- 
ority on  account  of  it.  There  are  a  number 
of  others  in  this  Hall  "in  the  sam*  position, 
and  I,  as  one  of  that  number,  say  I  never 
wiU  submit  to  anything  wrong,  nor  will  I  ask 
for  anything  wrong — and  to  ask  for  foreigners 
the  right  of  equal  suffrage  with  American 
citizens,  is  wrong,  and  more  than  the  foreign 
population  ask  for.  I  say  this  in  their  name, 
and  I  know  this  to  be  the  fact.  It  is  going  be- 
yond all  precedent ;  it  is  bidding  for  a  vote 
which,  I  wish  to  say,  cannot  generally  be 
bought ;  and  it  is  offering  to  the  foreign  pop- 
ulation what  they  knew  they  should  not 
have. 

There  is  another  difference  between  the 
substitute,  and  the  original  section,  and  on 
account  of  which  I  shall  favor  the  original 
section.  The  original  section  gives  to  every 
person  who  is  a  resident  of  this  Territory,  at 
the  time  of  the  adoption  of  this  Constitution, 
and  who  shall  have  been  a  resident  of  the 
United  States  six  months,  and  who,  if  of  for- 
eign birth,  has  declared  his  intention  to  be- 
come a  citizen,  the  right  to  vote.  That  I  am 
in  favor  of  We  are  making  those  now  resi- 
ding in  the  Territory  a  general  exception  to 
the  qualifications  required  both  for  oflBcers  and 
for  voters.  The  emigration  into  this  TeiTito- 
ry  has  been  sudden.  Many  foreigners  have 
settled  throughout  our  Territory,  have  borne 
the  heat  and  the  burden  of  the  day,  and  have 
assisted  to  make  Minnesota  what  she  is,  and 
I  am  in  favor  of  extending  the  privilege  of 
voting,  to  every  foreigner  who  has  resided  in 
the  Territory  six  months  previous  to  the 
adoption  of  this  Constitution,    But  I  am  ojp- 


S46 


[MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Thubsd at,  August  6. 


posed  to  extending  the  right  of  suffrage  to 
those  who  come  in  subsequently,  short  of  a 
residence  of  two  years.  I  am  opposed  to  the 
substitute,  though,  if  it  should  be  adopted,  I 
hope  it  will  be  amended  as  proposed  by  the 
gentleman  from  Hennepin  county  (Mr  Mor- 
gan). But  I  prefer  the  original  article  just  as 
it  is.  I  do  not  want  members  of  this  Conven- 
tion to  extend  any  favors  to  foreigners  which 
they  do  not  think  they  justly  merit.  I  think 
the  intelligent,  thinking  foreign  population  of 
the  United  States  will  consider  it  rather  as 
an  insult  than  a  favor.  They  know  they  are 
not  well  enough  acquainted  with  our  institu- 
tions to  vote  intelligently  when  they  have 
been  in  the  United  States  six  months,  or  to 
hold  office  until  they  have  been  here  a  longer 
period.  Why  should*  we  make  such  a  pro- 
vision ?  Are  we  not  exalting  foreigners  over 
American  citizens  when  we  say  they  may 
vote  after  a  six  months  residence  ?  We  do 
not  let  American  citizens  hold  offices  until 
they  have  been  here  two  years.  Why  V  Be- 
cause we  want  to  become  acquainted  with 
them  and  know  what  they  are.  Be  not  incon- 
sistent. Do  not  hold  out  to  foreigners  any 
such  bid,  thinking  they  can  be  caught  in  any 
such  trap.  I  am  opposed  to  it.  Let  us  vote 
the  amendment  down.  But  I  do  say  that  I 
hope  every  foreigner  who  has  come  here  and 
helped  to  make  Minnesota  what  she  is,  and 
has  been  in  this  Territory  six  months  previ- 
ous to  the  adoption  of  this  Constitution,  shall 
be  permitted  to  vote.  He  is  one  of  us.  Our 
foreign  population  have  done  their  full  share 
in  developing  our  Territory,  and  let  us  do  full 
justice  to  them,  but  let  us  do  no  more. 

Mr.  BALCOMBE.  In  looking  over  the 
Constitutions  of  the  various  States,  I  find 
in  the  Wisconsin  Constitution  almost  the  iden- 
tical language  of  the  amendment  offered  by 
the  gentleman  from  Dakota  (Mr.  Foster),  as 
a  substitute  for  the  original  section.  The 
Wisconsin  provision  is  as  follows : 

"  Every  male  person  of  the  age  of  twenty-ono 
years  or  upwards,  belonging  to  either  the  follow- 
ing classes,  who  shall  have  resided  in  the  State 
for  one  year,  next  preceding  any  election,  shall 
be  deemed  a  qualified  elector  at  such  election : 

"First— White  citizens  of  the  United  States. 

"  Second— White  persons  of  foreign  birth  who 
shall  have  declared  their  intention  to  become  citi- 
zens conformably  to  the  laws  of  the  United  States 
on  the  subject  of  naturalization : 


"Third-Persons  of  Indian  blood,  who  have  once 
been  declared  by  law  of  Congress  to  be  citizens 
of  the  United  States,  any  subsequent  law  of  Con- 
gress to  the  contrary  uotwithstanding : 

"  Fourth — Civilized  persons  of  Indian  descent, 
not  members  of  any  tribe. 

^'Provided,  That  the  Legislature  may  at  any 
time  extend  by  law  the  right  of  suffrage  to  per- 
sons not  herein  enumerated ;  but  no  such  law 
shall  be  in  force  until  the  same  shall  have  been 
submitted  to  a  vote  of  the  people  at  a  general 
election  and  approved  by  a  majority  of  all  the 
votes  cast  at  such  election." 

The  third  clause  which  I  have  read  is  left 
out  of  the  gentleman's  amendment. 

Mr.  FOSTER.  That  was  designed  to  meet 
a  peculiar  local  matter  in  Wisconsin. 

Mr.  BALCOMBE.  The  persons  mentioned 
in  the  fourth  clause — civilized  persons  of 
Indian  descent — should,  in  my  opinion,  have 
the  right  to  vote.  There  are  many  of  them, 
in  the  Territory,  and  quite  a  nmnber  of  them 
living  in  my  own  district,  who  are  property 
holders,  who  are  able  to  read  and  write,  and 
are  capable,  perhaps,  of  understanding  all 
questions  over  which  the  two  parties  are  at 
variance,  full  as  well  as  a  large  number  of 
American  citizens.  I  am  very  much  inclined 
— though  I  do  not  intend  to  make  a  long  argu- 
ment upon  the  question — to  give  them  the 
privilege  of  voting. 

Again,  I  am  inclined  to  give  persons  of 
foreign  birth  the  right  to  vote  if  they  have 
been  in  the  Territory  six  months,  and  are 
over  the  age  of  twenty-one  years,  and  have 
declared  their  intention  to  become  citizens. 
There  is  a  large  class  of  foreign  persons, 
Scotch,  English,  Irish,  Germans,  and  others 
who,  after  having  been  m  this  Territory  six 
months,  are  quite  as  well  qualified  to  vote  as 
a  large  number  of  our  own  citizens  of  Ameri- 
can birth. 

Now  if  you  are  going  to  establish  a 
rule,  why  not  establish  a  universal  rule 
which  will  apply  to  all  cases?  If  you 
are  going  to  lay  down  the  principle  that 
a  man  must  have  a  certain  amount  of  knowl- 
edge relative  to  the  questions  before  the  peo- 
ple, before  he  is  qualified  to  vote,  why  not 
make  it  applicable  to  American  citizens  as 
well  as  to  foreign  born  citizens?  Why  not 
say  to  American  citizens — for  we  have  many 
of  them  who  can  neither  read  or  WTitc,  and 
who  know  nothing  more  about  the  political 
I  institutions  of  the  country  than  foreignerg 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Ththsdat,   August  6. 


347 


just  come  across  the  waters — that  they  shall 
not  have  the  privilege  of  voting  unless  they 
have  such  qualifications  ?  I  am  disposed  to 
give  foreigners  who  have  been  within  the  Ter- 
ritory sis  months  the  right  to  vote.  I  see 
nothing  to  be  lost  by  it,  and  nothing  to  be 
gained  by  refusing  them  the  privilege.  They 
are  property  holders,  and  pay  taxes;  and  why 
should  they  not  have  the  privilege  of  voting  ? 

I  am  in  favor  of  the  substitute  again,  for 
the  reason  that  I  prefer  the  phraseology.  I 
think  that  the  same  subject  matter  is  expresed 
in  a  shorter  and  more  explicit  manner  than 
in  the  section  reported  by  the  committee. 

Mr.  MURPHY.  I  hope  the  substitute  will 
not  be  adopted  without  the  amendment.  I 
come  here  representing  a  great  many  foreign- 
ers— being  about  half  foreigner  myself — and 
it  is  singular  to  me  that  the  gentleman  from 
Winona  should  state  that  the  foreigner  who 
has  lived  here  but  six  months  is  just  as  well 
qualified  to  vote,  as  a  native  bom  American 
citizen.  My  father  lived  in  America  five  years 
before  he  was  allowed  to  vote,  and  then  he 
had  to  show  his  full  papers  of  naturalization. 
Now,  it  seems  to  me,  that  we  are  getting  along 
pretty  fast.  A  year  or  two  ago  foreigners 
had  to  be  in  the  Territory  two  years  before 
they  could  vote ;  and  now  we  desire  to  put  it 
into  the  Constitution  that  they  shall  have  the 
right  to  vote  after  a  six  month's  residence. 
That  would  not  suit  the  foreigner  himself. 
You  might  as  well  say  that  a  boy  sixteen 
years  old  is  as  well  qualified  to  vote  as  he  is 
at  twenty-one.  A  boy  of  that  age  is  as  well 
qualified  as  a  foreigner,  and  a  good  deal  bet- 
ter, because  he  has  lived  here  sixteen  years  ; 
and  when  he  is  ten  years  of  age  he  learns 
more  in  a  year  of  our  institutions,  than  a  for- 
eigner will  in  five.  I  hope  the  amendment 
of  the  gentleman  from  Minneapolis  (Mr.  Mob- 
gan)  will  be  adopted,  or  that  we  shall  let  the 
section  remain  as  it  is. 

Mr.  WILSON.  One  remark  further  in 
reply  to  my  colleague  (Mr.  Balcombe)  who 
spoke  after  me.  He  says  this  amendment  is 
nearly  word  for  word  like  the  Wisconsin  pro- 
vision. Well  it  is  nearly  in  every  respect  ex- 
cept one,  and  in  that  one  respect  there  is  a 
difference ;  that  difference  amounts  to  the 
whole  thing.  The  time  of  residence  in  Wis- 
consin is  just  double — one  year.  And  that 
is  the  best  and  almost  the  only  example  he 


can  quote.  I  have  taken  some  pains  to  look 
at  the  different  Constitutions.  Indiana  makes 
one  years  residence  necessary.  The  Consti- 
tution of  Illinois  makes  citizens  of  foreigners 
who  resided  in  the  State  at  the  time  of  the  adop- 
tion of  the  Constitution.  The  Constitution  of 
Michigan  has  a  provision  not  as  favorable  to  for- 
eigners as  we  propose  ;  and  California  a  great 
deal  worse  than  ours.  We  as  a  Territory, 
stand  better  in  that  respect,  than  any  Dem- 
ocratic State  that  ever  came  into  the  Union. 
We  are  taking  the  lead  in  this  matter. 

And  as  to  these  Irish  votes  I  claim  to  know 
something  about  them,  and  I  know  that  the 
foreigners  do  not  wish  the  right  of  suffrage 
extended  to  them  as  soon  as  is  proposed  in 
the  amendment.  I  say  to  the  gentleman  from 
Hennepin  (Mr.  MrRPHv)  that  many  of  our 
foreigners,  as  soon  as  they  arrive  in  the  United 
States  are  as  well  qualified  to  vote  as  the 
citizens  of  the  United  States,  because  many 
of  them  are  highly  educated  and  highly  in- 
telligent men.  But  that  does  not  change  the 
reason  for  the  general  rule. 

As  to  these  half-breeds,  I  would  extend  to 
all  of  them  the  right  of  suffrage,  but  I  am  op- 
posed to  the  grand  frauds  which  have  been 
perpetrated  under  color  of  that  right.  And 
therefore  to  adopt  this  amendment  as  it  is, 
would  subject  us  to  those  frauds  again.  This 
putting  a  coat  upon  one  Indian,  and  when  he 
has  voted,  stripping  it  off  and  putting  it  on 
another,  and  thus  running  them  up  to  the 
polls  by  hundreds,  I  protest  against,  and  we 
should  have  same  provision  to  protect  us 
against  it.  I  know  some  half-breeds  I  would 
vote  for  as  soon  as  for  any  man  I  know. 
They  are  high-minded  men ;  but  I  would 
throw  a  guard  around  the  right  so  that  it  can- 
not be  abused.    ■ 

Mr.  CLEGHORN.  As  a  foreigner  I  wish 
to  say  that  I  fully  endorse  the  ground  taken 
by  the  gentleman  firom  Winona  (Mr.  Wilsox). 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  hope  the  substitute  will 
not  be  adopted  unless  the  amendment  is  at- 
tached to  it.  I  think  this  matter  of  residence 
should  be  looked  to  particularly.  I  am  in 
favor  of  allowing  foreigners  every  right  and 
privilege  they  can  consistently  claim,  or  that 
would  be  safe  for  us  to  give.  Although  I  am 
willing  to  acknowledge  the  truth  of  what  the 
gentleman  from  Winona  (Mr.  Wilsox)  has 
said — that  many  foreigners  come  here'as  well 


348 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Thuesday,  August  6. 


qualified  to  vote  when  they  first  came  into 
the  country  as  many  of  our  own  citizens,  I 
do  not  acknowledge  that  that  is  the  general 
rule ;  and  I  think  no  one  will  attempt  to 
maintain  it  as  the  general  rule.  As  a  gene- 
ral rule  foreigners  who  come  into  our  country, 
are  not  acquainted  with  the  principles  of  our 
government,  nor  with  the  practical  workings 
and  operation  of  them.  Many  of  them  are 
men  of  intelligence  and  education,  but  their 
attention  has  never  been  called  directly  to  the 
principles  of  our  government  so  as  to  enable 
them  to  understand  it;  and  certainly  their 
attention  has  not  been  called  to  the  practical 
working  of  those  principles  in  their  minutia. 
The  great  dificulty  with  foreigners  when  they 
come  here,  is,  that  they  find  two  or  three  po- 
litical parties,  each  one  claiming  to  be  the 
true  representative  of  the  principles  of  our 
government,  and  each  one  claiming  to  be  the 
friend  of  that  system  which  works  best  in 
practice.  Before  he  can  vote  intelligently  he 
has  to  investigate  the  theories  of  these  various 
parties.  Very  few  foreigners  have  the  oppor- 
tunity to  do  that  before  they  come  to  this 
country.  They  may  have  heard  of  the  par- 
ties, but  they  have  not  become  familiar  with 
their  principles  nor  with  the  practical  work- 
ing of  their  theories. 

Now  I  believe  that  two  years  is  a  short 
time  enough  for  the  mass  of  foreigners  to  be- 
come familiar  with  all  these  things ;  and,  as 
the  gentleman  from  Winona  has  said,  the 
honest  and  intelligent  portion  of  them  do  not 
ask  the  right  to  vote  in  a  shorter  space  of 
time  than  that.  If  you  allow  them  to  vote  in 
six  months,  and  before  they  become  familiar 
with  all  these  facts,  they  are  beset  on  every 
hand  by  politicians,  who  perplex  their  minds 
and  confuse  their  ideas,  and  they  know  not 
how  to  act.  Require  of  them  a  residence  of 
two  years,  and  they  have  time  to  make  up 
their  minds  without  being  beset  by  politicians 
who  crowd  their  peculiar  views  upon  them. 
I  certainly  hope  the  amendment  to  the  sub- 
stitute will  bo  adopted. 

Mr.  COGGS\vi:LL.  I  have  a  substitute 
which  I  wish  to  offer  for  the  whole  report. 

Mr,  BALCOMBE.  I  rise  to  a  point  of 
order.  The  committee  having  under  consid- 
eration the  first  section,  a  substitute  was 
ofi*ered  for  it,  and  then  an  amendment  to  the 
substitute.    Now  I  raise  the  point  that  a 


substitute  for  the  whole  report  cannot  b 
offered  until  the  amendment  is  disposed  of. 

The  CHAIRMAN.  The  Chair  thinks  the 
question  of  order  well  taken. 

The  amendment  to  the  substitute  was  then 
agreed  to. 

Mr.  McKUNE.  I  move  to  strike  out  the 
last  clause  of  the  substitute,  referring  to  civi- 
lized persons  of  Indian  descent,  and  insert 
the  following : 

"  All  persons  of  mixed  Indian  blood,  or  full 
blood  Indians,  who  shall  have  declared  their  inten- 
tions to  become  dissevered  from  all  Indian  tribes, 
and  to  become  a  citizen  of  the  United  States,  who 
can  read,  write  and  speak  the  English  language, 
and  shall  have  resided  within  this  State  five  years, 
such  residence  dating  from  the  time  of  filing  their 
intentions  to  become  a  citizen,  and  such  facts  being 
prf>ved,  the  supreme  court  shall  grant  a  certificate 
of  citizenship ;  and  the  supreme  court  shall  be  the 
only  court  competent  to  grant  such  certificate,  or 
to  judge  of  the  qualifications  of  persons  applying 
for  citizenship.  The  first  Legislature  at  their  first 
session  after  the  census  of  eighteen  hundred  and 
sixty,  shall  establish  by  law  the  qualification  of 
voters,  the  basis  of  which  shall  be  education ;  and 
no  other  qualification  shall  be  required  except  such 
as  is  required  by  the  laws  of  the  United  States,  or 
this  Constitution." 

Mr.  SECOMBE  caUed  for  a  division  of  the 
motion  to  strike  out  and  insert. 

The  question  was  taken  on  the  motion  to 
strike  out,  and  the  Chair  announced  that  it 
was  decided  in  the  affirmative,  by  a  vote  of 
fourteen  to  thirteen ;  when  the  objection  was 
made  that  no  quorum  voted. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  hope  the  motion  will 
not  prevail. 

Mr.  WILSON.  I  rise  to  a  question  of 
order.  The  vote  has  been  declared,  and  is 
there  any  way  of  getting  at  that  question 
again,  except  by  a  motion  t<> reconsider? 

The  CHAIRMAN.  ^The  Chair  did  not 
decide  it  positively. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  The  qucsUon  is  raised 
whether  there  is  a  quorum  present,  I  move 
that  the  committee  rise. 

The  motion  was  not  agreed  to. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  voted  with  the  majority, 
and  I  move  to  reconsider  the  vote  by  which 
the  committee  agreed  to  strike  out  the  third 
subdivision  of  the  substitute. 

Mr.  NORTH.  The  gentleman  voted  against 
striking  out. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  The  gentleman  is  mis- 
taken. 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Thtjksday,  August  6. 


349 


Mr.  HARDING.  There  is  another  diffi- 
culty. There  are  some  here  who  contend  that 
as  a  majority  of  a  quorum  did  not  vote  in 
fevor  of  striking  out,  the  motion  was  lost. 
In  that  view  I  hardly  know  how  we  shall  get 
at  the  question  again. 

Mr.  WILSON.     I  rise  to  a  pomt  of  order. 
Mr.  BALCOMBE.     The  gentleman's  point 
of  order  is  out  of  order,  because — 

Mr.  WILSON.  The  gentleman  forgets 
himself.  He  thinks  he  is  in  the  chair  now, 
when  in  fact  somebody  else  is.  I  believe 
Jefferson's  Manual  is  our  guide  where  the 
rules  do  not  apply.  That  Manual  says  a 
committee  of  the  Whole  cannot  reconsider 
its  own  vote,  and  if  we  cannot,  the  sooner  we 
stop  this  matter  the  better. 

The  CHAIRMAN.  The  Chair  thinks  the 
gentleman  is  out  of  order,  as  the  committee 
was  dividing  on  the  question  when  he  ad- 
dressed the  Chair  as  to  his  point  of  order. 

The  question  was  then  taken  on  the  motion 
to  reconsider,  and  it  was  crrried. 

Mr.  WILSON.  Would  it  be  in  order  to 
raise  the  point  of  order  now,  that  the  recon- 
sideration is  out  of  order,  and  therefore 
amounts  to  nothing  ? 

Mr.  NORTH.  It  would  seem  that  the 
gentleman  is  too  late  with  his  point  of  order. 
It  should  have  been  raised  before  the  thing 
was  done  to  which  he  objects.  It  is  out  of 
order  to  raise  a  point  of  order  upon  a  thing 
past. 

The  CHAIRMAN.  The  Chair  thinks  it  is 
out  of  order. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  I  move  that  the  com- 
mittee rise. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to,  and  thereupon 
the  committee  rose  and  reported  progress  and 
asked  leave  to  sit  again. 
Leave  was  granted. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  Rule]  seven  of  this 
Convention  provides  that  no  member  shall 
speak  more  than  twice  on  the  same  question, 
nor  more  than  fifteen  minutes  at  any  one  time 
without  leave  of  this  Convention,  nor  more 
than  ohce  imtil  every  member  who  chooses  to 
speak  shall  have  spoken.  Now  I  wish  to 
have  this  report  considered  in  Convention, 
and  not  in  committee  hereafter,  and  I  there- 
fore move  that  rule  number  seven  be  suspen- 
ded, so  fiir  as  the  consideration  of  this  report 
is  concerned. 


Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  would  enquire  of  the 
Chair  what  order  of  business  we  are  under  ? 

The  CHAIRMAN.  The  last  order— the 
general  orders  of  the  day. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  Is  the  gentleman' s  motion 
in  order. 

The  CHAIRMAN.  After  the  committee 
of  the  Whole  have  had  a  bill  under  considera- 
tion, and  reported  back  to  the  Convention,  it 
is  then  in  order  for  the  Convention  to  consider 
that  bin,  and  amend  or  debate  it. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  would  enquire  if  it  is 
in  order  to  move  to  go  into  committee  upon  the 
same  bill  agam. 

The  CHAIRMAN.  It  would  be,  but  it 
would  not  take  precedence  of  the  other 
motion. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  The  object  of  my  mo- 
tion is  that  members  may  be  allowed  the 
same  latitude  of  debate  in  Convention  on 
this  report,  that  they  would  have  in  committee 
of  the  Whole.  And  by  being  in  Conventipn 
we  can  compel  every  member  to  vote  upon 
the  amendments,  and  thereby  avoid  the  diffi- 
culty we  met  with  a  short  time  since. 

The  question  was  taken,  and  the  motion 
was  agreed  to. 

And  then,  on  motion  of  Mr.  DAVIS,  (at 
twelve  o'clock)  the  Convention  took  a  recess 
until  half-past  two. 

AFTERNOON  SESSION. 

The  Convention  was  called  to  order  at  half- 
past  two  o'clock. 

BIGHT   OF  SUFFRAQS. 

The  PRESIDENT  stated  that  when  the 
Convention  took  a  recess,  it  had  under  con- 
sideration .  the  report  of  the  committee  upon 
the  Elective  Franchise,  which  had  been  re- 
ported back  fi"om  the  committee  of  the 
Whole  without  amendment,  and  that  amend-, 
ments  thereto  were  in  order. 

Mr.  NORTH  moved  to  amend  the  same  by 
striking  out  the  word  "  white  "  firom  the  first 
line,  which  reads  as  follows :  "  Every  'white' 
"male  inhabitant  of  the  age  of  twenty-one 
"  years  and  upwards ,"  &c. 

Mr.  NORTH  said — I  desire,  Mr.  Pbesident 
to  make  a  few  remarks  upon  the  amendment 
vl  have  ofi'ered  before  the  question  is  taken 
upon  it.  When  the  committee  on  the  Elec- 
tive Franchise  made  their  report,  as  a  mem- 
ber of  the  committee  I  concurred  in  the  report, 


850 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Thursday,  August  6. 


except  that  I  was  opposed  to  inserting  the 
word  "  white ; "  and  I  then  stated  that  when 
the  report  should  come  up  for  consideration  I 
would  give  my  views  upon  it.  This  I  now 
propose  to  do,  though  I  am  conscious,  from 
my  limited  preparation,  that  I  must  do  it 
very  imperfectly.  My  first  reason,  and  one 
which,  to  the  mind,  of  every  honest  and  up- 
right man,  I  think  must  be  the  strongest,  is, 
that  it  is  wrong  to  insert  that  word  here.  I 
look  upon  it  as  an  absolute  -wrong,  which  we, 
as  a  Convention,  have  no  right  to  inflict  upon 
any  class  of  our  fellow  men.  For  myself,  I 
know  of  no  principle  on  which  our  own  rights 
are  based  that  does  not  guarantee  to  every 
other  class  of  human  beings  the  same  rights 
which  we  claim  for  ourselves.  If  there  are 
exceptions  to  this  rule — particular  circum- 
stances must  make  those  exceptions — those 
exceptions  cannot  and  do  not  exist  in  the 
nature  of  things  as  established  by  the  Crea- 
tor. The  contour  of  the  countenance,  the 
complexion  of  the  face  which  the  Creator  has 
stamped  on  human  beings,  does  not  give  one 
class  the  right  to  inflict  wrong  and  injury  upon 
another.  It  does  not  give  us  the  right  to  say 
that  we  have  rights  which  are  natural  and 
inalienable,  and  to  another  class,  "  you  are 
deprived  of  those  rights."  The  claims  of 
equal  and  impartial  justice  are  the  highest 
claims  that  one  class  of  men  can  make  to  an- 
other, and  they  are  claims  which  should  be 
regarded  in  a  legislative  body,  a  Constitu- 
tional Convention,  or  any  assemblage  of  men 
where  laws  are  to  be  established.  The  prin- 
ciples of  natural  justice  should  be  first  and 
above  all  regarded.  I  believe  it  is  a  principle 
upon  which  all  writers  on  elementary  law 
agree ;  that  any  enactment  by  a  legislative 
body  that  contravenes  natural  justice,  does 
not  rise  to  the  dignity  of  law ;  that  it  is  not 
law,  but  an  abuse  of  the  prerogative  of  the 
law  maker.  If  then  natural  justice  is  to  be 
regarded  in  that  high  sense,  can  we  avoid  the 
consideration  of  this  principle  when  we  come 
to  make  a  Constitution,  which  is  more  perma- 
nent than  any  other  kind  of  law  ? 

I  know  there  are  those  who  would  cast 
aside  all  principles  of  higher  law,  that  should 
govern  men  in  making  legal  enactments,  but 
I  believe,  here,  again,  all  writers  agree  that 
human  law  is  based  upon  divine  law,  and 
that  any  human  law  that  contravenes  divine 


law  and  absolutely  requires  a  violation  of  it, 
is  not  binding  upon  the  conscience  of  man. 
All  law  writers  agree  that  there  is  a  standard 
of  right  eternally  fixed,  by  which  all  law  and 
law  makers  are  to  be  tested.  If  it  is  not  so, 
how  could  we  determine  whether  a  law  is  a 
good  or  a  bad  one  ?  how  determine  whether 
this  or  that  Constitution  is  a  good  or  a  bad 
one  ?  Washmgton  in  his  address  to  his  coun- 
trymen, at  the  close  of  his  Presidential  career, 
endeavored  to  impress  upon  their  minds  the 
intimate  connection  which  exists  between 
duty  and  advantage.  It  is  an  idea  which  I 
have  thought  we  lose  sight  of  frequently  in 
attempting]  to  establish  constitutional  provis- 
ions or  legal  enactments.  The  intimate  and 
inseparable  connection,  the  indissoluble  tie 
that  binds  duty  and  advantage  together,  also 
connects  evil  with  the  violation  of  duty,  and 
we  cannot,  with  impunity,  violate  the  laws  of 
the  Creator,  which  are  as  eternal  as  his  na- 
ture, without  in  some  manner  suffering  the 
penalty  of  their  violation.  We  know  per- 
fectly well  that  if  we  violate  a  physical  law, 
we  suffer  the  penalty  of  physical  injury ;  if 
we  violate  a  mentjil  law  of  our  being,  our 
mental  faculties  suffer  the  penalty ;  if  we  vio- 
late a  moral  law,  our  moral  being  suffers. 
These  laws  are  fixed  and  immutable,  and 
Chancellor  Kent  says  "  the  same  moral  prin- 
"  ciple  that  governs  individuals  goverjis  States 
"  and  nations,  and  they  are  to  be  governed  by 
"  the  same  standard  of  right,  nothing  more 
"  nor  less."  Then  I  say,  that  when  we  come 
to  the  question  of  law  making,  there  is  a 
standard  of  right  which  we  cannot  with  im- 
punity disregard,  and  as  I  before  stated, 
there  is  no  principle  on  which  we  can  base 
our  [rights,  that  does  not  give  the  same  right 
to  our  neighbor. 

It  is  a  fact  which  some  of  us  may  have 
overlooked,  that  in  the  bills  of  rights  which 
existed  before  the  revolution,  emanating 
from  EngUshmen,  whether  in  England  or 
in  the  colonies,  they  confined  themselves  to 
the  specification  of  rights  properly  belong- 
ing to  Englishmen.  But  when  the  philoso- 
phers of  the  revolution  were  called  upon  to 
base  themselves  upon  principles  which 
would  justify  their  action,  they  made  a  plat- 
form, as  broad  as  the  whole  human  family. 
They  did  not  confine  themselves  to  English- 
men, to  Frenchmen,  to  Germans,  or  to  Amer- 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Thubsday,  August  «. 


S51 


icans,  but  they  took  the  position  that  "all  1 
"  men  are  created  equal,  and  are  endowed  by 
"  their  Creator  with  certain  inalienable  rights." 
Now  upon  this  principle,  I  say  we  should 
harmonize  our  laws  and  Constitution.  This 
is  the  platform  upon  which  we  stand,  and  if 
we  depart  from  it,  there  is  no  principle  we 
can  depend  upon  for  a  moment,  by  which  to 
vindicate  our  own  rights  should  any  attempt 
to  take  them  from  us  by  the  hand  of  power, 
as  we,  by  inserting  the  word  "  white,"  in  this 
Constitution,  would  take  from  a  large  portion 
of  our  fellow  citizens  the  rights  we  claim  for 
ourselves. 

No  person  will  undertake  to  claim  that  the 
mere  temporary  condition  of  men,  is  a  safe 
criterion  by  which  to  judge  of  their  rights. 
Our  ancestors,  if  we  trace  them  back  to  Eng- 
land, will  exhibit  a  most  miserable  condition, 
in  theu-  early  history.  A  large  portion  of  the 
ancient  Britons  were  held  in  servitude  and 
vassalage,  and  were  far  more  degraded  than  a 
large  share  of  the  colored  population  of  our 
country  to-day.  A  degradation  which  would 
stamp  them  in  the  minds  of  the  present  gen- 
eration as  altogether  imfit  to  be  associated 
with  the  people  of  the  present  day.  I  say 
then  that  the  temporary  condition  of  a  people 
is  an  uncertain  and  unsafe  standard  by  which 
to  judge,  of  what  is  right.  We  are  taught  in 
scripture  that  God  created  all  men  of  one 
blood,  and  the  Golden  rule  has  taught  us  that 
we  should  do  unto  others  as  we  would  that 
others  should  do  unto  us. 

And  it  is  no  more  plainly  taught  in  scrip- 
tiu*e,  than  it  is  by  our  own  standard  law  in 
this  country — the  platform  which  our  fathers 
laid  down  for  us,  that  all  men  are  created 
equal.  That  noble  sentiment  in  the  Declara- 
tion of  Independence,  was  at  a  subsequent 
time  embodied  in  the  Constitutions  of  all  the 
thirteen  original  States,  and  that  fact  shows 
that  they  regarded  this  principle  as  something 
more  than  a  mere  rhetorical  flourish — some- 
thing more  than  a  general  expression  of  an 
abstract  truth, — as  a  practical  truth  which 
was  not  only  to  be  made  practical  in  the 
freedom  of  the  individual,  but  practical  by  al- 
lowing liim  to  have  that  voice  in  the  govern- 
ment of  the  country,  which  protects  him  in 
that  right  and  in  the  enjoyment  of  his  firee- 
dom. 

Experience  too,  teaches  this  lesson  as  plain- 


ly as  it  is  taught  in  scripture,  and  in  our  stan- 
dard law.  Turn  our  eyes  upon  any  country 
upon  the  face  of  the  earth,  which  violates  this 
principle,  and  we  find  that  it  is  suffering  from 
that  violation.  Do  we  look  at  the  despotisms 
of  the  East  ?  We  find  that  they  are  suffer- 
ing to-day,  as  they  have  suffered  for  centu- 
ries, from  a  violation  of  every  principle  of 
natxiral  right  and  justice.  Look  at  our  own 
covmtry  even,  and  compare  those  States  of 
the  Union,  where  men  have  been  deprived  of 
all  their  rights,  with  those  States  where  men 
have  been  guaranteed  all  their  rights.  Draw 
a  contrast  between  the  New  England  States, 
and  the  States  of  the  Soutli  where  men  are 
robbed  of  their  rights  to  the  greatest  extreme, 
and  how  does  that  contrast  appear?  The 
one,  in  all  the  characteristics  of  good  society 
have  risen  to  eminence  and  have  become  the 
admiration  of  the  civilized  world,  while  the 
others  are  despised  and  scorned  by  the  nations 
of  the  earth,  and  even  by  their  own  citizens. 
It  seems  to  me  that  this  lesson  is  taught  so 
plainly  everywhere  that  it  should  not  escape 
ovu"  observation,  when  we  come  to  construct 
political  institutions. 

I  am  also  opposed  to  the  insertion  of  the 
word  "white"  for  the  reason  that  it  is  incon- 
sistent with  the  genius  of  our  institutions. 
And  here  I  shall  have  to  refer  to  the  Declara- 
tion of  Independence,  which  some  gentlemen 
seem  to  think  does  not  mean  anything  as  con- 
nected with  the  right  of  suffrage.  It  asserts 
the  broad  principle  of  equality  of  rights — of 
the  black  man's  rights  as  truly  and  as  clearly 
as  the  white  man's  rights.  If  it  is  claimed  by 
white  men  that  the  Declaration  means  them 
alone,  judging  from  the  language  of  that  in- 
strimient,  it  could  be  claimed  with  equal  fair- 
ness by  black  men  that  it  meant  them  alone, 
for  the  language  of  the  instrmnent  is  as  broad 
to  cover  the  one  as  the  other. 

I  am  not  one  of  those  who  believe  that  an 
instrument  is  to  be  interpreted  in  any  other 
way  than  by  the  plain  common  sense  mean- 
ing of  its  language.  The  people  of  that  time, 
I  believe,  knew  enough  to  enunciate  princi- 
ples in  plain  language,  capable  of  being  im- 
derstood  by  their  countrymen  then  and  now 

In  the  Constitution  of  the  United  States, 
which  was  adopted  soon  after  the  the  Declar- 
ation of  Independence,  we  see  the  same  prin- 
ciple carried  out.    There  is  not  a  word  or  syl- 


352 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Thuesdat,  August  7. 


able  in  that  instrument  discriminating  be- 
tween diflferent  classes  of  men  on  account  of 
their  complexion.  That  was  carefully  kept 
out.  There  is  not  a  word  to  intimate  diflfer- 
ent conditions  of  men.  The  words  "  slave,'' 
"  slavery,"  "  servitude,"  and  the  word 
"  white  "  are  all  excluded  from  that  noble  in- 
strument, issuing  from  that  noble  body  of  men 
whom  the  North  will  ever  have  occasion  to 
honor  and  revere  for  the  stand  they  took  at 
that  time  in  laying  the  foundation  of  our  polit 
ical  institutions. 

It  is  remarkable  not  only  that  the  Consti- 
tution of  the  United  States  carefully  avoided 
making  any  distinction  on  account  of  color, 
but  the  Constitution  of  every  one  of  the  origina* 
thirteen  States  were  clear  of  any  such  distinc- 
tion, even  including  the  State  of  South  Carolina. 
In  1776,  even  she  had  a  Constitution  which 
had  not  the  word  "white,"  but  in  1778,  they 
inserted  that  word.  In  my  hand  I  hold  a  book 
of  Constitutions,  published  in  1797.  In  the 
biUs  of  rights  and  the  elective  franchise  clauses 
of  these  Constitutions,  I  find  embodied  the 
principles  of  the  men  of  those  times,  and  they 
show  that  they  regarded  that  Declaration  of 
Independence  as  sometliing  more  than  a  mere 
abstraction,  and  that  they  deemed  it  right  to 
give  to  colored  men,  with  white  men,  the  right 
to  vote  as  well  as  the  right  to  be  free,  and 
that  they  regarded  the  one  as  inseparable  from 
the  other. 

In  the  Constitution  of  New  Hampshire,  I 
find  the  following  language : 

"All  men  are  born  equally  free  and  indepen- 
dent ;  therefore  all  government  of  right  originates 
from  the  people,  is  founded  in  consent  and  institu- 
ted for  the  general  good. 

"  All  men  have  certain  natural,  essential  and  in- 
herent rights,  among  which  are  the  enjoying  and 
defending  life  and  liberty,  acquiring,  possessing 
and  protecting  property,  and  in  a  word  of  seeking 
»nd  obtaining  happiness." 

And  in  the  elective  franchise  clause  I  find 
the  following : 

"  Every  male  inhabitant  of  each  town,  and  par- 
ish with  town  privileges,  and  places  unincorpora- 
ted in  this  State,  of  twenty-one  years  of  age  and 
upwards,  excepting  paupers  and  persons  excluded 
from  paying  taxes  at  their  own  request,  shall  have 
a  right  at  the  annual  or  other  meetings  of  the  in- 
habitants of  said  town  and  parishes,  to  be  duly 
named  and  holden  annually  forever  in  the  month 
oT  March,  to  vote  in  the  town  or  parish  wherein 
he  dwells,  for  a  Senator  ifi  the  district  whereof  he 
s  a  member." 


And  the  same  qualifications  are  further  ex- 
ended  to  election  of  all  ofiicers. 

I  find  in  the  Constitution  of  Massachusetts, 
a  bill  of  rights  more  complete  than  that  of 
any  other  State — a  bill  of  rights  drafted  by 
John  Adams,  who,  perhaps,  bore  as  impor- 
tant a  part  in  the  revolution  as  any  other  man 
in  the  Union.     It  commences, 

"  All  men  are  born  free  and  equal,  and  have  cer- 
tain natural,  essential  and  unalienable  rights; 
among  which  may  be  recorded  the  right  of  enjoy- 
ing and  defending  their  lives  and  liberties ;  that  of 
acquiring,  possessing  and  defending  property ;  in 
fine,  that  of  seeking  and  obtaining  their  safety  and 
happiness." 

In  the  Elective  Franchise  clause  the  princi- 
ple is  carried  out  strictly.  They  did  not  put 
the  word  "  white"  in  the  Elective  Franchise 
clause  and  leave  it  out  of  the  Bill  of  Rights, 
as  it  is  proposed  to  do  here.  I  read  from 
that  clause : 

"  At  such  meeting  every  male  inhabitant,  having 
a  freehold  estate  within  the  commonwealth,  of  the 
annual  income  of  three  pounds,  or  any  estate  of 
the  value  of  fifty  pounds,  shall  have  a  right  to  give 
in  his  vote  for  the  Senators  of  the  district  of  which 
he  is  an  inhabitant.  And  to  remove  all  doubt  con- 
cerning the  word  'inhabitant,'  in  this  Constitu- 
tion, every  person  shall  be  considered  as  an  inhab- 
itant (for  the  purpose  of  electing  and  being  elected 
into  any  office  or  place  within  the  State,)  in  that 
town,  district  or  plantation  where  he  dwelieth  or 
hath  his  home." 

A  number  of  States  at  that  time  had  a 
clause  requiring  the  possession  of  some  pro- 
perty in  order  to  qualify  a  man  for  voting,  but 
no  clause  making  any  distinction  on  account 
of  color. 

In  the  Constitution  of  New  York,  adopted 
in  1777,  the  following  provision  is  found  in  the 
elective  franchise  clause : 

"That  every  male  inhabitant  of  full  age  who 
shall  have  personally  resided  in  one  of  the  coun- 
ties of  this  State  for  six  months  immediately  pre- 
ceding the  day  of  election,  shall,  at  such  election, 
be  entitled  to  vote  for  representatives  of  the  said 
county  in  assembly  ;  if,  during  the  time  aforesaid, 
he  shall  have  been  a  freeholder,  possessing  a  free- 
hold of  the  value  of  twenty  pounds  within  the  said 
county,  or  have  rented  a  tenement  therein  of  the 
yearly  value  of  forty  shillings,  and  have  rated  and 
actually  paid  taxes  to  this  State." 

'■^  Every  male  inlutbitanV — language  as 
broad  as  it  could  be.  I  find  the  same  in 
Pennsylvania ;  and  when  I  come  tP  the  little 
State  of  Delaware,  I  find  a  noble  sentiment, 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Thubsdat,  August  6. 


353 


more  fully  expressed  than  in  any  other  Con- 
stitution I  have  seen,  viz  : 

"  That  the  right  in  the  people  to  participate  in 
the  Legislature  is  the  foundation  of  liberty  and  of 
all  free  governments ;  and  for  this  end  all  elections 
ought  to  h&frei.  ^aifrequent ;  and  every  free  man, 
having  sufficient  evidence  of  a  permanent  common 
interest  with  and  attachment  to  the  commonify, 
hath  a  right  of  suffrage." 

I  should  rejoice  if  there  were  virtue  enough 
in  the  Territory  of  Minnesota  to  incorporate 
such  a  provision  as  that  into  our  Constitution. 
The  sentiment  is  a  noble  and  a  true  one,  say- 
ing what  every  man  knows  and  recognizes  to 
be  true,  so  far  as  it  relates  to  himself — and  it 
is  true  alike  of  others — that  the  right  in  the 
people  to  participate  in  the  Legislature,  to 
have  a  voice  in  making  the  laws  by  which 
they  are  governed,  is  the  foimdationof  liberty 
and  of  all  free  governments,  and  that  for  that 
end  all  elections  oug^t  to  be  '■'■free  andfre- 
quent." 

I  find  the  same  general  provision  in  Vir- 
ginia, Maryland,  North  Carolina,  South  Caro- 
lina and  Georgia,  but  I  will  not  take  up  the 
time  of  the  Convention  by  reading  them. 
All  the  Constitutions  in  this  volume  are  free 
from  any  distinction  on  account  of  color,  ex- 
cept that  of  South  Carolina.  And  even  their 
first  Constitution  was  right  in  this  particular. 

The  fact  is  one  which  ought  to  be  borne  in 
mind  by  every  American  citizen,  that  our 
fathers  of  revolutionary  memory  had  the  vir- 
tue to  stand  up  frankly  and  boldly  like  men, 
and  to  carry  out  their  principles.  They  did 
not  care  for  the  peculiar  circimastances  in 
which  they  were  placed.  They  discovered  a 
grand  and  noble  truth  as  a  platform  upon 
which  they  could  base  themselves,  and  when 
charged  with  inconsistency,  they  had,  like 
Patrick  Henry,  the  nobleness  to  say  that  they 
would  "  so  far  pay  their  devoir  to  virtue  as  to 
"  own  the  excellence  and  rectitude  of  fier  pre- 
••  cepts,  and  to  lament  their  own  want  of  con- 
"  formity  to  them." 

To  prove  this  still  further,  I  ask  the  atten- 
tion of  the  Convention  to  a  passage  from  Pat- 
rick Henry  to  which  I  have  just  alluded.  He 
says: 

"  Is  it  not  surprising  that  at  a  time  when  th« 
rights  of  humanity  are  defined  with  precision  in  a 
country  above  all  others  fond  of  liberty — that  in 
such  an  age  and  in  such  a  country  we  find  men, 
professing  a  religion  the  most  humane  and  gentle, 
adopting  a  principle  as  repugnant  to  humanity  as 


it  is  inconsistent  with  the  Bible  and  destructive  to 
liberty?  Believe  me,  I  honor  the  Quakers  for 
their  noble  efforts  to  abolish  slavery.  Every 
thinking,  honest  man  rejects  it  in  speculation ; 
yet  how  few  in  practice  from  conscientious  mo- 
tives. Would  any  man  believe  that  I  am  master 
of  slaves  of  my  own  purchase  ?  I  am  drawn  along 
by  the  general  inconvenience  of  living  without 
them.  I  will  not,  I  cannot  justify  it.  For  however 
culpable  my  conduct,  I  will  so  far  pay  my  devoir 
to  virtue  as  to  own  the  excellence  and  rectitude  of 
her  precepts,  and  to  lament  my  own  conformity  to 
them." 

That  was  noble  in  a  man,  if  he  had  not  the 
courage  to  come  up  to  his  own  standard  of 
right,  he  had  not  the  meanness  to  try  to  ex- 
cuse himself  by  saying  that  it  was  right  for 
him  to  do  otherwise.  And  Franklin,  who  was 
a  member  of  the  Convention  that  issued  the 
Declaration  of  Independence,  and  also  a  mem- 
ber of  the  Convention  that  framed  the  Con- 
stitution, subsequently  presented  a  petition  to 
Congress  in  which  his  views  upon  the  subject 
of  slavery  and  also  of  human  equality — 
which  is  applicable  to  this  very  question  be- 
fore us — was  set  forth  more  fully  and  in  a 
briefer  form  than  I  have  been  able  to  find 
elsewhere.  I  wiU  read  a  part  of  that  memo- 
rial which  was  presented  to  Congress,  signed 
by  him  in  his  oflScial  capacity  as  President  of 
the  Pennsylvania  Abolition  Society  : 

"  That  mankind  are  all  formed  by  the  same  Al- 
mighty Being,  alike  objects  of  his  care  and  equally 
designed  for  the  enjoyment  of  happiness,  the 
Christian  religion  teaches  us  to  believe ;  and  the 
poUtical  creed  of  Americans  fully  coincides  with 
the  position.  Tour  memorialists,  particularly  en- 
gaged in  attending  to  the  distresses  arising  from 
slavery  believe  it  to  be  their  indUpensabU  dvty  to 
present  this  subject  to  your  notice.  They  have 
observed  with  real  satisfaction  that  many  impor 
tant  and  salutary  powers  are  vested  in  you ;  for 
promoting  the  welfare  and  securing  the  blessings 
of  liberty  to  the  people  of  the  United  States,  and 
as  they  conceive  that  these  blessings  ought  right- 
fully to  be  administered,  without  distinction  of  col- 
or, to  all  description  of  people,  so  they  indulge 
themselves  in  the  pleasing  expectation  that  noth- 
ing which  can  be  done  for  the  relief  of  the  un- 
happy objects  of  their  care  will  be  either  omitted 
or  delayed. 

"  From  a  persuasion  that  equal  liberty  was  ori- 
ginally the  position  and  is  still  the  birthright  of 
all  men;" 

'  Equal  liberty,  the  birthright  of  all  men  P 
— there  are  some  at  the  present  day  who 
would  have  that  Uberty  unequal,  which  Frank- 
lin here  says  is  the  birthright  of  aU  men. 


8S4 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Thursday,  August  6. 


"  And  influenced  by  the  strong  ties  of  humanity 
and  the  principles  of  their  institution  your  memo- 
rialists conceive  themselves  bound  to  use  all  justi- 
fiable endeavors  to  loosen  the  bonds  of  slavery, 
and  promote  a  general  enjoyment  of  the  blessing 
of  freedom.  Under  these  impressions  they  ear- 
nestly entreat  your  serious  attention  to  the  subject 
of  slavery ;  that  you  will  be  pleased  to  counte- 
nance the  restoration  of  liberty  to  those  unhappy 
men,  who  alone,  in  this  land  of  freedom,  are  de- 
graded into  perpetual  bondage,  and  who,  amidst 
the  general  joy  of  surrounding  freedom  are  groan- 
ing in  servile  subjection ;  that  you  vnll  promote 
justice  and  mercy  towards  this  distressed  race,  and 
that  you  will  step  to  the  very  verge  of  the  powers 
vested  in  you  for  discouraging  every  species  of 
traffic  in  the  persons  of  your  fellow  men." 

So  general  was  the  feeling  at  that  time  on 
the  subject  of  the  wrongs  done  to  that  class 
of  human  beings  held  in  bondage,  that  Jef- 
erson  used  his  utmost  exertions  to  influence 
gentlemen  in  England  to  come  over  to  Amer- 
ica to  labor  for  the  removal  of  that  black 
stain  upon  the  body  politic.  He  wrote  a  very 
distinguished  gentleman  of  London,  Dr.  Price, 
upon  the  subject,  and  I  will  only  read  one  sen- 
tence to  show  what  Jefferson  thought  of  the 
general  views  of  the  people  on  that  subject. 
In  his  letter  to  Dr.  Price  he  says : — 

"Northward  of  the  Chesapeake,  you  may  find 
here  and  there  an  opponent  to  your  doctrine,  as 
you  may  find,  here  and  there,  a  robber  and  a  mur- 
derer, but  in  no  great  number." 

Speaking  upon  the  sulgect  of  legislation  he 
says : — 

"  And  witili  what  execration  should  the  states- 
man be  loaded,  who,  permitting  one  half  of  the 
citizens,  thus  to  trample  on  the  rights  of  the 
other." 

— It  seems  that  Jefferson  regarded  even  the 
slaves  as  citizens. — 

"  Thus  to  trample  on  the  rights  of  the  other, 
transforms  those  into  despots  and  these  into  ene- 
mies—destroys the  morals  of  the  one  part  and  the 
anuyr  patriae  of  the  other.  For  if  a  slave  can 
have  a  country  in  this  world,  it  must  be  any  other 
in  preference  to  that  in  which  he  is  bom  to  live 
and  labor  for  another,  &c." 

There  is  an  idea  which  it  would  be  well  for 
every  citizen  to  reflect  upon,  that  just  as  far 
as  we  do  wrong  to  any  class  of  our  citizens  we 
compel  them  to  be  enemies  instead  of  friends. 
They  may  not  be  driven  to  be  enemies  com- 
pletely, but  such  a  course  is  not  calculated  to 
produce  attachment  to  institutions  which  are 
designed  to  crush  them. 

I  am  also  opposed  to  the  insertion  of  the 


word  "  white"  for  the  reason  that  the  colored 
men  of  the  United  States  have  done  their  full 
share  towards  securing  our  liberties.  They 
have  helped  to  fight  our  battles  and  win  our 
victories.  As  evidence  upon  this  point,  I  will 
read  a  few  extracts  from  an  authentic  work 
upon  tliis  subject,  in  which  is  enumerated  some 
particular  instances  in  which  colored  patriots 
of  the  revolution  sacrified  their  lives  in  fight- 
ing those  battles  by  which  we  gained  those 
blessings  which  we  now  enjoy.  It  is  a  fact 
which  we  ought  to  remember,  that  the  first 
man  that  fell  in  the  battle  of  the  revolution  in 
Boston  was  a  colored  man.  Botta,  in  his  his- 
tory, speaking  of  the  scenes  of  the  fifth  of 
March  says : 

"The  people  were  greatly  exasperated.  The 
multitute  ran  towards  King  street,  crying  '  Let  us 
drive  out  these  ribalds  ;  they  have  no  btisiness  here.' 

"The rioters  rushed  furiously  towards  the  Cus- 
tom House ;  they  approached  the  sentinel,  crying 
'  MU  him,  kill  Mm!'  They  assaulted  him  with 
snow  balls,  pieces  of  ice,  and  whatever  they  could 
lay  their  hands  upon.  Tlie  guard  were  then  called, 
and  in  marching  to  the  Custom  House,  they  en- 
countered a  band  of  populace,  led  by  a  mulatto 
named  Attucks,  who  brandished  their  clubs,  and 
pelted  them  with  snow  balls.  The  maledictions, 
the  imprecations,  the  execrations  of  the  multitude, 
were  horrible.  In  the  midst  of  a  torrent  of  in- 
vective from  every  quarter,  the  military  were  chal- 
lenged to  fire.  The  populace  advanced  to  the 
points  of  their  bayonets.  The  soldiers  appeared 
like  statues ;  the  cries,  the  bowlings,  the  menaces, 
the  violent  din  of  bells  still  sounding  the  alarm, 
increased  the  confusion  and  the  horror  of  these 
moments ;  at  length  the  mulatto  and  twelve  of  his 
companions,  pressing  forward,  environed  the  sol- 
diers, and  striking  their  muskets  with  their  clubs, 
cried  to  the  multitude  '  be  not  afraid,  they  dare 
not  fire ;  why  do  you  hesitate,  why  do  you  not  kill 
them,  why  not  crush  them  at  once  ?'  The  mulatto 
lifted  his  arm  against  Capt.  Prescott,  and  having 
turned  one  of  the  muskets,  he  seized  the  bayonet 
with  his  left  hand,  as  if  ho  intended  to  execute 
his  threat.  At  this  moment  confused  cries  were 
heard,  '  the  wr itches  dare  not  jire'  Firing  suc- 
ceeds. Attucks  is  slain.  The  other  discharges 
follow.  Three  were  killed,  five  severely  wounded, 
and  others  slightly." 

John  Adams,  counsel  for  the  soldiers  ad- 
mitted that  Attucks  appeared  to  have  under- 
taken to  be  the  hero  of  the  night,  and  to  lead 
the  people. 

At  Bunker  Hijl,  the  laan  wljo  shot  Major 
Pitcairn  was  a  colored  man.  Sweet,  in  lijs 
sketches  of  the  Bunker  Hill  battle  says : 

"Major  Fitooini  caused  the  firit  efi^ioa  of 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Thursdat.  August  6. 


m 


blood  at  Lexington.  In  that  battle  his  horse  wag 
shot  under  him,  while  he  was  separated  from  hiS 
troops.  With  presence  of  mind,  he  feigned  him- 
self slain ;  his  pistols  were  taken  from  his  holsters 
and  he  was  left  for  dead,  when  he  seized  the  op- 
portunity and  escaped.  He  appeared  at  Bunker 
Hill,  and  sayest  the  historian,  among  those  who 
mounted  the  works  was  the  gallant  Major  Pitcaim, 
who  exaltantly  cried  out  "  the  day  is  ours,"  when 
a  black  soldier  named  Salem'shot  him  through  and 
he  fell.  His  agonized  son  received  him  in  his 
arms,  and  tenderly  bore  him  to  the  boats.  A  con- 
tribution was  made  in  the  army  for  the  colored 
soldier,  and  he  was  presented  to  Washington  as 
haTing  performed  this  feat." 

In  order  to  confirm  this  statement,  I  will 
read  an  extract  from  the  address  of  the  Hon. 
Edwabd  Evebett,  oh  the  occasion  of  the 
erection  of  the  Warren  monimient  to  com- 
memorate the  heroes  of  that  battle.  Mr. 
Everett  says : 

"  It  is  the  monument  of  the  day  of  the  event 
of  the  battle  of  Bunker  Hill ;  of  all  the  brave  men 
who  shared  its  perils— alike;of  Prescott,  and  Put- 
nam, and  Warren — the  chiefs  of  the  day,  and  the 
colored  man  Salem,  who  is  reported  to  have  shot 
the  gallant  Pitcairn  as  he  mounted  the  parapet. 
Cold  as  the  clods  on  which  it  reats ;  still  as  the 
silent  Heaven  to  which  it  soars,  it  is  yet  vocal, 
eloquent,  in  their  undivided  praise:  Till  the  pon- 
derous and  well  compacted  blotks  of  granite  which 
no  force  but  that  of  an  earthquake  will  heave  from 
•their  bearings,  shall  fall  asunder,  it  will  stand  to 
the  most  distant  posterity,  a  grand,  impartial  illus- 
tration (nature's  own  massive  lithography)  of  the 
noble  page,  second  to  no  other  in  the  annals  of 
America,  on  which  ;history  shall  write  down  the 
names  and  the  deeds  of  the  seventeenth  of  June, 
1775." 

That  monument  commemorates  thie  deeds 
of  colored  men  as  well  as  white  men,  and  it 
is  refreshing  in  these  days  of  forgetfiihiess  of 
such  services  to  find  now  and  then  a  gem 
like  that  from  such  a  man  as  Everett,  recall- 
ing to  mind  the  fact  that  we  are  indebted 
somewhat  to  adored  men  for  the  hberties  we 
enjoy. 

During  the  revolution  it^was  determinedby 
the  Legislature  of  Khode  Island,  to  raise  a 
colored  regiment,  asxA.  here  is  the  whole  bill, 
covering  two  pages,  providing  iSw  their  enlist- 
ment as  soldiers. 

Massachusetts  did  the  same  thing,  and 
General  "Wilson,  in  the  Massachusetts  Con- 
stitutional Convention,  alludes  to  it  in  the  fol- 
lowing language. 

"  The  first  victim  of  the  Boston  massacre,  on 
the  fifth  of  March,  1770,  which  made  the  fires  of 


resistance  bum  more  intensely,  was  a  colored 
man.  Hundreds  of  colored  men  entered  the  ranks 
and  fought  bravely  on  all  the  fields  of  the  revolu- 
tion. Graydon,  of  Pennsylvania,  in  his  memoirs, 
informs  us  that  many  of  the  southern  officers  dis- 
liked the  Xew  England  regiments  because  so  many 
colored  men  were  in  their  ranks. ,  When  the 
country  has  required  their  blood  in  the  days  of 
trial  and  conflict,  they  have  given  it  freely  and  we 
have  accepted  it ;  but  in  times  of  peace,  when  their 
blood  is  not  needed,  we  shun  and  trample  them 
under  foot.  I  have  no  part  in  this  great  wrong 
to  a  race.  Wherever,  and  whenever  we  have  the 
power  to  do  it,  I  would  give  to  all  men,  of  every 
clime  and  race,  of  every  faith  and  creed,  freedom 
and  equality  before  the  law.  My  voice  and  my 
vote  shall  ever  be  given  for  the  equality  of  all  the 
children  of  men,  before  the  laws  of  the  common- 
wealth of  Massachusetts  and  the  United  States." 

That  sentiment  I  fully  endorse.  During 
the  revolutionary  war,  after  a  protracted  con- 
test had  rendered  it  difiBcult  to  procure  re- 
cruits for  the  army,  the  colony  of  Connecti- 
cut adopted  the  expedient  of  forming  a  corps 
of  colored  soldiers : 

"  A  battallion  of  the  blacks  was  soon  enlisted, 
and  throughout  the  war  conducted  themselves 
with  fidelity,  and  efficiency.  iTie  late  General 
Humphreys,  then  a  captain,  commanded  a  com- 
pany of  this  corps.  It  is  said  that  some  objections 
were  made  on  the  part  of  officers  to  accepting  the 
command  of  colored  troops.  In  this  exigency. 
Captain  Humphreys,  who  was  attached  to  the  fam- 
ily of  Gen.  Washington,  volunteered  his  services. 
His  patriotism  was  rewarded,  and  his  fellow  ofll- 
cers  were  afterwards  as  desirous  to  obtain  appoint- 
ments in  that  corps  as  they  had  previously  been 
to  avoid  them." 

During  the  same  war  the  Legislature  of 
New  York  passed  an  act  granting  freedom  to 
all  slaves  who  served  in  the  army  three  years 
and  were  regularly  discharged.  Mr.  Mar- 
TisDALE,  of  New  York,  said  in  Congress,  on 
the  twenfy-secolid  day  of  January,  1828 : 

"Slaves,  or  negroes  who  had  been  slaves,  were 
enlisted  as  soldiers  in  the  war  of  the  revolution ; 
I  myself  saw  a  battalion  of  them,  as  fine  martial 
looking  men  as  I  ever  saw,  attached  to  the  north- 
ern army,  in  the  last  war,  on  its  march  from  Platts- 
burgto  Sackett's  Harbor." 

Among  other  reminiscences  connected  with 
the  revolution,  the  celebrated  Mr.  Fort  en, 
who  had  been  himself  a  soldier  in  the  revolu- 
tion for  a  long  time  and  a  prisoner  on  the  old 
Jersey  prison  ship,  often  alluded  to  the  part 
taken  by  colored  men  in  the  war.     Says  he : 

"  Saw  the  regiments  from  Rhode  Island,  Con- 
necticnt  and  Hassacbusetto  when  ther  mardied 


358 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Thubsdat,  August  6. 


through  Philadelphia  to  meet  Cornwallis,  who 
was  then  overninning  the  South,  and  said  that 
one  or  two  companies  of  colored  men  were  at- 
tached to  each.  The  vessels  of  war  of  that  period 
were  all  to  a  greater  or  less  extent,  manned  by 
colored  seamen.  On  board  the  Royal  Louis,  on 
which  Mr.  Forten  enlisted,  there  were  twenty  col- 
ored seamen ;  the  Alliance,  of  thirty-six  guns, 
Commodore  Barry ;  the  Trumbull,  of  thirty-two 
guns.  Captain  Nicholson,  and  the  ships  South, 
Carolina,  Confederacy,  and  Randolph,  were  all 
manned  in  part,  by  colored  men." 

Captain  Sealer,  of  the  brig,  Governor 
Tompkins,  who  had  some  remarkable  ad- 
ventures in  the  late  war,  speaks  of  two  col- 
ored men  of  that  crew  in  the  following  lan- 
guage: 

"  The  name  of  one  of  my  poor  fellows  who  was 
killed  ought  to  be  registered  in  the  books  of  fame, 
and  remembered  with  reverence  as  long  as  bra- 
very is  considered  a  virtue.  He  was  a  black  man 
by  the  name  of  John  Johnson.  A  twenty-four 
pound  shot  struck  him  in  the  hip  and  took  away 
all  the  lower  part  of  his  body.  In  this  state  the 
poor  brave  fellow  lay  on  the  deck,  and  several 
times  exclaimed  to  his  shipmates,  fire  a/way  my 
boys! — not  haul  a  color  down!  " 

"  The  other  was  also  a  black  man  by  the  name 
of  John  Davis,  and  was  struck  in  much  the  same 
way.  He  fell  near  me,  and  several  times  requested 
to  be  thrown  overboard,  saying,  Tie  was  only  in  the 
way  of  others.  While  America  has  such  tars,  she 
has  little  to  fear  from  the  tyrants  of  Europe." 

The  celebrated  Charles  Pinckney,  Esq.,  of 
South  Carolina,  in  his  speech  on  the  Missouri 
question,  and  in  defence  of  the  slave  repre- 
sentation of  the  South,  made  the  following 
admissions : 

"At  the  commencement  of  our  revolutionary 
•truggle  with  Great  Britain,  all  the  States  had 
this  class  of  people.  The  New  England  States  had 
numbers  of  them ;  the  Northern  and  Middle  States 
had  still  more,  although  less  than  the  Southern. 
They  all  entered  into  the  great  contest  with  similar 
views.  Like  brethren  they  contended  for  the 
benefit  of  the  whole,  leaving  to  each  the  right  to 
pursue  its  happiness  in  its  own  way.  Thus  they 
nobly  toiled  and  bled  together,  really  like  brethren. 
And  it  is  a  remarkable  fact,  that  notwithstanding, 
in  the  course  of  the  Revolution,  the  Southern 
States  were  continually  overrun  by  the  British, 
and  every  negro  in  them  had  an  opportunity  of 
running  away,  yet  few  did.  They  then  were,  as 
they  still  are,  as  valuable  a  part  of  our  population 
to  the  Union,  as  any  other  equal  number  of  inhab- 
itants. They  were,  in  numerous  instances,  the 
prisoners,  and  in  all,  the  laborers  of  your  armies. 
To  their  hands  were  owing  the  erection  of  the 
greatest  part  of  the  fortifications  raised  for  the 
protection  of  our  country.    Fort  Moultrie  gave,  at 


aa  early  period  of  the  inexperience  and  untried 
valor  of  our  citizens,  immortality  to  American 
arms.  And  in  the  Northern  States  numerous 
bodies  of  them  were  enrolled  and  fought  side  by 
side  with  the  whites  the  battles  of  the  Revolution." 

After  the  famous  battle  of  New  Orleans, 
which  gained  so  much  renown  to  General 
Jackson,  it  is  well  known  that  we  called  upon 
the  colored  men  to  engage  in  that  fight.  In 
his  call  upon  them,  he  used  the  following 
language  in  his  proclamation  from  his  head- 
quarters at  Mobile : 

"  Through  a  mistaken  policy,  you  have  hereto- 
fore been  deprived  of  a  participation  in  the  glori- 
ous struggle  for  national  rights  in  which  our 
country  is  engaged.  This  no  longer  shall  exist. 
As  sons  oi  freedom  you  are  now  called  upon  to 
defend  our  most  inestimable  blessings.  AsATneri- 
cans,  your  country  looks  with  confidence  to  her 
adopted  citizens  for  a  valorous  support,  as  a 
faithful  return  for  the  advantages  enjoyed  under 
her  mild  and  equitable  government.  As  fathers, 
husbands  and  brothers,  you  are  summoned  to 
rally  around  the  standard  of  the  eagle  to  defend 
all  which  is  dear  in  existence.  *  *  *  * 
To  assure  you  of  the  sincerity  of  my  intentions, 
and  my  anxiety  to  engage  your  invaluable  services 
to  our  country,  I  have  communicated  my  wishes  to 
the  Governor  of  Louisiana,  who  is  fully  informed 
as  to  the  manner  of  enrollments,  and  will  give  you 
every  necessary  information  on  the  subject  of  this 
address." 

From  another  subsequent  proclamation,  I* 
extract  the  following  language  : 

"  SoLDiKRS !— When  on  the  banks  of  the  Mobile 
I  called  you  to  take  up  arms,  inviting  you  to 
partake  the  perils  and  glory  of  yowr  white 
fellow  citizens,  /expected  much  of  you;  for  I  was 
not  ignorant  that  you  possessed  qualities  most 
formidable  to  an  invading  enemy.  I  knew  with 
what  fortitude  you  could  endure  hunger  and  thirst, 
and  all  the  fatigues  of  a  campaign.  /  knew  well 
haw  you  loved  your  native  country,  and  that  you 
as  well  as  ourselves,  had  to  defend  what  man 
holds  most  dear— his  parents,  wife,  children  and 
property.  You  ?iave  done  more  than  I  expected. 
In  addition  to  the  previous  qualities  I  before  knew 
you  to  possess,  I  found  among  you  a  noble  enthu- 
siasm which  leads  to  the  performance  of  great 
things.  Soldiers,  the  President  of  the  United 
States  shall  hear  how  praiseworthy  was  your  con- 
duct in  the  hour  of  danger,  and  the  representatives 
of  the  American  people  will  give  you  the  praise 
your  exploits  entitle  you  to.  Your  General  antici- 
pates them  in  applauding  your  noble  ardor." 

General  Jackson  was  willing  to  admit  that 
this  was  their  native  country,  but  I  notice 
that  when  gentlemen  here  try  to  deprive  them 
of  the  right  of  suffrage,  they  say  that  they 
have  no  business  hero ;   that  this  is  not  their 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Thtbsd at,  August  6. 


357 


country,  and  that  they  should  go  home  where 
they  belong.  Such  vas  not  the  language  of 
General  Jackson  to  the  colored  soldiers  of  the 
war  of  1812. 

Hon.  Robert  C.  Winthrop,  in  his  speech  in 
Congress  in  1850,  on  the  imprisonment  of 
colored  seamen,  bore  this  testimony  to  the 
gallant  conduct  of  the  colored  soldiers  in 
New  Orleans : 

"I  have  an  impression  that,  not  indeed  in  those 
piping  times  of  peace,  but  in  the  time  of  war, 
when  quite  a  boy,  I  have  seen  black  soldiers  en- 
listed who  did  faithful  and  excellent  service. 

"But  however  it  may  have  been  in  the  Jforthem 
States,  I  can  tell  the  Senator  what  happened  in  the 
Southern  States  at  this  period.  I  believe  I  shall 
be  borne  out  in  saying  that  no  regiments  did 
better  service  at  New  Orleans,  than  did  the  black 
regiments,  which  were  organized  under  the  direc- 
tion of  General  Jackson  himself,  after  a  most 
glorious  appeal  to  the  patriotism  and  honor  of  the 
people  of  color  of  that  region,  and  which,  after 
they  came  out  of  the  war,  received  the  thanks  of 
General  Jackson,  in  a  proclamation  which  has 
been  thought  worth  to  be  inscribed  on  the  pages 
of  history." 

From  the  documents  it  appears  that  there 
were  over  four  hundred  "  men  of  color "  in 
that  battle.  But  here  it  is  proper  to  notice 
the  feet  that  Great  Britain  had  her  colored 
soldiers  in  that  battle ;  the  United  States  had 
hers.  Great  Britain's  became  fireemen  and 
citizens  ;  those  of  the  United  States  continued 
only  half  free  and  half  slaves. 

What  a  disgrace  to  our  country  that  Eng- 
land, which  we  call  an  oppressive  government, 
can  do  justice  to  those  who  fight  her  battles, 
while  our  own  country,  claiming  to  be  more 
free,  more  noble  and  wise  than  any  other,  con- 
tinues such  injustice,  not  only  in  the  Southern 
States,  but  here  in  free  States  and  Territories, 
where  we  all  profess  to  believe  that  every 
man  has  an  equal  right  in  the  government. 
What  a  disgrace  that  we  will,  fi^m  mere  tem- 
porary expediency,  rob  men  of  what  we  all 
know  is  their  just  due.  We  ought  to  rise 
above  this  prejudice,  and  for  once  do  that 
justice  which  has  been  so  long  delayed. 

In  view  of  aU  these  circumstances  a  colored 
man  makes  the  following  appeal  to  his 
countr3rmen : 

"  We  are  naivvea  of  this  country ;  we  ask  only  to 
be  treated  as  well  OBforeignerg.  Not  a  few  of  our 
fathers  suffered  and  bled  to  purchase  its  independ- 
ence ;  we  only  ask  to  be  treated  as  well  as  those 
who  fought  against  it.    We  have  toiled  to  cultivate 


it,  and  to  raise  it  to  its  'present  prosperous  condi- 
tion ;  we  only  ask  to  share  equal  privileges  with 
those  who  come  from  distant  lands  to  enjoy  the 
fruits  of  our  labor." 

When  such  an  appeal  is  made  to  us,  can 
any  man  say  that  it  is  not  a  fair  one  ?  one 
which  does  not  commend  itself  to  the  imder- 
standing  and  heart  of  every  American  citi- 
zen ?  When  they  have  fought  our  battles,  is 
it  anything  more  than  fair,  that  they  should 
be  treated  as  well  as  those  who  fought  against 
us  in  that  struggle  ?  And  yet  for  the  sake  of 
obtaining  the  favor  of  that  very  class  of  men 
who  fought  against  us,  and  from  a  fear  of  in- 
curring their  opposition,  gentlemen  will  con- 
sent to  trample  in  the  dust  that  very  class  of 
men  who  stood  by  us  in  the  hour  of  need, 
and  commend  to  our  utmost  favor  that  class 
which  fought  us  to  the  death.  We  ought  at 
least  to  have  the  virtue  to  do  as  much  justice 
to  otir  friends  as  we  have  done  to  our  ene- 
mies. 

If  there  is  anything  on  earth  that  is  per- 
fectly despicable,  it  is  one,  who  having  been 
suddenly  raised  fix)m  a  low  degree,  to  afflu- 
ence and  honor,  forgets  or  scorns  the  friends 
of  former  years,  and  who  were  friends  in  ad- 
versity. There  is  no  one  of  us  but  would 
look  with  utter  contempt  upon  a  character  of 
that  kind.  And  shall  we  try  to  fasten  upon 
this  new  State  the  character  we  would  despise 
in  an  individual  ?  Shall  we  turn  coldly  away 
from  the  demand  of  justice  and  humanity,  and 
from  appeals  which  come  to  us  as  strongly  as 
appeals  can  come  to  the  human  mind  and 
heart,  and  lay  aside  all  considerations  of  jus- 
tice and  compassion,  and  sneakingly  oppress 
those  who  were  our  friends  in  adversity  but 
who  have  been  denied  simple  justice  for  more 
than  eighty  years  that  we  have  existed  as  a 
nation  ?  It  seems  to  me  that  gentlemen 
should  take  these  things  into  consideration 
before  they  insert  the  word  "  white"  in  this 
Constitution,  and  thus  cut  off  the  rights  of 
those  whose  rights  are  equal  in  justice  to  our 
own. 

Again,  I  am  opposed  to  the  insertion  of  the 
word  "  white"  because  it  is  inexpedient  and 
bad  policy  to  put  it  there.  It  is  much  easier 
to  begin  right  and  remain  so,  than  it  is  to  get 
right  after  having  begun  wrong.  We  all  know 
how  hard  it  is  to  correct  abuses  in  govern- 
ment ;  how  diflBcult  to  eradicate  old  evils,  to 
remove  the  prejudices  of  men,  and  the  great 


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MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Thitesday,  August  6. 


reverence  for  precedents.  We  can  look  back 
here  and  see  how  much  we  are  governed  by 
precedents.  If  men  here  can  find  precedents 
in  some  old  Constitutions,  they  rely  upon 
them  as  that  by  which  we  should  be  governed 
in  framing  our  own  Constitution.  Precedents 
have  their  influence  upon  the  human  mind, 
and  I  say  we  are  now  here  making  prece- 
dents. Coming  generations  will  look  back  to 
this  Constitution  as  a  precedent,  and  the  time 
is  coming  when  they  will  say  that  the  men 
who  framed  this  Constitution  did  as  well  as 
they  could  under  the  circumstances,  and  give 
us  quite  as  much  credit  as  we  deserve  for  sin- 
cerity, honesty  and  patriotism  in  framing  this 
instrument.  Do  not  let  us  claim  a  credit 
which  is  not  due,  and  give  them  a  precedent 
which  will  lead  them  astray.  Do  not  let  us 
consent  to  do  what  we  know  is  wrong,  be- 
cause we  think  it  is  the  policy  of  the  hour. 
I  am  opposed,  and  shall  ever  be  opposed  to 
that  kind  of  policy  which  sacrifices  principle 
and  requires  us  to  countenance  injustice'  for 
the  sake  of  mere  temporary  success. 

But  I  do  not  believe  that  success  is  to  be 
gained  by  sacrificing  principle.  By  taking 
that  course  we  are  going  backward  as  a  na- 
tion, while  other  nations  are  going  forward. 

Some  gentlemen  say,  "You  are  right  in 
"  theory.  In  the  abstract  we  will  agree  with 
"  you,  and  all  of  us  will  be  with  you  soon, 
"  but  you  must  not  press  things  too  fast." 
Is  it  going  too  fast  after  the  lapse  of  eighty 
years  to  come  up  to  the  standard,  our  fathers 
marked  out  for  us  ?  Is  it  going  too  fast  if  we 
do  not  go  beyond  a  point  to  which  they  -ivent 
eighty  years  ago  ?  While  the  Eussian  Gov- 
ernment has  set  itself  against  the  extension 
of  serfdom,  and  the  Sultan  of  Turkey,  the 
Bey  of  Algiers  and  of  Tunis,  and  even  the 
King  of  Morocco  have  set  their  faces  against 
slavery  and  are  making  progress  in  favor  of 
the  right  and  of  human  liberty,  what  do  we 
see  in  our  own  country  ?  Republican  Amer- 
ica, claiming  to  be  the  wisest,  the  most  exalt- 
ed, and  ihe  noblest  nation  on  the  face  of  the 
earth,  is  retrograding  from  the  high  standard 
set  up  by  the  fathers,  and  is  fighting  to-day 
for  the  extension  of  human  bondage.  While 
the  monarchies  of  Europe  are  liberalizing 
their  governments  and  increasing  the  guaran- 
tees to  human  liberty,  shall  we  go  backward 
and  endeavor  to  put  on  the  cast-off  barbarism 


of  Eastern  despots,  and  trample  in  the  dust 
our  own  citizens  ?  Here  in  this  Northern 
Territory,  peopled  by  New  England  men  who 
were  brought  up  where  every  man  enjoyed 
his  freedom,  and  educated  under  institutions 
which  gave  to  every  man  equal  rights  in  the 
government  ?  Even  here  in  this  Convention, 
we  are  told  that  we  must  not  come  up  to  the 
standard  which  our  fathers  established  more 
than  eighty  years  ago.  We  should  not  go 
backward;  we  should  hot  retrograde,  but 
should,  at  least,  have  the  virtue  to  come  up 
to  the  mark  our  fathers  set  us,  if  we  cannot 
go  beyond  it.  But  in  this  day  of  light, 
knowledge  and  virtue,  it  is  a  disgrace  to  the 
son  to  hold  that  he  cannot  go  beyond  his  fath- 
er. It  is  a  disgrade  to  any  man  not  to  be 
able  to  improve  upon  the  wisdom  of  the  past. 
We,  as  American  citizens,  successors  of  revo- 
lutionary patriots  should  not  be  content  mere- 
ly to  come  up  to  their  mark.  It  is  a  matter 
of  surprise  that  those  noble  men  accomplished 
so  much  for  hmnanity  in  the  short  time  in 
which  they  labored.  But  they  left  a  work 
for  us  to  accomplish,  and  we  ought  not  to 
prove  recreant  to  the  trust  or  despise  the  ex- 
ample they  set  us.  To  institute  a  mere  tem- 
porary policy,  which  rejects  all  principle,  is 
itself  a  wrong  for  which  future  generations 
must  suffer,  and  for  which  they  w\]l  condemn 
us. 

But  how  does  it  appear  to  the  eyes  of  na- 
tions, that  while  the  governments  and  despot- 
isms of  the  old  world  are  casting  off  their  rel- 
ics of  barbarism  we  are  endeavoring  to  put 
them  on  ?  In  what  light  shall  we  be  viewed 
by  coming  generations  if  this  is  our  position 
and  the  stand  we  are  to  take  ? 

But  there  is  another  thing  which  we  ought 
not  to  overlook,  and  that  is  the  degrading  in- 
fluence which  this  course  will  exert  upon  our 
own  citizens  ?  Our  foreign  population,  igno- 
rant and  degraded,  when  they  come  here — 
(T  speak  of  those  who  are  most  oppressed  in 
their  own  countries,) — stand  at  the  polls,  side 
by  side  with  the  opulent  of  the  land,  and  they 
rise  in  dignity,  manhood  and  respectability, 
because  they  have  a  ballot  to  deposit,  and  a 
voice  in  the  government ;  and  that  ballot 
shields  them  from  wrong.  Men  will  not  tram- 
ple on  them  when  they  remember  that  they 
arc  American  citizens,  possessing  the  right  to 
deposit  a  ballot  in  favor  of  men  who  will  rule 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— *t7Bsday,  ArousT  6. 


359 


over  them,  with  justice.  It  is  an  ennobling 
and  elevating  influence,  and  I  rejoice  that  it  is 
so.  But  I  object  to  those  who  bestow  upon 
our  foreign  citizens  that  right,  turning  round 
and  attempting  to  dispossess  of  those  same 
rights,  men  who  are  native  bom  citizens,  and 
whose  ancestors  fought  the  battles  which  won 
our  liberties. 

The  degrading  influence  it  has  upon  society 
is  enough  to  make  any  man  pause  before  he 
votes  to  consummate  this  great  wrong.  I 
like  the  sentiments  of  Goldsmith  in  his  de- 
serted village,  when  he  says  : 

"111  fares  the  land  to  fostering  ills  a  prey, 
Where  wealth  accumulates  and  men  decay ; 
Princes  and  Lords,  may  flourish  or  may  fade — 
A  breath  can  make  them  as  a  breath  has  made, 
But  a  bold  peasantry,  their  country's  pride, 
When  once  destroyed  can  never  be  supplied." 

Trample  men  to  the  earth,  grind  them 
down,  make  them  lose  their  self-respect,  their 
hopes  and  their  aspirations,  and  you  create  a 
class  in  community  that  clogs  the  body  poli- 
tic. Treat  them  like  men,  and  they  become 
men,  defenders  of  the  country,  and  a  class 
that  materially  assist  in  building  up  every 
useful  institution.  Neither  States  nor  com- 
munities can  sin  with  impimity  in  this  respect, 
and,  as  I  said  before,  every  nation  upon  the 
fiice  of  the  earth,  show  in  its  present  condi- 
tion how  f^r  it  has  sinned  io  that  particular. 

It  is  inexpedient,  too,  in  another  respect.  As 
members  of  the  Convention  we  have  claimed 
to  be  ahead,  somewhat  at  least,  those  who  are 
opposed  to  us  in  political  sentiments.  I  know 
of  no  principle  but  this  that  defines  the  two 
parties  and  places  them  in  a  diiFerent  position 
from  us,  so  far  as  Territorial  and  State  policy 
is  concerned.  Shall  we  for  the  sake  of  the 
present  moment,  lose  sight  of  the  immense 
advantage  we  gain  firom  the  purity  and  exal_ 
tation  of  our  principles  ?  Shall  we  lower  our- 
selves down  to  the  level  of  our  opponents  for 
the  purpose  of  taking  the  wind  from  their 
sails  for  the  moment  ?  If  we  gain  by  it  to- 
day we  lose  by  it  to-morrow.  It  is  the  worst 
policy  we  can  pursue.  If  we  look  at  the  past 
experience  of  pditical  parties  we  are  compell- 
ed to  come  to  that  conclusion.  The  Whig 
party  of  the  past  d^enerated  by  adopting 
this  veiy  policy.  It  was  continually  choosing 
the  least  of  two  evils.  It  died  as  a  partyi 
and  nothing  in  the  world  brou^t  it  to  that 


death  but  the  want  of  a  living  and  vital  prin- 
ciple, which  should  have  governed  them  in. 

stead  of  expediency. 

The  other  party  is  to-day  treading  in  their 
footsteps.  They  are  casting  aside  the  princl 
pies  of  Jefi'erson  and  the  fathers.  They  are 
ignoring  th^  idea  that  there  is  any  higher  law 
than  their  own  corrupt  machinations.  And 
what  is  their  condition  to-day?  They  are 
sinking  as  fast  as  a  political  party  ever  sank. 
The  country  is  spevring  them  out  of  its  mouth 
in  consequence  of  their  rejection  of  princi- 
ple. Let  us  be  warned  by  their  example, 
and  not  do  wrong  in  the  hope  of  a  temporary- 
success. 

But  I  am  further  opposed  to  the  insertion 
of  the  word  "white,"  because  it  makes  us 
simply  ridiculous.  How  are  we  to  determine 
legally  and  constitutionally  who  are  voters, 
imder  such  a  restriction  ?  "What  is  to  be  the 
standard  of  color  ?  There  are  as  many  shades 
of  complexion  as  there  are  difierences  in  the 
contoiu:  of  countenances.  There  are  as  many 
shades  of  color  of  the  hair,  of  the  eyes,  of 
the  skin,  as  there  are  individuals  in  the  world. 
If  we  are  to  have  that  word  inserted,  we 
should  have  some  standard  by  which  to  show 
just  about  how  much  whiteness  we  should 
have,  or  how  much  blackness  we  could  bear, 
so  that  we  may  unerringly  know,  when  a  man 
comes  to  the  polls,  whether  he  can  be  legally 
and  constitutionally  rejected  or  not.  Shall 
we  submit  that  to  the  judges  of  the  election  ? 
I  ask  if  there  is  any  man  in  the  Union  who 
would  not  laugh  at  their  perplexity?  Let 
them  undertake  to  do  it  legally  and  candidly, 
and  their  perplexity  would  make  them  a 
laughing-stock.  We  make  ourselves  ridicu- 
lous when  we  insert  that  word  in  our  Consti- 
tution. One  judge,  of  strong  prejudices,  sees 
a  man  come  up  to  the  polls  to  vote  who  is  as 
white  as  any  man  in  this  Convention,  but  he 
finds  out  he  has  negro  blood  in  his  veins,  and 
he  rejects  him.  Another  judge,  of  less  pre- 
judice, sees  a  man  come  to  the  polls  who  is 
three-quarters  African,  but  has  a  tolerably 
white  complexion,  and  he  passes  his  vote. 
And  so  the  rule  will  vibrate  from  one  extreme 
to  another,  according  to  the  prejudices  of 
men.  The  right  of  a  man  in  this  Government 
to  vote,  ought  not  to  be  dependent  upon 
caprice  and  whim.  It  ought  to  be  placed  upon 
some  mor^pecific,  firm  and  reliable  basis. 


360 


MINNESOTA  CONfENTION  DEBATES— Thtjbsday,  August  6. 


I  am  opposed  to  it  also  because  it  would 
cut  off,  if  it  is  adopted  and  consistently  car- 
ried out — as  it  should  be  if  at  all — some  of 
the  honorable  gentlemen  in  the  other  end  of 
the  Capitol.  Now  I  would  protect  those  men 
in  theu"  rights,  and  whUe  I  would  protect 
them  I  would  not  cut  off  the  rights  of  other 
men  in  this  city  who  are  quite  as  intelligent, 
quite  as  refined  and  as  much  men  in  all  the 
qualities  which  make  the  man. 

Another  thing.  It  does  not  become  men 
to  admit  the  rights  of  the  Indians  and  half- 
breeds  of  this  Territory,  and  at  the  same 
time  despise  the  mixed  blood  of  the  other 
race.  I  hold  that  the  blood  of  the  frst  fam- 
ilies of  Virginia,  running  in  the  veins  of 
mulattoes  is  as  elevating  and  whitening  in  its 
influence  as  the  blood  of  the  Indian  traders, 
whisky  sellers  and  gamblers  running  in  the 
veins  of  the  half-bre«d  Sioux  and  "Winneba- 
goes,  and  quite  as  much  to  be  respected.  I 
am  not  particularly  partial  to  the  blood  of  the 
first  families  of  Virginia,  but  I  am  convinced 
nevertheless,  that  their  blood  running  in  the 
veins  of  the  slaves  is  as  much  to  be  respected 
as  that  of  the  whisky  seller,  Indian  trader  and 
gamblers  in  the  veins  of  half-breeds  of  this 
Territory.  And  I  regret  to  see  gentlemen 
upon  this  floor  discriminate  and  advocate  the 
right  of  the  half-breed  Indians  to  vote,  and 
deny  that  right  to  half-breed  negroes.  The 
one  is  quite  as  honorable  as  the  other. 

With  these  remarks  I  submit  the  question 
hoping  that  we  shall  act  upon  this  subject 
with  candor  and  fairness,  and  not  to  be  car- 
ried away  with  ideas  of  pohcy,  which  govern 
only  for  to-day,  in  making  a  Constitution  for 
years.  I  hope  we  shall  make  such  a  Consti- 
tution as  we  shall  not  look  back  upon  with 
shame  and  self-reproach  in  coming  time. 

The  question  being  on  the  amendment  to 
strike  out  the  word  "  white" — 

Mr.  GALBRAITH  moved  a  call  of  the 
Convention. 

A  call  was  ordered,  and  the  roll  being 
called,  the  following  members  failed  to  answer 
to  their  names : 

Messrs.  Anderson,  Ajer,  Billings,  BoUes,  Coe, 
Coombs,  Hall,  Hudson,  Murphy,  Peckbam,  Rob- 
bins,  Thompson,  Winell,  and  Watson. 

Pending  the  call — 

Mr.  COLBURN  stated  that  Mr.  Billihgs 
was  confined  to  his  room  by  sickness,  and 


that  Mr.  Bolles  had  been  compelled  to  return 
home  on  account  of  sickness  in  his  family. 

Mr.  HARDING  moved  that  all  further  pro- 
ceedings  under  the  call  be  dispensed  with. 

The  motion  was  not  agreed  to. 

Mr.  ALDRICH  stated  that  Mr.  Ayeb  was 
absent  from  the  city. 

The  Sergeant-at-Arms  was  directed  to  re- 
port the  absentees  in  their  seats. 

After  an  interval  of  half  an  hour — 

Mr.  WILSON  moved  to  reconsider  the  vote 
by  which  the  Convention  refused  to  suspend 
further  proceedings  imder  the  call. 

Mr.  FOSTER.  Did  the  gentleman  vote 
with  the  majority. 

Mr.  WILSON.  I  beUeve  I  did,  but  I  do 
not  exactly  recollect. 

Mr.  ALDRICH.  I  voted  with  the  majori- 
ty, and  I  move  to  reconsider. 

•  Mr.  KING.  I  voted  with  the  majority,  and 
I  second  it. 

The  motion  to  reconsider  prevailed,  and 
then  all  further  proceedings  under  the  call 
were  dispensed  with. 

Mr.  WILSON.  As  a  member  of  the  com- 
mittee which  reported  this  article,  I  deem  it 
proper  that  the  Convention  should  under- 
stand just  how  this  matter  stands.  It  is 
agreed  and  understood  by  the  majority  of  the 
committee,  that  if  the  word  "  white"  is  left 
in  the  Constitution,  there  shall  be  a  separate 
article  drawn  up  and  inserted  in  the  schedule, 
or  made  a  distinct  proposition — for  this  is  not 
the  proper  place  for  it — submitting  this  ques- 
tion to  a  direct  vote  of  the  people,  at  the  same 
election  at  which  the  people  vote  on  this  Con- 
stitution. I,  myself,  am  in  favor  of  lea'^ing 
the  word  "  white"  in  the  Constitution,  and, 
so  far  as  I  know,  all  the  members  of  the  com- 
mittee, with  the  exception  of  the  gentleman 
from  Rice  county,  (Mr.  North,)  are  in  favor 
of  the  same  thing.  If  the  word  "  white"  is 
taken  out,  stDl  the  section  will  read  correctly 
without  any  further  alterations  to  correspond. 
The  section  was  drawn  with  special  reference  to 
that  possible  action  of  the  Convention.  With 
the  understanding  I  have  mentioned,  I  shall 
vote  against  striking  out  the  word  "  white." 

We  are  framing  a  Constitution  for  the 
whole  State.  We  are  not  framing  a  Repub- 
lican or  a  Democratic  Constitution.  And  if 
we  were  framing  a  Constitution  for  the  Re- 
publicans, I  am  not  aware  that  it  is  any  part 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Thtbsdat,  Acgcst  6. 


361 


of  the  Republican  creed  to  admit  negroes  to 
an  equal  right  of  suffrage ;  nor  do  I  wish  to 
inaugurate  any  such  system  until  I  know  the 
wishes  of  the  people  in  that  respect.  They 
have  not  expressed  themselves  upon  the  sub- 
ject. I  am  in  favor  of  submitting  the  ques- 
tion to  them,  and  if  they  say,  strike  out  the 
word  "  white,"  I  bow  respectfully  to  their 
judgment ;  and  if  they  say  retain  it,  I  say 
"amen"  to  that.  I  do  think  it  would  be 
wrong,  on  a  question  like  this,  where  no  party 
has  taken  a  stand  upon  it,  to  depart  from  the 
ordinary  course.  The  people's  attention  has 
not  been  called  to  the  subject.  The  practice 
hitherto  in  this  Territory,  has  been  to  allow 
no  negro  to  vote,  nor  any  person  tainted  with 
negro  blood.  I  think  the  fair  way  is  to  leave 
this  matter  as  it  stands.  The  people  have  not 
demanded  a  change  from  us.  Leave  it  as  it 
is,  and  submit  a  fair  proposition  to  the  people, 
whether  or  not  they  wish  a  change.  "VYhat 
more  should  any  one  ask  ? 

I  thought  explanation  thus  far  necessary  as 
to  the  intention  of  the  committee. 

Mr.  NORTH.  If  it  should  be  stricken  out, 
the  question  could  just  as  easDy  be  submitted 
to  the  people,  to  have  them  determine  whether 
they  would  have  it  inserted.  I  think  that 
would  make  the  Constitution  in  harmony  with 
the  views  of  a  large  majority  of  this  Conven- 
tion— a  body  which  is  almost  entirely,  upon 
principle,  in  favor  of  leaving  it  out,  but  upon 
policy,  of  keeping  it  in.  Do  not  let  us  insert 
a  word  into  the  Constitution,  and  then  go  be- 
fore the  people  and  say,  "  We  want  you  to 
"  strike  it  out  for  us.  "We  have  acted  against 
*'  our  own  convictions  of  right,  and  we  want 
"  you  to  help  us  out  of  the  difficulty." 

And  here  allow  me  to  say,  that  a  large 
number  of  the  best  Republicans  of  the  Terri- 
tory, feel  upon  this  matter  very  deeply,  and 
many  of  them  say  they  cannot  support  a 
Constitution  which  thus  violates  their  princi- 
ples. Men  have  this  matter  at  heart.  They 
insist  that  the  word  shall  be  left  out,  and  that 
we  shall  give  the  people  the  right  to  say 
whether  it  shall  be  inserted  or  not.  Then 
they  will  be  with  us ;  otherwise  they  cannot  be. 

Mr.  "WILSON.  I  protest  against  any  gen- 
tleman saying  that  a  large  majority  of  this 
Convention  are  acting  upon  this  subject  con- 
trary to  their  conscientious  convictions  and 
feelings,  out  of  motives  of  policy. 
46 


Mr.  NORTH.  A  vote  of  this  body  was 
taken — to  be  sure  not  in  the  Convention — and 
there  were  not  to  exceed  six  of  this  entire 
Convention  but  would  vote,  when  it  came  in 
question  at  the  polls,  in  favor  of  striking  out 
this  word  "  white." 

Mr.  KEMP.  Was  that  recorded  on  the  re- 
cord ? 

Mr.  WILSON.  Not  at  all ;  and  I  do  not 
know  of  any  such  action  of  this  Convention. 

Mr.  NORTH.  Not  in  Convention.  I  ex- 
press the  sentiments  made  by  the  members 
of  this  body,  in  caucus. 

Mr.  WILSON.  If  that  be  an  argument 
for  members  of  this  Convention,  it  is  a  spe- 
cies of  argument,  of  the  propriety  and  strength 
of  which  I  know  nothing.  If  it  be  advanced 
for  the  purpose  of  driving  in  anybody  to  vote 
for  the  gentleman's  motion,  I  would  like  to 
know  it.  I  suspected  such  a  thing  at  the 
time,  and  some  gentleman  declared  that  the 
vote  was  taken  at  that  caucus  for  such  a  pur- 
pose. I  protested  against  any  such  vote. 
Many  gentlemen  voted  to  satisfy  that  gentle- 
man, and  now  it  is  brought  up  here — a  vote 
which  the  Convention  knows  nothing  of.  I 
protest  against  it. 

Another  idea;  the  course  we  are  taking 
to  leave  the  word  in,  and  leaving  the  peo- 
ple to  strike  it  out,  is  according  to  custom, 
and  I  think  it  is  wise,  before  we  change  that 
custom,  to  ask  the  people  whether  they  want 
a  change,  rather  than  first  say  that  we  will 
change  this  thing  for  them,  and  if  they  do  not 
like  it,  let  them  change  it  back.  Ours  is  the 
correct  and  philosophic  mode. 

Mr.  McCLURE.  Mr.  Pbesident.  I  hope 
our  fi-iends  will  not  become  excited  on  the 
subject,  but  keep  cool.  I  am  unable  to  see 
how  a  great  principle  is  to  be  sacrificed  either 
by  allowing  this  word  to  remain,  or  by  strik- 
ing it  out  since  the  people  have  to  vote  upon 
the  matter.  As  far  as  I  am  concerned,  I 
shall  vote  here  for  leaving  it  in,  and  I  don't 
know  that  it's  any  gentleman's  business  how 
I  shall  vote  on  it  at  the  polls.  We  are  now 
forming  a  Constitution,  and  I  believe  it  is 
agreed  on  all  sides,  that  this  matter  shall  be 
left  for  the  people  to  decide  at  the  time  of  the 
adoptipn  of  the  Constitution ;  and  for  the  life 
of  me,  I  cannot  see  the  importance  of  this 
question  here. 

Gentlemen  on, both  sides,  talk  about  the 


S62 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Thuesdat,  August  6. 


sacrifice  of  principle :  but  I  cannot  understand 
how  I  would  sacrifice  my  principles  by  voting 
either  way ;  for  the  simple  reason,  that  the 
proposition  is  to  go  to  the  people.  But  if,  af- 
ter the  submission  of  the  question  to  the  peo- 
ple, I  should  vote  against  my  sense  of  right, 
as  a  matter  of  policy  I  should  sacrifice  a 
principle.  As  far  as  the  Republican  party  is 
concerned,  this  question  never  was  a  plank  in 
our  Platform — never  was  thought  of— never 
was  attempted  to  be  put  in.  I  presume  every 
member  knows  that.  Republicans  may  be 
in  favor  of  striking  tliis  word  out,  and  nobody 
blames  them ;  and  then  again,  a  great  many 
may  be  opposed  to  striking  it  out,  and  nobody 
accuses  them  of  dissenting  from  the  party 
for  such  views.  Therefore  I  can  see  no  occa- 
sion, certainly,  for  getting  excited  on  this 
question.  So  far  as  I  am  concerned,  I  keep 
cool,  and  when  I  come  to  the  polls  to  vote  I 
shall  vote  as  I  please.  The  whole  contro- 
versy is,  shall  we  leave  the  woi'd  out,  and  let 
the  people  put  it  in  ?  or,  shall  we  leave  it  in, 
and  let  the  people  strike  it  out  ?  It  is  merely 
a  matter  to  go  to  the  people ;  and  I  say  again, 
for  the  life  of  me,  I  cannot  see  any  great 
difference  whether  it  be  in  or  out. 

Mr.  BALCOMBE.  [Mr.  Stannakd  being 
in  the  Chair.]  The  gentleman  from  Goodhue 
(Mr.  McClube)  has  made  much  the  same 
remark  I  intended  to  make,  which  of  course 
leaves  no  necessity  for  repeating  it;  and  I 
should  not  rise  now,  if  it  had  not  been  alleged 
that  we  have  had  an  expresion  in  favor  of 
this  amendment.  There  was,  at  one  time 
here,  a  consultation  to  get  at  an  expression 
of  the  feeling  of  our  friends  upon  this  partic- 
ular subject.  It  was  also  then  thrown  out, 
that  there  might  be  an  ulterior  object  in  view, 
in  attempting  at  that  time,  to  get  an  express- 
ion on  the  subject.  I  denied  it  at  the  time, 
and  I  d«ny  it  now.  There  was  no  expression 
given ;  at  least,  it  was  no  part  of  my  inten- 
tion. I  had  no  such  idea ;  and  I  wish  to  di- 
vest myself  entirely  of  blame  in  the  matter. 
The  gentleman  who  has  alluded  to  the  matter 
has  done  so  upon  his  own  responsibility. 

While  I  am  up,  I  will  notice  one  remark 
which  the  gentleman  made  in  his  speech.  He 
stated,  that  the  only  distinctive  difference 
between  the  two  parties,  in  this  Territory, 
was  on  this  question  of  negro  suffrage.  Now, 
sir,  I  deny  that  .that  is  the  difference.    I 


deny  that  the  Republican  party,  as  a  party, 
have  adopted  equality  of  suffrage  as  a  plank 
in  the  platform  of  the  party.  I  deny  it, 
knowing  what  I  say,  sir,  it  has  been  my  pol- 
icy, and  I  believe  it  has  been  the  policy  of  a 
majority  of  the  members  of  this  Convention, 
to  keep  the  distinction  clear  between  the  two 
parties  ;  but  this  suffrage  issue  is  no  part  of 
it.  What  is  it  ?  Opposition  to  the  further 
extension  of  slavery. 

Mr.  NORTH  (Interrupting).  I  desire  to 
correct  the  gentleman.  I  stated  distinctly, 
that  was  the  difference,  as  far  as  the  politics 
of  the  State  were  concerned.     No  further. 

Mr.  BALCOMBE.  Very  well;  I  take  the 
gentleman  upon  that  ground,  and  I  say  here, 
that  it  is  not  the  wish  of  a  majority  of  this 
Convention  this  day,  to  take  that  issue.  It 
is  not  the  wish  of  the  Republican  party  to 
join  issue  upon  that  question.  It  is  the  wish 
of  the  majority  of  the  Republican  party  to 
ignore  that  issue  in  our  State  politics.  I  be- 
lieve it  to  be  the  desire  of  the  majority  of  the 
Republican  party  to  ignore  the  Temperance 
issue,  and  all  other  side  issues.  I  believe 
that  is  the  principle  upon  which  the  party 
was  formed.  For  instance :  I  am  in  favor 
of  a  protective  tariff;  I  agree  to  lay  that 
aside,  and  agree  with  my  friend  here  fi"om 
Steele  county,  (Mr.  Coggswell)  who  is  an 
anti-protection  man ;  and  he  agrees  to  lay  that 
aside  and  all  other  issues,  that  we  may  stand 
together  and  fight  to  the  best  of  our  ability 
against  the  further  extension  of  slavery  and 
the  slave  power.  We  do  not  fight  for  the 
abolition  of  slavery ;  we  do  not  fight  for  negro 
suffrage ;  nor  for  the  abolition  of  slavery  in 
any  particular  locality ;  nor  against  the  fugi- 
tive slave  law ;  but  the  party  was  formed  for 
an  express  purpose — for  one  purpose  only. 
Now,  I  suppose,  for  instance,  there  are  a  ma- 
jority of  protective  tariff"  men  in  this  Conven- 
tion ;  and  suppose  further,  that  should  I 
insist  upon  a  protective  tariff^,  and  require 
that  to  be  placed  in  the  platform ;  would  not 
that  ibe  doing  injustice  to  my  Democratic 
friend,  who  come  into  the  party  with  me 
under  the  impression  that  wo  had  laid  that 
aside  in  our  Union  ?  Again,  on  the  subject 
of  Temperance.  I  am  a  temperance  man.  I 
have  belonged  to  all  the  temperance  societies 
that  have  existed,  since  I  was  twenty-one 
years  of  age ;  and  I  never  drank  a  glass  of 


MINNESOTA  CONTENTION  DEBATES— Thtbsdat,   Acgust  6. 


363 


liquor  at  a  bar,  except  as  a  medicinal  prescrip- 
tion ;  bnt  I  never  will  agree  that  a  temperance 
plank  shall  be  in  the  Republican  platform; 
and  I  say  it  would  be  a  violation  of  our  party 
oi"ganization.  So,  when  another  portion  of 
the  party  alleges  that  negro  sufirage  is  a 
plank  in  the  platform,  I  shall  deny  it,  and  say 
it  is  not  the  principle  upon  which  I  united 
with  my  finend  fix)m  Steele  county  in  sustain- 
ing. We  imited  upon  the  understanding, 
that  all  other  issues  should  be  laid  aside 
except  that  one ;  and  that  we  would  work 
together,  shoulder  to  shoulder,  against  the 
further  aggressions  of  the  slave  power,  and 
confine  ourselves  to  that  issue,  and  to  that 
alone. 

Now,  as  to  the  question :  Like  my  friend 
from  Goodhue,  (Mr.  McClure)  I  cannot  see 
for  the  life  of  me,  why  gentlemen  cannot  just 
leave  it  to  the  people.  Is  it  because  they  are 
afraid  of  the  pe<^le — ^because  they  distrust 
the  people  on  this  question?  If  they  do, 
then  they  insert  a  provision  whidi  they  know 
is  against  the  wishes;  of  the  people,  and  which 
will  have  a  tendency  to  endanger  the  accept- 
ance of  OUT  Constitution  by  the  people.  Now 
I  submit  it  to  the  candid  ccmsideration  of  the 
membei^  of  this  Convention  who  are  in  favor 
of  equal  sufirage  without  reference  to  color, 
whether  it  is  not  wrong  under  such  a  state  of 
things  to  strike  out  this  word  "  white."  You 
admit  that  it  is  not  a  plank  in  the  platform  of 
the  Republican  party,  yet  you  ask  us  to  adopt 
your  peculiar  views  to  the  serious  embarrass- 
ment of  our  party  in  the  coming  canvass. 

I  regret  exceedingly  that  this  question  has 
assimied  its  present  aspect  I  had  believed 
that  it  was  substantially  settied  elsewhere  in 
accordance  with  the  report  of  the  committee 
on  sufirage.  As  I  said  before,  I  regret  very 
much  that  this  matter  has  been  precipitated 
upon  us  here,  for  I  believe  it  can  result  in  no 
good,  but  much  harm. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  desire  to  say  in  regard 
to  this  question  simply  that  I  did  not  propose 
to  make  any  remarks  upon  this  question.  I 
was  pleased  at  the  course  the  discussion  took 
until  very  recently,  from  the  fact  that  it 
seemed  to  be  carried  on  amicably,  and  no 
accusations  were  made  against  those  who  dif- 
fered in  opinion.  The  gentleman  from  Scott 
county,  (Mr.  Galbbaith)  and  the  gentieman 
frwn  Rice  county,  Mr.  (Nobth)  cairied  on  the 


discussion  in  a  very  fair  manner,  and  calcula- 
ted to  call  out  the  particular  opinions  of  indi- 
viduals. I  intended  to  record  my  vote  with- 
out any  remarks.  But  when  gentiemen  tell 
me  that  if  I  vote  to  strike  out  the  word 
"  white,"  I  vote  for  what  I  know  wiU  defeat 
the  Constitution,  it  demands  from  me  an  em- 
phatic denial. 

Mr.  BALCOMBE.  Allow  me  to  correct 
the  gentleman.  I  stated  that  if  the  gentie- 
man had  confidence  in  the  people,  why  not 
submit  the  question  to  the  people ;  and  if  they 
had  not  confidence,  and  did  not  believe  the 
people  would  strike  out  the  word  "  white," 
why  insist  upon  our  striking  it  out,  and 
thereby  leave  it  so  that  negroes  will  have  the 
right  to  vote,  when  they  own  that  a  majority 
of  the  people  will  not  favor  a  Constitution 
with  that  provision  in  it. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  understand  the  gen- 
tleman further  to  say  that  we  were  voting  to 
strike  it  out'when  we  knew  it  must  defeat  the 
Constitution.  Does  the  gentieman  disclaim 
that  sentiment? 

Mr.  BALCOMBE.  I  did  not  say  so.  I 
said  it  was  wrong  for  them  to  strike  out  the 
word  if  they  did  know  that  feet,  and  that  if 
they  felt  that  a  majority  of  the  people  were 
not  in  favor  of  negro  sufirage,  it  was  wrong 
to  insist  that  we  should  strike  oul  the  word. 
If  they  have  confidence  in  the  people  why 
not  leave  them  to  strike  it  out. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  accept  the  disclaimer 
willingly,  and  am  glad  to  be  corrected.  But 
in  reply  to  the  question  the  gentieman  pK>- 
pounds,  I  would  say  that  if  a  majority  of  this 
Convention  are  satisfied  that  a  majority  of  the 
people  are  opposed  to  having  the  word  "white" 
in  the  Constitution,  they  would  be  recreant 
to  their  duty  if  they  do  not  strike  it  out.  If 
we  are  satisfied  that  the  people  do  not  desire 
it,  how  can  we  go  before  them  and  say  "  we 
"knew  you  were  opposed  to  the' word  remain- 
"ing,  but  we  put  it  in  there,  and  leave  you  to 
"correct  our  wrong  ?  "  Would  that  be  doing 
our  duty  ?  I  do  not  pretend  to  know,  and  I 
distinctiy  state  that  I  do  not  know  whether  a 
majority  of  the  people  are  in  favor  of  the 
word  "white"  being  in  the  Constitution  or 
not.  But  I  do  know  that  I  am  myself  op- 
posed to  inserting  the  word  because  I  believe 
it  is  wrong  to  do  so.  The  grounds  of  that 
wrong  have  been  fully  set  forth  by  the  gen- 


364 


MINNESOTACONVENTION  DEBATES-  Thursday,  August  6. 


tleman  from  Rice  county  (Mr.  North)  and  I 
have  been  educated  in  that  doctrine  myself. 
My  first  political  education  was  in  the  old 
democratic  State  of  New  Hampshire — the 
banner  State  of  democracy  in  New  England. 
The  doctrine  of  negro  suffrage  prevailed 
there,  and  negroes  were  permitted  to  vote. 
But  before  I  attained  my  majority  circum- 
stances caused  my  removal  into  the  Whig 
State  of  Massachusetts,  then  the  banner 
State  of  Whiggery.  The  same  doctrine  of  ne- 
gro suffrage  existed  there,  and  no  one  objected 
to  it.  Is  it  strange  then  that  under  that  sys- 
tem of  education  I  should  still  be  in  favor  of 
that  doctrine,  unless  proof  is  brought  up  here 
to  show  that  it  is  wrong  ?  I  honestly  believe 
that  is  right,  and  I  claim  the  credit  of  being 
honestly  of  that  opinion.  All  I  ask  of  gen- 
tleman is  to  accord  to  me  the  same  honesty 
they  claim  for  themselves.  If  the  word  is 
retained  in  the  Constitution  I  shall  ask  the 
people  to  strike  it  out :  or  if  it  is  Stricken  out 
by  us,  I  shall  ask  them  to  insert  it. 

Mr.  NORTH.  I  have  been  alluded  to  with 
severity  by  the  gentleman  from  Winona  for 
speaking,  perhaps  inadvertantly,  of  an  ex- 
pression of  the  sentiments  of  the  members  of 
this  Convention  upon  this  subject,  and  of 
their  voting  contrary  to  their  real  sentifiients 
on  account  of  policy.  The  gentleman  from 
Winona  says  I  alluded  to  that  upon  my  own 
responsibility.  I  always  do  that.  I  do  not 
ask  other  gentlemen  to  assume  any  portion 
of  the  responsibility  of  what  I  say.  All  will 
recollect  that  in  my  discussion  of  this  ques- 
tion, I  did  not  discuss  it  upon  any  party 
grounds.  Gentlemen  will  bear  me  witness 
that  the  only  allusion  I  made  to  the  Republi- 
can party  was  this :  That  if  we  acted  con- 
trary to  our  convictions  in  this  matter,  we 
gave  up  the  distinctive  features  which  distin- 
guished us  from  the  other  party  in  our  Ter- 
ritory, so  far  as  Territorial  questions  were 
concerned.  And  we  have  had  considerable 
discussion  arising  out  of  the  fact  that  I  allu- 
ded to  the  feet  that  some  gentleman  had  ex- 
pressed a  determination  to  go  against  what 
they  knew  to  be  right,  as  a  matter  of  policy 
under  the  circumstances.  Now  it  has  be- 
come 80  common  for  members  of  this  Con- 
vention, openly  to  express  the  same  senti- 
ments I  have  expressed,  ,that  I  do  not  con- 
sider that  I  transgress  any  rule  of  propriety 


in  alluding  to  the  oft  repeated  opinions  of 
gentlemen  composing  this  Convention ;  and  I 
was  surprised  that  the  gentleman  from  Wi- 
nona, (Mr.  Wilson)  who  had  expressed  the 
same  sentiments,  should  assume  to  get  up  here 
and  deny  the  fact.  Then,  and  not  till  then, 
did  I  allude  to  any  expression  of  opinion  of 
the  members  of  this  Convention  as  a  whole, 
upon  this  subject. 

The  other  gentleman  from  Winona  (Mr. 
Balcombe)  is  unnecessarily  excited  upon  this 
subject.  Having  been  a  little  excited  on  a 
former  occasion  upon  this  subject,  he  ought 
to  be  a  Httle  forbearing  now.  The  gentleman 
will  bear  us,  upon  our  side,  witness,  that  we 
have  kept  tolerably  calm.  We  intended  not  to 
be  excited,  and  I  do  not  think  we  have  been, 
nor  have  we  made  remarks  which  ought  to 
be  complained  of.  I  see  no  necessity  for 
excitement  upon  the  other  side. 

Mr.  BALCOMBE.  It  is  my  habit,  per- 
haps, in  discussing  questions,  to  evince  some 
interest  and  excitement.  And  the  gentleman 
here  refers  to  some  excitement  manifested 
upon  this  subject  upon  another  occasion,  out- 
side of  the  Convention  proper.  I  made  some 
remarks  then  which  I  take  back  now,  and 
one  in  particular.  Gentlemen  know  to  what 
I  allude,  and  I  need  not  repeat  it. 

But  I  will  say  this  in  reply  to  the  gentle- 
man's remarks  and  allusions,  that  I  am  some- 
what excited  when  any  man  or  class  of  men 
attempt  to  engross  into  the  platform  of  the 
Republican  party — and  by  the  way  I  am 
under  the  necessity  of  now  referring  to  party 
matters  somewhat,  because,  under  the  cir. 
cumstances,  this  Convention  is,  in  one  sense, 
looked  upon  as  a  party  Convention,  and 
the  course  they  take  will  be  taken  as  the 
course  of  that  party  upon  this  subject — I  say 
I  am  excited  when  men  attempt  to  insert  a 
plank  in  the  Republican  platform,  which  does 
not  belong  to  it.  I  am  a  little  excited  when 
any  class  of  individuals,  with  peculiar  views 
upon  any  subject,  attempt  to  foist  them  upon 
the  Republican  party.  I  should  be  a  little 
excited  if  some  free  trade  Republican  should 
attempt  to  insert  into  the  Republican  plat- 
form a  free  trade  plank.  I  should  be  excited 
should  some  gentleman  attempt  to  introduce 
some  anti-Maine-law  plank  into  the  platform. 
I  should  be  excited  if  some  gentleman  in 
favor^of  the  old  United  States  banking  system, 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Thttesday,  August  6. 


365 


should  attempt  to  insert  some  plank  upon 
that  subject.  And  so  I  am  here.  I  say 
where  there  is  a  matter  of  difference  in  the 
party,  that  subject  matter  of  difference  should 
be  laid  aside  so  far  as  party  action  is  con- 
cerned. I  do  not  object  to  gentlemen  advanc- 
ing their  peculiar  views  and  ideas  upon  any 
subject  whatever,  in  dny  place  or  at  any  time, 
but  I  do  insist  upon  it  that  we  ought  not  to 
crowd  upon  others  our  own  ideas  on  subjects 
upon  which  there  is  a  matter  of  difference. 
Suppose  I  am  in  favor  of  negro  suffrage — as 
I  am — there  are,  perhaps,  one-tenth  of  this 
Convention  who  are  opposed  to  it.  I  am  in 
favor  of  it,  but  think  it  proper  that  the  ques- 
tion of  striking  out  the  word  "white"  should 
be  left  to  the  people.  I  say  one-tenth  of  the 
Convention  may  be  opposed  to  allowing  the 
negro  to  vote.  Now  by  striking  out  the 
word  "  white"  you  give  the  negro  the  right 
of  suffrage,  and  thereby,  perhaps,  you  compel 
that  tenth  to  oppose  the  Constitution  which 
they  have  been  assisting  to  frame.  Perhaps 
when  we  go  home  to  our  constituents,  we 
may  find  a  large  nimiber  of  our  RepubUcan 
Mends  who  will  feel  under  obhgation  to  op- 
pose it  upon  that  ground,  and  at  the  same 
time  we  shall  have  the  other  party,  who  are 
all  opposed  to  negro  suffrage,  arrayed  against 
us.  Then  with  one-tenth,  one-twentieth,  or 
one-half  of  [our  own  party  opposed  to  us, 
what  would  become  of  our  Constitution  ? 

The  gentleman  refers  to  the  New  England 
Constitutions.  I  grant  that  those  Constitu- 
tions allow  negroes  to  vote,  with  certain 
restrictions.  But  I  believe  all  the  Constitu- 
tions which  have  been  framed  of  late  years, 
contain  this  word  "  white,"  and  Republican 
Conventions,  which  have  had  this  matter 
under  consideration  heretofore,  have  proposed 
to  do  as  we  propose  here — to  leave  the  word 
"  white "  in,  and  submit  to  the  people  the 
question  whether  negroes  shall  have  the  right 
to  vote.  The  Iowa  Convention,  which  framed 
the  Constitution  which  has  just  been  voted 
upon  by  the  people  of  that  State,  left  the 
word  "  white  "  in  the  Constitution,  and  sub- 
mitted to  the  people  the  question  whether  or 
not  it  should  be  stricken  out.  And  I  may 
say  here,  that  a  majority  of  the  members  of 
that  Convention  -were  Republicans.  The 
same  course  was  pursued  by  the  Constitu- 
tional Convention  of  Michigan  in  1850.    The 


vote  of  the  people  of  the  latter  State  decided 
that  the  word  "white"  should  remain  in  the 
Constitution,  and  it  does  remain  there  to  this 
day.  It  is  generally  conceded,  too,  I  believe, 
that  the  same  decision  will  be  made  by  the 
people  of  Iowa.  The  same  question  has  been 
submitted  to  the  people  of  other  Western 
States,  and  the  result  has  been  the  same. 

Now  what  have  we  to  expect  in  this  Terri- 
tory ?  Our  population  is  made  up  largely  of 
citizens  from  Wisconsin,  Iowa,  Michigan, 
Illinois,  and  other  Western  States.  We  are 
naturally,  then,  to  expect  that  there  will  be 
such  an  opposition  to  giving  the  negro  the 
right  of  suffrage,  that  if  we  submit  a  Consti- 
tution containing  such  a  provision,  it  will  be 
defeated.  Indeed,  I  actually  believe  we  may 
consider  such  a  Constitution  defeated  in 
advance. 

Mr.  NORTH.  I  would  ask  the  gentle- 
man one  question.  He  has  said  a  great  deal 
about  engrafting  a  new  principle  upon  the 
Republican  party.  I  confess  I  dislike  to 
hear  so  much  said  about  the  Republican 
party  in  this  Convention,  and  so  much  about 
engrafting  a  new  principle.  But  I  ask  the 
gentleman,  if  we  put  in  the  word  "  white " 
into  the  Constitution,  do  we  engraft  that  upon 
the  RepubUcan  party  as  a  principle  of  the 
party  ? 

Mr.  BALCOMBE.  K  we  leave  the  word 
"  white  "  where  it  is,  and  leave  it  to  a  vote  of 
the  people  to  say  whether  it  shall  remain 
there,  it  is  giving  the  whole  subject  matter 
into  the  hands  of  the  people  entirely.  We 
take  neither  one  position  or  the  other — nei- 
ther in  favor  of  it,  nor  in  opposition  to  it 
That  is  my  ground. 

As  to  the  gentleman's  first  remark,  as  I 
said  before,  the  circumstances  are  such  that 
upon  this  question  we  are  compelled  to  refer 
to  it  in  a  party  view.  We  are  looked  upon 
as  a  party  Convention,  and  our  action  here 
will  be  construed  as  the  action  of  the  Repub- 
lican party.  Our  position  on  this  subject 
will  be  considered  as  the  position  of  the  Re- 
publican party.  For  that  reason,  I  protest 
against  taking  the  position  at  all,  and  favor  the 
reference  of  the  matter  to  the  decision  of  the 
people. 

Mr.  NORTH.  I  understand  the  gentle- 
man to  say  that  by  inserting  the  word,  and 
leaving  it  to  a  vote  of  the  people,  we  do  not 


866 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Thursday,  August  6. 


take  sides  either  way.  I  respectfully  ask  the 
gentleman  if  taking  the  word  out,  and  then 
leaving  the  question  to  the  people,  is  taking 
sides  either  way,  more  than  the  other  course. 

Mr.  BALCOMBE.  It  is  under  the  cir- 
cumstances. 

Mr.  NORTH.  "  'Tis  strange  such  differ- 
"  ence  there  should  be,  'twixt  tweedle-dum 
"  and  tweedle-dee." 

Mr.  FOSTER.  The  gentleman  upon  my 
left  (Mr.  North)  alluded  to  me  I  suppose,  in 
some  of  his  remarks,  for  I  am  the  only  person 
in  this  Convention  that  answers  to  his  allu- 
sion. I  diflfer  with  my  friends  upon  both 
sides  of  this  question,  slightly, 

Mr.  NORTH.    Upon  the  fence,  I  suppose  ? 

Mr.  FOSTER.  Not  exactly.  I  am  one  of 
those  who  are  not  so  clear  that  this  doctrine 
of  equal  suffrage  and  equal  rights  to  all  men, 
is  not  a  plank  in  the  Republican  platform. 
My  recollection  is  that  in  the  platform  laid 
down  at  Philadelphia  the  Declaration  of  In- 
dependence was  reaffirmed,  and  made  a  part 
of  that  platform ;  and  that  on  sundry  other 
occasions,  both  in  State  and  Territorial  Con- 
ventions we  have  adopted  resolutions  which 
point  to  the  idea  of  the  political  equality  of  all 
men,  I  do  not  say  that  it  is  so.  There  is  a 
doubt  in  my  mind  and  our  friends  upon  the 
one  side  are  entitled  to  the  benefits  of  that 
doubt,  if  I  say  it  is  so ;  and  our  friends  upon 
the  other  side  are  entitled  to  the  benefit  of 
the  doubt,  if  I  say  it  is  not.  (Laughter.)  So 
you  see  I  do  not  agree  with  either.  They 
perhaps  are  both  right  and  both  wrong,  and 
I  do  not  pass  judgment  upon  them. 

I  am  individually  in  favor  of  progress,  and 
I  say  now  that  I  vote  as  I  do  purely  upon  the 
groimd  of  policy.  Gentlemen  may  think  that 
is  all  wrong,  but  I  think  it  is  perfectly  right. 
I  vote  against  striking  out  the  word  "  white" 
and  upon  that  groimd  solely.  I  say  we  are 
part  and  parcel  of  the  great  party  that  has 
great  objects  to  attain,  and  one  is  the  repres- 
sing of  the  slave  power,  the  preventing  the 
extension  of  slavery,  and  generally  the  bring- 
ing the  government  back  to  the  old  platform 
of  freedom  instead  of  slavery.  Now  I  have 
strong  doubts  whether  the  people  of  this  Ter- 
ritory are  educated  up  to  the  mark  of  equal 
rights,  so  as  to  endorse  the  doctrine  of  negro 
suffrage.  I  want  this  Constitution  adopted, 
and  I  want  two  repretentativcs  in  the  House, 


and  two  senators  upon  the  floor  of  the  Sen- 
ate from  the  State  of  Minnesota.  Now  believ- 
ing that  the  people  are  not  sufficiently  educa- 
ted up  to  the  mark  of  adopting  a  Constitution 
which  does  recognize  negro  suffrage,  I  am  not 
ready  now  to  put  in  such  a  provision,  and 
thereby  risk  the  loss  of  all  the  benefits  which 
may  arise  from  its  adoption.  To  get  a  minor 
good  you  lose  a  greater.  "We  cannot  get  all ; 
and  therefore,  upon  the  principle  that  I  prefer  a 
quarter  of  a  loaf  to  no  loaf  at  all,  I  shall  vote 
in  favor  of  retaining  the  word  proposed  to  be 
stricken  out. 

Mr.  PERKINS  moved  (at  five  o'clock  and 
thirty  minutes)  that  the  Convention  adjourn. 

The  motion  was  not  agreed  to. 

Mr.  HARDING  moved  the  previous  ques- 
tion on  the  amendment. 

The  previous  question  was  seconded  and 
the  main  question  ordered  to  be  put. 

Mr.  BATES  demanded  the  yeas  and  nays. 

The  yeas  and  nays  were  ordered  and  the 
question  being  put,  it  was  decided  in  the  neg- 
ative, yeas  17,  nays  34,  as  follows : 

Yeas. — Messrs.  Baldwin,  Bates,  Cleghorn,  Col- 
burn,  Davis,  Gerrish,  Haj'den,  Holley,  Mantor, 
Messer,  North,  Phelps,  Perkins,  Putnam,  Peck- 
ham,  Secombe  and  Sheldon. — 17. 

Nays. — Messrs.  Aldrich,  Anderson,  Balcombe, 
Bartholomew,  Butler,  Coggswell,  Cedcrstam,  Du- 
ley  Dickerson,  Eschlie,  Foster,  Folsom,  Galbraith, 
Harding,  Hanson,  King,  Kemp,  Lyle,  Lowe,  Mc- 
Cann,  McKune,  McClure,  Morgan,  Mills,  Murphy, 
Bobbins,  Russell,  Stannard,  Smith,  Thompson, 
Vaughn,  Walker,  Watson  and  Wilson. — 34. 

So  the  Convention  refused  to  strike  out  the 
word  "white." 

Mr.  FOSTER  offered  the  following  substi- 
tute for  section  one : 

"Sec.  1.  Every  white  male  person  of  the  age 
of  twenty-one  years  and  upwards,  (excepting  per- 
sons under  guardianship,  non  combos  mentis,  or 
insane,)  belonging  to  either  of  the  following  class- 
es, who  shall  have  resided  in  the  State  for  six 
months,  and  in  the  town,  ward,  or  precinct,  in 
which  may  he  ofier  to  vote,  for  ten  days  next  pre- 
ceding any  election,  shall  be  deemed  a  Qualified 
elector  at  such  election,  viz  : 

"  First — Citizens  of  the  United  States ; 

"  Second. — Every  person  of  foreign  birth,  who 
shall  exhibit  a  certificate  from  a  proper  court  of 
record,  that  he  has  declared  his  intention  to  be- 
come a  citizen  of  the  United  States,  conformably 
to  the  laws  of  the  United  States. 

"Third. — Civilized  persons' of  Indian  descent, 
not  members  of  any  tribe." 

On  motion  of  Mr.  KING,  adjourned. 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Fbidat,  August  7. 


367 


TWENTY-THIRD  DAY. 

Fridat,  August  Tth,  1857. 
The  Convention  met  at  9  o'clock,  a.  m. 
The  journal  of  yesterday  was  read  and  ap- 
proved. 

EQUAL   SUFFBAGE. 

Mr.  CCGGSWELL  offered  the  Mowing 
resolution : 

"  Bfsolted,  That  there  shall  be  submitted  to  the 
qualified  roters  of  this  Territory,  at  the  time  this 
Constitution  is  submitted  to  them  for  their  ratifica- 
tion or  rejection,  the  following  proposition ;  and  if 
it  shall  receive  a  majority  of  all  the  rotes  cast  both 
for  and  against  it,  then  it  shall  become  a  part  and 
portion  of  the  Constitution,  otherwise  it  shall  be 
null  and  void.  Proposition  First :  Every  male 
person,  of  either  mixed  or  full  African  or  negro 
blood  of  the  age  of  twenty-one  years  and  upwards, 
and  who  shall  have  resided  in  this  State  six  months 
next  preceding  any  election,  and  in  the  town, 
precinct  or  ward  in  which  he  claims  the  right  to 
vote,  ten  days  next  preceding  the  same,  shall  be 
deemed  a  qualified  elector,  and  shall  have  the  right 
to  vote  for  all  officers  which  may  be  elected  by  the 
people. 

Mr.  C.  said :  My  object  in  offering  that 
resolution,  is  to  ascertain  if  it  is  the  wish,  de- 
sire and  intention  of  the  Convention  to  have 
a  proposition  of  that  character  submitted — 
and  submitted  as  a  separate  proposition. 
During  the  course  of  the  remarks  made  yes- 
terday in  regard  to  the  rights  of  voters  to 
vote  at  the  different  elections,  it  was  intimated 
that  a  proposition  of  that  character  should 
come  from  the  committee  on  the  Schedule, 
and  be  made  a  part  and  parcel  of  the  Sched- 
ule. I  offer  the  resolution  for  the  purpose  of 
ascertaining  the  wish  of  the  Convention,  in 
that  respect,  for  the  reason  that  I  am  a  mem- 
ber of  diat  committee,  and  am  exceedingly 
anxious  to  know  something  about  what  the 
duties  of  that  committee  are,  and  to  enter,  to 
a  certain  extent,  upon  their  discharge. 

Mr.  "WILSON.  Permit  me  to  explain.  I 
referred  yesterday  to  the  matter  spdcen  of  by 
the  gentleman  from  Steele  county,  and  if  I 
named  the  committee  upon  the  Schedule,  it 
was  a  mistake.  I  intended  the  committee  on 
the  Elective  Franchise.  I  stated  that  the 
Chairman  of  that  committee  had,  at  that  time, 
a  proposition  of  that  kind  in  his  hands. 

Mr.  NORTH.  I  would  inquire  if  the  gen- 
tleman proposes  that  the  committee  on  the 
Elective  Franchise  shall  insert  that  as  a  sep- 


arate article,  or  make  a  proposition  to  this 
Convention  to  be  passed  upon  ? 

Mr.  WILSON.  In  some  States  the  prop- 
ositicKi  has  been  contained  in  the  Schedule, 
and  in  others  it  has  been  submitted  as  a  sep- 
arate proposition. 

Mr.  NORTH.  It  should  be  either  incor- 
porated in  the  article  on  the  Elective  Fran- 
chise, or  in  the  schedule — one  or  the  other. 

The  PRESIDENT.  The  resolution  having 
given  rise  to  discussion,  will  lie  over  imder 
the  rule,  until  to-morrow . 

Mr.  CEDERSTAM,  from  the  committee  oo. 
the  Elective  Franchise,  made  the  following 
supplemental  report,  which  was  read  a  first 
and  second  time  and  laid  on  the  table  to  be 
printed,  viz : 

"At  the  same  election  that  this  Constitution  is 
submitted  to  the  people  for  its  adoption  or  rejec- 
tion a  proposition  to  amend  the  same  by  striking 
out  the  word  *  white'  from  Article  — ,  Sec.  1,  on  the 
'  Right  of  Suftrage,'  shall  be  separately  submitted 
to  the  electors  of  this  State  for  adoption  or  rejec- 
tion in  manner  following :  A  separate  ballot  may 
be  given  by  every  person  having  a  right  to  vote  at 
said  election,  to  be  deposited  in  a  separate  box ; 
and  those  given  for  the  adoption  of  such  prorposi- 
tion  shall  have  the  words,  '  Shall  the  word  '  white' 
'be  stricken  out  of  the  Article  — ,  Sec.  1,  on  the 
Right  of  Suffrage  ? — Yes.'  And  those  given 
against  the  proposition  shall  have  the  words, 
*  Shall  the  word  '  white'  be  stricken  out  of  Article 
'  — ,  Sec.  1,  on  the  Right  of  Suffrage  ?— No.'  And 
if,  at  said  election,  the  number  of  ballots  cast  in 
favor  of  said  proposition  shall  be  a  majority  of  all 
those  cast  on  that  subject,  the  said  word  '  white' 
shall  be  stricken  from  said  Article  and  be  no  part 
thereof." 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  I  move  that  that  re- 
port be  referred  to  the  committee  upon  the 
Schedule,  with  instructions  to  insert  a  propo- 
sition, embracing  the  substance  of  that  re- 
port, in  their  report  upon  the  Schedule. 

Mr.  MORGAN.  I  am  not  certain  that  the 
Schedule  is  the  proper  place  for  such  a  propo- 
sition. I  have  the  impression  that  that  ques- 
tion has  been  usually  submitted  in  a  separate 
article.  I  would  ftirther  remark,  that  the 
Schedule  is  a  part  of  the  Constitution  itself, 
and  forever  remains  a  part  of  the  Constitu- 
tion. I  suppose  that  if  this  proposition  is  not 
accepted  by  the  people,  it  will  not  be  in  the 
Constitution  at  all,  and  should  not  subse- 
quently appear  there.  If  it  goes  into  the 
Schedule,  it  must  necessarily  remain  in  the 
Constitution. 


I  • 


868 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Fbidat,  August  7. 


Mr.  GALBRAITH.  I  would  simply  re- 
mark, that  the  Schedule  relates  to  matters 
connected  with  our  transition  State,  and  re- 
mains permanently  in  the  Constitution ;  but 
after  the  first  year  most,  if  not  all,  of  the 
Schedule  is  a  dead  letter.  For  instance,  the 
first  thing  in  a  Schedule  usually  is,  that  all 
laws  which  exist  at  the  time  of  the  adoption 
of  the  Constitution,  shall  still  exist  until 
changed  or  amended  under  the  Constitution. 
Now  the  Schedule  is  usually  superceded  the 
first  year.  The  Schedule  mostly  is  composed 
of  matter,  pertaining  to  getting  the  machinery 
of  the  Constitution  into  operation. 

Mr.  FOSTER.  I  think  the  gentleman  from 
Hennepin  county  (Mr.  Morgan,)  is  in  error 
in  regard  to  the  permanent  character  of  the 
Schedule.  It  is  true  that  all  matters  that  are 
of  a  temporary  character,  are  put  in  the 
Schedule.  But  there  are  matters  there  which 
may  be  permanent  for  some  time.  It  con- 
tains the  first  apportionment  under  the  Con- 
stitution ;  it  prescribes  the  judicial  districts  ; 
and  it  contains  other  matters  of  that  kind. 
But  at  the  same  time,  I  believe  it  would  be 
better  to  submit  this  question  in  a  separate 
article,  and  that  the  proper  way  would  be  to 
refer  it  to  the  committee  on  Miscellaneous 
Provisions,  of  which  the  gentleman  from  Scott 
county  (Mr.  Galbraith,)  is  Chairman. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  I  care  not  what  dis- 
position is  made  of  it.  I  notice  that  in  some 
Constitutions,  it  is  placed  in  the  Schedule, 
while  in  others  it  is  contained  in  other  parts 
of  the  Constitution.  Wherever  it  is,  it  must 
be  in  the  Constitution,  and  it  is  not  material 
with  me. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  hope  the  report  will  lie 
over  until  we  get  through  the  report  upon 
which  the  Convention  is  now  at  work.  For 
one,  I  prefer  to  see  this  proposition  in  this 
very  article  on  the  Elective  Franchise.  It  is 
a  matter  which  pertains  strictly  to  that  sub- 
ject ;  and  I  prefer,  not  only  that  it  be  intro- 
duced as  a  proviso,  but  that  it  should  forever 
remain  in  the  Constitution,  that  it  may  be 
seen  that  although  the  word  "  white"  be  in- 
serted in  the  Constitution,  yet  that  it  was  in- 
serted with  the  express  proviso  that  the  peo- 
ple should,  by  a  popular  vote,  determine 
whether  it  should  remain  or  not.  At  the 
proper  time,  I  shall  move  that  such  a  proviso 
be  inserted  as  an  amendment  to  section  one. 


Mr.  GALBRAITH.  As  this  matter  has 
given  rise  to  debate,  I  suppose  it  will  lie  over 
until  to-morrow  under  the  rule. 

The  PRESIDENT.    It  will. 

ELECTIVE     FRANCHISE. 

The  Convention  resumed  the  consideration 
of  the  report  of  the  committee  on  the  Elective 
Franchise — the  pending  question  being  on  the 
substitute  oflfered  yesterday  by  Mr.  Foster. 

Mr.  HAYDEN.  I  move  to  amend  section 
one  by  striking  out  the  words,  "  every  white 
"male  inhabitant,"  and  insert  in  lieu  thereof, 
"  every  citizen  of  the  United  States." 

The  PRESIDENT.  That  is  the  same 
amendment  which  was  oflfered  yesterday  and 
considered  at  length.  The  Chair  is  of  opinion 
that  it  is  out  of  order  now. 

Mr.  HAYDEN.  Does  the  Chair  pretend 
to  rule  that  a  motion  to  strike  out  and  insert, 
is  to  be  precluded  by  a  motion  simply  to 
strike  out  ? 

The  PRESIDENT.  The  amendment  is 
substantially  the  one  oflfered  yesterday  by 
the    gentleman    from    Rice    county,    (Mr. 

NORTU.) 

Mr.  HAYDEN.  Will  the  Chair  answer  me 
the  question  whether  a  motion  to  strike  out 
precludes  a  motion  to  strike  out  and  insert  ? 

The  PRESIDENT.  The  Chau-  would 
state  that  as  a  general  rule,  where  an  amend- 
ment has  been  proposed  and  voted  down, 
another  substantially  the  same  is  out  of  order. 

Mr.  FOSTER.  This  motion  is  not  sunply 
to  strike  out,  but  a  motion  to  strike  out  and 
insert  something  which  entirely  qualifies  the 
sense  of  the  section. 

Mr.  HAYDEN.  I  think  my  amendment 
is,  according  to  parliamentary  rules,  strictly 
in  order,  and  if  the  Chair  decide  otherwise 
I  shall  appeal  from  the  decision  of  the 
Chair. 

Mr.  KING.    Rule  twenty-ninth  says : 

"A  motion  to  strike  out  and  insert  shall  be 
deemed  indivisible  ;  but  a  resolution  to  strike  out 
being  lost,  shall  neither  preclude  amendment,  nor 
a  motion  to  strike  out  and  insert." 

The  PRESIDENT.  The  Chair  is  aware  of 
that  rule,  and  also  of  another  rule  laid  down 
in  Jefferson's  Manual,  which  asserts  the  piin- 
ciple  that  where  a  proposition  is  oflfered  simi- 
lar to  a*former  one,  it  is  not  in  order.  Still  if 
it  is  the  wish  of  the  Convention  to  go  into  a 
discussion  of  this  question  again,  the  Chair  is 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Fbidat,  Acgcst  7. 


369 


willing  to,  and  will  waive  all  his  objections  to 
that  course. 

Mr.  HAYDEN.  I  want  to  understand 
whether  the  Chair  decides  that  I  am  in  order 
or  not  ? 

The  PRESIDENT.  The  Chair  withdraws 
all  objections. 

Mr.  HAYDEN.  I  wished  to  know  that 
&ct,  because  I  believe  in  adhering  to  parlia- 
mentary usage. 

I  have  oflfered  the  amendment  because  I 
deem  it  my  right,  privilege  and  duty  to  sub- 
mit a  few  remarks  upon  this  question.  If  I 
did  not  feel  thus,  I  should  certainly  hold  my 
peace.  Being  afflicted  with  a  disorder  which 
makes  it  painful  for  me  to  speak,  I  shotild 
refrain  from  doing  so,  did  I  not  feel  called 
upon  to  that  extent,  as  to  overtook  my  physi- 
cal weakness.  I  offer  th«  amendment  because 
I  am  opposed  to  that  first  section  as  it  was  re- 
ported from  the  committees.  I  offer  it  because 
I  am  in  favor  of  equal  suffrage.  I  am  aware 
that  I  am  to  be  told  that  such  an  amendment 
will  bring  us  into  conflict  with  the  decision  of 
the  Supreme  Court  of  the  United  States.  I 
I  care  nothing  in  regard  to  that,  either  one 
way  or  the  other.  It  is  said  that  inasmuch 
as  the  Supreme  Court  have  decided  against 
the  claims  of  a  cer^fiin  class  of  persons  to  be 
citizens,  that  they  could  have  no  chance  of 
equal  suffrage,  even  though  such  an  amend- 
ment should  be  adopted.  Be  that  as  it  may, 
the  adoption  of  it  wiU  put  that  matter  in  no 
worse  condition  than  it  would  be  under  the 
section  as  it  now  stands.  I  trust  the  time 
will  come  when  the  people  of  these  United 
States  \vill  change  the  decision  of  the  Supreme 
Court  in  that  respect ;  when  they  wiU  place 
upon  the  bench  of  that  court  men  who  will 
not  be  under  the  dictation  of  the  slave  poiver ; 
K,  then,  this  amendment  can  make  that 
matter  no  worse,  I  am  in  favor  of  adopt- 
ing it. 

But,  sir,  there  are  those  here  who  have 
labored  hard  to  show  the  expediency  of  leav- 
ing this  first  section  just  as  it  is.  Now,  sr, 
while  I  am  willing  to  award  to  those  who  are 
opposed  to  me  in  opinion  upon  this  point,  the 
same  honesty  which  I  claim  for  myself,  I  am 
sorry  that  I  am  forced  to  believe  that  men 
claiming  to  be  Republicans  will  adopt  the 
principle  of  the  old  adage  that  we  are  bound 
to  choose  between  two  evils.  I  admit  that  in 
47 


a  philosophic  point  of  view  it  is  COTtect,  but 
morally  I  deny  that  it  is.  I  repudiate  the 
idea,  and  I  detest  the  doctrine.  Sir,  I  recog- 
nize a  higher  law.  I  believe  the  higher  law  is 
the  basis  of  all  just  legislation ;  that  it  is  the 
standard  by  which  to  try  ihe  acts  and  decis- 
ions of  men ;  and  that  so  far  from  binding  us 
to  a  choice  between  two  evils,  commands  us 
to  shun  even  the  appearance  of  evil.  I  believe 
that  this  verj'  doctrine  of  expediency  is  the 
doctrine  which  will  ruin  us  as  a  Republican 
party  in  this  Territory.  Why,  sir,  my  con- 
stituents are  deeply  aflBicted  to  learn  that 
such  a  state  of  things  exist  here.  Men  who 
have  but  recently  left  the  pro-slaverj'  ranks, 
have  tmned  because  we  were  taking  a  stand 
for  the  right.  But  they  now  say  that  if  such 
a  milk-and-water  Constitution  is  fimned,  they 
leave  us.  I  say,  therefore,  that  in  this  point 
of  view,  it  is  wrong  for  us  to  keep  that  word 
in  our  Constitution,  and  it  wiU  be  our  ruin. 

But  one  gentleman  told  us,  that  it  was 
inexpedient  to  take  the  course  I  propose,  in 
view  or  the  great  contest  which  is  going  on 
in  this  nation.  Now,  sir,  in  that  very  view . 
I  believe  it  is  demanded  of  us  to  stand  up 
for  the  right,  and  maintain  the  truth,  and  to 
yield  to  no  expediency  which  shaU  sacrifice 
the  right,  though  we  may  be  delayed  thereby 
somewhat,  in  attaining  ovu-  ends.  It  is  the 
only  way  to  insiure  ultimate  success.  AVe 
can  aU  see  what  compromises  have  done  for 
this  nation,'and  what  the  doctrine  of  expedi- 
ency has  done  for  political  parties.  It  sank 
the  old  Whig  party  beycmd  the  reach  of  res- 
urrection, and  it  will  sweep  us  into  oblivion  if 
we  pursue  the  same  course. 

Another  gentleman  has  told  us  that  he  was 
in  fiivor  of  the  first  section  as  a  matter  of 
justice;  that  he  believed  it  to  be  right.  So 
fer  as  that  is  concerned,  there  is  consistency. 
I  say  if  a  man  believes  himself  to  be  right, 
let  him  maintain  his  principles  though  the 
Heavens  fall.  But  let  us  examine  the  consis- 
tency of  the  gentleman  a  little  ferther.  He 
told  us  that  the  arguments  of  those  who  were 
in  favor  of  equal  suffrage  proved  to  much. 
Let  us  see.  He  has  told  us  that  equal  suf- 
frage necessarily  brings  the  black  man  to  a 
social  equality,  and  then  he  went  on  to 
describe  that  social  equality  by  saying  that  it 
would  be  bringing  the  black  man  into  our 
houses,  and  marry  him  to  our  daughters. 


870 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Fmday,  August  7. 


Mr.  GALBRAITH.  I  hope  the  gentleman 
will  not  misrepresent  me.  I  did  not  say  any 
such  thing  at  all;  That  is  not  the  language  I 
used,  nor  did  I  convey  that  idea. 

Mr.  HAYDEN.  Did  not  the  gentleman 
express  that  sentiment  ? 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  I  did  not.  I  said  it 
was  useless  to  attempt  to  give  a  man  the  elec- 
tive franchise,  and  not  equalize  him  socially. 

Mr.  HAYDEN.  Did  not  the  gentleman 
define  social  equality  as  the  marrying  the 
negroes  to  our  own  daughters  ? 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.     That  I  did  say. 

Mr.  HAYDEN.  I  did  not  wish  to  misrep- 
resent the  gentleman  in  any  respect.  Now, 
sir,  I  deny  that  raising  any  class  to  an  equality 
of  suffrage  brings  them  to  such  a  social 
equality  as  that. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.    Should  it  not  ? 

Mr.  HAYDEN.  No,  sir,  I  say  empha- 
tically. Now  the  Almighty  has  put  a  dififer- 
ence  between  the  races  in  complexion. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  I  suggest,  "  All  men 
"are  bom  free  and  equal."  Does  that  mean 
equal  in  right  of  suffrage  ?  When  you  take 
one  position,  why  do  not  you  take  it  ui  aU  its 
meaning? 

Mr.  HAYDEN.  They  are  born  equal, 
that  is  with  equal  privilege  to  liberty,  life 
and  the  pursuit  of  happiness ;  and  not  the 
right  to  break  over  what  the  Almighty  has 
done.  But  now  as  to  the  gentleman's  doc- 
trine of  social  equality.  After  he  had  passed 
through  the  greater  part  of  his  speech,  he 
urged  the  importance  of  bringing  that  class 
up  to  to  a  social  equality,  and  then  that  they 
would  be  prepared  for  equal  suffrage. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  I  said  it  was  the  duty 
of  gentleman  who  urged  equal  suffrage, 
to  do  that ;  and  I  said  it  was  impossible  to 
bring  them  up  to  that 

Mr.  HAYDEN.  This  difference  of  social 
equality  is  the  very  thing  which  is  producing 
the  amalgamation  of  the  races;  and  if  we 
wish  to  prevent  that,  we  should  bring  them 
up  to  their  equal  rights.  Why  is  it  that 
amalgamation  is  now  going  on  as  it  is?  It  is 
because  colored  persons  have  no  right  to 
resist  the  nefarious  practices  of  the  most 
brutal  white  man.  Under  the  operation  of 
that  system,  fathers  are  yearly  selling  their 
own  offspring.    But  raise  colored  persons  to 


their  God-given  rights  and  it  will  prevent  the 
further  amalgamation  of  the  races. 

But,  sir,  I  am  in  favor  of  that  amendment, 
in  the  second  place,  because  I  am  opposed  to 
the  substitute  offered  by  the  gentleman  from 
Dakota,  and  opposed  to  it  upon  principle.  I 
believe  it  to  be  inexpedient,  and  the  worst 
course  we  could  take.  There  has  been  much 
said  here  in  regard  to  equal  rights  and  equal 
suffrage  contained  in  the  Declaration  of  Inde- 
pendence, and  much  has  been  said  here  in 
regard  to  the  Republican  party  having  but 
one  plank.  It  has  been  said  that  old  issues 
have  become  obsolete,  that  there  is  but  one 
plank,  and  that,  opposition  to  the  extension 
of  slavery.  Now,  sir,  I  am  prepared  to  say 
that  no  Convention,  either  State  or  National, 
has  been  held  since  the  Republican  party 
came  into  existence,  where  any  platform  has 
been  adopted,  but  what  has  incorporated  into 
that  platform  the  principles  contained  in  the 
Declaration  of  Independence.  And  why  did 
not  the  question  of  equal  suffrage  come  up  ? 
Because  it  was  not  demanded.  But  I  defy- 
any  man  to  successfully  deny  the  assertion, 
when  I  say  that  the  doctrine  of  equal  suffrage 
is  contained  in  the  Declaration  of  Indepen- 
dence. Men  may  refer  to  it  as  a  side  issue 
as  much  as  they  please,  yet  it  stands  there, 
and  the  Repubhcan  party  of  this  nation  see  it 
there.  Why  do  we  venerate  our  fathers  ?  Is 
it  because  they  rejected  those  principles? 
No,  but  because  they  stood  by  them,  declared 
them  to  the  world  and  maintained  them 
against  the  odds  with  M'hich  they  had  to  con- 
tend at  the  risk  of  their  own  lives.  Now, 
sir,  when  we  repudiate  the  doctrine  contained 
in  the  Declaration  of  Independence,  we  ren- 
der ourselves  unworthy  of  our  noble  sires. 
Where  are  we  to  look  for  the  origin  of  these 
self-evident  truths  ?  Back  to  the  principles 
of  eternal  justice ;  and  all  that  man  has  said 
or  done,  or  can  say  or  do,  can  never  change 
them.  They  remain  the  same,  and  will  when 
our  heads  are  laid  beneath  the  clods  of  the 
valley. 

I  am  opposed  then  to  the  course  which  is 
proposed  to  be  taken,  because  I  believe  it  is 
wrong ;  and  to  show  that  it  is  wrong  I  step 
back  to  the  teachings  of  him  who  spake  as 
never  man  spake ;  I  step  back  to  him  who 
taught  with  authority,  and  not  as  the  scribes. 
And  he  said  •'  Whatever  ye  would  that  men 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION;DEBATES— Fbidat,  August  7. 


871 


"  should  do  to'you,  do  you  even  so  to  them, 
"  for  this  is  the  law  and  the  profits."  Now 
men  means  all  mankind.  Now,  sir,  until  we 
are  ready  to  deprive  ourselves  of  those  priv- 
ileges, we  are  wrong  in  depriving  our  fellow 
man  of  them,  although  he  has  a  sable  skin. 
And  that  great  Teacher,  when  asked  what 
was  the  first  and  great  commandment  in  the 
law,  answered:  "Thou  shalt  love  the  Lord 
"thy  Grod  with  all  thy  heart,  might,  mind  and 
"  strength ;  that  is  the  first  commandment ; 
"  and  the  second  is  like  imto^it ;  Thou  shalt 
"love  thy  neighbor  as  thyself;  upon  these 
"  hang  all  the  law  and  the  prophets."  Now  all 
the  principles  of  the  Bible,  as  revealed  to  man 
for  our  happiness  here  and  hereafter,  are  op- 
posed to  the  idea  which  gentlemen  advance, 
I  am  not  ashamed  to-day,  to  say  that  I 
believe  in  such  a  religion,  and  that  I  intend 
here,  and  always,  to  maintain  and  carry 
out  its  principles.  I  feel  in  this  that  I  have 
every  thing  on  my  side.  And  I  tell  you,  as 
a  matter  of  righteousness,  that  it  is  demanded 
of  us  to  oppose  such  principles  as  have  been 
advanced  here. 

But,  sir,  I  wish  here  to  say,  before  I  re- 
sume my  seat,  that  I  have  chosen  this  beau- 
tiful West  for  my  home.  Here  I  expect  that 
the  dust  of  my  body  will  in  the  future  mingle 
in  the  dust  of  Minnesota.  I  have  sought  it 
too  as  the  home  for  my  children.  And  I 
expect  after  I  am  dead  that  they  will  inherit 
and  enjoy  the  blessings  or  bear  the  evils  that 
may  be  brought  upon  them  by  the  legislation 
which  shall  be  had  here  and  elsewhere.  Now 
I  ask  for  myself  equal  rights,  and  I  ask  equal 
rights  for  my  children,  and  I  ask,  for  the  gen- 
erations which  shall  come  after  us,  the  same 
privileges  which  I  ask  for  my  children. 

This  IS  a  matter  which  should  not  be  lightly 
passed  over.  It  is  a  matter  which  will  tell 
for  weal  or  woe  on  the  generations  which 
shall  come  after  us.  When  we  shall  have 
passed  fix)m  earth  away,  the  influences  which 
we  exercise  even  here,  may  tell  to  the  weal  or 
woe  of  those  then  living.  It  is  something 
which  we  cannot  look  out  of  countenance. 
It  is  something  which  we  have  got  to  meet, 
and  our  constituents  demand  that  we  shall 
stand  up  for  the  right.  The  rising  genera- 
tion demands  it  of  us ;  yea,  the  God  that  rules 
in  the  armies  of  the  nations  demands  it 
of  us. 


Mr.;PEKKINS.     As  I  had  not  yesterday 


an  opportunity  to^explainlmy  position,  I  pro- 
pose now  to  say  a  word  in  defence  of  the 
course  I  have  taken  and  expect  to  take.  It 
was  pretty  freely  charged  yesterday  that  we 
were  afi^d  to  leave  this  question  to  the  peo- 
ple. I  wish  it  distinctly  understood  that  I 
have  no  such  fear.  I  want  it  understood  fur- 
ther, that  I  am  in  &vor  of  this  amendment 
both  upon  principle  and  policy.  And  in  what 
I  say  I  do  not  imdertake  to  combat  the  idea 
that  a  prejudice  exists  against  the  negro  race, 
or  that  it  exists  to  a  greater  extent  in  the 
northern  portion  of  the  United  States  than  in 
any  other  country  on  the  civilized  globe.  And 
gentlemen  tell  us  with  a  great  deal  of  as- 
surance that  it  is  an  inborn  and  natviral  pre- 
judice— a  prejudice  against  color;  a  prejudice, 
native  to  thehimian  heart.  Well  I  know  that 
it  is  very  deep  seated,  and  at  first  blush  it 
would  appear,  that  they  are  right  in  the  as- 
sertion. But  I  deny  that  it  is  bom  in  the 
heart  of  any  man.  This  truth  is  illustrated 
by  the  manner  in  which  children  of  both 
races,  play  together  in  the  earlier  years  of  in- 
fency.  This  prejudice  is  not  developed  until 
they  are  taught  that  there  is  a  social  inequal- 
ity. Still  I  am  willing  to  take  things  as  they 
exist,  and  I  know  that  this  prejudice  cannot 
be  very  well  eradicated  at  the  present  time. 
I  know  it  is  difficult  to  get  around  it,  and  I 
am  disposed  myself  to  imbibing  more  or  less 
of  that  feeling.  I  do  not  pretend  that  I  should 
like  to  ask  a  negro  into  my  family,  and  adopt 
him  as  a  brother,  but  I  know,  after  all,  that 
the  prejudice  which  I  do  entertain  is  a  most 
miserable  and  contemptible  thing,  and  ought 
to  have  no  existence  in  my  bosom.  And 
when  I  come  to  vote  upon  any  great  ques- 
tion of  humanity,  in  which  that  class  are  in- 
terested, I  do  not  mean  to  be  governed  by 
those  feelings. 

The  people  are  not  prepared  for  equal  suf- 
fi:^ge,  and  I  apprehend  if  they  are  not  pre- 
pared for  it  at  this  time,  they  never  well  be  pre- 
pared for  it,  unless  those  who  assume  to  be 
the  leaders  of  the  multitude  prepare  them. 
Somebody  has  to  take  the  step  in  advance.  I 
think  our  steps  in  that  direction  have  retro- 
graded very  much  since  the  formation  of  the 
Constitution  of  the  United  States,  and  the 
Constitutions  of  Vermont,  Massachusetts  and 
New  Hampshire.     I  think  then  the  people 


373 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Fbiday,  ^Iugust  7. 


were  prepared  for  equal  suffrage.  Well  if  they 
were  prepared  for  it  then,  why  not  now  ?  It 
is  because  those  who  assume  to  be  the  leaders 
of  the  multitude  are  demagogues,  and  have 
introduced  a  species  of  demagoguism  which  is 
contemptible.  Every  year  the  public  senti- 
ment is  growing  more  and  more  vitiated  in 
regard  to  this  matter.  Now  I  do  not  like  to 
hear  gentlemen  say  that  the  public  mind  is 
not  prepared  now,  when  no  effort  has  been 
made  by  those  gentlemen  to  reform  and  puri- 
fy the  public  sentiment  in  regard  to  this  mat- 
ter. I  say  the  public  mind  is  as  well  prepared 
now  as  it  ever  has  been  unless  vitiated  by 
this  species  of  demagoguism  which  is  incorpo- 
rated into  all  the  Constitutions  which  have 
lately  been  framed.  Let  us  take  a  step  in 
advance,  and  let  us  not  say  that  the  people  of 
Minnesota  are  not  prepared  for  it,  and  that 
they  have  retrograded,  and  are  not  willing  to 
come  up  to  the  support  of  the  Declaration  of 
Independence.  If  they  are  not  prepared,  let 
us  take  a  step  to  educate  them.  I  do  not  as- 
sume however  that  they  are  not  prepared.  I 
say  let  every  member  of  this  Convention  go 
home  to  his  constituents  and  talk  this  matter 
over,  not  as  demagogues,  but  in  the  sincerity 
of  their  hearts,  and  I  tell  you  that  the  peo- 
ple will  Usten  to  you,  and  will  see  the  reason- 
ableness of  this  thing.  But  as  long  as  we 
hold  back  and  are  not  willing  to  take  the  strife 
in  advance,  you  may  be  pretty  sure  that  the 
people  will  not  advance. 

But  we  were  told  yesterday  that  our  argu- 
ments proved  too  much,  because  the  Declara- 
tion of  Independence  included  women  as  well 
as  men,  and  that  in  order  to  be  consistent  we 
should  also  incorporate  into  the  Constitution  a 
clause  granting  the  right  of  suffrage  to  women. 
Now  I  am  not  inclined  to  be  drawn  into  a  dis- 
cussion of  the  subject  of  women's  rights,  as 
that  is  not  legitimately  before  the  Convention. 
But  I  think  I  might  answer  the  question  in 
brief,  and  I  will  take  his  own  argument  against 
granting  equal  suffrage  to  the  African  race. 
The  Almighty  has  made  a  distinetion  between 
man  and  woman,  which  it  will  be  very  diffi- 
cult, if  not  impossible  to  eradicate.  Now  if 
it  is  an  argument  to  be  thrown  into  our  faces, 
when  we  talk  about  equal  suffrage,  that  the 
Almighty  has  made  a  distinction,  I  hope  gen- 
tlemen will  not  offer  that  argument  again  un- 
less they  can  show  by  some  process  of  logic, 


that,  tf  a  distinction  has  been  made,  it  is  a 
justification  for  a  superior  race  subjecting  and 
submitting  an  inferior  one. 

Now  as  a  matter  of  principle,  I  am  in  favor 
of  equal  suffrage.  I  am  in  favor  of  it  also, 
from  the  fact  that  when  I  belong  to  a  party, 
and  am  associated  with  that  party  in  opposition 
to  another,  I  always  want  a  principle  to  fight 
for.  I  do  not  want  to  fight  for  a  technicality, 
a  shadow,  a  straw.  Gentlemen  well  asked,  yes- 
terday, what  we  were  fighting  for  in  this  Con- 
vention ;  what  the  contest  in  the  late  canvass 
Was  about,  and  what  distinction  there  was  be- 
tween the  Democratic  and  the  Republican  par- 
ties, so  far  as  State  politics  were  concerned. 
What  was  the  answer  ?  Instead  of  meeting 
the  question  fairly,  and  stating  what  the  dif- 
ference was,  gentlemen  got  up  and  said,  we 
ignore  the  question  of  woman's  rights ;  we 
ignore  the  question  of  temperance ;  we  ig- 
nore the  question  of  suffrage.  That  was  the 
response  made  every  time  to  the  question. 
Well  why  were  gentlemen  disposed  to  dodge 
that  question  ?  I  ask  gentlemen  to  point  out 
any  distinction  between  the  Republican  and 
the  Democratic  parties,  so  far  as  the  late  can- 
vass was  concerned.  Where,  in  the  name  of 
Heaven,  is  the  difference  between  the  two? 
So  far  as  anything  I  can  see,  I  would  just  as 
soon  be  a  Democrat  as  a  Republican — that  is, 
so  far  as  State  politics  are  concerned. 

We  had  a  very  hotly  contested  election. 
At  first,  it  was  supposed  that  the  Democrats 
had  won  the  victory,  but  afterwards,  as  the 
news  from  Southern  Minnesota  came  in,  it 
was  discovered  that  she  had  sent  an  almost 
unbroken  phalanx  of  Republicans  to  this  Con- 
vention ;  and  what  rejoicing  there  was  all  over 
the  country !  What  was  that  rejoicing  for  V 
Why,  that  they  had  sent  Republicans  instead 
of  Democrats  to  this  Convention.  That  was 
all  the  difference  between  the  two.  Gentle- 
men deny  that  the  suffrage  question  had  any- 
thing whatever  to  do  with  it.  They  deny  it, 
and  have  the  effrontery  to  tell  us — it  looks  to 
me  like  effrontery— that  the  question  of  equal 
suffrage  never  was  a  principle  of  the  Republican 
party,  and  that  that  party  had  only  one  idea 
and  that  was  the  restriction  of  slavery,  and 
the  keeping  it  out  of  the  Territories. 

Now,  in  the  late  canvass,  we  sent  delegates 
here  to  frame  a  Constitution  for  the  State  of 
Minnesota.    We  did  not  send  delegates  here 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Fridat,  August  7. 


378 


to  elect  United  States  Senators  or  represen- 
tatives to  Congress,  and  the  election,  if  it  had 
any,  had  a  very  remote  connection  with  na- 
national  politics.     We  came  up  here  and  con- 
sidered it  of  great  importance,  that  vre  should 
have  the   control  of  tliis  Convention.     We 
caucussed  about  it  before  the  assembling  Of 
the  Convention.     It  was  so  all  important  that 
we  should  have  the  control  of  this  Conven- 
tion— as  we  certainly  were  entitled  to  it — 
that  we  met  in  the  coimcil  chamber,  and  it  is 
undeniable,   that  there  we  stayed  until  the 
next  morning,  and  in  the  morning,  when  the 
doors  were  opened  we  came  in  here.   Although 
we  received  a  proposition  from  the  Democratic 
party  not  to  organize  until  twelve  o'clock,  m., 
yet  we  were  not  caught  by  any  lures,  and 
keeping  it  in  mind  that  it  was  very  important 
that  we  should  have  the  control  of  this  Con- 
"  ntion,  we  stayed  here,  and  by  vigilance  and 
Qance  only,  we  got  the  control.     And  this 
•mphatically  the  Republican  Convention,  or 
s  considered  by  the  country  at  large  as  a 
nubhcan  Convention.     I  do  not  know  a 
'  in  the  Convention  who  would  acknowl- 
'liraself  a  Democrat. 
'    vhat  was  all  this  fuss  for  ?    Did  we 
'   .0  elect  United  States   Senators  or 
entatives  to  Congress  ?    Not  at  all.    I 
,^yose  we  wished  to  form  a  Constitution 
which  should  be  Republican  in  its  character, 
and  we  claimed  that  there  was  a  distinction 
between  us  and  the  Democratic  party.    And 
now  at  this  late  hoiu*,  when  gentlemen  are 
called  upon  to  point  out  the  difference,  they 
dodge  the  question,  and  no  attempt  whatever 
is  made  to  answer  it.     And  I  apprehend  that 
no  gentleman  can  point  out  the  distinction. 
They  say  we  have  incorporated  into   our 
creed  a  portion  of  the  Declaration  of  Inde- 
pendence.    Very  good.     So  have  the  Demo- 
crats.    We  say  we  are  grateful  to  God  for 
our  civil  and  religious  liberties.     I  have  no 
doubt  the  Democrats  will  mouth  that  quite  as 
lightly  as  we  have  done  it.     Are  we  any 
ahead  of  the  Democrats  in  that  respect? 
Not  a  whit.     I  have  no  doubt  the  Democrats 
will  say  that  "  all  men  are  bom  equally  free 
"  and  independent ; "  because  it  is  specious. 
They  will  say  that  "  they  are  entitled  to  cer- 
"  tain  inalienable  rights,  among  which  are  life, 
"  liberty  and  the  pursuit  of  happiness,"  and 
that  "  to  secure  these  rights  governments  are 


"instituted  among  men,  deriving  their  just 
'•  powers  from  the  consent  of  the  governed." 
I  would  here  inquire  if  that  is  a  plank  in  the 
Republican  platform — that  to  seciure  these 
rights  governments  are  instituted  among  men, 
deriving  their  just  powers  from  the  consent 
of  the  governed  ?  Does  that  squint  towards 
imiversal  suffrage  ?  Gentlemen  say  the  Dec- 
laration of  Indepepdence  has  nothing  to  do 
with  it.  What  does  that  clause  look  like. 
It  looks  to  me  as  if  it  meant  that  all  those 
bom  and  living  under  the  government  of  the 
United  States,  and  imder  the  control  of  it« 
laws  should  have  a  hand  in  making  those 
laws.  It  looks  like  Republicanism.  Now 
who  will  say,  after  reading  that  clause  taken 
from  the  Declaration  of  Independence,  that  it 
has  nothing  to  do  with  the  question  of  suf- 
frage, and  is  not  a  principle  in  the  Republican 
platform  ? 

Well,  I  say  I  have  no  doubt  the  Democrats 
will  mouth  those  things  just  as  strongly  as 
we  do.  There  is  also  another  ^clause  which 
they  will  incorporate  into  their  Constitution, 
for  there  Ls  not  a  Constitution  but  what  con- 
tains it.  "  There  shall  be  no  slavery  or  in- 
"  volimtary  servitude  in  this  State,  except  for 
"  punishment  of  crime,  Jbc."  Does  any  gen- 
tleman doubt  that  the  Democrats  will  have 
that  clause  in  their  Bill  of  Rights  ?  Certainly 
not. 

Well  then  what  is  the  distinction  ;  where  is 
the  difference  between  the  two  Constitutions  ? 
Gentlemen  cannot  point  out  any  difference  at 
all,  and  so  far  as  they  can  see,  it  is  just  as 
well  so  far  as  the  Constitution  is  concemed, 
and  so  far  as  the  party  in  this  Territory  is 
concemed,  in  reference  to  State  poUtics,  to  be 
a  Democrat  as  a  Republican.  Now,  I  thought 
when  I  was  passing  through  the  canvass  that 
there  was  some  principle  at  stake.  But  I  am 
informed  by  those  who  are  good  Republicans 
that  there  is  no  principle  at  stake;  or  if  there 
is,  nobody  can  tell  what  it  is.  If  that  is  so 
I  am  in  favor  of  taking  one  step  in  advance 
of  the  Democratic  party  before  our  Constitu- 
tion is  sent  out  to  the  Republicans  of  Minne- 
sota. What  will  the  Republicans  of  Minne- 
sota care  about  technicalities,  or  the  rules  of 
this  Convention,  or  Jefferson's  Manual  ?  Do 
you  suppose  they  will  stop  to  investigate  par- 
liamentary rules  to  see  whether  the  Republi- 
cans did  actually  get  the  control  of  the  Con- 


374 


:  MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Fbidat,  August  7. 


vention  or  not,  or  whether  it  is  really  the  Re- 
publican Convention  or  not  ?  The  sentiment 
of  the  Territory  will  be  divided,  and  many 
Repubhcans  will  tell  you  that  they  are  doubt- 
ful and  that  they  do  not  know  whether  the 
Democrats  or  Republicans  are  right,  and  fur- 
thermore they  will  tell  you  they  do  not  care. 
Now  how  are  you  going  before  the  Republi- 
cans of  the  Territory,  if  you  have  not  princi- 
ples to  discuss  ?  All  you  have  to  lean  upon 
is  parliamentary  law.  What  are  you  going 
to  tell  them  ?  Suppose  the  Democrats  get  all 
these  Republican  clauses  into  their  Constitu- 
tion, and  make  as  good  a  judiciary  and  exec- 
utive department  as  you  do,  how  are  you 
going  to  advocate  your  Constitution  above 
theirs,  and  show  the  people  that  it  is,  in  any 
respect  more  Republican  than  the  other  ?  It 
seems  to  me  that  my  mouth  would  be  closed, 
and  that  I  should  have  no  principle  whatever 
to  rest  upon.  Now  if  I  am  identified  with 
any  party  whatever,  I  want  a  principle  to 
fight  upon,  and  when  I  go  before  the  people, 
I  want  to  show  them  that  there  is  a  principle 
at  stake.  But  the  way  this  Convention  pro- 
poses to  arrange  the  matter,  there  is  no  prin- 
ciple whatever,  and  it  will  be  the  ruin  of  the 
Republican  party  in  Minnesota. 

M.  GALBRAITH.  I  had  thought  that  af- 
ter a  question  had  been  once  introduced  into 
this  body,  and  full  privilege  given  for  discuss- 
ing it,  that  would  end  the  matter.  But  I  am 
mistaken,  and  some  of  the  very  gentlemen 
who  have  fired  this  bomb-shell  upon  us  to- 
day, have  heretofore  advocated  that  very  iden- 
tical doctrine ;  and  why  bring  up  the  same 
question  again  after  it  has  been  once  decided 
by  a  two-third  vote  of  the  members  of  this 
Convention  ?  But  it  has  been  sprung  upon 
ug,  and  I  wish  not  to  go  into  an  argument 
upon  it,  but  only  to  say  that  the  persistent 
misrepresentation  of  men's  views,  comes  with 
a  very  ill  grace  from  those  who  defend  the 
absolute  right  as  the  highest  expediency. 
When  a  man  says  anything  upon  this  floor, 
and  says  it  in  good  faith,  it  should  be  taken 
for  granted,  by  others,  that  he  does  not  say 
it  as  a  demagogue  and  that  he  is  lying.  Gen- 
tlemen should  be  careful  how  they  throw  out 
these  misrepresentations,  either  by  innuendo 
or  otherwise.  The  gentleman  who  has  spoken 
here  to-day  so  freely  about  equal  rights — ab- 
solute and  inalienable  rights — has  thrown  out 


by  innuendo,  that  in  my  few  remarks,  yes- 
terday, I  advocated  woman's  rights,  and  then 
he  built  up  a  man  of  straw  that  he  might 
knock  it  down.  lie  represents  me  as  advo- 
cating woman's  right  to  vote.  I  submit  that 
I  advocated  no  such  thing.  I  put  it  upon 
the  record  that  I  did  not. 

Mr.  PERKINS.     AUow  me  to  explain. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.     I  hope  you  will. 

Mr.  PERKINS.  I  did  not  represent  the 
gentleman  as  advocating  woman's  rights,  and 
denied  being  an  advocate  of  them  myself.  I 
only  used  the  gentleman's  argument,  against 
the  negro  race,  and  turned  it  against  a  wo- 
man's right  to  vote. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  The  argument  I  used 
was  this :  that  there  was  a  distinction  be- 
tween the  white  and  the  black  man — a  dis- 
tinction impressed  by  nature — and  that  if 
such  distinction  should  make  no  difierence 
between  the  rights  or  privileges  of  persons, 
then  the  gentlemen,  to  be  consistent  with 
themselves,  should  bestow  the  right  of  suf- 
frage upon  women.  The  exact  language  of 
the  Declaration  of  Independence  is,  "  All  men 
are  created  equal."  Then  there  is  another 
principle  in  that  same  Declaration,  and  that 
is,  that  taxation  and  representation  are  inscp 
arable.  That  was  the  hinge  upon  which  the 
whole  revolution  turned. 

Mr.  HAYDEN.     Go  on  a  little  further. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.     How  far? 

Mr.  HAYDEN.  And  that  they  "are  en- 
"  dowed  by  their  Creator  with  certain  inalien- 
"  able  rights,  &c." 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  Upon  those  two  prin- 
ciples it  is  advocated  here,  that  all  men  should 
vote.  Upon  those  grounds  is  universal  suf- 
fi-age  advocated,  and  no  other.  Because  all 
men  are  created  equal,  and  because,  in  a  gov- 
enmient,  taxation  and  representation  go  to- 
gether, it  is  taken  as  a  self-evident  proposition 
that  every  person  who  is  created,  and  every 
person  who  pays  taxes,  should  have  a  voice 
in  the  government.  Now  no  man,  who  can 
see  the  consequences  of  an  argument,  but 
must  say  that  those  gentlemen  are  forced  to 
admit,  from  their  own  premises,  that  a  woman 
must  also  vote.  The  conclusion  is  irresisti- 
ble, and  more  irresistible  from  the  fact  that 
all  females  in  the  land  are  liable  to  pay  taxes 
to  the  government  for  their  property.  Now 
I  wish  gentlemen  to  be  consistent,  and  they 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Fkidat,  August  7. 


375 


who  advocate  universal  suflFrage,  relying  upon 
the  Declaration  of  Independence,  must  include 
the  whole  population  of  the  country  without 
distinction  of  color  or  sex — for  to  such  a  re- 
sult does  their  argument  lead  them.  They 
talk  to  us  about  advocating  a  distinction  be- 
tween the  races.  It  is  not  the  color  particu- 
larly that  we  talk  abo.ut.  There  is  a  distinc- 
tion between  the  races  as  fixed  as  the  eternal 
hills,  and  gentlemen  may  talk  as  much  as  they 
please,  there  stands  the  palpable  fact  before 
their  eyes.  It  is  as  palpable  as  the  noon  day 
sun.  I  appeal  to  gentlemen  if  it  is  not  so  ? 
But  we  create  public  sentiment,  say  gentle- 
men. We  create  public  sentiment  upon  this 
subject !  As  well,  we  go  to  work  and  turn 
the  Niagara  to  flow  its  mighty  waters  up- 
wards !  Talk  of  creating  public  sentiment ! 
We  may  endeavor  to  correct  that  sentiment, 
if  possible.  If  those  gentlemen  who  wish 
this  sentiment  corrected,  can  correct  it,  well 
and  good. 

The  arguments  gentlemen  have  used  are 
such  that  to  be  consistent,  they  should,  as  a 
matter  of  course,  be  the  advocates  of  wo- 
man's rights.  I  said  then,  and  I  say  now,  I 
should  vote  against  this  amendment^  for  the 
good  reason  that  I  believe  that  the  African,  as  a 
class,  are  not  qualified  to  be  voters.  I  do  so 
honestly  and  fearlessly. 

But  say  gentlemen,  if  the  Democrats  make 
a  Constitution  just  like  ours,  there  will  be  no 
distinction  between  the  parties.  I  make  no 
stump  speech  in  this  Convention  about  this 
being  a  Repubhcan  or  a  Democratic  Constitu- 
tion. In  regard  to  the  fundamental  laws  of 
the  Constitution,  we  are  Democrats  and  Re- 
pubUcans;  we  are  all  Americans,  and  may 
the  sun  of  heaven  cease  to  shine  upon  this, 
or  any  other  Convention,  when  it  can  be  said 
that  upon  the  fimdamental  principles  of  our 
Constitutions  we  difier ;  and  may  it  cease  to 
shine  upon  Repubhcan  America  when  we 
shall  not  all  imite  upon  the  great  principle 
which  underhes  our  Constitution,  and  the  flag 
of  our  common  coimtry.  Upon  questions  of 
national  and  local  policy  we  may  difier,  but 
upon  the  grand  fundamental  principles  of 
government  we  agree ;  and  if  the  Republican 
party  and  the  Democratic  party  should  merge 
their  labors  into  one  Constitution  here,  God 
speed  the  day.  If  this  is  a  plank  in  the  Re- 
publican platform,  let  us  difier  about  it.    Gen- 


tlemen say  that  it  is.  I  care  not  whether  it 
be  or  not.  I  ask  that  question  not  here.  I 
vote  upon  this  question  fix)m  my  own  convic- 
tions of  right,  and  other  gentlemen  vote  upon 
it  according  to  their  convictions  of  right.  But 
I  say  again,  that  to  bestow  equal  suffrage 
upon  the  negro  race,  without  recognising  their 
social  equality  in  community,  is  more  of  an 
injury  than  a  good. 

Mr.  McKUNE.  I  move  to  lay  the  amend- 
ment to  the  substitute  on  the  table. 

Mr.  HAYDEN  demanded  the  yeas  and 
nays  upon  laying  the  amendment  on  the 
table. 

The  yeas  and  nays  were  ordered,  and  the 
question  being  taken,  it  was  decided  in  the 
negative,  yeas  nine,  nays  thirty-eight,  as 
follows : 

Teas — Messrs.  Foster,  King  McKune,  Morgan, 
Mills,  Smith,  Thompson,  "Watson  and  Willson. 

^'ayg — Messrs.  Aldrich,  Anderson,  Ayer,  Bates, 
Bartholomew,  Cleghorn,  Colbnrn,  Coggswell,  Ce- 
derstam.  Coombs,  Davis,  Duley,  Dickerson, 
Eschlie,  Folsom,  Gerrish,  Hall,  Havden,  Harding, 
Hudson,  Hanson,  HoUey,  Lyle,  Mantor,  3IcCann, 
McClure,  Messer,  Murphy,  Xorth,  Perkins,  Put- 
nam, Peckham,  Russell,  Sheldon,  Secombe, 
Vaughn,  Walker  and.  Mr.  President. 

So  the  Convention  refused  to  lay  the 
amendment  upon  the  table. 

Mr.  FOSTER.  I  trust  we  shall  now  come 
to  a  vote  upon  the  amendment  to  my  substi- 
tute— the  amendment  to  strike  out  the  word 
"  white,"  and  insert  "  citizens  of  the  United 
"  States  "—and  that  all  will  understand.that  it 
is  substantially  the  same  question  decided 
yesterday.  It  is,  after  all,  the  simple  question 
whether  the  word  white  shall,  or  shall  not  be 
in  the  Constitution.  I  voted  to  lay  it  upon 
the  table,  but  I  suppose  that  other  gentlemen 
voted  against  laying  it  upon  the  table,  prefer- 
ing  to  have  a  direct  vote  upon  it,  as  the  best 
policy.  This  question  has  been  sufBciently 
debated,  and  I  do  not  wish  to  discuss  it  any 
more. 

Mr.  NORTH.  One  word  before  the  vote 
is  taken  upon  this  amendment  and  substitute. 
I  did  not  intend  to  say  anything  more  upon 
the  question,  but  the  gentleman  from  Scott 
county  (Mr.  Galbbaith)  urges  very  strongly 
that  we  should  not  trample  upon  the  Consti- 
tution. Now  it  seems  to  me  that  the  substi- 
tute does  trample  upon  the  Constitution,  and 
that  is  my  objection  to  it,  and  to  my  mind  it 


876 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Friday,  August  7. 


is  a  very  strong  objection.  It  tramples  upon 
the  Constitution  by  cutting  off  a  very  large 
class  of  citizens  of  the  United  States  from 
voting  in  this  State.  If  it  is  adopted  in  its 
present  form,  there  are  thousands  upon  thou- 
sands of  citizens  of  the  United  States,  should 
they  come  to  this  State,  who  could  not  vote. 
Let  us  look  at  it  for  a  moment,  and  at  the 
same  time  take  into  account  the  fact  that  in 
New  York  and  other  States,  colored  persons 
are  citizens  of  the  United  States.  They  are 
entitled  to  vote  in  those  States  under  certain 
restrictions.  They  are  citizens  of  the  United 
States  to  all  intents  and  purposes,  and  have 
been  so  regarded.  Now  none  af  that  class  of 
citizens  of  the  United  States  are  permitted  to 
vote,  imder  this  substitute.  Mark  the 
language. 

"Every  white  male  person  of  the  age  of  twenty- 
one  years  and  upwards  (excepting  persons  under 
guardianship,  non  compos  mentis,  or  insane)  belong- 
ing to  either  the  following  classes,  &c.,  shall  be 
deemed  a  qualified  elector  at  such,  election,  viz : 
First — Citizens  of  the  United  States." 

— That  is  to  say,  citizens  of  the  United  States 
who  are  white  male  persons,  may  vote.  It 
does  not  go  the  full  length  of  saying  that 
every  citizen  of  the  United  States  may  vote. 
I  object  most  decidedly  to  having  our  Consti- 
tution trample  on  the  Constitution  of  the 
United  States,  and  upon  men  who  are  citizens 
.  under  that  Constitution.  lirevere  that  instru- 
ment, because  it  is  an  impartial  Constitution, 
and  knows  no  such  thing  as  complexion.  I 
am  in  favor  of  the  amendment  to  that  substi- 
tute, because  it  includes  all  citizens  of  the 
United  States  regardless  of  color. 

The  question  recurring  upon  the  amend- 
ment, Mr.  GALBRAITH  moved  a  call  of  the 
Convention. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to,  and  the  roll 
being  called,  the  following  members  failed  to 
answer  to  their  names ; 

Messrs.  Billings,  Bolles,  Butler,  Coe,  Kemp, 
Lowe,  Bobbins  and  Winell. 

Mr.  HARDING  moved  that  all  further 
proceedings  under  the  call  be  dispensed  with. 

The  motion  was  lost,  and  the  Sergeant-at- 
Arms  was  directed  to  report  the  absentees  in 
their  seats. 

After  an  interval  of  lialf  an  hour — 

Mr.  CLEGHORN  moved  to  reconsider  the 
vote  by  which  the  Convention  refused  to 


suspend  all  further  proceedings  under  the 
call. 

The  motion  to  reconsider  prevailed,  and 
then  all  further  proceedings  under  the  call 
were  dispensed  with. 

The  question  was  taken  on  the  amend- 
ment oiFered  by  Mr.  Hayden,  and  it  was 
decided  in  the  negative. 

Mr.  SECOMBE  moved  to  amend  the  sub- 
stitute by  striking  out  the  word  "  ten,"  and 
inserting  "  thirty,"  so  as  to  require  a  resi- 
dence of  ^thirty  ^days  in  the  town,  ward  or 
precinct. 

Mr.  FOSTER.  I  would  remark  that  per- 
haps it  would  be  better  not  to  put  in  any 
definite  time,  but  to  leave  it  with  the  Legisla- 
ture. "We  could  do  that  by  using  the  phrase- 
ology, "and  in  the  town,  ward  or  precinct,  as 
"  may  be  prescribed  by  law." 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  In  reply,  I  would  say 
that  if  we  do  not  insert  the  word,  the  Legis- 
lature will  have  no  power.  Leave  it  blank, 
and  it  is  the  absolute  right  of  those  who  have 
resided  [within  the  State  six  months,  to  vote. 

The  amendment  was  not  agreed  to. 

Mr.  MORGAN  moved  to  amend  the  substi- 
tute bji  inserting  after  the  word  "  birth,"  in 
the  first  line  of  the  second  subdivision,  the 
words  : 

"Who  has  resided  in  the  United  States  two 
years  next  preceeding  the  election  at  which  he 
may  claim  the  right  to  vote." 

The  amendment  was  agreed  to. 

Mr.   FOSTER.      I  desire   to  modify  the 
phraseology  of  the  first  subdivision  of  • 
substitute.     I  wish  to  insert  in  place  of 
zen  of  the  United  States,"  the  words — 

"Persons,  not  aliens, born  in  the  United  ^  . 
and  persons  of  foreign  birth,  who  have  bee  :■. 
citizens  of  the  United  States,  according  to  tii,' 
laws  thereof." 

The  reason  why  I  desire  to  make  that  alto- 
ration  is,  to  meet  a  diificulty  which  would 
exist  in  the  phraseology,  if  the  word  "  white  " 
should  bo  stricken  out.  If  the  phraseology 
stands  as  it  is  now,  and  that  word  be  stricken 
out,  it  still  leaves  it  a  mooted  question  before 
the  courts,  who  arc  citizens  of  the  United 
States,  and  the  will  of  the  people  might  be 
defeated  through  the  judiciary.  If  we  go  to 
tlie  trouble  of  having  the  'people  vote  upon 
the  question,  it  is  not  worth  while  to  leave  it 
an  open  (question  at  all.  I  oQcr  it  as  an 
amendment. 


MINNESOTA  COXYENTIOX  DEBATES— Fbidat,  Augcst  7. 


377 


The  amendment  was  rejected. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  move  to  strike  out  the 
feecond  and  third  subdivisions  of  the  substi- 
tute, and  insert  the  following  : 

"Second,  Every  person  who  has  been  an  inhabi- 
tant of  the  United  States  (or  two  years  next  pre- 
ceding the  election  at  which  he  shall  claim  the 
right  to  rote,  shall  be  a  qualified  elector ; 

"  Provide  always,  Xo  alien  by  birth,  who  is  not 
a  citizen  of  the  United  States,  shall  have  the  right 
to  vote  at  any  election,  unless  he  shall  exhibit  to 
the  proper  officer  a  certificate  showing  that  he  has 
declared  bis  intention  to  become  a  citizen  of  the 
United  States  in  conformity  with  the  laws  of  the 
United  States  on  the  subject  of  naturalization ; 
and, 

"  ProvOid further,  That  no  person  shall  vote  at 
any  election,  unless  he  shall  have  complied  with 
the  requirements  of  the  Registry  Act  hereafter 
provided  for." 

I  desire  that  the  article  upon  the  Elective 
Franchise  shall  be  certain  and  definite  in  re- 
gard to  the  question  of  negro  sufiFrage.  I  de- 
sire that  we  should  insert  such  a  provision  in 
the  article  that  the  people  may  know  what  it 
means  when  they  come  to  vote  upon  it.  If 
the  provision  should  remain  as  it  now  is  in 
the  substitute,  and  if  the  people  of  the  Terri- 
tory of  Minnesota  who  propose  to  form  a 
State,  should  decide  by  a  majority  vote  to 
strike  out  the  word  "  white,"  it  would  still  be 
left  an  open  question — whether  or  not,  ne- 
groes were  citizens  of  this  State,  for  the  rea- 
son that  the  only  provision  for  any  class  of 
persons  other  than  those  of  foreign  birth,  is 
that  they  shall  be  citizens  of  the  United 
States.  As  the  substitute  now  stands,  there 
are  but  three  classes  of  persons  who  are  ac- 
corded the  nght  of  suffrage :  first,  citizens  of 
the  United  States  ;  second,  persons  of  foreign 
birth,  who  have  declared  their  intentions  to 
become  citizens  of  the  United  States ;  and 
third,  half-breeds,  who  have  adopted  the  hab- 
its of  civilization.  Now  I  say,  should  the 
peonle  of  Minnesota  decide,  by  the  vote 
which  they  will  be  called  upon  to  give  upon 
this  question,  to  strike  out  the  word  "  white," 
they  would  not,  in  so  doing,  surely  accom- 
plish the  object  they  would  have  in  view  in 
voting  to  do  so.  It  would  still  be  left  to  the 
decisions  of  the  Supreme  Court  of  the  United 
States,  or  the  Supreme  Court  of  the  State  of 
Minnesota,  (the  decision  of  the  Supreme 
Court  of  the  United  States  being  given,  the 
Supreme  Court  of  the  State  would  be  bound 
48 


by  it,)  to  decide  whether  colored  persons  were 
or  were  not  citizens  of  the  United  States,  and 
therefore  citizens  or  not  citizens  of  the  State 
of  Minnesota  under  the  provisions  of  a  Con- 
stitution like  those  in  the  substitute.  I  there- 
fore desire  that  some  amendment  may  be 
made  so  that  the  matter  may  be  put  in  a  de- 
finite form,  and  that  the  people,  when  they 
vote  to  strike  out  the  word  "  white,"  may  be 
assured  in  so  doing,  that  they  have  accorded 
to  colored  persons  the  right  of  suflFrage  and 
citizenship  in  this  State. 

Now  if  the  amendment  I  have  ofiFered  should 
be  adopted,  there  would  be  three  classes  of 
persons  who  would  be  entitled  to  the  right  of 
sufiFrage  :  first,  citizens  of  the  United  States ; 
second,  foreign  persons,  who  had  resided  in 
the  United  States  two  years,  and  had  declared 
their  intentions  to  become  citizens  of  the 
United  States ;  third,  persons  who  had  been 
inhabitants  of  the  United  States  for  two  years 
and  who  were  not  aliens,  although  they  might 
not  be,  by  the  decisions  of  the  Courts,  citi- 
zens. In  other  words,  if  the  Courts  should 
decide  that  negroes  were  not  citizens  of  the 
United  States,  they,  not  being  aliens,  would 
be  citizens  of  the  State  of  Minnesota.  I 
hope,  therefore,  the  amendment  will  prevail 
upon  that  point. 

In  the  second  place,  it  is  there  provided  that 
no  person  shall  be  allowed  to  vote  unless  he 
shall  have  complied  with  the  terms  of  the  Reg- 
istry Act,  which,  it  is  to  be  presmned,  we  are 
going  to  provide  for  in  a  subsequent  section. 
But  if  there  be  members  of  this  Convention 
who  are  in  favor  of  the  first  part  of  the  amend- 
ment, and  yet  not  disposed  to  restrict  the 
right  to  vote  to  those  who  have  had  their 
names  registered,  an  amendment  can  be  made 
to  that  eficct. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  do  not  know  that  I  un- 
derstand the  gentleman,  and  I  desire  to  ask 
him  if  he  is  understood  to  say  that  if  a  case 
should  come  before  the  Supreme  Court  of  the 
State,  involving  the  right  to  citizenship  of 
any  person,  or  any  class  of  persons,  whom 
the  Supreme  Court  of  the  United  States  have 
decided  not  to  be  citizens,  the  Supreme  Court 
of  the  State  would  be  obhged  to  render  a  de- 
cision in  accordance  with  the  Supreme  Court 
of  the  United  States  ? 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  If  the  Supreme  Court  of 
the  United  States  should  decide  that  negroes 


878 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Fbidat,   August  7. 


are  not  citizens  of  the  United  States,  the  Su- 
preme Court  of  the  State  would  be  bound  by 
that  decision,  and  negroes  would  not,  under 
our  Constitution — provided  this  substitute  is 
adopted  as  it  is — be  citizens  of  this  State. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  did  not  then  misun- 
derstand the  gentleman.  I  first  understand 
him,  however,  to  say  that  the  Supreme  Court 
have  decided  that  Africans  are  not  citizens  of 
the  United  States, 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  did  not  say  so,  and  I 
do  not  think  they  did. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  Then  the  gentleman  ba- 
ses his  amendment  on  the  presumption  that 
they  will  so  decide.  I  am  not  willing  to  pre- 
sume any  such  thing.  If  they  have  not  been, 
I  will  not  presume  that  they  will  be,  guilty  of 
any  such  inconsistency,  and  I  will  not  imply 
it  by  providing  against  any  such  contingency. 

Mr,  FOSTER.  The  potat  the  gentleman 
argues  is  the  very  one  which  was  just  decided 
against  by  the  Convention  on  the  vote  upon 
the  amendment,  which  I  myself  offered  to  the 
substitute.  The  Convention  decided  that 
they  would  not  make  any  alteration  in  that 
respect.  Consequently,  so  far  as  tliat  point 
is  concerned,  it  is  settled,  and  the  gentleman's 
amendment  is  but  bringing  up  the  question 
again. 

There  is  still  another  point  which  that 
amendment  reaches,  and  to  which  I  wish  to 
call  the  attention  of  the  Convention.  It  ex- 
cludes all  civilized  persons  of  Indian  descent, 
not  members  of  any  tribe.  We  had  some 
talk  about  that  yesterday.  I  trust  we  shall 
be  disposed  to  do  good  so  far  as  we  can,  and 
that  we  will  not  attempt  to  disfranchise  a  large 
body  of  citizens  who  are  now  voters.  This 
does  not  present  the  question  of  admitting 
any  class  to  vote,  who  have  not  heretofore  en- 
joyed that  privilege,  but  it  presents  the  ques- 
tion of  absolutely  depriving,  of  that  right  in 
future,  a  class  who  have  heretofore  enjoyed 
it.  I  think  we  should  not  do  that,  and  I 
trust  the  amendment  will  not  prevail  for  that 
reason. 

Mr,  SECOMBE.  1  would  state,  in  reply  to 
the  remarks  of  the  gentleman  from  Fillmore, 
(Mr,  CoLBUttN,)  that  although  I  do  not  believe 
that  the  Supreme  Court  of  the  United  States 
have  decided  that  negroes  are  not  citizens,  yet 
I  believe  that  they  failed  to  decide  that  ques- 
tioa,  for  the  simple  reason  that  the  question 


was  not  before  them  ;  that  they  attempted  to 
decide  it,  and  that  so  far  as  the  expression 
of  their  opinions  in  concerned,  they  did  de- 
cide it.  But  from  the  fact  that  the  question 
did  not  come  before  them — they  themselves 
deciding  that  it  did  not — the  case  went  off 
upon  the  simple  point  that  they  had  not  ju- 
risdiction of  the  case  ;  or,  in  other  words,  that 
the  black  man  who  had  been  a  slave  was  not 
a  citizen  of  the  United  States  within  the 
meaning  of  certain  acts  of  Congress,  to  the 
extent  that  he  might  bring  a  suit  in  the  Uni- 
ted States  Court,  and,  therefore,  they  had  not 
jurisdiction  of  the  case.  That  was  the  full 
extent  to  which  the  decision  of  the  Court 
went.  But  at  the  same  time,  a  majority  of 
the  Judges  of  that  Court  did  express  an  opin- 
ion— extra-judicially  to  be  sure — which  would 
go  to  the  extent  that  a  black  man  is  not  a  cit- 
izen of  the  United  States,  and  could  not  be. 
I  am  satisfied  that  with  the  present  construc- 
tion of  that  Court,  the  question  would  be  de- 
cided in  that  manner.  Therefore,  I  desire 
that  we  shall  free  the  Constitution  which  we 
are  about  to  present  to  the  people  from  that 
doubt,  that  they  may  know,  when  they  vote 
to  strike  out  the  word  "  white,"  that  they  do 
vote  absolutely  and  positively  that  blacks  may 
vote. 

Mr.  McCLURE.  I  had  supposed  that  the 
Supreme  Court  had  made  a  pretty  direct  de- 
cision upon  that  very  point.  I  believe  that 
the  judges  in  the  Missouri  court  decided  not 
to  entertain  the  suit,  and  that  they  had  not 
any  jurisdiction,  from  the  fact  that'  the  black 
man  was  not  a  citizen  of  the  United  States. 
I  believe  the  Supreme  Court  of  the  United 
States  affirmed  that  decision,  and  in  affirm- 
ing it,  decided  that  the  negro  could  not  be  a 
citizen  of  the  United  States.  Now  so  far  as 
the  binding  force  and  effect  of  that  decision 
is  concerned,  it  would  go  this  far ;  tlie  judges  of 
the  Supreme  Court  of  Minnesota,  being  Dem- 
ocrats, would  feel  themselves  bound  by  that  ■ 
decision,  because  it  would  be  carrying  out  the 
views  of  their  party.  If  the  judges  were  Repub- 
licans they  would  treat  the  decision  of  that 
court  as  they  ought  to,  and  consider  it  no 
more  binding  upon  them  than  it  is  binding 
upon  the  Supreme  Court  of  the  United  States. 
1  hold  that  the  decision  of  the  Supreme  Court 
upon  that  point  would  be  no  more  binding 
upon  the  Supreme  Court  of  this  State,  than  a 


MINNESOTA  CON^YENTION  DEBATES— Feidat,  August  7. 


379 


decision  of  the  Supreme  Court  of  this  State 
would  be  binding  upon  them.  In  my  opinion 
then,  it  will  make  no  ditference  whether  you 
adopt  the  amendment  or  not,  for  the  court  if 
Democratic,  will  construe  the  Constitution  so 
as  to  favor  the  views  of  their  political  party. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  shaU  be  compeUed  to 
disagree  with  the  gentleman  upon  the  facts  of 
the  case,  and  I  will  refer  him  to  the  decision 
of  the  Circuit  Court  of  the  United  States,  for 
Illinois,  composed  of  Judge  M'Lean  of  the 
Supreme  Court,  and  Judge  Drummond,  Cir- 
cuit Judge  of  Illinois ;  where  they  have  de- 
cided not  only  that  a  black  man  is  a  citizen  of 
the  United  States,  but  that  the  Supreme 
Court  of  the  United  States  in  the  Dred  Scott 
case  did  not  decide  to  the  contrary.  The 
ground  is  taken  distinctly  by  Judge  M'Lean, 
that  the  only  point  decided  was  this :  that  a 
negro  who  had  been  a  slave,  was  not  a  citizen 
of  the  United  States  within  the  meaning  of 
the  particular  act  of  Congress,  which  provided 
what  persons  might  bring  suits  in  the  United 
States  courts.  The  case  in  the  Circuit  Court 
of  Illinois  came  up  on  this  wise :  a  negro 
brought  a  suit  in  the  Circuit  Court  of  the 
United  States,  and  the  question  of  law  was 
raised  either  by  demurrer,  or  by  appeal  fitxii 
the  jurisdiction,  that  a  negro  could  not  bring 
an  action  in  the  United  States  Courts.  The 
point  of  law  was  overruled  in  the  Circuit 
Court  of  the  United  States  for  the  circuit  in 
which  Illinois  was  included. 

Mr.  McCLCRE.  I  wish  simply  to  say  that 
the  gentleman  does  not  correct  me  upon  that 
point.  I  say  it  is  the  understanding  of  the 
Democratic  party,  and  the  understanding  of 
a  majority  of  the  Supreme  Court  of  the 
United  States,  that  they  did  decide  that  ques- 
tion. I  am  not  going  to  take  issue  upon  what 
the  particular  views  of  Judge  M'Lean  mayor 
may  not  be  or  what  he  may  have  decided.  I 
say  that  the  court  have  decided  that  question, 
and  that  the  Democratic  party  holds  that  it 
is  so  decided.  I  am  arguing  about  matters  as 
they  are  now,  and  not  as  we  might  wish  them 
to  be. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  I  have  been  remark- 
ably quiet  for  me,  to  say  the  least  of  it  dur- 
ing this  discussion,  (laughter,)  and  you  must 
give  me  credit  to  that  extent,  (a  voice,  "  you 
shall  have  it")  And  what  I  have  to  say  now 
will  be  very  short,  certainly.     I  think  we  can 


dispose  of  this  question  of  the  Elective  Fran- 
chise this  afternoon,  and  do  it  understanding- 
ly.  I  had  supposed  before  this  report  was 
brought  before  the  ConvMition,  that  there  was 
a  general  understanding  that  we  would  insert 
the  word  ''  white"  here,  and  then  submit  to 
the  people  the  question  whether  negroes  should 
vote,  and  if  a  majority  of  the  votes  was  in 
favor  of  it,  then  that  negroes  should  be  per- 
mitted to  vote  ;  and  if  a  majority  of  the  voters 
were  opposed  to  it,  then  they  should  not  have 
that  right.  I  understood  that  that  was  the 
general  prevailing  sentiment  among  the  mem- 
bers of  this  Convention.  But  it  appears  that 
I  was  mistaken  in  regard  to  that  matter. 
Now  so  far  as  I  am  concerned  individually,  I 
stand  in  this  position  :  I  came  here  as  a  mem- 
ber of  this  Convention  for  the  purpose  of 
aiding  and  assisting  in  drafting  certain  propo- 
sitions to  be  submitted  to  the  people,  and  that 
none  of  those  propositions  shall  have  any 
binding  force  or  efficacy  imtil  they  have  been 
ratified  by  the  people;  and  so  far  as  I  am  con- 
cerned individually,  I  would  like,  provided  it 
could  be  done  conveniently,  to  have  every 
single  article  which  will  be  incorporated  into 
our  Constitution,  submitted  to  the  people  sep- 
arately. But  (hat  cannot  be  done  conveni- 
ently, and  hence  I  am  in  favor  of  having  the 
main  portion  of  the  Constitution  submitted  to 
the  people  as  one  whole  thing,  and  certain 
other  matters  separately.  When  this  sepa- 
rate proposition  is  submitted  to  the  people, 
and  I  go  home  to  my  constituents,  I  appre- 
hend that  I  shall  be  just  as  much  in  favor  of 
the  rights  of  colored  persons  in  this  Territory 
as  my  Mend  from  Rice  County,  (Mr.  Nobth) 
or  my  friends  from  any  other  coimty  ;  and  I 
will  ten  the  people  that,  in  my  judgment,  the 
colored  population  of  this  Territory,  over 
twenty-one  years  of  age,  who  aid  and  assist 
m  bearing  the  bxurdens  of  taxation,  should 
have  a  voice  in  the  enactment  of  the  laws 
which  govern  and  control  their  action. 

But  so  far  as  the  manner  of  submitting  this 
question  is  concerned,  I  am  decidedly  in  favor 
of  having  it  submitted  as  a  separate  proposi- 
tion, as  to  who  shall  and  who  shall  not  vote. 
I  say  that  I  am  in  favor  of  giving  to  eveiy  male 
citizen  of  the  United  States,  who  is  over  twen- 
ty-one years  of  age,  who  has  been  a  resident  of 
this  State  sLs  months,  and  a  resident  of  the 
coimty  ten  days,  the  right  to  vote.    In  the  next 


880 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Fbidat,  August  7. 


place  I  am  in  favor  of  every  white  male  inhabi- 
tant, over  and  above  that  age,  and  who  is  of 
foreign  birth,  who  is  a  resident  of  the  Territory 
at  the  time  of  the  adoption  of  this  Constitution, 
having  the  right  to  vote.  Then  I  am  in  favor 
also  of  giving  the  right  to  vote  to  every  male 
inhabitant  of  foreign  birth  over  twenty-one 
years  of  age,  &c.,  after  he  has  been  here  two 
years — a  time  sufficient  to  acquaint  himself 
with  the  general  machinery  of  government. 

Now  I  want  that  expressed  in  as  plain  and 
definite  language  as  it  possibly  can  be.  And 
here  I  wish  to  say,  that  in  looking  over  this 
report  of  the  committee,  my  judgment  is,  that 
they  have  not  chosen  as  good  language  as  I 
think  they  might  have  chosen,  and  which 
would  have  conveyed  more  distinctly  and 
definitely  the  rights  and  privileges  of  persons 
therein  named. 

Besides  all  that,  I  am  opposed  to  the  latter 
part  and  portion  of  that  substitute,  and  in 
favor  of  substituting  something  like  what  I 
hold  in  my  hand,  and  which  I  shall  ofl^er  at 
the  proper  time,  either  in  the  shape  of  an 
amendment  or  substitute.  It  is  in  this  lan- 
guage following : 

"  Every  male  person  of  the  age  of  twenty-one 
years  and  upwards,  belonging  to  either  of  the  fol- 
lowing classes,  and  who  shall  have  resided  in  this 
State  for  the  period  of  six  months,  and  in  the 
town,  precinct,  or  ward  ten  days,  next  preceding 
any  election,  shall  be  deemed  a  qualified  elector, 
and  have  the  right  to  vote  for  all  offices  elective 
by  the  people — 

"First — Citizens  of  the  United  States. 

"  Second — White  persons  of  foreign  birth  who 
shall  have  declared  their  intention  to  become  citi- 
tens  of  the  United  States,  in  conformity  to  the 
laws  of  Congress  on  the  subject  of  naturalization, 
and  who  are  residents  of  this  State  at  the  time  of 
the  adoption  of  this  Constitution. 

"  Third — White  persons  of  foreign  birth  who 
shall  have  declared  their  intentions  to  become  cit- 
izens of  the  United  States  in  conformity  to  the 
laws  of  Congress  on  the  subject  of  naturalization, 
and  who  have  been  residents  of  the  United  States 
for  the  period  of  two  years. 

"Fourth — All  male  persons  of  mixed  Indian 
blood,  and  all  full  blooded  Indians  who  have 
adopted  the  habits  and  customs  of  civilized  life,  of 
the  age  of  twenty -one  years  and  upwards  who  can 
write  their  own  names  and  read  this  Constitution 
either  in  their  own  or  the  English  language,  and 
who  shall  take  an  oath  to  support  the  same,  and 
who  are  not  members  of  any  tribe  and  do  not 
receive  the  annuities  from  the  United  States,  and 
who  shall  have  resided  in  the  said  county,  town, 


ward,  or  precinct,  the  same  length  of  time  re- 
quired of  other  voters,  shall  have  the  right  to  vote 
at  any  and  all  elections.  Provided,  however,  that 
no  such  person  shall  be  entitled  to  the  elective 
franchise,  unless  he  shall  have  obtained  a  certifi- 
cate from  some  judge  of  the  circuit  or  supreme 
court  showing  that  upon  a  thorough  examination 
he  possesses  the«bove  qualifications.  And  it  shall 
be  the  duty  of  the  Legislature  fiom  time  to  time 
to  provide  for  the  manner  in  which  said  examina- 
tion shall  be  conducted." 

Now  that  expresses  my  views  in  regard 
to  the  elective  franchise  pretty  clearly.  And 
here  let  me  say,  that  the  fourth  clause  which 
I  have  introduced,  is  introduced  upon  the  re- 
quest of  Mr.  RiGGS,  Indian  Missionary  among 
the  Indians  upon  the  Sioux  reservation.  The 
clause  he  desired  me  to  introduce  was  a  little 
different  from  this„  but  upon  showing  it  to 
him,  he  said  it  would  answer  better  than  noth- 
ing, and  would  throw  restrictions  around  this 
matter  of  fraud  committed  under  color  of  the 
right  of  these  mixed,  and  full  blooded  Indians 
to  vote.  It  will  put  an  end  to  this  matter 
of  dressing  up  Indians,  giving  them  an  ap- 
pearance of  civilization,  leading  them  up  to 
the  polls  to  vote,  and  then  leading  them  away, 
stripping  off  their  clothes,  and  putting  them 
upon  other  Indians  for  the  same  purpose. 
"We  claim  that  that  thing  shall  not  be  done. 
But  as  I  am  satisfied  that  there  are  certain 
mixed  blood  Indians  as  well  qualified  to  exer- 
cise the  elective  franchise  as  many  of  those 
w^ho  will  undoubtedly  exercise  it,  I  am 
decidedly  in  Tavor  of  extending  it  to  them 
under  these  restrictions. 

Now  I  hope  this  thing  will  be  put  in  a  nut 
shell,  and  in  such  language  as  cannot  be  mis- 
construed, which  all  will  understand.  If  the 
language  I  have  proposed  is  any  better  than 
the  language  made  use  of  by  the  mover  of 
the  substitute,  or  by  the  mover  of  the  amend- 
ment, or  by  the  committee,  I  should  like  to 
see  it  adopted  ;  and  I  would  like  to  see  the 
same  principle  incorporated  into  the  article 
upon  the  elective  Franchise.  I  certainly 
am  opposed  to  have  the  right  of  the  ne- 
gro to  vote  incorporated  into  the  Constitu- 
tion and  made  a  part  and  parcel  of  it.  I  am 
opposed  to  making  the  fute  of  the  Constitu- 
tion depend  upon  that.  But  I  am  in  favor  of 
having  it  submitted  to  the  people  separately, 
and  if  the  people  desire  that  negroes  shall 
vote,  let  them  vote.  So  far  as  the  people  of 
Steele  county  are  concerned,  they  will  show 


MINNESOTA  CONTENTION  DEBATES— Fkibay,  Arcrsr  7. 


381 


as  good  a  vote  for  it,  as  the  votes  of  Rice 
county,  taking  into  consideration  their  popu- 
lation. 

Mr.  "WILSON.  I  think  amendments  pro- 
posed to  this  matter,  will  show  that  it  has  not 
been  looked  at  as  much,  probably,  by  those 
offering  amendments,  as  it  has  been  by  the 
members  of  the  committee  which  made  the 
report  I  agree  with  my  firiends  from  Rice 
and  Steele  counties  exactly  as  to  who  should 
be  entitled  to  vote,  and  I  think  the  original 
report  of  this  committee  arrives  at  just  that. 
I  am  not  here  to  defend  the  language  of  that 
report,  though  I  think  that  this  first  section 
is  in  better  language  than  any  which  has 
been  offered  as  a  substitute.  I  like  it,  as  far 
as  language  is  concerned,  and  certainly,  so 
far  as  sentiment  is  concerned.  There  are  two 
or  three  things  to  be  avoided.  If  the  word 
"  white  "  be  stricken  out,  it  is  necessary  to 
•  have  this  part  of  the  Constitution  in  a  proper 
shape  to  correspond  to  that  change.  Any 
person  by  looking  at  the  report  as  we  have 
drawn  it  up,  will  see-  that  it  will  be  left  in 
proper  shape,  for  it  was  drawn  with  spe- 
cial reference  to  that  fact. 

Some  of  the  amendments  which  have  been 
proposed,  I  object  to  in  toto,'&nd  if  this  Con- 
vention is  going  to  pass  some  of  them,  I  may 
be  compelled  to  change  my  position,  for  it 
then  becomes  a  choice  of  evils.  For  instance, 
making  it  necessary  that  every  person  of  for- 
eign birth  should  exhibit  a  certificate  of  some 
officer  that  he  has  declared  his  intention  to 
become  a  citizen  of  the  United  States.  I 
object  to  that,  in  the  first  place,  because  it  is 
an  implication  that  aliens  or  persons  of  for- 
eign birth  are  not  as  honest  as  other  people 
are.  That  would  be  sufficient  to  influence 
my  vote,  and  I  shall  oppose  it  directly  and 
indirectly.  I  shall  never  submit  to  any  thing 
of  that  kind  unless  I  am  compelled  to. 

But  there  is  another  reason  still  stronger  why 
I  oppose  it.  There  are  many  aliens  by  birth 
who  become  citizens  of  the  United  States 
and  never  declare  their  intentions  to  be- 
come citizens.  Does  the  gentleman  from 
Dakota,  wish  to  introduce  a  new  law  upon 
the  subject  of  naturalization? 

Mr.  MORGAN.  I  believe  that  clause  upon 
which  the  gentleman  comments,  does  not 
apply  to  any  who  are  citizens,  but  only  to 
those  who  are  not  citizens. 


Mr.  WILSON.  I  may  be  mistaken.  I 
must  read  it. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  My  amendment  does  not, 
because  the  provision  is  '*  citizens  of  the 
"  United  States." 

Mr.  WILSON.  But  it  has  its  application 
to  the  fullest  extent  on  the  other  account  I 
spoke  of,  and  to  that  I  cannot  agree.  Suppose 
a  foreigner  has  declared  his  intentions  to 
become  a  citizen,  but  has  lost  his  certificate, 
and  the  judges  of  election  declare  that  they 
cannot  take  his  oath  ?  Must  he  be  compelled 
to  send  all  over  the  United  States  for  it,  before 
he  shall  be  permitted  to  vote  ?  It  is  wrong 
and  I  am  opposed  to  it,  and  I  trust  the  Con- 
vention are  opposed  to  it 

Further,  the  original  report  of  the  committee 
provides  that  foreigners  who  have  been  resi- 
dents of  the  Territory  for  six  months,  and 
resided  in  the  Territory  at  the  time  of  the 
adoption  of  this  Constitution,  shall  be  quali- 
fied electors.  I  believe  they  should  be. 
They  came  here  and  endured  the  hardships 
and  privations  of  frontier  life,  and  helped  to 
make  Minnesota  what  she  is,  and  they  should 
be  electors.  I  think  this  Convention  thinks 
so  too. 

I  am  also  opposed  to  this  wholesale  making 
of  Indian,  or  mixed  bloods,  qualified  voters. 
There  are  many  of  them  I  would  wish  to 
extend  that  privilege  to,  but  not  promis- 
cuously. Now  the  ninth  section  of  the 
article  reported  by  the  committee,  provides 
that— 

"  Xo  persons  belonging  to  any  Indian  tribe)  or 
who  shall  not  have  assumed  the  habita  of  civilized 
life,  shall  ever  be  a  qualified  elector." 

— What  does  that  mean?  It  has  no  force 
whatever,  if  the  word  "  white"  is  lefl  in  the 
Constitution. 

Mr.  KING  moved  (at  twelve  o'clock  and 
fifteen  minutes)  that  the  Convention  adjourn 
until  half  past  two. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to,  and  thereupon 
the  Convention  adjourned. 

AFTERNOON  SESSION. 

The  Convention  assembled  at  half-past  two 
o'clock,  and  immediately  resumed  the  report 
of  the  committee  on  the 

ELECTIVE   FBAXCHISE. 

The  pending  question  being  upon  the  adop- 
tion of  the  substitute  offered  by  Mr.  Fosteb. 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Fbiday,  August  7. 


Mr.  CLEGHORN  moved  to  amend  the 
third  clause  of  the  substitute  by  adding 
thereto  the  words — 

"  Provided,  they  comply  with  the  same  requisi- 
tions required  of  persons  of  foreign  birth." 

The  amendment  was  not  agreed  to. 

Mr.  CO GG SWELL.     I  move  to  amend  by 

striking  out  all  after  the  first  word  "  every," 

and  inserting  the  words  I  read  this  morning, 

when  I  gave  notice  of  offering  an  amendment. 

Mr.  MORGAN.  I  would  inquire  if  it  is  in 
order  to  introduce  a  substitute  for  a  substitute. 

The  PRESIDENT.    It  is  not. 

Mr.  MORGAN.  The  amendment  offered 
by  the  gentleman  from  Steele  county  is  sub- 
stantially a  substitute  for  a  substitute. 

The  PRESIDENT.  Substantially  it  is, 
but  technically  it  is  not.  The  Chair  thinks 
the  gentleman  has  a  right  ^to  offer  the 
amendment. 

The  question  was  taken  on  the  amendment, 
and  it  was  rejected. 

The  question  recurring  on  the  substitute — 

Mr.  COGGSWELL  said  :  I  would  inquire 
if  the  question  is  divisible,  so  tlaat  we  can 
vote  upon  each  clause  separately  ? 

The  PRESIDENT.  In  the  opinion  of  the 
Chair,  it  is  divisible. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  Then  I  call  for  a 
division. 

The  PRESIDENT.  The  Chair  would  sug- 
gest that  the  question  should  be  taken  upon 
the  first,  second,  and  third  divisions  first,  and 
upon  the  preamble  last. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  My  object  was  to 
get  a  vote  upon  those  three  propositions  sepa- 
rately. 

The  question  was  then  put  upon  the  first 
subdivision,  viz :  "  citizens  of  the  United 
"  States,"  and  it  was  decided  in  the  negative. 
(Great  laughter.) 

The  question  was  then  taken  upon  the 
second  and  third  subdivisions  respectively, 
and  they  were  severally  rejected. 

Mr.  ALDRICII.  WUl  it  be  in  order  to 
move  to  go  into  committee  of  the  Whole  to 
take  into  consideration  the  report  of  the  com- 
mittee upon  the  Elective  Franchise  ?  It  seems 
to  me  that  we  had  better  do  so,  as  we  are 
making  a  great  deal  of  work  for  our  reporters. 

Mr.  WILSON.  Docs  not  the  reporter 
report  in  committee  of  the  Whole,  as  well  as 
Ib  the  Convention,  and  ^wiU  not  tide  same 


words  amount  to  as  much  in  one  place  as  in 
the  other  ? 

Mr.  DICKERSON.  As  the  substitute  has 
been  disposed  of,  I  move  to  amend  the  first 
section  by  striking  out  the  word  "  two,"  and 
inserting  "  one,"  so  as  to  require  only  one 
years  residence  instead  of  two. 

The  amendment  was  not  agreed  to. 

Mr.  MORGAN  moved  to  amend  section 'ouo 
line  twelve,  by  striking  out  the  word  "  have," 
and  inserting  the  words,  "  produce  evidence 
of  having,"  so  that  it  shall  read — 

"Shall  be  a  qualified  elector  until  he  shall  have 
produced  evidence  of  having  declared  his  intention 
to  become  a  citizen,  &c." 

•  Mr.  WILSON.  I  will  not  argue  that 
amendment,  but  I  will  say  that  it  involves  the 
same  idea  which  \^as  advanced  this  morning, 
of  requiring  the  foreigner  to  produce  his  cer- 
tificate that  he  has  declared  his  intentions  to 
become  a  citizen  of  the  United  States.  It| 
declares  tacitly  that  his  .word  is  not  so  good 
as  that  of  other  men. 

Mr.  BATES.  I  hope  that  part  of  the  sec- 
tion will  be  retained,  whether  amended  or  not. 
Now  I  know  that  the  oath  of  the  Irish  Cath- 
olic amounts  to  but  very  little.  I  have  seen 
it  tried  too  often,  and  I  think  it  but  proper 
that  he  should  produce  such  evidence  as  is 
required  by  the  section. 

Mr.  MORGAN.  There  is  another  provis- 
ion in  this  report  which  provides  for  the  reg- 
istration of  votes  and  the  preparation  of  poll 
lists.  Now  this  provision  would  be  peculiarly 
applicable  to  the  preparation  of  poll  lists, 
where  the  applicant  should  be  required  to 
show  some  evidence  of  being  entitled  to  vote. 

The  remedy  which  is  intended  to  be  reme- 
died is  the  rushing  up  of  men  to  the  polls 
when  they  do  not  know  exactly  whether  they 
are  swearing  truly  or  not.  Sometimes  they 
are  brought  up  from  whiskey  shops  when 
they  do  not  know  what  they  are  about.  It 
seems  to  me  that  this  requirement  would 
remedy  that  evil  in  a  great  measure.  Cer- 
tainly it  is  requiring  no  more  than  to  require 
an  oath,  and  it  does  not  seem  to  me  that 
it  would  be  imposing  a  greater  hardship.  It 
may  be  considered  insulting,  but  frequently 
the  requiring  of  an  oath  is  resented.  This  is 
also  conformable  to  the  practice  in  other 
States.  In  Pennsylvania,  I  believe,  natural- 
ized citizens  are  required  to  produce  their 


JUXNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Feidat,   Arcrsr  7. 


S83 


naturalization  papers,  while  this  only  applies 
to  those  who  have  not  been  naturalized.  It 
simply  requires  them  to  show,  at  the  time  of 
voting,  that  tliey  are  entitled  to  vote. 

Mr.  WILSON.  I  do  not  know  whether 
there  is  a  Constitutional  provision  in  Pennsyl- 
vania. The  eases  are  not  at  all  analagous. 
In  Pennsylvania  there  are  no  pre-emptors, 
while  here  we  are  all  pre-emptors.  By  the 
rule  of  the  Greneral  Land  OflBce,  every  man, 
when  he  pre-empts  is  required  to  send  his 
declaration  of  intention  to  become  a  citizen  of 
the  United  States,  to  the  General  Land  Office 
at  Washington.  They  require  that  proof, 
and  will  accept  nothing  else.  Now  then,  if 
you  make  the  same  requirement  as  a  qualifi- 
cation for  voting  you  shut  out  every  foreigner 
from  voting  until  he  can  send  all  over  the 
United  States  and  get  another  certificate  of 
his  declaration  of  intention.  Now  that  is 
vmjust  and  unfeir,  and  I  do  not  believe  that 
this  Convention  will  adopt  any  such  clause. 

Mr.  BATES.  I  do  not  want  anything  but 
what  is  fair  in  this  case.  But  the  objection 
that  is  urged,  arising  out  of  foreigners  being 
required  to  file  their  certificates  of  intention 
when  they  pre-empt,  amounts  to  but  little 
because  the  great  mass  of  foreign  population 
in  this  City  and  in  St.  Paul,  never  will  pre- 
empt. And  furthermore  we  aU  know  that 
the  great  mass  of  foreigti  population  who  are 
required  to  take  an  oath  do  not  vmderstand 
the  luture  of  an  oath,  and  do  not  know  what 
they  are  about,  when  they  do  take  an  oath. 
I  have  seen  a  hundred  of  them  at  a  time, 
who  did  not  know  what  they  were  about  when 
they  went  to  the  polls  to  vote,  because  they 
were  drunk.  But  if  they  are  obliged  to  pre- 
sent a  certificate,  there  is  somelliing  to  be 
relied  upon. 

Mr.  WILSON.  It  is  not  true  what  has 
been  stated.  I  pretend  to  know  somethin*' 
about  that.  It  is  not  correct  that  most  of 
foreigners  do  not  know  the  nature  of  an  oath, 
and  that  they  will  swear  fidsely  as  quick  as 
they  will  truly.  It  is  felse,  fahe,  false. 
That  is  all  I  have  to  say. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  I  hope  Uiis  provision 
will  be  adopted,  for  it  supercedes  the  neces- 
sity of  a  registry  law.  I  think  the  gentle- 
man is  very  much  mistaken  in  regard  to  the 
transmission  of  the  original  declaration  of 
intention  to  become  a  citizen  to  Washington. 


The  original  must  be  deposited  with  the  clerk 
of  the  court  before  which  he  makes  his 
declaration,  and  he  takes  a  certified  copy  of 
that  declaration,  and  if  it  is  necessary  to  for- 
ward such  an  instnmient  as  that  to  the  Com- 
missioner of  the  General  Land  Office  at 
Washington,  it  is  only  necessary  to  get  a  cer- 
tified copy  thereof  As  many  certified  copies 
can  be  obtained  as  may  be  desired — one  for 
Washington,  and  one  to  be  used  vmder  this 
requirement. 

Mr.  MORGAN.  There  is  no  difficulty  at 
all  about  getting  certificates.  Men  frequently 
lose  their  copy,  and  are  obliged  to  get  another 
one.  As  remarked  by  the  gentleman  from 
Chisago,  the  original  remains  on  tiie  files  of 
the  court  before  whom  the  declarati<xi  is 
originally  made,  and  duplicate  copies  can 
always  be  obtained. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  I  used  to  be  posted 
upon  this  matter,  at  a  certain  time,  and  if  I 
now  recollect  the  mode  and  manner  of  doing 
this  thing  it  is  this :  A  foreigner  comes,  for 
instance,  to  the  city  of  New  York ;  he  goes 
before  the  clerk  of  some  court  of  record  and 
declares  his  intention  to  become  a  citizen  of 
the  United  States.  He  receives  from  the 
clerk  a  certificate  of  the  feet  that  he  has  so 
declared  his  intentions,  and  brings  it  with  him 
to  Minnesota.  ,  When  he  gets  here,  he  seeks 
to  pre-empt  a  tract  of  land.  At  the  time  he 
does  pre-empt,  it  is  indispensably  necessary 
that  he  shall  transmit  this  certificate,  or  some 
other  certificate,  showing  that  he  has  declared 
his  intention  to  become  a  citizen  of  the  Uni- 
ted States,  to  the  department  at  Washington 
before  he  can  obtain  a  patent  for  his  land. 
Well,  having  sent  that  away,  as  required  by 
law,  it  would  be  necessary  for  him  to  send 
clear  back  to  the  city  of  New  York  to  get 
another  certificate  showing  the  same  fact,  and 
in  the  mean  time,  perhaps,  an  election  has 
interposed,  and  not  having  a  certificate  in  his 
pocket,  of  course  he  could  not  vote. 

Another  objection  arises.  Not  one  foreigner 
in  ten  knows  the  fact  that  he  can  send  back 
to  New  York  to  the  clerk  of  the  court  in 
which  he  filed  his  original  declaration  of  in- 
tention, and  get  a  duplicate  copy.  The  prac- 
tical operation  of  this  thing  would  be  exceed- 
ingly bad. 

Mr.  HAYDEN.  If  I  understand  the 
amendment,  it  is,  that  the  person  of  foreign 


884 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Fbidat,  August  7. 


birth  shall  produce  evidence  of  having  de- 
clared his  intention.  It  does  not  say  that  he 
shall  produce  the  certificate. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  That  is  true.  But 
in  furnishing  evidence  we  all  understand  that 
the  general  rule  is  that  the  best  evidence  the 
nature  of  the  case  admits  of,  must  be  pro- 
duced, and  of  course,  the  certificate,  being 
the  best  evidence,  must  be  produced. 

Mr.  MORGAN.  But  if  the  best  evidence 
cannot  be  produced,  a  certificate  copy  would 
answer. 

Mr.  KING.  I  cannot  see  any  use  of  the 
amendment.  It  is  the  object  of  the  registry 
law,  which  this  report  contemplates  being 
made,  to  secure  the  ballolbox  against  fraud 
from  every  quarter.  Frauds  are  not  commit- 
ted by  foreigners  only,  but  we  have  as  luany 
native-born  citizens  as  bad  as  any  that  cou^e 
from  other  countries.  And  if  this  is  designed 
to  supercede  the  registry  law,  I  go  against  it 
altogether.  We  want  a  registry  law  which 
will  guard  against  fraud  from  every  quarter, 
and  of  every  kind. 

Mr.  WILSON.  I  understand  the  gentle- 
man from  Minneapolis  to  say  that  the  pre- 
emptor,  sending  his  certificate  to  the  Land 
OfiBce  at  Washington,  could  obtain  a  certifi- 
cate from  the  Land  Ofiice  to  that  effect,  and 
that  that  certificate  would  b§  sufficient  evi- 
dence. 

Mr.  MORGAN.  I  said  he  might  have  a 
certified  copy. 

Mr.  WILSON.  Now  if  the  gentleman  will 
say,  as  a  lawyer,  that  any  such  certificate 
could  be  required  of  the  Land  Office,  I  think 
it  strange ;  and  if  he  says  that  that  certificate 
so  certified  to,  would  be  evidence,  I  think  it 
very  strange,  for  I  say,  unhesitatingly,  that 
neither  would  be  correct. 

Mr.  MORGAN.  AU  the  difficulties  which 
have  been  suggested  here  in  relation  to  the 
production  of  certificates,  will  be  found  to 
exist  in  regard  to  a  man's  getting  his  original 
naturalization  papers.  If  he  sends  his  cer- 
tificate of  declaration  to  Washington,  he  loses 
his  evidence  of  having  filed  his  declaration  ; 
and  it  is  no  more  an  objection  in  this  than  it 
would  be  in  that  case. 

Mr.  FOLSOM.  I  am  disposed  not  to  favor 
this  amendment  for  the  reason  that  it  requires 
evidence  to  be  given  at  the  polls.  Who  is  to 
say  what  kind    of   evidence   is    required ; 


whether  by"  certificate,  or  by  the  evidence  of 
disinterested  parties,  who  may  be  cognisant 
of  the  fact,  that  the  requirements  of  the  law 
have  been  complied  with  ?  It  appears  to  me 
that  it  would  create  a  perfect  Babel  at  the 
polls. 

Mr.  CLEGHORN.  In  my  opinion,  the  pas- 
sage of  this  amendment  will  be  tantamount 
to  an  exclusion  of  the  foreign  vote.  I  know 
that  no  honest  foreigner  will  vote  if  he  is  re- 
quired  to  have  his  certificate  in  his  hand.  He 
will  consider  it  as  a  declaration  that  he  is  not 
to  be  believed  under  oath.  Nor  can  you  guard 
the  ballot-box  in  that  way,  for  in  the  city  of 
St.  Paul,  it  will  be  as  easy  to  manufacture 
false  papers  of  declaration  of  intention,  as  it 
is  to  manufacture  false  certificates  of  election, 
Mr.  GALBRAITH.  I  do  not  see  that  I 
have  any  particular  objection  to  this  report  as 
a  whole.  To  have  good  evidence  of  a  man's 
right  to  vote,  is  certainly  right.  That  evi- 
dence is,  in  such  cases,  generally  the  certifi- 
cate of  declaration  of  intention.  It  is  the  re- 
quisition which  was  made  in  the  State  from 
which  I  came.  I  submit  whether,  with  this 
article  standing  as  it  now  is,  it  would  not  be 
perfectly  Constitutional  for  the  Legislature  to 
pass  a  law  requiring  every  evidence  they 
please  ?  For  instance,  this  section  says  that 
"  Every  white  male  inhabitant  of  the  age  of 
"  twenty -one  years  and  upwards,  who  shall 
"  have  resided  in  the  State  six  months,  &c." 
Now  there  is  a  fact  to  be  proved,  and  if  it  is 
contested,  it  is  perfectly  competent  for  the 
Legislature  to  provide  what  evidence  shall  be 
required  to  prove  those  facts. 

True,  by  adopting  the  amendment,  some 
might  be  disfranchised,  but  I  do  not  see  any 
great  danger  of  disfranchising  men,  because 
I  know  this  to  be  a  fact,  that  foreigners,  be- 
coming citizens  of  Minnesota,  never  can  get 
their  final  naturalization  papers,  until  they 
produce  the  certificate  of  declaration  of  in- 
tention, for  that  must  be  made  part  of  the  re- 
cord. So  that  he  must  have  his  papers  any- 
how, or  forever  remain  not  a  citizen  of  the 
United  States,  and  forever  ineligible  to  all  the 
rights  of  citizens.  lie  may  be  a  citizen  of 
Minnesota,  but  not  a  citizen  of  the  United 
States.  I  think  this  section,  though  not 
worded  exactly  as  I  could  desire,  will  allow 
the  Legislature  to  pass  such  laws,  in  regard 
to  evidence,  as  will  be  proper  in  regard  to  the 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Fbidat,  August  7. 


385 


point  of  declaration  of  intention  and  all  other 
requirements  contained  in  the  section. 

In  the  next  section  we  allow  the  Legi^- 
ture  to  provide  a  general  election  law.  I 
think  we  must  leave  that  to  the  Legislature, 
because  men,  under  present  circumstances, 
are  frequently  placed  in  position  that  they 
are  disfranchised,  who  would  really  have  a 
right  to  vote  under  the  Constitution,  but  for 
lack  of  some  evidence.  I  see  the  difficulty 
that  foreigners  in  the  country  would  be  in- 
volved in.  I  know  it  is  hardly  ever  the  case 
that  foreigners  coming  in,  have  their  certifi- 
cates, and  they  hardly  ever  think  of  sending 
for  them.  Under  such  circumstances  they 
come  to  the  polls,  and  if  they  are  challenged, 
they  are  excluded,  and  there  is  no  help  for 
them. 

One  word  in  regard  to  section  nine.  It 
says  that  "No  person  belonging  to  any  Indian 
"tribe,  or  who  shall  not  have  assumed  the 
"  habits  of  civilized  life,  shall  ever  be  a  quali- 
"  fied  elector."  I  would  ask  the  committee 
whether  the  affirmative  of  that  proposition 
was  not  intended  ?  and  whether  it  would  not 
be  better  to  put  it  in  an  affirmative  form  ?  I 
suppose  the  intention  is  to  bestow  a  right, 
positively,  upon  a  certain  class  of  persons.  I 
would  like  it  more  definite. 

The  question  being  upon  Mr.  Mobgax's 
amendment — 

Mr.  WILSON  called  for  the  yeas  and  nays. 

The  yeas  and  nays  were  ordered,  and  the 
question  being  put  it  was  decided  in  the  ne- 
gative— ^yeas  6,  nays  37,  as  follows  :  . 

Teas. — Messrs.  Bates,  Davis,  Hall,  Hayden,  Mor- 
gan, and  Mills. — 6. 

JS'ai/s. — Messrs.  Aldrich,  Anderson,  Ajer,  Bar- 
tholomew, Butler,  Cleghom.  Colbum,  Coggswell, 
Cederstam,  Coombs,  Duley,  Dickerson,  Eschlie, 
Folsom,  Galbraith,  Harding,  Hudson,  Hanson, 
HoUey,  King,  Lyle,  Mantor,  McKune,  JlcClure, 
Messer,  Phelps,  Perkins,  Putnam,  Peckham,  Rob- 
bins,  Stannard,  Sheldon,  Taughn,  Walker,  Wat- 
son, Wilson,  and  the  President. — 37. 

So  the  amendment  was  rejected- 
Mr.  MORGAN.    I  would  ask  some  mem- 
ber of  the  committee  to  explain  their  views 
of  the  appUcation  of  the  following  paragraph 
of  the  report : 

"  Or  if  he  shall  be  an  inhabitant  of  this  State  at 
the  time  of  the  adoption  of  this  Constitution." 

I  wish  to  know  what  class  of  voters  it  re- 
fers to  and  how  many  classes  it  includes  in 
49 


itsparticular  appUcation,  taken  in  connecation 
tion  with  the  preceding  part  of  the  report? 

No  one  answers,  and  I  will  move  to  strike 
out  those  words.     In  the  first  clause  of  this 
section  it  is  made  absolutely  necessary  that 
j  every  pei-son,  who  shall  vote,  shall  have  been 
;  an  inhabitant  of  the  State  six  months,  and  an 
I  inhabitant  of  the  town,  ward  or  precinct  ten 
I  days.     This  proviso  says,  "  if  he  shall  be  an 
1  "inhabitant  of  this  State  at  the  time  of  the 
j  "  adoption  of  this   Constitution."    Now  the 
I  six  months  clause  is  general,  and  this  proviso 
;  can  only  apply  to  a  person  not  a  native  of 
this  country,  and  the  efiect  of  it  is  to  allow 
persons,  not  natives  of  this  country,  but  who 
have  declared  their  intentions  to  become  citi- 
zens, to  vote  before  they  have  been  in  the 
country  two  years ;  and,  then,  in  any  election 
subsequent  to  the  adoption  of  this  Constitu- 
tion, provided  they  have  been  in  this  State 
six  months.     If  that  is  the  meaning,  I  think 
there  is  the  same  objection  to  their  voting  for 
the  next  eighteen  months  after  tiie  adoption 
of  this  Constitution,  as  there  would  be  at  any 
other  time,  provided  they  have  not  been  here 
two  years.     I  do  not  exactly  see  the  reason 
why  persons  from  foreign[countries  who  have 
been  in  the  Territory  six  months,  should  be 
allowed  to  vote  for  the  first  eighteen  months 
after  we  become  a  State,  when  they  would 
not  be  allowed  to  vote,  if  they  had  not  hap- 
pend  to  be  here  upon  the  day  of  the  adoption 
of  the  Constitution.     If  they  came  the  day 
after,  the  privilege  would  not  be  allowed  to 
them.  ^ 

Mr.  WILSON.  I  do  think  that  those  per- 
sons who  came  here  when  our  country  was 
all  a  frontier  and  have  endured  the  hardships 
incident  to  such  a  hfe,  should  have  privileges 
over  others.  And  that  is  the  ground  upon 
which  that  provision  is  based. 

Mr.  MORGAN.  I  cannot  understand  why 
a  man  who  comes  into  the  Territory  the  day 
before  the  Constitution  is  adopted,  should  be 
placed  a  year  and  a  half  ahead  of  the  man 
who  happens  to  come  in  the  day  after. 

The  question  was  then  taken  and  the 
amendment  was  not  agreed  to. 

Mr.  ALDRICH.  I  move  to  amend  the 
same  clause  by  striking  out  the  words  "  shall 
"  be  an  inhabitant"  and  inserting  "  have  his 
"  home  and  residence  m  this  State." 

The  amendment  was  not  agreed  to. 


386 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Pbiday,  August  7. 


Mr.  PERKINS.  I  move  to  amend  by- 
striking  out  "  inhabitant  of  this  Statd"  in  the 
same  clause,  and  insert  "resident  of  this 
State."  There  is  considerable  difference  be- 
tween being  an  inhabitant,  and  a  resident  of 
a  State.  If  that  amendment  should  be  adop- 
ted, it  will  cure  all  the  diflBculties  which  are 
suggested  by  the  gentleman  from  Saint  An- 
thony. 

The  amendment  was  agreed  to. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  I  am  not  aware  that 
there  are  many  more  amendments  to  be  of- 
fered to  this  first  section.  It  has  been  pretty 
freely  discussed.  The  last  section  of  this  re- 
port has  something  so  indefinite  about  it,  that 
I  must  call  the  attention  of  the  Convention 
to  it  again.  Before  it  is  finally  adopted  I 
want  to  understand  what  it  really  means.  As 
it  stands,  it  seems  to  me  to  be  only  declara- 
tory of  negative.  I  presume  it  was  put  in 
here  upon  the  presumption  that  the  word 
"  white"  would  be  stricken  out,  and  then  no 
Indian  of  half-blood  or  quarter  blood  could 
ever  vote.  But  if  the  word  "  white"  remains 
in  the  Constitution,  this  section  seems  to  be 
useless. 

Mr.  MORGAN.  I  move  to  amend  section 
two  by  striking  out  the  words  "  shall  not  be 
"  held  answerable  for  refusing,"  and  insert- 
ing "  shall  not  receive." 

The  section  now  reads  as  follows : 

"  It  shall  be  the  duty  of  the  Legislature  to  pro- 
vide by  law  at  its  first  session  that  lists  of  the  names 
of  qualified  electors  shall  be  used  at  all  elections 
required  by  this  Constitution,  and  likewise  to  pro- 
vide as  to  the  manner  in  which  said  lists  shall  be 
made  out  and  used,  and  the  presiding  oflBcers  at 
said  elections  shall  not  be  held  answerable  for  re- 
fusing the  votes  of  any  person  whose  name  is  not 
found  on  said  lists  as  required  by  law." 

My  object  is  to  make  the  requirement  defi- 
nite. It  seems  to  me  that  the  provision  was 
left  in  rather  a  loose  way,  and  would  give  the 
presiding  officer  the  right  to  refuse  or  not  to 
refuse  to  receive  votes  not  upon  the  list.  It 
simply  says  they  "  shall  not  be  held  answer- 
aV>le  for  not  receiving,"  but  there  is  no  provision 
that  they  shall  not  receive  them.  The  whole 
object  of  a  registry  law  would  be  defeated,  if 
there  were  not  some  more  stringent  provision 
upon  that  subject.  The  object  of  the  registry 
law  is  to  have  the  names  of  all  the  voters  upon 
the  poll  lists,  and  if  votes  are  to  be  received 
from  those  whose  names  are  not  there,  there  is 


no  use  of  having  a  poll  list  at  all.  My  amend- 
ment would  make  a  registry  of  the  names 
necessary  before  the  time  of  voting.  The 
Legislature  may  prescribe  the  manner  and 
the  time  when  the  names  shall  be  so  entered, 
and  may  make  provision  for  entering  them 
even  after  the  opening  of  the  polls,  though  that 
is  contrary  to  the  usual  rule,  which  always 
has  been,  that  the  presiding  officers  at  the 
election  have  no  power  to  insert  names  in  the 
list. 

Mr.  PERKINS.  I  hope  the  Convention 
will  not  refuse  to  adopt  the  proposed  amend- 
ment. It  seems  to  me  that  the  section,  if  it 
is  intended  to  mean  anything  at  all,  means 
that  the  judges  of  election  shall  not  receive 
the  votes  of  any  whose  names  are  not  upon 
the  poU  lists.  But  it  does  not  express  that 
idea,  but  leaves  it  to  the  discretion  of  the 
judge  to  receive  the  vote  or  not ;  it  throws  the 
whole  power  into  the  hands  of  the  judges  of 
election.  To  carry  out  the  evident  intention, 
it  is  necessary  to  make  the  change. 

The  amendment  was  agreed  to. 

Mr.  WILSON.  I  would  enquire  of  the 
Chair  if  the  whole  report  has  been  under  con- 
sideration ?     Has  each  section  been  read  ? 

The  PRESIDENT.  The  Chair  has  no 
means  of  knowing.  The  committee  of  the 
Whole  took  the  report  into  consideration  and 
reported  it  back  to  the  Convention  without 
any  information  whatever  of  their  action 
upon  it. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  There  seems  to  be 
quite  a  desire  to  change  some  of  the  provis- 
ions of  this  bill,  and  I  think,  as  we  have  some 
other  work  to  do,  it  will  be  well  to  let  this 
report  lay  over  for  a  day  at  least. 

Mr.  HUDSON.     Oh,  let  us  finish  it. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  We  had  better  pro- 
ceed carefully,  but  I  will  not  urge  the  matter. 

Mr.  HUDSON.  I  move  to  strike  out  sec- 
tion nine.    It  says  that — 

"No  person  belonging  to  any  Indian  tribe,  or 
who  shall  not  have  assumed  the  habits  of  civilized 
life,  shall  ever  be  a  qualified  elector." 

— Now  that  certainly  means  nothing,  for  the 
first  section  says  that,  "  every  white  male 
inhabitant,  &c.,"  So  the  voter  must  be 
white,  and  as  the  Indian  is  not  white,  he  can- 
not vote  under  the  first  section.  What,  then, 
is  the  use  of  the  ninth  section  ? 
Mr.  WILSON.     In  explanation,  allow  me 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Friday,  August  7. 


887 


to  say  that  that  section  means  nothing  in 
practical  effect  unless  the  word  "  white  "  be 
stricken  from  the  Constitution  by  the  pro- 
posed vote  of  the  people.  If  it  is  stricken 
out,  then  this  section  would  be  necessary.  It 
was  framed  with  that  contingency  in  view. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  I  do  not  wish  to 
offer  an  amendment,  but  I  wish  to  say  that 
the  report,  as  it  now  stands,  is  exceedingly 
bungling,  indefinite  and  uncertain ;  that  it  is 
ill  in  every  shape  and  particular,  especially 
when  taken  all  through  as  a  whole.  To  my 
mind  it  might  be  bettered  in  many  particulars. 

But  it  appears  that  we  differ  as  to  ^hat 
those  particulars  shall  be.  So  far  as  I  am 
concerned,  perhaps  I  may  vote  for  it  with  the 
idea  and  understanding  that  I  cannot  do  any 
better,  but  I  wish  it  distinctly  understood 
that  it  does  not  suit  my  ideas  at  all,  and  that 
a  man  with  any  sagacity,  can  pick  a  great 
many  flaws  in  it. 

Mr.  MORGAN.  I  move  that  the  report  be 
laid  upon  the  table. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to,  and  the  report 
was  laid  upon  the  table. 

AMEKDMEXTS   TO   THE    CONSTITUTION,  AC. 

On  motion  of  Mr.  GALBRAITH,  the  Con- 
vention resolved  itself  into  a  committee  of  the 
Whole,  (Mr.  Mills  in  the  chair)  upon  the 
report  of  the  committee  on  Amendments  and 
revision  of  the  Constitution.  (For  report  see 
proceedings  of  August  fifth.) 

The  report  was  read  by  clauses  for  amend- 
ments. 

Sec.  1.  The  Legislature  may,  by  a  vote  of  two- 
tbirds  of  the  members  of  either  branch,  propose 
amendments  to  this  Constitution,  which  proposed 
amendments  shall  be  published  in  at  least  one  news- 
paper in  each  county  of  the  State,  where  a  news- 
paper is  published,  f)r  three  months  preceding 
the  next  election  for  Representatives  to  the  As- 
sembly, and  at  such  election  shall  be  submitted  to 
the  people  for  their  approval  or  rejection,  and  if  a 
majority  of  the  votes  cast  at  such  election  for  and 
against  be  in  favor  of  such  amendments,  they  shall 
become  part  of  this  Constitution.  When  more 
than  one  amendment  shall  be  submitted  at  the 
same  election,  they  shall  be  voted  upon  separately. 

Mr.  ALDRICH  moved  to  strike  out  the 
word  "Assembly"  in  the  sixth  line,  and 
insert  the  word  "Legislature." 

The  amendment  was  agreed  to. 

Mr.  MORGAN.  I  move  to  strike  out  the 
word  "  either  "  in  the  second  line,  and  insert 


"  each."  It  strikes  me  as  very  bad  policy  to 
allow  one  branch  of  the  Legislature  to  bring 
the  whole  people  to  a  vote  upon  an  amend- 
ment to  this  Constitution  ;  that  it  would  be 
leaving  the  matter  exceedingly  loose,  and 
establishing  a  precedent  such  as  I  have  never 
known  before.  In  the  State  of  Massachu- 
setts, where  I  have  been  more  particularly 
acquainted,  it  required  a  vote  of  two-thirds 
of  both  branches  of  the  Legislature  for  two 
consecutive  years,  before  any  amendment 
could  be  submitted  to  the  people.  But  here 
we  propose  that  if  two-thirds  of  one  branch 
of  the  Legislature  proposes  an  amendment,  it 
shall  be  submitted  to  the  people,  without  the 
concurrence  of  the  other  branch,  at  the  very 
next  election. 

Mr.  HUDSON.  As  the  chairman  of  the 
committee  which  reported  this  article  is  not 
present,  I  will  say,  that  I  find,  in  looking  at 
this  report,  that  it  is  different  from  what  I 
supposed  it  was,  and  what  was  agreed  upon 
in  committee.  The  understanding  in  com- 
mittee was,  that  either  branch  of  the  Legisla- 
ture might  propose  amendments,  and  then  if 
they  were  concurred  in  by  two-thirds  of  both 
Houses,  this  should  be  submitted  to  the 
people. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  would  suggest  that 
the  language  should  be  "both  branches," 
instead  of  "each  branch." 

Mr.  MORGAN.  I  accept  that  modification 
of  my  amendment. 

The  amendment  as  modified,  was  agreed  to. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH  moved  to  amend  by 
striking  out  all  before  the  word  "  in  "  in  the 
third  line,  and  insert  in  Ueu  thereof  the 
words — 

"  Any  amendment  or  amendments  to  this  Con- 
stitution may  be  proposed  by  either  branch  of  the 
Legislature,  and  if  the  same  shall  be  agreed  to  by 
two-thirds  of  the  members  of  each  House,  such 
proposed  amendment  or  amendments  shall  be 
entered  upon  their  journals,  and  published." 

Mr.  HUDSON.  I  would  simply  remark 
that  the  amendment  of  the  gentleman  from 
Scott  county,  is  in  effect  what  was  agreed 
upon  in  committee,  and  what  I  suppose  was 
reported.  After  the  report  was  prepared,  the 
members  of  the  committee  attached  their 
names  without  looking  it  over. 

The  amendment  was  agreed  to. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH  further  moved  to  amend 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Fbiday,  August  7. 


by  inserting  after  the  word  "  people  "  in  the 
■sixth  line,  the  words — 

"At  such  time  and  place,  and  in  such  manner  as 
the  Legislature  may  direct." 

The  amendment  was  agreed  to. 

Sec.  2.  Whenever  two-thirds  of  the  members  of 
both  branches  of  the  Legislature  shall  deem  it  ex- 
pedient to  revise  this  Constitution,  they  may  call  a 
Convention  for  that  purpose,  making  by  law  all 
needful  provisions  relative  to  the  same. 

Mr.  CLEGHORN.  I  move  to  strike  out 
section  two. 

Mr.  BALCOMBE.  I  am  in  favor  of  strik- 
ing out  section  two,  from  the  fact  that  I 
think  there  are  suificient  provisions  in  the 
first  and  in  subsequent  sections  of  the  report, 
both  as  to  amendments  to  this  Constitution,  and 
to  its  revision  by  a  Constitutional  Convention. 
The  first  section  provides  for  amendments 
submitted  through  the  Legislature.  That  will 
give  an  opportunity  to  amend  as  much  as 
would  be  required.  Then  the  third  section 
provides  that  in  the  year  1870,  and  every 
twenty  years  thereafter,  the  question  of  a 
revision  of  the  Constitution  shall  be  submit- 
ted to  the  people.  If  the  people  say  "  yes,'' 
then  the  Constitution  is  to  be  revised.  In 
my  opinion,  that  is  suflQciently  often  for  the 
people  to  incur  the  expense,  especiallj'^  when 
they  have  an  opportunity  through  the  Legis- 
lature to  get  amendments  at  any  time. 

Mr.  HUDSON.  There  is  a  provision  in 
nearly  all  Constitutions,  giving  the  Legislature 
the  power,  at  any  time,  to  call  a  Convention 
for  the  revision  of  the  Constitution.  In 
Michigan,  Ohio,  Illinois,  and  other  States, 
where  wise  men  have  consulted  together,  they 
have  seen  fit  to  make  a  provision  of  this  kind, 
and  we  were  not  disposed  to  take  upon  our- 
selves the  responsibility  of  making  a  different 
recommendation  to  this  Convention.  It  may 
not  only  be  necessary  to  have  such  amend- 
ments as  may  be  proposed  by  the  Legislature, 
but  it  may  be  necessary  to  have  a  revision  of 
the  Constitution  before  ]870,  as  the  country 
is  new,  and  great  changes  may  occur  before  | 
that  time.    This  section  can  do  no  harm.  ! 

Mr.  BALCOMBE.     I  object  to  giving  the  I 
Legislature  the  power  to  call  a  Constitutional  j 
Convention  upon  their  own  motion.     I  believe 
that  the  question  should  be  submitted  to  the 
people  first  in  all  instances,  whether  they  re- 
(juire  a  revision  of  the  Constitution.     This 


[  section  gives  the  Legislature  power,  at  any 
I  time,  when  a  two-third  vote  can  be  obtained, 
!  to  call  a  Constitutional  Convention ;  and  as 
j  a  matter  of  course,  to  require  the  people  to 
I  bear  the  expense,  which  is  no  small  matter — 
i  fifty  to  a  hundred  thousand  dollars.  If  the 
I  people  desire  a  revision,  and  are  willing  to 
:  bear  the  expense,  they  will  say  so. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to,  and  the  section 
was  stricken  out. 

Mr.  PERKINS  moved  to  amend  the  first 
.section,  by  striking  out  the  words  "for  and 
against"  in  the  eighth  line. 

Mi».  HUDSON.  I  should  say  to  the  gen- 
tleman that  those  words  have  an  important 
meaning  in  that  connection.  If  you  strike 
them  out,  the  clause  will  read : 

"And  if  a  majority  of  the  votes  cast  at  such 
election  be  in  favor  of  such  amendments  they  shall 
become  part  of  this  Constitution." 

That  would  require  a  majority  of  all  the 
votes  cast,  not  oh  this  question  alone,  but  at 
that  election.  Now  one  half  of  the  people 
who  voted,  might  not  feel  an  interest  in  the 
amendments  and  might  not  vote  at  all;  so 
that  the  votes  cast  in  favor  of  the  amend- 
ments might  not  be  a  majority  of  the  whole 
number  cast  at  that  election,  though  it  might 
be  a  large  majority  of  all  those  cast  on  that 
particular  subject;  yet  under  such  a  pro- 
vision the  amendments  would  be  defeated. 
Now  by  leaving  those  words  in,  you  provide 
against  that  difficulty,  and  leave  the  amend- 
ments to  stand  or  fall  upon  their  own  merits. 

Mr.  McCLURE.  I  move  to  amend  by 
striking  out  the  whole  section.  I  understand 
that  this  first  section  gives  to  any  legislature 
the  privilege,  by  a  two  third  vote,  to  propose 
amendments  to  the  Constitution,  which  amend- 
mcpts  they  may  be  called  to  vote  upon  every 
year.  I  am  in  favor  of  striking  out  that  sec- 
tion, and  leaving  in  the  third  section,  with 
some  amendments.  In  my  opinion,  in  about 
five  years  the  question  should  be  submitted 
to  the  people  whether  they  are  in  favor  of  a 
revision  of  the  Constitution ;  and  if  they  de- 
cide in  the  affinnative,  then  the  Legislature 
should  make  provision  for  calling  a  Conven- 
tion. Although  I  have  the  utmost  confidence 
in  the  Legislature,  I  am  disposed  to  leave  it 
to  them  only  to  propose  amendments  to  the 
Constitution,  and  have  those  amendments  sub- 
mitted to  the  voter§.    In  my  judgment  tliere 


MINNESOTA  CONTENTION  DEBATES— Fbidat.  ArcrsT  T. 


389 


would  be  such  amendments  submitted  aimogt 
every  year.  A  provision  of  that  kind  can  be 
added  to  the  third  section,  and  I  therejfore 
move  to  strike  out  section  one. 

The  motion  was  not  agreed  to. 

The  amendment  offered  by  Mr.  PERKINS 
was  rejected. 

Then,  on  motion  of  Mr.GALBRAITH,  the 
Committee  rose  and  reported  back  the  report 
with  the  amendments,  with  a  recommendati<Hi 
that  the  amendments  be  concurred  in. 

The  question  was  then  put  upon  the  amend- 
ments recommended  by  the  Committee  of  the 
Whole,  and  they  were  severally  concurred  in. 

Mr.  HARDING  moved  to  amend  the  first 
section  by  striking  out  the  word  "people"  in 
the  sixth  line,  and  inserting  in  lieu  thereof 
the  word  "electors." 

The  amendment  was  not  agreed  to. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  move  that  section  two 
be  stricken  out. 

The  motic«i  was  agreed  to. 

Mr.  SHELDON.  I  move  to  amend  by  in- 
serting the  following  for  section  two : 

"Whenever  two-thirds  of  the  members  of  both 
branches  of  the  Legislatnre  shall  deem  it  expedient 
to  revise  this  Constitution,  they  shall  reconmiend 
to  the  electors  of  the  State  to  vote  at  the  next 
election  for  members  of  the  Legislature,  for  or 
against  a  CouTention:  and  if  a  majority  of  the 
Toters  at  such  an  election  shall  have  voted  for  a 
Convention,  the  Legislature  shall  at  their  next 
session  provide  by  law  for  calling  the  same." 

Mr.  COLBOIN.  I  do  not  see  the  neces- 
sity for  a  section  of  that  kind.  It  will  be  ob- 
served that  section  three  provides  that  in  the 
year  1870,  and  every  twenty  years  thereafter, 
the  question  of  a  revision  is  to  be  submitted 
to  the  people.  I  believe  if  the  people  adopt 
this  Constitution  they  will  be  satisfied,  without 
another  Convention,  for  thirteen  years.  I 
think  after  we  provide  for  submitting  the  ques- 
tion of  a  revision  every  twenty  years,  that 
the  provision  by  which  the  Legislature  may 
submit  amendments  to  the  people  from  time 
to  time,  as  circumstances  may  require,  is  all 
that  is  necessary. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  So  far  as  I  am  con- 
cerned I  am  decidedly  in  favor  of  the  amend- 
ment, and  I  believe  that  is  all  that  is  necessary 
in  regard  to  this  subject  of  amending  the  Con- 
stitution in  any  way,  shape  or  manner.  The 
idea  of  allowing  the  Legislature  to  propose 
amendments,  is  the  Massachusetts  plan   I 


!  believe.  1  do  not  regard  it  as  the  best  plan, 
whether  it  originated  in  Massachusetts  or  any 
where  else.  So  fer  as  I  am  concerned,  I  am 
in  favor  of  having  a  Convention  called,  and 

;  such  amendments  considered,  as  the  members 

composing  that  Convention,  see  fit  to  offer.     I 

[  am  in  favor  of  leaving  the  whole  matter  in 

i 

;  the  shape  in  which  the  amendment  would 

i  leave  it. 

'      Mr.  COLBURN.     I  think,  myself,  that  it 

t  is  very  proper  that  the  Legislature  should  be 

i  allowed  to  propose  amendments.     It   may 

happen  that  some  slight  amendment  to  the 

Constitution  may  be  necessary.     It   would 

not  be  worth  while  to  call  a  Constitutional 

Convention  to  make  such   amendment,   as 

[  it  may  be  one  about  which  there  is  no  great 

;  difference  of  opinion  and  one  which  could  be 

'  easily   settled.     Some    amendments    to  the 

Constitution    of   ilassachusetts,    have  been 

:  adopted,  upon  which  there  was  great  unanim- 

•  ity  of  opinion.     They  were  propose  in  the 

■  Legislature,  passed  by  two  successive  Legis- 

!  latures,   and  then  submitted  to  the  people. 

By  that  course  they  saved  the  whole  expense 

;  of  a  Constitutional  Convention. 

I 

Then,  if  after  that,  the  people  become  sat- 

j  isfied  that  they  want  a  general  revision  of  the 

!  Constitution,  and  more  extensive  alterations 

tban  can  be  had  through  the  Legislature,  they 

may  call  a  Convention,  and  incur  the  expense 

of  having  the  work  more  thoroughly  done. 

The  question  recinring  on  Mr.  Sheldon's 
amendment — 

Mt.  COLBURN  called  for  the  yeas  and 
nays. 

The  yeas  and  nays  were  not  ordered. 

The  amendment  was  then  adopted. 

Mr.  SHELDON.  1  move  to  amend  section 
third  by  adding  thereto  the  following: 

'*  ]^ut  no  amendment  of  this  Constitution  agreed 
upon  by  any  Convention  assembled  in  pursuance 
of  this  article  shall  take  eflect  until  the  same  shall 
have  been  submitted  to  the  electors  of  the  State 
and  adopted  by  a  majority  of  those  voting 
thereon." 

Mr.  KING.  I  would  inform  the  gentleman 
that  section  three  does  not  provide  for  any 
amendment  of  the  Constitution.  It  provides 
only  for  a  revision  of  it. 

Mr.  HUDSON.  Section  firet  provides  for 
that. 

Mr.  SHELDON.    I  suppose  a  revision  and 


390 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Friday,  August  7. 


an  amendment  of  the  Constitution  are  the 
same  thing,  and  that  a  revision  shall  be  sub- 
mitted to  the  people  before  it  becomes  perma- 
nent. 

The  amendment  was  agreed  to. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  I  move  to  amend 
section  one  by  inserting  before  the  word 
"amendments"  in  line  eight,  the  words 
*'  amendment  or." 

The  amendment  was  agreed  to. 

Mr.  PERKINS  offered  the  following  substi- 
tute for  the  whole  report : 

"Any  amendment  or  amendments  to  this  Con- 
stitution may  be  proposed  in  the  Senate  and 
House  of  Representatives ;  and  if  the  same  shall 
be  agreed  to  by  a  majority  of  the  members  elected 
to  each  of  the  two  Houses,  such  proposed  amend- 
ment or  amendments  shall  be  entered  on  their 
journals  with  the  yeas  and  nays  taken  thereon, 
and  referred  to  the  Legislature  to  be  chosen  at  the 
next  general  election  of  Senators,  and  shall  be 
published  for  three  months  previous  to  the  time 
of  making  such  choice;  and  if  in  the  Legislature 
so  next  chosen,  as  aforesaid,  such  proposed 
amendment  or  amendments  shall  be  agreed  to  by  a 
majority  of  all  the  members  elected  to  each  House, 
then  it  shall  be  the  duty  of  the  Legislature  to  sub- 
mit such  proposed  amendment  or  amendments  to 
the  people,  in  such  manner  and  at  such  time  as  the 
Legislature  may  prescribe;  and  if  the  people  shall 
approve  and  ratify  such  amendment  or  amend- 
ments, by  a  majority  of  the  electors  qualified  to 
vote  for  members  of  the  Legislature,  voting 
thereon,  such  amendment  or  amendments  shall 
become  part  of  the  Constitution. 

"  At  the  general  election  to  be  held  in  the  year 
1870  and  in  each  twentieth  year  thereafter,  and 
also  at  such  time  as  the  Legislature  may  by  law 
provide,  the  question  'Shall  there  be  a  Convention 
to  revise  the  Constitution  and  amend  the  same?' 
shall  be  decided  by  the  electors  qualified  to  vote 
for  members  of  the  Legislature ;  and  in  case  a 
majority  of  the  electors  so  qualified,  voting  at  such 
election,  shall  decide  in  favor  of  a  Convention  for 
Buch  purpose,  the  Legislature,  at  its  next  session, 
shall  provide  by  law  for  the  election  of  delegates 
lo  such  Convention." 

Mr,  HUDSON.  It  will  be  seen  very  plainly 
that  it  will  take  some  time  to  secure  an 
amendment  to  the  Constitution  in  that  man- 
ner. In  the  first  place  the  amendment  must 
be  proposed,  and  it  must  be  submitted  to  the 
people  at  the  next  general  election  of  Sena- 
tors, which  might  not  be  in  two  years,  Sena- 
tors being  elected  for  two  years,  and  hence  it 
would  be  a  long  time  before  it  could  be 
secured. 

Mr.  PERKINS.    I  presume  Senators  will 


be  elected  every  year.  If  not,  the  substitute 
may  be  amended  so  as  to  bring  the  matter 
before  the  Legislature  chosen  next  after  the 
amendments  are  proposed. 

Mr.  WILSON.  I  would  rather  see  the  sub- 
stitute stand  as  it  is.  Then  we  shall  have  the 
action  of  two  Legislatures  upon  it.  This  calling 
Conventions  and  proposing  amendments  to 
the  Constitution  too  hastily  is  not  well.  I  do 
not  think  any  thing  will  be  lost  by  delay. 

Mr.  MANTOR.  I  move  to  amend  the 
substitute,  so  as  to  provide  for  a  revision  of 
the  Constitution  every  ten  years,  instead  of 
twenty. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  suggest  that  the  vote 
be  first  taken  upon  the  adoption  of  the  sub- 
stitute. If  it  is  rejected,  we  save  the  labor 
of  making  amendments  to  it.  If  it  is  adop- 
ted, we  can  then  make  amendments  to  it. 

Mr.  MANTOR.  I  withdraw  my  amend- 
ment. 

Mr.  WILSON.  I  believe  the  substitute 
provides  for  a  revision  every  twenty  years, 
and  at  such  other  times  as  the  Legislature 
may  by  law  provide.  That  obviates  the 
necessity  of  the  amendment  proposed  by  the 
gentleman  from  Dodge. 

Mr.  ALDRICH.  It  seems  to  me  that  it 
would  be  well  for  the  mover  of  the  substitute 
to  modify  it,  so  as  to  strike  out  the  words 
"next  general  election  of  Senators"  and 
insert  in  lieu  thereof,  "  next  election  of  mem- 
bers of  the  House  of  Representatives." 

Mr.  PERKINS.  I  accept  of  the  modifi- 
cation suggested. 

The  substitute  was  then  adopted. 

The  report  was  then  ordered  to  be  en- 
grossed for  a  third  reading. 

OFFICIAL    SALARIES. 

On  motion  of  Mr.  CLEGHORN,  the  Con- 
vention resolved  itself  into  a  committee  of  the 
Whole  (Mr.  Robdins  in  the  Chair)  upon  the 
report  of  the  committee  upon  olficial  salaries. 

The  report  was  read  as  follows : 

"That  as  many,  if  not  nl!  other  reports,  in 
which  there  is  reference  made  to  State  officers, 
have  provided  for  the  compensation  of  the  same 
by  leaving  it  to  the  Legislature. 

"  Wo  would  therefore  merely  recommend : 

"  That  all  salaries  of  State  officers  shall  be  affixed 
by  the  State  Legislature  at  its  first  session.  With 
this  recommendation  your  committee  would  re- 
spectfully ask  that  they  may  be  disciiarged." 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.    I  think  it   is   wcU 


MINNESOTA  COISfVENTION  DEBATES— Satubday,  August  8. 


891 


enough  to  allow  the  first  Legislature  to  fix 
the  salaries  of  State  officers,  but  I  do  not  see 
what  action  can  be  taken  upon  this  report. 
What  can  we  act  upon;  what  is  there  to 
adopt  ? 

The  CHAIRMAN.  Amendments  will  be 
in  order. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  There  is  nothing  to 
amend. 

Mr.  WILSON  offered  the  following  substi- 
tute for  the  whole  report : 

"  Sec.  1.  The  Legislature  shall  fix  the  salary 
of  every  ofBcer  whose  salary  is  not  fixed  by  this 
Constitution." 

The  substitute  was  adopted. 

And  then,  on  motion  of  Mr.  KING,  the 
committee  rose  and  reported  the  substitute  to 
the  Convention,  with  a  recommendation  that 
it  be  adopted. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  move  that  the  report 
be  referred  to  the  committee  upon  Miscella- 
neous Provisions.  It  seems  hardly  necessary 
to  put  this  as  a  separate  article  in  the  Consti- 
tution, containing  so  little.  It  may  properly 
be  placed  in  the  article  containing  miscella- 
neous provisions. 

Mr.  McCLURE.  I  am  opposed  to  that,  I 
want  to  see  something  put  in  this  Constitu- 
tion, which  has  but  little  in  it.     (Laughter.) 

Mr.  DAVIS.  I  would  inquire  if  it  is  in  the 
Massachusetts  Constitution  ?    (Laughter.) 

Mr.  WILSON.  The  committee  on  Ar- 
rangement and  Phraseology  will  put  this  ar- 
ticle where  they  think  proper. 

Mr.  Colbubn's  motion  was  not  agreed  to. 

The  report  of  the  Committee  of  the  Whole 
was  concurred  in,  and  the  substitute  for  the 
report  adopted. 

Mr.  HARDING  moved  that  the  report  be 
ordered  to  be  engrossed  for  a  third  reading. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to. 

Mr.  HARDING  moved  (at  five  o'clock  and 
twenty  minutes,)  that  the  Convention  adjourn. 

Mr.  WILSON.  Before  that  motion  is  put, 
I  wish  to  give  notice  of  a  resolution  I  intend 
to  offer  ;  and  it  is  this  :  that  the  question  as 
to  wh|^t  boundary  shall  be  adopted  as  the 
boundaries  of  the  State  of  Minnesota,  shall  be 
submitted  to  the  people  as  an  independent 
proposition  at  the  same  election  at  which  they 
vote  upon  this  Constitution.  I  do  not  intend, 
when  I  introduce  that  resolution,  to  argue  it, 
and  I  give  this  notice  that  every  member  may 


make  up  his  mind  so  that  they  can  vote  with- 
out discussion.  But  if  others  should  argue 
it,  of  course  I  shall  do  so. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  I  object  to  the  ser- 
vice of  notice,  for  the  reason  that  it  is  not  in 
writing.     (Laughter.) 

And  thereupon  the  Convention  adjourned. 


TWENTY-FOURTH  DAY. 

Satukday,  August  8th,  1857. 
The  Convention  met  at  9  o'clock,  a.  m. 
The  journal  of  yesterday  was  read  and  ap- 
proved. 

ELECTIVE     FBAh'CHISE. 

Mr.  SECOMBE  moved  that  the  Convention 
take  up  for  consideration  the  report  of  the 
committee  upon  the  Elective  Franchise. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to,  and  the  report 
was  taken  from  the  table  and  reported  to  the 
Convention  for  its  action. 

The  question  being  on  the  first  section — 

Mr.  KING  offered  the  following  substitute 
for  the  whole  report : 

"  Sec.  1.  Every  white  male  inhabitant  of  the 
age  of  twenty-one  years  and  upwards,  who  shall 
have  resided  in  the  State  six  months,  and  in  the 
town,  ward,  or  precinct,  in  which  he  may  claim  the 
right  to  vote,  ten  days  next  preceding  any  elec- 
tion, shall  be  entitled  to  vote  at  the  said  election ; 

"  Providid,  He  be  a  citizen  of  the  United  States ; 
or, 

"  Provided  further,  He  has  resided  within  the 
United  States  two  years,  and  filed  his  intention  of 
becoming  a  citizen  in  conformity  with  the  laws  of 
naturalization  of  the  United  States; 

"  Provided  further,  That  a  minor,  foreign-born, 
whose  parents  have  been  naturalized,  shall  be 
deemed  an  elector  at  twenty-one. 

"  Sec.  2.  It  shall  be  the  duty  of  the  Legisla- 
ture at  its  first  session  to  pass  a  registry  law  fully 
adequate  in  all  its  parts  to  preserve  the  purity  of 
the  ballot-box. 

"  Sec.  3.  No  person  shall  be  a  qualified  voter 
at  any  election  who  shall  be  convicted  of  treason, 
felony,  illegal  voting,  or  who  shall  induce  others  to 
vote  illegally.  The  Legislature  shall  have  power 
to  restore  such  persons  to  civil  rights. 

"Sec.  4.  Residence- shall  not  be  impaired  by 
absence  on  business  of  this  State,  or  of  the  United 
States;  but  no  soldier,  seaman,  or  marine,  in  the 
army  or  navy  of  the  United  States,  shall  be  deemed 
a  resident  of  this  State  in  consequence  of  being 
stationed  within  its  limits." 


392 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— S^tobdat,  August  8. 


The  substitute  was  not  agreed  to. 

Mr.  FOSTER.  I  move  to  amend  the  first 
section,  in  line  ten,  by  inserting  after  the  word 
"Constitution,"  the  words,  "or  if  he  be  a 
"  civilized  person  of  Indian  descent,  not  a 
"  member  of  any  tribe." 

I  hope  the  members  of  this  Convention  will 
reconsider  any  determination  they  have  here- 
tofore had  to  exclude  so  large  a  class  of  the 
present  voting  population  of  this  Territory 
from  any  future  exercise  of  the  Elective  Fran- 
chise. It  seems  to  me  as  if  here  was  a 
strange  union  of  opposite  extremes  to  do  rank 
injustice  to  a  large  and  intelligent  class  of  om* 
population  who  are  quite  as  well  qualified  to 
exercise  the  right  of  suffrage  as  many  men 
upon  this  floor.  I  find,  on  the  one  hand, 
those  who  are  actuated  by  feelings  of  preju- 
dice against,  or  distrust  of,  those  called  half- 
breeds  ;  I  find  those  who  object  to  Indians 
voting  from  some  feeling  of  natural,  so  to 
speak,  antagonism;  and  I  find  that  class  uni- 
ting with  another  class,  who,  upon  this  floor, 
proclaim  that  they  particularly  are  actuated 
by  principle,  aside  from  policy. 

When  I  see  the  union  of  the  class  of  preju- 
dice, with  the  class  of  principle,  I  regard  it  as 
something  remarkable ;  and  I  look  around  to 
see  what  can  be  the  reason  for  such  a  con- 
junction of  elements.  I  can  understand, 
perhaps,  why  those  actuated  by  prejudice 
should  vote  against  this  matter ;  but  why,  on 
the  other  hand,  those  who  claim  to  be  supe- 
rior on  the  score  of  principle,  should  do  so, 
is  more  than  I  can  understand.  Sir,  they 
say  that  the  negro,  who  Is  far  distant  from  us, 
and  who,  locally,  does  not  come  in  contact 
with  us,  must  have  the  right  to  vote ;  that  it 
is  rank  injustice  to  deprive  him  of  that  right, 
and  that  humanity,  everywhere,  should  be 
entitled  to  the  same  privileges.  But  when 
they  have  an  opportunity  to  carry  out  that 
portion  of  their  faith,  an  opportunity  to 
award  to  a  large  class  of  our  population  those 
rights  which  they  contend  belong  to  humanity, 
they  say  :  "  No,  if  we  cannot  do  justice  to  all, 
"  we  will  not  do  justice  to  any."  That  seems 
to  be  the  broad  position  taken  upon  this  floor. 
I  did  not  expect  to  see  any  of  those  men 
advance  the  doctrine  promulgated  by  the  old 
Jesuits — do  evil  that  good  may  come ;  the 
end  justifies  the  means.  What  is  the  end 
which  is  to  justify  such  means  ?    I  have  heard 


it  whispered  around  that  if  you  admit  persons 
of  mixed  Indian  blood  to  vote  you  take  away 
the  prospect,  at  some  future  time,  of  securing 
to  persons  of  mixed  African  blood  the  same 
right;  that  if  you  place  them  both  in  the 
same  category  you  have  a  better  chance  here- 
after, to  secure  the  right  to  mixed  African 
blood.  That  is  the  Jesuit  maxim — "  do  evil 
that  good  may  come."  These  men  will 
trample  down  one  portion  of  our  population, 
because  another  portion  cannot  get  their 
rights.  I  am  for  justice  to  all  humanity,  as 
fast  as  it  can  be  accomplished,  and  whenever 
the  opportunity  offers.  If  I  cannot  do  it  all 
at  once,  I  will  do  it  piece-meals,  and  I  am  not 
going  to  risk  a  great  good  by  attempting  to 
go  to  fast.  Now  here  is  such  an  opportunity. 
No  doubt  the  people  are  willing  and  ready  to 
admit  those  half-breeds  of  Indian  descent,  to 
vote.  You  find  men  of  the  highest  culture 
among  that  class.  In  towns  below  here,  you 
find  those  men  owning  large  and  valuable 
tracts  of  country ;  and  even  in  sight  of  this 
Capitol,  magnificent  residences  are  owned  by 
men  of  that  class,  who  are  as  high-minded  as 
any  among  the  whites.  Now,  I  say  that 
those  men  professing  to  act  upon  principle  are 
not  justified  in  the  course  they  take  upon  this 
floor.  If  yOu  leave  out  of  the  Constitution  a 
provision  of  this  kind,  you  array  against  us 
an  amount  of  wealth  and  influence  which  it 
is  worth  whDe  to  calculate  upon.  Of  the 
class  who  act  from  prejudice  or  policy,  I  want 
to  know  how  they  can  justify  themselves 
before  the  people  for  refusing  to  grant  the 
pi'ivilege  to  that  class  of  our  population,  who, 
you  admit  at  once,  have  the  rights  of  men  ? 
You  will  have  to  throw  yourselves  back  upon 
the  ground  of  expediency,  thinking  that  in 
your  future  battles  for  rights,  the  cause  of 
both  together  would  be  stronger  than  that  of 
one  alone. 

Now  I  feel  upon  this  subject,  because  1 
tliink  we  do  an  injustice  for  wliich  there  is 
now  a  remedy,  and  because  it  is  bad  policy, 
if  we  wish  our  Constitution  adopted. 

Mr.  HAYDEN.  I  did  not  intend  to  make 
another  remark  upon  this  subject,  but  I  must 
say  tliat  if  ever  I  have  known  a  person  to 
raise  a  man  of  straw  and  kick  it  over  himself, 
that  man  is  my  friend  ticross  the  wa}',  (Mr. 
Foster.)  Perhaps  I  said  as  much  in  regard 
to  principle  as  any  other  man,  and  I  have 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Satuedat,  August  8. 


393 


been  in  favor,  from"  the  first,  of  granting  to 
half-breeds  the  right  to  vote. 

Mr.  FOSTER.  I  did  not  refer  to  tlmt 
gentleman. 
Mr.  HAYDEN.  I  am  for  equal  rights. 
Mr.  PERKINS.  As  I  happened  to  be  one 
of  the  small  minority  in  the  Convention 
that  declared  themselves  in  favor  of  free- 
suffrage,  and  as  the  imputation  is  cast  very 
freely,  this  morning,  upon  us,  of  being  in 
favor  of  negro  suffrage  exclusively,  I  have  to 
say  here,  that  I  think  this  intense  sympathy 
for  half-breeds,  and  the  imputation  of  exclu- 
siveness,  comes  with  ill  grace  from  men  who 
oppose  with  all  their  might  the  idea  of  free 
suffrage  being  contained  in  the  Constitution 
of  the  United  States. 

While  I  am  in  favor  of  negro  suffrage,  I 
am  in  favor  of  allowing  half-breeds  to  vote, 
and  I  do  not  know  of  anybody  who  takes  a 
position  against  it.  I  cei-tainly  have  not  made 
any  such  declaration  of  principle  upon  this 
floor.  My  coUeage  from  Rice  county,  (Mr. 
Nobth)  was  not  able  to  see,  and  I  am  not 
able  to  see  why  the  mulatto  ought  not  to  be 
entitled  to  the  privilege  of  the  elective  fran- 
chise as  much  as  the  Indian  half-breeds — that 
is,  why  the  blood  descending  from  the  first 
families  of  Virginia  in  negro  veins,  was  not 
as  much  entitled  to  representation  in  the  Legis- 
lature, or  to  the  elective  franchise,  as  tliat  of 
the  Uquor  dealers,  gamblers,  and  traders  in 
the  veins  of  the  half-breeds  of  this  Territory. 
Now  if  anybody  can  point  out  the  reason  why 
it  ought  not  to  be,  I  will  go  in  for  excluding 
the  mulatto,  and  in  favor  of  the  half-breeds. 
Mr.  MANTOR.  I  do  not  know  but  I  am 
one  of  those  unfortunate  men  who  have  had 
imputations  cast  upon  them,  simply  because 
we  do  not  all  see  exactly  alike  upon  all  ques- 
tions before  this  Convention. 

Now,  sir,  day  before  yesterday,  under  very 
distressing  physical  prostration,  I  stood  upon 
this  floor  and  vindicated  equal  suffrage.  Yes- 
terday the  same  question  was  brought  before 
this  Convention  again,  and  it  was  advocated 
ably  by  gentlemen  upon  this  floor.  The 
question  was  tabled  last  evening,  and  there 
our  work  ended.  Yesterday  when  the  sub- 
ject was  under  discussion,  I  found  myself 
once  upon  this  floor  voting  against  a  proposi- 
tion made  by  my  friend  from  Steele  county, 
(Mr.  Coggswell)  ;  and  why  did  I  vote  against 
50 


it?  Not  simpiy  because  the  word  "  Indian,'' 
or  "  half-breed,"  was  inserted  in  that  amend- 
ment, but  because  I  saw  many  objections  to 
it,  besides  those  which  grew  out  of  the  propo- 
sition to  give  the  half-breed  the  right  to  vote. 
And,  sir,  I  cannot  but  think  to-day,  that 
these  imputations  come  with  very  bad  grace 
from  men  upon  this  floor  who  advocate  the 
rights  of  a  class  of  men  who  have  roamed 
over  our  Territory  for  a  thousand  years,  and 
in  the  next  breath  put  their  veto  upon  the 
rights  of  men  who  happen  to  come  from 
Africa. 

I  am  one  of  the  unfortunate  fifteen  or  six- 
teen who  stood  upon  this  floor,  day  before 
yesterday,  and  advocated  equal  suffrage  to 
all,  and  I  want  it  now  and  forever  distinctly 
understood,  that  I  am  in  favor  of  equal  suf- 
frage, and  shall  vote  for  it  every  time.  But, 
until  such  a  proposition  can  be  brought  be- 
fore this  Convention  in  reference  to  half-breeds 
as  shall  meet  my  candid  approbation,  and 
which  shall  not  be  liable  to  objection  after  ob- 
jection on  other  grounds,  I  shall  vote  directly 
against  it.  I  consider  that  it  is  my  right  to 
do  so.  Although  I  am  in  iavor  of  letting 
the  half-breeds  vote,  I  shall  be  found  voting 
against  any  such  propositions  as  were  made 
here  yesterday  by  some  gentlemen.  These 
imputations  are  thrown  out  for  the  very- 
reason  that  some  gentlemen  stood  up  here  and 
voted  against  those  propositions  yesterday, 
who  the  day  before  stood  here  and  advocated 
the  right  of  equal  suffrage.  And  I  am  utterly 
astonished  to  see  gentlemen  who  are  so  di- 
rectly opposed  to  free  suffrage,  stand  up  here 
and  advocate  partial  suffrage,  and  especially 
to  that  class  of  men,  who,  though  their  feel- 
ings are  in  unison  with  ours,  yet  do  not 
possess  that  entire  white  blood  which  we  have 
in  this  Convention. 

Mr.  HUDSON.  I  am  opposed  to  the 
amendment,  and  it  is  but  justice  to  myself 
that  I  explain  my  position,  and  give  the  rea- 
sons why  I  have  advocated  the  principle  of 
universal  suffrage.  I  fully  believe  in  and 
heartily  endorse  the  doctrine  contained  in  the 
amendment  to  strike  out  the  word  "  white" 
from  this  Constitution.  I  believe  the  right  of  suf- 
frage should  be  extended  to  all,  but  when  gen- 
tlemen who  approve  that  doctrine,  and  would 
have  it  read  "  every  white  male  inhabitant" 
come  here  and  ask  to  modify  that  doctrine  and 


894 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Saturday,  August  8. 


allow  a  part  of  the  colored  races  to  vote,  I 
consider  it  as  heaping  injustice  upon  a  certain 
class  that  we  have  already  trodden  beneath 
our  feet.  "We  say  that  the  descendants  of 
one  of  those  races — the  Indian — shall  have 
the  right  to  vote,  and  we  will  grant  that  with- 
out submitting  it  to  a  vote  of  the  people ;  and 
we  say  that  the  other — the  negro — shall  not 
have  the  right,  but  we  will  submit  it  to  the 
people.  Why  this  partiality  ?  WhUe  I  am 
decidedly  in  favor  of  equal  sufFcage,  I  am  not 
willing  to  acknowledge  that  I  act^  upon  any 
such  partial  principle. 

Mr.  MESSER.  Since  almost  all  who  spoke 
in  favor  of  equal  suffrage  when  this  matter 
first  came  before  us  have  seen  fit  to  say  a 
word  in  explanation,  I  will  make  one  remark. 
The  first  amendment  made  in  committee  of 
the  Whole  was  to  strike  out  the  word 
"  white."  I  offered  that  amendment,  and  I 
did  it  from  principle  and  because  I  believed 
in  universal  suffrage — not  that  I  had  any  par- 
ticular partiality  for  the  negro  race  or  for  any 
other  colored  race.  I  planted  myself  upon 
the  broad  platform  of  human  rights. 

In  regard  to  the  particular  matter  under 
consideration,  I  certainly  shall  riot  vote  against 
extending  the  privilege  of  voting  to  the  half- 
breed  Indians  of  this  Territory,  Now  I  can 
see  reasons  why  the  half-breeds  should  have 
that  privilege,  over  and  above,  if  I  may  so 
express  myself,  the  reasons  why  the  half- 
breed  negroes  should  have  the  right  to  vote. 
I  stand  upon  the  broad  platform  that  they 
should  all  have  the  right  to  vote  when  they 
become  citizens.  There  are  hundreds  of  half- 
breed  Indians  who  are  identified  with  the  his- 
tory of  this  Territory  and  who  were  here 
years  and  years  before  the  white  men  settled 
here  in  any  numbers,  and  it  seems  to  me  that 
they  should  not  be  deprived  of  the  right  of 
voting  here. 

Therefore,  although,  as  I  said,  I  have  no 
partici  lar  preference  for  the  one  over  the 
other — for  the  Indian  half-breed,  over  the  ne- 
gro half-breed— I  shall  upon  the  principle  of 
universal  suffrage,  vote  in  favor  of  the  Indian 
half-breeds.  But  I  desire  to  see  some  res- 
trictions placed  upon  that  right  which  should 
prevent  the  frauds  which  have  heretofore  been 
perpetrated  under  color  of  that  right. 

Mr.  BOBBINS.  Since  the  discussion  of 
this  question  commenced  it  has  been  my  mis- 


fortune to  be  so  ill  as  not  to  be  able  to  listen 
to  it.  I  should  like  to  have  heard  the  opin- 
ions of  every  gentleman  in  this  Convention 
up>n  this  subject.  I  feel  that  I  have  lost 
much.  Equal  suffrage,  apart  from  negro  or 
half-breed  suffrage,  is  as  dear  to  me  as  to  any 
other  man,  and  I  would  go  to  as  great  lengths 
as  any  man  in  giving  to  every  class  of  colored 
persons  an  equal  right  at  the  ballot  box.  I 
do  not  believe  that  color  is  the  true  criterion 
of  safeguards  to  be  thrown  around  our  right 
of  elective  franchise.  Color  is  a  poor  crite- 
rion by  which  to  judge  of  a  man's  intellect. 
It  seems  to  me  that  because  a  man  is  a  mu- 
latto, a  negro,  an  Irishman,  or  a  foreigner,  is 
no  reason  why  he  should  be  excluded  from 
the  ballot  box.  A  man  should  have  a  certain 
degree  of  intelligence  before  he  is  permitted 
to  vote.  And  knowledge  is  the  only  ground 
upon  which  equal  suffrage  should  be  given. 

Let  us  see  how  this  question  has  been 
managed  from  the  beginning.  'J'his  subject 
was  brought  up  in  a  caucus  meeting  of  the 
members  of  this  body,  and  each  man's  opin- 
ion was  asked  upon  it.  I  told  the  caucus  that 
I  was  in  favor  of  equal  suffrage.  I  told  them 
that  the  more  I  thought  upon  the  question 
the  more  I  thought  there  was  a  principle  in- 
volved, and  that  the  only  way  to  settle  the 
matter  to  the  satisfaction  of  every  one  was  to 
leave  the  word  "  white"  out  of  the  Constitu- 
tion, and  to  submit  the  question  to  the  people, 
and  let  them  vote  to  put  it  in. 

I  have  thought  upon  this  matter  a  longtime, 
and  although  I  have  not  had  the  pleasure  of 
listening  to  the  arguments  of  gentlemen,  I 
share  in  the  approbrium,  if  any  there  is,  cast 
upon  those  who  having  expressed  their  opin- 
ion upon  the  subject,  have  seen  fit  to  change 
their  minds  as  to  the  proper  course  to  be  pur- 
sued. If  there  is  a  principle  involved  on  the 
one  side,  there  is  a  principle  involved  on  the 
other.  If  it  is  not  a  violation  of  principles  to 
allow  the  people  to  vote  in  the  word  "  white," 
it  is  not  a  violation  of  principles  to  allow  thera 
to  vote  out  the  word  "  white."  Now  having 
thought  much  upon  the  subject,  I  have  come 
to  the  much  abused  doctrine  of  expediency, 
and  I  do  believe,  when  a  principle  is  not  com- 
promised, men  have  a  right  to  change.  I  do 
not  believe  that  party  considerations  should 
be  brought  here,  to  govern  our  action ;  but, 
as  one  gentleman  said  the  other  day,  our 


MINNESOTA  CONTENTION  DEBATES— SATrKO ay,  ArorsT  8. 


S95 


action  here  will  be  taken  as  the  action  of  a 
party;  and,  believing  that,  we  should  study 
the  interest  of  that  party,  when  we  do  not 
confiict  with  principle  in  so  doing.  Tak- 
ing that  view  of  the  subject,  I  believe  it  is 
good  policy,  and  indeed  the  only  policy  on 
which  we  can  sustain  ourselves  before  the 
people — at  least  in  my  section  of  the  county 
— to  put  the  word  "  white"  into  the  Consti- 
tution, and  let  the  people  vote  it  out  if  they 
will.  And  1  pledge  myself  in  this  Convention, 
when  our  Constitution  comes  before  the  peo- 
ple, to  use  my  utmost  endeavors  to  have  them 
vote  it  out. 

These  are  the  grounds  upon  which  I  have 
changed  my  opinion  as  to  the  proper  course 
to  pursue,  and  with  my  position  I  feel  per- 
fectly sati>fied. 

Mr.  BILLINGS.  I  move  to  amend  the 
amendment  offered  by  the  gentleman  from 
Dakota  (Mr.  Foster)  by  inserting  the  words 
•' or  African "  after  the  word  ''Indians"  so 
tliat  it  shall  read  ''  or  if  he  be  a  civilized  per- 
''  son  of  Indian  or  African  descent,  not  a  mem- 
•'  ber  of  any  tribe." 

I  have  been  confined  to  my  room  from 
indisposition  for  the  last  two  or  three  days, 
and  have  not  taken  any  part  in  this  discus- 
sion. I  propose  to  put  my  views  upon  this 
subject  in  writing  and  present  them  to  the 
Convention,  and  content  myself,  at  this  time, 
with  recording  my  vote.  The  principles  1 
maintain  now  are  the  same  as  they  were 
when  this  subject  first  arose  in  caucus.  I 
have  not  changed  my  views  of  right,  and 
hence  have  no  views  to  change  as  to  pol- 
icy. If  a  person  of  color,  being  civilized, 
has  a  right  to  vote,  I  care  not  whether  he  be- 
longs to  an  Indian  tribe  or  to  the  African 
race.  So  far  as  civilization  is  concerned,  the 
education  of  the  Indian,  if  he  have  any,  ma}' 
be  quite  as  well  questioned,  to  my  mind,  as 
the  education  of  the  African.  The  little  edu- 
cation the  African  has,  is  all  American.  He 
is  American  bom,  and  reared  among  Ameri- 
can statesmen,  and  what  he  does  know  of  civ- 
ilization is  American  civilization.  He  has,  in 
every  view  of  the  case,  preeminent  right  over 
the  Indian  who  has  never  taken  to  himself 
the  habits  and  customs  of  the  whites.  I  ob- 
ject in  most  unqualified  terms,  that  we,  as 
Republicans  or  Minnesotians,  should  at  this, 
or  any  other  time,  prosciibe  any  man  from 


'  the  full  rights  of  a  citizen  on  account  of  color, 
;  or  birth  place.     I  believe  that  to  be  anti-Re- 
j  publican,  and  anti- American,  and  upon  this 
I  rock  I  believe,  we  as  a  people  are  to  split 
{  Rather  than  do  that  wrong,  I   would   say, 
were  it  left  to  me,  let  our  Constitution  be 
rejected,  and  let  the  Republicans  of  Minne- 
sota of  1857  receive  a  check  from  the  people, 
which  will  learn  them,  in  after  time,  to  study 
the  rights  of  all,  and  carry  into  practice  what 
we  have  so  long  argued  as  principle ;  which 
we  have  set  forth  in  our  Bill  of  Rights,  and 
inscribed  upon  our  seal.     Let  us  be  true  to 
the  right,  and  to  the  age  in  which  we  live; 
true  to  our  former  declarations,  and  the  peo- 
j  pie  will  be  true  to  us.     If  the  people  are  not 
prepared  for  this,  let  us  prepare  them,  and 
I  let  us  not  ask  them  to  put  us  forward  upon 
the  vantage  ground.     If  the  principle  is  not 
right,    let    us    change    our    declaration    of 
:  rights,    and  say  that  all  persons    are    not 
'■  bom  with  certain  inalienable  rights  ;  that  all 
are  not  bom  free  and  equal ;   ard  let  us  take 
from  our  seal  the  motto  we  adopted.     Let  us 
be  consistent  with  ourselves,  and  all  the  time, 
and  not  for  one  purpose  aflBrm  a  thing,  and 
for  another  disaflBnn  it. 
Mr.  BALCOMBE.     I  do  not  propose  to 
;  discuss  this  question,  but  I  rise  simply  to  ask 
the  gentleman  if  he  will  not  withdraw  his 
amendment.     The   question    has    been   dis- 
cussed two  days  at  length — or  rather,  it  has 
;  been  discussed  at  length  upon  his  side.   Four 
long,  set  speeches  have  been  delivered  upon 
that  question,  and  it  has  probably  been  pre- 
sented by  the  gentleman  from  Rice  county 
(Me.  North)  in  as  good  a  light  as  it  po.ssibly 
I  could  be.     A  vote  was  taken  upon  the  ques- 
•  tion,  and  there  were  two  votes  to  one  against 
,  striking  out  the  word  "  white."     Since  that 
'  time  the  question  has  again  been  raised  by 
■  those  who  believe  as  he  does  and  it  was  dis 
i  cussed  at  length  a  second  time,  and  agiiin  the 
,  Convention  refused  to  strike  out  the  word 
'  '*  white  "  by  a  large  majority. 
I       Now  I  aok  the  gentleman,  whether,  under 
:  the  circumstances,  he  is  determined  to  crowd 
i  this  question  upon  us  every  day  after  it  has 
:  been  decided  time  and  again  ?     It  does  seem 
to  me  a  little  strange,  that  gentleman  who  are 
I  anxious  to  proceed  with  our  business  with  so 
{  much  speed,  should  take  up  so  much  time 
;  with  a  question  which  has  been  settled  by 


S98 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Satcbdat,  August  8. 


the  Convention.  Is  it  supposed  that  any 
gentleman  will  change  his  vote  upon  the  ques- 
tion ?    None  can  suppose  that. 

Mr.  BILLINGS.  The  gentleman  presumes 
that  persons  once  wrong  are  always  wrong. 
As  I  have  not  been  present,  I  do  not  know 
how  long  the  question  has  been  discussed. 
As  I  said  before,  I  wish  the  unanimous  con- 
sent of  the  Convention,  to  give  my  views  to 
the  reporter,  and  thereby  save  taldng  up  the 
time  of  the  Convention  in  giving  my  views  at 
length  here. 

Mr.  BALCOMBE.  I  am  perfectly  willing 
to  hear  a  speech  upon  this  or  any  other  ques- 
tion, but  I  really  object  to  going  back  half  a 
dozen  times  and  bringing  up  a  question  which 
has  been  settled.  If  the  gentleman  wants  to 
make  a  speech  upon  his  side  other  gentlemen 
will  want  to  reply.  Now  I  appeal  to  those 
gentlemen  who  agree  with  the  gentleman  who 
has  offered  the  amendment,  whether  they  will 
not  desist  from  pressing  this  subject  upon  us 
time  after  time,  when  it  has  already  been 
twice  decided  ?  I  beg  gentlemen  not  to  thus 
detain  us  day  after  day.  If  the  gentleman 
will  write  out  his  speech,  I  will  vote  to  have 
it  go  upon  the  record  of  details,  just  as  though 
he  had  delivered  it. 

Mr.  BILLINGS.  I  never  take  anything 
by  courtesy.  All  I  ask  is  a  matter  of  right. 
If  it  be  not  my  privilege,  I  ask  it  not. 

Mr.  WILSON.  Well,  I  rise  to  a  question 
of  order,  and  it  is  whether  that  amendment 
is  in  order.  It  is  the  same  question  which 
has  been  discussed  and  already  decided  twice 
in  this  Convention. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  1  would  say  that  I 
do  know,  that  the  gentleman  from  Fillmore 
(Mr.  Billings)  has  been  confined  to  his  room 
by  illness,  and  has  not  had  an  opportunity  to 
express  his  views  upon  this  question  ;  and  I, 
for  one,  am  decidedly  in  favor  of  allowing 
every  man  to  express  his  sentiments  upon  all 
and  every  subject.  I  never  did  belong  to  the 
gag  clan.  I  want  every  man  to  free  his 
mind,  and  to  deliver  himself  in  the  best  man- 
ner he  possibly  can  ;  and  if  the  gentleman 
from  Fillmore  has  any  views  to  submit  either 
to  his  constituents  or  to  this  Convention,  I 
am  decidedly  in  favor  of  hearing  them. 

It  is  true,  this  question  has  been  substan- 
tially settled,  as  stated  by  the  gentleman  from 
Winona.     It  is  true,  too,  that  it  has  been  sub- 


stantially settled  by  this  Convention,  that 
citizens  of  the  United  States  shall  not  have 
the  right  to  vote.  (Laughter.)  It  is  true, 
too,  that  it  has  been  settled  here,  that  foreign- 
ers shall  not  vote ;  and  it  is  true,  too,  that  I 
stand  here  in  favor  of  the  amendment  to  the 
amendment,  for  the  reason  that  I  want  some- 
body to  vote,  (laughter,)  and  that  I  am  wil- 
ling, if  we  cannot  have  citizens  of  the  United 
States  vote,  that  half-breed  Indians  and  ne- 
groes shall.  I  want  somebody  to  vote  for  cer- 
tain men  to  pass  laws,  to  govern  and  control 
us — and  the  half-breeds  have  controlled  us  so 
far,  and  have  done  it  pretty  well — and  now  I 
want  the  negroes  to  come  in  and  help  them. 
Then  I  think  we  shall  be  perfectly  safe. 
These  are  the  reasons  which  induce  me  to  go 
for  the  amendment  to  the  amendment,  al- 
though those  questions  have  been  settled  to 
the  same  extent  that  the  amendment  to  strike 
out  the  word  "  white"  has  been. 

Mr.  WILSON.  I  withdraw  my  objection. 
Mr.  BALCOMBE.  I  withdraw  my  objec- 
tion, and  at  the  same  time  give  notice  that  I 
shall  make  a  speech  upon  the  subject  myself. 
And  I  call  upon  every  one  of  our  friends, 
who  have  advocated  the  policy  we  have  adopt- 
ed, to  make  speeches  also,  and  let  us  have  a 
good  time  over  it. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  do  not  wish  to  occupy 
the  time  of  the  Convention.  I  have  been  as 
anxious  as  any  gentleman  in  this  Convention 
to  close  our  labors  at  the  earliest  possible  day. 
Indeed,  I  have  already  a  resolution  before  me, 
which  I  intended  to  offer,  to  close  our  pro- 
ceedings upon  a  particular  day.  But  if  we 
can  induce  the  gentleman  from  Winona,  (Mr. 
Balcombe,)  and  other  gentlemen,  who  take 
the  same  position  he  does,  to  come  out  and 
put  their  views  and  sentiments  on  this  sub- 
ject, upon  the  record,  T  am  willing  to  sit  here 
another  month. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  Who  does  not  know 
that  my  views  are  upon  the  record  ?  I  as- 
sure gentlemen  that  I  am  willing  to  give  them 
my  views  and  put  them,  with  my  vote,  upon 
the  record  from  this  until  doomsday. 

The  gentleman  who  has  offered  this  amend- 
ment was  not  here  during  the  debate.  I  am 
willing  to  let  him  speak,  for  it  is  right  that  he 
should  do  so.  But  while  I  am  in  favor  of 
that,  I  do  protest  against  men  raising  the 
same  question  day  after  day,  and  intermina- 


MINNESOTA  CONTENTION  DEBATES— Satckday,  August  8. 


397 


ably,  after  it  has  been  once  and  tvnce  settled. 
When  men  have  in  sight  twelve  good  things 
which  they  can  do,  and  a  million  good  things 
which  they  carniot  do,  I  protest,  that  because 
they  cannot  do  them  all  at  once,  they  will  re- 
fuse to  do  any. 

Mr.  COLBURX.  I  deem  it  my  duty  to 
state  that  I  do  not  understand  that  the  gen- 
tleman from  Scott  county  (Mr.  Galbraith,) 
has  defined  his  position  upon  the  amendment 
introduced  by  the  gentleman  from  Dakota 
county.  I  had  reference  to  that.  I  did  not 
i-equest  him  to  define  his  position  upon  the 
negro  question,  for  he  did  that  the  other  day. 
I  wanted  his  position  upon  the  question  raised 
by  the  gentleman  from  Dakota,  and  I  wanted 
to  know  how  his  position  upon  those  two 
questions  correspond.  I  understand  the  gen- 
tleman's position  upon  the  negro  suffrage 
question  to  be,  that  negroes  are  not  qualified 
to  Tote,  and  were  not  qualified  to  be  raised  to 
a  social  position  equal  to  the  whites. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  No  such  thing;  that 
is  another  of  those  contemptibJe  misrepresen- 
tations. ("  Order ;''  Order.")  It  has  been 
stated  here,  time  and  again,  that  I  advocated 
that  doctrine.  It  is  not  so.  I  said  that  gen- 
tlemen should  be  consistent  with  themselves, 
and  consistent  with  their  OMm  doctrine. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  do  not  wish  to  misrep- 
resent the  gentleman  fix)m  Scott  county  ;  but 
I  desire  to  understand  his  views  upon  that 
question ;  and  if  I  do  misrepresent  him,  I  re- 
quest him  to  state  his  views  again.  I  imder- 
stood  the  position  of  tliat  gentleman  to  be. 
that  we  ought  not  to  elevate  the  negro  by  ex- 
tending to  him  political  privileges,  but  by  ex- 
tending to  him  social  privileges  and  rights ; 
that  we  ought  to  raise  him  in  social  position 
before  we  do  in  a  political  position.  Is  that 
the  gentleman's  position  ? 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  I  hope  the  gentleman 
will  go  on  and  make  his  speech  if  he  wants  to 
make  one,  and  I  will  make  mine  when  I  get 
ready. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  The  gentleman,  then, 
does  not  deny  that  position  ? 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  I  deny  your  right  to 
define  my  positioa  for  me.  I  can  define  sudi 
positions  as  I  desire,  and  can  answer  such 
questions  as  I  please. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  am  sorry  to  raise  any 
excitement  by  my  remarks.    I  have  defined 


the  gentleman's  position  as  I  understood  it. 
I  do  understand  such  to  be  his  position. 
Now,  sir,  I  believe  that  both  the  negro  and 
Indian  should  enjoy  the  right  of  suffrage.  I 
believe  the  negro  should  be  as  highly  elevated 
in  social  position  as  the  Indian.  I  believe  that 
by  extending  the  right  of  suff'rage  to  the  In- 
dian, you  do  elevate  his  social  position  just  as 
much,  and  just  as  fast,  and  justaseff"ectually, 
as  you  do  the  negro  by  extending  the  right  of 
suff'rage  to  him.  I  believe,  if  there  is  any  ob- 
jection to  this  thing  of  amalgamation,  you 
will  encovu^ge  that  practice,  and  extend  it 
just  as  effectually  by  extending  the  right  of 
suff'rage  to  the  Indian,  as  you  will  by  extend- 
ing it  to  the  negro.  The  white  race  will  amal- 
gamate with  the  Indian  just  as  much  as  it 
will  with  the  negro,  provided  the  circumstan- 
ces are  the  same.  My  position  is  this  ;  if  we 
ought  not  to  encourage  amalgamation  of  ra- 
ces, and  if  elevating  them  to  political  posi- 
tions does  encourage  it,  the  gentleman  firom 
Scott  county  should  be  just  as  anxious  to  en- 
courage amalgamation  with  Indians  as  with 
negroes.  While  the  gentleman  makes  a  very 
strong  appeal  not  to  cut  off  half-breeds  be- 
cause they  own  property  around  the  Capitol 
and  elsewhere,  will  he  pretend  to  say  that 
there  are  not  mulattoes — men  of  respectabili- 
ty, education  and  talent — who  own  property 
here  and  elsewhere  throughout  the  Territory  ? 
There  is  no  argument  in  favor  of  the  half-breeds, 
but  may  be  urged  in  favor  of  the  negroes; 
and  I  cannot  understand  how  those  who  are 
opposed  to  extending  the  right  of  suffrage  to 
the  negroes,  can  advocate  its  extension  to  the 
Indian.  The  same  objections  which  are  raised 
against  the  negroes,  can  be  raised  with  equal 
force  against  the  Indians. 

Mr.  LOWE.     I  move  the  previous  question. 

Mr.  McCLURE.  I  hope  it  will  not  be  sus- 
tained, if  the  gentleman  from  Fillmore  county 
(Mr.  Billings,)  wants  to  speak. 

Mr.  BILLINGS.  I  do  not  desire  to  speak 
to-day.  I  merely  ask  the  privilege  of  submit- 
ting, in  writing,  to  the  reporter,  my  views 
upon  this  question.  My  object  in  offering  the 
amendment  to  the  amendment  was  to  get  a 
vote  of  the  Convention  upon  it,  that  I  might 
understand  what  the  views  of  the  Convention 
were.  I  have  no  objection  to  having  the  vote 
taken  at  once  upon  the  amendment,  for  then 
I  shall  have  that  information. 


398 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Sati-rdat,  Acgtist  8. 


The  previous  question  was  seconded,  and 
the  main  question  ordered  to  be  put. 

The  question  recurring  on  Mr.  Billings' 
amendment. 

Mr.  BILLINGS  called  for  the  yeas  and 
nays. 

The  yeas  and  nays  were  ordered,  and  the 
question  bemg  put  there  were  yeas  fifteen, 
nays  twenty-eight. 

Teas. — Messrs.  Aver,  Billings,  Cleghorn,  Col- 
bujn,  Coombs.  Hayden,  Hudson,  Holley,  Man'or, 
Me.<;ser,  Phelps,  Perkins,  Putnam,  Sheldon,  Se- 
combe. — 15. 

jVai/s. — Messrs.  Alarich,  Bartholemew,  Butler, 
Coggswell,  Cederstam,  Duley,  Dickerson,  Eschlie, 
Foster,  Folsom,  Galbraith,  Harding,  Hanson,  King, 
Lyle,  Lowe,  McCan,  McKune,  McClure,  Morgan, 
Mills,  Murpliy,  Robbins,  Stannard,  Vaughn,  Wat- 
son, Wilson,  Mr.  President. — 28, 

So  the  amendment  to  the  amendment  was 
rejected. 

The  question  recurring  upon  the  amend- 
ment offered  by  Mr.  Foster. 

Mr.  CLEGHORN  called  for  the  yeas  and 
nays. 

The  yeas  and  nays  were  ordered,  and  the 
question  being  put,  there  were  yeas  twenty- 
seven,  nays  fourteen,  as  follows : 

J'ea«.— Messrs.  Aldrich,  Ayer,  Bartholemew,  Bil- 
lings, Cleghorn,  Colburn,  Cederstam,  Coombs, 
Duley,  Dickerson,  Foster,  Folsom,  Hayden,  Hard- 
ing, Holley,  Lyle,  Lowe,  Mantor,  Messer,  Morgan, 
Phelps,  Perkins,  Putnam,  Stannard,  Sheldon, 
Vaughn,  Mr.  President. — 27. 

J\'ays. — Messrs.  Butler,  Coggswell,  Eschlie,  Gal- 
braith, Hudson,  Hanson,  King,  Mc  an,  McKune, 
McClure,  Murphy,  Secombe,  Watson,  Wilson. — 14. 

So  the  amendment  was  agreed  to. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  propose  the  following 
substitute  for  section  one,  as  amended — not 
intending  thereby  to  change  the  matter  of  the 
of  the  section,  but  only  the  form. 

"Sec.  1.  Any  white  male  inhabitant,  of  the 
age  of  21  years  and  upwards,  (excepting  persons 
under  guardianship,  and  persons  of  unsound  mind) 
who  shall  have  resided  in  the  State  six  months, 
and  in  the  town,  ward  or  precinct  in  which  he  may 
claim  the  right  to  rote,  lor  ten  days  next  preceding 
any  election,  shall  be  entitled  to  vote  at  such  elec- 
tion, if  he  belong  to  either  of  the  following  classes, 
to-wit : 

"  1.    Citizens  of  the  United  States. 

"  2.  Persons  who  have  resided  in  the  United 
States  two  years  next  preceding  the  electioD  at 
which  they  tlien  claim  the  right  to  vote. 

"  8.  PetsoDR  who  sliall  be  residents  of  the  State 
at  the  time  of  the  adoption  of  this  Constitution : 

Procidtd  always,  tbut  no  person  who  is  an  alien 


by  birth,  and  not  a  citizen  of  the  United  States, 
shall  be  a  qualified  elector,  until  he  shall  have  de- 
clared his  intention  to  become  a  citizen  in  conform- 
ity with  the  laws  of  the  United  States  on  the  sub- 
ject of  naturalization." 

The  object  of  my  amendment  is  to  place  the 
matter  in  a  more  definite  form.  It  does  not 
differ  materially  from  the  section  as  it  now 
stands,  and  I  must  say  with  all  due  deference 
to  the  committee  who  drew  up  the  provision 
that  it  took  me  at  least  two  days  to  determine 
in  my  own  mind  just  what  it  meant,  and  what 
class  of  persons  would  be  entitled  to  vote  un- . 
der  it.  Perhaps  my  mind  is  more  obtuse  than 
that  of  others,  and  perhaps  I  look  upon  it  in 
a  different  light  from  what  others  do.  My 
proposition  defines  the  class  of  persons  who 
are  to  be  entitled  to  the  elective  franchise  un- 
der the  third  clause^  and  it  can  be  discovered 
at  a  glance  who  they  are.  A  provision  of  the 
Constitution  of  so  great  importance,  should 
be  put  in  the  best  possible  language.  I  think 
it  does  not  interfere  with  the  provis^ion  of  the 
amendment  just  adopted.  If  I  understand 
that,  it  is,  that  civilized  Indians  not  belonging 
to  any  tribe  shall  have  the  right  to  vote.  If 
that  is  so,  the  term  "  alien "  as  used  in  the 
substitute  offered  by  myself  does  not  include 
such  a  person.  I  understand  that  there  ijiay 
be  persons,  who,  while  they  are  not  citizens, 
are  not  aliens.  They  may  be  some  where 
half  way  between ;  and  a  civilized  Indian  not 
belonging  to  any  tribe,  while  he  would  not  be 
a  citizen  of  the  United  States,  yet  might  not 
be  an  alien.  If  however  it  might  be  consid- 
ered that  it  is  not  explicit  enough,  an  amend- 
ment might  be  made  to  except  the  class  of 
persons  meant  in  the  amendment,  in  terms 
like  the  following: 

"  Except  civilized  Indians  not  belonging  to  any 
tribe." 

I  hope  a  substitute  substantially  like  the 
one  1  have  offered  will  be  adopted,  so  as  to 
state  specifically  the  class,  who  will  have  the 
right  to  vote.  " 

Mr.  LOWE.  I  hope  the  substitute  will  be 
rejected.  I  think  the  provision  as  it  now 
stands  is  clear  enough.  If  we  go  into  a  dassi- 
lication  there  will  be  no  end  to  it.  It  seems 
to  me  we  have  had  enough  discussion  about 
suffrage,  and  I  hope  the  Convention  will  vote 
down  this  amendment  and  all  others. 

Mr.  FOSTER.  I  would  suggest  to  the 
gentleman  to  modify  his  substitute  by  insert- 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Sattbdat,   Acgust  8. 


ing  after  the  words  "United  States"  where  ]  allowed  to  vote,  that  it  is  the  desire  of  the 
it  first  occurs  in  the  first  clause  the  words  \  people  to  have  restrictions  thrown  around 


"  civilized  persons  of  Indian  descent  and  not  ; 
"members  of  any  tribe,  excepted.'' 

Mr.  SECOMBE.     I  ex-ept  the  modification 
suggested   by  the  gentleman   from   Dakota,  ' 
as  it  involves  the  principle  just  adopted  by  ' 

the  Convention.     It  will  then  read—  i 

I 
"  T/'iird— Persons  who  shall  be  residents  of  the  ' 
State  at  the  time  of  the  adoption  of  this  Const i"  , 
tution.  provided,  always,  that  no  person  who  is  ; 
an  alien  by  birth,  and  not  a  citizen  of  the  United  • 
States,  (civilized  persons  of  Indian  descent,  and  , 
not  members  of  any  tribe  excepted)  shall  b«  a  ' 
qualified  elector,  until  he  shall  have  declared  his  1 
intention  to  become  a  citizen  of  the  United  States,  j 
in  conformity  with  the  laws  on  naturalization."        \ 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  If  I  understand  the  : 
nature  of  that  amendment,  it  requires  that  f 
persons  of  Indian  descent  shall  declare  their  j 
intention  to  become  citizens  of  the  United  i 
States. 
Mr.  SECOMBE.  They  are  excepted. 
Mr.  COGGSWELL.  ViU  the  Clerk  read  , 
it  again.  ; 

Th3  clause  was  again  reaH.  , 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.     So  far  as  I  am  con-  i 
cerned,  I  am  decidedly  opposed  to  half-blood  • 
Indians,  or  half-breeds,  or  quarter-breeds,  or  j 
any  other  kind  of  breeds  voting,  unless  it  is  j 
under  restrictions  which  will   fully  provide 
against  abuses  of  that  right.     I  do  not  pre- 
tend to  say  that  I  am  not  opposed  to  allowing 
full-blooded  Indians,  who  can  read  and  write 
to  vote ;  but  I  am  opposed  to  having  the  mat- 
ter so  arranged  in  our  Constitution  that  that 
right  and  that  privilege  can  be  abused.     I  ara 
satisfied  that  it  will  be  abused  if  it  is  couched 
in  the  language  of  that  substitute.     I  ,know 
that  in  Wisconsin,  under  a  clause  substan- 
tially like  that,  the  right  and  privilege  has 
been  abused,  and  I  know  of  no  reason  why 
we  should  not  come  to  the  conclusion  that 
the  same  will  be  the  case  here. 

I  voted  against  the  amendment  proposed 
by  the  gentleman  from  Fillmore  county  (Mr. 
Billings)  in  regard  to  negroes,  for  the  reason 
that  I  supposed  the  general  understanding 
was  that  there  shall  be  a  clause  substantially 
in  the  shape  of  a  separate  proposition,  author- 
izing negroes  to  vote,  provided  it  is  the  wish 
and  desire  of  the  people  to  allow  them  to  do 
so.  I  know,  also,  if  thjse  full-blooded  civi- 
lized   Indians,    and    those    half-breeds    are 


that  right  in  such  a  manner  as  to  prevent  the 
abuse  of  that  right — to  prevent  fuU-bloooded 
Indians,  who  have  not  adopted  the  habits  and 
customs  of  civilized  life,  and  to  prevent  tho 
full-blooded  Indians,  whose  hands  are  now 
reeking  with  the  blood  of  the  white  man.  from 
controlling  this  Territory.  I  will  not  vote  for 
any  amendment  of  that  character,  unless 
those  restrictions  are  provided  for. 

The  question  was  taken  on  Mr.  Secombe's 
substitute,  and  it  was  not  agreed  to. 

Mr.  HAYDEN.  I  move  that  the  gentle- 
man from  Fillmore  county  (Mr.  Billixrs) 
have  the  privilege  of  putting  his  views  of  this 
matter  upon  the  record,  by  handing  the  same 
to  the  reporter  in  writing. 
The  motion  was  agreed  to. 
Mr.  McKUNE  moved  (at  eleven  o'clock 
and  thirty  minutes)  that  the  Convention 
adjourn. 

The  motion  was  not  agreed  to. 
Mr.  ALDRICH.      I  move  to  amend  the 
first  section  by  adding  thereto  the  following 
proviso : 

"  Provided,  That  no  person  shall  at  any  time  be 
allowed  to  vote  upon  any  proposition  to  impose  a 
tax,  or  for  the  expenditure  of  money,  in  any  town 
or  city,  unless  he  shall  within  the  year  next  prece- 
ding have  paid  a  tax  assi  ssed  upon  property  in 
said  town  or  city,  valued  at  one  hundred  and  fifty 
dollars." 

I  wish  simply  to  say  that  the  proviso  does 
;  not  restrict  any  man  in  votmg  at  the  elec- 
,  tion  of  any  ofiBoer  of  State,  county,  city  or 
i  town.  It  simply  prohibits  a  person  having 
\  no  property,  or  property  of  only  a  very  small 
•  amount,  from  voting  to  impose  a  tax  upon  the 
!  property  of  his  fellow-citizens,  or  for  the 
expenditure  of  any  money  raised  by  taxation. 
'  [  do  not  see  as  any  one  can  find  fault  with 
'  that. 

\      Mr.  WILSON.  Would  it  not  exclude  a  poor 
man  from  voting  for  school  taxes  ?    A  great 
many  who  have  not  property  of  the  amount 
specified,  have  children  to  send  to  school,  and 
they  feel  a  great  interest  in  that  matter.     I 
\  am  not  inclined  to  vote  for  anything  that  will 
I  exclude  any  man  from  voting  for  school  taxes. 
j  If  our  schools  were  left  to  be  controlled  by 
!  rich  men,  we  should  have  no  schools. 
I      Mr.  ALDRICH.     I  wiU  modify  the  amend- 
ment, and  except  school  taxes. 


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MDTNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Satubdat,  AtJorsT  8. 


Mr.  FOSTER.  I  am  opposed  to  the  prin- 
ciple of  the  whole  thing.  It  looks  too  much 
like  property  qualification,  and  will  make  a 
bad  impression.  I  take  it  that  the  aggregate 
wealth  of  individuals  is  the  aggregate  wealth 
of  the  State,  and  it  is  really  the  whole  labor 
and  capital  of  the  community  that  bears  the 
burdens  of  taxation.  The  poor  man  pays  his 
share  of  the  tax  ;  taxes  are  included  by  the 
landlord,  in  estimating  his  rents.  It  is  like 
entries  paid  in  at  the  custom  house.  The 
duty  is  really  paid  by  the  consumer,  though 
paid  at  the  time  by  the  importer.  So  it  is  as 
to  taxes  upon  property.  Those  who  rent  a 
house,  or  a  farm,  in  reality  pay  the  taxes 
upon  that  house  or  farm.  I  am  opposed  to  it 
upon  principle,  as  well  as  upon  policy. 

Mr.  CO  LB  URN.  I  hope  the  amendment 
will  not  prevail.  It  smacks  too  much  of  prop- 
erty qualification.  I  had  hoped  that  nothing 
of  that  kind  would  be  incorporated  into  our 
Constitution,  in  any  way  or  form.  As  that 
amendment  certainly  involves  the  principle  of 
property  qualification,  I  cannot  support  it. 

Mr.  ALDRICH.  As  the  amendment  seems 
to  meet  with  great  opposition,  I  will  with- 
draw it. 

Mr.  CLEGHORN  moved  to  amend  the  first 
section  by  adding  the  following  proviso : 

"  Provided,  also,  that  the  Legislature  may,  atany 
time,  extend  by  law  the  right  of  suffrage  to  per- 
sons not  herein  enumerated ;  but  no  such  law  shalj 
have  any  force  until  it  shall  have  been  submitted 
to  the  people  at  some  general  election,  and  ap- 
proved by  a  majority  of  all  the  votes  cast  at  such 
election." 

The  amendment  was  agreed  to. 

Mr.  EOWE.  I  have  an  amendment  which 
was  suggested  by  the  remarks  of  the  gentle- 
man from  Steele  county  (Mr.  Coggswell). 
I  move  to  add  to  the  first  section  the  follow- 
ing provision : 

"  Provided,  That  the  right  of  persons  of  Indian 
descent  and  of  Indians  who  have  assumed  the 
habits  of  civilized  life,  to  exercise  the  right  of 
sufirage,  shall  be  exercised  under  such  regulations 
as  the  Legislature  may,  from  time  to  time  ordain.' 

The  objection  of  the  gentleman  from  Steele 
County  is  entitled  to  much  weight.  It  is  no- 
torious that  the  right  of  suffrage  enjoyed  by 
Indians  in  this  Territory  is  abused  to  an  ex- 
tent tliat  requires  it  to  be  placed  under  pecu- 
liar regulations.  I  therefore  propose  the 
amen  iment  in  order  to  place  the  right  of  suf- 
frage, so  far  as  the  Indians  arc  concerned, 


peculiarly  under  the  control  of  the  Legisla- 
ture. 

The  amendment  was  agreed  to, 

Mr.  CLEGHORN.  As  provision  has  now 
been  made  in  regard  to  Indian  suflfrage,  I 
move  to  strike  out  section  nine. 

The  amendment  was  agreed  to. 

Mr.  FOSTER.  I  would  suggest  that  in 
the  amendment  offered  by  the  gentleman  fi*om 
Fillmore  County  (Mr.  Cleghorn)  there  is  an 
omission  of  one  or  two  words,  which  should 
be  supplied.  It  was  no  doubt  intended  by 
the  mover  of  that  amendment  that  the  law 
should  be  "  approved  by  a  majority  of  all  the 
"  votes  cast  on  that  mbject  at  such  election." 
The  words  "on  that  subject"  are  omitted.  I 
move  to  insert  them. 

The  amendment  was*agi'eed  to. 

The  report  was  then  ordered  to  be  engrossed 
for  a  third  reading. 

FINAL  ADJOURNMENT. 

Mr.  COLBURN  ofiFered  the  following  reso- 
lution : 

"  Pesolved,  That  this  Convention  adjourn  with- 
out day,  on  Thursday,  the  thirteenth  instant." 

Mr.  FOSTER.  I  suppose  that  resolution 
lies  upon  the  table  for  the  day,  under  the 
rule. 

The  PRESIDENT.  If  the  gentleman  dis- 
cusses it. 

Mr.  FOSTER.  1  think  we  are  hardly 
ready  now  to  fix  so  early  a  day  as  that  named 
in  the  resolution.  If  we  get  away  as  early  as 
next  Saturday,  we  shall  do  well.  I  tliink  we 
can  fix  upon  the  day  of  adjournment  a  day 
or  two  before  we  get  through,  better  than  we 
can  now. 

The  resolution  was  laid  over  under  the 
rule. 

And  then  on  motion  of  Mr.  HARDING,  (at 
twelve  o'clock)  the  Convention  then  took  a 
recess  until  half  past  two. 

AFTERNOON  SESSION. 

The  Convention  was  called  to  order  at  half 
past  two  o'clock. 

JUDICIABV   DEPARTMENT. 

On  motion  of  Mr.  COLBURN,  the  Conven- 
tion resolved  itself  into  a  committee  of  the 
Whole,  (Mr.  Colburn  in  the  Chair)  upon  the 
report  of  the  committee  on  the  Judiciary  De- 
partment. 
(For  report  see  proceedings  of  August  5th.  I 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Satubdat,  Adgcst  8. 


401 


The  report  was  read  by  sections  for  amend 
ment. 

"  Sectiox  1 .  The  court  for  the  trial  of  impeach- 
ments shall  be  composed  of  the  Senate.  The 
House  of  Representatives  shall  hare  the  power  of 
impeaching  all  civil  officers  of  this  State  for  cor- 
rupt conduct  in  office,  or  for  crimes  and  misde- 
meanors ;  but  a  majority  of  all  the  members  elec- 
ted shall  concur  in  such  impeachment.  On  the 
trial  of  an  impeachment  against  the  Governor,  the 
Lieutenant  Governor  shall  not  act  as  a  member  of 
the  court.  Xo  judical  officer  shall  exercise  his  of- 
fice after  he  shall  have  been  impeached  until  his 
acquittal.  Before  the  trial  of  an  impeachment  the 
members  of  the  court  shall  take  an  oath  or  affir- 
mation truly  and  impartially  to  try  the  impeach- 
ment according  to  evidence,  and  no  person  shall  be 
convicted  without  the  concurrence  of  two-thirds 
of  the  members  present.  Judgment  in  case  of  im- 
peachment shall  not  extent  further  than  to  removal 
from  office,  or  removal  from  office  and  disqualifi- 
cation to  hold  any  office  of  honor,  profit  or  trust, 
under  the  State ;  but  the  party  impeached  shall  be 
liable  to  indictment,  trial  and  ponishment  accord- 
ing to  law." 

Mr.  McKUNE.  I  move  to  strike  out  section 
one.  The  same  subject  matter  is  contained 
in  the  report  of  the  committee  on  Impeach- 
ment and  Removal  from  Office. 

Mr.  WILSON.  I  would  remark  that  this 
report  was  prepared  before  the  committee  had 
seen  that  report.  For  that  reason  they  came 
in  confiict. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to. 

"  Sec.  2.  The  judicial  power  of  this  State  both 
as  to  the  matters  of  law  and  equity,  shall  be  in- 
vested in  a  supreme  court,  circuit  colirts,  probate 
courts,  and  in  justices  of  the  peace.  Municipal 
courts  of  limited  criminal  and  civil  jurisdiction,  may 
also  be  established  by  the  Legislature  in  cities;  pro- 
vided that  municipal  courts  shall  not  have  jurisdic- 
tion in  their  respective  municipalities  to  extend  the 
jurisdiction  of  circuit  courts,  in  their  respective 
circuits.  The  judges  of  the  municipal  courts  shall 
be  elected  by  the  qualified  electors  of  their  res- 
pective jurisdictions,  and  for  a  term  not  longer 
than  that  of  the  judges  of  the  circuit  courts." 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  move  to  amend  that 
section  by  striking  out  the  words  "  municipal 
"  courts  of  limited  criminal  and  civil  jurisdic- 
"  tion,  may  also  be  established  by  the  Legis- 
"  lature ;  provided,  that  the  mvmicipal  courts 
"  shall  not  have  jurisdiction  in  their  respective 
"municipalities  to  exceed  the  jurisdiction  of 
"  circuit  courts  in  their  respective  cities,"  and 
insert  in  lieu  thereof,  the  words : 

"  And  in  such  other  courts  of  limited,  civil  and 
criminal  jurisdiction,  as  the  Legislature  may  from 

51 


time  to  time  establish ;  provided,  that  the  jurisdic- 
tion of  no  such  additional  court  shall  exceed  the 
jurisdiction  of  the  circuit  courts  in  their  respec- 
tive circuits." 

Mr.  CLEGHORN.  I  hope  the  amendment 
will  not  prevail.  It  seems  to  me  that  the 
language  used  in  this  section  is  unexceptioR- 
able,  and  I  do  not  believe  it  can  be  improved. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  The  language  used  is 
very  good  for  the  purpose  for  which  it  is  used. 
It  is  very  good  language  to  authorize  the  es- 
tablishment of  municipal  courts,  and  that 
alone.  If  it  is  desirable  to  establish,  or  to 
authorize  the  legislature  to  establish  any 
other  courts  than  municipal  courts,  of  course 
it  is  not  the  right  language.  Now  I  myself 
am  in  favor  of  county  courts  in  some  instan- 
ces. It  seems  to  me  that  the  object  of  courts 
is  that  the  people  may  have  speedy  justice. 
I  presume  there  will  not  be  to  exceed  six  or 
seven  circuits  in  the  State — perhaps  not  so 
many  as  that.  Consequently  each  circuit 
will  comprise  a  nxmiber  of  counties.  I  do 
not  know  how  many  coimties  there  are  in  the 
State,  but  there  are  a  great  many.  And  it 
will  be  provided,  either  by  this  article  or  bv 
law,  that  there  shall  be  held  in  each  county 
of  the  circuit  a  certain  number  of  court  terms. 
This  very  report  provides  that  there  shall  be 
held  in  each  county  of  the  Territory,  two 
terms  of  the  circuit  coiurt  each  year.  Sup- 
pose there  should  be  held  in  each  county  two 
temis,  it  would,  from  the  necessity  of  the 
case  prevent  the  holding  of  more  than  two 
terms.  Consequently  there  would  be  six 
months  intervening  between  the  terms.  Now 
there  is  a  lai^  amoimt  of  business  in  tha 
State,  in  cases  involving  a  sum  which  is  above 
the  ordinary  amount  over  which  a  justice  of 
the  peace  has  jurisdiction — between  the  simis 
of  one  and  five  hundred  dollars — and  it  is 
very  desirable  that  suits  of  that  nature  should 
be  disposed  of  with  speed.  Now  I  would  be 
in  favor,  under  certain  circumstances,  of 
authorizing  a  county  to  establish  a  county 
court  which  might  have  terms  held  once  in 
two  or  three  months,  or  even  once  a  month 
with  jury  trial,  and  jurisdiction  between  one 
and  five  hundred  dollars,  and  no  appeal  firom 
a  jury  trial. 

There  are  objections  raised  to  the  system 
of  County  Courts,  and  there  are  arguments 
in  favor  of  it  My  object  is,  if  it  is  the  wish 
of  this  Convention,  that  the  L^islature  may 


402 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Satubdat,  August  8. 


have  power  to  establish  such  Coxirts,  if  they 
think  it  would  be  beneficial,  in  addition  to 
those  already  provided  for ;  and  that  this  Con- 
stitution may  not  limit  us  merely  to  Municipal 
Courts. 

The  amendment  was  not  agreed  to. 

"  Sec.  3.  The  Supreme  Court  shall  consist  of 
three  Judges,  a  majority,  of  whom  shall  constitute 
a  quorum,  and  a  concurrence  of  two  of  said  Judges 
shall  in  all  cases  be  necessary  to  a  decision.  The 
Judges  of  the  Supreme  Court  shall  be  elected  for 
the  term  of  nine  years." 

Mr.  HARDING.  I  move  to  amend  by  stri- 
king from  the  last  line  the  word  "  nine,"  and 
insert  "  six."  I  am  opposed  to  any  man  hold- 
ing oflQce  that  length  of  time,  without  giving 
the  people  the  opportunity  of  making  a  change. 

The  amendment  was  not  agreed  to. 

"  Sec.  5.  The  State  shall  be  divided  into  three 
districts— such  districts  shall  be  formed  of  con- 
tiguous territory,  as  nearly  equal  in  population  as, 
without  dividing  a  county,  the  same  can  be  made. 
One  of  the  Judges  of  the  Supreme  Court  shall  be 
elected  by  the  qualified  electors  of  each  district, 
and  he  shall  reside  therein  during  his  continuance 
in  oCace." 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  offer  the  following  sub- 
stitute for  that  section : 

"Sec.  5.  The  Judges  of  the  Supreme  Court 
•hall  be  elected  by  the  qualified  electors  of  the 
State  on  a  general  ticket." 

I  offer  it  because  I  think  it  provides  for  a 
better  way  of  electing  Judges  of  the  Supreme 
Court.  I  do  not  know  of  an  instance  where 
the  Judges  of  the  highest  Court  are  elected 
in  the  manner  proposed  here. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.     In  Illinois. 

Mr.  HUDSON.     And  in  Michigan. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  It  seems  to  me  that  it  is 
not  the  proper  way.  These  Judges  are  to  sit 
for  the  whole  State.  They  are  not  expected 
to  have  any  local  interest  or  feeling,  and  they 
ought  not  to  have. 

The  amendment  was  not  agreed  to. 

"Sec.  13.  The  State  shall  be  divided  by  coun- 
ties into Judicial  Circuits.    A  Judge  for  each 

Circuit  shall  be  elected  by  the  voters  thereof  for 
the  term  of  six  years.  He  shall  reside  within  the 
Circuit  for  which  he  was  elected  during  his  contin- 
uance in  oflQce.  The  Legislature  may,  by  law,  in- 
crease the  number  of  Circuits  as  may  become  ne- 
cessary." 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  The  committee  have 
not  filled  the  blank  in  this  section.  It  is  a 
mere  matter  of  opinion,  and  without  argument 
at  all ;  I  will  move  to  fill  the  blank  with  "  six." 


I  would  suggest  that  gentlemen  look  over 
their  different  localities  and  express  their  opin- 
ions upon  it,  if  they  differ  with  me.  We 
were  unable,  in  the  committee,  to  fill  it. 

The  amendment  was  agreed  to. 

"  Sec.  14.  Each  Circuit  Judge  shall  hold  Court 
at  least  twice  a  year,  in  every  county  within  his 
Circuit,  organized  for  judicial  purposes.  The 
Judges  of  the  Circuit  Court  may  hold  terms  for 
each  other,  and  shall  do  so  when  required  by  law." 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  Though  I  have  been  un- 
successful thus  far,  I  will  yet  move  to  amend 
this  section.  I  think  it  is  a  bad  principle  to 
have  the  Constitution  determine  that  there 
shall  be  held  two  terms  of  the  Court  each 
year  in  every  organized  county.  It  will  put 
the  counties  to  great  expense,  when  a  great 
many  of  them  will  not  have  inhabitants  enough 
to  furnish  grand  and  pettit  jurors — certainly 
not  enough  for  jurors  and  witnesses  both. 

Mr.  McKUNE.  I  do  not  understand  that 
the  section  means  every  organized  county,  but 
every  county  organized  for  judicial  purposes. 
Such  a  judicial  organization  may  be  composed 
of  half  a  dozen  counties. 

No  amendment  being  offered,  the  section 
was  passed  by — 

"  Sec.  15.  There  shall  be  elected  by  the  quali- 
fied electors  of  each  county  organized  for  judicial 
purposes  one  Clerk  of  the  Circuit  Court,  who  shall 

hold  his  oiBce  for years,  and  until  his  successor 

shall  be  elected  and  qualified.  The  Judge  of  any 
Circuit  Court  may  fill  any  vacancy  in  the  oflice  of 
Clerk  until  the  same  can  be  filled  by  election.  The 
County  Clerk  may  be  chosen  or  elected  Clerk  of 
the  Circuit  Court." 

Mr.  CLEGHORN.  I  moved  that  the  blank 
be  filled  with  "  two." 

The  amendment  was  agreed  to. 

"  Sec.  19.  There  shall  be  established  in  each 
county  organized  for  judicial  purposes  a  Probate 
Court — holden  by  one  Judge,  elected  by  the  voters 
of  the  county — who  shall  hold  his  office  for  the 
term  of  two  years,  and  until  his  successor  is  elected 
and  qualified.  He  shall  receive  such  compensation 
as  shall  be  prescribed  by  law." 

Mr.  LYLE.  It  is  not  very  probable  that 
lawyers  will  be  elected  for  Probate  Judges, 
but  rather  a  class  of  men  who  are  qualified 
for  the  office  of  Justice  of  the  Peace.  The 
Probate  offico  is  of  great  importance  to  the 
jV;ople,  and  it  would  take  an  individual  a 
whole  year  to  qualify  himself  to  perform  the 
duties  of  that  oflBce,  after  spending  his  whole 
time,  and  being  to  the  expense  of  purchasing 
necessary  books.   And  he  would  only  have  one 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Satcbdat,  August  8. 


403 


year  after  that  in  which  to  perform  liis  duties. 
I  move  to  strike  out  "  two"  and  insert  "  four." 
I  think  if  gentlemen  wiU  look  at  the  matter, 
they  will  come  to  the  conclusion  that  it  is 
right  and  proper  to  make  the  term  longer,  in 
order  to  give  the  incumbents  a  better  oppor- 
tunity to  qualify  themselves  for  the  station. 

Mr.  WILSON.  I  think  myself  the  time 
should  be  longer,  and  I  think  so,  for  the  rea- 
sons mentioned  by  my  friend  fi'om  Mower 
county.  No  lawyer  will  accept  the  office,  and 
by  the  time  the  incumbents  are  turned  out  of 
office  they  will  have  but  just  become  qualified 
for  their  duties. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  So  far  as  I  am  con- 
cerned, I  am  decidedly  opposed  to  striking  out 
the  word  "  two,"  and  inserting  "  four."  If, 
as  has  been  said  here,  we  are  to  have  men 
elected  to  that  office  who  know  nothing  about 
their  duties,  I  think  we  should  look  to  the 
road  at  the  other  end,  through  which,  or  over 
which,  we  can  pass  them  out.  Now  I  have 
had  some  little  experience  in  matters  of  this 
kind,  and  I  have  always  found  the  practical 
result  to  be,  that  if  men  were  elected  to  that 
office  who  had  some  little  smattering  of  legal 
knowledge,  and  who  performed  their  duties 
well  for  two  years,  they  are  re-elected  for  two 
years  more ;  but  if  they  are  incompetent  for 
the  first  two  years,  they  are  thrown  aside  and 
somebody  else  is  elected  in  their  places. 
The  two  year's  sj'stem  has  given  better  satis- 
faction than  the  four  year's  system.  I  could 
point  out  an  instance  where  a  man  got  into 
that  office  for  four  years,  who  knew  as  much 
of  probate  matters  as  any  of  us  here,  but 
who,  fi-om  an  inclination  not  to  discharge  his 
duties,  became  odious  to  the  people.  But  the 
people  had  no  remedy,  and  they  were  com- 
pelled to  bear  with  him  'till  the  expiration  of 
the  four  years.  If  they  are  any  way  tracta- 
ble, ot  course,  they  can  get  some  little  know- 
ledge of  their  duties  long  before  the  expiration 
of  two  years ;  and  if  they  discharge  their  du- 
ties faithfully  they  are  re-elected,  and  if  they 
do  not,  two  years  is  long  enough. 

Mr.  MURPHY.  I  hope  the  provision  will 
remain  as  it  is.  For  the  welfare  of  the  md- 
ows,  I  am  in  favor  of  allowing  it  to  remain. 
If  a  man  has  the  proper  qualifications  he  can 
learn  the  duties  of  the  office  in  less  than  one 
year,  and  if  he  cannot,  two  years  is  as  long 
as  he  should  be  kept  in  office.    I  Lave  seen 


many  instances  where  men,  elected  to  the 
office  of  Probate  Judge,  were  not  fit  for  their 
duties,  and  under  tliis  amendment,  we  covdd 
not  get  rid  of  them  for  four  years. 

The  amendment  was  not  agreed  to. 
"Sec.  23.  The  Legislature  shall  have  power  to  vest 
in  the  clerks  of  the  supreme  and  circuit  courts,  or  of 
such  other  courts  as  may  be  established  hj  the 
Legislature,  authority  to  grant  such  orders  and  do 
such  acts  as  may  be  deemed  necessary  for  the  fur- 
therance of  the  administration  of  justice — but  in 
all  cases  the  powers  thus  granted  shall  be  specific 
and  determined. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  I  think  it  must  have 
been  the  intention  of  the  committee  to  have 
inserted  the  words  "of  record"  after  the 
word  "  courts,"  where  it  occurs  the  second 
time.     I  move  that  it  be  inserted. 

Mr.  PERKINS.  I  hope  the  amendment 
will  not  be  adopted.  It  seems  to  me  to  be 
unnecessary,  for  courts  of  justices  of  the 
peace  have  no  clerks.  If  the  Legislature 
should  see  fit  to  establish  other  courts,  not 
courts  of  record,  it  might  be  deemed  advisa- 
ble that  they  should  have  clerks,  and  I  see 
no  reason  why  they  might  not  have  the  same 
powers  in  this  respect  as  clerks  of  courts  of 
record. 

Mr.  WILSON.  I  think,  by  afl  means  it 
should  be  "  courts  of  record."  Whether  there 
shall  be  established  any  other  courts  or  not,  I 
do  not  want  their  clerks  to  have  any  such 
powers  as  are  conferred  here.  The  amend- 
ment was  agreed  to. 

"  Sec.  25.  A  competent  number  of  Justices  of 
the  Peace  shall  be  elected  by  the  electors  in  the 
several  counties.  Their  term  of  office  shall  be 
two  years,  and  their  powers  and  duties  shall  be 
regulated  by  law. 

Mr.  KING.  I  should  like  to  know  how 
that  competent  number  is  to  be  ascertained  ? 

Mr.  WILSON.  The  Legislature  have  that 
matter  in  charge. 

Mr.  WATSON.  I  move  to  amend  by 
striking  out  "two"  and  inserting  "three.' 
For  the  last  few  years  I  have  lived  in  a  State 
where  justices  held  their  offices  five  years.  I 
think  two  years  too  short  a  term. 

The  amendment  was  not  agreed  to. 

"  Sec.  26.  There  shall  be  an  Attorney  General 
elected  by  the  voters  of  the  State,  whose  term  of 
office  shall  be  two  years,  and  until  his  successor 
is  elected  and  qualified,  and  whose  duties  shall  be 
prescribed  by  law." 

Mr.  KING.    I  move  to  strike  out  section 


404 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Sat  today,  August  8. 


six.  That  provision  is  embraced  in  the  report 
on  State  oflBcers,  other  than  Executive.  That 
report  has  been  considered,  and  ordered  to 
be  engrossed  for  a  third  reading. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to. 

"  Sec.  28.  If  any  cause  shall  be  pending  in  the 
Supreme  Court  in  which  any  two  of  the  Judges 
thereof  shall  be  personally  interested,  the  Gover- 
nor shall  appoint  competent  persons  to  act  as  jud- 
ges during  the  trial  of  such  cause  in  the  place  of 
the  judges  thus  interested. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  There  seems  to  be 
a  little  inconsistency  in  section  twenty-eight. 
/Suppose  one  of  the  judges  should  be  in- 
terested and  only  one,  and  then  suppose  the 
other  two  are  unable  to  agree ;  what  is  to  be 
done  ?  Now  we  have  another  provision  ma- 
king it  indispensably  necessary  that  two  jud- 
ges should  concur  in  any  decision,  otherwise 
it  is  not  a  decision.  The  contingency  might 
possibly  arise  where  the  two  judges  remaining 
could  not  agree.  In  that  case,  of  course,  no 
decision  could  be  made. 

No  amendment  was  offered  and  the  section 
was  passed  over. 

Mr.  FOLSOM.  Mr.  Ciiaibman,  I  have  an 
amendment  to  offer  to  section  fourteen.  I 
I  move  to  amend,  by  striking  out  all  after  the 
word  "  hold,"  in  the  first  Hne,  and  inserting 
these  words  :  "  AS  many  terms  of  court  in 
"  every  county  organized  for  judicial  purpo- 
"  ses  within  his  circuit  as  may  be  ordained  by 
"law;"  so  that  the  section  will  read:  "each 
"circuit  judge  shall  hold  as  many  terms  of 
"  court,  &c." 

My  object  is  to  save  expense.  I  live  in  a 
county  of  4,000  inhabitants,  and  the  people 
there  have  never  asked  for  more  than  one 
term  in  the  year.  They  do  not  desire  any 
more ;  and  there  are  many  other  counties  that 
do  not  require  more  than  one  tenn.  Then 
there  will  be  new  counties  organized  in  remote 
parts  of  the  State,  Where  it  would  bo  impos- 
sible for  the  judge  to  attend  twice  a  year,  and 
where  his  duties  would  not  be  required  if  he 
should  attend.  I  remember  we  had  an  exam- 
ple of  this  kind  in  the  Stato  of  Wisconsin — 
in  La  Point,  and  other  new  counties,  they 
were  compelled  in  this  way  to  hold  two  terms 
a  year ;  and  there  were  cases  there  in  which 
the  Judge  had  traveled  150  miles  to  hold 
court,  and  when  he  got  there  no  court  could 
be  convened,  because  the  people  did  not  re- 
quire it.     I  hope  the  Convention  will  look  at 


this  'matter  before  passing  upon  it.  If  the 
people  should  want  more  than  one  session,  it 
wDl  be  an  easy  matter  for  the  Legislature  to 
provide  for  them.  I  am  satisfied  that  the 
people  of  my  county  do  not  desire  more  than 
one  session  in  the  year. 

Mr.  COGGSWELIi.  Mr.  Ciiaibman,  I 
move  a  substitute  for  that  amendment,  by 
merely  inserting  after  the  word  "purposes," 
these  words:  "Unless  othen\'ise  provided 
"bylaw." 

Mr.  FOLSOM.  That  would  be  the  same 
in  substance. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  Mr.  Chaikman,  I  do  not 
think  the  substitute  would  be  the  same  in 
substance,  exactly.  I  think  some  such  pro- 
vision should  be  made  in  case  of  the  new 
counties,  and  those  small  counties  nominally, 
but  regularly  organized  for  legislative  and 
judicial  purposes — some  of  them  having  not 
to  exceed  thirty  votes — such  as  the  county  of 
Anoka,  and  other  counties  cut  out  of  the 
county  of  Benton,  &c.  They  do  not  require 
two  terms — not  so  many  as  one,  in  some 
instances.  It  seems  to  me  it  would  be  better 
for  the  Legislature,  or  for  the  judges  them- 
selves, to  decide  how  many  terms  shall  be 
held. 

Mr.  FOLSOM.  I  believe  Mr.  Chairman, 
that  the  Legislature  should  prescribe  the  num- 
ber of  terms.  There  are  many  counties 
where  they  would  be  unnecessarily  compelled 
to  hold  two  terms,  unless  otherwise  provided 
by  law.  It  would  be  a  useless]|expense,  and 
should  not  be  done. 

The  CHAIRMAN.  Does  the  gentleman 
from  Chisago  accept  of  the  substitute  ? 

Mr.  FOLSOM.     No  sir. 

The  CHAIRMAN.  The  original  amend, 
ment  proposes  to  strike  out  and  insert,  whilst 
the  substitute  proposes  only  to  insert.  It  is 
the  opinion  of  the  Chair  that  it  could  hardly 
be  taken  as  a  substitute. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  Mr.  Chaibman  :  If 
the  amendment  is  adopted,  we  cannot  have  a 
court  in  any  county  till  the  Legislature  shall 
have  met  and  determined  the  number  of 
terms ;  whereas,  if  the  substitute  is  adopted, 
there  will  be  two  terms  held  in  every  county, 
unless  otherwise  provided  by  law. 

Mr.  WILSON.  Our  present  Territorial 
laws,  will  of  course,  remain  in  force  until  the 
organization  of  the  judiciary  under  the  new 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Sattodat,  August  8. 


405 


Constitution.  We  do  not  know,  indeed, 
whether  the  Constitution  will  be  adopted; 
and  until  then,  of  course,  the  judges  wiU 
hold,  as  at  present. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  I  suppose  the  gentle- 
man understands  that  as  we  have  no  circuit 
court  now,  we  ]  shall  not  have  two  terms  a 
year  imtil  they  are  authorized. 

Mr.  WILSON,  Mr.  Chaibman  :  The  ob- 
ject sought  Is  the  same,  by  each^^gentleman ; 
and  I  think  the  gentleman  from  Steele  county 
(Mr.  Coggswell)  comes  to  a  correct  conclu- 
sion. As  a  general  rule,  we  shall  want  two 
terms  of  the  circuit  court  in  each  county 
organized  for  judicial  purposes.  There  are 
some  counties  brought  to  notice,  where  the 
court,  probably,  wiU  not  be  held  twice.  They 
will  be  the  exceptions,  the  other  cases  the  rule. 
These  exceptions  can  be  made  very  readily 
by  the  Legislature.  There  need  be  no  trouble 
whatever  about  it,  if  we  accept  the  amend- 
ment of  the  gentleman  from  Steele.  I  think 
the  language,  also,  is  a  little  better,  and  prefer 
it  on  that  account. 

Mr.  Folsom's  amendment  was  rejected. 

And  then,  Mr.  Coggswell's  amendment, 
inserting  after  the  word  "  purposes,"  in  the 
third  line,  these  words:  "unless  otherwise 
"  provided  by  law,"  was  adopted. 

Mr.  HUDSON.  Mr.  Chairman  :  I  would 
like  to  offer  an  amendment  to  section  twenty- 
five,  striking  out  all  after  the  word  "  counties," 
in  the  second  line,  and  inserting  "  their 
"  term  of  office,  powers  and  duties  shall  be 
"  regulated  by  law,"  so  that  the  section  will 
read: 

"  A  competent  number  of  Justices  of  the  Peace 
shall  be  elected  by  the  electors  in  the  several  coun- 
ties. Their  term  of  office,  powers  and  duties  shall 
be  regulated  by  law." 

My  object,  Mr.  Chairman,  is  this :  I  sup- 
pose it  is  not  certainly  ascertained,  yet,  what 
organization  we  are  going  to  have  with  respect 
to  county  officers,  whether  the  township  sys- 
tem is  to  be  adopted,  or  whether  we  are  to  have 
all  as  county  officers.  I  am  in  favor,  myself,  of 
the  township  organization  ;  that  is,  wherein 
justices  of  the  peace  are  elected  by  townships, 
each  having  jurisdiction,  of  course,  aU  over 
the  county.  In  the  State  of  Michigan  there 
are  four  justices  in  each  county,  one  elected 
every  year,  and  each  holding  four  years.  We 
might  have  three  justices,  with  a  three  years 


term,  electing  one  every  year :  and  I  should 
be  in  favor  of  leaving  their'powers  and  duties 
and  their  term  of  office,  aU  regulated  by  the 
Legislature. 

The  amendment  was  adopted. 
Mr.  DICKERSON.  Mr.  Chairman  :  I  would 
move  to  amend  the  twenty-eighth  section  in 
reference  to  cases  where  the  judges  are  inte- 
rested in  a  cause,  by  inserting  the  words, 
"judge  or"  before  the  word  "judges,"  where 
it  occurs  in  the  second,  third  and  fourth 
lines. 

Mr.  LOWE.  Mr.  Chairman  :  It  seems  to 
me  that  this  would  be  leaving  power  very 
loosely  in  the  hands  of  the  Governor,  which 
is  likely  to  be  abused. 

Mr.  WILSON.  Mr.  Chairman  :  I  do  not 
like  the  wording  of  this  amendment,  and  I 
do  not  think  there  is  any  necessity  for  it. 
There  is,  to  be  sure,  the  objection  suggested 
some  time  ago  by  my  friend  from  Steele 
county,  (Mr.  Coggswell)  but  I  do  not  think 
it  very  important,  from  the  fact  that  ©ne  of 
the  judges  goes  out  every  three  years.  The 
probability  is  there  wU]  be  no  appoint- 
ment necessary,  from  the  fact,  that  two  judges 
will  most  likely  act  in  concert,  and  the  cases 
where  the  judges  might  differ  would  be 
anomalous.  I  would  rather  the  section  should 
remain  as  it  is.  And  there  is  this,  further, 
that  if  more  than  one  of  the  judges  should  be 
interested  in  any  cause,  it  is  very  likely  there 
would  be  a  change  at  the  next  election. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  It  seems  to  me,  Mr. 
Chairman,  if  there  is  a  necessity  for  the  sec- 
tion at  all,  these  amendments  should  be 
adopted.  If  there  was  only  a  chance,  I  would 
not  provide  for  it,  unless  it  were  necessary. 
But  now,,  if  a  party  has  a  suit  against  a  judge, 
he  must  wait  three  years. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  Mr.  Chairman:  If 
the  section  is  to  be  adopted,  it  should  be  made 
operative  in  all  possible  cases.  I  think  this 
section  should  be  something  like  the  following: 

"  If,  in  any  case  pending  in  the  supreme  court, 
any  one  or  more  of  the  judges  thereof  should  be 
personally  interested,  the  Governor  shall  appoint 
some  competent  person  or  persona  to  act  in  their 
stead  during  the  trial  of  the  same." 

— I  think  something  of  that  kind  would  meet 
every  possible  contingency,  and  if  the  amend- 
ment of  my  friend  should  not  meet  with 
favor,  and  nothing  better  should  be  presented 


406 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Satueday,  August  8. 


by  any  other  [member,  I  shall'  oflfer  what  I 
have  read  at  the  proper  time. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  would  suggest  a  better 
course  than  either,  that  power  be  given  to 
the  Governor  to  appoint  circuit  judges  to  take 
the  place  of  those  supreme  court  judges,  in 
cases  where  they  are  interested. 

Mr.  DICKERSON.  I  do  not  think  it  nec- 
essary that  the  Governor,  should  be  com- 
pelled to  appoint  from  the  circuit  judges.  I 
think  a  discretion  would  be  better,  for  him  to 
appoint  whom  he  pleases. 

The  amendments  by  Mr.  Dickebson  were 
adopted. 

Mr.  MILLS.  Mr.  Chaibmax  :  I  propose  to 
amend  section  thirteen,  by  striking  out  "six," 
in  the  third  line,  and  inserting  "  three."  I  do 
this  for  the  reasons  submitted  by  the  gentle- 
man from  Steele  (Mr.  Coggswell)  with  ref- 
erence to  the  term  of  the  probate  judges. 

The  amendment  was  rejected. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  Mr.  Chaibman,  the 
report  has  passed  through  so  pleasantly  that 
I  am  almost  hesitating  about  an  additional 
section  which  I  have  to  offer.  It  is  submit- 
ted however,  upon  consultation  with  several 
gentlemen — attorneys  of  this  city  and  other 
places — and  more  than  anything  else  for  the 
purpose  of  eliciting  the  opinion  of  members 
of  the  Convention  on  the  subject. 

The  CHAIRMAN  read  the  section  as  fol- 
lows: 

«  Sbc.  —  The  Legislature  shall,  at  its  first  ses- 
sion, provide  by  law  for  the  time  and  manner  of 
electing  the  Judges  of  the  Supreme  and  Circuit 
Courts,  provided,  that  in  no  case  shall  any  oflScer 
be  voted  for  upon  the  day  fixed  for  the  election 
of  said  Judges." 

I  will  just  remark,  Mr.  Chaibman,  in  ref- 
erence to  this  matter,  that  it  is  desirable  per- 
haps to  have  such  a  provision  as  this.  The 
question  was  not  brought  before  the  commit- 
tee at  all.  It  has  been  suggested  in  conver- 
sation by  several  legal  gentlemen ;  and  there 
are  members  present  who  know  that  the  sug- 
gestion has  come  from  gentlemen  of  the  bar, 
whose  opinions  are  entitled  to  credit  and  res- 
pect. This  provision  was  adopted,  and  tliis 
course  pursued  in  the  State  of  Wisconsin : 
that  the  excitements  of  mere  political  and 
party  issues  should  be  kept  as  far  as  possible 
from  the  election  of  the  judges — that  the  peo- 
ple should  elect  the  Judges,  upon  their  mer- 
its as  judges — that  they  should  be  elected 


with  the  view  of  making  them  as  indepen- 
dent of  political  parties  as  possible  ;  and  con- 
sequently, they  should  be  elected  on  a  day 
separate  from  that  on  which  the  other  officers 
are  elected,  whose  canvasses  necessarily  in- 
volve grave  political  issues  and  create  popu- 
lar excitements.  Manifestly,  the  election  of 
Judges  should  not  be  affected  by  popular  ex- 
citement, but  the  people  should  be  left  free  to 
choose  the  men  in  whom  they  are  to  place  the 
issues  of  life  and  property.  I  have  thought 
it  proper  to  offer  this  amendment,  subject,  of 
course,  to  the  amendment  of  others,  being 
desirous  of  of  eliciting  the  opinions  of  mem- 
bers on  the  subject.  The  Convention  will  ob- 
serve, that  in  the  report,  the  election  of  judges 
is  not  provided  for  at  all. 

Mr.  WILSON.  Mr.  Chaibman,  this  is  a 
subject  which  other  State  Constitutions  have 
made  provision  for,  some  in  one  way,  and  some 
in  another.  I  think,  myself,  the  best  way  is 
this:  that  in  voting  for  the  judges,  the  ballots 
should  be  separate,  and  kept  in  a  separate 
box.  That  would  sufficiently  secure  the  judges' 
election  from  the  excitement  of  the  general 
elections,  and  save  the  expense  of  a  separate 
election.  There  would  be  a  judge's  election 
every  two  years,  and  sometimes  every  year, 
to  fill  vacancies.  So,  I  .  think  it  would  be 
better  to  have  the  separate  ticket,  than  the 
separate  day. 

Mr,  LOWE.  I  think  the  suggestions  of 
the  gentleman  from  Scott  County  (Mr.  Gal- 
bbaith)  will  be  found  more  plausible  than 
beneficial.  It  will  be  remembered  by  gen- 
tlemen, that  in  New  York  city,  the  charter 
election  was  fixed  on  a  different  day,  for  the 
very  object  suggested  by  the  gentleman  from 
Scott,  and  it  failed  entirely.  I  do  not  believe 
it  will  be  possible  to  separate  the  election  of 
judges  from  political  considerations,  whether 
they  are  made  on  the  same  day  with  the  gen- 
eral election,  or  a  different  day. 

Mr.  FOSTER.  Mr.  Chaibman  :  I  have  not 
been  here  during  most  of  this  debate.  I  pre- 
sume it  might  be  safely  trusted  to  the  law- 
yers. This,  however,  is  a  little  in  my  line 
also,  and  I  will  say  that  I  feel  inclined  some- 
what to  the  idea  of  a  separate  box  on  the  day 
of  the  general  election.  At  the  same  time, 
as  the  gentleman  from  Chisago  (Mr.  Lowe) 
has  intimated,  there  may  be  more  plausibility 
than  benefit  in  it.    I  am  opposed  to  this  drag- 


MINNESOTA  CONTENTION  DEBATES— Mondat,  Auersr  10. 


407 


ging  the  people  out  to  too  many  elections.  In 
this  new  country  it  is  hard  to  get  the  people 
out,  imless  you  make  a  conflagration — a  sort 
of  moral  volcano — a  great  popular  upheaval, 
out  of  it.  But  around  the  cities  there  are 
always  people  enough  to  come  out,  and  they 
would  not  tire,  if  you  had  three  hundred  -and 
sixty-five  elections  in  the  year.  Therefore  I 
think  it  better  not  to  multiply  our  days  of 
election.     This  is  my  impression. 

Mr.  Galbbaith's  amendment  was  rejected. 

On  motion  of  Mr.  CLEGHORX,  the  com- 
mittee now  rose  and  reported  the  article  and 
amendments,  with  a  recommendation,  that 
the  amendments  be  adopted. 

The  question  being  on  the  first  amendment 
— to  strike  out  the  first  section  of  the  article. 

Mr.  KING,  at  forty  minutes  after  four 
o'clock,  moved  that  the  Convention  adjourn. 

The  motion  was  lost. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  Mr.  Presibevt  :  I  move 
that  the  further  consideration  of  the  report  be 
postponed,  and  that  it  be  made  the  special 
order  for  Monday,  at  half  past  two  o'clock. 

Mr.  WILSON.  Mr.  President  :  I  think 
we  can  finish  this  now.  I  am  opposed  to  lay- 
ing over  anything  when  we  are  prepared  to 
act  upon  it. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  make  the  motion  for 
this  reason.  It  has  not  been  till  within  a  few 
hours  that  any  member  has  seen  or  heard  this 
report.  It  was  not  read  when  it  was  reported 
from  the  committee,  and  no  one  has  had  the 
means  of  knowing  about  it,  until  it  was 
brought  in  from  the  printers  after  the  recess 
this  day  at  noon. 

Mr.  WILSON.  It  seems  to  me  if  we  post- 
pone, it  wUl  take  more  time  to  get  through 
with  it  than  we  have  consumed  already. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  Mr.  President:  I 
hope  the  motion  will  not  prevail  I  think  it 
is  well  understood  by  this  body,  and  the  whole 
of  the  legal  profession  in  it,  that  a  great  d«al 
of  deliberation  and  time  have  been  expended 
on  this  report ;  and,  it  seems  to  me,  if  we  are 
going  to  accomplish  anything,  it  is  high  time 
we  were  about  it.  Generally,  the  more  we 
work  at  these  reports  the  worse  we  make 
them.  I  do  not  for  my  part,  feel  inclined  to 
tinker  on  this  any  more. 

The  motion  to  postpone  was  rejected. 
The  several  amendments  reported  from  the 


Committee  of  the  Whole  were  then  read  and 
severally  concurred  in  without  debate. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL  then  offered  thefoUow- 
ing  substitute  for  section  twenty -eight : 

"If  in  any  case  pending  in  the  Supreme  Court, 
any  one  or  more  of  the  Judges  thereof  shall  be 
personally  interested,  the  Governor  shall  appoint 
some  competent  person  or  persons  to  act  in  their 
stead  during  the  trial  of  the  same." 

Mr.  HUDSON.  The  substitute  seems  to 
differ  merely  in  phraseology,  from  the  section 
as  it  now  stands.  I  see  no  difference  in  the 
meaning,  and  the  choice  is  one  of  words 
merely. 

Mr.  WILSON.  I  think  the  substitute  is 
in  better  language  than  the  original. 

The  substitute  was  adopted. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  now  move  that  the  report 
be  laid  on  the  table. 

The  motion  was  not  agreed  to. 

The  report  was  then  ordered  to  be  engrossed 
for  a  third  reading. 

On  motion  of  Mr.  CLEGHORN,  (at^five 
o'clock)  the  Conventiou  adjourned. 


TWENTY-FIFTH  DAY. 

Monday,  August  10,  1857. 
The  Convention  met  at  9  o'clock,  a.  m. 
The  journal  of  Saturday  was  read  and  ap- 
proved. 

REPORTS  OF  COMMITTEES. 

Mr.  MAXTOR,  from  the  Committee  on  En- 
grossment, reported  back  to  the  Convention, 
as_correctly  engrossed,  report  number  fifteen, 
on  Amendments  and  Revision  of  the  Consti- 
tution; also,  number  sixteen,  on  OflBcial  Sal- 
aries. 

And  then,  on  motion  of  Mr.  NORTH,  the 
Convention  took  a  recess,  until  ten  and  a  half 
o'clock,  A.  M. 

The  Convention  was  called  to  order  at  half 
past  ten  o'clock. 

REPORT  OF  COIQIITTEE. 

Mr.  STANNARD,  from  the  Committee  upon 
Finance,  Taxation,  and  Public  Debt,  made 
the  following  report,  which  was  read  a  first 
and  second  time,  and  laid  on  the  table  to  be 
printed,  viz: 

"  Sec.  1.  The  Legislature  shall  provide  by  law 
for  a  uniform  and  equal  rate  of  assessment  and 
taxation,  and  shall  prescribe  such  regulations  as 
shall  secure  a  just  valuation  for  taxation  of  all 


408 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Monday,  August  10. 


property,  both  real  and  personal,  excepting  such 
only  for  municipal,  educational,  literary,  scientific, 
religious,  eleemosynary  or  charitable  purposes  as 
may  be  especially  exempted  by  law. 

Sec.  2.  The  Legislature  shall  provide  for  an 
annual  tax  sufficient  to  defray  the  estimated  ex- 
penses of  the  State  for  each  year ;  and  whenever 
the  expenses  of  any  year  shall  exceed  the  income, 
the  Legislature  shall  provide  for  levying  a  tax  the 
ensuing  year,  sufficient,  with  other  sources  of  in, 
come,  to  pay  the  deficiency,  as  well  as  the  esti- 
mated  expenses  of  the  ensuing  year. 

Sec.  3.  Every  law  which  imposes,  continues  or 
revives  a  tax  shall  distinctly  state  the  tax  and  the 
object  to  which  it  is  applied,  and  it  shall  not  be  suf- 
ficient to  refer  to  any  other  law  to  fix  such  tax  or 
object. 

Sec.  4.  The  credit  of  the  State  shall  not  be 
granted  to,  or  in  aid  of,  any  person,  association  or 
corporation. 

Sec.  5.  No  money  shall  ever  be  paid  out  of  the 
Treasury  of  this  State  except  in  pursuance  of  an 
appropriation  by  law. 

Sec.  6.  The  State  shall  never  contract  any 
debts  for  works  of  internal  improvements,  or  be  a 
party  carrying  on  such  works;  except,  in  such 
cases  when  grants  of  land  or  other  property  shall 
have  been  made  to  the  State,  especially  dedicated 
by  the  grant  to  particular  works  of  internal  im- 
provements, the  State  may  carry  on  such  particular 
works,  and  shall  devote'  thereto  the  avails  of  such 
grants,  and  may  pledge  or  appropriate  the  reve- 
nues derived  from  such  works  in  aid  of  their  com- 
pletion. 

Sec.  7.  The  State  shall  never  contract  any  pub- 
lic debt,  unless  in  time  of  war,  to  repel  invasion, 
or  suppress  insurrection ;  except  as  in  this  Consti- 
tution provided. 

Sec.  8.  The  money  arising  from  any  loan  made, 
or  debt  or  liability  contracted,  shall  be  applied  to 
the  object  specified  in  the  act  authorizing  such 
debt  or  liability,  on  the  re -payment  of  such  debt 
or  liability,  and  to  no  other  purpose. 

Sec.  9.  Suitable  laws  shall  be  passed  by  the 
Legislature  for  the  safe  keeping,  transfer  and  dis- 
bursment  of  the  public  funds ;  and  also,  for  the 
publication  of  the  expenses  of  the  State  for  each 
fiscal  year. 
All  of  which  is  respectfully  submitted. 
BOUNDARIES   OF  THE  STATE. 

Mr.  DAVIS  offered  the  following  resolu- 
tion: 

"Besolved,  That  there  shall  be  submitted  to  the 
qualified  voters  of  this  territory,  at  the  same  time 
this  Constitution  is  submitted  to'  them  for  their 
adoption  or  rejection,  the  following  proposition  (or 
one  substantially  the  same) ;  and  if  the  same  shall 
receive  a  majority  of  all  the  votes  cast  both  for  and 
against  it,  then  the  same  shall  be  a  part  of  this 
Constitution,  and  go  with  the  same  to  the  Congress 
of  the  United  States  to  be  acted  upon  by  them  as 
they  may  see  proper,  viz : 


PROPOSITION   NUMBER — . 

"That  the  following  alteration  of  the  boundary 
line  mentioned  in  the  act  entitled  an  act  to  author- 
ize the  people  of  Minnesota  to  form  a  Constitution  . 
and  State  Government,  preparatory  to  their  ad- 
mission into  the  Union,  on  an  equal  footing  with 
the  original  States,  approved  March  3d,  1857,  is 
desired  by  the  people  of  said  State  of  Minnesota; 
and,  if  the  same  shall  be  assented  and  agreed  to 
by  the  Congress  of  the  United  States,  then  the 
same  shall  be  and  forever  remain  obUgatory  upon 
the  State  of  Minnesota,  viz:    Beginning  at  the 
middle  of  the  main  channel  of  the  Missouri  river, 
at  the  point  where  the  forty-sixth  parallel  of  lati- 
tude crosses  the  same ;  thence  down  the  middle  of 
the  main  channel  of  said  Missouri  river  to  the 
western  boundary  of  the  State  of  Iowa,  at  a  point 
opposite  the  mouth  of  the  main  channel  of  the  Big 
Sioux  river;  thence  up  the  middle  of  the  main 
channel  of  said  Big  Sioux  river,  to  the  north-west 
corner  of  the  State  of  Iowa ;  thence  east  along  the 
northern  boundary  of  said  State,  to  the  main  chan- 
nel of  the  Mississippi  river ;  thence  up  the  main 
channel  of  the  Misssissippi  river  and  following  the 
boundary  line  of  the  State  of  'Wisconsin,  until  it 
is  intersected  by  the  parallel  of  forty-six  degrees 
north  latitude ;  thence  west  along  said  parallel  of 
forty-six    degrees,  until  said  parallel    intersects 
the  middle  of  the  main  channel  of  the  Missouri 
river  at  the  point  of  beginning." 

Mr.  DAVIS  said:  Mr.  President,  in  the 
few  remarks  I  shall  make  in  support  of  the 
resolution  I  have  just  oSered,  I  do  not  pro- 
pose going  into  a  discussion  of  the  merits  of 
an  east  and  west  line  over  a  different,  or 
north  and  south  line.  The  relative  merits 
of  the  two  lines  have  already  been  pretty 
thoroughly  dfecussed,  at  the  time  this  Con- 
vention adopted  the  line  proposed  by  Con- 
gress. But,  Mr.  President,  I  cannot  help 
but  express  a  hope  that  the  resolution  referred 
to  will  pass,  for  the  reason  that  I  believe  it 
but  doing  an  act  of  justice  to  a  certain  por- 
tion of  this  Territory  and  to  a  large  number  of 
citizens  who  are  in  favor  of  a  different  line 
from  that  which  has  been  prescribed  by  Con- 
gress in  the  Enabling  Act,  and  which  we  have 
accepted.  I  deny,  in  the  first  place,  that 
Congress  has  the  right  to  prescribe  the 
boundaries  of  any  new  State  coming  into  the 
Union,  because  it  is  a  matter  which  concerns 
the  citizens  of  the  State  or  Territory,  and  them 
alone.  The  Congress  of  the  United  States 
have,  in  the  present  instance,  defined  our 
boundaries,  but  we  were  not  bound  to  accept 
them.  It  is  true  that,  as  a  matter  of  policy 
and  expediency,  we  have  accepted  them  in 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Satcbdat,  Augost  8. 


409 


full.  But  it  was  a  mere  proposition  made  by 
them  to  us,  which  we  might  have  accepted  or 
refused.  Now,  as  a  matter  of  expediency,  as 
a  matter  of  poUcy,  and  as  a  matter  of  justice 
to  a  large  nmnber  of  inhabitants  of  this  Ter- 
ritory, I  hope  this  resolution  will  pass.  I  am, 
to  a  certain  extent,  in  favor  of  Squatter  Sover- 
eignt}-.  I  think  on  this  question  of  boundary, 
a  question  of  such  importance  to  them,'the 
citizens  of  this  State  should  be  heard,  and 
should  have  an  opportunity  to  express  their 
preference  and  to  make  their  wishes  known ; 
and  if  this  proposition  should  receive  the  vote 
of  a  majority  of  the  voters  of  this  Territoiy, 
it  will  go  before  Congress  as  a  simple  memo- 
rial, which  they  may  accept  or  reject  as  they 
think  proper.  It  will  not  prejudice  our  chances 
for  admission  in  the  least. 

In  my  section  of  the  Territoiy,  there  is  an 
intense  feeUng  and  excitement  upon  this  one 
question.  They  have  called  public  meetings ; 
they  have  passed  resolutions  ;  and  they  have 
declared  that  no  Constitution  coming  from 
this  body  or  any  other  body,  wliich  does  not 
either  give  them  an  east  and  west  line,  or 
give  them  an  opportunity  to  express  their 
views  and  preference  as  to  the  line,  shall 
receive  their  support ;  but  that,  on  the  contra- 
ry, they  will,  without  distinction  of  party,  go 
against  it.  To  show  the  members  of  this 
Convention  something  of  that  sentiment,  I 
will  read  an  article  from  the  St.  Peter  Free 
Press,  of  the  date  of  July  29th; 

"  What  we  ask  is,  that  this  matter  shall  be  aiib- 
mittM  to  a  vote  of  the  people,  as  a  separate  ques- 
tion. 
All  we  ask  is,  '  An  open  field,  and  a  fair  fight.* 

"  Give  us  this,  and  we  are  content.  Without 
this,  we  will  not  be.  And  we  tell  the  Convention 
nov  beforehand  that  if  any  other  course  be  adopt- 
ed— or  if  a  north  and  south  line  boundary  be  in- 
corporated into  the  Constitution,  we  icillfight  it  to 
the  death — we  care  not  how  good  the  Constitution 
may  be,  in  other  respects.  In  this,  we  know  we 
but  speak  the  wishes  and  determination  of  the  mass 
of  our  citizens  in  Southern  Minnesota,  without  re- 
gard to  party.  As  a  Republican  paper,  represent- 
ing the  interests  and  wishes  of  the  Republicans  of 
this  region,  we  tell  our  Republican  delegates,  no 
matter  who  they  may  be,  that  if  you  attempt  to 
force  upon  us  this  line  contrary  to  our  known  and 
expressed  wishes,  we  will  not  submit  to  it.  We 
will  make  common  cause  with  any  party  to  defeat 
those  Republicans  who  attempt  it.  If,  gentlemen, 
you  desire  to  ruin  yourselves  and  our  party  for  the 
present,  adopt  a  north  and  south  line.    If  not,  then 

52 


I  adopt  our  suggestion,  and  let  the  People  have  a  fair 
j  chance  to  express  their  choice  in  the  matter. 

"That  much  we  demand;  and  will  have  it.  or 
fight." 

I  know  that  the  sentiments  of  that  article 
are  but  the  general  sentiments  in  that  portion 
of  the  Territory,  in  which  I  reside — not  only 
in  my  county,  but  in  two  or  three  adjoining 
counties.  Meetings  have  been  held  by  Dem- 
ocrats and  Republicans,  without  distinction  of 
party,  and  this  has  been  the  imiversal  senti- 
ment expressed  in  those  meetings.  I  hold  in 
my  hand  resolutions  passed  at  a  pubhc  meet- 
ing of  Republicans,  held  in  St.  Peter  on  the 
third  day  of  August ;  at  which  meeting  were 
assembled  at  least  three  or  four  hundred  peo- 
ple.    The  resolutions  are  as  follows  : 

"  Whereas,  The  citizens  of  the  Territory  of  Min- 
nesota, 'by  an  Enabling  Act  of  Congress,'  are  en- 
deavoring to  form  a  Constitution  by  which  they 
may  be  admitted  into  the  Federal  Union  as  a  State, 
with  equal  rights  and  privileges  with  the  other  sis- 
ter members  of  the  Confederacy ;  and, 

"  Whereas,  Under  the  call  for  framing  a  Consti- 
tution and  defining  our  boundaries  as  a  future 
State,  delegates  have  been  chosen  throughout  the 
Territory,  and  are  now  sitting  at  St.  Paul  for  the 
ostensible  purpose  of  framing  a  Constitution  which 
shall  be  acceptable  to  the  majority  of  the  people  in 
the  Territory ;  and, 

"  W}iereas,  The  present  crisis  in  our  political  af- 
fairs demands  energetic  and  philanthropic  action 
on  the  part  of  the  people,  in  order  to  thwart  th« 
despotic  machinations  of  the  Democratic  party, 
which,  in  our  opinion,  judging  from  former  prece- 
dents, is  endeavoring  to  impose  upon  us  a  Consti- 
tution embracing  doctrines  and  sentiments  repug- 
nant and  antagonistical  to  the  fundamental  and 
well  established  principles  of  the  Federal  Consti- 
tution, and  inimical  and  dangerous  to  our  best  in- 
terests and  welfare  as  a  State ;  and, 

"  Whereas,  We  believe  that  the  true  policy  and 
general  interests  of  the  people  of  the  Territory  de- 
mand the  establishment  of  an'east  and  west  boun- 
dary line ;  therefore,  as  an  expression  of  the  feel- 
ings of  this  Republican  body, 

"  Besolvtd,  That  we  recognize  the  Repablican 
organization  at  St.  Paul  as  the  legal  branch  of  the 
Constitutional  Convention,  and  endorse  their  ac- 
tion, thus  far  in  the  premises,  as  in  accordance 
with  the  principles  and  tenets  of  the  Republican 
party. 

"  Jtesohed,  That  we  deem^it  for  the  interests  of 
this  Territory  that  it  be  divided  by  an  east  and 
west  boundary  line,  and  our  delegates  in  the  Con  - 
stitutional  Convention  are  hereby  requested  and 
instructed  to  use  all  fair  and  honorable  means  to 
embody  in  the  Constitution  such  a  boundary  line, 
or  submit  the  same  to  a  vote  of  the  people  as  a 
separate  question." 


410 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Satckdat,  August  8. 


Mr.  President,  I  feel  anxious  to  have 
this  resolution  passed,  for  I  know  it  represents 
the  wishes  of  a  large  portion  of  the  people  of 
Southern  Minnesota,  aside  from  the  particular 
county  which  I  represent.  I  have  received 
numerous  letters  on  this  subject  from  people 
residing  in  my  section  of  the  country ;  and  I 
have  seen  gentlemen,  both  Democrats  and 
Republicans,  and  they  all  say  that  if  this 
Convention  will  give  them  the  opportunity  to 
express  their  wishes  in  regard  to  the  boun- 
dary line,  they  will  support  the  Constitution 
to  a  man,  without  distinction  of  party  ;  and 
if  they  are  not  so  permitted  to  express  their 
wishes,  they  will  oppose  it.  To  show  some- 
thing of  the  feeling  which  pervades  the  com- 
munity, I  will  read  anj^extract  from  a  letter 
written  from  St,  Peter : 

"  St.  Peter,  Aug.  4,  1857. 

"  ^RIE^^)  Davis, — I  am  very  sorry  to  see  such  a 
disposition  to  loch  down  from  our  position  in  favor 
of  the  east  and  west  line.  It  will  not  do.  We  sup- 
posed, of  course,  that  there  was  to  be  no  question 
about  it  among  our  folks.  How  can  we  do  else 
than  adopt  it,  after  the  position  we  took  upon  it 
last  winter  ?  We  cannot  do  it,  and  if  we  do  the 
people  will  not  support  it.  The  feeling  here  is  be- 
soming intense  upon  the  subject.  All  parties  are 
ready  to  unite  in  favor  of  that  Constitution  which 
will  give  us  that  line,  or  at  least  leave  it  to  a  vote 
of  the  people.  It  is  bad,  but  so  it  is ;  and  this 
musthe  done,  or  we  are  used  up." 

I  have  received  other  letters,  but  I  cannot 
now  read  them.  All  I  ask,  and  all  that  any 
from  that  portion  of  the  Territory  ask,  is,  that 
this  question  shall  be  submitted  to  a  vote  of 
the  people.  Give  us  that  and  we  can  go  into 
Nicollet  county,  and  into  Le  Sueur  county,  and 
obtain  nearly  every  vote  in  favor  of  this  Con- 
stitution ;  while  without  it,  I  assure  this  Con- 
vention that  our  Constitution  will  receive  but 
a  very  few  votes.  For  my  own  part,  I  will 
stand  up  for  it ;  but  if  I  go  home  without 
such  a  provision,  I  know  wliat  prejudices  I 
shall  have  to  encounter,  and  I  consider  it 
hopeless  to  undertake  to  overcome  that  preju- 
dice, and  to  obtain  the  votes  of  the  people  in 
favor  of  our  Constitution.  Again,  Mr.  Pbe- 
siDENT,  let  me  say  that  I  hope  this  resolution 
may  pass,  for  while  it  gives  that  portion  of 
our  people  who  desire  an  cast  and  west  divis- 
ion line  an  opportunity  to  express  their  prefer- 
ence, it  secures  their  support  for  our  Consti- 
tution, and  thus  enhances  the  chances  for  our 
success. 


The  PRESIDENT.  The  resolution  having 
given  rise  to  discussion,  Kill  be  laid  over  one 
day  under  the  rules. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  I  move  that  the  rules 
be  so  far  suspended  as  to  allow  this  resolution 
to  be  considered  now. 

The  motion  was  not  agreed  to,  (two-thirds 
not  voting  in  favor  thereof) 

Mr.  CLEGHORN.  I  move  that  this  reso- 
lution be  printed  for  the  use  of  members. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  I  hope  the  motion 
will  not  prevail,  for  the  reason  that  I  think — 
and  all  gentlemen  wUl  agi*ee  with  me,  consid- 
ering the  'present  state  of  our  printing — it 
will  be  at  least  three  days  before  it  will  be 
laid  upon  our  desks ;  and  I  hope  that  before 
that  time  has  elapsed,  we  shall  be  able  to 
complete  our  labors,  and  go  back  to  our  con- 
stituents. It  seems  to  me  to  be  a  resolution 
which  can  be  easily  understood.  It  is  sim- 
ply a  proposition  to  submit  the  boundary 
questions  to  the  people,  and  allow  them  to 
decide  it  for  themselves.  It  is  not  like  a  long 
report  involving  a  great  many  questions,  and 
a  great  many  issues.  It  is  a  simple  proposi- 
tion which  can  be  understood  the  very  mo- 
ment it  is  read. 

Mr.  CLEGHORN.     I  withdraw  my  motion. 

A   COMPROMISE    PROPOSED. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH  submitted  the  foUowing 
resolution : 

"  Whereas,  The  persons  who  were  elected  by  the 
people  of  this  Territory  to  represent  them  in  a 
Constitutional  Convention,  having  met  at  this  Cap- 
itol on  the  day  appointed  by  law  for  such  melting, 
and  having  disagreed  upon  some  questions  which 
arose  in  the  course  of  forming  a  temporary  organ- 
ization, separated  and  formed  two  distinct  Con- 
ventions, in  numbers  nearly  equal,  and  are  now 
forming  two  separate  and  distinct  Constitutions,  to 
be  presented  to  the  people  ;  and, 

"  Whereas,  Proceedings  so  extraordinary  in  their 
character  will  have  a  tendency  to  injure  the  repu- 
tation of  our  people — to  lessen  the  confidence  of 
the  other  States  in  our  integrity,  stability  and  pa- 
triotism, and  place  us  in  a  false  position  before  the 
world ;  therefore, 

"  Hesolved,  That  a  committee  of  five  be  appointed 
by  the  President  of  this  Convention  to  confer  with 
a  committee  of  an  equal  number,  if  appointed,  of 
the  duly  elected  members  of  that  portion  of  them 
who  are  acting  separately  from  us;  and  that  it 
shall  be  the  duty  of  such  committee  to  consider 
and  agree  upon,  if  practicable,  and  report  some 
plan  by  which  the  two  bodies  can  unite  upon  a  sin- 
gle Constitution  to  be  submitted  to  the  people. 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Sattbdat,   August  8. 


411 


The  resolurion  was  unanimously  adopted. 

The  Pbesidext  subsequently  appointed  as 
such  committee,  Messrs.  Galbraith,  Mc- 
Clcbe,  Staxxakd,  Aldbich,  and  Wilsox. 

And  then,  on  motion  of  Mr.  North,  (at  12 
o'clock,)  the  Convention  took  a  recess  imtil 
half-past  two  o'clock. 

AFTERNOON  SESSION. 

The  Convention  was  called  to  order  at  half- 
past  two  o'clock. 

FISAL   ADJOCRySTEST. 

The  following  resolution  coming  up  in  the 
regular  order  of  business,  viz : 

"Jiesolv(d,  That  the  Convention  adjonm  withoat 
day  on  Thursday,  the  thirteenth  instant." 

Mr.  COLBURN  said  :  Since  I  introduced 
that  resolution  on  Saturday,  matters  have 
taken  a  somewhat  different  turn  from  what 
was  anticipated,  and  I  therefore  move  to  lay 
the  resolution  upon  the  table. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  I  would  inquire  what 
became  of  the  resolution  I  introduced  the 
other  day,  in  regard  to  submitting  the  ques- 
tion of  negro  suffrage  to  the  people  ? 

The  PRESIDENT.  The  Chah-  would 
inform  the  gentleman  that  it  was  referred  to 
the  conunittee  upon  the  Schedule. 

SEAL   A>"D    COAT   OF   ASXS. 

On  motion  of  Mr.  NORTH,  the  Convention 
resolved  itself  into  a  committee  of  the  Whole, 
(Mr.  CoGGSWELL  in  the  chair)  upon  report 
nimaber  seventeen,  on  the  state  seal  and  coat 
of  arms.  " 

The  report  was  read  as  follows : 

"  Your  committee  would  report  that  they  have 
taken  the  subject  that  devolved  upon  them  into  j 
consideration,  and  have  procured  a  design  for  a  ' 
seal  and  coat  of  arms,  from  a  competent  person,   j 
and  would  recommend  the  adoption  of  the  same.   ' 
For  a  more  particular  knowledge  of  the  device,   ; 
your  committee  would  refer  to  the  design  itself  j 
which  accompanies  this  report ;  but  would  say  in  ' 
general  that  it  represents  a  waterfall,  (supposed  to  ' 
be  that  of  Minne-ha-ha)  within  a  shield.    This  part 
of  the  device  is  intended  to  symbolize  the  idea  of  j 
water,  for  the  amount  and  varied  forms  of  which   ; 
Minnesota  is  distinguished  above  any  other  part  of 
our  country,  and  probably  above  any  other  part  of 
the  world.    In  addition,  is  represented  the  figure 
an  Indian,  with  hLs  face  turned  towards  the  setting 
sun,  and  with  his  tomahawk  and  bow  and  arrows  at 
his  feet     Opposite  the  Indian  is  the  figure  of  a 
white  man,  with  a  sheaf  of  wheat  and  some  of  the 


implements  of  agriculture  at  his  feet.  The  Indian 
is  represented  as  asking  the  white  man,  by  an  im- 
ploring gesture,  whither  he  shall  go,  and  the  white 
man  is  responding  by  pointing  to  the  implements 
of  agriculture,  as  indicating  that  he  must  now 
assume  the  habits  of  civilized  life.  In  one  comer 
of  the  field  appears  a  distant  view  of  Lake  Superior, 
with  a  ship  in  full  sail.  In  another  is  a  view  of 
a  river,  (which  may  be  supposed  to  be  the  Minne- 
sota), rtmning  to  the  westward,  with  a  steamboat 
ascending  its  stream.  In  rear  of  the  shield  and 
waterfall  three  pine  trees  are  placed,  which  are 
typical  of  the  three  great  pine  regions — the  Saint 
Croix,  the  Mississippi,  and  Lake  Superior. 

"  For  a  motto,  to  accompany  the  words,  "  State  of 
Minnesota,  A.  D.,  lSo7,"  which  areplacedupon  the 
upper  rim  of  the  seal,  only  two  phrases  have  sug- 
gested themselves  to  your  committee  as  suitable. 
One  is  the  expression  from  one  of  the  Latin  jwets, 
" Fulget  intaminatis  Tumoribus"  which  may  be 
thus  translated,  "  She,  or  it,  (Minnesota)  shines 
or  is  refulgent  with  untarnished  honors.  This 
would  be  more  significant  and  appropriate  than 
most  of  the  Latin  mottoes  placed  upon  the  shields 
of  the  States ;  but  the  one  the  committee  have 
placed  upon  the  design  accompanying  the  report, 
and  which  they  recommend  for  adoption,  is  taken 
from  a  celebrated  speech  of  one  of  the  greatest  of 
our  orators,  and  which,  as  giving  expression  to  the 
two  great  ideas  which  have  always  swayed  the 
American  mind,  and  always  must  sway  it,  they 
think  well  worthy  to  be  forever  linked  with  the 
fortunes  and  memory  of  the  State  of  Minnesota — 
"Liberty  and  Union,  now  and  forener." 

"  The  committee  would  remark  that  the  principal 
feature  of  the  seal,  that  of  the  waterfall,  has  been 
suggested  to  them  by  a  number  of  the  members  of 
the  Convention.  For  the  accessory  features  of  the 
seal,  they  are  indebted  in  great  part  to  the  sug- 
gestion of  an  artist  and  designer  of  this  city,  to 
whom  they  are  happy,  on  this  occasion  to  acknowl- 
edge their  obligations,  Mr.  R.  Ormsby  Sweeney." 

Mr.  NORTH.  I  move  to  strike  out  from 
the  motto,  the  words,  "  tioic  and  foreterJ'' 
It  seems  to  me  that  those  words  do  not  add 
anything  to  the  force  of  the  motto.  The 
words  "  Liberty  and  Union "'  contain  all  the 
idea  there  is  there ;  and  if  that  motto  is  per- 
petual, it  exists  "  now  and  forever."  In  a 
motto,  brevity  is  desirable.  A  long  motto,  or 
a  motto  that  contains  the  idea  that  it  is  a  part 
of  a  speech,  becomes  hacknied,  and  does  not 
contain  the  idea  with  that  brevity  and  terse- 
ness which  should  characterize  it  And  I  am 
not  sure  that  a  better  motto  could  not  be 
found,  if  we  had  time  to  look  for  one. 

The  PRESIDENT  here  presented  to  the 
Convention  the  design  of  the  seal  which 
accompanied  the  report. 


412 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Saturday,  August  8. 


Mr.  BILLINGS.  I  hope  the  motion  wiU 
prevail.  Being  one  of  the  committee  that 
made  the  report,  I  did  not  feel  like  amending 
my  own  report,  though  I  am  decidedly  in 
favor  of  that  amendment.  "  Liberty  and 
Union"  now,  and  we  can  tell  about  the  future 
when  that  becomes  the  present. 

The  amendment  was  ^'eed  to. 

And  then,  on  motion  of  Mr.  NORTH,  the 
committee  rose  and  reported  back  to  the 
Convention  the  report  with  the  amendment, 
with  a  recommendation  that  the  amendment 
be  concurred  in. 

The  amendment  was  concurred  in. 

Mr.  HARDING.  I  move  that  the  report 
be  referred  to  the  committee  on  Engrossment. 

Mr.  WILSON.  I  hope  we  shall  not  be 
hasty  about  this  matter.  I  Vould  like  to  see 
this  report  laid  upon  the  table  for  a  few  days, 
for  the  reason  that  a  great  many  persons  in 
the  city  feel  a  great  interest  in  this  matter, 
and  I  do  not  know  but  what  we  can  improve 
it  by  allowong  it  to  lay  over  for  a  few  days. 
It  certainly  can  do  no  harm,  and  we  can  pass 
it  in  a  few  moments,  at  any  future  time. 
This  is  something  which  we  are  not  all,  prob- 
ably qualified  to  criticise.  I  certainly  am  not, 
and  I  would  like  to  obtain  the  opinions  of 
some  gentleman  of  better  taste  than  my  own, 
upon  such  a  matter  as  this.  I  move  that  it 
be  laid  on  the  table. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to. 

BOUNDARIES   OF   THE    STATE. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  I  move  that  the  rules 
of  Convention  be  so  far  suspended  as  to  allow 
the  resolution  offered  this  mornmg  by  the 
gentlemen  from  Nicollet,  (Mr.  Davis)  to  be 
taken  up  and  considered  at  this  time. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to  (two-thirds  vot- 
ing in  favor  thereof 

Mr.  NORTH.  I  would  suggest  that  it 
might  be  well  to  go  into  committee  of  the 
Whole  upon  that  resolution.  There  may  be 
considerable  discussion  upon  it,  and  in  order 
to  give  an  opportunity  for  a  free  expression 
of  sentiment  jupon  it,  I  move  that  the  Con- 
vention resolve] itself  into  a  committee  of  the 
Whole  for  the  consideration  of  that  resolution. 

The  motion  was  agreed  "to,  and  the  Con- 
vention accordingly  resolved  itself  into  a 
committee  of  the  Whole  (Mr.  Watson  in  the 
(-hair)  on  said  resolution. 


The  reeolution  was  read.  (See  report  of 
this  morning's  proceedings. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  If  I  were  to  consult 
my  own  feelings  at  the  present  time,  I  should 
make  no  remarks  upon  this  resolution,  for  the 
reason  that  my  physical  health  is  such  as  to 
incline  me  to  remain  quiet.  But  I  feel  that  it 
is  my  duty,  representing  as  I  do  a  constitu- 
ency who,  I  know,  are  deeply  interested  in 
this  question — to  say  a  few  words.  In  the 
outset  I  am  willing  to  acknowledge  that  I 
have  fears  and  strong  fears  that  this  resolu- 
tion may  not  pass  this  Convention ;  but  I  will 
hope  that  those  fears  may  prove  to  be  un- 
founded. I  know,  Mr.  Chairman,  that  there 
is  more  anxiety  felt  in  regard  to  the  matter 
set  forth  in  that  resolution,  than  there  is  in 
regard  to  this  question  of  negro  suffrage — a 
question  which  we  have  unanimously  agreed 
shall  be  submitted  to  the  people  in  some  way, 
shape  or  manner.  I  am  satisfied  also  that 
there  is  more  intense  feeling  existing  upon 
this  question  in  certain  localities  than  there  is 
in  regard  to  many  other  matters  and  subjects 
which  have  been  adopted  or  rejected  with  an 
extraordinary  degree  of  feeling  in  this  Con- 
vention. There  is  a  portion  of  this  Territory 
running  along  the  valley  of  the  Minnesota 
river,  and  between  Minnesota  river  and  Strait 
river  which  is  well  settled,  and  there  are 
counties .  there  containing  from  four  to  eight 
thousand  inhabitants,  who  are  deeply  inter- 
ested in  this  question.  It  is  my  duty  to  rep- 
resent their  views  and  feelings  in  this  matter 
as  well  as  my  feeble  abilities  will  p'ermit.  I 
am  receiving  letters  every  day  in  regard  to 
this  east  and  west  Une,  from  individuals  in 
that  section  of  the  Territory;  and  every 
newspaper  that  comes  from  that  quarter, 
brings  us  the  tidings  of  public  meetings  held 
in  certain  localities,  for  the  purpose  of  taking 
into  consideration  this  question,  and  of  in- 
structing their  representatives  thereon,  in  this 
Convention.  It  seems  to  me  that  we  ought 
not  to  turn  a  deaf  ear  to  the  petitions  of  that 
portion  of  our  Territory  and  to  say  to  them 
that  their  voice  shall  not  be  heard  in  this 
body. 

My  colleague  from  Nicollet  (Mr.  Davis)  has 
read  some  resolutions  which  were  passed  at 
a  large  meeting  at  St.  Peter,  and  he  has  also 
read  a  letter  which  ho  received  from  a  gen- 
tleman of  high  standing  in  that  section  of  the 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Satueday,  August  8. 


413 


country;  all  going  to  show  that  there  is  an 
intense  feeling  there  in  regard  to  this  subject ; 
and  showing  that  that  feeling  is  paramount  to 
all  other  feelings  in  regard  to  matters  before 
this  Convention ;  that  this  east  and  west  line 
is  the  question,  and  the  only  question  which 
seems  to  enter  into  their  feeling  and  their  con- 
sideration ;  that  unless  this  Convention  shall 
allow  their  voice  to  be  heard  in  some  way, 
shape  or  manner,  they  will  irrespective  of 
party  lines,  party  ties,  and  party  obligations, 
vote  against  our  Constitution. 

Now  it  seems  to  me  that  when  men  go  to 
that  extent — men  who  are  as  strong  partisans 
as  we  are  to  say  the  least  of  it — we  can  come 
to  no  other  conclusion  than  that  their  feelings 
must  border  upon  that  of  intense  excitement. 
They  do  not  desire  that  this  Convention  shall 
place  itself  in  an  attitude  that  would  place  the 
fruits  of  our  labors  in  jeopardy.  By  no 
means.  All  they  ask  is  that  this  proposition 
shall  be  submitted  as  a  separate  proposition, 
so  that  they  can  vote  either  for  or  against  it ; 
so  that  their  feelings  may  not  be  smothered, 
and  stifled,  but  may  have  a  fair  chance  to 
express  themselves  through  the  ballot  box. 
It  seems  to  me  that  if  we  are  Republicans,  if 
we  are  men  who  believe  in  the  power  and 
capacity  of  the  people  to  govern  and  control 
themselves,  if  we  believe  that  the  people  have 
not  only  the  right,  but  the  capacity  to  decide 
all  these  questions  for  themselves,  there  should 
be  no  hesitation  in  our  minds  in  regard  to  the 
propriety  of  submitting  this  question  as  a 
separate  proposition. 

And  mark  you,  gentlemen,  I  say  nothing  in 
regard  to  the  merits  of  the  question,  for  the 
reason  that  that  is  a  matter  which  I  believe 
the  people  wiU  discuss  when  the  question  is 
properly  brought  before  them.  If  we  are 
Republicans,  if  we  believe  in  this  doctrine  of 
popular  sovereignty — which  we  all  profess  to 
beheve  in — we  shall  have  no  hesitancy,  it 
seems  to  me,  in  submitting  it  as  a  separate 
question  to  the  people.  I  know  that  unless 
it  is  submitted  there  is  a  large  majority  of 
our  voters — men  who  belong  to  both  the  Re- 
publican and  Democratic  parties — will  take 
some  course  and  resort  to  some  measures, 
which  will  give  them  a  chance  to  express 
tiieir  views  and  sentiments  in  regard  to  this 
question.  I  know  too,  that  if  you  undertake 
to  silence  that  voice,  and  stifle  that  sentiment, 


the  Constitution  we  are  about  to  submit  to 
the  people,  will  not  receive  that  support  which 
it  otherwise  would.  Now  if  it  were  proposed 
to  engraft  this  into  the  Constitution  and  make 
the  result  of  this  depend  upon  the  fate  of  the 
Constitution,  I  certainly  would  not  srpport 
it.  But  no  such  thing  is  asked.  All  they 
ask  is  the  privilege  of  expressing  their  senti- 
ments through  the  ballot  box. 

If  it  should  so  happen  that  that  sentiment 
should  be  the  prevailing  one,  they  ask  that 
that  wish  may  go  to  Congress,  that  Congress 
may  take  it  into  consideration  and  give  it  such 
weight  as  they  think  proper.  Even  though 
a  majority  of  the  people  of  this  Territory 
should  vote  in  favor  of  an  east  and  west  line, 
they  do  not  pretend  to  say  that  Congress 
would  grant  their  prayer,  and  respect  their 
choice  and  preference ;  but  they  do  say  that 
there  is  a  strong  probability,  to  say  the  least 
of  it,  that  Congress  would  take  it  into  consid- 
eration, and  give  it  more  consideration  than 
they  would,  had  not  that  wish  and  preference 
been  expressed.  Now  I  say,  when  we  take 
into  consideration  the  rights  of  that  section  of 
the  Territory,  and  our  duties  here  as  repre- 
sentative members,  it  seems  to  me  that  there 
is  no  alternative  left  us  but  to  respect  those 
rights,  and  to  say  to  them  that  they  shall  have 
a  chance  to  express  their  sentiments  through 
the  ballot  box.  When  we  take  into  consid- 
eration, too,  the  strong  desire  we  have  that 
our  Constitution  shall  be  adopted,  and  when 
we  take  into  consideration  the  fact  that  if 
this  question  is  submitted  to  the  people  as  a 
separate  question,  that  whole  country  will 
come  up  to  a  man  and  vote  for  our  Constitu- 
tion, it  seems  to  me  that  it  is  a  matter  of  pol- 
icy for  us  to  take  that  course ;  and  when  we 
connect  that  policy  with  a  matter  of  right,  it 
makes  that  claim  doubly  strong.  When  we 
consider  the  fact  that  such  a  course  does  not 
jeopardise  the  Constitution,  nor  the  admission 
of  Minnesota  into  the  Union  as  a  State,  there 
can  be  no  sound  reason,  or  substantial  objec- 
tion to  submitting  this  as  a  separate  proposi- 
tion to  the  people.  And  I  hope,  before  this 
Convention  shall  vote  that  that  class  of  our 
population  shall  not  be  heard,  that  they  will 
take  into  consideration  that  glorious  doctrine 
of  popular  sovereignty  which  they  will  tram- 
ple upon  by  so  doing.  I  hope,  too,  they  will 
take  into  consideration  the  feet  that  they  are 


414 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Satuedat,  August  8. 


trampling  upon  the  rights  of  a  large  portion 
of  our  citizens  who  are  just  as  much  inter- 
ested in  the  prosperity,  growth  and  future 
population  of  our  Territory,  as  we  are.  They 
are  just  as  good  Republicans  as  we  are ;  just 
as  good  Democrats  as  can  be  found  in  the 
Territory,  and  men  who  have  just  as  intense 
a  desire  to  see  Minnesota  prosper,  as  we  have. 

I  do  not,  Mr.  Chaieman,  propose  to  go  uito. 
an  argument  for  the  purpose  of  showing 
that  an  east  and  west  line  is  better  than  a 
north  and  south  line.  That  is  a  question 
which  will  properly  come  before  the  peo- 
ple when  this  is  submitted  as  a  separate 
proposition.  But  upon  this  question  of  the 
propriety  of  submitting  it,  I  do  hope  we 
shall  be  in  a  sufficient  majority  to  carry  it 
through  this  Convention ;  and  I  should  like  to 
see  it  unanimously  carried,  for  the  reason  that 
it  is  carrying  out  a  Republican  principle,  and 
carrying  out  a  Democratic  principle.  It  is 
giving  to  a  large  portion  of  our  citizens  the 
right  to  express  their  views  and  sentiments,  in 
regard  to  a  matter  in  which  they  feel  intensely 
interested,  at  the  ballot  box.  If  any  member 
can  have  a  serious  objection,  or  any  kind  of 
objection,  I  hope  he  will  state  it ;  and  if  he 
has  a  better  proposition  than  the  one  which 
has  been  presented,  I  hope  he  will  bring  it 
forward,  and  I  shall  be  ready  to  sustain  it. 

If  there  is  nothing  more  to  be  said  on  this 
matter,  I  move  that  the  committee  rise  and 
report  the  resolution  to  the  Convention  with 
a  recommendation  that  it  be  concurred  in. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  I  have  an  amendment 
to  offer  to  that  motion.  It  is  that  the  com- 
mittee rise  and  recommend  that  the  resolution 
be  laid  over  until  to-morrow.  My  colleague 
*  (Mr.  Lowe)  who  voted  this  morning  to  sus- 
pend the  rules  for  the  purpose  of  taking  up 
this  resolution,  is  now  absent,  and  I  desire 
that  he  shall  have  an  opportunity  to  speak 
upon  it. 

Mr.  WILSON.  It  is  well  known  that  I 
am  very  favorable  towards  this  resolution, 
and  I  shall  do  what  I  can  to  procure  its  pas- 
sage, as  I  have  done  for  everything  of  a  sim- 
ilar sort  which  has  been  presented  to  the  Con- 
vention. As  is  well  known,  the  county  m 
which  I  reside  is  almost  unanimously  in  favor 
of  such  a  line  as  is  proposed  here.  The 
county  of  Wabashaw,  is,  I  think  ahnost  two 
thirds  in  favor  of  the  north  and  south  line 


proposed  in  the  Enabling  Act.  My  colleagues 
from  Wabashaw  are  not  present  to-day.  For 
that  reason,  to  give  them  an  opportunity  to 
be  heard,  I  desire  to  have  the  resolution  laid 
over  imtil  they  are  here,  and  then  I  shall  take 
the  responsibility  of  voting  and  working 
against  a  part  of  my  constituency.  I  rather 
not  do  it  while  my  colleagues  are  absent. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  I  withdraw  my  mo- 
tion, 

Mr.  MANTOR.  Whenever  this  proposi- 
tion has  come  before  this  body  I  have  ex- 
pressed my  disposition  and  desire  to  have  an 
east  and  west  line.  But  I  am  placed  to-day 
very  much  in  the  position  of  the  gentleman 
from  Winona  (Mr.  Wilson).  I  am  here  the 
representative  of  one  more  county  than  he — 
Goodhue,  Dodge  and  Freeborn — and  I  find 
that  a  portion  of  my  colleagues  are  not  here 
to-day.  The  representatives  living  in  Good- 
hue County  may  possibly  oppose  this  reso- 
lution. Yourself,  Mr.  Chairman  (Mr.  Wat- 
son in  the  Chair)  is  from  a  coimty  which, 
were  I  to  express  my  candid  opinion,  is  in 
favor  of  an  east  and  west  line.  But  Dodge 
Coimty,  I  know,  is  in  fiivor,  to  a  man,  of  an 
east  and  west  line,  and  they  will  expect  me 
to  support  this  proposition.  And  I  see  no 
other  or  better  time  to  express  our  wish  and 
desire  than  the  present.  And  allow  me  to  say 
here,  that  while  the  gentleman  who  introduced 
this  resolution  has  been  importuned  by  let- 
ters on  this  subject ;  and  while  his  constitu- 
ents have  through  their  letters,  their  public 
meetings,  and  their  press,  disclaimed  their  de- 
sire of  the  line  marked  out  by  the  Enabling 
Act,  I  also  have  received  nmnerous  letters, 
irrespective  of  party,  praying  that  that  line 
would  not  be  adopted  by  this  Convention. 
Men  of  all  all  parties  request  that  the  voice 
of  the  people  may  be  heard  upon  tliis  ques- 
tion. Now  sir,  while  we  will  undoubtedly 
submit  another  question  of  vital  importance 
to  the  people,  for  their  decision,  I  can  see  no 
good  reason  why,  with  the  same  propriety, 
we  might  not  also  submit  thi  ^  question.  Let 
them  have  the  opportunity  to  cast  their  vote 
upon  the  subject,  and  they  will  be  satisfied. 
Then  we  shall  have  cleaned  our  skirts.  I 
hope  however  the  resolution  will  be  laid  over 
for  the  day,  and  until  my  colleagues  shall  all 
bo  present. 

Mr.  COLBUKN.    Mr.   Chaibman:  It  will 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Satcbdat,  August  8. 


416 


be  remembered,  that  when  this  question  of 
boundary  came  before  the  Convention  in  the 
earlier  part  of  the  session,  and  the  question 
arose  as  to  whether  the  boundary  prescribed 
in  the  Enabling  Act  should  be  the  boundary 
in  the  Constitution,  or  whether  it  should  be 
an  east  and  west  line,  I  expressed  myself  de- 
cidedly in  favor  of  the  line  fixed  by  Congress  ; 
not  because  I  was  individually  in  favor  of  that 
line — for  I  think  I  stated  I  had  but  little 
choice  between  them — and  in  my  estimation 
there  is  but  little  choice  between  them — but 
then  I  was  in  favor  of  the  boundary  proposed 
by  Congress,  for  the  reason  as  I  believed, 
that  if  any  other  should  be  placed  in  the  Con- 
stitution, Congress  would  refuse  to  admit  us 
as  a  State  into  the  Union,  or  at  least  reject  or 
delay  us  for  a  time.  But  this  resolution,  as  I 
understand  it,  provides  that  this  question 
shall  be  submitted  to  the  people  as  a  separate 
and  distinct  question ;  that  by  it  the  people 
shall  have  an  opportunity  of  expressing  their 
preference  between  the  two  lines ;  and  if  a 
majority  prefer  an  east  and  west  line,  then 
the  resolution  goes  before  Congress  in  the 
shape  of  a  memorial,  praying  for  that  line 
rather  than  the  one  defined  in  the  Constitu- 
tion. 

Now  I  can  see  no  serious  objection  to  adop- 
ting this  course  of  allowing  the  people  to  ex- 
press their  wishes  and  memoralize  Congress 
upon  the  subject ;  and  as  I  can  see  nothing 
in  it  that  can  embarass  the  action  of  Congress 
upon  the  admission  of  Minnesota  into  the 
Union,  I  shall  support  this  resolution ;  and  I 
do  so  for  the  purpose  of  giving  the  people  an 
opportunity  of  exprressing  their  preference. 
If  a  majority  should  be  favorable  to  an  east 
and  west  line,  I  can  see  no  reason  why  Con- 
gress should  not  look  into  it ;  and  if  they 
should  do  so,  and  see  fit  to  make  the  change, 
I  for  one  shall  find  no  fault — if  a  majority 
desu*e  an  east  and  west  line,  and  Congress 
shall  see  fit  to  gratify  that  desire,  I  shall  not 
object.  Left  as  I  am  in  the  southern  portion 
of  the  Territory,  it  makes  but  very  little  dif- 
ference to  me,  or  to  the  people  of  our  county, 
who  go  some  one  way  and  some  the  other  on 
this  question. 

With  this  expression  of  opinion,  I  certainly 
can  see  no  objection  to  submitting  this  matter 
as  a  separate  proposition  to  the  people,  and 
Shall  support  the  resolution. 


Mr.  KING.  Mr.  Chaieji an  :  I  hope  the  re- 
solution will  be  laid  over.  I  wish  to  offer  an 
amendment  extending  the  line  a  little  further 
north,  so  as  to  give  us  an  outlet  to  Lake  Su- 
perior ;  and  if  we  cannot  do  this  in  any  other 
way,  I  would  make  it  a  jog  as  they  did  in 
Pennsylvania. 

Mr.  FOSTER.  Mr.  Chairman  :  I  think  my- 
self this  had  better  be  laid  over,  so  that  every 
gentleman  may  have  a  fair  opportunity  of  ex- 
pressing his  opinion ;  and  then,  I  should  like 
to  see  the  question  discussed  by  a  full  Con- 
vention. 

I  see  some  practical  difiBculties  in  the  way 
of  our  friends  who  are  in  favor  of  an  east  and 
west  line,  that  are  likely  to  arise  in  bringing 
about  what  they  want.  The  case  is  this : 
Congress  has  provided  a  north  and  south  line. 
We  accept  that,  and  go  on  and  elect  a  Legis- 
lature with  that  boundary.  We  go  to  work, 
also,  and  elect  members  of  Congress  over  the 
whole ;  and  in  due  time,  also,  the  Legislature 
elects  two  Senators  representing  the  whole  to 
the  border.  These  Senators  and  Representa- 
tives go  on  to  Washington ;  and  then  we  will 
suppose  an  east  and  west  line  to  be  adopted. 
The  whole  thing  is  in  chaos  again.  Yoiu* 
Senators  find  themselves  chosen  by  a  Legisla- 
ture not  representing  the  State  at  all;  and 
your  Representatives  in  Congress  are  in  the 
same  predicament.  They  will  find  themselves 
in  the  end,  all  in  chaos. 

I  had  supposed,  Mr.  Chairman,  that  this 
question  was  settled ;  that  we  had  done  with 
it,  after  pleading  and  fighting  over  it,  as  we 
did.  Really,  there  ought  to  be  an  end  of  it 
some  time,  it  seems  to  me.  I  do  not  want  to 
go  again  into  it — to  the  propriety  of  making 
a  State  all  long  and  no  wide — extending  from 
Lake  Superior  to  the  Mississippi,  embracing 
some  good  country,  and  some  waterless  and 
treeless  districts,  instead  of  putting  it  into  a 
more  compact  political  and  geographical  form. 
I  do  not  want  to  go  into  this  discussion  now. 
I  think  it  better  lie  over. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  Mr.  Chairman,  I 
wish  to  say  to  the  gentleman  fi-om  Dakota, 
(Mr.  Foster,)  that  it  presents  nothing  like  the 
case  manifesting  itself  to  his  mind.  Of 
course,  in  the  Schedule,  provision  will  be 
made  for  the  first  Legislature.  We  shall 
there  district  the  State  into  representative 
districts  for  Congress  and  the  Legislature, 


416 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Satubday,   August  8. 


and  into  judicial  districts  ;  and  this  work  will 
have  to  be  gone  over  again  at  the  very  first 
session  of  the  Legislature  under  this  Consti- 
tution. And  I  apprehend,  sir,  that  no  Le- 
gislature will  meet  until  after  this  Constitution 
shall  be  adopted,  and  we  are  admitted  into  the 
Union  ;  and  when  we  shall  be  admitted  into 
the  Union,  then,  as  a  matter  of  course,  they 
can  cut  up  the  State  into  districtsjustasthey 
see  proper.  I  can  see  nothing  likely  to  bring 
about  those  circumstances  of  trouble  and  dis- 
arrangement spoken  of  by  the  gentleman,  and 
in  my  judgment  they  will  not  exist.  I  stated 
to  gentlemen,  at  the  outset  of  this  discussion, 
when  it  was  claimed  by  the  gentleman  from 
Dakota  and  the  gentleman  from  Rice,  that  the 
moment  we  adopted  the  Congressional  boun- 
dary line,  there  would  be  no  backing  out.  I 
told  these  gentlemen,  that  I  did  not  believe  it, 
and  that  they  would  hear  from  me  in  the  mat- 
ter again,  subsequently  to  that  time. 

Now,  Mr.  Chaibman,  it  seems  to  me,  that 
this  is  only  a  question  whether  the  voice  of 
the  people  shall  be  heard,  or  not ;  whether 
the  intense  popular  desire  and  interest  mani- 
fested in  certain  portions  of  the  Territory, 
shall  have  a  free  expression  through  the  ballot- 
box  or  not;  or,  whether  we  will  just  shut 
down,  and  say,  the  people  shall  not  decide  ! 
they  are  such  consummate  fools  they  do  not 
know  what  boundary  they  ought  to  have! 
Because  we  do  not  happen  to  think  exactly  as 
they  think,  therefore  the  wishes  of  those  peo- 
ple living  in  the  valley  of  the  Minnesota  river 
shall  not  be  respected. 

I  wish  gentlemen  who  are  opposed  to  this 
proposition  would  just  go  back  to  fundamen- 
tal principles — go  back  to  that  portion  of  this 
Constitution  which  we  have  adopted  in  the 
Bill  of  Rights,  which  treats  of  the  fundamen- 
tal right  of  man,  and  see  whether  the  people 
have  not  the  right  to  be  heard.  It  seems  to 
me,  if  they  would  do  this,  they  would  say  : 
it  is  just  as  well  to  adopt  this  at  once;  be- 
cause, if  we  do  not,  we  just  say  in  effect,  that 
we  know  better  than  the  people;  that  the 
people  do  not  know  how  to  direct  themselves 
in  this  matter  where  the  Enabling  Act  has 
been  interposed  ;  and,  therefore,  we  will  just 
take  the  bits  into  our  own  mouths,  and  judge 
for  thim.  I  think  the  people  arc  just  as  com- 
petent to  direct  and  decide  for  themselves  in 
regard  to  boundary,  as  they  are  in  regard  to 


other  matters.  I  say  again,  the  only  ques- 
tion here  is,  whether  or  not  we  shall  stifle  the 
voice  of  the  people ;  and  if  gentlemen  come 
up  to  argue  it,  they  will  find  they  must  argue 
it  on  that  point,  ultimately,  righteously  and 
republicanly. 

Mr.  FOSTER.  I  merely  wish  to  make  a 
remark,  Mr.  Chaieman;  I  am  not  going  to 
speak  in  reply.  The  gentleman,  in  his  reply, 
has  hardly  got  rid  of  the  case  I  made.  The 
difficulty  is  in  the  first  election  of  Represen- 
tatives and  Senators  and  members  of  Con- 
gi'ess.  However,  the  State  may  be  subse- 
quently districted,  is  another  matter. 

Mr.  FOLSOM.  Mr.  Chairman:  I  was  op- 
posed to  this  proposition  when  it  was  up  be- 
fore. I  thought  it  had  been  settled:  but  it  seems 
to  have  been  again  sprung  upon  us.  I  live,  sir, 
in  the  northern  part  of  the  Territory,  and  I 
am  still  opposed  to  this.  My  whole  constit- 
uency are  opposed  to  it,  and  I  believe  the 
whole  northern  portion  of  the  State  to  be-  op- 
posed to  it.  One  reason  for  their  opposition 
is  in  the  question  of  the  railroad  land  gi'ants. 
Here  we  have  had  about  six  millions  of  acres 
of  land  granted  for  railroad  purposes,  and 
nearly  the  whole  of  it  is  in  the  south  half. 
It  is  said  that  we  are  living  in  a  country  that 
is  good  for  nothing;  but  I  affirm,  if  that  is 
anything,  that  our  pine  districts  are  good  land. 
We  are  willing,  sir,  if  gentlemen  will  be  guided 
by  fundamental  principles,  as  has  been  re- 
marked, to  submit  this  question  to  the  people, 
and  I  claim,  that  we  are  acting  upon  funda- 
mental principles  so  long  as  we  act  in  con- 
formity with  the  Enabling  Act  of  Congress, 
and  no  longer.  We  are  not  a  legally  organ- 
ized body,  if  we  depart  from  that.  If  the 
boundary  is  to  be  changed  at  all,  I  prefer  that 
the  Mississippi  should  be  the  line,  and  let  us 
on  the  the  north  side  remain  one  Territorj\ 
If  the  question  is  to  be  submitted  to  the  peo- 
ple, I  would  say,  let  us  have  the  utmost  free- 
dom in  it ;  let  every  man  vote  just  as  he  would 
have  it.  And,  then  I  would  say,  let  the  Mis- 
sissippi river  be  the  line ;  and  when  you  come 
into  the  valley  of  the  Minnesota  river,  let  them 
have  a  State  to  themselves  if  they  will. 

Mr.  PHELPS.  Mr.  Chairman.  I  under- 
stand it  is  the  desire  of  gentlemen  that  this 
resolution  should  be  laid  over ;  and  therefore 
I  will  make  the  motion  that  the  committee 
now  rise,  and  report  the  resolution  back  to 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Ttjesday,  August  11. 


41T 


the  Convention  with  a  recommendation,  that 
it  be  laid  on  the  table  till  to-morrow. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to. 

So  the  committee  rose,  and  the  Chairman 
reported  accordingly. 

The  question  being  on  postponement, 

Mr.  WILSON,  said :  Mr.  President,  this 
is  not  the  same  proposition  that  has  been  be- 
fore acted  upon,  and  which  was  settled ;  but, 
as  my  friend  (Mr.  Coggs^-ell)  has  observed, 
it  is  quite  a  different  question.  It  is,  whether 
we  wUl  admit  the  people  to  express  themselves 
at  the  polls,  on  something  vital  to  the  interests 
of  every  citizen  of  Minnesota;  and  I  want 
the  name  of  every  member  upon  the  record 
who  will  vote  no,  upon  this  question,  against 
the  people  expressing  themselves  at  the  ballot 
box.  I  want  to  hear  an  argument,  going  to 
show,  that  the  Enabling  Act  is  in  our  way. 
We  have  never  yet  had  one.  I  rather  think 
there  will  be  found  no  great  number  here  to 
vote  against  the  people  expressing  themselves 
at  the  ballot  box. 

Mr.  NORTH.  Mr.  President  :  That  argu- 
ment has  been  used  quite  a  number  of  times 
here,  "I  would  like  to  see  the  names  of  gen- 
tlemen recorded  against  this  or  that,"  and  I 
would  bravely  suggest  to  my  friend  from 
Winona,  that,  after  using  that  argument,  the 
vote  has  usually  been  very  strong  against  it. 
I  would  suggest,  that  it  better  not  be  used. 

Mr.  AVILSON.     I  never  adopted  it  before. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to. 

So  the  resolution  was  laid  over. 
THE  militia. 

Mr.  MANTOR,  from  the  Committe  on  the 
Militia,  now  submitted  the  following  report, 
(number  nineteen)  which  was  read  a  first  and 
second  time,  and  laid  on  the  table  to  be 
printed. 

"  Sec.  1.  The  Militia  of  this  State  shall  be  com- 
posed of  all  able  bodied  white  male  citizens,  be- 
tween the  age  of  eighteen  (18)  and  forty-five  (45) 
years,  except  such  as  are  or  may  be  exempt  by  the 
laws  of  the  United  States,  or  of  this  State,  and  they 
shall  be  enrolled  in  such  manner  as  may  be  pro- 
vided by  law. 

Sec.  2.  The  Legislature  shall  provide  by  law 
for  the  organization,  equipment  and  discipline  of 
such  number  of  volunteer  troops  as  they  shall 
deem  necessary  for  the  protection  of  the  State  and 
the  preservation  of  order. 

Sec.  3.  All  officers  of  the  militia  (staflF  officers 
excepted)  shall  be  elected  by  persons,  subject  to 

53 


military  duty  in  their  respective  commands,  in  such 
manner  as  shall  be  provided  by  law. 

Sec.  4.  The  Governor  shall  appoint  the  Adju- 
tant, Quarter  Master,  and  Commissary  Generals  of 
the  State,  and  Major  and  Brigadier  Generals  and 
Colonels ;  and  Colonels  shall  appoint  their  respec- 
tive staff  officers. 

Sec  5.  All  commissioned  officers  shall  be  com- 
missioned by  the  Governor,  but  no  Commission 
shall  be  issued  for  a  longer  time  than  hve  years. 

Sec.  6.  Xo  person  having  conscientious  scru- 
ples against  bearing  arms,  shall  be  compeHed  to  do 
miUtary  duty  in  time  of  peace,  but  may  be  required 
to  pay  an  equivalent  for  such  service. 

Mr.  DAVIS.  Mr.  President  :  I  would  ask 
if  all  the  reports  have  been  considered  in 
Committee  of  the  Whole  ? 

The  PRESIDENT.  The  Chair  is  unable 
to  inform  the  gentleman. 

And  then,  (at  four  o'clock,  and  twenty  min- 
utes,) on  motion  of  Mr.  Morgan,  the  Conven- 
tion adjourned  tiU  to-morrow  morning  at  nine 
o'clock. 


TWENTY-SIXTH  DAY. 

Tuesday,  August  11,  1857. 

The  Convention  met  at  9  o'clock,  a.  m. 

The  Journal  of  yesterday  was  read  and  ap- 
proved. 

Mr.  MANTOR,  from  the  Cmmittee  on  En- 
grossment, reported  back  as  correctly  en- 
grossed, report  number  fourteen,  on  the  Elec- 
tive Franchise. 

BOUNDABf   LINE. 

On  motion  of  Mr.  HARDING,  the  Conven- 
tion resolved  itself  into  a  Committee  of  the 
Whole  (Mr.  Thompson  in  the  chair,)  upon  the 
resolution  offered  yesterday  by  the  gentleman 
ffom  Nicollet  (Mr.  Davis.)  (For  resolution, 
see  proceedings  of  yesterday.) 

Mr.  LOWE.  I  understand  that  my  col- 
league and  fHend  (Mr.  Stannard,)  did  me 
the  honor  yesterday  to  announce  to  the  Con- 
vention that  I  had  some  intention  of  express- 
ing my  opinion  upon  this  question.  It  was 
not  my  intention  to  inflict  a  speech  upon  the 
Convention,  though  I  am  certainly  opposed  to 
the  resolution,  and  shall  vote  against  it  with- 
out hesitation.  The  reason  why  I  did  not 
think  of  speaking  upon  the  question,  was  be- 
cause the  reasons  why  it  should  not  pass,  ap- 
peared to  me  so  obvious  and  clear,  that  it 
hardly  needs  to  be  remarked  upon.     The  rea- 


418 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Tuesdat,  August  11. 


s<m  why  I  am  opposed  to  it,  and  think  it 
should  be  rejected,  is  found  in  the  position  in 
which  it  will  place  our  Constitution,  and  in 
the  doubt  which  it  will  throw  upon  our  pros- 
pect of  a  speedy  admission.  If  we  once  pass 
out  of  the  field  which  was  within  the  purview 
of  Congress  when  they  passed  the  Enabling 
Act,  we  are  in  great  danger  of  having  our 
claim  to  admission  rejected.  It  is  well  known 
that  that  act  was  passed  with  great  difficulty, 
and  that  outside  of  that  act,  we  have  no  claim 
upon  Congress.  As  I  understand  that  act,  it 
was  fi-amed  expressly  with  reference  to  the 
subject,  that  we  might  become  a  State  without 
any  further  action  of  Congress.  I  imder- 
siand  that  any  action  whatever,  in  departure 
from  that  act,  will  bring  us  again  before  Con- 
gress,and  place  us  in  extreme  peril,  a  position  in 
which  we  ought  not  to  be  placed  under  any 
circumstances  whatever. 

The  gentleman  from  Nicollet  (Mr.  Davis) 
has  said  that  this  resolution  if  passed  will  op- 
erate merely  as  a  memorial  by  which  to  bring 
the  subject  before  Congress.  That  of  itself 
is  sufficient  reason  why  it  should  be  rejected. 
Congress  would  then  be  authorized  to  dispute 
the  right  of  our  senators  and  representatives 
that  we  may  send  there ;  and  Congress,  that 
so  bitterly  opposes  the  admission  of  every  free 
State,  that  nearly  refused  admission  to  Cali- 
fornia, that  nearly  failed  to  pass  the  Enabling 
Act,  would  easily  seize  upon  that  as  a  pre- 
text to  embarrass  the  subject  of  our  admission, 
and  might  postpone  th«t  event  for  a  long  pe- 
riod of  time.  If  we  know  that  the  last  House 
was  Republican,  or  nearly  balanced,  we  know 
that  the  next  House  will  be  Democratic  ftnd 
much  more  strongly  opposed  to  the  admission 
of  Minnesota  than  the  last  was ;  while  the 
Senate  would  seek  a  pretext  for  preventing 
her  admission.  Minnesota  was  thought  then 
to  be  Democratic,  while  we  now  believe  her 
to  be  Republican.  That,  of  course,  would  be 
an  additional  reason,  and  a  strong  one,  for 
rejecting  her.  I  honestly  believe  that  any 
such  action  upon  our  part  would  ensure  the 
rejection  of  the  application  of  this  State,  as 
an  independent  State,  for  a  considerable  length 
of  time,  I  will  not  undertake  to  say  how  long. 
I  cannot  conceive  of  any  tiling  more  insane 
and  suicidal  than  such  action  upon  the  part  of 
this  Convention,  and  I  do  not  understand 
what  reason  there  is  now,  for  any  such  action. 


It  is  said  that  there  have  been  pubUc  meet- 
ings held  upon  this  subject  in  certain  locali- 
ties, and  it  is  said  that  the  reasons  which  op- 
erate in  this  case  are  not  of  a  national  char- 
acter ;  not  of  a  character  that  looks  to  the  in- 
terests of  the  State  in  a  large  point  of  view ; 
but  that  they  grow  out  simply  on  the  ques- 
tion of  the  removal  of  the  capitol.  Now  that 
is  a  point  upon  which  I  am  absolutely  indif- 
ferent. If  the  people  wish  to  move  it,  I  shall 
raise  no  objection,  but  I  protest  strongly 
against  this  Convention  being  operated  upon 
by  the  movements  of  gentlemen  who  have 
that  in  view.  It  is  not  a  subject  which  properly 
concerns  this  Convention,  nor  should  consid- 
erations growing  out  of  that  question  sway 
their  minds  at  all  here.  I  think  those  gentle- 
men who  come  up  here  and  try  to  influence 
our  action  by  such  motives,  show  no  case 
whatever  why  we  should  peril  the  probabDity 
of  our  admission  as  a  State,  and  render  it 
problematical  whether  we  shall  be  admitted. 
I  think  the  action  they  recommend  is  repro- 
bated upon  its  face,  under  the  circumstances 
in  which  we  are  placed. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  I  propose  to  amend,  by 
inserting  after  the  words  "  up  the  main  chan- 
"  nel  of  the  Mississippi  river,"  the  words,  "  to 
"  the  mouth  of  the  Chippewa  river,  thence  up 
"  the  main  channel  of  the  Chippewa  river  to 
"its  source;  thence  in  a  right  line  to  the 
"46th  parallel  of  north  latitude." 

Much  has  been  said  about  making  this  a 
square  State  and  I  think  while  we  are  about 
it,  we  might  as  well  go  the  whole  figure. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  I  had  hoped  that 
some  gentleman  would  rise  in  his  place  and 
show  some  reason  why  this  resolution  should 
not  be  adopted.  I  did  hope  that  some  of 
those  men  who  are  so  bitterly  opposed  to 
leaving  this  question  to  be  decided  by  the 
people,  would  come  here  this  morning  and 
give  us  some  substantial  reasons  why  tliis 
question  should  not  be  left,  to  the  people,  to 
be  decided  by  them  as  they  see  fit  I  did 
not  suppose  that  an  amendment  such  as  has 
been  oflfered  by  the  gentleman  from  Chisago 
(Mr.  STANNABD)Vould  havo  been  introduced, 
and  introduced  in  place  of  an  argument.  1 
did  not  suppose  that  a  gcntleuaan  of  the 
standing  of  my  friend  from  Chisago  would 
undertake  to  throw  burlesque  upon  this  ques- 
tion, and  I  regret  it  very  much. 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Tuesday,  August  11. 


419 


Mr.  Chairman,  this  is  simply  a  question  as 
to  whether  the  people  shall  decide  this  ques- 
tion ofTboundary  themselves.  And  gentlemen 
seek  to  avoid  that  issue  by  introducing  amend- 
ments which  are  of  a  character  which  tend  to 
throw  ridicule  and  burlesque  upon  the  ques- 
tion. The  gentleman  who  preceded  the  gen- 
tleman from  Chisago  stated  honestly  and  fairly 
that  he  should  vote  against  this  resolution  ; 
and  he  went  on  to  give  his  reasons.  Those 
reasons  were,  substantially,  that  by  voting  for 
this  resolution  he  would  be  lending  a  hand  in 
carrying  out  a  proposition  that  would  embar- 
rass our  admission  into'the  Union ;  in  other 
words,  that  if  this  resolution  was  adopted, 
and  this  proposition  was  submitted  to  the  peo- 
ple as  a  separate  proposition,  that  the  ten- 
dency would  be  to  embarrass  our  admission 
into  the  Union  as  a  State.  If  that  is  so,  the 
objection  is  a  good  and  cogent  one.  Let  us 
examine  it  and  see  if  it  is  true.  The  resolu- 
tion simply  proposes  to  leave  the  question  of 
boimdary  to  the  people  to  be  decided  by 
them.  It  proposes  to  leave  it  to  them  in  the 
shape  of  a  separate  proposition,  and  it  pro- 
poses to  leave  it  in  such  a  manner  that  the 
people  simply  express  theu"  wish  and  prefer- 
ence in  regard  to  what  this  boundary  line 
shall  be.  Now  sir,  it  is  admitted  here,  that 
we  will  "submit  other  questions  as  separate 
propositions — as,  for  instance,  the  question  as 
to  the  right  of  colored  persons  to  vote.  Has 
any  gentleman  risen  in  his  place  here  and 
said  that  by  submitting  such  a  proposition, 
we  embarrass  our  admission  into  the  Union 
as  a  State  ?  Not  at  all.  No  such  argument 
has  been  made  use  of,  when  it  has  been  urged 
here  that  we  should  submit  that  proposition 
as  a  separate  proposition  to  be  voted  on  by 
the  people. 

Now  if  that  proposition  does  not  embarrass 
our  admission  into  the  Union  as  a  State,  how 
happens  it  that  this  proposition,  if  submitted 
to  the  people  in  the  same  way  and  manner, 
is  going  to  operate  to  embarrass  our  admission 
into  the  Union  ?  Will  gentlemen  tell  us  the 
reasons  ?  I  tell  you,  Mr.  Chaibman,  that  it  is 
not  going  to  embarrass  our  admission  into  the 
Union  at  all,  and  I  say  that  simply  submitting 
this  question  to  the  people  to  be  decided  by 
them,  in  the  shape  of  a  preference,  or  wish, 
or  desire,  not  only  will  not  embarrass  our 
admission  into  the  Union,  but  will  tend  to 


expedite  our  admission  as  a  State,  and  I  will 
tell  yoi?  why.  It  has  been  stated  by  the 
gentleman  from  Chisago  (Mr.  Lowe)  that 
there  is  but  little  feeling  in  regard  to  this 
matter,  and  that  that  feeling  has  arisen  in 
certain  localities  from  a  desire  to  have  the 
Capitol  removed  to  their  locality.  Now,  sir, 
I  stand  here,  speaking  for  that  section  of  the 
country,  and  say  that  the  majority  of  that 
people  repudiate  the  idea  of  having  the  Capitol 
removed  there  for  the  present,  to  say  the 
least  of  it.  In  talking  with  those  men  about 
this  subject  of  boundary,  they  all  say  that 
their  interest  in  it  does  not  arise  from  their 
wish  to  have  the  Capitol  removed  to  their 
section  of  the  country;  for  they  do  not 
expect  that,  for  a  long  time  to  come ;  that 
they  want  this  East  and  West  line  adopted 
for  the  reason  that  it  will  make  us  a  rich  and 
powerful  State.  Such  is  the  reason  they 
urge. 

But  as  I  said  yesterday,  I  do  not  propose  to 
enter  into  a  discussion  of  the  merits  of  the  ques- 
tion. Whatever  may  be  said,  both  for  and 
against  this  East  and  West  line,  may  be  said 
to  the  people  when  this  proposition  is  properly 
before  them.  But  upon  this  naked  question 
as  to  whether  we  will  submit  it,  it  seems  to 
me  that  there  should  be  but  one  sentiment. 
It  seems  to  me  as  though  we  should  have  full 
confidence  in  the  people,  and  say  to  them  that 
they  are  competent  to  settle  this  question- 
just  as  competent  to  decide  the  judiciary,  or 
the  negro,  or  any  other  propositions  which 
may  be  submitted  to  them  for  their  rejection 
or  ratification. 

If  there  were  any  truth  in  the  assertion  that 
it  would  tend  to  embarrass  us  in  the  least,  in 
the  matter  of  our  admission  into  the  Union,  I 
should  say  that  that  was  a  consideration  which 
we  shovild  take  into  view.  If  it  is  voted  down 
as  a  matter  of  course,  we  come  into  the  Union 
just  as  well ;  and  if  voted  for  by  a  majority, 
it  goes  with  the  Constitution  to  Congress  just 
the  same  as  the  negro  question  goes  there, 
and  it  is  for  Congress  to  determine  whether 
they  will  grant  that  preference  or  not,  just  as 
it  is  for  Congress  to  say  whether  or  not  we 
have  a  Republican  Constitution,  when  that 
negro  clause  is  in  it.  If  Congress  sees  fit  to 
grant  our  desire  we  shall  rejoice  at  it,  and  i  f 
they  refuse  to  grant  it,  they  do  no  less  than 
they  did  to  the  State  of  Wisconsin.     At  the 


4^0 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Tuesday,  August  11. 


time  Wisconsin  formed  her  Constitution,  she 
inserted  an  article  like  this. 

"Provided,  however,  that  the  following  altera- 
tion of  the  aforesaid  boundary  be  and  hereby  is 
proposed  to  the  Congress  of  the  United  States, 
as  the  preference  of  the  State  of  Wisconsin,  and 
if  the  same  shall  be  assented  and  agreed  to  by  the 
Congress  of  the  United  States,  then  the  same  shall 
be  and  forever  remain  obligatory  on  the  State  of 
Wisconsin,  &c." 

That  was  incorporated  into  her  Constitu- 
tion without  having  the  question  submitted  to 
the  people  all.  It  was  made  part  and  parcel 
of  her  Constitution  under  an  Enabling  Act 
precisely  like  ours  in  all  essential  particulars. 
It  was  sent  to  Congress,  and  Congress  rejected 
it,  but  there  was  no  trouble.  She  came  into 
:  the  Union  just  as  exactly  as  well  as  she  would 
have  done,  provided  that  provision  had  not 
been  contained  in  her  Constitution.  There 
was  no  embarrassment  there,  and  it  seems  to 
me  that  if  there  were  no  embarrassment  there, 
there  can  be  no  embarrassment  in  our  case. 
All  that  Congress  has  to  do  is  to  say  whether 
she  will  grant  our  petition  or  not.  She  can 
do  neither  more  nor  less  than  she  did  in  the 
Wisconsin  case.  That  is  all  a  perfect  hum- 
bug. It  is  all  hue  and  cry  got  up  for  the 
purpose  of  shielding  certain  gentlemen  in 
voting  in  a  manner  substantially  saying  that 
the  people  are  not  competent  to  decide  this 
question  for  themselves;  for  it  is  nothing 
more  or  less  than  the  question  whether  the 
people  are  qualified  to  decide  for  themselves 
or  not.  Whether  an  East  and  West  line  is 
the  better  line,  or  a  North  and  South  line  is 
the  better  line,  I  do  not  pretend  to  say.  We 
will  discuss  that  question  before  the  people, 
and  I  want  it  before  the  people  so  that  they 
can  discuss  it,  and  when  it  is,  I  shall  take 
such  sides  as  my  judgment  approves. 

Mr.  LOWE.  As  the  gentleman  has  made 
special  reference  to  some  remarks  of  mine,  I 
beg  the  indulgence^  of  the  Convention  for  a 
moment  again. 

Mr.  FOSTER.  Will  the  gentleman  from 
Chisago  allow  me  to  offer  an  amendment  just 
here,  and  then  I  will  yield  the  floor  to  him. 

Mr.  LOWE.     Certainly. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  I  withdraw  my  amend- 
ment 

Mr.  FOSTER.  I  offer  the  following  substi- 
tute for  the  resolution : 


"The  people  are  hereby  authorized  to  vote  on  a 
separate  ballot  for  such  boundary  line  for  the  State 
of  Minnesota  as  they  shall  desire;  and  if  a  majority 
of  all  the  votes  cast  for  and  against  the  Constitu- 
tion shall  be  in  favor  of  a  different  line  from  that 
prescribed  in  the  first  article  of  this  Constitution, 
the  said  vote,  on  being  certified  by  the  Governor 
of  this  State  to  both  Houses  of  Congress,  shall  be 
the  memorial  of  the  people  of  Minnesota,  asking 
Congress  to  modify  the  boundary  line  of  Minne- 
sota, in  the  manner  and  form  indicated  as  afore- 
said, by  the  votes  of  a  majority  of  the  people." 

Mr.  LOWE.  The  point  of  controversy 
between  the  gentleman  from  Steele  county 
(Mr.  Coggswell)  .and  myself  is  simply 
whether  such  action,  on  our  part,  as  he 
recommends,  would  be  hkely  to  embarrass 
the  admission  of  Minnesota  into  the  Union  as 
a  State.  I  feel  that  the  inevitable  result  must 
be  so,  if  it  should  be  accepted  by  Congress. 
If  it  should  be  rejected,  as  it  was  in  the  case 
of  Wisconsin,  it  is  true  it  might  not  have  that 
effect.  But  our  case  is  different  from  what 
theirs  was.  In  the  case  of  Wisconsin,  no 
objection  whatever  was  anticipated.  No 
objection  was  made  in  Congress  to  the  passage 
of  their  Enabling  Act. 

But  I  take  it  that  if  we  go  to  Congress  as 
a  Republican  State,  we  shall  be  encountered 
by  all  the  opposition  that  can  possibly  be 
made ;  and  hence  it  is  necessary  to  use  ex- 
treme caution  in  our  movements.  I  would 
not  object  to  leaving  the  question  to  the  peo- 
ple imder  ordinary  circumstances,  but  I  do 
object  to  it,  in  view  of  the  circumstances  in 
which  this  Convention  is  placed.  If  there  is 
any  such  thing  as  good  sense,  and  discretion, 
in  regard  to  the  future,  I  maintain  that  the 
course  we  should  take  under  such  cu'cum- 
stances  as  the  present  is  one  of  extreme  cau- 
tion. Any  other  course  would  expose  the 
future  of  Minnesota  to  imminent  danger.  1 
say  It  in  spite  of  the  gentleman's  assertion, 
and  I  appeal  to  the  Convention  if  I  am  not 
right  in  my  position.  If  this  proposition 
should  pass  and  be  accepted  by  Congress — 
and  it  might  be  for  the  very  purpose  of  em- 
barrassing our  future — then  our  choice  of 
Senators  and  Representatives  falls  to  the 
ground,  and  the  whole  Constitution  falls  to 
'  the  ground  also.  What  right  has  this  body 
to  make  a  Constitution  for  Southern  Minne- 
sota ?  This  Constitution  is  not  made  by  the 
people  of  that  section,  and  the  moment  you 


MINNESOTA  CONTENTION  DEBATES— Tcesdat,  August  11. 


421 


change  the  boundaries  all  our  labors  fall  to 
the  ground,  if  Congress  accepts  that  boun- 
dary. 

That  is  a  fair  view  of  the  case,  and  a  view, 
which  many  members  of  Congress  would  like 
to  take.  The  ascendancy  of  the  southern 
Democracy,  both  in  the  Senate  and  House  of 
Representatives,  came  near  defeating  the  En- 
abling Act,  in  spite  of  the  efforts  of  the  dele- 
gate from  this  Territory,  who  used  all  the 
efforts  possible  to  be  used.  I  say,  in  spite  of 
all  that,  the  southern  ascendancy  nearly  pre- 
vented the  passage  of  the  Enabling  Act, 
when  there  was  not  a  shadow  of  reason  for 
it.  What,  then,  will  they  do,  when  they 
have  not  only  a  shadow  of  reason,  but  a  good 
reason  for  embarrassing  the  admission  of  our 
Territory  as  a  State?  I  will  not  insult  the 
understanding  of  this  Convention  by  under- 
taking to  argue  that  question.  It  looks  to  me 
self-evident  upon  the  face  of  it,  and  I  am  wil- 
ling to  leave  the  matter  with  the  Conven- 
tion. 

Mr.  FOLSOM.  I  am  in  favor  of  the  sub- 
stitute offered  by  the  gentleman  from  Dakota, 
(Mr.  Fosteb)  and  I  shall  vote  for  it,  and 
against  the  resolution.  I  do  not  see  why  this 
Convention  shoiold  establish  a  line  different 
from  that  which  was  given  to  us  by  Congress. 
If  they  are  going  to  submit  the  question  to 
the  people  at  all,  let  them  leave  it  to  their 
choice  entirely  untrammeled.  Let  them  be 
their  own  judges,  and  let  not  the  Convention 
dictate  to  them  upon  what  particular  boun- 
dary they  shall  vote.  The  time  Republican 
doctrine  is  to  leave  the  question  to  the  people 
unrestrained  by  any  such  restrictions.  If 
this  Convention  wishes  to  debar  us  from  the 
benefits  of  the  Enabling  Act,  and  thereby 
throw  obstacles  in  the  way  of  our  coming 
into  the  Union  upon  an  equal  footing  with  the 
original  States,  let  us  decide  so  at  once ;  let 
us  go  back  and  reconsider  the  vote  by  which 
we  accepted  the  Enabling  Act.  But  if  we 
are  going  to  stand  by  that  act,  let  us  stand  up 
to  it  fairly  and  squarely  without  dodging.  I 
contend  that  in  sending  out  to  the  people  the 
Constitution  which  we  are  framing,  with  the 
boundaries  established  by  the  Government, 
we  do  leave"  the  people  to  decide  whether  or 
not  they  are  satisfied  with  the  boundaries.  If 
they  are  not  satisfied  let  them  reject  the  Con- 
stitution.   I  contend  that  we  have  no  right  to 


depart  from  the  boundaries  laid  down  by  Con- 
gress. But  if  we  are  going  to  submit  the 
question  at  all,  let  every  one  vote  as  he  sees 
fit.  I  am  satisfied  that  a  majority  of  the  peo- 
ple are  not  in  favor  of  the  boundary  proposed 
in  the  resolution.  I  know  that  the  whole 
northern  portion  of  the  Territory,  if  an  east 
and  west  Une  is  to  be  forced  upon  them,  do 
not  wish  that  line  to  be  upon  the  forty-sixth 
degree  of  north  latitude. 

Mr.  WILSON.  It  is  a  little  amusing,  and 
a  little  astonishing,  that  men,  with  apparent 
honest,  sober  faces,  will  talk  as  my  friend  has 
done  who  has  just  taken  his  seat ;  and  cer- 
tainly I  am  astonished  that  any  gentleman 
should  offer  such  an  amendment  as  has  been 
offered  by  the  gentleman  from  Dakota  if  he 
is  in  earnest  about  the  matter.  If  gentlemen 
want  to  while  away  time,  as  though  they 
were  at  some  school  boy  lyceum,  it  might 
do ;  but  when  men  are  acting  upon  a  matter 
of  vital  importance  to  the  people,  to  trifle 
in  this  manner  with  the  Convention  is  what  I 
do  not  understand.  Who  does  not  know  that 
if  this  question  is  submitted  to  a  vote  of  the 
people  as  proposed  by  the  substitute,  there 
will  be  some  dozen  different  lines  voted  for  ? 
Who  does  not  know  that  there  will  be  no 
unanimity  ?  To  remove  the  seat  of  govern- 
ment from  St.  Paul,  it  would  be  necessary 
that  a  greater  number  of  votes  be  cast  in 
favor  of  any  one  particular  place,  than  one 
half  the  whole  number  of  votes  cast  for  all 
other  places.  Now  where  there  are  five  or 
six  different  lines  proposed  there  are  five  or 
six  to  one  against  us.  It  comes  with  bad 
grace  for  gentlemen  to  amend  our  proposition, 
who  are  themselves  opposed  to  it  in  toto,  and 
forsooth,  its  most  deadly  enemies.  Our  own 
fiiends  can  amend  our  own  proposition.  They 
who  want  a  different  line  from  the  one  already 
agreed  upon — the  line  of  the  Enabling  Act — 
may  come  up  and  assist  in  amending  it.  But 
.  gentlemen  who  are  opposed  to  any  change, 
ought  to  be  satisfied  to  vote  against  it,  and  to 
meddle  with  it  otherwise  shows  what  it  is 
done  for.  Those  of  us  who  want  a  boundary 
different  from  the  one  contained  in  the  Ena- 
bling Act,  ask  for  the  boimdary  agreed  upon 
in  the  resolution.  I  do  not  know  that  there 
is  any  difference  of  opinion  among  them  upon 
that. 

As  I  said  yesterday,  I  represent  two  coun- 


422 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Tuesday,  August  11. 


ties,  in  one  of  which  probably  two-thirds  of 
the  inhabitants  are  in  favor  of  the  north  and 
south  line,  proposed  in  the  Enabling  Act.  I 
objected  to  acting  upon  this  resolution  yester- 
day in  the  absence  of  the  delegates  from  that 
county.  One  of  those  delegates  is  present 
to-day,  and  one  of  the  delegates  from  my  own 
county,  who  is  a  strong  east  and  west  line 
man,  is  absent,  and  I  stand  here  upon  this 
floor  the  sole  representative  from  that  county, 
in  favor  of  this  proposed  change.  I  support 
it  because  I  believe  it  will  be  for  the  greatest 
good  of  the  greatest  number  of  the  people  of 
this  Territory,  embraced  within  the  limits  of 
the  proposed  State.  I  gave  notice,  a  day  or 
two  since,  that  I  should  introduce  a  proposi- 
tion of  this  kind  myself;  but  I  found  that  my 
friend  from  Nicollet  had  bestowed  a  great  deal 
more  labor  upon  it  than  I  had,  find  was  doing 
his  best  to  carry  such  a  proposition.  It  is  of- 
fered by  him,  and  comes  properly  from  him. 
He  lives  in  a  county  where  there  is  much  feel- 
ing upon  the  subject.  I  am  glad  to  operate 
with  him,  and  if  the  proposition  carries,  he 
will  deserve  a  great  deal  of  praise — for  praise 
it  will  be. 

It  is  said,  in  opposition  to  this  resolution, 
that  Congress  has  proposed  boundaries  for 
us,  and  therefore  we  are  restricted,  and  have 
no  right  to  say  anything  about  another  line. 
Now  I  happened  to  be  in  Washington  at  the 
time  the  boundaries  were  fixed,  and  I  know 
the  influences  which  were  brought  to  bear 
upon  the  committee  of  the  House  of  Repre- 
sentatives who  reported  the  bill  establishing 
this  boundary.  I  know  who  labored  day  and 
night  with  that  committee  ;  I  know  who  stated 
that  it  was  a  sine  qua  noii  for  the  admission 
of  Minnesota.  I  do  know  a  few  leading  men, 
who  made  that  committee,  and  who  made 
Congress  believe,  that  they  represented  the 
wishes  of  the  people  of  Minnesota,  when  they 
represented  that  that  was  the  boundary  de- 
sired by  the  people  of  this  Territory — leading 
men  of  both  parties,  I  will  say,  both  Demo- 
crats and  Republicans.  I,  for  one,  remon- 
strated against  it.  But  I  was  a  stranger 
among  them.  One  of  the  committee  voted 
against  it,  and  one  of  my  acquaintances  voted 
against  it,  and  opposed  it  to  the  bitter  end. 
Most  of  the  committee — for  there  was  an  im- 
mense pressure  brought  to  bear  upon  them — 
went  in  favor  of  the  boundary  proposed  in 


the  Enabling  Act,  because  they  were  made  to 
believe  that  the  people  of  Minnesota  wished 
it  so.  I  can  speak  from  actual  knowledge, 
and  I  think  no  gentleman  can  deny  what  I 
state ;  I  have  no  doubt  whatever  that  Con- 
gress would  as  freely  admit  us  under  the 
boundaries  proposed  in  this  resolution,  as  un- 
der those  of  the  Enabling  Act,  and  I  do  not 
believe  that  any  gentleman  upon  this  floor  has 
any  gi'ound  for  believing  otherwise.  No  one 
shows,  or  pretends  to  show  that  it  would  be 
any  disadvantage  to  Congress  to  admit  us 
with  diiferent  boundaries.  Now  it  is  a  mat- 
ter susceptible  of  proof  that  the  whole  West 
is  interested  in  having  the  boundaries  pro- 
posed in  this  resolution.  It  is  for  the  interest 
of  the  whole  West  to  have  as  large  a  repre- 
sentation in  Congress  as  possible,  and  I  think 
any  man  can  see  that  this  change  will  give  us 
two  additional  United  States  Senators  much 
sooner  than  if  the  north  and  south  line  is  ad- 
hered to.  This  is  a  matter  which  the  people 
of  the  North-west  feel  an  interest  in.  Who 
does  not  know  that,  if  we  take  the  bounda- 
ries proposed  in  the  resolution,  we  shall  soon 
have  another  State  north  of  this  ?  Who  does 
not  know  that  it  will  increase  in  population 
much  faster,  if  set  off"  by  itself?  Now  if 
Congress  would  not  admit  us,  it  must  be  be- 
cause we  are  cutting  up  the  Territory  and 
leaving  it  in  a  bad  shape  for  another  State. 
Now  gentlemen's  own  arguments  show  that 
we  leave  the  remaining  Territory  in  a  better 
shape.  Therefore,  it  would  be  for  the  interest 
of  Congress  to  admit  us  with  those  bounda- 
ries, rather  than  the  boundaries  proposed  by 
the  Enabling  Act. 

But,  as  remarked  by  my  fi-iend  from  Steele 
county,  (Mr.  Coggsweli^)  I  am  not  going  to 
argue  this  question  further.  I  have,  perhaps, 
talked  about  it  as  much  as  any  gentleman 
in  this  Convention.  But  I  wish  to  say  this 
much  further,  that  here  is  a  proposition  to 
test  the  correctness  of  the  representations 
made  last  winter  by  our  leading  men  at 
Washington,  as  to  the  wishes  of  our  people 
in  reference  to  this  north  and  south  line.  I 
say  that  I  really  believe  that  the  people  of 
this  Territory  do  prefer  an  east  and  west  line 
to  that  proposed  in  the  Enabling  Act.  And 
I  say  here  again,  that  I  do  not  see  how  gen- 
tlemen, and  especially  gentlemen  who  have 
had  no  objection  before  tliis,  can  believe  that 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Tuesday,  August  11. 


423 


we  should  be  excluded  from  coming  into  the 
Union  on  account  of  rejecting  the  boundaries 
of  the  Enabling  Act,  and  choosing  some  other. 
Let  the  people  say  what  they  do  want,  and 
let  us  see  whether  they  want  an  east  and  west, 
or  a  north  and  south  line. 

Let  our  people  see  that  we  are  not  of  those 
who  forbid  them  from  having  a  fair  apportion- 
ment. The  scenes  of  the  last  winter  were 
the  most  disgraceful  ever  enacted  in  this  Ter- 
ritory. The  Legislature  prevented  the  people 
from  having  a  fair  apportionment  and  a  fair 
representation  in  this  Constitutional  Conven- 
tion ;  and  they  said  boldly,  that  if  they  should 
let  the  people  have  it,  they  would  go  in  for 
an  east  and  west  line  of  division. 

As  to  this  matter  of  removal  of  the  Capital, 
let  me  say  that  I  had  no  sympathy  with  that 
Capital  movement  last  winter.  I  deemed  it 
impolitic  and  unwise,  and  was  opposed  to  it. 
I  thought  the  movement  was  premature, 
though  the  majority  were  actuated  by  the 
best  motives  and  thought  they  were  doing 
the  best  thing  imaginable.  I  have  no  feeling 
in  common  with  them  upon  that  one  point. 
That  is  not  what  we  are  after  now.  We  are 
after  the  greatest  good  for  the  whole  people 
of  Minnesota.  We  are  testing  this  question 
of  boundary  fairly,  and  every  one  can  meet 
us  fairly.  I  hope  the  matter  will  be  left  to 
the  people,  so  that  Congress  may  know  ,what 
the  people  want  from  their  own  mouths,  and 
not  be  dependent  upon  the  representations  of 
interested  parties.  As  I  said,  on  a  former 
occasion,  the  first  petition  which  was  ever  got 
up  for  the  Enabling  Act,  was  got  up  in  and 
around  Winona.  We  all  worked  for  it  there, 
with  the  express  understanding  that  it  was  to 
be  with  an  east  and  west  boundary.  That 
petition  went  to  Congress ;  I  saw  it  there ; 
and  therent  was  used  as  a  petition  for  a  north 
and  south  line,  contrary  to  our  express  wishes. 
It  was  used  for  a  purpose  to  which,  above  all 
others,  we  were  opposed. 

As  to  the  substitute  proposed  by  the  gen- 
tleman from  Hastings,  (Mr.  Foster)  I  want 
to  see  it  voted  down  of  course,  and  I  do  not 
think  there  ought  to  be  any  ceremony  upon 
it.  I  hope  gentlemen  who  are  not  friendly  to 
this  movement  at  all,  who  want  to  kill  it 
by  direction  or  indirection,  will  not  trouble  us 
with  amendments  which  amount  to  nothing 
except  for  delay.     If  they  think  that  any  man 


here  upon  our  side  is  foolish  enough  to 
be  led  off  by  any  such  thing  as  that,  I  want 
to  show  them  that  they  are  mistaken.  As  to 
taking  in  part  of  Wisconsin,  as  proposed  by 
the  gentleman  from  Chisago,  that  is  just  as 
plausible  as  this  substitute.  They  are  both 
of  a  piece. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  It  is  rather  unfortu- 
nate for  my  colleague  Mr.  Lowe,  and  myself, 
that  we  have  to  stand  almost  alone  from  the 
northern  part  of  the  Territory.  It  so  hap- 
pens that  nearly  all  the  delegates  from  the 
northern  part  of  the  Territory  belong  in  the 
other  wing  of  the  Capitol.  But,  sir,  I  cannot 
sit  here  quietly  and  hear  such  remarks  as 
have  been  uttered  upon  this  floor.  I  hardly 
know  whether  the  gentleman  from  Winona 
(Mr.  Wilson)  in  using  the  term  "humbug" 
referred  to  me  or  to  the  gentleman  from  Da- 
kota, (Mr.  Foster)  in  reference  to  the  treat- 
ment we  were  disposed  to  observe  towards 
this  resolution.  I  believe,  in  the  first  place, 
that  Congress  has  the  right  to  dispose  of,  and 
make  all  needful  rules  and  regulations  re- 
specting the  Territories  of  the  United  States, 
and  that  they  have  the  right  to  prescribe  our 
boundaries.  We  have  been  let  into  the  secret 
agencies  and  causes  which  perhaps  operated  at 
Washington  last  winter,  in  procuring  the 
passage  of  this  Enabling  Act.  But,  sir,  I  am 
confident  that  the  committee  on  Territories 
had  in  view,  at  the  same  time,  the  interest  of 
the  whole  Northwest,  and  had  in  view  the 
future  projected  States,  when  they  carved  out 
the  State  of  Minnesota  as  described  in  the  En- 
abling Act,  and  that  they  had  an  eye  single 
to  the  formation  of  other  States.  It  is  said 
that  we  manifest  an  undue  feeling  in  regard 
to  this  matter.  Let  us  look  at  the  case  as  it 
stands.  Here  is  a  projected  east  and  west 
line,  which  does  not  intersect  the  district  of 
either  the  gentlemen  from  Nicollet  (Mr.  Davis) 
or  the  district  of  the  gentleman  from  Winona, 
(Mr.  Wilson).  It  in  no  way  disfranchises 
any  portion  of  their  constituents.  Nor  does 
it  divide  them  from  their  natural  thorough- 
fares. On  the  other  hand  the  line  which  the 
gentlemen  propose  to  submit  to  the  people, 
does  cut  in  two  my  district.  Now  where 
does  the  proposition  come  from?  Does  it 
come  from  those  whose  districts  are  cut  up 
by  a  north  and  south  line  ?  Not  at  all.  And 
I  can  see  no  other  reason  why  they  should 


424 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Tuesday,  August  .11 


urge  it,  than  that  it  will  change  the  geograph- 
ical centre  of  the  State,  and  bring  the  seat  of 
government,  eventually,  into  one  or  the  other 
of  those  gentleman's  districts.  If  so,  then  I 
can  understand  why  the  gentleman  from  Wi- 
nona feels  so  much  interest  in  it.  The  Capi- 
tol of  the  State,  whenever  located,  must,  ne- 
cessarily bring  with  it  a  great  deal  of  business 
to  the  people;  and  consequently  Winona, 
occupying  the  position  she  does,  must  neces- 
sarily be  the  outlet  of  that  business,  and  of 
course  it  would  be  for  her  benefit. 

I  believe  that  the  Enabling  Act  is  just  as 
binding  upon  us  as  any  act  of  Congress,  and 
I  introduced  my  amendment  merely  that  gen- 
tlemen might  see  where  they  stood.  I  am 
glad  that  the  gentleman  from  Steele  county 
(Mr.  Coggswell)  referred  to  the  case  of  Wis- 
consin. A  portion  of  my  district  was  settled 
at  that  very  time,  and  one  gentleman  who 
now  occupies  a  seat  in  the  other  end  of  the 
Capitol  was  a  member  of  that  Wisconsin  Con- 
vention, and  it  is  a  fact  that  he  lived  as  much 
upon  this  side  of  the  St.  Croix  river  as  upon 
the  other.  He  represented  this  whole  Terri- 
tory, and  that  portion  of  this  Territory  lying 
north  of  the  Mississippi  river,  was  the  only 
portion  to  which  the  Indian  title  had  been 
extinguished,  and  it  was  then  the  wish  of  the 
people  of  that  part  of  this  Territory — and  the 
gentlemen  in  the  other  wing  of  the  Capitol  to 
whom  I  have  referred  supported  that  wish — 
to  come  under  the  State  government  of  Wis- 
consin. And  the  clause  in  their  Constitution 
which  the  gentleman  from  Steele  county  read, 
shows  that  the  only  then  settled  portion  of 
Minnesota,  was  included  within  that  proposed 
alteration  of  boundary.  The]  people  were 
anxious  to  come  under  a  State  government 
but  Congress  refused  to  admit  them,  and  now 
gentlemen  would  shut  us  out  again. 

It  has  been  charged  upon  the  Legislature 
of  last  winter  that  they  refused  to  make  an 
apportionment. 

Now,  Mr.  Chaieman,  I  do  pretend  to  know 
something  about  that  matter.  An  apportion- 
ment bill  was  prepared,  in  the  House  of  Rep- 
resentatives, which  nearly  doubled  the  repre- 
sentation of  Southern  Minnesota,  and  lessened 
the  representation  of  Northern  Minnesota,  and 
I  do  know  that  the  representatives  from 
Northern  Minnesota  supported  that  bill  in  the 


House  of  Representatives.    I  can  show  it  by 
the  journal  of  the  House. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  As  this  is  a  matter 
of  considerable  interest  to  my  constituents, 
I  hope  the*  committee  will  indulge  me  in  ma- 
king a  few  further  remarks  in  regard  to  the 
amendment  proposed  by  the  gentleman  from 
Dakota  (Mr.  Fosteb.)  I  wish  to  say  here, 
that  if  I  believed  his  proposition  were  more 
Republican  than  ours,  and  we  had  the  ability 
to  carry  out  that  proposition  to  the  extent  to 
which  he  seems  to  think  we  might  we  carry 
it,  I  certainly  would  go  for  it.  But  we  must 
recollect  that  we  were  sent  here  for  the  pur- 
pose of  framing  certain  propositions  to  be  sub- 
mitted to  the, people.  We  came  here  for  the 
purpose  of  framing  certain  propositions  as  to 
the  rights  of  men.  Those  propositions  are 
incorporated  in  what  we  term  the  Bill  of  Rights , 
and  none  of  those  propositions  amount  to 
anything  until  they  have  been  sanctioned  and 
ratified  by  the  people.  We  came  here  to 
frame  certain  propositions  in  regard  to  the 
executive  branch  of  our  State  government. 
None  of  those  propositions  amount  to  any- 
thing until  ratified  by  the  people.  We  came 
here  too  for  the  ^purpose  of  framing  certain 
propositions  in  regard  to  the  legislative  and 
judicial  branches  of  our  State  government. 
None  of  those  propositions  amount  to  any- 
thing until  they  have  been  ratified  by  the  peo- 
ple. 

Now  sir,  if  it  is  not  our  duty  to  frame  cer- 
tain specific  propositions  to  submit  to  the  peo- 
ple, why  not  submit  the  whole  thing  to  the 
people ;  why  not  let  the  people  go  to  the  ballot 
boxes,  and  let  each  one  deposit  in  the  ballot 
box  his  whole  idea  in  regard  to  a  Constitution 
and  State  government  ?  Let  one  man  go  to 
the  ballot  box  and  say  that  a  black  man  may 
be  governor  of  the  State  of  Minnesiota;  let 
another  man  say  that  only  a  white  man  shall 
be  governor  ;  let  another  man  go  to  the  bal- 
lot box  and  say  that  the  governor  shall  hold 
office  two  years ;  Jmd  another  say  he  may 
hold  ten  years ;  let  one  man  go  to  the  ballot 
box  and  say  that  no  man,  unless  he  is  an 
Irishman,  shall  be  judge  of  a  District  Court ; 
and  another  may  say  that  no  man  shall  be  a 
District  Judge  unless  he  was  born  in  the 
State  of  Massachusetts ;  let  one  man  go  to 
the  ballot  box  and  say  that  no  man  shall  be 
judge  who  has  more  than  one  eye ;  and  an- 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Tuesday,  August  11. 


425 


other  man  that  no  person  shall  be  judge  un- 
less he  has  a  lame  leg ;  let  men  go  to  the  bal- 
lot boxes  and  deposit  all  these  conceivable 
ridiculous  propositions.  No  more  ridiculous 
would  that  be,  than  this  proposition  of  the 
gentleman  from  Dakota.  Just  carry  this  same 
thing  into  practical  operation,  in  regard  to  an 
east  and  west  line ;  let  one  man  go  to  the  bal- 
lot box  and  say  that  the  State  of  Minnesota 
shall  be  composed  solely  of  Dakota  County ; 
let  another  man  say  through  the  ballot  box 
that  the  State  shall  be  composed  of  only  a 
particular  district  which  will  subserve  his  po- 
litical interests. 

How  ridiculous,  does  all  this  thing  appear. 
Now  we  all  know  that  we  came  here  for  the 
purpose  of  framing  definite  and  specific  pro- 
positions ;  and  such,  and  such  only  must 
be  submitted  to  the  people.  We  cannot  sub- 
mit any  question  in  the  manner  proposed  by 
the  amendment  of  the  gentleman  from  Dakota 
County.  He,  too,  knows  it,  and  he  takes  the 
course  he  has,  for  the  purpose  of  avoiding  the 
responsibility  of  coming  up  manfully  and  say- 
ing to  a  large  portion  of  the  people  of  Minne- 
sota that  they  shall  not  have  the  right  of  ex- 
pressing their  sentiments  in  regard  to  this 
east  and  west  line. 

Now  if  there  were  any  feeling  in  any  part 
or  portion  of  the  Territory  in  regard  to  any 
other  line  than  the  one  proposed  in  this  reso- 
lution, then  I  should  be  in  favor  of  respect- 
ing that  sentiment  and  of  submitting  a  speci- 
fic proposition,  and  of  allowing  the  people  to 
express  their  views  and  sentiments  in  regard 
to  it.  If  there  were  any  particular  feeling  in 
regard  to  any  particular  line,  and  it  amounted 
to  anything  like  the  feeling  in  regard  to  the 
line  we  have  proposed,  I  certainly  should  be 
in  favor  of  submitting  it  as  a  separate  propo- 
sition. But  there  is  no  feeling  in  regard  to 
any  other  line  than  the  one  mentioned  in  this 
resolution. 

Now  in  regard  to  aU  this  talk  which  we 
have  heard,  in  regard  to  the  efforts  which 
were  made  in  Congress  to  secure  this  particu- 
lar line,  laid  down  in  the  Enabling  Act,  I 
have  nothing  to  say,  for  the  reason  that  it  has 
nothing  to  do  with  the  question  before  us.  In 
regard  to  what  was  done  in  the  Legislature  in 
regard  to  an  apportionment  different  from  the 
one  which  now  exists,  I  have  nothing  to  say 
because  it  has  no  connection  with  the  subject 
54 


under  consideration.  The  only  question  be- 
fore us  is  whether  this  question  shall  be  sub- 
mitted as  a  separate  proposition,  and  when 
that  question  is  brought  before  the  people,  we 
can  tell  them  of  all  the  trickery  and  knavery 
which  existed  at  the  time  this  north  and  south 
line  was  proposed  and  carried  through  Con- 
gress; we  can  tell  them  what  consummate 
rascals  we  had  in  the  last  Legislature,  and 
,  how  they  would  not  allow  us  of  southern 
Minnesota  to  send  up  here  a  proper  represen- 
tation ;  we  can  tell  them  of  the  benefits,  the 
advantages  and  disadvantages,  which  will  arise 
from  the  adoption  of  this  east  and  west  line. 
But  all  these  things  have  nothing  to  do  with 
the  question  as  it  now  stands.  When  it 
comes  before  the  people,  my  friend  from  Chi- 
sago (Mr.  Stannakd)  will  have  an  opportunity 
to  go  before  his  constituents  and  urge  them 
to  vote  against  this  east  and  west  line,  because 
it  will  cut  them  in  two ;  because  it  will  cut 
them  across  the  fifth  rib ;  because  his  chance 
to  get  to  the  Legislature  will  not  be  so  good 
as  they  would  otherwise  be,  and  therefore, 
for  Heaven's  sake  vote  against  it.  Now  that 
is  a  good  argument  before  the  people ;  but 
they  have  nothing  to  do  here  with  this  ques- 
tion, as  to  whether  or  not  th  question  shall 
be  submitted  to  the  people,  and  I  desire  that 
gentlemen  instead  of  lugging  in  all  these  ex- 
traneous matters,  which  are  proper  to  be 
urged  before  the  people,  when  the  question  is 
before  them,  would  come  up  now  and  meet 
the  question  fairly.  If  gentlemen  will  come 
forward  and  say  that  there  is  any  feeling  in 
regard  to  any  other  line,  which  amounts  to 
anything,  though  it  should  cut  Steele  County 
right  in  two,  I  certainly  will  vote  for  submit- 
ting it  to  the  people.  And  why  ?  Because  I 
believe  it  would  be  carrying  out  the  doctrine 
of  popular  sovereignty — the  right  and  power 
and  capacity  of  the  people  to  control  and 
govern  and  decide  these  questions  for  them- 
selves. 

I  will  not  be  backward  or  behind  in  this 
matter.  I  will  not  urge  against  it  the  argu- 
ment which  is  urged  against  us — that  it  cuts 
my  district  in  two.  Notwithstanding  I  may 
suffer,  I  will  vote  for  it,  and  t  ask  gentle- 
men to  come  up  and  meet  this  question  fairly, 
as  to  whether  this  question  shall  be  submit- 
ted to  the  people  or  not.  If  they  say  tha 
there  are  any  four,  six  or  eight  counties  that 


426 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Tcesday,  August  11. 


have  any  feeling  in  regard  to  any  other  par- 
ticular lino,  let  us  have  their  proposition. 
We  have  got,  at  least  seven  or  eight  counties 
in  this  Territory,  which  are  deeply  interested 
in  regard  to  this  line,  and  which  say  out 
plumply,  and  absolutely,  that  unless  they 
have  an  opportunity  to  express  their  views  in 
regard  to  this  matter,  they  will  vote  against 
the  Constitution  which  is  submitted  for  their 
rejection  or  adoption. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  It  has  been  reiterated 
again  that  the  proposition  last  winter,  to  give 
southern  Minnesota  her  fair  representation, 
was  defeated  in  the  House  of  Representatives. 
Sir,  I  deny  that.  It  did  pass  the  House  of 
Representatives. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL,  I  said  that  when  I 
went  before  the  people,  I  would  discuss  that 
question  and  see  whether  it  was  true  or  not. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  My  objection  to  this 
proposition  is  fast  giving  away,  if  the  object 
is  to  manufacture  thunder  for  gentlemen  to 
use  before  the  people. 

Mr.  FOSTER.  I  submitted  my  substitute 
because  it  has  been  my  uniform  practice  here, 
as  all  know,  if  I  cannot  get  exactly  the  prop- 
osition I  want,  to  endeaver  to  put  such 
propositions  as  are  submitted  to  us,  in  the 
best  possible  shape  before  I  am  called  to 
vote  upon  them,  even  though  I  do  not  like 
them  at  all.  That  is  a  fair  rule  in  legislation. 
I  think  when  gentlemen  talk  about  trifling, 
it  is  they  that  are  trifling;  and  when  they 
talk  about  smothering  the  voice  of  the  people, 
it  is  they  that  are  trying  to  smother  the  voice 
of  the  people. 

If  there  is  anything  in  this  matter  of  submit- 
ting to  the  voice  of  the  people,  my  proposition 
does  it  in  the  most  effectual  and  broadest 
manner.  It  does  not  mark  out  a  chalk  line, 
and  say  that  if  the  people  choose  to  vote  for 
that  line,  they  shall  have  the  privilege,  and 
that  they  shall  not  have  the  privilege  of  vot- 
ing for  any  other  line.  I  have  my  doubts 
about  the  propriety  of  submitting  questions 
of  this  kind  to  the  people.  They  have  issues 
enough  before  them,  and  to  throw  in  this 
local  issue,  this  speculative  issue,  this  ques- 
tion as  to  where  the  Capitol  shall  be,  or 
where  certain  town  sites  shall  grow  up — all 
of  which  are  involved  in  this  question— is 
impolitic  and  unwise.  It  ought  not  to  bo 
brought  in  and  made  a  bono  of  contention. 


As  a  general  rule  it  is  not  best  to  submit  any- 
thing but  a  question  involving  a  principle, 
and  this  does  not.  The  question  as  to  whether 
the  word  "white"  should  or  should  not  be 
stricken  from  the  Constitution,  involves  a 
great  principle,  and  is  proper  to  be  submitted 
to  the  people.  But  it  is  a  matter  of  doubtful 
propriety,  to  say  the  least  of  it,  to  submit  to 
the  people  a  question  of  mere  detail — such  as 
the  establishment  of  a  particular  line — especi- 
ally after  Congress  has  prescribed  a  line. 
But  if  the  question  is  to  go  to  the  people,  and 
they  are  to  decide,  I  say  do  not  restrict  them 
to  any  one  or  two  lines.  Let  them  have  the 
largest  liberty  to  express  their  opinions  upon 
the  subject,  I  find  that  those  gentlemen  who 
talk  so  much  about  smothering  the  voice  of 
the  people,  favor  smothering  it,  whenever  it 
does  not  exactly  suit  their  purposes  to  have  it 
expressed.  We  have  had  some  expose  of  the 
motives  which  were  brought  to  bear  in 
Washington  in  order  to  get  this  North  and 
South  line.  The  gentleman  from  Winona 
(Mr.  Wilson)  tells  us  that  certain  influential 
and  prominent  men  managed  that  matter,  and 
fixed  the  line,  and  I  think  that  a  majority  of 
the  Minnesotians  there  would  probably  have  a 
large  influence  in  determining  the  line  reported 
by  the  committee  on  Territories.  If  we  submit 
the  matter  of  boundary  again,  how  do  we 
know  but  what  the  same  influences  will  be 
brought  to  bear,  and  we  have  all  this  trouble 
and  contest  for  nothing?  The  gentleman, 
when  he  went  in  for  an  East  and  West  line  at 
Washington,  was  too  greedy.  Those  gentle- 
men who  were  there,  were  there  not  merely 
for  the  purpose  of  arranging  an  East  and 
West  line,  or  a  North  and  South  line,  but 
they  were  there  for  the  purpose  of  fixing  this 
matter  of  railroads,  and  Winona  got  her 
share,  and  so  did  other  places  in  the  Territory, 
while  Hastings  got  nothing.  Now  when 
Winona  and  those  other  fortunate  portions  of 
the  Territory  have  got  their  share,  they  come 
hero  and  want  to  grab  our  share  too.  They 
want  to  cut  up  the  district  of  my  friend  from 
Chisago  (Mr.  Stannabd)  into  two,  leaving 
one-half  in  one  State,  and  the  other  half  to  go 
into  another ;  and  to  place  my  county  in  the 
North-east  corner  of  a  State.  Now  I  think 
they  ought  to  rest  content,  and  allow  some- 
body else  to  have  a  little  sometliing,  after  they 
have  all  these  railroads  fixed  to  their  liking. 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Tcesday,  Acgcst  11. 


427 


The  gentleman  ftom  Steele  county  (Mr. 
CoGGSWELL,)  has  said  if  he  thought  there 
were  any  considerable  body  of  the  people 
who  were  in  favor  of  any  other  particular  line 
than  the  one  mentioned  in  the  resolution,  he 
would  be  in  fevor  of  giving  them  a  chance  to 
express  their  wishes.  Now  it  is  perfectly  no- 
torious that  the  people  of  St  Paul,  and  of  St. 
Croix,  desire,  if  there  is  to  be  an  east  and 
west  line  at  all,  that  the  Mississippi  and  the  St. 
Croix  shall  form  that  line.  They  want  to  be 
in  the  northern  State,  and  not  in  a  sou&em 
State,  and  no  opinion  has  been  more  strongly 
expressed  than  that.  So  there  is  a  tiiird 
party  who  are  in  fevor  of  another  line  than 
that  mentioned  in  the  resolution.  If  as  the 
gentleman  from  Winona  (Mr.  Wilsos,)  said, 
there  wiU  be  a  thousand  different  lines  named, 
and  consequently,  that  the  east  and  west  line 
they  wanted  for  tlieir  own  purposes,  would 
not  be  likely  to  be  adopted,  I  think  that  is  a 
sufficient  reason  for  not  submmitting  the 
question.  If  the  people  are  in  favor  of  di- 
vers lines,  and  if  the  act  of  Congress  is  to 
be  departed  from  at  all,  why,  let  all  these  va- 
rious views  have  a  full  and  untrammeled  op- 
portunity of  being  expressed.  The  argu- 
ment the  gentleman  uses,  that  his  particu- 
lar line  might  fail,  is  only  an  additional  reason 
and  argument  for  those  who  reaUy  are  in 
fiivor  of  the  people  having  their  own  free-will, 
about  it,  if  it  is  submitted  at  all.  Why  con- 
fine them  down,  and  say,  "  You  shall  not 
"  have  the  privilege  of  voting  for  any  other 
"  line  than  a  certain  specified  line." 

Some  gentleman  has  talked  about  our  dar- 
ing to  vote  not  to  allow  the  people  to  act  upon 
this  matter.  If  we  are  to  talk  in  that  style, 
I,  too,  want  to  say  to  those  gentlemen,  just 
come  up  if  they  dare,  and  vote  against  the 
people  having  this  privilege  in  the  largest 
sense.  I  want  their  names  down  in  black 
and  white,  that  I  may  see  who  really  are  in 
favor  of  allowing  the  people  to  exercise  their 
real  choice  in  this  matter. 

There  is  another  point  which  members  of 
the  Convention  ought  to  reflect  upon,  and 
this  is,  that  by  the  course  of  events,  that 
portion  of  the  Territory  which  would  be  most 
opposed  to  this  East  and  West  line,  is  not 
properly  represented  in  this  Hall.  To  be 
sure,  it  may  be  said  that  it  is  so  by  their  own 
act,  but  still  it  is  a  fact,  and  we  should  move 


very  cautiously  in  what  we  do  by  reason  of 
that  very  fact,  for  which  the  people  of  the 
northern  portion  of  the  Territory  are  not 
themselves  to  be  blamed.  Their  voice  can- 
not be  heard,  and  therefore  you  should 
exercise'a  great  deal  of  forbearance  and  cau- 
tion. Do  not,  because  you  may  have  the 
numerical  strength  coming  from  the  South, 
ignore  those  people,  and  attempt  to  force 
a  state  of  things  upon  them,  when  they  can- 
not have  a  voice  in  the  matter.  It  has  been 
well  said  that]the  people  of  St.  Croix,  and  all 
that  region,  who  are  interested  in  the  most 
vital  manner,  are  not  represented  upon  this 
floor,  as  they  would  have  been  but  for  pecu- 
liar circumstances. 

There  has  been  some  talk  here  about  the 
merits  of  this  question.  Now  I  do  not  pro- 
pose to  enter^into  a  discussion  of  that  matter. 
But  the  idea  of  dividing  this  State  by  an  East 
and  West  line  running  to  the  Missouri  river, 
making  the  State  about  one  hundred  miles 
wide  by  three,  fom*,  or  five  hundred  mUes 
long,  is  to  me  an  most  absurd  idea.  It  would 
be  making  a  State,  too,  which  had  but  one 
interest,  and  that  agricultural.  Congress  pro- 
poses to  unite  into  one  a  people  who  are  now 
connected  together  by  business  relations  and 
associations,  who  are  connected  together  by 
water  communications,  and  who  are  soon  to 
be  intimately  connected  by  this  great  system 
of  railroads  which,  like  a  net  work,  is  to  cover 
the  Territory  fix)m  East  to  West,  and  from 
North  to  South.  Now  I  say  that  when  you 
vmdertake  to  bind  people  together  politically, 
you  should  combine  those  whom  nature  and 
the  geographical  position  of  the  country  has 
connected  together,  and  whose  business 
naturally  brings  them  together,  in  as  near  by 
a  square  form  as  possible.  That,  this  North 
and  South  line  does.  Contrast  the  States 
marked  out  by  those  two  proposed  lines,  and 
consi  ler  their  relative  interests  and  resources. 
There  is  no  comparison  between  them.  That 
marked  out  by  Congress  would  (jombine  agri- 
culture, commerce,  and  the  pineries,  sources 
of  permanent  wealth  and  prosperity  to  the 
State. 

Without  arguing  this  matter  further,  I 
again  repeat  that  if  this  question  is  to  be  sub- 
mitted to  the  people  at  all,  it  should  be  sub- 
mitted in  the  manner  I  have  indicated  in  my 
substitute.     I  hope  gentlemen  upon  this  floor 


428 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Tuesday,  Augitst  11. 


will  not  attempt  to  smother  the  voice  of  the 
people  by  their  proposition. 

Mr.  PERKINS.  I  am  not  impelled  in  my 
course  upon  this  subject  by  the  press  of  any 
public  sentiment  at  home.  I  have  received 
no  letters  urging  me  to  this  or  that  particular 
course  in  regard  to  the  boundary  line  of  the 
State.  But  I  happen  to  have  been  Chairman 
of  the  committee  on  Boundaries,  which  re- 
ported in  favor  of  a  north  and  south  line.  A 
majority  of  the  committee  were  in  favor  of 
the  boundaries  proposed  by  Congress.  There 
was  a  minority,  not  in  favor  of  it.  So  far  as 
the  merits  of  these  two  several  lines  are  con- 
cerned, I  do  not  propose  to  discuss  that. 

There  are  gentlemen  who  understand  the 
interests  of  this  Territory  much  better  than 
I  do,  and  who  understand  its  aspects,  and 
its  resources  in  all  its  parts. 

If  this  resolution  proposed  to  incorporate 
into  the  Constitution  a  clause  declaring  that 
an  east  and  west  Une[^should  be  the  boundary 
taken  and  adopted  by  the  State,  to  the  exclu- 
sion of  all  others,  I  should  most  certainly 
oppose  it.  I  favor  the  adoption  of  the  hue 
prescribed  by  the  Enabling  Act,  because  I 
feel  it  to  be  necessary  under  the  circumstan- 
ces. The  gentlemen  from  Winona  (Mr,  Wil- 
son) a  member  of  the  committee  on  Bounda- 
ries, stated  here,  if  I  understood  him  correctly, 
that  we  could  come  into  the  Union  just  as 
well  by  adopting  boundaries  different  from 
those  prescribed  by  Congress,  as  we  can  by 
adopting  that  prescribed  line.  But  it  seems 
to  me  that  any  person,  with  half  an  eye, 
should  see  the  utter  fallacy  of  such  a  state- 
ment. It  is  useless  to  disguise  the  fact  that 
we  are  sitting  here  under  peculiar  circumstan- 
ces. It  seems  to  me  that  it  is  useless  to  dis- 
guise the  fact  that  a  strict  compliance  with 
the  Enabling  Act,  in  all  its  provisions,  is  in- 
dispensable to  the  early  admission  of  Minne- 
sota into  the  Union  as  an  independent  State. 
Gentlemen  may  talk  as  much  as  they  please 
to  the  contpiry,  still  I  apprehend  that  they 
cannot  close  their  eyes  to  the  facts  I  have 
mentioned.  And  it  has  been  admitted  here 
over  and  over  again,  that  the  facts  I  have  sta- 
ted are  true,  and  as  a  necessary  consequence, 
that  there  was  but  one  course  for  us  to  pur- 
sue. It  has  been  urged  so  strongly  that  we 
should  proceed  solely  under  the  Enabling  Act, 
and  shovdd  have  nothing  whatever  Ufido  with 


the  act  passed  by  the  Territorial  Legislature, 
that  a  simple  proposition  to  obtain  a  certified 
copy  of  that  act,  was  voted  down  by  a  large 
majority,  because  it  was  considered  a  matter 
of  pollution,  and  would  contaminate  all  the 
proceedings  of  the  Convention  and  would  ex- 
clude us  from  admission  into  the  Union  as  a 
State.  And  this  was  owing  to  the  fact,  which 
is  notorious,  and  known  all  over  the  country, 
that  this  Convention  is  divided ;  that  the 
Democrats  have  abstracted  themselves  from 
the  rest  of  the  Convention  and  are  now  sitting 
in  the  other  end  of  the  Capitol ;  and  it  was 
supposed  at  the  time,  and  has  been  ever  since 
— and  it  is  useless  to  deny  it — that  Congress, 
being  Democratic,  would  not  be  more  favor- 
able than  it  would  be  obliged  to  be,  towards 
the  actions  of  this  Convention,  Gentlemen 
say  we  have  no  right  to  believe  that.  All  the 
world  beside  believe  differently,  and  why 
should  gentlemen  say  that  this  little  body  of 
delegates  should  believe  differently,  when  all 
the  world  know  and  believe  what  I  have'  sta- 
ted to  be  truth  ? 

Now  my  constituents,  upon  this  question 
as  an  independent  question,  are  somewhat  di- 
vided ;  a  portion  of  them,  I  have  no  doubt, 
would  be  in  favor  of  an  East  and  West  line, 
and  a  portion  of  them  in  favor  of  a  North  and 
South  line.  But,  under  the  circumstances, 
Congress,  having  prescribed  a  North  and  South 
line,  they  feel  it  important  those  boundaries 
should  be  accepted  by  this  Convention  and  by 
the  State,  in  order  that  we  may  not  be  de- 
layed in  our  admission  into  the  Uuion.  That 
seems  to  me  to  be  a  sensible  view  of  the 
question.  Although  other  gentlemen  have 
expressed  a  different  view,  I  have  not,  and  I 
have  no  doubt  that  if  this  Convention  should 
go  on  and  incorporate  into  the  Constitution 
an  article  adopting  different  boundaries  than 
those  prescribed  by  Congress,  that  Congress 
would  not  admit  us,  and  gentlemen  all  along 
have  acted  consistently  with  that  idea,  and  it 
is  only  upon  this  subject  of  boundaries  that 
they  have  ever  differed  from  me  in  regard  to 
the  course  we  ought  to  pursue  under  the  cir- 
cumstances. In  every  other  respect  they 
have  been  very  careful  indeed  not  to  place 
this  Convention  in  an  attitude  of  opposition  to 
the  general  government,  because  they  have 
appreciated  the  difficulties  which  surround  us. 
They  very  well  understood  the  peculiar  cir- 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Tcesdat,  Acgust  11. 


429 


cumstances  under  which  we  were  sitting,  and 
know  the  obstacles  which  might  be  thrown 
in  our  wav,  by  this  hne  of  policy,  to  prevent 
or  retard  ovu:  admission  ifito  the  Union.  That 
has  been  very  well  vmderstood  all  along,  and 
it  is  useless  at  the  present  time  for  us  to  wince 
this  question  out  of  sight. 

Well,  it  was  under  the  influence  of  those 
circumstances  and  considerations,  that  I  fa- 
vored the  acceptance  of  the  boundaries  pre- 
scribed by  Congress,  by  incorporating  them 
into  the  Constitution.  But  now  there  is  a 
proposition  brought  before  us,  somewhat  dif- 
ferent from  that.  If  I  imderstand  it,  it  is  like 
this — not  that  we  shall  reconsider  what  we 
have  done  and  adopt  boundaries  different  firom 
those  we  have  already  adopted  and  incorpo- 
rated into  the  Constitution,  but  that  a  request 
shall  be  made  to  Congress,  if  the  people  de- 
sire it,  for  a  change  in  such  boundaries.  Now, 
so  far  as  I  can  see,  that  is  a  very  reasonable 
and  proper  thing,  and  I  do  not  see  any  neces- 
sity for  any  great  excitement  in  regard  to  it. 
It  is  simply  a  respectful  petition  or  memorial. 
We  have  already  incorporated  into  the  Con- 
stitution an  article  accepting  the  boundaries 
prescribed  by  Congress.  And  now  it  is  pro- 
posed to  accompany  that  acceptance,  with  a 
simple  and  polite  request  to  Congress  to  change 
those  boundaries  in  obedience  with  the  ex- 
pressed wishes  of  the  people  of  Minnesota 
manifested  through  the  ballot-boxes.  I  can- 
not see  that  a  proposition  of  that  kind  would 
be  likely  to  embarrass  the  admission  of  Min- 
nesota in  the  least.  Congress  can  take  no 
exception  whatever  to  a  request  of  that  re- 
spectful kind.  Can  she?  Where  is  the 
ground  of  exception  to  it  ?  I  am  willing  to 
trust  this  matter  to  the  people,  and  if  they 
desire  other  limits  and  other  boundaries  than 
those  proposed  by  Congress,  I  am  perfectly 
willing  that  they  should  have  them.  I  appre- 
hend that  a  great  majority  would  not  be  in 
favor  of  any  such  course,  if  it  were  going  to 
embarrass  the  admission  of  our  State  with  the 
Union.     But  it  will  not ;  it  cannot. 

Now  let  the  question  go  out  to  the  people, 
and  let  them  vote  upon  it.  I  understand  that 
there  is  no  representative  here  from  above  the 
forty-sixth  degree  of  latitude  ;  and,  therefore, 
nobody  is  to  be  excluded  that  is  represented 
in  this  Convention.  No  harm  is  to  be  done. 
If  it  were  to  cut  off  a  portion  of  the  Territo- 


rial representatives  here,  a  different  question 
would  be  presented.  But  I  understand  that 
nothing  of  that  kind  is  proposed  by  this  pro- 
position. And  then  all  agree,  if  it  is  to  go  to 
the  people  at  all,  it  should  go  in  the  shape  pro- 
posed by  the  original  resolution,  and  not  as 
proposed  by  the  substitute  of  the  gentleman 
from  Dakota,  (Mr.  Foster,)  for  that  would 
evidently  defeat  the  whole  object  in  view. 
Nothing  could  be  done  under  that,  and  no 
definite  line  could  be  prescribed ;  and  such 
confusion  would  result  fix>m  it  that  it  would 
be  useless.  A  definite  proposition,  politely 
asking  Congress  to  change  the  boimdaries 
can  do  no  harm ;  and  it  is  a  simple  matter  of 
justice  to  the  people  that  they  should  be  per- 
mitted to  make  such  request  if  they  desire. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  The  gentleman  who 
has  just  taken  his  seat,  represents  that  there 
is  no  one  here  from  a  portion  of  the  Territory 
which  is  proposed,  by  this  resolution,  to  be 
cut  off  from  the  State.  There  is  a  represen- 
tative in  this  body  from  such  portion  of  the 
Territory — the  gentleman  from  Morrison  coun- 
ty, (Mr.  Ateb.)  He  is  not  in  his  seat  to-day, 
and  it  is  unfortunate  that  those  portions  of  the 
Territory  which  are  mostly  without  the  line 
are  unrepresented  here.  We  should  not  take 
undue  advantage  of  their  misfortunes.  This 
is  a  question,  which  not  only  involves  the 
plausible  argument  of  submitting  this  to  the 
people,  but  it  involves  many  other  and  serious 
questions  which  should  be  well  considered 
before  we  take  final  action  upon  it.  I  am  not 
prepared  to  give  a  final  vote  upon  it  to-day, 
but  I  am  willing  and  glad  to  hear  gentlemen 
discuss  it.  I  know  the  views  of  my  constit- 
uents upon  this  matter,  and  I  know  my  own 
views,  and  I  am  decidedly  and  positively  in 
favor  of  a  north  and  south  line  ;  and  I  think 
that  when  I  say  that,  I  am  also  expressing  the 
sentiments  of  a  large  majority  of  my  constit- 
uents. The  question  is  simply  this :  do  we 
not,  in  introducing  and  debating  this  proposi- 
tion in  this  Convention,  throw  ourselves  at 
sea,  and  back  upon  the  principles  of  squatter 
sovereignty,  and,  in  fact,  discard  the  Enabling 
Act  ?  I  wish  gentlemen  to  discuss  this  mat- 
ter and  make  it  plain.  We  may  say,  and 
truly,  that  this  is  only  a  proviso;  that  we 
have  accepted  the  Enabling  Act,  and  do  ac- 
cept it  now ;  but  how  ?  Upon  conditions,  say 
gentl^nen.    Does  that  assert,  at  least  by  im- 


430 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Tuesday,  August  11. 


plication,  that  we  do  not  consider  the  Ena- 
bling Act  binding  ?  And  will  not  that  throw 
us  at  sea  again  ;  and  does  it  not  say,  that  not- 
withstanding the  Enabling  Act,  we  have  a 
right  to  do  just  as  we  please  ?  I  understand 
this  Convention  to  be  organized  under  the 
Enabling  Act ;  that  it  has  claimed  its  organ- 
ization from  the  beginning  up  to  this  time,  un- 
der the  Enabling  Act;  and  that  we  hold  our 
seats  here  by  virtue  of  that  Act.  Now  what 
■  do  we  do  by  this  proposition  ?  We  submit  a 
question  to  the  people,  who  are  not  within  the 
limits  of  the  proposed  State,  because  we  dis- 
card the  Enabhng  Act,  and  go  out  of  the  re- 
cord and  make  a  provision  for  people  whom 
we  do  not  represent,  and  who,  as  has  been 
asserted  upon  this  floor,  have  no  representa- 
tion here — that  is  the  Pembina  portion  of  our 
Territory.  If  we  depart  from  the  Enabling 
Act,  we  submit  the  question  to  the  whole  Ter- 
ritory ;  to  the  people  living  west  of  the  line 
of  the  proposed  State.  And  do  we  not  by 
that  very  act  discard  the  Enabling  Act?  We 
may  put  it  in  as  plausible  language  as  we 
please,  but  still  do  we  not  discard  it  ?  Not- 
withstanding the  Enabling  Act,  which  we  pro- 
fess to  act  under  here ;  by  virtue  of  which 
we  hold  our  seats ;  and  by  virtue  of  which 
we  have  said  that  certain  portions  of  our  Ter- 
ritory shall  not  be  represented  here ;  not- 
withstanding that,  I  say,  we  propose  to  legis- 
late for  a  Territory  without  our  limits  and 
without  our  jurisdiction.  Is  not  that  so? 
Who  represents  the  Territory  without  the 
proposed  limits,  in  this  body?  Gentlemen 
may  say  that  there  are  but  few  inhabitants 
there.  That  is  true.  But  if  there  were  but 
a  hundred  men,  their  voice  should  be  heard. 
We  cannot  act  for  them.  This  resolution  pro- 
poses that  the  people  of  the  whole  Territory 
shall  vote  upon  the  resolution.     Am  I  right  ? 

Mr.  OOGGSWELL.  Will  the  Chair  read 
the  resolution  for  the  gentleman's  benefit. 

The  resolution  was  again  read. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  It  submits  the  ques- 
tion to  the  people  of  this  Territory.  The  Ter- 
ritory is  organized  under  the  Organic  Act. 
We  must  have  an  election  west  of  the  line  of 
the  proposed  State.  Now  who  do  we  repre- 
sent here?  Do  not  we  represent  only  the 
people  within  the  limits  of  the  proposed  State  ? 
and  have  we  not  asserted  it  as  a  fundamental 
position,  that  nobody  has  a  right  to  bo  repre- 


sented here,  who  do  not  reside  within  the 
limits  of  the  proposed  State  ?  Then  why  go 
beyond  our  jurisdiction  ?  I  ask  this  question 
in  all  good  faith.  Because  I  see  \n  this  thing 
not  only  a  departure  from  the  Enablmg  Act 
itself,  but  I  see  breakers  ahead  ;  I  see  the 
whole  thing  fraught  with  danger. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  I  suppose  the  first 
part  of  that  resolution  might  be  worded  a  lit- 
tle dififerently.  It  was  the  intention  to  have 
the  resolution  so  as  to  submit  it  to  the  legal 
and  qualified  voters  residing  within  the  limits 
of  the  proposed  State.  And  if  that  is  the 
only  objection  the  gentleman  has,  that  can 
easily  be  obviated. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  But  there  is  another 
and  greater  objection.  There  is  a  large  portion 
of  our  territory  lying  west  of  us,  as  large  as 
that  portion  which  we  represent,  which  we 
have  no  business  to  act  for.  Now  by  what  au- 
thority do  we  hold  our  seats  here  ?  Under  the 
authority  of  the  Enabling  Act,  and  no  other 
authority  whatever.  We  were  not  elected  by 
virtue  of  the  authority  of  squatter  sovereignty. 
I  was  elected  under  that  act  and  you  were 
elected  under  it,  and  it  is  the  charter  by  which 
we  hold  our  seats,  and  the  moment  we  depart 
from  it,  I  believe  tve  have  no  right  in  this 
Convention.  Congress  said  we  should  elect 
delegates  so  and  so.  That  was  done.  We 
assembled  here  under  that  act,  and  the  mo- 
ment we  depart  from  it  we  become  a  Conven- 
tion not  elected  under  the  Enabling  Act,  but 
by  our  own  act  we  become  a  Convention  elect- 
ed under  the  principles  of  squatter  sovereign- 
ty. If  then  we  can  amend  the  boundaries 
of  the  State  as  proposed  by  Congress,  then 
we  have  the  right  to  fix  the  boundaries  of  a 
State  which  we  do  not  represent,  for  we  have 
no  representation  from  that  portion  of  our 
Territory  which  is  included  in  that  resolution, 
and  which  lies  west  of  the  limits  of  the  pro- 
posed State,  and  which  we  know  we  have 
no  right  to  legislate  for.  Then  how  can  we 
give  to  the  people  within  the  hmits  of  the  pro- 
proposed  State  the  right  to  say  that  a  certain 
portion  of  our  Territory  lying  without  those 
hmits  shall  be  a  part  of  our  State.  Has  it 
not  been  urged,  that  the  validity  of  our  or- 
ganization is  based  in  part  upon  the  fact  that 
that  part  of  our  Territory,  not  included  with- 
in the  limits  of  the  proposed  State  was  not 
and  should  not  be  represented  here?    Wc 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Tuesday,  August  11. 


431 


have  held  that  position,  and  why  ?  Because 
we  hold  seats  under  the  Enabling  Act.  Now 
if  we  change  it,  we  run  upon  a  dangerous 
rock,  because  we  thereby  profess  to  represent 
another  portion  of  our  Territory  without  the 
limits  of  the  proposed  State,  which  is  as  large 
as  our  own,  and  which  we  have  said  should 
not  be  represented  here.  Who  in  this  Con- 
vention has  said  tliat  anybody  should  repre- 
sent, in  this  Convention,  a  portion  of  Terri- 
tory outside  the  limits  of  the  proposed  State  ? 
But  you  depart  from  that  principle  in  submit- 
ting a  proposition  for  the  benefit  of  that  por- 
tion of  teiTitory.  Do  not  we  thereby  say 
that  that  territory  shall  be  represented,  and 
that  all  of  our  opposition  to  the  admission  of 
the  Pembina  members  was  without  founda- 
tion ?  I  see  danger  in  such  a  course.  If 
gentlemen  can  disabuse  my  mind  I  would  like 
to  have  them  do  it,  and  before  they  force  me 
to  vote  upon  this  resolution,  I  hope  they  will 
clear  up  these  difiBculties,  so  that  we  may  be 
placed  in  a  position  that  we  can  help  these 
gentlemen  honorably  and  conscientiously,  for 
we  have  all  a  desire  to  do  so,  if  we  can,  with- 
out destroying  our  own  organization,  and 
abandoning  the  authority  under  which  we 
act.  Disabuse  my  mind  of  these  things,  and 
there  are  no  gentlemen  whom  I  would  sustain 
more  cordially  than  the  Representatives  who 
stand  upon  this  floor  honorably  striving  to 
get  an  East  and  "West  line.  I  differ  with 
them,  but  if  this  question  can  be  submitted 
without  sacrificing  our  position,  I  vrill  vote 
with  them. 

Mr.  BALCOMBE.  Mr.  Cuaibmas  :  I  do 
not  wish  to  discuss  the  merits  of  this  ques' 
tion,  as  to  the  difference  between  an  East  and 
West  line  of  division  and  a  North  and  South 
line  of  division — sis  to  which  would  be  the 
best,  provided  we  might  have  our  choice. — 
This  is  not  the  place  nor  the  time  to  discuss 
that  question.  That  question  has  been  dis- 
cussed somewhat  at  length  before  the  people 
heretofore ;  and  if  the  proposition,  which  the 
gentleman  from  Nicollet,  \[Mr.  Davis],  has 
offered  should  be  adopted  and  sent  forth  for 
the  people  to  vot«  for  or  against,  then  will  be 
the  time  to  discuss  this  question. 

It  is  not  necessary  for  me  to  tell  this  Con- 
vention, nor  is  it  necessary  for  me  to  notify 
the  people  abroad  throughout  the  Territory, 
that  I  am  in  favor  of  an  East  and  West  line. 


This  is  well  known.     The  Chairman  of  this 
Committee  well  knows,  that  I  expressed  an 
opinion  in  favor  of  this  division  line  two  years 
ago  in  the  other  Hall ;   that  I  have  done 
the  same  thing   since   in  public    meetings, 
frequently  declaring  myself  in  fiivor  of  an 
East  and  West  line  of  division,  and  I  still  re- 
main in  favor  of  such  a  division.     I  have  not 
thought  it  necessary  to  demonstrate  that  I 
was  a  man  of  wisdom  by  changing  my  opin- 
ion on  this  subject.     It  is  said  by  high  author- 
ity, that  wise  men  change  sometimes,  but  fools 
never.  Perhaps,  I  do  not  know,  but  that  I  shall 
liave  to  remain  in  the  catalogue  of  fools,  for 
not  deeming  it  necessary  to  indulge  in  some 
change  of  opinion  once  a  year,  or  once  in  six 
months  or  three  months,  for    the  sake  of 
showing  myself  to  be  a  wise  man.     If  I  were 
brought  to  this  test,  I  question  very  much 
whether  I  should  be  able  to  make  much  show 
of  wisdom.     I  am  not  made  of  that  kind  of 
material,  sir.    I  believe,  that  when  a  man  has 
once  taken  a  position  in  the  belief  that  it  is 
right,  he  should  stand  to  it,  through  thick  and 
thin,  under  all  circumstances,  whether  adverse 
or  prosperous.    Never,  sir,  for  the  sake  of 
poUtical  preferment,  for  the  sake  of  proving 
myself  a  wise  man,  for  the  sake  of  accom- 
plishing an  election  to  a  Constitutional  Con- 
vention, or  to  the  Senate  of  the  United  States, 
I  can  change  my  position  on  no  question  what- 
ever.    If,  sir,  I  cannot  attain  to  these  very 
desirable  and  much  sought  for  positions,  with- 
out changing  front  every  three  months,  or 
every  six  months,  I  shaU  never  attain  to  them. 
As  to  the  proposition  before  the  Conven- 
tion, I  cannot  see  the  least  harm,  Mr.  Chair- 
MAX,  in  submitting  this  as  a  separate  proposi- 
tion to  the  people,     I  cannot  see  that  we 
should  in  any  way  vitiate  any  action  of  the 
Convention  by  so  doing.     We  have  already 
accepted  the  boimdary  as  proposed  by  Con- 
gress.    We  then,  by  presenting  this  prop- 
osition to  the  people,  add  a  proviso — not  a 
proviso  exactly,  but  a  memorial — in  case  a 
majority  of  the  people  sanction  it,  we  add  a 
memorial  to  the  Constitution,  asking  Congress 
to  volimtarily  change  our  boundary,  if  they 
see  fit  to  do  so ;  and  if  not,  we  travel  on  as 
having  accepted  the  boundary  proposed  in 
the  Enabling  Act.     They  may  give  us  either 
boundary,  and  it  is  accepted  and  reliable,  and 
the  coimtry  and  all  the  operations  of  govern- 


432 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Tuesday,  August  11. 


ment  may  proceed  upon  it  as  the  accepted 
and  established  boundary. 

But  something  has  been  said  about  "  Squat- 
ter Sovereignty."  The  same  kind  of  talk  has 
heretofore  been  thrown  out  against  those  mem- 
bers of  the  Republican  party  who  have  seen 
fit  to  favor  this  East  and  "West  line — that  we 
were  thereby  favoring  the  doctrine  of  Squat- 
ter Sovereignty,  and  leaving  the  doctrine  of 
the  Republican  party.  Now  I  cannot  see  it 
in  that  light,  nor  never  could. 

When  a  State  knocks  for  admission  into 
the  Union,  it  is  a  matter  of  interest  to  every 
State  to  know  upon  what  principle  the  new 
State  is  to  be  admitted.  It  is  for  them  to  see 
that  the  State  is  not  admitted  upon  any  prin- 
ciple which  will  have  a  bad  effect.  It  is  the 
right  of  Congress  to  reject  any  State  that  may 
knock  for  admission,  with  a  Constitution 
sanctioning  an  evil  within  her  limits,  calcula- 
ted to  have  an  injurious  effect  on  every  other 
State  in  the  Union.  I  say  it  is  the  right  of 
Congress  to  reject  such  a  State.  It  is  the  po- 
sition of  the  Republican  party,  that  a  State 
presenting  itself  with  a  Constitution  sanction- 
ing slavery,  shall  not  be  admitted  into  the 
Union,  ■  "Why  ?  Such  a  State  shall  not  be 
admitted,  because  it  is  the  belief  of  the  Re- 
publican party,  that  the  institution  of  slavery 
is  an  evil  which  should  not  be  extended.  It 
is  an  evil  continually,  in  a  social  fjs  well  as  a 
pecuniary  and  political  point  of  view  in  every 
State  in  the  Union — where  it  exists,  and  where 
it  does  not  exist — and  it  is  every  way  injuri- 
ous to  every  State  in  the  Union,  to  admit  a 
new  State  with  slavery ;  and  therefore  Con- 
gress has  the  right  to  reject  a  State  with  such 
an  evil  in  their  midst.  That  is  our  doc- 
trine. 

But  this  question  of  boundary  is  more  a 
local  question.  It  cannot  affect  other  States. 
It  cannot  affect  injuriously  the  society  of  any 
other  State.  It  cannot  injuriously  affect  any 
other  State  either  pecuniarily  or  politically. 
It  is  a  question  of  mere  local  concern  and 
nothing  more.  It  is  a  matter  of  interest  to 
the  people  within  these  limits,  and  to  nobody 
else ;  a  matter  which  Congress  cares  nothing 
about  one  way  or  another.  What  difference 
does  it  make  to  other  States  what  our  boun- 
dary shall  be,  whether  it  bo  an  East  and 
West,  or  a  North  and  South  division  line  that 
we  shall  adopt?    Does  it  make  any  differ- 


ence in  the  pecuniary  or  the  social  interests 
of  any  other  State  ?  Not  at  all.  Inasmuch 
then,  as  this  matter  is  a  question  purely  local, 
interesting  to  the  people  of  this  Territory,  and 
to  no  other  people.  Congress  should  pay 
some  attention  to  the  memorial  of  the  people 
within  those  limits. 

And  I  say  the  people  have  a  right  to  make 
this  memorial.  They  do  not  thereby  assume 
to  dictate  to  Congress.  They  do  not  thereby 
assume  to  set  up  a  State  government  for 
themselves,  contrary  to  the  wish  and  the  au- 
thority of  Congress.  They  simply  make  a 
request  of  Congress,  and  Congress  can  grant 
it  or  not,  as  that  body  shall  see  fit.  Is  there 
any  thing  anti-Republican  in  that  ?  Any  thing 
wrong  in  it?  Any  thing  discreditable  to 
Congress  ?  If  there  is,  Mr.  Chaieman,  I  can- 
not see  it. 

Mr.  Chairman  ;  I  look  upon  this  as  a  mere 
expression  of  the  wish  of  the  people.  We 
We  might,  perhaps  get  it  in  some  other  way, 
but  this  is  thought  to  be  the  very  best  man- 
ner in  which  the  case  can  be  presented — a 
strong,  firm  manner,  which  cannot  be  got 
round  easily. 

And  what  objection  can  Congress  have  to 
our  sending  up  a  memorial  on  this  subject  ? 
For  it  is  nothing  more  nor  less  than  a  memo- 
rial. Will  that  body  think  we  are  interfering 
with  their  rights  to  govern  this  Territory  ? 
Not  a  bit  of  it.  Is  the  Enabling  Act  an  act 
which  that  body  cannot  reverse  if  they  should 
see  fit?  Cannot  that  body  so  far  change 
their  former  act  as  to  admit  us  with  an  East 
and  West  line?  Is  there  any  thing  that  for- 
bids it  ?  If  they  have  passed  an  Enabling 
Act,  is  that  a  finality  ?  Not  at  all.  Have 
they  not  changed  State  boundaries  before,  at 
the  ^request  of  the  people  ?  Certainly  they 
have.  And  cannot  that  body  do  the  same 
thing  again  ?  Certainly  they  can.  Because 
Mr.  Chairman,  requests  of  this  kind  have 
been  made  heretofore  by  Territories,  and 
such  requests  have  been  granted  in  some  in- 
stances, and  refused  in  others. 

But  the  gentleman  who  was  last  upon  the 
floor  has  brought  up  an  objection  on  account 
of  a  few  voters  who  are  living  outside  of  the 
proposed  State  limits,  and  within  the  limits 
proposed  by  the  Enabling  Act  of  Congress, 
Now,  Mr.  Chairman  :  I  am  perfectly  willing 
those  voters  should  be  allowed  to  vote  on  this 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Tuesday,  August  11. 


483 


question.  I  am  wiling  upon  the  general  prin- 
ciple of  submitting  this  Constitution  to  the 
people.  If  it  should  be  submitted  to  those 
living  within  the  limits  of  the  proposed  State, 
why  should  not  those  contemplated  in  the 
EnabUng  Act,  but  living  still  outside  of  the 
proposed  limits,  have  an  opportunity  of  ex- 
pressing themselves  ?  I  have  been^informed, 
that  those  people  living  outside  are  in  favor  of 
an  east  and  west  division.  Now  if  this  should 
be  so,  and  a  majority  of  the  voters  within  the 
proposed  limits  should  be  in  favor  of  an  east 
and  west  division,  then  I  say,  would  it  not  be 
the  moral  duty  of  Congress  to  respect  their 
memorial?  Our  vote  would  not  bind  Con- 
gress ;  but  the  moral  duty  to  hear  the  voice  of 
the  people,  most  assmredly  would. 

In  passing  the  Enabling  Act,  Congress  un- 
doubtedly supposed  they  were  passing  an  act 
in  accordance  with  the  wishes  of  a  majority 
of  the  people.  Why  ?  Simply  because  the 
delegate  from  the  Territory  so  represented  the 
case.  That  delegate,  emanating  from  Saint 
Paul,  and  surrounded  entirely  by  men  and 
interests  in  favor  of  a  north  and  south  boun- 
dary line,  undoubtedly  thought  a  majority  of 
the  people  were  in  favor  of  a  north  and  south 
line.  What  could  Congress  do,  other  than  to 
form  a  judgment  upon  those  representations, 
and  act  in  accordance  with  the  wishes  of  the 
people  as  expressed  through  their  delegate  ? 
There  was  no  other  medium  trhough  which 
the  people  attempted  to  express  their  wishes. 
Now  we  propose  another  medium.  Now  we 
propose,  by  an  actual  vote  of  the  people,  to 
show  that  our  delegate  in  Congress  did  not 
correctly  represent  the  wishes  of  the  people 
at  that  time.  And  after  a  fair  vote  shall  have 
been  taken,  and  it  shall  have  been  proved 
that  the  delegate  did  not  fairly  represent  the 
people,  would  it  be^anything  inconsistent  on 
the  part  of  Congress  to  change  their  act  and 
give  us  an  east  and  west  line?  Congress  ac- 
ted at  first  upon  the  best  information  they 
had  as  to  what  was  the  wish  of  the  people. 
But  now,  if  a  majority  should  say  they  are 
in  favor  of  an  east  and  west  line,  they  would 
have  a  sure  guide  to  go  by,  in  fact  the  only 
sure  guide  they  could  possibly  have,  as  to 
what  were  the  wishes  of  the  majority ;  and 
there  could  be  nothing  inconsistent  in  granting 
it,  but  it  would  be  right  and  proper  for  them 
so  to  do,  and  I  believe  they  would  do  so.  I 
55 


believe  that  Congress  would  not  hesitate  to 
give  us  the  division  line  we  might  ask  for,  and 
that  without  further  question. 

Mr.  DAVIS.  Mr.  Chaibman  :  I  do  not 
propose  to  make  another  speech  upon  this 
question.  I  do  not  propose  now  to  discuss 
the  merits  or  demerits  of  either  side  of  the 
question.  I  wish  merely  to  disabuse  the 
minds  of  certain  gentlemen  who  suppose  the 
Capitol  removal  has  anything  to  do  with  this 
question.  Now  I  Uve  right  in  the  vicinity  of 
St.  Peter,  at  Traverse  des  Sioux,  whose  inter- 
ests are  identical  with  those  of  St.  Peter,  and 
I  know  the  question  of  the  seat  of  govern- 
ment does  not  enter  into  this  matter  in  the 
least.  I  know  that  our  citizens  there  never 
expect  to  get  the  Capitol  in  St.  Peter,  or  upon 
the  school  section,  as  provided  last  winter. 
They  did,  at  one  time,  expect  the  Capitol  to 
be  located  at  St.  Peter ;  but  since  ex-Gover- 
nor Gorman,  the  father  of  the  project,  and 
the  man  who  procured  the  passage  of  the  biU, 
deserted  them  and  turned  his  back  upon  them, 
they  have  not  expected  to  get  the  seat  of 
government  there.  If  gentlemen  will  just 
look  at  their  maps,  they  will  see  that  St.  Pe- 
ter is  not  within  a  hundred  miles  of  the  cen- 
tre of  the  proposed  State,  The  Capitol,  in 
my  opinion,  should  be  near  the  centre ;  and 
St.  Peter  would  be  about  as  near  the  centre, 
if  the  State  were  divided  by  the  line  proposed 
in  the  Enabling  Act,  as  if  it  were  divided  by 
the  proposed  east  and  west  line. 

But  sir,  I  will  say,  that  the  following'"are 
some  of  the  reasons  which  actuate  these  peo- 
ple, and  lead  them  to  suppose,  that  an  east 
and  west  line  is  for  their  benefit,  as  well  as 
for  the  benefit  of  the  people  at  large — not 
merely  for  the  benefit  and  advantage  of  the 
people  of  the  new  State,  but  for  those  of  the 
Territory  to  be  left  out  and  I  will  read  a 
newspaper  extract : 

"Maine  has  thirty,  and  Ohio  thirty-nine  thou- 
sand square  miles.  Maine  had  a  population  of  one 
hundred  thousand,  before  Ohio  began  to  be  settled. 
Amd  now,  after  a  lapse  of  a  little  more  than  half  a 
century,  we  have  the  following  result  : 

KAINE. 

Population, 683,169 

Acres  of  land  improved, 2,039,596 

Total  valuation  of  property, |122,777,521 

Miles  of  Railroad, 608 

OHIO. 

Population, 1,880,427 

Acres  of  land  improved, 9,851,493 

Total  value  of  property, $504,756,120 

Miles  of  Railroad, 8,140 


434 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Tuesday,  August  11. 


"By  a  comparison  of  these  statistics,  it  will  be 
seen  that  the  population  is  as  four  to  one — the 
improved  lands  as  five  to  one — the  miles  of  railroad 
as  six  to  one — and  the  aggregate  wealth  of  Ohio 
equal  to  that  of  five  just  such  States  as  that  of 
Maine!  An  east  and  west  line  would  give  us  a 
State  like  Ohio ;  opulent  in  agriculture,  the  '  grand 
'  art,  rendering  mankind  happy,  wealthy,  and  pow- 
'erful.'  " 

These,  Mr.  Chaieman,  amongst  others,  are 
some  of  the  reasons  why  a  portion  of  those  I 
have  the  honor  to  represent  here,  prefer  an 
east  and  west  to  a  north  and  south  line.  And 
I  hope,  sir,  this  Capital  removal  question  will 
not  be  lugged  into  this  debate  again.  For  one, 
I  am  heartily  sick  of  it. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  Mr.  Chairman:  I  do  not 
propose  to  discuss  this  subject.  I  do  not 
wish  to  occupy  time  but  to  notice  one  or  two 
things.  The  only  argument  against  this  reso- 
lution, which  has  had  the  appearance  of  argu- 
ment, is  that  raised  by  the  gentleman  from 
Scott  county,  (Mr.  Galbkaith,)  and  that  is, 
that  having  our  seats  here  in  this  Convention 
by  virtue  of  the  Enabling  Act,  he  holds  that, 
if  we  pass  this  resolution  we  place  ourselves 
in  an  inconsistent  position,  by  attempting  to 
legislate  for  a  people  outside  of  the  proposed 
limits.  Now,  it  does  not  appear  to  my  mind, 
that  we  necessarily  place  ourselves  in  that 
position.  This  proposition  proposes  to  leave 
a  question  to  be  decided  by  a  vote  of  the  peo- 
ple of  the  Territory ;  it  proposes  to  leave  it  to 
the  people  of  the  proposed  State 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  Tsuppose  that  alter- 
ation could  be  made  by  consent.  No  objec- 
tion could  be  made,  certainly. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  In  that  event,  Mr.  Chaib- 
MAN,  I  cannot  myself  discover  those  breakers 
ahead,  which  the  gentleman  from  Scott  thinks 
he  sees.  What  is  the  proposition  ?  Simply 
to  get  an  expression  of  the  voters  of  the  pro- 
posed State,  as  to  their  choice  between  two 
boundaries;  whether  they  prefer  that  pro- 
posed by  Congress,  or  an  east  and  west  line. 
It  is  not  saying  to  Congress,  that  we  must 
come  in  with  an  east  and  west  line,  or  none. 
As  the  gentleman  from  Olmsted  has  said, 
we  have  already  accepted  another  line.  But 
at  the  same  time,  we  should  prefer  a  different 
line ;  and  if  it  should  meet  the  approbation  of 
Congress  to  make  a  change,  and  run  an  east 
and  west  division  line,  instead  of  the  north 
and  south  line,  what  harm  is  there  in  it? 


There  can  be  no  harm  done,  unless  it  be  to 
that  class  of  people  living  west  of  the  line.  I 
do  not  know  whether  these  people  choose  the 
one  or  the  other.  They  certainly  have  the 
right ;  not  because  we  give  it  to  them,  but 
because  they  possess  it  inherently.  I  caimot 
see  that  it  can  work  any  evil  effect  at  all. 
We  make  the  Enabling  Act  of  Congress  our 
basis  of  action,  and  stand  upon  it ;  but  if  the 
people  of  the  proposed  State  desire  a  different 
line,  there  can  be  no  harm  in  asking  for  it ; 
and  then  it  will  be  for  Congress  to  decide 
whether  injustice  will  be  done  to  those  people 
outside. 

One  word  in  regard  to  the  position  taken 
by  the  gentleman  from  Dakota,  (Mr.  Foster.) 
He  says  his  amendment  should  be  adopted, 
because,  if  we  are  going  to  leave  it  to  the  peo- 
ple, M'e  should  give  them  the  largest  liberty 
as  to  the  choice  of  boundary ;  and  he  urges 
it  as  a  principle.  I  must  confess,  that  when 
I  heard  that  declaration,  I  had  some  appre- 
hensions— remembering  that  I  belonged  to  the 
Republican  party,  and  that  the  gentleman 
from  Dakota,  who  made  the  declaration,  and 
the  gentleman  from  Chisago,  (Mr.  Staxnard,) 
who  endorsed  it,  are  both  members  of  our 
Republican  Central  Committee.  It  occurred 
to  me,  that  upon  this  principle,  we,  as  a  party, 
could  have  neither  organization  nor  concen- 
tration of  action,  but  every  man  would  do 
just  as  he  pleased ;  and  if  that  was  their 
principle  of  action  as  members  of  the  Repub- 
lican party,  I  began  to  think  we  should  have 
to  talk  to  our  Central  Committee. 

Another  thing.  The  gentleman  from  Chi-' 
sago  found  fault,  because  the  east  and  west 
line  would  divide  his  county.  But  now,  the 
north  and  south  line,  which  he  advocates,  di- 
vides the  county  of  Pembina,  and  I  am  in- 
clined to  think  the  people  of  that  region  are 
opposed  to  it ;  and  it  was  but  the  other  day, 
that  both  the  gentleman  from  Chisago  and 
the  gentleman  from  Dakota,  worked  them- 
selves up  into  a  flame  of  zeal  for  the  rights  of 
these  half-breeds,  which,  they  alleged,  were 
going  to  be  interfered  with.  I  commend  these 
things  for  gentlemen  to  reflect  upon. 

The  question  was  now  taken  upon  Mr. 
Foster's  substitute,  and  it  was  rejected. 

Mr.  WATSON.  Mr.  Chairman:  in  con- 
fonnity  with  the  wishes  of  several  members, 
I  offer  the  following  amendment : 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Tcesdat,  August  11. 


485 


Insert,  after  the  word  "  Territory,"  these 
words  :  "  residing  within  the  limits  of  the 
"proposed  State;"  so  that  it  will  read: 
"  There  shall  be  submitted  to  the  qualified 
"  voters  of  the  Territory,  residing  within  the 
"  hmits  of  the  proposed  State,  &c." 

Mr.  LOWE.  Mr.  Chairsiax  :  I  shall  vote 
not  to  exclude  any  portion  of  the  people.  If 
we  must  perform  such  an  act  as  this,  it  strikes 
me  that  we  are  bound  to  allow  all  the  people 
within  the  limits  to  vote.  But  then,  it  seems 
to  me  that  this  proposition  is  the  height  of 
injustice.  We  would  be  reversing  all  our 
action  here  by  the  passage  of  this  resolution. 
It  would  be  stultifying  ourselves  before  the 
world,  by  declaring,  in  effect,  that  we  were 
wrong  in  excluding  the  Pembina  delegation ; 
that  they  ought  to  be  here  to  day,  and  have  a 
right  to  vote  here,  and  we  have  no  right  to 
proceed  without  their  presence.  It  would  be 
declaring,  almost  in  so  many  words,  that  the 
opinion  entertained  here  in  regard  to  the  pro- 
priety of  excluding  those  members  is  entirely 
unjust ;  and  not  only  so,  but  that  the  position 
of  the  Democratic  members  who  have  sepa- 
rated from  us,  is  not  merely  proper,  but  emi- 
nently just. 

Some  gentlemen  have  said  that  if  this  reso- 
lution should  be  rejected,  no  harm  would  be 
done.  But  I  say,  it  would  go  back  to  the 
people  and  anaul  all  the  proceedings  of  this 
Convention.  If  there  ever  was  a  measure 
calculated  to  repudiate  our  own  action,  and 
place  all  our  efforts  here  in  a  light  of  the 
utmost  disgrace  and  disparagement,  it  is 
this. 

For  myself,  Mr.  Chaibmax,  I  disclaim  any 
personal  feeling  in  the  case.  I  know  a  good 
many  of  my  constituents  are  in  favor  of 
remaining  imder  a  Territorial  organization. 
Therefore  with  reference  to  coming  into  the 
Union,  I  need  feel  no  material  anxiety.  But 
I  do  feel  an  interest  in  this  question,  on 
accovmt  of  the  inconsistency  involved.  It 
wiU  place  us,  I  repeat  it,  in  the  attitude  of 
admitting  that  our  decision  in  regard  to  the 
Pembina  delegation  has  been  erroneous,  and 
I  know  very  well  the  proposition  will  be  sus- 
tained in  the  eyes  of  the  world. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  Mr.  Chairman:  I 
understood  the  gentleman  from  Scott  coimty 
to  make  objection  to  the  language  of  the  reso- 
lution, on  the  ground,  that  it  allows  inhabi- 


tants residing  outside  of  the  limits  proposed 
by  the  Enabling  Act,  the  privilege  of  voting. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  I  stated  that  we  had 
no  right,  under  our  organization,  to  do  any 
act  that  was  going  to  be  obligatory  on  those 
residing  outside  of  our  jurisdiction;  and  also, 
that  the  people  can  have  no  right  to  vote  on 
this  proposition,  who  live  outside  of  the 
boundary  proposed. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  Whatever,  Mr.  Chair- 
man, may  have  been  the  object  of  the  gentle- 
man, it  is  evident  that  this  amendment  is 
intended  to  prevent  the  inhabitants  who  Uve 
outside  of  the  limits  mentioned  in  the  Ena- 
bling act  from  voting  on  this  question ;  and 
also,  to  prevent  those  who  hve  out  North — 
and  for  the  purpose  of  allowing  only  those  to 
vote  who  Uve  within  the  limits  proposed  in 
the  resolution. 

Mr.  HUDSON.  Mr.  Chaibjian:  I  pre- 
sume we  are  all  anxious  to  have  this  matter 
settled.  For  myself,  as  there  seems  to  be  a 
good  deal  of  feeling  manifested  on  one  side, 
and  on  the  other  a  strong  desire  that  this 
proposition  should  be  submitted  to  the  people, 
if  it  could  be  submitted  in  any  way  that 
would  not  contradict  what  we  have  already 
done,  in  accepting  the  proposition  of  the 
Enabling  Act,  I  for  one  should  not  object. 
But,  Mr.  Chairman,  I  have  taken  this  ground 
from  the  start,  and  I  mean  to  maintain  it,  if  I 
understand  what  I  am  doing.  Congress  has 
said  to  a  certain  Territory — the  people  of  the 
Territory  of  Minnesota — "You  may  elect 
"  your  delegates  to  a  Constitutional  Conven- 
"  tion,  form  a  Constitution,  and  be  admitted 
"  into  the  Union  as  an  independent  State,  on 
"  conditions."  But  now,  when  we  go  outside 
of  that  Territory — when  we  talk  about  any 
other  line,  or  any  other  set  of  men  than  those 
embraced  within  that  Territory,  we  have  got 
outside  of  the  proposition  of  Congress,  and 
Congress  is  no  longer  bound  by  it.  I  under- 
stand the  case  in  this  way :  If  A  should 
should  offer  B  a  span  of  horses  for  two  hun- 
dred dollars,  and  B  turns  round  and  says  to 
A,  "  You  may  have  my  cattle  for  them,"  he 
virtually  rejects  the  offer,  by  talking  about 
something  else.  Congress  has  said  to  us, 
"  You  may  have  a  State  on  certain  conditions." 
When  we  talk  about  other  Territory  and 
other  conditions,  I  fear  we  are  stepping  out- 
side, so  far  as  to  offer  to  Congress  an  excuse 


43d 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Tuesday,  August  11. 


for  rejecting  us  altogether.  It  has  been 
objected  to  this  proposition,  that  wo  are  now- 
placed  under  peculiar  circumstances,  and  if 
there  could  be  found  any  excuse,  Congress 
might  be  willing  to  avail  themselves  of  it,  and 
reject  us.  This  consideration  has  been  urged, 
it  seems  to  me,  with  good  reason ;  and  I  think 
we  should  be  very  cautious  how  we  proceed 
in  this  matter.  If  I  understand  the  resolu- 
tion, it  reads  to  this  eflFect,  that  if  this  propo- 
sition shall  receive  a  majority  of  all  the  votes 
cast  for  and  against  it,  within  the  Hmits  of  the 
proposed  State — if  a  majority  shall  be  in 
favor  of  an  East  and  West  line,  then  this 
proposition  shall  be  a  part  of  this  Constitu- 
tion. Well,  how  far  we  can  safely  travel  in 
that  direction,  seems  very  doubtful  in  my 
mind ;  and  I  would  like  to  have  the  matter 
laid  over  for  consideration  until  to-morrow. 

Mr.  NORTH.  Mr.  Chairman:  I  was  just 
going  to  move  that  the  committee  rise  and 
report  the  matter  to  the  Convention,  with  a 
recommendation  to  lay  it  upon  the  table.  My 
reasons  for  this  motion  are,  that  there  are  ob- 
jections to  the  proposition  which  it  seems,  it 
cannot  be  now  seen  how  to  remedy  by  amend- 
ment. I  understood,  when  this  was  first 
brought  up,  it  was  to  be  as  a  memorial,  and 
not  as  an  amendment  to  the  Constitution. 
But  it  will  be  seen  by  the  language  of  the 
proposition,  that  if  the  people  vote  in  favor  of 
it,  it  is  to  be  a  change  of  the  Constitution.  I 
am  decidedly  opposed  to  that.  But  if  it  can 
be  changed  so  as  to  make  it  nothing  but  a 
memorial,  I  can  go  for  it.  For  the  ^purpose  of 
having  that  point  better  considered,  I  move — 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  Mr.  Chaieamn:  I 
was  about  to  say,  I  hope  that  motion  will  not 
prevail. 

Mr.  NORTH.  I  withdraw  it  if  the  gentle- 
man wants  to  say  anything. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  It  does  seem  to  me, 
Mr.  Chaibman,  that  we  could  dispose  of  this 
little  amendment  in  a  few  moments,  and  also 
of  the  simple  proposition  of  submitting  this 
question  to  the  people.  H'  there  was  any- 
thing in  it  so  hidden  and  occult,  that  a  man  of 
ordinary  capacity  could  not  understand  it,  I 
could  agree  to  lay  it  over  day  after  day ;  but, 
when  it  is  nothing  but  a  simple  question  as  to 
whether  a  boundary  line  shall  be  submitted  to 
the  people  or  not,  I  think,  sir,  we  ought  to 
have  the  capacity  to  decide  upon  that  at  once. 


As  to  the  language  of  the  proposition,  that 
this  boundary  is  to  become  a  part  of  the  Con- 
stitution when  it  goes  to  Congress,  it  seems 
to  me,  that  it  must  necessarily  be  a  part  of 
the  Constitution,  when  it  shall  be  ratified 
by  the  people.  Of  course,  if  the  people 
ratify  it,  with  the  Constitution,  it  is  a  part 
of  the  Constitution,  and  so  it  must  go  to  Con- 
gress. It  must  go  to  Congress  just  as  that 
proposition  went,  which  was  sent  up  with 
their  Constitution  by  the  people  of  the  State 
of  Wisconsin.  It  cannot  go  in  any  other 
shape,  for  the  reason,  that  it  has  been  ratified 
by  the  people.  If  it  should  ^not  [be  ratified, 
then,  of  course,  it  is  no  part  of  the  Constitu- 
tion ;  otherwise,  it  must  be  a  part  of  the  Con- 
stitution, and  it  can  go  to  Congress  in  no  other 
shape.  I  hope  this  thing  will  be  disposed  of, 
and  let  us  go  to  something  else. 

Mr.  PERKINS.  Mr.  Chairman:  There 
has  bten  something  said  about  the  language 
of  the  proposition  that  I  do  not  understand. 
It  seems  to  have  some  hidden  meaning.  I  do 
not  understand  how  it  is  to  go  before  Congress 
as  a  part  of  the  Constitution. 

Mr.  NORTH.  It  says  so  in  plain  lan- 
guage. 

Mr,  PERKINS.  We  have  ahready  adopted 
into  the  Constitution  an  acceptance  of  the 
north  and  south  line ;  and  this  proposition,  if 
I  imderstand  it,  is  nothing  bnt  a  memorial. 
It  goes  to  Congress  as  a  memorial ;  but,  if  ac- 
cepted by  Congress,  then  it  is  incorporated 
into  the  Constitution,  but  not  otherwise.  If 
that  is  not  the  idea,  then  I  am  opposed  to  it 
in  toto. 

Mr.  NORTH.  It  says  so,  in  so  many  words, 
in  the  first  part  of  the  resolution. 

The  CHAIRMAN  again  read  the  first  part 
of  the  resolution,  as  follows : 

Eesohed,  That  there  shall  be  submitted  to  the 
qualified  voters  of  this  Territory,  at  the  same 
time  this  Constitution  is  submitted  to  them,  for 
their  adoption  or  rejection,  the  following  proposi- 
tion (or  one  substantially  the  same,)  and  if  the 
same  shall  receive  a  majority  of  all  the  votes  cast 
both  for  and  against  it,  then,  the  same  shall  be  a  part 
of  this  Constitution  and  go  with  the  same  to  the 
Congress  of  the  United  States,  to  be  acted  upon 
by  them  as  they  may  see  proper."  ' 
.  Mr.  McCLURE.  I  cannot  vote  for  the 
proposition  as  it  now  stands.  And  I  wish  to 
help  my  fiiends,  because  they  disclaim  any 
idea  of  making  this  a  part  of  the  Constitution. 
I  cannot  for  a  moment  think  that  the  counties 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Tuesday,  August  11. 


437 


I  represent  have  any  interest  in  the  removaj 
of  the  capital.  Nor  indeed  any  railroad  in- 
terest. We  have  either  fortunately  or  unfor- 
tunately been  represented  in  the  Legislature 
by  a  man  who  for  some  years  never  saw  a 
railroad  car  or  railroad  track,  and  conse- 
quently he  has  had  nothing  to  do  with  these 
Uttle  petty  railroad  frauds  at  all.  (Laughter.) 
So  far  as  I  am  concerned,  therefore,  I  am  free 
from  any  of  these  little  influences  which  some 
may  be  controlled  by. 

Now  the  resolution  which  has  been  ofiFered 
by  the  gentleman  from  Nicollet,  (Mr.  Davis,) 
I  could  be  in  favor  of,  could  it  be  amended  a 
little.  I  intend,  at  the  proper  time,  to  offer 
this  amendment,  to  strike  out  the  words  "  then 
"then  the  same  shall  be  a  part  of  this  Con- 
"stution  &c.,"  and  insert  in  heu  thereof  the 
words  "  then  the  same  shall  be  certified  to  the 
"  Congress  of  the  United  States,  as  a  request 
"  to  change  the  boundary  line  of  the  proposed 
"State  accordingly." 

I  understand  that  if  it  is  engrafted  into  the 
Constitution,  as  proposed  by  the  resolution, 
it  goes  up  to  Congress  as  a  part  of  the  Con- 
stitution. I  vmderstand  that  we  have  already 
admitted  by  the  action  of  this  body,  that  we 
liave  accepted  of  and  do  accept  the  boundary 
proposed  by  Congress.  Now  it  seems  to  me 
that  we  ought  not  to  incorporate  into  the  Con- 
stitution a  different  line,  but,  that  if  a  major- 
ity of  the  voters  of  the  proposed  State  should 
vote  in  favor  of  the  bovmdaries  contained  in 
the  resolution,  it  should  go  to  Congress  merely 
as  a  request  that  they  would  change  the  line 
so  as  to  make  it  accord  with  the  wishes  of  the 
people  so  expressed.  I  am  willing  to  go  for 
that,  because  I  know  my  friends  are  really  in- 
terested in  the  matter,  and  that  their  constit- 
uents will  not  be  satisfied  with  less  than  a 
chance  to  vote  in  some  way  upon  the  matter. 
But  I  am  imwilling  to  vote  for  a  proposition 
which  shall  incorporate  it  into  the  Constitution 
as  a  part  and  parcel  thereof. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  misimderstood  the  lan- 
guage of  the  resolution,  and  before  I  can  vote 
for  it,  I  shall  require  that  some  such  amend- 
ment as  that  suggested  by  the  gentleman  from 
Goodhue,  shall  be  adopted. 

Mr.  DAVIS.  I  would  say  to  the  Conven- 
tion that  the  meaning  I  intended  the  res- 
olution to  convey,  was  this,  that  the  proposi- 
tion which  was  to  go  to  Congress,  should  be 


considered  as  a  memorial ;  or  a  request  in 
case  a  majority  of  the  voters  of  the  State 
should  vote  in  favor  of  it.  If  any  gentleman 
will  offer  to  amend  it  in  any  way  that  will 
satisfy  them,  and  still  convey  the  meaning  I 
intended,  I  would  prefer,  as  a  matter  of  course, 
to  see  it  done.  I  am  not  tenacious  as  to  the 
exact  language  used,  only  that  it  gives  t9  the 
people  an  opportunity  to  express  their  views 
upon  the  division  line. 

Mr.  PERKINS.  I  must  say  that  I  have 
not  seen  the  resolution  in  print  imtil  this  mo- 
ment. I  certainly  mistook  its  import,  and 
there  must  be  some  amendment,  such  as  has 
been  suggested,  before  I  can  vote  for  the  res- 
olution. It  is  different  from  what  I  thought 
it  was.  It  makes  the  proposed  change  a  part 
of  the  Constitution.  As  i  heard  it  read,  I 
took  it  to  be  a  mere  memorial  to  Congress  to 
change  the  line,  and  that  if  Congress  should 
see  fit  to  do  so,  then,  and  not  till  then  it  was 
to  be  a  part  of  the  Constitution. 

Mr.  DAVIS.     Such  was  my  intention. 

Mr.  BOLLES.  I  move  that  the  committee 
now  rise.  We  are  involved  in  difficulty  about 
the  matter,  and  we  can  not  vote  for  it  as  it 
now  stands,  although  we  might  if  it  was 
changed  somewhat.  We  can  go  back  into 
Convention,  and  then  refer  it  back  to  the 
mover,  to  make  such  modification  of  it,  as  will 
meet  the  views  which  gentlemen  have  ex- 
pressed. I  will  move  that  the  committee  will 
rise  and  report  the  resolution  back  with  a 
recommendation  that  it  be  referred  back  to 
the  original  mover  of  the  same,  to  report  such 
amendment  to  it  as  he  sees  proper. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to,  and  the  com- 
mittee rose  and  reported  back  the  resolution 
with  the  recommendation  of  the  committee. 

The  recommendation  of  the  committee  was 
then  concmred  in,  and  the  resolution  was 
handed  to  the  mover  (Mr.  Davis). 

And  then,  on  motion  of  Mr.  KING  (at  twelve 
o'clock  and  fifteen  minutes)  the  Convention 
took  a  recess  until  half  past  two  o'clock. 

AFTERNOON  SESSION. 
The  Convention  was  called  to  order  at  half- 
past  two  o'clock. 

On  motion  of  Mr.  MANTOR,— 

"  Ordered,  That  all  engrossed  reports  be  printed 
immediately  for  the  use  of  members,  prepara- 
tory to  their  third  reading." 


438 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Tuesday,  August  11, 


FINAL  ADJOUKNMENT. 

On  motion  of  Mr.  COLBURN,  the  follow- 
ing resolution  was  taken  from  the  table  and 
read,  and  considered,  viz : 

"  Resolved,  That  this  Convention  adjourn  with- 
out day  on  Thursday  the  thirteenth  instant." 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  move  the  adoption  of 
the  following  substitute  for  the  resolution : 

"  Hesolved,  That  this  Convention  adjourn  with- 
out day  on  Saturday  the  fifteenth  instant." 

Mr.  HARDING  moved  to  amend  the  sub- 
stitute by  adding  thereto  the  words  "  at  twelve 
o'clock  M." 

The  amendment  was  lost. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  will  merely  say  that  it 
seems  to  me  that  we  may  be  able  to  get 
through  with  our  business  on  Saturday  night. 
If  it  is  generally  understood  that  that  time  is 
fixed  upon  for  adjournment,  the  various  com- 
mittees which  have  business  yet  to  do,  will 
attend  to  it  with  reference  to  adjourning  at 
that  time.  We  shall  have  to  fix  upon  some 
definite  time  and  it  may  as  well  be  done  now 
as  hereafter. 

The  substitute  was  adopted. 

Mr.  MORGAN.  I  now  move  that  the  res- 
olution as  amended  be  laid  on  the  table. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  hope  the  motion  will 
not  prevail.  I  am  aware  that  some  of  our 
members  are  detennined  to  leave  on  Saturday 
night  whether  the  Convention  adjourn  or  not, 
and  that  is  the  reason  which  has  induced  me 
to  try  to  get  through  with  our  business  at 
that  time.  If  anything  should  occur  by  which 
it  should  be  found  to  be  absolutely  necessary 
for  us  to  remain  here  longer,  it  will  be  com- 
petent for  the  Convention  to  rescind  the  reso- 
lution when  that  fact  is  ascertained.  But  I 
think  there  will  be  no  necessity  for  that  if 
each  member  works  with  reference  to  an  ad- 
journment at  that  time. 

Mr,  COGGSWELL,  I  hope  the  resolution 
will  be  adopted,  (Cries  of  "no"  "no,")  I 
sincerely  hope  that  we  shall  all  act  with  the 
intention  of  being  ready  to  adjourn  at  that 
time.  It  seems  to  mo  that  we  can  just  as 
well  be  ready  to  adjourn  at  that  time,  if  not 
at  an  earlier  day,  as  we  can  be  six  months 
hence.  I  am  well  aware  that  there  are  some 
members  who  would  as  soon  remain  here  all 
summer  as  not.  Perhaps  it  is  not  necessary 
to  call  names.  But  I  am  satisfied  from  the 
action  of  certain  men  that  they  would  as  soon 


remain  here  as  not.  I  am  myself  anxious  to 
go  home,  and  am  bound  to  go  home,  Consti- 
tutional Convention  or  no  Constitutional  Con- 
vention. And  this  idea  of  waiting,  and  es- 
pecially waiting  on  the  action  of  our  political 
enemies,  I  do  not  like.  I  know,  that  so  far 
as  our  own  business  is  concerned,  we  can 
transact  it  by  that  time.  I  hope  the  resolu- 
tion will  pass,  and  that  we  shall  all  apply 
ourselves  to  our  work  rigorously,  and  be  ready 
to  depart  by  Saturday  night. 

Mr.  SECOMBE,  called  for  the  yeas  and 
nays  upon  the  resolution,  to  lay  the  resolu- 
tion on  the  table. 

The  yeas  and  nays  were  refused. 

The  motion  to  lay  upon  the  table  was  not 
agreed  to. 

Mr.  PERKINS.  I  wish  to  say  a  word  be- 
fore the  vote  is  taken  upon  the  resolution.  I 
am  probably  as  anxious  to  go  home  as  any 
member  of  this  Convention.  I  have  got  rather 
sick  of  sitting  here,  and  desire  to  go  home  as 
badly  as  my  friend  from  Steele  County  (Mr. 
Coggswell).  But  notwithstanding  all  this 
personal  anxiety,  I  am  inclined  to  sit  here 
until  our  business  is  disposed  of,  if  it  takes 
six  months  longer,  I  am  not  disposed  to  tie 
up  the  hands  of  this  Convention  so  as  to 
oblige  it  it  to  suspend  its  work  next  Saturday 
whether  we  get  through  that  time  or  not. 
We  have  already  spent  five  weeks  here  and 
it  would  be  extremely  foolish  to  close  our 
labors  and  go  home  before  we  had  accom- 
plished what  we  were  sent  here  to  do.  We  may 
have  to  sit  two  or  three  days  longer  and  per- 
haps a  week.  If  we  do,  let  us  be  in  a  con- 
dition that  we  can  do  it.  And  even  if  it 
should  require  six  months  longer  time  to  com- 
plete a  Constitution  as  we  would  be  willing 
to  submit  to  our  constituents  let  us  take  that 
time  to  do  it — though  at  a  personal  sacrifice. 

Mr.  WILSON.  I  move  the  previous  ques- 
tion. I  do  not  want  to  discuss  a  resolution 
which  amounts  to  nothing  anyway. 

The  previous  question  was  seconded  and 
the  main  question  ordered  to  be  put ;  and 
under  the  operation  thereof,  the  resolution  was 
agreed  to. 

ELECTIVE   FBANCniSE, 

On  motion  of  Mr.  CLEGIIORN,  the  Con- 
vention resolved  itself  into  a  committee  of  the 
Whole,  (Mr.  Aldrich  in  the  Chair)  upon 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Tcesdat,  August  11. 


439 


report  number  nineteen,  from  the  committee 
on  Elective  Franchise. 

The  report  was  read  as  follows : 

"At  the  same  election  that  this  Constitution  is 
submitted  to  the  people  for  its  adoption  or  rejec- 
tion, a  proposition  to  amend  the  same  by  striking 
out  the  word  'white'  from  article  — ,  section 
one,  on  the  'Right  of  Suffrage,'  shall  be  sepa- 
rately submitted  to  the  electors  of  this  State  for 
adoption  or  rejection  in  the  manner  following : 
A  separate  ballot  may  be  given  by  every  person 
having  a  right  to  vote  at  said  election,  to  be  deposi- 
ted in  a  separate  box ;  and  those  given  for  the 
adoption  of  such  proposition  shall  have  the  words, 
'  shall  the  word  '  white '  be  stricken  out  of  the 
article  — ,  section  one,  on  the  '  Right  of  Suffrage  V 
Yes.'  And  those  given  against  the  propositton 
shall  have  the  words,  'Shall  the  word  'white'  be 
stricken  out  of  article  — ,  section  one,  on  the 
'  Right  of  Sufifrage !'  No.'  And  if,  at  said  elec- 
tion, the  number  of  ballots  cast  in  favor  of  said 
proposition  shall  be  a  majority  of  all  those  cast 
on  that  subject,  the  said  word  'white'  shall  be 
stricken  from  said  article,  and  be  no  part  thereof." 

Mr.  MORGAN.  I  move  that  the  commit- 
tee rise  and  report  back  the  resolution  with- 
out recommendation. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to,  and  the  com- 
mittee rose  and  reported  accordingly. 

Mr.  McKUNE.  I  move  that  the  report  be 
laid  on  the  table  in  order  to  allow  us  to  take 
up  the  imflnished  business  of  this  forenoon. 

The  motion  was  not  agreed  to. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  move  that  the  report 
be  referred  to  the  committe  on  the  Schedule, 
with  instructions  to  incorporate  such  a  pro- 
vision in  the  Schedule. 

Mr.  COG  GS WELL.  As  one  of  the  mem- 
bers of  that  committee,  I  hope  the  motion 
will  not  prevail,  for  the  reason  that  that  com- 
mittee have  more  upon  their  hands  now  than 
they  can  possibly  act  upon.  If  you  are  going 
to  heap  any  more  burdens  upon  that  com- 
mittee, you  had  better  add  some  members  to 
that  committee,  or  take  some  away  from  it 
who  are  as  lazy  as  I  am. 

Mr.  KING.  It  appears  to  me  that  upon 
reading  this  article,  that  it  cannot  be  voted 
upon  at  aU  at  the  next  election.  Our  present 
election  laws  require  that  all  votes  cast  shall 
be  upon  one  ballot,  while  this  article  pro- 
poses that  this  question  shall  be  voted  on,  on 
a  separate  ballot.  I  have  an  amendment  to 
offer,  which,  I  think,  will  obviate  that  diflS- 
culty. 


The  PRESIDENT.  The  motion  to  refer 
is  first  in  order. 

The  question  was  taken,  and  the  report  was 
referred  to  the  committee  on  the  Schedule, 
with  instructions  to  incorporate  it  into  the 
Schedule. 

BOUXDABV   OE   THE    STATE. 

Mr.  DAVIS,  to  whom  was  referred  the 
boundary  resolution,  this  morning,  reported 
the  same  back  to  the  Convention,  modified  as 
follows : 

"Besolved,  That  there  shall  be  submitted  to  the 
qualified  voters  of  this  Territory,  at  the  same 
time  this  Constitution  shall  be  submitted  for 
their  adoption  or  rejection,  the  following  proposi. 
tion,  (or  one  substantially  the  same ;)  and  if  the 
same  shall  receive  a  majority  of  all  the  votes  cast 
for  and  against  it,  then  the  same  shall  be  certified 
to  the  Congress  of  the  United  States,  as  the  wish 
and  request  of  the  people  to  change  the  boundary 
line  of  said  proposed  State  accordingly. 

"I^roposUion. — That  the  following  alteration  in 
the  boundary  line  mentioned  in  the  act  entitled 
'  An  act  to  authorize  the  people  of  Minnesota  to 
form  a  Constitution  and  State  Government  pre- 
paratory to  their  admission  into  the  Union  on  an 
equal  footing  with  the  original  States,'  approved 
March  third,  1857,  is  desired  by  the  people  of  the 
said  State  of  Minnesota;  and  if  the  same  shall 
be  assented  and  agreed  to  on  the  part  of  the  Con- 
gress of  the  United  States,  then  the  same  shall 
become  a  part  of  the  Constitution  of  said  State  of 
Minnesota  and  shall  be  and  forever  remain  obliga- 
tory upon  the  State." 

Then  follows  the  boundaries  proposed  as 
contained  in  the  resolution  as  originally  re- 
ported. 

Mr.  COGGSVTELL.  I  wish  to  say  that  I 
am  a  fiiend  of  this  East  and  West  line.  I  am 
in  favor  of  submitting  this  question  to  the 
people ;  and  I  am  in  favcw  of  having  this 
proposition,  when  it  has  been  submitted  to 
the  people,  and  when  it  has  been  ratified  by 
them,  become  a  part  and  parcel  of  the  Consti- 
tution, and  go  to  Congress  as  such.  But  I 
am  not  in  favor  of  that  resolution,  as  it  now 
stands.  I  wish  to  ask  who  it  is  that  can  cer- 
tify that  preference,  that  wish,  that  desire, 
which  the  people  may  express.  How  can  it 
be  certified  to  Congress?  And  after  you 
have  certified  it  to  Congress,  what  does  it 
amount  to  ?  Even  after  Congress  has  gran- 
ted the  prayer,  the  wish,  and  the  desire  of 
inhabitants  of  this  Territory,  then  what  is  it  ? 
It  seems  to  me  that  the  resolution,  as  it  now 


440 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Tcesdat,  August  .11 


stands,  amounts  to  nothing.  It  is  not  good 
as  a  memorial.  It  is  not  as  good  as  a  resolu- 
tion to  be  passed  by  this  Convention,  and  for 
one  I  am  decidedly  opposed  to  it.  I  want  it 
in  such  a  shape  that  when  it  has  been  ratified 
by  a  majority  of  the  voters  of  this  State,  and 
when  it  has  been  assented  to  by  Congress,  it 
shall  form  a  part  and  parcel  of  the  Consti- 
tution of  the  State  of  Minnesota.  With  that 
view,  I  move  that  the  resolution  lie  upon  the 
table  until  to-morrow,  and  in  the  meantime  I 
will  prepare  an  amendment. 
The  motion  was  agreed  to. 

NEGRO   SUFFBAQE. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  I  understand  that 
the  resolution  which  I  offered  the  other  day, 
upon  the  subject  of  submitting  to  the  people 
the  question  of  negro  suflfrage,  was  not 
referred  to  the  committee  on  the  Schedule, 
and  as  I  desire  to  have  a  vote  to  know 
whether  it  is  the  intention  of  this  Convention 
to  have  such  a  question  submitted  or  not,  I 
move  to  take  that  resolution  from  the  table, 
and  consider  it  at  this  time. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to. 

The  resolution  was  read  as  follows  : 

"  Hesohed,  That  there  shall  be  submitted  to  the 
qualified  voters  of  this  Territory,  at  the  time  this 
Constitution  is  submitted  to  them  for  their  ratifi- 
cation or  rejection,  the  following  proposition,  and 
if  it  shall  receive  a  majority  of  all  the  votes  cast, 
both  for  and  against  it,  then  it  shall  become  a  part 
and  portion  of  the  Constitution ;  otherwise  it  ahall 
be  absolutely  null  and  void. 

"Proposition  1.  Every  male  person,  of  either 
mixed  or  full  African  or  Negro  blood,  of  the  age 
of  twenty-one  years  and  upwards,  and  who  shall 
have  resided  in  this  State  six  months  next  pre- 
ceding any  election,  andin^the  town,  precinct,  or 
ward  in  which  he  claims  the  right  to  vote,  ten  days 
next  preceding  the  same,  shall  be  deemed  a  quali- 
fied elector,  and  shall  have  the  right  to  vote  for  all 
officers  which  may  be  elected  by  the  people." 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  We  have  already  referred 
a  resolution  of  this  nature  to  the  committee 
on  the  Schedule,  with  instructions  to  incorpo- 
rate such  a  provision  into  the  Schedule. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  The  gentleman  prob- 
ably refers  to  the  action  of  the  Convention 
this  morning.  Now  I  apprehend  that  that 
has  nothing  to  do  with  the  resolution  now 
before  the  Convention.  As  one  of  the  com- 
mittee on  the  Schedule,  I  would  hke  to  liavo 
the  sense  of  this  Convention  taken  in  refer- 
ence to  this  subject,  and  I  do  not  know  of  any 


better  way  of  taking  that  sense,  than  by  a 
direct  vote  upon  the  passage  of  this  resolution. 

Mr.  ALDRICH.  Has  not  this  Convention 
this  very  afternoon  adopted  a  similar  resolu- 
tion and  referred  it  to  the  committee  on  the 
Schedule,  with  instructions  to  incorporate  the 
same  into  the  Constitution  as  a  part  and  par- 
cel of  it  ?  If  the  gentleman  merely  wishes  to 
ascertain  the  sense  of  the  Convention  I  have 
no  objection  to  voting  on  the  resolution. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  I  wish  to  say  that  in 
my  judgment  a  proposition  of  the  character 
of  the  one  I  have  offered  would  have  an  en- 
tirely different  effect,  provided  it  were  adopted, 
than  would  the  striking  out  the  word  "  whitei" 
from  the  article  on  the  elective  franchise.  I 
apprehend  that  by  striking  out  the  word 
"  white,"  from  that  article,  it  might  affect  a 
class  other  and  different  from  the  negro,  and 
inasmuch  as  I  desire  to  have  this  question  of 
negro  suffrage  submitted  separately  and  dif- 
tinctly  and  submitted  upon  its  own  merits, 
entirely  disconnected  with  the  rights  of  the 
Indian,  the  Chinese,  or  the  rights  of  any  body 
else  who  may  have  a  little  color  in  their  skin, 
I  wish  a  vote  taken  upon  it  by  the  Conven- 
tion. If  I  recollect  the  way  and  manner  in 
which  the  article  on  the  elective  franchise  now 
stands,  the  striking  out  the  word  "  white " 
would  have  entirely  a  different  effect  from  the 
adoption  of  this  proposition.  For  that  reason 
I  want  the  sense  of  the  Convention  upon  it. 

Mr.  MORGAN.  We  have  just  acted  upon 
one  proposition,  which  was  to  be  submitted 
to  the  people  upon  the  subject  of  negro  suf- 
frage, and  I  did  not  suppose  that  it  would 
come  up  in  any  other  form.  I  do  not  under- 
stand now  whether  it  is  proposed  to  submit 
that  resolution  as  a  separate  proposition,  dis- 
tinct from  this,  and  as  a  second  proposition, 
or  whether  it  is  to  be  substituted  for  the 
proposition  already  adopted.  If  it  is  to  be 
submitted  just  in  the  manner  proposed,  it 
seems  to  me  that  it  ought  to  be  printed  and 
laid  before  the  Convention  in  a  shape  in  which 
it  could  be  examined. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  As  remarked  by  the 
gentleman  who  has  just  taken  his  seat,  this 
matter  has  been  disposed  of  to-day,  and  I 
therefore  move  that  the  further  consideration 
of  this  resolution  be  indefinitely  postponed. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL  demanded  the  3'eas 
and  nays. 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Wednesday,  AcGtrsr  12. 


441 


The  yeas  and  nays  were  refused. 

The  question  was  then  taken,  and  the  mo- 
tion to  postpone  indefinitely  was  agreed  to. 

Mr.  SECOMBE  moved,  (at  three  o'clock) 
that  the  Convention  adjourn. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  If  the  gentieman  wffl 
withdraw  his  motion  I  will  move  that  we  take 
a  recess  for  an  hour. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  will  withdraw  my 
motion. 

Then  on  motion  of  Mr.  GALBRAITH, 
the  Convention  took  a  recess  until  four 
o'clock. 

The    Convention    re-assembled    at    four 
o'clock. 

COJCMirrEE    OF   COSFEBEXCE. 

Mr.  COLBURN  offered  tiie  following  reso- 
lution : 

"Sesolved,  That  the  Secretary  of  this  Conven- 
tion is  hereby  directed  to  communicate  to  the  pre- 
siding officer  of  that  portion  of  the  delegates  to  the 
Constitutional  Convention  assembled  in  the  coun- 
cil chamber  of  this  Capitol,  an  attested  copy  of 
the  Preamble  and  Resolution  in  reference  to  a 
committee  of  conference  adopted  on  the  tenth  inst. 
and  the  official  action  of  this  Convention  thereon. 

Mr.  SECOilBE  demanded  the  yeas  and 
nays  upon  the  passage  of  the  resolution. 

The  yeas  and  nays  were  refused. 

The  resolution  was  then  adopted. 

And  thereupon,  on  motion  of  Mr._FOSTER, 
the  Convention  adjourned. 


TWENTY-SEVENTH  DAY. 

Wednesday,  August  12th,  1858. 

The  Convention  met  at  9  o'clock,  a.  m. 

Prayer  by  the  Rev.  Mr.  Mattocks. 

The  journal  of  yesterday  was  read  and  ap- 
proved. 

reports. 

Mr.  MANTOR,  from  the  committee  on  En- 
grossment reported  back  as  correctly  en- 
grossed, report  No.  eighteen,  on  the  Judiciary 
Department. 

Mr.  SECOMBE,  from  the  committee  on 
Public  Property  made  the  following  report 
which  was  read  a  first  and  second  time  and 
laid  upon  the  table  to  be  printed,  viz : 

"Sec.  1.    The  State  shall  have  concurrent  juris- 
diction on  the  Mississippi,  and  all  other  rivers  and 
waters  bordering  on  this  State,  so  far  as  the  same 
shall  form  a  boundary  to  this  State  and  any  other 
56 


State  or  States,  now  or  hereafter  to  be  formed  or 
bounded  by  the  same,  and  said  river  and  waters 
leading  into  the  same,  shall  be  common  highways, 
and  forever  free,  as  well  to  the  inhabitants  of  this 
State  as  to  all  other  citizens  of  the  United  States, 
without  any  tax  duty,  import  or  toll  therefor. 

"  Sec.  2.  The  people  of  the  State  in  their  right 
of  sovereignty,  are  declared  to  possess  the  ulti- 
mate property  in  and  to  all  lands  within  the  juris- 
diction of  the  State ;  and  all  lands  the  title  to  which 
shall  fail  from  a  defect  of  heirs,  shall  revert  or 
escheat  to  the  people. 

"  Sec.  3.  The  title  to  all  lands  and  other  prop- 
erty which  has  accrued  to  the  Territory  of  Minne- 
sota by  grant,  gift,  purchase,  forfeiture,  escheat 
or  otherwise,  shall  vest  in  the  State  of  Minnesota. 

"Sec.  4.  The  proceeds  of  all  lands  that  have 
been  or  may  hereafter  be  granted  or  set  apart  and 
reserved  by  the  United  States  to  the  Territory  or 
State  of  Minnesota,  for  the  use  and  support  of  a 
University,  shall  be  and  remain  a  perpetual  fund 
to  be  called  the  '  University  Fund,'  which  shall 
be  appropriated  to  the  use  and  support  of  the 
'  University  of  Minnesota,'  incorporated  by  an'act 
of  the  Legislative  Assembly  of  the  said  Territory, 
and  for  no  other  purpose,  in  such  manner  as  the 
Legislature  of  the  State  shall  prescribe,  in  accor- 
dance with  the  provisions  of  the  said  act  of  incor- 
poration, and  not  otherwise. 

"  Sec.  5.  The  proceeds  of  all  lands  that  have 
been  or  may  hereafter  be  granted  to  the  State  for 
the  purpose  of  completing  the  public  buildings,  or 
for  the  erection  of  others  at  the  seat  of  govern- 
ment shall  be  appropriated  for  the  said  purpose 
exclusively,  under  the  direction  of  the  Legislature 
of  the  State,  and  not  otherwise. 

"  Sec.  6.  Th«  proceeds  of  all  salt  springs  and 
lands  adjoining  or  contiguous  thereto,  that  have 
been  or  hereafter  may  be  granted  to  the  State  for 
its  use,  shall  be  appropriated  to  the  use  of  the 
State,  to  be  used  or  disposed  of  on  such  terms, 
conditions  and  regulations  as  the  Legislature  of 
the  State  shall  direct,  and  not  otherwise. 

"Sec  7.  The  five  per  centum  of  the  net  proceeds 
of  sales  of  the  public  lands  lying  within  the  State, 
which  shall  be  paid  to  the  State  for  the  purpose  of 
making  public  roads  and  internal  improvements 
shall  be  appropriated  for  the  said  purpose  exclu- 
sively, as  the  Legislature  of  the  State  shall  direct, 
and  not  otherwise. 

"  All  of  which  is  respectfnlly  submitted." 

BOrjfDABIES   OF   THE    STATE. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  I  move  that  the  res- 
olution offered  by  the  gentleman  from  Nicol- 
let, (Mr.  Davis)  which  was  laid  over  yester- 
day, be  now  taken  up. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to  and  the  resolu- 
tion was  again  read  to  the  Convention. 

On  motion  of  Mr.  COGGSWELL,  the  Con- 
vention resolved  itself  into  a  Committee  of 


442 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Wednespat,  August  12. 


the  Whole,  (Mr.  Thompson  in  the  Chair,) 
upon  the  resolution  just  taken  from  the  table. 

(For  resolution,  see  proceedings  of  Monday 
and  Tuesday.) 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  I  move  to  strike  out 
all  after  the  word  "  it,"  in  the  thirteenth  line, 
and  insert  the  following :  "  Then  the  same 
"  shall  go  to  the  Congress  of  the  United  States 
"  with  this  Constitution,  and,  if  assented  to 
"  by  Congress,  then  the  same  shall  be  a  part 
"  of  said  Constitution,  and  binding  upon  the 
"  people  of  the  State  of  Minnesota,  without 
"  any  further  act  upon  their  part" — 

So  that  the  whole  clause  shall  read  as  fol- 
lows: 

"  Besolved,  That  there  shall  be  submitted  to  the 
qualified  voters  of  this  Territory,  at  the  same  time 
this  Constitution  shall  be  submitted  for  their  adop- 
tion or  rejection,  the  following  proposition,  (or  one 
substantially  the  same) ;  and  if  the  same  shall  re- 
ceive a  majority  of  all  the  votes  cast  for  and  against 
it,  then  the  same  shall  go  to  the  Congress  of  the 
United  States  with  this  Constitution,  and  if  assent- 
ed to  by  Congress,  then -the  same  shall  be  a  part  of 
said  Constitution  and  binding  upon  the  people  of 
the  State  of  Minnesota  without  any  further  act 
upon  their  part." 

The  amendment  was  rejected. 

Mr.  FOLSOM.  I  move  to  amend  by  stri- 
king out  all  after  the  words,  "  main  channel 
"  of  the  Mississippi  river,"  and  insert,  "  until 
"  it  is  intersected  by  the  parallel  of  forty-five 
"  degrees  north  latitude,  thence  west  on  said 
"parallel  of  latitude  until  it  intersects  the 
"  Missouri  river  at  the  place  of  beginning." 

Mr.  MORGAN.  We  had  this  resolution 
before  us  day  before  yesterday  and  yester- 
day, and  after  a  long  discussion  it  was  ascer- 
tained that  members  did  not  imderstand 
what  the  proposition  was,  as  it  was  not  in 
print.  The  tru3  state  of  the  proposition  was 
only  accidentally  made  known  to  the  commit- 
tee by  a  reference  to  the  newspapers.  AVe 
have  it  up  before  us  again,  and  it  has  not 
been  printed.  To  avoid  errors,  and  the  un- 
pleasant predicament  in  which  we  found  our- 
selves the  other  day,  I  move  that  the  commit- 
tee rise,  report  back  the  resolution  to  the  Con- 
vention with  a  recommendation  that  the  same 
be  printed. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to. 

The  committee  accordingly  rose,  and  re- 
ported the  resolution  to  the  Convention,  with 
the  recommendation  of  the  committee. 


The  question  being  upon  ordering  the  reso- 
lution to  be  printed — 

Mr.  COGGSWELL  said :  I  think,  Mr, 
President,  that  every  member  of  this  Con- 
vention must  necessarily  know  that,  in  the 
first  place,  it  is  entirely  useless  to  order  that 
resolution  printed;  and  in  the  next  place, 
that  it  is  only  a  mode  which  has  been 
adopted  by  the  enemies  of  this  resolution,  to 
stave  the  thing  off;  for  we  know  that,  in  the 
present  state  of  our  printing,  the  resolution 
will  not  be  printed  and  laid  upon  our  tables 
until  the  time  arrives  which  we  have  fixed  for 
adjourning.  And  I  want  the  friends  of  this 
measure  to  understand  what  is  intended  by 
this  movement.  I  call  for  the  yeas  and  nays 
upon  the  question  of  ordering  the  resolution 
to  be  printed — for  that,  in  substance,  is  the 
recommendation  of  the  Committee  of  the 
Whole. 

The  yeas  and  nays  were  ordered,  and  the 
question  being  taken  it  was  decided  in  the  af- 
firmative— ^yeas  25,  nays  22,  as  follows : 

Yeas. — Messrs.  Aldrich,  Anderson,  Baldwin, 
Bates,  Bolles,  BuLler,  Cederstam,  Coombs,  Eschlie, 
Foster,  Folsom,  Galbraith,  Hayden,  Hudson,  Han- 
son, Lowe,  Messer,  Morgan,  North,  Peckham, 
Russell,  Stannard,  Sheldon,  Vaughn,  and  Wi- 
nell. — 25  votes. 

Kays. — Messrs.  Bartholomew,  Billings,  Colburn, 
Cleghorn,  Coggswell,  Davis,  Duley,  Dickerson, 
Harding,  King,  Lyle,  Mantor,  McCann,  McKune, 
McClure,  Mills,  Phelps,  Secombe,  Thompson,  Wat- 
son, Wilson,  and  the  President. — 22  votes. 

So  the  recommendation  was  concurred  in. 

Mr.  BUTLER.  I  move  to  reconsider  the 
vote  by  which  the  Convention  ordered  the  re- 
solution to  be  printed. 

Mr.  HAYDEN.  I  move  a  call  of  the 
House. 

A  call  of  the  House  was  ordered,  and  the 
roll  being  called,  the  following  members  failed 
to  answer  to  their  names : 

Messrs.  Ayer,  Bartholomew,  Gerrish, 
Hall,  Holley,  Kemp,  and  Murphy. 

Mr.  COLBURN  moved  that  all  further  pro- 
ceedings under  the  call  .be  dispensed  with ; 
which  motion  was  not  agreed  to. 

The  Sergeant-at-Arms  was  directed  to  re- 
port the  absentees  in  their  seats. 

After  an  interval  of  fifteen  minutes — 

Mr.  HAYDEN  moved  to  reconsider  the 
vote  by  which  the  Convention  refused  to  sus- 
pend all  further  proceedings  under  the  call. 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Wednesday,  ArcrsT  12. 


443 


The  motion  to  reconsider  prevailed,  and 
then  all  further  proceedings  under  the  call 
were  dispensed  with. 

The  question  was  then  put  upon  the  motion 
to  reconsider  the  vote  by  which  the  Conven- 
tion ordered  the  resolution,  offered  by  Mr. 
Davis,  to  be  printed  ;  and  the  motion  to  re- 
consider prevailed. 

The  question  then  recurred  upon  the  mo- 
tion to  print,  and  being  put  it  was  not 
agreed  to. 

The  resolution  was  then  before  the  Con- 
vention for  amendment  or  adoption. 

Mr.  MORGAN.  I  rose  and  addressed  the 
Chair  before  the  motion  to  print  was  put.  I 
wished  to  give  some  reasons  why  I  made  the 
motion  to  have  the  proposition  printed. 

The  PRESIDENT.  The  Chair  was  not 
aware  that  the  gentleman  addressed  the  Chair. 

Mr.  MORGAN.  It  is  very  clear  that  mem- 
bers of  the  Convention  did  not  understand 
the  question  when  it  was  put,  from  the  fact 
that  nobody  voted  for  it ;  when  it  is  well 
known  that  there  is  a  large  number,  if  not  a 
majority  here,  who  desire  to  have  this  resolu- 
tion printed. 

Mr.  HARDING.  I  move  to  reconsider 
the  vote  by  which  the  Convention  refused  to 
order  the  resolution  to  be  printed. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  I  do  hope  that  this 
resolution  will  be  disposed  of  to-day.  If  it 
is  the  desire  of  this  Convention  to  kill  it,  I 
want  them  to  do  it  like  men.  Let  them  come 
up  like  men  and  vote  right  plump  against  it. 
I  dislike  this  method  of  getting  up  motions 
which  will  have  the  same  effect,  and  behind 
which  gentlemen  undertake  to  shield  them- 
selves from  public  ignominy.  As  one  of  the 
representatives  of  a  district  deeply  interested 
in  this  matter,  I  ask  that  this  resolution  may 
be  passed ;  I  ask,  too,  that  it  may  be  passed 
or  the  reason  that  it  is  carrying  out  a  Re- 
publican principle;  I  ask  that  it  may  be 
passed  for  the  reason  that  I  know  that  it  will 
enhance  and  increase  the  interest  of  the  Re- 
publican party.  But  if  it  is  the  wish  and  de- 
sire of  the  members  of  this  Convention  to 
knock  it  in  the  head,  I  desire  that  they  shall 
come  up  like  men,  in  open  daylight,  and  do  it. 

Mr.  FOSTER.  I  desire  to  offer  a  substitute. 

The  PRESIDENT.  The  motion  before  the 
Convention  is  a  motion  to  reconsider. 

Mr.  MORGAN.     I  stated  that  I  wanted  to 


offer  some  reasons  why  I  thought  this  docu- 
ment ought  to  be  printed.  At  the  commence- 
ment of  our  session  we  adopted  a  general  rule 
that  all  reports  emanating  from  committees, 
however  unimportant  they  might  be,  should 
be  printed.  Now  here  comes  before  us  a  pro- 
position which  it  is  proposed  to  make  a  part 
of  our  Constitution  in  a  certain  conting-ncy, 
and  which  is  to  be  submitted  to  the  people  to 
be  voted  upon  by  them.  It  comes  before  us 
in  manuscript,  and  we  only  hear  it  read.  It 
seems  to  me  to  be  eminently  proper  that  every 
proposition  which  is  proposed  to  be  submitted 
to  the  people  of  the  Territory,  and  which,  in 
a  contingency,  may  become  a  part  of  the  Con- 
stitution, should  be  printed  and  laid  before 
members,  that  they  may  examine  it,  and  see 
all  its  bearings.  It  is  no  more  than  a  matter 
of  courtesy  to  members  of  this  body  that 
they  should  have  before  them,  in  printed  form, 
all  the  propositions  upon  which  they  are  ex- 
pected to  act.  It  is  a  courtesy  which  is  usu- 
ally extended  in  such  cases,  and  ought  not  to 
be  denied.  The  pretence  which  has  been  sta- 
ted here,  that  this  motion  is  made  for  the  pur- 
pose of  staving  off  action,  is  entirely  without 
foundation,  in  fact.  As  I  stated  before,  we 
had  this  proposition  before  us  in  another  form 
on  Monday  last,  and  the  occurrences  of  that 
day  ought  to  teach  the  gentleman  from  Steele 
county  that  such  a  motion  as  this  is  eminently 
proper,  to  say  the  least  of  it,  if  not  absolutely 
necessary.  It  became  evident,  after  a  long 
debate,  that  members  did  not  understand 
what  the  resolution  was,  and  they  admitted 
that  it  was  so,  and  it  arose  from  the  fact  that 
they  had  only  heard  it  read  from  the  clerk's 
desk.  Now  it  comes  before  us  again,  in 
amended  form,  and  it  has  not  been  printed. 
It  is  very  important  that  every  proposition 
should  be  thoroughly  understood  by  mem- 
bers, and  we  cannot  understand  the  precise 
bearing  of  this  matter  just  from  hearing  it 
read.  And  allow  me  to  say  here,  that  most 
of  the  mistakes  which  are  committed,  and  the 
frauds  which  are  perpetrated,  in  legislation, 
have  been  brought  about  by  a  failure  of  hav- 
ing matters  printed  which  come  before  legis- 
lative bodies. 

I  therefore  hope  that  the  vote  by  which  the 
Convention  refused  to  order  the  resolution  to 
be  printed  will  be  reconsidered,  and  then  that 
the  motion  will  be  adopted. 


444 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Wednesday,  August  12. 


Mr.  BOLLES.  I  wish  to  say  in  reference 
to  my  vote  upon  this  matter,  that  I  had  no 
disposition  to  delay  the  consideration  of  this 
resolution,  or  to  stave  it  oif,  and  finally  to  de- 
feat it.  The  gentleman  from  Steele  will  recol- 
lect that  I  have  told  him  repeatedly  that  when 
the  proposition  came  hefore  the  Convention  in 
a  proper  shape,  so  that  I  could  vote  for  it  un- 
derstandingly,  I  would  do  so  most  heartily 
and  cheerfully.  It  will  be  recollected,  that 
day  before  yesterday,  after  a  long  discussion, 
and  as  we  were  about  coming  to  a  vote,  it 
was  discovered  that  the  resolution,  if  adopted, 
would  have  knocked  our  acceptance  of  the 
Enabling  Act  in  the  head,  and  we  should  have 
been  just  where  we  were  before  we  left  home, 
so  far  as  our  connection  with  Congress  is  con- 
cerned, because  we  should  have  left  it  an  open 
question  whether  Congress  would  accept  it  or 
not.  Men  may  not  view  that  matter  in  the 
exact  light  that  I  do ;  but  I  think  I  view  it  in 
a  correct  light,  and  therefore  I  moved  to  refer 
it  back  to  have  it  altered.  The  report  came 
back  to  us  yesterday  amended,  and  amended 
in  a  manner  satisfactory  to  me,  and  was  laid 
over  until  to-day.  To-day  it  comes  up  and 
another  alteration  is  made  or  proposed,  ema- 
nating from  the  friends  of  the  resolution. 
Now  I  do  not  profess  to  be  particularly  skilled 
in  discussing  technicalities,  but  I  think  that 
gentlemen  have  not  acted  perfectly  upright  in 
this.  I  did  suppose  that  in  the  first  instance 
when  the  matter  was  referred  back  to  the 
gentlemen  who  ofiered  it,  that  he  would  con- 
sult with  his  friends,  and  that  they  would  get 
up  something  which  they  themselves  could 
stand  by  and  which  we  could  understand 
without  difficulty,  if  they  wanted  us  to  act 
upon  the  resolution  without  having  it  printed. 
Why  could  they  not  get  up  a  thing  which  we 
could  understand  and  which  there  could  be 
no  mistake  about  ?  and  not  come  here,  after 
having  done  what  they  have,  and  charge  us 
with  a  disposition  to  stave  off"  and  defeat  a 
matter  which  they  have  at  heart.  I  am  per- 
fectly willing  that  the  question  should  be  sub- 
mitted to  the  people,  and  I  hope  that  all 
those  individuals  who  have  not  interest 
enough  in  a  north  and  south  line  to  vote 
upon  it,  will  be  defeated.  I  think  it  is  a  ques- 
tion which  is  important  enough  to  call  out  a 
vote.  I  am  willing  that  these  gentlemen  shall 
have  a  vote,  and  do  their  best ;  and  may  the 


party,  which  does  not  feel  interest  enough  to 
go  into  the  field  and  fight  the  battle,  be  de- 
feated. I  have  no  personal  feeling  upon  the 
subject.  I  vote  for  the  proposition  as  a  mat- 
ter of  accommodation,  just  as  I  would  in  any 
other  matter  in  which  I  had  no  personal  feel- 
ing, and  in  which  there  was  no  principle  at 
stake.  But  I  want  to  vote  for  a  proposition 
properly  worded  and  guarded,  and  I  do  not 
want  to  be  charged  with  making  an  attempt 
to  stave  off"  a  matter  for  which  I  intend  to 
vote.  .  I  repudiate  the  charge  entirely. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  I  wish  to  say  a  few 
words  in  regard  to  the  statement  made  by  the 
gentleman  concerning  discoveries  which  he 
made  yesterday  ;  or  discoveries  that  anybody 
else  made — if  that  suits  him  any  better — of 
certain  language,  which,  if  adopted,  would 
have  knocked  us  a  "kiting,"  as  he  says.  I 
hold  in  my  hand  the  first  part  of  that  resolu- 
tion, and  I  will  read  it,  and  then  see  how  far 
it  would  have  knocked  us  up.  The  language 
is  this : 

"And  if  the  same  shall  receive  a  majority  of  all 
the  votes  cast,  both  for  and  against  it,  then  the 
same  shall  be  a  part  of  this  Constitution,  and  go 
with  the  same  to  the  Congress  of  the  United 
States,  to  be  acted  upon  by  them  as  they  may  see 
proper,  &c." 

Now  I  pretend  to  say  that  that  was  in  the 
right,  the  proper,  and  the  correct  language ; 
and  I  pretend  to  say  that  if  it  had  passed  in 
that  shape,  instead  of  embarrassing  our  ad- 
mission into  the  Union,  it  would  have  for- 
warded that  object ;  that  instead  of  prolong- 
ing the  time  before  we  should  come  into  the 
Union  as  a  State,  in  my  judgment  it  would 
have  shortened  it.  Now  when  we  come  to 
look  into  the  Constitution  of  Wisconsin,  we 
find  there  ten  thousand  times  stronger  lan- 
guage than  this,  and  we  find  it  there  to-day 
as  a  part  and  portion  of  her  Constitution — a 
provision  which  in  its  language  is  a  great  deal 
stronger  than  that  which  is  used  here ;  and 
yet  it  did  not  embarrass  her  admission  into 
the  Union  as  a  State.  But  we  have  some  re- 
markably wise  men  in  our  Convention — men 
who  possess  a  great  deal  more  wisdom  and 
sagacity  than  the  men  who  framed  the  Con- 
stitution of  Wisconsin.  They  did  not  sup- 
pose when  they  were  incorporating  into  their 
Constitution  language  a  great  deal  stronger 
than  this,  that  it  would  embarrass  their  ad- 
mission into  the  Union  at  all.     Not  by  any 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— "Wednesday,  August  12. 


445 


means.  They  framed  their  Constitution  un- 
der an  Enabling  Act  substantially  like  ours, 
and  which  prescribed  their  boundaries  just 
as  ours  does  ours.  Now  I  pretend  to  say 
that  all  this  hue  and  cry  raised  about  this 
matter  is  for  effect.  I  say  that  that  language, 
if  adopted  would  hasten  the  time  of  our  ad- 
mission into  the  Union,  for  I  know  of  20,000 
inhabitants  of  this  Territory  who  are  deeply 
interested  in  this  question  of  the  boundary 
Une,  and  I  know  that  unless  their  rights  are 
respected,  the  Repubhean  part}',  who  are 
trampling  upon  their  own  principles,  will  be 
suflferers. 

So  far  as  I  am  concerned  I  do  not  desire  to 
insert  any  language  into  the  resolution  which 
would  embarrass  our  admission  into  the  Union, 
and  I  dislike  very  much  that  gentlemen  should 
rise  here,  and  insinuate  substantially  that  I 
undertake  to  play  a  trick  by  inserting  lan- 
guage, which  will  have  a  tendency  to  keep  us 
out  of  the  Union  for  a  considerable  time  to 
come. 

Mr.  NORTH.  It  seems  to  me  that  re- 
marks which  throw  out  flings  about  the 
wisdom  of  men  who  occupy  seats  in  this  Con- 
vention, are  uncalled  for.  If  some  of  us 
choose  to  dififer  with  those  who  drew  up  this 
resolution,  and  if  we  entertain  the  idea  that 
it  really  does  contain  language  which  would 
have  an  injurious  effect  upon  our  interest,  I 
don't  know  that  we  should  have  taunts  thrown 
out  that  we  are  not  as  wise  as  the  men  who 
framed  the  Wisconsin  Constitution.  We 
may  be  and  we  may  not  be  as  wise,  but 
whether  we  are  or  not,  I  do  not  know  as  that 
is  a  question  which  we  need  contend  about  at 
this  time. 

It  seems  to  me  there  is  a  great  deal  of  un- 
neccessary  effort  on  the  part  of  some  gende- 
men  from  certain  portions  of  the  Territory  to 
place  themselves  right  before  their  constitu- 
ents, and  that  there  is  unnecessary  haste  in 
this  matter.  I  would  like  to  accommodate 
those  gentlemen  who  desire  that  this  question 
shall  be  submittted  to  the  people,  and  if  it 
can  be  done  in  such  a  form  as  to  make  it  en- 
tirely safe,  it  seems  to  me  that  no  harm  can 
be  done  by  it, — no  more  than  this,  that  it 
would  make  it  incumbent  upon  us,  who  are 
in  fiivq;r  of  a  North  and  South  line,  to  fight 
that  battle ;  and  if  those  who  are  in  favor  of 
an  East  and  West  line,  fight  as  hard,  we  might 


be  brought  into  conflict  throughout  the  cam- 
paign. But  it  seems  to  me  that  if  this  mat- 
ter is  delayed  a  little,  and  we  await  the  action 
of  the  Conference  Committee,  the  thing  can  be 
settled  without  any  difficulty  whatever.  With 
that  view,  and  for  that  purpose  I  voted  to 
have  the  resolution  printed.  It  seems  to  me 
that  if  we  await  the  result  of  present  negotia- 
tions about  submitting  one  Constitution,  that 
might  inflence  our  conclusions  veiy  much 
about  the  propriety  of  submitting  this  ques- 
tion to  the  people.  But  at  any  rate,  it  seems 
to  me  that  the  form  of  this  memorial  shoiild 
be  weU  considered,  and  that  gentlemen  should 
have  an  opportunity  to  know  what  they  are 
called  to  vote  upon,  and  that  when  they  do . 
raise  objections  they  should  not  be  called  very 
foolish,  if  they  do  chance  to  difler  with  other 
gentlemen  in  reference  to  it. 

Mr.  WILSON.  The  last  argument  I  ever 
heard  of  being  brought  up  in  favor  of  any 
cause,  is  that  some  gentlemen  are  not  capable 
of  understanding  some  thing,  and  had  been 
misxmderstood  heretofore,  and  may  be  again. 
Whose  fault  is  it  that  they  did  not  under- 
stand the  meaning  of  the  resolution?  Are 
we  bound  to  go  round  and  interpret  it  to 
them,  or  to  bring  up  something  which  we 
know  they  can  imderstand?  Those  who  can 
not  understand  this,  -will  never  understand 
anything.  If  it  is  through  inadvertence,  it  is 
their  own  fault,  and  not  ours. 

That  any  person  tried  to  deceive,  so  far  as 
I  am  concerned,  I  know  of  no  such  thing, 
and  I  beheve  there  was  no  such  thing.  I 
prefer  to  vote  here,  and  now,  and  have  this 
thing  settled.  I  do  not  want  to  discuss  it 
further,  nor  do  I  want  insinuations  thrown 
out  that  there  was  an  intention  to  deceive. 
It  is  a  short  matter,  plainly  written  and  plain- 
ly worded,  and  if  gentlemen  do  not  under- 
stand it  now,  it  can  be  read  again.  I  have 
never  seen  it  at  all,  but  I  have  heard  it  read, 
and  I  do  not  believe  there  is  any  thing  intri- 
cate in  it. 

Mr.  MESSER.  Perhaps  the  gentleman 
trusted  more  to  the  remarks  of  gentlemen 
upon  that  side  than  to  the  resolution  itself; 
and  if  we  had  trusted  to  them,  no  one  would 
ever  have  mistrusted  that  there  were  any  such 
ideas  contained  in  the  resolution,  as  were 
found  to  be  contained  in  it.  They  asked  of 
us  m«rely  that  we  sboidd  let  this  question  go 


446 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Wednesday,  Attgust  12. 


to  the  people  that  they  might  vote  upon  it  and 
that  then  it  should  be  a  memorial,  a  mere  re- 
quest to  Congi-ess.  Instead  of  that  we  found, 
that  if  it  received  a  majority  of  the  votes  of 
the  people,  it  was  to  be  part  and  parcel  of  the 
Constitution.  In  that  respect  gentlemen  found 
that  they  had  been  mistaken.  I  think  it  arose 
from  the  fact  that  they  relied  upon  the  re- 
marks of  gentlemen,  and  not  upon  the  resolu- 
tion itself.  And  I  cannot  understand  why 
gentlemen,  who  have  urged  upon  the  Conven- 
tion that  this  should  go  before  the  people,  and 
go  up  to  Congress  as  a  request  merely,  de- 
tached entirely  from  the  Constitution,  should 
now  change  about  and  introduce  an  amend- 
ment which  will  make  it  a-  part  of  the  Con- 
stitution. If  all  they  desire  is  that  it  shall  go 
simply  as  a  memorial  and  request  to  Congress 
why  not  adopt  the  amendment  suggested  by 
the  gentleman  from  Goodhue  county,  (Mr. 
McClure.) 

Mr.  WILSON.  I  want  it  fully  uftderstood 
that  I  never  spoke  of  making  it  anything  but 
a  mere  request,  and  not  a  part  of  the  Consti- 
tution. I  never  thought  of  any  such  thing, 
and  never  used  any  language  that  could  be 
construed  into  any  such  meaning. 

Mr.  PERKINS.  I  spoke  yesterday  in  fa- 
vor of  the  passage  of  this  resolution,  and  I 
am  one  of  those  who  really  did  misapprehend 
the  import  of  the  resolution ;  and  I  think  if 
any  one  will  take  the  trouble  to  read  the  re- 
marks of  the  mover  of  the  resolution  as  re- 
ported in  some  of  the  papers,  he  will  see  that 
the  impression  that  gentlemen  conveyed  is  dif- 
ferent from  that  conveyed  by  the  resolution 
itself.  Now  while  I  was  willing  to  vote  for 
such  a  resolution  as  I  supposed  that  to  be, 
it  was  not  because  I  have  any  personal  anx- 
iety about  the  matter,  but  because  I  was 
willing  to  accommodate  my  friends  and  the 
people  of  southern  Minnesota.  If  they  wish 
to  vote  upon  a  proposition  of  that  kind,  I  was 
willing  to  afford  them  the  opportunity ;  and 
the  only  privilege  which  I  thought  ought  to  be 
extended  to  them  in  this  case,  was  that  they 
should  vote  upon  what  was  substantially,  a 
memorial  to  Congress,  asking  them  to  change 
the  boundaries.  If  Congress  saw  fit  to  grant 
the  request,  then  the  propriety  of  having  that 
change  put  into  the  Constitution  must  be 
manifest.  I  supposed  that  that  was  all  the 
resolution  contemplated,  but  when  I  came  to 


see  it  in  print,  I  saw  immediately  that  a  dif- 
ferent idea  was  expressed  by  it ;  that  it  was  to 
become  part  of  the  Constitution  before  it  went 
to  Congress.  It  seems  to  me  that  that  would 
be  undoing  what  we  have  before  done.  That 
I  did  not  propose  to  do.  Now  I  do  not  claim 
to  have  any  great  powers  of  comprehension, 
and  I  admit  that  I  was  a  little  mistaken  in 
that  respect.  Now  I  would  like  to  see  the 
resolution  printed  before  I  vote  upon  it,  or  be- 
fore the  Convention  take  any  action  upon  it. 
It  seems  to  me  that  a  matter  of  so  much  im- 
portance as  this  ought  not  to  be  acted  upon 
with  precipitation,  and  it  seems  to  me  that  the 
advocates  of  this  resolution,  who  feel  so  deep 
an  interest  in  it,  are  injuring  their  cause  by 
too  great  precipitation.  I  certainly  am  not 
willing  to  go  to  the  extent  they  desire.  If 
they  wish  to  hasten  the  thing  through,  let 
them  go  ahead,  but  do  not  blame  us  for  not 
voting  for  it.  For  one  I  want  to  see  the  reso- 
lution printed,  and  I  want  members  to  see  it 
in  print.  When  gentlemen  say  that  I  am  en- 
deavoring too  kill  this  resolution  by  indirect 
means,  they  charge  that  which  is  false.  I  am 
willing  that  the  people  should  have  a  chance 
to  vote  upon  this  question,  that  it  may  be 
submitted  to  Congress,  and  if  Congress  sees 
fit  to  respect  the  wishes  of  the  people  in  that 
respect,  they  may  do  so  and  incorporate  it 
into  the  Constitution,  and  not  before.  That 
is  as  far  as  I  desire  to  go.  I  think  there  will 
be  time  enough  to  print  and  lay  this  resolution 
before  the  Convention.  I  do  not  think  we 
shall  adjourn  under  three  or  four  days,  to  say 
the  least. 

Mr.  HUDSON.  As  an  individual  member 
of  the  Convention,  I  am  not  anxious  to  ex- 
tend to  the  people  the  privilege  of  saying 
whether  they  will  have  any  other  State  than 
that  proposed  to  us  by  Congress.  Certain 
gentlemen  have  manifested  a  great  deal  of 
feeling  upon  this  subject,  and  I  have  expressed 
my  willingness  to  aid  and  assist  them,  pro- 
vided always  that  it  could  be  done  in  a  way, 
not  in  any  wise  to  embarrass  our  application 
for  admission  into  the  Union.  I  do  not  know 
but  I  may  be  very  dull  of  comprehension, 
but  it  is  not  by  any  means  clear  to  my  mind 
that  we  can  say  to  Congress  that  we  accept 
of  their  proposal  contained  in  the  Enabling 
Act,  and  at  the  same  lime  a  proposition  for 
something  different,     It  looks  to  me  very 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Wedsesdat.  August  12. 


447 


I 


much  like  the  case  of  the  man  who  offered  a 
thousand  dollars  to  any  person  who  was  per- 
fectly contented  with  his  condition.  Presently 
a  claim  was  made  for  the  money.  "Are  you 
contented '? "  "  Certainly  I  am."  "  "Well  then 
what  do  you  want  of  the  thousand  dollars?" 
If  we  are  willing  to  accept  of  the  Une  proposed 
by  Congress,  Congress  may  well  ask  us  what 
we  want  of  a  different  line.  I  beheve  it  is 
the  right  of  Congress  to  dispose  of  the  Terri' 
ries  as  she  thinks  best,  and  it  is  their  partic- 
ular business  so  to  cut  them  up  as  will  be  best 
for  the  country  at  large.  They  have  had  an 
eye  to  the  formation  of  other  States,  in  car- 
ving out  this  particular  State  of  Minnesota. 

Now  I  say  it  must  be  perfectly  clear  to  my 
mind  that  we  are  not  taking  any  course  which 
Avill  embaiTass  us,  or  our  Constitution,  before 
I  can  vote  for  this  resolution.  I  am  satisfied 
in  my  own  mind  that  it  will  have  no  other 
effect  than  to  tickle  the  constituents  of  cer- 
tain gentlemen,  for  I  am  satisfied  that  a  ma- 
jority of  the  people  of  the  Territory  are  op- 
posed to  it,  and  that  Congress  would  grant 
no  such  request. 

Mr.  DAVIS.  I  do  not  believe  we  can  get 
this  resolution  printed  in  time  to  act  upon  it 
before  we  adjourn,  and  I  believe  it  is  the  in- 
tention of  some  gentlemen  to  kill  it  by  delay, 
in  that  way. 

The  question  was  then  taken  on  the  motion 
to  reconsider  the  vote  by  which  the  Conven- 
tion refused  to  order  the  resolution  printed, 
and  it  was  lost. 

Mr.  FOSTER.  I  now  offer  the  following 
substitute  for  the  first  part  of  the  resolution : 

"  The  people  are  hereby  authorized  to  vote  on 
a  separate  ballot,  for  such  boundary  Ime  for  the 
State  of  Minnesota  as  they  shall  desire ;  and  if  a 
majority  of  all  the  votes  cast  for  and  against  the 
Constitution  shall  be  in  favor  of  a  different  boun- 
dary line  from  that  prescribed  in  the  first  article 
of  this  Constitution,  the  said  vote  on  being  certi- 
fied by  the  Governor  of  the  State  to  both  Houses 
of  Congress,  shall  be  the  memorial  of  the  people 
of  Minnesota  asking  Congress  to  modify  the  boun- 
dary line  of  Minnesota  in  the  manner  and  form 'in- 
dicated as  aforesaid  by  the  votes  of  a  majority  of 
the  people." 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  I  wish  to  inquire  if 
that  is  not  precisely,  or  substantially  the  sub- 
stitute which  was  offered  yesterday  for  this 
same  resolution,  and  if  so,  whether  it  is  not 
out  of  order  to  offer  the  same  amendment  a 
second  time  ? 


The  PRESIDENT.  The  Chair's  recollec- 
tion is  that  it  was  offered  in  committee  of  the 
Whole,  but  that  it  has  never  been  offered  in 
Convention. 

Mr.  FOSTER.     That  is  the  fact. 

The  PRESIDENT.     It  is  then  in  order. 

Mr.  KING.  I  move  to  lay  that  substitute 
on  the  table. 

Mr.  FOSTER  called  for  the  yeas  and  nays. 

The  yeas  and  nays  were  ordered,  and  the 
question  being  taken  it  was  decided  in  the 
affirmative,  yeas  thirty-two,  and  nays  nine- 
teen, as  follows : 

Teas. — Messrs.  Aldrich,  Anderson,  Baldwin, 
Bartholomew,  Billings,  BoUes,  Butler,  Colburn, 
Coggswell,  Coe,  Coombs,  Davis,  Duley,  Dicker- 
son,  Hayden,  Harding,  Hudson,  King,  Lowe,  Man- 
tor,  McCann,  McKune,  McClure,  Mills,  Perkins, 
Peckham,  Bobbins,  Secombe,  Thompson,  Watson, 
Wilson,  and  the  President. — 32. 

Xays. — Messrs.  Bates,  Cederstam,  Eschlie, 
Foster,  Folsom,  Galbraith,  Gerrish,  Hall,  Hanson, 
Lyle,  Messer,  Morgan,  North,  Phelps,  Putnam, 
Russell,  Stannard,  Vaughn,  Walker,  and  Wi- 
nell.— 20. 

So  the  substitute  was  laid  on  the  table. 

Mr.  THOMPSON.  I  move  that  the  reso- 
lution be  laid  on  the  table  and  made  the  spe- 
cial order  for  to-morrow  afternoon. 

Mr.  COGGSAVELL.  It  will  be  recollected 
by  members  of  this  Convention  that  we  have 
voted  to  adjourn  on  Saturday  next.  Some- 
thing has  been  said  here  in  regard  to  the  com- 
mittee of  Conference  which  is  in  anticipation 
of  being  appointed  by  the  Convention  which 
is  now  sitting  in  the  other  end  of  the  Capitol, 
and  inasmuch  as  reference  has  been  made  to 
that  subject  I  wish  to  say  a  few  words.  Now 
if  a  committee  of  that  character  is  appointed 
and  that  committee  should  meet  the  commit- 
tee we  are  about  to  appoint,  I  suppose  it  is 
generally  understood  that  the  committee 
which  is  appointed  upon  our  part  should  have 
all  the  substantial  parts  and  portions  of  our 
Constitution  ready  to  be  taken  into  consider- 
ation by  that  joint  committee ;  that  is  to  say, 
"  go-betweens  "  who  have  had  conversations 
with  me  on  the  subject,  have  stated  that  it 
was  wisdom  that  our  committee  should  have, 
at  the  time  they  meet  the  other  committee  to 
take  into  consideration  the  matters  referred 
to  them,  all  the  parts  and  portions  of  our 
Constitution.  Well  then  if  that  is  necessary, 
I  desire  that  they  shall  have  this  particultff 
subject  matter  before  them,  and  that  they 


448 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Wednesday,  August  12. 


should  have  the  negro  suffrage  subject,  and 
all  other  subjects  which  it  is  proper  to  submit 
to  the  people  in  any  way  shape  or  manner. 
And  if  a  committee  of  that  character  is  ap- 
pointed by  that  body,  in  my  judgment  it  will 
be  appointed  to  day ;  and  if  it  is  appointed 
to-day,  as  a  matter  of  course,  the  two  Com- 
mittees can  meet  to-morrow ;  and  if  they  are 
to  meet  at  all,  it  does  seem  exceedingly  de- 
sirable that  they  should  meet  as  soon  as  that 
time.  Now  if  we  postpone  this  resolution 
until  to-morrow,  as  a  matter  of  course  that 
committee  cannot  have  it  to  present  to  the 
other  committee.  It  seems  to  me  that  we 
can  dispose  of  this  matter  now  just  as  well  as 
at  at  any  other  time ;  and  that  there  are  other 
matters  which  should  be  taken  up,  and  as 
soon  as  they  are  taken  up,  that  they  should 
be  disposed  of.  If  we  are  going  to  adjourn 
when  we  have  proposed,  we  should  do  some 
business  before  that  time.  But  if  we  go  on 
in  this  way,  when  Saturday  comes  around, 
we  shall  have  as  much  business  before  us  as 
we  have  to-day. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  hope  the  motion  will 
not  prevail,  though  not  particularly  for  the 
reasons  offered  by  the  gentleman  from  Steele 
county. 

Mr.  MORGAN.  I  rise  to  a  question  of 
order.  This  is  a  motion  to  lay  upon  the  table 
and  is  not  debatable. 

The  PRESIDENT.  The  Chair  considers 
the  point  of  order  well  taken,  and  must  rule 
that  debate  is  out  of  order. 

Mr.  WILSON.  Is  not  a  motion  to  lay 
upon  the  table  until  a  specific  time,  deba- 
table? 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  was  about  to  suggest 
that  the  motion  was  not  a  simple  motion  to 
lay  upon  the  table. 

The  PRESIDENT.  In  the  opinion  of  the 
Chair  a  motion  to  lay  a  resolution  on  the  table 
and  make  it  a  special  order  for  a  particular 
time  would  be  debatable ;  but  a  simple  mo- 
tion to  lay  upon  the  table  would  not  be. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  was  about  to  say  that  I 
did  not  desire  action  upon  this  matter  for  the 
same  reason  as  that  suggested  by  the  gentleman 
from  Steele  county,  for  I  am  opposed  to  pre- 
dicating any  action  in  this  Convention  upon 
any  anticipated  action  of  any  committees 
whatever.  I  think  the  duty  of  this  Conven- 
tion is  to  go  on  with  its  work  assiduously  and 


as  fast  as  possible.  But  I  am  opposed  to 
laying  this  resolution  upon  the  table  for  the 
reason  that  I  believe  we  are  just  as  well  pre- 
pared to  take  action  upon  it  to-day  as  we 
shall  be  to-morrow.  We  spent  nearly  all  day 
yesterday  upon  it,  and  all  of  this  day  thus 
far ;  and  I  believe  we  ought  to  be  prepared  to 
vote  upon  it  now,  if  we  ever  are.  I  see  nj) 
necessity  for  delay. 

Mr.  NORTH.  I  have  been  in  favor  of  de- 
ferring this  matter  to  a  future  time,  but  I  see 
that  the  friends  of  the  resolution  are  anxious 
to  have  it  brought  to  a  vote  now.  If  they 
do  wish  to  press  it  to  a  vote  I  shall  be  obliged 
to  vote  against  it. 

Mr.  DAVIS.  I  rise  to  deny  the  assertion 
of  the  gentleman.  As  one  of  the  friends  of 
the  resolution,  I  do  not  wish  to  press  it  to  a 
vote  at  the  present  time.  I  am  very  anxious 
that  this  resolution  should  prevail,  for  the 
reason  that  I  believe  that  the  future  of  our 
State  depends  in  a  great  measure  upon  the 
passage  of  this  resolution.  I  hope  gentlemen 
will  not  get  their  ire  up  and  vote  against  it  be- 
cause their  petty  motion,  to  put  it  off  to  a 
particular  day,  cannot  pass.  I  am  willing, 
myself  to  have  it  made  a  special  order  for  to- 
morrow. I  want  gentlemen  to  understand 
the  resolution  they  are  called  to  vote  upon  it, 
because  I  believe  there  are  some  here,  who,  if 
they  did  understand  it  as  amended  this  morn- 
ing by  my  friend,  Mr.  Coggswell,  would  vote 
for  it.  I  am  satisfied  that  the  resolution  as 
amended  by  myself  yesterday,  is  not  exactly 
as  I  intended  to  have  it. 

Mr.  NORTH.  I  wish  simply  to  correct 
the  gentleman.  If  he  has  the  idea  that  we 
have  our  ire  up  he  is  mistaken.  But  when  I 
understand  from  a  reliable  source  that  it  is 
not  expected  to  carry  this  resolution,  and  that 
the  object  is  to  get  it  off  our  hands,  I  was 
disposed  to  gratify  the  friends  of  the  resolu- 
tion in  that  manner. 

Mr.  DAVIS.  I  must  correct  the  gentleman 
again.  I  deny  that  my  object  is  to  press  this 
matter  to  a  vote.  I  hope  it  will  be  carried, 
and  I  believe  it  will  be.  At  any  rate  I  know 
that  a  sufficient  number  of  delegates  to  this 
Convention  have  ofiered  to  support  the  reso- 
lution if  brought  up  in  a  manner  and  shape 
not  objectionable,  to  carry  it. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  The  position  of  the  gen- 
tleman from  Rice  County  (Mr.  Nokth)  is 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Wedxesdat,  August  12. 


449 


rather  an  acute  one.  He  says  he  wiU  vote 
against  it  now,  but  he  does  not  intimate 
that  he  will  vote  for  it  to-morrovr.  "We  can 
decide  it  now  as  well  as  we  can  to-morrow,  or 
at  any  other  time.  Every  man  is  prepared  to 
vote  upon  it,  and  no  man  will  say  that  the  gen- 
tleman from  Rice  Coimty  will  vote  for  it,  if 
it  is  postponed  until  to-morrow. 

Mr.  WILSON.  I  move  the  previous  ques- 
tion. 

The  previous  question  was  seconded  and 
the  main  question  ordered  to  be  put. 

The  question  recurring  upon  the  motion  to 
lay  the  resolution  on  the  table  and  make  it  the 
special  order  for  to-morrow. 

Mr.  WILSON  said :  I  rise  to  a  point  of 
order.  When  the  main  question  is  ordered 
does  it  not  bring  us  to  a  vote  upon  the  reso- 
lution itself,  and  can  an  incidental  motion  of 
that  kind  come  up  ? 

The  PRESIDENT.  It  is  the  opinion  of  the 
Chair  that  the  motion  to  postpone  is  the  main 
question.  If  an  amendment  were  pending 
when  the  previous  question  was  ordered,  the 
Convention  would  first  be  brought  to  vote 
upon  the  amendment  and  then  upon  the  res- 
olution itself.  The  motion  before  the  Con- 
vention, when  the  previous  question  was  or- 
dered, was  the  motion  to  lay  upon  the  table. 
And  the  Convention  is  brought  to  a  vote  upon 
that  in  the  first  instance,  and  then  upon  the 
passage  of  the  resolution. 

Mr.  WILSON.  My  point  was  that  this 
motion  to  lay  upon  the  table,  &c.,  is  an  inci- 
dental motion  which  would  be  cut  ofif  by  the 
previous  question. 

Mr.  LOWE.  I  rise  to  a  point  of  order. 
Unless  the  gentleman  appeals  from  the  de- 
cision of  the  Chair,  he  is  out  of  order. 

Mr.  WILSON.  I  do  not  wish  to  appeal 
firom  the  decision  of  the  Chair.  The  question 
is  not  of  sufficient  importance. 

The  PRESIDENT.  Questions  of  order 
must  be  decided  without  debate. 

Mr.  BATES  called  for  the  yeas  and  nays 
upon  the  motion  to  lay  the  resolution  on  the 
table,  and  make  it  the  special  order. 

The  yeas  and  nays  were  refused. 

The  question  was  then  taken,  and  it  was  de- 
cided in  the  affirmative. 

So  the  resolution  was  laid  upon  the  table 
and  made  the  special  order  for  to-morrow  af- 
ternoon. 
57 


Mr.  BOBBINS,  fi-om  the  committee  on  In- 
ternal Improvements  made  the  following  re- 
port, which  was  read  a  first  and  second  time 
and  laid  upon  the  table  to  be  printed,  viz  : 

"Internal  improvements  shall  forever  be  en- 
couraged by  the  Legislature  of  this  State ;  but  in 
no  case  shall  the  credit  of  the  State  be  pledged  fcr 
anv  object  of  internal  improvements,  nor  shall  the 
Legislature  in  any  case  create  or  incur  a  State 
debt  for  this  object,  without  at  the  same  time  pro- 
viding means  for  the  payment  of  the  interest  and 
final  liquidation  of  the  same." 

The  Convention  then  took  a  recess  until 
half  past  two  o'clock. 

AFTERNOON  SESSION. 

The  Convention  reassembled  at  half  past 
two  o'clock. 

PAYMENT  OF  MEMBEBS. 

Mr.  MANTOR  offered  the  foUowing  reso- 
lution : 

"  Sesolved,  That  the  certificates  of  mileage, 
signed  by  the  President  and  attested  by  the  Sec- 
retary, be  issued  to  each  member  of  this  Consti- 
tutional Convention,  and  that  the  Territorial  Trea- 
surer be  authorized  to  pay  the  same  out  of  the 
fund  appropriated  by  law  for  defraying  the  expen- 
ses of  this  Convention;  and  on  production  of  said 
certificates  by  the  said  Treasurer,  the  amount  of 
the  same  shall  be  allowed  to  him  as  a  credit  against 
any  moneys  in  his  hands,  appropriated  as  aforesaid 
on  the  final  adjustment  of  his  accounts  in  relation 
to  the  said  fund." 

Mr.  M.  said :  Under  our  rules,  if  this  res- 
olution gives  rise  to  debate,  it  lies  over  one 
day.  I  really  hope  the  Convention  will  sus- 
pend its  rules  so  far  as  to  allow  this  resoultion 
to  be  considered  and  acted  upon  at  this  time. 
For  my  own  part,  I  think  I  am  quite  modest 
in  offering  a  resolution  to  pay  members  their 
mileage,  without  the  per  diem.  It  seems  to 
be  understood  that  this  Convention  is  "  short" 
— short,  I  mean  in  pocket.  I  see,  that  by  a 
resolution  adopted  yesterday,  we  are  to  ad- 
journ on  Saturday  next,  and  I  offer  this  reso- 
lution to  relieve  us  from  the  difficulty  under 
which  we  are  laboring  (laughter.)  If  we 
adopt  the  resolution  it  will  be  expediting  so 
much  of  the  business  of  the  Convention. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  think  the  resolution  is 
unnecessary.  An  act  was  passed  by  the 
Territorial  Legislature,  at  its  last  extra  ses- 
sion, which  covers  this  whole  ground  fully, 
and  if  we  can  by  any  means  have  the  order 
of  this  Convention  carried  ,out,^at  any  time 


450 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Wednesday,  August  12. 


between  the  present  and  the  time  when  we 
shall  adjourn,  it  will  be  discovered  that  full 
provision  has  been  made  for  the  payment  of 
the  per  diem  and  mUeage  of  members.  It 
will  be  remembered  that  at  an  early  day  of 
our  session,  the  Convention  ordered  the 
printing  of  two  hundred  copies  of  that  act. 
It  has  not  been  done. 

The  PKESIDENT.  As  the  resolution  has 
given  rise  to  debate,  it  will  lie  over,  under  the 
rules  one  day. 

EXPENSES  OF  THE  CONVENTION. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  As  this  matter  of  the  ex- 
penses of  the  Convention  has  come  up,  I  move 
that  the  Secretary  be  instructed  to  procure  the 
execution  forthwith  of  the  order  of  the  Conven- 
tion, made  at  an  early  day  of  its  session,  for  the 
printing  of  two  hundred  copies  of  the  act  of 
the  Legislature  in  regard  to  the  expenses  of 
the  Constitutional  Convention. 

The  PRESIDENT.  The  Secretary  in- 
forms the  Chair  that  he  has  performed  his 
duty,  by  furnishing  the  printer  with  a  copy 
of  the  order,  and  requesting  him  to  furnish 
the  printing  therein  ordered. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  would  inquire  if  that 
has  been  done  within  a  short  time  ? 

The  PRESIDENT.  It  was  done  at  the 
time  of  the  passage  of  the  order,  and  the  Sec- 
retary has  spoken  to  the  printer  about  it 
several  times  since. 

The  Chair  is  further  informed  that  it  was 
partly  set  up  in  the  printing  oflBce,  but  that 
the  act  was  then  lost,  and  the  Secretary  was 
unable  to  get  another  copy. 

Mr.  WILSON.  I  hope  that  by  some 
means  another  copy  may  be  procured  and 
printed.  I  would  like  to  see  it  myself,  and 
probably  a  great  many  others  desire  the  same 
thing. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  would  inquire  what 
became  of  the  resolution  I  offered  at  an  early 
part  of  the  sesion  to  procure  a  copy  of  that 
act  ?    It  was  offered,  but  not  disposed  of 

Mr.  CLEGHORN.  I  have  always  under- 
stood that  this  Convention  was  assembled, 
and  was  acting  under  the  Enabling  Act  of 
Congress,  and  not  under  the  Territorial  act. 
I  consider  that  we  have  repudiated  that  act. 

Mr.  FOSTER.  In  regard  to  that  matter,  I 
think  it  is  clear  that  the  Territory  has  the 
right  to  pay  us  if  it  chooses.    It  did  appro- 


priate money  to  pay  the  expenses  of  this 
Convention.  If  there  is  anything  in  it  which 
contravenes  the  Enabling  Act,  it  is  of  no 
force.  But  I  am  decidedly  in  favor  of  getting 
a  copy  of  that  act,  to  see  if  an  appropriation 
has  been  made  to  pay  us.  I  understand 
there  has  been. 

The  PRESIDENT.  The  Secretary  informs 
the  Chair  that  the  re^lution  offered  by  the 
gentleman  from  Hennepin  (Mr.  Secombe), 
relative  to  the  appointment  of  a  special  com- 
mittee, to  procure  a  certified  copy  of  the 
the  Territorial  act,  is  upon  the  table. 

Mr.  HARDING.  I  move  that  it  be  taken 
from  the  table  and  considered  at  this  time. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to. 

The  resolution  was  then  read  as  follows : 

"Mesolved,  That  a  special  committee  of  three 
be  appointed  to  procure  from  the  Secretary  of  this 
Territory  a  certified  copy  of  an  act  passed  at  an 
extra  session  of  the  Legislative  Assembly,  entitled 
an  '  Act  to  provide  for  the  payment  of  the  expen- 
ses of  the  Convention  to  form  a  Constitution  and 
State  Government  for  the  State  of  Minnesota,  in 
accordance  with  an  Act  of  Congress,  approved 
March  third,  1857.'" 

Mr.  MANTOR.  Before  the  vote  is  taken 
upon  the  passage  of  that  resolution,  I  would 
like  to  inquire  of  the  gentleman  who  offered 
the  resolution,  what  authority  the  Legislature 
of  the  Territory  had  to  pass  any  act  in 
reference  to  the  government,  or  the  expenses 
of  this  Convention  ? 

Mr.  STANNARD.  I  think  the  gentleman 
can  be  [answered  very  easily.  As  a  general 
rule,  it  is  not  well  for  any  people  to  pay  them- 
selves out  of  the  public  crib,  and  it  was 
thought  best  that  the  Legislature  should  make 
an  appropriation  to  pay  the  expenses  of  this 
Convention,  if  Congress  should  not. 

The  resolution  was  adopted. 

The  PRESIDENT  thereupon  appointed  as 
such  committee,  Messrs.  Seco.mbe,  Davis  and 
McKuNE. 

Mr.  NORTH  moved  at  three  o'clock,  that 
the  Convention  adjourn. 

Mr.  WILSON.  Is  there  no  business  we 
can  do  this  afternoon. 

Mr.  NORTH.  If  there  is,!  wiU  withdraw 
the  motion. 

Mr.  BILIilNGS.  There  is  the  report  of  the 
committee  upon  the  State  Seal  and  Coat  of 
Arms  lying  on  the  table  ready  to  be  acted  on. 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Wedxesdat,  August.  12. 


451 


Mr.  "WILSON.  If  there  is  any  business 
we  can  do,  I  want  to  go  on  with  it ;  if  not,  I 
am  anxious  to  adjourn.  I  hope  our  printer 
will  get  our  engrossed  reports  returned  from 
the  printer  as  fast  as  possible.  Can  the 
Clerk  inform  us  how  many  committees  have 
yet  to  report  ? 

The  PRESIDENT.  The  Chair  is  informed 
that  all  the  committees  have  reported,  except 
the  committee  upon  Miscellaneous  Provisions, 
and  the  committee  on  the  Schedule. 

Mr.  WILSON.  I  would  further  inquire 
whether  all  the  reports  have  been  so  fer  con- 
sidered as  to  be  referred  to  the  committee  on 
Engrossment  ? 

The  PRESIDENT.  Jill  except  those  which 
have  not  been  printed,  and  the  report  of  the 
committee  upon  the  Seal  and  Coat  of  Arms. 

Mr.  WILSON.  I  would  inquire  if  we  have 
not  a  committee  upon  Printing,  who  should 
see  to  getting  those  reports  from  the  printer. 

Mr.  BILLINGS.  We  have  such  a  com- 
mittee, and  they  have  stood  long  enough. 
(Laughter)  I  move  that  a  committee  of 
three  be  appointed  to  wait  upon  the  gentle- 
men who  have  charge  of  our  printing,  and 
report  as  soon  as  possible  what  the  probabihty 
is  of  our  being  furnished  with  the  reports 
now  in  their  hands. 

The  motion  was  not  agreed  to. 

SPECIAL   ACT   OF   THE    LEGISLATURE. 

Mr.  SECOMBE,  from  the  special  committee 
appointed  to  procure  a  copy  of  the  act  of  the 
special  session  of  the  Legislature,  to  provide 
for  the  payment  of  the  expenses  of  the  Con- 
stitutional Convention,  reported  that  the 
committee  had  attended  to  that  duty,  and 
presented  the  following  certified  copy  of  that 
act. 

"  AN  ACT  to  provide  for  the  payment  of  the  Ex- 
penses of  the  Convention  to  form  a  Constitution 
tor  the  State  of  Minnesota,  in  accordance  with 
an  Act  of  Congress,  approved  March  3,  1857. 

"  JSe  it  enacted  by  the  Legislative  Assembly  of  the 

Territory  of  Minnesota : 

"  Sec.  1.  That  on  the  first  Monday  of  June 
next,  the  qualified  electors  of  the  Territory  of 
Minnesota,  shall  assemble  at  their  respective  pla- 
ces appointed  by  law  for  the  opening  of  the  polls, 
and  shall  there  proceed  to  elect  by  ballot  certain 
delegates  for  a  Convention  to  form  a  Constitution 
and  State  Government  for  this  Territory. 

"  Sec.  2.  Every  Council  District  in  this  Terri- 
tory shall  elect  two  delegates  for  every  councillor 


it  may  be  entitled  to  in  the  Legislative  Council, 
and  every  Representative  District  shall  elect  two 
delegates  for  every  member  they  may  be  entitled 
to  in  the  House  of  Representatives:  JFravided, 
That  whenever  any  district  has  been  subdivided 
in  order  to  elect  their  reprtsentative  in  the  Legis- 
lative Assembly,  the  same  subdivision  shall  govern 
in  the  election  of  delegates  to  the  Constitutional 
Convention. 

"  Sec.  3.  That  there  shall  be  appropriated  out 
of  any  money  in  the  Territorial  Treasury,  unap- 
propriated, for  mileage  and  per  diem  of  members, 
oflBcers,  and  Secretaries,  for  printing,  and  for  sta- 
tionery, the  sum  of  thirty  thousand  dollars. 

"  Sec.  4.  That  the  members,  officers,  and  Sec- 
retaries of  said  Convention,  shall  be  entitled  to 
the  same  mileage  and  per  diem,  as  the  members  of 
the  Legislative  Assembly:  Provided,  That  fhe 
presiding  oflBcer  shall  be  entitled  to  three  dollars 
per  day  extra. 

"Sec.  5.  The  compensation  herein  provided 
for  the  members,  oflScers,  and  Secretaries,  shall  be 
certified  by  the  presiding  ofiicer,  and  attested,  by 
the  Secretary,  as  well  as  all  claims  for  stationery, 
printing,  and  all  other  incidental  expenses ;  which 
said  certificates,  when  so  certified,  shall  be  suffi- 
cient evidence  to  the  Territorial  Treasurer  of  each 
persons  claim.  • 

"Sec.  6.  The  qualifications  of  delegates  to  the 
Constitutional  Convention  shall  be  the  same  as  the 
qualifications  for  members  of  the  House  of  Repre- 
sentatives of  the  Legislative  Assembly. 

"  Sec.  7.  This  Act  shall  be  in  force  from  and 
after  its  passage. 

"J.  W.  FURBER, 
"Speaker  House  of  Rep's. 
"JoHX  B.  Brisbix, 
"  President  Council. 

"Approved  May  22,  1857. 

"  S.  MEDARY,  Governor. 
"  I  certify  that  the  foregoing  is  a  correct  copy  of 
the  '  Act,  to  provide  for  the  payment  of  the  ex- 
'  penses  of  the  Convention  to  form  a  Constitution 
for  the  State  of  Minnesota  in  accordance  with  an 
Act  of  Congress  approved  March  3,  1857.' 
"In  testimony  whereof,  I  have  hereunto  set  my 
hand  and  affixed  the  Great  i^eal  of  the 
[seal.]    Territory  of  Minnesota,  this  14th  day 
of  July,  A.  D.  1857. 

"  Chas.  L.  Chase,  Sec'y  of  M.  T." 
On  motion  of  Mr.  BATES,  the  report  was 
accepted  and  the  committee  discharged. 
On  motion  of  Mr.  MORGAN— 

"  Ordered,  That  the  report  be  laid  upon  the  table 
and  printed." 

And  then,  on  motion  of  Mr.  NORTH,  (at 
three  o'clock  and  fifteen  minutes,)  the  Con- 
vention adjourned. 


452 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Thuesday,  August  13. 


TWENTY-EIGHTH  DAY. 

Thubsday,  August  13th,  1857. 
The  Convention  met  at  nine  o'clock  A,  M. 
In  the  absence  of  the  President,  on  motion 
of  Mr.  KING,  Mr.  McClube  was  appointed 
President  pro  tempore. 
Prayer  by  the  Rev.  Mr.  Mattocks. 
The  journal  of  yesterday  was  read  and  ap- 
proved. 

pebsonal  explanation. 

Mr.  HAYDEN.  Mr.  Pbesident  :  I  rise  to 
a  question  of  privilege.  I  have  been  absent, 
and  coming  again  to  my  desk,  I  find  myself 
reported  as  follows,  in  the  Daily  Minnesotian 
of  Saturday: 

"  Mr.  Hatden  proposed  to  amend  the  substitute, 
by  striking  out  from  the  first  section,  in  the  first 
line,  the  words,  '  white  male  inhabitant,'  and  in- 
serting these  words :  '  citizen  of  the  United  States.' 

"  The  President  considered  this  amendment  out 
of  order,  as  embracing  the  same  matter  which  the 
Convention  rejected  yesterday,  but  withheld  the 
decision." 

Thus  putting  me  before  the  public  as  pre- 
senting that  motion  out  of  order,  and  speaking 
to  it  out  of  order.  I  wish  to  correct  this — 
believing  it  to  be  my  privilege  and  duty. 

In  the  first  place  I  refer  to  our  Rules.  In 
Rule  29,  I  read :  "  but  a  motion  to  strike  out 
"  being  lost,  shall  neither  preclude  amend- 
"  ment,  nor  a  motion  to  strike  out  and  insert." 
It  is  true,  it  is  also  said  here,  that  Jefferson's 
Manual  shall  be  our  guide  where  the  Rules 
do  not  apply.  But  if  that  Rule  is  not  plain 
and  applicable  to  the  case,  I  confess  I  do  not 
understand  language. 

In  the  second  place,  my  motion  to  amend, 
was  to  amend  the  substitute  which  was  not 
adopted.  If  it  had  been  the  same  amend- 
ment it  would  have  been  in  order.  To  pre- 
sent me  in  that  light  before  the  public  I  feel 
is  wrong;  and  if  that  is  the  manner  of  the 
decision,  or  if  it  was  so  intended  by  the  Chair, 
I  consider  that  it  is  an  outrage  upon  my 
rights;  that  it  is  contrary  to  parliamentary 
usage;  and  I  wish  to  have  this  matter  set 
right.  1  am  aware  that  the  editors  of  this 
paper  have  the  right  to  do  as  they  please,  in 
regard  to  publishing  these  matters — and  in 
regard  to  withholding  the  remarks  on  one 
side,  and  publishing  them  on  the  other  side  ; 
yet  that  also  looks  to  me  as  a  matter  of  injus- 
tice. 


BOUNDAEY     LINE. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  I  hold  in  my  hand, 
Mr.  Pbesident,  a  communication  which  is  in 
the  nature  of  a  memorial  or  petition,  which  I 
received  this  morning,  in  reference  to  the 
boundary  question  ;  and  also  the  proceedings 
of  a  public  meeting  held  at  St.  Peter  on  the 
third  instant ;  which  I  desire  may  be  read. 

The  letter  was  then  read  as  follows  : 

"  St.  Peter,  Aug.  8th,  1857. 
"  To  tlie  Members  of  the  Constitutional  Convention 

at  St.  Paul: 

"  Gentlemen, — In  accordance  with  the  instruc- 
tions of  a  public  meeting  of  the  Republicans  of  this 
vicinity,  on  the  evening  of  the  third  instant,  at 
which  H.  A.  Swift,  Esq.,  and  myself  were  ap- 
pointed a  committee  for  the  purpose,  (and  Mr. 
Swift  being  absent,  and  I  unable  to  attend  in  per- 
son,) I  herewith  transmit  to  you  the  resolutions 
and  proceedings  of  said  meeting,  as  indicative  of 
the  desire  of  the  citizens  in  this  region  upon  a 
question  in  which,  at  this  time,  the  deepest  interest 
is  felt  by  all.     I  refer  to  the  Boundary  Line. 

"And,  gentlemen,  as  one  feeling  a  deep  interest 
in  your  proceedings  and  success,  I  will,  I  trust,  be 
pardoned  for  accompanying  these  resolutions  with 
a  few  suggestions. 

"1st.  As  all  are  aware,  we  have  a  desperate  foe 
to  contend  with.  No  means  will  be  left  untried  for 
our  defeat.  Hence  that  party  which  shows  the 
most  fairness,  who  are  willing  to  give  the  people  a 
full  and  fair  opportunity  to  express  their  wishes, 
will  stand  the  best  before  them. 

"  2d.  As  a  body,  the  Republicans  are  decidedly 
in  favor  of  an  Fast  and  West  Line — many  prefer- 
ing  that  we  remain  out  of  the  Union  rather  than 
go  in  with  a  difl'erent  boundary. 

"3d.  The  Republican  party  is  identified  with 
the  movement  in  favor  of  that  line — nearly  all  hav- 
ing voted  for  and  sustained  the  memorial  to  Con- 
gress passed  last  winter.  We  were  told  by  our 
leaders  that  it  was  vital  to  our  interests  as  a  party, 
and  as  a  State,  that  we  should  have  that  line. 

"4th.  We  supported  them  in  that  position,  and 
many  of  them  were  re-elected  as  delegates  to  this 
Convention  almost  solely  upon  that  ground.  We 
went  into  our  District  Convention  with  that  as  an* 
issue,  and  no  man  was  permitted  to  be  nominated 
who  was  not  known  to  be  sound  upon  that  question. 

"  5th.  Having  thus  identified  ourselves  with 
this  movement,  and  that  too  with  the  advice  and 
under  the  control  of  our  leadmg  men,  many  of 
whom  arc  now  in  the  Convention ;  how  can  we 
abandon  it,  with  honor,  with  consistency,  or  with 
the  expectation  that  the  people  will  support  us 
in  it? 

"  6th.  What  reason  can  you  give  for  denying 
to  the  people  the  right  of  deciding  this  question 
for  themsdveif  The  fact  that  the  bogus  body  will 
adopt  the  North  and  South  line,  and  that  a  Demo- 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Tutbsdat,  Acgcst  13. 


453 


cratic  Congress  maj  favor  their  position  in  prefer- 
ence to  ours,  is  no  reason.  The  people  have  aright 
to  decide  this  question  first;  and  what  men  may 
think  about  our  chances  for  admission,  will  not  jus- 
tify you  in  refusing  them  this  right.  Because  a 
Democratic  Congress  wwy  do  wrong,  is  no  reason 
why  you  sJioxdd  do  wrong. 

"7th.  There  is  a  strong  feeling  in  the  minds  of 
the  people,  that  a  prominent  reason  why  many  of 
the  members  oppose  this  line,  and  are  so  anxious 
for  inmiediate  admission,  is  because  they  are  looh- 
ing  ahead  to  places  of  trust  and  profit ;  and  that  to 
be  kept  out  another  year,  would  be  to  lessen  and 
remove  the  chances  of  their  success.  Whether 
just  or  unjust,  such  suspicions  exist ;  and  if  the 
Convention  persist  in  enforcing  upon  them  a  line 
they  do  not  want ;  and  that,  too,  without  giving 
them  a  chance  to  express  their  wishes  in  the  mat- 
ter, that  suspicion  tcill  be  increased  to  such  an  ex- 
tent as  to  destroy  confidence  in  those  members, 
and  to  lead  the  people  to  believe  that  those  men 
seek  their  own  advancement  in  preference  to  the  good 
of  the  State  or  the  party.  Such  a  result  would  in- 
evitably lead  to  distrust,  dissatisfaction,  and  de- 
feat. Such  a  result  would  throw  our  young  State 
ijto  the  hands  of  our  enemies,  audit  would  require 
years  of  toil  to  recover  it. 

"8th.  It  is  more  Republican,  more  truly  Dem- 
ocratic— is  more  fair  and  honorable,  to  submit  this 
question  to  a  vote  of  the  people.  They  have  a 
right  to  demand  it,  and  they  exact  it.  If  a  major- 
ity decide  in  favor  of,  or  against  the  line,  that  does 
not  prevent  the  adoption  of  the  Constitution. 
With  that  question  left  to  the  people,  we  can 
heartily  support  your  action — without  that,  we  can- 
not. Indeed,  there  are  many  here  who  are  pledged 
to  oppose  any  Constitution — no  matter  how  good 
— which  does  not  give  them  an  East  and  West 
line,  or  submit  it  to  a  vote  of  the  people.  The 
Democrats  in  this  region  are  also  pledged  to  do 
the  same. 

"  Hoping,  and  trusting,  that  the  Convention  will 
take  truly  Republican  grounds  upon  this  question, 
by  submitting  it  to  a  vote  of  the  people,  regard- 
less of  what  our  opponents  may  do, 
"I  remain, 

"  Very  respectfully  yours, 
"  W.  C.  DODGE, 

"  Ch'n  Committee." 

Mr.  STANNARD.  I  hope  the  genUeman 
who  introduced  that  letter  will  let  it  lie  upon 
the  table,  rather  than  to  have  it  go  upon  our 
journals.  I  am  always  ready  to  hear  peti- 
tions and  letters,  but  I  do  not  want  a  letter, 
containing  such  a  system  of  pettifogging  as 
that  does,  to  go  upon  the  journal. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  For  the  information 
of  the  Convention  I  would  state  that  the  ad- 
dress just  read  was  an  address  drafted  by  a 
committee  appointed  by  a  meeting  held  at  St 


Peter  on  the  third  of  this  month,  and  it  is  the 
address  of  that  conunittee  which  was  appoint- 
ed to  present  in  person  to  this  Convention, 
such  remarks  as  they  thought  prudent  and 
proper. 

Mr.  MORGAN.  I  would  inqmre  if  what 
has  been  read  was  intended  as  an  address  to 
this  Conventioh? 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.     Yes,  sir.         ^ 

Mr.  NORTH.  I  have  no  doubt  that  it  was 
intended  as  a  respectful  address  to  this  Con- 
vention, and  I  hope  we  shall  hear  the  whole 
matter  through. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  I  would  ask  for  thfe 
reading  of  the  proceedings  of  the  meeting. 

The  proceedings  were  read  and  are  as  fol- 
lows— 

PCTBUC  MEETING  AT   ST.    PETER. 

"At  a  mass  meeting  of  the  Republicans  of  the 
county,  called  for  Monday  evening,  August  the 
3d,  the  meeting  was  called  to  order,  and  William 
L.  Couplin  was  elected  Chairman,  and  E.  E.  Pauld- 
ing Secretary  of  the  meeting.  Mr.  Horace  Austin 
was  called  upon  to  state  the  objects  of  the  meeting. 
On  motion  of  Mr.  Austin,  a  committee  of  three 
were  nominated  to  draft  resolutions,  consisting  of 
Messrs.  Dodge,  Hanscome  and  Pettijohn. 

Dr.  Ewing  was  called  out,  and  in  his  remarks 
recommending  the  establishment  of  an  East  and 
West  division  line,  was  enthusiastically  supported 
by  the  prevailing  sentiment  of  the  evening. 

Mr.  E.  E.  Paulding  was  called  for  and  addressed 
the  meeting  in  a  few  words,  urging  upon  Demo- 
crats, as  well  as  Republicans,  their  duty,  as  patri- 
otic citizens,  to  support  the  East  and  West  line, 
and  asking  them  to  accept  of  that,  and  none  other. 

Mr.  Ames,  in  a  short  and  telling  speech,  was 
anxious  for  the  success  of  Republican  principles, 
and  of  the  establishment  of  the  East  and  West  di- 
vision hue.  ^ 

The  report  of  the  committee  on  Resolutions  was 
then  read,  and  the  following  unanimously  adopt- 
ed:— 

"  Whxrras,  The  citizens  of  the  Territory  of  Min- 
nesota, 'by  an  Enabling  Act  of  Congress,'  are 
endeavoring  to  form  a  Constitution  by  which  thev 
may  be  admitted  into  the  Federal  Union  as  a  .*^tate, 
with  equal  rights  and  privileges  with  the  other  sister 
members  of  the  Contederacy  ;  and  Whereas,  un- 
der the  call  for  framing  a  Con.otitution  and  defining 
our  boundaries  as  a  future  state,  Delegates  have 
been  chosen  throughout  the  Territory,  and  are  now 
sitting  at  St.  Paul  for  the  ostensible  purpose  of 
framing  a  Constitution  which  shall  be  acceptable 
to  the  majority  of  the  people  of  the  Territory; 
and  Whereas,  The  present  crisis  in  our  political 
afiairs  demands  energetic  and  philanthropic  action 
on  the  part  of  the  people,  in  order  to  thwart  the 
despotic  machinations  of  the  Democratic  party, 
which,  in  our  opinion,  judging  from  former  pre- 
cedents, is  endeavoring  to  impose"upon  us  a  Con- 
stitution embracing  doctrines  and  sentiments  re- 
pugnant and  antagonistical  to  the  fundamental  and 
well  established  principles  of  the  Federal  Consti- 


454 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Thuesday,  August  13. 


tution,  and  inimical  and  dangerous  to  our  b»st  in- 
terests and  welfare  as  a  State ;  and  Whereas,  We 
believe  that  the  true  policy  and  general  interests 
of  the  people  of  the  Territory  demand  the  estab- 
lishment of  an  East  and  West  boundary  line,  there- 
fore, as  an  expression  of  the  feelings  of  this  Re- 
publican body. 

"  Besolved,  That  we  recognize  the  Republican 
organization  at  St.  Paul  as  the  legal  branch  of  the 
Constitutional  Convention,  and  endorse  their  ac- 
tion, thus  far  in  the  premises,  as  in  accordance 
with  the  principles  and  tepents  of  the  Republican 
party. 

"  Besolved,  That  we  deem  it  for  the  interests  of 
this  Territory  that  it  be  divided  by  an  East  and 
West  boundary  line,  and  our  Delegates  in  the  Con- 
stitutional Convention  are  hereby  requested  and 
instructed  to  use  all  fair  and  honorable  means  to 
embody  in  the  Constitution  such  a  boundary  line, 
or  submit  the  same  to  a  vote  of  the  people  as  a 
separate  question. 

^'Besolved,  That  the  charge  of  our  opponents  that 
the  Republican  party  is  Know  Nothing  in  its  char- 
acter or  affinities,  is  a  false  charge — and  that  we  are 
as  a  party,  in  favor  of  the  largest  liberty  and  equal 
rights  to  all  men,  no  matter  where  born,  or  of 
whatsoever  nationality. 

"  Besolved,  That  the  fundamental  aim  of  the 
Republican  party  is  the  assertion  of  the  true 
principles  and  just  interpetation  of  the  federal 
constitution,  efiectual  opposition  to  the  modern 
heresy  that  freedom  is  no  better.than  slavery,  the 
maintainance  of  the  rights,  dignity  and  sovereign- 
ty of  the  States,  and  the  defence  of  the  personal 
liberty  of  the  citizen,  the  rights  and  interests  of 
free  labor,  ard  the  vindication  of  the  doctrines  of 
the  Declaration  of  Independence  and  the  essential 
rights  of  man. 

"Besolved,  That  what  is  called  the  Democratic 
party  of  to-day,  in  the  free  States,  could  not  sur- 
vive a  single  battle  in  its  present  position,  but  for 
the  lure  and  reward  of  feder?il  patronage.  That 
this  patronage  being  thus  the  great  corrupter  of 
our  politics,  and  the  principal  agent  in  retaining 
vitality  in  the  ranks  of  the  pro-slavery  party  in  the 
free  States,  is  an  evil  of  vast  and  growing  magni- 
tude, which  demands  abridgement  by  bringing, 
as  far  as  practicable,  all  federal  offices  within  the 
reach  of  the  people  by  popular  election. 

Mr.  W.  C.  Dodge  then  took  the  floor  and  in  a 
forcible,  argumentative,  and  telling  speech  fully  met 
and  refuted  all  the  misrepresentations  made  at  the 
meeting  of  the  Democracy  last  week,  and  in  his 
review  of  the  two  political  parties  in  this  Territory 
for  the  last  few  months,  threw  a  light  upon  the 
subject,  that  must  have  been  particularly  disagree- 
able to  the  sore  opposition.  He  stigmatized  the 
assertion  made  by  the  opposition  leaders,  that  the 
Kepublicans  were  a  party  with  ?^now  Nothing  pro- 
clivities as  false,  and  challenged  any  person  then 
present  or  elsewhere,  to  produce  a  single  senti- 
ment in  any  Republican  platform  that  ever  was 
formed,  whereby  the  charge  of  Know  Nothingisra 
could  attach  to  them  as  a  party.  Mr.  Dodge  ably 
treated  the  other  issue  of  the  campaign,  and^  re- 
tired amid  great  applause. 

Mr.  Ilanscome  was  then  recalled  and  delighted 
the  audience  with  a  stirring  appeal  to  them  as 
Republicans,  closing  with  an  eloquent  and  earnest 
defense  of  them  as  a  party,  and  of  their  position 
in  the  present  crisis. 

A  lively  discussion  than  sprang  up  between  some 
of  the  speakers  and  one  or  two  of  the  opposition, 


who  endeavored  to  crawl  out  of  a  very  small  hole 
into  which  they  had  crept  the  other  night,  but  who 
after  a  considerable  squirming  and  wriggling,  were 
obliged  to  stay  where  their  folly  had  placed  them. 

A  motion  was  then  made  and  carried,  that  a 
committee  of  two  be  appointed  to  present  the  res- 
olutions passed  to  the  Convention  at  St.  Paul  and 
to  have  them  published  in  the  Free  Press  and  other 
Republican  papers  of  the  Territory. 

W.  L.  COUPLIN,  Chairman. 

E.  E.  Paulding,  Secretary." 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  I  move  that  the 
address,  and  resolutions  accompanying  the 
same,  be  laid  upon  the  table,  to  be  taken  up 
and  considered  this  afternoon  at  two  o'clock, 
in  connexion  with  the  resolution  offered  by 
the  gentleman  from  Nicollet  (Mr.  Davis). 

The  motion  was  agreed  to. 

MILEAGE   OF   MEMBEKS. 

On  motion  of  Mr.  MANTOR,  the  following 
resolution  was  taken  from  the  table  for 
consideration : 

"Besolved,  That  the  certificates  of  mileage, 
signed  by  the  President  and  attested  by  the  Secre- 
tary, be  issued  to  each  member  of  this  Constitu- 
tional Convention,  and  that  the  Territorial  Treas- 
urer be  authorized  to  pay  the  same  out  of  the  fund 
appropriated  by  law  for  defraying  the  expenses  of 
this  Convention ;  and  on  production  of  said  cer- 
tificates by  the  said  Treasurer,  the  amount  of  the 
same  shall  be  allowed  to  him  as  a  credit  against 
any  moneys  in  his  hands,  appropriated  as  aforesaid, 
on  the  final  adjustment  of  his  accounts  \n  relation 
to  the  said  fund." 

Mr.  COLBURN.     I  move  that  the  resolu- 
tion be  laid  upon  the  table. 
The  motion  was  agreed  to. 

MILITIA. 

On  motion  of  Mr.  CLEGHORN,  the  Con- 
vention resolved  itself  into  a  committee  of  the 
Whole,  (Mr.  Cleghokn  in  the  Chair)  upon 
report  number  twenty,  on  the  Militia.  (For 
report,  see  proceedings  of  August  tenth.) 

The  report  was  read  by  sections  for  amend- 
ment and  discussion. 

"  Sec.  1.  The  Militia  of  this  State  shall  be  com- 
posed of  all  able  bodied  white  male  citizens,  be- 
tween the  ages  of  eighteen  and  forty-five  years' 
except  such  as  are  or  may  be  exempt  by  the  laws 
of  the  United  States,  or  of  this  State,  and  they 
shall  be  enrolled  in  such  manner  as  may  be  pro- 
vided by  law." 

Mr.  NORTH.  I  move  to  strike  out  the 
word  "  white  "  in  the  second  line.  I  wish, to 
strike  out  that  word  so  as  to  bring  in  the 
Doctor's  (Mr.   Foster)  half-breeds,    whose 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Thcbsday,  August  1?. 


455 


cause  he  has  been  advocating  so  strenuously, 
in  order  to  give  them  a  chance  to  fight.  I  am 
told  that  these  half-breed  Pembina  men  make 
the  best  cavalry  in  the  world;  that  they 
fire  ■with  astonishing  rapidity  on  horseback, 
and  make  first  rate  soldiers  in  an  emergency. 
They  would  do  to  chase  Ink-pa-du-ta's  band. 
And  if  the  negroes  and  mulattoes  are  such 
excellent  soldiers  as  General  Jackson  said 
they  were  at  the  battle  of  New  Orleans,  I 
want  them  to  have  a  chance  too. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  object  to  that  amend- 
ment, for  the  reason  that  the  word  "  white  " 
occurs  in  the  Constitution  in  another  place 
where  it  deprives  negroes  of  the  right  of 
the  right  of  suffrage.  Now  I  object  to  com- 
pelling a  class  of  men  to  do  mihtary  duty, 
who  are  not  allowed  the  right  to  vote.  It 
would  be  inflicting  a  hardship  which  they 
ought  not  to  be  compelled  to  endure.  They 
will  be  compelled  to  do  military  duty  under 
such  an  amendment,  and  to  pay  a  fine,  if  the 
Legislature  sees  fit  to  impose  a  fine  for  the 
non-performance  of  such  services.  If  the 
word  "  white  "  is  to  be  retained  in  the  article 
on  the  Elective  Franchise,  it  ought  to  be  re- 
tained here.  If  gentlemen  desire  to  include 
the  half-breed,  so  as  to  subject  them  to  do 
military  duty,  it  can  be  done  by  an  additional 
clause,  but  I  object  to  negroes  bepg  compelled 
to  do  military  duty,  unless  they  have  the  right 
to  vote.  * 

Mr.  NORTH.  Would  the  gentleman  give 
them  the  right  to  volunteer  ? 

Mr.  COLBURN.  This  first  section  would 
probably  not  prevent  them  from  volunteering, 
but  I  doubt  the  propriety  of  allowing  evefl 
that. 

Mr .  FO  STER.  I  am  in  favor  of  the  amend- 
ment, not  because  the  half-breeds  are  partic- 
ularly able  bodied  men,  capable  of  aiding  in 
the  defence  of  the  country,  but  because  I 
believe  we  should  allow  all  able-bodied  per- 
sons to  participate  in  the  defence  of  the 
country.  Because  public  opinion,  is  not 
ready  to  accord  to  a  particular  class  of  popu- 
lation all  their  rights,  I  would  not  deprive 
them  of  such  rights  as  pubhc  opinion  is  ready 
to  accord  to  them.  I  would  not  go  so  far  as 
to  insist  that,  because  they  cannot  have  one 
particular  right,  they  shall  not  have  another. 
I  consider  that  while  fighting  for  our  country 
is  a  duty,  it  is  also  a  privilege.    Some  may 


think  otherwise,  and  esteem  it  only  a  burthen. 
I  do  not  view  it  in  that  light.  I  think  we 
should  so  arrange  this  matter  that  that  class 
will  not  be  excluded,  if  the  State  sees  fit  to 
call  upon  them.  I  wish  to  have  gentlemen 
all  understand  that  I  have  taken  the  broad 
position  that  all  the  rights  of  men  should  be 
awarded  to  them,  and  it  is  only  a  question  of 
policy  and  expediency  whether  we  shall 
attempt,  at  this  time,  to  encounter  the  public 
prejudice  which  exists.  I  go  for  doing  all  the 
justice,  and  all  the  good  I  can,  and  as  fast  as 
I  can.  For  that  reason,  I  am  in  favor  of 
striking  out  the  word  "  white "  fix>m  this 
article. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  I  think  that  the  second 
section,  giving  certain  powers  to  the  Legisla- 
ture in  regard  to  volunteer  troops,  provides 
suflBciently  for  that  class  of  persons,  and  it 
is  unnecessary  to  strike  out  the  word  "  white  " 
because  the  second  section  permits  them  to  join 
in  defence  of  their  country,  by  volunteering. 
Mr.  NORTH.  I  am  decidedly  opposed  to 
conferring  privileges  upon  a  large  class  of 
citizens,  and  then  relieving  them  of  their 
burdens.  Gentlemen  say  you  deprive  them 
of  the  privilege  of  voting,  and  then  relieve 
them  from  military  djity.  But  there  are  two 
sides  t3  the  question.  Here  are  a  large  class 
which  that  section  reUeves  from  the  burden 
of  doing  military  duty,  for  instance,  the  half- 
breeds.  I  hold  that  it  is  no  worse  for  them 
to  do  military  duty  than  it  is  for  the  whites. 
I  insist  upon  it,  if  there  is  any  fighting  to  be 
done,  they  shall  have  their  share  of  it. 

Mr.  MANTOR.  This  word  "  white  "  here 
places  me  in  an  awkward  position.  Here 
comes  before  the  Convention  a  report  with 
my  name  attached,  containing  the  word 
"white"  while  it  is  well  known  that  I  am  in 
favor  of  striking  out  that  word  from  the 
article  on  the  Elective  Franchise  also.  Now, 
I  withheld  this  report  for  some  days  to  see 
whether  the  word  •'  Yrhite  "  would  be  stricken 
out  of  that  article.  Seeing  that  it  was  the 
determination  of  this  body  to  insert  that 
word  in  that  article,  I  came  to  the  conclu- 
sion that  it  would  be  no  more  than  right; 
that  if  a  certain  class  of  persons  wanted  all 
the  glory  of  voting,  they  should  have  all  the 
glory  of  fighting  too.  For  that  reason  I  con- 
sented that  the  word  "white"  should  be 
inserted  in  this  report. 


456 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Thuesday,  August  13. 


Mr.  BOLLES.  Because  men  have  placed 
themselves  in  a  position  in  which  they  will 
wish  in  the  future  they  had  not  placed  them- 
selves, I  am  opposed  to  allowing  them  to  avoid 
the  inconveniences  of  that  position.  The  fact 
that  we  have,  in  another  part  of  the^Constitu- 
tion,  used  the  word  "  white,"  (very  inappro- 
priately, as  I  conceive)  is  no  argument  why 
we  should  use  it  in  this  article  of  the  Consti- 
tution, when  we  can  very  appropriately  and 
consistently  withhold  it.  I  think  it  is  in  this 
connection  very  offensive,  and  I  shall  sustain 
the  motion  to  strike  it  out.  I  hope  the  amend- 
ment will  prevail,  and  I  hope  the  good  sense 
of  the  Convention — and  I  say  it  with  aU  can- 
dor, and  with  a  due  regard  to  the  gentleman 
who  voted  to  retain  it  in  the  article  upon  the 
elective  franchise — will  manifest  itself  by  sus- 
taining the  amendment. 

Mr.  WILSON.  I  would  like  to  know 
whether  there  is  another  case  on  record,  ex- 
cept those  read  by  the  gentleman  from  Rice 
county  (Mr.  North)  the  other  day,  where 
negroes  have  fought,  or  wished  to  fight. 

Mr.  NORTH.  There  is  an  abundance  of 
cases,  other  than  those,  but  I  had  not  time  to 
refer  to  them. 

The  question  was  taken  on  the  amendment 
and  it  was  not  agreed  to. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  I  move  the  following 
substitute  for  the  whole  report : 

"  Sec.  — .  The  citizens  of  this  State  shall  be 
armed,  organized  and  disciplined  for  its  defence, 
when,  and  in  such  manner  as  may  be  directed  by 
law.  Those  who  conscientiously  scruple  to  bear 
arms,  shall  not  be  compelled  to  do  so,  but  shall 
pay  an  equivalent  for  personal  service." 

In  regard  to  this  subject,  I  think  it  is  gene- 
rally the  best  course  to  leave  it  to  the  Legisla- 
ture, and  to  leave  it  as  free  as  possible,  so 
that  the  Legislature  may  prescribe  such  rules 
and  regulations  as  they  think  best.  Now  I 
do  not  suppose  that  the  regular  [militia  sys- 
tem will  be  adopted  in  the  State  of  Minnesota. 
It  has  proved  a  nuisance  wherever  it  has  been 
adopted.  The  Legislature  is  the  proper  body 
to  devise  a  militia  system  such  as  we  want, 
and  my  substitute  gives  them  the  power  to 
do  so,  and  it  gives  them  the  power  to  allow 
negroes,  or  any  other  class,  to  serve  in  mili- 
tary c  jmpanics,  if  they  think  proper  to  do  so. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  hope  the  substitute 
will  not  be  adopted,  and  there  are  several 


reasons  why  I  hope  so.  If  this  shall  be  left 
to  the  Legislature,  it  will  be  liable  to  abuse, 
from  the  fact  that,  as  is  n-ell  known,  that 
there  is  generally  but  little  interest  in  this 
matter  in  the  community.  If  there  should 
happen  to  be  in  the  Legislature  some  half 
dozen  men  ambitious  of  military  titles  and 
honors,  they  could  control  the  whole  thing, 
because  there  would  be  but  little  attention 
paid  to  it  by  others.  They  can  get  such  an 
organization  as  they  desire,  and  have  such 
oflBcers  appointed  as  they  please.  That  very 
thing  has  in  some  States,  lead  to  considerable 
difficulty.  This  report  provides  not  for  the 
old  militia  system,  but  it  provides  that  the 
Legislature  shall  provide  by  law  for  the 
organization,  equipment  and  discipline  of  such 
number  of  volunteer  troops  as  they  shall 
deem  necessary  for  the  protection  of  the  State 
and  the  preservation  of  order. 

Then  again,  I  do  not  like  the  last  clause 
of  the  substitute.  It  provides  that  persons 
having  conscientious  scruples  shall  not  be 
compelled  to  bear  arms  at  any  time — not 
only  in  time  of  peace  but  at  any  other  time. 
Now  under  that  provision,  any  person  who 
might  say  that  he  had  conscientious  scruples 
against  bearing  arms,  could  not  be  compelled 
to  bear  arms  at  any  time,  and  if  a  man  is  a 
hypocrite  he  can  get  rid  of  doing  military 
duty.  I  think  the  report  is  far  preferable  to 
the  substitute.        ■ 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  A  word  will  answer 
the  last  objection  urged,  by  the  gentleman 
from  Filmore  county.  There  are  men — the 
Friends  and  others — who  have  conscientious 
scruples  against  bearing  arms.  If  you  make 
any  provision  in  regard  to  this  matter,  you 
must  make  ^me  such  provision  as  that.  I 
think  it  has  been  adopted  in  many  States 
where  there  are  a  great  many  Quakers,  and 
it  has  been  adopted  almost  precisely  in  that 
language,  and  for  them  expressly.  It  is  wrong 
to  compel  them  to  bear  arms.  Such  a  pro- 
vision may  be  liable  to  be  abused,  and  men 
may  seek  refuge  under  it  improperly,  to  avoid 
bearing  arms  in  time  of  war.  But  it  is  of  lit- 
tle use  to  have  such  men  in  the  army.  The 
volunteer  system  is  the  best  that  can  be  de- 
vised for  this  Territory.  A  compulsory  sys- 
tem can  never  be  adopted  efficiently.  The 
defence  of  the  country  is  in  the  able  bodied 
men  of  the  country,^who  feel  an  interest  in 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Thtbsday,  Acgust  13. 


457 


their  homes  and  firesides.  It  has  been  de- 
monstrated that  volunteers,  as  a  general  thing, 
defend  themselves  well,  upon  their  own  soil 
at  least — and  that  is  what  we  want  an  army 
for.  They  will  defend  themselves,  and  their 
country  against  any  body  of  mere  hireling  sol- 
diers, and  I  never  will,  by  my  vote,  give  even 
an  intimation  that  this  country  does  not  at  aU 
times  possess  a  sufficient  number  of  men  who 
will  volunteer  to  defend  it. 

True,  as  the  gentleman  says,  a  man  might, 
for  the  time  being,  say  that  he  was  a  Quaker, 
to  avoid  bearing  arms,  but  would  it  not  be  a 
blessing  to  keep  such  a  man  out  of  the  army  ? 
We  do  not  want  such  men  in  the  army  ? 

As  to  the  other  objection,  I  have  but  httle 
to  say.  My  substitute  leaves  it  wholly  with 
the  Legislature.  And  by  the  way  we  have 
left  everything  almost  to  the  Legislature,  out- 
side of  general  fundamental  principles.  We 
have  left  them  to  provide  the  details  of  almost 
all  matters,  and  that  is  our  true  policy  in 
framing  a  Constitution.  We  have  left  the 
school  system  and  the  banking  system  to  the 
Legislature,  and  why  should  we  not  leave  the 
militia  system? 

The  gentleman  says  there  may  be  ambi- 
tious men  in  the  Legislature  who  want  mih- 
tary  titles  and  honors.  Perhaps  there  are 
some  of  that  class  among  us.  I  do  not  know, 
and  if  the  Governor  has  the  right  to  appoint, 
he  may  appoint  them  if  he  pleases.  But  this 
I  have  found  out,  that  men  ambitious  for  mil- 
itary titles  in  times  of  peace,  are  not  generally 
the  ones  to  go  to  war.  Those  men,  so  ambi- 
tious when  all  is  harmony,  peace  and  sunshine, 
are  not  the  ones  to  be  found  in  actual  war. 
I  recollect  a  circumstance  that  occurred  at 
the  time  the  second  requisition  for  volunteers 
was  made  for  the  Mexican  war.  A  company 
of  cavalry  of  my  town  held  a  meeting  on  a 
certain  night,  and  two  officers  of  the  company 
made  very  brave  and  patriotic  speeches.  The 
next  morning  the  information  that  a  second 
requisition  was  made,  came  to  our  town,  and 
a  call  was.  made  for  assistance  there.  The 
cavalry  company  was  called  together,  and  it 
was  requested  that  those  who  would  volun- 
teer to  go  should  advance.  Two  advanced 
only,  and  all  the  officers  stayed  behind. 

Now  I  think  we  should  trust  the  Legisla- 
ture with  this  matter  of  establishing  a  sys- 
tem from  time  to  time  as  exigencies  require. 
58 


Military  service  does  not  pay  very  well,  and 
if  there  is  any  glory  in  it,  let  those  have  it 
who  want  it. 

Mr.  LOWE.  There  are  reasons  which, 
perhaps,  should  cause  me  to  feel  more  par- 
ticular interest  in  this  subject  than  in  any 
other  before  the  Convention.  I  hope  the 
amendment  which  has  been  proposed  as  a 

substitute  will  prevail.  The  same  reasons 
which  induced  us  to  cut  down  the  reports 
upon  the  banking  system  and  the  school  sys- 
tem, and  various  other  reports,  should  lead 
us,  with  even  more  determination,  to  deal 
with  this  report  in  the  same  way. 

It  seems  to  me  that  the  reasons  which  the 
gentleman  from  Fillmore  County  (Mr.  Col- 
BUKX)  has  ui^ed  against  the  adoption  of  the 
substitute,  are  very  unsoimd.  They  are  based 
upon  the  ground  that  the  Legislature  is 
not  competent  to  legislate.  If  that  be  true, 
it  ought  to  have  operated  with  us,  in  our  ac- 
tion upon  many  other  questions  which  have 
been  before  us.  It  seems  to  me  that  it  would 
be  a  very  gross  act  upon  the  part  of  this  Con- 
vention to  say  to  the  Legislature  that  they 
shall  establish  a  certain  system,  and  shall  not 
establi  h  any  other.  It  seems  to  me  that  it 
would  awake  a  strong  opposition  against  our 
Constitution,  upon  the  part  of  a  large  portion 
of  our  people,  who  have  strong  military  in- 
stincts, to  say  that  they  shall  have  a  volun- 
teer system  and  shall  not  have  a  militia  sys- 
tem. They  believe  the  Legislature  is  com- 
petent to  determine  for  themselves  what  is 
best  in  regard  to  this  matter.  As  to  what 
particular  system  is  best,  is  a  subject  upon 
which  I  have  not  been  able  to  form  an  opin- 
ion. It  is  one  of  the  most  difficult  subjects 
which  have  been  offered  to  this  Convention, 
and  a  subject  which  should  be  determined  by 
the  Legislature  according  to  circumstances. 
In  one  State  it  might  be  best  to  have  a  volun- 
teer system,  while  in  another  State  a  mixed 
system  would  best  suit  their  circumstances. 
Or  it  might  be  desirable  to  have  a  mixed  sys- 
tem, according  to  circumstances  and  the  state 
of  public  opinion  at  the  time.  An  attempt 
upon  our  part  to  prescribe  which  of  these 
systems  shall  be  adopted  for  all  time  to  come 
is  very  objectionable. 

Besides  that,  a  particular  course  pursued 
by  this  Convention  might  implicate  it  with 
the  peace  party.     It  is  well  known  that  many 


468 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Thuskdat,  August  13. 


advocates  of  anti-slavery  principles,  are  also 
strong  peace  men.  I  have  nothing  to  say 
about  the  correctness  or  incorrectness  of  their 
principles,  but  this  Convention  should  avoid  all 
implication  with  any  of  those  hobbies. 

Now  this  is  a  matter  which  does  not  con- 
cern us  in  the  least.  It  belongs  to  the  Legis- 
lature exclusively,  and  should  be  provided  for 
by  them  accor  ling  to  circumstances  at  the 
time.  I  think  the  substitute  is  all  we  should 
adopt.  It  should  be  left  open  to  the  Legis- 
lature and  we  should  not  prescribe  to  them 
any  particular  system  which  they  should 
adopt,  or  the  particular  class  of  troops  that 
they  shoiild  organize  at  any  future  time. 

Mr.  FOSTER.  I  think  the  opinion  of  the 
gentleman  from  Chisago  (Mr.  Lowe)  aside 
from  the  force  of  this  argument,  entitled  to 
respect.  I  have  uniformly  objected  to  legis- 
lating in  the  Constitution.  And  it  seems  to 
me  that  this  article  is,  in  fact,  a  complete  mili- 
tia system.  I  think  we  ought  to  leave  it  with 
the  Legislature. 

But  one  gentleman  upon  the  committee 
which  made  the  report,  (Mr.  Colburn)  says 
if  we  leave  it  with  the  Legislature,  those  am- 
bitious gentlemen  who  want  military  titles  and 
honors,  will  get  up  a  comprehensive  system 
which  will  suit  their  personal  wishes,  and 
give  them  office.  It  strikes  me  that  the  sys- 
tem which  is  contained  in  this  report,  is  a 
pretty  comprehensive  one  itself,  and  that  there 
is  a  pretty  large  corps  of  these  officers  to  be 
provided  for.  I  do  not  say  that  ambitious 
motives  operated  in  getting  up  this  system. 
I  do  not  say  that  those  who  got  up  this  report 
deserve  to  be  Major  Generals,  Brigadier  Gen- 
erals, Colonels,  &c.,  but  those  offices  are  all 
provided  for  here.  Nor  do  I  say  that  the 
system  was  got  up  because  we  expect  to 
elect  a  Republican  Governor,  and  because  the 
Republicans  want  all  these  nice  honorable 
offices  among  themselves.  I  do  not  say  that ; 
but  I  do  say  that  the  argument  can  just  as 
well  be  applied  to  this  report,  as  it  can  be  to 
the  Legislature.  This  is  a  complete  system, 
so  far  as  the  offices  are  concerned.  If  it 
were  not  that  it  is  legislating  in  the  Constitu- 
tion, I  should  have  no  objection,  to  be  sure, 
to  the  arrangement  of  all  these  officers,  oven 
though  the  gentleman  upon  the  committee 
should  desire  them.  I  think  the  gentleman 
from  Fillmore  (Mr.   Colbubn)  would   look 


very  well  in  uniform,  though  not  quite  as 
well  as  my  friend  from  Dodge  County  (Mr. 
Mantor)  the  Chairman  of  the  committee. 
(Laughter.)  I  think  his  appearance  in  military 
dress  would  be  rather  superi»r,  and  would 
look  the  character  well. 

But  aside  from  all  that  matter,  I  think  it  is 
purely  a  matter  of  legislation,  and  that  we 
better  adopt  the  substitute  and  confine  the 
article  to  that  alone. 

Mr.  BARTHOLEMEW.  The  gentlemen 
of  the  Convention  will  bear  with  me  while  I 
make  a  few  remarks  upon  this  subject,  and 
for  the  first  time  put  myself  upon  the  records 
of  this  Convention.  I  signed  this  report  not 
because  it  was  a  perfect  one,  but  upon  the 
principle  on  which  Dr.  Franklin  acted  in  sign- 
ing the  Constitution  of  the  United  States,  that 
it  was  the  best  we  could  have  under  the  pres- 
ent circumstances.  I  am  in  favor  of  a  full 
organization  of  a  militia  system.  I  am  not  a 
fighting  man  I  admit,  but  I  hold  that  our 
peace  and  security  is  insured  to  us  by  being 
always  prepared  for  war.  I  would  go  into  a 
full  organization  of  a  militia  system  so  that 
we  may  know  what  our  strength  is,  and  so 
that  we  may  have  individuals  upon  whom  we 
may  cast  the  proper  resposibilities  in  case  of 
war.  Now  we  all  know  that  three  quarters  of 
our  Territory  is  surrounded  by  savage  tribes, 
and  we  know  not  at  what  time  we  may  be 
called  upon  to  use  our  anns  in  defence  of 
our  lives.  Hence  we  must  all  see  the  necessity 
of  having  a  good  and  sufficient  military  force. 

In  regard  to  the  amendment  which  was 
proposed  to  strike  out  the  word  "  white"  irom 
the  first  section,  I  have  but  a  very  few  words 
to  say.  I  anticipated  it  from  the  quarter 
whichit  comes.  The  word  "white"  was  in- 
serted in  that  section  for  the  reason  that  I,  for 
one,  was  not  willing  to  lay  burdens  upon  in- 
dividuals from  whom  we  took  away  the  rights 
which  we  guaranteed  to  every  other  class  of 
persons.  This  Convention  deemed  it  to  be 
policy,  and  to  bo  absolutely  necessary  under 
the  circumstances,  to  insert  the  word  "  white '» 
in  another  article  of  our  Constitution.  Now 
if  we  deem  it  improper  to  give  to  that  class  of 
persons  certain  privileges  which  we  extend  to 
others,  we  should  not,  in  all  justice,  require 
them  to  bear  arms,  and  expose  themselves  to 
the  shots  of  the  Indian  enemy. 

Another  thing ;  it  is  certain  that  it  will  bo 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Thcbsday,  August  13. 


459 


necessary  for  us  to  depend  upon  volunteer 
troops  for  oxir  defence.  Now  I  ask  gentlemen, 
if  they  would  be  willing  to  join  a  volunteer 
company,  if  they  were,  by  so  doing,  compelled 
to  associate  with  persons  of  color.  I  doubt 
it.  I  assert  it,  without  fear  of  successful  con- 
tradiction, that  God  has  implanted  in  the 
bosom  of  every  man,  and  for  wise  purposes, 
prejudices  as  to  certain  things,  and  this  preju- 
dice against  color,  is  one  of  them.  I  think  to 
strike  out  this  word  "white"  and  permit  col- 
ored persons  to  bear,  arms,  and  to  volunteer, 
would  lessen  very  much  the  probability  of  our 
always  getting  a  suflBcient  military  organiza- 
tion, under  certain  circimjstances. 

In  regard  to  the  second  proposition  con- 
tained in  this  report,  I  would  urge,  in  its  de- 
fence, the  necessity  of  having  some  imperious 
obligation  upon  the  Legislature,  to  provide 
amply  for  the  organization  of  troops.  I  am 
well  aware  that  it  has  grown  to  be  popular  at 
the  present  day,  among  the  descendants  of  the 
revolution,  to  cry  down  a  full  militia  organiza- 
tion. "We  have  only  to  refer  to  Legislatures 
which  heretofore  have  existed,  to  be  convinced 
of  the  fact,  that  when  the  subject  of  the  es- 
tablishment of  a  militia  system  has  been 
brought  before  them,  there  exists  a  kind  of 
holy  horror  at  the  idea,  and  that  they  are 
disposed  to  pass  the  matter  over  very  lightly 
and  very  triflingly.  Now  I  beUeve  that  it  is 
necessary,  vmder  the  circumstances  in  which 
we  are  placed,  that  the  Legislature  should 
give  full  encouragement  to  the  organization  of 
volunteer  troops.  How  recent  is  it  that  om- 
homes  have  been  disturbed  by  the  reports  of 
Indian  incursions  ?  How  were  we  prepared 
to  meet  those  incursions  ?  There  was  no  re- 
sponsibility resting  upon  any  one  to  bring  out 
our  citizens.  Our  citizens  are  not  disposed  to 
leave  their  farms  and  firesides  to  go  out 
against  the  savages.  There  must  be  some 
compulsory  process  to  bring  them  out.  In 
view  of  the  manner  in  which  this  subject  has 
been  treated  by  the  Legislature,  I  think  it  in- 
cumbent upon  us,  in  our  Constitution,  to  make 
it  obligatory  upon  the  Legislature  to  provide 
ample  means  for  organizing  troops. 

The  third  section  provides  that  all  officers 
of  the  militia  (staflF  officers  excepted)  shall  be 
elected  by  persons  subject  to  military  duty  in 
their  respective  commands,  in  such  manner  as 
shall  be  provided  by  law. 


In  defence  of  the  provisions  of  that  section 
I  would  say  that  in  many  States  the  Legisla- 
tures have  been  in  the  habit  of  electing  per- 
sons, to  fill  offices  which  conlerred  any  partic- 
ular honor  in  their  own  bodies.  They  have 
been  careful  not  to  allow  the  election  of  officers 
to  be  made  by  those  who  were  luider  the  di- 
rect command  of  those  officers,  and  in  nine 
cases  out  of  ten  it  has  proved  detrimental  to 
the  best  interests  of  the  military  system.  I 
recollect  that  the  Legislatiure  of  Ohio,  a  few 
years  ago,  when  they  revised  their  mihtary 
system,  and  made  provision  by  law  for  eight 
new  divisions,  elected  seven  of  the  Major 
Generals  out  of  theu-  own  body.  This  is  all 
wrong,  as  every  one  must  see,  and  the  third 
section  is  designed  to  prevent  that  in  this 
State. 

The  fourth  section  provides  that  the  Gov- 
ernor shall  appoint  the  Adjutant,  Quarter  Mas- 
ter, and  Gommissaiy  Generals  of  the  State 
and  Major  and  Brigadier  Generals  and  Colo- 
nels, and  Colonels  shall  appoint  their  respec- 
tive staff  officers. 

I  believe  that  provision  is  very  necessary 
for  the  advancement  of  the  militia  system. 
We  are  aware  that  frequently  officers  are  not 
qualified  for  the  position  they  occupy.  And 
they  should  not  hold  their  commissions  in 
such  a  manner  that  they  cannot  be  displaced, 
provided  they  show  themselves  incapable  of 
performing  the  duties  of  their  positions. 

I  regret  to  see  the  spirit  of  opposition  which 
has  been  manifested  here  to  the  militia  sys- 
tem. The  gentleman  from  Scott  County  told 
us  of  an  instance  which  came  vmder  his  ob- 
servation. He  told  it  for  the  purpose  of  dis- 
paraging the  militia  system.  I  regret  to  see 
him  manifest  the  enmity  he  has  to  the  militia 
system.  From  what  I  have  seen  of  legisla- 
tive action  upon  this  subject,  I  have  no  con- 
fidence in  that  body  in  reference  to  this  matter. 
They  are  disposed  to  pass  the  matter  over  as 
of  trifling  importance.  We  should  provide 
abundantly  for  our  o^vn  safety,  and  it  is  a 
matter  which  calls  upon  us  loudly  for  our  at- 
tention. We  are  surrounded  by  savages  and 
we  know  they  are  easily  excited  and  aroused. 
We  are  aware,  too,  that  our  government  does 
not  always  deal  with  them  upon  strict  princi- 
ples of  equity,  and  they  may,  and  frequently 
do  have,  excusable  cause  for  rising  and  at- 
tacking whites.    It  becomes  us  then  to  be  pre- 


460 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES -THrssD ay,  August  13. 


pared  at  all  times,  and  to  have  some  means 
ready  through  which  our  physical  strength 
can  be  best  exerted  in  our  defence. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  The  gentleman  en- 
tirely misapprehended  me,  if  he  understood 
me  to  say  that  I  was  opposed  to  organizing 
and  displaying  our  citizens  for  military  duties. 
But  the  gentleman  does  not  want  to  trust  the 
Legislature.  But  he  must  trust  the  Legisla- 
ture under  this  very  report.  They  are  re- 
quired by  it  to  provide  laws  for  the  organiza- 
tion, equipment  and  discipline  of  such  number 
of  volunteer  troops  as  they  shall  deem  neces- 
sary. The  report  itself  is  only  a  delegation  of 
certain  powers,  and  the  development  of  only 
a  part  of  a  system,  and  it  is  inoperative  of 
itself,  as  a  whole  plan  of  military  organization. 
No  man  that  looks  at  the  report,  will  say  that 
there  is  any  military  organization  established 
by  it.  It  only  provides  part  of  a  system,  and 
that  part  is  entirely  inoperative  without  the 
act  of  the  Legislature,  which  the  gentleman 
does  not  like  to  trust.  It  says  the  Legisla- 
ture shall  do  so  and  so.  Suppose  they  refuse 
or  neglect  to  do  so,  who  is  going  to  bring  com- 
pulsory process  against  them  ?  There  it  no 
such  power.  It  is  left  to  their  judgment,  after 
all,  to  act  or  not  to  act,  because  they  are  to 
do  so  and  so,  as  they  shall  deem  necessary. 

While  my  amendment  leaves  out  the  details 
of  a  partial  system  as  contained  in  this  report, 
it  leaves  the  whole  matter  where  it  should  be 
left— with  the  Legislature.  The  Constitution 
of  the  United  States  provides  that  the  Presi- 
dent shall  be  commander  in  chief  of  the  army. 
And  it  only  bestows  upon  Congress  the  simple 
power  to  raise  an  army.  And  it  impliedly  gives 
Congress  unlimited  power  over  the  whole  army. 
And  is  Congress  more  competent  than  the 
Legislature  of  a  State,  to  govern  this  matter? 
We  presume  that  Congress  is  as  corrupt  as 
most  other  bodies. 

We  have  adopted  the  general  principle  of 
leaving  matters  of  legislation  to  the  Legisla- 
ture, and  of  confining  ourselves  to  general 
principles.  With  the  same  propriety,  with 
which  gentlemen  urge  us  to  establish  a  militia 
system,  could  they  call  upon  us  to  establish 
a  common  school  system.  That  we  have  re- 
fused to  do.  And  I  say  here  that  a  good 
school  system  is  worth  all  the  military  sys- 
tems in  the  world.  The  genius  of  the  country 
is  to  cultivate  the  arts  of  peace— and  to  cul- 


tivate the  arts  of  peace  by  the  diffusion  of 
knowledge,  and  the  education  of  the  morals 
of  the  whole  country.  To  discourage  war  is 
the  desire  of  every  good  man  in  the  land.  It 
is  to  be  avoided  wherever  it  can  be.  "  In 
"  time  of  peace  prepare  for  war."  That  is  a 
general  sentiment.  But  prepare  the  people 
for  war  by  giving  them  a  good  education,  and 
surrounding  them  with  home  interests.  Then 
they  will  defend  their  firesides  effectually, 
though  they  were  mustered  into  the  militia,  or 
enrolled  in  a  volunteer  company.  I  take  it 
to  be  a  fact  that  the  greater  part  of  our  citi- 
zens who  were  engaged  in  the  war  with  Mex- 
ico, never  shouldered  a  musket  in  a  volunteer 
or  military  company  in  their  lives  prior  to 
their  enrollment.  The  troops  were  made  up 
of  the  good,  solid,  and  hard  working  men  of 
the  country.  When  our  country  is  attacked 
who  defends  it  ?  The  good,  substantial  and 
educated  citizens  of  the  country. 

M}''  substitute  provides  that  the  Legislature 
shall  provide  for  the  organization  of  a  military 
system,  and  they  will  do  it.  And  so  under 
this  report  they  are  bound  to  do  it,  or  else 
the  balance  of  the  report  is  entirely  inopera- 
tive. If  we  are  going  into  details  in  this  mat- 
ter let  us  have  a  whole  system  and  not  a  part 
of  one.  But  I  prefer  to  leave  it  all  to  the 
Legislature. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  do  not  propose  to  go 
into  a  lengthy  discussion  of  this  matter,  but 
it  is  so  seldom  that  I  am  complimented  for  my 
good  looks,  that  I  cannot  let  this  opportunity 
for  saying  a  word  pass,  although  perhaps  I  , 
ought  not  to  be  the  first  one  to  notice  it  from 
the  fact  that  the  gentleman  (Dr.  Foster)  su- 
perceded me  by  reference,  in  still  more  com- 
plimentary terms,  to  another  gen tlemaif  upon 
the  committee. 

In  regard  to  the  ambitious  designs  of  cer- 
tain gentlemen  of  the  Convention,  I  have  no 
desire  to  deny  that  there  may  be  members  of 
the  Convention  ambitious  even  for  military 
honors.  For  myself,  I  should  be  hardly  wil- 
ling to  deny  that  I  am  ambitious.  And  since 
the  gentleman's  remarks  I  begin  to  grow  more 
ambitious  than  ever.  If  a  gentleman  is  de- 
sirous of  an  office,  he  deserves  one  pleasantly 
located.  Now  it  is  well  known  that  the  office 
of  Commissary  General  and  Adjutant  Gene- 
ral is  in  the  same  building  and  contigious  to 
that  of  the  Secretary  of  btate.     I  do  not  say 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Thursday,  Acgcst  13. 


461 


that  any  gentleman  of  the  Convention  will  be 
Secretary  of  State,  but  it  is  conceded  that 
there  is  a  gentleman  here  who  would  make  a 
very  good  Secretary  of  State,  and  doctor  up 
the  matters  of  that  office  very  skillfully.  That 
is  a  very  good  office,  and  if  I  aspired  to  any 
office,  I  would  desire  one  as  near  that  of  the 
Secretary  of  State  as  possible,  so  that  I  might 
enjoy  the  affability  and  sociability  of  any 
gentleman  who  might  be  elected  to  fill  it.  As 
it  is  not  then  determined,  but  that  I  shall  as- 
pire to  that  location,  I  hope  the  report  will  be 
adopted,  so  that  I  may  have  a  chance.  (Laugh- 
ter). 

The  substitute  offered  by  the  gentleman 
from  Scott  County  (Mr.  Galbbaith)  was  then 
adopted. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  offer  the  following  as 
an  additional  section  to  the  substitute : 

"Sec. — .  All  officers  of  the  Militia — staff  offi- 
cers excepted — shall  be  elected  by  persons  subject 
to  military  duty  in  their  respective  commands,  in 
such  manner  as  shall  be  provided  by  la»'.'"| 

I  offer  the  section  in  order  to  meet  the  ob- 
jections of  some  gentlemen  here.  It  prevents 
the  Legislatm-e  from  electing  any  of  those 
officers.  It  is  the  custom  in  many  States,  for 
the  Legislature  to  elect  Major  Generals  &c.  I 
consider  that  a  bad  policy,  and  I  propose 
that  the  officers  shall  be  elected  by  persons 
who  are  required  to  do  military  duty. 

The  amendment  was  agreed  to. 

And  then,  on  motion  of  Mr.  BATES,  the 
committee  rose  and  reported  to  the  Conven- 
tion the  report  and  amendments,  with  a 
recommendation  that  the  amendments  be  con- 
curred in. 

The  question  being  upon  concurring  in  the 
recommendation  of  the  committee — 

Mr.  MORGAN  said :  I  call  for  a  division 
of  the  question  so  that  we  may  take  a  sepa- 
rate vote  upon  the  substitute  offered  by  the 
gentleman  from  Scott  •  county  (Mr.  Gal- 
bbaith.) I  call  for  the  division  because  I 
am  opposed  to  the  last  amendment  which  was 
adopted,  offered  by  the  gentleman  from  Fill- 
more county  (Mr.  Colbvbs.)  It  seems  to 
me  that  there  may  be  a  difficulty  about  the 
choice  of  officers  under  that  section.  It  pro- 
poses that  all  persons  interested  may  vote. 
Different  States  have  adopted  different  organ- 
izations. Some  of  them  have  provided  that 
all  persons  between  the  ages  of  eighteen  and 


forty-five  shall  be  enrolled,  while  at  the  same 
time  they  have  special  provisions  for  the  ac- 
tual organization  of  independent  companies. 
Now  the  question  arises  in  choosing  Major 
Generals,  &c.,  whether  every  person  in  the 
division  would  be  entitled  to  vote,  or  only 
persons  belonging  to  organized,  standing 
companies.  I  think  the  whole  matter  had 
better  be  left  with  the  Legislature. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  will  simply  remind 
the  gentleman  that  that  section  states  that 
they  shall  be  elected  by  the  respective  per- 
sons doing  military  duty  in  the  manner  pre- 
scribed by  law.  The  Legislature  provides 
who  those  persons  shall  be,  and  they  must  be 
in  their  respective  commands. 

Mr.  MORGAN.  In  that  case  the  Legisla- 
ture  might  provide  that  commissioned  officers, 
and  non-commissioned  officers,  might  choose 
Brigadier  and  Major  Generals.     % 

The  question  was  then  taken  severally  on 
the  amendments  recommended  by  the  com- 
mittee of  the  Whole,  and  they  were  respec- 
tively concurred  in. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  I  offer  the  following 
as  a  substitute : 

"Sec.  — .  The  Legislature  shall  provide  by 
law  for  the  organization,  equipment  and  disci- 
pline of  the  militia,  and  such  number  of  volunteer 
troops  as  they  shall  deem  necessary  for  the  pro- 
tection of  the  State  and  the  preservation  of 
order." 

Mr.  PERKINS.  I  desire  to  inquire  if  sec- 
tion thirty-five  of  the  report  upon  the  Legis- 
lative Department  was  stricken  out  ? 

Mr.  CLEGHORN.  It  was.  It  covered 
the  same  ground  as  this  report. 

The  substitute  was  adopted. 

Mr.  CLEGHORN  offered  the  following  as 
an  additional  section. 

"Sec.  — .  No  person  havinar  conscientioas 
scruples  against  bearing  arms,  shall  be  compelled 
to  do  military  duty  in  time  of  peace,  but  may  be 
required  to  pay  an  equivalent  for  such  service." 

The  amendment  was  adopted. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  I  believe  there  is  a 
misunderstanding  in  regard  to  the  substitute 
I  offered.  I  intended  it  only  as  a  substitute 
for  one  section.  I  did  not  intend  that  it 
should  take  the  place  of  the  whole  report.  I 
intended  it  only  to  take  the  place  of  the  sec- 
tion which  was  offered  by  the  gentleman  from 
Scott  county,  (Mr.  Galbbaith.) 


462 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Thursday,  August  13. 


The  PRESIDENT.  The  Chair  did  not  so 
understand  it,  and^it  was  adopted  as  a  sub- 
stitute for  the  whole  report  as  it  then  stood. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  call  for  the  reading  of 
the  whole  report  as  it  now  is. 

The  PRESIDENT  read  the  report,  consist- 
ing of  the  substitute  oifered  by  Mr.  Stan- 
NABD,  and  the  additional  section  offered  by 
Mr.  Cleghorn. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  think  that  gentlemen 
of  this  Convention  do  not  understand  the 
force  and  effect  which  the  report  is  going  to 
have  as  it  now  stands.  It  provides  for  more 
than  gentlemen,  I  imagine,  are  willing  to  go 
for.  It  goes  further  in  warlike  preparation 
than  gentlemen  are  aware  of.  I  desire  to 
have  a  little  delay  to  allow  me  to  prepare  an 
amendment.  (Cries  of  "  question,"  "  ques- 
tion.") 

The  report  as  thus  amended  was  ordered 
to  be  engrossed  for  a^  third  reading. 

TAXATION,   FINANCE  &C. 

On  motion  of  Mr.  KING,  the  Convention 
resolved  itself  into  a  committee  of  the  Whole, 
(Mr.  Hudson  in  the  Chair)  upon  the  report 
of  the  committee  on  Finance,  Taxation  and 
PubUc  Debt. 

[For  report,  see  proceedings  of  August 
tenth.] 

The  report  was  read  by^sections  for  amend- 
ment and  discussion. 

The  first  three  sections  _were  passed  with- 
out amendment. 

"  Sec.  4.  The  credit  of  the  State  shall  not  be 
granted  to,  or  in__aid_of,  any  person,  association  or 
corporation." 

Mr.  KING  moved  to  strike  out  section 
four. 

Mr.  CLEGHORN.  I  hope  that  motion 
will  prevail.  In  report  No.  five,  section  eight, 
on  Banking  and  Corporations  other  than  Mu- 
nicipal, there  is  this  provision  : 

"  The  State  shall  not  be  a  stockholder  iu  any 
banking  or  other  corporation ;  nor  shall  the  credit 
of  the  State  be  given  or  loaned  in  aid  of  any  per- 
son, association  or  corporation." 

Mr.  LOWE.  It  seems  to  me  that  this  is 
one  of  those  doubtful  propositions,  which  this 
Convention  is  not  called  upon  to  insert  in  the 
Constitution.  I  know  that  in  many  cases 
the  exercise  of  the  power  which  is  now  pro- 
posed to  be  taken  away  from  the  Legislature, 
has  been  exercised  by  them  very  beneficially. 


I  think  it  is  a  mooted  question  whether  the 
Legislature  should  or  should  not  be  permitted 
to  grant  such  aid,  and  I  do  not  think  that  this 
Convention  is  called  upon  to  determine  it.  I 
should  not  feel  satisfied  to  say  that  the  Legis- 
lature shall  not  grant  such  aid.  I  know  that 
in  the  State  of  Massachusetts  that  power  has 
been  exercised  by  the  Legislature,  and  it  has 
resulted  in  the  highest  good.  Other  instan- 
ces might  be  pointed  out  in  which  it  has  ope- 
rated differently.  I  do  not  know  why  it 
would  not  be  likely  to  operate  as  well  in  this 
State  as  in  any  other,  and  by  saying  that  such 
power  shall  not  be  exercised  by  the  Legisla- 
tui'e  might  impede  the  advancement  of  our 
State.  I  do  not  think  we  ought  to  restrict 
the  State  in  the  use  of  this  power  for  all  com- 
ing time,  though  it  may  be  that  the  power  has 
been  abused.  There  is  the  right  of  endorse- 
ment among  individuals.  It  has  been  abused, 
but  who  would  suggest  a  restriction  of  indi- 
vidual action  on  that  account?  If  rightly 
used  it  is  a  source  of  great  benefit.  This  pro- 
vision is  one  which  is  not  commonly  adopted 
in  the  Constitutions  of  our  States  and  I  think 
we  are  not  called  upon  to  adopt  any  extreme 
propositions.     This  is  certainly  such  a  one. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to,  and  the  section 
was  stricken  out. 

"Sec.  6.  The  State  shall  never  contract  any 
debts  for  works  of  internal  improvements,  or  be  a 
party  in  carrying  on  such  works ;  except  in  such 
cases  where  grants  of  land  or  other  property  shall 
have  been  made  to  the  State,  especially  dedicated 
by  the  grant  to  particular  works  of  internal  im- 
provements, the  State  may  carry  on  such  particular 
works,  and  shall  devote  thereto  the  avails  of  such 
grants,  and  may  pledge  or  appropriate  the  reve- 
nues derived  from  such  works  in  aid  of  their 
completion." 

Mr.  McKUNE  moved  to  strike  out  that 
section. 

Mr.  STANNADD.  I  hope  that  motion  will 
not  prevail.  It  seettls  to  me  that  it  may  be 
necessary  that  there  should  be  such  a  provi- 
sion in  the  Constitution.  It  may  be  that  a 
donation  or  grant  of  swamp  lands,  or  other 
lands  may  be  made  to  the  State  to  aid  in  the 
construction  of  some  public  works,  to  which 
it  may  bo  necessary  for  the  State  to  be  a 
party.  I  am  not  disposed,  by  striking  out 
this  clause  of  the  Constitution,  to  make  it 
obligatory  upon  the  State  to  transfer  their 
interest  in  such  grant  to  certain  parties,  in 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Thitbsdat,  Acqitst  13. 


463 


order  that  the  object  for  which  the  grant  was 
made  may  be  carried  out,  and  have  the  hands 
of  tlie  State  tied  entirely.  It  certainly  can 
do  no  harm  if  it  remains  here,  and  it  may  do 
much    ood. 

Mr.  ilcKUNE.  Such  a  grant  as  the  gentle- 
man alluded  to,  always  carries  with  it  the 
right  to  dispose  of  it.  In  that  respect,  then, 
this  section  is  entirely  mmecessary.  Besides 
that,  it  grants  doubtful  powers.  A  State, 
under  this  clause,  may  become  a  partner  to 
any  public  work  in  the  State  wherever  a  grant 
of  land  has  been  made,  or  may  be  made. 
Now  I  hope  never  to  see  the  State  a  partner 
in  any  public  works  or  public  improvements. 

The  motion  to  strike  out  was  not  agreed  to. 

"Sec.  7.  The  State  shall  never  contract  any 
public  debt,  unless  in  time  of  war  to  repel  inva- 
sion, or  suppress  insurrection,  except  as  is  in  this 
Constitution  provided. 

"Sec.  8.  The  money  arising  from  any  loan  made, 
or  debt  or  liability  contracted,  shall  be  applied  to 
the  object  specified  in  the  act  authorizing  such 
debt  or  liability,  on  the  re-payment  of  such  debt 
or  liability,  and  to  no  other  purpose." 

ilr.  CLEGHORN.  I  move  to  strike  out  sec- 
tions seven  and  eight.  My  reason  for  making 
the  motion  is,  that  we  have  already  embodied 
the 'subject  matter,  of  those  sections  in  the 
article  on  the  Legislative  Department.  Sec- 
tion thirty-six  of  that  article  reads  as  follows : 

"  The  Legislature  may  [contract  debts  to  meet 
casual  deficits  or  failures  in  the  revenue,  but  such 
debts,  direct  or  contingent,  singly  or  in  the  aggre- 
gate, shall  not  at  any  time  exceed  five  hundred 
thousand  dollars ;  and  the  moneys  arising  trom 
loans  creating  such  debts,  shall  be  applied  to  the 
pxirposes  for  which  they  were  obtained,  or  to  pay 
such  debts :  Provided,  That  the  State  may  contract 
debts  to  repel  invasion,  suppress  insurrection,  or 
if  hostilities  are  threatened,  provide  for  the  public 
defence." 

If  we  adopt  these  two  sections,  they  will 
conflict  with  the  provision  of  a  section  we 
have  already  adopted  in  another  part  of  the 
Constitution. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to,  and  the  sec- 
tions were  stricken  out. 

Mr.  WILSON  oflfered  the  following  as  an 
additional  section : 

"Sec.  10.  The  Le^lature  shall  provide  by 
law  for  taxing  the  notes  and  bills  discounted  or 
purchased,  money  loaned  on  all  other  property, 
efiects  or  dues  of  every  description,  of  all  banks 
now  existing  or  hereafter  created,  and  of  all 
bankers,  so  that  all  property  employed  in  banking 


shall  always  bear  a  burden  of  taxation  equal  to 
that  imposed  on  the  property  of  individuals." 

Mr.  STANNARD.  Is  not  that  species  of 
property  included  under  the  head  of  personal 
property  ? 

Mr.  WILSON.  I  would  say  that  some- 
times it  is,  and  sometimes  it  is  not  It  could 
be  included  under  that  head,  but  I  do  say 
that  we  shall  find  the  rule  upon  this  subject 
is  as  conflicting  as  can  possibly  be  imagined. 
And  if  we  here  believe  that  this  kind  of  prop- 
erty should  bear  a  burden  of  taxation  equal 
to  that  of  individuals — and  I  think  no  person 
wUl  dispute  that — ^it  is  our  duty  to  insert  such 
a  clause  in  the  Constitution,  for  no  person 
will  say  that  it  has  been  a  uniform  rule  to  tax 
them,  when  there  has  been  no  constitutional 
provision  requiring  it.  These  banking  insti- 
tutions stand  upon  the  same  footing  as  the 
other  monopolies  I  have  heretofore  spoken  of. 
They  frequently  have  privileges  which  indi- 
viduals have  not.  I  want  to  set  the  question 
of  their  taxation  at  rest  here. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  As  chairman  of  the 
conmiittee  which  made  this  report,  and  as  a 
member  of  this  Convention,  I  have  constantly 
felt  inclined  to  steer  as  fiir  firom  anything 
which  would  look  like  le^lation  as  possible. 
I  am  not  opposed,  that  I  know  o^  to  having 
property  of  the  kind  mentioned  by  the  gen- 
tleman firom  Winona,  taxed,  but  I  am  op- 
posed to  making  that  amendment  a  consti- 
tutional provision,  because  I  think  it  belongs 
entirely  to  the  Legislative  department  to  regu- 
late that  matter. 

Mr.  WILSON.  I  will  say  that  my  amend- 
ment was  a  section  taken  from  the  Ohio 
Constitution.  I  do  not  claim  any  originality 
in  that  amendment. 

Mr.  MORGAN.  It  seems  to  me  that  such 
a  provision  would  operate  very  unjustly.  In 
the  first  place  it  is  provided  that  aU  species  of 
property  shall  be  taxed.  AU  men  are  taxed 
for  their  banking  capital.  I  own  shares  in  a 
bank.  I  am  taxed  for  them.  In  addition  to 
that,  the  gentleman  now  would  provide  that 
bills  and  notes  shall  be  taxed — for  instance, 
the  bills  in  circulation  or  the  notes  discounted. 
I  might  own  a  bank  with  a  capital  of  one 
himdred  thousand  dollars,  and  under  this 
provision  I  would  first  be  taxed  for  my  bank- 
ing capital;  then  I  might  be  taxed  for  the 
deposits  persons  might  be  pleased  to  make  in 


461 


MIN^^ESOTA  COXVEXTION  DEBATES— Thursday,  ^August  13. 


the  bank  ;  I  might  be  taxed  for  all  the  notes 
I  discounted,  and  for  all  the  notes  which  I 
put  in  circulation — and  in  fact  be  taxed  four 
or  five  times  the  same  capital. 

In  reference  to  this  being  a  provision  from 
the  State  of  Ohio,  I  know  that  that  matter 
has  been  in  litigation  in  that  State  for  many 
years,  and  there  is  great  diflSculty  constantly 
growing  out  of  it.  Banks  have  always  dis- 
puted the  taxes,  and  banks  have  been  broken 
open  by  county  or  state  authorities  for  the 
purpose  of  collecting  taxes,  and  the  matter  is 
not  settled  yet.  I  do  not  desire  to  see  any 
such  state  of  affairs  in  Minnesota. 

Mr.  BALCOMBE.  I  can  see  no  necessity 
for  adopting  the  section  offered  by  my  col- 
league, for  the  reason  that  the  first  section 
provides  that  the  Legislature  shall  make  laws 
for  a  uniform  and  equal  rate  of  assessment 
and  taxation,  and  shall  prescribe  such  rules 
as  shall  secure  a  just  valuation  for  taxation  of 
all  property.  Now  why  select  out  one  partic- 
ular class  of  property  and  appropriate  a  whole 
section  to  it,  especiallj''  when  we  have  covered 
the  whole  ground  by  a  previous  section,  which 
authorizes  the  Legislature  to  pass  such  gen- 
eral laws  as  they  may  see  fit  and  proper  with 
an  eye  to  the  proper  and  equal  taxation  of  all 
kinds  of  property.  The  first  section  covers 
fully  and  completely  the  ground  which  the 
gentleman  wishes  to  cover. 

Mr.  WILSON.  The  reason  I  would  give 
for  being  specific  on  this  particular  property 
is,  that  notwithstanding  almost  every  Consti- 
tution contains  a  clause  similar  to  the  first  sec- 
tion to  which  my  collegue  referred,  yet  the  prac- 
tice, under  it  so  far  as  this  species  of  property  is 
concerned,  has  been  exceedingly  fluctuating, 
some  States  taxing  and  some  not  taxing  the 
circulation  of  banks.  Now  when  we  find  this 
rule  so  fluctuating,  and  that  the  provision  like 
that  contained  in  the  first  section  of  this  re- 
port does  not  answer  all  the  ends  proposed, 
should  we  not  provide  specifically  by  a  section 
which  cannot  be  misunderstood  or  miscon- 
strued, that  this  property  shall  be  taxed  ?  I 
think  no  gentleman  can  see  anything  unjust  in 
this  provision.  I  have  looked  at  it  carefully. 
I  know  very  little  of  banks  particularly,  but 
I  claim  that  such  a  provision  is  just,  and  with- 
out this  additional  section  we  have  no  security 
that  that  first  section  will  be  carried  out  as 
we  wish. 


The  amendment  was  rejected. 

Mr.  STANNARD  moved  to  insert  in  place 
of  section  eight,  which  had  been  stricken  out, 
the  following: 

"The  Legislature  may  provide  for  levying  taxes 
for  the  support  of  common  schools  as  may  be 
deemed  expedient." 

Mr.  BALCOMBE.  I  M-ould  inquire  of  the 
gentleman,  if  there  is  not  such  a  provision  as 
that  in  the  report  of  the  committee  upon  edu- 
cational institutions  and  interests,  already 
adopted. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  I  am  not  able  to  inform 
the  gentleman, 

Mr.  LOWE.  I  believe  it  is  provided  for  in 
that  report. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  My  recollection  is  that 
the  report  as  made  by  the  committee,  was 
entirely  voted  down,  and  a  substitute  of 
two  sections  offered  by  the  gentleman  from 
Mower  county  (Mr.  Lyle,)  was  adopted  in 
the  place  thereof. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  I  withdraw  the  amend- 
ment. I  was  not  aware  that  there  was  any 
such  section. 

Mr.  BILLINGS.  As  the  committee  have 
voted  down  the  amendment  of  the  gentleman 
from  Winona,  I  move  to  amend  the  first  section, 
by  inserting  after  the  word  "personal"  in  the 
fourth  line,  the  words  "and  mixed,"  so  as  to 
make  it  read  "  as  shall  secure  a  just  valua- 
"  tion  of  all  property,  both  real  and  personal 
«'and  mixed,"  &c.  It  may  cover  a  class  of 
property  which  we  may  fail  to  recognize.  It 
is  well  known  that  there  is  a  class  of  property 
that  does  not  belong  to  real  or  personal. 

The  amendment  was  adoptad. 

Mr.  PECKHAM.  I  move  to  amend  the 
same  clause,  by  striking  out  the  word  "both'' 
before  the  words  "  real,  personal  and  mixed." 
That  amendment  becomes  necessary  from  the 
change  in  phraseology  made  by  the  last 
amendment. 

The  amendment  was  adopted. 

Mr.  ALDRICH  offered  the  following  amend- 
ment: strike  out  all  after  the  word  "except- 
ing" in  the  fourth  line  of  the  first  section  and 
insert : 

"The  property  of  the  State  and  Counties,  both 
real  and  personal,  and  such  other  property  as  the 
Legislature  may  deem  necessary  for  school,  reli- 
gious, charitable,  literary  and  scientific  purposes." 

Mr.  DICKERSON.  I  would  enquire  ifthat 
e:xception  includes  homestead  exemptions  t 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Thuksdat,  August  1?. 


465 


The  amendment  was  agreed  to. 

Mr.  DICKERSON.  I  would  now  inquire 
if  there  is  any  section  which  provides  for  the 
exemption  of  any  household  furniture  from 
taxation.  If  there  is  no  such  provision  I 
should  think  it  highly  important  that  the  lat- 
ter part  of  the  first  section  should  be  retained 
as  it  was  reported  by  the  committee.  There 
should  be  a  certain  amount  of  household  prop- 
erty which  every  one  may  hold  free  from  tax- 
ation. That  is  the  reason  why  I  voted  against 
the  amendment. 

On  motion  of  Mr.  LOWE,  the  committee 
then  rose,  reported  to  the  Convention  the  re- 
port and  amendments  with  a  recommendation 
that  the  amendments  be  concurred  in. 

The  question  first  recurred  upon  concur- 
ring in  the  amendment  to  the  first  section  by 
striking  out  all  after  the  word  "  excepting," 
and  inserting  "the  property  of  the  State  and 
"county  both  real  and  personal,  and  such 
"other  property  as  the  Legislature  may  deem 
"  necessary  for  schools,  religious,  charitable, 
"literary  and  scientific  purposes." 

Mr.  PECKHAM.  It  strikes  me  that  there 
is  one  class  of  institutions  which  it  may  be 
proper  to  except  from  taxation,  but  which  is 
not  included  in  that  amendment,  such  as  hos- 
pitals and  asylums.  They  were  provided 
for  in  that  part  of  the  report  of  the  committee 
which  was  stricken  out  by  this  amendment. 

The  PRESIDENT.  The  amendment  in- 
cludes charitable  and  literary  institutions. 

Mr.  MORGAN.  I  would  enquire  if  the 
amendment  includes  municipal  property?  I 
have  the  impression  that  it  does  not. 
^  Mr.  FOSTER.  I  would  suggest  how  this 
whole  difficulty  can  be  got  along  with.  It  is 
not  necessary  to  enumerate  all  these  classes 
of  property  which  may  be  exempted  by  law. 
Suppose  we  strike  out  all  between  the  word 
"only"  and  the  word  "as"  so  that  it  shall 
read  "  excepting  such  only  as  may  be  specially 
"  exempted  by  law." 

There  is  force  in  the  objection  of  the  gentle- 
man from  Scott  county_(Mr.  Dickebson,)  and 
to  obviate  that  objection,  as  well  as  others,  I 
move  to  strike  out  the  words  I  have  men- 
tioned. 

The  PRESIDENT.    The  first  question  is 
upon  concurring  in  the  amendment  recom- 
mended by  the  committee,  and  after  that  is 
disposed  of,  the  amendment  will  be  in  order. 
59 


The  amendment  of  the  committee  was  not 
concurred  in. 

Mr.  FOSTER.  I  now  ofi"er  my  amend- 
ment. 

Mr.  WILSON.  I  think  that  gentlemen 
who  want  to  be  consistent,  ought  to  vote  for 
the  amendment,  and  leave  it  to  the  Legisla- 
ture to  tax  a  few  and  exempt  a  few — leave  it 
for  them  to  do  just  as  they  choose.  For  my- 
self, I  shall  vote  against  it.  I  do  not  wish  to 
leave  it  to  the  Legislature  to  make  any  such 
exceptions.     I  do  not  think  it  would  be  safe. 

Mr.  CLEGHORN.  I  do  not  think  any 
wrong  will  arise  from  that  course.  We  have 
already  provided  in  the  Constitution,  that  all 
laws  shall  be  of  a  general  character.  I  am 
in  favor  of  the  amendment. 

The  amendment  was  agreed  to. 

The  second  amendment  recommended  by 
the  committee  was  to  strike  out  the  word 
"  both"  in  the  third  line  of  the  first  section. 

The  amendment  was  concurred  in. 

The  third  amendment,  to  strike  out  section 
four,  was  concurred  in. 

The  fourth  amendment,  to  strike  out  sec- 
tions seven  and  eight,  was  concurred  in. 

Mr.  FOLSOM.  I  move  to  strike  out  sec- 
tion six.     It  is  as  follows : 

"  The  State  shall  never  contract  any  debts  for 
works  of  internal  improvements,  or  be  a  party  in 
carrying  on  such  works;  except  in  such  cases 
when  grants  of  land  or  other  property  shall  have 
been  made  to  the  State,  especially  dedicated  by 
the  grant  to  particular  works  of  internal  improve- 
ments, the  State  may  carry  on  such  particular 
works,  and  shall  devote  thereto  the  avails  of  such 
grants,  and  may  pledge  or  appropriate  the  reve- 
nues derived  from  such  works  in  aid  of  their  com  - 
pletion." 

Report  No.  22,  on  Internal  Improvements, 
conveys  the  same  meaning  and  in  much  bet- 
ter style  than  the  first  part  of  section  six. 
As  to  the  latter  part  of  section  six,  which  re- 
fers to  grants  of  land,  I  maintain  that  where 
land  is  donated,  there  is  a  natural  right  in  the 
Legislature  of  the  State  to  dispose  of  it,  with- 
out any  Constitutional  provision. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to,  and  the  section 
was  stricken  out. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  move  to  amend  the  first 
section  by  inserting  the  words  "a  general" 
before  the  word  "  law ;"  so  as  to  require  that 
the  Legislature  shall  provide  by  a  general 
law  for  a  uniform  and  equal  rate  of  taxation,  &c. 


466 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Thuksd ay,  August  18. 


Mr.  FOSTER.  I  am  opposed  to  that 
amendment.  It  is  a  useless  multiplication 
of  words. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  My  object  is  to  make  the 
exceptions  general.  I  do  not  understand,  as 
the  section  now  stands,  that  it  does  make  the 
exceptions  general.  It  would  authorize  the 
Legislature  at  every  session,  perhaps,  to  ex- 
empt certain  and  particular  property  from 
taxation. 

The  amendment  was  agreed  to. 

Mr.  WILSON.  I  would  like  a  little  further 
time  to  look  over  this  report,  and  I  move  that 
the  Convention  take  a  recess  until  half-past 
two  o'clock.  It  is  now  our  usual  time  to  ad- 
journ, 

Mr.  STANNARD.  I  hope  the  Convention 
will  take  a  recess  and  think  this  matter  over. 
As  this  report  is  now  shaped,  I  conceive  that 
the  donation  made  by  the  Enabling  Act,  never 
will  be  made  available. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  move  that  the  report 
be  laid  upon  the  table. 

Mr.  WILSON.     I  withdraw.my  motion. 

The  motion  to  lay  upon  the  table  was 
agreed  to. 

THB    MILITIA     AGAIN. 

Mr.  FOSTER.  I  would  like  the  miani- 
mous  consent  of  the  Convention  to  move  to 
reconsider  the  vote  by  which  the  report  upon 
the  Militia  was  ordered  to  be  engrossed  for  a 
third  reading.  I  think  that  the  Convention 
did  not,  in  that  report,  exactly  get  at  what 
they  intended — or  at  least,  that  the  phraseol- 
ogy employed  did  not  effectuate  their  inten- 
tion. I  will  read,  as  part  of  my  remarks, 
what  I  intend  to  ofiPer  as  a  substitute  for  that 
report,  if  the  motion  to  reconsider  prevails. 
It  is  this : 

<<  guc,  — .  The  Legislature  shall  provide  by  law 
for  the  enrollment  of  the  militia,  the  establishment 
of  volunteer  corps,  and  such  other  organization, 
equipment  and  discipline  or  both,  as  may  be 
deemed  necessary  for  the  protection  of  the  State, 
and  the  preservation  of  order ;  but  no  person  hav- 
ing conscientious  scruples  against  bearing  arms 
shall  be  compelled  to  do  military  duty  in  time  of 
peace,  but  may  be  required  to  pay  an  equivalent 
for  such  service." 

That  differs  from  the  report  as  it  now  stands 
in  this ;  that  the  report  seems  to  provide  for 
the  organization,  equipment,  and  discipline  of 
the  militia,  absolutely — which,  I  think,  was 


not  intended  by  the  Convention;  certainly 
not  upon  my  part. 

Mr.  LOWE.  I  would  ask  if  the  proposed 
amendment  would  not  prevent  the  organiza- 
tion of  the  militia  ? 

Mr.  FOSTER.  Certainly  not.  It  reads  in 
this  way : 

"  The  Legislature  shall  provide  by  law  for  the 
enrollment  of  the  militia,  the  establishment  of  vol- 
unteer corps,  and  such  other  organization,  equip- 
ment and  discipline,  or  both,  as  may  be  deemed 
necessary  for  the  protection  of  the  fctate  and  the 
preservation  of  order,  &c." 

I  make  the  motion  to  reconsider. 

The  motion  to  reconsider  prevailed. 

Mr.  STANNARD,     I  now  move  to  recon- 
sider the  vote  by  which  the  Convention  adopt- 
ed the  substitute  which  I  ofiFered. 
,.  The  motion  was  agreed  to. 

And  then,  on  motion  of  Mr.  CLEGHORN, 
the  Convention  took  a  recess  until  half-past 
two  o'clock. 

AFTERNOON  SESSION. 

The  Convention  re-assembled  at  half-past 
two  o'clock. 

The  PRESIDENT  stated  the  business  be- 
fore the  Convention,  when  it  took  a  recess, 
was  the  consideration  of  the  report  upon  the 
militia. 

BOUNDARIES   OF   THE   STATE. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  I  rise  to  a  question 
of  order.  I  believe  the  resolution  offered,  by 
the  gentleman  from  Nicollet,  (Mr.  Davis,)  a 
few  days  since,  was  made  the  special  order 
for  tliis  afternoon  at  two  o'clock.  I  ask  that 
it  be  now  taken  up  and  considered. 

The  resolution  was  taken  from  the  table 
and  read  to  the  Convention. 

Mr.  COGGSWELI^  I  move  to  amend  the 
resolution  by  striking  out  all  of  the  first 
clause  of  the  resolution  after  the  word  *'  if' 
in  the  thirteenth  line,  and  inserting  the  follow- 
ing: 

"Then  the  same  shall  go  to  the  Congress  of  the 
United  States  with  this  Constitution,  and  if  assent- 
ed to  by  Congress,  then  the  same  shall  be  a  part 
of  the  said  Constitution,  and  binding  upon  the 
people  of  the  said  State  of  Minnesota,  without  any 
further  action  on  their  part. 

I  wish  merely  to  say  that  I  am  satisfied 
that  I  connot  succeed  in  obtaining  language 
any  stronger  than  that  used  in  this  amend- 
ment, and  that  without  that  language,  I  am 
satisfied  that  the  resolution  will  amount  to 


MINNESOTA  CONTENTION  DEBATES— Thcbsdat,  Acorsr  13. 


467 


but  little.  With  the  hope  that  it  will  prove 
satisfectory  to  the  friends  of  the  measure,  I 
oflfer  it.  The  language  is  more  appropriate 
than  that  made  use  of  in  the  resolution  as 
ofifered  by  the  gentleman  fi-om  Nicollet.  The 
idea  of  certifying  a  proposition  of  that  kind  is 
ndiculous  and  absurd.  For  that  reason  I 
desire  to  substitute  the  language  I  have 
chosen,  and  then  it  will  be  intelligible  to  say 
the  least  of  it.  And  inasmuch  as  I  do  not 
propose  to  discuss  the  merits  of  this  matter, 
but  desire  to  come  to  a  direct  vote  I  move  the 
previous  question, — a  thing  which  I  have  not 
done  before  during  this  Convention. 

Mr.  MORGAN.  Is  a  call  for  the  previous 
question  debatable  ? 

The  PRESIDENT.  After  the  previous 
question  has  been  seconded,  debate  is  not  in 
order. 

Mr.  MORGAN.  My  question  is  whether 
debate  is  in  order  upon  the  previous  questicwi? 

The  PRESIDENT.     It  is  not. 

Mr.  MORGAN.  I  hope  the  previous  ques- 
tion will  not  be  sprung  upon  the  Convention 
in  a  matter  of  this  kind,  and  especially  after 
it  has  been  discxissed  by  its  advocates  for  two 
or  three  days. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  I  call  for  the  yeas 
and  nays  upon  the  previous  question. 

Mr.  FOLSOM.  I  move  that  there  be  a  call 
of  the  Convention. 

A  call  of  the  Convention  was  ordered,  and 
the  roll  being  called  the  following  members 
tailed  to  answer  to  their  names — 

Messrs.  Ateb,  Billings,  Colbijbn,  Fosteb, 
Gerbish  and  Sheldos. 

Mr.  PHELPS  moved  that  all  further  pro- 
ceedings under  the  call  be  dispensed  with. 

The  motion  was  not  agreed  to. 

The  Sergeant-at-Arms  was  directed  to  re- 
port the  absent  members  in  their  seats. 

After  an  interval  of  fifteen  minutes,  during 
which  the  Sergeant-at-Arms  was  looking  up 
absent  members — 

ilr.  CLEGHORN  moved  to  reconsider  the 
vote  by  which  the  Convention  refused  to  dis- 
pense with  further  proceedings  under  the  call. 

Mr.  MORGAN.  I  would  inquire  if  the 
gentleman  voted  with  the  majority? 

Mr.  CLEGHORN.     I  did  not. 

The  PRESIDENT.  The  motion  is  out  of 
order  then. 

Mr.  BOLLES.     I  voted  with  the  majority, 


and  I  move  to  reconsider.  I  believe  several 
of  the  absent  members  have  come  in. 

The  motion  to  reconsider  prevailed,  and 
then  all  further  proceedings  under  the  call 
were  dispoised  with. 

The  previous  question  was  then  seconded, 
and  the  main  question  ordered  to  be  put. 

Mr.  MORGAN  called  for  the  yeas  and  nays 
upon  the  amendment. 

The  yeas  and  nays  were  ordered,  and  the 
question  being  put,  it  was  decided  in  the  neg- 
ative, ayes  28,  nays  29,  as  follows : 

Teas — Messrs.  Anderson,  Billings,  Bolles,  But- 
ler, Cleghom,  Colbxu-n,  Coggswell,  Coe,  Davis, 
Dulev,  Gerrish,  Harding,  HoUey,  King,  Lyle, 
Mantor,  McGann,  McKune,  McClure,  Mills,  Xorth, 
Perkins,  Peckham,  Robbins,  Thompson,  Watson, 
Wilson  and  Mr.  President. 

Nays — Messrs.  Aldrich,  Baldwin,  Bates,  Bar- 
tholemew,  Cederst-am,  Coombs,  Dickerson,  Esch- 
lie,  Folsom,  Galbraith,  Hall,  Harden,  Hudson, 
Hanson,  Kemp,  Lowe,  Messer,  Morgan,  Murphj, 
Phelps,  Putnam,  Russell,  Stannard,  Sheldon,  Se- 
combe,  Smith,  Vaughn,  Walker  and  Winell. 

So  tiie  amendment  was  rejected. 

The  question  then  being  upon  the  passage 
of  the  resolution — 

Mr.  COGGSWELL  called  for  the  yeas  and 
nays. 

The  yeas  and  nays  were  ordered,  and  the 
question  being  put  it  was  decided  in  the 
affirmative,  yeas  30,  nays  28,  as  follows : 

T&u — Messrs.  Anderson,  Billings,  Bolles,  But- 
ler, Cleghom,  Colbum,  Coggswell,  Coe,  Davis, 
Duley,  Gerrish,  Harding,  HoUey,  King,  Lyle, 
Mantor,  McCann,  McKune,  McClure,  Mills,  North, 
Perkins,  Peckham,  Robbins,  Secombe,  Thompson, 
Vaughn,  Watson,  WUson  and  Mr.  President. 

Nays — Messrs.  Aldrich,  Baldwin,  Bates,  Bar- 
tholemew,  Cederstam,  Coombs,  Dickerson,  Esch- 
lie,  Foster,  Folsom,  Galbraith,  Hall,  Hayden,  Han- 
son, Hudson,  Kemp,  Lowe,  Messer,  Morgan,  Mur- 
phy, Phelps,  Putnam,  Russell,  Stannard,  Sheldon, 
Smith,  Walker  and  Winell. 

So  the  resolution  was  Mopted. 

MrUTlA    SrSTEM. 

The  Convention  then  resumed  the  consider- 
tion  of  the  report  of  the  committee  on  the 
Militia,  the  question  being  on  the  adoption  of 
the  substitute  ofifered  by  Mr.  STAJfSASD. 

Mr.  KING.  The  report  was  ordered  to  be 
engrossed  for  a  third  reading,  and  although 
the  Convention  reconsidered  the  vote  by  which 
it  was  ordered  to  be  engrossed,  I  took  the 
liberty  to  have  it  engrossed  as  it  passed,  and 
I  now  ask  that  it  may  be  read. 


468 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Feiday,  August  14. 


The  PRESIDENT.  The  vote  has  been  re- 
considered by  which  the  Convention  ordered 
the  report  to  be  engrossed.  After  that  vote  was 
reconsidered  the  gentleman  from  Chisago  (Mr. 
Stannard)  moved  to  reconsider  the  vote  by 
which  the  substitute  he  offered  was  adopted. 
That  motion  prevailed,  and  the  question  now 
before  the  Convention  is  upon  the  adoption  of 
that  substitute. 

Mr.  FOSTER.  I  now  offer  my  amendment 
in  the  nature  of  a  substitute,  of  which  I  gave 
notice  when  I  made  the  motion  to  reconsider. 

The  substitute  was  read  as  follows : 

"Sec. — The  Legislature  shall  provide  by  law 
for  the  enrollment  of  the  militia,  the  establishment 
of  volunteer  corps,  and  such  other  organization, 
equipment  and  dicipline  or  both,  as  may  be  deemed 
necessary  for  the  protection  of  the  State,  and  the 
preservation  of  order ;  but  no  person  having  con- 
scientious scruples  against  bearing  arms  shall  be 
compelled  to  do  military  duty  in  time  of  peace,  but 
may  be  required  to  pay  an  equivalent  for  such  ser- 
vice." 

Mr.  PERKINS.  Is  there  more  than  one 
section  in  the  report  as  it  now  stands  ? 

The  PRESIDENT.  There  are  two.  Smce 
the  passage  of  the  resolution  on  the  boundary 
question,  much  confusion  prevailed  in  the 
Hall,  and  the  President  was  frequently  com- 
Ued  to  call  gentlemen  to  order.  So  much 
conversation  and  excitement  prevailed  in  the 
Convention  that  it  was  impossible  to  proceed 
with  the  business. 

Mr.  NORTH.  I  move  that  this  subject  be 
laid  upon  the  table  for  the  present.  Members 
will  not  attend  to  business.  Some  of  them 
have  more  interest  in  another  question. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to,  and  the  report 
was  laid  upon  the  table. 

BOUNDARY     QUESTION    ACxAlN. 

Mr.  NORTH.  I  now  move,  if  it  is  in  or- 
der, to  reconsider  the  vote  by  which  the  re- 
solution, submitting  the  question  of  boundary 
to  the  people,  was  passed.  I  regret  to  see  so 
much  feeling  upon  the  subject,  upon  both 
sides.  It  is  well  known  what  have  been  the 
views  of  every  member  of  this  Convention  in 
reference  to  the  boundaries  of  the  State. 
Gentlemen  have  had  frequent  occasion  to  ex- 
press their  sentiments,  both  by  vote  and  by 
speech.  As  there  were  certain  portions  of 
the  State  that  felt  a  deep  interest  in  that 
question,  I  felt  disposed  to  gratify  their  wishes 
and  desire  to  submit  that  question  to  the 


people,  if  we  could  do  so  without  injury  to 
other  sections  of  the  Territory,  and  I  hoped, 
if  the  subject  was  submitted  as  a'memorial 
simply,  it  might  be  done  without  injury  or 
prejudice  to  any  portion  of  the  Territory. 
But  I  see  there  is  great  feeling  upon  the  op- 
posing side,  as  well  as  upon  the  other  side ; 
and  as  this  vote  was  taken  under  the  opera- 
tion of  the  previous  question,  affording  gen- 
tlemen no  opportunity  to  express  their  views 
upon  the  question,  I  think  it  best  to  recon- 
sider it,  and,  therefore,  I  make  that  motion. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL  called  for  the  yeas  and 
nays. 

The  yeas  and  nays  were  ordered,  and  the 
question  being  put  it  was  decided  in  the  af- 
firmative— yeas  32,  nays  21,  as  follows : 

Yeas. — Messrs.  Aldrich,  Baldwin,  Bates,  Bar- 
tholomew, Butler,  Cederstam,  Coombs,  Dickerson, 
Eschlie,  Foster,  Galbraith,  Hall,  Hayden,  Hudson, 
Hanson,  Kemp,  Lyle,  Lowe,  Messer,  Morgan, 
Murphy,  North,  Phelps,  Perkins,  Putnam,  Peck- 
ham,  Bobbins,  Russell,  Sheldon,  Smith,  Vaughn, 
and  Walker.— -32. 

JVays.' — Messrs.  Anderson,  Billings,  Bolles, 
Cleghorn,  Colburn,  Coggswell,  Coe,  Gerrish, 
Harding,  Holley,  King,  Mantor,  McCann,  Mc- 
Kune,  McClure,  Mills,  Secombe,  Thompson,  Wat- 
son, Wilson,  and  the  President. — 21. 

So  the  motion  to  reconsider  was  carried. 

The  question  then  recurring  upon  the  pas- 
sage of  the  resolution — 

Mr.  COGGSWELL  moved  that  there  be  a 
call  of  the  Convention. 

A  call  was  ordered,  'and  the  roll  being 
called,  the  following  members  failed  to  answer 
to  their  names : 

Messrs.  Ayer,  Lyle,  Stannard,  and  Wi- 

NELL. 

And  then,  on  motion  of  Mr.  McKUNE,  (at 
three  o'clock  and  thirty  minutes,)  the  Con- 
ventioH  adjourned. 


TWENTY-NINTH   DAY. 

Friday,  August  14th,  1857. 
The  Convention  met  at  9  o'clock,  a.  m. 
The  journal  of  yesterday  was  read  and  ap- 
proved. 

boundaries  of  the  state. 

The  PRESIDENT  announced,  under  the 
regular  order  of  business,  the  unfinished  bu- 
siness of  yesterday,  being  the  consideration 
of  the  resolution  offered  by  Mr.  Davis,  sub- 
mitting the  boundary  question  to  a  vote  of 
the  people. 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Fbiday,  August  14. 


469 


Mr.  SECOMBE.  Before  the  question  is 
taken  upon  that  resolution,  I  desire  to  say  a 
few  words.  I  have,  heretofore,  refrained 
from  taking  any  part  in  the  discussion  of  this 
resolution,  for  the  simple  reason  that  I  felt  no 
interest  in  the  matter  one  way  or  the  other. 
It  will  be  recollected,  that  in  the  early  part  of 
the  session,  when  the  subject  was  before  the 
Convention  of  accepting  the  Enabling  Act,  I 
gave  my  views  upon  that  subject ;  that  I 
spoke  in  favor  of  adopting  the  provisions  of 
the  Enabling  Act,  and  that  I  did,  in  every  re- 
spect, strenuously  insist  upon  the  Enabling 
Act  being  compUed  with  in  its  minutest  par- 
ticulars. At  the  same  time,  when  gentlemen 
have  questioned  me  with  regard  to  the  pro- 
priety of  taking  a  vote  of  the  people  upon  the 
question  of  boundaries,  I  have  invariably 
stated  to  gentlemen  upon  both  sides  of  the 
question,  that  I  had  no  objections  ;  that  I  saw 
no  impropriety  in  allowing  the  people  to  ex- 
press their  opinions  upon  that  subject  in  any 
way  in  which  the  validity  of  the  Enabling 
Act  would  not  be  afifected,  or  the  effect  of  the 
Enabling  Act  be  injured.  And  when  the  pro- 
position was  submitted  to  the  Convention, 
which  proposed,  imder  an  amendment,  to 
make  this  proposition  a  part  of  the  Constitu- 
tion, I  stated  to  gentlemen  that  I  covdd  not 
vote  for  that,  and  that  I  should  not  vote  for 
the  proposition  in  any  other  shape  than  as  a 
memorial.  Other  gentlemen  made  the  same 
statement.  When  the  vote  was  taken,  I 
voted  as  I  had  indicated  that  I  should ;  not 
that  I  had  any  feeling  about  it,  but  that  I 
considered  it  nothing  but  what  was  perfectly 
fair  and  safe.  I  consider  it  so  now.  I  en- 
tirely deny  and  disregard  the  arguments  that 
have  been  used  by  those  opposed  to  the  reso- 
lution, as  to  the  deleterious  effect  that  would 
be  produced  by  the  passage  of  the  resolution. 
At  the  same  time,  it  seems  to  be  the  general 
wish  of  the  delegates  from  "the  county  repre- 
sented by  myself  that  the  resolution  should 
not  pass.  There  is  a  great  deal  of  feeling 
upon  the  subject ;  and  as  I  have  no  particular 
feeling  upon  this  subject,  and  only  voted  in 
accordance  with  what  I  considered  a  reasona- 
ble and  fair  proposition,  I  propose  to  change 
my  vote  when  it  is  taken  again.  And  I 
thought  it  not  improper  to  make  a  statement 
of  the  reasons  which  induce  me  to  do  so. 

Perhaps  there  is  another  reason.    I  under- 


stand that  some  gentlemen  are  so  much 
aggrieved  with  the  passage  of  the  resolution 
that  they  are  threatening  to  go  off  and  leave 
us,  and  not  assist  any  further  in  the  work  of 
this  Convention.  Being  very  anxious  to  have 
the  assistance  of  all  the  members  of  this  Con- 
vention, if  I  can  do  anything  to  retain  them 
here,  I  shall  be  glad  to  do  it. 

Mr.  !McCLURE.  The  people  of  the  coimty 
which  I  have  the  honor  to  represent,  are  al- 
most imanimously  in  favor  of  a  north  and 
south  line.  So  far  as  I  am  concerned  per- 
sonally I  am  decidedly  opposed  to  it,  and  I 
am  also  decidedly  in  favor  of  the  right  of  pe- 
tition. I  stated  when  the  resolution  was  first 
introduced  that  I  could  not  support  it,  mak- 
ing it  part  of  the  Constitution,  i  drew  up  a 
little  statement  which  I  find  incorporated  in 
it,  which  1  conceive  to  be  innocent  and  harm- 
less, in  shape,  manner  and  form,  and  in  my 
judgment  it  cannot  be  construed  in  any  other 
way  than  simply  as  a  request  that  Congress 
will  do  so  and  so.  I  imderstand  that  we 
have  accepted  the  conditions  of  Congress  un- 
conditionally, and  now  I  am  disposed  to  vote 
just  as  I  did  before ;  I  am  disposed  to  vote 
for  this  resolution,  not  because  I  am  in  favor 
of  an  east  and  west  line;  not  because  the 
people  of  my  county  are  in  favor  of  it,  but 
because  I  am  not  willing  to  say  that  the  peo- 
ple shall  not  memoralize  Congress  upon  any 
subject  whatever. 

Mr.  COGGS  WELL.  As  I  desire  that  there 
should  be  a  full  Convention  when  the  vote  is 
taken.     I  move  a  call  of  the  Convention. 

A  call  was  ordered,  and  the  roll  being  called, 
Messrs.  Ayer,  Lyle,  Walker  and  Wintell 
failed  to  answer  to  their  names. 

The  Sergeant-at-Arms  was  directed  to  re- 
port the  absentees  in  their  seats. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  am  informed  that  ilr. 
Ater  has  been  excused. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  would  state  that  Mr. 
Ayer  did  apply  to  the  conunittee  on  Leave  of 
Absence,  to  be  excused,  as  there  was  an  ab- 
solute necessity  for  his  going  home. 

Mr.  SHELDON.  I  would  state  that  he  is 
not  expected  to  return. 

Mr.  CLEGHORN.  I  move  that  aU  further 
proceeding  under  the  call  be  dispensed  with. 

The  motion  was  not  agreed  to. 

Mr.  BATES,  after  an  interval  of  twenty 
minutes,  moved  to  reconsider  the  vote  by 


470 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES—Feiday,  August  14. 


which  the  Convention  refused  to  suspend  all 
further  proceedings  under  the  call. 

The  motion  to  reconsider  prevailed,  and 
then  aU  further  proceedings  under  the  call 
were  dispensed  with. 

The  question  recurring  upon  the  passage 
of  the  resolution. 

Mr.  COGGS  WELL  demanded  the  yeas  and 
nays. 

The  yeas  and  nays  were  ordered,  and  the 
roll  being  called,  it  was  decided  in  the  negative, 
yeas  26,  nays  31,  as  follows  : 

Feas— Messrs.  Anderson,  Billings,  BoUes,  But- 
ler, Cleghorn,  Colburn,  Coggswell,  Coe,.  Davis* 
Duley,  Gerrish,  Harding,  Hanson,  Holley,  King, 
Mantor,  McCann,  McKune,  McClure,  Mills,  Peck- 
ham,  Bobbins,  Thompson,  Watson,  Wilson  and 
Mr.  President.— 26. 

Nays.' — Messrs.  Aldrich,  Baldwin,  Bates,  Bar- 
tholomew, Cederstam,  Coombs,  Dickerson,  Eschlie, 
Foster,  Folaom,  Galbraith,  Hall,  Hayden,  Hudson, 
Kemp,  Lowe,  Messer,  Morgan,  Murphy,  North, 
Phelps,  Perkins,  Putnam,  Russell,  Stannard,  Shel- 
don, Secombe,  Smith,  Vaughn,  Walker  and  Wi- 
nell.— 31. 

So  the  resolution  was  rejected. 

Mr.  ALDRICH.  I  move  to  reconsider  the 
vote  just  taken,  and  also  move  to  lay  the  mo- 
tion to  reconsider  on  the  table. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  Is  that  motion  de- 
batable ? 

The  PRESIDENT.     It  is  not. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  I  want  to  know  if 
the  gentleman  can  compound  those  two  mo- 
tions, so  that  members  of  this  Convention 
cannot  express  their  views  and  sentiments  in 
regard  to  this  matter. 

The  PRESIDENT.  It  is  in  accordance 
with  the  practice  in  Congress  to  move  to  re- 
consider and  to  move,  at  the  same  time,  to 
lay  the  motion  to  reconsider  upon  the  table. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  I  am  aware  that  a  mere 
motion  to  lay  upon  the  table  is  not  debatable, 
but  a  motion  to  reconsider,  coupled  with  a 
motion  to  lay  upon  the  table,  it  seems  to  me 
is  debatable. 

The  PRESIDENT.  A  motion  to  lay  upon 
the  table  is  not  debatable,  and  it  is  not  in  or- 
der to  debate  the  main  question  after  a  mo- 
tion is  made  to  lay  the  main  question  on  the 
table. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  would  inquire  if,  before 
a  motion  is  seconded,  another  motion  can  be 
made  to  lay  tlie  previous  motion  upon  the 
table? 


The  PRESIDENT.  The  Chair  thinks  that 
can  be  done  in  such  a  case  as  this,  and  such 
is  the  practice  in  Congress. 

Mr.  WILSON.  I  rise  to  a  point  of  order. 
Has  any  man  a  right  to  get  up  and  make  two 
motions  at  the  same  time,  at  one  standing  ? 
I  think  he  has  not. 

The  PRESIDENT.  The  Chair  has  decided 
the  question,  and  if  the  gentlemap  wishes  to 
take  an  appeal,  it  is  his  privilege. 

Mr.  McCLURE.  I  do  not  understand  that 
the  motion  has  been  seconded,  and  therefore 
it  is  not  before  the  Convention.  . 

The  PRESIDENT.  The  Chau-  heard  a 
second. 

Mr.  WILSON.  Which  motion  was  the 
second  to  ?  Was  there  any  designation  as  to 
which  it  was  to  ? 

The  PRESIDENT.  The  motion  of  the 
gentleman  from  Hennepin  County  was  sec- 
onded. 

Mr.  WILSON.  I  ask  for  information, 
which  motion  was  seconded ;  or  were  both 
motions  seconded? 

The  PRESIDENT.  The  motion  to  lay 
upon  the  table  was  seconded. 

Mr.  WILSON.  If  the  motion  to  reconsider 
was  not  seconded  it  was  no  motion,  and  there 
is  nothing  for  the  second  motion  to  stand 
upon. 

The  PRESIDENT.  The  Chair  has  replied 
to  the  gentleman,  that  it  is  customary  in  legis- 
lative bodies — in  Congress  certainly — for  a 
gentleman  to  move  to  reconsider  a  vote,  and 
at  the  same  time  to  move  to  lay  that  motion 
on  the  table,  and  if  the  latter  motion  is  sec- 
onded the  motion  is  put  by  the  Speaker  or 
presiding  officer,  and  if  carried  a  reconsidera- 
tion does  not  take  place. 

Mr.  WILSON.  The  Chair  does  not  under- 
stand my  point.  The  practice  in  Congress  is 
to  make  a  motion  to  reconsider,  and  that  be- 
ing seconded,  then  to  move  to  lay  that  motion 
upon  the  table.  There  was  no  second  to  tlie 
motion  to  reconsider  in  this  case.  The  other 
question  too,  as  to  the  right  of  a  member  to 
make  two  motions  at  one  standing,  so  as  not 
to  allow  another  member  to  get  the  floor,  is 
also  a  question  to  which  I  think  there  are  two 
sides,  and  the  Chair  seems  to  have  taken  the 
one  I  cannot  take. 

Mr.  ALDRICH.  I  would  like  to  say  a 
word  by   way  of   explanation.     It  is   well 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Feidat,  August  14. 


471 


known  that  tliis  question  has  already  occupied 
a  great  deal  of  time.  I  have  refrained  from 
saying  anything  one  way  or  the  other.  It  is 
a  matter  of  importance  and  interest  to  the 
people  whom  I  in  part  represent.  It  is  also  well 
known  that  every  gentleman  here  is  anxious 
to  get  through  with  our  business  and  go  home, 
and  myself  as  much  so  as  any  gentleman. 
The  object  of  my  motion  was  to  dispose  of 
this  matter,  so  that  we  could  go  on  with  some- 
thing else,  and  complete,  as  soon  as  possible, 
the  work  we  have  before  us. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL  demanded  the  yeas  and 
nays  upon  the  motion  to  lay  upon  the  table. 

The  yeas  and  nays  were  ordered,  and  the 
question  being  taken,  it  was  decided  in  the 
affirmative,  yeas  thirty,  nays  twenty-eight,  as 
follows : 

Yeas — Messrs.  Aldrich,  Baldwin,  Bates,  Bar- 
tholomew, Cederstam,  Coombs,  Dickerson,  Eschlie, 
Foster,  Folsom,  Galbraith,  Hall,  Hayden,  Kemp, 
Lyle,  Messer,  Morgan,  Murphy,  North,  Phelps, 
Perkins,  Putnam,  Peckham,  Russell,  Sheldon, 
Secombe,  Smith,  Walker,  Winell  and  Watson. 

Nays — Messrs,  Anderson,  Billings,  BoUes,  But- 
ler, Cleghorn,  Colburn,  Coggswell,  Coe,  Davis, 
Duley,  Gerrish,  Harding,  Hudson,  Hanson,  Holley, 
King,  Lowe,  Mantor,  McCann,  McKune,  McClure, 
Mills,  Bobbins,  Stannard,  Thompson,  Vaughn, 
Wilson  and  Mr.  President. 

So  the  motion  to  reconsider  was  laid  on 
the  table. 

MILITIA. 

Mr.  MORGAN.  I  now  move  that  the 
Convention  take  up  report  number  twenty, 
upon  the  Militia,  and  proceed  to  its  con- 
sideration. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to,  and  the  report 
was  taken  from  the  table. 

The  pending  question  was  upon  the  amend- 
ment in  the  nature  of  a  substitute,  offered  by 
Mr.  FosTEB,  heretofore  published. 

The  substitute  was  adopted, 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  move  the  following  as 
an  additional  section : 

"  Sec.  3.  All  officers  of  the  militia,  (staflF  officers 
excepted)  shall  be  elected  by  persons  subject  to 
military  duty  in  their  respective  commands,  in 
such  manner  as  ahall  be  provided  by  law. 

I  would  simply  say  tliat  this  was  adopted 
in  Convention  yesterday,  and  the  substitute  of 
the  gentleman  from  Chisago  (Mr.  Stannakd) 
was  not  intended  to  cut  it  off,  though  by  a 
misapprehension  of  his  design,  his  substitute 


was  adopted  for  the  whole  report.     I  now 
move  to  reinstate  it. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  I  would  say  that  the 
gentleman  from  Fillmore  has  stated  my  inten- 
tions correctly.  I  did  not  intend  by  my  sub- 
stitute to  cut  off  that  section.  It  was  done 
inadverdently. 

The  amendment  was  adopted. 

The  report,  as  amended,  was  then  ordered 
to  be  engrossed  for  a  third  reading. 

taxation,  finance  and  public  debt. 

Mr.  CLEGHORN.  I  now  move  to  take 
from  {he  table  and  consider  at  this  time 
report  number  twenty-one  upon  Taxation, 
Finance,  and  Public  Debt.    • 

The  motion  was  agreed  to. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  I  hope  that  some  gen- 
tleman who  voted  to  strike  out  section  six, 
will  move  to  reconsider  that  vote,  for  I  see 
that  it  debars  the  State  forever  from  carry- 
ing out  the  intentions  of  any  grant  which 
may  be  made  to  the  State  for  any  public 
improvements. 

Section  six  is  as  follows: 

"Sec.  6.  The  State  shall  never  contract  any 
debts  for  works  of  internal  improvements,  or  be  a 
party  in  carrying  on  such  works;  except  in  such 
cases  where  grants  of  land  or  other  property  shall 
have  been  made  to  the  State,  especially  dedicated 
by  the  grant  to  particular  works  of  internal  im- 
provements, the  State  may  carry  on  such  particular 
works,  and  shall  devote  thereto  the  avails  of  such 
grants,  and  may  pledge  or  appropriate  the  reve- 
nues derived  from  such  works  in  aid  of  their 
completion." 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  At  the  request  of  the 
gentleman,  I  will  move  to  reconsider  that 
vote. 

The  motion  to  reconsider  was  agreed  to. 

The  question  then  recurred  on  striking  out 
the  section. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  In  reference  to  section 
six,  I  will  say  that  I,  for  one,  am  opposed  to 
the  State  being  a  party  to  works  of  internal 
improvements  generally;  and  I  think  it  is 
proper  for  us  to  limit  the  Legislature  in  that 
respect.  As  a  general  thing,  I  think  it  is  the 
opinion  of  a  majority  of  the  Convention  to  so 
limit  the  power  of  the  Legislature.  But  this 
section  merely  provides  for  an  exception  to 
that  rule,  in  order  to  enable  the  Legislature  of 
the  State  to  carry  on  such  works  of  internal 
improvement  as  are  particularly  public  in 
their  nature.    I  hope  members  of  this  Con- 


472 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Fbidat,  AiraTTST  14. 


vention  will  well  consider  this  thing.  I  find 
that  there  are  different  opinions,  some  being 
in  favor  of  leaving  the  question  undetermined, 
and  leaving  it  within  the  power  of  the  Legii- 
lature  to  loan  the  credit  of  the  State  for  the 
purpose  of  internal  improvements,  while  others 
are  for  restricting  that  power.  I  wish  a  full 
expression  of  the  opinion  of  members  upon 
that  subject. 

Mr.  LOWE.  I  do  not  often  have  occasion 
to  differ  with  my  colleague.  I  believe  I  gen- 
erally coincide  with  him.  But  in  this  ques- 
tion of  restricting  the  power  of  the  Legislature 
in  regard  to  loans,  I  feel  bound  to  differ  from 
what  I  believe  tj  be  his  opinion.  I  do  not 
think  this  Convention  ought  to  put  this  restric- 
tion upon  the  Legislature.  I  know  of  some 
instances  in  which  it  has  been  done,  and  in 
which  it  operated  mischievously.  It  was  done 
in  New  York,  and  it  was  found  that  the  Leg- 
islature could  avoid  the  Constitutional  provi- 
sion without  difficulty.  It  was  tried  ia  Cali- 
fornia, and  it  has  been  the  source  of  great 
calamity  to  that  State.  I  believe  that  the 
Legislature  can,  if  they  choose,  avoid  any 
provision  of  this  sort  which  we  may  put  into 
the  Constitution. 

I  am  opposed  as  a  matter  of  principle  to 
attempting  to  restrict  the  Legislature.  It  of- 
ten operates  badly,  though  some  times  it  has 
operated  well.  But  it  is  one  of  those  powers 
which,  I  think,  are  essential  to  a  good  govern- 
ment. And  we  ought  to  be  cautious  how  we  cut 
off  the  power  of  improving  our  State.  If  the 
people  exercise  proper  precaution  in  electing 
the  Legislature,  this  power  will  not  be  abused, 
but  if  they  do  not  there  may  great  evil  grow 
out  of  it.  It  might  be  well  for  the  Conven- 
tion to  lay  down  the  principle  that  the  people 
must  take  care  of  themselves,  and  look  well 
to  the  construction  of  theu-  Legislative  body ; 
and  that  they  must  not  look  to  _the  Legislature 
to  protect  themselves  from  the  machinations  of 
the  Legislature.  They  must  themselves  exer- 
cise a  strict  supervision  over  the  Legislature. 
When  I  see  any  departure  from  that  course,  I 
feel  confident  in  my  own  mind  that  evil  will  re- 
sult. The  people  should  never  be  lead  to  sup- 
pose that  Constitutional  provisions  will  exempt 
them  from  the  proper  discharge  of  their  own 
duties. 

Mr.  MORGAN.  It  seems  to  me  that  the  gen- 
tle man  from  Chisago  misunderstands  the  de- 


sign of  this  section.  In  another  report  it  is  pro- 
vided that  the  Legislature  shall  not  create  a  debt. 
This  section  provides  for  an  exception,  where 
they  may  contract  a  debt.  It  is  not  restric- 
tive in  its  character,  but  creates  an  exception. 
That  I  apprehend  was  the  intention  of  the 
committee  when  they  framed  this  article,  and 
if  this  is  stricken  out  the  Legislature  will  have 
no  authority  to  contract  debts  for  carrying 
out  improvements  for  tvhich  the  means  of 
payment  are  already  provided. 

Mr.  LOWE.  If  that  is  the  case  I  shall 
have  occasion  to  change  my  vote.  It  has  not 
been  presented  in  that  light  before.  If  a  pro- 
vision has  already  been  adopted  and  this  is  an 
ex  ception  to  the  general  rule,  I  shall  vote  dif- 
ferently from  what  I  intended. 

Mr.  KING.  This  section  says  that  the 
State  may  have  power  to  contract  debts  for 
works  of  internal  improvement  in  cases  where 
grants  of  land  are  made  to  the  State  for  par- 
ticular works  of  internal  improvements ;  while 
section  eight  of  report  number  five,  on  bank- 
ing &c.,  says  that  the  State  shall  not  be  a 
stockholder  in  any  banking  or  other  corpora- 
tion, "nor  shall  the  credit  of  the  State  be 
"given  or  loaned  in  aid  of  any  person,  associ- 
"  ation  or  corporation."  So  it  seems  that  this 
section  applies  to  specific  grants  made  for  spe- 
cific purposes,  while  the  other  provision  pre- 
vents the  State  from  becoming  a  stockholder 
in  a  banking  or  stock  company,  or  from  loan- 
ing the  credit  of  the  State.  It  is  my  impres- 
sion, if  this  clause  is  stricken  out,  that  the 
State  never  can  have  anything  to  do  with  the 
lands  given  to  it,  and  hence,  we  would  cut 
ourselves  off  from  the  bentfits  of  any  grants 
of  land  made  to  the  State  from  any  source 
whatever. 

The  question  was  taken  on  the  motion  to 
strike  outjthe  section,  and  it  was  not  agreed  to. 

Mr.  CLEGHORN.  I  move  to  reconsider 
the  vote  by  which  the  words  "  for  municipal, 
"  educational,  literary,  scientific,  religious,  elee- 
"mosynary  or  charitable  purposes"  were 
stricken  out  of  the  first  section. 

The  motion  to  reconsider  was  carried. 

The  question  was  then  taken  on  striking 
out  those  words,  and  it  was  not  agreed  to. 

Mr.  MILLS.  I  move  to  amend  the  first 
section  by  striking  out  the  word  "  eleemosy- 
nary." The  language  of  the  section  immedi- 
ately following  that  word  has  the  same  mean- 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Fbiday,  August  U. 


473 


ing  as  the  word  itself.  It  is  therefore  merely 
repetition  and  surplusage. 

Mr.  PERKINS.  I  should  prefer  rather 
that  several  other  words  should  be  stricken 
out,  and  that  that  should  be  retained.  It  is 
a  good  word,  an  appropriate  word,  having 
a  definite  meaning,  and  foimd  frequently  in 
the  law. 

Mr.  NORTH.  I  would  enquire  for  infor- 
mation as  to  the  nice  shade  of  difference  be- 
tween "eleemosynary"  and  "charitable,"  for 
in  my  mind  I  have  got  to  considering  them 
as  about  the  same  thing.  The  word  is  obso- 
lete except  in  the  law  works,  and  if  it  means 
the  same  thing  as  "charitable,"  and  I  think  it 
is  so  understood,  I  am  in  favor  of  striking  it 
out. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  hope  it  will  be  stricken 
out.  It  is  possible  that  in  explaining  this 
Constitution  to  the  people  we  may  have  a 
great  deal  of  trouble  in  explaining  this  word 
to  them.  My  friend  from  Fairbault  (Mr.  Peb- 
Kixs)  will  have  to  explain  it  a  good  deal. 
(Laughter.) 

Mr.  PERKINS.  I  hope  my  constituents 
will  have  no  more  difficulty  in  understanding 
it,  than  the  gentleman  from  Fillmore  county. 
But  it  seems  to  me  extremely  foolish  to  strike 
out  a  word  of  that  kind.  But  I  presimae  if 
there  is  any  gentleman  here  whose  constit- 
uents will  not  be  able  to  understand  it,  he 
will  vote  to  strike  it  out.  Probably  that  is 
why  my  friend  across  the  way  (Mr.  Colbubx) 
goes  for  striking  it  out. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  did  not  mean  to  inti- 
mate that  the  gentleman's  constituents  would 
not  be  able  to  comprehend  it,  for  we  have 
ample  proof  of  their  good  judgment  and  sound 
sense  in  sending  their  representative  to  this 
body. 

Mr.  HUDSON.  I  am  decidedly  in  favor  of 
striking  out  the  word,  and  for  tlie  reason  that 
I  found  myself  in  the  chair  yesterday,  and 
while  reading  this  section  to  the  committee,  I 
came  across  this  word  and  could  not  pro- 
nounce it,  much  to  my  mortification.  (Laugh- 
ter.) Is  not  that  sufficient  reason  why  I 
should  vote  to  strike  it  out? 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  I  conceive  that  that 
word  embraces  much  more  than  the  word 
charitable,  and  I  think  it  is  used  just  as  it  is 
here,  in  contradistinction  to  the  word  charita- 
ble. You  will  find  it  in  all  works  upon  law, 
60 


and  the  Constitution  is  the  basis  of  all  law 
"Charitable"  means  one  simple  thing,  while 
"  eleemosynary "  means  much  more, 
means  aiding  and  helping,  either  by  charitv 
or  otherwise.  A  thing  may  be  a  charity 
while  it  is  eleemosynary,  and  it  may  be  elee- 
mosynary while  it  is  not  charitable. 

Mr.  WILSON.  The  adjudications  on  the 
real  meaning  of  the  word  "eleemosynary" 
have  probably  cost  a  great  many  thousand 
dollars.  The  real  meaning  lias  become  well 
defined  now,  and  it  is  well  settled  that  there 
is  a  difference  between  that  and  the  word 
"  charitable."  To  leave  it  out  might  be  the 
means  of  litigation  which  would  cost  a  great 
deal  of  money  again.  When  we  go  into  the 
courts  to  adjudicate  questions  under  this 
clause,  we  know  exactly  what  "  eleemo- 
synary "  does  mean,  while  the  lines  are  not 
distinctly  drawn  in  regard  to  the  other  word. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  There  is  m  my  mind 
a  case,  involving  the  meaning  of  this  word, 
in  which  the  ablest  talent  of  the  country  was 
employed.  I  refer  to  the  Girard  will  case, 
and  the  great  contest  was  whether  that  Gi- 
rard institution  was  an  eleemosynary,  or  a 
charitable  institution.  Webster  was  one  of 
the  counsel,  and  upon  the  argument  of  the 
cause  more  law  was  cited  than  I  ever  read. 

Mr.  NORTH.  I  would  respectfully  sug- 
gest that  if  there  is  a  chance  for  so  much  labor, 
and  so  much  expense  in  getting  at  the  nice 
shade  of  difference  in  meaning  between  those 
two  words,  perhaps  there  might  be  economy 
in  avoiding  that  state  of  things  in  this  State, 
by  leaving  the  word  out  entirely. 

Mr.  WILSON.  I  hope  that  will  not  be 
done.  I  am  astonished  at  the  t\im  put  upon 
this  matter  by  the  gentleman  from  Rice 
county,  (Mr.  Nobth)  because  it  does  not  hit 
the  question  before  us.  Nobody  pretends 
that  there  ever  was  a  litigation  as  to  the  dif- 
ference of  meaning  between  those  two  words, 
but  that  there  has  been  litigation  as  to  the 
exact  meaning  of  the  first  word. 

Mr.  BATES.  I  do  not  think  this  is  a  mat- 
ter of  very  great  unportance,  though  I  think 
there  is  a  difference  between  the  two  terms.  I 
consider  that  the  former  includes  the  latter 
and  a  great  deal  more,  and  I  hope  it  will  be 
retained. 

Mr.  NORTH.     Will  some  gentleman  point 
out  the  difference  between  the  two  words.     I 


474 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES—Fkiday,  August  14. 


inquired  for  the  information  to  start  with,  and 
I  have  failed  thus  far  to  hear  any  definition 
of  the  word  which  does  not  mean  "charita- 
ble." 

Mr.  MILLS.  It  is  an  institution,  giving 
charity,  and  the  terms  immediately  following 
it  expresses  the  same  idea.  I  consider  that 
they  are  one  and  the  same  thing. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  I  am  decidedly  op- 
posed to  striking  out  this  word,  for  I  have  a 
general  recollection  about  a,  distinction  being 
made  between  that  word  and  "  charitable," 
and  made,  too,  by  a  very  respectable  tribu- 
nal. I  do  not  distinctly,  recollect  the  point 
made  in  the  Girard  case,  but  I  do  distinctly 
recollect  the  distinction  made  in  the  Dart- 
mouth college  case,  and  if  I  understand  it, 
the  word  "eleemosynary"  as  applied  to  insti- 
tutions is,  that  it  is  a  donation  of  a  certain 
amount  of  money  or  property,  in  the  first  in- 
stance, as  the  foundation  upon  which  the 
institution  is  raised ;  as  was  the  case  with 
Dartmouth  College.  While  a  charitable  in- 
stitution is  an  institution  which  may  receive 
charities  or  bequests  from  time  to  time,  and 
whose  objects  may  perhaps  be  different  from 
a  mere  eleemosynary  institution.  Now  an 
eleemosynary  institution  may  have  for  its  ob- 
ject, perhaps,  other  and  different  things  from 
which  a  mere  charitable  institution  would 
have.  A  charitable  institution  would  have 
the  dispensation  and  distribution  of  charity,  I 
care  not  what  it  consists  in,  while  an  eleemo- 
synary institution  may  differ  entirely  from 
that  whose  objects  is  charity  purely.  It  may 
be  an  institution  for  educational  purposes,  and 
that  certainly  would  not  make  it  a  charitable 
jnstitution.  I  am  perfectly  satisfied  in  my 
own  mind  that  there  is  a  clear  distinction  be- 
tween the  two  words  "  charitable  "  and  "elee- 
mosynary," and  I  think  if  gentlemen  will 
take  the  the  trouble  to  look  at  the  argument 
of  Mr.  Webster  in  the  Dartmouth  College 
case,  they  will  find  that  he  applies  the  word 
"  eleemosynary  all  through  in  contradistinc- 
tion to  "  charitable."    ' 

Mr.  ALDRICII.  I  am  in  favor  of  striking 
out  the  word.  I  want  a  Constitution  which 
all  can  understand.  I  do  not  mean  to  say 
that  my  constituents  do  not  understand  the 
meaning  of  this  word  ;  })ut  that  I  certainly  do 
not,  and  I  went  so  far  as  to  inquire  of  the 
gentleman  from  Winona,  whether  this  word 


was  Greek  or  Chippewa.  (Laughter.)  I  am 
afraid  too,  that  its  retention  will  endanger  the 
adoption  of  our  Constitution.  And  my  friend 
from  Fillmore,  I  believe,  has  gone  so  far  as  to 
say  he  will  vote  against  the  Constitution  un- 
less it  is  stricken  out.     (Laughter.) 

Mr.  FOSTER.  A  friend  near  me  says  he 
has  learned  considerable  in  regard  to  the 
meaning  of  this  word.  I  have  no  doubt  we 
all  have,  and  I  hope  it  will  be  retained  so 
that  when  it  goes  before  the  people,  and  they 
inquire  what  it  means,  we  shall  have  an  op- 
portunity to  display  our  knowledge.  I  think 
we  are  competent  now  to  become  teachers. 

But,  seriously,  it  does  strike  me  that  it  does 
mean  something  more  than  the  word  "  chari- 
table," and  that  it  ought  to  be  retained. 

Mr.  MURPHY.  I  hope  this  big  word  will 
be  stricken  out.  I  have  several  reasons  for 
it,  but  I  cannot  enumerate  them  all.  It  cer- 
tainly is  a  technical  law  term,  and  I  see  all 
my  friends  of  the  legal  profession  are  in  favor 
of  retaining  it.  Now  in  looking  over  the  Con- 
stitution from  beginning  to  the  end,  I  do  not 
find  one  single  word  which  is  applicable  to  my 
profession  particularly.  I  do  not  find  a  single 
medical  term  m  it.  Now  I  do  not  want  law 
to  be  put  ahead  of  medicine,  and,  therefore, 
I  shall  vote  to  strike  it  out. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  would  propose  a  com- 
promise on  this  matter.  There  seems  to  be  a 
great  deal  of  feeling  upon  one  sideband  the 
other,  and  I  propose  to  move  that  it  be  sub- 
mitted to  the  people  as  a  distinct  proposition. 
(Laughter.) 

Mr.  DAVIS.  I  desire  to  know  if  it  should 
be  submitted  as  a  distinct  proposition,  whether 
the  gentleman  from  St.  Anthony  would  not 
change  his  position  and  vote  to  reconsider  ? 
(Laughter.) 

Mr.  FOSTER.  I  would  inquire,  whether 
the  gentleman  from  St.  Peter  would  get  up  an 
entire  new  Constitution  ? 

Mr.  MORGAN.  There  is  a  distinction 
between  the  two  words,  and  one  that  is  ap- 
plied constantly.  Eleemosynary  institutions 
are  such  as  poor-houses,  asylums  for  the  blind 
and  insane.  Charitable  institutions  are  such 
as  bestow  charities  strictly  ;  for  instance, 
schools  and  academies,  whore  the  tuition  i.s 
given  to  the  pupils.  This  word  occurs  in  a 
similar  connection  in  many  of  the  Constitu- 
tions of  our  State,  and  because  of  this  known 


MINNESOTA  CONTENTION  DEBATES— Friday,  August  14. 


475 


ilistinction  between  the  two  words ;  and,  I 
think,  if  we  undertake  to  strike  it  out  because 
we  do  not  understand  the  difference  between 
those  two  words,  we  shall  commit  an  error. 

Mr.  SHELDON.  It  strikes  me  that  this 
word  is  an  important  one,  and  that  it  covers 
a  class  of  property  which  should  be  exempt 
from  taxation.  But,  as  this  word  has  given 
rise  to  considerable  ambiguity,  I  think  we 
might  obviate  all  difficulty  by  changing  the 
phraseology,  in  this  way :  strike  out  all  after 
the  word  "  mixed,"  and  insert — 

"But  burying  grounds,  public  school  houses, 
aud  houses  used  exclusively  fof  public  worship, 
institutions  of  a  purely  public  charity,  public  pro- 
perty, used  exclusively  for  any  public  purpose,  and 
a  certain  portion  of  personal  property,  may,  by 
general  law,  be  exempt  from  taxation." 

I  find  that  provision  in  the  Ohio  Constitu- 
tion. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  I  think  we  have  had 
enough  discussion  upon  this  important  amend- 
ment, and  I  move  the  previous  question. 

The  previous  question  was  seconded,  and 
the  main  question  ordered  to  be  put ;  and,  un- 
der the  operation  thereof,  the  amendment,  of- 
fered by  Mr.  Sheldox,  was  not  agreed  to ; 
and  the  motion  to  strike  out  the  word  "  elee- 
mosynary," was  also  disagreed  to. 

Mr.  SECOMBE  moved  to  amend,  by  insert- 
ing the  word  "  other"  before  the  word  "  char- 
itable" in  the  fifth  line  of  the  first  section,  so 
that  the  clause  would  read,  "  Eleemosynary 
or  other  charitable  purposes,  &c." 

The  amendment  was  not  agreed  to. 

The  report,  as  amended,  was  then  ordered 
to  be  engrossed  for  a  third  reading. 

IXTEBNAL   IMPEOVEMEXTS. 

On  motion  of  Mr.  DICKERSON,  the  Con- 
vention resolved  itself  into  a  Committe  of  the 
Whole,  (Mr.  Coe  in  the  Chair,)  upon  Report 
No.  22,  on  Internal  Improvements. 

The  report  was  read  as  follows : 

"  Internal  improvements  shall  forever  be  encour- 
aged by  the  Legislature  of  this  State ;  but  in 
no  case  shall  the  credit  of  the  State  be  pledged 
for  any  object  of  internal  improvement,  nor  shall 
the  Legislature  in  any  case  create  or  incur  a  State 
debt  for  this  object,  without  at  the  same  time  pro- 
viding means  for  the  payment  of  the  interest  and 
final  liquidation  of  the  same." 

Mr.  McKUNE.  I  move  to  amend  the  sec. 
tion  by  striking  out  the  word  "  forever,"  in 
the  first  line,  and  all  after  the  word  "  object," 


in  the  fourth  line,  so  that  it  shall  read  as  fol- 
lows: 
'  "  Internal  improvements  shall  be  encouraged  by 
I  the  Legislature  of  this  State ;  but  in  no  case  shall 
I  the  credit  of  the  State  be  pledged  for  any  object  of 
I  internal  improvement,  nor  shall  the  Legislature  in 
i  any  case  create  or  incur  a  State  debt  for  this  ob- 
j  ject." 

:  It  appears  to  me  that  the  effect  of  the  sec- 
i  tion,  as  it  is  reported  by  the  committee,  would 
be  to  repeal  all  the  restrictions  which  we  have 
:  placed  upon  the  Legislature  to  prevent  the 
'  State  firom  becoming  a  partner  in  any  public 
!  works  except  under  a  grant  of  land  to  the 
i  State  for  particular  purposes. 
I  Mr.  FOSTER.  I  move  to  strike  out  the 
;  whole  section.  I  tliink  that  section  thirty- 
!  six  of  Report  No.  eight,  and  section  six  of 
j  Report  No.  21,  covers  the  whole  groimd  of 
j  this  report. 

j      Mr.  McKUNE.      I  believe  the  motion  of 
j  the  gentleman  is  out  of  order. 

Mr.  FOSTER.     My  motion  is  an  amend- 
ment to  the  gentleman's  motion. 
j      Mr.  McKUNE.     WeU,  I  will  accept  the 
1  amendment,  as  a  part  of  my  motion. 
The  motion  was  agreed  to. 
Mr.  THOMPSON.     I  now  move  that  the 
conmiittee  rise  and  report  back  to  the  Con- 
vention the  report,  with  a  recommendation 
that  it  be  whoU}-  stricken  out. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to,  and  the  commit- 
tee rose  and  reported  accordingly. 

The  recommendation  of  the  Committee  of 
the  Whole  was  concurred  in,  and  the  whole 
report  was  stricken  out. 

PUBLIC    PBOPERTT. 

On  motion  of  Mr.  THOMPSON,  the  Con- 
vention resolved  itself  into  a  Committee  of 
the  Whole  (Mr.  Fosteb  in  the  Chair,)  upon 
the  report  of  the  committee  on  Public  Pro- 
perty. (For  Report,  see  proceedings  of  Au- 
gust 12th.) 

The  report  was  read  by  sections,  for  amend- 
ment and  discussion. 

"  Sec.  2.  The  people  of  the  State  in  their  right 
of  sovereignty,  are  declared  to  possess  the  ulti- 
mate property  in  and  to  all  lands  within  the  juris- 
diction of  the  State  ;  and  all  lands  the  title  to 
which  shall  fail  from  a  defect  of  heirs,  shall  rever 
or  escheat  to  the  people." 

Mr.  McCLURE  moved  to  amend  section 
two,  by  striking  out  the  last  word,  and  in- 
serting in  lieu  thereof  the  word  "  State." 


476 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Fbiday,  August  14. 


The  amendment  was  agreed  to. 

Mr.  COG GS WELL.  I  move  to  strike  out 
all  after  the  word  "  State,"  in  the  third  line. 
Those  words  which  I  propose  to  strike  out,  I 
never  have  known  used  before. 

Mr.  HUDSON.  The  very  same  language 
is  found  in  the  Wisconsin  Constitution. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  That  may  be,  but  I 
am  inclined  to  think  it  is  not  proper  language 
to  be  used  in  a  Constitution.  I  think  I  have 
"a,  case  in  my  mind  where  I  think,  if  this  pro- 
vision is  adopted,  it  would  work  a  hardship, 
and  contrary  to  what  all  of  us  would  say  was 
right,  just  and  proper  under  the  circumstan- 
ces. A  man  and  his  wife  were  killed  instantly 
by  lightning.  At  the  time  of  their  death, 
they  had  considerable  property  in  this  Terri- 
tory, and  they  had  an  adopted  son.  It  was 
well  known  among  the  neighbors  that  it  was 
the  intention  of  that  man  and  his  wife,  in  case 
they  should  have  no  heirs,  that  the  adopted 
son  should  have  their  property  after  their 
death.  An  investigation  has  been  made,  I 
understand,  for  the  purpose  of  ascertaining 
whether  there  are  any  persons  who  could 
possibly  take  the  property  as  heirs,  and  so 
far  that  investigation  has  proved  unavailing. 
They  were  persons  who  came  into  this  Ter- 
ritory from  England  a  short  time  ago,  and  the 
story  is  that  they  have  no  heirs  even  in  Eng- 
land. If  that  is  so,  it  seems  to  me  that  the 
adopted  son  is  the  person  who  ought  to  have 
the  property,  and  who  would  have  had  it  had 
the  father  and  mother  lived  to  will  it  to  him. 
Now  this  matter  should  be  so  left  that  the 
Legislature  may  take  into  consideration  cases 
of  that  kind.  I  have  no  doubt  in  that  case, 
if  the  parties  had  had  time,  they  would  have 
willed  the  property  to  the  adopted  son. 

I  can  conceive  of  many  other  cases  where 
a  provision  of  this  kind  and  character  in  the 
Constitution  might  operate  as  a  hardship,  and 
hence  I  think  we  might  a.s  well  leave  the  mat- 
ter with  the  Legislature  and  let  them  dispose 
of  it  as  they  think  proper  under  all  the  cir- 
cumstances. 

Mr.  MORGAN.  It  seems  to  me  that  the 
amendment  offered  by  the  gentleman  from 
Steele  County  docs  not  help  the  matter  at  all. 
At  common  law  where  a  person  dies  leaving 
property,  it  goes,  in  default  of  heirs,  to  the 
State.  Now  this  section  merely  adopts  the 
common  law,  and  if  it  is  left  out  it  does  not 


change  the  matter  in  the  least,  and  if  there 
had  been  such  a  provision  as  the  gentleman 
desires,  it  would  not  have  relieved  the  case  to 
which  the  gentleman  alluded.  The  case  must 
go  to  the  Legislature  anyvray. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  I  would  say  that  if 
this  is  incorporated  as  a  constitutional  pro- 
vision, the  Legislature  would  have  no  right  to 
depart  from  it ;  whereas  if  the  will  of  the 
common  law  should  obtain,  the  Legislature 
would  have  power  to  change  that  rule  of  the 
common  law.  It  is  with  that  view  that  I  of- 
fer the  amendment. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  The  instance  mentioned 
by  the  gentleman  is  not  a  similar  instance  to 
those  which  are  remedied  or  provided  for  by 
the  Legislature,  when  they  provide  that  such 
adopted  children  shall  inherit  property  in  the 
same  manner  as  though  they  were  heirs  by 
birth.  Consequently  upon  the  death  of  the 
parent  by  adoption,  there  would  be  no  defect 
of  heirs. 

The  amendment  was  rejected. 

Mr.  BILLINGS.  I  move  to  amend  section 
one,  by  inserting  before  the  word  "  river"  in 
the  fifth  line,  the  word  "  navigable"  so  as  to 
restrict  common  highways  tonavigable  rivers. 
I  think  that  is  in  accordance  with  the  ordi- 
nance of  1787.  In  first  reading  over  this 
first  section  it  seemed  as  if  the  intention  of' 
the  committee  was  to  give  the  right  of  com- 
mon highways  to  those  waters  only  which 
were  the  boundaries  of  the  State.  But  after 
looking  over  it  carefully  I  came  to  the  con- 
clusion that  the  language  will  make  common 
highways  of  waters  leading  into  the  rivers 
which  form  the  boundaries  of  the  State,  for 
the  language  is,  "  the  said  rivers  and  waters 
"  leading  into  the  same" — the  word  "  same" 
referring  to  the  rivers  and  waters  previously 
mentioned.  Now  no  one  supposes  that  we 
intend  to  give  to  individuals  of  other  States 
the  right  to  pass  up  and  down  other  waters 
than  those  which  are  boundaries,  unless  they 
are  navigable  waters. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  would  state  for  the  ben- 
efit of  gentlemen  that  this  language  is  an  ex- 
act transcript  of  the  section  of  the  Enabling 
Act  under  which  we  are  organizing  a  State. 

Mr.  BILLINGS.  The  ordinance  of  Con- 
gress of  1787  reads  as  follows : 

"  No  taxes  shall  be  imposed  upon  the  lands  and 
property  of  the  United  States,  and  in  no  case  shall 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Fkiday,  Acgcst  14. 


477 


non-resident  proprietors  be  taxed  higher  than 
residents ;  the  navigable  waters  leading  into  the 
Mississippi,  and  St.  Lawrence  and  the  camping 
places  between  the  same  shall  be  common  high- 
ways and  forever  free  as  well  to  the  inhabitants  of 
such  Territory  as  to  citizens  of  the  United  States, 
and  those  of  any  other  State  which  may  be  admit- 
ted into  the  confederacy,  without  any  tax,  imports 
or  duty  therefor." 

I  think  where  we  find  a  certain  word,  such 
as  the  tenn  ''navigable''  in  this  clause  I  have 
read,  which  has  received  a  definite  construc- 
tion for  a  long  number  of  years,  we  should 
be  very  cautious  in  excluding  them.  We 
should  observe  the  old  land  marks  and  not 
establish  new  rules  unless  we  can  see  a  de- 
cided and  certain  benefit  to  result  from  so 
doing. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  As  I  stated  before,  this 
section  is  a  transcript  from  the  second  section 
of  the  Enabling  Act,  which  the  committee 
were  of  the  opinion,  was  the  rule  to  govern  in 
this  case.  That  act  says:  "and  said  river" 
that  is  the  Mississippi  river — 

"  And  waters  leading  int"'  the  same,  shall  be 
common  highways  and  forever  free,  as  well  to  the 
inhabitants  of  said  State  as  to  all  other  citizens  of 
the  United  States,  without  any  tax,  duty,  imports 
or  toll  therefor." 

This  Convention  has  no  right  to  limit  it  in 
that  way.  Congress  has  made  it  a  condition 
that  the  waters  leading  into  the  Mississippi 
river  shall  be  free. 

Mr.  MORGAN.  I  cannot  think  that  Con- 
gress intended  to  make  every  affluent  of  the 
Mississippi  or  St.  Croix,  navigable  streams,  or 
common  highways.  The  reading  of  this  line 
would  however  imply  that  all  the  waters  lead- 
ing into  the  Mississippi  should  be  common 
highways.  Now  if  you  make  a  common  high- 
way of  every  stream  emptying  into  the  Miss- 
issippi, jou  cannot  erect  a  bridge  over  any  of 
them  because  that  would  be  erecting  an  ob- 
struction. With  that  reasonable  construction 
of  the  intention  of  Congress  I  believe  it  would 
be  perfectly  safe  for  us  to  introduce  the  word 
"navigable''  as  proposed  by  the  gentleman 
from  Fillmore  county. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  have  only  a  word  more 
to  say.  If  Congress  intended  to  make  all  the 
waters  leading  into  the  Mississippi,  whether 
navigable  or  otherwise,  common  highways, 
then  we  have  no  right  to  change  that  inten- 
tion of  Congress,  and  if  Congress  in  using 
those  words,  did  not  intend  that,  if  we  adopt 


the  same  language,  we  shall  not  intend  it. 
We  will  have  the  same  Uberality  of  construc- 
tion, that  the  act  of  Congress  will  have,  and 
we  are  entitled  to  nothing  more. 

The  amendment  was  rejected. 

Mr.  ALDRICH  moved  to  amend  section 
two  by  adding  thereto  the  words  "  for  the 
use  of  common  schools,"  so  as  to  make  all 
escheated  property  go  to  the  State  for  the  use 
of  common  schools. 

The  amendment  was  agreed  to. 

"  Sec.  i.  The  proceeds  of  all  lands  that  have 
been  or  may  hereafter  be  granted  or  set  apart  and 
reserved  by  the  United  States  to  the  Territory  or 
State  of  Minnesota,  for  the  use  and  support  of  a 
University,  shall  be  and  remain  a  perpetual  fund 
to  be  called  the  '  University  Fund,'  which  shall  be 
appropriated  to  the  use  and  support  of  the  '  Univer- 
sity of  Minnesota,'  incorporated  by  an  act  of  the 
Legislative  Assembly  of  the  said  Territory,  and  for 
no  other  purpose,  in  such  manner  as  the  Legislature 
of  the  State  shall  prescribe,  in  accordance  with 
the  provisions  of  the  said  act  of  incorporation, 
and  not  otherwise." 

ilr.  ALDRICH.  I  move  to  amend  that 
section  by  inserting  after  the  word  "  Univer- 
sity" where  it  first  occurs,  the  words  "  andal^ 
"  other  donations  for  University  purposes." 

The  amendment  was  not  agreed  to. 

Mr.  BILLINGS.  I  move  to  strike  out  all 
after  the  word  "fund"  in  the  fifth  line.  I 
move  this  amendment,  acting  somewhat  upon 
the  so  oft  repeated  objection,  that  we  should 
not  legislate  in  the  Constitution,  and  believing 
that  the  portion  I  move  to  strike  out  savors 
very  strongly  of  legislation  of  the  most  par- 
ticular kind.  That  part  of  the  section  which 
precedes  the  word  fund,  secures  to  the  Uni- 
versity of  Minnesota  the  grants  of  land  here- 
tofore made  or  which  may  hereafter  be  made, 
and  the  part  which  follows,  seems  to  my  mind, 
to  conflict  with  the  eighteenth  section  of  the 
act  incorporating  that  University.  That  act 
is  as  follows : 

"The  Regents,  if  they  deem  it  "expedient,  may 
receive  into  connection  with  the  University  any 
college  within  the  territory,  upon  the  application  of 
the  Board  of  Trustees,  and  such  colleges  so  receiied 
shall  become  a  branch  of  the  University,  and  be 
subject  to  the  visitation  of  the  Regents." 

It  would  seem  that  the  language  of  this  sec- 
tion would  imply  that  the  fund  received  shall 
be  held  and  called  the  "L'niversity  fund,"  and 
be  applied  to  the  support  of  that  sbgle  Uni- 
versity and  no  other.  The  language  may  not 
be  quite  broad  enough  to  embrace  that  idea 


4^8 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Friday,  August  14. 


fully,  but  it  certainly  has  a  tendency  that  way 
and  it  certainly  is  not  as  good  language  as 
that  of  the  act  incorporating  the  institution. 

Mr.  BALCOMBE.  The  gentleman's  ob- 
jection to  the  latter  part  of  that  section  would 
be  the  very  reason  why  I  should  vote  to  re- 
tain it.  Now  sir,  I  am  in  favor  of  having 
that  institution  located  at  one  place,  and  one 
place  only,  in  the  future  State  of  Minnesota. 
I  am  decidedly  opposed  to  the  division  of  the 
University  fund.  I  am  now,  and  always  have 
been  in  favor  of  fixing  that  institution  perma- 
nently and  of  making  the  fund  indivisable. 
Whether  this  Convention  is  prepared  to  do 
that  in  this  Constitution,  I  know  not ;  but  I 
believe  this  is  the  proper  place  to  do  it.  I  am 
ready,  so  far  as  I  am  concerned  individually  to 
do  it,  and  I  would  like  to  have  it  known  now, 
whether  it  is  the  intention  to  leave  the  Con- 
stitution in  reference  to  this  matter,  in  such 
a  way  that  that  University  can  be  shifted 
from  one  pkce  to  another,  year  after  year ; 
and  also,  in  the  second  place,  whether  the 
fund  is  to  be  left  in  such  a  shape  as  that  it 
may  be  divided  up  and  shifted  about.  If  such 
is  the  understanding  and  intention  I  give  full 
notice,  that  I  am  going  to  work  to  get  the 
University  removed  to  Winona,  and  if  I  can- 
not do  that,  I  shall  do  what  I  can  to  estab- 
lish a  branch  at  Winona.  And  at  the  same 
time  that  I  give  notice  of  that,  every  other 
gentleman  in  this  Convention,  who  represent 
a  different  town,  has  the  same  feeling  and  will 
give  the  same  notice.  Then  what  will  be  the 
result  ?  The  result  will  be  that  every  little 
town  in  the  State  will  be  bidding  for  that 
University,  and  for  a  part  of  the  fund  of  that 
institution  to  be  appropriated  or  expended 
upon  their  respective  town  sites. 

Now  I  say  that  I  am  in  favor — though 
perhaps  it  would  not  be  judicious  to  make 
such  a  provision  in  the  Constitution — of  lo- 
cating the  University  permanently;  and  I 
am  in  favor  further  of  making  the  fund  indi- 
visible. If  it  is  left  to  be  divided  up,  every 
little  town  will  be  trying  to  lobby  a  bill 
through  the  Legislature,  to  get  hold  of  a  por- 
tion of  it,  and  to  establish  some  little  institu- 
tion in  each  place.  I  happen  to  be  one  of  the 
Regents  of  that  University,  and  so  long  as  I 
am  such,  I  .shall  oppose  the  division  of  the 
fund,  and  its  appropriation  otherwise  than  at 
one  place  in  the  Territory.     I  am  satisfied 


with  the  location  where  it  now  is.  If  how- 
ever it  is  understood  that  we  are  to  have  the 
privilege  hereafter,  whenever  we  can  lobby  a 
bill  through,  to  get  any  portion  of  that  fund 
we  can,  for  a  branch  institution,  I  will  be 
ready  to  go  for  AYinona. 

Now  I  suggest  whether  it  is  best  to  place 
the  fund  in  such  a  situation  that  it  shall  be 
made  the  cause  of  corrupting  the  Legislature 
— a  subject  so  many  gentlemen  have  fre- 
quently referred  to  ? 

Mr.  BILLINGS.  That  speech  is  all  for 
buncombe,  and  nothing  else,  because  if  the 
gentleman  is  prepared  to  discharge  the  duties, 
which  he  says  are  most  unfortunately  cast 
upon  him,  he  should  have  read  the  act  of  in- 
corporation. I  am  ready  to  believe  that  he  is 
as  ignorant  of  the  act  as  he  is  of  his  duties. 
Section  twelve  says  that  "  the  University  of 
"  Minnesota  shall  be  located  at  or  near  the 
"Falls  of  St.  Anthony,"  and  there  it  is  fixed 
and  located,  and  if  it  were  not  fixed  and  lo- 
cated at  or  near  the  Falls  of  St.  Anthony,  I 
am  not  one  of  those  gentlemen  who  would 
pitch  in  and  take  it  away,  and  disturb  its  per- 
manency. Let  it  remain  there  forever,  and 
let  Winona,  with  her  Academies  entirely 
alone. 

Besides  it  is  not  in  the  power  of  the  gen- 
tleman or  of  any  Minnesotian  to  distribute 
the  University  fund  among  academics.  If 
the  gentleman  wants  an  institution  of  learn- 
ing at  Winona,  let  him  aim  at  something 
higher  than  academies.  That  idea  is  effect- 
ually repealed  by  the  eighteenth  section  of  the 
act  of  incorporation.  "  The  Regents,  if  they 
"  shall  deem  it  expedient,  may  receive  into 
"  connection  with  the  University."  Now  what 
does  that  "  receive  into  connection  with" 
mean?  Does  it  mean  a  division  of  the  Uni- 
versity, the  establishment  of  a  branch  here 
and  a  branch  there?  Not  at  all.  It  would 
be  torturing  the  language  to  say  that  to  "re- 
ceive in"  meant  to  divide  up  the  fund.  And 
what  may  they  receive  into  connection? 
"  Any  college,"  not  academy.  Now  I  am 
not  in  favor  of  diverting  one  dime  which  has 
been  appropriated,  or  may  hereafter  be  ap- 
propriated, from  the  purposes  set  forth  in 
the  act  incorporating  the  University  of  Min- 
nesota as  located  at  St.  Anthony.  It  suits 
me  very  well,  and  it  is  all  that  I  could  ask. 
I  would  oppose  any  legislation  for  diverting 


MINNESOTA  CON^TINTION  DEBATES— Friday,  August  14.  * 


47« 


that  fund,  for  crippling  the  resources  of  that 
institution,  or  change  its  location.  Is  not  the 
gentleman  satisfied  with  that?  He  cannot 
but  be.  But  that  does  not  meet  his  view  of 
it,  because  if  it  is  to  be  divertable,  he  Is  for 
diverting  it.  He  would  take  it  to  Winona. 
I  think  I  am  above  and  beyond  any  design  of 
that  character.  At  least  I  have  no  traps  for 
securing  any  portion  of  that  fund.  I  have  no 
plans  to  lay.  I  know  nothing  of  them.  "What- 
ever is  legal,  fair,  equitable  and  honest,  and 
comes  fairly  within  the  scope  of  my  action,  I 
will  do.  But  no  traps,  no  plans,  no  wire  pull- 
ing, no  "  skulldugery"  for  me. 

The  gentl'-man  says  this  act  may  be  repeal- 
ed. It  may,  sir,  and  it  may  yet  be  repealed 
by  that  gentleman's  influence,  and  vote,  who 
now  seeks  to  make  buncombe  by  making  it 
permanent.  I  am  opposed  to  its  repeal.  In- 
stead of  being  its  enemy,  I  am  its  fiiend,  and 
want  it  now  and  forever  as  it  is. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  If  I  understand  the  mo- 
tion of  the  gentleman  from  Fillmore  county, 
it  is  to  strike  out  all  after  the  word  "  fund"  in 
the  fifth  line.  Now  I  cannot  conceive  what 
reasonable  object  the  gentleman  can  have  for 
making  that  motion.  He  sa3-s  that  the  object 
of  the  section  is  to  legislate  in  a  direction 
opposite  to  the  act  of  incorporation.  Now  it 
the  gentleman  will  read  the  remainder  of  the 
section  which  he  proposes  to  strike  out,  he 
vrill  find  that  quite  the  reverse,  from  that  is 
the  object  of  the  section,  for  it  provides  that 
money,  being  a  perpetual  fund,  to  be  called 
the  "  University  Fund,  shall  be  appropriated 
''to  the  use  and  support  of  the  University  of 
"  Minnesota,  incorporated  by  the  act  of  the 
"  legislative  assembly  of  the  said  Territory, 
■  *  and  for  no  other  purpose,  in  such  manner  as 
"  the  Legislature  of  the  State  shall  prescribe, 
"in  accordance  with  the  provisions  of  the 
"  said  act  of  incorporation  and  not  otherwise." 
Far  from  trying  to  divert  the  funds  from  the 
channel  prepared  by  past  legislation,  it  dis- 
tinctly directs  them  in  that  cliannel,  and  pro- 
vides that  they  shall  not  be  taken  out  of  it. 
Now  I  have  a  word  to  say  in  regard  to  this 
University.  It  was  my  fortune  without  any 
consultation  on  my  part  to  be  placed  as  Chair- 
man of  the  committee  which  made  this  re- 
port. It  is  also  my  fortune  to  have  resided 
for  the  last  six  years  at  St.  Anthony,  the 
point  at  which,  and  previous  to  that  time  the  j 


!  University  of  Minnesota  had  been  located  by 
j  the  Territorial  Legislature,  and  I  presume  I 
might  be  excused  if  I  should  feel  a  little  more 
interest  inthis  matter  than  I  otherwise  should. 
But,  Mr.  Chairman,  my  interest  is  for  the  Uni- 
versity of  Minnesota,  and  I  say  to  gentlemen 
of  this  Convention,  from  whatever  part  of  the 
!  Territory  they  may  come,  that  rather  than 
see  the  L'niversity  of  Minnesota  divided  up  into 
colleges,  into  branches,  and  scattered  through- 
out the  Temtory,  I  would  see  it  all  removed 
— every  vestige  of  it,  to  Chatfield,  or  "Wino- 
na, or  any  other  part  of  the  Territory ;  and 
so  would  the  constituents  I  represent  here, 
rather  see  every  vestige  of  it  removed  from 
its  present  position  and  transferred  to  any 
other  part  of  the  future  State,  than  see  its 
influence  destroyed  by  a  division. 

Now  what  is  the  object  of  a  State  Universi- 
ty ?  The  very  term  itself  shows  what  it  is. 
It  is  to  encircle  about  one  point,  all  the  wis- 
dom and  all  the  intelligence  that  may  be  mth- 
in  the  province  of  the  State  to  encircle,  and  to 
send  out  and  diS'use  education  through  the 
whole  State.  It  is  the  object  of  the  fund,  ag 
expressed  in  the  act  of  incorporation,  to  pro- 
vide for  the  students  of  the  State  of  Minneso- 
ta, free  of  charge  and  expense  upon  their 
part,  enlarged  facilities  of  education.  It  is 
divided  by  the  act  of  incorporation  into  five 
departments, — embracing  all  the  necessary  de- 
partments of  instruction.  And  it  is  the  ob- 
ject, and  reasonable  intention  of  the  act  of 
Congress,  in  making  the  grant  of  land  that  we 
shall  a  State  L'niversity  one  and  indivisible. 
And,  although,  Mr.  Chairman,  it  was  my  de- 
sire, as  a  member  of  this  Committee,  as  I 
have  indicated  previously,  in  offering  an 
amendment  to  the  article  on  education,  that 
this  Convention  should  determine  that  this 
L'niversity  should  be  one  and  indivisible,  I 
did  not  ask  the  Convention  to  provide  for  that 
in  this  section,  but  only  that  it  should  be  put 
in  the  form  in  which  it  now  is,  —merely  ap- 
propriating the  proceeds  of  those  lands  to  the 
University  under  the  act  of  incorporation,  and 
leave  it,  rather  than  burden  it  with  other 
measures  and  liave  it  defeated  entirely.  And 
now  I  ask  the  gentlemen  of  this  Convention 
to  locate  that  University  permanently  either 
where  tlie  Legislature  seven  years  ago  saw  fit 
to  locate  it,  or  at  some  other  place,  and  pro- 
vide that  it  shall  remain  permanent.     I  ask 


480 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Fbidat,  August  14. 


then,  at  the  same  time  that  it  shall  not  be 
scattered  abroad  and  destroyed. 

Mr.  WILSON  I  move  to  amend  by 
striking  out  all  after  the  words  "support  of" 
in  the  fifth  line,  and  insert  "  a  university,  and 
"for  no  other  purpose,  in  such  manner  as  the 
"Legislature  of  the  State  shall  prescribe." 

Mr.  BILLINGS.  I  accept  that  in  lieu  of 
my  amendment. 

Mr.  WILSON.  That,  sir,  will  leave  this 
matter  just  where  it  is  now;  leave  the  univer- 
sity just  where  it  is ;  and  leave  all  the  lands 
that  have  been  or  may  be  appropriated  for  it, 
to  be  applied  just  as  they  have  been  applied, 
or  as  the  original  section  provides.  It  cuts 
out  of  this  section  all  this  minute  legislation 
and  it  cuts  out  of  the  section  that  part  which 
provides  for  the  adoption  of  a  charter,  of  the 
provisions  of  which  we  know  nothing.  We 
do  not  know  what  sort  of  a  bill  our  friends 
from  St.  Anthony  may  have  got.  We  sup- 
pose that  they  have  got  as  good  a  one  as  they 
could,  and  they  are  somewhat  celebrated  up 
there,  for  getting  good  acts  passed.  I  admit 
the  force  of  the  language  which  has  been 
echoed  and  re-echoed  through  this  hall,  about 
legislating  in  the  Constitution.  I  am  opposed  to 
it.  Leave  this  matter  where  it  is,  and  let  the 
Legislature  take  care  of  it.  There  may  be 
many  things  necessary  to  be  *  done  by 
the  Legislature  concerning  this  University, 
and  which,  if  we  leave  the  section  as  it  now 
stands,  could  not  be  done.  For  one  I  am  not 
here  advocating  a  removal  of  the  university 
from  St.  Anthony.  I  have  no  idea  of  such  a 
thing.  I  am  one  who  will  always  protest 
against  the  adoption  of  such  a  course,  but  I 
am  not  one  who  is  ready  to  come  here  and 
say  that  the  Legislature  shall  never  make  any 
changes  in  reference  to  it.  I  have  heard  it 
said  that  there  was  a  trick  in  this  location 
which  raps  in  this  wise,  St.  Paul,  St.  Anthony 
and  Stillwater,  comprise  the  Territory  of  Min- 
nesota; St.  Paul  shall  be  the  seat  of  govern- 
ment, St.  Anthony  the  scat  of  the  university, 
and  Stillwater  the  seat  of  the  State  Prison. 
I  understand  that  there  has  been  expended 
up  there  for  building  some  thirty  or  forty 
thousand  dollars,  and  I  will  say,  and  every 
gentleman  in  this  hall  knows  that  it  is 
true,  that  five  or  six  thousand  dollars  is  the 
very  utmost  that  ought  to  have  been  expended 
hitherto.  All  that  has  been  expended  over  that 


amount  must  have  been  expended  for  the  pur- 
pose of  preventing  the  people  from  moving  it. 
If  it  has  been  expended  for  such  a  purpose, 
while  I  am  willing  to  let  the  institution  remain 
there,  I  am  not  willing  to  encourage  such  a 
course.  People  do  not  to  come  Minnesota  for 
the  purpose  of  bringing  their  children  to  be 
educated  at  St.  Anthony;  and  I  say  there 
was  no  need  of  expending  more  than  six  or 
eight  thousand  dollars.  I  do  not  want  to 
make  any  further  provisions  respecting  it  un- 
til I  know  the  wishers  of  the  people  concern- 
ing it.  It  is  a  matter  of  legislation  exclusively, 
I  am  sorry  to  hear  my  friend  and  colleague 
(Mr.  Balcombe)  get  up  and  say  that  by  vo- 
ting for  this,  we  vote  for  dividing  the  Univer- 
sity fund,  and  that  we  are  in  favor  of  getting 
the  university  at  Winona  and  elsewhere. 
That  was  never  talked  of  and  he  was  the  first 
to  suggest  it.  We  live  in  the  southern  por- 
tion of  the  Territory,  and  do  not  expect  any 
such  thing.  We  are  to  live  in  the  State  and 
we  have  an  interest  in  doing  right  and  seeing 
right  done,  and  I  do  not  know  whether  the 
people  want  the  University  located  there,  or 
whether  they  want  us  to  adopt  such  a  pro- 
vision as  is  contained  in  thii  section.  I  do 
not  known  any  thing  about  it.  Now  all  this 
talk  about  dividing  the  University  comes  with 
a  bad  grace  and  has  a  bad  effect.  It  does 
not  meet  the  question  fairly.  Especially  does 
it  come  with  bad  grace  from  gentlemen  who 
have  voted  against  measures  of  protection 
which  the  people  need,  and  voted  against  them 
upon  the  express  grn--nd  that  they  savored  of 
legislation.  Is  not  this  legislation?  is  not  this 
taking  out  of  the  hands  of  the  people  what 
they  may  wish  to  change?  I  like  St.  An- 
thony, and  I  like  her  delegates  here,  so  far  as 
I  know  them,  but  I  like  other  places  just  as 
well.  I  do  not  know  that  the  people  want  to 
establish  that  institution  there  permanently. 
That  is  a  sufficient  reason  for  my  not  voting 
to  establish  it.  I  do  know  that  my  people 
did  not  send  me  hero  to  establish  any  such 
thing.  They  sent  mo  here  to  frame  an  or- 
ganic act  for  the  advancement  of  the  whole 
people,  and  not  a  particular  locality.  This 
does  not  savor  even  of  a  general  law.  It  is 
local  and  local  only.  It  is  legislation  and  mi- 
nute legislation  too.  And  when  gentlemen 
get  up  here  and  bluster  about  it,  they  ought 
to  take  a  retrospective  view,  and  then  they 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Fbidat,  Acottst  14. 


481 


I 


will  take  a  diflferent  course.  Now  our  oppo- 
sition to  this  section  is  not  because  we  have 
any  feeling  against  any  locality ;  not  because 
we  want  to  divide  this  fund,  for  we  protest 
against  any  such  thing;  it  is  not  because  we 
wish  to  remove  the  university,  for  we  have 
no  idea  of  that;  but  because  it  is  none  of 
the  business  which  we  were  sent  here  to  do. 

Mr.  NORTH.  The  gentleman  from  "Winona 
who  has  just  taken  his  seat,  repeatedly  alludes 
to  what  he  calls  a  trick  by  which  the  university 
was  located  at  St.  Anthony.  I  happen  to  be 
a  httle  better  acquainted  with  the  measure  by 
which  it  was  located,  and  I  am  happy  to  in- 
form the  gentleman  that  ^there  was  no  trick, 
none  whatever.  The  subject  of  the  Univer- 
sity was  not  introduced  into  the  Legislatvire 
at  all  imtU  after  the  capital  was  located  at  St. 
Paul,  and  the  prison  at  Stillwater.  The 
University  bill  was  introduced  as  a  sepa- 
rate measure,  independent  of  the  others  en- 
tirely, and  after  the  others  were  disposed  of. 
While  the  other  questions  were  being  disposed 
of,  I  think  not  an  individual  in  the  Legislature 
thought  about  the  University.  That  was  an 
after  thought,  and  I  claim  the  credit,  if  there 
be  any  credit,  and  the  disgrace,  if  there  be 
any  disgrace,  of  introducing  that  bill  and  work- 
ing to  get  it  through. 

That  gentleman  alludes,  too,  to  the  fact 
that  gentlemen  get  up  here  and  bluster.  Now 
I  respectfully  submit  that  the  style  of  oratory 
of  that  gentleman  comes  as  near  to  his  own 
description  of  a  blustering  style  as  that  of 
any^gentleman  upon  this  floor,  and  perhaps  it 
would  be  as  hard  a  thing  as  I  need  to  say,  to 
turn  the  picture  round  to  the  source  whence 
it  came. 

The  CHAIRMAN.  The  chair  would  re- 
mark that  it  is  not  strictly  in  order  to  say  that 
any  gentleman  blusters  in  this  Convention. 

Mr.  NORTH.  I  would  inquire  if  it  is  pro- 
per to  say  so  in  Committee  of  the  Whole  ? 
(Laughter.) 

I  was  simply  taking  the  remark  which  was 
sent  out,  and  sending  it  home  again  to  roost. 
Another  gentleman  is  .accused  of  trying  to 
make  Buncombe  because  he  advocates  a  per- 
manent locality  for  the  University.  I  would 
respectfully  submit  that  the  charge  would  be 
quite  as  appUcable  where  it  comes  from,  for 
all  I  can  see,  as  where  it  is  attempted  to  be 
appUed.  I  hardly  think  it  is  courteous  to 
61 


charge  others  with  improper  motives,  and  im- 
proper manner  of  advocating  what  they  be- 
lieve to  be  right  upon  this  or  any  other  ques- 
tion. 

Now  I  can  see — and  in  saying  so,  perhaps, 
I  come  in  for  a  share  of  the  charge  of  making 
Buncombe — I  can  see  some  reason  why  the 
University  should  be  permanently  located, 
and  why  it  should  remain  a  permanent  insti- 
tution without  the  liability  of  being  removed 
fix)m  one  place  to  another,  or  of  being  split 
up.  Gentlemen  speak  as  though  this  talk 
about  its  being  divided  is  all  idle  and  nonsen- 
sical. Now  gentlemen  know  that  there  are 
threats  of  having  it  removed.  Massachusetts 
can  incorporate  a  provision  into  her  Constitu- 
tion giving  a  permanent  location  to  her  insti- 
tution— Harvard  University.  Michigan  has  a 
provision  for  the  permanent  location  of  her 
University,  and  other  States  have  done  simi- 
larly. Now  if  there  is  any  institution  in  a 
State  which  it  is  diflBcult  to  remove,  and 
which  ought  not  to  be  removed,  it  seems  to 
me  it  is  a  University.  If  it  remains  perma- 
nently in  one  locality,  contributions  will  be 
made  of  a  valuable  character,  which  will  not 
be  made  if  it  is  hable  to  be  removed  at  any 
time.  If  an  institution  were  no  larger  than 
Yale  College  was  when  it  was  removed  from 
Saybrook,  it  would  be  of  comparitively  tri- 
fling importance,  for  when  that  institution  was 
removed  to  New  Haven  they  took  all  its  li- 
brary and  cabinet  in  a  one-horse  cart.  But 
when  an  institution  becomes  so  large  that  it  is 
not  capable  of  being  removed  easily,  it  seems 
to  me  that  it  should  be  made  permanent.  If 
gentlemen  are  not  in  favor  of  its  being  made 
permanent  where  it  is — and  there  is  no  more 
favorable  locality,  or  one  more  convenient — 
place  it  somewhere  else.  If  they  are  in  favor 
of  making  it  one  and  indivisable,  why  not  let 
it  stand,  and  take  it  out  of  the  danger  of 
temporary  legislation  ?  Let  it  remain  so  that 
it  can  acquire  a  character  for  stabiUty  and 
value.  It  seems  to  me  that  it  is  reasonable, 
right  and  proper  that  it  should  be  a  perma- 
nent institution,  and  that  it  should  have  all 
the  character  that  can  be  given  to  it  by  such 
a  clause  in  the  Constitution. 

On  motion  of  Mr.  HUDSON,  the  commit- 
tee then  rose,  reported  progress,  and  asked 
leave  to  sit  again. 

Leave  was  granted. 


482 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Fbiday,  August  14. 


On  motion  of  Mr.  KING,  (at  twelve  o'clock 
and  fifteen  minutes,)  the  Convention  took  a 
recess  until  half-past  two  o'clock. 

AFTERNOON  SESSION. 

The  Convention  re-assembled  at  half-past 
two  o'clock. 

PUBLIC   PKOPERTY. 

On  motion  of  Mr.  SECOMBE,  the  Conven- 
tion resolved  itself  into  a  Committee  of  the 
"Whole  on  the  report  on  Public  Property,  (Mr. 
Hudson  in  the  Chair.) 

The  question  recurred  on  the  amendment 
offered  by  Mr.  WILSON,  which  was  pending 
when  the  committee  rose  in  the  morning. 

Mr.  BALCOMBE.  When  the  motion  was 
made  this  morning  for  the  committee  to  rise, 
I  was  about  to  say  a  word  or  two  in  reference 
to  some  remarks  which  were  made  by  a  gen- 
tleman upon  this  floor,  as  to  the  motives  and 
objects  I  had  in  submitting  the  remarks  I  did 
this  morning.  In  what  I  said  upon  the 
amendment  proposed  by  the  gentleman  upon 
my  right,  (Mr.  Billings,)  I  said  that  I  was 
in  favor,  so  far  as  I  was  concerned  personally, 
of  this  educational  institution  being  perma- 
nently located  ;  and  further,  that  I  was  in  fa- 
vor of  making  that  fund,  appropriated  for 
that  particular  educational  interest,  an  indi- 
visable  fund.  My  colleague  took  pains  to 
state  that  all  those  remarks  were  for  Bun- 
combe. 

Mr.  WILSON.  Will  the  gentleman  per- 
mit me  to  explain.  I  did  not  use  the  word 
Buncombe  a  single  time  during  my  remarks. 

Mr.  BILLINGS.    I  did. 

Mr.  WILSON.  It  is  fathered  by  the  gen- 
tleman upon  the  other  side. 

Mr.  BALCOMBE.  It  must  be  that  my 
ears  are  very  much  at  fault,  for  I  certainly 
heard  the  gentleman  make  the  remark,  and  I 
did  not  hear  the  remark  from  the  other  gen- 
tleman. Now  I  think  this  kind  of  remark 
and  thrust,  under  present  circumstances 
more  particularly,  are  not  in  place.  I  believe 
myself  that  I  was  sincere ;  perhaps  I  was 
not,  but  I  think  I  was,  and  I  think  I  did  not 
make  them  for  Buncombe.  It  may  be  that  I 
may  be  mistaken,  but  that  is  my  present  im- 
pression. I  think,  moreover,  that  it  has  been 
known  for  two  years  to  many  who  sit  in  this 
body,  and  to  many  outside,  that  such  has 
been  my  opinion,  and  that  I  have  acted  ac- 


cordingly whenever  the  matter  has  been  pre- 
sented to  me — and  I  may  say  that  it  has  been 
presented  to  me  a  great  many  times  by  gen- 
tlemen who  happened  to  be  town  corporators 
in  Southern  Minnesota,  and  who  desired  that 
their  town  sites  should  have  the  benefit  of 
that  particular  fund.  As  I  had  something  of 
a  reputation  of  being  a  removalist,  I  was  ap- 
proached several  times  to  see  whether  the 
University  could  not  be  removed  to  some 
other  locality.  Now  while  I  am  sometimes  in 
favor  of  removing  seats  of  government,  and 
perhaps  other  things  which  are  mere  matters 
connected  vrith  some  State  policy,  I  am  de- 
cidedly opposed  to  removing  the  State  Uni- 
versity, and  I  am  in  favor  of  fixing  it  at  some 
particular  spot,  so  that  it  never  can  be  re- 
moved. Its  present  location  is  central  within 
the  State — as  much  so  as  any  we  could 
select. 

For  these  reasons  I  made  the  remarks  I 
made  the  remarks  I  did,  that  I  was  in  favor 
of  its  being  located  permanently,  and  that  the 
fund  should  be  indivisible ;  and  for  that 
reason  I  was  accused  of  making  a  Buncombe 
speech.  The  gentleman  was'simply  mistaken, 
for  if  I  were  to  make  such  a  speech,  I  should 
speak  in  favor  of  its  removal  into  Southern 
Minnesota,  where  I  am  veiy  particularly 
interested. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  I  did  not  think  I 
should  make  any  remarks  upon  this  question 
until  I  saw  it  was  pressed  in  certain  quarters 
with  an  earnestness  which  I  did  not  expect  to 
see.  It  is  true  I  have  kept  a  little  watch  of 
this  matter  from  the  time  the  attempt  was 
first  made,  to  have  this  fund  held  as  an  indi- 
visible fund,  and  I  did  not  suppose  that  the 
same  thing  would  be  attempted  in  a  different 
manner,  when  it  had  once  been  voted  down. 
But  I  find  the  same  thing  now  brought  before 
the  Convention,  though  in  a  worse  fonn. 

There  have  been  seventy-two  sections  of 
land  granted  to  this  State  for  University  pur- 
poses, and  that  is  to  be  a  fund  which  belongs 
to  the  State,  and  not  to  any  particular  locality. 
That  fund  is  to  be  appropriated  to  the  cstab, 
lishment  of  a  University,  and  it  cannot,  under 
any  circmnstances,  be  appropriated  to  any 
other  purpose,  even  though  this  Constitution 
and  the  Legislature  should  direct  otherwise. 
The  terms  of  the  original  grant  must  be  com- 
plied with.    In  my  judgment  it  is  not  neces- 


MINNESOTA  CONTENTION  DEBATES— Fridat,  August  14. 


483 


sary  that  this  Convention  should  pass  any 
rule  or  regulation  in  regard  to  the  matter. 
That  is  my  idea  about  it.  But  if  anything  is 
to  be  done,  I  desire  that  it  shall  be  done  in  a 
manner  that  shall  benefit  the  whole  State, 
and  one  part  or  parcel  just  as  much  as 
another. 

I  find,  also,  in  looking  at  the  history  of  this 
matter,  that  those  seventy-two  sections  of 
land  have  all  been  selected.  It  is  true  that 
the  title  still  remains  in  the  United  States 
Government ;.  but  upon  the  strength  of  that 
title  which  will  iiltimately  be  vested  in  the 
State  or  Territory,  individuals  have  gone  on 
and  made  a  selection  of  those  lands.  Now  I 
have  been  upon  some  of  them,  and  1  think 
they  are  very  valuable.  I  know  that  some  of 
them  are  worth  at  least  tliirty  dollars  an  acre 
to-day,  and  on  an  average  they  are  worth  ten 
dollars  an  acre ;  that  seventy-two  sections  of 
land  at  the  rate  of  ten  dollars  an  acre  would 
amount  to  upwards  of  four  hundred  and 
fifty  thousand  dollars.  That  amount  of 
money,  together  with  the  interest  which  will 
accrue  from  it,  is  to  be  appropriated  for  the 
benefit  of  a  University,  and  that  University 
should  enure  to  the  benefit  of  the  whole  State. 
Now  I  find,  in  looking  at  the  language  of  this 
report,  that  it  has  been  very  carefully  and 
very  cunningly  drawn,  and  I  find  that  certain 
language  has  been  incorporated  into  it,  which 
I  find  in  a  certain  act  which  was  passed  by 
the  Territorial  Legislatm-e  previously  to  this 
time.  I  find  in  that  act  that  this  University 
has  been  located  at  or  near  the  Falls  of  Saint 
Anthony,  and  here  I  find  to-day  men  upon 
this  floor,  coming  from  that  same  place,  at  or 
near  the  Falls  of  Saint  Authony,  urging  and 
requesting  us  in  the  strongest  terms,  to  have 
that  act,  which  has  established  that  Uni- 
versity, foimded  upon  a  fund  of  four  htmdred 
and  fifty  thousand  dollars,  and  the  interest 
which  may  accrue  hereafter,  made  a  part  and 
parcel  of  the  Constitution  of  the  State  of 
Minnesota.  Now  before  I  re-enact  that  law, 
which  I  imderstand  the  gentleman  fi-om  Rice 
coimty  had  the  honor  of  originally  framing — 
and  if  there  is  any  honor,  he  certainly  is 
entitled  to  it — I  say  before  I  propose  to  assist 
in  incorporating  that  law  into  our  Constitution, 
I  desire  to  look  to  some  other  parts  and  por- 
tions of  this  Territory,  and  see  if  they,  too, 
have  not  some  rights  in  this  matter. 


Now  in  the  first  place,  I  pretend  to  say 
that  that  amount  of  money  and  the  interest 
accruing  from  it,  is  sufficient  not  only  to 
establish  one  University  at  or  near  the  Falls 
of  Saint  Anthony,  but  branches  in  other  and 
diSerent  portions  of  the  State.  And  I  find, 
too,  that  the  gentleman  who  drafted  this  par- 
ticular statute,  had  that  same  thing  in  mind, 
and,  although  he  proposed  to  have  that  thing 
done  in  the  shape  of  Colleges,  or  something  of 
that  kind,  in  my  judgment  that  is  not  exactly 
the  right  way  and  manner,  to  say  the  least  of 
it.  Now,  sir,  if  this  fund  is  sufficient,  not 
only  to  establish  a  State  Institution  at  or 
near  the  Falls  of  Saint  Anthony,  but  also  to 
establish  branches  in  other  places,  it  does 
seem  to  me  that  other  localities  would  have 
the  right  to  speak  in  regard  to  this  matter. 
We  come  fi-om  other  localities  that  are  ready 
and  wiling  to  give,  not  only  three  thousand 
dollars — for  I  understand  that  that  particular 
locality  at  or  near  the  Falls  of  Saint  Anthony 
did  give  or  secure  the  full  sum  of  three  thou- 
sand dollars  for  the  benefit  of  this  University 
— but  to  give  fifteen  or  twenty  thousand 
dollars  for  the  purpose  of  seciuring  the  expen- 
diture, near  their  respective  neighborhoods,  of 
this  four  hundred  and  fifty  thousand  dollars 
or  the  interest  accrumg  therefrom.  It  does 
seem  to  me  that  if  we  mean  to  represent  the  * 
interests  of  our  respective  localities  in  this 
matter,  we  should  take  into  consideration 
some  of  these  facts  and  circumstances. 

Now,  representing,  as  I  do,  a  certain  portion 
of  Southern  Minnesota,  I  say  for  one  that  I 
ain  not  willing  that  this  vast  amoimt  of  money 
which  must,  and  necessarily  will  be  expended 
at  or  near  the  Falls  of  Saint  Anthony,  shall 
be  spent  there  for  the  purpose  of  building  up 
that  particular  place,  increasing  and  enhan- 
cing the  value  of  property  about  there,  while 
my  little  place  down  in  Southern  Minnesota 
derives  no  benefit  from  it  in  any  way,  sliape 
or  manner.  That  the  whole  of  this  thing 
should  be  vested  in  certain  Regents,  appointed 
by  the  Legislature,  and  having  no  power, 
perhaps,  except  what  is  vested  in  them  by 
this  particular  legislative  enactment,  I  am 
not  willing  that  it  should  be  done,  and  I  will 
not  have  it  done. 

Now  I  say  that  instead  of  coming  up  here 
in  solid  phalanx  and  attempting  to  push  this 
thing  right  through  as   a  local  messure,  it 


484 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Fbidat,  August  14. 


seems  to  me  that  we  should  look  at  the  mat- 
ter and  see  how  the  thing  stands.  Suppose  I 
should  come  in  here  with  a  proposition  not 
half  as  ridiculous  as  this;  suppose  I  should 
come  in  here  with  a  proposition  which  neces- 
siarily  must  and  will  come  before  the  Conven- 
tion, to  remove  the  capital  from  St.  Paul  to 
my  little  place  of  Owatonna,  do  you  suppose 
these  men  from  St.  Anthony,  would  be  in  fa- 
vor of  that  local  measure  ?  Do  you  suppose 
they  would  vote  for  the  removal  of  the  capital 
to  Olvatonna  or  any  other  place?  No  sir, 
they  would  say  that  is  a  matter  of  local  legis- 
lation and  we  did  not  expect  you  would  ask 
for  it.  Yet  it  is  a  legitimate  matter  before 
the  Convention,  and  it  is  within  our  province, 
and  we  will  have  to  act  upon  it.  Now  we  do 
not  ask  that  any  such  local  measure  shall  be 
passed  by  this  Convention.  We  know  it 
would  benefit  our  particular  locality  by  the 
expenditure  of  a  large  amount  of  money,  but 
we  know  it  is  a  local  measure  and  that  we 
have  no  right  to  press  it  upon  this  Convention. 
It  is  just  so  in  regard  to  this  university  fund. 
It  is  a  fund  given  by  the  federal  government 
to  the  whole  State,  and  instead  of  its  being 
swallowed  up,  as  a  certain  amount  of  it  has 
been  swallowed  up,  in  a  certain  place  illegally, 
A  it  should  not  be  done,  and  I  say,  that  with 
my  consent  it  shall  not  be  done.  It  shall  not 
be  done  by  my  vote  or  my  sanction  until  it 
has  been  submitted  to  the  Legislature,  when 
the  representatives  and  agents  of  the  people 
come  here  with  the  express  view  of  deciding 
the  question  for  themselves.  The  land  is  per- 
fectly safe  at  the  present  time ;  the  title  is  in 
the  federal  government,  and  if  the  Legislature 
has  gone  so  far  as  to  authorize  bonds  to  be  is- 
sued, let  those  who  have  taken  that  step  learn 
the  responsibility.  It  is  a  fund  given  to  the 
whole  State,  and  as  a  part  of  that  State,  I 
say  that  my  locality  shall  have  a  share.  I  for 
one  will  not  consent,  to  ramming  into  our  Con- 
stitution a  provision  locating  this  university 
permanently  at  St.  Anthony,  carrying  with  it 
the  expenditure  of  a  large  sum  of  money 
every  year,  which  is  calculated  to  enhance 
the  price  of  property,  in  that  particular  lo- 
cality, without  /establishing  branches  in  any 
other  portions  of  the  Territory,  when  there 
are  funds  and  means  .of  carrying  it  out ;  I  say 
I  will  not  consent  to  that,  and  that  my  people 
will  not  consent  to  it. 


Therefore  I  say  leave  the  whole  thing  with 
the  Legislature ;  and  let  our  agents,  the  Leg- 
islature, come  here,  with  the  express  under- 
standing that  they  shall  dispose  of  this  mag- 
nificent fund.  Such  are  my  views  and  senti- 
ments on  this  subject. 

Mr.  NORTH.  I  do  not  know  as  there  is 
any  use  of  discussing  this  question  any  fur- 
ther because  the  gentleman  from  Steele  county 
tells  us  he  will  not  have  this  or  that  done,  as 
though  he  had  made  up  his  mind  to  that,  and 
had  come  to  the  conclusion  deliberately  and 
had  the  power  to  carry  it  out.  If  that  is  so 
perhaps  we  had  better  stop  where  we  are. 
But  seriously,  if  there  is  any  reason  why 
there  should  be  permanency  given  to  that  in- 
stitution in  this  Constitution,  it  seems  to  me 
that  the  gentleman's  argument  shows  that  as 
conclusively  and  clearly  as  almost  any  one 
thing.  Now  what  kind  of  an  idea  can  that 
gentleman  have  of  a  university  for  the  State 
of  Minnesota  which  is  to  be  scattered  around 
every  neighborhood  of  our  entire  State  ?  He 
claims  a  portion  of  it  for  Owatonna  and  argues 
that  every  neighborhood  is  entitled  to  a  share 
of  it. 

Mr.  BALCOMBE.  We  want  some  at 
Winona  to. 

Mr.  NORTH.  They  want  some  at  Wi- 
nona. 

Mr.  WILSON.  We  want  nothing  at  Wi- 
nona. He  who  says  so  is  not  a  friend  to  8t. 
Anthony. 

Mr.  NORTH.  Well  that  seems  to  be  a 
matter  unsettled;  some  want  it  and  some 
don't.  And  up  here  at  Shakopee  they  want 
it.  Now  the  idea  that  because  a  University 
is  located  in  one  portion  of  the  Territory, 
therefore  the  people  of  other  portions  of  the 
Territory  have  no  interest  in  it  is  absurd.  I 
certainly  should  feel  no  interest  in  an  institu- 
tion cut  up  into  slices  so  small  that  every 
neighborhood  could  have  a  part  of  it.  We 
have  an^institution  of  that  kind  and  it  is  pro- 
vided for — our  common  schools.  Lands  have 
been  given  us  for  that  specific  purpose. 
Owatonna  will  get  her  share.  Congress,  in 
her  liberality,  has  made  a  donation  of  lands 
for  another  purpose  and  that  is  for  a  University, 
and  a  University,  I  suppose  means  a  University 
in  the  ordinary  acceptation  of  that  term.  It 
does  not  mean  an  institution  cut  up  into  such 
email  portions  that  every  school  district  in  the 


MINNESOTA  CONl^ENTION  DEBATES— Fbidat,  August  14. 


485 


State  can  have  a  piece  of  it.  Now  the  charter 
of  that  institution  provides  that  colleges  in  dif- 
ferent portions  of  the  Territory,  bj-  making  ap- 
plication may  become  branches  of  it.  "What 
more  does  any  reasonable  man  want  than  that. 
Does  he  desire  that  every  school  district  may 
have  a  share,  and  become  a  branch  of  the  Uni- 
versity ?  If  we  want  to  make  our  institution 
contemptible  and  of  no  use  whatever,  and 
leave  it  so  that  every  neighborhood  in  the 
State  may  clamor  for  a  share  of  it,  and  get 
it,  I  apprehend  that  the  $450,000  wiU  be  of 
very  small  service  to  the  State,  so  far  as  edu- 
cational objects  are  concerned.  But,  it  seems 
to  me  that  if  th&  fund  is  applied  to  a  perma- 
nent institution,  and  such  branches  as  come 
under  the  head  of  colleges,  it  is  liberal  enough 
for  any  portion  of  the  State.  "We  ought  to 
pause  and  look  at  the  consequenses  of  a  dif- 
ferent policy.  We  ought  not  to  hold  this  sub- 
ject up  perpetually  for  every  Legislatiure  to 
meddle  vrith,  and  to  see  how  much  they  can 
make  out  of  it.  It  ought  not  to  be  held  out 
as  a  temptation.  "We  ought  to  put  it  in  such 
a  shape  that  it  will  be  permanent,  and  give  us 
at  least  one  institution  in  the  State  which 
shall  b8  of  a  high  order  and  character,  and 
afford  every  facility  to  students  to  get  an  edu- 
cation as  thorough  as  they  could  get  in  any 
institution  in  the  United  States.  The  proceeds 
of  the  fund  will  be  none  too  large  to  furnish 
that  institution  with  the  necessary  libraries, 
apparatus  and  professorships,  and  to  aid  such 
colleges  as  may  be  branches  of  it.  We  ought 
to  look  at  these  points  carefully  and  give  the 
institution  such  permanency  as  similar  insti- 
tutions have  in  other  States. 

Mr.  BATES.  Mr.  Chairman  :  thus  far  in 
this  discussion  I  have  not  participated,  from 
the  fact,  that  I  represent,  in  part,  the  district 
in  which  the  University  is  located,  and  that 
it  might  be  thought,  perhaps,  I  might  be  in- 
fluenced by  local  prejudice.  But  this  is  a 
question,  sir,  which  should  rise  above  all  local 
prejudice.  "Whatever  views  may  be  enter- 
tained l5y  others,  I  consider  it  no  great  mat- 
ter whether  the  University  were  located  at 
Hastings,  Rochester,  "Winona,  or  any  other 
part  of  the  Territory;  but  it  is  of  the  first  im- 
portance to  my  mind,  that  wherever  the  loca- 
tion is,  it  should  be  permanent.  The  people 
should  feel  that  it  is  a  permanent  thing,  and 
not  subject  to  be  removed  at  any  time.    And, 


in  the  second  place,  it  is  necessary  that  it 
should  have  a  large  and  permanent  fund.  One 
gentleman,  estimating  this  University  fund  at 
$450,000,  considered  that  it  ought  to  be  dis- 
tributed in  various  parts  of  the  State.  But 
$450,000  is  not  a  large  fund  for  a  University. 
It  is  a  small  fund  compared  with  that  of  simi- 
lar institutions  in  the  old  world ;  and  there 
are  colleges  in  our  land  with  endowments  of 
double  that  amount.  Perhaps  the  gentleman 
would  have  a  system  of  education  here  some- 
thing like  that  in  the  State  of  Ohio,  where 
there  are  twenty-three  separate  institutions 
of  learning,  and  yet  hardly  one  of  them  really 
worthy  of  the  name  of  a  college ;  whereas,  if 
that  people  had  united  their  ample  fund,  and 
put  it  all  into  one  University,  they  would  have 
built  up  an  institution  of  the  highest  utility, 
and  worthy  of  that  great  State.  As  it  is, 
their  young  men  do  not,  as  a  general  thing 
attend  their  own  schools,  which  are  almost  all 
laboring  imder  the  depressions  of  debt.  This 
is  an  example  we  should  by  all  means  avoid. 
But,  if  we  adopt  the  amendment,  I  cannot  but 
fear,  that,  instead  of  having  one  State  Univer- 
sity, everyway  creditable  and  prosperous,  and 
permanent,  with  all  its  professorships  regularly 
endowed,  we  shall  have  a  httle  college  located 
here  and  there,  of  little  advantage  to  the  peo- 
ple, and  in  no  way  calculated  to  give  dignity 
and  character  [to  the  literary  institutions  of 
our  country. 

Mr.  "WILSON.  Mr.  Chaibmax  :  I  would 
like  to  ask  two  or  three  questions  of  some 
gentleman  knowing  the  facts.  I  would  like 
to  know  what  improvements  have  been  made 
on  those  University  lands,  and  of  what  order? 
What  preparations  there  are  for  further  im- 
provements? and  how  much  they  will  be 
worth  when  done  ? 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  Mr.  Chaibman:  I  will 
state  as  far  as  I  know :  though  the  facts  are 
doubtless  more  completely  within  the  know- 
ledge of  the  gentleman  from  Winona,  (Mr. 
Balcombe)  who,  gentlemen  say,  has  been 
making  buncombe  speeches  on  this  subject. 

In  the  first  place,  immediately  after  the 
incorporation  of  this  University — there  being 
then  no  funds,  no  lands,  and  no  income  of  any 
kind;  and  it  being  provided  in  the  act  of  in- 
corporation that  a  preparatory  department 
might  be  instituted  immediately,  certain  citi- 
zens of  the  Territory — not  particularly  those 


486 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Feiday,  August  14. 


of  St.  Anthony,  because  St.  Anthony  has 
never  claimed  the  privilege  of  doing  every- 
thing for  this  University — certain  citizens  of 
the  Territory  contributed  some  three  or  four 
thousand  dollars — the  gentleman  from  Steele 
county  will  accept  of  this. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  Yes,  sir ;  raised  by 
the  citizens  of  the  Territory. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  These  citizens  of  the  Ter- 
ritory raised  some  three  or  four  thousand  dol- 
lars, and  therewith  the  Regents  erected  a 
wooden  building  upon  a  lot  in  St.  x\nthony, 
which  was  occupied  for  their  school  purposes 
some  three  or  four  years.  This  being  in  the 
centre  of  the  city  of  St.  Anthony,  and  there 
not  being  sufficient  room  for  the  University, 
the  building  was  disposed  of  by  the  Regents, 
and  another  location  was  made  about  half  a 
mile  from  that,  where  twenty-seven  acres  of 
ground  were  purchased  at  an  expense  of 
about  $5,000.  The  $3,000  realized  from  the 
sale  of  the  old  building,  were  put  in  for  the 
purchase. 

Mr.  WILSON.  How  did  they  pay  the 
other  two  thousand  dollars  ? 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  The  other  two  thousand 
dollars  were  paid  in  the  manner  I  am  about 
to  state.  Some  two  years  ago,  the  Legisla- 
ture authorized  the  Regents  to  raise  money 
by  bond  and  mortgage — to  what  amount  I 
am  not  able  to  tell  exactly — for  the  purpose 
of  going  on  to  erect  University  buildings  in 
accordance  with  the  original  act  of  incorpora- 
tion, by  which  it  was  provided  that  the  Re- 
gents might  erect  buildings  for  University 
purposes.  That  sum  of  money,  whatever  it 
was,  has  been,  and  is  now  being  applied  to  the 
erection,  upon  this  new  site,  of  a  stone  build- 
ing, which  is  intended  as  one  wing  of  the 
University — a  draught  of  which  has  been  in 
existence  some  three  or  four  years,  and  may 
be  seen  in  the  office  of  the  Secretary  of  the 
Territory.  It  is  open  to  the  inspection  of  all. 
But  what  precise  sum  of  money  has  been  ex- 
pended, or  is  to  be  expended,  on  this  building, 
I  am  not  able  to  inform  the  gentleman.  I 
know,  however,  that  that  University  ground, 
that  was  purchased  at  about  $5,000,  is  worth 
not  less  than  forty  thousand  dollars  at  the 
present  time. 

Mr.  MURPHY.  Mr.  Chair-man:  Three 
thousand  dollars  of  that  sum  was  raised  by 
the  sale  of  the  property  contributed  by  friends 


of  the  institution,  and  the  remaining  two 
thousand  from  the  proceeds  of  bond  and 
mortgage  on  the  pine  lands  of  the  University. 

Mr.  WILSON.  .Mr.  Chairman:  I  would 
like  to  know  to  what  amount  these  lands  have 
been  mortgaged,  if  any  gentleman  can  tell 
me.  Even  echo  does  not  answer,  Mr.  Chair- 
srAN.  As  far  as  I  can  see  into  this  matter, 
the  further  you  go,  the  worse  it  looks.  Sir, 
there  is  not  a  town  of  any  importance  in  the 
Territory,  that  would  not  to-day  raise  fifty 
thousand  dollars  for  the  location  in  it  of  the 
State  University.  This  is  no  black-mail,  Mr. 
Chairman  ;  it  is  something  fairly  owing  to 
the  school  fund  of  the  Territory. 

Here,  sir,  are  seventy-two  sections  of  land, 
making  forty-six  thousand  and  eighty  acres. 
This  land,  at  ten  dollars  an  acre,  is  worth  four 
hundred  and  sixty  thousand  and  eight  hun- 
dred dollars.  See  what  would  be  the  interest 
on  that  in  the  run  of  ten  years ;  and  then, 
double  that  for  the  expenditures  of  tlie 
students.  The  interest  on  nine  hundred  and 
twenty-one  thousand  six  hundred  dollars  at 
ten  per  cent,  would  give  an  annual  revenue 
of  ninety-two  thousand  one  hundred  and 
sixty  dollars.  This  sum  will  be  expended 
annually  wherever  the  University  is  located. 
Such  would  be  the  advantage  to  the  parties 
who  should  have  it.  Everybody  that  knows 
anything  about  colleges,  know  that  the 
students  generally  expend,  every  year,  about 
twice  the  sum  required  for  the  annual  support 
of  all  the  other  expenses  of  the  college.  I 
I  tell  you,  sir,  they  ought  to  give  us  a  bonus. 
Wherever  the  University  goes,  they  ought  to 
pay  largely.  It  is  due  to  the  school  fund ;  it 
is  due  to  the  common  interest.  There  are 
other  localities  just  as  eligible  in  every  way, 
as  that  at  Saint  Anthony  ;  and  if  I  were  in 
the  Legislature — and  the  developments  of  cir- 
cumstances might  still  further  modify  our 
legislative  action,  though  this  is  not  the  place 
to  make  these  changes — but  if  I  were  in  the 
Legislature,  to  any  place  that  would  put  uj) 
their  buildings,  I  would  give  a  shar^  of  the 
benefit  of  this  fund.  I  could  name  ten  or 
fifteen  towns  that  would  give  fifty  thousand 
dollars  for  that  location  ;  and  it  would  be  the 
best  thing  they  ever  did. 

This  thing  of  special  legislation  in  our 
Constitution,  for  the  benefit  of  any  particular 
people,  is  wrong.    There  ia  no  necessity  for  it. 


MINNESOTA  CONYENTION  DEBATES— Fbidat,  Acgust  14. 


487 


We  do  not  come  here  wkh  information  of 
these  matters.  No  man  here  knows  enough 
about  such  questions  to  vote  intelligently. 
We  do  not  know  what  to  do  with  them.  The 
men  who  think  we  are  in  favor  of  squander- 
ing this  fund,  and  scattering  it  abroad  over 
the  Territory,  are  altogether  mistaken.  We 
are  every  one  in  favor  of  preserving  it,  and 
taking  care  of  it.  I  stop  short  of  no  man  in 
my  desire  for  this  to  become  a  "number  one'' 
institution. 

Mr.  MORGAN.  Mr.  Chaibjian  :  In  the 
last  report  of  the  Regents  of  the  University 
it  is  stated,  that  about  twenty-five  thousand 
acres  of  the  University  lands  had  been  located, 
and  that  the  larger  portion  had  been  located 
in  the  pine  region.  Everybody  at  all  acquain- 
ted with  pine  lands,  knows  their  price  to 
range  from  three  to  five  dollars  an  acre. 
What  is  the  character  of  the  lands  located  in 
other  parts  of  the  Territory  I  do  not  know. 
Some  of  them  may  be  very  good  lands.  I 
understand  the  selections  have  been  made 
with  care,  and  they  may  be  worth  ten  dollars 
an  acre ;  but  the  probability  is  their  value 
would  not  average  above  five  dollars  an  acre. 
As  for  that  portion  of  the  land  not  yfet  located, 
of  course  they  will  have  to  take  their  chance. 
The  location  cannot  be  made  before  the  sur- 
veys, and  then  the  Regents  iwiU  have  to  take 
their  chance  with  others. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  Mr.  Chairman:  I 
cannot  forbear  making  a  remark  or  two  more, 
in  reply  to  what  has  just  fallen  from  the  lips 
of  the  gentleman  fi"om  St.  Anthony.  He  says 
a  certain  amount — perhaps  about  one-half  of 
the  University  lands  have  been  selected  ;  that 
a  considerable  portion  of  these  selections  are 
pine  lands,  not  worth  more  than  five  dollars 
an  acre. 

Now  I  wish  to  be  distinctly  understood 
when  I  say  that  these  individuals  who  have 
had  this  fund  in  their  eye,  in  their  eagerness 
to  get  control  of  it,  have  overstepped  all  law, 
and  all  authority.  They  had  no  right  or 
authority  to  interfere  with  this  land  in  any 
way,  shape,  or  manner.  In  the  first  place, 
Mr.  Chaibman,  they  had  no  right  to  select  it. 
In  the  next  place,  they  ha'd  no  right  to 
mortgage  it.  In  the  next  place,  they  had  no 
right  to  encumber  it  in  any  way,  shape  or 
manner.  Now,  sir,  by  the  terms  of  the 
Enabling  Act,  we  do  not  get  possession  of 


this  University  fund,  any  more  than  we  get 
possession  of  the  school  fund,  tmtil  we  accept 
of  the  provisions  of  the  Enabling  Act,  and 
become  a  State.  It  never  was  the  intention 
of  Congress  to  give  up  their  right  and  au- 
thority over  these  lands,  until  we  should 
become  a  State. 

Mr.  BALCOMBE.  Mr.  Chaikmax:  The 
lands  which  were  granted  by  Congress,  never 
have  been  mortgaged ;  there  never  has  been 
any  attempt  made  to  mortgage  these  lands. 
Tliat  mortgage  by  which  the  regents  have 
raised  money,  is  upon  those  twenty-two  acres 
of  the  site  which  they  procured  by  other 
means  outside  of  the  grant  of  land  by  Con- 
gress, and  which  lies  in  the  city,  of  Saint 
Anthony,  and  upon  which,  also,  this  money 
has  been  expended. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  I  beg  pardon,  Mr. 
Chairman,  if  I  have  stated  aaything  incor- 
rectly. I  vmderstood  the  gentleman  from 
Saint  Anthony  to  state,  that  a  certain  amount 
of  money  was  raised  upon  bond  and  mortgage, 
and  I  took  it  that  it  was  upon  these  Univer- 
sity lands.  Now,  Mr.  Chaibman,  I  ask  that 
gentleman  whether  any  attempt  has  been 
made  to  encumber  those  lands  ? 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  Mr.  Chaibman:  The 
gentleman  fi-om  Steele  county  will  recollect 
that  I  stated,  that  money  had  been  raised 
upon  bond  and  mortgage,  but  that  how,  or  in 
what  manner,  I  knew  not.  It  has  been  first 
brought  to  my  notice  here.  I  know  nothing 
further  about,  the  mannner  in  which  the 
money  was  procured,  except  that  it  was 
authorized  by  an  act  of  the  Legislature. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  At  what  session  was 
the  act  passed. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.     A  year  ago  last  winter. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  Then,  Mr.  Chairman, 
we  wiU  have  it  imderstood,  that  these  lands 
are  not,  and  are  not  to  be,  encumbered  by 
mortgage.  But  now  this  does  not  support 
the  right  of  the  Regents  to  go  on  and  select 
the  lands.  I  do  not  undertake  to  say  what 
the  language  of  the  act  of  Congress  is,  but  I 
do  say,  the  Regents  went  on  without  authority. 

Mr.  SECO  MBE.  Mr.  Chairman  :  the  lands 
which  have  been  selected,  were  selected  under 
the  act  of  Congress,  setting  apart  and  reserv- 
ing seventy-two  sections  for  the  purpose  of 
the  endowment  of  the  University  of  the  Ter- 
ritory of  Minnesota.    They  have  been  select- 


488 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Fbidat,  August  14. 


ed  under  the  direction  of  the  Secretary  of  the 
Interior.  By  his  authority,  the  Regents  have 
made  these  selections,  and  sent  on  their  re- 
port ;  and  they  have  been  approved  by  the 
Commissioner,  and  marked  upon  the  maps  in 
the  GeneratLand  Office. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  If  that  be  true,  Mr. 
Chairman,  then  the  Congress  w^ere  fools  when 
they  passed  that  act.  [Laughter].  I  will 
read,  sir,  from  the  second  clause  of  the  fifth 
section  of  the  Enabling  Act. 

"Second.  That  seventy -two  sections  of  land 
shall  be  set  apart  and  reserved  for  the  use  and 
support  of  a  State  University." 

Not,  "  have  been  selected  and  set  apart," 
nor  "  to  be  selected  by  the  Regents,"  but — 
"  to  be  selected  by  the  Governor  of  said  State" 
— the  name  of  an  office  that  had  not  yet 
been  created ! — 

— "  To  be  selected  by  the  Governor  of  said  State, 
subject  to  the  approval  of  the  Commissioner  of  the 
General  Land  Office,  and  to  be  appropriated  and 
applied  in  such  manner  as  the  Legislature  of  said 
State  may  prescribe  for  the  purpose  aforesaid,  but 
for  no  other  purpose." 

Now,  Mr.  Chairman,  I  say  this  Convention 
have  no  authority  to  make  any  appropriation 
of  these  lands,  nor  to  make  any  location  of 
the  University,  because  by  these  terms  of  the 
Enabling  Act,  the  whole  thing  is  placed  in 
the  hands  of  the  Legislature  of  the  proposed 
State  of  Minnesota.  Mr.  Chairman,  it  may 
be  that  these  proceedings  of  the  Regents  are 
warrantable  and  proper ;  but  I  say,  if  they 
are,  then  the  Congress  of  the  United  States 
were  fools  on  the  3d  of  March,  1857. 

Mr.  NORTH.  Mr.  Chairman:  If  I  have 
to  correct  my  friend  from  Steele  county,  he 
will  bear  with  me.  He  seems  to  be  driving 
at  something,  he  does  not  know  what  exactly. 
He  seems  at  one  time  to  know  that  the  whole 
of  these  seventy-two  sections  were  worth  ex- 
actly $10  an  acre.  After  a  while  he  finds 
out,  that  not  more  than  half  the  lands  have 
been  selected.  Then  again,  falling  back  from 
the  wall  he  had  run  against,  he  staves  away 
at  the  idea  that  the  lands  have  been  mort- 
gaged. When  it  turns  out,  that  the  lands 
have  not  been  mortgaged  at  all — that  it  is  all 
waste  paper,  or  something  else ;  then  ho  de- 
clares roundly,  that  the  Regents  were  exceed- 
ing their  prerogative  in  selecting  and  locating 
the  lands :  and  thereupon  he  finds  that  these 
lands  are  withdrawn  from  the  market  by  the 


Secretary  of  the  Interior,  and  the  whole  Of 
this  is  done  under  his  direction.  And  when 
he  finds  out  that  the  whole  has  been  done 
under  the  direction  and  by  the  authority  of 
Congress,  he  suddenly  exclaims  that  the  Con- 
gress must  have  been  a  set  of  fools. 

But,  Mr.  Chairman,  if  Congress  have  been 
fools,  I  hope  we  shall  not  make  fools  of  our- 
selves in  this  matter. 

This  is  a  matter  entrusted  to  the  Territory : 
and  the  gentleman  supposes  that  this  Conven- 
tion has  nothing  to  do  with  it.  Now,  sir,  I 
suppose  that  this  Convention  may  guide  and 
restrain  the  Legislature,  and  restrain  and  con- 
trol its  action  in  reference  to  this  matter,  as 
well  as  anything  else.  And  I  hope  we  shall 
have  sufficient  regard  for  the  educational  in- 
terest of  the  State,  to  do  this  thing  like  men, 
and  not  like  boys. 

In  all  this  discussion,  it  would  seem  as 
though  these  grants  of  land  were  made  for 
some  pecuniary  benefit  or  advantage  which 
this  Territory  was  to  derive  therefor.  One 
gentleman  would  have  certain  towns  give  so 
much  towards  buildings.  Now,  I  suppose, 
with  deference,  that  it  was  not  the  object  of 
these  grants,  that  money  should  be  made  out 
of  them  for  towns  and  town  proprietors ;  but 
that  education  was  the  object :  and  that  that 
should  be  the  thing  to  which  our  minds  should 
be  directed  when  we  are  making  laws  in  re- 
gard to  them.  The  object  is  not  to  compel 
this  or  that  town  to  raise  all  the  money  they 
can,  but  for  the  purpose  of  raising  up  an  in- 
stitution, on  a  good,  substantial  basis,  that 
shall  educate  the  people  of  this  country. 

Mr.  LOWE.  Mr.  Chairman:  This  is  a 
subject  of  some  interest  to  me.  Having  spent 
some  portion  of  my  life  in  connection  with 
such  institutions,  I  have  had  occasion  to  no- 
tice some  of  the  workings  and  wants  of  such 
an  institution  as  this:  and  it  seems  to  me, 
that  the  idea  of  gentlemen  guarding  well  the 
integrity  of  this  fund,  is  very  reasonable  and 
proper.  I  am  opposed  to  specific  legislation 
in  the  Constitution ;  and  if  this  is  a  case  of 
specific  legislation,  it  is  one  of  the  cases  of  ex- 
ception wliich  I  should  be  prepared  to  make, 
I  believe  the  danger  is  gi'eat,  especially  in  this 
new  Territory,  of  frittering  away  the  funds  of 
tliis  institution  in  such  a  manner  as  almost 
entirely  to  lose  the  benefit  of  it.  We  all 
know  enough  of  the  history  of  such  cases ; 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Fbiday,  Acgdst  U. 


489 


and  how  the  whole  country  is  encumbered  by 
insignificant  colleges.  It  is  certainly  possible 
for  us  here,  to  provide  well  for  one  institution : 
and  there  is  nothing  we  could  accomplish  that 
would  be  more  honorable  to  ourselves. 

Most  of  the  objections  to  the  report  that 
have  been  stated  here,  appear  to  have  but  Ut- 
ile relation  to  the  case.  They  have  relation 
to  such  questions  as,  whether  St.  Anthony 
has  given  as  liberally  toward  the  University 
as  she  might  have  done :  or  whether  any  other 
town  might  not  have  done  more :  whilst  the 
main  point  is,  how  far  we  ought  to  provide 
for  the  permanancy  and  stability  of  the  insti- 
tution, and  against  all  unnecessary  and  capri- 
cious modifications.  If  it  were  possible  for 
the  Convention  to  provide  for  an  Agricultural 
College  in  connection  with  this  institution,  it 
might  be  more  in  accordance  with  the  great 
interests  of  the  State. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  By  the  act  of  incorpora- 
tion, a  department  of  Agriculture  is  provided 
for. 

Mr.  LOWE.  Mr.  CnAmjiAN :  I  did  not 
intend  to  address  the  Convention  at  any 
length  on  the  subject ;  but  merely  to  say, 
that  it  is  an  object  of  interest  to  me,  and  if 
wisely  treated  here,  will  go  far  toward  making 
a  good  reputation  for  this  Convention.  I 
hope  it  is  not  an  exceptionable  case  of  legis- 
lation. But,  if  it  is,  I  am  prepared  to  make 
the  exception.  I  will  go  to  almost  any  length 
to  prevent  the  diversion  of  this  fund  to  the 
purposes  of  other  institutions,  than  the 
more  important  and  useful  one  we  might 
have,  and  which  it  was  the  object  of  the 
grant  to  confer  upon  us. 

Mr.  BILLINGS.  A  stranger  in  locking 
upon  our  discussions,  would  suppose  that 
some  of  us  were  in  favor  of  having  a  trav- 
eling locomotive  University,  upon  wheels,  to 
take  it  where  we  could  get  the  largest  crowd 
and  the  most  money ;  that  we  were  in  favor 
of  diverting  the  grant  of  Congress,  and  put- 
ting it  up  at  auction  that  any  and  all  placeg 
might  bid  for  it.  Now  that  is  a  subversion  of 
the  argument.  The  premises  are  assumed, 
but  no  one  has  made  any  such  argument. 
We  say  this ;  the  institution  has  been  estab- 
lished in  the  Territory  ;  we  believe  the  fund 
is  much  larger  than  is  required  for  any  one 
institution.  If  that  be  the  fact,  then,  we 
as  a  Convention  ought  not  to  say  that  the 
62 


Legislature  shall  not,  in  their  wisdom,  estab- 
Ush  other  branches  or  other  Universities  of 
learning.  Now  is  not  this  view  of  the  sub- 
ject right?  and  is  not  the  proposition  a  cor- 
rect one,  which  we  make  ?  Under  the  Organic 
Act  the  United  States  gives  to  the  Territory 
of  Minnesota  two  townships  of  land  for  the 
purpose  of  a  University  of  Minnesota.  There 
is  one  grant. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  The  gentleman  wiU  aUow 
me  to  correct  him.  Congress  did  not,  in  the 
Organic  Act,  give  that.  The  Territory  of 
Minnesota  memorialized  for  a  grant  of  land. 

Mr.  BILLINGS.  It  is  the  same  thing; 
Congress  gave  the  Territory  two  townships 
of  land.  These  lands  have  been  selected, 
and  they  are  now  the  property  of  the  Univer- 
sity of  Minnesota,  while  we  are  a  Territory. 
There,  now,  is  the  University  fund. 

Under  the  Enabling  Act,  which  has  been 
referred  to  so  often.  Congress  proposes  to 
make  a  further  donation  to  the  State  of  Min- 
nesota— not  to  the  Territory — to  be  selected 
by  the  Governor  of  the  State — ^not  of  the 
Territory — a  thing'which  is  to  be  done  in  the 
future ;  thus  making  two  separate  donations 
for  two  separate  purposes — one  under  the  act 
of  Congress,  the  land  of  which  is  located  and 
is  the  property  of  the  University  of  the  Ter- 
ritory; and  the  other,  of  seventy-two  sec- 
tions, is  for  a  State  University.  Now  -the 
language  of  the  report  of  this  committee  is 
intended  to  embrace  both  subjects.  Not  only 
do  they  embrace  that  which  belongs  to  the 
University  of  Minnesota  imder  a  special  law 
of  Congress,  dedicated  to  that  purpose,  and 
which  has  been  set  apart,  and  is  now  their 
property,  but  they  seem  to  go  further  and 
embrace  the  other  seventy-two  sections,  and 
appropriate  the  same  to  the  use  of  the  same 
University. 

Mr.  NORTH.  The  gentleman  is  entirely 
mistaken,  for  they  mean  the  same  thing  pre- 
cisely, and  apply  to  the  same  land.  The  En- 
abling Act,  if  I  understand  it,  provides  for 
two  school  sections  in  each  township,  and  the 
University  lands  too.  This  provides  for  the 
conveyance  of  the  land  to  the  State. 

Mr.  BILLINGS.  The  gentleman  says  that 
Congress  means  something  which  they  cer- 
tainly do  not  say.  If  the  gentleman,  by  any 
coiu"se  of  reasoning,  can  convince  the  Con- 
vention that  the  two  townships  of  land  which 


490 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Fbiday,  August  14. 


have  been  located  and  are  the  property  of 
the  University — a  thing  which  is  past — are 
the  same  in  the  eye  of  Congress  as  something 
which  is  to  be  in  the  future,  and  given  to  the 
State  as  a  State,  to  be  located  by  the  Gover- 
nor, as  the  officer  of  the  State 

Mr.  NORTH.  The  bill  which  granted  the 
seventy-two  sections,  simply  required  the 
Secretary  of  the  Interior  to  reserve  that 
amount  from  sale.  It  did  not  give  the  title  to 
the  Territory  or  to  the  University,  but  simply 
reserved  them  from  sale  for  that  purpose,  and 
there  is  no  power  here  to  hold  it  until  we  be- 
come a  State. 

Mr.  BILLINGS.  I  have  seen  the  bUl.  I 
do  not  profess  to  have  a  great  deal  of  acute- 
ness,  but  it  occurs  to  me  that  nothing  is 
plainer  than  that  the  two  grants  are  not  the 
same,  because  they  are  made  by  diflFerent  acts 
and  in  diflFerent  bodies  of  lands — the  one  is 
done  and  past,  the  other  is  to  be  done  in  the 
future. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  The  argument  of  the 
gentleman  from  Fillmore  wUl  require  a  revis- 
ion of  the  argument  of  the  gentleman  from 
Steele  county,  (Mr.  Coggswell,)  and  he  will 
have  to  double  his  figures.  The  same  argu- 
ment must  necessarily  apply  to  the  first  sub- 
division of  section  five  of  the  Enabling  Act, 
which  provides  for  granting  to  the  State  for 
the  use  of  schools  sections  sixteen  and  thirty- 
six  of  every  township.  Now  under  the  act 
organizing  this  Territory,  these  same  sections 
sixteen  and  thirty-six  have  been  set  apart 
and  reserved  for  the  use  of  schools  in  the 
Territory.  And  now  here  comes  Congress 
again,  according  to  the  gentleman's  argument, 
and  sets  apart  those  two  same  sections ;  and 
in  case  they  have  been  granted  and  disposed 
of,  then  other  two  sections  as  nearly  contig- 
uous thereto,  as  may  be,  shall  be  sot  apart. 
Consequently,  we  get  double  grants  of  com- 
mon school  lands.  Now  the  truth  is,  it  is 
merely  carrying  out  the  intended  grants 
which  have  been  promised  heretofore. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.    When  was  the  first 
bill  passed  by  Congress  ? 
Mr.  SECOMBE.    In  1851. 
The  question  was  then  taken  on  Mr.  Wil- 
son's amendment,  and^it  was  adopted. 

Mr.  PECKHAM  moved  to  amend  the  same 
section  by  adding  thereto  the  following : 


"  Provided,  No  religious  sect  shall  ever  have  ex- 
clusive control  of  said  University." 

Mr.  WILSON.  I  would  inquire  if  the 
same  provision  was  not  incorporated  in  the 
article  of  incorporation  ?  I  do  not  want  to 
have  them  have  exclusive  control,  or  any 
control. 

Mr.  PECKHAM.,  I  suppose  that  under 
the  act  of  incorporation,  any  rule  of  law  in 
that  act  of  incorporation  can  be  amended  or 
altered  by  the  Legislature  at  any  time.  It. 
strikes  me  that  such  a  provision  should  be  a 
fixed  law,  which  the  Legislature  cannot  tam- 
per with,  or  alter  or  amend. 

The  amendment  was  agreed  to. 

"Shc.  6.  The  proceeds  of  all  salt  springs  and 
lands  adjoining  or  contiguous  thereto,  that  have 
been  or  hereafter  may  be  granted  to  the  State  for 
its  use,  shall  be  appropriated  to  the  use  of  the 
State,  to  be  used  or  disposed  of  on  such  terms,  con- 
ditions and  regulations  as  the  Legislature  of  the 
State  shall  direct,  and  not  otherwise. 

Mr.  FOSTER  moved  to  amend  by  inserting 
after  the  words  "appropriated  to  the  use," 
the  words  "  of  the  common  schools." 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  hope  that  amendment 
will  not  prevail.  We  have  one  grant  certain, 
if  not  two,  for  common  schools,  and  there 
are  other  objects  in  the  State  which,  it  seems 
to  me,  should  be  provided  for ;  and  I  suggest, 
if  it  be  specifically  appropriated  to  any  use, 
it  should  for  an  insane  hospital,  rather  than 
to  common  schools,  which  have  already  such 
a  liberal  fund.  It  was  left  by  the  committee 
in  the  manner  in  which  it  was  found  in  the 
Enabling  Act.  It  was  thought  best  by  tlicm 
to  let  the  Legislature  have  the  disposal  of  it 
in  such  a  manner  as  they  thought  best. 

Mr.  FOSTER.  I  hope  the  amendment  will 
be  adopted.  I  do  not  believe  that  our  lunatics 
are  going  to  be  so  large  a  number  as  to  need 
the  benefit  of  such  a  fund  as  this  wiU  be,  and 
I  believe  furthermore  that  if  the  people  be 
educated  they  will  show  less  signs  of  insanity 
than  some  of  them  do  now.  (Laughter.)  1 
think  we  cannot  augment  the  common  school 
fund  too  much  nor  guard  it  with  too  much 
care.  If  we  are  to  became  a  great  State  we 
ought  to  take  care  that  our  intellectual  advan- 
tage,  are  commensurate  with  the  wants  of  a 
large  population. 

I  hope  this  amendment  will  bo  adopted. 
It  is  not  without  a  precedent  in  other  States. 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Fbidat,  August  14. 


491 


My  impression  is  that  Iowa  and  Michigan 
have  adopted  a  similar  provision. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  think  it  would  be  bet- 
ter to  leave  this  matter  where  we  find  it  in 
the  Enabling  Act,  to  the- Legislature.  It  is 
very  important  that  the  State  should  establish 
some  institution  for  the  relief  of  the  insane^ 
the  blind,  &c.  Now,  as  has  been  said,  we 
have  a  very  liberal  provision  for  the  support 
of  common  schools.  When  that  matter  was 
under  discussion  it  was  estimated  by  some 
gentlemen,  whom  I  suppose  competent  to 
make  a  correct  estimate,  that  the  common 
school  fund  would  be  amply  sufficient  to  sup- 
port our  common  schools  during  the  greater 
part  of  theyear,'in  every  district  of  the  State. 
But  we  have  no  special  provisions  for  the  es- 
tablishment of  any  charitable  institutions^ 
and  if  the  Legislature  should  deem  it  best  to 
take  this  grant  for  that  purpose,  I  think  they 
should  have  the  privilege  of  doing  so.  If  it 
shall  be  found  that  our  school  fund  is  going 
to  be  short,  and  the  Legislature  think  it  best 
for  the  interest  of  the  whole  people,  to  add 
this  to  the  school  fund,  they  will  have  the 
liberty  to  do  so  without  any  act  upon  our 
part. 

Mr.  KING.  I  am  wholly  at  a  loss  to  know 
what  course  members  are  going  to  pursue. 
We  found  a  little  while  ago. that  a  little  more 
than  half  of  the  members  of  this  Convention 
present  were  opposed  to  altering  a  single  letter 
of  the  Enabling  Act,  stating  as  a  reason  for  it 
that  great  inconvenience  would  arise  firom 
such  a  course,  and  now,  some  of  those  very 
members  are  in  favor  of  altering  a  specific 
provision  of  the  Enabling  Act.  That  act  has 
left  this  matter  to  the  Legislature,  and  now 
gentlemen  say  that  this  Convention  shall  ap- 
propriate it,  when  Congress  has  said  that  the 
Legislature  shall  make  the  appropriation. 
Now  if  we  can  do  one  thing  contrary  to  the 
Enabling  Act,  we  can  do  two  things,  and  we 
can  change  our  boundaries  just  as  well  as  we 
can  dispose  of  these  lands.  If  my  friends 
can  make  my  mind  satisfied  upon  that  subject, 
I  will  vote  with  them. 

Mr.  FOSTER.  The  matter  of  the  bounda- 
ries of  our  future  State  is  one  thing,  but  the 
disposal  of  the  lands  granted  to  that  State 
under  the  Enabling-Act  is  quite  another  ques- 
tion. It  is  one  which  we  are  bound  to  take 
^cognizance  of;  while  the  former  is  a  question, 


which,  it  is  doubtful  whether  we  have  any 
right  to  take  cognisance  of. 

The  amendment  was  not 'agreed  to. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  I  had  this  morning 
prepared  an  amendment  to  section' two,  but  I 
did  not  ofler  it  as  I  desired  more  time  to  con- 
sider the  subject.  I  would  call  the  attention 
of  the  Convention  to  that  section  and  then  I 
will  offer  an  amendment  merely  with  a  view 
of  getting  it  into  better  shape  than  it  now  is. 
The  section  relates  to  escheats  and  I  think  the 
less  escheats  to  the  State  we  have'the  better. 
If  I  understand  that  matter,  this  section  does 
not  cover  all  the  ground  that  I  desire  it  should 
cover.  It  provides  that  "all  lands  the  title 
"to  which  shall  fail  from  a  defect  of  heirs 
"  shall  revert  or  escheat  to  the  State."  Now 
I  may  be  wrong,  but  I  think  that  if  a  man 
should  die  leaving  no  heirs,  this  clause  would 
require  that  his  property  should  revert  to  the 
State,  even  though  he  had  disposed  of  his 
property  by  will,  for  there  is  equally  a  defect 
of  heirs.  Suppose  a  man  should  make  by 
will  a  donation  of  his  property,  he  being  heir- 
less, to  some  eleemosynary  institution,  would 
not  this  clause  cut  it  off? 

I  have  not  examined  the  constitutional  pre- 
visions of  other  States  in  this  respect.  Some 
of  the  States  I  know,  have  no  constitutional 
provisions  in  regard  to  this  matter.  The 
word  "heirs"  as  it  stands  here  has  a  fixed 
and  definite  meaning.  They  are  that  class  of 
persons  who  receive  property  by  descent  from 
the  original  proprietors.  Devisees  may  be  no 
relation  at  all.  This  word  "heirs"  is  limited 
in  its  meaning.  It  does  not  include  all  the 
kindred.  I  would  have  it  that  when  a  man 
dies  the  last  of  his  race,  and  has  no  known 
kindred  in  the  world,  and  he  makes  no  will, 
that  the  State  should  be  considered  as  his 
heir.  But  as  long  as  his  blood  runs  in  human 
veins,  so  long  should  those  having  that  blood 
be  allowed  to  possess  the  property,  and  the 
Legislature  should  provide  for  them.  I  do 
not  know  exactly  how  to  get  at  the  idea  which 
I  have  in  view,  but  I  have  embodied  it  in  this 
language. 

"  If  any  person,  who  at  the  time  of  his  or  her 
death,  was  seized  or  possessed  of  aty  real  or  per- 
sonal property  within  this  State,  die  intestate, 
without  heirs  or  any  known  kindred,  such  estate 
or  property  shall  escheat  to  the  State,  subject  to 
all  legal  demands  on  the  same." 

I  do  not  know  whether  we  have  made  any 


492 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Pbidat,  August  14. 


provision  in  the  Constitution  in  reference  to 
personal  property.  This  clause  will  cover 
that,  and  it  is  well  known  that  some  of  the 
wealthiest  men  in  the  country  have  no  other 
property  than  personal  property.  Some  of 
the  largest  estates  in  the  country  are  in  stocks 
and  personality.  The  section  as  it  stands  in 
the  report  of  the  committee,  does  not  apply 
to  that  kind  of  property  ;  and  I  think  it  will 
be  admitted,  on  all  hands,  that  that  should 
be  included.  I"  oflfer  the  provision  which  I 
have  read  as  a  substitute  for  the  last  clause 
of  the  section. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  would  ask  the  gentle- 
man if,  in  the  case  he  cites — that  of  an  indi- 
vidual without  heirs,  disposing  of  his  property 
by  will— the  title  would  fail  ?  Would  not  the 
title  rest  in  the  devisee  ? 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.     Most  assuredly. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  Then  it  would  not  come 
within  the  meaning  of  the  words  "  all  lands 
the  title  to  which  shall  fail." 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  But  then  the  words 
"  from  a  defect  of  heirs"  follows,  to  qualify- 
that.  It  is  true  the  title  would  not  fail ;  but 
why  not  say  "  from  defect  of  devisees"  as 
well  as  kindred  ?  Would  this  clause  now  in- 
clude kindred  who  are  not  heirs — distant  re- 
lations ? 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  would  enquire  if  there 
are  any  kindred  who  are  not  heirs  ?  And  if 
heirs  do  not  go  both  in  direct  and  collateral 
lines? 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  At  the  common  law 
that  is  the  rule,  but  I  think  that  in  most  of  the 
States,  a  limit  is  put  to  heirship,  and  they  de- 
fine by  legislative  enactment  what  heirship  is  ; 
and  that  property  descends  to  a  certain  ex- 
tent and  no  further — changing  the  rule  of  the 
common  law.  And  the  reason  given  for  it  is, 
that  difficulties  might  arise  if  it  were  not  re- 
stricted within  reasonable  limits.  The  old 
system,  much  abused  in  England,  has  been 
done  away  with  in  this  country,  and  we  have 
only  statutory  escheats.  I  would,  before  the 
State  should  step  in  and  take  the  property  of 
any  individual  dying  in  the  State,  have  it  as- 
certained, as  nearly  as  possible,  whether  such 
person  has  any  distant  kindred  ;  and  I  would 
go  further,  and  have  the  Legislature  pass  a 
law  that  children  \)y  adoption,  there  being  no 
children  of  the  blood  of  the  parents  by  adop- 
tion, should  como  in  as  heirs.    To  give  the 


property  to  the  State,  to  say  the  least  of  it, 
is  not  desirable. 

Mr.  FOSTER.  The  gentleman  says  that  in 
this  country  statutory  provisions  are  neces- 
sary in  order  that  'escheats  should  revert  to 
the  State. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  That  is  a  general  prin- 
ciple. 

Mr.  FOSTER.  Would  not  escheats,  upon 
the  principles  of  the  common  law,  revert  to 
the  State,  if  there  are  no  heirs  ?  If  so  the 
whole  thing  would  be  under  the  control  of  the 
Legislature.  I  have  been  looking  at  this  sec- 
tion, and  it  seems  to  me  that  if  there  is  any- 
thmg  in  it,  which  should  be  in  the  Constitu- 
tion, it  should  be  in  the  BiU  of  Rights.  If  we 
are  going  to  alter  the  common  law,  it  would 
be  the  most  correct  course  to  have  it  in  that 
place.  But  it  strikes  me  that  the  section  is 
entirely  unnecessary.  Is  not  the  right  an 
inherent  property  of  sovereignty,  at  any  rate ; 
and  would  it  not  exist  even  without  any  such 
provision  as  this  in  the  Constitution  ?  And 
at  the  common  law,  would  not  property  to 
which  there  were  no  heirs,  escheat  to  the 
State? 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  If  there  is  to  be  any 
qualification,  we  should  make  it  broad  enough. 
But  I  would  not  object  to  striking  out  the 
whole  section.  The  first  section  gives  to  the 
people  the  ultimate  right  to  the  soil,  and,  as 
has  been  remarked,  the  Legislature  can  make 
such  laws  in  relation  to  escheats  as  it  thinks 
proper.  I  heard  a  case  stated  the  other  day, 
where  an  adopted  child  had  lived  with  its 
adopted  parent  all  his  life,  and  the  parent  had 
always  said  the  child  should  have  his  property. 
The  parent  was  accidentally  killed,  and  left 
no  will.  The  State  is  now  trying  to  get  that 
property  and  will  get  it.  Now  the  Legisla- 
ture should  have  jurisdiction  over  cases  of 
that  kind.  The  State  does  not  need  the  prop- 
erty, and  to  take  it  would  be  an  absolute 
wrong. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  Would  not  the  State  hJive 
the  right  to  do  justice  and  equity,  and  to 
give  the  property  back  to  the  person  to  whom 
it  ought  to  go,  imder  the  power  of  the  right 
of  sovereignty  ? 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  I  do  not  think  it 
would,  and  the  question  is  whether  the  courts 
would  have  the  right  to  grant  relief. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.    I  did  not  ask  that,  but 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Fridat,  Acgtst  14. 


493 


whether  the  State  would  not  have  the  right  to 
give  it  to  whom  it  equitably  belonged,  though 
legally  it  belonged  to  the  State? 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  I  think  it  would,  un- 
der the  clause  we  have  inserted. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  As  it  now  stands  ? 
Mr.  GALBRAITH.  I  would  rather  have 
it  modified  so  as  to  refer  to  property  the  title 
to  which  shall  fail  from  any  cause  rather  than 
simply  from  a  defect  of  heirs.  It  certainly 
does  not  provide  for  devisees  and  distant  re- 
lations. 

Mr.  MORGAN.  I  agree  with  the  gentle- 
man from  Dakota  (Mr.  Foster).  I  do  not  see 
the  use  of  this  section  at  all.  It  makes  no 
new  rule  and  if  it  is  stricken  out  the  Legis- 
lature will  have  the  power  to  change  the  rule 
of  the  conunon  law  if  they  think  proper.  It 
is  unnecessary  and  improper  to  put  into  the 
Constitution  a  maxim  of  the  common  law,  or 
a  maxim  of  any  other  character. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  In  regard  to  the  first  part 
of  the  section,  there  seems  to  be  a  propriety 
in  having  it  remain  here,  even  if  the  last 
clause  be  stricken  out.  "We  have  declared  in 
the  Constitution,  in  another  place,  that  the 
Legislatm-e  shall  never  interfere  with  the  pri- 
mary disposal  of  the  soil,  and  it  would  do  no 
harm  to  declare,  at  the  same  time  that  they 
have  the  ultimate  property. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  I  prefer  that  the  first 
clause  of  the  section  should  remain  as  a  dec- 
laration of  the  principle  that  the  people  have 
the  ultimate  right  of  sovereignty  when  the 
title  fail  entirely. 

The  amendment  of  Mr.  Galbkaith  was 
then  agreed  to. 

And  then,  on  motion  of  Mr.  CLEGHORN, 
the  committee  rose  and  reported  to  the  Con- 
vention the  report  and  amendments,  with  a 
recommendation  that  the  amendments  should 
be  conctirred  in. 

The  question  first  recurring  upon  the 
amendment  offered,  in  committee,  by  Mr. 
Galbrajth  to  the  second  section — 

Mr.  SECOMBE  called  for  a  division  of  the 
question,  so  as  to  take  a  vote  first  upon  the 
striking  out,  and  then  upon  inserting. 

The  question  was  accordingly  taken  upon 
striking  out  all  after  .the  word  "  State,"  and 
it  was  agreed  to. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  would  say,  before  the 
vote  is  taken  upon  inserting  the  juuendment 


proposed  by  the  gentleman  from  Scott  county, 
that  if  the  Convention  reject  that  amendment, 
the  section  will  stand  simply  as  the  first  clause 
reads: 

"The  people  of  the  State,  in  their  right  of  sove- 
reigntr,  are  declared  to  possess  the  ultimate  pro- 
perty in  and  to  all  lands  within  the  jnrLsdiction  of 
the  State." 

Now  I  would  prefer  to  have  it  so  remxiin, 
and  I  believe  the  gentleman  from  Scott  county 
himself  said  he  would  not  object  to  it. 

The  question  was  taken  upon  inserting  the 
amendment  proposed  by  Mr.  GAXBaAiTH,  smd 
it  was  not  agreed  to. 

The  question  next  recurred  upon  the  re- 
conmaendation  of  the  committee  to  strike  out 
all  after  the  words,  "  appropriated  to  the  use 
"  and  support  of"  in  section  four,  and  insert, 
"  a  University  and  for  no  other  purpose,  in 
"  such  manner  as  the  Legislature  of  the  State 
"  shall  prescribe." 

Mr.  SECOMBE  moved  a  cafl  of  tiie  Con- 
vention. 

A  call  was  ordered,  and  the  roU  being 
called  the  following  members  failed  to  answer 
to  their  names : 

Messrs.  Asdebson,  Atkb^  Cedebstam,  Da- 
vis, and  Thoipsox. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  I  understand  that  Mr. 
Cedebstam  is  absent  by  permission  of  the 
committee  on  Leave  of  Absence. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  Messrs.  Cedebstam, 
Ateb,  and  Thompsox,  are  absent  from  the 
city. 

Mr.  NORTH  moved  to  dispense  with  all 
further  proceedings  under  the  call. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to. 

Mr.  WILSON.  There  are  some  members 
in  the  city,  who  are  not  present,  and  I  move 
to  reconsider  that  last  vote. 

The  PRESIDENT.  The  Chair  would  sug- 
gest that  the  gentleman  can  more  easily  ac- 
complish his  object  by  moving  a  call  of  the 
Convention.' 

Mr.  WILSON.     I  make  that  motion. 

A  call  was  ordered,  and  the  roll  being 
called  the  following  members  fiailed  to  answer 
to  their  names : 

Messrs.  Ardbbsos,  Ateb,  Cedebstah,  and 
Thompson. 

Mr.  FOSTER  moved  that  all  further  pro- 
ceedings imder  the  call  be  dispensed  with. 

The  motion  was  ^reed  to. 


4M 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Fbiday,  August  14. 


Mr.  FOSTER.  Is  the  question  open  for 
discussion  yet? 

The  PRESIDENT.    It  is. 

Mr.  FOSTER.  The  Sergeant-at-Arms  has 
gone  after  absent  members,  not  knowing  that 
further  proceedings  have  been  suspended, 
and  I  want  to  give  him  time  to  "bring  them  in. 

This  is  a  question  which  has  been  troubling 
our  Legislatures  every  session.  Hardly  a 
session  has  passed  since  the  University  was 
established,  but  what  some  question  in  regard 
to  it  has  come  up  in  the  Legislature.  The 
matter  is  doubtless  an  important  one,  and  I 
think  myself  that  it  is  very  important  that 
the  fund  should  remain  intact,  and  be  one 
fund  for  one  institution.  That  can  hardly  be 
disputed.  If  we  distribute  it  broadcast  over 
the  land,  it  wUl  never  do  good  to  anybody ; 
and  whether  it  is  to  do  good  any  way,  is 
to  be  determined  in  the  future.  I  have  not 
much  faith  in  Universities  any  where.  While 
I  think  this  institution  is  located  in  a  pretty 
central  position,  and  am  not  disposed,  while 
it  is  conducted  properly  and  fairly,  to  remove 
it  from  its  present  position,  I  may  at  the  same 
time  be  permitted  to  scold  a  Httle  at  the  man- 
ner in  which  the  fund  has  been  managed 
heretofore.  I  agree  with  the  gentleman  from 
Winona  (Mr.  Wilson,)  that  an  unnecessarily 
large  building  has  been  erected,  and  more 
money  expended  than  is  justifiable,  in  putting 
up  a  building,  costing  forty  or  fifty  thousand 
dollars,  which  will  not  be  demanded  for  years 
to  come ;  and  when  it  is  demanded,  will  have 
become  dilapidated  in  part,  and  not  in  as 
good  order  as  it  should  be.  Now  I  take  it  that 
the  idea  of  cutting  up  the  fund,  and  scatter- 
•ing  it  all  over  the  State  is  not  to  be  thought  of. 
And  as  to  a  removal,  although  I  disapprove 
of  the  extravagant  expenditure  of  money 
heretofore  made,  I  am  opposed  to  it.  It  re- 
minds me  of  a  case  which  occurred  during 
General  Jackson's  administration,  in  which  a 
receiver  of  public  money  in  Mississippi  was  a 
large  defaulter,  and  application  was  made  to 
the  President  to  remove  him.  The  General 
sought  information  and  advice  from  the  pro- 
per quarter,  and  he  was  advised  to  allow  him 
to  remain,  on  the  ground  that  he  was  a  pretty 
fair  man — as  fair  as  any  that  could  be  got ; 
and  if  he  was  turned  out  and  another  put  in 
his  place,  the  other  would  have  to  be  gorged 
too ;  and  the  result  wovild  be  that  the  Treas- 


ury would  be  robbed  twice.  He  was  allowed 
to  remain,  and  he  became  a  very  good  ofBcer, 
and  made  no  further  default. 

So,  in  this  case,  if  you  remove  the  Univer- 
sity to  any  other  point,  they  will  go  to  work 
and  put  up  another  large  building  to  orna- 
ment their  town,  and  expend  as  much,  if  not 
more  money.  Now  we  have  a  building  al- 
ready, and  it  would  be  decidedly  bad  policy  to 
change  the  location.  I  think  we  ought  to 
keep  it  where  it  is.  Whatever  mischief  has 
been  done  is  passed  and  irretrievable,  and  the 
only  way  now  for  us  is,  to  go  along  and  look 
out  well  for  the  future. 

Now  I  am  going  for  this  section  as  origin- 
ally reported  by  the  committee,  and  against 
the  amendment  for  the  reason  that  the  orig- 
inal clause  refers  to  the  act  of  the  Legis- 
lature, and  that  act  gives  the  Legislature  com- 
plete control  over  any  abuse  of  the  fund,  or 
the  institution.  It  also  provides  that  no  re- 
ligious tenets  shall  be  required  of  either  schol- 
lar  or  professor.  Under  that  act,  I  hope  it 
will  be  managed  in  the  future  in  a  manner 
acceptable  to  the  whole  State,  and  that  no 
more  money  will  be  expended  for  the  purpose 
of  ornamenting  the  place. 

Mr.  McCLURE.  I  had  intended  unre- 
servedly to  vote  for  this  amendment,  until  I 
heard  the  knock-down  argument  of  the  gen- 
tleman from  Dakota,  and  I  am  going  to  say  a 
few  words  now  to  see  if  I  can  get  my  mind 
settled  to  the  same  point  again.  I  under- 
stand him  to  assert  that  the  funds  have  not 
been  used  as  they  ought  to  have  been,  and 
he  is  decidedly  opposed  to  a  removal  to  anoth- 
er place  from  the  fact  that  the  same  thing 
would  be  transacted  over  again  by  another 
set  of  men,  and  he  thinks  we  bad  better  let 
the  first  thieves  appropriate  all  to  their  own 
advantage.  Now  I  declare  to  this  Conven- 
tion that  that^is  an  argument  which  I  hardly 
know  how  to  get  over.  Supposing  that  no 
man  would  make  it  who  had  not  some  expe- 
rience in  these  things,  I  took  it  for  granted 
that  it  must  be  so.  But  still,  when  I  look  at 
our  action  in  accepting  the  Enabling  Act,  and 
at  its  terms,  it  seems  to  me  that  there  is  lan- 
guage in  this  section,  as  reported  by  the  com- 
mittee, which  I  cannot  understand.  We  have 
accepted  the  seventy-two  sections  of  land, 
and  we  have  agreed  that  the  Legislature  of 
Minnesota  shall  dispose  of  that  land,  for  the 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Fbidat,  August  14. 


495 


purposes  contemplated  by  the  act  granting 
them.  Now  the  gentlemen  who  are  opposed 
to  this  amendment  do  not  ask  that  the  Legis- 
latiu"e  shall  be  deprived  of  the  privilege  of 
legislating  upon  that  subject,  because  they 
say  that  in  the  Territorial  Act  there  is  an  ex- 
press provision  made,  which  allows  them  to 
do  so.  But  gentlemen  will  remember  that 
they  ask  us  to  do,  what  ?  not  to  legislate — 
for  they  say  we  have  no  power  to  do  that — 
but  they  only  ask  us  to  say  in  the  Constitu- 
tion that  the  acts  of  the  Territorial  Legisla- 
ture shall  be  confirmed  and  made  binding 
upon  the  State.  Now  that  is  the  whole  sum 
and  substance  of  the  thing.  We  cannot  le- 
gislate, but  we  can  confirm  an  act  of  the  Ter- 
ritorial Legislat\u-e.  They  ask  us  to  make  an 
act  of  the  Territorial  Legislature  apply  and 
have  the  same  effect  and  force  as  an  act  of  the 
State  Legislature  ?  That  is  exactly  as  I  un- 
derstand it. 

Now  so  far  as  appropriating  this  fund  to 
the  erection  of  buildings  is  concerned,  I  have 
nothing  to  charge  upon  the  people  of  St.  An- 
thony. I  suppose  they  are  honest  men  up 
there,  and,  like  a  good  many  other  people, 
they  want  to  make  the  most  of  it ;  and  I  do 
DOt  blame  them  for  desiring  that  the  institu- 
tion shall  be  permanently  located  there. 
But  I  say  they  take  such  views  here  as  they 
ought  not  to  take  when  they  ask  us  to  give 
the  same  force  and  effect  to  an  act  of  the  Ter- 
ritorial Legislature,  which  an  act  of  the  State 
Legislature  would  have. 

Now  I  hope  it  will  be  left  with  the  State 
Legislature,  and  if  gentlemen  up  at  St.  An- 
thony had  suflBcient  influence  previous  to  the 
location  of  the  institution  there,  to  do  what 
they  have  done,  I  have  no  doubt  they  wiU 
have  as  much  influence  with  future  Legisla- 
tures. I  am  willing  to  leave  the  St.  Anthony 
men  to  contend  with  such  influences  as  may 
be  brought  to  bear  from  other  portions  of  the 
State,  and  I  have  no  doubt  they  will  be  able 
to  carry  their  points  as  they  have  heretofore. 
Therefore,  I  am  decidedly  in  favor  of  the 
amendment  proposed  by  the  gentleman  from 
"NVinona,  and  reported  to  us  from  the  CMn- 
mittee  of  the  Whole. 

Mr.  BALCOMBE.  I  happen,  at  the  pre- 
sent time,  to  be  one  of  the  Regents  of  the 
University,  and  it  has  been  intimated  here 
that  tk^  Regents  had  taken  upon  themselves 


the  responsibility  of  expending  rather  too 
much  money  at  St.  Anthony.  I  feel  called 
upon  to  make  a  short  reply  to  that  assertion, 
from  the  fact  that  the  Regents  of  the  Univer- 
sity have  done  everything  which  they  have 
done  thus  far,  without  encroaching  in  the 
least  upon  the  original  grant  of  Congress. 
They  have  not  mortgaged  the  lands  granted 
by  Congress,  and  have  given  no  liens  upon 
them  whatever.  What  has  been  done  by  the 
Regents,  has  been  done  by  their  own  personal 
efforts  in  the  way  of  obtaining  private  sub- 
scriptions, and  in  other  ways  managing  to  get 
into  their  hands  some  means  and  some  pro- 
perty outside  of  the  grant  of  Congress. 
They  have  obtained  the  possession  of  twenty- 
two  acres  of  land  in  St.  Anthony,  which  is 
worth  forty  or  fifty  thousand  dollars 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  Twenty-seven  acres, 
worth  not  less  than  fifty  thousand  dollars. 

Mr.  BALCOMBE.  Now  the  Regents  have 
mortgaged  that  twenty-seven  acres  of  land 
for  some  fifteen  thousand  dollars,  and  they 
have  commenced  the  erection  of  a  building, 
and  they  must  raise  upon  that  building  and 
the  land  upon  which  it  stands,  a  sufficient 
amount  of  money  to  complete  what  they  have 
commenced,  without  asking  any  aid  from  the 
fund  which  comes  from  Congress.  In  view 
of  that  state  of  facts,  I  ask  what  have  the 
Regents  done  more  than  they  had  a  right  to 
do,  more  than  would  be  well  for  them  to  do, 
provided  they  could  do  it  ? 

Again,  this  has  not  been  done  by  St.  An- 
thony, nor  by  any  other  town.  It  has  been 
brought  about  and  accomplished  by  men  who 
look  higher  than  town  sites,  I  hope,  or  to  the 
particular  pecuniary  interest  of  any  town 
site.  It  has  been  done  by  such  men  as 
Henry  M.  Rice,  Ex-Governor  Ramsey,  Nel- 
son, Steele,  Meeker,  Atwater,  and  many 
others  I  might  mention.  It  has  been  done 
by  the  Board  as  a  unit,  and  |by  men  who 
were  looking  to  the  proper  education  of  the 
youth  of  Minnesota,  and  who  desired  an  in- 
stitution which  should  be  a  credit  to  the 
State.  Now  when  the  assertion  is  made  by 
gentlemen,  that  the  Regents  have  transcended 
their  powers,  and  that  they  have  done  wrong, 
I  must  beg  to  differ  with  them  entirely. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  desire  to  say  one  word 
in  addition  to  what  the  gentleman  fix)m  Wi- 
nona has  said,  in  relation  to  the  part  which 


496 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Satcrdat,  August  16. 


St.  Anthony  has  had  in  the  disposal  of  the 
fund  used  at  St.  Anthony ;  and  I  will  state 
that  until  this  last-  session  of  the  Legislature, 
there  has  never  been  a  time  when  the  wishes 
of  St.  Anthony  have  been  respected  in  the 
election  of  the  Regents  of  that  University. 
AU  powerful,  as  St.  Anthony  has  been  repre- 
sented to  be,  upon  this  floor,  yet  such  has 
been  the  fact.  They  have  had  to  contend 
against  odds,  and  they  have  only  been  per- 
mitted to  have  what  the  people  of  other  parts 
of  the  Territory  have  been  pleased  to  give  to 
them ;  and  when  it  has  been  determined  that 
there  might  be  a  Regent  elected  from  St.  An- 
thony, that  Regent  has  not  been  the  choice  of 
St.  Anthony  itself,  but  such  as  the  otlier 
parts  of  the  Territory  saw  fit  to  give  than. 
There  has  always  been  a  struggle  upon  that 
point;  and  the  most  bitter  struggle  we  have 
ever  had,  was  that  which  took  place  last 
winter. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  move  the  previous 
question. 

The  previous  question  was  seconded,  and 
the  main  question  ordered  to  be  put. 

Mr.  "WILSON  called  for  the  yeas  and  nays 
upon  the  amendment. 

The  yeas  and  nays  were  ordered,  and  the 
question  being  taken  it  was  decided  in  the 
afiBrmative — yeas  31,  nays  25,  as  follows : 

Teas. — Messrs.  Anderson,  Baldwin,  Billings, 
Bolles,  Butler,  Cleghorn,  Colburn,  Coggswell, 
Coe,  Davis,  Duley,  Gerrish,  Harding,  Hudson, 
Hanson,  HoUey,  King,  Kemp,  Lyle,  Mantor, 
McCano,  McKune,  McClure,  Mills,  Perkins,  Peck- 
ham,  Bobbins,  Stannard,  Vaughn,  Watson,  and 
Wilson.— 31. 

Nays. — Messrs.  Aldricb,  Bates,  Bartholomew, 
Coombs,  Dickerson,  Eschlie,  Foster,  Folsom, 
Galbraith,  Hall,  Hayden,  Lowe,  Messer,  Morgan, 
Murphy,  North,  Phelps,  Putnam,  Russell,  Se- 
combe,  Smith,  Walker,  Winell,  Sheldon,  and  Mr. 
President. — 25. 

So  the  amendment  was  agreed  to. 

And  then,  on  motion  of  Mr.  STANNARD, 
the  Convention  adjourned. 


THIRTIETH  DAY. 

Satubdat,  August  15,  1858. 
The  Convention  met  at  nine  o'clock,  a.  v. 
Prayer  by  the  Chaplain,  Rev.  E.  D.  Neill. 
The  journal  of  yesterday  was  read  and 
approred. 


4 


COMPEOMISE    PEOCEEDINGS. 

The  President  laid  before  the  Convention 
the  following  communication  from  the  Secre- 
tary, and  the  same  was  ordered  to  be  entered 
on  the  journal : 

Constitutional  Convbntion,  j 
St.  Paul,  August  13,  1857.    ) 
Hon.  St.  A.  D.  Balcomce,  President  of  the  Consti- 
tutional Convention : 

Sir  : — In  obedience  to  instructions  contained  in 
a  resolution  passed  by  this  body  on  the  eleventh 
instant,  I  gave  into  the  hands  of  the  Hon.  H.  H. 
Siblkt  a  communication  in  writing,  of  which  the 
enclosed  are  true  copies. 
Respectfully, 

L.  A.  BABCOCK,  Secretary. 

Constitutional  Convention, 
Hall,  House  op  Representatives, 
St.  Paul,  August  11,  1857. 
Hon.  H.  H.  Sibley,  Presiding  Officer  of  that  por- 
tion of  the  Delegates  to  the  Constitutional  Con- 
vention assembled  in  the  Council  Chamber  of  the 
Capitol  : 

Sir  : — The  Constitutional  Convention  assembled 
in  the  Hall  of  the  House  of  Representatives,  have 
this  day  passed  the  following  resolution,  viz : 

liesolved.  That  the  Secretary  of  this  Convention 
is  hereby  directed  to  communicate  to  the  pjesiding 
officer  of  that  portion  of  the  Delegates  to  the 
Constitutional  Convention  assembled  in  the  Council 
Chamber  of  the  Capitoi  an  attested  copy  of  tfie 
Preamble  and  Resolutions  in  reference  to  a  Com- 
mittee of  Conference,  adopted  on  the  tenth  instant, 
and  the  official  action  of  tnis  Convention  thereon. 

I  have,  therefore,  the  honor  to  communicate  the 
enclosed  attested  Preamble  and  Resolutions,  as 
the  same  passed  this  body  on  the  tenth  instant. 
Respectfully, 

L.  A.  BABCOCK, 
Secretary  of  the  Convention. 

PREAMBLE  AND   RESOLUTIONS. 

Whbeeas,  The  persons  who  were  elected  by  the 
people  of  this  Territory  to  represent  them  in  a 
Constitutional  Convention,  having  met  at  this 
Capitol  on  the  day  appointed  by  law  for  such  meet- 
ing, and  having  disagreed  upon  some  questions 
which  arose  in  the  course  of  iorming  a  temporary 
organization,  separated  and  formed  two  distinct 
Conventions,  in  numbers  nearly  equal,  and  are 
now  forming  two  separate  and  distinct  Constitu- 
tions, to  be  presented  to  the  people. 

And  Whereas,  Proceedings  so  extraordinary 
in  their  character  will  have  a  tendency  to  injure 
the  reputation  of  our  people — to  lessen  the  confi- 
dence of  other  States  in  our  integrity,  stability 
and  patriotism,  and  place  us  in  a  false  position 
before  the  world,  therefore, 

Besolved,  That  a  Committee  of  five  be  appointed 
by  the  President  of  this  Convention  to  center  with 
a  Committee  of  an  equal  number,  if  appointed,  of 
the  duly  elected  members  of  that  portion  of  them 
who  are  acting  separately  from  us;  and  that  it 
shall  be  the  duty  of  such  Committee  to  consider 
and  agree  upon,  if  practicable,  and  report  some 
plan  by  whicn  the  two  bodies  can  unite  upon  a 
eingle  Constitution  to  be  submitted  to  the  people. 
Constitutional  Convention,     ) 
Hall,  House  or  Befrssentativbs,  \- 
St.  Paul,  August  10,  1866.       ) 

I  hereby  certify  the  foregoing  to  be  a  true  copy 


MINNESOTA  CON^TINTION  DEBATES— Satcbday,  August  15. 


497 


of  a  Preamble  and  Resolutions  which  onanimously 
passed  this  body  on  the  tenth  instant. 

Attest :  L.  A.  BABCOCK,  Secretary. 

Mr.  MANX  OR,  from  the  committee  on 
Engrossment,  reported  back  as  correctly 
enrolled,  Reports  numbers  twenty  and  twenty- 
one,  being  the  Report  on  the  Militia,  and  the 
report  on  Taxation,  Finance,  and  Public  Debt. 

FKAL   ADJOURXMEST. 

Mr.*  NORTH.  I  move  to  suspend  the  rules 
so  far  as  to  enable  us  to  reconsider  the  vote 
by  which  the  Convention  resolved  to  adjovun 
this  day. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to,  two-thirds  vot- 
ing in  favor  thereof. 

Mr.  NORTH.  I  now  move  to  reconsider 
the  vote  by  which  the  resolution  to-day  was 
adopted. 

The  motion  to  reconsider  prevailed. 

The  question  then  recurring  on  the  passage 
of  the  resolution  as  follows  : 

"Jiesolved,  That  this  Convention  adjourn  without 
day  on  Saturday  the  fifteenth  instant." 

On  motion  of  Mr.  NORTH,  the  resolution 
was  laid  upon  the  table. 

BEPOBT   ON   Pr^LIC    PROPEBTT. 

Mr.  McKUNE.  K  it  is  in  order  now  to 
move  to  reconsider  the  vote  by  which,  last 
evening,  the  amendment  offered  by  Mr. 
WiLsox  to  the  fourth  section  of  the  report  on 
Public  Property,  was  adopted,  I  desire  to 
make  that  motion. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  I  move  that  there  be  a 
call  of  the  Convention. 

A  call  was  ordered,  and  the  roll  being 
called,  Messrs.  Ateb,  Cedebstam,  Fosteb, 
HoLLET,  Kemp,  Lyle,  Messeb  and  Thomp- 
TON,  failed  to  answer  to  their  names. 

The  PRESIDENT  announced  that  Messrs. 
Cedebstam,  Ateb  and  TnoiiPSON  were  ex- 
cused from  attendance. 

Mr.  McKUNE  moved  that  all  further  pro- 
ceedings under  the  call  be  dispensed  with. 

Mr.  STANNARD  demanded  the  yeas  and 
nays. 

The  yeas  and  nays  were  ordered,  and  the 
roll  being  called,  it  was  decided  in  the  afiSrm- 
ative,  yeas  thirty-one,  nays  eighteen,  as 
follows : 

Yeas — Messrs.  Aldrich,  Anderson,  Baldwin,  Bil- 
lings, Butler,  Cleghorn,  Colbnm,  Coggswell, 
Coe,  Davis,  Duley,  Dickerson,  Galbraith,  Gerrish, 
Harding,  Hudson,  Hanson,  Holley,  King,  Lowe, 
63 


Mantor,  McCann,  McKune,  McClure,  Mills,  North, 
Perkins,' Peckham,  Smith,  Watson,  and  Wilson. 

JS'ai/s — Messrs.  Bates,  Bartholomew,  Coombs, 
Eschlie,  Folsom,  Hayden,  Morgan,  Murphy, 
Phelps,  Putnam,  Robbins,  Russell,  Stannard,  Shel- 
don, Secombe,  Taughn,  Walker,  and  President. 

So  all  further  proceedings  under  the  call 
were  dispensed  with. 

The  question  then  recurred  upon  the  recon- 
sideration of  the  vote  by  which  the  amend- 
ment was  concurred  in. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  This  is  a  matter  of 
very  considerable  importance,  and  I  do  feel 
that  gentlemen  should  not  act  hastily,  and 
put  this  matter  in  reference  to  the  University 
beyond  the  chance  of  examination.  If  this 
body  refuses  to  reconsider  that  vote,  then,  so 
far  as  the  action  of  this  Convention  is  con- 
cerned, it  is  fixed.  Now  for  one  I  am  not 
disposed  to  incorporate  into  this  Constitution 
any  legislation  which  is  calculated  to  benefit 
this  particiilar  locality  or  that.  But,  sir,  the 
benefit  of  a  system  of  government  for  any 
subject,  depends,  in  a  great  measure,  upon  its 
stability  and  continuance.  I  am  not  disposed 
to  leave  this  University  question  so  open — as 
is  proposed  by  the  amendment  adopted 
yesterday — that  every  Legislature  of  the 
State  of  Minnesota  may  use  it  for  such  pur- 
poses as  will  advance  their  own  interests, 
and  in  the  end  render  useless  tha  grant  of 
the  United  States  to  this  Territory,  for  the 
purposes  for  which  it  was  intended. 

Mr.  V^ILSON.  I  rise  to  a  point  of  order. 
I  would  like  to  hear  my  friend's  ai^ument 
upon  this  matter,  but  I  think  the  question  is 
not  now  before  the  Convention. 

The  PRESIDENT.  The  question  is  upon 
the  motion  to  reconsider. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  Mr.  Pbesidext:  I  am 
not  disposed  to  violate  any  rule  of  the  Con- 
vention, but  I  do  want  to  urge  upon  the  mem- 
bers of  this  Convention  that  they  should  not 
act  too  hastily  upon  this  matter :  that  they 
should  give  it  due  reflection ;  and  I  ask  the 
gentleman  who  made  the  motion  to  reconsider 
to  withdraw  it,  out  of  courtesy  to  this  body, 
so  that  members  may  have  time  to  reflect 
upon  this  matter.  I  am  aware  that  it  was 
local  feeling  which  induced  that  amendment, 
and  I  am  not  prepared  to  say  but  what  it  is 
just ;  but  I  do  not  wish  to  record  my  vote  upon 
it  imtil  I  have' had  time  to  examine  it  further. 
I  want  to  examine  the  Enabling  Act,  and  I 


498 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Satubd at,  August  15. 


want  to  get  a  copy  of  the  original  act  of  Con- 
gress which  reserves  seventy-two  sections, 
and  see  whether  it  harmonizes  with  the  En- 
abling Act.  I  do  not  want  to  act  hastily,  nor 
do  I  want  the  members  of  this  Convention  to 
act  hastily  upon  a  matter  which  many  of  them 
confess  they  do  not  understand.  As  a  mat- 
ter of  courtesy,  then,  I  ask  the  gentleman  to 
withdraw  his  motion  and  let  the  matter  re- 
main as  it  is  for  the  present. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  hope  the  motion  to  re- 
consider will  prevail,  and  that  the  vote  will  be 
reconsidered,  and  the  amendment  not  agreed 
to.  If  it  should  be  reconsidered,  I  propose  to 
ofifer  a  substitute  for  the  section.  If  that  is 
not  satisfactory  I  propose  to  offer  another ; 
and  I  propose  to  offer  substitute  after  substi- 
tute, in  various  forms  to  see  if  this  Convention 
will  not,  in  some  manner,  dispose  of  the  lands 
which  were  set  apart  by  Congress  for  the 
benefit  of  that  University.  I  hope  the  motion 
to  reconsider  will  prevail,  although  I  am  per- 
fectly well  aware  that  the  gentleman  who 
made  the  motion,  did  not  make  it  for  the  pur- 
pose of  having  it  prevail,  but  for  the  purpose 
of  clinching,  as  he  supposes  the  effect  will  be, 
the  amendment  which  was  adopted  yesterday. 
But  the  gentleman  will  fail  in  his  purpose. 
The  effect  of  his  motion  will  only  be  to  amend 
section  four  as  it  now  stands  in  the  report,  in 
a  certain  manner ;  but  after  that,  as  I  under- 
stand, a  substitute  as  further  amended  will 
be  in  order  to  the  whole  section  as  amended. 

The  PRESIDENT.  It  is  the  opinion  of 
the  Chair  that  it  will  be  in  order  to  offer  a 
substitute  for  the  whole  section  as  amended. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  That  being  so,  I  care 
not  particularly  whether  gentlemen  see  fit  to 
refuse  to  reconsider  the  vote  which  they  took 
yesterday  by  which  they — 

Mr.  "WILSON.  I  rise  to  a  point  of  order. 
Is  not  this  a  little  like  the  Dred  Scott  decision 
— deciding  something  which  is  not  before  the 
Convention? 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  If  the  gentleman  will 
have  a  little  regard  for  the  rules  of  this  Con- 
vention, ho  will  keep  his  scat  while  gentlemen 
are  speaking  perfectly  in  order  to  the  ques- 
tion. I  am  speaking  to  the  motion  of  the 
gentleman  from  Waseca  county,  upon_  the 
motion  to  reconsider  a  certain  vote ;  and  I  say 
I  care  not  greatly  whether  it  is  reconsidered 
or  not.    I  prefer  rather  that  it  should  be,  and 


I  decidedly  prefer  that  the  section  shall  be 
left  as  it  stood  yesterday  previous  to  the  adop- 
tion of  that  amendment. 

But  I  say,  whether  it  is  or  not.  I  propose 
to  offer  a  substitute,  and  if  it  does  not  meet 
the  wishes  of  the  Convention,  I  propose  to 
ascertain  if  any  substitute  can  be  offered 
which  will  meet  with  their  approval,  and  as- 
certain whether  they  are,  or  are  not  in  favor 
of  carrying  out  the  contract  which  has  been 
made  by  Congress. 

I  propose  at  this  time,  while  I  am  upon 
this  subject,  to  read  the  act  of  Congress  of 
February  19th,  1851,  upon  this  subject. 

"Skc.  2.  And  be  it  further  Enacted,  That  the 
Secretary  of  the  Interior  be  and  he  hereby  is  au 
thorized  and  directed  to  set  apart  and  reserve  from 
sale  out  of  the  public  lands  within  the  Territory  of 
Minnesota  to  which  the  Indian  title  has  been  or 
may  be  extinguished,  and  not  otherwise  appro- 
priated a  quantity  of  land  not  exceeding  two  entire 
townships  for  the  use  and  support  of  a  University 
in  said  Territory  and  for  no  other  use  and  purpose 
whatever,  to  be  located  in  legal  subdivisions  of  not 
less  than  one  entire  section." 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  I  ask  the  gentleman 
to  read  the  first  section. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  propose  to  read  such 
sections  only  as  have  any  reference  to  the 
subject.  The  first  section  has  no  reference 
to  the  subject  whatever.  It  has  reference  to 
school  lands  in  Oregon  and  Minnesota.  Now 
it  appears  that  in  February,  1851,  the  Con- 
gress of  the  United  States  enacted  that  the 
Secretary  of  the  Interior  should  set  apart  and 
reserve  from  sale,  out  of  the  public  lands  in 
this  Territory  not  otherwise  appropriated,  for 
the  use  and  support  of  a  University  in  the 
Territory  of  Minnesota  a  quantity  not  exceed- 
ing two  townships  which  shall  be  located  by 
legal  subdivision  of  not  less  than  one  section 
in  a  place.  Now  that  is  in  fact  a  grant  of 
land.  The  grant  is  not  perfected,  but  that 
land,  as  was  stated  in  this  Convention  yes- 
terday, has  been,  under  the  direction  of  the 
Secretary  of  Interior,  partly  and  actually  lo- 
cated and  approved  by  liim,  and  set  apart  and 
reserved  for,  what? — for  a  University  in  the 
Territory. 

Now,"  Mr.  President,  the  Territory  of  Min- 
nesota, by  an  act  of  its  Territorial  assembly, 
have  incorporated  the  University  of  Minneso- 
ta, and  they  have  given  a  pledge  of  their  sol- 
emn enactment  tliat  this  land  which  was 
granted  by  Congress  to  the  Territory,  should 


MEsXESOTA  CONTENTION  DEBATES— Saturday,  Acgcst  15. 


499 


be  devoted  exclusively  to  that  University  of 
Minnesota.  And  I  ask  of  this  Convention  if 
they  are  willing  to  violate  the  solemn  pledge 
of  the  Legislature  of  the  Territory  in  a  mat- 
ter in  which  the  Territory  alone  is  interested 
— because  the  grant  is  for  the  support  of  a 
University  in  the  Territory '?  I  leave  it  for 
gentlemen  to  decide  for  themselves  whether  it 
is  the  intention  of  Congress,  in  the  Enabling 
Act,  to  set  apart  and  reserve  any  other  two 
townships  of  land  or  whether  it  is  merely  th<* 
completion  of  the  same  grant.  But  this  I  do 
say,  that  Congress  has  granted  and  set  apart 
two  townships  of  land  for  the  benefit  of  a 
University  in  the  Territory.  The  Territory 
itself  has  appropriated  that  land  to  the  use 
of  a  University  which  they  have  incorporated. 
And  what  I  say  is  that  this  Convention  should 
not  break  over  and  violate  an  act  of  the  Leg- 
islature upon  the  subject.  I  will  read  for  in- 
formation the  section  I  propose  to  offer  as  a 
substitute,  if  the  vote  is  reconsidered. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  I  rise  to  a  point  of 
order.  If  I  recollect  right,  this  Convention 
adopted  a  rule  that  no  member  of  this  Con- 
vention should  speak  but  once  upon  any 
proposition  which  may  come  before  the  Con- 
vention, and  only  a  certain  number  of  minutes. 
I  recollect  distinctly  I  opposed  that  rule. 

The  PRESIDENT.  The  gentleman  has 
spoken  fifteen  minutes,  and  if  the  gentleman 
&x)m  Steele  insists  upon  the  point  of  order, 
the  chair  will  have  to  enforce  the  rule. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.     I  do. 

Mr.  WILSON,  I  imderstood  the  gentle- 
man to  allude  to  me  as  making  the  motion  to 
reconsider.  He  does  me  honor  overmuch  in 
so  doing.  It  is  my  friend  (Mr.  McKcxe)  upon 
my  right  who  deserves  the  honor  of  that, 
though  I  am  with  him  heartily.  Now  as  to 
this  being  a  local  matter  as  stated  by  my 
friend  from  Chisago  (Mr.  Stasxard),  I  deny 
that  it  is  local,  so  far  as  the  friends  of  this 
amendment  are  concerned ;  or  if  it  be  local, 
it  is  local  with  a  large  part  of  the  Territory. 
True  it  is  local,  if  taken  in  comparison  with 
the  United  States,  because  it  is  a  territorial 
matter.  But  if  taken  in  connection  with  the 
Territory,  I  say  it  is  not  local.  The  local 
feeling  is  all  upon  the  other  side.  Take  the 
votes  and  see.  Now  when  we  have  agreed 
and  settled  this  matter,  I  do  not  want  our 
friends  who  voted  for  this  amendment,  to  have 


a  tacit  insult  offered  to  them  by  saying  they 
wUl  change  their  votes  to-day.  Other  gentle- 
men may  change,  but  I  do  not  think  any 
friend  of  this  amendment  will.  Here  a  gen- 
tleman gets  up  and  gives  notice  that  he  will 
offer  amendment  after  amendment  and  sub- 
stitute after  substitute.  It  is  not  the  way  to 
treat  reasonable  men,  by  threatening  to  drive 
them  into  a  matter.  Our  friend  from  Chisago, 
(Mr.  Stasxabd)  who  spoke  upon  this  subject 
this  morning,  voted  the  other  way  last  night, 
and  I  supposed,  then,  he  did  so,  that  he  might 
move  to  reconsider  himself  sometime;  and 
now  I  have  no  doubt  about  it. 

As  to  springing  a  trap  upon  this  matter,  I 
would  ask  who  called  the  previous  question 
the  other  day  upon  a  certain  motion  ?  "Who 
did  if?  The  gentleman  who  does  not  want 
us  to  do  so  here — I  believe  it  was. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  What  question  was 
it  on? 

Mr.  WILSON.  The  question  of  leaving  to 
the  people  the  question  of  boundary  lines. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  No  sir,  I  did  not  caU 
the  previous  question. 

Jlr.  WILSON.  Then  if  I  am  mistaken, 
it  was  one  in  that  same  crowd.  It  was  one 
of  the  same  sort.  I  may  be  mistaken  as  to 
the  particular  gentieman.  Now  sir,  we  dis- 
cussed this  question  yesterday  until  there  was 
no  persoij  last  night  seeking  the  floor  upon  it, 
and  the  only  groimd  of  keeping  this  matter 
before  us  any  longer  is  to  spend  time,  and 
tire  gentiemen  out,  or  scare  them  into  for- 
warding the  wishes  of  certain  gentiemen  here. 
That  was  the  way  gentieman  were  scared  the 
other  day  I  beUeve,  but  I  do  not  believe  they 
will  be  scared  upon  this  subject. 

Mr.  NORTH.  I  have  only  a  word  to  say 
upon  this  matter.  I  do  protest  against  some 
of  the  remarks  of  the  gentieman  from  Wino- 
na, with  all  due  respect  to  that  gentieman.  I 
protest  against  the  taunts  and  flings  and 
sneers  of  that  gentieman  against  those  who 
happen  to  differ  with  him  on  questions  before 
this  Convention.  It  is  not  respectful  to  throw 
out  flings  and  inunendoes  that  there  was  not 
good  faith,  nor  honesty  of  purpose  in  the  gen- 
tleman from  Chisago  moving  to  reconsider, 
and  voting  as  he  did  upon  another  occasion. 
But  the  gentieman  from  Winona  happens  to 
be  mistaken  and  he  charges  tiie  gentleman 
from  Chisago  with  a  motion  which  I  made 


500 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Satuedat,  August  15. 


myself.  When  the  gentleman  from  Chisago 
denied  having  made  the  motion,  the  gentleman 
acknowledged  that  he  was  mistaken,  but  said 
it  was  "one  of  that  crowd"  or  "one  of  the 
same  sort,"  as  though  there  were  a  class  of 
persons  here  acting  in  bad  faith,  and  from  in- 
sincere purposes.  Now  I  protest  against  that 
style  of  remark.  I  see  no  reason  for  it.  Gen- 
tlemen have  a  right  to  move  to  reconsider,  and 
they  are  entitled  to  be  treated  with  respect 
upon  this  side  as  well  as  upon  the  other. 

A  word  in  reference  to  his  long  train  of  re- 
marks about  keeping  this  question  up,  after  it 
has  once  been  settled.  Is  the  gentleman's 
memory  so  short  that  he  does  not  remember 
how  many  times  that  question  of  boundary 
was  brought  up,  and  pressed  by  that  very  gen- 
tleman himself  after  we  all  supposed  it  had 
been  settled  ?  Now  if  he  could  be  indulged 
in  all  that,  he  should  be  the  last  man  .to  com- 
plain he  should  not  be  satisfied  with  the  man- 
ner in  which  we  may  settle  this  question. 
Now  there  are  persons  having  very  deep  feel- 
ings in  regard  to  this  University  question.  It 
is  a  question  of  magnitude  and  importance. 
If  they  have  feeling  upon  it,  it  is  not  at  all 
strange  or  singular.  If  they  want  our  action 
reconsidered  it  seems  to  me  that  it  is  their 
right  to  move  to  do  so,  and  their  right  to  have 
gentlemanly  treatment  from  members  differ- 
ing with  them. 

Mr.  WILSON.  It  has  got  to  be  a  little  too 
common  recently — 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  call  the  gentleman  to 
order.     The  gentleman  has  spoken  once. 

The  PRESIDENT.  The  point  of  order  is 
a  good  one,  if  the  gentleman  himself  or  any 
other  member  desires  to  speak. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  I  move  the  previous 
question. 

Mr.  WILSON.  Will  the  gentleman  give 
me  permission  to  make  an  explanation  ?  That 
remark  about  ungentlemanly  conduct  has  been 
made  several  times. 

Mr.  COGGS  WELL.  WeU,  I  withdraw  my 
motion. 

The  PRESIDENT.  If  no  other  gentleman 
desires  the  floor,  the  gentleman  from  Winpna 
will  proceed. 

Mr.  WILSON.  I  remarked  that  the  gen- 
tleman from  Chisago,  (Mr.  Stannabu)  voted 
last  night  on  the  side  of  the  question  to  which 
he  was  opposed,  for  tlic  purpose  of  moving  a 


reconsideration.  I  do  not  suppose  there  is  a 
gentleman  in  this  Hall  who  wUl  deny  it  or 
doubt  it.  As  to  its  being  unmanly  to  make 
any  such  remark,  I  see  nothing  exceptionable 
in  it,  and  the  accusation  of  the  gentleman 
from  Rice  County  (Mr.  North)  is  one  which 
I  think  is  not  well  founded.  As  to  my  ac- 
cusing any  person  of  making  a  motion  which 
was  made  by  that  gentleman,  I  did  not  do  so. 
The  motion  to  which  I  referred  was  made  by 
the  gentleman  from  Hennepin  County  (Mr. 
Aldeich). 

The  gentleman  from  Rice  did  not  have 
anything  whatever  to  do  with  it. 

Mr.  BATES.  The  charge  of  being  influ- 
enced by  sectional  feehngs,  comes  with  a  bad 
grace  from  the  gentleman  from  Winona.  When 
the  question-  was  introduced  here  by  the 
gentleman  from  St.  Anthony,  (Mr.  Secombe) 
a  few  days  ago,  that  gentleman  said  that  were 
that  institution  located  at  Winona,  he  would 
go  for  it,  and  now  we  are  charged  here  with 
being  influenced  by  sectional  feelings. 

Mr.  WILSON.  Who  ever  heard  me  say 
that? 

Mr.  BATES.  There  are  gentlemen  here 
who  heard  it. 

Mr.  WILSON.  If  I  ever  said  it,  I  must 
have  said  it  in  sport.  But  I  do  not  recollect 
of  saying  any  such  thing,  and  I  do  not  believe 
I  ever  did. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  I  am  responsible  and 
hold  myself  responsible  to  my  constituents 
for  all  the  votes  I  cast.  Gentlemen  know  very 
well  what  position  I  have  held  upon  this  mat- 
ter. A  few  days  ago  when  the  gentleman 
from  St.  Anthony  (Mr.  Secosibe,)  offered  an 
amendment  relating  to  this  subject,  to  another 
report  which  was  then  under  consideration, 
I  opposed  it,  raising  the  objection  that  that 
amendment  was  not  carrying  out  the  provis- 
ions of  the  act  incorporating  the  University, 
and  I  thought  it  was  improper  for  this  Con- 
vention to  take  any  other  course  than  to  carry 
out  that  act.  Now  here  is  a  section  in  this 
bOl,  which  the  gentleman  from  Winona  moves 
to  strike  out,  wliich  he  knows  accords  very 
well  with  my  feeUngs  expressed  at  that  time. 

Mr.  CLEGIIORN.  I  move  the  'previous 
question. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  The  yeas  and  nays 
have  been  ordered  upon  the  motion  to  recon- 
sider, and  the  President  cannot  entertain  any 


MIN^^:SOTA  convention  debates— Sattodat,  ArGUST  15. 


601 


other  motion  after  that,  except  it  be  for  a  call 
of  the  convention. 

Mr.  BATES.  I  move  that  there  be  a  call 
of  the  Convention. 

A  call  was  ordered,  and  the  roll  being  called, 
the  following  members  Ailed  to  answer  to  their 
names: 

Messrs.  Ater,  Cedebstaji,  Foster,  Gal- 
BRAiTH,  Hall,  Lyle,  Perktss  and  Thompson. 

Mr.  COGGS^TILL  moved  that  all  further 
proceedings  under  the  call  be  dispensed  with. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  On  that  motion  I  caU 
for  the  yeas  and  nays. 

The  yeas  and  nays  were  ordered,  and  the 
question  being  taken,  it  was  decided  in  the 
negative — yeas  twenty-three,  nays  twenty- 
seven,  as  follows : 

Teax. — Messrs.  Baldwin,  Billings,  Butler,  Cleg- 
horn,  Colbum,  Coggswell,  Duley,  Dickerson,  Grer- 
rish,  Harding,  Hudson,  Hanson,  HoUey,  King, 
McKune,  Kemp,  Mantor,  ilcCann,  McClure,  Mills, 
Peckham,  Bobbins  and  Wilson. — 2-3. 

Nays. — Messrs.  Aldrich,  Anderson,  Bates,  Bar- 
tholomew, BoUes,  Coombs,  Eschlie,  Folsom,  Hall, 
Hayden,  Lowe,  Messer,  Morgan,  Murphy,  North, 
Phelps,  Putnam,  Russell,  Stannard,  Sheldon,  Se- 
combe.  Smith,  Vaughn,  Walker,  Winell,  Watson 
and  Mr.  President. — 27. 

The  Sergeant-at-arms  was  directed  to  re- 
port the  absentees  in  their  seats. 

Mr.  "WATSON  moved  to  reconsider  the 
vote  by  which  the  Convention  refused  to  sus- 
pend all  further  proceedings  under  the  call. 

Mr.  MORGAN  called  for  the  yeas  and  nays 
upon  that  motion. 

The  yeas  and  nays  were  ordered,  and  the 
question  being  taken,  it  was  decided  in  the 
negative — yeas  twenty-six,  nays  twenty-sLsr, 
as  follows : 

Teas. — Messrs.  Anderson,  Baldwin,  Billings, 
Butler,  Cleghorn,  Colbum,  Coggswell,  Davis, 
Duley,  Gerrish,  Harding,  Hudson,  Hanson,  Holley, 
King,  Kemp,  Lowe,  Mantor,  McCann,  McClure, 
Mills,  Peckham,  Bobbins,  Stannard,  Watson  and 
Wilson.— 26. 

Nays. — Messrs,  Aldrich,  Bates,  Bortholemew, 
BoUes,  Coombs,  Dickerson,  Eschlie,  Folsom,  Gal- 
braith.  Hall,  Hayden,  McKune,  Messer,  Morgan, 
Murphy,  North,  Phelps,  Putnam,  Russell,  Sheldon, 
Secombe,  Smith,  Vaughn,  Walker,  Winell  and  Mr. 
President. — 26. 

Mr.  McKUNE.  I  move  that  the  Conven- 
tion adjoimi  without  day. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  I  rise  to  a  question  of 
of  order.  No  motion  is  in  order  now  but  a 
simple  motion  to  adjourn. 


The  PRESIDENT.  The  point  of  order  is 
a  good  one. 

Mr.  STAN"NARD  moved  (at  10  o'clock  and 
20  minutes)  that  the  Convention  adjourn. 

Mr.  STANNARD  proceeded  to  make  a 
remark  upon  the  motion,  but  was  loudly 
called  to  order  by  many  members. 

The  PRESIDENT.  A  motion  to  adjourn 
is  not  debatable. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  I  only  wished  to  say 
if  the  Convention  refuses  to  adjourn  on  this 
motion,  we  may  have  to  sit  here  all  night. 

The  motion  to  adjourn  was  lost. 

After  an  interval  of  half  an  hour. 

The  Sergeant-at-arms  reported  all  the  ab- 
sentees who  were  in  the  city,  in  their  seats, 
except  Mr.  Lyle,  who  was  sick. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  move  that  all  further 
proceedings  under  the  call  be  dispensed  with. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  I  rise  to  a  point  of 
order.  My  idea  is^hat  a  motion  of  that  kind 
is  not  in  order  at  this  time. 

The  PRESIDENT.  The  Chair  is  of  opin- 
ion that  some  other  business  having  been 
transacted  since  that  motion  was  made  before, 
it  is  now  in  order.  A  motion  to  adjourn  has 
been  made  and  lost,  and  a  report  has  been 
received  from  the  Sergeant  at-arms. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to,  and  all  further 
proceedings  under  the  caU  were  dispensed 
with. 

The  question  recurring  upon  the  motion  to 
reconsider, 

The  question  was  put,  and  it  was  decided 
in  the  negative — yeas  twenty-five,  nays  twen- 
ty-eight, as  follows : 

Yeas. — Messrs.  Aldrich,  Bates,  Bartholemew, 
Coombs,  Eschlie,  Foster,  Folsom,  Gralbraith,  Hall, 
Hayden,  Lowe,  Messer,  Morgan,  Murphy,  North, 
Putnam,  Russell,  Stannard,  Sheldon,  Secombe, 
Smith,  Vaughn,  Walker,  Winell  and  Mr.  Preai 
dent.— 25. 

Nays. — Messrs.  Anderson,  Baldwin,  Billings, 
BoUes,  Butler,  Cleghorn,  Colbum,  Coggswell,  Da- 
vis, Duley,  Dickerson,  Gerrish,  Harding,  Hud- 
son, Hanson,  Holley,  King,  Kemp,  Mantor,  Mc- 
Cann, McClure,  Mills,  Phelps,  Perkins,  Peckham, 
Bobbins,  Watson  and  Wilson. — 28. 

So  the  motion  to  reconsider  was  lost. 

Mr.  SECOMBE  offered  the  following  sub- 
stitute for  section  fom*. 

Sec.  4r.  The  proceeds  of  all  lands  set  apart  and 
reserved  by  and  under  the  act  of  Congress,  ap- 
proved February  19,  1851,  for  the  use  and  support 
of  the  University  in  the  Territory  of  Minnesota, 


502 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Saturday,  August  15. 


shall  be  a  perpetual  fund  to  be  called  "The  Uni- 
versity Fund,"  which  shall  be  appropriated  to  the 
use  and  support  of  "  The  University  of  Minne- 
sota;" and  the  location  of  the  said  University 
under  existing  laws  is  hereby  confirmed." 

Mr.  EOBBINS.  I  move  the  previous 
question. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  had  the  floor,  and  I 
claim  that  the  previous  question  cannot  be 
moved  while  I  am  upon  the  floor. 

The  PRESIDENT.  It  is  the  opinion  of  the 
Chair  that  after  the  gentleman  made  his  mo- 
tion for  the  adoption  of  the  substitute,  and  it 
was  seconded — that  he  did  not  again  address 
the  Chair  to  make  any  remarks,  and  hence 
that  the  motion  for  the  previous  question  is  in 
order. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  The  only  reason  was  that 
I  was  obliged  to  leave  my  seat  to  carry  my 
substitute  to  the  Secretary,  yet  I  retained  my 
position  on  the  floor. 

The  PRESIDENT.  The  Chair,  as  a  mat- 
ter of  course,  was  unable  to  know  what  were 
the  gentleman's  intentions.  He  offered  a 
substitute.  It  was  read  and  immediately 
thereafter  the  previous  question  was  moved 
and  seconded. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  caU  for  the  yeas  and 
nays  upon  the  previous  question. 

The  yeas  and  nays  were  ordered. 

Mr,  DAVIS  moved  a  call  of  the  Con- 
vention. 

A  call  was  refused. 

The  question  was  then  taken,  and  it  was 
decided  in  the  negative — yeas  twenty-four, 
nays  twenty -nine,  as  follows : 

Feas. — Messrs.  Baldwin,  Billings,  BolleSj^ Butler, 
Colburn,  Coggswell,  Coe,  Davis,  Duley,  Dicker- 
son,  Gerrish,  Harding,  Hudson,  Hanson,  Holley, 
King,  Kemp,  Mantor,  McClure,  Mills,  Peckham, 
Robbin.s,  Watson,  and  Wilson. — 24. 

JVai/8. — Messrs.  Aldrich,  Anderson,  Bates,  Bar- 
tholomew, Cleghorn,  Coombs,  Eschlie,  Foster, 
Folsom,  Galbraith,  Hall,  Hayden,  Lowe,  McCann, 
Messer,  Morgan,  Murphy,  North,  Phelps,  Perkins, 
Putnam,  Russell,  Stannard,  Sheldon,  Secombe, 
Smith,  Walker,  Winell,  and  the  President.— 29. 

So  the  motion  was  refused. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  The  substitute  which  I 
have  offered  for  the  section,  as  it  now  stands 
amended,  provides  for  the  land  which  has 
been  set  apart  and  reserved  by  the  act  of 
Congress  passed  in  1851,  jvhich  is  a  quantity 
not  exceeding  two  townships,  which,  by  the 
provisions  of  that  act,  was  to  be  set  apart  and 


reserved  by  the  Secretary  of  the  Interior  for 
the  use  and  support  of  a  University  in  the 
Territory  of  Minnesota,  and  for  no  other  use 
or  purpose  whatever.  That  land  has  been 
actually,  partly  located  under  the  direction  of 
the  Secretary  of  the  Interior,  and  is  reserved 
and  taken  out  of  the  lands  which  are  subject 
to  sale,  and  remains  University  lands.  The 
Territorial  Legislature  of  this  Territory 
passed  an  act  the  same  year,  by  which  the 
proceeds  of  that  land  were  ordered  to  be 
kept  in  a  perpetual  fund  and  appropriated  to 
the  use  and  support  of  the  University  of 
Minnesota,  incorporated  by  an  act  passed 
that  year.  Under  the  provisions  of  that  act, 
the  Regents  of  the  University  of  Minnesota 
have  been  recognized  by  the  Secretary  of  the 
Interior  and  been  authorised  by  him  to  select 
lands  throughout  the  Territory  under  the 
provisions  of  the  act  of  Congress ;  and  the 
selections  made  by  them  have  been  passed 
by  him.  Under  the  provisions  of  these  acts 
— the  act  of  Congress,  and  the  act  of  the 
Territorial  Legislature  of  this  Ten'itory — this 
University  has  been  in  actual  existence,  and 
has  been  in  operation  for  the  last  six  years. 
By  the  terms  of  the  act  of  the  Legislature, 
the  Territory  of  Minnesota,  which  was  the 
recipient  of  that  grant,  pledged  its  solemn 
faith  to  the  University  of  Minnesota  that  the 
proceeds  of  this  land  shall  be  a  perpetual 
fund  for  its  use.  It  has  also  located  that  in- 
stitution at  or  near  the  Falls  of  St.  Anthony ; 
and  under  and  by  the  provisions  of  these 
acts  of  Congress  and  of  the  Territorial  As- 
sembly of  this  Territory,  there  have  been 
erected  buildings,  and,  as  I  stated  before,  the 
University  has  been  in  regular  process  of 
advancement,  and  has  been  under  the  regula- 
tions which  were  imposed  upon  it  by  the  Ter- 
ritory of  Minnesota,  according  to  the  Territo- 
rial Act,  which  is  subject,  at  any  time  to  al- 
teration, amendment,  modification  or  repeal. 
Now  what  I  ask  of  gentlemen  of  the  Conven- 
tion is,  that  they  will  regard  the  sacredness 
of  compacts.  I  trust  no  gentleman  who 
holds  a  seat  in  this  Convention  would  wish  to 
disregard  that.  I  ask  that  it  may  be  done  at 
this  time  in  order  that  the  matter  may  be  put 
upon  a  permanent  basis,  so  that  the  Legisla- 
ture of  the  State  may  not  be  called  upon  ev- 
ery session  to  make  a  further  disposition  of 
this  matter. 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Sattjmay,  Acgcst  15. 


503 


Objections  have  been  made  by  gentlemen 
upon  this  floor  to  the  section  as  it  now  stands, 
and  as  it  stood  before  it  was  amended  by  the 
motion  of  the  gentleman  from  Winona,  on 
the  ground  that  it  appropriated,  not  only  all 
the  lands  that  hare  been  granted,  but  also  all 
that  should  be  granted  hereafter  or  set  apart 
and  reserved,  to  the  University  of  Minnesota. 
It  has  been  contended  by  some  gentlemen — 
with  what  degree  of  plausibility  I  leave  to  the 
Convention  to  determine — that  Congress  had 
provided  for  two  grants,  that  the  grant  men- 
tioned in  the  Enabling  Act  was  a  dififerent  one 
from  the  grant  mentioned  in  the  act  of  Febru- 
ary, 1851,  and,  consequently,  that  there  were 
four  townships  intended;  that  two  were  in- 
tended for  the  Territorial  University,  and  two 
intended  for  the  State  University.  If  that  be 
the  case,  Mr.  Presidext,  the  substitute  which 
I  propose  does  not  affect  the  two  which  are 
mentioned  as  granted  to  the  State  University ; 
and  if  gentlemen  here,  who  have  opposed  this 
section  as  it  was  originally  reported  by  the 
committee,  upon  the  ground  that  the  fund  is 
going  to  be  too  large — taking  the  view  of  it 
taken  by  the  gentleman  from  Fiilmore  county 
(Mr.  BiLLiXGS,) — will  look  at  this  substitute, 
they  will  see  that  there  are  left,  subject  to 
the  entire  disposal  of  the  Legislature,  two  en- 
tire townships  of  land  to  be  appropriated  to 
another  University  hereafter  to  be  incorpora- 
ted and  located  as  the  people  of  the  State 
may  desire. 

I  trust  then  that  this  matter  will  be  consid- 
ered calmly  and  without  reference  to  any  par- 
ticular locality.  It  is  true,  inevitably  true, 
that  those  members  of  this  Convention  who 
repr^ent  the  immediate  locality  of  the  Uni- 
versity of  Minnesota  feel  perhaps  a  greater 
interest,  may  perhaps  feel  even  a  different  in- 
terest, and  naturally  would  feel  a  different 
interest,  from  those  representing  other  locali- 
ties. But  I  trust  th'ey  will  have  the  credit 
for  feeling,  at  the  same  time,  an  interest 
which  should  be  the  common  interest  of  ev- 
ery member  of  this  Convention — that  the 
University  of  Minnesota,  as  it  exists  under 
the  acts  I  have  mentioned,  shall  carry  out  the 
objects  for  which  it  was  intended. 

The  propriety  of  dividing  up  that  fund  has 
been  fully  discussed  here.  It  is  well  under- 
stood that  the  provisions  of  the  act  of  the 
Territorial  Legislature  are,  that  the  Regents, 


if  they  deem  it  expedient,  may  receive  into 
connection  with  the  University  any  College 
in  the  Territory,  upon  application  to  the 
Board  of  Trustees,  and  such  Colleges  shall 
be  subject  to  the  visitation  of  the  Regents. 
The  substitute  proposed  by  me,  does  not  pro- 
pose to  alter  that  in  the  least  respect.  Gen- 
tlemen have  said  upon  the  floor,  that  they  did 
not  wish  to  alter  it.  Gentlemen  have  denied 
any  intention  or  desire  either  to  divide  up 
the  fund  otherwise  than  mentioned  in  the  act 
of  incorporation,  or  to  remove  its  locality.  I 
ask,  then,  gentlemen  to  give  this  matter  a 
candid  consideration,  and  let  it  be  disconnect- 
ed with — 

Mr.  "WILSON.  I  rise  to  a  point  of  order. 
The  gentleman  has  spoken  fifteen  minutes. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  The  gentleman  is  mis- 
taken. I  took  pains  to  note  the  clock  myself 
on  this  occasion,  so  that  the  question  might 
not  be  sprung  upon  me.  I  trust  no  Unes 
win  be  drawn  here  upon  locality.  I  hope  no 
gentleman  will  say  here  that  because  certain 
gentlemen  have  seen  fit  to  vote  upon  other 
questions  as  they  thought  their  duty  impelled 
them  to  do,  therefore  they  wUl  vote  against 
them  upon  this  question.  Let  us  look  upon 
this  in  its  true  light,  as  members  of  the  Con- 
vention representing  the  future  State  of  Min- 
nesota. If  it  is  so  looked  upon,  I  believe 
some  substitute  will  be  adopted  for  the  sec- 
tion as  it  now  stands,  which  will  permanently 
recognize  the  contract  which  has  been  made 
by.  the  Territory  of  Minnesota  in  regard  to  the 
fund  which  was  granted  to  the  Territory  of 
Minnesota. 

Mr.  CLEGHORN.  I  move  that  this  re- 
port and  pending  amendments  be  laid  upon 
the  table  until  Monday  next  at  half  past  two 
o'clock. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  should  like  to  know 
the  gentleman's  reasons,  for  that  motion.  If 
there  is  any  good  reason  I  should  not  object 
to  it,  but  I  cannot  see  why  we  cannot  con- 
sider it  to-day  as  well  as  then. 

Mr.  CLEGHORN.  There  are  many  good 
reasons.  It  is  apparent  to  every  one  that 
very  great  feeling  exists  upon  this  subject 
Members  want  time  to  consider  this  question, 
to  see  if  some*measiu*es  cannot  be  adopted  to 
meet  the  diflBculties  in  the  case. 

Mr.  MLTIPHY.    I  hope  the  motion  will 


504 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Monday,  August  17. 


prevail.  There  appears  to  be  a  great  deal  of 
feeling  and  excitement  about  this  matter. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to. 

And  then,  on  motion;of  Mr.  MANTOR,  (at 
eleven  o'clock)  the  Convention  took  a  recess 
mitil  half  past  two  o'clock. 

AFTERNOON  SESSION. 
The  Convention  was  called  tq  order  at  half 
past  two  o'clock. 

STATE    SEAL   AND    COAT    OF   AEMS. 

Mr.  BATES.  I  would  enquire  what  dis- 
position was  made  of  the  report  on  the  State 
Seal? 

The  PRESIDENT.  It  is  lying  upon  the 
table. 

Mr.  HARDING.  Has  it  been  considered 
in  committee  of  the  Whole  ? 

The  PRESIDENT.  It  has,  and  the  ques- 
tion on  it,  is  upon  ordering  it  to  be  engrossed 
for  a  third  reading. 

Mr.  BATES.  Has  it  been  considered  in 
Convention,  and  were  any  amendments  made 
to  it? 

The  PRESIDENT.  There  was  one  amend- 
ment proposed  and  adopted  by  the  Conven- 
tion. 

Mr.  BATES.  I  move  that  the  report  be 
taken  from  the  table  and  be  ordered  to  be  en- 
grossed for  a  third  reading. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to,  and  the  report 
was  ordered  to  be  engrossed. 

PREAMBLE   AND   BILL   OF  RIGHTS. 

Mr.  MANTOR.  I  move  that  report  Num- 
ber one,  upon  the  Preamble  and  Bill  of  Rights, 
a  printed  engrossed  copy  of  which  lies  upon 
our  desks,  be  now  taken  up,  and  read  a  third 
time  and  put  upon  its  passage. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to. 

The  report  on  the  Preamble  and  Bill  of 
Rights  was  accordingly  taken  up,  read  a  third 
time  and  passed. 

BANKING   CORPORATIONS,  AC. 

On  motion  of  Mr.  SECOMBE,  engrossed 
report  number  five,  on  Banking  and  Corpo- 
rations other  than  Municipal,  was  taken  from 
the  table,  read  a  third  time  and  passed. 

And  then,  on  motion  of  Mr.  FOSTER,  (at 
three  o'clock)  the  Convention  adjourned  until 
Monday  next. 


THIRTY-FIRST  DAY. 


Monday,  August  17th,  1857. 

The  Convention  met  at  nine  o'clock,  a.  m. 

Prayer  by  the  Chaplain,  Rev.  E.  D.  Neill. 

The  Journal  of  Saturday  was  read  and  ap- 
proved. 

Mr.  MANTOR,  from  the  committee  on  En- 
grossment, reported  back,  as  correctly  en- 
grossed, report  number  seventeen,  on  the 
State  Seal  and  Coat  of  Arms. 

SCHEDULE. 

Mr.  FOSTER,  fropi  the  committee  on  the 
Schedule,  made  the  following  report : 

"  Section  1.  That  no  inconvenience  may  arise 
by  reason  of  a  change  from  a  territorial  to  a  per- 
manent State  government,  it  is  declared,  that  all 
rights,  actions,  judgments,  claims  and  contracts, 
as  well  of  individuals  as  of  bodies  corporate,  shall 
continue  as  if  no  such  change  had  taken  place,  and 
all  process  which  may  be  issued  under  the  author- 
ity of  the  Territory  of  Minnesota,  previous  to  the 
organization  of  the  State  government,  shall  be  as 
valid  as  if  issued  in  the  name  of  the  State. 

"  Sec.  2.  All  laws  now  in  force  in  the  Territory 
of  Minnesota,  which  are  not  repugnant  to  thisCon- 
stitutiofl,  shall  remain  in  force  until  they  expire 
by  their  own  limitation,  or  are  altered  or  repealed 
by  the  Legislature. 

"Sec.  3.  All  fines,  penalties  or  forfeitures  ac- 
cruing to  the  Territory  of  Minnesota,  shall  enure 
to  the  use  of  the  State. 

"Sec.  4.  All  recognizances  heretofore  taken, 
or  which  may  be  taken  before  the  change  from  a 
territorial  to  a  permanent  State  government,  shall 
remain  valid,  and  shall  pass  to,  and  may  be  pros- 
ecuted in  the  name  of  the  State ;  and  all  bonds 
executed  to  the  Governor  of  the  Territory,  or  to 
any  other  officer  or  court  in  his  or  their  official  ca- 
pacity, shall  pass  to  the  Governor  or  other  ^ate 
authorities  and  their  successors  in  office,  for  tho 
uses  therein  respectively  expressed,  and  may  be 
sued  for  and  recovered  accordingly ;  and  all  the 
estate  or  property,  real,  personal  or  mixed,  and  all 
judgments,  bonds,  specialties,  choses  in  action, 
and  claims  or  debts  of  whatsoever  description,  of 
the  Territory  of  Minnesota,  shall  enure  to  and 
vest  in  the  State  of  Minnesota,  and  maj  be  sued 
for  and  recovered  in  the  same  manner  and  to  the 
same  extent,  by  the  State  of  Minnesota,  as  the 
same  could  have  been  by  the  Territory  of  Minne- 
sota. All  criminal  prosecutions  and  penal  actions 
which  may  have  arisen,  or  which  may  arise  before 
the  change  from  a  territorial  to  a  State  govern- 
ment, and  which  shall  then  be  pending,  shall  be 
prosecuted  to  judgment  and  execution  in  the  name 
of  the  State.  All  offences  committed  against  the 
laws  of  tho  Territory  of  Minnesota,  before  tho 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Monday,  AcarsT  17. 


505 


change  from  a  territorial  to  a  State  government, 
and  which  shall  not  be  prosecuted  before  such 
change,  may  be  prosecuted  in  the  name  and  by 
the  authority  of  the  State  of  Minnesota,  with  like 
eflFect  as  though  such  change  had  not  taken  place ; 
and  all  penalties  incurred  shall  remain  the  same 
as  if  this  Constitution  had  not  been  adopted.  All 
actions  at  law,  and  suits  in  equity,  which  may  be 
pending  in  any  of  the  courts  of  the  Territory  of 
Minnesota,  at  the  time  of  the  change  from  a  terri- 
torial to  a  State  government,  may  be  continued 
and  transferred  to  any  court  of  the  State  which 
shall  have  jurisdiction  of  the  subject  matter 
thereof. 

"  Sec.  5.  All  officers,  civil  and  military,  now 
holding  their  offices  under  the  authority  of  the 
United  States,  or  of  the  Territory  of  Minnesota, 
shall  continue  to  hold  and  exercise  their  respec- 
tive offices  until  superceded  by  the  authority  of  the 
State. 

"  Sec.  6.  The  first  session  of  the  Legislature 
of  the  State  of  Minnesota  shall  commence  on  tlie 
second  Tuesday  of  January,  1S58,  and  shall  be 
held  at  the  Capital  in  the  city  of  St.  Paul,  at  which 
time  and  place  the  State  Election  Commissioner 
hereinafter  provided  for,  shall  attend  vrith  a  list  of 
the  members  elect  in  each  house ;  and  after  read- 
ing said  list  to  the  members  assembled,  shall  call 
them  to  order,  and  act  as  presiding  officer,  until 
a  temporary  organization  shall  be  effijcted  in  each 
branch.  The  said  State  Election  Commissioner 
shall  likewise  communicate  to  the  Legislature,  a 
list  of  all  the  State  and  Judicial  officers  elected, 
with  an  abstract  of  the  votes  cast  for  each,  and  on 
the  day  subsequent  to  the  permanent  organization 
of  the  Legislature,  by  the  election  of  permanent 
officers  thereof,  the  State  and  Judicial  officers 
elect,  shall  appear  in  the  Hall  of  the  House  of 
Representatives,  and  in  presence  of  both  branches 
of  the  Legislature  in  Convention  assembled,  shall 
be  publicly  sworn  into  office,  and  shall  thereafter 
assume  and  perform  all  the  duties  of  their  several 
offices  as  enjoined  upon  them  by  the  provisions  of 
his  Constitution. 

"  Sec.  7.  All  county,  precinct  and  township 
officers,  shall  continue  to  hold  their  respective  of- 
fices unless  removed  by  the  competent  authority, 
until  the  Legislature  shall  provide  by  law  for  filling 
such  offices  respectively,  in  conformity  with  the 
provisions  of  this  Constitution. 

"Sec.  8.  The  President  of  this  Convention 
shall  immediately  after  its  adjournment  cause  a 
fair  copy  of  this  Constitution,  to  be  forwarded  to 
the  President  of  the  United  States,  to  be  laid  be- 
fore the  Congress  of  the  United  States  at  its  next 
session. 

"Sec.  9.  This  Constitution  shall  be  snbmitted  to 
the  people  for  their  ratiflcatio  n  or  rejection,  at  an 
election  to  be  held  on  the  second  Tuesday  of  Octo- 
ber next,  in  the  duly  established  election  precinct* 
within  the  limits  of  the  proposed  State ;  and  all  per- 
sons who  have  resided  in  the  proposed  State  three 

64 


months,  and  are  otherwise  duly  qualified  to  vote, 

as  provided  in  the article  of  this  Constitution, 

shall  be  entitled  to  vote  for  and  against  the  adop- 
tion of  this  Donstitution,  and  for  all  officers  first 
elected  under  it.  And  if  the  Constitution  is  rati- 
fied by  the  said  electors,  or  a  majority  [thereof,  it 
shall  become  the  Constitution  of  the  State  of  Min- 
nesota. On  such  ballots  as  are  for  the  Constitu- 
tion, shall  be  written  or  printed  the  word  "Yes," 
and  on  such  as  are  against  the  Constitution,  the 
word  "  No."  The  election  shall  be  conducted  in 
all  respects,  and  vacancies  in  the  election  of  officers 
filled  in  the  manner  prescribed  by  law.  But  if, 
from  any  cause,  in  any  precinct,  at  the  time  speci- 
fied for  opening  the  polls,  the  usual  places  of 
holding  the  elections  cannot  be  used  for  that  pur- 
pose, then  the  officers  of  the  election  shall  adjourn 
to,  and  open  the  polls  forthwith  at  the  most  con- 
venient place  nearest  thereto ;  and  on  counting  the 
votes  cast  at  said  election,  the  judges  of  the  elec- 
tion shall  make  return  thereof  in  legal  form  to  the 
following  named  persons  who  are  hereby  appoin- 
ted county  election  commissioners  in  and  for  the 
several  counties  and  districts  for  which  they  are 
respectively  named,  to  receive  said  returns,  and  to 
perform  in  regard  thereto,  aU  the  duties  which  are 
now  by  law  required  to  be  performed  by  registers 
of  deeds,  as  commission  officers  in  the  several 
cotmties,  and  in  addition  to  the  returns  and  ab- 
stracts prescribed  by  law  to  be  made  by  the  said 
register,  the  county  election  commissioners  shall 
respectively  make  another  abstract  of  all  the  votes 
cast  in  their  respective  districts,  and  forward  the 
same  to  St.  A.  D.  Balcombe,  President  of  this 
Convention  at  the  city  of  St.  Paul. 

The  county  election  commissioner  for  Honston 
county  shall  be  James  A.  McCann. 

For  Mower  county,  Rufus  L.  Kimball. 

For  Olmsted  county,  Moses  W.  Fay. 

For  Freeborn  county,  W.  Andrews.  * 

For  Faribault  county,  J.  B.  Wakefield. 

For  Blue  Earth  county,  A.  D.  Seward. 

For  Wabashaw  county,  Abner  Tibbets. 

For  Goodhue  county,  J.  W.  Hancock. 

For  Dakota  county,  John  Kennedy. 

For  Scott  county,  Hamilton  Clarke. 

For  Steele  county,  H.  M.  Sheetz. 

For  Rice  county,  Isaac  Hammond. 

For  Winona  county,  C.  F.  Buck. 

For  Nicollet,  Brown,  Renville  and  Pierce  coun- 
ties, Henry  A.  Swift. 

For  Le  Seur  county,  Jud  Joneg. 

For  Carver  county,  T.  D.  Smith. 

For  McLeod  eounty,  W.  S.  Chapman. 

For  Meeker  county,  Thomas  H.  Skinner. 

For  Sibley  county,  James  C.  Pratt 

For  Dodge  county,  Isaac  Turtlott. 

For  Waseca  county,  J.  W.  Crawford. 

For  Fillmore  county,  S.  B.  Murrell. 

For  Wright  county,  J.  F.  Bradley. 

For  Steams,  Todd  and  Pembina,  C.  T.  Steams. 

For  Anoka  and  Manomin,  Jared  Benson. 


506 


MINNESOTxY  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Monday,  August  17. 


For  Isanti  county,  Joseph  H.  Canny. 

For  Hennepin  county,  C.  G.  Ames. 

For  Sherburne  county. 

For  Benton  county. 

For  Morrison,  Crow  Wing  and  Cass  counties, 
James  Fergus. 

For  St.  Louis,  Lake  and  Itasca,  E.  F.  Ely. 

For  Chisago  county,  Thomas  Lacy. 

For  Pine  county,  J.  G.  Randall. 

For  Washington  county,  Thomas  J.  Yorks 

For  Ramsey  county,  G.  W.  Moore. 

And  the  persons  aforenamed  are  hereby  declared 
to  be  the  election  commissioners,  respectively,  for 
the  several  counties  and  districts  specified,  and 
they  shall  continue  in  oflBce  and  act  as  canvassing 
oflacers,  in  place  of  the  register  of  deeds,  at  all 
elections  under  this  Constitution,  and  until  the 
final  admission  of  the  State  of  Minnesota  into  the 
Union  of  the  United  States,  unless  otherwise  pro- 
vided by  law  passed  in  pursuance  of  the  provisions 
of  this  Constitution.  The  President  of  this  Con- 
vention, St.  Andrew  D.  Balcombe,  is  hereby 
appointed  State  Election  Commissioner ;  and  he 
shall  perform  the  same  duties  in  regard  to  all 
elections  under  this  Constitution  as  are  now  re- 
quired by  law  to  be  performed  by  the  Secretary  of 
the  Territory ;  and  if  from  any  cause,  he  is  unable 
to  act,  he  may  designate  his  own  successor,  and 
he  shall  have  power  to  fill  all  vacancies  in  the 
county  election  commissioners,  that  may  occur  by 
death,  resignation  or  otherwise,  and  may  appoint 
others  in  place  of  those  county  commissioners, 
who  may  refuse  or  neglect  to  attend  to  th«  duties 
of  their  appointment.  And  in  the  event  of  the 
ratification  of  this  Constitution  by  a  majority  of 
the  people  voting  thereon,  the  State  Election  Com- 
missioner shall  make  public  proclamation  of  the 
same ;  whereupon,  an  election  shall  be  held  for 
Governor,  Lieutenant  Governor,  Treasurer,  Attor- 
ney General,  Auditor,  Superintendent  of  Public 
Instruction,  Members  of  the  State  Legislature,  and 
Members  of  Congress,  and  such  other  ofiicers 

whose  election  is  herein  provided  for,  on  the 

^gv  of and  no  further  notice  of  such 

election  shall  be  required. 

"  Sec.  10.  Until  there  shall  be  a  new  apportion- 
ment by  the  Legislature,  the  Members  of  the 
Senate  and  House  of  Representatives  shall  be  ap- 
portioned and  elected  in  districts  as  follows : 

In  the  first  district,  the  county  of  Houston  shall 
elect  four  representatives  tlnd  one  senator. 

In  the  second  district,  the  county  of  Fillmore 
shall  elect  four  representatives  and  two  sena- 
tors. 

In  the  third  district,  the  county  of  Mower  shall 
elect  two  representatives  and  one  senator. 

In  the  fourth  district,  the  county  of  Blue  Earth 
shall  elect  one  representative,  and  the  county  of 
Farribault  one  representative,  and  together  they 
shall  elect  one  senator. 

In  the  fifth  district,  the  county  of  Winona  shall 
elect  four  representatives,  and  the  county  of  Wa- 


bash aw  two  representatives,  and  together  they 
shall  elect  two  senators. 

In  the  sixth  district,  the  county  of  Olmsted 
shall  elect  four  representatives  and  one  senator. 

In  the  seventh  district,  the  county  of  Dodge  and 
the  county  of  Steele  shall  together  elect  three 
representatives  and  one  senator. 

In  the  eighth  district,  the  county  of  Waseca 
shall  elect  one  representative,  and  the  county  of 
Freeborn  shall  elect  one  representative,  and  to- 
gether they  shall  elect  one  senator. 

In  the  ninth  district,  the  county  of  Goodhue  shall 
elect  three  representatives  and  one  senator. 

In  the  tenth  district,  the  county  of  Dakota  shall 
elect  four  representatives,  and  the  county  of  Rice 
three  representatives,  and  together  they  shall  elect 
three  senators. 

In  the  eleventh  district,  the  county  of  Scott  shall 
elect  two  representatives  and  one  senator. 

In  the  twelfth  district,  the  county  of  Carver 
shall  elect  one  representative,  and  the  county  of 
McLeod  one  representative,  and  together  they 
shall  elect  one  senator. 

In  the  thirteenth  district,  the  county  of  Le  Sueur 
shall  elect  one  representative  and  the  county  of 
Nicollet  one  representative,  and  together  they 
shall  elect  one  senator. 

In  the  fourteenth  district,  the  county  of  Sibley 
shall  elect  one  representative,  and  the  counties  of 
Brown,  Renville  and  Pierce  one  representative, 
and  together  they  shall  elect  one  senator. 

In  the  fifteenth  district,  the  county  of  Hennepin 
shall  elect  six  representatives  and  two  senators. 

In  the  sixteenth  district,  the  counties  of  Wright 
and  Meeker  shall  elect  one  representative,  and  the 
counties  of  Sherburne,  Benton  and  Morrison  one 
representative,  and  together  they  shall  one  sena- 
tor. 

In  the  seventeenth  district,  the  counties  of  Stearns 
and  Todd  shall  elect  one  representative,  and  the 
counties  of  Cass,  Itasca,  Pembina,  St.  Louis  and 
Lake,  one  representative,  and  together  they  shall 
elect  one  senator. 

In  the  eighteenth  district,  the  counties  of  Chi- 
sago, Pine  and  Isanti,  shall  elect  two  representa- 
tives, and  the  counties  of  Anoka  and  Manomin  one 
representative,  and  together  they  shall  elect  one 
senator. 

In  the  nineteenth  district,  the  county  of  Wash- 
ington shall  elect  three  representatives  and  one 
senator. 

In  the  twentieth  district,  the  county  of  Ramsey 
shall  elect  five  representatives  and  two  senators. 

"Sec.  11.  The  several  elections  provided  for  by 
this  article,  shall  be  conducted  according  to  the  ex- 
isting laws,  except  as  is  otherwise  provided ;  and 
the  returns  of  the  election  for  all  officers  shall  be 
made  to  the  county  election  commissioners ;  and 
a  full  abstract  of  all  the  votes  cast  for  each  and 
every  officer  shall  be  made  to  the  State  election 
commissioner,  who  shall  make  public  proclamatiom 
of  the  aggregate  of  the  votes  for  each  office,  in 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Monday,  August  17. 


507 


every  district,  and  of  the  persons  in  each  district 
who  are  elected  to  the  several  offices  voted  for. 

"  Sec.  12.  Two  members  of  Congress  shall  also 
be  elected  on day  of ;  and  until  other- 
wise provided  by  law  the  counties  of  Houston, 
•Winona,  Wabashaw,  Olmsted,  Fillmore,  Mower, 
Goodhue,  Dodge,  Freeborn,  Faribault,  Brown, 
Pierce,  Renville,  Nicollet,  Blue  Earth,  Waseca 
and  Steele  counties,  shall  constitute  the  first  Con- 
gressional district,  and  elect  one  member  of  Con- 
gress ;  and  the  counties  of  Rice,  Le  Sueur,  Sibley, 
Scott,  Dakota,  Ramsey,  Hennepin,  Carver,  Mc- 
Leod,  Meeker,  Wright,  Washington,  Chisago, 
Pine,  Isanti,  Anoka,  Sherburne,  Stearns,  Benton, 
Morrison,  Crow  Wing,  Itasca,  Pembina,  St.  Louis 

and shall  constitute  the  second  Congressional 

district,  and  elect  one  member  of  Congress. 

"  Sec.  13.  The  following  shall  be  the  apportion- 
ment and  arrangement  of  the  judicial  districts  of 
the  State,  until  otherwise  provided  by  law : 

The  counties  of  Ramsey,  Dakota  and  Manomin 
shall  constitute  the  first  judicial  circuit. 

The  counties  of  Washington,  'Chisago,  Pine, 
Isanti,  Benton,  Stearns,  Morrison.  Todd,  Pembina, 
Cass,  Itasca,  Lake  and  St.  Louis  shall  constitute 
the  second  judicial  circuit. 

The  counties  of  Hennepin,  Carver,  McLeod,  Sib- 
ley, Meeker,  Wright,  Sherburne  and  Anoka  shall 
constitute  the  third  judicial  district. 

The  counties  of  Mower,  Dodge,  Blue  Earth,  Far- 
ibault, Freeborn,  Steele,  Waseca,  Brown,  Ren- 
ville and  Pierce  shall  constitute  the  fifth  judicial 
circuit. 

The  counties  of  Scott,  Le  Sueur,  Rice,  Goodhue, 
Wabashaw  and  Nicollet  shall  constitute  the  fourth 
judicial  circuit. 

The  counties  of  Winona,  Olmsted,  Fillmore  and 
Houston  shall  constitute  the  sixth  judicial  circuit. 

"  Sec.  14.  Each  judicial  circuit  shall  elect  one 
circuit  judge ;  and  the  first  and  second  circuits 
shall  together  compose  the  first  Supreme  Judicial 
district;  the  third  and  fourth  judicial  circuits  shall 
together  compose  the  second  Supreme  Judicial 
district,  and  the  fifth  and  sixth  judicial  circuits 
shall  together  compose  the  third  Supreme  Judicial 
district ;  and  in  each  Supreme  Judicial  district 
as  aforesaid,  one  Judge  of  the  Supreme  Court 
shall  be  elected." 

Mr.  FOSTER.  I  move  that  so  much  of 
the  rules  as  require  that  this  report  shall  be 
printed  before  it  is  considered,  be  suspended, 
and  that  we  now  proceed  to  its  consideration, 
Mr.  WILSON.  I  hope  that  course  will 
not  be  adopted.  It  is  an  important  report, 
and  I  should  like  to  have  it  laid  before  each 
member,  so  they  can  examine  it. 

Mr.  FOSTER.  I  have  no  desire  to  press 
my  motion,  if  it  is  objected  to.  I  supposed  it 
would  be  agreed  to  without  dissent.  I  with- 
draw the  motion. 


The  report  was  then  read  a  second  time, 
and  laid  upon  the  table  to  be  printed. 

And  then,  on  motion  of  Mr.  HUDSON,  the 
Convention  took  a  recess  until  half  past  two 
o'clock. 

AFTERNOON  SESSION. 

The  Convention  re-assembled  at  half  past 
two  o'clock. 

The  PRESIDENT  announced  that  the 
special  order  for  this  hour,  was  the  considera- 
tion of  the  report  of  the  committee  upon  Pub- 
lic Property,  the  pending  question  being  on 
the  amendment  offered  by  Mr.  Secojibe  to 
the  fourth  section. 

The  amendment  was  read  as  follows — 

"  Sec.  4.  The  proceeds  of  all  lands  set  apart 
and  reserved  by  and  under  the  act  of  Congress, 
approved  February  19, 1851,  for  the  use  and  sup- 
port of  the  University  in  the  Territory  of  Minne- 
sota, shall  be  a  perpetual  fund  to  be  called  "The 
University  Fund,"  which  shall  be  appropriated  to 
the  use  and  support  of  "The  University  of  Min- 
nesota;" and  the  location  of  the  said  University 
under  existing  laws  is  hereby  confirmed." 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  demand  the  yeas  and 
nays  upon  that  amendment.  The  yeas  and 
nays  were  ordered. 

Mr.  KING.  I  move  that  there  be  a  call  of 
the  Convention. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to,  and  the  roll 
being  called  the  following  members  failed  to 
answer  to  their  names — 

Messrs.  Aldbich,  Ayeb,  Bartholemew, 
Cederstam,  Dickebson,  Foster,  Lowe,  Mc- 
KuNE,  Messeb,  Putnam,  Smith  and  Thomp- 
son. I 

Pending  the  call,  it  was  stated  that  Messrs. 
Cedebstam,  Messeb,  Peckham  arid  Dicker- 
son  were  detained  from  the  Convention  by 
sickness,  and  that  Mr.  Thompson  was  out  of 
the  city. 

Mr.  HAYDEN  moved  that  all  further  pro- 
ceedings under  the  call  be  dispensed  with. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to. 

The  question  was  then  taken  by  ayes  and 
nays  on  the  amendment,  and  it  was  decided 
in  the  negative — ^yeas  seventeen,  nays  twenty- 
nine,  as  follows : 

Yeas — ^Messrs.  Bates,  Coombs,  Eschlie,  Folsom, 
Galbraith,  Hall,  Hayden,  Morgan,  Murphy,  North, 
Phelps,  Perkins,  Russell,  Secombe,  Smith,  Walker 
and  Mr.  President — 17. 

iVays— Messrs.  Anderson,  Baldwin,  Billings, 
BoUes,  Butler,  C  leghorn,  Colburn,  Coggswell,  Coe, 


508 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Monday,  August  17. 


Davis,  Dulej'',  Gerrish,  Harding,  Hudson,  Hanson, 
HoUey,  King,  Kemp,  Lyle,  Mantor,  McCann,  Mc- 
Clure,  Mills,  Feckham,  Bobbins,  Stannard, 
Vaughn,  Watson  and  Wilson — 29. 

So  the  amendment  was  not  agreeed  to. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  wish  to  offer  another 
substitute.  I  will  not  detain  the  Convention 
by  any  remarks  upon  it. 

The  amendment  was  jead  as  follows : 

"  Sec.  i.  The  proceeds  of  all  lands  granted  or 
set  apart  and  reserved  by  the  United  States  for  the 
use  and  support  of  a  University,  shall  be  a  perpet- 
ual fund,  to  be  called  the  "University  Fund," 
which  shall  be  appropriated  to  the  use  and  support 
of  the  University  of  Minnesota." 

Mr.  WILSON.  I  move  as  an  amendment 
to  the  substitute  that  the  original  section  as 
it  now  stands  amended,  be  stricken  out. 
That  will  leave  the  whole  matter  where  the 
Enabling  Act  leaves  it.  The  Enabling  Act  is 
specific  upon  that  point  and  we  have  accept- 
ed the  Enabling  Act. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  rise  lo  a  point  of  order. 
The  gentleman's  motion  is  not  in  order.  This 
is  offered  as  a  substitute  for  the  section,  and 
it  seems  to  me  that  an  amendment  to  that  sub- 
stitute to  strike  out  the  whole  section  would 
not  be  in  order.  However,  I  propose,  if  this 
substitute  does  not  pass,  to  make  that  motion 
myself,  but  I  prefer  to  have  a  vote  taken  upon 
the  substitute  first. 

Mr.  CLEGHORN.  I  do  not  think  that 
the  amendment  offered  by  the  gentleman  fi^om 
Hennepin  (Mr.  Secombe)  is  a  substitute  for 
the  section,  because  it  is  only  a  part  of  the 
original  section  itself.  It  is  word  for  word, 
like  the  first  part  of  the  section. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.     I  would  inquire  what 

will  be  the  effect  of  the  u.otion  of  the  gentle- 

.  man  from  Winona,  (Mr.  Wilson)?    It  seems 

to  me  that  we  are  mixing  up  matters  rather 

too  much. 

The  PRESIDENT.  The  Chair  is  of  opin- 
ion that  the  motion  of  the  gentleman  from 
Winona  is  not  strictly  in  order.  After  the 
question  is  put  upon  the  substitute,  that  mo- 
tion will  be  in  order. 

Mr.  MORGAN.  I  rise  to  remark  that  I 
much  prefer  striking  out  the  whole  section  to 
having  it  as  it  now  stands,  for  the  reason  that 
it  simply  recognizes  the  fact  that  a  University 
does  exist  in  the  Territory,  and  directs  that 
the  fund  appropriated  to  the  University  by 
the  United  States  shall  be  appropriated  to  that 


particular  purpose.     If  this  substitute  fails,  I 
shall  vote  for  striking  out  the  whole  section. 

Mr.  Bx\TES.  I  agree  with  my  colleague 
who  has  just  taken  his  seat.  I  prefer  that 
the  section  should  be  stricken  out,  rather  than . 
remain  as  it  is  now.  At  the  same  time,  I 
prefer  that  the  substitute  be  adopted,  and  I 
cannot  see  any  objection  any  gentleman  can 
have  to  it.  It  does  not  locate  the  University. 
It  leaves  it  simply  as  gentlemen  have  asked 
that  it  should  be  left. 

Mr.  WILSON.  I  do  not  wish  to  appeal 
from  the  decision  of  the  Chair  on  my  amend- 
ment or  motion,  but  I  certainly  differ  with 
him,  and  think  my  amendment  must  be  in 
order.  If  to  strike  out  is  not  an  amendment,  I 
do  not  know  what  an  amendment  is  under 
parliamentary  usage.  I  never  before  heard 
the  point  decided  in  that  way.  I  certainly 
think  the  chair  can  call  to  mind  many  similar 
cases  during  the  course  of  this  Convention. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  The  motion  is  not  to 
strike  out  anything  in  the  substitute. 

Mr.  WILSON.  It  certainly  is  an  amend- 
ment, whether  it  makes  the  matter  better  or 
worse. 

The  PRESIDENT.  The  Chair  is  perfectly 
willing  to  record  his  decision  upon  the  Jour- 
nal, and  the  gentleman  can  take  an  appeal  [if 
he  desires. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  The  motion  of  the 
getleman  from  Hennepin  is  to  strike  out  and 
insert.  I  call  for  a  division  of  the  question, 
first  upon  striking  out,  and  then  upon  insert- 
ing. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.     That  is  not  my  motion. 

The  PRESIDENT.  The  motion  is  not 
to  strike  out  and  insert,  but  to  substitute. 
There  is  a  difference  in  the  opinion  of  the 
Chair  between  the  two  motions. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  How  can  a  substitute 
be  put  in  the  place  of  that  section  without 
striking  out  f 

Mr.  ALDRICH.  This  is  a  substitute,  and 
if  adopted,  it  is  true  the  other  will  have  to 
be  stricken  out.  But  it  certainly  is  not  a 
motion  to  strike  out  and  insert.  If  it  is  ad- 
opted it  leaves  the  matter  about  as  the  gentle- 
man from  Winona  desires  to  put  it. 

The  PRESIDENT.  The  opinion  of  the 
Chair  is  that  a  motion  to  substitute  is  not 
divisible. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  Rule  thirty-nine  says :  "A 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Moxdat,  August  17. 


509 


I 


"  motion  to  strike  out  and  insert  shall  be  deemed 
"indivisible;  but  a  motion  to  strike  out  being 
"  lost,  shall  neither  preclude  amendment,  nor 
*'  a  motion  to  strike  out  and  insert." 

So  that  even  if  it  were  a  motion  to  strike 
out  and  insert,  it  would  be  indivisible. 

The  PRESIDENT.  The  Chair  has  deci- 
ded in  accordance  with  the  rule. 

Mr.  SECOMBE  called  for  the  yeas  and  nays 
upon  the  amendment. 

The  yeas  and  nays  were  ordered. 

Mr.  COGOSWELL  moved  a  call  of  the 
Convention. 

A  call  was  ordered,  and  the  roll  being  called 
the  following  members  failed  to  answer  to 
their  names : 

Messrs.  Baktholomew,  Cedebstam,  Davis, 
DicKERsox,  Foster,  Lowe,  McKu>t:,  Messeb, 
McBPHY  and  Pctxam. 

The  Sergeant-at-arms  was  directed  to  re- 
port the  absentees  in  their  seats. 

T.Ir.  MURPHY  moved  that  all  fm-ther  pro- 
ceedings imder  the  call  be  dispensed  with. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL  moved  to  lay  that  mo- 
tion upon  the  table. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  The  gentleman  from 
Steele  covmty  is  out  of  order  in  making  that 
motion. 

The  motion  made  by  Mr.  Mcbphy  was 
agreed  to,  and  all  further  proceedings  under 
the  call  were  dispensed  with. 

Mr.  ROBBINS.  Will  remarks  upon  this 
amendment  be  in  order  ? 

The  PRESIDENT.    They  wiU  be.      , 

Mr.  STANNARD.  I  rise  to  a  point  of  or- 
der. Debate  is  not  in  order  after  the  yeas 
and  nays  have  been  ordered.  The  yeas  and 
nays  have  been  ordered  upon  this  amend- 
ment. 

The  PRESIDENT.  The  Secretary  informs 
the  Chair  that  the  yeas  and  nays  have  been 
ordered,  such  being  the  fact,  debate  is  not  in 
allowable  except  by  general  consent. 

Mr.  SEC0:MBE.  I  hope  that  consent  will 
be  given  to  discuss  this  substitute.  I  de- 
manded the  yeas  and  nays  myself,  and  if  it 
is  in  order,  I  would  mthdrawthe  call.  (Cries 
of  "No,  No.") 

The  question  was  then  taken  and  it  was 
decided  in  the  negative — ^yeas  twenty-two, 
nays  twenty-eight,  as  follows : 

Yeas. — Messrs.  Aldrich,  Bates,  Coombs,  Eschlie, 
Foster,  Folsom,  Galbraith,  Hall,  Hayden,  Morgan, 


Mnrphy,  Xorth,  Phelps,  Perkins,  Rnssell,  Sheldon, 
Secombe,  Smith,  Vaugn,  Walker,  Winell  and  Mr. 
President— 22. 

H'ayg. — Messrs.  Anderson,  Baldwin,  Billings, 
Bolles,  Butler,  Cleghom,  Colbum,  Coggswell,  Coe, 
Davis,  Duley,  Gerrish,  Harding,  Hudson,  Hanson, 
Hollej,  King,  Kemp,  Lyle,  Mantor,  McCann,  Mc- 
Cluxe,  Mills,  Peckham,  Bobbins,  St^nnard,  Wat- 
son and  Wilson. — 23. 

So  the  substitute  was  not  adopted. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  now  move  that  section 
four  be  stricken  out. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to. 

The  report  as  amended  was  then  oidered  to 
be  engrossed  for  a  thu'd  reading. 

Mr.  HUDSON.  There  is  in  section  one  of 
this  report,  a — (cries  of  "order"  "order.") 
I  think  there  is  a  matter  of  importance  in  sec- 
tion one,  which  has  been  overlooked. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  would  inquire  if  the 
gentleman  sees  the  University  anywhere  in 
it  ?     (Laughter.) 

Mr.  HUDSON.  I  refer  to  no  local  matter. 
(Cries  of  "  Order.") 

Mr.  NORTH.  I  hope  we  have  courtesy 
enough  to  allow  the  gentleman  to  state  what 
he  desires.  It  may  be  a  matter  of  impor- 
tance to  the  Convention. 

The  PRESIDENT.  A  motion  to  that  ef- 
fect will  be  in  order. 

Mr.  NORTH.  I  move  that  the  gentleman 
have  leave  to  speak. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to. 

Mr.  HUDSON.     Section  one  is  as  follows : 

"The  State  shall  have  concurrent  jurisdiction 
on  the  Mississippi,  and  all  other  rivers  and  waters 
bordering  on  this  State,  so  far  as  the  same  shall 
form  a  common  boundary  to  this  State  and  any 
other  State  or  States,  now  or  hereafter  to  be  formed 
or  bounded  by  the  same ;  and  said  river  and  waters 
leading  into  the  same,  shall  be  common  highways, 
and  forever  free,  as  well  to  the  inhabitants  of  this 
State,  as  to  all  other  citizens  of  the  United  States, 
without  any  tax,  duty,  import  or  toll  therefor." 

A  motion  was  made  to  insert  the  word 
"  navigable"  before  the  word  "  waters," 
where  it  occurs  the  second  time.  I  was 
about  to  say  in  regard  to  that  matter,  that 
the  word  "river"  was  understood  by  the 
Convention  to  mean  the  Mississippi.  Now  I 
think  we  are  not  warranted  in  coming  to  that 
conclusion.  According  to  the  meaning  of 
this  section,  we  would  not  be  able  to  make  a 
dam  across  any  stream  leading  into  the  St. 
Croix,  or  into  the  Mississippi,  or  even  to 


510 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Monday,  August  17. 


buDd  a  bridge  over  it.  I  do  not  believe  that 
it  is  the  intention  of  the  Convention  so  to 
leave  the  matter.  If  gentlemen  think  it  is  all 
right,  I  am  satisfied.  (Cries  of  "Right!' 
"  Right ! ") 

Mr.  HARDING.  I  would  like  to  know, 
whether,  under  this  section,  we  could  put 
bridges  across  the  small  streams  that  run 
through  our  farms  ?  It  seems  to  me  that  we 
cannot. 

Mr.  NORTH.  I  would  inquire  in  what 
stage  of  its  progress  this  bill  is  ? 

The  PRESIDENT.  It  has  been  ordered 
to  be  engrossed  for  a  third  reading. 

Mr.  NORTH.  This  is  a  very  important 
matter,  and  ought  to  be  carefully  considered. 

Mr.  McCLURE.  It  was  discussed  at  the 
time  it  was  under  consideration,  and  it  was 
found  to  be  in  the  very  words  of  the  Enabling 
Act. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  would  state,  as  Chair- 
man of  the  committee  that  made  the  report, 
that  such  is  the  fact.  It  is  a  transcript  of  a 
section  of  the  Enabling  Act  upon  the  same 
subject.  The  matter  was  fully  considered  at 
the  time  the  section  was  under  consideration, 
and  it  was  deemed  by  the  Convention  not 
within  our  province  to  alter  the  act  of  Con- 
gress upon  this  subject.  Congress  may  have 
been  fools  in  passing  it,  but  it  is  not  the  busi- 
ness of  this  Convention  to  alter  it. 

Mr.  NORTH.  With  the  leave  of  the  Con- 
vention, I  will  state  why  I  deem  this  an  im- 
portant point.  Certain  individuals  residing 
upon  certain  streams  in  this  Territory,  which 
are  good  streams  for  mill  purposes,  but  not 
for  navigation,  have  at  times  attempted  by  an 
act  of  the  Legislature  to  declare  those  streams 
public  highways,  thereby  preventing  the  erec- 
tion of  dams  across  them  for  mill  purposes. 
By  putting  this  into  the  Constitution  we  give 
such  persons  additional  strength  in  making 
trouble  where  there  should  be  none.  It  ap- 
pears to  be  the  same  as  the  Enabling  Act, 
still  it  appears  to  me  better  not  to  put  it  into 
the  Constitution.  For  that  reason,  I  would 
move  to  strike  out  all  after  the  words, 
"  bounded  by  the  same."  It  will  then  sim- 
ply recognize  the  power  of  the  Legislature 
over  these  streams,  without  stating  anything 
further.  It  certainly  can  do  no  liarm  to  leave 
the  latter  part  of  the  section  out,  and  it  may 


be  of  considerable  benefit  to  the  people  of 
this  Territory. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  I  beUeve  a  motion  of 
that  character  would  not  be  in  order,  inas- 
much as  we  have  ordered  this  report  to  be 
engrossed  for  a  third  readmg. 

Mr.  NORTH.  Then  I  move  to  reconsider 
the  vote  by  which  it  was  so  ordered  to  be 
engrossed. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  I  hope  the  motion  to 
reconsider  will  not  prevail,  for  we  have  been 
very  careful  thus  far  not  to  violate  any  pro- 
vision of  the  Enabling  Act.  We  have  been 
remarkably  cautious,  and  as  we  have  adopted 
the  Enabling  Act,  and*  have  been  so  careful 
not  to  violate  its  provisions,-  it  seems  to  me 
that  it  is  rather  too  late  in  the  day  to  back 
out  of  that  position,  and  undertake  to  con- 
travene any  provision  of  that  act.  If  we 
have  made  fools  of  ourselves,  and  Congress 
made  fools  of  themselves,  I  propose  to 
stand  it. 

Mr.  MORGAN.  When  this  section  was 
under  discussion  before  the  Convention,  I 
made  a  motion  to  insert  "navigable"-  before 
"  waters."  That  was  voted  down,  upon  its 
being  stated  that  this  section  was  an  exact 
transcript  of  the  language  of  the  Enabling 
Act.  I  think  Congress  made  an  omission  in 
not  inserting  that  word,  and  if  it  is  a  fact  that 
Congress  did  make  such  an  omission,  I  do 
not  think  that  is  a  valid  reason  why  we 
should  make  a  like  omission.  It  seems  to  me 
that  the  proper  course  for  us  would  be  to  re- 
consider, and  then  make  this  alteration. 

Mr.  FOSTER.  I  hope  this  motion  will  be 
re-considered.  As  the  section  now  stands, 
we  are  debarred  from  making  any  improve- 
ments, on  every  mill  stream  that  leads  into 
the  St.  Croix  ;  and  indeed,  I  do  not  know  but 
the  provision  is  retro-active,  and  we  should 
have  to  remove  such  improvements  as  are  al- 
ready made. 

In  the  Wisconsin  Constitution  they  have  a 
provision  of  a  similar  character,  and  in  that 
the  word  "  navigable"  is  inserted.  It  cer- 
tainly can  do  no  harm  to  strike  out  the  latter 
part  of  the  section.  That  would  not  inter- 
fere with  the  Enabling  Act.  It  would  only 
be  silence  upon  the  subject. 

The  motion  to  re-consider  was  carried. 

Mr.  MORGAN,    I  now  move  to  insert  the 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Monday,  Acgust  1^ 


511 


word  "  navigable"  before  the  word  "  waters," 
in  the  fifth  line. 

Mr.  BILLINGS.  I  hope  the  gentleman 
will  include  in  his  motion  the  addition  of  the 
letter  "  s  "  to  the  word  "  river,"  in  the  same 
line.  I  think  it  is  very  clear  that  it  is  in- 
tended to  be  a  repetition  of  the  language  of 
the  second  line. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  think  the  amendment 
of  the  gentleman  from  Hennepin  county  may 
be  adopted  without  involving  us  in  any  diffi- 
culty, though  I  think  we  would  be  justified 
in  adopting  the  section  as  it  stands.  The  re- 
marks I  made  previously  were  more  in  justi- 
fication of  the  committee,  than  anything  else. 
Congress  have  said,  however,  that  the  Miss- 
issippi river  and  the  waters  leading  into  it, 
whether  navigable  or  otherwise,  shall  be  pub- 
lic highways.  We  need  not  necessarily  say 
that.  TVe  may  merely  say  that  navigable 
waters  shall  be  highways,  and  if  Congress  in- 
tended that  all  waters  shall  be,  they  will  be, 
whether  we  say  so  or  not.  So  it  seems  to  me 
that  it  would  not  be  a  violation  of  the  Ena- 
bling Act  to  say  "  navigable  waters."  We 
do  not  thereby  exclude  other  waters  from  be- 
ing highways. 

In  regard  to  the  word  "  river,"  to  which 
the  gentleman  from  Fillmore  (Mr.  Billings,) 
referred,  I  take  it  that  it  means  the  Mississip- 
pi river,  and  no  other.  "  The  said  river ;  " 
the  word  "said"  refers  to  some  particular 
river  which  has  been  previously  mentioned, 
and  that  particular  river  is  the  Mississippi 
river,  and  no  other.  There  is  a  reason  in 
that.  Here  are  two  provisions  made  ;  first, 
that  the  Mississippi  river  and  all  other  rivers 
bordering  upon  the  State  shall  be  under  the 
jurisdiction  of  this  State,  in  concurrence  with 
other  States.  The  other  is,  that  the  provis- 
ion of  the  ordinance  of  Congress,  imder  which 
the  Territory  was  originally  established,  shall 
be  carried  out ;  and  that  is,  that  the  Missis- 
sippi river  and  the  St.  Lawrence,  and  other 
rivers  running  into  the  same,  shall  be  public 
highways. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  The  orders  of  the 
General  Land  Office  to  the  surveyors  in  the 
new  Territories,  have  invariably  been,  to 
meander  the  navigable  streams,  and  where 
they  have  not  considered  streams  navigable, 
they  have  not  been  meandered.    I  am  willing 


to  leave  it  where  the  Enabling  Act  has  left  it. 
It  is  definite  enough.  I  am  disposed  to  pro- 
hibit the  Legislature  from  giving  exclusive 
rights  to  build  dams  across  any  streams 
which  may  be  navigated  unless  they  provide 
for  getting  around  them.  There  are  many 
streams  leading  into  the  St.  Croix  river, 
where  dams  have  already  been  built,  and 
individuals  owning  property  above,  have  no 
means  to  get  to  it,  except  by  following  along 
the  river.  Now  if  dams  have  been  built,  and 
the  navigation  obstructed  for  a  long  time,  I 
do  not  know  how  the  individuals  owning  pro- 
perty still  higher  up,  are  to  get  their  rights. 
I  think  we  had  better  leave  it  where  it  is. 

Mr.  NORTH.  I  think  the  difficulty  the 
gentleman  su^ests  is  usually|provided  for  by 
a  statutory  provision,  requiring  those  persons 
who  biuld  dams  to  provide  a  slide  for  the  pas- 
sage of  logs  and  lumber  down  those  streams. 
But  there  are  other  streams  in  the  Territory 
where  difficulty  has  been  attempted  to  be 
made,  and  persons  have  even  gone  so  &r  as 
to  say  that  dams  should  not  be  erected,  be- 
cause those  streams,  as  they  assert,  are  high- 
ways. In  reference  to  the  Cannon  river, 
which  was  never  known  to  be  navigable,  a 
bill  was  got  through  the  Legislature  one  win- 
ter declaring  that  to  be  a  public  highway, 
and  it  was  claimed  under  that  act,  that  no 
dam  could  be  erected.  A  half  a  dozen  dams 
or  more,  were  already  upon  that  stream.  It 
was  regarded  by  those  who  afterwards  saw 
the  bill,  but  did  not  detect  the  object  of  it  at 
the  time  of  its  passage,  as  a  mischievous  bill, 
and  designed  to  make  difficulty.  So  far  as 
we  were  concerned,  our  dams  were  built  be- 
fore the  passage  of  the  bill,  and  it  would  not 
have  acted  upon  us,  even  if  the  Legislature 
had  any  authority  in  the  case.  But  the  bill 
was  so  badly  framed,  that  it  failed  of  its  ob- 
ject, though  the  design  was  apparent. 

Knowing  the  disposition  of  certain  trouble- 
some pergons,  as  manifested  in  that  case,  I 
can  easily  conceive  how  others,  through  the 
Territory,  might  be  subjected  to  the  same  dif- 
ficulty, and  how  persons,  having  no  other  in- 
terest than  to  make  trouble,  could  easily  do 
so.  Upon  that  account,  it  seems  to  me  to  be 
best  to  amend  the  section  in  the  manner  pro- 
posed. Then  all  will  be  perfectly  safe  and 
secm^ — the  people  of  St.  Croix  as  well  as  all 
others. 


^12 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Monday,  August  17. 


Mr.  STANNARD  called  for  the  yeas  and 
nays  upon  the  amendment. 

The  yeas  and  nays  were  ordered,  and  the 
question  being  put,  it  was  decided  in  the  af- 
firmative— yeas  thirty-five,  nays  fifteen,  as 
follows : 

Teas. — Messrs.  Aldrich,  Anderson,  Baldwin, 
Bates,  Billings,  Butler,  Cleghorn,  Colburn,  Coe, 
Coombs,  Davis,  Duley,  Dickerson,  Eschlie,  Foster, 
Galbraith,  Hayden,  Harding,  Hudson,  Holley, 
Kemp,  Lyle,  McCann,  Morgan,  North,  Phelps, 
Perkins,  Eussell,  Sheldon,  Secombe,  Smith, 
Vaughn,  Winell,  Bolles,  and  Watson.— 35. 

Nays. — Messrs.  Coggswell,  Folsom,  Gerrish, 
Hall,  Hanson,  King,  McKune,  McClure,  Mills, 
Peckham,  Bobbins,  Stannard,  "Walker,  Wilson, 
and  the  President. — 15. 
So  the  amendment  was  adopted. 
Mr.  FOLSOM.  I  desire  to  offer  an  amend- 
ment. The  St.  Croix  river  is  considered  nav- 
igable as  far  as  the  Falls.  Then  there  are 
five  or  six  mile  of  rapids,  and  above  that  are 
sixty  or  seventy  miles  of  the  river  which  is 
navigable,  and  upon  which  boats  are  now  be- 
ing built.  I  think  it  would  be  better  to  strike 
out  the  words,  "  said  river  and  navigable  wa- 
"  ters  leading  into  the  same,"  and  that  would 
leave  our  navigation  forever  free.  I  think  if 
members  of  the  Convention  would  look  upon 
this  matter  in  its  true  light,  they  would  let  us 
have  the  rivers  forming  the  boundaries  of  our 
State  forever  free.  Companies  are  preparing 
to  build  boats,  and  if  we  put  in  the  word 
"navigable,"  it  will  cut  us  off  above  the 
Falls. 

Mr.  NORTH.  I  would  inquire  if  that  is 
not  the  case  now  ?  I  understand  that  the 
section  now  leaves  the  boundary  rivers  en- 
tirely free. 
Mr.  FOLSOM.  T  do  not  understand  it  so. 
Mr,  NORTH.  "  And  said  rivers  and  nav- 
"  igable  waters  leading  into  the  same  shall  be 
"forever  free."  I  think  that,  mthout  any 
alteration  makes  the  bovmdaries  free.  An 
amendment  was  suggested  to  add.the  letter 
"  s  "  to  the  word  "  river,"  and  I  suppose  it 
was  adopted  by  general  consent,  and  hence  I 
have  quoted  the  language  in  that  manner. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  do  not  understand,  as 
does  the  gentleman  who  has  just  taken  his 
seat,  that  there  is  any  connection  between  the 
first  and  second  parts  of  the  section.  I  un- 
derstand that  the  word  "  river "  does  not 
refer  to  the  "  rivers  and  waters  bordering 


on  this  State."  There  are  two  subjects  em- 
braced in  this  section.  One  is  that  the  State 
shall  have  concurrent  jurisdiction  upon  cer- 
tain waters.  What  are  they  ?  The  Missis- 
sippi river,  wherever  it  forms  the  boundary 
and  any  other  rivers  or  waters  that  form  boun- 
dary lines  between  this  and  other  States. 
That  subject  is  disposed  of  in  the  first  part  of 
the  section.  In  the  Enabling  Act,  there  is  a 
semi-colon  after  that  provision.  Then  we 
come  to  another  subject ;  we  come  to  that 
provision  of  the  Enabling  Act,  which  is  in 
accordance  with  the  ordinance  of  1787,  ma- 
king the  Mississippi  and  St.  Lawrence  rivers, 
and  all  rivers  running  into  them,  public  high- 
ways. It  was  a  part  of  the  original  compact 
between  the  granting  States  and  the  United 
States,  which  it  was  the  intention  of  Congress 
to  provide  for  carrying  out,  in  this  section. 
Then  the  "  said  river"  means  some  river  that 
has  been  mentioned  in  the  section — that  is  the 
Mississippi  river. 

Mr.  NORTH.  If  it  be  in  order,  I  move 
that  the  letter  "  s "  be  added  to  the  word 
"river,"  and  then  it  will  cover  the  object 
sought  by  the  gentleman  from  St.  Croix. 

Mr.  KING.  I  do  not  know  as  I  can  throw 
any  light  upon  this  subject. 

The  Enabling  Act  reads  as  follows : 

"  That  the  State  of  Minnesota  shall  have  concur- 
rent jurisdiction  on  the  Mississippi  and  all  other 
rivers  and  waters  bordering  on  the  said  State  of 
Minnesota,  so  far  as  the  same  shall  form  a  common 
boundary  to  said  State,  and  any  State  or  States 
now,  or  hereafter  to  be  formed  or  bounded  by  the 
same ;  and  said  river  and  waters  leading  into  the 
same,  shall  be  common  highways,  and  forever  free, 
as  well  to  the  inhabitants  of  said  State  as  to  all 
other  citizens  of  the  United  States,  without  any 
tax,  duty,  imposts,  or  toll  therefor. 

Now  if  we  call  the  "  said  river  "  the  Mis- 
sissippi, what  will  we  call  the  words  "  the 
same"?  I  think  it  is  a  mistake  of  the  printer, 
and  that  it  should  be  "the  said  rivers  and 
waters"  leading  into  the  same  Mississippi 
shall  be  common  highways,  and  forever,  free, 
&c. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  If  in  the  fiflh  line,  the 
word  "river  "  is  mistaken  for  "  rivers,"  then 
it  means  all  the  rivers  that  are  mentioned  in 
second  line,  and  that  includes  not  only  those 
wliich  are  navigable,  but  those  which  are  not 
navigable.  Now  we  cannot  suppose  that 
Congress  meant  to  declare  that  all  waters, 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Moxdat,  Acgcst  17. 


513 


bordering  upon  the  State,  though  navigable 
only  by  a  canoe,  should  be  common  highways. 
Hence,  if  the  word  ^"  river  "  in  the  fifth  line, 
means  the  same  waters  mentioned  in  the  sec- 
ond Une,  we  must  come  to  the  conclusion  that 
Congress  made  a  mistake  in  the  second  line, 
and  should  have  said  "  and  all  other  naviga- 
ble rivers  and  waters."  The  word  "  river," 
it  seems  to  me,  can  mean  no  other  than  the 
Mississippi  river,  because  if  it  means  all  the 
waters  before  mentioned,  it  necessarily  in- 
cludes all  rivers,  whether  navigable  or  not. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  I  differ  with  the  gen- 
tleman. I  consider  that  the  word  "  river  "  in 
the  fifth  line  has  reference  not  only  to  the  Mis- 
sissippi, but  to  all  other  rivers.  I  think  so 
from  this  feet,  that  it  could  not  have  been  the 
intention  of  Congress  to  exclude  the  Red 
River  of  the  North,  from  being  a  common 
highway,  so  far  as  it  forms  a  common  boun- 
dary. The  language  must  be  apphed  to  the 
Red  River  as  well  as  to  the  Mississippi.  By 
making  the  word  plural,  it  would  meet  the 
intention  of  Congress,  I  think. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  would  ask  the  gentle- 
man whether  the  words  in  the  second  line  are 
limited  to  navigable  rivers  ? 

Mr.  STAXS'ARD.  That  is  the  position  I 
took  before  the  Convention  a  short  time  ago. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  Then  I  would  inquire  if 
the  United  States  has  refused  to  give  us  con- 
current jurisdiction  upon  rivers  not  navigable, 
which  form  a  boundary  ? 

Mr.  STANNARD.  I  do  not  doubt  that 
the  State  would  have  concurrent  jurisdiction, 
according  to  the  first  clause  of  the  section ; 
but  by  using  the  term  "  river ''  in  the  second 
clause,  you  would  exclude  the  Red  River  from 
being  a  public  highway  so  &r  as  it  formed  a 
boundary. 

Mr.  PECKHAM.  I  think  this  matter  is 
becoming  more  and  more  involved,  and  I  move 
to  amend  by  striking  out  all  the  section  after 
the  word  "  same  "  in  the  fifth  line. 

Mr.  WILSON.  I  have  in  my  hands  the 
Statutes  of  Congress,  including  the  Enabling 
Act,  and  I  find  that  the  language  of  the  sec- 
tion as  reported  by  the  Committee,  and  the 
language  of  the  Enabling  Act  as  printed  for 
our  use,  do  not  conform  to  the  act  as  passed 
by  Congress.  It  should  read  "  and  the  said 
"  river  and  waters,  and  the  natigalle  icaten 
"  leading  into  the  same,  shall  be  common  high- 
65 


"  ways  and  forever  free,  &c."  This  solves 
the  whole  difficulty  in  which  we  have  been  in- 
volved. I  move  that  the  section  as  I  have 
read  it,  and  as  it  passed  Congress,  be  substi- 
tuted for  the  section  as  reported  by  the  Com- 
mittee, so  that  it  shall  read — 

Skc.  4.  The  State  shall  have  concurrent  juris- 
diction on  the  Mississippi,  and  all  other  rivers  and 
waters  bordering  on  this  State,  so  far  as  the  same 
shall  form  a  common  boundary  to  this  State  and 
anr  other  State  or  States,  now  or  hereafter  to  be 
formed  or  bounded  bv  the  same;  and  said  river  and 
waters,  and  the  navigable  waters  leading  into  the 
same,  shall  be  common  highways,  and  forever  free 
as  well  to  the  inhabitants  of  this  State  as  to  all 
other  citizens  of  the  United  States,  without  any 
tax,  duty,  imposts  or  toll  therefor. 

The  substitute  was  adopted. 
The  report  was  then  ordered  to  be  engross- 
ed for  a  third  reading. 

THE   LEGISLATIVE   DEPASTMEVT. 

Mr.  MAXTOR  moved  that  report  number 
eight,  upon  the  Legislative  Department  be  ta- 
ken up,  read  a  third  time,  and  put  upon  its 
passage. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to. 

The  report  was  accordingly  taken  up  and 
read  a  third  time. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  ask  tmanimous  consent 
to  insert  the  word  "  what "  before  the  word 
"courts"  so  that  it  shall  read — 

"  The  Legislature  shall  direct  by  law,  in  what 
manner,  and  in  what  courts,  suits  may  be  brought 
agUnst  the  State. 

The  amendment  was  agreed  to  by  unani- 
mous consent. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  There  is  in  section  four- 
teen a  provision  which  escaped  mv  atten- 
tion when  the  report  was  tmder  consideration 
in  the  committed  of  the  Whole,  which,  it 
seems  to  me  is  inequitable.     It  is  this : 

"  Xor  shall  the  compensation  of  any  public  offi- 
cer be  increased  during  his  term  of  office.'* 

It  would  prevent  the  salaries  of  Judges, 
who  are  elected  for  nine  years,  being  increased 
at  any  time  dining  that  term. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  We  had  considerable 
discussion  upon  that  provision  at  the  time 
the  report  was  imder  consideration. 

Mr.  SECOXLBE.  I  would  enquire  by 
what  method  a  change  of  that  provision  can 
be  reached  at  this  stage  of  the  report  ? 

The  PRESIDENT.  It  can  be  changed  by 
the  tmanimous  consent  of  the  Convention. 


5U 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Monday,  August  17. 


Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  ask  the  unanimous 
consent  of  the  Convention  to  strike  out  the 
words  "  increased  or." 

Several  members  objected. 

Mr.  WILSON.  I  think  the  section  is  well 
enough,  as  far  as  it  relates  to  those  oflBcers 
who  hold  only  one  or  two  years.  But  the 
Legislature  will  probably  be  inclined  to  give 
but  small  salaries,  when  our  State  Govern- 
ment first  goes  into  operation,  and  in  the  case 
of  oflBcers  holding  oflSce  nine  years,  we  shall 
find  that  this  will  work  a  hardship,  and  we 
shall  find  such  oflficers  resigning. 

Mr.  KING.  If  their  salaries  are  too  small, 
they  can  resign.  The  Legislature  would  then 
increase  the  salary,  and  good  oflficers  would 
then  be  re-elected. 

Mr.  MORGAN.  I  move  to  suspend  the 
rule  which  requires  unanimous  consent  to  be 
given. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  The  rules  cannot  be 
suspended  at  this  stage  of  the  report. 

Mr.  NORTH.  I  should  like  to  know  the 
reason. 

Mr.  WILSON.  I  would  like  to  know  at 
what  particular  point  the  rules  become  so 
strong  that  they  cannot  be  suspended. 

The  PRESIDENT.  The  Chair  is  of  the 
opinion  that  the  rules  can  be  suspended  by  a 
two-thirds  vote. 

Mr.  STANNARD.     By  what  rule  is  that  ? 

The  PRESIDENT.  By  a  rule  of  JeflTer- 
son's  Manual. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  I  doubt  whether  there 
is  any  such  rule  of  parliamentary  law. 

The  PRESIDENT.  There  is  no  rule  of 
the  Convention  in  regard  to  the  third  reading 
of  a  report.  • 

Mr.  STANNARD.  To  suspend  the  rule 
now,  would  violate  a  universal  rule  estab- 
lished in  all  legislative  bodies. 

Mr.  NORTH.  It  has  been  done  in  the 
Territorial  Legislature. 

The  PRESIDENT.  It  is  not  within  the 
recollection  of  the  Chair,  that  the  rules  have 
ever  been  suspended  on  the  third  reading  of 
abUl. 

Mr.  NORTH.  That  was  before  the  Chair 
had  any  participation  in  the  legislation  of  our 
Territory. 

Mr.  WILSON.  Rule  twenty-nbth  says, 
that^ 


"  No  rule  of  the  Convention  shall  be  suspended, 
altered  or  amended,  without  the  concurrence  of 
two-thirds  of  the  members  present." 

— And  rule  thirty-second  provides  that — 

"  The  rules  of  parliamentary  practice  comprised 
in  Jefferson's  Manual  shall  govern  the  Conven- 
tion in  all  cases  to  which  they  are  applicable,  and 
in  which  they  are  not  inconsistent  with  the  stand- 
ing rules  and  orders  of  this  Convention." 

— Now  by  rule  thirty-two,  we  adopt  the  rules 
of  Jeflferson's  Manual  as  part  of  our  rules  in 
certain  cases.  Rule  twenty-ninth  says  ex- 
pressly that  a  two-thirds  vote  may  suspend 
the  rules,  and  if  that  rule  does  not  apply  in 
this  case,  we  can  suspend  the  rules  by  a  mere 
majority  vote  according  to  the  Manual.  There 
is  no  rule  of  any  parliamentary  body  which 
may  not  be  suspended  by  a  majority  vote, 
unless  there  is  a  special  rule  of  the  body 
requiring  a  larger  vote. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  The  universal  rule  of 
all  legislative  bodies  is,  that  bills  shall  be 
subject  to  amendment  upon  their  first  and 
second  reading;  but  that  after  they  are 
ordered  to  a  tliird  reading,  they  shall  not  be 
amended,  except  by  the  unanimous  consent 
of  the  body. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  If  there  is  some  rule 
which  has  been  adopted  and  acted  upon  uni- 
versally, which  prevents  an  amendment  on  a 
third  reading,  the  object  of  that  motion  is  to 
dispense  with  that  rule,  and  if  there  is  any 
objection  which  can  be  made  to  making  an 
amendment  at  this  time,  it  is  because  it  is  in 
opposition  to  some  rule,  which  we  desire  to 
suspend  by  this  motion.  It  is  a  singular 
state  of  aflTairs,  if  this  Convention  is  bound 
down  in  such  a  way  that  it  would  require 
unanimous  consent  for  them,  at  this  stage  of 
proceeding,  or  any  other  stage  of  proceeding, 
to  correct  their  errors  and  mistakes. 

Mr.  HARDING.  I  would  inquire  if  there 
is  any  standing  rule  of  this  Convention  which 
applies  to  this  case  ? 

The  PRESIDENT.  There  is  no  special 
rule  of  the  Convention  which  applies  to  the 
third  reading  of  reports,  but  there  is  a  rule 
which  adopts  Jefferson's  Manual  as  a  guide, 
where  there  are  no  special  rules. 

Mr.  HARDING.  Then  it  seems  to  me 
that  there  is  no  chance  for  us,  by  a  two- 
third  vote,  or  any  other  vote,  to  suspend  that 
rule. 

Mr.  NORTH.    For  the  life  of  me  I  cannot 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Monday,  Acgcst  17. 


515 


see  the  nice  point  which  is  made  in  this  case. 
After  we  have  adopted  Jefferson's  Manual  as 
a  system  of  rules  for  the  action  of  this  body, 
I  cannot  see  why  they  are  not  under  the 
control  of  this  body,  just  as  much  as  the 
rules  which  we  have  adopted  specifically.  So 
far  as  our  own  action  is  concerned,  the  rules 
of  Jefferson's  Manual  are  just  as  much  under 
our  control  as  rules,  as  those  rules  we  have 
specifically  framed,  for  they  are  made  a  part 
of  our  rules.  The  twenty-ninth  rule  says  no 
rule  of  this  Convention  shall  be  altered  or 
suspended  without  the  concurrence  of  two- 
thirds  of  the'  members  present. 

It  does  not  say  only  the  standing  rules  of 
this  body  shall  be  so  altered  or  suspended. 
The  thirty-second  rule  provides  that  all  rules 
of  Parlimentary  practice  comprised  in  Jeffer- 
son's Manual  shall  govern  the  Convention  in  aU 
cases  to  which  they  are  applicable,  in  which 
they  are  not  inconsistent  with  the  standing 
rules  and  orders  of  this  Convention,  without 
referring  to  those  rules  which  are  framed  es- 
pecially for  the  Convention.  Now  the  twenty- 
ninth  rule,  which  says  that  no  rule  of  this 
Convention  shall  be  suspended,  &c.,  evidently 
would  cover  both  the  rules  which  are  laid  down 
in  Jefferson's  Manual  and  our  standing  rules. 
It  seems  to  me  as  plain  as  can  be,  that  all 
the  rules  come  under  the  same  control  of  this 
Convention,  and  one  can  be  suspended  as 
much  as  another. 

Mr.  CLEGHORN.  On  page  sixty-one  of 
Jefferson's  Manual,  I  find  the  following : 

"  The  Senate  of  the  United  States  was  so  much 
in  the  habit  of  making  material  amendments  at 
the  third  reading,  that  it  has  become  a  practice 
not  to  engross  a  bill  untU  it  has  passed." 

Showing  that  a  bill  can  be  amended  upon 
its  third  reading. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  But  this  report  has 
been  engrossed. 

Mr.  BILLINGS.  I  hope  the  vote  vrill  be 
taken  upon  the  motion  to  suspend  all  rules. 
I  have  no  doubt  that  we  have  the  power  to 
suspend  any  rule  of  this  body  at  any  time. 

The  PRESIDENT.  The  chair  is  still  of 
opinion  that  the  rule  can  be  suspended  by  a 
two-thirds  vote,  though  strongly  impressed 
that  it  is  not  customary.  It  is  something 
which  the  chair  does  not  remember  to  have 
seen  done  during  his  legislative  experience. 
It  is  the  right  of  any  gentleman  to  take  an 
appeal  from  the  decision  of  the  chair. 


Mr.  STANNARD.  I  think  anything  is 
possible  in  this  Convention  ;  but,  sir,  for  the 
credit  of  our  journal  I  hope  this  wiU  not  be 
done.  I  would  prefer  almost  any  other 
course  to  be  taken.  If  possible,  I  would  re- 
consider the  vote  by  which  the  report  was  or- 
dered to  be  engrossed,  or  ordered  to  a  third 
reading — anything  which  would  come  within 
the  range  of  parliamentary  practice,  because  I 
do  not  believe  there  is  any  precedent  for  the 
proposed  course  either  in  the  journals  of  the 
Congress  of  the  United  States  or  of  any  other 
parliamentary  body. 

Mr.  NORTH.  I  hope  for  the  credit  of  this 
Convention,  that  we  have  no  laws  which,  like 
the  laws  of  the  Medes  and  Persians,  can 
never  be  revoked.  I  hope  the  motion  will 
prevail,  if  for  no  other  reason,  to  show  thai 
we  have  no  rules  but  what  we  can  revoke. 

Mr.  HAYDEN.  I  believe  this  is  a  univer- 
sal rule  for  the  purpose  of  cutting  off  amend- 
ments. There  is  a  time  when  amendments 
should  stop,  and  if  there  is  no  such  time,  we 
shall  never  know  when  we  have  finished  om* 
business.  I  know  of  no  precedent  for  this 
kind  of  action.  I  agree  with  my  fide^id  from 
Chisago,  that  it  would  be  better  to  reconsider 
our  former  votes  and  get  back  where  we  can 
make  amendments  in  a  parliamentary  man- 
ner. 

Mr.  NORTH.  But  according  to  our  rule, 
retracing  our  steps  must  be  done  within  a 
certain  time,  and  that  time  has  expired.  I 
do  not  see  how  we  can  get  at  the  amendment 
of  an  error  or  oversight  without  suspending 
some  rule. 

Mr.  HAYDEN.  If  a  mere  error  has  been 
committed,  that  can  be  remedied  by  unani- 
mous consent ;  but  this  is  in  reference  to  an 
amendment  upon  which  there  is  a  difference 
of  opinion. 

Mr.  NORTH.  Suppose  an  error  has  been 
intentionally  committed  ?  There  have  been 
such  cases. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  I  would  simply  re- 
mark that  aU  these  reports  have  yet  to  be 
referred  to  one  committee — the  committee 
upon  Phraseology  and  Arrangement.  And  if 
that  committee  do  their  duty,  they  will 
recommend  some  material  amendments. 

Mr.  STANNARD  demanded  the  yeas  and 
nays  upon  the  motion  to  suspend  the  rules. 

The  yeas  and  nays  were  ordered,  and  the 


516 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Monday,  August  17. 


question  being  taken,  there  were  yeas  sixteen, 
nays  thirty -ona,  as  follows: 

Yeas — Messrs.  Anderson,  Baldwin,  Colburn, 
Foster,  Galbraith,  Hudson,  McCann,  McUlure, 
Morgan,  North,  Perkins,  Russell,  Secombe,  Smith, 
Vaughn,  Wilson — 16. 

li^ays. — Messrs.  Aldrich,  Billings,  BoUes,  Butler, 
Cleghorn,  Cogswell,  Coe,  Coombs,  Davis,  Duley, 
Dickerson,  Eschlie,  Folsom,  Grerrish,  Hall,  Hay- 
den,  Harding,  Hanson,  Holly,  King,  Lyle,  Mantor, 
McKune,  Murphy,  Phelps,  Peckham,  Bobbins, 
Stannard,  Winell,  Watson  and  Mr.  President — 31. 

'     So  the  rvUes  were  not  suspended. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  I  now  move  that  the 
report  be  recommitted  to  the  Committee  of 
the  Whole,  to  take  into  consideration  this 
fourteenth  section. 

Mr.  ALDRICH.  Cannot  this  be  amended 
by  unanimous  consent,  without  going  through 
all  that  formality. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  I  hope  the  gentleman 
who  made  objection  will  look  at  the  inconsist- 
ency of  leaving  this  section  as  it  is.  We  have 
in  another  report  a  provision  which  conflicts 
directly  with  this,  and  one  or  the  other  must 
be  wrong. 

Mr.  ALDRICH.  I  hope  the  gentleman 
will  withdraw  his  objection. 

Mr.  HARDING.  I  was  the  one  to  make 
the  first  objection,  I  believe.  At  the  time  the 
term  of  office  for  judges  was  fixed,  it  will  be 
recollected  that  I  submitted  an  amendment 
to  reduce  the  term  of  office,  as  I  was  opposed 
to  any  one  holding  office  nine  years.  That  is 
the  reason  why  I  made  the  objection.  But  I 
see  another  difficulty  which  I  did  not  see  at 
that  time.  I  will,  however,  withdraw  my  ob- 
jection. 

Mr.  COGSWELL.    With  what  report  does 

this  section  conflict  ? 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  With  the  report  upon 
the  Judiciary. 

Mr.  COGGS  WELL.    What  does  that  say  ? 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  That  their  salaries 
shall  not  be  diminished  during  their  term  of 
office. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  They  do  not  conflict 
then.  This  adds  a  further  provision  that 
they  shall  not  be  increased. 

The  question  was  then  taken  upon  the 
motion  to  recommit  the  report  to  the  Com- 
mittee of  the  Whole,  and  it  was  carried. 

On  motion  of  Mr.  ALDRICH,  the  Conven- 
tion then  resolved  itself  into  committee  of 


the  Whole,  Mr.  Stannabd  in  the  Chair,  and 
took  up  the  consideration  of  the  report  (num- 
ber eight)  from  the  committee  on  the  Legis- 
lative Department. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  Mr.  Chaibman:  I  move 
that  section  fourteen  of  the  Report  be  now 
considered  by  the  committee. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to. 

The  CHAIRMAN  read  the  section  as  fol- 
lows: 

"Sec.  14.  No  member  of  the  Legislature  or 
other  State  oflacer  shall  be  interested  either  di- 
rectly or  indirectly  in  any  contract  authorized 
by  the  Legislature  during  his  term  of  oflBce,  nor 
shall  the  Legislature  grant  any  extra  compensa- 
tion to  any  public  officer,  agent,  servant  or  con- 
tractor after  the  services  shall  have  been  rendered 
or  the  contract  entered  into.  Nor  shall  the  com- 
pensation of  any  public  officer  be  increased  or 
diminished  during  his  term  of  office." 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  Mr.  Chairman  :  I  move 
to  strike  out  from  the  seventh  line  of  section 
fourteen,  the  words  "  increased  or." 

Mr.  COLBURN.  Mr.  Chairman  :  I  am  op- 
posed to  this  amendment.  I  am  in  favor  of 
allowing  the  salaries  of  the  Judges  of  the  Su- 
preme and  Circuit  Courts  to  be  increased,  if 
thought  necessary  for  the  reason  that  they 
hold  for  so  long  a  term ;  but  I  am  opposed  to 
striking  out  these  words,  so  as  to  allow  and 
extend  to  all  other  officers  of  the  State  with 
them  the  same  advantage — members  of  the 
Legislature  and  others  who  hold  only  two 
years.  I  should  prefer  to  put  in  an  exception, 
and  allow  the  rule  to  remain — make  the  Judges 
an  exception  to  the  rule. 

Mr.  FOSTER.  Mr.  Chairman  :  I  would 
suggest  a  difficulty.  It  is  in  cases  where  no 
compensation  is  provided  for  the  officer. 

What  are  you  going  to  do  in  regard  to  thoSe 
officers  to  be  elected  before  the  salaries  can 
be  fixed  ?  According  to  this  section,  if  they 
get  nothing  when  they  start  ofl*,  they  get 
nothing  during  their  term. 

Mr.  FOLSOM.  Mr.  Chairman  :  I  am  op- 
posed to  the  amendment  for  this  reason — we 
have  heard  a  great  deal  about  the  corruption 
of  office-holders ;  and  this  proposition,  it  seems 
to  me,  is  just  letting  down  the  bars  of  cor- 
ruption to  every  office-holder  in  the  State. 

Mr.  WILSON.  Mr.  Chairman  :  I  like  that 
last  speech,  and  I  think  I  shall  now  change 
my  vote. 

The  amendment  was  rejected. 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— MoifDAT,  August  17. 


517 


Mr.  CLEGHORN.  Mr.  Chaikjian  :  I  pro- 
pose to  amend  the  fourteenth  section,  by  in- 
serting after  the  word  "  oflBcer,''  inthe  seventh 
line,  these  words :  "  except  the  Judges  of  the 
"  Supreme  and  Circuit  Courts." 

The  amendment  was  adopted. 

Mr.  PECKHAM.  Mr.  Chairmax  :  I  would 
like  to  hear  the  section  read,  as  amended. 

The  CHAIRMAN,  accordingly,  read  the 
section. 

Mr.  PECKHAM.  It  seems  to  me  this 
amendment  contradicts  a  section  in  the  ar- 
ticle on  the  Judiciary,  which  we  have  adop- 
ted, and  which  says,  the  Judges'  salary  shall 
not  be  diminished  during  his  term  of  office. 

Mr.  HUDSON.  Mr.  Chaikxax  :  if  in  or- 
der, I  would  like  to  call  the  attention  of  the 
committee  to  section  thirfy-one,  which  reads 
as  follows : 

"Sec.  31.  The  Legislature  may  submit  to  the 
people  any  Act  for  their  ratification  or  rejection, 
and  such  Act  so  submitted  shall,  if  approved  by  a 
majority  of  the  voters  voting  at  the  appointed 
election  become  a  law." 

It  seems  to  me,  Mr.  Chaibmax,  that,  after 
the  word  "  voting,"  here,  we  ought  to  have 
inserted  the  words  "  for  or  against  such  act." 

Now  sir,  we  might  have  some  matter  sub- 
mitted which  would  not  call  out  an  expression 
from  all  the  voters  in  the  State,  and  so  there 
might  be  a  good  law  defeated ;  for  this  ex- 
pressly says,  it  must  be  approved  by  a  ma- 
jority of  the  voters  voting  at  the  election.  I 
think  we  ought  to  have  the  words  *'  for  or 
against  such  act"  in  here. 

Mr.  KING.  Mr.  Chairman  :  that  same 
proposition  has  been  offered  heretofore,  and 
voted  down. 

The  CHAIRMAN.  Does  the  gentleman 
•  insist  on  his  motion  ? 

Mr.  HUDSON.  I  would  make  the  motion, 
if  in  order,  to  insert  the  words  "  for  or  against 
said  act"  after  the  word  "  voting." 

Mr.  HAYDEN.  Mr.  Chaibmas  :  I  rise  to 
a  question  of  order.  Was  not  this  bill  re- 
ferred tathe  committee  of  the  Whole,  for  the 
express  piupose  of  making  the  amendment 
to  section  fourteen  ?  And  is  it  in  order  to 
proceed  to  make  other  amendments  ?  I  read 
from  Jefferson's  Manual,  page  eighty-five. 

"A  bill  on  the  third  reading,  is  not  to  be  com- 
mitted for  the  matter  or  body  thereof,  but  to  re- 
ceive some  particular  clause  or  provi^ ;  it  hath 


been  sometimes  suffered,  but  is  a  thing  very  on- 
usual." 

The  CHAIRMAN.  The  Chair  so  under- 
stands it. 

Mr.  HARDING.  Mr.  Chaibmas  :  I  move 
the  committee  rise. 

Mr.  BILLINGS.  Mr.  Chaibmax,  I  hope 
that  motion  wiU  not  prevail  now.  If  we  look 
again  at  section  fourteen,  I  think  we  shall  see 
it  still  requires  amendment.  I  believe  a  little 
care — a  little  more  thought  on  this  subject, 
to  be  essential  to  our  judicious  action.  I  res- 
pectfully submit  to  the  committee  this  laur 
guage:  "  Nor  shall  the  compensation  of  any 
"  public  officer  be  increased  or  diminished 
"  dining  his  term  of  office."  Now,  if  you 
can  neither  increase  nor  diminish  the  salary, 
what  can  you  do  ?  Can  you  do  anything  ? 
"We  are  to  start,  sir,  with  a  set  of  officers  to 
be  elected  next  fall,  before  the  Legislature 
meets,  having  no  fixed  salaries.  Now,  if  you 
can,  tell  me  what  is  to  be  done  in  these 
cases? 

A  VOICE.     "Work  for  nothing. 

Mr.  BILLINGS.  That  is  true.  But  do 
we  intend  to  prescribe  that  ?  All  the  State 
officers  are  to  be  elected  before  the  Legisla- 
ture can  meet  to  fix  their  salaries  ;  and  we  here 
say,  they  shall  neither  be  increased  nor  di- 
minished.   Now  what  will  they  do. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  Mr.  Chaibmax  :  It  seems 
to  me  that  the  construction  of  my  colleague 
is  a  forced  one.  It  seems  to  me  that  estab- 
lishing a  salary  is  not  increasing  it,  or  dimin- 
ishing it.  These  terms  have  no  such  close 
relation.  The  Legislature  may  establish  the 
salary  of  an  officer,  but  then  afterwards,  it 
shall  neither  increase  nor  diminish  it 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  Mr.  Chaibmax  :  I  second 
the  motion,  that  the  committee  rise,  report, 
and  recommend  the  adoption  of  the  amend- 
ments. 

Mr.  NORTH.  Mr.  Chaibmas  :  will  the 
gentleman  withdraw  that  ?  I  desire  to  move 
to  amend  the  thirty-first  section,  by  adding 
the  word  "  thereon  "  after  the  word  "  voting," 
in  the  third  line.  It  Avill  make  it  better — 
much  more  definite. 

The  amendment  was  agreed  to. 

The  motion,  that  the  committee  rise,  was 
now  renewed  and  agreed  to ;  and,  according- 
ly, the  committee  rose  and  the  Chairman  re- 
ported the  amendments,  with  a  recommenda- 
tion that  the  Convention  conciu:  therein. 


518 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Tuesday,  Algust  18. 


The  amendments  reported  were  both  con- 
curred in ;  and  then — 

On  motion  of  Mr.  ALDRICH,  the  rules 
were  suspended  so  as  to  allow  the  report,  as 
amended,  to  be  considered  on  its  third  read- 
ing at  this  time ;  and  being  read  the  third 
time,  by  its  title,  it  was  passed. 

SEAL  AND  COAT.  OF  ABMS. 

Mr.  KING. .  Mr.  President  :  I  move  to 
take  up  number  seventeen — the  report  of  the 
committee  of  the  Seal  and  Coat  of  Arms — to 
be  considered  on  its  third  reading. 

"  The  motion  was  agreed  to,  and  the  report 
was  taken  up  and  read  through  by  the  Secre- 
tary. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  Mr.  Pkesident  :  I  would 
inquire  whether  it  is  the  intention,  that  this 
report  shall  be  incorporated  into  the  Constitu- 
tion ?  If  it  is,  it  seems  to  me,  that  it  is  not 
in  proper  shape. 

The  PRESIDENT.  It  is  the  opinion  of 
the  Chair,  that  the  report  is^  not  to  be  a  part 
of  the  Constitution, 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  would  inquire,  then, 
how  information  is  to  be  given  to  the  world, 
that  this  is  the  State  Seal  ? 

Mr.  NORTH.  Mr.  President  :  it  seems  to 
me  this  report  will  go  upon  the  record  as  part 
of  the  proceedings  of  this  Convention ;  and 
if  we  adopt  this  seal,  it  will  become  the  seal 
of  State.  The  report  will  not  appear  in  the 
Constitution  any  more  than  such  a  report  ap- 
pears in  the  Constitution  of  any  other  State 
where  they  have  a  seal ;  but  it  will  show  in 
our  proceedings  what  the  seal  is.  If  we 
adopt  what  this  describes  for  the  seal,  this 
goes  upon  the  record  as  descriptive  of  it. 

Mr.  BILLINGS.  Mr.  President  :  I  hope 
this  report  is  not  to  become  a  part  of  the 
Constitution  ;  for  although  I  signed  it,  it 
seems  to  me  to  require  the  correction  of  va- 
rious errors.  If  there  is  no  objection,  I 
would  like  to  have  the  words,  "  devolved 
upon,"  stricken  out  of  the  second  line  of  the 
report,  so  that  it  would  read :  "  Your  com- 
"  mittce  would  report,  that  they  have  taken 
"the  subject  into  consideration,  &c."  It 
would  be  better  language  without  these 
words.  There  is  another  discrepancy  in  the 
twenty-second  line,  ■  The  sentence  is :  "  In 
"another,  is  a  view  of  a  river,  (which  may  be 
"  supposed  to  be  the  Minnesota,)  running  to 
*'  the  westward,  with  a  steamboat  ascefiding 


the  stream."  Now,  the  Minnesota  river  runs 
eastward  ;  and  the  steamboat  represented  as 
going  up  the  river,  according  to  this  descrip- 
tion, would  be  descending  the  river,  for  the 
Minnesota  does  not  run  westward.  It  has 
been  also  suggested  to  nie  by  several  gentle- 
men, (and  I  like  the  suggestion,)  that,  instead 
of  a  steamboat  ascending  the  Minnesota,  it 
would  be  much  more  natural  and  to  the  life, 
to  have  a  canoe — on  one  side,  an  Indian  with 
a  canoe,  and  on  the  other,  civilization  and  a 
sail.  If  this  report  is  not  to  be  subjected  to 
the  strict  rules  which  govern  reports  on  their 
third  reading,  I  would  like  to  have  these 
amendments  made. 

Mr.  BOLLES.  Mr.  Chairman:  I  would 
move,  if  this  is  to  go  upon  the  record,  that 
the  bill  be  recommitted  to  the  Standing  Com- 
mittee, and  that  they  be  instructed  to  incor- 
porate into  the  report  a  simple  description  of 
the  seal,  without  going  much  into  detail.  It 
has  before  occurred  to  me,  that  this  is  not  ex- 
actly such  a  thing  as  we  would  like  to  see 
upon  our  record.  I  think  it  would  be  much 
better,  as  a  simple  declaration  of  what  the 
seal  shall  be,  without  the  circumstances  con- 
nected with  it. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  Mr.  President:  I  like 
the  suggestion  of  the  gentleman  from  Rice 
county,  and  was  about  to  make  the  same  mo- 
tion— that  this  matter  be  recommitted  to  the 
Standing  Committee,  with  instructions  to 
draft  an  article  to  be  inserted  in  the  Consti- 
tution, prescribing  what  the  seal  shall  be,  so 
that  the  Constitution  shall  show  what  the 
seal  is. 

Mr.  NORTH.  Mr.  President  :  there  are 
many  reasons  why  this  report,  descriptive  of 
the  design  of  the  seal,  should  be  preserved  in 
its  present,  or  in  a  corrected  form.  It  should 
be  presei'ved  to  illustrate  and  give  meaning  to 
the  design.  If  there  should  be  nothing  but 
the  engraving,  without  the  particular  descrip- 
tion given,  no  person  could  form  so  perfect  an 
idea  of  the  design  as  might  be  obtained  from 
the  explanation.  It  is  said  of -a  certain  ar- 
tist, who,  for  fear  his  pictures  might  not  be 
understood,  would  have  them  all  labelled,  as, 
"  This  is  a  Horse,"  "  This  is  a  Dog,"  or 
whatsoever  the  animal  might  be.  I  do  not 
say  that  this  would  be  necessary  here  ;  but  I 
do  think  any  person  at  all  curious  about  the 
seal,  could  not  get  as  correct  an  idea  in  any 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Tuesday,  August  18. 


519 


other  way  as  by  a  description  in  an  intelli- 
gent report. 

Mr.  BOLLES.  If  all  our  reports  go  into 
the  proceedings,  of  course  this  will  have  to 
go  amongst  them. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  Mr.  Presidest  :  I  like 
the  motion,  except  the  instructions.  I  hope 
the  Convention  will  allow  the  report  to  go  to 
the  committee  again  without  instructions.  I 
find  in  most  of  the  reports  accompanying  the 
seal  to  other  State  Constitutional  Conventions, 
a  rather  broad  sketch  of  their  early  history 
intended  to  be  illustrated;  and  it  seems  to 
me  that  is  proper.  I  am  opposed  to  incor- 
porating this  report  into  the  Constitution,  as 
suggested  by  the  gentleman  fi-om  St.  Antho- 
ny, (Mr.  Secombe)  ;  but  I  think  it  should  go 
upon  the  record.  I  think  the  report  very 
proper  as  made.  And  I  think,  if  the  report 
were  recommitted  without  instructions — the 
committee  now  understanding  what  the  Con- 
vention desire  to  have  represented — they 
would  be  able  at  once  to  make  a  satisfiictory 
report.  I  think  it  would  be  much  better  to 
recommit  vrithout  instructions. 

Mr.  BOLLES.  I  am  willing  so  to  modify 
my  motion  in  that  respect. 

Mr.  NO  RTH.  Before  the  question  is  taken, 
I  would  suggest,  inasmuch  as  there  is  a  diver- 
sity of  opinion  in  regard  to  the  design  and 
motto,  and  nobody  feels  perfectly  satisfied 
with  what  we  have  got,  whether  it  would  not 
be  well  to  leave  the  whole  matter  to  the  first 
Legislature  to  decide,  instead  of  adopting  this 
in  a  hasty  manner?  Perhaps  in  the  interme- 
diate time  more  designs  and  mottoes  may  be 
suggested,  some  of  which  would  give  more 
complete  satisfaction. 

Mr.  BILLINGS.  I  should  be  ver>'  glad  to 
have  the  labor,  necessary  to  present  this  thing 
in  a  proper  shape,  devolve  upon  others,  but  I 
question  much  whether  the  legislative  body 
will  give  it  that  necessary  attention.  I  hope 
the  report  will  be  recommitted.  There  are 
other  mistakes  to  which  I  have  not  called  the 
attention  of  the  Convention.  I  think  if  this 
matter  should  go  upon  the  record  as  it  now  is, 
it  would  not  be  satisfactory,  because  no  per- 
son by  reading  this  report  can  tell  what  our 
motto,  at  least,  is  upon  the  seal.  We  sug- 
gested several  and  then  struck  out  part.  "We 
also  suggested  a  Latin  phrase,  and  we  have 
stricken  that  out. 


Mr.  WILSON.  Though  I  reaUy  like  this 
design,  I  hope  the  motion  of  my  friend  firom 
Rice  county  will  prevail. 

Mr.  NORTH.  I  made  no  motion ;  merely 
a  suggestion. 

Mr.  WILSON.  WeU,  I  hope  the  sugges- 
tion will  be  incorporated  into  a  motion,  fi-om 
the  fact  that  between  this  time  and  the  meet- 
ing of  the  Legislature,  persons  having  any 
taste  will  be  thinking  of  this  thing.  It  is 
something  any  one  would  be  proud  to  sub- 
mit. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  Unless  it  be  incorporated 
as  an  article  of  the  Constitution,  I  do  not  see 
how  any  body  is  to  be  bound  by  it.  It  is 
suggested  by  gentlemen  that  it  is  unprece- 
dented to  incorporate  into  the  Constitution 
an  article  descriptive  of  the  seal.  But  if  we 
merely  adopt  the  report,  who  knows  that  it  is 
the  Seal  of  the  future  State  ?  If  it  is  the 
wish  of  the  Convention  that  it  should  be 
placed  in  an  article,  I  think  the  subject  had 
better  be  postponed. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  Can  the  gentleman  point 
to  a  Constitution  vrhich  has  a  description  of 
the  seal  in  it  ? 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  It  is  objected  that  there 
is  no  article  ;  I  then  suggested,  if  there  is  not, 
it  would  not  be  binding  upon  the  future 
State. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  beUeve  that  every  State 
has  a  copy  of  the  seal  in  their  Constitution, 
as  I  said  before,  with  a  very  short  history  of 
the  Territory,  giving  an  account  by  whom 
discovered,  how  populated,  by  whom,  what 
nation,  &c.  It  seems  to  me  that  by  adopting 
the  report  of  the  Committee,  we  adopt  their 
seal.  I  think  a  seal  should  go  out  with  the 
Constitution.  I  have  heard  no  particular 
fault  found  with  that  suggested  by  the  com- 
mittee. I  like  the  suggestion  of  my  colleague, 
a  member  of  tlie  committee,  (Mr.  Billixgs,) 
to  substitute  a  canoe  in  the  place  of  the  steam- 
boat. I  hope  the  motion  to  recommit  will 
prevail. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  I  hope  so.  My  col- 
league, (Mr.  Lowe,)  the  Chairman  of  the 
Committee  is  not  now  present. 

Mr.  BILLINGS.  The  gentleman  is  mista- 
ken in  regard  to  his  colleague  being  Chair- 
man. During  the  time  I  was  detained  from 
the  Convention  by  sickness,  that  gentleman 
made  the  report,  signing  himself  as  Chairman. 


520 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Tuesday,  August  18. 


Mr.  STANNARD.  I  know  nothing  about 
it  except  what  appears  in  the  report.  I  do 
know  that  he  feels  great  interest  in  this  mat- 
ter, and  would  like  to  be  heard. 

The  question  was  then  taken,  and  the  re- 
port was  recommitted  to  the  committee. 

And  then,  on  motion  of  Mr.  KING  (at  five 
o'clock  and  thirty  minutes,)  the  Convention 
adjourned. 


THIRTY-SECOND  DAY. 

Tuesday,  August  18,  1857. 
The  Convention  met  at  nine  o'clock,  a.  m. 
Prayer  by  the  Chaplain,  Rev.  E.  D.  Neill. 
The  journal  of  yesterday  was  read  and 
approved. 

EEPORTS. 

Mr.  BILLINGS,  from  the  committee  on 
State  Seal  and  Coat  of  Arms,  made  the  fol- 
lowing report,  containing  a  brief  and  more 
correct  description  of  the  Seal  and  Coat  of 
Arms,  which  they  reconamended  for  adoption, 
viz: 

"  The  principal  feature  of  the  seal  is  a  water  fall 
within  a  shield,  (supposed  to  represent  the  Minne- 
haha Falls.)  On  one  side  of  the  shield  is  repre- 
sented an  Indian,  with  his  tomahawk,  bow  and 
arrows  at  his  feet.  Opposite  the  Indian  is  the  fig- 
ure of  a  white  man,  with  a  sheaf  of  wheat  and  some 
of  the  implements  of  agriculture  at  his  feet.  The 
Indian  is  depicted  with  his  face  toward  the  setting 
sun,  and  as  asking  of  the  white  man,  by  an  implor- 
ing gesture,  whither  he  shall  go?  To  this  the 
white  man  is  responding,  by  pointing  to  the  imple- 
ments of  agriculture  before  mentioned,  as  indi- 
cative that  he  must  now  assume  the  habits  of 
civilized  life.  In  one  corner  of  the  field  occurs  a 
distant  view  of  Lake  Superior,  with  a  ship  under 
sail.  In  another,  is  a  view  of  a  river  (which  may 
be  supposed  to  be  the  Minnesota,)  with  a  steam- 
boat ascending  its  stream  to  the  westward.  In 
rear  of  the  shield  and  waterfall,  three  pine  trees 
are  placed,  representatives  of  the  three  great  pine 
regions  in  Minnesota — that  of  the  St.  Croix,  that 
of  the  Mississrppi,  and  that  of  Lake  Superior. 
Above  these  appears  the  North  Star. 

"For  a  motto,  to  accompany  the  words,  'State 
of  Minnesota,  A.  D.  1857,'  are  these  words: 
'Liberty  and  Union.'  " 

The  report  was  read  and  laid  on  the  table. 

Mr.  MANTOR,  from  tho  Committee  on  en- 
grossment, reported  back  as  correctly  enrolled, 
report  number  twenty-three,  on  Public  Pro- 
perty. 


SCHEDULE. 

On  motion  of  Mr.  CLEGHORN,  the  Con- 
vention resolved  itself  into  the  committee  of 
the  Whole,  (Mr.  Watson  in  the  Chair,)  upon 
report  number  twenty -four,  from  the  commit- 
tee on  Schedule.  [For  report  see  proceedings 
of  August  seventeenth.] 

The  report  was  read  by  sections,  for  amend- 
ment. 

"Sec.  6.  The  first  session  of  the  Legislature  of 
the  State  of  Minnesota  shall  commence  on  the  sec- 
ond Tuesday'of  January,  1858,  and  shall  be  held 
at  the  Capitol  in  the  city  of  St.  Paul,  at  which 
time  and  place  the  State  Election  Commissioner 
hereinafter  provided  for,  shall  attend  with  a  list 
of  the  members  elect  in  each  house ;  and  after 
reading  said  list  to  the  menxbers  assembled,  shall 
call  them  to  order,  and  act  as  presiding  officer, 
until  a  temporary  organization  shall  be  effected  in 
each  branch.  The  said  State  Election  Commis- 
sioner shall  likewise  communicate  to  the  Legisla- 
ture, a  list  of  all  the  State  and  Judicial  officers 
elected,  with  an  abstract  of  the  votes  cast  for  each; 
and  on  the  day  subsequent  to  the  permanent  organ- 
ization of  the  Legislature,  by  the  election  of  per- 
manent officers  thereof,  the  State  and  Judicial 
officers  elect,  shall  appear  in  the  Hall  of  the  House 
of  Eepresentatives,  stnd  in  presence  of  both 
branches  of  the  Legislature  in  Convention  assem- 
bled, shall  be  publicly  sworn  into  office,  and  shall 
thereafter  assume  and  perform  all  the  duties  of 
their  several  ofiices  as  enjoined  upon  them  by  the 
provisions  of  this  Constitution." 

Mr.  STANNARD.  It  seems  to  me  that 
there  should  be  some  amendment  made  in 
regard  to  the  swearing  in  of  the  State  oflBcers. 
The  section,  as  it  now  stands,  provides  that 
the  State  and  Judicial  officers  elect  shall  ap- 
pear in  the  Hall  of  the  House  of  Representa- 
tives, and  in  presence  of  both  branches  of  the 
Legislature  in  Convention  assembled,  shall  be 
publicly  sworn  into  office.  Now  it  may  so 
happen,  and  it  has  so  happened  in  one  or  two 
States,  that  one  branch  of  the  Legislature 
may  be  politically  opposed  to  the  other,  and 
refuse  to  meet  in  joint  convention  at  any  time 
during  the  entire  session.  I  will  prepare  an 
amendment  to  meet  my  views. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  I  move  to  amend  the 
sixth  section  in  the  third  line,  by  striking  out 
the  words  "  the  Capitol  in,"  so  as  merely  to 
provide  that  the  first  Legislature  shall  be  held 
in  tho  city  of  St.  Paul. 

Tho  amendment  was  not  agreed  to. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  I  now  move  to  amend 
by  inserting  in  line  fourteen,  between  the 
words  "presence^"  and  "of,"  the  words  "of 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Tcesday,  August  18. 


521 


the  House  of  Representatives  or."  The 
amendment  is  ofFered  not  at  all  to  exclude  the 
idea  that  the  officers  should  be  qualified  in 
the  presence  of  both  branches  of  the  legisla- 
ture, but  to  obviate  the  difficulty  which  might 
arise  in  case  one  branch  being  poUtically  op- 
posed to  the  incoming  officers,  should  refuse 
to  meet  in  joint  convention.  If  the  only  way 
they  could  be  qualified  was  in  joint  conven- 
tion, one  body  might  have  it  in  their  power 
to  put  ofiF  their  being  qualified  for  any  length 
of  time.  In  one  State  the  election  of  an  Uni- 
ted States  Senator  was  prevented  for  a  great 
length  of  time,  because  one  House,  having  a 
majority  opposed  to  the  real  majority  of  both 
Houses  in  joint  convention,  refused  to  go  into 
joint  convention. 

Mr.  MORGAN.  I  think  the  amendment 
only  meets  a  part  of  the  difficulty,  and  that 
is  where  the  Senate  refuses  to  go  into  joint 
session.  But  in  case  the  House  of  Represen- 
tatives should  refuse  to  admit  those  officers, 
then  the  amendment  should  provide  that  they 
may  be  qualified  before  the  Senate.  That 
would  obviate  the  whole  difficulty. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  Suppose  they  both  re- 
fuse? 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  I  move  to  amend  the 
amendment  by  striking  out  all  after  the  word 
"  each"  in  the  eleventh  line.  I  think  if  the 
whole  of  this  latter  part  of  the  section  should 
be  adopted,  there  would  still  another  difficul- 
ty arise,  which  has  not  yet  been  mentioned. 
Suppose  some  of  these  State  or  Judicial  offi- 
cers should  fail  to  appear  before  both  or 
either  branch  of  the  Legislature  at  that  particu- 
lar time — being  detained  by  sickness,  accident 
or  business ;  the  question  arises,  how  could 
they  be  quaUfied  as  officers  ?  It  strikes  me 
that  the  whole  of  this  latter  part  of  the  sec- 
tion is  an  extraordinary  piece  of  Constitu- 
tional legislation.  I  do  not  know  where  it 
was  found,  though  I  was  a  member  of  the 
committee  that  reported  it.  Though  my 
name  appears  to  it,  I  do  not  pretend  to  father 
but  very  little  of  this  report.  It  certainly 
was  not  found  in  the  Constitution  of  "Wiscon- 
sin, which  has  been  copied  up  to  this  time, 
terhatim  et  literatim.  It  seems  to  me  we  had 
better  dispense  with  the  whole  of  it,  and  al- 
low our  officers  to  be  qualified  in  the  ordinary 
way,  by  appearing  before  some  officer  quali- 
fied to  administer  oaths,  and  taking  the  ordi- 
66 


nary  oath  of  office.  If  there  is  any  good 
reason  why  these  words  should  be  retained, 
I  do  not  know  it. 

The  PRESIDENT.  The  motion  of  the  gen- 
tleman from  Chisago,  (Mr.  Stasnaed,)  must 
be  first  put,  and  then  the  other  amendment 
will  be  in  order. 

The  amendment  was  agreed  to. 

Mr.  DAVIS  moved  to  amend  by  striking 
out  the  words  "  at  the  Capitol  in  the  city  of 
"  St.  Paul,"  in  the  third  line,  and  inserting  the 
words  "  at  the  city  of  St.  Peter,  in  the  Capi- 
"  tol  buildings  erected  on  the  site  selected  by 
"  building  Commissioners,  Secombe,  et.  al. 

Mr.  LOWE.  I  hope  that  amendment  will 
prevail.  We  all  know  that  the  expense  of 
living  in  St.  Paul  has  been  more  than  it  ought 
to  be,  and  I  am  of  opinion  that  we  might  hve 
more  economically  in  St.  Peter.  I  speak  of 
those  who  have  occasion  to  assemble  at  the 
Capital.  It  is  on  that  ground  that  that  I  favor 
the  amendment.  I  believe  the  people  of  St. 
Peter,  for  the  sake  of  getting  the  Capital  there, 
would  be  willing  to  furnish  us  with  accommo- 
dations at  a  reasonable  price. 

Mr.  PERKINS.  I  hope  it  wiU  prevail  for 
this  reason  also,  that  St.  Peter  has  failed  in 
her  endeavors  to  carry  a  great  many  things 
thus  far,  and  if  we  can  give  her  a  lift  now,  we 
better  do  it,  and  satisfy  our  friends  and  keep 
them  from  bolting. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  would  inquire  as  to 
the  convenience  of  the  building  at  St.  Peter. 
Is  it  as  convenient  as  this  ? 

Mr.  McCLURE.  Has  it  got  two  ends 
to  it  ?     [Laughter.] 

Mr.  DAVIS.  I  would  say  that  the  build- 
ing is  quite  as  good,  if  not  better  than  this, 
and  upon  the  site  selected  by  the  Com- 
missioners. As  to  St.  Peter  having  failed  in 
everything  she  has  undertaken,  I  would  in- 
form the  gentleman  from  Rice  county  that  he 
is  mistaken.  She  has  endeavored  to  get  up 
a  good  city  there,  and  she  has  done  it. 

The  amendment  was  rejected. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  I  now  move  to  strike 
out  all  after  the  word  "  each  "  in  the  eleventh 
line. 

The  amendment  was  not  agreed  to. 

Mr.  FOLSOM.  I  move  to  strike  out 
"  Tuesday "  in  the  second  line,  and  insert 


522 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Tdesd ay,  August  18. 


the  words  "  Thursday  at  twelve  o'clock  M." 
Tuesday  is  a  bad  day,  and  will  compel  mem- 
bers to  travel  on  the  Sabbath  to  get  here.  Wc 
have  heard  a  great  deal  about  breaking  the 
Sabbath  in  the  organization  of  this  Conven- 
tion. 

The  amendment  was  agreed  to. 

Mr.  McCLURE.  I  move  to  strike  out  all 
after  the  words,  "  in  each  branch,"  in  the 
eighth  line.  I  hope  before  gentlemen  vote 
upon  my  amendment,  they  wall  look  carefully 
at  the  clause  I  propose  to  strike  out.  I  am 
aware  that  the  Chairman  of  the  committee  on 
the  Schedule  is  a  man  of  a  liigh  sense  of  pro- 
priety, but  it  seems  to  me  that  he  is  giving  a 
little  more  dignity  to  the  oflBcers  contemplated 
by  this  section,  than  is  absolutely  necessary, 
in  initiating  them  into  oflBce  in  a  country  like 
this.  They  must  all  appear  at  the  Capitol, 
and  in  the  presence  of  both  branches  of  the 
Legislature  they  must  take  an  oath  to  support 
the  Constitution  of  the  State  of  Minnesota,^ 
and  then  they  must  retire  formally,  I  sup- 
pose, to  the  discharge  of  the  duties  of  their 
respective  offices.  So  much  formality  seems 
to  me  unnecessary.  Although  it  is  a  solemn 
thing  to  take  an  oath  of  office  at  any  time,  it 
seems  to  me  that  it  is  not  necessary  to  come 
to  St.  Paul  or  St.  Peter,  and  before  the  Le- 
gislature, to  do  it. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  move  to  amend  the 
amendment  by  striking  out  all  after  the  word 
"  each,"  in  the  eleventh  line,  and  the  words, 
"  and  shall,"  in  the  fifteenth  line,  and  insert 
the  following : 

"And  the  several  persons  elected  to  the  said  of- 
fices shall,  as  soon  as  may  be  practicable  thereaf- 
ter, be  sworn  into  office  before  any  person  author- 
ized to  administer  oaths,  and  shall  file  their  oaths 
of  office  in  the  office  of  the  Secretary  of  State." 

The  amendment  to  the  amendment  was  not 
agrped  to. 

The  amendment  was  then  agreed  to. 

Mr.  PECKIIAM.  The  first  part  of  this 
section  provides  that  the  Election  Commission- 
er shall,  at  the  assemblmg  of  the  Legislature, 
attend  with  a  list  of  the  members  elect  in 
each  House.  Now  the  Election  Commissioner 
cannot  perform  that  duty  unless  ho  has  the 
power  of  being  in  two  places  at  the  same 
time.  I  move  to  strike  out  the  whole  sec- 
tion, and  something  else  can  be  substituted 
for  it.    Wc  have  already  stricken  out  the  lat- 


ter half,  and  I  move  to  strike  out  the  first 
half. 

The  motion  was  not  agreed  to. 

Mr.  HARDING.  I  move  to  strike  out  the 
word  "  second,"  in  the  second  line,  and  insert 
"  first,"  so  as  to  provide  for  the  meeting  of 
the  Legislature  on  the  first  Thursday  of 
January. 

The  amendment  was  agreed  to. 

Mr.  HUDSON.  I  move  the  following  sub- 
stitute for  the  section : 

"The  first  session  of  the  Legislature  of  the 
State  of  Minnesota  shall  commence  on  the  first 
Thursday  of  Janury  next,  at  10  o'clock  A.  M.,  and 
shall  be  held  at  the  city  of  St.  Paul,  which  shall  be 
and  remain  the  seat  of  Government  until  other- 
wise provided  by  law." 

Mr.  HARDING.  I  move  to  amend  the 
amendment  by  striking  out  all  after  the 
words,  "  Saint  Paul,"  and  inserting,  "  until 
"the  year  1865,  when  the  seat  of  Govern- 
"  ment  shall  be  permanently  established  by 
"  the  Legislature." 

The  amendment  to  the  amendment,  and 
the  amendment  itself,  were  rejected. 

"  Sec.  7.  All  county,  precinct  and  township  of- 
ficers, shall  continue  to  hold  their  respective  offices 
unless  removed  by  the  competent  authority,  until 
the  Legislature  shall  provide  by  law  for  filling  such 
offices  respectively  in  conformity  with  the  provis- 
ions of  this  Constitution." 

Mr.  FOLSOM.  I  move  to  insert  the 
words,  "  and  municipal,"  after  the  word 
"  township." 

The  amendment  was  agreed  to. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  I  move  to  strike  out 
all  after  the  word  "  authority."  If  we  adopt 
the  whole  of  this  section,  no  county  officer 
can  be  elected,  in  my  judgment,  at  the  time 
our  State  officers  are  elected,  or  at  the  time 
our  Constitution  is  adopted. 

The  amendment  was  agreed  to. 

"  Sec.  8.  The  President  of  this  Convention 
shall,  immediatel}'  after  its  adjournment,  cause  a 
fair  copy  of  this  Constitution  to  be  forwarded  to 
the  President  of  the  United  States,  to  bo  laid  be- 
fore the  Congress  of  the  United  States  at  its  next 
session." 

Mr.  KEMP  moved  to  strike  out  the  word 
"  fair." 

The  amendment  was  agreed  to. 

Mr.  STANNARD  moved  to  strike  out  all 
after  the  words,  "  United  States." 

The  amendment  was  agreed  to. 


MINNESOTA  CONTENTION  DEBATES— Tcesdat^  Acctrsr  18. 


528 


Mr.  COGGSWELL.  I  now  move  to  strike 
out  the  balance  of  the  section.  I  do  not  see 
any  object  in  forwarding  a  copy  of  the  Con- 
stitution to  the  President  of  the  United 
States,  any  more  than  in  forwarding  a  copy 
to  Mike  Walsh,  in  the  city  of  New  York. 
He  has  nothing  to  do  with  it  until  it  is  rati- 
fied by  the  people.  It  might  give  him  some 
information  about  what  we  have  been  doing 
here,  but  he  can  get  that  from  the  papers  just 
as  well 

The  amendment  was  agreed  to. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  It  seems  to  me  that  the 
provisions  in  section  nine,  for  voting  upon 
this  Constitution,  are  not  sufficiently  definite. 
Its  language  is  this:  "On  such  ballots  as 
"  are  for  the  Constitution,  shall  be  written  or 
"  printed  the  word  '  yes,'  and  on  such  as  are 
. "  against  the  Constitution,  the  word  '  no.'  " 
Now  that  day  of  election  is  the  day  of  the 
Territorial  Election,  and  it  is  not  impossible 
that  there  may  be  submitted  to  the  people  on 
that  day  two  Constitutions.  If  that  should 
be  the  case,  and  a  ballot  should  be  handed  in 
to  the  officer,  simply  with  the  words  "  yes" 
or  *'  no  "  upon  it,  what  xmderstanding  would 
the  officer  get  from  it  ?  I  propose  to  amend 
by  inserting  before  the  word  "yes"  the 
words,  "  the  Constitution  adopted  August  — , 
"  1857,"  and  before  the  word  "no  "  the  same 
language. 

Mr.  HUDSON.  Suppose  both  Constitu- 
tions should  be  adopted  the  same  day  ? 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  have  left  the  date  for 
the  day  blank,  as  it  is  not  probable  they  will 
be  adopted  by  the  Conventions  on  the  same 
day.  If  they  should  be,  some  further  desig- 
nation would  be  needed. 

Mr.  KEMP.  I  move  to  amend  the  amend- 
ment so  that  it  shall  substantiaDy  read,  "  The 
"  Republican  Constitution,  adopted  Aug.  — , 
"  1857,  &c."  Then  the  people  in  the  country 
will  be  sure  to  know  what  Constitution  they 
are  voting  for ;  whereas,  imder  the  other 
form,  they  might  be  ignorant  of  the  day  upon 
which  the  two  respective  Constitutions  were 
passed. 

Mr.  PERKINS.  I  shall  vote  for  this 
amendment,  if  it  will  obviate  the  difficulty 
which,  it  has  occurred  to  us,  might  be  in  the 
way,  ever  since  we  have  been  forming  this 
Constitution.  The  question  with  us  has  been, 
how  shall  we  get  this  Constitution  before  the 


people,  and  have  the  vote  upon  it  properly 
defined,  if  another  Constitution  should  also 
be  before  the  people  ?  That  problem  has  not 
yet  been  satisfactorily  solved.  How  can  a 
distinction,  be  made  between  tiie  two  ?  It 
seems  to  me  that  the  proposed  amendment 
does  not  get  rid  of  the  difficulty.  And  as  to 
labelling  it  "  Republican,"  that  would  be  a 
little  out  of  character,  when  in  fact  it  should 
be  and  is,  a  Constitution  for  the  people  of  the 
State  of  Minnesota.  I  do  not  know  that  any 
distinction  at  all  can  be  made. 

Mr.  NORTH.  Can  any  other  ballots  on 
that  day  be  received  by  the  Commissioners 
appointed  imder  the  provisions  of  this  report, 
except  ballots  which  are  cast  for  or  against 
this  Constitution?  If  these  Commissioners 
were  empowered  on  that  day  to  receive  ballots 
for  other  purposes,  there  might  be  confusion. 
But  it  seems  to  me  that  these  Commissioners 
have  nothing  else  to  do.  They  must  have  a 
box  distinctly  devoted  to  this  Constitution, 
and  there  can  be  no  difficulty  arising. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  The  judges  of  election, 
under  the  article  adopted,  are  the  judges 
under  the  Territorial  organization — the  pri- 
mary officers  for  receiving  the  votes.  The 
Commissioners  appointed  ^re  merely  the 
County  Commissioners  to  whom  those  rotes 
are  returned. 

Mr.  HUDSON.  I  do  not  think  it  is  worth 
while  to  spend  too  much  time  upon  this.  It 
seems  to  be  the  impression,  that  through  the 
Committee  of  Conferenc**,  there  will  be  but 
one  Constitution  submitted,  or  if  that  is  not 
done,  that  an  arrangement  will  be  made  by 
which  the  two  shall  be  submitted  upon  the 
same  day. 

Mr.  MILLS.  I  hope  this  section  will  be 
permitted  to  remain  as  it  is,  and  if  any  dis- 
tinction is  to  be  made,  let  the  other  party 
make  it. 

The  amendment  to  the  amendment,  and 
the  amendment  itself,  were  rejected. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL  moved  to  amend  sec- 
tion nine,  specifying  the  qualifications  of 
those  who  shall  vote  upon  the  Constitution, 
by  striking  out  "  three  months "  and  insert- 
ing "  thirty  days,"  so  that  it  shall  read — 

"  All  persons  who  have  resided  in  the  proposed 
State  thirtv  days,  and  are  otherwise  duly  qualified 
kc,  shall  be  entitled  to  vote  for  or  against  the 
adoption  of  this  Constitution,  and  for  all  officers 
first  elected  under  it." 


524 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES—Tuesdat,  August  18. 


Mr.  FOLSOM.  It  appears  to  me  that 
three  month's  residence  is  a  short  period 
enough.  We  know  that  two  or  three  thou- 
sand voters  will  be  brought  into  the  Territory 
to  work  upon  the  railroads,  thirty  days  or 
more  before  election,  and  I  do  not  think  they 
are  prepared  to  vote  upon  our  Constitution. 

Mr.  KING.  I  do  not  think  the  objection 
of  the  gentleman  from  Chisago  is  exactly 
right.  We  know  that  the  Republicans  will 
act  honestly,  while  the  other  side  will  not. 
They  will  import  votes  anyhow,  and  put 
them  through.  Now  I  want  to  have  as  good 
a  chance  as  they,  without  violating  any  law 
or  principle. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  I  hope  before  mem- 
bers vote  this  amendment  down,  they  will 
take  into  consideration  the  circumstances 
which  surround  us,  and  the  rights  of  the 
actual  residents  of  this  Territory  who  expect 
to  remain  here,  in  regard  to  voting  either  for 
or  against  this  Constitution.  As  far  as  I  am 
concerned,  I  have  no  knowledge  of  any  inten- 
tion of  importing  three  or  four  thousand  men 
into  our  Territory  within  the  next  forty  or 
sixty  days,  and  indeed,  I  do  not  believe  there 
is  any  intention  upon  the  part  of  any  one  to 
carry  out  a  scheme  of  that  character.  It 
seems  to  me  that  there  cannot  be  a  very  large 
importation  of  men  by  Republicans  or  Demo- 
crats between  the  time  this  Constitution  shall 
be  sent  forth  from  our  hands,  and  the  time 
when  the  people  will  be  called  to  vote  upon 
it.  And  furthermore,  I  can  see  no  inducement. 
Men  certainly  will  not  be  brought  here  for 
the  purpose  of  commencing  operations  on  our 
railroads,  and  if  they  are  brought  here  at  all, 
it  will  be  for  the  purpose  of  voting  for  or 
against  this  Constitution.  We  have  no  right 
to  suppose  that  our  friends,  or  our  political 
enemies,  will  resort  to  any  such  measures. 
Now  it  seems  to  me  that  every  person  who 
comes  into  our  territory  with  the  intention 
of  making  his  permanent  residence  among  us, 
should  have  the  right  to  vote  for  or  against 
this  Constitution.  It  is  to  effect  n(rt  only 
him,  but  his  posterity  for  all  time  to  come, 
and  it  seems  to  me  as  though  we  could  trust 
him  with  that  right.  For  the  purpose  of 
securing  them  that  right,  I  want  at  least  no 
longer  than  thirty  days'  residence  in  the  Ter- 
ritory required.  In  Wisconsin,  every  bona, 
fide  resident  was  permitted  to  vote  for  or 


against  her  Constitution.  But  I  do  not  pro- 
pose to  go  as  far  as  the  Constitutional  Con- 
vention of  Wisconsin  went.  I  would  require 
a  residence  of  thirty  days,  which  I  think  is 
long  enough  to  manifest  an  intention  of  re- 
maining, and  of  making  this  their  permanent 
home. 

Mr.  HARDING.  I  move  to  amend  the 
amendment  by  striking  ont  "thirty"  and 
inserting  "  ten." 

The  amendment  to  the  amendment  was  not 
agreed  to. 

The  amendment  was  agreed  to. 
Mr.  ROBBINS  moved  to  amend  the  ninth 
section  by  inserting  after  the  word  "  appoint- 
ment," line  sixteenth,  page  seven,  the  fol- 
lowing : 

"He,  (the  State  Election  Commissioner)  shall 
also  appoint  three  judges  of  election  in  each  elec- 
tion precinct  within  the  limits  of  the  proposed 
State,  whose  duty  it  shall  be  to  receive  the  votes 
upon  the  Constitution,  and  make  a  transcript  of 
the  same  to  the  appointed  Election  Commissioners 
of  the  particular  county  or  district." 

Mr.  ROBBINS  said  : — My  reason  for  offer- 
ing this  amendment  is,  that  in  many  of  the 
precincts  of  my  coimty — and  I  suppose  the 
same  is  true  of  other  counties — the  present 
judges  of  election  are  Democrats,  and  will  not 
receive  the  votes  upon  this  Constitution,  or 
recognize  the  action  of  this  Convention  in 
any  manner  whatever.  To  make  it  certain 
that  we  shall  have  a  full  return  of  votes  upon 
the  Constitution,  there  should  be  a  full  set  of 
officers  appointed,  from  State  Commissioner 
do^\Tl  to  precinct  officers. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  This  section  ap- 
points St.  a.  D.  Balcombe  State  Election 
Commissioner,  to  perform  such  duties  in 
regard  to  the  voting  upon  this  Constitution 
as  are  now  required  by  law  to  be  performed 
by  the  Secretary  of  the  Territory  in  regard  to 
other  elections  ;  and  if,  in  case  he  is  unable 
to  act,  he  may  designate  his  successor.  Sup- 
pose he  should  die  and  fail  to  do  so?  It 
seems  to  me  that  further  provision  should  be 
made  to  meet  every  possible  contingency. 

Mr.  MILLS.  I  would  enquire  whether  it 
would  not  be  the  duty  of  the  couflty  commis- 
sioners of  each  county  to  look  after  that 
particular  county,  in  regard  to  the  precinct 
election  officers  ? 

Mr.  ROBBINS.  I  think  not,  under  this 
section  as  it  now  stands.     I  think  perhaps  it 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Tuesday,  Acgcst  18. 


525 


k 


would  be  better  to  have  the  county  commis- 
sioners appoint  these  precinct  oflBcers,  rather 
than  that  the  State  Commissioiier  should 
do  it. 

The  amendment  was  rejected. 

Mr.  BOBBINS.  I  move  to  amend  by 
striking  out  all  after  the  word  "  same  "  in  the 
ninteenth  line,  page  seven.  The  portion 
which  I  move  to  strike  out  provides  for  the 
election  of  State  officers  and  members  of 
Congress  on  some  day  subsequent  to  the 
adoption  of  the  Constitution.  My  object  is 
to  eUcit  an  expression  of  opinion  on  this  one 
point — whether  it  would  be  advisable  to  have 
the  election  for  such  officers  on  the  same  day 
we  vote  upon  the  Constitution  or  not. 

Mr.  HUDSON.  Members  seem  quite  in- 
dififerent  about  this  whole  report.  I  suppose 
it  arises  from  the  expectation  of  some  com- 
promise, which  will  render  our  labors  upon 
this  report  useless. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  I  move  that  the  com- 
mittee rise,  report  progi'ess,  and  ask  leave  to 
sit  again.  This  report  has  been  laid  upon  our 
tables  this  morning  and  we  have  not  had  time 
to  consider  it. 

Mr.  ROBBINS.  I  ask  for  the  question  on 
my  amendment  first. 

The  question  was  taken  and  the  anendment 
was  agreed  to. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  I  now  make  my  mo- 
tion. 

Mr.  PERKINS.  The  reason  for  the  mo- 
tion certainly  is  a  good  one.  I  would  like  to 
have  it  deferred  untU  we  can  have  time  to  in- 
vestigate it. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to,  and  the  com- 
mittee accordingly  rose,  reported  progress  and 
asked  leave  to  sit  again. 

Leave  was  granted. 

COMPBOMISE   PROCEEDINGS. 

The  Sergeant-at-Arms  announced  Mr.  J.  J. 
Noah,  Secretary  of  the  Convention  in  the 
west  end  of  the  Capitol,  charged  with  a  com- 
munication, in  writing,  from  the  President  of 
that  body ;  which  was  laid  upon  the  Presi- 
dent's table. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  I  move  that  the  Con- 
vention take  a  recess  untU  two  and  a  half 
o'clock. 

The  motion  was  lost. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  I  move  a  call  of  the 
Convention. 


The  PRESIDENT  decided  that  a  call  was 
not  ordered. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  I  hold  that  a  single 
member  may  demand  a  call. 

The  PRESIDENT.  The  Chair  thinks  that 
it  requires  ten  members.  Rule  thirty  is  ex- 
plicit upon  that  point. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  I  submit  to  the  ruling 
of  the  Chair. 

Mr.  ALDRICH.  I  move  that  the  Conven- 
tion take  a  recess  for  twenty  minutes,  for  the 
purpose  of  going  into  caucus. 

The  motion  was  lost. 

(Cries  of  "read"  "read.") 

Mr.  NORTH.  I  move  that  this  Conven- 
tion take  a  recess  until  two  and  a  half  o'clock. 

The  motion  was  not  agreed  to. 

(Renewed  cries  of  "  read"  "  read.") 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  move  that  the  commu- 
nication laid  upon  the  table  be  now  read. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to. 

Mr.  KEMP.  I  rise  to  a  question  of  order. 
That  communication  is  not  business  connec- 
ted with  this  Convention. 

The  PRESIDENT.  The  communication 
has  been  ordered  to  be  read. 

The  communication  was  read,  and  is  as 
follows : 

"  Capitol,  St.  Pacl,  August,  18th  1857. 
Hox.  St.  a.  D.  Balcombe, 

President : 
"Sir: — The  Convention  over  which  I  preside 
has  this  day  penned  a  resolution  authorizing  me 
'  to  appoint  a  committee  of  five  to  confer  with  a 
committee  appointed  by  the  Convention  holding 
sessions  in  the  Representatives  Hall  of  this  Capi- 
tol,' designated  in  your  communication  of  this 
day. 

"  In  pursuance  of  said  resolution,  1  have  ap- 
pointed Messrs.  (tOeSax,  Browx,  Holcoube,  Shkr- 
BCRXE  and  Kdcgsburt  such  committee. 

"  A  certified  copy  of  the  resolution  referred  to 
is  herewith  enclosed. 

Very  Respectfully, 

Your  Obedient  Servant, 

H.  H.  SIBLEY,  President' 
"  JSesohed,  That  the  President  of  this  Conven- 
tion is  hereby  authorized  to  appoint  a  committee 
of  five,  to  confer  with  a  committee  appointed  by 
the  Convention  holding  sessions  in  the  Represen- 
tative Hall  in  this  Capitol,  upon  the  subject  desig- 
nated in  the  communication  just  received,  and  that 
the  President  is  hereby  authorized  to  communi- 
cate the  action  of  this  Convention  to  the  Conven- 
tion over  which  the  Hon.  Mr.  Baux>iibe  presides. 
"A  true  copy. 

Attest,  J.  J.  NOAH,  Secretary. 


526 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Tuesday,  August  18. 


The  Convention  then  took  a  recess  until 
half  past  two  o'clock. 

AFTERNOON  SESSION. 

THE   SCHEDULE. 

On  motion  by  Mr.  HARDING,  the  Con- 
Whole,  (Mr.  Wilson  in  the  Chair,)  and  re- 
vention  resolved  itself  again  into  committee  of 
the  sumed  the  consideration  of  the  Schedule, 
(Report  number  twenty-four.) 

Mr.  PECKHAM  proposed  further  to  amend 
the  ninth  section,  by  adding  in  the  ninth  line, 
the  words  "  the  Secretary  of  this  Convention 
" — L.  A.  Babcock,"  so  as  toappoint  two,  in- 
steiid  of  one  State  Election  Commissioner, 
viz:  St.  Andkew  D.  Balcojxbe,  and  L.  A. 
Babcock. 

The  amendment  was  agreed  to. 

The  section  was  then  made  to  correspond 
grammatically,  with  the  last  amendment,  cre- 
ating two  Commissioners  instead  of  one. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  I  ask  leave  of  the 
committee  to  move  that  the  committee  rise, 
report  progress  and  ask  leave  to  sit  again. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to. 

The  committee  accordingly  rose,  reported 
progress  and  asked  leave  to  sit  again. 

Leave  was  granted. 

On  motion  of  Mr.  GaLBRAITII,  the  Con- 
vention then  took  a  recess  for  fifteen  minutes. 

At  the  expiration  of  the  time  of  this  recess, 
the  President  resumed  the  chair,  and  the  Con- 
vention resolved  itself  again  into  committee 
of  the  Whole — Mr.  Colburn  in  the  Chair 
— and  resumed  the  consideration  of  the  Sched- 
ule. 

Mr.  SECOMBE  moved  so  to  amend  as  to 
authorize  the  County  Commissioners  to  ap- 
point three  judges  of  electiSn  to  each  election 
precinct,  which  was  agreed  to. 

Mr.  MILLS  moved  to  amend  section  nine 
by  striking  out  the  words  "  and  vacancies  in 
the  election  oflBces  filled." 

The  clause  reads  as  follows  : 

"The  election  shall  be  conducted  in  all  respects, 
and  vacancies  in  the  election  oiliccs  filled,  in  the 
manner  now  prescribed  by  law." 

The  araendiyent  was  agi'ced  to. 

Section  ten  was  then  read,  which  pro^'ides 
for  districting  the  State  for  members  of  the 
Senate  and  House  of  Representatives. 

Mr.  HARDING  moved  to  amend  by  strik- 
ing out  the  word  "  three"  ami  insert  "  four," 
so  as  to  make  it  read : 


"In  the  seventh  district,  the  County  of  Dodge 
and  the  County  of  Steele  shall  together  elect  four 
representatives  and  one  senator." 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  think  before  the  com- 
mittee do  that  they  had  better  ascertain 
where  they  are  going  to  cut  off  an  additional 
representative.  I  suppose  this  apportionment 
has  been  made  for  a  certain  number. 

Mr.  MANTOR.  I  would  like  to  know  upon 
what  basis  this  apportionment  was  made? 
It  seems  to  me  there  is  something  wrong,  but 
I  do  not  know  where  it  is.  I  see  Olmsted 
county  is  allowed  four  representatives  and 
one  senator,  while  the  counties  of  Dodge  and 
Steele  have  only  three  representatives  and 
one  senator.  I  know  there  is  a  greater  popu- 
lation in  those  counties  than  there  is  in  Olm- 
sted county. 

Mr.  MORGAN.  I  move  to  amend  so  that 
Dodge  county  shall  have  two  representatives 
and  Steele  two  representatives,  and  they  to- 
gether one  senator. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  do  not  know  as  I  shall 
have  a  better  opportunity  to  say  a  few  words 
upon  some  things  I  notice  in  this  report,  than 
the  present.  The  question  has  been  asked, 
what  basis  has  been  taken  in  making  out  this 
report.  It  would  seem  as  though  no  regular 
basis  had  been  taken.  For  instance,  in  the 
first  district  the  county  of  Houston  has  four 
representatives  and  one  senator.  There  is  a 
senator  to  four  representatives.  In  the  sec- 
ond district,  the  county  of  Fillmore  has  four 
representatives  and  two  senators.  There  is 
a  senator  to  two  representatives.  In  the 
third  district,  the  county  of  Mower  has  two 
representatives  and  one  senator.  There  again 
is  one  senator  to  two  representatives.  In  the 
fifth  district,  Winona  has  four  representatives 
and  the  county  of  Wabashaw  two  represen- 
tatives, and  together  they  have  two  senators — 
in  all  six  representatives  and  two  senators — 
one  senator  to  three  representatives.  And  so 
on  throughout  the  section. 

Without  going  any  farther,  we  find  three 
ratios — a  senator  to  two,  to  three,  and  to  four 
representatives.  Now  I  cannot  see  that  there 
is  any  basis  there.  It  seems  to  be  a  sort  of 
sliding  scale.  I  presume  there  is  sonie  com- 
pensation somewhere.  If  they  could  not  give 
a  county  a  sufficient  number  of  representa- 
tives, tliey  have  given  it  more  senators.  But 
certainly  there  does  not  seem  to  have  been 
any  fair  apportionment. 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES-Wbdnesdat,  August  1». 


627 


Mr.  MORGAN.  I  Avithdraw  my  amend- 
ment to  the  amendment. 

Mr.  MAXTOR.  I  do  not  wish  to  discuss 
this  nvittev.  But  I  am  satisfied  that  Dodge 
and  Steele  have  a  larger  population  than  some 
counties  which  are  allowed  four  representa- 
tives. I  am  quite  well  acquainted  with  Dodge 
county  and  some  portions  of  Steele  county, 
and  I  am  satisfied,  from  personal  knowledge 
of  that  fact.  I  do  not  think  it  will  be  doing 
more  than  justice  to  that  district  to  give  them 
another  rejDresentative. 

The  amendment  was  agreed  to. 
Mr.  ^7ATS0X.  It  is  provided  in  the 
eighth  district,  that  Waseca  shall  elect  one 
representative  and  Freeborn  one  representa- 
tive, and  they  together  one  senator.  Now  I 
am  satisfied  that  there  is  something  vsrong 
about  that.  I  know  that  those  two  counties 
are  entitled  to  a  larger  representation.  Their 
population  as  handed  in  to  the  committee 
was  9000,  and  they  have  only  one  represen- 
tative each.  As  the  apportionment  was  first 
made  by  the  committee,  Freeborn  and  Fari- 
bault coimties  were  put  together  as  one 
district,  and  given  three  representatives.  The 
district  was  afterwards  recast  and  Freeborn 
and  "Waseca  were  put  together,  and  allowed 
only  two  representatives ;  whereas,  they  are 
better  entitled  to  three  than  Freeborn  and 
Faribault.  I  move  to  add,  after  the  word 
"elect,"  the  words  "one  representative  and." 
That  will  give  each  county  one  representative, 
and  together  one  senator. 

Mr.  MURPHY.  It  seems  every  district 
wants  an  additional  representative.  Now 
when  we  come  to  our  district  we  shall  want 
the  same  addition.  It  seems  to  me  that  this 
is  not  right,  and  that  the  report  had  better  be 
referred  back  to  the  committee  for  their  re- 
vision. 

Mr.  WATSON.  We  might  just  as  well 
say  tliat  every  report,  which  we  do  not  per- 
fectly agree  upon,  shall  be  referred  back.  I 
think  we  can  fix  this  matter  up  here  just  as 
well. 

The  amendment  was  rgreed  to. 

Mr.  CLEGHORN.  There  is  evidently  no 
quorum  present,  and  I  move  that  the  com- 
mittee rise. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to,  and  the  commit- 
tee accordingly  rose  and  reported  that  the 


Convention  had  found  itself  without  a  quo- 
rum. 

And  then,  on  motion  of  Mr.-MURPHY,  (at 
4  o'clock  and  20  minutes)  the  Convention 
adjourned. 


THIRTY-THIRD  DAY. 

Wednesday,  August  19th,  1857. 
The  Convention  met  at  nine  o'clock,  a.  m. 
Prayer  by  the  Chaplain,  Rev.  E.  D.  Neill. 
The  Journal  of  yesterday  was  read  and  ap- 
proved. 

THE    SCHEDULE. 

On  motion  of  Mr.  HARDING,  the  Convention 
resolved  itself  into  Committee  of  the  Whole, 
Mr.  CoLBUBN  in  the  chair,  and  resumed  the 
consideration  of  the  Schedule. 

The  Clerk  resumed  the  reading  of  the  tenth 
section  by  clauses. 

Mr.  DAVIS.  In  the  thirteenth  district,  I 
move  to  strike  out  "one"  afl;er  Nicollet,  and 
insert  "two,"  so  as  to  give  Nicollet  two  rep- 
resentatives. That  county  has  probably 
between  6500  and  7000  inhabitants.  It  is 
one  of  the  oldest  counties  in  Minnesota — has 
several  large  towns,  and  is  tliickly  settled.  I 
have  no  desire  to  ask  anything  more  than  is 
right  for  my  county,  but  what  is  right  I  do 
demand,  and  hope  the  Convention  will  not 
refuse  to  grant  it. 

The  amendment  was  agreed  to. 
Mr.  SMITH.  In  the  twelfth  district,  I  move 
to  amend  so  as  to  give  Carver  county  two 
representatives  instead  of  one.  I  do  not 
know  upon  what  basis  this  division  is  made, 
but  I  think  she  is  entitled  to  two  representa- 
tives. 

Mr.  HUDSON.  The  basis  is  8000  for 
senator  and  3000  for  representative. 

Mr.  SMITH.  AU  I  ask  for  Carver  county, 
is  her  due  representation. 

Mr.  MORGAN.  In  regard  to  Carver 
county,  I  think  the  apportionment  was  made 
upon  actual  returns,  while  that  of  other  coun- 
ties was  made  upon  estimates.  My  belief  is 
that  Carver  contains  a  larger  population  than 
Nicollet.  I  was  opposed  to  giving  Nicollet 
county  an  additional  representative. 

Mr.  HUDSON.  The  committee  labored 
under  some  disadvantage  in  making  this  ap- 
portionment.    They  obtained  the  population 


528 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Wednesdat,  August  19. 


of  each  county  as  best  they  could.  Gentle- 
men handed  in  their  estimates,  in  the  first 
place ;  and  then  the  committee  took  the  vote 
which  was  cast  in  the  respective  counties  at 
the  last  election  and  made  estimates  from 
them,  and  in  these  various  ways  they  arrived 
at  their  conclusions  to  the  best  of  their  abil- 
ity. Eight  thousand  was  then  made  the  ba- 
sis for  Senator  and  three  thousand  for  Repre- 
sentative. If,  in  some  instances  where  the 
population  fell  short  of  what  was  required  for 
one  Senator,  the  committee  gave  one  Senator, 
but  in  some  measure  compensated  by  giving 
less  than  the  number  of  Representatives  the 
county  was  entitled  to.  This  was  the  onl}"- 
course  they  could  pursue,  and  in  the  aggre- 
gate they  considered  it  as  nearly  right  as  pos- 
sible. 

Mr.  SMITH.  I  move  that  Carver  county 
be  allowed  two  representatives. 

The  amendment  was  agreed  to. 
■  Mr.  NORTH.  In  the  tenth  district,  Da- 
kota is  allowed  four  representatives  and  Rice 
three  representatives,  and  they  together  elect 
three  Senators.  I  move  as  a  substitute  for 
that  provision  the  following  : 

"In  the  tenth  district  the  county  of  Dakota 
shall  elect  three  Representatives  and  two  Sena- 
tors; and  the  county  of  Rice  three  Representa- 
tives and  two  Senators." 

The  substitute  was  adopted. 

Mr.  GERRISH  moved  to  amend  the  pro- 
vision for  the  fifth  district,  by  giving  Winona 
and  Wabashaw  counties  one  additional  repre- 
sentative each,  and  increasing  their  Senators 
from  two  to  three. 

The  amendment  was  not  agreed  to. 

Mr.  BOLLES.  The  tenth  district  has 
been  altered  so  as  to  give  Dakota  and  Rice 
counties  each  three  representatives  and  two 
Senators.  I  think,  now,  they  should  consti- 
tute separate  districts. 

Mr.  HUDSON.  I  have  just  prepared  an 
amendment  to  the  following  effect : 

"In  the  tenth  district,  the  county  of  Dakota 
shall  elect  three  Representatives  and  two  Sena- 
tors; and 

"  in  the  twenty-first  district,  the  county  of  Rice 
shall  elect  three  Representatives  and  two  Sena- 
tors." 

That  will  make  them  separate  districts, 
and  by  placing  Rico  county  as  the  twenty- 
first  district,  we  avoid  the  necessity  of  cliang- 


ing  all  the  numbers  of  the  districts  following 
the  tenth. 

The  amendment  was  agreed  to. 

"  Skc.  11.  The  several  elections  provided  for 
by  this  article,  shall  be  conducted  according  to  the 
existing  laws,  except  as  is  otherwise  herein  provi- 
ded ,  and  the  returns  of  the  elections  for  all  offi- 
cers shall  be  made  to  the  county  election  commis- 
sioners ;  and  a  full  abstract  of  all  the  votes  cast 
for  each  and  every  office  shall  be  made  to  the  State 
election  commissioners,  who  shall  make  public 
proclamation  of  the  aggregate  of  the  votes  cast 
for  each  office,  in  every  district,  and  of  the  per- 
sons in  each  district  who  are  elected  to  the  several 
offices  voted  for." 

Mr.  SECOMBE  moved  to  amend  section 
eleven  by  adding  thereto  the  following : 

"And the  several  persons  so  declared  elected  to 
the  said  offices,  shall,  as  soon  as  practicable  there- 
after, take  and  subscribe  the  requisite  oath  of  of- 
fice, before  any  officer  authorized  to  administer 
oaths,  which  said  oaths  of  office  shall  be  filed  in 
the  office  of  the  Secretary  of  State  ;  and  the  said 
persons  shall  immediately  thereafter  enter  upon 
the  duties  of  their  said  offices." 

Mr.  BILLINGS.  That  amendment  covers 
the  ground  of  a  provision  in  section  six,  for  a 
similar  purpose,  which  the  committee  struck 
out  yesterday.  Now  I  prefer  that  portion  of 
section  six  to  this  amendment. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  It  is  not  similar,  but  rad- 
ically different  from  the  proposition  struck 
out  yesterday.  That  provision  was  that  on 
the  next  day  after  the  organization  of  the 
Legislature  all  the  officers  elect  should  ap- 
pear in  one  branch  of  the  Legislature,  and 
in  the  presence  of  both  branches  in  Conven- 
tion assembled,  take  the  oath  of  oflice ;  and 
if  they  failed  to  take  the  oath  at  the  time  and 
in  the  manner  prescribed,  there  was  no  pro- 
vision made  for  their  doing  so  at  any  other 
time,  or  in  a  different  manner.  The  proposi- 
tion I  have  submitted,  it  seems  to  me,  would 
remedy  all  the  difficulties  which  were  sug- 
gested then.  It  does  not  require  the  oflBcers 
to  come  to  any  particular  place,  but  that  they 
may  take  and  subscribe  the  oath  in  the  man- 
ner in  which  it  is  usually  done,  before  any 
proper  officer. 

Mr.  KING.  Does  it  apply  to  town  and 
county  officers  ? 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  To  all  officers  mentioned 
in  the  section.  It  might,  perhaps,  be  well  to 
change  the  place  of  filing  the  oath,  although 
in  the  first  instance  the  office  of  the  Secretary 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Wedxesdat,  Acgcst  19. 


529 


of  State  would,  perhaps,  be  the  only  place 
where  they  could  be  filed. 

Mr.  NORTH.  It  seems  to  me  necessary 
that  some  provision  of  that  kind  should  be 
inserted  here,  for  the  reason  that  there  is  no 
provision  elsewhere  prescribing  how  and 
when  those  officers  shall  take  upon  themselves 
the  duties  of  their  respective  offices. 

The  amendment  was  agreed  to.    . 

Mr.  MORGAN.  I  notice  in  the  twelfth 
section,  dividing  the  State  into  two  -Congress- 
ional districts,  the  new  counties,  which  were 
formed  last  winter  out  of  Brown  county,  are 
not  included. 

Mr.  SMITH.  I  move  to  amend  the  twelfth 
section,  by  adding  after  the  names  constitu- 
ting the  second  Congressional  district  the  fol- 
lowing : 

"And  all  counties  which  now  exist,  or  may 
hereafter  be  formed  north  of  the  Minnesota  river 
and  forty-fifth  degree  of  north  latitude,  not  other- 
wise provided  for." 

Mr.  BALCOMBE.  I  would  suggest  the 
propriety  of  obtaining  from  the  Secretary  of 
the  Territory,  the  names  of  the  new  counties, 
in  preference  to  adopting  an  amendment  so 
indefinite. 

The  amendment  was  not  agreed  to. 

The  twelfth  section,  apportioning  the  State 
into  judicial  districts  was  then  read. 

Mr.  MORGAN.  I  have  an  amendment 
which  afiects  three  or  four  of  the  districts, 
and  I  will  move  the  amendments  as  one.  It 
is  to  amend  by  taking  the  county  of  Dakota 
from  the  first  judicial  circuit  and  annexing  it 
to  the  fourth ;  by  taking  the  county  of  Sibley 
from  the  third,  and  the  counties  of  Le  Sueur 
and  Nicollet  from  the  fourth,  and  annexing 
them  to  the  fifth ;  and  by  taking  the  counties 
of  Mower  and  Dodge  fi-om  the  fiflh  and  an- 
nexing them  to  the  sixth. 

The  reasons  for  my  amendment  are  these : 
The  county  of  Dakota  is  placed  in  the  first 
district  with  Ramsey.  Now  my  belief  is, 
that  the  county  of  Ramsey  has  more  legal 
business  than  any  other  circuit  in  the  State, 
while  the  fourth  judicial  district  is  one  him- 
dred  and  sixty  miles  long,  and  only  fifty  or 
sixty  miles  wide — a  very  bad  shape.  By  ad- 
ding Dakota  to  it,  the  shape  will  be  improved. 

The  counties  of  Sibley,  Le  Sueur  and  Nic- 
ollet, added  to  the  Fiflh  Judicial  Circuit,  will 
67 


make  it  a  compact  district,  and  one  of  good 
shape. 

Mower  and  Dodge  added  to  the  Sixth 
will  make  a  district  of  six  counties,  and  be 
compact. 

That  is  the  arrangement  which  I  under- 
stand was  first  made  by  the  Committee,  and 
so  read  to  a  portion  of  the  members  •  assem- 
bled here. 

Mr.  BALCOMBE.  I  beheve  these  judicial 
circuits,  as  reported  by  the  Committee,  are  in 
accordance  with  the  wishes  of  most  of  the 
members  who  represent  these  various  dis- 
tricts. I  do  not  see  the  necessity  of  the 
change  proposed.  I  think  the  districts,  as 
now  arranged  are  of  contigious  territory  and 
very  compact,  and  thej^  have  been  arranged 
upon  consultation  with  the  members  from  the 
various  localities. 

Mr.  PERKINS.  The  gentleman  objects  to 
the  Fourth  District  as  being  in.  very  bad 
shape,  and  he  proposes  to  correct  it  by  ad- 
ding Dakota  coimty  to  the  district.  Now  all 
I  have  to  say  in  that  regard  is,  that  I  think 
the  inhabitants  of  that  district  would  be  very 
well  satisfied  with  the  arrangement  made  by 
the  committee,  and  that  they  would  not  be 
particularly  desirous  of  having  Dakota  added. 
And  as  far  as  the  shape  is  concerned,  it  ap- 
pears to  me  that  it  is  made  worse  by  that  ad- 
dition. It  would  not  add  one  iota  to  the 
symmetry  of  the  district. 

Mr.  MORGAN.  I  proposed  not  only  to 
add  Dakota,  but  to  take  away  the  counties  of 
Le  Sueur  and  Nicollet.  That  would  shorten 
the  district  fifty  miles. 

Mr.  PERKINS.  I  did  not  hear  that  part 
of  the  gentleman's  proposition. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  The  adoption  of  the 
amendment  proposed  by  the  gentleman  from 
Hennepin  will  leave  the  report  in  exactly  the 
shape  in  which  it  was  first  proposed  by  the 
committee,  upon  consultation  with  gentlemen 
of  the  bar,  and  read  to  the  Convention  in 
caucus.  No  objections  were  made  to  it,  but 
since,  alterations  have  been  mad€  by  the  com- 
mittee which  are  proposed  to  be  changed  back 
again  by  the  gentleman  from  Hennepin.  The 
original  arrangement  was  made  upon  request 
of  the  members  of  the  committee  on  the 
Schedule,  that  certain  gentlemen,  members  of 
the  bar,  should  propose  a  plan.  A  plan  was 
proposed  and  adopted  by  the  committee,  and 


530         MINNESOTA  CONVENTMION  DEBATES— Wednesday,  August  19. 


submitted  to  the  members  of  the  Convention 
in  caucus,  and  no  individual  made  an  objec- 
tion to  it,  I  believe  it  should  be  changed 
back  to  its  original  form. 

Mr.  BALCOMBE.  There  were  some 
changes  made,  at  the  request  of  members 
from  these  various  localities,  after  the  subject 
had  bean  submitted  to  the  members  in  cau- 
cus. The  different  districts  are  satisfactory 
to  the  members  from  those  districts,  and 
while  that  is  so,  members  from  other  districts 
ought  not  to  object.  If  the  gentleman  wishes 
to  make  a  change  in  his  own  district,  I  have 
no  objection,  but  I  object  to  his  urging  the 
change  of  other  districts  which  are  entirely- 
satisfactory  to  the  representatives  from  those 
districts. 

Mr.  M  ANT  OR.  I  hope  the  amendment 
will  not  prevail.  I  am  opposed  to  any  change 
in  the  shape  of  the  Fifth  District.  When  the 
report  was.  first  made  in  caucus  I  was  in  favor 
of  having  Dodge  county  attached  to  the  Sixth 
District  as  now  proposed  by  the  gentleman 
from  Hennepin,  but  upon  more  mature  con- 
sideration I  am  satisfied  that  the  present  ar- 
rangement is  the  better  one.  I  ask  it  as  a 
matter  of  favor,  to  say  the  least  of  it,  that  we 
shall  be  permitted  to  have  the  matter  our  own 
way. 

Mr.  MORGAN.  As  members  seem  to  be 
satisfied  with  the  changes  which  have  been 
made  in  their  own  districts,  I  withdraw  my 
amendment,  as  a  whole,  and  move  to  amend 
by  striking  Sibley  county  from  the  Third  Dis- 
trict, and  attaching  it  to  the  Fifth. 

Mr.  MANTOR.  I  really  hope  the  good 
sense  of  the  Convention  will  vote  that  down. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  hope  the  good  sense  of 
the  Convention  will  adopt  it.  The  amend- 
ment of  the  gentleman  from  Hennepin  was 
withdrawn,  with  the  understanding  that  an 
amendment  might  be  made  so  far  as  the  Third 
District  is  concerned. 

Mr.  WATSON.  The  gentleman  from  Hen- 
nepin seems  to  have  a  nice  idea  of  symmetri- 
cal forms.  If  they  are  desirous  of  getting 
rid  of  Sibley,  I  hope  they  will  attach  it  to  the 
Fourth  District,  instead  of  the  Fifth.  It 
would  be  distorting  the  Fifth  District  out  of 
all  proper  shape. 

The  amendment  was  rejected. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  would  call  the  atten- 
tion of  the  Convention  to  the  eighth  section,  for 


the  transmission  of  a  copy  of  this  Constitution, 
immediately  after  our  adjournment,  to  the 
President  of  the  United  States.  I  would  like 
to  have  it  amended  so  as  to  provide  that  the 
President  of  this  Convention  immediately  after 
the  adoption  of  the  Constitution  by  the  peo- 
ple, shall  transmit  a  copy  to  the  President  of 
the  United  States.  I  do  not  see  the  propriety 
of  forwarding  a  copy  before  its  adoption  by 
the  people. 

Mr.  HARDING.  I  move  to  strike  out  the 
whole  section. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  Whose  duty,  then,  will 
it  be  to  forward  a  copy  to  the  President?  It 
appears  to  me  that  if  the  people  adopt  this 
Constitution,  it  should  be  sent  to  Congress 
for  ratification  by  them,  and  we  should  make 
it  the  duty  of  some  one  to  transmit  a  copy. 
The  President  of  the  Convention  is  the  proper 
person  to  do  it. 

Mr.  HARDING.  I  suppose  we  shall  have 
a  delegate  in  Congress  whose  duty  it  will  be 
to  present  this  Constitution  to  Congress. 

The  motion  to  strike  out  was  lost. 

Mr.  NORTH.  I  move  to  amend  section 
nine  by  inserting  before  the  words  "yes" 
and  "  no,"  respectively,  the  words  "the Con- 
stitution of  the  State  of  Minnesota"  so  that 
the  clause  shall  read : 

"On  such  ballots  as  are  for  the  Constitution, 
shall  be  written  or  printed  the  words  ■'  The  Con- 
stitution of  the  State  of  Minnesota,  Yes,"  and  on 
such  as  are  against  the  Constitution,  the  words, 
"The  Constitution  of  the  State  of  Minnesota, 
"No." 

The  amendment  was  agreed  to. 

Mr.  MORGAN.  It  strikes  me  tliat  the 
term  "  Commission  OflBcers,"  is  not  a  very 
good  term  by  which  to  designate  those  per- 
sons to  whom  the  returns  are  to  be  made. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  move  to  strike  out 
those  words  and  substitute  "  Election  Com- 
missioners." 

The  amendment  was  agreed  to. 

Mr.  NORTH  moved  to  amend  section  nine, 
page  seven,  line  fifteen,  by  inserting  "  elec- 
tion" between  the  words  "county"  and 
"  commissioners." 

The  amendmend  was  agreed  to. 

Mr.  DAVIS.  I  move  to  amend  that  part 
of  section  ten,  which  refers  to  the  Sixth  Sen- 
atorial District,  by  striking  out  "one"  and 
inserting  "two,"  sotliat  it  shall  read— 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Wedxesday,  AvorsT  19. 


531 


k 


In  the  sixth  district,  the  county  of  Olmsted 
shall  elect  four  representatives  and  two  senator. 

Mr.  BILLINGS.  I  hope  that  amendment 
will  prevail,  and  I  think  no  other  reference 
need  be  made,  than  to  the  amendment  which 
was  made  to  the  tenth  district,  giving  Dakota 
and  Rice  counties  three  representatives  and 
two  senators  each. 

The  amendment  was  agreed  to. 

Mr.  COE.  I  move  to  amend  the  provision 
in  reference  to  the  first  district,  so  as  to  give 
Houston  county  two  senators  instead  of  one. 

The  amendment  was  agreed  to. 

Mr.  MORGAN.  I  move  to  amend  the 
provisions  for_the  sixteenth  and  seventeenth 
districts  by  strildnj  out  "  Benton,  Morrison 
and  Todd  "  from  the  former  district,  and  in- 
serting them  in  the  latter ,  and  by  striking 
out  "Steams  and  Sherburne"  from  the 
second  of  those  ^two  districts,  and  inserting 
them  in  the  first. 

My  reason  is  that  the  two  representative 
districts  in  those  two  senatorial  districts  are 
entirely  separated  by  an  intervening  district. 
By  making  the  change  I  propose,  you  bring 
them  together. 

The  amendment  was  agreed  to. 

Mr.  FOLSOM.  I  move  to  amend  section 
twelve,  by  adding  to  the  counties  constituting 
the  second  congressional  district,  the  names 
of  Buchanan,  Carlton  and  Mille  Lac. 

Mr.  CLEGHORN.  I  move  to  amend  the 
amendment  by  adding  thereto  the  words — 

"  And  all  counties  not  otherwise  provided  for." 

The  amendment  to  the  amendment  was 
not  agreed  to. 

The  amendment  was  adopted. 

On  motion  of  Mr.  PERKINS,  the  commit- 
tee rose  and  reported  to  the  Convention  the 
report  and  amendments,  with  a  recommend- 
ation that  the  amendments  be  conctured  in. 

The  amendments  of  the  committee  of  the 
Whole  were  severally  concurred  in,  without 
debate,  with  the  following  exceptions : 

The  sixth  amendment. — To  strike  out  from  the 
seventh  section  the  words,  '.'  until  the  Legislature 
shall  provide  by  law  for  filling  such  offices  respec- 
ively,  in  conformity  with  the  provisions  of  this 
Constitution,"  being  under  consideration. 

Mr.  PERKINS  said  : — It  seems  to  me  that 
the  committee  of  the  whole  Rusapprehended 
the  eflPect  of  striking  out  that  part  of  the 


section,  and  leaving  only  the  first  part,  which 
reads  as  follows : 

"  All  county,  precinct,  township  and  municipal 
officers  shall  continue  to  hold  their  respective 
offices,  unless  removed  by  competent  authority." 

Now  the  idea  we  should  convey  is  this: 
That  all  oflScers  in  office  at  the  time  of  oiu* 
transition  from  a  Territorial  to  a  State  Gov- 
ernment shall  hold  their  offices  by  competent 
authority,  or  untiKothers  are  elected  to  fill 
their  places. 

The  amendment  of  the  committee  was  not 
conciured  in. 

Mr.  PERKINS.  I  move  to  amend  that 
section  by  striking  out  the  words,  "shall 
continue  to  hold  their  respective  offices,"  and 
insert — 

"  Holding  their  respective  offices  at  the  time  of 
the  change  from  a  Territorial  to  a  State  Grovemi 
ment,  shall  continue  to  hold  the  same." 

The  amendment  was  not  agreed  to. 

Eleventh  Amendment. — Amend  the  ninth  section 
by  striking  out  the  following  words :  "Whereupon 
an  election  shall  be  held  for  Grovemor,  Lieutenant 
Governor,  Treasurer,  Attorney  General,  Auditor, 
Superintendent  of  Public  Instruction,  Members  of 
the  State  Legislature,  and  Members  of  Congress, 
and  such  other  officers  whose  elections  are  herein 

provided  for,  on  the day  of ,  and  no 

further  notice  of  such  election  shall  be  required." 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  hope  that  amendment 
will  not  be  concurred  in.  That  is  the  only 
section  which  makes  any  provision  for  the 
election  of  State  Officers. 

Mr.  BOBBINS.  If  that  part  of  the  sec- 
tion is  not  stricken  out,  the  election  will  take 
place  subsequent  to  the  adoption  of  the  Con- 
stitution. It  has  been  my  desire  that  the 
election  for  State  Cfficers  should  be  held  at 
the  same  time  the  people  vote  upon  the  adop- 
tion or  rejection  of  the  Constitution.  And 
especially  would  I  desire  to  have  it  so,  if 
there  is  but  one  Constitution  submitted  to  the 
people. 

The  amendment  was  not  concurred  in. 

And  then,  on  motion  of  Mr.  KING,  the 
Convention  took  a  recess  until  half  past  two 
o'clock. 

AFTERNOON  SESSION. 

The  Convention  re-assembled  at  half  past 
two  o'clock. 

SCHEDULE. 

The  Convention  resumed  the  consideration 


682 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Wednesd at,  August  19. 


of  the  amendments  recommended  by  the  com- 
mittee of  the  Whole,  to  the  report  on  the 
Schedule. 

The  amendment  to  add  to  the  eleventh 
section  the  words — 

"And  the  several  persons  so  declared  elected  to 
the  said  offices,  shall,  as  soon  as  practicable  there- 
after, take  and  subscribe  the  requiste  oath  of 
office,  before  any  officer  authorized  to  administer 
oaths,  which  said  oaths  of  office  shall  be  filed  in 
the  office  of  the  Secretary  of  the  State  ;  and  the 
said  persons  shall  immediately  thereafter  enter 
upon  the  duties  of  their  office  " 

— Being  the  next  in  order  for  consideration — 
Mr.  COLBURN  moved  to  amend  the  same 
by  striking  out  all  after  the  words,  "persons 
shall,"  and  insert — • 

"Enter  upon  their  duties  immediately  upon  the 
admission  of  Minnesota  into  the  Union  as  a  State." 

Mr.  C.  said:  If  I  understand  the  amend- 
ment recommended  by  the  committee  of  the 
Whole,  it  is  that  when  our  State  OflBcers  are 
elected  under  this  Constitution,  the  State 
Commissioner  is  to  announce  that  fact,  and 
that  as  soon  as  practicable  thereafter,  they 
are  to  take  their  oaths  of  oflBce  and  assume 
the  functions  of  officers  of  the  State  of  Min- 
nesota. Now  I  am  opposed  to  such  a  pro- 
vision. I  am  in  favor  of  their  assuming  the 
duties  of  their  offices  whenever  Minnesota  is 
recognized  as  a  State  by  Congress,  and  not 
before.  I  do  not  agree  with  some  gentlemen, 
that  we  become  a  State  in  fact,  the  moment 
our  Constitution  is  adopted,  whether  we  are 
recognized  by  Congress  or  not.  There  is 
something  more  to  be  done  before  we  are 
clothed  with  all  the  powers  of  a  State  Gov- 
ernment. The  Enabling  Act  provides  for  the 
election  of  delegates  to  frame  a  Constitution 
preparatory  to  our  admission  as  a  State.  W  e 
are  to  be  admitted  as  a  State  upon  certain 
conditions,  and  those  conditions  are  that  we 
shall  come  in,  in  accordance  with  the  Federal 
Constitution.  We  assume  that  we  have  com- 
plied with  every  condition  of  the  Enabling 
Act,  but  who  is  to  decide  that  question  ? 

We  are  not  the  final  arbiter.  The  Consti- 
tution of  the  United  States  requires  that  we 
shall  come  with  a  Republican  form  of  govern- 
ment. Congress  may  say  that  our  form  of 
government  is  not  Republican.  I  do  not 
presume  that  they  will  say  that,  but  they  may 
do  it.  Or  we  might  frame  a  government 
which  is  not  Republican,  and  if  wo  should, 


clearly  we  should  not  be  entitled  to  admission 
under  the  Enabling  Act.  Is  not  Congress  to 
examine  the  Constitution,  and  decide  that 
question  ? 

We  have  provided  that  our  State  officers 
shall  not  be  elected  at  the  time  the  people 
vote  upon  the  Constitution,  but  on  a  subse- 
quent day.  Suppose  the  Constitution  is 
adopted  and  we  go  on  and  elect  our  State 
officers.  Considerable  time  must  intervene 
between  the  adoption  of  the  Constitution  and 
the  election  and  qualification  of  State  officers. 
Now  if  gentlemen  are  correct  in  the  position 
they  assume,  we  shall  be  a  State  in  fact,  gov- 
erned by  Territorial  and  United  States  officers. 
Now  I  say  if  our  State  officers  are  to  assume 
their  duties  immediately  upon  the  adoption  of 
this  Constitution,  I  say  let  us  go  back,  and 
provide  for  their  election  at  the  time  the  Con- 
stitution is  adopted.  But  I  prefer  to  leave 
that  provision  as  it  is,  and  provide  that  the 
officers  shall  assume  their  duties  whenever 
the  State  is  recognized  by  Congress,  and 
when  we  are  admitted  into  the  Union  as  a 
State,  and  not  before.  I  hope  the  amendment 
to  the  amendment  will  be  adopted. 

Mr.  NORTH.  Mr.  President:  It  seems 
to  me  there  is  no  difficulty  in  meeting  the 
objections  to  a  sState  government  before  ad- 
mission. I  am  aware  that  there  are  difficult- 
ies in  the  minds  of  some  gentlemen  upon  the 
question.  Should  we  elect  a  Legislature,  and 
have  them  acting  as  a  State  Legislature  whilst 
we  are  making  application  for  admission, — 
would  their  laws,  passed  before  or  after  ad- 
mission, be  Territorial  or  State  laws  ?  What 
should  be  our  action?  Here  we  have  a  State 
Constitution — the  Constitution  we  suppose  to 
have  been  acted  upon  by  the  people — adopted 
as  the  Constitution  of  the  State.  Yet  there 
is  another  government — a  Territorial  govern- 
ment existing,  whilst  this  is  in  force— the 
Territorial  officers  holding  on,  right  over  the 
Constitution — two  governments  existing  at 
the  same  time. 

Now,  as  to  this,  the  language  of  the  Ena- 
bling Act  is  very  pfain  :  It  authorizes  us  to 
form  a  Constitution  and  establish  a  State 
government  preparatory  to  our  admission  into 
the  Union.  On  the  first  page,  it  is  enacted, 
after  the  description  of  the  boundaries,  that 
that  the  inhabitants  of  the  Territory  "be  and 
they  are  hereby  authorized  to  form  for  them- 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Wedxesday,  ArcrsT  19. 


533 


selves  a  Constitution" — that  is  one  thing; 
"and  State  government" — that  is  another 
thing — "by  the  name  of  the  State  of  Minne- 
sota, and  to  come  into  the  Union  on  an  equal 
footing  with  the  original  States,  according  to 
the  Federal  Constitution."  Now  it  seems  to 
me,  from  this  language,  that  we  should  have 
a  Constitution  and  State  government  before 
we  can  be  in  a  condition  to  come  into  the 
Union.  But,  if  we  come  in,  we  come  in  on 
a  level  with  the  original  States.  They  came 
into  the  Union  having  State  governments, 
therefore,  when  we  come  in,  we  should  have 
a  State  govemment.  If  we  come  in,  then  we 
come  in  as  a  State  govemment — not  in  a 
chrysalis  condition,  passing  from  a  Territorial 
to  a  State  form  of  existence.  It  seems  to  me, 
that  this  act  gives  us  complete  authority  to 
become  a  State,  in  order  to  our  application  for 
admission. 

Then  again,  on  the  third  page,  it  is  said,  if 
they  determine  to  have  a  State  govemment 
and  come  into  the  Union — "And  be  it  further 
"enacted,  that  in  the  event  said  Convention 
"  shall  decide  in  favor  of  the  immediate  ad- 
" mission  of  the.  proposed  State" — showing 
that  there  might  be  a  contingency  in  which 
they  would  not  do  so.  They  had  their  State 
Legislature,  meeting  and  acting  in  the  State 
of  Michigan,  and  they  continued  their  State 
government  for  some  time  before  their  ad- 
mission into  the  Union,  and  I  see  no  good 
reason  why  it  could  not  be  so  in  our  case — 
especiall}^,  since  the  Enabling  Act  is  so  clear 
upon  that  point. 

Several  members  calling  for  the  reading  of 
the  section,  as  proposed  to  be  amended,  it 
was  now  again  read  through. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  Mr.  Pbesident  :  I  hope 
the  amendment  to  the  amendment  will  not  be 
adopted,  although  perhaps  some  Umitation 
should  be  made.  It  is  true,  sir,  that  there 
have  been  two  minds  among  the  members  of 
this  Convention,  in  regard  to  the  right  and 
the  policy  of  organizing  the  State  govemment 
previous  to  the  admission  of  the  State  into 
the  Union ;  but  I  have  not  supposed  that  any 
gentleman  here  advocated  the  idea,  that,  if 
Congress,  from  any  factious  motive,  should 
refuse  us  admission  into  the  Union,  that  then 
we  have  done  entirely,  and  our  work  shall 
amount  to  nothing;  and  I  hope  such  a  senti- 
ment will  never  prevail  in  this  Convention. 


If  we  comply  with  the  terms  of  the  Enabling 
Act,  and  form  a  Constitution  which  the  people 
shall  ratify,  ai)d  then  make  our  application  to 
Congress  for  admission  into  the  Union — if 
our  application  should  be  refused,  I  for  one 
shall  not  be  willing  to  quietly  sit  down  under 
a  Territorial  govemment,  and  have  all  that  we 
have  done  pass  for  nothing.  And  that  would 
be  the  effect  of  the  amendment  of  the  gentle- 
man from  Fillmore  county — that  the  ofiBcers 
to  be  elected  to  form  the  State  government 
shall  not  go  into  office  until  after  the  State  has 
been  admitted  into  the  Union. 

"NVe  have  not  yet  fixed  the  time  of  holding 
these  elections.  The  time  may,  if  necessary 
be  postponed  till  November  or  January,  or 
still  later  than  January — until  we  may  have 
an  opportunity  to  see  what  action  Congress 
will  take.  I  wiU  not  object  to  such  a  post- 
ponement; but  I  do  object  most  strenuously 
to  inserting  a  provision  which  is  going  to  make 
the  Constitution  and  State  government  void, 
if  Congress  should  refuse  to  admit  us  into 
the  Union. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  Mr.  Pbesidest:  I  do  not 
know  but  the  amendment  might  be  made  so 
as  to  obviate  some  of  the  objections  of  the 
gentleman.  But  I  fail  yet  to  be  satisfied  that 
our  govemment  ought  to  assume  all  the  pre- 
rogatives of  a  State  Govemment,  before  we 
are  admitted  into  the  Union.  TVe  exist  as  a 
Territorial  govemment,  unquestionably,  until 
we  are  recognized  by  Congress. 

If  two  Constitutions  are  to  be  submitted, 
(and  we  have  no  right  now  to  assume  that 
there  will  not  be,)  it  is  quite  probable  that 
each  section  of  the  Territory  will  claim  to 
have  a  ratified  Constitution  ;  and  these  two 
Constitutions  will  imdoubtedly  go  before  Con- 
gress, each  section  claiming  to  be  admitted 
with  their  particular  Constitution.  Under 
this  state  of  things,  we  shall  be  delayed  in 
our  admission  into  the  Union.  Probably  we 
shall  be  delayed  for  a  long  time.  We  do  not 
know  how  long.  "We  may  have  to  wait 
months  and  even  years.  All  speculation  must 
be  at  fault  in  regard  to  the  time  we  may  be 
delayed.  But,  during  this  time,  these  Terri' 
torial  officers  are  not  going  to  give  up — they 
are  not  going  to  cease  exercising  the  functions 
of  their  commissions  under  the  Federal  Gov- 
emment. Suppose  we  go  on  and  organize  a 
State  Govemment,  complete  in  all  its  parts, 


534 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Wednesday,  August  19. 


what  are  we  going  to  do  ?  Are  we  going  to 
come  into  collision  with  the  general  govern- 
ment ?  I  apprehend  that  there  would  be  but 
one  government,  in  reality,  and  that  the  Ter- 
ritorial government  would  be  that  government, 
whilst  the  other  would  be  only  a  government 
in  form.  And  then  suppose  again,  another 
Constitution  adopted,  and  another  government 
formed.  Sir,  we  do  not  know  how  long  the 
conflict  would  be  protracted,  nor  how  far  it 
might  extend. 

I  believe,  sir,  that  a  just  regard  for  the  in- 
terests and  well  being  of  all  concerned 
would  lead  us,  by  all  means,  to  avoid  any  ac- 
tual collision  with  the  authority  of  the  gene- 
ral government ;  and  in  the  event  of  a  State 
organization,  unrecognized  by  Congress,  it 
seems  to  me  that  our  judicial  system  at  least, 
must  inevitably  come  into  conflict  with  the 
Territorial  judiciary. 

My  friend  from  Rice  county,  (Mr.  North,) 
supported  his  view,  by  reference  to  the  cir- 
cumstances of  the  admission  of  the  State  of 
Michigan.  But  the  circumstances  there  were 
.  entirely  diSerent  from  ours.  There  were  no 
two  conflicting  parties.  There  was  at  the 
time  perfect  harmony  between  the  Territorial 
and  State  governments.  Everything  was 
going  on  smoothly,  with  nothing  of  that  ar- 
dent and  persistent  struggling  for  power  which 
appears  in  the  Territory  of  Minnesota ;  and 
it  seems  to  me,  if  we  go  on,  regardless  of  the 
recognition  of  Congress,  we  shall  fall  into 
trouble,  not  easily  to  be  got  rid  ot. 

Then  in  regard  to  the  election  of  Represen- 
tatives in  the  Legislature,  Representatives  in 
Congress,  and  United  States  Senators.  These 
together  with  our  State  officers,  should  be 
elected,  that  they  may  be  able  to  assume  the 
duties  of  their  offices  the  moment  Congress 
shall  recognize  us  as  a  State.  Our  Federal 
representatives  might  be  elected,  and  in  Wash- 
ington, if  you  choose :  There  could  no  trou- 
ble grow  out  of  that.  I  do  not,  however, 
deem  it  necessary  that  we  should  actually 
elect  United  States  Senators  before  we  are 
admitted, — not  at  all.  For  if  that  were  abso- 
lutely necessary,  it  would  be  necessary  for  us 
to  hold  our  State  elections  at  the  time  of  the 
adoption  ol"  the  Constitution  ;  otherwise  our 
Senators  might  not  be  ready  to  take  their  seats 
at  once.  It  requires  time  to  organize  a  State 
government;  and  as  for  the  election  of  United 


States  Senators,  that  could  be  provided  for, 
even  if  the  State  were  to  be  admitted  imme- 
diately upon  presenting  the  Constitution.  I 
can  see  no  difficulty  arising  from  the  course 
proposed  in  ihe  amendment,  I  have  offered, 
and  I  think  I  can  see  very  serious  difficulties 
involved  in  the  other  course  of  procedure — a 
difficulty  similar  to  that  which  has  taken 
place  in  the  Territory  of  Kansas.  I  think  the 
organization  of  a  State  government  there,  was 
attempted  at  quite  too  early  a  day.  It  was 
a  serious  mistake  for  them  to  come  into  con- 
flict with  the  government  recognized  by  Con- 
gress. I  trust  that  we  shall  profit  by  their 
example,  and  avoid  the  difficulties  in  which 
they  have  involved  themselves. 

Mr.  PERKINS.  Mr.  Pkesident:  I  hope 
the  Convention  will  be  cautious  enough,  in 
adopting  this  Constitution,  not  to  come  into 
conflict  with  the  general  government ;  and  it 
seems  to  me  that  such  a  case  as  this  will  bring 
us  into  direct  conflict  with  the  authority  of 
Congress.  It  makes  us  liable  to  such  a  thing, 
to  say  the  least.  Now,  sir,  we  come  before 
Congress.  We  have  adopted  and  ratified  our 
Constitution  and  sent  it  there,  at  the  same 
time  giving  out  pretty  sti'ong  intimations  that, 
whether  Congress  admit  6s  or  not,  we,  are 
determined  to  set  up  for  ourselves.  It  seems 
to  me  that'  would  not  look  very  respectful, 
nor  would  it  be  very  apt  to  conciliate  Con- 
gress according  to  my  view.  I  am  not  so 
much  of  a  "  squatter  sovereign,"  myself  as  to 
think  about  getting  up  a  State  government  in 
opposition  to  the  authority  of  Congress,  and 
set  it  revolving.  I  am  not  so  much  of  a  squat- 
ter sovereign,  as  to  believe  it  best  imder  the 
pressure  of  present  circumstances,  to  do  any- 
thing of  the  kind. 

As  I  understand  the  case,  action  is  to  be 
had  on  the  part  of  Congress,  recognizing  us 
as  a  State.  We  are  authorized,  it  is  true,  to 
form  a  State  Constitution,  and  come  into  the 
Union  in  accordance  with  the  provisions  of 
the  Federal  Constitution;  and  one  of  those 
provisions  is,  that  Congress  shall  admit  us  as 
a  State. 

It  seems  to  me  that  Congress  must  deter- 
mine first,  whether  we  liave  a  Republican 
Constitution,  and  have  a  right  to  come  into 
the  Union.  It  does  not  seem  to  me  that  this 
Convention  or  the  people  of  MinnesoUi  arc 
tlie  only  party  to  decide  this  question — not  at 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Wednesday,  August  19. 


535 


all.  And,  as  it  has  been  intimated,  if  we 
should  disregard  the  will  of  Congress,  we 
shall  not  only  come  into  collision  Avith  the 
general  government,  but  have  on  our  hands  a 
kind  of  triangular  war  ^\-ith  our  political  ad- 
versaries, and  the  Territorial  authorities.  I 
think,  now,  it  is  veiy  probable  there  will  be 
two  Constitutions :  and  the  two  parties,  dis- 
tinctively claiming  the  State  Government,  if 
neither  should  be  admitted  by  Congress, 
might  both  set  up  independent  governments 
and  set  them  to  revolving.  There  would  be 
two  State  Governments  revolving  at  the 
same  time,  at  war  with  each  other,  and  with 
the  general  government.  It  seems  to  me 
that  would  be  a  very  disgraceful  state  of 
affairs,  and  that  it  would  be  a  very  incautious 
and  unwise  movement  for  us  to  take  any 
step  that  might  ^ead  us  into  such  a  difficulty. 
If  Congress  does  not  see  fit  to  admit  us, 
when  we  shall  have  complied  with  the  terms 
of  the  Enabling  Act — accepted  all  its  condi- 
tions in  a  Republican  Constitution  and  form 
of  government,  all  we  have  to  do  is  to  feel  like 
American  citizens  conscious  of  having  done 
our  duty,  and  wait  for  Congress  to  correct 
theu'  own  mistakes. 

Mr.  KING.  Mr.  Pbesidest:  it  is  unfor- 
tunate for  us,  that  these  gentlemen  have  not 
been  able  to  see  these  difficulties  a  little  soon- 
er. If  they  will  turn  back  the  pages  of  the 
report,  they  will  see  that  we  have  already  de- 
termined that  the  Legislature  shall  not  meet 
till  the  first  Thursday  in  January,  at  twelve 
o'clock  noon,  1858  ;  and  this  being  the  case, 
I  should  think  it  would  be  about  right,  if 
they  would  fix  their  amendments  so  as  to  al- 
low every  department  of  the  government  to 
go  into  operation,  and  all  the  officers  to  be 
qualified,  at  the  same  time. 

Mr.  HUDSON.  Mr.  President:  I  under- 
stand, by  the  language  of  the  Enabling  Act, 
that  the  people  of  Minnesota  are  authorized 
"  to  form  for  themselves  a  Constitution  and 
"  State  Government,"  and  that  they  are  also 
authorized  "  to  come  into  the  Union."  I  un- 
derstand, by  this  language,  that  Congress 
thereby  opens  the  door  and  authorizes  us  to 
come  in.  We  have  come  here  to  form  a 
Constitution  in  accordance  with  that  act. 
We  propose  to  make  for  ourselves  a  State 
government  according  to  that  act,  and  to  do 
everything  required  of  us  on  our  part  toward 


going  into  the  Union  according  to  that  act ; 
and  I  have  been  under  the  impression  through- 
out, that  it  was  our  wisdom  to  take  care  that 
no  act  of  ours  should  contradict  the  idea, 
that  we  are  to  do  here  just  precisely  what 
Congress  has  authorized,  in  order  that  we 
may  have  a  right  to  go  into  the  Union ;  and 
if  Congress,  after  all,  should  be  disposed  to 
say  to  us,  you  must  stay  out,  that  would  be 
a  matter  for  consideration  aflerwards.  I 
cannot  think  we  are  going  to  have  so  much 
trouble  as  gentlemen  imagine,  talking  about 
the  conflict  of  three  or  four  different  kinds  of 
government.  But,  if  such  a  thing  should 
happen,  it  will  certainly  make  it,  that  our 
State  will  be  a  great  place  to  get  office ;  and 
that  might  induce  a  larger  immigration  and 
increase  of  population,  which  would  be  at 
least  one  great  advantage. 

Mr.  BILLINGS  made  an  ineffectual  de- 
mand for  the  yeas  and  nays. 

Mr.  MORGAN.  Mr.  Pbesidest  :  I  would 
like  to  have  the  question  divided,  and  taken 
first  on  striking  out. 

The  PRESIDENT.  According  to  our 
Rules,  a  motion  to  strike  out  and  insert  is 
indivisible. 

The  amendment  to  the  amendment  was 
adopted  ; 

And  then,  the  amendment  as  amended  was 
rejected. 

Mr.  MORGAN  moved  to  amend  section 
thirteen  by  inserting  the  county  of  Crow 
Wing,  in  the  second  judicial  circuit,  that 
county  having  been  overlooked. 

The  amendment  was  agi-eed  to. 

Mr.  PECKHAM  moved  to  amend  the  sixth 
section,  by  adding  the  letter  "  s  "  to  the  word 
"  Commissioner,"  in  the  fourth  line,  and  by 
striking  out  all  between  the  word  "  House," 
in  the  fifth  line,  and  the  word  "the,"  in  the 
eighth  line,  and  inserting  the  following : 

"  The  first  named  of  the  said  Election  Commis- 
sioners, or  his  successor,  as  hereafter  provided, 
after  reading  a  list  of  the  Senators  elected  to  the 
members  assembled  in  the  Council  Chamber  of 
the  Capitol,  at  the  time  above  specified,  shall  call 
them  to  order,  and  act  as  presiding  officer,  until  a 
temporary  organization  shall  be  effected ;  and  the 
second  named  of  the  said  State  Election  Commis- 
sioners, or  his  successor,  after  reading  a  hst  of  the 
Representatives  elected  to  the  House  of  Represen- 
tatives, shall  call  them  to  order  and  act  as  a  presi- 
ding officer,  until  a  temporary  organization  shall 
be  effected  by  said  House." 


63S 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Wednesday,  August  19. 


The  amendment  was  agreed  to. 

Mr.  MORGAN  moved  to  amend  section 
ten,  by  inserting  the  county  of  Crow  Wing 
in  the  seventeenth  district. 

The  amendment  was  agreed  to. 

Mr.  KING  moved  to  amend  section  five  by 
striking  out  the  words,  "  now  "  and  "  their," 
in  the  first  line. 

The  amendment  was  agreed  to, 

Mr.  GERRISH  moved  to  amend  section 
ten,  page  eight,  fines  fourteen  and  fifteen,  by 
inserting  after  the  word  "  representatives " 
where  it  first  occurs  the  words,  "  and  two 
"  Senators,"  and  by  striking  out  all  after  the 
last  "  and,"  and  inserting,  "  one  Senator,"  so 
that  the  clause  shall  read — 

"  la  the  fifth  district,  the  county  of  Winona  shall 
elect  four  Representatives  and  two  Senators,  and 
the  county  of  Wabashaw  two  Representatives  and 
one  Senator." 

The  amendment  was  agreed  to. 

Mr.  NORTH  moved  to  amend  section  twelve 
by  taking  the  county  of  Rice  from  the  sec- 
ond congressional  district  and  placing  it  in  the 
first. 

The  amendment  was  agreed  to. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  move  to  amend  that 
part  of  section  ten  which  refers  to  the  second 
district,  by  striking  out  the  word  "four"  and 
inserting  "  six,"  so  that  it  shall  read — 

"  In  the  second  district,  the  county  of  Fillmore 
shall  elect  six  representatives  and  two  Senators." 

We  clam  a  population  for  Fillmore  County 
of  fifteen  thousand,  while  at  the  same  time 
we  are  allowed  only  the  same  number  of  rep- 
resentatives as  Winona,  which  only  claims 
ten  thousand  five  hundred. 

The  amendment  was  agreed  to. 

Mr.  MANTOR  moved  to  amend  that  part 
of  section  ten  which  relates  to  the  seventh 
district,  so  as  to  give  the  counties  of  Dodge 
and  Steele  two  representatives  each,  and  to- 
gether, one  senator. 

The  amendment  was  agreed  to. 

Mr.  KING  moved  to  amend  by  giving  the 
county  of  Olmsted,  which  constitutes  the 
sixth  district,  two  senators,  instead  of  one. 

The  amendment  was  not  agreed  to. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  move  to  amend  section 
thirteen  by  striking  out  the  county  of  Sibley 
from  the  third  judicial  circuit,  and  adding  it 
to  the  fourth.  As  the  section  now  stands 
there  are  eight  counties  in  the  third  judicial 


circuit,  each  of  which  are  well  settled,  and  in 
each  of  which  terms  of  court  are  now  held 
and  have  been.     There  are  three  circuits 
which  contain  a  less  number  of  counties  than 
this.     One  contains  three,  one  four,  and  one 
six  counties.     I  am  satisfied  that  there  are 
four  circuits  which  will  have  a  less  amount  of 
business  than  the  third.     If  the  change  I 
propose  is  made,  the  third  and  fourth  judicial 
circuit  will  each  contain  seven  counties. 
The  amendment  was  not  agreed  to. 
Mr.   MURPHY.     I  move  to  amend  that 
part  of  section  ten  which  refers  to  the  six- 
teenth and  seventeenth  districts  by  placing 
Todd  County  in  the  place  of  Sherburne,  and 
Sherburne  in  the  place  of  Todd  County. 
The  amendment  was  agreed  to. 
Mr.   NORTH   proposed,   after   the  word 
"  Constituuion,"  in  the  fourthjine  of  the  sixth 
section,  to  add  :  "  when  the  Register  of  Deeds 
"  in  their  respective  counties  shall  neglect  or 
"  refuse  to  act." 
The  amendment  was  agreed  to. 
Mr.  MILLS.     I  move  now  to  recommit  this 
report  to  the  select  committee  which  report- 
ed it. 

The  amendment  was  not  agreed  to. 
Mr.  MORGAN.     There  are  a  number  of 
blanks  yet  to  be  filled,  and  I  move  that  this 
report  be  laid  on  the  table  until  to-morrow. 
The  motion  was  lost. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  hope  this  report  will 
not  be  disposed  of  now.  We  have  made  no 
arrangement  for  ordering  the  election  of  of- 
ficers at  any  time,  nor  have  we  taken  any 
steps  towards  organizing  a  a  State  govern- 
ment. 

Mr.  HUDSON.  I  understand  that  these 
blanks  can  be  filled  up  at  the  third  reading 
of  the  report;  It  is  in  a  bad  shape  now,  and 
in  fact  we  hardly  know  in  what  shape  it  is,  so 
many  amendments  have  been  made.  I  am 
decidedly  in  favor  of  having  it  printed,  and 
then  we  can  perfect  it. 

The  report  was  then  perfected  by  filling 
various  blanks  with  names,  and  the  report,  as 
amended  was  ordered  to  be  engrossed  for  a 
third  reading. 

EXECUTIVE  DEPARTMENT, 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  move  that  report  num- 
ber two,  upon  the  Executive  Department,  be 
now  read  a  tliird  time  and  put  upon  its  pas- 
sage. 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Thtbsdat,  Arorsr  20. 


537 


The  motion  was  agreed  to. 

The  report  was  accordingly  read  a  third 
time. 

By  unanimous  consent,  section  nine  of  the 
report  which  related  to  the  veto  power  of  the 
Governor,  was  stricken  out,  the  same  ground 
being  covered  by  a  section  in  the  report  upon 
the  Legislative  Department 

The  report,  as  thus  amended  was  then 
passed. 

On  motion  of  Mr.  KING  (at  a  quarter  be- 
fore five  o'clock)  the  Convention  adjourned. 


THIRTY-FOURTH  DAY. 

Thcbsday,  August  20th,  1857. 
The  Convention  met  at  nine  o'clock,  a.  m. 
The  joiuTial  of  yesterday  was  read  and  ap- 
proved. 

RESOLCTIOX. 

Mr.  MILLS  offered  the  following  resolution : 
"  Eegolved,  That  upon  the  day  that  this  Consti- 
tution is  submitted  to  the  people  of  this  Territory 
for  its  adoption  or  rejection,  the  electors  of  the 
Territory  shall,  at  each  of  the  usual  places  of  hold- 
ing elections,  open  a  ballot  box  and  appoint  judges 
and  vote  for  the  permanent  location  of  the  Capital 
of  the  State  of  Minnesota;  and  the  city,  town  or 
village  having  the  largest  number  of  votes  shall 
be  the  permanent  Capital  of  said  State. 

"  And  le  it  further  JSeiolced,  That  the  aforesaid 
election  shall  be  held  and  governed  according  to 
the  provisions  of  the  Constitution." 

Mr.  HUDSON.  I  hope  we  shall  not  pass 
any  such  resolution.  I  am  decidedly  opposed 
to  imdertaking  to  establish  a  permanent  loca- 
tion of  the  Capital,  by  this  Convention. 

The  resolution  was  laid  over  one  day,  un- 
der the  rule. 

THTBD  BEADIKG  OP  KEPOBTS, 

On  motion  of  Mr.  MANTOR,  report  num- 
ber twenty,  on  the  "  Militia,"  was  taken  up, 
read  a  third  time  and  passed. 

On  motion  of  Mr.  BUTLER,  report  num- 
ber twelve,  on  "State  Officers  other  than  Ex- 
ecutive" was  taken  up,  read  a  third  time  and 
passed. 

STATE   SEAL,    &C. 

On  motion  of  Mr.  HAYDEN,  the  Conven- 
tion resolved  itself  into  a  committee  of  the 
Whole  (Mr.  Thompson  in  the  Chair)  upon  re- 
port number  seventeen,  "  on  Seal  and  Coat  of 
Arms." 
68 


The  substitute  reported  by  the  committee 
in  place  of  the  original  report,  was  read. 

Mr.  BILLINGS  moved  to  amend  by  strik- 
ing out  the  words  "  steamboat  ascending," 
and  inserting  "  canoe  descending." 

The  amendment  was  not  agreed  to. 

Mr.  BILLINGS.  If  the  gentlemen  d^ 
sire  to  retain  the  steamboat,  I  have  no  ob- 
jection, but  I  really  desire  to  have  a  cano» 
also.  I  therefore  move  to  insert ''  and  canoe" 
after  the  word  ''  steamboat." 

The  amendment  was  agreed  to. 

On  motion  of  Mr.  NORTH,  the  committee 
then  rose  and  reported  back  the  report  to  the 
Convention,  together  with  the  amendment, 
with  a  recommendation  that  the  amendment 
be  concurred  in. 

The  recommendation  of  the  committee  was 
concurred  in,  and  the  substitute,  as  amended, 
was  ordered  to  be  engrossed  for  a  third  read- 
ing. 

Mr.  Galbbaith  was  excused  from  further 
service  as  Chairman  of  the  committee  upon 
Miscellaneous  Provisions,  and  Mr.  Cleghobh 
was  appointed  in  his  stead. 

PBIXTISG  THE   CONSTITCnOS. 

Mr.  PECKHAM  offered  the  foUowing  reso- 
lution,  which,  giving  rise  to  debate,  was  laid 
over  under  the  rule,  viz : 

"  Resohid,  That  twenty  thousand  copies  of  the 
Constitution  that  may  be  adopted  by  this  Conven- 
tion, be  printed  in  pamphlet  form  for  general  dis- 
tribution." 

SCHEDtTiE. 

Mr.  MANTOR,  from  the  committee  on  ea- 
grossment,  reported  back  as  correctly  en- 
grossed, report  mmiber  twenty-foiu-,  on  the 
Schedule. 

And  then,  on  motion  of  Mr.  HAYDEN 
(at  ten  o'clock  and  thirty  minutes,)  the  Con- 
ventioa  took  a  recess  imtil  half-past  two. 

AFTERNOON  SESSION. 
The  Convention  re-assembled  at  half  past 
two  o'clock. 

THIED  BEAOIXG  OF  REPOBTS. 

On  motion  of  Mr.  BILLINGS,  report  num- 
ber twenty-three,  on  Public  Property,  was 
taken  up,  read  a  third  time  and  passed. 

On  motion  of  Mr.  HAYDEN,  report  num- 
ber sixteen,  on  Official  Salaries,  was  taken  up 
read  a  third  time  and  passed. 

SaSCELLAXEOCS   PBOVISIOKS. 

Mr.  CLEGHORN,  from  the  committee  on 


538 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Friday,  August  21. 


Miscellaneous  Provisions,  made  the  following 

report,  which  was  read  a  first  and  second 

time,  and  laid   upon  the  table  to  be  printed, 

viz: 

"Sec.  1.     The  political  jear  for  the  State  of 

innesota  shall  commence  on  the  first  Monday  of 

anuary  of  each  year. 

"Sec.  2.  All  persons  residing  upon  Indian 
Lands  within  any  county  in  this  State  or  persons 
residing  in  any  unorganized  county,  and  qualified 
to  exercise  the  right  of  suffrage  under  this  Con- 
stitution shall  be  entitled  to  vote  at  the  polls  which 
may  be  nearest  their  residence,  for  United  States, 
State,  or  County  oflScerg ;  Provided,  that  no  per- 
son shall  vote  for  county  officers  out  of  the  county 
in  which  he  resides. 

"  Sec.  3.  The  Legislature  may  declare  the  cases 
in  which  any  ofiBce  shall  be  deemed  vacant,  and 
also  the  manner  of  filling  the  vacancy  where  no 
provision  is  made  for  that  purpose  in  this  Consti- 
tution. 

"  Sec.  4.  No  person  convicted  of  any  infamous 
crime  in  any  court,  within  the  United  States,  and 
no  person  being  a  defaulter  to  the  United  States  or 
to  this  State  or  to  any  county  or  town  therein,  or 
to  any  State  or  Territory  within  the  United  States, 
shall  be  eligible  to  any  oflSce  of  trust,  profit  or 
honor  in  this  State. 

Sec.  5.  Members  of  the  Legislature,  and  all 
ofBcers,  executive  and  judicial,  shall,  before  they 
enter  upon  the  duties  of  their  respective  offices 
take  and  subscribe  the  following  oath  or  affirma- 
tion :  "  I  do  solemnly  swear,  (or  afiirm,)  that  I 
will  support  the  Constitution  of  the  United  States, 
and  the  Constitution  of  the  State  of  Minnesota, 
and  that  I  will  faithfully  discharge  the  duties  of  the 
office  of  according  to  the  best  of  my  ability.'' 

And  no  other  declaration  or  test  shall  be  required 
as  a  qualification  for  any  office  or  public  trust. 

"Sec.  6.  No  contract  of  marriage,  if  other- 
wise duly  made,  shall  be  invalidated  for  want  of 
conformity  to  requirements  of  any  religious  sect. 

".Sec.  7.  No  perpetuities  shall  be  allowed  ex- 
cept for  eleemosynary  purposes. 

"  Sec.  8.  Every  person  shall  be  disqualified 
from  holding  any  office  of  profit  in  thig  State  who 
shall  have  been  convicted  of  having  given  or 
offered  a  bribe  to  procure  his  election  or  appoint- 
ment. 

"  Sec.  9.  The  Seal  of  the  State  shall  be  kept 
by  the  Governor  or  person  administering  the  gov- 
ernment, and  used  by  him  officially,  and  shall  be 
called  the  Great  Seal  of  the  State  of  Minnesota. 

"  Sec.  10.  An  accurate  and  detailed  statement  of 
the  receipts  and  expenditures  of  the  public  money, 
the  several  amounts  paid,  to  whom,  and  on  what 
account,  shall  from  time  to  time  be  published  aa 
shall  be  prescribed  by  law. 

"Sec.  11.  There  may  bo  established  in  the 
Secretary  of  State's  office,  a  bureau  of  statistics. 


under  such  regulations  as  may  be  prescribed  by 
law. 

"  Sec.  12.  If  this  Constitution  shall  be  ratified 
by  the  people,  the  State  Election  Commissioners 
shall  forthwith,  after  having  ascertained  the  fact, 
issue  writs  of  election  to  the  several  County  Elec- 
tion Commissioners  of  the  several  counties  of  this 
State  for  the  election  of  all  the  officers,  the  time  of 
whose  election  is  fixed  by  this  Constitution,  and  it 
shall  be  the  duty  of  said  County  Election  Commis- 
sioners to  give  at  least  twenty  days  notice  of  the 
time  and  place  of  said  election,  in  the  manner  now 
prescribed  by  law. 

"Sec.  13.  No  navigable  stream  in  this  State 
shall  be  either  bridged  or  dammed  without  au- 
thority from  the  Board  of  Supervisors  of  the 
proper  county  under  the  provisions  of  law.  No 
such  law  shall  prejudice  the  right  of  individuals 
to  the  free  navigation  of  such  streams  or  preclude 
the  State  from  the  further  improvement  of  the 
navigation  of  such  stream. 

"Sec.  14.  Whenever  the  office  of  United  States 
Senator  shall  become  vacant  from  any  cause,  either 
by  expiration  of  term,  death,  resignation  or  other- 
wise, it  shall  be  the  duty  of  Governor,  or  person 
administering  the  government,  to  notify  the  Le- 
gislature at  their  first  session  thereafter,  and  on 
the  first  day  thereof  And  on  the  third  day  there- 
after the  members  of  the  Senate  shall  assemble  in 
the  Hall  of  Representatives  in  joint  convention, 
the  President  of  the  Senate  acting  as  presiding  of- 
ficer thereof,  and  they  shall  proceed  to  fill  said  va- 
cancy or  vacancies,  and  the  person  having  a  ma- 
jority of  all  the  ballots  cast  at  said  election  shall 
be  declared  duly  elected. 

"  Sec.  15.  There  shall  be  elected  in  each  judi- 
cial circuit  at  the  time  of  the  election  of  the  Judge 
of  said  circuit  two  Regents  of  the  University, 
whose  term  of  office  shall  be  the  same  as  that  of 
such  Judge.  The  Regents  thus  elected  shall  con- 
stitute the  Board  of  Regents  of  the  University  of 
Minnesota.  The  Regents  of  the  University,  and 
their  successors  in  office,  shall  continue  to  consti- 
tute the  body  corporate,  known  by  the  name  and 
title  of  '  The  Regents  of  the  University  of  Min- 
nesota.' " 

And  then,  on  motion  of  Mr.  ROBBJNS, 
the  Convention  adjourned. 


THIRTY-FIFTH   DAY. 

Friday,  August  21st,  1857. 
The  Convention  met  at  nine  o'clock,  a.  m. 
The  Journal  of  yesterday   was  read  and 
approved. 

LOCATION    OF   STATE    CAPITAL. 

Mr.  MILLS'  resolution,  offered  yesterday, 
with  reference  to  submitting  to  the  people  the 
question  of   the  permanent  location  of  the 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Friday,  August  21. 


539 


seat  of  government,  coming  up  in  order,  for 
consideration. 

Mr.  FOLSOM  submitted  the  following  sub- 
stitute : 

"  Resolved,  That  the  first  Legislature  of  this 
State  shall  make  provision  by  law  for  the  election 
of  five  State  Capital  Commissioners,  whose  duty 
it  shall  be  to  procure  the  title  to  six  hundred  and 
forty  acres  of  land,  as  near  the  geographical  cen- 
ter of  the  State  as  can  be  procured,  suitable  for 
the  erection  of  the  Capitol  buildings  and  other 
buildings  which  may  be  deemed  necessary  for  the 
future  use  of  the  State  ;  on  which  land,  when  lo- 
cated, shall  be  and  forever  remain  the  permanent 
Capitol  of  the  State  of  Minnesota." 

Mr.  STANNARD.  I  hope  the  substitute 
will  prevail.  As  it  is  fashionable  to  make 
capital  for  number  one,  I  do  not  see  why  the 
State  should  not  make  Capitol  also. 

Mr.  CLEGHORN  moved  that  the  resolu- 
tion and  substitute  be  laid  upon  the  table. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to. 

EXTRA   COPIES  OF   THE  CONSTITUTION. 

Mr.  PECKHAM'S  resolution  submitted 
yesterday,  for  printing  twenty  thousand  co- 
pies of  the  Constitution,  for  distribution  among 
the  people,  coming  up  in  order. 

Mr.  BILLINGS  said:  I  would  amend 
that  resolution,  by  adding  that  five  thousand 
should  be  printed  in  the  Norwegian,  five 
thousand  in  the  Sweedish,  and  five  thousand 
in  the  German  language.  If  we  are  to  pub- 
lish our  Constitution  at  all,  I  hope  it  will  be 
published  more  particularly  for  the  use  of 
foreigners,  rather  than  for  the  use  of  those 
who  have  the  means  and  facilities  of  obtaining 
it  in  the  newspapers,  and  learning  its  provis- 
ions by  conversation  with  others.  Foreigners 
generally  can  obtain  that  information  only  by 
having  it  published  in  their  own  language. 
The  copies  in  Sweedish  can  be  published  at 
Red  Wing ;  those  in  Norwegian,  at  Madison, 
Wisconsin ;  and  those  in  German,  in  this  city. 

Mr.  PECKHAM  accepted  the  amendment. 

Mr.  MORGAN.  I  would  suggest  that  the 
difference  between  the  Sweedish  and  Norwe- 
gian is  so  shght,  that  a  publication  in  the 
Sweedish  language  would  be  sufficient. 

Mr.  CEDERSTAM.  The  difference  be- 
tween the  t\vo  languages  is  not  very  great, 
yet  the  difference  is  so  considerable  that  the 
common  people  have  difficulty  in  reading 
both.  I  think,  therefore,][it  would  be  best  to 
publish  it  in  both  languages. 


Mr.  HAYDEN.  I  move  to  amend  by  in- 
serting, "  and  five  thousand  in  French." 

The  amendment  was  accepted  by  the 
mover,  and  the  resolution  as  amended  was 
adopted. 

Mr.  BILLINGS.  I  move  that  the  commit- 
tee on  Printing  he  instructed  to  procure  from 
the  hands  of  the  printers,  all  the  engrossed 
reports,  unpublished,  in  their  hands,  and  re- 
turn the  same  to  the  Convention. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to. 

Mr.  KING  moved  a  call  of  the  Convention, 
which  was  refused. 

Mr.  KING  moved  that  the  Convention  ad- 
journ, which  was  not  agreed  to. 

Mr.  THOMPSON.  I  renew  the  motion 
for  a  call  of  the  Convention. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to,  and  the  roll  be- 
ing called  the  following  m'embers  feiled  to 
answer  to  their  names  : 

Messrs.  Aldrich,  Ayer,  Baldwin,  Bates, 
CoGGSWELL,  Coombs,  Dickerson,  Foster,  Fol- 
sost,  Galbraith,  Hall,  Hudson,  Lowe,  Man- 
tor,  McCann,  McKune,  McClure,  Messer, 
Murphy,  Putnam,  Stannard,  Secombe,  Smith, 
Walker,  Winell,  and  Wilson. 

On  motion  of  Mr.  WATSON,  all  further 
proceedings  under  the  call  were  dispensed 
with. 

third  reading  of  reports. 

Mr.  KING.  I  move  that  the  Convention 
take  up  report  number  eighteen,  on  the  Judi- 
ciary, and  put  it  upon  its  third  reading. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to,^and  the  report 
was  taken  up  and  read  a  third  time  accor- 
dingly. 

On  motion  of  Mr.  COLBURN,  by  unani- 
mous consent,  the  last  clause  of  section 
eight,  as  follows,  was  stricken  out,  viz  .  "  All 
"judicial  decisions  shair  be  free  for  pubUca- 
"tion  by  any  person." 

The  report,  as  thus  amended,  was  passed. 

On  motion  of  Mr.  COLBURN,  report  num- 
ber twenty-one,  on  Taxation,  Finance  and 
Public  Debt  was  taken  up,  read  a  third  time 
and  passed. 

On  motion  of  Mr.  BILLINGS,  report  num- 
ber fifteen,  on  "  Amendments  and  Revision  of 
"  the  Constitution,"  was  taken  up  and  read 
a  third  time. 

By  unanimous  consent,  the  words,  "  ratify 
such,"  was  inserted  in  line  sixteen,  between 
the  words,  "and"  and  " amendment ;"  also 


540 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Fkidat,  August  21. 


the  word  "  such,"  in  the  eighteenth  line,  be- 
fore the  word  "  amendment." 

The  report,  as  thus  amended,  was  then 
passed. 

Mr.  BUTLER.  I  move  that  report  num- 
ber fourteen,  on  the  Elective  Franchise,  be 
taken  up,  read  a  third  time  and  put  upon  its 
passage. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to. 

The  report  was  accordingly  taken  up  and 
read  a  third  time. 

Mr.  BOLLES.     I  move  that  the  Conven- 
tion resolve  itself  into  a  committee  of  the 
Whole,  to  consider  this  report. 
vThe  motion  was  not  seconded. 

Mr.  BOLLES.  I  do  not  feel  disposed  to 
urge  anything  un  tasteful  upon  the  Conven- 
tion. I  wish  to  vote  for  this  report,  with  the 
exception  of  the  first  section ;  and  if  the  Con- 
vention compells  me  to  vote  upon  the  report 
as  a  whole,  I  shall  have  to  vote  against  it.  I 
cannot  vote  for  the  first  provision  of  the  bill. 
If  the  question  is  pressed  to  its  final  passage 
now,  I  shall  be  compelled  to  call  for  the  yeas 
and  nays. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  Before  the  report  is 
passed,  I  would  ask  the  Convention  to  change 
one  word  in  the  third  section.  As  it  now 
stands,  it  provides  for  punishing  a  person  for 
procuring  or  inducing  another  to  vote  ille- 
gally, while  he  may  himself  vote  illegally,  and 
escape  the  disability  imposed  by  that  section. 
I  propose  to  amend  that  part  of  the  section 
so  that  it  shall  read,  "  or  of  voting,  or  indu- 
"  cing  any  person  to  vote  illegally,  &c." 

Mr.  MORGAN.  I  think  we  are  going  too 
far  in  this  section,  either  way.  It  provides 
that  every  person  who  procures  another  per- 
son to  vote  illegally  shall  be  disfranchised.  I 
have  no  doubt  that  at  every  election  that 
thing  is  done,  and  innocently  done.  This  is 
rather  a  sweeping  piece  of  legislation.  If  it 
is  in  order,  I  would  move  to  strike  out  the 
whole  section. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  When  this  report  was 
under  consideration  in  committee  of  the 
Whole,  the  attention  of  the  committee  was 
almost  wholly  directed  to  another  clause  of 
the  report,  and  this  was  passed  over  without 
much  consideration.  For  the  purpose  of  hav- 
ing an  opportunity  to  re-arrange  this  section,  I 
would  move  that  the  Convention  resolve  itself 
into  a  committee  of  the  Whole  to  take  into 


consideration  this  section  of  the  report. 

Mr.  BOLLES.  I  hope  the  motion  will  in- 
clude the  entire  report. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  limited  the  extent  of 
my  motion  from  the  fact  that  that  part  of  the 
report  which  the  gentleman  from  Rice  desires 
to  re-consider,  has  been  thoroughly  consid- 
ered and  discussed,  and  I  am  satisfied  that 
there  is  no  general  desire  to  interfere  with  the 
disposition  which  has  been  made  of  that  sec- 
tion. It  is  well  known  that  my  views  corres- 
pond with  those  of  the  gentleman  from  Rice 
county,  but  I  am  not  disposed  to  re-open  that 
question  now. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to. 

The  Convention  accordingly  resolved  itself 
into  a  committee  of  the  Whole,  (Mr.  Bar- 
tholomew in  the  Chair,)  and  took  up  for  con- 
sideration the  third  section  of  the  report,  on 
the  Elective  Franchise. 

The  section  was  read  as  follows : 

'.'  Sec.  3.  No  person  shall  be  qualified  to  vote 
at  any  election  who  shall  be  convicted  of  treason 
— or  any  felony — or  of  voting,  or  attempting  to 
vote,  more  than  once  at  any  election — or  of  pro- 
curing or  inducing  any  person  to  vote  illegally  at 
any  election ;  Provided,  That  the  Governor  or  the 
Legislature  may  restore  any  such  person  to  civil 
rights." 

Mr.  MORGAN.  I  move  to  strike  out  the 
whole  section.  I  believe  it  is  unusual,  in  this 
connection,  to  introduce  such  a  section  as 
this.  I  have  never  seen  it  in  any  other  Con- 
stitution, and  it  certainly  is  a  very  sweeping 
piece  of  legislation,  and  a  matter  wholly 
within  the  province  of  the  Legislature.  This 
provision  is  certainly  a  very  stringent  one, 
and  difficult  of  application,  and  in  many  cases 
would  work  great  hardship. 

The  motion  was  not  agreed  to. 

Mr.  BUTLER.  I  move  to  amend  by  stri- 
king out  the  word  "  procuring,"  and  inserting 
"  voting." 

The  amendment  was  agreed  to. 

Mr.  BALCOMBE.  I  move  to  strike  out 
all  after  the  word  "  felony." 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  object  to  that,  for  the 
reason  that  it  would  cut  off  the  power  of  the 
Legislature  to  restore  civil  rights  to  any  per- 
son who  may  be  convicted  of  violating  the 
provisions  of  this  section. 

Mr.  MORGAN.  A  pardon  always  restores 
a  person  to  his  legal  civil  rights. 

Mr.  COLBURN.    That  is  usuaUy  the  cas* 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Friday,  Augcst  21. 


541 


under  the  laws  of  the  various  States ;  but 
where  there  is  a  Constitutional  provision,  that 
no  person  shall  vote  at  any  election  who 
shall  have  been  convicted  of  a  particular  of- 
fence, it  is  not  in  the  power  of  the  Legisla- 
ture or  Governor  to  restore  him. 

Mr.  MORGAN.  The  object  of  the  gentle- 
man from  Fillmore  can  be  attained  by  moving 
to  strike  out  all  after  "  felony,"  and  before 
"  provided." 

Mr.  BILLINGS.  I  move  to  amend  the 
amendment,  by  striking  out  the  word  "  any," 
in  the  second  line,  and  all  after  the  word 
"  felony,"  down  to  the  word  "  provided." 

The  amendment  to  the  amendment  was 
agreed  to,  and  then  the  amendment  as  amend- 
ed was  adopted. 

On  motion  of  Mr.  HARDING,  the  commit- 
tee rose  and  reported  to  the  Convention  the 
report  and  amendments,  with  a  recommenda- 
tion that  the  amendments  be  concurred  in. 

The  amendments  reported  by  the  commit- 
tee were  severally  concurred  in. 

The  question  then  recurred  upon  the  pas- 
sage of  the  report. 

Mr.  BILLINGS.  Mr.  President  :  I  do 
not  rise  to  offer  any  apology  for  the  vote  I 
shall  give  upon  the  final  passage  of  this  re- 
port. The  amendment  offered  in  committee 
of  the  Whole,  by  the  gentleman  from  Rice 
county,  (Mr.  North,)  which  proposed  to 
strike  out  the  word  "  white,"  in  section  one, 
met  my  cordial  approval,  and  would  have  re- 
ceived my  support  at  that  time,  had  I  not 
been  confined  to  my  room  by  severe  indispo- 
sition. A  large  majority  of  this  Convention, 
however,  refused  to  concur  in  the  amend- 
ment, consequently  the  original  report  of  the 
committee  has  come  down  to  us  unamended, 
and  we  are  now  asked  to  give  it  a  finishing 
stroke,  and  adopt  it  as  a  part  of  our  Constitu- 
tion— the  supreme  law  of  the  land.  I  have 
hitherto  had  the  pleasure  of  acting  with  the 
majority  of  this  body  upon  most  questions  of 
importance,  which  have  come  before  us  ;  and 
in  doing  so,  I  am  happy  to  say  my  pleasure 
and  my  duty,  have  been  united. 

I  am  not,  I  trust,  so  self-confident  or  so 
egotistical,  as  to  reject  without  due  and  careful 
consideration  the  arguments  of  honorable  gen- 
tlemen who  favor  the  passage  of  this  report. 
Yet  while  I  admire  their  eloquence,  and 
cheerfully  accord  to  them  that  superiority  of 


intellect  eminently  their  due,  I  must,  with 
becoming  deference,  say,  that  in  my  judg- 
ment the  article  as  it  now  stands  with  the 
word  "  white  "  retained,  is  anti- American, 
anti-Republican,  and  unfit  to  be  placed  in  the 
Constitution  of  a  people  who  are  or  deserve 
to  be  free. 

I  know  not  what  may  be  the  final  action  of 
this  Convention,  but  judging  from  the  past,  I 
fear  that  a  large  majority  of  this  body  are  in 
favor  of  the  report,  but  I  will  not  believe  it  until 
the  last  vote  is  taken.  I  am  not  prepared  to 
believe  that  of  the  fifty -nine  gentlemen  pres- 
ent— Minnesotians  by  adoption  and  by  pro- 
fession. Republicans,  also,  of  1857,  who 
have  before  this  altar  called  upon  Heaven  to 
witness  the  sincerity  of  their  intentions,  and 
have  sworn  faithfully  to  discharge  the  duties 
upon  which  they  have  entered — a  respectable 
number  will  be  found  finally,  who  are  \\-illing 
to  crush  out  the  only  feature  in  our  Constitu- 
tion that  marks  the  age  in  which  we  live,  and 
with  it  destroy  the  hopes  of  Freedom  in  our 
beloved  Territory ;  who  are  willing  to  disre- 
gard the  claims  of  humanity  and  justice ; 
who  are  willing  to  help  blast  the  hopes  of  our 
colored  population,  whose  hands  are  upraised 
to  them  for  protection.  I  say,  Mr.  Presi- 
dent, that  I  cannot  believe  a  respectable 
number  will  finally  be  found  ready  and  M-illing 
to  enter  upon  such  unholy  work  without 
reasonable  precedent  or  apology.  I  blush 
for  men  when  I  confess  that  the  history  of 
the  past  proves  that  Freedom  receives,  and 
has  received,  the  cruellest  stabs  in  the  house 
of  her  pretended  fi-iends. 

It  is  said  "  Negro  Suffrage  "  is  not  a  plank 
in  the  National  Republican  Platform.  Admit 
it.  But  does  it  follow  that  what  would  be 
an  impracticable  plank  in  a  national  plat- 
forn  of  party  principles,  is  an  impracticable 
plank  in  a  State  platform  of  a  party.  By  no 
means.  When  the  Republican  party  in  our 
our  sister  State  (Wisconsin)  inserted  as  a 
plank  in  its  platform,  "  that  the  Fugitive 
Slave  Law  shall  not  be  enforced  in  Wiscon- 
sin," did  it  inquire,  or  was  it  its  business  to 
inquire,  whether  this  had  been  incorporated 
in  the  national  platform  of  the  party?  Of 
course  not.  Refusing  to  catch  fugitive  slaves 
might  not  be  considered  orthodox  Republi- 
canism by  a  majority  of  the  delegates  to  a 
National  Convention,  but  it  was  and  is  » 


542 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Feid ay,  August  21. 


proper  subject  to  be  considered  upon,  either 
for  or  against,  by  any  State  Convention,  and 
the  action  of  such  Convention  would  be 
orthodox  Republicanism  in  and  for  said  State. 
Precisely  so  is  it  with  this  universal  suffrage 
question.  It  is  no  argument  against  it,  that 
party  platforms  have  hitherto  been  lacking  in 
such  a  plank.  Properly  the  question  should 
be  met  here  and  now.  We  are  organizing  a 
State,  the  first  one  organized  since  the  forma- 
tion of  the  Republican  Part3^  It  is  under- 
itood  that  our  party  in  this  Convention  is  in 
the  ascendant.  Our  preaching  has  been  here- 
tofore, "  Let  us  carry  out  the  doctrines  of 
"  the  Fathers  of  the  Republic  as  they  are 
"  promulgated  in  the  Declaration  of  Rights," 
and  now  when  the  opportunity  comes  to  us 
shall  not  our  preaching  and  our  practice  cor- 
respond ?  Policy  or  expediency  has  nothing 
to  do  with  the  question.  It  is  simply  this  : 
Shall  we  play  "  artful  dodges,"  or  act  like 
men.  The  first  course  may  perchance  win 
us  a  doubtful  victory,  the  last  will  preserve 
for  us  at  least,  what  is  better,  our  own  self- 
respect.  Disguise  it  as  you  may,  under  the 
sham  garb  of  party  policy,  the  fact  is  never- 
theless significant  and  plain,  that  by  this 
word  "  white  "  inserted  where  it  is  by  a  Re- 
publican Convention,  it  is  admitted  by  them 
that  the  Bill  of  Rights,  which  precedes  it,  is 
simply  "  losh"  hifaluten,  put  there  as  a  pre- 
face to  our  Constitution,  to  show  posterity 
that  we,  like  others,  have  learned  to  be  Janus- 
faced — to  pretend  to  a  goodness  we  have  not, 
and  whose  chiefest  motive  of  action  is  not 
principle,  but — spoils.  I  am  opposed  to  the 
whole  thing.  Let  us,  as  a  party,  free  our- 
selves from  such  just  and  merited  imputations, 
by  making  a  Constitution,  in  this  respect  at 
least,  in  accordance  with  the  genius  of  Chris- 
tianity and  humanity. 

Mr.  NORTH.  I  move  that  there  be  a  call 
of  the  Convention,  before  the  vote  is  taken. 

The  motion  was  not  agreed  to. 

The  question  was  then  taken  and  resulted, 
yeas  twenty-.six,  nays  .seven,  as  follows  : 

Yeas — Messrs.  Anderson,  Bartholomew,  Col- 
burn,  Coe,  Cederstam,  Duley,  Eschlie,  Gerrish, 
Hall,  Harding,  Hanson,  King,  Kemp,  Lyle,  Mor- 
gan, Mills,  North,  Phelps,  Perkins,  Peckhara,  Rob- 
bins,  Sheldon,  Thompson,  Vaughn,  Watson  and 
Mr.  President.— 26, 

^ay»— Messrs.  Billings,  BoUes,  Butler,  Clog- 
horn,  Uayden,  Holley  and  Metser.— 7. 


So  the  report  was  passed. 

Pending  the  call — 

Mr.  BOLLES  said : — Before  I  cast  my  vote 
I  desire  to  make  a  simple  explanation.  Con- 
sulting my  own  sense  of  justice  and  right  in 
this  matter,  I  shall  have  to  vote  in  the  nega- 
tive on  the  final  passage  of  this  report.  It 
will  be  remembered  that  upon  the  final  vote 
uporl  the  action  of  the  committee  of  the 
whole  on  this  subject,  I  was  unavoidably 
absent  on  account  of  sickness,  and  therefore 
had  not  an  opportunity  to  express  my  senti- 
ments upon  the  subject ; — sentiments  which 
are  entertained  in  common  by  my  constitu- 
ents and  myself.  My  convictions  are,  that 
we,  as  a  Convention,  have  made  a  sad  mis- 
take in  incorporating  the  word  "white"  into 
this  first  article,  and  acting  under  that  con- 
viction, I  consider  it  my  duty  to  myself  and 
my  constituents  to  record  my  vote  in  the 
negative  upon  this  final  vote,  and  I  accord- 
ingly vote  "No!" 

Mr.  BOBBINS  said:— I  voted  "aye"  with 
the  understanding  that  I  have  the  pledge  of 
the  Convention  that  the  final  decision  upon 
the  word  "  white  "  shall  be  left  to  the  peo- 
ple. 

Mr.  NORTH.  I  voted  with  the  same  un- 
derstanding that  the  gentleman  from  Olmsted 
(Mr.  RoBBiNs)  did,  upon  this  subject,  and  I 
suppose  it  is  taken  for  granted  that  the  con- 
sent of  this  Convention  is  unanimous  in  sub- 
mitting the  question  of  retaining  the  word 
"  white"  to  the  people. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  would  state  that  I 
vote  in  the  aflBrmative  for  the  reason  that  the 
question  of  striking  out  the  word  "white" 
has  once  been  fully  discussed  and  decided  by 
the  Convention ;  and  for  the  further  reason 
that  it  is  to  be  submitted  to  the  people  as  a 
separate  proposition.  My  views  upon  the 
matter  have  been  given  before,  and  I  do  not 
desire  to  make  any  factious  opposition  to  a 
thing  of  this  kind,  after  it  has  once  been  dis- 
po.sed  of 

On  motion  of  Mr.  BUTLER,  Report  num- 
ber thirteen,  on  Impeachment  and  Removal 
from  Office  was  taken  up,  read"a  third  time 
and  passed. 

And  then  on  motion  of  Mr.  ^MORGAN, 
tho  Convention  took  a  recess  until  half-past 
two  o'clock, 


MINNESOTA  CONYExSTION  DEBATES— Satcbdat,  Augcst  22. 


54? 


AFTERNOON  SESSION. 

The  Convention  re-assembled  at  half-past 
two  o'clock. 

The  roll  being  called,  no  quorum  answered 
to  their  names.  Other  members  subsequently 
coming  in, 

The  PRESIDENT  announced  that  there 
was  a  quorum  present. 

On  motion  of  Mr.  COLBURN,  the  Conven- 
tion resolved  itself  into  a  committee  of  the 
Whole  (Mr.  "Watsox  in  the  Chair)  to  take 
into  consideration  report  number  twenty-foiur 
on  the  Schedule,  and  after  some  time  spent 
therein,  the  committee  rose  and  reported  the 
same  back  to  the  Convention  with  a  recom- 
mendation that  the  same  be  concurred  in. 

Mr.  KING  moved  that  the  rules  be  so  far 
suspended  as  to  allow  the  report  to  be  read  a 
third  time  and  put  upon  its  passage. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to. 

The  question  being  on  the  final  passage  of 
the  report — 

Mr.  HARDING  mov^ed  that  the  same  be 
laid  upon  the  table. 

The  motion  was  not  agreed  to. 

And  then,  on  motion  of  Mr.  HARDING, 
the  Convention  adjourned. 


THIRTY-SIXTH  DAY. 

Satubdat,  August  22d,  1857. 

The  Convention  met  at  nine  o'clock,  a.  jt. 

The  Journal  of  yesterday  was  read  and  ap- 
proved. 

On  motion  of  Mr.  KING,  the  Convention 
resolved  itself  into  a  committee  of  the  "Whole, 
(Mr.  KiN'G  in  the  Chair),  to  take  into  consid- 
eration Report  No.  25,  "on  Miscellaneous 
Provisions." 

(For  Report,  see  proceedings  of  August 
20th.) 

The  Report  was  read  by  Sections  for 
amendment  and  consideration. 

"Skc.  2.  All  persons  residing  upon  Indian  lands 
within  any  county  in  this  State,  or  persons  resid- 
ing in  any  unorganized  county,  and  qualified  to 
exercise  the  right  of  suffrage  under  this  Constitu- 
tion, shall  be  entitled  to  vote  at  the  polls  which 
may  be  nearest  their  residence,  for  United  States, 
State,  or  County  OfiBcers ;  ProvicUd,  That  no  per- 
son shall  vote  for  county  officers  out  of  the  county 
in  which  he  resides." 

Mr.  MORGAN  moved  to  strike  out  section 
two. 


Mr.  COLBURN.  I  hope  it  will  not  be 
stricken  out.  There  are  a  great  many  persons 
living  in  our  Territory  for  whom  no  other  pro- 
vision is  made  for  voting. 

Mr.  MORGAN.  TTe  have  provided  in  the 
article  upon  the  Right  of  Suffrage  that  per- 
sons must  reside  ten  days  within  their  res- 
pective precincts  before  they  shall  be  entitled 
to  vote.  This  provision  that  persons  living 
in  unorganized  counties  may  vote  in  organized 
counties,  is  exceedingly  loose.  The  number 
of  persons  this  provision  would  cover  is  ex- 
ceedingly small.  Every  organized  county 
will  have  voting  precincts  all  over  them,  so 
that  no  person  will  be  deprived  of  voting  in 
such  counties,  while  in  unorganized  counties, 
precincts  may  be  found. 

Another  thing;  the  section  provides  that 
such  persons  shall  not  vote  for  county  oflBcers 
out  of  the  county  in  which  they  reside,  while 
it  does  not  prohibit  them  from  voting  for 
members  of  the  Legislature  out  of  the  legisla- 
tive district  in  which  they  reside.  There  is 
as  much  necessity  for  prohibition  in  the  one 
case  as  in  the  other. 

The  motion  to  strike  out  was  not  agreed  to. 

Mr.  BOLLES  moved  to  amend  by  adding 
after  the  word  "provided"  the  words  "that 
"  this  shall  not  interfere  with  any  other  provis- 
"ions  of  this  Constitution." 

Mr.  MORGAN.  That  would  be  a  singtilar 
provision,  and  would  seem  to  indicate  that  we 
did  not  know  what  we  had  provided  for  in 
the  Constitution. 

Mr.  BOLLES.  It  is  true  that  I  do  not 
know  fully  what  provisions  are  in  the  article 
refen-ed  to  a  short  time  since,  by  the  gentle- 
man from  Hennepin,  (Mr.  Mobga>-),  from  the 
fact  that  I  have  not  been  able  to  get  hold  of 
a  copy  of  that  report.  But  I  withdraw  my 
amendment  for  the  present. 

Mr.  MORGAN.  I  move  to  amend  by  ad- 
ding to  the  section  the  words  "  or  for  mem- 
"bers  of  the  Legislature  out  of  the  legislative 
"district  in -which  he  resides." 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  move  to  amend  the 
amendment,  by  adding  thereto,  "Nor  for 
"Judges  of  the  Supreme  or  Circuit  Court  out 
"of  the  district  or  circuit  in  which  he  may  re- 
"  side." 

Mr.  MORGAN  accepted  the  amendment, 

Mr.  BALCOMBE.  I  do  not  see  the  necess- 
ity for  the  amendments,  nor  do  I  see  the  ne- 


au 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Satukdat,  August  22. 


cessity  for  inserting  a  section  of  this  charac- 
ter in  the  Constitution  at  all.  All  the  terri- 
tory within  the  proposed  limits  of  the  State 
is  included  within  some  county,  and  there 
will  be  precincts  organized  in  those  counties, 
and  voters  will  have  the  privilege  of  voting 
for  State  oiBcers  anywhere  within  the  limits 
of  the  proposed  State,  and  for  Representatives 
and  Senators  anywhere  within  the  represen- 
tative and  senatorial  districts  in  which  that 
portion  of  the  Territory  in  which  they  reside  is 
included,  without  any  provision  of  this  char- 
acter, and  whether  he  happen  to  reside  on  an 
Indian  reservation  or  not. 

Mr.  DULEY.  I  am  decidedly  in  favor  of 
striking  out  the  section,  and  I  move  to  recon- 
sider the  vote  by  which  the  Convention  refus- 
ed to  strike  it  out. 

The  CHAIRMAN.  The  motion  is  out  of 
order,  as  there  is  already  a  motion  before  the 
Committee. 

The  amendment  to  the  amendment  was  not 
agreed  to,  and  the  amendment  was  disagreed 
to. 

* '  Sec.  3.  The  Legislature  may  declare  the  cases 
in  which  any  office  shall  be  deemed  vacant,  and 
also  the  manner  of  filling  the  vacancy  where  no 
provision  is  made  for  that  purpose  in  this  Consti- 
tution." 

Mr.  MORGAN.    I  move  to  strike  out  that 
section. 
The  motion  was  agreed  to. 

"  Sec.  4.  No  person  convicted  of  any  infamous 
crime,  in  any  court,  within  the  United  States,  and 
no  person  being  a  defaulter  to  the  United  States 
or  to  this  State,  or  to  any  county  or  town  therein, 
or  to  any  state  or  territory  within  the  United 
States,  shall  be  eligible  to  any  office  of  trust,  profit 
or  honor  in  this  State." 

Mr.  MORGAN.  I  move  to  strike  out  that 
section. 

Mr.  CLEGHORN.  I  hope  not,  for  I  think 
it  is  of  great  importance  that  we  should  have 
honest  men  in  office  in  this  Territory. 

Mr.  MORGAN.  Persons  have  sometimes 
been  convicted  of  infamous  crimes  when  they 
have  been  wholly  innocent,  and  the  communi- 
ty have  become  satisfied  that  they  were  inno- 
cent. Now  under  this  provision  such  persons 
could  not  hold  office  in  our  State. 

As  regards  defaulters,  the  question  of  being 
such  or  not,  is  generally  a  mooted  question. 
Persons  are  sometimes  charged  with  being  de- 
faulters where  it  is  only  a  matter  of  dispute 


as  to  the  allowance  of  their  accounts.  This 
is  so  in  nine  cases  out  of  ten  where  persons 
are  charged  with  being  defaulters.  Under 
such  a  state  of  facts  this  provision  is  exceed- 
ingly loose.  I  think  the  matter  should  be 
left  entirely  with  the  Legislature. 

Mr.  CLEGHORN.  If  the  gentleman  will 
read  the  section  he  will  see  that  a  person 
must  be  convicted  in  court  of  crime,  or  of 
being  a  defaulter,  before  he  becomes  disquali- 
fied. 

The  motion  was  not  agreed  to. 

"  Sec.  6.  No  contract  of  marriage,  if  otherwise 
duly  made  shall  be  invalidated  for  want  of  con- 
formity to  requirements  of  any  religious  sect." 

Mr.  MORGAN.  I  move  to  strike  out  sec- 
tion sixth.  The  section  is  wholly  unneces- 
sary. Marriage  has  been  decided  by  all  the 
courts  of  this  country,  to  be  a  civil  contract, 
and  has  no  dependence  upon  the  religious 
forms  of  any  sect  whatever.  Any  person 
authorized  to  perform  the  ceremony  of  mar- 
riage may  perform  it  in  any  manner  he 
chooses. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to. 

"Sec.  7.  No  perpetuities  shall  be  allowed  ex- 
cept for  eleemosynary  purposes. 

Mr.  COLBURN.    I  move  to  strike  out  that 
section. 
The  motion  was  agreed  to. 

"  Sec.  10.  An  accurate  rnd  detailed  statement 
of  the  receipts  and  expenditures  of  the  public 
money,  the  several  amounts  paid,  to  whom,  and 
on  what  account,  shall  from  time  to  time  be  pub- 
lished as  shall  be  prescribed  by  law." 

Mr.  PECKH  AM.     I  move  to  strike  out  that 
section. 
The  motion  was  agreed  to. 

"  Skc.  11.  There  may  be  established  in  the  Sec- 
retary of  State's  office,  a  bureau  of  statistics,  un- 
der such  regulations  as  may  be  prescribed  by  law. 

Mr.  MORGAN.  I  move  to  strike  out  that 
section.  It  gives  no  authority  to  tlie  Legisla- 
ture beyond  what  they  would  possess  under 
the  Constitution  in  any  event,  and  it  may  be 
found  very  convenient  to  establish  a  bureau 
in  some  other  department  than  that  of  Sec- 
retary of  State,  and  therefore  it  should  be  left 
to  the  Legislature.  It  simply  says  the  Legis- 
lature "may  establish,"  while  the  Legislature 
has  the  power  to  establish,  without  this  pro- 
vision. 

Mr.  PERKINS.    I  think  the  word  "  may" 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Satcbday,  August  22. 


545 


would  be  construed  to  mean  "  shall."  If  so, 
we  better  leave  it  discretionary  with  the  Leg- 
islature, and  strike  out  the  section. 

The  motion  to  strike  out  was  agreed  to. 

"  Sec.  V2.  If  this  Constitution  shall  be  ratified 
by  the  people,  the  State  Election  Commissioners 
shall  forthwith,  after  having  ascertained  the  fact, 
issue  writs  of  election  to  the  several  County  Elec- 
tion Commissioners  of  the  several  counties  of  this 
State  for  the  election  of  all  the  oflBcers  the  time  of 
whose  election  is  fixed  by  this  Constitution,  and  it 
shall  be  tlie  duty  of  said  County  Election  Com- 
missioners to  give  at  least  twenty  days  notice  of 
the  time  and  place  of  said  election,  in  the  manner 
now  prescribed  by  law." 

Mr.  PERKINS.  I  move  to  strike  out  that 
section.  I  do  not  think  anything  of  that  kind 
should  be  found  in  this  place.  It  should  be 
in  ths  Schedule. 

Mr.  CLEGHORX.  There  is  nothing  of 
this  kind  in  the  schedule. 

Mr.  PERKINS.  It  certainly  should  be  m 
the  Schedule,  for  the  provision  is  exhausted 
after  the  first  election,  and  there  will  be  no 
use  for  it  after  that. 

Mr.  MORGAN.  There  is  another  difficulty. 
The  last  clause  says,  "  it  shall  be  the  duty  of 
"said  County  Election  Commissioners  to  give 
"  at  least  twenty  days  notice  of  the  time  and 
"  place  of  said  election,  in  the  manner  now 
"  prescribed  by  law."  Now  the  manner  pre- 
scribed by  law  is  that  the  Register  of  Deeds  and 
Judges  of  Probates  shall  issue  writs  of  elec- 
tion. Those  officers  in  all  the  counties  might 
not  be  willing  to  perform  that  duty. 

The  motion  to  strike  out  was  lost. 

"  Sec.  13.  Xo  navigable  stream  in  this  Stale 
shall  be  either  bridged  or  dammed  without  author- 
ity from  the  board  of  Supervisors  of  the  proper 
county  under  the  provisions  of  law.  Xo  such 
law  shall  prejudice  the  right  of  individuals  to 
the  free  navigation  of  such  streams,  or  preclude 
the  State  from  the  further  improvement  of  the 
navigation  of  such  stream." 

Mr.  MORGAN.  It  seems  to  me  that  that 
section  is  entirely  unnecessary.  The  ground 
is  covered  by  the  first  section  of  the  article 
upon  Public  Property. 

Mr.  CLEGHORN.  I  move  to  amend  by 
inserting  between  the  words  "  of"  and  "  Su- 
pervisors" the  words  "  County  Commissioners 
or." 

The  amendment  was  agreed  to. 

Mr.  MORGAN.  I  move  to  strike  out  the 
whole  section.  I  do  not  think  it  should  be 
69 


left  to  the  Supervisors  or  Commissioners  of 
one  county  to  determine  what  should  be  de- 
termined by  the  ^\-hole  State. 
The  motion  was  agreed  to. 

"  Sec.  14.  Whenever  the  office  of  United  States 
Senator  shall  become  vacant  from  any  cause, 
either  by  expiration  of  term,  death,  resignation 
or  otherwise,  it  shall  be  the  duty  of  the  Governor, 
or  person  administering  the  government,  to  notify 
the  Legislature  at  their  first  session  thereafter,  and 
on  the  first  day  thereof.  And  on  the  third  day 
thereafter  the  members  of  the  Senate  shall  assem- 
ble in  the  Hall  of  Representatives  in  joint  Con- 
vention, the  President  of  the  Senate  acting  as  pre- 
siding officer  thereof,  and  they  shall  proceed  to 
fill  said  vacancy  or  vacancies,  and  the  person  hav- 
ing a  majority  of  all  the  ballots  cast  at  said  elec- 
tion shall  be  declared  duly  elected." 

Mr.  MORGAN.  I  would  inquu-e  of  the 
committee  whether,  under  this  section,  the 
Legislature  would  have  the  power  to  elect  a 
Senator  after  the  third  day  ? 

Mr.  CLEGHORN.  I  would  say  that  we 
drew  up  this  report  somewhat  in  a  hurry. 
TVe  were  aware  that  something  of  this  kind 
was  required  in  the  Constitution,  and  if  it 
needs  amendments,  I  hope  they  will  be  made. 

Mr.  BALCOMBE.  There  are  some  diffi- 
culties in  the  election  of  United  States  Sen- 
ators which  I  should  like  to  see  obviated,  but 
I  cannot  think  of  any  way  of  meeting  those 
exigencies  by  an  article  in  the  Constitution. 
According  to  the  provisions  of  the  Constitu- 
tion of  the  United  States  whenever  a  vacancy 
occurs,  the  Governor  is  to  appoint  to  fill  the 
vacancy  until  the  Legislature  fills  it.  You 
cannot  fix  now  upon  any  time  when  the  Leois- 
lature  shall  fill  it,  because  you  do  not  know 
when  the  Legislature  will  be  organized  and 
ready.  If  you  fix  upon  a  particular  day,  the 
Legislature  may  not  be  then  organized,  and 
the  day  having  passed  by,  the  Legislature 
would  not,  under  this  article,  have  the  power 
to  elect  a  senator  during  that  session. 

I  move  to  strike  out  the  section. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to. 

Mr.  HA YDEN.  Some  provision  similar  to 
the  one  which  has  just  been  stricken  out 
should  be  incorporated  in  this  report,  and  in 
order  that  it  may  be  referred  back  to  the  com- 
mittee for  the  purpose  of  iraming  such  an 
article,  I  move  that  th«  committee  rise  and 
report  back  the  report  to  the  Convention. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  do  not  know  whether 
a  provision  can  be  framed  to  meet  all  the  ex- 


546 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Satckday,  August  22. 


igencies  of  the  case.  In  many  States  the 
matter  is  left  where  the  Constitution  of  the 
United  States  leaves  it.  Most  of  the  States 
leave  it  with  the  Legislatures  to  prescribe  the 
manner  in  which  senators  shall  be  elected, 
whether  by  joint  Convention,  or  by  the  con- 
currence of  the  two  Houses  separately.  I 
think  it  would  be  difficult  to  frame  an  article 
to  meet  all  the  difficulties  which  gentlemen 
would  like  to  obviate.  Under  the  Constitu- 
tion of  the  United  States,  it  would  seem  that 
while  the  Governor  has  power  to  appoint  a 
person  to  fill  a  vacancy  until  the  meeting  of 
the  Legislature,  yet  if  the  Legislature  should 
fail  to  elect  a  United  States  Senator,  the  pow- 
er of  the  Governor  then  ceases.  The  Consti- 
tution makes  no  provision  for  an  appointment 
after  the  meeting  of  the  Legislature.  We 
might  incorporate  some  provision  in  our  Con- 
stitution giving  the  Governor  power  to  ap- 
point if  the  Legislature  should  fail  to  fill  the 
vacancy  at  its  next  session,  because  the  Con- 
stitution of  the  United  States  does  not  pro- 
hibit us  from  making  a  provision  of  that 
kind. 

I  have  no  particular  objection  to  recom- 
mitting the  report  to  the  committee,  but  I 
have  great  doubts  as  to  the  propriety  of  put- 
ting into  the  Constitution,  a  clause  prescribing 
the  precise  manner  in  which,  and  the  time 
when.  United  States  Senators  shall  be  elected. 
Mr.  MORGAN.  The  Constitution  of  the 
United  States  does  not  confer  upon  the  Gov- 
ernor the  power  to  appoint  longer  than  till  the 
next  session  of  the  Legislature,  nor  do  I  think 
that  the  Legislature  of  any  State  can  confer 
upon  him  such  power.  Had  they  that  power, 
I  think  it  would  have  been  exercised  before 
this  time.  I  think  if  we  should  insert  any 
such  clause  in  our  organic  law,  it  would  be 
deemed  an  infringement  of  the  Constitution  of 
the  United  States. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  1  am  aware  that  that 
is  a  controverted  point,  and  one  upon  which 
able  men  have  differed. 

The  motion  that  the  cmnmittee  rise  was 
not  agreed  to. 

"  Sec.  15.  There  shall  be  elected  in  each  judi- 
cial circuit  at  the  time  of  the  electionof  the  Judge 
of  said  circuit,  two  Regents  of  the  University, 
whose  term  of  office  shall  be  the  same  as  that  of 
such  Judge.  The  Regents  thus  elected  shall  con- 
stitute the  Board  of  Regents  of  the  University  of 
Minnesota.    The  Regents  of  the  University,  and 


their  successors  in  office  shall  continue  to  consti- 
tute the  body  corporate,  known  by  the  name  and 
title  of  '  the  Regents  of  the  University  of  Minne- 
sota.' " 

Mr.  MORGAN.  I  move  to  strike  out  that 
section.  When  this  matter  of  the  University 
was  last  before  the  Convention,  I  believe  it 
was  understood  that  the  whole  matter  was 
to  be  left  to  the  Legislature.  There  is  now, 
under  the  Territorial  Lnw,  a  Board  of  twelve 
Regents,  part  of  whom  hold  office  one  year, 
part  two  years,  and  part  three  years.  This 
section  provides  that  they  shall  hold  office  six 
years.  The  Regents  are  now  chosen  by  the 
legislature — four  of  them  at  every  session. 
The  legislature  is  the  better  body  for  choos- 
ing officers  of  this  kind,  and  it  is  desirable 
that  the  office  should  be'^kept  out  of  the  politi- 
cal arena.  If  chosen  in  the  judicial  circuits, 
the  matter  will  be  mixed  up  with  politics,  and 
I  do  not  think  as  good  selections  will  be  made 
in  that  way. 

Mr.  BALCOMBE.  I  hope  the  section  will 
not  be  stricken  out.  I  am  in  favor  of  the 
election  of  the  Regents  of  the  University  by 
the  people,  in  preference  to  the  Legislature. 
In  the  first  place,  when  they  are  elected  by 
the  Legislature,  as  a  general  rule,  they  have 
been  elected  from  those  residing  at  the  seat  of 
government,  or  within  a  few  miles  around  the 
seat  of  government.  Now  this  is  a  matter  in 
which  all  portions  of  the  Territory  are,  and 
should  be  as  much  interested  as  that  portion 
immediately  around  St.  Paul,  or  immediately 
around  the  institution  itself.  Notwithstand- 
ing the  fact  that  more  than  half  the  popula- 
tion of  this  Territory  lies  south  of  St.  Paul, 
there  is  but  one  Regent  out  of  twelve  who 
resides  south  of  this  city.  I  think  the  control 
of  the  University  fund  should  be  put  into  the 
hands  of  all  portions  of  the  Territory  alike. 

I  think  the  gentleman  is  mistaken  as  to  the 
tin\e  for  which  the  Regents  are  elected.  1 
believe  they  are  all  elected  for  a  six  years 
term.  This  section  then,  does  not  change  the 
term  of  office,  but  only  the  mode  of  their 
election.  I  think  the  mode  proposed  is  Tair 
and  reasonable.  I  think  that  those  who 
would  be  nominated  by  the  Convention  would 
be  quite  as  well  qualified  as  tho.se  elected  by 
some  lobbying  Legislature.  Lobby  influence 
has  heretofore  had  much  to  do  with  tliis  mat- 
ter, in  the  same  way  as  in  the  election  of 
'  other  officers. 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Saturday,  August  22. 


547 


Mr.  MORGAN.  As  my  motion  was  made 
partly  out  of  respect  to  the  present  Board  of 
Regents,  I  withdraw  it. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  move  to  amend  the 
section  by  adding  thereto  the  words  "and 
"  the  said  University  of  Minnesota  is  hereby 
"  declared  to  be  the  State  University." 

Mr.  BALCOMBE.  That  is  but  a  repetition 
of  the  terms  which  immediately  precede  his 
amendment. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  think  not.  There  has 
been  no  provision  whatever  in  the  Constitu- 
tion for  a  University.  Here  is  a  section  which 
the  Committee  have  refused  to  strike  out, 
which  pi'oposes  to  alter  the  present  plan  of 
electing  the  Regents  of  the  University  of 
Minnesota,  which,  as  it  exists  at  present,  is 
the  University  of  the  Territory  of  Minnesota. 
If  it  is  thought  desirable  that  this  Convention 
should  introduce  a  section  providing  for  the 
election  of  the  Regents  of  the  University  and 
changing  the  plan  that  has  already  been  pro- 
vided by  the  Territory,  it  seems  to  me  it  is 
proper  that  it  should  be  provided  that  that 
University  shall  be  the  State  University  of 
Minnesota.  The  Convention  should  either  do 
that  or  let  it  alone  entirelJ^ 

The  University  of  Minnesota,  as  it  exists 
under  the  act  of  incorporation,  is  an  institu- 
tion under  the  name  and  style  of  the  "  Uni- 
versity of  Minnesota,"  and  whenever  that 
terra  is  used,  it  means  that  identical  institu- 
tion, and  no  other.  The  University  of  Min- 
nesota is  an  existence  at  this  time,  and  when- 
ever those  words  are  used,  that  particular 
corporation  is  meant.  Now  it  is  proposed  by 
this  section  that  the  Constitution  shall  make 
a  change  in  the  particular  arrangement  of  that 
institution. 

Mr.  BALCOMBE.  Merely  in  the  election 
of  oflBcers,  and  no  other. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  A  very  material  change 
in  the  regulations  of  that  institution.  Now  I 
ask  what  this  Convention,  or  this  Constitution 
has  to  do  with  that  institution,  unless  it  pro- 
poses to  adopt  it,  as  the  State  institution  ?  If 
they  do  not  propose  to  do  that,  they  have  no 
right  to  meddle  or  interfere  with  it  in  the  least. 
They  have  no  more  right  to  do  it  than  any 
body  of  men  in  the  streets.  If  they,  how- 
ever, adopt  that  institution  as  the  State  Univer- 
sity of  Minnesota,  they  have  the  right  to  do 
so,  and  to  provide  the  regulations  heretofore 


existing,  or  additional  regulations.  I  do  not 
think  it  peculiarly  desirable  to  make  this 
change  in  the  manner  of  electing  Regents,  but 
I  do  not  object  to  it  provided  this  Convention 
adopt  that  institution  as  the  State  Institution 
of  Minnesota. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  am  opposed  to  this  sec- 
tion entirely.  I  am  opposed  to  it,  first,  be- 
cause the  subject  was  once  thoroughly  dis- 
cussed, and  we  agreed  to  leave  it  exactly 
where  the  Territorial  Legislature  and  the  En- 
abling Act  have  left  it,  and  I  am  in  favor  of 
adhering  to  that  decision.  I  am  opposed  to 
it,  in  the  second  place,  on  account  of  the  man- 
ner in  which  it  is  proposed  to  elect  these  Re- 
gents. They  are  to  be  elected  in  each  judi- 
cial circuit,  at  the  same  time  and  for  the  same 
term,  as  the  judges  of  those  circuits.  Then 
we  have  the  whole  number  of  Regents  elected 
at  the  same  time ;  commencing  their  oflSces 
at  the  same  time ;  and  their  ofiSces  expiring  at 
the  same  time.  If  elected  by  the  people,  I 
desire  to  have  them  classified  so  as  to  have  a 
part  of  their  offices  expire  every  two  years. 
But  T  prefer  to  leave  the  whole  matter  where 
we  once  before  determined  to  leave  it. 

Mr.  FOLSOM.  1  am  very  much  in  favor 
of  the  permanent  location  of  that  institution. 
If  we  are  going  to  take  any  legislative  action 
into  our  hands,  I  am  in  favor  of  giving  it  a 
pennanent  location.  I  oflFer  a  substitute  for 
the  section  as  follows : 

"  The  first  Legislature  of  the  State  of  Minnesota 
shall  make  provision  by  law  for  the  permanent 
location  of  the  University  of  Minnesota — and  the 
government  of  the  same." 

Mr.  BALCOMBE.  Mr.  Chaikman  :  I  am 
sorry  to  see  a  disposition  to  go  back  again 
into  this  discussion.  I  hope  the  gentlemen 
will  withdraw  their  amendments.  We  have 
discussed  the  subject  sufficiently,  and  it  has 
been  decided,  and  decided  too,  against  my 
ideas  of  propriety. 

The  CHAIRMAN.  Perhaps  the  gentle- 
man had  better  hear  the  amendments  read 
before  he  proceeds. 

The  section  as  proposed  to  be  amended  was 
read  through  by  the  Chairman. 

Mr.  BALCOMBE.  The  same  subject  mat- 
ter, Mr.  Chairman,  has  been  once  voted  down 
by  this  body.  It  has  been  thorougl  ly  dis- 
cussed, and  the  Convention  have  decided 
against  the  insertion  of  such  an  article  in  our 


548 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Satueday,  August  22. 


Constitution ;  and  I  cannot  see  any  reason 
now  for  bringing  up  the  discussion  again  upon 
this  section,  which  merely  proyides  for  the 
election  of  the  Regents  of  the  University  by 
the  people — that  all  the  people  shall  have  the 
control  of  the  University  fund,  instead  of  a 
few  persons  near  the  Capitol.  I  think  this  is 
a  matter  in  which  all  the  people  of  the  Terri- 
tory are  interested,  and  should  have  a  voice ; 
and,  as  I  said  before,  under  the  present  sys- 
tem of  appointment  of  the  Regents,  heretofore 
there  has  been  one  region  of  the  Territory 
that  has  had  comparatively  no  voice  in  it. 
More  than  half  the  people  of  this  Territory 
live  south  of  the  city  of  St.  Paul,  and  there 
has  yet  been  only  one  of  these  twelve  Regents 
selected  residing  in  that  south  half;  the  bal- 
ance have  resided  in,  and  within  a  few  miles 
around  this  city. 

This  question,  sir,  has  nothing  to  do  with 
the  location  of  the  Institution,  nor  with  any 
grant  of  land  which  has  been  made  to  it ;  but 
it  is  a  proposition  simply  providing  for  the 
election  of  the  Regents  of  the  State  Universi- 
ty. There  is  no  necessity  for  using  the  word 
"State"  in  order  to  make  it  the  State  Uni- 
versity. It  becomes  so  as  a  matter  of  course ; 
still  I  have  no  objection  to  using  the  word, 
and  it  could  be  inserted  in  the  fifth  line,  before 
the  word  "  Minnesota."  But  I  find  this  same 
thing  in  the  Constitution  of  the  State  of 
Michigan,  providing  for  the  election  of  the 
Regents  of  their  University;  and  they  did 
not  think  it  expedient  to  put  in  the  word 
" State."     I  will  read  the  provision: 

"  Section  6.  There  shall  be  elected  in  each  Ju- 
dicial Circuit,  at  the  same  time  of  the  election  of 
the  Judge  of  such  circuit,  a  Regent  of  the  Uni- 
versity, whose  term  of  ortice  shall  be  the  same  as 
that  of  such  Judge.  The  Regents  thus  elected 
shall  constitute  the  IJoard  of  Regents  of  the  Uni- 
ver.sity  of  Michigan." 

Their  University  became  the  State  Univer- 
sity, as  a  matter  of  course.  But,  as  I  said 
before,  I  have  no  objection  to  the  use  of  the 
word.  It  will  not  have  any  bearing,  one  way 
or  another,  on  either  the  grant  of  land  or  the 
location,  by  prejudicing  the  location  of  the 
Institution,  or  producing  any  effect  whatever 
on  any  future  grant  of  land.  '  It  merely  pro- 
vides for  the  election  of  the  Regents,  in  the 
same  manner  that  wc  have  provided  for  the 
election  of  Judges  and  other  State  officers. 

A.s  I  said  before,  sir,  1  am  anxious  to  hare 


this  section  adopted,  although  it  will  throw 
me  out  of  the  Regency.  It  is  a  good  element 
in  the  Constitution — it  is  a  guarantee  for  the 
security  of  the  University  fund,  provided  for 
by  giving  the  control  of  it  to  the  people.  Let 
the  whole  people  of  the  Territory  have  a  voice 
in  this  matter,  and  not  merely  that  portion  of 
the  people  who  may  reside  in  the  vicinity  of 
the  seat  of  government.  Let  us  have  some 
voice  in  this  matter  in  southern  Minnesota. 
Let  us  have  an  equal  chance  in  the  manage- 
ment of  the  affairs  of  this  Institution,  in 
which  we  all  feel  an  equal  interest. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  Mr.  Chairman:  I  am 
surprised  that  the  gentleman  from  Winona 
should  seem  to  complain  that  this  discussion 
has  been  forced  upon  the  Convention  by  the 
friends  of  the  present  location  of  the  Univer- 
sity. This  report  was  made  by  those  who 
never  voted  for  the  present  location ;  and  it 
proposes  in  this  Constitution  to  take  away 
from  the  University  certain  rights  which  the 
Institution  should  possess  under  the  State 
government.  Here  is  a  proposition,  that  this 
Convention  shall  change  the  manner  of  elect- 
ing the  Regents,  and  at  tTie  same  time  refuses 
to  recognize  the  Institution  as  the  State  Uni- 
versity and  recipient  of  the  land  grants  of 
Congi-ess.  I  repeat,  sir,  this  section  was  not 
brought  forward  by  the  friends  of  the  Uni- 
versity ;  on  the  other  hand,  the  motion  was 
made  by  my  friend  and  colleague,  the  gentle- 
man from  Hennepin  [Mr.  Morgan]  to  strike 
it  out. 

The  gentleman  from  Winona  says  he  is  in 
favor  of  the  section,  although  it  will  throw 
him  out  of  office.  But  now,  sir,  I  deny  that 
this  Convention  have  any  right  to  throw  him 
out  of  office.  They  can  have  nothing  to  do  with 
the  Institution,  nor  vdth  its  officers,  unless 
they  make  it  the  child  of  their  adoption.  If 
they  recognize  and  establish  it  as  the  Univer- 
sity of  the  State  of  Minnesota,  they  then 
acquire  a  control  over  it,  but  not  otherwise. 
They  may  pass  as  inan}'^  sections  as  they 
please,  but  unless  they  will  invest  the  Insti- 
tution with  those  certain  privileges  which  it 
is  in  theu'  power  to  do,  they  had  as  well  let  it 
alone.  And  what  I  ask  is,  that  they  should 
let  it  alone,  or  do  justice  by  it,  and  establish 
it  as  the  University  of  Minnesota,  and  the 
beneficiary  of  the  grants  of  lands  to  it,  as 
such. 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Saturday,  August  22. 


549 


Mr.  BALCOMBE.  Mr.  Chaibman  :  I  have 
charged  it  upon  him,  and  I  do  now  again 
charge  it  upon  the  gentleman  from  St.  An- 
thony, that  he  exhibits  an  undue  sensitiveness 
upon  this  subject,  which  involves  an  interest 
not  exclusively  his  own — not  exclusively  rep- 
resented here  by  himself  and  his  friends. 
The  moment  a  section  is  reported  here  for  the 
election  of  the  Regents,  they  have  to  open  the 
whole  subject  about  the  recognition  of  the 
University  as  a  State  Institution.  I  say 
again,  sir,  this  section  has  nothing  to  do  with 
these  questions  at  all,  they  have  no  connec- 
tion whatever  with  the  election  of  Regents, 
and  the  gentleman  forces  their  consideration 
upon  the  Convention,  in  order  to  arouse  feel- 
ing. There  is  really  no  ^occasion  for  sensi- 
tiveness— nor  need  for  any  gtntleman  to  be 
afraid  of  this  section ;  for  it  will  neither  con- 
firm the  location,  nor  recognize  the  Institution 
as  a  State  Institution.  And  on  the  other 
hand,  there  is  no  reason  for  gentlemen  on  the 
other  side  to  fear,  that  it  will  recognize  the 
Institution  as  the  State  University,  and  es- 
tablish its  location. 

It  is  simply  a  provision,  that  the  people  shall 
hereafter  elect  the  Regents  of  the  University. 
What  objection  can  gentlemen  have  to  this  ? 
I  can  see  no  other  ground  of  fear  than  this  :' 
that,  if  the  Regents  were  elected  by  the  peo- 
ple, the  immediate  locality  which  the  gentle- 
man represents  may  not  get  quite  as  large  a 
representation  in  the  Board  of  Regents  as  they 
now  have.  That  is  the  only  reason  which  I 
can  perceive  for  the  gentleman's  opposition  ; 
and  I  think  now  the  only  object  in  introducing 
his  amendment,  is  simply  to  secure  somebody 
on  the  other  side,  and  induce  them  to  vote 
against  the  section,  for  fear  it -may  confirm 
the  location  of  the  University  at  St.  Anthony, 
Mr.  SECOMBE.  Mr.  Chairman  :  the  gen- 
tleman from  Winona  has  presented  a  very 
singular  argument.  He  says  he  is  in  favor 
of  the  election  of  the  Regents  by  the  people 
of  the  several  judicial  circuits,  so  that  southern 
Minnesota,  which  contains  two-thlxds  of  the 
population  of  the  State,  may  be  justly  rep- 
resented in  the  Board — thereby  imparting  to 
the  people  of  southern  Minnesota  the  weak- 
ness, or  the  misfortune  of  sending  men  to  the 
Legislature,  heretofore  without  the  ability  or 
the  will,  to  resist  the  blandishments  and  bri- 
beries of  the  people  of  St.  Anthony  ! — men 


coming  here,  representing  two-thirds  of  the 
people,  and  bartering  and  trifling  with  their 
interests  in  this  way  ! 

Mr.  BILLINGS  (interrupting.)  Mr.  Chair- 
man :  I  rise  to  a  question  of  order.  I  would 
inquire  whether  the  gentleman  has  a  right  to 
speak  more  than  twice  on  the  same  subject. 

The  CHAIRMAN.  The  rule  does  not  ap- 
ply in  committee  of  the  "Whole. 

Mr.  SECOMBE  (resuming.)  When  gen- 
lemen  find  that  they  can  not  get  me  down 
under  the  rule,  I  hope  they  will  keep  their 
seats.  It  was  but  the  other  day,  that  gen- 
tlemen on  the  opposite  side  of  this  question, 
in  this  same  spirit,  exercised  this  privilege 
against  me,  and  refused  to  allow  me  even  to 
read  a  proposition  for  information.  But  we 
are  now  in  committee  of  the  Whole,  and  they 
will  have  to  wait  for  theu-  snap-judgment  tDl 
some  other  occasions  oflfers. 

As  I  have  said  before,  sir,  I  am  not  opposed 
to  the  election  of  these  Regents  by  the  peo- 
ple ;  although  I  do  not  think  it  the  best  way. 
I  think  the  manner  of  their  election  as  at 
present  provided  by  law,  is  better ;  and,  as 
gentlemen  may  not  know  what  the  law  is,  I 
will  read  it.  It  is  in  the  Revised  Statutes, 
section  five,  chapter  twenty-eight : 

"The  members  of  the  Board  of  Regents  shall 
be  elected  at  the  present  session  of  the  Legislature 
and  shall  be  divided  into  classes  numbers  one,  two 
and  three.  Class  number  one  shall  hold  their 
office  for  two  years ;  class  number  two  for  four 
years ;  and  class  number  three,  for  six  years  from 
the  first  Monday  of  February  1851;  biennially 
thereafter  there  shall  be  elected  in  joint  Conven- 
tion of  both  branches  of  the  Legislature  four  mem- 
bers to  supply  the  vacancies  made  by  the  provis- 
ions of  this  section,  and  who  shall  hold  their  ofiice 
for  six  years  respectively." 

Now,  the  proposed  section  does  not  change 
the  term  of  the  office  at  all.  They  hold  for 
six  years  now.  But  it  is  proposed  to  change 
the  manner  of  their  election  ;  to  take  it  from 
the  joint  Convention  of  both  branches  of  the 
Legislature,  and  give  it  to  the  six  Judicial 
Circuits.  There  are,  at  present,  according  to 
the  judiciary  article,  six  Judicial  Circuits, 
which  would  give  twice  that  number  of  Re- 
gents. But  then  we  have  a  proposition  to  in- 
crease the  Circuits  to  twelve;  and  in  that 
event  we  would  have  twenty-four  Regents. 
Therefore  the  section  is  not  merely  a  propo- 
sition to  change  the  manner  of  the  election  of 
the  Regents,  but  to  change  theirnumber  als». 


660 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Saturday,  August  22. 


Still,  I  do  not  object,  if  the  Convention  will 
put  themselves  into  a  position  upon  this  sub- 
ject, that  will  give  them  a  right  to  meddle  in 
the  aflfairs  of  the  University.  If  the  Conven- 
tion will  come  forward,  as  I  think  it  would  be 
very  proper  and  right  for  them  to  do,  and  de- 
clare that  the  present  University  shall  be 
adopted  as  the  State  University ,  then  they 
will  have  one  undoubted  right  to  impose  any 
reasonable  and  proper  change  upon  the  Uni- 
versity, and  the  Institution  will  be  bound  to 
accept  it. 

This,  Mr.  Chairman,  is  what  I  contend 
for ;  and  I  will  say  again,  that  I  cannot  but 
think  the  people  of  Southern  Minnesota  will 
not  be  very  thankful  to  the  gentleman  for  the 
imputation,  that  they  have  been  sending  in- 
competent and  unworthy  men  here  to  repre- 
sent their  rights  in  the  Legislature. 

Mr.  FOLSOM.  Mr.  Chairmax  :  I  should 
not  have  introduced  my  amendment,  but  for 
my  desire  to  secure  the  donations  of  land  to 
the  University.  I  am  in  favor,  for  one,  of 
securing  for  it  the  most  ample  endowment, 
and  making  it  an  institution  of  the  very  first 
class.  I  have  consulted  no  one  in  what  I 
have  done.  I  repeat,  that  I  am  in  favor  of 
some  permanent  location  of  the  institution. 
I  do  not  desire  the  recurrence  of  these  use- 
less discussions  and  agitations  of  the  ques- 
tion of  removal.  We  want  this  institution 
built  upon  a  firm  basis,  which  cannot  be 
moved  ;  and  if  our  friends  in  Southern  Min- 
nesota will  protect  and  cherish  it,  and  take 
care  of  its  interests  better  than  they  of  the 
centre,  I  am  perfectly  willing  to  go  with 
them  for  its  location  there,  and  for  its  perma- 
nent location;  so  as  to  have  done  with  all 
this  strife  about  its  removal  from  St.  Anthony 
to  Hastings,  Wauseca,  Winona,  or  whereso- 
ever. I  want  the  thing  permanent  and  fixed 
never  subject  to  removal  for  the  accommo- 
dation of  local  interests,  as  the  seat  of  gov- 
ernment of  the  State  of  Iowa  has  been  for 
the  last  several  years.  I  am  in  favor,  also, 
of  the  election  of  the  Regents  by  the  people ; 
and  still  more  democratic,  I  would  be  in  fa- 
vor of  allowing  the  Legislature  to  pass  the 
laws  on  that  subject.  But  I  am  decidedly  in 
favor  of  some  provision  being  adopted  by  this 
Convention,  which  shall  secure  the  most  per- 
manent location  of  the  institution. 
Mr.  BALCOMBE.    Mr.  Chairman  :  It  is 


well  known  to  every  member  of  this  Conven- 
tion, that  Avhen  that  question  was  before  us, 
I  was  in  favor  of  the  present  location  of  the 
University — of  putting  an  article  into  the 
Constitution  which  would  locate  the  institu- 
tion permanently  at  St.  Anthony,  and  so  put- 
ting it  out  of  the  reach  of  legislation.  I  be- 
lieved that  was  right  and  best,  and  I  voted 
accordingly ;  but  a  majority  of  the  Conven- 
tion believed  and  voted  otherwise.  I  advo- 
cated the  proposition  for  tying  up  the  Univer- 
sity at  St.  Anthony  ;  and  the  same  proposi- 
tion which  the  gentleman  from  St.  Anthony 
has  offered  now,  was  offered  then  as  an 
amendment,  and  voted  down — 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  think  not,  Mr.  Chair- 
man ;  no  amendment  has  been  brought  for- 
ward for  such  a  purpose. 

Mr.  BALCOMBE.  If  my  recollection 
serves  me  aright,  there  was  an  amendment 
referring  the  location  to  the  first  Legislature. 
I  may  be  mistaken. 
Mr.  FOLSOM.  It  was  talked  of. 
Mr.  BALCOMBE.  Very  well ;  be  that  as 
it  may  ;  I  now  say,  as  a  matter  of  course,  I 
am  opposed  to  any  further  agitation  of  the 
subject  here,  especially  under  the  circum- 
stances— having  but  a  limited  time,  and  much 
need  of  harmony — I  think  it  would  be  very 
unwise  to  continue  this  discussion.  In  fact, 
I  have  been  opposed  to  its  discussion  at  any 
time,  since  the  disposition  was  manifested  to 
leave  the  matter  to  go  over  to  future  legisla- 
tion. Then  let  us  not  emban-ass  the  subject. 
Let  them  have  full  sweep ;  and  let  us  all 
have  an  opportunity  there. 

Mr.  PECKHAM.  Mr.  Chairman  :  Is  it 
in  order  now  to  offer  an  amendment  ? 

The  CHAIRMAN.  The  Chair  will  re- 
ceive it. 

Mr.  PECKHAM.  I  submit  the  following, 
by  way  of  substitute  for  the  fifleenth  section 
and  amendments  : 

"There  shall  be  a  Board  of  Public  Instruction, 
for  the  control  of  the  University  of  Minnesota, 
and  for  the  general  supervision  of  the  public 
schools  of  the  State.  There  shall  be  elected  in 
each  judicial  circuit  at  the  time  of  the  election  of 
the  Judge  of  said  circuit,  two  members  of  the  said 
Board  of  Public  Instruction,  whose  term  of  office 
shall  be  the  same  as  that  of  such  Judge.  The.Su- 
perintendant  of  Public  Instruction  shall  be  ex- 
officio  a  member  of  the  Board  of  Public  Instruc- 
tion, and  shall  be  Secretary  of  said  Board." 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Monday,  August  24. 


551 


It  seems  to  me,  Mr.  Chaibmax,  as  a  very 
important  thing,  that  the  University  and  the 
school  fund  should  be,  as  far  as  possible,  im- 
der  the  control  of  one  Board  of  Public  In- 
struction ;  and  that  we  should  have  a  system 
of  instruction  for  the  State  extending  from 
the  common  schools  up  to  the  University ; 
and  the  design  of  the  amendment  is,  to  have 
but  one  Board,  and  that  they  sliall  have  the 
whole  matter  under  their  general  supervision. 
It  is  not  my  desire  at  this  time  to  go  into  any 
argument. 

The  substitute  was  rejected. 

The  question  was  then  taken  on  Mr.  Fol- 
som's  amendment,  and  it  was  also  rejected. 

The  question  now  being  upon  the  adoption 
of  Mr.  Secombe's  amendment — 

Mr.  MAXTOR.  Mr.  Chairman:  I  pro- 
pose the  following  amendment  to  the  amend- 
ment: 

Add  these  words :  "  And  the  said  Uni- 
*'  versity  shall  be  established  at  Mantorville, 
"  in  Dodge  county."     (Laughter.) 

The  amendment  to  the  amendment  was 
rejected ;  and  the  question  recurring  again  on 
the  adoption  of  Mr.  Secombe's  amendment, 
it  was  also  rejected. 

On  motion  of  Mr.  KEMP,  the  Committee 
now  rose,  and  the  Chairman  reported  £he 
amendments  to  the  Convention,  with  a  recom- 
mendation that  the  same  do  pass. 

On  motion  of  Mr.  COLBURN,  the  Conven- 
tion took  a  recess  till  half-past  two  o'clock. 

AFTERNOON  SESSION. 
The  Convention  assembled  at  half  past  two 
o'clock,  and  thereupon  adjourned  until  Mon- 
day, the  24th  inst. 


THIRTY-SEVENTH   DAY. 

MoxDAY,  August  24, 1857. 
The  Convention  met  at  nine  o'clock,  a.  m. 
Prayer  by  the  Chaplain,  Rev.  E.  D.  Neill. 
The  journal  of  yesterday  was  read  and 
approved. 

jaSCELLAXEOUS   PROVISIONS. 

Under  the  order  of  unfinished  business  the 
Convention  took  up  for  consideration  Report 
No.  25,  on  Miscellaneous  Provisions,  the  ques- 
tion being  on  concurring  in  the  amendments 
made  by  the  Committee  of  the  Whole. 


The  several  amendments  recommended  by 
the  Conmiittee  of  the  Whole  were  concurred 
in,  except  the  fourth  amendment  to  strike  out 
section  ten,  which  was  non-concurred  in. 

Mr.  LYLE.  ■  As  the  amendments  recom- 
mended by  the  jCommittee  are  disposed  of^  I 
oflfer  the  following  additional  section — 

"Institutions  for  the  benefit  of  those  inhabitants 
who  are  deaf,  dumb,  blind  or  insane  shall  always 
be  fostered  and  sustained  by  legislative  enact- 
ments." 

I  think  it  very  important  that  some  provi- 
sion should  be  made  for  the  benefit  of  those 
afiiicted  inhabitants  of  our  incoming  State. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  The  amendment  is  in- 
definite. "  Shall  be  fostered  and  sustained" 
are  words  capable  of  great  latitude  of  con- 
struction. 

The  amendment  was  agreed  to. 

Mr.  BUTLER  ofiered  the  foUowing  addi- 
tional section —  x  ' 

"The  powers  of  the  government  of  Minnesota 
shall  be  divided  into  three  separate  departments, 
the  Legislative,  Executive  and  Judicial;  and  no 
person  charged  with  the  exercise  of  powers  prop- 
erly belonging  to  one  of  those  departments,  shall 
exercise  any  function  appertaining  to  either  of  the 
others,  except  in  such  cases  as  are  directed  or  per- 
mitted by  this  Constitution." 

The  amendment  was  agreed  to. 

Mr.  KING  oflfered  the  fdlowing  additional 
section — 

"  At  the  same  time  this  Constitution  is  submit- 
ted to  the  people  for  their  adoption  or  rejection  a 
separate  proposition  shall  be  submitted  upon  the 
same  ballot  to  the  electors  of  this  State  for  adop- 
tion or  rejection  in  manner  following,  viz : — "  Free 
suffrage;  Yes:"  " Free  sufiFrage ;  Xo:"  and  if,  at 
said  election  the  number  of  ballots  cast  in  favor  of 
said  proposition  shall  be  a  majority  of  all  votes 
cast  on  that  subject,  then  all  restrictions  on  the 
right  of  suffrage  in  regard  to  color  shall  be  stricken 
from  the  Constitution." 

Mr.  HAYDEN,  As  there  seexas  to  be 
many  amendments  offered  to  this  report,  I 
move  that  the  Convention  resolve .  itself  into 
committee  of  the  Whole  to  take  under  consid- 
eration this  report. 

Mr.  KING.  I  see  no  necessity  for  such  a 
course.  We  have  just  come  out  of  commit- 
tee, and  disposed  of  its  recommendations, 
and  we  can  dispose  of  this  amendment  just 
as  well  in  Convention  as  in  committee. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to. 

The  Convention  accordingly  resolved  itself 
into  committee  of  the  Whole,  (Mr.  Dcley  in 


552 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Monday,  August  24. 


the  Chair),  and  assumed  the  consideration  of 
the  report  upon  Miscellaneous  Provisions. 

Mr.  KING  offered  his  amenlment  as  an 
additional  section. 

Mr.  C  LEGHORN.  I  move  to  amend  the 
amendment  by  striking  out  thfe  words  "free 
suffrage"  wherever  they  occur  and  inserting 
in  their  place  the  words  "shall  the  word 
'  white'  be  stricken  out,"  and  by  striking  out 
all  after  the  word  "subject"  and  insertuig 
"  then  the  word  '  white '  shall  be  stricken  out 
of  the  article  upon  the  Elective  Franchise." 

Mr.  IIAYDEN  offered  the  foUowing  substi- 
tute for  the  additional  section  and  amend- 
ment— 

"Sec.  — .  At  the  same  election  that  this  Con- 
stitution is  submitted  to  the  people  for  its  adoption 
or  rejection,  a  proposition  to  amend  the  same  by 
striking  out  the  word  "white"  from  the  article- 
section  one,  on  the  "Right  of  Suffrage,"  shall  be 
separately  submitted  to  the  electors  of  this  State 
for  adoption  or  rejection  in  manner  following :  A 
separate  ballot  may  be  given  by  every  person  hav- 
ing a  right  to  vote  at  said  election  to  be  deposited 
in  a  separate  box ;  and  those  given  for  the  adop- 
tion of  such  proposition  shall  have  the  words: 
"Shall  the  word  'white'  be  stricken  out  of  the 
article— section  one,  on  the  Right  of  Suffrage? 
Yes."  And  those  given  against  the  proposition 
shall  have  the  words :  "  Shall  the  word  '  white '  be 
stricken  out  of  article — section  one,  on  the  Right 
of  Suffrage?  No."  And  if,  at  said  election,  the 
number  of  ballots  cast  in  favor  of  said  proposition 
shall  be  a  majority  of  all  those  cast  on  that  sub- 
ject, the  said  word  "white  "  shall  be  stricken  from 
said  article  and  be  no  part  thereof." 

The  substitute  was  adopted. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  My  colleague,  Mr.  But- 
LEB,  offered  this  morning  an  additional  sec- 
tion, which  was  drawn  up  in  haste,  and  needs 
a  slight  modification.     It  was  as  follows : — 

"Sec.  — .  The  powers  of  the  government  of 
the  State  of  Minnesota  shall  be  divided  into  three 
separate  departments — the  Legislative,  the  Execu- 
tive and  the  Judicial ;  and  no  person  charged  with 
exercising  powers  properly  belonging  to  one  of 
these  departments  shall  exercise  any  of  the  func- 
tions belonging  to  either  of  the  other  departments, 
except  in  such  cases  as  are  directed  or  permitted 
by  this  Constitution." 

Now  all  State  officers  must  belong  to  one 
or  the  other  of  those  departments,  and  Justi- 
ces of  the  Peace,  Notary  Publics,  and  Militia 
OflBcers,  would,  under  that  section,  be  exclu- 
ded from  holding  a  scat  in  the  Legislature. 
I  do  not  believe  that  such  was  the  intention 
of  the  Convention.    As  that  section  is  now  a  I 


part  of  this  report,  I  move  to  strike  out  al 
after  the  word  "Judicial." 

The  amendment  was  agreed  to. 

Mr.  FOLSOM.  Section  fourteen  of  this 
report,  in  reference  to  filling  vacancies  in  the 
U.  S.  Senate,  has  been  stricken  out.  I  think 
it  all  important  that  our  Constitution  should 
make  some  provision  for  filling  such  vacancies. 
I  offer  the  following  additional  section — 

"Skc.  7.  Whenever  the  office  of  United  States 
Senator  shall  become  vacant  from  any  cause,  it 
shall  be  the  duty  of  the  Governor,  or  person  ad- 
ministering the  government,  to  notify  the  Legisla- 
ture at  their  first  session  thereafter,  and  on  the 
first  day  after  the  permanent  organization  of  both 
branches  thereof,  the  members  of  the  Senate  shall 
assemble  in  the  Hall  of  Representatives  in  joint 
convention,  the  President  of  the  Senate  acting  as 
presiding  officer  thereof,  and  they  shall  proceed  to 
fill  said  vacancy  or  vacancies,  and  may  adjourn  from 
day  to  day  until  said  vacancy  or  vacancies  shall  be 
filled ;  and  the  person  having  a  majority  of  all  the 
ballots  cast  at  said  election  shall  be  declared  duly 
elected." 

The  amendment  was  agreed  to. 

On  motion  of  Mr.  CLEGHORN,  the  com- 
mittee then  rose  and  reported  the  report  and 
amendments  to  the  Convention  with  a  recom- 
mendation that  the  amendments  be  concurred 
in.  . 

The  question  being  on  the  first  amendment 
recommended  by  the  committee — 

Mr.  KING  said: — The  amendment  offered 
in  the  committee  by  the  gentleman  from  Hen- 
nepin (Mr.  Hayden)  and  now  under  consid- 
eration, does  not  suit  my  views.  The  section 
is  too  complicated  to  suit  my  views,  and  to 
answer  the  objects  intended.  I  propose  to 
offer  as  a  substitute,  my  amendment  modified 
as  follows : 

Sec.  — .  At  the  same  time  that  this  Constitution 
shall  be  submitted  to  the  people  for  their  adoption 
or  rejection,  a  separate  proposition  shall  be  sub- 
mitted upon  the  same  ballot  to  the  electors  of  the 
State  for  adoption  or  rejection,  in  manner  follow- 
ing, viz:  "Shall  the  word  'white'  be  striken 
out."  Those  voting  in  the  affirmative  shall  write 
or  print  the  word  '  Yes; '  those  voting  in  the  neg- 
ative, the  word  '  No ' ;  and  if  at  said  election,  the 
number  of  ballots  cast  in  favor  of  said  proposition 
shall  be  a  majority  of  all  the  votes  cast  on  that 
subject,  the  said  word  '  white '  shall  be  stricken 
from  said  article  and  be  no  part  thereof. 

The  substitute  was  rejected. 
The  amendment  recommended  by  the  com- 
mittee of  the  Whole  was  then  concurred  in. 


MINNESOTA  CONTENTION  DEBATES— Tuesday,  August  25. 


553 


The  next  amendment  recommended  by  the 
committee  was  to  strike  out  all  after  the  word 
"Judicial "  in  the  section,  dividing  the  powers 
of  the  government  into  three  departments. 

The  amendment  was  concurred  in. 

The  next  amendment  was  the  additional 
section  in  regard  to  filling  vacancies  in  the 
United  States  Senate. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  move  to  amend  that 
amendment,  by  adding  after  the  word  "Sen- 
ate "  the  words  "and  members  of  the  House 
of  Representatives." 

The  amendment  was  agreed  to. 

The  question  being  on  concurring  in  the 
section  as  amended — 

Mr.  GERRISH  moved  a  call  of  the  Con- 
vention, which  was  not  agreed  to. 

The  additional  section  as  amended  was 
then  concured  in. 

Mr.  PECKHAM  moved  to  amend  the  fif- 
teenth section  of  the  Report,  relating  to  the 
election  of  Regents  of  the  University,  by  in- 
serting after  the  word  "  Minnesota,"  where 
it  first  occurs,  the  words  "  The  Superintend- 
ent of  Public  Instruction  shall  be  ex-offido  a 
member  of  said  Board." 

The  amendment  was  rejected. 

The  report  was  then  ordered  to  be  engross- 
ed for  a  third  reading. 

On  motion  of  Mr.  HARDING  the  conven- 
tion took  a  recess  until  half  past  two  o'clock. 

•      AFTERNOON  SESSION. 
The  Convention  was  called  to  order  pursu- 
ant to  adjournment,  and  on  motion  of  Mr. 
Watsox  immediately  adjourned. 


THIRTY-EIGHTH  DAY. 

Tuesday,  August  25th,  1857. 

The  Convention  met  at  nine  o'clock,  a.  m. 

The  Journal  of  yesterday  was  read  and  ap- 
proved. 

Mr.  MANTOR,  fixjm  the  committee  on 
Engrossment  reported  back  Report  number 
twenty -five,  on  Miscellaneous  Provisions,  as 
correctly  engrossed. 

Mr.  LYLE  offered  the  following  resolution : 

"  Besolved,  That  this  Convention  adjourn  on 
Thursday  the  27th  inst.,  without  day." 

Mr.  NORTH.  I  hope  the  resolution  will 
not  be  adopted.  We  would  all  like  to  finish 
70 


our  labors  on  Thursday  if  we  can,  but  it  is 
impossible  to  say  whether  we  can  do  so  or 
not,  and  it  would  be  useless  to  pass  a  resolu- 
tion which  we  do  not  know  that  we  can  carry 
out. 

The  PRESIDENT.  The  resolution,  giving 
rise  to  debate,  will  lay  over  under  the  rules. 

Mr.  MANTOR  moved  to  suspend  the  rules 
so  far  as  to  allow  the  consideration  of  the 
resolution  at  this  time. 

The  motion  was  not  agreed  to,  and  the 
resolution  was  laid  over. 

Mr.  KING  moved  to  take  up  Report  num- 
ber twenty -five  upon  Miscellaneous  Provis- 
ions, and  put  it  upon  its  third  reading  and 
final  passage. 

Mr.  CLEGHORN.  The  committee  on 
Miscellaneous  Provisions  have  other  matters 
to  report,  and  I  think  it  better  to  let  this 
report  remain  as  it  is  imtil  the  committee 
report  finally. 

Mr.  KING  withdrew  his  motion. 

Mr.  BILLINGS  offered  the  following  reso- 
lution : 

"Hesolved,  That  the  committee  on  Arrangement 
and  Phraseology  is  hereby  requested  to  report 
back  such  articles  to  this  Convention  as  they  have 
considered." 

Mr.  MORGAN.  My  impression  is  that  the 
committee  on  Arrangement  and  Phraseology 
cannot  report  article  by  article.  The  object 
of  that  committee  is  to  arrange  the  articles  in 
the  proper  order  in  which  they  should  stand. 

The  resolution  was  not  agreed  to. 

On  motion  of  Mr.  KING,  the  Convention 
took  a  recess  until  half  past  two  o'clock. 
AFTERNOON  SESSION. 

The  Convention  was  called  to  order  at  half 
past  two  o'clock. 

On  motion  of  Mr.  SECOMBE,  the  Conven- 
tion took  a  recess  imtil  five  o'clock. 

The  Convention  was  called  to  order  at  five 
o'clock,  and  on  motion  of  Mr.  North,  ad- 
journed. 


THIRTY-NINTH  DAY. 

Wedn-esday,  August  26th,  1857. 
The  Convention  met  at  nine  o'clock  A.  M. 
The  journal  of  yesterday  was  read  and 
approved. 

FINAL  ADJOUBSKENrr 

The  resolution  of  Mr.  Lyle,  offered  yester- 


654 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Wednesday,  August  26. 


day,  in  reference  to  the  final  adjournment  of 
the  Convention,  coming  up  under  the  regular 
order  of  business — 

Mr.  HARDING  moved  to  lay  the  same 
upon  the  table. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to. 

Mr.  HAYDEN.  I  would  enquire  of  the 
Chair  whether  all  the  reports  have  been 
passed  and  referred  to  the  committee  upon 
Arrangement  and  Phraseology  ? 

The  PRESIDENT.  There  are  half-a-dozen 
reports  yet  unacted  on. 

Mr.  HAYDEN.  It  seems  to  me  that  they 
should  be  immediately  passed  and  referred  to 
that  committee.  They  will  require  some 
consideration  after  that  committee  reports 
upon  them. 

On  motion  of  Mr.  COLBURN,  the  Con- 
vention took  a  recess  until  half-past  ten 
o'clock,  A.  M. 

At  the  expiration  of  the  recess,  the  Pbesi- 
DBNT  resumed  the  Chair. 

ASSAULT   ON   MK.  WILSON. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH,  chairman  of  the  com- 
mittee of  Conference,  made  the  following 
report,  which  was  accepted  and  ordered  to  be 
entered  upon  the  journal,  viz : 

"The  Conference  Committee  would  respectfully 
report  that  on  yesterday,  (August  twenty-fifth) 
while  in  session  of  the  joint  committee,  Ex-Gov. 
Willis  A.  Goeman,  chairman  of  the  committee, 
appointed  by  the  Convention  holding  its  session 
in  the  Council  Chamber  of  this  Capitol,  committed 
a  violent  assault  upon  Thomas  Wilson,  a  member 
of  this  committee. 

Your  committee  therefore  respectfully  request 
instf  actions  from  this  Convention  as  to  their  future 
course  of  action  in  view  of  the  events  that  have 
transpired.  THOS.  J.  GALBRAITH, 

Chairman. 

To  the  Goiistitutional  Convention. 

Mr.  GERRtSH  offered  the  following  pre- 
amble and  resolutions : 

♦<  Whebbas,  It  appears  by  the  report  just  receiv- 
ed, that  Willis  A.  Gorman,  chairman  of  the  com- 
mittee appointed  by  the  Convention  sitting  in 
the  other  end  of  the  Capitol,  to  confer  with  a  com- 
mittee appointed  by  this  Convention,  did,  on  the 
twenty-lifth  instant,  while  the  committees  were  in 
session,  commit  a  violent  assault,  without  any  just 
cause  or  provocation,  upon  Thomas  Wilson,  Esq., 
a  member  of  the  commiitee  appointed  by  this 
Convention;  therefore, 

"Resolved,  That  the  committee  of  this  Conven- 
tion be  requested  to  hold  no  further  conference 
with  the  aforesaid  committee,  so  long  as  Willis 
A.  GoEMAN  continueB  to  be  o  member  thereof. 


Mr.  HARDING.  I  move  that  the  rules  be 
so  far  suspended  as  to  allow  the  resolution  to 
be  considered  now. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  I  have  a  word  to  say, 
and  only  a  word.  The  committee  does  not 
report  that  the  assault  was  without  just 
cause  or  provocation.  We  cannot  do  that 
without  putting  upon  the  records  the  grounds 
upon  which  we  base  such  a  conclusion.  I 
cannot  consent  that  a  resolution  pronouncing 
a  conviction,  shall  go  upon  the  journal,  with- 
out having  the  evidence  upon  which  it  is 
founded,  publicly  expressed  upon  the  journals 
of  the  Convention  also.  We  have  reported 
only  that  such  an  occurrence  took  place,  and 
it  is  now  for  the  Convention  to  take  action 
upon  it,  and  to  make  the  record  right  so  that 
we  can  show  to  the  world  the  evidence  upon 
which  we  based  our  accusation.  This  is 
merely  a  report  to  base  the  action  of  the 
Convention  upon.  At  present  the  facts  are 
not  stated.  The  Convention  have  not  the 
facts  before  them,  and  before  this  resolution 
is  passed,  I  ask  that  the  facts  be  ascertained 
and  placed  upon  the  record.  I  do  not  want 
the  Convention  to  act  upon  what  they  have 
heard  outside. 

Mr.  MANTOR.  I  move  that  this  matter 
be  made  the  special  order  for  this  afternoon 
at  half-past  two  o'clock. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  I  would  submit  t«  the 
Convention  the  propriety  of  that  course,  as  a 
part  of  the  committee  of  Conference  are  now 
in  the  Secretary's  oflBce,  waiting  for  the  part 
of  the  committee  from  this  body.  The  prob- 
ability is  that  all  the  subject  matters  before 
that  {committee  can  be  disposed  of,  one  ^sij 
or  another,  in  the  course  of  two  hours,  and  if 
anything  is  to  be  done  about  this  assault,  it 
should  be  done  at  once. 

Mr.  MANTOR.     I  withdraw  my  motion. 

Mr.  ROBBINS.  The  gentleman  from  Chi- 
sago says  that  a  part  of  the  committee  arc 
now  waiting  in  the  Secretary's  oflBce  for  the 
committee  from  this  body.  I  would  ask  the 
gentleman  what  committee  they  expect  from 
this  bodyV  Have  they  the  impudence  to 
believe  that  tliis  body  is  going  to  send  the 
same  man  down  there  who  was  so  brutally 
assaulted  yesterday?  Do  they  believe  we 
are  so  lost  to  our  self-respect  that  we  can 
treat  with  them  while  all  their  members  still 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Wed>-esday,  August  26. 


555 


continue  upon  it  ?  So  long  as  I  am  a  mem- 
ber of  this  body,  my ^  sanction  cannot  be  had 
for  such  a  course.  As  I  have  said  before,  I 
am  ready  for  any  compromise  which  can  be 
made  consistently  with  our  self-respect,  but  I 
can  do  nothing  towards  furthering  the  action 
of  that  committee,  while  "Willis  A.  Gokman 
is  a  member  of  it.  We  have  had  it  reported 
by  our  Conference  committee  that  Wilus  A. 
GoRMAX  did  commit  an  outragrous  assault, 
and  we  know  it  is  without  provocation.  Shall 
we  send  Mr.  "Wilson  down  there  again  to 
meet  Willis  A.  Gobmak  ?  I  am  not  one  of 
those  who  choose  to  conciliate  any  adverse 
party  by  placing  myself  in  a  groveling  posi- 
tion. So  long  as  I  can  maintain  what  I  think 
to  be  a  right,  I  am  ready  to  make  compro- 
mises. I  am  not  willing  to  go  any  lower.  I 
am  as  low  as  I  can  go,  and  I  will  not  send 
down  another  committee  from  this  body  while 
Gorman  is  a  member  of  that  committee. 

I  like  the  resolution,  but  I  think  it  can  be 
improved.  I  oflFer  the  following  substitute 
for  the  preamble  of  the  resolution : 

"  Whereas,  By  the  report  of  the  committee  of 
the  Conference,  just  received  by  this  Convention, 
it  appears  that  a  gross  personal  assault  was  made 
by  Willis  A.  Goemax,  a  member  of  the  commit- 
tee of  Conference  appointed  on  the  part  of  the 
Convention  sitting  in  the  Council  Chamber  of  this 
Capitol,  upon  Thomas  Wilsox,  a  member  of  the 
said  eommitiee,  appointed  on  the  part  of  this  Con- 
vention, during  the  session  of  the  said  committee, 
and  yesterday ;  therefore" 

Mr.  STANNARD.  In  cases  of  this  kind 
we  are  liable  to  be  excited,  and  I  am  disposed 
to  keep  very  cool.  I  am  in  favor  of  disposing 
of  this  matter,  now,  and  against  postponing 
it,  for  the  reason  that  if  this  committee  of 
Conference  is  to  be  continued,  it  ought  to  be 
determined  by  this  Convention  now,  so  that 
they  can  finish  their  labors  to  day. 

Mr.  FOSTER  moved  to  amend  by  striking 
out  all  after  the  preamble,  and  inserting  the 
following : 

"  Resolved,  That  the  committee  of  this  Conven- 
tion be  instructed  to  notify  the  committee  of  the 
other  body,  that  they  cannot  meet  with  them  so 
long  as  Willis  A.  Gorman  shall  participate  in  the 
proceedings  of  the  committee." 

The  PRESIDENT.  The  question  must  be 
first  put  on  the  substitute  for  the  preamble. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  am  opposed  to  this  last 
substitute.     If  there  was  a  gross  personal  I 


assault,  and  there  was  any  justifiable  excuse 
for  it,  then  we  ought  not  to  refuse  to  confer 
with  the  committee  in  consequence  of  that 
assault.  If  it  was  not  justifiable,  then  our 
position  is  correct.  Now  I  say  nothing  will 
justify  such  an  assault,  unless  a  similar  as- 
sault was  committed  first  upon  Mr.  Gorman, 
compelling  him  to  put  himself  upon  the  de- 
fence. I  say  no  words  would  justify  it,  there- 
fore I  am  prepared  to  say,  as  a  member  of 
this  Convention,  that  the  assault  was  without 
a  justifiable  cause.  Hence  I  am  opposed  to 
the  preamble  and  substitute. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  The  report  is  before 
the  Convention,  and  all  I  ask  of  the  Conven- 
tion is  to  use  the  language  of  the  report.  We 
have  reported  the  naked  fact  that  a  violent 
assault  was  committed,  without  qualifying 
terms  at  all.  Whether  there  should  be  quali- 
fying terms,  is  a  matter  to  be  decided  upon 
investigation.  It  does  not  appear  by  our  re- 
port that  there  should  be,  though,  as  an  in- 
dividual, I  am  ready  to  say  there  was  no  cause 
for  the  assault.  But  it  does  not  appear  in  our 
report  that  that  is  so,  and  we  did  not  wish  to 
put  it  in  our  report.  We  wished  simply  to 
state  the  offence.  That  was  plain  enough  to 
any  man.  If  the  Convention  caUs  upon  us 
to  report  the  facts  of  the  case,  we  will  do  so; 
but  there  is  now  nothing  upon  the  record  but 
the  simple  fact  of  the  assault  committed,  and 
the  Convention  is  called  upon,  by  the  resolu- 
tion, to  vote  upon  a  matter  of  which  there  is, 
as  yet,  no  record.  We  have  not  reported 
testimony  in  the  case.  The  members  of  the 
committee  are  ready  to  give  their  testimony, 
if  called  upon  by  the  Convention.  But  all  we 
ask  of  the  Convention  is  now  that  the  Con- 
vention should  act  upon  the  simple  fact  of 
the  assault. 

Mr.  BOBBINS.  I  thought  when  I  offered 
the  substitute,  that  it  was  in  the  exact  lan- 
guage of  the  report  of  the  gentleman  who  has 
just  taken  his  seat.  I  intended  that  it  should 
be  so,  and  if  the  gentleman  will  suggest  such 
alteration  as  he  desires,  I  will  accept  it. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  I  desire  that  the  lan- 
guage of  the  report  should  be  used. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  The  language  of  the  re- 
port is,  "  violent  assault,"  and  the  language 
of  the  substitute  is,  "  gross  personal  assault." 
There  is  hardly  difference  enough  to  make* 
distinction. 


556  MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Wednesday,  August  26. 


By  general  consent  the  words  "  violent  as- 
sault "  were  substituted  for  "  gross  personal 
assault." 

The  substitute  for  the  preamble  of  the  res- 
olution was  then  adopted. 

The  question  then  recurred  upon  the  sub- 
stitute for  the  resolution,  offered  by  Mr. 
Foster. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  hope  the  amendment 
will  not  prevail.  The  resolution,  as  it  was 
originally  offered,  provides  that  the  committee 
appointed  upon  the  part  of  this  Convention, 
wUl  hold  no  further  conference  with  the  com- 
mittee appointed  upon  the  part  of  the  Con- 
vention sitting  in  the  Council  Chamber,  so  long 
as  Willis  A.  Gorsian  "  remains  a  member 
of  the  committee,"  while  the  amendment 
offered  by  the  gentleman  from  Dakota  county 
uses  the  language  "  participates  in  the  pro- 
ceedings of  the  committee." 

Now  I  understand  that  this  is  part  of  a 
plan  or  system,  which  has  been  got  up,  by 
which  Messrs.  Wilson  and  Gorman  shall,  by 
common  consent,  retire  themselves  from  the 
committee,  and  the  other  four  members  upon 
each  side,  shall  go  on  and  complete  the  labors 
of  the  committee.  For  one,  I  protest  against 
any  such  action.  I  wish  this  Convention  to 
take  the  ground  that  they  will  hold  no  further 
conference  so  long  as  the  offending  member  is 
a  member  of  that  committee.  I  desire  that 
this  Convention  shall  put  the  matter  in  such 
a  position  that  the  other  Convention  will  be 
bound  to  show  their  hand  upon  this  matter, 
and  take  a  position  either  to  justify  the  action 
of  the  member  of  their  committee  alluded  to, 
or  to  repudiate  it,  and  put  that  disclaimer 
upon  the  record  in  full  and  bold  terms.  I 
wish,  as  a  member  of  this  Convention,  to  know 
whether  the  Convention  sitting  in  the  other 
end  of  the  Capitol  do  countenance  that  action 
or  not.  I  wish  to  know  whether  they  admit 
it  as  a  part  of  the  policy  which  they  wish  to 
inaugurate  in  the  coming  campaign.  If  they 
do  not  so  desire,  I  would  like  to  have  them 
come  out  and  disclaim  all  connection  with  it, 
as  a  Convention.  Now  the  proposition  offer- 
ed by  the  gentleman  from  Dakota  county,  al- 
lows Willis  A.  Gorman  to  withdraw  from  the 
meetings  of  the  committee  to  attend  to  his 
own  private  affairs,  to  skulk  out  of  the  way 
of  the  retributive  hands  of  justice,  and  to 
relieve  the  Convention  sitting  in  the  other  end 


of  the  Capitol  from  the  responsibility  of  pass- 
ing upon  the  question.  I  hope,  therefore,  the 
amendment  will  not  prevail,  but  that  the  ori- 
ginal resolution  will  pass,  and  that  this  Con- 
vention will  offer  the  alternative  to  the  other 
Convention,  either  boldly  to  adopt  the  policy 
of  their  dictator,  or  to  disclaim  it. 

Mr.  ROBBINS.  The  gentleman  from  Hen- 
nepin has  explained  what  was  meant  by  the 
proposition  which  has  been  introduced  by  the 
gentleman  from  Dakota,  which  renders  it  un- 
necessary to  do  what  I  was  about  to  do — ask 
the  gentleman  from  Dakota  if,  in  covering  up 
this  thing  he  wished  to  pass  something  through 
this  Convention,  which  members  of  this  Con- 
vention, if  not  the  Convention  itself,  would 
not  vote  for,  if  the  motive  was  apparent, 

Mr.  FOSTER.  I  think  the  gentleman  from 
Olmsted  ought  to  hesitate  when  he  imputes  to 
others,  motives  different  from  those  which 
appear  upon  the  face  of  things.  I  am  one 
of  those  who  condemn  the  outrage  which  has 
been  committed,  as  gross,  unprovoked,  and 
quite  characteristic  of  the  man  who  perpetra- 
ted it,  but  we  may  differ  as  to  the  best  course 
of  poUcy  to  pursue.  We  were  sent  here  to 
frame  a  Constitution,  not  for  ourselves,  but 
for  the  people.  We  were  sent  here  to  inau- 
gurate a  government  for  the  benefit  of  the 
whole  people,  and  to  take  care  that  the  career 
of  prosperity  upon  which  Minnesota  has  thus 
far  proceeded,  shall  not  be  checked,  and  that 
anarchy  shall  not  prevail ;  that  two  govern- 
ments shall  not  be  instituted  with  two  full 
sets  of  officers,  contending  for  the  suprema- 
cy in  our  State.  I  am  for  pursuing  a  policy  , 
which  shall  prevent  such  a  state  of  things, 
because  it  will  certainly  bring  ruin  upon  our 
Territory.  So  long  as  the  course  pursued  by 
the  members  of  the  other  Convewtion  forced 
upon  us  the  alternative  of  making  two  dis- 
tinct Constitutions,  and  submitting  them  to 
people,  I  was  willing  to  do  so,  because  I  knew 
that  we  were  right,  and  there  was  no  other 
course  before  us.  They  would  be  responsible 
for  the  result.  But  a  compromise  was  pro- 
posed and  we  have  proceeded  so  far  in  it, 
that  the  committeeof  compromise  have  agreed 
upon  an  apportionment  for  representation,  an 
arrangement  of  the  judiciary,  fend  upon  the 
same  set  of  oflBcers,  and  there  now  remains 
but  one  other  point  to  arrange,  and  that  is 
the  mode  of  submitting  the  Constitution  to 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Wednesday,  August  26. 


557 


the  people.  Having  proceeded  thus  far,  I  am 
un\villing,  on  account  of  angry  or  party  feel- 
ing, to  close  the  door  against  finishing  and 
completing  this  compromise.  Therefore  it  is, 
that  I  offer  the  resolution  that  the  committee, 
if  this  man  shall  not  appear  and  participate  in 
their  deliberation,  may  proceed  to  finish  the 
work  confided  to  them. 

As  to  what  the  gentleman  across  the  way 
(Mr.  Secombe,)  said,  as  to  not  allowing  Mr. 
Wilson  to  participate  in  their  proceedings,  I 
do  not  know  of  any  such  arrangement,  though 
if  he  should  retire,  it  would  be  nothing  more 
than  what  has  been  done  heretofore.  It  has 
been  a  common  practice  in  the  committee.  I 
have  been  informed,  if  one  member  was  ab- 
sent, for  some  member  upon  the  opposite  side 
not  to  participate  in  the  deliberations  of  the 
committee.  Three  members  upon  each  side 
would  be  suflBcient  to  go  on  and  complete 
their  labors.  I  hope  that  gentlemen  will  look 
at  this  matter  in  the  proper  light,  and  see  to 
it,  that  we  substantially  accomplish  all  that 
we  ought  to  do,  and,  while  we  direct  our  com- 
mittee not  to  associate  with  that  man,  yet  wiU 
authorize  them,  in  his  absence,  to  go  and  ac- 
complish the  work  before  them. 

Mr.  NORTH.  I  hope  we  shall  not  spend 
much  time  in  discussing  this  matter.  I  be- 
lieve the  substitute  offefed  by  the  gentleman 
from  Dakota  meets  the  views  and  wishes,  so 
far  as  I  can  learn,  of  the  men  who  are  best 
acquainted  with  all  the  facts,  and  for  that  rea- 
son I  shall  vote  for  it,  and  hope  it  will 
prevail. 

Mr.  ROBBIXS.  The  gentleman  answered 
ray  question  simply  by  requesting  me  not  to 
impute  wrong  motives  to  any  member  who 
might  offer  an  amendment  to  the  resolution. 
I  did  not  do  so.  I  asked  the  gentleman  a 
simple,  plain,  straight  forward  question.  I 
now  understand  his  design  to  be  to  allow 
GoBMAN  to  remain  on  the  committee,  without 
participating  in  its  doings.  I  consider  that 
would  be  an  insult  to  myself  and  to  this 
Convention.  Though  I  would  like  to  vote 
with  my  friend  upon  my  right,  I  cannot  do 
so.  There  is  something  in  this  beyond  mere 
party  policy.  We  came  here  to  frame  a  Con  ■ 
stitution  for  aU — Republicans  and  Democrats. 
We  came  here,  and  have  acted  all  along  in  a 
strictly  parliamentary  manner.  We  took 
possession  of  this  Hall ;  we  have  kept  pos- 


session of  it;  we  organized,  and  we  com- 
mitted no  outrage.  AYe  had  a  majority  of 
legally  elected  delegates  to  this  Constitutional 
Convention,  holding  their  credentials  fi"om  the 
proper  officers.  Behind  them  we  could  not 
go.  Outside  pressure  has  forced  us  from  the 
position  we  took.  That  position  was  a  good 
and  strong  one,  and  we  did  wrong  when  we 
succumbed  to  outside  pressure.  We  did 
wrong  because  it  was  not  successful  in  its  ob- 
ject. I  regret  that  we  did  yield  to  it  on  that 
account,  not  that  under  the  same  circumstan- 
ces I  would  not  vote  for  the  same  thing 
again,  for  I  would,  as  I  believe  what  we  did 
was  intended  for  good. 

Well,  we  succumbed  to  a  minority,  and  ap- 
pointed a  committee  from  this  body  to  meet  a 
committee  from  that  body.  The  people 
demanded  it,  and  we  yielded  to  that  demand 
because  it  was  merely  a  parliamentary  matter. 
But  now  comes  a  different  state  of  thiiig-s. 
A  member  of  our  committee  has  been  grossly 
assaulted.  Now  when  it  comes  to  blows,  af- 
ter all  the  sacrifices  we  have  made,  I  think  it 
is  time  that  we  should  pause.  Our  own  self- 
respect  requires  that  we  should  stop ;  and 
our  constituents  require  that  we  should  stop. 
I  do  not  think  that  a  single  individual  of  those 
who  sent  me  here  would  bear  me  out  in  tak- 
ing another  forward  step.  I  do  not  think 
they  require  such  a  compromise  as  that ;  and 
if  they  do,  they  must  require  it  of  somebody 
besides  me.  If  they  wish  me  to  sacrifice 
everything — reputation,  principle,  honor — I 
cannot  do  it.  And  if  the  people  will  not  sus- 
tain the  action  of  this  Convention,  so  far  as 
the  Convention  have  been  right,  the  respon- 
sibility rests  with  the  people,  and  there  we 
ought  to  be  content  to  leave  it. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  regret  that  the  pream- 
ble of  the  resolution  has  been  changed.  It 
met  my  views  exactly.  But  that  preamble 
having  been  stricken  out  and  another  adopted 
in  its  place,  which,  to  my  mind,  is  wrong,  and 
presents  us  in  a  wrong  light,  I  shall  be  com- 
pelled to  vote  for  the  substitute  offered  by 
the  gentleman  from  Dakota  county.  This 
Convention  has  declared  that  no  evidence  has 
come  before  them  to  show  that  the  assault 
committed  by  Gorman  was  justifiable.  Now 
if  that  assault  was  justifiable,  why  should  we 
discontinue  our  intercourse  with  that  commit- 
tee?    If  it  was  not  justifiable,  why  not  as- 


558 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Wednesday,  August  26. 


sert  it,  and  not  imply  that  it  was  justifiable  ? 
But  as  the  committee  have  refused  to  say  that 
it  was  not  justifiable,  I  say  pass  the  resolu- 
tion, and  let  us  take  our  own  course  un- 
der it. 

Mr.  HUDSON.  I  am  in  favor  of  the  orig- 
inal resolution,  and  opposed  to  the  substi- 
tute. If  a  member  of  our  committee  has 
been  assaulted  and  insulted,  every  member  of 
this  Convention  has  been  insulted.  If  one 
member  of  their  committee  has  been  guUty 
of  an  outrage,  every  member  of  that  Conven- 
tion who  sustains  it,  is  equally  guilty  of  an 
outrage,  and  for  one  I  am  decidedly  opposed 
to  our  committee  having  any  farther  negotia- 
tions with  that  committee,  unless  that  Con- 
vention take  action  upon  this  matter,  and  re- 
move Willis  A.  Gorman  from  the  committee. 
I  think  we  should  make  that  a  condition  of 
our  farther  acting  with  them,  and  therefore  I 
shall  vote  against  the  substitute. 

Mr.  McKUNE.  I  hope  the  substitute  will 
be  voted  down,  as  it  appears  to  sanction  a 
gross  and  violent  personal  assault,  without 
any  provocation  whatever.  A  resolution 
should  be  passed  which  requires  the  removal 
of  GoEMAN  from  that  committee,  and  in- 
structing our  committee  to  agree,  upon  no 
compromise  until  that  is  done. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  desire  to  say,  in  ex- 
planation of  some  remarks  made  by  the  gen- 
tleman from  Dakota,  (Mr.  Fosteb,)  what  I 
did  not  say  at  first,  and  what  I  should  not 
have  said  at  all,  if  that  gentleman  had  not 
denied  any  knowledge  of  the  plan  I  spoke  of. 
I  stated,  when  I  spoke  before,  that  this  reso- 
lution was  offered  in  accordance  with  a  plan 
that  the  two  members  of  the  cominittee  of 
Conference  who  were  more  particularly  con- 
nected with  this  matter  should  leave  the  com- 
mittee, and  that  the  other  ^four,  upon  each 
side,  should  go  on  with  the  business  before 
the  committee.  As  the  gentleman  denies 
any  knowledge  of  such  plan,  I  ask  the  priv- 
ilege of  stating  that  [amongst  others,  I  con- 
versed with  that  gentleman  this  morning,  and 
proposed  the  plan  that  has  been  offered  to  the 
Convention ;  that  he  opposed  it  and  proposed 
the  plan  which  he  has  embodied  in  his  sub- 
stitute— that  four  members  of  the  committee 
upon  each  side  should  go  on  and  finish  up 
the  business  before  the  committee.  It  is  also 
a  part  of  the  plan  which  has  been  followed 


out  from  the  very  commencement  of  our  pro- 
ceedings for  a  compromise.  When  the  thing 
was  first  talked  of,  we  must  not  say  anything 
about  it,  but  wait  a  little  while  and  see  if 
something  new  would  not  turn-up.  Gentle- 
men, enough  has  turned  up  ^already;  and 
among  the  things  which  are  going  to  turn  up 
in  the  future,  I  hope  it  will  not  be  that  this 
Convention  will  disgrace  itself  by  holding 
communion  with  that  committee  while  Ex- 
Governor  Gorman  is  upon  it. 

I  ask  for  the  yeas  and  nays  upon  the  sub- 
stitute. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  I  move  that  there  be 
a  call  of  the  Convention. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to,  and  the  roll  be- 
ing called  the  following  'members  failed  to 
answer  to  their  names  : 

Messrs.  Ayer,  Coggswell,  Davis,  Folsom, 
Kemp,  Lyle,  Lowe,  Mantor,  McCann,  Mes- 
SER,  Perkins,  Putnam,  Sheldon,  and  Smith. 

On  motion  of  Mr.  SECOMBE,  all  further 
proceedings  under  the  call  were  dispensed 
with. 

And  then  the  Convention  took  a  recess  un- 
til half-past  two  o'clock. 

AFTERNOON  SESSION. 

The  Convention  met  at  half-past  two 
o'clock. 

The  PRESIDENT  announced  as  the  unfin- 
ished business  of  the  morning  session,  the  re- 
solution in  reference  to  the  assault  on  Mr. 
Wilson,  the  immediate  question  being  on  the 
substitute  for  the  resolution,  offered  by  Mr. 
Foster. 

Mr.  CLEGHORN.  Not  having  the  evi- 
dence necessary  to  [enable  us  to  vote  intelli- 
gently on  that  resolution,  I  move  that  the 
preamble,  resolution  and  substitute  be  laid  on 
the  table. 

Mr.  SECOMBE  called  for  the  yeas  and 
nays,  but  they  were  refu.sed. 

The  motion  was  then  agreed  to. 

BEPOBTS   PASSED. 

On  motion  of  Mr.  MANTOR,  report  num- 
ber three,  on  Public  Property,  was  tjvkcn  up, 
read  a  third  time  and  passed. 

On  motion  of  Mr.  MANTOR,  report  num- 
ber four,  on  Boundaries,  was  taken  up,  read 
a  third  time  and  passed. 

Mr.  SECOMBE  moved  that  the  Convention 
adjouni. 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Thubsd ay,  August  27. 


659 


Mr.  NORTH  remarked  in  opposition,  and 
by  unanimous  consent,  that  he  had  just  been 
informed  that  the  Conference  Committee  were 
perhaps  nearly  ready  to  report  their  agi'ec- 
ment  uport  one  Constitution,  and  he  thought 
it  incumbent  upon  members  to  wait  f8r  their 
report. 
The  motion  however,  prevailed,  and. 
The  Convention  adjourned  until  to-morrow 
morning  at  nine  o'clock. 


FORTIETH  DAY. 

Thursday,  August  27, 1857. 
The  Convention  met  at  nine  o'clock  a.  m. 
The  journal  of  yesterday  was  read  and  ap- 
proved. 

PBIXTISG   OF   THE    PROCEEDINGS   AND  DEBATES. 

Mr.  COLBURN  submitted  the  following: 
Resolved,  That  the  President  of  this  Convention" 
be  directed  to  contract  for  the  purchase  of  two 
thousand  copies  of  the  debates  and  proceedings  of 
this  Convention,  as  taken  by  the  oflScial  reporter, 
including  the  Organic  Act  of  this  Territory,  the 
Enabling  Act  of  Congress,  and  the  act  of  the  Ter- 
ritorial Legislature  passed  in  pursuance  thereof, 
the  Constitution  and  an  abstract  of  the  vote  of  the 
people  thereon,  with  a  full  and  complete  index ; 
^  the  same  to  be  furnished  in  good  substantial  bind- 
ing, subject  to  the  order  of  the  President,  on  or 
before  the  first  day  of  January,  1858,  at  a  price 
not  exceeding  that  allowed  the  Territorial  Printer 
by  law,  for  executing  work  of  like  character,  to  be 
paid  as  a  part  of  the  expenses  of  this  Convention. 
Besolved,  That  five  copies  of  said  Debates  and 
Proceedings  be  furnished  to  each  of  the  members 
and  officers  of  this  Convention  and  that  the  copies 
remaining  be  deposited  in  the  Library  of  the  Ter- 
ritory or  future  State. 

Mr.  COLBURN  said  :  There  is  now  some 
prospect  that  we  shall  agree  upon  one  Con- 
stitution, and  that  only  one  will  be  submitted 
to  the  people.  In  that  event  I  presume  that 
the  expenses  of  this  Convention  in  full  will 
be  recognized  and  paid  eventually  by  the  gen- 
eral government.  It  is  very  desh-able  that 
the  reports  of  our  debates  and  proceedings 
should  be  published,  and  it  appears  to  me 
that  it  should  be  left  in  such  a  manner  as  to 
allow  the  President  of  this  Convention  or 
some  other  person,  and  I  think  the  Presdest 
is  as  suitable  person  as  any  one — to  contract 
for -the  printing  of  these  reports  to  the  best 
advantage.     It  is  not  known,  in  fact,  whether 


the  printing  can  be  done  in  St.  Paul.  I  pro- 
pose to  leave  it  so  that  the  printing  may  be 
done  in  the  best  possible  manner,  without 
specifying  how  it  shall  be  done. 

The  PRESIDENT.  The  resolution  will  lay 
over  imder  the  rule  one  day. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  move  to  suspend  the 
rules  so  as  to  allow  the  resolution  to  be  con- 
sidered now. 

Mr.  MORGAN.  I  am  inclined  to  think 
that  the  resolution  had  better  lie  over  for  the 
reason  that  the  committee  of  Conference  may 
agree  upon  some  mode  in  which  these  debates 
and  proceedings  may  be  published. 

The  question  was  taken,  and  the  rules 
were  suspended,  (two-thirds  voting  in  favor 
thereof.) 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  will  modify  my  reso- 
lution by  substituting  the  word  "  authorized  " 
for  "directed"  in  the  second  line. 

Mr.  BILLINGS.  I  am  in  favor  of  the 
resolution,  but  would  prefer  that  the  remain- 
ing copies  should  be  deposited  with  the  Reg- 
ister of  Deeds  in  the  several  counties  in  pro- 
portion to  their  representation  in  the  House 
of  Representatives.  They  would  thereby 
become  more  generally  distributed  in  the  Ter- 
ritory. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  see  serious  objections 
to  such  a  course.  These  debates  are  to  be 
printed,  not  only  for  us,  but  for  the  benefit  of 
future  generations,  and  if  they  should  be  de- 
posited in  the  several  counties  now  organized, 
counties  hereafter  formed  will  not  be  provided 
for.  I  think  they  should  be  deposited  In  the 
State  Department,  that  the  Legislature  should 
provide  by  law  for  their  distribution,  and  for 
the  sale  of  the  remaining  copies. 

Mr.  ROBBINS.  I  would  suggest  another 
amendment  to  the  resolution.  Instead  of  two 
thousand,  I  would  have  three  thousand  copies 
published,  and  I  would  give  eight  copies  to 
each  member  instead  of  five.  It  is  well 
known  that  the  edition  of  the  Revised  Statutes 
published,  was  not  large  enough  to  supply  the 
wants  of  the  people.  There  are  none  now  on 
hand,  even  for  the  officers  of  the  Territory.  It 
is  also  well  known  that  the  members  of  this 
Convention  will  have  to  supply  a  number  of 
individuals  with  copies  of  these  reports,  and 
five  copies  are  not  enough  to  answer  their 
purposes.  At  any  rate,  eight  copies  will  go 
farther. 


560 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Thubsday,  August  27. 


Mr.  COLBURN.  Five  copies  will  be  as 
many  as  my  modesty  will  allow  me  to  ask. 

Mr.  ROBBINS.  I  do  not  ask  them  for 
myself. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  have  no  objection  to 
increasing  the  number  of  copies,  if  it  is  de- 
sirable. 

Mr.  MANTOR.  I  think  that  the  future 
generations,  which  the  gentleman  talks  about, 
will  read  sufficient  of  our  'debates  in  two 
thousand  volumes,  and  I  think  new  counties 
will  find  no  difficulty  in  obtaining  sufficient 
knowledge  of  the  proceedings  of  this  Conven- 
tion. I  am  in  favor  of  having  two  thousand 
copies  published,  and  of  giving  to  each  mem- 
ber one  or  five  copies,  just  as  the  Convention 
thinks  best.  I  am  not  willing  to  spend  too 
much  money  in  publishing  the  reports  of  this 
Convention,  but  I  am  not  opposed  to  spend- 
ing a  reasonable  sum. 

Mr.  PERKINS.  I  think  we  ought  to  have 
a  large  number  of  volumes  of  our  debates 
published,  especially  if  the  committee  of  Con- 
ference succeed  in  agreeing  upon  one  Consti- 
tution. Four-fifths  of  that  Constitution,  I 
understand,  will  consist  of  the  Constitution 
framed  in  the  other  chamber.  That  being 
the  case  the  debates  in  this  Hall  will  be  so 
instructive  to  future  generations,  and  throw 
such  a  flood  of  illumination  upon  the  Consti- 
tution that  they  ought  to  be  printed.  It  seems 
to  me  that  ten,  fifteen,  or  twenty  thousand 
copies  will  be  an  insufficient  ntimber.  And  I 
hope  gentlemen  will  not  be  so  modest  as  to 
restrict  themselves  to  five  or  even  eight  cop- 
ies. Each  member  here  will  have  three  times 
that  number  of  grand  children,  among  whom 
he  will  want  to  distribute  these  debates. 
[Laughter.] 

Mr.  MORGAN.  I  am  inclined  to  diminish 
rather  than  to  increase  the  number,  because 
if  the  committee  of  Conference  agree  upon  a 
Constitution,  our  debates  will  have  but  little 
reference  to  the  articles  actually  in  the  Con- 
stitution. The  chief  object  in  publishing 
debates  and  proceedings  is  to  learn  from 
them  the  reasons  for  the  ditterent  articles  of 
the  Constitution — the  reasons  and  arguments 
adduced  by  members  of  the  Convention  in 
favor  of,  or  against  this  or  that  particular  pro- 
vision. We  may  find  some  very  good  reason- 
ing in  our  debates,  but  it  will  have  no  appli- 


cation to  the  provisions  of  the  Constitution 
which  we  shall  actually  have.  For  that  rea- 
son I  think  that  the  smallest  number  we  can 
get  along  with  will  be  best. 

Mr.  PUDSON.  I  think  it  important  to 
have  as  many  copies  of  our  debates  published 
as  modesty  will  allow  us  to  ask  for,  for  if  we 
do  not,  future  generations  will  not  mistrust 
that  the  body  which  made  the  Constitution 
which  we  shall  probably  adopt,  was  a  Repub- 
lican body.  I  think  that  we  oug'ht  to  have 
published  reports  to  show  that  there  was  a 
Republican  body  here. 

Mr.  ROBBINS.  I  move  that  the  resolution 
be  laid  upon  the  the  table. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to. 

Mr.  DAVIS  moved  that  the  Convention 
take  a  recess  until  half-past  two  o'clock,  which 
motion  was  not  agreed  to. 

Mr.  DAVIS  moved  that  the  Convention 
adjourn,   which  motion  was  lost. 

PERSONAL  EXPLANATION. 

Mr.  WILSON.  Mr.  President;  I  wish, 
sir,  the  indulgence  of  this  Convention  while  I 
make  a  few  remarks  that  wDl  be  brief,  this 
morning ;  and  at  some  future  time  before  the 
Convention  shall  adjourn  finally,  I  may,  per- 
haps, desire  to  be  heard  more  at  length  on 
the  subject.  It  is  a  subject  that  probably 
concerns  myself  much  more  than  this  Conven- 
tion, or  any  member  thereof,  besides  myself. 
I  refer  to  the  difficulty  between  Ex-Governor 
Gorman,  of  the  other  wing  of  the  Capitol,  and 
myself,  which  took  place  in  the  conmiittee 
room. 

As  the  Convention  well  know,  I  had  the 
honor  to  be  appointed  to  serve  as  one  of  the 
committee  of  Conference,  to  meet  a  like  com- 
mittee from  the  west  wing  of  the  Capitol, 
which  committee  was  appointed,  if  possible, 
to  consider  and  arrange  matters  of  difference 
between  the  two  Conventions,  so  that  one 
Constitution  should  be  submitted  to  the 
people.  I  can  say,  sir,  for  one,  that  as  a  mem 
ber  of  the  committee  appointed  on  the  part  of 
this  Convention,  I  felt  that  the  business  com- 
mitted to  us  was  all  important  to  the  best 
interests  of  the  Territory  ;  and  I  can  say  that 
my  colleagues,  the  members  of  the  committee 
on  our  part,  each  and  every  one  of  them, 
worked  assiduously  to  bring  about  the  object 
of  their  appointment.     I  think  I  shall  be  sus- 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— TntiBSDAV,  August  57. 


561 


tained,  when  I  say  here  that  I,  as  one  of  that 
committee,  worked  all  the  time  for  that  end, 
and  that  only. 

On  the  twenty-fifth  instant  tlie  occurrence 
took  place,  which  has  prevented  my  being  in 
that  committee  room  since.  It  was  a  personal 
assault  on  me  by  Ex-Governor  Gormax.  The 
facts  in  the  case  I  wish  to  state  now  ;  and  1 
shall  state  them  as  they  exist,  and  not  to  cor- 
respond with  the  distorted  shape  in  which 
they  have  appeared  under  the  hand  of  some- 
body on  the  opposite  side. 

I  see,  sir,  in  the  Pioneer  ami  Democrat,  of 
yesterday  morning,  a  statement  purporting  to 
be  facts  in  this  case,  but  which  are  real  false- 
hoods, which  I  have  no  doubt  were  indited 
by  Ex-Governor  Gorman  himself,  for  no  one 
else  could  hardly  have  used  such  license  of 
language.    This  paper  says  : 

"  Mr.  WiLSOK,  throughout  the  sessions  of  the 
committee,  has  exhibited  the  most  ultra  partisan 
spirit,  and  manifested  a  disposition,  by  the  use  of 
ungentlemanly  language,  and  ascribing  motives 
to  members  of  an  almost  criminal  character,  to 
provoke  a  personal  collision.  Yesterday,  in  a  dis- 
cussion with  Judge  Sherburxe,  he  made  use  of 
language  very  insulting  in  its  character.  Up«n 
an  explanation  being  demanded,  he  withdrew  the 
language  so  far  as  the  Judge  was  concerned,  but 
stated  that  it  remained  applicable  to  other  Demo- 
cratic members  of  the  joint  commfttee.  Mr. 
KDfGSBCET  demanded  the  withdrawal  of  the  lan- 
guage as  applicable  to  him ;  the  demand  was  con- 
ceded." 

Now,  sir,  there  were  two  points  before  the 
committee  upon  which  I  was  more  sti'enuous 
than  any  other  member  of  the  committee,  and 
but  two  points.  One  of  these  points  was 
with  reference  to  our  judicial  system ;  and  I 
believe  few  will  censure  the  position  I  took ; 
for  the  very  point  of  difference  which  was 
made  against  me  in  the  committee  has  been 
since  changed,  as  I  am  credibly  informed,  to 
my  views  by  the  Democrats  themselves. 
Their  own  Convention  having  taken  up  these 
points  of  mine  and  adopted  them  of  their 
own  accord,  the  public  can  judge  from  this 
fact  whether  I  was  right  or  WTOng. 

The  other  point  was  to  the  districting  of  the 
State  for  Congressmen.  The  position  which 
I  took  here,  I  insisted  upon  strenuously. 
But  I  never  heard  any  person  take  exception 
the  language  I  used  in  m^ng  my  views.  I 
was  in  earnest,  certainly — nothing  more ;  and 
when  any  one  will  say  I  was  insulting,  they 
71 


willfully  falsifv'.  It  is  well  known  that  our 
State  reaches  from  the  British  Possessions  on 
the  North,  to  tlie  Iowa  line.  It  is  well  known 
that  the  northern  part  of  the  State  has  inte- 
rests diverse  from  the  southern  part.  It  is 
also  well  known  that,  in  these  two  divisions 
of  the  State  we  are  divided  in  feeling  as  well 
as  interest ;  and  that,  therefore,  each  portion 
of  the  State  would  prefer  to  choose  its  own 
Congressmen ;  and  that  the  people  of  these 
divisions  of  the  State  would  be  most  likely 
to  be  pleased  with  such  an  apportionment.  I 
insisted  upon  this  course  very  earnestly,  as 
my  colleagues  know.  But  I  was  voted  down 
in  the  committee ;  and  then  I  gave  it  up,  and 
had  nothing  further  to  say. 

These  two  are  the  only  points  upon  which 
I  insisted,  that  our  committee  did  not  go  with 
tte  as  far  as  I  went.  If  censure  fell  upon 
any^other  measure  adopted,  it  must  rest  with 
them  as  well  as  with  me.  Every  man  on  our 
part  acted  openly  and  ingenuously,  upon  every 
question.  I  dare  any  Democrat  to  open  the 
record  of  that  committee,  and  show  that  we 
have  not,  from  first  to  last,  each  one  of  us, 
acted  the  open  and  manly  part.  Our  com- 
mittee, sir,  have  done  their  duty.  We  insis- 
ted that  they  should  lay  down  every  feeling 
and  prejudice  as  members  of  a  party,  and 
act  for  the  common  good ;  and  no  one  can 
show  anything  from  our  proceedings  like  a 
departure  from  that  rule  on  our  part. 

The  committee  had  found  out,  before  the 
day  this  encounter  took  place,  that  we  could 
not  agree  upon  one  Constitution,  and  they 
were  working  with  a  view  to  the  submission 
of  two  Constitutions  on  the  same  day,  in  such 
a  manner  that  the  electoral  oflBcers  might  not 
come  into  conflict.  There  was  a  proposition 
mkde  by  a  member  of  the  Democratic  side, 
and  insisted  on  by  Ex-Governor  Gorman,  that 
there  should  be  three  different  ballots  and 
no  more.  So  that  by  one  you  might  vote  for 
the  Republican  Constitution,  by  the  second 
you  might  vote  for  the  Democratic  Constitu- 
tion, and  by  the  third  you  might  vote  against 
both  Constitutions.  These  were  the  only 
three  ballots  or  classes  of  ballots  to  be  allowed 
by  the  proposition.  It  was  further  stated  m 
the  same  resolution,  that  every  vote  cast  for 
the  Democratic  Constitution  should  be  con- 
sidered and  counted  as  cast  against  the  Re- 
publican  Constitution,  and   that  every  vote 


562 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATE^— Thursday,  August  27. 


cast  for  the  Rcpublician  Constitution  should 
be  considered  and  counted  as  cast  against  the 
Democratic  Constitution.  This  imposition 
was  objected  to — I  believe  by  myself— at 
any  rate  by  some  member  of  our  committee, 
that  that  mode  of  counting  the  votes  was  one 
which  would,  almost  to  a  certainty  result  in 
the  defeat  of  both  Constitutions,  from  the 
fact,  that  the  number  of  votes  cast  against 
both  Constitutions,  together  with  the  number 
of  votes  cast  for  any  one,  would  to  a  moral 
certainty  be  far  gi-eater  than  the  number  of 
votes  cast  in  favor  of  either  Constitution — 
thereby  making  almost  certain  that  both 
would  be  rejected.  This  objection  was  too 
apparent  to  be  resisted.  It  was  too  apparent 
to  be  supported  by  even  Governor  Gorman, 
though  I  doubt  not  he  approved  of  it  tacitly, 
for  he  does  many  things  which  do  not  frass 
for  his  in  the  pubUc  journals— and  in  keeping 
with  his  course ;  for  it  has  been  most  evident 
throughout,  that  his  sole  object  was  to  break 
up  the  conference  without  agreeing  oif  one 
Constitution,  and  set  us  out  before  the  world 
Avith  two  Constitutions  in  this  stormy  man- 
ner. Ex-Governor  Gorman  knows  that  when 
the  means  of  excitement  fail  him,  he  dies  po- 
litically. He  knows  that  every  honest,  think- 
ing man,  of  each  party  despises  him  as  he 
does  the  devil ;  and  that  his  only  strength 
consists  in  keeping  up  a  public  turmoil,  and 
keeping  away  from  the  people  any  special 
knowledge  of  his  individual  merit. 

It  was  then  proposed  by  Ex-Uovernor  Gor- 
man that  every  vote  cast  in  favor  of  either 
Constitution  should  be  considered  as  a  vote 
cast  in  favor  of  a  State  government ;  and  this 
was  seconded  by  one  of  their  committtee. 
When  this  was  insisted  upon,  I  remarked  that 
I  thought  that  was  worse  still ;  for  by  it,  it 
seemed  we  were  to  come  into  the  Union  with 
a  State  government  organized  under  a  Con- 
stitution which  had  received  the  approval  of 
but  a  mmority  of  the  voters  of  the  State. 
It  was  an  inconsistent,  self-contradictory  pro- 
position, and  we  could  have  no  right  to  author- 
ize any  such  thing.  The  general  government 
would  take  no  notice  of  a  Constitution  that 
had  received  only  the  votes  of  a  minority. 
But  the  Ex-Govemor  ever  pretending  to  be 
thoroughly  versed  in  Pariiamentary  usages, 
called  for  the  previous  question  in  the  com- 
mittee. 


Judge  Sherburne  coming  into  the  room  a 
few  minutes  afterward,  I  stated  to  him,  that 
my  position  was  this :  that  every  voter  should 
be  permitted  to  vote,  singly,  for  or  against  the 
Republican  Constitution,  and  for  or  against 
the  Democratic  Constitution ;  and  that  by  no 
possible  construction  should  any  vote  be  con- 
sidered and  taken  to  mean  what  the  voter 
never  intended  it  should  mean.  I  made  a 
few  other  remarks  which  I  do  not  now  re- 
collect.    We  then  adjourned  till  after  dinner. 

As  to  the  lie  alleged  by  the  Ex-Governor 
to  have  been  given  to  himself  in  the  forenoon 
— I  would  certainly  remember  the  fact  had  I 
made  such  remark,  and  1  here  unhesitatingly 
say  there  was  no  such  thing  said,  imputed  or 
thought  by  me.  Nothing  of  the  kind.  I 
do  not  believe  his  own  friends  will  support  his 
allegation.  I  feel  assured  that  every  man  of 
our  committee  (though  I  have  not  spoken  to 
one  of  them  on  the  subject,)  will  bear  me  out 
in  this  statement  so  far  as  they  know,  and  it 
must  have  been  said  in  their  presence  if  at 
all.  But  such  statements  may  be  expected 
from  a  man  who  has  been  considered  and 
Wanded  by  his  own  party  leaders  in  this  citj', 
as  a  liar — a  man  whom,  if  the  statements  of 
his  own  party  be  true,  infamy  itself  could 
not  but  tiatter. 

But  to  the  point.  When  our  committee 
met  again  in  the  afternoon,  the  Ex-Governor 
fell  back  on  his  dignity,  and  declared  that  his 
party  had  done  everything  that  they  could  do, 
that  they  had  originated  everything  and  we 
had  merely  torn  down.  Now  he  considered 
their  personal  dignity  required,  that  they 
should  make  no  more  propositions.  Mr. 
Kingsbury  had  made  a  proposition  that  morn- 
ing, and  he  appealed  to  him,  but  Mr.  Kings- 
bury said  he  would  re-offer  his  proposi- 
tion. He  made  the  same  appeal  to  others  of 
his  side,  that  any  further  proposition  must 
come  from  our  side.  At  this  time,  one  or 
two  of  the  committee  asked  me  to  propose  a 
plan.  I  remarked,  that  I  had  proposed  a 
plan  in  the  morning  which,  I  thought  the  only 
true  and  correct  one. 

Judge  Sherburne  remarked  to  me,  using 
this  language:  "I  think,  Mr.  Wilson,  you 
"  are  drawing  too  refined  a  distinction,  and 
"your  proposition,  if  carried  out,  would  be 
"ridiculous;"  and  went  on  to  state  his  objec- 
tion in  a  very  candid  manner,  taking  occasion 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Thursday,  August  2?, 


563 


also  to  compliment  my  opinins,  and  say  he 
meant  no  disrespect  in  saying  my  proposi- 
tion was  ridiculous.  I  remarked  then  in  re- 
ply :  "If  you  really  think  so,  I  have  so  much 
"  confidence  in  your  judgment  and  candor,  I 
"  shall  doubt  my  position ;"  and  went  on  to 
explain.  I  stated  plainly  and  frankly  what 
I  thought  I  saw  would  be  the  result  to  follow 
the  course  proposed.  I  was  not  going  to  dis- 
guise it ;  it  would  deprive  the  Republicans  of 
a  large  vote.  The  Democratic  Constitution 
says  that  a  certain  subject  should  not  be  sub- 
mitted to  the  people  with  this  Constitution, 
for  their  approval  or  rejection ;  nor  should 
the  Legislature  have  the  power  of  submitting 
it  to  the  people  at  any  future  tune. 

Now,  does  not  every  man  in  this  committee 
know,  that  one-third  of  the  Republican  part}"- 
would  imder  no  circumstances  vote  for  such 
a  Constitution  ?  And  I  stated  there  that  I 
was  one  who  never  would  consent  that  the 
people  should  be  gagged  on  any  subject. 
"  Do  not  }'ou.  Judge  Sherbubse,  see,  that  it 
"  will  cause  at  least  a  third  of  the  Republi- 
"  can  party  to  refuse  to  vote  for  their  own 
"  Constitution,  from  the  fact  that  here  is  such 
"  a  proposition  that  if  the  Democratic  Consti- 
"  tution  receives  more  votes  than  the  Repub- 
"  lican  Constitution,  the  votes  for  the  Repub- 
"  lican  Constitution  must  be  turned  in  and 
"  counted  in  favor  of  a  State  government  un- 
"  der  the  so-called  Democratic  Constitution  ? 
"  In  effect,  it  tells  the  Republicans,  that  their 
"  votes  shall  be  counted  first  in  favor  of  their 
"  own  Constitution,  and  secondly  in  favor  of 
"  the  Democratic  Constitution."  Such  was 
my  language  in  substance.  I  told  them  that 
our  party  would  not  consent  to  any  such 
tiling ;  that  it  was  not  fair  to  ask  it ;  and  that 
there  was  no  use  to  talk  about  it  further. 
Judge  Shebbukxe  remarked,  "  I  was  not  in 
"  when  the  proposition  was  made,  and  I  cer- 
"  tainly  misapprehended  your  remarks."  He 
had  said,  as  I  stated  before,  that  my  proposi- 
tion, if  carried  out,  was  certainly  ridiculous. 
Ex-Governor  Goemax,  with  whom  I  had  dis- 
cussed the  matter  fully,  in  the  morning,  rose 
up  from  a  reclining  posture  and  said, "  If  you 
' '  misapprehended.  Judge,  there  are  a  num- 
"  ber  in  your  crowd" — or  words  to  that  effect. 
I  knew  he  understood  me,  and  wished  to  put 
false  construction  upon  it,  by  an  insulting  in- 
uendo,  that  I  had  wilfully  changed  the  pro- 


position, or  that  the  proposition  was  simply 
ridiculous.  I  replied,  "  There  are  some  gen- 
"tlemen  that  I  wish  would  always  misunder- 
"  stand  me  ;  I  prefer  to  chose  my  own  com- 
"  pardons."  Those,  I  think,  are  the  verj- 
words  I  used.  As  to  Judge  Sherbckne  feel- 
ing insulted  and  demanding  an  explanation, 
it  is  a  flat  lie,  got  up  by  those  who  retail  it, 
whoever  they  may  be — an  unmitigated  lie. 
Judge  Shebburxe,  I  am  confident,  will  state 
that  fact,  if  called  upon.  To  him  I  appeal  in 
confidence ;  and  what  man,  pretending  to  be 
a  man,  would  state,  thfough  the  public  jour- 
nal, what  his  own  political  friends  must  know 
to  be  false.  How  much  of  a  man  is  he  ?  I 
made  the  remark  I  above  stated,  and  Gover- 
nor Gorman  rose  up  and  asked  me  if  I 
meant  him,  by  that  remark.  I  told  him, 
"  Certainly."  I  spoke  it  out  flatly,  with  no 
reserve.  I  was  sitting  behind  a  round  table, 
in  the  comer  of  the  room.  I  had  been  sitting 
a  few  minutes  before  with  my  feet  upon  the 
table,  and  whether  I  was  in  that  position  at 
the  moment,  I  do  not  certainly  know.  Those 
present  say  I  was,  and  my  recollection  is 
that  I  was.  He  took  his  cane — every  man 
knows  it  was  a  heavy  cane — and  struck  me 
over  the  head  before  I  could  place  myself  in 
a  position  to  defend  myself  I  was  then  in  a 
position  in  which  I  could  not  defend  myself 
in  any  possible  way — I  was  struck  to  the 
floor,  and  as  I  rose  and  saw  this  man — the 
most  consummate  and  the  basest  coward  I 
ever  saw  in  my  life — diagonally  across  the 
room.  I  picked  up  a  fragment  of  his  cane, 
and  finding  it  no  use  for  my  purpose,  I  seized 
my  own,  when  I  saw  him  drinking  away 
into  the  corner  of  the  room,  arid  crying, 
"  don't  let  him  strike  me  with  that  cane." 
He  immediately  left  the  room.  Where  he 
went  I  do  not  know — my  friends  could  not 
ascertain — and,  as  I  imderstand,  continued  in 
some  place  around  the  Capitol  until  nearly 
dark,  and  then,  with  two  men  in  his  buggy  to 
guard  him,  went  home. 

Now,  I  state  the  fiicts,  without  coloring 
and  without  any  exaggerated  particulars,  as 
members  of  that  committee  must  know.  The 
insult  first  came  from  Ex-Governor  Gorman 
— more  insulting  because  in  ambiguous  phrase. 
As  to  those  statements  I  made  there,  as  be- 
ing insulting  to  Governor  Gorman.  I  under- 
stand he  said  he  would  do  the  same  thing 


564  MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Thursday,  August  27. 


again,  upon  a  repetition  of  them.  I  repeat 
them  here ;  I  repeat  them  to  the  fullest  ex- 
tent, and  I  say,  when  I  repeat  and  reiterate 
them,  that,  though  almost  a  non-resistant  in 
practice — though  I  am  not  a  quarrelsome 
man,  though  not  a  brave  or  a  strong  man,  I 
hold  myself  personally  responsible  for  every 
word  I  utter.  Now  that  cowardly,  miserable 
poltroon  may  take  that  up,  but  I  prophecy 
he  will  not,  unless  he  can  get  me  in  some  po- 
.sition  where  I  cannot  defend  myself,  or  unless 
there  are  half  a  dozen  men  to  guard  him  from 
being  struck  "  with  that  cane." 

But  this  morning  appears  another  state- 
ment in  the  papers.  It  is  ridiculous  to  make 
.such  a  statement,  as  every  man  who  knows 
anything  about  it,  knows  to  be  utterly  false. 
What  he  can  mean,  I  hardly  know.  But 
perhaps  I  can  surmise.  That  man  is  not 
known  so  well  abroad,  as  he  is  h^re.  He 
does  not  make  those  statements  to  be  used  in 
St.  Paul,  for  he  is  known  here.  Every  raan^ 
knows  what  his  reputation  iS  in  the  city  of 
St.  Paul.  His  statements  will  have  no  effect 
here,  one  way  or  the  other.  He  does  not 
make  them  for  this  latitude.  He  makes  them 
for  the  districts  where  the  facts  cannot  go, 
and  where  he  thinks  his  paper  will  be  circu- 
lated.    What  does  he  say  ? 

"They  were  promptly  separated,  and  while  two 
persons  were  holding  Mr.  Gorman,  Mr  Wilson 
seized  a  large  lead-headed  cane  and  approached 
Mr.  Gorman,  when  Mr.  Gorman  said — " 

Now  as  to  that,  we  were  standing  opposite 
to  each  other  across  the  room.  There  were 
a  number  of  men  close  around  me  to  prevent 
me  from  crossmg  to  him,  and  he  upon  the 
other  side  of  the  room,  evidently  very  much 
alarmed  for  his  safety,  no  person  holding  hit  a 
or  having  a  hand  upon  him.  For  all  that 
matter,  all  that  was  necessary  was  to  hold 
him  from  jumping  out  of  the  window.  But  I 
read  further  from  the  speech : 

"  When  Gorman  said,  'don't  hold  me  until  he 
'  strikes  me  with  that  cane.  If  he  does,  I  will 
'  make  a  more  summary  defence  than  I  have.'  " 

I  submit  here  Mr.  President,  that  tliis 
thing  is  simply  ridiculous  if  intended  for  home 
consumption.  But  it  was  not  intended  for 
home  consumption,  but  to  be  sent  abroad. — 
1  venture  the  assertion  here  that  there  is  not 
A  member  of  that  committee  that  will  not,  if 
you  ran  get  them  to  speak  at  all  in  reference 


to  that  transaction,  unequivocally  declare  that 
that  declaration  is  false.  I  said  he  cried,  and 
cried  out  with  pathos  and  feeling,  "  don't  let 
him  strike  me  with  that  cane" — not  a  word 
more,  not  a  word  less,  and  the  recollection  of 
the  members  of  that  committee  agree  vi-ith 
my  own.  It  is  false,  sir;  and  for  all  the 
statements  I  make  here,  I  am  responsible — 
for  every  one  of  them.     It  is  false,  sir. 

Thus  ended  the  matter.  Now  as  to  the 
object  for  which  that  committee  was  appoint- 
ed. I  have  not  a  particle  of  doubt,  and  not  a 
member  of  this  body,  and,  so  far  as  I  know, 
but  very  few  in  the  other  wing  of  the  Capitol 
— certainly  not  many  among  the  candid  and 
honorable  men  of  that  body — have  expressed 
a  doubt  but  that  the  secret  object  of  that  gen- 
tleman has  been,  all  through,  to  prevent  any 
sort  of  an  arrangement  being  made  between 
the  two  Conventions.  As  I  said  before,  he 
lives  in  a  storm.  He  lives  where  the  atten- 
tion of  the  community  is  distracted  and  drawn 
from  the  man,  to  other  circumstances.  He 
knows  that  he  can  do  nothing  when  men  look 
calmly  at  the  man  who  wishes  to  be  sent  to 
the  United  States  Senate.  That  is  under- 
stood by  him. 

Now  as  to  the  action  of  that  committee. 
When  that  committee  took  their  seats  in  the 
committee  room  to  endeavor  to  arrange  this 
matter,  and  to  agree  upon  one  Constitution  to 
be  submitted  to  the  people,  as  the  resolution 
under  which  we  were  appointed,  declared  it 
our  duty  to  do,  the  very  first  word  said 
was  by  W.  A.  Gorman.  He  said: — "  Gentle- 
"  men :  I  know  one  thing ;  there  is  no  use  in 
"  trying  to  agree  upon  one  Constitution ;  we 
"  can  never  do  it,"  or  words  to  that  import. — 
That  man  goes  out  then  into  the  other  wing 
of  this  capitol  and  makes  a  long  speech,  show- 
ing that  he  was  in  favor  of  agreeing  upon  one 
Constitution.  I  say  that  the  first  words  said 
in  that  committee  room  was  that  very  declar- 
ation of  Willis  A.  Gorman.  Our  committee 
said  they  came  there  for  that  purpose,  and 
nothing  else.  His  own  committee  declared 
that  they  came  there  to  try  to  accomplish 
that  end.  Upon  that,  seeing  he  was  not  sus- 
tained by  his  own  committee,  he  sits  down 
and  says  "Gentlemen,  I  have  some  knotty 
points  I  want  to  present."  And  what  is  the 
first  resolution,  or  about  the  first  resolution 
he  presents?    That  the  Constitution  agreed 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Friday,   August  28. 


565 


upon  by  the  joint  committee,  shall  be  signed 
by  the  Hon.  H.  H.  Sibli;v,  as  President^  and 
by  all  the  admitted  members  save  some  in 
our  own  body  whom  they  declare  are  not  le- 
gally elected.  Who  believes  that  a  man,  who 
could  offer  such  an  insulting  resolution — a 
resolution  which  everj-body  sees,  strikes  at 
the  very  root  of  the  compromise — can  be  other- 
wise than  opposed  to  a  compromise  ? 

And  when  it  was  declared  by  the  commit- 
tee that  they  did  not  want  to  listen  to  any 
such  thing,  he  goes  to  work  to  get  up  some 
other  knotty  point,  as  he  caUs  it.  I  have  not 
a  particle  of  doubt,  that  if  he  had  not  been 
in  the  Convention,  there  never  would  have 
been  a  split  in  the  Constitutional  Convention. 
Does  anybody  believe  otherwise  ?  ["  No- 
body, nobody."]  I  know,  too,  that  in  the 
other  wing  of  the  Capitol,  a  similar  view  is  en- 
tertained among  their  best  men,  and  if  there 
had  been  an  honest  man  appointed  instead  of 
Gov.  GoBJiAX,  on  our  joint  committee,  who 
meant  what  he  said,  I  have  no  doubt  that 
one  Constitution  would  have  been  agreed 
upon  long  ago,  and  I  have  no  doubt  that  if  he 
keeps  away,  that  committee  will  yet  agree 
upon  one  Constitution.  He  has  been  the 
bane  of  everything. 

I  speak  what  every  man  who  belongs  to 
the  Convention  knows,  and  for  it  I  am  res- 
ponsible. I  mean  what  I  say.  I  say  it  not 
in  passion.  I  say  what  circumstances  and 
positive  knowledge  will  bear  me  out  in. 

Thus  went  the  matter.  I  need  not  make 
any  buncombe  speech  in  this  Convention,  to 
satisfy  my  colleagues  here  around  me.  I  need 
not  take  the  course  that  gentlemen  took.  I 
know  the  feeling  of  every  gentleman  in  this 
Hall.  I  know  what  they  think  of  my  course. 
I  say  nothing  in  regard  to  that.  I  only  speak 
of  those  base  falsehoods  which  have  gone  out 
through  the  paper.  I  shall  probably  at  some 
future  time  take  up  this  subject  and  analyze 
it  further,  but  at  present  I  need  say  no  more. 

REPORTS  PASSED. 

On  motion  of  Mr.  KING,  Report  number 
ten  on  Educational  Interests  was  taken  up, 
read  a  third  time  and  passed. 

The  Convention  then  took  a  recess  until 
half-past  two. 

AFTERNOON  SESSION. 

The  Convention  assembled  pursuant  to  ad- 
journment. 


EXPENSES   OF    THE    COJTS'ENTIOX. 

Mr.  COLBURN  offered  the  following  reso- 
lution which  was  adopted : 

"  Eesolved,  That  the  committee  on  Supplies  and 
Expenditures  be  required  to  report  to  the  Conven 
tion  all  bills  and  demands  against  the  Convention ; 
and  that  all  persons  having  demands  against  the 
Convention  be  required  to  present  the  same  to 
said  Convention." 

Mr.  MANTOR  submitted  the  following  res- 
olution, which  was  adopted : 

"  Resolved,  That  the  Secretary  of  this  Conven- 
tion be  allowed  an  extra  compensation  of  five  hun- 
dred dollars  for  all  services  which  he  may  be  re- 
quired to  perform  by  this  Convention,  after  the 
adjournment ;  and  that  said  sum  be  paid  out  of  the 
funds  appropriated  to  defray  the  expenses  of  this 
Convention." 

And  then,  on  motion  of  Mr.  MURPHY,  the 
Convention  adjourned. 


FORTY-FIRST  DAY. 

Friday,  August  28th,  1857. 
The  Convention  met  at  nine  o'clock  A.  M, 
Prayer  by  the  Chaplain,  Rev.  E.  D.  Neill. 
The  journal  of  yesterday  was  read  and 
approved. 

REPORT  OF  the    COMiflTTEE   OF   COXFEREXCE. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH,  from  the  Conference 
Committee,  submitted  the  following  paper  for 
the  first  report  from  the  joint  committee : 

"The  committee  of  Conference,  appointed  by 
the  two  Conventions,  to  agree  upon  a  single  Con- 
stitution, to  be  submitted  to  the  people,  respectfully 
submit  the  report  which  is  annexed.  The  com- 
mittee also  further  report,  that,  in  their  opinion, 
they  will  be  able  to  submit  8  final  report  at  ten 
o'clock,  this  day. 

M.  SHERBURNE,  Chairman. 

L.  K.  Staxkaed,  Sec'j/. 

JOSEPH  R.  BROWN. 
W.  HOLCOMBE, 
W.  W.  KINGSBURY, 
THOS.  J.  GALBRAITH, 
CYRUS  ALDRICH, 
CHARLES  McCLURE." 
The  report  annexed,  included  the  several 
articles  of  the  Constitution  which  appears  in 
the  Appendix,  with  the  exception  of  articles, 
"Schedule"  and  '-'Miscellaneous  Provisions," 
which  were  subsequently  reported  by  the 
same  committee  and  became  a  part  of  the 
first  report. 

The  report,  as  a  whole,  was  read  a  first 
and  second  time  and  referred  to  a  committee 
of  the  Whole. 


5G6 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  t)EBATES— Fbiday,"  August  28. 


On  motion  of  Mr.  HAYDEN,  the  rule  re- 
quiring the  report  to  be  printed,  was  sus- 
pended. 

Mr.  HAYDEN  moved  that  the  Convention 
resolve  itself  into  a  committee  of  the  Whole 
to  take  into  consideration  the  report  of  the 
committee  of  Conference. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  hope  we  shall  not  go 
into  the  committee  of  the  Whole  upon  that 
report.  We  shall  get  along  much  faster  by 
considering  it  in  Convention.  If  the  gentle- 
man will  withdraw  his  motion  I  will  move 
that  the  rules  be  suspended,  so  far  as  to  allow 
us  to  consider  tliis  report  in  Convention. 

Mr.  HAYDEN.  I  will  withdraw  my  mo- 
tion for  that  purpose. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  submit  the  motion  to 
suspend  the  rules  for  the  purpose  indicated. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to,  two-thirds  voting 
in  favor  thereof. 

Mr.  HAYDEN.  I  move  that  the  rule  be 
dispense^  with  which  requires  the  engross- 
ment of  this  report. 

The  PRESIDENT.  As  the  Convention 
have  dispensed  with  the  consideration  of  the 
report  in  the  committee  of  the  Whole,  the 
report  is  in  the  same  condition  as  though  it 
had  been  considered  in  Committee  of  the 
Whole,  and  been  reported  to  the  Convention. 
The  first  question  is  upon  the  engrossment  of 
the  report  for  a  third  reading. 

The  motion  of  Mr.  Hayden  was  agreed  to. 

The  question  'recurring  on  ordering  tlie 
report  to  be  read  a  third  time — 

Mr.  COLBURN  moved  that  the  report  be 
read  and  considered  article  by  article. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  I  hope  the  motion 
will  not  prevail,  for  I  understand  that  a  mo- 
tion has  been  adopted  that  this  report  should 
be  considered  as  a  whole  in  the  Convention, 
instead  of  in  committee  of  the  Whole.  Be- 
fore this  report  is  put  upon  its  final  passage, 
I  presume  I  may  have  something  to  say  in 
regard  to  its  merits  as  a  whole.  It  will  con- 
sume considerable  time  to  consider  this  report 
section  by  section ;  and  not  only  that,  but  it 
will  be  embarrassing.  I  understand  that  it 
is  before  us  as  the  report  of  the  Conference 
committee,  and  that  if  it  is  adopted,  the 
whole  of  it  must  l)e  adopted,  and  that  if  it  is 
njected,  the  whole  of  it  must  be  rejected. 
For  that  I  desire  that  it  should  be  considered 
as  a  wliole. 


Mr.  GALBRAITH.  I  think  the  best  way 
is  to  consider  it  as  a  \yhole — to  read  it  article 
by  article,  that  members  may  have  an  oppor- 
tunity to  express  their  views  upon  it  as  we 
proceed.  We,  as  members  of  the  committee 
who  made  the  report,  may  be  compelled  to 
say  something,  but  we  do  not  desire  to  con- 
sume the  time  of  the  Convention  unless  we 
are  called  upon.  We  submit  it  as  a  whole 
report.  Let  it  be  read  as  such,  and  whenever 
we  come  to  a  point  upon  which  any  member 
wishes  to  say  anything,  I  am  sure  no  one  will 
object  to  spending  the  time  necessary  to  do 
so. 

Mr,  McCLURE.  We  have  submitted  this 
as  one  report.  If  it  is  amended  in  any  man- 
ner or  form,  that  amendment  knocks  the 
whole  compromise  in  the  head.  There  is  no 
necessity  of  reading  it  section  by  section,  or 
taking  separate  votes  upon  those  sections, 
because  gentlemen  can,  without  that,  just  as 
well  point  out  those  difficulties  which  occur 
to  their  minds.  It  will  also  afford  less  oppor- 
tunity for  speaking,  and  though  I  want  to 
hear  my  friend  fi'om  Steele  county  (Mr. 
CoGGSWELL,)  yet  if  he  has  any  objection  to 
the  report,  I  want  to  hear  him  object  to  it  as 
a  whole. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  The  only  object  of  my 
motion  was  to  expedite  business.  I  under- 
stand that  it  is  necessary  that  this  Constitu- 
tion shall  be  written  out  upon  parchment 
before  it  is  signed.  Now  if  we  pass  upon  the 
first  article,  it  may  be  placed  in  the  hands  of 
the  person  employed  to  engross  it  upon  parch- 
ment, while  we  are  proceeding  to  the  discus- 
sion and  consideration  of  other  articles.  But 
if  we  discuss  it  as  a  whole  that  cannot  be 
done  until  we  get  through  with  it. 

Mr.  McCLURE.  Suppose  you  adopt  all 
except  the  very  last  article  and  reject  that, 
then  the  trouble  and  expense  of  writing  out 
all  the  former  articles  is  thrown  away. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  There  may  be  some 
things  wliich  this  Convention  might  recjucst 
the  committee  to  change,  and  which  the  com- 
mittee might  change  upon  request,  and  to  the 
satifaction  of  both  Conventions.  We  might 
not  insist  uj)on  such  changes  as  are  ultima- 
tum, but  tliey  might  be  made  by  mutual 
agreement. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  The  joint  committee 
is  not  discharged,  and  if  the  Convention  see 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES—Friday,  August  28. 


567 


fit  to  request  alteration  to  be  made,  the  com-  I 
mittce  upon  the  part  of  this  body,  will  make 
the  change  with  pleasure.  I  would  say, 
however,  that  the  committee  have  had  a 
labor  to  arrive  at  the  result  they  have,  and 
every  change  will  involve  the  necessity  of 
making  every  other  article  of  the  Constitution 
conform  with  the  one  changed.  There  was 
an  alteration  made  in  one  article  this  morning, 
and  it  required  us  to  make  changes  in  three 
other  articles.  My  idea  is  that  we  should 
deal  vrith  this  report  as  one  entire  thing.  If 
we  amend  one  single  clause,  and  the  commit- 
tee, or  the  other  Convention  disagi'ee  to  it, 
and  we  hold  out,  we  kill  the  whole  report. 
We  must  adopt  it  as  a  whole,  or  reject  it  as 
a  whole. 
—Mr.  COLBURN.     I  withdraw  my  motion. 

The  question  again  recurred  on  ordering 
the  report  to  be  read  a  third  time. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  I  move  that  the  rules 
limiting  debate  to  fifteen  minutes  be  so  far 
suspended  as  to  allow  each  member  to  speak 
upon  thLs  question  as  long  as  he  thinks 
proper. 

Mr.  PERKINS.  I  hope  the  motion  wiU 
not  prevail.  We  have,  most  of  us,  been  here 
six  or  seven  weeks  without  having  returned 
to  our  homes  or  business,  and  although  it 
may  be  pleasant  and  agreeable  to  a  man  who 
has  been  home  with  his  famUy  for  a  week  or 
fortnight,  and  being  refi'eshed,  has  come  back 
for  another  campaign,  to  go  into  the  details 
of  this  matter  again,  and  to  make  long 
speeches;  yet  I  apprehend  that  it  will  not 
be  a  very  agreeable  thing  to  the  majority  of 
this  Convention,  for  I  am  confident  that  a 
large  part  of  this  Convention  are  disposed  to 
leave  for  home  this  week.  I,  at  least,  pro- 
pose to  leave  to  night,  and  I  certainly  shall 
if  this  motion  prevails,  and  there  is  a  prospect 
of  om"  having  inflicted  upon  us  speeches  run- 
ning through  one  or  two  weeks.  I  think  for 
the  sake  of  having  the  Constitution  adopted, 
and  speedily  adopted,  we  had  better  dispense 
with  hour  speeches,  and  at  any  rate,  limit  them 
to  fifteen  minutes.  In  that  way  we  may  be 
able  to  go  home  soon  and  honorably,  having  ac- 
complished the  work  we  were  sent  here  to  do. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  So  far  as  I  am  con- 
cerned, I  have  no  objections  to  the  gentle- 
man's going  home,  and  staying  at  home  just 
as  long  as  he  sees  fit  and  proper,  just  as  I  did. 


But  it  does  seem  to  me  that  we  should  have 
some  little  time  to  canvass  the  merits  of  this 
report,  and  that  those  who  have  necessarily 
been  absent  at  their  homes  for  a  few  days, 
should  be  allowed  some  little  time  in  which  to 
express  their  views  and  sentiments  in  regard 
to  this  matter.  I  understood,  last  night,  that 
that  it  was  the  intention  of  this  Convention 
to  caiTy  this  report  right  through  under  the 
operation  of  the  previous  question.  Perhaps 
that  may  be  their  intention,  but  I  wish  it  dis- 
tinctly understood,  if  it  is  the  object  of  this 
Convention  to  ram  this  report  down  the 
throats  of  certain  members  of  this  Conven- 
tion, who  do  not  happen  to  agree  to  certain 
details  of  it,  they  may  possibly  hear  from 
those  gentleman  before  the  thing  is  finally 
ratified  by  the  p?ople.  So  far  as  I  am  con- 
cerned, I  would  like  the  privilege  of  express- 
ing my  views  «nd  sentiments  in  regard  to  it. 
There  are  some  portions  of  it  I  like  very  well, 
and  other  portions  of  it  I  dislike  very  much. 

In  regard  to  accomplishing  our  work  and 
going  home  ^vith  some  little  honor,  I  am  in- 
clined to  think  it  is  pretty  late  in  the  day  to 
talk  about  going  home  honorabl}' — rather 
late  in  the  day  to  talk  of  having  achieved  an 
honorable  work,  and  claiming  from  our  con- 
constituents  any  considerable  degree  of  credit. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  No  man  in  this  Con- 
vention would  be  more  willing  than  myself  to 
allow  every  member  to  speak  upon  this 
subject.  We  now  have  a  rule  that  a  member 
can  speak  longer  than  fifteen  minutes  by  the 
consent  of  the  Convention.  Let  the  Conven- 
tion grant  its  unanimous  consent,  when  it  is 
asked  for.  I  can  say  to  the  gentleman  fi-om 
Steele  coimty,  that  the  balance  of  this  Con- 
vention know  very  little  more  about  this 
report  than  he  does,  although  he  has  been 
absent.  When  tliis  report  is  read,  one  gen- 
tleman will  know  about  as  much  of  it  as 
another,  because  it  was  only  fairly  commenced 
day  before  yesterday  morning.  The  com- 
mittee desire  to  gag  no  one.  They  have 
made  the  report,  and  it  is  your  province  to 
deal  with  it  as  it  becomes  you.  We  desire 
not  to  dictate  in  the  matter.  Let  this  motion 
be  disposed  of,  and  as  chairman  of  the  com- 
mittee, I  can  state  in  five  minutes  the  reasons 
why  we  made  the  report,  and  then  gentlemen 
can  make  what  comments  they  choose  upon  it. 

Mr.  HAYDEN.     I  should  be  glad  to  hear 


668 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Friday,   August  28. 


gentlemen  give  their  reasons  for  or  against 
this  report,  and  I  think  my  friend  Coggsavell, 
who  is  somewhat  gifted  with  the  power  of 
speech,  can  express  his  views  in  ^fifteen  min- 
utes, so  that  we  shall  know  pretty  conclu- 
sively where  he  stands.  I  am,  therefore, 
opposed  to  the  pending  motion. 

But  I  do  not  like  to  hear  remarks  traducing 
the  honor  of  this  body.  I  do  not  know  Avhat 
the  gentleman  has  done  himself,  but  I  believe 
that  a  majority  of  this  body  feel  that  they 
have  done  the  best  possible  thing  for  their 
'  constituents  under  the  circumstances. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  would  move  to  amend 
the  motion  of  the  gentleman  from  Steele 
county,  so  as  to  provide  that  any  member  of 
the  Convention  may  have  the  privilege  of 
writing  out  his  remarks  in  full  and  submitting 
them  to  the  reporter. 

Mr.  McCLURE.  It  comes  with  iU-grace 
from  the  gentleman  who  has  just  taken  his 
seat,  after  having  occupied  so  much  time  of 
the  Convention  as  he  has,  to  try  to  gag  any 
member  of  the  Convention  just  at  this  time. 
Now  so  far  as  I  am  concerned,  I  coincide 
fully  with  my  friend  Coggswell.  We  have 
been  discussing  this  matter  for  almost  seven 
weeks.  Our  committee  of  Conference  now 
report  an  entire  Constitution,  differing  in  a 
great  many  respects  from  the  Constitution 
we  had  formed,  as  a  body,  and,  although  all 
are  anxious  to  return  to  their  homes,  and  none 
more  so  than  myself,  I  want  to  hear  every 
gentleman  upon  this  floor  make  a  speech,  just 
as  long  as  he  pleases,  upon  this  subject.  If 
gentlemen  who  have  made  up  their  minds  to 
vote  for  this  report,  do  not  think  proper  to 
say  anything  upon  that  side,  let  the  speeches 
come  from  the  other  side.  I  apprehend, 
however,  that  few  persons  will  want  to  make 
speeches.  Some  members  are  more  pecu- 
liarly situated  than  others,  and  I  hold  that  it 
is  the  duty  of  every  member  to  place  himself 
in  that  position  before  his  constituents  that  he 
can  go  home  and  meet  them,  conscious  of 
their  approval.  I  want  to  hear  my  friend 
CoGGSWEiJ..  I  do  not  think  ho  will  be  tedious. 
He  is  not  in  the  habit  of  making  long  speeches, 
but  I  am  willing  to  listen  just  as  long  as  he  is 
willing  to  speak  upon  this  subject.  I  am 
satisfied  that  there  is  something  peculiar 
about  his  constituents,  and  that  he  deems  it 
necessary,  in  order  to  place  himself  before 


his  constituents  as  he  should  be  placed,  to  give 
his  views  upon  this  subject.  Other  gentle- 
men may  be  in  the  same  predicament.  I 
hope  by  unanimous  consent  the  Convention 
will  suspend  the  rules,  and  give  each  member 
the  privilege  of  being  heard.  It  is  the  most 
important  matter  that  has  come  before  us 
since  the  commencement  of  our  session. 

Mr.  ROBBINS  called  for  the  yeas  and 
nays  on  the  motion. 

The  yeas  and  nays  were  ordered. 

The  question  was  taken,  and  it  was  decided 
in  the  negative,  yeas  twenty-three,  nays 
twenty-four,  as  follows . 

Yeas — Messrs.  Aldrich,  Bolles,  Cleghorn,  Coggs- 
well, Davis,  Foster,  Galbraith,  Gerrish,  Hanson, 
Holley,  King,  Kemp,  Lowe,  Mantor,  McCann,  Mc- 
Clure,  Peckham,  Bobbins,  Stannard,  Thompson, 
Watson,  Wilson  and  Mr.  President. — 23. 

Nays — Messrs.  Anderson,  Baldwin,  Bates,  Bar- 
tholomew, Billings,  Colburn,  Coe,  Cederstam, 
Coombs,  Duley,  Dickerson,  Hall,  Hayden,  Hard- 
ing, Lyle,  Messer,  Morgan,  Mills,  Murphy,  Phelps, 
Peckam,  Russell,  Secombe  and  Vaughn. — 24. 

So  the  Convention  refused  to  suspend  the 
rules. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  The  committee  of 
Conference  of  this  body,  as  this  Convention 
is  well  aware,  have  been  in  session  with  the 
committee  from  the  body  sitting  in  the  other 
chamber  of  the  Capitol,  for  some  considera- 
ble length  of  time.  It  has  been  the  object  of 
this  committee,  all  the  time,  to  arnve,  it  pos- 
sible, to  one  conclusion — the  adoption  of  one 
Constitution — considering  that  object  para- 
mount to  all  others  for  which  they  were 
created.  For  the  accomplishment  of  that 
object  the  committee  has  worked,  and  I  am 
satiflsed  that  every  member  of  it  has  been, 
and  is  now,  convinced  that  the  adoption  of 
one  jConstitution  is  paramount  to  all  other 
questions,  in  order  to  avoid  a  prospective  state 
of  anarchy.  It  is  too  late,  now,  to  talk  about 
the  past.  The  past  is  a  matter  of  history. 
It  is  a  matter  of  record.  If  \vrong  has  been 
committed,  that  is  no  reason  why  we  should 
not  do  right  above  all  other  things,  now.  Judg- 
ing by  the  sentiment  expressed  by  the  people 
of  thi8  Territory,  by  strangers  from  abroad, 
and  by  this  Convention,  what  conclusion  could 
wn  come  to  other  than  that  to  us  the  duty  of 
submitting  one  Constitution  is  paramount  to 
all  other  things  ?  This  is  the  ground  the  com- 
mittee took,  and  under  Heaven,  they  will 
stand  or  fall  by  the  position  they  have  taken. 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Fbidat,  ArocsT  28. 


569 


We  come  in  and  report  to  this  Convention 
one  Constitution,  and  only  one,  and  by  that 
Constitution  this  committee  stand  pledged 
novf  and  forever.  TVe  took  this  ground,  be- 
lieving that  the  Convention  would  sustain  our 
action  ;  and  we  know,  though  we  are  neither 
prophets,  nor  sons  of  prophets,  that  but  one 
voice  will  come  up  from  the  people  on  this 
subject,  which  is  and  which  will  be  this,  the 
making  of  one  Constitution  is  a  good  act. 

There  are  things  in  the  Constitution  we 
have  reported,  which  no  member  of  our  com- 
mittee approves  ;  and  there  are  also  things  in 
the  Constitution  adopted  by  this  Convention, 
which  a  large  minority,  and  perhaps  majority 
of  the  body  do  not  approve.  A  just  and 
proper  Constitution  must  express  the  aggre- 
gate of  the  views  of  the  people.  It  is  impos- 
sible for  men  of  diverse  views,  meeting  to 
form  a  Constitution  in  such  a  state  of  affairs 
as  the  present,  to  form  a  Constitution  which 
shall  please  everybody.  There  were  ten 
members  of  the  joint  committee,  and  no  two 
of  them  sitting  down  together,  could  think 
alike  on  all  subjects.  For  them  to  have  come 
together,  then,  it  must  have  been  by  assimi- 
lation, sacrifice,  compromise.  They  have 
done  the  best  they  could  under  the  circum- 
stances. We  have  now  submitted  our  report 
to  the  Convention.  Take  it  and  adopt  it  as  a 
whole,  if  you  can  ;  or  take  the  responsibility 
of  rejecting  it.  We  could  have  rejected  it  as 
members  of  the  committee,  because  of  objec- 
tionable features  to  every  man  from  this,  as 
well  as  from  the  other  Hall.  But  the  question 
for  all  is :  Is  it  not  as  good  a  Constitution 
as  we  could  get  under  the  circumstances? 
We  do  not  come  in  here  to  dictate  and  say  : 
Gentlemen  of  the  Convention  adopt  this  Con- 
stitution. We  do  no  such  thing;  but  we 
submit  it  for  your  kind  consideration,  and  if 
anything  better  can  be  done  than  to  adopt  it, 
under  the  circumstances,  none  will  be  better 
pleased  than  every  member  of  your  committee. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  I  voted  in  favor  of 
suspending  the  rules.  I  could  not  do  other-' 
wise  as  a  member  of  that  committee.  I  am 
not  disposed  to  have  the  acts  of  that  commit- 
tee forced  upon  this  Convention  in  any  man- 
ner, without  due  deliberation,  although  I  am 
as  anxious  as  any  member  of  this  Conven- 
tion that  the  report  should  be  adopted  as  it 
has  been  reported.  But  I  am  willing  that 
72 


gentlemen  should  speak  upon  the  subject  as 
they  desire,  and  cut  into  the  report  though 
the  chips  might  fly  into  my  own  fiice. 

Mr.  ALDRICH.  As  a  member  of  the 
committee,  I  felt  it  my  duty  to  vote  for  sus- 
pending the  rules.  Like  the  gentleman  who 
last  spoke,  I  am  in  &vor  of  giving  every 
gentleman  an  opportunity  of  expressing  his 
views  upon  the  report  of  the  committee. 
There  are  provisions  in  the  Constitution 
which  we  have  reported,  that  I  do  not  ap- 
prove ol^  and  could  I  have  had  my  own  way, 
they  would  not  have  been  there.  Some  of 
them  I  opposed  to  the  utmost  of  my  ability, 
though  other  gentlemen  took  a  different  view 
from  what  I  did.  They  were  gentlemen, 
however,  whose  opinion  I  am  bound  to  re- 
spect, and  whose  judgments  are  as  Ukely  to  be 
correct,  as  my  own.  Acknowledging,  however, 
the  right  of  the  majority  of  the  committee  to 
govern,  I  acquiesced  in  the  action  of  the 
committee.  It  now  remains  for  the  Conven- 
tion to  approve  or  reject  the  recommendation 
of  the  committee.  But  I  must  say  that  I 
think  if  we  do  reject  it,  we  will  be  assuming 
a  responsibility  larger  than  I  am  willing  to 
assume.  Gentlemen  must  recollect  that  the 
report  of  the  committee  is  the  result  of  com- 
promise and  concession,  and  concessions  made 
upon  both  sides.  I  hope,  however,  gentle- 
men will  have  the  opportunity  of  expressing 
themselves  fully,  whether  they  are  in  favor  of, 
or  opposed  to  the  report,  and  whether  they 
condemn  the  action  of  the  [committee,  or 
approve  of  it.  If  the  question  is  again  taken 
on  suspending  the  rules,  I  hope  every  gentle- 
man will  vote  for  it,  though  I  am  as  anxious 
to  complete  our  labors  as  any  man  upon  this 
floor. 

Mr.  MURPHY.  I  move  to  reconsider  the 
vote  by  which  the  Convention  refused  to  sus- 
pend the  rules. 

The  motion  to  reconsider  was  agreed  to, 
and  then  the  rules  were  suspended  (two 
thirds  voting  in  favor  ^thereof ) 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  I  desire  to  make  a 
few  remarks  upon  this  matter,  but  I  am  not 
exactly  prepared  to  make  them  until  after 
dinner.  I  have  some  papers  of  reference 
which  I  find  are  not  here. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  would  inquire  if  it  will 
be  in  order,  as  each  member  is  called  upon  to 
vote  upon  the  final  passage,  to  express  his 


570 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Feiday,  August  28. 


%  views,  giving  his  reasons  for  voting  one  way 
or  the  other. 

Mr.  FOSTER.  That  will  occupy  too  much 
time  in  calling  the  roll. 

The  PRESIDENT.  Common  usage  per- 
mits individuals,  when  their  names  are  called, 
to  make  a  simple  explanation ;  that  however 
would  not  allow  them  to  make  long  speeches. 

Mr.  MANTOR.  I  prefer,  before  this  report 
is  brought  to  a  third  reading,  that  it  should 
be  printed  and  laid  upon  the  desks  of  every 
member.  I  am  aware  however,  that  this  is  a 
very  unpalatable  idea. 

The  PRESIDENT.  The  Chair  would  in- 
form the  gentleman  that  during  his  absence  a 
motion  was  made  and  adopted  to  dispense 
with  the  engrossment  and  printing  of  the 
report. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  I  hope  we  shall  go  on 
and  dispose  of  this  matter  now  and  not  post- 
pone its  consideration  until  afternoon.  During 
the  session  of  our  committee,  members  were 
urging  us  to  work  all  the  time,  and  now  that 
we  have  done  our  part,  I  hope  the  Convention 
will  do  its  part. 

Mr.  KING.  I  move  that  the  Convention 
take  a  recess  until  half  past  two  o'clock. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  hope  not.  If  we  have 
anything  to  do  I  hope  the  Convention  will  go 
on  and  do  it,  and  if  we  have  nothing  to  do, 
that  we  shall  adjourn  without  day.  We  have 
spent  several  days  in  doing  nothing,  and  it  is 
time  we  were  doing  something. 

Mr.  RO'BBINS.  I  hope  it  will  be  carried. 
The  most  important  question  of  the  whole 
session  is  now  before  us,  and  I  think  we  ought 
to  take  some  action  outside  of  this  body  be- 
fore we  take  the  report  into  consideration  here. 
At  any  rate  I  think  we  should  have  a  few 
moments  to  reflect  upon  it  before  we  are 
called  upon  to  vote. 

Mr.  BILLINGS.  This  is  an  important 
question,  and  if  it  be  so,  should  we  not  dis- 
cuss the  subject  at  once  ?  Why  lose  two 
hours  on  the  last  day  of  the  session  in  idle- 
ness when  this  subject  is  legitimately  before 
us.  I  voted  against  a  su.spension  of  the  rules, 
believing  that  the  courtesy  of  the  Convention 
would  extend  the  time  of  speaking  to  any 
gentleman,  upon  request.  I  hope  we  shall 
proceed  at  bncc. 

The  Convention  refused  to  take  a  recess. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL,    As  I  have  had  but 


very  little  time  to  consider  this  report,  and 
to  examine  it  in  detail,  I  presume  I  am  not  as 
well  piepared  to  express  my  views  upon  it  as 
I  should  be,  provided,  I  had  had  a  longer  time. 
But  from  the  hurried  reading  I  have  given  it, 
I  am  prepared  to  say  that  I  shall  vote  against 
it,  and  as  I  seem  to  stand  almost  entirely 
alone  in  my.position  on  this  matter,  judging 
from  present  appearances,  I  desire  to  state 
some  of  the  reasons  why  I  shall  vote  against 
it. 

The  chairman  of  this  committee  of  Confer- 
ence has  told  us  that  the  great  and  para- 
mount question  now  before  this  Convention, 
is  the  submission  to  the  people  of  one  Con- 
stitution, that  the  committee  are  unanimous 
in  their  expression  of  preference  for  this  re- 
port, and  that  by  it  they  are  determined  to 
stand  or  fall.  Now,  Mr.  President,  there  is 
no  man  who  would  be  more  in  favor  of  unit- 
ing and  agi'eeing  upon  one  Constitution,  than 
I  would,  provided,  we  could  secure  our  rights 
— rights  which  we  claimed  when  we  first  came 
into  St.  Paul;  rights  which  wc  claimed  when 
we  organized  this  Convention ;  rights  which 
we  heralded  all  over  the  world  as  being  rights 
which  belonged  peculiarly  and  exclusively  to 
the  majority.  But  I  am  satisfied  that  this 
report  does  not  secure  to  us  our  rights,  and 
for  that  reason  I  shall  vote  against  it.  Sir, 
we  are  told  by  the  chairman  of  the  committee 
that  what  has  been  done  has  become  a  mat- 
ter of  history,  that  we  ought  not  to  look  back 
to  see  what  has  taken  place,  but  that  we 
should  look  ahead  to  the  future  prosperity 
and  happiness  of  the  people  of  this  Territory. 
Sir,  I  am  one  of  those  individuals  that  love, 
upon  certain  occasions,  to  look  back  and  see 
what  kind  of  a  track  I  have  made.  I  am  one 
of  those  individuals  who  believe  there  is  such 
a  word  as  "  consistency"  in  the  English  lan- 
guage, and  that  upon  certain  occa.sions  it  is 
our  duty  to  look  back  and  see  what  positions 
we  have  previously  occupied,  what  sentiments 
we  have  previously  heralded  to  the  world, 
and  what  doctrines  we  have  previously  preach- 
ed. 

Now  sir,  we  came  here  claiming  that  we 
had  a  majority  of  this  Convention.  Did  we 
not?  When  wo  came  here  wo  said  that, 
being  a  majority,  we  had  the  right  to  rule  and 
control  this  Convention.  Did  we  not?  Did 
wo  not  say|that  wo  had  fifty-eight  ^members 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Pbidat,  August  28. 


571 


who  held  credentials  lair  upon  their  face,  and 
that  fifty-eight  was  a  majority  of  one  hundred 
and  eight  ?  Of  course  we  did.  And  did  we 
not  come  into  this  building  at  twelve  or  one 
o'clock  at  night,  for  the  purpose  of  preserving, 
protecting  and  defending  those  rights  which 
were  vested  in  us  by  virtue  of  our  having  a 
majority  ?  Of  course  we  did.  And,  sir, 
when  the  minority  came  into  this  Hall  in  a 
body  and  left  us  so  unceremoneously,  and  un- 
parliamentary and  set  up  a  bastard  Conven- 
tion upon  their  own  hook,  did  we  not  say  that 
we  had  a  majority  of  the  legally  elected  mem- 
bers of  the  Convention — that  we  had  fifty- 
eight  members  who  had  credentials  fair  upon 
their  face,  that  we  had  another  member  from 
the  eleventh  council  district  (Mr.  Sheldon) 
who  had  received  a  majority  of  the  votes  of 
his  particular  district,  but  for  the  reason  that 
some  of  the  local  officers  acted  injudiciously 
and  erroneously,  that  those  votes  were  not 
canvassed ;  and  did  we  not  say  that  he  was 
entitled  to  his  seat  because  he  had  received  a 
majority  of  the  votes  of  his  distiict?  Cer- 
tainly, we  did.  And,  sir,  when  our  Demo- 
cratic friends  left  us  and  went  into  the  other 
Hall  to  organize  a  bastard  Convention,  did 
not  we  set  up  a  howl  which  has  gone  all  over 
the  land?  That  howl  was  that^we  were  a 
majority  and  they  a  minority ;  that  we  were 
the  representatives  of  the  people  of  the  Ter- 
ritory, that  they  were  the  border  ruffians,  that 
they  were  men  seeking  to  trample  upon  the 
rights  of  the  people  of  this  Territory,  while  we 
were  seeking  for  nothing  but  what  was  right, 
and  fair,  and  honorable  among  men.  Did  not 
we  say  that  ?     Of  course  we  did. 

"Well,  sir,  after  having  taken  that  position, 
after  having  said  that  we  would  go  on  and 
frame  a  Constitution  for  the  reason  that  we 
were  a  majority  and  had  the  legal  right  so  to 
do,  and  that  we  would  submit  that  Constitu- 
tion to  the  people,  and  that  we  would  be  sus- 
tained by  the  people,  what  do  we  propose 
now  to  do  ?  We  were  unanimous  in  the  po- 
sitions we  took  at  that  time.  "We  said  we 
had  been  treated  like  dogs;  we  said  that 
those  who  left  us  had  no  right  to  leave  us, 
and  had  no  right  to  set  Up  and  organize  a 
Convention  of  their  own,  and  that  for  that 
reason  we  would  not  respect  them,  or  recog- 
nise them  at  aU.  Such  was  the  position  we 
took  at  that  time,  and  at  that  time  nothing  at 


aU  was  said  about  all  this  ruin,  and  anarchy, 
and  desolation,  which  is  to  spread  over  the 
Territory.  Not  one  individual  member  of 
those  who  are  now  so  exceedingly  anxious  for 
this  compromise,  even  dreamed  of  this  anar- 
chy and  confusion  which  they  now  talk  about 
so  much  as  about  to  sweep  over  the  Territo- 
ry, destroy  our  real  and  personal  property, 
and  prevent  the  influx  of  capital  from  foreign 
States  and  countries.  Then  we  were  all 
unanimously  in  favor  of  presenting  our  own 
Constitution  to  the  people,  with  the  under-' 
standing  among  ourselves,  to  say  the  least  of 
it,  that  we  should  be  sustained  by  the  patri- 
otism and  intelligence  of  the  peopte. 

But  now  it  has  been  discovered,  by  these 
very  same  men  who  were  so  very  anxious 
that  we  should  come  here  at  the  dead  hour  of 
the  night,  contrary  to  all  former  usage,  con- 
trary to  everything  like  courtesy-^I  say  it 
has  been  discovered  that  we  were  all  wrong, 
and  they  now  propose  to  back  down  from 
their  positions,  and  say  we  were  lying  to  the 
people,  and  that  all  that  hue  and  crj'  was 
moonshine,  and  that  there  was  no  truth  in 
it,  and  that  because  anarchy  !ind  confusion 
are  about  to  sweep  over  the  land  we  must 
unite  upon  one  Constitution. 
.  Sir,  when  we  were  candidates  before  the 
people,  what  was  our  story  ?  VTe  desired  to 
be  elected  as  Republicans  to  this  Convention, 
and  why  ?  For  the  purpose  of  securing  a 
majority  in  this  Convention.  And  why  ?  So 
that  we  could  carve  up  this  Territory  in  such 
a  manner  as  to  secure  two  members  in  Con- 
gress ;  and  not  only  that,  but  to  carve  it  up 
so  that  we  could  secure  a  majority  of  the  first 
Legislature,  and,  by  so  doing,  secure  two 
Senators  in  the  United  States  Senate— that 
we  might  send  to  the  Halls  of  the  National 
Legislature  men  who  would  represent  Repub- 
lican views  and  sentiments.  That  was  the 
story  we  told  oixr  constituents  at  the  time  we 
were  candidates,  and  the  people  elected  fifty, 
nine  of  us.  And  we  fifty-nine  came  here 
with  the  understanding  that  a  majority  should 
rule.  That  is  an  old  and  established  Demo- 
cratic doctrine. 

And  now,  Mr.  Chaibmax,  instead  of  carry- 
ing out  what  our  constituents  supposed  we 
would  carry  out,  and  instead  of  adliering 
strictly  to  our  rights  as  a  majority,  we  pro- 
pose to  throw  all  this  arrangement  into  such 


572 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Fbiday,  August  28. 


a  state  that  the  Republicans  will  not  elect  one 
single  member  of  Congress,  and  by  which 
the  Democrats  will  stand  one  equal  chance 
with  us  in  securing  a  majority  in  the  first  Le- 
gislature, and  thereby  two  Senators  in  the 
United  States  Senate.  These  are  my  opin- 
ions. Having  told  this  story  to  the  people, 
before  whom  I  was  a  candidate,  I  do  not  pro- 
pose now  to  eat  my  own  words.  I  am  not 
disposed  to  back  down  from  that  position.  I 
am  disposed  to  look  back  and  see  what  tracks 
I  have  made,  what  stories  I  have  told,  and 
what  positions  I  have  taken,  and  I  am  dis- 
posed here  to  adhere  to  those  positions. 

I  came  here  as  one  of  the  majority  of  this 
Convention,  .and  being  of  the  majority,  I  sup- 
posed we  had  the  right  to  rule  and  control  it, 
Now  what  is  the  objection  raised  against  sub- 
mitting two  Constitutions  to  the  people  ?  We 
are  told  that  the  Democrats  will  make  ar- 
rangements by  which  they  will  have  a  foreign 
population  in  the  river  counties  which  will 
cram  our  ballot-boxes  full  of  votes,  and  in 
case  the  ballot-boxes  will  not  hold  a  sufficient 
number  of  votes  to*  secure  their  success,  that 
they  will  bring  in  dry-goods  boxes  and  cram 
them  full  of  voies  also.  Now  I  ask  you,  if 
they  can  do  that  in  regard  to  the  Constitution, 
can  they  not  do  it  also  in  the  election  of 
judges,  the  members  of  Congress,  and  mem- 
bers of  the  Legislature?  Certainly  tlieycan,' 
and  all  this  hue  and  cry  now  raised  about  the 
diflBculty  of  submitting  two  Constitutions,  is 
an  after  thought — as  much  an  after  thought 
as  it  was  with  Douglas  when  he  brought  in 
his  second  Nebraska  report.  I  am  one  who 
always  was  suspicious  of  these  after  thoughts, 
and  generally  disposed  to  adhere  to  the  posi- 
tions I  have  taken,  provided  I  am  right  in 
thj  first  instance.  It  does  seem  to  me  that 
those  men  who  are  so  fast  for  this  comprom- 
ise, who  say  we  miuit  compromise,  that  it  is 
the  all-absorbing  question,  that  the  whole 
country  is  looking  upon  us  and  anxiously  ex- 
pecting that  we  shall  make  a  *  compromise, 
should  look  back  a  little  and  see  the  position 
we  occupied  six  weeks  ago,  when  we  said  to 
the  people  that  we  would  present  to  them  a 
Constitution  which  would  be  Republican  in 
its  character. 

Look  at  some  other  points.  We  came  here 
as  Republicans,  and  many  of  us  were  in  favor 
of  negro  suffrage ;  and  when  we  talked  over 


the  question  in  caucus  a  good  manj  of  us 
said  that  we  were  entirely  ready  and  willing 
to  submit  it  as  a  separate  proposition  to  the 
people.  Why?  Btcause  we  were  anxious 
for  speedy  admission  into  the  Union,  because 
we  wanted  our  Constitution  ratified  by  the 
people,  and  did  not  wish  the  fate  of  the  Con- 
stitution to  hang  upon  the  fate  of  the  decision 
of  the  negi'o-suffrage  question — for  a  good 
many  of  the  Republicans,  or  men  who  are 
acting  with  the  Republican  party,  are  re- 
cently from  the  Democratic  or  Whig  ranks, 
and  are  not  so  much  abolitionized  as  a  good 
many  others,  and  therefore  not  so  exceedingly 
fast  upon  the  question  of  negro  suffrage. 
We  compromised  upon  that  question,  and 
unanimously  agreed  to  submit  it  as  a  sepai'ate 
proposition.  Now  what  do  we  propose  ?  We 
propose  to  give  that  question  the  go-by,  en- 
tirely. 

What  do  we  get  in  return  for  it?  We 
get  Indian  suffrage ;  we  get  at  least  six  or 
seven  hundred  half-breeds,  who  have,  by  vir- 
tue of  that  report,  not  only  the  right  to  the 
exercise  of  the  elective  franchise,  but  to  be 
made  oflScers  of  the  State  of  Minnesota ;  and 
not  only  that,  but  they  can  hold  any  oflice 
that  the  people  of  this  proposed  State  see  fit 
to  boost  them  into,  except  Governor  and 
Lieutenant-Governor.  We  propose  to  back 
down,  and  say  that  the  negro  shall  not  vote, 
and  say  that  the  people  shall  not  express 
their  views  upon  it.  That  is  what  we  receive 
in  return  for  our  desire  to  compromise  and 
arrange  this  whole  difficulty. 

Now,  sir,  I  stood  here  as  the  opposer  of  In- 
dian suffrage,  unless  the  right  was  confined 
to  those  who  had  adopted  the  dress,  habits 
and  customs  of  civilized  life,  and  had  passed 
through  an  ordeal  which  should  satisfy  the 
mind  of  any  intelligent  man  that  they  had 
done  so.  As  to  the  necessity  of  that,  we  have 
only  to  look  to  the  Sioux  and  Winnebago  re- 
serves to  see  what  an  amount  of  votes  can  be 
polled  upon  those  two  reserves  without  such 
restrictions — and  all  upon  one  side  too,  under 
and  by  virtue  of  that  one  Constitution  which 
you  propose  to  send  out  to  the  people.  And 
whUe  you  are  conferring  these  extraordinary 
rights,  you  prescribe  the  negro  race,  and 
strike  at  the  root  of  popular  sovereignty, 
which  is  that  the  people  have  a  right  to  de- 
cide all  these  questions  themselves.     This  is 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Friday,  August  28. 


573 


what  you  propose  to  do  by  virtue  of  this  glo- 
rious compromise. 

Now,  so  far  as  I  am  concerned,  I  ^ould 
rather  we  had,  when  those  who  claim  to  be 
Democratic  members  left  this  Hall,  followed 
them  into  the  Hall,  and  whenever  the  question 
came  up  there,  allowed  them  to  control  it 
themselves,  or  else  have  taken  our  hats  and 
gone  home.  And  I  say,  sir,  if  there  had  not 
been  one  single  Republican  in  this  Convention, 
the  Democrats  could  not  have  got  up  a  more 
anti-Republican  Constitution  than  this  which 
is  recommended  by  the  committee.  No  dem- 
ocratic Constitution  could  be  more  anti-repub- 
lican than  this  very  same  Constitution. 

Now  taking  into  consideration  the  positions 
we  have  previously  occupied,  the  things  we 
have  previously  contended  for, — the  right  of 
submitting  this  question  of  negro  suflfrage  to 
the  people ;  the  propriety  of  compelling  for- 
eigners to  remain  a  certain  length  of  time  in 
the  country  until  they  become  somewhat  ac- 
quainted with  the  machinery  of  government ; 
the  restriction  upon  the  right  of  suflfrage  to 
certain  half-breeds  and  whole  blooded  Indians 
having  certain  qualifications, — and  are  no\v 
proposing  to  abandon  all  these  for  the  pur- 
pose of  compromising,  and  for  the  purpose  of 
avoiding  this  great  calamity,  this  war  and 
destruction  which  gentlemen  say  are  now  hov- 
ering over  this  land,  but  which,  six  months 
ago,  no  member  of  this  Convention  dreamed 
of  existing ;  I  say,  in  view  of  all  these  things 
I  have  simply  to  say  in  the  language  of  the 
pious  old  poet : 

"Black  spirits  and  white,  blue  spirits  and  gray. 
Mingle,  mingle,  mingle,  ye  who  want  to,  may." 

Mr.  McCLURE.  So  far  as  I  am  concerned, 
I  agree  cordially  and  heartily  with  much  that 
my  friend  who  has  just  resumed  his  seat  (Mr. 
CoGGS^vELL,)  has  stated,  and  for  the  purpose 
of  justifying  myself  before  my  constituents 
and  the  Territory,  I  beg  leave  to  submit  a  few 
remarks. 

So  far  as  our  organization  is  concerned, 
every  member  knows  the  position  I  assumed; 
and  so  far  as  the  conference  question  was  con- 
cerned, every  member  here  also  knows  the 
position  I  assumed  on  that.  I  was,  with  my 
friend,  (Mr.  Coggswell)  in  favor  of  giving  or 
submitting  a  Constitution  made  by  the  Re- 
publican members  who  had  been  elected  to 
this  Constitutional  Convention.      In  my  ab- 


sence at  home  a  resolution  was  passed,  author- 
izing the  creation  of  a  joint  commtttee.  to 
meet  a  like  ccmmittee  to  be  appointed  by  the 
body  sitting  in  the  other  wing  of  the  Capitol, 
ily  name  was  placed  upon  that  committee. 
When  I  returned,  I  took  occasion  to  disprove 
of  what  had  been  done ;  but  I  am  just  as 
much  in  fevor  of  the  majority  ruling  as  my 
friend  before  me  (Mr.  Coggswell,)  is,  and 
when  a  majority  of  this  Convention  had  de- 
cided that  such  a  course  as  that  should  be 
pursued,  as  a  matter  of  course,  I  submitted 
to  it.  I  hesitated  sometime  whether  I  should 
decline  serving  on  that  committee,  or  whether 
I  should  go  there  in  conformity  to  the  wishes 
of  those  who  appointed  me.  I  consulted  with 
friends,  and  stated  substantially  my  objec- 
tions to  them,  and  I  was  induced  by  their 
advice  and  suggestions  to  consent  to  serve  as 
a  member  of  that  committee.  I  went  there 
for  the  purpose  of  carrying  out  the  views  of 
the  Convention  as  far  as  it  was  possible  for 
me  to  do,  and  no  vote  have  I  given  in  that 
committee  contrary  to  a  majority  vote  given 
in  this  body  on  the  same  subjects,  only  with 
one  exception,  which  I  will  point  out  in  aTew 
minutes,  and  that  was  not  given  until  after 
consultation  with  those  gentlemen  who  had 
voted  for  a  certain  proposition,  and  until  I 
was  told  that  it  would  meet  their  views. 

The  very  first  day  after  we  went  into  the 
committee,  I  was  satisfied  from  the  acts  and 
fi-om  the  declarations  of  the  chairman  of  the 
part  of  the  committee  appointed  by  the  other 
body,  (Mr.  Gokmax,)  that  it  was  his  determi- 
nation never  to  agree  upon  one  Constitution, 
I  was  satisfied  from  the  positions  which  he 
assumed  and  the  questions  he  brought  up 
there,  that  he  was  determined  to  make  a  split 
right  upon  the  question,  and  that  alone,  of 
negro  suffrage.  "We  passed  on  from  one  sub- 
ject to  another  until  we  arrived  at  a  certain 
point  where  this  question  had  to  be  met  di- 
rectly in  the  face.  Not  being  able  to  get  over 
that  point,  I  submitted  to  the  conference  com- 
mittee that  they  should  not  make  provisions 
for  submitting  two  Constitutions  imtil  we  had 
made  one  more  eflfort  to  agree  upon  one,  (af- 
ter first  having  agreed  upon  those  points  in 
our  Constitution  which,  if  diflTerent,  would 
lead  to  a  conflict  in  the  returns,  and  to  a  con- 
flict between  the  difierent  sets  of  oflBcers 
elected  under  them.)    The  whole  idea  of  sub- 


574 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Friday,  August  28. 


mitting  one  Constitution  had  then  been  given 
up.  A  proposition  had  been  submitted  in  the 
other  body,  and  voted  for  by  every  member 
of  their  committee,  that  the  right  of  suffrage 
should  not  be  extended  by  the  Constitution  to 
any  one  having  African  blood ;  that  the  Con- 
stitution should  not  be  so  amended  as  by  any 
possibility  to  allow  them  the  right  of  suffrage; 
and  that  no  law  should  ever  be  passed  sub- 
mitting to  the  people  the  question  whether 
the  right  of  suffrage  should  be  extended  to 
them.  That  proposition  was  submitted  to  us, 
every  Democratic  member  of  the  committee 
voting  for  it,  and  our  members  voting  against 
it.  The  proposition  which  I  submitted  when 
we  arrived  at  that  part  of  the  Schedule  in 
which  we  were  going  on  to  make  provision  for 
the  submission  of  two  Constitutions,  I  sub- 
mitted on  my  own  responsibility,  atter  consul- 
tation with  some  gentlemen  of  this  Conven- 
tion.    The  proposition  was  substantially  this: 

"  Provided,  nevertheless,  that  nothing  in  this 
Constitution  shall  be  so  construed  as  to  prevent  the 
Legislature  at  any  time  from  passing  a  law  extend- 
ing the  right  of  suffrage — " 

Not  to  negroes,  not  to  foreigners,  not  to  wo- 
men, but  a  general  extension  of  the  right  of 
suffrage  to  all  to  whom  the  Legislature  should 
see  proper  to  extend  it ; — 
"But  that  no  such  law  should  take  effect  until  it 
was  submitted  to  a  vote  of  the  people  and  be  ap- 
proved by  a  majorityof  the  votes  cast  upon  that 
subject." 

I  intended  that  our  Democratic  friends,  if 
they  split,  should  split  upon  that  point  and 
decide  that  the  people  should  not  decide  any- 
thing. I  contended  that  that  proposition  was 
democratic,  an  old  Jeffersonian  principle,  and 
that  I  should  declare  that  no  man  could  be  a 
Democrat  who  should  deny  such  a  right. 

When  that  proposition  was  submitted,  my 
friend  Brown,  a  member  of  the  committee 
from  the  other  wing,  said  that  that  did  seem 
actually  democratic,  that  there  could  be  no 
objection  to  it.  It  was  then  proposed  by,  him 
that  we  should  so  amend  the  article  upon 
amendments  to  the  Constitution  so  as  to  just 
get  what  we  wanted ;  and  in  doing  that,  Mr. 
Pbesident,  we  got  a  great  deal  more  than  we 
would  have  asked  for,  and  a  great  deal  more 
than  the  Democrats  probably  now  think  that 
we  did  get. 

Let  us  see :  our  Democratic  friends  had  a 


proposition  in  their  Constitution  substantially 
like  this : 

"Whenever  a  majority  of  both  Houses  of  the 
Legislature  shall  deem  it  necessary  to  alter  or 
amend  this  Constitution,  they  may  propose  such 
alteration  or  amendment,  which  proposed  amend- 
ment shall  be  submitted  to  the  next  legislative  as- 
sembly, be  published  with  the  laws  which  shall 
have  been  passed  at  the  same  session,  and  if  a  ma- 
jority of  each  House,  at  the  next  session  of  the 
legislative  assembly  shall  approve  of  the  amend- 
ment proposed,  on  a  vote  by  yeas  and  nays,  said 
amendment  shall  be  submitted  to  the  people." 

This  was  the  proposition  which  our  Democrat- 
ic friends  had  in  their  article  upon  the  amend- 
ments to  the  Constitution.  According  to  that 
one  Legislature  would  have  to  propose  an 
amendment,  publish  it  with  their  laws,  sub- 
mit it  to  the  next  Legislature,  to  be  passed 
by  a  majority  of  that  Legislature,  and  then 
be  submitted  to  a  vote  of  the  people.  Two 
successive  Legislatures  would  have  to  have 
acted  upon  it,  and  then  the  people  would  have 
had  to  have  acted  upon  it  before  it  could  have 
been  adopted.  Our  proposed  amendment  was 
this: — "that  a  majority  of  both  Houses  may 
"  propose  amendments,  shall  publish  them  with 
"their  laws,  and  that  they  shall  be  submitted 
"  to  the  people  for  their  approval  or  rejection  at 
"  the  first  election  thereafter." 

Now,  what  did  our  friends  in  favor  of  negro 
suffrage  sacrifice  by  that?  They  sacrificed 
the  privilege  of  submitting  to  the  people,  as  a 
separate  proposal,  at  the  time  of  the  adoption 
or  rejection  of  this  Constitution,  the  question 
whether  the  right  of  suffrage  shall  be  extend- 
ed to  those  in  whose  veins  runs  African  blood. 
They  know,  I  know,  and  everybody  knows, 
that  that  would  have  been  voted  down  by  an 
overwhelming  majority,  and  that  no  vote 
could  have  been  taken  upon  it  again.  When 
they  had  once  voted,  their  power  would  have 
been  exhausted.  Then  they  have  simply 
sacrified  the  privilege  of  giving  a  minority 
vote  in  favor  of  that  proposition ;  for  not  one 
of  them  will  say  that  it  could  pass.  Every 
Democrat  in  the  whole  country  would  vote 
against  it,  and  a  large  majority  of  the  Repub- 
licans would  vote  against  it ;  hence  it  could 
not  pass. 

Now  let  us  see  what  our  friends  upon  that 
side  gain  by  it.  Why  if  they  are  prudent — 
and  I  suppose  they  are  and  will  be — they  will 
never  jM-oposo  such  an  amendment  until  the 
public  mind  is  educated  up  to  that  idea,  that 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Friday,  August  28. 


575 


they  will  be  pretty  sure  that  they  vnM  get  a 
majority.  I  do  not  believe  there  is  one  of 
them  who  is  so  impolitic  as  to  wish  to  take  a 
vote  upon  a  thing  continually,  when  it  must 
come  out  in  the  minority  every  time.  I  hope 
no  man  belonging  to  either  the  Republican  or 
Democratic  party  could  be  so  impolitic  as  that. 
They  have  gained  this  point,  then,  that  when- 
ever they  think  the  question  can  be  passed 
by  the  people,  and  they  have  a  majority  of 
the  Iicgislature  which  will  propose  such  an 
amendment,  it  can  be  voted  upon,  and  if  it 
obtains  a  majority  of  votes,  it  becomes  a  part 
and  parcel  of  the  Constitution.  Now  that  can 
be  done  at  any  time  hereafter,  while  under 
our  own  proposition  the  question  could  only 
be  voted  on  now,  when  we  all  acknowledge 
that  it  would  be  voted  down,  and  then  our 
power  would  all  be  exhausted. 

It  may  be  that  the  people  may  want  to  ex- 
tend the  right  of  suffrage  to  women,  to  In- 
dians, or  to  negroes ;  and  under  this  provi- 
sion they  can  extend  it  to  any  class  they 
think  proper.  Now,  in  my  judgment,  that  is 
a  great  gain  for  them.  They  could  take  a 
vote  on  the  proposition  we  proposed  to  sub- 
mit, but  they  could  not  succeed,  and  then 
their  ammunition  would  be  exhausted.  By 
this  they  can  await  the  proper  time  until  their 
eye  is  unerringly  upon  the  mark,  and  then 
drawing  the  trigger,  there  will  be  some  chance 
of  their  prey. 

But  again :  granting  for  the  sake  of  the  ar- 
gument that  we  have  gained  nothing  upon 
this  point,  it  is  true  that  we  have  lost  nothing. 
^Ye  can  propose  by  a  majority  vote  of  the 
Legislature,  at  any  time  to  submit  any  amend- 
ment to  a  vote  of  the  people.  A  banking  law 
■could  be  recommended  by  the  Legislature, 
and  become  a  part  of  the  Constitution  after 
it  shall  be  ratified  by  the  people.  The  bank- 
ing privilege  is  an  important  one,  and  in  my 
judgment  no  law  granting  banking  privileges 
ought  to  go  into  operation  without  the  sanc- 
tion of  the  people,  expressed  by  a  direct  vote 
upon  that  one  question. 

I  don't  know  but  that  I  am  more  demo- 
cratic than  the  Democrats  themselves.  I  have 
every  confidence  in  the  people,  and  in  the  rep- 
resentatives of  the  people ;  and  if  the  people 
do  wrong,  or  their  representatives  do  wrong, 
I  believe  they  have  the  power  and  the  wis- 
dom to  correct  the  evil.     Wrong  may  be  per- 


petrated, unwise  and  unjust  legislation  may 
be  passed ;  but  the  people  will  chastise  their 
representatives  just  as  certainly  as  they  exist, 
and  will  correct  those  evils  as  soon  as  they 
can.  I  am  willing  to  leave  this  matter  entire- 
ly with  the  people.  So  far  as  my  judgment 
is  concerned,  our  friends,  so  tenacious  upon 
the  subject  of  negro  suffrage,  have  gained 
materially  by  the  provision  as  it  now  stands. 
Certain  defeat  would  have  been  the  inevitable 
result  of  a  vote  this  fall.  Now  they  will  have 
some  chance  hereafter,  if  they  are  prudent, 
when  the  pubhc  mind  becomes  educated  upon 
the  subject.  It  may  be  a  long  time  before 
the  prejudice  which  now  exists  can  be  eradi- 
cated; but  when  it  is,  they  -wiU  have  a 
chance. 

As  to  my  friend  before  me,  (Mr,  Coggs- 
WELL,)  I  will  say  there  is  no  man  for  whose 
opinions  I  have  a  higher  respect.  He  has  for 
a  long  time  been  my  equal,  and,  I  would  ad- 
mit, my  superior  in  knowledge.  We  have 
been  partners  in  law  together,  and  always, 
when  we  differed  I  have  bowed  with  humble 
submission,  [laughter]  because  it  is  true  he 
is  a  perfect  book  worm.  I  have  known  him, 
however,  somestimes  mistaken  ;  sometimes  I 
have  known  him  not  to  carry  his  point,  and 
even  the  court  dared  to  differ  with  him ;  and 
sometimes  I  have  known  twelve  honest  jurors 
to  differ  with  him  ;  but  that  did  not  lessen  him 
in  my  estimation  at  all — not  in  the  least.  So 
I  think  he  may  sometimes  err  in  his  judg- 
ment. 

I  shall  vote,  myself,  for  this  proposition, 
because  it  meets  my  views  precisely ;  but  I 
do  not  ask  a  majority  of  this  Convention  to 
do  so.  Let  them  act  like  men — like  Republi- 
cans, and  in  the  spirit  of  true  Jeffersonian 
Republicans ;  and  if  there  is  anything  which 
they  do  not  like  and  cannot  conscientiously 
vote  for,  as  men  they  ought  to  vote  against  it, 
and  they  would  do  wrong  if  they  did  not.  It 
would  be  remarkable  if  a  Constitution  had 
been  framed  by  us — a  band  of  Republican 
brothers — without  the  Democrats  to  fight 
with,  upon  which,  when  the  final  vote  was 
taken,  we  should  have  all  been  found  united. 
It  would  have  been  a  remarkable  circum- 
stance. I  am  not  much  in  favor  of  unani- 
mous votes  upon  any  important  thing,  because 
it  looks  a  little  too  much  as  though  that  con- 
sideration had  not  been  given  it  which  there 


576 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Friday,  August  28. 


ought  to  have  been.  But  I  shall  bow  to  the 
will  of  the  majority.  If  every  man  in  the 
Convention  should  vote  against  it,  I  shall  be- 
lieve that  they  have  acted  rightly  and  consci- 
entiously. 

But  my  friend  (Mr.  Coggswell)  seems  a 
little  concerned  lest  some  half-breed  might, 
perchance,  be  Governor  of  the  State  of  Min- 
nesota. Well,  I  do  not  suppose  my  friend, 
if  a  majority  of  the  people  of  Minnesota 
should  select  Fred  Douglas,  or  any  other  per- 
son having  African  blood  in  his  veins  to  be 
Governor,  would  dare  to  say  they  had  not  the 
right  to  do  so.  No  man  would  say  that,  who 
had  the  first  particle  of  Republicanism  in  his 
veins,  and  I  know  my  friend  is  full  of  it. 
When  the  public  mind  becomes  educated  and 
familiarized  with  the  savages  of  the  forest  as 
to  take  that  hard  named  fellow — [A  voice, 
"  Ink-pa-du-tah"]  well,  I  will  take  his  pronun- 
ciation first.  When  the  public  mind  shall 
become  so  far  educated  as  to  pick  him  up  and 
make  him  Governor  of  Minnesota,  though  I 
should  vote  against  him,  undoubtedly,  I  would 
not  further  object.  Nor  would  I  leave  the 
Territory,  because  I  should  expect  to  get  into 
a  fight  pretty  soon,  and  upon  certain  occasions 
I  would  as  soon  fight  as  stand  still. 

Well,  now,  upon  whom  do  we  bestow  the 
right  of  voting  ?  First,  to  white  citizens  of  the 
United  States.  Second,  to  white  persons  of 
foreign  birth  who  shall  have  declared  their 
intentions  to  become  citizens  conformably  to 
the  laws  of  the  United  States  upon  the  sub- 
ject of  naturalization.  There  is  nothing  wrong 
thus  far.  Third,  to  persons  of  mixed  white 
and  Indian  blood  who  have  adopted  the  hab- 
its and  customs  of  civilization.  The  only 
question  which  can  arise  upon  that  point  is  in 
reference  to  the  length  of  time  that  they 
should  have  adopted  the  customs  and  habits 
of  civilized  society.  That  is  all.  It  is  a  mere 
matter  of  time ;  because  if  they  have  the  very 
best  blood  of  those  who  may  have  come  amongst 
them  tracing  through  their  veins,  if  they  are 
not  men  when  they  come  to  maturity,  I  ap- 
prehend that  the  good  sense  of  community 
will  never  take  them  up  and  place  them  in  any 
oflBce ;  or  if  they  do,  they  will  have  to  bear 
the  consequences. 

The  next  class  is,  '•  persons  of  Indian  blood 
"  residing  in  tliis  State,  who  have  adopted  the 
"  language,  customs  and  habits  of  civilization. 


' '  after  an  examination  before  any  District  Court 
"  of  the  State,  in  such  manner  as  may  be  pro- 
"  vided  by  law,  and  shall  have  been  pronounced 
"by  said  Court  capable  of  enjoying  the  rights 
"of  citizenship  within  the  State." 

Now,  in  order  to  object  to  that,  in  my  judg- 
ment, he  must  come  to  the  conclusion  that 
the  Judge  of  a  District  Court  must  be  a  cor- 
rupt, base  and  perjured  villain.  Why?  Be- 
cause if  he  were  not  he  would  never  certify 
to  anything  which  he  knew  to  be  untrue  for 
the  purpose  of  making  a  vote.  I  care  not 
whether  he  be  Republican  or  Democrat,  he 
would  have  to  degrade  himself  below  the  sav- 
ages of  the  forest  before  he  would  do  it.  I 
have  not,  when  upon  the  stump,  a  great  deal 
of  confidence  in  what  my  democratic  friends 
say;  they  always  go  in  for  victory,  and  I  ex- 
pect the  Republicans  will  do  the  same ;  and 
if  a  Republican  should  be  a  Judge,  under  the 
solemnities  of  an  oath,  I  should  come  to  the 
conclusion  that  he  ^  would  do  right,  and  I 
would  not  say  that  a  Democrat,  under  the 
solemnities  of  an  oflBcial  oath  would  not  do 
right,  until  I  was  satisfied  to  the  contrary  by 
an  act  which  he  had'perpetratcd,  even  though 
when  upon  the  stump  telling  a  story  about 
the  Republicans,  I  would  not  believe  a  word; 
[laughter]  for  they  would  present  the  facts  and 
the  arguments  in  the  best  manner  possible; 
and  so  would  my  friend  before  me,  (Mr. 
CoGGSWELL,)  for  I  tell  you  he  can  present 
facts  upon  the  stump,  that  if  men  did  not 
know  they  came  from  such  a  source  they 
would  be  staggered  to  believe  them.  [Great 
laughter.] 

As  to  the  last  part  of  that  latter  provision, 
I  would,  if  I  had  my  own  way,  have  made  it 
a  little  different  in  reference  to  the  half-breeds, 
though  I  would  not  in  reference  to  the  full- 
blooded  Indians. 

Now,  it  was  impossible  for  us  to  agree 
upon  one  Constitution  and  put  the  African 
upon  the  same  footing  with  the  Indians. 
That  was  a  matter  of  impossibility.  Then 
what  must  wo  do  ?  So  far  as  lowering  our 
dignity  is  concerned,  I  profess  to  have  as 
much  dignity  as  the  circumstances  will  admit 
of.  Since  I  came  to  St.  Paul,  [laughter,]  I 
have  been  necessitated  to  accommodate  my- 
self to  surroundhig  circumstances.  Well, 
each  body  firmly  and  positively  declared  that 
it  was  the  Constitutional  Convention,  and,  as 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Friday,  August  28. 


577 


a  necessary  consequence,  that  the  other  was 
bogus.  Novr,  there  is  one  of  us  mistaken  in 
that  declaration.  But  a  correspondence  takes 
place  between  those  two  dignified  bodies,  and 
in  some  way  or  another,  by  the  appointment 
of  a  joint  committee,  they  met  upon  a  com 
mon  level.  I  do  not  care  which  occupied  the 
highest  post  before,  the  moment  the  commit- 
tee was  appointed  they  met  upon  common 
ground,  and  although  one  assembled  in  one 
end  of  the  Capitol  and  the  other  in  the  other, 
virtually  they  were  one,  and  the  only  diflFer- 
ence  was  whether  Sibley  or  Balcombe  should 
be  the  head.  I  presume  that  the  sun  would 
rise  and  set,  and  that  the  heavens  would  not 
fall,  though  the  heads  of  Sibley  and  Bal- 
combe were  to  be  severed  from  the  trunks. 
I  do  not  believe  the  whole  arrangement  of 
creation  would  be  disarranged  if  they  were 
both  in  paradise.  (Great  laughter.)  Now 
the  question  was  this :  Shall  all  our  hopes  of 
seeing  Minnesota  come  into  the  Union  as  a 
State  be  blasted,  after  having  appointed  this 
committee  of  Conference,  by  the  submission 
of  two  Constitutions,  by  the  wai-fere  that  would 
run  over  our  Representative  Districts,  and  the 
confusion  that  would  reign  from  beginning 
to  end ;  or  shall  men  act  like  wise  men  and  re- 
concile the  matter  and  [submit  but  one  Con- 
stitution, and  then  go  upon  the  stump  and 
fight  our  battles  in  that  way  ?  And  I  tell  my 
Democratic  friends,  that  just  as  certain  as 
fate,  if  my  exertions  will  beat  them  in  the 
coming  campaign  I  Avill  do  it.  There  is  no 
mistake  about  that.  If  my  exertions  would 
secure  the  election  of  every  State,  county  and 
town  officer  to  the  Republicans,  I  would  do 
it;  and  they  are  more  docile  than  I  think 
they  are  if  they  would  not  do  the  same — and 
it  is  said  that  they  sometimes  condescend  to 
pretty  mean  things.  But  that  has  nothing  to 
do  with  the  question  before  us.  Shall  we 
adopt  this  Constitution  or  shall  we  not  ?  So 
far  as  I  am  concerned,  I  shall  vote  for  it, 
though  I  do  not  ask  any  single  member  of 
this  Convention  to  do  so.  I  feel  bound  by 
everything  which  the  Convention  has  done, 
but  if  adopted,  it  must  be  adopted  as  a  whole, 
because  a  single  amendment  destroys  the 
whole  arrangement  between  us.  If  they 
make  an  amendment,  they  violate  every  sin- 
gle principle  upon  which  they  appointed  that 
committee ;  if  we  do,  we  do  also.  If  they 
73 


make  an  amendment,  let  them  take  the  conse- 
quences of  submitting  two  Constitutions  ;  if 
we  do  it,  we  must  take  the  consequen- 
ces. 

Now,  there  has  been  quite  a  quarrel  as  to 
how  this  matter  of  signing  the  Constitution 
should  be  got  along  with,  so  as  to  get  the 
Constitution  into  the  Governor's  office.  Mr. 
Sibley  thinks  he  would  be  lowering  his  dig- 
nity to  sign  one  Constitution  with  Mr.  Bal- 
combe. Now  I  think  that  is  very  contempti- 
ble, and  mere  child's  play;  and  to  satisfy 
that  gentleman,  we  made  out  two  sets  of  pa- 
pers, exactly  alike,  word  for  word,  and  they 
sign  each  separately  as  the  Constitution  of 
the  State  of  Minnesota.  It  is  a  joint  product 
of  the  joint  committee  of  both  ends  of  the 
Capitol,  and  they  are  filed  separately  in  the 
Secretary's  office.  Now  in  my  humble  judg- 
ment, between  those  two  men  it  is  the  most 
childish  thing  I  ever  heard  of;  but  as  it  does 
not  hurt  any  body,  let  the  children  do  as  they 
please.  I  am  willing  they  should  do  so  when 
it  does  not  affect  the  accomplishment  of  the 
object  we  have  in  view. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  move  that  the  final 
question  on  ordering  the  report  to  a  third 
reading  be  taken  at  half  past  three  o'clock 
this  afternoon. 

Mr.  McCLURE.  I  hope,  if  there  is  any 
gentleman  who  has  anything  to  say  upon  this 
•eport  he  will  say  it  now. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  A  number  of  members 
have  gone  to  dinner,  not  supposing  that  the 
question  would  be  taken  till  this  afternoon. 

Mr.  EJEMP.  I  move  that  the  Convention 
take  a  recess  until  half  past  two  o'clock. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  While  it  is  desirable 
that  every  member  should  be  present  to  vote 
upon  this  subject,  it  is  also  desirable  that  the 
vote  should  be  taken  at  once.  Speeches  have 
been  made  upon  each  side,  and  the  remarks 
of  the  gentleman  from  Goodhue  County  ex- 
pressed the  united  voice  of  the  committee. 
They  were  characterised  by  practical  good 
sense,  and  I  en  lorse  every  word  uttered  by 
him.  The  conclusions  he  came  to  are  correct 
in  the  opinion  of  the  committee,  and  I  think 
they  cannot  be  questioned  by  the  Convention. 
The  remarks  of  the  gentleman  from  Steele 
County  (Mr.  Coggswell)  were  as  good  as 
can  be  made  upon  that  side.  If  there  are 
any  further  remarks  to  be  made,  I  hope  we 


578 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Feiday,  August;  28. 


shall  have  them  immediately,  so  that  we  may 
dispose  of  this  matter  as  soon  as  possible. 

Mr.  BALCOMBE.  Lest  some  wrong  im- 
pression may  go  abroad,  from  the  remarks  of 
the  gentleman  from  Goodhue  (Mr.  McCluke) 
as  to  the  matter  of  signing  one  Constitution, 
I  wish  to  state  that  I  have  never  refused  to 
sign  one  Constitution  in  company  with  my 
friend,  Mr.  Sibley,  and  do  not  now.  I  stand 
ready  at  any  and  all  times  to  sign  one  instru- 
ment with  him,  and  I  prefer  to  do  so,  to  filing 
two  separate  pieces  of  paper,  each  containing 
one  and  the  same  Constitution. 

Mr.  McCLURE.  My  remarks  were  merely 
inferential. 

The  motion  to  take  a  recess  was  then 
agreed  to. 

AFTERNOON  SESSION. 

The  Convention  was  called  to  order  at  half 
past  two  o'clock. 

The  PRESIDENT.  The  question  is  upon 
ordering  the  report  of  the  committee  of  Con- 
ference to  a  third  reading. 
.  Mr.  SECOMBE.  The  subject  matters  con- 
tained in  the  report  of  the  committee,  have 
been  before  the  Convention  during  its  session 
and  have  been  discussed.  There  are  in  the 
report,  probably,  no  matters  other  than  what 
have  been  either  adopted  or  rejected  by  this 
Convention,  and  as  was  remarked  this  fore- 
noon by  the  gentleman  from  Goodhue  County ,# 
it  has  been  my  lot  to  say  more  or  less  upon 
the  propositions  which  have  been  before  the 
Convention.  The  remarks  I  have  made  re- 
main a  matter  of  record,  and  I  propose  simply 
to  say,  at  the  present  time,  that  the  various 
matters  I  have  approved  of  at  times  when  I 
have  spoken  heretofore,  I  approve  of  now, 
and  those  of  which  I  expressed  my  disappro- 
bation, are  entitled  to  the  same  disapproba- 
tion now. 

At  the  same  time,  Mr.  President,  I  pro- 
pose to  vote  for  the  report  which  has  been 
made  by  the  committee.  1  do  so  because,  al- 
though it  does  not  meet  my  approbation  in  all 
respects,  I  believe  it  is  for  the  best.  I  be- 
lieve that  no  gentleman  of  this  Convention, 
when  he  comes  to  consider  upon  the  practi- 
cal importance  of  this  vote,  will  differ  from  the 
opinion  I  have  expressed,  and  which  has  been 
expressed  by  the  gentleman  from  Goodhue 
County.     But  I  desire  to  say  a  word  espe- 


cially in  reference  to  one  subject  which  has 
been  discussed  pretty  thoroughly  heretofore — 
the  right  of  suffrage.  I  cannot  vote  for  this 
report  without  again  entering  my  protest 
against  the  doctrine  of  the  report  enunciated 
upon  that  subject.  But,  Mr.  President,  the 
general  provision  for  proposing  and  adopting 
amendments  to  the  Constitution,  is  of  such 
a  nature  that  the  will  of  the  majority  of  the 
people  of  the  State  of  Minnesota,  cannot  be 
prevented  an  expression.  If  a  majority  of 
the  people  of  the  State,  at  the  meeting  of  the 
first  Legislature  see  in  the  Constitution,  which 
we  propose  to  send  out  to  them,  errors  and 
omissions,  or  matters  inserted  which  should 
not  be  there  inserted,  they  have  a  plain  and 
simple  method  by  which  they  can  relieve 
themselves  from  the  burden  upon  them.  For 
that  reason  I  shall  vote  for  the  Constitution 
as  it  now  stands,  hoping  that  the  time  will 
come  when,  in  respect  to  the  elective  fran- 
chise, the  Legislature  and  the  people  of  the 
State  of  Minnesota  will  take  the  true  ground 
of  liberty  upon  that  subject. 

Mr.  WILSON.  I  wish  to  say  but  one 
word.  I  shall  vote  for  this  report  though  I 
do  dislike  parts  of  it  very  much.  I  dislike  a 
part  of  the  judicial  system,  and  I  dislike  very 
much  indeed  the  arrangement  for  electing 
members  of  Congress  The  location  of  the 
University — I  need  not  say  I  dislike  that.  I 
have  not  changed  my  mind.  The  committee 
have  reported  it,  and  doubtless  they  have 
done  what  they  thought  best  and  right.  I 
shall  vote  for  the  report,  though  I  would  it 
were  different. 

Mr.  NORTH.  I  do  not  know  as  it  is  ne- 
cessary to  say  anything  upon  this  occasion. 
I  do  not  wish  to  take  up  the  time  of  the  Con- 
vention, but  I  will  say  a  word. 

There  are  points  in  this  Constitution,  as 
reported,  that  I  very  much  wish  were  other- 
wise. The  position  I  have  taken  upon  some 
iwints  contained  in  that  report,  is  well  known  ; 
and  I  might  refer  to  quite  a  number  of  point.N 
which  I  think  could  have  been  very  much  im- 
proved. Upon  the  suflrage  point,  particu- 
larly, T  could  M'ish  the  report  were  diHercnt. 
But  since  this  Convention  decided  to  insert 
the  word  "  white" — and  there  is  no  hope  now 
of  getting  it  out— it  becomes  with  me  a  ques- 
tion whether  the  present  provision  is  a  better 
one  than  the  contemplated  provision  to  sub- 


MINNESOTA  CON'^TINTION  DEBATES— PRiDAf,  August  28. 


579 


mit  that  question  now  to  the  people.  It  may 
seem  to  some  like  yielding  a  principle  not  to 
submit  that  question  to  the  people  when  the 
Constitution  is  submitted,  but  to  my  mind 
we  gain  as  much  ia  the  trade  as  we  yield. 
For  that  reason,  I  shall  not  feel  it  my  duty  to 
oppose  the  Constitution  as  it  has  been  report- 
ed. In  those  points  in  which  the  people  wish 
to  change  it,  it  can  be  changed  at  any  time 
by  amendment  proposed  in  the  Legislature, 
and  submitted  to  the  people  immediately, 
^vithout  waiting  a  tedious  process  through 
vears  to  accomplish  it  It  affords  an  oppor- 
■  '.nity  for  improving  that  instrument,  which 
-her  methods  of  amendment  might  not  af- 
urd.  I  have  it  also  from  good  authority, 
>rom  persons  most  deeply  interested  in  the 
-Tjuffrage  question,  that  the  most  intelligent  of 
;ie  colored  class  feel  that  this  provision  is 
etter  than  the  other  would  have  been, 
ihat,  to  my  mind,  is  something  of  a  reason 
;0r  being  satisfied  with  the  provisions  of  this 
eport  upon  that  subject.  I  shall,  therefore, 
vote  for  this  report,  and  hope  it  will  be 
adopted. 

Mr.  MESSER.  I  merely  wish  to  say  that 
I  deem  it  my  duty  to  vote  for  this  report  at 
this  time,  but,  while  I  do  so,  I  wish  again  to 
enter  my  protest  against  the  provision  in  re- 
gard to  negro  suffrage — a  question  upon 
which  I  have  taken  a  decided  stand.  But 
when  this  Convention  agreed  to  appoirit  this 
committee  it  was  seen  by  me,  and  by  the 
Convention,  that  that  was  the  only  alterna- 
tive, and  that  it  was  necessary  that  there 
should  be  a  compi*omise.  Consequently,  a 
committee  was  appointed  and  a  compromise 
made  more  to  my  satisfaction  than  I  had 
dared  to  hope  ;  and  while  the  word  "  white  " 
is  retained  in  the  Constitution,  I  intend  to 
follow  up  the  matter  to  the  Legislature,  and 
exert  what  influence  I  possess,  to  have  the 
word  erased  from  the  Constitution.  Taking 
such  a  view  of  this  matter,  I  shall  vote  for 
the  report. 

Mr.  MANTOR.  I,  for  one,  shall  vote  for 
the  report.  It  is  not  exactly  what  I  would 
like  ;  nor  would  the  Constitution,  which  we 
had  nearly  framed,  have  been  exactly  what  I 
desired.  I  did  not  come  here  expecting  to 
get  an  instrument  which  would  suit  me  in 
every  respect.  I  came  here  expecting  to  find 
a  variety  of  opinions  differing  from,  mine,  and 


that  some  of  them  would  find  their  way  into 
the  Constitution ;  and  it  would  be  no  more 
than  I  could  expect,  to  have  to  vote,  finally, 
for  an  instrument  which  contained  provisions 
I  do  not  very  much  admire.  In  reference  to 
the  article  on  Elective  Franchise  contained  in 
this  document,  I  hke  it  much  better  than  a 
great  many  other  provision!  on  that  subject 
which  could  have  been  made.  I  can  now 
see  some  possible  chance  of  extendmg  the 
right  of  suffrage  to  the  colored  man,  when  the 
people  of  the  State  of  Minnesota  shall  be 
better  prepared  to  do  so  than  they  are  at 
present.  I  was  convinced,  on  hearing  the 
argmnents  of  gentlemen  upon  this  subject 
when  it  was  before  the  Convention,  that  we 
couki  not  get  a  majority  of  the  people  of  the 
incoming  State  of  Mimiesota  to  sustain  the 
doctrine  of  the  right  of  suffrage  upon  the 
part  of  colored  persons.  Under  tlie  airange- 
mentx  we  had  proposed  for  ourselves,  after 
we  had  cast  one  vote  we  should  have  ex- 
hausted our  power;  but  now  we  can  have 
the  question  submitted  time  and  again. 

There  are  other  reasons  why  I  shall  sup- 
port this  Constitution.  I  have  been  laboring 
for  weeks  under  a  dilemma  as  to  the  manner 
in  which  we  were  going  to  get  into  the  Union, 
but  I  can  now  see  how  we  are  going  to  get 
into  the  Union  without  turmoil  and  confusion. 
I  might  add  other  reasons,  but  it  is  tmneces, 
sarj'. 

Mr.  BILLINGS.  In  regard  to  this  matter, 
I  scorn  now,  as  ever,  to  make  an  apology  for 
what  I  do  deliberately.  I  make  none.  I  ask 
none.  Let  every  man  dispassionately  deter- 
mine what  is  his  duty,  aside  from  outside 
pressure  or  improper  influences,  and  stand 
acquit  at  the  bar  of  his  own  judgment  and 
conscience.  Were  I  acting  for  myself  on- 
ly, it  would  be  of  very.  Httle  consequence 
how  I  should  vote  upon  this  question  because 
not  many  years  hence,  the  circumstances, 
the  influences,  and  the  policy  which  govern 
us  to-day  as  individuals  will  have  been  cov- 
ered up  in  the  past  and  forgotten ;  but  the 
acts  we  do  will  live  and  tell  upon  i^es  yet  to 
come.  Having  opposed  certain  measures 
when  they  were  properly  before  us,  which 
are  now  retained  in  this  report,  I  cannot  see 
by  what  course  of  reasoning  gentlemen  who 
acted  with  me  then  are  now  found  upon  the 
other  side.     Have  the  facts  changed  ?    Is  the 


580 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Friday,  August  28. 


principle  different  ?  Has  Republicanism  be- 
come a  different  ism  from  what  it  was  the 
thirteenth  of  last  month  ?  I  trust  not.  Have 
we  a  less  desperate  foe  to  contend  with,  or  a 
country  whose  claims  are  lighter  upon  us  ? 
Not  at  all.  The  right  had  advocates  then, 
and  I  trust  it  will  have  a  few  still.  Gentle- 
men say  to  me  it  is  policy,  under  present  cir- 
cumstances, to  act  so  and  so.  I  deny  that 
anything  is  true  policy  which  is  vrrong. 
When  shall  we  learn  from  the  history  of  the 
past,  that  to  do  right,  to  love  mercy,  and 
to  deal  justly,  are  the  surest  safeguards  of 
liberty  ?  Are  we  to  gain  national  eminence, 
and  become  great  and  good  as  a  nation,  by 
means  that  would  sink  individuals,  socially 
and  morally  ?  By  no  means.  Such  is  not 
the  order  of  things. 

I  hold  that  no  defeat  from  outside  pressure 
is  as  disastrous  to  us  as  a  people,  as  a  sur- 
render of  the  high  position  which  Republicans 
have  hitherto  assumed.  I  speak  not  now  par- 
ticularly of  the  suffrage  question.  I  differ 
with  many  gentlemen  upon  that  point,  and 
my  views  are  upon  the  record,  but  there  are 
other  features  in  this  report  which  we,  as  a 
Convention,  have  refused  to  recognize.  I  make 
no  factious  opposition  because  I  bow  humbly 
to  the  will  of  the  majority.  If  this  Constitu- 
tion is  ad«pted  by  the  Convention,  I  will  labor 
for  its  acceptance  by  the  people,  and  for  the 
election  of  the  candidates  nominated  to  serve 
under  it.  But  because  I  apprehend  that  a  ma- 
jority are  going  to  vote  for  it,  must  I  necessa- 
rily consent  to  vote  with  the  majority  ?  Not 
at  all.  I  can  be  consistent  without  going  with 
the  current. 

How  should  I  answer  to  the  future  for 
such  a  course  ?  I  have  not  so  learned  the 
rula  of  life.  It  may  be  that  I  am  behind  the 
age.  It  may  be  that  I  was  never  designed 
for  a  politician.  That  is  a  sphere  in  which  I 
desire  not  to  act.  But  if  I  act  as  a  politician, 
I  must  act  too  as  a  man,  and  whether  I  act 
in  an  individual  or  in  a  representative  capa- 
city, I  must  apply  the  same  rule  to  myself, 
and  leave  it  to  future  generations  to  decide 
whether  I  am  right  or  not.  When  the  vote 
is  taken,  you  will  record  my  silent,  firm,  but 
solemn  ''  No."  I  bequeath  not  to  Minnesota, 
the  homo  of  my  adoption,  a  Constitution  un- 
worthy of  her.  I  would  bequeath  to  her  a 
jargecr  and  purer  gift  than  gentlemen  around 


me — I  would  give  her  liberty,  socially,  politi- 
cally, and  morally.  These  I  tender  to  her  by 
my  vote. 

Mr.  McKUNE.  Mr.  Pbesident  :  I  have  but 
a  very  few  words.  I  have  seen  Republicans 
vote  to  sustain  enormous  corporations,  and 
willing  to  confer  upon  them  powers  and  priv- 
ileges by  which  they  might  crush  out  indivi- 
dual rights ;  and  again,  I  have  seen  them  vote 
against  submitting  to  the  people  of  Minnesota 
the  decision  of  a  proposition  which  immedi- 
ately affected  their  rights,  and  which  did  not, 
in  substance,  amount  to  anything  more  than 
a  memorial  to  Congress.  And  now,  when 
they  bring  forward  this  compromise,  I  see 
that  it  has  been  obtained  at  the  sacrifice  of 
almost  everything  for  which  I  was  elected.  I 
see  that  the  apportionment  of  representation 
is  sacrificed  by  it.  I  see  in  it,  that  the  Uni- 
versity Fund  is  placed  in  a  position  to  be  con- 
trolled by  a  few.  I  see  in  it  the  sacrifice  of 
almost  everything  for  which  I  have  worked 
earnestly  and  honestly  in  many  a  campaign  ; 
questions  involving  the  greatest  principles,  all 
sacrificed  and  given  up  at  once  for  this  com- 
promise. I  know,  sir,  that  my  opposition 
cannot  avail  anything.  I  know  tliat  I  cannot 
argue  here  successfully  against  this  report. 
But  I  want  to  be  consistent.  I  want  to  sus- 
tain here  a  position  that  shall  be  consistent 
with  what  I  have  done  and  said  heretofore  ; 
and  therefore  I  have  determined  to  do  here 
upon  this  question,  the  same  thing  that  I  shall 
do  elsewhere.  I  shall  vote  against  this  report 
here,  and  I  .shall  vote  against  the  Constitution 
it  embodies,  when  it  shall  come  before  the 
people.  If  it  be  in  my  power  to  prevent  its 
adoption  by  the  people,  I  shall  do  it.  I  would 
rather  have  no  Constitution.  I  would  far 
rather  see  a  new  Convention  called  to  frame 
another  Constitution.  Taking  this  view  of 
the  subject,  sir,  it  is  impossible  for  mo  to  sus- 
tain this  report.  I  have  stood  here  amongst 
those  who  have  thought  a  compromise  was 
desirable,  if  it  could  be  obtained  without  tho 
sacrifice  of  rights  and  great  principles ;  but 
when  I  find,  that,  instead  of  such  a  compro- 
mize, we  are  presented  with  a  report,  by  which 
we  are  overreached  and  humbled  not  only  as 
a  party,  but  as  a  Convention  and  as  indivi- 
uals,  I  cannot  and  will  not  give  it  the  sanction 
of  my  vote. 

Mr.  DAVIS.    Mr.  President:    Inasmuch 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Fridat,  ArcusT  28. 


581 


as  both  my  colleagues  have  e^ressed  their 
>riews  upon  this  report,  perhaps  I  ought  to 
give  mine.  I  have  to  say,  sir,  that  I  shall 
vote  against  this  report,  for  the  reason,  that 
I  think  it  requires  of  us  the  sacrifice  of  a  prin- 
ciple. I  have  been  of  the  number  of  those 
here  who  never  have  been  in  favor  of  a  com- 
promise. I  have  never  been  anxious  for^uni- 
ting  with  tlie  other  body  upon  one  Constitu- 
tion, for  the  reason  that,  I  saw  plainly,  by  so 
doing,  we  must  be  losers,  and  they  gainers  in 
everything.  I  saw  that  to  do  so,  we  must 
sacrifice  a  pi-inciple,  and  we  have  done  so. 
That  state  of  anarchy  which  gentlemen  have 
said  awaited  us,  I  have  never  seen.  I  have 
never  been  afraid  of  the  future,  in  the  course 
we  have  pursued  here.  The  bowlings  of  go- 
betweens  have  never  finghtened  me  in  the 
least.  But,  now,  inasmuch  as  it  has  been 
determined  here  to  unite  upon  one  Constitu- 
tion, I  shall  do  all  in  my  power,  when  it  shall 
come  before  the  people,  to  secure  its  adoption; 
not  because,  it  suits  me,  but  because,  under 
all  the  circumstances,  I  shall  be  disposed  to 
think  it  the  best  that  can  be  done. 

Mr.  SE COMBE  demanded  the  yeas  and 
nays  upon  the  pending  question:  Shall  the 
report  be  ordered  to  a  third  reading?  and 
they  were  ordered,  and  being  taken,  resulted 
— yeas  forty-two,  nays  eight,  as  follows : 

Teas. — Messrs.  Aldrich,  Anderson,  Balcombe, 
Baldwin,  Bates,  Bartholomew,  BoHes,  Butler, 
Cleghorn,  Colburn,  Coe,  Cederstam,  Coombs, 
Duley,  Dickerson.  Eschlie,  Foster,  Galbraith,  Hay- 
den,  Harding,  King,  Kemp,  Lyle,  Mantor,  Mc(yann, 
McClure,  Messer,  Morgan,  Mills,  Murphy,  North, 
Phelps,  Perkins,  Peckham,  Russell,  Stannard,  Fc- 
combe,  Smith,  Vaughn,  Walker,  "Watson  and 
Wilson.— 42. 

Kayi. — Messrs.  Billings,  Coggswell,  Daris,  Ger- 
rish,  Hanson,  Holley,  McKune  and  Bobbins. — 8. 

So  the  report  was  ordered  to  be  read  the 
third  time. 

Mr.  MANTOR.  Mr.  President:  I  move 
to  suspend  the  rules  so  iar  as  to  allow  the 
report  to  be  read  the  third  time  now,  by  its 
title.  ^ 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  Mr.  President:  I  hope 
that  motion  will  not  prevail.  I  was  so  unfor- 
tunate as  not  to  get  in  this  morning,  until 
quite  a  large  portion  of  the  report  had  been 
read  through.  It  seems  to  me  it  ought  to  be 
read  again  at  large. 

Mr.  BILLINGS.    Mr.  Pbesi*xt  :  I  hope 


it  will  be  read  again.  I  presume  there  are 
others  who  have  not  heard  it,  and  that  other 
gentlemen  who  had  heard  it,  when  they  come 
to  hear  it  again  will  vote  differently. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  Mr.  President:  I 
shaU  object  to  the  reading.  It  will  require 
too  much  time.  This  is  a  dose  that  has  got 
to  go  down,  and  we  might  as  well  shut  our 
eyes  and  open  our  mouth  and  take  it 
[Laughter.] 

Mr.  WILSON.  Mr.  President  :  I  certain- 
ly think  this  is  a  question  upon  which  we 
ought  not  to  be  in  too  much  haste  about  the 
vote. 

The  PRESIDENT.  The  Chair  wiU  take  a 
division  of  the  question. 

The  first  question  being  on  a  dispensation 
of  the  rules  so  as  to  admit  of  the  third  read- 
ing now,  was  carrief^l,  and  the  second  ques- 
tion, "  shall  the  rules  be  suspended  so  as  to 
"  allow  the  report  to  be  read  by  its  title  ?" 
was  also  agreed  to. 

The  question  recurring  on  the  final  passage 
of  the  report— Mr.  COGGSWELL  demanded 
the  yeas  and  nays,  and  they  were  ordered. 

Mr.  BATES.  Mr.  President  :  I  have  been 
so  unfortunate  as  not  to  have  heard  the  read- 
ing of  the  report,  and  I  ask,  on  this  account, 
to  be  excused  fi'om  voting  on  this  question. 

The  PRESIDENT.  The  Chair  wiU  enter- 
tain the  gentleman's  motion. 

Mr.  WILSON.  Mr.  President:  I  make 
the  point  of  order,  that  a  majority  vote  can- 
not excuse  a  member  from  voting.  We  have 
a  rule  requiring  every  member  to  vote,  and 
to  excuse  from  voting  involves  a  suspension 
of  the  rules. 

The  PRESIDENT.  It  is  still  the  opinion 
of  the  Chair  that  a  majority  can  excuse  a 
member  from  voting. 

Mr.  WILSON.  I  think  then,  Mr.  Presi- 
dent, the  latter  part  of  the  rule,  as  to  the 
time  when  the  motion  shall  be  put,  cuts  off 
the  present  motion. 

Mr.  BATES.  Mr.  President  :  I  would  like 
to  know  if  a  man  must  vote  without  having 
ever  heard  the  proposition  ? 

The  PRESIDENT.  The  Secretary  had 
not  begun  to  call  the  roll. 

Mr.  WILSON.  I  wUl  say,  that  I  hate  to 
vote  on  this  report  most  awfully  myself,  and 
I  am  therefore,  perhaps,  the  more  willing  to 
excuse  all  I  can. 


582 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Feiday,  August  28. 


Mr.  COLBURN.  Mr.  Pbesident:  Now 
that  the  gentleman  has  helped  us  to  get  up 
this  prescription,  I  hope  he  will  be  willing  to 
help  us  swallow  it. 

The  motion  to  excuse  Mr.  Bates  was  re- 
jected. 

The  question  on  the  final  passage  of  the 
report  of  the  joint  committee  of  Conference 
was  then  taken  and  resulted — ayes  forty-two, 
nays  eight,  as  follows : 

Yeas — Messrs.  Aldrich,  Anderson,  Baldwin, 
Bartholomew,  Bolles,  Butler,  Cleghorn,  Colburn, 
Coe,  Cederstam,  Coombs,  Duley,  Dickerson,  Esch- 
lie,  Foster,  Galbraith,  Hayden,  Harding,  King, 
Kemp,  Lyle,  Mantor,  McCann,  McClure,  Messer, 
Morgan,  Mills,  Murphy,  North,  Phelps,  Perkins, 
Peckham,  Russell,  Stannard,  Secombe,  Smith, 
Thompson,  Vaughn,  Walker,  Watson,  Wilson  and 
Mr.  President — 42. 

Nays — Messrs.  Billings,  Coggswell,  Davis,  Ger- 
rish,  Hanson,  Holley,  McKune  and  Robbins— 8. 

So  the  report  of  the  committee  on  Confer- 
ence was  agreed  to. 

When  Mr.  HAYDEN'S  name  was  called, 
he  explained  and  said:  Mr.  Pbesident:  I 
have  deteniiined  to  vote  Aye  here,  because  I 
prefer  this  report  to  falling  back  upon  the 
Constitution  we  have  been  framing,  and  there- 
by involving  the  submission  of  two  Constitu- 
tions. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  Mr.  Pbesident  :  I  de- 
sire to  make  another  motion  here,  to  make  it 
show  upon  the  record  what  has  been  done. — 
I  move  to  substitute  the  Constitution  embrac- 
ed in  the  report  just  passed  for  the  several 
Articles  of  the  Constitution  which  the  Con- 
vention have  heretofore  adopted. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL  demanded  the  yeas 
and  nays  upon  this  motion,  and  they  were 
ordered,  and  being  taken  resulted — yeas  forty, 
nays  seven,  as  follows : 

Yeas — Messrs.  Aldrich,  Anderson,  Baldwin, 
Bartholemew,  Bolles,  Butler,  Cleghorn,  Colburn, 
Coe,  Cederstam,  Coombs,  Duley,  Dickerson,  Esch- 
lie,  Foster,  Galbraith,  Hayden,  Harding,  King, 
Kemp,  Lyle,  McCann,  McClure,  Messer,  Morgan, 
Mills,  Murphy,  North,  Phelps,  Perkins,  Peckham, 
Russell,  Stannard,  Secombe,  Smith,  Thompson, 
Vaughn,  Walker,  Watson  and  Mr.  President — 40. 

Says — Messrs.  Billings,  Coggswell,  Davis,  Ger- 
rish,  Uanson,  Holley  and  Robbins — ^7. 

Mr.  NORTH.  Mr.  President  :  the  ques- 
tion arises  in  my  mind  whether  this  is  a  cor- 
rect way  of  proceeding  at  this  time.  The  idea 
of  substituting  a  proposition  for  matter  that 


has  already  passed  from  us,  it  seems  to  me> 
cannot  be  according  to  rule. 

A  VOICE.     Too  late. 

Mr.  NORTH.  Perhaps  not.  There  is  yet, 
perhaps,  such  a  thing  as  reconsidering  what 
we  have  heretofore  done,  and  laying  it  upon 
the  table,  according  to  our  rules.  But  we 
have  already  passed  various  articles  of  a  Con- 
stitution, and  the  question  is,  does  this  vote 
repeal  what  we  have  thus  done  ?  does  not 
that  work  stands  as  the  legal  Constitution,  as 
far  as  it  goes  ?  It  seems  to  me  that  is  a  ques- 
tion worth  considering.  It  seems  to  me  it 
would  be  in  order  to  reconsider  the  several 
votes  passing  those  articles,  and  then  lay 
them  all  on  the  table.  That  course  would 
place  them  where  they  could  not  be  meddled 
with.  But  I  would  first  move  to  reconsider 
the  vote  just  taken. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  Mr.  President:  I 
hope  that  motion  will  not  prevail.  I  will  give 
my  reasons :  I  regard  it,  sir;  as  a  fixed  fact, 
that  we  have  made  fools  of  ourselves  from  the 
very  .commencement  down  to  the  present 
time.  We  have  proceeded  in  an  unparlia- 
mentary manner  time  after  time,  and  time 
after  time  we  have  passed  solemn  votes  and 
then  backed  out.  I  propose  now,  after  hav- 
ing taken  this  si  -.nd,  that  we  stick  to  it,  and 
swear  that  we  will  not  back  down  on  this. 
We  have  played  the  back-water  trick  long 
enough,  it  seems  to  me.  I  have  got  sick 
of  it. 

Mr.  HAYDEN.  Mr.  President  :  I  am  not 
in  favor  of  this  back-handed  work,  in  the  way 
of  accusations  against  the  proceedings  of  this 
Convention,  alleging  that  we  have  been  un- 
parliamentary and  all  that.  Gentlemen 
should  not  throw  out  such  assertions.  In 
regard  to  the  present  question,  I  suppose 
this  proceeding  is  all  perfectly  correct.  As 
to  those  reports  that  have  been  passed  and 
now  superceded,  if  nothing  more  is  done, 
with  them,  they  remain  just  like  any  other 
reports  that  have  foiled.  This  which  we  have 
just  finally  passed,  has  become  the  Constitu- 
tion, and  the  other  cannot  become  so  while 
this  exists. 

The  PRESIDENT.  The  Chair  will  state, 
that,  although  reports  of  the  various  articles 
of  a  Constitution  have  been  passed  upon,  still 
the  Constitution,  as  a  whole,  lias  not  been 
finally  passdH  upon  until  the  last  vote  was 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Friday,  August  28. 


583 


taken.  Hence  those  other  former  reports  are 
left  in  an  incomplete  state,  and  so  amount  to 
nothing.  The  case  is  similar  to  that  where  a 
bill  goes  from  one  House  to  the  other,  and  re- 
mains there  untouched. 

Mr.  NORTH.  If  that  is  the  decision  of 
the  Chair,  I  withdraw  the  motion  to  recon- 
sider. 

Mr.SECOMBE.  Mr.  Pbesidext  :  It  seems 
to  me  there  is  no  necessity  for  going  back, 
but  that  we  have  got  yet  one  step  further  to 
take  in  going  forward.  We  have  heretofore 
passed  the  various  readings  of  the  various  re- 
ports of  our  several  standing  committees  by 
their  titles,  as  reports.  We  have  now  had 
before  us  the  report  of  this  special  commit- 
tee, and  that  has  been  passed  upon  in  the 
same  manner,  by  its  title,  as  the  Report  of 
the  Conference  Committee.  I  ask  you,  sir,  if 
that  is  the  name  of  the  instrument  we  intend 
to  send  abroad  ?  We  have  substituted  this 
report  for  the  others  ;  and  now,  it  seems  to 
me,  we  should  adopt  this  report  as  the  Con- 
stitution, and  I  move,  that  the  report  of  the 
Conference  committee  be  adopted  as  the  Con- 
stitution of  the  State  of  Minnesota. 

The  PRESIDENT.  That  was  the  effect  of 
the  last  vote. 

Mr.  FOSTER.  Mr.  Presidext  :  I  will  read 
as  a  part  of  my  remarks,  two  resolutions 
which  I  think  had  better  be  adopted  in  place 
of  that  motion.  It  is  proper  that  some  offi- 
cial notice  should  be  given  to  the  other  body 
as  to  the  action  taken  here  upon  the  joint  re- 
port. I  doubt  whether  we  had  better  take 
the  final  vote  till  the  who'e  thing  shall  be 
fully  prepared  and  ready.     The  resolutions 

are — 

• 

"  Resolved,  That  the  report  of  the  committee  of 
Conference,  as  read  the  third  time  and  passed  by 
the  Convention,  is  hereby  referred  to  said  commit- 
tee, to  be  by  them  carefully  compared  with  the  re- 
port as  adopted  by  the  other  body ;  and  that  the 
committee  of  Conference  be  instructed  to  arrange 
and  number  the  articles  of  the  Constitution  in 
their  proper  order,  and  immediately  cause  the 
whole  Constitution  to  be  correctly  enrolled  for  its 
due  verification  and  authentication  by  the  Con- 
vention. 

"  Itesolved,  That  the  President  of  this  Conven- 
tion communicate  the  fact  of  the  adoption  of  the 
report  of  the  committee  of  Conference,  without 
amendment,  and  the  passage  of  the  above  resolu- 
tion, to  the  President  of  the  Convention  sitting  in 
.the  Cpujicil  Chamber  of  the  Capitol." 


I  have  so  shaped  the  first  resolution,  that 
the  verification  of  the  Constitution  by  the 
signatures  of  members  of  the  Convention, 
can  be  done  at  any  time  that  may  be  conven- 
ient. Some  gentlemen  do  not  wish,  perhaps, 
to  remain  to  the  final  adjournment,  and  this 
allows  us  to  authenticate  by  the  signatures  of 
those  that  remain  with  the  officers  of  the 
Convention. 

The  resolutions  were  adopted. 

PRINTING  OF  THE  PROCEEDINGS   AND  DEBATES. 

Mr.  COLBURN  called  up  the  considera- 
tion of  his  resolution  of  yesterday,  author- 
izing the  President  of  this  Convention  to  con- 
tract for  the  printing  and  binding  of  two 
thousand  copies  of  the  report  of  the  Proceed- 
ings and  Debates  of  this  Convention,  &c.,  by 
the  official  Reporter. 

Mr.  ROBBINS.  I  understand  that  the  res- 
olution provides  for  the  publication  of  the  De- 
bates of  the  Constitutional  Convention.  I 
would  ask  the  gentleman  from  Fillmore  (Mr. 
Colburn)  what  the  object  is  in  publishing 
debates  which  have  no  reference  whatever  to 
the  Constitution  wljich  we  have  adopted. 

Mr.  IIAYDEN.  I  would  ask  the  gentle- 
man from  Olmsted  if  the  subject  matter  of 
the  various  articles  in  the  Constitution  we 
have  adopted,  or  are  about  to  adopt,  have  not 
all  been  discussed  in  these  debates. 

Mr.  ROBBINS.  I  understand  that  this 
report  which  we  have  agreed  to,  and  which  is 
the  Constitution  itself,  was  got  up  by  the 
committee  of  Conference  appointed  by  the 
two  bodies,  and  not  by  the  Conventions  them- 
selves. We  may  have  discussed  articles  sim- 
ilar to  them,  but  to  say  that  our  debates  have 
any  reference  to  this  Constitution,  seems  to 
me  to  be  eiToneous. 

Again,  the  publication  of  these  reports  will 
cost  a  large  sum.  It  seems  to  me  that  the 
expenditure  is  unnecessary.  If  the  gentle- 
man will  move  to  have  the  reports  of  to-day's 
proceedings  printed,  I  will  vote  for  it,  but  I 
shall  vote  against  expending  five  or  six  thou- 
sand dollars  for  pubUshing  matter  which  has 
no  connection  with  our  Constitution. 

Mr.  NORTH.  I  hope  we  shall  have  some- 
thing to  show  what  we  have  been  about  all 
this  time.  If  we  do  not  have  these  proceed- 
ings pubUshed  the  people  will  not  know  what 
we  have  been  doing.     (Laughter.) 

Mr.   COLBURN.     I  believe  that  nearly 


684 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Friday,  August  28. 


every  member  of  the  Convention  is  desirous 
of  having  the  report  of  our  debates  printed. 

A  similar  course  has  been  taken  by  the 
body  in  the  other  end  of  the  Capitol,  and  I 
presume  they  will  not  be  ashamed  of  their 
debates.  I  will  not  consume  the  time  of  the 
Convention  in  discussing  this  matter,  for  I 
presume  the  mind  of  every  member  is  made 
up. 

Mr.  PERKINS.  According  to  the  idea  of 
the  gentleman  from  Olmsted  (Mr.  Robbins) 
if  a  report  has  been  before  this  body  and  dis- 
cussed, and  finally  a  substitute  adopted  in  its 
place,  all  the  debate  upon  that  report  should 
be  excluded  from  the  reported  debates.  That 
is  a  wrong  idea.  We  want  to  publish  our 
whole  proceedings,  and  give  them  to  the  pub- 
lic eye.  The  public  will  then  know  what  has 
been  transpiring  here  during  the  six  or  seven 
weeks  we  have  been  sitting  here.  I  presume 
the  Convention  will  be  nearly  unanimous  in 
favor  of  the  publication. 

Mr.  ROBBINS.  I  beUeve  the  Convention 
have  decided  to-day  that  they  have  done  noth- 
ing for  the  last  six  or  seven  weeks.  We  have 
done  more  to-day,  than  we  have  done  from 
the  time  we  came  here  until  to-day.  Our 
work  heretofore  has  been  nothing  at  all  and  I 
do  not  approve  of  the  expense  of  having  a 
report  of  our  work  printed. 

Mr.  KING.  I  think  it  will  be  nothing  but 
just  to  order  the  debates  taken  down  by  our 
reporter,  printed.  The  Convention  will  re- 
collect that  when  the  subject  of  employing  a 
reporter  first  came  up  in  caucus,  some  of  us 
opposed  it  pretty  strongly.  But  some  of  the 
friends  of  the  measure  got  the  matter  in  such 
a  shape  as  to  do  away  the  objection  which 
many  of  us  had,  and  our  reporter  was  cn\- 
ployed.  Now  it  would  be  the  most  ridiculous 
thing  we  have  done,  after  employing  a  repor- 
ter, to  refuse  to  put  those  reports  in  print. 
Let  those  who  were  so  anxious  to  have  our 
proceedings  reported  be  gratified  in  seeing  their 
long  speeches  in  print.  "Hope  deferred 
maketh  the  heart  sick."  Why  cut  off  all  hope 
of  seing  the  great  speeches  of  smart  men 
upon  this  Constitution  I  For  myself  I  would 
not  make  this  speech  for  the  whole  five  vol- 
umes which  are  proposed  to  be  given  to  mo. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  would  bo  glad  to  give 
the   gentleman    a  reasonable  price  for  his 


speech,  and  take  his  five  volumes  of  reports. 
(Laughter.) 

Mr.  BILLINGS.  I  offered  an  amendment 
to  that  resolution  yesterday,  providing  that 
the  surplus  copies  should  be  distributed 
among  the  several  counties  in  proportion  to 
their  respective  representation  in  the  Legis- 
lature. I  suggested  that  amendment,  believ- 
ing it  would  make  the  distribution  more  equi- 
table throughout  the  State. 

Mr.  ROBBINS.  I  move  to  strike  out  the 
word  "  President"  and  insert  "  Secretary." 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  am  satisfied  that  our 
President  will  shrink  from  no  responsibility 
we  may  impose  upon  him,  and  as  he  is  my 
choice  I  am  opposed  to  the  amendment. 

The  amendments  were  not  agreed  to,  and 
the  resolution  as  originally  introduced  was 
adopted. 

PAY   OF   MEMBERS,    AC. 

Mr.  BILLINGS  offered  the  following  res- 
olution : 

"  Besolved,,  That  the  President  appoint  a  com- 
mittee of  three  whose  duty  it  shall  be  to  ascertain 
what  discount  it  will  be  necessary  to  make  on  the 
script  issued  to  the  members  and  officers  of  this 
Convention  for  tnileage  and  per  diem,  for  cash  at 
this  time,  and  that  an  additional  amount  be  allowed 
to  each  equal  to  such  discount." 

The  resolution  was  subsequently  with- 
drawn, and  Mr.  Coggswell  renewed  it. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  I  am  informed  that 
the  other  Convention  have  passed  a  similar 
resolution,  and  after  what  we  have  done,  that 
Convention  ought  to  be  good  authority  for 
anything. 

Mr.  PHELPS.  I  understand  that  they 
voted  that  resolution  down. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  Whether  they  voted 
it  up  or  down  I  do  not  know,  but  if  they  have 
passed  it,  we  ought  to  pass  it,  and  if  they 
have  voted  it  down,  we  ought  to  vote  it  down 
— such  is  my  faith  in  that  authority.  (Laugh- 
ter.) We  have  followed  the  other  Conven- 
tion from  the  time  of  our  first  coming  here, 
and  I  prefer  now  to  follow  them  through  to 
the  end. 

On  motion  of  Mr.  MANTOR,  the  resolution 
was  laid  on  the  table. 

ENBOI.LING   CONSTITUTION. 

Mr.  CLEGHORN  offered  the  following  res- 
olution— 

"  Resolved,  That  the  committee  of  Conference  be 
justructed  to  employ  a  sutliciont  number  of  copy- 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— SATrROAY,  August  29. 


585 


ists  to  enrol  the  Constitution,  and  have  it  prepared 
for  authentication  by  members  of  this  Convention 
early  to-morrow  morning." 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  I  would  enquire 
what  method  has  been  fixed  upon,  if  any,  for 
the  authentication  of  the  Constitution.  Is  it 
to  be  by  the  signatures  simply  of  the  Presi" 
dent  and  Secretary,  or  by  those  of  each 
member  ? 

Mr.  STANNARD.  I  would  enquire  if  the 
gentleman  would  sign  the  Constitution  if  he 
had  a  chance. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  I  wiU  tell  the  gentle- 
man when  it  is  presented  to  me.  I  never 
dodge  when  the  time  comes. 

Mr.  McCLURE.  No  particular  arrange- 
ment has  been  adopted,  that  I  know  o£ 

The  resolution  was  agreed  to. 

ACTHEXTICATION   OF    THE    COSSTITUTION. 

Mr.  COLBURN  offered  the  following  reso- 
lution— 

"Besolved,  That  the  President  and  Secretary  of 
this  Convention  be  authorized  and  empowered  to 
authenticate  the  Constitution  adopted  by  this  Con- 
vention by  signing  the  same  in  their  oflScial  capa- 
city." 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  I  have  no  objection 
to  that. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  I  move  that  tha  reso- 
lution be  laid  on  the  table. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to. 

Mr.  KEMP  offered  the  following  resolu- 
tion— 

"  JSesolved,  That  the  Constitution  as  formed  by 
this  Convention  be  authenticated  by  the  signatures 
of  each  member  of  this  Convention." 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  move  to  lay  the  reso- 
lution on  the  table.  I  understand  the  com- 
mittee of  Conference  have  that  matter  imder 
consideration. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to. 

SUPPLIES   AXD   EXPEXDITUBES. 

Mr.  ALDRICH,  from  the  committee  on 
Supphes  and  Expenditures  made  the  follow- 
ing report — ■ 

"Your  committee  have  examined  the  follow- 
ing bills  presented  to  them,  and  find  said  bills  to 
be  correct,  and  recommend  that  orders  be  drawn 
for  the  payment  of  the  same : — 
T.  M.  Newson  &  Co.,  for  newspapers  fur- 
nished the  members  and  officers  of  this 

Convention $481  87 

Minnesota  Dutch  Zeitung,  for  newspapers 
furnished  the  members  and  officers  of 
this  Convention 61  00 

74 


Owens  &  Moore,  for  newspapers  furnished 
and  printing  done  for  this  Convention. .  1,566  78 

Gustave  Leue,  for  articles  furnished  the 
Convention  as  per  bill  rendered 30  35 

Von  Hamm,  agent,  for  stationery  furnish- 
ed the  members  as  per  order  of  Con- 
vention      305  00 

Yon  Hamm,  for  stationery  furnished  the 
Secretary  as  per  order  of  Convention. .      52  95 


2,497  9« 

Mr.  CLEGHORN.  I  would  enquire  of  the 
Chairman  who  made  the  report,  if  he  can  tell 
us  at  what  rate  we  are  charged  for  newspa- 
pers? It  strikes  me  that  the  sum  reported  is 
exhorbitant. 

Mr.  ALDRICH.  I  am  assured  by  the 
publishers  that  they  have  charged  the  same 
that  has  always  been  charged  to  the  Legisla- 
ture, when  they  have  furnished  them  with 
papers,  and  no  more.  They  also  state  that 
they  have  to  wait  six,  twelve,  or  eighteen 
months  for  pay,  and  that  the  charge  is  no 
more  than  will  make  them  whole  when  they 
receive  their  pay. 

The  report  was  adopted. 

The  PRESIDENT  here  announced  the  fol- 
lowing commimication : 

"  Capitol,  August  28, 1857. 
Hon.  St.  A.  D.  Balcombe,  President : 
Sir  : — I  have  the  honor  to  communicate  to  yon 
the  fact  that  the  Convention  over  which  I  have  the 
honor  to  preside  has  adopted  the  report  of  their 
committee  of  Conference  without  amendment  or 
change. 

Very  respectfully. 

Your  ob't  servant, 

H.  H.  Sibley,  President." 

PUBLICATION   OF   JOUBXAL. 

Mr.  CLEGHORN  offered  the  foUowing  res- 
olution, which  was  read,  considered  and  agreed 
to— 

"Sesolved,  That  the  Secretaiy  of  this  Conven- 
tion be  instructed  to  prepare  an  exact  copy  of 
the  Journal  of  this  Convention,  and  that  2,000 
copies  be  printed  and  disposed  of  in  the  same  man- 
ner as  the  Proceedings  and  Debates  of  the  Con- 
vention— and  the  expense  be  defrayed  in  the  same 
manner." 

And  then,  on  motion  of  Mr.  LYLE,  the 
Convention  adjourned. 

FORTY-SECOND  DAY. 

•   Satubdav,  August  29, 1857. 
The  Convention  met  at  nine  o'clock  a.  m. 
The  journal  of  yesterday  was  read  and  ap- 
proved. 


686 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Saturday,  August  29. 


Mr.  ALDKICH  offered  the  following  reso- 
lution, which  was  considered  and  adopted : 

"Hesolved,  That  the  President  of  this  Convention 
be  and  he  is  hereby  authorized  to  audit  the  account 
of  T.  F.  Andrews,  the  oflScial  Reporter  of  this 
Convention  for  reporting  the  Proceedings  and  De- 
biites  thereof  when  the  same  shall  be  written  out, 
and  prepared  for  publication,  and  that  he  grant 
his  certificate  or  certificates  thereof,  attested  by 
the  Secretary  of  this  Convention  for  the  payment 
of  the  same." 

Mr.  ALDRICH  offered  the  following  reso- 
lution, which  was  considered  and  agreed  to — 

"  Besolved,  That  the  President  of  this  Conven- 
tion be  and  he  is  hereby  authorized  to  audit  the 
account  of  Owens  &  Moore,  the  official  printers  of 
this  body,  for  all  printing  they  have  been  instruct- 
ed to  do  hereafter — for  this  Convention,  and  grant 
his  certificate  or  certificates  thereof  attested  by 
the  Secretary  of  this  Convention  for  the  pay- 
ment of  the  same." 

Mr.  COGGSWELL  offered  the  following 
resolution — 

"Besolved,  That  in  making  up  the  expenses  of 
this  Convention,  the  President  and  Secretary  be 
instructed  to  allow  to  each  member  and  ofiicer  of 
the  said  Convention  such  additional  sum  as  may 
be  necessary  to  realize  in  cash  the  full  amount  of 
their  per  diem  and  milage." 

Mr.  C.  said : — The  resolution  which  I  now 
offer  is  word  for  word,  like  the  resolution 
which  the  other  Convention  passed  yesterday. 
It  does  seem  that  it  is  nothing  more  than 
right  we  should  receive  our  full  pay.  It  is 
well  known  that  it  is  insufficient  to  compen- 
sate us  for  our  tune,  trouble  and  expense.  So 
far  as  the  equity  and  legality  of  the  thing  is 
concerned,  I  have  no  doubt  about  it  at  all, 
and  I  hope  the  resolution  will  be  passed 
unanimously. 

Mr.  MANTOR.  I  am  opposed  to  that  res- 
olution. I  am  opposed  to  it  because  I  think 
our  script  in  this  end  of  the  Capitol  is  worth 
twenty-five  cents  more  than  theirs.  I  have 
no  doubt  of  that,  and  for  my  own  part  I  am 
not  willing  to  take  less  than  one  hundred  cents 
on  the  dollar.  I  trust  the  Convention  will 
not  pass  the  resolution. 

The  PRESIDENT.  The  resolution  having 
given  rise  to  debate,  lies  over  imder  the  rules. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  I  move  to  suspend 
the  rules  so  far  as  to  allow  the  resolution  to 
be  considered  now. 

The  motion  was  not  agreed  to. 

Mr.  DAVIS  offered  the  following  rcsolu- 
tion: 


"Hesolved,  That  incase  the  Auditor  and  Trea- 
surer refuse  to  recognize  the  certificates  for 
services  and  compensation  of  the  Convention 
holding  its  sessions  in  the  west  end  of  the  Capitol, 
and  especially  that  in  favor  of  Willis  A.  Gorman, 
that  the  President,  St.  A.  D.  Balcombe,  and  L.  A. 
Babcock,  Secretary  of  this  Constitutional  Conven- 
tion, be  authorized  to  sign  the  same,  and  the  said 
Auditor  and  Treasurer  upon  presentation  of  said 
certificates  signed  by  said  Balcombe  and  Babcock, 
as  aforesaid,  be,  and  are  hereby  requested  to 
recognise  said  certificates." 

Mr,  SECOMBE  moved  to  lay  the  resolution 
upon  the  table. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to. 

Mr.  CLEGHORN  submitted  the  following : 

"Hesolved,  That  any  member  of  this  Convention 
whe  may  not  be  present  to  sign  the  Constitution 
this  day,  may  sign  the  same  in  the  office  where  it 
shall  be  deposited  for  safe  keeping,  at  any  time 
after  the  adjournment  sine  die,  and  before  the  first 
day  of  October  next." 

On  motion  of  Mr.  COLBURN,  the  resolu- 
tion was  laid  on  the  table. 

Mr.  COLBURN  offered  the  following  reso- 
lution, and  moved  to  suspend  the  rules  to 
consider  the  same  at  the  present  time,  viz : 

"Hesolved,  That  the  President  of  this  Conven- 
tion be  instructed,  in  auditing  the  account  of  the 
official  reporter  of  this  Convention,  to  allow  him 
in  addition  to  the  compensation  to  which  he  shall 
be  entitled  under  the  resolution  of  July  18, 1857, 
employing  him,  such  additional  sum  as  may  be 
necessary  to  realize  in  cash  the  full  amount  to 
which  he  shall  be  so  entitled  as  aforesaid  without 
discount." 

The  motion  to  suspend  the  rule  was  agreed 
to. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  I  do  not  know  as  it  is 
necessary  to  say  anything  in  regard  to  this 
resolution.  It  is  well  known  that  the  Con- 
vention sitting  in  the  other  end  of  the  Capitol 
have  passed  a  similar  resolution  in  regard  to 
their  reporter.  Simple  justice  seems  to  re- 
quire that  we  should  be  as  liberal  as  they  are- 

The  resolution  was  agreed  to. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL'S  resolution  of  yester- 
day, appointing  a  committee  of  three  to  as- 
certainthe  rate  of  discount  on  the  scrip  issued 
for  the  per  diem  and  mileage  of  members, 
coming  up  in  order — 

Mr.  SECOMBE  said — I  hope  the  resolution 
will  not  be  adopted.  The  act  of  the  Terri- 
torial Legislature  making  an  appropriation  of 
$30,000  for  paying  tlic  expenses  of  holding 
the  Constitutional  Convention,  is  definite  upon 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Satceday,  AcorsT  29. 


587 


the  point  of  compensation  of  members.  It  is 
provided  that  the  members  and  officers  pf  the 
Convention  shall  be  entitled  to  the  same  pay 
as  members  and  officers  of  the  Legislative 
Assembly,  and  that  the  payment  shall  be 
made  in  a  certain  manner — ^by  drafts  drawn 
upon  the  treasury  by  the  President  and  Sec- 
retary of  the  Convention.  Now  I  trust  the 
Convention  will  not  attempt  to  legislate  upon 
this  matter,  but  will  quietly  receive  what  has 
been  provided  for  them  by  law.  If  it  should 
appear,  upon  the  organization  of  the  State 
government,  that  the  members  of  the  Con- 
vention had  not  been  paid  enough,  I  think  we 
may  rely  upon  the  generosity  of  the  future 
State. 

Mr.  NORTH.  I  would  enquire,  through 
the  chair,  if  any  member  has  a  copy  of  that 
act  of  the  Territorial  Legislature  ? 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  We  have  twice  had  an 
order  of  this  Convention  for  the  printing  of 
two  hundred  copies  of  that  act.  We  had  a 
committee  appointed  to  procure  a  certified 
copy  of  the  act  for  the  use  of  the  Convention. 
A  copy  was  obtained  and  sent  to  the  printer, 
and  yet,  after  all  of  our  endeavors,  we  have 
not  been  able  to  procure  it  laid  upon  our  tables. 
It  seems  as  if  there  had  been  some  determi- 
nation that  the  act  should  not  come  into  this 
Convention. 

The  resolution  was  not  agreed  to. 
Mr.  ALDRICH  offered  and  put  the  follow- 
ing resolution : 

"Hesolved,  That  the  thanks  of  this  Convention 
be  and  are  hereby  tendered  to  the  President,  Sec- 
retary, Reporter,  and  other  oflScers  of  this  body, 
for  the  able,  faithful  and  courteous  manner  in 
which  they  have  respectively  discharged  their 
duties." 
The  resolution  was  unanimously  adopted. 
Mr.  WILSON  oflfered  the  following  resolu- 
tion: 

"  Resolved,  That  the  President  be  instructed  to 
appoint  some  suitable  person  or  persons  to  trans- 
late the  Constitution  into  the  German,  French, 
Sweedish,  and  Norwegian  languages,  and  that  the 
expenses  thereof  be  paid  out  of  the  fund  appro, 
priated  for  defraj-ing  the  expenses  of  this  Conven- 
tion." 

Mr.  McKUNE.  I  fliove  to  amend  by  in- 
cluding the  Chippewa  language,  in  order  to 
allow  those  civilized  Indians  to  read  the  Con- 
titution.     (Laughter.) 

Mr.  DAVIS.     And  the  Winnebagoes, 


Mr,  MESSER.  When  they  become  civi- 
lized they  will  be  able  to  read  the  English 
language. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL.  I  rise  to  a  point  of 
order.  This  resolution  having  given  rise  to 
debate,  lays  over  under  the  rule. 

The  PRESIDENT.  The  chau-  holds  the 
point  of  order  well  taken. 

Mr.  WATSON.  I  move  to  suspend  the 
rules  so  far  as  to  allow  the  resolution  to  be 
considered  now. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to,  (two-thirds  vo- 
ting in  favor  thereof) 

Mr.  McKUNE.  I  hope  the  resolution  will 
not  be  passed.  We  are  anxious  as  a  party 
to  do  everything  we  can  to  poll  a  large  vote 
this  fall,  and  if  we  publish  this  evidence  of 
our  M^Y  we  shall  lose  a  great  many  votes. 

Mr.  COLBURN,  The  gentleman's  argu- 
ments of  to-day  and  those  of  yesterday,  do 
not  seem  to  correspond, 

Mr.  McKUNE.  We  are  married  now — 
one  flesh  and  blood,  one  soul  and  body. 

Mr.  WILSON.  I  believe  this  is  the  first 
time  that  I  have  come  seriously  in  conflict 
with  my  friend  upon  my  right  (Mr.  McKune.) 
He  certainly  has  good  grit,  and  maintains  his 
consistency,  but  he  is  a  little  like  the  native 
of  the  forest,  who  stood  so  straight  that  he 
leaned  over  the  other  way.  It  foUowa  as  a 
matter  of  necessity,  from  what  we  have  done, 
that  we  should  pass  this  resolution. 
The  resolution  was  agreed  to. 
And  then,  on  motion  of  Mr.  MANTOR,  the 
Convention  took  a  recess  of  one  hour. 

At  the  expiration  of  the  hour  the  Conven- 
tion was  called  to  order  by  the  President, 

Mr.  WILSON  offered  the  following  resolu- 
tion, which  was  read,  considered  and  agreed 
to: 

"Resolved,  That  John  H.  Gowax,  Assistant  Ser- 
geant-at-Arms  to  the  Convention,  be  allowed  the 
sum  of  fifty  dollars  for  extra  services  by  him  per- 
formed, and  for  sums  of  money  by  him,  paid  to 
procure  necessary  assistance  in  the  performance 
of  his  duties  as  Assistant  Sergeant-at-Arms." 

Mr.  ALDRICH  offered  the  following  reso- 
lution, which  was  read,  considered  and 
agreed  to. 

Resolved,  That  the  President  and  Secretary  of 
this  Convention  are  hereby  authorized  and  in- 
structed to  audit  and  draw  orders  to  defray  all  con- 
tingent expenses  which  shall  arise  after  the 
adjournment,  and   which  have   been  authorized 


588 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Satuedat,  August  29. 


during  the  session  of  the  Convention,   and  not 
otherwise  provided  for." 

THE   CONSTITUTION   ENROLLED. 

Mr.  GALBRAITH,  from  the  joint  commit- 
tee of  Conference,  submitted  their  final  joint 
report  of  the  enrolled  Constitution  in  writing 
as  follows : 

"  The  joint  committee  of  the  two  Conventions 
appointed  to  agree  upon  and  submit  one  Constitu- 
tion to  be  submitted  to  the  people  of  the  State  of 
Minnesota  for  ratification  or  rejection,  would  re- 
spectfully report,  that,  in  accordance  with  the 
instructions  to  said  committee,  they  have  enrolled 
and  now  report  a  copy  of  the  Constitution  care- 
fully compared,  and  identical  with  the  copy  here- 
tofore reported  by  the  committee  and  adopted  by 
the  two  Conventions,  are  now  ready  for  ratifica- 
tion by  the  Conventions. 

M.  SHERBURNE,  Ghairman. 

L.  K.  Stannakd,  Sec'y. 

JOSEPH  R.  BROWN, 
W.  HOLCOMBE, 
W.  W.  KINGSBURY, 
THOS.  J.  GALBRAITH, 
CYRUS  ALDRICH, 
CHARLES  McCLURE." 

The  Constitution  as  thus  reported  enrolled, 
appears  in  the  Appendix. 

Mr.  SECOMBE  offered  the  foUowing  reso- 
lution : 

"  Besolved,  That  the  enrolled  report  of  the  com- 
mittee of  Conference  be  adopted  by  this  Conven- 
tion as  the  Constitution  of  the  State  of  Minnesota." 

Mr.  McCLURE.  What  occasion  is  there 
for  such  a  motion  ?  Did  we  not  virtually  do 
that  yesterday  ? 

The  PRESIDENT.  The  report  of  the 
committee  of  Conference  was  substituted  for 
the  previous  reports  which  have  been  hereto- 
fore adopted  by  the  Convention. 

The  resolution  was  agreed  to. 

On  motion  of  Mr.  SECOMBE,  the  three 
resolutions,  relating  to  the  manner  and  time 
of  authenticating  the  Constitution,  which  had 
been  laid  on  the  the  table,  were  taken  up  for 
consideration. 

The  resolutions,  as  heretofore  reported, 
were  read. 

Mr.  BATES.  I  would  enquire  if  the  com- 
mittee of  Conference  have  made  any  recom- 
mendation as  to  the  manner  of  authenticating 
the  Constitution  V 

Mr.  McCLURE,  I  understand  that  the 
other  Convention  intend  to  authenticate  it  by 
the  signature  of  each  member,  and  if  any 
members  are  absent,  that  they  will  pass  a 


resolution  authorizing  such  members  to  add 
their  names  hereafter. 

The  resolution  authorizing  the  authentica- 
tion by  the  signature  of  each  member,  was 
adopted. 

Mr.  CLEGHORN'S  resolution,  authorizmg 
absent  members  to  sign  the  Constitution  in 
the  office  of  the  Secretary  of  State,  at  any 
time  before  the  first  day  of  October  being 
read — 

Mr.  COLBURN  said :— WiU  it  be  possible 
to  do  that  after  the  Constitution  is  deposited  ? 
If  a  member  should  go  the  Secretar'y  office 
who  is  an  entire  stranger  to  the  Secretary, 
he  would  have  to  prove  his  identity,  even  if  he 
could  get  access  to  the  Constitution.  I  do 
not  think  this  Convention  can  control  the 
Constitution  after  it  is  deposited  with  the 
Secretary. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  There  is  a  mutual  un- 
derstanding that  a  resolution  of  the  like 
import  to  this,  shall  be  passed  by  both 
Conventions. 

Mr.  MANTOR.  I  do  not  believe  silch  a 
resolution  will  amount  to  anything.  I  do  not 
believe  the  Secretary  will  allow  individuals  to 
sign  the  Constitution  in  that  way.  After  it 
has  gone  out  of  the  hands  of  the  Convention 
it  is  no  longer  subject  to  the  control  of  the 
Convention. 

Mr.  ALDRICH.  In  examining  the  reports 
of  the  Ohio  Constitutional  Convention,  I  find 
a  resolution  in  these  words  : 

"  Resolved,  That  the  foregoing  Constitution  be 
signed  by  the  President  and  Secretary,  and  that 
the  members  now  present  proceed  to  sign  the  same 
in  attestation  thereof,  and  that  the  members  who 
are  absent  have  the  privilege  of  signing  it  in  the 
office  of  the  Secretary  of  State  at  any  time  be- 
tween this  and  the  first  day  of  September  next," 

I  think  there  will  be  no  difficulty  in  absent 
members  signing  it,  whenever  they  may  be  in 
the  city  hereafter. 

The  resolution  was  agreed  to. 

Mr.  STANNARD  offered  the  following 
resolution,  which  was  read,  considered  and 
agreed  to : 

"Besolved,  That  if  this  Constitution  be  adopted 
by  the  people,  that  the  Governor  of  this  Territory 
be,  and  he  is  hereby  requested  to  have  a  copy 
thereof  transcribed  on  parchment,  with  the  signa- 
tures attached,  for  preservation  in  the  archives  of 
Btate." 

Mr,  MANTOR  offered  the  following  resolu- 


MINNESOTA  CON'VENTION  DEBATES— Satcbday,  Acgfst  29. 


589 


tioQ,  which  was  read,  considered  and  agreed 
to:— 

"  Jiesohed,  That  Wm.  Shelley,  Messenger  of 
this  Convention,  be  allowed  fifty  dollars  for  extra 
services  rendered  to  the  same." 

Mr.  HAYDEN  moved  that  after  the  Presi- 
dent and  Secretary  had  signed  the  Constitu- 
tion, that  the  members  should  be  called  in 
alphabetical  order  to  sign  the  same. 

The  motion  was  agreed  to. 

Mr.  STANNARD  offered  the  following  res- 
olution, which  was  read,  considered  and 
agreed  to  : 

"Besohed,  That  the  Sergeant-at-Arms  of  this 
Convention  be  allowed  seventy-five  dollars  for 
extra  services  done  for  this  Convention." 

Mr.  GERRISH  offered  the  following: 

"  Bisolved,  That  the  members  of  this  Conven- 
tion, each,  receive  the  sum  of  seventy-five  dollars, 
as  extra  pay." 

The  resolution  was  rejected.  ' 

Mr.  COGGS  WELL.  I  move  to  re-consider 
the  vote  by  which  the  resolution  was  rejected. 
"We  have  already  voted  extra  pay  to  certain 
officers  of  this  Convention.  Now  under  the 
act  passed  at  the  extra  session,  if  we  have 
the  right  to  grant  extra  pay  to  any  of  the  of- 
ficers of  this  Convention,  we  have  the  right 
to  grant  extra  pay  to  ourselves.  I  propose 
to  go  the  whole  figure.  If  the  one  is  right, 
the  other  is  right. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  The  resolutions  we 
have  passed,  giving  extra  compensation,  state 
that  it  is  given  in  consideration  of  extra  servi- 
ces, and  extra  expenses. 

The  resolution  was  not  agreed  to. 

Mr.  COGGSWELL  offered  the  foUowing 
resolution : 

"Jiesolved,  That  the  members  of  this  Conven- 
tion receive  the  sum  of  fifty  dollars  each,  for  extra 
services." 

Mr.  C.  said:  So  far  as  I  am  concerned,  I 
have  no  objection  to  allowing  officers  of  this 
Convention  extra  pay,  if  they  have  performed 
extra  services.  They  have,  in  my  opinion, 
performed  extra  services ;  and,  therefore,  I 
do  not  object  to  the  resolutions  which  have 
been  passed.  But  while  I  admit  that  the  of- 
ficers of  this  Convention  have  performed  extra 
services,  I  know  that  the  members  of  the 
Convention  have.  I  do  not  guess  at  that. 
During  the  whole  ot  this  warfare,  from  the 
time  we  came  here  at  midnight,  I  know  it  has 


been  a  constant  train  of  extra  services — ser- 
vices which  never  have  been  performed  by 
any  Constitutional  body,  from  the  foundation 
of  the  government  down  to  the  present  time. 
We  came  here  at  the  dead  hour  of  the  night ; 
we  slept  here  night  after  night,  and  went 
hungry  and  tired  as  dc^ ;  and  not  only  that, 
but  we  have  performed  extra  services  in  other 
respects.  And  it  does  seem  to  me  that  we 
are  entitled  to  extra  pay.  For  that  reason,  I 
hope  we  shall  not  show  this  favoritism  to  our 
officers — whose  conduct  has  certainly  been 
praiseworthy — ^and  neglect  to  do  justice  to 
ourselves. 

The  PRESIDENT.  The  resolution  having 
given  rise  to  debate,  will  lie  over  one  day. 

Mr.  STANNARD.  I  move  a  suspension  of 
the  rules,  so  far  as  to  allow  its  consideration 
now. 

The  motion  was  not  agreed  to. 

Mr.  PERKINS  moved  that  the  Convention 
take  a  recess  until  half-past  two  o'clock, 
which  motion  was  not  agreed  to. 

Mr.  NORTH.  I  would  inquire  how  long 
it  will  be  before  it  will  be  in  order  to  proceed 
to  sign  the  Constitution. 

Mr.  SECOMBE.  I  understand  that  the 
Secretary  has  sent  for  a  sheet  of  parchment, 
on  which  to  make  the  signatm-es. 

And  then,  on  motion  of  Mr.  ROBBINS, 
the  Convention  took  a  recess  imtil  half-past 
two  o'clock. 

AFTERNOON  SESSION. 

The  Convention  was  called  to  order  pursu- 
ant to  adjournment. 

The  President  and  Secretary  of  the  Con- 
vention severally  attached  their  signatures  to 
the  Constitution,  after  which  the  members  of 
the  Convention,  as  their  names  were  called 
in  alphabetical  order,  came  forward  and  signed 
the  same. 

Mr.  ROBBINS  offered  the  following  resolu- 
tion : 

"  Resolved,  That  the  sum  of  seventy -five  dollars 
be  and  is  hereby  allowed  to  Johx  Q.  A.  Wakd,  for 
extra  services  as  Assistant  Secretary  of  this  Con- 
vention." 

Mr.  COGGSWELL  moved  to  amend  by 
inserting  after  "Ward,"  the  words,  "and 
"  also  to  each  member  of  this  Convention." 

The  amendment  was  not  agreed  to,  and  the 
resolution  was  adopted. 


590 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Satubdat,  August  29. 


PAY   OP   MEMBERS   AND   OFFICERS. 

Dr.  DAVIS.  I  would  inform  this  Con- 
vention that  Mr.  Mills  and  myself  just 
walked  down  into  the  Treasurer's  office  and 
presented  our  certificates.  The  Treasurer 
politely  told  us  that  they  wouid  not  recog- 
nize certificates  coming  from  this  body.  I 
make  tliis  statement  to  relieve  members  from 
the  necessity  of  making  a  journey  down 
there  for  nothing.  I  told  him,  however,  we 
should  be  happy  soon  to  put  a  good  Republi- 
can in  his  place,  who  would  recognize  these 
certificates. 

Mr.  NORTH  introduced  the  following  reso- 
lution : 

"Sesohed,  That  the  Convention  respectfully  re- 
quest the  Territorial  Treasurer  to  pay  all  certifi- 
cates of  the  members  of  either  Convention,  as 
well  as  those  signed  by  H.  II.  Siblky,  as  Presi- 
dent, and  J.  J.  Noah,  as  Secretary,  as  those  signed 
by  St.  A.  D.  Balcombe,  as  President,  and  L.  A. 
Babcock,  as  Secretary." 

I  hope,  said  Mr.  NORTH,  that  we,  as  mem- 
bers of  this  Convention,  will  continue  to 
maintain  our  honor,  and  let  the  people  of  this 
Territory  see  the  contrast  between  the  two 
Conventions,  if  there  is  any,  and  if  there  is 
not  any,  then  all  is  well. 

Mr.  FOSTER.  I  hope  the  resolution  will 
be  adopted.  When  the  Constitutional  Con- 
vention, composed  of  a  majority  of  duly 
elected  members  thereof,  sitting  in  this  Hall, 
agreed  to  descend  from  their  position,  so  far 
as  to  meet  the  seceding  members  and  to  ap- 
point a  committee  of  Conference  to  agree 
upon  one  Constitution,  I  say  it  was  a  part  of 
the  terms  of  that  compromise,  tacitly  under- 
stood, that  the  other  body  should  not  avail 
themselves  of  the  fact  that  the  Territorial 
Treasurer  was  of  their  party,  and  that  they 
would  not  control  him,  and  refuse  to  pay  the 
members  and  officers  of  this  Convention.  In 
violation  of  that  tacit  understanding,  and  in 
a  spirit  characteristic  of  all  their  transactions 
connected  with  this  body,  they  have  now  in- 
structed their  Treasurer,  as  we  have  reason 
to  think,  to  refuse  to  recognize  ^the  certifi- 
cates of  this  Convention.  The  Secretary 
tells  us  Hot  that  "  I  "  but  that  "  we  "  refuse 
to  recognize  the  certificates.  Who  is  "  we  ?  " 
The  Territorial  Treasurer,  and  those  behind 
him — the  Democratic  party,  the  power  behind 
the  throne.  We,  a  majority,  conceded  every- 
thing.   We  agreed  to  meet  them  upon  an 


equal  footing,  and  all  they  gave  in  return  was 
to  say  that  their  officers  should  do  what  they 
are  bound  by  law  to  do.  I  am  willing  to  go 
to  the  people  upon  the  small  issue  they  are 
raising,  and  the  people  will  take  care  that  the 
next  Treasurer  will  pay  the  members  and  of- 
ficers of  their  Constitutional  Convention, 

Mr.  SECOMBE.     I  hope  the  resolution  will 
not  be  adopted.     This  Convention  has  noth- 
ing whatever  to  do  with  the  matter.     There 
has  been  boys  play,  and  fool's  play  enough  at 
the  other  end  of  the  Capitol  about  this  sub- 
ject.  The  legisla ture  have  provided  the  means 
of  paying  the  members  of  the  Constitutional 
Convention,  and  having  provided  just  what 
shall  be  paid  and  just  how  it  shall  be  paid, 
this  Convention  has  no  power  to  change  the 
matter  in  the  least.      Now,  gentlemen  may 
think  that  by  passing  such  a  resolution  as  this, 
we  will  be  taking  the  wind  out  of  the  sails  of 
gentlemen  in  the  other  end  of  the  capitol.  We 
will  do  it  more  eifectually  by  passing  the 
matter ^over  in  silence.   We  will  present  to  the 
officer  of  the  Territory,  whose  duty  it  is  to 
pay  members  their  per  diem  and  mileage,  the 
proper  certificates,  authenticated  in^  the  pro- 
per manner,  which  the  law  says  shall  be  suffi- 
cient evidence  to  the  treasurer  of  the  claim  of 
each  member,  and  let  him  and  his  party  take 
the  responsibility  of  refusing  to  pay  them — a 
thing  which  they  have  announced  officially 
that  they  will  do.     The  Attorney  General  of 
the  Territory,  claming  a  seat  in  the  west  end 
of  the  Capitol,  announces  boldly,   "  I   know 
the  Treasurer  of  this  Territory  will  not  recog- 
nize the  organization   over  which  Mr.  Bal- 
combe presides."   How  docs  he  know  it  ?  He 
is  the  legal  adviser  of  that  Treasurer,  and 
there  is  a  pretty  violent  presumption   that  if 
he  "  knows  "  it,  it  is  because  he  has  beaten  it 
into  the  Treasurer,  and  has  enforced  the  in- 
structions, given  when  the  resolution    was 
passed  in  the  other  end  of  the  Capitol  advis- 
ing all  officers  to  refuse  to  recognize  us.     I 
hope  we  shall  go  about  our  business  and  not 
bother  with  his  boy's  play  which  was  com- 
menced at  the^other  end. 

Mr.  NORTH.  I  hope  the  resolution  will 
pass.  I  presume  there  is  not  a  member  of 
this  Convention  but  what  regards  the  other 
Convention  as  illegal ;  as  a  Convention  not 
properly  organized  for  framing  a  Constitution 
for  Minnesota.    But  this  Convention  prefers 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Saturday,  August  29. 


691 


anarchy  to  confusion ;  that  there  should  be 
one  Constitution  submitted  to  the  people,  be- 
cause it  is  for  their  interest,  in  a  social,  in  a 
pecuniary,  and  in  every  point  of  view. 

For  that  reason  we  have  condescended  to 
treat  with  them  as  equals,  under  an  implied 
and  express  understanding  that  the  members 
of  both  bodies  should  have  their  pay.  Now 
I  am  in  favor  of  this  Convention  carrying  out 
that  understanding,  in  its  full  spirit,  and  to 
the  letter.  However  meanly  others  may  act, 
I  trust  this  Convention  will  continue  to  do  as 
heretofore,  and  act  upon  honorable  principles, 
and  see  that  nothing  mean  creaps  into  our 
transactions. 

Mr.  McCLURE.  I  am  in  favor  of  this  res- 
olution from  the  simple  fact  that  we  entered 
into  the  arrangement  in  good  faith,  having  a 
majority  of  all  the  members  elected  to  the 
Constitutional  Convention.  I  am  in  favor  of 
it,  from  the  fact  that  we  are  to  adjourn  in  a 
short  time,  and  it  may  be  possible  that  the 
members  holding  sessions  in  the  other  end  of 
the  Capitol  may  circulate  reports  that  we,  the 
majority,  had  ordered  the  Treasurer  not  to 
pay  them.  [Laughter.]  As  we  are  the  majority 
and  they  the  minority,  we  ought  to  spread 
the  fact  upon  the  record  that  we  are  in  favor 
of  paying  them.  Although  we  think  a  great 
many  of  their  members  bogus,  yet,  at  the 
same  time  by  joining  in  the  appointment  of  a 
conference  committee,  and  by  passing  the 
same  Constitution,  we  have  recognized  them, 
as  well  as  they  ns. 

Now,  I  have  ascertained  satisfactoriily,  at 
least  so  far  as  my  own  judgment  is  concerned, 
why  the  President  of  the  Convention  in  the 
other  end  of  the  Capitol  (Mr.  Sibley,)  has  so 
tenaciously  refused  to  sign  the  same  identical 
paper,  with  the  President  of  this  body,  (Mr. 
St.  a.  D.  Balcombe.)  It  will  be  remem- 
bered that  the  mother  of  the  President  of  this 
Convention  has  made  of  him  what  no  earthly 
power  could  make  of  the  presiding  officer  in 
the  other  end  of  the  Capitol — ^has  made  of  him 
a  "  Saint."  Now  it  may  be  that  the  Pres- 
ident in  the  other  end,  has  great  and  rever- 
ential awe  for  the  name  "  Saint "  and  that  he 
would  not  place  his  name  upon  the  same  pa- 
per, feeling  his  littleness  and  nothingness. 
Now  sir,  I  must  confess  that  I  admire  his 
taste;  that  it  would  not  look  well;  that  it 
would  be  undignified  and  irrevcrential  to  put 


the  name  "  Sibley  "  before  the  name  "  Saint;" 
and  to  place  it  after,  would  be  an  awful  fall 
from  "  Saint "  to  "  Sibley,"  [laughter],  and  I 
have  actually  come  to  the  conclusion,  if  I  were 
in  his  place,  I  would  do  exactly  as  he  has 
done. 

Under  all  the  circumstances,  therefore,  I 
think  it  is  right  that  we  shall  pass  a  resolu- 
tion informing  our  finends  in  the  other  end  of 
the  Capitol  that  we  are  willing  that  they  should 
have  their  pay. 

Mr.  MANTOR.  I  hope  the  resolution  will 
not  pass.  I  am  convinced  that  the  compro- 
mise committee  from  the  other  Hall,  or  some 
of  them,  at  least,  intend  to  carry  out  the  com- 
mon understanding  which  was  had  when  that 
committee  was  appointed, — that  the  certifi- 
cates from  both  wings  of  the  Capitol  should 
be  recognized.  It  is  not  ten  minutes  since 
Judge  Shebbcrnte  proclaimed  publicly  that  all 
the  members  of  this  Convention  are  of  right 
entitled  to  their  pay,  and  that  he  should  de- 
nounce any  other  course.  I  do  not  feel  that 
there  is  any  great  necessity  for  the  passage  of 
this  resolution. 

Mr.  COLBURN,  Before  I  vote,  I  desire 
to  know  the  correctness  of  certain  statements 
which  have  been  made  here,  and  elsewhere. 
It  has  been  stated  by  the  gentleman  from 
Rice  coimty  (Mr.  North,)  and  by  others, 
that  there  was  a  general  understanding  upon 
the  part  of  the  committee  of  Conference  that 
there  would  be  no  objection  to  members  of 
this  Convention  receiving  their  pay,  and  that 
their  certificates  would  be  recognized.  Now 
if  there  was  an  agreement  or  understand- 
ing, well  founded  in  that  committee,  though 
not  exactly  put  in  form,  that  the  Treas- 
urer would  recognize  the  certificates  signed 
by  our  President  and  Secretary,  then  it 
may  be  that  this  resolution  is  proper 
enough.  If  there  has  been  no  vmderstand- 
ing  of  that  kind,  nothing  to  found  this  resolu- 
tion upon,  I  say  it  should  not  be  passed. 
They  cannot,  with  any  degree  of  consistency, 
accuse  us  of  bad  faith  unless  there  has  been 
an  agreement  of  that  kind  to  fulfill.  If  they 
accuse  us  of  bad  Mth  in  this  matter,  without 
an  agreement,  they  will  also  in  other  matters. 
If  there  has  been  an  agreement,  I  would  like 
to  have  the  members  of  the  committee  tell  us 
what  it  was. 

Mr.  "VVILSON.     I  hope  no  such  resolution 


592 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Saturday,  August  29. 


will  pass.  It  is  a  fact,  well  understood  by  us 
here,  that  the  Territorial  Treasurer  has  re- 
fused to  recognize  our  certificates.  I  am 
wilHng  to  leave  it  there.  It  is  but  a  contin- 
uation of  the  consummate  meanness  which 
has  characterised  the  other  body,  ever  since 
the  organization  of  this  Convention.  I  am 
willing  to  go  before  the  people  with  the  issue 
they  present.  I  hope  the  resolution  will  be 
laid  upon  the  table,  and  that  we  shall  treat 
the  whole  thing  with  the  contempt  it  de- 
serves. 

Mr.  NORTH.  I  wish  to  understand  from 
the  committee  if  there  was  any  such  agree- 
ment? 

Mr.  GALBRAITH.  As  to  whether  this 
resolution  pass  or  not,  I  care  not.  There  is 
connected  with  this  subject,  what  I  consider 
a  matter  of  honor,  and  as  sacred  as  the  mar- 
riage vow.  It  is  true,  fully  true,  that  in  the 
discussion  of  this  subject  by  the  committee, 
with  the  intention  of  inserting  a  provision  in 
reference  to  it,  into  the  Schedule  of  this  Con- 
stitution, that  the  committee  found  such  a 
course  impracticable.  That  there  was,  in 
that  committee,  an  honorable  understanding 
that  there  should  be  no  question  raised  as  to 
the  paying  the  members,  and  all  the  expenses 
of  this  Convention,  I  assert  here.  It  is 
known  to  every  member  of  that  committee, 
and  in  my  opinion,  that  agreement  is  more 
sacred  than  if  it  had  been  in  writing.  To 
violate  it,  is  a  sacrifice  of  plighted  honor.  I 
shall  never,  so  help  me  God,  appeal  to  the 
Treasurer  of  this  Territory  to  decide  whether 
I  have  served  in  this  Convention  or  not.  My 
constituents  will  decide  that  for  me,  and  our 
constituents  are  the  proper  parties  to  appeal 
to.  They  will  see  that  a  proper  person  is 
placed  there  to  do  their  will.  I  ask  not  the 
charity  of  that  body.  If  they  choose  to  vio- 
late as  solemn  and  as  honorable  a  compact  as 
could  be  made,  let  them  do  it,  and  let  them 
shoulder  the  responsibility.  The  voice  of  the 
press  and  the  voice  of  living  men  will  give  a 
true  history  of  the  transaction  and  of  the 
facts  which  have  transpired  here.  We  are 
ready  for  the  battle.  If  the  compact  is  to  be 
broken  on  a  quibble,  let  it  be  broken,  and  wo 
Avill  go  to  the  country  on  the  issue.  Wc  are 
ready  loaded  to  the  muzzle.  I  ask  nothing 
but  what  is  fair,  and  I  know  this  Convention 
will  not.    We  have  acted  honorably.    Every 


letter  of  the  compact  has  been  fulfilled  on 
our  part,  to  the  dot  of  an  "  i,"  and  the  cross 
of  a  "t."  There  is  the  Constitution  reported 
by  the  joint  committee  of  the  two  bodies. 
There  is  the  fact  staring  the'world  in  the  face, 
that  we  are  members  of  this  Constitutional 
Convention.  I  wish  to  cast  reflections  upon 
no  individuals  of  that  body.  I  will  not  do  so. 
And  I  do  not  believe  that  one  member  of  the 
committee  upon  the  part  of  either  body  will 
ever,  in  word  or  deed,  do  any  act  which  will 
violate  the  sacred,  honorable  compact,  which 
was  made  between  them. 

Mr.  NORTH.  Mr.  President  :  It  seems 
to  me  that  this  resolution  has  been  discussed 
in  rather  a  singular  manner.  I  am  happy  to. 
hear  it,  however,  for  it  is  a  matter  that  needs 
to  be  talked  over  ;  but  I  had  not  supposed  it 
would  produce  the  discussion  which  has  been 
predicated  upon  it.  I  fuUy  agree  with  the 
gentleman  fi-om  Scott  county  as  to  the  char- 
acter of  the  conduct  of  the  seceding  members. 
But  the  object  of  the  resolution  is  not  to  cast 
censure,  or  encomiums  upon  anybody,  but 
to  put  this  Convention  right  upon  the  record, 
and  to  show  that  they  are  in  favor  of  keeping 
good  faith,  regardless  of  what  others  may  do. 
We  are  told  that  this  arrangement  about  pay 
was  fairly  understood  as]  part  of  the  agree- 
ment by  which  one  Constitution  has  been 
produced  and  signed.  I  want  simply  to 
carry  out  that  agreement,  and  then  if  the 
other  party  to  this  agreement  wish  to  break 
faith  and  act  meanly  in  the  premises,  let  them 
have  the  full  credit  of  it.  This  Convention 
stands  fair  in  all  their  proceedings,  and  that 
their  fidelity  and  ,  good  faith  in  this  matter 
may  stand  fair  upon  the  record,  I  desire  this 
resolution  to  pass. 

Mr.  WILSON.  Mr.  President:  I  think 
my  friend  from  Rice  county  does  not  look  at 
this  matter  with  as  much  discrimination  as  he 
usually  displays.  Now,  sir,  what  power  have 
wc  to  order  a  Territorial  Treasurer  to  receive 
or  not  to  receive  any  paper  whatever  ?  There 
are  the  laws  of  this  Territory,  regulating  the 
duties  of  all  Territorial  oflBcers.  By  these 
laws  the  whole  Territory  is  governed.  There 
stands  the  whole  of  this  matter. 

As  to  putting  ourselves  upon  the  record, 
we  are  upon  the  record  now,  sir.  We  have 
already  acted  in  such  a  manner  as  to  be  well 
understood. 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— SATCBOAr,  August  29. 


593 


There  is  a  law  of  the  Territorial  Legislature, 
as  I  am  informed  by  those  having  correct 
knowledge  of  the  fact,  which  makes  these 
certificates  evidence  of  debt.  The  resolution 
then,  which  has  been  adopted  in  the  other 
wing  of  the  Capitol  can  amount  to  nothing 
more  than  an  expression  of  the  wish  of  those 
insisting  upon  it ;  and  when  in  obedience  to 
that  resolution,  certain  Territorial  officers  re- 
fuse to  recognize  our  certificates,  it  shows 
only  that  those  officers  are  the  creatures  of 
that  Convention,  or  they  would  not  do  their 
bidding  in  violation  of  law.  Is  the  Territorial 
Treasurer  in  any  way  responsible  to  this 
body  ?  I  say  he  is  not.  I  do  not  wish  to 
impute  anything  wrong  to  the  Territorial 
Treasurer.  I  never  saw  the  man  ;  but  I  will 
say,  with  reference  to  this  compromise  and 
his  connection  wit^  it,  that  I  expected  punic 
faith  when  I  went  into  it.  But  for  men  to  act 
meanly  in  a  case  where  their  meanness  is 
sure  to  rebound  and  rest  upon  their  own 
heads — I  confess  I  did  not  expect  that. 

A  majority  of  the  members  sitting  in  the 
other  end,  know  that  they  are  not  the  legal 
Constitutional  Convention  of  Minnesota. 

Many  of  them  came  in  here  and  owned  it 
themselves,  that'  they  were  soma  twelve  or 
fifteen  less  in  number  than  we ;  and  they  put 
the  legality  of  their  acts  upon  the  ground,  that 
a  Constitution  formed  by  any  number  of  del- 
egates— if  not  more  than  ten  in  number — and 
ratified  by  a  majority  of  the  people,  becomes 
a  legal  Constitution.  But  the  initiative  of  the 
compromise  was  taken  by  them.  It  was 
upon  their  urgent  soUcitation  that  we  went 
into  conference  with  them.  They  urged  and 
solicited  outside  and  inside.  They  insisted 
and  plead  with  us,  for  the  love  of  the  powers 
above,  and  the  fear  of  ruin,  to  unite  with 
them  upon  one  Constitution,  that  all  might  be 
right.  TVe  acquiesed.  We  gave  them  a  com- 
mittee. That  committee  have  agreed  upon 
one  Constitution,  and  we  have  adopted  and 
signed  it.  I  km  credibly  informed  sir,  and 
who  does  not  know,  that  where  a  Constitu- 
tution  is  adopted  between  two  parties  the 
very  act  of  its  adoption  shows  the  equal  mem- 
bership of  both  parties.  And  now  for  them 
to  come  up  at  the  last  with  such  consummate 
childish  meanness,  and  talk  about  not  paying 
members  sent  here  by  the  people  of  Minne- 
sota ;  I  will  not  follow  after  them  sir.  I  shall  I 
75 


never  offer  to  the  Territorial  Treasurer  my 
certificate.  I  will  go  home  and  tell  mj-  con- 
stituents, who  sent  me  here,  of  this  contempt 
of  the  law  and  of  them ;  how  I  was  not 
recognized  as  a  member  of  this  Convention 
— not  entitled  to  pay ;  and  I  will  rest  it  there. 
I  hope  the  resolution  may  not  be  passed. 

A  point  of  order  was  here  interposed  under 
the  rule  forbidding  the  discussion  of  a  pro- 
position the  same  day  it  is  offered,  and,  on 
motion  by  Mr.  Stannaed,  the  rule  was  sus- 
pended so  as  to  admit  of  the  consideration  of 
of  the  resolution. 

•Mr.  COGGS^YELL.  Mr.  Pbesidext:  I 
am  remarkably  cool,  for  me,  at  the  present 
time ;  and  it  seems  to  me  as  though  there  was 
no  particular  necessity  for  our  getting  excited 
in  regard  to  this  matter  at  all.  For  my  part, 
I  am  opposed  to  the  passage  of  this  resolu- 
tion, first ;  for  the  reason,  that  I  do  not  think 
it  would  amount  to  anything  if  it  were  passed. 
It  is  simply  attempting  to  instruct  an  officer 
to  perform  what  the  law  requires  of  him  • 
and  such  attempts  have  been  voted  down  by 
this  Convention  heretofore.  Secondly;  as  a 
member  of  this  Convention,  I  do  not  expect 
to  derive  my  pay  from  the  Treasury  of  Min- 
nesota Territory. 

I  know  there  was  a  tacit  understanding 
with  reference  to  this  matter  of  pay  between 
the  members  of  the  Conference  committee ; 
but  I  care  nothing  about  that  understanding 
or  agreement.  The  gentleman  from  Scott 
County  (Mr.  Galbraith)  and  other  gentle- 
men complain  that  that  agreement  has  been 
violated.  Now,  Mr.  Pkesident  :  if  that  agree- 
ment has  been  violated,  it  is  just  what  we 
might  expect  from  that  quarter.  It  was  only 
what  has  been  continually  practiced  by  that 
body  ever  since  the  thirteenth  day  of  last 
July.  It  is  not  the  first  time  they  have  vio- 
lated agreements  and  openly  insulted  parties 
treating  with  them.  Sir,  you  remember,  on 
a  certain  occasion,  they  agreed  not  to  attempt 
to  organize  this  Convention  until  twelve  o'clock 
M.,  on  the  thirteenth  of  July  inst.,  and  we 
know  how  they  violated  that  agreement,  by 
coming  in  and  attempting  to  organize  nine- 
teen minutes  before  the  time.  We  know  also 
how  one  of  our  members  has  been  most  bru- 
tally assaulted  by  one  of  them.  We  know 
this  is  not  the  one-hundredth  part  of  the 
amount  of  insult  that  has  been  heaped  upon 


594 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Saturday,  August  29. 


this  Convention ;  and  it  seems  to  me  that  it 
comes  rather  late  in  the  day  for  gentlemen  to 
undertake  now  to  assert  their  manhood  and 
say  that  they  will  not  yield  themselves  to  be 
insulted  any  longer. 

Sir,  from  the  first,  I  have  had  no  confidence 
in  that  body  of  men.  I  can  have  no  confi- 
dence in  any  of  their  views — no  confidence 
in  any  of  their  stool-pigeons,  in  any  of  the 
men  under  their  control.  Sir,  I  would  scorn 
to  ask  their  Treasurer  for  my  pay — ask  such 
a  man  to  do  his  duty  !  But  if  we  are  to  de- 
rive our  pay  from  the  Territorial  Treasury — 
a  thing  which  I  deny — I  say  the  act  of  the 
Legislature  is  very  plain  and  explicit  in  re- 
gard to  what  the  duty  of  the  Treasurer  is ; 
and  any  instructions  we  might  give  him  would 
amount  to  nothing.  The  fifth  section  of  that 
act  says : 

"The  compensation  herein  provided  for  the 
members,  officers,  and  Secretaries,  shall  be  certi- 
fied by  the  presiding  officer,  and  attested  by  the 
Secretary." 

This  has  been  done,  sir.  Our  certificates 
have  been  signed  by  the  President  and  attest- 
ed by  the  Secretary,  "  as  well  as  all  claims  for 
"stationery,  printing,  and  all  other  incidental 
"expenses,  which  said  certificates,  when  so 
"  certified,  shall  be  sufficient  evidence  to  the 
"  Territorial  Treasurer  of  each  persons  claim." 

Now,  sir,  that  is  the  law.  These  certifi- 
cates having  been  signed  by  the  President  of 
this  Convention,  and  attested  by  the  Secre- 
tary here,  whenever  they  are  presented  to  the 
Territorial  Treasurer,  the  law  makes  it  his 
duty  to  recognize  and  pay  them,  and  if  he 
sees  fit  to  refuse  to  perform  the  duty  thus 
imposed  upon  him  by  law,  then  I  want  noth- 
ing better  wherewith  to  go  before  the  people 
ot  the  Territory,  to  show  him  associated  with 
those  in  the  other  end  of  the  building  in  this 
low,  mean,  contemptible  piece  of  conduct. 
Sir,  it  will  strengthen  the  Republican  ticket 
everywhere  in  this  Territory;  it  will  add 
immensely  to  the  ranks  of  the  Republican 
party.  And  then,  if,  with  all  this,  we  do  our 
<jQty — if  we  select  proper  men  and  place 
them  before  the  people  for  our  Representatives 
in  Congress,  our  rights  will  come,  at  last,  to 
be  respected,  and  we  shall  derive  our  pay  on 
these  certificates,  not  in  the  paper-rags  of  the 
Territorial  Treasury,  but  in  the  gold  and  silver 
of  the  Federal  Treasury ;    for,   in  my  judg- 


ment, the  Congress  of  the  United  States, 
knowing  these  facts,  would  not  foUow  the 
example  of  this  illustrious  Territorial  Treasu- 
rer, and  refuse  to  audit  and  pay  the  accounts 
of  members  here. 

It  is  for  these  reasons,  Mr.  Peesident,  that 
I  say,  if  these  men  want  to  repudiate  the 
claim  for  compensation  of  the  members  of 
this  Convention,  and  violate  the  tacit  under- 
standing and  agreement  made  with  our  Con- 
vention, I  am  perfectly  ready  and  perfectly 
willing,  if  they  take  the  responsibility,  to 
herald  the  fact  to  the  people,  who  are  the 
ultimate  arbiters  and  judges  of  this  matter. 

That  is  the  way  I  feel.  Hence  I  can  see 
no  necessity  of  our  passing  any  resolution  in 
the  case.  If  the  Territorial  officers  do  not 
see  fit  to  regard  the  law,  they  will  not  regard 
our  instructions. 

The  other  body  have  said  we  did  not  recog- 
nize them.  I  have  not  recognized  them.  I 
have  been  opposed  to  this  conference  from 
the  very  beginning.  As  an  individual,  I  took 
the  responsibility  of  that  course  of  action, 
and  asked  no  man  to  share  it  with  me.  I 
have  endeavored  to  take  a  straight  forward 
course  since  I  came  here.  I  have  endeavored 
to  discharge  my  duty  under  the  law.  I  stand 
here  with  a  clear  conscience,  and  a  few  dollars 
cannot  now  cause  me  to  change  my  mind. 

I  hope  every  member  of  this  Convention 
will,  at  the  present  time,  assert  so  much  of 
the  instinctive  dignity  of  men  as  to  say  noth- 
ing. If  the  other  party  want  to  act  the  dog, 
let  them  do  it,  but,  for  God's  sake,  let  us  not 
stoop  to  the  same  degrading  level  with  them. 
These  are  my  views,  and  I  make  no  bones 
about  expressing  them. 

Mr.  McCLURE.  Mr.  Pbesident  :  I  rise  to 
request  my  friend  from  Rice  county,  (Mr. 
NoBxn,)  to  withdraw  his  resolution,  and  let 
us  have  no  more  discussion  upon  it.  There 
is  no  question  about  the  law  giving  the  right 
of  members  of  both  bodies  their  pay. 

Mr.  NORTH.  I  should  be  most  happy  to 
accommodate  my  friend  from  Goodhue,  Mr_ 
Pbesident,  if  I  did  not  think  it  involved  a 
question  of  some  importance.  There  has 
been  a  compromise,  which  has  been  fairly 
entered  into,  and  this  resolution  is  simply 
saying  to  the  other  party,  that  we  propose  to 
take  no  advantage  by  departing  from  the 
strict  line  of  the  agreement  we  have  mado 


MINNESOTA  CONTENTION  DEBATES— Satcbday,  Augcst  29. 


595 


vrith  them,  notwithstanding  their  course,  as 
well  as  the  fact  that  we  are  obliged  to  regard 
a  large  number  of  them  as  bogus  members. 

I  would  respectfully  suggest  again,  Mr. 
Pbesidext,  that  nearly  all  the  speeches  made 
upon  this  resolution  have  been  as  wide  of  its 
object  as  they  could  be.  It  does  seem  to  be 
a  matter  of  some  consequence  that  we  should 
put  ourselves  right  upon  the  record,  and  show 
our  purpose  to  maintain  good  faith  in  this 
matter.  If  gentlemen  differ  with  me,  and 
are  determined  that  the  resolution  shall  not 
go  upon  the  record,  let  them  vote  it  down. 

[Question,  question.] 

It  seems  to  me,  Mr.  Pbesidext,  that  after 
listening  to  half-hour  speeches  in  opposition, 
I  might  be  heard  in  explanation.     [Go  on.] 

Mr.  PHELPS.  Mr.  President  :  I  hope  the 
gentleman  wiU  go  on  with  his  remarks. 

Mr.  NORTH.     I  do  not  wish  to  go  on. 

Mr.  COLBURN.  Mr.  Pbesidext  :  There 
was  one  remark  made  by  the  gentleman  on 
my  left,  which  I  do  not  understand.  I  under- 
stood him  to  say  there  was  no  member  of  the 
Conference  committee  from  the  other  Conven- 
tion, disposed  to  act  in  bad  faith.  If  I  under- 
stood the  remark,  I  have  this  to  say :  I  want 
gentlemen  to  remember,  that  on  yesterday 
afternoon,  a  resolution  was  introduced  by 
Gov.  GoBM AX,  as  insulting  toward  every  mem- 
ber of  this  body  as  it  well  could  be.  It  was 
simply  this:  Advising  the  Treasurer  to  ac- 
knowledge and  pay  our  certificates,  provided 
that  we  should  first  go  and  get  Mr.  Siblet  to 
sign  them.  Gentlemen  should  also  bear  in 
mind  this  fact,  that  Judge  Sherbubxe,  a  man 
whom  we  have  all  looked  upon  as  one  of  the 
most  worthy  members  of  that  body,  stood  up 
and  stated  that  he  was  in  favor  of  the  sub- 
stance of  Go BM ax's  resolution.  Yet  we  have 
been  told,  that  no  member  of  that  joint  com- 
mittee is  disposed  to  act  in  bad  faith.  I  do 
not  wish  to  occupy  time  ;  but  I  would  have 
gentlemen  consider  these  facts ;  that  men 
who  would  seem  fair  and  honorable  in  their 
personal  correspondence  with  us,  are  willing, 
on  occasion,  to  treat  us  in  the  most  insulting 
manner. 

Mr.  FOSTER.  Mr.  Pbesidext  :  I  heard 
the  remark  of  Judge  Shebbcbxe.  He  repre- 
sented himself  in  favor  of  the  substance, 
thought  the  intention  good,  but  did  not  like 
the  terms  in  which  it  was  expressed. 


Mr.  PERKINS.  Mr.  Pbesidext  :  I  heard 
the  same  remark.  The  impression  I  received 
was,  that  Judge  Shebbubxe  was  in  favor  of 
the  substance  of  that  resolution  so  far  as  it 
would  intimate,  that  we  ought  to  receive  our 
pay  as  well  as  them.  The  idea  was,  that 
they  should,  by  some  appropriate  resolution, 
intimate  to  the  oflBcers  holding  the  purse,  that 
the  certificates  of  the  members  of  this  Con- 
vention should  be  recognized. 

A  TOICE.  I  would  ask  whether  the  reso- 
lution was  passed. 

Mr.  PERKINS.  I  understand  the  resolu- 
tion did  not  pass. 

Mr.  NORTH'S  resolution  was  then  adopted 
on  a  division — aflBrmative  twenty,  negative, 
fifteen. 

Mr.  FOSTER.  Mr.  Pbesidext:  I  wish  to 
offer  the  following  preamble  and  resolution  at 
this  time: 

"Whereas,  When  this  Constitutional  Conven- 
Tention,  embracing  a  majority  of  the  duly  elected 
delegates,  agreed  to  meet  in  conference  with  the 
seceding  minority  Convention,  in  the  adoption  of 
one  Constitution,  it  was  part  of  the  terms  of  com- 
promise, fairly  understood,  that  the  Democratic 
accounting  officers  should  not  refuse,  as  had  been 
threatened,  to  acknowledge  and  pay  the  members 
and  officers  of  this  Convention  ; 

"AxD  Whereas,  It  appears,  on  the  testimony  of 
members  of  this  body,  that  the  Treasurer  of  the 
Territory,  G.  W.  Arustroxg,  refuses,  in  violation 
of  law,  to  pay  the  certified  accounts  of  the  mem- 
bers and  officers  of  this  Constitutional  Convention, 
on  the  ground  alleged  by  him  to  members  of  this 
Convention,  that  '  we  (to  quote  his  own  words)  do 
not  recognize  those  certificates;'  therefore,  in 
view  of  these  facts, 

"Esxolved,  That  the  violation  of  honor  and  faith 
on  the  part  of  the  Democratic  minority  Conven- 
tion, implied  by  this  action  of  their  creature,  the 
Territorial  Treasurer,  should  receive,  and  we 
doubt  not  will  receive,  the  condemnation  of  all 
honorable  men;  and  we  appeal  to  the  people  of 
Minnesota  to  rectify  the  wrong  of  this  action  of  a 
partizan  Territorial  officer,  the  appointee  of  a  par- 
tizan  Governor,  acting  under  the  influenc^of  a 
partizan  Convention.'" 

On  motion  of  Mr.  COGGSWELL,  the 
preamble  and  resolution  were  indefinitely 
postponed. 

FIXAL   ADJOmXTTEXT. 

Mr.  SECOMBE  moved  that  the  Convention 
adjourn,  sitie  die. 

Mr.  ALDRICH  suggested  the  propriety  of 
of  closing  the  proceedings  of  the  Convention 
with '  prayer,  and  called   upon   the   delegat« 


696 


MINNESOTA  CONVENTION  DEBATES— Satubday,  August  29. 


from  Mower  county,  (Mr.  Phelps)  to  perform 
that  service. 

The  PRESIDENT  desired  to  be  indulged 
in  a  few  remarks,  before  the  final  adjourn- 
ment, and  said — 

.Gentlemen  of  the  Convention: — I  feel 
very  much  gratified  at  the  final  result  of  our 
deliberations.  I  desire,  before  we  finally  ad- 
journ, to  congratulate  you  upon  your  success 
in  bringing  about  what  is  to  my  mind  a  very 
much  to  be  desired  result  of  our  labors  which 
are  now  brought  to  a  close.  I  claim,  and  I 
believe  it  is  generally  conceded,  that  the 
credit  which  is  due  to  this  result  which  we 
have  just  accomplished — that  of  framing  one 
Constitution,  and  one  Constitution  only — be- 
longs to  this  body ;  that  to  this  body  is  due 
the  credit  of  having  accomplished  this  much 
desired  end,  and  that  it  is  due  to  this  body 
alone.  That  from  the  first,  a  persistent  effort 
and  endeavor  has  been  made  on  the  part  of 
the  other  Convention,  not  to  have  this  Territory 
form  itself  into  a  State  and  go  into  the  Union, 
is  a  fact  that  many  have  seen  and  every  man 
in  the  State  has  felt ;  and  that  their  effort  has 
failed  is  certainly  a  source  of  congratulation. 
Certainly  this  is  something  for  us  to  rejoice 
over ;  for  the  reason  that  our  every  interest, 
pecuniary,  social  and  moral,  demand  it ;  the 
great  interest  of  the  people  demand  it ;  the 
interests  of  every  class  of  people  demand  that 
we  should  shake  off  our  Territorial  form  of 
government  at  this  time,  and  as  soon  as  pos- 
sible, become  one  of  the  States  of  the  Union. 
The  greater  number  of  individuals  composing 
the  other  part  of  the  Convention  were  desi- 
rous that  this  object  should  not  be  attained. 
That  they  desired  to  defeat  the  wish  of  the 
people  in  this  matter,  is  perfectly  evident  and 
plain  to  every  member  of  this  Convention, 
and  it  has  become  so  to  the  people  of  this  Ter- 
ritory. Had  that  Convention  persisted  in  its 
original  design  of  framing  a  Constitution,  and 
we  another,  neither  would  have  been  accepted 
by  the  people.  That  the  end  which  has  been 
finally  accomplished  has  been  accomplished 
by  the  earnest  and  unwearied  efforts  of  each 
and  all  of  the  members  of  this  Convention,  is 
also  known  to  the  people  as  well  as  to  them- 
selves. This  object  is  accomplished ;  and  I 
have  taken  this  occasion  to  congratulate  you 
upon  the  accomplishment  of  this  much  de- 
sired end.   But  I  will  not  extend  my  remarks, 


for  I  am  aware  of  the  impatience  of  members. 
I  know  that  each  and  every  one  must  be  very 
desirous  of  coming  to  a  final  adjournment  and 
returning  to  their  families. 

The  session  has  seemed  to  be  a  long  one, 
though  not,  in  fact,  very  lono;.  Certainly  it 
has  not  been  as  long  as  it  would  have  been, 
had  all  the  members  met  with  us ;  neither  has 
it  been  as  long  a  session  as  Constitutional 
Conventions  usuaUy  hold.  In  one  State  I 
remember  a  Constitutional  Convention  of  nine 
months'  duration.  In  other  States  I  could 
name,  they  have  sat  four,  five  and  six  months. 
Hence  we  might  even  congratulate  ourselves 
upon  bringing  our  labors  to  a  close  in  a  much 
shorter  time  than  Constitutional  Conventions 
usually  complete  their  work. 

1  cannot  but  return  my  warmest  personal 
thanks  to  members,  one  and  all,  for  their  con- 
tinued and  cordial  assistance  and  support  in 
the  discharge  of  the  dutias  of  this  Chair. 
When  I  first  assumed  them  I  requested  as- 
sistance in  the  performance  of  these  duties, 
and  that  request  has  been  granted  to  the  ful- 
lest extent,  and  always  in  a  manner  most 
grateful  to  my  own  feelings. 

I  am  constrained  also  to  offer  my  congrat- 
ulations upon  the  general  harmony  and  good 
feeling  which  has  been  maintained  through- 
out the  proceedings  of  this  Convention  to  an 
unusual  extent.  It  would  be  very  natural  to 
suppose  that,  under  the  peculiar  circum- 
stances in  which  we  have  been  placed — in 
the  midstof  a  most  uncertain  state  of  affairs — 
under  the  depressions  of  upcertainty  as  to 
what  would  be  the  result  of  our  session — 
taking  these  into  consideration,  it  may  well  be 
said,  that  peace  and  harmony  have  reigned  in 
this  Convention  to  an  unusual  extent. 

In  conclusion,  gentlemen  of  the  Convention, 
my  best  wishes  are  with  you  all — now  and 
forever.  May  you  all  arrive  safely  at  home, 
and  find  each  and  every  member  of  your  sev- 
eral families  alive  and  in  good  health. 

Again,  gentlemen,  I  tender  to  you  all  my 
sincere  thanks  for  your  most  considerate  re- 
gards, which  have  constantly  sustained  me  in 
the  discharge  of  the  delicate  and  responsible 
duties  of  this  Chair. 

And  then — after  prayer  by  the  Rev.  Boyd 
Phelps,  a  delgate  from  Mower  county — 

The  Convention  adjourned  sim  die. 


APPENDIX. 


OEGANIC  ACT 


OF   THE 


TERRITORY   OF  MINNESOTA. 


Sec.  1.  Beit  enacted  by  the  Senate  and 
Souse  of  Representatives  of  the  United  States 
of  America,  in  Coiigress  assembled:  That  from 
and  after  the  passage  of  this  Act,  all  that 
part  of  the  Territory  of  the  United  States 
\yhich  lies  within  the  following  limits  to  wit : 
Beginning  in  the  Mississippi  River  at  the 
point  where  the  line  of  forty-three  degrees 
and  thirty  minutes  of  north  latitude  crosses 
the  same,  thence  running  due  west  on  said 
line,  which  is  the  northern  boundary  of  the 
State  of  Iowa,  thence  southerly  along  the 
western  boundary  of  said  State,  to  the  point 
where  said  boundary  strikes  the  Missouri 
River;  thence  up  the  middle  of  the  main 
channel  of  the  Missouri  River  to  the  mouth 
of  the  White  Earth  River;  thence  up  the 
middle  of  the  main  channel  of  the  "White 
Earth  River  to  the  boundary  line  between  the 
possessions  of  the  United  States  and  Great 
Britain ;  thence  east  and  south  of  east  along 
the  boundary  line  between  the  possessions  of 
the  United  States  and  Great  Britain  to  Lake 
Superior;  thence  in  a  straight  line  to  the 
northernmost  point  of  the  State  of  "Wiscon- 
sin in  Lake  Superior ;  thence  along  the  west- 
em  boundary  line  of  said  State  of  "Wiscon- 
sin to  the  Mississippi  River ,  thence  down  the 
main  channel  of  said  river  to  the  place  of 
beginning,  be,  and  the  same  is  hereby  erected 


into  a  temporary  Government  by  the  name 
of  the  Territory  of  Minnesota ;  Provided^  that 
nothing  in  this  act  contained  shall  be  con- 
strued to  inhibit  the  Government  of  the 
United  States  from  dividing  said  Territory 
into  two  or  more  Territories,  in  such  manner 
and  such  times  as  Congress  shall  deem  con- 
venient and  proper,  or  from  attaching  any 
portion  of  said  Territory  to  any  other  State 
or  Territory  of  the  United  States. 

Sec  2.  And  be  it  further  enacted,  That 
the  executive  power  and  authority  in  and 
over  said  Territory  of  Minnesota,  shall  be 
vested  in  a  Governor,  who  shall  hold  his  office 
for  four  years,  and  until  his  successor  shall  be 
appointed  and  qualified,  unless  sooner  re- 
moved by  the  President  of  the  United  States. 
The  Governor  shall  reside  within  said.  Terri- 
tory, shall  be  Commander-in-Chief  of  the 
Militia  thereof,  shall  perform  the  duties  and 
receive  the  emolimients  of  Superintendent  of 
Indian  Affairs;  he  may  grant  pardons  for 
offences  against  the  laws  of  said  Territory, 
and  reprieves  for  offences  committed  against 
the  laws  of  the  United  States  until  the  decis- 
ion of  the  President  of  the  United  States  can 
be  made  known  thereon ;  he  shall  commission 
all  officers  who  shall  be  appointed  to  office 
under  the  laws  of  said  Territory,  and  shall 
take  care  that  the  laws  be  faithfully  executed. 


600 


APPENDIX. 


Sec.  3.  And  le  it  further  enacted,  That 
there  shall  be  a  Secretary  of  said  Teiyitory, 
who  shall  reside  therein,  and  hold  his  oflQce 
for  four  years,  unless  sooner  removed  by  the 
President  of  the  United  States;  he  shall 
record  and  preserve  all  the  laws  and  proceed- 
ings of  the  Legislative  Assembly  hereinafter 
constituted,  and  all  the  acts  and  proceedings 
of  the  Governor  in  his  Executive  Department ; 
he  shall  transmit  one  copy  of  the  laws  and 
one  copy  of  the  Executive  proceedings,  on  or 
before  the  first  day  of  December  in  each 
year  to  the  President  of  the  United  States, 
and  at  the  same  time  two  copies  of  the  laws 
to  the  Speaker  of  the  House  of  Representa- 
tives, and  the  President  of  the  Senate,  for 
the  use  of  Congress.  And  in  case  of  the 
death,  removal,  resignation,  or  necessary  ab- 
sence of  the  Governor  from  the  Territory,  the 
Secretary  shall  be,  and  he  is  hereby,  author- 
ized and  required  to  execute  and  perform  all 
th  duties  of  the  Governor  during  such  va- 
cancy or  necessary  absence,  or  until  another 
Governor  shall  be  duly  appointed  to  fill  such 
vacancy. 

Sec.  4.  And  ie  it  farther  enacted,  That 
the  legislative  power  and  authority  of  said 
Territory  shall  be  vested  in  the  Governor  and 
a  Legislative  Assembly.  The  Legislative  As 
sembly  shall  consist  of  a  Council  and  House 
of  Representatives.  The  Council  shall  con- 
sist of  nine  members,  having  the  qualifications 
of  voters  as  hereinafter  prescribed,  whose 
term  of  service  shall  continue  two  years. 
The  House  of  Representatives  shall,  at  its  first 
session,  consist  of  eighteen  members,  posses- 
sing the  same  qualifications  as  prescribed  for 
members  of  the  Council,  and  whose  term  of 
service  shall  continue  for  one  year.  The 
number  of  Councillors  and  Representatives 
may  be  increased  by  the  Legislative  Assembly 
from  time  to  time,  in  proportion  to  the  in- 
crease of  population :  Provided,  That  the 
whole  number  shall  never  exceed  fifteen 
Councillors  and  thirty-nine  Representatives. 
An  apportionment  shall  be  made,  as  nearly 
equal  as  practicable,  among  the  several  coun- 
ties or  districts,  for  the  election  of  the  Coun- 
cil and  Representatives,  giving  each  section  of 
the  Territory  representation  in  the  ratio  of 
its  population,  Indians  excepted,  as  nearly  as 
may  be.  And  the  members  of  the  Council 
IW<J  of  the  Honse  of  Representatives  shall 


reside  in  and  be  inhabitants  of  the  district  for 
which  they  maj  be  elected  respectively. 
Previous  to  the  first  election  the  Governor 
shall  cause  a  census  or  enumeration  of  the 
inhabitants  of  the  seveml  counties  and  dis- 
tricts of  the  Territory  to  be  taken,  and  the 
first  election  shall  be  held  at  such  time  and 
places,  and  be  conducted  in  such  manner,  as 
the  Governor  shall  appoint  and  direct;  and 
he  shall,  at  the  same  time,  declare  the  num- 
ber of  members  of  the  Council  and  House  of 
Representatives  to  which  each  of  the  counties 
or  districts  shall  be  entitled  under  this  Act. 
The  number  of  persons  authorized  to  be 
elected  having  the  highest  number  of  votes 
in  each  of  said  Council  Districts  for  members 
of  the  Council,  shall  be  declared  by  the  Gov- 
ernor to  be  duly  elected  to  the  Council ;  and 
the  person  or  persons  authorized  to  be  elected, 
having  the  greatest  number  of  votes  for  the 
House  of  Representatives,  equal  to  the  num- 
ber to  which  each  county  or  district  shall  be 
entitled,  shall  also  be  declared  by  the  Gover- 
nor to  be  duly  elected  members  of  the  House 
of  Representatives  :  Provided,  that  in  case  of 
a  tie  between  two  or  more  persons  voted  for, 
the  Governor  shall  order  a  new  election  to 
supply  the  vacancy  made  by  such  tie.  And 
the  persons  elected  to  the  Legislative  Assem- 
bly shall  meet  at  such  place  on  such  day  as 
the  Governor  shall  appoint;  but  thereafter, 
the  time,  place,  and  manner  of  holding  and 
conducting  all  elections  by  the  people,  and 
the  apportioning  of  the  representation  in  the 
several  counties  or  districts  to  the  Council 
and  House  of  Representatives  according  to 
the  population,  shall  be  prescribed  by  law,  as 
well  as  the  day  of  the  commencement  of  the 
regular  session  of  the  Legislative  Assembly; 
Provided,  That  no  one  session  shall  exceed 
the  term  of  sixty  days. 

Sec.  5.  And  be  it  further  enacted,  That 
every  free  white  male  inhabitant  above  the 
age  of  twenty-one  years,  who  shall  have  been 
a  resident  of  said  Territory  at  the  time  of  the 
passage  of  this  Act,  shall  be  entitled  to  vote 
at  the  first  election,  and  shall  be  eligible  to 
any  office  within  the  said  Territory ;  but  the 
qualifications  of  voters,  and  of  holding  office, 
at  all  subsequent  elections,  shall  be  such  as 
shall  be  prescribed  by  the  Legislative  Assem- 
bly: Provided,  That  tlie  rights  of  suffrage, 
and  of  holding  oflQce,  shall  be  exercised  only 


APPENDIX. 


601 


by  citizens  of  the  United  States,  and  those 
who  shall  have  declared,  on  oath,  their  inten- 
tion to  become  such,  and  shall  have  taken  an 
oath  to  support  the  Constitution  of  the  United 
States,  and  the  provisions  of  this  act. 

Sec.  6.  And  he  it  further  enacted,  That 
the  Legislative  power  of  the  Territory  shall 
extend  to  all  rightful  subjects  of  legislation, 
consistent  with  the  Constitution  of  the  United 
States  and  the  provisions  of  this  Act ;  but 
no  law  shall  be  passed  interfering  with  the 
primary  disposal  of  the  soil ;  no  tax  shall  be 
imposed  upon  the  property  of  the  United 
States  ;  nor  shall  the  lands  or  other  property 
of  non-residents  be  taxed  higher  than  the 
land  or  other  property  of  residents.  All  the 
laws  passed  by  the  Legislative  Assembly  and 
Governor,  shall  be  submitted  to  the  Congress 
of  the  United  States,  and  if  disapproved,  shall 
be  null  and  of  no  eflfect. 

Sec.  7.  And  de  it  further  enacted,  That 
all  township,  district  and  county  officers,  not 
herein  otherwise  provided  for,  shall  be  ap- 
pointed or  elected,  as  the  case  may  be,  in 
such  manner  as  shall  be  provided  by  the. 
Governor  and  Legislative  Assembly  of  the 
Territory  of  Minnesota.  The  Governor  shall 
nominate,  and,  by  and  with  the  advice  and 
consent  of  the  Legislative  Council,  appoint 
officers  not  herein  otherwise  provided  for; 
and  in  the  first  instance  the  Governor  alone 
may  appoint  all  said  officers,  who  shall  hold 
their  offices  until  the  end  of  the  next  session 
of  the  Legislative  Assembly. 

Sec.  8.  And  he  it  further  enacted,  That 
no  member  of  the  Legislative  Assembly  shall 
hold  or  be  appointed  to  any  office  which  shall 
have  been  created,  or  the  salary  or  emolu- 
ments of  which  shall  have  been  increased 
while'he  was  a  member,  during  the  term  for 
which  he  was  elected,  and  for  one  year  after 
the  expiration  of  such  term ;  and  no  person 
holding  a  commission  or  appointment  under 
the  United  States,  except  Postmaster,  shall 
be  a  member  of  the  Legislative  Assembly,  or 
shall  hold  any  office  under  the  Government  of 
said  Territory. 

Sec.  9.  And  he  it  further  enacted,  That 
the  Judicial  power  of  said  Territory  shall  be 
vested  in  a  Supreme  Court,  District  Courts, 
Probate  Courts,  and  in  Justices  of  the  Peace. 
The  Supreme  Court  shall  consist  of  a  Chief 
Justice  and  two  Associate  Justices,  any  two 
76 


of  whom  shall  constitute  a  quorum,  and  who 
shall  hold  a  term  at  the  seat  of  Government 
of  said  Territory  annually,  and  they  shall 
hold  their  offices  during  the  period  of  four 
years.  The  said  Territory  shall  be  divided 
into  three  Judicial  Districts,  and  a  District 
Court  shall  be  held  in  each  of  said  Districts 
by  one  of  the  Justices  of  the  Supreme  Court 
at  such  times  and  places  as  may  be  prescribed 
by  law ;  and  the  said  Judges  shall,  after  their 
appointment,  respectively  reside  in  the  Dis- 
tricts which  shall  be  assigned  them.  The 
jurisdiction  of  the  several  Courts  herein  pro- 
vided for,  both  appellate  and  criminal,  and 
and  that  of  the  Probate  Courts,  and  of  Jus- 
tices of  the  Peace,  shall  be  as  Umited  by  law : 
Provided,  that  the  Justices  of  the  Peace  shall 
not  have  jurisdiction  of  any  matter  in  contro- 
versy when  the  title  or  boundaries  of  land 
may  be  in  dispute,  or  where  the  debt  or  sum 
claimed  shall  exceed  one  hundred  dollars ; 
and  the  said  Supreme  and  District  Courts 
respectively,  shall  possess  chancery  as  well 
as  common  law  jurisdiction.  Each  District 
Court,  or  the  Judge  thereof,  shall  appoint  its 
Clerk,  who  shall  also  be  the  register  in  chan- 
cery, and  shall  keep  his  office  at  the  place 
where  the  Court  may  be  held.  Writs  of 
error,  bills  of  exception  and  appeals,  shall  be 
allowed  in  all  cases  from  the  final  decisions 
of  said  District  Courts  to  the  Supreme  Court 
under  such  regulations  as  may  be  prescribed 
by  law,  but  in  no  case  removed  to  the  Su- 
preme Court,  shall  trial  by  Jury  be  allowed 
in  said  Court.  The  Supreme  Court,  or  the 
Justices  thereof,  shall  appoint  its  own  Clerk, 
and  every  Clerk  shall  hold  his  office  at  the 
pleasure  of  the  Court  for  which  he  shall  have 
been  appointad.  Writs  of  error,  and  appeals 
from  the  final  decisions  of  said  Supreme 
Court  shall  be  allowed,  and  may  be  taken  to 
the  Supreme  Court  of  the  United  States,  in 
the  same  manner  and  under  the  same  regula- 
tions as  from  the  Circuit  Courts  of  the  United 
States,  where  the  Rvalue  of  the  property,  or 
the  amount  in  controversy,  to  be  ascei-tained 
by  the  oath  or  affirmation  of  either  party,  or 
other  competent  witness,  shall  exceed  one 
thousand  dollars ;  and  each  of  the  said  Dis- 
trict Courts  shall  have  and  exercise  the  same 
jurisdiction,  in  all  cases  arising  under  the 
Constitution  and  laws  of  the  United  States, 
as  is  vested  in  the  Circuit  and  District  Courts 


602 


APPENDIX. 


of  the  United  States ;  and  the  first  six  days 
of  every  term  of  said  Courts,  or  so  much 
thereof  as  shall  be  necessary,  shall  be  appro- 
priated to  the  trial  of  causes  arising  under 
the  said  Constitution  and  laws ;  and  writs  of 
error  and  appeal  in  all  such  cases  shall  be 
made  to  the  Supreme  Court  of  said  Territory, 
the  same  as  in  other  cases.  The  said  Clerk 
shall  receive,  in  all  such  cases,  the  same  fees 
which  the  Clerks  of  the  District  Courts  of 
the  late  Wisconsin  Territory  received  for 
similar  services. 

Sec.  10.  A7id  le  it  further  enacted,  That 
there  shall  be  appointed  an  Attorney  for  said 
Territory,  who  shall  continue  in  office  for  four 
years,  unless  sooner  removed  by  the  Presi- 
dent, and  who  shall  receive  the  same  fees  and 
salary  as  the '  Attorney  of  the  United  States 
for  the  late  Territory  of  Wisconsin  received. 
There  shall  also  be  a  Marshal  for  the  Terri- 
tory appointed,  who  shall  hold  his  office  for 
four  years,  unless  sooner  removed  by  the 
President,  and  who  shall  execute  all  processes 
issuing  from  the  said  Courts,  when  exercising 
their  jurisdiction  as  Circuit  and  District 
Courts  of  the  United  States ;  he  shall  per- 
form the  duties,  be  subject  to  the  same  regu- 
lations and  penalties,  and  be  entitled  to  the 
same  fees,  as  the  Marshal  of  the  District 
Court  of  the  United  States,  for  the  late  Ter- 
ritory of  Wisconsin, ;  and  shall  in  addition  be 
paid  two  hundred  dollars  annually  as  a  com- 
pensation for  extra  services. 

Sec.  11.  And  ie  it  further  enacted,  That, 
the  Governor,  Secretary,  Chief  Justice,  and 
Associate  Justices,  Attorney  and  Marshal, 
shall  be  nominated,  and,  by  and  with  the  ad- 
vice and  consent  of  the  Senate,  appointed  by 
the  President  of  the  United  States.  The 
Governor  and  Secretary  to  be  appointed  as 
aforesaid  shall,  before  they  act  as  such,  res- 
pectfully take  an  oath  or  affirmation,  before 
the  District  Judge,  or  some  Justice  of  the 
Peace,  in  the  limits  of  said  Territory,  duly 
authorized  to  administer  oaths  and  affirma- 
tions by  the  laws  now  in  force  therein,  or  be- 
fore the  Chief  Justice  or  some  Associate  Jus- 
tice of  the  Supreme  Court  of  the  United  States, 
to  support  the  Constitution  of  the  United 
States,  and  faithfully  to  discharge  the  duties  of 
their  respective  offices ;  which  said  oaths,  when 
so  taken  shall  be  certified  by  the  person  by 
whom  the  same  shall  have  been  taken,  and 


such  certificates  shall  be  received  and  recorded 
by  the  said  Secretary  among  the  executive 
proceedings ;  and  the  Chief  Justice  and  Asso- 
ciate Justices,  and  all  other  civil  officers  in  said 
Territory,  before  they  act  as  such,  shall  take  a 
like  oath  or  affimation  before  the  said  Gover- 
nor or  Secretary,  or  some  Judge,  or  Justice  of 
the  Peace  of  the  Territory,  who  may  be  duly 
commissioned  and  qualified,  which  said  oath 
or  affirmation  shall  be  certified  and  transmit- 
ted by  the  person  taking  the  same,  to  the  Sec- 
retary, to  be  by  him  recorded  as  aforesaid ; 
and  afterwards  the  like  oath  or  affirmation 
shall  be  taken,  certified,  and  recorded  in  such 
manner  and  form  as  may  be  prescribed  by 
law.  The  Governor  shall  receive  an  annual 
salary  of  fifteen  hundred  dollars  as  Governor, 
and  one  thousand  dollars  as  Superintendent 
of  Indian  Affairs.  The  Chief  Justice  and 
Associate  Justices  shall  each  receive  an  an- 
nual salary  of  eighteen  hundred  dollars.  The 
Secretary  shall  receive  an  annual  salary  of 
eighteen  hundred  dollars.  The  said  salaries 
shall  be  paid  quarter-yearly,  at  the  Treasury 
of  the  United  States.  The  members  of  the 
legislative  assembly  shall  be  entitled  to  receive 
three  dollars  each  per  day  during  their  attend- 
ance at  the  sessions  thereof,  and  three  dollars 
each  for  every  twenty  miles  travel  in  going  to 
and  returning  from  the  said  sessions,  estima- 
ted according  to  the  nearest  usually  traveled 
route.  There  shall  be  appropriated,  annually, 
the  sum  of  one  thousand  dollars,  to  be  ex- 
pended by  the  Governor  to  defi'ay  the  con- 
tingent expenses  of  the  Territory ;  and  there 
shall  also  be  appropriated,  annually,  a  suffi- 
cient sum,  to  be  expended  by  the  Secretary 
of  the  Territory,  and,  upon  an  estimate  to  be 
made  by  the  Secretary  of  the  Treasury  of 
the  United  States,  to  defray  the  expenses  of 
the  legislative  assembly,  the  printing  of  the 
laws,  and  other  incidental  expenses ;  and  the 
Secretary  of  the  Territory  shall  annually  ac- 
count to  the  Secretary  of  the  Treasury  of  the 
United  States  for  the  manner  in  which  the 
aforesaid  sum  shall  have  been  expended. 

Sec.  12.  And  be  it  further  enacted,  That 
the  inhabitants  of  the  said  Territory  shall  be 
entitled  to  all  the  rights,  privileges  and  im- 
munities heretofore  granted  and  secured  to 
the  Territory  of  Wisconsin  and  to  its  inhabi- 
tants ;  and  the  laws  in  force  in  the  Territory 
of  Wisconsion  at  the  date  of  the  admission  of 


APPENDIX. 


603 


the  State  of  "Wisconsin,  shall  continue  to  be 
valid  and  operative  therein,  so  far  as  the  same 
be  not  incompatible  with  the  provisions  of 
this  Act,  subject,  nevertheless,  to  be  altered, 
modified,  or  repealed,  by  the  Governor  and 
legislative  assembly  of  the  Territory  of  Min- 
nesota ;  and  the  laws  of  the  United  States 
are  hereby  extended  over  and  declared  to  be 
in  force  in  said  Territorj',  so  far  as  the  same, 
or  any  provision  thereof,  may  be  applicable. 

Sec.  13.  And  be  it  further  enacted,  That 
the  legislative  assembly  of  the  Territory  of 
Minnesota  shall  hold  its  first  session  at  St. 
Paul ;  and  at  said  first  session  the  Governor 
and  legislative  assembly  shall  locate  and  es- 
tabUsh  a  temporary  seat  of  government  for 
said  Territory,  at  such  place  as  they  may 
deem  eligible ;  and  shall,  at  such  time  as  they 
shall  see  proper,  prescribe  by  law  the  manner 
of  locating  the  permanent  seat  of  governmeijt 
of  said  Territory  by  a  vote  of  the  people. — 
And  the  sum  of  twenty  thousand  dollars,  out 
of  any  money  in  the  Treasury  not  otherwise 
appropriated,  is  hereby  appropriated  and 
granted  to  said  Territory  of  Minnesota,  to  be 
applied,  by  the  Governor  and  legislative  as- 
sembly, to  the  erection  of  suitable  public 
buildings  at  the  seat  of  government. 

Sec.  14.  And  he  it  further  enacted,  That 
a  Delegate  to  the  House  of  Representatives 
of  the  United  States,  to  serve  for  the  term  of 
two  years,  may  be  elected  by  the  voters  qual- 
ified to  elect  members  of  the  legislative  as- 
sembly, who  shall  be  entitled  to  the  same 
rights  and  privileges  as  are  exercised  and  en- 
joyed by  the  Delegates  from  the  several  other 
Territories  of  the  United  States  to  the  said 
House  of  Representatives.  The  first  election 
shall  be  held  at  such  times  and  places,  and 
be  conducted  in  such  manner,  as  the  Gover- 
nor shall  appoint  and  direct ;  and  at  all  sub- 
sequent elections,  the  times,  places,  and  man- 
ner of  holding  the  elections  shaU  be  prescrib- 
ed by  law.  The  person  having  the  greatest 
number  of  votes  shall  be  declared  by  the 
Governor  to  be  duly  elected,  and  a  certificate 
thereof  shall  be  given  accordingly. 

Sec.  15.  And  he  it  further  enacted,  That 
all  suits,  process,  and  proceedings,  civil  and 
criminal,  at  law  and  in  chancery,  and  all  in- 
dictments and  informations,  which  shall  be 
pending  and  undetermined  in  the  courts  of 
the  Territory  of  "Wisconsin,  within  the  limits 


of  said  Territory  of  Minnesota,  when  this  Act 
shall  take  effect,  shall  be  transferred  to  be 
heard,  tried,  prosecuted  and  determined  in 
the  district  courts  hereby  established,  which 
may  include  the  counties  or  districts  where 
any  such  proceedings  may  be  pending.  All 
bonds,  recognizances,  and  obligations  of  every 
kind  whatsoever,  valid  under  the  existing  laws 
within  the  limits  of  said  Territory,  shall  be 
valid  under  this  act ;  and  all  crimes  and  mis- 
demeanors against  the  laws  in  force  within 
said  limits  may  be  prosecuted,  tried  and  pun- 
ished in  the  courts  established  by  this  act ; 
and  all  penalties,  forfeitures,  actions,  and 
causes  of  action,  may  be  recovered  under 
this  act,  the  same  as  they  would  have  been 
imder  the  laws  in  force  within  the  limits  com- 
posing said  Territory  at  the  time  this  act  shall 
go  into  operation. 

Sec.  16.  And  he  it  further  enacted.  That 
all  justices  of  the  peace,  constables,  sherifis, 
and  all  other  judicial  and  ministerial  ofBcers, 
who  shall  be  in  office  within  the  limits  of  said 
Territory  when  this  act  shall  take  efiect,  shall 
be,  and  they  are  hereby,  authorized  and  re- 
quired to  continue  to  exercise  and  perform 
the  duties  of  their  respective  offices  as  offi- 
cers of  the  Territory  of  Minnesota,  tempora- 
rily, and  until  they,  or  others,  shall  be  duly 
appointed  and  qualified  to  fill  their  places  in 
the  manner  herein  directed,  or  until  their  offi- 
ces shall  be  abolished. 

Sec.  17.  And  he  it  further  enacted.  That 
the  sum  of  five  thousand  dollars  be,  and  the 
same  is  hereby,  appropriated,  out  of  any 
moneys  in  the  Treasury  not  otherwise  appro- 
priated, to  be  expended  by  and  under  the  di- 
rection of  the  said  Governor  of  the  Territory 
of  Minnesota,  in  the  pvu"chase  of  a  library,  to 
be  kept  at  the  seat  of  government,  for  the 
use  of  the  Governor,  Legislative  Assembly, 
Judges  of  the  Supreme  Court,  Secretary, 
Marshal,  and  Attorney  of  said  Territory,  and 
such  other  persons,  and  imder  such  regulations 
as  shall  be  prescribed  by  law. 

Sec.  18.  And  he  it  further  enacted,  That 
when  the  lands  in  the  said  Territory  shall  be 
surveyed  imder  the  direction  of  the  govern- 
ment of  the  United  States,  preparatory  tc 
bringing  the  same  into  market,  sections  num- 
bered sixteen  and  thirty-six  in  each  township, 
in  said  Territory  shall  be,  and  the  same  are 
hereby,  reserve^  for  the  purpose  of  being  ap- 


604 


APPENDIX. 


plied  to  schools  in  said  Territory,  and  the 
States  and  Territories  hereafter  to  be  erected 
out  of  the  same. 

Sec.  9.  And  he  it  further  e7iacted,  That 
temporarily,  and  until  otherwise  provided  by 
law,  the  Governor  of  said  Territory  may  de- 
fine the  Judicial  Districts  of  said  Territory, 
and  assign  the  Judges  who  may  be  appointed 
for  said  Territory  to  the  several  Districts, 
and  also  appoint  the  time  and  places  for  hold- 
ing Courts  in  the  several  counties  or  subdi- 
visions in  each  of  said  Judicial  Districts,  by 
proclamation  to  be  issued  by  him ;  but  the 
legislative  assembly,  at  their  first  or  any  sub- 
sequent session,  may  organize,  alter,  or  mod- 
ify such  Judicial  Districts,  and  assign  the 
Judges,  and  alter  the  times  and  places  of  hold- 
ing the  Courts  as  to  them  shall  seem  proper 
and  convenient. 

Sec.  20,  And  de  it  furtJier  enacted,  That 
every  bill  which  shall  or  may  pass  the  Coun- 
cil and  House  of  Representatives  shall,  before 
it  becomes  a  law,  be  presented  to  the  Gover- 
nor of  the  Territory ;  if  he  approve,  he  shall 


sign  it,  but  if  not,  he  shall  return  it,  with  hia 
objections  to  the  House  in  which  it  originated ; 
which  shall  cause  the  objections  to  be  entered 
at  large  upon  the  Journal,  and  •proceed  to  re- 
consider it.  If,  after  such  reconsideration, 
two-thirds  of  that  House  shall  agree  to  pass 
the  bill,  it  shall  be  sent,  together  with  the 
objections,  to  the  other  House,  by  which  it 
shall  also  be  reconsidered,  and  if  approved  by 
two-thirds  of  that  House,  it  shall  become  a 
law ;  but  in  all  cases  the  votes  of  both  Houses 
shall  be  detertermined  by  yeas  and  nays,  and 
the  names  of  the  persons  voting  for  and 
against  the  bill  shall  be  entered  on  the  Journal 
of  each  House  respectively.  If  any  bill  shall 
not  be  returned  by  the  Governor,  within  three 
days,  (Sundays  excepted,)  after  it  shall  have 
been  presented  to  him,  the  same  shall  be  a 
law,  in  like  manner  as  if  he  had  signed  it, 
unless  the  legislative  assembly,  by  adjourn- 
ment, prevent  it ;  in  which  case  it  shall  not 
become  a  law. 

Appeoved  March  3, 1849. 


COIiSTITUTION 


OF  THE 


ST^TE    OF    MIlSJ"lsrESOTA.. 


PREAilBLE ; 

We,  the  people  of  the  State  of  Minnesota, 
grateful  to  God  for  our  civH  and  religious 
liberty,  and  desiring  to  perpetuate  its  bless- 
ings, and  secure  the  same  to  ourselves  and 
our  posterity,  do  ordain  and  establish  this 
Constitution : 

ARTICLE  I. 
BiU  of  PdgUs. 

Section  1.  Government  is  instituted  for 
the  security,  benefit  and  protection  of  the 
people,  in  whom  all  political  power  is  inherent, 
together  with  the  right  to  alter,  modify  or 
reform  such  government,  whenever  the  pubHc 
good  may  require  it. 

Sec.  2.  No  member  of  this  State  shall  be 
disfiranchised,  or  deprived  of  any  of  the  rights 
or  privileges  secured  to  any  citizen  thereof, 
unless  by  the  law  of  the  land,  or  the  judgment 
of  his  peers.  There  shall  be  neither  slavery 
nor  involuntary  servitude  in  the  State  other- 
wise than  in  the  punishment  of  crime  whereof 
the  party  shall  have  been  duly  convicted. 

Sec.  3.  The  Uberty  of  the  press  shall  for- 
ever remain  inviolate,  and  all  persons  may 
freely  speak,  write  and  publish  their  senti- 
ments on  all  subjects,  being  responsible  for 
the  abuse  of  such  right 

Sec.  4.  The  right  of  trial  by  jury  shall 
remain  inviolate,  and  shall  extend  to  all  cases 


at  law  without  regard  to  the  amount  in  con- 
troversy, but  a  jury  trial  may  be  waived  by 
the  parties  in  aU  cases,  in  the  manner  pre- 
scribed by  law. 

Sec.  5.  Excessive  bail  shall  not  be  requir- 
ed, nor  shall  excessive  fines  be  imposed,  nor 
shall  cruel  or  mnusual  punishments  be  inflict- 
ed. 

Sec.  6.  In  all  criminal  prosecutions  the 
accused  shall  enjoy  the  right  to  a  speedy  and 
pubhc  trial,  by  an  impartial  jury  of  the  county 
or  district  wherein  the  crime  shall  have  been 
committed,  which  county  or  district  shall 
have  been  previously  ascertained  by  law,  and 
to  be  informed  of  the  nature  and  cause  of  the 
accusation,  to  be  confronted  with  the  witnesses 
against  him,  to  have  compulsory  process  for 
obtaining  witnesses  in  his  favor,  and  to  have 
the  assistance  of  counsel  in  his  defense. 

Sec.  7.  No  person  shall  be  held  to  answer 
for  a  criminal  oflfence  unless  on  the  present- 
ment or  indictment  of  a  Grand  Jury,  except 
in  cases  of  impeachment  or  in  cases  cognizable 
by  Justices  of  the  Peace,  or  arising  in  the 
Army  or  Navy,  or  in  the  militia  when  in  actual 
service  in  time  of  war  or  public  danger,  and 
no  person  for  the  same  offence  shall  be  put 
twice  in  jeopardy  of  punishment,  nor  shall  be 
compelled  in  any  criminal  case  to  be  mtness 
against  himself,  nor  be  deprived  of  life,  liberty. 


605 


APPENDIX. 


or  property  without  due  process  of  law.  All 
persons  shall  before  conviction  be  bailable  by 
sufficient  sureties,  except  for  capital  offences, 
when  the  proof  is  evident  or  the  presumption 
great ;  and  the  privilege  of  the  writ  of  habeas 
corpus  shall  not  be  suspended,  unless,  when 
in  case  of  rebellion  or  invasion,  the  public 
safety  may  require. 

Sec.  8.  Every  person  is  entitled  to  a  cer- 
tain remedy  in  the  laws  for  all  injuries  or 
wrongs  which  he  may  receive  in  his  person, 
property  or  character;  he  ought  to  obtain 
j  ustice  freely  and  without  purchase ;  complete- 
ly, and  without  denial ;  promptly  and  without 
delay,  conformably  to  the  laws. 

Sec.  9.  Treason  against  the  State  shall 
consist  only  in  levying  war  against  the  same, 
or  in  adhering  to  its  enemies,  giving  them  aid 
and  comfort.  No  person  shall  be  convicted 
of  treason  unless  on  the  testimony  of  two 
witnesses  to  the  same  overt  act,  or  on  confes- 
sion in  open  court. 

Sec.  10.  The  right  of  the  people  to  be 
secure  in  their  persons,  houses,  papers  and 
effects,  against  unreasonable  searches  and 
seizures  shall  not  be  violated,  and  no  warrant 
shall  issue  but  upon  probable  cause,  Support- 
ed by  oath  or  affirmation,  and  particularly 
describing  the  place  to  be  searched,  and  the 
person  or  things  to  be  seized. 

Sec.  11.  No  bill  of  attainder,  ex  post  facto 
law,  nor  any  law  impairing  the  obligation  of 
contracts  shall  ever  be] passed,  and  no  con- 
viction shall  work  corruption  of  blood  or 
forfeiture  of  estate. 

Sec.  12.  No  person  shall  be  imprisoned 
for  debt  in  this  State,  but  this  shall  not  pre- 
vent the  Legislature  from  providing  for  im- 
prisonment or  holding  to  bail  persons  charged 
with  fraud  in  contracting  said  debt.  A  rea- 
sonable amount  of  property  shall  be  exempt 
from  seizure  or  sale,  for  the  payment  of  any 
debt  or  liability,  the  amount  of  such  exemp- 
tion shall  be  determined  by  law. 

Sec.  13.  Private  property  shall  not  be 
taken  for  public  use  without  just  compensa- 
tion therefor,  first  paid  or  secured. 

Sec  14.  The  military  shall  be  subordinate 
to  the  civil  power,  and  no  standing  army  shall 
be  kept  up  in  this  State  in  time  of  peace. 

Sec.  15.  All  lands  within  this  State  are 
declared  to  be  allodial,  and  feuded  tenures  of 
every  description,  with  all  their  incidents,  are 


prohibited.  Leases  and  grants  of  agricultu- 
ral land  for  a  longer  period  than  twenty-one 
years,  hereafter  made,  in  which  shall  be  re- 
served any  rent  or  service  of  any  kind,  shall 
be  void. 

Sec  16.  The  enumeration  of  rights  in 
this  Constitution  shall  not  be  construed  to 
deny  or  impair  others  retained  by  and  inher- 
ent in  the  people.  The  right  of  every  man 
to  worship  God  according  to  the  dictates  of 
his  own  conscience  shall  never  be  infringed ; 
nor  shall  any  man  be  compelled  to  attend, 
erect,  or  support  any  place  of  worship,  or  to 
maintain  any  religious  or  ecclesiastical  minis- 
try against  his  consent ;  nor  shall  any  control 
of,  or  interference  with  the  rights  of  consci- 
ence be  permitted,  or  any  preference  be  given 
by  law  to  any  religious  establishment  or  mode 
of  worship;  but  the  liberty  of  conscience 
hereby  secured,  shall  not  be  so  construed  as 
as  to  excuse  acts  of  licentiousness  or  justify 
practices  inconsistent  with  the  peace  or  safety 
of  the  State ;  nor  shall  any  money  be  drawn 
from  the  treasury  for  the  benefit  of  any  re- 
ligious societies,  or  religious  or  theological 
seminaries. 

Sec  17.  No  religious  test  or  amount  of 
property  shall  ever  be  required  as  a  qualifica- 
tion for  any  office  of  public  trust  under  the 
State.  No  religious  test  or  amount  of  pro- 
perty shall  ever  be  required  as  a  qualification 
of  any  voter  at  any  election  in  this  State ; 
nor  shall  any  person  be  rendered  incompe- 
tent to  give  evidence  in  any  court  of  law  or 
equity  in  consequence  of  his  opinion  upon  the 
subject  of  religion. 

ARTICLE  II. 
On  Name  and  Boundaries. 
Section  1.  This  State  shall  be  called  and 
known  by  the  name  of  the  State  of  Minneso- 
ta, and  shall  consist  of  and  have  jurisdiction 
over  the  Territory  embraced  in  the  following 
boundaries,  to  wit :  Beginning  at  the  point 
in  the  center  of  the  main  channel  of  the  Red 
River  of  the  North,  where  the  boundary  line 
between  the  United  States  and  the  British 
Possessions  crosses  the  same ;  thence  up  the 
main  channel  of  said  river  to  that  of  the 
Bois  des  Sioux  river;  thence  up  the  main 
channel  of  said  river  to  Lake  Traverse ;  thence 
up  the  center  of  said  Lake  to  the  southern  ex- 
tremity thereof;  thence  in  a  direct  line  to 
head  of  Big  Stone  Lake ;  thence  through  its 


APPENDIX. 


607 


center  to  its  outlet ;  thence  by  a  due  south 
line  to  the  north  line  of  the  State  of  Iowa ; 
thence  east  along  the  northern  boundary  of 
said  State  to  the  main  channel  of  the  Missis- 
sippi river;  thence  up  the  main  channel  of  said 
river,  and  following  the  boundary  line  of  the 
State  of  "Wisconsin  until  the  same  intersects 
the  St.  Louis  river ;  thence  down  the  said 
river  to  and  through  Lake  Superior,  on  the 
boundary  line  of  "Wisconsin  and  Michigan, 
until  it  intersects  the  dividing  line  between 
the  United  States  and  British  Possessions; 
thence  up  Pigeon  river,  and  following  said 
dividing  line  to  the  place  of  beginning. 

Sec.  2.  The  State  of  Minnesota  shall 
have  concurrent  jurisdiction  on  the  Mississippi 
and  all  other  rivers  and  waters  bordering  on 
the  said  State  of  Mmnesota,  so  far  as  the 
same  shall  form  a  common  boundary  to  said 
State,  and  any  other  State  or  States  now  or 
hereafter  to  be  formed  by  the  same ;  and  said 
river  and  waters,  and  navigable  waters  lead- 
ing into  the  same,  shall  be  common  high- 
ways, and  forever  free,  as  well  to  the  inhabi- 
tants of  said  State  as  to  other  citizens  of  the 
United  States,  without  any  tax,  duty,  unpost 
or  toll  therefor. 

Sec.  3.  The  propositions  contained  in  the 
act  of  Congress  entitled  "An  Act  to  authorize 
"  the  people  of  the  Territory  of  Minnesota  to 
"  form  a  Constitution  and  State  government 
"  preparatory  to  their  admission  into  the  Union 
"  on  an  equal  footing  with  the  original  States," 
are  hereby  accepted,  ratified,  and  confirmed, 
and  shall  remain  irrevocable  without  the  con- 
sent of  the  United  States ;  and  it  is  hereby 
ordamed  that  this  State  shall  never  interfere 
with  the  primary  disposal  of  the  soil  within 
the  same,  by  the  United  States,  or  with  any 
regulation  Congress  may  find  necessary  for 
securing  the  title  to  said  soil  to  bona  fide  pur- 
chasers thereof;  and  no  tax  shall  be  imposed 
on  lands  belongmg  to  the  United  States,  and 
in  no  case  shall  non-resident  proprietors  be 
taxed  higher  than  residents. 

ARTICLE    III. 

Distribution  of  the  Powers  of  Government. 

Sectios  1.  The;"  powers  of  government 
shall  be  divided  into  three  distinct  Depart- 
ments—the Legislative,  Executive  and  Judi- 
cial ;  and  no  person  or  persons  belonging  to  or 
constituting  one  of  these  Departments,  shall 


exercise  any  of  the  powers  properly  belonging 

to  either  of  the  others,  except  in  the  instances 

expressly  provided  in  this  Constitution. 

ARTICLE    IV. 

Legislative  Department. 

Section  1.  The  Legislature  of  the  State 
shall  consist  of  a  Senate  and  House  of  Rep- 
resentatives, who  shall  meet  at  the  Seat  of 
Government  of  the  State,  at  such  times  as 
shall  be  prescribed  by  law. 

Sec.  2.  The  number  of  members  who  com- 
pose the  Senate  and  House  of  Representatives 
shall  be  prescribed  by  law,  but  the  represen- 
tation in  the  Senate  shall  never  exceed  one 
member  for  every  five  thousand  inhabitants, 
and  in  the  House  of  Representatives  one  mem- 
ber for  every  two  thousand  inhabitants.  The 
representation  in  both  Houses  shall  be  appor- 
tioned equally  throughout  the  different  sec- 
tions of  the  State,  in  proportion  to  the  popu- 
lation thereof,  exclusive  of  Indians  not  taxa- 
ble under  the  provisions  of  law. 

Sec.  3.  Each  House  shall  be  the  judge  of 
the  election  returns,  and  eligibility  of  its  own 
members;  a  majority  of  each  shall  constitute 
a  quorum  to  transact  business,  but  a  smaller 
number  may  adjourn  from  day  to  day,  and 
compel  the  attendance  of  absent  members  in 
such  manner  and  under  such  penalties  as  it 
may  provide. 

Sec.  4.  Each  House  may  determine  the 
rules  of  its  proceedings,  sit  upon  its  own  ad- 
journment, punish  its  members  for  disorderly 
behavior,  and  with  the  concurrence  of  two- 
thirds,  expel  a  member,  but  no  member  shall 
be  expelled  a  second  time  for  the  same  of- 
fence. 

Sec.  5.  The  House  of  Representatives 
shall  elect  its  presiding  officer,  and  the  Sen- 
ate and  House  of  Representatives  shall  elect 
such  other  officers  as  may  be  provided  by 
law;  they  shall  keep  Journals  of  their  pro- 
ceedings, and  from  time  to  time  publish  the 
same,  and  the  yeas  and  nays,  when  taken  on 
any  question,  shall  be  entered  on  such  Jour- 
nals. 

Sec.  6.  Neither  House  shall,  during  the 
session  of  the  Legislature,  adjourn  for  more 
than  three  days,  (Sundays  excepted,)  nor  ia 
any  other  place  than  that  in  which  the  two 
Houses  shaU  be  assembled,  without  the  con- 
sent of  the  other  House. 


APPENDIX. 


Sec.  7.  The  compensation  of  Senators  and 
Representatives  shall  be  three  dollars  per 
diem  during  the  first  session,  but  may  after- 
wards be  prescribed  by  law.  But  no  increase 
of  compensation  shall  be  prescribed  which 
shall  take  effect  during  the  period  for  which 
the  members  of  the  existing  House  of  Repre- 
•sentatives  may  have  been  elected. 

Sec.  8.  The  members  of  each  House  shall 
in  all  cases,  except  treason,  felony,  and  breach 
of  the  peace,  be  privileged  from  arrest  during 
the  sessions  of  their  respective  Houses,  and 
in  going  to  or  returning  from  the  same.  For 
any  speech  or  debate  in  either  House  they 
shall  not  be  questioned  in  any  other  place. 

Sec.  9.  No  Senator  or  Representative 
shall,  during  the  time  for  which  he  is  elected, 
hold  any  office  under  the  authority  of  the 
United  States,  or  the  State  of  Minnesota  ex- 
cept that  of  Postmaster ;  and  no  Senator  or 
Representative  shall  hold  an  office  under  the 
State,  which  had  been  created,  or  the  emolu- 
ments of  which  had  been  increased  during  the 
session  of  the  Legislature  of  which  he  was  a 
member,  until  one  year  after  the  expiration  of 
his  term  of  office  in  the  Legislature. 

Sec.  10.  All  bills  for  raising  a  revenue 
shall  originate  in  the  House  of  Representa- 
tives, but  the  Senate  may  propose  and  concur 
with  amendments,  as  on  other  bills. 

Sec.  11.  Every  bill  which  shall  have  passed 
the  Senate  and  House  of  Representatives,  in 
conformity  to  the  rules  of  each  House  and 
the  Joint  Rules  of  the  two  Houses,  shall,  be- 
fore it  becomes  a  law,  be  presented  to  the 
Governor  of  the  State.  If  he  approve,  he 
shall  sign  and  deposit  it  in  the  office  of  Sec- 
retary of  State  for  preservation,  and  notify 
the  House  where  it  originated  of  the  fact. 
But  if  not,  he  shall  return  it  with  his  objec- 
tions to  the  House  in  which  it  shall  have  ori- 
ginated, when  such  objections  shall  be  entered 
at  large  on  the  journal  of  the  same,  and  the 
House  shall  proceed  to  reconsider  the  bill. 
If,  after  such  reconsideration,  two  thirds  of 
that  House  shall  agree  to  pass  the  bill,  it 
shall  be  sent,  together  with  the  objections,  to 
the  other  House,  by  which  it  shall  likewise  be 
reconsidered,  and  if  it  bo  approved  by  two 
thirds  of  that  House,  it  shall  become  a  law. 
But  in  all  such  cases  the  votes  of  both  Houses 
shall  be  determined  by  yeas  and  nays,  and 
the  nittiba  of  the  persons  voting  lor  or  against 


the  bill  shall  be  entered  on  the  journal  of 
each  House  respectively.  If  any  bill  shall 
not  be  returned  by  the  Governor  within  three 
days  (Sundays  excepted)  after  it  shall  have 
been  presented  to  him,  the  same  shall  be  a 
law  in  like  manner  as  if  he  had  signed  it,  un- 
less the  Legislature,  by  adjournment  within 
that  time,  prevent  its  return,  in  which  case  it 
shall  not  be  a  law.  The  Governor  may  ap- 
prove, sign,  and  file  in  the  office  of  the  Secre- 
tary of  State,  within  three  days  after  the  ad- 
journment of  the  Legislature,  any  act  passed 
during  the  three  last  days  of  the  session,  and 
the  same  shall  become  a  law. 

Sec.  12.  No  money  shall  be  appropriated 
except  by  bill.  Every  order,  resolution  or 
vote  requiring  the  concurrence  of  the  two 
Houses,  (except  such  as  relate  to  the  busi- 
ness or  adjournment  of  the  same,)  shall  be 
presented  to  the  Governor  for  his  signature, 
and  before  the  same  shall  take  effect,  shall 
be  approved  by  him,  or  being  returned  by 
him  with  his  objections,  shall  be  repassed  by 
two-thirds  of  the  members  of  the  two  Houses, 
according  to  the  rules  and  limitations,"  pre- 
scribed in  case  of  a  bill. 

Sec.  13.  The  style  of  all  laws  of  this 
State  shall  be :  "  Be  it  enacted  by  the  Legis- 
lature of  the  State  of  Minnesota."  No  law 
shall  be  passed  unless  voted  for  by  a  majority 
of  all  the  members  elected  to  each  branch  of 
the  Legislature,  and  the  vote  entered  upon  the 
journal  of  each  House. 

Sec.  14.  The  House  of  Representatives 
shall  have  the  sole  power  of  impeachment, 
through  a  concurrence  of  a  majority  of  all 
the  members  elected  to  seats  therein.  All 
impeachments  shall  be  tried  by  the  Senate ; 
and  when  sitting  for  that  purpose  the  Sena- 
tors shall  be  upon  oath  or  affirmation  to  do 
justice  according  to  law  and  evidence.  No 
person  shall  be  convicted  without  the  con- 
currence of  two-thirds  of  the  members  pres- 
ent. 

Sec.  15.  The  Legislature  shall  have  full 
power  to  exclude  from  the  privilege  of  elect- 
ing or  being  elected,  any  person  convicted 
of  bribery,  perjury,  or  any  other  infamous 
crime. 

Sec  16.  Two  or  more  members  of  either 
House  shall  have  liberty  to  dissent  and  pro- 
test against  any  act  or  resolution  which 
they  may  think  injurious  to  the  public  or  to 


APPENDIX. 


609 


any  individual,  and  have  the  reason  of  their 
dissent  entered  on  the  journal. 

Sec.  17.  The  Governor  shall  issue  writs 
of  election  to  fill  such  vacancies  [as  may  oc- 
cur in  either  House  of  the  Legislature.  The 
Legislature  shall  prescribe  by  law  the  manner 
in  which  evidence  in  cases  of  contested  seats 
in  either  House  shall  be  taken. 

Sec.  18.  Each  House  may  punish  by  im- 
prisonment, during  its  session,  any  person  not 
a  member,  who  shall  be  guilty  of  any  disor- 
derly or  contemptuous  behavior  in  their  pres- 
ence, but  no  such  imprisonment  shall  at  any 
time  exceed  twenty-four  hours. 

Sec.  19.  Each  House  shall  be  open  to  the 
public  during  the  sessions  thereof  except  in 
such  cases  as  their  opinion  may  require  se- 
crecy. 

Sec.  20.  Every  bill  shall  be  read  on  three 
diflFerent  days  in  each  separate  House,  unless 
in  case  of  urgency,  two-thirds  of  the  House 
where  such  bill  is  pending,  shall  deem  it  expe- 
dient to  dispense  with  this  rule  ;  and  no  bill 
shall  be  passed  by  either  House  until  it  shall 
have  been  previously  read  twice  at  length. 

Sec.  21.  Every  bill  having  passed  both 
Houses,  shall  be  carefully  enrolled,  and  shall 
be  signed  by  the  presiding  officer  of  each 
House.  Any  presiding  officer  refusing  to 
sign  a  bill  which  shall  have  previously  passed 
both  Houses,  shall  thereafter  be  incapable  of 
holding  a  seat  in  either  branch  of  the  Legis- 
lative Assembly,  or  hold  any  other  office  of 
honor  or  profit  in  the  State  ;  and  in  case  of 
such  refusal,  each  House  shall,  by  rule,  pro- 
vide the  manner  in  which  such  bill  shall  be 
properly  certified  for  presentation  to  the  Gov- 
ernor. 

Sec.  22.  No  bill  shall  be  passed  by  either 
House  of  the  Legislature  upon  the  day  pre- 
scribed for  the  adjournment  of  the  two 
Houses.  But  this  section  shall  not  be  so  con- 
strued as  to  preclude  the  enrollment  of  a  bill, 
or  the  signature  and  passage  from  one  House 
to  the  other,  or  the  reports  thereon  from  com- 
mittees, or  its  transmission  to  the  Executive 
for  his  signature. 

Sec  23.  The  Legislature  shall  provide  by 
law  for  the  envuneration  of  the  inhabitants  of 
this  State  in  the  year  one  thousand  eight  hun 
dred  and  sixty-five,  and  every  tenth  year 
thereafter.  At  their  first  session  after  each 
enumeration  so  made,  and  also  at  their  first 
77 


session  after  each  enumeration  made  by  the 
authority  of  the  United  States,  the  Legisla- 
ture shall  have  the  power  to  prescribe  the 
bounds  of  Congressional,  Senatorial  and  Rep- 
resentative districts,  and  to  apportion  anew 
the  Senators  and  Representatives  among  the 
several  districts,  according  to  the  provisions 
of  section  second  of  this  article. 

Sec.  24.  Ths  Senators  shall  also  be  chosen 
by  single  districts  of  convenient  contiguous 
territory,  at  the  same  time  that  the  members 
of  the  House  of  Represertatives  are  required 
to  be  chosen,  and  in  the  same  manner ;  and 
no  representative  district  shall  be  dinded  in 
the  formation  of  a  Senate  District.  The  Sen- 
ate districts  shall  be  numbered  in  regular 
series,  and  the  Senators  chosen  by  the  dis- 
trict designated  by  odd  numbers,  shall  go 
out  of  office  at  the  expiration  of  the  first 
year,  and  the  Senators  chosen  by  the'districts 
designated  by  even  numbers  shall  go  out  of 
office  at  the  expiration  of  the  second  year ; 
and  thereafter  the  Senators  shall  be  chosen 
for  the  term  of  two  years,  except  there  shall 
be  an  entire  new  election  of  all  the  Senators 
at  the  election  next  succeeding  each  new  ap- 
portionment provided  for  in  this  article. 

Sec.  25.  Senators  and  Representatives 
shall  be  qualified  voters  of  the  State,  and  shall 
have  resided  one  year  in  the  State,  and  six 
months  immediately  preceding  the^election  in 
the  district  from  which  they  are  elected. 

Sec  26.  Members  of  the  Senate  of  the 
United  States  from  this  State  shall  be  elected 
by  the  two  Houses  of  the  Legislature,  in  joint 
Convention,  at  such  times  and  in  such  man- 
ner as  may  be  provided  by  law. 

Sec  27.  No  law  shall  embrace  more  than 
one  subject,  which  shall  be  expressed  in  its 
title. 

Sec  28.  Divorces  shall  not  be  granted  by 
the  Legislature. 

Sec  29.  All  members  and  officers  of  both 
branches  of  the  Legislature  shall,  before  en- 
tering upon  the  duties  of  their  respective 
trusts,  take  and  subscribe  an  oath  or  affirma- 
tion to  support  the  Constitution  of  the  United 
States,  the  Constitution  of  the  State  of  Min  - 
nesota,  and  faithfully  and  impartially  to  dis- 
charge the  duties  devolving  upon  him  as  such 
member  or  officer. 

Sec  30.  In  all  elections  to  be  made  by  the 
Legislature,  the  members  thereof  shall  vote 


610 


APPENDIX. 


viva  VCC8,  and  their  votes  shall  be  entered  on 
the  Journal. 

Sec.  31.  The  Legislature  shall  ncer  au- 
thorize any  lotteiy,  or  the  sale  of  lottery 
tickets. 

ARTICLE  V. 
Executive  Department. 
Section  1.  The  Executive  Department 
shall  consist  of  a  Governor,  Lieutenant  Gov- 
ernor, Secretary  of  State,  Auditor,  Treasurer, 
and  Attorney  General,  who  shall  be  chosen 
by  the  electors  of  the  State. 

Sec.  2.  The  returns  of  every  election,  for 
the  officers  named  in  the  foregoing  section 
shall  be  made  to  the  Secretary  of  State,  and 
by  him  transmitted  to  the  Speaker  of  the 
House  of  Representatives,  who  shall  c^use 
the  same  to  be  opened  and  canvassed  before 
both  houses  of  the  Legislature,  and  the  re- 
sult declared  within  three  days  after  each 
House  shall  be  organized. 

Sec.  3.  The  term  of  oflBce  for  the  Gover- 
nor and  Lieutenant  Governor  shall  be  two 
years,  and  until  their  successors  are  chosen 
and  qualified.  Each  shall  have  attained  the 
age  of  twenty-five  (25)  years,  and  shall  have 
been  a  bona  fide  resident  of  the  State  for  one 
year  next  preceding  his  election.  Both  shall 
be  citizens  of  the  United  States. 

Sec.  4.  The  Governor  shall  communicate 
by  message  to  each  session  of  the  Legislature, 
such  information  touching  the  state  and  con- 
dition of  the  country  as  he  may  deem  expe- 
dient. He  shall  be  commander-in-chief  of  the 
military  and  naval  forces,  and  may  call  out 
such  forces  to  execute  the  laws,  to  suppress 
insurrection  and  to  repel  invasion.  He  may 
require  the  opinion,  in  writing,  of  the  princi- 
pal oflQcer  in  each  of  the  Executive  Depart- 
ments, upon  any  subject  relating  to  the  duties 
of  their  respective  offices,  and  he  shall  have 
power  to  grant  reprieves  and  pardons  after 
conviction  for  offences  against  the  State,  ex- 
cept in  cases  of  impeachment.  Ho  shall 
have  power,  by  and  with  the  advice  and  con- 
sent of  the  Senate,  to  appoint  a  State  Libra- 
rian and  Notaries  Public,  and  such  other  ofli- 
cers  as  may  be  provided  by  law ;  ho  shall 
have  power  to  appoint  Commissioners  to  take 
the  acknowledgment  of  deeds  or  other  instru- 
ments in  writing,  to  be  used  in  the  State. 
He  shall  have  a  negative  upon  all  laws  passed 
by  the  Legislature  under  such  rules  and  lim- 


itations as  are  in  this  Constitution  prescribed' 
He  may,  on  extraordinary  occasions  convene 
both  Houses  of  the  Legislature.  He  shall 
take  care  that  the  laws  be  faithfully  executed, 
fill  any  vacancy  that  may  occur  in  the  office 
of  Secretary  of  State,  Treasurer,  Auditor, 
Attorney  General,  and  such  other  State  and 
District  ofiicers  as  may  be  hereafter  created 
by  law,  until  the  next  annual  election,  and 
until  their  successors  are  chosen  and  quali- 
fied. 

Sec.  5.  The  ofiicial  term  of  the  Secretary 
of  State,  Treasurer  and  Attorney  General 
shall  be  two  years.  The  official  tenn  of  the 
Auditor  shall  be  three  years,  and  each  shall 
continue  in  oflBce  until  his  successor  shall 
have  been  elected  and  qualified.  The  Gov- 
ernor's salary  for  the  first  term  under  this 
Constitution  shall  be  two  thousand  five  hun- 
dred dollars  per  annum.  The  salary  of  the 
Secretary  of  State  for  the  first  term  shall  be 
fifteen  hundred  dollars  per  annum.  The 
Auditor,  Treasurer  and  Attorney  General 
shall  each,  for  the  first  term,  receive  a  salary 
of  one  thousand  dollars  per  annum.  And 
the  further  duties  and  salaries  of  said  Execu- 
tive officers  shall  each  thereafter  be  pre- 
scribed by  law. 

Sec.  6.  The  Lieutenant  Governor  shall 
be  ex-officio  President  of  the  Senate,  and  in 
case  a  vacancy  should  occur,  from  any  cause 
whatever,  in  the  office  of  Governor,  he  shall 
be  Governor  during  such  vacancy.  The  com- 
pensation of  Lieutenant  Governor  shall  be 
double  the  compensation  of  a  State  Senator. 
Before  the  close  of  each  session  of  the  Senate 
they  shall  elect  a  President  pro  tempore,  who 
shall  be  Lieutenant  Governor  in  case  a  va- 
cancy should  occur  in  that  office. 

Sec.  7.  The  term  of  each  of  the  Execu- 
tive offices  named  in  this  article,  shall  com- 
mence upon  taking  the  oath  of  office,  after 
the  State  shall  be  admitted  by  Congress  into 
the  Union,  and  continue  until  the  first  Mon- 
day in  January,  18G0,  except  the  Auditor, 
who  shall  continue  in  office  until  tlic  first 
Monday  in  January,  18G1,  and  until  their 
successors  shall  have  been  duly  elected  and 
qualified. 

Sec.  8.  Each  officer  created  by  this  ar- 
ticle, shall,  before  entering  upon  Iiis  duties, 
take  an  oath  or  affirmation  to  support  the 
Constitution  of   the  United  States,  and  of 


APPENDIX 


611 


this  State,  and  faithfully  discharge  the  duties 
of  his  office  to  the  best  of  liis  judgment  and 
ability. 

Sec.  9.  Laws  shall  be  passed  at  the  first 
session  of  the  Legislature  after  the  State  is 
admitted  into  the  Union  to  carry  out  the  pro- 
visions of  thLs  article. 

ARTICLE    VI. 

Judicial. 

Section  1.  The  Judicial  power  of  the 
State  shall  be  vested  in  a  Supreme  Court, 
District  Courts,  Courts  of  Probate,  Justices 
of  the  Peace,  and  such  other  Courts,  inferior 
to  the  Supreme  Court,  as  the  Legislature 
may  from  time  to  time  establish  by  a  two- 
thirds  vote. 

Sec.  2.  The  Supreme  Court  shall  consist 
of  one  Chief  Justice  and  two  Associate  Jus- 
tices, but  the  number  of  Associate  Justices 
may  be  increased  to  a  number  not  exceeding 
four,  by  the  Legislature,  by  a  two-thirds 
vote,  when  it  shall  be  deemed  necessary.  It 
shall  have  original  jurisdiction  in  such  reme- 
dial cases  as  may  be  prescribed  by  law,  and 
appellate  jurisdiction  in  all  cases,  both  in 
law  and  equity,  but  there  shall  be  no  trial 
by  jury  in  said  Court.  It  shall  hold  one  or 
more  terms  in  each  year,  as  the  Legislature 
may  direct,  at  the  seat  of  Government,  and 
the  Legislature  may  provide  by  a  two-thirds 
vote,  that  one  term  in  each  year  shall  be  held 
in  each  or  any  Judicial  District.  It  shall  be 
the  duty  of  such  Court  to  appoint  a  Reporter 
of  its  decisions.  There  shall  be  chosen  by 
the  qualified  electors  of  the  State,  one  Clerk 
of  the  Supreme  Court,  who  shall  hold  his  of- 
fice for  the  term  of  three  years,  and  until  his 
successor  is  duly  elected  and  qualified,  and 
the  Judges  of  the  Supreme  Court,  or  a  ma- 
jority of  them,  shall  have  the  power  to  fill 
any  vacancy  in  the  office  of  Clerk  of  the  Su- 
preme Court  until  an  election  can  be  regu- 
larly had. 

Sec.  3.  The  Judges  of  the  Supreme  Court 
shall.be  elected  by  the  electors  of  the  State  at 
lar<^,  and  their  term  of  office  shall  be  seven 
years,  and  until  their  successors  are  elected 
and  qualified. 

Sec  4.  The  State  shall  be  divided  by  the 
Legislature  into  six  Judicial  Districts,  which 
shall  be  composed  of  contiguous  territory,  be 
bounded  by  county  lines,  and  contain  a  pop- 
ulation as  nearly  equal  as  may  be  practica- 


ble. In  each  Judicial  District,  one  Judge 
shall  be  elected  by  the  electors  thereof,  who 
sliall  constitute  said  Court,  and  whose  term 
of  office  shall  be  seven  years.  Every  Dis- 
trict Judge  shall,  at  the  time  of  his  election, 
be  a  resident  of  the  District  for  which  he 
shall  be  elected,  and  shall  reside  therein  du- 
ring his  continuance  in  office. 

Sec  5.  The  District  Courts  shall  have 
original  jurisdiction  in  aU  civil  cases,  both  in 
law  and  equity,  where  the  amount  in  contro- 
versy exceeds  one  hundred  dollars,  and  in  all 
criminal  cases  where  the  punishment  shall  ex- 
ceed three  months  imprisonment,  or  a  fine  of 
more  than  one  hundred  dollars,  and  shall 
have  such  appellate  jurisdiction  as  may  be 
prescribed  by  law.  The  Legislature  may 
provide  by  law  that  the  Judge  of  one  District 
may  discharge  the  duties  of  Judge  of  any 
other  district,  not  his  own,  when  convenience 
or  the  public  interest  may  require  it. 

Sec.  6.  The  Judges  of  the  Supreme  and 
District  Courts  shall  be  men  learned  in  the 
law,  and  shall  receive  such  compensation,  at 
stated  times,  as  may  be  prescribed  by  the 
Legislature,  which  compensation  shall  not  be 
diminished  during  their  continuance  in  office, 
but  they  shall  receive  no  other  fee  or  reward 
for  their  services. 

Sec.  7.  There  shall  be  established  in  each 
organized  county  in  the  State  a  Probate 
Court,  which  shall  be  a  Court  of  Record,  and 
be  held  at  such  times  and  places  as  may  be 
prescribed  by  law.  It  shall  be  held  by  one 
Judge,  who  shall  be  elected  by  the  voters  of 
the  county,  for  the  term  of  two  years.  He 
shall  be  a  resident  of  such  county  at  the  time 
of  his  election,  and  reside  therein  during  his 
continuance  in  office,  and  his  compensation 
shall  be  provided  by  law.  He  may  appoint 
his  own  Clerk,  where  none  has  been  elected, 
but  the  Legislature  may  authorize  the  election 
by  the  electors  of  any  county,  of  one  Clerk 
or  Register  of  Probate  for  such  coimty,  whose 
powers,  duties,  term  of  office  and  compensa- 
tion shall  be  prescribed  by  law.  A  Probate 
Court  shall  have  jurisdiction  over  the  estates 
of  deceased  persons,  and  persons  vmder 
guardianship,  but  no  other  jurisdiction  except 
as  prescribed  by  this  Constitution. 

Sec  8.  The  Legislature  shall  provide  for 
the  election  of  a  sufficient  number  of  Justi- 
ces of  the  Peace  in  each  county,  whose  term 


612 


APPENDIX. 


of  office  shall  be  two  years,  and  whose  duties 
and  compensation  shall  be  prescribed  by  law ; 
Provided^  That  po  Justice  of  the  Peace  shall 
have  jurisdiction  of  any  civil  cause  where  the 
amount  in  controversy  shall  exceed  one  hun- 
dred dollars,  nor  in  a  criminal  cause  where 
the  punishment  shall  exceed  three  months 
imprisonment,  or  a  fine  of  over  one  hundred 
dollars,  nor  in  any  case  involving  the  title  to 
real  estate. 

Sec.  9.  All  judges  other  than  those  pro- 
vided for  in  this  Constitution  shall  be  elected 
by  the  electors  of  the  Judicial  district,  county 
or  city,  for  which  they  shall  be  created,  nor 
for  a  longer  term  than  seven  years. 

Sec.  10.  In  case  the  office  of  any  Judge 
shall  become  vacant  before  the  expiration  of 
the  regular  term  for  which  he  was  elected,  the 
vacancy  shall  be  filled  by  appointment  by  the 
Governor  until  a  successor  is  elected  and 
qualified.  And  such  successor  shall  be  elected 
at  the  first  annual  election  that  occurs  more 
than  thirty  days  after  the  vacancy  shall  have 
happened. 

Sec.  11.  The  Justices  of  the  Supreme 
Court  and  the  District  Courts  shall  hold  no 
office  under  the  United  States,  nor  any  other 
office  under  this  State.  And  all  votes  for 
either  of  them  for  any  elective  office  under 
this  Constitution,  except  a  Judicial  office, 
given  by  the  Legislature  or  the  people,  during 
their  continuance  in  office,  shall  be  void. 

Sec  12.  The  Legislature  may  at  any  time 
change  the  number  of  Judicial  Districts,  or 
their  boundaries,  when  it  shall  be  deemed 
expedient,  but  no  such  change  shall  vacate 
the  office  of  any  Judge. 

Sec.  13.  There  shall  be  elected  in  each 
county  where  a  district  court  shall  be  held, 
one  clerk  of  said  court,  whose  qualifications, 
duties  and  compensation  shall  be  prescribed 
by  law,  and  whose  term  of  office  shall  be  four 
years. 

Sec.  14.  Legal  pleadings  and  proceedings 
in  the  courts  of  this  State  shall  be  under  the 
direction  of  the  Legislature.  The  style  of  all 
process  shall  be  "The  State  of  Minnesota," 
and  all  indictments  shall  include  "Against 
"  the  peace  and  dignity  of  the  State  of  Minne- 
"sota." 

Sec,  15.  The  Legislature  may  provide  for 
the  election  of  one  person  in  each  organized 
county  in  this  State,  to  be  called  a  Court 


Commissioner,  with  judicial  power  and  juris- 
diction not  exceeding  the  power  and  jurisdic- 
tion of  a  Judge  of  the  District  Court  at 
Chambers,  or  the  Legislature  may,  instead  of 
such  election,  confer  such  power  and  jurisdic- 
tion upon  Judges  of  Probate  in  the  State. 

ARTICLE  VII. 
Elective  Franchise. 

Section  1.  Every  male  person  of  the  age 
of  twentji'-one  years  or  upwards,  belonging  to 
either  of  the  following  classes,  who  shall  have 
resided  in  the  United  States  one  year  and  in 
this  State  for  four  months  next  preceding  any 
election,  shall  be  entitled  to  vote  at  such 
election,  in  the  election  district  of  which  he 
shall  at  the  time  have  been  for  ten  days  a 
resident,  for  all  officers  that  now  are  or  here- 
after may  be  elective  by  the  people : 

First.     White  citizens  of  the  United  States. 

Second.  White  persons  of  foreign  birth, 
who  shall  have  declared  their  intention  to 
become  citizens,  conformably  to  the  laws  of 
the  United  States  upon  the  subject  of  natura- 
lization. 

Third.  Persons  of  mixed  white  and  Indian 
blood,  who  have  adopted  the  customs  and 
habits  of  civilization. 

Fourth.  Persons  of  Indian  blood  residing 
in  this  State,  who  have  adopted  the  language, 
customs  and  habits  of  civilization,  after  an 
examination  before  any  District  Court  of  the 
State,  in  such  manner  as  may  be  provided  by 
law,  and  shall  have  been  pronounced  by  said 
court  capable  of  enjoying  the  rights  of  citi- 
zenship within  the  State. 

Sec  2.  No  person  not  belonging  to  one  of 
the  classes  specified  in  the  preceding  sec- 
tion ;  no  person  who  has  been  convicted  of 
treason  or  any  felony,  unless  restored  to  civil 
rights ;  and  no  person  under  guardianship,  or 
who  may  be  iion  compos  mentis  or  insane, 
shall  be  entitled  or  permitted  to  vote  at  any 
election  in  this  State. 

Sec  3.  For  the  purpose  of  voting,  no  per- 
son shall  be  deemed  to  have  lost  a  residence 
by  reason  of  his  absence  while  employed  in 
the  service  of  the  United  States ;  nor  while 
engaged  upon  the  waters  of  this  State  or  of 
the  United  States ;  nor  while  a  student  of  any 
scmkiary  of  learning ;  nor  while  kept  at  any 
alms-house  or  other  asylum ;  nor  while  con- 
fined in  any  public  prison. 

Sec.  4.    No  soldier,  seaman,  or  marine  in 


APPENDIX. 


613 


the  army  or  navy  of  the  United  States,  shall 
be  deemed  a  resident  of  this  State  in  conse- 
quence of  being  stationed  within  the  same. 

Sec.  5.  During  the  day  on  which  any 
election  shall  be  held,  no  person  shall  be  ar- 
rested by  virtue  of  any  civil  process. 

Sec.  6.  All  elections  shall  be  by  ballot, 
except  for  such  town  officers  as  may  be  di- 
rected by  law  to  be  otherwise  chosen. 

Sec.  7.  Every  person  who,  by  the  provis- 
ions of  this  article  shall  be  entitled  to  vote  at 
any  election,  shall  be  eligible  to  any  office 
which  now  is,  or  hereafter  shall  be,  elective 
by  the  people  in  the  district  wherein  he  shall 
have  resided  thirty  days  previous  to  such 
election ;  except  as  otherwise  provided  in  this 
Constitution,  or  the  Constiliution  and  Laws  of 
the  United  States. 

ARTICLE  Vm. 
School  Funds,  Education  and  Science. 

Section  1.  The  stability  of  a  republican 
form  of  government  depending  mainly  upon 
the  intelligence  of  the  people,  it  shall  be  the 
duty  of  the  Legislature  to  establish  a  general 
and  uniform  system  of  public  schools. 

Sec  2.  The  proceeds  of  such  lands  as  are 
or  hereafter  may  be  granted  by  the  United 
States  for  the  use  of  schools  within  each 
township  in  this  State,  shall  remain  a  perpet- 
ual school  fund  to  the  State,  and  not  more 
than  one-third  (1-3)  of  said  lands  may  be 
sold  in  two  (2)  years,  one  third  (1-3)  in  five 
(5)  years,  and  one-third  (1-3)  in  ten  (10) 
years ;  but  the  lands  of  the  greatest  valuation 
shall  be  sold  first,  provided  that  no  portion  of 
said  lands  shall  be  sold  otherwise  than  at 
public  sale.  The  principal  of  all  funds  aris- 
ing from  sales  or  other  disposition  of  lands, 
or  other  property,  granted  or  entrusted  to 
this  State  in  each  township  for  educational 
purposes,  shall  forever  be  preserved  inviolate 
and  undiminished ;  and  the  income  arising 
from  the  lease  or  sale  of  said  school  lands 
shall  be  distributed  to  the  different  townships 
throughout  the  State,  in  proportion  to  the 
number  of  scholars  in  each  township  between 
the  ages  of  five  and  twenty-one  years,  and 
shall  be  faithfully  applied  to  the  specific  ob- 
jects of  the  original  grants  or  appropriations. 

Sec.  3.  The  Legislature  shall  make  such 
provisions,  by  taxation  or  otherwise,  as,  with 
the  income  arising  from  the  school  fund,  will 
secure  a  thorough  and  efficient  system  of 


Public    Schools   in  each    township    in    the 
State. 

Sec.  4.  The  location  of  the  University  of 
Minnesota  as  established  by  existing  laws,  is 
hereby  confirmed,  and  said  institution  is  here- 
by declared  to  be  the  University  of  the  State 
of  Minnesota.  AU  the  rights,  immunities, 
franchises  and  endowments  heretofore  grant- 
ed or  confen-ed,  are  hereby  perpetuated  unto 
the  said  University,  and  all  lands  which  may 
be  granted  hereafter  by  Congress  or  other 
donations  for  said  University  purposes  shall 
vest  in  the  institution  referred  to  in  this  Sec- 
tion. 

ARTICLE  IX. 
Finances  of  tJu  State,  and  Banis  and  Banking. 

Section  1.  All  taxes  to  be  raised  in  this 
State  shall  be  as  nearly  equal  as  may  be,  and 
all  property  on  which  taxes  are  to  be  levied 
shall  have  a  cash  valuation,  and  be  equalized 
and  uniform  throughout  the  State. 

Sec  2.  The  Legislature  shall  provide  for 
an  Annual  Tax  sufficient  to  defray  the  esti- 
mated expenses  of  the  State  for  each  year ; 
and  whenever  it  shall  happen  that  such  or- 
dinary expenses  of  the  State  for  any  year 
shall  exceed  the  income  of  the  State  for  such 
year,  the  Legislature  shall  provide  for  levying 
a  tax  for  the  ensuing  year  sufficient  with 
other  sources  of  income,  to  pay  the  deficiency 
of  the  preceding  year,  together  with  the  esti- 
mated expenses  of  such  ensuing  year. 

Sec.  3.  Laws  shall  be  passed  taxing  all 
moneys,  credits,  investments  in  bonds,  stocks, 
joint  stock  companies,  or  otherwise,  and  also 
all  real  and  personal  property,  according  to 
its  true  value  in  money;  but  public  burying 
grounds,  public  school  houses,  public  hospi- 
tals, academies,  colleges,  universities,  and  all 
seminaries  of  learning,  all  churches,  church 
property  used  for  rehgious  purposes  and 
houses  of  worship,  institutions  of  purely  pub- 
Uc  charity,  public  property  used  exclusively 
for  any  pubUc  purpose,  and  personal  property 
to  an  amount*  not  exceeding  in  value  two  hun- 
dred dollars  for  each  individual,  shall,  by  gen- 
eral laws,  be  exempt  from  taxation. 

Sec  4.  Laws  shall  be  passed  for  taxing 
the  notes  and  bills  discounted  or  purchased, 
moneys  loaned,  and  all  other  property,  effects, 
or  dues  of  every  description,  of  all  banks, 
and  of  aU  bankers  ;  so  that  all  property  em- 
ployed in  banking  shall  always  be  subject  to 


614 


APPENDIX. 


a  taxation  equal  to  that  imposed  on  the  pro- 
perty of  individuals. 

Sec.  5.     For  the  purpose  of  defraying  ex- 
traordinary expenditures,  the  State  may  con- 
tract public  debts,  but  such  debts  shall  never 
in  the   aggi-egate  exceed  two  hundred  and 
fifty  thousand  dollars  ;  every  such  debt  shall 
be  authorized  by  law,  for  some  single  object 
to  be  distinctly  specified  therein  ;  and  no  such 
law  shall  take  effect  until  it  shall  have  been 
passed  by  the  vote  of  two-thirds  of  the  mem- 
bers of  each  branch  of  the  Legislature,  to  be 
recorded  by  yeas  and  nays  on  the  journals  of 
each  House  respectively  ;  and  every  such  law 
shall  levy  a  tax  annually  sufficient  to  pay  the 
annual  interest  of  such  debt,  and  also  a  tax 
sufficient  to  pay  the  principal  of  such  debt 
within  ten  years  from  the  final  passage  of 
such  law,  and  shall  specially  appropriate  the 
proceeds  of  such  taxes  to  the  payment  of 
such  principal   and  interest;  and  such  ap- 
propriation and  taxes  shall  not  be  repealed, 
postponed  or  diminished  until  the  principal 
and  interest  of  such  debt  shall  have  been 
wholly  paid.     The  State  shall  never  contract 
any  debts  for  works  of  internal  improvement, 
or  be  a  party  in  carrying  on  such  works,  ex- 
cept in  cases  where  grants  of  land  or  other 
property  shall  have  been  made  to  the  State 
especially  dedicated  by  the  grant  to  specific 
purposes  ;  and  in  such  cases  the  State  shall 
devote  thereto  the  avails  of  such  grants,  and 
may  pledge  or  appropriate  the  revenues  de- 
rived from  such  works  in  aid  of  their  comple- 
tion. 

Sec.  6.  All  debts  authorized  by  the  pre- 
ceding section  shall  be  contracted  by  loan  on 
State  bonds  of  amounts  not  less  than  five 
hundred  dollars  each,  on  interest  payable 
within  ten  years  after  the  final  passage  of  the 
law  authorizing  such  debt ;  and  such  bonds 
shall  not  be  sold  by  the  State  under  par.  A 
correct  registry  of  all  such  bonds  shall  be 
kept  by  the  Treasurer,  in  numerical  order, 
so  as  always  to  exhibit  the  number  and 
amount  unpaid,  and  to  whcm^sevcrally  made 
payable. 

Sec.  7.  The  State  shall  never  contract 
any  public  debt,  unless  in  time  of  war,  to  re- 
pel invasion  or  suppress  insurrection,  except 
in  the  cases  and  in  the  manner  provided  in  the 
fiftli  and  sixth  sections  of  this  Article. 
Sec.  8.    The  money  arising  from  any  loan  I 


made,  or  debt  or  liability  contracted,  shall  be 
applied  to  the  object  specified  in  the  act  au- 
thorizing such  debt  or  liability,  and  to  no 
other  purpose  whatever. 

Sec.  9.  No  money  shall  ever  be  paid  out 
of  the  Treasury  of  this  State,  except  in  pur- 
suance of  an  appropriation  by  law. 

Sec,  10.  The  credit  of  the  State  shall 
never  be  given  or  loaned  in  aid  of  any  indi- 
vidual, association  or  corporation. 

Sec.  11.  There  shall  be  published  by  the 
Treasurer,  in  at  least  one  newspaper  printed 
at  the  seat  of  Government,  during  the  first 
week  in  January  of  each  year,  and  in  the 
next  volume  of  the  Acts  of  the  Legislature, 
detailed  statements  of  all  moneys  drawn  from 
the  Treasury  during  the  preceding  year ;  for 
what  purposes,  and  to  whom  paid,  and  by 
what  law  authorized  ;  and  also  of  all  moneys 
received,  and  by  what  authority,  and  from 
whom. 

Sec.  12.  Suitable  laws  shall  be  passed  by 
the  Legislature  for  the  safe  keeping,  transfer 
and  disbursement  of  the  State  and  School 
fimds,  and  all  oflBcers  and  other  persons 
charged  with  the  same  shall  be  required  to 
give  ample  security  for  all  moneys  and  funds 
of  any  kind,  to  keep  an  accurate  entry  of 
each  svaa  received,  and  of  each  payment  and 
transfer,  and  if  any  of  said  officers  or  other 
persons  shall  convert  to  his  own  use  in  any 
form,  or  shall  loan  with  or  without  interest, 
contrary  to  law,  or  shall  deposit  in  banks,  or 
exchange  for  other  fund,  any  portion  of  the 
funds  of  the  State,  every  such  act  shall  be 
adjudged  to  be  an  embezzlement  of  so  much 
of  the  State  funds  as  shall  be  thus  taken, 
and  shall  be  declared  a  felony ;  and  any  fail- 
ure to  pay  over  or  produce  the  State  or 
School  funds  intrusted  to  such  persons,  on 
demand,  shall  be  held  and  taken  to  hopmna 
facie  evidence  of  such  embezzlement. 

Sec.  13.  The  Legislature  may,  by  a  two- 
thirds  vote,  pass  a  General  Banking  Law, 
with  the  following  restrictions  and  require- 
ments, viz : 

First.  The  Legislature  shall  have  no  power 
to  pass  any  law  sanctioning  in  any  manner, 
directly  or  indirectly,  the  suspension  of  spe- 
cie payments  by  any  person,  association  or 
corporation  issuing  bank  notes  of  any  descrip- 
tion. 
Second.    The  Legislature  shall  provide  by 


APPENDIX. 


615 


law  for  the  registry  of  all  bills  or  notes  is- 
sued or  put  in  circulation  as  money,  and  shall 
requu'e  ample  security  in  United  States  stock 
or  State  stocks  fo|  the  redemption  of  the 
same  in  specie,  and  in  case  of  a  depreciation 
of  said  stocks,  or  any  part  thereof,  to  the 
amovmt  of  ten  per  cent,  or  more  on  the  dol- 
lar, the  bank  or  banks  owning  said  stocks 
shall  be  required  to  make  up  said  deficiency 
by  additional  stocks. 

Third.  The  stockholders  in  any  corpora- 
tion or  joint  association  for  banking  purposes 
issuing  bank  notes,  shall  be  individually  lia- 
ble in  an  amount  equal  to  double  the  amount 
of  stock  owned  by  them  for  the  debts  of 
such  corporation  or  association,  and  such  in- 
dividual liability  shall  continue  for  one  year 
after  any  transfer  or  sale  of  stock  by  any 
stockholder  or  stockholders. 

Fourth.  In  case  of  the  insolvency  of  any 
bank  or  banking  association,  the  billholders 
thereof  shall  be  entitled  to  preference  in  pay- 
ment over  all  other  creditors  of  such  bank  or 
association. 

Fifth.  Any  General  Banking  Law  which 
may  be  passed  in  accordance  with  this  article 
shall  provide  for  recording  the  names  of  all 
stockholders  in  such  corporations,  the  amount 
of  stock  held  by  each,  the  time  of  transfer, 
and  to  whom  transferred. 

ARTICLE    X. 
0/  Corporations  having  no  Banhing  Privileges. 

Section  1.  The  term  "  Corporations,"  as 
used  in  this  article,  shall  be  construed  to  in- 
clude aU  associations  and  joint  stock  compa- 
nies having  any  of  the  powers  and  privileges 
not  possessed  by  individuals  or  partnerships, 
except  such  as  embrace  banking  privileges, 
and  all  corporations  shall  have  the  right  to 
sue,  and  shall  be  liable  to  be  sued  in  all  courts 
in  like  manner  as  natural  persons. 

Sec.  2.  No  corporation  shall  be  formed 
under  special  acts,  except  for  municipal  pm-- 
poses. 

Sec.  3.  Each  stockholder  in  any  corpora- 
tion shall  be  liable  to  the  amount  of  the  stock 
held  or  owned  by  him. 

Sec  4.  Lands  may  be  taken  for  public 
way,  for  the  purpose  of  granting  to  any  cor- 
poration the  franchise  of  way  for  pubUc  use. 
In  all  cases,  however,  a  fair  and  equitable 
compensation  shall  be  paid  for  such  land,  and 
the  damages  arising  from  the  taking  of  the 


same ;  but  all  corporations  being  common 
carriers,  enjoying  the  right  of  way  in  pursu- 
ance of  the  provisions  of  this  section,  shall 
be  bound  to  carry  the  mineral,  agricultural 
and  other  productions  or  manufactures  on 
equal  and  reasonable  terms. 

ARTICLE    XI. 
Counties  and  TovmsMps, 

Section  1.  The  Legislature  may,  fi-om 
time  to  time,  establish  and  organize  new 
counties,  but  no  new  county  shall  contain 
less  than  four  hundred  square  miles ;  nor 
shall  any  county  be  reduced  below  that 
amount ;  and  all  laws  changing  county  lines 
in  counties  already  organized,  or  for  removing 
county  seats  shall,  before  taking  effect,  be 
submitted  to  the  electors  of  the  coimty  or 
counties  to  be  affected  thereby,  at  the  next 
general  election  after  the  passage  thereof,  and 
be  adopted  by  a  majority  of  such  electors. 
Counties  now  established  may  be  enlarged, 
but  not  reduced  below  four  hundred  (400,) 
square  miles. 

Sec.  2.  The  Legislature  may  organize 
any  city  into  a  separate  county  when  it  has 
attained  a  population  of  twenty  thousand  in- 
habitants, without  reference  to  geographical 
extent,  when  a  majority  of  the  electors  of  the 
county  in  which  such  city  may  be  situated, 
voting  thereon,  shall  be  in  favor  of  separate 
organization. 

Sec.  3.  Laws  may  be  passed  providing 
for  the  organization,  for  municipal  and  other 
town  purposes,  of  any  Congressional  or  frac- 
tional townships  in  the  several  counties  in 
the  State,  provided  that  when  a  township  is 
divided  by  county  lines,  or  does  not  contain 
one  hundred  mhabitants,  it  may  be  attached 
to  one  or  more  adjoining  townships  or  parts 
of  townships,  for  the  purposes  aforesaid. 

Sec  4.  Provision  shall  be  made  by  law 
for  the  election  of  such  covmty  or  township 
officers  as  may  be  necessary. 

Sec  5.  Any  county  and  tow  nship  organ- 
ization shall  have  such  powers  of  local  taxa- 
tion as  may  be  prescribed  by  law. 

Sec  6.  No  money  shall  be  drawn  from 
any  county  or  township  treasury  except  by 
authority  of  law. 

ARTICLE    XII. 
Of  the  JUmUa. 

Section  1.  It  shall  be  the  duty  of  the  Leg- 
islature to  pass  such  laws  for  the  organiza- 


616 


APPENDIX. 


tion,   discipline  and  service  of  the  Militia  of 
the  State,  as  may  be  deemed  necessary. 
ARTICLE    XIII. 
Impeachment  and  Bemoval  from  Office. 
Section  1.      The   Governor,  Secretary  of 
State,  Treasurer,  Auditor,  Attorney  General 
and  the  Judges  of  the  Supreme  and  District 
Courts,  may  be  impeached  for  corrupt  con- 
duct in  office,  or  for  crimes  and  misdemean- 
ors;   but  judgment  in  such  case  shall  not 
extend  further  than  to  removal  from  office 
and  disqualification  to  hold  and  enjoy  any 
office  of  honor,  trust  or  profit,  in  this  State. 
The  party  convicted  thereof  shall  neverthe- 
less be  liable  and  subject  to  indictment,  trial, 
judgment  and  punishment  according  to  law. 

Sec.  2.  The  Legislature  of  this  State  may 
provide  for  the  removal  of  inferior  officers 
from  office,  for  malfeasance  or  nonfeasance  in 
the  performance  of  their  duties. 

Sec.  3.  No  officer  shall  exercise  the  duties 
of  his  office  after  he  shall  have  been  im- 
peached and  before  his  acquittal. 

Sec.  4.  On  the  trial  of  an  impeachment 
against  the  Governor,  the  Lieutenant  Gover- 
nor shall  not  act  as  a  member  of  the  Court. 

Sec  5.  No  person  shall  be  tried  on  im- 
peachment before  he  shall  have  been  served 
with  a  copy  thereof  at  least  twenty  days  pre- 
vious to  the  day  set  for  trial. 

ARTICLE  XIV. 
Amendments  to  the  Constitution. 
Section  1.  Whenever  a  majority  of  both 
Houses  of  the  Legislature  shall  deem  it  neces- 
sary to  alter  or  amend  this  Constitution,  they 
may  propose  such  alterations  or  amendments, 
which  proposed  amendments  shall  be  pub- 
lished with  the  laws  which  have  been  passed 
at  the  same  session,  and  said  amendments 
shall  be  submitted  to  the  people  for  their  ap- 
proval or  rejection ;  and  if  it  shall  appear  in 
a  manner  to  be  provided  by  law,  that  a  ma- 
jority of  the  voters  present  and  voting  shall 
have  ratified  such  alterations  or  amendments, 
the  same  shall  be  valid  to  all  intents  and  pur- 
poses, as  a  part  of  this  Constitution.  If  two 
or  more  alterations  or  amendments  shall  be 
submitted  at  the  same  time,  it  shall  be  so  reg- 
ulated that  the  voters  shall  vote  for  or  against 
each  scaparately. 

Sec.  2.  Whenever  two-thirds  of  the  mem- 
bers elected  to  each  branch  of  the  Legisla- 
ture shall  think  it  necessary  to  call  a  Conven- 


tion to  revise  this  Constitution,  they  shall 
recommend  to  the  electors  to  vote,  at  the  next 
election  for  members  of  the  Legislature,  for  or 
against  a  Convention ;  and  if  a  majority  of  all 
the  electors  voting  at  said  election,  shall  have 
voted  for  a  Convention,  the  Legislature  shall 
at  their  next  session  provide  by  law  for  call- 
ing the  same.     The  Convention  shall  consist 
of  as  many  members  as  the  House  of  Repre- 
sentatives, who  shall  be  chosen  in  the  same 
manner,  and  shall  meet  within  three  months 
after  their  election  for  the  purpose  aforesaid. 
ARTICLE  XV. 
Miscellaneous  Subjects. 
Section  1.     The  seat  of  government  of  the 
State  shall  be  at  the  city  of  St.  Paul,  but  the 
Legislature,  at  their  first  or  any  future  ses- 
sion may  provide  by  law  for  a  change  of  the 
seat  of  government  by  a  vote  of  the  people, 
or  may  locate  the  same  upon  the  land  granted 
by  Congress  for  a  seat  of  Government  to  the 
State  ;  and  in  the  event  of  the  seat  of  govern- 
ment being  removed  from  the  city  of  St.  Paul 
to  any  other  place  in  the  State,  the  Capitol 
building  and  grounds  shall  be  dedicated  to  an 
institution  for  the  promotion  of  science,  liter- 
ature and  the  arts,  to  be  organized  by  the 
Legislature  of  the  State,  and  of  which  insti- 
tution the  Minnesota  Historical  |Society  shall 
always  be  a  department. 

Sec  2.  Persons  residing  on  Indian  lands 
within  this  State  shall  enjoy  all  the  rights  and 
privileges  of  citizens  as  though  they  lived  in 
any  other  portion  of  the  State,  and  shall  be 
subject  to  taxation. 

Sec  3.  The  Legislature  shall  provide  for 
a  uniform  oath  or  affirmation  to  be  adminis- 
tered at  elections,  and  no  person  shall  be  com- 
pelled to  take  any  other  or  diiferent  Ibrm  of 
oath  to  entitle  him  to  vote. 

Sec  4.  There  shall  be  a  seal  of  the  State, 
which  shall  be  kept  by  the  Secretary  of  State, 
and  be  used  by  him  officially,  and  shall  be 
called  the  Great  Seal  of  the  State  of  Minne- 
sota, and  shall  be  attached  to  all  official  acts 
of  the  Governor,  (his  signature  to  acts  and 
resolves  of  the  Legislature  excepted",)  requir- 
ing authentication.  The  Legislature  shall 
provide  for  an  appropriate  device  and  motto 
for  said  seal. 

Sec  6.  The  Territorial  prison  as  located 
under  existing  laws,  shall,  after  the  adoption 


APPENDIX. 


617 


of  this  Constitution,  be  and  remain  one  of  the 
State  Prisons  of  the  State  of  Minnesota. 
SCHEDULE. 

Section  1.  That  no  inconvenience  may- 
arise  by  reason  of  a  change  from  a  Territorial 
to  a  permanent  State  government,  it  is  de- 
clared that  all  rights,  actions,  prosecutions, 
judgments,  claims  and  contracts,  as  well  of 
individual  as  of  bodies  corporate,  shall  con- 
tinue as  if  no  change  had  taken  place ;  and  all 
process  which  may  be  issued  under  the  author- 
ity of  the  Territory  of  Minnesota  previous  to 
its  admission  into  the  Union  of  the  United 
States,  shaU  be  as  vahd  as  if  issued  in  the 
name  of  the  State. 

Sec.  2.  All  laws  now  in  force  in  the  Ter- 
ritory of  Minnesota  not  repugnant  to  this 
Constitution,  shall  remain  in  force  until  they 
expire  by  their  own  limitation,  or  be  altered 
or  repealed  by  the  Legislature. 

Sec.  3.  All  fines,  penalties  or  forfeitures 
accruing  to  the  Territory  of  Minnesota,  shall 
inure  to  the  State. 

Sec.  4.  All  recognizances  heretofore  taken, 
or  wliich  may  be  taken  before  the  change  from 
Territorial  to  permanent  a  State  Government 
shall  remain  valid,  and  shall  pass  to,  and  may 
be  prosecuted  in  the  name  of  the  State ;  and 
all  bonds  executed  to  the  Governor  of  the 
Territory,  or  to  any  other  officer  or  court  in 
his  or  their  official  capacity,  shall  pass  to  the 
Governor  or  State  authority  and  their  suc- 
cessors in  office  for  the  uses  therein  respec- 
tively expressed,  and  may  be  sued  for  and 
recovered  accordingly ;  and  all  the  estate  of 
property,  real,  4)ersonal,  or  mixed,  and  all 
judgments,  bonds,  specialties,  choses  in  ac- 
tion, and  claims  and  debts  of  whatsoever  des- 
cription of  the  Territory  of  Minnesota,  shall 
inure  to  and  vest  in  the  State  of  Minnesota, 
and  may  be  sued  for  and  recovered  in  the 
same  manner  and  to  the  same  extent  by  the 
State  of  Minnesota  as  the  same  could  have 
been  by  the  Territory  of  Minnesota.  All 
criminal  prosecutions  and  penal  actions  which 
may  have  arisen  or  which  may  arise  before  the 
change  from  a  Territorial  to  a  State  govern- 
ment, and  which  shall  then  bo  pending,  shall 
be  prosecuted  to  judgment  and  execution  in 
the  name  of  the  State.  AH  offences  committed 
against  the  laws  of  the  Territory  of  Minnesota 
before  the  change  from  a  Territorial  to  a  State 
government  and  which  shall  not  be  prosecuted 


before  such  change  may  be  prosecuted  in  the 
name  and  by  the  authority  of  the  State  of  Min- 
nesota with  Uke  effect  as  though  such  change 
had  not  taken  place,  and  all  penalties  incurred 
shall  remain  the  same  as  if  this  Constitution 
had  not  been  adopted.  All  actions  at  law  and 
suits  in  equity  which  may  be  pending  in  any 
of  the  courts  of  the  Territory  of  Minnesota  at 
the  time  of  the  change  from  a  Territorial  to  a 
State  government  may  be  continued  and  trans- 
ferred to  any  court  of  the  State  which  shall 
have  jurisdiction  of  the  subject  matter  thereof. 

Sec.  5.  All  Territorial  officers,  civil  and 
mihtary,  now  holding  their  offices  under  the 
authority  of  the  United  States,  or  of  the  Ter- 
ritory of  Minnesota,  shall  continue  to  hold  and 
exercise  their  respective  offices  until  they  shall 
be  superseded  by  the  authority  of  the  State. 

Sec  6.  The  first  session  of  the  Legislature 
of  the  State  of  Minnesota  shall  commence  on 
the  first  Wednesday  of  December  next,  and 
shall  be  held  at  theCapitol  in  the  city  of  St.  Paul. 

Sec  7.  The  laws  regulating  the  election 
and  quahfication  of  all  district,  county  and  pre- 
cinct officers  shall  continue  and  be  in  force  until 
the  Legislatru*e  shall  otherwise  provide  by  law. 

Sec  8.  The  President  of  the  Convention 
shall,  immediately  after  the  adjournment  there- 
of, cause  this  Constitution  to  be  deposited  in 
the  office  of  the  Governor  of  the  Territory ; 
and  if  after  the  submission  of  the  same  to  a 
vote  of  the  people,  as  hereinafter  provided,  it 
shall  appear  that  it  has  been  adopted  by  a 
vote  of  the  people  of  the  State,  then  the  Gov- 
ernor shall  forward  a  certified  copy  of  the 
same  together  with  an  abstract  of  the  votes 
polled  for  and  against  the  said  Constitution,  to 
the  President  of  the  United  States,  to  be  by  him 
laid  before  the  Congress  of  the  United  States. 

Sec  9.  For  the  purposes  of  the  first  elec- 
tion the  State  shall  constitute  one  district,  and 
shall  elect  three  members  to  the  House  of 
Representatives  of  the  United  Sates. 

Sec  10.  For  the  purposes  of  the  first  elec- 
tion for  members  of  the  State  Senate  and  the 
House  of  Representatives,  the  State  shall  be 
divided  into  senatorial  and  representative  dis- 
tricts as  follows,  viz :  first  district,  Washing- 
ton county  ;  second  district,  Ramsey  coimty  ; 
third  district,  Dakota  county  ;  fourth  district, 
so'much  of  Hennepin  county  as  lies  west  of 
the  Mississippi ;  fifth  district,  Rice  county ; 
sixth  district,  Goodhue  county  ;  seventh  dis- 


618 


APPENDIX. 


trict,  Scott  county ;  eighth  district,  Olmsted 
county ;  ninth  district,  Fillmore  county  ;  tenth 
district,  Houston  county;  eleventh  district, 
"Winona  county ;  twelfth  district,  Wabashaw 
county ;  thirteenth  district,  Mower  and  Dodge 
counties;  fourteenth  district,  Freeborn  and 
Faribault  counties;  fifteenth  district,  Steele 
and  Waseca  counties ;  sixteenth  district.  Blue 
Earth  and  Lesueur  counties  ;  seventeenth  dis- 
trict, Nicollet  and  Brown  counties ;  eighteenth 
district,  Sibley,  Renville,  and  McLeod  coun- 
ties; nineteenth  district  Carver  and  Wright 
counties;  twentieth  district,  Benton,  Stearns 
and  Meeker  counties;  twenty-first  district, 
Morrison,  Crow  Wing  and  Mille  Lac  counties ; 
twenty-second  district,  Cass,  Pembina  and 
Todd  counties ;  twenty -third  district,  so  much 
of  Hennepin  county  as  lies  east  of  the  Missis- 
sippi ;  twenty-fourth  district,  Sherburne,  An- 
oka and  Manomin  counties ;  twenty -fifth  dis- 
trict, Chisago,  Pine  and  Isanti  counties ;  twen- 
ty-sixth district,  Buchanan,  Carlton,  St.  Louis, 
Lake  and  Itasca  counties. 

Sec.  11.  The  counties  of  Brown,  Steams, 
Todd,  Cass,  Pembina  and  Renville,  as  applied 
in  the  preceding  section,  shall  not  be  deemed 
to  include  any  Territory  west  of  the  State 
line,  but  shall  be  deemed  to  include  all  coun- 
ties and  parts  of  counties  east  of  said  line  as 
were  created  out  of  the  Territory  of  either,  at 
the  last  session  of  the  Legislature. 

Sec.  12.  The  senators  and  representatives 
at  the  first  election  shall  be  apportioned  among 
the  several  senatorial  and  representative  dis- 
tricts as  follows,  to  wit : 


Ist  District, . . 

.     2  Senators... 

.      8 

Elepre'tives 

2d 

" 

.     3 

'• 

.      6 

" 

8d 

<< 

.     2 

(< 

.      5 

" 

4th 

" 

.     2 

" 

.      4 

" 

5th 

" 

.     2 

<< 

.      8 

i( 

6th 

" 

.     1 

<< 

.      4 

" 

7th 

<< 

.     1 

(< 

.      8 

" 

8th 

" 

.     2 

" 

.      4 

" 

9th 

" 

.     2 

" 

.      6 

(< 

10th 

'» 

.     2 

" 

.      3 

'< 

11th 

" 

.     2 

(< 

.      4 

<< 

12th 

<< 

.     1 

i< 

.      3 

" 

13th 

" 

.     2 

i< 

.      3 

" 

14th 

" 

" 

.      8 

(( 

15th 

" 

" 

.      4 

<( 

16th 

<( 

" 

.      3 

" 

17th 

<( 

"        . . . 

.      3 

" 

18th 

<< 

(( 

.      3 

<( 

19th 

<i 

<< 

.      8 

<< 

20th 

" 

i< 

.      8 

" 

2l8t 

K 

" 

.      1 

" 

22d 

"               .  .  . 

a 

.      1 

" 

23d 

« 

« 

2 

<< 

24th 

<< 

<< 

.      1 

" 

26th 

l< 

<< 

1 

<i 

26th 

« 

i< 

1 

(< 

87 


80 


Sec.  1?.  The  returns  fi-om  the  twenty- 
second  District  shall  be  made  to  and  can- 
vassed by  the  judges  of  election  at  the  pre- 
cinct of  Otter  Tail  City. 

Sec.  14.  Until  the  Legislature  shall  other- 
wise provide,  the  State  shall  be  divided  into 
Judicial  Districts,  as  follows  : 

The  counties  of  Washington,  Chisago,  Ma- 
nomin, Anoka,  Pine,  Buchanan,  Carlton,  St. 
Louis  and  Lake,  shall  constitute  thefirst  Ju- 
dicial District. 

The  county  of  Ramsey  shall  constitute  the 
second  Judicial  District. 

The  counties  of  Houston,  Winona,  Fillmore, 
Olmsted  and  Wabashaw  shall  constitute  the 
Third  Judicial  District. 

The  counties  of  Hennepin,  Carver,  Wright, 
Meeker,  Sherburne,  Benton,  Stearns,  Morri- 
son, Crow  Wing,  Mille  Lac,  Itasca,  Pembina, 
Todd  and  Cass  shall  constitute  the  Fourth  Ju- 
dicial District. 

The  counties  of  Dakota,  Goodhue,  Scott 
Rice,  Steele,  Waseca,  Dodge,  Mower  and 
Freeborn  shall  constitute  the  Fifth  Judicial 
District. 

The  counties  of  Le  Seuer,  Sibley,  Nicollet, 
Blue  Earth,  Faribault,  McLeod,  Renville, 
Brown,  and  all  other  counties  in  the  State  not 
included  within  the  other  districts  shall  con- 
stitute the  Sixth  Judicial  District. 

Sec.  15.  Each  of  the  foregoing  enumera- 
ted Judicial  Districts,  may,  at  the  first  elec- 
tion, Select  one  Prosecuting  Attorney  for  the 
District. 

Sec  16.  Upon  the  second  Tuesday,  the 
thirteenth  day  of  October,  l§a7,  an  election 
shall  be  held  for  members  of  the  House  of 
Representatives  of  the  United  States,  Gover- 
nor, Lieutenant  Governor,  Supreme  and  Dis- 
trict Judges,  and  Members  of  the  Legislature, 
and  all  other  oflBcers  designated  in  this  Con- 
stitution, and  also  for  the  submission  of  this 
Constitution  to  the  people  for  their  adoption 
or  rejection. 

Sec  17.  Upon  the  day  so  designated  as 
aforesaid,  every  free  white  male  inhabitant 
over  the  age  of  twenty-one  years,  who  shall 
have  resided  within  the  limits  of  the  State 
for  ten  days  previous  to  the  day  of  said 
election,  may  vote  for  all  officers  to  be  elected 
under  this  Constitution  at  such  election,  and 
also  for  or  against. the  adoption  of  this  Consti- 
tution. 


APPENDIX. 


619 


Sec.  18.  In  voting  for  or  against  the 
adoption  of  this  Constitution,  the  words 
"For  Constitution,"  or  "Against  Constitu- 
tion," may  be  written  or  printed  on  the  ticket 
of  each  voter,  but  no  voter  shall  vote  for  or 
against  this  Constitution  on  a  separate  ballot 
from  that  cast  by  him  for  oflBcers  to  be  elected 
»at  said  election  under  this  Constitution  ;  and 
mf  upon  the  canvass  of  the  votes  so  polled,  it 
shall  appear  that  there  was  a  greater  number 
of  votes  polled  for,  than  against  said  Consti- 
tution, then  this  Constitution  shall  be  deemed 
to  be  adopted  as  the  Constitution  of  the  State 
of  Minnesota;  and  all  the  provisions  and 
obligations  of  this  Constitution,  and  of  the 
Schedule  hereunto  attached,  shall  thereafter 
be  valid  to  all  intents  and  purposes  as  the 
Constitution  of  said  State. 

Sec.  19.  At  said  election  the  polls  shall 
be  opened,  the  election  held,  rebirns  made 
and  certificates  issued,  in  all  respect  as  pro- 
vided by  law  for  opening,  closing,  and  con- 
ducting elections,  and  making  returns  of  the 
same,  except  as  hereinbefore  specified,  and 
excepting  also  that  polls  may  be  opened  and 
elections  held  at  any  point  or  points,  in  any 
of  the  counties  where  precincts  may  be  estab- 
lished as  provided  by  law,  ten  days  previous 
to  the  day  of  election,  not  less  than  ten  miles 
from  the  place  of  voting  in  any  established 
precinct. 

Sec.  20.  It  shall  be  the  duty  of  the  judges 
and  clerks  of  election,  in  addition  to  the 
returns  required  by  law  from  each  precinct, 
to  forward  to  the  Secretary  of  the  Territory 
by  mail  immediately  after  the  close  of  the 
election,  a  certified  copy  of  the  poU  book, 
containing  the  name  of  each  person  who  has 
voted  in  the  precinct,  and  the  number  of  votes 
polled  for  each  person  for  any  office,  and  the 
votes  polled  for  or  against  the  adoption  of  the 
Constitution. 

Sec.  21.  The  returns  of  said  election  for 
and  against  this  Constitution,  and  for  all 
state  officers  and  members  of  the  House  o^ 
Representatives  of  the  United  States,  shall 
be  made  and  certificates  issued  in  the  man- 
ner now  prescribed  bylaw  for  returning  votes 
given  for  Delegate  to  Congress,  and  the  re- 
turns for  all  district  officers,  judicial,  legisla- 
tive or  otherwise,  shall  be  made  to  the  regis- 
ter of  deeds  of  the  senior  county  in  each 
district,  in  the  manner  prescribed  bv    law, 


except  as  otherwise  provided.  The  returns 
for  all  officers  elected  at  large  shall  be  can- 
vassed by  the  Governor  of  the  Territory  as- 
sisted by  Joseph  R.  Bbowx  and  Thomas  J. 
Galbbaith,  at  the  time  designated  by  law  for 
canvassing  the  vote  for  Delegate  to  Congress. 
Sec.  22.  If  upon  canvassing  the  votes  for 
and  against  the  adoption  of  this  Constitution, 
it  shall  appear  that  there  has  been  polled  a 
greater  number  of  votes  against  than  for  it, 
then  no  certificates  of  election  shall  be  issued 
for  any  state  or  district  officer  provided  for 
in  this]Constitution,  and  no  State  organization 
shall  have  validity  within  the  limits  of  the 
Territory  until  otherwise  provided  for,  and 
until  a  Constitution  for  a  State  Govermnent 
shall  have  been  adopted  by  the  people. 

Done  in  ConTcntion  this  twenty-ninth  daj  of 
August,  one  thousand  eight  hundred  and  fifty- 
seven,  and  of  the  Independence  of  the  United 
States  the  eighty-second  year.  In  witness 
whereof,  we  have  hereunto  subscribed  our  names, 
at  the  Capitol,  in  the  City  of  St.  Paul,  this 
twenty-ninth  day  of  August,  in  the  year  of  our 
Lord  one  thousand  eight  hundred  and  fifty- 
seven. 

St.  a.  D.  BALCOMBE, 
Prtsident  of  the  Constitutional  Convention. 
Bexj.  C.  Baldwin,       Joseph  Peckham, 
D.  M.  Hall,  Geobge  Watsos, 

RoBEBT  Ltlb,  Chables  F.  Lowe, 

S.  A.  Kemp,  P.  A.  Cedebstam, 

William  F.  Russell,  Chables  B.  Sheldox. 
N.  B.  Robbixs,  Jb.,      David  Mobgan, 
Simeon  Habdlng,         James  A.  McCasn, 
W.  H.  C.  FoLSOM,        John  A.  Andebson, 
"Wentwobth  Hayden,  A.  H.  Butleb, 

D.  L.  King,  Chables  Hanson, 
T.  D.  Smith,  Chables  A.  Coe, 
Edwin  Page  Davis,     David  A.  Secombe, 
Thomas  Wilson,  John  Cleghorn, 

E.  N.  Bates,  Alanson  B.  Vaughn. 
John  H.  Mubpht,         Henbt  Eschlie, 
Thomas  Bolles,           Cybus  Aldrich, 

D.  D.  Dickebson,  F.  Ayeb, 

Thomas  Fosteb,  Albebt  W.  Coombs. 

Le^vis  M'Kune,  Thos  J.  GALBBArrn, 

W.  J.  DuLET,  H.  W.  Hollet, 

R.  L.  Babtholomew,  B.  E.  Messeb, 

N.  P.  CoLBUBN,  W.  H.  Mills, 

H.  A.  Billings,  John  W.  Nobth, 

Aabon  G.  Hudson,  Oscar  F.  Perkins. 

Chables  Gebbish,  Samuel  W.  Putnam. 

Frank  Mantob,  L.  K.  Stannabd. 

Amos  Coggswell,  C.  W.  Thompson, 

Chas.  McClube,  L.  C.  Walker, 

BovD  Phelps,  Philip  Wlnell. 

Attest:    L.  A.  Babcock, 
Secretary  of  the  ConstUvtional  Conveniion. 


VOTE  UPON  THE   CONSTITUTION. 


Counties. 


Anoka, 

Benton, 

Blue  Earth, 

Brown, 

Carver 

Cass, 

Chisago, 

Cottonwood,  - 

Crow  Wing, 

Dakota, 

Davis, 

Dodge, 

Faribault, 

Fillmore, 

Freeborn, 

Goodhue, 

Hennepin, 

Houston, 

Isanti, 

Lake, 

Le  Sueur, 

Manomin, 

Martin, 

McLeod, 

Meeker, 

Mi  He  Lac, 

Morrison, 

Mower, 

Murray, 

Nicollet, 

Olmsted, 

Pembina, 

Pierce, 

Pine, 

Ramsey, 

Renville, 

Rice, 

Rock, 

Scott, 

Sherburne, 

Sibley, 

Stearns, 

Steele, 

St.  Louis, 

Todd, 

Wabashaw,     - 

Waseca, 

Washington,  - 

Winona, 

Wright, 

Total, 


Canvasskbs' 

Precinot 

Return. 

Returns. 

For. 

Ag'st. 

For. 

Ag'st. 

477 

10 

477 

10 

295 

3 

295 

3 

1,090 

29 

"488 

488 

845 

""'5 

845 

"   "5 

126 

5 

'•600 

600 

73 

""'3 

"96 

■"i 

96 

1 

2,010 

6 

2,041 
35 

6 

812 

"ie 

'2i9 

"'2 

219 

2 

1,874 

60 

1,874 

60 

635 

3 

635 

3 

1,810 

12 

1,810 

12 

3,662 

70 

3,662 

70 

1,188 

8 

1,188 

8 

19 

19 

86 

6 

•  'm 

"87 

819 

87 

113 

113 
31 

"206 

220 

194 

*"i 

194 

'"i 

11 

9 

11 

9 

304 

9 

804 

9 

639 

14 

656 
66 

14 

958 

""io 

l',343 

"'ii 

1,629 

13 

313 

313 
25 

"'56 

50 

2,567 

""'4 

3,608 
119 

"'"8 

1^798 

"i4 

1,798 

37 

1,393 

"u 

'943 

'  "9 

"ii 

94 

94 

668 

'"io 

663 

"io 

354 

14 

354 

14 

C13 

69 

624 

69 

93 

44 

"i62 

"ii 

102 

11 

583 

10 

889 

10 

609 

84 

509 

34 

1,662 

25 

1,875 

26 

1,362 

8 

1,621 

15 

605 

52 

605 

52 

30,055  '    571  '  86,240 


700 


Note. — The  vote  under  ttie  beading  of  the  Canvassers'  Return  is  the  official  count  as  declared  by  the  Board  of 
Oanvauers  designated  in  the  Scliedule.  Their  return  was  made  tj])  from  the  returns  of  the  Register,  wlio,  in  several 
Instances,  failed  to  return  the  vote  for  and  against  the  Constitution.  The  vote  under  the  heading  of  I'rccinct  Returns 
embraces  the  whole  vote  of  the  State  upon  the  Constitution,  and  is  compiled  from  tlie  Precinct  Returns  in  the  Secre 
tary's  office  so  far  as  they  were  received ;  and  where  these  returns  have  failed  to  shew  the  full  vote,  the  Register's 
Canvass  has  been  taken. 


ANALYTICAL  INDEX 


CONSTITUTION  OF  MINNESOTA. 


Absence,  when  not  to  affect  residence  for 

^purpose  of  voting, 
Actions,  Penal  and  Civil,  on  bonds,  recog- 
nizances, forfeiture,  &c.,  to  vest  in  the 
State,  -  Schedule 

Adjournment,  power  on  each  house  on, 

Bills  not  to  be  passed  on  day  of, 
Allodial,  all  lauds  declared  to  be, 
Amendments  to  Constitution,  mode  of  mak- 
ing. 
Mode  of  revising  of  same 
Appointments,   State    Librarian,  Notaries 
Public,  Commissioners,  etc.,  how  made 
To  fill  vacancies  in  offices, 
Of  Reporter  of  Supreme  Court,  and  va- 
cancy m  ofiice  ot  Clerk  of  same. 
Apportionment,  for  Legislative  and  Con- 
gressional purposes,  when  to  be  made. 
For  Congressional,  at  first  electior, 

SCHEDUBE 

For  Legislative,  at  first  election, Schedule 
Army,  standing,  in  time  of  peace,  prohib- 
ited, 
Attainder,  bill  of  prohibited. 
Attorney  General,  an  executive  oflBcer, 
how  chosen. 
Term  of  office,  salary  of  first  term. 
Auditor  of  State,  an  executive  officer,  how 
chosen. 
Term  of  office,  salary  of  first  term, 
Bail,  shall  not  be  excessive. 

All  persons  entitled  to,  exception, 
Ballot,  all  elections  to  be  by,  exception, 
Banks,  property  of,  how  taxed. 
Public  funds  not  to  be  deposited  in. 
Law  for  chartering  may  be  enacted,  with 
certain  restrictions, 
Bills,  rules  reOTilating  passage  of, 
To  be  signed  by  presiding  officer  of  each 

house. 
Penalty  of  refusal  to  sign, 
How  certified  to  Governor  in  such  case. 
Not  to  be  passed  on  day  of  adjournment, 
construction  of  this  rale, 


Art. 

Sff. 

7 

3 

4 

4 

6 

4 

22 

1 

15 

14 

1 

14 

2 

5 

4 

5 

4 

6 

2 

4 

23 

9 

12 

1 

14 

1 

11 

5 

1 

5 

5 

5 

1 

5 

5 

1 

5 

1 

7 

7 

6 

9 

4 

9 

12 

9 

13 

4 

20 

4 

21 

4 

21 

4 

21 

4    22 


Bonds  of  State.  See  State  Debt. 
Boundary  of  State,  how  defined. 
Bribery,  disqualification  of  persons  convic 

ted  of. 
Census,  to  be  taken  in  1865,  and  every  ten 

years  thereafter,  -  -  4 

Church,  not  to  be  supported  by  State,  1 

Property  of,  not  exempt  from  taxation,      9 
Citizens,  rights  of,  (see  Elective  Franchise)  15 
Cities,  when  may  be  organized  as  counties  11 
Clerk,  of  Supreme  Court,  how  elected,  term 
of  office,  vacancy  in,  -  6 

of  Probate  Court,  -  -6 

of  District  Court,  -  -  6 

Commissioners  of  Deeds,  how  appointed,         5 
Congress,  members,  three  to  be  elected. 
State  one  district,         -  Schedule 

Constitution,  mode  of  amending,        -  14 

Mode  of  Revising,  -  14 

To  be  deposited  in  office  of   Governor, 
Schedule 
A  certified  copy  to  be  sent  to  the  Presi- 
dent of  the  United  States,  if  adopted, 
Schedule 
Shall  be  submitted  to  vote  of  people. 
Schedule 
Mode  of  voting  on,        -  Schedule 

Effect  of,  if  adopted  -       Schedulb 

Effect  of,  if  not  adopted.  Schedule 

Contracts,  obligations  of  not  to  be  impaired. 
Corporations,    definition    of,    rights   and 
privileges  of. 
Restrictions,  exception. 
Liability  of  stockholders  in. 
How  lands  may  be  taken  for  use  of. 
Duties  as  common  carriers. 
Courts,  (see  Supreme,  District  and  Probaie 
Courts)  pleadings  and  proceedings  in. 
Successors  of  Territorial  Courts,  Schedule 
Court  Commssioner,  jurisdiction,  who  may 

be. 
Counties,  provisions  for  forming  and  chang- 
ing, seats  of  justice  in,  etc.  -  11 
Citieg  may  be  organized  as  counties,         11 


2      1 

4    15 


16 
18 
18 
22 
1    11 


0  1 

0  2 

0  3 

0  4 

0  4 

6    14 
4 

6    15 

1 
2 


622 


APPENDIX. 


Counties,  election  of  officers, 

Powers  of  local  taxation, 

How  money  may  be  drawn  from  treasury, 

Territory  west  of  State  line,     Schedule 
Crimes,  rights  of  persons  charged  with. 

Same  subject. 

Conviction  of,  not  to  work  corruption  of 
blood  or  forfeiture  of  estate. 

Disqualification  of  persons  convicted  ot 
certain, 

Same  subject, 
Debt,  imprisonment  for,  prohibited,  except 
for  fraud  in  contractmg  same. 

Of  State,  limits  of,  manner  of  contract- 
ing, etc. 
jyistrict  Courts,  how  composed,  number  of 
Judges,  how  chosen,  term  of  office. 

Jurisdiction,  etc. 

Qualification   of  Judges,  compensation 
not  to  be  diminished, 

Judges  ineligible  to  other  officers,  votes 
cast  for  void — exception. 

Change  of  district  not  to  vacate  office  of 
Judge, 

Clerk  of,  elective,  etc. 
Districts,    for     Congressional     purposes. 
Schedule 

For  Legislative  purposes.  Schedule 

Twenty-second  District,  vote  of,  where 
and  by  whom  to  be  canvassed.  Schedule 

For  judicial  purposes,  Schedule 

Each  judicial,  may  elect  a  Prosecuting 
Attorney,  -  Schedule 

Divorces,   Legislature    prohibited    from 
granting, 

Education.    See  ScJiool  Fund. 

Election,  to  fill  vacancy  in  Legislature, 

Contested, 

By  Legislature,  to  be  viva  voce,  etc. 

Of  executive  officers,  to  whom  returns 
made,  and  by  whom  canvassed,  etc. 

Election,  on  day  of,  arrests  in  civil  cases 
prohibited. 

All  to  be  by  ballot,  exception, 

Laws  of  continued  in  force,      Schedule 

When  held  for  voting  on  Constitution 
and  election  of  State  officers,  Schedule 

Manner  of  conducting,  returns  how  made, 
precincts  of,  exception,        '  Schedule 

Duties  of  officers  of,        -  Schedule 

Provisions  relating  to  returns  of  the  first 
election,  who  to  canvass  votes  for  of- 
ficers at  large,  -  Schedule 
Electors,  qualifications  of,  four  classes, 

Persons  disqualified  from  being, 

Residence  of  not  affected  by  absence, 

Privileged  from  arrest. 

Who  may  vote  at  first  election.  Schedule 
Embezzlement,  of  public  funds,  what  consti- 
tutes declarea  a  felony, 
Enabling  Act,  accepted,  etc. 
Executive  Department  of  what  offices  com- 
posed, and  how  chosen. 

Terms  of  office,  when  to  commence  and 
end. 

Members  of  to  take  oath  of  office, 
Exemption,  of  property  from  sale,  a  certain 

amount  to  do  determined  by  law, 
Expost  facto  Laws,  prohibited. 
Fines,  excessive,  shall  not  be  imposed. 

Accruing  to  Territory,  to  inuro  to  State, 
Schedule 
Government,  object  of, 

Distribution  of  powers  of  Government,— 
prohibition. 
Governor,  head  of  Executive  department, 

To  approve  of  all  lawSj 

To  issue  writs  of  election  to  fill  vacancies 
in  Legislature, 

To  be  onosen  by  electors  of  State, 


Art.  Sec. 

11      4 


1     12 


6  12 
6     13 

9 
10 

13 
14 

15 

4    28 

4  17 
4  17 
4    30 


7      5 
7      6 

7 

16 

19 
20 


6    10 
1      7 


Art.   Sec. 

Governor,  term  of  office  and  qualifications  of,  5      3 

To  communicate  by  message  to  Legisla- 
ture at  each  session  the  condition  of 
the  State,  etc.  -  5      4 

Shall  be  Commander-in-Chief  of,  and  call 
out  militia,  etc.  -  5      4 

May  require  opinion  of  other  Executive 
o'fficers  on  subjects  relating  to  their 
departments,  -  -  5      4 

May  grant  reprieves  and  pardons,  ex- 
ception, -  •  5      4 

With  Senate,  may  appoint  State  Librari- 
an and  Notaries  Public, 

May  appoint  Commissioners  of  Deeds, 

Has  negative  on  laws. 

May  convene  Legislature 

Shall  see  that  the  Laws  are  executed. 

May  appoint,  to  till  vacancies  in  certain 
offices. 

Salary  of  first  term. 

Vacancy  in  office,  office  to  devolve  on 
Lieut.  Governor, 

To  appoint  to  fill  vacancy  in  office  of  any 
Judge, 
Habeas  corpus,   shall  not   be    suspended, 

exception, 
Historical  Society  of  Minnesota.    See  Seat 

of  Government. 
ImpeacTiment,  House  of  Representatives  has 
sole  power  of. 

Shall  be  tried  by  Senate, 

Who  liable  to. 

Extent  of  judgment  on, 

Liability,  to  other  punishment. 

Person  impeached  forbidden  to  exercise 
duties  ot  office  before  acquittal. 

Of  Governor,  Lieutenant  Governor  not 
to  sit  on  trial. 

Copy  of,  to  be  served  on  person  before 
trial, 
Judiciary  Department,  powers  of  vested  in 

certain  courts,  (see  Cou?'ts) 
Judges,  other  than  those  provided  for  in 
this  Constitution,  how  elected,  term  of 
office, 

Vacancy  in  office  of,  to  be  filled   by  ap- 
pointment by  Governor, 
Judicial  Districts,  six  created, 

Changes  in,  not  to  vacate  the  office  of 
any  Judge, 
Jurisdiction  of  State,  concurrent  on  waters 

forming  common  boundary, 
Jury,  rights  of  trial  by  secured,  but  may 
be  waived. 


4 

14 

4 

14 

13 

1 

13 

1 

13 

1 

13 


13 
13 


6 


No  trial  by  in  Supreme  Court, 
Justices  of  the  Peace,  number  to  be  elected 
in  each  county,  term  of  office,  compen- 
sation, jurisdiction, — prohibition, 
Judge  of  Irobatc,  election  of,  tei  in  of  office, 
jurisdiction,  powers  and  duties. 

May  be  Court  Commissioner, 
Lands,  all  allodial,  feudal  tenures  prohib- 
ited. 

Leases  of  agricultural,  in  certain  cases 
void. 

Of  individuals,  how  taken  for  use  of  cor- 
porations. 
Laws. — expost  fa^to,  impairing  the  obliga- 
tions of  contracts,  and  bills  of  attain- 
der prohibited, 

Must  be  approved  by  Governor 

How  passea  over  Governor's  veto, 

llow  oills  to  become  laws  without  ap- 
proval of  Governor, 

Style  of, 

Must  be  past  by  majority  elected  to  both 
Houses, 

Each  law  to  embrace  but  one  subject, 
expressed  in  title^ 

To  organize  Executive  department, 


6    12 


1    15 
1    15 


10    4 


1 

11 

4 

11 

4 

11 

4 

11 

4 

13 

4 

18 

4 

27 

5 

0 

APPENDIX 


628 


Sec 

11 

12 

2 

7 

1 
1 

2 
2 


4 

6 

4 

7 

4 

8 

4 

9 

4 

10 

4 

12 

4 

11 

4 

12 

4 

13 

4 

17 

LoMis,  receipts  and  expenditures  be  publish- 
ed with  laws,  -  -  9 

Shall  be  passed  for  safe  keeping  of  public 
moneys,  -  -  9 

Of  Territorv,  to  remain  in  force,  if  not 
inconsistent  with  Const' n.      Schkdct^ 

Territorial  election,  continued  in  force, 

SCHEDULB 

Ltgislative  Department,  \jQvxya&\%\.  of  Sen- 
ate and  House  of  Representatives,  4 
To  meet  at  seat  of  government,  times  of 
^  meeting  to  be  prescribed  by  law,  4 
Number  of  members  prescribed  by  law,  4 
Apportionment  and  ratio  of  i  epresenta'n.  4 
Each  house  to  judge  of  election  ratums 

and  eligibility  of  its  own  membeiS,         4 
A  quorum  to  do  business,  -  4 

Each  house  to  determine  its  rules,  4 

Punishment  and  expulsion  of  members,     4 
Each  house  to  elect  its  own  oflBcers  (ex- 
cept President  of  Senate),  and  to  keep 
and  publish  a  Journal,  on  which  yeas 
and  nays  (when  taken)  shall  be  entered,    4 
Neither  House  to  adjourn  for  more  than 
three  days  without  consent  of  other  etc. 
Pay  of  members,  not  to  be  increased,  etc. 
Members    of,    privileged    from   arrest, 

exception, 
Members  of,  to  hold  no  other  office  except 

as  Postmaster, 
Revenue  bills  to  originate  in  House, 
Of  Governor's  veto,  etc. 
Further  provisions  relat'g  to  veto  power. 
All  money  to  be  appropriated  by  bill, 
Style  of  laws,  how  passed. 
Vacancies  how  filled,  contested  seats, 
Disorderly  persons,  not  members,  how 

punishe'd,  -  -  4    18 

Sessions  of  each  House  to  be  open  except 

when  secrecy  requires,  -  4    19 

Bills  to  be  read  on  three  difierent  days  in 

each    House,    and    twice  at  length, 

before  passage, 

Of  the  signing  of  bills  by  presiding  ofBcer 

of  eachH'se,  penalty  ot  refusal  to  sign. 

Bills  not  to  be  passed  on  day  fixed  for 

adjournment. 
Qualification  of  members, 
To  elect  United  States  Senators, 
Legislative  Department.to  take  oath  of  office 
All  elections  by,  to  be  viva  voce. 
First  session,  when  held,  Scheditlb 

Librarian  of  State,  how  appointed. 
Lieutenant  Governor,  an  executive  officer, 
when  and  how  elected. 
Term  of  office,  qualifications, 
Exrofficio  President  of  Senate,  when  to 

act  as  Governor, 
Compensation  of,  when  office  vacated 

how  filled,         .  .  .        .  _ 

Not  to  sit  on  trial  of  impeachment  of  Gov.  13 
Lotteries,  Legislature  not  to  authorize,  4 

Militia,  Legislature  pass  laws  to  organize,   12 
Military, 9,hA\  be  subordinato  to  civilpow'r.     ' 
Municipal  Corporations,  how  created. 
Money,  shall  onlj-  be  appropriated  by  bill, 
Shall  be  specifically  applied,  , 

Not  to  be  paid  out  except  appropriated 

by  law,  .... 

Statement  of  receipts  and  expenditures 

to  be  published  annually. 
Public,  not  to  be  exchanged  for  other 
funds,  or  deposited  in  banks,  (see  £m- 
bezzlement). 
Paid  out  by  authority  of  law. 
Navigable  Waters,  free, 
Name  of  State,        .... 
Notaries  Public,  how  appointed, 
Oath,  form  of,  for  members  and  officers  of 

Legislature,  .         .  .  .        4    29 


4 

20 

4 

21 

4 

22 

4 

25 

4 

26 

4 

29 

4 

30 

6 

5 

4 

5 

1 

5 

3 

5 

6 

5 

6 

13 

4 

4 

31 

12 

1 

1 

14 

10 

2 

4 

12 

9 

8 

9 

9 

9 

11 

9 

12 

11 

6 

2 

2 

2 

1 

5 

4 

7 

7 

7 

15 

14 


Oath,  form  of,  for  other  public  officers,      -      5    8 
At  elections,  to  be  unifurm,  etc.        .  15    3 

Office,  all  electors  eligible  to,  exception,         7      7 
Cause  of  removal  from,        .  .  13      1 

Same  subject,        .  .  .        .       13      2 

Duties  of,  not  to  be  exercised  after  im- 
peachment before  acquittal,         .  13      3 
Perjury,   disqualification  of  persons  con- 
victed of,          .           .           .          .         4    15 
Power,  political,  inherent  in  people,         .       1      1 
President  pro  tern,  of  Senate,  when  to  act 

as  Lieutenant  Governor,  .  .56 

Press,  liberty  of  secured,  .  .13 

Pleadings,  in  the  Courts,  to  be  under  direc- 
tion of  Legislature,  .  .  6    14 
Probate  Court,  to  be  established  in  each 
organized  county,  to  be  a  Court  of 
Record,                .            .                .6 
Judge  of.  Clerk  of,  how  chosen,          .         6 
Jurisdiction  of,            ...           6 
Judge  of,  may  be  Court  Opnunissioner,      6 
Process,  style  of,           ...            6 
Property,  of  persons,  not  to  be  taken  for 

public  use,  without  compensation,  1    13 

Same,  compensation  made  if  taken  by 

corporations,  .  .  .         10      4 

Of  Territory,  to  vest  in  State,  Schedule  4 

Protest,  right  of,  secured  to  members  of 

Legislature,  ,         .        .         .         .         4    16 
Proseeutinq  Attorney,  each  judicial  district 

may  elect  one,        .        .        Schedule         15 
Punishment,  not  to  be  cruel  or  unusual,  1      o 

No  person  to  be  put  in  jeopardy  twice  for 

the  same  offence,        .  ..17 

Of  disorderly  persons  in  session  of  Legis- 
lature, .  .  .  .  4    13 
Quorum,   a   majority  of  each    House  of 

Legislature  constituted,  ..43 

Power  of  a  less  number,  .  .43 

Religion,  freedom  of,  secured,  .  1    16 

Licentiousness  in,  not  allowed,  .         1    16 

Not  a  test,  as  a  qualification  for  office  or 

of  an  elector,  .  .  .        1    17 

Opinion  on,  not  to  disqualify  any  person 

as  a  witness,         .         .  .  .        1    17 

Property  of  societies  of,  exempt  from 

taxation,        ....  .93 

Reporter  of  Supreme   Court,  by  whom 

appointed,        .        .  ...        6      2 

Representation,  how  apportioned,  ratio  of,    4      2 
R^esentatives,   (see    Legislative    Depart- 
ment) how  chosen,  term  of  office,  4    24 
Residence,  for  purpose  of  voting,  what  not 
to  eflFect, 
Who  do  not  acquire, 
Revenne,  bills  shall  originate  in  House,  bat 

Senate  may  amend,    . 
Rights,  political,  secured, 
Natural,  secured. 
To  property,  character,  etc.. 
Unreasonable  searches  and  seizures  pro- 
hibited. 
Enumeration  of,  not  to  impair  others  re- 
tained by  the  people. 
Existing,  not  to  be  afiected,        Scheditlb. 
Salaries,  of  members  of  Legislature, 
Of  executive  officers. 
Of  Lieutenant  Governor, 
Of  Judges   of    Supreme   and    District 

Courts,  not  to  be  diminished. 
Of  Probate  Judges, 
Of  Clerk  of  District  Court,  ■     . 

Of  Justice  of  the  Peace, 
Seal  of  State,  provisions  relating  to 
Seat  of  Government,  provisions  relating  to  15 
Senators  {see  Legislative  Pepa rt men  f)  how 
chosen,  term  of  office,  etc.. 
Of  United  States,  how  chosen. 
Secretary  of  State,  an  executive  officer,  how 
chosen. 


3 

4 

10 

1 

2 

8 

10 

16 

. 

1 

7 

5 

5 

5 

6 

6 

6 

6 

7 

6 

13 

6 

8 

.5 

4 

15 

1 

4 

24 

4 

26 

624 


APPENDIX. 


Secretary  of  State,  term  of  office,  salary, 
ScJiools,  etc.,  duty  of  Legislature  to  establish, 

Of  lands  for  use  of,  and  concerning  the 
school  fund, 

Of  taxes  to  support, 

Property  of,  exempt  from  taxation. 

Fund  of,  how  kept. 
Slavery,  prohibited, 

teech,  liberty  of,  secured, 
ite  Del  t,  provisions  relating  to,    . 
How  contracted. 
In  time  of  war,  etc., 
Credit  of  State  not  to  be  loaned,  etc., 
State  Prison,  Territorial  Prison  as  located 
to  remain  one  of  the  prisons  of  State, 
Stockholders,  liability  of,  in  banks. 

Same  in  other  corporations, 
Supreme  Court,  how  organized,  jurisdic- 
tion, powers  and  duties. 
To  appoint  Reporter  of  its  decisions, 
To  appoint  Clerk  in  case  of  vacancy, 
Judges  of,  elected  for  seven  years. 
Qualifications  of  Judges,  their  compen- 
sation not  to  be  diminished, 
Judges  of,  to  hold  no  other  office,  all  votes 
cast  for  void,  except  for  a  judicial  office. 
Taxation,  non-resident    property  holders 
not  to  be  taxed  higher  than  resident, 
For  school  purposes. 
To  be  equal  and  uniform,  property  taxed 

to  have  a  cash  valuation. 
For  State  purposes. 
What  shall  be  taxed. 
What  shall  be  exempt, 
Banks  and  bankers,  how  taxed. 
Powers  of  counties  and  townships. 
Of  persons  on  Indian  lands. 
Terms  of  Office,  of  Governor, 
Of  Auditor,  Secretary,  Treasurer  and  At- 
torney-General, 


Art.  Bee. 

5      5 
8      1 


9      3 
9    12 


9  10 

15  5 

9  13 

10  3 


6    11 


2 

3 

8 

8 

9 

1 

9 

2 

9 

3 

9 

3 

9 

4 

11 

5 

15 

2 

5 

3 

Terms  of  Office,  of  Lieutenant-Governor, 
Of  executive  office,  when  to  commence 

and  end,  . 

Of  Clerk  of  Supreme  Court, 
Of  Judge  of  Supreme  Court,     . 
Of  District  Judges, 
Of  Probate  Judges, 
Of  Justices  of  the  Peace, 
Of  other  Judges, 
Title,  State  not  to  interfere  with,  when  giv- 
en by  Congress, 
Territoi'ial  Officers,  continued  until  super- 
seded by  authority  of  State,  Schedule 
Towns  and  Townships,  organization  of. 
Election  of  officers  of. 
Powers  of  local  taxation. 
Moneys  of,  how  drawn  from  the  treasury. 
Treason,  definition  of,  proof  of. 

Disqualifications  of  persons  convicted  of. 
Treasurer  of  State,  how  chosen. 
Term  of  office,  salary  first  term. 
To  register  State  bonds, 
To  publish  annually  a  detailed  statement 
of  receipts  and  expenditures  of  public 
money,  .... 

University    of  MinTiesota,   provisions  re- 
lating to,  ... 
Property  of,  exempt  from  taxation, 
Veto,  of  bills  by  Governor, 
Of  joint  resolutions,  etc.. 
Votes,  in  passingjlaws,  entered  on  Journal, 

Same,  in  elections  by  Legislature, 
Vacancies,  in  State  and  other  offices,  to  be 
filled  by  appointment  by  Governor, 
In  offices  of  Judges,  same. 
Witness,  cannot  compel  person  to  be  against 
self  on  a  criminal  trial, 
Opinion  on  religion  not  to  disqualify  any 
person  from  being. 
Yeas  and  Nays.    See  Votes, 


Art.  Be*. 

5      8 


5  7 

6  2 
6  8 
6  4 

6  7 

6  8 

6  9 


9     11 


8 

4 

9 

3 

4 

11 

4 

12 

4 

13 

4 

80 

5 

4 

6 

10 

1 

7 

1 

17 

YD  08529 


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